A Club of Two Halves

Arsenal’s divided fan base



A Club of Two Halves

Wenger – Too much disrespect towards him


(Ed’s note – This piece was submitted on the afternoon of Wednesday last week, hence the references to the event with Ivan Gazidis later that day)

One of the big events of the Arsenal calendar is eagerly anticipated as I write. The Ivan Gazidis Q&A sees the CEO step into the Lion’s Den and face 300 very inquisitive, and some very angry, Gooners. I will be there, but frankly I never expect too much from sessions where the questions are submitted ten days in advance, simply because the PR machine spins into action and ensures that Ivan the Terrible, as many Gooners believe he should be called, is able to nuance his answers as deftly as possible.

This will not prevent papers like the Star (the paper with the hotline to our Chairman, Lord preserve us) and the rest of the tabloids spinning one way, and the rest of the press trying to analyse exactly what he said. His words will be scrutinised in detail like the utterances of a new head of state in China for the slightest indication of what he might be thinking.

But what is the state of the Gooner nation, from which Gazidis will face a hopefully representative contingent? Frankly, I wish I could tell you. I’ve supported Arsenal for 54 years, and I can never remember a more divided fan-base. It’s inevitable with so many Arsenal blogs that there will and should be disagreements in a healthy way, just as a group of Gooners in the Tollington or wherever might argue before a game. But, honestly, some of the stuff I’ve read (and, like most Gooners, I’m addicted to the blogs) worries the hell out of me.

A couple of weeks ago, I read the most unbelievable two-part rambling blog on Untold Arsenal, where a lady (American I think) dissected a Steve Howard article in the Sun spinning a conspiracy theory that would do the X-Files proud. Never has so much respect been paid to Steve Howard. I think the upshot was that there was a deliberate conspiracy to injure Arsenal players to make them spend money in the transfer window! I would not have expected anybody to dignify it with a response, but it prompted a lot of wild support and very little criticism (except from me). My final comment was that I didn’t know there were so many Arsenal–supporting ‘nutters’ out there! Not Hemingway-esque, but a reaction to a blog that disturbed me because it tapped into a mob of “Arsène is God” followers.

At the other end of the scale, I couldn’t believe a recent piece in Le Grove, not because it wasn’t well-written and well-argued, which it was. In fact, it was a good, challenging blog at the other end of the scale to UA, but it stimulated a series of fanatical Wenger-haters spewing such malign and unpleasant cries of anguish about our inability to spend that some of the initial points were lost as the group replying started scrapping with each other like hyenas fighting over a carcass. And that is what some of them would like to do with Wenger, Gazidis, Kroenke and PHW. Sir Chips escaped explicit criticism, but he would no doubt be hanged by the baying mob as the Board were made to pay publicly for their parsimony. Maybe the statue of Tony Adams is big enough to build a scaffold on?

It was unbelievable stuff, and alluded to blogs like A Cultured Left Foot, which I regard very highly as a balanced and articulate view, along with others like Goonerholic, East Lower and View from the North Bank. When I read what they write, even if I don’t agree with it, I don’t feel the need to distance myself from the people replying. I recognise a love of the club, a respect for the club, and a mature acknowledgement that things in a competitive industry like football, especially now it is so skewed financially, never always run smoothly.

But can you reconcile these strongly held points of view and, given the disparity in sentiment, is there any explanation for it?

The glib answer is “yes, win a trophy, preferably a big one” and of course this would help enormously to heal the rift. Many writers in the Gooner have referred to the long gaps between periods of success in the club’s history. They occurred before the Champions League (with its largesse) for nearly but not quite as long as the time when clubs first came into being and when the FA Cup was regarded as more than a trinket by fans and managers alike. For long-time Gooners, this period, studded as it is with really major change at the club, is nothing out of the ordinary. I hear people say that this is the worst side in Arsenal’s history. This is patently untrue. Can they not remember the days of Terry Mancini, Jim Magill and Eddie McGoldrick to name but three? The name of Gus Caesar still brings friends of mine out in a cold sweat!

The problem is that the game now is inextricably linked with money and, sadly, the richer the club, the more successful they have been. Abramovich’s era at Stamford Bridge is like a bad soap opera, but it is studded with trophies. Yes, we finish above Spurs every season, but they can blow a ten-point lead in a heartbeat, and, if you’re fighting over the minor places, does this really matter?

Someone asked me if anything hadn’t changed at Arsenal since I supported them and the only thing I can think of is that I have never known a time when the Chairman didn’t have a double-barrelled name! Sir Bracewell-Smith, followed by the two Hill-Woods. I have banged on for years about our current Chairman. He is a PR disaster and, to take last year’s AGM as an example, an underwhelming public speaker. He might point to the record of financial and playing achievement during his tenure, but one suspects his input into success is peripheral at best. He gives the board the veneer of sophistication behind which an American-style marketing operation is emerging, and is often the fall-guy for Kroenke, the absentee landlord with the dubious franchise record.

In fact, that very term, “franchise”, is at the heart of the problem. Try telling the person who supported Arsenal in the fifties and sixties, or the person who travels all over the world supporting them, that Arsenal is a franchise! It’s not; it is at the core of most Arsenal fans’ existence and, unless Kroenke and co appreciate this, they will never be accepted at Arsenal. No person who goes twice a year (if business interests permit) can ever convince fans he has a real affinity with the club. I have long felt that Usmanov would be a more convincing owner, but let’s hold on a second. The clamour for Usmanov is understandable.

Football changed when Abramovich swept into Stamford Bridge. Fans now plead for rich men effectively to buy them a team that can win trophies. As one of the most glamorous teams in Europe, we have attracted rich shareholders, but I can’t believe a man who has made so much money in business as Usmanov will be content just to throw money at Arsenal simply to win trophies and won’t want it organised like a proper business. And, if Financial Fair Play did come in, how ironic would it be that Arsenal, the epitome of self-sustainability, might be one of the first teams to be affected in a shower of Russian roubles. I doubt this would be an acceptable scenario for Wenger either.

Oh yes, Wenger! What about him? The man vilified in so many comments on the blogs. What did Arsène Wenger ever do for us? According to one commentator (who showed his ignorance of chronology as much as of Arsenal itself), all of the great superstars of the last fifteen years were purchased on the say-so of Damien Comolli. How convenient it is to rewrite history when it suits your argument!

The length of Wenger’s tenure is a very important debating point. If he is omnipotent, as seems the case at Arsenal, he takes the blame for seven trophy-less years, the débacle that was last close season, and the failure to win the Champions League. But, if you throw this at him, at least allow him to throw back two doubles, an unbeaten season, the building of the new stadium, and fifteen successive seasons of qualifying for the Champions League. It’s a record that deserves respect, as does the man himself. He genuinely remained loyal to Arsenal when he could have had his pick of any managerial job in the world. Frankly, the phone would ring off the hook if he resigned today.

He is very far from perfect. I find his touchline and after-match behaviour embarrassing on an increasing number of occasions, and I suspect he doesn’t take advice easily. The loss of David Dein was crucial in damaging the club, and the coaching staff could do with some new blood. I’d hate Wenger to depart with animosity from Arsenal. He deserves far better than that. He is an obstinate S.O.B, but so are many great leaders. With the right support, I think he might be able to win again, although, until FFP comes in, that gets tougher each year. It may be the time for him to depart but, if he does, I hope it is in the right way. He has achieved too much to be kicked out unceremoniously and, frankly, while Kroenke is there, it won’t happen.

We need to accept that life changes and that football changes very quickly. Supporting Arsenal is a life-long commitment and transcends great periods, and periods of misery. I can’t imagine it, but I’d still pitch up at home matches if we were in the Ryman South, and most Gooners I know are the same. We’re noisy, opinionated and concerned, but we bleed red and white and always will, whoever owns “the franchise”.


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55
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  1. DavChris

    Jun 15, 2012, 15:11 #23547

    If AW goes, the following mudslinging is likely: He will blame the board for not giving him enough money, and the board will say they gave him the money but he didn't spend it. Can anyone say where the truth is?

  2. goonercolesyboy

    Jun 15, 2012, 13:23 #23543

    tpm, United signed Phil Jones, Ashley Young and De gea and got Wellback back from Sunderland and spent over 50 million...forgot that did you?

  3. tpm

    Jun 14, 2012, 20:57 #23531

    gooner s, pray tell waht was wrong with the last gooner ewditorial, please dispute any of the facts it points out with valid arguments....i will be waitng for a long time as you simply cant.

  4. Gooner S

    Jun 13, 2012, 23:22 #23517

    The majority of Arsenal fans do not read blogs. Of the two blogs you call out, I read both Le Grove and Untold. They are both coming from very different places. Untold has a nicer way about them - the mob culture and poor behaviour is not tolerated there. Some of the posts on Le Grove are well thought through and they do have a number of good points to make. With regards to this post; It was far more worthy of being an editorial than the recent poor effort on The Gooner. A very well balanced post.

  5. tpm

    Jun 13, 2012, 21:37 #23515

    mike, where have i stated that kagawa and powell are big names? (id say kagawa is a fine player from his appearances against us, better than anything we have in creative midfield anyway) i stated that to say that because united are not linked to big names means that they will not challenge is simplistic and silly. i will say they are one of the weaker united sides of recent times, but they will always compete under red nose. what big names did they sign last summer, yet still came within a minute of retaining the league against moneybags city. ridiculous to suggest they will not compete.

  6. Mike

    Jun 13, 2012, 13:53 #23502

    @TPM - no its just me - did not know that Powell and Kagawa were big names though - Man Utd had two bites at Europe failed miserably, early exit of FA cup, let go of the league - they are regressing which is not like them - the two notable names they got last year were Young and Wellbeck, young players with no CV's - imo they doing much the same as Arsenal now - buying potential at a cheaper price instead of what they did in the past (Ferdinand,Ronaldo, Berbatov, van Nistelroy,Owen) The point is, I dont think they have the funds anymore either to compete with Man City or Chelsea.....doos

  7. AugustusCaesar

    Jun 13, 2012, 13:05 #23500

    I'm still a Wenger fan. I guess this is all about patience. The notion that we have ceased to meaningfully challenge for trophies is overstated in my opinion and I genuinely believe the good times will return under Wenger. I'd rather be patient than run the risk of the team getting worse under a new manager. It's all hypothetical but there is no guarantee a new manager would improve us. A new manager would suddenly not have a bottomless pit of funds to go and buy the cream of the crop in Europe and pay them the wages we're seeing at Manchester City. I think the notion that there are too many 'yes men' in the coaching staff is a valid one and the players' egos are massaged too readily and that they are mollycoddled. I think there are signs that this is changing with Wenger more publically critical now than he has been previously. I'd like to see Wenger challenged tactically and I sincerely hope Steve Bould can be a progressive influence on the team.

  8. Brigham

    Jun 13, 2012, 11:44 #23496

    I am in my fifties and can remember the good old days and I can also recall the bad old days. I want my club to compete, I want them to move forward (After all, that was the slogan on our shirts last season!), I want our club to win things, but I realize we have no divine right to that last bit, but at least flamming well try. We (Arsenal) are being left behind and that gap will only increase further if those who have the power to change it do not something very soon. We got lucky to finish 3rd last season, no doubt about that at all and if anyone thinks otherwise, you are more deluded than Gazidis. Just how many more years are we going to suffer this self-sustainable model claptrap, watching the DDT and the rest of the fat useless board members get richer? FFP will not change a thing at all, the big clubs such as Barca, Real Madrid etc will get around it easily and we will carry on regardless. falling into obscurity.

  9. Tigerz67

    Jun 13, 2012, 11:43 #23495

    Sure I am all for improving the club. Apart from maybe Mourinho and Gus Hiddink, I can't think of any manager that could or would replace Wenger in this era of football sugar daddies.

  10. Fishpie

    Jun 13, 2012, 10:55 #23494

    Very good article Peter. But as a hard core fan over many decades, I think the key difference between the current trophyless period and those of the past is that the club/board isn't prepared to fire the manager. Previous managers, who after 3 or 4 years of failure, managers like George Swindon or Billy Wright, or even managers who weren't able to sustain initial success like Bertie Mee, Terry Neil or Don Howe, were eventually fired or "resigned". Fans would have been frustrated during these periods too but would know that the club was bigger than the manager and change would would eventually take place. What has caused the degree of fan division we experience now is that many of us feel stuck, trapped with perpetual failure. The thing is, nothing changes. Wenger goes on. Our defensive frailties go on. We go on failing to win anything. The prospect that the club would not settle for continuing failure was the unspoken reality that kept us together in the past. The club would, by and large, give each manager a fair period of time to build and correct stuff and if improvement wasn't forth coming, the manager was replaced. The frustration is deeper this time around because we appear to be within striking distance of a trophy challenge and, again and again, for the same repeating unresolved reasons, come up short. And nobody at the club is able or prepared to do anything about it. The man who is at fault for not resolving our frailties over 7 years now (defensive frailties that do not need mega millions to resolve by the way) is in effect in charge of the whole club. And not surprisingly he isn't going to fire himself. So some fans, understandably, feel deeply frustrated and can see no hope of change.

  11. win AFC

    Jun 13, 2012, 0:08 #23489

    @ Charlie Charlie. So you think it's ok to win f**k all so you don't want us to be like Man city with the money sorry to say it but we have to compete. you would like to see us win sod all would you? The last 7 years must of been great for you then oh well one born every day.

  12. Taiwoolatoye

    Jun 12, 2012, 22:53 #23487

    Nice Article! I don't and will never agree that wenger is Omnipotent or irreplaceable as many of us belief, yes there are very few and Infact rear managers that can achieve Le prof's feat considering the factors he had to work with and coming out with consistency in terms of top four finish for over a decade, let us assume Arsene quit or leaves Arsenal by any reason and we are face with the question of replacing him and working with the same factors Wenger have at hand and owing to the club's standard and expectations from us(fan) and much more the board. Is it Pep that quit his job 'coz of confrontations from Mourinho's side, or Mourinho that cannot work with half baked players and without a good scouting and eye to spot future potentials, name the manager and we all knows there flop. Having said this and having established how vital,important and crucial Le prof is to our beloved club I also have to concede that our manager is not perfect and is bound to make mistake and don't forget you and "I" do in our own professions too. For the love of the game let's give em our much needed support and keep the hope high if it doesn't alter our normal way of life i.e. Health, finance e.t.c. For me Arsenal has and will always be a great team to watch. Gunnerz all the way.

  13. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 12, 2012, 22:38 #23486

    Jesus Christ its interesting you think some of the posts on here are the equivalent of graffiti on a toilet door i don't but your entitled to your opinion.What is for sure are the inept displays from a lot of our over paid players over the last five or six seasons and the inept decisions of OGL either tactically or sticking with dross that are never going to come good how do you have an informed discussion about that or maybe we should take a leaf out of Ivan's book and put that much spin on it and make out that we have won trophies for the last eight years and haven't a problem in the world.The displays and decisions i've mentioned would be more suited to something you flush down a toilet.

  14. Peter Le Beau

    Jun 12, 2012, 22:37 #23485

    I think there can be no greater justification of what I have written in this article than the range in comments from the various respondents. As I think the Online Gooner is a broad and reasonably fair church my conclusions from this feedback is that Wenger is seriously disliked by more fans than I estimated and the loyalists are dwindling.In fact the AKB is a dwindling species devoured by the much more aggressive fans who are simply sick of the failure to contend for honours. I sense a general willingness to wave goodbye to RVP preferably if he goes abroad IF all the fee is reinvested and a lot more besides. I also think ( and I know it's a very unpopular comment) that FFP is likely to bite much harder than many supporters reckon. If this happens I still doubt this would vindicate Gazidis and Wenger in the eyes of the supporter. My abiding sense is that Wenger has been here too long for most supporters' liking and they crave a more exciting and less cautious leader. I just doubt there are many better alternatives that will come and would counsel people not to waste their and everybody else's time with people who won't come like Mourinho or Guardiola or those with no track record of trophies like Moyes, Martinez or Pardew. The possibilities are Klopp,Bielsa or Deschamps but the best qualified is Ancelotti.Would he come to a club with the financial handbrake on? I doubt it but what is clear is that I believe Wenger has gone beyond the point where enough Arsenal fans believe in him to give him the luxury of another trophy less season

  15. Stevesam

    Jun 12, 2012, 22:36 #23484

    Jesus Christ ; " Here I sit broken hearted paid a penny and only farted " Exactly how I feel about the Leadership at Our Club, so many promises but deliver so little!

  16. tpm

    Jun 12, 2012, 21:41 #23483

    charlie charlie, Yes, "The business of football has changed beyond recognition over the last 10 years and it's about time "fans" realised this"...we have realised this its a shame those in control of arsenal havent.Why have those in charge of the club not realised it and moved on with it and tried to keep pace??? you will be waiting a helluva long time for success if we stick with the current way of doing things. we will not win another meaningful trophy (CL or Prem) with the current mantra. Likewise, as ever, you quote the classic akb arguement that fans are spoilt for demanding trophies and should be patient. What rubbish! Its not about trophies. No club has a divine right to win trophies. The issue is with actually contending meaningfully for trophies, showing an improvement year on year, learning from past mistakes, addressing blatant weaknesses, making he most of your resources, not sticking to the same rigid tactics when they dont work, all things that the club have not addressed, and that myopic '4th place is good enough' akbs like you never address in your comment as you simply cant and instead just trot out the old 'trophy demand' line...ridiculous, and as has been said many times, fans who are happy with the lack of improvement or even lack of attempt to improve year on year, like you, are whats causing the current malaise as you wont hold the club to account.

  17. tpm

    Jun 12, 2012, 21:08 #23482

    is the mike spouting ridiculous childlike nonsense logic, (like united havent been linked to big names so will be rubbish next season)on here the 'great' mr francis??? it wouldnt surprise given the former editors massively rosetinted specs!!

  18. Gooner1711

    Jun 12, 2012, 20:54 #23481

    ApolloGooner = SPOT ON!!!!!!!

  19. Jesus Christ

    Jun 12, 2012, 16:37 #23480

    I enjoyed such a level headed peice from the author. Sometimes I wish this site would scrap the comments section because instead of informed discussion we just get idiots with pseudonyms merely carrying out the internet equivalent of writing grafitti on a toilet door.

  20. Mike

    Jun 12, 2012, 16:15 #23479

    Win AFC - the reason I say that Man Utd will also slip back is that for the first time since the EPL began they bottled it - they had one hand on the trophy with three games to go. That is unheard of. The key players in their squad are aging and they need several replacements to compete with City - like us they will be in the chasing pack.

  21. Nick

    Jun 12, 2012, 14:58 #23478

    Everybody keeps telling us to be patient and not expect immediate sucsess , but ive supported Arsenal for over 50 years i dont think ive got another 50 left to wait, id dearly love to see us win something again soon, before i shuffle off to the supporters valhalla, so please Mr Wenger and the board, stop talking about tomorrow and start planning for TODAY !!!!!!!

  22. Nick

    Jun 12, 2012, 14:46 #23477

    John Gee, who do you think is the better manager The Red Faced one Or Wenger ?, and who would we replace him with you ask , well it seems to me that nobody had ever heard of Wenger when he first came here, if he left through bad health or merely for pastures new, do you think Arsenal would cease to exist ? it is after all THE ARSENAL football club not Arsene Wenger FC, i used to love the man for what he did for us, but that love is slowly turning into hate, because of his intransigent ways, and his insulting behaviour towards the fan base, id give him one last season one last hurrah to see if hes still got what it takes to win , but if i hear the word "future" much more i may well go insane, someone should tell the man that tomorrow never comes !!!

  23. northbank123

    Jun 12, 2012, 14:14 #23476

    Well-written, fair and balanced. I'm frankly a bit sick of having to choose between being an "AKB" or "AMG" or whatever acronyms people want to throw about. Can I not just be a passionate fan of the club who tries to view the present in the context of his whole reign and the bigger picture? Or do I have to nail my colours to a mast that need not exist?

  24. Gooner1711

    Jun 12, 2012, 14:05 #23475

    It is well writtne and attempts to look at both sides, but how can anybody question some of the tactic, team selections, embarrasing players/wages and complete lack of apprecitaion of the support/tradition that has been served up in the past 5 years. RvP gone soon......the player drain continues whilst the deadwood remains.

  25. Charlie Charlie

    Jun 12, 2012, 13:16 #23474

    A good, well balanced article. Some fans recently have been acting like children who haven't yet learnt how to deal with losing a game. The business of football has changed beyond recognition over the last 10 years and it's about time "fans" realised this. Winning a trophy becomes harder each year without a sugar daddy owner. One answer might be Usmanov but I would rather win our way than Man City's even if I do have to wait a few years longer.

  26. fozzy's mate

    Jun 12, 2012, 12:31 #23473

    Pete - I like your piece but believe that the club has in the main brought the divide on themselves. For the last decade and massively more post Dein the club have pumped out pro Wenger propaganda and encouraged the thought that any one in the crowd daring to utter even a murmur of critcism be attacked by the masses. In the dug out he has been surrounded by yes men. At various AGMs and the like both your nemesis and mine - Hillwood and OGL in a polite way told any fans asking searching questions to basically go forth and multiply, and OGL repeated this in numerous press conference rants including the infamous "not worked half a day in football" rant. Many including very intelligent men believed the smoke, mirrors, propaganda and in some cases cynical lies. The most obvious being the various announcements a day or so after the closure of transfer windows re players out for the aeason, a few days or weeks after being told RVP/JACK/TV would be back shortly. I feel the crowd at the soul less bowl have been very patient with Wenger given the repetitive nature of mistakes made. His arrogance when dealing with the fans has increased the level of frustration. Basically it is time for a change and I agree he should be given a graceful exit. But you are also correct in saying that the only priority for the club is protecting Wenger who is their cash cow. With the money he spends nobody would do better I suspect, but we need to better use the funds at our disposal not leave them sitting in the bank for the eventual benefit of the DDT. The arrogant and complacent way the fans are and have been treated mirrors that of the club accross the board since 2004.

  27. RVP RIP

    Jun 12, 2012, 12:12 #23472

    Giroud is not being signed from montpelier to be on the subs bench. he will partner Podolski who can also play wide left when needed.

  28. BANK IT

    Jun 12, 2012, 11:22 #23471

    my friend is a sports journo for 1 of the newspapers. he said the industry is pretty certain RVP is leaving. not clear where but informal bids have been given verbally to arsenal and they are all pretty compelling. i think this is also why arsenal are about to buy another striker. oh well at least our debt goes down a bit more so we are VERY SUCCESFULL FINANCIALLY SPEAKING !

  29. Mick Appleton

    Jun 12, 2012, 11:12 #23470

    We were extremely lucky to have Thierry Henry but when his star started to fade, I wished him good luck & said goodbye. In my opinion he stayed a season too long & his tenure for some was tainted by his petulance in a fraught last season. As much as I love & appreciate what Arsene has done for us I cannot deny his star has faded & that the last 4 seasons have been painful to watch as the same mistakes are repeated time & again while the man himself cannot see it. I want him to succeed as I'm as desperate as anyone to see us win trophies but I cannot see it happening again with Arsene or the current financial restrictions at the club. I wish he would have been enticed away after the Invincible Season so our love for him would never have faded but that didn't happen so many fans love has turned to hate or distain for the man & his legacy. I want him to have one more season to try to recapture his former glories but if he doesn't happen he should leave with his head held high as I will always remember the glorious times he gave us not the bad.

  30. Matt

    Jun 12, 2012, 10:54 #23469

    Noisy? Emirates is the opposite of what I call noisy

  31. chris dee

    Jun 12, 2012, 10:07 #23468

    Good article. One problem,in the football world when you class yourself as a big club,which we do,then no trophies for seven years in not acceptable no matter how good a manager Arsene is. And it is unnecceptable that we have qualified for the Champions League for the last 15 years and have never won it.Praising the achievement of qualifying as if it is winning a trophy as Arsene does,makes us look like a small club,and until we win the bloody thing we will not be considered a big club. Watching Chelsea fluke their way through the semi final and final of the Champions League becoming the first London club to win it made me sick. What happened to that geezer who brought Arsene to the club and said he wanted to make Arsenal the 'biggest club in the biggest City in the world'?

  32. Brigham

    Jun 12, 2012, 8:16 #23467

    The truth of it is that Wenger has been left behind in many areas; tactically, transfers, scouting and keeping that winning mentality. He has grown more and more stubborn in his ways and like many of his agegroup, will not change what he thinks is correct when the plan has blatently gone array. I am very thankful for all has done for the club, particularly those early years, but IMHO he has lost his way now and he also seems to be frustrated in himself. The only trouble is, who would we replace him with? I really have no idea, but not Maureen oh, that would never happen though would it? I will always support The Arsenal, that is non negotiable.

  33. ApolloGooner

    Jun 12, 2012, 0:40 #23466

    Instead of people continuously highlighting fans disrespect for Wenger, maybe (just for a change) we should remind ourselves of Wenger's disrespect for fans. And ask why that alone doesnt justify the growing contempt for him amongst the Arsenal support. Wenger is patronising towards us, has been downright instulting when criticised. And worst of all he blatantly lies to us. Why should he be able to be like that but as soon as we show so-called lack of respect towards him it is deemed to be out of order? The individuals who work at the club, including Wenger, (and individuals is all they are - they are not THE CLUB) treat the fans appallingly at times. I think they get off very lightly because there seems to be this widespread belief that if you criticise you are not a real fan. The club exploits this kind of brainwashed nonsense. But fans need to remember that it is OUR club not Kroenke's, Hill-Woods or Wengers. We need to be MORE demanding and stop this meek and apathetic toeing the party line stuff. Being supportive and patient for the last 5 years has got us nowhere. The club want it all one way it seems. They ask us to back them and then they dont deliver. In so many areas they havent kept their side of the bargain. Arsenal football club RIP

  34. win AFC

    Jun 11, 2012, 23:43 #23465

    One for Mike Man utd may not buy big name players but sorry to say they will always compete with the likes of Man city and Chelsea.unlike Arsenal same old same old,Next season will be like this season no silverware, two new signings if we are lucky and the board and Wenger get richer.

  35. Arsene Apologist

    Jun 11, 2012, 23:11 #23464

    I stopped taking this article seriously when I read 'FFP' and the guff about how Arsene deserves all that credit for what he achieved all those years ago. LOL. Oh right, so can I do sod all in my job for 7 years and just point to the past then? Arsene has remained 'loyal'? You think any other major club would put up with 7 years of abject failure! Why do you talk about Chelski and Citeh, when Wenger could not even beat relegated Birmingham in a cup final!!! Wenger's 'oyalty' is easy when you earn £7 mil a season and have no pressure to deliver. If he left Arsenal tomorrow, Barca, Real, would not go anywhere near him. I would say they'd hire him as an accountant but I just realised he is useless at this also: £127 milllion wage bill for a team of overpaid garbage we cannot get rid of? Economic genius! Ha ha ha ha...

  36. Ken Dodd

    Jun 11, 2012, 22:31 #23463

    By jove,by jove....what a beautiful day to take Wenger (and John Gee) to the circus,laugh out loud at the CLOWNS and ask: ''So Arsene, is this where you scouted Squillaci and Djourou....!?''

  37. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Jun 11, 2012, 22:01 #23462

    Three cheers to John Gee with his ruthless vindication of our excellent and well educated manager. Call those who disagree with him clowns. I can think of worse names to call those who have a different point of view, entre nous. But modesty forbids. After a hemi semi demi tasse of cafe au lait and a quarter of a grapefruit for breakfast, I like to ponder on whether our manager can be canonised or at least beatified or made dictator for life perhaps. There is a marvellous room in the hospitality suite at the Stade du Arsene, where there is a huge curtain with the face of the manager picked out in black and gold. I have always to wonder why there is not a shrine to him there where serious worshippers of the manager such as John can have a few quiet contempletive moments of hero worship. Perhaps in time, those who think that the manager is a clown can be told how foolish they really are there and repent of their clownish ways, with their analysis and contrary opinions and their thinking for themselves.

  38. cj

    Jun 11, 2012, 20:15 #23461

    When David Dein was there I genuinely felt that the fans and the board were on the same wavelength. It now feels increasingly like we are fighting against each other. The communication from the club has to be mainly responsible for this. Filling so many positions at the club with non football people,from Edleman onwards,hasn't helped. . Many fans feel that they get more truth out of a politician than anyone at the club. We feel like customers to be exploited now, not long term,dedicated fans.

  39. Peter Wain

    Jun 11, 2012, 20:02 #23460

    WHislt noone can doubt that Arseme Wenger has beend a great manager for Arsenal this does not mean his exempt from criticism. Over the past seven years he has got the club into promising positions which with some investment could have yielded three or four trophies. He resisted buying a goal keeper when we needed one and a quality centre half. Last season he did not address the striking situation and he must have been surprised that RVP remained fit. He should have got the board to adress the contract situation of players like Nasri and Clichy so that the club is not forced to sell. Yes Wenger has been a good manager for Arsenal but how many fans have enjoyed the last seven years?

  40. Bard

    Jun 11, 2012, 19:07 #23459

    A bit of history always balances perspective. I have also supported Arsenal for 50+ years and seen good and bad times, but your article glosses over some critical concerns debated on this and other blogs. The frustration is not because Wenger has been a crap manager. He hasn't, he's been at times brilliant, lucky and visionary. BUT he's squandered opportunities for trophies by intransigence, meanness ( quibbling over small amounts in transfers ) and tactical naievity. He shows no signs of addressing these issues. Second its clear the club are slowly in decline on the field and with the financial constraints as they are if you drop out of the top group you're toast ( see Liverpool ). The blogs would be much less vitriolc if we could see a little bit of progress. Thirdly the lack of money is a red herring. We've spent shedloads on wages for substandard players and we've failed to identify and buy adequate goalkeepers, defenders/ DMs when its been blindingly obvious we've needed them. Fourthly the club has also started taking the fans for mugs, raising prices and not being honest with us.All these reasons and others are why some of the blogs are venomous. And if anyone really believes Ivan the Terribles bull about FFP being our saviour they need to lie down in a darkened room.

  41. e9o14

    Jun 11, 2012, 18:58 #23458

    Great post. I agree with everything except that Arsene is hardly ever embarrassing. I've wanted him out since about 2000 and have gone through periods where I have disliked him. But you are right he has done so much for us if he leaves it shouldn't be under a cloud. I hope one day soon DD comes back and they form the dream team once again. We need to remain independent as FFP comes in. To be purchased by some billionaire now would be disastrous and foolish.

  42. Mike

    Jun 11, 2012, 16:41 #23457

    Great article - unfortunately franchise is probably a more apt description than club these days - Wenger is here for at least another year and is still a succesful manager no matter how you look at it. Whilst the model is self sustaining, a K250 000 per week salary can and won't be offered to RVP. The same applies to any other big name that Chelsea or Man city seek. Man utd will not be competing at the top of the league next year.(No big names have been linked with them and they need an overhaul). Instead they will be with us competing for 4th. I don't know why people have a problem in comprehending this

  43. Whinger_OUT_NOW

    Jun 11, 2012, 16:21 #23456

    No disrespect to you, sir, but anyone that thinks FFP will come on a white horse to vindicate Whinger and Gazidis is just as clueless as these two. You really think UEFA will dare dump the barcas, madrids, milans etc. out? Citeh has already shown how easy it is to scuttle any "laws". Roman will do the same. FFP is nothing but a smokescreen being used by Gazidis and Whinger to sell the future....again. These 2 are habitually in the business of selling the future, while the present remains mired in mediocrity. And tell me please, how will FFP prevent Whinger from signing trash like Diaby and Squilacci and giving them massive wages - a trait that has earned him en entire 11 full of dross.

  44. win AFC

    Jun 11, 2012, 16:02 #23455

    The sign of the times, fifty years ago football was a sport now it's money and business. Arsenal fans have a good right to be angry, At least Abramovich cares for the club he puts his money in to, For example if the manager don't perform then out the door it's that simple, what Wenger as done for us in the past is fantastic but like it or not money rules. The big clubs are not scared to spend. The Arsenal fans are seeing no big name players arriving at the club we have seen Chelsea win the cl. It should have been Arsenal's name on that trophy, but we have seen our local rivals win it. I dont care i want Arsenal to be very successful winning silverware that's what counts it also goes down on the history books.

  45. Ronster

    Jun 11, 2012, 15:38 #23454

    You ain't seen nothing yet....the Arse-ne apologists will continue to crawl out of the woodwork long after he's been carried out of The E******* in a coffin to the detriment of those managers that WILL follow him.

  46. Covoteapot

    Jun 11, 2012, 15:19 #23453

    I think Wenger has been blunted by the buying power of the big petro-dollar clubs. It's not the same footballing landscape that it was 10-15 years ago. He doesn't have the ability to pick out the gems that he used to as all clubs have a scouting networks that are as good or even better than Arsenal's. Arsenal quite simply cannot compete with the likes of Chelski and Man S*itty. We cannot offer players the same amount of money and therefore we have to shop in Fenwicks rather than Harrods. Wenger has made a rod off his own back though by producing teams that were the epitomy of how the game should be played. We were served some of the best football on this planet and at the centre of those teams was an iron core. Arsenal fans' expectations are way higher than the team and football that we see regularly now. How can Wenger produce these Barca-lite teams? When he knows the formula that worked and it wasn't what we are seeing now. He is belligerent, myopic, frustrating etc but he still has the ability to be a genius. All fans know that we need experience. We need winners. We need experience. This team lacks any of this. Everey season every fan knows we enter the arena of conflict a few players light of where we need to be. We do not go into any season with confidence as the players do not instill confidence. We don't expect to win when going 1-0 up as in days gone by. Most of the time the next goal is scored by the oppo rather than us kicking on and making it 2 or 3-0. It's great to see a born winner like Podolski sign for the Gunners but we need another 2-3 players like him. We need flair players but we also need grit and steel and that 'never say die' attitude from past teams. I look forward to next season. I can't wait to see Wilshere come back and take on the Fabregas role. But I think we must lower our expectations to save on the etrenal feeling of disappointment....

  47. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 11, 2012, 15:17 #23452

    A big event ? surely a non event like you quite rightly said an opportunity to put spin on things we already know and tell us nothing new.It is sad that so many gooners are divided and at logger heads even falling out with each other around the ground and in some cases inside.Your right peter everybody has an opinion on what has went wrong over the last seven or eight years and the decisions made from tactics to players from contracts to the length of them and decisions higher up in the board room.At the end of the day some person or persons are responsible for the situation we find our selves in especially on the pitch and have to take responsibility for that.Arsene is certainly an obstinate SOB and if the last three or four seasons are anything to go by it looks like he doesn't take advice at all.As for kroenke this man has no affinity towards our club whatsoever and probably never will have the only connection he'll have is that were one of his franchises.Maybe a big trophy or two would put everything right with the fans and the club but has arsene got it in him ? time will tell.

  48. lance peters

    Jun 11, 2012, 14:59 #23451

    you write a good article. but you cannot condem the anger fans feel and express on the other websites. people have their own way on dealing with their problems and the anger towards wenger is that of bleeding fans. arsenal are much better than being content with champions league football. we are capable of so much more. thats what is the most frustrating part. Wenger out Pep in

  49. CT Gooner

    Jun 11, 2012, 14:44 #23450

    Overall fair, but I get a feeling that you don't think our leader is responsible for the failings on the pitch over the last few years? That's wengers job, coach the players and ensure they know what they're supposed to do. His arrogance and failure to accept change I think are major failings. Now the conundrum, I don't want to see him go (due to all the positives you mention), but I don't think he can adapt his style which IMO the club (not franchise) sorely needs.

  50. Bob

    Jun 11, 2012, 14:43 #23449

    The majority of the article is cogently written, and as others have said, balanced. The section on Wenger is, alas, writeen with the rose-tinted spectacles of someone who confuses the past with the present. The first sentence of the final paragraph holds the key: "We need to accept that life changes and that football changes very quickly". Very true, Peter, but that's just what we have FAILED to do. We have carried on operating in the same way that served us well in the years before Abramovich rewrote the script, and having deluded ourselves for too long that 'Project Youth' could work in the current climate we are now deluding ourselves (as Kevin Witcher so eloquently argued recently) that FFP will ride to our rescue and the Clubs with all that nasty foreign investment will be cut down to size so that Arsene's ways will once again shine through. It's a nonsense. By all means admire and respect Wenger for what he achieved, but at the same time grasp that the man and his methods are no longer fit for purpose.

  51. GoonerDave

    Jun 11, 2012, 14:30 #23448

    Thank you sincerely for a well-written and balanced piece. We seem to have become fundamentalists - either AW is beyond reproach and infallible, or he is to blame for everything wrong with the club and any success we have is in spite of his presence. I want Arsene to remain in charge. I also would like our problems sorted out, and for AW to rectify his mistakes. To maximise our wage resources etc. Sadly, I and many, many other Gunners dont fit into either of the pigeon holes that the media appears to have generated. This leaves a lot of fans feeling disconnected from fellow Arsenal supporters; its a rotten split in our fanbase. Untold Arsenal, while interesting and informative, is too one-sided, as if nothing is our clubs fault, certainly not the managers fault...legrove on the other hand are in danger of becoming a laughing stock, with their daily attacks on the manager and even fellow fans, where personal insults are par for the course. In between those views is where I am, and I believe many others are too. So thank you again for producing a "middle ground" article.

  52. Ron

    Jun 11, 2012, 14:04 #23447

    Good stuff. I dont think the fans are as divided as you suggest though. Many at the games have a moan at Wenger and other things but hes not widely villified really. The real passionate fans have been dissapearing for quite some time now, same as at all Clubs to a greater or lesser extent.Whats left at Arsenal is a high proportion of interested parties who go to games but arent too swayed or concerned about things the real hard core fans are. Thats what the modern game has created and become.Its why many like me have 'hung up' the football supporting gloves. Its a sterile game now for sterile, shallow people who are content to pay too much cash for a questionable product and im sad to say that that Stadium we live in now is a bricks, mortar and glass testimony to it. The blogs display divisions that arent reflected on the ground and in the streets as i see it. Could be wrong. I often am! Well constructed article though.

  53. Graham Simons

    Jun 11, 2012, 14:01 #23446

    I was in Chicago last week and the guy at the front desk - recognised my English accent. He then asked which team I supported. He then told me that Arsene Wenger would have been sacked by any other club. This is from a guy from the US. I don't even get annoyed anymore. Every year I get the same rubbish from the club imploring me to renew my membership and I do but little, by little the passion and the belief dies and they only hope I seem to get is from offloading the rubbish rather than recruiting the bright new hopes.

  54. Mark at Ashtead

    Jun 11, 2012, 13:51 #23445

    Great post Peter; you've given voice to the sensible long term fan's viewpoint.

  55. John Gee

    Jun 11, 2012, 13:42 #23444

    So pleased to read a level headed comment on AW. Please go on repeating it until the clowns finally realise how fortunate we are to have him. I should be interested to learn of exactly who they (the clowns)would have replace him. The obvious names, Guardiola, Mourinho would want unlimited transfer funds in the unlikely event that they could be enticed, then come all the second raters. We are so lucky to have AW.