Smash and Grab

Online Ed: Arsenal make it five wins out of six



Smash and Grab

Ramsey: Cool head


It was not a game to remember, but a highly satisfactory one nevertheless. Marseille away was a scrappy affair, with both sides guilty of some sloppy play, especially in the first half. However it turned into a pretty decent European away performance by an injury-ravaged Arsenal team, specifically after the interval, when the visitors stepped up a gear and improved their game.

No-one is going to say that all Arsenal’s problems have been solved by this match, but let’s take the positives. A clean sheet. A commanding performance by Laurent Koscielny who seems more suited to playing continental opposition than he does Premier League rivals. I fear for him against Stoke at the weekend when life will be a lot more physical, an area where he has proven vulnerable. Another positive was the way the side largely controlled most of the second half, although Marseille’s few set pieces were always a concern.

With seven points out of nine so far, the situation in Europe looks healthy. Arsenal should concentrate on trying to win the group rather than start to play weakened selections now as Arsène Wenger is wont to do. At least that should avoid Barcelona until the quarter finals at the earliest and the Gunners might even get lucky in the draw.

Results breed confidence and although the team at times still looks short on assurance, perhaps they can gel a little more easily as long as they are winning matches. Stoke on Sunday is a big test and nothing need be said about the following weekend’s visit to Stamford Bridge.

Roy Keane on ITV lambasted Andrey Arshavin for his performance, but it looked like a typical one to me. In a sense, perhaps it symbolizes why Arsenal have slipped behind. Some players, at times, perform like passengers, and a lack of commitment in any area of the team inevitably weakens the overall performance. Still, I guess even Dennis Bergkamp had matches where he appeared very peripheral indeed. It happens, although with Arshavin, it seems to happen a lot, which may explain the manager’s more frequent policy of starting him on the bench these days.

Ramsey’s goal was well taken, although in tighter affairs, the chances enjoyed by Van Persie and Walcott in the second half might have to be converted. The Marseille defending for the winner was straight out of the London Colney training ground, with the scorer enjoying the freedom of Provence. It was coolly finished though, so credit to the Welshman for his composure. As Marseille had defeated both Olympiacos and Dortmund, it made the group look a lot weaker than it did on paper. It was also a shame that, on Arsenal’s first visit to this famous old stadium, one side the ground was empty due to upgrade works. I think the Velodrome looks great as it is, I am uncertain if I will like it as much once there is a roof tagged on.

There is not much more that this observer has to pick out of the game. Going forward, aside from Chelsea away, looking at the fixture list, on paper, the team can build up a bit of confidence if they can beat the teams they should be capable of. However, to do this, the silly mistakes have to be eradicated – and there were a few last night – and the defending at set pieces has to be a lot better. Stoke on Sunday will be an immediate test of the latter.

The current issue of the Gooner will be on sale outside the home games v Stoke and Bolton and can be bought online here

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  1. Viking

    Oct 21, 2011, 21:02 #14430

    Fellas. Santos was poor, a few people have noticed, how can we all be wrong. He just looked off the pace, casual, and didn't seem to care. He improved 2nd half. But I'd play Gibbs ahead of him any day of the week. Santos was a poor panic signing, as were Benayoun, Park and Pers. Ally Bear, spot on mate, Pers is a liability. He looks too slow, makes mistakes, always seems 2nd to the ball, and does not inspire confidence. Kos and TV should be our number 1 pairing. But we need to get Cahill in January. Arshavin is toilet, yet Ramgun and others think he is good, when was the last time he put a shift in, and did something special, or one a man of the match award? Theo just does not have a clue, he gets worse rather than better. Time for Ryo and the Ox to be given a try. On the positive side, Jenks had a solid game, you've gotta love his commitment, heart, and never say attitude, he got Pers out of jail when our German was roasted near the goal in the first half. Yeah, nice one Pers! And why did we buy Park, another bad decision. Well done to Ramsey, took his chance well, celebrated with the fans, and he took a lot of stick for not tracking back versus Spuds. I defended him, as the guy is class, he made 2 key passes in the short time he was on midweek, more than Arshavin did for the entire game. Nice one Rambo, keep it up son.

  2. Andrew Cohen

    Oct 21, 2011, 19:37 #14428

    Ron, I agree with you, and in a properly managed team he would have been slung out in the close season. I don't excuse his behaviour. I only explain it.

  3. RJ

    Oct 21, 2011, 12:56 #14412

    To all those comparing this team to the Invincibles - stop it, stop it, stop it - there is no point. Those days are gone, will never come back - move on. It is like saying "I am miserable because I am not 25 anymore". pointless - I have to accept that I am 44. Move on. 5 wins in 6 is better than 0 wins in 6. And if this is our last season in the CL for some time (which I am beginning to believe it IS NOT) then let's rejoice at every last moment of progress.

  4. The End is Nigh

    Oct 21, 2011, 12:37 #14411

    Gooner Ed are you now accepting the dross we are seeing on the pitch?Was that really why we built the new stadium to watch the likes of Walcott and AA23 who cant put a shift in on £70k a week.For Arshavin and Walcott read Carter and McGoldrick.At nearly every home game there are 10,000 empty seats games on on general sale because we the fans have had enough.And when i see headlines like 5 wins out of 6 i cringe.Wenger has to go now.Mark my words come the new year there will be 20,000 empty seats.There is only so much you can put up with Song giving the ball away,Arteta's sideways passing,Walcotts failure to beat the first man for the thousandth time and AA23 refusing to run.Wenger is laughing at all us picking up his £7m a year.I have seen lots of bad players at Arsenal in my time but they werent pocketing £60k a week,and theres still Diaby to come.I give up

  5. Real Fitness

    Oct 21, 2011, 11:36 #14410

    when i look at Theo and Arshavin i would take Nani, Valencia and of course Young before either of them. I would take Adam Johnson as well and Lennon. Neither of them look strong enough to me to make a proper impact in the EPL or CL. Totally agree Santos also looks overweight, not fit. I think too many Arsenal fans are settling for mediocre alround these days

  6. Tim

    Oct 21, 2011, 10:49 #14408

    Oh c'mon Ed 5 scrappy wins and they were scrappy against very poor opposition and we are supposed to be happy.The Invincibles would have put them games to bed in the first 15 mins.And there lies the problem same manager but rubbish players and no tactics.Who would have believed 7 years ago that we would have such a poor team.The likes of Song Arshavin and Walcott are not good enough we all know it except dopey Wenger.They have had plenty of chances and have blown it.Arshavin is our Tevez while Tevez refuses to come on and play Arshavin goes on the pitch and refuses to play.Walcott gets worse as every game goes by.We dont know how good Chamberlain will be but FFS give hime a run of games to prove himself.He has to be better than Walcott.And if anyone hasnt noticed Barca are 2nd in their group and if AC Milan hold them to a draw in Milan we could get them in the knockout stage again.Maybe we may have a shot at goal this time!! When Arsenal beat a top 5 team then start giving them praise

  7. Ken Dodd

    Oct 21, 2011, 10:29 #14407

    ''By jove,by jove,what a beautiful day to shove Wenger into a cafe full of AMGs and say 'Would you like some French stick with your coffee!' '' :-D

  8. Tony Evans

    Oct 21, 2011, 9:05 #14406

    Mandy - I do really wish I could share your eternal optimism but for me scrappy wins against poor opposition (which let's be honest all 5 wins have been) only serve to convince Wenger he is on the right track. This is one of the poorest Arsenal teams I have known (and believe me I have watched some rubbish in my time) and I am afraid we will soon have the dubious pleasure of joining the Spuds in the Europa sooner than you think. Hope I am wrong but with Wenger pulling the strings I don't think I will be.

  9. Mike

    Oct 21, 2011, 6:42 #14405

    Yet another brilliant hard fought victory, the team had to dig deep this time - 5 wins out of 6 says it all. Top of our Euro group- People returning from injury - onward to Stoke and then to Chelsea by which stage we should be in the top four again. C'mon Arsenal

  10. DW Thomas

    Oct 21, 2011, 4:00 #14404

    A win is a win. But. If Gervinho had controlled that ball like he tried to, would we have scored? We were lucky to beat a team that is not in good form. Is this all we can expect from the Arsenal these days? Too many passengers not doing enough lately. For all the times I have criticized Ramsey, he did finish well and generally works harder than most. I just don't want to start accepting mediocrity. We need 4 points from Stoke and Chelsea to even begin to say we've turned a corner. Let's get back to the top four, for my taste, before we can say that. Rosicky again had a good game and Kos was solid. We just need more solidity at the back, but, I fear that won't come till TV and Sagna are back together with Per full time. We still badly need signings for our offense, strength in depth, and to boost the fans confidence. You can't have a stadium like the Emirates and a wage bill like ours and not buy in January. Wenger needs to change his penny-pinching ways and get Hazard or Gotze, another holding mid or tough defender, and a top striker. No more bargain basement shopping. Hoping for the moon and maybe he'll get at least one. Dream on, dream on, dream on...And please, stop talking about mental strength Arsene or any other nonsense. More discipline is still needed defensively. Our wingers have to be the most ineffective in the world right now. Give OX a shot and I want to see Park as a second striker. Let's give Stoke a rough day at the office this weekend to show we have some mettle again.

  11. Mandy dodd

    Oct 20, 2011, 23:20 #14403

    We won away kept a clean sheet and took control of the group. Not pretty but teams working hard to build confidence and momentum seldom are. How many times have disenchanted fans wanted us to win ugly, a la gg, well now we have done that for a few games, yet still some have a go. Come on, could be worse, we could this week be playing meaningless games on thurs like some I could think of. We win away against the group leaders yet some fans on some forums just focus on internal divisions within arsenal fans, attendance figures at home games,, the form of selective individuals or whatever Some don't know you are born, after all by an unfortunate accident of fate, who knows, you could be fans of the tiny totts. We won, some need to get some joy into your lives, there is more to like out there than akbs, missing out on over priced English players or announcements of attendances at home games. Ok, I am sorry that the fact that we are still in the cl, let alone top of the group does not suit the agenda of some, but that is the reality, get over it, and wenger has announced he is staying another three years, if you support arsenal ,may as well back him cos he is going nowhere

  12. Shaun

    Oct 20, 2011, 20:38 #14401

    Nice to see koscielny get some praise.Reckon he's a top defender just suffered from having different players next to him most weeks.I would like to see him have a good run of games next to tommy but think per is going to get that privilage. On a negative i can't stand seeing the russian putting in zero effort anymore, I've stuck up for him in the past but have given that up now, He's a liability and will not be missed if goes in january!

  13. Competing with Everton and Villa

    Oct 20, 2011, 19:37 #14399

    We have played 3 good teams this season United battered us and the Mickeys and the Spuds beat us comfortably thats all you need to known when you trot out stats like 5 wins out of 6 we are beating rubbish teams.Last night a poor Arsenal beat an even worse team simple as that.I think Marseille were trying to beat our record in Barcelona last season of no shots all game.How the **** does Santos start for Brazil his first touch reminds me of that other Brazilian fat boy we had the Beast.Has Wiggy Arteta got a forward ball?Thong is a brainless idiot,trying to dribble the ball away in his 6 yard box and all those wayward passes.I cant make my mind up who was worse Arshavin for his lack of effort or Walnutt for his lack of skill.Both these wasters should be shown the door.Would Sir Alex put up with them? would he ****.Our stndards really have slipped so low.Worse Arsenal team since the Don Howe dark ages

  14. Peter Wain

    Oct 20, 2011, 19:06 #14398

    I was watching the game thinking it was difficult to believe that an Arsenal player could be that bad but after Walcott I looked at Ashavin and he was worse. Then came Gervinho and he was pants. Our transfer policy really sucks.

  15. HowardL

    Oct 20, 2011, 17:49 #14396

    Give the guys a chance! Still a long way to go but I feel they are starting to look something like a team. Not good but far less a relegation outfit than a couple of weeks ago. If Vermaelen does come back on schedule (and it's a big IF) then maybe a Europa League spot for next season is at least possible.

  16. north bank

    Oct 20, 2011, 16:17 #14394

    a decent result against a poor team. Arshavin is awful rosicky the master at running around alot and not realy contributing to the team ,is it wrong to expect more from two established international captains? perhaps they should take an example from jenkinson half the footballing ability of arshavin and rosicky but one hundred per cent more effort and comitment

  17. ed enough

    Oct 20, 2011, 15:25 #14393

    Reality check....5 wins out of 6 against Shrewsbury, Bolton, olympiakos, Sunderland and Marsellie...Not exactly Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Barcelona is it....I know you can only beat the team in front of you, but it's a bit early to be booking the open-top bus for may isn't it??

  18. Tony Evans

    Oct 20, 2011, 14:29 #14392

    Usually for CL matches I am on the edge of my seat and a last minute winner would have me leaping around the sitting room upsetting the wife and the dog. Not this time though as I know we are so far away from being a serious contender for the CL that I simply can not take us seriously any more in this competition. We are a very average team with a manager that is way past his sell by date and too many players that are not good enough. Take RVP out of the equation and who have we got up front with any quality? Answer obviously nobody. In midfield Arshavin should either be given a chance playing behind RVP or sold and the same goes for Walcott. Our crazy, clueless manager will no doubt continue in his own stubborn way and keep the Ox out of the first team when he should be given more of a chance. In fact there are so many things wrong with the squad / tactics I can't be bothered to list them all. Depressing times and scrappy wins against poor opposition can not hide the truth that we are awful.

  19. CT Gooner

    Oct 20, 2011, 14:27 #14391

    Our same weaknesses were exposed again last night, plenty of possession, but where were the scything passes from midfield? I'm sorry, but Arteta was as anonymous as ever going forward, and Walcot, well enough said. And really, we couldn't have found a better left back in the UK for 6 mil?

  20. Oliver Chessis

    Oct 20, 2011, 14:25 #14390

    I think Koscielny is great when the ball is on the ground. I agree he suffers more with the more arial and physical game he often has to play. As for the goal, my thoughts exactly. We have been letting them in for years now - a mixture of luck (poor cross missed by Gervinho) and poor defending.

  21. IMAC

    Oct 20, 2011, 14:10 #14388

    Can't figure out whether Santos is unfit, slow or untidy with the ball. Maybe a mixture of all three which means will can only look forward to him getting fitter. Anyhow he will prove a liabilty. He looked a bit better in the 2nd half as he seemed to stick to the basics without being clever. Can't understand how he has 20 caps for Brazil and played as recent as the Copa America this summer.

  22. Fozzy

    Oct 20, 2011, 13:57 #14387

    I will save you all from my alternative sense of humour with a full blog. I thought that on this occasion I would give a measured two penneth by riding on the shirt tails of Kevin's piece. I wanted to find out if I was the only blogger who thought that our midfielders (apart from The Ginger Song) had a different game plan to the rest of the team by deliberately starving lone striker Percy. This lot could be described as being Denilsonesque last night, intent on passing the ball in a crab like fashion either sideways or backwards. I have no idea how we managed to win with The Dwarf, Syrup Arteta, Rosicky and Wallnut playing such negative inept footie. Has Wallnut completely forgotten how to pass the ball to a member of the same team? For once, Weng's substitutions worked with Djourou (enforced sub) showing good strength and skill to bang the ball across to eventually find Rambo (inspired sub) to bang the ball home. Well done Rambo for celebrating in front of the watching Gooners in the pouring rain. Gervinho also made a diffreence when he appeared. Marseille were awful but at least they tried to play again, unlike the odious lot who will be visiting The Grove on Sunday.

  23. Danny

    Oct 20, 2011, 12:55 #14384

    We beat the 15th best team in a poor French league.They were a poorer team than us.Move on.When we beat a Utd Citeh Chelsea Spuds and Liverpool then we can talk about turning corners.Yes we have won 5 out of 6 but those 5 wins were all against rubbish teams.

  24. Nick

    Oct 20, 2011, 12:09 #14383

    Djorous a liability at right back? pradeep was watching a different game to me i thought he did well although marselle were very poor going forward walcott and arshavin were passengers AGAIN last night and why did we buy park and chamberlain if were not even going to use them off the bench? and what the hell is the idea of using walcott to stand in front of the keeper at corners hes got as much pyhsical presence as an anorexic flamingo, overall solid dour performance against weak opposition any problems we had were created by ourselves through sloppy passing happy with the result but we need to improve personally id give theo and arshavin the mother of all bollickings to see if theyd respond they should look at young jenkinson he may not be a superstar but at least he TRYS and WORKS hard

  25. Trevor

    Oct 20, 2011, 11:45 #14381

    A very good result.But once again a really poor performance.Lets be honest Marseille were rubbish.Not one shot on target.Kos played well but as you say Kev this was his type of game.Santos had a shocker.How he didnt get a red for that handball after his booking was amazing.Where we are really weak is midfield Song just isnt good enough giving the ball away.I was delighted when we signed Arteta but i have to agree with others that he is just going through the motions,too many Denilson passes!!!.Walcott and Arshavin should give there wages to charity they were a disgrace.If the Ox is good enough he should play his age should come into it.He cant do any worse than Walcott.For him not be even on the bench shows how dumb Wenger is.

  26. allybear

    Oct 20, 2011, 11:40 #14380

    Terrible game from 2 terrible teams&what dreadful football.However a win is always welcome. Two wasters in Arshavin&Walcott&why they are still played is a mystery.This just confirms to me Wenger's ineptitude.Koscielny was very good but Mertesacker is a liability and this will be proved in the next 2 games.

  27. Wenger out now

    Oct 20, 2011, 11:07 #14379

    Positives:We won ugly,We didnt have to rely on Szczesny for a change,Kos and Mert played well.Negatives:Our passing all night was poor,Arteta needs to start proving himself,Walcott where do you start?He brings nothing to the team.And then theres Arshavin fans like nothing more than a trier.Arshavin is not a trier hes a lazy f****r.Its so funny to hear the AKBs praising a one nil win,what next will they realise there was an Arsenal before 1996

  28. Ron

    Oct 20, 2011, 10:44 #14378

    Andrew Cohen Arshavin dispalys all the attributes of a fat little, unfit and over rated player. He should be sold asap. Respect for the boss is not an issue. He gets picked, he wears the Clubs shirt, hes paid an enormous salary (why, ill never know) and he should play to the best of whatever declining talents he still has. What abaout self respect? He shows little of that. His body language looks more dejected and depressed than its ever done. Hes a disgrace. Hes playing with team mates who are working hard for each other, not always in the most productive manner granted and as such should help them and commit to games as they clearly do. If he cant do this, he ought to sling his russian hook and go and work in a garden centre somewhere and pose dejectedly as a garden gnome there, rather than on the pitches of the PL and Europe. 3-4 Million for him would be ideal. Im betting AW would drive him to a new Club himself for that price.

  29. Jekyll

    Oct 20, 2011, 10:42 #14377

    It was a mediocre game by two mediocre teams. Marseille didn't even try - perhaps Deschamps still thinks we're the team of the early noughties - and were there for the taking but if the ball hadn't fortunately broke for Ramsey we'd never have scored. And the silly mistakes won't be eradicated and the set piece defending will not improve - you know, we all know it. This is all negative but the team have declined so much from where they once were I can't help but watch them these days through a prism of frustration, sadness and nostalgia.

  30. Gooner SA

    Oct 20, 2011, 10:28 #14376

    Good win. Jenkinson great and can cross unlike sagna and walcott. Stoke not the same team away as it is at home. Are we really worried about the problems stoke can cause rather than arsenal can? Oh dear.

  31. Chris

    Oct 20, 2011, 10:21 #14374

    Merse69 - not by a long shot. Try looking at Arsenalnewsreview - Myles Palner's review of the match reads like a party politcial broadcast by the Anti-Wenger party. Would defintely be worth reading for the comedy value, if he didn't take himself so seriously....

  32. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Oct 20, 2011, 10:16 #14373

    It was just like the mid - nineties. The Arsenal avoiding a European bore draw with a late away goal, wearing two -tone blue (remember the 94/95 away kit? This isn't the first time), and with four centre backs on the pitch by the end. Couldn't give a toss what Roy Keane thinks about Arshavin, he's madder than Andrei is, and at least Keane's manager played him in his rightful position. Play Arshavin in behind Van Persie as a "no.10" in modern vernacular, and I'll bet we'd see a different player. Arshavin slaughters it for Russia in that role, and even somehow manages to make Pavlyuchenko look half - decent. Sticking him out on the left wing is a waste of everyone's time.

  33. Merse69

    Oct 20, 2011, 9:53 #14371

    The most downbeat view of every performance can be found here. For every positive, there's a negative (at least one, usually more). Even when you win your most difficult away match, the team are clearly playing for each other and the manager, and all three subs combine for the winning goal.... Anyone would think there's an agenda to get Wenger out?

  34. Brigham

    Oct 20, 2011, 9:30 #14370

    It was indeed a bit scrappy, but the old "One-Nil to The Arsenal will do me right now and as you say, winning games breeds confidence. Let us just hope they can put Stoke to the sword on Sunday and then who knows what may happen at the Bridge the following week. Saying all that, Marseille were poor and seemed intent on not getting beat, rather than winning at home! Good to see we scored a goal following someone hanging around at the back post so to speak. We never seem to enough of that and often all our strikers/midfielders are sucked towards the ball. Many goals like the one Aaron got last night are scored that way, hanging back.

  35. Andrew Cohen

    Oct 20, 2011, 9:27 #14369

    Dennis had seasons when he was not on the ball. Arshavin's position is different. He is going through the motions. His is the most extreme form of manifestation of a justified lack of respect for the manager. In Russia, Wenger would have been shot four years ago and Arshavin knows it. Yesterday's game was better, not least from the mental discipline point of view.

  36. What wa the point in leaving Highbury?

    Oct 20, 2011, 9:25 #14368

    What a difference a goal makes!! Just shows how the tightest of margins can effect football. If the ref hadn't played any injury time I'm sure we would all be quite down after the performance last night as both teams looked poor for large periods of the game and never really looked like scoring. It has to be said our play going forward was awful for most of the match. I'm close to washing my hands of Theo. Will he ever get any better? I doubt it, in fact he seems to be going backwards as he shy's away from trying to run full backs more and more. The left hand side saw the two unfittest and most overweight players I have seen under Wenger. The Russian is an absolute disgrace and typifies everything that is wrong with The Arsenal nowdays. Santos is a disaster waiting to happen. The bright parts for me was the keeper and the rest of the back four looked pretty solid. I like Jenkinson when you factor in his previous is only 8 games for Charlton. That is some leap over the course of a summer and looks to have the build and attitude needed to improve. Kos just looks right for European football when the play is in front of him. Merts is better than what we had and is a defender that wants to defend which is a rarity. So overall a big plus for us and wins like this do breed confidence but if you study the quality on show from both teams, Marseille are 15th in the French league, poor game and let's not go over board just yet. Two much much tougher games ahead in the Prem. The worst thing about last night will be the AKB's jumping up and down shouting how we have turned the corner. Not yet by a long way.

  37. Ron

    Oct 20, 2011, 9:23 #14367

    Decent win. Deserved in the end. I think we shall beat Stoke. This team is more physically imposing than it was, albeit more scrappy in its overall play.Wouldnt like to forecast we ll get much from the Bridge, but we do generally play well there and could perhaps nick a point with a fair wind behind us. Not sure Chelsea are that good to be honest, though i admit havent watched them closely or at any length.

  38. HowardL

    Oct 20, 2011, 9:20 #14366

    For now I'm just grateful for the positives

  39. Mark

    Oct 20, 2011, 8:31 #14364

    Bergkamp may have been peripheral at times but when he got the ball he never ever wasted it plus he was a pretty feisty guy quite prepared to put his foot in and compete physically. this current line up cannot compete physically with the better teams. last night was ok but Marseilles aint exactly great right now

  40. Pradeep Kachhala

    Oct 20, 2011, 7:55 #14363

    Fair comments especially on Koscielny - Santos had a few brainfart moments but it creates momentum - any chance Vermaelen will be fit for Chelsea game ? Djorou is a liability at right back by the way

  41. zianga Gunnermad

    May 23, 2011, 7:49 #7339

    You have hit on the head. Arsenal need to concentrate more on trying to find the net more than the endless passing. Wenger should buy a goal getter one who can compliment Van Persies efforts. Straight shooting Drogba, Rooney style.

  42. Richard Ansell

    May 19, 2011, 8:31 #7158

    PPP - Your casual acceptance of the current situation is breath-taking in it's naivety. I think you will find that you are in the minority now - a minority which can not seem to face up to the fact that Wenger is clueless when it comes to the defensive side of the game. There are fundamental flaws with his current squad and he chooses to ignore them. Well most of us have had more than enough of waiting for him to do something and I have worn out my prayer mat long ago. Also as CD says we do not need the type of players you have mentioned (though I will admit a 25 goals a season striker would not go amiss). Please Wenger buy an experienced keeper, some solid defenders and a commanding midfielder. I know they don't grow on trees but at least let us see that you are trying. Or better still leave and let someone else have a go!

  43. HowardL

    May 19, 2011, 8:27 #7157

    We've not heard the 'T' word for some time. That's because Arsenal are no longer in transition - we are on the way down.

  44. Nick

    May 19, 2011, 0:06 #7150

    It's not the system that's wrong per se. It's just the rigidity of playing 433 against all opposition and not adapting to circumstances. RVP could play right wing and Bendtner at centre forward or vice versa, if it's not working it could be changed after 20 minutes but Wenger won't do it.

  45. Theopants Superstar

    May 18, 2011, 19:26 #7147

    Pure Top - very funny. However you forgot to mention that that Jesus fella also has plenty of spirit!! lol.

  46. Highbury Boy

    May 18, 2011, 19:10 #7145

    I see Fozzy's mate (Post 7781) and others always fall into the same trap of believing Wenger doesn't spend his transfer kitty( eg £25m from Adebayor sale). He does. It's a kitty for transfers and wages. He chooses to spend it on wages for long term contracts for mediocre players

  47. CD

    May 18, 2011, 18:14 #7141

    @PPP I would take issue with your comment about AMG's being "a loud minority of fans" as I believe people like you in the AKB camp are now in the overwhelming minority camp! People like you would be on this website after another 20 years of AW coming second, defending him cos you are happy to be second best as your messiah himself has stated this is now his happy to achieve mission. Remember most of us who are now anti Wenger were patient and willing to back Wenger originally, but now after 6 years have had enough of jam tomorrow promises, which never materialize. Just how many more years of Wenger's daft ideas would you be prepared to put up with? Would you ever be prepared to see the light and realize you are backing a serial loser. For f***s sake be realistic, when is Wenger ever going to sign someone like Messi, Ronaldo or even Jesus Christ come to that? More importantly the examples you give are not going to help our achiles heel anyway, which is our s***e defending.

  48. Pure Top

    May 18, 2011, 17:53 #7140

    That fella with the long hair and beard, Jesus Christ, great playa, sublime, he's out of this world. Naw, Wenger never buys players like that.

  49. ppp

    May 18, 2011, 16:40 #7137

    current squad 442 possible line up Fabianksi/Chesney Vermaelan Djourrou Sagna Clichy Song Fabregas Walcott Nasri Bendtner Van Persie It's the best line up you could get currently but effectively means dropping Wilshere for Bendtner which would drive all the AMG numpties up the wall. Let's face it - there's a loud minority of "fans" who despise Wenger and even if he signed Messi, Ronaldo and Jesus Christ himself they wouldn't shut up. Wenger should stick to his guns and see the project through.

  50. Joe

    May 18, 2011, 15:27 #7134

    One benefit of a 2 man front is that more strikers play, and there can be a rotation of strikers. The lone striker formation caused Chamakh's sharpness to rust. If the formation is not changed Arsenal will continue to struggle as the rest of the league has figured out how to play our 433.

  51. thatsimonrose

    May 18, 2011, 13:26 #7128

    CD, it's not so much that my patience has snapped, it's more that the picture and the evidence has built up even more in recent weeks, leaving Wenger with increasingly less ground for not changing. There must be change. His body language during the lap of appreciation was painful. (Also, I get very little abuse!)

  52. thatsimonrose

    May 18, 2011, 13:07 #7127

    You're right Cheshire Gooner, I didn't explain that United bit well. I've changed it. They do vary their formation, but it's always based around their core values.

  53. CD

    May 18, 2011, 13:02 #7126

    Simon am I right in saying that your patience with Wenger has finally snapped? You have in the recent past defended him, and argued with people like me whom are firmly in the anti Wenger camp, which was a brave thing to do as you received some pretty vile abuse, simply for stating your own fully entitled too opinion. I have however noticed though in your last two recent posts that same feeling of anger and frustration that I have suffered from for a while now, when watching Wenger's Arsenal. My patience did snap as I said a while back, it would appear yours has too, or am I misreading the signs?

  54. Cheshire Gooner

    May 18, 2011, 12:51 #7125

    I'm bewildered by the last paragraph about United....Anyone who has watched United more than once this season will know that they don't play 442 every game. They've played 451, 442, 433 - sometimes all in the same match. I agree that Arsenal's 433/451 has failed at times and that we need to adopt a variance of tactics and formations dependent upon the opposition. United are the blueprint for this. Not because they only play one way, but they can play different ways. So, right example made in the article for absolutely, utterly the wrong reason...

  55. RDT 4

    May 18, 2011, 12:36 #7122

    The other day I watched the 'Arsenal official History' DVD that came out around the end of 2003. One bit that stood out for me was an interview with Martin Keown who said something like "He (Wenger) never loses his cool, you never see him ranting and raving from the touchline." I just find it staggering how the one time urbane and erudite Frenchman, who created a reveloution at Arsenal, now seems to be a different person. We watch him go more and more bonkers with every match. I can only put it down to sheer arrogance or maybe his early success went to his head. whatever the reason he needs to go - NOW, so we can start rebuilding for the future.

  56. Richard Ansell

    May 18, 2011, 12:28 #7119

    It really is that simple isn't it? You are right about Manure, it is not rocket science - a good, experienced keeper,a solid back line, a mixture in the middle of ball winners and quick incisive players that can deliver crosses and two or three strikers that know where the goal is. It all sounds so easy on paper, but in reality it must be hard to achieve otherwise every team would be up there challenging for the title. This is where we come to the quality of the manager, the coaching staff and the level of financial resources. We have the money but as for the other two..... well I think we have made our minds up on that after witnessing yet another end of season collapse.

  57. Fozzys mate

    May 18, 2011, 12:28 #7118

    Simon - in my opinion Wenger only went to 433/451 as he did not have the gumption to spend the £25 million received for Adebayor at the end of the 2008/9 season. To do this and rely on the fitness of RVP who has managed an everage of 20 league games per season since his arrival is crazy. 45 succeded in the champions league in 2005/6 and had been tried fleetingly by AW in the prem before the switch last season. 433/451 means tons of posession but often no end product and a turgid and slow passing game in front of the opposition back 4, especially with RVPs tendency to drop deep. In short not using the Adebayor funds to sign a comparable striker is the same as not using the funds generated by the sales of Vieira, Henry, Toure to properly replace those players. This all started with the sale of Vieira when the dreaded phrase internal solutions was first heard.