How much longer can this be allowed to go on?

Online Ed: Arsenal given football lesson by Swansea



How much longer can this be allowed to go on?

How many more times?


The only difference between this performance and those against Norwich, Manchester United and Aston Villa this season is that it took place at home. Other than that, the same ingredients were there. A lack of commitment, cohesion and imagination to outwit the opposition, all performed with a lack of urgency that indicated the players didn’t really care that much.

This is what you get when a few things combine. The culture of complacency is one. The lack of fresh ideas is another. Allowing the club’s best players to leave and replacing them with those of lesser quality is a third. Sending out the message that third place is an achievement rather than a failure is a fourth. Not utilizing all the money available to strengthen the playing squad is a fifth. Using the money you do spend inefficiently is a final one that will do for now. There are plenty of other problems, for which both the majority owner, the board of directors and the manager are culpable.

I suppose the only chink of light we have to cling onto is the admittedly remote possibility that Arsene Wenger will not be offered a contract extension if the decline continues. Fourth place is of course still possible to achieve and one can only imagine the signing of Huntelaar and Pepe Reina in January, as has been widely speculated, will improve things. But at the moment, believing Arsenal will finish fifth or lower is entirely plausible, as they are playing some very mediocre football and the truly impressive performances this season have been few and far between. In truth, the club probably need to buy six players rather than two in January, with both defence and midfield crying out for improvement.

The Black Scarf March in protest at the board and the direction the club is taking was well attended. I would say there were at least 1000 people on it. It was quite openly stated that this was not to be an anti-Wenger march and a couple of attempts to start such chants were quickly nipped in the bud. Ultimately, the board, in theory, are the ones who decide if the manager is doing a good enough job for his £7.75 million a year, so if they are making the decision that they are happy with what he is delivering, then they are fair cop for any abuse. However, Arsenal isn’t as simple as that. Wenger has filled a power vacuum that has made him effectively unsackable, so I suspect the only way he can be removed is if, before the contract is extended, his life is made untenable by the majority of supporters. And too many of them will not accept that the manager is too old and stubborn to change his ways. Or they just can’t bring themselves to make things turn ugly.

Swansea, featuring a lot of names I am very unfamiliar with, gave Arsenal a lesson in possession football on their own turf, and the 2-0 scoreline flattered the home side. Well played to them and their manager Michael Laudrup. Quite how Arsenal’s elaborate scouting system failed to pick up Michu is something that needs investigating. Wenger’s team were simply woeful.

There is no point in wasting further words on the performance. The only thing I am unclear about is why so many Gooners believe Arsene Wenger is the man to halt a decline he is responsible for. There is an article in the new issue of The Gooner by Bernard Dowling stating that in any organization, when someone has been employed for a long time, their performance can start to dip. Effectively, they go stale. This is what has happened with the current Arsenal manager. It is my belief that, even with this group of players, another manager could get more out of them, through changing things and re-invigorating the team. There were hopes that Steve Bould’s promotion might be the change that would turn fortunes around, but it hasn’t happened, and who knows why that is. The long and short of it is simple. It can’t go on and people need to start making their feelings known inside the stadium as well as out, and realize that it is not only the board that are the problem.

There are still people out there who believe that Arsene knows best. Surely, their number has to be dwindling this season. Is there an argument for his retention? Sometimes in life, change is needed. Perhaps it might not to be too late to salvage this season if it were made now and a new manager able to spend in January. Sadly, that isn’t going to happen though and we’ll see a good few more matches like this before we can kiss goodbye to this wretched season.

A new issue of The Gooner went on sale yesterday and will be available at the West Brom game next weekend. It can also be bought online here. There is also an e-version of the issue available to read on your ipad/tablet/iphone/android. The app is free and you can download the first few pages of each issue as a taster before deciding whether or not to purchase the whole thing.


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  1. jeff wright

    Mar 02, 2015, 17:16 #67846

    The figures are goals scored per minute Chris, as you can see Aquero although he scored less goals last term than Suarez had a better average. Oliver doesent appear on the list so I don't know what his average was . He has done well since his return in the Prem on goals per game but only scored that one goal at Poundlands against a top side and has flopped in other big games such as the spuds away and of course had a mare against Monaco in the CL. I stick with my view that he misses too many chances,as he did again yesterday, one from three scored, and that against top sides you after do better than this because you don't get as many chances as you do against lower case ones. That's why he becomes frustrated and gets all moody and broody as he did against the spuds away.Albeit they are not a top side but are proving to be more resilient lately at home doing what Wenger has never managed to do ,to give motor mouth Mourinho a good hiding. 4 points off Arsene as well this season for Poch ,you couldn't make it up.

  2. Chris

    Mar 02, 2015, 16:04 #67839

    Jeff - I don't know whether you are deliberately being obtuse to try and get away from the facts, or whether that's just the way you are.. But anyway - yes, I brought up Alexis as he is generally considered our leading atacking light and is our top scorer - it was a fair point to make that Giroud compares favourably with him in terms of chance conversion, even though i qualified it by saying that they were different types of players - so there was no need for you to bundle in stating the bleeding obvious, esp as i had already alluded to it, and trying to make out I was being misleading "again", when I had gone out of my way to avoid being so. Your underhand tactics are very tedious, Jeff. As for your latest post - the point I was responding to was the one yo made about Giroud having a low chance conversion ratio -which isn't true. I don't actually know what the figures you've poste d for last season are - there's the total number of goals they scored, and then another figure - what's that? Anyway, the number of goals scored isn't actually relevant to the argument in question, which is whether Giroud has a decent chance conversion rate or not.

  3. HowardL

    Mar 02, 2015, 15:34 #67836

    I'm also pleased for Cesc. He supported us for years in the face of Denilson, Almunia, Bendtner....etc

  4. jeff wright

    Mar 02, 2015, 15:19 #67835

    Er Chris you were the one who brought Sanchez into it not me ! I replied to what you posted regarding their stats so if Sanchez ones are not relevant then why did you use them for a comparison? Here is a list of the Prems best strikers last season -we have to wait until the end of this one to see how Olly shapes up compared with Costa and Aquero ,etc. My point though was about goals scored against top sides. I expect strikers that play up front for us ,given the chances they get to score around 15 goals or so in the Prem, mainly in home games against the riff raff. I do know that Poldolski and Giroud had poor away form and neither scored many goals against top 4 sides home or away.Danny Boy has been disappointing given the number of games he has played and all of the hype about how he would do better than at United.... Sergio Aguero (26 goals, 75.8) Luis Suarez (29 goals, 99.6) Daniel Sturridge (23 goals, 107.3) Alvaro Negredo (23 goals, 107.5) Robin van Persie (17 goals, 115.5) Jermain Defoe (10 goals, 117.3) Edin Dzeko (21 goals, 133.3) Emmanuel Adebayor (13 goals, 138.2) Loic Remy (13 goals, 144.5) Wilfried Bony (20 goals, 159.9) Yaya Toure (22 goals, 165.2) Romelu Lukaku (14 goals, 168.2)

  5. Chris

    Mar 02, 2015, 12:11 #67821

    Jeff - No need to be an arse. We know all that but I didn't want to state the bleeding obvious which is why I said "yes there are caveats about playing style". I suspect Alexis creates more difficult chances for himself, and also tries more 'speculative' shots from distance, whereas Giroud is presented with more opportunities in and around the six yard box - is that what you were trying to say? Nonetheless, the overall conversion rate of one in five for Giroud across the season is considerably better than the 1 in 7 you selected to try to paint a misleading picture. (Maybe if I can get the chance later I'll dig out equivalent stats for other strikers later - will be an interesting comparison in which I suspect Giroud might fare better than you think)

  6. Badarse

    Mar 02, 2015, 10:38 #67810

    Good old Fabregas, won his first medal in his first season back in England in 2015, Man United Killer. Am genuinely pleased for the lad, though just think that stat could have been massaged to appear even more impressive. Had he not perhaps burnt his bridges, (Stamford Bridge is fireproof on account of the pact with old Lucifer), he could have returned before Mesut, in place of him, then he would have won an even more prestigious one last May. My daughter has just returned from Barbados goonercolesyboy, so know the attraction through her stories. My query about Benidorm was I thought you and jeff were doing a tribute to 'Cliff', Summer Holiday thing. By the way, I posted recently remembering a NLD game I saw in perhaps 1962, when David 'Doggy' Court, newly arrived on the scene, scored a brace in a 4-4 draw. There is a profile of him on Arsenal. Com, where when asked the highlight of his career stated, 'Playing for Arsenal Football Club, as simple as that. I still get a buzz when I walk into the Marble Halls'. A nice lad.

  7. jeff wright

    Mar 02, 2015, 9:33 #67809

    Your stats are again misleading Chris,Olly is a number 9 outright frontman whereas Sanchez is being played in a midfield role by Wenger .Olly gets more chances laid on for him than the Chilean does so Olly's stats are entitled to be better. You haveto compare Giroud's stats with other strikers to work out how he compares with them. My guess off the top of my head is that our blokes are worse against the other top sides strikers in the big crunch games that count when the medals are won over his time with us.

  8. Chris

    Mar 02, 2015, 8:09 #67808

    Sorry, for the typo - should have been 12 from 75 for Alexis - the ratio was correct though!

  9. Chris

    Mar 02, 2015, 7:58 #67807

    Jeff - You can't just pluck out the last two games and suggest that gives a fair impression of Giroud's effectiveness. Thus season, he has scored 9 goals from 44 attempts (ratio 0.20) whereas Sanchzx has scored 9 from 44 attempts (ratio 0.16). Yes there are caveats re playing style, but the bare stats don't look too bad for Oliver....

  10. Danny

    Mar 02, 2015, 1:09 #67806

    The Arsenal beat a crap Everton team today and were poor we need a new coach. Wenger and Bould need to go

  11. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 01, 2015, 22:54 #67805

    jw, jj, yes the wenger syndrome, maybe it hasn't taken to long for reality to set in with Sanchez, and maybe the AKB's have finally realised things don't look as rosey in wengers garden of Eden as they used to after another low key win with no whoopees and boners, maybe reality is setting in there too at last, with the brothers grim sitting there today looking like strangers and with old father time himself sitting there looking lost and like death warmed up.

  12. Bard

    Mar 01, 2015, 21:34 #67804

    Great win today. We are now just off the shoulder of the top teams. i see great things ahead. I see an era of domination. Wenger can manage Arsenal into his 80'sor even his 90's or into eternity. I have grown to love 4th place.

  13. jeff wright

    Mar 01, 2015, 20:38 #67803

    jj Sanchez has found out what Arshavin did that Wenger is not the great manager with big ambitions that he thought that he was. Ozil the Turkish playboy has never bothered to even try and pretend that he is enjoying his time with Wenger . When you look at Wenger sitting there tensed up wringing his hands with a silent po-faced Bould looking like the grim -reaper along side and glum faced players like Chesnay and co it is obviously not happy families these days . Nights like last Tuesday's one only make for more misery in the camp.

  14. jjetplane

    Mar 01, 2015, 20:25 #67802

    Nice one JW and poor old Sanchez looks as tired as a Chilean miner and who wouldn't carrying that lot for a season. he would do better at the scousers - they work harder. He would appreciate that. imagine the misery of playing fiddle to the likes of Giroud. AKBs do not seem overly convinced by the win today. Where be thy pride and joy at such leisurely feasts? ......

  15. jeff wright

    Mar 01, 2015, 19:46 #67801

    Giroud had 3 good chances today and missed 2 of them so if you add the 4 misses v Monaco that is 1 goal from 7 chances in our last two games against ordinary oppo at home.That is not top draw by any reckoning. He needs too many chances to score and against top sides you don't get that. He's a goodish striker but not a great one, great ones would score more goals from the chances that he gets. Oh dear me,Sanchez is not smiling anymore he looks a shadow of the player he was in the first half of the season.The Wenger syndrome is obviously affecting him. The stories about why Poldolski was never played much by Arsene that it was down to him being critical of Wenger's tactics in the changing room look likely to be true. I liked the one where Wenger infuriated by the German international's comments on the lack of tactics came into the changing room and chucked a box of toy soldiers on floor crying out,ze's are the British and French armies at Waterloo ! Then asking Pold ,do you want to play soldiers ? Pold replied,ja can I be the British? ! Le Emperor was not amused.

  16. jeff wright

    Mar 01, 2015, 19:27 #67800

    That's not how it looked when we lost to Swindon and Leeds in it Jamerson and you are old enough to remember that.Nor the ones that we won with GG either I still have fond memories of Charlie Nic scoring his brace v a good Liverpool side at Wemberley. So cut out the bullshine. Of course Arsene lost both League Cup finals he contested, one to the chavs and the other to relegated Brum. The chavs like City last season have bigger fish to fry anyway but players want medals as well as imaginary 4th place ones .Even our players so let's hope they defend the trophy they won last season at Old Trafford because realistically it is the only one they will win.The FAC is only like the LC a Ropey Cup class one but has more history attached .Wenger 's done well in it but he has 19 years to do so unlike some other managers. ... I should point out again that I am not going away on my break until the 27th !

  17. Man United Killer

    Mar 01, 2015, 18:43 #67799

    Jamerson let's just ignore the fact that you would have been singing a completely different song if Lord Wenger's men had lifted that trophy.And yes it's a trophy

  18. goonercolesyboy

    Mar 01, 2015, 18:42 #67798

    Fine lines Badarse, Giroud could or should have scored three on Wednesday and this battering from the media would have been unfounded, still he didn't, we lost and the yo yo of supporting Arsenal carries on. He may not be the ultimate answer but he is useful to what we can do at the moment. Benidorm? No thanks. Barbados for me at the next international break.

  19. Badarse

    Mar 01, 2015, 18:23 #67797

    The wicker man jj has spoken. Arsenal winning must seriously eat you up buddy. Read a chapter of Camus, that'll put a smile on your face. Still missing Ron? Then of course jeff is going away for a week-was it something you said?

  20. jeff wright

    Mar 01, 2015, 18:20 #67796

    A win will be desperately needed in every game now colesyboy with Liverpool now on our case for 3rd or 4th and United as well with those desperados still to play us And we have the Chavs to play as well .So as you rightly say the win today was a desperately needed one. Wthout wanting to be sounding negative about it wil will have to play alot better than today against the better sides.To me though leaving aside the obviously good result it was tedious affair a game of two sides never making one pass when 5 will do,anyone who thinks that Martinez should replace Wenger must enjoy watching paint dry! Home advantage gained us the day as it usually does against sides in the lower part of the table and Ospina had to be on his toes a bit too much for my liking but did well. I suspect that he is likely to be busy until the season is done with the claims of our midfield being stronger now looking like just another Coq and bull story.Arsene only got to his feet afer Rosicky scored the second he looked nervous with the ball flying about around our goal and Ospina havingto make desperation tackles and saves ,the second goal relieved the tension though,a case of phew! So on to desperate QPR's little gaff under the floodlights midweek and a different sort of test for our lot, that could be a little nervy wtih both sides desperate for the 3 points. ,

  21. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 01, 2015, 18:19 #67795

    Man United Killer, you can be sure it wasn't missed not by anybody, it's just a case of some following and thinking as their leader does.

  22. jjetplane

    Mar 01, 2015, 18:10 #67794

    Everton were awful which is what Arsene FC need to get back to third though well imagine that will be occupied by Liverpool come the end of season with the other Mancs and the Wok bunny squad fighting over another virtual piss in the football wind. Wonderful walk and just the ten miles today before the rains come in. Life is delightful if you still have a bit of movement but anyway I will leave Brian to talk to himself for a week on here or until another insignificant implosion. Do you ever see any football in the flesh? Hilarious! Have a good growl. You have apparently earned it. ps Just heard Wrighty say 'Ar..... were there for the taking' which seems to be the view of most pundits .... oh dearie me.

  23. Man United Killer

    Mar 01, 2015, 18:05 #67793

    Just in case someone missed it, Fabragas just won his first trophy on his England return.Didn't have to wait 10 years.

  24. Badarse

    Mar 01, 2015, 18:02 #67792

    gonercolesyboy, Olly scoring would have helped him overcome the miserable Wednesday performance-strikers need to score and a goal puts all else into perspective. Glad to see my main man Tom come on and get one. It was a gruelling game, but these are the ones we need to win, even if by grinding out a result. We had the advantage of an extra day's rest and a home game, they had the belief a good Euro win brings, whilst we had the reverse. Am off for a Ruby tonight as my grandson's team came from a goal down at HT against the team currently top and won 3-2, so a double as both the sides won, ha ha. You should see how wide my smile is fella. By the way, you haven't been out secretly trying to book a week in Benidorm have you?

  25. Tony pepe

    Mar 01, 2015, 18:00 #67791

    I wholeheartedly agree mate. It's all about positives and negatives. I know where I stand. Good on ya colesy.

  26. goonercolesyboy

    Mar 01, 2015, 17:14 #67790

    The problem I have on here is when we win, which is often there is always a negative spin, they hit the post, it wasn't a penalty , he was offside etc etc instead of we won, played well, played ok, played poorly but still won. But like today. A win was desperately needed and it wasn't about the performance.

  27. SMITHY

    Mar 01, 2015, 16:55 #67789

    Good win- average performance. Midfield still not quite working right. Glad BFG WAS DROPPED,hope Gabriel can adjust to the frentic pace, better prospect for Arsenal's future. City can be caught, if the team and its manager start to prepare for each game looking at the oppositions strategy as a starting point.

  28. Badarse

    Mar 01, 2015, 16:31 #67788

    See, as I said E/G, we perhaps are not so far apart. People see mostly the same signs and signals, then personal interpretations take a hold. I cannot be easily swayed, though used to constantly sway on the North Bank, I've even been known to sashay across the terracing, though my Cossack dance routine is now best left to the Online Gooner Virtual Summer End of the Pier Show-my knees cannot take the strain. Jamerson that third place is occupied again.

  29. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 01, 2015, 16:23 #67787

    Don't think any of us can do any more than come up with a plausible theory, so I'll take that as a compliment. The land swell offers a clearer view than the forest, at least.

  30. Badarse

    Mar 01, 2015, 16:14 #67786

    Oh dear, Arsenal have beaten Ron's team, hope jj doesn't jump off the cliff, then again...@maguiresbridge you are quite funny, in the nicest possible way, ha ha. As for your comments E/G, all very plausible, but you make bridges to fill the gaps of info, and they always support your overview, lots of vague interpretations, lots and lots, but this only builds up a land swell of feeling amongst the WOBs, others just interpret what they think they know slightly differently. Robin said AW can hide in his part of the forest anytime.

  31. jjetplane

    Mar 01, 2015, 15:03 #67785

    Sounds like the Wok only gets busy towards half time. Cue JAMERsON looking very masculine while listening to the Pet Shop Boys and eating a prawn sandwich while the seats emptied around him 20 mins ago. Oh well - we're off for a walk on the cliffs! Meet on the ledge and all that!

  32. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 01, 2015, 14:59 #67784

    Exeter 71363, good post, that's why one or two have such a fascination with arseblog that's exactly what happens on there, they start talking about everything except Arsenal from broken fridge freezers, planting runner beans, tomatoes, how they slept that night, all the b****x under the sun you name it, obviously that's what some would like to start up on here (one or two have tried to no avail) but others can see through it and have more sense preferring to concentrate on what the blogs about and the real problems at the club and we all know what it and they are, so keep up the good work everybody.

  33. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 01, 2015, 14:18 #67783

    Hiccup, in other words he should take his own advice and man up.

  34. Bard

    Mar 01, 2015, 14:03 #67782

    Some interesting posts today must have something to do with it being a rest day. I like Exeters idea of going round in circle's, although I prefer the idea of spiralling out of control slowly but surely. Over to Westie for the odds on Wenger seeing out the remaining years of his contract. Nothing will happen this season but one imagines that the writing is on the wall now after the debacle on Wednesday. I have noticed that the previously psychophantic media have begun questioning whether he can take the club any further. Hope you have good holiday Jeff and come back refreshed and razor sharp for more jousts with Colseybollix and the rest of the North Korean contingent.

  35. jjetplane

    Mar 01, 2015, 13:54 #67780

    Liverpool back from away Europa and beating Citeh! bloody AKB computations! Personally think the BFG should be playing 'cause it's more fun now! Bloody crowed up in the 'attic of dirty money.' Like Billy Smarts never went away. Rodgers looking good and young now! ha ha!

  36. Torbay gooner

    Mar 01, 2015, 13:14 #67779

    Mertesacker dropped at last!!

  37. jjetplane

    Mar 01, 2015, 12:44 #67778

    'singing the praises of the Nazi party' 'dirty Russian/Arab money' people on here with their agendas .... Excellent post EG re 'the song remains the same' and Stan and Arsene are a marriage made in 'dirty money' heaven as neither know ****-all about football. One of them reckons he has been in the game for thirty years. Bet he never kicked a ball when he was a kid. Coke heads and dope heads - is that all the AKBs have got? Smoke on it! ps Missing RON!

  38. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 01, 2015, 12:41 #67777

    Those mitigating factors are referenced by my words on context, Badarse, as I'm sure you understood. I don't hold him responsible for all AFC's ills but it is not simplistic to look from then to now and see a constant. That's logical deduction. Possibly it is you who sees more trees than there are as you wish for there to be a forest of doubt to hide him in - 'maybe he is, maybe he isn't'. It is still possible in the modern game to coach defensive discipline. It's still possible for a manager to intervene during a match and at least try and change the way it's going. AW doesn't because he believes the players should work it out for themselves - as they once did under him to great success, though always caught short in Europe where up against better tactics. As you say, different times now, different players. That requires a different approach. He has not and will not take it.

  39. Badarse

    Mar 01, 2015, 12:39 #67776

    Afternoon jj, there was me going to say you were quite a clever lad despite posted attempts to prove the opposite, and you went and 'weed' in the sandpit again. No misplaced nostalgia chum, it is all well placed and in a box under my bed, it is in fact yourself who is locked-in to yesterday, but I have the key, it's a very thin one because it's a skeleton key, but you can use it if you want. You are on the right road-which is the one out of town-hang on, those Romans built the best roads back in the days of Highbury, ahh, those were the days; never was a bad Roman, hang on again, there is Abramovich, oh no, I'm back on that gigantic roundabout once more.

  40. jjetplane

    Mar 01, 2015, 12:22 #67775

    Fun this Liver/Citeh game on the radio oh oh If liver win I will smile. If Citeh win I will smile. Who else are playing today - 'bout time the Toffees got a little march on. Up the proper Arsene. Hoy JAMERSON you really tough man who just lurves Arses's little bunnies skipping sideways. Anyone else on here apart from BADDIe ever kicked a football in earnest? He almost as good as Camus! ..... What i also love about this site is that it is the WoBs who are the nice guys and JW (honourary) is a very popular chap with oodles to say about the present/continuous (groan) er WOK Wanderers. Still loving Kev's article - that was legendary in the annuals of. What d'you reckon BADDIE me old apostle with watered eyes in compression of misplaced nostalgia .....

  41. Badarse

    Mar 01, 2015, 12:04 #67774

    E/G and KC. Perfectly summed up and clearly understood. I too am not a long way off those positions and never have been. If you went back through the archives you might discover that. I do not fully adhere to the simplistic view that he is responsible for all AFC's ills, on or off the pitch, though he might be for many of them, but then again perhaps not. I do think he has had a damnable job and done it largely speaking in a dignified manner befitting AFC, the essence rather than this corporate beast we see before us. I also believe he possibly was the only one to achieve what has been achieved, and you can add any name to a list, AF, JM etc. I also plead mitigating factors in that he lost his foil in DD, my wife is my keel, possibly DD was his? The financial collapse muddying the move from Highbury. The arrival of dirty Russian money, then dirty Arab money complicated a straightforward approach and game plan. Sky becoming bloated and pouring money into football, and the PL taking the 'king's shilling' and changing the once proud EC into a squalid money-go-round for clubs in poll position-it's why 4th place is so important in keeping us as a club in that same position. Others disagree but I share the club's view. Never finding a leader on the pitch. England has changed my friends. The insular and narrow thinking, which was endemic with natives of these shores has evaporated. The good with the bad has altered. In the Invincible era and before we had, Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Keown, PV4, Bergy et al, captain's and/or leaders every one of them. Now they are different types of people with differing codes of practise, and I am upset at this as well, but am powerless. Right now I am focussed on my grandson's match and Arsenal's, it is enough.

  42. jeff wright

    Mar 01, 2015, 11:48 #67773

    Thanks for the advice Westie, but I'm not going until the 27h of this month and I have the minister for war in tow ! So the good news is that I will be posting for awhile longer on here ! I will be having a few small cautious punts myself on the Cheltenham fun fest avoiding those those nailed on certs at short prices that the bookies love. I tend mainly to bet in the Tote Pools these days on Jackpots,Place Pots and the Scoop 6 .I had the first 5 winners in that once a few years back and needed the FAV in the last at oddly enough Cheltenham, although not the Festival meeting, it was a 9/4 shot and never showed up in the race running as though it was on Mogadon ,which it most likely was, the race was won by a 20-1 chance . Anyway ,good luck with those percentage bets ,you are going to need it!

  43. brett dadson

    Mar 01, 2015, 11:44 #67772

    nothing will change until kroenke leaves, he is just not interested wenger has been clueless for years

  44. KC

    Mar 01, 2015, 11:40 #67771

    EG - Spot on its the same mistakes same weaknesses season after season. Badarse at some point Arsene has to take responsibility he now has the money but the obvious comical Sunday league defending continues. We can not go forward if you don't take the defensive side of the game seriously, Pers the keeper situation are clear example that Wenger has a major block here. Look at the centre halves, holding midfielders and keepers Wenger has purchased I just don't think he appreciates the importance of football when you do not have possession of the football.

  45. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 01, 2015, 11:25 #67769

    Badarse, you've said before I just blame AW for everything, so I'm going to try and explain my position here. I do see Arsenal exist within a wider footballing context - an increasingly money driven, vulgar one, and football exists within a wider society - ditto. AW just works within this world. What he is responsible for is the footballing side of AFC. So when Arsenal tear through a team like Villa, of course he takes the credit - he's brought those players in, he's coached them to play those fine passing moves together, he's provided them with that platform to express themselves. But when Arsenal are losing games in the same manner they were 7 or more years ago, and all the players are different, I can see what the constant is. For a long time I hoped it would change, but it's been clear to me for a while now it won't. And the evidence just keeps on mounting. That's why I believe a new coach is needed, as that's the only way it will change. I think this is a perfectly rational, coherent and clear stance to have.

  46. Westlower

    Mar 01, 2015, 11:11 #67768

    In response to newspaper stories intimating that Josh Kroenke would like to install his friend Thierry Henry as the next managerial appointment in the summer, SKYBET have reduced TH's odds from 18/1 to 12/1. For sure, results over the next 4 games will go a long way in deciding the fate of AW. @Jeff, Well done in winning the place pot at Donny. It's always sweeter winning when going your own way & swimming against the tide. Don't go and spoil it by picking up a nasty STD in downtown Bendidorm. Nothing worse than watching your best friend Dick Head, festering & shriveling up, before eventually dropping off! For non racing peoples information there are many famous jockeys who are Gooners, including, A.P. McCoy, Ryan & Jamie Moore & Frankie Dettori. Now, back to my Cheltenham studies, so many runners, so many races, so little time.

  47. Badarse

    Mar 01, 2015, 10:55 #67767

    E/G I noticed my name missing from the accolades-naturally. I think you miss the wood because the trees are in the way, it happens regularly with yourself. I also understand that you find it difficult to let go and step back from the edge, but that is OK as long as respect is in there somewhere. Those who want to step away, and you in acknowledging it. You did pose an open question, 'what else is there to discuss'. Well no one has discussed individual performances from a really important game, let alone any suggestions why. What the ramifications may be, what might be done to alleviate it's reoccurrence etc. People just go for the jugular, 'It is AW's fault-hang him!' and, 'Where are the cowardly AKB's?' It is kindergarten stuff, so I won't play, I am going to the sand pit to make sand castles-oh no! jj has 'weed' in it again!'

  48. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 01, 2015, 10:44 #67766

    Great analogy Hiccup and good stuff from Gaz and JimmyGooner. Obviously those constantly moaning about the cyclical nature of themes on here are themselves constantly repeating themselves. Perhaps they could suggest what else we talk about on an Arsenal board, other than the current goings on at Arsenal? Or should all comments be restricted to variations of: "That was a bit unfortunate. Still, there was nothing that could be done as it was all due to XYZ external factors, so man up, forget it and move on". I think there are sites like that already.

  49. Badarse

    Mar 01, 2015, 10:31 #67765

    Wow! What good, positive, and intelligent posts so far...someone will spoil it all soon, ha ha. John F, thank you so much for the advice, my wife is more computer literate-I am strictly a one finger job, man-so she will try your suggestion when she finishes putting the dubbin on my boots, grandkids are busy. Message to goonercolesyboy, I see the man inside, try to display it a little more obviously for others to see-your views demand a wider audience. Hiccup, good morning buddy. You are so right in your statement of course. The thing is if I met a friend who just wanted to sing the praises of a Nazi party, he would cease to be a friend. If he wanted to pick out one or two aspects of their core belief I might try to dissuade him and explain what I considered to be his oversights or oversimplifications. I hate to give up, it is a serious personal flaw, and on occasions has got me into trouble down the years-I am improving though and should have mastered this trait when I grow up. This means I would persevere until I reasoned and then said, enough. I would avoid this subject in the future when in his/her company. I am always ready for a political discussion but can pretty much deduce a person's position in a statement or two. I also know it is virtually impossible to encourage and achieve a reversal of thought in most. I think the best I can do is appear a sensible well-informed chap with alternative views. At least that way someone may respect my position even if not sharing it, with an outside chance of possibly amending the most strident of aspects. Where I live many are swerving towards UKIP, I couldn't change their views, though would challenge any who gave it large in my presence, but that is a territorial thing, so is Arsenal!

  50. KC

    Mar 01, 2015, 10:20 #67764

    The only consolation from Wednesday is if we go out of the competition it hurts Wenger as he has never won it and hurts the board financially. For me I appreciate that we can not win it due to obvious weaknesses so the plus of staying in it for another round is purely financial. Therefore because of my dislike of the board I can find some weird comfort that their hurt may just may be somewhere near mine as this going nowhere situation continues. Plus when we perform so ridiculously poorly I find I am less angry and upset, Groundhog Day comes to mind. A massive question arises, under Ferguson utd often turned up and played their best football at the big matches the absolute opposite applies to Wenger we often just don't perform at all very worrying.

  51. JimmyGooner

    Mar 01, 2015, 9:55 #67763

    @goonercolesyboy - That's obviously your prerogative and I certainly won't criticise you for it. I'm much the same in actual fact. However, your stance is therefore surely as repetitive as those you criticise for being repetitive is it not? And it's as much their right to do so as it is yours not to. You also have the right to criticise their views if you wish of course - I'm not disputing that. I'm merely highlighting that criticising people for repeating the same things again and again without saying anything new yourself is actually a bit hypocritical. In my own opinion of course which is probably as unimportant to you as everyone else on here is to Arsenal. And so we go round again... Have a good day and here's to an Arsenal victory this afternoon.

  52. Hiccup

    Mar 01, 2015, 9:51 #67762

    Morning baddie/gaz. The govt and PM come under heavy criticism for certain policies, whichever party is in power. And what we have are daily news and political programmes with reporters scrutinising, probing and asking awkward questions to those concerned. What we don't have is Jeremy Paxman telling the viewer that the Tories are in power for 5 years so just accept it for what it is. We don't have political correspondent Nick Robinson telling us that we need to support and get behind the present govt. I don't see the newsreaders defending Cameron because who else is there? So you're not happy with the way our country operates at home and abroad in certain dealings. Do you keep these feelings to yourself or openly talk to others about them? Would it be ok for someone to tell you to stop moaning about it and accept it for what it is, because you don't have the power to do anything about it? It is what it is so shut the **** up, unless you've got owt positive to say. Would you be happy to be talked to like that? Because that's all colesyboy has to offer. So he's bored of listening to jeff and despises him for it. As Jimmy Gooner says, if it's detrimenting your life to such an extent, skip over it. It's hardly a life threatening change like the govt increasing the tax on his beer? There's a couple of posters on here I don't even read and skip over, because i know what's coming. But I do love Westie, and yourself of course Mr B! You want to get your grandkids to polish your boots. That's what apprentices are for.

  53. John F

    Mar 01, 2015, 9:44 #67761

    Hi baddie go into control panel then system and security/action centre/ find and fix problems.Sometimes this works for computer problems.

  54. Badarse

    Mar 01, 2015, 9:22 #67760

    I understand that Gaz, a simple remit as you said. I am new to all these bowls of technological minestrones, why my computer keeps jumping as I type the letter 'T', which is very frustrating as I have to delete and retype often and sometimes lose an entire post, and I don't know why it does so. I firstly tested the water here and was amazed at the locked in mind sets of those wanting to oust AW and the level of insults and poison which surrounded quite a number. I found myself trying to explain and 'educate' people to my way of thinking, and at least wanted to convey a message which broadly speaking was thus, 'I am not a blockhead, I have played and understand footie, I have coached, managed and skippered sides, I am aged so not a young JCL, have a pedigree in terms of my support, and am interested in the following, etc'. It was a portrayal of credentials to substantiate and give credence to my views. I have been character-assassinated constantly. Going out on a limb in order to explain these things just invited personal abuse, c'est la vie, I do court it. I have been around the block in life,but have news for you, it is just a gigantic roundabout-you keep going around and around, unless you say, 'Enough!' It's mainly why I refused to be painted into a corner with E/G. Having stated innumerable times my personal position and reasons, I have said, 'Enough!' Do I need to keep justifying my views for every new arrival about one subject-the same old, same old? In answer to your fundamental question I offer this, I am far from happy with my country, in many of it's dealings both at home and abroad. Walk away from it? Stay to improve it? It is something quite beautiful and deserves saving, at least improving. That I feel is the basic flaw with social ills, people abdicate, wash their hands of the angst and confrontational implications, then walk away. Someone staying is the difficult more testing part, surely? Rather than the 'Beau Geste' objective of trying to change and improve, the fall back position is at least to say here is another view, and that could at least add balance, or explain why.

  55. Gaz

    Mar 01, 2015, 8:38 #67759

    Morning B. Surely there's a very easy answer to what we think is a slightly complicated issue? If you're not happy with a site because the views don't mirror your own then why not just move to a site that does? I've no real problem with anyone on this site other than when they start telling other posters what/what not to do. I like this site because there are posters I can really identify with-if they all stopped posting I probably would too. It really is as simple as that for me and I guess I find it hard to accept that others don't see it as simy as that...

  56. John F

    Mar 01, 2015, 8:38 #67758

    The be careful what you wish for AKB mantra, may be about to come true according to Arsenal News Now which quotes Daily mail,Josh Wiggie jnr is considering sacking Wenger and putting Henry in at the end of the season.Again this is a Mail story so a large pinch of salt is needed. Where does the pinch of salt saying come from ?

  57. Badarse

    Mar 01, 2015, 8:15 #67757

    Morning Gaz. Well it is easy to tear down than build. I know all/most-as they affect me-of the traffic problems concerning this tiny island, Great Britain, how to deal with them is the difficult part. In other words sniping at anyone, your own boss, an 'opponent' on here, the Prime Minister, and so on is relatively easy, how you might perform in those positions, or in your own life is a different story. goonercolesyboy is a fan of AFC, he has had dialogue, explained and lost his cool once or twice, he perhaps wishes he hadn't, but he'll do for me-an Arsenal fan who gets annoyed and upset with criticisms of his team is perhaps a fundamental requirement of being a passionate fan-passion has been mentioned once or twice too, dude. In a frustrating situation it occurs. The same old trite arguments are offered. Demands of, 'What do you say to that? Defend it!' It is very confrontational. In real life, face to face exchanges are very polite, not on these poor excuses for conversation-a new report has recently concluded that quite emphatically. This and other cyber exchanges is wide open to abuse, why only yesterday the Webed stepped in, and not before time. In real life an approach of a rude insulting manner would be asking for a 'slap', wouldn't you agree? So much must be absorbed and filtered, occasionally our filters aren't up to much, leeway must be given. Did my Swiss roll ramblings make any sense to you? I would be interested in a view. Big game today and am putting the dubbin on my boots right now.

  58. Gaz

    Mar 01, 2015, 7:46 #67756

    I just don't (thankfully) 'get' supporters like Goonercolesboy who get off on telling real fans what they should/shouldn't say yet offer nothing other than bland, unimaginative, unambitious almost cult like support for Wenger with no actual argument against those of us looking for a real positive change of direction at the Club! Weird...

  59. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 28, 2015, 23:31 #67755

    JimmyGooner....why? I accept the ups and downs of supporting Arsenal football club. I don't need to write a piece for the sake of it.

  60. Badarse

    Feb 28, 2015, 21:12 #67754

    No maguiresbridge, it's just a case of manning up. Now that's the ticket!

  61. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 28, 2015, 21:02 #67753

    JimmyGooner, don't put yourself down good post, and don't be a stranger, like some body has already said they (AKB's) think everyone should be like themselves and just brush these defeats, cock up's, embarrassments, humiliations, etc, etc, off and move on, well not a f*****g chance.

  62. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 28, 2015, 20:45 #67752

    Hiccup, roll on 12'oclock tonight.

  63. KC

    Feb 28, 2015, 20:23 #67751

    @DW Thomas - Cheers buddy an honest straight to the point post totally agree.

  64. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 28, 2015, 20:22 #67750

    Anyway where would we rather be tomorrow, playing a match to help us win an invisible trophy (that will give fans hard on's)and qualify for a tournament we're never ever going to win under the present excuse for a manager and to help the coffers that make the fat cats even more money and make us look good on the balance sheets as a well run club, or at Wembley in a final for a real piece of silverware that exists, and we can actually see and put in the cabinet.

  65. Badarse

    Feb 28, 2015, 20:21 #67749

    To whom it may concern: There is no such thing as the past, the clue is in the word...'past'. If reality is here and now, and the past doesn't exist but in the mental meanderings of nebulous thoughts, then why give such prominence to a phantom concept, like trying to clutch smoke to yourself? Then, to compound the wastefulness of the dream, dishonour and discredit everything which does exist, right here in front of yourself? And why get a 'Bargain Bucket', when Dominos do a 'two for one' pizza deal?

  66. jjetplane

    Feb 28, 2015, 20:21 #67748

    Believe me BADDIE am renowned for my shamanic explorations in these parts when I ghost into seemingly ordinary vistas and return with ancient jewels but talking of magic - remember that old song about the French blokie. Trying to remember how it went now. As it's national AKB day/decade let's belt it out for the old times ....' Oh -------- 's magic/he wears a magic hat/and when he saw/another three years/he said I'm having that'...... MG the narrative of over-motivation against the French minnows runs right through the Wenger hierarchy as chief AKB Keown was saying how 'the players need to calm down' .... they are too up for it which then results in losing at 'home' 1-3. Lovely point there too JimmyGooner. AkBs are past masters of repetitive spin with variable sophistication. And as EG wisely says the recurrences emanate from er de emirate ... oh ****! Anyway - another waterlogged pitch today (tough at the bottom) so rampant fixture congestion impounded by heroic souls on the pitches also having livings to make .... Oh yeah & Man Mk 2 are back at third and Everton may prove to not be so tired as those over excited little bunnies at the Wok so tomorrow may well hold marginal interest for some. ****ing love football! Thomas Crown Affair - the nihilism of it all.

  67. Badarse

    Feb 28, 2015, 19:44 #67747

    Pure magic Hiccup. jj I wish you were magic and could make yourself disappear-only kidding.

  68. Hiccup

    Feb 28, 2015, 19:39 #67746

    mg, with it being National AKB Day, I find myself disagreeing with you re the silent treatment. What could wenger say? On any other given day, we would have won that game 4-1. I hear the word naive defending being banded around. Pure nonsense. That was a masterclass in defending. Instead of focusing on the odd mistake, if you can't find anything positive in that performance then you need counselling by arseblogger. You know the procedure. For a post to be reasonable, you have to balance it with both pros and cons. It's no different to my car that won't start and has been stuck on the drive for three weeks now. The missus sounds like a wob, moaning about it being a pile of sh!t and that it needs replacing. I calmly tell her that she doesn't grasp what having a car is all about. I explain it has a fine set of new rear tyres with legal tread and windows that open and shut. She then moans that that's the bloody least I should expect from the money that I've spent on it, and then hits the roof that it's p!ssing oil all over the drive. She really does go on like a wob. I tell her she's been going on about it for too long, and if she ain't got anything different to say then f*ck off and catch a bus. i owe this new approach to life to the AKB's. I have learnt so much that will carry me through the rest of my life. Thank you.

  69. JimmyGooner

    Feb 28, 2015, 19:37 #67745

    @goonercolesyboy - If you dislike the repetition so much, why do you feel the need to repeat your own views so regularly? And when I say "views", I mean criticism of other posters because that's all you seem to offer. I rarely post myself because others are far better than I am at expressing their thoughts, some of which mirror my own, but I felt I had to respond to your post because it seemed so hypocritical. If you want to read something different, can I suggest you write an article for the site on a topic which will encourage more diverse comments? Just a thought.

  70. jjetplane

    Feb 28, 2015, 19:32 #67744

    Just catching 5 live and there are AKBs on presently regurgitating the careful what you wish for twaddle but have now moved on to talking about Harry Kane! proves my theory that where you find an AKB you will find a little spud! First 'pundit' sounded a lot like WESTiE rolling out the numbers and the bloke on well is having a love-in with Harry. I like Harry too but yes - AKBs are nearer to spuds in the football methinks. Very interesting doctor WOB indeed ..... I am Arsenal! ha ha ha!

  71. Badarse

    Feb 28, 2015, 19:31 #67743

    Round, like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel. Never ending or beginning on a ever spinning reel. Like a snowball down a mountain, or a carnival balloon. Like a carousel that's turning, running rings around the moon. Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of it's face. And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space. Like the circles that you find, in the windmills of your mind.

  72. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 28, 2015, 19:22 #67742

    jw, 71327, (who we all love) well said, they very conveniently forget that.

  73. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 28, 2015, 19:08 #67741

    Exeter, so do you think writing the same regurgitation makes a blind bit of difference , and will change anything? As I said before no one from Arsenal football club reads this so what is the point, apart from getting it off your chest? The readers are just so tired of reading it and having to rubbish it again and again. As Badarse says, not every manager is everybody's cup of tea at any club, but the constant bashing is mindless and boring. A change will at some stage be upon us but it certainly won't be because of the posts on this site, that could be renamed the online moaner. Find another subject or move on.

  74. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 28, 2015, 18:44 #67740

    jw brings up a good point. We all here take our cue from the club. The club is going around in circles. So our debates/arguments go around in circles, retreading the same ground again and again. If you're content with the way things are at the club, then you should also learn to accept the circular nature of themes on forums such as this. Basically, stop moaning about the moaners. When things shift at the club, so will the debate.

  75. jeff wright

    Feb 28, 2015, 18:40 #67739

    'Im not surprised that you are looking forward to the Cheltenham Festival Cashley after all there is not much else sporting wise for you to look forward to! In the meantime before the main event I had a nice little earner on the Donny Tote Placepot today I avoided M'c Coy's rides- and found my way to the end of the rainbow when BOBCATBILLY romped home in the 4.20. Sometimes I find that it's best to lower ones sights in the racing game when deciding where to invest your cash. I'm using my winnings to pay for a weeks break in Benidorm going on the 2th of March I will of course still be following eventson here and on the footall field of play. Arsene in my view should now lower his own sights on what it is possible to win this season and write the European Cup off as being a lost cause and instead go for the FAC again and the top 4 trophy otherwise called 4th place. Sometimes a scratch side does better in these sort of away games in Europe than a first team does.There is less pressure on them ,pressure being something that the likes of Ozil and co can't obviously handle very well. United are despite their on paper impressive run of results,that include beating us at the coliseum of gloom, any great shakes .A side motivated and fearless can beat them .Unfortunately this description does not fit Arsene and our players these days. Wenger should try to change this and start by dropping some players such as the big ducking German against Everton and go for a moral boosting win and then fire the team up for the trip to Old Trafford .I shall be watching how things transpire and trust me Cashley old chap if I see any of the malarkey that went on against Monaco you can be as certain as tock follows tick and that Jack and Rambo will never play a full season that I will be regurgitating some criticism for the old duffer and his all too often bottlers that unfortunately wear AFC shirts. Cheers.

  76. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 28, 2015, 18:09 #67738

    Bard, i hope it hasn't drove you to drink, although i wouldn't be surprised if TOF has years ago.

  77. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 28, 2015, 17:46 #67737

    John A, he regrets Fook all mate, his ego won't/doesn't allow him to, anyway as far as he's concerned he is/was right.

  78. DW Thomas

    Feb 28, 2015, 17:23 #67736

    Been reading the posts regarding Monaco from this and Kev's article. I found myself not even caring anymore to post. Everyone is saying the same things, now going on 10 years! AKBs defend this manager to no end. Those that can't stand Wenger anymore state how badly we need change. It's all just so monotonous! Like having the same sandwich every day for 10 years! It used to taste great, but now it's just lost its flavor! At our core we could be so much more. Wenger lackeys don't think that and thus indulge their hero despite no real glory of any kind. Chelsea are gearing up for another trophy. While we argue about losing at home to a side that was without 4-5 of its best and still beat us. 3-1. This was not Barca or Bayern or Real. Monaco! The discussions of wages and spending are all smokescreens to hide or defend the shambles of never ever getting better as a club. Invincibles to this? Stadium move to be the best and we can't beat Monaco at home. It wouldn't be a crisis if this hadn't happened for years now! Wealthy spoiled people making themselves wealthier while we eat it up like we're starving for it! What a joke being a fan of this club has become.

  79. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 28, 2015, 17:10 #67735

    jeff if you think anyone is listening to your regurgitated posts then think again. It is a complete waste of time. So come up with something new and debatable will you? If not then you get the same response from me. Badarse, yes Cheltenham is almost here, happy days.

  80. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 28, 2015, 17:08 #67734

    Hiccup, that reminds me of the last time a particular day was mentioned, from some deluded AKB masquerading as David Icke or was it the other way round, however we were warned about Tuesday and we were all worried we were going to wake up dead or with two heads or even worse finding out we were related to wenger, and we're still waiting, i think there's more a chance of that happening and anyway we haven't heard TOF's gobbledegook presser for tomorrow yet.

  81. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 28, 2015, 16:12 #67733

    Have you head the latest offering from the big useless german? (BUG) after TOF refused to give them the hair dryer treatment after the Monaco humiliation instead giving then the silent treatment i'm sure they'll learn from that, what an excuse for a manager, you couldn't make it up, the big useless german (BUG)reckons they were over motivated, you really couldn't make it up could you. This waste of space of a manager has certainly done a good job of schooling his players to do what he does talk pure shyte.

  82. Westlower

    Feb 28, 2015, 15:39 #67732

    @R/K Your thinking is on the right track with prioritising the Mullins runners. I'm interested in Nichols Canyon who's entered in the Supreme on Tuesday & the Neptune on Wednesday. With Douvan also entered in the Supreme & favourite to win, I'm assuming Nichols Canyon will run in the Neptune. Will decide how to play when the declarations are made on Sunday & Monday.

  83. jeff wright

    Feb 28, 2015, 15:03 #67731

    It's a bit much when the usual suspects that constantly post their same old yawn inducing mantras of OTT optimism complain about 'regurgitated'points being posted about failures. The reason why they keep being posted is because the same mistakes are constantly being made and the same excuses served up to try and explain them away.Who are we supposed to blame for this if not Wenger?

  84. Tony Evans

    Feb 28, 2015, 15:02 #67730

    Roy - can definitely relate to that, mate. I remember being absolutely gutted having to miss the LIverpool FA Cup final because of a friends wedding and trying every trick in the book to find out what was happening. Mega depressed when I eventually found out we had been robbed by two late Owen goals. Indifference is the word now which makes me very sad really.K

  85. jjetplane

    Feb 28, 2015, 14:57 #67729

    As I get to the end of these posts while AFC sinks further into the plague mud of ghostly Londinium I thank the eternal match-sellers of Mount Pleasant I am a WOB. Well said BARD, RON, MC, HiCcUP, JeFFW and all you other folk who make Arsenal still a word and a culture worth savouring. Maybe one day there will be a football club happily nestled in dear old Holloway. But for now - howabout the Eagles away! ..... Beat West Ham who beat Tottenham who beat Arsene FC and so the cycle spins as long as the PL resembles the arnaments industry ..... Talking of Guns - where are they now?

  86. radfordkennedy

    Feb 28, 2015, 14:40 #67728

    Westie...Hello mate yes I shall be screaming and shouting and trying to go hands and heels in the last furlong myself again this year,I've cleared the diary for the Thursday and Friday and will be keeping a lookout for spring heeled on whom I had a nice payday last year,and I would think Mullins won't be far from my thoughts either,hope you have big tickle yourself mate

  87. Roy

    Feb 28, 2015, 14:08 #67727

    Tony Evans, well said mate. I'll give you another example of how far I've fallen, and I'm sure you can relate. Next weekend I have a family wedding to attend. I was hoping against hope that TV wouldn't move the game from Saturday, therefore I'd be forced to give it a miss and catch up later. In other words, I could have been enjoying myself. Now it's been switched to Monday I'll be tuning in for more torture no doubt. Now, when this same sort of situation used to occur in the not too distant past, it would have caused endless arguments with me trying to work out how I could catch the game by any means possible that even GCHQ would have been proud of my stealth tactics ! Now it doesn't seem worth the hassle. How sad. But at least I won't end up the same way as our defending - suicidal !

  88. Badarse

    Feb 28, 2015, 13:24 #67725

    Gaz, if I added that I agree AW doesn't do his job without errors then I would be speaking for all of humankind too. I would like to think everything I have touched has been golden, in truth all pretty tarnished, though generally did my best, and quite often I winged it. I've coached, skippered, also player-managed teams-sometimes I had to tread water, people do. All men have feet of clay, women do too but are often seen in red sling backs, (love sling backs but they play havoc with my knees). We all need to recognise that AW has credentials which put him in his current job, many accept his past achievements but are long since critical of recent history. The water has been muddied by our move, the huge financial rewards of the EC and an owner regarding AFC as a business opportunity. Often it is impossible to step back from the edge, or at least very difficult. He is totally committed to AFC, all 'in the know' seem to agree on this. His salary is irrelevant in this. He has a poor strategy? Perhaps, substitutions are questioned but most would disagree over them-either way it is par for the course in my book. Sadly in human nature most form an opinion and stick to it. I just do not believe he is all the things people claim. Yes he may be, yes someone may perform better, yes, yes, yes, to generalised criticisms but I would never see anything near enough to warrant a lynch mob approach. I support my club, my players and the manager, and yes, like most, as westlower constantly explains, shall support any new men, including a new manager. Take a look around, many in your camp virtually despise AFC-they openly say so. They vilify players of today, denigrate icons of the past, and slag off any likely new arrivals. Be careful who you climb into bed with, it could be Helen. I hope this registers in some small way. Good old Arsenal.

  89. A Cornish Gooner

    Feb 28, 2015, 13:15 #67724

    Badarse/Chris. I am happy to join the current rapprochement, and am willing to bury the hatchet (not literally) To help lift the gloom, one of my favourite Arsenal cup performances is on youtube, the 1933 cup final v Liverpool. I'm sure most of you have seen it a hundred times, but it always makes me laugh, and makes me proud to see things done 'The Arsenal way'. The smoking goalkeeper adds a modern touch! Charles 'Charlie' Charles. An Arsenal legend. Just google Harry Enfield Arsenal

  90. Westlower

    Feb 28, 2015, 13:08 #67723

    Please excuse my obvious error in the previous post, should have read on one is blaming the ref, not playing. Hiccup always gets off on my errors so at least I've put a smile on his face. I'm afraid it's a combination of approaching 3 score years & ten, plus my head is full of Cheltenham runners & this won't change until that particular festival is over. As it's closely followed by the Flat season starting at the end of March I'll have to take my annual leave until November. If I don't stay focused on finding horse race winners I'll most likely go skint. I'll pop back intermittently when time permits, particularly if something sensational occurs with AFC. Good Luck to all of you, WOB's & AKB's, Gooners all. Always back winners!

  91. Westlower

    Feb 28, 2015, 12:54 #67722

    @Hiccup. The reason no one is playing the ref for Wednesday's result is simply that they perform to a higher standard than English refs, eg Martin Atkinson. When there's 3 minutes of added time the ECL refs blow after precisely on 3 minutes. An English ref, probably conditioned by years of officiating at OT, will play on a bit longer just to see what develops. SKY like a thrilling climax as it attracts more customers, much like Bard's domineering Helen. @RadfordKennedy, Are you playing at Cheltenham in 10 days time?

  92. Tony Evans

    Feb 28, 2015, 12:31 #67721

    Gaz - I have a 17 year old daughter too but she has absolutely zero interest in any football and never has understood the powerful emotions (both good and bad)(virtually all bad at the moment) that Arsenal generate in me. Like you I blame Wenger 100% for bringing me to my lowest point ever with Arsenal. It's not the board that decides on tactics, picks the team, buys the players and refuses to learn from past mistakes - it's old clueless himself. I have gone through all the dark days of the mid 70s, and 1981 to 1986 wern't too good either, but nothing has prepared me for a manager that keeps making the same old errors again and again, refusing to alter the expansive gung-ho playing style he so loves, even in the face of a mountain of evidence that says he must do. Arsenal are like a rudderless ship under Wenger with no spine or leadership, and too many of the same type of players. The likes of you and me have been saying this for years and to hear Wenger say the defending v Monaco was suicidal made me laugh out loud. Of course it was you idiot - what the hell have you been looking at these past 7 or 8 years? Perhaps if he wasn't so preoccupied with his duvet coat zip he might have noticed some of the suicidal defending from years gone by and actually done something to rectify it!

  93. jeff wright

    Feb 28, 2015, 12:21 #67720

    Coleseyboy or can I call you Cashley ? You should have taken my advice and stayed quiet but you have to keep on and on and yawn... on... with your delusions ... you really could not make it up.

  94. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 28, 2015, 12:04 #67719

    Peace Badarse, though any more talk of coconuts and small potatoes may get me going again... at least off to lunch. I guess we all have our fixations, don't we? And Chris, yes, we can all be guilty of double standards. Your 'duel' with Ron shows you're not always a man of calm, balanced words. And do I have an online dad as well as a real one? Maybe if they club together they'll be able to afford take me to the Arsenal.

  95. Website Admin

    Feb 28, 2015, 11:42 #67718

    @goonercolesboy - For clarification, the post you are referring to is from Website Admin, not the Editor and please do not assume we have had enough of Jeff or anyone else's posts. That is a completely inaccurate assessment of the comment. We are responding to feedback regarding specific elements of posts.

  96. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 28, 2015, 11:35 #67717

    jeff again your regurgitated posts are mindless and boring, even the web editor has had enough. I laugh at your despair, your inability to see that no one at Arsenal cares what you write, and not many on here do either. Keep posting regurgitated rubbish and I will continue to respond. Great game this....can hardly wait for your reply.

  97. Bard

    Feb 28, 2015, 10:54 #67716

    Hiccup; nice thought but I don't think it will help. Glad the Webed has commented on the abuse. I am still reeling from being called a 'coked up numpty'. I bought a book on cod psychoanalysis to find out what it meant. Apparently it derives from being a listener to Alan 'its a big big big game' Brazil in the mornings. The other downside is I have people stopping me in the street asking where they can get some 'gear'. All in all Ed my life has been a misery .I much prefer the f*** off down the lane of old to these modern day abusive terms. Is Wenger out an abusive term?

  98. Bob

    Feb 28, 2015, 10:40 #67715

    Ian, your last paragraph is a perfect example of "learned helplessness", a well-documented pyshological response. Conditioning people to give up and say "what's the point". If anyone's remotely interested, google Martin Selligman. And if we could have attracted only the likes of Eriksen or Suarez (back in 2011) instead of Ozil without having Champions' League football....is that supposed to convince us of how vital it is that we qualify for it every year, even though we don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting even remotely close to winning it since Wenger lost the plot many years ago?

  99. Alsace

    Feb 28, 2015, 10:33 #67714

    The players? I was thinking about this. Over 17-18 years, the players change but the mistakes are the same. There is only one common denominator - The Manager and his "tactics".

  100. Website Admin

    Feb 28, 2015, 10:28 #67713

    A couple of house-keeping points. Firstly, refrain from personal abuse in comments. By all means criticise and debate, but there has been an increase in vitriolic remarks made about other posters. In the most part we have let these go, but we also want to encourage participation from as a wide a cross section of the Arsenal support as possible - whatever their views - and it's our view that abusing one another will not assist in this regard. The comments section is a fine forum for sharing views, but it would be boring if everyone held the same opinion, so contrary to what some posters have suggested, we do not want posters who take an alternative stance to articles or other posters to go and use other websites. Secondly, if you have evidence of people posting under different names, by all means contact us at [email protected] and we will investigate. We try to monitor this closely and have removed posts in the past. Accusing people of doing this without evidence may now be considered a breach of house rules which could result in the post being removed. Sorry to be tetchy over this, but we are listening to feedback from visitors to the site. Thanks.

  101. John A

    Feb 28, 2015, 10:13 #67712

    I wonder if Wenger; Regrets the move to the Emirates - has it really been so great or just taken the soul out of the club? Regrets selling RVP? Regrets selling and not buying back Cesc? Regrets not buying YaYa,? Regrets not sorting out the medical people years ago? Regrets not buying a decent keeper after Lehman left? Regrets buying sub standard players because they were going cheap? Regrets not learning from tactical mistakes they have dogged the team for 10 years? Above all does he regret not leaving after the FA Cup win to at least go out on some sort of high?. I personally have all these regrets.

  102. radfordkennedy

    Feb 28, 2015, 10:12 #67711

    West Facing Cannon...good post mate,what disgusts me at the moment is the way FIFA are turning a blind eye to whats going on in Qatar,70 years ago slave labour was used to construct the Western Wall defences on mainland europe,many hundreds died through starvation exhaustion and having to survive in filthy squalid conditions,the main protagonists were hunted down and brought to book....the exact same is happening now in Qatar,but because its being done in the name of football people look the other way...greed and coruption is eating football alive

  103. jeff wright

    Feb 28, 2015, 10:06 #67710

    Colesybollox you are a pathetic dumbass individual who has been ranting at others on here for donkeys years. The fact that these folk were proven right and you proven wrong obviously irks you.Especially with your big ego .Wenger is an old has been outdated manager who peaked back in 2004 and has been in decline ever since. That is a fact . You are fooling no one with your claims to just be supporting AFC ,you are an obsessed Wenger nut job end of. No real Arsenal supporter would want to see these constant humiliations that we get every season under Inspector Clueless they were bad enough when it was the top sides dishing them out but now we have the likes of the spuds and Monaco ( you know that side that were supposed to be have been an easy tie) getting in on the act. Wenger who was fired from French TV after his ludicrous performances during the World Cup on it and is a laughing stock in his own country now days still has clowns like you in this country supporting him . You couldn't make it up.He put all the blame on the team the other night for the humiliation by his former club that fired him for his incompetence donkeys years ago. These players that Wenger blamed are the same players that you say we should blindly get behind when Wenger himself says that they were useless,or suicidal , stupid is what most would say like little lost lambs. Now Wenger is the manager and these sort of performances are a common occurrence under his coaching and as I said before it's very convenient for him to take the credit ,and he does so, when we win, but to deny any responsibility for these horror shows that keep happening.His after match interviews are reminiscent of Comical Ali's tanks what tanks ? It just doesn't make sense this Arsene is not to blame it's all the players fault or the other excuses that are wheeled out like a bin of old rubbish ,but then again nothing about the AKB love-in does .I suggest that you give your fractious posting a rest pal it's like Wenger himself senseless and (yawn)boring.

  104. Hiccup

    Feb 28, 2015, 9:49 #67709

    Guys, it's all got a little bit over excitable on here over the last 48 hours, so I think we just need to take some of the emotion out of proceedings. If we're not careful, we will once again see an exodus of AKB's fleeing to Arseblog, and will be just left with Westie's odds and Bob wilson quotes once again. Be careful what you wish for. The AKB's just want to be loved and to feel wanted. I suggest we dedicate today to the AKB's, and officially name today as National AKB Day. A day where they have breakfast in bed. A day where we sympathise and take on board what they say without question. For one day, put on a pair of those rose tinted glasses (free in this week's Radio Times) and see the world in their light. Let's even help them along. The referee hasn't been blamed once yet for Wednesday which is a miracle in itself. Well I say there was an infringement on chamberlain for their third goal and a strong suspicion of offside with the through ball. See how easy this sh!t is? The guy that thought we should have won 4-1 is underselling the team. I reckon it should have been 5-0. And before you know it, we have a 7 goal swing, and arsenal have smashed Monaco. Where David Cameron said hug a hoodie, I say cuddle an AKB.

  105. KC

    Feb 28, 2015, 9:42 #67708

    We had our best ever years under Wenger and great credit should go to him and no doubt never forgotten. What ever is said on here we are at least not back in the dark days at the end of GG reign and the football is at least watchable although this can be difficult at times Wenger has not yet taken us to the depth of the boring crap GG produced. But in my opinion change is required and a passion brought back. As I have said many times Diego Simmone is the man. Still believe we we will finish third but a team that can not defend and does not address the issues will only go so far. My anger is because we have a manager who mentions suicidal defending but then takes no blame, beg my pardon but he is the manager the defending is his Dna of the team, he buys the defenders decides how we play etc etc if they perform as they did on Wednesday he should be big enough to take responsibility. Wednesday's defending was so similar to the mancs game lessons never learnt. Pers, goalkeeper are not good enough but until we have a different attitude I doubt changing players will address the bigger problem. Arsenal under Wenger are and have been defensively naive for many years hence the failure to challenge for the biggest trophies sadly Wenger will not accept it. I am a great fan of watching good football played on the floor taking it to the opposition and placing an emphasis on the offensive side but any team that wants success must be defensively sound and go on the pitch with a small fear they will be dropped if they don't perform sadly Wengers teams lack both.

  106. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 28, 2015, 9:24 #67707

    Hiccup, jeff doesn't wind me up mate, I laugh at his drivel and love to respond. There isn't a positive bone in his body when it comes to Arsenal football club. Let's trade hate with despise then shall we jeff, if that makes you feel better. Either way it adds up to the same.

  107. Bard

    Feb 28, 2015, 9:01 #67705

    Baddie; someone's posting in your name. The bulletproof, zenlike Baddie who has just posted is surely not the same delicate flower who throws his toys ( or more accurately his router) out the window whenever we lose.

  108. Chris

    Feb 28, 2015, 8:56 #67704

    Exeter - Sorry, couldn't help myself, what with "cod-psychoanalysis of people you've never met" and hypocrisy being two of my favourite subjects. Along with irony - such as where you accuse Badarse of making it all about him and then repeated challenge him, colesy etc to 'duels'... I suspect we're all guilty of double standards from time to time, so it seems a bit of a cheapshot really, that's all my point was. BTW, you're not the reincarnation of Stroud Green Road Boy? Or his son perhaps? You've got a very similar voices, although you come across as perhaps younger.

  109. Badarse

    Feb 28, 2015, 8:19 #67703

    No tears shed in SW6 methinks, another voice against Putin silenced forever. Peace E/G. Gaz, am on the 'hurry up', but an interesting post. I will try to let you into my world given half a chance so this may come in separate posts-it could help perhaps. I am not an AKB though I love Hiccup's humour and can be an AKB for that alone. I am not a doddering old fool, though they too have a story. I am a quiet and very loud individual, most people are contradictions. We have covered my AFC credentials, which I paraded for your benefit, despite E/G wanted to treat it like a coconut shy-he has a fixation, but is easily forgiven, why I constantly forgive Ron, so E/G is small potato, but a creamy, buttered mash variety. If you accept that I am a reasonable, balanced...whoops, sod it, dropped me croissant...chap we can begin. I am perpetually disappointed in AFC, and constantly lifted by them. So that suggests resilience, or stupidity. Another programme later buddy.

  110. Gaz

    Feb 28, 2015, 7:55 #67702

    In all honesty if I saw a real solid arguement made for Wenger staying I'd gladly change my own tune and follow suit. Sad thing is the arguements made for Wenger going on this board (and others I have to say) make much more sense to me than those arguements made for him to stay. In-fact despite the many posts I see in Wengers favour I'm really not sure what the arguements for him to remain are other than the fact he was once a great manager-a decade ago-and other Clubs have had more money than him! And lets be honest thats a daft arguement as he's regulary lost to Clubs with a fraction of our budget over the past six or seven years. As for the 'he's been in the CL for seventeen years' arguement that just makes him look really average as just about any other big Club given that kind of run would have won the darn thing! I honestly get the loyalty thing and I was wrong to suggest that shows a lack of passion. Perhaps its a fear of change that makes them cling onto Wenger so much? All I know is that until I see a real solid arguement made in defence of Wenger remaining I'm firmly in the 'Out camp'.....when I can be bothered thinking about it that is!!!...

  111. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 28, 2015, 0:47 #67701

    Nice of you to butt in, Chris, but I'm surprised you're interested - what has this got to do with whose got the higher wage bill between Arsenal and Chelsea? If you'd been following, you'd see I've only been doing to Badarse what Badarse does to others - cast judgments, make corrections, show him where he's going wrong. However, it seems it's okay for him to do it, but not to get it back. Maybe it's because he does it in a 'this is for you own good' way, whilst I'm more strident in tone. As for giving him a break, if that's what he really wanted, why would he write a post talking of my defects and malfunctions if not to provoke further? I suspect he's rather enjoying this. However you are right in that the game has gone too far now. Enough's enough.

  112. Gooner72

    Feb 27, 2015, 23:24 #67700

    AKB = No he doesn't!!!!!!!

  113. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2015, 23:06 #67699

    Hiccup , Keyboard warriors everyone of 'em the AKB .You couldn't make it up.

  114. Hiccup

    Feb 27, 2015, 22:36 #67698

    I luv ya Jeff! Watching you wind the AKB's up is rather entertaining. Can you believe anyone would let themselves get so wound up over this? It speaks volumes.

  115. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2015, 22:33 #67697

    Tony /colesy give it a rest please your unrelenting support for Arsene and attacks on others who don't follow this slavish support that you indulge in puts you and other AKB's in a minority on here. My word Colesy hatred is a strong word we don't even know each othere,not that I particularly want to know you after you wished I was dead ! B You really are one screwed up sad hombre. Grow up and try to act your age you complete tool.

  116. Badarse

    Feb 27, 2015, 22:19 #67696

    'Do not forsake me, oh my darling...', thanks Chris, nice calm balanced words. You would be in my team. OK, what line comes next, 'The clock it ticks, the clock it tocks. Time again for the Music Box. With Willum and me and a friend or two, we'll ...'

  117. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 27, 2015, 22:19 #67695

    jeff you continue to make things up, but when you are delusional then you know no different. As I have said many times, you are not a supporter of Arsenal, you are a supporter of your ego and your self indulgent nonsense. You have nothing to offer other than the same negativity. How you sleep at night with your obvious internal anger and strife is not something I care about. You are most certainly paranoid, a well founded point made by Trev. You are by far and away the most hated person on this site...keep up the good work.

  118. west facing cannon

    Feb 27, 2015, 22:11 #67694

    Good shout Johnny 99. David Dein inviting Kroenke onto the Board has turned out to be a massive own goal as was the betrayal that was the 1991 Bond scheme. It is the self serving attention seeking business types that have ruined football. The only language these people understand is money. They know the price of everything and the value of nothing. They have been steadily infiltrating the game for 25 years now initially using the Taylor Report as a smokescreen to hike prices and evict as many working class people out of stadiums as possible. The thing about a lot of the people at the ' E ' place is they are really not that interested in the ' belonging ' bit of Arsenal so they'll happily stomp up the readies without asking any questions. I started watching Arsenal in the seventies and eighties and while things of course weren't perfect at least the club had integrity. WENGER OUT !

  119. Hiccup

    Feb 27, 2015, 22:02 #67693

    FFS Online Gooner, can you please drag Simon Rose out of hiding and get him to write an article for the benefit of the AKB's. They're all upset and find it a shame that the reports on here aren't dressed up in the wishy washy style of 'we dust ourselves down and go again arseblog.' Or just post any one of his articles from the last 5 years where his enthusiasm at the prospect of finishing 4th won't make them feel as isolated as they do.

  120. tony pepe

    Feb 27, 2015, 21:31 #67692

    its laughable that as soon as someone criticises our old fart jeff, he resorts to believing in his brain that it must be the same person. believe it or not jeff, many people have every right to oppose your opinion. after all freedom of speech is your policy so it must be the rest for the people too. I don't question your opinion but I do question your pathetic attitude if they do not share your view. oo to be.

  121. Chris

    Feb 27, 2015, 21:12 #67691

    Exeter - That's a bit of a weird offer you're making to Badarse. He's hardly going to respond positively when you goad him like that, is he? Not content with making a cod-psychoanalysis of a man you don't know, you've been accusing him of hypocrisy and all manner of unpleasantries and try to create some strange personal duel between the two of you... And you accuse him of weird obsessions! Give the man a break, ffs.

  122. Johnny 99

    Feb 27, 2015, 21:00 #67690

    We have been here so many times before.The 8-2 the 4-4 Newcastle,AC Milan,Birmingham cup final,Bradford Blackburn, 6-3,5-1,6-0 All games that happened in the last 5 years.And what has changed?Nothing.What lessons were learned?.Are you telling me a manager of Bayern,Barca and Real would be still in a job an hour after a 8-2 defeat.Lets get into the real world nothing is ever going to change.Even when Wenger goes Kroenke will bring in another Wenger clone.This once great club died the day Kroenke was invited onto the board by David Dein.

  123. Patrick

    Feb 27, 2015, 20:59 #67689

    I think there has been a definite sea change now. The tipping point has been reached and it's a good thing. Not only are normal foes on this site sympathising and Supporting each other, The press have turned and that is significant. I'm excited now about what the next twelve months hold. Change is a good thing when needed and my god it's needed. I'm looking forward to feeling livened up again.

  124. John F

    Feb 27, 2015, 20:56 #67688

    Aaron I think it was that 4-4 game that finally pushed me into the AMG camp. I just could not get over it and it was not aided by my Geordie brother in law winding me up.Mike I was in the clockend for that Coventry game wasn't that one the first live Big Match game and it ended 0-0.Dire days but I did not feel as frustrated as I do now.I think because such basic things are going wrong and could be easily fixed.Set the team up with the opposition in mind,play players in their right position,Strengthen areas of the team in the summer that need it rather then overloading it with players that all want to play in the middle.I just wonder if Wenger is just too much of a nice guy that is why ex players are not so critical.Silvestre said today that Wenger is too nice to his players and needs to be more ruthless.My northern wife while standing in the kitchen with her rolled up stockings on, said to me through the gap in her teeth that she is not going to shave until Wenger has gone as she is fed up with my miserable expression after the big games.At least it might cover her tats.

  125. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2015, 19:38 #67687

    Oh dear ,my comments about you Colseyboy have obviously struck a raw nerve. So much for the theory then that where there is no sense there is no feeling! You are right though colesboy that no one cares what I say at AFC or anyone else either come to that who offers criticism against the continuous misery that goes on and on every season under Wenger's and Stan's inept rule . Then again why should they when they have geniuses like you swallowing their lies and supporting their management. You couldn't make it up. As for looking silly with your track record on this you should give up posting ... I can't think of anything that you have predicted ever coming true . It all in the end comes down to your silly mantra of 'I get behind the team'.This is just Wengeresque AKB talk for get behind Arsene and just stay stumn . I suggest coleseboy (a silly name this but hey you are a very silly man,not a boy though) that you should stick to just reading Arseblogger's mild reasonable musings with your pal lee - or your alter ego Tony pepe - and that way the world will look normal to you and you will be all happy and smiley and have no need to spend donkeys years of your sad life posting abuse to your betters on here ,as you have done with the angst ratio of your posts going up and up ever higher like a kettle coming to the boil as Arsene's career goes ever spiralling downwards . You only really want to see excuses on here for Arsene such as it was the players wot done it not Arsene! HE can't be blamed for anything , you know that this makes sense.Try and cheer up though Tony we will probably beat Everton and then you can come back with leeKFC to tell us moaners how we don't know what we are talking about . Of course if we don't beat Everton then you can always put any criticism down to a knee jerk reaction from bed wetters - while REAL GOONERS get behind the team. Even if they are to blame for the poor result... right >?

  126. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 27, 2015, 19:32 #67686

    It seems to me, Badarse, that you're the one with the obsession with lynching AW - or rather, you're obsessed with the notion that others want to lynch him. Such melodramatic language. Of course, I should remember, you're the only one allowed to pick apart other posters, issue corrections, make digs (all in good humour of course). I've invited you several times to have a debate - not a dogfight, a reasoned exchange, as goonercolesyboy and I just managed - but you always demur. This could be on any aspect of today's team and management you like. I wonder, given your confidence in the strength of your argumentative powers and the weakness of mine (especially given the mental flaws you've diagnosed) why you won't take up the offer. It is a chance to best me, to shut me up. Something you would surely love to do. So why don't you?

  127. Gooner72

    Feb 27, 2015, 19:21 #67685

    2 more years of pain to follow sadly.....where did it all go wrong?? Leaving Highbury for the golden fleece that was European supremacy probably, I had a dream, unfortunately it wasn't the re-occurring washing machine effect that is February / March every bloody year.....Earth calling Ronald de Boer and Dennis B where are ya, where are ya!!!!!!

  128. jjetplane

    Feb 27, 2015, 19:04 #67684

    Nice post EG you have a touch of the Derrida there! He loved to pull apart 'positive' theology too! I guess we all love ourselves now we have the instant gratification media. Monaco were most impressive in an Athletico sense. Perfectly justified and to think they sacked Wenger all those years ago. That is a dark humour. Very French, very Lacanian.

  129. Badarse

    Feb 27, 2015, 18:47 #67683

    AW can't organise the players, he leaves them to work it out for themselves, and that's crap. Beat the Oilers and the players did it, AW is redundant. Play badly against the Sours and AW did it. We flip backwards and forwards WOBbling all over the place, yes/no, black/white. AW perhaps should bite a few heads off, get more involved, show animation, openly criticise players, but he doesn't, it isn't him. People don't like it, me neither, but it isn't going to change with a website's posters attacking each other. I believe many coaches show involvement but in general the players define the club, the team, much of the control probably takes place off the pitch, in the dressing room for example. This is possibly my biggest criticism of AW, he expects so much from his players because of a personal investment, and isn't able to maintain an acceptable performance level often enough, (though his track record is pretty impressive). In other words he cannot get the best from the men representing him and us. A failing? Of sorts, but this could change in the blink of an eye with a leader in the side, that could prove to be the catalyst. In the meantime some moan and say the same things over and over, some don't. Whatever gets you through the night.

  130. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 27, 2015, 18:16 #67681

    mark from aylesbury, good point, the the dressing, that's been brought up on here quite a few times, it would certainly look like it but they're probably to thick to realise it themselves, but I've no doubt most of them are as pissed off with him as we are (maybe not his wee favourites)but are so comfortable on big contracts and know they wouldn't get the same or even a look in anywhere else put up with it and him and his on going inwardly collapse's which are even noticeable, where he just sits there looking/staring out into the abyss as the dwarfs run around doing whatever they do, then he realises the cameras on him and he sits up, startled, looking all round the place trying to give the impression he's taking everything in and knows what's going on and happening, then when the camera pans away it's back to his stupor.

  131. Badarse

    Feb 27, 2015, 18:12 #67680

    Not so much of the 'old', Gaz. Don't listen to E/G, he isn't a good e.g. He gets stuck on some things and has lead you into a cul de sac again. I can criticise AFC all day long if I felt the necessity-I despise much surrounding it. However I am angered by much which passes for normality in everyday life and sometimes have a rant. Pick a subject, I have a feeling my responses would blow you away, that's how I feel about real issues. I do try to illustrate my criticisms with reasonable alternative suggestions though, when talking of national/international matters. With AFC we are virtually powerless, becoming more so by the season, but do not see lynching AW as an answer to all our ills-because it isn't! E/G is an obsessive with a certain malfunction. He knows I have lots of dissatisfaction, as I say so occasionally. He knows I believe we as fans are powerless to effect real change where it's needed. He just has an agenda that all is AW's fault and I don't share it. I have long since explained my approach and reasoning-over a year ago-and will not be pressured into a dogfight to give fuel to a personal demand, by going through it all again. He cannot accept this, because with his problem it doesn't fit his remit, (it leaves it open and he needs a kind of closure), in fact it works against it. It's why he is so stoked up about it-that is funny. He craves me to say you are right, and it isn't happening.

  132. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 27, 2015, 17:40 #67679

    More mindless time wasting drivel from jeff...your posting is laughable, nonsensical and rubbish. More and more can see you as a fool who hasn't a clue what he is talking about. You make stuff up just to suit your agenda. Why spend time on here when no one at Arsenal cares a damn what you say. They are running a football club, all you do is run your mouth.

  133. Gaz

    Feb 27, 2015, 17:33 #67677

    @EG: you're right, I did quantify it by saying 'not everyone' but I still think it's a bit harsh to presume most of us who dare to criticise are more passionate than those who won't. What I should have added of course is that those who can't/wont criticise are a bunch of effing weirdos holding the Club back!!! :-) ...

  134. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 27, 2015, 17:20 #67675

    Gaz, not sure what you're apologising for? "I reckon some fans just feel their loyalty to the Club is under question if they dare to criticise any single aspect of it" is self-evidently true, your comment on passion was generalised and you even qualified it with 'not in every case'. Badarse, as is his wont, then decided to make the post about himself. "Arsenal is mine." In psychological terms, I think what we have here is a narcissistic appropriation of Arsenal. Arsenal as an adjunct, an extension of the self. A celebration of the self. It's interesting.

  135. Hiccup

    Feb 27, 2015, 17:07 #67674

    Are there no boundaries to how far the AKB's will go to give us all a good laugh. Some classics over the last 2 days. "We were unlucky. We could easily have won the game 4-1 if we had taken our chances." This was probably the same numbskull I remember saying we would have won at OT instead of losing 8-2 had Van Persie scored his penalty. And I recall after the City win, because of the unusual circumstance of what appeared to be a tactical approach, some on here credited the players for this performance. How they were shot down by the ruffled AKB's who would hear none of it and gave the credit to wenger. And here we are now, with the AKB's clambering over themselves to lay the blame at the players feet for Wednesday's performance, absolving wenger of anything to do with it. I'm glad their routers are still working. Much more fun when they're posting their excuses.

  136. Gaz

    Feb 27, 2015, 17:04 #67673

    @Badarse: In that case I take it all back you stupid old fart!!! :-) ...

  137. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 27, 2015, 17:01 #67672

    HowardL, I doubt very much he did/does (or even reads them) but the person that does is the one we need as our next manager.

  138. Badarse

    Feb 27, 2015, 16:53 #67671

    Gaz, you will never need to apologise to me, I am almost impervious-have had a lifetime of criticisms and aggro, (how I wish I had westlower's equanimity-truly, I think he is remarkable), so all in my stride. In this instance you were just offering a view borne of a feeling/assessment. I just offered a personal view which was meant to just let you know some are not as you perceive them. If you were with me watching, (we'd need to win that particular game of course), you'd be whipped up by my enthusiasm-most are...honest!) Once went to see friends at Braintree, went to their social club, we scored, I ran at the screen yelling, (do this occasionally; never managed yet to get onto the pitch via the screen but have analysed my actions and concluded that's what I am trying to do-silly old fool!) Returned to my beaming friend, think he'd had a crafty swig of my Guinness. Did the defeat hurt me? A bit of me died-does that tell it about right? We are just all a little bit different, that's all.

  139. Gaz

    Feb 27, 2015, 16:24 #67668

    The saddest thing about it all Tony is that my 17 y/o daughter is feeling exactly the same way now! Kind of feel guilty about this as its obvious my own negativity has worn her down at a point in her life when she shouldn't be looking too deeply into it all!!! I've really tried hard to be positive when we're watching games together but Wenger and his players make it all so darn hard! As soon as Monaco scored their third goal she just looked at me, raised her eyebrows, and went back to tweeting on her phone!!! I was walking down the stairs at work yesterday and a mate asked me if I was still frustrated at wednesdays result. I told him I felt 'frustrated' during the years 2009-2013-now I'm just indifferent to it all and couldn't give a toss!!! And thinking about it all I totally blame Wenger for all of this. At any other Club he would have gone a few years back. Sadly a situation bourne out of many different elements and situations means he's now been here 3 years longer than he should have been. Up to three years ago I still wanted him gone but still enjoyed watching us play and never wanted anything other than an Arsenal win. The thought that a defeat might just influence his leaving never entered my head. Nowadays I dont enjoy watching us and every defeat is sadly followed by the thought it might be a good thing as it piles the pressure on him to go. Hate feeling this way I really do...

  140. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2015, 15:48 #67664

    Collseyboy/Tont/ pepe and his pal lee and Trev's reasons for posting as they do is no great mystery really they along with dear Jamerson internet trolls .lee admitted to reading spuds and other supporters forums and most likely posts silly abuse on them. They see anyone who doesent share their obsession with Arsene as being anti-Arsenal while they are of course themselves uber supporters of AFC . Team performances in their minds when good are down to Wenger's brilliance and when they are poor are then due to factors other than Arsene's management .This is very convenient for Wenger because he is only responsible for the wins and absolved of any blame for the defeat and poor defensive shows. You couldn't make it up. These defeats and the shocking defensive displays are according to the AKB down to other factors the players are being blamed entirely for the Monaco debacle by some AKB's and it's claimed that poor old Arsene was betrayed by his players . How can it be his fault that we have a striker who constantly misses sitters and looks out of his depth in big pressure games and GK's that flap about like a line of wet washing in the wind >? Other classic excuses in the past have been lack of money although Wenger is known to be tighter than a gnats arse when it comes to spending any , dodgy refs , that used to be a fav excuse with some table of iffy stats beng cobbled together at one time to try and prove that instead of being 5th we should be first in the league table! The weather at times has also been blamed wind and rain ,full moons had all the AKB's howling together , or even supporters not singing loud enough at home games. Obviously ,'There Is Only Arsene Wenger' should have rung out the other night that would have scared the Monaco players! These Colesy type clowns are the sort that do the OLES ! at home games when our fast track bullies are bashing about some rubbish Prem side such as Villa at the coliseum of gloom and then pop up on here gloating about it. In fact he and his pal did do actually . Obviously when n brains were given out they did not get their fair share and when colesy was born instead of slapping his arse the midwife slapped his mothers face, but Arsene loves 'em. Why wouldn't he ? They try to dress up this weird obsession that they have with Wenger as being getting behind the team. Though how anyone could get behind a team playing like our lot did the other night against a very ordinary with half the first team missing Monaco , a side that lies 4th in the French league 11 points off the top,is something that only these AKB fools know. I did not see Wenger getting behind them or Bould either. I doubt myself that any AKB were getting behind the players when watching the diabolical way in which they were performing , but they come on here pretending to have done so because after having dug themselves into entrenched positions over Wenger they are now stuck in a hole that they can't get themselves out of.C'est la vie !

  141. Tony Evans

    Feb 27, 2015, 15:42 #67663

    Gaz and Roy - I've reached that point too and there must be many more like us that have had 30 to 50 years worth of passion for the club just beaten out of them by this mind numbingly boring treadmill the club have been on for what seems like an eternity now. Even though it was 'only' Monaco how many of us were surprised by the ineptitude of the performance - not many I would wager. We have been conditioned to expect failure by the 'specialist in failure' and are probably more surprised when something positive actually happens!

  142. Gaz

    Feb 27, 2015, 15:23 #67662

    @Roy: Sadly fella you're where I've been now for about 18 months. Dont get excited if we win nor does it really effect me when we lose. Thats a big shame because my general moods have been dependant on what we do for 40 odd years now!...

  143. Badarse

    Feb 27, 2015, 15:04 #67660

    Tony have to rush am training my little grandson for a school athletics meet tomorrow. I really respect you fella too. Have a moan for me, will you? It hurt on Weds night, but am looking towards Everton now.

  144. Roy

    Feb 27, 2015, 15:02 #67659

    I'll give an indication of how it's really got me deep down. Just imagine for a few seconds that we score a third goal in Monaco near the end of 90 mins to either win it or take it to extra time ( difficult, I know) - D'ya know what ? I won't even get excited. You know that gut - wrenching feeling in that type of situation ? Well, it ain't gonna happen. Do you know why ? Because this clueless manager and regime have knocked it out of me and I had no confidence that we could go any further than the quarters anyway ( the same as most of us with any intelligence ). Anyway, by that time, we'll have bottled it again at O/T leaving us free to flat track bully our way to a top four finish yet again. And so it goes on. I never ever thought I would be able to think that I don't care, but I'm right on the edge of it now. How has it come to this, indeed ?

  145. Gaz

    Feb 27, 2015, 15:02 #67658

    @Badarse: Perhaps I was overly harsh there. Apologies fella...

  146. Tony Evans

    Feb 27, 2015, 14:57 #67657

    Badarse - I well remember that penalty shoot out and the feeling of amazed relief that we had somehow won the game. I get what you saying about positivity and looking on the bright side but sometimes you have to give vent to your feelings of impotent rage at performances like Wednesday night. Just get it off your chest and you will feel all the better for it. You know you want to really!

  147. Badarse

    Feb 27, 2015, 14:30 #67655

    Hello Gaz, it's me again. I shan't say you are once more mistaken, because I can only speak for myself on this occasion, however on that you are mistaken. I have no doubt of your loyalty to AFC, as I have none in my own case either. I can criticise and I wouldn't bat an eyelid as to what others think or feel. I try not to wound personally. That is a general yardstick, I also prefer to think positively. The third tenet I try to live by is not whining and bemoaning how life has dealt me a poor hand-this means I am a pragmatist. I am far from happy with 'our' lot. I do not see the wailing and gnashing of teeth other than amusing. It will not change matters-so why do it? If a poster's name was offered I could pretty much tell you what they would post, so it leaves me cold. It's why I often post silly nonsense-it alleviates the monotony if nothing else. Stick with me on this Gaz, Arsenal are mine. I love all about my club, I cannot explain the sentiments or emotions but they are constant and have remained travelling companions for almost sixty years. It is how it is. Competitive? People who know me would laugh-they think I am far too competitive, too confrontational, too ready for the 'off'. It is how it is. I do not see through your eyes my friend. You see those screaming for change as more passionate-passion is a fluid and flexible emotion, expressed in many ways. In 2005 I stood in front of a large screen holding my wife's hand as the tension mounted during the penalty shoot out. I erupted as PV4 scored the winning goal. I was beside myself, (I said 'Hello Badarse.' The sod refused to answer). I whooped, yelled and kept shouting, 'We've done it!', (you should see what I am like when I stub my toe in a morning). Backslapping and kisses followed. I held my wife and for some inexplicable reason I began to cry. Not sobbing or anything like that, just water trickling down my face, (Oh hang on it was my round-perhaps that's it). That my friend in any circumstances is passion. So I think the lines are drawn too broadly if nothing else. Peace, Young Gun.

  148. mark from aylesbury

    Feb 27, 2015, 14:25 #67654

    The Players - There are a few people saying it is all down to the players - But what then, does this mean he has lost the dressing room? If the players were not doing what he wanted why not shout and call over Per and tell him hold the line. But we see nothing from Wenger at all. He just seems to inwardly collapse. That is the problem

  149. HowardL

    Feb 27, 2015, 14:22 #67653

    To quote from The Manager's column in Wednesday's programme "When you look at the numbers, you see that Monaco are a team who made 11 points at the group stage. They scored four goals and conceded one, so that means they defend very well. That's what they will certainly try to do tonight and they are also very good on the break and quick in transition, so that's what we'll expect from them." So what happened Arsene? An excellent analysis but as there was no indication of an appropriate tactical plan on the night, it seems to cast some doubt on whether Wenger actually wrote these words? Or believed them himself?

  150. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:57 #67651

    Charlie George Orwell, maybe he got lost and just wandered down, as I doubt very much TOF would have listened to anything he had to say. I'd imagine that's his main function at the club under OGL anyway just wandering about.

  151. Aaron

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:49 #67648

    If we beat Everton on Sunday, a team which lie 12th and 6 points above the relegation zone, cue "great mental strength" quotes. I was up at St Jame's Park when we threw away a 4-0 HT lead (and almost lost). How much evidence does anyone need. The AC Milan team that beat us 4-0 was dire. Steve Bruce tactically out thought Wenger in the cup final. We never learn and never will under Wenger

  152. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:41 #67647

    It will happen again alright you can be damm sure of that and sooner than we think but of course to many it will be just another blip. Leopards certainly can't change their spots so it wouldn't matter or make any difference where the old has been sat when your clueless your clueless.

  153. nickf

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:31 #67646

    We need to get rid of Wenger but there are just too many people who wouldn't consider doing anything that could be construed as negative inside the stadium. I've had these arguments on another forum with long term fans. Even booing at the end of the game is out.

  154. Gaz

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:25 #67645

    I reckon some fans just feel their loyalty to the Club is under question if they dare to criticise any single aspect of it. As others have said though those who dare to stick their necks out always come over as being far more passionate about the Club. Not in every case obviously but certainly in most cases...

  155. wykeboy

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:16 #67644

    goodbye Arsene hello Denis B and Tony A brains and knowhow in charge not dogma

  156. The Players

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:09 #67641

    The players had nothing to do with it no? AW looked genuinly up for this one...the players fluffed it for me. Even Bould had the stuffing knowcked out of him with what was going on...it cant be all AW

  157. Mike Collins

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:06 #67640

    Tony Evans is right; the most stinging criticisms here come from diehard Arsenal fans alarmed at the direction we have taken in the last seven to eight years, both on and off the pitch. I recall vividly the solid wall of noise we would generate in the North Bank when Spurs or Chelsea came to visit, for example, roaring on Arsenal teams that may not have been the most technically gifted, but who certainly gave it their all. Now we get the insipid north London intelligentsia, mostly out-of-towners having their "capital experience", filling out the Guardian crossword as a bunch of overpaid and overseas dandies waft about the pitch thinking about their next £120k payday. Things will never go back to the old days but they certainly could be a lot better than they are just now.

  158. Charlie George Orwell

    Feb 27, 2015, 12:38 #67637

    Sorry - not technical area, I meant beside the substitutes seating.

  159. Tony Evans

    Feb 27, 2015, 12:37 #67636

    I just don't understand the likes of Colesyboy and others of his ilk. They seem to be unable to differentiate, or even to understand, the difference between criticism and support. Of course we all support Arsenal but that doesn't mean we can't be critical of how the club is being managed, and also of the farcical performances we see time and time again in the games that really matter. Far from being an anti-Arsenal site what shines through to me from most of the posters is how much they care and, even if they have ceased caring, how sad that has made them feel. For me any fan with a genuine love of the club and a modicum of common sense ought to be able to see by now that Wenger has to go if we want to step up another level. I would even go as far as to say that to give blind loyalty to Wenger (after witnessing so many debacles) seems to suggest to me that you are putting him before your club.

  160. mark from aylesbury

    Feb 27, 2015, 12:21 #67633

    It is perhaps too easy for us to think nothing can be done. However noises in the press suggest that maybe this was one of those milestones, an unpleasant one granted, that has caused some shock at the top. There are some suggestions that the board think this season is results time. Therefore he is going to be held to account. This is a gradual but ever increasing wave coming his way. Gradually we are seeing the erosion of his power and real pressure coming his way. Just a shame this was not applied 5 years ago.

  161. Charlie George Orwell

    Feb 27, 2015, 12:14 #67632

    Kev - while not doubting what you say, I'm pretty sure I saw Primorac (during the second half at least) in the technical area on Wednesday night, and looking pretty fed up, too. Whether it was due to the team performance or the lack of champers available, I don't know.

  162. GoonerGoal!

    Feb 27, 2015, 12:08 #67631

    "The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall..." - Che Guevara

  163. David

    Feb 27, 2015, 11:41 #67630

    Arsenal's Euro trophy return of 2/6 is pretty bad. Not good enough in 95 - but should've won in 2001 - and evens in 1980 and 2006. With better luck it would've been 4/6. The number of finals that Arsenal have reached is ok, but success rate in the finals makes it feel worse when the side is struggling. The biggest disappointment was, as Don remarks, the performance of the side in Europe between 2001 - 2004.

  164. Alsace

    Feb 27, 2015, 10:33 #67625

    I remember losing to Winterslag in the early 80's with Pat Jennings having a shocker. Players have bad games and clubs lose games they shouldn't. That isn't the point. Losing this way is a deliberate act by the Manager. It goes way beyond negligence. The phrase "specialist in failure" suggests incompetence or recklessness. The truth is far far worse.

  165. chris dee

    Feb 27, 2015, 10:29 #67622

    People say Arsene is brave and admirable by sticking to his attacking philosophy no matter what. It's not brave and it's not admirable. It's a form of cowardice because he can always hide behind his 'Arsenal way'philosophy after any defeat. What would be brave and admirable is for Arsene to abandon that philosophy in games that require defensive discipline from all eleven players.To see the team play against Monaco in such a naive,cavalier and arrogant way was mind numbing.But Arsene won't change because he couldn't face the critisism if we did better in these big games by occasionally adapting tactics. This unbending philosophy is what brings about 6-0,8-2,6-3 defeats.This is what allows teams to come back from 4-0 down or 4-2 down with five minutes to play or a cringe worthy 3-1 defeat at home in the Champions League against United.This why we have only won so few games against the top clubs in the Premiership and why clubs in Europe,including Monaco, love to be drawn against Arsenal.Forget the 'old days' when the pressure of gaining success was not so intense,we are now up against ruthless, win at all cost competition at home and abroad and if we do not embrace and understand this then we will forever be also rans behind Chelsea,United,City Real,Barca,Bayern Munich etc. But at the end of the day the buck stops with board.

  166. DJ

    Feb 27, 2015, 10:10 #67619

    Mike Collins: Spot on, the most frustrating thing about all of this is we the fans can do nothing about it. Fan power got rid of Terry Neil in the days of yore but now Arsenal have more customers than fans with real passion. It’s a safer more cordial place to go but don’t expect to have an opinion the club just don’t want your sort anymore dear boy!

  167. Mike Collins

    Feb 27, 2015, 9:56 #67617

    Ian's resigned tone echoes the one we heard in Kev's match report yesterday - we're crap but nothing will change because AW won't do the decent thing and resign, and the board, interested solely in money, won't fire him as the CL cash comes rolling in every year. And there's the rub - plenty of money but no soul, that having been traded in along with Highbury stadium. Those days weren't perfect (15,000 against Coventry anyone?) but at least they weren't disgraceful, as these ones are. How has it got to this?

  168. Website Editor

    Feb 27, 2015, 9:28 #67613

    Regards getting an overview of the game from a lofted pew, I am under the impression that Boro Primorac watches that game from the directors' box and presumably communicates to the manager at half-time. Wenger has said in the past that he likes to be pitchside because he doesn't like the separation from his players. An odd thing to say given the number of matches he does not bother to extensively use his technical area.

  169. challenger

    Dec 04, 2012, 8:07 #29033

    Can I add some thoughts here ? ... I surely thinks that sinking any manager during a season is a mistake, simply because the pressure will be great on the new manager and the risk he will fails will be the highest. Secondly, I do agree a different manager now will get more things out of our players simply by making Ramsey sleeping at home for a start, although his success will be at high risk at any down point. Anyway, it is really sad that to see my team beaten at home without any feelings of anger or sadness. How long more ..

  170. Highbury Diva

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:34 #28958

    I get sick and tired of fans who say "Be careful what you wish for" and "but who could replace Wenger?" I can think of many names. Laudrup may be only in his first season at Swansea but he already has them playing the kind of football Arsenal used to be famous for. We looked sluggish and devoid of penetration on Saturday. By the way, what is Gervinho for? I don't think he would cut it in the championship or even league 1. But it's not just about one player. It's about the manager. There seems to be no tactical nouse, no need to worry about how to address the opposition. Just play your game.Wenger is stubborn and rigid. Whenever has he made an early substitution other than when necessitated through injury? He moans about the players being tired at this early stage of the season? He has a big squad but he doesn't even put Chamakh and his ilk on the bench because they're not good enough. Wenger's influence and power at the club is frightening. Have you seen the film "The Master?" The power one guy can have is terrifying. People start to believe that "The Leader" must always be right and they live with this delusion until some catastrophe probably shocks them out of it. God knows what it will take to get Wenger to go. The fans have got to keep protesting. Sorry if the booing upsets the players but they aren't stupid. They should be surprised if we kept quiet bout it. At least it shows we care.

  171. Tony

    Dec 03, 2012, 11:23 #28956

    A question to those digruntled fans who like me want Wenger out.Would you be prepared to boycott a game? Yes or No simple as that.Well done the BSM for organising the march but a thousand people is not going to make no difference at all.Arsenal v Newcastle is live on tv i ask fans to boycott the game.30,000 empty seats will make more of a statement than a hundred marches.Its up to us the fans to remove Wenger.And by the way before you ask i have boycotted every game for 2 seasons

  172. GoonerGoal!

    Dec 03, 2012, 10:08 #28937

    "Don't Worry Be Happy, Arsene Knows and in Arsene We Trust..." Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!

  173. Ron

    Dec 03, 2012, 9:48 #28936

    A sound article. For me, the Club started to die the day they planned to leave Highbury.Nothing much left to say now because seeing that performance on Saturday said it all, but only to those who really want to see.

  174. Fat Rafe

    Dec 03, 2012, 9:12 #28931

    I have followed The Arsenal since Charlie george laid down to celebrate, I was 4!. I have seen lean times and times of bounty, but never havI seen such constantly poor performances, both on and off the pitch. We, the fans, have dipped to new depths of dispondancy. The players dont believe in themselfs. The Manager is content to be second looser. Its time to ask Mr Wenger to seek other employment. Lay off the players that get returned with a "no thanks" sticker Buy a new defensive line (what would Tony Adams think) Bring back some insipartion (there are enough Arsenal Legends still alive) Write off this season as Wengers Folly.

  175. Mark

    Dec 03, 2012, 8:39 #28928

    Kev in answer to your question how long can this carry on.As long as Wenger wants its as simple as that.He is untouchable.We have an owner in Denver who owns us but we come last amongst all the sports clubs he owns.All Gazidis has to tell him every monday morning is the stadium was full.Wenger will not walk away from £7.5m a year.Would you?I saw Chelsea fans holding up banners about Rafa you would not see one banner at the Emirates about Wenger even after 7 potless seasons.So the facts are Kroenke wont sack Wenger and Wenger wont resign so we are stuck with him for at least another 5 maybe 10 years its frightening but it will happen

  176. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Dec 03, 2012, 7:14 #28927

    'Arsene Knows'. No. He. Doesn't.

  177. Ed enough.....

    Dec 03, 2012, 6:15 #28925

    Sack the board!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shambles, Joke, Mess, Shameful...Just a few of the nicer words I heard all around me on saturday...Things are in serious decline, and I fear "OUR ARSENAL" has now finally gone forever, never to be seen again. Everyone has writern off our chances of 4th place, but to be honest, whats the point in us being in the champions league...We will never come close to winning the thing....Dark days ahead.

  178. wrag

    Dec 03, 2012, 1:56 #28924

    I remember when we were awesome ! And im only 29 ..please go away arsene ,your kinda ****ty and ivan's a bit of a knob end and all !!

  179. ljb

    Dec 03, 2012, 1:12 #28923

    Russ,during those 7 yrs i believe Liverpool have won the CL,the FA cup,and the cup with the ever changing name at least once.Spurs have won the ever changing name cup as well.People who could replace Wenger;Guardiola,Klopp,Simeone,Pellegrini,Laudrup,Moyes,Loew,possibly Martinez,Van Basten,Rikard,plus a whole host of up and coming managers who deserve a chance at seeing what they can do at a big club.Or lets just stick with an out of touch has been and end up like Forest.

  180. tfSmudge

    Dec 02, 2012, 23:29 #28921

    Gazidis out, David Dein back in now...

  181. NickF

    Dec 02, 2012, 23:17 #28920

    We are told the march is not anti-Wenger and the board are "fair cop for abuse". Isn't this just another case of people sticking their head in the sand and absolving any blame that Wenger has for poor players, tactics and team performances?

  182. Tookland

    Dec 02, 2012, 22:58 #28919

    You're all mental - 10th is still top half of the table. Surely that's a cup?

  183. Danny

    Dec 02, 2012, 22:50 #28918

    i have been saying for years, wenger is only in to make money for himeself , the board and his silly projects I this guy wanted to win, then he should tell the board, i want to buy a particular player with quality, if not threaten to leave. we know he does not do that because is with the board. fire the git

  184. Cloggs

    Dec 02, 2012, 22:25 #28917

    @Fozzy's mate, Let's get behind Wenger till the end of the season? Let's give him some credit???? Why? For Bergkamp's sake why? Why should we show compassion for a manager who has been cashing 7M pounds for the last 7 seasons for taking us nowhere..? Us, the fans, who pay thru their noses to watch complacency on the turf, week after week, by a team consisting of merely highly overpaid players?, a team which has been gradually dismantled year after year by selling their top players, us being constantly fed with spin and drivel by OGL and the board. Like a fella gooner said to me the other day: when we moved to E******S (Or was it Ashburton Grove? OUR NAME, as we FANS, were invited to come up with a new name for OUR new temple of football?? FFS! us fans are the source of attendance revenue),we sold The Arsenal Soul to the powers of commerce. Hence the latest 150M deal with E******S, they aren't interested in you mate, they're only interested in money! And as long the global arsenal brand sells and attendance figures won't drop dramatically on a regular basis they won't give a rat's arse to what you think. Up the Arse!! But that will take a long time I'm afraid,

  185. itstartedin1975

    Dec 02, 2012, 21:43 #28915

    All things come to an end. The end has been coming for a few years now. Results and commercial profit. Those are the metrics. Results on the pitch have been poor. They drag down commercial results. Once those become unacceptable theKn Wenger will be dumped. That will be à few years.

  186. Russ - North Bank

    Dec 02, 2012, 21:26 #28913

    Very disappointed with the current form of our team. But booing them after every hiccup at home is futile. Perhaps if more people got off their seats and gave their vocal (positive) support perhaps the players might respond. Comparisons between now and the Terry Neil era are a bit wide of the mark,I think. Just a thought... Chelsea then Man city got £billion handouts, Man U have got the most successful manager ever. As a club we have moved round the block to a stadium that can hold nearly twice as many fans (in reasonable comfort) as Highbury. Liverpool, Everton and Spurs have done what exactly over the 7 year period. Any of those 3 clubs would like our playing record,new stadium and regular CL participation for 10 years plus. Support your team instead of trying to run it. Not one comment has said who could do a better job than Wenger.

  187. Nutty's Right Peg

    Dec 02, 2012, 21:19 #28912

    I like Howard's idea that fans write to Gazidis telling him they won't renew next season until Wenger goes.Perhaps someone at The Gooner could knock up or draft a standard letter we could all print off at home & send into the club. Over to you Kevin ??? I've thought for a while people should boycott any extra matchday schemes that benefit the board, ie. souviners, food & drink in the ground etc...

  188. Andyd

    Dec 02, 2012, 20:57 #28911

    Great article, just how most of us are feeling. Not many people seem to support Wenger anymore including me. In my 30 years of being an Arsenal fan I cant remember being so fed up and irritated. Every week is like groundhog day now. Why do some people not blame Wenger? This are HIS transfer policies, the board dont call the tune, Wenger does! He alone is responsible for this playing squad, I truly believe he made the final call on RVP leaving too. Due to my job I moved to Cornwall 2 years ago giving up my season ticket and dropping to silver, a painful decision made easier by how stale we have become under Wenger. I'm making a 600 mile round trip this saturday for the West Brom game and I dont even know if I want us to win becuase defeat might wake the remainder of the "Arsene knows" fools up from their folly. He has to go, as someone else said earlier in the thread, I truly believe anyone coming in could do a better job. Pep Guardiola wants to manage in England, what better club for him than Arsenal?

  189. cornish gooner

    Dec 02, 2012, 20:52 #28910

    The currently unwell PHW said one true thing, remember, "we don't need his sort here". Can't believe I am saying this but how perceptive - with the benefit of hindsight. Getting rid of Le Prof is essential but, in itself, will achieve nothing. I note that The Silent One is now attracted to the huge potential of Agri-business and has splashed £83million on a huge ranch. Our mission should be to tell him how sensible it would be to dispose of Le Arseneal asap and buy more acreage back home. After all, you don't get much for £83m in our inflated transfer market these days - it's certainly not enough to rebuild ou team of underachievers.

  190. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 02, 2012, 20:49 #28909

    Paul Heaton you certainly can speak for a hell of a lot of us.

  191. Joe S.

    Dec 02, 2012, 20:43 #28908

    Theo's Bikini line; glad to read that there are others put there who appreciate the classics and reagard Len Shackeilon's book as one of the great moments of sporting irreverence. The simplicity of it! Pure Genious. As for Jack; you should lighten up and accept the inevitable. Firstly Kroenke's fortune is built off the backs of underpayed US and Chinese workers. There is nothing pure about this type of exploitation. sSecondly, we were beaten by a better team which have been over achieving because the people in charge there are making the right choices that are clearly in line with the pride they have in their club as well as with the aspirations of their fans.

  192. fozzy's mate

    Dec 02, 2012, 20:38 #28907

    The main problem is that when the old board shoved DD out and saw Wenger as the golden goose prior to selling to MSS they promulgated the theory that the manager invented the club. For some youngest fans he is all they have known and the club would like all of us to think he founded the club. That has led to many feeling it is wrong to criticise which has led to seeping resentment caused by arrogance and complacency towards the fans, polarising opinion. Now when even his biggest fans can see time is finally up a vile atmosphere is developing. None of us wanted it to end like this but neither did the forest fans who saw Cloughie tale Forest from mid table old second division team to double european champions plus a handful of domestic trophies, want it to end with him as a shuffling wreck taking them to relegation. When its over its over we are none of us what we were in some facet. Nobody wishes Wenger ill but as Kev says in his headline how long can we keep going slowly backward? Let's get behind wenger until the end of the season and then wave him off with pride. The king is dead and all that. Even for a king of kings like Wenger the club will go on even if the propaganda pumped out by MSS, DDT and the rest doesn't say so.

  193. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 02, 2012, 20:30 #28906

    More records broken/set by wenger is there a trophy for that ?

  194. Paul Heaton

    Dec 02, 2012, 20:08 #28905

    I'm not sure how much more of this 'overachieving' I can stand..... And Jack @ 14.07, do you honestly think that all of those on here demanding change really just want their own Russian sugar daddy? All of us that were there under Terry Neill & Don Howe just want a "hollow trophy machine"? I can't speak for anyone else but I imagine that, like me, they would settle for an Arsenal that was trying it's best to win the competitions it was in with the resources it had. We pay the highest ticket prices in the world, there are millions in the bank and we're all meant not to mind that we are totally outplayed by clubs like Norwich & Swansea who almost certainly have wage bills less than half the size of ours? Every year Wenger says things will be better and every year they get a little bit worse. As the end of the summer transfer window approached he told us all that he would only sign a "top, top player" because we already had a massive squad and then he proceeds to play about 6 key players into the ground because he doesn't rate half of his massive squad. Give our squad to David Moyes and he'd get them in the top 4 no problem and try to win the domestic cups as well. Finally, Wenger, Hill-Wood and Gazidis might well be "decent blokes" but that doesn't mean they should be beyond criticism does it? Wenger has presided over a period of steady decline over the last 6 or 7 years and nice bloke or not his time is well up. You cling to your security blanket of what Wenger was before if you want to but the events of yesterday clearly woke a lot more people up to the truth that the time for change is long overdue.

  195. Wombledin

    Dec 02, 2012, 20:05 #28904

    How long will this continue? It will continue until its mathematically impossible for us to finish in the top 5. I say top 5 because the bar has been lowered, and while finishing in the top 4 is a 'trophy' to our owners now, qualifying for the Europa League is still good enough for Stan Kroenke I believe. If Wenger gets 5th place he still won't go probably. The only good news from the weekend was that Peter-Hill Wood will probably retire after his heart-attack.

  196. Greg71

    Dec 02, 2012, 20:03 #28903

    Neill lost his job after losing to a lower league club in the league cup and also included a home defeat v west brom,strange quirk of fate with our next domestic fixtures coming up ! Which sits better for the future a transfer or six in jan to achieve the fourth place the board covet or keeping the current squad/boss and having a total change in the summer ? Final ? did Arsenal really look at Michu in the summer .

  197. jj

    Dec 02, 2012, 19:46 #28902

    Yesterday was a great result for the club in the long term. It puts the Wenger issue out into the mainstream. The contributors on here have known what is wrong for a long time. Now there is no hiding place for the manager and his followers. The sweeping under the carpet has to end.

  198. mark from aylesbury

    Dec 02, 2012, 19:45 #28901

    Gooner-Girl, The problem is that no one within the managing structure has given any voice to winning trophies / competing for the league title or at least die trying as being the model for our achievement. Instead they are all lock stock behind Arsene Wenger saying 4th and qualification for the European Cup is the end goal. Indeed this is a point of differential between the Kronke, Gazidis, Wenger axis against Usmanov who has gone on record to say he wants to see us win trophies. We can perhaps leave Usmanov and his suitability out of this for the moment. I guess you and I and many others do not see constant 2nd best and lack of competitive spirit pervading the club as being what we want. So the only way we can change this (as they have the money and the power and don't want to change)is to be that very noisy and irksome flea in their ear, the mosquito they can't swat. This leads in turn to very bad publicity (for them) and embarrasses them in front of their corporate clients etc. To do this we need to protest. It is the only way

  199. LJB

    Dec 02, 2012, 19:44 #28900

    So Jack,what do you have to say about a team costing 100 mill ( thats what the rubbish on the pitch cost ) being completely outplayed bt a team that cost just over what OGL gets paid every year?( 10 mill)And what the hell has Chelsea or Man U got to do with it? There are 6 teams above us with a fraction of Wengers budget,what is your pathetic excuse for this? Also,is it not financial doping building a stadium with the BANKS money and massively increasing your revenue,whilst paying it off in little bits over 25 yrs? Chelseas owner has spent his own money on great players whereas Arsenals (former)owners have spent THE BANKS money on a new stadium, which increased the value of their shares which they then sold to make themselves fortunes,leaving Arsenal to pick up the annual bank tab.Tell me which of these is morally repugnant again?

  200. Ben

    Dec 02, 2012, 19:41 #28899

    Something I think that we are all over looking is Wengers total reluctance to change our shape. Its ridiculous now and its a complete joke. Ferguson, AVB and others will change a system of play based on the opposition, the competition and the fact that they are playing home or away. Wenger will continue with a 4141 regardless of the outcome. It was so obvious that Podolski and Gervinho would be subbed. We are creating very few chances. So why not take a gamble and bring out the DM (Arteta) and give Podolski/Giroud or Walcott/Giroud a run up top together? Girouds hold up play is excellent. But the poor lad has no strike partner and gets very little crosses into him. Wenger has to be bold and consider changing our shape. It blows my mind that every single time the subs come in and just go like for like. And it doesnt matter if its a league cup game with a changed lined up or an away game in Europe. Its always the same shape.... How can he expect a different result...? Even when we have more possession we are creating very few chances. I truly believe we have the players at the club that a 3rd place finish is a possibility. But why we continue to play with 3 central midfielders is beyond me? The aim with 3 CMs is to keep possession and hope that our ACM will get on the score sheet more often while creating chances. But its not happening. We have an excellent target man with no partner and no service. I can only hope that we put a run together in December. Wenger thinks outside the box and is a little braver and tries to vary a formation. He grows the balls to drop one our of central midfield players and is a little more direct in our play. Keeping the ball at such a slow tempo only gives an away side more time to reset with 2 banks of 4. Do you know Swansea only completed 29 passes in our 3rd in the 2nd half compared to our 142! The tempo is slow and predictable. And lastly I hope our board pull their finger out of their arse and give us a real signing. Something we can all be excited about and who is a real name. Not a scrap that the clubs who spend money didnt want. Huntelaar is 29. How about showing some ambition and spending 25mill on Edison Cavani! Real quality and not even at his peak. Ill keep on dreaming! Up the Gunners. Ben - Season ticket holder

  201. Its over

    Dec 02, 2012, 19:41 #28898

    wenger never was in the same league as Fergy, Mourinho, etc. it was the arsenal players 1997-2004/5 who we have to thank and a man called David Dein was more passionate about Arsenal winning than wenger will ever be. not enough of you realise how lucky wenger has been to arrive at Arsenal when he did with the crop of players and reserves. Arsenal are now finally going backwards at such a rate that all of the good past is being squandered. Wenger is a nice educated man from Alsace. Fergy is a tough working class scot from Glasgow. Fergy thinks like a football fan. Wenger thinks theory like a professor. he looks more at a players stats than he even talks to the player. his man management is awful. its over

  202. Nutty's Right Peg

    Dec 02, 2012, 19:28 #28897

    Someone needs to get a grip of my football club,cos Wenger certainly don't look capable of it any more to me.Don't think there's a lot wrong in midfield,but the confidence in defence looks to have completely gone.Is Bouldy being allowed anywhere near our back-four on the training ground, it's hard to believe that he is. As for Wenger's behaviour at the slighest appeal for a penalty, well, it's become a total embarassment, this is from a bloke who has spent most of his time here claiming not to have seen anything, yet suddenly he sees an alleged foul some fifty yards away.

  203. Dartford Gooner

    Dec 02, 2012, 19:25 #28896

    Hellfire and Bob, lay back down and let the nurse administer the drugs and drift off back to 2004. The time when Arsene and the team were unbeatable is gone. We need change and we need it now.Michu £2million, Gervinho £11million? who got value for money there.Ten years ago the players like Michu and others like the french signing at Newcastle would have been signed by Arsene but now he can't seem to find any bargains and is scared of buying big.The game has changed and i don't think Arsene can. All very sad that it should end like this

  204. Seven Kings Gooner

    Dec 02, 2012, 19:24 #28895

    First can I say how well Swansea played, they would have been a couple up by half time if not for our keeper. The result is no surprise to me, when you follow a team for over 50 years you know more or less after 20 minutes how a game will go and Swansea were so well coached and had a pattern to their play that our manager had no clue of how to break down. These results will keep coming because we are now ignoring the basic principles of the game - hard work, pressing, playing a higher line to counter teams like Swansea's possession play and more obvious, so many of our players are clearly playing out of position. The BSM do not have a focal point - may I suggest we demand one change and one change only, that change is that Dein is restored as CEO and it will be his problem to sort out the mess and if Wenger has to go then so be it. The changes will need to include much of the back room staff and the appointment of a world class coach. If Dein is not offered this position by 1st Jan 2013 we should boycott all home games, nothing but direct action and loss of income will shift this lot and the time has come for some proper "friction" with our supine board.

  205. Theopants Superstar

    Dec 02, 2012, 19:16 #28894

    To paraphrase Neil Kinnock’s 1985 Labour Party Conference speech: 'I'll tell you what happens with impossible dreams. You start with far-fetched philosophies. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a code, and you go through the years sticking to that, outdated, misplaced, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of an Arsenal Board and manager - an ARSENAL BOARD AND MANAGER!! – hiring executives to scuttle round the world trying to get sponsors rather than buying players, while handing out insults to its own supporters. I am telling you, no matter how entertaining, how fulfilling to short-term egos - you can't play politics with the peoples club, and with fans hearts or with their aspirations.' Yes, hard as it is to believe but Arsene Wenger and his 'followers' - as opposed to supporters of Arsenal Football club - has become our version of the Militant Tendency!!

  206. Alsace Lorraine De Totteridge

    Dec 02, 2012, 18:50 #28893

    Disrespecting Terry Neill? The first game I went to was a 3-1 defeat of Norwich at Highbury in the early 1980's. Our defence could defend, we had a proper balance of defensive and attacking mid field, a decent goalkeeper between the sticks and Frank Stapleton up front. I wasn't disrespecting the man at all. The time came when he had run out of ideas and the board recognised that he had to go. The same happened with George Graham and Bertie Mee and if you go back far enough, George Allision as well. Everyone has the day when they can no longer come to the crease and face the bowling anymore.

  207. Nozzer

    Dec 02, 2012, 18:46 #28892

    It is time for arsene to step down the players were not playing for him yesterday it was like terry Neills last few games. He sold our best players and arsene has done the same but he went four years without a trophy not seven and counting. If there is no money to spend well then wenger has assisted with the deception, if there is money he has mismanaged.

  208. CanadaGooner

    Dec 02, 2012, 18:25 #28891

    Kev this shouldnt be about 'dwindling numbers' of anyone who still thinks Arsene Knows Best. I will be very surprised if there is any arsenal fan out there who would be happy to see us lose at home to swansea just to prove a point; or are there? I have been one of the staunchiest supporters of 'reasonable and sensible' change, and that midway through a season isnt the best time to start talking about walkouts, protests or displays of dissent, as it will only lead to worse results. This season so far has brought one conclusion home: Wenger is totally washedout and we cant even offer him a 'director of football' role at the club as he will continue to meddle. he has been good for arsenal and should leave at the end of the season with dignity (wishful thinking?); my argument has always been who his replacement could be (you can see what's been going on at chelsea; even so, they are still winning trophies, which makea a huge difference), but now that managers like Pep Guardiola are available, there is NO REASON nor EXCUSE left to keep Wenger after the end ot this season; he really does need to go. And if he is half the intellectual he always claims to be, he should be the one offering to leave at the end of the season because he has been measured and definitely found wanting! there is no spite or malice; the man has tried his best, but at this point in time, needs to realise it simply isnt doing the business. he must leave at the end of the season, and any detriment to our immediate results wont be much worse than what we're seeing right now anyway, so the time for change is here for sure. Thank you very much arsene, we love you and respect the good work you did over the years, you're welcome back (as a fan) to the club at anytime; take care and happy fishing!

  209. Daany

    Dec 02, 2012, 18:01 #28890

    Since Hill-wood has a heart attack, he would step down and hopefully DEIN would be back we need him more then anything, hopefully steer the ruderless ship forward

  210. stevus

    Dec 02, 2012, 18:00 #28889

    Wenger needs to be relieved of his responsibilities, soon, in a decent and dignified way. His era is over; his powers gone. Who is the new George Graham out there? Screw the Chumpions League. What would a few years of domestic success feel like. One of the best things about 1989 was watching our collection of talented youths and focused, hungry, lower league signings holding a trophy that Man U had spent years - and millions upon millions of pounds - trying to attain. No further money should be spent on signings - or renegotiated contracts - until the new head coach is in place, lest we destroy any more promising talent in the meantime. Arsenal is bigger than ANY manager and our history began in 1886 not 1996.

  211. jjetplane

    Dec 02, 2012, 17:40 #28888

    Old french bloke in sleeping bag - no way was Neil that funny!

  212. Spurinpeace

    Dec 02, 2012, 17:05 #28887

    why dont you lot boycott the games? lots of (or should I say more) red seats will lead to sleeping bag man being sacked toute suite. mind you they'd still report the attendance as 60,038..

  213. RVP was right all along

    Dec 02, 2012, 17:01 #28886

    Nobody should be really surprised at our form this season.We were an average team last season we lost 10 games and conceded 49 goals but finished top 4 last season because of one man and he has gone.Not to our rivals as some have said.Its 7 years since Man Utd were are rivals.You cant lose a world class player like RVP and replace him on the cheap.Giroud tries but he is not top quality.How good was RVP?well he is the best player in a Man Utd team that is top of the league.Everything RVP said about the lack of ambition was true but the sheep who follow Wenger tell us he was a Judas.I support Arsenal FC not Arsene FC but somehow he has made himself bigger than the club.

  214. Theo's Bikini-Line

    Dec 02, 2012, 16:35 #28885

    Was going to write an article entitled 'Reasons to Keep Wenger' ala the famous chapter in Len Shackelton's autobiograpy which he titled "The Average Director's Knowledge of Football" and like the 'Clown Prince of Football', was going to leave the page blank. Not sure what else could sum up my feelings succently.

  215. Stevesam

    Dec 02, 2012, 16:23 #28884

    Not so long ago Shrek stated that he wanted to leave Manure, motivated by the expectation that he was worth more money. What did SAF do, he told the Board to pay him what he wanted and sign him on a long term contract. He knew the value of Rooney to the team and the Club. SAF was only interested in what was best for the team. AW was in the same position with RVP. What did he do, he sold him to the highest bidder, even if it was one of our most bitter rivals. AW was only interested in making money for the Club, not interested in the effect it would have on our results. How many winning goals and points has RVP won Manure this season so far – and no injuries! If you want proof – Wally also had one year left on his contract, was he sold ? Was he told to see out that final year ? RVP could still be with us, the best striker in the PL, but we sent out a message that any of our players have a price and we are only interested in the money. Sagna and Wilshere are up for sale. We shall make two ‘new’ signings in January – Henry and Diaby, with Wally leaving the club. SAF is only interested in football matters, he leaves business to others. AW is only interested in finance with football a poor second, that is why he should be sacked. SAF stated when he identifies a player he tells the Club to get that player at whatever it costs. Is 24M good value for us with 50M in the bank and a possible bottom half finish ? Yes we are sadly in decline because of the American style of Management and asset stripping. Yanks out now!

  216. I remember when Arsenal did care about its supporters

    Dec 02, 2012, 16:20 #28883

    I will restrict myself to a couple of observation, of which there are obviously many. Swansea came to town and taught us a lesson in what commitment ,pride and team work can achieve. They are also a club 20% owned by its supporters and have a seat on the board. You can speculate all you like but until the supporters obtain a place on the board we will never know the truth for the axis of Kronked/Ivan the terrible/Lawless/Wengered will continue to peddle their false arguments and analysis out of pecuniary interest.They have ripped the soul out of our beloved Arsenal-the mystery to me is why do we continue to allow it?

  217. Bob

    Dec 02, 2012, 15:48 #28882

    There has to be a happy medium between Chelsea, with Abramovich's outrageously trigger-happy appproach, and Arsenal, where the board are content to turn a blind eye to relentless year-on-year decline. How ironic that Chelsea fans immediately turn their wrath on Benitez, whose only crime is to have accepted the invitation to take his turn in the revolving door, while at Arsenal too many of our supporters exonerate a manager who, as Kevin has said, has filled a power vacuum and has been absolutely instrumental in the decline we have witnessed over many years.

  218. Gare Kekeke

    Dec 02, 2012, 15:28 #28881

    Full credit to Swansea. They deserved the win and the best team to visit Ashburton Grove in the league so far this season. Watching them was like watching Wenger’s great Arsenal teams of old. I’m not ashamed to admit that I was one of the many Arsenal fans who stayed behind after the match and applauded the Swansea players off the pitch and I congratulated one Swansea fan at Arsenal tube station. Interesting that a couple of Swansea fans on BBC radio’s 606 said it wasn’t a great Swansea performance. If that’s them being average, what are they like when they play to their full potential? The FA Cup tie against them should be very interesting. As for us, where do you start? Szczseny is the only player who can come out of the game with any sort of credit. Gaping holes at the back again, so much for Wenger’s defenders (not the playing ones) telling us that Steve Bould would bring in a new and improved defensive strategy. Weak in midfield, I was never convinced about Arteta as a holding midfielder and now it’s starting to show and the front three, impotent. Apparently, Gervinho is highly rated in France. No further comment there. What a waste he is for us. Glad to see the huge turnout of the BSM march. The revolution has started. Hopefully it will lead to an overhaul at boardroom level with Usmanov calling the shots. No point in Wenger leaving now. We do we get at this time? Let him see out see the season and hopefully we’ll in bring in a top class manager in the summer. To those who think the BSM are idiots who should not support our club, if you like patronised our by chairman and ripped off the rest of the board, then that’s your prerogative. Me, I have no time for any of them. Not even new blood in January would save us. I still think we’ll finish fourth but it will paper over massive cracks as the likes of Everton & Tottenham are just as inconsistent as us. I’m no admirer of Peter Hill-Wood but I do wish him a good recovery but that has to be the moment for him to step down as chairman. Bottom line, this can’t go on and change starting at the top has to happen sooner or later. Up The Arsenal!

  219. Bob

    Dec 02, 2012, 15:25 #28880

    Keep the faith guys it's just a sucky patch..arsene will sort it out...he always does. Arsene knows! Arsenal we're on you're side Our love we cannot hide Our hearts are open wide For nobody else but you bom bom bom Whether at home or away We'll come and watch you play.... Wenger's army!

  220. billthered

    Dec 02, 2012, 15:05 #28879

    Why is it that I did'nt really care about losing believe me I used to cry when we got beat and now it seems the red and white blood has completely drained from my veins.Something is drastically wrong with OUR club and it needs red adair to fix it.Just heard the cup draw Swansea away well I dont think we can beat them.Bradford away in the other cup I say play some 15 year olds and dont be surprised if we get Barca in the next round of the champions league then what.A long season lies ahead sorry Arsene you look totally inept go now and save yourself and us anymore embarassment thanks and goodbye.

  221. Jamie Hunter

    Dec 02, 2012, 14:59 #28878

    Excellent, if depressing piece Kev, thank you. The crazy thing is, if we somehow manage to win our next game, Wenger will be telling us it is because of the 'amazing spirit' this group of players have. I'm tired of his spin and bull ****, and more sadly I get the impression he is too. Dark days indeed,

  222. Highbury Boy

    Dec 02, 2012, 14:55 #28877

    The history books will record that Wenger managed Arsenal to 2 doubles playing the finest football seen at Highbury and that he oversaw the building of a new training ground and state of the art stadium. Unfortunately he will leave the playing squad in a much worse state than the one he inherited from the Graham/Rioch era.

  223. Peter Wain

    Dec 02, 2012, 14:55 #28876

    no urprise in either result or performance. With so little pace throughout the side we are so below average as a premiership side 10 place is about all we merit. And if we lose on Saturday it will be no surprise. If the players are tired why do we not play other players as we are always being told how large a squad we have, tiredness is an absolute copout. The real reason for the poor displays are the lack of ability most of the side possess. Gervinho is a joke Giroud is too slow and Podborski does nothing. We have no defenisve midefiedl player or an adequate left back or commanding centre half. Forget buying Reins we need to improve the outfield players and need at least 4 players.

  224. Ando

    Dec 02, 2012, 14:33 #28875

    If you listen hard enough, you can hear Stan laughing accross the pond, he just heard how Gazidis has convinced us to pay top drawer for another two years before the club deliver anything. What is it someone once said ''There used to be a football club around here''

  225. mbrad1960

    Dec 02, 2012, 14:27 #28874

    I'm so glad you mentioned that it is not just the board who are to blame for the decline which has been going since the 2007/08 season. What happens on the pitch is entirely AW reponsiblity, he buys the players, he agrees the wages, I'm sick and tired of everyone saying what a genius he is, he was so lucky to inherit the 5 defneders adams, bould, keown, winterburn and dixon, and throw in world class seaman. He was lucky that buys like Viera, Henry, Pires and Anleka paid off, they could easily have backfired, and Bergkamp was already here, Have a look at the rubbish players he has bought and wages he has paid, particularly in the last few seasons, the list is long. HE HAS TO GO

  226. Wake up and smell the coffee Gooners

    Dec 02, 2012, 14:25 #28873

    @Andy B totally agree with your post as i did the same 3 years ago after being a fan for 33 years and a ST since 1993.But i could see what was happening to our club.We have long since given up on trying to even compete.When i hear our manager say 4th place is better than winning a trophy my heart sinks.Would Ferguson ever dare say that to the Utd fans? Growing up i dreamed of us winning a league or a cup.Now our new breed of fans are being told pay up and be happy with 4th.But sadly we are fighting a losing battle because the majority of Gooners are still backing the Wenger/Gazidis/Kroenke model.What will it take for our fans to have some backbone and stand up and demand change at our club.

  227. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 02, 2012, 14:22 #28872

    An excellent heading kev although it's not the first time the question has been asked and won't be the last.Has the only person with the power got the balls to now step in and do something to stop this decline ? as OGL has stated in the press this morning that he has no intention of quitting i suppose where else would he get £7 mil a year for failure. Our beloved club's in trouble whether certain people realise it or want to realise it or not.Oh were not in trouble of the pitch where profits mean everything and where rich men are getting richer.The team were woeful alright and not for the first time, from the players to the manager who sat on his arse rubbing his hands muttering to himself devoid of ideas,(like his followers hoping things will come good)while the team were given a football lesson in every department at home, only getting up to flap his arms and complain.Well there can be no complaints ( even though there were,all the usual excuses we've heard them all before)we were given a lesson alright. As for the players where do you start ? With Rosicky standing by and letting michu shoot and score and not even make an attempt at a tackle disgraceful not fit to wear the shirt.Your right kev there's no point wasting any more words on wasters.It's sad but we've reached our level now and big big changes are needed to stop this decline going any further.

  228. Gooner age

    Dec 02, 2012, 14:19 #28871

    Few quick points: 1) fair play to Swansea they've now outplayed us TWICE playing proper football and we hardly took them apart at home last year. 2) the board can't let wenger issues affect the theo situation - someone has got to take charge whichever way it's going to go. 3) can 1 wenger believer please write an article telling me why I should keep faith as all I can see is issues at the moment and wenger has a history of very slow adaptation to address obvious problems.

  229. Jack

    Dec 02, 2012, 14:07 #28870

    The WOB's don't care about doing things the right way. All they care about is their Idol being better than all the other Idols. They don't care about winning with integrity all they care for is having their own Russian billionaire with his pot of gold built on the blood and sweat of others and his promises which come from the pit of hell. When Wenger and Gazidas leave and Hill-wood retires because of his poor health,all of whome I would never criticize as I think they are decent blokes. They will realise the hollow trophy machine they now have for a club is not what they hoped for and is now detested even more than the likes of City Chelsea and United.

  230. DW Thomas

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:56 #28869

    The team is a shambles. Wenger sits all game rubbing his hands with no tactical thought it seems in his head. Rather than pla an in form Giroud, he starts Gerv in the central striker spot! Gibbs is now our first choice left back when fit? Since when was he good? Arteta and Santi look tired. Szczecin played well, but where is our offense. I like jenkinson, he has heart, but is being given too much too soon. This piece Kevin is spot on on every point. No depth on the bench, no one looks hungry, and no one seems to really care. Wenger is way past it. Sad but true. How did he possibly think Cesc, RVP, Nasri, et al could go, not replace them, and we could still compete. People laughed when we said we were a one man team last year. People said,we'll fill in the goals. We only qualified for the CL because in our last game last season the opposing keeper had a blinder! Yet we still didn't improve the squad. In fact it is significantly worse. He has had his time to fix things. It is obvious he doesn't know how. Even this team should be much higher in the table. The buck stops with Wenger.

  231. johnnyh

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:54 #28868

    spot on kev. how anyone still believes in wenger is beyond me.quite simply his time is up. fair play to swansea,they gave us a lesson in defensive organisation and counter attacking. i for one have had enough,i dont care if we have to lose the next five,ten or fifteen games if that is what it will take to get rid of this wretched manager.

  232. Zbizz

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:48 #28867

    ONE DAVID DEIN, THERE'S ONLY ONE DAVID DEIN.

  233. Kevin Kong

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:46 #28866

    @ Darryl Coulter "Please do not disrespect Terry Neill. Some of us were around then and had a whole lot more fun that we are having now." Hear Hear Darryl-thats what I thought as well when I read that about Terry Neil. At least we had some Arsenal men in those days-Willie Young, Sammy Nelson et al. Not like this bunch of disinterested, unlikeable clowns.

  234. Tony Evans

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:39 #28865

    The torture we are enduring under Wenger is like death by a thousand cuts. Surely even the most die-hard Wengerite will now accept that this can not continue without some form of protest or by deserting the Emirates until Wenger has gone.

  235. gooner-girl

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:29 #28864

    No matter who is at fault - and none of us know - it is vile disgusting to boo the players and humiliate the manager on the field. All this does is undermine what efforts are being made and add strength to the opposition. Would YOU be encouraged in your work if boo boys pursued you in your place of employment? Probably not. It's clear that players and managers of any club thrive on admiration and wilt under abuse .. they're human beings after all. They will.know better than we do that they let us and themselves down on Saturday. Let's applaud the positives like an improved vermaelen and impressive schez and look forward to a better effort next time.

  236. Andy B

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:27 #28863

    About 4 years ago ,and after supporting Arsenal all over Europe for 25 years, I was faced with having to pay the cheapest season ticket of just under a grand. My financial situation had changed ever so slightly but the signs were there I no longer felt part of the club and I was being ripped off with the price of a season ticket for the lack of success we had and as proved was likely to be unless we spent some bloody money. Therefore I stopped going but it broke my heart having to do so but it appears many others are now facing he same dilemma. Before you all pipe up and say good riddance etc,etc just remember I supported us when we really were crap and if the club wasn't so bloody expensive to watch I would still be following them but we can't all afford over a grand each year. This doesn't make me any worse a supporter to those able to afford it but the point I'm trying to make is if we pay top dollar then we should expect more than we have ....... At least to challenge. I know ManUre are up North but their season ticket prices are so much lower and they continue to challenge and surely after the years we have been at the new stadium our financial might must be huge ? Otherwise we would have respected the board much more if from day one they admitted we would be struggling financially ......... But as if they were, as they knew most of us would bugger off. Please sort this out board or we early will become a laughing stock.

  237. Dan

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:11 #28862

    HELLFIRE, there's no point having all that when there is no team to play in that 60,000 stadium.

  238. Jed

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:09 #28861

    Kevin This is completely correct and I share your bafflement that there are still people out there who can't see that Wenger has become the problem. If we want change we have to target Wenger (Kroenke and Gazidis aren't going anywhere and they don't prepare the team for matchdays). I would like to see the next edition of the Gooner devoted to this topic and if you'd like an extra contributor I'd gladly write a page for you!

  239. mark from aylesbury

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:06 #28860

    Well done BSM you got massive publicity but whether you like it or not it is being linked to the fate of Wenger. I think one or two of us on here thought it was impossible to not to include Wenger in the protest. One thing Monsieur Wenger hates is critical attacks but he will not be able to avoid them as the press smell blood. I just hopcge he does the right thing and goes.

  240. Joe S.

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:02 #28859

    I thought I'd have a lot to say on this performance but like the editor and most of the other comments below or above it all seems pretty pointless to rant on about things we've been crying out about since the start of at least season 2011-12.Incredible to think that Arsenal are still a shot at fourth place, but what would be the point. I really don't enjoy watching this group of players and anyway isn't Arsene Wegner now preparing the ground so that 6th becomes the new fourth. Regarding Le boss I hold him complicit with Kronke, Gazadis,Laws and others in allowing the playing assets to deginerate in order to to take a share of the booty to come.

  241. Vietnam gunner

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:01 #28858

    That Arsenal conceded two late goals aint surprising. With the gunners pressing forward and leaving acres of space it is a sure recipe for disaster.You contrast that with the Swans defence which massed and stop the gunners.And yet Wenger still likes to indulge in his favourite hobby of merry passing. Why not a straight and direct pass like other teams do? The lateral passing maybe good for ball possession but until score you don't win games.Why not get Walcott to run from deep positions? Tactically Wenger has stagnated and the gunners will continue to struggle until they go direct.

  242. Spud

    Dec 02, 2012, 13:00 #28857

    As a spud I felt the article to be very honest, but I do feel that past glories are different in today's football market. I remember the invincibles every fan in the league does, it just doesn't happen on that budget any more. Look at the top 3 teams (in terms of concinstancy) Man U, man c, chel. Each of those guys will spend 30 mil on 1 player, until arsenal is bought by some rich playboy or some corporate club rapist arsenal will never compete for the premier league. You are living within your means and no longer invincibles, mortals like the rest of us.

  243. There is zero evidence that Kroenke/Gazidis stop Wenger spending

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:56 #28856

    Project Wenger has failed. Arsene, please leave with dignity before the irritations and frustrations of many fans turn into outright hate. Your noble but always-doomed quest to prove the whole world wrong by winning trophies on the cheap has gone on for far too long, and what the club needs now is a manager who is willing to use ALL the resources at his disposal in the pursuit of trophies. It's a more honest way of doing things, because the club belongs to all of us, not just you.

  244. Rob

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:54 #28855

    Good to see the BSM March went so well. Police estimate 1,500. Not sensational but it's better than sitting back and being used as a door mat week after week. So well done to all who went. Could we see 3,000 or more next time ? I agree with what you say in as much as Wenger won't be sacked. What he does in January will be crucial but don't rule out TH back for a third time and Bendtner coming back from Juve - because they've kicked him out, as he never plays - and being 'Like a New Signing'. But even if we do get someone in for the long term, this season will - as you said - 'wretched'. The crunch will come when Wenger's contract expires in 2014 and the run up to it, if things haven't improved. That will be the moment when the decision can't be funked. To be honest I'm dreading the moment.

  245. Fozzy

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:52 #28854

    Well done everybody (including today's Arseblog) for putting into words all the jumbled up and confused thoughts and emotions. The only players who seemed to be busting a gut were Happy Jack and Orville Cazorla who were at least looking to get involved, plus Jenko who was trying his heart out (please don't blame him for the second goal as nobody was willing to show for him) plus Chesney who somehow kept us in the game. It was really tough watching the rest as they just went through the motions. Perhaps it's got to get a lot worse before it gets better.

  246. Angry & Frustrated

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:49 #28853

    Where to begin after yet another gutless performance? How about after 15 games played, we are now 15 points off the top, and it doesn't take a mathematician to work out that at this rate we will end the season 38 points behind the eventual Champions! That is quite frankly as embarrassing as that sleeping bag Wenger wears on the touchline. If further proof were needed how hopelessly out of touch Wenger is, his comments that he still believes in the quality and spirit of his squad says it all. What quality & spirit?!?! He also said we were jaded, please explain why Swansea were not jaded who also had to play midweek, and how come no other manager in the PL at this stage of the season sites tiredness? In addition, if we were jaded who is responsible for such a situation arising in the first place Arsene? He is so out of touch with reality it's actually quite scary. According to OGL we must stick together, and strangely I for once agree with him, but from a completely different angle - us fans should stick together to get this clown out. Any Wengerites left what more evidence do you need to see we are rudderless, clueless and painfully pedestrian and going nowhere other than backwards into obscurity. Swansea deserved the points and good luck to them, they even had 56% possession on our turf, this at the home of the supposed kings of possession! Supporters pay Harrods prices for not even 99p store goods, and this simply must end now. I joked last week about our possible 7th placed trophy, but am beginning to wonder whether I was being over optimistic!!

  247. 6OONER PETE

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:44 #28852

    Did not waste my money attending the match but did go on the march despite it NOT being anti-Wenger. We need a few more results like this before any changes are made at the club. Short term pain for long term gain.And it will be painful finishing below the Spuds. Trouble is, how long is the short term pain going to last? What is it going to take for Wenger to go and changes on the board?

  248. Bard

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:42 #28851

    A balanced and insightful post Kev. You are right the problems run deeper than the odd ( now regular) rubbish performance. The structure is not working with Wenger the dictator. Who would be in charge of appointing another manager should Wenger decide he has had enough. ( he will never be sacked ). There is no one on the board even remotely qualified to know one end of a pitch from the other. I dont believe he can turn it around so realistically we hope he will have had enough by the end of the season. The fact that we lie behind Stoke in he table says everything about where we are as a club. And like you Kev I cannot get my head round those who believe Wenger is still the man for the job. He has been top drawer and for that I am grateful but he cannot be left to drag us further into the mire as a sop to his ego.

  249. Hellfire

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:37 #28850

    Arsenal have just signed the 3rd most lucrative sponsorship in the sport's history. And the most lucrative "legitimate" deal if you exclude Man City and Man Utd's deals. Another sponsorship beckons with Adidas. Arsenal have a brilliant stadium that has doubled match-day revenue. A stadium they have needed to pay for for most of the last 10 years and required discipline to do so. So, at last, the money is about to be spent. Remember, Arsenal needed to control their spending and reduce dent as quickly as possible. It's only now that those shackles are being broken. Don't worry!! Arsenal are about to rose again and you will thank Wenger for it. Don't worry!!

  250. Howard

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:34 #28849

    You know when its all over when you dont care anymore when we lose.As someone else said this really is as bad as the end of the Terry Neill management.The club has gone stale.A manager who has overstayed his welcome by 4 years,the players are not good enough the table doesnt lie.Except unlike Neill Wenger will NOT be sacked. Wenger has built an empire where he decides his own fate and amazingly he still has supporters.The fans forced Neill out we need to do the same with Wenger.Yesterday really was a missed opportunity by the BSM.You have said recently Kev that Wenger will be offered a new contract and i believe that will be true unless the fans revolt.It needs a campaign where ST holders write to Gazidis saying they will not renew their ST next summer if Wenger remains.Thats the only thing Kroenke will listen to a financial boycott.If Wenger remains it will carry on going downhill.Walcott and Sagna are gone Wilshire Cazorla will follow RVP and Cesc to pastures new with more ambitious clubs than us.Remember we were sold the Emirates that we would compete with the best in Europe we cant compete with the best in England.

  251. Darryl Coulter

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:31 #28848

    Please do not disrespect Terry Neill. Some of us were around then and had a whole lot more fun that we are having now.

  252. max

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:30 #28847

    Wenger has to go, but the problem is, who appoints the next manager, Gazidis? As the situation at the club deteriorates, so the chance of getting Pep recedes. A disenchanted married couple on the verge of divorce but afraid of what lies ahead. It will be a tough break-up, but we all know its over now.

  253. HowardL

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:28 #28846

    A truly awful day and deserved defeat. So much is wrong but it's hard to put a finger on one thing that might change it. However, to put things in perspective, for those who are unaware, I've just heard on Sky that Peter Hill-Wood had a heart attack yesterday evening (or this morning). I suggest that our thoughts for now should be with Peter and his family.

  254. munchbag hat

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:26 #28845

    A REVIEW: Szeznip, mertesacker-thanks for keeping it respectable. Vermaelen, Gibbs- vitamins and weetabix URGENTLY!! Two things clearer:curse of captaincy, and why Santos plays. Kieran, too many bum notes, TRAGEDY, a proper BeeGee. Jenks-I was waiting to see how many times a decent position for us near the oppositions pen area would culminate in a pass back and Szeznip hoofing it upfield. Thanks for saving me the bother of critiquing our own special brand of possession footy . Wilshere, Cazorla,Arteta-Having to try far too hard! Coconuts at the shy make more space for themselves than our forwards. Podolski, Gervinho-see above. Patting the ball sideways not what terrifies defenders the most. REALLY! Walnut-Is there an Emirates pitch trapdoor? Have you got a magic cape? what is the secret of your disappearing act??

  255. Kevin Kong

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:13 #28844

    "It was quite openly stated that this was not to be an anti-Wenger march and a couple of attempts to start such chants were quickly nipped in the bud." Freedom of speech and all that.

  256. Gooner SA

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:13 #28843

    I hope the directors were listening to the Black Scarf March's chants before the match of "sack the board" to allow the manager to say that top four is a trophy is nothing short of a disgrace for a team that has won two doubles & both domestic cups in the Premier League era.

  257. au revoir wenger

    Dec 02, 2012, 12:09 #28842

    for Wenger to blame tiredness again smacks of desperation.the man continues make himself look stupid and i am completely dumbfounded by the amount of Arsenal fans who still believe in him

  258. Gooner Fan

    Dec 02, 2012, 0:57 #28840

    The Swansea match was depressing to watch... Please, Chris or anyone who is still pro-Wenger, please bring up some irrelevant facts to cheer me up, I just don't have fight in me. Pls, don't bring up facts that actually matter like we are getting beaten by teams that have much smaller wage bill than us.

  259. Terry Tibbs

    Dec 02, 2012, 0:01 #28837

    Ferguson took off a player today after 30 mins because he was playing badly.That was a substitution Wenger would never make.An Arsenal player can be playing **** but they stay on the pitch until the 70th min.Thats the difference between a great manager who makes difficult decisions and someone who lost the plot a long long time ago

  260. Tommy

    Dec 01, 2012, 23:12 #28836

    Today was like the last rites of Terry Neill.The players are not playing for the clueless manager and the fans have lost faith in the team.Everything about the club has gone stale.There's no coming back for Wenger now its gone too far.The club needs a breath of fresh air with new tactics and new ideas and a manager not afraid to have a mass clearout and an end to rewarding failure.

  261. Fozzy's mate

    Dec 01, 2012, 22:33 #28835

    At full time today the atmosphere was where it was inevitably gonna be once we started selling the crown jewels every year. Sometimes the darkest hour comes before dawn. Let's hope our deserved mid table position kicks our greedy supine board up their extremely well fed asses. Give OGL some credit he said Swansea deserved the win. Let's hope some of the bulging eurozone bail out fund is used to add real quality and not the 2nd rate dross we saw today. We have the funds to turn things around but do they have the will?

  262. Alsace Lorraine De Totteridge

    Dec 01, 2012, 17:05 #28830

    We have just lost to Swansea City at home and will probably be at about 10th place shortly prior to Christmas. This is our true position under Wenger and he has taken us back to the dog days of Terry Neill's reign. He has been bailed out through good luck, the frailty of other teams and the exertions of exceptional players. The loss of Robin Van Persie has stripped away the final fig leaf. The push must now start in earnest to remove him. In the final days in Berlin in 1945, elements of the regime went around hanging those who were perceived to be defeatists and traitors. The AKB's have been unusually vocal of late and we must expect strong vitriol to pour forth from their mouths and keyboards in the coming weeks. Like a moribund EU sticking to the Euro no matter how much misery it causes, they will stick to the manager to the bitter end. We should ignore them and get much much louder ourselves until the objective is achieved. WENGER WENGER WENGER. OUT OUT OUT.