It’s Football Jim, But Not As We Know It

Online Ed: Arsenal shade 12 goal thriller at Madejski



It’s Football Jim, But Not As We Know It

Theo – So much space, so much time


This was a hugely enjoyable football match for the neutral, on the level that a West End Theatreland Farce would be. And there were comparisons between the two for much of the time yesterday evening. Where to begin? Well, let’s say one man who would have enjoyed this thoroughly would have been Alex Ferguson, because if Arsenal play like this on Saturday, we could see another 12 goals going in, although I fear Gooners might not be celebrating so many of them as at Reading.

Granted, this was a second string Arsenal, but that also gave us the opportunity to gauge the strength in depth of the squad. After 40 minutes, the results were not encouraging. Laurent Koscielny’s performance put him on a par with other legendary Wenger centre backs such as Igors Stepanovs, Pascal Cygan and Philippe Senderos. It was hide behind the sofa stuff. Worst of all was that, even if the players were unfamiliar playing together, there was nothing in the way of spirit or desire to win a football match, or their individual battles. I won’t bother listing the guilty players, but no-one came out of the first 45 minutes with any credit, including some notable experienced names. “We want our Arsenal back,” sang the travelling support loudly.

Having said that, I could actually see Arsenal pulling four goals back if only because they had enough time, and Reading have such a poor record this season, indicating fragility. Theo Walcott’s goal before the interval made this notion seem a little more plausible.

So the second half began and something very strange happened after a few minutes. The amount of space on the pitch was more akin to the 80th minute than the 55th, and it played right into the visitors’ hands. Chances aplenty were created and spurned, but there was no lack of encouragement going forward. Arsenal were effectively given the freedom of the Thames Valley, and although they left it late, they clawed back the equalizer at the death.

Some of Kevin Friend’s officiating does not stand up to scrutiny, and Arsene Wenger can only be grateful for his decision to play almost six minutes injury time before Arsenal leveled. A minimum of four minutes had been decreed, which meant he could legitimately play just short of five before blowing up. Reading did make a substitution in injury time, and Arsenal did score, so he presumably got the extra time from those two breaks in play. Thank the stars the fourth goal, which should have been awarded to Walcott, did not result in the goal-line technology debate, due to Carl Jenkinson’s determination and playing to the whistle.

No-one had explained the rules regarding the lack of replays in this competition to the players, some of whom threw their shirts into the crowd thinking their work was done for the evening. What this says about how the team is prepared for individual matches is something you can draw your own conclusions from.

Given what had gone on in the second half, you had to fancy Arsenal to take the tie, assuming retrieving their kit from the crowd didn’t take too much out of them. Then, a phenomenon which seemed about as frequent as sightings of Haley’s Comet – an actual Marouane Chamakh goal. It was that kind of evening. The Gunners still conspired to almost give it away by allowing Reading to equalize, but in the end superior fitness and quality told. A Walcott hat-trick and a second Chamakh goal, thus changing the analogy from space matter to London buses.

Was this the greatest match you have ever seen? Sky Sports would have you believe it. Me, I just saw incompetence and two poor teams. It really didn’t make sense at times. Yes, to win in this manner was definitely a great comeback, but to go 4-0 down to a team in the relegation zone when your own line-up features five international players tempered things a bit. It was certainly dramatic, but I am not sure I really want to watch matches like this when Arsenal are involved in them. I still struggle to come to terms with that 5-4 win at the Lane in 2004-05. There was something about that game that just did not make sense.

The optimist might believe this could provide some kind of psychological springboard for the season, and I would certainly listen to the ‘our name’s on the cup’ theory after the two injury time goals that took it to 4-4. However, the disorganization and lack of determination as the first half goals were sailing past Martinez was alarming. That this was a second string line-up is no mitigation for the lack of conviction and focus. Let’s hope for a serious improvement on that front when Arsenal go to Old Trafford on Saturday, because if they go four goals behind there, they won’t be throwing shirts into the away section at the end (even if they’d need a cannon to reach it).

The 25th anniversary edition of The Gooner will still be on sale at the away games v Man Utd and Schalke. It can also be bought online here. There is an e-version of the issue available to read on your ipad/tablet/iphone/android. The app is free and you can download the first few pages of each issue as a taster before deciding whether or not to purchase the whole thing


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253
comments

  1. Jamie

    Jan 27, 2014, 13:43 #44732

    Eddie get a life

  2. Peter Weena

    Jan 25, 2014, 12:53 #44658

    Go take a valium Bard. If you listen to Wengers interview he never criticised anybody. You along with plenty of other half wits on here should smash your 'Media and Mourinho idols' and decide which camp your in 'Jelly Goon'.

  3. BADARSE

    Jan 24, 2014, 19:51 #44638

    Bard that westlower comment was apt. For goodness sake think about what you are saying.

  4. Bard

    Jan 24, 2014, 19:21 #44637

    Westie; Opinions, opinions, thats what it's about. I'm neither for or against Wenger, I support Arsenal and if i dont think the manager is doing everything he can to win us trophies and titles then i give my opinion. But manager worship is not my thing, it's a dangerous business. The Spuds comment is a pitiful response, it belongs with all the other posts I read on here when someone has the audacity to suggest the Wenger cant turn water into wine. Its a serious case of hero worship Westie, you need help.

  5. Westlower

    Jan 24, 2014, 18:38 #44636

    @Bard, A fragmented supporter base is a recipe for failure. Arsenal didn't adopt 'Victory Through Harmony' by chance. It has a deep meaning with loyal Arsenal supporters who you choose to mock by saying 'they worship at the temple of Wenger'. Spurs supporters couldn't come up with more disparaging words. Shame on you for treating your fellow Gooners with disdain.

  6. Bard

    Jan 24, 2014, 17:57 #44635

    Peter Weena; Sorry mate will continue with my views whether you like them or not. A suggestion for you and its a good one, dont read what I have to say if you dont like it, its what I do when I see the names of posters who worship at the temple of Wenger.

  7. Tom O'B

    Jan 24, 2014, 16:34 #44629

    Being top right now aint a bad place to be to want to win the league. Hoddle - anodyne at the best of times, revered - as is their wont - at the Lane but just ask him to produce any English league title medals. Always inferior to Brady - always. Can we also just remind ourselves to have a good long laugh at the Mancs. The perennial 'big spenders' getting out-spent AND, this how 'classy' they are, whingeing about it. £28m for Veron anyone?

  8. jeff wright

    Jan 24, 2014, 14:08 #44624

    Reggie,I doubt that Ferguson thinks that signing Van Pursie was a mistake - after all he helped him to win the Prem and Arsene was made to look an idiot when providing a guard of honour for Ferguson's crew RVP included when they strutted out at the Emirates as champs with us finishing 4th place chumps. The idiots are those who believe that Wenger was right not to replace RVP with another top striker . You would have to be an idiot to think that signing Giroud has done so. Can we win the league of course we can ,we can also win the Champions League and the FAC. The Super Cup and World Club Cup. Our chances of winning anything ,including the FAC ,would be enhanced though if we had a stronger squad . It's hardly rocket-science to work that out. Why is Wenger bothered about United signing Mata is the question and even an idiot can work that out.

  9. BADARSE

    Jan 24, 2014, 14:00 #44623

    westlower, memories usually serve us well in their favourable distortions. Of course circumstances are always needing to be factored in. I remember on one occasion a new lad came to training once. He wasn't the most adept but got a start in an easy cup game. We won 7-1 in an expected victory. The astonishing thing was he scored 6 of them,(I got the other and mine was better than all of his put together, so there!) Thing is he didn't score in the next half a dozen games he played for us, but more never looked like scoring. Of course he never looked like scoring any of the 6 he did score that day. A complete enigma. I was deeply suspicious the first time I saw him that day, as he came to the match with a rolled up brolly! Life is peculiar, people more so.

  10. Peter Weena

    Jan 24, 2014, 13:24 #44621

    Bard,Can you stop your rantings and all this sphincter talk.

  11. Westlower

    Jan 24, 2014, 12:47 #44619

    @Badarse, Some people may be surprised that Podolski & Giroud have a higher goals scored rate (albeit at a lower number of games) than Radford, Kennedy, Bergkamp, Pires, Anelka, GG, Smudge, Nicholas. etc. Who'd have thought Bendtner can match Charlies goal scoring feats? Funny how the memory distorts!

  12. BigDave

    Jan 24, 2014, 12:13 #44618

    As far as I can see, there are two questions. Will Arsenal win the title? Can Arsenal win the title? How can anyone say NO to the second question?

  13. BADARSE

    Jan 24, 2014, 12:06 #44617

    Hi westlower, back from the shops and put those new 'Go Fast' stripes on Ron's Zimmerframe, it's a little gesture as he beat us both in the 20 feet dash last week. You know looking at the stats it just brings into sharper focus how many top men we have had at the Arsenal. Read the profile by Peter Le Beau on Joe Baker in the Gooner. I couldn't read it without thinking of Ron, though Joe was a great favourite of mine. In 1963 as a 15 years old I tried to chat up a girl at the seaside. When asked my name I said, 'Joe Baker.' I thought his name was the greatest name you could have. It made me think of a dart. Odd child I was.

  14. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 24, 2014, 12:03 #44616

    Bard, and spot on to you too, you couldn't make it up, did/do we really expect anything else, it's all right for him to do it but well dare anyone else, another conspiracy i wonder are any referees involved.

  15. Westlower

    Jan 24, 2014, 10:14 #44615

    AFC Goal scorers continued: T Drake 167 (124) 74.2%; C Buchan 102 (49) 48%; B Kidd 77 (30) 38.9%; O Giroud 54 (20) 37%; L Podolski 38 (14) 36.8%; A Skirton 145 (53) 36.5%; D Suker 22 (8) 36.3%; R Kennedy 158 (53) 33.5%; R Pires 189 (62) 32.8%; J Radford 475 (149) 31.3%; S Wiltord 104 (32) 30.7%; D Bergkamp 315 (87) 27.6%; G Graham 227 (60) 26.4%; C George 133 (31) 23.3%; G Eastham 207 (41) 19.8%; J Sammels 215 (39) 18.1%; L Chapman 23 (4) 17.4%; J Hawley 20 (3) 15%; C Wreh 28 (3) 10.7%

  16. BADARSE

    Jan 24, 2014, 9:54 #44614

    westlower, got to pop out to get mine and Ron's prescriptions. Keep my place in the queue buddy. Be back later. Do you still want me to pick up a copy for you of, "Me life 'n' times with Rosie, by her master 'Arry"?

  17. BADARSE

    Jan 24, 2014, 9:37 #44613

    Very interesting stats westlower. I note Francis Jeffers is bottom of this compiled list, does that mean I win the coconut?

  18. Westlower

    Jan 24, 2014, 9:13 #44612

    @Ron, Badarse, Selection of leading Arsenal goalscorers strike rates, league goals only: T Henry app 258, goals 175 67.8%: J Baker 144 (93) 64.5%; D Herd 166 (97) 58.4%; I Wright 221 (128) 57.9%; M McDonald 84 (42) 50%; M Charles 60 (28) 46.6%; T Woodcock 131 (56) 42.7%; D Jenkins 25 (9) 36%; F Stapleton 225 (75) 33%: A Smith 265 (86) 32.4%; C Nicholas 184 (54) 29.3%; C Addison 28 (9) 32.1%; K Campbell 166 (46) 27.7%; P Merson 289 (78) 27%; M Hayes 102 (26) 25.5%; B Gould 65 (16) 24.6%; N Bendtner 106 (24) 22.6%; N Quinn 67 (14) 21%; F Jeffers 22 (4) 18%;

  19. Ozzie

    Jan 24, 2014, 8:22 #44611

    Never mind fellas, you can always watch the...cricket :)

  20. Bard

    Jan 24, 2014, 8:05 #44610

    Jeff Wright; spot on. The moaning about Mata is scarcely credible. RVP, Clichy, Nasri all sold to rivals. Genius from Muorinho as some of the rivals still have Untd to play. Wenger still spouting on about Sanogo nearly back. Someone from PR needs to tell him that is a stupid and demeaning comment. Chelsea buy 2 players to strength, Unt buy Mata we're rabbiting on about Bendtner and Sanogo as credible alternatives. 7 days to go and it's not looking too hopeful that we are going to buy anyone that will make a difference to the current challenge. Still not to worry, we're a very well run club; we're building for the future and can look forward to mounting a serious challenge next season or the one after that or the one after that depending on whether we can buy any top class players for under £50 and not a penny more.

  21. Reggie

    Jan 23, 2014, 23:09 #44606

    When Arsenal sold Van Useless B.a.s.t.a.r.d to Manure the fans went into meltdown. Now we are seeing once again what a genius Wenger is, and also how stupid a lot of our fans are.

  22. BADARSE

    Jan 23, 2014, 23:04 #44605

    Ah, Bobby Gould! Loved him all the while he was with us. I was right behind the goal at Wembley when Gouldy equalised in last minute or so against Swindon to force extra time in 1969. That award winning photo was taken right there, right then. Learned later his blind father was there that day. How overjoyed he must have felt at that moment, only to have his hopes dashed half an hour later. With all it's gnarled lumpy bits, warts and all, there is nothing on this earth to rival the emotional roller coaster ride you get from following a football team so passionately. I wouldn't trade a moment of my support for Arsenal. It's been the most magnificent journey throughout my life. How about David Bentley? Always feel when you write his name it should read David Bentley Tragic. Such wasted promise.

  23. Charlie

    Jan 23, 2014, 20:51 #44603

    Would you rather win A.Champions League. B.Premiership or C.Virtual Trophy and FA Cup.I can't decide.

  24. Ron

    Jan 23, 2014, 20:01 #44602

    Have to agree, AW looks a bit of a knob moaning about the Mata thing. TBH im with JM on him, i don't reckon hes that hot either. They've ripped MU off a treat at that price for him. Utd are desperate beyond belief and Moyes is desperate to be seen to make a mark there. Its pathetic really. Guys - Gouldy! Hed run through a wall wdt he. Liked Hayes really. He did give it his all at least. Julians and Charles both before my time.

  25. Westlower

    Jan 23, 2014, 18:27 #44599

    @Ron, Badarse, Len Julians, Colin Addison, £45k signing from Forest, Bobby Gould £90k signing from Coventry.

  26. BADARSE

    Jan 23, 2014, 18:22 #44598

    All good offerings westlower and Ron, how about Eddie McGoldrick?

  27. Westlower

    Jan 23, 2014, 17:44 #44594

    @Ron, Badarse, How about David Jenkins & Martin Hayes?

  28. jeff wright

    Jan 23, 2014, 17:28 #44591

    So, as many of us predicted , no new signing in this window by Arsene . His comments about Mata going to United are pathetic, considering his own record in selling our best players to rivals ,including Chelsea and United . Only Wenger could could come out with comments like these. Still although we have no new signing we can draw comfort from having won 90 points in the league,albeit it's just the last calendar year and not this season. This makes stats just another pointless set plucked from thin air to try and claim that everything is going well.. The reality is that during this 90 point run we only just finished 4th last season - 16 points off the top - and the only thing that counts is where we finish this season on the last day . Wenger not signing another striker could play a part in deciding this. I appreciate that top ones are not easy to get in this window, and that Wenger's obsessions with the CL rules out signing any that are cup tied .It would be signing a striker on a short term deal with Bendy still on board and on 50k a week .Of course if Wenger had not been so inept last summer in his transfer dealings then he would not be in the position that he is in with having to depend on Bendy for a back-up if, or when , Giroud runs out of puff or gets injured. I can see why Wenger is worried though about the Mata signing because he has a good goal scoring record against us and along with Rooney and RVP of whom Wenger sold to United course . Wenger should have have kept quiet though Mourinho will be laughing at his comments .

  29. Mark

    Jan 23, 2014, 17:28 #44590

    Thing is, we've seen this on a few occasions in recent years - 08, 2010, 2012 where we were in similar positions only to bottle it. Don't get me wrong, I would love us to do it and in theory there's no reason why we can't. City won't keep playing as well as this, it's whether they can win when playing badly, something I haven't seen them do this season but we have. However, we need to beat the top teams, at least at home and then the belief will flow and that MAY just see us through. Until then it will probably be the same story because this has happened many times. We should strengthen, however Wenger says unlikely and this is demoralising. If Aguero, Negredo get injured then fine but what about Mertesaker or Koschielny? Same position for us I'm afraid. We've been top in March not so long ago and the wheels fell off, we have to learn but until I see us turn over a top team when it really matters I'm afraid the doubters will remain. However, WHO CARES? Because the Arsenal have never been a popular team, the only reason the media like us now is because we don't win anything!

  30. BADARSE

    Jan 23, 2014, 17:24 #44589

    Ron, Francis Jeffers? Mel Charles?

  31. Ron

    Jan 23, 2014, 17:05 #44588

    Westie - Just trying to think of a historic Arsenal striker equivalent to Mr Soldado? Im struggling. Lee Chapman? Though LC was prolific by comparison. John Hawley? Or am i beig unkind to even JH? Paul Mariner? What you reckon? Even Nic B seems world class by comparison!That spud spending spree on that pile of junk(and i mean all 7 of em) hasnt had any truly bad press coverage. Have you noticed? Spud freindly media, for some bizarre reason.

  32. Westlower

    Jan 23, 2014, 16:21 #44586

    @Danny/Finsbury Joe, Good to see you've finally recovered from your cup exit. Never nice to be knocked out by your classy neighbours. AW simply can't find anybody good enough to enhance our squad - it's so difficult when the current set of players has taken us to the top of the PL. Maybe if we bid £40m for Soldado, Daniel would consider making a quick buck on your star free-scoring striker. Be very grateful AFC improved Adebayor into a decent striker as you'd be in the bottom half without him.

  33. Janet

    Jan 23, 2014, 14:34 #44581

    Most folk including Gooners were predicting we wouldn't finish top four so even if we only win the Virtual trophy you gits can't really complain.

  34. Ron

    Jan 23, 2014, 14:26 #44580

    BADARSE - Yes, for all our different takes on the game and our Club, i firmly believe that Arsenals class, tradition, heritage and reputation stands alone and that NO other Club can call upon the same facets. I fairness, ive seen many Clubs and other teams players say as much many times. If and when Arsene ever goes any new Coach has to be steeped in its knowledge or learn it quickly as Arsene has done and hes never failed to ignore it in all his dealings and decisions, whether we deem them right, wrong or indifferently. This is why such as Mourinho wd never fit at Arsenal as he s philistine in such matters. He even besmirched Reals grandeur, prestige and history in his short time there and thats why the Spanish cant stand the gobby little runt.

  35. BADARSE

    Jan 23, 2014, 14:11 #44579

    Ron your overview of world sport is one I share. I think if anyone, or anything can reverse the trend, halt the demise, or at least slow the fall it is Arsenal. We have a reputation, through our history and heritage greater than ourselves. We the fans are the custodians of any fine traditions followed, particularly the Old Guns. It is a difficult task to contend with the new kids on the block, who are entrenched with profit margin outlooks, but so what. Better to go down fighting than to bow out with a whimper. Forward Arsenal!

  36. Ron

    Jan 23, 2014, 14:02 #44577

    Hi BADARSE - Right with you on int'l football mate. Used to so love it years ago, you know, Mooro, Hurst,Frannie Lee, Charlton, Keegan days et al. Eriksson killed it off stone dead for me vis Eng and coupled with the media dross for so long about 'the golden generation'bla bla and the utterly dislikeable factions of eng players of the last 12 years or so, it leaves me cold.Ill check out the odd game here and there but thats as far as it goes.The politics of the WC are truly gut churning arent they? The PL s heading the same way mind you for me. I just hope Arsenal can re kindle some faith in it!

  37. BADARSE

    Jan 23, 2014, 13:39 #44575

    Afternoon Ron. Ta for wading in. No my point was one of human failing to a point of being bloody minded. International football genuinely tires me and have no interest whatsoever in the WC next year. It will be the Coca Cola/ Budweiser games anyway, like all international events. A way of dressing up the product to look good and enormously wholesome with the sole objective of skinning the populace. When they take a bite they find it's like candyfloss, with very little substance. Conspiracies? Well the definition with the corruption of most things now is contestable. The old Eurovision Song Contest had near-neighbours voting for each other, or offering no points to political enemies( perhaps it still does). Nothing was done, just making the whole thing a comedy show. Sky is your trademark gripe old mate so how about this re your post yesterday. Fancy trying to explain to a blind from birth person what the sky is, and then if/when he has grasped that move onto the subject of describing what 'blue' looks like.

  38. Ron

    Jan 23, 2014, 13:20 #44574

    BADARSE - Recall that Final well. The Ger pen was defo a'lets redress the balance'one. Not sure if youre ref point here alludes to conspiracies, but if you want a clear conspiracy, look no futher than the 1978 WC. Argentina winners - Kempes, Tarantini, Ardiles and Co - all now documented and admitted as a fix up to ensure Arg won it. Recall those games where Argentina needed to thrape some team, might have been Peru by 4-5 goals if memory serves me right. They got 6 or 7. Many of us then suspected Peru threw the game for Arg. Its all come out in the last few years. This WC in the Summer. Its Brazils. Nailed on. Their economy nneds the win, the risk of civil strife is so great if they get turned over. Brazils a powder keg. The rest of the teams neednt go really. Corrupt as f--k football is now.

  39. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 23, 2014, 13:20 #44573

    WeAreBuilding, he already has/is mate.

  40. BADARSE

    Jan 23, 2014, 13:09 #44572

    On the subject of referees I offer this. I am doing this from memory so please tweak the memory button for me if you can gentlemen. I remember the 1974 World Cup Final( my first in colour, as had just acquired one), and an Englishman reffed it, Jack Taylor. He was famous for awarding the first penalty in a Final, and it only took a minute of play. Holland led, think it was Neeskens. Twenty minutes or so later he awarded one to W.Germany, for 'an attempted trip'. To kick or attempt to kick is worthy of a penalty in old money but the currency has changed to one of' was there contact?' Anyway that was not the issue for me. What angered me was that the next day he was shown footage of a Gerd Mueller goal(think that's right), which he ruled out as offside. The film showed it was clearly onside. The man never had the magnanimity to smile and say he had got it wrong, and defend his decision by saying that in real speed it's difficult etc. He bluntly insisted it wasn't a goal, and dismissed the question put before him. Respect for him evaporated instantly. In my lifetime I have discovered so many feet of clay at the end of people's legs.

  41. Green Hut

    Jan 23, 2014, 12:56 #44570

    Ozil's Shinpads- Re the financial disparity context that I'm apparently not interested in, this from one of my posts in the recent 'A Twenty Game Assessment' blog- 'I don't see people arguing that we have had the money to consistently outdo City, Utd and Chelsea over the past 8 years. I certainly don't argue that'. And from the same post re our cash balance that you surprisingly mentioned (most AKBs pretend it doesn't exist)- 'Not asking or expecting for a change in the football landscape, just hoping that the manager is willing to use every resource available in the pursuit of glory whenever opportunity knocks'. Obviously you read some of my posts, but clearly not enough of them.

  42. John Gooner

    Jan 23, 2014, 12:39 #44568

    Great news! Wenger doesn't feel he needs to make any signings in January and has instead decided to complain about the January transfer window and its lack of fairness. Good bye title challenge and hopefully goodbye Mr Wenger!

  43. radfordkennedy

    Jan 23, 2014, 12:10 #44566

    Westlower..sorry late in replying at a funeral yesterday afternoon and it all got out of hand afterwards the old stories and the rum and brandies flowed endlessly needless to say I feel like I've had a tongue transplant today..anyway I checked up on the betting coup yesterday,my god mate if it wasn't bent then I don't know what is..one horse won at evens having opened at 4s and another won at 4-7 having not run for700 days!!,but as Ron says proving it is another thing and as curly is a millionaire the newspaper report was 3 paragraphs I suspect if it had been an ordinary joe like me as the chief conspirator it would have been a full page.Have enjoyed reading the posts on conspirices and refs,to be honest I think we've all seen what we believe to have been a bent game more so I think in lower league football where there's no cameras,but again its prooving it as Donavon said you may as well try and catch the wind

  44. Ozil's Shinpads

    Jan 23, 2014, 11:57 #44565

    Green Hut - Hey, whilst we're being comprehensive with our contexts, why not consider what HAS been achieved in the last 8 trophy-less seasons and what resources our competitors have at their disposal? Not interested? Thought not - because "8 years blah blah" and "£150m cash balances blah blah" is all you're interested in. "That context thing" really can be annoying, can't it?

  45. Reggie

    Jan 23, 2014, 11:51 #44564

    If you were all super fans like myself, Home and away every game, never critical of the team, Season ticket the best seat in the house. All the chicks dig me, I earn lots of money so I buy all the latest merchandise and then because I'm so charitable I toss it to the losers in the lower tier. Super fans like me keep our great club where it is today not jelly spined mummy's boys who just like to whinge.

  46. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 23, 2014, 11:44 #44563

    Sorry to puncture the positivity again, Westlower, but the 38 games that count are the ones that run from August to May. I'll make the point again - we have yet to see if this team do it when it matters. You should save your dismissals of all voices that don't accord with your own until May. Or if events 'conspire' that mean you can't at that time, blame the refs.

  47. Westlower

    Jan 23, 2014, 11:38 #44562

    The 90 points accrued from our latest 38 PL games equals the points total of the Invincible season. Proof if further proof were needed that this current team are far better than some give them credit for. This is one of the best periods in our history but still the criticism of the board/manager/transfer policy & certain players continues unabashed - go figure?

  48. jjetplane

    Jan 23, 2014, 11:20 #44561

    I remember Paddy Power. We used to chuck stones at his car as he slept off a sunday session. See Chuks scored another beauty so 'you who knows everything about football' better put a phone call into Crewe. Believe me - I know nuffink .... Keep up the educational posts Green Hut, SG, Mac and Ron. On no! PP used to work at St Mary's. The Yikes factor conspires to make me ..... well laugh.

  49. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jan 23, 2014, 11:08 #44560

    Westlower @08.51; the only reason Alan Brazil loves his mate "DAVY" so much is that he's a fellow sweaty. Bit like Stan Collymore and his mate Jamo - David James - who he always kept bigging up, presumably cos they used to go clubbing together. Pretty obvious to me, that Moyes, at a club of that stature, together with a major rebuilding job required, is well out of his depth. Still, he can always blame the refs for that.

  50. Reggie

    Jan 23, 2014, 10:59 #44559

    Stop being so negative all you nominal fans who are bitter because you've thrown in your season tickets, you glory hunting fools. Just think yourself lucky your not in Man utd's shoes left with no chance of winning the champions league and fighting for the virtual trophy with the chickens, victims and toffee yogurts. Now Chelsea have sold Mata Arsenal and City benefit, Chelsea are weaker, Game on.

  51. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 23, 2014, 10:52 #44558

    Westlower, we could get into a debate about the definition of 'falling away' I suppose e.g. 'the three Bs' in spring I saw as falling away. We of course never entered the title race last season so could not fall away from that. But I suppose the late sequence of results leading to 4th place meant that for some it was a strong and successful season.

  52. Westlower

    Jan 23, 2014, 10:46 #44556

    @Ramgun, Further to your point re goal difference, the other good indicator for potential Champions is the ratio of goals for/against. The last three seasons Champions had ratio's of 2/1; 2.8/1; 2.1/1. At present Man City lead the way with 2.5/1, AFC 2.2/1, Chelsea 2.1/1, Liverpool 1.9/1, Man U 1.3/1 & Spurs 1.1/1. @SGRB, We did not fall away last year as we had the strongest finish in PL, that's why we're 8 points clear of the pack over the past 38 games played in PL.

  53. Ramgun

    Jan 23, 2014, 10:23 #44555

    Yes Simon, of course it is true that points decide. The fact remains that in nine of the last ten seasons the champions have had the best goal difference - starting with us in 2004.

  54. Green Hut

    Jan 23, 2014, 10:19 #44554

    Westlower- If there has been a difference between media criticism of Wenger and Moyes this season (I'll take your word for it) it is because Moyes is barely 6 months into his job, whilst Wenger is 17 years into his with the last 8 being trophyless. It's that context thing again.

  55. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 23, 2014, 10:01 #44553

    Weslower, the evidence on whether AFC are to fall away or not will be given over the next 2-3 months. Unfortunately, no prizes are given out for the last 38 matches. Precedence tells us that Wenger teams fall away at the business end of the season. We will see if the current team buck the trend and do it when it matters. Viewed in this way, perhaps it is not so 'incredible' that Wenger still has his critics, nor that to criticise the man means you 'know nothing' about football. Nor does doing so indicate a belief in one's own infallibility.

  56. BADARSE

    Jan 23, 2014, 9:33 #44551

    westlower, human nature is the devil in all this. The herd mentality exists no matter that perceived strongly-willed, independent-thinking individuals deny that it affects them. It does, but of course to varying degrees. If you begin with a dislike of an individual, object, topic or whatever, it takes a seismic shift to alter and amend that original perception. Brazil is a narrow viewed, shallow and silly little yesterday's man. He is bigoted and prejudiced. He cannot change. That is the cross he will carry to the grave, and bloody good riddance! In a natural forum as in a group of people sitting around a café table awaiting the nosh, he would be listened to, his views contested, his glaring inconsistencies high lighted, then summarily dismissed as a fool, not a clown. A clown can be amusing and entertaining, a fool is taxing and an irritation. If only Brazil was as clever as me, ha ha.

  57. Westlower

    Jan 23, 2014, 8:51 #44550

    @Badarse, The media difference between reporting the perceived AFC crisis and Man U present crisis. TalkSport presenter Alan Brazil was screaming for Wenger to go after the Villa defeat. Contrast that with the sympathy & support he has for DAVY this morning. By definition of some, that must make Brazil a Moyes apologist! By the Racing Post definition, does that make Brazil a clown for criticising Wenger?

  58. Mike

    Jan 23, 2014, 8:27 #44549

    Who was that brilliant goalkeeper playing for Sunderland -he obviously moved there in hope of silverware - btw, that was probably Man utds only route into Europe next year

  59. BADARSE

    Jan 23, 2014, 8:14 #44547

    Morning westlower, a scathing view but as with most elementary and basic assessments it is a valid yardstick to measure by. It would be very interesting to scrutinise under a magnifying glass his critics. As I have often said the people criticising Arsene Wenger for being inept clearly believe they conduct their lives at the highest level. No failures, reliable and trustworthy friends, far-seeing, a grasp on every aspect of life, devil may care attitude with no consideration to their pedestrian bosses as they clearly know better, and they operate in a perfect sphere of competence. They wish! Meanwhile back at the ranch Man.U lose again. De Gea confidence- shattering mistake. Out of the cup, and by a bottom of league side, don't meet their neighbours in the Final and will get constant stick because of their failure on that aspect. Moyes a beaten and broken man. Who says days in January are grey ones?

  60. Westlower

    Jan 23, 2014, 7:34 #44546

    Media narrative much more positive in today's Racing Post: Based on the last 38 PL games played, AFC have accumulated 90 points, Chelsea 82, Man City 80, Spurs 75, Liverpool 73, Man U 71, Everton 67. Despite some clowns claiming AFC were in crisis during this time. That set of figures provides compelling evidence that AFC are not about to fall away, as indeed do their performances themselves all season. Yet still, incredibly, Wenger has his critics, who just serve to prove that the quickest way to establish if someone knows nothing about football is just to ask them if they rate Arsene Wenger.

  61. Moi

    Jan 23, 2014, 1:39 #44545

    If wenger fails to make at least one signing in this transfer window and come the end of the season we are merely qualifying for the CL again... it just will not do and he must be prevented from slipping back to his old passive ways which previously cost us dear season after season. I think Ozil signed on the promise that Wenger was building a team that will compete for silverware in coming seasons, if he does welsh on that there is no reason Ozil would stay in the long term and that would apply to many of the other players.. so his sometimes unbelievably stupid decisions could make or break arsenal's development as a work in progress team.

  62. Wenger Out!

    Jan 23, 2014, 1:02 #44544

    Grazie Vito for sparing City a bruising and mentally exhausting Final....!!

  63. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 22, 2014, 23:03 #44543

    I thought we were about to witness a conspiracy at Old Trafford tonight with the referee trying to put Sunderland's first Penalty taker off making him re spot the ball, but he must have changed his mind and went for Sunderland as he did it to Man u as well, or maybe he got a message from the lino reminding him it was Sunderland's turn.

  64. 1975

    Jan 22, 2014, 20:10 #44542

    It is very close. A handful of points between us. I think the pundits are assuming we will fail to pick up much from the games home to utd,city and away to chelsea and spuds. Not forgetting Liverpool away. We have played them all once. Won 2 lost 2 drawn 1. Pundits are assuming we will do no better in the return fixtures. That's not an outlandish assumptionfor anyone to make. They also assume city or Chelsea will better that tally. Im more convinced by city simply because of their forwards. But one outcome will do for them. Injury to kompany.

  65. Westlower

    Jan 22, 2014, 19:21 #44541

    @R/K, How strange that you mentioned a betting coup this morning because we have witnessed one this afternoon at Lingfield & Kempton. Were you involved R/K as it seems a bit of a coincidence? It'll be widely featured in tomorrows papers as the bookies are squealing loudly. The man responsible is reputed to be Barney Curley and his winnings estimated upwards of £2m. Outside of racing, his chief purpose in life is the charity he set up in Zambia. Sheikh Mohammed once gave him a £2.5m donation to help establish the charity. Barney Curley is one of life's good guy's but I doubt you'll be reading that anywhere tomorrow as the bookies count the cost of their bad day. Google his name and you'll discover some amazing stories.

  66. BADARSE

    Jan 22, 2014, 17:47 #44540

    Absolutely right westlower, many conspire in everyday workings. The gullible are sucked in and the trick, or scam has succeeded. jeff wright you are clearly not amongst the gullible I speak of, but you do keep suggesting things I know. Those gullible ones cause the damage, you and I perhaps see through the tissue of lies. The conspirators ignore us, we are too small a percentage and have no voice, get a voice and you could be knocked over, Dr. Kelly? Or at least hounded to an end conclusion if the person is vulnerable and unstable. All newspapers in this country are right wing, the Mirror less so as it always supports The Labour Party, but a right wing voice all the same. The Independent is neutral as is the Guardian. One thing though, conspiracies are becoming more difficult by the day as the Internet reaches every corner now, and there are many whistle-blowers.

  67. Westlower

    Jan 22, 2014, 17:10 #44539

    @Green Hut, I was not provoked, outraged or sucked in but I was surprised and thankful a newspaper had revealed a 4 year period in which we fared so badly when Dean was ref. @Badarse, Funny example of CONSPIRE in dictionary -' Rain & tears conspired to smudge (no, not Alan Smith) her carefully applied mascara.' Another definition is 'to combine so as to cause a particular result.'

  68. jeff wright

    Jan 22, 2014, 16:52 #44538

    Unchives,the Mirror always supports Labour and the other papers are in the main apart from the Lib lefty Guardinista always Tory . So nothing new there . No conspiracy involved though, newspapers are free to support whoever their owners deem that they should. Badarse the Lennon murder was committed by a nutter loser who wanted to be famous - if the CIA had been involved they would have whacked him afterwards to stop him from revealing anything a'la Lee Oswald . The fact that Chapman is still alive though suggests that he has nothing to reveal and we can consign this conspiracy theory to the dustbin of history along with no moon landings ,twin towers ,Elvis never died and the 1966 world cup was fixed for England to win it !

  69. Ron

    Jan 22, 2014, 16:42 #44537

    The trouble with conspiracies is that we ll never prove it.Its like seeing an elephant. You know its an elephant, but if youre ever asked to desecribe one to a blind person, you would maybe struggle to create an reliable image. The actors are the rich Clubs, PL and others in power, sponsors, TV companies, refs asscociation, movers and shakers in the Clubs etc. The purse string holders and those who depend on the game for gain essentially. All mutually interdependet. The only time you ll have your 'proof' is if you get into a position of being a necessasry stakeholder yourself to be deemed suitable to supplement their avarice and purposes. They all p--s in the same pot fleecing the punters for fun and denouncing anybody that challenges their hegemony as loonies and paranoic head cases. You might say why do refs bother for what they get paid? The answer is that theyre fundamental to the whole charade, they stand alone on a match day for 90 mins and if they dont conform at the right times, the whole edifice is rocked. The bungs thrown their way must be phenomenal and they get their kicks from being 'essential' and get to be on parade every week. Check out Howard Webb, look how he poses and preens himself like a big tart. At one time the best refs were anonymous, until Clive 'the book' Thomas (recall him do you fellow veterans?) decided they could have prominence in the early 70s and the rest have built on that.

  70. Green Hut

    Jan 22, 2014, 16:28 #44536

    Westlower- The Mail aren't Wenger apologists, but they love to provoke, outrage and suck in Wenger apologists with out-of-context stats. And they're clearly very good at it.

  71. BADARSE

    Jan 22, 2014, 16:12 #44535

    jeff wright, of course the trio of The Times, The Sun and Sky involved in the shenanigans mentioned do not constitute a conspiracy, I said as much. The only openly veiled secret was that some people cannot connect the three as the same thing. I don't think we two are very far apart. I don't subscribe to outright conspiracy theories, for example, 'the Twin Towers', 'did we really land on the moon?' brigade. However am certain people have been assassinated by their own side to perpetuate the divisions between the two sides at loggerheads. I was asked if I thought John Lennon's death was government inspired. I said I didn't speculate on unknowns, but that it spoke volumes for USA foreign/home policy that a question such as that had credence. Unchives, go and lay down now, please.

  72. Unchives

    Jan 22, 2014, 16:00 #44534

    @Jeff Wright.I don't know whether there was a conspiracy, however during the last election campaign, 9 of the 10 main papers supported the Tories, only the Mirror was pro Labour, further, all these papers were controlled by Murdoch's media group. As for Murdoch's HEAD of COMMUNICATIONS....Coulson..... who then joined as Cameron's Head of communications...where is he now? There is a nice bunk bed waiting for him behind bars, maybe Cameron will visit. They are all in bed with each other.

  73. jeff wright

    Jan 22, 2014, 15:44 #44533

    Hello Judge Dread here,you are right Badarse that Murdoch owned all of the companies that you mention were fighting his case over the United malarkey. However there was no conspiracy involved because the essence of conspiracy is the agreement between two or more persons. A single person acting alone cannot be guilty of conspiracy. Murdoch was in breach of anti-monopoly laws and that was why the Tory government , who didn't trust him anyway, stepped in to put a stop to his antics. He never forgave the Tories and later switched his backing to 'New Labour' - and as they say the rest is history.

  74. Unchives

    Jan 22, 2014, 15:34 #44532

    @Badarse. Your right, I cant help myself. I woke up the other night having dreamt of getting on a night train and I notice the Manc Riley sitting in a corner of the train in an empty carriage. I sit opposite him & interrogate him about the famous 50th Game in Manchester,Totally ignoring his feeble corrupt excuses I open my Ripper type surgical bag and force feed him the football rules and a bunch of old whistles, finally forcing a corner flag up his Manure owned Jacksy, then he can try & flag for help whilst on his face.

  75. BADARSE

    Jan 22, 2014, 15:31 #44531

    Thirty years ago Arthur Scargill claimed the then Tory government were trying to close 70 pits. He was vilified in the Tory press as a liar. He tried to call the miners into action, and suffered at the press' hands unmercilessly. The cabinet with Thatcher at the head launched a character assassination job denouncing his claims as fabrications. Recently, due to the Governments thirty year secrecy law the truth was published-the Thatcher government had ear-marked seventy five pits for closure. Liars one and all, with no apologies. Conspiracy? No, I don't believe there are such things. Incidentally, in an earlier post I mentioned SKY trying to buy Man.U and failing due to government intervention. The Times and the Sun waged a war against the government on this decision-both are Murdoch owned. This qualifies as a conspiracy when a large chunk of the population cannot connect Sky, the Times and the Sun as one and the same entity.

  76. jeff wright

    Jan 22, 2014, 15:27 #44530

    I recall in his first season with us that Chammy's diving antics were on a par with those of other serial divers such as Bale, Young ,Suarez, etc. In fact we were awarded 14 penalties against United's 8 that season ,but we still failed to win anything! So much for sky-diving then. Old Mother Riley ,who brought our unbeaten run to an acrimonious end at OT by awarding United a pen, after Campbell stuck out a leg and Rooney a'la Pires v Pompey made a meal of it (Pizza anyone?)used to get conned regularly by the cunning United divers - and tbh he's not shown himself to be the sharpest knife in the draw since becoming the chief of refs . Wenger didnt do us any favours either when he won that appeal against little Eddy's diving antics by producing 'forensic evidence' that the Scots GK made some contact that forced Eddy into doing his dying swan impersonation. Platini and co used this to get themselves out of a hole they had dug themselves in regarding diving,which along with racial abuse they prefer in reality to ignore. On the strength of Wenger's case for Eduardo however Suarez is not guilty as well of diving against Villa last weekend, because there was minimum contact and that means , judged on Wenger's forensic evidence criteria ,that a foul had been committed. And if you believe that,then you will believe anything.

  77. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 22, 2014, 15:05 #44529

    Arsene Wenger arrived at training this morning scratching furiously at an itch in an embarrassing area (no not the strikers position) more in his groin area, it's not the first time this has occurred, and has Arsene wondering if there is a conspiracy against him, on closer inspection by the club doctor and medics it was diagnosed as a rash due to the way his boxers were being laundered, the laundry lady was quickly summoned for a dressing down as everything is usually her fault, in tears (nobody knows if it was laughter at the sight of Arsene standing there in his boxers or being on the brink of a nervous breakdown at being blamed for everything)sobbing she informed OGL she doesn't do his laundry, oh he replied then who is conspiring against me? the doctor asked what about your wife sir, no impossible Arsene replied, there can be only one group of people to blame for this conspiracy he replied, THE REFEREES it's all their fault.

  78. Westlower

    Jan 22, 2014, 14:45 #44528

    @Green Hut, The Mail newspaper (not known as AW apologists) highlighted that the 17 AFC games Mike Dean officiated between 8/2/2009 and 31/1/2013 AFC only won once. It's a win percentage of less than 6%. It's a drop of 50% on AFC's normal win strike rate. Thankfully, it appears somebody has had a word in his ear as we've won 2 and drawn 1 of our last 3 games where he's been the ref. We're watching you Mr Dean!

  79. Green Hut

    Jan 22, 2014, 13:45 #44527

    Mike Dean's career record officiating Arsenal games- Arsenal wins 20, Opposition wins 15, Draws 14. Arsenal yellow cards 77, Opposition yellow cards 83. Arsenal red cards 4, Opposition red cards 5. Arsenal penalties 2, Opposition penalties 4. Arsenal won the first 11 games Mike Dean officiated (until late 2004, ie when we were really good and winning titles), can't remember accusations of bias then. The oft-quoted Dean figures are from 2009-date (of course late 2008 we won the last 2 games he reffed but don't let the facts get in the way of a good story) during which time 14 out of 24 games have been against Utd/City/Chelsea/tottenham. The Wenger apologists on here can blame Dean for our defeats to Birmingham, Bradford and Blackburn if they like (if they didn't watch the games obviously) but they should really get over themselves and try and find another excuse for the manager's failings over the past 8 years.

  80. Ron

    Jan 22, 2014, 13:10 #44526

    Westie - Absolutely. The sale by Kroenke of his shares at the optimum market time is as sure as tomorrow being Thursday. Arsenal are the next to follow Man City. These who shout for the 40 Mill players to be bought left right and centre only need to wait, not campaign for it. Its only the Clubs natural traditionalism thats stopped it so far. It might be Usmanov and his crew. I dont know but its a fact that Abramovitch is a pauper compared to him. He knows he only has to wait, hence his quiet profile.

  81. Ron

    Jan 22, 2014, 12:56 #44525

    Unchives - I think that most of us there that day, if not already convinced that bent refs reign supreme, we re pretty well convinced of it afterwards. It was blatant that day. No efforts to disguise the corruption. It had to be that Arsenal lost that match. There was never going to be 'win 50'. We could have had 15 outfield players that day and 3 keepers and Manure were going to win. The PL was set up for Man Utd. Their blueprint was its guide. Only they were really ready for it hence their influence on it. The other 5 Clubs who shat on all the other Clubs (of which one was Arsenal) honestly thought they would have some of what Man Utd had and have developed since, the fools!As sure as night follows day, Man U will be back before you know it. Not under this mug Moyes, hes just an innocent, naive mug whos stepped into a kitchen that far too hot for him. Man U are a soap opera and the PL is the stage. Moyes is the stooge filling in time for a grand entry of a big new box office 'star' at the helm there. The PL needs a stulted Manure for the moment to preserve the myth and image that even the top Clubs can fall from grace.

  82. Westlower

    Jan 22, 2014, 12:54 #44524

    @Ron, If I tell that the three highest rated flat horses from last season are all owned by Qatari Sheikh Joann Bin Hamad Al Thani & the World Cup headed for Qatar It's not hard to imagine the Qatari's will distort (enhance) any sport they care to invest in. Maybe Stan will sell his shares to Sheikh Joann some time in the not too distant? It's a rapidly changing World & the major players are setting out their stalls.

  83. BADARSE

    Jan 22, 2014, 12:53 #44523

    Unchives, sit down, head between your knees and breathe. It is galling buddy, the powerlessness gets to you doesn't it? I used to (sometimes still do), rail at the TV, arguing with pundits or commentators, contesting points with politicians, refuting bland, blanket statements, and generally getting hot under the collar. If I spoke to others about the topic it would usually be skimmed over by them. Not important, am placing too much emphasis on it. Now I try really hard not to react, I often just bite the cushion 'til the filling comes out. Then I go and lay down in a darkened room with a cold compress on my brow.

  84. Unchives

    Jan 22, 2014, 12:37 #44522

    I have no doubt that referees are biased & the media side with Man Utd. ITV come across as ant-arsenal and extremely xenophobic,so much so that I had to make an official complaint! Howard Webb, Mike Dean, Graham Poll,have been bad enough, however the worst was MIKE MANC RILEY. After our unbeaten run came to an end in Manchester....after the most bias & disgraceful refereeing I have ever witnessed, they then went on to name him as Head of referees, work that one out.

  85. Westlower

    Jan 22, 2014, 12:28 #44521

    The biggest corrupt act of them all is FIFA selling their prize World Cup to QATAR. Football seasons around the World disregarded at the drop of a stash of money. The game has long since gone to hell in a hand cart full of greedy, selfish men! All we need now is Mike Dean to ref the final.

  86. jeff wright

    Jan 22, 2014, 12:16 #44520

    Hi Ron, I don't have any doubts that there is widespread corruption at work in football, but with the various tribal influences at work and the different sets of characters who own the clubs having their own agendas ,I believe that any conspiracies are concocted to try and protect the vested interests of the top clubs financially . United relied on Ferguson to keep them on top of the pile and without him they are struggling ,bent refs or no bent refs.

  87. Ron

    Jan 22, 2014, 12:01 #44519

    Jeff - Lots of talk on here right now about conspiracy theories at the one end of the spectrum and you mentioning the rank incompetence of refs etc who are scrutinzed to death via the sheer extent of TV s filthy grip on the game. Youre both right to different degrees i feel. The thing is the sheer extent of the incompetence you mention is simply the best 'cloak' to disguise the deliberate and cynical decsion making processes that refs and all officialdom engage in that occurs to sway a game one teams way. This is the reason for there being a shortage of refs and also the powers that be have a vested interest in making sure those that do refereeing are utterly feckless and clueless. The task of distingushing the incompetence from the corrupt is like wading through glue. Ever wondered why refs arent allowed to speak on games? Or, why when coaches kick up about them, theyre hidden away in the Championship for a while? No exposure preserves the corrupt practices. Theyre less averse to exposing it now in Italy and as the momentum builds there im of the view that the revelations here will eventually be shattering. The sheer cash flow that TV offers football right now is protecting it from full exposure. These foreign owners dont invest in football Clubs to lose. They do it as they know they wlll win or that theyre clout buys them total influence on the corruption methods 'menu'. Theyve bought the refs, the FA, the PL, the lot. UEFA, yes,with its own agendas accepted, are doing its best to fight whats happened in football here, yet Platini and Co (who understand) are just subjected to adverse press and TV coverage casting them as village idiots which most of the gullible happily swallow. Ever wondered why? Who controls the TV and most of the press here? Form your own conclusions matey.

  88. jeff wright

    Jan 22, 2014, 11:54 #44518

    Badarse, I don't believe that there are never any conspiracies, only that most of the claims about them are not true,or delusional even. Many of the things that you cite are not actually conspiracy theories in the meaning of that sense. Murdock was hoping to use United ,who had the most supporters at that time, for his own ends regarding SKY TV , it was all very transparent and was not a conspiracy ,those are carried out in secret.Tai I live in the world where referees make mistakes and every action they make is not pre-planned to bring about the demise of Arsene Wenger . Tbh he doesn't need any help in that respect, because history shows that if anyone can shoot himself in the foot then that man is Arsene Wenger .

  89. Roy

    Jan 22, 2014, 11:47 #44517

    I've never been one for conspiracy theories myself, but this Mike Dean thing is a bit spooky, isn't it ?

  90. Ron

    Jan 22, 2014, 11:30 #44516

    Morning Westie - I wonder if all of these clever accountant bookies are clued up on all the clever dietary tricks the owners use to ensure that one or more dogs will or wont perform at any given meeting? The owners know whos going to win or lose nearly all those dog 'races'. Such knowledge as i have has long told to me the owners are a cartel. Similarly with horses, the punters rarely seem to be aware that the laughable 'sport of Kings' is a game for the owners to maximize their stud wealth and has little/nothing to do with horses, jockeys and the punters or bookies. Anybody of limited means who cant afford to throw cash away on betting for the sheer fun of it (i.e its of no consequence if they lose) that bets on dogs and horses deserve to lose for their own stupidity in thinking its a game of chance. The whole lot of it is a fix. Nothing personal matey but Gamblers = Mugs. I dont believe there is a 'sport'of any type anywhere now that isnt corrupt and fixed and i include football, which has hit the slippery slope more so, since the slimball Murdoch tied it up like a kipper to suit his own ends.

  91. Westlower

    Jan 22, 2014, 11:11 #44515

    @R/K, There were a number of famous coups at the dogs including Dagenham & Rochester. If you want a historical read about betting, there's a book called 'Down the Bookies' written by John Samuels (not Jon Sammels), which you can get on Amazon. Don't buy any betting books by Paul Merson because he was crap at betting, in fact most footballers are, Stan Bowles, Kenny Sansom are other examples of clueless footballing punters. I've been in so many scrapes around the dog tracks in the 70/80's I thought about writing my own book. It'd certainly make you smile, said the actress to the bishop! Due to modern technology it's dam near impossible to pull a betting stroke these days. The bookies quickly sense when anything untoward is taking place & every bet can be traced on the exchanges. I suspect Man City's price was shortened up relative to the number of pundits proclaiming them as potential champions, rather than weight of money. The bookies aren't as bold as they once were, most of them today are highly educated accountants who simply don't gamble. It's all about damage limitation and profit margins. 99% of bookies derive their odds from the Exchanges betting market & follow that market like sheep. If you pulled off a massive coup today you'd probably be looking at a prison sentence. The best value bet(doesn't mean it will win) in the PL is betting both Chelsea & AFC to be champions because their prices lumped together is better than backing Man City on their own. Should City not beat Chelsea next week the odds will change again with City's price drifting. If it's a draw then AFC'S price will shorten. I've also backed Man U to finish 4th at 3/1.

  92. BADARSE

    Jan 22, 2014, 10:55 #44514

    jeff wright, when people post exchanges the ball goes backwards and forwards over the net. It never gathers pace but seems illogically to grow in size. 'I'm not a great believer...', means you don't believe they exist? Conspiracies do exist, at elementary mundane levels through to the echelons of power, history has informed us of this. Conspiracy to ensure that Arsenal fail, or another succeeds? Extremely unlikely to a point of dismissal, which I believe is your point, so am in accord with you on that. My view is that human nature plays it's part, and it can influence once a mind set, or the status quo is accepted. There are also Machiavellian maneuverings. This I think is a much cleaner, and more logical approach. BSkyB (Murdoch), held over 10%shares in Man.U. in the late 'nineties'. We were their only rivals then, it's why advertising for games on Sky TV usually showed a montage of Man. U in a dominant position perhaps scoring and their opponents in a less favourable light perhaps conceding, or at least defending. Murdoch tried to buy them but his attempt was blocked, for the right reason of conflicting interests. I think human nature is the biggest contributor, 'keep your head down, don't rock the boat', maintaining the established status quo. Back in our golden Highbury days it was mooted that the grandeur of our stadium impressed visiting sides so much that it was often said, 'we were a goal up before the sides took to the pitch.' Tweak it a bit and then cross the line and you have the start of a conspiracy.

  93. radfordkennedy

    Jan 22, 2014, 9:58 #44513

    Westlower....mornin mate do you remember the famous betting scandal at Clapton dogtrack in the 60s,it wasn't a new scam but it was the first time the peelers got involved,a gang of fellas came to the track and placed untold amounts of small bets forecasts mainly on the tote thereby creating a false market,the dog that was going to win which had the best time and track record then of course drifted in the market and at the alloted time 4 gentlemen in the crowd and more over the phone 'lumped on'big time,the winnings for the time were enormous.Now bearing that in mind and that you can place a bet anywhere in the world I'm of the opinion that city are such a good price because syndicates are doing similar to the above and creating a false market,by lots of small bets on us and chelsea,in amounts not large enough to turn the screen red in ladbrokes 'suspicios and abnormal betting patern office a major move on citys price is on the horizon I think

  94. Ali

    Jan 22, 2014, 8:49 #44512

    We are not favorite with the bookies and media pundits only because we have a rich history of collapsing and losing under pressure when it matters most under Arsene Wenger. So far, we have done everything right (apart from Utd game which could come back to haunt us) but we shall wait and see in the end of the season.

  95. Mike Walsh

    Jan 22, 2014, 8:39 #44511

    Comments below relating to officials and decisions are backed up by hard facts and are not a case of sour grapes. One example of this is the results of matches involving the referee Mike Dean who has repeatedly stitched Arsenal up I whenever he takes charge of our games, the facts speak for themselves. In the past Ferguson would have instructed the FA that he would not allow any referee who "upset" him to officiate another game at Old Trafford and believe me they would have obliged. During the recent Ciity / Arsenal match Toure got away without a red card for a horror tackle that was designed to seriously injure a player, ignored by the ref, not mentioned in the studio and not condemned in the press. Biased I may be but I would love to be reminded about any match this season when Arsenal have been been given the blatant support of the ref in his decision making or one of their players has attempted to seriously injure another player and the ref and the media have ignored it. On our title chances? yes I do think we can win it.

  96. Michael O'Brien

    Jan 22, 2014, 8:04 #44509

    I agree with you Tai, I watch the Gooners from all angles too - from 13.000 miles away in Aust and see things those who are close up do not. Suarez - what might have been? Who do you think will be a good compliment for Giroud up front? Someone like Bobby Pires would be ideal. What say ye? Go Gooners & stuff the refs!

  97. BADARSE

    Jan 22, 2014, 8:00 #44508

    First smile of the day, thanks westlower, my old friend.

  98. Westlower

    Jan 22, 2014, 7:45 #44507

    Another brilliantly taken goal by Gervinho in Roma's 1-0 win over Juventus last night. He's just what we need to replace Theo right now!

  99. Tai Obasi, Lagos

    Jan 22, 2014, 5:16 #44506

    Jeff ...In every League, a manager can decide to do another a favour...mind you, it demands another. That's different from officiating! Ferguson, after favours done him by Wenger by giving him RVP...Man U shouldn't have won the title without the Dutch...Ferguson came to The Emirates, celebrated the guard of honour, yet lined out his strongest squad. Despite having sewn up the title, United played as if they were fighting relegation, tried everything to win, knowing a win would very definitely knock Arsenal off top 4! Against Chelsea, the same Ferguson fielded a very weakened side, gifting Chelsea a victory, just to aid knocking Arsenal off same top 4. Gladly, what goes around, comes around. Man U will soon visit The Emirates, fighting for Top 4 while The Gunners gun for title. Arsenal must beat Man U...let Ferguson feel what I felt that day he nearly sent us out of Top 4! You can accept the conspiracy theory or live in your world...as I have thoroughly observed, it never evens out. Suarez was awarded a penalty for an obvious dive against Villa but denied blatant penalties against City and Chelsea...and you think it's coincidence?

  100. Dark Hei

    Jan 22, 2014, 4:34 #44505

    Got to disagree. IMO, Chelsea and City are the favorites with Jeff pointing out that it is logical to think that way. Here are a few reasons. 1. After a shaky start, both Chelsea and City are turning up in form. 2. City has the best GD. GD is usually the indicative stat for quality. The best team might not win the league, but the best team is usually the one with the best GD. 3. Chelsea is starting to win in JM manner of winning. And JM usually wins. His team might not be as good as City's but JM alone, with his mind games and what not, is a winning factor. On Arsenal side, I think the media noticed that we have a solid side. We are certainly better than the rest of the chasing pack, though there are doubts on whether we can sustain the charge given we have relatively less depth in striker departments. Some might say Wenger deserves the sack because we are short up front. But guys, it is no coincidence that the top 2 sides with the most quality personnel are the ones with disgusting amount of $$. Give Wenger a magical pot of gold and things might change? Another interesting caveat is Liverpool. Like us, they are miles apart from their own standing last year. Who gave them a chance in the summer? Everyone said they will bomb off or something, but they have sustained their charge quite well.

  101. Murphyr

    Jan 22, 2014, 3:27 #44504

    Who gives flying feck what pundits say? The level of most broadcast journalism is so terrible when it comes to football that i am pleased that no-one seems to fancy our chances this year. That said there are plenty of 'ifs' in the article and how can there not be? Ultimately we haven't won anything for nearly a decade and the only antidote to that will be to come first in something. Sorry to state the bleeding obvious. Maybe i should get a job at Sky?.....It is hard to negate the argument, banal though it is, that City and to a lesser degree Chelsea, have stronger squads than us. The article speculates what might happen if City's srikers get injured and their goals dry up. This is a much more pertinent question to ask of us with the load that Giroud is expected to carry at the moment.

  102. goonerD

    Jan 22, 2014, 0:07 #44503

    Has the distinct whiff of wishful thinking. Citeh's strikers may lose form,but then so might our midfield. Arsenal will benefit greatly from a big signing as a sign of intent, not just to rivals but to fortify confidence in the squad. If arsenal do win the PL it will have a lot in common with 71 (surely someone remembers?) when arsenal weren't favourites until the last few games.

  103. GoonerRon

    Jan 21, 2014, 22:26 #44502

    If I'm honest part of me gets annoyed when pundits largely dismiss our chances as (a) I think it's a bit disrespectful and (b) it's small minded as they daren't deviate from their early season predictions or risk going against the grain with anything but the commonly held views. That said, at the moment I'm loving the fact we are able to operate slightly off the radar and without the pressure of expectation. Inevitably if we stay at the top this pressure will naturally come but the longer we can go being underdog the better for me.

  104. jeff wright

    Jan 21, 2014, 22:00 #44501

    Tai , once you start all of this rewriting history it goes on forever and who knows where it can all end . We have had similar runs of decisions in our favour in the last few seasons . The conspiracy theorists were out in force after our fortuitous win at West Brom last game of the season a couple of years back when Hodgson in his last game as manager chose to play a rookie GK who gifted us 2 goals. I'm not a great believer in conspiracy theories though and accept Hodgon's explanation that he had no choice but to leave his numero one GK out due to him not being fit. Mind you even half fit he would must have done better than the clown he did play in goal! That result gave us 4th place over the spuds and CL football the following season ,ain't life a bitch. My view is that rather than far fetched conspiracy plots at work it's actually in reality a case of incompetence with these match officials , and unfortunately that is something that is not easy to overcome. The new goal line 'HawkEye' technology is a step in the right direction regarding balls over the line ,but even with replays the other issues are not always clear cut, as the Suarez did he dive incident last weekend showed . Even with the replay opinions were divided among everyone and the ref has only a split second to make his decision . I suggest you stop worrying about all of these conspiracy theories old chap the fact is that bad decisions have always been made throughout the history of football - they are just given more publicity these days with more cameras at matches and more pundits and media types commenting on them . Ferguson was a bully who certainly intimidated match officials,the media and the FA , he even had Arsene kneeling before him in the end , and that was rather sad to witness . Personally I don't believe that Wenger will get back to being the manager that he was way back ,he's too old now and set in his ways. Third place looks more likely than first and I don't think that he will need a helping hand from anyone to get it . Famous last words perhaps - but that is how I see it. Cheers.

  105. Alsace Lorraine de totteridge

    Jan 21, 2014, 21:07 #44499

    What matters it what the pundits say? It only matters what we do. Its doable because we have the players and we appear to want it more than any other team. Victory often goes to those who are strong with the force.

  106. Tai Obasi, Lagos

    Jan 21, 2014, 20:31 #44497

    jeff wright, maybe because I follow Arsenal from 3000 miles away in my country, Nigeria, I may have a better view than you do. I watch from my television and see replays from all angles...you watch live and may not have the cormfy of a second look...but from here, and keeping bias out of it, Arsenal are the most victimized team in the prem. Yes, penalties get saved but despite his form, Szczesny hasn't saved any of the three he's faced so far. If you do not see this bias, then you've been brainwashed into believing the officials are always right. Get out of it, mate...they never are, especially in England. Ferguson's Man U never played better than Moyes' own...but the retired Scot always got the decisions his way...and they count, mate...just one wrong decision in a big match can affect the outcome. In St James' Park, cancelling Tiote's goal gave City three points....in Stamford Bridge, awarding a penalty for Ramirez's dive gave Mourinho a point! At the Etihad, ruling Sterling offside gave City another three points. Did you watch how the ref made sure Arsenal got no point against Villa at The Emirates? You need to grow up, mate. Don't let your FA hoodwink you into believing it evens out. In Arsenal's case, it never does! And it's no coincidence, it's deliberate...Internal Revenue needs the taxes from bloated players' wages that both City and Chelsea offer and they need to be encouraged to continue spending!

  107. jjetplane

    Jan 21, 2014, 18:41 #44496

    Anyone seen that Chuks Aneke wonder goal for Crewe. Wenger has had the lad out on loan forever. Get him back now because if Ozil scored that goal he would be worth more than Suarez. An England youth international no less so get him on for february, get the family in and voila! Great posts as always Ron, Macguire, Jeff and the Bard. Citeh and Chelski are on another planet but there is something about this Arsenal team (its called Stevie Bould) and its looking well glued. Get Chuks back and leave Draxler for the summer. Hes a crock anyway. Right had me noodles and now its off for some Sussex div 2 league derby shanigans. You know the song - 'Chuk hes in love ..... ' Here Mr Rose - next blog take us for a tour around Arsene's Cribbbb.

  108. BADARSE

    Jan 21, 2014, 17:40 #44495

    Bard of course this is a site for opinions. You gave one, I gave mine. You suggest everything in the garden is rosy, I suggest that there are weeds and creepy crawlies in amongst the roses. Not ground breaking in it's way, but it seems to me and others that it influences the overall look of the garden. My comment was meant earnestly. As Voltaire said, 'I may not agree with what you have to say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.' A bit grandiose, but you get my drift. By the way the best smokescreen for conspirators is to put a hint of conspiracy out there, let people suggest one exists, then allow the ordinary folk revile it. Then the conspiracy passes unnoticed. Just a bit of information generally accepted.

  109. jeff wright

    Jan 21, 2014, 17:35 #44494

    Tai Obasi, the reason we are not 4 or 5 points ahead of city and Chelsea is down to us not beating Everton and Chelsea at home over Xmas - and also losing away to City during that run of games. City scored 6 goals against us so it's rather stretching things a bit to claim that we woz robbed by the ref! City made up a points deficit on us over Xmas and look now to be in better form away while we are not ,despite playing some average sides, in the sort of form that we were in up until the Everton game that we were winning against the run of play but ended drawing down to poor defending , that result was nothing to do with the ref. As for penalties they are only goals if converted and the fact that one should ,or might have been awarded, doesn't change this fact.They do get saved or missed. The pundits look at the overall picture and see us playing catch up now to go back to the top every-time our rivals play before us and we still have to play them all again. So it seems reasonable,given the strength of the City and Chelsea squads thinner and injury prone one, that they see those two sides as being more likely to win the Prem than us. Tbh, I'm struggling to think of a reason why they would not think that we are only third faves to win the Prem. Optimism is all well and good,but reality also has to play a part.

  110. northbank123

    Jan 21, 2014, 17:31 #44493

    Whatever your views on our chances I completely disagree that we aren't being taken seriously. We have been all season and BBC and Sky both made reference to the possibility of a 'two-horse title race' if Chelsea lost to United this weekend. The mainstream media outlets like Sky Sports are packed so full of well-groomed idiots who are petrified of upsetting people or putting their neck out there (like Jamie Redknapp) that I have only seen one or two pundits say we're not capable of winning the league. In fact you're far more likely to pick a random fan who thinks we're not capable of winning it than a random pundit. Although the media love it when we're struggling it would also be great for them if we won the league to be able to bill us as another top side instead of just an also-ran and to play up to this unpredictability/strength in depth angle they love.

  111. Westlower

    Jan 21, 2014, 17:26 #44492

    @Ron, My definition of 'herd' is people who gain comfort & contentment from agreeing with the common consensus on whatever topic you care to name. Equally the same view may be shared by an independent thinker who has rightly or wrongly arrived at the same conclusion(s). If I just landed from Mars and looked at the present positions in the league table I would make all three as 2/1(33%) shots as there is only the width of a fag paper between them. Anything less than 2/1 is bookies lowering the price to limit their payout should the 'popular' team win. AFC is the longest price 4/1(20%) of the three because of all the stuff Simon Rose has written above. If league positions are meaningful then realistically AFC have the same chance as Man City & Chelsea. If I was a bookie I'd be very pleased that I could lay a true 2/1 (33%) at Evens (50%) with two other live contenders taking them on.

  112. BADARSE

    Jan 21, 2014, 17:22 #44491

    Ron, funny how little points show themselves. I was obviously a GG fan, like yourself loved him as the 'Stroller', when he oozed class at Highbury on the pitch, then of course as a brilliant manager. Have always held a deep respect for Cloughie, a wonderful player too by all accounts. I can see the comparisons with Mourhino. George had so much charisma though compared to other managers, both then and now, he could have been a Hollywood heart throb, Mourhino has the personality of a half-eaten doughnut. Cloughie was a one-off, and rattled cages throughout his footballing life, my kind of man. Nice to have the same considerations about these managers.

  113. Bard

    Jan 21, 2014, 16:46 #44490

    Badarse: bent refs dodgey decisions conspiracy theories are the refuges of poor losers, got no time for it. List me the sides who have been deprived of the title over the last 10 years by dodgey refs and decisions and I might change my mind. I also thought this site was about opinions !

  114. Ron

    Jan 21, 2014, 16:44 #44489

    Westie - im a little unsure who 'the herd' are? If its all of those who dont agree with you that MC arent deserving favourites, can i just opt out of the definition please. I dont follow herds, i just take a look at what i see and take a view and ive seen City twice live this season plus a bit of pc 'streaming' here and there and highlights. Your rationale and judgement seems hamstrung by bookie logic. Thats irrelevant to me as their take is always a second hand, reactive perception, based on what they 'hear' or 'feel', like stock brokers do. I might say too that id no more waste p--s water on a bookie loosed off from a great height any more than i would an estate agent. Your bookie informed take on Man C is just a gut feeling in truth, speculative just like mine and others. Just because youre in a minority strikinng out v some notion of what consitutes a 'favourite' doesnt make you right and the all those who feel otherwise members of a 'herd'.

  115. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 21, 2014, 16:28 #44488

    Vin, i'm not disagreeing with your post and i'm sure your referring to the prem in it, but we also have an important game this Friday night in the FA cup.

  116. Ron

    Jan 21, 2014, 16:27 #44487

    Westie - Your post 47387. Cd be right mate, though all of their forwards at the same time takes some stifling. Agree that JM is a clone of GG, though some of his past Chelsea teams played like Cloughs best Forest sides too. Lets face it, GG and BC were both greats as is Mourinho. Ive never got onto the 'he plays boring footie' or 'that team bores to death' platform. Fans like a team who wins and crushes opponents, whatever it takes. There are many ways of playing football and as long as its not filth or brutality or by cheating, it never bothers me. The so called 'beautiful' way of playing is OK but its the preserve of very, very few teams and coaches. AW has been seduced by it for years in my view, no problems there, but hes overlooked the quality of player needed to execute it and as such his philosphy has been to the Clubs detriment. Though we and he have won freinds, we ve won nothing else. Pragmatism factored in might have rewarded us better. Have to say too that ive never seen Chelsea under Mourinho as a dirty side and save for the odd diver (as we all have had), theyre not cheats. I agree Citys defence can be shaky at times. Its OK as long as the goals dont dry up! As to the fixture congestion, i cant see us getting much change out of BM in the CL and to be honest an exit from a tourny we cant win will be a good thing. If it was me, i d be gunning for the FAC and the title push, blow the CL. The FAC is a nice 'insurance' trophy, if the title chase falters. I agreee wholly with you in that we could win the title, but i just feel its unlikely. We would need to ratchet up our performance by quite some level to knock out the other 2 Clubs. We ve not played particularly well of late either.I hope im oh so wrong, really do. Go go Gunners!

  117. BADARSE

    Jan 21, 2014, 16:23 #44486

    John, have I missed something? 'Martin Tyler says it's our best chance to win it for many years to come'? How does this person know that? We may find ourselves in with a better chance next season, or the one after that, ad infinitum. I am not in a gifted position to be able to make such a pronouncement, how does he earn that right? This season may prove to be a cornerstone season heralding a new dawn. It is equally speculative, isn't it?

  118. Westlower

    Jan 21, 2014, 16:18 #44485

    @Website editor, Thanks for the correction as Man City are at home v Chelsea on Feb 1st. My thoughts remain the same though as Chelsea could well be the team to ruin City's 100% home record. It would be remarkable if Man C won every home game as I doubt it's ever been done or ever likely to be done. Translating the odds to percentages the bookies reckon Man City have a 50% chance of winning the PL, Chelsea 27%, AFC 20%, Liverpool 10%, Spurs, Everton, Man U 1% or less. In other words the bookies think Man City have a better chance of winning the PL than AFC & Chelsea combined. They may well be proved correct but Man City don't represent a value bet at those under priced odds/percentages. Given the current league positions Man City's true odds should be 2/1(33%). Should Chelsea beat them in 2 weeks time and AFC continue to win, the market will be turned on it's head. Betting in football is very much game to game and it can change radically on the back of a couple of results. As Man City are not even top at present the bookies have got it wrong in my opinion. The 'herd' currently believe Man City will win the league and I'm sure the bookies won't discourage that rationale as they continue to sell an under-priced product.

  119. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jan 21, 2014, 15:56 #44484

    [email protected] - yes, Chelsea won the game at Stamford Bridge 2-1 earlier in the season. Mrs Dominate (ooer missus) who knows precisely nothing about football, told me after watching Man City - Cardiff that "they won't win it because they let in too many goals". She received the time-honoured reply "yes dear".

  120. Website Editor

    Jan 21, 2014, 15:47 #44483

    @Westlower - "Logic dictates Man City shouldn't be favourites because they're not top after 22 games and visit Chelsea in two weeks time." But would logic dictate that Man City should be favourites because Chelsea go to MiddleEastlands in two weeks time? Because if memory serves me, Chelsea have already played Man City at home.

  121. BADARSE

    Jan 21, 2014, 15:45 #44482

    Bard, sorry chum but I have spent my life offering rebuttals to your statement, 'things even themselves out'. It is a false platform to debate from. This is because it dismisses the argument placed before you, without using evidence, facts or structuring a logical argument. I describe it as a religious answer. A super being governs all so any argument against is spurious. Not so. Who is this great designer who establishes and safeguards all by ensuring 'decisions even out'? Oh were that it was so. That the baddie always got his comeuppance, that the bully was shamed, and good guys won. Nope, doesn't happen. Many crooks live remarkably full and enjoyable lives, many nice people have damaged existences. The statement is a cop out. It's derived from powerlessness and frustration. Take the statement away and basically you are left with, 'I don't agree'. The Suarez mention is a smokescreen and has nothing to do with corruption, which was the subject on the debating table. Sorry to seem a bit heavy, it is said with a gentle voice, but on the written page seems more strident than is meant. Just a pet irritation of mine.

  122. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 21, 2014, 15:27 #44481

    I see the refs are still getting blamed, but some have even moved on from that, lets hope the FA decided it's eventually Arsenal's turn this season.

  123. 1971 Gooner

    Jan 21, 2014, 15:26 #44480

    As much as I would absolutely love us to win it this year, and it's not impossible that we will, I think we will end up second or most likely third. Giroud tries 100% but that doesn't bridge the gap between him and the likes of Aguerro, Suarez and (whisper it quietly) RVP. I would take being three or four points off the Champions and nicking the FA Cup as a good season, and something to build on in the summer.

  124. Westlower

    Jan 21, 2014, 15:19 #44479

    @Ron, Boring Mourinho will squeeze the life out of Man City. He plays the percentages and only gambles when his side is behind. He is the nearest thing to GG in his pomp. Make no mistake AFC are very much contenders for the title. Life gets fuzzy once the CL fixtures kick in and FA Cup rounds/replays start to bite. City are in contention for too much and in my opinion their defence isn't good enough to deliver.

  125. Ron

    Jan 21, 2014, 14:21 #44478

    Westie - Respect buddy. I agree that we could beat any team on our day as i think City can, Chelsea too. The venue doesnt matter. Lets just hope we can carry on defying logic, reason and rationality. Wdt it just be great to celebrate a title against oil and filthy russian money!!PS Take the Mourinho factor away and i truly think Chelsea would be a very average lot matey. He s just so good at squeezing the maximum from what hes got and save for 2-3 players there, hes not got a lot better than us. City on the other hand .................. well, but then Mourninhos right when he says, they SHOULD be winning the title. Cmon the Gunners!

  126. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 21, 2014, 13:37 #44477

    Maybe the last nine potless years of not being good enough and always blowing it, and just scraping in third or fourth have something to do with it, and why like the media and so called pundits a lot of fans still aren't getting to carried away. Maybe they're just waiting to see if it's another false dawn or not and when or if it's not, every page, news channel, football programme will have blanket coverage and we'll be getting the praise we deserve, and the fans will be to pissed to care.

  127. Westlower

    Jan 21, 2014, 13:08 #44476

    @Ron, We'll reflect on our judgement's after the first weekend of Feb. Do you truly believe Man City are capable of winning at the Bridge? Are you sure you haven't been listening to the Sky pundits? The only team that will win at Chelsea this year is AFC (best away team in PL) - FACT!

  128. Ron

    Jan 21, 2014, 12:59 #44475

    Westie - You seem to have a real blockage over the two manc clubs. For years, whatever we think of them and save for when Chelsea have been clearly better than them, Utd have been by far the best side in what to many of us is a quite average quality league. Man C now are inferior to us based on being 2nd only. To suggest that they shdt be favourites just becauise of that half way through a season is absurd.Theyre fav s because theyve a stronger sqaud, theyre ramming goals past all comers, they play the best brand of football and seem to have a Coach who gets the measure of most of the others as results show. For heavens sake we were trounced up there, whatever you might reckon of the ref. Its right that theyre favs. Bookies change with the wind, so to minimise their anticipated losses and gauge things hour by hour to adjust accordingly. Its not the brainwashed they adore, its any daft mug whos daft enough to bet their hard earned on uncertainties who they love!

  129. Westlower

    Jan 21, 2014, 12:45 #44474

    @Highbury Boy, At the start of each season every team is priced to give bookies an overall profit whoever wins. Realistically only 3 or 4 teams are considered good enough to be Champions and make up over 100% of the market (bookies profits are derived when a market exceeds 100%, typically 125-130%) meaning 25-30% is their profit margin. Usually Man U are clear favourites based on a faithful media, obliging match officials, intimidating manager, brainwashed punters, etc, etc. As the season unfolds, prices are adjusted to reflect the true winning potential of each team. After the Villa home game AFC were best priced at 18/1, today you'll do well to get 4/1, Man U are now 140/1 on the exchanges. Man City are favourites because the media brainwashes the public into believing they will win the PL. Bookmakers love a brainwashed public, manner from heaven, because they can offer odds that are shorter than reality! Man City are currently priced as though they have a 6 point lead. Punters who follow their own judgement are more likely to win money than the brainwashed sheep who believe everything they hear and read. Bookies odds largely reflect what's already happened. Logic dictates Man City shouldn't be favourites because they're not top after 22 games and visit Chelsea in two weeks time. It'll be interesting to see how the market has reformed after that game.

  130. Gus Caesars Curvaceous Bottom

    Jan 21, 2014, 12:26 #44473

    @ we are building a team - The point that is being made is that generally when a team wins a title it is with the most number of points, rarely does goal difference become the deciding factor aside from the odd occasion as you mention (although for the record in 1989 we won it on goals scored, our gd was the same as liverpools). I don't really care what the pundits say about our chances, I'm quite happy to make my own mind up, I dont think we have the squad to maintain our current momentum, and expect City to take over and win the league, but I'd be delighted to be proved wrong. Either way, looking to FA or refereeing bias as a ready made excuse is lazy (though I will concur that the Mike Dean thing is more than a little shady, I've read elsewhere that he has a genuine grudge against Arsenal going back several years)

  131. John Gooner

    Jan 21, 2014, 12:19 #44472

    I appreciate your optimism Simon. Have you thought of delineating your blogs a bit? I'm not sure city will be too worried if one of their strikers get's injured, any of them would walk into our first team and it's not like the goals slowed up when Aguero was out. So how is our challenge more sustainable than City's when we rely so heavily on 1 very average striker being fit. The media don't think we can do it because STUPIDLY they believe in an evidence based system of proof and reason. Arsenal of the last 8 years (and possibly longer) have been bottlers, so perhaps their caution is well advised. We bottled it in 07-08 apparently because Eduardo got injured - When we had the league's top scorer in Adebayor still fit and well? Hmmmm! The biggest obstacle in our way is Wenger and his inability to beat any of the top managers tactically - Generally we will always lose or draw against the top 6 and that is why we will come up short once again.

  132. Westlower

    Jan 21, 2014, 12:13 #44471

    @Bard, If decisions even themselves out why don't refs award decisions against Man U at OT? AFC had two penalty decisions awarded against us in the first home game of the season. That's about 200 times more than Man U over the past 10 years. I'm still waiting for decisions to even themselves out in our favour. I suspect it'll be a long wait....When all else fails get Mike Dean back, he'll stop our title charge! If not Mike, then Antony Taylor, Howard Webb, Martin Atkinson, Chris Foy, what a sorry little lot!

  133. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jan 21, 2014, 11:47 #44470

    "goal difference is over rated...." er, Arsenal 1989 and Manchester City themselves in 2011 both won the title with it. Go back even further and look up how we won the title in 1953

  134. Highbury Boy

    Jan 21, 2014, 11:18 #44469

    Sorry to spoil a good conspiracy story but if you check the bookmakers' odds (and I think you will agree that they have no interest in favouring anyone) they have City at evens,Chelsea at 7-2 and Arsenal at 4-1. Those 3 are way ahead of the other teams with 100-1 for Spurs or United. The bookies haven't based their odds on Shearer's views.

  135. Bard

    Jan 21, 2014, 10:59 #44468

    TOL sorry mate. The best team wins then league. Decisions even out. You're analysis is yet more of the old Kenneth Williams classic , infamy infamy they 've all got it in for me. There is no conspiracy, we are not being done by bent referees or dodgey decisions. Sounds suspiciously like getting the excuses in early - "we woz robbed". If Wenger had put in a proper bid for Suarez we might really be looking at a title tilt

  136. Ron

    Jan 21, 2014, 10:57 #44467

    Westie and Tai Obasi - What youre both alluding too is corruption. Bent refs! Just say it guys. Ive believed it for 30 years at least and i also think whole match fixing and spot betting at least is rife in football. My own observations over many years have given me many strong indications often supported by others from whom ive heard similar comments without raising the point in conversation. The body language of the culpable and player/ref reactions etc that accompany the actual decisions when watching games 'live' tell many a story that only those who want to remain 'blind' will miss. Westie - On your SKY views. Sorry mate - no sympathy there. You clearly still pay Murdoch for his garbage. Switch it off. Unsubscribe as many, many of us have done. You ll only miss it for a day or two. Its truly a poor product.

  137. Tai Obasi, Lagos

    Jan 21, 2014, 10:24 #44466

    I keep coming back for comments because Simon has done an excellent piece. Disheartening to observe even Gunners do not believe. The only thing that will stop this set of Gunners is dubious officiating, not just in matches involving us but also in matches involving our rivals and other teams. It happens all the time in EPL and already happened this season to a very large degree! Talk of our February and March fixtures...Arsenal will play Liverpool on 8th February...with Carzola and Wilshere back to form, Podolski coming gradually into things and Ramsey fit then ... Arsenal will come out of Anfield with three points! In the last eight seasons, we haven't lost at Anfield! We'll play Liverpool before Champions League resumes. Whichever team that will visit Anfield in the mix of Champions League will most certainly drop points! Our matches with Tottenham(who have a Thursday date to keep), Chelsea will be within Champions League mixes. Better to play these sides sandwiched between our matches with Bayern than to play Newcastle, Everton...sides that will hurt you well-rested! Besides, teams at the other end are far more dangerous to play at that time, especially at their homes. Arsenal have visited all lower six teams! If our February/March are tough, it means an easier run-in in April/May...it's neither here nor there. Arsenal may have lost to Man City and Man U but it's far more prestigious than losing to Cardiff, Sunderland, Stoke, Newcastle,Everton...as two of our closest rivals have contrived this season...each match fetches three points!

  138. Roy

    Jan 21, 2014, 10:23 #44465

    So, when have we ever fitted in to the " media narrative " ? This really is nothing new. Yes, City and Chelsea probably are better than us man for man in terms of squad depth required for the final straight. However, there's not a lot in it, certainly not as much as our pundit friends would have us believe. They have conveniently forgotten that the " crisis " that they described us to be in at the start of the season after we lost to Villa and the Champs Lge draw before we signed Ozil, has failed to materialise. Of course, it's now Manure in " crisis " and their attention has largely switched to that. As has already been mentioned by others here, there is no doubt that the others have benefitted from more generous decisions than we have, but we cannot blame the media for remaining sceptical until we beat one of our direct rivals, though if we do it will probably be a case of its only one game and they'll slip up elsewhere ! That's the way it works I'm afraid, it's just annoying that so many people are taken in by it. As we all know, there will be a few twists and turns to come, but that's hardly difficult to predict, is it ? My own honest opinion ? I think we will finish 2nd or 3rd, but we are in there fighting, are solid at the back, and the soft underbelly that has blighted us has disappeared. Yes, we may run out of steam, but from what I've seen so far, I am certainly not without hope as some others seem to be - new signings or not.

  139. Unchives

    Jan 21, 2014, 10:20 #44464

    I couldn't resist and went onto the Premiership Predictor. I tried to be as impartial as possible. The outcome.......Chelsea champions on 90 points, Arsenal second on 90 points. Man City on 84, Man Utd on 74, Spurs on 74 in fifth. However I did go for a 2-1 win to Chelsea @ Stamford Bridge......So we know what we have to do!

  140. Michael O'Brien

    Jan 21, 2014, 10:20 #44463

    Arsenal win da title? I can see it - all the way from 'down under!' How refreshing it would be to see a pure football team push all the title-buyers aside for a change.

  141. Westlower

    Jan 21, 2014, 10:19 #44462

    @Tai Obasi, I entirely agree with your observations re the match officials. We're constantly told these gentlemen give their judgement's honestly but the underlying feeling is they are performing to an agenda. I wish Mike Riley would explain how AFC have only won two out of something like 25 games when Mike Dean is ref. Our overall win percentage under AW drops from 57% to 7%. Where's the honesty in Dean's officiating? We also read there are no refs from the London area, the majority from the North West, some with Salford addresses. Graham Poll from Tring, Herts must have been the last prominent southern based ref. How can this ordinary Man U team win the PL by 11 points without getting the lion's share of ref's decisions. Fergies bullying/intimidation of officials, reputation, media hype, all are factors. A penalty awarded against Man U at OT is a collectors item. If the likes of Bale & Suarez can't 'win' penalties at OT, I conclude it's unlikely to ever happen for anyone. To understand the media bias in favour of Man U, I strongly recommend that you count the number of times Man U are mentioned on TV when they are not a participant in the televised game. Martin Tyler is the worst culprit. The Sky bias towards Man U is cringe worthy. They've even found a way to exaggerate the pronunciation on MANNN-CHESTERR UUUNITTEDD, stand up Ed Chamberlin. Please pass me a bucket as Sky gush out their wonk eyed PR to their biggest group of customers, who in turn support the biggest club in the world! Sky provide the butter for the pundits bread. Am I bitter and twisted, maybe, or a well adjusted experienced observer who doesn't necessarily buy into the general consensus of opinion. Professionally I was trained to challenge the status quo when faced with unsatisfactory situations. Now, which way is the tide flowing today?

  142. Vin

    Jan 21, 2014, 9:57 #44461

    Good piece. In my heart of hearts I don't really believe we'll win the title. Had we not had that hellish run of fixtures in March, I may have felt a little more optimistic. The key thing for us right now is to just win the next two games away to Southampton and home to Palace before we face Liverpool away and United at home. In that time hopefully City and Chelsea would have dropped enough points to give us some kind of cushion going into that period. I have a feeling that despite what he says, he is looking for a signing at this critical juncture to give us a boost that could take us over the line. I would definitely go out and do it. I'd say we need two signings: Draxler or speed king to replace Walcott; and a forward on loan. It'd be worth the gamble.

  143. Bard

    Jan 21, 2014, 9:45 #44460

    That sounds like a conspiracy theory Simon ! Its rather similar to the rubbish Wenger spouts when we lose. Media or no media we won't win for the following reasons. We haven't looked like beating Chelsea, Citeh or Man u so far in the games we've played against them. As Ron has pointed out we have bottled it for the best part of a decade. Citeh have the best strikers , Chelsea have the best manager. Wenger messed up in the summer window and didn't buy a top striker. Forget the rubbish in the media Simon the reasons I have outlined are, to my mind , why we won't win it. I hope I'm wrong but even Westie won't be putting money on it.

  144. BADARSE

    Jan 21, 2014, 9:27 #44459

    Tai Obasi, Lagos. There is much in what you say. People follow common patterns, and often react in a usual fashion. Given an intimidating situation they can revert to subconscious levels of survival. Whether that means playing extra time, allowing this and perhaps the next attack to take place so a match can be saved or won, overruling an offside flag, giving a soft penalty or missing a clear one, it influences the outcome over a season. A complaint sounds like sour grapes, and that we are not 'manning up'. It will certainly play it's part in the sixteen remaining games, let's hope we can do enough to neutralise any 'weak' refereeing decisions.

  145. Unchives

    Jan 21, 2014, 8:53 #44458

    At some point we will have to beat the challengers or Arsenal WILL NOT WIN the league. I can see us beating Citeh at home, but Liverpool, Chelsea & Spurs away could cost us. Even Man Utd home will not be easy as Rooney & RVP will be back for them. I fear we will draw the home games & loose the away games, particularly against Chelsea as we need another striker, or some sort of Ozil type boost.

  146. Ashu H. Tabi

    Jan 21, 2014, 8:52 #44457

    The fact remains that Arsenal will still have to rewrite the script.If Arsenal will successfully beat Chelsea and Man City, then Arsenal might top the league but there's no guarantee for that. I still hold to my prediction that the race to the league title is between Chelsea and Man City NOT even Arsenal. Arsenal will have to redefine their position when the moment surfaces. If you ask my opinion,I would say that Arsenal's position will probably be third. That's if Liverpool's performance in the last few matches persist.

  147. Mike

    Jan 21, 2014, 8:51 #44456

    We are still top despite our so called lack of depth. Man City for all their attacking prowess still ship a lot of soft goals. Chelsea are starting to play with consistent efficiency and their strikers are beginning to score. But with over half the games played we are still top and nobody can argue that stat. We have also accumulated more points than any other team during the last calender year, so why not continue that run - draws with the top teams will suffice

  148. Tai Obasi, Lagos

    Jan 21, 2014, 8:50 #44455

    With what I've seen of Arsenalthis season, we'll be there till May...if, and only if, the match officials don't drown dear Gunners. Two matches against the so-called sure winners, they already made sure we didn't triumph. Against City, multiple offside calls and a soft penalty gifted City that heavy score line, not to mention excessive rough plays from City that went unpunished! Against Chelsea, Mikel Obi should have seen red, while Walcott deserved a penalty from Willian's tackle. But no action from the ref, allowing defensive Chelsea go home with a point. If both games were handled appropriately, we would be talking of at least five points gap. But if we add that the ref gifted Mourinho with a penalty against WBA to keep his so-called unbeaten home record intact and Suarez denied a penalty against Eto'O to avoid a draw against Liverpool, Chelsea could be well nine points behind Arsenal.... If the referee hadn't made the worst offside call I've seen against Sterling or awarded the penalty for Suarez at the Etihad, as well as not cancelling Tiote's goal at St James' Park....by now Arsenal would have been nine points ahead. But tell me one match where Arsenal has benefitted from officiating this season! This is my only worry. I know, of Ferguson's 13 League wins, he didn't merit 10...English refs and FA have a way of having chosen the Champion before League is kicked off. The media only echo what they know. And on that, I'm afraid Arsenal may finish 3rd!

  149. BADARSE

    Jan 21, 2014, 8:44 #44454

    Thanks Simon, I enjoyed the narrative, and your observations are very clear-sighted. The punditry is a clique. With all cliques, they proclaim then follow a herd mentality approach. To shift your position and change your mind moves you to the edge of the crew, as if you are cutting and running, and is also seen as a weakness amongst insecure men. That is punditry. I have seen on occasions Lee Dixon and Alan Smith tugged along into a group-think 'bash Arsenal' policy. They want to remain within the framework and to keep drawing their wages after all, so why be independent, when maintaining the status quo is the order of the day? That article recently '20 Game Assessment', spoke of the patterns emerging, and the lines in two matches since have just etched them a little more deeply. It will be one of three. The other two have stronger squads, depth wise; we were their match over 20 games, are still after 22. Obvious conclusion is we could be after 38, that is a given. Will we though? Intriguing!

  150. Westlower

    Jan 21, 2014, 8:35 #44453

    The punditry community are handsomely paid for their opinions and the overwhelming consensus preseason was that AFC weren't contenders for the top 4 by some, top 6 by others. It's hard for a human being, especially a well paid professional expert, to admit their judgement is flawed. Luckily for them they get to keep their wages even if their predictions are hopelessly wrong. There are signs of some humble pie being eaten but generally they hope AFC fall away to get them off the hook. As Man City play Chelsea on Feb 1st, there is an opportunity for AFC to open the gap at the top still further. I fear Chelsea more than Man City as City's defence remains vulnerable to leaking goals. Also City's fixture congestion will cause them problems come April/May.

  151. Ron

    Jan 21, 2014, 8:34 #44452

    We've been flakey, underprepared and undercooked for so long, the view that we can really win the title takes some getting used to for the fans, never mind the media.2008 (our only genuine title tilt since 04) isn't so far back and those of us who were regular match goers back then recall it well. Like or hate the sports media here, you cant blame them for their scepticism. Anyway, look to your history. Those of us there every step of the way back in 1971 well recall the media s oft repeated views all season that Leeds were unbeatable and that there was an inevitability they would claim the title. Look what happened then!. The top spot will change hands a few times this season yet, i'm pretty sure of that. Keep it up Gunners!

  152. lance

    Jan 21, 2014, 8:32 #44451

    the reason the press are doing this to arsenal is beacuse we fail to beat the top teams and you cant blame them. we have to still play city , chelsea and united (no matter how bad they are we never beat them in a while). we need at least 6 out of these 9 to be taken seriously. then only will i even start to believe.

  153. Somebody

    Jan 21, 2014, 7:59 #44450

    City have so many top strikers that it's very hard to see enough of them getting injured/suspended to dry up the flow of goals. If they slip up it will be the absence of Toure & Kompany that will be their undoing. Difficult to see what Chelsea's bete noir might be. Their strikers can't get much worse & they are already up there The rest of the squad seems well covered.

  154. Savage

    Jan 21, 2014, 7:57 #44449

    An absolute fabulous season in the grand view. So delicately poised right now - the title leadership could change from week to week going into the final stretch. One thing must be said - Arsenal's position at number one is not a fluke. We have been winning our games for a long time now. There is nothing to suggest this will change. If the status quo continues, our games against City and Chelsea will be showcases. You can wet your pants and scream like a girl, or you can enjoy the rollercoaster like a man.

  155. Andy M

    Jan 21, 2014, 7:53 #44448

    Good post. I have long felt that we are viewed as the poor relation in some media circles - ITV's Champions League coverage being a particular example. Perhaps this season will change a few stances, but this bias to ABA (Anyone But Arsenal) seems deeply ingrained at the moment. The odious Glenn Hoddle, on the occasions he is employed as a pundit for our games on Sky, is predictably anti - fortunately he is so dull I would think most people tune his monotone out.

  156. jim

    Jan 21, 2014, 7:52 #44447

    well argued,we keep the belief

  157. Anthony

    Jan 21, 2014, 7:49 #44446

    Well written. For once there is a refreshing perspective of the league. Remember how the pundits were saying that post November AFC will fall away, then it became Post the December period, then end of January. Now they are saying February and some, because they are afraid that we will still be top come end Febr, are saying March. 'm sure even when we have cleared this hurdle they will still be doubting even after AFC lifts teh trophy. COYG

  158. Eddie

    Jan 21, 2014, 7:43 #44445

    Total rubbish by blinkered Mr Rose.Arsenal will finish 3rd.This is a repeat of 2008 when Wenger failed to strengthen when we were top and we collapsed.Its the kings new clothes.And City will not win the title Chelsea will.Why?Mourinho thats why

  159. MagherclooneGooner

    Nov 03, 2012, 13:54 #27484

    A very sensible review of the game Kevr.It was a pleasure to have been present at a game where we filled a whole end like that great night in 87 when we came back and won at WHL with Rocky's great winning goal into our end at the Park Lane.We clinched the game at Reading with two goals into our end.Well done to the Gooners who sang throughout to encourage the team.Allez Arsenal

  160. Angry & Frustrated

    Nov 03, 2012, 6:33 #27481

    @goonercolesyboy If you mean that I don't have my head in the sand like you, and am not willing to accept groundhog season after groundhog season without speaking up then as you say I am a moaner. When if ever will you and people like you realize that the board & Wenger are only interested in your money and once they have it their attitude towards you is akin to you being a pleb? So no I am not like you, who somehow can forget the reality of our situation, simply because we came back from 4-0 down to win at the mighty Reading. One off results are always going to come about, and who knows they may even win this competition this year, but the bigger picture still remains that from the invincible era to this current squad we have fallen away drastically, and in my view that's down to penny pinching from above coupled with the redefining/brainwashing that 4th place is somehow a trophy. It's NOT but people like you obviously fall for this hook line and sinker and simply live from result to result, whereas I and many others are looking at the overall bigger picture, which currently for a club of our size, stature and resources is going backwards year after year. You are obviously content with your lot, and good luck to you, and in some ways I envy you, it's just that I want to see my club move heaven and earth to compete at the very top, which even you would have to agree we are clearly not doing, regardless of winning 7-5 at Reading.

  161. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 02, 2012, 22:19 #27478

    Angry and Frustrated.....nothing to skip as I was correct about telling moaners where to go and as you are one of them then please join the group. And your comment on this article about the game tried so hard to praise the team but you just couldn't contain your negative thought process could you?

  162. Angry & Frustrated

    Nov 02, 2012, 20:24 #27476

    @Goonercolesyboy In answer to your latest question, go to the archive section, and search out an article titled "Arsenal used to be something to look forward to..Well,mostly" dated 17 July 2012. From that you will learn all you need to learn about my history with the club, and how my current "Angry & Frustrated" status came to be. Not sure what difference this will make, as I don't personally wish to see myself as superior to anybody who happens to be younger than me, and hence naturally has not been as long as a supporter as I have, simply by virtue of birth date as your tone seems to imply! Lastly I didn't reply to the word moaner as I keep saying, it was your childish F off comment which I thought was out of order, but I see once again you conveniently skip that part in your reply yet again!

  163. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 02, 2012, 16:24 #27468

    Angry and Frustrated...my original comment was directed to all the moaners, so you replied...I await your response to how long you have supported andhow often do you go to matches either home or away? To Tony Evans, I appreciate that we because of our age have been through all sorts of emotions but isn't that what we sign up for as a supporter? The highs and the lows are part and parcel of following any sport especially football. But repetitive moaning is what I can't stand.

  164. Passcloud

    Nov 02, 2012, 16:05 #27467

    The unnamed uninformed players: OX and Giroud. chamakh would score more often if given more playing time. Simple as that; not rocket science my Friend. Leave Haley's comment to those with a legitimate background on the subject.

  165. Angry & Frustrated

    Nov 02, 2012, 12:32 #27463

    @Goonercolesyboy I fail to see your logic (that is if any exists) that by me merely asking you not to tell people to F off for expressing their opinion, that now suddenly confirms in your warped mind that I am a moaner!?! If by simply asking people not to swear and keep debates civil by your definition makes me a moaner, then yes I am a moaner! Another thing, again by your definition the fact that you have also commented again, automatically also makes you a moaner! You haven't thought this response through have you?

  166. Tony Evans

    Nov 02, 2012, 12:15 #27462

    Goonercolesyboy - I am of the same vintage as you and likewise go back with Arsenal more years than I care to remember. I am surprised that you are still behind Wenger as I thought older supporters like you and me were the main ones wanting him out.

  167. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 02, 2012, 11:50 #27461

    to Tony Evans and Angry and Frustrated....thanks for admitting that you are both moaners, otherwise you would have kept your comments to yourselves. As for a supporter, I was born in 1958 and supported the team for as long as I can remember and have a good idea of what it takes to support the team by travelling all over the country and to far flung parts of the world too so I do understand the term "supporter", using my hard earned money is somewhat proof of that. Opinions are of course different in what we see at the Arsenal nowadays but to keep on moaning is not going to do anything to change as you know the club doesn't read thses comments or in fact care too much either. That being said, today's society is so different to the old days but time to get into the present my friends....over to the two of you...

  168. Angry & Frustrated

    Nov 02, 2012, 10:04 #27460

    @goonercolesyboy I wasn't trying to be clever merely highlighting that you don't need to tell people to F off just because they have a different opinion to yours. We are all entitled to our own views about Arsenal and should be free to view them on this forum without being abused. As for me proving you wrong about my support for Arsenal, ask yourself the question why would someone like me be visiting this website and make contributions unless they supported Arsenal deeply?

  169. HowardL

    Nov 02, 2012, 9:06 #27459

    Bring on Bradford! Is it Park Avenue or City?

  170. Tony Evans

    Nov 02, 2012, 8:42 #27458

    Goonercolesyboy - Judging from A & Fs comments I would suggest that far from not knowing what it means to support the club A & F cares and knows a damn sight more than you do about Arsenal. If you are happy with Wenger and the way he is managing the club than good for you but what that says about how you feel about Arsenal and where you want to see the club is anyone's guess.

  171. Tony Evans

    Nov 02, 2012, 8:21 #27457

    JJB - I don't need to justify myself to you but for your information I have supported Arsenal for well over 40 years now, probably before you were even born. My love for football has died in the Sky Sports era you refer to rather than started. It is only my deep affection for Arsenal that has kept my interest going. I am in no way back-tracking on my stance about the Reading game. If I had been there of course I would have enjoyed it but in the cold light of day it is a meaningless result and will do nothing to rid the club of Wenger which is what I want more than anything. I think you are more a football fan than an Arsenal fan which is fair enough, as we are all different, and I am glad that you were able to witness such an amazing match.

  172. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 01, 2012, 21:23 #27454

    @Angry and Frusrated...you sir are perhaps one of the mindless people on this site who think they support the Arsenal but really have no idea what that means...please prove me wrong....and by the way this is football not a war we are discussing, so don't try and be clever with your analogies please.

  173. JJB

    Nov 01, 2012, 16:39 #27452

    @Tony Evans - Why back track now Tony? No one was talking about being in raptures? Drop the hyperbole mate, you claim you cannot take enjoyment and that makes yo a bafoon! I am a sports fan, and I love football, any professional game where the score is 7-5 is going to be worth watching. Sadly you are typical of the negative boring, tribal fan that has been prodcued in the Skysports age! You guys love to hammer away on your keyboard, sitting from the comfort of your sofa, have you done anything affirmative to backup your endless repeative rehetoric? NO! Like most fans I am angry and disapointed by where we are, but I dont feel the need to be a keyboard warrior.I still love football and I love Arsenal, and Im going to enjoy chucklign about you with the real fans at OT on sat.

  174. marwoodonthewing

    Nov 01, 2012, 15:02 #27449

    I think we showed unbelievable belief (copyright The Merse) to come back so well into this game and I ENJOYED it, what a shame other people can't. GoonerRon I like your style sir! Up the Arsenal.

  175. Daniel

    Nov 01, 2012, 14:11 #27448

    How can someone who says they are a true Arsenal fan say they took no enjoyment out of watching us smash 7 goals after being 4-0 down? I don't know about you but i was going absolutely mental when Theo smashed in the 6th. If you can't enjoy a comeback like that then go to ****e Hart Lane and support 5pur2

  176. John Abrehart

    Nov 01, 2012, 13:17 #27447

    Apart from the errors which gave Reading two goals in the first half, the Arsenal team on the night looked what it was: a mix of youth and non too regular first team players who have never played together faced by a physical Premiership side that included some useful footballers. The second half revival is a credit to the playes and the substitutions for a change were spot on. Meade looks a useful find in the troubled left back position and Eisfield is extremely promising. On the subject of Theo Walcott, he is one of a few players that can change the game and his pace frightens the opposition, often meaning that tactical changes are made to deal with him thus taking the pressure off us. Settle with him I say, his 40 plus goals for the club must count for someghing.

  177. Joe Broadfoot

    Nov 01, 2012, 12:39 #27445

    It wasn't the best match I've ever seen, but that's the best match report I've ever read. Great metaphors and realism combined! Only thing I disagree with is the comment about commitment. I thought our team were inept and, possibly, ill-prepared. As you pointed out, how could Coq & Olly not know it was extra time? It makes you wonder what the hell is going on behind the scenes. Nevertheless, we're not significantly worse than Man U and Chelsea, judging by their recent game in the same competition, so we should have a chance of bringing back something from Old Trafford.

  178. Chris

    Nov 01, 2012, 11:28 #27443

    @tpm & 'AuRevoir Wnger' - actually it was defeats against Norwich and Schalke that brought 'AKBs' (if you insist on using that daft tern) like me back, to see how quickly the negativity returns for the fickle masses and to enjoy the banter.... Doesn't exactly require bravery to tap away on a keyboard and post a few messages, does it?

  179. Chris

    Nov 01, 2012, 10:24 #27440

    tpm - we DON'T have the fourth highest spend in the League - that is a MYTH perpetuated by Kevin who adds 'I believe' when he means 'I like to believe'. Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool have higher spends on wages + transfers in recent years. The facts are easily available if you look around a bit. When did Arsenal last finish FIFTH? And in any case, we were THIRD last season and two seasons before that - one place higher than fourth and two higher than fifth.....

  180. Angry & Frustrated

    Nov 01, 2012, 9:43 #27439

    @goonercolesyboy You clearly are just an immature little boy telling people to F off, just because they happen to express a different opinion to yours. Do you know we live in a democracy, and that people fought and died to enable people like you and me to express our own individual opinions without fear of persecution?

  181. GoonerRon

    Nov 01, 2012, 8:05 #27436

    @ Franko - I think you may have missed the sarcasm in my latest comment.

  182. Franko

    Nov 01, 2012, 7:24 #27434

    @Gooner Ron just tell me how many trophies Chelsea and Utd have won since 2005? It must be nearly 20.If only our club was so poor.Its fans like you except one off wins and dont look at the big picture.Clubs are judged on trophies won

  183. AuReviour Wenger

    Nov 01, 2012, 6:50 #27433

    Will Walnutt Arshavin and Chamakh start in the big game on saturday?Of course not.The Mickey Mouse cup was their level.To think that idiot Jamie Redknapp and even some deluded Gooners are saying give Walcott what he wants to keep him.And also welcome back the AKB's who disappeared for two weeks now a Mickey Mouse cup win brings them back

  184. goonercolesyboy

    Oct 31, 2012, 23:18 #27432

    To all the moaners on here why don't you all f*ck off and get a life...how many of you idiots actually go to the away matches and support the team...bet this isn't printed...

  185. Joe S.

    Oct 31, 2012, 22:39 #27431

    Good, fun second division stuff that you'd enjoy watching on a cold blustery day with no prior expectations as you'd have with two teams going nowhere. These are the ganes one enjoys watching with a group of wags , poking fun at both sets of players and just getting excited about the moment. In one sense it defines the purity of football where every game has possibilities regardless of the quality of the players on the field.

  186. Mystic Mendez - Rodriguez

    Oct 31, 2012, 22:25 #27430

    Next season, I predict The Arsenal will be the first club in Europe to concede 100 goals or more in their domestic competition and still qualify for the Champion's League. Chamakh will score in every round of both domestic cups, but alas The Arsenal will fall at the final hurdle in both competitions - narrowly losing an amazing F.A. Cup Final 6-7 to Swansea, but shamefully the League Cup Final 10-11 to Norwich. They're record breakers in the making, these boys.

  187. GoonerRon

    Oct 31, 2012, 22:16 #27429

    Just watching the final seconds of Chelsea v Man U's 9 goal thriller. Me, I am just seeing incompetence and two poor teams.

  188. tpm

    Oct 31, 2012, 22:00 #27428

    where were all u cowardly akb's before a meaningless result in the most pointless competition???!!! nice to see you crawl out from under your stones. expect you will have disappeared again come saturday afternoon. a nice enjoyable result in isolation, but in the grand scheme of things is meaningless (and would have been had we lost too), however let the 'all is well brigade' clutch at straws until normal service resumes. couple of things, all we did was do what we should have done, beaten a very poor much smaller side. CHRIS, how is AW overacheiving? we have 4th highest spend in the league, thus id say AW is acheiving the bare minimum by getting the 4th place trophy and nothing else, likewise as 4th biggest spend should we not always be in cup semi finals? hardly overacheiving is he???

  189. It was a win, but not how you would want it.

    Oct 31, 2012, 21:34 #27427

    Qoute:Imagine if the whole end was made up of Tony Evans replicas. No chance we'd have been roared to victory. So you think everyone there thinks the same as you! I was there right to the end, enjoyed the match immensely, cheered myself hoarse, was pleased with the result. But there was very little good about it as far as the season is concerned, it has yet again shown us up to be poor in more areas than we are good in. Overall very worrying still. Dont doubt the ability of fans to cheer there teams on but not be blinded by the inadeqaucies of this team and manager. The two things are not related. The editorial makes good points and the balance given by other posters is scraping the bottom of the barrel as i find myself trying to do more and more frequently over recent years.

  190. gary

    Oct 31, 2012, 21:13 #27426

    @Wombledin Why dont FIFA ban defending so other teams can catch up with Arsenal.Its not fair we are the only team who doesnt play with a keeper or a back four.4-4 v Spuds Liverpool Newcastle,4-3 v Blackburn,4-0 v Milan 8-2 v Manchester United now 5-7.Defence doesnt existed in Wengerworld. The coach of the decade yeah right

  191. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 31, 2012, 21:01 #27425

    Seven goal fight back. Your right nobody is doing cartwheels because Tony Evans is right this scoreline/result will get us nowhere apart from the next round and if he plays the same team lets hope we don't meet a better team than reading (no disrespect reading)those proper supporters you mention the ones that have been supporting and following arsenal for forty, fifty, years plus and the fantastic support last night were the ones singing we want our arsenal back (the arsenal that used to have great players play great football and win cups)not the one we have now was aimed at wenger and the board imagine what they'd have been singing if there had been no come back.

  192. Wombledin

    Oct 31, 2012, 19:55 #27424

    From a totally neutral perspective, that was awesome and the way football is meant to be! So sick of football being dominated by defenders and spoiling tactics. FIFA should tweak the rules to encourage more games like this and get rid of boring 0-0, 1-0 results pervading the game. From a gooner perspective, some positive things offensively but lots of negative things defensively, but that's mostly the Wenger way.

  193. Martin wengrow

    Oct 31, 2012, 19:16 #27423

    Spot on with this blog, Kevin. It also reminded me of the 5-4 game at White Hart Lane in 2004/5. At the end of that game I knew that we wouldn't retain the title that season.

  194. HowardL

    Oct 31, 2012, 19:04 #27422

    A fantastically enjoyable evening - couldn't really believe the comeback happened: in fact, I thought our recovery and spirit were so great that I watched the 90 mins again when I got home (so didn't get to bed until 2) and will enjoy extra time this evening. At 4-0 for the first time ever I felt like leaving early and going home to avoid further humiliation, but how glad am I that I stayed! Kev, I think you make too much of the added time; in any case, taking the ball to the corner flag is anti-football, so maybe some refs add on time on moral grounds? Whatever, this was a memorable fantastic comeback and Theo was brilliant. The only thing I can agree with is why the players threw their shirts to the crowd at 90 minutes. One of the most entertaining games I've ever seen and the "banter" between the Reading fans and the superb Arsenal support was amazing to be part of. I am no longer pro-Wenger but I think we need to judge him fairly and above all have great sympathy with those who are suggesting that our Editor should "get a life".

  195. Colin

    Oct 31, 2012, 18:51 #27421

    You're right Kev, Koscielny's performance was the stuff of Ceasar and Stephanovs.He made Jason Roberts look like Messi.How he wasnt sent off is a mystery.I never got the Koscielny love-in last season.He played in a back 4 that conceded FORTY NINE goals.How many own goals has he scored?.So Wenger knows nothing about keepers check nothing about CB's check and a DM check.All for £7m of your money.7 goals mean nothing 7 trophyless seasons do(make that eight) stick your 4th place trophy

  196. Graham

    Oct 31, 2012, 18:39 #27420

    This is what Wenger has turned us into a musical act.Loads of 4-4's in recent years, an 8-2.Forget defence that doesnt matter,treat the goalkeeping position as a joke.While the trophy cabinet remains bare.Score 7 goals in a game yet couldnt muster a shot on target v Norwich and Schalke.Wenger thinks we can play without a keeper and defenders like Barca but Barca have Messi Cesc Xavi and Iniesta we have no one.Its damage limitation on saturday with Wenger claiming a moral victory if we dont concede 8.The only thing worse for Tony Adams watching that shower at the back last night was sitting next to Tom Watt

  197. mark from aylesbury

    Oct 31, 2012, 18:29 #27419

    Yes hugely enjoyable but 4-1 down turned into 8-2 last season and would we recover this season if playing man u and we are in the same position? Something is seriously going wrong with the preparation / planning and tactics. I remain concerned. Professional teams should not get themselves into these situations.

  198. Mike

    Oct 31, 2012, 17:34 #27418

    It does not matter who you play against - to come back from 4-0 down takes something special - I hope to see more of the little German midfielder Eisfeld. looks like another gem - in place of Ramsey perhaps - three Germans in the team - just don't mention the war -Arsenal improved when Arshavin decided he might get involved for once

  199. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Oct 31, 2012, 17:18 #27417

    In amongst the maelstrom that saw Walsall '84 turn into Leeds '93, the most significant change was Frimpong off - Eisfeld on.

  200. Moscow Gooner

    Oct 31, 2012, 17:11 #27416

    This is a blip in a long term decline - but a hugely enjoyable blip nonetheless. Like the 3-0 versus Milan last year: a great night s football and time to put aside (just for a day or two) the legitimate concerns over AW, Stan etc. Arshavin proved again that he s a world class player; the parallel is with Alan Hudson: superb player who could just not deliver consistently in Arsenal colours. Theo underlined his claim to the central striker s role: why not give him 6 or 7 games there to prove himself? Surely that s what TH14 got? Strange about the players throwing shirts into the crowd though: wasn't extra time mentioned at any point?! How were they pacing themselves? One helluva shock if you think you re on for 90 and then have to play another 30...

  201. Seven goal fightback. No spirit. Not good enough.

    Oct 31, 2012, 16:25 #27415

    Tony Evans asked 'What is the point of being excited about last night's scoreline when you know it will lead absolutely nowhere.'..other than the last 8 of a competition we can very feasibly win? Nobody is doing cartwheels claiming we are now suddenly world beaters and our defensive woes are over. Far from it. Judging by your negativity, if you refuse to go while AW remains, then it's probably a good case for Arsene staying. Persistent moaners and miserabilists stay away please and leave it to proper 'supporters'. Our support last night was fantastic. Imagine if the whole end was made up of Tony Evans replicas. No chance we'd have been roared to victory.

  202. CanadaGooner

    Oct 31, 2012, 16:21 #27414

    Kev, that's exactly what telly has done to football! ofcourse SkySports would like to see these 5-a-side, park footie type results more often so they can sell more sports packages. I am flying home from Canada to watch the Arsenal - Fulham game and 2 more games and I am already dreading it in advance! The noise being made earlier this season about our new-look mean defense needs to be toned down; we're far, far away from having a defense! Conceding so many goals at Reading can only be the hallmark of a crappy team. I dont think Kos has gone from being a good defender last season to what he was yesterday, but the reality is that there is something seriously missing in how Arsenal mentally prepare our players, and that is also due to the 7-year trophy drought. None of our current players truly believe they are going to end that drought this year. They have all become so comfortable (and so has Wenger too), 7 years turning to 8 years means nothing to them (perharps they're aiming for a 10-year mark?). Not sure what we have to celebrate? Yesterday's result will only be significant if we endup winning this trophy. I hope Arsenal can bring in someone to prepare the team mentally so they can be more focused, or we will be mullered at OT this weekend and the 8th trophyless yeat will be confirmed even before xmas!

  203. Harold

    Oct 31, 2012, 16:09 #27412

    Chris- I wouldn't say that £140m a year to spend on player wages is being 'constrained by a lack of funds'. Especially when the evil Gazidis constantly emphasises (again at the AGM last week) that there is always money available to spend, something that Wenger never disputes. Yet some fans still feel sorry for poor, put upon £7m a year Arsene. I enjoyed last night for what it was, but can totally understand where Tony Evans is coming from as the result will do nothing to halt our continued slide into mediocrity, it will just delay the day when Wenger leaves and meaningful positive change will at last come to our club.

  204. Harry

    Oct 31, 2012, 16:09 #27413

    Its not about enjoying the win.Its about going 4-0 down.I presume Bould coaches the fringe defenders as well.As for the keepers is this the worst bunch of keepers ever at one club??? Wenger has a habit of collecting them

  205. Gary Gooner

    Oct 31, 2012, 16:03 #27411

    Crikey stop this bloody obsession with Wenger and look at what we should be doing as supporters and that is support our team. The boys on that pitch last night were in the famous Red & White and they were The Arsenal the team and club we love. We have had many managers, board members who we do not like but when did that stop us from wanting the team to win and do well. Believe me we have had worse teams and players out on the pitch than there were last night but we never stopped backing them so get a grip. A massive shout out to all of the away fans last night they were awesome wish i could have been there with you but i promise you i was singing every song as if i were.

  206. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 31, 2012, 15:44 #27410

    You just can not make sense out of a game like this. Now we know how newcastle felt.It was a hugely enjoyable football match alright well the second half anyway as for the first ? well what can you say no point in going into detail it was there for everybody to see as bad as ever and like you say kev it's not that we hadn't any experience with internationals on show.As for the keeper way way out of his depth surely this situation has to be addressed asap.What was said at the break was there arses kicked ? there must have been because they started making a game of it with players earning their money and playing like they should and scoring goals a pity they couldn't do it in the first half a good hat trick for walcott will give him more bargaining power and up his worth.For players not to know there was extra time and throw their shirts into the crowd was laughable did they get caught up in the moment or were they just not told i wonder how many others didn't know.An entertaining second half and well deserved victory but it doesn't take away from the first half performance even if it was a great comeback and we out scored the opposition.Lets hope we just out score the opposition on Saturday and not have to rely on a come back.

  207. Angry & Frustrated

    Oct 31, 2012, 15:18 #27409

    School boy defending by both teams last night contributed to an incredible game and scoreline, which was very reminiscent of an inter under 11 primary school football game. Enjoyable, but equally frustrating, but as a one off great fun. The sad part being I can see more school boy defending by us in the near future (OT), but not the same free scoring attack as last nights display after having gone down 4-0, as we wont be given all that space by anybody else. Walcott however has put down a marker for a central striker role, which in all probability will be completely ignored by Wenger, who no doubt will revert to type and continue to ram square pegs into round holes and vice verse as is his maddening wont! I suspect it will be a hide behind the sofa game on Saturday (with RVP showing us all why he left) and probably in Germany next week as well.

  208. Tony Evans

    Oct 31, 2012, 15:12 #27408

    JJB - It pains me that a result like last night does not have me in raptures like it would have done a while back. It doesn't because all it does is cement in place the real 'buffoon' which is Wenger. What is the point of being excited about last night's scoreline when you know it will lead absolutely nowhere.

  209. Chris

    Oct 31, 2012, 14:44 #27407

    Tony - the bigger picture is of consistent overachievement by a manager constrained by lack of funds, and who has been instrumnetal in increasing the limted amount of funds available to him. No ones getting carried way but if you can't derive entertainment from last night, what's the point of showing any interest?

  210. jamie hunter

    Oct 31, 2012, 14:39 #27406

    I for one won't be buying the 'mental strength' line that Wenger will inevitably spin out in the coming days. This win was due to a combination of desperation and a small town team that **** itself and doesn't know how to defend (I'm talking about Reading by the way). Teams with mental strength don't turn up and do what happened in the first half. It was shambolic and embarrassing, and more pointedly, a much more accurate guage of our club these days than the thrilling, desperate comeback. I'm stunned that we didn't play a stronger team anyway, this is the only chance we have of getting near a trophy, and with one of Chelsea or united going out tonight, you would expect us to at least get to the final. That is, unless we get united, Chelsea or spurs en route, in which case forget it. Walcott is playing to get away and boost his earning power, and with most of the rest of last nights starters looking so poor, all we can do is hope that the light may have flickered back on in chamakhs head and we can get some sort of use from him moving forward. Pathetic in the first hour, it was a genuine surprise to see him protest so vehemently for a penalty, it was almost like he actually gave a flying ****. One man who most certainly does is giroud, and we need more of the same for this weekend's festivities.

  211. JJB

    Oct 31, 2012, 14:36 #27405

    @tony evans - if you took NO enjoyment in that result then you need to forget about football and move onto to something like chess. You are a bafoon you really are! Take a night off from being an anti-supporter and accept the game for what it was! Pure heart in mouth entertainment! We should never ben shipping 5 goals but we scored 7 and if you cant enjoy that then you have no business watching football! I was there last night, and I stayed and the feeling amongst the real fans after 120mins was mental! hank god you were sat on your sofa!

  212. billthered

    Oct 31, 2012, 14:35 #27404

    It's also nice to know we probably are trying to amass all the worlds worst goalkeepers.Ok Arsene lets finally have a look around England or Ireland for a goalie there must be at least one about.

  213. GoonerRon

    Oct 31, 2012, 14:32 #27403

    @ Ray - why can't I just enjoy last night's result for what is was? i.e. a calamitous 40 minutes by our fringe team followed by guts, goals and our greatest ever comeback. You may have been watching a different game to me but from what I saw Coquelin was as poor as anyone in the first half but was absolutely immense in the second half and ET. Last nights defending may well have been like Newcastle, Milan and Man U in the last two seasons, the come back from 4 down, however, is unprecedented.

  214. Ray

    Oct 31, 2012, 14:16 #27402

    Gooner Ron you need to get a grip and look beyond last nights result.Those were are back up players on the pitch Martinez is number 2 while Szczesny is injured Koscienly and Djourou are our back up CB's.Koscielny was worse than Djourou last night.They all had shockers as did Frimpong and Coquelin.Good teams have back up players we dont.Last nights defending reminded me of Newcastle Milan and Man in the last two seasons.It was not a one off

  215. Tony Evans

    Oct 31, 2012, 14:04 #27401

    Chris - I don't go and will not until Wenger has gone. As a one off last night was of course an amazing scoreline but can't you see beyond that to the bigger picture? The bigger picture we have suffered for 7 years now and last night will do nothing to improve it. Kevin is absolutely correct not to get carried away about it because he knows, just like I do, that it means absolutely nothing.

  216. Andreas

    Oct 31, 2012, 14:02 #27400

    Had we managed something like this against Milan last year, it would've been incredible. The fact the 2nd string managed it says more about their determination than that of the first team, who couldn't pull a goal out against a poor norwich team, let alone a 4th against milan last season. Had the first team found themselves 4 down after 40mins, would not have pulled this result round, they might have got 3. Is this a benchmark victory? for arshavin, chamakh, walcott, giroud, koscielny, jenkinson and eisfeld absolutely.

  217. Jason

    Oct 31, 2012, 13:51 #27399

    @Gonner Ron at 89 mins on the clock it was 4-2 we scored twice after that.So for 89 mins it was crap.We were playing Reading remember.As for the keeper every ball in the air he flapped at (remind you of anyone?)As for the 3rd goal that will be on all the new football bloomers video's.And if Manonne gets injuered in training Matinez plays at OT.Happy now

  218. GaryGooner

    Oct 31, 2012, 13:50 #27398

    Look i am no AKB but i am an Arsenal Supporter and always will be so if you didnt enjoy that victory last night i am afraid i dont see how you can be one. Regardless of how bad we played in the first 35 mins, and believe me i was shouting some obscenities at the TV, you must have got a buzz from the comeback surely. By the way Eisfeld looks a real player and i dont know why he wasnt playing from the start. Role on Saturday COYG!

  219. Cameroon Lauren

    Oct 31, 2012, 13:43 #27397

    Really have the feeling there are some guys on this website that should pay a visit to a shrink (or a SM club maybe)! They would have been so happy if Arsenal had lost (and trust me they will be so glad if MU win on Saturday). I might read that website again but honestly "Good luck with your life!" Come on People!Yesterday was what football is all about!! Long life Arsenal!

  220. GoonerRon

    Oct 31, 2012, 13:30 #27396

    @ Mark - 'for 89 minutes it was a shocking performance'- here was me thinking that in the second 45 minutes we scored three goals and conceded zero. And I'm really glad you're not writing off our 20 year old GK after two first team performances. Oh wait a minute....Get a grip for crying out loud.

  221. Chris

    Oct 31, 2012, 13:27 #27395

    Nice to see the usual disaffected suspects - Fozzy, Tony Evans, Kevin Whitcher - being predictably neagtive. At the end of the day it's 'your' site so fair enough, write what you like (even if the ed sometimes doesn't like to let the facts yet in the way of making a good argument) but i do wonder why you still go to games?

  222. Gooner SA

    Oct 31, 2012, 13:20 #27394

    Through to the Quarter Final! I hope and pray that none of Mertesaker, Vermaelen, Arteta get injured again and Gervinho recovers soon because on the basis of last night the replacements do not bear thinking about.

  223. chris dee

    Oct 31, 2012, 13:19 #27393

    Didn't know whether to laugh or cry last night,but ended up on a high. But the result will mean Jack S**t if the competition is not won. These games,no matter how 'entertaining' for the neutrals and TV Companies,are only another step towards the final. Let's see what happens from here.

  224. JER

    Oct 31, 2012, 13:11 #27392

    Well I thoroughly enjoyed it, some of you lot need some happy pills. Giroud might just have kick started his Arsenal career.

  225. Dan h

    Oct 31, 2012, 13:10 #27391

    Crazy evening we started off as though the game was an inconvience & deserved to be 4-0 down.The CB pairing especially made Roberts look like a ballon d'or candidate.What happened after others have covered well Walcott had a storming game & supported by players that had then decided to put some effort in.Giroud & Eisfield made notable substitiute contributions.A real one off comeback last 8 would really like to see us have a go trying to win this but as OGL stated no5 on our list of priorities.I think a lot was made of fans leaving at 4-0 it seemed to me most were going for a HT cup of tea or probably something stronger!

  226. Just because SKY want you to believe something doesn't make it true

    Oct 31, 2012, 13:07 #27390

    Can we ditch this 'six minutes of injury time' myth? Theo scored with 94:59 on the clock. A few people go to their half time toilet break a bit early and it's reported as loads Arsenal fans headed home early. Our away support was MAGNIFICENT last night. Something to be proud of. If that had been the geordies, imagine the praise for their loyalty at 0-4.

  227. Sam

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:55 #27389

    Now I remember why I only "used to" buy the Gooner..... think I'll go read the obituaries in the local rag.... Some of you (including the author) are no better than the politicians that uses every scenario or event to point score with regards to their own views. Something like this should simplify and unify our feelings. It shouldn't be about "pro Wenger" or "anti Wenger", just celebrating a crazy win. How about just enjoying the sheer maddening insanity of last night.... for once? Goals and wins. Back in the day that is what we went to actually see.... not bitch at one another over everything!

  228. Gooner Nation

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:55 #27388

    What crap opinion. Yes very poor first half but 1 goal was a deflected OG and another was a mistake from an inexperienced keeper. They were shell shocked to be 4-0 down. Howerver they showed some balls to come out fighting a stick with it until the death while only conceeding 1 goal and scoring 6! Gooner Ron makes some good points about the good individual contributions from the players you have clearly missed. Most negative comments are from those fans(?) who are anti Wenger and just use the poor first half (which was only poor for about 30 minutes)to slate him. What a second half and ET. It was a second string 11 and they were very poor for 30 minutes, otherwiase a lot of positives. COYG

  229. jj

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:52 #27387

    Good to se Weng has added another one to his school of comedy goalkeepers. And this one, he's flown half way around the globe. We are truly blessed. Hugely enjoyable game but more evidence of the mad professor's insane world.

  230. simon

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:44 #27385

    Iit was a game of two halves and a team of two halves. Some were frankly awful including Frimpong, the keeper, the centre backs and miguel, and chamakh was terrible until he scored his first goal. Others were very good; Elsfield especially looks a real player and I liked Giroud's can do attitude which i think rubbed off on his colleagues. I worry AW's given up on Theo or vice versa but was pleased he got to play the hero and he showed reliability in front of goal which is a precious commodity at Arsenal. So some good things in that game and some bad things but a great outcome.

  231. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:40 #27384

    West End farce last night and Pantomime on Saturday? I wouldn't at all be surprised if the manc's will be shouting on many occasions at whatever incompetent we've got between the sticks: 'The ball...it's behind you!' We want our Arsenal back, indeed.

  232. Esso

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:37 #27383

    You might as well give up if you did n't get any pleasure form this. You dont support Arsenal anymore. Just the Wenger out campaign.

  233. Fozzy

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:35 #27382

    Harsh criticism of our esteemed Online Ed, chaps. I love a good farce and thoroughly enjoyed the entertainment on offer. There is no way we are going to win the Worthless Cup so let's have a bit of fun for once (we need it having watched some dire stuff in the last three matches). What I wanted was a considereed piece that put the game into perspective, and Kev, you got it bang on. I really felt sorry for Reading at the end as they more than did their bit on the night. I would love them to stay in the Prem and watch the likes of QPR, West Ham and Stoke go down instead.

  234. Arsene Apologist

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:33 #27381

    SPOT ON Kevin thank you. Please ignore the usual head-in-sand brigade who will be raging you are not singing master Arsene's praises. The game was a total joke, a showacase exhibition of tactical incompetence. It was literally like watching park football. The throwing shirts into the crowd bit says everything you need to know about the preparation and focus that does not exist at Arsene FC. All the same AKBs who will make excuses for Arsene 'he cannot compete' will completely neglect to mention that Andrey Arshavin cost MORE THAN THE ENTIRE READING TEAM! Oh so did Walcott. Oh and so did Koscielny. Yet Jason Roberts looked like George Weah out there. 100% behind you Kev. It was comical but the AKBs are VERY desperate these days so will cling to ANYTHING as a comfort. Never you mind Kevin let's talk after OT on Saturday eh? We'll have 'first teamer's like Santos, Mannone and Ramsey back eh? LOL

  235. Tony Evans

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:26 #27380

    I take absolutely no satisfaction from last night. Two teams that couldn't defend and a result that typifies the mad world of Arsene Wenger.

  236. Englishmik

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:25 #27379

    Crap article. This was a mix and match Arsenal team who showed amazing spirit to comeback from 4 goals down. Get a life

  237. GoonerRon

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:23 #27378

    Seriously, how you can not summon any sort of enjoyment from the end result is beyond me. 'Me, I just saw incompetence and two poor teams' sums up your view, let me add a few bits in the interests of balance. You didn't see a lovely precision through ball from Arshavin and clinical finish from Theo? You didn't see Giroud score a magnificent header and generally change the game for us? No comment on Coquelin's brilliant, disciplined marshalling of a very expansive midfield in the last 75 minutes? No comment on the boo boys effective performances (i.e. Arshavin's three assists, Theo hat trick and number of assists)? No comment on a really encouraging debut from Eisfeld? Yes, we defended abysmally in the first half but we put it right in the second.

  238. Simon F

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:22 #27377

    Sometimes you have to accept crazy games just happen.. Football as an event is at is best when two teams just go for it. Yes the defending was shocking etc etc but having watched organised defensive teams suck the life out of games over the last 10 years it was great to watch. Credit to Walcott in particular, he was immense in this game!!!

  239. Steve

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:22 #27376

    Kev is spot on. Wenger will use the cameback to hail his grweatest ever win. Although it was great to watch for the neutral there's no hiding the fact that Arsenal made the keystone cops looks efficient! To go 4-0 in such a fashion makes the players a disgrace to wear the shirt. Yes they deserve credit but the stark reality is that Arsenal Football Club is a total shambles on the pitch. As for the Board do they care? Of course not! They are only interested in exploiting the fans, making large profits and giving Ivan a big fat bonus despite winning nothing for seven seasons.

  240. Mark

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:21 #27374

    We won because in the end we had Walcott £12m Giroud £13m and Arshavin £15m on the pitch and Reading took off the best player on the pitch off.For 89 mins it was a shocking performance.The keeper is actually worse than Flappy and Mannone just when you thought we couldnt have anymore bad keepers at the club we do.Koscielny is a shadow of the player he was.He was lucky not to get send off and scored another OG(how many is that???)Frimpong makes Song look good he is and never will be good enough for us.Another spanking awaits on saturday.The fans got it right when they sang "We want our Arsenal back".

  241. Bard

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:18 #27373

    Cheer up Kev, it was pretty surreal stuff, bit like one of those West End comedies. Take a few positives out of it Arshavin and Chamakh discovered they can play football and one or two of the youngsters looked useful. Good to see we have another useless keeper waiting in the wings, but hey we don't want to 'Kill' his career by getting a decent one. Christ knows what Bouldy thought of it. Roll on Man U

  242. JJB

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:11 #27372

    Jog on Kev! you are the PHW of this site, you lot forget that football is a sport and a form of entertainment! Yes there were many reasons to be frustrated but a 7-5 game is a rareity, so why cant we just enjoy the madness? So boring mate

  243. clockendjim

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:10 #27371

    All those Arsenal fans leaving the ground when the 4th Reading goal went in must feel really stupid this morning as they missed witnessing one of the greatest ever comebacks. However there were many lessons to be learned from this match. Firstly our backup centre backs are just not good enough - what has happened to Koscielny this season ? I hope players like Djourou are just moved on in the rumoured (again) clear-out in January. The midfield was non-existent in the first half, but thankfully we are well covered here by all the players that were not in the side last night. However Thomas Eisfeld was about the biggest plus for me when he came on. I have been watching him in reserve games and he has impressed me enormously. He looks and plays like Jack Wilshere - what a prospect. Most importantly Wenger must give the central striking partnership of Giroud & Walcott a good try to bring out the best in both of them. This could also solve the Theo contract wrangle if it works as well as last night. I just hope Wenger takes this competition more seriously now as being in the quarter-finals it may be our best chance of a trophy this season. Not too great, but at least it would silence the 'no silverware for 7 years' brigade.

  244. Steve Bould's Shorts

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:08 #27370

    Kevin Whitcher for once in your life just enjoy! It almost sounds like you're gutted the ref played those 6 minutes injury time.

  245. Jackoff

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:05 #27369

    Got to agree with ZB20H's assessment above. We all recognise the issues and most of us realise that none of them will be solved anytime soon, so surely it's all the more important to actually be able to take some enjoyment from a victory like this? If you can't then I wonder why you bother going to games let alone commentating on them on this website afterwards.

  246. Seven Kings Gooner

    Oct 31, 2012, 12:02 #27368

    Two Sunday League teams playing with a hangover - funny Kev should mention the 5-4 with "The Spuds" Mourinho said that was a hockey score not a football score.These kinds of defensive collapses that have been happening for the last 4 - 5 years are as a result of AW abandoning sound football coaching principles. Playing rookie keepers, centre backs with no positional sense - (because it is not taught to them) a back four that cannot move forward or backwards as a unit. The captain's armband has no relevence to the rest of the team, where before messers Mercer, McClintock and Adams lead from the front. Arsenal Football club is now a brand that will soon, if you collect 10 Starbuck's vouchers it will entitle you to a free ticket to the Em*rites. The club is dying but the few who can see it can do nothing about it - Help!

  247. James

    Oct 31, 2012, 11:58 #27367

    A joke match with two joke teams with a joke manager.If you saw a game on Hackney with that standard of football you would say both teams had been on the lash the night before.In the cold light of day we conceded FIVE goals against a team that hasnt won a league game all season.So much for the influence of Steve Bould.Defeat last night following on by two certain defeats by Man Utd and Schalke must mean the end of Wenger.Last night reminded me of the days of Spurs under Ardiles there can be no higher condemnation of the failure of Wenger.You can almost smell the end of Wenger.Amen to that

  248. Rob

    Oct 31, 2012, 11:56 #27366

    Crazy stuff. But that point about the shirts ! As you say, what on earth does this say about squad preparation ?? Is there any ? And if there isn't on these occasions, are there any for PL matches. Perhaps it's trying to get the very basics across that leaves Bouldy looking so grumpy ?

  249. Savage

    Oct 31, 2012, 11:52 #27365

    Boring Kevin. Sometimes you just don't get it.

  250. ianmac

    Oct 31, 2012, 11:48 #27364

    You're spot on Kev, shambolic defending all over the pitch, disorganised, no tactics, ill prepared, just sums up the manager really. I'm certain Steve Bould is not allowed any say other than to warm them up. It's frightening and the sooner we get the manager out the better. The worry for me was Koscielny. I thought he had really come on last season but the ease with which he was beaten by a has been like Roberts left me shaking my head. There is obviously no defensive coaching at Arsenal, the player himself has to be able to do it, and if not then you'll keep getting what happened last night. Don't want to think about Saturday, I'll take a 2 nil loss right now.

  251. Gooner no. 1984

    Oct 31, 2012, 11:44 #27363

    Your worst article ever I'm afraid. Reading were spot on with their tactics at the start: played 4-4-2 pressed up ridiculously high up the pitch, which prevented our team (of ELEVEN changes) from establishing any kind of settled patterns of play. They also played very physically which we always struggle with and ultimately 2 of our conceded goals were keeper errors. The reason they didn't 'shut up shop' is because they've tried that a few times this season if you hadn't noticed... Their forward play is much better than defence so they kept it at a level where they'd have chances (and it paid off with 5 mins of extra time left). As time went on with something like 30% possession, they grew very tired chasing the ball (like most teams with Barca/Spain) Regarding the 'bonus' stoppage time- virtually complete agreement on the BBC article with comments on this. A substitution is 30 seconds extra, plus Reading were time wasting on two of their free kicks the goal time was something like 94:58, dishonest to highlight the recorded goal time which is always a minute later! All in all this was a team that had never played together and really showed character to come back. It was great to see upcoming youngster Eisfield and Miquel show such class and equally great to see Arshavin and Chamakh put in such great shifts when considered players of the past. Giroud was also immense and I believe he prefers receiving the ball deeper than has been the case with the first team. Sorry you didn't like it but this was never going to be a tight performance from a team of 'strangers'...

  252. Ron

    Oct 31, 2012, 11:42 #27362

    A good fun game! If we cant have a team that competes for the the primary titles, at least have one that gives the Cups a good go. Thats all many of us have asked for quite a few years Mr Wenger! Will they properly try and win it when faced with a better opponent? Who the heck knows!

  253. ZB20H

    Oct 31, 2012, 11:37 #27361

    Are you even capable of enjoying football any more?