Lacking Depth

Online Ed: Home defeat in Champions League



Lacking Depth

Santos: Defender?


Remember Liverpool away? Southampton at home? The sun shone and optimism was in the air. The team was coming together, the defence looked better, people were looking forward to improvement this season. An actual title challenge was even talked about. Then what happened? Out went Szczesny, Gibbs and Diaby and now Oxlade-Chamberlain. In came Mannone, Santos, Coquelin and Ramsey. And the conclusion is… below the first choice players the squad is wafer thin. Who are these players? What have they achieved? It’s hardly Edu, Sylvain Wiltord and Kanu is it? Or dear old Oleg Luzhny.

So the policy of parsimony is bearing fruit. Who needs to splash the cash for Vertonghen when you can have Andre Santos? Don’t buy Hugo Lloris because if might impact on the first choice keeper’s confidence. Arsenal looked ragged against Schalke, who were fully worthy of their win, and played much better football. They could have scored more. Andre Santos was exposed time and again at left back – a side of Arsenal’s defence that opposition teams have focussed upon even when Gibbs is in the team. As at Norwich (and I am writing without the benefit of having seen any TV replays except during the game on the stadium screen) it appeared he played the opposition onside for the first goal. Assuming Gibbs has not recovered and Bacary Sagna is now fit, the latter should be drafted in to play left back on Saturday. He has the number 3 shirt anyway.

Up front, the Gunners were devoid of any creativity, limited easily by the visitors. Apparently they had five goal attempts in the 90 minutes, with just the one on target. Woeful. On the back of the Norwich performance, this was especially shocking. Not only is the quality lacking –players such as Cazorla and Podolski suddenly turn mediocre when the team is weakened – but there is nothing in the way of hunger or will to win. No-one seems to be busting a gut. Where was the reaction after Norwich? The Gervinho debate should surely be over after yesterday evening. He’s hopeless. A percentage footballer, like Walcott. Put him on the pitch enough and you will get something from him by the law of averages, but half the time he will beat himself. When an opportunity presents itself, he doesn’t go for it, but prefers to cut back and beat a man he has already got past. Why?

The only bright spots I can recall were Mertesacker trying to lead by example, and the late substitute Gnabry, who looked as if he should have entered the fray much earlier, arguably in place of Gervinho at half time with Podolski switching to the middle. It could not have been any worse.

Hopefully, the timing of this display, and the mass exit of the majority of the crowd when the visitors scored their second goal, will impact somehow on Stan Kroenke, who sat in the directors’ box next to Peter Hill-Wood. He will have witnessed that the man he has stated has a job for life may be able to make profit, but can’t produce a trophy-challenging team anymore. The club look to be in decline, with many comparing it to the early 1980s and the fag end of Terry Neill’s days. We are seeing the too many rank bad performances, minus motivation, season after season. Somehow, the stadium is still selling out, but more and more season ticket holders are simply not bothering to show up. Certainly, the accounts demonstrate that the club are finding the corporate boxes a harder sell. Surely, that will have to spread to the ‘cheaper’ seats (and I use the word in the sense of comparison!). And the day Arsenal fail to qualify for the Champions League has to be getting nearer. One senses that this season, the club may be reliant on Spurs choking as they did last time around to secure fourth spot.

The AGM takes place this morning. The only questions the chairman will answer are likely to be those which have been pre-submitted, with none taken from the floor, and as last year, it is difficult to envisage Arsene Wenger accepting any questions after his speech, if he even decides to turn up this year – and remember, he is under no obligation to. The 2012 AGM was notable for its fractious mood and catcalling. It wasn’t a pleasant atmosphere, and after the last two matches, the knowledge that the club are sitting on between £50-£60 million unused in the player trading account is not going to improve feelings. So although there will be an attempt at controlling the discontent, it would be naïve to think that it can be totally contained. Of course with Kroenke holding over 50% of the shares, it’s all meaningless. He is the man taking the decisions. One he must be bold enough to take is that the current manager will not be offered an extension to his contract. Arsene Wenger has money he could have spent to improve matters on the field, but his refusal to pay the going rate means players such as the two Schalke goalscorers last night end up plying their trade elsewhere. Would you rather have Huntelaar or Chamakh in the squad? Affelay or Gervinho?

QPR are without a win this season and visit on Saturday. Can you imagine? There is perhaps a chink of light. A few more defeats between now and the end of November could make the manager’s position untenable. The board would have trouble extending his stay if the season did collapse completely. Many have acknowledged for a while now that Wenger’s powers are waning. Perhaps it would be best for everybody if the board acknowledged that and we could all move on. At least try something different, as this is only working financially at present. The idea of a trophy seems very, very distant right now, because squads win trophies, and the last two matches have shown that Arsenal’s isn’t deep enough. Scratch the surface and there ain’t much below. Just paying players huge amounts of money does not make them good. Motivation and organisation can make them better, but there doesn’t seem to be too much of that around at the moment.

I’ll end with some texts received yesterday evening…

“Watching on a dodgy stream but Ramsey’s Hollywood passes, Gervinho’s dive, poor defending and sloppiness all too clear.”

“No pride, no effort, no clue. The expected response to the no-show at Norwich. Simply indefensible.”

“Will the last AKB in the building please turn out the light”

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101
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  1. YAW

    Nov 08, 2013, 7:55 #41496

    Good talk doctor Wenger and i no you've prove your critise wrong and the doubting tomas's will sure see arsenal lifting up the EPL and the Champions league troupiers and they will no that arsene wenger is the best coach in the world.please do well to give us luis suarez.

  2. BADARSE

    Nov 06, 2013, 19:29 #41374

    @ken, there must be a lot of fools down at the Palace then, because I bet they are taking a hell of a lot of notice of where they are after ten games.

  3. thatsimonrose

    Nov 06, 2013, 9:53 #41350

    Just to mention: I don't believe that the media hate Arsenal or especially have it in for us. They quite like Arsenal, because we largely play good football and there is always the promise of better. I just believe that the media do not find Arsenal convincing, largely as we haven't turned promise into silverware for a while now. Do well till January and sign a striker, the media will be convinced.

  4. Ken

    Nov 06, 2013, 7:34 #41341

    We are the ten game champions.Where is the trophy? when is the bus parade? has Wenger signed that 10 year contract yet?.Only a fool would take any notice on the first 10 games.In 1997/98 we were 6th at Xmas.And we won the double.In 2003 and 08 we blew huge leads.A lot can happen 28 games still to play

  5. N4

    Nov 05, 2013, 23:28 #41340

    Which ever way you look at it whether Wenger is doing well or Ozil or Ramsey or even (I would not sign him) Flamini....but if after 10 games we have 25 points to me it's still early days...this should be the norm for a club like Arsenal and it's about time too as it's been long and well overdue for us to have a decent start in years....! It's good to get excited but I have my feet well on the ground!

  6. Peter Hughes

    Nov 05, 2013, 22:05 #41339

    Good article. Is there anyone out there who would not have taken the offer of 25pts in the first ten games? Last season it took nineteen games to get past that mark. Whatever the result against United it will not decide anything. We have two wins against the other so called top five teams. Three more wins against them in eight games is probably the minimum required to challenge seriously for the title. That is possible with this team. As the article says the new year will soon be upon us & twenty games will have been played. We will also have reached half way of matches played against the top five. I hope Liverpool go on a bad run because Suarez will cement our credentials as challengers if we are near the top come the new year. We will be frightening to play against. The quality balls Suarez will get from our players he cannot fail to score a hatfull of goals. I hate his diving but we all loved Pires & he went down just as easily. Lets not forget after our one defeat against Villa that the ref was withdrawn for the next weeks games.

  7. GoonerRon

    Nov 05, 2013, 21:41 #41338

    @ Ron - good to hear from you. I guess I take your point to an extent, although both Podolski and Walcott have consistently played 30-40 games per season in their senior careers so perhaps "terrible track record" is a bit harsh? With what I'd say are reasonable injury records we do find ourselves in an unlucky position that they have both been unavailable for 5-6 weeks at the same time.

  8. Ron

    Nov 05, 2013, 21:03 #41337

    Gare K. - excellent post matey. The 'theyve got it in for us' notion has always been Wengers forte. That 2008 team did implode via its mental brittleness and Adebayor was on his last legs by February (and RVP being unfit in all fairness) as you say and he used the Eduardo stuff to mask his own managerial cock ups, while he indulged that w----r Gallas instead of sacking him as left the field at Bham. His P45 would have been stuck so far up his chelsea back side,it wd have been tangled in his tonsils had i have been his boss that day. Wenger is a typical spoilt child. When things go awry its always somebody else's fault and they cry like stuffed pigs until people listen to them and just agree to shut them up. Dare i say it, but its a common french trait. I worked there for a 2 plus year spell in the early 90s. Lovely country wasted on sulkers! Old Trafford in the 50th game was a robbery and probably a 'fixed' game if the truth be ever known in 04, we all know it, but what did he do? sulked and contemplated his navel and allowed his team to do the same instead of using it to bolster and unify his players and make them say 'f--k the manure ran corrupt system, we ll win it anyway!

  9. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 05, 2013, 20:41 #41336

    BADARSE, i forgot to add, yes if we're still there or there abouts come Jan and Giroud among others are still on their feet, we will be running with what we've got.

  10. Gare K

    Nov 05, 2013, 20:29 #41335

    It’s important that at the very least, we maintain our current points gap at the top of the league. Any cheap points dropped over the next few weeks and our rivals would sniff blood because the bottom line is that Arsenal teams’ post-2004 has a mental fragility. I seem to recall us being five points clear at the top in February 2008 with 12 games to go only for us to decline. Personally, I feel we fell out of contention for the league that season for these factors: 1) certain players were overused (Fabregas, Hleb & Adebayor to name but a few) and in the end tiredness got to them as Wenger did not utilise the squad properly; 2) the injuries had started to bite and the squad was exposed for lacking sufficient depth and experience and 3) poor mental strength (Wenger’s favourite phrase). The reaction to Eduardo’s injury that in truth was nothing more than a squad player was petulant and immature. Instead of rallying round the then new-boy, Wenger and the players played the “everyone has got in for us” line and a lot of Gooners (me included for a short time) fell for it hook, line and sinker. To maintain our current and pleasing position, Wenger and the players have to remain focused, get the job done per game and cut out any complacency. Wenger also has to fully use his squad in the way that he didn’t in 2007/08 to prevent fatigue in the players. As for potential transfers in January, I don’t think Wenger will sign anyone. He’ll probably point to some of the walking wounded to come back as ‘new signings’ and could be prepared to wait until the summer window to potentially add to the squad. But its youthful nature could mean any new arrivals would mainly be raw, untapped potential rather than the finished article. But we see shall. Up The Arsenal!

  11. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 05, 2013, 20:28 #41334

    BADARSE, yes there was a time when it was an honor to play for your country and to be fair it probably still is as far as the younger players coming up now are concerned anyway, as the 100k a week man keeps telling us, not the older ones unless there's a world cup around the corner. And your right there was a time when it was a great boast to be able to say we have internationals playing for us especially English ones, and it really wasn't all that long ago the venables era i think, when we could easily have had eight or nine of our starting eleven start for England but do any of us really care now? it's our club that matters as far as i'm concerned anyway, give me Arsenal winning a CL, Prem, or FAC over the national side winning a euro or world cup any time.

  12. Stevieo

    Nov 05, 2013, 20:19 #41333

    Have I got this right? If 1) you are in the top 6 after 10 games and 2) you are a big club, you have a title challenge on your hands? However, should point 1 hold true, but you are a small cr@ppy club, then you are not in the title race, and will be displaced by a bigger club not currently in the top 6? It all seems very scientific?

  13. David

    Nov 05, 2013, 19:20 #41332

    A win at OT would be nice, but a combative draw would be still impressive.

  14. BADARSE

    Nov 05, 2013, 19:12 #41331

    Hi maguiresbridge. I cannot believe any manager is concerned about a national side. In the 'old' days it was in the clubs interests. There were very few internationals, played,and then only midweek when the league programme was much easier compared to todays, and it was a touch of class if you could boast an international in the ranks at any club. We cannot be sure but I have always doubted a new arrival in January unless a prospective deal is somehow in place. It is a notoriously difficult time to get a player to move and if coming from outside the Premier league it would be the biggest of all culture shocks. A young player from the sunny climes of Spain or Italy meeting Frostie the snowman for the first time would find it horrific. Be prepared to run with what we've got buddy.

  15. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 05, 2013, 18:36 #41330

    I'd like to think Wenger will be concentrating more on Arsenal than the french national side even if he is french, or any national side if it came to it. They'll certainly not worry about Wenger or Arsenal when their getting their two pounds of flesh from Giroud or if they send him back crocked. Yes he's being flogged to death now alright like a lot of our players are, with no respite and that's the way it will stay as long as he keeps performing regardless if we need another striker so i wouldn't bet on a striker been signed in Jan not one in the class that's required anyway.

  16. BADARSE

    Nov 05, 2013, 18:05 #41329

    Bard, if you take a phrase out of context, you get a different comprehension, surely that is understandable? Then if you cannot see the difference between, 'fourth place is the limit of our expectations', and, 'fourth place is a target', when assessing where we are at the moment, that is clearly a misunderstanding on your part. If before a race you recognise seven top runners are taking part and you are one of them, it passes through your mind as an axiom. After the first of four laps you find yourself leading with the other six tucked in behind and the rest of the field puffing and panting and obviously virtually out of the race you consider that a target reached. You have confirmed to yourself that although you knew beforehand you were one of those top seven, now everyone sees the marker you have laid down. Your target then shifts. Upon closer scrutiny you see that where you finished in the last race, fourth, still needs cementing by piling up a bit of daylight between you and the weaker of the other six. At the same time you believe it may be possible to even improve on those basic intentions. I think that is clear enough, isn't it? Seriously, do you think I am saying, 'Oh we can get to fourth and no higher.' Goodness,we can win it, or if the fates dictated we could finish in any position below that. And my question still stands, who said, '... fourth place is the limit of our expectations'?

  17. Bard

    Nov 05, 2013, 17:18 #41328

    Badarse: 'fourth place is a target' or did I misread that'. Also what exactly was the question you were posing?

  18. BADARSE

    Nov 05, 2013, 16:24 #41327

    @Bard, who said fourth place is the limit of our expectations? Forget about where you have heard it before, that isn't important to my question. @SGR Boy, well yes you certainly can distil the info coming from these ten games as a marker for raised expectations. My previous post is guarded and realistic, though as I suggested it offers an opportunity to assimilate and a perchance to dream moment.

  19. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Nov 05, 2013, 16:12 #41326

    All we can really say about the rest of the season from these first 10 games is they've raise expectations. To 'only' finish 4th at the end of the season would mean a significant drop off in the next three quarters of the season, and surely we'd all be massively disappointed were that to happen from where we are right now.

  20. Bard

    Nov 05, 2013, 15:55 #41325

    Badarse: Fourth place is the limit of our expectation.. Now where have I heard that before.

  21. BADARSE

    Nov 05, 2013, 15:39 #41324

    Thanks Simon I had anticipated your article as the ten game milestone approached, and was very pleased it was received with a resounding victory over Liverpool acting as a backdrop. The 'ten game' assessment could easily be a 7,8,9 or 11 should anyone choose. Your decision and judgement is ideal as far as I am concerned, those who don't fully grasp the flexibility concept just go around and around chasing their own tails. As far as our position is concerned your analysis is good. As a rough hewn forecast I had absorbed the seven team group of the two Manchester clubs, us, Totts and Chelsea, and the two Liverpool teams was the top grouping, and where I expected us to be. My realistic hope was that we would finish above the lesser three and expected to just fall behind the three others. These ten games have substantiated my immediate assessment; we are one of those top seven clubs. It has also illuminated that beyond a spirited early rush by Southampton no others are about to challenge the group. So first part certainly achieved. The next is going to be open to chance for a while yet but already we can see the dust settling and a place above seventh is now clearly expected. Fourth place is a target, and a reasonable one, yet to date we are allowed to dream, and dream nice ones. We can anticipate, providing the wheels don't come off, a run with those better three teams. Where we finish in that top four grouping, if we maintain the form, is open to conjecture, but a healthy and hopeful finish is beginning to take shape.

  22. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 05, 2013, 14:48 #41323

    So OGL knew all along, yea right. The magic ten game mark and we're on top yes it's always nice to be on top of the league and we are title contenders more than we've been for a long long time, and we can celebrate and get carried away as much as we like, but it means nothing at this moment and time, even after twenty, thirty games, and regardless who we sign what matters is when we're on top when the final whistle goes on the seasons end, the thirty eighth game otherwise it will be all worthless, a waste, another failure.

  23. CT Gooner

    Nov 05, 2013, 14:14 #41322

    I am left very annoyed by Wengers comments. I'd have had his head after Villa, not laughed about some comment of where we'd be in 9 games. I'm waiting for some honesty from him about why we started the league with no improvements! I don't count a constantly injured French second div U-18 as improving our squad. And all this with a proven Defensive midfield general at our practice ground dying for a contract. So yes, while Rambo has been amazing, the whole side has been lifted by Flamini's presence. I'd like Wenger to take a critical look at his squads attributes and age and put a plan together for the next 5 years, identifying critical targets and signing them. Also now we have a fantastic midfield, are we giving the right youth players time to learn from these guys. It feels like we've put the last 9 years behind us and have a fresh beginning, I hope we don't make the same mistakes again....

  24. Ron

    Nov 05, 2013, 13:25 #41320

    Gooner Ron - respect as ever. I wd just say though that Walcott, Sanogo and Podolski all are and have been perennial injury carriers. I accept that anybody can get injured but Walcott and Podolski all have terrible track records over long periods and hence simply do not fit the bill. Bendtner is just shocking and must be discounted. Sanogo at this stage of his career isnt really much more of an option than is Bendtner. No experience, too young and injured.

  25. GoonerRon

    Nov 05, 2013, 13:03 #41319

    In terms of depth I think our strength may be slightly understated. If we look at the midfield 5 positions we've got 9 first team candidates - Arteta, Flamini, Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil, Cazorla, Gnabry, Rosicky and AOC. Almost two players per position and that excludes Podolski and Walcott - and that is the crux of my point. With Giroud as the undisputed number 1 we still have Podolski, Walcott, Bendtner and Sanogo as options behind him. Now, whilst I'm not suggesting they are world class, I do believe they are viable options that could see us through a number of games in a number of competitions, without hindering our depth in midfield. Don't get me wrong, I think we could (and hope we do) bring in a higher calibre of striker which would further improve our quality but I don't think the situation is a bad as some might make out. Lastly, all of this talk is predicated on Giroud getting injured - but in his last 4 full seasons he's played over 40 games in each, including at least 34 in the league in each season - so perhaps he (I'm touching wood now) is more robust than we give him credit for.

  26. Ron

    Nov 05, 2013, 13:01 #41318

    hibeegunner - Yes, my view too mate. Then again, i'd make a better fist of it than Bendtner. I can say with some certainty that in 40 odd years, ive never seen a more inept forward (if thats what he is and the term used loosely) in an Arsenal line up.

  27. John Gooner

    Nov 05, 2013, 12:49 #41316

    I think you're dead right that this game against United will be very important for our season. I think that our confidence and belief going into the Christmas period depends on us taking at least a point. I don't agree with this 'magic 10 game mark', 10 games to go mark would be more appropriate. How many times over the years have we seen teams having the league 'all but won' with 8, 9, 10 games to go, only for United to storm past them. We must not talk of titles until we are, as CG suggests, 1 game to go and 5 points clear. We need to focus on the next game and work out how we stop Wenger from masterminding our usual February-March collapse. I think the only thing that can keep our momentum going into the new year is a Suarez type signing in January. It must be someone who complements Giroud and adds to our finishing ability as I think Giroud has earnt the right to starting place with his performances so far this season. His ability to fight and hold up the ball is vital to our current system as he takes so much pressure off the defence. If we attempt to replace Giroud, we will only turn him into another Chamakh and end up with 1 first choice striker with inadequate back-up ie. what we have now.

  28. hibeegunner

    Nov 05, 2013, 12:27 #41315

    Ron 11:28am 5th Nov 2013 Ill maybe get slaughtered but why not a loan punt or buy Defoe in January. We arent going to get Saurez or his like as a few of the guys on here advocate in January. Defoes not so hot as he was but hed get games as Girouds sidekick and he can shoot!Hes well naffed off at the swamp too so he d be driven. - Post No. 44188 I thought we should have signed him in August always seems to get goals and would have been a better bet than Nick B

  29. CanadaGooner

    Nov 05, 2013, 12:19 #41314

    I prefer the 'magic' thirty-seven game mark (with Arsenal sitting on top, 5 points clear)

  30. DJ

    Nov 05, 2013, 12:10 #41313

    Why the 'magic' ten game mark? Why not the ten game mark?

  31. Ron

    Nov 05, 2013, 11:28 #41312

    Ill maybe get slaughtered but why not a loan punt or buy Defoe in January. We arent going to get Saurez or his like as a few of the guys on here advocate in January. Defoes not so hot as he was but hed get games as Girouds sidekick and he can shoot!Hes well naffed off at the swamp too so he d be driven.

  32. Bard

    Nov 05, 2013, 10:51 #41309

    A bit of statement of the bleeding obvious Simon, a little critcal thinking would go a long way. The transfer window was a shambles which ever way you dress it up. We got lucky but to somehow believe that we'll morph into transfer predators in Jan is wishful thinking. Wenger is well known for procrastination and I dont be he will be very different whether we're top or not. Every selling team will know we need a striker and he will have to pay top money. Again we know he hates to pay over the odds and if that means he has to sacrifice a shot at the title then so be it. This is the other side of Wengerball. A refusal to take your chance. Of course we need a top striker but it aint going to happen.

  33. Unchives

    Nov 05, 2013, 10:34 #41308

    @Esso- absolutely correct.....a win will knock the Mancs out in my opinion, however a draw is a good result and maintains our 8 point gap against them. A Loss & they are back in. We've made this mistake before. As Much as Simon wants to win the league after 10 games, the true picture is when you have played all teams once, add 75% of your existing points at this stage to your total and you will know if you can be champions.

  34. Mike

    Nov 05, 2013, 10:25 #41307

    The up side of having only one striker is that he plays game after game and in Giroud's case it has benefited him enormously - he is developing rapidly and has created an understanding with the players around him. At the beginning of the season he was seen as a back up striker - he is now an intergral part of how the team operates ( defensively as well) - we now need a striker as bsck up for him, not the other way around. By the way - the BFG has also quietly got on with the job in very efficient manner also becoming one of the first names on the team sheet - great to see

  35. CanadaGooner

    Nov 05, 2013, 10:17 #41306

    "messing about during the summer transfer window" - do you mean the purchase of just 1 player and 2 or so free tranferees? And that stopped Wishere and Giroud and others from training during the summer to avoid losing to Aston Villa on the opening day, at home! I suppose one could say the shock of that loss served as a timely warning to the team and has helped us so far? (or should we be honest enough to admit that Ramsey and his unbelievable start to the season is probably the key reason we're sitting atop the table right now?): the reality is that without Rambo's magical start, we could have followed the Villa defeat with more dropped points. Giroud MUST play as often as he's fresh and ready: his display against Liverpool was simply spectacular (if he can carry on holding the ball up as he did during that game, we should be fine against the big teams). The problem is, we cant expect him to play every game. And if we bring in a player like Suarez, they can swap or play together. Gives the manager the option and most importantly, keeps Bendtner off the pitch!

  36. JJB

    Nov 05, 2013, 10:11 #41305

    Good article Simon, well written on the whole, nice to read some positive words on here, it gives the haters very little to cling on to. I agree with Ron though, I am tired of this "the media hate us" diatribe that so many ignorant fans cling to! Every club believe the media hates them, and its a ridiculous notion! Liverpool and Utd do get it easier from the medai, partly because there are so many of their ex-players writing articles and doing punditry, but alos because (whether we like it or not) they have been the 2 biggest clubs in the country over the last 70 years or so. Also, your comparison of Lewandowski and Giroud is in correct, they are very different players and although I love our big french beast, he is not in the same league as Lewandowski not at all, i think its folly to compare the two, Giroud is a different type of player, still growing and learning his trade at the top level, LW is the finished article he is one of the best in the world right now! Llorente on loan looks on, but he hasn't settled well in Italy and he isn't available for the CL, allot of roads do seem to point to Suarez, and although I cant stand the little a*****, he is world class and he would be available for CL. I'm sure conversations will be happening again with his agent as they did before, and if we feel he would come to us, I expect us to go back with a 50m+ bid.

  37. Ron

    Nov 05, 2013, 9:50 #41302

    I dont get this 'the media dont like us' thing at all Simon. Lets not forget we have flattered to deceive so often over the last 9 years. I d take a draw at Man U. Its all we need there. A win wd be great for confidence, but i dont think going gung ho there just to prove a point to a few tedious pundits is very wise. They still have a dynamic strike force and we have to harness that first and foremost. Moreover, there will be the darker forces at work that face any of the top teams visiting that place.

  38. tt

    Nov 05, 2013, 9:18 #41301

    Esso, but surely as a Gooner you will have remembered our recent performances up at Old Trafford? We have been mauled, we have wasted opportunities, we have been absolutely dire and every game has affected our belief. Belief is the key word, the team have to believe they can win at United and then go out and do it. Winning at United would give them a massive boost and belief they can go to other places and win. It would also break a hoodoo that has lasted far too long.

  39. Gooner Gary

    Nov 05, 2013, 8:58 #41300

    out of our next 2 games, if I was offered a draw a a win, I would take the win tomorrow and draw on sunday. The reason is simple - do i think we will win the cl - not at the moment (but once it gets to knock-out anything can happen.) The point is do i think if we don't come top 2, we will end up 4th in our group - no, we would come 3rd! and that would me EL footy which would destroy our season. We need to qualify from our group not for the sake of the CL itself (though we can live in hope for the CL) but so we avoid the EL. With a 5 point gap, a draw on sunday is fine as we'd be at least 3 points clear. More important is a win tomorrow so we can go to naopli either already qualified (if napoli beat dormund in round 5 of matches and we beat marsielle) or only needing a draw (if we beat marsielle regardless of the dortmund v napoli result). Of course winning both would be loevely :-)

  40. Esso

    Nov 05, 2013, 7:47 #41297

    Season will not be defined by beating united. Draw up there will be a perfectly respectable result and maintain an 8 point gap.

  41. Will

    Nov 05, 2013, 7:28 #41296

    Two words explain the Villa loss: Anthony Taylor.

  42. mk

    Nov 05, 2013, 6:20 #41295

    villa defeat was down to terrible refereeing, not just the big decisions but all the fouls/non fouls and use/non use of the advantage rules disadvantaged Arsenal. Taylor could not have swung the game more if he had tried (assuming he wasn't actually trying and just had a very bad day) and results afterwards confirm that. I think if fans went back and watched the game again now that they have gotten over the wenger out sillyness they would direct their anger more appropriately. We can only hope that Olliver has a better more even game against man utd than he usually has for us.

  43. smithy

    Nov 05, 2013, 6:02 #41294

    Fernando Lorrente from Juventus would be a good signing.Good at hold up play, excellent in the air,and is brilliant timing his runs across defenders.He would be a good signing.As to Pato I couldn't comment as I haven't seen enough of him.One thing is for sure- we desperately need another striker- Bendtner,Park and Sanogo (currently) are not good enough.

  44. Felix

    Nov 05, 2013, 2:45 #41292

    It's difficult to disagree with the thrust of this article. Ten games shows promise but beating Spurs and Liverpool - albeit both at home, while losing your only match because the referee gave away 2 penalties (Villa's 3rd goal was the footballing equivalent of an empty-net goal in hockey) indicates that you are a contender for something positive, especially carving out a five-point lead. More important is the nature of Arsenal's season - already playing 2 games more than their top of the table competitors through the UEFA CL qualifier, picking themselves up from the Villa defeat even before Ozil arrived. This is a team of cohesion, character and the midfield has strength in depth. Saturday had no Wilshere,Flamini, Podolski, Oxlade-Chamberlain or Walcott - a top-class midfield on its own. Moreover they enjoy playing their football together and they have enough experience to know the season is long. Their 2 defeats were both close affairs. The weaknesses are maybe a defender short and a quality striker short. Pato could be quite perfect to join Giroud upfront. Buying him in Janaury would provide the perfect cover, and he won't want to play full-time on the back of a Brazilian season. The midfield however is the key with 4 players able to play defensively and move into attack while the others are all attack-minded. Koscielny's form is pushing the point of awesome and Monreal's presence is always reassuring too, as left-back or in midfield. The old weaknesses are less obvious. Extra right-back cover could be advised as Jenkinson is unable to supplement Sagna's current form for more than a match or two. Keeping Giroud fresh will also be a major challenge but if Arsenal can notch-up enough 3 goal leads with 20 mins to go, then Wenger can blood players like Sanogo and Akpom and Gnabry to bring them into the firing line for the second half of the season and releive the pressure from Giroud. But like Cazorla, like Sagna, like Gibbs, like Flamini, like Koscielny, like Ramsey, like Rosicky, like Arteta, Giroud is enjoying playing his football with this team and squad. Ozil seems to be enjoying making the adjustment for the time being and Wilshere from time to time looks like he's enjoying it too. It won't be long before they are communicating and moving with the understanding of the 2004 team. But having known only failure and disappointment so far, they have grit and pluck in a way that I've not seen before save when Henry turned the tables on Liverpool in 2004 after Arsenal had tumbled out of Europe to Chelsea and the FA Cup a few days earlier to provide the Easter Resurrection that became the Invincibles. Hopefully Arsenal will stay at least one more season to defend whatever he wins this season.

  45. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 26, 2012, 17:12 #27218

    The reports of arsenal fans fighting with each other outside the ground on Wednesday night if true comes as no surprise and it's no surprise what about. I hope the powers that be are happy now.

  46. Fan since 69

    Oct 26, 2012, 9:03 #27192

    It wasn't that long ago when often debates of Wenger or Ferguson! But let's face it there is no comparison. Wenger has failed to build new teams of winning mentality, whereas at manure I can only remember once in the last 15 years when a bigger name had left to those who had come in during the transfer window. As for us.....! Now a couple of seasons ago Wenger finally made changes to rid of the poor players (you know who im talking about, most who are still at the club away on loan moves!), but I think we all agree that things are a lot worse. Almost like cancer, the club needs to cut deep and despence all that is no good. We are punching well above our weight by qualifying for CL season after season but the reality is that without a trophy at the end of this season will be the longest period for me as a gunners fan since 1969, and yet a new contract is waiting to be signed!! The club deserves to witness 20,000 empty seats for games! Maybe we will then finally be herd!!

  47. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Oct 26, 2012, 6:35 #27186

    Look on the bright side. At least you lot won't have to hear me prattle on about the suitability of Huntelaar ever again, the evidence is there for all of us to see.

  48. stephen powell

    Oct 25, 2012, 23:10 #27175

    last night was pathetic.Ramsey and Gervino should forfeit their inflated salary this week and santos should be paying to play.Wenger typically stubborn by not making subs till too late and then not taking Ramsey off.I pay £3k for my two season tickets but not for much longer.i want an apology from Wenger for last night...not excuses.

  49. gee

    Oct 25, 2012, 20:57 #27174

    Podolski and cazorla maybe decent players but they've come from clubs where they've hardly won much if at all. We need proper winners in the team. However to get those wenger must put up with being challenged. And he won't have that. How bad is that that subs were planned. I know wenger is a pure dictator but this takes the piss. Poldi the best finisher at the club is subbed off when we are desperate for a goal. Pathetic lack of tactics and we will win nothing while wenger remains.

  50. under avheiver

    Oct 25, 2012, 20:34 #27173

    NOOP - I agree, protests outside the ground are needed, but what about those of us unable to get there for whatever reason. Just an idea, but how about an online petition, stating we arent going to support Arsenal financialy in any way, shape or form whatsoever until change comes etc. The more we can spread the word for people to stop giving them money in any form whatsoever the sooner the yank and his buddies will sit up and take notice. Anyone out there good with the ineternet?? PS Sickened to read the same old cr@p being spouted at the AGM

  51. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 25, 2012, 20:05 #27172

    Rob spot on the only reason he was there last night is because his beloved american football is in town no other.

  52. Had enough

    Oct 25, 2012, 18:27 #27171

    I blame two things the jet lag from their flight back from Norwich and the magistrates for not giving Santos bird for his driving misdemeanors

  53. Peter Wain

    Oct 25, 2012, 18:24 #27170

    No surprises about the prformance or the result. Having Gervinho leading the line meant we would not score if we played for weeks. The only problem look at the replacement Giroud. I read aboout how we cannot compete financially and look at the money wasted on buying Giroud Gervinho and Santos about £30 million. Add to that the money wated on Park and the money wated on giving rediculous contracts to Bendtner and Denilson and come to the conculsion that htis is not about money it is about judgement. Our management cannot judge a player. The team selection for last nights game was awful. Why put Ramsey wide right when he cannot run where is the pace. Why play Gervinho or Mannone why not start with players who might actually try. Why spend money in the transfer window when you can buy rubbish and hike the season ticket prices to cover the lack of prize money. Why bother keeping Wiltshire lets sell him next but above all -what Arsenal stands for is that we must make a profit at all and any cost.

  54. jjetplane

    Oct 25, 2012, 18:10 #27169

    Stats show we have had less shots on goal than any other team in the CL. Wenger sees it differently, even saying Arsenal were better than Chelsea or Norwich. His arrogance is now pathological and so would mine be if I could earn money like that for old rope. This is how it is done in yankeeland - may as well move the Emirates to da Bronx as most fussball will be online before Arsenal get anywhere near silver. Vote wiv yer feet - believe me - its easy after the first coupla seasons.

  55. Dan h

    Oct 25, 2012, 17:33 #27168

    Jude what excuse for Ramsey?Player struggling big time played out of position isn't going to work.AW has done it before with Bendtner & AA23 regardless of a players ability it never works out.Square pegs,round holes & Djourou 'playing'RB against Utd painfull!!

  56. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Oct 25, 2012, 17:12 #27167

    Then that performance is followed by the same tired old crap at the AGM. FFP won't be enforced and even if it was AFC would still be miles behind Man U, Barca, Real Madrid... but the point is it won't be and they know it, it's just a hook to try to keep the gravy train going. Besides, how could AFC ever compete with a manager that doesn't enforce positional discipline. Tommy V charges up the pitch every match these days, clearly nothing is said because it keeps happening. Santos is a LB who doesn't play at LB, clearly nothing is said because it keeps happening. It's just 'go out and express yourselves'. Not going to win any team the league or CL.

  57. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 25, 2012, 16:52 #27166

    ianmac your right huntelaars goal was saveable for a more agile keeper unfortunately mannone isn't one he hasn't it in him.

  58. Gare Kekeke

    Oct 25, 2012, 16:48 #27165

    Full credit to Schalke 04 for their deserved win. As for us, where do you start? Again we were poor. I can’t decide which was worse between this and Norwich last weekend. I don’t normally listen to Talksport but when Adrian Durham says Arsenal fans are desperate for a hero in light of top players being sold in recent years (and I’ll admit, I do find ‘The Daily Arsenal’ hilarious), then I agree with him. Mannone, Santos & Gervinho to name but a few. Do these guys deserve the same adulation as recent legends of The Arsenal such as Vieira, Henry & Campbell? Andre Santos; oh dear. Nowhere near the class of great left backs for The Arsenal such as Kenny Sansom, Nigel Winterburn & dare I say it, Ashley Cole. I agree with Drizzle. I’m not sold on Arteta too. Decent, but no Gilberto Silva. Almost becoming a Denilson Mk II. God knows why Wenger can’t go out sign a proper DM. My prediction for the future? We will finish fourth (again). We will be eight years without a trophy, forget the domestic cups, OGL doesn’t place any value on them. Wenger will be offered and sign another contract to take him to 2017 and the club will continue to waste a huge amount of money on wages for average players. The DDT & MSS (thanks to the legend Fozzy’s Mate for coining those abbreviations) love Wenger too much to even think of bringing in a much needed change at managerial level. Oh yeah and they’ll believe that FFP will be the club’s saviour. @ Ianmac; the wage bill is now £143.4m. And Wenger’s defenders say we have no money, brilliant. You couldn’t make it up. Up The Arsenal!

  59. Highbury Boy

    Oct 25, 2012, 16:02 #27164

    Last night's performance was not unexpected. The only thing which surprised me was Bould's honesty in saying that the subs were "pre-planned" which I take as meaning Wenger told him not to make any (except for injuries) until the 70th minute plus even if the team or individuals like Santos were struggling.

  60. Tony Evans

    Oct 25, 2012, 15:54 #27163

    Ron - you and me both mate plus I am sure loads of other completely disallusioned fans like us. Wenger has to go and if it takes more results like Norwich and Schalke then so be it. Wenger will not go of his own accord and the board will not shift him so this is our only option. I can not believe it has come to this but it has!

  61. NOOP

    Oct 25, 2012, 15:51 #27162

    I'm led to believe w***er got a standing ovation at the AGM today. That tells you that we are all wasting our time on here. I know it's good to get it off your chest with other right thinking fans but while the silent majority stay silent there will be no change. Token protests outside this morning are fine but nowhere near enough to grab attention and dictate change. We really do need someone to step up to the plate and properly organise demonstrations, chants, banners, boycotts, early exits, ANYTHING to let those in charge know that we will NOT be taken for mugs any more. Believe me, I would take the lead in this myself but for geographical reasons I can't. PLEASE Kev,what about starting something through the Gooner ? I know it may not be policy or may not sit well with you but desperate times call for desperate measures. The time for action has come and we all need to act. IN ARSENE WE RUST.

  62. Stephen

    Oct 25, 2012, 15:30 #27161

    I'll never understand the "tactic" of picking Ramsey on the right; however, the manager will always find a place for him even though it's quite clear he's not up to the Arsenal standard. It's painful to watch.

  63. Ronster

    Oct 25, 2012, 15:24 #27160

    Slaine(post 29711)....according to Stewart Robson (today) the word on the grapevine is that Wenger and Bould are not getting on.........

  64. GoonerGoal!

    Oct 25, 2012, 15:17 #27159

    Absolute dross in the last two matches, but really only what I was expecting to see on many occasions this season. Did you really believe that we would operate at the top with a team littered with too many bargain basement signings after selling Fabregas, Nasri and RVP? Wenger ceased to be a Manager in the football sense of the word a couple of season’s back, since when he's been primarily operating as a profit-oriented business model CEO. No aspect of his football management has borne any examination over the past few years, except in the eyes of the AKBs, who if they still “believe” must be rather like the three monkeys; deaf, dumb or blind when it comes to what is being presented to them on the pitch while sitting in the most expensive football seats in the world. So then why am I sitting at home with a smug smile? Because this was all so predictable, and I decided pre-season not to renew, or indeed spend any money with the club, just as long as any of the Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger triumvirate are still at the club, but also because I sense that every performance like the last two brings the required “new broom” a little closer… VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

  65. Jude

    Oct 25, 2012, 15:11 #27158

    Dan h...Along with your excuse that Ramsey is playing out of position, you forgot a few: he's had his leg broken; he's a great lad; he's our future. The truth is, right now, he's rubbish and doesn't belong anywhere near the first team, let alone starting matches and playing the full ninety. Hate to break the news, mate.

  66. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 25, 2012, 14:53 #27157

    Kev i don't know how you kept your cool so much while writing they deserved worse.Most of us could submit the piece we wrote after the norwich debacle but maybe a more appropriate offering would be an obituary.Woeful display again first shot on target on 93min not acceptable clueless,players just not good enough is it any wonder they disappeared down the tunnel sharpish. So much for a big improvement after norwich and repay the fans. Santos ? an unfit liability and he's certainly not alone.An assistant manager hardly leaving the bench following instructions to the letter from his suspended manager prearranged subs you could set your alarm clock by is he not allowed to do the job he has been employed to do ? is he not allowed to use his own initiative ? On the subject of our assistant manager when being interviewed after the game on our performance he was smiling no disrespect bouldy but last night and indeed saturday was nothing to smile about. Yourself and the manager get on the training ground and put it right.

  67. Ron

    Oct 25, 2012, 14:04 #27156

    Guys, we re all pretty much saying the same thing. My first visit to Highbury was 1967 when we were just emerging from the mid 60s slumber when Tottenham were top dogs by miles in NE London and Chelsea were the smart, likeable set of King Road slickers, who had even then been thumping us for years, but in all of the years since (and the Howe and Neill years were pretty low years at times)i can honestly say that the last 3 has seen my interest deteriorate almost to the point of actual 'dislike' of our great Club at times and its a terrible state of mind really. Im honestly now at the point of thinking the Club needs QPR to beat them, Reading to take points and for the usual and customary Old Trafford melt down to repeat itself for the Clubs own 'good'. Ill have no concerns now if it happens. The Clubs management and Coach seriously needs its blind spots forcibly remeoving. This just isnt the Arsenal, my Dad and Uncles cajoled and encouraged me to follow. Its nothing like it! Wheres the pride gone? Disgraceful situation.

  68. Treble Double

    Oct 25, 2012, 14:03 #27155

    Absolutely disgraceful performance last night. Lack of attitude, commitment & guile. Santos was pub standard and really should not be allowed near an Arsenal shirt ever again. No idea why Giroud didn't start - I get his form isn't the greatest he will never find his form from the bench. At least he knows where the goal is unlike Gervinho who is a headless chicken and should be dropped for diving when he had already beaten the defender. Why the hell didn't Stevie Bould make changes sooner? Everyone in the stadium could see we were on borrowed time. There were loads of empty seats last night, wish mine had been one of them. Can't wait for Saturday!!!

  69. John Gooner

    Oct 25, 2012, 13:22 #27154

    Very wishful thinking to believe that Arsenal could perform poorly enough to get Wenger sacked. If the crowds booo the team and walk out early, Kroenke will simply turn up to even fewer games and turn a blind eye. Nothing short of relegation will get Wenger sacked this year and it's very sad to see. I do not think that we should be so quick to write our players off either, 2 bad performances does not a crisis make.

  70. Andreas

    Oct 25, 2012, 13:13 #27153

    We have got the talent at the club they just do not seem to be used effectively - that's down to the manager. If AA23 can perform for 60 mins then he should play in europe ahead of gervinho. Ignasi, Koscielny quite easily should be ahead of santos, who played like it was a wednesday afternoon kick about. Why didn't TV5 reign him in? Surely thats the captains job on the pitch. Losing at home for the first time in a group match had to happen eventually, thankfully we've 6 out of 9 point, 3 games to get 5 points should see us through to last 16, and the inevitable roasting by a proper "big" team in Europe.

  71. Jumpers for Goalposts

    Oct 25, 2012, 12:53 #27152

    Spot on Kevin! Yet another 90 minutes of "just going through the motions" by our overpaid stars. But it's not just about last night, or about the defeat on Saturday. These sloppy, half-arsed performances have been happening on a regular basis for the last 6 or 7 years. We can debate how lightweight Ramsey is, how ****e Gervinho is or how Santos can't defend but they are not the problem. The problem is a stubborn, out of touch, overpaid manager who keeps repeating the same mistakes and an even more out of touch Board of directors. At any other top club the combination of poor performances / excuses / sky high prices would not be tolerated.

  72. HowardL

    Oct 25, 2012, 12:12 #27151

    I too was dismayed to see Cazorla joking with Schalke after the final whistle when I watched the last 14 minutes when I got home. Demotivation can be contagious but that sort of thing, if it must happen, should not occur in front of the fans or cameras. It's like supermarket cashiers chatting to each other and ignoring the feelings of their customers.

  73. Tony Evans

    Oct 25, 2012, 11:58 #27150

    A few more performances like the last two in the next few matches could make Wenger's position untenable. In the past he usually manages to turn things around before the next clutch of shockers come along but maybe, just maybe he won't this time and I am finding myself hoping he doesn't. As Kevin has said the threadbare nature of the squad is there for all to see and I have had more than enough 'Groundhog' days with Wenger to last a lifetime.

  74. Moscow Gooner

    Oct 25, 2012, 11:46 #27149

    For the first time in forty five years of support started off this season cheering on the opposition in the hope that a string of early season defeats would finally bring the regime down - and leave us enough room to make a success of the season. When we won at Liverpool and West Ham, I admit I was tempted to believe again - for a day or two. We need Wenger out, we need Kroenke out and we need changes to the stadium: crowd closer to the pitch, standing areas, cheaper tickets. These factors are all linked. Most of all we need the apathetic mass of AKB fans to wake up, change sides or leave the club. A 0-0 versus QPR, defeat at Reading, a hammering again at Man Utd won t shift Wenger but it might be the tipping edge as far as the fans are concerned: nobody has been able to mobilise opposition to AW/SK effectively so far. This has to change and quickly. The worry is: we ll beat QPR by three or four, beat Reading and then go down narrowly at OT and people will go back to sleep for a few more months.

  75. Paul

    Oct 25, 2012, 11:35 #27148

    To me this is the worse team since Don Howe was manager nearly 30 years ago.Whenever anyone talks about the good things Wenger has done foe Arsenal its a history lesson.It doesnt seem posibble that a club that went unbeaten just 8 years ago is now a club that sets out to finish 4th every year.Project Youth failed spectacularly.Senderos Denilson Bendtner Diaby and Walcott all given massive long contracts.Now we go out and buy dross.Chamakh Park Gervinho Santos and Squillaci.Our best players can see this and join clubs that actually want to win things.Wenger is taking us nowhere and should have gone 4 years ago.But Gazidis and Kroenke love him because he makes money.The difference between Neill and Howe was they were rightly sacked in the 80's there is not a hope in hell that Arsenal will ever sack Wenger

  76. SilverGooner

    Oct 25, 2012, 11:25 #27147

    After the Norwich nightmare, am I the only one who expected a half-decent performance last night? Instead we got another gutless and clueless performance. It was obvious Santos was struggling....how come there were no tactical changes to address this and rely on planned substitutions instead? Even an amateur Sunday team would have done something about it. As for Gervinho....I doubt whether he would even get a start in a Sunday side. And all this while our £13million striker sits on the bench!! A truly shocking state of affairs. Most other clubs would have had Wenger out by now, but as the board are only motiovated by profit we are stuck with this tactically inept loser.

  77. Slaine

    Oct 25, 2012, 11:10 #27146

    If it is true that al the substitutions were pre-planned living Bould with no room to do anything then we must accept that the manager is out of control.

  78. John Abrehart

    Oct 25, 2012, 11:09 #27145

    It's the constant sideways tippy-tappy passing that gets me. I honestly think that the desire to attempt to go past players with the ball has been coached out of them. 'You must play the percentage ball to keep possession' will be the rule. TakeWalcott, Arshavin, the Ox............their running at a defender with the ball would often produce something, a half chance, a rebound or even a free kick or penalty. But now, when faced with a defensive wall, we pass across the whole width of the pitch agin, allowing the defenders to re-group. Last night we even tried the long ball from the GK down the middle. To who? Haircut is no Andy Carroll where a knock on could produce something. The chance to Gervinho after 20 minutes when he was in the clear is one that TH would have routinely buried. When Gervinho scored those goals at the start of the season, I had mixed feelings that he would become the preferred choice in that position. If Prof cannot see our striker problem the he really must be losing the plot. Only BFG and Jenkinson were worthyof the shirt last night. I have reluctantly joined the other protestingfans; I walked out after the second goal last night and will not go again, (except to see thre reserves at Reading) until our problems have been addressed significantly and that means INVESTMENT Mr Kroenke!

  79. AuRevoir Wenger

    Oct 25, 2012, 10:58 #27144

    Sorry Kev some of us didnt buy into this new Arsenal.Beating the worst Liverpool team in 50 years and the whipping boys of the Prem Southampton proved nothing.We are a much weaker team than last season.We lost the best player in the premiership.How were we going to be better?.Those who claimed we could mount a title challenge should be certified.We have some downright shocking players who should not not be any where near the club.Manonne wasnt good enough two years ago thats why he was at loan at Hull now he is in goal for us.Santos was a shocking panic buy he is 29 but he never could defend and his fitness is a joke.Ramsey had a lot of sympathy after his broken leg but that has long died away sorry i dont think he is good enough for the prem.Gervinho is s**t another buy from the French league,god that league must be poor,the chicken wants his head back.Bad first touch no brain.Take away Cazorla(some team will next summer) and maybe Arteta we are an average bunch.

  80. Bard

    Oct 25, 2012, 10:49 #27143

    Excellent if depressing post Kev. Anyone watching the last 2 games cannot fail to see that the club are in serious decline. Before anyone trots out the old excuse that we can't compete financially we should look at the glaring holes in the team and the appalling attitude. No goals in 2 games says it all. Poor Mannone isn't up to it and hasn't been.The club need to take action to at least halt the slide. There cannot be an Arsenal fan who seriously thinks Wenger can take the club forward. He's been an excellent manager but he is long past his sell buy date.

  81. Steve

    Oct 25, 2012, 10:38 #27142

    We have all known for a long time that Manonne Santos Ramsey and Gervinho are not good enough.But one player who is going under the radar when it comes to criticism is Podolski.His recent performance have been of a player going through the motions.Yes we know Santos cant defend but Podolski gave him less cover than Arshavin would.Podolski has scored the odd goal but his overall form has been poor.

  82. Its up for grabs now

    Oct 25, 2012, 10:25 #27141

    Nothing to add really, other than those of you who still attend games, please help put us all out of our misery by demanding Wenger's exit vocally!

  83. foxinthebox2001

    Oct 25, 2012, 10:12 #27140

    I don't think anyone, apart from the delusional few expected us to tear Schalke a new one. But what is worrying is the team tactics when things are not going our way, we had no idea of how to grind out what would have been a crucial point last night. A point that would have kept us top of the group. It's not a new problem, in fact you could go back and find examples over the past few seasons. A prime example was the 4-0 drubbing at the San Siro, we were awful but instead of trying to keep the score reasonable so the 2nd leg was still 'live' we just collapsed.

  84. Bridgers

    Oct 25, 2012, 10:10 #27139

    I don't see how anyone could criticise Coquelin last night, he ran his nuts off putting in tackles and making passes. He makes Ramsey look what he is, over-hyped and under-talented. Gervinho hasn't a clue what he's doing so neither do his teammates, and Santos! £6.5 million? you could get twice the player for quarter the price from the championship. No heart, no drive, no ambition.

  85. Mikey59

    Oct 25, 2012, 10:08 #27138

    Lacking depth, lacking quality, lacking heart, lacking tactically, lacking a keeper, lacking a left back, lacking a striker, lacking any association with the Arsenal I grew up with.

  86. David Chamberalin

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:53 #27137

    Kevin totally agree with every sentiment. I for one have been a season ticket holder for 20+ years and was close to not renewing this year. I love the Arsenal after my family its my biggest vice but I can no longer suffer this and to that extent this will be my last season.

  87. Ron

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:42 #27136

    Mr Wenger needs to go. The Board need to recognise he s worn out now, the mojo never to return. If he stays too much longer, he s in danger of leaving with a very soured memory of him, whether its him or the Board to blame for the present day malaise of which none of us really know yet. I wouldnt want that. It is very much akin to the last days of Neill. The same sense of resignation prevails around that ground.The Club needs radical changes on and off the pitch for the Clubs own sake. Its very stale there right now.

  88. Rippy

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:39 #27135

    Last night was a total nightmare. The atmosphere in the stadium was almost of acceptance. We were 1-0 down and people around me were posing for photographs? That stadium design is ****. The fans are too far away. Anyone who has ever played or been involved In football will tell you. The emirates is a cold lonely big bowl. With zero personality. The best team in the world would struggle to get motivated at times in there. God help the next manager who takes over from wenger. Not sure what others think but although I love arsenal . Going there just isn't that enjoyable an experience . Watching this team in that soul less place is fast becoming a torture. Highbury was superb I miss its personality and the great people. I can't be bothered to mention the football. When you buy championship level players what do you expect. See u all on Saturday ha ha

  89. ed enough.....

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:31 #27134

    Breathtakingly shocking performance once again....Not a man fit to wear the shirt last night...Even our one standout this season Cazorla, looked out of salts and devoid of ideas. As for the rest....Ramsey, Santos, Jenkinson, Giroud, Arshavin are lightweight at best, but the award for outstanding waste of space surely goes to the one and only Gervinho. UTTER CRAP MR WENGER...Please wake up and see what we can all see. Your squad is the poorest you have fielded since you arrived at Arsenal. I fear another poor result against lowly QPR and a absolute shafting at Utd next weekend...RVP hat-trick??? Who would bet against it?

  90. Rob

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:18 #27133

    "At least try something different, as this is only working financially at present. " And there you have it. Because whilst that continues so does Wenger. Kronke couldn't give a toss otherwise. How many times will he be back between now and May ? If the season really turns sour, I'd say zero. If we do finally drop out the top four, it might put a different perspective on things. But if the 'day trippers' keep coming and keep eating their hot dogs and videoing the away fans on their mobiles, then Stan and Hill-Wood won't otherwise care. More agony to follow !

  91. The Real World

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:17 #27132

    @drizzle Michael Carrick has won 4 league titles, a League Cup, the Champions League, 4 Charity Shields and the FIFA Club World Cup. I hate ManU as much as the next guy, but let's not compare our players to that bunch cos they are all proven winners.

  92. Gman

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:17 #27131

    Embarrassing, pathetic an insult to the ripped off fans and in the words of the Romford Pele ‘A LOAD OF PONY’. I knew we were going to lose last night even though Shalke have never won on British soil. We will never win any silver ware whilst Wenger is manager. I mean what’s the incentive for the players to raise their game and over perform when they see their manager being rewarded for constant failure? Arsenal is in my DNA so I’m not going to stop supporting them, but until he goes I won’t be spending any of my hard earnt cash at the Grove. I’m bracing myself for some more embarrassment on the 3rd of next month; let’s hope we don’t lose by a bigger margin than last years?

  93. chris dee

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:15 #27130

    Totally dumbfounded after watching a repeat performance of the breathtaking insipid,lackadaisical,diffident display we got at Norwich. And then what happens?To add insult to injury I see Carzola,all wide smiles and jokey with a Schalke after the final whistle. And why is this? Because deep down,like many of the players, he really could't give a s*** about the club. None of these current players are willing to bust a gut or go the extra mile to win a trophy for Arsenal.It's a job or work for them,do the minimum ,and pick up the wonga at the end of the week,while we the fans take the hurt and humiliation because we love the club. A situation left to fester by the manager.

  94. RJ

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:15 #27129

    Desperate. You have covered the play well Mr W, but what about the crowd? I have been blazing the trail on "the atmosphere at the Emirates has got better over the last six months" but last night I think the penny dropped with almost everyone in the ground (including me, the eternal optimist) that as a club we are in real trouble. As a collective force (the 12th Man) the stuffing was totally knocked out of us by an awful display, and we couldn't even be bothered to get that angry about the shortcomings of Gervinho, Ramsey and the Coq (he needs to stop diving, rolling around the floor and showboating and get on and play football). Sadly, the only highlight for me was Jenkinson sprinting off the pitch when subbed so as to minimise the time lost through the changeover - that is passion and commitment, shame that most of his colleagues did not show it as well. All credit to the German support though - the only entertainment on a poor night. Did Bould get out of his seat even once?

  95. Fozzy's mate

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:10 #27128

    Oh Kev where did you start after last nights "performance". We are almost back to the low point of the lap/lack of appreciation at the end of the villa game 2 seasons ago when the cries of 6% yer having a laugh rang out. Todays AGM is frankly pointless as it is now a police state like event. At least in the days of 2008/9 when OGL and the old etonion fart/imbecile were politely telling the fans to f off, it had some meaning. Instead Mr Self sustainable/smoke and mirrors and the DDT will spin and spiel. QPR at home then manure away really could be kill or cure for this season. But when you looked at the side last night there are so many mediocre players its untrue. Possibly Carzorla is the only one of real top class. BFG is a decent defender and Jenkinson solid but the rest, half decent at best. TV5 and Santos want to be centre forwards and hey maybe they could do a better job than Gervinho and Giroud?

  96. Camgooner

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:10 #27127

    Being a pedant: no shots on target in 90minutes. The one effort in target was in injury time when we were 2-0 down. Poor tactics again. Lack if depth (again). Losing the ball in defence again. Basic errors in defence (Santos...). All the usual issues. Then lets add the substitutions by numbers: at least Giroud for Gervinho removed the worst player on the pitch, but the double sub was crazy. Very, very poor and we could get tanked in Germany. Schalke played to a game plan and deserved their comfortable win.

  97. Ganesh

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:08 #27126

    Well written Kevin. To be really honest, the source of the problems - lack of motivation, handbrake performances - points to Wenger and Wenger alone. We struggled with picking up matches from the scruff of their neck even with Cesc and van Persie in the side. I'll still give Steve Bould some time to sort out the defense, it's not fair on him that he comes in for criticism with just three months into a repair job for a damage that is easily ten years old. A lot of blogs point out to the lengthy wage bill and the recent flight to Norwich where it seems the team still had their seat belts on, on the pitch. It's an easy life at Arsenal for a lot of players who are on the fringes of the first team and who are simply not good enough. But would getting good players solve that? Not completely. It's an attitude problem and it would only be cured if the manager gave a **** or better, left.

  98. ianmac

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:05 #27125

    Gnabry chance at the end last night was our only chance of note in last 180 mins of football. Disgraceful, woeful, embarrassing. Our wage bill is 124 m a year. How? Manager on 7m a year. How? According to journalist Matt Scott an Arsenal fan another contract for AW is on the table waiting to be signed. If that is true it just shows the complacency running thru the club with no pressure on the manager to achieve anything. I'm not blaming Mannone but Huntelaars goal wasn't exactly in either corner but straight at him. I know it was struck well but a top keeper may have got something on it and possibly prevented a goal. He is not up to playing at this level, looks hesitant throughout. Problem is things will get worse before they get better.

  99. Dan h

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:03 #27124

    Schalke were well worth the 2-0 win could have been more had a nailed on penalty turned down.No response from saturday was there?Ramsey & Gervinho neither world beaters low on confidence played out of position.Santos was exposed again Bould can drill the back four all day long but if he's being asked to coach a full back that can't even hold a line let alone look across one he's wasting his time.The substitions were pre-arranged we were told.When Koscielny was warming up i thought we were going to make a tactical change but then i remembered we don't really do them.So the DDT is in town for the AGM seriously he is here to congratulate the management on making a profit then onto Wembley sunday for the NFL.Cynical i know but as quite a few of us have been saying the money we have in the bank is being held not to strengthen the team but to fill the gap in revenue the moment we miss out on the CL.

  100. 6OONER PETE

    Oct 25, 2012, 9:02 #27123

    Watching Arsenal over the last few years has become so predictable and dull that I ended up watching something else after 50 minutes. I turned back to see Schalke get their first goal. It is pretty poor when I have no real affection for the team I have supported for over 40 years. I have Arsenal in my blood but all I am waiting for now is a change at the club that will make me once again have a passion for "That team we all adore".

  101. drizzle

    Oct 25, 2012, 8:54 #27122

    The Gervinho devate surely didnt improve after the Schalke beating. His play is hideous. You could measure his footballing IQ with a pair of dice. He did not deserve any form of applause when he exited the pitch. I feel embarrassed for Wenger every time the camera shifts to him whenever that idiot Gervinho makes a bad play. And unlike most Arsenal fans, I am not sold on Arteta. He seems like a player that is solely focused on his passing percentages and refuses to make any kind of penetrating plays with the ball. He is no different than Carrick at United: a kind of middle-man that only serves to move the ball between real attacking players.