This is Arsenal - they should want more

Will the club ‘keep their powder dry’ again this summer?



This is Arsenal - they should want more

Mr Self-Sustainable


In an article written in the early part of last season called The Multi Ownership/Dough-Trousering Model, I attempted to articulate my views on those at the very top of OUR club. As we reach the end of another season where we largely played the role of also-rans, I am compelled to write again.

Since the last piece, some of the "multi-owners" have now sold on at a king’s ransom and dear Danny Fiszman, a true Arsenal boardroom legend, has sadly passed away. Oh, and I won't give any credit to the Old Etonian/fart/fool, who, despite selling on, still sits as non-exec chairman, extolling his love for the manager and castigating the fans that have helped to fill his pockets with silver.

So now we are left with Silent Stan, aka the Denver Dough-Trouserer, owning roughly 70% and Alisher Usmanov roughly the other 30%. In recent years, emotions have run very high at AGMs and shareholders’ meetings, with the fans by and large angry with the arrogance and disdain displayed by PHW and OGL towards the shareholding fans, with their attitude of almost "what's it got to do with you lot" being the overriding feeling.

So, this season at the AGM, it became more of a rehearsed play with pre-submitted questions and prepared, scripted answers. I was interested to watch on Sky Sports as any number of fans leaving the meeting expressed anger at what they had seen - lifelong fans and football analysts alike, seething at the lack of ambition. One football analyst said "they haven't got a clue, all they talk about is wanting to finish fourth. This is Arsenal, they should want more."

For much of the last few seasons, the fans’ boiling frustrations have turned to the manager and, as we all know, he is far from blameless. But he is validated and fuelled by those above him. Before the old guard sold up, they had spun us the line of needing to move from Highbury to the bland and soulless bowl in order for us to compete with Europe’s elite. What we now know is that it was in large part to send the share price into orbit before they opted out. I hoped without expectation that Kroenke would demand more, but alas no. Both the old guard and the man from Denver have heartily bought into Wenger’s redefinition of success and the creation of the third/fourth place trophy with enthusiasm as it suited their financial goals.

The natives at the bowl are uneasy and restless, as it will now be at least eight years between (real) trophies. But many of us feared several years ago, and many more now concur, that this is because, for the boardroom, success is not measured by putting silver on the mantelpiece. In fact, many have gone further by stating on various fora that the owners do not deserve to be in the Champions League as qualification is used merely as a cash cow for those at the top of our club.

When Mr Self-Sustainable was questioned regarding the huge transfer-profit last summer, he said we were keeping our powder dry for the next window!

As I said, the man from Alsace is far from being without blame. If we had an ambitious forward-thinking board, I would be for a change of leadership on the bench. My favoured choice would be the serene Roberto Martinez, who very much reminds me of the Wenger of 15 years ago. But my fear is that, if OGL were gracefully or forcibly to move/be moved on, we would get a very different type of replacement. Witness the scenes at Villa and Blackburn, where two puppet managers reign, hand- picked by supine boards similar to ours, who want to take out without giving and sell their best players year on year. These managers are taken on as they are so grateful for the job that they will take all the brickbats and abuse and peddle the owners’ rubbish until civil war breaks out in the stands.

Several times we have been at the point of such unrest, notably at the end of last season, when Mr Self-Sustainable told us that the 6.5% increase was required to allow us to compete in the market! Up until this season, journalists have sometimes called us ungrateful for daring to criticise Arsène, but, after the Norwich groundhog day, even they sympathise with the relentless and repetitive pattern.

As we head into the summer with yet another period of anxiety ahead, and the loss of our best and only world-class player a very real possibility, that unrest is not far away. I am pleased we have signed Podolski but at the same time dread Gazidis arrogantly telling us we have signed a world-class replacement, quoting his international stats, and conveniently omitting the detail regarding the £25 million profit. I get depressed with all the age-old tales of needing more commercial revenue to compete at the top. If you have an unused cash reserve of circa £120 million and are 20 points from the top, does it matter if that reserve is £200, £300 or £400 million, when you don't use the resources you have?

So here we go - West Brom away and yet another chance for RVP to drag us to the third-place trophy, or another opportunity to choke for the fifth game in a row. But whatever happens on Sunday, we are the Arsenal and we should want more.


NEW! Subscribe to our weekly Gooner Fanzine newsletter for all the latest news, views, and videos from the intelligent voice of Arsenal supporters since 1987.

Please note that we will not share your email address with any 3rd parties.


Article Rating

Leave a comment

Sign-in with your Online Gooner forum login to add your comment. If you do not have a login register here.

60
comments

  1. Theo Jensen

    May 11, 2012, 22:43 #22237

    @ Joshua: Well we hadn't won a trophy for 7 years before Graham's era and with Wenger the team had won the European Cup Winners' Cup in 1994. And regarding Koscielny- I know wages must be factored in which is why in an earlier comment I said that Chamakh on a free, with a five year deal at 50k a week represented a £13 million commitment. But Bolton/Blackburn don't exactly dish out the cash for wages. Koscielny reportedly cost £10 million, and he is probably on our club's 'average' wage of 50k. It was a bid of supposedly £6 million with some add ons that Coyle described as 'derisory', but there were several clubs interested. Kos. is great with awesome potential but he cost us so many points last season and was to blame for the last minute Birmingham goal in the CC final. Samba was proven in the PL and apparently sold for £12.5 million to Anzhi with £100k wages (Koscielny and Squilacci therefore were more expensive purchases overall). I think however that we are fundamentally in agreement that Wenger has been dealt a poor hand of cards, is playing them well and that we are not far off the kind of success we desire so I'll make this my last comment, sorry therefore if I don't respond to a reply as I won't see it! But yeah, I comment fairly regularly on the site so I'm sure there's scope for more discussion.

  2. Joshua

    May 11, 2012, 19:07 #22231

    Theo… seriously the strength of what Wenger inherited is so overplayed that it’s ridiculous. What did he actually inherit? Remember Ian Wright and Bruce Rioch having public arguments? Remember the booze culture and Merse on coke and all sorts? Remember our players going to jail, thrashing cars and thrashing McDonalds restaurants? Wenger inherited a club in decline with one out and out gem in Bergkamp… and to top it all he was French and looked like a school teacher. …That’s before we factor in the crazy rumours in the Press that he had to deal with. George at least was a genuine Arsenal legend and had respect from the get go… Wenger had to earn every ounce of respect he got from our players… and he won a double in his first full season! By any rational standard if you consider ‘CONTEXT’ Wenger’s is the much greater achievement. And when you talk of what we paid for Koscielny it is worth bearing in mind that wages come into any transfer outlay… and no established premier league CB would cost 8m… Bolton got desperate in the end as Cahill’s contract was running out… didn’t they say that a 10m offer was an insult? No way would Cahill accept Kosceilny’s wages, whatever they are!

  3. Red Mist

    May 11, 2012, 17:22 #22227

    Joshua I'll say it again I don't expect us to win the league as I said before! Portsmouth and birmingham have won a trophy in the last seven years the stadium is not a very good excuse really is it. We came 10th and 12th under GG Man utd got relegated in the 70s did they not? don't see what your getting at there. We are a bigger club because of sky and the way the european cup has changed to let loser teams in it and the money that comes with it. What prem club has not got bigger around the world because of sky. If you really believe that seven years of coming top four but not winning anything is something that will be looked on in 20 years time as a great success and belittle trophies won in the past! That's more bizarre than the words Wenger spouts.

  4. Theo Jensen

    May 11, 2012, 15:33 #22222

    @ Joshua: really what I was saying with Cisse/VDV is that there are players out there who would be valuable additions to the squad for good prices. Wenger was quick enough to buy a League 2 French defender for the price of a proven premier league one. Like Gazidis said: 'our club is about making stars, not buying them' so to hope that we could sign world class players at all is really hopeless anyway. If we signed say Jaaskelainen, Vertonghen, Tiote and Dempsey then I see no reason not to challenge for the title if RVP stayed. And on George Graham- the fact is that the team he inherited was no where near as strong as the one Wenger inherited so statistics need to be looked at in context. Samba is an old school style centre back and Wenger far prefers finesse so that probably explains the difference. Wenger may well have had coaching successes a few years ago with defence but it's been the bane of Arsenal supporters' lives since- he had the team playing open and attacking football for the 8-2 mauling and really we should have just parked the bus. The Arsenal teams before the stadium move were never so open. I couldn't imagine the Invincibles letting Norwich snatch that last goal with one defender back (well, almost) in place.

  5. Joshua

    May 11, 2012, 15:02 #22219

    Red Mist… the reason for the barren seven years is fairly simple. We built a stadium which constrained what we could severely, more than severely. On its own that would have been sufficient reason… when you add in the appearance of Abrahmovic and the emergence of ManCity then what we have achieved in last seven years is actually pretty miraculous. And I can assure you that when the history of this period of Arsenal football club is written it will knock the two cups into a cocked hat. Here’s a question for you… why did we finish 10th and 12th under GG if we are such a big club? How many times in our history, since our rivalry began, have we finished above Spurs for 15 straight years? How many times did Spurs finish above GG in the league? When was the last time we had a top 4, or better, finish in the league for 15 years? What was the size of Arsenal football club 15 years ago and what is its size today and compare our growth with that of any of our rivals? I could go on… if you want to moan be my guest but I always find it interesting that there are no real facts behind all the moaning. Compare the wage bills and transfer spending of every single club that has finished above us for last 7 years to ours and give me one reason why you expect Arsenal to win the league give the disparity in resources. Just one well thought out reason will do for me.

  6. Joe S.

    May 11, 2012, 14:11 #22215

    Joshua et. al Sagna, Rosicky,Mertsacker, RVP, Arteta,Benayoun don't have much more to offer beyond a season or two. The others you mentioned with the exception of the Ox, Szceney and Wilshire are not kids but players reaching their mid 20's when they should be described as mature. In making my generalisation I was thinking of long term term building and thinking of the future contributions these pkayers can make regarding Arsenal winning a championship within the next three years. Also going head to head with Man. U and Chelsea meant not buying every available player but isolating and investing in one or two key players who would really help strenthen the squad instead of the flea market aquisitions we picked up in August.The main problem at Arsenal is that too much has been invested in the aptly described deadwood and too much of the manager's focus for recruiting players has been restricted to France so that he or his scouts have missed some of the other available talent playing in other leagues.Look at the Europa Cup and the talent on display in both Athletic teams. How many of these players wages even come close to Arsenal's?

  7. Red Mist

    May 11, 2012, 11:51 #22197

    Joshua so the reason for the baron seven years is because Wenger is only concentrating he's efforts in the league even though you say we have no chance of winning it, its all about the glory of 4th then? You mentioned the GG season we won double cups but ended 12th how is that looked on now do you think? I would suggest better than the last seven years will be in the future. As for playing weak teams in the lesser cups as you call them, Denilson, eboue, fabianski etc etc was Wenger giving it a go in the league then. I was around in the 70/80s didn't expect to win the league then still don't today, you used to get no trophy for 4th then and surprise you still don't.

  8. Mike

    May 11, 2012, 10:38 #22192

    @Joe s - your examples are exceptions - look at Man Utd signings last year -Young 4 goals altogether 2 against us and 2 against Spurs, Wellbeck - hasn't set the world alight, Jones? - go to the other big names and the list goes on forever - Carrol, Adams - Torres, Downing - the most astute signings have been made by Newcastle, (Ba, Cisse, Tiote) and they are typical Wenger type signings - they definately can't be seen as ambitious signings. When was the last time Man Utd actually had a Marquee signing like City?

  9. Joshua

    May 11, 2012, 9:59 #22191

    Joe S… We must be looking at different teams. You say we are no longer a young team but an old one saddled with players who will be knackered in 2 years? Let’s look at the first team alone.. how old are Szczeney, Gibbs, Vermaelen, Kosceilny, Song, Walcott and Wilshere? To expect us to go head to head with ManCity, Chelsea and ManU over players is quite unreasonable. With what money do you expect the club to do this head to head bidding? The issue surely is being smart with the money we have and getting the most value for money we can… what is the benefit in macho posturing in the transfer market when you know you can’t win? The point surely is that the so-called big clubs are eyeing up players that Wenger signed and polished. Barca wanted Cesc and got him, City wanted Nasri and got him but they paid us for them… everyone in the world would like Van Persie. It seems absurd to me that fans are complaining about who we haven’t signed whilst ignoring the quality of who we have signed! I am sorry but it is simply unrealistic to expect Arsenal to go into a bidding war with the likes of City, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real or even ManU…. It would have been unrealistic before we built the stadium, having built the stadium, such an approach would be not only delusional but suicidal, IMHO.

  10. Joshua

    May 11, 2012, 8:18 #22183

    Red Mist... I didn't say that the FA a Cup was ours if we just concentrated on it... no one can GUARANTEE a trophy, but it is surely commonsense to accept that if we played our best players in the lesser Cup competitions we would have a greater chance of winning them. If we had played Jay Emmanuel Thomas in the league instead of in the cup at Stoke what do you think would have likely happened? It's not rocket science. You must be the only person who thinks that finishing 12th and 4th are the same thing.... on that basis I would imagine that game up at West Brom is of no interest to you whatsoever... and since Chelsea and City are outspending us 20 to 1 in some instances how do you propose we win the league as a matter of course? Seriously is there anyone posting here who's boss gives 1/20th of the resources of his colleagues and then tells him to go out and outperform those same colleagues? If you are only interested in first place I take it that you were not supporting Arsenal through much of the 70s and 80 then? I am sorry but I don't see how wanting the win the FA Cup can be called ambitious in this day and age for a club that plays ECL year in and year out when teams like Wigan and Wolves play weakened sides in the same competitions; football has changed. But feel free to disagree.

  11. Joe S.

    May 11, 2012, 1:46 #22180

    Joshua, Where are the top players we have attracted over the past five seasons? Every buy we've made has come with a mark down price tag on them. The Ox excepted we have been looking at players who the seriously big clubs have not wanted to touch. When was the last time Arsenal competed head to head with Man. U or Chelsea for a player and come out on top? Then we had the disgusting events of last year's transfer window and came up with a bunch of rejects. As things stand we are no longer a young team but one saddled with aging players who I can't see giving us anything two tears down the line. We should have been able to pick up a Jones or a Matta just as we should have been looking at the likes of Falcao or a Diego who was unhappy at Juventus. Instead you know what we got and the main reasons being that Arsene Wegner was not focused on what he needed to do to strenghen his squad. Why should he have been His job was safe and it provides a nice little earner.

  12. Red Mist

    May 10, 2012, 23:04 #22177

    Joshua really! the FA cup was ours if we would only have concentrated on it? that's ok then we should just concentrate on the league that explains the 8-2, and Blackburn,Wigan,QPR, etc etc.....i would have taken the league cup all day last season instead of the euro loser league which again we excelled in this season as we always do. But it's only about the big trophies you say but we don't come close to winning those? 3rd or 4th is no better than 12th in that your a loser you don't win the league! FA cup and league cup together is still today far better than 4th in the league. You asked me to name a manager who could have done what Wengers done on the budget you say he has had these last seven years as regards Prem and Europe! but he has not won any of these but i could name plenty who would have added a bit of history for others to read about in future generations rather than an 8-2 defeat.

  13. Joshua

    May 10, 2012, 22:27 #22174

    Theo... How many people were calling for Papiss Cisse before he fetched up at Newcastle? Are you telling me that if we signed Papiss Cisse that our fans would have been cock-a-hoop? Look at how maligned Alex Song still is on some Arsenal fan sites?! I'm all for signing the likes of Papiss Cisse but you can't be calling for "ambition" and then use Cisse as an example because no manager in the English premier league has signed more "Papiss-like" players than Arsene Wenger... it is because Wenger signs players like Papiss that some say we are not ambitious. What fans want are established star names that can take the team to the next level and very, very few such players cost 15m in transfer fee. Van Der Vaart is a good player but do you really think that Van der Vaart is a better player than either Cesc or Nasri who we had last season? Is he better than a fit Wilshere? We can't sign everybody. The players have to be available at the right time.. why sign someone worse when you have better players? On GG I have to say that his defensive prowess is vastly overstated IMHO. GG's team in the 94/95 season conceded a total of 49 goals in the league... now it's not as if we were playing care free attacking football because we only managed to score 52... that is a whacking 3 more goals than we conceded. I like to look at facts. Do you know who has the best Arsenal defensive record of the premiership era... Arsene Wenger. The invincible defence conceded only 26 goals all season and that back 5 was Lehmann, Lauren, Kolo, Sol and Ash... all of them recruited, coached and managed by Wenger. Incidentally we also scored 73 goals that season. On our run to the ECL final how many goals did we concede? Wenger is not the defensive doofus that some claim and GG is not the king of Catenaccio either... GG organised his teams differently that much is true and he deserves respect but let's not go OTT. The truth about Bould, Adams, Winterburn and Dixon is that they deserve great credit for taking on board what Wenger had to say when he arrived and Wenger too deserves great credit for letting them prove themselves. As a fan at that time the talk was all about how we needed to replace the defence because of their age... no one remembers that now. The lads themselves say that Wenger's method's prolonged all their careers. So when folks go on about Wenger inheriting George's defence... it's not as if he offered them nothing. I repeat what I said earlier; I think that Samba is a very limited defender. Where I agree with you is that we are not far off being very competitive but I think that you underestimate the difficulty of building a squad. Kenny Dalgleish, who is no mug, has had a go at Liverpool and the result is there for all to see.

  14. Joshua

    May 10, 2012, 21:23 #22171

    Gare Kekeke: I don't understand your argument. You say that if our players were better coached and prepared we would have beaten City at the Eithad? Do you remember that we played City with no Full backs? We also had no Jack Wilshere in our side that day... And yet they were only able to beat us by the odd goal... so how badly prepared do you think were that day and how much better could we have done without any recognised full backs? And we may have beaten them by a single goal at the Grove but we had the majority of the clear chances in that match... How many saves did their goalkeeper have to make? The funny thing here is that there's no other team who have spent what we have that are even able to live with City in the Premier league but our team is supposed to be badly coached and ill motivated? I honestly don't understand this kind of thinking. IMHO the issue with our team isn't whether we can match any team in the world on our day... everyone knows that we can, we've beaten Barcelona at their very best... the problem is what happens when we have injuries and key players are missing... and that is down to money both in the sense of not being able to keep our best players when they mature and are offered a king's ransom and also just in terms of getting top quality mature players into the side. Motivation, character, tactics and technique are not the problem.

  15. Gare Kekeke

    May 10, 2012, 21:14 #22170

    Oops, a correction on my last posting people. When I commented “Yes, things have gone against Ferguson this year, but for Man Utd these days it’s a rarity not the exception”, I was meant to say “it’s a rarity not the norm”. Apologies all. Up The Arsenal!

  16. Gare Kekeke

    May 10, 2012, 20:43 #22168

    @ Mike - can we compete with City? Financially, no but if our players were coached and mentally prepared better for games, the yes. Our recent (and narrow but impressive) win against them coupled with our non-disgraceful performance at the Etihad in the last couple of seasons would suggest it is possible. Man City’s defending as a team as well as their backline is better than ours because of Mancini. Hopefully the promotion of Bould at The Arsenal would see us become defensively much more solid because you cannot deny that in recent years; at times it has been a joke. This season City can point to wins at the Premier League’s bottom seven, even if some of them were narrow such as QPR. The same thing cannot be said about us. At Loftus Road, QPR gave City a fright, but City dug deep for the win thanks to the winning mentality instilled in them from their FA Cup triumph last season. When we went to Loftus Road, our attitude was wrong, which was pointed out by fans on the online editorial a day later. Perhaps our players went into the game a little bit complacent from winning the previous seven. This boils down to mentality. Yes, we should go into a game like that with a belief that we can win but treat our opponents with the utmost respect also. I will however take into account the different managerial regimes and the turnover of players with regards to our visits to W12 this season. At Blackburn, we contrived to throw-away two leads and eventually lost. When City went to Ewood Park two weeks later, just days after the Tevez nonsense, they won there with ease. And there is a rivalry between Blackburn & City adding extra spice to that fixture. Man City will win the title because of the money spent as we both agree on but not at a canter a la Mourinho’s Chelsea because of Ferguson’s driven desire to be the best and the high standards he sets himself and for his players. And Ferguson himself had learnt lessons from Man Utd being 2nd best to Mourinho’s Chelsea for two years. Yes, things have gone against Ferguson this year, but for Man Utd these days it’s a rarity not the exception. But we shall see what happens next season. And as general football fan, I would back Man Utd to be City’s strongest challengers next season because of Ferguson. For all of the money City has spent, at best they will win the title by three points or at worst goal difference. If we are going by money spent, possibly combined with excellent coaching too, then they should have wrapped up the title by the end of February, just like Mourinho’s Chelsea. And as a manager, Mancini’s average European record leaves a lot to be desired too, unless he improves on that front. It’s up to Wenger to look at ways he can compete with City as it can be done. Up The Arsenal!

  17. Joshua

    May 10, 2012, 20:34 #22167

    Red mist... what trophy though? GG won the FA Cup and Carling Cup and finished 12th in the league behind Wimbledon, remember them, the "Crazy Gang" they were called... Today that would be like finishing behind Stoke in the league! If Wenger concentrated on winning the FA Cup and Carling Cup and more or less ignored the league we'd have won those Cups because we have the quality to win them but that's not what he's done and he is right. Football has changed and changed utterly. If you want any old trophy, well that's your choice, but if you want to win the ones that matter, namely the ECL and the the premiership then you cannot name a single manager in the world that would have done better than Wenger on our budget. If you disagree name the manager. What I find funny is that some fans will go on and on about ambition but the say we haven't won any trophies as if the Carling Cup and the FA cup are signs of ambition in this day and age. Don't get me wrong... I'd be very happy to win the Carling or FA cup but I won't sacrifice a single season of Champions' league football for any of those trophies in this day and age. If we win them fine, but we should not base our season on winning the FA cup or Carling Cup. Not if we want call ourselves ambitious.

  18. Theo Jensen

    May 10, 2012, 20:14 #22166

    @ Joshua: Firstly, we are not AlWAYS in competition for certain players with City, United, Chelsea etc. for certain players that has been true a la Mata, but like I said it is not binding outright. Now you suggest by 'TOP' quality we need to spend more than £15 million? How much did Papisse Cisse cost? or Rafael Van Der Vaart? They are instrumental in their teams- it's not looking for world class players. And on Samba- you should make a list of Arsenal legends produced by GG and compare that to Wenger, and see who is more admired for their understanding of defence by the experts. I actually never dismissed the strategy Wenger has followed- it's perfectly reasonable to promote, or buy young players. But, for eg, what do we do with the left back position? Gibbs is injury prone and still learning the game while Santos lacks defensive skills. I'd say buy Vertonghen who can also play as a centre half, £10-15 million. In fact, that was my original point: within the constraints of a self-sustaining model which I have acknowledged permanently throughout my posts, we are not far off being complete as a squad if we make one or two more signings within our preferred price bracket. I never said Wenger should leave, just that he should expand on the policy he has ALREADY adopted since last summer. And re: Usmanov, I really wouldn't like to see us as a sugar daddy club my point was that he could work with us rather than just leaving things disinterestedly like Silent Stan.

  19. Mike

    May 10, 2012, 17:12 #22157

    @ Gare Kekeke -City are rumoured to be willing to pay RVP K250 000/week or K12 Million a year - 10% of our total wage bill on one man that is injury prone - don't tell me we can compete with that -football is now a business and should be run as on- self sustaining means you are there for the long run - Blackburn, one of only four clubs to have won the EPL was relagated last week. (They were the first club to buy the League Title). It may be a little while yet but Chelsea will also start falling away -personally think that the big spending there will be stopping soon - you cut your cloth to fit. Gor all its competing Man Utd will end up with nothing this year -SAF had to rely on his old school to pull him through this year -his brilliant signings didn't work out and the injury to Vidic was probably his biggest loss - they had one hand on the title and choked losing to Wigan and surrendering a two goal lead to Everton twice- much like us in previous years - Man City had the squad backed by oil dollars and it has shown when it counted

  20. Red Mist

    May 10, 2012, 15:54 #22153

    Joshua to actually beileve that there is not a manager in the world who would not have won a trophy these last seven years our avoided an 8-2 defeat even on Wengers so so poor budget is fantasy land. By the way GG only really had the Uk to search for talent as was the way at the time and how many of our greatest players off all time did he find?

  21. Ronster

    May 10, 2012, 14:35 #22145

    The main players behind the stadium move,Keith Edelman and Danny Fiszman(RIP) are no longer at the club.Kroenke?..Gazidis?..Hill-Wood?..able to inspire The Gooner nation with promises of a bright future?....don't make me f***ing laugh!

  22. AugustusCaesar

    May 10, 2012, 14:30 #22143

    I've said it once and I'll ay it again; the line that the club has become content with a top 4 place and is not interested in winning trophies is overstated, a myth. Apart from this season each of the seven trophyless found us challenging on one front or another. On numerous occasions the league championship itself. Just because the club failed to get over the line does not mean the club set out to finish 3rd or 4th and didn't even attempt to win a cup. We've reached three finals since 2005 and at least three or four semi finals haven't we? And remember the Eduardo season? I keep hearing this 'We will never win a trophy under Wenger again' as if he's never been anywhere close to winning anything in recent seasons. It's just nonsense.

  23. Tony Evans

    May 10, 2012, 14:18 #22142

    Joshua - When you say 'how many top players would we attract if we did not qualify for the CL' I would agree with you if we actually signed any top players! Apart from the extra revenue (which if not used for quality signings is meaningless to supporters) what are we actually getting from CL qualification. There is no sense of achievement or excitement with a 3rd or 4th place finish for us fans and I would personally much prefer a domestic cup final win even if it was against Birmingham or Cardiff.

  24. Joshua

    May 10, 2012, 14:11 #22141

    Re Chelsea and ambition - they are in the champions league final that we have reached once in our history. They are FA cup winners, which is more trophies than we have won since 2005. They have won the league 3 times and many other trophies since 2005. I think they have been slightly more ambitious than us? The arguments can go back further to the lack of ambition shown over the last 40 yrs by Hill Wood led boards, with the collapse of the original double winners, the sale of Brady and Stapleton and failing to capitalise on Grahams squad 0f 89-91. Every time we have reached the top of the mountain we have rested on our laurels and fallen back down. In my opinion we dont have the desire to reach the sumit again. But that is my opinion and yours is equally valid, so lets keep up the banter!

  25. Stevesam

    May 10, 2012, 13:58 #22140

    Joshua - No defence of the investment in the team by PHW or the Bracewells ? Perhaps you can compare their ambition with that of numerous other investors at other clubs ( e.g. Majeski ) The only interest of the Board members is their free seats in the Directors box, free reserved parking, free lunches and drink before and after games, free travel and hotels for away trips and other perks with expenses. Unlike the big majority of supporters they pay for nothing and never have done, they wish to protect this position. Do you think after 44 years Pat Rice shall get a statue or a Honorary Life President role ?

  26. johnnyhahleylovinggooner

    May 10, 2012, 13:42 #22138

    i had hoped that the manager could see us over the line as opposed to AW hopeing RVP would! is it not his job to ready the team? is he playing on the playstation or something? i do not want to end up like liverpool or rangers,yet surely we can manage the transfer market better,eg buy then sell early other than viceversa. PW i read somewhere today has said RVP will stay and he knows cause AW told him so,really? is this the same AW who thought cesc and nasi would stay last year, when we knew they would go 12 and 6 mts before hand they would go? they needed bother talking anymore tosh like last year, go out and buy and sell as needed.Big Bouldy has got his promotion i see today. well he did not want it last year so what has happened? has he had assurances about being allowed to work and implement his ideas or is he going to be a coneman. i expect Arsenal FC to be locked and loaded and ready to go on Sunday no excuses. FORWARD ARSENAL

  27. Joshua

    May 10, 2012, 13:41 #22137

    Theo… I think that when you say that there are multiple players in other leagues who are good enough for Arsenal; you betray the basic misunderstanding that underpins a lot of the comments that blame Wenger and want someone else in as soon as possible. The fact is that what we need as a club are TOP quality players and TOP quality players are by their very definition rare. TOP quality players for 15m quid are rarer still… TOP quality players that are available at 15m who we can convince to play for us at a lower wage than City, Chelsea or ManU can offer are probably close to non-existent, Podolski and Arshavin notwithstanding. Samba isn’t a top quality player if he was he’d be a top club no matter what GG may have said about him… and as an assessor of talent GG is not in Wenger’s class. What we rely on at Arsenal is Wenger taking a risk with talent he believes can be polished or hunting out a bargain and that, to be frank, is mostly what has kept us competitive. No one in world football would be able to build up a side of our quality, within the English league, on our budget save for our manager… if you dispute this tell me who can do it. We shouldn’t let our frustrations with near misses and collapses obscure how fortunate we are to be competing at all David Dein was against building the stadium because he saw the projections and thought we couldn’t compete… I know that some want Usmanov, all I will say is be careful what you wish for. I want Arsenal to win and win big but I am also realistic about both the opposition’s resources and our own. Realism isn’t the same as a lack of ambition. O’Leary and Risdale proclaimed Leeds ambitions from the roof tops less than a decade ago… where are they now?

  28. Joshua

    May 10, 2012, 13:21 #22134

    Mark... why is Arsene,s comment so controversial? Would rather play Cardiff or Birmingham in the Carling cup and win and forsake the chance to play Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich or whoever? Would you rather win the FA cup than play in the ECL? How many top players do you think we would attract as a club if we were not in ECL? I don't get why people get all angry when they are told the truth. If Wenger had said that he didn't want to win a trophy ever again I'd understand. If he'd said that Arsenal's sole ambition is to finish in the top three or four I'd understand> But he didn't say that did he? He was justifying a remarkable achievement that has been accomplished in the face of quite incredible odds! Even Chelsea who spent 70 odd million on 2 players alone last season (plus God knows how much on a hotshot young manager) are unlikely to finish 4th this season... if they don't win against Bayern they'd be in the Europa Cup next year in spite of all their spending! They spent more on 2 players than Wenger has spent in a decade... Are they not ambitious?

  29. Nick

    May 10, 2012, 13:00 #22131

    Ill tell you what the ambition should "SOUND" like Joshua, it should sound like saying 3rd or 4th is as good as a trophy, is self defeating BOLLOCKS mate thats what, if a general sent troops into battle saying "look lads their much better equipped than us so dont worry about beating them a strategic withdrawal will be like a victory" those troops wouldnt be in the right mind set or have the confidence to do anything other than get beat, ambition doesnt look like anything its a sound coming from those in charge , it only looks like something when youve got something to show for it.

  30. Joshua

    May 10, 2012, 12:59 #22130

    Stevesam… your post is rather typical of what one reads on most Arsenal blogs nowadays. The basic premise of these types of post is that everyone else is unambitious, venal and out for what they can get for themselves except me the blogger or commenter… It makes me laugh. If we look at facts surrounding the decision to build the stadium what we find flies in the face of the myths that now pervade the internet that it was a doddle to build. Contrary to what some are saying now the decision to build the stadium was very brave and very, very ambitious. First of all the bankers were not keen to lend the club the money because they didn’t believe that football run as a business ever made any money and definitely not enough money to warrant a £400m risk! Who remembers that now? Secondly the board were under absolutely no obligation to find another site in Islington, never mind one so close to Highbury, yet that is what our board did! Who remembers now that the Lough Road incinerator cost us millions to relocate? If the board had wanted to build a stadium and cash in wouldn’t it have made more sense to build the stadium out on the M25 somewhere and avoid all the hassle with planning and CABE and incinerators and remediation works and decontamination? They‘d have gotten a bigger capacity stadium for a lower financial outlay and most of us wouldn’t have complained at all. Look at Spurs willing to move to Stratford to save money! The self-sustaining model means simply that the club’s success is not reliant on any one individual and that has to be a good thing. Some folks seem to think that 4th is the worst thing that can happen to a club ours… Leeds happened to be a big club once, Villa have 2 European cups to our none and Liverpool were the Manchester United of the 70s and 80s. And none of those clubs has built a modern stadium in the heart of |London whilst managing to qualify consistently for the premier club competition on earth. If have a rubbish board and unambition manager which clubs have ambitious boards? Who are they? Again, no one should be immune from criticism but the criticism should be fair and balanced.

  31. Mike

    May 10, 2012, 9:24 #22113

    Strange how most people on this site dismiss the fact that ending in the top four deserves mention as an achievement. Therefore, this weekends game should be a dead rubber to them...meaningless...we haven't won the EPL so what does it matter is what you would expect......... The impression I have got from reading the postings is that this game is bigger than any other we have played this season and is a must win.....Finishing in the top 4 meaningless....don't kid yourselves

  32. Tony Evans

    May 10, 2012, 8:29 #22110

    Good comments from Gare and Ron, both of which I very much agree with. My last game as a season ticket holder v Norwich was one to forget, but I will still be daft enough to go to a few games next season because Arsenal are in my blood - if that wasn't the case I would gladly walk away from the current regime now. Players, management and board are all equally culpable for the dreadful complacency that has grown like a cancer at our club and I am sick of it.

  33. mark from aylesbury

    May 10, 2012, 8:21 #22109

    Joshua, It was Arsene who said top 4 is better than winning a trophy. That explains the model, financial efficiency above glory. The trouble is a fair percentage of us dont buy into it. Nor did Wenger suggest any of that in his first 5 years. We are ultra conservative in our risk and I would suggest unable to deal with star players within our present set-up. Add to that a stagnating manager and we have a mess. It has to be resolved.

  34. fozzy's mate

    May 10, 2012, 7:28 #22108

    All - thanks for the comment and debate as it was intended to stimulate such back and forth. To clarify a few points that seem to have been ambiguous. Firstly the figures I quote of 120 million cash reserve are from the recently published half year accounts, which show that figure, with 41 million profit on player trading. Some of the outgoings are unexplained so we don't know what if any is taken out by Kroneke and co. Secondly I don't want Wenger out as I said, under this board and the climate they sent I feel things may even get worse. Finally what is an AAA moron?

  35. Theo Jensen

    May 09, 2012, 23:30 #22107

    Couple of people asserting that mine and others' understanding is flawed so in regard to Joshua's comments: Firstly, the argument goes that the obvious and gross deficiencies in the team are correctable if new signings are made. A poster last year included several quotes from the chairman, Gazidis etc. stating that all money made on transfers (and more) is available for Wenger to spend on the purchasing of new players. People want him to buy players that would fill the weak holes in the team with proven quality. Where I split with others of this view is that I do recognise that Wenger's situation is much like Neville Chamberlain's- he's been dealt a very poor hand of cards. So we don't need to get Gotze, Hazard etc. when we can buy players like Podolski, Vertonghen and (too late now) Samba (he was good enough for George Graham) for somewhere between £10-15 million. There are numerous players available in multiple leagues for all positions so the variables of negotiation that you cite are not that binding outright. The players can flop but this isn't new- Chamakh on a five years deal at £50,000k a week is a £13 million commitment! I understand we are restricted with the model we have but you have to think long term with these things- if say we buy Vertonghen and scrape into 4th next year isn't that better for the long term financial standing of the club?

  36. LJB

    May 09, 2012, 23:28 #22106

    Once the move to the Emirates was completed and the value of the club increased,the major shareholders "the custodians of this clubs future",could not sell their shares fast enough to the first passing billionaire.It really doesn't require one to be a cynic to conclude the motivation for the move was to make a few people very rich indeed.We now have a major shareholder who has attended 2 matches since 2007,who had to borrow the money from a bank to pay for Fizsman and Bracewell Smiths shares, thinks the Glazers are doing a swell job,and who has said there is nothing wrong with owners taking money out of a club.Yet somehow the AKB's choose to ignore this and portray him as "good" to Usmanovs "bad" purely because he supports their beloved Wenger.Well,this club is more important than Arsene bloody Wenger,and one day in the near future when Stan is left to run the club,people will see that selling out to this man was the biggest mistake in this clubs history.The 860 original shareholders,mostly manual workers from the Arsenal,must be turning in their graves.

  37. Stevesam

    May 09, 2012, 23:07 #22105

    The self sustaining business model is not new to The Arsenal, the Bracewell Smiths and the Hill Woods have been profiting from it since they obtained their shares. The philosophy is quite simple, you put no money in but take out as much as possible. Recently that great servant of the Club - Lady Nina Bracewell Smith was installed as a Honorary Vice President. Other than inheriting her husbands shares and selling them to Silent Stan, I cannot think of anything she has contributed to the history of the Club. This appointment I think sums up the ambition of the Board.

  38. tpm

    May 09, 2012, 22:00 #22104

    joshua, explain the inabilty to organise a defence, the signings of flappy, denilson, squill, gerv etc, the new contracts for JD, the continued selectio for years of almunia,etc etc. whose to blame for them?

  39. Unbeaten 03/04

    May 09, 2012, 21:07 #22102

    I got the author's article clearly but those whose against seemed not to clearly explain themselves very well or to the least are talking rubbish especially a certain 'OMG...' Basically what I can make out of all this is that we should love The Arsenal but don't support the club including the team!!! Please explain what we should do as so far pretty everyone has said what is right or wrong but where do we as fans stand from all this....or rather where should we stand?!!!

  40. Jules, NZ

    May 09, 2012, 19:52 #22100

    So sack Wenger and replace him with someone who has avoided relagation for a few seasons. Now explain how that means the board will release more money ? Do you honestly believe Wenger doesn't want to win championships anymore ? I bet you must but a real bundle of laughs to sit next to at Arsenal

  41. Ron

    May 09, 2012, 17:26 #22097

    Its always difficult to comment on these type of matters that youve raised as the truth is that we know nothing about Arsenal's finances. What's often a given though is that any Club who shifts stadium often faces many trophyless years bar the odd exception. Having said this, my own personal feeling is that Arsenals existence is now a drab and mundane one and i think many (certainly the older fans) feel the same. Striving for 'top 4' so to go into a tournament that in the modern game is virtually impossible for the Club to win, ususlly involves a drubbing by the first decent team thay meet after usually limping through the tiresome and dreary group games, no longer cuts it for me. Add to this the fact the Arsenal often squander home points or drift lethargically through any Cup game immediately prior to a home or away CL game and also usually lose games away or exit Cups immediately after the said away CL games and the overall concoction is a self defeating one and all for what? Not very much i reckon, apart from the CL cash of course and Wengers vanity being massaged. The Club hardly refreshes its long since become stale squad and any football Club needs to aquire new players from time to time once its existing ones have shown themselves to be inadequate or worse still, utterly hopeless of which we have a great mix of both. The fans want the exitement of such renewal. All in all, falling out of the holy grail top 4 from a fans perspective, but challenging properly (instead of hopefully, lethergically and idly) for Europa Cup and domestic Cup glory as quite a few Clubs do, is (for me) a better existence and reflects the spirit of sport and aims for 'achievement' in the true sense of the word.Arsenal on the other hand just exist for the sake of existing and now do so in a boring, unremarkable and totally unexiting way. Yes, i know the arguments about the CL cash flow etc etc, but lets face it, Arsenal dont need CL qualification to attract so called top quality Euro or even the odd quality British player. The fact is they dont look for such players, always buying on the cheap with an eye on the future cash in value. Many will say im wrong but i find the football played and the Club tedious now and hence ive jumped ship from retaining a season ticket. I can find a boring pastime far cheaper than the one Arsenal offer if i want it! Its Arsenal forever for me, but from a distance now im glad to say.

  42. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 09, 2012, 16:53 #22096

    well said we certainly want/deserve more than we're getting now and have been getting for the last seven or eight years but like you say the owner/board don't see it that way how many times have we been just two or three players short and i mean top players not rubbish but no we stuck it out and were happy with cl qualification i was one of the fans that said on here that the hierarchy didn't deserve cl football (after the norwich game ) that a spell in the el might wake them up when they lose millions in cl money i also said the fans do they deserve to see the best at the emirates for their hard earned ( and thats not guaranteed yet. ) Your right about the natives fozzys mate they are very restless and if this team don't help RVP to drag us over the line on sunday we could very well end up watching teams from the a**e hole of nowhere at the emirates next season and then maybe the natives would really show just how restless they are.

  43. Judge Fred

    May 09, 2012, 16:51 #22095

    Yet again we have some Wenger apologists spouting their defensive crap - I only wish the Arsenal first team could defend half as well as you guys. There is a disease at the club that has filtered from the boardroom, to the manager, through to the players. Its called complancency. Everyone is in their comfort zone of the top 4 and they are all happy with that. This disease has spread to some of the fans who also believe that top 4 is a fantastic achievement for Arsene PLC. They hang on every word Wenger says, read the AFC website for balanced opinions and love tappy football with no end product. Basically, these "fans" are similar to Sp*rs fans from the 80's and 90's: they support a team that plays pretty football but at the end of the day they won fcuk all. I make no apologies for wanting Arsenal to spend big money and to challenge for trophies - with or without Wenger. Either suits me.

  44. Joshua

    May 09, 2012, 15:21 #22092

    Norfolk gooner... Arsene did not SPURN the chance of signing Yaya Toure or Cristiano Ronaldo. Yaya Toure came to us and we were prepared to sign him but we couldn't get a work permit for him as he wasn't an international at the time. Cristiano Ronaldo came to us, trained with us and we offered 4m pounds for him and Sporting were considering the offer when United played Sporting in a friendly and afterwards paid 12m! The funny thing here is that you appear willing to use Wenger's astuteness against him. Wenger doesn't set the immigration rules in the GB and it is not Wenger's fault that Fergie's has always had at least 3 times his budget. I'm all for criticism of people who deserve it... but can we, at least, keep it fair and reasonable?

  45. Jack the gooner

    May 09, 2012, 15:18 #22091

    Well said joshua! Glad that some comments on this baord come from someone with an understanding of mordern day football.All of the oaf fans on here talkinf about the 1930's and 70's, it was a completely different era of football. If you want to bash the club then at least present the facts in context which it seems no contributor on this "fan" site can seem to do. No, im not an AKB because an fool who insists on drawing lines in the sand amongst supporters is a fool, and sadly I think alot of the well adjusted and prgamatic fans have realised recently that many of our fans are ignorant, tabloid reading idiots. Im not happy with 7 trophyless seasons but I understand the context and how much football has changed.

  46. habubakar adamu

    May 09, 2012, 15:14 #22090

    mr wenger buy us players like m.vilabelhander & oliver& ajax captain & yanga mbiwa

  47. Gare Kekeke

    May 09, 2012, 15:09 #22089

    I’ve got no issues with the self-sustainable model as Man Utd proved pre-Glazer takeover. And it is the way forward for football. But you do wonder at times have we gone too far with it? I’m no fan of Kronke or his mates on the board but I’m no Usmanov lover either. I have never been in favour of one individual owning our club a la Abramovic. However I do think it’s wrong that one of world’s richest men in Usmanov holds almost a 30% shareholding of our club and yet has no say in the running of it. Let’s hear him out. He can’t be any worse than the current lot running our club. Personally, I don’t think the money generated by the club to an extent has been efficiently spent. According to the AST we have a wage bill close to £140m. Yes it does take into account all staff members rather than just the players but I still find that figure staggering considering we have at best ONE world-class player, whose own future is still uncertain (sign the damn contract!). Do you think the programme sellers are on £30k pa? Nah, thought not. Gazidis said last year that Wenger can’t be taken away from transfer or contract negotiations so you can’t blame Chelsea or Man City for the club sanctioning the ridiculous wages given to the likes of Diaby, Denilson & Bendtner when they weren’t desired by the big names of European football and when they still had to prove that they could perform consistently at the highest level. Still waiting. The Arsenal is to date, the third biggest and most decorated in England and the biggest in London on both counts. It’s time we started acting like it and not limiting our ambitions because of some of our rivals. Stand up to them. Compete with them sensibly. The weakest Man Utd team in two decades will lose their title at worst on goal difference. At one stage they were on course to win it with six games remaining. Man City’s billions courtesy of their owners should have enabled a title win at a canter. It didn’t because Sir Alex Ferguson had looked at other ways to beat them. Add to the fact he’s one of THE greatest managers of all-time. It hasn’t worked for him this season at least because Man Utd didn’t beat them even once during their head-to-head league games. This is something the board and Wenger have to learn from as well as our own errors. Up The Arsenal!

  48. MoFire

    May 09, 2012, 15:06 #22088

    Sad but true what Patrice Evra said about Arsenal being a development school. As soon as a player is world class they are sold for a profit that sustains the share price. There is no replacement purchased as there is conveyor belt of 'potential world class players'. The net effect is a club that systematically loses its best players ever year. That is not sustainable and so is the share price, fortunately. It wreaks havoc on the poor fans' hearts however and that is BRUTALITY!!!!!! .

  49. Peter Wain

    May 09, 2012, 14:40 #22087

    Under current management we have not won anything for seven years. During that time with a bit more investment we could have won three premierships. This financial model is stupid outdated and restricts the clubs ability to progress. We should invoit Usmanov onto the board and use his financial clout to ensure the quality of our transfers are improved. No more last minute transfers cheap options loans or youngkids but proven qality and let us win the league. Yanksout russians in I say

  50. Phil G

    May 09, 2012, 14:34 #22084

    Great post...You share my sentiments and concerns. Most of us frustrated fans are not saying that we should win everything, however, we are Arsenal, with 13 League Titles, 11 FA cup wins and an unbeaten season (within the last decade)...all of which donates to the fact that we should be winning "something" on a regular basis. Yes, AW has been the greatest to date, but his hands clearly seem to be tied and it's preventing him from achieving anything more than the (we should be grateful for a top four spot) mediocre mind-set. It's time for a change...However, the only way the situation is really going to change is by united 'supporter power'. We know how that usually goes, for everyone one of us who refuse to buy the merchandise or renew our tickets/membership (until we see the money being spent with experience added to the squad)...There will always be those who are quite happy with mediocrity and happy to spend and go along 'like lemmings' with everything the Board/Management dishes out. And at the end of the day, the senior share holders and board members grow richer, the media continue their vendetta of ridicule, while us regular fans are stuck between a rock and a hard place, wanting to support our team and wanting them to win things but not wanting to be made a foll of by the owners. United supporter action is the only way things will change.

  51. fozzy's mate

    May 09, 2012, 14:27 #22083

    OMG - don't know what an AAA is mate. I get it you don't agree with me fair enough, I don't agree with you. But funnily enough sites like this and Le Grove are for fan opinion and debate. If all I wanted to do was swallow the pumped out club propaganda I would stick to the official site, aka pravda.

  52. Tom

    May 09, 2012, 14:12 #22080

    Everyone should read Joshua's comments. Now there is a lad with some brains and ability to analyse a situation. Context people, context. It is what most of you appear to be missing.

  53. Norfolk Gooner

    May 09, 2012, 14:07 #22079

    I think it would be a sad end to ever see Wenger forced out after two doubles and the invincible season but to be honest we are stagnating. Man U and Man City will always end up in the top 4 because they aim to finish top - while we continue to just aim for top 4 our place will be in jeopardy. I expect Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle, Liverpool and Everton to all improve next season - I'm less confident we will. Wenger seems too arrogant or incapable of sorting out a defensive unit which really should be within the capabalities of anyone with a coaching badge. Also, if we are judging Wenger on the clubs finances and not trophies then we have to take into account the fact he spurned signing both Cristiano Ronaldo and Ya Ya Toure but happilly squandered money on Fabianski, Squillaci, Denilson, Diaby, Arshavin, Gervinho, Park etc.

  54. Joshua

    May 09, 2012, 13:45 #22077

    Can I ask what this lack of ambition actually entails? Not spending "biggish" sums on players? Or are we talking about the failed attempt to hold on to Nasri and Cesc? If it's the first, are you saying that Arsenal have a whole load of cash that they are simply refusing to spend? What evidence is there that Arsenal have all this money knocking about, that is available to spend, and having found a target refused to spend it? If it's the second... I for one don't think that it was lack of ambition on our part that made Cesc leave for his home town club when they were doing unbelievable things... nor Nasri leave for a club willing to chuck unprecedented wealth at him. There's an assumption here that buying players is like buying a car or even a loaf of bread... it simply isn't the case. The right player has to be available and when he is available he has to be willing to come to our club. And when he is willing to come to our club his club have to willing to sell him to us at a price we can afford. Finally we have to agree to his wages. That is IF THE PLAYER IS AVAILABLE. And after all that the p[layer can still FLOP. In a world where we are no longer competing with just ManU and Liverpool for players but also Chelsea, Man City too and where at least two of those clubs have spending power beyond our means what would this ambition that we are supposed to lack actually look like? Let's say we had 50m in wages and transfer fees extra to spend... who would we get? Liverpool just splurged 120m! and they are hardly pulling up trees... Are Liverpool ambitious? I would like to read a balanced article that actually considered all circumstances surrounding Arsenal football club in last 7 years or even an article tthat pointed to a club with ambition in Premier league or elsewhere so that we can all look at that club and compare ourselves to them. I would seriously like to know what this ambition actually looks like for a club like ours; who has it?

  55. Nick

    May 09, 2012, 13:41 #22076

    So the Aresenal shareholders are ticked off , well so am i , i dont have any shares in the club, but i consider myself as a lifelong supporter, to have just as much a "share" in the Arsenal as anyone else,along with millions like me, i also despair at the seeming money before anything else culture at the club, and fume when told 3rd or 4th place is akin to a trophy, i would imagine the likes of Norris and Chapman are turning in their graves over the lack of ambition evident among the board members nowadays, they had a vision for this club which has only ever had lip service paid to it since their days, i thought for a time under Dein and Wenger we were going in the right direction once more, but it has proved to a false dawn, we have been lied to and led up the proverbial garden path for too long, the new stadium was to be the catalyst for us to be major players on the world stage, it has not proved so, in fact we are told that we should count our lucky stars that we are where we are, and not in a deep mire at the wrong end of the table, i used to applaud our self sustainable model but now im sick of it, for gods sake give us Usmanov and Dein, give us back our desire to be the BEST!!!!!!!!!

  56. OMG another AAA whiner

    May 09, 2012, 13:38 #22075

    Who are you Fozzy? Head of the AAAs, the editor of LeGrove? Every team's reach exceed their grasp but we have to live with what we can afford. Your shortsighted whining against our current self-sustaining model overlooks most of the facts facing AFc in these harsh economic times. Assuming that RVP will move on is presumpotous of you at least and actually a typically arrogant AAA whiner prediction/wishful thinking at most. Poor you...Wenger doesn't pay anymore attention to your rants than he does to the rest of the AAA morons. The Board has things in hand, they and Wenger are the professionals here, you are simply an amateur Fantasy Football Manager who quotes figures and numbers without any proof of their validity whatsoever (unless you are on the Board but we all know that's impossible) so chill out....3rd is not the best we can expect but against Moneybags ****ty and Manure, it is the best we could have done,speaking pragmatically.

  57. John

    May 09, 2012, 13:35 #22074

    After wading through the treacle that is your prose, I get the idea your message is, Wenger and Board out?

  58. Tony Evans

    May 09, 2012, 13:35 #22073

    Danny Fiszman was a great man for Arsenal but it has to be said that his loathing of David Dein has contributed massively to Kronke's takeover and ensured Usmanov didn't get a look in. So now we have the 2nd richest man on the planet, who has a box at Arsenal, and goes to many matches, without even a seat on the Board; and Silent Stan as owner who probably does not know where North London is. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but God do I wish Usmanov rather than Kronke had taken the club over. The fact that Dead Wood seems to still have more clout at the club than a 30% shareholder says it all.

  59. Fozzy

    May 09, 2012, 13:29 #22072

    Oh, Fozzy's Mate, what a pleasure it is to stand (we never sit) next to you and hear various versions of all of the above rant, now eloquently written down in a language for all to understand. My pen is similarly poised but I really want to get next Sunday out of the way first. Although Weng must set his stall out for a win, he must install some sort of discipline. Firstly, tell Pele that he is a defensive midfield player first; secondly, drop Rambo as he is too knackered to do anything meaningful on Sunday; thirdly, do not be tempted to play Walnutt as he has offered nothing all season, and lastly do play The Ox who can supply more threat than the combined moderate forces of Eboue-with-a-syrup, Chamakh and Walnutt.

  60. Theo Jensen

    May 09, 2012, 13:23 #22071

    A very fair article- some have been concerned that with Usmanov as the main shareholder our club would lose its soul. Economics is not my strong point, but would it not be possible for him to help us with the self-sustaining model? I remember Swiss Rambles citing a few measuers Silent Stan could take to ease our debt burden but he seems to have a 100% Laissez-faire approach! Much as I like our financial model in theory and in principle, when you consider that Chelsea, City and United all spend massive amounts of money on transfers and they are the most successful clubs in recent years, you do wonder how we can compete. You could argue that given the amount of money a team like United get from fans who (almost entirely!) don't come from Manchester and have sponsorship from outside companies, receiving money from the owners isn't particularly reprehensbile. I would like to us to use the self-sustaining model to good effect, but I just can't see it working without us being debt-free with enormous cash reserves to hand. But how many years away is that!?