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Come on Bayern!

Ignore media demands and cheer on Johnny Foreigner

18 May, 2012 10:00 101 comments
Come on Bayern!

Bayern win in 2001. Here’s hoping for a repeat

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A week before the Champions League Final in 2006, I recall listening to a radio phone-in show where a Spurs fan was being lectured by the host that he should support Arsenal in the Final because we should all get behind English clubs.

First of all, I didn’t want or expect Spurs fans to be cheering us on in that Final. We wouldn’t support them, and any Gooner who did would be outcast like a Mormon who rejects their religion. Secondly, our glory would not in be their interests, because if we ever do win the Champions League the first thing we’ll do is let them know about it. Which is exactly what Chelsea will do to the rest of us should they win against Bayern. Chelsea fans are a vulgar bunch at the most bearable of times, and one can only imagine what they’ll be like if crowned Kings of Europe on May 19th. Even with the very worthy consolation of Spurs being denied a Champions League spot for next season, the sight of Chelsea lifting up the trophy will still be a sickly feeling.

The only people who hold and preach the ‘get behind English teams’ view are those in the media, many of whom don’t have a strong and passionate allegiance to any one club. Most of us support our national team, but to say that domestic clubs in the same country don’t get on is an understatement. My guess is that most German football fans dislike Bayern Munich and want Chelsea to win. Think of it like this: a Bayern win means more prestige and more money for that club and will enable Munich to pull further away from the other teams in the Bundesliga. It’s not in the interest of a Stuttgart fan to will them on. In 2006, I travelled to Turin to watch our quarter-final tie against Juventus. The next day we were treated with wonderful hospitality by Torino fans, who were happy and grateful that our club eliminated their neighbours.

Clive Tyldesley’s commentary on Champions League games gives the impression that the whole nation is willing the English team on (of course, the nature of this man’s commentary is generally absurd, but that’s for another article). In Catalonia, the commentary doesn’t suggest brotherly love for other La Liga teams in Europe. Quite the opposite; when Bayern Munich knocked out Real Madrid in the semi-final last month, the Catalonian commentary team cheered on Munich and roared in delight as Madrid crashed out. Bayern Munich are ethically run, in the sense that their fans can attend games for 10 euros. Chelsea, like most Premier League clubs, have priced out and alienated their core support. So again, why would I support an unethical club (other than my own!) just because they’re based in the same country as me?

Pressure for English fans to support home-based teams in Europe hit boiling point in 1999, when Manchester United played Bayern Munich in the Champions League Final. The whole nation were being instructed to support United as if it were unpatriotic not do so. The only voice in the media to speak out strongly against this was Daily Mirror columnist and Liverpool fan, Brian Reade, who was blunt in that he hated United and was hoping for a Munch win. A Munich win the Champion’s League Final - that sounds good to me, though if Chelsea do win this match, I like many Englishmen, will not cheering.

Matthew Bazell is the author of Theatre of Silence: the Lost Soul of Football

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101
comments

  1. Peter Simpson

    May 22, 2012, 21:02 #22833

    Ron- Does a victorious team ALWAYS deserve to win? Or at what point is that not the case? Because all I saw for nearly 120 mins was Bayern attack Chelsea, rip their defence to ribbons and create clear cut chance after clear cut chance, just as Napoli and Barca had done for most of the previous two rounds. Cole was decent and Cahill had his moments but that was it. Chelsea had suspensions but so did Bayern and while Chelsea could replace like for like, Bayern couldn't so the park the bus tactic was as embarrassing as it was unnecessary, but Schweinsteiger's penalty hits the inside of the post and all of a sudden it's the greatest defensive performance since Dunkirk. Sorry mate it's not what I saw despite what ITV and The Sun would have you believe. I don't dislike Chelsea any more than I dislike Utd or Liverpool, and everyone knows that without the Russian's dirty money they'd be neck and neck with Fulham every year so all Saturday's result meant to me was depriving tottenham of £25m of Champion's League money when they're desparate to build a new stadium. Agree with everything you and Tony Evans said about Arsenal but didn't discuss because 1) It's obvious to everyone bar Le Mad Professor 2) It's been done to death here, there and everywhere 3) The original article wasn't about Arsenal. It's handy to use Saturday's result as a stick to beat Arsenal with, and if it helps push for change then I'm all for it, but I just don't think Chelsea deserved to win The Champion's League, that's all.

  2. WHL87

    May 22, 2012, 15:00 #22820

    Most of you on here are totally missing the point. Chelsea winning the CL has got nothing to do with their status as a football club, Didier Drogba, Cashley, Mata, any of them. Without one man and his freshly laundered Rubles, none of it would have happened. Period.

  3. Ron

    May 22, 2012, 12:06 #22805

    Peter Simpson - Its one thing loathing Chelsea fella and we ve all done a bit of that in our time after all, but your comments show Arsenal fans for what theyve become nowadays sadly.' Nothing to do with defending'? What are you on? Drogba and his 'brilliance' means he did what hes been doing for years. Its his routine to win big matches, even as hes declined. Its maybe been so long since we ve seen a genuine big match player at Arsenal that youve forgotten what they do, so ill allow you that one. A team reaps what it sows and if opponents fail to hit levels of excellence, thats how the cookie crumbles. Like it or not, Chav s won it and deserved to. End of. A little concentration on why Arsenal are too lightweight, mentally brittle and physically feeble to even make a challenge for anything remotely shaped like a Cup would be best advised. PS Peter Simpson wouldnt be whinging like you, he d be wanting some of what Chelsea have had for himself!!

  4. Tony Evans

    May 22, 2012, 8:48 #22781

    Peter Simpson (what a steady performer for Arsenal he was) - I agree that had Bayern got their shooting boots on Chelsea would have lost but that does not get away from the fact that there were some top performances at the back - Cole (it hurts me to admit it though) and Cahill in particular.

  5. Peter Simpson

    May 21, 2012, 20:25 #22762

    Tony Evans- Come off it, Napoli, Barca and Bayern ripped open Chelsea's defence almost at will! Chelsea have never say die spirit I'll give you that, but they only won the trophy because Messi, Cavani and Gomez all incredibly happened to leave their shooting boots in the dressing room, nothing to do with Chelsea's defending. But for one piece of Drogba brilliance Chelsea would have been slaughtered for that performance.

  6. Tony Evans

    May 21, 2012, 9:55 #22666

    As a good friend of mine said to me, one of the most depressing aspects of Chelsea's run in the CL was that it was achieved with all the attributes we used to have in spades at Arsenal - namely a tight, well drilled defence, an experienced, quality keeper and a fantastic never say die spirit. I really do not know how much more of Wenger's Arsenal I can take without making myself even more depressed about what is happening to our club.

  7. Angry & Frustrated

    May 21, 2012, 9:30 #22665

    @Fozzy's mate agree with you 100% I was just pointing out that Wenger is graceless, as well as a loser.

  8. fozzy's mate

    May 21, 2012, 9:18 #22664

    DW and angry - 2 things have led us to this trophy drought, arrogance and complacency. Both shown in abundance by board and manager. Gazidis preaches that our model is the envy of the world. OGL preaches about mental strength and spirit and then storms down the tunnel after spending 90 mins berating the officials. Meanwhile the other manager who has spent the game cajoling and coaching from the technical area shakes the refs hand and looks for 0GL. What we have found with OGL is that it is easy to show grace when you are winning all the time. What we now see is an arrogant and graceless man when under pressure surrounding himself with yes men.

  9. Graham

    May 21, 2012, 9:14 #22663

    The score now in European trophies won is now:Chelsea 3 wins(CL and 2 CWC's) Spuds 3 wins(CWC and 2 EUFA cups) Arsenal 2 wins (CWC and Eufa cup).3rd in Eurpean trophies won by London teams.That is just shocking.Wengers European trophy wins:NIL

  10. win AFC

    May 21, 2012, 9:05 #22662

    Like it or lump it Chelsea don't muck around if the manager is not performing ie winning silverware or getting the results on the pitch then GOODBYE. We all know they have the money like Man city but at least they spend it and if that what it takes to get silverware then so be it. remember winning cups that's what gos in the history books not making the AFC board rich.

  11. Angry & Frustrated

    May 21, 2012, 8:46 #22661

    @DW Thomas agree with most things you said, apart from that bit about grace. Wenger has been the most graceless amnager in the entire Premier league for quite a while now! In fact he besmirches our reputation world wide with his blaming everybody especially the officials when things don't go his way, as well as refusing to shake opposition managers hands after games on numerous occasions. To me that is not grace, but the complete opposite!!

  12. Jeff

    May 21, 2012, 2:48 #22660

    I'm commenting after Chelsea's win, Sigh. Just my feeling, but I feel when man city "won" the PL, a little bit of the game I love died, then when chelsea won the CL, a bit more of the game I used to love, died even more. I say this because of the "financial doping" OGL calls it. It's no longer about competition on the pitch, it's just who's got the biggest wad. Very sad. Personally I'm falling out of love with football and that's after over 40 years supporting the Gunners. For those who say it's always been about money, not to the obscene levels those two have taken it. R.I.P Football.

  13. DW Thomas

    May 20, 2012, 23:06 #22659

    I will say had Wenger won the CL in 2006, his current drought of trophies would be easier to take. What I can't stand most is our ex-players/mercs winning things and then gloating how they left a team whose main hope is to finish 3rd or 4th. I don't like it one bit, but they are seeming like they made the right decisions if it is all about championships. I think there is more, winning with class is better, but not winning anything in 8 years while one of our main London rivals wins 10 trophies including the CL beggars belief. Absolutely astounding Wenger is still our coach. Even with an Invincible season, he is now a shadow of his former self and probably should be replaced. I say probably only because I do respect his past glories and how he tries to win with class and grace. At the end of the day/season though it is about winning things, not always how pretty the football is. And we haven't been even close (save CC last year). There are so many negatives it is really hard to think of any positives lately with Arsenal and now our team is routinely emotionally draining. So much potential, such possibilities if only we would add to our squad, fix the defense, and learn some tactics. A little ruthlessness with the squad would be good too. All this has been talked about for years now and all we fans get is groundhog day and more ridiculous quotes from Wenger, anything to excuse the mediocrity that is now ingrained in the team. Finish third, collect your incredible wages (including Le Prof!) and continue to make great players only to sell them or let them go when nothing is won and those surrounding our stars aren't good enough. If I stop long enough to ponder this season alone and last summer and then hear our captain again wants to leave I cannot believe these memories/stories are real. Truth is better than fiction. And to believe a player like Bergkamp never won a CL yet John Terry now is a CL winner. Oh the horror, the horror!!

  14. Greg71

    May 20, 2012, 20:41 #22657

    When Ashley Cole despatched his customary penalty with ease in the shoot out and then said when interviewed thats why i came here that hurt more than the actual outcome. As the time has passed since his departure the above comment is ringing very true,a sad state of affairs for all concerned at Arsenal plc !

  15. Well Done

    May 20, 2012, 14:49 #22654

    as i said Arsenal could never do what Chelsea did to Barca. stand firm, top spirit, individual ability and toughness. Same was clearly present last night taking on Munich in a final in front of their own fans. Big personalities shone out. Drogba, Lampard, Cole, Cech. Winners and Winners and that is all there is to it and you have to have winners at your club not nice boys who always do what the boss says. Winners who when it is going wrong (Villas Boyas), find a way to let the world know. All respect to Chelsea. The knew the value of Cahill. some of his body-on-line tackles were inspiring.

  16. Jason B

    May 20, 2012, 14:29 #22653

    So Chelsea won the match.Where does it leave Arsenal & Spurs now.Both finished above them.But are they really Lonodn's top 2 teams? Over the premier league season,yes.But if you look at the whole picture,i say no.Chelsea may change their coach once a year,but it hasn't stopped them winning trophies,has it? Arsenal and Spurs may have finished above Chelsea but didn't get anywhere near the Manchester clubs.They need to bring in coaches who know how to mentally motivate players,properly.Until they do,Arsenal & Spurs will struggle to get to the carling cup final,let alone premier & champions league winners.

  17. Any Old Iron

    May 20, 2012, 13:06 #22652

    I congratulate Chelsea wholeheartedly. What they achieved is immense. Sheer brute courage, determination, resolve. Chelsea have been London's top dogs for years now anyway, and have brought the trophy to our capital in the olympic year. The side issues of Spurs not qualifying, first London club to win, rivalry, jealousy; they've done what we've been unable to do. Well done to them. They have resources, they use them. We have resources.....? Tired of Arsenal's sterility. Other clubs don't stand still. What a battle we've got next season, again. With the current philosophy be ready for others (****ty) to beat us to this prize too! Ah...but we're a well run club, ah but the patrons are hungry Mr Kroenke, and ANGRY Mr Gazidis, and bored by Arsene Wenger!

  18. Tony

    May 20, 2012, 12:36 #22651

    Wenger after the disgraceful loss to Man Utd in the CL semi final "The most important thing is for Arsenal to finish in the top 4" and after last years defeat by Barcelona "I would take finishing 2nd for 20 years in a row".Thats the mentality of the man.Last year Chelsea sacked a manager who finished 2nd because they failed in Europe.We pay Wenger £7m a year for making us also rans.Thats why Chelsea win and we dont.Today is a day that every Arsenal fan should look at themselves and ask why do we put up with it.Only the fans can get rid of Wenger because Kroenke certainly wont

  19. Canterbury Gooner

    May 20, 2012, 12:35 #22650

    It's like one of the commenters said on here the other day, Chelsea haven't won any trophies under Abramovich- they've all been bought. Chelsea are the most soulless club in the world right now. At least City are committed to buying classy players and I have to admit some of their football in that team is a guilty pleasure of mine to watch. Chelsea on the other hand have really papered over the cracks with RDM- they just defend and then boot it forward to Drogba. Virtually no finesse in that team. Anyway, Spurs not reaching the CL isn't much consolation- they have a pretty complete starting XI apart from a striker, and while Adebayor might not sign now, their thin squad won't be as stretched which can only help their league campaign now sadly.

  20. Gman

    May 20, 2012, 12:14 #22649

    What made me even more depressed last night than watching Chavski winning the CL trophy was the thought of groundhog day next season. We've been in the f--king CL for 15 consecutive years now with only one final appearance and without RVP there would be even less chance of winning anything let alone the CL. I'm off to slit my wrists!

  21. Graham

    May 20, 2012, 11:58 #22648

    Spot on Kenny.I remember some deluded Gooners saying thank god we didnt sign Cahill as we got Mertesacker instead!!!.Remember the poll recently that asked whose position we would rather be in two cup finals or to finish 3rd.Well those who voted finishing 3rd you got your answer last night.Football is all about winning and not settling for 3rd best.Too many Gooners have been brainwashed into thinking 3rd and 4th are a trophy.What was it Wenger was saying Chelsea were a cup team.Yes Mr Wenger they are the Champions of Europe.RVP will leave and no one can blame him.And yes Chelsea have won TEN trophies since we last won one.All together now "you aint got no history"

  22. Angry & Frustrated

    May 20, 2012, 11:15 #22647

    Not sure what is more sickening, watching the chavs win the CL, or knowing Wenger and our board being content with things as they stand. On reflection the latter!!

  23. Chris

    May 20, 2012, 11:13 #22646

    Seven Kings and Jock - I couldn't dissagree more. Chelsea's win will have no bearing or embarrasment for Arsenal Football Club, no policies will be amended, no extra money will be spent. The only people affected by this result will be the supporters, who will now have to suffer Chelsea fans gloating for so many years to come. Even more of a shame is that I thought this might have been Chelsea's last true bite at the cherry given the new UEFA rules creating a handicap.

  24. Gare Kekeke

    May 20, 2012, 11:02 #22645

    Well I hope those who wanted a Chelsea win are happy now. Get ready for the constant gloating that will come our way from their fans when we play Chelsea from next season. The lack of history songs that we sing to them are wearing thin. And don’t expect a revolution to happen at our club either. We’re only in the Champions League to make money. Clubs like Chelsea are in it to win it. Until there is a change of ethos from boardroom level, it will be us living on past glories whereas the likes of Chelsea & Manchester City will celebrate their recent successes. It’s not nice, but we have to deal with it. Up The Arsenal!

  25. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    May 20, 2012, 11:01 #22644

    To be honest I laughed my head off when Drogba equalised, as it revealed that fate's die was cast in their favour. They did to Bayern what we did to Parma in '94, apart from conceding first, but i'm not splitting hairs over that. All else I can add is that they had a centre half who turned in a man of the match performance with a busted hamstring. I lament that our club's penny pinching administration's shocking habit of fiddling with the pennies caused the failure of his signature.

  26. fozzy's mate

    May 20, 2012, 10:38 #22643

    Kenny - how right you are mate. The 2 players we really wanted were Mata and Cahill but despite our cash reserve of 120 million (as per the last accounts) and making 41 million last summer on player trading a couple of years after making 40 million unspent on the sales of Adebayor and Toure, we were not prepared to pay the requires sums. Cole, Nasri, Cesc and how many others point out that they left to join clubs that want to win trophies. Another ex player Campbell comments that we do not actually want to win anything. With this football clueless but economically savvy board above Wenger the increasingly erratic economics graduate we will not change or improve on the pitch. Our board will continue to preach to the masses and pump out the propaganda. The brainwashed wengerites abd people who ignore the published figures will hark back to 2004 and the groundhog day will continue. RVP will be seen lifting a trophy but sadly not with us. But according to the board we are the envy of world football.

  27. clockendpaul

    May 20, 2012, 10:30 #22642

    Self sustainability ha ha ha ha, bull**** and losers thats what this club has been turned into. To all you wenger lovers you get what you deserve, and if i were robin i'd look at last night and want a piece of that and he aint going to get it at this stale club under a deluded french fool, another top player sold, how long before wilshere goes thats if he ever comes back after being run into the ground by wenger. Usmanov and dein must come in for things to change.

  28. Andrew Cohen

    May 20, 2012, 10:25 #22641

    Chelsea are an eminently beatable team and indeed we regularly do so. The difference is that we could never in a million years defend like them because our management is not remotely interested in the defensive part of the game. This is a bit like a golf coach not being interested in putting. Enjoyable comments this morning as cast iron proof of our decline comes home with a bang. Such introspection will not be felt by the owner or Mr Wenger or the AKB's who like to keep a well tended shrine for him in their hearts and homes. I'm afraid that it is up to us to make enough noise to get rid.

  29. Gunner666

    May 20, 2012, 10:19 #22640

    Gooner4life thanks appreciate your sentiments which I won't be following, but I do get on with a lot of decent Chelsea fans who will be lording it over me for some time but I thought thats what supporting a football team was all about, ups and downs and good humoured banter.One of the sadded comments on here was about the players that have left and gone on to bigger and better things, a sad fact of life for the majority of us Arsenal supporters.

  30. Kenny

    May 20, 2012, 10:01 #22639

    We used to sing to Chelsea you aint got no history now thats all we have got.History.All we hear is what Wenger did 8 years ago.Seeing Chelsea lift the CL made me sick.But our manager on £7m a year and our overpaid under-achievers havent got the desire they had.Compare the Chelsea performances v Barca and Bayern and our disgraceful performance in Milan.The culture at Arsenal is a rewarding failure culture.We were after Mata and Cahill last summer they are now double winners.Today is a sad day for Arsenal but its only our fans who will be hurting

  31. Joe S.

    May 20, 2012, 9:33 #22638

    I hope the AKB's don't expend too much of their energy gloating over the fact that the Spuds have been gutted. God I hate Chelsea. I have never seen a team for whom the ball has run so consistantly favouralbly over so many games. But at the same time while watching I had to admire in despair at just how good a player Ashley Cole is and how when Arsenal lost him we lost an imortant part of our future. Sure he is aptly named $$$ butI don't think the money was everything. At that illicit meeting the wheeler deelers at Chelsea must have also dangled him a future which being the smart operater he is, was not on offer at Arsenal. Again it comes down to Wegner and the loser club culture he has been nurturing. If he were such an inspiring wonderful father figure of a manager why have so many once in a generation players qued up to jump ship? Ambition counts for a lot Sour grapes aside I'm glad I won't be in London this year to experience the Chav's fans showing the world what a bunch of arrogant boofs they mostly are.

  32. Gary

    May 20, 2012, 9:29 #22637

    Cesc wins trophies in Spain.Nasri and Clichy won the premiership.And to top it all Cashley wins the CL.Yet Wenger wonders why our best players want to leave.I wonder what RVP's thoughts were watching the game last night? while he looked at his 3rd place medal.Three things need to happen at Arsenal The manager, Kroenke and Gazidis must go.Usmanov must come back with Dein as chairman.

  33. AFC14

    May 20, 2012, 9:10 #22635

    Chelsea has now won 10 titles (I think) since we won our last one. Not good enough Mr.Wenger.

  34. Ron

    May 20, 2012, 8:44 #22634

    Ray Kennedy,Thierry Henry,Gio Van Bronkhust,Silvinho,Helb and now Cashley all ex Arsenal players who left our club and who WON the biggest prize.While our total of wins is Nil.Chelsea are now the first London team to win the CL while our manager is happy to just qualify and get knocked out in the last 16.Our record in the CL is nothing short of pathetic.Hope you were embarassed last night Wenger

  35. Alastair Kerr

    May 20, 2012, 8:38 #22633

    Expect Wenger now to come out and congratulate Chelsea, which will be the final insult.

  36. Jock Gooner

    May 20, 2012, 8:36 #22632

    Yes well the Chelsea chavs have won it and yes it will be written in history. It just seems to me that they really wanted it more than we did. Sorry guys but we have got to stop worrying about what other clubs may or may not do and start worrying about why WE aren't doing it. We have had plenty of chances over the years to win the bloody thing IF we really wanted to BUT and heres the rub, our current BOARD are not really that bothered about winning it. They are happy to be in it for the cash and that's it. We are a business now and profit is key. Thank you Seven Kings Gooner, another voice of reason. This club is screwed until Dein returns. He started the whole thing - Wenger, Bergamp, Platt... David Dein nobody else. Think about the sanity of the people who outed him, he was Mr Football in the UK and he was ours until some of the egotistical dicks pushed him out. Since then......decline! Have you all written your season tickets cheques with a grimace on your face again for next season. RVP staying.....?

  37. Danny

    May 20, 2012, 0:40 #22630

    Congratulations Nasri and Cole for wining trophies RVP, is your turn. You will never win anything with this lot! Wenger and american idiots out!!!!

  38. Ronster

    May 19, 2012, 23:58 #22629

    What's that Arse-ne? Chelsea just a cup team are they? I hope you severely choke on your croissant tomorrow morning...

  39. gooner4life

    May 19, 2012, 23:41 #22628

    Gunner666 ..Problem is the Chavs don't see it this way..the CL win will be proof to them of their superiority over us and validation of Abramovich's spending. If you are happy to see Chelsea winning CL perhaps you should head down the Bridge and join in those who feel the same way...

  40. nugs

    May 19, 2012, 20:23 #22625

    Bayern all day long, hate those deluded scumbags from down the road more than anyone but chelsea's money don't deserve a trophy like the cl! Sperz will get spanked anyway by the first decent club they face as usual in europe.

  41. Wenger Out

    May 19, 2012, 19:06 #22624

    I don't know how any Arsenal supporter could want Chelsee to win. Another London Club winning the CL before us?! Granted we have no chance of winning it with Wenger in charge but neverthelss I hope that lot get thrashed.

  42. Richard drury

    May 19, 2012, 19:02 #22623

    I have to agree with most of your points.The only time I can remember wanting another English side to win this competition Is Liverpool back in the day, but I guess that's through rose tinted glasses to an extent. Like all Gooners, I've had to thinkabout this one, bot there's no doubt, I'd rather see Spurs qualify than Chelsea.Even if they were in a straight contest for 4th place, I think I'd still want the same.I loathe Chelsea & their vile suppoerters more every year!! Come on Bayern

  43. Nick

    May 19, 2012, 16:34 #22621

    Well said Matthew , i like you will be hoping the odious chavs and their cheating amoral captain, their money grabbing idiot of a left back, their diving actor of a forward and the rest of the nasty slimy bunch, who couldnt or most likely wouldnt play for one manager, then got him the sack and promptly started turning up at games again are not only beaten but HUMBLED, the only saving grace of a win for them, would be that the mafia donski then having achieved his dream, pulls his money out and puts it into F1,Leaving the odious gits potless once again, oh that and the scum being relegated to thursday nights, i also would not support citeh or manure if they got into the cl finals because their also despicable gits, it goes without saying i wouldnt wish the "other " lot well in anything they do and if that makes me a bad sportsman so be it , i have ARSENAL blood running through my veins , that said im hoping for a Blackpool win against Fat Bloody Sams lot today as well.

  44. Seven Kings Gooner

    May 19, 2012, 9:58 #22613

    Chris - Spuds are a rich club because they have never paid the salaries they are going to have to pay if they want to keep their top players. Without C/L cash they will need to cut back some of their ambitions - IMO Chelsea will win the CL one day anyway, due to the money Abramovich will keep throwing at the playing staff. I'm with Jock Gooner, a Chelsea win might just shake our board out of it's stupor when it realizes real players win the top trophies not "Youth prodigies" Our playing staff is filled with players who no one else wants and have cost us millions in a well meaning project which has cost us trophies and will soon see another captain leave because he knows we are not going to strengthen our squad enough to stand a chance of winning the top prizes.

  45. Bergkamp10

    May 19, 2012, 8:07 #22611

    Ask yourselves this... Could you stomach seeing Ca$hley lifting the cup with big ears? I know i couldn't.

  46. Angry & Frustrated

    May 19, 2012, 7:51 #22609

    Abramovich bought Chelsea because he wanted to see & have the kudos of owning something which could win the Champ League. This is well documented, but what happens if this transpires? Once he has got what he wanted almost 10 years on were they to win, would he then like a spoilt child throw his plaything away or perhaps want to repeat this achievement with another club thus making him the first owner to have won it twice? Just a thought, but this game could spell the end of Abramovich for Chelsea and where would Chelsea be then without their benefactor? Hopefully in a similar position as Leeds from a few years ago.

  47. West

    May 19, 2012, 6:56 #22607

    Brlliant debate! The Germans win, we like them dont we (PM & LP), Spurs get knocked out of qualifier. Everyones happy!Well nearly everyone.

  48. Gary Fox

    May 19, 2012, 6:37 #22606

    "Get behind an English team" - owned by a Russian, managed by an Italian, the top striker is a cheat and the star English players are a 'we know what you are' thug and a greedy b*stard! I'm a Spurs fan and whether our involvement in CL depended on the result or not, I'd want Chelski to lose. Arsenal fans would want us to lose if we were in the final and vice versa.....hell, I even want Blackpool to beat West Spam so that those Loverble Cockernee Racists dont get back into the Prem. Its called 'rivalry' and most media pundits dont get it because they dont have to put up with the gloating and bragging that comes from a rival team's fans doing the business. So come on Bayern and Blackpool!

  49. slj

    May 19, 2012, 0:18 #22602

    No one in England including the media wanted us to beat Bara in 2006, we have always been hated end of story. I was gutted in 1999 when the Mancs snatched it, just hope Bayern dont mess up again, Chelski are already unbearable

  50. Clockender78

    May 18, 2012, 20:16 #22594

    Bayern all the way for me!!

  51. Gooner SA

    May 18, 2012, 20:08 #22593

    Come on Chelsea!! Then Bale and Modric to piss off and Tottenham to finish 7th next season!

  52. PerryG

    May 18, 2012, 20:03 #22592

    Cant stand Chelsea and the thought of rat boy Cole lifting that trophy is sickening, Come on Bayern wipe the smile off the Russian gangsters face. Arsenal are top dogs in London but this will be threatened if the Chavs win

  53. Barnaby Beaver74

    May 18, 2012, 18:37 #22588

    Bayern win, the spuds lose in the qualifiers its win win!!!!

  54. Jock Gooner

    May 18, 2012, 17:45 #22585

    Chelsea to win. Keep the scum on the floor where they belong. Also it will be a suitable insult to the board of London's premier club if Chelsea become the first London club to win the big one! This might help bring forward the revolution at Arsenal that is required to get things back on track. How will you feel writing your season ticket cheque for next season if Chelsea win the CL, RVP waves goodbye, Podolski turns out to be the only signing and Jack's backside is back on the treatment table. It's looking grim friends.

  55. Chris

    May 18, 2012, 17:43 #22584

    To those of you that want Chelsea to win at the expense of a meagre Spuds Champ League exit - you are so short sighted! If Spurs make the Champions League, it is of no consequence, they are a rich club regardless. If Chelsea win the thing, it gets recorded forever.. an achievement which Arsenal have not managed and their bragging rights for many many years will be terrible. Think 10 years time guys... will you even remember whether Spurs made the Champions League or not? Chelsea will still be singing those gloating songs....

  56. Brian

    May 18, 2012, 17:41 #22583

    Not to mention that no champions league next season for chelsea would be a major financial blow for an aging overpaid squad.

  57. exiled&dangerous

    May 18, 2012, 17:27 #22582

    Don't want Chelski to do it, but there's a small consolation there if they don't. Another question - do you want Blackpool or West Ham to win the play-off? Loved Blackpool's approach last time around, but also enjoyed our away games against WHU too, mainly because we met this same crowd of Hammers every year for a few beers before the game......

  58. CanadaGooner

    May 18, 2012, 17:18 #22581

    Yes, unfortunately, it's COME ON BAYERN from me as well this year. Normally I support whichever british team's left in the CL after Arsenal exit, but this year it's about turn! Much as I would love to see Tottenham miss out after finishing 4th (they'll be back in Europa League soon enough anyway), I wouldnt want to see a team that could only manage a 6th place finish in the league (Chelski) playing CL football the following season; that pretty much defeats the purpose of a tournament that's meant to showcase the top clubs from each league in Europe. Come on Bayern!!!

  59. Gee

    May 18, 2012, 16:20 #22578

    Bayern all the way. I never want an English team other than Arsenal to do well in any competition. I hate Barca but was over the moon when they pumped United last season. I will be rooting 100% for Bayern. Dump on Chelsea and that means no CL for them next season. In turn this means more damaging losses in the accounts. Knock against FFP as this is a year of monitoring now. The knock on effects are HUGE. Players not wanting to go there due to zero CL etc etc. We saw how this has effected Liverpool, who commence the 3rd season of no CL footy in August. Do Chelsea show any signs of being better than a 6th or 7th placed PL side? NO? and they won't without monsterous reinvestment, which will not be available.

  60. allybear

    May 18, 2012, 16:18 #22577

    Guildford Gooner im a Gooner for many years and i dont have bias as im a football fan&like you i just want to see a good game of football. I dont go with this childish notion of i hope that team gets beaten because etc etc. Some of the comments on this site truly show that some people are only interested in their own team&are not true football fans. Football fans enjoy the whole game¬ only one team!

  61. Bonestep

    May 18, 2012, 15:45 #22576

    I am in total agreement with the media. Of course we should support ANY English based team when they play against non-English clubs; taking the media at their word, Swansea must be the most hated team in the Premier league!! As a spurs fan I hope to see a Spurs - Arsenal game in the CL, where two built not bought sides with real support, not glory hunters, can cheer on their respective sides. I will back whoever wins that to go on and win the CL. (sorry, don't want to see the game as the final as I couldnt get a ticket, but at the Lane/Emirates - makes your mouth water!!)

  62. LJB

    May 18, 2012, 15:17 #22575

    Spot on Tony Evans,i would love Usmanov to own this club and splash his cash about;maybe some of his facebook profits!!Seeing as Arsenal has benefited from the"financial doping" that is the CL i find it a bit rich Arsenal fans criticising clubs that have had to build success a different way.I have no time for petty morals;you're a long time dead,i'm not getting any younger and i would like to see this club win the CL,or even another trophy,before i expire.Under the present regime that will never happen.

  63. Archie

    May 18, 2012, 15:13 #22574

    Come on Bayern! Chelsea are one of the few clubs that most people are united in hating. A gormless looking chairman who applauds each goal like a chimp, a club captain that is scum personified and a filthy racist following that brings shame everywhere they go. Yes, I don't like Chelski one bit. It says something when we would prefer for a German team to triumph ahead of an English one.

  64. kilkenny cat

    May 18, 2012, 14:44 #22572

    This is always a major debate between fans. The other one is the club vs country arguement. As an Irishman its never really applies to us.i hate chelsea,especially the nf,bnp scum that follow them. Come on Bayern,please save us from this nightmare

  65. mikjos

    May 18, 2012, 13:52 #22570

    I dislike pretty much everything about Chelsea as a club but I'd still like to see them beat Bayern and it's not because they're English. It's simply because Chelsea have got some of the qualities that are so badly lacking at Arsenal at the moment - a good defense, a defiant, bloody-minded attitude, and a will to win. In terms of footballing quality, Chelsea are nowhere near the standard they were at a few years ago, but if they do win the Champions League then maybe AW will learn that there's more to football than just pretty passing.

  66. Vip

    May 18, 2012, 13:34 #22567

    Bayern to win and the Spuds to knocked out in the CL qualifier. BLISS.

  67. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 18, 2012, 13:21 #22565

    Well said matt i certainly don't want to see the chavs winning the CL and the likes of terry holding it aloft do you think for one minute they would be supporting us ? of course it will mean the spuds getting a chance to qualify but who cares about them they've been firmly put back in their place (in our shadow)and even if they were to qualify they'll not get to far anyway and it will be another chance to have a laugh at them.It will also be good to see the chavs and roman with all his billions sitting up in the stands on thursday nights on channel 5.Your right about certain commentators you can just hear them now wetting themselves when the chavs get over the halfway line. Bayern all the way.

  68. El Bodgeo

    May 18, 2012, 13:19 #22563

    Why is our Gooner full of Spuds fans? I have never ever logged onto a Spuds website, let alone felt the need to comment on their rubbishy little world. As much as I dislike Chelski, I hope they smash Bayern and provide us gooners with a thoroughly enjoyable footnote to our otherwise lousy season. Suffer little spuds.

  69. Tony Evans

    May 18, 2012, 13:14 #22562

    I do have to laugh at the way some of us say how much we detest Chelsea, City and any other club that has bought success. For me it smacks of hypocrisy because I for one would not mind at all if Usmanov somehow gained control of Arsenal and started spending his money. I don't expect RVP would mind either and the ink would be dry on his new contract already. It is all very well patting ourselves on the back and saying isn't it great that we are trying to do the right thing financially as a club, but judging from most of the comments, we are all fed up with the current situation at Arsenal and until football's finances are properly sorted out, and a level playing field is created, the only people we are kidding are ourselves.

  70. ohnorflondon

    May 18, 2012, 13:11 #22561

    I find your comments sad at the least and it's obvious you were never in the debating team. Chelsea fans are vulgar? Really how many have you met, worked with? As an Englishman as you state, you actually support a team that has very few of them in it. You actually fit the typical Arsenal fan profile down to a T.

  71. Peter Wain

    May 18, 2012, 13:03 #22560

    I struggle to understand how any self respecting Gooner would want a result to occur which benefitted the Scum. I am fully behind Chelsea and hope they win as witha bit of luck Bale and Modric will leave. Anything which makes the Scum weaker is ok with me.

  72. RJ

    May 18, 2012, 12:59 #22559

    ????? Bit of short sightism, my fello Gunners. The better that English teams do, the more places we get in the CL (up to the maximum of 4). If English teams don't well, we will reach a point where only 3 or 2 english teams get into the CL. That makes it harder for us to qualify and if we don't qualify, we don't get the money and the prize to attract the big players. Which we already struggle to do. So for me, much as I think they are an execrable bunch of human beings, I hope Chelsea win.

  73. danalovAFCXI

    May 18, 2012, 12:39 #22558

    I remember 1999 and the manure final. I can honestly say that i have never been so gutted outside of an Arsenal match.At the time I was even promising myself i would buy a Bayern Shirt and rub it in to any manure fans about (and considering i lived in Kent at the time their were **** loads). I would be mildly amused if the chavs deny spurs a place in the champions league by default but equally i know how disgusted i would be to see the chavs lift the cup. for a short while us and the spuds share a common interest and so for that reason I am once again a temp Bayern fan. Whatever the result I remain and always will do a loyalist Gooner.

  74. stuksta

    May 18, 2012, 12:37 #22557

    There shouldn't even be a debate on this! Why is there?! It's simple; we'd like Bayern to hammer chavski to prevent them from becoming London's first Champions League winners; a special title that we'd never never hear the end of if they did! The spuds would then enter the Champions League, IF (BIG IF) they win the play-off to qualify, which they'd hopefully lose, but at the least it would hamper their start to the new season. Even if the spuds won the qualifier, they're in the Champions League. So what?! They're hardly going to win it and we'd prefer them in the Champions League for a season to the chavs having won it, surely?!

  75. Andrew Cohen

    May 18, 2012, 12:22 #22555

    But if OGL had built on what he achieved in or by 2004, rather than frittering it away, we would have won the thing already. If Chelsea win the cup it will be on merit having beaten Barca at home and having survived matters being arranged to Barcelona's satisfaction in the Camp Nou. Aston Villa have won the Cup and Nottingham Forest twice. Red Star Belgrade have done so and any number of other teams that we might consider ourselves to be "bigger" than. We have enough money to win the competition. We need a manager who can cut the mustard, then we won't have to worry about bragging rights. Hoping that another team that you don't like will get beaten by another team you don't like, because your team can't get there themselves is a very Spurs like thing to wish for.

  76. Lord Froth

    May 18, 2012, 12:13 #22554

    I want Arsenal to be the first London team to win the CL and I would also like Arsenal to meet Spurs at some point in the CL, can you imagine how fantastic the atmosphere would be? So I have to throw my hat into the Bayern camp for the final.

  77. Michael Preston

    May 18, 2012, 11:45 #22553

    Is there seriously any Arsenal supporter who could countenance John Terry winning the cup (even if he's not on the pitch)? He's enough to make me support whoever England are playing.

  78. Gare Kekeke

    May 18, 2012, 11:36 #22552

    I’m supporting Bayern Munich for the reason is that I don’t want Chelsea to be the first London team to win the European Cup. Quite frankly, I don’t want them to ever win it but that’s another debate. If they did, could all Arsenal AND Tottenham fans imagine all the goading we’ll get from their fans when we play them from next season? We’ll never hear the end of it. We’ll have to put up with songs like ‘have you ever won the Champions League, have you f*ck!’ & “Champions League, you’re havin’ a laugh!’ It’s bad enough Aston Villa fans taunt us for not winning that trophy but the classless chavs? No thanks. Oh yeah and the thought of Terry & Cole lifting that trophy is almost enough to make me sick. If you’re a true Gooner AND Lilywhite, you’ll be cheering on Bayern Munich. So come on Bayern Munchen!

  79. Guildford Gooner

    May 18, 2012, 11:35 #22551

    I must be the only person watching this game without a bias either way.I am hoping for a good game of football and may the best team win.On paper Bayern should come out on top and I think they will.If Chelsea do win then it will make a mockery of the Champions League being an elite competition as they are only the sixth placed team in the EPL and certainly not the best in Europe.Still its a one off game and if they do come out on top without outragous cheating or luck then fair play to them.

  80. Joe Fitzpatrick

    May 18, 2012, 11:33 #22550

    I'm not sure why the scum are so twitchy about the final. Bayern are at home and Chelski are missing key players. You will make the champions league for next season and I really hope that we get to knock you out ourselves. Forever in our shadow.

  81. lilywhitemike

    May 18, 2012, 10:40 #22548

    nice article. It beggars belief why certain media people (and some fans) bang on about us having to support english teams. It just makes no sense. (take the whole Spurs Champions League thing out of the equation and just look at the final itself) - So we all cheer on Chelsea, and are delighted if they win the trophy 'for England' - and then they are European Champions, all the best players want to sign for them instead of our teams, they rise to the top of the table, knock us out of the Top 4 places and beat us in all the cups, and we're supposed to be supporting this?!! bollocks. Come on Bayern!!

  82. Ron Burgundy

    May 18, 2012, 10:33 #22546

    As a Spurs, I respect Arsenal and the way they've built success, which is stark contrast the way Chelsea have gone about their business, and for which I have no respect - same with City really. As far as I'm concerned Chelsea should be bankrupt, so they don't really deserve to be there anyway

  83. Seven Kings Gooner

    May 18, 2012, 10:24 #22545

    I am with GunnerForever - come on Chelsea! - but for different reasons. I am a 60+ Gooner who has always seen the Sp*ds as our main rivals. Sp*ds face real problems if, by Chelsea winning,they fall out of the C/L. The payroll at the Lane is low by top 4 standards and will need some major adjustments upwards if the Totts want to keep Bale, Moderic and VDV. Starved of much needed cash, not only will keeping players be a problem but signing quality new players will be difficult if Champions League football is not available. I can tolerate Chelsea being the first london club to win the C/L if it damages the Sp*ds and derails their future plans!

  84. WHL 87

    May 18, 2012, 10:19 #22544

    I have more respect for Spurs as a football club than I will ever have for Chelsea. Pre-Abramovich they were a nothing outfit, with no support, no tradition and no history who'd nearly gone bust 3 times in my lifetime - when Bates bought for a £1 in the 70s, when Harding bailed them out out mid 90s and then, spectacularly, when the Russion Gangster turned them into the richest club in the world overnight, wiping out a £200M debt. I don't want them to win the CL because they shouldn't even be in it - they've won nothing since the the 2000 FA Cup, they've bought it all. AFC - BUILT NOT BOUGHT. Up the Krauts.

  85. Tony Evans

    May 18, 2012, 9:54 #22543

    Agreed - there is no way I wish to see any English club apart from Arsenal winning the CL. I have been waiting for donkeys years for Arsenal to win the big one and it really rubs salt in the wound when another English team wins it. Of course with Wenger / Kronke in charge I have resigned myself to waiting for a good few more years yet!

  86. Ron

    May 18, 2012, 9:50 #22542

    Come on Bayern! The days of backing the english team went years ago. Most of the clubs now have no totally english integrity ever since the influx of the foreign players anyway. On the Spurs Arsenal point, to be brutally honest, i would be less inclined to Bayern if it was Spurs in the Final. Spurs are at least a real football Club and always have been whatever our rivalry says. Ive never been sure what Chelsea are, but theyve always been a tacky cheap outfit going back to the 60s. Nowadays, they have a rump of odious players and i cant wish them good luck under any circumstances.The trouble is, while i think its all academic anyway and i think Munich wil win, i wouldnt go so far as to write Chelsea off. Its the old lags last hurrah there after all and they ll dig in for sure.

  87. Carlos

    May 18, 2012, 9:49 #22541

    Couldn't care less

  88. SpursSi

    May 18, 2012, 9:36 #22540

    I want Bayern to win (Yes I am a Spurs fan) - and by the way if Arsenal were in the final and Spurs were not effected by you lot winning it then I would actually support Arsenal so your wrong there, a lot of my friends are gooners we only hate each other for 180 mins a season! to be really honest! any for me I would love to actually see NORTH LONDON in CL next season not the scum of the south

  89. Derby Gooner

    May 18, 2012, 9:27 #22539

    Re Vic's comments - as a lifelong gooner, I echo your sentiments. I'm old enough to rmember the healthy rivalry and banter before it all got a bit nasty. This season has been been much better in my experience, with many more funny exchanges, as we have both come a cropper at various times, and of course the 5-2 was splendidly cathartic...why did did we stop scoring after 68 minutes? Some betting scam I suspect.. Anyway, if you look at the online gooner referendum and submit a vote(centre of home page) you will see that 82% want Chelsea to loose. So there you have it.

  90. AshburtonMark

    May 18, 2012, 9:11 #22536

    Jimbobbles, why would you be singing Deutschland etc.... the Germans removed it from their national anthem in 1990. Both you and Larry should check your facts. ps What's going on here, so many pieces written by Sp*ds, I thought this was the Gooner!

  91. Angry & Frustrated

    May 18, 2012, 9:03 #22535

    Another good reason for wanting Bayern, is that Wenger in his own mind will think "well we finished above Chelsea, therefore my squad is better and therefore we will win it next year without any new additions"! Anti Wenger comment yes, but that is how his mind works!!

  92. chrisy boy

    May 18, 2012, 8:56 #22534

    i want bayern to win, even though it means the scum will qualify. All that is wrong with football today stems from the day ken bates sold his soul to roman and his billions. Chelsea are a vile horrible club led by that excuse of a man john terry.

  93. chris dee

    May 18, 2012, 8:53 #22533

    It's a really really tough choice. Do I support a rival English team against a German team? After all with lovely,likeable,modest,unassuming,aimiable chaps like Ashley Cole,John Terry and Frank Lampard and Honest Didier Drogba it's gonna be a hard decision to make. I'm sure all Arsenal fans will be having sleepless nights agonising over which team to support tomorrow.

  94. My Old Man Said...

    May 18, 2012, 8:27 #22530

    Whoever Brian Moonick is - I want him to win.

  95. jimbobbles

    May 18, 2012, 8:14 #22529

    I'd like to echo Vic's post above; he's got this spot on. As much as I dislike Arsenal it almost feels like I have to because I am a Spurs fan. My hatred for Chelsea is on another level completely. I can't say I speak for all of us but, if it were Arsenal in our position and you were reliant on a Bayern win to qualify for next season's Champions League, I would still be singing "Deutschland, Deutschland, über alles!" and Germanifying my Twitter account! COME ON BAYERN!!

  96. GunnerForever

    May 18, 2012, 8:03 #22528

    Larrry get your facts right, even inf chelsea win uefa have confirmed that the 3rd placed team (arsenal in this case) do not have to go through a qualifier, it means that all 4 teams automatically go into the group stages of next seasons champions league. PS. Even though I am arsenal through and through & have been a season ticket holder for 15 years now I will still support most english clubs when they're in europe, regardless of who they're playing... so I say come on Chelsea!!!!!

  97. Hamza Ali

    May 18, 2012, 7:52 #22527

    Larrry from Spain, Arsenal do not have to play Qualifying Round. They are through to the group stages regardless of the outcome of tomorrow's final

  98. DARREL PEACOCK

    May 18, 2012, 7:42 #22525

    from a fanatical spurs supporter ,it pains me ,but i have to agree with you,i would never support an english team,especially a london team,this game is about rivalry,and i love it,as long as it dont go ott....COME ON BAYERN !!!!!

  99. Vic

    May 18, 2012, 7:31 #22524

    The rivalry between Spurs and Arsenal fans over the years is a treasure I've enjoyed for far too many years to remember. If we take the lunatic fringe away from both sets of fans, we're left with a healthy ... and here I struggle to find a word that describes it. In fact there probably isn't a word that describes it. It's not hatred (that's too strong), dislike (that's too bland) no it's a mixture of many emotions that defy description. But now I find after all these years a strange affection for my traditional foes (I'm a Spurs fan by the way). Our two clubs stand alone against the multi-glomerate obscenities that are Chelsea and City. More so Chelsea who I despise with a passion. You'll find many Spurs or Arsenal fans who have friends or family of the opposite persuasion and this provokes 'debates' like no other. When speaking to an Arsenal chum earlier in the season, when you lot were catching us up, I said I would love to see our two clubs go head to head in the Champions League and so whichever of our teams gets lumbered with that 4th place I would still want Chelsea to lose for that reason. In fact I would want Chelsea to lose whoever they were playing in any competition. So I would be interested to know what percentage of Arsenal fans will be cheering for the German team on Saturday. I'd like to think it will be the majority. But then I'm a romantic.

  100. Larrry from spain

    May 18, 2012, 7:13 #22523

    as a spurs fan i want bayern to win but dont forget that if chelsea win arsenal have to play a qualifying round which could be tricky so come on the germans.

  101. Gunner666

    May 18, 2012, 7:04 #22522

    Bayern aren't pulling away they have been overhauled by BVB - Borussia Dortmund09 who are also ethically run, whatever that means, cheap seats by your logic.I hope Chelsea win not because of media pressure but because I like to see English clubs do well in Europe. There is enough biase towards English clubs from the ruling UEFA Elite so I do like to see "Tommy for you the war is over" clubs sticking it to Johnny Foreigner. All this about lording it over your neighbours is exactly what we would do if we won it. It doesn't mean I'm supporting the Chav's its because they are from England and for all their so called artistry and ellegance on the continent there's nothing like a bit of sticking it up em. Mind you if it was the Spuds then I'd be singing "Deuchtland Deuchtland uber alles"