Vapid Arsenal

Online Ed: Poor start to 2013 at Southampton



Vapid Arsenal


I am having to come up with new ways of describing the worse side of the inconsistent Arsenal of 2012-13. Vapid was the word that came to me after watching the away game at Southampton. The definition of that word is ‘Offering nothing that is stimulating or challenging’ and its synonyms are listed as ‘insipid - flat - tasteless – dull’. Which I feel is a fair summary of what I witnessed yesterday evening. A sequence of six very winnable Premier League fixtures, beginning with the visit of Swansea has seen four wins, a draw and a defeat. 13 points out of 18. A chance to push on and limit the damage from a poor first half of the season had ended up mirroring a lot of what we had seen previously. And of course the Bradford debacle sits in the middle of that run.

I think there was only one shot that the Southampton keeper actually had to save during the course of the 90 minutes, and not many more that sailed high or wide. The moment a double substitution of Ramsey and Gervinho was made, you knew the game was up, and at that stage, it was damage limitation for fans that have given up on that particular pair. Let’s get out of this with a point. Tomas Rosicky was on the bench. One wonders whether he might have made more of an impact than Ramsey in replacing Cazorla.

Fatigue can’t have been the reason for the lack of quality we witnessed. Southampton were honest, and committed, but not really that good. Arsenal were afforded plenty of space at times, but did little with it. Theo Walcott registered the one shot on target, and it was his free kick that was deflected into the goal. But aside from that he seemed pretty ineffectual. Olivier Giroud put himself about a bit when he came on, but with limited impact. The January transfer window is open and the club need a number of new signings. There isn’t a single department in the team that would not benefit from improvement. With the funds available some intelligent spending could address some of the problems, but many do not trust the manager to spend wisely anymore.

Of last summer’s purchases the only unanimous agreement is that Cazorla was a good buy. The jury’s out on Giroud (if he was that good, surely he would not be on the bench) and Podolski has largely flattered to deceive. These players would have strengthened the squad had Van Persie and Song been retained, but the need to achieve profit (why? – every other club loses money) means the team seems to be in a constant state of transition. For curiosity, I looked back two years to New Year’s Day 2011 to see the starting eleven. Arsenal won 3-0 at Birmingham. Of the side, five have left the club (Clichy, Fabregas, Nasri, Song and Van Persie), and only four of the players started at Southampton (Sagna, Koscielny, Wilshere and Walcott). Sagna and Walcott are unlikely to be around after the summer. For the record, the other two were Fabianski and Djourou.

So the side stumbles into the new year with the knowledge that they will win enough matches to retain an interest in the race for a top four place, but that they will also drop points because they will sometimes put in a pig of a performance like this one. The goal conceded at St Mary’s was a horrorshow reminiscent of too many we have seen in recent months, with the ball played into a danger area and lost. Podolski was the initial villain, his error compounded by Sagna’s non-clearance. Suicide football. We all know how this can be addressed, but we all know it isn’t going to happen. It requires a change of philosophy by the manager in which the end result is a bigger factor than the method by which it is achieved. We go back to Gael Clichy at Birmingham in 2008 and the failure to put the ball into the stand when required. Sometimes, safety is a better option that possession.

But Arsène wants to do it his way. Beautiful football without spending more money in the transfer market than he is bringing in. The owner is happy as long as the balance sheets look good. For Kroenke, the trophy is the value of the asset. Arsène desperately wants to win, of that I have no doubt. But he wants to do it on his terms. And he is prepared to see Arsenal become also-rans to prove his point. The goalposts have changed over the years. Originally, the stadium move was to ensure Arsenal could continue to compete for the title. And the manager kept telling us the squad was good enough to do it – the best group he had ever worked with. Now, targets have changed. Third place is an incredible achievement because of the petro-dollars. However, ask yourself this. Manchester United are not backed by oil money. Arsenal used to compete with the Old Trafford club. Why are they no longer competing with Manchester United? The answer is simple. Sir Alex Ferguson will not settle for second or third best and claim it as a triumph. When something is not working he will make changes. Players are on very good wages, but there is authority and leadership. And no room for complacency.

I will end with an email from a regular correspondent Adrian Wagenaar, because I told him I would bring his thoughts to a wider audience…
“Whilst watching my new team Colchester vs Sheff Utd in August this year, their then player, Stephen Quinn ran the show, so much so that I wrote twice to Arsenal to recommend they sign him. I had the normal courteous reply but not having spent “half a day in football” I suppose the powers that be sniggered and deleted my e-mail. Anyway I have seen him since he moved to Hull City and he is not out of place in the Championship. He would make a great squad player and is already in my opinion a safer bet than Ramsey. I think someone will grab him this January, although I have heard he is a bit temperamental. He is one of those players who I think would give great support to our midfield trio – do try to catch him when you get a chance.”

Job done. Here’s hoping 2013 brings whatever you would wish for.

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  1. Petrovic

    Mar 19, 2016, 19:26 #86678

    If I'm honest positive Leicester results are more on my wish list to prevent that lot taking the premiership. I cannot depend on my soft millionaire wage collectors to have the mettle to do it.....

  2. mbg

    Mar 19, 2016, 18:38 #86669

    Oh dear the moistness and the whooping didn't last long at AKB central, well done Leicester you've done us all a great favour, so two weeks before we hear from the AKB's again.

  3. Spike

    Mar 19, 2016, 18:27 #86667

    Blimey! A win to stem the relegation form. Must have done the maths and figured out fourth place was under threat. It is too little too late and will not expunge the p1ss poor efforts leading up to it. No doubt the knicker wetters on Untold will see this as proof that we will now win everything for the next ten years if we just support Arsene and give Feo the armband full time. Happy days.

  4. jjetplane

    Mar 19, 2016, 18:07 #86665

    If Arsene FC can beat The Foxes anytime when the pressure is on - why can't Palace and the rest of them? The PL is corrupt and not worth winning. Having gone to the Nou Camp and come away with dignity intact as the cheating Catalans resorted to laughing at our boys because they knew it was the only way they would win? we travel all that way from Catalonia (silly name) and fatigue or no fatigue break the toffees into little chewy bits and now the march to the top is on. Arsene has now made IT his and the players want IT so now we just have to wait for middle of the table team Leicester to realise they were a bit silly even remotely wanting IT and are only there at the false top because of Arsene's fixture congestion and with Jack back in two weeks Leicester and the Spuds will wish they had never been born. Looking forward to the selfies after smashing Everton into a gooey mess and with two weeks off while the entire Arsene squad go global and keep the beautiful game alive. Great to have you back GOONerRoN. Seriously - I did not check Leicester's result - bet they lost ......

  5. JWE

    Mar 19, 2016, 15:55 #86652

    Easy win as predicted. Iwobi and Welbeck look like a good combination to me as they did in Barcelona the other night. Backed up going forward by Alexis and Ozil you will not find a better attacking unit anywhere in the league right now. Credit to Arsene for giving the younger forwards a chance as they look far sharper than Giroud and Walcott. Arsene FC for the title!

  6. mbg

    Mar 19, 2016, 13:10 #86647

    Hiccup, indeed, i'd say a win will see them back crowing we're up and running again, or something stupid like that, what they'll have to crow about is anyone's guess, you couldn't make it up, or maybe not, as they know their messiah's time is up regardless. wenger out.

  7. Hiccup

    Mar 19, 2016, 11:35 #86645

    Exeter, as Simon is always happy to finish 4th, I'm surprised he can't grasp the fact that the same applies to the manager, which then filters down to the players, and then filters down to the fans that also lack any ambition. To then talk about 'do the players want it' is laughable. Simon clearly doesn't 'want it' so just why the hell should he bothered whether the players 'want it' too? Anyway, massive game today. The result will determine whether we see the AKB's again today, or will we see them in 4 weeks when we next win a game?

  8. Nick

    Mar 19, 2016, 11:10 #86644

    To the poster who slated Alexis Sanchez as lazy and scathingly repudiated my defence of said player, Alexis is first and foremost a forward, that he is not" switched" on as defensively as might wish does NOT detract from his overall work rate, personally I think he is wasted out wide, he is not at home there as can be seen by his penchant for cutting inside with the ball, for Chile he plays either up front or just behind the main striker where his quick feet can be more effective and his shooting ability better utilized but we all know Wenger is obsessed with changing players positions and loves a player on the wing who is not really a winger, Ozil is far more lazy, the times he has bothered to track back and actually make a successful tackle can probably be counted on one hand , to blame individual players is wrong, they play in the main how they are set up and coached to play. Most of the goals we've conceded this season have come after bad decisions and poor passes where we have lost possession,or from simple long balls over the top, you have to conclude that lack of coaching on these situations is the problem, that and the fact that at present we do not have the personnel to play the type of close passing game Wenger favours, our best performances have come when we press and play at a high tempo moving the ball forward at pace, as a unit, Wenger does not like this style however preferring the slow, slow, quick, quick slow type of build up like moving chess pieces round a board , this is not only boring it does not work in the Hurley burley of the premier league except against the poorest and most naive opposition, especially with the playing staff we have available, we won't see change until we change the man in charge .

  9. JF of Aylesbury

    Mar 19, 2016, 10:39 #86642

    Sorry chaps "Times UP" WENGER OUT and Patrick Vieira in please with DB10 as No2.

  10. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 19, 2016, 10:03 #86641

    I don't get this interpretation that Simon has turned. Quite the opposite, he describes those wanting Wenger out as 'frothing at the mouth', claims the title race is still on, suggests a replacement manager perhaps suitable a good few years down the line, and even suggests Wenger could get another contract. You can almost feel his hope and yearning for this. Like Fox Mulder, he wants to believe.

  11. Smithy

    Mar 19, 2016, 9:10 #86639

    Eddie Howe would be a inspired choice. Get him before one of our rivals does. Eddie in with Keown or big tone would be a great combination.

  12. Hiccup

    Mar 19, 2016, 8:40 #86636

    A win is a must today to smoke the AKB's back out. Anything other than a win and we'll have to send out search parties to make sure they're OK.

  13. HowardL

    Mar 19, 2016, 8:33 #86635

    "Show you want it", "Make it yours"; can you hear Wenger saying that? Admittedly he made Arsenal one of the most entertaining teams on the planet, possibly the most in 2003/4 - until the money men took over football. Unfortunately Simin, Wenger is just not cut out for the sort of motivational environment that is needed. We may win today, more likely we may lose. It's a great pity, but that's life and now it's truly time for Wenger to leave. Eddie Howe would be a breath of fresh air but if we dally too long waiting for him to prove it you know what will happen - Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd etc will just flash their chequebooks ...

  14. mbg

    Mar 19, 2016, 0:13 #86633

    ArseneKnewBest, 91600, he done that all right, not me or you, post of the day.

  15. John F

    Mar 18, 2016, 19:36 #86627

    My apologies to Eddie Large I thought he had joined Dick Emery upstairs.Low is 10/1 joint favourite with DB10 to take over Wenger.

  16. mbg

    Mar 18, 2016, 19:30 #86626

    Hiccup, yes, Arsenal show you want it, make it yours, I haven't laughed as much for a long time. You really couldn't make it up, but we know someone who can.

  17. mbg

    Mar 18, 2016, 19:20 #86625

    Mark from Aylesbury, i doubt very much good old Simon has done that mate, as you say we all know his previous, like a few more on here at the moment (regardless what they say) good old Simon would keep him in the blink of an eye. Sad or what.

  18. John F

    Mar 18, 2016, 19:02 #86624

    I am just wondering if Brendan Rodgers is hanging around hoping to get a call not my choice but I can imagine he could be Wiggys.I did enjoy the two dead comedians,fat Sam and an empty chair suggested as viable options.All together now "Wenger must go get in Low".

  19. Hiccup

    Mar 18, 2016, 18:50 #86623

    Monty Prython scriptwriting at its best. Thank you Simon. And now back over to Arsenal Circular to trump this excellent sketch. Will he use our favourite "look in the whites of their eyes" which always gives me bigger goosebumps than the "show you want it" or "make it yours". With westie, baddie and coldsore all gone AWOL, I miss my fix of laughter that they provided. Thank you Simon for keeping rock and roll alive! God bless you.

  20. Alsace

    Mar 18, 2016, 18:14 #86622

    Yes, made up stat. It is too much to ask for. Don't you realise that the business model is mediocrity, even though we could achieve silverware within the same budget. Like the very best AKB's the club is scared of change.

  21. Arseneknewbest

    Mar 18, 2016, 17:56 #86621

    Unai Emery or Eddie Howe? I'd take Dick Emery (honytonks!) or Eddie the Eagle instead of wenger! There are plenty of coaches out there who'd bust their anus paid anything near wengerball money along with the chance to run a bit, albeit rapidly fading, club. Here's another one into the mix - Marcelo Bielsa, who is about as good a football technician as they come. But right now, there are thousands of people who could do a better job than the present incumbent. More narrowly, think of any club's manager in the top half of the PL and they look a better bet than weng (except LVG and mark hughes). Someone could even parachute in from rugby union and be more effective than the strasbourg strategist. Disrespectful? Maybe - but he fooked his own legacy down the drain, not me.

  22. Mark from Aylesbury

    Mar 18, 2016, 17:35 #86620

    Have to say good old Simon would make a great Politician. We have seen him do a complete vault face to take a Wenger out position within a blink of an eye whilst never admiting his previous he must stay at all costs over countless previous articles. Quite brilliant I salute you sir!

  23. Hi Berry

    Mar 18, 2016, 17:22 #86619

    JWE - Personally I wish we were still at Highbury - the few occasions I've been to the Emirates has been an awful experience with a complete disconnect from the team....and when did a football crowd become an 'audience'? I don't think many on here give a flying one about our 'global brand' and just wish the club and team were honest in its endeavours to make a decent attempt to win the title for its local support. Sadly a lot of disillusioned Gooners who did their time on the North Bank don't recognise the club from the one that they supported in their youth.

  24. mbg

    Mar 18, 2016, 16:53 #86618

    goonerSol, it'll certainly be bad if we ever wish wenger was back, no matter how bad it gets I hope that's the last thing we ever wish for.

  25. JWE

    Mar 18, 2016, 16:37 #86617

    Comfy win tomorrow 3-1. Everton are a poor side. WENGER TO STAY WAY BEYOND END OF CURRENT CONTRACT. The Emirates crowd love the guy really no matter what you might read on here. ARSENE WENGERS RED AND WHITE ARMY!!! The Emirates would never be built let alone full week after week if Arsene was not at Arsenal. Arsene has taken the club to a whole new audience, one on a global level and one that has a genuine brand identity. We would never have achieved any of that under the stewardship of Bruce Rioch. There is clearly no-one else who could take on as much as Arsene has and we should all be forever greatful for the effort and time that our current number one has put into the cause. Arsene has a job for life and your a fool if you can't see that.

  26. mbg

    Mar 18, 2016, 16:21 #86616

    jw, it's the usual AKB optimism/bullshyte that they always spew to try and take the heat of they're messiah in times of need, and we know all about their optimism.

  27. Ron

    Mar 18, 2016, 16:17 #86615

    Nick - In Howes case id just sooner see him make a good job of managing a Club like, say WBA or Saints first off. He seems very much wedded to Bmouth and the type of role that job calls for right now, hes doing a great job too.He stepped up at Burnley and it didn't go well for him, for whatever reason.

  28. Croker

    Mar 18, 2016, 16:09 #86614

    I enjoyed this article until I got to the Eddie Howe part. Promising, yes but he could n't make a success of the job at Burnley.

  29. mbg

    Mar 18, 2016, 16:07 #86613

    I said yesterday how the AKB wengerites will be on squawking, crowing, and gloating in defence of their messiah if Leicester grab defeat from the jaws of victory, low and behold they can't even wait and see, their predicting it, just like their messiah they really have nothing left now, how they must be suffering, long may it continue, wenger out.

  30. Bard

    Mar 18, 2016, 15:44 #86612

    Simon you do seem to have had a change of heart which is good to hear but I dont buy this argument that all the 'good' managers are taken so in effect lets stick with what we have got. Wenger was unknown when he arrived. Neither am i going to get into the 'well who then 'debate. The bottom line is that if we could get someone to coach the team to defend properly and develop some mental toughness throw in a top striker and we would be there or theraebouts straightaway. What happens at Everton depends on which Arsenal turns up and whether any of our strikers discover some form. I have no idea to be honest

  31. Le Grande Odeur

    Mar 18, 2016, 15:02 #86611

    Nick. Maybe I'll tell the Missus "I wasn't switched on" when I haven't done the dishes next time! I'm sure she'll see the difference. Sanchez runs about a lot but is lazy defensively

  32. jjetplane

    Mar 18, 2016, 14:45 #86610

    Both the 14 and 15 FA Cup were bone trophies thrown to Arsene's Poodles in order to keep the dream alive. The gream is the Emirates experience which means good food at Jamerson prices and lots of penalty action .... during the 'warm ups' where you can see the Ox, Wally, Little Jacko and the Welsh son of Nazarethrhytswyth stretch and stretch until SNAP! Anyway - back to the food and a new line in 'pulled pork' (ouch!) sourced from one of Stan's ranches which are subsidised by the Emirates experience .....

  33. Nick

    Mar 18, 2016, 14:41 #86609

    Why is Eddie Howe not ready ? George Graham had only managed at lower league level when he came to us, that turned out rather well didn't it ? If he had the right assistant and a director of football say Viera we would still be able to attract top players, Mourinho never played at top level it didn't hold him back, players will respect a coach who knows what he's doing and whose ideas and vision are the right ones, yes we may have a difficult transition and rebuilding period but as long as we recognise that and buy into what the new man wants to do it will come right in the end,it shouldn't come to that though with our resources providing the board back the new bloke and.put their money where their mouths are ! If they don't then we shall know for sure that the club is rotten to the core!!

  34. Mark from Aylesbury

    Mar 18, 2016, 14:04 #86608

    Koeman or Bilic both had time now to acclimatise to the Prem and both as Ron has said are tough enough. I kept on hearing we are after UMRE but if that is a Wenger tip, that's a negative for me

  35. Frank

    Mar 18, 2016, 14:01 #86607

    We could lose all are remaining games finish out of the top 4 and Wenger will still be manager next season.Simon the likes of you still havent got it have you?Arsenal are no longer a football club they are a business.Wenger showed that with £200m in the bank we signed not one outfield player.No other big club (can we call us still a top club?)in world would keep a manager with Wenger's record.Well done Leicester

  36. anthony walters

    Mar 18, 2016, 14:01 #86606

    let me get this right then fa cup 2015 was a virtual trophy was it ????? that said to move the club forward and get the best out of this group to start with which arsene isn't fresh ideas under a strong hungry younger character i do believe for various reasons timing premiership experience ,winning stuff with major clubs ,good, defensive organisation and his name as a great player will attract players .ronald koeman for me as stated previously .

  37. mbg

    Mar 18, 2016, 13:58 #86605

    SKG, yes mate all that long drawn out drivel (are you sure your not badarse) to tell us something we already know.

  38. goonersol

    Mar 18, 2016, 13:53 #86604

    Oh dear, gooners mentioning Big Sam, really, are things that bad.....Wenger to go by all means , But Big Sam, God NO. he will take AFC back 50yrs and we will all wish AW was back.....get real some of you. Talk up someone who may fit the brief ( Koeman,Simone maybe) but not Big Sam with the Little ideas.

  39. mbg

    Mar 18, 2016, 13:43 #86603

    So your just going to chastise your messiah ? a small slap on the wrist and tell him not to do it again ? then no doubt put your arm around him and tell him it's alright. Don't give up the day job, if you have one. Obviously now you can make it up.

  40. Ron

    Mar 18, 2016, 13:40 #86602

    Agree its too big a step for Howe. I dont mind big Sam too much but as AFC coach, id sooner the team not bother having one. Sams good at Clubs like Sunderland where hes the big cheese. Hes too old anyway now and his best times came at Bolton. Hes never been the same since. The stop off at Newcastle did for him as it will for Benitez. Bilic has surged to the top of the best prospects queue. Koeman too. Both seem very grounded and made of stern stuff.

  41. Peter Wain

    Mar 18, 2016, 13:32 #86601

    Eddie Howe is no where near ready to manager Arsenal. The players will say what has he won and he will quickly lose the dressing room. We need an experienced manager like Lowe or Alladyce.

  42. Nick

    Mar 18, 2016, 13:18 #86599

    Sanchez " lazy" ??? He may not be in form but the bloke never stops running and chasing, he may not be switched on defensively but to call him a lazy bugger is not just uncalled for its plain wrong ! Personally I think he has become disillusioned and is trying too hard to do it all himself as he simply doesn't trust in the quality of those around him or the managers plan for the club and how we play, Ozil,yes he IS a lazy player his mind set is that we bought him to set up chances which he provides in abundance but others simply waste them so he sulks, Walcott just doesn't seem to know WHAT hes supposed to do, in slow tempo games he is just a passenger, as his main asset speed is nullified, our best performances have come in the games vd manure red and blue and Leicester, where we played high pressing high tempo football which as we all known is anathema to Wenger who likes football to be played like chess, a boring game whose philosophy does not transfer to English football, most British sides that have had success in Europe have played a savvy version of the up and at em football that we Brits love, we however try to out think teams in Europe instead of bludgeoning them into submission this of course is all down to the manager who has seen HIS way FAIL regularly but refuses to admit he is wrong, his greatest failing is his own hubris !

  43. mbg

    Mar 18, 2016, 13:04 #86598

    So it's a nine game season now is it ? it wasn't all that long ago it was a 38 and then a 20, you couldn't make it up, it doesn't matter how long the season is or how many games there are 50, 60, 70, your messiah will or would never win the league, has it not sunk in even now ? Like I said before you and your ilk deserve wenger. You really couldn't make it up. wenger out now.

  44. jjetplane

    Mar 18, 2016, 12:39 #86597

    Let me get this right - you are saying it is vital we beat Everton, followed by two weeks of selfies and celebrating winning another virtual trophy to go alongside the one we got for beating Leicester (twice!) to go with the Community Shield where we finally put that Chelsea rubbish stat to death and Wenger gets a new contract and you repeat yourself every two months by saying: 'show you want it/make it yours blah blah my name is Simon (really!) and please can I have a job writing Arsene's withering remarks to a safe audience....' That's it! SIEsTA! Zzzzzzzzzzz errr Remember - the only thing that is definitely in a bag is Wenger! Working that zip oh yeah ....

  45. Damian

    Mar 18, 2016, 12:38 #86596

    Cant help feeling that most of us want to see us lose and implode. Yes I think we need a change and Wenger should go, but who do we get in? All the main faces are lined up for next season.

  46. Mark

    Mar 18, 2016, 12:27 #86595

    who would you take in these positions ? Lukaku or Giroud? Stones or Mertesecker Baines or Monreal Barkley or Ramsey Barry or Coquelin Lennon or Theo... Thats a large part of the Team where our Players are not top 6

  47. jeff wright

    Mar 18, 2016, 12:27 #86594

    Tbh, I can't see where all the optimism that we will beat Everton is coming from. It's true they have not been great at home this season but there have been signs recently,they beat an inform Chelsea 2-0 in the Cup ,that they have found some better form. Martinez is another Pelligrini /Wenger pass the parcel type so there could be a lot of passing going on between the two sides. I don't think that we will beat Everton from what I have seen of our performances since last November and that includes the 3-1 defeat in the Nou Cmp the other night - that predictably has been talked up as though we had won the game. Deja vu the 2-2 at the spuds. Who are now 6 points clear of us and playing Bournemouth at home next up while we play Everton away. Our title challenge is in reality just the same old fight for the 4th place trophy .Watch out for those Hammers Arsene!

  48. anthony walters

    Mar 18, 2016, 12:25 #86593

    fight for top four more likely i just looked at the rules and only three league places if city and liverpool win both champs league and europs cup.unlikely i'd say !!!!!

  49. Ron

    Mar 18, 2016, 12:21 #86592

    Simon - Quite a few Evtn fans would drive Martinez to N7 tomorrow. Like Wenger, theyre of the view that hes obsessed by 'philosophy' its why they concede so much. Whats 'an Arsenal character'? Is this another allusion to this so called 'class' the Club is supposed to have that others dont? Thats a bit old hat now isnt it? In my view, whatever the character, AFC needs the antidote to AW however its packaged. Long term Coaches are a thing of the past now. Nothings permanent and there will always be bigger clubs than Arsenal for managers to move too. The game is full of transient players and coaches few of whom have affinity or the wish to give loyalty to Clubs.Its not such a bad thing as i see it. Too much longevity breeds complacency and too much of a comfort zone or at least it has in our case!

  50. Mark from Aylesbury

    Mar 18, 2016, 12:20 #86591

    JWE and fat Pete are lovers who live by the seaside village (Sizewell B) in a caravan.

  51. Mark from Aylesbury

    Mar 18, 2016, 12:09 #86590

    Something is up with the team and I suspect it is clique driven and split with some parties not wanting to put themselves across the line for the present Manager. This reminds me of UTD under Moyes. Either the players do another meeting and try and pull off a performance like Spurs or sadly I see it being a 2-1 loss with even us being in front at some point in the game. My guy feel is a further loss

  52. anthony walters

    Mar 18, 2016, 11:59 #86589

    it would be a monumental change in form results and performances for us to have a remote chance of winning enough of our remaining matches to win the title .equally a major loss in form for both spurs and leicester which is damn unlikey.it's more likely a fight for 4th and possibly 3rd if liverpool win the europa cup.

  53. CB

    Mar 18, 2016, 11:53 #86588

    Is Diego Simeone an Arsenal character? What you really mean is, is he an Arsene Wenger character. Most definitely not. He has plenty of mental strength and spirit, you know, that stuff that Wenger talks about but most definitely doesn't have. But I'd say he has more of the true Arsenal character than Wenger has and I`d be delighted to see him become the manager.

  54. Highbury Boy

    Mar 18, 2016, 11:49 #86587

    Simon;what a silly article. Nonsense to believe that "the club's short-term and long term future depends" on what team turns up v Everton. What if we win and the other teams around us win? Will you say "chastening times ahead if we don't beat Watford in our next match? If we all draw. What then? All lose. What then? Your thinking is very short term. Some of us and in fact most on this site have concluded long ago that there needs to be managerial change. That's why it was nice to see the banner AFTER the 4 nil win at Hull. People like Ian Wright were shocked to see it after the win but you can't look at results in isolation. You have to judge him ,his transfer policy,tactics etc over seasons. BT Sports and the media generally will want to big up the importance of the game so that people watch it or buy newspapers. The last refuge for AKBs is "Be careful what you wish for/fear of the unknown /there's no-one good left out there".Arsene himself was very much unknown and unproven when he arrived at Highbury. So in conclusion I am saying the result at Everton is not important to the big picture:we need a new dynamic manager to bring in new ideas in May. Obviously any manager will be restricted by the main shareholder who puts the value of his shareholding above trophies but unless someone comes in to buy his shares at a high price he isn't going anywhere. The only change can be in the manager.

  55. Ron

    Mar 18, 2016, 11:44 #86586

    AFC will be fidgety and nervy on the week end. Goodison Park isnt a place to be when a team feels like that even if its isnt the best Everton side. Its closed in and atmospheric. This team doesnt handle pressure like that very well. We all know that. We ve all seen them buckle so often. The game v Ertn depends on how much interest Evrtn have. If they get at AFC im expecting us to just wilt which is bad for me as i ll be sitting there with a few Evertonians!! If not and the FAC is their main thing, at best a draw for us im guessing. Martinez is under pressure there by the way. Lots of Evtn fans been hounding him out all season, so hes not without pressure and it may make him play safe in which case AFC could benefit. Im going 1-1.

  56. Mark

    Mar 18, 2016, 11:30 #86585

    I am sorry but some People are still delusional and not really seeing where the Team is at. Everton are not Barca who stand off and let you Play. Everton know if you clsoe Arsenal down there is no Plan B. very best we can hope for is a draw. We dont have a Team of warriors or high Talent and the fans need to see more clearly. Hes so desperate that hes thrown in Iwobi so that we all start to think ''oh he Looks good..''. But that is simply not the same as a Team that Comes out week after week and performs to a consistant Minimum Standard. Which is simply not Wenger's Arsenal. I will be back on here tommorrow afternoon to remind you of my words. We are very weak and we will be in a fight to get 4th.

  57. Le Grande Odeur

    Mar 18, 2016, 11:25 #86584

    Everton hold all the Aces as they are strong where we are weak. They have Lukaku who will give any of the central defensive partnerships trouble (especially Mertesacker) due to his power and pace, and Martinez has had him drifting wide to target Monreal with great success on the last 2 visits. Baines, Coleman and Lennon will exploit the full backs and the lazy buggers (Sanchez, Ozil, Wally) who don't put a shift in defensively. Clouseau will need to employ some tactics to combat them and we just know that isn't going to happen.

  58. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 18, 2016, 11:08 #86583

    It will take more than a 'semblance of form' to win the title. AFC would have to win all 9 - a tall order for a team in scintillating form - whilst hoping Leicester lose 3 of their remaining 8 (or an equivalent combination of draws and defeats). This is not at all plausible, even less so for a team that was turned into a gibbering wreck (to use Simon's phrase) by the prospect of a title challenge before the daffs came up. As for the manager, I believe an empty chair until the end of the season would see AFC make a better fist of what remains.

  59. Nck

    Mar 18, 2016, 11:06 #86582

    The trouble with our side is that faced with a top quality team or even a mediocre one in a PRESSURE game they freeze like rabbits caught in headlights, this attitude must be imparted from the manager, so can we win nine games in a row ,yes we are capable will we ? I very much doubt it unless there is a sea change in attitude ! Good shout for Eddie Howe, I myself have touted him before, he likes attacking football, and has worked wonders with few resources at Bournemouth, he is young and hungry to build a reputation with the right assistance he could be the real deal for us !

  60. jeff wright

    Mar 18, 2016, 10:50 #86581

    Familiar stuff from Simon he keeps it simple and the usual optimistic predictions guff from Jamerson - posting under yet another name. You couldn't make it up.

  61. RedPig

    Mar 18, 2016, 10:43 #86580

    Simon - You mention that the managers who had the potential to replace Wenger have taken jobs at other clubs. I do hope you are not suggesting this is a reason to persist with Wenger because isn't us persisting with Wenger the reason we missed out on those managers in the first place? How much longer must we endure Wenger? And how many more potential replacements will go elsewhere? Personally I would take anyone right now on the basis that they are not Wenger. So yes to Eddie Howe ... even Eddie Large will do :)

  62. Charles

    Mar 18, 2016, 10:38 #86579

    If we win at Everton then anything is possible, Ranieri's Chelsea team were the biggest bottlers of all time until Wenger took Arsenal down the same route. If we lose then the season is over, it doesn't matter if we finish 2nd or 17th it's all failure and won't change anything. We need someone with experience of managing in the big time so Mourinho,Hiddink,Bilic or Koeman fit the bill.

  63. Torbay gooner

    Mar 18, 2016, 10:34 #86578

    Simon, sounds as though you would be happy with another 4th place and for Wenger to see out the last year of his contract. If so what would be the point of that? The club desperately need new impetus for next season, not the one after. Managers like Koeman or Simeone would provide that. I personally don't believe that Martinez would be good enough for a club the size of Arsenal. However, as we know Wenger is only half of the problem. The other half being the board who I would not trust to appoint a decent successor. I think Joseph Heller wrote a book about it!!

  64. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Mar 18, 2016, 9:48 #86576

    Awful article!! The usual AKB guff!! When will these deluded fools ever blame wenger?? HE CANT WIN THE LEAGUE WHEN LEICESTER CITY AND TOTTENHAM ARE THE MAIN RIVALS!! Let that sink in. He has no more excuses and that is why a lot of fans who were pro wenger have finally turned this season. To a 70-30 ratio arsenal fans want wenger gone!! Thank God a lot of them have seen the light!! Wenger has ben exposed big time as a joke of a manager who hid behind oil money.. Leicester City's squad costs no more than 10 million there wage bill is 20 million pounds. We have a bigger wage bill than Tottenham as well! Martin Kweon believes Tottenham will win the league! Wengers job is untenable either way!! He has to be forced out. I always ask the remaining wenger loyalists this; do you think wenger can win the league again? And if you don't why should he stay at arsenal? And if you do believe he will what evidence have you got to back up that assertion?? Very simple question and most answer that they don't think he can win the league again! So that should tell you all you need to know about the wenger loyalists!! They are like trump supporters I.e cult followers!! Thank God they are now a minority at arsenal!! The players are not even playing for wenger anymore it's obvious. The excuses for this old senile man have run out big time. His blatant narcissistic egotistical personality has been on show for the last couple months with his abuse of the fans etc. His literally abusing the fans because he believes he should not be criticised loool. That is what kings believe and dictators act like. Wenger reminds me of a tinpot dictator who is digging in and refusing to relinquish the power as it's too salivating and their egos won't allow them to just give it up it's over. The only way these type of dictators are removed is by force. Unfortunately for wenger it's going to get nasty for him. I don't think his narcissistic ego can handle criticism specially from his own fans.

  65. JWE

    Mar 18, 2016, 9:37 #86575

    Arsenal to be Champions come May. Take a look at the fixtures, it is ours still to lose. Arsene will come good in the end and all will be forgotten. Just let the great man do his work and the doubters will be embarrassed. Palace to take points off Leicester this weekend and the wheels will start to come off mark my words.

  66. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 18, 2016, 9:32 #86574

    Whilst everyone knows the situation at the club, let's not try and pretend Everton are Real Madrid. They've actually been pretty crap all season and we should get something from this game. But don't flame me, I'm not suggesting this is the kick start to a 9-game winning streak that sees us swatting away the opposition week after week on the way to another title.

  67. Anyone but Wenger

    Mar 18, 2016, 9:14 #86572

    How many times have we seen this movie play out and yet you are still predicting a different outcome. A fresh Everton will beat a tired Arsenal. We all know what Wenger will say in the post match interview. We will secure 4th because West Ham have the Cup distraction, Man U are sh*te and Liverpool are too far back. And the pain continues into next season.

  68. Greg

    Mar 18, 2016, 9:04 #86571

    Simeone, koeman, Eddie Howe..all better picks for me. Managers able to set up their sides tactically, motivate etc etc. To be honest, anyone would be better for me now, if only to stop this malaise akin to a slow death via cyanide poisoning!!

  69. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 18, 2016, 8:59 #86570

    LMFAO Show you want it Arsenal. Make it yours. I think the players have had plenty of opportunity to do that already Mr Rose-tinted glasses. Gotta hand it to this guy we could be 3 points off winning the title with a GD 15 worse than the leaders and he'd still think we could win 8-0 and they'd lose 0-7. Tell me Simon do you work for the club's marketing department by any chance

  70. Greg

    Mar 18, 2016, 8:54 #86569

    Simon- so you wouldn't take simeone over wenger??!! Shows what an akb you still are sir!

  71. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 18, 2016, 8:49 #86568

    "I have long felt that Wenger's barometer for a successful season is whether or not we qualify for the Champions League - that brings in the big money" There is no flies on you is there Simon, you deserve a "Nobel prize" for stating the bleeding obvious. It has taken you 10 years to work out what we all knew after a few seasons, after Arsenal made the dreaded move. What hope is there?

  72. Tony Evans

    Mar 18, 2016, 8:49 #86567

    Chastening times are ahead whether or not we beat Everton. I have a feeling Leicester will win the league at a canter, and what does that say about Wenger when you consider the resources at his disposal. Next season expect a revived Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool to step up and with Westham and Spurs also looking better than they have in many a year where does that leave us under a manager clearly devoid of ideas and inspiration, and well past his sell by date.

  73. Arseneknewbest

    Mar 18, 2016, 8:40 #86566

    Simon - You are to objective writing what George Osborne is to disabled people's welfare. It was all going quite well until you started on your rabies/foaming mouths metaphor. I suppose in your world view, you and your AKB chums such as Jameee, LeeKFC and the late Reverend Badarse are all the level headed people who think the status quo is acceptable while, er, the rest of us have rabies. Brilliant - are you a vet by any chance? The thing about rabies is that it's a fairly short term disease rendering the sufferer "brown bread" within a few days after excruciating pain. Well the AMGs have been suffering some indescribable pain mate, but it's been going on for rather longer than a few days. So you need a different metaphor for your one-sided offerings I'm afraid. Otherwise, you sound like Mr Gazidis. If we beat Everton tomorrow - I'll eat the postman, woof woof. Keep that bowl of water away from me!

  74. Chesham Gooner

    Mar 18, 2016, 8:32 #86565

    Simon I think you've been brainwashed...everyone knows us as the club who qualify and embarrass ourselves season after season in the Champions League...I'd rather we were in the record books for winning domestic trophies instead of being European also rans.

  75. John F

    Mar 18, 2016, 8:20 #86564

    I was listening to a phone in after Everton lost to West Ham and the Everton fans were criticising Martinez for the way they defend,he was the same at wigan.I would go for Low if he could be tempted to get back to club management.De Boar,DB10 combo,Koeman are my other choices. Leicester are 11 points clear and they have a nothing to play for Chelsea last game.One question Danny Mills was asked yesterday was do you think Leicester would be top of the league with its current squad if Wenger was the manager,he said no and I tend to agree.I do think we could finish runners up due to the Spuds remaining fixtures and city's CL involvement.That is the question if we finish runners up would that be deemed a success for Wenger.With Pep coming ,Maureen possibly at utd,Chelsea with a new manager,resurgent Liverpool under Klopp and poch at Spuds does anyone think under Wenger we will win the League next year.

  76. Made Up Stat

    Mar 18, 2016, 7:59 #86563

    Actually found myself nodding once or twice reading this. But then 'Champions League football is the minimum requirement ..... Domestic trophies are a bonus'. And that's what's exactly wrong Simon. I don't want Arsenal to be part of the also-ran list for the Champions League and I don't want domestic trophies to be bonuses. I don't want a 'that will do us for this year' business model. I acknowledge that winning Silverware isn't a God given right, but I just want Arsenal to COMPETE. Christ, is that too much to ask for?

  77. Gooner Fan

    Jan 08, 2013, 9:00 #30521

    @Chris: Recently, there's articles where Wenger admitted he has as much as power in the transfers and wages as the board. So what are your thoughts on that? Because you (along with the pro-Wenger crowd) always claim it's the big bad board that always have all the power and restrict Wenger from spending

  78. Chris

    Jan 04, 2013, 19:55 #30404

    @Paddy Stood Up - fair enough, I agree it must be annoying for many and most of it isn't really relevant to what's being discussed.

  79. Paddy Stood Up

    Jan 04, 2013, 19:11 #30401

    @Chris and SGRB and Theo - Whilst you all make some good points, it's getting a bit repetitive making them over and over and over again which spoils the comments section for others who understand your point the first time round and whether we agree or disagree, we don't need to read it again and again. Perhaps you'd be better off taking your debate onto the forum?

  80. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 04, 2013, 18:37 #30397

    @ Chris, I think it's sad that you resort to this (yes, ad hominem) 'intellect' tack again. Clearly there are quite a few of us who comment here who are intellectually capable, including yourself, and it just shows you yet again attempting to reduce your opponent's argument by claiming intellectual superiority. It puts you in a bad light and I'd suggest you give up that particular strand of your approach if you want to maintain any credibility. Aside from that, okay, remove the word 'complacency' if you wish and just stick to 'desire' and now address my 1, 2, 3.

  81. Chris

    Jan 04, 2013, 18:20 #30394

    @SGRB/Theo- Given that one of your favoured tactis is to attempt to make me look dishonest to discreditmy arguments, for the sake of clarity, I'll point out that it is a favoured ploy of yours to take two comments out of context and put them together misleadingly to attempt to portray the author as hipocritical. Pretty idshonest I'd say. As for the 'wriggling' that you and Theo are fond of referring to - this is what you call it when someone makes an argument that you can't counter - again, dishonest I'd say. Finally, Theo says "however he wriggles around we are now only at best the fourth strongest team in an appallingly weak league. What more needs to be said?" I feel this sums up the deptth of his arguments -Arsenal are fourth, he doesn't like that, Wenger must be to blame. The convolutions of his mind as he attempts to show that (even believes he has!) are amusing, but hardly convincing.

  82. Theo Jensen

    Jan 04, 2013, 18:01 #30392

    @Chris, you have failed to address my line of reasoning consistently. You make sweeping claims about my entire articles and comments which I do everything I can to back up with as strong evidence as I can. But when something like chairman and CEO quotes, backed up with strong evidence 2009 funds were not used to balance a deficit, you shift the goalposts and argue that it can't all be spent at once, for example. I don't really think it's very in depth or intellectual to make grubby little comments about 'science/history' etc. and I never requested you to read my article. I simply said it dealt with claims you had made, but on skim reading you felt qualified to assert that it was "conjecture" which really says it all. I'll leave it there thanks because I don't think it's worth debating someone who has already made up their mind and is totally inflexible on that basis. So I won't see whatever you comment subsequently I'm afraid.

  83. Chris

    Jan 04, 2013, 17:13 #30390

    @SRGB/Theo - for some reason, my last replies to you were not put up. But I will return to point out that yet again you have not been honest in recounting what I said or how I said it. a) I said that life was too short to go through the accusations you were making about the way I was debating, not to counter your arguments (which I have in most part done). The accusation that you repeating your own assertions rather than pointing out flaws in mine is not incompatible with that - another example of you concocting things to accuse me of. b) It was your hypocrisy that I found took the biscuit, not your arguemnts. And the problem with using that phrase more than once is...? c) judging Theo to have a condescending style but not having the intellect to back it up is not ad hominem, it's a genuine assessment fot he quality of his arguments (which lack depth and appear to be deisgned to show the conclusion from the outset). Finally - in my reply to SGRB that was not put up I addressed all the points you subsequently made in your last post and really can't be bothered to go through it again (obviously this is an example of my duplicitious debating style....) but I will point out that Wenger did NOT say that the team were complacent - in fact he said that no, he wouldn't say that. No matter how you dress it up, it's you guys do the wriggling / goal post shifting / making inadequate arguments and no matter how many of you hunt in packs, most objective readers (of which I imagine there will actually be very few at this stage) will see that.

  84. Theo Jensen

    Jan 04, 2013, 15:24 #30382

    @Stroud Green Boy- completely agree. He's thrown in the towel with me now anyway and just gone ad hominem, as he did with you on that post the other day- however he wriggles around we are now only at best the fourth strongest team in an appallingly weak league. What more needs to be said?

  85. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 04, 2013, 13:22 #30374

    @Theo & Green Hut, as I've learnt from experience, you can go on forever like this with Chris. He ties himself up in hypocrisy (e.g. 'life is too short' to go through your arguments but he accuses you of not 'making a serious attempt to explain why you believe my critique is flawed') yet will then simply deny the contradiction. 'Taking the biscuit' is another favoured phrase, an attempt to make your argument seem somehow ridiculous. Here are some 'known facts' for us however: 1. In Wenger's own words, Arsenal's performance against Soton was 'complacent' and lacked 'desire'. 2. Arsenal regularly put in performances of this ilk. 3. Wenger either cannot or will not do anything about the above, as it has been going on for a long time now. Either way, it's an indictment on his management. This much at least we know, whatever clouds of confusion and doubt his defenders attempt to hide him in. The truth is on the pitch, as Bill Shankley said.

  86. Chris

    Jan 04, 2013, 10:08 #30355

    @Green Hut - If I was to answer every point and question you posed, I would spend all day on here - it is unreasonable to demand responses as you do, just as it is unreasonable for Theo to request his articles are read in the manner of a condescending professor (without the intellectual gravity to back it up). In answer to your one specific quesiton though, there are many quotes from Wenger, Gazidiz etc talking of financial restrictions, not being able to compete with big spending clubs, a new era of lesser financial restrictions etc - it is so obvious that I cant believe your are asking. Even if he wanted to, there a a million reasons (which have been gone through on here before) why he wouldn't come out and state that he had been denied funds - in fact, being a good employee, he would likely simply work within the budget set by the board, would he not? All of which support the view that Wenger has been financially constrained and is not sitting on piles of money - although as I have also previously pointed out, even if he is, future investment of resources may make more sense than wasting them at a time when unlimited expenditure by some clubs menas we still wouldn't be able to compete. I really don't want to get tied up in your convolutions so won't go on. Clearly, I am going to deny all the accusations of improper debating that you & Theo are making but life is too short to properly go through them. I will point out that you & Theo repeatedly ignore all my decently formulated arguments and simply repeat your own without making a serious attempt to explain why you believe my critique is flawed, even though there limitations have been pinpointed. Seriously, Theo's argument about the decline of the PL and only limited investment being required is so flawed it's not ture - but still he repeats it becuase he can't grasp where he's gone wrong. Perfectly indicative of an individual who clutches his ideas at the expense of objectivity - precisely what he has accused me of! You guys take the biscuit!

  87. GoonerDave

    Jan 03, 2013, 15:13 #30322

    I find it quiet remarkable that question marks are being asked of Wenger's substitutions.I have posted comments on this site before regarding his thinking and logic, which to me make no sense whatsoever i.e Hleb stays on for Pires in the Champions league final.Now having been witness to numerous equally baffling decisions it seems the rest of you have finally caught up with my assumption that he does'nt know what he's doing.

  88. Theo Jensen

    Jan 03, 2013, 14:32 #30321

    Arsenal made an operating loss of more than £30 million last season. The issue is not whether he has a negative net spend, it's that his timing and content of transfers has been shoddy and that as a result we have declined. You already agreed with my second point so now you're trying to wriggle around saying he can't spend it all at once. Even if that was true it is not legitimate- he spent £14m on Squillaci and Koscielny who were complete liabilities in the 2010-2011 season, for example. Regardless, you've shifted the goalposts quite significantly; if you actually read what I said about misjudgement, you'd see that he got likely got very lucky, and no one has provided any counters to those claims individually yet. Essentially you had no reason or right to label my article “conjecture” when you skim read it and couldn't even back up why that was the case. I think you'll find that despite your patronisation, what's important is not what you think, but how you think. You show all the signs of being someone whose argument is employed to fit a pre-determined conclusion. We are now a team struggling for fourth place in a league that is hopelessly weak, probably lagging behind even Serie A. We have declined and it was avoidable. Almost all the star players have left and you're trying to defend a manager who clearly has not used the available funds because of his own misjudgement.

  89. tpm

    Jan 03, 2013, 14:19 #30320

    @chris, please explain if AW is still such an astute coach and best man for arsenal why he wastes what resources we do have in giving Johan Djorrou a new contract last year, when it was obvious to all but the most myopic he is a poor player, and nowhere near good enough even as back up for a club of our supposed size/ambitions? likewise ramsey, when his current deal had more than 2 years left to run on it (and thus no danger if he ever did become even average, that we would get into a 'walcott scenario')and he has shown nothing for 2 seasons now.

  90. Green Hut

    Jan 03, 2013, 12:02 #30312

    @Chris- It's probably best left to others to judge which one of us uses clear straightforward facts and quotes to state their case and which one clings to the vague and the unknown. And I enjoy discussing Wenger's merits and deficiencies during these last 4 wasted years with the AKBs that I know, but I struggle to have a grown-up debate with you for the reasons I mentioned earlier, and as you've declined to answer my question for the second time, I'll leave it there.

  91. Red Mist

    Jan 03, 2013, 12:02 #30311

    We go into the new year 6th yet closer to the relegation places than the team in 1st place! Says it all really.

  92. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 03, 2013, 10:06 #30301

    @Chris, yes I think Wenger is responsible for the high churn of the squad but no, I don't think we have seen much in the way of team performances this season. For example, the 7-3 against Newcastle was not a good overall team performance, the defending was poor but a few of the attacking players did well to take full advantage and fill their boots. I find it hard to think of many good, solid team performances these days, and it's this which mitigates against consistency. Tell me, in the interests of displaying the full range of your own views, as you say you're not a Wenger acolyte but just interested in fairness and balance, do performances like that against Soton, and the regularity with which they crop up not make you angry? Would you not say these are the manager's fault?

  93. Chris

    Jan 03, 2013, 9:15 #30300

    @Green Hut - I'd say it was an example of me sticking to the known facts in the face of your convoluted and unsustainable argumentations - but that's just my opinion. You really don't like anyone coming here with a reasoned view to support Wenger do you? The fact you give them no credence despite them being at least equally compatible with the observable facts than your own position reveals where the real cult lies.

  94. Chris

    Jan 03, 2013, 9:02 #30299

    @Theo - well I guess that's the difference between history and science then! The figures are consistent with a number of hypotheses, another one being that the books have to be balanced to prevent Arsenal making an operating loss. Please also note that I have never said you are wrong about Wenger self-imposing a zero net spend, I simply said I had not seen any convincing evidence that that was the case. Nor, given the black hole that is the operations of Arsenal plc, do I expect to see any. That's why I keep an open mind - whilst (as in my first post on this page) agreeing that if that is the case, "he is letting everyone down". That's pretty balanced in my opinion. Wenger is on record as saying of the team last season, "I honestly don't believe that team had any more in it than third place" - hardly indicative of a fatal misjudgement of squad strength is it? You and many others on here attempt to portray Wenger as a bumbling incompetent but inmy opinion it's only yourselves who look daft as a result. As long as some of the folk who post on this site (yourself, Green Hut, SGRB, Alsace) comtinue to turn the discussions into something between the undegraduae debating society and a Wenger lynch mob, you'll get further and futher down your convoluted lines of thought and away from a reasonable perspective. So with all due repset, I'd suggest you keep your accusations of "use of credentalism" and "unreasonable, projective assertions" etc where they belong. You wil make not one iota of difference to the managaerial succession at Arsenal no matter how strongly you campaign, and nor will what I post make any difference either. The idea is to have a discussion about football is it not?

  95. mark from aylesbury

    Jan 03, 2013, 8:21 #30298

    Chris, you have well thought out views though to my mind it is a bit Wenger theology. My view is that for Wenger this is 3 seasons to long. In your view when will it be too long ? I wonder if anyone will back him if we get much closer to a decade of no trophies. Ps please God let it be true that Wengers Paris flat hunt mean he is preparing to leave!

  96. Arsenal

    Jan 03, 2013, 3:58 #30297

    Time for Usmanov to take over. I don't know why some Gooners are so proud to have Kroenke as our owner. I mean this is Arsenal for Gods sake not Tottenham. Why should we accept mediocrity when we have over £100m in the bank. USMANOV IN KROENKE OUT We need to make some Kroenke OUT banners and boycott games.

  97. Ambient

    Jan 03, 2013, 2:32 #30296

    There are so many crap players in the arsenal squad it seems even the manager is having problems deciphering the wheat from the chaff. If he fails to make significant signings during this January transfer window i cannot see how further Wenger can go as manager of Arsenal. Personally speaking i think Wenger has been at Arsenal well past his sell by date and he should have gone about four seasons back, had he done so i'm convinced we might have retained the services of many of our top players who deserted us. I will keep saying this until i'm blue in the face... Arsenal will never win another trophy whilst Wenger remains manager of the club. I don't think any players stay at the club simply because Wenger is the manager.. those days are long gone. We must step up the quality that supporters demand and so should the club as a whole, if we only have mediocre ambition then maybe we all as supporters have to accept we shall become a mid-table team who flatters to deceive but never wins a thing and not feel so wounded every season with the exodus of key players. We cannot get rid of the dead wood and the players we want to keep we keep losing... walcott will be next and that will be the final nail in Wengers coffin. Do you know of any club in the world who would allow their manager to go what i suspect will be eight seasons without a trophy and in the process destroy the reputation of the club, not to mention his own career. The club and it's supporters have to be greater than the sum total of those who run things upstairs and the manager himself.

  98. DW Thomas

    Jan 03, 2013, 2:24 #30295

    I love that word, vapid. Mettle, another great word, which Arsenal lack in bunches! How on earth do you replace Cazorla with Ramsey and expect to win? That best ever team quote maybe epitomizes Wenger these days. What a slap in the face to the only undefeated team in the last 100'years. His utterances are beyond defendable. We desperately need players of high standard and character to replace those that don't. And look at RvP. He is united's best player. His sale is/was complete stupidity. And don't give me any bollocks about the $$ on that one. What business does a club have to exist if you cannot and will not pay players as they improve and perform with class?? RVP could surely win United the title back this year. That makes two players in a row who left and won major titles. And no I didn't forget Fabregas either! Each time we see hope, the walls come crashing back down. The clock,is ticking Arsene. Where will Jack end up when he wins his first taste of glory? And I mean the real kind,not third place.

  99. WRINKLY VOYEUR

    Jan 03, 2013, 1:24 #30294

    It would be extremely satisfying to watch you suffer. Your screams would gratify me for a long time.

  100. Green Hut

    Jan 03, 2013, 0:11 #30293

    @Chris- The 'Which Way Now' thread (Dec 6) is a good example of you either moving the goalposts, ignoring relevant points, pretending you don't understand (that's a regular one, no-one else has this problem so often) or exaggerating the claims of others to make them look stupid, in this case assuming one poster believes that Wenger knows he is deliberately weakening his team by not spending the money he has available. I'm sure Wenger made the quote you say but 'pockets full of money' can mean any amount, and that's the ambiguous way Wenger likes it. Yes, Hill-Wood is an embarrassment that the BSM want removed from the board, but do you really believe he was mistaken about or even made up what he clearly said about Wenger (it was perfectly straightforward and in-context)??! If so, then there's nothing more to be said, I'm sure you've got a Cult Of Wenger meeting to go to. PS Why didn't you answer my question?

  101. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 03, 2013, 0:10 #30292

    Stevesam spot on about ogl negligent management over the keeper situation.And yes the rot has set in even deeper with all the yes men,we'd all like to think Brady at least would have a pair of balls but like you say their all sitting to comfortably.

  102. Arsene Wenger's Wig

    Jan 03, 2013, 0:07 #30291

    Shhh! I'm not supposed to exist, but Chris, the emperor with no clothes says: 'the check's in the post, and keep up the good work!' Now, all together... There's only one Arsene Wenger, there's only one...

  103. Chris

    Jan 02, 2013, 23:04 #30289

    @SGRB- How many seasons have the individuals making up the front six / seven (Poldolski, Giroud, Walcott, Ox, Arteta, Cazorla, Wilshere) had playing in the same team as each other? Out of 21 combinations per season (ie the total will be 21 for each season that they all play together) I estimate that the current total is 4 (walcott one season with Ox, Arteta, Wilshere; Ox one also with Arteta). In my hunble opinion, you do yourself no favours by stating that Wenger makes the team less than the sum of its parts. You could fairly criticise him for the high turn over in the squad that has resulted in the unfamiliarity of the players to each other but clearly, Wneger has done brilliantly the fashion as many very good TEAM performances from this squad as he has done . If that sounds like hyperbole - think of it as a Cult of Wenger member striving for balance and fairness.

  104. Theo Jensen

    Jan 02, 2013, 22:44 #30287

    @Chris, 'in my opinion' well there's the trigger then- the quotes of the CEO and chairman present the theory, and I analysed his use of funds from 2009 which elaborated the practice. And the article did precisely refer to 'a few years ago' in terms of necessary investment. Once it was reasonably established that funds were available, it was possible to pinpoint mistakes in Wenger's calculations of squad strength, and that is why we are now competing for fourth place, in a currently very shoddy league.

  105. Chris

    Jan 02, 2013, 22:33 #30286

    @Theo - I don't doubt for one minute that yo think you have provided evidence and that you have dealt with the points yo thought I had made "quite effectively", I simply don't agree with you that you have prvodied hard evidence or comvincing argument. I looked for it and on an (admittedly quite quick - it was a bit of a wordy article) read, I couldn't find any. I'm not sure what "Please don't make unreasonable, projective assertions of such a kind in future discourse" means to be honest so I can't categorically state I didn't do it but I don't think I did - I was simply pointing out that there wasn't any meat to the arguments in your article - in my opinion. As for your argument re net spend - the relative strength of the EPL is (logically) irrelevant, especially as evidenced by CL results. Arsenal are still competeing agaisnt Man C, Chelsea, Man Utd no matter what level compared to other European clubs their level fo expenditure puts them at. And those clubs have still been spending masses more than Arsenal on wages + transfer fees - it doesn't follow that only modest investment would be required to compete. For what its worth - I agree that 3-4 years ago modest investment might have made a difference - beucase we might then have held on to Fabregas, Nasri, RVP....

  106. Chris

    Jan 02, 2013, 22:15 #30285

    @Green Hut - you believe incorrectly. The quote I'm referring to is the one which says - well - exactly what I wrote. And perhaps you'd like to refer or quote just one example of me exaggerating the clims of other to make them look ridiculous? I look forward to reading that. As for PHW - why does he now become a font of truth? Last I read on this site, he was an embarassment that the BSM wanted removed from the board....

  107. Green Hut

    Jan 02, 2013, 21:16 #30284

    @Chris- I believe the quote you're referring to was the one where Wenger said 'Does everybody think I have £100m in my pocket that I'm refusing to spend?'. Well no, no-one thought that but most people believed from reading the club accounts that there was £50-60m in the kitty that he could have spent quite easily without sending the club into administration. He simply exaggerated the perfectly reasonable notions of many to make them sound ridiculous, which, with respect Chris, you try to do on here quite often. Wenger should be a politician, the amount of spin we get from him is staggering. Re Peter Hill-Wood's quote, you refer to it as 'just one piece of evidence', but I don't know what would be a more conclusive piece of evidence. You have a long-standing and current board member stating clearly that Wenger has in recent years deliberately not spent the 'quite a lot' of money available (something you found inconceivable) because he couldn't find anyone that would improve the team. A team that was and is winning nothing. No-one is saying that he's deliberately failing, just that his judgement of an ever-changing game is poor, and has been for quite a few years. I could throw in Gazidis's constant public assurance that there is money to spend in EVERY transfer window, or Kroenke's statement at the AGM that he has NEVER refused Wenger money, and if you still believe in the 'restrictions' then I'm sure you always will. But Chris, I ask could you give me ONE Wenger quote where he says that he has no money to spend? Just one. Nothing ambiguous, no spin, just clear and to the point such as the quotes I've mentioned. I look forward to hearing from you.

  108. Stevesam

    Jan 02, 2013, 20:36 #30282

    To me the most worrying concern with AW’s negligent management is, the lack of a top class keeper or any decent cover. If Chesney fell ill before the game Martinez would have started. After the end of January and the window closes, Chesney gets injured, who shall we have in goal, Mannone, Flappy or Martinez. Does not matter how the team defend, would you feel confident with one of these light weights in goal. Remember Mannone and Norwich or Schalke. I also have my doubts that Chesney has been coached to the required level. We shall not buy a keeper as AW does not want to ‘kill’ Chesney. The problems are not only with the players, manager and board, it goes deeper. Peyton, Banfield, Promo, Brady, Court, all within the comfort zone. All Wenger yes men.The malaise and decline at the club is progressive until the Yanks & AW are out.

  109. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 02, 2013, 20:26 #30281

    This current side aren't a team in the true sense of the word, they have a few talented individuals who occasionally turn it on, as we've seen recently. It strikes me the manager is damning himself with his own words when he says they lack 'desire' and were 'complacent'. We see performances like this with such regularity, who else does he think should be held responsible but himself, and so why should he not be held to account like any other manager would be? Why does he get to carry on regardless? Wenger makes this 'team' less than the sum of its parts.

  110. Theo Jensen

    Jan 02, 2013, 20:08 #30280

    @ Chris- conjecture? I back up the PHW claim (and you didn't mention that I cite repeated Gazidis claims...) with subsequent transfer activity and it fitted perfectly! He chooses when to spend the money essentially, and it's how he's spent it that has failed, not the amount. The second point is that you go on about relative net spends etc. but it's ridiculous, because the EPL is provably (through analysis of Champions League results) MUCH weaker than it was a few years ago. So only modest investment would theoretically have been needed to sustain, let alone improve the squad. The rest of the article regarded his (poor) judgement of squad strength which again was all backed up with reasons for why I think that. Please don't make unreasonable, projective assertions of such a kind in future discourse.

  111. Bemused van Beffudled

    Jan 02, 2013, 20:03 #30279

    Is Gervinho for real? When he came on against Southampton, he reminded me of Max Wall. I honestly thought he was impersonating a chicken. The Gooners around me in the ground were laughing through their tears. He is a 'footballer' who can't control a ball, can't pass, can't shoot, cant beat a player, can't head the ball and can't tackle. I think he's probably Eboue's revenge. We all make jokes of ourselves from time to time but the trick is to do it once only. Whenever Gervinho comes on the pitch we are making ourselves out to be clowns again. And there's no excuse for that.

  112. johnnyh

    Jan 02, 2013, 20:01 #30278

    what more can we say about how average arsenal have become? it really is depressing. my heart sank when gervinho and ramsey came on. i wouldnt let wenger spend another penny of the clubs money in the transfer window,he has bought enough rubbish. wenger should be shown the door but as we all know it will never happen so the club will be allowed to limp on rudderless. how has it come to this?

  113. GoonerGoal!

    Jan 02, 2013, 19:58 #30277

    Good thing we scrambled that point against Southampton. It’s well within the realms of possibility it could be the only one we will get in January with Man City (h), Chelsea (a), and Liverpool (h) to follow this month, and I am not expecting an FA Cup victory on Saturday. At the seasons end our rightful position in the Premier league with Wenger will await us, 6th-8th at best…. Run a team? He can’t even run a zip! VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

  114. Chris

    Jan 02, 2013, 19:33 #30276

    @Theo - what 'claims' are you referring to? (genuinely not sure here - I've read you article and its not clear what you're referring to). If you are talking about whether Wenger has self-imposed a no net tranfer spend on himself - please read again. I simply said I had seen any evidence of that. In your article, the sum total of evidence appears to be one quote from PHW (the rest being irrelevant conjecture without much absent supporting evidence)- I could find you many others which suggest seomthing quite difficult, including one from Wenger when he says "Do people really think I am so stupid as to sit here with my pockets full of money whilst the team is losing?" I can't work out what the second claim you're referring to is. You may feel you had dealt with the unspecified points "quite effectively" (even if you did say so yourself!) but, assuuming I've idetified it correctly, I beg to differ on one at least.

  115. Man UTD increase their Arsenal

    Jan 02, 2013, 19:04 #30275

    Good point CanadaGooner, if we had kept RVP I'm sure we would have been in with a shout of the title. I would have preferred to be 24mil down and challenge rather than 24mil up and possibly lose out of the CL places. Very disappointing indeed. My question is can anyone at the Club push or persuade AW to buy a better stock of player? Does the buck stop with Arsene?

  116. Theo Jensen

    Jan 02, 2013, 18:33 #30274

    @Chris you should read the article I wrote on here the other day (third one down right now). I dealt with both the claims you made, quite effectively I feel.

  117. Inspector Clueless

    Jan 02, 2013, 18:29 #30273

    i love the way that i have got you all blaming ze board for our crisis. even usmanov thinks i am beautiful and it is all the fault of the board who will not spend any francs. of course what you do not realise is, unlike most clubs, here I am specifically incentivised to MAKE PROFITS. This fergy man and this jose man, they get bonus only they win a trophy. I get a bonus if i make money between the purchase price and the sales price and i would like to say - AT THIS I AM TRES BON, NO ?

  118. Chris

    Jan 02, 2013, 18:28 #30272

    @Robert Exley - Personally I doubt that as Wenger's coaching methods may have limitations but they are clearly (almost) unqiuely skilled at producing a certain brand of flowing attacking football (at times)- but in any case, but would a 'more tactically astute manager' have put it together in the first place? If that manager had all of Wenger's qualities and was more tactical astute then yes, it's a no-brainer - but if 'ifs' and 'buts' were pots and pans there's be no work for tinkers....

  119. Paul

    Jan 02, 2013, 18:23 #30271

    Its been said many times before the ST holders and Club level members keep Wenger in his job.They are to blame.They moan all year round but as soon as that renewal form hits the mat they cant wait to get the credit card out to renew.You get the manager you deserve.

  120. Jude Jolicoeur

    Jan 02, 2013, 18:05 #30270

    Ramsey and Gervais Kouassi (when did he earn a Brazilian moniker?), both out-of-form and low in confidence, were the least likely to make an impact in that game, which is what substitutes are asked to do. The hosts had little to fear with their introduction. Good thing we tied Ramsey down for five more years. And while I don’t rate Squillaci, he was summarily caned for his poor clearance across the face of his own goal last season at Craven Cottage in added time. Sagna seems to get a pass for his poor clearance yesterday. For me, Jenkinson should replace him in the cup tie at the weekend and against City. He did quite well in the corresponding fixture earlier this year.

  121. Robert Exley

    Jan 02, 2013, 17:53 #30269

    A run of 4 straight wins and in between that beaten by a L2 side, scraping a win at Wigan, a sublime 20 minutes followed by struggling to hold a lead for the other 70. This team could potentially beat any side in the world on their day. Could also potentially lose to any (and I mean any, even Fisher Athletic if they still exist) side in the world. The fault lies with the manager for that - it has to, he picks the side, the formation and the tactics. Kev mentions the difference between us and United being the manager - it's one factor, but not the only one. They have a bigger fan base than us, a bigger ground that they didn't have to build from scratch, they are also trying to match the petrodollars on the wages front which is a dangerous game in itself. That said, you can be as prudent off the pitch as you want. It counts for nothing if you are profligate on it. I honestly think as weak as this squad is, a more tactically astute manager would get more out of even this bunch.

  122. Ronster

    Jan 02, 2013, 17:21 #30268

    The only praise worthy performances so far were early in the season away to Liverpool and Manchester City.Any positive results since then have come against teams that have been reduced to 10 men,that are fighting relegation,that are poorly organised defensively,that have run out of steam,that are in the lower leagues....

  123. Simon f

    Jan 02, 2013, 17:16 #30266

    Wenger quote (direct from arsenal website) - 'it was a flat performance, we didn't create enough, our game was not speedy enough, you can even consider it a lucky point!!!!' - I have seen this type of quote so many times over the last 2 to 3 years - 2 options exist - either it is time for arsene to kick out the players that keep putting in these displays and letting him and arsenal down. Or If ultimately it is that he can't motivate good players then he himself should leave..... Either way will somebody at arsenal please step forward and sort this complete nonsense out!!!!!

  124. Peter Wain

    Jan 02, 2013, 16:47 #30265

    the troubke is if you buy enough sub standard players you get results like this I think all of the recent buys have not been up to scratch, Cazorla really slows the attack down and only looks for Podborski. If we want fourth we have to spend really big this transafer window and I am not sure the manager has the cajones for this or the board want to spend the money, Still we wait with baitted breath,

  125. Chris

    Jan 02, 2013, 16:14 #30264

    Over all, a fair and balanced apparaisal by Kevin of a non-performnace. IF it really is the case that Wenger is putting his own agenda before maximisation of results (by self-imposing a zero net-spend policy) then he is letting everyone (himself, the club, the fans) down - but I've not seen anything to support that this is the case (except the 'evidence'Myles Palmer printed on his site a couple of years ago that Wenger's wife had told him "My husband wants to win it without spending any money" - hmm...). As for Feguson / Man Utd - the answer is clearly not so simple as Kevin makes out. I would have throught that having a net spend (wages + transfers) in excess of 50% greater than Arsenal's over the last five years (depsite the £80m Ronaldo win fall) goes quite some way to why they are better at competeing with thr petro-dollars.

  126. Chris

    Jan 02, 2013, 16:02 #30263

    @Ramgun - I have read that Real Madrid had lined up Cazorla a year or two ago but the deal fell through. I think that counts as 'some interest'.

  127. 1971 Gooner

    Jan 02, 2013, 15:49 #30262

    Gervinho's main problem is the laws of physics. His head is so large and his legs so skinny that he can only run so far before gravity takes over. If you also consider that when the ball arrives at his feet he looks at is as though it has a fizzing wick lit you have, without a shadow of a doubt, the worst Arsenal player I have seen since....well those of you who remember the 1970s and 1980s insert your name here. When Wenger brought him and Ramsey on I would have turned the TV over had there been anything else good on. I'd lay off Sagna a bit as well. How we offer arguably the best right back in the PL a one-year extension is something I'd like a member of the Arsenal hierarchy to explain to me. Especially when average players like Ramsey together with unproven works in progress such as Jenkinson and The Ox are given presumably extended contracts on better terms. At least Denilson is out of contract in June, and we will of course welcome back our 'new signing' Diaby just in time for the transfer window to shut - the resulting tremor will probably knock him out for the rest of the season.

  128. Bard

    Jan 02, 2013, 15:32 #30261

    Steve 1962er. I remember that season well. You're right Steve the midfield is too slow, too similar and too lightweight. You maybe can get away with it in Spain or Italy but to be successful you need more pace and power in the premiership. Not convinced that Arteta is good enough to play as a DM. Sagna was woeful and seemed disinterested. Wenger keeps complaining but i dont see changes of personnel or attitude. Bringing on Gervinho ranks as one of the most bizarre substitutions of Wenger's time. Have we not got anyone in youth team who could put in a better shift. Somehow the fact that we keep flattering to deceive prolongs the agony. We probably need to finish mid table to really provoke a proper crisis. We might then have only one more season of Wenger before we get the change we desperately need.

  129. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 02, 2013, 15:25 #30260

    Brought back down to earth with a sore arse did we really expect anything else ? I guess there's only so many relegation fighting teams this shower can beat, two points dropped again and an own goal needed,your right Kev seeing ramsey and forehead standing ready to come on the game was up.We stumbled into the new year alright with the same old same old displays,the same old comedy defending with clowns masquerading as defenders,the same old complacency,unable to break teams down,the same old tired philosophy,same old tired substitutions, same old tired post match interviews, so much for new years resolutions (i doubt if they were even made) they didn't last long.This team is simply not good enough and haven't been for a long time, a clear out has been required for a while and still does, with dross being removed and proper top top quality coming in not like for like but will it happen ? Not when like the ED says ogl wants to do it his way and prove a point.

  130. JER

    Jan 02, 2013, 14:42 #30259

    Sagna was poor against Newcastle and atrocious last night. But Wenger won't want to 'kill him' by dropping him. Compare that to Ferguson's treatment of Rafael against Reading when he pulled him off after 30 mins because he was having a nightmare. I'm afraid that is just one of the differences between our leader and Ferguson.

  131. Judge me in May

    Jan 02, 2013, 14:28 #30258

    Look on the bright side folks, at least we get to listen to Wenger's post match 'pearls of wisdom'. About lacking sharpness, mental strength, handbrake blah blah. In end Jan, get ready for the gems about how Diaby is a new signing, and how we can't find top top quality players. And how signing Cavani / Villa / Falcao would kill Foreheadinho's career. The only genuine pearl of wisdom, one which the swines will doubtlessly reject, is this: WENGER OUT

  132. Ramgun

    Jan 02, 2013, 14:16 #30256

    Not unanimous on Cazorla. He is football's Graham Hick - a flat-track bully. Great to watch when we are on top and no use whatever when it is tough and tight. There is always a good reason when spanish players get to 28 and Real Madrid and Barcelona have never shown any interest. Nothing changes until Wenger has gone.

  133. CanadaGooner

    Jan 02, 2013, 14:05 #30255

    Kev - you're very correct; the minute Arsenal speedily decided to sell Van Persie to Man Utd (purely because they offered the most money) signalled the end of Arsenal's ambition as a club challenging for trophies. To sell the highest goal scorer in the league (following his ONLY year of full fitness) to a competing team that already had better players and better results than us was pretty much throwing down the towel and stating we are no longer a main force in the league. Whoever made that decision to sell to Man Utd (and one can surely blame Gazidis for that) is anti-everything arsenal. walcott and ox were revelling in their return to southampton prancing around like superstars instead of concentrating on playing football; the rest of the squad played well for the first 10mins, didnt get a goal (which could have paved the way to an easy victory) and then simply gave up in spectacular fashion. I am back home in London for a few weeks from mid-January and already dreading going to the matches because of our inconsistent display. The manager has become a dribbling flop, the players have no interest in challenging for anything and the urrent management (Gazidis & co) will destroy Arsenal with time (that is obvious; they will tell us that 14th place isnt so bad as their financial model will be vindicated someday when 'salary caps' are introduced to football)

  134. allybear

    Jan 02, 2013, 13:58 #30254

    I have enjoyed the articles here and its blatantly obvious that Wenger needs to leave or be fired which wont happen anyway.Arsenal are still a great club&i have been asupporter since 1970 but its terrible that the club is missmanaged on the field by a manager who has clearly lost it. I will always support the Gunners but must admit that my interest is beginning to wane. I would never criticise RVP for leaving&clearly he is going to win things this season.

  135. Red Member

    Jan 02, 2013, 13:44 #30253

    as long as the season ticket holders continue to renew then of course this is what will continue to happen. season ticket holders are the biggest AKBs there are, yet half of them refuse to believe this. it is ok to criticise the players,manager, board etc but how about looking a bit closer to home? I have and so am currently in exile from the club.Not that I am missing it much, I have realised that my money goes further on other entertainment pursuits though. hope everyone else is enjoying the games!

  136. Ron

    Jan 02, 2013, 12:55 #30252

    Steve1962er - My hero mate, Joe Baker. In my view, we ve had none better. These who champion Henry and Co as better strikers are as entitled to their view as im entitled to disagree with it, but he was a great scorer and as brave as a lion. What did we do? Sold him to the best bidder of course!! Ive said a few times that this team has echoes of the mid 60s. I was wrong. We used to exite in those days albeit get beat as often as we won games, plus we could even get behind workers like Billy McCullough and Jimmy MacGill and later, even Ian Ure as they all grafted and fought. Todays breed of Koschielny and Vermaelen make me sick to be honest. Theres more strength in a pair of soggy doughnuts than in those two bottling skivers. Amazes me why people never see fit to recognise the appalling limitations of Kos in particular. Hes the worst of the limited bunch of centre backs (i use the word center back reservedly!)by far in my view.

  137. Tony Evans

    Jan 02, 2013, 12:53 #30251

    Just so tired of Wenger's Arsenal now that I am rendered virtually emotionless whatever the score. Even the 7-3 excitement against Newcastle was tempered by the fact that we all knew that a punchless, gutless and vapid (good word that Kevin) peformance is more than likely in the next match and that is just what happened. Now for the FA Cup - season over in early Jan? I wouldn't bet against it and yes I know we are still in the CL, but I have written that off already.

  138. Jaded Harold

    Jan 02, 2013, 12:16 #30249

    Superb analysis Kev. One thing that's been mentioned and asked elsewhere, why can managers like Adkins and Martinez spend the whole game on the edge of their technical area encouraging, cajoling, tactically advising and generally shouting at their players, and Wenger can't? Does he not think it ever makes a difference, especially when players look like they couldn't give a f**k? I only saw him get off his seat twice in the second half yesterday and both were in anger at a referee's decision. The lack of pressure that Wenger puts on himself to win trophies simply permeates to the players and results in regular performances like yesterday. Nothing will change until he goes.

  139. 6OONER PETE

    Jan 02, 2013, 12:01 #30248

    I wasted 90 minutes of my life watching this awful performance. Trouble is, I'm sure some of these players (only some!) would be ok with a manager who could not only motivate them but had some tactical nous as well. If only!

  140. Goonger

    Jan 02, 2013, 11:57 #30247

    Forget the Reina thing,i havn't rated him in a long time.Too true Kev,I posted on Facebook last night "Who actually got a lift when they saw that Gervinho and Ramsey where coming on?".What Arsenal need is a holding midfielder,a fit Diaby style player,and a decent centre back who can play with any of the other three!!As i dont believe there is a good combination with what we have.But alas we know it wont happen.But to be honest its Tin Hats for Sunday,Im afraid.

  141. johnnyhawleyloovinggooner

    Jan 02, 2013, 11:53 #30246

    we will buy a 17 year old from southhampton and a 20 year old from c.place and pay a fortune for them so we can train them up to walk away like all the rest!(oh and have no impact this year)we only need one transfer though and that is the manager to the boardroom.let someone else work with the sguad to the summer to see how good/bad they really are. it looks to me some of the players simply dont have faith in the manager anymore.

  142. Steve 1962er

    Jan 02, 2013, 11:49 #30245

    I have got my Arsenal back! I started supporting them in 1962, and in 1963/4 season we scored 90 goals in 42 games.Where did we finish? 8th position. We could rip teams apart one week, and then get thrashed ourselves the following week. We had a great number 9 in Joe Baker, and both he and Geoff Strong scored over 30 goals each if memory serves me well. I have read many blogs that were drooling over the midfield triumvirate that we now have. I for one disagree totally as we have three very similar players, and the build up play is far, far too slow. When Rosicky plays, our passing and movement is far quicker and we are able to play through teams at a much higher speed and therefore obtain more goal scoring opportunities. When the current three play, although individually all gifted, technical players, our build up play is too slow, too square, and we fail to get through teams who are set up just reasonably well defensively. I think we need to revert to 4-4-2 with a new, holding mid field player and Giroud and Walcott (if he stays) up front. Walcott, in my opinion, will never make it as a number 9, but he will be a very good second striker. This would mean leaving Podolski out, but I have not been impressed with him apart from a couple of games.We would also have to decide between Jack, Santi and Mikel, but I can see a poor second half of the season if Wenger keeps all three in at the same time. I believe that the two points dropped at Southampton probably sealed our fate for fourth place, as I do not believe that Tottenham will foul up this season as they have a proper manager in place now, despite what happened at Chelski, I think AVB will prove himself to be a very good manager. I hope I am entirely wrong with what I have written above, but having been thrilled by Arsenal between 1997-2008, I am now left, in the main, watching an average team, with a slow build up, very poor defence, and quite frankly, several players who do not appear to care less whether they win or lose. Mental strength is non-existent, will to win totally lacking, and Wenger's belief in several players is beyond my comprehension. Sagna has not been a patch on his previous performances since his return from injury, but Wenger persists on playing him, despite Jenkinson proving his worth, determination and will to win when he took Sagna's place. I am baffled by his choices now, and unless he bites the bullet and buys three top class players, for each section of the team (which of course he won't)I believe we will not be seeing Champions League football for some considerable time. Happy New Year to all!

  143. Dan h

    Jan 02, 2013, 11:47 #30244

    A lot of my thoughts covered by the ed & other comments OGL cannot blame the usual suspects fatigue we played one less game than Soton.He can't blame injuries we only have one player out that can challenge for a starting berth FKD (french Keiron Dyer)Diaby.A squad so poor highlighted last night that Mertersacker & possibly Giroud are the only players you could make a case for starting.Most of us must have had the same thoughts when Ramsey & Gervinho trotted on well that's any chance of winning gone.January should be used to open up some squad space pay off the likes of Squillaci who are out of contract in june.AA23 must have been sat somewhere with a beer laughing at a player like Gervinho picked ahead of him that Grimandi & ultimately OGL deemed him good enough to play for Arsenal shocking buy.Another dead contract on the books Simon Hill's excellent article in the current Gooner sums up what a lot of us have been saying all roads lead to one mans poor judgement in the market.The likes of Mata would be playing for us if he had listened to his scouts when we registered an interest in him his release clause was £17m we waited & another player who would of pushed us on was lost.Im sure lots of you have heard the joke doing the rounds that Arsenal have been strengthened by Gervinho going to the ACON!I would rather we buy no one than take a gamble on more unproven players.Swansea sunday can we beat their squad team as they are making comments about resting players for their league cup semi-final that my friends speaks volumes about how far we are dropping back.New year but same old isn't it 2013 could be unlucky for some the year the virtual trophy deserts us!

  144. SilverGooner

    Jan 02, 2013, 11:41 #30243

    More shocking than the teams performance (simply because you know they are likely at any time) was the double substitution that brought on Ramsey and Gervinho. Can anyone imagine Fergie (or any other manager!) pulling a stunt like that if you seriously wanted to win a game? Sorry, but the buck stops with Wenger - a man who has run out of ideas and whose once immortal reputation is slowly transforming into one of ineptitude and incompetence. As for the club spending in this transfer window, I for one wouldn't trust Wenger and the haplesss Dick Law to spend it wisely.

  145. Robert

    Jan 02, 2013, 11:39 #30242

    Woeful performance but was anyone really surprised.We have seen the same sterile performances at Norwich Man Utd Villa and Bradford and at home to Schalke and Swansea.The team that Wenger coaches were just not up for it.Gone are the days when Wenger could come up with the excuse we we kicked of the pitch.Southampton barely commited a foul.Sagna had a shocker but hasnt been good since he was told he would be given a one year deal when the likes of Ramsey Gibbs and Jenkinson get 5 year deals.Cazorla has had one good game in the last 10 at Reading.Either he is knackered or not up to the rigours of the prem.Other than the own goal we had no shots on target.We have signed so much dross in the last two years does anyone trust Wenger in the transfer market.The likes of Squillaci and Chamakh will never start another prem game.Park was a £5m write off.Santos has been unfit from day one.Gervinho is up there with the worst ever Arsenal players.How did Wenger pay £11m for him beggars belief.Giroud is a lump no different from Holt and Lambert.Anyone who thought the pain would end going into 2013 think again.Nothing will change under Wenger.And only 5th place will get rid of him

  146. Angry & Frustrated

    Jan 02, 2013, 11:35 #30241

    RVP's latest comment about being surrounded by out and out winners at Man U says it all. By inference what he is saying, is that he was surrounded by surrender monkeys, bottlers and losers at Arsenal. We can't really argue with that assessment can we?

  147. WMG

    Jan 02, 2013, 11:34 #30240

    Poor result. Walcott did have another shot on target apart from the free kick (if it's counted) but Boruc saved it easily. "Southampton were honest" I hope you're not including Jack Cork in that statement Kev after his blatant handball that should have resulted in a penalty but Arsenal didn't deserve to win.

  148. Change Your Thinking

    Jan 02, 2013, 11:20 #30239

    we all need to be really pleased that we support a company which is self-sustaining, solvent, profitable year in year out. We are the envy of many other companies. If you think like this (as the club want you to think) then you will be happier. This is not a sporting club any longer. it does not want to hurt itself by trying to win things. spending more on players means spending less on the management, board and less dividends to the owners. This year we shall finish about 6th in league, no trophies and get a real thumping (again) in the Champions League, this time from Munich, BUT we will financially remain in very good shape.

  149. Sarge

    Jan 02, 2013, 11:05 #30237

    This team and overall squad is not good enough to challenge for titles and cups. It's not built for that purpose. It can't even string more than 4 wins together against mediocre opposition. The team and squad composition in terms of ability, attitude, desire and game intelligence makes us more susceptible to results like Bradford, Swansea at home and yesterday than beating the Mancs at OT or winning semi-finals or even finals against inferior opposition. The team performances are an accurate reflection of the philosphy and ambition of this club. Not quite peanuts and monkeys but still not built to seriously compete and take on the very best with confidence either. For me the fundamental issue is the coaching and overall team management. We have made no discernible progress as a team over the course of the season. By now we should be seeing improvements in our overall game and we're not. Still leaking goals a League 2 team would be embarrassed to concede, lack of power and fluidity in midfield,struggle to break down well organised teams,profligate in front of goal and over reliance on the same key players because we lack quality back-up to rotate the squad (a problem that will come to the fore in the latter stages of the season i.e. the business end). The pattern of results is much the same over the last 4 seasons. The final points tally is roughly the same and we always seem to remain 6 to 8 wins away from the top in the final standings. Wenger has resorted to boasting about finishing third last year (by a single point) but conveniently forgot we were 19 points off the top 2. The truth is, we just don't move in the same circles anymore. If he is truly the man for the job then he should be getting much more out of this current set of players by now - and he's not.

  150. Gare Kekeke

    Jan 02, 2013, 11:03 #30236

    Fair result but dire performance on our part. Useless at the back as usual, midfield nonexistent and the front three, impotent. Apart from Wilshire & Szczesny, I can’t think of any other player who held their head up high especially Sagna who had a poor game. One shot on target against a struggling club on their own turf is far too common these days. This performance was comparable with Norwich bar the result. Watching Wenger cut a frustrating figure on the touchline was interesting. But I suppose with the penny still hasn’t dropped that contrary to what he thinks, this is not his best ever squad. Btw, it’s often said on this site that those who go away are the true fans that always back the manager and the board. Really? As a fan who does around 10-15 away games per season I lost trust in Wenger a few years ago and have no time for this current board. Also I could have sworn I heard plenty of booing towards the end last night. And those who did boo probably have had enough of Wenger & the board. I overheard one Gooner on the train home suggesting that an Usmanov takeover has to happen and a finish outside the top four would not be such a bad think. But we shall on both counts over the next eighteen months. I still think we’ll finish top four but only on the basis of our experience and those from Everton & Tottenham perhaps not being good enough for now. But Tottenham could draw on last year’s collapse as inspiration to achieve better. And to think, one Gooner stated recently that we will be back in the title race. Back in it? We weren’t even in it this season in the first place. Spot on about Ferguson Kevin. Your thoughts on Ferguson are the same as mine. I’m baffled that some Gooners think he is inferior to Wenger. I would suggest that those who think this should compare Ferguson’s record at Aberdeen & Wenger’s at Monaco as well as their current clubs to determine who the better manager is. Roll on Swansea on Sunday for a very interesting FA Cup tie. Up The Arsenal!

  151. jjetplane

    Jan 02, 2013, 10:59 #30235

    Ha ha So where have all the wengaboyz waltzed off to again. Get it in your heads, if whinger gets through this season and gets 5th place (realism) - where do you go from there? It really will be the Old arsenal minus the lager! Funny enough - he does resemble a boiled chicken. Oh for a Perry Groves running at the opposition .......

  152. BEDFORDSHIRE GOONER

    Jan 02, 2013, 10:46 #30234

    IM IN AGREEMENT WITH DON FROTH I ALWAYS TOUGHT GUS CEASER WAS THE WORST PLAYER I HAD SEEN AT THE ARSENAL BUT GERVINHO BEATS HIM BY FAR.

  153. Ron

    Jan 02, 2013, 10:27 #30230

    John A - Have you watched Reina lately? Theres a reason he was dropped - hes rubbish. No better than the average keeper occupying our goal!

  154. Angry & Frustrated

    Jan 02, 2013, 10:19 #30229

    A few good results against poor teams and complacency sets in, it's all so groundhog day familiar. What irks me most, is when Wenger himself says his team was complacent, as if he as the manager does not have anything to do with this regular phenomenon. Surely to God that is the managers (who earns a circa £7 million salary) responsibility that it never happens in the first place. Strange how it so rarely occurs at Old Trafford, yet happens as often as night turns into day at Arsenal. I wonder why that could be? As for the substitutions, I simply give up!

  155. Adelaide Gooner

    Jan 02, 2013, 9:56 #30228

    We are so ordinary, it makes me laugh.

  156. Bard

    Jan 02, 2013, 9:54 #30227

    Good post Kev. We had 1 shot on target and for long periods Southampton bossed the game, it was a woeful performance. The goal we gave away was a comedy of errors. Southampton showed us all the qualities this side lacks, desire, grit, determination. Wenger's assessment of complacency may be true but who is responsible for sending them out in a complacent manner ? I agree wholeheartedly we need reinforcements throughout the team but for the money we are willing to pay we will only be looking at second tier or unproven players at best.

  157. jj

    Jan 02, 2013, 9:48 #30226

    If Jenkinson had played as poorly or looked as disinterested as Sagna he would be ripped a new one on here. The Frenchman clearly wants out.Peformances like that are unacceptable if you want to be a big club. Ferguson would have subbed him to send out a signal to the rest of the squad.Wenger will probably massage his b****cks.

  158. AUSSIE BLOCK 15

    Jan 02, 2013, 9:40 #30225

    HEH HEH, LAST COMMENT REMINDS ME WHEN I WROTE TO THE THEN ARSENAL MANAGER TERRY NEILL ABOUT A YOUNG LAD AT LEICESTER CALLED LINEKER,(WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM)GOT THE COURTEOUS REPLY AND SETTLED FOR HANKIN,HAWLEY AND CHAPMAN,ALWAYS TRIED ON THE PITCH BUT NEVER WERE GONNA WIN US TROPHYS,ARSENAL BITE THE BULLETT AND BUY SOMEONE BIG AND PROVEN.

  159. John A

    Jan 02, 2013, 9:38 #30224

    How poor was Sagna last night he might as well have sat by a post with a fag on rather than be 12th man for the opposition. Gervinho makes me die - if you watch the way he plays he will avoid physical contact at all cost. He actually runs in a different direction than the ball when he sees an opposing player challenging. The time he bottled taking a penalty in the African Nations Cup sums him up. Very clever politics by Arsene making Theo the main issue in this window. Without 2 defensive signings (Hagaland and Baines) plus an experienced goal keeper(Reina)5th place is our only realistic aim.

  160. GoonerRon

    Jan 02, 2013, 9:14 #30222

    Really poor and frustrating performance after a good run of wins. Fair play to the manager for coming out and saying we were lacklustre, complacent etc, we really need to put it right in the massive game against Swansea coming up. One last thing - can you imagine the uproar on here if Wenger bought a 26 year old, 5 foot 6 midfielder from Hull in the transfer window (that's Stephen Quinn according to Wiki) - Wenger and Gazidis would be bashed forever and a day for shopping in the bargain basement.

  161. Nutty's Right Peg

    Jan 02, 2013, 9:12 #30221

    Once more a decent review of the shambles we had to endure last night Kevin, but like many others, I'm past the stage of getting angry as I work on the theory, if you don't expect too much, then you won't be let down. A sad indictment of a club that managed an entire season unbeaten not too long ago, don't you think. Bringing on Gervinho summed up the current state of things for me, if you need the three points & aren't playing well, he's the obvious choice isn't he ?? It's typical of this shambles of a club that we have a good run of winnable games ahead of us & we flunk it. Much as I enjoyed the 7 goals on Saturday, been watching Arsenal far too long to get carried away by one really decent result, two of Newcastle's goals were down to defensive errors on a level I've seen in my local park on a Sunday morning. Walcott is way too inconsistent still, funny how he manages a sublime piece of Henryesque finishing when his contract's in the balance. Is there something we should be told about Podolski & his fitness ? I was excited about his arrival as he's always looked a quality striker, but we've signed a bloke who can't or isn't allowed to complete a full 90 minutes, & in true Wenger style, is played out of position. Wenger loves doing this doesn't he, is he just taking the piss or maybe Ivan picks where some of them play, Arshavin would be a revelation if he had a proper run in the side playing behind two, yes, that's two, strikers Mr Wenger. No-one seems capable of motivating the side, Jack tries to lead by example but there's only so much you can do on your own, I'm old enough to remember how a very young skinny Irish lad stood head & shoulders above a poor Arsenal team in the mid 70's (those whose education began at the soulless bowl or when Sky took over, look up the name Brady !!). I can't be the only one who thinks Wenger is looking like an old man with a tortured soul this season, even my misses remarked on how old he's looking these days. I used to stand on the North Bank & enjoy it, sure we didn't win every week, sure we didn't really even have realistic hopes of winning the title, maybe Wembley in May, but it's not about the winning, I can take the defeats, I can accept Swansea City outplaying us, it happens, but what I can't take is this seemingly lack of desire, urgency, motivation, call it what you will. January's transfer window looks no more than a little bit of teasing, all these names banded about, Villa, Ba, Nani.....please don't make me laugh, if we could buy these players, we could've splashed out on quality in the summer, who knows, Van Persie might have been tempted to stay, what a mug he's been eh ! How any Gooners can slate him for jumping ship is beyond me, he pretty much said everything many of us have known for a while, this is a club happy to plod along. Get ready for Thursday nights on ESPN or Channel 5 next season fellow Gooners, who really believes we'll get out of jail again like last season at The Hawthorns ? We made the Champions Lge because of two things, Van Persie won games on his own, & West Brom picked a bloke out of the crowd to keep goal in the final game of the season. Would truly love to have something positive to say, but can't for the life of me find it. Happy New Year, my fellow Goons.

  162. chris dee

    Jan 02, 2013, 9:09 #30220

    A scary,scary performance. An old cliche states that a team reflects the personality of the manager, so god help us. And no matter what the manager says this 'team' does not have an ounce of team spirit,determination,physical or mental courage character or pride in their performance. It was a performance that screamed 'we don't give a s**t' about this club. Something in the dressing room is not quite right and it's down to the manager to sort it out.If he can't then it's time to go. Does the manager check out the personality and character of a player before signing him?I ask the question because the club were screwed with the signing of Arshavin but we seem to have repeated the error with Podolski. All the players were truely awful last night but the 'performances' of Sagna and Gervinho were just appalling. The manager also stated that we might have underestimated Southampton and that we lacked desire. Oh yeah Arsene so who's frigging fault is that?

  163. billthered

    Jan 02, 2013, 9:08 #30219

    The only player we have with any gumption is Jack but he had an indifferent game last night.Where the hell is a leader who when things are not going well rolls his sleaves up and b*ll*cks the rest of them TA style.And have you noticed all the players wear long sleaved shirts now and I know it's the captains call but we used to go to away grounds with short sleaves and at least try to look hard,times change dont they.

  164. Clement

    Jan 02, 2013, 8:51 #30218

    The only way arsenal can rob shoulders with the best clubs is to change their manager who does not believe buying good players will guarantee trophy winning.That man is out of ideas.

  165. don froth

    Jan 02, 2013, 8:43 #30217

    Truly woeful. I have not seen many poorer players at Arsenal in the last 25 years than Gervinho. We were dire from start to finish.

  166. fozzy's mate

    Jan 02, 2013, 8:10 #30216

    A shame as we were on a decent run but this sort of performance happens fairly regularly. At least OGL admitted his team were complacent. He is desperate to play Kos instead of BFG but that selection results in comedy defending as seen in the last 2 games (bfg was ill v Newcastle). But things look better than following swansea at home. This weekends cup game may define our season going into City and then chelsea pre the munich tie. If we lose another trophy less (not fpt) season beckons. I don't see us buying anyone significant in the window. I see smoke and mirrors season is on with Diaby back in training. On 1 February he will be ruled out for the season like so many others before him. Like many of us boarding the train this morning the inevitable mouse wheel rolls on again. Phil Taylor world champion and Arsenal in fight for the FPT while DDTT, MSS and PHW enjoy the spoils.

  167. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Jan 02, 2013, 7:59 #30215

    On the BSM march recently, a number of placards were held bearing the question ‘Ivan Gazidis, what the f**k do you do?’ If I can answer for Mr Gazidis, may I say he probably does very much the same as the vast majority of the squad – only doesn’t get paid as much. If any of you think Wenger is still the man for the job, just reflect upon the sight of Gervinho coming on as sub – presumably in order to influence the game and deliver maximum points. Now considering that Gervinho would probably run down a cul-de-sac in a botched attempt to deliver a pizza, this is a further demonstration of how MEDIOCRE Arsenal have become. Wenger continues to cut a pathetic character while on the touchline. Shaking his head, complaining to all and sundry, looking to the heavens and all with an expression that he was sucking on a lemon well past its use by date. Arsene – I’ve got some news for you, mate – that was YOUR team. The team YOU bought, YOU selected, YOU think are fit to wear the shirts, YOU award hideous contracts to and the team that follow YOUR tactics (er, actually, ignore that last point). Please do not talk any more of mental strengths or about dubious refereeing decisions that are the sole reasons for draws or defeats. For the love of God, just do the honourable thing.