Three wins in a row!

Online Ed: It’s all about results



Three wins in a row!

The Ox: Quality Goal


I think there would be few Arsenal fans that would argue with the idea that what is most important at the moment is results. Performances can wait for a while, as the process of rebuilding from a disastrous run back to the end of February slowly continues. The club’s treatment table is an added handicap, and with Wilshere and Vermaelen unlikely to return any time soon, one shudders to think of the implications of Robin van Persie getting his traditional injury on international duty. One moment summed up Marouane Chamakh yesterday evening. The ball came in from a corner, the two defenders in front of him could not reach it, and rather than head it goalwards, the player was hit on the head with the ball. No reaction, no preparation for the opportunity. Just a player totally lacking in confidence. As a back up option, he is no option. Our Korean number 9 did not set the place alight against League Two Shrewsbury, and although I am not going to write anyone off after one game, my hopes for him are not exactly sky high. Nicklas Bendtner anyone?

Still, there were signs of encouragement if you look for them hard enough. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain’s goal was a thing of wonder. Real composure and an eye for goal. He had a generally quiet game, but if he can make decisive moments count, then he is worth his place in the team. It will be interesting to see what happens when Theo Walcott is fit again. Chamberlain just seems more productive and given as much service as Theo, this observer thinks we would see more end product. It’s good if there is competition for places anyway, and Theo seems to do better as an impact sub in the last 20 minutes, so it may be no bad thing to see him demoted in the pecking order.

The backline actually looked better too. We know Song can play there, and perhaps shows more defensive commitment as a centre half. Mertesacker is a no-nonsense organizer and Andre Santos had a better game last night than at Blackburn. However, it is the players in the rest of the team that need to work harder to avoid some of the chances Olympiacos created last night. In truth, I would not have begrudged them a draw, given the opportunities they created, generally from a lack of closing down by those in front of the backline. Someone ventured to me that for the visitors’ goal and the similar situation from the following corner, Oxlade-Chamberlain wanted to go and deal with the extra man but was following zonal marking instructions. Which presumably means that the system does not allow for a short corner. Who knows? Hopefully someone on the Arsenal staff who can address this before the weekend.

It was weird to see Boro Primorac sitting next to Pat Rice in the Arsenal dug out. His contribution seemed pretty insignificant, just sitting there with his arms folded all match. Maybe he was there to instruct on the substitutions. It was certainly Rice doing all the touchline cajoling. Would it have been any different with Wenger there? Somehow, I doubt it.

Football can often be about fortune, and I think that was the case against Olympiacos. I will never bemoan it, but if you rely on it too much, the law of averages will bite you on the backside. Better to actually get things right so that results are less in doubt. It was a gamble by the manager to start Chamakh and Rosicky instead of Van Persie and Ramsey, but he got away with it. Weakened line-ups away from home in Europe have certainly cost Arsenal in the past. I have no doubt that Wenger had one eye on next Sunday’s derby in his team selection. All well and good if the squad has the depth to manage without two starters. It was however interesting to note that Sebastien Squillaci has a calf muscle strain, meaning three of the four centre backs were out injured. One hopes that this might be an Almunia-style diplomatic injury. I’d be more than happy for Song to continue at centre back until Vermaelen’s return. Then again I am not a Koscielny fan. This would mean Frimpong or Coquelin being given the holding role on a regular basis. Given their youth, far from ideal, but I think the lesser of a few evils.

The derby game this weekend will tell us a lot more about the prospect of recovery. Arsenal have won three home matches that on paper, you would fully expect them to. Now we have – for the first time in living memory – a trip to Spurs in which the Gunners are very much the underdogs. However, the only thing I am certain of is that derby matches are a law unto themselves, and anything can happen. So who knows how we will all be feeling by 6pm on Sunday. At least the team goes there on the back of a mini-run which should boost confidence. And a definite improvement against Olympiacos was the way the team dealt with the last ten minutes. The visitors had one real chance of note, a tame header. But there were less of the normal collywobbles, perhaps the benefit of the experience of the new arrivals. Long may it continue.

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66
comments

  1. Petrovic

    Oct 02, 2011, 18:49 #13634

    . . . . .at this rate Gus Caesar would have been a world class player in this side?

  2. Mick Appleton

    Sep 30, 2011, 14:26 #13616

    If Rosicky, Chamakh & Arshavin start games we cannot expect for performances to improve. This trio should be playing non-league football, they have nothing to offer.

  3. David

    Sep 30, 2011, 13:24 #13610

    Ed enough – you do a great job in making cheap derisory comments, sadly your not as productive on producing valid argument. What part of what I’ve said causes you to think I’m delusional? From such a short comment by me I’d be very interested to know.

  4. JER

    Sep 30, 2011, 12:38 #13606

    I thought Song did OK, it was the full backs that were the problem and the lack of support from the wide men in front of them. Let's get real, the OX looks promising but did very little apart from a nice goal. He is nowhere near Walcott's level yet but I don't see why they can't play together in future, I see him as more of a central midfielder. I'm fearful of Sunday, will be wathcing from behind the sofa I think.

  5. Mike

    Sep 30, 2011, 8:57 #13595

    You guys would complain that hell is too cold if you got there - clearly the older supporters who have seen it all before have a bit more of a balanced perspective of the whole picture. The new signings have contributed much to the dismay of the doom mongerers. Arteta, Gervinho, Santos, Chamberlain all have a goal to their name. Mertesaker is on a hiding to none at the moment - how many games has he played with the same partner to generate an understanding. 3 Games, 3 wins - unconvincing yes, but nevertheless three wins. Got to say with all the injuries we have, that if we come away with a point at Spurs it will be job done for now. Get behind the team, no matter where you are......

  6. ed enough

    Sep 30, 2011, 6:16 #13593

    David - You are clearly another AKB delusional...Wake up son and stop kidding yourself...

  7. DW Thomas

    Sep 30, 2011, 1:07 #13592

    Don't know what game some of you saw. I would suggest go back and watch it again. I know goals are needed to win games, but even more important is defending, consistently. Ox, like some others said, looked just like the old Denilson, jogging back and expecting others to cover too often. How was Pat Rice and the others not all over his ass? Song has been solid since his own goal against Blackburn and does some really good defending at times. He needs a serious set of instructions on what his limited role should be no matter where he plays. And it should not include bombing forward. Chamakh failed in his chances, but I thought he did some good things and just needs to keep building confidence. No way is he worse than Bendtner. Remember Bendy missing 4 golden chances in one game a couple seasons ago? Marouane just needs minutes. Nobody gains form with the minutes he's had since last fall. Arteta is solid, works hard both ways, but needs more help in midfield. Love Frimpong's effort and heart, but he is raw and reckless. He gave the ball away several times in key positions, but at least works his butt off to get it back. We need his and Arteta's effort all over the pitch. Our strikers do too much jogging for my taste. Don't think we can win much with Ramsey as a lead midfielder. His thinking is too slow and too little forward passing from him for my taste. This Zonal defending is a complete joke. Sure, play in your area, but call out and switch off marks as they come in to your zone. Has to be man to man on corners too. Otherwise no one will be accountable. Seems to me that's what Wenger wants, less blame for opposition goals so no one feels bad. Anyway, a win at the Lane any way we can will lift spirits, especially after last season's results. Yet, I am not getting my hopes up. Still nice to win some games though.

  8. nugs

    Sep 29, 2011, 22:21 #13588

    After listening to wengers pre match interview I wondered what was the point of leaving THOF? Was it not so we coulr compete with the worlds elite? At the moment we can not compete with the best in england! Wenger is not a TOP manager like some of ours claim if he was why does he make the same mistakes time and time again if he was why does he refuse to address our defensive problems or get someone in who can and why does he not sort out our injury problems which must come down to poor training techniques or a poor medical team! Thx for the first 6-7 years wenger but you clearly fallen way way behind so time for you jog ! **** wenger and **** the board ARSENAL TILL I DIE

  9. Viking

    Sep 29, 2011, 22:02 #13587

    Not sure why Song is getting flack on here, I'd certainly have him playing in central defence ahead of Djorou and Seb. Shava, Rosicky and Chamakh continue their poor form, not sure how they get selected, and not sure how Rosicky warrants taking the armband. He's no leader or inspiration. Shava is just poor, doesn't do enough, gives the ball away consistently, has no pace, I'm not sure what he brings to the team, the same sentiments apply to Rosicknote and Chamakh too. To think we chased both Chamakh and Shava for so long makes it even more ridiculous! Same thing, I recall happened with the Beast too, remember how bad he was anyone?!! As for the Ox, he's a kid, and will be awesome, he has shown touch, vision, can produce a cross, has the ability to beat players, and confidence too. Time to let both him and Ryo lose, let's see how good this Ryo is, as he can't be any worse than Shava or Rosicky. And finally, give Ramsey a chance too, he's just come back from a shocking injury, you can still see he's worried about taking a hit on the pitch, but I'm sure with time that he will show us how good he will be, his cause is certainly not helped with so many poor players around him. And can someone please organise our defence and make us more solid again, I only feel comfortable with at least a 2 goal lead with a few minutes to go and the opposition down to 10 men!!!

  10. TK

    Sep 29, 2011, 21:40 #13586

    Your Ox love is a bit embarassing. Literally ONE goal and an okay performance (he did not track back at all, kind of like Denilson there or is that not important anymore? If you want better defensive displays, you need the whole team to defend as a group, no?) and you're waxing lyrical about an 18 year old? Calm yourself down. Walcott has been great since last season. He deserves his place in the team.

  11. Lee afc

    Sep 29, 2011, 21:15 #13585

    What is wrong with all the negativeness?? Kevin is saying, at the minute it is slowly slowly. We are never going to start beating teams by 5-6 goals. We all know that. But its 3 points in the Champions league, 3 points in the premier league and through to the next round of the mickey mouse cup in the last 3 games. Naturally, we are along way off the Invincibles that we were spoilt rotten by some years ago. Its tough being a gooner but Sunday is the biggest game of the season, in being that we lose and we have finally handed over the north london crown but put it into perspective and understand that the ****s last won the league when????? 50..60..70 years ago how many times have we won it in that space of time? I know it doesn,t make up for us being pretty mediocre but WE ARE ARSENAL ....and its always been my view that you have no choice other than to remember its not Wenger Fc... its ARSENAL FC

  12. Dave

    Sep 29, 2011, 20:30 #13583

    Sadly last night showed how average we have become.Its good though that there were thousands of empty seats.You have fooled the fans for so long Wenger. but not anymore.We are a team that has just given up on defence.The chances the Greeks created was shocking defending.An under 10's team would have defended their goal better than us.Santos great going forward but like Clichy and Gibbs before him he just cant defend.Ox looks a good prospect and can cross a ball better than Walnutt ever will but you can count on Wenger coaching the natural talent out of him.As for Rosicky and Chamakh they should be charged for impersonating a footballer.

  13. BRISKI

    Sep 29, 2011, 19:34 #13579

    I was feeling quite cheerful until I read all this stuff! I know that we are at a very low point - just about he lowest since I came on board in 1964. But this is our team , with no hope of change until January at the earliest - so although we have a right to moan about it , we have to support it, don't we? Like everybody else, I suspect, I was on the edge of my seat until the final whistle against Olympiakos. For the most part we played without sustained conviction or confidence - individual or team. . The defence remains a shambles , with elementary errors - like their goal, for example - that you can hardly believe. Nobody picked him up - nobody got in his way! Frightening. At the same time, I want to defend Song who is not without skill and is a fantastic worker, though capable of frustrating errors. Santos looks as though he can play a bit - and will blend well with the team quite quickly. Perhaps someone should tell him his first role is defence! Perhaps someone really should get a grip of the whole defence and squeeze it until it submits. I also bravely suggest we should lay off young Theo for a while. Give the lad a break - he has the potential to be a good player , but lacks what the whole team lacks, some kind of a charismatic leader - especially important in the team's demoralised state. No idea where the 'leader' is to come from - not at the Emirates at the moment? Will the January window produce him? Arteta remains the best buy - a very attractive man my wife says - , although off the pace on Wednesday, but he needs confident people to play with - and the same ones in every match. Rosicky, Chamakh and Arshavin - all with reasonable histories - and good when they first came to the club - have all faded badly but may be revitalised by on pitch leadership - and a return of confidence that only winning can bring. Good start from the Ox - just hope the management protect him. Theo was once the Club's juvenile lead - and not that long ago. As for the manager....well, he's not going anywhere , is as stubborn as a mule and is probably irreplaceable - and certainly not now. OK - so let's support this dismal outfit - fit to bust - and pray for better things to come. The team, given total commitment , solid graft and unflagging spirit can, will and must beat Spurs Arsenal for ever!

  14. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Sep 29, 2011, 18:23 #13577

    Somebody said here that this was Arteta's weakest match? So his point - blank goal - line block which covered the arse of an entire defence that decided not to mark any Olympiacos player was weak? Hmmmm.....I remember Tone making a double goal saving block at Upton Park in the FA Cup in 1990, when we were 2-0 down and getting slaughtered, that must have been weak too. Only weak players make goal-saving blocks in big matches. As for not hearing a word against Song, it's impossible to say whether he's saved as many games at Chesney, but he's definitely contributed to conceding as many goals as Chesney has prevented. Not enough positional sense or discipline in his game. I wonder where taking a share of team responsibility sits amongst Song's priorities. It frequently looks like he's playing a different game to everyone else, and I don't mean in a "better than everyone else" Messi style either.

  15. EboueKablooie

    Sep 29, 2011, 18:18 #13576

    I don't know how you can say that Bendtner and Park are in the same class after one game. Completely different types of players.

  16. Gunner6288

    Sep 29, 2011, 16:03 #13571

    I'm tired of everyone hating on Song. Patrick Vieira was one of the dirtiest players around, as was Tony Adams. He make's fouls because he knows he has to - it's his job. He brakes up play. If you think he doesn't have positional sense then your a fool. He's saved us as many games as the Shez - I get that Ox is the man of the moment, but I won't hear a word against Song. Besides, he rifled in a shot that was the epitome of what we need -someone who shoots as soon as he's in the box.

  17. lee armitt

    Sep 29, 2011, 15:44 #13570

    Sad to say but apart from his goal the ox was awful all night until pat rice put him out of his misery.how those idiots on arsenal.com voted him man of the match beggers belief.frimpong as well has the 1st touch of a elephant and coquelin should have started ahead of him but as he does not have a twitter account frimpong will always be liked more.man of the match was marcano who was responsible for both goals and without him we would never have won the game.

  18. Jekyll

    Sep 29, 2011, 14:37 #13567

    I note someone said Santos 'can't yet defend'. Well, he's not going to learn that at Arsenal. Wenger doesn't see full backs as defensive players, Wenger has bought him because he bombs down the left - that's what Wenger likes in a full back, defending is secondary at best. Even by our standards their goal was exceptionally poor to give away. It's now reached the point where the defenders don't even make a cursory attempt to challenge for the ball. It gets worse and worse. Never going to get better under Wenger.

  19. Seven Kings Gunner

    Sep 29, 2011, 14:35 #13566

    I thought Song distributed the ball well from the back and seemed a more calming influence on our BFG I agree with Kev and think AW should persevere with him at the back, even if things go wrong the sense of panic seems less with AS than when LK is playing there. Problem is a lack of pace so I hope we play a lot deeper on Sunday and don't leave too many gaps behind our wavy line. Thought RVP helps us through the last 10 minutes as he held the ball up very well - Chamakh cannot make the ball stick and too many attacks by the Greek team came from him losing possession far too cheaply.

  20. Ron

    Sep 29, 2011, 14:09 #13564

    A bit of an idealized view of the game might i say. Olympiakos deserved a draw, but as you say a win is a win these days. Song is an average performer and as a CB hes hopeless. Just too slow and has no positional sense there. To be brutally frank hes not much better in midfield. Always exposed v the best teams, looks good v your Wolves and Wigans and people hail him as some new type Makelele. Hes never that. Chamakh must be the worst front man in Prem history or very close to it. Rosicky is a League 2 performer. Ramsey looks lacking in guile, strength and confidence. Jury out on him very much. Samtos - typical Brazilian full back. Doesnt like defending. Defence overall was a shambles and the middle was too. Arteta's weakest game yet. I think Spurs will drub us on Sunday, at least 2-0, but maybe more i fear. Still, ill be there. Cmon you Gunners!!!

  21. David

    Sep 29, 2011, 13:53 #13562

    ed enough – Arsenal needed to turn their results around at some stage and in my view sooner is better than later, so why belittle wins over Shrewsbury, Bolton & Olympiakos? And for the record, Olympiakos certainly gave no gifts last night, it was a hard earned victory.

  22. ed enough

    Sep 29, 2011, 13:40 #13561

    As predicted...A few home wins and Wenger has you all believing we have turned a corner...Wins v Shrewsbury, Bolton and Greeks bearing gifts, does not a season make!!! By sunday evening the grim reality will once again surface into plain view for all you AKB's to see....

  23. Gee

    Sep 29, 2011, 13:12 #13560

    Walcott being an impact sub is a myth. Almost all his goals and assists last season was when he started. When he came on as a sub he did very very little. All his goals and assists this season have been when he's started also. Rosicky is an absolute disgrace in my opinion. The fact he is deemed a nice bloke and so is given the arm band is pathetic. He offered absolutely nothing last night

  24. Bedy

    Sep 29, 2011, 12:54 #13559

    It is supprising that some people are rating Ox above Walcot,then better to sell Walcot to our rivals and see how it goes. Walcot to me has a weapon many footballers can not boast of and mind you Messi and Guadiola can be wrong about him including Sir Ferguson. For the records Walcot has 13goals for us last season as a winger,even some of our strikers don't have that much. i wonder when will people start to realise individual players always bring diffrent things to the game.

  25. Marky

    Sep 29, 2011, 12:36 #13557

    for me the positives were a couple of crunching tackles by Frimpong. the confidance in possession of santos but i worry he cant yet defend. Arteta working very hard and caring but as yet not his confidant self. the negatives were Rosicky should never ever wear an arsenal shirt he is a joke, takes no responsibility, never does the tough stuff, is a fraud. Chamahk is in the wrong sport you have to control the ball in football. we now no longer keep the ball as we did before. we still have gaping holes which better teams will definitely exploit. we will have to be totally focused and determined on sunday to come away with a draw and what upsets me is that none of you appreciate board and management have actually put us in a position that spurs first 13 players are better than our first 13 players and harry's wage bill is £65mpa and ours is £100mpa

  26. Dan h

    Sep 29, 2011, 12:19 #13556

    The OX took his goal well a real bright performance & spoke really well afterwards very encouraging from him.Some of the senior players dissapointed AA & Rosicky in particular i thought both lost the ball too cheaply with loose passes & Chamakh is a worry when RVP is absent.Still 4pts from the opening games sets us up nicely for the rest of the group.Sunday will be a massive test hopefully we will have a few back scratching my head to think of the last time we went into a derby as clear underdogs 9/4 available at most bookies!

  27. We have beaten no one yet

    Sep 29, 2011, 12:03 #13555

    So Kev you would be happy to play a player with no positional sense at CB.I think you have caught Wengeritis.Song hasnt got a football brain,he gives away stupid fouls he is a headless chicken.Poor Szezesny has made more saves this season than Seaman and Lehmann made in a whole season because our defence cant defence.The Greeks are a poor team but no one would have denied them a draw.Meertsacker has not improved the standard of defending since he joined its just the opposition has not been good enough to punish us.Sunday is a season defining game if we lose we will be 5 ponts behind the Spuds with them having a game in hand.And to be honest i cant seen any other result than a home win.With Greedy and Defoe running riot.

  28. Matty S

    Sep 29, 2011, 11:52 #13554

    I think we need more than a result against Spurs, we need inspiration. At the moment, we're trying to pass off our poor start as just that, a poor start. But if we falter to Spurs, then we are back to square one. Personally, I'd rather see a well played draw where we are tight at the back and robbed by chance than a lucky win, because it will 'spur' us on. As you say, we cant ride our luck forever (unless we change our name to Man Utd)

  29. Mark

    Sep 29, 2011, 11:40 #13552

    3 wins in a row against a 2nd division side,a poor premiership side and one of the worst teams in the CL group stage who had lost their 10 games against English opposition and only scored one goal.Thats how far down Wengwer has taken our club.We were lucky to get a draw last night.Too many players strolling around as if it was a friendly Frimpong Rosicky and Chamakh hang your heads in shame.The defence was shocking even Sagna had a poor game.Have you ever seen worse defending from a corner than at their goal? I really fear for us on sunday

  30. JP

    Sep 29, 2011, 11:28 #13550

    Hmmmm - Shrewsbury, Bolton and Olympiakos: don't think I will get too excited yet but as you say you have to start somewhere.

  31. DJ

    Sep 29, 2011, 11:07 #13549

    Seriously man, this analysis is just embarrassing from back to front. I find it hilarious this is actually sold in print. It really contains nothing more than idiot logic. There only thing it does have of worth is passion, but the passion is misguided and just fuels your negative self-projecting nonsense.

  32. Wenger MUST go

    Sep 29, 2011, 10:50 #13548

    The defence was ****e last night ed did you see the defending or none defending for their goal.Yet again without Szczesny we would have lost.Song is NOT a CB just like he isnt a DM.The OX had a fine game even now i would start him before the wasteful Walnutt but Wenger wont.In Rosicky and Chamakh we have two passengers who are just picking up huge wages.Yet idiot Wenger makes Rosicky captain you couldnt make it up.Bendtner is rubbish but Chamakh makes him look world class.It will be back to the real world on sunday at the Lane can only see a bad defeat.We are simply an average team at the moment

  33. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Sep 29, 2011, 10:30 #13546

    We won. Good. But an enjoyable game made possible by an unsurprising reason: Our average, ordinary team played another average, ordinary team in a cup tie. Now I’m not sure about the rest of you, but when I watch Arsenal these days I don’t so much hear the crowd singing or chanting, as more like the incessant ringing of alarm bells. Oh, well. Let’s make the most out of this season’s appearance in the Champions League and look back at our times in it with fond memories. Those were the days!

  34. Brady's Left Peg

    Apr 15, 2011, 22:37 #5155

    Eloquent, well written and well said. I admit I've been as frustrated as hell, like many of us, but the mere thought that the Spudders will bring each other off to see us arguing amongst ourselves keeps me in check. I'm kinda with Steve Bruce on this one (for once). Wasn't it him that said " when they win one, they'll be unstoppable"?, or was that just another of my weird nightmares?? We might have to let someone go and we need some in, fair enough, but for every different opinion/argument let's not lose sight of the bigger picture: We love the Arse. We're Gooners - we should be happy, man

  35. Gooner-in-Provence

    Apr 15, 2011, 20:57 #5152

    @Loyal since 1980... how can you say your decision to buy a season ticket would be based on the premise that Arsenal may not be competative in the transfer market or not competing with the top teams. Surely you buy your season ticket to watch football...... and under Wenger, generally you watch class football. When I used to go to games it was purely to watch football, and to watch MY team, whether they won or lost. A true supporter goes to watch their team no matter what the end result. Perhaps this is the problem now at the emirates and why so called fans boo players and the manager!!! Perhaps fans need to get back to basics and just support their team... win or lose.

  36. Goonertilldeath

    Apr 15, 2011, 13:26 #5138

    Brilliant article. Often thought the same that when you compare our overall situation to any other club, we should be less harsh on ourselves. Yes, it's deeply frustrating how we seem to be so close yet so far, but we're not looking down the end of a barrel either. AW looks increasingly out of touch and our inability to sign players we all know we need is beyond annoying (especially with the ludicrous prices we pay) - but a new manager, some new faces, clearing away some rubbish (Denilson, Almunia etc etc) and we'll be back on the path to trophies. KEEP THE FAITH!

  37. duncanjohnson72

    Apr 15, 2011, 12:25 #5137

    Loyal since 1980 - I understand your point mate but I can't see the advantage of telling everyone we would have no cash. Other clubs would come in for our players thinking we are desperate, they needed season ticket income (how many people would renew if they thought we'd have a baron patch?) and you wouldn't be able to attract good young players if you told them that we'd be doing little for 5 years. The Club are far from squeaky clean and have been very selective with their wording too. We have moved so that we can compete, and I appreciate I'm splitting hairs here, but they never said straight away. We've been very close to 3 trophies in 6 years (2 CC's and the CL) and tbh should have won at least one of them, on a shoe-string and now look reeady to compete. There can be no coincidence that AW wants to manage with a 'youth' policy at the time we move grounds - he was perfect for the role and has done really well in his time. I totally agree that we need the squad strengthening (we do have a bit of dead wood) but it's just not that simple. I'm a silver member and go to about 10-12 games a season (I've been going since the late 80's) and can't believe the amount of criticism levelled against him. The arguing amongst Gooners and booing is sad and i just think we should wait to see what happens and what the summer brings... I do agree that this can't go on forever though...

  38. Loyal since 1980

    Apr 14, 2011, 14:54 #5123

    Duncanjohnson72, fair enough you say there was no money to buy top quality players. OK, but why lie to the fans, why can't the club be honest. When we moved to the new stadium, we were told that we were moving to compete with the likes of the top clubs around Europe, transfer wise. On this basis, I (mug) bought season tickets as I was on the list for a number of years, along with thousands of other supporters. In the 6 years, we have seen experienced players let go (because AW thought they were to old), we have failed to win throphies and have not invested in the right players. Now, if AFC had said at the time of the move, that we will have a big debt and for the next 5/6 years it will be difficult to compete with other clubs i the transfer market, then fair enough, I and may other of thousands of supporters could have made a choice to decide wheher to take up a season ticket or even attend games knowing that the project is to reduce the debt and that we would not be competetive in the transfer market. But AFC did not do this, they lied to us. AW started off as a great manager, but it has come to the point now that he has to change in the summer, he must clear out the deadwood, promote soem reserve players and buy a world class spine and then start a new AW project that will win throphies on a regular basis, just like Manu. If he does not and carries on with the same mantar at the end of the season' i believe in this squad', we are one of two players away from being a great side' I beleive in this team' and we do nothing nothing next year, then he has to go, and what a shame that would be, because AW is a top class manager, but just lost the plot in the end!

  39. duncanjohnson72

    Apr 14, 2011, 8:32 #5110

    I've read back over the vatious commenst since my first post and I'm still surprised at the thoughts of some. We've moved stadiums and it hasn't cost you any more money in terms of ticket prices - who do you think pays? the tooth-fairy? The move has hampered us financially but we've still be competing. Yes, we all want to win trophies but we really aren't that far off. People say 'we just need a keeper, CB and midfielder' - how much do you that'll cost??? £50M??? Don't you get it? THERE WAS NO MONEY but now we are close to having some - have some faith! Sheesh!

  40. Shropshire Lad

    Apr 14, 2011, 7:16 #5107

    Cool, Simon But cannot help thinking this is the calm before the storm. could be the mother of all close seasons -or not if Wenger maintains his supremacy. I don't want to lose his lead but I do want to lose his 'yes men' in the coaching and medical support team

  41. wenger out

    Apr 13, 2011, 20:38 #5101

    "stop taking Arsenal so seriously". You should take a leaf out of your own book then! At least that way we would be spared your very, very dull writing. Wenger out!

  42. Ando

    Apr 13, 2011, 19:28 #5097

    As long as we do not sign any more useless French players and the money from the Fabregas sale is re-invested in a player good enough to wear the shirt.

  43. Viks

    Apr 13, 2011, 19:27 #5096

    Very Good article....supporting Arsenal and taking it a bit too seriously really causes emotional breakdown. Just last weeks game against Blackpool start of 2nd half....I started sweating in my well ventilated hall.

  44. ppp

    Apr 13, 2011, 17:03 #5094

    The anti-arsenal brigade have completely lost their marbles. According to them anything other than sacking everyone then employing the most expensive manager possible and buying all of the most expensive players constitutes failure! I'll tell you what failure is - failure is claiming you support the club then doing naff all about it on matchday. Turn up and support the team you moaning whining squealing little tarts!

  45. thatsimonrose

    Apr 13, 2011, 15:58 #5090

    Chris Dee - I love your passion and I share it. Don't assume that because I don't echo your comments word for word that I don't share the basis of them. Getting close to success but not grabbing it is galling. Paying out big money for tickets but not seeing money spent where needed in the squad/team is galling. I don't think I've seen/heard anybody dispute that. Much of that should be a given. The differences of opinion lie in quite how the club have held back Wenger and how much Wenger has held back the club. None of us truly know. By and large though, in the big picture, Arsenal are not in a bad shape and once more/all debt is out of the way there will hopefully be more leeway for big improvements. There is no point having mutiny amongst fans in the meantime. We all want the same thing: as strong and victorious an Arsenal as possible, on the pitch and off.

  46. Colin

    Apr 13, 2011, 14:57 #5082

    Simon we have a manager who has stated he would be happy to finish 2nd for the next 20 years and a chairman who says the fans are stupid to complain because we dont win trophies.And you are happy the way the club is being run.Get real.At any other big club the manager would be held to account for 6 trohyless seasons.But at Arsenal the manager gets a new contract and is told to carry on your losing ways old boy.Tickets prices will be increased this summer on the back of a lack of success.The wage bill is just behind Man Utd so while they reward winners we are rewarding losers.We have a new owner but we all know if he gave Wenger £50m he wouldnt spend it.Wenger should be told a top 4 finish is not good enough by Kroenke his job should be on the line

  47. chris dee

    Apr 13, 2011, 14:17 #5076

    to Chris.post 5528. O K mate my 'trophy crazed drooling' is wrong,I give up,I shall bow my head and with cap in hand accept 7 years with no trophy as 'success'. I will forget the 4-4 at Newcastle, 2-3 against Spurs and Birmingham as these results were down to the current financial climate and short termism! Another supporter a la Simon Rose who will be singing the same tune even if we went another 7 years without a trophy. It seems that if you are a trophy crazed lunatic who wants Arsenal to become as big as United etc you don't love the club. Jeez talk about accepting your position in life!

  48. thatsimonrose

    Apr 13, 2011, 13:51 #5068

    It's entertaining that some people read so much more into what you write and have a go at you based on their assumptions! It's also entertaining that people criticise you for what they think you haven't said! Read my words. I choose them carefully. I can't include every single argument or angle, tha ever has or ever could exist. Arsenal matters. Deeply. Too deeply sometimes. No, I didn't mock Liverpool or their European Cups. Read my words. I was brought up to respect Liverpool & their achievements. No, I am not deluded. Yes I desperately want us to win things again. The Carling Cup Final was agony. Yes Arsenal and Wenger are frustrating but I am not going to have a heart attack over it or confront other fans and nor should anybody else.

  49. no. one is perry groves....

    Apr 13, 2011, 13:05 #5064

    you are right in that we are being fleeced by the club. We pay the most expensive tickets prices in the world but do not see anywher near the investment in the squad that other teams around us make. Fans have every right to feel aggrieved that the considerable investmnet made by them in season tickets has not resulted in an top class squad capable of winning trophies. Arsenal are my team who i will support come what may. I would happily accept being the nearly men or even mediocrity if the ticket prices ticket prices reflected this and the team gave 100% every game. At moment we are treated a lot of the time to lack lastre performances and that is simpley not acceptable for the prices we have to pay.

  50. David

    Apr 13, 2011, 12:58 #5063

    Simon you mock Liverpool for their European cup wins but dont you think it is an absolute disgrace that we have reached just one European cup final in our history.A club that likes to call itself on of the big clubs of Europe has won two less European cups than Porto.Its fans like you who live in this type of dreamworld where Arsenal our the best team in the world.Even though we win nothing.Our greatest moments as Gooners are us winning titles and trophies not finishing top 4 and making huge profits.But under Wenger he seems to think finishing 2nd is good enough it isnt and never will be.This culture of we are happy to finish 2nd and sod the supporters has to end now.And Kroneke has the cheek to appoint the buffon who called us fans stupid as chairman.Something is very wrong at our club

  51. Richard Ansell

    Apr 13, 2011, 12:28 #5062

    I agree with you, Simon, that we should all try to get things in perspective and I too am lucky enough to have a great family and a life beyond Arsenal FC. I have many interests, Arsenal being just one of them, but it is the one that gives the most thrills and grief most of the time in equal measures. Mainly because I have no control over how the club is being run (grief) and you never know how a game is going to end up (thrills or grief). At the moment so many fans like me feel angry because Wenger is making too many mistakes and we are powerless to do anything about it apart from rant on sites like this one. If Arsenal did not stir such intense emotions in me I would not consider myself a proper fan and that is why I am distancing myself from Wenger until he either comes to his senses or is given the order of the boot.

  52. bunch

    Apr 13, 2011, 12:10 #5060

    I like the sentiment. The last few weeks have been utterly miserable from an Arsenal fan's point of view. A switch has been flipped and now I have no faith in Wenger and think the club are taking us all, especially us mugs who pay £1000 a year plus, for a ride. But I need to relax. The title is gone. My only hopes for the rest of the season are: We beat Spurs No embarrasments against lesser teams We don't let Man U win it at our place If the team can do the above, I can reconcile myself to this season not being an utter disaster. Failure and its protest time.

  53. Loyal since 1980

    Apr 13, 2011, 11:25 #5059

    Sorry, but I don't really care about the bank balance of Arsenal, I only care about how many throphies we win, we are 3/4 players away from being a great side, we need a world class 'spine' but that cost money and while AW is there, he will never spend big money, even if we have no debt in five years. Can you imagine some like et'o at Arsenal, yes he will cost you 25-30 million, but he also get you 25-30 goal a season, and that my friend will win you throphies!

  54. Matt

    Apr 13, 2011, 11:24 #5058

    At last some words of wisdom and thought from the Arsenal blogosphere. Yea it is frustrating to miss out on trophies when we appear to be so so close, but let's not forget how fortunate we are and how quickly teams can implode. We have some of the most talented players in the world and, although I think this season is probably out of reach, the new ownership and the new FIFA fair play rulings should bring a huge amount of optimism. Up the Arse!

  55. Stumpy Den

    Apr 13, 2011, 11:15 #5057

    I have followed Arsenal since 1966, I have been through hard times and at times watching boring football. What we have experienced under Arsene since his arrival is more than we expected. Now due to that quick success we expect it each season, yes I agree it is not right that certain players in this squad are not good enough and should go, but there is a bigger picture. We are at the moment 2nd in the league with those sub standard palyers and yet to me the future seems bright. This is my club, I have been here longer than Wenger and past players, I will be here long after he has gone, I will not fight with other Arsenal fans, because we are the Arsenal. Things will get better,read between the lines in Simons article, the club has a bright future and will attract players. Remember WE ARE THE ARSENAL, we have a history and a dignity and we will always be here

  56. Lewis

    Apr 13, 2011, 10:21 #5056

    I agree with the majority of the article. Utd aside there are no clubs I'd see as in a better position than us. We should be a damn sight closer than we are but the glass is half full in my eyes!! AC Milan really big boys?? They are more akin to Liverpool than a current strong competitor, vast history but look at their record since Wenger joined us... 2 league titles, 1 copa italia and 2 champions league's and nothing for four years. I think Wenger's reord compares pretty favourbly with that.

  57. Chris

    Apr 13, 2011, 10:20 #5055

    chris dee - he didn't say he wouldn't rather have Utd's trophy haul, he said he'd rather not have it at the expense of the huge and potentially deadly debt they have been saddled with. If you could wind your wings in a little bit and see a wider perspective from within your trophy-crazed drooling, you'd see that your 'ruthless ambition' might be all very well in the short term but in the midst of a finanacial crisis and with a new stadium to pay for it might have had disasterous consequences!

  58. Tommy

    Apr 13, 2011, 9:55 #5053

    Lets carry on finishing 2nd shall we.Like our mad dictator who wouldnt mind finishing 2nd for the next 20 years.Simon you are deluded.We SHOULD have been champions in 2008 last season and this season but for the stubborness of Wenger.Every Gooner was saying we needed a quality keeper,a brick ****house CB like Vidic and a holding midfielder who can protect the back four unlike Song.The fans who pay the highest ticket prices in the world our being asked to keep their mouths shut and except failure.Well some of us have had enough of what is happening at our club.Fed up with our manager who uses every excuse under the sun but look at himself.This club will not win anything again while Wenger is are manager.No other big club in Europe would put up with 6 years of failure.United's 3rd striker is Hernandez our's is Billy Bender i rest my case m'lud

  59. CD

    Apr 13, 2011, 9:53 #5052

    You mean well Simon, and under normal circumstances you are not too wide of the mark, but you forget that we have already done what you suggest for the previous five years!! Exactly when would you start applying some pressure and proper scrutiny at the way we collapse year in year out come spring time? The hostile reactions and arguments you are now witnessing are as a result of patience having simply run out by a large number of supporters, and can you truly blame us after 6 years now of watching blatantly obvious fault lines that Wenger and the board refuse to address, which is why we are perpetual bridesmaids? I take your point that we should not take it all too seriously, but I feel the anger is caused by the mismanagement that even people like you admit too. Another point is that die hard football fans the world over personal lives are intertwined with their clubs fortunes rightly or wrongly, and hence in our case when we can all see how close we are but for some obvious changes in playing staff and some tactical nous by the manager(let alone paying the highest prices in world football) it explains the pent up anger. Especially when we have to watch a poor Man U side sweep all before them, because they have a manager who ruthlessly pursues number one status, where as we have one whom has stated he is happy to always be number two!!!! This crass statement by Wenger if anything has and will simply add more fuel to the fire, which was well ablaze prior to that admission of him being content with also ran status!! I would rather have a man in charge of team affairs who had the same ruthless attitude SAF has, even if we ended up being as unsuccesful trophy wise, because at least I would know everybody from the players to the manager gave 100% in pursuit of number one status. If you are honest Simon you would have to admit that is not currently the case with some players, and it would now appear the manager. In summary Simon please let us know when if ever you would say enough is enough? As I and many others want our team to be actual winners.

  60. thatsimonrose

    Apr 13, 2011, 9:21 #5049

    Some very funny comments already. I "don't understand" and I'm "an apologist" apparently. Drop your preconceptions, drop your 'anti' attitudes, drop your desire to label others and to be labelled. And then read the blog again. Proof once more that despite people complaining that The Gooner is too negative, if you write something positive people will be negative about it! You are individuals, negotiate your own position. And maybe get your blood pressure checked too.

  61. gabzevo

    Apr 13, 2011, 9:11 #5048

    u brought a tear to my eye beautiful post CANT WE ALL JUST GET A LONG ! OH ITS GOOD TO BEEEEEEEE A GOOONAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!!

  62. Andrew Cohen

    Apr 13, 2011, 9:05 #5047

    A reasonable call for calm. What we are missing is the ability of the board to ever so gently persuade Mr Wenger that the 10% that he gets wrong needs to be addressed and that he needs help to do so. Let's hope that Mr Kronke sees that and has the necessary skills to persuade AW of the need for reform. It won't be easy. Arsenal fans aren't morons. Minor but significant and effective reform is all they are asking for.

  63. chris dee

    Apr 13, 2011, 8:57 #5045

    Here we go again. Apologists coming out with considered soothing words to remind us how lucky we are and that we have never had it so good and so we should be thankful for small mercies. This article obviously passed the Arsene Wenger School of Success propaganda exam with flying colours. Let's see, would we rather have United's failure of 3 League titles F A Cup win ,Carling Cup win a Champions League win in the last 7 years or our success of the last 7 years? Mmmmm ,tough tough choice Simon! Such meek ,fawning, tugging of forlocks attitude such as this article again demonstrate that many supporters are happy to see Arsenal remain as we are.A second tier 'big ' club,always behind the really big boys,Barca,Real Madrid,united Bayern Munich,A C Milan etc. It was,is,and will remain a scandal that Arsenal,the Bank of England Club, once the biggest club in the world has never won the Champions League. We have the fan base, we have the stadium,we have the finances to purchase players,we have our academy to produce players.But we,and I mean the Club and supporters like Simon Rose, don't have the ruthless ambition to take us to the next level. I just hope Enos Stanley Kroenke is the man to do do just that,cause Mr Hill Wood thinks anyone who doesn't agree with the sentiments of this article is 'silly'.

  64. Tayo

    Apr 13, 2011, 8:47 #5044

    I guess the writer here don't understand what Arsenal means to us. It's our identity, our pride, our name and our hope. I believe u need to pity our young supporters between the ages of 1 & 6 who are already committed to the club after us. But unfortunately, we've not given them the joy of victory. We starve them of the pride United & Chelsea parents lavish on their wards. We have now become the unfortunate example of the right club with the wron policy. A laughing stock in the world. Maybe you don't know what winning trophy means financially. I bet you , United's debts will not be remembered in 10 years' time when their trophy shelve is viewed. It's sad you dont understand. Our emotions are tied to it and it's a bitter pill in our mouth. Please consider writing something more appealing like talking sense to Wenger. I bet you, that man is the greatest liar in the committee of coaches. It is well Gunners!

  65. duncanjohnson72

    Apr 13, 2011, 8:26 #5043

    A really well written piece. While I accept that we want silverware - at what cost? It's already been said but what would you rather have - The FA Cup and finish 6th, or no silverware and finish 2nd or 3rd? I would like the Champions League thank you. Not competing in the top competition will mean losing top players and with them will go any real chance of silverware. I do think a few solid additions could be enough but what do you want? A keeper, a centre back and another Song - thats only 3 players out of 11. Man City have spent £M's but are stil behind us... We've been hamstrung by the stadium move - clearly the Club won't come out and say as much - but we are still so close. Pay off those debts and watch the balance move this way... As AW say's - judge him at the end, but for now every single player needs your support on that pitch! The future is bright - it's red and white!

  66. Gooner-in-Provence

    Apr 13, 2011, 7:53 #5042

    ARSENAL..... a brilliant historical saga which seems to touch all human emotions - love and hate, loyalty and treachery, hope and despair..... please let it continue.