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1. The Happening

   Nov 23, 2011, 20:43 #15289

   They're all replaceable, the Club lives forever! Viva AFC!

2. Tigergunner

   Nov 23, 2011, 3:30 #15263

   A success or a failure in the last several years, you can’t fault Wenger’s good intentions. I guess he could go for glory and spend 100 million, buy superstars at inflated prices (inflated by the Man C and Chelsea’s of the world) to win a trophy at any cost. And when the club is in deep ****, move on to another club. Yes, we do have this type of mercenary managers around – look at what old Harry did to Portsmouth. The self sustaining model is the responsible model to go if you don’t want to end up like Portsmouth or Leeds. And the youth program seems logical as well to complement the self sustaining model. But Man C and Chelsea have changed the game so much with their financial doping. And I believe Wenger did make a mistake of relying too much on youth but the current squad now has the right balance. As for Gazidis , I would be asking about the progress he is making in bringing in sponsorships and other source of revenue.

3. CanadaGooner

   Nov 22, 2011, 17:24 #15253

   @Rob - It would help if you read comments more carefully: "my beloved hockey"? I've only been in Canada 3 years and I'm only working here. I was born in London and have lived in London all my life - only moved to Canada to work so, not sure where your comments are heading. I have read a few very sensible responses below and I feel the purpose of my article has been nicely justified. Even the Wenger-haters agree that we must do a few things before we begin screaming for Wenger's firing e.g. think of whom to replace him, perhaps get that person in as a trainee first so they can learn? as opposed to doing what the smaller, erratic clubs do (e.g. Blackburn), by firing a manager simply because their stupid fans call for his head (apparently Allardyce wasnt playing exciting football! and they were gonna bring Maradonna in? ha ha ha) and now they're left with a Manager who couldnt manage a herd of cattle if his life depended on it! Arsenal is a more established and intelligent club and I like to think so are the fans too (well, most of us) - we can see that kicking Wenger out without any thought and preparation would be disaterous, but showing our discontent with his stubbornnes and stupid 'Philosophy' has already yielded some results this year as it forced him to buy one or 2 defenders, albeit, jury's still out on some of them. Perhaps channeling our energies again at the close of this season, regardless of how we finish, towards forcing Wenger to buy 2 defensive midfielders, ditch his stupid philosophy and concentrate on football, we might be on the road back to winning some trophies. We've already seen what Tony Adams can do even with some months under Redknapp), it's not such an easy transition from footballer, however good you were, to managing at the top level - so, those mentioning Steve Bauld etc, can dream on.... Arsenal for life!!!!!

4. Tooklander

   Nov 22, 2011, 13:53 #15248

   Arsenal for life or Arsene for life?

5. Mike

   Nov 22, 2011, 12:21 #15243

   Just curious to know - when people refer to the "Glory Days" , when was that exactly - the mid thirties, 1970/71, 1989/90 or between 1998 and 2004? All different periods, all different managers - in between those dates though not too much to talk about in terms of the league championships

6. Ramgun

   Nov 22, 2011, 11:40 #15242

   The Board have zero power. Wenger has total support from Kroenke. The others just make up the number. I refuse to stoop to the insults and nastiness employed by many on both sides of this argument including Canadagooner.

7. Barry

   Nov 22, 2011, 10:59 #15241

   Every manager should be judged on results.At Arsenal its different.He is judged on how much profit the club makes.To go from being one of the greatest teams of all time to also rans in 7 years takes some doing.Yes City have money now but where were they between 2004 and 2009?We have two billionaires as our biggest shareholders richer than Abramovich and the Glaziers.But we keep using the excuse that we cant compete with Chelsea and Man Utd.We can but we dont want to.If Usmanov was part of the board we could offer RVP £200k a week instead of £100k.No manager even Fergie should be unsackable but Wenger is.Wenger should be under pressure to deliver not told he is doing a great job by Gazidis and Kroenke.And our best players continue to leave every summer with RVP next to go he is too good a player to play for a team that wont challenge for the title and the CL he deserves to be a winner

8. bunch

   Nov 22, 2011, 8:43 #15239

   @Canadagooner,in response to the question of who should replace Wenger I'd firstly refer you to Ramgun's comment. I'd never heard of Wenger until he became our manager in 1996. And we are still an attractive challenge for a manager. We are a big club, there's circa £6.5m a year in pay, we have a big stadium and money to spend on players. It really comes down to whether you think AW's the right man for the job. I loved the bloke, was proud that our manager seemed to "know" but I turned following the collapse at the end of last season. After the CCup defeat we were still in our best position going into March for many years, the league was in our hands but he was unable to motivate the team to keep going to win. Once that goes, and let's be honest the same thing happened in the previous season, it doesn't come back. Once the hard games come toward the end of the season, when those at the top and bottom are fighting their hardest, we crumble. It was only when we were confirmed out of the title race that the team put in a performance and beat Man U. That kind of mental weakness comes from the manager. He sets the tone.

9. Mike

   Nov 22, 2011, 8:41 #15238

   @CanadaGooner - I agree 100% with your comments, and I don't think Arsene will be going anywhere soon. Finishing top 4 is a minimum consolation for a big team that does not win any trophies and should be seen as such. We all know that. Chelsea are beginning to wobble despite millions being sunk into the club, and don't forget they ended up with nothing last year. Man utd gave is the biggest hiding in the same way that we gave Chelsea their biggest hiding in EPL history. City thumped Man U 6-1 at OT. It has been one of those seasons.Believe me SAF probably has more say than anyone in Football let alone his board about how Man Utd should be run. Look at City's massive financial loss this year and it doesn't take an accountant to see that they won't be around in five or six years. Arsenal will with or without Wenger as long as they keep going with the same model. Despite the failures that Arsene has signed, he has unearthed as many diamonds - nobody wanted to touch RVP due to disciplinary reasons, and the reasons he is scoring the goals now is due to the formation we are playing - don't write off Theo's and Gerv's contributions to his goals. The team is ok and becoming more stable, however even the back four have yet to play several games as a unit. With Jenkins, Gibbs Sagna and Wilshire back the bench suddenly also looks a lot better. There are no free lunches in the EPL these days and every win should be seen as an achievement. Swansea were all over Man Utd this weekend but they came back with the points. I do believe however that feelers should be going out now if they are going to replace the coach and his assistant. I think that the assistant should come from withing and should be involved already. Also I don't think we are out of the EPL race yet - City are over the hill and far away at the moment, but lets see what happens when the congestion of all the games begin to take toll as it did with us last year.

10. John Ward

    Nov 22, 2011, 8:06 #15237

    The question the AKB's fail to address is where is Wenger taking us.It is not forward.We havent finished in the top 2 since 2005.In the last 6 seasons we have finished 4th four times.That is not good enough.Qualifying for the CL every year is not good enough.The reason why we have fallen backwards is Wengers buys have been poor and his faith in playing average players it took him 5 years to realise Eboue Denilson and Bender were s**t he still hasnt realised it about Diaby though.He is a dictator who wont listen to anyone.Sadly we are stuck with him and we can expect another 3 seasons of the same.As some earlier posts have said Wenger is Gazidis boss not the other way around

11. Daniel Pearce

    Nov 22, 2011, 8:05 #15236

    Wow - a common sense article at last! AJ please do some checking up on Usmanov's background before thinking of this man as a club saviour. Can never forgive Dein for sucking up to such a man.

12. Anna Mary

    Nov 22, 2011, 7:21 #15235

    Well written. Wenger WILL stay. The board won't sack him. The only change needed at Arsenal is Peter Hill-Wood should take a back seat & give the reins to David Dein.

13. Ali

    Nov 22, 2011, 6:52 #15234

    Six (almost seven) years without a trophy, the best we can hope for is finishing in top four, 8-2 suffered worst defeat in 115 years, lost 4-0 lead at Newcastle, lost Carling Cup to a far inferior team, our star players have lost faith in manager and won't renew their contracts, we are absolutely a one man team. Whose fault is this? It is pure mismanagement by Wenger and doesn't have to do anything with youth policy, tight budget, luck, bad pitch, poor refereeing and other crap that Wenger says. Do you still want him to be our manager?

14. Colin

    Nov 22, 2011, 6:38 #15233

    Wenger can stay if we are happy to finish 4th and not win anything but if we have any ambition about us he should be shown the door.For the AKB's to keep banging on about 14 years in a row in the CL is a joke.In those 14 years Utd have WON two CL's and reached two finals.Wenger is the Andy Murray of football reach the top 4 but will never win the big one

15. Ron

    Nov 22, 2011, 0:29 #15231

    Rickthegooner - no. just simply mean that AW isnt going anywhere. Hes got a contract, he honours them. The Club could sack him of course, but wont. Why should they? Whats he done to deserve dismissal? Whos out there to improve on him? Nobody ever suggests a worthwhile candidate. Arsenal sack bosses when its obvious its the end of the road and the Club is in crisis or nigh on close to crisis. We re not even near it. Yes, we re a top Club and in modern day thinking this old 6 year thing hangs heavily. The truth is, its a media/SKY thing thats been wrapped around Wengers neck. We ve gone many years before without trophies. The 6 yr stuff reflects modern day fan intolerance. The struggle this season so far has been humbling for some of the modern day johnny come latelys. Thats a positive. Im pleased about that. AW has many faults and can irritate. What boss doesnt? Ive condemned him many times, but hes the best man for the Arsenal job for sure at the present time and like it or not, hes there until 2014 at least whether you, me or anybody else likes it or not. Why? because hes not done much wrong faced with the Chelsea and Man C era's and the Utd power over the last 7 years.

16. DW Thomas

    Nov 22, 2011, 0:25 #15230

    I don't think anyone can argue AKBs and AMGs all agree...we want to win trophies, plain and simple. No more talk of mental strength or my best team ever though, at least for now. We will never get another Invincibles (hoping City loses soon!). So, does anyone really mind if Arsene stays as long as we win something tangible? I understand the importance of being in the top 4 for financial reasons, but without a trophy going on 7 years, we have lost some of our mojo. However, we can reach old glories again if we invest. The club does not have to go over the top, just keep our best players, get some new ones that really make our team better and don't just fill gaps, and continue to focus on defense as well as scoring. Arsenal can always score 4 or 5 if the finishing is good. But can we maintain a 1 or 2 goal lead against even lower tier teams, let alone teams like City or Liverpool? I know I am no "idiot" when it comes to understanding football in general and this team in particular. I am not filled with "blind, illogical hate" either when I opine that Wenger's days may be over. Illogical is sticking with a manager simply because he was once good. That is like saying we should bring back Pires and let him be our starting wing-mid again. Nonsense! I also do not agree with sacking someone like Ancelloti who won the double the previous season. There is a balance, but critiquing the team and manager is a fan's duty. Especially after an 8-2 loss to United. Just last year we beat them, and then that ridiculous result this season. How on earth you can't be considering a replacement come May if we don't have new silverware (let alone top 4) boggles the mind. Agree AVB is unproven somewhat, but Mourinho, like him or not, is a winner. Only a falling out kept him from winning more with Chelsea. I do like Arsene and rate him highly. But he still has not won the CL, or come close before or since 2006 or league since '04. I believe that is down to his choices in the transfer window and sticking with players who repeatedly showed they weren't good enough. It is a cruel, cruel world sometimes, but that is the world of competitive professional football. The fans will always have a special place in our hearts for AW, but time waits for no man. How patient must we be?

17. too easily pleased

    Nov 22, 2011, 0:19 #15229

    tottenham, liverpool were allowed to get ahead of us on playing side at time when we already knew it may be impossible to overhaul city utd or chelsea. this was treason. afc chose the wrong time to not really improve the squad and now we can only be the 6th best team for next couple of years if not forever

18. Sticks 11

    Nov 21, 2011, 23:27 #15228

    Some people wish Wenger well, but are frustrated that with a little spending we would have won a trophy by now. The players he has put out at times i have been amazed with the results, change each one of those for a £20m replacement and we would not be talking about this at all. What never gets mentioned by the press or the fans is that this all comes down to David Dein not being at the club, a man who would get the players we wanted cheaply before they spent 8 months in the press inflating in price like MVilla, Hazard and many others we have mist out on

19. Rob

    Nov 21, 2011, 23:22 #15227

    "@Rob and @ 'Manager Wanted' Rob - what planet are you from? certainly not EARTH. " CanadaGooner - in answer to your question, the same one as you. Born and bred about five miles from Highbury and a regular of forty years plus - is your answer. Frankly you protest too much and have plainly spent too much time in the wild open spaces of your lovely and scenic but largely soccer free country. I repeat what I said - the Manager, any Manager is an employee of the Club not an Olympian to be elevated above it. Wenger has been a fantastic Manager for us. But I - if not you and those like you - support the Club - not any one player/Manger/Director. When - and it's when not if - he goes, I hope it is on a high and not a low but what counts is the Club first and last. A Manager should be given the chance to manage but must always be answerable to the wider interests of the Club, as personified by the C.E. and the Board. Put another way - if the tail wags the dog, both ultimately suffer. It's even the same for your beloved ice hockey teams who also have Managers but also players and owners, who must make their own decisions as to their respective credibility. There ! I do hope that's not too painful for you to take on board. Let's hope Wenger's final three years brings the success of the first nine and not the failure of the last six.

20. CanadaGooner

    Nov 21, 2011, 22:43 #15226

    @Celine dion - just for the record, I'm currently working in Canada and even so, I have attended 6 matches already this year (flying in from Canada!), so without blowing my own horns, I think that is dedication and a single flight from Canada costs more that a seasons ticket (which I held for several years and went to most games each season). That aside (as I dont need to justify my arsenal-credentials), Arsenal scored goals before Van Persie and in his absence - the current bunch you named will do better if they get more games: they were scoring tons of goals before they got to Arsenal. Even Nasri dried up mid-season in his most prolific season - so you're not making much of a point here. With regards what you said about Wenger pushing harder and being less stubborn, I couldnt agree more, and I've been stating that for weeks too. The whole AKB or 'real fans' bit is something you yourselve have furthered: by stating some folks have never been near the grounds? - so, again, what's your point? For months this website has had piles of wenger-haters going unchallenged and not coming up with any constructive comments, so I think it's about time some people challenge that and comments can get more constructive, as the team needs our support

21. CanadaGooner

    Nov 21, 2011, 22:33 #15225

    @win AFC - just like Villas-Boas is right? ($50M on Torres, another few $80M on 3 other players they bought....). Come on people, apply some commonsense here! Yes, Arsenal need to spend more, but we only need to look at teams who have been spending loads more than us year in year out: Tottenham, Man City, Liverpool and now Chelsea (refer to my opening line above): how come only Man Utd keeps winning? (perhaps same manager for 25 years also helps a little?).

22. celine dion

    Nov 21, 2011, 22:27 #15224

    The point about RVP is entirely valid. Wenger flies by the seat of his pants. He did last year and he's doing it again. The point about Rooney and Messi is a nonsense. United have top quality back up for Rooney (Cicarito Berbatov Owen and Welbeck) and Barcelona have a multitude of excellent midfielders who if they cant exactly replace Messi will do a decent job. Wenger has the invisible Chamakh and the untried Park. Thats what a lot of peoples annoyance at Wenger amounts to. Its not that he's a good manager, one of the best. Who else could get the current team, with all the problems its had and some fairly modest/cheap players, to the position it is in. Its that Wenger repeatedly refuses to push on and hammer home an advantage by backing up vulnerable positions in the squad. This would require money. It will still require money. Perhaps we cant challenge Man City but a top quality striker behind RVP would a) allow him to rest b) allow us to continue to score goals if/when he gets injured. It could be the difference between finishing 6th and finishing 3rd or even 2nd the way the land currently lies. We've been here before and I have absolutely no doubt that come the second half of the season will be there again, however enjoyable the current run might be. The 'real fans do this, real fans dont do that' rhetoric of the AKB is very tired, I am surprised to see it being trotted out again. Half the time it comes from people who dont go anywhere near the ground, and therefore dont have any issue with the high prices paid to listen to a board continually spin and talk itself out of the ordinary and fairly established process of football clubs purchasing new and better players with a chunk of the funds available to it. Like it or not, we did not spend all of the money we could have done over the summer, we still made a profit on transfers, so well though the team is playing, it could still be playing better, and more importantly, be better covered in key positions. It's Wengers complicity in selling the fans short that is still lurking in the background, and dont imagine that it will not resurface.

23. win AFC

    Nov 21, 2011, 22:24 #15223

    @canadagooner. Wenger will not spend the money for top players we all know that. Like it or not we need to compete with the like's of Man city,and who care's if someone from another country takes over the club as long as they have the money and is not scared to spend it. '100% ARSENAL'

24. CanadaGooner

    Nov 21, 2011, 22:14 #15222

    @bunch - i dont recall winning prolifically in Europe before Wenger so, not sure how you can tie our mediocrity in europe to Wenger. What he's done is kept us in it for the $30M you get from being in the CL, if you folks dont want that money, give it to the Evertons of this world. You've made some good points, but in your next comment, kindly shed some light on who will replace wenger, why such person(s) will want to join arsenal (with our $$$ constraints) and how that person will do better than Wenger. Thanks

25. bunch

    Nov 21, 2011, 22:04 #15221

    Canadagooner, thanks for the salute, because I rock up and cheer the team on and want us to win, despite no longer wanting Wenger to be the manager. You'll find its a trait of the AKB cultist that supporting for Arsenal = Supporting Wenger. And I agree that participation in the CL is a must for a big club, but don't kid on that its some kind of awesome adventure for the fans. It ain't. We are really just making up the numbers in not much grander a way than FC Alpoel, Rubin Kazan, Besiktas, Olympiakos, FC Twente etc etc. We're the Everton of the Champions League. Always in it, never gonna win it.

26. CanadaGooner

    Nov 21, 2011, 21:22 #15220

    @Skooner - couldnt help saying your comment was spot-on and very constructive. I am (and have been for the last 6 seasons) equally frustrated with Wenger's "Philosophy", we didnt know we were hiring a Philosopher when Wenger was hired, and he was a football manager for his first few years and did brilliantly, until the 'philosophy' came in and took over his footballing brain! There is no doubt whatsoever that if Wenger can be less stubborn, ditch his silly philosophy and get back to football and sending out teams that can win (and deal with his abysmal defensive record), he is and will remain a great manager. If he sticks with his philosophy, then he can go and serve that somewhere else and perhaps bringing in a new manager and finishing 17th for a couple of season is what Arsenal needs to go forward (crazy, but perhaps true - as a top-4 focused team isnt what arsenal fans want). However, getting behind the team during the season and parking the crappy blind anti-wenger sentiment that's eating a lot of folks on this site up, is what I've been talking about. Good on you Skooner. Over & Out for me, till the next topic.

27. CanadaGooner

    Nov 21, 2011, 20:13 #15219

    why wait for RVP to get injured? Surely one of you idiots can go and break his knees yourselves!? What a load of garbage! Real Arsenal fans wont continue to speculate about their player getting injured. We hope RVP stays injury-free all season and for a long, long time. Rooney, Ronaldo, Messi etc have all carried their teams in the past and others always score when the main player's not playing (and I'm very sure someone was scoring at Arsenal all those years RVP only played a handful of games each season! Otherwise we would have been relegated?). To the chap that says what's the point of raking all this up now? The point is quite simple: Arsenal Fans support Arsenal and we're not here just for Wenger or any other manager. During an ongoing season, we (the reasonable ones) will support the incumbent manager (whoever the heck that it) and give credit where it's due. I find it really bizarre that suddenly every team we beat is a team we should normally beat (but when we were losing to those teams at the start of the season.....). We're now level on points with Chelsea and my neighbour is a Chelsea fan, all he's worried about is how they will gte back on track and not when to sack the manager or labelling other fans as AKBs or that sort of rubbish. It's all well and good that the Wenger-haters, who seem to have forgotten being a fan is supporting arsenal and not the manager, now find it difficult to stomach the past few wins. Get real and sort out your blind hatred - or at least offer up something constructive regarding who you will hire in place of Wenger (and how you intend to hire such folks). That's what the article is about a lot of respect to anyone who goes to the games and cheers arsenal whether you're a wenger-hater or an AKB, I still salute you, and hope we continue to pickup points and that RVP stays injury-free I'm done with this conversation now, feel free to tire into it and call me an AKB or whatever else. Arsenal for life!!!

28. Skooner

    Nov 21, 2011, 20:00 #15218

    I know there are a few people out there who are beyond the point of no return with Wenger but I'm pretty sure most of us that think it's time for him to go would LOVE to be proved wrong and for him to win a trophy and move the club forward. The problem is, I can't see it happening and because of the many false dawns in recent years won't believe it until I see it. Wenger is the greatest manager we ever had, but so was Brian Clough at Forest and that didn't end to well. I don't doubt that if Wenger left the replacement could make things worse, but in my opinion the club just needs a new broom so its a risk worth taking. And it might actually bring the issues to a head with the boards situation. If a new manager comes in and doesn't spend the money that is clearly there then it will demonstrate that they really are withholding funds. If they do make the marquee signings we are looking for then we can presume the issue was at least in part down to Wengers philosophy. Whilst he stays in charge, the fans will be split, the team is likely to tread water and possibly go backwards, we'll in all likelyhood continue to lose star players each summer and replace them with promise and simply be stuck in this never ending circle. I'm under no illusions, Wenger isn't going any where for now so am hoping against hope that he really has learnt something this time, I won't hold my breathe though...

29. Jonesey

    Nov 21, 2011, 19:46 #15217

    The most depressing aspect of this debate is that we've missed the boat. It wouldn't matter if Wenger did actually wake up, smell the coffee and ditch the project now. Man City are sailing off into the distance and won't be caught for years. It's the last 4 wasted years that are the reason I'm reluctant to cut Wenger any slack now. I love Arsenal's self-sustaining model and any trophies won chelsea/city style would leave me cold but even the most cursory look at the club accounts would tell you that the budget Wenger has been working to has been unnecessary and self-imposed. A little ambition and frankly common sense (defensively) in the last 2 january transfer windows would surely have earned at least 1 title. And if the team really did contain players of the character and mental strength that Wenger constantly espouses then 3 titles in the last 4 years would have been a real possibility. The most frustrating thing is that it seems to take Wenger longer to identify the problems than the fans, we end up with players like Almunia, Denilson, Squillaci and Djourou far longer than we should, and once again our chance is gone. I've also never understood why he is so lauded for our regular champions league qualification as it seems to me self-perpetuating considering how much money is paid to clubs in the group stage (even if he doesn't spend all of it). But Kroenke won't sack him and Wenger has played the sympathy card with our more gullible fans with his L'Equipe interview so I guess we're treading water for least a couple of years until he leaves and a new manager arrives (don't be scared Arsene fans)who won't think it will compromise his integrity by actually using all the financial resources available to him.

30. Peter Wain

    Nov 21, 2011, 19:42 #15216

    you are just as guilty as those of us who want Wenger to consider his position at the end of the season. The frace of the last transfer window will live long in my memory as well as the clubs inability to attarct top quality players. Mertsacker is not a top top centre half not is Santos a good left back. Just becuase we have won games against teams we should expect to beat does not hide this fact. An injury to RVP and we would be down again. We have to buy at leaset one top striker and midfield player in January.

31. celine dion

    Nov 21, 2011, 19:14 #15215

    Theres been literally no talk like this around the club for weeks, its been refreshing and pleasant to be at Arsenal again. Whats the point of dredging up a load of confrontation when there isnt the need for any. Wengers made mistakes, lots of them. All the signs are, albeit with dramatically reduced expectations that have been cleverly engineered by the board, that Wenger is the best man for the job. You dont get a special Arsenal supporters badge for saying 'I told you so'. And guess what, if Van Persie gets injured, Wenger'll probably be caught with his pants down again. But that hasnt happened, so I really dont see the point of this piece of writing.

32. What was the point in leaving Highbury?

    Nov 21, 2011, 18:59 #15214

    Canada goner, so after supporting arsenal for thirty years going home and away I'm an idiot for holding a manager who has all the power possible accountable for not winning anything for seven years? Or maybe I stand corrected and he did in fact sign the likes of seaman, known, Adams etc? Or maybe the players who have consistently left arsenal under wenger are all wrong as well and you are definatly correct because we are now seventh!!!! Akbs, strange bunch, a couple of wins and all of a sudden they can start worshipping their Demi god again, how life changed for them in 1997 when arsenal was formed.

33. Danny

    Nov 21, 2011, 18:48 #15213

    Wenger is like Teflon nothing sticks.As others before me have said when we lose its not Wengers fault its the boards but when we win a few games its all down to Wenger.Gazidis didnt pick rubbish like Eboue Diaby Almunia Squillaci Silvestre Flappy Vela and Bendtner over the last 6 years did he.I was a big Wenger fan but i can see his time is up.14 years of CL football to get knocked out by the first decent team we play every season

34. CanadaGooner

    Nov 21, 2011, 18:44 #15212

    ha ha! bet bunch & martin are one and the same. so, you'd rather we didnt qualify for CL because the group stages are boring? you need both your heads examined. From a financial perspective only, anyone with an iota of commonsense would know CL boring or not, is a must for any big club

35. Martin

    Nov 21, 2011, 18:26 #15211

    I had to check it wasnt April 1st as i laughed my way through this typical bull**** article from a deluded AKB.No one can manage Arsenal other than Wenger.The club will fall apart if he ever left.The AKB's conveniently forget that in the decade before Wenger arrived an Arsenal manager won 6 trophies in 8 years.No one is bigger than the club Champman Graham Bergkamp Henry and now Wenger.And to say no one can replace him is pathetic rubbish.What will the AKB's do if Wenger leaves will they all jump off Beechy Head?

36. bunch

    Nov 21, 2011, 18:11 #15210

    "Joy and excitement" of watching CL games? You are joking, right. CL group games are 80% ****. Either cagey turgid bores or complete walk overs both with **** atmosphere (and large numbers of empty seats). And basically we all know we haven't a hope of winning it because we'll eventually come up against Barca or Man U or Real or Bayern who will do us over 2 legs. Granted, the win against Barca last season was good but ultimately (and predictably) fruitless. And who can forget our last CL semi-final? Another AKB fantasy that CL football is valuable to the fans. I wish it wasn't on the the Season Ticket cause I'd happily swerve the group games.

37. Rickthegooner

    Nov 21, 2011, 18:02 #15209

    Ron post 18650 What never !!!!! Wenger will never leave ?? Or do you mean that you set the agenda for when we can discuss the options.

38. Ron

    Nov 21, 2011, 17:33 #15208

    Academic debate. Arsene Wenger's going nowhere.

39. CanadaGooner

    Nov 21, 2011, 17:30 #15207

    @Ramgun - you obviously cant read: I dont think only Wenger can manage Arsenal (I've been an Arsenal fan before Wenger and will be after Wenger). Anyone who reads any of my comments on here will know quite well that I am very consistent in agreeing that Wenger wont be at Arsenal forever, and he hasnt been at his best for a long time as he's too stubborn. But will the current structure we have (compared to the big spenders) and the work that will need to be done to successfully switch to a new manager if need be, I expect people who are not 'idiots' to tell us how they will do it, before crying out for Wenger's removal. If that isnt a sensible, reasonable thing to say, then, I dont think my time is well spent arguing with you. @ win AFC - manchester united have gone for several seasons without a domestic trophy in the past (before ferguson) and they may yet face that situation again soon, after ferguson (he wont be there for another 25 years!), so calm down. Yes, Arsenal have become a very big club and expectations are very high, but we also have to temper that with the reality of what we spend and what others have been spending (and whether or not we want to be the next club to be owned by a Russian or middle east business man)

40. Jekyll

    Nov 21, 2011, 17:10 #15206

    What's noticeable with a lot of fans is that when things go wrong the board are blamed, but when we do better Wenger gets all the credit. The club and Wenger himself have said that he's given a budget for wages and transfers. We have one of the highest wages bills in the country but Wenger chooses to divvy it up in such a way that the youth and 'lesser' players get above their market worth wages and the top players below, in the interests of 'squad harmony'. We've saw the consequences of that most clearly over the summer with who left and who either didn't or just went on loan. With a wage bill of that size, of course Wenger could pay the top wages, by simply paying lesser players less - why would the board care how he divides up the overall amount? He could do it if his wage structure was less 'fair'.

41. allybear

    Nov 21, 2011, 16:58 #15205

    Really enjoyed all these articles.As was said before at some stage Wenger will leave&a replacement brought in.I agree that Wenger is a dictator and is shown too much respect.I dont agree that a queue of clubs would be waiting on him and would they be prepared to pay him 7million?He has(had)a huge reputation but is clueless about defencive play.What about his signing of the BFG?

42. CanadaGooner

    Nov 21, 2011, 16:35 #15204

    @Rob and @ 'Manager Wanted' Rob - what planet are you from? certainly not EARTH. Gazidis should be Wenger's Boss? - is it not bad enough as it is with Gazidis saying "Arsenal have a model that will work even if we dont make the champions league"! A guy who says something liek that hasno business in football. He obviously doesnt think Arsenal Fans count for anything! He doesnt think the joy and excitement fans get from watching chapions league matches and travelling to europe to watch the club they love counts for anything! All he understands is the finances and his stupid 'model'! Wenger on the other hand has kept Arsenal in Europe for the past 14 years CONSECUTIVELY, so: ACTIONS SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS? I am NOT an AKB (whatever the heck that is!), and couldnt care less about Wenger as a person, but as a football manager and given the circumstances he has had to face (with clubs like Leeds speading mindlessly and going from Champions League Semi-Finals to League 1: I'm sure some of you Wenger-haters would be happy to play S****horpe in 2014 wouldnt ya?). Only a fool would assume Wenger reporting to or taking leads from Gazidis would be something to even talk about Manager Wanted - your comments show a stack lack of footballing knowledge that I think almost anyone on this site and anyone in football would agree with. The buck doesnt stop with any manager as far as modern day football goes - the dynamics are such that the bean-counters have the say: you either buy players or build a new stadium or buy players in a crazy fashion like Leeds and end up in League 1 - the only other option is to find a Russian or Arab billionaire who can spend without any issues (and when he's fedup with his new toy, leaves the club with billions in debt - which is where Chelsea and Man City will end up sooner or later: handful of trophies, but back in League 1 when powers change in Russia or Dubai and their benefactor's out of favour). If you know anything at all about football, you'll comeup with a logical comment and tell us who you intend to hire when you've fired Wenger, and how you intend to get that person to Arsenal (given he/she wont have any money to spend), and then you tell me how that person will do better than what we currently have! Arsenal for life!!!!!

43. bunch

    Nov 21, 2011, 16:33 #15203

    Interesting how the AKB cultists paint Gazidis as the figure of evil holding back their god. Maybe there is some truth in it, the body language has looked strained at times despite Ivan's words of support for AW. There is such a massive split in Arsenal fans now. The AKBs see a few wins and think they've won the argument. I love the fact we have won these games, espcially the one at Chelsea, but I still see the past 6 years of failure and the fact that we have been here (actually better than here) before and still collapsed to abject humiliating failure.

44. Ramgun

    Nov 21, 2011, 16:18 #15202

    Well, Canadagooner, it is lucky that you weren't in control in 1996 or the risk taken in employing Arsene Wenger would never have been considered! If you are going to call people idiots for having different opinions to you I suggest you stop putting the daft line that only Wenger can manage Arsenal. Many can do the job, some better than others. A few could do the job as well as Wenger did it for the first half of his tenure and many more could do the job better than Wenger has over the second half of his tenure.

45. Mandy Dodd

    Nov 21, 2011, 16:04 #15201

    Jason, I have no real idea how much Wenger earns, but I have heard some suggest a figure in line with what you suggest. But my point, this board will try and reduce costs, especially wages , as Wenger is finding out. It is looking more and more like there is transfer fee money, but a very strict wage cap. Whatever Wenger earns, I would not expect them to match anything like this wage for his successor, any more that Cescs wage plus bonus would be matched for a replacement.

46. Matty S

    Nov 21, 2011, 15:26 #15200

    Wenger is neither infallible or irreplaceable. But he wasn't voted manager of the decade for nothing. He revolutionized English football. He can be stubborn, but then so are SAF and Mourinho, two of the best coaches in the world. Personally, I'd love Wenger to sta as youth team manager or scout once he retires from the post (i dont think he'l be sacked) and I'd love another young manager to take the reigns (Unai Emery for example)

47. Harold

    Nov 21, 2011, 14:57 #15199

    Mandy Dodd- Maybe if Wenger didn't think wasters like Denilson, Bendtner, Vela, Diaby, Chamakh, Eboue, Almunia and Squillaci deserved big fat long-term contracts then maybe we'd be able to pay Van Persie what he's worth. Just a thought, but of course Arsene knows, eh? And do you think the board forced Wenger to make a £20m transfer profit in the summer? It would be nice and easy for everyone to get together and blame Kroenke for the underinvestment in the team, but the unpalatable truth is that Wenger runs the show and calls the shots. It's been his cheap and cheerful project in the last 3 years despite us being on a very sound financial footing, and it's failed. Some though, like yourself, will never hold him accountable.

48. win AFC

    Nov 21, 2011, 14:21 #15198

    Sooner or latter Wenger will be replaced,I think a lot depends on this season. Winning a trophy will count for a lot and i think Arsenal will win a trophy this season.You mention Man utd they won't sack SIR Alex he as been very successful.Unlike Everton and MR Moyes there not exactly in Arsenal's class are they. The point being Arsenal are a massive club and a lot is expected. Can you imagine Man utd six years with out a trophy would they still have Sir Alex there i think NOT. 'ARSENAL FOR EVER'

49. Shaun

    Nov 21, 2011, 13:55 #15196

    Why don't we get someone on the bench with Arsene learning the trade with a view to taking over before its to late? Might get a nice blend of Wenger football with some fresh ideas from the new man. Bouldy anyone? Promote from within and we might still keep some Arsenal spirit in the club!

50. Jason

    Nov 21, 2011, 12:38 #15193

    MandyDodd how wrong can you be about the board would rather have a cheap manager instead of a top class manager on big wages.Do you know how much we pay Wenger?I'll remind you £7m a year.More than Ferguson

51. Rob

    Nov 21, 2011, 12:35 #15192

    You miss the point. Gazedis should be Wenger's boss but in reality it is the other way around. That is wrong as Wenger should not be in a position to choose his boss any more than anyone else should for the greater good of the Company concerned. By 2014 - Wenger's likely departure date - there will be plenty of options not the least of which is Bouldy. But whoever comes in should be an employee of the Club and answerable to the CE and the Board not put on a pedestal, elevated above the CE, above the Board and above the Club.

52. Rickthegooner

    Nov 21, 2011, 12:22 #15191

    Totally agree. Another good article from the Doom & Gloom Mag !!! Wenger has made his mistakes. Trusting players to be loyal simply because he is for example. I believe though, that he really loves the club. I believe however deluded some of his policies are, they are made ( in his eyes ) for the good of the club. Who will come in after he has gone, with that much love for the club ???? We could just get a huge ego in, which needs to be fed, for his good not the clubs. I am not a AKB merchant, but he does care !!! He has been loyal !!! Let's see some real candidates, with real potential put their names into the hat, before we throw the baby out with the bathwater !!!!!

53. Manager Wanted

    Nov 21, 2011, 12:09 #15190

    Who buys the players?Who picks the team?The manager.We have gone 6 years without a trophy.That is down to mistakes by Wenger.We could and maybe should have won the title in 3 out of 6 of those season.Definately in 08 and last season.But he put his faith in project youth.Instead of buying experienced winners.And as we all saw with collapsed with a wimper come March.The buck stops with Wenger.Now we have the AKB's telling us how great a manager Wenger would be if he got us into the top 4 after the nightmare start.Remind me who was to blame for the nightmare start?No Wenger is passed his sell by date.While Fergie has got better Wenger has stagnated.Out of the dealine day panic signings who has been a success only Arteta i would say.Santos and Mertesacker have been poor Benayoun and Park are just bit players.No its time for Wenger to go he was a great manager no doubt but that is history.We should be a team whose manager has higher expectations than to finish 4th

54. Laurent Penalty taker

    Nov 21, 2011, 11:40 #15188

    Thanks for writting that piece.I don't have to write mine.

55. mark from aylesbury

    Nov 21, 2011, 11:28 #15187

    If your slating gazidis it was wenger that had the final say so in bringing him in. Wenger will go at some time so you'd better get used to it. Personally I think the board needs to state its intention that we are in the business to win competitions. Simple as that, Wenger can then carry out his aims and sadly if that does not coincide with success on the field then off to PSG. By the way will you give a new manager 7 years to win a trophy?

56. dd-m

    Nov 21, 2011, 11:27 #15186

    Right on the nail, but the haters are still cynical, now they are talking about RVP and Walcott leaving, they always have bad things to pray ad hope for Arsenal?! AW is GOD! Simples!

57. Jekyll

    Nov 21, 2011, 11:27 #15185

    Gazidis is perfectly sane - he keeps his head down, picks up his £2m a year. He has no real power, just sort of sits between Wenger and Kroenke. £2m a year for saying what amounts to nothing and doing not much more, or so it seems from the outside - not a bad gig at all. Wenger on the other hand demonstrates some signs of madness, such as repeating the same mistakes over and over, but is very talented and works very hard. Personally, if we have another end of season collapse I can't see how Wenger's position would be tenable, and he himself seems to be making noises in that direction, but I'd agree with the author in that I don't think Gazidis has the capability to choose a decent successor.

58. Claude, Johanessburg, South Africa.

    Nov 21, 2011, 11:14 #15184

    Gazidis has got to fired, he is chaotic, weak and incompitent. I'm in total agreement with the article on keeping cool heads and addressing what is actually wrong instead of being superficial. Wenger is still a top class manager and needs a top class board behind him to proppel us back to the top.

59. Mandy Dodd

    Nov 21, 2011, 10:41 #15182

    A lot of truth in there - just who would this board bring in his place , and what financial restrictions would be placed on them? I cannot tell you an exact answer but I could make some educated guesses and none of the outcomes in my head at least are especially attractive. I am starting to hear more and more that Wenger is at loggerheads with some of the board over the clubs restrictive wage policy undoing all his good work, hearsay - maybe, but some events this summer add weight to this. This board believe the club can compete on a sustainable model/ on the cheap - *delete as appropriate* their next appointment will be somebody who fits this bill. I am not saying they are wrong in this climate either. Rule out Ancelotti / Guardoila etc as future managers of this club, I honestly think the board would rather have an O'Leary or Curbishley than a big name manager who will demand big wages, a big back room staff and big players. Some would settle for O Neil, Moyes, Coyle - what have they ever achieved that Wenger has not? Some may dream of Usmanov coming in with the cash to compete against the petro dollar, but for now, that is not going to happen. The way the club is run, Wenger is our best bet, if anyone can get this board to up wages for the very top players, Wenger and his thinly veiled threats just might stand a chance.

60. aj

    Nov 21, 2011, 10:34 #15181

    Fair point about the ineptitude of the board but the reason there is no backroom in place is because Wenger is a dictator.I've been impressed with the way he has stepped up lately when he was under extreme pressure but it look lots of fans on sites like this and the media to shake him into getting his finger out. Like you,I have no faith that this board could get the right replacement but don't underestimate the pull for any manager to come to Arsenal.Our potential is huge, especially if Usmanov was allowed to get involved.