Indifference the best medicine?

Ongoing decline a bitter pill to swallow…



Indifference the best medicine?

Kroneke: The buck stops with him


“Too many times we have been assured of a reaction following an abject surrender, and too many times there has been more of the same.” (“Thierry Henry: perspective and retrospective” 23 February 2012)

Due largely to work commitments and also a reluctance to repeat myself, I have not written here for some considerable time. Simon Rose finally persuaded me to join the Twitter universe and I have to thank him for his persistence. There is a cathartic serenity to be had from offloading post-match angst, before moving on and looking forward. Unfortunately, efforts to move on and look forward are intermittently punctuated by this squad’s propensity to self–destruct. In truth, this continual trait has not been addressed. Although Steve Bould’s promotion to coach appeared to buck this trend, in the event it has represented nothing more than a welcome interlude in the paucity of defending.

Heresy it may be, but, in my view, Gary Neville is a fine pundit. Hated as a stalwart of Manchester United’s successes for a decade, he is unbiased, succinct and adds value with his insight and directness. Like Bould, he was integral to a balanced, well-drilled defence, within a team that defended from front to back. M. Wenger seems not only to have neglected the importance of such organisation, but, far worse, is rumoured to have taken severe umbrage to the praise heaped on Bould for his contribution to a temporary improvement. Martin Keown was credited with our defensive solidity during the Champions League run of 2006, but was ultimately marginalised. History appears to be repeating itself.

Neville was quick to dismiss Arsenal in our current guise. Only the most myopic could argue with the opinion that the 2–1 scoreline represented a huge flattery of the visitors. He said that this was the best he had seen United play all season. I cannot comment, but I fear that this is not the worst that we will play this season. Individually, we have some excellent players, but these are supplemented by a majority who are inconsistent, incapable or apparently indifferent. Quite rightly, Wenger has faced increasingly forthright criticism. However, the buck – quite literally – stops with Stanley Enos Kroenke.

At the recent AGM, Ivan Gazidis once again appealed for patience. In truth, football fans, despite the spectrum of views, generally know when they are being had… and seven years without a trophy suggests that the figures don’t add up. There is some hope in the League Cup again this year, with a favourable quarter-final draw, but the perception remains that we will crumble the moment the going gets tough.

Let us disabuse ourselves of the romantic notion that this Board represents our vision. They are custodians of Silent Stan’s investment. I have no doubt that it rankles with him that there is a large space within the stadium which cannot be utilised for the maximisation of merchandising opportunities. Regrettably, his only interest in everything beyond the white line amounts to trading surpluses. George Graham was rumoured to be on a commission of trading profits during his reign. Having inherited the best of Graham’s recruits, Wenger’s behaviour suggests that he may be enjoying similar benefits. A decline in quality has coincided with an inverse proportion of financial gains.

The Arsenal internet-forums are awash with vitriol and the outpouring of anger. Booing at games has become commonplace, with some choosing to affront players in unacceptable ways. Ultimately, Stan Kroenke is indifferent. Gazidis is well paid to act as a buffer for his taskmasters – an American with a penchant for average sports franchises and a French autocrat governed by extreme megalomania. The other focus of Gazidis’ remit is to maximise the available potential from the imminent renewal of the shirt-sponsorship and stadium-naming rights. That is the crux of his accountability, the inconvenience of occasionally having to meet fans and appease the raging mob being just that.

The increasing number of empty seats at home games is not a management priority. They have, after all, been paid for in advance and so falling attendances can be ignored in the short term. Emphasis is placed on corporate hospitality and its attendant riches. The majority of these “guests” are the demographic with whom the Board wish to relate. Football is a sideshow, a necessary distraction but certainly not the raison d'être. The players are disproportionately rewarded without sufficient responsibility, whilst the fans and other visitors to the “Citadel of Cash” are trusted to continue their blind devotion and/or desire to experience the match-day vacuum of atmosphere.

Defeat against Manchester United used to hurt. Hurt like hell. Now, our inability to compete (despite platitudes to the contrary) has resulted in an expectation that we are likely to lose against the bigger teams. I find it hard to demonise Robin van Persie, much as I regret the basis of his long-since-taken decision to move on to bigger things. Adebayor is no parameter of class, but compare his reaction to scoring against us following his move to Manchester City; the Dutch striker was reasonably demure in his celebrations. It may be unpalatable, but this was a career move based upon football ambition, evidenced by his rebuttal of Manchester City’s advances. It took no more than three minutes for him to be vindicated on Saturday.

The question is, who will be next to escape? Theo Walcott looks a good bet, but I wonder whether Jack Wilshere will enjoy a long term future at Arsenal. We are a selling club by design and, whilst following in Chelsea’s repugnant footsteps courtesy of Alisher Usmanov feels morally indefensible, the current model is far removed from the sporting ambitions of our recent former glories.

Prior to the sponsorship deals becoming reality, the Board will retain the policy of chancing their luck with Champions League qualification. That their luck has so far held is remarkable, but no guarantee of future entry into Europe’s premier club competition. Inevitably, given the fickle nature of Lady Luck, sooner rather than later, this gamble is likely to backfire. Rather than insure against it by spending commensurate with income, the Board reserve the money which would be forfeit in the event of not qualifying.

In light of all this, the only remedy against repeated disappointment may be total indifference. I have done my best to insulate myself from the pain of mediocrity, by significantly lowering my expectations. Whilst I cannot be indifferent, I occasionally envy the corporate brigade, most of whom do not pretend to care beyond the availability of their next overpriced drink. What I can do I have done, learning the hard way to ignore feckless promises and form my own views of what I see.

Gary Neville has worked it out and so, for some time, have most of our supposed rivals. They know, but have no vested interest in a change of approach or direction for Arsenal. Unforgivably, the Board must be as aware, but stubbornly maintain a short-sighted vision, despite the possibility of brand enhancement which accompanies success. With no incentive to remedy the shortcomings, we as fans are forced to like it or lump it. Frustrated at the dearth of meaningful alternatives, fans are having to face up to deciding where between those polarities they stand.


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  1. Joe S.

    Nov 08, 2012, 5:49 #27781

    There's nothing more repugnant than Silant Stan determining the future of Arsenal. It is no longer our club. Here is someone who would probably advocate widening the goal posts, time outs for commercial breaks, tweeking the offside rule aqnd introducing power plays in order topander the plastic fans and maximise his investments. This is sport as he knows it. Something totally deviod of passion. Arsene Wegner, Gazidis, Kroneke - The Horror, The Horror The Horror!

  2. Jason B

    Nov 07, 2012, 0:05 #27707

    Let's not stop with Wenger.Just watched two goal lead slip.Kamikaze defending.Steve Bould,defence guru? hahahaa.Oh please.Do me a favour.

  3. TFG

    Nov 06, 2012, 19:09 #27705

    So there you have it... You can please all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time; but you can't please all of the people all of the time. @tfgwrites

  4. Marky mark

    Nov 06, 2012, 18:22 #27704

    Just read a book called the Arsenal Miscellany by Dan Brennan. It really brings home how the clubs standards, both on and off the pitch have slipped. There was a real pride in everything associated with the club, but this appears to have slowly been eroded over the last decade. Ex players speak of their pride of being part of The Arsenal, right thru to people who have worked for the club for many years. I fear that there would not be much worth writing to look back on thats good from the last few years, can you see it improving in it's current guise ?

  5. ppp

    Nov 06, 2012, 17:13 #27703

    You use tedious words like an indignant sixth former. You cite Gary Neville as the doyen of everything. You talk about your lack of enthusiasm for Arsenal. Could it be that you were never really that bothered in the first place?

  6. Ron

    Nov 06, 2012, 16:18 #27702

    GaryFootscray - Could be right there mate. Kolo Toure perhaps?

  7. keff wright

    Nov 06, 2012, 16:02 #27701

    The old fashioned shareholder ownership of football clubs,going back to the days of local businessmen investing in clubs to the current foreign ones at AFC, is a dead duck in the water. The Abramovich and Mansor types are (whether we like it or not)the new model that is proving more successful ,at least in winning trophies that is,than the old shareholder type of club. The Abromvich type put their own money into their club to win trophies,that is their main motivation as to why they buy a football club. Kroneke's main interest is in showing a profit on his investment in AFC on the multi- millions that he borrowed to buy his shares with. Personally if given a choice then I would go with the sugar daddy type and give our Yankee Doodle dandies Silent Stan and Ivan the liar a swerve. Cue a drum roll and the East Ender's theme followed by chorus of doomsday predictions that would follow if Usmanov or the Sultan Of Bruni were to take AFC over. Actually the current financial strategy at AFC is built on shaky foundations. Wenger getting CL football every season and supporters continuing to pay the highest prices in football to watch a team in a stadium some call 'Neverland'- because trophies are never seen there. Regarding the stadium - and the claims that Arsenal supporters should be grateful for the shareholders ( now all gone with their huge payoffs from selling their shares to Stan) who himself borrowed millions to pay for it - this contrasts with the Dombass Arena stadium that Shaktar's owner built and paid for out of his own pocket . That's what I see as being something that supporters should be thanful for.

  8. BringBackDene

    Nov 06, 2012, 15:11 #27700

    We are going onto the pitch already beaten, even with RVP, even with Fabregas and Clichy and Adebayor, we still had too many games with a beaten mentality. That is the fault of the MANAGER not Kroneke.

  9. Rocky RIP

    Nov 06, 2012, 15:10 #27699

    To 'Arsenal fans get what they desrve' .. I'm not exonerating Wenger. Ofcourse he's massively accountable for poor performances, bad attitudes, etc, but my beef isn't with the manager. It isn't even strictly based on results. We could win a trophy this season and I'd still maintain the same stance. I'm aligning myself firmly with the BSM. Read their website. The aims of the walk pre-Swansea and the 'about us' 'our campaigns' section. It's virtually impossible to disagree with them, and they are at pains to point out they are NOT anti the manager. The problems stem from above the manager and the way core fans feel alienated, disengaged. I firmly agree with the concept expressed on here of needing more fan representation. A seat on the board from someone who is a fan. S.K. doesn't give a monkeys about fanshare, but we need a level of ownership or it'll get worse.

  10. Ron

    Nov 06, 2012, 13:38 #27697

    Tony - I read that article. Its staggering who and how much those dud players earn. Makes me glad i no longer contribute to it though!

  11. Fozzy's mate

    Nov 06, 2012, 13:36 #27696

    TFG - I admire you defence of Simon and in a way the optimism and loyalty of Simon and the likes of Joshua and Mandy Dodd is admirable. But when the likes of Joe Fitzpatrick even realise they have been had, we all must. A nice piece generation some good debate. I'm with you that a difference of opinion is simply that nothing else. Unfortunately unlike when Jimmy Tarbuck had a difference of opinion for us it doesn't end up with winner takes all! Except for the DDT and MSS.

  12. ATID

    Nov 06, 2012, 13:30 #27695

    Yes, I know how you feel TFG. Can't really get angry anymore as it is all so predictable. Same weaknesses, same excuses, same tired old faces. AKB anyone?

  13. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Nov 06, 2012, 12:06 #27693

    goonercolesyboy, Bent may well be of some use come January...but he's a tried & tested Premiership player who may knock a dent in the club's profit margin so I don't think he's coming (Arteta is a one - off in that regard). I have a feeling that Ollie Gazidis, Tricky Dicky and OGA {Our Great Alsatian) will be flicking desperately through their phone books at 11.30pm on Jan 31, trying to convince an ex - Invincible to come out of retirement...in the interest of generating short - term "razamatazz factor" from a player who won titles with Arsenal Past...or whatever marketing exercise triggers the tourist fan to part with their readies at the lowest cost to the business....

  14. Highbury Boy

    Nov 06, 2012, 11:56 #27692

    Message to Bob (Post 30428). Don't forget Rosicky will be another LANS while Denilson and Bendtner could return with valuable overseas experience ,especially useful in the latter stages of the CL.

  15. Dandy Mod, off your rocker!

    Nov 06, 2012, 11:20 #27689

    Oh, but we are still very much in the hunt for 4th, and that will mean continuous qualification. As Arsene sets that out as his primary target it's not a failure. You must realise that FFP will ultimately show that Arsene and Arsenal will compete Arsene's way. Then we will be able to see his expertise come to the fore again. Look at how he buys good players and sells at a higher rate. Which manager can do that. Of course we all want success, but who is better placed than Arsene to get us there once more.

  16. Gare Kekeke

    Nov 06, 2012, 11:16 #27688

    @ Tony Evans, my Online Gooner ally; I’ve just seen the Arsenal Truth website with regards to the weekly pay of the players and the figures are staggering beyond belief. As my good friend Tony says, please look at the latest blog. Surely it kills the myth that we have don’t have any money. I doubt it though; some fans will believe that Wenger is working on a limited budget as a way to defend his shortcomings in recent seasons. And according to the board, and it’s on the official Arsenal website, last season’s wage was £143.4m. You couldn’t make it up. Good article btw TFG. Up The Arsenal!

  17. DerbyGooner

    Nov 06, 2012, 10:32 #27687

    Excellent article, with very well constructed arguments. AW has much to answer for, but I agree with your analysis regarding Kroenke and the rest of the board. As you say it used to hurt like mad to lose to the evil empire, and for me it still does..but in my heart I never expected to get anything on Saturday and that is the hardest thing to admit - WE ARE THE ARSENAL! for heaven's sake - never to quietly and lamely into the dark!! Unfortunately, indifference is not an option for me as I feel must continue to show leadership, resilience and fortitude to the next generation of Gooners - at least when I rant and rave they can see it matters. I absolutely hate it when The Arsenal lose, and the young Gooners also need to continue to engage, know and love The Arsenal. I'm old enough to remember the rubbish served up through the 70's after the rapid break-up of the double-winning side, and the casual aceptance of the average and mediocre....the current performances and organisation has all the hallmarks of the same demise. Every successful enterprise (and life-form for that matter)must have the ability to adapt, change and respond to it's environment, and if that is absent then decline is inevitable, and extinction an extreme possibility. The sheer bloody-mindedness of those currently in charge of our club beggars belief and drives me to distraction. In the absence of any evidence of planning and preparation for success, the only option for me is to continue to hurt and endure and....(insert your own Churchillian speach here...circa 1940 to 1942). 'COME ON YOU GUNNERS'.

  18. TheManOnTheTube

    Nov 06, 2012, 10:18 #27686

    All we need right now is to stop going to the games, as long as there's 55,000 plus fans at the Emirates we're an American fat cat's plaything! It's true, the board WILL see once the revenue begins to fall because fans are TIRED of watching a carcass of once a brilliant team. Kroenke OUT, Gazidis OUT.

  19. Tony Evans

    Nov 06, 2012, 8:22 #27683

    I am plugging the Arsenal Truth website again, but all please look at the latest AT blog which summarises the Arsenal salary budget. You will see how much money Wenger has quite literally thrown away on rubbish. If anyone is still pro Wenger after reading it then there is no hope for us.

  20. David the Price is right

    Nov 06, 2012, 7:43 #27682

    Looks like black November striking AGAIN, every damn year. The injury jinx is rearing it's ugly head again too. The current spin is Arsenal have the best defensive record; FOR HOW LONG ARSENE? Is Chesney actuall y injured. Sometimes I wonder, as it's Wenger's way to mislead. The young Pole may have been demoted for now. Santos, a good Brazilian from Turkey? At full back? I'm not convinced, is anybody? Here we are again, going toe to toe with the others for the minor placings. That my fellow fans is the total ******* NET BULGING EFFECT of it all. Well done RVP for joining a club that cares about winning, and arms itself to that EFFECT. Wenger OUT. Gazidis and Kroenke to follow as a by-product would be lovely.

  21. Moscow Gooner

    Nov 06, 2012, 6:29 #27680

    Bob: 'keep the faith'. I agree: given the dross around in the Premiership I think we probably can make 4th or even 3rd this season - so what? This just ensures that this rotten regime stays in place for another season. It doesn t take the club forward in any way. It won t ensure we keep our best players. It is not a trophy. It s no longer any reason to celebrate - quite the opposite.

  22. Any Old Iron

    Nov 06, 2012, 4:21 #27679

    I would rather finish below 4th and be better placed to win the Europa, than qualify for the Champs league and be no where near good enough to win it. Incidentally, we are not even good enough to win the group stages. Another 2nd finish, or worse beckons. Please remind me, we can't even top the weaker groups. Which has happened, and will again! Of all the notable teams that regularly qualify for this competition Arsenal appear to be the weakest outfit. Lots of hair splitting about coefficients and net spends. Wenger has over-achieved in accordance with transfer budget and points collected I hear. By that logic more would garner MORE? I can't believe that a top class keeper has still not been signed. Yet he scours Balkan outposts for cheapo lower league goalies. The brinkmanship employed with players' contracts. We will lose Walcott. Some fans won't care. But the continual flux at the club will eventually derail it. Actually it's unsteady on the tracks now. Wenger out!

  23. GUNNERMIKE

    Nov 06, 2012, 4:08 #27678

    QUICK COMMENT ON THE SANTOS SHIRT ISSUE . IN BRAZIL THIS HAPPENS AT MOST GAMES AT HALF TIME SO ITS A CULTURAL THING .DOESNT ALTER THE FACT THAT HE IS NOT A FULL BACK BUT DONT CONDEMN HIM FOR DOING WHAT IS USUAL BEHAVIOUR IN BRAZIL PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL

  24. Bob

    Nov 05, 2012, 21:44 #27672

    AKB! keep the faith boys. Grass ain't greener on the other side. I think we can get 4th this year. Once Diaby and Gibbs are back we'll be right up there.

  25. Gooner age

    Nov 05, 2012, 20:38 #27670

    People can differ on what arsene's future should be, but I don't think there can be any argument that he not sk or the board is responsible for the position we are in. He was driving the move to the knew stadium (in the knowledge this would substantially cut our resources). The youth project did not start in earnest till 2005 when our team was ageing and in decline. If he had wanted to be self sustaining we should have a much younger and stronger squad in 2005. The other option was to find a very rich person to invest in the team, which dein did. Wenger did not support this and backed sk as the way forward. Tactically wenger has had full control of the team since day one and also picks the players we are going to sign. Contract negoitations also go through arsene it would seem and he interviewed IG for his job. The fans have until recently applied very little pressure and even now do are bit by selling out the stadium week after week. Sorry you can argue whether we should be happy or sad that we're going to finish forth. But be under no illusions the plaudits or the boo's should be directed to mr wenger

  26. Chrisy boy

    Nov 05, 2012, 20:13 #27669

    How do we protest and vent our anger at kroenke when he's never around at games, and with the extra tv money coming in next season a few more empty seats won't bother him to much. Ivan gazidis was ment to make a presentation on the pitch in the game against QPR , but he refused to do it due to the fear of abuse he would have received. I'm at a loss trying to think of ideas of getting through to not only those two but to wenger as well,, my problem is I want to show my support to Arsenal football club without abuse and protest affecting our results. What do we do gooners ,

  27. Marble Balls

    Nov 05, 2012, 19:58 #27668

    To suggest that real fans could even feign indifference to our Club's current plight is patently absurd. In my view though the only way that any resolution can ever come about will be the ensuing monetary pain to the owner when we stop winning that annual "trophy" of ECL qualification. However, for the foreseeable future, three of the four available ECL places are fully bought, if not fairly paid for, so that means some other Club would have to be consistently denying us the remaining place. When you realise which Club that could very well be, the prospect fills me for one with even more foreboding!

  28. gonnercolesyboy

    Nov 05, 2012, 19:24 #27666

    I agree with most if not all of the posts on here, which have a wide ranging view of what is wrong at the Arsenal. I realise this has been said before on the playing side but in my opinion the team set up is so definitely wrong that it is hard to understand the logic of playing players out of position just to include them. Poor Ramsey should not be played as a right sided wide player or wide anywhere, and if he has to play which is debatable, then as the central holding player and allow a combination of Arteta Wilshere and Cazorla to be the playmakers and then play two from Podolski, Walcott and Giroud up top. Allow Jenkinson/Gibbs and Sagna to get into wide areas and let Mertesacker and Vermaelen defend. Of course missing key players with injury doesn't help but that is why it is now a squad game. The tempo has dropped so dramatically that it is too easy for the opposition to keep their shape. The other major concern is that we are creating so few chances, at least before we had shots/attempts and couldn't hit the target, now we have had less than double digit chances in the last three games combined, excluding Reading! I too fear tomorrow's game at Schalke but it wouldn't surprise me if we won, so unpredictable and erratic we have become for the last 7 years. Even George Graham thinks Wenger is still the right man but said he must learn from the mistakes of the team, which he, for reasons unknown, seems unable to do. It will be interesting to see what happens when January comes around and where we lie in all competitions and to what extent they decide to add players to the squad so the trophy drought can be lifted. I wonder if Darren Bent could be of assistance, an Arsenal fan and obviously out of favour at Villa and a proven goal scorer....just a thought.

  29. Wombledin

    Nov 05, 2012, 19:22 #27665

    Not indifference but patience. As soon as we drop out of the top four the fans will turn viciously against Wenger and he will be gone. And that's when the fatcats start to get hit in the pocket too. Last season only one man, RVP, saved that from happening but not this season.

  30. Arsenal fans get the club they deserve

    Nov 05, 2012, 19:10 #27664

    Big Andy- Kroenke will never sack Wenger while fans like Rocky RIP exonerate him of all responsibility.

  31. Peter Wain

    Nov 05, 2012, 19:10 #27663

    One of the things I would dispute about Arsene Wenger's recent transfer dealings is that he has not spent money. He may not have spent enough but when you add up the money spent on Gervinho Arshavin Park Santos Giround and Podborski you will get to about £60 million pounds. all of these purchases are awful and are not premiership class. When you add in the large contracts given to Denilson Bendtner Vela Diaby the figure just grows. Arsene Wenger use to buy top quality players but has not doen for several years. His argument concerning champions league qualification is false as the type of player who would only play for clubs in the CL are not the ones we try to buy. Arsene Wenger shops in the second third and fourth divisions and only brings in these types of players. So whether we qualify for CL or not I do not see that this makes any difference to his recruits. Lets face it could any one say that Gervinho Giroud and Podborski would be purchased by another reasonable CL club. We should ahve invested in top quality players when we had CL qualification. Now we are about to lose it it is too late and once out of the top four we will not attarct top quality players. the only solution is to ply over the odds for top players so that we can regain the top four and PL qualifiacation. unfortunately the yank will not understand the snake oiled salesman will argue the toss and Wenger will refuse to do it. So they have to fgo and today would not be too soon

  32. Deja Vu

    Nov 05, 2012, 19:08 #27662

    I wonder what the club will do with all the extra cash it gets from the renegotiation of its sponsorship deals. My guess is that we'll see Stan taking a fat dividend out, IG and our excellent (no,not really) commercial team trousering even bigger bonuses (I mean if IG gets £2m when we make a loss (before player sales), what will he earn when the real money comes flooding in?) and our manager and loyal players will be paid even more handsomely. Ticket and membership prices will continue to rise, we will continue to sell our best players and replace them with inferior ones and Arsene will continue to manage the team and ask to be judged at the end of the season. We will continue potless but may finish 4th in a good year - which is a trophy after all (just kidding). Our majority shareholder (and our substantial minority shareholder too, though he will pretend otherwise) will be happy, our commercial team will be happy, the players will be happy and Arsene will be happy. Fans will continue to drift steadily away and there will be no-one to inspire a new generation . The seeds of decline are now firmly rooted in the club. When I started supporting the club they'd gone 10 years - which became 17 years - without a trophy and I get the feeling that the current drought will be just as long.

  33. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Nov 05, 2012, 19:01 #27661

    Idiot, I think you're halfway right - it is the manager's responsibility as to which players are brought into the club, and the success rate of the club's transfer dealings over the past six to seven years has been about 50/50, which isn't good enough for a club that should be trying to win major trophies. To borrow your metaphor, if I was in Wandsworth Maccas and it was a pig - sty, first of all I wouldn't be at all surprised - it's an inner city fast food chain, having worked in one years ago I can assure you they are ALL pig - sty's at one point or another...but in response to your point, I would see that the shift manager as complicit and responsible, but the floor staff would also be responsible for a lack of application and concentration, or simply doing what is expected in their role. Next time you're in Wandsworth Maccas, let me know if there's a tall organised German and an intense hard - working Spaniard holding the place together...

  34. jj

    Nov 05, 2012, 18:56 #27660

    The board are complacent but the manager has become incompetent.

  35. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 05, 2012, 18:51 #27659

    Good post chris dee and can i just add something to it.And will be enduring again.

  36. Buddy

    Nov 05, 2012, 18:43 #27658

    I hate to admit it BUT I agree with your comments about Gary Neville. He use to really get up my nose but he has turned into a insisive pundit. His assesment of our club is dead right - we use to be a seriouse threat but now we are just meat for the grinder. We never looked in the game and were flattered by the final score. The boys in the away end got it right when they sung "we want our Arsenal back". Is that going to happen - no I don't think so. We now have to get use to picking up scraps from the big boys - chavs like Chelsea and the other money bag clubs that UEFA are never going to punish! You really think they will ban Barca and Real Madrid, no nore me. I'll always be a fan but it still hurts to hear the bull**** pouring out of the E******S.

  37. mark from aylesbury

    Nov 05, 2012, 18:29 #27657

    Sorry but Kronke and Gazidis dont manage the team. Useless though they are. Wengers control freakery and his inability to move forward are to blame. Slightly Clough like I feel in his loss of brilliance with a refusal to see the dying of the light. Sorry but sooner Wenger goes the better. Meanwhile to help things along dont turn up. Let the empty seats be a testimony to the current refime.

  38. TFG

    Nov 05, 2012, 18:05 #27656

    A few points, if I may: "a French autocrat governed by extreme megalomania"... the very definition of an AKB. Ultimately, to dissect your analogy, it is the responsiblity of the CEO to filter down appropriate training to ensure that the branch in Wandsworth does not breach relevant legislation. I know for a fact that McDonalds have corporate offices in North London and key to this is that the proximity of the higher management strata is NOT based in Colorado. People are employed to overview and manage the minutia. Similaly, Kroenke is not obliged to allow Wenger to continue mismanaging his squad - he does not challenge it, because it suits him. Simon Rose is a very dear friend of mine. I can tell you without doubt that he is Arsenal through and through. We do not always agree on every aspect of interpretation regarding the Club, but he is entitled to his opinion and I respect that. There are many points on which we are in total agreement. In the event that your opinion differs from someone else's, I would invite you to state your case -rather than indulge in playground name-calling. Perhaps the problem here is this: in the same way that someone can read this piece and conclude that it is AKB propoganda, so other pieces are open to interpretation and misinterpretation. Ultimately, we all share the same desire - to see this Club successful. As to how we may achieve this success - that is subject to opinion. Without opinion, there would be no sites such as this and in my view, we would be all the poorer for it. Peace.

  39. Big Andy

    Nov 05, 2012, 18:00 #27655

    @Idiotic: You are dead right about Wenger, but you are failing to spot the massive hole in your argument. Kroenke is Wenger's boss. If your subordinate is failing to do his job properly then shouldn't he be sacked? A fish always rots from the head down, that's why TFG is dead right when he says that the real problem is Kroenke. The real problem at our club is that our American owner doesn't seem give a damn that the club is being run by a megalomaniac who has completely lost the plot. Kroenke's only concern appears to be counting the money as it comes in. Even if we don't spend an extra penny we could be a far better side - but we need a manager who will spend the money efficiently. Not this waster Wenger.

  40. shaun

    Nov 05, 2012, 17:42 #27654

    The only way to change things is to protest outside the ground on a match day, and protest from kick off till the end of the game. This should be done continually throughout the season until wenger goes. He bought the trash, most of which we can't get rid off because of the wages we pay them. I hope we finish mid-table as well.

  41. Steve Harding

    Nov 05, 2012, 17:41 #27653

    Although you say that empty seats can be ignored by the board in the short term, I still believe that this is the most effective way of demonstrating our anger at how the club is being run. What about selecting a forthcoming home game when all season tickets holders who oppose the current club policy boycott the match. I accept that the club will still receive the same gate receipts as normal, but if 10,000 - 20,000 seats were left empty it would certainly get the message across not only at the Emirates but all the way to Denver.

  42. Ron

    Nov 05, 2012, 16:54 #27652

    The question is - Is it a syrup, a Rooney/Elton John weave job or is it his own? Lets concentrate on what matters at Arsenal guys. We ve nothing else to debate. Its all been said!!

  43. AFCIC

    Nov 05, 2012, 16:40 #27650

    Are we a 'sleeping giant' yet? Is it just me or can anyone else hear snoring?

  44. Refuse to sink to a level of indifference

    Nov 05, 2012, 16:23 #27648

    That's what really hurts. Resigning oneself to levels of indifference in order to cope. I found myself doing this durung the Man U game as it was screamingly obvious we wouldn't win and after all, nobody else on the pitch seemed as bothered as me, so why should I bust a gut? So very very wrong. Don't let the fickle corpotates, plastic 'fans', indifferent tourists, clueless JCLs and mercenary players dilute the passion!

  45. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 05, 2012, 16:11 #27646

    Yes TFG how many times have we heard or been told we have to learn from this, we're going to learn from this, we have learned, only for it to be shown we haven't. What actually happens on the training ground ? are they been told and shown where/what their doing wrong is there any effort been made to put it right ? or are they just to thick.This rumor doing the rounds about bouldy and wenger if true is worrying but something is going on i may have missed it but when was the last time they were shown talking to each other or in discussion.I agree defeat to the mancs used to be hard to take even the mancs fans that i know don't see it as a big game anymore they have bigger fish to fry and don't even bother dishing out the usual crap verbally or by texts and how can RVP be blamed for moving to bigger and better things why he did was there for everybody to see.Our luck has held in CL qualification alright especially last season and when it does run out no matter what contingency plans have been laid you can bet it will still be a massive blow not only for the fans but to the egos of one or two individuals imagine the spin that will be put on that.

  46. Rocky RIP

    Nov 05, 2012, 15:14 #27644

    A very good article. I do, however, agree with the comment from Highbury Boy about being unable to do indifference. I do feel resigned at times, but then that's an unacceptable attitude. We are The Arsenal for f**** sake. We should never let our standards and ambitions drop. It's the sense of powerlessness that hurts. We are owned by someone who just doesn't care as long as loyal fans pay up, and Wenger delivers him profits. I've just read the clearly defined aims of the BSM/Where has OUR Arsenal gone's walk pre-Swanswea and they get my vote. We used to have a board driven by fans such as Danny Fiszman who understood what fans wanted and didn't neglect core supporters in favour of tourists, corporates or affluent JCLs. We need to speak up against the people who are responsible and need to be held accountable (and I don't mean Wenger.)

  47. I remember when Arsenal cared about its supporters

    Nov 05, 2012, 14:53 #27642

    As I have responded before nothing will change until Arsenal supporters have a minimum of one seat on the board. Then we will find out what really is going on. It is the complete absence of accountability of the board;Ivan the terrible;the manager and players that leads us to this place. Silent absent landlord Stan may financially own the club but the supporters are its real custodians. Power is given, control is taken, we need as supporters to have a conserted campaign to get a seat on the board and up the accountability stakes. Cosy "chats" with Ivan telling us he feels our pain and we are working flat out for success are just patronising statements. it is a business divorced from the supporters, no longer a club. Have you seen the salariy of the CEO and his bonus? He tels us the club only exists for success on the pitch-if that is the case why did he take his bonus? He has a pecuniary interest in maintaining the supporters compliance. it is a group who are simply laughing at us.They are merely stating " let them eat cakes" everytime they open their mouths. This cannot be allowed to continue. Supporters need to demand a seat on the board and to release to the true owners of the club the facts, as unpleasant as that might be .

  48. Green Hut

    Nov 05, 2012, 14:52 #27641

    When I hear Wenger say 'there's no money available to spend', I'll start blaming Kroenke. Until that day I'll leave it to you, Red Member and Mandy Dodd.

  49. johnnyhawleyloovinggooner

    Nov 05, 2012, 14:48 #27640

    i think nothing will change untill one person has controll of all of the Arsenal shares.However the manager no longer holds my faith. i can accept bad luck,poor refs and bad management during games,picking players or contracts. the failure to learn from these events and make the same mistakes over and over again is very hard to understand

  50. The DR.

    Nov 05, 2012, 14:34 #27639

    The painfull decline in recent years in now absolutly clear, we are simply not in the the league of Man .U,Chelski or Man c,where we actually were once, only to to slip out by self making . Not holding to our best players , not buying the very top players.ALL BECAUSE we have a GREEDY money oriented unambicious BOARD! WE have become a shopping window team ,"here watch us, see Jack see OX, see Cazorla, we'll sell any of them for the right price!" their share of the profits seems to be the major goal not trophies not pride of being ARSENAL not inspiring the fight and battle spirit for winning. Us the supporters? they could'nt care less what we feel. We have now gone years back to seasons of mediocracy where we settle for small glories- advancing a stage in a cup competition, winnig a Derby game etc. How deeply deeply disapponting!and annoying!

  51. Shaun Krog

    Nov 05, 2012, 14:11 #27635

    Excellent article. Articulate and laudable in it's attempts at remaining unbiased and unwilling to revert to the masses vitriolic angst ridden reviews that permeate the web. Bravo sir. I look forward to your next article. As an aside. I have supported Arsenal for 22 years. Watch nearly every game in this time. This is the first season I have failed to watch a single game. Heretic, yes. But I refuse to pander to the narcissistic tendencies of my fallen idol. Arsene Wenger.

  52. chris dee

    Nov 05, 2012, 14:01 #27633

    Have to disagree. The buck stops with the manager. I know the issues with the board but as I keep pointing out the board was not in charge of the team when we let a 4 goal lead slip at Newcastle,lose to Birmingham in a Cup final,lose 4-0 away at Milan etc etc and it was not the board who has had 7 years,yes 7 frigging years,to replace Jens Lehman,and has still not done it. These thing have sod all to do with money or paying 30 million for a player. They say a team reflects the manager,so why does the manner,attitude and application of the players stink? Why are we so placid,timid and lacking in physical bravery that we are known by everybody as serial surrender monkeys? To see our players in the tunnel behaving like a bunch of groupies towards Van Persie before a big match where for 90 minutes the opposition players are the 'enemy' was sickening and from that moment we all knew we were gonna lose. Ferguson would have ripped into his players big time if they had behaved like a bunch of tarts like ours did. Truly depressing day and one that we have endured to many times over the last7 years.

  53. Dan h

    Nov 05, 2012, 13:54 #27632

    Well it seems peoples arguments need to be backed up by figures o.k then.How about this one 15 pts from 30 our WORST start since 1994.The figure 70m if often quoted as a cash surplus who can seriously question the need not to of used a fair percentage of that to strengthen our side?The spin from MSS is wasted at our club he should be in politics.A political Lionel Messi world class BS of the highest order.The sad fact for me a once great manager who has become an economist instead of a football manager don't forget the fact who actually helped to interview MSS for his job OGL!Fantastic whatever you do in life you get to pick your own boss couldn't make it up no one to answer to .It's a set up where it's geared now to mediocrity for the size of our club a football version of the Stepford Wives starring DDT,MSS,OGL lets keep pretending all is o.k?

  54. Ron

    Nov 05, 2012, 13:36 #27630

    A sound read. The players have to decide where they are 'between the polarites' too! Sadly, most of them appear to have accepted that games v top teams are unwinnable and a modicum of effort v smaller Clubs will suffice. Wenger seems content with their choices as he has seemingly elected the same approach.To watch a team that lacks even the professional pride to fight and give it a go even though theyre expecting the likelihood of a beating is just so pathetic though! Being 'indifferent' is indeed the way to cope. I was actualy relieved that another heavy mauling was avoided at OT. Its the mindset of say, a West Bromwich fan. No disrespect intended to WBA or their supporters, however such fans of such Clubs have long lived with nil expectation of the top prizes. The difference is that those same fans of such Clubs watch their team fight and do their utmost each game out of pride for their shirt. Arsenal players cant/wont even offer that. What would the 1971 Double team make of it? I can hazard a good guess. For such a Club as ours this is nothing short of indefensible. If Wenger cant motivate well enough to at least instill pride and fight, he should go. Today! Trophies arent the be all and end all in themselves. Its the competing thats the thing. Trophies are the bonus that come by sometimes, but never without effort and commitment.

  55. Marco G

    Nov 05, 2012, 13:34 #27629

    Very good article. We are being sold down the river. Fear more pain this month, particularly as we always have a bad November. The sad decline of our club and expectations cannot be under estimated.

  56. Andy M

    Nov 05, 2012, 13:26 #27628

    I am getting sick of constantly now having to read "Arteta/whoever's turn it is this week demands response to weekend loss" type postings on the official website. We should be having more ""Arteta/whoever's turn it is this week view surprise loss as a temporary blip." Why did Santos play? We could have gone Sagna, Per, Kos and TV at left back. Anyone else thinking that with the rumours stating Pep Guardiola is ready to work again, that a perfect project awaits him in N5? But no, instead of acting now and getting him, we'll no doubt wait until Wenger totally destroys us and then get Sam Allardyce in.

  57. Stu H

    Nov 05, 2012, 13:16 #27626

    Like you I feel everytime we face a big team now we will lose. The squad we have is above avaerage at best; we have players in the squad that should not be there. Even worse we are paying average players wages well above their merit. The board and manager keep thinking we as fans will continue to pay out a premium price to watch football of a decreasing quality. They are in for a shock as fans will start to not renew their season tickets and merchandise sales will fall. What sponsor will then payout the money per season that the board want. It is a simple equation a successful team will get and demand sponsorship at 20 -25 million or higher per season. A club not winning trophies and finishing below the champions league will get a sponsorship lower than this. The board and manager need to wake up and realise you have to speculate to accummulate. I hope that they realise this soon. Or we will see our great club disappear into mid table and stay there

  58. Fozzy's mate

    Nov 05, 2012, 13:15 #27625

    TFG - don't let your mate Simon Rose read this interesting piece. It criticises his hero OGL and does not propose a view of world domination, telling the masses to keep the faith. Simon feels we should put things in perspective and forget the ever diminishing playing resources yet increasing cash reserves.

  59. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Nov 05, 2012, 13:08 #27624

    So Gazidis asks for patience? Patience! I can't think of any other club in the WORLD where such a trophyless stretch would not have claimed the job of at least the manager a hell of a lot earlier than 7 years (and counting). We obviously are being taken for mugs - and who can blame the manager and board for doing so, since we simply accept this utter incompetence without murmur.

  60. Idiotic

    Nov 05, 2012, 12:38 #27622

    Ooooh the minute I saw you were a mate of Simon Rose I expected this sort of AKB hogwash. Right. So it's ALL Kroenke's fault right? Kroenke spent £13 mil on Giroud, £12m on Gervinho, £7 m on Santos? It was Kroenke who has let the team defend like morons for years? It was Kroenke who lost a cup final to Brum eh? It was Kroenke who said '4th is a trophy' eh? It was Kroenke who made all those shocking team selections and pre-planned subs eh? It is down to Kroenke that Arsenal with a £143 mil wage bill (only 19m less than ManU) are outclassed by Norwich and Scahlke hmm? Pathetic. On the FOOTBALL PITCH Arsenal's incompetence is down to one man and one man only. The buck stops with the MANAGER. If you walk into a McDonalds in Wandsworth tomorrow and the place is a complete pig-sty would you blame the shift manager who let it get that way? Or would you blame the Maccy D CEO who is somewhere in Colorado? Idiotic Wengerite AKB 'logic' whereby anything is done to absolve the moron killing this club of blame. WENGER OUT.

  61. WestUpperRed

    Nov 05, 2012, 12:36 #27621

    Strangely i find it easier to be indifferent while watching a game than i do in the pre-post match period. Would love to sit here and be able to take a wider view but actually am near to bursting at the seams with frustration. Its unforgivable what is happening to the club

  62. Tony Evans

    Nov 05, 2012, 12:32 #27620

    Good, thoughful article which sums up my feelings apart from laying more of the blame at Wenger's door. It is now about far more than money and how much of it is at Wenger's disposal. I have no idea of the amounts of cash made available to Wenger but what I do know is how much he wastes it. Add to that his bizarre team formations and his insistance on playing players in positions they are not suited to at all and you have a recipe for the disasters we have all witnessed time and time again. Yes there are the odd highspots (Reading being one of them) but more and more of us are not fooled by them anymore and know Arsenal are in a downward spiral under Wenger. As you say indifference is one way to steel yourself against disappointment and the other is to lower your expectations. I do both and am much happier for it.

  63. Jeff

    Nov 05, 2012, 12:32 #27619

    Brilliant article, beautifully written and spot on. I find myself, having given up my season ticket of thirty years" laughing at how predictable it all is. In fact, so predictable is it, that I feel arsene and his team are becoming a caricature of themselves. The problem is there are no "Football Men" on the board and wenger is just complicit in their model, so that he can carry on in his vanity project. Enough of Arsene FC, I want Arsenal FC back.

  64. Red Member

    Nov 05, 2012, 12:31 #27618

    probably the best article on here for some time. I worked out about a year ago that Kroenke was the main problem. Ok Wenger has his faults but until he fails to deliver a top 4 finish it is hard to criticise too much considering the budget he operates on. you hint at Usmanov being the answer and in the modern football world he probably is. The policy pursued by Kroenke clearly isn't working apart from making him profits. That is the case for most of his sports franchises and the future for Arsenal is frightening if he is left in charge.

  65. Thulani Dlamini

    Nov 05, 2012, 12:26 #27616

    I wrote to arsenal at the beginning of the season on matters relating to player contracts and the team's ability to not tie key players to longer term contracts. The response I got was that "The Club had every confidence in the current Manager and squad of players; and what they are capable of achieving". we see transfer business mediocrity every summer which translates to mediocre results on the field, and my question is what is everyone at arsenalfc seeing that we fans are obviously missing? we employ the same tactics in the transfer market in buying average players and selling proven best players & expect genious results. Even the tactics employed every game are questionable. After saturday's game, Arsene Wenger said he did not take out Wilshere because he had no offensive options on the bench...pure mental I say, where does he expect offensive to come from when he doesnt buy them? Whose fault is it that the squad is thin on offensive depth? Look at Song's assists last season and make your conclusions. Below is an email I sent to arsenal voicing my concerns about transfer activities and the flimpsy response i got. WE WANT OUR ARSENAL BACK!!!!

    Dear Arsenal Football Club, Not sure whether this will reach the intended recipients, but I have two questions: WHY ARE PLAYERS NOT TIED DOWN TO LONG-TERM CONTRACTS AT ARSENAL FC? Alex Song just signed a 5 year contract at Barcelona, Robin signed a 4 year contract at Manchester United FC, Nasri and Fabregas are also on long term contracts at their respective clubs. This would enable the team to have a better stand when the star players get attracted to other teams and also make Arsenal FC have some bargaining power. I mean, Vincent Kompany from Manchester City just signed a 6 year contract at his club, why isn’t Arsenal FC doing the same for its key players? WHY ARE PLAYERS’ CONTRACTS NOT NEGOTIATED WHEN THERE IS AT LEAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS LEFT ON THEIR CONTRACTS? Surely the team must have left a bitter lesson by now from losing key players who are left with a year to run on their contracts. Kind Regards, Thulani Dlamini

    Dear Thulani Diamini Thank you for your email. The Club of course understands its performances and dealings can provoke strong emotions amongst supporters. It is the policy of the Club not to comment on the performances of any single player, contract details or on transfer speculation, but we do understand and appreciate your comments and feedback. The Club have every confidence in the current Manager and squad of players; and what they are capable of achieving. The morale at the Club is very high, despite what you may read in the press and we look forward to a successful season. Regards Hazel Wright (Mrs), Correspondence Team, Arsenal Contact Centre

  66. Shu

    Nov 05, 2012, 12:25 #27615

    So why are you not behind Usmanov ? All the best teams have money thrown at them. Do you really think a new sponsorship deal or naming rights will make any difference , no way. The world has moved on , Chelsea , Man City , Man Utd , Barca , Real , even Bayern are prepared to spend to get success. 7 years no trophies , Financial Fair play well how about that for supporters , who pay more per ticket than anyone else in a ground that takes more money per game than any in the world.

  67. Mike Stefan

    Nov 05, 2012, 12:00 #27613

    Excellent, well thought out piece. I wish more article on the Gooner would be like this.

  68. Highbury Boy

    Nov 05, 2012, 11:54 #27611

    I get your point but it's impossible for life-long fans like me to do indifference. Now for the players that unfortunately seems pretty easy. On Saturday it was concerning to see that the only outfield players who seemed up for it were Wilshere and Sagna , the 2 returning after long-term injuries. The others who have played 10 League games,CL games and pre-season games already look as though they've had enough and are going through the motions. They don't look like they believe; in each other ,the Manager or whatever. There's no fight in them. They looked a beaten side from the kick-off.