We’re all going on a summer holiday?

Online Editorial – Arsenal’s Champions League ambitions take a dent



We’re all going on a summer holiday?

Song – Good and bad


Yesterday’s home draw with Norwich showed us both sides of Arsene Wenger’s latter day Arsenal. Great going forward, but poor at the back. 1-0 up, 2-1 down, 3-2 up and - incapable of closing out the game - 3-3 at full time. Three points from the last 12 available suggests we are witnessing the team’s annual end of season collapse. If Tottenham win both of their remaining fixtures then Arsenal will either face a play-off round to make the lucrative Champions League stages or – should Chelsea win the final of this season’s tournament - Europa League football.

It was strange, as for the majority of the match, it looked as if only one team had something to play for – and it was the one wearing yellow and green. Norwich worked hard to deny Arsenal space, and their harrying was rewarded with a deserved first half lead. I was not alone in viewing this match with some trepidation ahead of the kick off. In theory, with two teams to play who have nothing at stake, the necessary six points should have been a relative formality. But that requires some degree of professionalism and focus to win the two matches. As we have seen all too often with Arsenal since the move to the new stadium, these are not always guaranteed. Watching this group of players, there is definitely a ‘Where has our Arsenal gone?’ feeling. Where is the spirit of old, even witnessed earlier during Wenger’s reign? Why has it all gone so lacklustre, with players not seeming to motivate themselves?

I have written before how the team seems to have become heavily reliant on Mikel Arteta, and the 3-3 draw was further proof. As a defensive shield, Alex Song and Aaron Ramsey were nigh on hopeless. Song showed us the sublime side of his game with the ball that set up Robin van Persie to score his first goal, and then the desperate side of things with his pass to the opposition at a time when Arsenal were ahead 3-2 with the clock ticking down. Sadly, such a waste of possession is a common sight during Arsenal games these days, and Song is often the culprit. The team’s inability to hold onto a lead has become almost a given. The continued failure to see out matches goes back to the 2007-08 season and has never really been addressed.

Something new is needed in terms of the coaching, and I bring good news. Assuming Pat Rice is finally allowed to retire, Neil Banfield is favourite to get the job. Yes, that’s right. Someone who will really challenge Arsene Wenger and shake things up at London Colney. Steve Bould was asked again if he was interested in the job – as he was a year ago. He refused it for two reasons. One, he wants to be allowed to coach, as opposed to put out cones. Two, he wants to retain employment once Wenger does finally go. And on £20,000 a week who can blame him. If Bould were allowed to actually get his hands on the defensive side of the team’s game, there would be some merit in giving him a shot. But the man obviously knows the situation he would be getting himself into and doesn’t want to work under those conditions.

So the manager’s obsession with playing football the right way means that his team can look marvelous going forward when they get the bit between their teeth. But when possession is lost, it’s time to hide behind the sofa. With that approach, taking part in the Champions League can only be about the income, as there is a cat in hell’s chance of actually winning the thing.

Not too long ago, I pondered whether Arsenal fans would prefer to be in their club’s position – third in the table – or Chelsea’s. This was before they had played their two cup semi-finals. Most opted for Arsenal’s, but I wonder if those who did would change their mind now.

So Arsenal are hoping for favours this afternoon from Aston Villa and Manchester City. I really do not think that anything can be expected from Villa going on their recent form, but I believe the Gunners should finish fourth. So it looks like a case of ‘Come on Bayern’ on May 19th.

47 goals conceded in 37 Premier League matches. Points dropped at home to Fulham, Wolves, Wigan and Norwich. Fortress Emirates? People were saying before yesterday’s game that if they cannot beat Norwich and West Brom when they had to, Arsenal wouldn’t deserve third place. An announcement in the programme stated, 'We won't open the window for season ticket renewal until the confusion over the Champions League is settled. Renewals must take place before by 31 May'. Actually, the club will accept your money in the middle of July if you tell them that is when you can afford to pay it. But more significantly, it demonstrates that behind the scenes, they are well aware that the team are unlikely to win two must-win matches against sides that have nothing to play for.

The writing’s on the wall for Arsenal’s third place hopes. The sad thing is that the same cannot be said for manager’s future employment. Someone at board level has to develop the temerity to instruct the manager he needs to employ coaching staff that will concentrate on the defensive side of the team’s game and allow them to do their job. But no-one in the boardroom has the bollocks to stand up to the manager. And if you allow the situation whereby Arsene Wenger is interviewing candidates to be his own boss, that is what is going to happen.

So more of the same next season…

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  1. In Arsene We Trust

    Dec 05, 2012, 0:30 #29118

    @LJB: if you must know, the reason I couldn't attend the game is because I had to attend to a sick family member. Sorry, if I didn't put my selfless needs ahead of someone else. I appreciate you don't call me a "casual attendee". Judging from the childish comments from you anti-Wenger brigade, I have been support Arsenal, while most of you people were in diapers.

  2. LJB

    Dec 04, 2012, 21:27 #29108

    In Arsene We Trust, so you are so much an Arsenal fan that you didn't go to the Swansea match because you were "busy with other things" So you are either one of those irritating ST holders that doesn't bother to turn up, or a casual attendee who dares to tell those of us who spend hours every year travelling to support the team that we are not proper fans because we are not happy with the managers performance.I am NEVER TOO BUSY to see my team play.If Arsenal had to rely on fans like you the stadium would be half empty.Oh wait a minute.......

  3. DJ

    Dec 04, 2012, 12:58 #29067

    Standing in the wind and rain at Villa Park, I thought it couldn't get any worse... Role on Swansea, one of the worst home displays I've seen, in all forms of football. It’s fair to say I’m as upset and hurt as any Gooner! However, when it comes to Wenger I still find myself in a large dilemma. In the short term, I will agree that there are other managers tactically better that could easily get more from this set of players both in terms of commitment and results. However in the long term, I still feel he is the man for the job and clearly has the clubs full interest at heart both on and off the pitch. This may turn out to be misguided, we shall shortly see... Looking at our fixtures until mid Jan he has every opportunity to turn it around. So I suggest we get behind him and the team as much as possible and judge him then. No excuses just by the plain hard ‘points on the board facts’. 'Arsenal til I die’ with or without Wenger, win or lose. Just think a few Gooners need to remember that.

  4. Rocky RIP

    Dec 04, 2012, 12:00 #29060

    @In Arsene we trust - I've never once called for our manager to go, in fact I've never even publicly criticised him. For all his faults, I love the guy and it saddens me to see people turn on him. I'm longing for him to rediscover his magic hat. I've been slated on here for apparently 'exonerating' him. If the BSM walk had been about him I would not have gone on it. No chance. There were 2,000+ people there and not one of them had an ounce of indifference to Arsenal about them. They all love Arsenal like nothing else, hence why they are prepared to speak up for how other fans are feeling they are being treated. The noise on the walk was a throwback to the days when we had supporters who lived and breathed Arsenal, not ones who passed by and popped in from time to time on their way to the lastest Lloyd Weber. By the way, I do admire your loyalty to Wenger. Few are prepared to speak up for the man on here, for fear of defending the increasingly indefensible.

  5. In Arsene We Trust

    Dec 04, 2012, 11:59 #29059

    @billthered : I don't even know what you are trying to type there. No offense, but type proper English. To those people calling me a "troll", yes, every time there's somebody here who shows his supports for Wenger or more specifically he has different opinion than you lot, he must be a troll. Ha! It's you Wenger out brigade that are all pessimistic with all your whining. Look yourself in the mirror, before calling me a troll. I'm just showing my support for the club and being grateful we have a manager like Wenger than submitting to your ridiculous requests like being a manager is as easy as it is on FIFA video game.

  6. Theo's Bikini-Line

    Dec 04, 2012, 10:14 #29046

    How have the moderaters on here not cottoned on to the fact the 'In Arsene We Trust' is nothing but a WUM? Do you guys actually read his posts?

  7. billthered

    Dec 04, 2012, 7:24 #29032

    In Arsene we trust lets get real,it's only in the last few weeks that I have seen what was plainly obvious to everone else that our once great manager has had his day.We can thank him for all he's done but time has run out.You state FFP that dont count for managers does it 7.5 million anyone,anyhow do you want to give him more money to spend on the next leading scorer in the french league Gervino, I think I preferred Lee Chapman.Iff FFp does come in should we give all the dross you know who they are a pay rise at last count some of them are on 60k one in particular on 90k no me either.In the words of Alan Sugar you keep mentioning their tired so ok Arsene your FIRED!!!

  8. Ali

    Dec 04, 2012, 5:26 #29028

    Previously it hurt me a lot when Arsenal conceded a goal or dropped points but not anymore. Surprisingly I was glad that Michu scored the goals since he is on my Fantasy PL team.

  9. Van de Ed

    Dec 04, 2012, 1:22 #29026

    I am as frustrated as the next die-hard gooner fan. However being as objective as I possibly can, I'll say over past 7 seasons, we've been finishing in our TRUE POSITION in the EPL (as we're the 4th biggest spenders). So in that regard, Le Boss has been achieving the absolute minimum expected. Like it or not, winning any major trophies nowadays requires HUGE spending (with very few exceptions of course e.g Montpellier last season etc). So we'll have to truly assess Le Boss in May; and should we finish below 4th, then he'll have ZERO credible excuses to offer!

  10. In Arsene We Trust

    Dec 04, 2012, 0:51 #29025

    Still so much whining from the anti-Wenger brigade. LOL. I swear you lot like to whine than actually supporting the club, so why some of you want the club to lose, just to show the man you hate so much. @Rocky RIP: already did my research, thank you very much. The march will soon or has already been forgotten by those Arsenal fans that matter like those who supports the club and manager. When Wenger gets us back to top 4 once again, your precious BSM will be a forgotten memory. @CanadaGooner: don't feel sorry for me, feel sorry for the anti-Wenger rabble. I'm happy supporting my club, even at difficult times, but just looking at some of these posts on this website alone, shows how bitter they are. So much energy wasted with their nonsense instead of putting it to good use like supporting club & manager. @LJB: I doubt clubs like Everton, West Brom, Swansea, etc. will still be up there at the end of the season. In the past few seasons, pundits and so-called Arsenal fans keep telling how we'll finish mid-table, but Wenger keeps proving them wrong. I'm sure Wenger will once again do the job. The season doesn't end in December. You people need to stop panicking like the club is in relegation trouble. Arsene knows best. @Block G Season ticket holder!: I couldn't attend at the Swansea match, busy with other things, but I have attended in previous matches, so what's your point? Honestly, attending the matches have soured a bit, because the anti-Wenger disease have infected some of those attending the match. Still, they are a small bunch and those who attend matches who just come to abuse Wenger and boo the team, their money is funding the club, as well as paying for Wenger's salary, so the jokes on them. LOL. Well, that's all for now, I suppose I should stop now, so you anti-Wenger rabble will get a chance to gather your pitch forks and spout your nonsense once again.

  11. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 03, 2012, 23:33 #29023

    LJB spot on.

  12. goonercolesyboy

    Dec 03, 2012, 22:38 #29020

    @Highbury Diva, Moyes laudrup and Clarke are all doing a better job with limited resources....please remind me what trophies they have won as current managers? And to anyone else and maybe I missed it but where did In Arsene we trust say he wasn't there? The quality of this league is what should be in question and as yet no one has debated that point with me...very interesting....

  13. Block G Season ticket holder!

    Dec 03, 2012, 20:56 #29018

    In Arsene we trust - the simple fact that you were not even at the game just shows you up for what you reall are. You pompous arm chair supporting wengerite. This was a great club before him and will be after him. Winger is finished and is now making us a laughing stock....just except it you clown.

  14. Northbank Norman

    Dec 03, 2012, 20:42 #29016

    It's not about winning things it's about showing ambition and intent. The current regime in charge are content to trot along whilst asking fans to pay top dollar.please don't harp on about FFP as no ones the implications and direction where that will take . Wenger is quite happy to take players from lower league/foreign clubs for a decent price yet complains when wealthier clubs poach our stars saying its unfair. We are constantly being outplayed by "inferior" sides .when you pride yourself in playing the ball along the ground the way we have previously done then something is seriously wrong. Mr wenger you are in charge of team selection,the style we play, the depth of the squad and all footballing matters ,the buck stops with you. You seem to have mislaid your magic hat since we left highbury and its time for you to go .

  15. LJB

    Dec 03, 2012, 19:34 #29011

    In Arsene we trust WHY are there 6 clubs ABOVE us who have spent a fraction of what Wenger has spent?He has spent 100 mill over the past 2 summers;Swanseas team that taught Wenger how to REALLY play possession football cost LESS THAN GERVINHO.Whats your excuse for this,i'm dying to hear.I don't want Wenger spending another penny of the clubs money as he wouldn't know a good player if he turned up in his christmas stocking.I love the way you AKB's moan about how its unfair that Chelsea and City can spend so much money,and then say you can't wait for FFP so Arsenal can blow everyone out of the water.Whos wants to buy success again?

  16. UltrArsenal

    Dec 03, 2012, 19:06 #29007

    Arsene Wenger needs to resign at the end of the season and recommend to those idiots on the board to bring in Pep Guardiola or dortmund coach kloop to undertake the new arsenal project.

  17. goonercolesyboy

    Dec 03, 2012, 18:35 #29003

    2,000 of 55,000 home fans(both approximations) is 3.63% of the attending fans who protested... As I wrote in a post three articles ago the quality of the premier league is nowhere near as high as it was and we certainly do not have those class players Henry, Bergkamp etc...no team in this country has that quality of player in their team and that includes RVP...Spain's La Liga has the best players and Germany's Bundesliga the best organised teams, hence either country's teams are likely winners of this years Champions League. So until this country starts to coach properly and not continue to fuss over the money then the premier league will be left behind. They coach footballers to play properly, defending and attacking...the results this season show the lack of quality in every club and that any team on any day can beat each other in our league. Defending has become a lost art at all the football clubs in this country. The odd result does pop up eg Celtic but in the main this league is being left behind.

  18. Jack

    Dec 03, 2012, 18:20 #29001

    Agree 100% with In Arsene We Trust.If it came to the crunch us AKB's would crush the plastic WOB's.You should see my biceps. LOL

  19. jeff wright

    Dec 03, 2012, 16:27 #28993

    Wenger's been trotting out that old excuse about tiredness for years after a poor display by our players. I think that he gives the players too many excuses to under-perform with his public statements , such as the League Cup is not worthy of me celebrating winning it,4th place in the league is a trophy nonsense. At least we don't hear him claiming that it's how you play that counts because he knows how poor the current side is despite his absurd claims about them challenging for the league title that he has made.

  20. Chris

    Dec 03, 2012, 16:21 #28991

    @Frank - actually you're wrong. Arsenal's average finishing position over the last 8 years is closer to 3rd than 4th. Last 8 finishes: 2nd/4th/4th/3rd/4th/3rd/4th/3rd. That's an average position of 3.375.

  21. CanadaGooner

    Dec 03, 2012, 15:47 #28989

    I do hope this site doesnt turn into a cyber-bullying site. i dont think many agree with what 'in arsene we trust' has said, but it would be great to see people express their opinions and state their arguments other than zoom in on one comment and rip the fellow to shreds. I actually find it amusing that anyone would or could still think Wenger is the man for the job at Arsenal; it would be very interesting to hear what such misplaced faith is based on? is there some planned revival at arsenal by wenger, that's suddenly going to propel us back into the elite? perhaps he's signed a deal with barcelona and co, to help us win the champions league like chelsea did last season? excellent! let's have faith and clear some space in the already empty trophy-cabinet then shall we?

  22. Rocky RIP

    Dec 03, 2012, 15:08 #28985

    @in Arsene we trust - the walk went extremely well thanks. The police estimated circa 2,000 of us attended, many without tickets, all very well behaved. All proper Arsenal who care profoundly about our great club. So much that it breaks our hearts to see how its core supporters are being more and more alienated and priced out. If you ignorantly assume it was about the manager and cannot recognise what a valuable cause it's for, then I can only guess you are winding people up, or very misinformed and misguided. Do your research and get your facts straight please.

  23. In Arsene We Trust

    Dec 03, 2012, 14:06 #28979

    It's so funny to see you lot trying to write coherent replies, especially how you guys are mad like rabid dogs all foaming at the mouth. LOL. Firstly, 7-8 years isn't that long. If I remember correctly, Alex Ferguson aka 2nd best manager in the EPL behind Wenger, took him that long to win his first league title for Manu. Chelsea and Man City went decades not winning the league. So 8 years is nothing, you people just need to quit whining and be patient. In a few years time, when FFP comes to play and more money is brought in for Wenger to spend, everything will fall into place like he planned. Finishing 3rd or 4th place is nothing to be ashamed of, but then again I'm not some plastic fan. Wenger is getting results, despite not having the spending power of the other top clubs. In a way, he's overachieving, but you ingrates wouldn't know that, because all you want is short term success and be like Chelsea where they keep hiring & firing managers and spending on £50 million flops like Torres. I don't want Arsenal to become like that, the club should spend responsibly like we are doing now. Things aren't so rosy before Wenger took over, you lot will beg him to come back if he decides to call it quits. So careful what you wish for. Arsene knows best. Regarding creating my own march, I don't need to because there are still plenty of level-headed Gooners out that supports their club who knows that Wenger is still the right man for the job. In fact, there's so many of us that we would make your precious BSM look like ants. I watched some interviews of those who participated in the march and some of them even praised spurs. Are you sure you guys aren't spurs fans in disguise? LOL. Honestly, I can't tell the difference between spurs fans and you anti-Wenger brigade anymore.

  24. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 03, 2012, 13:25 #28972

    Yes Ian same excuse after same excuse the new buzz word is jaded you couldn't make it up, so much for all this crap from the players telling us we have/have to, learn from our mistakes did you ever see such slow learners in your life ? The manager has lost it whatever he had or used to have is gone there hasn't even been a sign,glimmer,flicker,that it's ever coming back.It's got to the stage where he's sitting on the bench talking to himself and muttering instead of out on the touchline shouting instructions and orders to the clueless players not that it would make much difference anyway.Yes the new buzz word is jaded i wish we all could be jaded on 50,60,70,grand a week, hold on we are, watching the decline of our club minus the dough of course.

  25. Alex Ward

    Dec 03, 2012, 12:48 #28969

    Lets be honest, a lot of us were saying that a season when we don't qualify for the champions league was the only way change may come, but then when that season looks like it might materialise we moan about it! Change won't come, and I'm talking about the ethos of the club, not just the manager, until the club are forced to change, that situation will only arise once they are hit financially.

  26. Frank

    Dec 03, 2012, 12:48 #28968

    @Jack dream on.Ferguson is the greatest manager ever for a reason.He doesnt stand still.Last season Utd finished 2nd on GD he went out and bought the best player in the prem.In the last 8 years our average finishing position has been 4th.Ferguson would have the dignity to resign if Utd kept finishing 4th.And Wenger gets paid more than Fergie!!!!

  27. RDT - 4

    Dec 03, 2012, 12:26 #28964

    In Arsene We Trust, the protest only wasn't on the news because we didn't smash up shops and throw things - not exactly newsworthy. I was there with 1-2000 and we made our point in a peaceful and dignified way. Perhaps you could organise your own march in favour of the current regime - just might be a little lonely.

  28. Tony Evans

    Dec 03, 2012, 12:24 #28963

    I wasn't even upset after the Swansea match, in fact, if it helps rid the club of Wenger than it is a loss worth suffering. The pressure on him is at last building and I hope that continues until he is forced out. He will take a great deal of shifting I know, such is the make up of our club now, but when he goes boy will I be celebrating. By the way well done to all those on the BSM march - but please now extend your aims to ridding the club of Wenger.

  29. Highbury Diva

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:50 #28961

    So "In Arsene we trust" you think we will get into the top 4. It could happen but you obviously regard that as the trophy that Mr Wenger does. That would be another season papering over the cracks and it will never get better under this manager. Other managers, Moyes, Laudrup, Steve Clarke are all doing a better job on limited resources and I believe they would improve the crop of players we have now. Do you really think all those quality Arsenal players have left reluctantly? Of course not. They know they can do better elsewhere. I don't believe it's just about money. The rot set in when Flamini left and it's been a slow decline ever since.

  30. Warmsy

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:47 #28960

    A very well written piece, Ian. There are now genuine business reasons why a change of manager is needed, and that surely must be the tipping point. I do get annoyed when I listen to punters and fans on the radio reminding us how good Wenger has been for Arsenal. That may be so, but he and the board are very different to what they were a decade ago. Judge the current manager as if a different person.

  31. Jack

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:41 #28959

    It's the Wenger out Brigade who get some of our best players to leave by constantley saying in the media how they don't blame them if they want to leave as Arsenal have no ambition. Thus giving the player an easy excuse to go for more money. Then you hear them blubbing to Adrian Durham on talk sport telling him how they want their Arsenal back. Drama queens the lot of them.

  32. Andyd

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:34 #28957

    In Arsene we trust. A blip?! This is the eighth season of Wenger's "blip" Get a grip. Watching him flounder like an idiot by the side of the pitch waving his arms about is painful. Go on google and look at him 8-10 years ago smiling and enjoying watching a great team and then look at him now. When you've done that look at some pictures of Cloughie in his heyday and what he looked like at the end of tenure at Forest. I dont have to remind you that Forest wouldn't sack Clough either, they hung on blindly because in his heyday he won trophies galore. I also shouldnt have to remind you that he relegated them and over a decade later they still languish in the doldrums. Arsene doesnt know anymore, he's past it and should go with dignity before he's forced out in shame.

  33. In Arsene We Rust and Rust and Rust....

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:18 #28955

    "A little blip"???? A seven year little blip???? Laughable. Truly laughable - but not as laughable as the current Arsenal squad.

  34. Arsene goodnight

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:18 #28954

    In Arsene we trust- you must be crazy to think this is a blip its 7 years soon to be 8 pal my god I can't believe your still backing the clueless fool yes he has done wonders for our club and we will never forget that but it's time to change quickly before its too late end of season he must call it time.you might be happy with your top 4 trophy but for more and more of us this is not enough now what's the point in cl when we haven't got a cat in hells chance of winning it?i tell you what you and your AKBs can **** off with him true arsenal fan my arse.if you we're you would be as hurt and pissed off as the rest of us.i for one will have my wenger out banner at the Wigan game.

  35. mark from aylesbury

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:10 #28953

    in Arsene we trust, the answer to your query is heavy coverage in the daily mail and Telegraph, coverage on 5 live and also mentioned on BBC Final score. So very good. I would add that I work in a part of London that see regular demos, 500 to a 1000 is plenty enough to create a noise. I have to say you sound like a pastche of Chemical Ali or going right back Lord Haw Haw.

  36. Harry

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:06 #28952

    @In Arsene We Trust Just a 7 make that 8 year blip.Its the WORST start in 30 years.

  37. jj

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:03 #28951

    I'd like him to actually stand up and take the blame for the decline and not blame everything else. If the manager can't even take resposibility off the pitch,how on earth can anyone expect the players to on the pitch.

  38. nilz21

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:03 #28950

    InArseneWeTrust ..with that comment you've shown what a idiot you are...completly clueless.. you must be being paid by Stan and Grazidis to say such nonsense. Your not a real fan ...your part of the problem

  39. chris dee

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:50 #28948

    We are in big big danger if this is allowed to drag on,if winning is a habit then so is losing. And scarily Arsene's reaction and comments just seem to reinforce the perception that he has no answers to the problem. It may be naive of us fans but a comment from Arsene stating 'it was unnecceptable performance and it will not happen again' would at least show some passion and anger that we could connect with.And Arteta's bland,predictable club approved P R cliche on the club website that 'we must all stick together now' is just a load of unconvincing b******s . As it is we are left with our anger growing stronger and stronger with each passing souless performance. I would excuse Jenkinson from any critisism because I have never seen him hide,shirk responsibilty or give less that 100% which can be levelled at many of the other players.Treated and coached well he has the potential to become a great Arsenal full back.I remember him when we were humilated 8-2 at Old Trafford giving Woolcott a right earful for not tracking back,but obviously that upset Arsene who wants good Karma with hugs and kisses between the players no matter how s**t we are playing.In fact the boy should be made captain because Vermaelen from being a tough tackling no nonsense defender who knew how to defend when he joined us has become another tippy tappy precious liability whose defending skills have slowly but surely been eroded by our manager ignoring or worse,his inability to organise defensively. Good defensive coaching Arsene.

  40. jb

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:48 #28947

    No disrespect to Swansea but we made them look good. Our workrate, with a few exceptions, was shocking. It seems Arsene has lost the dressing room as he is no longer able to motivate his players. Some of those players need and deserve a right roasting and Arsene is not the man to do it. They have to fear a rollicking from a manager if they don't do enough to earn their 60 or 70 grand. How many of our lot would AF put up with?

  41. Jack

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:40 #28946

    Arsene Wenger has been at Arsenal 16 years in that time Arsenal's average league position has been (2.5). Alex Ferguson has been at Man U for 26 years his average league position has been (2.9). Wenger has the best long term consistency of all the managers,the quick fix glory hunters should not be allowed to drive him out. Wenger should be given as long as he want's he is due our respect and backing not the impatient heckling by the ill informed minority.

  42. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:39 #28945

    @In Arsene We Trust. Official police estimates put 1,500 on the BSM March. I was on the march and saw many applauding as it made its way around to Bear roundabout. Only saw one person who voiced disapproval.

  43. ljb

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:34 #28944

    In Arsene We Trust,yes you are SO much of an Arsenal fan that you weren't even at the game.There were plenty of tickets avaliable on ticket exchange,How dare you have the nerve to criticise matchgoing fans.Still keep supporting Wenger all the way into the Championship.

  44. John Abrehart

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:26 #28943

    I think that we should get off the players backs and certainly not chant such things as 'jaded, jaded Arsenal'. I go back to a Highbury League game some 50 years ago when about 7,000 turned up. Billy Wright was gone almost the next day. If we want rid of our Manager it ought to be done in a dignified way, befitting of Arsenal but there are so many hospitality packages and the like that a core of people on 'freebies' will turn up come what may and this diffuses a 'stay away' protest by genuine supporters. Finally, I hate it when other clubs covet our best players and finally entice them away,(RVP etc) but I for for one would covet Michael Laudrup!!!

  45. jamie hunter

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:25 #28942

    Well one thing this thread has taught me, looking at comment number 4, Ivan Gazidis reads The Gooner Online!

  46. Support Arsenal and their amazing manager

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:23 #28941

    Really thoughtless moan from a non-supporter. Yes, it's really disappointing to see Arsenal have bad days. But remember, Arsenal are the only English team apart from Man Utd that are in the last 16 of the Champions League, and they're still only 5 points off third place, very early in the season. Would you rather be a Chelsea who are troubled despite all their bags of money – and knowing that if Abramovich gets fed up, they'd collapse entirely? It's really hard staying competitive when other clubs – even QPR – are being bankrolled by silly money – yet Wenger does it against the odds. Why not come out of your sulk and give him the support to keep Arsenal the best, most sane, most genuine, and genuinely brilliant UK club – and stop making Chelsea and Manchester City fans very happy by undermining him.

  47. GoonerGoal!

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:18 #28940

    All that's missing from the chaos that is now Arsenal is an announcement from Gazidis that he is changing the pre-match tune to Napoleon XIV's "They're coming to take me away Ha-Haaa!"

  48. George Musisi

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:14 #28939

    You are right 100%. Wenger has ran out of ideas and he cannot lead the team to great heights as before. The problem is, he nurtures players and sales them when they are at their prime age of being intergrated into first team. Look at young talent he has at his desposal but is not giving opportunity to play eg Estfeld, Serge Gnary, Conquelline, Miyach,etc. Infact i rate Miyach highly than Garvinho. Look at the players he holds but are nit used and at the same are paid salaries. Wenger must assigned another responsiblity at the club but not managerial position.

  49. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:13 #28938

    Who can be satisfied with what's going on at all levels at our club? Who can seriously say that we have a squad capable of winning at the highest level? Who can seriously say that Wenger is irreplaceable? Two or three losses in our next five games will consign us to mid table mediocrity of which we may not recover. No european football at any level next season. God knows what's in store for our wallets if that happens. Protest. Demonstrate. Make your feelings known. Get our club back.

  50. Arsenal...Who??!

    Dec 03, 2012, 9:38 #28935

    Fair point, but what is Arsenal way of playing these days....! This has been for a while now that Arsenal have lost their way of playing...in fact...Swansea played like we used to play!!! What is happening to our Club as all we see is the Rich Board et al laughing all the way to the bank while hiding behind Wenger!!! Wenger is in it as well as much as he cares for the club but as he has stated many times before that he is a servant to his Master/s.

  51. In Arsene We Trust

    Dec 03, 2012, 9:30 #28934

    Boy, you anti-Wenger rabble are such drama queens. This is just a little blip, you'll see that Wenger will guide us into top 4 once again. We are just 5 point behind 3rd spot, so you people quit your whining and support the club. Arsene knows. Btw, how did that little protest went? I didn't hear any news about it, I guess not many people turned up to their ridiculous cause. Either way, I couldn't care, as I'm too busy being a real Arsenal fan by backing the club than whining like those lot.

  52. Nels

    Dec 03, 2012, 9:28 #28933

    Here's a new chant for the West Brom game: Jaded, Jaded Arsenal!! Jaded, Jaded Arsenal!! Jaded, Jaded Arsenal!!

  53. Nutty's Right Peg

    Dec 03, 2012, 9:16 #28932

    It's been going Pete Tong for a while now, too many abject performances & or points thrown away from winning positions to regale here, we can all recall them. I wouldn't be confident of this current side winning the toss in the next five games, let alone actual football matches ! Let's face it, we're facing sides who will be better organised, show more of this famous "spirit" we're apparently full of, in short, the West Brom's & Reading's of this league will simply want it more. Can't get up for Tuesday night, frankly first or second place in the group makes little if any difference to our chances of winning the bloody thing. It saddens me greatly to see a once famed, visionary leader steadily turning into a figure of ridicule. As the author states, would you now trust Wenger to get the best out of any potential January signing ??

  54. Sinking quicker than the Titanic

    Dec 03, 2012, 9:00 #28930

    RVP was always going to leave last summer the same as Cesc and Nasri the year before.Wenger knew that ages before that happen so he had time to make plans to replace them.What does he do sign Gervinho one of our worst players ever, Park who didnt start one league game and Giroud.Why when we sold RVP to Utd didnt Wenger ask for either Hernandes or Berbatov in return? I have said it all along as soon as Wilshire proves his fitness City will come knocking with a £25m bid and you know the rest.We have some good players at the club but we dont have any great players.In 2004 we had 5 world class players Cole PV4 Pires Henry and Bergkamp.Finally a pat on the back for our scouting system Michu cost £2m Giroud £12m Gervinho £12m and Park £5m

  55. GoonerRon

    May 10, 2012, 21:41 #22173

    It seems your seemingly well informed, confidently articulated comments about Steve Bould appear to be utterly without substance. I respect you for raising your head above the parapet by being editor but making comments like this don't half dent your credibility.

  56. Mike

    May 08, 2012, 15:56 #22047

    Kevin, your credibility as an editor is shot - seems that Bould is on his way in by all accounts - please remain factual as well as constructive even whilst being negative -seems that there are a lot of your followers around. Don't try and pluck something out of the air - if you are not sure please wait

  57. matt1202

    May 08, 2012, 11:46 #22028

    Seems from reports that Steve Bould is set to be unveiled as the new number 2. Another petty Gooner editiorial desperately searching for anti-AW criticism at the expense of rational debate. Reminds me of the assumption after the Man Utd game that Van Persie would only maybe stay at Arsenal if Wenger was sacked and a Dutch manager brought in. Your insinuation then was he had lost faith in the manager - 30 PL goals and player of the year by a country mile really backed that up. I agree with much of your criticism, but please enough with the ridiculus statements and non-stories such as this one.

  58. GoonerRon

    May 07, 2012, 19:48 #22004

    For all those having a moan about the new kit, give it a rest. It's red with white sleeves and apparently the blue is from a kit in the 30's. If its good enough for Herb Chapman it should definitely be good enough for us.

  59. Andrew Cohen

    May 07, 2012, 18:20 #22003

    @JCL. Re the Kit. Oh my goodness me, I read what you has said and was expecting something truly truly dreadful; you know, an all blue or claret home kit or the Hawaiian beach shirt all over again. At least it actually has a red shirt and white sleeves. I believe that they could fix the home shirt at 1971 and the away kit at 1979 and still get the nylon wearing masses to buy simply by putting a date on the new seasons shirts. They could gently imply that it would be "uncool" not to wear the latest monogrammed issue. Still, this is a minor issue, of importance only to those of us who believe that we have the most aesthetically pleasing kit in the country, and don't like a good thing to be messed around with. The boys in the commercial department and at our kit manufacturers have to produce something ghastly and new every year otherwise they are not allowed a new Mansion in the Dordogne. BTW, would everyone please lay off Pat Rice. He is a lifer and like oh so many of our bretheren, seems to have some misplaced loyalty to the Alsatian. Can we please remember the physical damage he delivered to odious northern types for the best part of 20 years on the pitch, and cut him some slack.

  60. nugs

    May 07, 2012, 16:49 #22002

    The new kit would be more at home at old trafford ****ing disgraceful! Not as disgraceful as the fans who buy these ****e kits that totally disregard the history and heritage of our club season after season! Red and white home yellow and blue away simple.

  61. fozzys mate

    May 07, 2012, 16:07 #22001

    Agree with you all re the strangely usa like kit. We all hated the kit before this one (not white sleeves) and this one is going nack to the horrendous early eighties style with the black and red striped socks and green and blue away kit! Re podolski I predicted (not rocket science) that we would sign him for 10 million as the replacement for RVP 30 plus and the syrup wearing, tash bearing denver dough trouserer will happily pocket the rest. He will then send his hench man mr self sustainable forward to say we have signed a better player and the profit will be kept aside for later windows as he said after the inevitable sales of cesc and nasri. All of you that are considering the annual kings ransom for renewal take my line, this sickly regime will not drive me from my club. RVPs departure and associated dough trousering may finally trigger the required uprising. During the "lack" of appreciation on Sunday about 50 people sang "one arsene wenger" with nobody else willing to join in.

  62. Mike

    May 07, 2012, 15:53 #22000

    @Red Mist -you are already expecting him to fail (Padolski). He must have something to offer surely??? Surely he must go down as a good signing, if not, who is a good signing? RVP is reportedly being offered 250 000 a week, or K12 million a year (10% of our wage bill) - he would be silly not to consider it(cups or no cups) All this does is raise the wages that the average players get. Even SAF says Man City are getting beyond of joke. Personally, I think Wenger will keep RVP, even if it is only up until the January transfer window and then sell him - he will still make a huge profit

  63. Nick

    May 07, 2012, 15:39 #21999

    Well , weve been let off the hook again , and thankfully have a chance to redeem ourselves, by throttling the throstles at the hawthornes, but i must admit i will be approaching said game with more than a little trepidation, every time Song gets the ball in our half i will be holding my breath, waiting for the inevitable cock up, i feel young Ramsey has come in for some unfair abuse of late ,yes he is out of form but hes still very young and learning his trade, it must also be remembered hes had a sickening injury to recover from , before that he was showing the sort of form alongside Jack that made some people less fearful of losing Cesc , and through no fault of his own has been overused this season, i feel we must give him time , support, and get off his back, or risk destroying the confidence of a hugely promising young talent, its my opinion that the more experienced players in the squad, have let us down more consistently than the youngsters, ie Song , Chamahk, at times Thomas Vermallen , and i include Walcott in these ranks as well, his non performances in some games have been criminal, but most of all, i hold the manager and the board culpable for our gut wrenching roller coaster of a season, for their criminal lack of urgency and nous in the transfer windows, and Wenger for his tactical ineptitude and farcical substitutions, as well as his complete failiure to motivate his players for games against perceived weak opposition, true title contenders take no game lightly , and do not rest on their laurels after a couple of outstanding displays, OGL goes on and on about intelligence and mental strength, where too many times this team displays neither, where was Songs intelligence on saturday when ceding the ball to Norwich for their 3rd goal ? where was Szecernys mental strength for the 1st and 3rd goals,? where in fact was the passion, the drive and the effort in the first half of a game we needed desperately to win?, thank god were not in a relegation battle going into the last game needing a win, if we were, i fear this lots mental strength would be sorely lacking, the manager has to shoulder most of the blame for these things. he identifies the players he needs , he picks the team , decides on tactics, makes or is supposed to make game changing substitutions, in short the buck stops with him, but how often do you hear him say "im sorry i got it wrong" ,it seems as though he is too stubborn and proud to admit he may make mistakes, he carries on doing things the same way, when most people would put their hands in the air and say, "bugger it back to the drawing board" just how many times do you need to fall flat on your face, before realizing your shoe laces have been tied together ?

  64. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    May 07, 2012, 14:59 #21998

    I hear you JCL. I've worn all the shirts displayed in the Toffs graphic over the years with pride, but you won't catch me wearing what looks like a botched QPR away kit posing as a new Arsenal "home" shirt.....as if this season's "away" jockey outfit wasn't bad enough....

  65. EborGooner

    May 07, 2012, 14:03 #21997

    There is clearly something wrong and we have not seen any improvement/progress over the last few years. Do we blame OGL for his lack of defensive coaching, his inability to change, his tactical naievety, failure to motivate players etc. Or do we blame players who should motivate themselves, have half an idea of what is required, and show some application and bottle. Even if OGL doesn't do defense our back 4 has experienced internationals, who have received defensive coaching elsewhere. Can't the players organise themselves defensively if OGL can't? Equally, the senior players COULD offer guidance/experience to the newcomers. I think Arteta has probably done that BUT it's worrying that The Ox (new) looks miles better than Gervinho (experienced). I have a friensd who claims that OGL has NO tactics or ideas other than pass, pass, pass. It certainly looks like it when many times an Arsenal player, with only the goalkeeper in front of him, tries to pass rather than shoot. I don't think any other Premier side shoots less than us, certainly no one else shoots less when they have the opportunity. Statistics anyone? Not sure even Messi would change things for us. Sure he'd be great going forward, but we'd still give away too much at the back. Also Bac, Kosser, and TV5 must be as good as any alternatives. So why do we see the same mistakes/errors week in/week out year in/year out? Coaching? Players personal preperation/pride? I have said before on these pages that confidence comes from winning. If not from winning then by KNOWING that your team mates will NOT let you down, and will be trying as hard as you, and be in (roughly) the right positions. Anyone really think that's true of this Arsenal squad? Next season will be more of the same. OGL isn't going anywhere. We can only hope that he wakes up to reality and employs and LISTENS to a proper number 2 who can question him and impart some defensive tactics. Given that Steve Bould would fit the bill it's worrying he has apparently turned down the job twice. Clearly he thinks nothing will change and doesn't want the job on those terms. Finally, having seen Podolski's highlights he looks like a direct replacement for RVP, which implies Robin is off! I hope I'm wrong but I see next season being more of the same (without RVP) and an even harder battle for that 4th place and CL qualification.

  66. JCL

    May 07, 2012, 12:46 #21996

    To compund my unhappiness at how badly we are stagnating, I am furious at the new home kit. Arsenal play in red with white sleeves. Another way the American owner and his marketing people are changing the Arsenal I knew. I am beginning to think I really will not my renew my season ticket,after 25 years, taking into account the cost as well: over £1300 a year for the rest of my life. Am very sadly reaching the decision that it is not worth it, given also that most games these days can be watched in other ways.

  67. Merse69

    May 07, 2012, 12:09 #21995

    This draw looks a lot better after yesterdays results. Seeing Norwich play live, it was easy to see how they turned over Spurs last month. The Arsenal's comeback and spirit in the second half was great, as was the home support, but the defence was back to its worst after the recent improvement. Ramsey's form is a real worry. After his terrible injury, he looks like a player who's missing 10%, and knows it. Hence the lack of confidence. Hopefully it's not permanent, but it could be the Eduardo situation all over again.

  68. RJ

    May 07, 2012, 12:06 #21994

    Don't get the criticism of Chesney - he made one mistake on Saturday, one unlucky deflection and one good goal let in. Yes, he is not the finished article - but in interviews he admits that. What I like though is that having made a mistake he didn't let that phase him and he got on with his game. But the problem is in front of the sticks, not between them - and it is not even the back five, it is the boys in midfield. let's hope for a cup final winning performance on Sunday, and that for once we win a game that matters.

  69. au revoir wenger

    May 07, 2012, 11:48 #21993

    ramsey is a pub footballer how the hell is he playing for Arsenal

  70. Red mist

    May 07, 2012, 11:47 #21992

    GoonerRon is Podolski world class? He is a player with loads to prove yet, just got relegated in Germany was a major flop at Bayern yes very good record at international level but so has the lanky ex spud for England doesn't mean much. He is def a decent player but if he was that good he wouldn't be coming to us one of the trophy winning clubs would have signed him.

  71. nugs

    May 07, 2012, 10:56 #21991

    How ramsey recieves the flack he does when song gets off scott free is beyond me, its no coincidence we look a lot more solid with arteta and rosicky in the same midfield doing all of songs donkey work while he floats around the pitch fouling people giving the ball away and trying to hold onto the ball for 5 mins even tho a pass is on! The home game vs milan summed it up for me when young oxlade spent the majority of the game playing as our defensive midfielder while song done as he wanted! The blokes a liability in my eyes and I personally would not have him on the bench when arteta and young jack are back let alone the starting 11.

  72. GoonerRon

    May 07, 2012, 10:44 #21990

    Incredibly frustrating defensive performance against Norwich, especially so since we had achieved a number of clean sheets over the past 6 weeks or so, it's clear the balance in midfield was not correct and we miss Arteta and Wilshere in this regard. That said, we are third in the league and are therefore outperforming the higher wage bills of Chelsea and Liverpool and considerably higher spending clubs beneath us. Yes, we could do more with the money we spend and I'd expect a lot of the loan players to leave and free up cash for RVP's offer and hopefully some more signings, to add to Podolski (who is a world class playr who was signed early, as everyone on here was asking for). The teams above us are better at the moment, but so they should be, Citeh have spent half a billion on players on the last 5 years for ****s sake.

  73. Unbeaten 03/04

    May 07, 2012, 10:05 #21989

    I am so happy that I ended having a few more quids in my pocket since I promised myself that I will not spend a penny on Arsenal from sky sports to buying any Arsenal items related....! Until there are major changes then we are gonna experience all the same scenario again. The funny this is so far I haven't read any articles who's against the author! Where are all the pro wengers etc....! I can see Stan and the rest of the board laughing all the way to the bank (probably including wenger)!!! Where's our Arsenal? We can only make ourselves heard of our unhappiness in the only 1 game left now!!! I feel for the away fans though.... (carry on being braves my friends....)

  74. Mike

    May 07, 2012, 9:08 #21988

    Got to admit that not only is Arteta being missed, but so too is Walcott - In the cold light of day and despite the result, I actually enjoyed the game - RVP was denied an blatent penalty in the last couple of minutes. The game was end to end stuff. Interesting to note that there has not been a single penalty at the Emirates this season for the home side. The defense was in a shambles for two of the goals and the goalie did not do the basics for the other. I see Bakary broke his leg again???? Spurs fluffed their lines and so too did Newcastle, so on to Saturday - great stuff

  75. Arsene is a liar

    May 07, 2012, 6:55 #21987

    "I don't understand why some fans are frustrated, I am absolutely sure we will win our trophy of the CL qualification," said Wenger in his yesterday's press conference.

  76. Joe S.

    May 07, 2012, 0:34 #21986

    Wouldn't it be great if we lost on Sunday and those responsible for presently running the club were shown the back door while a new addministration starts to get on with the job of rebuilding towards a three year plan that will once again see us competing for the highest honors. Well you can only dream because this stagnation is sickening. As things stand I don't really care what happens at the Hawthorns. I'm sick of Wegners sound bites and self aggrendising, sick of his apologists and sick of the fans who take more comfort in watching Spurs'ineptitude than the fact that their own team sucks. Soon this season will end. I won't make the same mistake as last summer believing the club was in the capable hands of true football people who would have stopped the rot and brought in quality players to get the Arsenal going forward again. Fat chancce. Also sick of the ultra apologists who use every irrelavant pedantic excuse to prop up their man Arsene. No,at least this transfer window I will be disracted by the European Championships ( Forza Italia ) and the Olympics ( Can Australia beat the UK in the medal count? - probably not) . What I would like to happen is to notrecieve any Arsenal news until the first championship game in August and wish to be pleasntly surprised by RVP still wearing the captain's band and a host of new faces both on the feild and on the bench but again this does not look like happening.

  77. Big Andy

    May 06, 2012, 23:02 #21985

    I've got a problem. I want us to play in the Champions' League next season, and I know we need the CL money, but I also want Wenger out. So next Sunday I will be watching the West Brom game with mixed feelings. If we lose, and Spurs eventually qualify, then that could spell the end for Wenger. Good. But no CL for us. Bad. But if we finish third then we can kiss goodbye to any chance of progress next season. Wenger has simply lost the ability to win major trophies, but he won't be sacked. But the future of our club depends on getting a new manager. So, like I said, I've got a problem.

  78. Wombledin

    May 06, 2012, 21:52 #21984

    Premature article that should have been written after todays results. You look like a bit of a noddy now saying that you didn't expect anything from Villa (a draw with spurs was a fair bet) and 3rd place looks blown. Its still in our hands and no doubt the ingrained culture of "just do the bare minimum to secure CL qualification" at the Club will see us beat West Brom to secure third, more mediocre players rewarded with renewed and fatter contracts, more kiddies purchased, and Wenger given a new, fatter contract for winning another trophy of CL qualification.

  79. LJB

    May 06, 2012, 21:28 #21983

    For the past 7 yrs OGL has not won a single match that REALLY mattered;finals,semis,CL second legs.We are limping to the finish line relying on the f**k up of others to secure CL football next season.Over this period we have had an everchanging cast of players,but one constant;Wenger and his useless buddy Primorac.It doesn't take a genius to work out what or WHO the problem is.Wengers reign will be remembered by many not for the triumphs,but the disasters.It will also be remembered for the selling of our soul and moving to the Reebok mark2.Once chelsea move into Battersea (paid for by the Quataris;no 25 yr debt for them) our stadium will be shown up for the architecturally bland bowl it really is.All the budget was spent on the diamond club instead of the exterior. But alot of Gooners have HAD ENOUGH.Wenger WILL be driven out even though the board will never sack him.RVP has told Wenger he is leaving;that is why Wenger did not go to the football writers dinner last week.The fans are sick of always losing our best players,revolt is in the air ,i can taste it.BTW that Untold Arsenal site is an utter disgrace with its accusations against all and sundry.No wonder fans of other teams hate gooners.They are bad losers like their hero.Oh and Juve are the new Invincibles,AND they have moved into a new stadium this season.I thought moving home meant you were a miracle worker just getting in the CL,seems i have been sold a lie!!!!

  80. Harold

    May 06, 2012, 21:11 #21982

    Simon Fry- Why the ecstasy over todays results? The only good reason I can see for us qualifying for the Champions League is to stop tottenham doing so. Otherwise it just guarantees more of the same failure. Wenger won't spend the money on the big players needed to challenge for the big trophies, we'll play well early and mid season before the pressure kicks in (which will excite and fool our many many gullible memory-of-a-goldfish AKB's), then embarrassingly crumble away as soon as the going gets tough. What's the point, year after year? And Steve Bould won't change anything, he's already been indoctrinated in The Wenger Way. No, give me The Europa League until we get a new manager, and although I'm sure Wenger won't prioritise it, we might win it despite him, because we sure as hell aren't going to win anything because of him.

  81. muzzlejuice

    May 06, 2012, 21:09 #21981

    Yes once again we are dreadful but remembering back to September if anyone would have offered 5th and the channel 5 league we would have bitten their hand off perhaps our current position shouldn't be so much of a disappointment. I know we should not not accept this but with our managers faith in some of the dross he regularly puts in an arsenal shirt and an embarising lack of tactical nous we realistically can not expect to do any better than we do as long as things stay the same.I realise that due to today's unexpected results,all hail Alex potato head, I should be feeling a lot more positive about things but I cant help feeling that all we have done is now move the season defining balls up to the hawthorns a week today.god damn it arsenal this relationship is pretty one sided at present

  82. CanadaGooner

    May 06, 2012, 20:54 #21980

    are chelsea in a better position that arsenal in finishing 6th but with the FA Cup; i dont think so, on account of how much money they've spent. however, after much thought, i think i would have prefered to win the FA Cup and finished in 6th. albeit for a club like arsenal, we need to keep appearing with the elite of european club footbal to have a chance at getting players like podolski as we cant match up to the others (not even liverpool) in a bid for these players and we wont offer enough money. so, by qualifying for the CL some players whom chelsea or liverpool could lure with money, may opt to join arsenal to get CL action. would liverpool swap their carling cup for a chance to compete against europe's best? ofcourse. i dont think CL would miss arsenal if we dont participate for one season; so, yes, i would have prefered to see us win the carling cup and miss out in the CL because i firmly believe what our team lacks is a taste of victory and the pedigree required to keep winning trophies. perhaps if they can win one, they'll crave more and win more trophies. right now, we can only take what we have; it's been a slightly satisfying season from a negative perspective, seeing liverpool squander all that money only to win a carling cup, seeing chelseas huff, puff and only end up with an FA Cup and the inglorious europa tournament next season (rubbing shoulders with teams they could buy with the money they spent on torres alone), seeing one of the manchester clbs end up with ZERO trophies and lastly but most satisfyingly, seeing Tottenham huff, puff and ending up with no trophies and possibly finishing 5th (come on newcastle!!!!) or at least finishing behind us yet again. last season you were all singing owen coyle's praise and bolton played the supposedly non-allardyce flashy footie and now they're on their way to the spectaculer championship league. largely same players. are we to blame the manager?

  83. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 06, 2012, 19:57 #21979

    @ SAM no your not the only one he had a poor game yesterday if he thinks he has arrived he certainly has not he still has a lot to learn i think he can be a world class keeper for us. In the class of big dave ? yes but like i've said on here before with the proper coaching what are the keeper coaches doing it certainly hasn't done anything for our other keepers in fairness the defence hasn't exactly helped matters of late but i do think things need to be freshened up on the goal keeping front as well.

  84. lee afc

    May 06, 2012, 19:31 #21978

    Whilst some of our co called rivals were warming up for a title run-in or an fa cup final we are desperately clinging on to the coveted 3rd/4th place european dream. Wenger stated in the press this week that if we 'get jack wilshere and DIABY back to full fitness we will become a force for the title next season' ABSOLUTELY MORONIC statement....'we were poor' stated wenger..he has had all week to motivate and tactically beat a mid table Norwich..I am so much looking forward to next Sunday evening when at least we can say that this depressing season is over and hopefully so is the managers reign..

  85. Matt

    May 06, 2012, 19:26 #21977

    First of all let's give Norwich some credit, they deserved their point, and if not for some missed chances could have walked away with three points. The table does not lie and we deserve what we got in the end. Someone explain how it is not possible to motivate and focus on one game per week and not get a result. This is totally unprofessional at this level. It starts with the board not putting any pressure on Wenger and the lack of investment in the squad. Yes we are a decent outfit but why do we think we can brush off so called smaller teams with ease. This is total arrogance beyond belief. There is no competition in the squad which leads to complacency, Song and Chesney being two obvious examples. We will never win anything with Song and his lazy attitude and Ramsey has just run out of gas, he will come good in the end but the lad needs a break. As for upfront, Chamak did provide some useful moments but how can you expect him to score with so little game time this season. Being ultra critical RVP did have two gilt edged chances and fluffed both! Unbelievably we still have it in our own hands at WBA next week to laim 3rd place but going on yesterady's performance we would be fortunate to get a point. Still keep the faith.

  86. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 06, 2012, 19:11 #21976

    arsene must have a hell of a lot of get out of jail cards one of them has well and truly been used today i never thought for one minute i would be thanking that excuse for a manager mcleish but that is where we were today having to rely on the likes of him and his team to do us a favor at least we're not the only bottlers in north london it's back in our hands now we need a win against west brom but we said that before the norwich game can we rely on this team to beat west brom ? i don't think i need to answer that.

  87. SAM

    May 06, 2012, 18:40 #21975

    Am I the only one thinking our goal keeper is poor-I have never seen him make a good save to keep the team in play-anytime our defense is under pressure you just know a goal will be scored agaisnt us one way or the other-bad inept defending to the core- our defense is just a waste of space season after season and yet we claim we have a prof of a manager. Useless wenger was only thought good because of a team he inherited from george Graham. He has since taking the team to the dogs. Jurging from past games i know we will lose or draw at west brom-mark my word. year in year out this useless manager of ours keep playing jokes with stupid philosophies that dont work. why is he there? is he the only so called good manager in the world- it is a shame - a big team like arsenal. WE NEED A CHANGE, WE NEED AN AMBITIOUS MANAGER WHO IS READY TO ACCEPT MISTAKES AND FIND SOLUTIONS. WE NEED A FORWARD THINKER-WENGER AND PRICE ARE NOT. THEY HAVE GOT SO COMFORTABLE WHERE THEY ARE TJHAT THEY CARE LESS WAS SO EVER.

  88. Alastair Kerr

    May 06, 2012, 18:04 #21974

    Results on Sunday have ensured that 3rd place is back in our hands again. However, I wouldn't have any great confidence in Arsenal going to The Hawthorns and winning. Perhaps next years shirt should have had a big yellow streak up the back - the majority of this squad are bottlers who cave the first bit of pressure or expectation.

  89. Andreas

    May 06, 2012, 16:58 #21973

    When it got to 3-3 I was reminded of the game vs Norwich in 1987/88 season. The game o'leary beat the appearance record. My thinking was if we score a winning fourth then that would show to me this has what it takes to challenge for the league next season. This didn't happen. It was noticeable that gervinho played better once ramsey had been removed and that of the 3 last day signings in august none of them started. Two due to injury. Since BFG has been out we've started to conceded silly goals, since arteta's been out we have no cohesion or discilpline in the midfield. Essentially, we're ending the season with the team that started the season. I wonder if they've learnt anything? From what I witnessed yesterday, the answer has to be no.

  90. Simon Fry

    May 06, 2012, 16:24 #21972

    Thank you Man City and Villa - thats all i can say!!!

  91. Tony Evans

    May 06, 2012, 16:19 #21971

    Nothing I can add to most of the other comments. Depressingly familar story. Can't defend and that sums it up, as it has done for far too long now.

  92. RJ

    May 06, 2012, 16:18 #21970

    I remain of the view that I would rather be in Champs League than win the FA Cup - we won't win Champs League, but the money and prestige is important for bringing in big signings. yesterday was terrible, and I have never been through such an emotional rollercoaster at the Emirates. But after today's results, it is back in our hands and a win at West Brom delivers 3rd. If we win, then we will deserve 3rd because the league table does not lie - am I confident we will win - no. Sagna will be a big loss, as has been Arteta. At least with Sagna, Coquelin looks an OK replacement. But midfield has to step up. I thought Gervinho had a pretty decent second half, and Chamakh for once got himself into good positions - maybe the thought that he is now in the shop window has woken the boy up. We need a huge effort next weekend. Come on you Gooners.

  93. CanadaGooner

    May 06, 2012, 16:14 #21969

    I see emotions have been running wild as usual on this website. Fair enough. I can relate to that. we're all human. what annoys me are those idiots on here who say we're not allowed to have our ups and downs, and we have to stick with an unchanged opinion (crazy aint it?). I dont know how many time I've said it this season: where arsenal finish in the table wont be down to how well we perform, but will always depend on how well our challengers perform. they're simply not good enough (spurs, liverpool, newcastle...). to think that 68 or 70 points could still be good enough to clinch 3rd place tells it all. as for our performance against Norwich, if teams like wigan could beat a title-chasing Man Utd and Everton could jeopardize their charge, potentially leaving united without a trophy this season: I'm surprised nobody is talking about Fergie's capitulation: isnt this united? this is what they do best and have done for countless seasons? so, Norwich upsetting arsenal shouldnt come as a surprise, after the long list of teams we've lost to this season, i think we got away lightly and yesterday's match could have very easily ended 1 - 2 to norwich. this has been a strange season and arsenal will still finish 3rd. but the sets of donkeys we call players: who come in and take home hundreds of thousands of pounds in wages, with no ambition, no intention and no motivatio, do need to look at eachother and bury their heads in shame. it's all too easy to blame the manager or management: do we now blame Fergie for united falling from champions league, failing to do well in the lower europa, FA cup, Carling, and losing the premiership in what would appear to be such a tame manner: no, you have to look at their players: fergie hasnt changed; he's still the best in the league. we have to look to next season and really hope we clear out some of these players; some dont even need replacing (that's how poor they are); just getting rid does the trick. come on you gunners!!! one final win this season please!!!!!!

  94. Travis C.

    May 06, 2012, 16:09 #21968

    Many have noted that we don't win when Arteta isn't in the team. I reckon it's no coincidence that we don't win when Ramsey is in the team. Where are all his defenders after witnessing him jog about the pitch yesterday? Utterly useless.

  95. ed enough......

    May 06, 2012, 15:07 #21967

    Really..... relying on Villa to do us a favour shows how bad things are at Arsenal now. Pathetic defending again yesterday...how many times have we heard that over the past 7 years...

  96. Nick

    May 06, 2012, 14:57 #21966

    Absobloodylutely AWFULL, Song is a disgrace i was screaming at my computer screen for him to pass simple or just hoof it upfield, anything but what he chose to do, when it broke for Norwich i knew what was going to happen, it seemed to unveil in slow motion before my eyes and then i turned the air blue in exasperation, my wife has only just started talking to me again, ten minutes to go and we bottled it, no top team would do that in a game that didnt matter, let alone one with the importance of this one, Song is NOT a defensive midfielder, he hasnt the discipline or the intelligence for the role, and i have lost count of the times his IDIOCY has cost us points, but Wenger cant see it , he cant see that Gervinho is a lightweight waster , or that diaby is never going to be fit for a full season , or that we need to WORK on the defense , the famous back five became as good as they were by hard work and repition in training, and to say that subconciously we underestimated Norwich is an indictment of his management, its HIS JOB to make sure we dont have that mindset, i despair of this team and for our club , i think RVP will go (why should he stay?), and i doubt that he will be replaced, (podolski is good but not that good) and this time next season we will be exactly where we are now ,potless and hopeless, and wenger will be trotting out the same old excuses, and the board will be counting the money , we the fans are being shafted by the money men.

  97. Peter Wain

    May 06, 2012, 14:40 #21965

    Another appalling performance by a bunch of overpaid p[rims donnas who are simply not fit to wear the shirt. When oh when is the manager and board going to do something about it. We have too many players who are overpaid and useless and the manager talks of buying top quality. Where is the quality in Gervinho and why is in the side ahead of the Ox? Where is the left sided mid field player who can kick with his left foot. Where is the left fall back who can defend. We do not possess one. Where is the defensive midfield player who is defensive and gives the centre halves some protection. The answer to these questions on a post card please as I do not see where we go from here. Likley now to finish 5th and lose RVP. Brilliant management Gazidis must be sacked and take the Yank with him if the club is to progress.

  98. Rob

    May 06, 2012, 14:32 #21964

    In the last Editorial Kev, you wondered whether - if we got third - it might vindicate Wenger ? I and a lot of others made plain it wouldn't and for all the reasons we saw - yet again ! - yesterday. All these problems go back four or five years and the reason they do so, is the same Manager is replicating them season after season. And as you said - it'll be the same when we kick off again in August. Only direct action by the fans in the stadium can now tip it. Until there are concerted chants of 'Wenger Out !' and a few banners wouldn't go amiss either, Arsenal are stuck in a permanent Groundhog Day loop of capitulation and failure, fueled by the Board's myopia and indifference and the Managers deranged and unrelenting ego. How many more seasons have to pass before this point of action is reached ? Your guess is as good as mine.

  99. iMac

    May 06, 2012, 14:27 #21963

    Even if we somehow scrape into cl place next week aw must go. I am sick of this " Harlem grobetrotters" style of football. The entertainment is fine for the neutral and tv but thats it. You cannot ignore the defensive side of the game if you want results. We need a manager to come in and provide tactics, organisation, shape, discipline and purpose. This manager only knows "carry on passing" and that's it. We are constantly found wanting when we haven't got the ball. Our players are just going where they want without spotting any sign of danger, headless chickens which stems from the manager. Song is not a holding midfielder but I believe he could be a good creative midfielder under the right leadership and a proper holding midfielder needs to be brought in to protect the back four. Unfortunately I can't see and changes next season and we will just have to endure the same.

  100. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    May 06, 2012, 14:25 #21962

    Andrew Cohen - yes, a fearful kick up the squad's backside is required, and David Moyes would be the best man to deliver it. Unfortunately, I do believe a certain knighted manager of a north - western club would exert his disproportionate influence to prevent that scenario from ever happening. "Get yer grubby wee soft southern hawnds offa ma laddie Moyes" etc.

  101. Jason

    May 06, 2012, 14:15 #21961

    I sit at the north end.Everyone around me blamed the players.I blamed Wenger & Rice.Their team selection,their tatics,their fault.Quicker Rice is pensioned off,the better.We need fresh ideas.Wenger has gone stale and has been for many years.Sick of it.

  102. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 06, 2012, 13:59 #21960

    Excellent piece kev yesterday was really unforgivable only one word comes to mind (bottlers) again third was there for the taking they couldn't do it how many times have we said that before this team is just not good enough end off your right where has our arsenal gone and this team needs a complete overhaul throughout starting with the coaches.It's out of our hands now and i'm not even going to mention the scenario that can occur it doesn't bear thinking about we could actually finish fifth.You know something the hierarchy from the dougtrouserer (courtesy of fozzy and his mate )right down to the manager and team (with the exception of two or three players) dont deserve champions league football the fans do their the ones who pack the stadium every game and follow the team all over the country through thick and thin at the cost of hundreds and hundreds of pounds they deserve to see the best at the emirates but the other lot maybe this might wake them up with the thought of losing millions in champions league money its not over yet of course but like i said its out of our hands we have to rely on others bottling it.Your spot on kev some serious questions need to be asked in the board room but like you said nobody has the balls to tell the manager where he's going wrong and what to do about it maybe after a season in the europa league that might change.

  103. chrisy boy

    May 06, 2012, 13:39 #21959

    i wanted wenger and the board out at the start of the season, then we went on that 9 game unbeaten run and i started to think have i been to hard on wenger and can we at least salvage a small amount of respect by finishing 3rd and with around 75 points which would at least be an improvement on recent seasons, but once again when we realy need to kick on we have failed. Since winning in cardiff in 2005 we have at least been in the position to win titles or cups at the turn of the year and not once and i say again not once have we gone on to win a trophy. League cup defeats, league cup semi final defeats, champions league final defeat, champions league semi final defeat, F.A cup semi final defeat and no better than a 3rd place finish in the premiership. Now if wenger had just turned 2 of those mentioned above we would be more likely not to be once again questioning wenger and the board. Kevin you are dead right we could have Franz Beckenbauer, Paolo Maldini or whoever as defensive coach and wenger would still do it his way and not take advice. Wenger is to stuck in his ways, the board are all past there sell by date and the medicle team are just a joke. Even if we do get 3rd or 4th we need a change, Roman and his billions have just won chelsea another cup, yet usmanov is kept waiting in the wings like a naughter schoolboy. Lets make a clean sweep of things and bring in usmanov before things get any worse. So fed up with the current set up at our great club.

  104. Stevesam

    May 06, 2012, 13:29 #21958

    If Clichy was a poor defender then Gibbs is shocking. Both of Norwich's first half goals could have been prevented by Gibbs putting in a solid block or challenge. After we go 3 - 2 up the back four should keep their shape and position and defend, it is basic, TV5 should be leading from the back and organising the defence. Song has now become a 'big time charlie' and defending is not his responsibility. The last two games against Stoke and Norwich he has warmed up before the game with headphones on, standards have certainly dropped amongst the players and this shows a lack of respect to the coaching staff,we are sadly in decline. For certain at Boardroom level the decision to sell RVP has been made if we do not achieve CL funding, the sale shall make up the deficit. We now make profits by selling assets, not by being competitive.

  105. Gee

    May 06, 2012, 13:26 #21957

    A worrying sign is that our dug out is virtually empty for the entire game. Whereas the opposition dug out has their manager in it for virtually the entire 90 mins. More than ever we need a tactician who looks at the opposition and can put together a system and plan to overcome them. Wenger has had it

  106. StuartL

    May 06, 2012, 13:24 #21956

    I would have thought that Arsene would be ashamed that a team with nothing to play for had more guts, commitment and determination than his team of pampered prima-donna's, who just think that by turning up the game is won. I was told at London Colney last year that we don't alter tactics to cope with the opposition as " we are Arsenal, we let them worry about us" !!! Which most appear to be able to do quite well. We have conceeded as many goals as any team in the top half of the table, yet nothing is done season in season out to change our lack of effort in centre midfield - Denilson, Song, Ramsey, Diaby are all the same, little effort and couldn't care less. Without Arteta's know how and defensive nous we have nothing to stop the opposition midfeild breaking forward at will. Tick tock, Arsene your time is up.

  107. johnnyh

    May 06, 2012, 13:11 #21955

    you hit the nail on the head kev. our champions league participation is totally financial.the board have absolutely no interest in us winning.it just allows the club to continue to charge an arm and a leg for season tickets. how the hell can we have any ambition of winning ANYTHING with players like chamakh,gibbs,ramsey,rosicky and that clown gervinho in the squad. every season its like groundhog day and we suckers put up with it,constantly believing that next season will be better.if we fail to qualify for the champions league then wenger will have lost his get out of jail free card and his deluded supporters will see that it is time to get rid of this wretched manager.

  108. Vince

    May 06, 2012, 13:06 #21954

    I agree, for years now we have seen a pattern of Arsenal self destructing in crucial games or at important times of the season not quite having what it takes. I think some of it is player attitude and some due to management. I still think Wenger is a good manager but also believe that some sort of change is needed, whether that is a new number 2 or Wenger to move 'upstairs' i really dont know.

  109. Ken Dodd

    May 06, 2012, 12:39 #21953

    By jove,by jove what a beautiful day to get Sir Cliff to drive up to London Colney,'park the bus' in front of Wenger's defensive coaches and shout:''We're all going on a summer holiday!''

  110. Gary

    May 06, 2012, 12:30 #21952

    Nothing summed up the mentality of the players we have now better than the tweet that twat Frimpong posted on Tweeter that Song should have been in the running for PFA player of the year and he should have been in the PFA team of the year.What planet is this clown on? Wenger has created a loser mentality at the club by rewarding failure.Nothing summed it up better than giving the hopeless Djourou a contract extenstion.A wage bill of £125m a year a manager on £7m a year for winning absolutely nothing.Welcome to Loser FC and farewell RVP.You are too good to be playing alongside crap like Song Ramsey and Gervinho.New tweet from Frimpong:Song should win the Ballon D'or in front of Messi

  111. Camgooner

    May 06, 2012, 12:20 #21951

    I hate to say it, but… Wenger was tactically outwitted by a team with nothing to play for by the cunning ruse of playing 442. That has to be it for RvP. The only silver lining was that Chamakh played well: he clearly hopes to get a good transfer.

  112. Charles

    May 06, 2012, 12:14 #21950

    Based on recent evidence, what on earth makes you think we will finish fourth? A sixth place finish is more likely. Can you please take down that stupid gooner referendum?

  113. Carlos

    May 06, 2012, 12:06 #21949

    Truly dreadful, I reckon we'll get 5th. The league table puts everyone in their place in the end. The most illuminating passage of play was the 4-5 minutes between the 3-2 and Norwich's equalizer, when we produced the sort of football seen on school playgrounds in the lunch hour, a sort of "next goal wins". The team were predictable with the ball, only made to look good because the Norwich back line was a bout the same standard as ours; and lazy and submissive without it. Until there is a change in approach we will continue to drift.

  114. jjetplane

    May 06, 2012, 11:59 #21948

    Worst scenario is finishing fourth because Wenger can rest yet again on some euro change for Russian pockets. Better if we do not qualify as we are as staid as Man Utd albeit alot further down the chain. Chelsea will kick us out of top four next season and the Spuds, as wobbly as they are, can still say they are a better team than us. Listening to Wenger on saturday reminded me what an unattractive, spent force we have at the helm. The man is listless and has infected Arsenal through and through. Ha ha - on a lighter note, cant help laughing at how Fabregas has consolidated his losership. He looks as ugly as his ex-boss. Oh well - buckets and spades time ......

  115. Harold

    May 06, 2012, 11:58 #21947

    What's the point in hoping desperately for Champions League qualification when we've got no chance of winning it? All we get is a tedious group stage,elimination in the knock-out phase against the first decent team we play, and £20m Wenger won't spend. Watching Athletic Bilbao qualify for the Europa League final made me remember how much fun success can be even if it's at a lower level. Arsenal are now at that lower level, so let's not pretend otherwise. Kroenke has bought into Wenger's outdated, blinkered philosophy, Gazidis was chosen by Wenger and the front loaded sponsorship deals don't expire for another 2 seasons so nothing will change any time soon. And then there are the fans, many of whom will NEVER turn against Wenger not matter how far below the elite he drags us. Fans CAN make a positive long term difference, it happens at many clubs, but given the acceptence culture I witness in the stadium on matchdays and messageboards after, that's not going to happen at our club. So I'd be happy if we ended up in the Europa League next season, as there's no point in getting above ourselves.

  116. Andrew Cohen

    May 06, 2012, 11:49 #21946

    Well everybody has already raised every pertinent point I can think of about the team and the Manager's shortcomings. What staggers me is that the AKB's are still there in numbers, on this site and on the street. Wenger will stubbornly keep RVP and let him run his contract down. Our issues will not be addressed and next season will be an even less enjoyable experience. Mr Wenger's removal will, I believe, most likely come about because of illness. He bears every sign of a man on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I said some time ago that the Board are being very cruel not to remove him from office. Not surprising really, as they have abdicated every last vestige of responsibility for the club (as opposed to the company). Can the Editor please run a poll on who the AMG's consider will be best to clean up the disaster that is coming. I would have thought that someone extremely tough will have to start the job, even if we try and get someone more glamourous later. Hughes or Moyes. We need someone who inspires fear, because I suspect that many of the players who we currently think nothing of, might well perform with proper coaching and management.

  117. challenger

    May 06, 2012, 11:46 #21945

    Spot on Kev ! .. I, as a regular reader to your posts, was hoping to read more critic talk towards those idiots yesterday. Sometimes being too critic is stress reliever ! please slam those clowns with your words next time as we are surely losing the next match. You want to respect AW, I mean deeply you really want to, but he gives you no chance. How is that difficult to secure 3rd place?! and How many players we signed last summer? you are all wrong, only 2 men as I see it Arteta and the OX. a team like that will never win anything and I finally letting go of all my hopes and dreams for the next season. Gooners in good and bad times? I have only seen the bad and the ugly. enough for me.

  118. It started in 1974

    May 06, 2012, 11:18 #21944

    First of all thanks RVP. You have done all you can to pull this Arsenal side out of the dark mess it was in and have kept us going as much as one single player can. You deserve credit and if you decide to leave, your place in the history of our club and in the hearts of the fans should be secure. You are one of the best players in the world and you need to win something before you hang up your boots. I would not blame you for it. Wenger does not look like he has a trophy in him. What he has been able to do is get his sides to have episodes in the season when they do well but these are broken up by slumps. Bit like the weather....inconsistent. In the past that was enough to get us into the top 4 as the other teams were not much good. But now the top middle and bottom of the EPL has teams who are that much better. The top used to be the Arsenal/Manu/chelsea show....now City and Spurs are in the group, and teams like Newcastle, Liverpool and Everton will remain a force. The middle has tough and quite skillfull teams like Stoke, Fulham and Sunderland who have enough to be taken seriously. Then the bottom or unfancied teams seem to have enough of a combination of battling players and the odd good player who can hurt you - stand up Wigan, QPR, WBA, Swansea. They all know how to hurt us...work hard, close down the space, hit us on the break, use set pieces well and get us irritated by picking up free kicks. Wenger still seems to be living in a world where he thinks its like it was 10 years ago when there was a huge gulf between us and the rest. He has been a great manager and I would like him to build up a coaching team around him who can bring him up to date with whats really happening now in the EPL. Im not sure that Tony Adams fits into that. Patrick Vieiria....whats he doing at City...a desk job? He would surely have something to offer on the staff at Arsenal and the ability to connect with foreign players. I'd also be scared of going back into the dressing room as Alex Song if I gave the ball away. Sol Campbell has just retired....thats 20 years of experience and intelligence that our defensive organisation could use. How about adding Bergkamp who is developing some capability as a coach at Ajax? Or...if you dont want a team find a solid assistant...go for Roberto Martinez as an assisntant manager...bring some new ideas in. Then there are 3 new players we need. A good defensive/destructive midfielder to replace Song. Another striker so we have Podolski plus AN.Other. A good, threatening winger to help us get behind teams so that we have the OX plus another.

  119. Lee

    May 06, 2012, 11:10 #21943

    Can we please get some ambitious footballing people back at our beloved club!!! And not business corporate clowns from all over that just want a piece of the AFC financial pie!! Home and away for 21 yrs but now fed up with this regime that allows players wearing the famous shirt to not turn up and allow these sort of displays on a too regular basis!! Time for CHANGE!

  120. Gare Kekeke

    May 06, 2012, 11:08 #21942

    The roller coaster of 2011/12 that we have experienced was summed up against Norwich. Credit to them. It’s the least they deserved and it’s good that they have Premier League football again next season. As for us, well I did say just recently that the final three two games should not be taken lightly and surprise surprise, the second of them were. Yet again, defensively we were a shambles. It doesn’t cost a fortune to coach a team how to defend. If Wenger can’t do it, he should employ someone who can leaving Wenger to concentrate on his strengths and whatever misgivings some of us Gooners have with Wenger, he has many. You can put Kompany, Vidic or even Terry in that backline, our defensive strategy means we are liable to concede goals, even when we win. Can’t say I’m surprised to see our backline struggle with Grant Holt. The typical big man up front that Wenger loathes and dismisses yet is the thorn of an Arsenal centre back bar Sol Campbell since 2006. Drogba, Zamora, Carroll at Newcastle and now Holt. When we will ever learn? Someone should send Song a DVD of Claude Makelele’s best bits. As a playmaker, he has developed well but should not forget his primary role in the team, just like Graeme Souness for Liverpool during their halcyon days. I also can’t say I’m surprised on the No.2 front as I too heard a whisper that it could be Neil Banfield. Sol Campbell said recently that Wenger doesn’t like being challenged on the training ground and Banfield (bless him) probably fits the bill. So all those calling for Bould’s promotion, it won’t happen. But we shall see come the close season. I’ll reiterate that West Brom won’t be easy as the Baggies players would be keen to give a great send-off to the new England manager, particularly at home. It’s sad that it’s come to this. Lastly, big up to Sagna. I think I speak on behalf of all Gooners when I say I feel for him. A bloody good player who probably also comes across as a general all-round good guy. Up The Arsenal!

  121. JB

    May 06, 2012, 11:00 #21941

    Totally agree, far too many average players and far too much money wasted on their salaries. Cut our losses and pay them off and rebuild now. This includes paying off the manager who sanctions all the purchases and contract extensions. If he cant motivate them yesterday then he never will.

  122. Viking

    May 06, 2012, 10:59 #21940

    We've seen it time after time, same mistakes again and again, who is to blame, the manager or the players. Only one thing has been a constant throughout this period, the manager, he cannot motivate his team, they have no tactics, game plan and have no ability to close out a game. Our football is now slow, sideways with zero pace. We have ineffecive wide players and a no one in midfield who can boss the game. The defence are all over the place and in reserve we have a bigger bunch of clowns in Santos, Djorou, and Pers ( the oil tanker, Wenger could beat him in a race ). It's extremely worrying that Wenger has already said that next season we will have Diaby and Wilshere back, we'll also have Vela, Bendy, and Denillson, could it get any worse?!! The amount of poor players in our squad is shocking, and there is only 1 person to blame. I look at Spurs and they have 2 class wingers who consistently terrorise defences, we on the other hand have Wally, Gervinho who is weak, cannot shoot and looks like a headless chicken playing ahead of our one true class wide player, ie the Ox. Poor kid, he deserves his chance, he makes things happen, but no, we persist with the same personnel who continue to make the same mistakes. Taxi for Wenger, the time has come to exit the building, there's been too many mistakes this season, any other big club would not put up with this, so why are we?!! Or are we not a big club anymore?!!!!

  123. Moscow Gooner

    May 06, 2012, 10:53 #21939

    Norwich s 'tactics' were incredibly simple yesterday: flood the midfield, break quickly down the right, quick ball in low to the box, Holt gets to it ahead of keeper/centre backs. First half that happened five or six times. In contrast Gervinho always seems to over elaborate and want to beat the extra man; he s got a huge amount of skill on the ball - but he s not paid to show us that; we know that already. Every time he got the ball we lost pace in the attack. All this said: a blatant hand ball in the box and RvP pushed over: two clear cut penalties. Awful refereeing. Defending which went beyond sloppy to the criminally negligent.

  124. Theo's Bikini-Line

    May 06, 2012, 10:50 #21938

    I posted a comment on the day the last poll was put up questioning whether we really were 'comfortable in 3rd' and said that the options were misleading. Nevertheless, the final results indicating 70% preferred being in our position rather than Chelsea's - bearing in mind that that they were choosing to eschew any chance of winning a trophy for the possibility of a seeing a few group games in the CL before the inevitable elimination the first time we meet a decent side - was staggering. Even more so when considering that recently we've had the habit of inevitably cocking things up at the end of the season Sadly it seems the AKB's are still in the majority at Arsenal so we'll continuing along this road for a good while yet - especially if Peter Hill Wood gets his way - and that doesn't auger well for the supporters or our club.

  125. Rich

    May 06, 2012, 10:44 #21937

    I have been questioning Wengers lack of tactics and coaching for several seasons now and all i get back in return is "who could do a better job?". Well based on this seasons performances i would say many could, Lambert, Martinez,Jol and dare i say it Pulis and his Rugby team have all worked out ways to play against us, and as far as i am aware we spend no time working on the opposition during training before a game. If this is true then it is a disgrace that our manager thinks we just have to turn up to beat teams, and based on performances over the past few seasons he is clearly off his trolly along with most of the squad who will do whatever he says without question. Many of the players in this squad are not good enough and its worrying how low we have sunk when fans lord players like Song, who i agree has improved but still makes so many simple mistakes just like the third goal yesterday, wasting possession when all we had to do was keep the ball or dare i suggest lump it up the other end and get back into formation. But that's not football is it Arsene??.. People nowadays only seem to focus on who we are signing as if that will solve all the problems, but whats the point if the manager fails to give them proper coaching and improve them tactically, we could sign Messi and it would not make a blind bit of difference. Wheres the pride from the defence and midfield from keeping a clean sheet or closing out a game like yesterday ?. They get in front and then run around like idiots bombing forward and then like amazed when the other team dare to score another cos we are stupid enough to all be out of position and giving the ball away, and its not the first time we have all seen it happen, which makes it even more frustrating. Aresene has done wonderful things for this club but it clear his time is up and a new man is needed to take us forward, someone who understands tactics and squad motivation beyond giving players an improved contract and believing that is motivation enough to work harder and suddenly develop a winning mentality.

  126. Gloster Gooner

    May 06, 2012, 10:40 #21935

    Wenger is a finished man and Arsenal are finished until he leaves. Observing Wenger's body language for several seasons has been painful, the man looks as depressed as his defensive coaching skills. The inability to close out a crucial home game from a winning position with 10 minutes left just about sums up his and his team's incredible lack of tactical nous. No change in formation for 5 years, a lack of quality recruitments for the same period and a blatant disregard for how the opposition sets up against us has lead us to this woeful situation. Wenger must go!

  127. Martyn

    May 06, 2012, 10:39 #21934

    Spot on. Two points from our last three home games is criminal at this stage of the season. I cannot wait for the season to end such is the stress endured by us gooners. I'm not at all convinced that we will finish fourth let alone third even if Man City and Villa win today. Picture the scenario next week, Spuds and Newcastle winning and West Brom beating us? I'm getting behind that sofa now!!

  128. Ando

    May 06, 2012, 10:29 #21933

    you are right the board have no bollocks and Wenger is just an illusionist and clever with his tricks to hide the truth.

  129. andy

    May 06, 2012, 10:27 #21932

    Like most fans, I can't RvP staying around to play Europa football next season. And lets face it, without him Arsenal would be a fairly average team. I honestly can't see this squad winning anything. They go through the motions, accept the plaudits, but they are not winners. The squad does need a good shake up...a wake up call. But I feel half the problem is also with the manager and manager. We tinker about with 'youth' players, the self sustaining model, and qualifying for the CL. Anything else is a bonus. Sadly, I've realized that even I've become accustomed to not winning anything and hope for a top 4 finish. My expectations have been severely eroded.

  130. Cloiseau the clueless

    May 06, 2012, 10:20 #21931

    its not just a lack of investment in the right players it is the mentality of the squad. its just not got enough bottle about it at the key crunch moments. Arsenal could simply never do what chelsea did against Barca away - we dont have the character make up from management down. too flamboyant, light, airy fairy and no real weight and proper appreciation of what it takes to win matches, no game intelligence. basis the season overall and the poor displays against lesser teams we do not deserve CL football anymore

  131. Gee

    May 06, 2012, 10:06 #21930

    Podolski has instructed lawyers to review the contract and find a loophole in attempt to get out of it

  132. Clive the Gooner

    May 06, 2012, 10:04 #21929

    Another shameful display to add this seasons long list. Goalkeeper, Defence and Midfield were awful. When Norwich attacked we were so wide open it was like watching a Sunday park team. The midfield were just ambling back instead of busting a gut to get there. Song is no DM his habit of tamely giving the ball away has cost us time and again. Wenger has not been able to motivate the players against lesser teams and it really is time for a change. Kronke should also go with him, let's have people running our club with real ambition. I'm sick of seeing us get into positions to win titles, cups, have 2nd or 3rd then mess it all up when the pressure is on what a bunch of bottlers.

  133. alisher knows

    May 06, 2012, 9:58 #21928

    who????? who on the 'board' is going to say anything? what board? do you mean the old duffers who have no shares? there are 2 shareholders, silent stan & usmanov NOBODY else has any say whatsoever, usmanov has no say at the moment as he does not own 51% as that is the only number that gives you any say at all if someone else does and yes someone does his name is stan, he is the owner of this club so its down to this one man, who does not go, who bought self sustainable from fizman and wants things just as they are, he wants to take profits too but knows its hard too, he was quoted in usa but it was not picked up here, so there you have it, arsene has total control and will not change, his boss wants things exactly like it is. oh and the other 29% shareholder, he only wants to pay off the stadium debt, give arsene money to invest in the team, wants to win trophies, wants another manager if he does not bring him trophies, and is the richest man in russia and the uk lets stick with stan eh?!?!?

  134. rudytel

    May 06, 2012, 9:57 #21927

    Agree with everything. Gutted..we're sure to be the laughing stock of London now. Channel 5 here we come. My 11 year olds team turn out better defensive performances than what we witnessed yesterday. Song and Ramsey getting raped all afternoon was the reason Norwich were so effective going forward. Chesney had a shocker, Bacary's in a bad way and so are we! How many more muted awkward laps of appreciation are we to endure?

  135. Bard

    May 06, 2012, 9:54 #21926

    Good post Kevin. The same old same old. They didnt look up for it in the first half ( the usual mental fragility and lack of bottle ) and the same defensive problems that have dogged us for the last 5 seasons at least were there for all to see. To be honest does it really matter whether we finish 3rd or 4th, the way we play at the moment we have no chance of winning anything. Radical changes are needed and as you point out they arent going to happen while Wenger remains in his current position. More depressing is the fact that these spineless performances will surely convince RVP that he needs to be somewhere else.

  136. JOEL

    May 06, 2012, 9:49 #21925

    NOT AS GOOD AS THEY THINK THAT THEY ARE!-Alex Song finds himself at the top of this list.A Few telling assists does not mean that he should shirk his other duties.How many times,yesterday, did he give the ball away and crucially prior to the Norwich equaliser.Any sighted Arsenal fan should be able to see that a proper defensive midfielder is absolutely necessary-to show him the way to play the game consistently without continuously and needlessly tripping over and passing to the opposition but running back to defend when required.I'm also fed up hearing that Gervinho has had a "promising" first Season.He is meant to be a proven international capable of providing assists and goals.He proved from his spat with Barton,his inability to find telling crosses,his desire to run into the opposition and his incapacity to shoot that he has no "footballing brain" whatsoever!Compare him to any of his predecessors and he comes up wanting.A panic buy without a doubt and someone who needs to be sold whilst he still has some worth.Unless the likes of Denilson.Bentner,Young,Chamakh,Diaby,Djourou,Fabianski,Arshavin are sold and free-up their ridiculous salary packages Arsenal won't be able to compete for Trophies and will continue to struggle to consistently beat the likes of Norwich,Wigan,Fulham,Swansea etc.This side has no "spine" and one needs to be developed or bought pdq!

  137. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    May 06, 2012, 9:46 #21924

    I've often regarded Kevin's match reports as being too negative this season, however he's got the pitch just right on this occasion. Personally, I was alarmed by the manner in which Holt and Morison dragged Tommy and Kos all over the place.

  138. Dan h

    May 06, 2012, 9:43 #21923

    Just like a lot of us have been saying for a long time now when the pressure is on we fold.AW said afterwards the team expected to win sorry football doesn't work like that.If the players baring a few can't get themselves motivated for games of this importance it tells you all you really need to know.I had a feeling the position we end up in may be more about how the other teams finish than what we did ourselves & sadly it's how it has turned out.The season can't end soon enough car crash viewing yesterday & totally self inflicted.

  139. Frank

    May 06, 2012, 9:42 #21922

    Kev you ask where has our Arsenal has gone.It left the day Dein was shunted out the door.Kroenke and Gazidis dont know how to run a football club just how to make profits.Those two clowns let Wenger run the club as he wants with no pressure on him to deliever success on the pitch.The club is in decay on the pitch.Too many average players on massive wages who cant be bothered.The i dont care attitude comes from the manager.Players who are not good enough rewarded with long term contracts ie Djourou Diaby Rosicky Denilson Bendtner.I said in 2009 we would never win another trophy while Wenger remains.Wenger aint going nowhere until Kroenke goes.So the mediocrity will remain summed up perfectly by Song and Ramsey who are shocking premiership players.And RVP will go this summer. Thursday Channel 5 here we come

  140. halfempty

    May 06, 2012, 9:28 #21921

    it was the usual fare. why should anyone be surprised? for me, the only real difference in Our Glorious Leader's woeful inability to refloat a sinking ship over the last few weeks is that he at least gave Ox half an hour instead of the paltry 5 minutes or so he usually gets. It all ultimately comes down to poor preparation and motivation. He relies on the 'professionalism' of the individuals to know what needs to be done, but clearly their is none. Out of possession, the buck is instantly passed from one to another. almost without exception yesterday, once the ball was lost, like playground schoolboys, they would give up and saunter back. The middle of the field became, time and again, a vast oasis for yellow shirts to pour through unhindered. It's not as if this was the first time either: wolves, qpr, wigan were all like this. only at stoke did they appear sufficiently fired up to compete. We do not have a motivator on or off the field, and in reality never have had since Viera. If we've blown it now, who is to blame? I think we all know.

  141. SilverGooner

    May 06, 2012, 9:25 #21920

    Spot on Kev. 47 goals conceeded beggars belief, but not as much as Wenger's refusal to address our blindingly-obvious defensive deficiencies. Let's be honest - Norwich could have been 4-1 up before RvP got on the scoresheet. A disgraceful defensive performance. If only we could defend like Norwich! Instead of spending much of the game berating the fourth official, why doesn't Wenger impart some tactical advice to his players? Oh yeah -that's because he doesn't do tactics! I for one am resigned to the fact that nothing is going to change under Wenger. And neither will we ever win another trophy while he is still in charge.

  142. JCL

    May 06, 2012, 9:19 #21919

    Kevin, if anything this editorial is too moderate and does not do justice to how badly we played yesterday, and how it repeated the pattern of so many games since 2006. Can we please please please please please change the manager.

  143. Hatfield Red

    May 06, 2012, 9:14 #21918

    Totally agree, next season i will be sharing my season ticket( if i can find others) as the cost does not represent value for money. A goal up with 10 minutes to go and we canot close a game - unprofessional in the extreme. Maybe finishing behind spurs will be a wake up call for the manager and the board. I have a horrible feeling that even if Chelsea dont win the champs league we will have another summer of inactivity in the transfer market.

  144. Fozzy's mate

    May 06, 2012, 9:10 #21917

    Oh kev - I shared your trepidation re both the last 2 games and I fully expect a draw or defeat at the Hawthorns next week. Yesterday was for the large part dire. I felt very sorry for RVP as he as he has done for much of the last season and a half (60 goals) dragged us towards achieving OGL's ambition of the third place trophy. But still his hapless colleagues could not do the rest. As an astute analyst I believe your match report missed an important point. This is the much lauded TV5's obsession with passing the ball into midfield before sprinting into the centre forward position leaving Koscielny on his own protesting. This led directly to the 2nd Norwich goal and to me is another indication of Wengers disregard for defence full stop. 6 points from the last 6 league games, how many more collapses before questions are finally asked of the manager from above? 47 goals conceded is more than for god knows how long and more than in previous seasons when even OGL conceded our defence was simply not good enough. And so we await our fate which is now largely in the hands of spurs and chelsea. But in all honesty. Does it really matter. Kroenke is a multi billionaire and the clubs accounts show a cash reserve of 130 million. Even if we do qualify under this regime it is on the start of groundhog day yet again. Part of me wants to read next week that RVP has gone as I can't stomach the whole will he won't he saga, for 3 months until the inevitable happens, in that he goes for 35 million and the club pocket the 25 million after spending 10 on Podolski and the whole merry go round starts again. When grilled about last summers huge transfer profit mr self sustainable said we were keeping our powder dry for future windows, well let's use that powder and quick. As for Banfield enough said. The heirachy at the club from Kroenke, to Gazidis to Wenger has no desire to change anything, as scraping into the champions league with the minimum investment is their utopia. The only ones who desire change is the fans.

  145. david boyle

    May 06, 2012, 9:09 #21915

    yesterdays performance was a disgrace. No passion, no desire and above all no quality. GERVINO has been a terrible buy, he has been absolutely hopeless!@! Why he is still ahead of aoc is beyond me. People keep saying how good Song is. He is one of the most overrated player Arsenal ever had, he is slow, gives the ball away too much and gives away stupid fouls.as for ramsey hes all of the above but worse .wenger has to take a good look a himself because we are becoming a laughing stock .we need to get usmanov onboard now and the ex barcelona manager (i cant spell his name) otherwise we are not going to win anything in my life time and im only 41

  146. Oxy-Moron

    May 06, 2012, 9:09 #21914

    A manager that can neither motivate or coach defensively. Name one other top flight club in Europe that would stand for this for so long? To be sitting here waiting on the results of S***s and Newcastle is a disgrace to this once great club. Enough is enough. AMG.

  147. Adious wenger I'll pay for your bus fare

    May 06, 2012, 9:07 #21913

    Same old sh1te from a team more bothered about going out on the piss than putting a shift in, should of been wenger's last game at home yesterday. Too many average players that no top flight team should be employing. Gervinho WTF and Ramsey !!! When these two start it's like playing with 9 men from the start. Poor old OX clearly isn't a wenger yes man otherwise he would start each match.

  148. jamie hunter

    May 06, 2012, 9:02 #21912

    Great article Kevin, right on the money. Of course it is far from the first time it has happened but how pathetic was our attempt to see out the gane? Having worked their backsides off to draw level and then take the lead, it just didn't seem to register how important it was to hold on to that lead. We must be the only team in history to be constantly getting caught on the break whilst LEADING a game in the closing stages. The players and manager blather on almost weekly about 'learning lessons' but as you say, the same old amateurish mistakes have been a constant in the past 5 years or so. Whether its winning a cup, holding onto a league position or just simply seeing out a win, this flaky bunch of individuals are incapable of seeing a job through.

  149. Clockender78

    May 06, 2012, 9:01 #21911

    Interesting article Kev. You say we should finish fourth, but have you forgotten about Newcastle? Not sure we will even beat west brom. Agree with you regarding song though, he just isn't convincing enough for me. And we have lost every game this season when Arteta hasn't played!! Couldn't make game yesterday, by all accounts we were awful first half, but recovered a bit second half. Three points from last four games is simply not good enough, again certain players probably thought all we had to do was turn up to win the game. See Wigan at home. Is this not down to the manager to ensure this doesn't happen??

  150. Treble Double

    May 06, 2012, 9:01 #21910

    We are certainly doing our best to f@&* it like only Arsenal can do. Yesterday's performance was a disgrace, especially in the first half. My biggest worry was if we didn't score early we may become a bit impatient. Well the opposite happened, we scored early and in typical Arsenal style thought job done. Defensively we are mid table at best and going forward we had enough chances to win 3 games but didn't take enough of them which ultimately cost us. Let's not forget that Norwich were the leagues whipping boys over the past 3 games. If we could have chosen a game to play yesterday, then Norwich would have been it. There were too many defensive f@&* ups to name them all and it gets a bit boring to keep having to talk about the same errors from the same players. There have been some posts recently that have stated should we finish 3rd it would be AW's greatest achievement!! If we finish 3rd it will feel like default and only because everyone else keeps blowing their opportunities, although I think the scum and the bar codes have a good chance to get 3 points today. That coud leave us with Thursday night football followed by Sunday league games. Oh what joy! This used to be our strongest point of the season, over the past 5 or 6 years we all know what we will get and the post summed it up nicely, we are all going on a summer holiday! Trouble is, if we finish outside CL it will be a summer holiday that RVP won't be coming back from.

  151. Aj

    May 06, 2012, 8:56 #21909

    When this team need to win a game they can't. That has been proved time and again over the last few years. Wenger can't motivate them and does not demand the necessary work ethic to win these games. Are there any fantasists left out there who think this man can win anything again? If the board has any balls they should get Guardiola signed up now for 12 months time, when he will have his hunger back They won't of course and the inevitable slide of our great club will continue. Neil Banfield, what an inspiration for the payers,what a joke.

  152. HowardL

    May 06, 2012, 8:55 #21908

    I think that yesterday must rank close to my worst ever day as an Arsenal supporter. As you say, Kev, there was insufficient commitment from Arsenal given the high stakes and Szcz had probably the worst performance of his life; yet, having remarkably turned things round to lead 3-2 the team still failed to get the win. You didn't mention the nailed on penalty when RVP was bundled over but he would probably have missed it. Now I'm off to learn the words to Deutschland Uber Alles, or whatever is the right song for Bayern Munich, though realistically, given Chelsea's current form, the Europa League beckons for us. I will always support Arsenal, so hope I'm wrong, but at the moment those thoughts fit my mood

  153. Fozzy

    May 06, 2012, 8:53 #21907

    Spot on with your analysis with "Pele" Song and Rambo, Kev. What on earth was (the bloke who thinks that he is) Pele doing when at 3-2 up he gifted the ball to the opposition with such a devastating result? I have always been one to defend Rambo in the past but I could not believe my eyes when, with the score at 1-1, and with Norwich breaking fast, we were caught with their three attackers with just two of our defenders back. It was obvious that support was required, but to see both Rambo and Pele just gently jogging back and not busting a gut was just sickening to watch. I really need to sit down and consider my thoughts about yesterday before I let rip with a proper 500 word Online Gooner rant.

  154. Reg

    May 06, 2012, 8:50 #21906

    It's all so predictable. First half was grim with Norwich bossing the midfield (without Arteta we were brainless). The worrying thing is when the team are struggling they get no advice from the bench. The stop in play for the head injury just before half time was classic Wenger! A few minutes to bark orders and organise the players. No, he'd rather moan and whinge at the ref from 60 yards away! What a leader!

  155. Danish Gooner.

    May 06, 2012, 8:45 #21905

    We will lose at WBA and then it will be up to Everton and very unlikely Fulham.

  156. Rippy

    May 05, 2012, 22:34 #21904

    All the wenger supporters. You still happy? Seriously your being mugged off . The manager is a loser. 7 years and counting loyalty being stretched to breaking point. Good luck

  157. Greg71

    May 05, 2012, 21:08 #21903

    Comfortable in 3rd or 2 cup finals ? time to call time on the latest referendum me thinks ! ? if you were rvp would you sign a new contract !

  158. fozzy's mate

    May 05, 2012, 19:55 #21902

    Todays debacle v Norwich showed everything wrong with this pathetic regime. Yet again we have crumbled at the end of a season, it doesn't matter whether we are chasing the title, the champions league or 3rd place. In my eyes the glory will never be 2nd to the grind of as wenger calls it tipping over the line to ECL qualification. It is obvious to those other than the most one eyed that the club use the champs league as a cash cow. The group stage is extremely boring and due to this regimes wicked lack of ambition as soon as we meet a half decent team in the knock out stages its game over. The same is true of the carling and fa cups purely because OGL let's the fans down by not playing strong enough sided. Football is about glory, winning trophies and finals, losing finals, drama and tragedy, not falling over the line to qualify for a competition you do not have the ambition to win. When Houlier said champs league qualification was of greater importance than winning any of the three cups they did in 2001, we all laughed. As fans do we really care whether the current 130 million cash reserve is increased when our 2 owners are multi billionaires. Where is the joy and the glory. Under this regime and Wenger we will never win another trophy. But to the board success is measured on how much can be pocketed by the denver dough trouserer and to wenger how much his ego can be fed by his insistence of a different measure of success to that of any other major club. To finish I thought yet again OGL was out done by a modern manager today.