What stops Arsène Wenger from being a truly great manager

Is Le Boss guilty of resting on his laurels?



What stops Arsène Wenger from being a truly great manager

Good but not great?


Arsène Wenger is a good manager. There was a time when he was a very good manager. Some may argue that he is a great manager. Certainly he is one of the Arsenal’s greatest-ever managers. To say he is the Arsenal’s GREATEST ever manager is almost disrespectful to the likes of Herbert Chapman and George Graham, great managers for the Arsenal in their own right. In my mind, only those who know very little history of the game would make such a statement. I am, however, happy to be corrected on that theory. I’m not convinced that he is one of the greatest managers of all time, though. Wenger certainly deserves credit for his overall outstanding contribution to the Arsenal and English football since his arrival in 1996. From the changing of the playing style, to overhauling the youth system, the trophies and the training ground, used at times by the England national team and Barcelona for their 2011 European Cup final against Manchester United, Wenger deserves a major pat on the back.

But what are the things that make a manager great? Many things, as we know, do. The so-called experts and pundits claim that the hallmark of a great manager is that he wins back-to-back titles and/or a European trophy, especially the European Cup. Sadly, Wenger can’t claim to have achieved any of these feats. True, he is one of two managers in English football to have won the League and FA Cup double twice or more, and he can point to winning the 2003/04 Premier League title unbeaten. But he has never backed up those great triumphs by landing Europe’s ultimate prize. And you get the feeling that his time to achieve true greatness may have passed him by. Back-to-back titles could also have been achieved if he hadn’t rest on his laurels after each of his three title wins. When the championship trophy is lifted and the medals are handed out, the great managers start planning for the next season. Wenger seems to dwell on his triumphs for too long, and is often slow to stay ahead of the game (no pun intended).

What has stopped Wenger from being a truly great manager? His reluctance to adapt and evolve in the constantly changing times in football is one thing. Whereas Sir Alex Ferguson has constantly refreshed his coaching staff to bring in new ideas and methods (some of those changes enforced, like the constant stream of No.2s leaving for pastures new), Wenger, on the other hand, has not changed his first-team coaching staff since his arrival back in 1996. Convincing Pat Rice to continue as assistant manager for this season when it’s clear to all that Rice wants to retire tells its own story. According to Sol Campbell, Wenger doesn’t like being challenged on the training ground. That’s why I’ve been specific that Rice’s successor must be strong and tactically-aware. Someone to tell Wenger that always playing high defensive lines is not always clever and to show him how to combat the threats of players who hurt us every season, such as Didier Drogba and Wayne Rooney.

Wenger’s unflinching faith towards players who have let him down at times has also been his undoing. Philippe Senderos was mauled by Drogba in two Chelsea v Arsenal encounters in August, 2005. From then on, with Senderos it was inconsistency. The penny finally dropped on Wenger after Senderos endured a torrid time against Liverpool in a European Cup encounter at Anfield in April, 2008. Some of the greatest managers know when to move players on, even if they are great players. When Bob Paisley (more on him later) masterminded Liverpool’s first European Cup win in Rome against German champions Borussia Mönchengladbach in 1977, two of the players he started with that night were long-time Anfield stalwarts, Ian Callaghan, Liverpool’s record appearance-holder, and one-time title-winning skipper, Tommy Smith, scorer of Liverpool’s second goal that night in 3-1 win. But when they retained the trophy a year later against Belgian club FC Bruges at Wembley, Messrs Callaghan and Smith were replaced with Graeme Souness and Alan Hansen, both of whom would go on to forge successful Liverpool careers themselves, especially as captains. Sir Alex Ferguson has never shown sentiment to any of his players too, no matter how great they were. Just ask the likes of McGrath, Ince, Beckham and even Roy Keane.

Trophy-wise and to his credit, Wenger has been successful. But, compared to the truly great managers, not as successful. Certainly his failure so far to win a UEFA trophy is a horrible black mark on his career, and the fact that he is the only manager to have lost all three UEFA finals is a stain he doesn’t deserve. Would you really put Wenger in the same bracket as European Cup-winning managers such as Ferguson, Paisley, Clough, Stein et al? Some great managers have gone lengthy periods without trophies, but there are valid reasons for this. At Liverpool, Bill Shankly didn’t see any trophies at all for seven years between the title-win of 1966 and the title (at our expense) and UEFA Cup double of 1973. But this was because of his rebuilding process. A shock FA Cup Third Round exit at the hands of Second Division Watford in 1970 prompted Shankly belatedly to break up his great 1960s side. His assistant at the time, Bob Paisley, thought it should have been done two years earlier.

Sir Matt Busby and Brian Clough had similar droughts too, though with Busby he could be excused. So far, Wenger is seven years and counting without a trophy, not for the want of trying (sometimes). It’s the Arsenal’s longest lean spell without silverware since 1979-87 and is the longest that any manager of the club has overseen. And there have been too many excuses to boot. Injuries, bad refereeing-decisions, petro-dollar-filled clubs to name but a few. The 2007/08 Premier League title was ours for the taking but a poor reaction to Eduardo’s injury saw that challenge collapse. And what excuses were there for losing the 2011 League Cup final to relegation-fodder Birmingham City? Wenger’s apologists would argue that he is overseeing a transitional period. But do they really last at least five years? One reason for his constant rebuilding of ‘new’ teams is that he constantly loses players for a variety of reasons. Some of them some lose faith in him. And could you blame them? The truly great managers successfully evolve one great team to another.

Wenger’s defenders will claim the Double triumphs, the unbeaten title and consistently finishing in the top four make him a great manager. Greater than Brian Clough, who took not one but two medium-sized East Midlands clubs from Second Division obscurity to English champions and, in the case of Nottingham Forest, back-to-back European champions? Or Sir Matt Busby, who in the ten years after losing half of a great team to an aviation disaster in 1958, won the FA Cup, two First Division titles and, ultimately, the European Cup on English soil with three of the world’s greatest-ever players in Best, Law and Charlton? What about Sir Alex Ferguson’s achievements at Aberdeen? He ruled his own homeland, landed the European Cup-Winners Cup against Real Madrid and put the frighteners on the Old Firm, especially former club Rangers.

My favourite manager ever is Bob Paisley. Criminally never knighted, in nine seasons as Liverpool manager between 1974-83, Paisley could point to six league titles (three times back-to-back) and three European Cups, including back-to-back triumphs in 1977 and 1978, in an era when to be champions of Europe, you HAD to win your league, and when European draws were random, unlike the seeding and country-protection you get today. Wenger’s consistent ability to finish in the top four would look better if there were a couple of trophies along the way. Finishing second, third or fourth to qualify for the European Cup should never ever be recognised as a ‘trophy’. Wenger’s European Cup record is not as great as some would make out either. True, he has reached a final and another semi-final (in which we completely embarrassed ourselves). However, in fourteen consecutive seasons of European Cup football, Wenger has overseen four group-stage exits (one of which led to a UEFA Cup final defeat to Galatasaray, the only Turkish club to have won a UEFA trophy) and has been knocked out of the round of sixteen four times. Not exactly the hallmark of greatness here.

Arsène Wenger can still achieve true greatness if he learns to adapt and evolve. If recent history has taught us anything, he is reluctant to do this. Personally I don’t think he will, because he is too stubborn in his ways, but I hope I’m wrong. Failure to do this could lead to a few regrets, and those who are critical of him would make their opinions known with greater aggression. Certainly, Wenger’s overall managerial record makes a mockery of media darlings such as Allardyce, Pulis and especially Redknapp, who between them have won one major trophy and have finished no higher than fourth in the top flight. Up The Arsenal!


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  1. Wombledin

    Apr 28, 2012, 10:07 #21689

    I'm so sick of hearing about Arsene Wenger and whether he's good or bad or great or will stay the same or whatever. Just so thoroughly bored with the man, who can't even win us the Carling Cup. When is this Club going to be about Arsenal F.C. and not Arsene f*cking Wenger anymore. This Club is frozen in time, its become Arsene F.C. I'd like to punch in the head every fan who say Arsene Wenger is Arsenal.

  2. Sam

    Apr 27, 2012, 17:40 #21687

    AW's reaction (quoted from Guardian) to Pep's quitting Barca is v interesting in that it shows how he thinks, reacts to pressure and lack of success/failure - the latter is ok if your 'philosophy' is right. Also shows that he is untouchable in the Arsenal manager's role, so debating whether he should stay or go seems to be pointless, as he's decided to stay and the Board are happy with that. In my view, he was a very good, transformative manager who is now past his sell by date and is dragging our club backwards, with a bloated squad with far too many mediocre players, even given the wages constraints. I don't believe we can challenge for any important trophy under Wenger and he's complacent, showing a lack of ambition and realism. I believe he genuinely doesn't understand the opposition to him as routinely overrates ordinary players. Guardian: "Guardiola's friend, the Arsenal manager, Arsène Wenger, said he was surprised by the Barça coach's decision: "It comes as a surprise to me because first of all when you make a decision after a big disappointment like he has had in the past week, it may not be the right moment to make this decision. The philosophy of Barcelona has to be bigger than winning or losing a championship. Guardiola is one of the representatives of this philosophy and made this philosophy triumph so I would have loved him, even going through a disappointing year, to stay and come back and insist with his philosophy. That would be interesting." On the pressure Guardiola faced, Wenger was sympathetic. "Believe me, if somebody can understand that it's me," he said. "I can understand there are not many managers who work throughout a career without a breather. Maybe he has not shown the stress. Maybe it's taken more than he has shown. You never know from the outside how deeply a man suffers from the inside. I have heard he has come out and wants to have a break to reflect on the situation, which you can understand after a certain time. I decided the other way to never come out of a job, because it becomes second nature to cope with it. It becomes your life. Some people need to move out at some stage."

  3. Mark

    Apr 27, 2012, 12:51 #21678

    Fantastic analysis and commentary. Really thought provoking. The really sad thing about all this is how a very good manager (not a "Great") is consistently undermining his achievements through an arrogance that knows no bounds. The truly great managers know when they've made an error of judgement and embrace change when it benefits the club as a whole. Wenger shows too much loyalty to everyone and everything except Arsenal as a football club that exists above and beyond players and loyalty to individual personnel.

  4. Stephen

    Apr 27, 2012, 12:21 #21676

    The grass is always greener! He has brought a huge amount of stability to the club and has developed it in a way undreamt of when he first arrived. The alternative of finding a replacement and all the uncertainties that would bring, fill me with fear. The number of good managers out there seems so small, and whenever one goes, the same failed names crop up.His weakness does seem his loyalty, and his inability to sort out defences, or at least employ good outspoken defensive coaches. His good fortune was the defence he inherited which allowed him to build on what he was good at, ie attack. Pat Rice has had a season too many and the team at times cries out for a plan B. Mind you so does Barcelona from what I have seen these last two weeks! Yes, he needs new strong coaches, but he has achieved an enormous amount and now needs proper backing from the Board. We are not far off! Bring in another centre half (? the guy at Montpellier),M'Villa, Podolski, Wilshere.Then sell Walcott this summer whilst he still has some value, keep RVP ( or buy another world class stricker) and I think we will be winners again. on the money)

  5. Gman

    Apr 27, 2012, 11:12 #21673

    Friday the 27th, just heard Pep Guardiola is leaving Barcelona in the summer. Perfect timing to sack Wenger or let him resign, and the board to make a new appointment?

  6. Carlos

    Apr 27, 2012, 10:51 #21672

    Great for 7/8 seasons. Mediocre for the rest of his time. He has become far too comfortable and doesn't seem to push either himself or his team.

  7. Gooner S

    Apr 27, 2012, 9:14 #21671

    Arsene Wenger....Arsenal's greatest manger ever. Period. Perfect? No! Has he made mistakes? Of course! Have the last 7 years been frustrating? Yes of course! But look at them objectively with the backdrop of change at the club. We are going throgh the second half now of a huge change programme. The AMG briagade are naive and most of their comments ill judged - example @ Danish Gooner "He is unfortunately as naive as they come tactically and it shows in important european games". If anybody thinks you win league titles, FA Cups, get to a European cup final, qualify for the Champions league for upteen years in a row by being naive then they are deluded. George Graham is not in his league. Herbert Chapman died early so it's a case of what ifs'.

  8. under acheiver

    Apr 26, 2012, 23:40 #21668

    Obviously from reading some of the AKB replies on here an Arsenal managers greatness is in inverse proportion to how long ago he was manager. Yes I`m talking about Herbert Chapman. Sick of hearing about how Wenger has made this club what it is, how he transformed Arsenal blah blah blah. All the AKBs please read the history of our beloved club. Before Herbert Chapman Arsenal were also rans. During his era we became one of the giants of the English game and have remained so. Read Arsenals history and stop going on about Wenger as if this club was nothing before he came. Its an insult to Chapman and others.

  9. lee afc

    Apr 26, 2012, 21:03 #21666

    absolute drivel. when we were on the crest of the wave a few years ago, I guess you were waiting for the implosion....far too many gooners out ther like you.... quick to slate...not too quick to praise.

  10. Big Andy

    Apr 26, 2012, 15:20 #21655

    His biggest weakness is his refusal to accept that football has changed in terms of wage structures. Big stars want big money. We have lost players, and are now consistently failing to sign the quality performers that we need, because of a wage structure that pays Djourou 50k a week but won't pay RvP the 200k that he deserves. Last season we should have signed Juan Mata but lost him to Chelsea because we wouldn't pay him the going rate. RvP could go this summer for the same reason.

  11. Nick

    Apr 26, 2012, 13:52 #21648

    If a manager or ceo of a top business , failed consistently to bring in the profits his firm required, he would be sacked no matter how good he had been in the past, there used to be a saying in football that your only as good as your last game,that ethos seems to be lost at our club, and i always believed that the currency of a football team was measured in trophys won, therefore for the last seven years he has failed we have a great history one to be proud of but the future is the important thing, and of course the present, neither of which look to rosy, yes we may finish third and i think well need to, because it seems the capricious gods of football have decided its chelseas turn for cl glory, but were 18 points adrift of utd in top spot and that for me is no reason to celebrate, it is in fact a dismal failure for a club like Arsenal, when i first stared supporting the club in the late fifties, we were a sleeping giant, under wenger at the moment were going back into hibernation, what make me really angry with him, is that we had a real chance in 2005 to go on and dominate like never before, but he broke up the side too soon and never replaced the outgoing players with ones of a similar quality, if the board made him do it, he owes it to us to say so and by the way John Gee, George Graham won 6 trophys in 9 years ! not 7 in 15 so dont denigrate the man, and at times with the likes of Rocky, Thomas , Merson and Limpar we played some fantastic football, and without the Graham defense wenger would never have built his own legend

  12. MoFaya

    Apr 26, 2012, 13:45 #21647

    Wenner can never be a great manager and Arsenal can never be a great club -If they keep on losing the best players every year. That's too unstable for greatness. Youth development cannot be an endless project. -If they don't adapt team tactics to specific teams when every other team adapt their tactics to play against Arsenal. No Plan B. Ditto for Barcelona.

  13. ATID

    Apr 26, 2012, 13:41 #21646

    Arsene has given me some of the happiest football moments in my life. His teams have played some of the best football I am ever likely to witness. He has made Arsenal a world class club. There are some angry AKB replies above but how unreasonable is it to want a change of manager if you think the current one is stuck in a rut?

  14. Joe S.

    Apr 26, 2012, 13:29 #21645

    After Joe M's post this one has also raised the passions and set key boards clacking.Arsene Wegner took Arsenal into the modern rea with a style of football that is still admired and copied.Along the way he also won some trophies but his teams shyed away from greatness. Unfortunately the character word has been a drawback which prevented Arsenal from dominating,so we were often second best to Fergueson's mongrel instincts ( passion ? ) and also fell short in the European arena.Also the great teams wearing the shirts with the big O on the front had names like Berkamp. Dixon, Vierra , Henry, Adams, Seaman , Pires, Parlour etc. They had the skill and professionalism to have won it all. Somewhere in Arsene's personality there is a flaw which has prevented him from achieving more. Certainly he had the players and momentum to have reached immortal status.

  15. Gary baker

    Apr 26, 2012, 13:24 #21644

    Wenger has done great for The Arsenal and we will never forget this but he has gone stale and is time for him to move on......ATID

  16. Gman

    Apr 26, 2012, 13:22 #21642

    Spot on article. AW was very fortunate to inherit GG’s defence and BR’s star buy DB and yes he brought with him some excellent ideas on how players should train and look after themselves. He brought some top world class players to the club and had the success he deserved. What has gone against him over the last 7 years, (I’m sure he has got a confidentiality clause in his contract and even if he hasn’t, he’s not the sort of man to dis’the board openly) is the move to the Grove and the down turn of the world economy. Things might have been a lot different if Usmanov with Dein had the major share in the club instead of Kroenke the clown. You are right with regards to his stubbornness with faith in players of the ilk of Senderos et al, but enough is enough, he has to make next season a defining one – insist RVP stays with a new contract breaking the clubs pay structure, get rid of the deadwood, buy Podolski, Vertonghen, Hazard, and Baines, and win a trophy. If he doesn’t learn from the last 7 years then he has to fall on his sword and go, or else he will be remembered for all of the wrong reasons!

  17. AugustusCaesar

    Apr 26, 2012, 12:37 #21637

    Call me an AKB but I agree wholeheartedly with James Howley. Wenger is a true visionary. Furthermore I think he's a man of the people. When he complains about the state of pitches this isn't because he's bitter about an Arsenal defeat (ok, that might have something to do with it) but because he believes the paying public deserves better. His penchant for fast flowing attacking football (that, admittedly, leaves a lot to be desired on the defending front) is because he wants to entertain. He wants to entertain and win and in his mind these things are not mutually exclusive. And that takes balls and I love him for it. Did you watch the Real-Bayern semi-final last night? Real Madrid shut up shop in the second half because Mourinho was afraid to lose. That would never happen under Wenger and I applaud and cheer him from the rafters for that. We all want Arsenal to do well but I also want our philosophy, of which I'm fiercely proud of, to remain in tact. I'd rather wait as long as it takes until we are successful again rather than employing some spiv like Mourinho. Identity and philosophy are massively important in a football club. As important as winning trophies one might argue.

  18. What was the point in selling Highbury?

    Apr 26, 2012, 12:34 #21636

    I really enjoyed this article. I think it is well thought and offers both sides of this argument. Wengers rain can litterly be split in half for me in 2005. Since then the game has moved on, Wenger hasn't. The point you made about Fergies back room staff is so true. Fergie has employed three number twos (McClaren, Querioz, Smith) that managed at International level at some point in their career. Constant evolution of coaching, fresh ideas and strong opinions. A good manager, in any walk of life, needs to know about delegation. Wenger can't organise teams so get someone in with you who can. Defensivly he is poor. To try to gloss over it is childish. He has also created a soft culture at the club. Players rewarded for failure with big contracts and excuses a plenty. It's OK to finish fourth boys, well done. Can you imagine true greats having that mentality. Once other clubs cottoned on to the foreign market Wenger has struggled. His refusal to look at players playing in the Prem is again childish and blinkered. United have Brittish players and they do alright. Everyone has their day in sport and then its time to move on. When Wenger choose to break up the Invincables someone should have spotted he had had his then.

  19. Gare Kekeke

    Apr 26, 2012, 10:28 #21632

    To those who say I have contradicted myself comparing Wenger to Shankly. Maybe I have so here is my respone to it. Shanks famously said to his players ‘first is everything, second is nowhere’. His players believed him and played like a team with that philosophy and a competitive streak, something that is sadly missing with this current Arsenal team. When his rebuilding process began in 1970, the next two seasons hinted at fruitful times ahead and they were close. You don’t need any reminding from me who they lost to in the 1971 FA Cup final. A year later, they missed out on the title by one point, to Brian Clough’s Derby County. And then in 1973, it all clicked. If a manager is going through a transitional period, one it shouldn’t last any longer than say four years as an example and two it should any hint at fruitful times ahead. It seems to me and me only and it’s not gospel that Wenger is always in transition. True we have come close but it’s always the same problems that prevent us. That should have ended at Wembley last year but didn’t and now he’s starting again. @ James Howley - Post No. 23826; top five managers in the English game? In my view, in this order, Paisley, Clough, Ferguson, Busby & our own Chapman. Finally, to those who have been critical of this article, it doesn’t bother me as most here have complimented it because I have been equally praiseworthy & critical of Wenger in a constructive manner rather than the “he’s useless” line because that is just pathetic. Please read the first paragraph again where I have stated most of the great things Wenger has done for the club and have given him credit for it. He deserves it. Up The Arsenal!

  20. Radfordkennedy

    Apr 26, 2012, 10:16 #21631

    Ron post no 23802 totally agree with you mate,Bertie Mee Don Howe and of course George Graham all instilled in the team a will to succeed and to fight for each other. It was dear old Bertie who addressed the team and said "Never forget who you are,what you are and who you represent",sadly, getting rolled over by a no-nothing team simply because they fight harder is becoming a worrying trait.IMHO this is down to the fact that we have players who know that no matter how bad they play they're a shoo-in for the next game,the manager has his favourites and thats the end of that,this in turn breeds complacency,AW and whoever comes in as the new no2 have got to have the balls to drop players who dont perform and put in place a tougher regime.Incidently im getting increasingly fed up listening to all this nonsense about finishing third,i couldn't care less about euro la-la land all i want is a day in the sun at wembley and seeing our colours tied to a trophy,and i couldn't care less if its the carling cup we should be chasing reality not fantasy.

  21. Mike

    Apr 26, 2012, 9:18 #21629

    What people forget is that not long before the launch of the EPL, most English teams were allowed a maximum of two foreign players in the squad, if I remember correctly. Things were a lot less complicated then as the teams played fairly predictably and players were loyal, established and well known - since then the floodgates have opened - decent, relatively unknown players are coming in and playing for the so called "inferior" teams making huge impacts - the Senagalese duo playing for Newcastle is a case in point - whats more, they probably are being paid a fraction of what the European internationals are getting. The point is, the goal posts have moned since the past - Arsenal is now a global brand - I have lived and worked throughout Africa all my life and you will be surprised at the knowledge people have of English Football since the EPL came into effect.

  22. mark from aylesbury

    Apr 26, 2012, 8:41 #21628

    He was a very good manager bordering on greatness who could not cross the final hurdle. The seeds were sown with his inflexibility to adapt and his inability to deal with buying star players. The belief system has not been challenged by people with vested interests like Pat Rice. Lastly the board have come to some sort of arrangement where he doesnt rattle the cash bowl and they in turn accept 4th place. The greatest managers will want to win everything Wenger patently does not.

  23. Tom

    Apr 26, 2012, 7:48 #21627

    If a true measure of managerial greatness is winning trophies, here are four reasons Arsen Wenger will never be a great menager; unwillingness to pay top dollar for world class players , and other three are Man U, Man City and Chelsea .

  24. RVP1968

    Apr 26, 2012, 3:54 #21626

    Some decent points but you contradict yourself a few times. Eg. You excuse Shankly from criticsm as he did not win for seven years as he was "rebuilding" or in "transition" then Wenger because he has not won anything for a similar period.

  25. ppp

    Apr 26, 2012, 1:46 #21625

    Anyone who thinks Wenger is "limited" is a complete effing idiot. There's no other way to say it. And if you disagree then you not just wrong - you don't know football, past or present.

  26. Jekyll

    Apr 26, 2012, 1:03 #21624

    @Arsenal fan "For me, he is Arsenal" Please adjust your name accordingly to 'Arsene fan'. It is inappropriate to use the name of an historic club for your devotion to one individual. Thank you.

  27. James Howley

    Apr 26, 2012, 0:30 #21623

    I'm really really struggling with some of the nonsense you've wrote here. How would you have to know very little history to say Wenger's is Arsenal best ever? Take away the fact that he revolutionised the club from top to bottom, produced more legendary players than any other single manager has done and changed the whole philosophy of the club, Wenger has won the most trophies, he has had the most success in real terms. Therefore, it is a natural conclusion to say he is Arsenal's best ever. Wenger is undoubtedly a great and was way ahead of his time. In recent years, its easy to forget his achievements but also very short sighted to do so. I could post about a thousand words of here as to why I believe Wenger is the best manager Arsenal have ever had and in the top 5 the English games has ever seen, but the fact that an Arsenal without Wenger is near unthinkable says everything. He is more than a manager for Arsenal. He represent an idea and a philosophy that few others could claim to have. He has built a dynasty at the club and changed the way we view football in this country. I, for one, am proud to call him our manager.

  28. Charlie

    Apr 25, 2012, 23:15 #21622

    best article i`ve read for a long time! In our last title-winng team, we had some of the best players in the world in their respective positions. Henry, Vieira, Pires. Camblell was also in his prime... why did this team not win vback to back titles or the champions lkeague? complex issue offcourse, but one reason is quite obvius to me. Many will probably disagree, but i dont think our first 11 was good enough despite so many world class players. wenger stuck with bergkamp(who was over the hill at that time) and Ljungberg (Who had his best season two years earlier, and whom i think was good but still generally overrated.) Lauren was good but lacked great pace. anyway, with ljungberg and bergkamp, we lacked width and a out and out striker. We should have bought van nistelrooy. henry tended to drif to the left - They would have been superb toghether. Instead he bought Francis Jeffers a coupple of years later.

  29. pakistani gooner

    Apr 25, 2012, 22:36 #21621

    Absolute nonsense this article. Modern Arsenal has been completely forged by Wenger, his knowledge and the people he has brought in, both players and staff. Most of whom are not given enough credit for the job. We as fans (real fans) all want trophies and titles and great players and after a barren few years of nearlys, still believe in Wenger because he will deliver. Jus because a manager gets to a cup final that doesn't mean he is great look at Avram Grant wiv Chelsea. A shoot out away from victory. If he had won that would not have propelled him into the upper echelons of management. And to quote from your own writing, "Some of the greatest managers know when to move players on", Wenger has moved plenty of great players on at the right time and get great prices and profits. And few ever go on to do better. If your honest, if you are really a fan, then you would admit that this article has no substance, little to no factual content supported by stats and evidence and is little more than frustration at several years of no titles. We have been spoilt during Wenger's reign to some of the best football ever seen, the pinnacle being the unbeaten season. It was always goin to be hard to swallow not winning, but titles do lay ahead. In Arse-nal We Trus

  30. fozzy's mate

    Apr 25, 2012, 21:29 #21620

    Jackson - I agree Wenger at Madrid is nonsense. At monaco when he tried to sell all the world stars and replace them with 17 year olds he was sacked within 6 months. Does anyone really think when true to form at Monaco and Arsenal he tries to replace Ronaldo with Bentdner or any other bargain buy or kid the Madridistas would accept it. The white hankies would be out as would OGL within 6 months. No truly great club or manager bench marks success as 3rd of 4th place.

  31. chrisy boy

    Apr 25, 2012, 20:38 #21619

    with regards to winning the champions league, our best chance would have been with the invicables, now and again you get a unfancied team like porto winning the trophy but im not sure i can see that happening again for a while. Wenger was once a great manager but the game has moved on at an alarming rate and wenger has been left behind. Im not even sure Usminovs billions would make a difference unless wenger and the whole club changes its ideas and ways, i think football in general is at a crossroads where clubs like Arsenal and Ajax both great clubs with great history have to either keep there house in order and be dept free and hope to win the odd cup here and there and qualify for champions league football each season or join the gravy train and try to buy there way to glory, i for once am not sure what the best policy is.

  32. Ando

    Apr 25, 2012, 20:28 #21618

    Wenger's problem is he never admits he is at fault, unless you accept the free tickets for away fans after the OT mauling as an admition of blame.He is a company man and the companies interest is financial and does not involve the risk of trying to win silverware.We fans have no choice but to accept this or f o elsewhere. Simples!

  33. Gare Kekeke

    Apr 25, 2012, 20:18 #21617

    Thanks for all your comments, including the ones critical of this article. I’ll be honest, those who have criticised it I expected it so I find your comments mildly amusing. Seeing as The Gooner is an open forum, please feel free to produce an article such as winning the European Cup is overrated. As you can see, I’m taking the p*ss here. To those who argue that Wenger is competing with the petrol-dollar filled clubs; I do take your points on board and they do carry a lot of weight. However at the same time, Wenger perhaps should have shown good management all round. After all, Newcastle & Middlesbrough spent fortunes between themselves on big-name players in the 1990s but still won nowt during that period, the latter suffering the humiliation of relegation from the Premier League. @ Stuart -Post No. 23794; I’m with you on the comparisons between Don Revie’s Leeds & Wenger’s successful Arsenal teams. You might argue that both could and should have won a lot more, but no way would we have wanted them to have won the 1970/71 First Division title at our expense! Finally, in regards to the final paragraph, a lot of former players and football writers based in the north have all criticised Wenger for a variety of issues whilst praising the aforementioned trio. Whatever misgivings Wenger has, and let’s be honest he has a few, the first paragraph of this article clearly outlines the man deserves respect for what he has done for our club and English football in general and the aforementioned trio could have only dreamed to achieve half of what Wenger has done and to an extent still does. Redknapp’s time as Tottenham manager, which will probably end soon if all the media speculation is true, will pass without a trophy. Allardyce is finding it tough to get West Ham promoted from the Championship, granted it is a tough league to be promoted from and Pulis; no comment required. Let’s all get behind the players for the remaining three games and we’ll all analyse from there. Up The Arsenal!

  34. Terry Bull

    Apr 25, 2012, 19:28 #21616

    Wengers record in major finals,9 finals only 4 wins.He has never won back to back titles like Fergie and Mourinho.Need we mention the E word Europe.Yes we have qualified 15 times blah blah blah but only twice past the quarter finals is nothing to shout about.Pre 2005 great in the transfer market but since then only Sagna and TV can be called great signings.Some of the duds he bought Silvestre Flappy Eboue Denilson Diaby Chamakh Squillaci Park Vela Gervinho.Pure rubbish.I always believe he should have gone after the CL semi defeat v Man Utd when they taught us a lesson.He didnt go and can anyone really say the next 3 years were an improvement.The Newcastle 4-4.the CC final,the 8-2 and the disaster in Milan the list goes on.

  35. Greg71

    Apr 25, 2012, 19:27 #21615

    Wenger has undoubtedly presided over the best footballing Arsenal side of living memory,unless something unexpected happens his legacy will be of great sides tinged with the amount of missed opportunities especially in the second half of his spell,in terms of trophies actually won some resemblance to Don Revie(ignore the England bit etc). As a great manager in history ? using the premier league table as an all tme historical comparison perhaps Wenger is West Brom comfortable in the league but not top ten.

  36. CT Gooner

    Apr 25, 2012, 19:12 #21614

    Great post Gare. I'm glad you've got folks thinking on this. I believe he's been a very good manager, but I agree with many that his tactical liabilities are now his Achilles heal. Let's face it, for us to compete with the top 6 in Europe, we need to be organized and tactically astute, as we pay less and won't have the same quality. Look at Chelsea last night. It wasn't pretty, but there in the final

  37. Dan h

    Apr 25, 2012, 18:50 #21613

    No doubt if talking of Arsenal great manager yes still an eye for young talent yes but a driven manager to win trophies sorry but no.AW the great manager became the great economist far too entrenched in the financial side of our club.His job remit changed what was happening on the pitch was blurred by involement in all areas of the money side of Arsenal contracts,transfer fees etc.We have seen some great football under AW coming up short on a number of occasions as the football dreamer in him had & has a belief there is only one way to win a football match.Cast your minds back to 2005 we abandoned those principals in the FA Cup final v Utd the last time i can remember us in a big match go out to stop the oppostion playing we won any coincidence?Moving on in time when the manager openly says he would take 2nd in the league for the next 20 years the football dreamer becomes the pragmatic economist.If the mantra of a top 4 finish is whats engrained in our club is it little wonder that is what we achieve yearly.Nothing more nothing less target met minimum outlay to achieve those aims assets on the balance sheet not the team sheet.No shame in coming up short to 'financially doped'clubs but when you choose not to use the 50+m in the PTA are you really looking to win or merely compete?The funds are in place this summer will AW at last use the money available to at least say we are looking to compete that is all that fans like me want if we come up short in those cicumstances so be it.Regardless of all our views he is there until 2014 no one pushing him to improve on what we have no one challenging him is it really a suprise we havn't won anything in 7 years?Excellent write up Gare.

  38. Jackson

    Apr 25, 2012, 18:49 #21612

    To those who say Wenger turned down the Madrid job,ask yourselves why?Madrid demand success thats why,Wenger wouldnt last 6 months there.If Wenger really was a top manager he would have taken the Madrid job like the special one did.But he is happy to stay at Arsenal pick up his £7m just to finish top 4.Knowing that he will never get sacked.Wenger is in the comfort zone.Sir Alex is a great manager who keeps winning Wenger cant be spoken of in the same breath as him.Fergie still has that desire to keep winning Wenger lost that desire after the 2006 CL final when he began his failed project.He broke up the Invincibles too early and replaced them with average players,Almunia Eboue Denilson Diaby Song Bentner the list goes on. Wenger very good manager 98-2005 but great dont even go there

  39. Trevor

    Apr 25, 2012, 18:33 #21611

    In a word....Europe.

  40. CanadaGooner

    Apr 25, 2012, 18:24 #21610

    "VERBOSE" that's the first word that springs to mind. Arsene Wenger is already a truly great manager: only an idiot would think otherwise. So, I dont have an answer to the question: what stops Arsene from being a truly great manager. The final paragraph of your article is truly (borrowing your word) bewildering. However, overall, a worthy article and in tru keeping with your usual posts, which I dont have any issues with. If we look carefully into what Wenger set out to achieve at Arsenal, it really is a remarkable undertaking. Somewhere along the line he got a little too arrogant and self-assured, lost a lot of the footballing minds to support him on the board and the club as a whole lost it's priorities and that isnt a reflection on just the manager. In my mind (as well as several others), Arsene is a genius, but like most geniuses, not always a happy or satisfactory ending

  41. Gooner Elirob72

    Apr 25, 2012, 18:14 #21609

    So if I read into this article correctly, if Arsene wins a trophy, who he, in your eyes, be a great manager???

  42. rudytel

    Apr 25, 2012, 17:48 #21608

    I mean no disrespect Mr Kekeke but you seem to be having an argument with yourself! I don't think comparing AW to every successful manager of every era is a fair analyisis of the mans achievements. Not 1 sensible Gooner would regard him as a "true great" anyway. From 97-05 he was the absolute nuts. His decline since has been has been so frustrating.

  43. AugustusCaesar

    Apr 25, 2012, 17:39 #21607

    The simple question on the 3rd/4th position over trophies quandary is: would we swap places with Liverpool this season. Yes or no? Ed - You could do a poll on that before (or after?) Liverpool's cup final maybe?

  44. ogban

    Apr 25, 2012, 17:16 #21605

    Next season must be his last. Not even his most ardent supporters like myself will stand another 'have-been' season with Wenger after that.

  45. fozzy's mate

    Apr 25, 2012, 17:11 #21604

    To my mind what stops Wenger from being a great manager is that he likes to operate in a comfort zone. By this I mean that as many have said he surrounds himself by yes men and his standard retort to an enquiry about any new input or ideas is met with the "Ive been a manager for 30 yrs" or "Ive made 50,000 substitutions" so nobody can teach me anything type of comment. He has no bottle at all in the transfer market and his valuations of players are basically 10 years out of date. The main reason that his star has fallen since 2004/5 is that the supine dough trouserers above, when seeing him as their ultimate cash cow, allowed him to redefine what success was for a giant of the game such as Arsenal. His measure of utopia as 3rd or 4th and big transfer profits areat odds with what is expected by the board and would be tolerated by the fans of any other club of similar stature and history accross europe. While those above him tolerate and encourage aims so low the club will never align itself with the true giants of the game and those whose aim is to actually win trophies rather than qualify for them. As it currently stands the supine, pathetic, dough trousering board and OGL are made for each other.

  46. Mike

    Apr 25, 2012, 16:45 #21602

    Interesting to see contrasting styles in the semi's last night - Barca continued to try and pass the ball into the net (much like Arsenal used to) but Chelsea parked the bus and won on two breakaway goals - which team would I want to pay to see - still Barca, even though they end up with nothing and Chelsea may be Champions. Pep did not change tactics - much like Wenger, but judging by this article Di Matteo is the better manager if he wins the trophy - not too sure about that

  47. Ron

    Apr 25, 2012, 16:33 #21601

    John Gee - Yes, maybe Wengers contribution to football generally extends well beyond GGs and could be said to be unsurpassed. What lessons hes brought though have been learned and hes being beaten now at his own game by so called lesser coaches at smaller Clubs quite frequently. However you shouldnt dismiss GG as easily as you seem to want to do. He was a winner with trophies to show for it and no GG team ever got bullied, outworked and outfought not did any of his teams not turn up. Wengers made a habit of his teams doing it.GG knew what Arsenal stood for and what players needed to know and understand about Arsenal too and how to dress and behave accordingly. Wenger has diluted the core principles of the Club bit by bit with his addiction to lightweights and fairyfoots in his teams, many of which arent taken seriously by other coaches anymore.

  48. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 25, 2012, 16:26 #21600

    Arsene is a good manager a very good manager and yes some will say a great manager but a truly great manager ? he certainly could have been but truly great managers don't rest on their laurels they build on their successes like one or two managers you've mentioned your right Gare arsene has done a hell of a lot for our club and certainly revolutionized things past players can testify to that.Going back to his successes he never built on them getting rid of senior players to quickly and instead trying to build a new team and it certainly doesn't take seven years and counting to do that his faith in project youth was commendable but a truly great manager would have realized after two or three years it was never going to work and not been stubborn and persisted.Yes arsene shows far to much faith and loyalty to over paid players who are just not good enough and never will be would a truely great like fergie do that ? I think he can still be a true great it not to late but yes he's going to have to adapt everybody else has (especially when playing us)and forget loyalty to overpaid dross get rid buy top top drawer players and we might have the success again we once had and them maybe he'll become a truly great.I want to say as little as possible about the three cretins at the end of your piece only that not one of them are fit to lace arsenes shoes. Good piece.

  49. PTangYangKipperBang

    Apr 25, 2012, 16:22 #21599

    Nothing. Wenger IS a truly great manager. Some people though will only get how great after he has gone.

  50. Stan's Rug

    Apr 25, 2012, 15:55 #21598

    A well balanced piece. Very fair, unbiased and supported with facts. AKBs will find it uncomfortable reading but the truth hurts sometimes. Another reason Wenger failed to join the elite is that he takes comfort in his own excuses. Real winners reflect, improve and overcome. Wenger dwells, complains and finds excuses. The players follow the boss' lead so that mediocrity and complacency become acceptable. Wenger needs a new challenge as much as Arsenal need a new manager.

  51. Arsenal fan

    Apr 25, 2012, 15:53 #21597

    He is a truly great manager, you moron. If you can't see it, then more fool you. On every aspect he is inspirational. If he were to leave Arsenal tomorrow ( I hope that day never comes) every club in the world would want him - bar Manchester United. This is a man who has turned down real madrid twice, inter milan, and probably Barcelona. For me, he is Arsenal, and this season under his guidance we will once again qualify for the Champions League, for the 15th year in a row. This is the same man who has helped bring and devolp world class players to our club; Henry, Berghamp, Fabregas, and now Van Persie, the best player in the premier league. Not too mention the trophies he has won...

  52. Big Dave

    Apr 25, 2012, 15:21 #21596

    Arsene will never adapt, he is way too stuborn and delusional in his own abilitiy, philosphy and approach Wenger earlier sucsess is mainly down to the the players he inherited from George Graham, and the defensive system which was past on to the defence which followed, and attacking wise Bergkamp was the main reason why we were so good in that era and why players like Heny developed into great players instead of developing like walcott.

  53. Rob

    Apr 25, 2012, 15:18 #21595

    Absolute nonsense this article. Modern Arsenal has been completely forged by Wenger, his knowledge and the people he has brought in, both players and staff. Most of whom are not given enough credit for the job. We as fans (real fans) all want trophies and titles and great players and after a barren few years of nearlys, still believe in Wenger because he will deliver. Jus because a manager gets to a cup final that doesn't mean he is great look at Avram Grant wiv Chelsea. A shoot out away from victory. If he had won that would not have propelled him into the upper echelons of management. And to quote from your own writing, "Some of the greatest managers know when to move players on", Wenger has moved plenty of great players on at the right time and get great prices and profits. And few ever go on to do better. If your honest, if you are really a fan, then you would admit that this article has no substance, little to no factual content supported by stats and evidence and is little more than frustration at several years of no titles. We have been spoilt during Wenger's reign to some of the best football ever seen, the pinnacle being the unbeaten season. It was always goin to be hard to swallow not winning, but titles do lay ahead. In Arse-nal We Trust

  54. Andy

    Apr 25, 2012, 15:16 #21594

    Great Article Gare.Thanks for mentioning Paisley and Clough who the AKB's would never have heard of given that they believe football was invented in 1996.Oh but Wenger gets us into the CL every season the AKB's keep telling us.Yeah so we can get knocked out every season when we play the first half decent team.The game in Milan summed up how tactically bankrupt he is at the highest level.Wenger was finished as a manager who would ever win another trophy the day he came out with his "4th place is a trophy" comment.Can you imagine Fergie ever saying that to the Utd fans.Fergie is not afraid to win domestic cups.But us the fans have accepted it.To see some fans getting excited about finishing 3rd is depressing.Really any manager whose team loses 8-2 should have resigned no questions asked straight after that game.We have just got to hope Chelsea dont complete the miracle in Munich

  55. Stuart

    Apr 25, 2012, 15:13 #21593

    I'm not an AKB but you can't just dismiss the fact that 'petro-fuelled dollar football clubs' have had a massive impact on other clubs chances of winning anything. Wenger regards the Premiereship and the Champions League as the only trophies worth winning in today's football. Outside of Manchester United, who we have to accept are a bigger club with a genius of a manager, Chelsea and now City, Arsenal are the only club that have been anywhere near able to compete for the title. I admit our efforts in the Champions League have been disappointing but I can't think of any manager out there, apart from Ferguson, who would have kept Arsenal at the top of the English game whilst building our new stadium. One final point: Wenger and his Arsenal team will be remembered and revered for many years. Look at the way Revie and his Leeds team are remembered forty years on. Dirty cheats maybe, but as one of the great managers and teams in English football history. How much did they win over the years? How many trophies did Bill Nicholson and his Spurs Double team go on to win? How many trophies did the great Dutch team of the 70s win? Wenger has made many mistakes but his legend will be set in marble: the man who dragged English football out of it's little-Englander mediocrity whilst setting the groundwork for the modern day superclub that is Arsenal

  56. Alister

    Apr 25, 2012, 15:05 #21592

    The 4th place 'trophy' won't be worth a tuppence-ha'penny if Chelsea win the Champion's League. Some good points, sir, well made.

  57. Bard

    Apr 25, 2012, 15:01 #21591

    Excellent post. A sober assessment of Wenger's achievments. I agree good, maybe very good but not great by any stretch of the imagination. And you nail it, inability to change allied to misplaced loyalty has cost him dear. Teams reflect their manager in lots of ways. Like Wenger Arsenal are mecurial, brilliant at time, unpredictable but lacking real heart for the fight.

  58. TK

    Apr 25, 2012, 15:00 #21590

    finally, some well constructed points put across! cant agree with everything, but have to say i hate this culture where we value success as being a top 4 finish, being in europe and winning nothing is hardly an achievement. But then the game has changed, and if u want to compete finishing in the top 4 and all the cash it brings can be termed a success, certainly when you're a self sufficient club like us. You also have to take into account the relative successes of clough, ferguson at periods in times when money wasnt so important. I cant imagine either providing european success for the lieks of aberdeen or derby in this age.

  59. Sureli

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:59 #21589

    Too much contradiction. You can come out and say that you dislike wenger and that will be it. To mock his achievements as good is down right disrespectful. He was voted best manager of the decade because he is great. The BPL is what it is because of him, and the game has got better because of him. Shanky goes seven years without a trophy and it's ok because he's rebuilding, Wenger well he is not a good manager. Hipocracy, don't you thenk?

  60. Tony Evans

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:53 #21588

    Really good article Gare - I always like and agree with your comments and this article is no exception. To use a tennis analogy I would compare Wenger with Tim Henman who was a great player but not ruthless enough and you always knew there would be someone that would be better than him. Wenger has a romantic view of football that is so far from reality it is untrue. We share his dislike of the Stokes of this world and the ugly side of the game but to totally ignore it is folly beyond belief. A great manager has to be ruthless, a realist and must not let sentiment blur his vision - Wenger is none of these - he is better than Redknapp and most of the other present incumbants but great, no not for me.

  61. No trophy for 4th

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:49 #21587

    For a manager who has won 3 titles he is tactically naive.Its shocking some of his decisions.He never picks teams based on the opposition.So many Gooners judge Wenger on 1998-2005 completely forgetting the last 7 years.A manager has to be judged on the here and now not past history.Its the Brian Clough syndrome at Forest.Some of his signings in the last few years have been truly appalling.Squillaci Chamakh Park and Gervinho to name but 4.Between 98-05 he was a very good manager but great no way.Great managers conquer Europe,this is where Wenger has failed miserably.Compare his record with real great managers like SAF,Mourinho,Paisley,Clough,Ancelotti,Pep and Capello.Wenger has been built up by the board and some fans as being unsackable(just listen to Gazidis gushing about him).This is rubbish no manager is unsackable.Would SAF still be Utd manager after 7 barren years?A great manager does not start every season with the sole aim of a top 4 finish.The greatest day in Wengers football career was the day UEFA brought in a CL place for a 4th place finish

  62. Charlie

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:47 #21586

    Why don't you examine his prime with the happenings around him. For example, everyone were predicting great things for Arsenal following the Invincibles era, but that was not to be. Know why? The Russian parked their tank in the back yard and started shooting roubles. Sometimes its all about luck and timing when you have your brst squad. Did Liverpool had the best opposition during their dominant years? Or, M U, Ferguson earlier years, he had hardly any teams to challenge them. Only after Arsene came, that we became a consistent challenger to their rein. So its not only about team and management, it is also about timing.

  63. Sebastian

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:47 #21585

    This is all drivel. There are too many wrong points to talk about, but you say Alex Ferg replaces players that are past it and Wenger doesnt? He got rid of Cambpell, Pires, Ljunberg, Lauren, Bergkamp, Henry and the best example Vieira just at the right time. None of them reached a higher level when they left.

  64. Jekyll

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:33 #21584

    Inheriting the best back 5 in Europe gave him a foundation, doubt if he'd have won anything without them. He hasn't since the last of them left the club. He was a good manager, though not sure I'd even say that now. He just has a very rigid, set methodology that appears to be just enough to finish in the top 4 each season. He doesn't think on his feet or appear creative or imaginative at all. He's just going through the motions these days, you see it in his pre-planned substitutions and in his media statements. Endless repetition.

  65. JJBergkamp

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:27 #21583

    Strange article really? He may not be the greatest manager, but we are not the greastest club and the fans are certainly not the greastest but thats football! So its a pretty good match all round really

  66. Nero pet

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:27 #21582

    When i knew arsenal playaz are in sh*t was when he said winning champions league wont change his life he lack hunger for success and he did inject it into his playaz AW should be feeders team coach thats his position PERIOD!!!!!!!!

  67. Statistically Speaking

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:26 #21581

    It's interesting to note that he is the only manager to have lost all three European finals. No team managed by a Frenchman has to date won either the European Cup or Champion's League trophies - can anyone really see the 'merely very good' Wenger breaking this trend?

  68. GarytheRed

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:24 #21580

    You are bang on about Wenger, agree with everything you say. He has been a good manager but not a great one, and as you say to many Gooners stuck in the Wenger timewarp, they seem to support Wenger before Arsenal FC. We all know he's a very lucky man because at any other top European club he would of been sacked 3 or 4 years ago at least. I think next season should be his last.

  69. Mikey H

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:14 #21579

    Judge him on the past 7 years, not the first 8. We have fallen behind and every year we seem to lose our top stars only to replace them with average ones on big contracts - then we cant move them on eg Bendnter, Denilson, Squillaci etc. AW has been fantastic for us but we need someone new to be able to take us to the next level with sadly seems out of AW reach. Up the Arsemnal!

  70. Ron

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:13 #21578

    Wenger is a top manager both now and pre 2005. There is a view that keeping Arsenal top 4 after a stadium shift surpasses the trophy years. His problem is his personality. I dont think hes a driven 'winner' like Fergie or Mourinho. Hes too idealogical. He likes the romance of the game and hes a slave to the aesthetics of the so called beautiful game ( a stupid description if ever there was one but hes fallen for it). He also lacks the man managment skills to handle big personalities unless theyre his countrymen. He likes malleable players who wont question him and a quiet dressing room. I can tell you now that any dressing room that doesnt see players rowing and coming to blows from time to time is a losers dressing room be it the pub teams or Man Utds. Wenger likes the tranquill scene and its his biggest achilles heel.Take a look at Arsenal. Theyre like choir boys on and off the pitch and have been for years. He runs a creche/social Club not a team of hard bitten winners and that how he likes it.

  71. Judge Fred

    Apr 25, 2012, 14:12 #21577

    It is a massive in-justice to list Wengers name in the same paragraph as Redknapp, BF Sam and Pulis. All three of the aforementioned are so ****, even the England National team dont want them as manager.

  72. Wolfgang

    Apr 25, 2012, 13:57 #21575

    Tactically he is not in the same league like other managers. His refusal to play anti soccer is,imho,the greatest problem. Who can forget Pool 4 Arsenal 4,NU 4 Arsenal 4,etc. If he doesn't strenghten the defence it will cause the gunners to lose out on the major trophies in the future. Btw the name of the game is winning. Well done Chelsea. As Torres said the best team doesn't always win.Well said. Brazil could have won the wc in 1982 but their swagger and reluctance to play densive soccer was to blame. Hopefully Wenger will wise up.

  73. Stephen Qurehsi

    Apr 25, 2012, 13:55 #21574

    Denilson and Ramsey Oh Ramsey Whooaaaa He play like Denilson I bet his Wenger son

  74. John Gee

    Apr 25, 2012, 13:55 #21573

    Gary, Gary, Gary an unkind, badly weighted article. AW has not only transformed Arsenal but also revolutionised the way in which all leading clubs attend to training and dietary habits. The number of players who have learnt their trade under AW and gone on to have worthwhile careers away from Arsenal and the manner in which Arsenal have progressed whilst building a new stadium and training ground bears testament to my belief that he deserves the title of GREAT. You should not be mentioning George Graham in the same breath,

  75. James

    Apr 25, 2012, 13:55 #21572

    Wenger is not a great manager, he is a good manager but limited. He got a helping hand by George Graham who provided him with an outstanding defensive base, but after they all retired he has struggled to ever build as strong a defence and as a tactician he is one of Europe's weakest. Wenger knows he has weaknesses, but due to his obstinate, egotistical character, and the fact that he thinks too highly of himself, he rejects outside assistance, refuses to be questioned and cocoons himself in what is effectively a managerial dictatorship. This unwillingness to learn from others is his biggest fault, ensuring he will never be a great manager and why Arsenal will never achieve greatness under him again. It is disappointing that the board cannot see such obvious faults, it makes them look weak and inadequate too, and tells me the club is not in good hands and the future is bleak.

  76. SLUGBOY

    Apr 25, 2012, 13:54 #21571

    I think Wenger is a great manager. He may not have won anything in the last 7 years, but you have to consider what he is competing against. Chelsea and mancity have spent approaching 1bn (Chelsea's money started 7 years ago - coincidence?) each in buying some degree of success. Barca and Real Madrid have also spent their way to success. The wages of the players at these clubs dwarf those at Arsenal too. Wenger has restrictions and is sensibly sticking to them. Also remember that he has managed to fund a stadium within the last few years too. Is he as good as Fergie or mourinho? Not in my opinion. These two are great managers. What is the difference? Tactical nous. Man Utd and Real Madrid (and previously Chelsea under Mourinho) could mix tactics to suit the opposition. They consistently produce potent teams, who will achieve success over flattering football. Wenger tends to play only one wasy - keep possession at all costs. He also has a blind spot for tall players, has been very unsuccessful at dead ball situations (corners and freekicks) tends to not be ruthless enough with the lesser talented players and I get the impression that the team are undermotivated sometimes (hence the losses to 'lower' teams. He is still a master at what he does and has contributed beautiful football to the premier league.

  77. ATID

    Apr 25, 2012, 13:50 #21569

    It is good to put AW's record into an intelligent perspective. Too many of the AKBs are stuck in a 1998 - 2005 time warp. I also how many of them will be warmly congrulating the manager on another third/fourth place "trophy" if Chelsea win the Champions League or even the FA cup?

  78. Man from Mars

    Apr 25, 2012, 13:47 #21568

    You call yourself a gunner!!???

  79. Danish Gooner

    Apr 25, 2012, 13:46 #21567

    He is unfortunately as naive as they come tactically and it shows in important european games.

  80. Afro Gunner

    Apr 25, 2012, 13:41 #21566

    Match officials, English FA and Media and Arsenal fans