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1. dexter

   Jun 02, 2012, 11:30 #23241

   What a bunch of trolls. Football is not all about trophies. some teams have never even won one. We cant compete financially with city and chelsea, no one can. Not even the likes of united or milan can. Dont believe the 5 grand rubbish that comes from cashleys mouth. Before contract negotiations had even started he was seen meeting with peter kenyon (then chelsea managing director). He just used any excuse to get out. Remember that he complained that after the last game at highbury the fans didnt sing his name, which was because he had been seen meeting with chelsea. As i said any excuse. He knows he sold out, we know he sold out and so do the rest of the country as no one likes him. World class defender yes but not a loyal bone in his body.

2. Moscow Gooner

   Jun 02, 2012, 8:47 #23235

   SharkeySuresGhost, the reason people turn up to watch Tranmere, S****horpe etc etc is that they believe that there will be better times around the corner: promotion, a good cup run etc. With Arsenal now we seemed to be locked into an endless cycle of 3rd/4th finishes. And the alternative to that seems to be that we slip out of the ECL group and finish 5th or 6th. Utd were able to maintain a challenge through the full season for the league without the billion pounds thrown at Chelsea or Man City. Swansea and Norwich were able to get to comfortable mid season positions on a fraction of Arsenal s income. Birmingham and Portsmouth have won trophies in a period where we haven t. Forget comparisons with Chelsea and City: we re under performing in terms of the tradition of the club, in terms of the potential revenue we could generate, in terms of the fan base we have, in terms of the quality of the playing staff - even now.

3. Gunner6288

   Jun 02, 2012, 1:31 #23232

   I disagree. It is not sufficient just to win trophies. Some people care about how trophies are won (ie without ****loads of cash splurged by oil magnates). Some people care about the atmosphere at a club. There is more to football than just winning. Things like the support for Abidal and Muamba should have shown you that.

4. Unbeaten 03/04

   Jun 02, 2012, 0:10 #23229

   Respect to your article so true and very accurate!

5. Joe S.

   Jun 01, 2012, 11:43 #23198

   A justly deserved rap on the knuckles RJ, " skim money " is libellous without any strong evidence to back it up. However with the people in charge, self sastainability means putting in as little as possible for a maximum dividend at the end of the day.

6. Wombledin

   May 31, 2012, 22:02 #23184

   Good article but all rather obvious (except for missing the obvious point that traditional top 4 rivals Chelsea and Liverpool were noticeably weaker in the premiership this season). What would have made this article really interesting would be comparisons with the points difference between 1st and where we've finished the last 7 seasons, to see how big the gap is with analysis on our level of comparative competitiveness. Also liked to have seen statistics and analysis showing how our defence is perennially our weak spot and getting worse (alluded to in the article). Its not necessarily winning trophies but the desire to be really competing hard for them again, being right up there in the mix, which we havn't been for a long time or only spasmodically. Not long ago we won doubles and were the invincibles yet now we are perennial bridesmaids, also rans, no longer taken very seriously. There's a feeling amongst the fanbase that petro-dollars is not the only reason for that, the stadium debt isn't the only reason, that the Manager and Board could and should have done better. Whatever the case, the time for excuses has clearly run out.

7. nugs

   May 31, 2012, 20:43 #23183

   Alex song gets runner up in .coms player of the year!! So according to some of our fans he was better then kos, arteta and rvp! Says it all about our club right now, ****ing clueless from sections of our support right up to the wankers who run the club. And we wonder why our better players leave!

8. Chunda - Harrow

   May 31, 2012, 17:48 #23182

   George Graham had it right - players in club blazers and ties - looking the part..Now its all tracksuits and music blaring out of headphones..Players have it all now - too much money for starters...Long gone are the days when loyalty to the club was ****ount..

9. RJ

   May 31, 2012, 14:52 #23181

   Joe S - Explain to me how the "Board skim money for their own game". They only get their directors fees in cash, I do not think there is any financial impropriety (they are not stealing) and the cash on the balance sheet really does them no good - it is far better invested in the "business" or as we fans would call it - the team.

10. Joe S.

    May 31, 2012, 2:17 #23176

    ppp, our gripe is not about wanting success at all cost.It is about mismanagement such as letting great player leave and hanging on to second raters, it is about poor tactical decisions on the field and it is also about a board who skim momey for their own gain while flogging a cheap product at the expense of the fans.

11. Mike

    May 31, 2012, 1:51 #23175

    SF - have you seen Hazard play yet. This guy reckons Gervinho is the best player he has ever played with -pretty short CV to be paying the price they are for him

12. SF

    May 30, 2012, 22:08 #23169

    You are so correct, no matter how loyal you are to a club, just as how I am loyal to arsenal, you must not allow yourself to be partial. We (Arsenal)need competence in our defense set up, we have conceded too many goals. I believe if RVP remains, considering that we now have podolski, then we only need a visionary,technically sound & attacking midfielder, along with, as I said above, a competent defense unit..I love our style of play, and that's the main reason why am an arsenal fan..Too bad we missed out on signing hazard.

13. ppp

    May 30, 2012, 18:37 #23164

    While i get frustrated with Modern Arsenal for any number of reasons i have to offer my heartfelt opinion that the article by Hampshire Gooner "The whole point of football is to win trophies" is the most soulless, clueless, pathetic piece of trash I have ever read. If you really do support Cole and Nasri above the club and think Chelsea and Man City thoroghly deserve their success for spending more than everyone else then you are completely lost - and even tho you might not think it - you will always be a total and utter loser (and a few other things thrown in for good measure!) So the supporters of every other club in the world except the few that regularly win trophies are idiots are they? They have no idea about football no matter how long or how passionately they've supported their teams? It's people like Hampshire Gooner that should be sentenced to watch their nearest geographical club (hopefully in the EvoStick premier) and give unstinting support every match no matter what the weather and what the scoreline. If they fail to do it then they should be banned from watching football altogether. Football is about turning up and standing by the team - not squealing like a spoiled child when you don't win a trophy. You have absolutely NO IDEA what football is about - you haven't lived and you haven't given a single piece of yourself to the game ever. You should seriously consider changing your allegiance to Chelsea or Man City as they are virtually garunteed to win another trophy or two before Arsenal. They have more money and as long as they and other clubs like them are allowed to use it to dominate then there is little chance of winning. Incredibly we all support a club that is amongst the few in the world with the chance of upsetting the money-cart once in a while. So we haven't done it for a few years? So what! We've competed - you can cry that we haven't all you want but you are wrong about that - the facts don't support you. Most clubs in the world win nothing, ever, in their entire history. Arsenal will probably win something again and probably sooner than you or me thinks they will - and it will be glorious - but it won't mean I love my club more than I do now when they win it. Man City and Chelsea have bought all of those trophies you listed with MASSIVE expenditure and until the rules change they will keep doing it. Expecting Arsenal to do the same is pathetic even by a glory hunting fair weather fans pathetic standards.

14. Ron

    May 30, 2012, 16:57 #23161

    I could be wrong but i reckon Cole isnt any different from the rump of players in the PL. Hes a bit dense, but i suppose with his bank balance he wont care too much about that.Great player. Ive never really been angry about him being a greedy git. As for Nasri, i never rated him that highly when he was at Arsenal. Just an OK player on a fair day in fine weather. He went for money as many do and wouldnt ever form part of a title winning side at Arsenal had he stayed in my view. As with what will occur at City, he d have been sold eventually anyway (maybe not by Wenger) as hes not true top quality (he has a goofy, geeky face that needs a slap too the little french bottler!!). We did well on that deal. He was worth about half of what those mugs paid.Well rid and never to be missed. Cole has been. Badly missed and replaced by hopeless lightweights whove been paid a fortune. Puts that £5000 in perspective!

15. The whole point of football is to win trophies ..if you are purely a glory hunter

    May 30, 2012, 13:53 #23151

    Soulless attitude. Clueless. Pathetic excuse for a football fan. Toks is spot on. Why do 90% of fans bother? We finished 3rd and people are kicking up a stink. Modern football fans stink. It used to be about people, bonds and kinship, as expressed in the far better article 'A lasting legacy'. Proper support conveyed there. Ofcourse we should demand high standards and not be treated like mugs - we are the Arsenal, but please, the overriding attitude here is one of a divine right to titles.

16. Man Citeh title winners; Chel$ea CL winners

    May 30, 2012, 13:17 #23146

    What, I wonder, could be the secret of their success?

17. Mark

    May 30, 2012, 12:28 #23140

    A good article , yes Ashley , Nasri + Fabregas no doubt were right to move on , they have won trophies. Looking back it is the medals you win , take a look at yourself , what have you won in your own sports , they count for a lot and if you get a payrise thrown in why not. If i was RVP i would want the same , up to Wenger and the americans to prove we can and buy some good players

18. Andreas

    May 30, 2012, 10:59 #23135

    In the case of Cole, when I see his name in premier league best eleven's, I view him as an Arsenal man. Much in the same way I viewed Merson when he was scoring against us for both Villa and 'Boro. When people who stayed at the club say Cole was harshly treated by the board, then you have to question the board's ambition. Just look at the way they have treated players since, and more importantly how they've treated the fans!!

19. Andrew Marston

    May 30, 2012, 10:26 #23134

    Have thought many times that not paying 5k was ridiculous. 250k extra a year for the best player in that position in the world and a fan of the club to boot. Infuriatingly negligent.

20. Mike

    May 30, 2012, 10:25 #23133

    Got to look at it like this - Nasri was an intergral part of a trophyless team (I did not say unsucessful) - obviously he did not have enough faith in himself to be good enough to guide that team to a trophy, within their substantial means, or he wanted more money playing second fiddle in a team that was being put together for the sole purpose of winning the EPL. Which type of player has more ambition?

21. Hamza Ali Baksh

    May 30, 2012, 10:15 #23132

    After leaving Arsenal, Vieira won 4 Scudettos and a few cups, including the FA Cup with ManCity. Thierry left and won 2 LaLigas, and everything else short of the Ashes and Wimdledon! Reyes won La Liga, the Portuguese league and a host of other cups. Flamini won a scudetto, Hleb won La Liga, a Spanish Cup and the CL, hell even Adebayor (Spanish Cup), Larsson (in THAT League Cup final) and Fran bloody Merida (UEFA Super Cup) have gone on to win things. Then there's the City bunch (Nasri, Clichy, Toure) who've all now gone and won the REALLY big prize (i.e. the league title). That's a long list of players who all saw success after leaving the Arsenal (even if some of them were sold off rather than actively looking elsewhere). The point: Arsenal are now perennial losers. Players must go somewhere else to find success. Oh, I'll wear my shirt every week, and still cling to my hope each game I watch, but deep down inside I know that we're not gonna win anything soon. What a sad state of affairs.

22. Andrew Cohen

    May 30, 2012, 8:30 #23131

    @Mandy. I think that there is a difference between Cole and Nasri, but you won't like the distinction. Cole left a very good side for more money. Nasri left for more money certainly, but he left a side going nowhere. I don't think that there is any shame in that and I don't feel betrayed by him. I also won't feel betrayed when Van Persie leaves for the same reason. What I do wish is that ex-players would make that plain in post transfer press conferences, and not in player speak. If we had some able sports journalists in this country, then we might get at the truth.

23. Gary

    May 30, 2012, 6:47 #23130

    Arsenal are not West Ham we are judged on winning trophies.That is what you strive for as a big club.Not settling for just finishing top 4 every season.Ashley Cole like him or not is a winner.We wouldnt give him another £5k a week yet we pay that crock Diaby £60k a week.Wengernomics

24. Gare Kekeke

    May 30, 2012, 0:51 #23128

    For a club like The Arsenal, it will be judged on trophies. For a club like Leyton Orient, that’s not the case. They and others like them will be judged whether they can move up the league pyramid and so forth. Personally, I’ve gone past the hating Ashley Cole thing. He’s only doing what’s right for his career and we would do the same ourselves depending on our professions. Cole did indeed get his £60k week in his last year with us, which was our last year at Highbury but how ironic now that we find ourselves in a situation where we have some average players at the club are earning the same amount only putting in half the effort he did and now we can’t offload them. Did the Cole contract situation, which was all too public for my liking made the club realise that’s what we have to do to retain our ‘top top players?’ Pay our players huge amounts? Possibly. Only Wenger and the board can answer that. Until Wenger & the board wise up we will continue to be football’s bridesmaids. And I’m not talking spending huge amounts to keep up with the likes of Chelsea & Man City because that will just be stupid. Whether we like it or not they aren’t going anywhere so it’s up to the top people at the club to change. I have my doubts but would have no problem in being proved wrong. Up The Arsenal!

25. ken

    May 30, 2012, 0:07 #23127

    Say what you want about Chelsea we won two trophies Arsenal came third in the pl. Fact. If your manager spends some money on defenders you will have a very good team next season. I like the way Arsenal play the game, To be fair every team needs some luck.

26. Andrew Cohen

    May 29, 2012, 23:18 #23126

    I could not agree with Melo more. The point of football is to enjoy it. The club was founded by friends in an armaments works who wanted to play the game. It rose to be professional and struggled until taken over by the Roman Abramovich of the day who ploughed huge money into the club, moved stadium and started taking everyone else's good players. This was the club that some of us started supporting. The business model was predicated on cheap entrance money and a decent wage for the players. I believe that only the recent board members have ever made money from the shares. The new business model is high wage, high ticket price, non existent club loyalty to the customer and players who have their agents and jewellers to feed. We are lucky that for the most part our players are pleasant young men rather than the effluent who play for other clubs. The footballing product is high speed, hard tackling and a tv spectacle. Those of us who grew up with the old business model, which we believe to have been superior, find the new system tedious and odious. New or old, the object of the exercise is to win. Even the suits know that to maintain market share we have to win. What we need is for one morning, a majority of the suits to wake up, emerge from the petri dish of agar jelly where they ingest nutrients and recuperate and realise that market share and their bonuses are not well served by a manager who is presiding over a declining team. Get rid of Mr Wenger and start a commitment to at least doing our best to try and win, and much of the fun will come back.

27. johnnyh

    May 29, 2012, 23:06 #23125

    losing ashley cole over an extra 5 grand a week was the worst decision made by the club in my living memory. the guy is quite simply the best left back in the world,end of story and for wenger not to recognise that speaks volumes about him. on the subject of winning trophies,we will never win another trophy with wenger in charge. the man has no idea how to create a balanced team that can attack and defend and in this modern era the ability to go to away grounds and have the tactical know how to park the bus when required is vital.winning sides are built on sound defensive units in front of a top quality international keeper.he wouldnt recognise a quality goalkeeper if one punched him in the face. too often under wenger we are found to be hopelessly naive and the buck stops with the manager. get ready for more of the same next season with this idiot in charge guys. WENGER OUT NOW.

28. Theo Jensen

    May 29, 2012, 22:44 #23124

    The kamikaze spending clubs haven't won a single trophy in recent years- they've all been bought. We're playing by nice guy rules and they ruthlessly go out and buy whoever they like. It wouldn't matter as much if we motivated the players we do have and got the most out of them like with the comback phase of the season, but it doesn't happen. That's our best bet- it's the reason Spurs and Everton punch above their weight. For a guaranteed return to the top of the European elite we'd need to spend the money that United, City Chelsea do- I don't see that happening though. Interesting that Chelsea are after a guy with an £80m buy out clause, they'll probably have a makeweight swapped player but along with Hazard on a deal which could apparently reach £78m potentially (BBC sport) you have to wonder how the FFP regulations are viewed by the sugar daddies.

29. Mandy dodd

    May 29, 2012, 22:31 #23123

    Bill , if wenger really has brainwashed fans into thinking fourth is a trophy...guess he came up trumps this year then. The spuds finished fourth, wonder if they think that is a trophy?

30. Mandy Dodd

    May 29, 2012, 21:52 #23122

    Interesting, this admiration of a player who took the easy choice. An odious example of the modern player, shooting air rifles at yts kids? A sort of joey Barton without the temper. A good player but a bad example. Our players went to Chelsea and city and won things, guess that is what a billon investment buys, as it would in any sport. We cannot compete with that, now even utd cannot. Some naturally pick the sides they think will win, seem to remember a few stories about the British establishment taking the wrong side in the 1930s, the strong pick their side and fight for it. Nasri and cole are hated because they are mercenaries. Ok that is their right. Think what you may of wenger, but he is hanging on their in the Cl places against the odds, think whatever you will about financial fair play, but if arsenal are still there when it comes in, city and Chelsea will not be able to bleat that Ffp will cost them relegation or whatever, arsenal will be the elephant in the room, they will give platini justification that a big club can survive, and that is why the likes of city will do all they can to destroy us. Some of these players are just pawns, do not glorify them as more than that. Nasri will very soon be surplus to requirements, like ade and probably clichy, they may even end up classed as dead wood

31. CT Gooner

    May 29, 2012, 21:49 #23121

    @ Tony Evans, totally agree. It reay irks me having to hear the "we can't compete with their money" excuses. Wenger decides who to pay and how much, so perhaps he could try a smaller squad of better players?? But all this is mute, as we don't seem capable of signing our key targets.

32. Gooner S

    May 29, 2012, 21:37 #23120

    "The whole point of football is to win trophies". Every fan of every club wants their team to win a trophy. This much is true. I'm no different. But if the whole point of football is to win trophies most fans of most teams would give up....because all but a few teams actually win trophies and most teams don't have a prayer of winning a trophy. We're lucky enough to be supporting Arsenal. We have more chance of winning a trophy than most. I think sometimes some of our fanbase forget that. I watch Arsenal because I want to see them win games. If we're lucky, as supporters, we might have a team that wins more games than not and that just might result in a trophy. Ashley Cole left ages ago I don't see the relevance to your point. He left for money....end of. Move on. Same goes for Nasri. You make some good points along the way....yes, the defence neeeds improving and to invest more in the squad it seems we will have to shift some of the "deadwood" as you put it. Couldn't agree more. I hope we do that. But if any of you are expecting, or even feel, it's realistic for Arsenal to be competing financially with the likes of City or Chelsea for the squad reinforcements you need to lower your expectations. It isn't going to happen.We are going to have to see which way City and Chelsea jump and then see who's left. Get over it and deal with it. It wont be forever. That's the reality with most of the top quality players that are in demand presently. They wont be moving anywhere until they know that the likes of Chelsea or City don't want them. As to the discussion on 3rd place or win a trophy. The simple fact it's foremost about money. You get more rewards by finishing 2nd or 3rd than winning the FA Cup or the Carling Cup. I wish it wasn't so but that's the way it is folks. Get over it. Those new signings we would like would be unlikely to come to Arsenal without the cash the Champions league generates for us or the prospect of Champions league football.

33. Toks

    May 29, 2012, 21:35 #23119

    This is typical of Arsenal fans; always looking for a reason to moan. "The whole point of football is to win trophies...". Try telling that to fans of over 80% of the clubs in the Football League and learn something of what real support is.

34. Sean the London-Irish Gooner, Cork, Ireland.

    May 29, 2012, 21:08 #23118

    WTF is a picture of a celebrating Cashley doing in a so-called Arsenalfanzine. Get a grip.

35. cj

    May 29, 2012, 20:55 #23117

    I don't think Wenger has ever recovered from Maureen poaching Cashley. I don't think he even really wanted him but it was all about screwing with Wenger's mind. After that the previous unstoppable Weng started to look vulnerable and weak. Also losing David Dein meant the board were only interested in money. The pursuit of glory for the club went with him

36. lee afc

    May 29, 2012, 20:52 #23116

    ok. fine comments.. but why not take it back over 70 years and see who is heads above?

37. Brian G

    May 29, 2012, 20:39 #23115

    What an article well done, took the words out of my mouth. It's interesting what is happening at our club Arsenal, we seem to ignore a lot of major problems and cover them by boasting about 3rd place. I sometimes think it would have been better for us to finish 5th so something can really be done, but here we go another season struggling defensively. RVP has a big decision to make:(

38. Harold

    May 29, 2012, 20:01 #23114

    Just accept that we are where we are. With no chance of winning the Premier League or Champions League thanks to Wenger's blinkered philosophies and false economies, we might as well put all our efforts into winning the Carling Cup and the FA Cup for the next couple of years. Then, when the nutty professor retires maybe, just maybe, the board will appoint an ambitious manager ready to drive the team and club forward.

39. Rob

    May 29, 2012, 19:29 #23113

    Ouch !!!!! Man states truth ! And it hurts ! But it is still the truth. Well said !!

40. Andy Sunderland

    May 29, 2012, 19:00 #23112

    Good article and very hard hitting anyway this is Arsenal season 12/13 lots of injuries weakened teams put on in League cup and FA cup we'll get out the group stages of champions league but lose to the first decent team we play and we'll battle again for top four with Mr Wenger telling the media about our mental strength . Are you happy with that ? Then pay your money and accept it because this is the modern day Arsenal . I've got pictures on my stair wall of Charlie George scoring the classic winner against Liverpool in the 1971 FA cup final but sadly champions league means more these days sad but true .

41. celine dion

    May 29, 2012, 18:47 #23111

    'Arsenal have always done things the Arsenal way...' Whats that then, sticking the price of membership up 73% in the space of 2 years and having the players prance about in purple away shirts because they sell better.

42. Frankie

    May 29, 2012, 18:44 #23110

    The first season in 8 years we finish above Chelsea and all Wenger can say is they are a cup team.That tells you all you need to know about bitter Wenger.Chelsea knocked out Barcelona a team who knocked us out in the two previous years.Chelsea scored 2 goals with 10 men in the Camp Nou we couldnt even have one shot on goal.Remember Wenger hiding behind the excuse of RVP getting sent off.Well that was blown out of the water by Chelsea this year.When i look at Cole and see that fat lump Santos at LB i cringe.We could give Cole £5k a week more yet pay Diaby £60k a week.Self substaining my arse

43. Jock Gooner

    May 29, 2012, 18:42 #23109

    Melo, are you for real mate? Have read some pish on this site before but you take the biscuit. Arsenal are a club...an organisation so of course they will be around longer than Ashley...who is a person and mortal. It's pithy attitudes like yours that result in the apathy of the board going unchallenged. Get a grip of yourself.

44. Big Andy

    May 29, 2012, 17:23 #23108

    "The whole point of football is to win trophies." That's the sub-heading of your article. The problem is that right now at Arsenal he whole point of football is actually making money. Arsene "fourth is a trophy" Wenger and our American owner both appear to have lost the plot. We are going nowhere with them.

45. fozzy's mate

    May 29, 2012, 17:22 #23107

    Agree with Danny - as anyone on here knows my feeling confirmed by figures including Hampshires stats above tell me one thing. For most fans or maybe just the ones I know that have been going since 70s and 80s trophies are what matters. But for those on the board cash is king, with this seasons result of maximum revenue for player sales while scraping into 3rd or 4th means they have achieved their aims and will continue to do so without winning another trophy. In his one and only article DDT declared his love for the man from Alsace not because he wins trophies but because he extracts value.

46. divingrooney

    May 29, 2012, 16:42 #23106

    A new depth by onlinegooner. Money talks. If you believe that Arsenal self sustaining model is wrong, then support Man City or Chelsea. Arsenal is a way of life, live with what you earn. Any idiot can buy titles with the amount of money spent by Chavs and Mancity. Hell, world poverty can be eliminated with this kind of a largesse.

47. JJ

    May 29, 2012, 16:40 #23105

    Let me conclude for you - without Arsenal or Arsene Wenger these people would be nothing!

48. Bill

    May 29, 2012, 16:39 #23104

    Trophies ie the EPL and The CL mean you're the best.To me Barcelona are the best team in the world.Who knocked them out of the CL?Chelsea.Finishing 3rd and 4th for 7 years in a row makes you a 3rd or 4th place team.How can Arsenal fans really be happy with that.It is all about trophies.It means you are a winner.Arsenal are the Andy Murray of football get in the top 4 but never win.Wenger has brainwashed some deluded Gooners into thinking 4th is a trophy.How sad is that?

49. Tony Porter

    May 29, 2012, 16:21 #23103

    "Drogba did not do very much in the game" -except score the goals that won it: Mr Wenger's famous comment after a Chelsea victory over us should still haunt him. Chelsea's victory was like our 1994 win over Parma and this article is right to emphasise teamwork, defensive organisation and a striker who strikes. RvP can win us trophies but only if the team backs him up.

50. caleb

    May 29, 2012, 16:02 #23102

    Brilliant article hit the nail on the head. I firmly believe that Nasri would have stayed if we showed more ambition. Wenger has become the new Dario Gradi. Good manager but it's turned out the George Graham's back four were the drive. Bring back David Dein and get rid of that twat Hillwood.

51. Dorset Gooner

    May 29, 2012, 15:55 #23101

    Having completed the survey a few weeks ago, I must admit that I opted for 3rd over the FA Cup final & CL semi. I want us to be challenging every year for the league & cups. However, as we cant defend like the chavs we'd probably lost both games and not qualified for the CL next year. As we need RVP to extend this contract, and bring in several top players, being in the CL will make this easier! We all know who the deadwood player's are and we need to move these guys on asap. What is worrying me is the story's that I'm reading about us looking for cheaper alternatives to M'villa & the defender from Ajax because we're trying to save money! If I was RVP and I read these stories I don't think I'd be rushing to sign a new contract. If we lose RVP who's going to score the goals next session? This is a massive summer and will show the fans how ambitious the club is going forwards

52. Roman

    May 29, 2012, 15:48 #23100

    Wrong the whole point of football is to entertain fans who pay money to watch their team play. You just need to watch Spainsh football to realise that winning in not enough, it is not uncommon for Spanish teams to be booed for playing boring football even if they are winning. I remember Sam Allerdyce once saying he would win if he had Real Madrids squad and Cesc then followed up in an interview by saying he might win but his team would be booed off the park and the fans would want him sacked. There is no doubt Cole has won a good number or trophies but this is artificial success as Chelsea would not have got close to these trophies without losing almost £800m in the process, they where almost bust when RA bought them playing in front of 26k people now they are talking about a 60k stadium funny how fickle fans are, where did the extra 40k fans come from?

53. Bull****

    May 29, 2012, 15:33 #23099

    Yeah

54. Ron

    May 29, 2012, 15:28 #23098

    On the Chelsea thing, they had some luck, but got their just desserts. No team ever won anything without dollops of luck. Look at us when we ve wo trophies. That 49 game run was riven with games we won and we couldnt believe we d actually won them. Any Cup win calls for the luck of the draw and the run of the ball. The difference is usually that the teams with the better players are more adept at making their own luck and making amends when things dont quite go their way by using their nous. Arsenal dont have those kind of playerts anymore and havent had for some years. They wont get them either, as they wont/cant pay. Like or lump it, Arsenal are in the 2nd tier bracket now. They ll bet the cash laden teams when they have an off day or we just get lucky. We re paying for the 'scraps' that the wealthy Clubs dont really want. In short, we re Tottenham, Liverpool and the Toon but with shinier, better quality packaging. Arsenal chose to blow it all on a Stadium that gives them just 10000 more souls in it than Highbury could have offered them with the right development. The likes of Chelsea bought players instead. Ive said it before, when push comes to shove, Chelsea arent that much different to Arsenal. they just had different priorities and methods. Its an open question whether that stadium purchase proves to have been a big white elephant. Football (for me) is now a sick patient and ive dropped out of it to settle my own quandary over how i feel about what Arsenal and the game have become, as the truth is that im still forming my own views.The only certainty is that what i see of Arsenal, i dont like. Theyre certainly not the Club my Dad took me too in the mid to late 60s! We had substance, a heart and a conscience then if nothing else. 2006 changed all that. PS Cant stand that stadium. Away games at 'real' venues are far more earthy and enjoyable plus not so populated by 'newby type Arsenal fan', Islington sandal wearing Guardian reader types.

55. lance peters

    May 29, 2012, 15:24 #23097

    what can we as fans do to turn things around ? wenger and the board take us for granted. they have made the fans to believe champions league qualification is a trophy. we also use that in our armery when we debate with the spuds. honestly this has become humiliating. i dont care what arsene has done for the club. we cannot go on talking about what we have achieved. we are fast becoming a liverpool. please my fellow fans we need to take action. follow our captain do not make commitments to the club until they sign quality players. do not renew your season ticket or attend matches until they fix the problem. the board are smiling with their financial situation. they do not care about the fans. it is time we show them that they are nothing without us. lets stand together to make for happier times.

56. Saheed chelsea 07030527701

    May 29, 2012, 15:23 #23096

    A right article from a painful heart. Arsenal fans sorry o!!! Find solution to ur problem o!!!

57. Dan h

    May 29, 2012, 15:07 #23095

    The difference is the league tells the full story of a season you generally end up where you deserve even with injuries,luck,refereeing decisions factored in.That point i agree 100%.Cups you do need luck they did get lucky in the CL you do need it at times to win cup competitions the last trophy we won back in 2005 we got it against Utd.We have over the last years decided to play weakened teams in the domestic cups so no suprise we have had a trophy drought the CL & PL we look miles off winning at present.The team are given a top 4 target every year anything else is a bonus it is a mantra from the board & AW done with minimum investment low risk transfers in fees but hamstrung by inflated wages when they don't work out.I have said in a previous article people forget we ACTUALLY gave Cole his wage increase & a contract extension of 1 year as a comprimise by looking to save £250k on the original deal after it broke down!Instead of signing him to a new 4 year deal it actually cost US as we were back to the same situation the year after & part exchanged him with Gallas.I am not Coles biggest fan by a long stretch but the club still don't seem to learn these lessons.We may not be able to compete with certain other clubs but look at recent transfer targets we have missed out on by small valuation differences Alonso,Cahill & GK experience in Schwarzer.The ed also may well have been correct on Vertonghen.The only movement i am being told is we are looking to move a few out before we add still there is a long summer ahead!

58. Chris

    May 29, 2012, 14:56 #23094

    I think you might just need to grow up a bit. I love how we have been awful for seven years but Newcastle and Spurs have been great for the past year or two. People still have this image we are a big enough club, in terms of money to send, to win the league. Another point to make is how you go about things in life, one can easily win dishonestly, and with no class. Or you can do the best you can and come close, with what you deserve. Man City and Chelsea have not worked for their success, so it is empty. I'd much prefer to come third because fans have given the club money to reach that level, than some gangster or a tyrant win the league for us.

59. AugustusCaesar

    May 29, 2012, 14:54 #23093

    And to say Chelsea didn't get lucky in the Champions League is the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard. Did you even watch any of their matches? Bayern missed a penalty in extra time!! They were also utterly outplayed by Benfica at home in the second leg of the quarter final - something which seems to have totally bypassed most people in amongst the other luck they ahd against Barca, Napoli and Bayern Munich.

60. SharkeySuresGhost

    May 29, 2012, 14:44 #23092

    Its not good defending that allows upwards of twenty five attempts on your goal. If you allow the opposition that many chances and still win, then you are as lucky as it gets. It really is that simple. If the whole point of football is to win trophies, then why are fans stil turning up at grounds like the Reebok or the JJB, even more so at clubs like Tranmere, or S****horpe. End of season 2005 I was embarrassed, end of 2006 I was very proud. Two finals, two very different games and results. If you're only in it for the trophies and glory, then I'm happy for you, but don't try and convince me that I should feel the same. Best night ever at the Ems was the beating of Barca, but there was no trophy for that. Ergo, it means nothing to you..??

61. AugustusCaesar

    May 29, 2012, 14:42 #23091

    We've won more trophies than Chelsea and Man City put together (ok, i haven't checked that but it must be close) and our time will come again. Fu*k off and support someone else if changing your allegiances is such a good idea.

62. London-Irish Gooner, Cork, Ireland.

    May 29, 2012, 14:23 #23090

    WTF is a picture of Cashley doing on a socalled Gooner website?

63. Joe S.

    May 29, 2012, 14:21 #23089

    At the time of writing I don't exactly see the class players falling over themselves to join our illustriuos club. It's a shame. Somewhere along the line the word is out that Arsenal under this regime are going nowhere. Whether it's Wegner, the bean counters upstairs or the lack of ambition we only seem to be attractive to players who have been overlooked by the serious contenders and are desperate for one final shot at the limelight.

64. a gunner

    May 29, 2012, 14:18 #23088

    nothings gonna change...unless you show some intent...Podolski ws just the start - if it is the end...then at best we will retain our place in the top 4 next season

65. Stroud Green Boy

    May 29, 2012, 14:18 #23087

    Wenger's already given you his response "Diaby will be back next season". It will be another battle for 3rd or 4th at the most. That's what the club and squad are geared around, that's why Koscielny was going around showing 3 fingers at the end of the WBA match. For everyone at the club that was a hugely successful season - except RVP, it seems.

66. johnnyhawleylovinggooner

    May 29, 2012, 14:16 #23086

    yes but these two clubs (city and chelsea) are only winners because someone give them £1 billion each , they have been accused of unsettling other players at clubs and offer so much money the player would be mad to turn it down. that is not Arsenals fault these 6 prizes have in effect been bought. Arsenals stand with Mr Cole was the agent looking for money for something he ,the club felt was not entitled to. they stood up to the agent and maybe lost out in the long run,but they were right to make the stand against the agent.

67. Any Old Iron

    May 29, 2012, 14:15 #23085

    Spot on!

68. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 29, 2012, 14:14 #23084

    Our trophy cabinet must be straining under the weight of all those 3rd and 4th place trophies your right we're not genuine title contenders and haven't been contenders of any kind for some time and unless a massive rethink and change of policy occurs that's the way it's going to remain.Yes the whole point is to win trophies and thats why the players you mention jumped ship they knew they weren't going to do it any time soon with arsenal and RVP will probably be next. Cesc is catching cashley he has just won his fourth i think it is already. As for RVP i really don't think it's about money i may be wrong but i think it's more about ambition and if he does jump ship like the rest that about tells us all we need to know.

69. Michael Adah,Nigeria

    May 29, 2012, 14:07 #23083

    It really hot me wen our key players leaves us everi season,Arsenal fc has been subjected to notin now in england;i wil be glad if de board nd co could jst change dat wenger philosophy of buyin unexperience kid to compete for trophy.now for RVP to stay wenger must bring in atleast 4 world class players.

70. Mick Appleton

    May 29, 2012, 14:05 #23082

    We would have won the final against Barca with just a little touch of the luck Chelsea had in the semi & final. Only someone with no football knowledge at all would think that Chelsea's victory was solely down to defensive solidity. As Gary Neville said on the night, it was about more than football it was fate. With regard to Ashley Cole he left for money, do you not remember he nearly drove off the road when he saw our wage offer of £55k a week if my memory serves me correctly. I think the medals he has won are a bi-product of his leaving due to excessive wage demands. He is the best left back around & I don't begrudge him his trophies I just don't like greedy bas**rds like him.

71. AFC

    May 29, 2012, 13:58 #23081

    Granted we havent won anything for 7 seasons but to claim Ashley Cole made an educated decision to leave for trophies it ridiculous!His last game in an Arsenal shirt was in the champions league final and he was apart of a team that was winning trophies on a regualar basis, to suggest all these mercenaries leave for anything other than money makes me laugh. Imagine if all those players that have left showed the sort of loyalty shown at clubs like utd then we would of won alot more in recent years.

72. GoonerRon

    May 29, 2012, 13:57 #23080

    You can't argue with the trophies that Cole and Nasri have won since they left. What is debatable is if they had stayed would have they have won trophies with us. Could having Cole in our team in his prime from 2007 to 2012 have improved us enough to win more points, get over the line in a Carling Cup Final? Very possibly yes. Just for the record for those who say Gazidis is a penner-pincher, it was David Dein who reneged on that particular deal. As for Nasri, he can crow all he wants about winning a trophy at Citeh, but it annoys the hell out of me when he claims his noble mission to win trophies was not about money, yet his pay packet doubled/trebled as he went. Would he have gone to Citeh on less money? I doubt it very much. As for us taking third over Chelsea's two semi-finals, I think I said I would take third at that time (hindsight view after Chelsea won both trophies is all too easy), not because I didn't have ambition to win anything, but I thought the balance of probability to keep RVP and attract the likes of Podolski would be higher with guaranteed CL football next season.

73. keysersoze

    May 29, 2012, 13:55 #23079

    Interesting that you have to take examples of Ashley Cole, John Terry and Samir Nasri to make your point.

74. I agree but

    May 29, 2012, 13:55 #23078

    The luck is down to the other teams missing lots of chances. They didn't defend bravely against Bayern, Bayern just missed an incredible amount of chances including a penalty. This is luck. This is out of their hands, therefore they are lucky the other team finished horrendously,especially Gomez who is normally clinical. But yeah, as a group, us as fans need to realise they made the right choice for their careers. Look at where we're at now. About to lose van Persie and we're going downhill, slowly but surely. We used to be 1st and 2nd consistently, now it's 3rd and 4th, next it'll be 5th and 6th etc. As we drop further down, we lose more talent, we can't replace it because no one wants to join such a terrible club. This leads to our stadium being too big for us to sustain while Wenger still thinks he's the big God of the world and even after our stadium is paid off, invests in youth. I don't care that they spend money, they actually spend it well, it's not like they're giving it to bring Hitler back to life. We as a club are in disarray. I don't care about Liverpool, I care about us, and where we are is going nowhere fast.

75. sam,aka sun ciro,

    May 29, 2012, 13:53 #23077

    hay, Gay am dai hand fan of thee GUNNERS. I like to say if rvp leaves the club let him join city, (swap deal 4 ZDEKO) prof.wenger sighs de jong.Demsey Holet morroc star,yannes belda odewingi,exp players.and one C.H,

76. Melo

    May 29, 2012, 13:47 #23076

    "The whole point of football is to win trophies" ---------- I'm sorry but this is entirely bull****. 100%, pure, unadulterated bull****. I can understand the appeal of trophies. They're big and shiny and you can lord them over your rivals in a petty showing of one-upmanship that borders on vulgarity. But to claim they are the be all and end all of football is just stupid. Not everyone gets a boner every time they catch a glimpse of the Premier League trophy. I'd very much like it if Arsenal won a cup. It'd be nice and it would shut up a few of the more odious critics the team has suffered over the last 7 years. Arsenal have always done things the Arsenal way. It's what has sustained the club for a long time now. We have a lovely new stadium and little in the way of debt (although I haven't done the appropriate research to back up this claim I feel it's a safe assumption) which is not something to sneeze it. Arsenal will be around a hell of a lot longer than Ashley Cole so let the trophies fall where they may. The whole point of football is to enjoy it.

77. Mark from Ashtead

    May 29, 2012, 13:46 #23075

    Totally agree. I wonder if we've reached a defining moment in the "new" Arsenal era in as much as we are led to believe that Robin VP has challenged the club to match his ambition and pretty much ignored the money side. We can say what we want about loyalty/blah, but AC is a great player, and has been at the top of the tree for many years. Beyond that he is - and always has been - a warrior and God knows we've had too few of them in the club over the last few years. If I had my way we'd bottle AC's zest and commitment and inject it into the new breed at the club. I happily ignore all of the "Cashley" stuff as it gets us nowhere (and AC has once again had the last laugh) good post

78. Mark

    May 29, 2012, 13:37 #23074

    Chelsea were lucky - just look at the stats - not just in the final. I'd be happy if we had that luck. Would I be proud to spend £1 billion on a team and still have that luck - certainly not but still happy all the same. What do peple like you expect Arsenal to do? Perhaps we could spend £20 million on a player but would that help us to overtake teams that spend pretty much that on most of their players? We are competing in a Mini Cooper against a Ferrari and we are almost keeping up. I think that's quite an achievment when there are a few porsches lagging behind.

79. Wenger hires RVP Mum to handle transfers

    May 29, 2012, 13:29 #23073

    Chelsea will be stronger in the EPL next year than last. City / Utd same. we will hv to be stronger. Wenger knows this but will he act......?

80. Chinedu

    May 29, 2012, 13:28 #23072

    Can't agree with you more.

81. Priestos

    May 29, 2012, 13:27 #23071

    Stop fighting it, this is Arsenal for at least another 3 years... only thing that can stop that is regulation on spend (with teeth) or the collapse of the world economy

82. jack

    May 29, 2012, 13:27 #23070

    the reason i preferred to be in 3rd (and still do) rather than two semi finals and 4th or lower is that if it were arsenal in those two semi finals rather than chelsea we still wouldn't of won anything

83. Neil C

    May 29, 2012, 13:23 #23069

    A salient point mostly overlooked. We let a world class defender who had been with us since he was 9 years old go for the sake of 5 lousy grand a week. Put simply if the money was forthcoming I think he would have stayed and been playing for us still. It is understandable some fans giving him abuse every time he comes to our place with the Chavs but the people controlling the money at our club are as much to blame as he is for allowing that situation to occur. When you consider the quality of some of the players who have been earning 60 grand a week at our place for years it beggars belief that they were happy to let him go but were determined to hang on to them by paying them the same money they thought was too much for the services of Ashley Cole. I get upset as much as the next gooner when I see him in a Chav shirt but my outstanding memory of him will always be standing on the Clock End in the dying minutes of a Champions league game when everyone else's legs had gone running the entire length of the pitch to score with a diving header to keep us in the competition. That among other things is what Ashley Cole has done for this football club. The money people meanwhile.......

84. ScotchEggsRule

    May 29, 2012, 13:15 #23068

    No, Nasri had no point what so ever and you're an absolute mug for trying to big his point up. If he wanted trophies he would of signed for Utd, the team thats pretty much won everything for the last 20 years, instead City offered more money, otherwise any player would of chosen utd over them, idiot. The usual pessimistic bull**** from the most miserable site on the web. It isn't called the On-line Moaner for no reason.

85. CQ (Irish Chelsea)

    May 29, 2012, 13:06 #23067

    Wow a brilliantly honest article,never thought id see a fan of another club write such an objective piece.Congrats,for what its worth think your club is going about things in the right manner and short term pain will result in longterm gain.p.s. how can you not be happy that our CL Win knocks spuds out of CL

86. Gerry

    May 29, 2012, 13:00 #23066

    What you don't understand is that winning is not the be all and end all. There is not a football fan in the world who thinks Chelsea is a better team than Barcelona. I live in London-and would travel to Barcelona rather than watch Chelsea. Would I rather see Chelsea than Arsenal in London? Not a chance. Spurs are a better bet.

87. Sebastian

    May 29, 2012, 12:56 #23065

    Why are we talking about Ashley Cole? That was ages ago. Forget him.

88. Begeegs

    May 29, 2012, 12:54 #23064

    That is 4 4th Place trophies and 3 3rd Place trophies that I see along with the Balance Sheet Champions for the past 7 years - What is the problem???!! ;-)

89. Joe

    May 29, 2012, 12:47 #23063

    Was enjoying and agreeing with this until you mentioned John Terry

90. IanEssexGooner

    May 29, 2012, 12:46 #23062

    Not brainwashed by the clubs crap, just acutely aware of how much we need the champions league cash to attract anyone vaguely decent till we can renegotiate the low paying commercial deals.

91. Carlos

    May 29, 2012, 12:44 #23061

    Wow! Tell it how it is, too many blind faith fans out there!! What a shame our beloved club has become!! We used to win trophies, more often that Chelsea, City, etc. Now we settle for being higher in the league than Tottenham! Sad!

92. Tony Evans

    May 29, 2012, 12:43 #23060

    We all have to accept that players do not (in general) feel the same way as we fans do about the club they turn out for. For them it is just a job and if they are not happy, much like we would do in our own careers, they will jump ship. If I were Nasri or Cole I would have done the same as they did, especially Nasri, as by then it was patently obvious that Arsenal were going nowhere fast. Nasri could see just as well as we could the shambles that is our defence, the deadwood players crippling the club financially off the pitch and blighting it for far too many years on it. He could also see a manager that appeared oblivious to it all. These are the root causes of our problems and not the difficulty in matching the spending of Citeh and the like (although I will admit it does not help) that the gullible use as an excuse to defend Wenger.

93. Danny

    May 29, 2012, 12:42 #23059

    The deadwood you speaking about is not the players. it is wenger and the americains. We have a coach who is making money for the board and himself and is not motivated to win They are milking the FANS on past glory and we are like sheep and just go to the stadium to crap average football. I personally want VP to leave( however i except him to stay) just to show the AKB idiots, Wenger will never re-invest

94. RJ

    May 29, 2012, 12:42 #23058

    Hampshire – nice read. I would much rather that it was Arsenal 6 – Cashley 0, but it isn’t. He made for him the right choice, but personally, if I played for the club I love (and Cashley clearly didn’t – or doesn’t have the same view as me) I would have stayed and tried to help make them competitive – no matter what money on offer elsewhere – but that is the view of a naive fan without the serpent toungue of agents in my ear/rear. However, I don’t understand the continued booing of Cashley – all it seems to do is raise his game when we do it. Excellent footballer, central to his club’s success, not necessarily the greatest of human beings – but he has never claimed to be anything else. He deserves his success because of what he has contributed to that team – and I am sad that he did not contribute it to us. Cashley is a true Champion. Na$ri – nowhere near the talent of Cashley – only had half a good season with us, and has been quiet for City – his medal is as a bit part player – he will take pride in it, and enjoy the cash he makes every week, but the rest of us can look at it and say “well done mate, you made the best of your talent, have got paid well – but you are not central to your club – do you really deserve that medal? You only got it because you played the required number of games – you yourself are not a Champion”. Unlike Cashley. Overall, I am glad I am a Gooner and not a Spud or a Chav. I will never change, no matter what success eludes us or misfortune afflicts us - or who owns us, or how we are run. I will always support my team (within the limits of the occasional harangue when they get it wrong). We go into next season with a chance to win four trophies – at this point, we can continue to dream that by this time next year it will be Arsenal 4 – Cashley 6. Almost certainly won’t happen, but I will be keeping that dream for a little while.

95. danalovAFCXI

    May 29, 2012, 12:37 #23057

    the truth sucks sometimes. good article.

96. Warren

    May 29, 2012, 12:35 #23056

    totall agree with this.