Arsene Must Go

Online Ed: Enough’s enough



Arsene Must Go

Will he do the honourable thing?


Ok, so first the good news. Spurs took a hammering at home and are in the relegation zone. Arsenal have a potload of money to buy new players by the end of Wednesday. The Gunners will enjoy another Champions League campaign this season. The Arsenal Ladies won the Ladies title at Liverpool. And er… it could have been worse at Old Trafford. Oh yes, United could easily have had double figures.

Here’s a nugget of defensive wisdom I am going to hand to Arsene Wenger absolutely gratis. When you are trying to play an offside line, the players in midfield need to put pressure on the opponent with the ball. Sorry, I withdraw that. My opinion is worth nothing because I haven’t worked half a day in football. Arsene, as he demonstrated with his tactics at Old Trafford, knows best.

It was like watching a car crash. And perhaps, in a perverted kind of way, this needed to happen. The club has been going backwards under the current manager for a while now, the majority of supporters (surely) now want him replaced, and – given the complete balls up the club have made of the transfer window – the time has come to accept reality and try and move on. ‘Forward’ is the club motto for the 125th anniversary season. And indeed, it is time to move on. Conceding eight goals in a game is the stuff of the late 19th and early 20th century. Humiliation isn’t the word for it. Tellingly, Manchester United’s starting line up apparently had an average age of 23.1 years. Arsenal’s was five months older. So the excuse of it being a young team is no defence. The plain fact of the matter is that Alex Ferguson has shown – by a margin of six goals – that even when it comes to developing a young team, he is the master to Wenger’s apprentice. This was no case of men against boys.

Pride comes before a fall. Arsenal’s stadium has celebration of Wenger’s achievements all over it. I can see fans throwing the remains of their half time beer at images of him on the concourse walls at the next home game. He has re-shaped the club and helped it to move stadium, but – allowed to indulge his fantasy of building a team of players developed from youth level by himself (and challenged by no-one) – he has lost his way. People are now being charged caviar prices to watch sausage fare. The club will struggle to sell out the next few Premier League Saturday 3pm home matches even though they are not on television. And that message, if nothing else, should get through to the board of directors even if an 8-2 defeat fails to.

This game demonstrated clearly that neither the personnel nor the coaching are good enough for Arsenal to defend well enough to win trophies. There is no point in my berating individuals, although I will just say that if Johan Djouoru ever plays as a centre back for the club again, it can only be after he has experienced a period of defensive instruction under a coach worthy of the name.

I haven’t had the heart to watch any post-match interviews the manager might have given. He will probably have claimed that if Robin van Persie’s penalty had gone in it would have been a very different game. Not with the tactics and personnel on the field for Arsenal I’m afraid. The one heartening thing was to see some of the players having a go at each other about their perceived mistakes. At least it showed they gave some kind of a damn. Anger certainly isn’t allowed in the cosiness of the dressing room, where raised voices are frowned upon. But that is one thing that is missing from the London Colney crèche (copyright Myles Palmer). Players taking each other to task and getting things sorted out.

Most of the first team squad cannot speak highly enough of Arsene Wenger. And no wonder. Most of them would not be able to earn half as much as he is paying them elsewhere. And the ones that can are keen enough to jump ship, so the loyalty of quality players cannot be bought.

Paul Merson, summed it up. “It’s so bad it’s unbelievable.” And yet, it was almost expected. The most damning aspect this is that it was entirely predictable. In the build up to the game, the 6-1 defeat from February 2001 was recalled. I actually stopped caring towards the end. A bit of me wondered if ten goals for United might mean the dismissal of the manager. As I went and eat some dinner rather than watch the post match coverage I didn’t catch Alex Ferguson apparently stating (a text later informed me) that United eased up towards the end as they didn’t want to rub it in.

Pre-match, Paddy Power offered to refund all losing bets if Arsenal won. As Martin Tyler once said, “That sums it all up.” They were on a sure thing.

If Arsene Wenger has any honour, he would resign now. He’s been rewarded enough by the club over the years. If he really cares about Arsenal, he would not cost them any more money. The season might only be three league matches old, but we are already looking at 2012-13 now. This one’s a write-off. There is no coming back from this. If a 2-1 defeat to Birmingham City is enough to cause the team to collapse completely, there is no way back for many of these players after this. At least not without a change of manager. And to think Wenger put Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain into the middle of this. Give the kid a break.

And if the manager hasn’t got the decency to step down, the board should use some of the money swilling around in the coffers to pay him off. Change is desperately, desperately needed. The players that are at the club need organising and coaching. A tactician, a motivator, a disciplinarian is needed and if Arsenal can afford to pay the manager £6.5 million a year, they can get someone in who will do a decent job, even just for the course of this season, which is now about rebuilding confidence in the football team. The attacking side of Arsenal’s game has kept them in the top four in recent seasons, but even that now looks like it’s on the wane. Against a very young United back line, it was actually fill your boots time, but a side concentrated on going forward rather than worrying about what the opposition might do struggled to convert their opportunities.

And remember, this was all without the traditional boo boys of Denilson, Almunia, Eboue, Bendtner and Diaby. Two have been moved on, although we’ve only received any money for one of them. If you are under any illusion Denilson’s coming back, remember his squad number has been given to a teenager. So the Brazilian in the end was not ‘killed’ by an experience signing but another young prospect. I’d rather have had Xabi Alonso three summers back thanks very much. No-one’s foolish enough to take Almunia so he’s on the wage bill for the duration of his contract, and no-one is going to match Bendtner’s wages in a month of Sundays. Diaby isn’t even for sale, as the manager still hasn’t twigged that one yet, although if he were he surely wouldn’t pass any medical worthy of the name.

Paul Merson again – “A League 2 team would have made it more difficult for Manchester United than this,” or words to that effect. And I tend to agree. United were not even actually that good. The point is they didn’t have to be.

We’ve come to a point where it’s like watching a terminally ill patient pass time waiting for the inevitable end. No-one knows when it will come, just that it will. And there’s a horrible atmosphere, knowing recovery is impossible. I do not care about the transfer market, this season is over in that it’s time to start re-building now. Since the Carling Cup Final Arsenal have now won two league matches out of 14. Some fans have a fear of relegation, although I can see Arsenal recovering to make the top six, if only because they will win enough games against lesser teams. There is not a cat in hell’s chance of them finishing in the top four with the current manager now that Liverpool have sorted themselves out and invested to shake things up.

Arsenal have been standing still for a long time, things have gone stale and the team now in gradual decline. It’s not too late to arrest it, but the first thing that needs to happen is a complete change of manager and coaching staff. I hope the board have got the balls to do it, but I doubt it. Still, self-sustainability eh? Shame they don’t give out trophies for prudency.

Over 95% of Arsenal is owned by two billionaires.


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133
comments

  1. Rocco Rodamaal

    Jan 18, 2012, 15:58 #17194

    The richest Arsenal shareholder other than Stan Kroenke and Usmanov probably has £60m. Do u think its feasible for that person to spend £35m on a player..? Arsenal have been on a steady decline and only a few seem to take note of that.

  2. Kiwi Gooner

    Sep 01, 2011, 3:14 #12266

    We've got the best manager in the league and the best in the history of our club... and you want him to leave?!! Muppets. If you've only been supporting Arsenal since the Premier League started then I don't want to hear what you think. You know nothing.

  3. Disillusioned Tom

    Aug 31, 2011, 20:13 #12261

    There you go. He's done it again. It's moments to the end of the transfer window and he's quibbling over a few quid so we miss out on another signing Could have got Cahill for £10 million, but noooooooooo didnt want to pay that much so we miss out on quality. Now finally he wont pay a little more for Arteta so we have to hope to get someone on loan. Mnd you we still lots of quality in this team Squillaci, Arsharvin, Brentner, Rosicky and the list goes on No probs Arsene baby..we are sorted. You PR*T.

  4. Greed+Fear

    Aug 31, 2011, 16:05 #12240

    wenger squandered a great opportunity by not adding and tinkering with the squad in a good way last 1 or 2 seasons. he would not buy when we were close to the top and now he is forced to buy as we are close to the bottom. classic case of greed and fear. he wanted to be seen as the miracle man and started to believe his own legacy when in fact he is just another hollow frenchmen who buckles when you really get into him. he has destroyed his own good work and he hates british players and arsenal will regret not having enough british players in their ranks

  5. Disillusioned Tom

    Aug 30, 2011, 19:45 #12222

    Rob, instead of attacking the messenger, how about you contribute something of worth. Tell us, in your opinion, what compels you to disagree with Kev's article and with the majority on here who have agreed with him. Gareth, you have it totally right. It's not about this one game but the steady decline not only in results but in perfomances over the last few years. Arsenal are further away from winning the league, they are scoring less goals, conceding more and the teams like Liverpool and Tottenham are progressing and threatening our place in the CL. In short, we are going backwards at an alarming rate but the Manager can't see it.

  6. Rob

    Aug 30, 2011, 13:51 #12195

    Kevin if Arsenal finish in the top four this season will you step down and stop writing this drivel? deal?

  7. Gareth M

    Aug 30, 2011, 13:22 #12190

    This is not just about one bad result or about a mere 3 points being dropped. This is about a succession of poor performances and bad results, not just since the Carling Cup final, but in consecutive seasons that have seen Arsenal continuously collapse toward the end of campaigns by not learning from their mistakes. A lack of tactics and intelligence that lie at the feet of our manager - someone who has become a laughing stock for his embarrassing pitch side behaviour and contemptuous post-match waffle. Pleading for certain players to stay at the club (Fabregas, Nasri) when they are adamant on going elsewhere for stardom, trophies and higher wages is futile in modern football. Whether his hands are tied in the transfer market or he just doesn’t want to buy established players for his own obscure reasons is irrelevant, if he can’t organise a team of 11 players to play at the standard required (i.e. not conceding 8 goals within 70 minutes of humiliation), can’t discipline his players so we are not getting a player sent off in every match when we have so little cover in areas like mid-field, can’t play players in the right positions, can’t treat Arsenal fans with the intelligence and respect we deserve for having to pay the highest ticket prices in the country, then it is time for him and the board to consider the tenability of his position at the club. Arsenal’s current troubling situation is all of Wenger’s own making, being the culmination of years of regression under his managership. Manchester United have evolved, Chelsea and Manchester City have acquired the funds to compete with them, and all three have raced off into the distance. Arsenal have been left stuttering and stalling miles behind on the starting grid. Imagine how many goals Barcelona would have scored against that sorry shower of a shambles that walked out onto the Old Trafford turf on Sunday. This is a great way to celebrate 125 years, isn’t it?

  8. Disillusioned Tom

    Aug 30, 2011, 10:49 #12174

    Drrrring drrrrring. Carlo? Carlo Ancelotti? Are you free?

  9. Disillusioned TomA

    Aug 30, 2011, 10:26 #12172

    Wenger has been given a further £70 million to spend and the right to decide who he wants. Don't be blaming anyone but Wenger for failing to lure players to Arsenal. Even if he finally gets the likes of Cahill, its not enough. Players get hurt and tired and he will still have no replacements. Djouoru and Squilacci again? Pllllllllllease nooooooooooooo. We have holes everywhere and yet he just keeps buying strikers. Go figure

  10. rolypoly

    Aug 30, 2011, 9:47 #12170

    to no great surprise gooner ed makes no reference to gazidis at all.for example, it is widely reported that last january arsenal would have got phil jones had they offered an extra £2m. whether or not wenger thought price too high, why did gazidis not say to wenger " if you want him, dont worry abot the fee, thats my responsibility as chief executive not yours" and then do the deal. like gooner ed, everyone blames wenger for everything while gazidis gets away with keeping his mouth shut and not taking any responsibility. its gazidis that should be sacked first because exactly what is he doing to help wenger- appears to be nothing.

  11. What was the point in leaving Highbury?

    Aug 30, 2011, 9:40 #12169

    Can't be aresed to go into the game but what really makes me laugh is people saying who would we get in instead of Wenger. Surely the question should be how can it get any worse than our second highest defeat in our entire 125 year history. So that makes United not quite as good as Loughborough!!Remember Arsenal was formed in 1886 not 1997 and before Wenger had come in most of us, me included, have never heard of the man. George Graham was also "only" at Millwall. For what it's worth that I make Owen Coyle favorite or possibly Moyes. All players and managers have shelf life, except Fergie it would seem, and surely his time is now up.

  12. SingaporeGunner

    Aug 30, 2011, 5:04 #12166

    @joseph stanley: am I understanding u right that u're willing to let wenger stay on for the next year and get us relegated?

  13. dan

    Aug 29, 2011, 22:39 #12159

    hahahahah get rid of wengar and he will end up at a club that actually spend money.

  14. Bob

    Aug 29, 2011, 22:37 #12158

    Spot on. Wenger must go, there is no last-minute flurry of activity in the transfer market on 30 or 31 August that can disguise the mismanagement and neglect of the past 4 or 5 years.

  15. Mr B

    Aug 29, 2011, 20:38 #12150

    To all of those moaning at Kevin about what he has written, your anger would be better spent directed at the club! Football is a game with a lot of different opions. The first 10 years of Wenger's reign was very good. The last five years have been some of the worst with poor players purchased team morale at Zero and a an exodus of players no where near there expiry, Fabregas and Nasri being two prime examples. A lot of fans would like Wenger to go, but in truth who do you bring in? Ancelloti's name has been bandied around but he would need time and a shed load of cash to spend in January 2012 as that's when any new manager will be able to start the change of personel required. I see little point in sacking Wenger. He got us into this mess, he can get us out! The club however should be asking the following: 1. Why are so many players breaking down with injuries? 2. Who is coaching the defence? There is clearly no one with any idea on how the back four should move or cover each other, so why not bring in Arsenal men such as Keown, Adams or move Steve bould up to Defence Coach to show Djorou how to head a ball or bring a ball out of defence. 3. Why are we leaving it to three days before the transfer window closes to bring in the players that should have been bought at the end of May. Fergie was out with the Glazer's cheque book buying players we should have got when they were at Watford (Young) or centre backds we should have bought three years ago such as Cahill. 4. Bring back David Dein. He knew the club inside out and was always driving us forward. Gazidis appears to be in reverse and is taking us back to the mid-80's, Walsall, York anyone? 5. Why are we always trying to buy players on the cheap? In May we were told the 6.5% increase was to compete with other clubs. 8-2 losses is not competing! Until the club wake up and realise that great balance sheets do not win games at The theatre of wet dreams or ****e hart lane we will still be trying to get 4th place and claim that it is a great achievement at the end of another trophyless season!

  16. The Treasurer

    Aug 29, 2011, 19:38 #12146

    Asking for Wenger's head is premature. If anything, we should be demanding more of the board. The way things have been handled this summer have been a joke. At the end of last season, everyone could see that we needed to improve the squad. However when the summer arrived, what we saw was two of our best players leave, as well as Clichy, and no replacements brought in. Subsequently, this has left us with a club that is short on both numbers and quality. For Arsenal to let things get this bad is both the fault of the manager and the board because they obviously have no idea on how to negotiate on the transfer market. This is all a bit of a ramble, and i'm not even sure it makes sense, but i think the board and Wenger need to look at this and sort it out. There needs to be a shift of some sort, otherwise we are heading into oblivion!!!!

  17. Richard Ansell

    Aug 29, 2011, 18:33 #12144

    Words fail me. For God's and Arsenal's sake will someone get this lunatic manager out. As CD says how on earth are there still 'fans' (although I use the term loosely) that still back this idiot.

  18. Disillusioned Tom

    Aug 29, 2011, 18:29 #12143

    Isn't Arsene brilliant. Defensive frailty so he buys 4 strikers and I back who has played a handful of games in league football. What a genius. HAIL wenger ( sarcasm intended)

  19. PaulR

    Aug 29, 2011, 17:28 #12139

    Spot on Kev. Been a season ticket holder since 1984 and yesterday was one of the most embarrasing days I can recall. The removal of Wenger wouldn't be a kneejerk reaction to the result, just a signal that the club needs a change of direction to get success on the pitch. Under Wenger the team has been getting progressively weaker, the transfer dealings are incomprehensible, and the team spirit is non existent. Thanks for the memories Arsene, but these there's nothing you do or say that suggests it's anything other than 'Game Over.

  20. ellyacht

    Aug 29, 2011, 16:00 #12132

    Our fans on Sunday were unbelievable, they deserve a huge amount of credit and I have so much much respect for them, I'm a season ticket holder of 15 years plus and I'm not sure I would have been able to keep going like that. I cannot believe those idiots who run the club really know nothing. It is disgraceful enough that they have to offer something to the fans who travelled to Manchester (we should never, ever be that uncompetitive that this is necessary) but if they do, do it properly. Refund the tickets, pay travelling costs don't patronise us again by offering a ticket swap... what the f..k. I am so sick of this. To recompense the fans for this one match would probably be less than a week's wages of one of the first team squad. Kevin, great article by the way. Personally I blame the board, far too much indulgence for AW. It is high time the CEO earned his money but unfortunately, he is a marketing guy and is out of his league

  21. Peter

    Aug 29, 2011, 14:04 #12120

    I agree that something needs to change but sacking wenger would not solve anything! The Yank came in and lived up to his name Silent Stan! So silent he has not helped by telling wenger he must spend on top quality! We missed out on Mata to Chelsea and this must stop NOW! Gazides out and Dein in! Steve Bould to step up as first team defensive coach and get in better scouts. The structure in place is so wrong Wenger should have some of this blame but i dont believe itg's all his doing! Who kicked out Dein> Hill Wood!" That idiot needs to step down! remember his outburst on Ashley Cole? That is why he left!

  22. Vip

    Aug 29, 2011, 14:00 #12119

    Kev, a good article and totally understand where you're coming from. However there is definately something more than meets the eye when it comes to matters concerning OUR club. It seems odd that someone of Wenger's intelligence and knowledge has suddenly (over the last 3-4 years) has 'lost the plot'. I think in good time something will be revealed about what's been going on 'upstairs'. Nevertheless it is a sad state of affairs and maybe there could be some kind of fans protest to make the Board reveal their true intentions and make things a bit more transparent...we may then all know where the fault really lies for the shambles we are in.

  23. matt powell

    Aug 29, 2011, 11:58 #12097

    'Forward, the Light Brigade!' Was there arshavin dismay'd? Not tho' the players knew Some one had blunder'd: probably traore, Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to djourou and die: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred who sang all the way thru' the second half

  24. Stuart

    Aug 29, 2011, 11:54 #12096

    If Wenger is indeed sacked it could prove to be the epochal moment when English football definitively lost all contact with reality.

  25. lee armitt

    Aug 29, 2011, 11:52 #12095

    Your piece was going so well then you had to quote that prize prat Paul merson now your argument goes out the window

  26. Alex

    Aug 29, 2011, 11:43 #12094

    The writing was on the wall so to say. This summer has been bordering to criminal negligence. It seems to me that whole top echelon of our club is hopelessly incompetent. Over the years it has been more and more evident that not only do we lack leaders on the pitch, but we lack leaders in the top as well. Whenever that happens the "soldier" i.e the players is gonna lack direction and a uniformed strategy is gonna suffer because no one is willing to take them helm. Its the board, wenger and everyone involved upstairs that have been found wanting. Something has to change now! Start with the manager...

  27. Roby

    Aug 29, 2011, 11:30 #12091

    Feel bad for arsenal fans ..but I'm sure gooner won't reach top four for the next two years.. The world of PL has changed a lot .. Money talks.. Certain top 4 .. 1. Manutd for they have a great leader in their manager and they're not afraid to invest their money (two things that lacks in arsenal) 2 and 3. Man city and chelsea for their abundance poundsterling .. 4. Liverpool for the willingnes of their owner to invest ..today PL is becoming very competitive .. I doubt arsenal in wenger regime have gut to spend ..

  28. Disallusioned Tom

    Aug 29, 2011, 11:25 #12089

    Can anyone name 5 quality and dedicated centre halves that Wenger has bought in his 15 yrs at the helm. Lets make it easier ...recall just 3. Dont be funny and nominate Stepanovs, this isn't time for games. PS if you are thinking Toure, he was bought as a midfielder who had to be shuffled back because...yes, thats right, there was no-one else.

  29. Thabo

    Aug 29, 2011, 11:09 #12086

    He should go. Not because of the result, - as bitter as that was - but because of the fundamental malaise at the club that the result is but a symptom of. The 3 reasons why he should go are: 1. Six seasons without a trophy. Losing to Barcelona in the CL final is acceptable, losing the League Cup final to Birmingham isn't. Also, that result knocked the stuffing out of the team and sent them on a horrible run of form that the manager clearly can't arrest. 2. Failure to rebuild after the 'Invincibles' breakup. Sir Alex has broken up championship winning sides repeatedly over the years. Beckham left and Ronaldo was there. Tevez left and they found a Little Pea hiding under a rock in the Mexican desert. 3. The head in the sand. Fabregas made it clear a season ago that he wanted to go back home. Nasri's head was turned at the beginning of the transfer period. Wenger spent the whole summer fighting two lost causes when he could have been finding and bedding down suitable replacements.

  30. Merse69

    Aug 29, 2011, 11:09 #12085

    Terrible pre-season, club in decline and a nightmare result on Sunday, but that's enough about Spurs..... the Arsenal were caught in a perfect storm of injuries, suspensions, defections and fantastic finishing from Utd. By my reckoning, only four of Wenger's first eleven started (Szczesny, Walcott, Ramsey, van Persie). Note no first choice outfield defenders and no Song or Frimpong in midfield to protect the defence... this said, you need a great squad these days and we clearly don't have that.

  31. West Stand Rob

    Aug 29, 2011, 10:52 #12080

    Spot on as usual Kevin. Dedicated fans have identified the problems for years, even pundits and the papers have woken up now. Perhaps Wengers eyes were taken off the ball by his outside of work activities (remember the papers a year or so ago), or maybe his ego and total power at the club have deluded him. Whatever the reason, this man on 6.5 million pa is making us a laughing stock not just with the disorganised "plan A only" shambles on the pitch but his arrogance in interviews and his misleading comments about transfers (before season tickets are due. Then there is his contempt for the fans. Is he on a bonus for money he brings in from transfers? A defensive coaching team is more important now than hoping a new player at the back will sort things out alone, he would have to play as well as coach everyone else. Wenger ruins good younger defenders eg Toure, Clichy, Djourou. I suspect the closest some of those who have criticised you Kevin get to actually paying to watch that club is buying another beer at the pub when the games on.

  32. S1K

    Aug 29, 2011, 10:52 #12079

    Look at the reality, Wenger has messed up since Dein left, why, because the new board are a bunch of plonkers (gazidis and kroenke) bit like what happened to Liverpool previously What is Wenger supposed to do, say, my director is an asshole? You point your fingers at him because he is in the media, but the truth is, if you blame him and want Wenger out, who is really the dumb ass, you or him? Do you think players like Overmars, Bergkamp, Henry, Pires, Vieira were on small wages in their day? No, the board backed their manager. Gazidis and kroenke are in it purely for the money the don't give a F*** about Arsenal or Arsene or the fans, thats why Arsenal are on a decline, wake up dick head!

  33. Stevesam

    Aug 29, 2011, 10:35 #12073

    I have suported The Arsenal for over 50 years home and away and I have never been so embarrassed or disgusted as now. You only have to look at our starting back four and the players on the bench to see how far we have come with AW.You could blame the Board, but to be fair to them they have given the Manager every opportunity to influence the 'Football' strategy of the club. No other Manager in the world is given this blind faith. Their faith has backfired.I believe AW has to the end of December to prove the majority of us wrong, I believe he will jump before he is pushed.He is an intelligent man ? There is life after Wenger as there was life after Chapman, Mee and Graham.

  34. Adrian Wagenaar

    Aug 29, 2011, 10:34 #12072

    I blame the board for the poor relationship they have with the fans, the false messages and the "Wenger has the money but won't spend it" spin that they have cultivated. Wenger's loyalty to the board I think prevents many questions from being answered and so we may never know the real truth. However you cannot blame the board for the total lack of any blame against a vastly superior side we should have had some game plan. The Ed's point about the offside line we were trying to hold (more like a zig zag than a straight line)was key to our thrashing - without any closing down the Man U player on the ball just fed the numerous runners from deep positions giving them a clear run on goal but as Kev said what do we know we are just supporters. It has been coming and yes we had several players missing but footballing basics IMO were completely ignored. We need players and we must bit the bullet and buy as many experienced players as possible in TWO DAYS! For the future the structure and coaching needs changing and I would insist on a defensive coach to be appointed during the interlull. It is not a criticism of Szs but I would try to sign an experienced keeper to help him through the nightmare he has just experienced where he was used for target practice. This should be AW last season in charge of the first team but he could and should be involved with player development and play a DD type roll between board and management.

  35. HowardL

    Aug 29, 2011, 10:21 #12068

    We have an injury-prone, ill-disciplined 'team' (I use the word loosely) and the manager has failed to see that and organise quality back up. Our top players hate losing and leave the club and we now have a self-fulfilling prophecy. No one in any job should survive failure on yesterday's scale - regardless of their past record. It is time for Arsenal Football Club to sack Arsene Wenger and move on. Can I think of anyone to replace him? Yes lots, and they are all named in earlier posts. Well done to the true supporters yesterday for carrying on singing although they could see Armageddon approaching.

  36. stevus

    Aug 29, 2011, 10:18 #12067

    Great editorial. Anyone who still wants incompetent egotist Wenger to remain in post is an "Arsene" fan. Anyone who doesn't, however, is an Arsenal fan, whose memory encompasses Frank McLintock, Charlie George, Liam Brady, David Rocastle, Alan Smith, Seaman - Dixon - Winterburn - Tony Adams - Bould - Keown and evokes the spirit of Herbert Chapman, Ted Drake, Cliff Bastin, Jack Kelsey, George Eastham. Even Bergkamp...signed in 1995 just a few months after Chris Kiwomya!!! Yes we will face some hard times, mainly because there is no dynasty to speak of - just a house of cards. Succession planning is piss poor and whoever inherits this footballing mess has one hell of a job on their hands - yet it is THAT man who deserves such time, not the bungling incumbent. Still, at least we now have Dick's Sporting Goods (Holloway Version) Park in which to watch this dross. Support the team but for god's sake don't mistake blind faith in a past-it manager as being the same thing.

  37. Sam

    Aug 29, 2011, 10:13 #12066

    This article is of really poor quality and it saddens me to read it. Yes Arsenal are not performing right now, but to say that Wenger must leave is COMPLETELY WRONG. As SAF said, WHO WILL REPLACE HIM? The man is a quality manager and we will bounce back from this. You fans are fickle people, everyone was so happy when we qualified on Wed, and now everyone wants the manager to go !!! Wenger will stay and we will bounce back.

  38. Deano

    Aug 29, 2011, 9:56 #12062

    Dave (20:06 28 Aug) has got it right. Kroenke is turning into our version of Hicks and Gillett - appearing only to be interested in the club for its financial performance and seemingly lacking the knowledge and guts to sort out the chaos of the Club's approach to buying, selling and retaining players. Arsenal's demise can be linked back to Dein's departure. The Dein/Wenger partnership was unstoppable, but with the current ownership and Board that is unlikely to re-occur. Before condemning Wenger, we need to know how much actual freedom to operate he has had, and if it turns out he's had total freedom, then he should go. But I suspect that its not that straightforward. Ultimately its Kroenke and Gazadis' problem to sort. They should realise that their (or Wenger's?) business model of using young players/low salaries combined with selling top players at their prime, in return for 4th place and regular CL football is in tatters. Until that changes, whoever the manger is will be irrelevant. Spending the money, serious money (including salaries - which is where I suspect the real problem lies) on the likes of Cahill, Kaka and Sneijder would do the trick.

  39. Robert Brand

    Aug 29, 2011, 9:43 #12059

    A couple of years back, I believed in the prudence strategy because Chelsea + Man City were spending big bucks so we needed to compete a different way. But the Carling Cup defeat and subsequent collapse shows that this squad is rotten - no guts, no winning spirit. So given that position to then dismantle the squad over the summer without significant new recruits is verging on criminal. And this makes no sense to the overall strategy - we will make less money from sponsorship, Emirates ticket sales etc because who wants to back a second rate team when paying some of the highest prices in world football. It's a joke. Wenger has been amazing and no one else could have achieved what he has done - but it is now game over. For me it was game over as soon as he said coming second was good enough. I have sold on most of my season ticket for this year and will sell on the whole thing next year (if i can find a buyer). At the end of the day these are intelligent people (The Board and Wenger), so the level of incompetence is breathtaking - WENGER MUST GO NOW! Anyway, let's hope we can find a decent replacement, but this season is going to be a mess! cheers Rob

  40. CD

    Aug 29, 2011, 9:33 #12057

    I am in total shock, bewildered and angry about yesterday. Not about the result or the inept tactics by a clueless well past his sell by date manager, as that is 100% what I expected. No I am shocked that even now pro Wenger supporters can come on this forum and STILL defend Wenger. Just what the f**k will it take for you guys to wake up from your zombie worshipping coma to realize Wenger needs to be sacked? If yesterday's humiliation was not the icing on the cake of our meltdown which started against Birmingham in the carling cup final back in spring then I simply don't know what else will make you lot smell the coffee. Oh yes I know what might, our latest recruit for circa £3 million from you guessed it the French League who no doubt will be "super super quality", and he is now the 19th player out of 20 in a row whom we have signed with no pl experience!!! For the record the one who did have pl experience Sylvestre!!!!

  41. Omeil in ja

    Aug 29, 2011, 9:13 #12053

    nobody expected 8-2 but to boot arsene now who will u replace him with. the money u would spend trying to find a new manager would be better spent getting quality players. 8-2 is a reflection of the quality players on the pitch

  42. Rich

    Aug 29, 2011, 9:12 #12052

    Still no one talks about lack of tactics and poor coaching which i suppose is not down to manager..

  43. Petrovic

    Aug 29, 2011, 8:34 #12047

    Now even Don Howe would be a Godsend!

  44. Brian Dawes

    Aug 29, 2011, 8:24 #12045

    If Wenger were to get the elbow does anyone really believe that Gazidis and Kroenke are capable of choosing a suitable replacement?

  45. Sven

    Aug 29, 2011, 7:12 #12036

    @ Joseph Stanley You must be joking (or just be plain ignorant). What do you expect, that we praise him for his incompetence, or maybe have another statue raised in his honour? If we dont criticize wenger, then we have to criticize the players. The problem with this solution is that the players are victims of Wenger's stupidity and lack of common sense. ARSENE MUST GO!!!! NOW!!!!

  46. opalo

    Aug 29, 2011, 6:21 #12033

    lets see how much profit the board makes once we are relegated since spending on 3 key defenders 1 central midfielder and two top strikers is rocket science. there is something going on at arsenal and arsene isn't telling................... next game we should all wear black in protest.

  47. West

    Aug 29, 2011, 5:33 #12032

    Knee jerk reaction and defeatest attitude. It is not impossible to turn things around. Yhe season has just begun. Nobody actually knows the truth behind Arsenals financial situation. All clubs have players on high salaries (Barrowmorte at WHU 70k p wk - years ago).

  48. Sid Knee

    Aug 29, 2011, 5:00 #12031

    To sack Wenger three days beforee the transfer window closes is plain stupid. If that was the way to go it should have been done at the end of last season. What's happened with Cesc and Nasri has happened, but is and was out of our control. City can buy who they like. Perspective is needed. Spurs and Arsenal have been de-stablised by Billionaire clubs for Nasri and Modric, and it shows. there is fault with the system at present, and the EPL is turning in to another La Liga or SPL with only a couple of teams that can compete (running at huge loses). This was a bare bones team we all know the result was coming - it's just hard excepting it.

  49. John Smith

    Aug 29, 2011, 3:41 #12029

    Wenger's still the best man for the job and just needs one or two players etc etc as tools like John Cross repeat ad nauseum.

  50. eamonn

    Aug 29, 2011, 3:25 #12028

    This article is a disgrace for anyone to have wrote it let alone from someone who claims to be an arsenal fan. I urge the writer to come up with a solution. The reason the Arsenal fans are not happy today is down to one man and one man only, that is Arsene Wenger. This is due to expectations he has set at Arsenal where the fans think its a compulsary right to be in the top four everywere.

  51. Johnno

    Aug 29, 2011, 2:10 #12023

    Wenger got us into this mess and its his job to get us out of it

  52. DW Thomas

    Aug 29, 2011, 1:25 #12020

    When I submitted an earlier post, someone accused me of being a Nouveau plastic fan who knows little to nothing. Am I plastic when gutted at this result yet still supportive of the team! My earlier post about giving Wenger a little more time to right the ship now seems naive and too trusting. He won the Udinese game only to get just 1 point in the first 9 in the league. Something smells really bad at the club now. The only way he can even attempt to make things right is to sign at least 4 quality players. Hazard, M'Vila, Cahill, Baines and probably Jagielka is needed too. That's what everyone sees. Not just the pundits. If he does that and we turn things around, then we can all be patient again. And I am one who is neither an AKB nor AMG. I think most of us fans are level headed and informed. Some more than others. We all want the best and see what is necessary, with some differences of opinions. Wenger's statements this season are comical at best, as he should just be honest, and admit things are bad but he will do everything to correct it. But, isn't that what Gadzidis basically said at the AST meeting? Busy? Yeah, what a laugh. I hate to say it, but, Kevin, sadly, may be right. Maybe we're just afraid of change. Isn't that ironic, it seems to be Arsene's problem, too. Spend the money!

  53. Objective

    Aug 29, 2011, 1:20 #12019

    Kevin, I've been one of your most severe critics. It's hard to refute the logic of your argument today. All the best.

  54. Ashley

    Aug 29, 2011, 1:19 #12018

    In the build up to this game I was expecting a loss, perhaps optimistically a narrow one, but nothing like the disgraceful humiliation that occured and Arsenal's heaviest defeat for over a century. The team was a complete shambles, there was no organisation or structure, particularly in defence where the lack of pressure on the ball, giving Man Utd's players so much space, was unbelievable. The defending was terrible, especially for the ridiculous Nani goal when the defence left so much space in the penalty area and didn't even seem aware he was there. There was a lack of passion, heart and desire from most of the players, some not even bothering to jump in the wall for one of the freekicks that went in, players not tracking back when they lost the ball. Most didn't even look like they cared. For me, every Arsenal supporter who went to the game deserves a refund after that truly pathetic, shameful, joke of a performance.

  55. Parklife74

    Aug 29, 2011, 0:43 #12017

    I decided at the end of last season to give Wenger the benefit of the doubt I have over his management. This was totally embarrassing but I will stick with the above even though I find it hard to see a way back from this.

  56. Rich

    Aug 28, 2011, 23:49 #12016

    It never ceases to amaze me when the fans who stick up for Wenger and slate anyone who call for him to go never actually discuss how awful our tactics are game after game. All they seem to care about is banging on about how he has built us a new stadium and how low our net transfer spend is compared to other teams. All these things are very commendable but i would rather concentrate on the football and how in four games against Barca he did not change the tactics once, and how poor we are defensively, and how easy it would be to put this right by actually bothering to coach the defence better. It is clear that Wenger is failing on all on field matters, many just choose to ignore this and say no one could do it better. In which case we are buggered cos if no one has noticed we have won only two league games since February and if that continues we will be way down the league and dare i say it fighting relegation.

  57. johnnyh

    Aug 28, 2011, 23:46 #12014

    as merse said,"a league two side would have made it more difficult for united",in the same way a league two side would not have thrown away a 4 goal lead at newcastle last season. the club is an absolute shambles and the lack of both fighting spirit and defensive cohesion is truly shocking for a premier league side and the buck stops at wengers door. he looks tired and out of his depth trying to challenge big spending rivals. thanks for everything arsene but a new man with new ideas is required.

  58. Zbizz

    Aug 28, 2011, 23:23 #12012

    We were only really missing Gervinho, Wilshere, Song, Sagna, Frimpong and Vermaelen. OK, six players but surely that should leave a large number of squad players. This is the squad that Wenger built. Regardless of being a weakened team, and I used to this our current problems were the consequence of a strict wage structure imposed on Wenger by the board, the fact that the manager and the coaching staff cannot teach the squad how to defend and how to be organised show a huge about of negligence. If I'd have been that negligent at my job I'd be sacked in the morning. I've seen lesser teams go there and do better with a little organisation an getting the simple things right. That's right djourou, just clear your lines, don't fall on the floor with the opposition striker attacking the ball. I worry that by doing this Arsene is breaking our young players rather than making them. Just wanted to also mention that the away fans were immense.

  59. Tiger Keown

    Aug 28, 2011, 23:20 #12011

    Why are a large proportion of Arsenal fans remaining loyal to a manager and board that are destroying the club. Do they have no pride. The sort of pride enables teams from lower divisions to draw cup games at Old Trafford why Arsenal field imbeciles where there were once warriors. Being annoyed that we didn't win anything is long gone, so depleted is this once great club that we will be grateful just to score a bloody goal once or twice. Why do so many fans mix up Arsene and Arsenal? Arsenal is our club, not his. The goodwill he was due is long gone. Wake up you bloody fools and speak up to save your club from further humiliation. That 8-2 is on the record for ever. It's an unforgivable disgrace.

  60. nickc

    Aug 28, 2011, 23:03 #12009

    Today was inevitable. Our dear arsenal has been washed away by our incompetent greedy board, wasted transfer windows and stubborn manager. Today was a disgrace on so many levels. The most obvious being that we have been short of defenders, squad depth, proper coaching and leadership for so so long. For years we have been calling for a few decent players. Especially as we all knew Cesc, Nasri were on the way out. Let alone the crap players on massive wages that have been allowed to fester at the club. We are not asking for mega millions but just a few decent experienced players. The CEO, manager and board are incompetent to allow us to start the season with this squad and force those poor kids to take a beating at OT today. I don't blame the kids, i blame the board and coaching staff. Today was preventable but time and time again they have chosen to not to address the obvious issues. Anyone who still thinks we will win anything with Wenger is in cloud cuckoo land. We need to change and quickly. Don't be scared on who will replace Wenger. Be scared of what will happen if we don't. And to think i pay over 1350 pounds for that season ticket. What mugs we are. A sad sad for true gooners. We will always love them but unfortunately the powers that be that run the club just do not care.

  61. Big Dave

    Aug 28, 2011, 22:57 #12008

    Big words but what's the Gooner going to do....NOTHING

  62. mikey

    Aug 28, 2011, 22:49 #12007

    very sad but you can understand why Nasri and Clichy left...excellent both of them played but lets be honest here. We all seem to blame Wenger but like Fergie,Mancini,AVB and KK none of them do the transfers they are sorted out by the money men. examples are players sold even though the manager says they wont be. Xabi Alonso was available before his £35 mil move to Real Madrid we could have had him for £16 milbut the money men would offer no more than £12. Mata we could have had him for £16 mil...Kronke and Usimov are only interested in the value of their shares. shameful that it comes down to the bottom line and top four is acceptable as it generates profits if not trophies.

  63. onlyaway

    Aug 28, 2011, 22:35 #12006

    @henryjohn to you sir and to others who have the same view, how much time would you give our manager? this season? or 'x' numbers of years? personaly i want to see balance. youth/experience, grit/flair etc. the balance of the side is just not there. balance of setting up the side with the players available. for me walcott is a striker in the mould of vasell, wiltord, defoe and owen. but he needs a run so we can find out where he rates. he is no midfielder. bentdner out wide is another played out of position. we can also think of others in the current and previous sides. if they do a job for the side for a few weeks fine. but then in the summer these issues need to be addressed. we have played quite narrow for a number of years now. where their are holes in the side just strengthen it. not the Leeds/Portsmouth way but be sensible about it. balance it with 3/4 youngsters at a time so they have some help as they improve or not. the man is not perfect, who is? i do not want the manager to make an apology to say he got things wrong. i just want him to see the errors made and put balance back into the side. to move forward player positions and tactics will have to be looked at. so we can start to look like a side again with a plan, when we have/don't have the ball. if not questions have to be asked of the board and manager.

  64. muzzlejuice

    Aug 28, 2011, 22:30 #12004

    yes this result is one of the most painful but i beleive that at this moment the club is at rock bottom and the only way is up,not a major excuse for the result but we were without 6/7 first team players for this game without even a bench to call on when needed,at least now there really should not be any faffing about 1 -2 million pounds on any transfers that need doing,we are in trouble and need to buy the quality players needed to help us out/normally i despise the international breaks but this one permiting we do not pick up any further injuries has come at a vital time for us.

  65. Clive the Gooner

    Aug 28, 2011, 22:14 #12002

    Completely agree with everything said. What an absolute shambles this is turning into. None of the defensive problems have been sorted and todays result is so embarrassing Wenger must go.

  66. WelshGooner

    Aug 28, 2011, 22:10 #12001

    Ironic that it's my hometown club Swansea who could put the final nail in Wenger's coffin. We shouldn't be too surprised at what has happened today...we've all seen it coming and the chickens are now well and truly coming home to roost. What do we expect though at a club where the manager has a say in choosing his own boss. My dad and I were laughing towards the end today at the absurdity of it all. And of course we continue to get the tired old mantra of who could we get to replace him?? Erm Gus Hiddink, Louis Van Gaal, Frank Rikaard, David Moyes, Owen Coyle sheesh even Brendan Rodgers wouldn't let a side perform like this today.The body language of Walcott and Van Persie shows clearly that he has lost the dressing room. There is no going back from this under the current regime!

  67. TFG

    Aug 28, 2011, 22:00 #12000

    Plastic fan? This is not a question of support - those there today sung their hearts out, in the face of overwhelming adversity. This is a question of realism. In 2005, months after we won our last trophy, Barnet travelled to Old Trafford for a League Cup game. The visitors had their keeper dismissed after two minutes... and lost 4 - 1. By all means, criticise all you like, but I sincerely believe that your anger is misdirected. This patched up side represents a squad which Wenger reckons is the best he has worked with. He has effectively confirmed that conviction by not signing players which pundits, players and fans alike have suggested we need. Cesc said last season that at any other club, Arsene Wenger would have been sacked by now - then he voted with his feet. Merse has said that a League Two outfit would have given United a better game: and he is Arsenal through and through. On balance, I do not think that your sentiments, devoid of any factual support, stand up to scrutiny. A cursory view of the Premier League table may well confirm the worst...

  68. wendy

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:59 #11999

    have supported for over 40 years never been so ashamed

  69. Miles Gooner

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:57 #11998

    Kevin, you must be the happiest man around tonight, with Arsene and Arsenal on the brink. There's no point in sacking him now - even ignoring the fact it's only been 3 games. Anyone coming in would not have time to make the purchases they want before the window closes and this team is not good enough to finish in the top 4 whoever manages it. So either we keep Arsene in charge and he buys the players we need and it works, or he doesn't buy the players we need and he goes mid-season. This will give the next guy time to work out what players he needs for the season after.

  70. Paul Heaton

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:57 #11997

    Great post Ed. And why is he a 'plastic fan' henryjohn ? Should we all sit quietly and put up with this sh*t for another 5 or 6 years ? Yes we had injuries (so did United) and yes, we had a young team (so did United) but our defending was pathetic. It's obvious that we don't bother practising that sort of thing in training. Crawley went to O.T.last year and only lost 1-0 because they were organised. Wenger isn't interested in boring stuff like defending and organisation. He just wants young and cheap injury prone midgets playing tippy tappy football. Give Ancellotti a call and get him to sort us out.

  71. Guv

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:54 #11996

    Bang on as ever Kev, really the blame is with the board as well. Allowing a arrogant, stubborn out of touch man use the club as his personal plaything for too long now, and refusing to take heed of the warning signs that have been there, really since we left Highbury. I agree it is time for a change, but there is no obvious replacement. In any case what top manager would give us the time of day at the moment? He would be inheriting a pile of dead wood, and having to deal with a gutless board only interested in making a profit. Stale you mention? To be honest Wenger and his chums upstairs are stinking the place out. Nothing will change unless fans vote with their feet , and I don't think generally their will be that sort of outcry. We have an international break now, given what has gone on this summer and the start of the season at any other so called big-club the pressure would be intense, media frenzy about the manage's future - Wenger? He will be fine, swanning off to watch the French national time safe in the knowledge, that he, (and the board believe it) -still knows best. Laughable...maybe one day soon, Arsene F.C will go back to his rightful name -don't hold your breath though..

  72. McQ72

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:54 #11995

    Let's have a look at the league table. 1. USA savings and loan bank scandal 'as a football club' utd. 2. The loose change of a despotic oil state junta. 3. A old going concern under new management. 4. The funnelled robbed natural assets of Russia. It is no longer sport in any sense. We now live in a money hall of mirrors.

  73. J A Jaramillo

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:47 #11993

    Completely agree Kevin. You got stick for showing some reluctance to go as overboard as some fans did after Wednesday's success against Udinese and I for one was with you all the way. This squad has become so poor in terms of back-up that it is embarassing. Age is not an issue - it is up to Wenger to ensure that we have sufficient cover for problem positions such that poor Jenkinson isn't thrown into the lions pit as he was today. I have NEVER, not even after the Carling Cup debacle, been embarrassed to be a Gooner. Well today I am ashamed. Ashamed that Wenger refuses to learn his lessons, ashamed that promising youngsters are having their confidence destroyed by maulings like this and ashamed that our greatest rivals feel they have to ease up on us to avoid doing a f***ing Ipswich on us. Time for regime change. The Arsenal Spring anyone?

  74. GoonerGoal!

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:44 #11992

    Wenger leaving would seem right and proper given the state of the squad, except for the small matter of the people who have the job of selecting a new manager. Who on the board is qualified to make that decision? Hands up board members if you ever selected an Arsenal FC manager before! Just as I thought, not a single hand in the air. Another reason to invite David Dein back to steady the ship.

  75. Skooner

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:42 #11991

    The truth is the writing has been on the wall for a good few years now, the board are equally to blame but they are going no where so it is Wenger that should go. His complete disregard for defence is incredible. It's one thing to lose to United away with a patched up side but to ship eight goals is an absolute disgrace and anyone defending him is out of their mind. It's going to get ugly this season, there are still plenty that back Wenger but those of us who live in the real world will become more and more vocal and ultimately the negative impact on the club will force the hand of the board to act. It simply isn't in their interest to do otherwise. Arguments about who should replace him are irrelevant, its clearly broke so they need to try and fix it. It's such a sad way for it to end but end it must. Brian Clough was the greatest manager Notts Forest ever had but he is a fine example that even the best can go on too long. Thanks for the memories Arsene but it's time to go.

  76. Noz

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:38 #11990

    A depressingly accurate description of the state of affairs at Arsenal. However, even if Wenger did tender his resignation it would be refused because he makes the rich richer. Wenger, you are maling a mockery of my club, please leave.

  77. sanegoonerfan

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:33 #11988

    err.. you done with your rant, fanboy? good! now go read about the game's away fans and hopefully you'll learn a bit about how to be a fan.

  78. Herts Gooner

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:30 #11987

    Wenger is a busted flush, I wouldn't bet a tenner on Arsenal qaulifying for the Europa league this year, Henry knew it, Fabregas knew it, Nasri knew it, Van Persie knows it,

  79. au revoir wenger

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:29 #11986

    He sat there and did nothing. if the roof is leaking fix the roof.wenger sits there and hopes it wont rain,well today it pissed down

  80. MattCraig

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:29 #11985

    In the past it was said that you always support your club through thick and thin. But in the past, the players were not paid hollywood wages, and we were able to stand at grounds with our friends. We were never given a say in the new stadium: for starters, they built the ends behind the goals too far back from the pitch. Then the stewards started ejecting fans for standing (even though no such ban is ever enforced on away fans). So, given that the players earn so much, I cannot stand when I want, plus I am being charged more than any other fan in the world to watch Arsenal, I therefore demand success. To criticize does not make me a spurs fan. The enjoyment of football has gone. It doesn't even matter who we sign, because Arsene doesn't know how to coach the team to defend properly. Keeping Rice for another year was a joke. Wenger out. I am sick to death of that arrogant, selfish man making the same mistakes season after season. We haven't been defending properly since 2005. The collapses have become endemic. As a business, Arsenal went almost 2 years without a CEO, yet Wenger says we can "be proud" of how the club is run!!! We have the highest prices in world football, and they call it a "self-sustainable" model!! We are owned by two of the richest men in the world, have the UAE's national airline as our sponsor, and generate revenues of 3 million quid PER GAME! Plus we've had 14 years of CL cash, and 40 million two years ago for Adeybarndoor and Toure. Why have nothing been invested in players??!

  81. BT62 Gooner

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:28 #11984

    Spot on we've been heading toward this kind of result for some time now.Our squad is and has been for a few seasons now in decline.It has lost any experienced players it had season after season and replaced with future potential,football is all about results today not in four or five years time.We need an injection of fresh blood on pitch and through out the staff,coaches right to the top.

  82. Nick Bowler

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:28 #11983

    Henry John did you watch that abject embarrasment? We all support that does not mean we should have to put up with this. That loss was heartbreaking to watch. I don't care how many players were out there is no excuse for 8-2. The only plastic fans are those who continue to defend AW after failure after failure. 2 wins in 14 games. How many more does it take?

  83. pauly h

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:24 #11982

    firstly i hope we dont spend a single pennny in the next 4 days ,i would rather give all the money to our next manager in june , secondly pls dont blame the players , they are totally out of their depth at this level and should not have been playing today , lastly we need to oust kroenke asap, he needs to be hit in the pocket where it hurts , i urge supporters not to go to the next 3 games , it maybe harsh but the penny may finally drop

  84. aaronramseysdad

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:21 #11981

    henryjohn: open your sad little eyes! it was a tactical mess. the players can only play to their potential, but the manager and coaching staff are responsible for ensuring there is some sembelance of structure on the field. today it was like watching a playground kickabout, everyone playing for themself, and not being too bothered about tha ball if was nowhere near. my overiding memory is of djourou, hands behind back, feet planted squarely, looking back over his shoulder as the ball flew into the net- not just once but again, and again and again. chickens have come home to roost after a summer of pennypinching, recruiting untried youngsters ( nothing new there then ) and losing the two players he said we should never lose if we considered ourselves a big club. 'nuff said?

  85. Ronster

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:20 #11980

    Felt sorry for Aaron Ramsey....he looked like someone who had lost a winning lottery ticket.

  86. duff

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:18 #11979

    well said kw - its a shame that people like henryjohn seem eager to finger-point and deflect attention away from wenger at all costs and at nonsense such as a ' plastic ' fans . i and many of my season-ticket holder mates gave up on wenger 3 yrs ago. stubborn, arrogant , and only propped up by myopic haed-in sand fans such as henryjohn ....youre actually the kinda fan we dont need right now - YOU are standing for alot less than than this great club deserves...

  87. JCL

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:16 #11978

    Well Said Kevin. Wenger must go tomorrow morning. And take Gazidis with him. And you're certainly not a plastic fan, but a deeply committed supporter through thick and thin for many years (as I have been since 1968.)

  88. Sureli

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:15 #11977

    Who will replace him? Redknapp? Moyse? Or Hughes? Two billioners but the poorer has full control. If it was Usmanov, he would have backed wenger and kept Nasri, Fab, and got more players in. Blame the board not Wenger. In Arsene We Trust!

  89. Chris

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:08 #11975

    True arsenal were fantastically bad today.. but lets not pretend that man utd weren't worth every goal. Both Young goals in particular were of a quality i didn't think that diving pretender to Walcott and Lennon's England thrones could muster. Wenger should go, but he won't. So no use complaining about it. What Arsenal need is 2 CB's, 2 top four-quality CM's to cover for inevitable injuries, and a winger to cover Walcott when he's knackered from England duty. Suffice to say i don't think we'll get that, maybe a defender and a midfielder to patch the gaps up, but once the likes of Wilshere, Vermaelen, Sagna and, yes, Diaby are back in around a months time, Arsenal will easily make the top 5, and fight Liverpool for 4th. And even if we DO finish 5th/6th.. winning the Europa League is still winning SOMETHING! Tbh i dont care if they're in 4th, 14th or the Championship. I support Arsenal even if others will flee the sinking ship.

  90. jed

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:04 #11974

    Spot on. The difference between Ferguson and Wenger is that Ferguson adapts to what is happening in the real world. Wenger is living in a fantasy. He won't change so he needs to be changed.

  91. Harry

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:02 #11973

    Do you know what, I agree with probably 95% of what you have said, but still I will give wenger this window to address certain players we need and see what happens for about 8 weeks then I will judge him.... He made so many mistakes today in set up and pattern of play, tactics etc, but he was left short, yes i agree partly his fault, but none the less, it was then made harder by the suspensions and illness......... So i will give him one final chance before i ask for him to go.. What I would ask you, is who would replace him with and note even paul merson said wenger must stay........

  92. Sarge

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:01 #11971

    @Henryjohn - Patched up side or not that was a humiliating capitulation. No Arsenal team should ship 8 goals - that is a total embarrassment at this level. A team devoid of desire to compete all over the pitch and Kevin is right, no organisation, no tactical discipline or know-how. Over 35 years of watching Arsenal and I've never seen a defensive performance as bad as that. People like you make me laugh - 'blind acceptance is a sign of stupid fools who stand in line'(Malcolm McClaren). You just cannot accept that things need to change in order to get better. It is evident that this team is in free fall. We're not talking about winning the league or Champions League. We're talking about asembling a group of players capable of competing with the best and showing pride in wearing the Arsenal shirt. Sadly, there were very few out there who displayed that. The worst culprits were the supposed senior players. Wenger has the resources to make us competitive, but alas no longer has the know-how. It's clear he no longer has the confidence of certain players and the growing section of the paying public and to oversee the worst sequence of results (since the CC final defeat) for over 40 years doesn't exactly fill most punters with confidence (over a quarter of a season). How far are you prepared to go before accepting that this is simply not acceptable and things need to change on an industrial scale?

  93. JOEL

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:00 #11970

    You are absolutely correct in your assumptions.Unfortunately neither the Board,The Manager nor the Delusional AKB Fans will accept the facts.Evenually changes will have to be made but in the meantime the rest of us will have to carry on suffering!I've happily supported Arsenal since the late 60s and can't remember feeling this negative.(Some of the sides of the mid 70's didn't command much in the way of high expectation.)My feelings,however,do not make me any less of a fan and certain other supporters should remember that we all have every right to criticise where we see fit!

  94. Finally

    Aug 28, 2011, 21:00 #11969

    Hallelujah! At last the world wakes up: Wenger is the cancer. Get. Him. Out.

  95. Mr Lindsay Collier MA

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:59 #11968

    I have been involved in football on the pitch and off over many years. Wenger must be watching another team from the one that I have seen this season. If he cant see the problems and wont spend any money the he should go!!!!!!!!!!!

  96. TC

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:59 #11967

    Totally agree. Today was one of the worst managerial performances I've ever seen. I'm shocked at Wenger's incompetence but I'm devastated by the fact that the board just don't seem to care enough to do anything about it.

  97. Shaun

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:55 #11966

    A patched up side, fair call, but united had at least 5 players out too. We all expected a loss here, but to concede 8 is beyond belief. That is humiliating and shocking and shows this team are no longer even a top 4 side. There is a distinct lack of strength and depth in the club, but hey who cares when we have 100 million pounds in the bank.

  98. Rob

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:52 #11965

    At last some one has said it - enough is enough. And henryjohn - why was it patched up ? Who is responsible for the patching ? Who has watched player after player leave and done nothing about it bar reliance on sub standard 'youth' ? Even that won't wash as Utd were - as Kev said - younger than us. But they have real skill and drive - we have little of either. Wenger is a busted flush and we are in for a long and painful season. He won't go - yet, and the Board won't sack him. But we are now fighting to pull away from the relegation zone. I reckon we might make eighth come May. But I wouldn't bet on it. "We can't lose Arsene because we might become a mid table team !" I can assure you we'll be there before he goes.

  99. Lars

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:48 #11964

    He should be sacked and be replaced by Roy Hodgson to steady the ship and bring the club forward. I like L'pool chances for a top 4 position this season.

  100. Jamie

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:42 #11962

    "henryjohn 20:22pm 28th Aug 2011 Go away plastic fan - support through tick and thin." Yes, support through thick and thin doesn't merely mean that you see no evil and hear no evil, otherwise that makes you a bit of a dope.

  101. Jekyll

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:37 #11961

    Well Kevin, I'll summarise Wenger's post match comments for you... he cited the midweek match as a factor, as well as the sending off (though we had conceded 6 by then)and that it is 'always' humiliating to conceded 8. Thing is Arsene, AFC haven't conceded 8 since the 19th century. But the real pearler was the 'In England you always think signing players is the solution'. There he goes again, just when he needs to be very humble and gracious and accept he's made mistakes, actually insulting the local fanbase and country that has made him enormously wealthy once again. It defies believe, nothing will get through to this man, not losing his best players and captain, not record defeats. He simply needs to be removed from the picture.

  102. anderlecht70

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:33 #11960

    You are completely correct. I have supported Arsenal for 41 years and I have never seen anything as shameful as this - and I have seen some terrible games. We need someone with new ideas and a £ 100m budget - Martin O'Neil.

  103. MICK DVBRIS G

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:32 #11959

    Kevin, I am sure you will get a shed load of stick over this post but you are spot on. The club is being run by incompetents. Unfortunately our new found fan base is full of Jonny come lately tossers. I was there in the 70s and 80's and yes we were poor. A key difference however is that in those days we were not paying top dollar and thus we had hopes rather than expectations. I now pay £1400 a year for my season ticket. I hate the new stadium and all of the tarquins and henriettas that sit around me. I would love us to still be at highbury because it was a proper stadium inhabited by proper fans. My club was formed in 1886 and had class, history and tradition. Now it would seem that we were formed in 1996 in line with the arrival of St Arsene. Look at the hangers on he has still got. Pat Rice, great servant but a yes man. Bora Primorac, followed AW all over the globe. The final member of the inner sanctum being Paul Johnston. Yes the same bloke who used to work in the travel club - living the dream or what, but ultimately a yes man. Bye bye WENGER

  104. keith

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:30 #11957

    we are a joke wenger out please i was hopping the bus hit a wall on the way there no1 hurt of course but enough to call that game off we are a joke ah sure at this rate we will be playing westham next year ahhhh cheap tickets

  105. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:29 #11956

    Regarding this latest debacle, the best I can come up with is that the club should refund all ticket & travel money in full to every single supporter of The Arsenal who travelled to Old Trafford. The manager, players and club are responsible for wasting their time and money without due care or responsibility, so they are entitled to get it all back. Maybe even throw an extra 6.5% on top as a gesture of goodwill. I know it will never happen because that money is already in the hands of those with short arms and deep pockets, but it's a thought. Only Ches, Ramsey and perhaps Jenkinson can be credited with anything approaching the level of effort and application expected and required, although I felt more sorry for Jenkinson than anything else, exposed time and again, and trying desperately to cover the dickheads in front and alongside. Traore has always been terrible at this level and always will be. Leighton Baines wouldn't let Nani skin him 25 times and be smiling about things at the end, Moyes would rip his head off. The folly of giving the captaincy to a centre forward when the organisation needed to be generated from the defensive side of the team was also exposed. That's not RVP's fault, that again lies with the manager. Speaking of which, the manager did not mention any need to strengthen the defence afterward - instead, I heard a lot of waffle about having 3 days to do business and "we re trying very hard to sign players". As it turns out, that "trying very hard" consists of signing a mediocre squad striker from a mediocre French club! So, just like the Chamkh deal, and managed to piss Lille right off as they had already agreed terms with the guy, most likely meaning any lingering hope of signing Eden Hazard is scuppered in the process. Oh, and if anyone dares to try and mount a defence for the manager with the tired old bollocks of "but so many players were missing", or "judge at the end of the season" - **** off to football fantasy land. The manager will be waiting for you.

  106. Gerardo

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:29 #11955

    Two billionaires ... one of whom is very happy with the self-sustainable (cash cow?) business model .... and one that does n't even have a seat at the table. LOl.

  107. TEE

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:27 #11954

    Arsene is going nowhere. It is a sad result, but it is not the end of the world. If he goes, who will correct all this mess? You are a sore loser man, we are going through a bad times where 6 out of our regular players are out of the match. Have little faith, it is a bad times and it is going to pass.

  108. colesy

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:26 #11953

    I agree with this post entirely. I had been texting my mate (who is a fellow Gooner) all week and we both felt a thumping was on the cards despite the victory in Italy. I feared a repeat of the 6-1 drubbing. I didn't expect that Wenger would see us to our heaviest defeat for many, many seasons. The sad fact is that Wenger is too well thought of at the club by the likes of PHW and so he will not be under any pressure from the board. He will not quit either. However, whatever position we manage to secure at the end of this season, we are not going to finish in the Top 4. We are looking at Europa League qualification at best for Europe next season. Our embarrassing performances (since the Carling Cup defeat especially) and the likely dropping out of the Top 4 (and subsequent non qualifications for the CL), means that we will not manage to attract any quality players next Jan or next Summer. The impact Wenger's stubborn attitude and HIS transfer policy (not the board's) this summer will impact on this season and next. The ONLY chance that 2012/13 season may not be a repeat of this season's mess, will be a change of manager. Wenger must go - the fans can be an important voice of the club and there is hope that should enough fans voice their opinion, action may follow. I hope the AKB supporters reply to both this post any my reply. They will no doubt be asking for more time, etc, etc! In Arsene We Rust.

  109. chongo

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:24 #11952

    Hey Kevin why dont you give it a go. It cant be that hard. Management. You seem to know a thing or two. After all, you only need to buy, buy, buy. Who cant do that.

  110. mark

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:24 #11951

    I can't disagree with any of these comments. Perhaps the fan that told me to shut up when i suggested that Arsene should be moved on after the Villa game last season will now realize that Wenger is a liability. The same goes for all AKBs. I can't believe how we've wasted the summer the season is over . Let's plan for top 4 next season . This season we need 2 rebuild. Shame.

  111. henryjohn

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:22 #11950

    Go away plastic fan - support through tick and thin, this was a well patched up side. Maybe we can get west hams old Manager to coach up.

  112. nooshkie

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:18 #11949

    Agree with all said and also feel it is time the manager went. How is it that the board of directors can not see this happening to the team and what have the two money men to say about the Arsenal situation?

  113. Lasse

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:18 #11948

    you idiot.. Wenger is a world class manager, it's stupid to say somthing like tath..

  114. Tom

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:17 #11947

    Good blog. A truly pathetic performance. No fight, no pride and no clue. The Neviller and Merse on Sky Sports were right - Arsenal were wide open, no pressure on the ball and acres of space in behind. Against anyone, let alone Man Utd, such a lack of basic organisation is a recipe for disaster. A sad day.

  115. Andrew Cohen

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:16 #11946

    Doubtless we will now have Dr Bunsen Honeydew, Beaker, Sweetums and Gonzo the Great himself lambasting the Editor for "wanting" this to happen. It was an inevitability that it would be Alex Ferguson's team that found the enormous gaps in our defence and exploited them ruthlessly. This is the beginning of the end. Not only will we be rooted to the bottom of the table very shortly, but the team must be in tatters. Even the Board may perhaps wake up and reach for the P 45. Not on Monday obviously, because that would give a successor 3 days to do a few much needed deals which might be vital. The only thing holding Wenger in place now is the ego and embarrassment of a Board that should have spotted this long ago.

  116. chaddles

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:16 #11945

    Can someone please tell me what Gazidis' job is? Since Arsene runs Arsenal, what role does Ivan G have other than promising the fans a "busy" summer for AFC. They have both sold everyone down the river ... Both Wenger and Gazidis need to leave ASAP!!!!!!

  117. Rob Cooper

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:14 #11944

    I am consoling myself that it is only 3 points dropped and that there is plenty of time to turn it around. We have been very unlucky with injuries and are we going to have a player sent off every match? That aside Arsene needed to have bought the players we very obviously need early and avoided this humiliation, I predicted 8 or 9 when I saw the starting line up, we are stripped bare and left with players that should only have been featuring occasionally.He also needs to employ a defensive coach, we are so bad it is embarassing. Cahill ,Jagielka, M'vila or Arteta, and the Korean, get most of our players back and we will be back on track and we can very quickly forget about our first 3 matches.

  118. uz-ben

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:13 #11943

    Get real mate. Wenger goes and who do you replace him with. I can assure you that should that happen AE will end up in a Club bigger than Arsenal whilst we will be battling in the bottom half of the Table

  119. mudo

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:13 #11942

    screw you Kevin. we all love arsenal. but sacking the manager is not a solution. i have not seen any suggestions for his replacement in yo article. stop moaning and get behind yo team. at this point in time the lads need our support than neva. tell me after you ve read this how many coaches out there without jobs that are as good as arsene. we ve just had the most difficult summer in the last 15 years. arsene is almost signing a striker. he knows we need a mid fielder and a defender. stop asking for his head. its very depressing.

  120. Nick tofi

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:13 #11941

    The current top 4 have all sold out to billionaires and they have moved upwards. David dein predicted this years ago and only now is it proving to be the case. Last line of the post is key, the board need to sell up before they ruin our club

  121. John

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:07 #11940

    Wenger needs to come clean - was it the board that said he couldnot spend until Cesc and Nasty were sold, or was it his call to delay, knowing what the problems were. If the former, then all season ticket holders should be given a refund of half the cost in recognition of the lie we were sold,plus a public apology from Kranke. If the latter, then Wenger must resign. The injuries and suspensions excuse will not wash, Wenger and the medical staff should give an explanation also regarding the annual long list of injuries we, more than any other club, sustain.

  122. o'brien

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:07 #11939

    I would like to know how much he really has to spend because i can't see what exactly stan kronke has done for the club since the takeover.As for the defence we only have two vermarlen and sagna the rest have their heads in the clouds,positioning was the worst i've seen since the last heavy defeat by united[stepanovs].Stay calm and look for who's comming in .

  123. Dave

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:06 #11938

    Wenger MUST reveal his restrictions to buying/refusing to pay high wages by the board. This is a similar situation to Liverpool when the two Americans were ripping their club apart but Rafa got all the blame instead. Same is happening at Arsenal where the board are against each other but, as Wenger cannot do his job properly, Arsene gets all the blame. So for those who say sack Wenger also name his replacement because I assure you Wenger haters he is doing more than one job at Arsenal, he not just a football manager like when he was when Dein was at the club. Six years without a trophy = No trophy without Dein. Also it is a disgrace that Stan Kroneke has remained silent since he started investing in Arsenal, where is the money from the cllub really going? All gooners must demands answers from the board & the answers must come from Kroneke. Coincidentally non of Kroneke's club's go on to be a major success in terms of winning trophies, they just make a lot of money for his own revenue. Is Wenger really to blame since Dein has left? Arsenal's current board are inactive and lazy by making Wenger do most of the work. The board's vision is to keep Stan Kroneke happy (financially). When Wenger said of not expecting anyone to leave and not selling Cesc & Nasri a few weeks ago he wasn’t just answering questions but was also stating to the board (& kroneke) what he wanted – not wanting/expecting his players to be sold.

  124. John

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:04 #11937

    Sack the board and Thanks but no Yanks. Bring in Usmanov and bring back Dein

  125. Chris

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:01 #11936

    In Arsene we rust. Hes got to go. Every manager has to leave sometime if not for poor results(Wenger) or health which will be Sir Alex's undoing I think. Wenger has done a lot and should be remembered for it but its time for him to resign.

  126. FlaGooner

    Aug 28, 2011, 20:00 #11935

    Absolutely! Wenger MUST leave! He is running the club as a supermarket..selling our best players. He has RUINED our club!

  127. JSP

    Aug 28, 2011, 19:59 #11934

    Wenger you are an embaressment. Go and do us all a favour PLEASE!!!!

  128. Stratty

    Aug 28, 2011, 19:59 #11933

    You really cheered us up when we got home. Cheers!

  129. Eric

    Aug 28, 2011, 19:58 #11932

    imo: GEORGE GRAHAM

  130. Joseph Stanley

    Aug 28, 2011, 19:56 #11930

    Any one who calls for Arsene's head right now i an absolut jerk... Shut UP!!! Look at the bigger picture...Ungratefull dim wit!!

  131. truearsenal4life

    Feb 28, 2011, 20:25 #2711

    Thankyou thankyou thankyou this website is the only website which has perspective. The goal was unfortuante, for me koscielny is still one of the best defenders in the pre league coz his reading and anticipation of the game is second to none. nobody can mock szezceny coz he himself is a beast and will become arsenal greatest goalkeeper ever, ps why do people say it was as his fault? the performance overall was rubbish, we only turned up a gear in the 65 minuite and we just cant win these kind of games without a leader and definition of football perfection which is fabregas. we are still in 3 comps cooooomee on arsenal

  132. olly rafferty

    Feb 28, 2011, 19:04 #2707

    on my life i said it to my brother around the 85th minute,its gus ceaser time and then it happens,the ghost is alive and well.

  133. HowardL

    Feb 28, 2011, 16:35 #2697

    I have a similar experience with finals - 11 defeats and only 6 wins. I missed out on Liverpool in '71 (1 voucher short) and Manure in '79 (couldn't get a ticket) but even they would have only made it W8 L11. As you say, CL, in many of those defeats we were 'nailed on' to win, just like yesterday. The media does love to see us fail but like Monty Python's Black Knight we just need to get up of the floor and prove them all wrong. It won't be easy. Yesterday was, as you say, Luton revisited, and I wouldn't wish such a fate on even our worst enemies - OK, well maybe T*ttenham. We fans must try to help by continuing to support a team who seem to have the world against them because collectively they are called 'Arsenal'.