Spain save the best till last

Online Ed: International dominance continues



Spain save the best till last

Spain’s Barcelona contingent with the spoils of victory


In Euro 2000, Spain met France at the quarter final stage. The winners of that match eliminated Portugal in the semi final before triumphing in the final against Italy. So it was 12 years on, although this time, it was the Spanish that won the quarter final, justifying their status as pre-tournament favourites by lifting the trophy in Kiev yesterday evening.

Italy had played a marvelous semi-final to see off Germany, the team this observer thought would triumph against Spain, but Vincente Del Bosque’s team proved too wily, in spite of their relative youth. And if you consider that for a 25 year old like Cesc Fabregas, this is his fourth major finals tournament, you can see why experience is not an issue.

Spain had developed a bit of a reputation for nullifying games with their possession football, with a perceived lack of incisiveness making them a dull spectacle. There was some whistling early in the game from the stands when Spain kept the ball for periods of any length without moving forward. In fact, what they were doing – and have done for three tournaments now – is play result football. Sometimes, when the opposition opens up, things become more interesting. But until that occurs, the Spanish have developed the ability to control games through possession. It makes them very difficult to beat. If the opposition do not have the ball, then they can’t score. In their four knockout matches when winning the 2010 World Cup, the result was 1-0 every time.

In their semi-final, Portugal managed to get them on the back foot due to their fear of what Ronaldo and Nani could do to them. And it was a game that Portugal could have won, with Ronaldo spurning a glorious chance near the end of normal time. Ultimately, it took a penalty shoot-out to divide them. However, fortune has often played a part in victory. In 2008, Spain progressed thanks to spot-kicks against Italy in the quarter final.

The potential fatigue of playing extra time in their semi was outweighed by Italy playing their last four game a day later, only three days before the final. Additionally, Italy had played a 120 minute game of their own the weekend before to eliminate England. There seemed little doubt, as the final wore on, that Spain looked fresher. Having said that, looking at the possession stats towards the end of the game, for a long time, Italy enjoyed as much of the ball as Spain. Yet, much of this was in their own half. Service to their front men was limited, often restricted to long balls up to Balotelli, a tactic that had worked in the past, but not on this occasion.

Spain cut Italy apart with runs behind their defence from Fabregas and Alba respectively to produce the two first half goals. At the start of the second half, Italy had made two of their substitutions already. One assumes Cassano was simply exhausted, so there was little choice in either. They had a go for 15 minutes and Di Natale almost got them back into the game, but the replacement of Motta for Montelivio was the final throw of the dice, and when the substitute’s hamstring went almost immediately after he entered the fray, the game was up. The two late goals were no surprise, tired defenders picked apart by the fresh legs of Torres and Mata, but the scoreline harsh on Italy. They had been outplayed, but four goals did not reflect the difference between these two teams.

Spain will go to Brazil in two years’ time to defend the World Cup, but I would be very surprised if a South American side did not triumph there. Italy will have to rebuild without Pirlo, who was simply nullified in the final, often by the close attentions of Xavi. Germany will have to rethink because this very promising side often look unbeatable in the early stages of tournaments, only to fall when they meet either Spain or Italy. It’s becoming too much of a habit. Portugal will continue to rely on Ronaldo and come close but fall short. England need to work on their penalties, as that is the only way they will beat quality opposition in the knockout stages. France and Holland have to sort out their ego problems and get some harmony in the camp, so when the going isn’t so good, they can respond.

On the TV coverage front, in the build up to the game I was switching between BBC and ITV because Roy Keane has been the unquestioned star of this tournament. His scornful attitude towards proceedings in the studio punctures the self-importance that punditry has become. There is no doubt he is there under sufferance because no-one in their right mind is going to turn down the kind of sums ITV have doubtless offered to secure his services for doing so little. I’d wager good money his fee dwarfs those of his fellow pundits on the comfy cane chairs. I’d like to see him as the analyst during the actual commentaries, out of sheer fascination more than anything else. I have a feeling he’d tell it like it is, which would make for great entertainment. On that note, last night, I finally flipped, or more accurately switched. I began on BBC for the match itself, but Mark Lawrenson is just so unlistenable, I actually found Clive Tyldesley and Andy Townsend less annoying. And that takes some doing.

It’s been a fairly decent Euros tournament. They usually are these days due to the quality of the teams taking part. It lacks the variety of a World Cup but it’s still a football treat. Not sure how it will work with 24 teams in France 2016. And as for Platini’s idea of staging the finals in a number of different countries from 2020… er, no. I hope that one is voted down, but I suspect what the president suggests goes. Oh well. Ever heard the idea – if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it?

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63
comments

  1. Pekay

    Mar 08, 2013, 18:56 #33060

    What o lot of drivel . I will be surprised if we finish in the top 6. Maybe you could run us through your predictions on all the remaining games in the premier league.

  2. Wombledin

    Mar 06, 2013, 9:44 #32926

    This is how Spurs fans have been analysing their games for years, fantasizing. We become the spuds with red shirts. Its official.

  3. Anti-Wenger

    Mar 05, 2013, 17:32 #32916

    Player for Player, spurs are not that much better than us. aside Bale, they only have a better keeper(2 rather),Sandro in DM and a modern coach. Wenger has lost it and can no longer get the best out of his squad. His tactics(if any) is usually ridiculous. Even if he invests #200m this summer on players, he no longer has what it takes to win at this level.

  4. G Lati, London

    Mar 05, 2013, 17:00 #32913

    I too think 4th is slightly realistic but I also think it gets Wenger massively off the hook. And does he deserve that? Lets see what happens if we finish out of the top 4 though. That will be more interesting to me. Will Wenger go out and buy, or will the board be happy for him to sit back and count their huge cash hoard? I'm guessing one year "out" of the CL won’t hurt them in terms of the direct CL TV money as Wenger accounted for that by selling RVP upfront. But the peripheral cash implications of less gate receipts on CL night and sponsorship and other downstream effects will start to bite at some point and as we all know, attracting top talent will be harder. Selling RVP was the biggest mistake of Wenger's career so far. MASSIVE MISTAKE.

  5. Anti-Wenger

    Mar 05, 2013, 16:55 #32912

    for me, i think the players we have are decent but are ill coached and as such lack motivation to perform to their optimum. In my opinion, the following players under a better coach(like AVB,SAF,Moyes) still have a lot more to give; Giroud, Cazola, Poldi, Ramsey,Walcott,Vermalean,Sagna,Ox,. they may not be among the best around, but still they're playing well below their own abilities. But unfortunately we don't have a good coach anymore, so the teams comes out on the pitch almost confused.

  6. TH14

    Mar 05, 2013, 15:32 #32907

    Arsenal will probably lose to swansea, west brom, fulham and manu and scrape draws vs everton and norwich...how about that for some predictions...but on a serious note anyway who cares if we finish 2nd, 3rd or 20th...same dross every seaason..

  7. Arsene is a Fraudster

    Mar 05, 2013, 14:16 #32904

    Simon me old mucker, take it on the chin mate. Brush yourself down, move on because you had a bit of a mare with this article.

  8. Graham Simons

    Mar 05, 2013, 13:35 #32902

    This is quite possible the worst article I've ever read on this site. If Spurs draw their games and we win them - we could finish fourth - no, really?! Talk about stating the bleeding obvious.

  9. Gooner Fan

    Mar 05, 2013, 13:13 #32900

    So much for Arsenal being the 2nd best defensive team says a certain Wenger apologist.

  10. thatsimonrose

    Mar 05, 2013, 10:00 #32897

    Some hilarious comments! I do wonder for the health of some of you. I am not an AKB, I never have been. The problems with Wenger and the Board are common knowledge, I just tend to blog about trends and look for positives, I have no desire to be dragged down by the negatives. Anyone who follows me on Twitter knows that I am often critical of Wenger and anyone who knows me personally knows that I've picked out Wenger flaws since the 2000-2001 season and have done ever since, even through times of success! Seriously people, think of your blood pressure.

  11. Jason B

    Mar 04, 2013, 23:02 #32889

    In every game we have played against the top four this season (plus Bayern) we have given them a two goal start and lost the game.(Tottenham @ home the exception).Can't work out why this has happened time and time again.In the last month,Giroud and Walcott have scored precisely zero between them.(good job cazorla and poldolski have chipped in with a few)The midfield 3 has a tough enough job as it is without having to be the back four and forward line rolled into one.The back four has a serious communication problem between them (language problems?).Relying too much on the linesman to stick his flag up evey time the oppositon get anywhere near them.As for the front line,well they need to learn that as we only play one upfront,the other two must support the lone striker. LAST BUT NOT LEAST IS US,THE FANS.Need to get behind the team more at home.The silence in the stadium is deafening.

  12. Baldrick

    Mar 04, 2013, 23:01 #32888

    I think I see your cunning plan, My Lord - we go on a ten game unbeaten run,winning 6 and drawing 4. Meanwhile Spurs win 3, draw 3 and lose 4 of their last 10 games. Which means that we finish above them. A brilliant idea, My Lord. As clever as a fox with a First Class Degree in Cunning from the University of Sligo.

  13. GoonerDave

    Mar 04, 2013, 21:56 #32884

    Whats the bloody point of attempting to finish fourth,your as bad and deluded as Wenger.Ok,great we get fourth,then what? I,ll tell you what,more of the same b######t,ie "i,ll only get players in who will improve our squad","the quality of players are not good enough to play for Arsenal" blah de blah!!!!!I gather your happy to qualify for the champs league,struggle to get through the group stage then we get shown up for what we are against quality sides,crap.Do yourself a favour mate and get realistic,this is as bad squad of players i,ve seen at this club in all my 44 years of supporting Arsenal and it's all down to Wenger.As far as i,m concerned there's no way back for him.whatever magic he previously had has sadly gone,thanks for all the great times Arsene,but for me it's over.

  14. CanadaGooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 20:30 #32882

    Who cares? Spurs can have 4th place if they want it. It's not a trophy. Our season ended when we lost to Blackburn as far as I'm concerned. CL isn't something we're going to win anytime soon. So what's the point qualifying for it?

  15. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 20:21 #32880

    1975, I agree, knowing our manager and bunch of wasters it's hard to see three wins and a draw,it's more like these teams see three points.

  16. HowardL

    Mar 04, 2013, 20:04 #32878

    Sorry Simon, I usually enjoy your blogs and my AKB leanings lasted longer than many others on this website, but you only need to read what has been written by bedrock Gooners to see that our beloved Arsenal has been slowly destroyed by its own architect but until that is acknowledged and addressed the decline will continue. Yesterday was my tipping point and it's really sad.

  17. Paul the Gooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 18:54 #32875

    Simon the reason why we finished above Spurs last season was RVP.In case you hadnt noticed he is now carrying Utd to the title.We dont have an RVP but the Spuds have Bale.Take away Jack who is fit the wear the shirt?.Cazorla is a decent player but goes missing in the big games.As for an easy run in remember 2011 when we had an easy run in and went from 2nd to 4th in the last 3 games

  18. Ron

    Mar 04, 2013, 17:15 #32872

    Simon - Sadly, Arsenal need to finish up about 7th ideally. It will avoid the Europa Cup and give the Club a damn good rattling at the same time. Dont get me wrong, im not a Europa Cup critic. I still think its a decent tournament for those Clubs in it and lets face it, its at the proper euro level that Arsenal in truth have been at since 2006. If in it, i would go for it as its a trophy but i know what Wengers attitude will be and so do you ie scoffing and belittling it and hence causing the Club embarrassment as we lose to Sporting Club Outer Mognowkoskla or whoever!Disgraceful in other words.Being out of the CL would give Arsenal a break and end the suffering as theyve nil chance of winning it, wont ever recruit the type of players with a view to doing so and sell the players we do create occasionally who just might have made it more of a reality.Moreover, do Arsenal really WANT to win it? Of course not. theyre happy with their annual routing by the 1st real team they meet after scratching through the group by the skin of their teeth. Its very sad really but its football today sadly!

  19. chris dee

    Mar 04, 2013, 16:33 #32870

    There we have it,confirmed in this article.Look at the work gone into how it can be achieved by the writer. The board have won. They have convinced some people finishing 4th is success.

  20. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 16:27 #32869

    Simon, we don't look ill coached or ill prepared we are ill coached and ill prepared and we're also ill managed.And it's just as well we don't need brilliance because we haven't got it and not likely to get it,any we had we flogged for profit and it's coming back to bite us on the arse now.There are many words to describe yesterday alright. But you know what the saddest thing of all is ? It's the fact that the Height of our ambitions this season along with all the others was to finish above the spuds in third or fourth place just to qualify for a competition we're never going to win.Now that,that looks unlikely the Height of our ambition, thanks to our ill coached,prepared,and ill managed team is to hope the spuds drop points by drawing games, and that proves just as damaging as losing,and we can scrape wins which will enable us to catch them and crawl over the line into fourth and achieve our ambition yet again.You can look through grubby tunnels and rely on chinks of light all you like mate but if that's what this club of ours is all about god help us.

  21. 1975

    Mar 04, 2013, 16:23 #32867

    Simon Strictly focusing on what you are blogging about, I think we may find that we will have really tough games against Reading, Norwich, Wigan and QPR as they will all be fighting for their lives. I dont necessarily see 3 wins and a draw from those 4 games. They will all be looking at the fact that they all play us at a stage of the seasin where it will be Russian roulette time for them. They will all be looking to do better than each other against us to try and claw out some advantage. So I reckon it will be 1 win, 2 draws and 1 defeat. So I would suggest that we will only get 5 points from those 4 games. Remember last year? Wigan at our place. We were outclassed. Martinez is more of a Houdini act than Harry. I think you should also be looking at Chelsea's fixture list. I honestly think Spurs will kick on and finish strongly. We have more chances of finishing 4th below Tottenham but above Chelsea...............now let me get back into character like everyone else....who cares, how futile, Wenger is rubbish, its all his fault. One more point...in the last 2 seasons we have spent almost £50m in total on Giroud, Podolski, Gervinho, Ox and Park. Thats nearly £50m on a bunch of attacking players whose impact has been questionable. For that amount of money we could have bought two very good top class players. Oh well....its your money Mr Kroenke....ever wondered whether its being spent wisely?

  22. Angry & Frustrated

    Mar 04, 2013, 15:57 #32865

    So Simon you reckon this shower can go the next 10 games undefeated?! In case you didn't know, our current record in the Premiership is a defeat every one in four games!! In addition we have drawn more games than Spurs and hence it's more likely to be us who drop further points via this method!! But as others have already said, who cares? What's stopping you from just saying what's starring you in the face, that it's Wenger who is the number one problem at our club. Their are other issues with the board, but at the end of the day, all the footballing decisions (mostly bad ones these days) only lead to one door, and it has the name Wenger on it! Your never ending optimism is akin to the utterly deluded Wenger saying only last week, that he thinks Arsenal can finish runners up!!!

  23. James

    Mar 04, 2013, 15:41 #32864

    Deluded article from a deluded man.Get it into your head we are not good enough.Cant wait for your we can still beat Bayern article

  24. Mikey59

    Mar 04, 2013, 15:14 #32863

    Is there a table for the worst contributor on Online Gooner if so you are in the Man U position. Well said glenn, it's the constant lowering of expectation from our club and our own one eyed supporters without reference to our continual decline and the reasons behind it that p*s me off.

  25. Mike

    Mar 04, 2013, 14:50 #32862

    Funny no one has mentioned anything about the rumoured bid - 1.5 billion and then we can buy all the players we want and in essence buy the EPL fantastic...or maybe not

  26. Jumpers for Goalposts

    Mar 04, 2013, 14:28 #32860

    Christ Almighty Simon - you wrote all that and all you're focussing on is finishing ahead of Tottenham?? Arsenal went unbeaten and won the League nine years ago so we shouldn't be scrabbling around for 4th place. And even if we do finish 4th - so f**king what? All that will mean is Wenger telling us how great he is and yet more of the same mediocre dross that we've seen since 2006. Stuff the Champions League cos we're never gonna win it under this manager!!

  27. Adrian Wagenaar

    Mar 04, 2013, 14:15 #32858

    Simon - The board and manager don't mind finishing 5th, in case you have n't noticed its about football matches being staged at the Em*r*tes and charging fans for the pleasure watching a railway workers 11 from Rostok. AW & IG will tell the AKB's that the "Ropey League" is as prestigious as the CL, The AKB's will of course swallow this and flock in their thousands to watch football on a Thursday - and why not it beats the hell out of going to their self improvement classes! Problem is of course we will not finish fifth, Everton and Liverpool will overtake us and you know what until someone incharge of my dearly departed team starts to care a f*ck - neither will I!

  28. bunch

    Mar 04, 2013, 14:01 #32857

    Champions League? I think all things being equal it has to be better to be in it than not. But from this supporter's point of view it is incredibly marginal and I can understand those that want us to not get in there next season. I find it sickening that Wenger and his cultists trot out 16 years of qualification as some form of success. It hasn't led to any more trophies (you could argue it has led to less because how many times has Wenger prioritised the CL over the FA Cup: semi v Chelsea 2009 being a prime example), it hasn't helped us keep our best players, and frankly most of the games, ie our group games, are against opposition that rank lower in excitement level than Stoke, Wigan and Reading. And let's be honest, we haven't a realistic chance of winning it. Two semi finals in 16 years? Pretty poor. It's just more money for the club to stick with their grand a year they got off me and where does it go? So frankly, I'm not too fussed if we don't get CL football. Finishing above the Scum? Yes, I'd like that. Given our respective resources and spend it should be a given but AVB has rightly pointed out, we are on a downward spiral and it is all down to Wenger. Was anybody fooled by out 5-2 win against them earlier in the season? I wasn't.

  29. Green Hut

    Mar 04, 2013, 13:47 #32856

    Their name isn't spurs, it's tottenham. spurs is a nickname, a term of affection.

  30. glenn

    Mar 04, 2013, 13:21 #32852

    Hilariously deluded...who cares about the fixture run-in? Who cares if we finish 4th or even 3rd or 2nd? All possible, but so is 10th. The big issue here is the direction the club and the team is going in and that's obvious to even the most deluded 'fan.' What winds Arsenal supporters up is the consistent revisionism coming from the club which FINALLY is now not being swallowed by the masses. Wenger needs sacking several years ago and anyone who can't see that is in for a nasty shock in a couple of years...

  31. Ramgun

    Mar 04, 2013, 13:07 #32850

    You are right Simon. We are ill-coached and ill-prepared. Can you bring yourself to say who is to blame for that?

  32. Tony Evans

    Mar 04, 2013, 13:07 #32849

    Who the hell cares? In the current scheme of things where we finish in relation to Spurs is an irrelevance. For goodness sake, Simon, why don't you start focusing on the big issues facing our club - like a manager that has lost his way completely and a board that need shaking out of their profit motivated comfort zone.

  33. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 04, 2013, 13:05 #32848

    Simon, I applaud your optimism. But so what if we beat Spurz to the hallowed 4th place? It will only mean more of the same. Players leaving, with cheaper and inferior replacements. Perhaps you'd prefer that? We could play out the next 6/7 seasons just like the last 6/7 have been. Are we really going to go 10 games unbeaten with this shabby excuse of a team and its pathetic coaching methods? Come on.

  34. Red Member

    Mar 04, 2013, 12:29 #32841

    Simon, I agreed with you last season and we were both proved to be right. You are deluded if you think we can still finish above Spurs this season though. Even if Spurs suffer their usual implosion I am afraid that this Arsenal team does not have enough quality to put together a winning run of matches

  35. Joe S.

    Mar 04, 2013, 12:27 #32840

    So much about so little Simon. In the end who cares.

  36. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 04, 2012, 15:25 #23766

    GaryFootscrayAustralia couldnt agree more if they had all that they could have beards growing out of their a**e it was just an observation.

  37. Ron

    Jul 04, 2012, 15:23 #23765

    Angry and Tony capture the context of Wengers comments regarding Spains defence accurately. The fact of the matter at Arsenal is that Wenger is a typical French idealist. I worked there years ago for a couple of years and in the workplace (as well as in any other place), they adopt a haughty, 'superior' (they like to think an 'intellectual') approach to whatever they do. Once they adopt a position or especially the aesthete of a position, you wont shift them! They stick to a view like glue on a blanket, right or wrong and see change (or even worse admitting their judgment was flawed), as simply not possible. The French psychy is indeed odd and even more impermeable when it comes to anything to do with England or anything english based. They teach their kids that Napoleon came out on top in the battle of Waterloo and 10 - 14 year olds will argue vociferously in favour of this view. Wenger is such a Frenchman. 'French is good. Everything else is dubious and if you dont agree then your a phillistine' This is his view. The feeble French mentality is seen as 'sexy' due to its unpredicitabilty. Theyre proud of it! Only anger gets them out of the mental straitjacket they live in and they dont get angry very much! Until Arsenal shed the French clothing, the Club wont succeed in my view. The Board and Wenger have slowly drained the character from Arsenal and we re now a cafe Club, we shrug the shoulders and sneer when things go wrong or grin when we feel slightly aggrieved. Its totally and utterly incompatible with the requirements of Premier League football and with all due respect to the French (they do have some good cultural qualities by the way)its a way of thinking thats never served them too well throughout their history.

  38. Gooner 48

    Jul 04, 2012, 13:17 #23759

    Mark Lawrenson is a total bell-end, quite how the Beeb chose to put him ahead of the others suggests a huge back-hander or sheer idiocy. Biggest miss was not hearing Gary Neville, the man who has taken punditry by the balls and shown all the others who is boss.

  39. Tony Evans

    Jul 04, 2012, 12:45 #23758

    Goonercolesyboy - the point you are missing is that Wenger was being critical of Spain for using their ball possession as a tool to defend. It wouldn't be a ridiculous comment if Wenger had meant it as praise but he didn't. Reading between the lines his comment on Spain appears to reinforce mine and many others view on Wenger in that defence is a dirty word to him and not something he or Arsenal need to worry about. How many goals are we going to concede this time around 50+?

  40. Angry & Frustrated

    Jul 04, 2012, 12:15 #23757

    @goonercoylesboy- The observation which Wenger was making is that Spain were boring by using possesion as a tool to defend. As you have correctly pointed out, there is nothing wrong with doing this. In Wenger's view however possesion should only ever be used for attack, and never for defending! That is why so many of us have picked up on this because it simply reafirms our opinion that Wenger views anything to do with defence as dirty and not worthy of consideration, as the only way to play football in his opinion is to attack. This is why last season we conceded 49 goals, and are likely to repeat that miserable statistic this time round, because of Wenger's total disdain and disregard for anything associated with defence (hopefully Boulds influence may counter balance Wenger's all guns blazing approach here). This lets be honest is the one issue which most anti Wenger people like myself object too, his gung ho approach which leaves the back door wide open to be exploited on the counter attack which is why we haven't won anything for seven years now, and are very unlikely too in the near future, because the sucker punch goal is always just a moment away at Wenger's Arsenal where all the supposed defenders are often caught upfield!

  41. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Jul 04, 2012, 11:26 #23756

    Ah, apologies Angry & Frustrated - my silly remarks were meant for maguiresbridgegooner. Bugger. Still, 11 Brian Blesseds playing for The Arsenal would be a sight to see.

  42. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Jul 04, 2012, 11:10 #23755

    Angry & Frustrated, I don't think beards are the problem. I'd have eleven Brian Blesseds turning out for The Arsenal if they all showed courage, teamwork and positional awareness. Spain have had a bloke that looks like Bon Jovi's keyboard flogger playing at centre half for the past 5 years and it hasn't done them any harm....and I can't stand Bon Jovi...

  43. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 04, 2012, 10:28 #23754

    I didn't read Wenger's comments about Spain but from what I have read from the above posters makes me ask the question, who of you are football coaches? I am and to say that they, Spain, used their ball possession as a tool to defend is absolutely correct...not sure why that is a ridiculous comment...or am I missing something? I agree that they chased and harried the ball in all areas but when they got it they kept it wherever they gained possession, mainly in the opposition half I think you will find...you cannot score without the ball. If I haven't read his "comments" correctly then I stand to be corrected...

  44. Ron

    Jul 04, 2012, 9:29 #23753

    Calm down Herbert, you'll give yourself a seizure!Take a tablet. PS What do international caps prove these days by the way? Denilson has Brazilian caps, Downing has many England caps, Kuyt has many Dutch caps. Do you see the pattern? Mertersacker has many German caps, playing in the same tepid German teams as Podolski. You should bear in mind that most of Podolski s (and Mertersachers) have been gained in a flat and lean time for Germany when theyve had some pretty ordinary teams too. 'Go down the lane you hater'. Very original! Grow up you idiot and accept that many of us are tired of Wenger, his methods,his bleating, bullsh-----g and bellyaching. It doesnt make us right admittedly and for sure doesnt make you right either! Youre not Mandys Husband are you or maybe Ivan s Son?

  45. Tony Evans

    Jul 04, 2012, 8:31 #23752

    Mandy - Even the most rabid anti Wenger Gooner would not brand him a complete failure as that is patently not true. The crux of the issue a great many of us have with Wenger is the fact that he does not address Arsenal's defensive frailties. Also his backing of players like Almunia for amazing amounts of time before finally admitting defeat and sending them packing drives us nuts. The fact that he achieves fourth place in spite of this gives weight to your pro Wenger stance but surely you are able to agree with me that he is unlikely to take us higher if we continue to leak goals like a sieve and don't take a tougher stance with all the 'deadwood' blighting the squad.

  46. Angry & Frustrated

    Jul 04, 2012, 8:26 #23751

    @Mandy Dodd For me to cheer up as you suggest I would happily do so if one of the following two options were to happen. 1 Wenger to revert back to his 98-04 era where defending was not seen as something dirty not to be bothered with, coupled with players who actually had "mental strength" rather than one's that Wenger tells us we have! 2 As the first option is highly unlikely to happen given Wenger's recent ridiculous comments, for him to leave and for Arsenal to get in a young manager keen to prove himself but already with a good cv, someone possibly like AVB who was shafted by the old Chelsea players and it will be intersting to see how he fares at the Spuds. Finally my observations about your never ending head in the sand backing of Wenger were written because a bit like your comment about bees the same argument can be used against you. Because if the bees made a comeback in your eyes it would have been Wenger who was instrumental in this resurrection!

  47. Ken Dodd

    Jul 03, 2012, 23:59 #23750

    By jove,by jove,what a beautiful day to shove Wenger into a beehive and shout as the little fellas swarm all over him: ''Hey Arsene,that's some nifty defending don't you think!?''

  48. Ronster

    Jul 03, 2012, 23:42 #23749

    Mandy Dodd.....AVB?....Hmmmmmmm,interesting.....remind us how many European trophies Arse-ne has on his CV!

  49. Mandy dodd

    Jul 03, 2012, 18:21 #23747

    Ooohhh, getting a bit personal, Cheer up angry and frustrated, it is not all that bad, after all it is not as if we have gone out and made AVB manager is it?. Wenger was not the only one to criticise Spain for some of their earlier performances. The article is about Spain's performance in the final, not about wenger. But then again, someone could write a lead article about the decline in the bee population, or anything else you may care to dream up, and I am quite sure some on here would use even that as a stick to beat wenger with. You may no longer hero worship wenger as is your clear prerogative , you may be unhappy with aspects of his management, but that is not a reason to completely lose perspective. Wenger may not have recently achieved what you or maybe at times I may have wanted him to achieve, but to dismiss him as a complete failure, come on ...look around!

  50. Herbert

    Jul 03, 2012, 16:59 #23746

    @Ron - You blatantly dont hope your wrong! You disgust me! 2 players s igned, an dyou write them off with the most ignorant of statements, jesus! How did we end up with "fans" like you? It amazes me lack of any football knowledge people who comment on this board have some times! Podolski has 100caps and you decide to cast him aside straight away, with your years of football nuance and knowledge. Go down the lane you hater!

  51. jjetplane

    Jul 03, 2012, 14:19 #23745

    Wenger is at the same point as Beckham - out of touch with the art of playing football, but very in touch with the money that gets thrown aroung in some circles like confetti. Not only do Spain have no forwards, they have also compressed defence into midfield - the kind of game we had when Adams, Pires et al ran the show. Jack - you've got yer work cut out cause I cannot see any helpers.

  52. Ron

    Jul 03, 2012, 13:01 #23744

    I was of the view that Spains football wasnt that exhillarating pre Final, but the Final just shows that they played with one of Wengers 'handbrakes' on! They were great and Wenger is a delusional old myopic. Arsenal wont do anything next season. Podolski was the one failure of that German side and Giroud is totally untried and an unknown quality. It seems like its old Bendtner out and new Bendtner's in to me. Hope im wrong.

  53. DW Thomas

    Jul 02, 2012, 23:48 #23742

    Again what a joke Wenger's comments are. Sure, you can defend by possession, but goals win games. Yesterday Spain were amazing! Look at just their midfield alone and how good those guys are. One commentator on ESPN said Iniesta was in his 20th major tournament final. Incredible that kind of experience! The players for Spain are all winners. I myself root for Les Bleus as my father was French and I loved the teams of Platini and Zidane. France had they won in 2006 would be one of the great generations and maybe still are up there with the best (think of Pires, Henry, Zidane, Petit, Viera, Makalele, et. al). Yet, now they are a joke and shadow of former great French teams. Nasri and Benzema? Please! Evra, too and others now make Les Bleus look like a bunch of spoiled brats. Like Arsenal, they need a new manager who can run a tight ship and bring massive young egos down to earth! Cesc's comments are funny and hopefully ring long in Wenger's ears. I do not dislike the man, in fact he is a great coach, or rather was. Yet, with the news of Wilshere out until mid-September and no new defenders in or DMs after a 49 goals against season, this club is now showing the signs of true has-been status. Wenger's attitude, comments, and ideas remind me of an old man who keeps complaining about how things cost so much these days and he longs for the old times. Giroud and Podolski are decent signings (we have to wait and see how good) but if RVP goes we must replace him with a true world class star! Otherwise Groundhog Day is beginning again.

  54. AFCasap

    Jul 02, 2012, 22:42 #23740

    spain were brilliant anyone who says different is blind to the fact, eg wenger,,,with his "arselona lite" minos the work rate and the players to play the total football spanish style....who is he to talk, his tactics have won f all...cescs set up for silva was world class

  55. Angry & Frustrated

    Jul 02, 2012, 20:59 #23739

    @Mandy Dodd you say any stick to beat Wenger with, well who provided us with that stick then? Did we invent what Wenger said? Just because you have some warped fatal attraction to him, and are incapable of seeing the wood but for the trees, does that mean we are not entitled to comment on Wenger's actual words? Your hero is out of touch and well beyond his sell by date, and has rightly been criticized widely for his comments about Spain. Even his supposed favourite son Fabregas has had his say (thinly disguised) about Wenger not understanding the game of football. Meaning that yes defence is believe it or not Mandy, and I believe this may come as a bit of a shock to you, as we all know it does for Wenger, 50% or half or five out of ten or 0.5 of the game of football, and it's this that Fabregas was refering to. We merely picked up on Wenger's ridiculous comments about Spain, re using possesion as a tool for defending rather than his gung ho mission of only attacking and hence surprise surprise regularly conceding (look at the 49 against column from last season, the worst at Arsenal for over 30 years). If Wenger was an eight year old schoolboy I could understand this way of thinking, but no unfortunatly he is not and remains our manager, and those words confirm to us that another season of guaranteed failure awaits, because of his naive thinking. By failure Mandy as it's obvious most things need spelling out to you, I mean trophless and that does NOT I repeat NOT include Wenger's fourth placed trophy, as we have been for seven years now and counting. Again this may be hard for you to digest Mandy, but all of us on here like you originally hero worshipped Wenger, including me! The difference being that we have used our own thought process and not that of the Arsenal PLC PR machine, or Ivan the terrible's views, or Etonian Dead-Woods ramblings, and added together the mounting evidence for over 5 years now (in other words not a gut reaction, but considered opinion) that Wenger is no longer fit for purpose. Try using your own brain to analyse Wenger, rather than blindly following him and you might find it liberating, as then you won't have to jump off that cliff when Wenger instructs you to, or have to face boiling his daughters bunny because he has not reciprocated on your advances!!

  56. Mandy Dodd

    Jul 02, 2012, 19:29 #23738

    Any stick to beat Wenger with!

  57. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 02, 2012, 15:03 #23736

    Agree with Angry & Frustrated good post we will never get anywhere near the type of football spain play until the defence is sorted and given priority with bouldy coming in is that now the case ? lets hope so but judging by his comments maybe not.

  58. Gare Kekeke

    Jul 02, 2012, 14:49 #23735

    Congratulations to Spain. Worthy winners in my view. The score line was harsh on Italy but the best team won. Like many, I too was switching between channels for the match and was browsing the news channels from the world after the final whistle and was surprised to see Spain’s triumph being big news across the globe. The power of football eh? That’s another blow for the football haters who try to convince us all that ‘reality’ TV shows such as Big Brother, TOWIE & the awful Geordie Shore is bigger than the world’s greatest sport. As for the nonsense about Spain being boring, bitch please!!!! In my view, this mainly comes from arrogant Little Englanders trying to justify England as a major footballing power (one tournament win suggests they are not. Deal with it FFS) and bitter & twisted followers/people in the game who find their success boring. Wenger’s comments about Spain pre-final made me laugh. I agree with Angry & Frustrated and Tony Evans. Judging by Wenger’s comments and I could be wrong here but it seems as if Wenger stills refuses to accept that good/great teams are built on a solid defence. I look at our defenders and I don’t see many actual stoppers a la Adams & Campbell but footballers who treat defending secondary and who are more inclined to attack and unlike the peers at rival clubs are more prone to errors and being physically outmuscled by stronger opponents e.g. Drogba. Only time will tell whether the legend that is Steve Bould will make a difference. One last thing, RVP, Walcott & Song are now in the final year of their contracts and regardless what many think of the latter two, we are no closer to either one of the aforementioned trio being resolved in our favour. But I suppose I have to be blinkered like Wenger and convince myself that they will stay with us in the long term because they ‘love’ the club. Where was the ‘love’ from Clichy, Fabregas & Nasri last year? Or in recent years, Toure, Abebayor, Henry & Hleb to name but a few. As Tina Turner said back in 1984 “What’s Love Got To Do With It?” Up The Arsenal!

  59. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 02, 2012, 13:19 #23733

    The best team won and another medal for cesc yes he would have won it even if he was still with us but his career is looking a lot better now than it was in his last year at the emirates how many medals has he won since his departure? another one that got away or seen the light. Once upon a time arsenal used to try and play like spain but i suppose you need the right players to make that happen.No doubt arsene will continue to try but i hope he has eventually realised you need a proper defence to have any chance of it working.Now that the Euros are over maybe some of the scruffs that were playing will go and have a shave what were all these beards about? it wasn't that they hadn't any time on their hands.Spain are kissing their medals this morning something england are a long long way off doing.

  60. Tony Evans

    Jul 02, 2012, 13:15 #23732

    Again I agree with Angry and Frustrated. The drivel spouted by Wenger shows no sign of abating. He just does not see the evidence amply provided by Spain that his flawed vision of how he sees football will never win anything. For all Spain's brilliant forward play, just like Barca at club level, they work their socks off when the opposition has the ball and can defend. This aspect of their game is just as important as their superb passing play. This is what Wenger either can not see or simply refuses to. Because of this I have written next season off already and every subsequent one until he goes. On yet another depressing note worryingly Podolski was virtually anonymous for Germany and as for Giroud I know very little about him but I have to assume he will be crap if Wenger has bought him! Now we just need a couple of unheard of Wenger 'bargains' and RVP finally confirming the date of his P45 and that will complete a normal Wenger summer. Happy Days!

  61. Matt

    Jul 02, 2012, 10:56 #23728

    Don't know about Spain but I find our football pretty boring at the moment, Mr Wenger. Trying to imitate them with poor quality imports from France. Does he find Spain boring because they're not going to concede a cheap goal after being on top for most of the game? Good analysis anyway. Roll on 2014. Oh, and 18th August

  62. JJDeede

    Jul 02, 2012, 10:11 #23727

    Fair analysis - Italy always give it a good go,but after going down to 10 men, their legs gave out. Terrific first half, entertaining final overall. On the BBC/ITV comparison, well said. Add to that the insufferable commentary of Guy Mowbray, who can not only never have kicked a ball, I don't detect he has ever played any ball game in his life. For the first time in my life, for a dual-channel broadcast, I switched to the as-standard mediocrity of ITV from the progressively dreadful BBC. Time to move on Auntie - even bring back Mottie, it would be an improvement on this.

  63. Angry & Frustrated

    Jul 02, 2012, 10:05 #23726

    Spain were awesome last night, and fully deserve their success, not just from last night but from over the past 4/5 years. Did anyone read what Wenger had said about Spain prior to kick off, when he joined in with the bandwagon about Spain being boring? He criticed them for using possesion as a tool to defend, rather than attack. In other words don't expect any change in his gung ho tactics where defence is considered a dirty aspect of the game which should not be given any attention. A post match comment by Fabregas spoke volumes, when he said that some people who were critical of Spain did not understand football as a game. I think amongst others he was directing his riposte at was Wenger. Wenger would do well to analyse Spain's success, which was also based on a rock solid defence, coupled with pressing the opposition when they did not have the ball. However I doubt Wenger is capable of veering off his blinkered philosophy path judging by his comments about Spain's lack of percieved use of the ball for attacking, accusing them of using it as a tool to defend! Those observations by Wenger gives the answer to all those wondering whether or not he will focus more attention to the defensive side of the game which are the route cause of all our failures these last 7 seasons, and the answer is a resounding no!!