Added Spirit

Online Ed: Improved display at Goodison Park



Added Spirit

I think we’ll all be relieved when Movember is over...


In talking about what to expect from last night’s fixture with friends, I ventured that these days, you never know which Arsenal will turn up. Such is the team’s inconsistency. Kieran Gibbs was dropped because, one imagines, Arsene Wenger did not wish to choose between Koscielny and Mertesacker – a choice he would have had to make if his captain was to start at centre-back. Conveniently. Koscielny’s injury will spare him that dilemma for a while now.

The number 6’s early removal was not so early he left the field before Arsenal had taken the lead. Theo Walcott took the ball from his flank across the pitch and combined well with Aaron Ramsey to score an excellent goal before 60 seconds had been played. A dream start. The choice of Ramsey, a right footed midfield player, as a left-sided attacker was certainly an eye-opener. However, you can’t argue with the goal it produced and Ramsey had a decent enough match in my view, given his technical limitations. He switched with Walcott in the second half, though Theo was largely peripheral after his goal.

Critically, Arsenal played with spirit and commitment, qualities that make fans more forgiving of errors – and there were a good number last night, often when possession was given away carelessly, as occurred with Everton’s equalizer. Sagna was to blame, initially giving Arteta a hospital ball and then when he had the chance to make amends, playing it across his own penalty area to Fellaini. This passing in the team’s own half needs a look at, because errors here can be very costly. Sometimes, playing it down the flank instead of into the middle needs to be used as an option, especially if Theo Walcott is the choice. Ok, he may not control the thing, but at least the danger is minimal.

Everton away is a tough fixture that Arsenal have achieved a good number of decent results from over the years. In isolation, it was a satisfactory point. Given the merits of David Moyes’ team and the one Arsenal faced at the weekend at Villa Park, you can see why a point was a disappointment on Saturday. And the performance coloured that to an extent. Last night’s was better. If Arsenal had put in the same type of display we saw at Villa, Everton would have secured three points.

Was Jack Wilshere the difference? Driving the team on? Theo Walcott the missing ingredient? Maybe it’s a combination of both. Giroud battled hard, but was unfortunate in front of goal. The only really definite conclusions you can take from this game is the knowledge that Arsenal can play with motivation and commitment some of the time, and that the style of play will always allow the opposition chances unless the team is right at the top of its game, which we know is only going to happen once in a while. So the sloppiness has to be addressed and the players need to understand that the attitude shown in the matches away at West Ham and Everton is what is required, not what we witnessed at Norwich and Villa.

These days, we are looking at fourth place rather than being interested in the title race. In the build-up to this game Arsène Wenger trumpeted last season’s third place finish as a fantastic triumph, on a par with the Invincibles season. I have to admit to having little interest in the fortunes of the two Manchester clubs and Chelsea these days. Times have changed, eh? Such is the nature of decline.

There will be a new issue of The Gooner on sale v Swansea on Saturday. The current issue can still be bought online here. There is also an e-version of the issue available to read on your ipad/tablet/iphone/android. The app is free and you can download the first few pages of each issue as a taster before deciding whether or not to purchase the whole thing.


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232
comments

  1. Avenell Road

    Jan 12, 2015, 10:12 #64819

    Blew away the Orcs like they weren't even there. Beautiful. They are nothing unless they are in their lunatic asylum singing Delilah.

  2. HowardL

    Jan 12, 2015, 10:05 #64818

    Crude, nasty and unprofessional. can't claim that was a 50:50 challenge. Worth a posthumous 3 match ban but it's Arsenal so we know it won't happen.

  3. Chris

    Jan 12, 2015, 9:49 #64817

    We saw what Stoke are about yesterday, right down to the injury to Debuchy that wouldn't have happened but for Arnautovic's idiotic push on a man with his feet off the ground...

  4. Stoke are the Dustmen of the Premiership

    Jan 12, 2015, 1:00 #64815

    What was the score?

  5. Unchives

    Jan 11, 2015, 16:59 #64805

    Battered beaten & Torn, Enough said!

  6. BigGoonerDave

    Jan 10, 2015, 16:48 #64790

    KJ,can I remind you that you never had the pleasure of watching the invincibles at your cesspit of a ground,your lot were mid table in the old first division.Perhaps if you had seen The Arsenal in the flesh you woul,nt show your ignorance and I don't suppose you,ll be in North London tomorrow!!!!!!

  7. Stoke the spuds of the North

    Jan 10, 2015, 16:27 #64789

    Stoke have lost their last 12 games at Arsenal and haven't beaten Arsenal since 1981.

  8. stokelin

    Jan 10, 2015, 14:48 #64788

    I have read all the comments on this page. I do believe that its time for most supporters to grow up. Has nobody ever heard the saying yesterday is history tomorrow is a mystery today is a gift thats why they called it the present. So try and use all your energy in supporting your own team instead of slagging other teams and their supporters. COME ON STOKE.

  9. jeff wright

    Jan 10, 2015, 10:52 #64787

    pure Stoke,I have never even considered the thought that Shawcross would join Arsenal .It would not surprise if he did though then you would be slagging him off.The article is a contrived attempt to stir up controversy and your own and others reactions show that this ploy worked. .However, pure if I have learned one thing in my time here on planet Earth then it is that footballers loyalty is a transient thing and in this game nothing can ever really be discounted with events overtaking what is currently perceived to be a reality . Everything in football are like the sands of the Kalahari desert ,ever changing.It's best not to get too worked up about it all.

  10. Connor

    Jan 09, 2015, 22:38 #64785

    Are you capable of going more than two sentences without asking an incredibly mundane rhetorical question?

  11. Pure STOKE

    Jan 09, 2015, 22:02 #64783

    Jeff wright not the planet where deluded gooners see what they want to see in Arsenes' world, writing deluded articles. Ryan Shawcross will move on to a bigger club sometime in the future but it won't be Arsenal

  12. Jason B

    Jan 09, 2015, 21:41 #64782

    Yes, I think we should sign him. Exactly what we need at the back.

  13. jeff wright

    Jan 09, 2015, 21:16 #64780

    Pure STOKE,here on planet Earth the score was 3-2 - what planet are you living on > ?

  14. radfordkennedy

    Jan 09, 2015, 20:33 #64779

    SkG...what snouty was really good at which nobody does anymore was act as a minder for the younger or flair players no-one took liberties with Ray or Geordie.....Ron..insanely jealous you got to meet my hero 3 times lucky you...test match tickets,met Raddy,please don't tell me you've taken Claudia Winkleigh out to dinner as well!!

  15. Roy

    Jan 09, 2015, 19:42 #64778

    Shawcross's tackle is hardly worthy of this much debate as most fair minded people could see that he didn't mean it. What is without doubt is that the whole Stoke team at that time were, shall we say, a bit over zealous. It could have been one of a number of them who ended up inflicting such an injury on anyone. It probably acted as a bit of a watershed because some of the stuff Stoke got away with in their first 3 seasons or so in the top flight bordered on the absolutely scandalous. Anyone remember Shawcross's "tackle " on Adebayor when all our man did was try to let it run out for a throw in ? The ball was actually out of play before he made contact. Spiteful. I suppose a Stoke fan would say that the end justifies the means as they are now an established Premier League club who now play some good stuff. But then again so were a few others I could name and and nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see Stoke go the same way.

  16. Unchives

    Jan 09, 2015, 19:23 #64776

    We will beat Stoke, I will always stand up for my club and fight against these Neanderthal racist bastards to the end of the earth, and im sure my fellow gooners will join me despite our current in club differences, there is only one colour and that's RED! COYG!

  17. Lord Froth

    Jan 09, 2015, 17:41 #64774

    @ SToke fans - I'm a Gooner and don't believe that Shawcross meant to injure Ramsey, just that it was a reckless tackle in the heat of the moment. We could see on the TV that Shawcross was visibly upset and that it was one of the Stoke players (I forget who) that was the only one who was trying to help Ramsey until the medics arrived so kudos to him. Obviously I don't know the truth of Ramsey not accepting Shawcross's apology but I think Stoke fans booing Ramsey everytime he's played against them since has not really been on in my opinion. He's a young guy that could have had his career ended by someone elses recklessness and was probably slightly miffed by it. All the players have a duty of care to each other no matter how much we call it 'a man's game'. I can admit though, that some Arsenal fans don't like Stoke because the team has an inability to deal with them effectively when they play and used to get regularly undone by the long Delap throws and now are undone by some decent football. Anyway, I think Arsenal will win this weekend. Come on you Gunners.

  18. trvor

    Jan 09, 2015, 17:37 #64772

    when will winging arsenal supporters grow up ,football is a mans sport for men not wingers {wengers}

  19. Hiccup

    Jan 09, 2015, 17:17 #64770

    I remember a League Cup game against Stoke. Wrighty was trying to latch on to a ball that was played too heavy. As the ball ran a foot over the goalline and out of play near the corner flag at the clock end, he continued running on to it and just wellied it straight in to the stoke fans. Must have took someone's head off from about 5 yards. The Stokies were frothing at the mouth as Wrighty ran back in to position. One of the funniest things I have seen on a football pitch.

  20. Pure STOKE

    Jan 09, 2015, 17:16 #64769

    goonerbri it will be tough for STOKE on Sunday, but if we get anywhere near the same excitement as when Bojan but us 4 - 0 up at the Brit it should be a good game. Its a pity there aren't more sensible fellows on this site like Seven Kings Gooner and Ron

  21. GoonerBri

    Jan 09, 2015, 17:06 #64767

    I had to check that I wasn't on the Stoke Sh!tty FC website with all the comments posted by their fans. The only reason shawcross would appear in our players' dressing room is to clean their boots. I hope we score 6 on sunday to shut their fans up.

  22. AugustusCaesar

    Jan 09, 2015, 16:43 #64766

    There are some decent points in this article and it's well written but it IS a bit patronising. I winced at: "Would appearing alongside our more urbane types help to perform a makeover on Shawcross, that would help to transform him from a Neanderthal into a talented expressive human being?" Now come on. Unless this author has a very dry sense of humour that I'm not picking up on that's just cringeworthy. Personally I think he's a decent defender but we should be aiming a tad higher. Didn't Shawcross win an England cap and look completely out of depth and not get considered again? He's decent but let's not get carried away. I went to the Stoke game a few weeks and I think the booing of Shawcross/Ramsey was less pronounced than normal. Clearly there's animosity between the two sets of fans over the incident but it will die down over time.

  23. jeff wright.

    Jan 09, 2015, 15:43 #64758

    MG, no Chumps League football next season is the only thing that I can see that might get Wenger to go. As I have little interest in that gerrymandered farce I would take that.

  24. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 09, 2015, 14:40 #64750

    jw, he must take his water bottle to bed, I agree on the results but you know what TOF's like he'll come up smelling of roses regardless, he's not Teflon wenger for nothing.

  25. Rich B

    Jan 09, 2015, 14:23 #64746

    'Would he appear to be far more humane if he were in an Arsenal kit'. That embarrassing, cringe worthy comment sums up this whole Shawcross/Ramsey farce in my opinion. Shawcross is a footballer, not Vlad the Impaler. He made one miss-timed, clumsy, brutal challenge on Ramsey that had horrible repercussions for young Aaron. It wasn't malicious or intended. It wasn't an out of control two footed lunge (like Wellbeck on Fabregas back in October). Suggesting otherwise is an indication that you don't understand the game of football, and maybe there are more of these people than we'd like to admit at the Emirates, which could go a long way towards explaining the poor atmosphere. Does anyone genuinely think he isn't better than Mertesacker or Chambers at centre half? Really & honestly? Those who do are perhaps the ones perpetuating this nonsense, and I believe Mr Wenger is leading the way!

  26. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 09, 2015, 13:08 #64736

    Ron : Not sure if Hudson played against us but I heard that when Terry Neill wanted to bring him back to Arsenal for a second time the board decided that TN's time was up. Seems that all Arsenal managers, if they stay long enough, lose their judgement.

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 09, 2015, 12:53 #64734

    I love you arsene make sweet love, he wouldn't be able to he hasn't it in him, he's past that too, but no doubt that would be someone else's fault also.

  28. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 09, 2015, 12:50 #64733

    Ron : Peter Storey, how I would love someone in our team with that cold detached view to their job on the pitch. I remember Pat Howard putting the studs on one of our younger lads in a game, PS walked over to him looked over his shoulder to check his shirt number and that was enough, Howard hid for the rest of the game and Peter never tackled him in anger once. I do remember when Alf Ramsey played him against the USSR - the Russians could not believe how hard this guy tackled, his greatest strength was his composure, no raging or threatening just the solid knowledge that what you give him you will get back with a healthy interest.

  29. PR

    Jan 09, 2015, 12:46 #64732

    What a vile article. Well done and thank you to Ron, JK, RK etc.

  30. Ron

    Jan 09, 2015, 12:46 #64731

    SKG - Tony Waddington was their boss back then. Maybe the only decent boss theyve ever had. He combined skill with steel wonderfully for them. Maybe Wenger should look him up if hes still alive and ask how it was done? They were a team of veterans with Eastham and Dobing etc really but played some lovely football while such as Pejic and Denis Smith made sure nobody bullied them. I recall one filthy foul by Pejic on Raddie i think it was at Villa Park. Liked Pejic though. Hudson joined them later when Chelsea got fed up of his antics didnt he. Cant recall him playing v us? Or did he?

  31. Ron

    Jan 09, 2015, 12:29 #64728

    SKG - They didnt 'believe' mate. They couldnt believe they were 2-0 up. Cold eyes sorted the f----s didnt he. Banks - no chance! It was bloody good being a Gunner in them days wasnt it! Big Raddie, yes. Still love him. Met him 3 times.

  32. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 09, 2015, 12:10 #64726

    Hi Ron : Yes that Stoke team was a good side, played a bit too, with Greenhoff playing that deep role and Ritchie up front was a real handful. Tanked us 5 - 0 in that double year and really thought it was their year - we stunk the place out in the first semi game and here is crux of all Stoke fans problems, they just could not hang on to that 2 - 0 lead. Frank's header, a handball and 44 years later the disbelief still remains. The 1-0 win on the penultimate game of the 71 season was also torture - remember John Radford clearing off the line with a few minutes left - brilliant memories.

  33. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 09, 2015, 12:08 #64725

    Troy, the trendy name tells you all you need to know. You couldn't make it up.

  34. Pete

    Jan 09, 2015, 11:07 #64722

    I for one loved going to Stoke in the 80's.I would plough through their home end like a knife through butter.I have a seat right next to them on Sunday.Cant wait.

  35. Ron

    Jan 09, 2015, 11:06 #64721

    SKG - Very true. Those semis grate badly with them. I wouldnt mind but i very much doubt they would have won either of the Cup Finals had they have prevailed. The semis were the closest Stoke have ever been to some real glory in a meaningful tournament so its why the loss of a couple of lost semis eats away at them so much i suppose. Its a bit sad though all the same isnt it. They were a very good side then though. Conroy, Banks (though he was past his very best by then) Eastham Greenhoff and Pejic and Co. It was always a vile place to go. Charlie George used to wind the Stokies up terribly with his gestures and V signs to that old Boothen End, the fooking hole! Many has been the time that mates and i have had to charge back to the railways station there chased by Stokies and Police dogs not far behind! Great days though! Its one of the few grounds now that you still see Police dogs routinely.I last went when they beat us in the FAC when Campbell came back. Another dreadful day ha! Are there any others there. Wenger keeps sending teams of feint hearts there and Stoke just play on it. The Club desperately needs 2 or 3 players who relish a war and Stoke would just lie down and die.The likes of Shawcross aren't hard at all.There are no hard players in that Premier League. He just knows hes facing twinkle toed players who cant hack a battle and reaps his dubious rewards.Id love to roll back 35 years and play against him, truly would mate. Be good to see him scream in agony a few times.Nothing better than a bully being 'done' in football in my book.

  36. jeff wright

    Jan 09, 2015, 11:05 #64720

    Arsene will be doing his Comical Ali act shortly for the media. The question is will anyone dare ask him any awkward ones>? I'm putting on my deerstalker hat here and doing a Westie , John McCririck tick-tack man act , for the odds on Sundays game :These are 4/9 Arsenal to win ,17/5 a draw and a whopping 6-1 for Stoke to win. Seeing as it was 3-2 to Stoke at their gaff, in a game that they largely dominated and we now have home advantage, I will go for a home win .I won't be putting any money on it though at those odds. I think that the odds are a bit longer than 4/9 for a home win. But that still looks the most likely outcome. If Wenger however loses the game or only scrapes a draw then he should immediately resign and let Steve Bould take over until someone else can be found. Actually Wenger is now in the Prem facing a situation where every game is a cup final for him .Just as well then that he is good at dealing with stress!&*!* You couldn't make it up.

  37. Unchives

    Jan 09, 2015, 10:57 #64719

    @ Ron, spot on, I forgot about the other incidents you mentioned. Stoke are a vile club with vile fans. The hatred is beyond football. Roy Keane mentioned in the documentary "Best of Enemies" with Vieira, he along with the rest of the Manure cheats, hated Arsenal, including it would seem, Mike the Manc Riley.

  38. AMG

    Jan 09, 2015, 10:16 #64718

    Regardless of the result on Sunday, you've still got to return to Stoke, so I feel for you guys.

  39. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 09, 2015, 10:07 #64717

    Stoke for Ever : Sorry pal but I have several friends in Stoke - my age, who tell me every time it is the semi finals that gnaw away at your soul - Ramsey is just an excuse to keep the hatred going. I remember being in your home end, at the Victoria, for a league cup game 95-96? The bile was the worse I had experienced in any ground and I have visited most - I think Mike Sheron got your opener and for the most of the game you targeted Ian Wright, you also chanted that Sheron was better than Wright and I think Ian had 2 touches that game, one when we kicked off after you took the lead and one when he slammed in the equalizer to give us a very fortunate draw. When Arsenal levelled you lot went mental, my mates told me not to utter a word and I kept very quite, I did remind them that Wrighty only needed one chance throughout the whole game and I was proved right. Point I am making is this was long before Aaron Ramsey and was really a Midlands South divide and a glamour club like Arsenal not getting the comeuppance we deserved, coupled with those bloody semi's defeats! PS we won the replay.

  40. Ron

    Jan 09, 2015, 9:57 #64716

    ElyStokie - dont be so stupid. Slight touch by Bendtner on Shawcross arm only had no effect on his momentum. Shawcross also broke Francis Jeffers ankle 2 years earlier and in the first Stoke game v Arsenal when you were promoted he cleaned out Adebayor with a filthy tackle while Adebayor wasnt even on the field of play. Dont come on here with yr cheap distorted revisionary views. A good many of us have been at nigh on every game at that disgusting hole of a 'Stadium' (its more a giant pig pen really) of yours.

  41. JAMIE

    Jan 09, 2015, 9:55 #64715

    There's millions of teams who play like Stoke but there's only one Arsenal.Yep Suuree.

  42. ElyStokie

    Jan 09, 2015, 8:35 #64714

    It absolutely baffles me how seemingly every single Arsenal fan conveniently ignores the fact that Bendtner caused Ryan to be late in the challenge by tugging him back. It's blindingly obvious in every single video I've seen of the challenge. Has the Wenger virus of 'I did not see eet' infected every last one of them?

  43. Charlie George Orwell

    Jan 09, 2015, 8:02 #64713

    Stoke fans at the match on Sunday: Can you please send out big love to Arsene while he stands up so Steve Bould can zip up his coat. Cheers.

  44. Tom

    Jan 09, 2015, 6:20 #64712

    To all the Gooners saying Shawcross isnt good enough.That idiot Wenger thought Stephanovs Cygan Sendeross Djourou Squillaci and Silvestre were good enough.Think about it

  45. ed enough....

    Jan 09, 2015, 6:06 #64711

    Who do the gooner continue to let this pointless blog run???? Shocking article. Feel free to join the rest of us on planet Earth soon Simon...

  46. Stoke are the Dustmen of the Premiership

    Jan 09, 2015, 0:37 #64710

    The amount of time you Stokies spend trolling on other sides websites is testament to the fact there's obviously nothing to do in Stoke. Not even paid employment. Anyway, some facts: League Titles: Arsenal 13 Stoke 0 FA Cups: Arsenal 11 Stoke 0 League Cups: Arsenal 2 Stoke 1 League & Cup Doubles: Arsenal 3 Stoke 0 Cup Doubles: Arsenal 1 Stoke 0 Unbeaten Seasons: Arsenal 1 Stoke 0 European Finals: Arsenal 6 Stoke 0 European Trophies: Arsenal 2 Stoke 0 Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Enjoy your few seasons left before you are relegated back to the Football League where you belong

  47. Skittle

    Jan 09, 2015, 0:14 #64709

    This whole debate is pointless. Yes it was a bad challenge but there was no intent there to hurt Ramsey. And to say he did not feel ad after is ridiculous, he walked off the pitch crying and distraught. worse acts in football happen, but the media and deluded fans do not acknowledge these. It was a complete accident and stoke fans and players do and did not wish any player to get hurt in that manner. I do admit stoke play a rough style but that suits there player (they play to there strengths) which is a clever move if you ask me. And when you come up against teams like arsenal it is a dream, as they cannot handle a physical game! So if it works why not play a physical game to get the win. If you say they go out to hurt the players you are deluded because they don't, they just want to panic arsenal players (it is a basic Sunday league tactic). However stoke have now started to evolve and play football the way you like to see it! they have scored some nice goals with passing moves just like arsenal have over the years! And no shawcross would not join arsenal. And i Don't think arsenal would bid for him. Could arsenal use a player like him? of course he's a strong nonsense old fashioned defender that gets the job done, which i personally feel is missing from the game. I miss the days of watching good old strong footballers play, sorry I mean man play not these boys who fall over when i fly lands on them. This is why i like watching stoke and other teams that play this style, this is why i love non league football and this is why a like a lower league of football cause man play it and good old fashioned tackles go in. At the end of it all no one cares what happened on the pitch as that was in the game the players just shake hands and go for a pint! This is why I fell in love with football the never die attitude playing with passion and not for money. A mixture of both arsenal and stoke styles would create the perfect football style. Both sets of fans need to get over this petty argument and just enjoy the game we all love, we should talk about the football and stop bitching about each other like little school girls!

  48. Sam

    Jan 08, 2015, 23:57 #64708

    Funny how Arsenal are even considering this. If it wasn't for that unlucky incident with Ramsy's foot (which lacks vitamin) he would be a perfect signing fore the arse, the fact idk in the early 20's when they had Keon and Bould they did not complain about a bit of rough and tumble but now they have found a team they can't cope with they resort to some out dated, stereotypical, rubbish. Shawcross would never dream of going to arsenal and it is clear why given the absolute battering Stoke gave them at the Brit. BTW, you wrote about 23 questions in your article without actually saying a thing. Funny how you still think about that takle unlike many other teams who simply get over them, says a lot about the club.

  49. Pure STOKE

    Jan 08, 2015, 23:40 #64707

    ? do Gooners fans sing "ARSE GRAVY"

  50. Alan smith

    Jan 08, 2015, 23:34 #64706

    think the arsenal fans need to look at a still moments before the shawcross tackle

  51. Hiccup

    Jan 08, 2015, 23:33 #64705

    Hi bard. Wes brown has 23 caps whereas Shawcross, at 27 years old, only has the 1. And England's hardly blessed with quality in that position is it? Think that says it all. It's a no-brainer for me. Let's wait til the summer though before we entice Wes with CL football and a freebie to boot. I wonder if any of the Stokies could tell us if Shawcross is a smoker or not? We could do with a Lambert & Butler guy at the back, and ideally with 20 a day experience.

  52. ?

    Jan 08, 2015, 23:29 #64704

    Do Stoke fans sing 'Ork army'

  53. whitesleeves

    Jan 08, 2015, 23:27 #64703

    Love reading this site, hate this article and Ryan Shawcross

  54. will smith

    Jan 08, 2015, 23:23 #64702

    Utter rubbish

  55. Exeter Gunner

    Jan 08, 2015, 23:16 #64701

    Did Shawcross intend to break Ramsey's leg? No. Did he go into that tackle with far more force than was required if the intent was to win the ball? Yes. Did he do that because wanted Ramsey to 'know he was there'? Yes. Did Pulis immediately try to portray Shawcross as the victim (rather than the guy with his leg hanging off) after the match by talking about how upset he was and how his mum had taken him home? Yes. That's what stuck in the craw at the time and what the Stoke fans need to recognise. Now that's cleared up, as Simon Rose is responding to comments, I'd like to ask again how he can possibly make the assertion that playing in a Wenger defence would make a defender more 'rounded and talented' given the evidence to the contrary paraded in front of him in every match?

  56. Bard

    Jan 08, 2015, 23:06 #64700

    Cant really see the point of this article. There isn't a cat in hells chance of us signing him for a whole number of reasons. Next up, why don't we sign Messi or Ronaldo. Good to know the Orcs can write !! Great post Hiccup, Wes Brown now there's a player and cheap. What's not to like about that. Yes Im afraid the AKBs have taken flight but only temporarily. A couple of decent wins and they will be back.

  57. Whatsashig

    Jan 08, 2015, 23:03 #64699

    Sorry a little of topic but Mr maggo, could i ask where you got you ants from, most interested, but only if the same service they provide exists if you don't have to cover yourself in honey. Would it be possible they could be free next home game to carry me up sir stans way from true than at around 2:45, please reply quickly otherwise I'll get a taxi, would be a joyous experience mind. Let em know theirs some fresh leafs in it for um

  58. ?

    Jan 08, 2015, 22:57 #64698

    Is a wob the same as an ork?

  59. tinno

    Jan 08, 2015, 22:56 #64697

    Arsenal fans want to look in a mirror seem to remember a Bolton player having a far worse tackle on him from a player from arsenal if shawcross is so bad why his he the top defender in the premier league this season and his disapline record is excellent as he players every game

  60. jase

    Jan 08, 2015, 22:21 #64696

    The fact that ryan has been mentioned by arsenal and transfer in the same sentence says only 1 thing to me and that is you can see what actual qualities he actually has but the bitterness you hold towards ryan/stoke refuses to let you be man enough to speak out and be honest by saying you need/want ryan in your club/team,the ramsey incident is gone, drop it, its like punishing a kid years down the line for something he did in primary school now he is in high school...grow up move on...jase scfc

  61. David

    Jan 08, 2015, 22:16 #64695

    @Delilah - in answer to your question: 'What's an Akb?' - Goes by the name of Badarse, but no longer contributes to this site.

  62. Hiccup

    Jan 08, 2015, 22:07 #64694

    Tomorrow's article 'Could Arsenal sign Wes Brown' is more realistic. Ageing, injury ridden, and more importantly out of contract which is right up our street. I wonder if the site will be full of hi-rate Mackems?

  63. Mark Baggo

    Jan 08, 2015, 22:07 #64693

    Shawcross is by far the best Central defender in the country a natural replacement for JT in the England squad . As for the Ramsey incident the leg had already snapped before any contact was made Shawcross actually tried to pull out of the challenge fact. The red card should of been retrospectively resinded. On being good enough to play for arsenal ha well Stoke beat them with ease a few weeks ago and played them off the park for the best part of the game . We know you love us arsenal so just deal with it .

  64. Delilah

    Jan 08, 2015, 22:04 #64692

    What's an Akb?

  65. jeff wright

    Jan 08, 2015, 21:58 #64691

    Er no, lee KFC, according to your 'logic WHU would also be a top 4 side, we also beat them, the top 4 are the teams that finished last season in that position,not ones that are in and out of the top 4 such as Fat Sam's or ones that may not finish in it at the end of the season . .The top 4 this season are the teams that play or played in this seasons Champions League , they are City,Liverpool,Chelsea,us. United were not top 4 last season so our defeat at home to them doesn't count in the top 4 table. However,Wenger has only won one game against them out of the last 15 played,he even lost to Moyes last season! This is another dismal record by Wenger and probably a record for Arsenal managers. I can't recall any other one losing or drawing so many games against them.For the record Wenger's results against the other top 4 this season ,we are still counted as being top 4 by the way on last seasons finish and our CL place,as the actress said to the bishop,you can't have it both ways, City 2-2 at home,Chelsea lost 2-0 away,Liverpool 2-2. City up next away in the so far no wins in 16 games against the previous season and current CL sides for Arsene .You couldn't make it up.

  66. Oslostokie

    Jan 08, 2015, 21:47 #64690

    You could do a lot worse than Shawcross. When you look at your central defenders, you are crying out for one of his type, similar to the Adams/Bould/Keown mould that was the main ingredient of your success in the golden years. A healthy blend of strong English defenders and continental flair. It is so obvious to many people this is the type of player you miss if you want to be successful again rather than conform to Wenger's ideology and ultimate failure. When Arsenal pitches up at Stoke, we expect them to cave in, but when Chelsea turns up with Terry/Cahill/Ivanovic, you know they will give as good as they get. Shawcross is a better player under Hughes than he was allowed to be under Pulis. He is no worse a footballer than any of your centre halves and far more resilient. Yes, the "tackle" turned out to be a bad one but it was never intended and everyone saw how upset he was when he left the pitch. It is not often you see players showing genuine remorse in the way that he did.

  67. Lee afc

    Jan 08, 2015, 21:37 #64689

    Jeff..... I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong but on 3rd December last year we beat Southampton 1-0 while they were top 4. But I suppose that doesn't count in your anti Arsenal book. Not having a good day with your stats eh Jeff.

  68. Ron

    Jan 08, 2015, 21:28 #64688

    Stoke for ever - Youreb very sure of yourself my friend. Let me say firstly that i dont dislike Stoke as you ll see from my earlier post. I was at the semis all those years ago too. Stoke never have since and never do now really get on to my radar to be honest, never mind dislike them. Its a Club thats no threat to anybody, as long as you discount your South Car park which threatens to devour visitors cars into its mix of mud, sand and stone chippings and underlying brick ends? Have you got round to fixing it yet?You talk in terms of 'hate'. Its a word that finds its way into football parlance sadly and for those who get that way about a player or a Club, i actually pity. Having said all of this, the point i will make and be sure of myself is that you ll never know what was the intent behind Shawcross s tackle but your willingness to swallow the quotes and comments that came after that game, while seemingly trying to absolve your player is a little naive. If you had played the game to any level ( i suspect that youve not) above pub or local club football you would know hoe easy it is to disguise malicious intent and 'do' another player. Many players have done it for years and never taken red. It happens often. Dont be so silly into thinking you know what Shawcross intended. You dont and never will.

  69. Albert Tatlock

    Jan 08, 2015, 21:10 #64687

    Shawcross would improve any team in the premiership

  70. Unchives

    Jan 08, 2015, 20:40 #64686

    @ Stoke For Ever, Shawcross will disappear, like Martin... not a bad bone in his body... Taylor,(Birmingham City) and Dan..break your legs at the halfway line...Smith.(Sunderland) They should jump in their white vans, vote UKIP and move to Rochester.Even Man Utd didn't want him and they are northern thugs!

  71. jjetplane

    Jan 08, 2015, 20:35 #64685

    Andy Clewlow believe me he is as important as Wenger and Stoke for ever boss post that and you are now an honourary WOB. Welcome to the dark/light side. One of my heroes is a Stoke man ....

  72. Stoke For Ever

    Jan 08, 2015, 20:24 #64684

    Seven Kings Gooner. Nothing can be further from the truth, while it hurt when we lost in those two semi finals a long time has passed since then. I am probably one of the few who can remember watching those two games and I very rarely think of them now. I can say with certainty that the only reason that we do not respect or even like your club is because of the incident when Ramsey broke his leg and the shear hatred that came out of Arsenal not just that afternoon but for weeks after. Everyone of you crucified Ryan from the manager, the player himself, all his other teammates to everyone of the fans and its still going on. You have a manager who should have diffused the incident. Its one thing to come out and say things in the heat of the moment but to keep on saying them when shown that there was no intent and that it was an accident is unforgivable and shows what sort of person your club employs as manager. Same with Ramsey who when this incident happened was a young man who should have put all this behind him and he should have but for that Manager you have whispering in his ear all the time. You wonder why we hate you so much, have you ever watched those videos where they interview your fans after the match, well for Stoke fans to watch and hear the bile coming out of the mouths of these people, to be insulted in every word they say is beyond the pale. Even with this article above the author insults calling Ryan an ugly duckling. He even comes out with even more bile saying that both Shawcross and the then manager did not show remorse for what had happened while knowing full well Ryan tried time and time again to get in touch with that Ramsey and so did the manager and no doubt Wenger in his wisdom was whispering in Ramsey ear not to even acknowledge the pair of them, knowing that he could use what had happened to spur his players on. He even insults him by saying that he could be a good player if he left Stoke. The fact is that Shawcross is the best defender in the premiership bar none as the statistics show and have done all season. He is the one defender that Wenger should pull out all stops to get. But Wenger would not afford the money, Ryan Shawcross has principles and one of his principles is not to speak to people who tried to ruin his career so he wont becoming an Arsenal player unless your club gets rid of Wenger. Its as simple as that.

  73. jeff wright

    Jan 08, 2015, 20:10 #64683

    Hey chicken brain, you make one ever time you post .A bit late on this as well but desperation aonyour part and all of that again wot! Not that my claiming Wenger had won a European trophy fooled anyone of course because everyone knows that he only has two LOSERS medals to add to his record breaking 9 YEARS WITHOUT A TROPHY. The worst record of any Arsenal manager and probably the worst record for this embarrassing feat of any manager in the top flight of football.At the moment he is grimly, with his ineptitude , setting a new record for not winning games against top 4 opponents ,it stands presently at 16 . But with City away next up in that run of games it could get worse .Good old Arsene.

  74. Lee afc

    Jan 08, 2015, 19:51 #64682

    Ooooooopppppssss. Jeff Right has made yet another howler....... Ha ha ha, idiot. 16.15 8th January....

  75. STATS

    Jan 08, 2015, 19:44 #64681

    Since Wengers been the Arsenal manager Stoke have lost every game they've played at Arsenal.Arsenal have scored at least 20 goals more than them every season and conceded less goals every season.Why would we want any of these bottlers players?

  76. Hiccup

    Jan 08, 2015, 19:39 #64680

    A long winded piece. There are only ever two questions that need to be asked, the rest is irrelevant. Firstly, is the player top, top quality? And secondly, is he better than what we already have? I've always wondered how this works. If a player is top, top quality, but not better than we already have, do we pass on him? And if a player is better than what we already have, but not top, top quality, do we also pass on him? Where Silvestre and Squillaci fitted in to all this pythagoras, god only knows!

  77. jjetplane

    Jan 08, 2015, 19:39 #64679

    Now this MR MAGOO bloke sounds alot like ........ Fave players of the season so far are Podolski, Jenkinson and .... Ryan Shawcross. I rest my gooner credentials ....

  78. John F

    Jan 08, 2015, 19:12 #64678

    Good post vestanpance. Weren't some stoke fans trying to organise a minutes protest on the exact minute that Ramsey broke his leg at last seasons fixture.We all have some moron fans.

  79. damien

    Jan 08, 2015, 19:04 #64677

    well jesus christ thats 5 minutes of my life i will never get back, thanks.. all this talk of Ryan breaking Aarons leg, and everyone seems to forget why he was fractionally late in that tackle. Bendtner pulled him back as he got past him and thats what slowed him down slightly... and for the record im a port vale supporter and hate all things stoke city, this however is unfair on Shawcross, it seems to get dragged up everytime you play eachother

  80. Unchives

    Jan 08, 2015, 19:01 #64676

    @ rugby fan - your blog name says it all, and judging by your spelling, your the Neanderthal. Dont they have spell-check computers in Stoke? @ Pure STOKE, You read the examples I have given on other players, its no coincidence. Stoke are now playing good football and are having success, so you don't need the assaults to be successful, that's just hate.

  81. Mr maggoo

    Jan 08, 2015, 18:54 #64675

    Missed the bloody bus again so " ive covered myself in honey and the ants are takin me home" and thats alls this stokie has too say about this article about something or other ... GOOAARN STOKE

  82. A neutral

    Jan 08, 2015, 18:44 #64674

    Take off your gooner flavoured glasses and watch the replay of the tackle over and over and over and you will see it as a complete and unfortunate accident, not malicious in any way, shape or form. Im a Villa fan and thats how the rest of the world sees it. Yes, Stoke were an overly aggressive team in their first 5 years in the prem but they arent any more and the entire footballing world (minus Arsenal) sides with Shawcross on the Ramsay incident. End of conversation.

  83. Pure STOKE

    Jan 08, 2015, 18:38 #64673

    Unchives your comment sums up why Stokies think you Gooners are delusional, tackles/some misplaced happen in football, it happens to every team at some point, (stoke have had bad tackles against them) you really need to let it go!

  84. Unchives

    Jan 08, 2015, 18:35 #64672

    @ bexhillpotter, you are right there, however another 5 minutes and Stoke fans would have been hitting the crapper! Where o Stoke finish every year compared to Arsenal?

  85. bexhillpotter

    Jan 08, 2015, 18:29 #64671

    Have you forgotten the fact that Stoke City totally outplayed Arsenal and their lumbering defence recently? The skilful Potters went through Arsenal like a knife through extremely soft butter. So there!

  86. Big Steve

    Jan 08, 2015, 18:29 #64670

    Arsenal appear more suited to ladies football. Tackling is part of the game and , as I remember, there were no complaints from the Arsenal fans when Tony Adams and Martin Keown we're dishing it out - the last time they had anything like a decent defence. C

  87. Unchives

    Jan 08, 2015, 18:22 #64669

    I wouldn't let Ryan Shawcross (Ramsey), Dan Smith (Diaby), Martin Taylor (Eduardo)anywhere near Arsenal Football Club. These guys challenges were absolutely reckless, without a thought for the players safety.The chants and songs from their so called fans, celebrating these horrific injuries is bad enough.These northern based players are coached like the Sunday Teams of the past....Let them know you are there Lads...hit them hard! We then wonder why we don't win world cups with these English Neanderthals roaming with their pub tattoos.Roy Keane wasn't far behind them and he made money through his book, admitting GBH...you couldn't make it up. As for the Stoke racist inbreds, nuke em!

  88. Hilarious

    Jan 08, 2015, 18:12 #64668

    The first of the many question you should have asked is "does shawcross want to sign for Arsenal"? For which the answer is no!!! This text, not even an article is both unimaginative but also compleatly wrong including the bit about the apology form Stoke which was clear and equely not accepted by the sophisticated Arsenal. The simple fact that Glenn Whelan was trying to help Aaron while the arsenal players just surrounded the ref just higlights the situation. It would be better that arsenal fans grow up a little an realise that what happened to 'poor ramsey' was simply an accident. Anyway Arsenal can dream to have Shawcross in their side but unfortunately for them their dream will never be a reality.

  89. th14afc

    Jan 08, 2015, 18:01 #64667

    Why are people surprised that Ramsey didn't answer Shawcross' phone calls....at that time Ramsey's career hung in the balance due to a stupid tackle yet people thought he should just accept RS apology....horror tackle, yeah he wouldn't have meant to break Ramsey's leg but i believe he went to go in extra rough due to the tag arsenal have of 'get at them with rough house tactics and you have a chance mentality' this was an accident waiting to happen....the media and stoke bang on about the record against us at the Britania...well we have a great home record against the orks so sunday shouldn't be a problem

  90. Unbelievable

    Jan 08, 2015, 17:55 #64666

    Does the writer of this article like asking questions? Does he have any opinions worth listening to? Did Ramsey not ignore Shawcrosse's apology? Pathetic article. The season after this Delap's leg was broken in a 'horror' tackle at Sunderland. Did this make the news? Did anyone else get hang drawn and quatered? Did Stoke and Pulis who you so despise come out using the media to push for the news to make everyone in the country know about it? No. No they did not. Did Delap get inter viewed by the Daily Mail ahead of the same fixture in the following two seasons to explain how the injury affected him? No. He got on with things. As did Stoke. Grow up. Seriously. This is yet another pathetic piece of drivel.

  91. jeff wright

    Jan 08, 2015, 17:32 #64665

    Troy,I don't agree with your hypothesis that it's the players and not the manager one.Anyway who signed these players then if it is true ? My view is that a better manager than our Inspector Clueless would get more out of them and moved a few on like Diaby , Flim Flam and Arteta ,rather than give them new contracts as Wenger did. Inept management from him that . I can't see Perez at RM wanting to replace the successful Ancelotti with a manager who can't beat a top 4 side in the Prem or in Europe either. These claims that top clubs are desperate to sign a 65 year old obviously past his sell by date Arsene are just more AKB deluded nonsense. You couldn't make it up.

  92. Alsace Lorraine

    Jan 08, 2015, 17:32 #64664

    Dear Stokies. It should be obvious to anyone that it was your former manager who instilled the doctrine of shoot first and ask questions later. The point is however, that Mr Shawcross went out there and did what he was told to do. Even if you exclude intent, there is such a thing as recklessness and both the then manager and the player were reckless as to the consequences. It can't really be any surprise to you that we still won't forgive young Shawcross. If George Graham had been the manager a) the incident would never have happened and b) even if it had, Shawcross would have faced on the field retaliation. Bullies have to be smashed hard (repeatedly) in the face, or they do it again. Our frustration, apart from anything else, is with our turnip of a manager who hasn't the brains to employ an enforcer and use him where necessary. I'm sure that Sunday's game will be played in the Corinthian Spirit, unless of course Mr Wenger is miraculously sent to bed with Flu and Steve Bould is in charge.

  93. I love you Arsene make sweet love to me and make babies

    Jan 08, 2015, 17:31 #64663

    Jeff Wright Wenger has won more trophies and done more for the club than Herbert Chapman. Whoever is against Wenger like you the exit is the other way. One thing I can't tolerate as an Arsenal fan is for other so claimed 'fans' to insult the managerial capability of the best and most successful manager Arsenal FC has ever seen. Wenger has transformed Arsenal into a mighty club, the biggest step someone has ever taken for this club. Arsène Wenger is Arsenal. Before Wenger Arsenal were a midtable club. FACT Don't like to admit so as a genuine Arsenal fan myself but looking at the table we had finished midtable. Wenger transformed Arsenal into a big club able to compete against Europe's elite. He is the greatest manager we ever had and you disrespect him? Name me one Arsenal manager that's won more trophies than Wenger has? Not to mention finals/runner ups. UCL/European cup qualification. Revenue in respective manager's period. We have NEVER had a manager as influential and good as Wenger. Never. Not even Chapman. Without Wenger we would've been relegated to division 3 by now. The club was going downhill until he arrived. Where did we finish the year before Wenger arrived? That's right, 12th. We were mid-table. I will always support Wenger. We wouldn't be a top club today if it wasn't for him. That's a fact. You can look at revenues, trophies, stadium, players, European pedigree... anything you want. We would not be a top club today if it wasn't for Wenger. That alone makes me want him to stay for as long as his health allows it. Wenger will prove you wrong, and we WILL finish in the top 4 again. He is still the best manager in the world. Once that happens Wenger haters must leave.

  94. dave

    Jan 08, 2015, 17:30 #64662

    Shawcross did apologise.

  95. jeff wright

    Jan 08, 2015, 17:14 #64661

    Good spot MG,this article is another disguised attempt to try and get everyone behind hard done by Arsene . No doubt dragging up the Shawcross snapping tackle ,he had an history before this of doing some dangerous tackles Shawcross during his time at Royal Antwerp - when on loan from Manchester United. Shawcross did one on Adebayor - when Barndoor was with us a sliding tackle on his ankle that forced Adebayor out for over a month. So the guy is was not the shrinking violet that the Stokies are trying to portray him as being when he did that dodgy tackle,that he got a red card for,on Ramsey. Shawcross seems to have cleaned his act up afterwards ,but then he had to do so .Tbf though Stoke are playing different now to under Pulis whether they get anything out of Sunday's game though is another matter, home advantage could swing it in our favour.

  96. jjetplane

    Jan 08, 2015, 17:11 #64660

    'Wallies' boy 'Wallies.' Please stay behind when the other AKBs have left. 'I also do not want to see, hear or smell that bag in the classroom area again and I shall be writing to your father Mr Westlower about your appearance. It seems quite improper to see a juvenile wearing a blazer with so many medals adorning it. Really!'

  97. Troy

    Jan 08, 2015, 17:00 #64659

    Jeff Wright you are completely wrong we are so lucky Arsene is our manager as he could have any other job he wanted. We should be grateful for that. PSG have Blanc, the guy is a fraud of a manager, they'd fire him right away if Wenger became available. Real Madrid have always kneed Wenger to join them, but he has refused and stayed loyal. Any big club would take Wenger. He'd walk the treble at clubs such as PSG and Real with thier money in mind. Look how Real play, with no DM, which apparently is the source to our problems. Wenger plays the same way, and if we had better players, we'd dominate just like Real with Wenger as a manager. We lack quality players, not a manager.

  98. David

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:59 #64658

    @I am in love with Arsene Wenger - In terms of greater Arsenal managers than AW, Herbert Chapman is the one who made Arsenal the club that it still pretty much is. AWs ambition was to take Arsenal up a notch - competing with the best in Europe. He has raised Arsenal's profile in Europe, but he hasn't made the club revered in the way that Man U or Liverpool are/were. He's merely polished-up what was already there. There isn't much between him and GG. Maybe he will achieve all that - he clearly wants to - but time is running out. You can't honestly say that he has achieved all that he wanted to, or looked like achieving 10 years ago?

  99. VestanPance

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:59 #64657

    Firstly, there's some 28 questions posed in that article, so whoever wrote "great article" is fibbing. It isn't, but it raises some interesting points. If you're going to write, then a basic understanding of it's principles might not go amiss. Firstly, I'm not anti-Arsenal, I don't hold any crux in the long term resentment held by both sets of supporters towards each other. I think Arsenal play a fantastic brand of football in the main, and it is a genuine shame that the football played hasn't brought greater success. This, along with the manager's eagerness to try to develop young English players and to give youth a go on the whole is worthy of merit. I fear he is coming to the end of his tenure at Arsenal and English football, if not Arsenal Football Club, will be poorer for his exit. Arsenal's problems are known, certainly you don't need a Stoke City season ticket holder to point them out, and one of the reasons perhaps the fixture between our two clubs is so relished by us/reviled by you is that we seem better than anyone else at exposing those frailties. So Mr Rose has a point by suggesting that Ryan Shawcross could at least go some way to alleviating those frailties. He is a natural leader, has two good feet (his eduction was Manchester United, you don't get to do that without being half decent), is strong in the air in both penalty areas and is blessed with a decent turn of pace, again a big issue with Mertesacker et al. So why not? That Ramsay incident. I was there, it was bloody horrendous, the worst thing I have ever witnessed on a football pitch. But there are inalienable facts associated to that day that those who were there can attest to. Firstly, the tackle itself was not malicious; he hasn't slid in and smashed into him from yards out, it was a horrible sequence of events that meant Ramsays leg was at an unnatural angle and stuck in the pitch. Horrible, terrible, but not meant. It genuinely wasn't Gooners. I was there. Glenn Whelan did attend to Ramsay whilst Arsenal players, perhaps in anger, perhaps not, were haranguing a referee who required no such thing and a visibly distraught Shawcross. Look at Shawcross immediately after the challenge; he is not now nor has he ever been Vinny Jones incarnate; it destroyed him. It would any of us. Horrendous, not malicious. To conclude, your (article?, opinion piece?, nonsense?) suggests that maybe Shawcross and Arsenal wouldn't be the worst idea. It wouldn't be, he's better than anything that currently operate in that area for you and his natural leadership would come in handy for a team desperately missing the influence that Vieira/Adams used to be able to exert on a game. The reason that Shawcross would never come is because of the one-eyed nonsense that you have chucked out purporting to be a reasonable piece on one of the Premier League's best defenders. He carries no baggage, he isn't a neanderthal a brute, a savage or an idiot. He's a great footballer who was involved in a terrible incident some years ago. I would personally hate to see him leave anywhere however if he were to go then the great institution that is Arsenal Football Club would be a fitting place. The problem is that the Arsenal fans of old, brought up on players who didn't mind putting a tackle in themselves have been pushed into the boozers of N5 to watch their team to be replaced with hipsters, football fashionistas & morons like you. Arsenal Football Club deserve Shawcross…it's just their modern supporters who don't. Enjoy the game.

  100. Avenell Road

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:48 #64656

    Why are there so many Stoke fans on here? Go away and sing Delilah or whatever sordid little things you get up to. Also, what makes Gooners think that Arsene is going to sign a Premier-League-ready, dominant, aggressive, commanding centre back for when there are 17 year old midfield starlets from Legia Warsaw to be snapped up? And literally snapped up when he has to play at the Brittania....

  101. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:47 #64655

    Don't let this article do what maybe it was intended, (and it's good to see some haven't and aren't) to detract from the real issue at hand, that we have an old long past it manager not up to the job and needs replacing ASAP.

  102. jeff wright

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:47 #64654

    Well done Croker for spotting the deliberate mistake! Your prize( a signed photo of Arsene and Arteta celebrating winning the 4th place trophy at Sunderland) is on its way to you by second class post. Of course everyone knows that Wenger has never won a European Trophy but he does hold the record for any Arsenal manager going the longest without winning any other ones as well . 9 years. You couldn\'t make it up.

  103. AMG

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:40 #64653

    Some great stuff from the Stoke lads, some a little bit deluded about the ability of Shawcross I fear - An ok player with a lot of spirit and application, something we desperately lack, but not exactly world class. For many of you, Simon's article may be the first you've read from an onlinegooner perspective. Please don't be fooled into thinking he's representative of Arsenal fans, although he probably is for a good many. I invite you to read some of the other articles available and you'll see that we're not all of the opinion that teams like Stoke only beat us by kicking us off the park. Stoke were a joy to watch in the last game and I hope for another good game at the weekend.

  104. jeff wright

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:36 #64652

    Apart from 'Stoking' up a bit of angst from all and sundry this article has been ,as others have pointed out,preceded by events in the past that suggest that footballers will play for anyone if the price is right .The circumstances for this occurring though have to be in place and tbh I can't see any evidence that this is the case with Shawcross. In fact it looks as likely to happen as Wenger signing Messi.

  105. Croker

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:35 #64651

    @ Jeff Post No. 68066. You mean George Graham instead of Wenger who won a Euro trophy, don't you mate? :)

  106. Avenell Road

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:34 #64650

    I'd have Shawcross at Arsenal in a shot. Never gonna happen of course.

  107. AMG

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:24 #64649

    You need to get out more Simon. I look unfavourably on Stoke fans who chose to boo Ramsey, but I don't hate Shawcross for what in truth wasn't anywhere near as aggressive a challenge as the one Coquelin put in the other night. He might be useful as a back up defender, but is no where near the class of player we need, so it's all a bit irrelevant.

  108. JAMIE

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:17 #64648

    I'ts funny how us akb's get tagged as being the unpleasant guys to the Stokies.Most of us akb's are kind sensitive middle England folk who just love a good wind up and don't really care about the squabbles you wally's love having with each other.I'm only really interested in watching Arsenal and getting behind them never concerned about opposition fans with their petty hatreds unless they invade my space then I flex my muscles.Anyway it's the away fans who like giving it to the Orks and most of them are superfan wobs.

  109. JEFF WRIGHT

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:15 #64647

    I am in love with Arsene Wenger,(yawn) I'm sick of freaks like you sunshine that keep changing their names after constantly being proven to be complete dipsticks under them .Name me another manager who has been at AFC for 18 years to allow him to win more trophies than ones who had only a few years to do so, albeit Mee and Wenger both won a European trophy ,unlike old clever clogs Arsene. Name me another Arsenal manager who had the choice of making finishing 4th a trophy? You can't so just shut up and crawl back under your stone you little worm.Chapman is and always will be the greatest manager in the history of AFC. Wenger has tainted his legacy with his greed for money and useless management over the past ten years and will continue to do so even with mugs like you slavishly supporting him . He is well past it and should have retired last season after his fortunate FA Cup win .

  110. Stokie74

    Jan 08, 2015, 16:09 #64646

    WOT A LOAD OF BOLLOX 1. He not a thug 2. He a much better player than he was under TP 3. HE WOULD NEVER PLAY FOR YOU 4. STOKE WOULDNT SELL TO YOU OR ANY ONE ELSE!!!

  111. Arseneknewbest

    Jan 08, 2015, 15:56 #64645

    I'm boycotting this so-called article and thread after posting this. It's a poor piece of writing about something that'll never happen, featuring more mistruths and mythology than a Gideon's Bible. And reading what a load of Stoke apologists think ain't fun, and nor is it original - well done Simon for tempting them on with some Pulis-esque logic! Biscuit-ersed apology or not, Shawcross set out to injure Ramsey, let's not kid ourselves. We should hope that the team shows some pelotas on Sunday so that we (at least) continue to have the upper hand over them at home.

  112. Croker

    Jan 08, 2015, 15:51 #64644

    Ramsey broke his own leg then? Thanks for popping in and sharing that, Stoke For Ever. If Arsenal lose to Stoke I just accept Arsenal have to improve and play better than Stoke next time but trying to blame Arsenal players for events that day is really low. Shawcross is just better off where his talents and commitment to the cause are appreciated. I don't think he would fit into Arsenal's style of play of building play from the back even though he's an accomplished stopper of attacks.

  113. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 08, 2015, 15:44 #64643

    I see Ty has made his first appearance, I bet he's even got all the gear on.

  114. jjetplane

    Jan 08, 2015, 15:21 #64642

    You wrote that piece because you want to be the first 'fan' to have a statue outside the WoK. Simon Jackson. You could not make it up. All the Stoke posts are great though one had 10 shades of JAMIE about it. Something about growing things. Very versatile these AKBs - would you not agree Simon?

  115. Gooner Matt

    Jan 08, 2015, 15:09 #64641

    It's people and articles like this that give us Gooners a bad name. Not all of us are brainwashed by Mr Wenger to believe that Stoke are a terrible club who are nothing but a boil on the arse. We hate them because we can't beat them! Yet we use the Shawcross/Rambo point as an excuse and we've been brainwashed by the professor and the media who don't give Stoke City enough credit. Over the Christmas period, we've seen Ryan Shawcross not give Diego Costa, Lukaku, RVP, Falcao and Rooney a sniff at goal...These are all world class players, thought of very highly. Yet Ryan Shawcross doesn't get a mention by the media and will probably be overlooked by Roy and his team again. I for one would welcome him with open arms to the club and perhaps some Gooners need to realise that Shawcross can offer more than Ramsey is doing (apart from one good season). Shawcross could transform our defence and give us something we've never had in a long time...a proper CB, who organises the defence and can push us that step further to challenging for the title. I know what I'd rather have!!

  116. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 08, 2015, 15:03 #64640

    Ron, 68008, we all know why.

  117. thatsimonrose

    Jan 08, 2015, 14:55 #64639

    The usual mix of responses, ranging from the reasonable to the wild! And congratulations to whoever mentioned the bingo word 'AKB'. Talk about bringing your preconceptions with you! I've still never been an AKB, sorry about that. I wrote the piece because Shawcross had been mentioned on Twitter and I wondered where the land lied on if he could viably be a target. An interesting debate. The answer appears to be yes/no.

  118. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 08, 2015, 14:35 #64638

    Here we go again and so soon into the new year. That question just says it all about the state Arsenals in at the moment, and how ambitious we are thanks to TOF of a manager we have, and shows the height of fans ambitions (well some anyway) again thanks to an old past it manager. Are we really not better than that? Can we really not get better than that? Not that it will/would make much difference. Sad.

  119. Willy

    Jan 08, 2015, 14:24 #64637

    Ransacked his leg? 50/50 challenge that Ramsey came off worse in, shawcross was devastated of the outcome he left the pitch in tears I think that shows he would never go out to injure a fellow professional somehow

  120. MartSC

    Jan 08, 2015, 14:17 #64636

    Ransacked? Eh ... To search through (something) thoroughly and often roughly: ransacked the drawer looking for my keys.2. To go through (a place) stealing valuables and causing disarray; pillage: ransacked the village.

  121. JAMIE

    Jan 08, 2015, 14:06 #64635

    GG's record against Wimbledon was W8 D5 L4.AW against Stoke W9 D3 L5.Not really much in it despite us having as some tell us all those fighters playing for us then.I'm surprised the wob's don't run coaches to Stoke on Saturday as they seem everything they want in a team.No tika taka,a traditional all squashed in together stadium,fans covered in tatts and vomit,get it in the mixer football.I would even chip in with the travelling expenses.

  122. Tired and Weary

    Jan 08, 2015, 13:56 #64634

    Was it really worth the effort writing such an immature collection of nonsensical opinions. Especially when it only serves to highlight your bigotry and complete lack of class. You really are pathetic, as are the vast majority of Arsenal followers when it comes to the subject of Stoke and Shawcross. Apparently we're the knuckle draggers, mmmmm!

  123. Elmo

    Jan 08, 2015, 13:48 #64632

    About time you GOONERS stoped moaning about Shawcross, wev'e heard it all before and frankly we don't care Ramsey is nothing but a mardarse it's a mans game get over it accidents happen. As for hating Stoke for the last 5 years you must obviously still be a child, most Stoke supporters have hated the ARSEnil since the 70's me included. Grow some balls and act like a man Love Stoke hate ARSEnil not for 5 years but a lifetime

  124. David

    Jan 08, 2015, 13:37 #64631

    radfordkennedy - spot on about Leeds taking pride of place in the dirtiness stakes in the 70s. However, the talents of the unhinged Peter Storey become more and more appealing in the light of the wishy-washiness of Arsenal's current midfield. In fact, were Arsenal to sign Shawcross, Storey would be the right man to give him a guided tour. If he is as serenely monk-like as the Stoke fans posting on this site seem to believe, he would need someone like Storey to mentor him properly.

  125. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 08, 2015, 13:35 #64630

    Stoke for Ever : The reason Shawcross would go to a club like ours if offered the chance is money, purely and simply money plus it would help him get back in the England team. As for Aaron Ramsey, left to me I would not play him away to teams like Stoke, I would bring in my more experienced and physical players for that kind of game. However as we don't have any physical players left anymore and our manager discourages that kind of football we played Aaron and he got smashed. I also think you will find not all Arsenal supporters see football in tribal lines so read the posts a bit closer and you will get a better idea of what some of our supporters think of you. You should be a bit more honest as well, Stoke supporters hate us because we beat you in 2 semi finals 71 & 72 and one of those games our centre forward played in goal and you still could n't beat us! However that was a far different Arsenal in 71 - 72 - they loved a bit rough and tumble not like today's more timid outfit.

  126. PU

    Jan 08, 2015, 13:30 #64629

    Shawcross wouldn't want to move to Arsenal you flops. 3-2. Bitter because Arsne can't win anything!

  127. jeff wright

    Jan 08, 2015, 13:28 #64628

    KEANE, I don't see any quality in our defence that started to decline after Wenger sold Cole to Chelsea and players like Campbell aged .Shawcross is nowhere near the player that the very angry Stoke supporters think that he is , by the way Stokies we are not all the dumb numb-skulls that you portray as being , but he certainly would not be out of place in our defence .He would be exposed more though by the overrated midget powder puffs in our midfield and dodgy GKs behind him. Come to think though our fullbacks are nothing to write home about either. I agree with Ron we need a new manager and different tactics it's laughable really how Wenger expects to take on top sides playing tika-taka with these players that he has.Of course it might help if Wenger had some idea of how tika-taka should be played.He had to ditch the tippy tappy in the semi and the final at Wembley last season to scrape wins and may well have to do so in the league this season to try and win his 4th place trophy when legs tire with the games coming at the rate of 3 a week . The BFG slow coach up front and the quicker Danny Boy at centre back - with balls being hoofed route one onto Per's rather large head for him to nod down for Sanchez .That is if Sanchez is still mobile, with Wenger in his desperation running him into the ground by playing him in every game.

  128. Stoke For Ever

    Jan 08, 2015, 13:22 #64627

    Why would our Ryan go to a club like your club the one club in the Premiership who did their level best to ruin his career over nothing more than a simple accident when he was been held back by another cheat that you had playing that day. Knowing Ryan as I do, Arsenal club are the last club in the world that he would sign for, in fact he has told me more than once that he would rather give up his career than have anything to do with Arsenal. Not one person who supports Stoke City have any respect for Arsenal as a club or your Manager because of what you all tried to do that day when that Ramsey broke his leg. We saw that day what the Arsenal stood for that day, while it was the Stoke players who went to his aid and tried to comfort him, your players showed the whole country what they all stand for when they all ran to the ref and tried their best to get Ryan sent off. When it all settled down and wiser more level headed pundits when over what had happened and with the help of television and photos all of them to a man came out and said it was just an accident. Even the ref came out and said the only reason he sent Ryan off was to defuse the situation because of the reaction of your players and manager. Yet here we are years after the event and you Arsenal supporters are still locked in a hatred of a very very good player who should actually not only playing for England but leading them as Captain. Its a disgusting state of affairs and every Arsenal supporter along with the whole of the Arsenal club from the directors down to the Manager and players deserve the hatred that we all feel for Arsenal.

  129. HighburyDave

    Jan 08, 2015, 13:16 #64626

    Could Arsenal sign Ryan Shawcross? Maybe. Would Arsenal sign Ryan Shawcross? No. Is Ryan Shawcross good enough for Arsenal? Probably not. Is Ryan Shawcross better than we already have? Sadly yes. From an England point of view it is puzzling how Roy Hodgson can think Chambers is a better option (other than being able to play right back). I believe if Chambers is handled correctly he will become a top class player, but at the moment Shawcross is one of the best and certainly one of the most consistent central defenders in the league. The only Stoke player i would definitely take is Begovic. To be fair to the Stoke fans; i was sat in the home end on 'THAT DAY' and everyone i could see was silent when Ramsey was down and applauded him off. Maybe if other Arsenal fans were not so quick to demonise them all based on one or two idiots (we have them aswell) we could afford this ridiculous 'rivalry'.

  130. Stoke are the Dustmen of the Premiership

    Jan 08, 2015, 13:16 #64625

    Oh dear looks like this article has been invaded by the inbred trash from Stoke

  131. jjetplane

    Jan 08, 2015, 12:56 #64624

    Wozzie's dad as just referred to the BFG as a rhino. Little bit not in squad methinks. JAMIE instead of carrying a bag of cds and a few tinnies everywhere you go, why not get yourself a supermarket trolley to put them in and then you can push that around the streets while whistling and singing 'there's only one Arse ....' You are the man - cannot wait for the drama. It's like BADDIE never left us for ARSeBLoG .....

  132. mc

    Jan 08, 2015, 12:50 #64623

    THis is a typical arsenal outlook, think you are the biggest and best out there, stoke are becoming a force and ryan is leading us to it, makes me laugh how you are asking the question of if you would be interested in him, where the better question to ask would be: would he want to go to you? you all need to look at what you are now.

  133. Keane

    Jan 08, 2015, 12:43 #64622

    Shawcross is AVERAGE and we already have too many average players, we want QUALITY, REAL QUALITY!!!!!!!! Average rating this season and previous 4 seasons for Stoke: 6.9 6.86 6.62 6.53 6.66 That is not ARSENAL QUALITY whatsoever, that is stoke quality

  134. chris dee

    Jan 08, 2015, 12:30 #64620

    Obviously a quiet day in the Rose household ,so Simon thinks what can I write that's controversial and will stir everyone up. He also thought of writing '.Could Arsenal sign Tony Pullis as manager','Should Daniel Levy become Arsenal new Chairman','Should Adrian Durham be Arsenal's new Head of Communications'.Tremendous article Simon.

  135. Tony Evans

    Jan 08, 2015, 12:22 #64619

    Good to see some sensible responses to Simon's rhetorical question were mixed in with the daft comments from the usual suspects (the Jamies of this world). I have no issue with Stoke as a club and would welcome a bit of their spirit and attitude at Arsenal. Never going to happen under Wenger with the way he derides the more physical aspects of the game to Arsenal's detriment.

  136. Arsene Forever

    Jan 08, 2015, 12:21 #64618

    Arsene is busy making 64m bid for Isco and you lot think midtable garbage like Shawcross is needed. Arsene will only sign defenders like Hummels not garbage like Shawcross.

  137. John F

    Jan 08, 2015, 12:13 #64617

    Ron I am afraid you are right about Arsenal being unpopular. I have lived in Beverley and worked in Hull for the past 11 years. we have gone from being popular when I first moved up to being disliked by a lot of Hull fans I speak to.One Hull fan was telling me about visiting the Emirates for the league game this year. He commented on the lack of atmosphere and a couple of Arsenal fans outside having a moan at them for playing defensive tactics and not letting Arsenal win.I still wear my 1971 Arsenal shirt though.

  138. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 08, 2015, 12:05 #64616

    I have no problem with Stoke or their fans - the irony is it was the 2-1 defeat that I witnessed against Stoke (when Clichy scored 01/11/09) that was my watershed as far as AW and the current structure is concerned. We were cowards that day, purely and simply cowards, from Alumina to Adebayor it was the most limp wristed and frightened display I have ever witnessed in over 50 years of watching Arsenal. I have not watched them in the flesh since - as the great Bill Shankley said "to play football you have to have courage if you don't have courage keep out of the game because you're a menance" Trust me that day all eleven Arsenal players were a menace!

  139. zeus

    Jan 08, 2015, 12:01 #64615

    arsenal are in dire need of "a shawcross". Per is , frankly, awful and there is no strength in the backline. Chelsea & Man City have it, United dont and that is why they are struggling too. wenger needs to wake up & sign players who have bottle as well as ability or arsenal win nothing.

  140. Croker

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:59 #64614

    Just the one glaring issue with Simon's point of view - Shawcross can't play football.

  141. HighburyDave

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:52 #64613

    Can't we just move on? It is getting tedious, Ramsey is back now(has been for years!) and we have more important things to worry about, like not getting humiliated again on Sunday! (p.s is the ? button on your pc stuck???????)

  142. Onner

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:48 #64612

    I enjoyed reading the comments far more than the article. The unfortunate thing is that these types of dross articles only go to fuel the bile between the clubs. After reading the comments I take heart in that Arsenal have some decent logical fans too. I also agree with Psyclops, it is a thoughtful questions and if not for the questions and ridiculous undertones that suggest intent on Ryan's behalf it could of posed a worthwhile question. Shawcross showed immediate remorse and was devastated from the unfortunate accident. Hopefully he'll play a blinder this weekend for the team he loves. Cheers

  143. Ron

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:44 #64611

    EG - the 'rounded and talented' bull crap exemplifies to a tee the haughty, misconceived,superior and snobbish attitude to other Clubs and their players that has been taken by many AFC fans since we moved to that bloody Stadium in my view. Look at the references on here to 'ork's, 'middle earth' and 'in breds' et al. Its quite pathetic. I have to say that its a manner that i see in London based Arsenal fans in particular and as an exiled Londoner of many years its an unpleasant finding to say the least. Ever likely many opposition fans North, East and West of the M25 detest the Arsenal.

  144. JAMIE

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:42 #64610

    In fairness jjetplane you'll also be sitting there in your flannelette onesie and sipping your warm horlicks and moaning about where all the pwoper geezers have gone.

  145. Charlie George Orwell

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:42 #64609

    Stoke fans – JAMIE certainly does not speak for the vast majority on this site. Kj: we did have a ‘hard mob’ with the ‘Invincibles’ (not untouchables – that’s our noisy neighbours Spuds, who forever live in our shadow) – and as such we rarely got out-muscled by lesser teams whose game plan was simply to cut it up rough. BUT the Invincibles had bucket loads of skill – truly world class players. Something which many of us at AFC have bemoaned since the totally inept management since their break up.

  146. Exeter Gunner

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:33 #64608

    This signing would never happen for the obvious reasons, I suspect you have written it as a 'no one else will have thought of this' piece. The most outlandish suggestion however is that AFC is the 'ideal' club for Shawcross to become a more 'rounded and talented defender'. You not been watching our defence the last few years? You realise there has to be some actual defensive coaching for a player to improve, don't you?

  147. Ron

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:31 #64607

    R/K and K/J - Well posted both of you.

  148. Pete

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:26 #64606

    I think the days of Stoke dealing with Arsenal (and vice versa) will be a long time coming. Ryan Shawcross was visibly upset at the time and made numerous attempts to reach out to Ramsey but he refused them all. Have no problem with that. Arguably, ShawX was pulled back going into the challenge - arguably he wasn't. Its irrelevant as bad challenges happen in football. Some players just head butt their opponents...

  149. Red Member

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:24 #64605

    the least we have to do with Stoke and their vile in bred supporters the better.

  150. jjetplane

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:23 #64604

    As a gooner from before Rosie was constructed at AKB Central (products division) I am with the Stoke fans all the way. Mr Rose is truly at the forefront of the Arsene driven malaise. Hoping for a goal or two from Ryan as he uses the BFG as a step ladder .... We want are football and our real fans back.

  151. JAMIE

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:22 #64603

    Shawcross is certainly not the sort of player we should be bringing to Arsenal.Stoke along with West Ham are the only teams in the top flight who have refused to evolve from the 1980's Wimbledon style shiite.Like all these little teams they like to get up for the big games and then bottle it against similar teams to them.If Shawcross was any good why can Stoke only deliver at middle earth in front of 25,000 orks when the refs give them every decision and unable to get up for away games where only about 500 bother to travel.People moan about Per yet he has the best pass completion rate in the Premiership, a lot of the wob's will be creaming themselves always thinking the grass is greener,yet they will be first to get on his back when they realise we've signed another Pascal Cygan.

  152. Hibeegunner

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:15 #64602

    Ron spot on with your comment. My son like just outside Stoke and his father-in-law is a steward at the club. One day he took his and my grandson aged 6 along to the ground one afternoon they were in the dressing room area and who should appear but R.S. he stopped and spoke asked my grandson who his favourite player was and he replies Peter Crouch about 5 minutes later R.S. appeared with P.C.who in turn signed his replica shirt and gave him small boys polo shirt. Now while I get all this hatred of R.S. on various Arsenal blogs at least he took time out to show a young boy a bit of human kindness which sadly lacks in todays society.

  153. Philip Sheldon

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:13 #64601

    well you appear to be a Neanderthal yourself! have you not watched stoke lately? did you not witness the demolition of Arsenal? with passing football and skilful play from back to front, wake up!!!!

  154. KJ

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:12 #64600

    Radford You are correct about Leeds being dirtier,they were known throughout the land as that,Peter Storey used to be a little tinker against Stoke and your lot could mix it .Some would say Stoke could have been Arsenal if those semi finals had gone a different way early 70s when football was a more level playing field..Every Stoke fan knows of these semi finals and Stoke usually taking the upper hand for referees to change the game.God we shiver at the offside decision at Goodison that night where the linesman mistaked a ice cream seller as a white shirted Stoke defender when your player was 10 yards ofside.Two great sides the mind.Stoke went on to break the British transfer record signing Shilton ,Hudson,Salmons etc to go with the local back four of Smith,Bloor,Pejic and Marsh and the mercurial Greenhoff.So younger Arsenal fans should take heed before looking down at little old Stoke City.

  155. JK

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:11 #64599

    I'm AFC and I am truly embarrassed by what rubbish I have just read. 1. We hate Stoke because we can hardly match them. 2. Shawcross showed no remorse? He was in floods of tears on the pitch. It's fans/writers/advocates like you that need I jump off the Piers bandwagon. And btw - Shawcross would never ever join Arsenal. Geez write an article that's worth reading

  156. Joe v

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:06 #64598

    This is reminds me of one those scenarios when you accidentally hurt a kid in the playground in school and no matter how much you apologise to the little **** bag, he screams, he did it on purpose! I ****ing love the animosity you guys show to stoke because at the end of the day it's what makes them beat you again and again...

  157. dutchstokie

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:04 #64597

    Just stick to harassing your own manager at train stations and pitchside.

  158. Pugsley

    Jan 08, 2015, 11:00 #64596

    More arse gravy from deluded Arsenal 'supporters'. Dream on about having a centre-half and a MAN as good as Ryan in your ranks. Pathetic drivel from a bunch of no-nothing idiots who think football started in 1992 and haven't even heard of thugs like Peter Storey who used to 'ply their trade' at Highbury.

  159. radfordkennedy

    Jan 08, 2015, 10:57 #64595

    Kj....Hello mate,I don't know how old you are but I beg to differ with your statement that we were the dirtiest team in the 70's,that accolade must surely go to the Leeds team of Giles,Hunter etc,if you don't remember them mate I can assure you they were detestable vile individuals.l have to say kj that I can't speak for every Gooner but please don't confuse our contempt for your manager with any animosity towards your team,there's a history of violence between Hughes and us going back years,indeed I'm old enough to remember brilliant Stoke players of the past like Banksy,Burrows,Greenhoff,Conroy and big John Ritchie and have no problem with Stoke at all.

  160. AM

    Jan 08, 2015, 10:48 #64594

    I'd have taken him in 2010. In fact I suggested it to my Dad before that game. Too much water under the bridge on both sides now though.

  161. NICK STOKE FAN

    Jan 08, 2015, 10:25 #64592

    should arsenal sign RS? 'course not. never read such a load of patronising tosh in all my life. " Would appearing alongside our more urbane types help to perform a makeover on Shawcross, that would help to transform him from a Neanderthal into a talented expressive human being?" hahahahahahahaha! says it all really. don't forget those neanderthals completely out outplayed the expressive human beings recently.

  162. Tom

    Jan 08, 2015, 10:18 #64591

    Why? So? Many? Question? Marks? Did your teacher just introduce you to rhetorical questions? Also the article is rubbish (?)

  163. Ron

    Jan 08, 2015, 10:17 #64590

    Wrong actually. Not all Arsenal fans see Stoke as a load of butchers and cloggers. Its a convenient excuse to gloss over our Clubs feeble approach to football for the last 7-8 years and expalins away the teams unmatched ability to bottle football matches. Shawcross is an OK defender, not brilliant but to be honest, we could have Bobby Moore, Paulo Maldini, Franco Baresi and Tony Adams at the back of that defence but in front of that clown of a Keeper we tolerate and under Wenger the defence would still leak like a sieve. Arsenal need a new coach and almost a totally new defence and a tactician Manager in touch with the way modern football is now played. Why keep skirting away from the obvious?

  164. A.F.C. 1886 - 2006

    Jan 08, 2015, 10:03 #64589

    Somebody else has already mentioned Campbell, but in reality this is a futile debate. There's no way the club would spend that amount on a proven Premiership defender when they can't be arsed forking out an extra 600 grand for a Polish teenager. Besides, as soon as Arsenal bids under the price asked for the player, the green light goes on for MUtd or whoever else is prepared to pay the market rate.

  165. Potter

    Jan 08, 2015, 9:53 #64588

    Ryan has a thing called integrity a noun - "the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles." Thats why you will never sign a player with heart!

  166. Stoke

    Jan 08, 2015, 9:43 #64587

    You are a typical deluded arsenal fan

  167. Psyclops

    Jan 08, 2015, 9:42 #64586

    What a thoughtful piece. It's the old dilemma isn't it - a player / manager is so solidly associated with a club that it's difficult to see past that to assess the question of quality. Names from the past - George Graham, Sol Campbell, .. Steve Bould and Lee Dixon - two that crossed London, and two that left Stoke for Arsenal. The amount of froth generated by those moves ... and yes, the moves of Bould and Dixon can be included in that ... left bad tastes in the mouth of purists, but we live in a world where people will follow an opportunity if it benefits them either personally or financially. Ryan Shawcross is one of those 'marmite' characters - you either love him or hate him, I guess there are equal numbers of both. Would he walk into a top Premier League club? Well United have been 'sniffing' around looking at the availability of bringing their former player back for a while, and there is nothing that convinces me that players line Smalling and Evans would be a block to him starting for Man U. Liverpool - possibly starting beside Skertle - tick, Everton - certainly better than Distan, Chelsea after Terry - Cahill and Shawcross possible, Spurs - yep. So is he better than the current Arsenal pair? I'm not convinced he's yet at England level, his distribution is still a weakness, but as a leader of a defence who is willing to walk through walls for the club, I have no concerns. Why Hodgson is not using him in some of the qualifiers is baffling. If Cahill gets injured shortly before the Euro's are we really saying that we are comfortable with Smalling and Jones alongside the ageing Phil Jagielka? The simple question for Arsenal fans to consider is "would he add something / would he solidify our defence?" The answer can only be "undoubtedly yes." He is one of only two Premier League players this season not to have missed a single minute in all competitions (O'Shea is the other) and he would provide the basis of that sound defence that is so patently absent at Arsenal, as well as the leadership that is so badly missing at the back. Would people be talking about Arsenal's 'soft underbelly' with Ryan in the team - I don't think so. Having said that - could he play for Arsenal? Nah. The 2010 incident is always raked up whenever he plays against the club, people have long and stymied memories - and to be realistic would / could Ramsey play in front of his nemesis? Probably not, and the cost £20m (very likely to be an accurate ball park figure) is another stumbling block, as well as the fact he's on a VERY long contract with the Potters - 6 years. It's interesting that you've actually raised the question though, and it will be fascinating to see the degree to which respondents focus on the question rather than reacting with an emotional outburst.

  168. Pure STOKE

    Jan 08, 2015, 9:29 #64585

    Deluded article, Ryan Shawcross IS the best English defender in the Premier League the only factual thing you got right was a £20 million price tag.... Dream on !

  169. Joseph

    Jan 08, 2015, 9:18 #64584

    Interesting article although far to many questions & very few answers or opininon. As a neutral it's obvious that Shawcross would be an asset to Arsenal. Some Stoke "steel" is what Arsenal desperately need & I feel Shawcross offers that in abundance along with other qualities. I believe he's a poor mans John Terry in playing style & will only improve. Both are unliked but both are invaluable to their clubs. I can understand Arsenal fans not wanting Shawcross but I believe he would improve their starting eleven & is maybe a missing piece of the jigsaw... Along with a defensive midfield of course. ;) As Arsenal would improve, I'm sure Stoke would suffe without him & struggle to replace him. He is their rock & I'm sure Stoke know that. £20 million in today's market would be good business for Arsenal but bad for Stoke. Shawcross for England? Yes please.

  170. Rog

    Jan 08, 2015, 9:15 #64583

    As a level headed reasonably intelligent human being and Yes a Stoke City supporter, I find it incredible the inwardly biased perspective many Arsenal fans endure. Ryan Shawcross is a genuinely decent guy, he's hardworking and applies his trade with nothing but professionalism. What happened to Aaron Ramsey was awful and something no one wants to see on a football pitch, including Ryan! It's time to let it go chaps, football is ALL about money and clubs buy and play within those parameters. If every football match was played by two Arsenals it would soon become a dull world. Would be interesting to know how many legs past Arsenal players have inadvertently broken.. Good luck to the weekend and here's to banishing the blinkered and the uneducated.

  171. AJH

    Jan 08, 2015, 9:12 #64582

    Yes let's talk about decency for a moment shall we. Would that be the decency that was shown by Glenn Whelan attending to the injured Ramsey on the floor while Arsenal players tried to start a fight with Shawcross who was quite clearly devastated by what had happened. Would that be the same decency that made Shawcross ring Ramsey several times to be ignored. Absolutely ridiculous article.

  172. AC SCFC

    Jan 08, 2015, 9:07 #64581

    Ryan Shawcross wouldnt sign for Arsenal if you where the last club on earth so why are you wasting your time even contemplating him joining you Ryan is a credit to himself, his family and Stoke City Football Club so why would he lower his standards to join a vile, loathsome bunch of twats and to play under a senial, blind cheat? I have my doubts that he would ever want to leave us but if he did then you would be the last club that he would ever go to Having met both Ryan and Ramsey I can honestly say that Ryan was a complete gentleman and Ramsey was a surly, unpleasant prick who even the arsenal fans in the room didnt like

  173. Black Hei

    Jan 08, 2015, 9:04 #64580

    What a stupid question. How about this. If you have Zidane on your team, will you contemplate signing Marco Materazzi? Now let's move along.

  174. John

    Jan 08, 2015, 8:59 #64579

    Great article & raises a very good point of how players are over looked because them or their club are not seen as appealing to Arsenal. Shawcross would be a great choice for us, him & Kos could be a great pairing, he'd give us that steal at the back that Per doesn't because strikers & teams know that Per is never going to be go through a player, he's a get a toe in type of defender

  175. kj

    Jan 08, 2015, 8:43 #64578

    That has to be the most arrogant article ever written,oh and for information Ryan Shawcross did apologise but your little petal Ramsey would not accept it. Shawcross wouldnt join your bunch of snidey back stabbing mob in a million years.You might play pretty football but no one cheats and puts sly nasty challenges in like Arsenal,hence all the red cards over the last decade.Look at Stokes and Ryans Record over the last year ,what no red cards for Stoke all season again.You created the media hype and i for one Stokie will never forgive you.Throw in you had the dirtiest team in the 70s and the hardest nastiest mob in your untouchables .You also then have short memorys.What a load of garbage this article is.

  176. Pesho Saulov

    Jan 08, 2015, 8:39 #64577

    IMHO Shawcross is a very decent CD and would improve our back line. However, there are many defenders out there that are better than hat we currently have. The line has to be drawn somewhere and I for one will be absolutely livid to see the Stoke captain in Arsenal colors. It's not just the Ramsey incident, Shawcross sums up Stoke's approach to games with the Arsenal - just go out and try to injure them, the ref will never give us 3 yellow cards in the first 15 mins. In general, as an Arsenal supporter, I wish nothing but the very worst to this hateful club and everyone connected with it.

  177. Gooner Fan

    Dec 05, 2012, 10:04 #29146

    If you learn the history of Wenger when he was managing Monaco, you'll see he's repeating what he's done over there at Arsenal. In case if you don't know, after being successful in winning the league, he integrated his youth project, sounds familiar? While the team finished 2nd place a few times, but later on the years they finished further down, until Wenger was fired when Monaco was struggling at the bottom half of the table. Take away the match fixing scandal by Marseille, you'll see there's some similarities with what's Wenger is doing at Arsenal for the past few years. Wenger tries to replicate what he did at Monaco and things aren't doing so well. You have to be blind, not to see that. Also, we heard from Gazidis and PHW time and time again that they have provided Wenger with loads of money to spend. It's either they are lying or Wenger is. If it's the latter, don't you think Arsene has the integrity to stand up for himself and stop the board from making himself a liar? But I suppose an annual salary of £7 million will shut up anyone. You hear from Wenger time and time again why he didn't spend, because a) he didn't see the "quality" he looking for. There was time when he was looking for "quality signing" then he bought Silvestre b) worried it will hurt the development of the young players in the club like when Wenger had a chance get Xabi Alonso, but he said he worried about Denilson and Diaby. Wenger had a chance to get Mata who was affordable in Arsenal's price range, but he stalled and the release clause expired which made Mata more expensive. Why he stalled? Don't know, maybe trying to squeeze a million or two like he tried at Fulham with Mark Schwarzer. Wenger is the one always preaching to other clubs how they should spend responsibly, the board just regurgitate his words. Look at the facts and get some common sense. If you can't see the Wenger is part of the problem when it comes to transfers, then you really do have an agenda. Because anyone with common sense knows that Wenger shouldn't be blameless on this.

  178. Chris

    Dec 03, 2012, 16:33 #28994

    @Gooner fan - The point is that none of us know what is going on inside the club. I have never, and never would, suggest that something I (or you!) can't know about is a lie. Personally, though, I do find it hard to believe that Wenger is willingly sitting on a mountain of cash that he simply refuses to spend. We have heard him say time and time again how we simply can't compete financially for the top level of player - you conveniently forget to mention this, is that because you think he is lying and/or because it doesn't fit in with YOUR agenda...?

  179. Gooner Fan

    Dec 02, 2012, 1:08 #28841

    @Chris: regarding the "available unspent funds", how about reading out there what the board says that they have given millions for Wenger to spend time and time again or the multiple reports of the that Arsene been given between £50m and £100m this year. It's funny how you seem to forget these facts and only bring up the facts that suit your agenda. Let me guess, since those facts doesn't benefit you and your arguments, they are lies, right? Only you speak the truth. Yes, it's always the board going against Wenger and never Arsene's fault on how the money is spent.

  180. Green Hut

    Dec 02, 2012, 0:22 #28838

    @Chris-If you genuinely believe counting trophies is the wrong way to measure success then we'll have to agree to disagree, but to hear Wenger say at the AGM that finishing 4th was more important to him than winning the FA Cup was pretty galling for someone who spends thousands a year following Arsenal. Of course the Carling Cup is pretty worthless, but at least it would have got the monkey of our back and in 30 years Birmingham fans won't remember that they got relegated, they'll just remember the silverware. But all pro/anti Wenger arguments eventually led to the question of whether the board are witholding transfer funds, and in this respect I only deal in facts. The fact that Gazidis constantly states that Wenger has money to spend, often with Wenger sitting next to him. The fact that Wenger has never said he has no money to spend. And the fact that all independent analysis of the accounts show that he has money to spend. Yet some fans believe that Gazidis is lying and Wenger knows this but says nothing and takes much of the flak. To me, this where the facts end and fantasy begins. Apart from there being absolutely no evidence of this, why would Wenger behave this way? He doesn't owe Kroeke/Gazidis anything, and to think that he would stay quiet while his team are being annually and unneccesarily damaged is ludicrous. But anyway, I'll bore off now as I'm sure with the Swansea debacle you, me and Kev will be the only people reading this, but I'm sure we'll hook up again soon.

  181. Chris

    Dec 01, 2012, 9:38 #28828

    @Green Hut - Fans of Spurs and Brum would doubtless give their right arm, & much more readlily their Carling Tinpot Cup trophies, in exchange for consistent appearance in the knock-out stages of the CL. Your pecularly selective idea of counting trophies is, unfortunately, bankrupt because either they are lower acheivements than those Arsenal have made in the same epriod (see above - Brum were of course relegated in their 'triumphant' season) or the trophies are only ever won by team spending 100-200% more than Arsenal on wages+transfers. As for 'clearly available' unspent funds - how do you know what is actually available and what contrainsts there are on spending what you might imagine to be availalbe, either from the board or from e.g. banks to whom Arsenal ower hundreds of millions still?

  182. Ali

    Dec 01, 2012, 7:23 #28827

    Arsenal is years away from competing with the top teams: Learn to live with that fact.

  183. mbrad1960

    Nov 30, 2012, 21:53 #28822

    not sure what game you were watching if you thought ramsey had an ok game, i only saw it on tv, and i saw ramsey 3 times, and he gave the ball away ...... yeah you guessed it 3 times ...... yeah ok he gets an assist for the goal, but my nan could made that pass!!

  184. Fozzy's mate

    Nov 30, 2012, 12:41 #28806

    Chris and co - an entertaining spat/debate to follow. I agree with those who in isolation say that a point at Everton is an ok result. The problem is that 5 wins from 14 games is quite simply mediocre and mid table. Markymark - good question re Diaby. He was out for the perennial 3 weeks about 8 weeks ago and there is no sign of a return. Seaman on goals on Sunday whilst being supportive of OGL pointed out the decision to sell Song was according to the manager a gamble based on Diaby staying foit, which was against all previous evidence. I am afraid his willngness to gamble on such crocks has proved disastrous over the last few years, Diaby, Gibbs and Rosicky to name but 3. Our battles now are Swansea and WBA over the next 2 weekends. Chelsea are treading water so whilst the title is already out of reach (it was never plausible) I can see us stumbling over the line again and lifting the mythical 4th place trophy having qualified for the knock out stages of the champs league, which will make DDT, MSS and PHW enjoy their caviar even more. Re 7th being the new 4th, MSS has been elcted to the UEFA board so don't rule it out!

  185. Chris

    Nov 30, 2012, 12:21 #28804

    Whoops - should have been 'facts aren't based on faith' of course!

  186. JollyJumper

    Nov 30, 2012, 12:14 #28802

    No team for which Ramsey plays can win a football match. Pathetic. Get him out with usual suspects, starting with the owner, Board, Gaz and Wenger. Get back our Arsenal!g

  187. Chris

    Nov 30, 2012, 11:08 #28796

    @Stroud Green Road Boy - There is no clearer demonstration of a position based only on faith than a counter-argument based only on accusing me of that! At least Green Hut attempted to put argue the point, even if, like you, he is completely wrong! The points I have made are factual, facts are based on faith.

  188. Graham Simons

    Nov 30, 2012, 9:29 #28788

    The biggest problem with us is we accept mediocrity. "Oh, we drew against Everton - well what did you expect? we can't hope to compete with the likes of Chelsea and the Manchester clubs." If we really are insistent on being a middle of the road club then can we at least please drop the ticket prices and cut the manager's salary?! If we can only hope to be 4th best then why isn't our manager only 4th highest paid and why don't we have the 4th highest ticket prices?! If you're going to act like a business Arsenal - expect to be treated like one!

  189. DW Thomas

    Nov 30, 2012, 3:14 #28786

    Better game to watch than Villa for sure. Yet, I can't get excited about games anymore. Even Cazorla seems less effective than earlier in the season. Wenger's comments about the minority of fans booing him really just adds fuel to the fire. He gets paid a****load of cash to fail now for several seasons. No amount of spin can hide this fact. No AKB, and I don't really like that term, can deny he has won nothing for too many seasons. That combined with his selling of our best because of the idiotic wage tier, is enough to cry out for change. If ambition is defined as doing what it takes to win trophies, we surely lack it. If Walcott and Sagna leave, this club is officially a shambles. Especially Sagna. He is class, has heart, and never lacks effort. Shouldn't we be doing all we can to keep him loyal and happy?

  190. CanadaGooner

    Nov 29, 2012, 23:26 #28785

    Kev, I couldnt help comparing our game against the Spurs v Liverpool game and similar to this time last season, spurs are again playing some very good football (not unlike that arsenal did for years and dwindled away towards the end of the season, just like spurs did last season and are bound to do again this season). I prefer a rugged arsenal with less flashy footwork and endless passing; so, perhaps we're about to turn a corner? I dont think I'll be too disappointed if wenger were to leave at the end of the season though; 14 games played, 4 games (12 points) behind the leading team isnt where all the various projects were supposed to lead us. i dont want to start sounding like the mindlessly disgruntled 'wenger out' folks on here, but i dont think it's too much to ask that arsenal win away at everton.

  191. Green Hut

    Nov 29, 2012, 22:04 #28782

    @Chris- Here we go again with your very selective analysis. 'Best record of turning resources into results'? Notice you use the word 'results' and not 'trophies', as obviously we haven't won any, whilst teams like Birmingham and tottenham have done so in recent years whilst spending considerably less than Arsenal. But the big problem when you talk about the use of resources are the numerous times that Wenger has failed to strengthen the squad with clearly available funds (the January transfer windows of 2008, 2010 and 2011 are prime examples) and we crumbled away from very promising positions under the weight of injuries and mental weakness. Maybe you're sanguine about this, but it drives some of us crazy, alongside the lack of discernable tactics, ridiculous excuses, embarrassing interviews and a regular and total lack of grace in defeat. Congratulations on your patience, but not all of us are so lucky, especially when we pay £1000+ a year to be a part of Wenger's continuing vanity project.

  192. Gooner SA

    Nov 29, 2012, 21:56 #28781

    @Chris Are you actually Arsene Wenger or Ivan Gazidis pretending to be called Chris? Lmao!

  193. GoonerRon

    Nov 29, 2012, 21:52 #28780

    To this viewer it was a good away performance and we earned a deserved point. Everton played well and being the home team (and not one who would sit back at try to take a point) its not unexpected for them to have plenty of the play and to create some chances. We showed lots of fight, energy and some quality which, when missing in other games, lots on here are very quick to point out. If you look at our fixtures played so far we've played 8 out of 14 away from home, and 5 of those have been against sides currently in the top 10. I know we are inconsistent at the moment but looking at our fixtures up to and including New Years Day, we've got a great chance to build some momentum.

  194. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Nov 29, 2012, 21:39 #28779

    Chris, like all those with religious faith, there is no point arguing with you. You worship at the church of Wenger, get told non-achievement is achievement and believe it. And there is no hope of you ever questioning your faith because you still believe you're an independent thinker. Either that or you are somehow benefiting financially from the status quo at AFC.

  195. Dein's Boys provided the DNA which we now lack

    Nov 29, 2012, 21:20 #28778

    tout le monde/stroud green boy; the arsenal teams mid 90's to mid 2000's had enough momentum they barely needed a manager. this lot were collectively so highly motivated - it was a generation that came through at the same time as Highbury was peaking in its glory. Merson, Wright, Parlour, Adams, Cole, Keown; add Seamen, Dixon, Wburn, Campbell. the Toures, viera, petit, ljunberg, berkhamp, Pires, henri, Fab, Van could not fail to get the DNA in their system. this lot were all to a man up for it. I take my hat off to Fergy and Man U for being highly competitive back then and still today. that man and that club did not lose its DNA

  196. Jamie Hunter

    Nov 29, 2012, 21:13 #28777

    kev, I wonder if the imminent Christmas period has softened you up a touch? I thought last night was dreadful. Especially in the second half. Although on second thoughts, if anything we looked like what we are, ie a Europa league standard team that, if enough clubs mess it up like last year, may sneak into the champions league. A bit like, say, Everton, or Spurs. Take away the money, and the champions league is a waste of time anyway. At least we have a decent chance of a semi final or even final in that competition before screwing it up.

  197. Stevesam

    Nov 29, 2012, 19:23 #28773

    @Jude - any idea who made the goal with a great forward pass to Wally or did you miss it ? You should take the blinkers off. Your comments are becoming boring. Perhaps you would prefer Gervinho, the Ox or the Coq in the midfield battle zone. The reason Ramsey played is that he has the bottle for the pyhsical games. I expect Rosicky to replace Ramsey, when he is fully fit.

  198. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 29, 2012, 19:16 #28772

    So many posters on here continue to type the same old cliches, 4th place trophy, 7th place trophy, Man Ure wouldn't be happy with a point at Everton(they lost there this season in case you need reminding), would have won at Villa if we had played Jack(well he was injured so couldn't play), losing a four goal lead, losing 8-2, blah blah blah. It was a decent point away from home, end of.

  199. Chris

    Nov 29, 2012, 19:11 #28771

    @Stroud Green Road Boy - au contraire. The facts demonstrate how very well Wenger has done. 13th consecutive appearance in the CL knock-out rounds anyone? Best record of turning resources into results of ANY top PL manager anyone? Responsible for increasing the size of those resources by facilitating the stadium move, qualifying for CL every year and being amazingly profitable in the tranfer market anyone? Deluded and desperate are the short-termist blind as a mole rat fans who think that despite the very good reasons that we haven't been able to compete financially for the past few years, we should still have been winning or nearly winning the league and finishing above the teams with infintie resrouces every season. You are angry, you are frustrated - but you are also blind. These things come in cycles and I for one will enjoy the coming upturn (when it comes!) with an inner satisfaction borne from having ridden the not-so-good times with relative good grace and unfailing support for the team and the manager. That doesn't come from thinking Wenger is god/faultless/hero, it comes from perspective and commonsense.

  200. GoonerGoal!

    Nov 29, 2012, 18:52 #28770

    Don't worry be happy! 4th place is definitely not in danger because it was never a reasonable objective this season. Those of you who have supported the Board and the Manager must should be really enjoying this season. This is what you wished for while continuing to support the Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger ruling class, even if it's only now you are suddenly becoming aware of exactly what you have done. We are very much on target to finish with my expected 60-66 points, but we are unlikely to even make the Europa League. I guess every cloud really does have a silver lining! The answer is blowing in the wind. VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

  201. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Nov 29, 2012, 18:08 #28769

    @ Chris, can't be sure to what degree the Invincibles were a consequence of the Adams led teams. What is certain however is the clear and ongoing decline of the team under Wenger now. The league table is there for all to see. I'd say a lot of this Wenger propping up in the face of the facts looks deluded and desperate to impartial observers.

  202. Jude Jolicoeur

    Nov 29, 2012, 17:47 #28768

    I tend to agree with Joe with respect to Ramsey. The comment that he "had a decent enough match" is quite charitable. Please stop giving him a free pass. I don’t like the fact that we have another player ruined by injury, but he gave the ball away a lot and slows down the attack. He keeps making the same errors time and again, and shows no ability to speed up his decision making. At one point, Jack drove forward from our box and fed Ramsey, who hesitated until the counter-attack was off, and proceeded to give it away. He needs a loan. Playing him out of position on the wings is helping neither him nor the team.

  203. Chris

    Nov 29, 2012, 17:28 #28767

    @Stroud Green Road Boy - Hmmm... I don't think Adams was a member of the Invincibles was he? Don't tell me - the spirit of that famous back five miraculously permeated the next teams so that Wenger's incompetent match day management techniques were rendered irrelevent, allowing the team to avoid defeat all season. LOL! Alot of this wenger bashing looks like deluded buffoonery to most impartial obsevers.

  204. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 29, 2012, 17:24 #28766

    Yet again after scoring and going in front we weren't capable of holding on to it and it was inevitable we would concede.No surprise there i know, but the fact is we're now at our level 6th 7th 8th.

  205. Greenwichgooner

    Nov 29, 2012, 17:24 #28765

    I have bad news. Platini is just floating ideas as UEFA want to rethink the Europa league, as many clubs find it onerous travelling and playing on thurs when have a game at the weekend etc. The chances of a 64 team CL are apparently remote. Doesn't mean the Europa won't be rethought as a concept though, but not much use to Wenger and Gaz. I wish we'd signed Baines. Wenger was making complimentary noises about Fellaini, but no doubt would offer some undervalued amount for him in Jan, if at all. Pod only seems up for the big games don't you think?

  206. Gare Kekeke

    Nov 29, 2012, 17:19 #28764

    A point at an Everton side who are one of our rivals for 4th place is a decent result. Bearing in mind that the current league leaders (who one regular poster said last summer that they will be our rivals for 4th place) lost at Goodison Park in the opening weekend this season, then it’s a decent result. Not great but decent. But Villa away was a wasted chance. The forthcoming homes games against Swansea & West Brom will be very interesting. But knowing this current side, you just don’t know what to expect. A & F, take a bow for that great comment. Up The Arsenal!

  207. Markymark

    Nov 29, 2012, 17:05 #28763

    Can't totally agree with yuo, blaming Sagna for a hospital ball, this only happenened due to a misplaced pass from Ramsey, I had allready witnesses him facing our goal in OUR penalty area trying to dribble out of trouble and giving the ball away, a trait that carried on thru the game, most passes misplaced and giving cheap possesion to the toffees. He tries hard but has not got the ability we need for a team challenging to win things (sic ) What is the latest on Diaby, his name has been removed from the sick bay totally.

  208. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Nov 29, 2012, 16:48 #28762

    @ Allo Allo tout le monde, you say it in jest but it's backed up by Adam's recent comments that Wenger told him a couple of years ago that it was so easy to manage them on match days because they just took over. Wenger was an innovator back in the 90s with his training methods and diet etc but never had to be a good matchday manager, now his poor substitutions, lack of motivation etc have been exposed and he's been shown up to be a poor one. What's more, the strengths he did have, have been caught up with and eclipsed. He's got nothing more to offer.

  209. Mark

    Nov 29, 2012, 16:29 #28761

    Just when you think Wengers 4th place trophy is in doubt along comes a knight riding over the hill in shining armour namely Platini who has proposed 7 clubs in the CL.Even Wenger cant cock up finishing 7th can he?.Ed improved display? We got away with a point.Thats were we are now happy with any point.Thats what mid table average teams do

  210. billthered

    Nov 29, 2012, 16:05 #28760

    It's still four points dropped in the last two games,or look at away games in general teams taking points off us who should'nt be on the same pitch.I did say after saturday we will draw against Everton when we should have beaten Villa you see our manager has a very bad habit of looking at the next game instead of the one facing him otherwise Jack would have played saturday.

  211. Mike

    Nov 29, 2012, 15:33 #28758

    Moyes and Wenger - two old campaigners and both well respected - see that despite their success the Chelsea fans are turning on their owner, possibly because they realise now that the owner might not have the clubs best interest at heart - yes he wants to win but at all his unlimited costs - it is his toy thing. Game last night was entertaining - agree that Baines had a blinder - glad to see Rosicky back, now maybe he can replace Ramsey

  212. Whinger_OUT_NOW

    Nov 29, 2012, 15:29 #28757

    So Ed, your expectations too have been lowered now to such an extent that a draw at Everton feels like a win? I wonder if Manure, Citeh etc. would be satisfied with a point at Everton. And you claim we played with more "spereeeet" than at Villa, eh? Unless of course you count that lucky deflection for Walcott's goal and the stone wall penalty they didn't get. Oh and the goal they should have had had Jelavic not blazed it over from a few yards out. How about the number of times they carved us open at will only to shut the gate on themselves with some poor decision making (Pienaar) or finishing? For large swathes of the game, we made them look like Barca. And this is a team whose total wage bill, I bet, is less than half of Whinger FC and whose manager prolly earns less than a quarter of what the spin doctor earns. What was it that AKB's keep talking about small money clubs not being able to compete with big money clubs? Everton embarrassed us for 88 minutes. Still, I suppose after a game in Villa in which "we gave it our all", a draw against Everton is a fantastic result. Who cares that after 14 games, Swansea and West Brom (again, two teams whose wage and manager bill are a fraction of WHinger FC's) are sitting above us.

  213. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Nov 29, 2012, 15:16 #28756

    Just think what Moyes would do if he existed on the resources used by Wenger. Personally, I don’t think it would bode well for Everton as surely they couldn’t afford to spend under what they do already.

  214. Peter Wain

    Nov 29, 2012, 14:28 #28755

    useful point against one of our main rivals. The limitations of our squad are there for all to see and if we get fourth place i am not sure whether it is because of our squad or because the rest of the league is worse that we thought.

  215. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 29, 2012, 14:22 #28754

    A point from an average team is satisfactory considering that's more or less what we are ourselves now.We gave the ball away far to much in the first half with sloppy passing although it did improve in the second.They were certainly more lively and committed than they have been against other teams of late, like a team that has something to prove which is good to see.I think jack was the difference alright full of running getting stuck in, back defending improving with every game.Passing the ball used to be one of our strengths so this sloppiness has to be sorted.With a lot more commitment,motivation,and effort maybe we can get our third or fourth place back.

  216. Joe

    Nov 29, 2012, 14:17 #28753

    Ramsey had a decent enough match?!?!? Did you watch the same match as all the other travelling Gooners? He is a sqaud player at best for us now.

  217. David Moyes

    Nov 29, 2012, 14:08 #28752

    A toothless match report to go with another toothless performance.It seems Kev you have fallen under Wengers spell.You say we played with sprit and commitment thats Wengerspeak for we couldnt pass the ball and hold on to it.I am amazed how many Gooners are still buying into Wengers failed project.I think even Wenger cant believe how easy a ride he gets from our fans.There is a protest on saturday about the board and ticket prices but not a word against Wenger.Losing a 4 goal lead, losing 8-2,7 seasons of failure even Houdini couldnt escape with what Wenger has

  218. Angry Dave

    Nov 29, 2012, 13:42 #28751

    Ha ha thats a great comment from A&F, that 7th place 'trophy' is already 2 years in the making and I hear Gazidis has joined the Euro board too, god it all fits nicely into place...here's to more mediocrity and remember it's PLC now not AFC

  219. Reg

    Nov 29, 2012, 13:32 #28750

    Is it me or is Walcott putting more into his game now he has to earn a new contract? Probably not with us as we all know!

  220. Paul

    Nov 29, 2012, 13:23 #28749

    The arrogance of Wenger comes back to haunt us again.If he had put out last nights team on saturday we may have won at Villa.Last nights draw would only have been good if we had won at Villa.As it was we dropped 4 points in the two games.And in the last 4 games we have picked up 6 out of 12 points.Anything but a defeat is seen as a point gained by Wenger.The one thing that is obvious to everyone but Wenger is we are so short of pace in the team.We are a team of plodders bar Walcott who will be off in 4 weeks.7th place for CL qualification cant come quickly enough for us Gooners

  221. Allo Allo tout le monde

    Nov 29, 2012, 13:20 #28748

    i see Mon plan is working. J'ai lowered all your expectations to such an extent you are pleased with last 2 matches. my bank balance, sorry OUR bank balance is good, i am enjoying my football, my bosses fear me and i really enjoy my own opinion. you know the other night i calculated i have earned £50m since i started travail for arsenal in 1996. Those early years were SO easy. that team managed itself ! i put my glasses on and looked like i was a guru and boy did you all fall for it. today many of you still think i am a guru. but i know of you think i am a Kanguroo. oh well cest la vie. i am loaded so i dont really care. These guys like Fergar, Harry, Jose who have heart attacks about winning. this is not for me. I am French and I need a certain joie de vivre. Au Revoir !

  222. scorp_nib

    Nov 29, 2012, 13:20 #28747

    cant stop laughing at angry and frustrated's comment. brilliant mate..cheers!

  223. Gooner sa

    Nov 29, 2012, 12:31 #28745

    Even have to worry about West Brom in 4th! Was it only eight years ago that Arsenal won 26 league matches? Oh dear!

  224. Danny

    Nov 29, 2012, 12:30 #28744

    Dont know what game you were watching Ed?It was a very lucky point.Everton had a stonewall pen turned down.Yes Walcott scored a good goal but went missing for the following 89 mins.Cazorla and Wilshire were overun in midfield.And Giroud even though he tries he lacks the quality needed to lead the line on his own.Everton had the two best players on the pitch by a mile the excellent Baines(How many Gooners where calling for us to sign him in the summer?he will end up at Utd) and Fellaini.When our best player was Ramsey thats all you need to know.One fact United have lost the same amount of games as we have yet are 12pts clear of us.Why? because they dont draw games.A draw is two points dropped.We should not be happy with draws.A win at Villa a defeat at Everton is better than 2 draws

  225. Tony Evans

    Nov 29, 2012, 12:16 #28743

    Loved A and Fs comment about the possible enlargement of the CL to 64 clubs and that we are on course for the 7th place 'trophy' position that will secure CL football, should the enlargement happen. Gazedis and Wenger will be lobbying hard, I am sure, to make sure that is does happen because then they can spend even less money to get our annual 'trophy'.

  226. Ron

    Nov 29, 2012, 12:12 #28742

    All of the debates aside, a point at Everton is always a good point. Arsenal pick and choose the games they make an effort in sadly. They thought Villa was a formality win. With such a limited team, the arrogance of thinking they can take any opponent lightly staggers.This attitude has stunk the Club out for quite some years and certainly got worse during the time that the deluded notions of greatness were being generated in the 'Barca lite' years took a grip.

  227. Fishpie

    Nov 29, 2012, 11:58 #28741

    I've been critical of Arsenal over recent seasons primarily for two reasons: they keep showing the same repeating defensive frailties and lack of hunger. But fair's fair, while these problems are still there, last night they worked hard all match and defended with passion. It was good to see real effort out there last night. The reality is however that while Wenger and Bould are trying to resolve these long established problems, they also now have an entirely new one to contend with; the players are really struggling to impose their possession game on the opposition. Teams are closing us down at real pace quite deep in our half of the pitch in 2's and 3's cos they know the slow legs of Ramsey/Arteta and the little legs of Carzola just can't get the time or space to keep the ball and link up play. Jack is the only midfield player who has the kind of technique and strength to create space to go forward as he receives the ball . I can see why Diaby is valued by Wenger; with his skill he too can skip away from fast approaching midfield enforcers to move from defence into attack...but he is of course a bit part player at best. Seems to me therefore , more than ever, we need a replacement Diaby in the January transfer market to be able to partner up with Jack to stop us getting boxed in and help us create transitional possession again.

  228. Gooner SA

    Nov 29, 2012, 11:53 #28740

    Satisfactory point? Only because Chelsea drew with Fulham. Guess Arsenal fans had better start caring about The Blues' results!

  229. Angry & Frustrated

    Nov 29, 2012, 11:52 #28739

    I didn't see last nights game, so can't comment on the performance, but am more than happy to accept the Ed's report as a fair reflection of the events that transpired. My observation is that after 14 games played we have 21 points, which still only equates to 1.5 points per game. If this rate continues, and there is no reason to doubt currently that it wont, we will end up with 57 points. Last season the team that finished seventh (Everton) managed 56 points, so we are on course to finish where we are now, seventh. This position, should we remain here, does not even achieve Europa League qualification! The table doesn't lie, so the saying goes, and I think where we are now is a very fair reflection of where we stand in the pecking order. How the mighty have fallen, or more to the point, how Arsenal have been allowed to fall into obscurity is damning on both the board and Wenger. Still lets look on the bright side, by 2014 Platini's plan to introduce a 64 team format for the Champions League means that we are already achieving well in advance-our seventh placed trophy!! That apparently would be the number of clubs from England entitled to enter! Wenger and the board as ever are ahead of the game, and we should be eternally grateful for such foresight heh!!

  230. allybear

    Nov 29, 2012, 11:41 #28738

    Very good article Kevin and im looking at it as a good point earned if a little fortunate! There was more spirit but again too many errors. As i have said in the past Mertasacker is a weak link and although he makes a few good interceptions he is often foung wanting. Stll i live in hope but still feel that with AW it will be more of the same.

  231. John Abrehart

    Nov 29, 2012, 11:38 #28737

    Just a thought, if we had played our strongest team at Villa we may have won. A draw at Everton was fair enough but it could have been 4 points of perhaps 3 instaed of two. After all, they all count!

  232. under acheiver

    Nov 29, 2012, 11:30 #28736

    One thing is guaranteed now that we are dropping so many points and the coveted 4th place trophy is in danegr, the cheque book will come out in January. Pity he never does that when we are in striking distance of coming 1st.