End product

Online Ed: 2-0 at Anfield? It's like the good old days!



End product

Diaby – At last


As visits to Anfield go, this was one Arsene Wenger needed to win more than most. With the club posting a net profit figure in the summer transfer window – of which more later – he will feel vindicated in his claims that his squad is strong enough to compete without using all the money available to him during the summer.

Let’s concentrate on the game and what it says about Arsenal 2012-13 for starters. Alan Smith claimed in commentary that his former colleague Steve Bould had been allowed to get his hands on the defence. For the sake of expediency, we will, for today, leave the yawning question of why we had to wait so long for an obvious deficiency to be addressed, and revel in the fact a more organized unit has posted three consecutive clean sheets at the start of the season. Key to this is the work of the midfield trio – all of whom seem clued up as to where they should be and what they should be doing when the opposition have the ball. In the case of Abou Diaby, this is a real revelation, as previously, this observer had always questioned his positional sense. Perhaps the tale of Steve Bould having grabbed Alex Song by the neck in pre-season for not following instruction says a lot. Maybe Diaby listened and allowed the manager to option of getting shot of Song, who thought he knew better.

Previously, Diaby had shown hints of the player he could be, but the constant and sometimes lengthy spells on the treatment table led to many, including myself, giving up on the number 2. Some went as far as resenting the salary being paid to him. However, if he remains fit, and Jack Wilshere ever returns to first team contention, Arsene Wenger will have the kind of headache managers dream about. Given Diaby’s history, it is a big if, and should he become injured again, there is a valid question to be asked about the non-use of transfer funds, but for now, with every match, the Frenchman looks a better player, one that can actually win games for the team. Arteta and Cazorla performed equally creditably alongside him, and playing a Liverpool side that tried to match Arsenal at their own game meant we were able to watch a 90 minutes very unlike the first two fixtures of the season.

On a couple of occasions, the visitors rode their luck in defence. The marking of Agger at an early corner would have had Steve Bould tearing his hair out were there any left, and Mertesacker was probably saved by Luis Suarez’ reputation for hitting the deck too easily when a second half penalty could have been awarded. But this is Anfield, of course Liverpool will create opportunities. That Arsenal weathered them should build confidence for other stern tests to come in the near future.

Up front, things clicked. Whether or not the inclusion of the Ox – a more industrious player – than Walcott or Gervinho was a factor in this is a point for debate, although my feeling is that the majority would prefer to see him starting in preference to the aforementioned duo. He seems less wasteful in possession and more aggressive when the opposition have the ball. Giroud missed his customary sitter, and hopefully, once he nets his first, more goals will follow. He won’t be the first imported forward to take a while to get off the mark, and it’s been acknowledged that the goals have to be shared around the team more. On that level, the other two new arrivals did their bit and combined well for both goals.

So, a commanding display at a venue where points are invariably hard won. Liverpool are themselves in the process of rebuilding, and with more new faces, are less far down the road than Arsenal. However, it should be remembered that Wenger’s team won at the same venue last season and still finished 19 points adrift of the leaders. One swallow does not make a summer. Having said that, there is no debate that the team – as a unit – is defending much, much better and that the new players will not hit the ground running. A home win against Southampton in the next fixture will set them up nicely for the matches with Manchester City and Chelsea. Most fans would have settled for five points from the first three games, given two of them were notoriously difficult away trips. Going forward, momentum is key and the new found defensive solidity can only breed confidence in the ability to get results. This looks like a meaner, more efficient Arsenal. There is still room for the passing football, but it is being done by players who seem more focused when it breaks down.

So good news, but the fact the club have spent less then they have earned in the transfer market, with the Arsenal Supporters Trust estimating there is £50 million unused in the player trading account suggests a lack of ambition on the part of the manager to close the gap on the teams that finished above Arsenal last season. No-one is pretending the Gunners can compete with Manchester City and Chelsea in the spending stakes, but one thing Manchester United have shown is that if you do use the money at your disposal it is possible to compete with bigger spending rivals. They swallowed the fee for Robin van Persie, and at the moment, it looks like money well spent.

Naturally, it is early days, but if loss of individual form or injury weakens Arsenal as it did last season, fans will have the right to question whether £50 million serves a football club better sitting in the bank or spent on strengthening the squad. If Arsene Wenger is able to turn around at the end of the campaign having proved you do not need to make the most of your resources to compete, then fair enough. I hope he can, and I hope my own belief that the club have not done their upmost to close the gap is proved incorrect.

Please do not get me wrong, I am delighted with the win yesterday. But just as I would not slam the club for a home draw against Sunderland, I am not going to think we are world beaters after an away win at Anfield – as stated earlier, we managed that in spring as well. The bigger picture is the season, all 38 games of it, and whether the club are in the mix come Easter 2013. The signs are good, principally due to the work of Steve Bould and the compromise of Project Youth. Let us hope they continue, as experience and a sound defence can carry a team a long, long way when they have off days.

Finally, a word about Arsene Wenger’s belief in his players, his protection and nurturing of them and loyalty. Theo Walcott remained on the bench yesterday, having rejected a generous deal to keep him at the club. Alex Song acted unprofessionally and would not knuckle down and do what was asked of him. Nasri and Fabregas departed because they did not believe staying at the club would serve their careers best. All young players that the manager believed, I am sure, ‘got’ the culture of the club and would be around for the long term. Finally, the reality check has hit home and he is now buying experience instead of potential, having been shown that potential is not going to stick around once it has become proven. He has admitted that there is more chance of young British talent remaining, so gradually, more have been given their chance.

So the balance at the club is changing. More experience, more concentration on what happens when possession is lost, more young native players rather than teenage imports. Project youth was an idealistic notion, but in truth, it would have been a first if it beat experience. In its execution, Wenger managed to retain Champions League involvement, but in the end, too many rats left a ship they could see was in danger of sinking. Now we have Captain Bould at the steering wheel, the course looks steadier, the leaks are being repaired. And any Arsenal fan of a particular vintage will tell you how much they love a clean sheet. Another 35 of those and we will all be smiling next May.

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  1. Jason B.

    May 13, 2013, 23:40 #34815

    Memo to all gooners going to Wigan game.Lift every last breath and get right behind the team tomorrow night.We have one last chance to make home advantage count.But then,this may explain why we are so poor at home.Lack of atsmophere,too many neutral fans in the stadium for my liking.Doesn't exactly inspire the players to perform.We are the twelveth men.We need 3 points.We need to get behind the team.So please,don't sit there and dwell on what might have been.Afetr all,we don't want to go to Newcastle in fifth,do we?

  2. Mandy Dodd

    May 13, 2013, 20:19 #34812

    Now Ron even I am not that ancient. Take your point about what you see the quote summing up in an Arsenal context and that the originator may be irrelevant. Indeed many others suggest Einstein as the source but Einstein was amongst other things a research scientist, repetition is the name of the game there until some little thing leaps out at you, or maybe does not. This quote can actually only be sourced back to a publication of narcotics anonymous from 1982 , yes i know some on here may think wenger is on drugs, but this context suits the words far more than einstein being the originatior. My point, maybe using the name of the great man gives this quote more validity than it deserves

  3. Tony Evans

    May 13, 2013, 15:48 #34806

    Great post Ron - entirely agree. The club must be laughing all the way to the bank, but for how much longer? As long as there are punters willing to stump up I suppose and not create a fuss about it.

  4. The Conscience

    May 13, 2013, 15:42 #34805

    The problem with poor Simon Rose is that he's clearly a Wenger lover, but because that's such an absurd thing for any Arsenal fan to admit, given the laughing stock he's turned us into, Simon denies his love. It's not why you say Simon - it's what you don't say. It's the way you don't talk about how finances haven't stopped teams like Wigan, Brum and Swansea winning trophies but yet you wrote several pushes banging on about money. You are doing what all AKBs do: ignore football, talk money. Talking about finances helps overlook Wenger's pathetic management. Sadly for you, we won't ever forget cup humiliations against relegated Brum, the 4-4 Newcastle, the 4-4 Spuds, the Bradford farce or Blackburn. All teams with less dosh! The real negativity, comes from the likes of you Simon. Sitting there passively claiming "not much I can do" as you continue to swell the club's coffers with your ST money. It's cowardly to the extreme. If you're an Arsenal fan who cares about competing and winning, and want the club to regain respect, then you absolutely will want Wenger OUT. He cannot continue. However. If you're one of these unambitious types, content with mediocrity, then Wenger is the perfect manager for you; whilst Giroud, Gervinho, Diaby, Squillaci are the perfect players for you. Some of us want and deserve better. Change comes from us, the ones boycotting ST renewals and taking financial action to force change. Those holding the club back are the Simon Roses of this earth, full of excuses and wishy washy nonsense, stuck in nostalgia, jam tomorrow always etc.

  5. Angry & Frustrated

    May 13, 2013, 14:15 #34801

    Simon you are like Neville Chamberlain, except it's not peace in our time is it? We are a divided group, with the predominantly older longer standing supporters not prepared to put up with any more of this bulls**t. What we want and need, is a Winston Churchill character who can unite the club in a common cause - winning or at least using all the resources available to try do so, and that includes getting Usmanov onside. Your stance of shrugging your shoulders is music to the current regimes ears, and that of Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Spurs and even possibly Liverpool next season. It's your resigned "negativity" of simply accepting the status quo, that irks people like me. Instead of resigning yourself to yet another guaranteed groundhog day identical season next time round, how about joining in with the rest of us and make a stand against the people who are destroying this football club we all love. We have wasted a good 5 years now, and whoever eventually replaces Wenger will have a really tough job, because we have been allowed to fall away from the very top by a complacent egotistical manager, only interested in money board, and apologists like you. This is why so many of us are now thinking the unthinkable and wanting Wigan to win tomorrow, because long term it may be the best result Arsenal ever get, if it leads to the end of Wenger's reign. Although knowing Wenger's luck, and the Spuds ability to blow it just as the winning post appears, we may still get the Champ league berth by default for the second season on the bounce. This would be disastrous, as it would no doubt lead to a Wenger contract extension!! The mere thought of that happening would be the final nail in our collective coffins, because that would guarantee us obscurity for at least another three/four years. Is that what you really want Simon?

  6. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 13, 2013, 13:56 #34800

    Simon you are probably right ogl is going nowhere for another season,so should we all just sit back and not do our nut about wanting him out like you ? and let him carry on failing like he's been doing over the last seven or so seasons without protest just because he's got one year left on his contract ? what difference does it make because he has just one year left, SGRB has already stated what Gazidis said if the relationship with fans broke down his position would become untenable, that has happened, so it's immaterial how long he has left on his fat contract so whats he doing hanging around for another year.

  7. Seven Kings Gooner

    May 13, 2013, 13:24 #34795

    Ron - You have summed it up brilliantly.

  8. Red Member

    May 13, 2013, 12:43 #34793

    Ron - An absolutely brilliant post and very sad that what you have said is so true.

  9. Stroud Green Road Boy

    May 13, 2013, 12:36 #34792

    Simon, there is living in hope, and there is being realistic and learning from history. Those 'wallowing in negativity' live in hope there will be change at the club. You can either join the push for change or shrug your shoulders and say there is nothing we can do about Wenger being in charge - that to me would be wallowing in negativity. Gazidis has said that if the relationship between Wenger and the fans broke down it would make his position untenable. So the more people being 'negative' about Wenger, the better. I've seen you say several times you've cited Wenger's flaws for years, but I don't see you actually citing them. And of course you haven't actually stated 'I am an AKB' or 'I love Wenger' - who would, in such bald terms? I think it's pretty evident though you remain a big fan and want him to carry on. All your current stance does is help perpetuate the status quo.

  10. Seven Kings Gooner

    May 13, 2013, 12:09 #34788

    Simon there are no "crazy comments" just people who have a passionate view about Arsenal's future. How can wanting to appoint a proven winning manager be negative! For me negative is carrying on in this same benign manner and being asked to pay top dollar to watch many players who belong in leagues way below the PL - Simon I am very angry at the planned demise of a once unbeatable team - it has been deliberate and too many people passively accept it!

  11. Ron

    May 13, 2013, 11:47 #34787

    Simon - i think the truth actually is that football now, eurowide only has a handful of clubs, the titans of the game if you like who actually want to 'step up'. Most of the lesser sized Clubs who lag behind the titans have no need to win trophies or seek glory? The cost of getting from where they are already to the very pinnacle of their leagues is too prohibitive to justify it (in their view) and with the CL format being what it is, mediocrity and humdrum is well rewarded. A good many Arsenal fans would accept their position and limited ambitions if they only made more of an effort to flavour the Prem League and CL 'making the numbers up' type existence with a Cup tilt here and there instead of aborting/burning them all the time on the alter of EPL and CL mediocrity. Do you not agree? Whichever way you look at it, money for the few has ruined football and Clubs like Arsenal are too gutless to be up front with how they see themselves in the grander scheme of where the game is, choosng instead to con the fans into thinking they do think 'big', so to keep them buying tickets in anticiptaion of finding the end of the rainbow. It aint going to happen though and it means fans have the hard choice of accepting it or banging our heads up a wall and demanding change. It all pretty pointless really and for my part, ive chosen to step aside from football in terms of going to games very often or even taking it seriosuly anymore. Its good to debate it though but they ll get little of my money now, which is sad after a lifetime supporting the Club. The truth is that Arsenal for me anyway, 'dissapeared' once they left Highbury. I dont even much like whats left Its a Club bereft of inspiration and ambition and in its own quieter way is just as avavaricious as Clubs like Chelsea and Manch City. Its a shame the Club pretends it operates on some higher moral plane. A bit of honesty with fans could change a lot of perceptions. Better that than endless false hope, spin and promises.

  12. thatsimonrose

    May 13, 2013, 11:09 #34783

    Some sane comments here and some of the usual crazy ones! '1975' seems the sanest. This article is simply about Arsenal having an ideal small window now for stepping up. It doesn't mean that I am any more convinced than anyone else that we will actually do it, as we have failed to act for several seasons! People do like to fill in the blanks for me! Personally, I like to live in hope, not wallow in negativity. It's amazing how often people here put words into my mouth. Nowhere do I say I have a love affair with Wenger! Nowhere do I say I am an AKB! I've said many times that I've cited Wenger flaws for years and that labels are lazy and pointless. I fear for the blood pressure of some of you! A key point with Wenger is a simple one: it's unlikely that he's going anywhere for at least a season. So that is the premise I work on. I am not going to do my nut about wanting him out, right now, if that is a very unlikely outcome. As I've already said, many holler for Klopp to replace Wenger, but that has recently become very hard to pull off. If Klopp genuinely stays at Dortmund one more season, then there is no harm trying hard next summer if Wenger doesn't renew. But a year is a long time in football, much will happen in the meantime. If we finish top four Wenger will stay and we can only hope for proper action, as we have for some time. If we fail, I still think little will change. That won't be fun but it is what it is.

  13. Ron

    May 13, 2013, 10:29 #34780

    Mandy - Maybe they didnt, but that quote sums Arsenal and Wenger up to a tee nontheless! PS. You werent personal freinds with those guys you mention were you and within their inner sanctum by any chance?

  14. Mark

    May 12, 2013, 19:47 #34772

    This is purely a pipe-dream. United is a club where everything is focused on winning. We are a club where everything is focused on making money with minimum outlay. The culture at our club will take years to change. The culture at United will pull Moyes through any difficult times. The last few years at our club have been marked by false hopes created to avoid facing the reality. We need less of 'what ifs', 'maybes' and hoping to prosper due to the failures of others. We need to re-build a club that worries only about being the best it can possibly. If we reach that point and win things, then great. If we reach that point and don't win, then at least we as a club gave our all. This is far better than endless wishful thinking and praying that teams like United ans the Spuds fall apart.

  15. Mandy Dodd

    May 12, 2013, 16:49 #34771

    Bored Einstein never said that not did mark twain or Benjamin franklin who are also repeatedly linked with that quote.

  16. CanadaGooner

    May 12, 2013, 15:26 #34770

    Well, looks like the true test will be upon us sooner rather than later; stoke are going to choke against spurs now that it seems they will stay in the premiership. So, can arsenal (with our useless players) will away at Newcastle? or better still; will Tuesday's game against Wigan at home not end in a soulless draw? It will all be clear in a few days. I don't see any logic to attempting to defend what Wenger has done in the last 8 years and what he's turned Arsenal into. Thanks for his great work in his first 8 years, now he has to go! The club isn't here to serve Wenger, he's a paid employee who's turned into a South American style dictator.

  17. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 12, 2013, 14:59 #34769

    Agree with ALsace L d T,it will be a travesty if we send them down even if it's just for the joy they gave us of seeing the look on the mercenaries faces after the final whistle, especially Nasri priceless.Wigan gave 100% throughout even with arguably a more important game against us on Tuesday night.Maybe if some of our overpaid premadonas had shown the same commitment and desire we could have been there ourselves,but as we know there's more important prizes to play for like the fourth place trophy.We'll now be hoping for another favor from Wigan that they turn up pissed or hungover (which i doubt) but it won't be because of a downer they'll be on a high and well up for it,will our lot ? or will it be the usual complacency ? we'll probably be up for it because Wengers reputation and holy grail are at stake and that's more important.

  18. Last Orders

    May 12, 2013, 14:36 #34768

    Oh dear Simon Rose love affair with Arsene continues. Look enough guys have given poor Simon a verbal smashing so I might as well join in! What planet do you live on? What have finances and money got to do with anything when Swansea, Wigan, Liverpool, Spurs and even bloody Portsmouth have won trophies in the past 8 years? Where are Wigan's excuses about not being able to compete with petro-dollars, they just went ahead and used motivation to beat Citeh! Where was Laudrup's "financial doping" argument when his Swansea knocked Chelsi out over two legs? Wenger is a shocking manager, not a SINGLE win against the top 3. FFS even Southampton, Wigan and QPR have managed that! Poor Arsene. He's on £7.5 mil a year, wins nada but that evil board keep giving him £7.5 mil! Hostage Arsene! Pfffft. Get your head out of his Arse(ne). We can profit from this WITH A NEW QUALITY MANAGER with a winning mentality. Not this loser we have been burdened with so long!!!

  19. CLUB'S DNA CHANGED FOR THE WORSE

    May 12, 2013, 14:15 #34767

    no passion no fight no heart no englishness; leaving highbury was all about the board putting the club up for sale to the highest bidder; that past board all made an absolute fortune and sold Arsena's DNA down the river in the meantime. Emirates 70% full for the rest of its years

  20. Ian

    May 12, 2013, 14:11 #34766

    Wishful thinking. Moyes organisation of his side on their recent visit was far superior to Wenger's. He didn't have the strikers to complete the job, but he will do now. He may well prove a better manager, in as much as his sides will be better balanced than Fergie's. Clutching at straws here, with Wenger's dismal tactical approach, and reliance on his one overall tactic of Barca lite.

  21. Bored

    May 12, 2013, 10:50 #34765

    Aaaah Simon Rose bless his cotton socks. You Wengerite cheerleaders just don't learn do you? Einstein said insanity is ding the se thing again and again, and expecting different results. Why would this summer be any different to the last 7 then! Pfffft. "Surely Arsene knows that proper investment this summer" zzzzzzzz. " With our new improved financial deals" zzzzzzz. Look. Arsenal have had over £70mil in a player tracing account, left for transfers alone, since 2007. That was SIX years ago. Keith Edelman and Fiszman confirmed that. Wenger has ALWAYS had that cash - yet it remains untouched and had actually grown to £123 million! Still untouched. Arsenal are scraping to beat Spuds, won nothing for 8 years and yet the cash remains there. So if Wenger wouldn't spend cash when he had wonderful opportunities when Chelski were in disarray over Scolari, when Citeh were nowhere and Arsenal were odds on for a title in 2008, and now that ManYoo have the most average squad they've ever had...WHY WOULD ANYTHING BE DIFFERENT NOW! You don't realise that Wenger has loaded this squad with so much rubbish from Giroud, Gervinho, Arteta (yes), Diaby, etc that it's going to need at least 4 world class players to solve it. That means keeper, centre back, defensive mid, striker. A top winger too. Ooops that's 5 players then. I'm truly baffled by the constant comedy of Wenger apologists like Simon Rose. History is your friend. A quick glance will tell you Wenger will be bragging about 4th place again next season. Pathetic'

  22. Joe S.

    May 12, 2013, 9:43 #34764

    For all of you bagging Martinez, I don't know where you've had your heads over the past two years. I hope it hasnn't been up Arsene Wegner's whatsnot. Wigan have just given me my best football rush sincre we almost won the Champions Jeague. As an Auastralian pundid quipped this morning, " Manchester U's loss could be Everton's gain. Meanwhile, as the goahead clubs set themselves up to jockey for next season's prizes Arsenal will watch the best available managerial talent go to other teams while Wegner clings fast to his " philosophy" and digs us deeper into the mire.

  23. Joeos

    May 11, 2013, 22:10 #34762

    It really was gross incompentence to sell Clichy and Nasri.

  24. Ronster

    May 11, 2013, 21:52 #34761

    4th place is preferable to Andy Linighan...Arsenal Football Club R.I.P........

  25. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    May 11, 2013, 21:32 #34760

    Thanks to Mandy for her reasoned response, which I accept. Have just watched Wigan win the F.A. Cup, because they wanted it and rose to the technical challenge of winning it. Our team, as a team, is not fit to lace their boots and it would be a moral travesty if we sent them down. We won't, because they will want it more, and because the Manager will not have enough time (3 days) to get used to the fact that they have had a spirit changing win. I'd love to say that he isn't that bright, but that's not true. The facts just will not intrude into his world fantasy view.The holders of both cups are underfunded teams (in Wigan's case grossly)who are properly led and do the basics properly.

  26. 1975

    May 11, 2013, 21:04 #34759

    I'm with you Simon. Wouldn't it be great if the club leapt into the market with ambitions like a top club should. But with this manager I'm affraid not. Not Sure he knows how to spend wisely.

  27. Green Hut

    May 11, 2013, 19:51 #34758

    Chris- You can type 'Wenger is being forced by the board to sell our best players that's a proven fact' as many times as you like, it's not going make it a proven fact. Our best players get sold because they want to leave, and they want to leave because of Wenger's vain, selfish and fultile moral quest to win the league whilst spending the least amount of money. If I could detect even the merest change in Wenger's financial attitude since Kroenke has been around I might have sympathy with your argument. But I can't, and I don't. Wenger is now as he was before, and I'm sure as he will be.

  28. Big Dave

    May 11, 2013, 19:36 #34757

    What colour is the sky in your world ?. You write so much but say so little

  29. Peter Wain

    May 11, 2013, 18:52 #34756

    Chris if you really think that Wenger is forced to sell our best players by the board you are a complete and utter idiot. I suspect that youu are a wind up merchant.

  30. Whinger_OUT_NOW

    May 11, 2013, 16:54 #34755

    Of course Simon Rose, the resident AKB in chief, wants Martinez to replace Whinger. Martinez is Whinger Lite. Have you seen his teams defend? They're shambolic at the back and display a Whinger trained defensive traits - dicking about with the ball in their own D, poor positional sense and trying to make cute passes despite having limited ability. His team thinks the season starts only in April. Same as Whinger who thinks the entire season revolves around getting 4th spot.

  31. Stroud Green Road Boy

    May 11, 2013, 15:14 #34754

    "Wenger is being forced by the board to sell our best players that's a proven fact." Is this 'the' Chris? Sounds like a comment from the dumber end of the AKB spectrum to me. Yes, the nasty, interfering board not only give Wenger a tiny overall budget to work with, they then tell him how to divide it up, forcing him to blow a big chunk of it on a £150m 'socialist' wage policy rather than a merit based one that would allow him to buy stars and pay star wages. Then to top it all off, they sell all his best players! He's even been forced to lie by the board by saying since 1997 he controls budget distribution and the ins and outs. Poor old Arsene, 17 years in the job and he still has so little power.

  32. Mandy Dodd

    May 11, 2013, 14:53 #34753

    not really Alsace, not my reason for doubting Moyes, who I actually think has done a good job at Everton, but I have seen him play for draws so many times, despite having some very talented players, his teams can be so negative - as witnessed recently against us, when he had everything to play for. I just wonder how much he can change that. Many say he is like Fergie - has Fergies ego played a role here? Still can only wait and see I guess, but I am delighted , ifsurprised at his appointment for now. I would not have wanted him at Arsenal, but only my opinion, how he would have done we shall never know

  33. Chris

    May 11, 2013, 13:52 #34752

    Stroud Green Road Boy - Wenger is being forced by the board to sell our best players that's a proven fact. Wenger should be praised that on what he has to work with and consistently achieving for the club.

  34. Alsace Lorraine De Totteridge

    May 11, 2013, 13:34 #34751

    The evidence is that we win nothing and move progressively backwards, while the quality of our squad dimishes as our good players get sold. Look at the squads each year. Make your own assessment of the quality of those squads and plot your own assessment against time. On the same graph, plot the increase in annual wage bill, and if you like the increase in the annual wage bills of other clubs. You already know what the graph looks like.

  35. Stroud Green Road Boy

    May 11, 2013, 12:11 #34750

    "objective analysis suggests that he isn't wasting any money at all, when you take into account that he effectively subsidises the wage bill through profitable tranfer dealings" Chris, you've effectively just admitted that for the Wenger model to operate, he has to sell our best players.

  36. Chris

    May 11, 2013, 11:31 #34748

    Alsace - objective analysis suggests that he isn't wasting any money at all, when you take into account that he effectively subsidises the wage bill through profitable tranfer dealings. Most discussions I've been involved in or seen usually come down to the point of whether Wenger is actually refusing to use all of the resources at his disposal. People have widely differing opiions and beliefs on this, most of which can be backed up with 'evidence' of one kind or another, so we're none the wiser.

  37. Canterbury Gooner

    May 11, 2013, 10:56 #34747

    Pretty much all the money from selling players has been put back into (insufficient) signings, not to mention the appalling wages given to dross. Financial constraints? He doesn't act like it.

  38. Amar Amdan

    May 11, 2013, 10:45 #34746

    I think Simon will regret writing this article in a year's time. Moyes was brought in not for his medals, or rather lack of them. He shares the same work ethic and discipline as Fergie. While that does not guarantee success in itself, i think the pkayers', staff, and most importantly the fans' acceptance towards his appointment would play a big role in making Moyes a success. At Arsenal, we are divided, none of us know the real direction of the club, we have lost our identity, we are unhappy, and we are not winning anything. Time for a change, #wengerout #boardout #gazidisout.

  39. Alsace Lorraine De Totteridge

    May 11, 2013, 10:43 #34745

    Dear Mandy. It wouldn't matter if Jesus Christ was Ferguson's successor. It is very rare for the successor of a great force of nature to repeat the trick.United are likely to remain a solid team in midfield and defence, because that is Moyes' track record. It would be a very hard job to continue with Ferguson's ability to coach his team to destroy defences through aggression, strong crossing and strong finishing. What you meant to do was to deprecate Mr Moyes because others here had the temerity to name him as a possible successor to La Grande Fromage degoutant. Well we shall see if Moyes has it at the very top level. One thing is for sure, if it doesn't go well, he won't be given much of a chance, so you may yet get your wish. I would have been very happy to give him a chance at Arsenal.

  40. Hamza

    May 11, 2013, 10:28 #34744

    I always enjoy reading your stuff Simon. Sadly, though, I think Stan/the board/Wenger will just see Ferguson's retirement as an opportunity to automatically finish higher up for the next 2 years WITHOUT any shakeup/additional effort/investment. It's like McLaren, Ferrari and RedBull all retiring early in an F1 race at Spa-Francorchamps... You can basically guarantee a podium for Renault, so why should they race Kimi on a 2-stopper on the super-softs??? Ok, i think I'll shut up now

  41. Stroud Green Road Boy

    May 11, 2013, 10:06 #34743

    To answer your question, Chris - no, because a) there are many problems with Wenger's management that have nothing to do with money b) after what's going to be at least 9 years without a trophy it's time to try a new manager anyway, and c) it's academic anyway as I find the notion that Wenger is struggling manfully on under an oppressive board laughable. My question to Simon also applies to you and all the other apologists, as does my prediction of what will happen and what Wenger and his supporters will all be saying. It will be interesting to see if I'm right or not in a few months' time.

  42. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    May 11, 2013, 10:03 #34742

    Why do the Wenger apologists refer to him being starved of money? He is wasting tens of millions a year on the wages, of players who are not good enough. Even if you replaced them with better players, such ability as they had would be undermined by anti-coaching. We have the money, we have some players, now all we need is a decent Manager. And yes I would have been happy with Moyes and lost in rapture at Mourinho. I would have given a very large amount of money to be there on his first day when he gave the mother of all b*ll*ckings to the team and started them on the right course.

  43. Mandy dodd

    May 11, 2013, 9:53 #34741

    Some interesting points in this article. Moyes to utd will be as successful as steve mclaren to England ......leopards and spots.....

  44. Badger

    May 10, 2013, 22:40 #34740

    Simon - Do you work in motivation? I read your tweets and your articles on here and never fail to be impressed by your positivity. I am sure the club could benefit from employing you on the pyschology side to motivate the players, but I suppose you havent worked half a day in football. As a club I think we are at a crossroad, in danger of becoming a Liverpool if we don't invest wisely, and I think we desperately need a top four spot as it finally seems Wenger has realised we have to spend, if you can believe the noises coming out of the club. It would be criminal if finally waking up to that we drop out of the top four and cant attract the right players. BTW how are the games panning out with the predictions you did a while back? Keep the faith.

  45. Guy in Jersey

    May 10, 2013, 22:40 #34739

    It doesn't matter who we buy - it's the whole culture of the club that needs to change. Hell, even if we did sign someone like Radamel Falcao (which ain't never going to happen), Wenger would most likely play him on the wing. Instead, we're going to get Jovetic (who lacks the pace we need) and a few cast-offs that none of the big clubs want (Pepe Reina anyone?), but don't worry we've still got Diaby! And Chamakh, Denilson, Bendtner, Park, Djourou, Gervinho, Mannone, Santos, Joel Campbell, Wellington Silva (he's sure to come good!), Samuel Galindo (who he?)......Thierry may even be available next Spring.

  46. N4

    May 10, 2013, 22:27 #34738

    This is a fair comment about taking advantage but once the new managers have caught up with us for does that mean that it will be excusable to go back to our current situation?! The way this article is written is that you have accepted that Arsenal has lost its way and may not come back to what they used to be, I.e. the type of football they used to play and winning trophies. Only time will tell what has happened to our Arsenal!!!

  47. Bard

    May 10, 2013, 21:32 #34737

    Simon the issue is not who is or isn't manager of Untd but the third rate players Wenger keeps signing. Opportunity or not we'll win nothing with the squad we've got. Wengers had his chances post 2005 but he's messed up. Its time to move on. For what its worth I agree Chelsea+ mourinho looks thw best bet.Arsenal are an irrelevant side show these days

  48. jjetplane

    May 10, 2013, 20:08 #34736

    Well Simon - I managed the title (sic) and first scene setter but this silly tiresome love affair with the prof is boring us s.......! We will suffer the complacency of giving Wenger an even freee rein than is normal now his 'old adversary' is gone. Maybe the slippery dog Wenger gave RVP as a farewell gift and the purple one rewarded Arsenal by the possibility of future humilations being shelved as Mancworld seeks to survive even though they are already in decline. Without going much further I predict Arsenal will be left behind by the likes of Totters and the Scouse while Citeh and Chelski battle for honours. The two latter will not even notice the Mancs have slipped away while I further see Arsenal and United sharing the Europa desert of a thursday as 'manfully' as they can while ploughing away in the far east. Who needs trophies when you are playing in Vietnam during the summer respite. The hot dog men know what they are up to and Moyes like Wenger is the perfect servant for cash cowing. Cheers Simon!

  49. Stevieo

    May 10, 2013, 19:49 #34735

    Is this article for real or has a 4 year old's wish list to Father Christmas been published? So United will be in transition next season will they? Well when Arsenal go and splurge all this gunpowder you seem so confident of this summer, on another Giroud and Gervinho, and we start next season as poorly as the last two, what's the betting that you AKB's start preaching again that we need to be patient as it is Arsenal that will be in a state of transition. Just like you've told us for the last 8 years we are in a period of transition when we're being pummelled 8-2 or losing to Division 4 teams. And Mourinho will have to rebuild Chelsea? Well seeing as this Arsenal team also needs rebuilding with this gunpowder that we've obviously been saving up for when Fergie left, I think I'd have more faith in Mourinho rebuilding than Wenger shopping for more cheap French League 2 dross. By your deluded thinking that Fergie leaving opens a door to Arsenal, then by the same reckoning, Mourinho going back to Chelsea slams the door shut again.

  50. James

    May 10, 2013, 19:33 #34734

    Arsenal will only move on when Wenger goes.Your comment that Wenger has achieved the basic minimum requirement of CL qualification sums up where Wenger the clown has taken us.Who would trust Wenger in the transfer window when in the last 3 summers he has signed Chamakh Squillaci Park Santos Gervinho and Giroud.The best manager in Europe this season is available in 2 weeks Jupp Heynckes.

  51. Greg71

    May 10, 2013, 19:26 #34733

    don,t trust the owner,lost faith in the manager and cannot rely on the playing squad ,which changes first ? stuck between two rocks and a hard place or is it a rock and two hard places ! who tops the goal scoring charts in france this season ?

  52. Peter Wain

    May 10, 2013, 19:22 #34732

    One thing we will not do is buy early in the transfer window. We all know the scenario lots of paper talk some many deal (July) Early Augusts deals will be imminent and last week of August having started the season badly a couple of free transfers and a statement that it is difficult to buy players particulay better than the ones we have now. Same old same old

  53. Seven Kings Gooner

    May 10, 2013, 18:59 #34731

    Chris: The good of Arsenal and winning titles is the same thing! Serial winners like Fergie and Mourinho use any tactic in the book to give them an edge. Are you saying that you would not have wanted Ferguson as a manager because he pulled just as many tricks as "the special one".... Just ask Reyes and Howard Webb!

  54. Terry

    May 10, 2013, 18:46 #34730

    Good article by a proper gooner,not like these namby pampy whingebags who just want to be negative about everything.If Arsenal had got rid of Wenger and replaced him with Moyes folk would be going crazy on here.As for Mourinho I wouldn't want that walking ego anywhere near Arsenal,the guy has failed at the cash cow called Real Madrid so why do people think he will succeed at Arsenal.Wenger has done ok with limited resources to keep Arsenal top 4 and into the knock-out stages of Champs League in recent seasons so even though the whinger glory hunters on here would like to see him fail,lets see what he can do next season when he has money to spend.

  55. Gare Kekeke

    May 10, 2013, 18:21 #34729

    The change of managers at Man Utd won’t make a difference at The Arsenal. Wenger & the board will be still expecting FFP to be the difference, our saviour, which in my view is very naive. Simon, I can see where you are coming from about Moyes and I don’t expect him to make an instant impact at OT. After his first season yes, but next season no. Think Bob Paisley when he succeeded Bill Shankly. What I don’t believe however is that Ferguson’s trophy haul at Man Utd will be matched any manager. Man City & Chelsea are in a much stronger position than us to knock Man Utd off their f***ing perch; especially if Chelsea bring Jose Mourinho back. As for Mourinho, no way would I want him as manager of The Arsenal. I have stated many times on this site that with him there is too much theatre and he’s also too short-term. He can get good results and is tactically brilliant unlike Wenger but with him it’s all about him and nothing else. It becomes too much of a show. Yes he’s too confrontational and he thrives on it and I don’t want that at The Arsenal. But you cannot deny he’s a winner and that’s what he loves. I’m sticking with my original views on Martinez. Not good enough for The Arsenal. He’s not a winner but then that could all change. The current players at The Arsenal need a manager who’s going to drill a winning mentality into them just like Mourinho did when he first became Chelsea manager in 2004. Martinez may well preach technical football but we need a winner. Plus has anyone seen Wigan’s abysmal defending under Martinez? At least we have improved in that area. We need a manager who’s going to take European Cup football seriously and not as a money-making vehicle, a manager who will have our players compete for every trophy every year and a manager who aims to improve our standards every year and not stand still and expects rivals to fall by the wayside because of our ‘technical superiority’. I can’t see any of those things happening as long as Wenger is still the manager and with this current useless board. Big buck sponsorship deals won’t make a difference either with Wenger as manager. He’ll just maintain what we have.

  56. Chris

    May 10, 2013, 17:55 #34728

    Sorry - my last post should have said including Liam Brady a couple of MONTHS ago....

  57. stegun

    May 10, 2013, 17:49 #34727

    Opportunity is only available to those that want to grasp it. The Arsenal board we have now want the the status quo of top 4, Champions League and the income that comes with it. They can reward themselves with obscene salaries and dividends. To hell with competing. Fourth best pays well enough!

  58. Chris

    May 10, 2013, 17:42 #34726

    Stroud Green Road Boy - if we have ever definitive proof that Wenger has been financially constrained by the board in the manner many, including Liam Brady just a couple of days ago, have suggested he is being, will you come out and say what a good job he's done in difficult circumstances and recommend that he is given more money and a new contract?

  59. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 10, 2013, 17:16 #34725

    The mancs were certainly preparing for this moment alright. I wonder are we doing the same ? I'd certainly like to think so, although not with the same dread.I think many were surprised with the Moyes appointment caught out if you like with everybody thinking it would have been a big name.I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened with ourselves not the big name we'd all be talking about and want but someone low profile who would toe the party line especially if Wenger has any thing to do with it.I wouldn't bet on the mancs being in transition, not much anyway and not for long, as you've said they've been preparing for this probably for a few years now,and don't forget old red nose is still involved. The fact that fans see it as some sort of advantage says a lot about our own club and especially the Manager, that we have to wait for a manager of a rival club to retire and hope for some kind of an advantage, in the hope that ours can reassert himself and we can think about pushing on and challenging for honors again, we've had plenty of opportunities to do just that and they were never taken will it be any different this time ? even with all this extra money that's supposed to be in the transfer pot it has to be spent properly not on more duds and second raters or it'll not make any difference if the mancs are in transition or not they'll still be to strong,will he be bold enough to do it Simon ? i think we all know the answer to that, we've all been here before,there's more chance of him catching the cold.

  60. Big Andy

    May 10, 2013, 16:10 #34724

    What a stupid article! Do you really think that Arsenal under Sam Kroenke has any intention of doing anything other than trying to maximise income? The future for the club right now is more mediocrity and as little spending as possible. If the club had any ambition they would sack Wenger this summer and bring in Klopp - that would be ambitious. But don't hold your breath waiting.

  61. Chris

    May 10, 2013, 16:10 #34723

    I can't beleive that anyone who really cares about the good of Arsenal - rather than just winning titles, which is not the same thing at all - would REALLY want Mourinho as coach. A cynical, nasty, egotisical coach who leaves every club he manages on bad terms. We might not be Man U or Barca by any sretch, but if they wouldn't touch him, why should we?

  62. CanadaGooner

    May 10, 2013, 15:32 #34722

    Grass is always greener with us gooners; but in truth, with the squad we had through 1999 - 2004, we should have won piles and piles on trophies! Can we blame the guy who brought those players in? (after all he did win some trophies); or can we blame our ambition as a club, in being so happy with doubles, when we could and should have won trebles! The reality is very simple: after 8 years winning nothing, we have to approach things differently, and a new manager is well overdue. Only a moron would say otherwise

  63. Moscow Gooner

    May 10, 2013, 14:58 #34721

    Strike while the iron is hot! Quite: Wenger to emulate SAF's admirable example and move over for a younger, more driven, coach. But he won't so it's 4th place again next season - and so it goes: on and on and on and on... (I notice the usual spat of transfer rumours being pumped out this morning: it must be season ticket renewal time again. Not falling for that one this year though.)

  64. Ron

    May 10, 2013, 14:47 #34720

    All good stuff Simon, but Arsenal wont strike while the iron is hot. Theyve not the nerve, desire or the interest. Only a shock to the Clubs mundane, ordinary existence will change any approach they have. It needs a poor Season or at least missing out on that waste of space CL ( as far as it applies to Arsenal anyway)to provoke the remotest realaisation that Arsenal decline is deep rooted. Agree totally on your Moyes perspective though.

  65. Stroud Green Road Boy

    May 10, 2013, 14:41 #34719

    Simon, if/when Wenger doesn't invest in the way you suggest this summer, will you accept it's time for him to go? What I think will happen is he won't invest properly but say - as he does every close season - that the squad is 'stronger', his apologists will agree with him, and on the (not so) merry-go-round goes.

  66. Danny

    May 10, 2013, 14:40 #34718

    UNITED fans have lost a winner and a champion and we still have out perennial loser If you think, things are going TO change, then you really a ****ed up and heads in the sand.

  67. Canterbury Gooner

    May 10, 2013, 14:14 #34717

    "Moyes won nothing at Everton, bar misguided plaudits for having no budget" Sorry Simon, how then do you justify calling for ROBERTO MARTINEZ to be our next manager? That's a complete contradiction on your part- you didn't previously mention he had to use Everton as a stepping stone. Secondly, the league has been very weak for a couple of years now, but the money (and almost as much money as has been made on players has been invested) has been wasted on terrible players and that's why we haven't been able to compete, it's not a new phenomena that there's a window of opportunity and money available. That's to say nothing of the terrible coaching. Also you say that they didn't get Mourinho because "his disruptive and confrontational personality appears to have been regarded as being at odds with United’s ethos" ok that's one (and the most sensationalist) part, but more importantly, David Gill in interview said that SAF's successor would have to follow the heritage the club had of using young, even homegrown players, whereas Mourinho clearly favours buying already-made stars. He also spends relatively short periods of time at clubs, they've given Moyes SIX YEARS on his contract: why not address those key factors too? Well because this is more AKB propaganda. Make out disingenuously like now is the only chance we've had so far to spend large amounts of money and other clubs in the league aren't as strong. Don't even pinpoint how far off we are in terms of our record against these bigger, already-weakened teams, or how many deadwood players we have on the wage bill, or how many or what type of signings we need. You can say what you like about questioning Wenger since 2001, but that doesn't make you fundamentally independent-minded on the matter, or open to him being reprehensible enough to leave. No, this is just rhetorical rallying. Let's all look forward instead of back on the past 8 years.

  68. Red Member

    May 10, 2013, 14:03 #34716

    what a sadly deluded post. Kroenke does not want to make us any more competitive than we already are. when will people understand this!!!

  69. Tony Evans

    May 10, 2013, 13:45 #34715

    As always Angry and Frustrated is spot on and reflects what so many of us feel about Wenger and the way our club is being run at the moment both on and off the field.

  70. Website Editor

    May 10, 2013, 13:42 #34714

    Simon - Look at the points gap between Arsenal and Chelsea when Mourinho was there. He does not need to rebuild. He has a big enough squad to play Terry and Lampard in the games that matter and Cech is a goalkeeper. Mourinho will organise the team to play for results and win points, something Wenger needs a defence that knows what it is doing to achieve. Assuming Mourinho does return to the Bridge, all title bets are off. Now if Seven Kings had his way, we might be talking a very different story. Arsenal should have sacked Wenger after Blackburn and courted a manager that can coach a team to titles, as he has done at every club he has been at. And for those that argue he would bring dull football, have you been enjoying the recent winning run? Sometimes in football, you just have to dig in and establish some foundations. The entertainment can follow.

  71. Angry & Frustrated

    May 10, 2013, 13:08 #34713

    That last sentence about now being the time to act and for Arsenal to be bold is correct, but not in the way you envisage Simon. In other words, now is the time to sack Wenger. He will always favour style over substance, which is why we have won sweet F A these last 8 years. He only becomes slightly more pragmatic when the final third of the season comes around trying to scramble into the fourth placed trophy position (what an insult that imaginary trophy is to us long time Gooners). By then, we our long since out of the title race, eliminated in the domestic cups and way out of our depth in the knockout phase of the Champ League. Even were he to do what you suggest (highly unlikely) he would simply buy more clones of what we already have and continue to disregard the defensive side of his team until that final third comes along again, meaning the status quo will simply continue. As a side note would you seriously trust Wenger today to buy the right type of players this team is crying out for? I know I don't, and hence the time is indeed now to be bold, and sack the very guy who is holding us all back, with his out of date, out of touch naive single tactic, coupled to his mentally feeble players. Get someone in who is hungry for actual success, and not the imaginary success for which he is somehow rewarded so incredibly handsomely! Dare I say it someone like David Moyes whose hunger for actual success must be burning inside of him, instead of our manager who is remember on record stating he would happily take finishing second for the next 20 years!!!!!!!!

  72. Ronster

    May 10, 2013, 13:07 #34712

    The notion by some fans that the likes of Moyes is not a suitable candidate to manage Arsenal and the likes of Martinez would need to cut his teeth at a club like Everton before being considered reflects the arrogance of Arsene Wenger.Our presence in the Champions League has not given the club an aura on the continent that would demand a manager with an exceptional CV.All that competition has done is line the pockets of many questionable employees of Arsenal Football Club.Indeed we are far closer to Everton with their 9 League Titles,5 FA Cups and 1 European Trophy than the likes of Real Madrid,AC Milan,Barcelona,Bayern Munich,Liverpool,Manchester United,Juventus etc.In reality Wenger has not got the club anywhere near those European giants in his 17 years.To pin your hopes on United losing their mojo is also shortsighted and misguided.Mark my words before Sir Alex departs Carrington for the final time he will have been in the faces of every one of his players demanding they give their all and more for David Moyes and Manchester United.Sir Alex is an astute operator.Unlike Sir Matt Busby he will keep his distance but unlike Wenger,David Moyes will be humble enough to discreetly pick his brains when the need arises.

  73. Wombledin

    May 10, 2013, 12:58 #34711

    Unfortunately Fergie's departure will only strengthen the Board and Kroenke's resolve to spend feck all again, as getting into the top four, which is Arsenal's sole ambition under it's American X-box owner, will be even easier if the expected transition wobbles under Moyes occur. The owner's don't give a flying feck about winning the damn tournament, face it, it's all about the $$$$$$$, nothing else. Lady Nina and Usmanov are spot on about that.

  74. Skooner

    May 10, 2013, 12:55 #34710

    No doubt there is an opportunity Simon, but there have been plenty of opportunities in recent years that AFC have not taken advantage of. More money to spend? Haven't we spent something like £100m in transfer fees in the last 2 years already? It's hardly brought in top quality. To take advantage of it we need to break our current "socialist" wage structure otherwise we will never get the players we need. We also need a different coaching approach. For example, Wenger has long admitted he takes no notice of who we are playing. Why are we different in that respect compared to everyone else? Fergie employs someone to just analyse the opposition and brief the squad accordingly. I don't see Wenger/the club changing any of the above so another opportunity will slip by.

  75. danluvsafc

    May 10, 2013, 12:49 #34709

    Simon "everythings rosey in the garden" Rose. Wenger is an inept coach!!! END OF!!!!

  76. Seven Kings Gooner

    May 10, 2013, 12:31 #34707

    Yes Simon strike while the iron is hot - get Mourinho in and shake our team out of this 8 year nightmare!

  77. Dan

    May 10, 2013, 12:17 #34706

    WENGER OUT!!

  78. Reality Check

    May 10, 2013, 11:49 #34705

    Arsenal will choke V Wigan and get bullied by Newcastle. 2 draws and 5th place and it will be down to nothing other than a lack of investment in proper goalkeepers, defenders, a bank balance before trophy cabinet culture. get ready for the wilderness which is Thursday night euros and sunday premier match

  79. anti-wenger

    Sep 09, 2012, 15:40 #26254

    do not under-estimate the Anfield performance of the Arsenal, the team did quite well. it took 2 blatant defensive errors for City to earn a point from this same L'pool team, so going there to dominate and win shouldn't be taken lightly.

  80. kris

    Sep 08, 2012, 15:09 #26250

    fair play to the whole team as much as anything they have knuckled down and shown that concentration goes a long way... diaby did look like the player that showed glimpses of his quality when he has had an injury free run (not that often). he scored for france last night running from midfield and although only finland you can only beat whats in front of you... lets give him a chance and get behind him hes not a patrick V defensivly but going forward he looks like a carbon copy running from midfield.... giroud does look a little off the pace when it comes to the speed of the premiership but i seem to remember dennis "the god" bergkamp taking a few games to get into the pace of the game here.... (i am not saying giroud is anywhere near the ice mans class but time to adapt is needed!!)

  81. Ron

    Sep 04, 2012, 12:40 #26175

    Mikeymike2711 - Good to see youve sampled the home of the mythical 'atmosphere'. There's been none there for donkeys years fella. Its the longest running myth going. Is there any atmosphere at any ground though? We all know there isnt. Wolves was OK last season, Everton occasionally. Stoke is another mythical atmosphere. The rest? Sterile, all of them.

  82. mikeymike2711

    Sep 04, 2012, 10:59 #26169

    A good, solid away performance, but no more. I was there On Sunday, and was never comfortable until injury time. We did ride our luck, and met a team who seemed short of self belief - perfect opponents. As has been mentioned, I feel Southampton will give us a game on Saturday week. As for Anfield, on my first visit, what a let down - no atmosphere, £45 for a view of 1 goal, but most disturbingly, 3rd world conditions in the heat generated by the crowd and low roof over us. The roof began to form condensation in the first half, which duly dropped on us in the 2nd. Shocking.

  83. Ali

    Sep 04, 2012, 6:45 #26164

    Diaby has played well in the last three matches and hopefully if he stays fit will get better. He just needs to get stronger physically and he is a player in the mould of Yaya Toure, Viera and Gerrard.

  84. Joe S.

    Sep 04, 2012, 4:45 #26162

    The discussion should start as MRMROD pointed out after the Chelsea game. A key test for me is how will the team respond after they go a goal down. Will there be a Plan B or do they go into a blind panick? At the same time I'm pleased with the way Gibbs and Jenkinson have helped to hold the fort. Fingers crossed there because we know they were both on the physio's table for long periods last year. I like Jenkinson. He'll never be described as having silkin skills but the lack of athleticism is deceptive. He is an old fashioned English style player full of grit and effort.

  85. Trevor

    Sep 04, 2012, 4:13 #26161

    Is it any wonder that our improved midfield play, and the resultant increase in creativity, has come about in the absence of Ramsey in the attacking role? I think not.

  86. Jude J.

    Sep 04, 2012, 3:04 #26160

    Brilliant all-around performance. This is a good group of players, who seem to be starting to gel and growing in confidence together. The return of Jack, Tomas and Bacary will address the much needed depth we'll certainly need once the games start to come thick and fast. Giroud will come good. He's putting himself in good positions and appears willing to put in a shift. Glad to see the manager making a statement with Feo. Those uncommitted to the cause can enjoy the view from the bench.

  87. Gare Kekeke

    Sep 04, 2012, 1:34 #26158

    Credit to Wenger and the players for a good performance and an excellent result. Good to see that the defence is solid yet again. As you have mentioned Kevin, why did it take Wenger so long to address an all-important area? The big plus at the back for me is Vermaelen. No longer inclined by the manager to attack as well as defend, he is defending with purpose and efficiency. Steve Bould influenced maybe? If he has to score fewer goals for us, so be it. Watching his compatriot at Man city should give him an idea or two on how a centre back is really supposed to operate, not the way Wenger wants them too i.e. Djourou. I can’t remember Vermaelen playing better for us. Although the captaincy must have been an influence on him too. Although not getting carried away, my hope is that we can build on this with some tough fixtures on the horizon. We’ve made better starts in recent years and still won f*ck all so caution is required. Good performances too from Diaby & Arteta who is still wasted as a DM in my view. If it’s true what you are saying about Song Kevin then good riddance. I always suspected that some players would not take too kindly to Steve Bould’s methods as they had been to an extent been given an easy ride by Wenger in recent years. One last thing Kevin, well done on giving the correct information with regards to Jan Vertonghen a few months ago. Some Gooners doubted the information you were given but you were proven to be right. I just hope the rumours I and other Gooners are hearing on Jack Wilshire are not true. Up The Arsenal!

  88. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 03, 2012, 22:15 #26156

    GoonerRon see what you mean although the defence and team as a whole played well i'm not getting carried away with the clean sheets as we haven't been overly tested yet there's plenty of shoe in's absolute shoe in's chezz definitely rosicky yes djourou ? will worry about the long term sick notes when they eventually come back apart from kos on the bench yesterday i wouldnt put to much faith in who was beside him.I still think a couple of injuries to key players could leave us short especially if we have to call on just the shoe in's but hopefully we'll never have to find out.

  89. Wombledin

    Sep 03, 2012, 20:57 #26152

    A hugely satisfying result that is more of a relief than anything, but this is not a great Liverpool team by any stretch. Results against Citeh and the chavs next will start to instal some real belief. But a few key areas and our soft underbelly is exposed yet again with a real lack of depth in the squad. If Giroud or Arteta get injured long-term then that's probably our season over. But for now there is room for optimism as long as our first players stay fit.

  90. CanadaGooner

    Sep 03, 2012, 19:02 #26145

    Kev, are we talking about the same game?! Liverpool are not the test we need to assess Bouldy or our defense. Suarez isnt a scorer and they are a struggling side, but even so, we still showed a lot of our usual shakey defending and Suarez should have got a penalty, which could have changed the outcome of that match. i dont want to be too pessimistic, but i think we have to be careful how optimistic we get after 3 games (one was away at stoke, where a draw is always good; home to sunderland, which we should win but we drew, and away to a down and out team like liverpool, any away win is always good). home to soton to follow, and if we hammer them 5 - 0 and keep a clean sheet, i would say there is reason to be optimistic. for now, the jury's still out

  91. Ron

    Sep 03, 2012, 18:08 #26142

    Richard S - Not sure RVP wd still be with Arsenal. Hes earning a stack more now. Hes human. Hes gone to fill his boots with Utds cash (who can blame him?) and to be frank, one win v the worst Liverpool team since before Bill Shankly went there in about 1960 ish wouldnt have him enthusing that Arsenal are a better bet in the trophy stakes either. The sudden turn in some posters attitudes is staggering esp on the Diaby front! Once we ve beaten a few decent teams is the time to enthuse. Liverpool really are a great big mess, it has to be said.

  92. A comment on Diaby

    Sep 03, 2012, 18:02 #26141

    Diaby's performance was very similar to his performance at Anfield last season. ie. he was excellent, only this time he didn't limp off the pitch after a very limited time on it. It really is a question of the biggest 'if' in football. If by some miracle of science he stays fit, then people should see past what it is they may not like about him and realise he can be a very useful player.

  93. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Sep 03, 2012, 17:57 #26140

    Tallest and best aerial ball winners lined up at equal spaces along the six yard line when defending opposition corners, ready to mark and attack space? Check. Tallest defender positioned near post for flick - on at our corners? Check. Spare defender pivoting and providing cover on each side when required? Check. Centre halves alert to mopping up spills by keeper? Check. The magnificent boys & girls in the away end singing the "Stevie Stevie Bould" song during the second half, after the umpteenth no nonsense clearance? Check. Whatever happens for the rest of the season, at least I've been able to relive my fantasies about the defending of the 1990/91 team - I was one headed goal from a flicked - on corner or free kick away from total orgasmarama. Just a word on Diaby's performance - I agree that he played well, safe in the knowledge that he had Arteta nailing it down behind him. Surely that has to be a positive influence on a forward - thinking midfielder's ability to perform. Maybe another indication that the overall team balance is better than previous seasons.

  94. pwaypete

    Sep 03, 2012, 17:57 #26139

    don't get carried away with the result, until we scored the 1st goal this was a match between 2 poor teams with us having the players who can score being the difference.

  95. GoonerRon

    Sep 03, 2012, 17:15 #26133

    Maguiresbridge gooner - you talk about the injuries kicking in, but we've kept clean sheets at Stoke and Liverpool without 4 absolute shoo in first team players.

  96. akin

    Sep 03, 2012, 16:07 #26129

    An unbeaten run? A possibility. Another 35 clean sheets? You're a joker. Altogether, good and factual analysis.

  97. Gooner SA

    Sep 03, 2012, 15:50 #26127

    Great victory and the team worked hard to close down Liverpool as well. 'He has admitterd that there is more chance of young British talent remaining, so gradually, more have been given their chance'. With the exceptions of Henri Lansbury and Kyle Bartley to the team's detriment :(

  98. MRMROD

    Sep 03, 2012, 15:22 #26126

    A decent albeit cautious article. I was there yesterday and Bouldie appears to have made a real difference. We looked solid and less like a Keegan-esque Cavalier Newcastle team and more like a difficult to beat Georgie Graham Arsenal side. Moreover I thought our bench looked strong too and with Wilshire, Sagna, Szczney all to come back from injury, the signs are good. However, I think we should pick this conversation up at the end of September when we will have played Man City and Chelsea!

  99. billthered

    Sep 03, 2012, 15:19 #26125

    So it looks as if Steve Bould has been given the green light to work on the defensive side of the team and what a result thus far.In the last few years I have never seen any of our back four with their hands in the air,yes we all remember that dont we.And I dont know about any of you but is'nt it a welcome change to see someone with a presence on the bench and not a nodding dog.And I know it is early days but so far so good.One last thing the next evolvement from big Steve should be getting up from his seat and giving the likes of Pullis,bluenose, Pardew and all the other idiots who think their hard men a reality check on hardness then we'll know we have a true number two.

  100. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 03, 2012, 15:13 #26124

    Good piece Kev the reason we've had to wait so long for the deficiency to be addressed is because arsene thought he knew best clearly bouldy has proved otherwise.The keeper situation still isn't resolved regardless of three clean sheets which is more down to the defence even with having to close your eyes everytime mertesacker went near a liverpool player or made a tackle in the box pens have been given for less maybe having someone like suarez beside you didn't help who would dive if you farted beside him.As for the keeper he looks nervous and doesn't fill you with confidence something he really hasn't shown himself he hasn't been fully tested yet.Although not the finished article himself hopefully chezz can stay fit.Sicknote has surprised us all and had a very good game yesterday it's early days yet of course but lets hope he goes on a run so we can see why arsene has stuck by him for so long.Up front things certainly clicked and a good display with two goals for their efforts as you say liverpool are rebuilding but it's never an easy place to go.The team as a whole looked good yesterday and it's good to see but what happens when injuries kick in ? squad wise we are still very light.I agree kev arsene has had a reality check especially where defending is concerned as can be seen already with bouldys input.

  101. DW Thomas

    Sep 03, 2012, 14:46 #26123

    You must say Diaby looks a fine player, easily the best of both teams yesterday. Cazorla and Pod look class as well. The team work ethic was the best thing for me. No more Denilson's jogging back while the counter passes him by. We still lack much depth though. Can the players on the field really push for a title? We can only wait and see. No buying at least a couple more for the bench is worrying. The AKBs will be talking like we won the league I am sure. But guess who is next up after Southhampton? That will be the real test. I sure do feel happy for the Frenchman, Diaby that is. Many people slagged him off for injuries out of his control. It is obvious he is a different player when fit. Perhaps Bould is coaching his dallying out of him too. We know Wenger isn't. His close control is impeccable, his runs amazing. I have never said this, but I won't miss Cesc anymore if Diaby continues his improvement and Santi stays fit. Times they may be a changing...

  102. Big Andy

    Sep 03, 2012, 14:41 #26122

    Excellent article, I agree with every word of it. I really enjoyed that win yesterday, but I think that we should all be realistic: we're playing for fourth. We just on't possess enough quality to even think about challenging for the title. It's a shame that some of that fifty million wasn't spent on a player like Clint Dempsey, someone who could nick a vital goal if we were in a bit of trouble. Or maybe a quality defensive player who could provide cover for the back four. But that's Wenger.

  103. johnnyhawleyloovinggooner

    Sep 03, 2012, 14:17 #26120

    fair comment,however i suggest gooners read the business section of last weeks Sunday Times on Man U shares before comparing us to them.

  104. JJ Williams

    Sep 03, 2012, 13:53 #26119

    I agree the midfield trio were immense. Diaby in particular. he is doing the job Alex Song should have been doing, and now we have Cazorla doing the job he wanted to do. Upfront we will be a real force once Giroud starts to score or as an alternative we could use Wallcott as a central striker. The only slight worry was Jenkinson, however once he stopped attempting those cross-field passes he was OK.

  105. frank

    Sep 03, 2012, 13:27 #26118

    the best thing about yesterdays game at anfield was I did not feel anxious when liverpool attacked us. how many times did young jenkinson make brilliant tackles against a much quicker player in sterling. gibbs was brilliant for most of the game and the pairing of verm and mert looked solid as a rock. there is still alot to come from the new sighnings. I just hope that the team dont let up and they keep working on there defending. diaby and cazorla were amazing and arteta is ten times a better (holding midfielder) than song ever was. giroud needs time but you cant say he doesnt put himself about.

  106. GoonerRon

    Sep 03, 2012, 13:04 #26117

    It was as good an away performance at a top team as I can remember from us in a long time. I'm not getting carried away but I am very encouraged by our start to the season. Without being wise after the fact, I mentioned in the comments section of another article in pre-season that we shouldn't under-estimate how much better the goals against column could be without buying new players, but via renewed defensive coaching of Steve Bould, Mertesacker having a settling in period, Gibbs and Jenkison being young and getting better with games, and having players in wide positions who are versed at protecting the full back and defending from the front. Most/all of those have been evident so far this season, and particularly yesterday when Podolski gave a stunning all round performance of a 'wide forward.' I saw a stat last night that showed we have attempted the most tackles in the league so far this season - testament to the work on shape, closing down, stopping crosses etc. Anyone dare say the jury is still out on Cazorla?

  107. Tony Evans

    Sep 03, 2012, 12:31 #26116

    Much better organised at the back and whilst I am obviously delighted at this it does beg the question why the hell as it taken 7 or 8 years to drill defensive responsibilities in to the team? Wenger seems to be learning some harsh lessons: project youth was a pipe dream and all out attacking football with little regard for defence an obvious banana skin. Of couse he would never admit publically that he got it wrong though. The lesson he has yet to learn is that squads win prizes and this season could well fall apart again when key players are injured because there is little or no quality in the back-up players. I am sure Wenger would beg to differ and I hope he is right but we have seen it happen so many times in the past and I am not convinced.

  108. Arsene Wenger’s belief in his players

    Sep 03, 2012, 12:10 #26115

    One of the more composed and balanced things on here for ages, and I agree with most of it, but you can't start with praising Diaby (and have a photo of him with the sracastic caption "At last") and then later in the article claim that Wenger's belief in his players, his protection and nurturing of them and his loyalty has now been superceded by a desire to go with more experience and reliable professionals. If he didn't have that loyalty and belief then he would have given up on Diaby years ago, and us Gooners would not had the pleasure of watching him strut around Anfield yesterday.

  109. Ikechukwu

    Sep 03, 2012, 12:09 #26114

    Oh dear Kevin. You're a smart lad but you are being sucked in: LESSONS HAVE NOT BEEN LEARNT. That is why Wenger posted a profit in the window! What do you mean 'buying more experience'? He bought Giroud, a guy who has zero CL experience and never even kicked a Europa League ball! Just because he plays in France!!! Wenger has not learnt a thing. The minute Diabolical Diaby gets his customary injury, watch the sh** hit the fan. Wilshere? Have been hearing he's coming back since 1995 LOL. The worst of the lot is that an injury to either Podolski or Chesney (who is average anyways); and Arsenal will have two donkeys from France up front in Chamakh and Giroud, who will surely comete to see who can miss more sitters! Oh and Flapianski or Mannone in goal if loudmouth Pole is injured. Arsenal are 2 injuries away from being a seriously ineffective team. Thankfully, we rarely get injuries, our medical department is reliable and the manager has made contingency plans for us in ca.... OH.

  110. Theo Jensen

    Sep 03, 2012, 12:01 #26113

    The incredible thing was that we actually played a compact defensive style at times. It was like a technical and imaginative way of parking the bus. I think that tightness at the back is what has allowed Mertesacker to flourish. We looked vaguely like Athletico Madrid at times, letting the opposition keep the ball while we sat there defensively solid. Last season we were all pretty much on edge every time possession was turned over and this is just three games in. I don't know how many of you saw MOTD 2 analysis, but I echo the sentiments of Hansen who said we're playing the best football in the league. It really is of a far more technical mould than any other team in the EPL right now. The disappointment was Giroud- although his movement for the Podolski goal and the chance he squandered was excellent, he looks out of his depth. Sure he'll need more time, but he doesn't have any increase in pace, much vision or ability to bring others in to the game at the moment. I wonder if we should play Walcott there since although he is not exactly an ideal lone striker, he would at least create some difficulties for the other team's centre backs with his pace and movement.

  111. HowardL

    Sep 03, 2012, 11:54 #26112

    A nicely balanced review Kevin I for one am optimistic

  112. Croker

    Sep 03, 2012, 11:45 #26111

    Funny old game, football.I was foaming at the mouth when the transfer window closed without any reinforcements having been signed but was purring with satisfaction at the cohesion of the Team at Anfield come Sunday and the performance of our 'new' signing, Abou Diaby I think he is called. I think you have summed up the frustrations and delights ahead for us this season, very nicely Kevin.

  113. WHL87

    Sep 03, 2012, 11:36 #26110

    I have been very encouraged by the performances this season to date and thought we were particularly impressive yesterday - Jenkinson and Mertesacker were sloppy with their distribution in the first half but sharpened up and I thought we dominated the game. Regarding transfer fund surpluses, I reall;y think some people on here need to wake up and smell the coffee. Even if we do have £50M in the bank, what does that buy you? A £20-25M player is going to want £150-200K a week in wages - over a 5 yaer contract, there won't be any of that £50M left. That's not to mention what current players wage demands will become should we go down that route - it's unsustainable and I think the stance we're taking with Walcott is 100% correct. He's not worth more than £75K per week based on performances to date. Football generally needs a reality check. It will come and when it does, we will be well positioned to take advantage. I would rather we did it the "right" way, by building it responsibly whilst paying off the debt on our ground, than attempting to buy it like Chelski and Citeh. Lastly, fair play to the travelling support yesterday. We need EVERYONE to get behind the team like that at HOME.

  114. Its up for grabs now

    Sep 03, 2012, 11:31 #26109

    Early days as you said Kevin, but if its Bould's influence that is evident after only 3 games, why oh why did Wenger not sort out this glaring achilles heel years ago? Had he done so, not only am I convinced we would have won trophies, but in all probability RVP would still be with us, and possibly even Fabregas. It's a case of shutting the gate after the horse has bolted (RVP etc). In addition the fans would not have been split so badly as we currently are. It makes no sense at all, and Wenger is still badly culpable here, as he was to stubborn and blindly loyal to make the needed changes (Pat Rice) which he should have done when it became obvious that our back-line was always going to prevent us winning anything. I still don't think we will challenge for the big trophies, but hopefully the goals against column will at least be massively better than last season, which at least gives you a better fighting chance!

  115. RichardS

    Sep 03, 2012, 11:24 #26108

    A good, balanced read as ever, Kevin. I was delighted with yesterday's result. It felt good to see our team back to winning ways. Our midfield produced an outstanding display. Whilst Diaby rightly received most of the praise, I remain skeptical as to whether he can continue this form. His long term fitness remains a constant cloud. For me, Arteta was superb. He reminds me of Gilberto, orchestrating the midfield quietly and without fuss. Personally, he was my MOTM. One thing that struck me watching yesterday's game was the spirit amongst the team. There were plenty of congrats and back slapping throughout the game and many of these were for vital interceptions and strength in defense. This is encouraging. I watched the Soton v Man U game and thought that Southampton looked a fine team. RVP saved them, but it was close. I think they will give us a tough time on Sat 15th and we will need to play well to get the 3 points. I have a feeling that the way we set up will help us when we are playing away, but I wonder if we may struggle at home, when we have to be more offensive. For that reason I think that Chelsea at home will be tougher than City away. If we play in a similar fashion to the Liverpool game, I think that we can give City a tough match. Watching RVP yesterday was really difficult. He bailed out Utd like he did for us so many times last season. He really is world class. Can you imagine if he played for us yesterday....it could have been 5 or 6 nil. I am so gutted that he left. I can't find it in my heart to despise him. If only our club showed more ambition, he would still be in the red and white.

  116. scorp_nib

    Sep 03, 2012, 11:16 #26107

    are we back? lets hope we are

  117. Rob

    Sep 03, 2012, 11:10 #26106

    Gerat performance. And Bouldy is clearly impacting positively from the start. He may well be our most important signing of the season. But I still think the failure to add on transfer deadline day, was a big mistake and will come back to haunt us. It still looks like fourth place at best but hopefully a much closer fourth, rather than a distant one.

  118. Fishpie

    Sep 03, 2012, 11:02 #26105

    Just wanted to agree with you Kevin. That was a very fine performance by the team and particularly impressive one by Diaby. I'd just like to apologise to him in fact because I wrote a comment on this site recently in which I likened Diaby to a schoolkid who looks good at football on the playground in the break doing all kinds of tricks and twists but put him on a pitch in a real match and it's unproductive and of no consequence. Well judging by yesterday, I got that badly wrong. Hope he has found a new level and hope he stays fit to enjoy his football.

  119. Dave

    Sep 03, 2012, 10:39 #26103

    Much needed victory, but more challenging games are to come. This Liverpool squad is the poorest that I have ever seen in a long time. Remember when they had the likes of Xabi Alonso, Mascherano, Hyypia, etc. Now they got guys like Spearing, Shelvey and Downing? Good to get running, but those damn international breaks couldn't come at a worse time. Hope everyone comes back alright.

  120. Ron

    Sep 03, 2012, 9:59 #26101

    Diaby looked good as Gerrard is past it and was fast asleep half the time resting his tired old bones. Liverpools midfield didnt exist and just looked to get close to Cazorla leaving Diaby to do his circuslike swivels, back heels and turns as he liked. Hes not suddenly a great player. Hes had cameos like this before and never follows through. Decent win, but nothing to go overboard about. Far from it.

  121. Gary

    Sep 03, 2012, 9:50 #26100

    Great result.Team played like a team not individuals.Defence organised even with dodgy Manonne behind them.And the cherry on the top Mr 100k a week Walcott didnt play one minute.Should have him sold last week no future at the club.Only downside is Giroud does not look like a natural finisher he got away with it yesterday though unlike Sunderland.Now the reality check were we that good or Liverpool really poor.the City and Chelsea games will tell us more