A cup, a cup, my kingdom for a cup!

In hope of a full strength team at Brighton tomorrow

25 January, 2013 9:00

Mike Hennessy 49 comments

Could do with another one

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The worst part of last Sunday's defeat to Chelsea was Wenger’s post-match comments. I appreciate that could apply to any one game of the last few years, but there was one comment that struck fear in me, for the week ahead.

“We cannot afford to drop any more points if we want to be in the top four.”

'Ello. Apart from the fact that he should have been focused on the fourth-place trophy long before Sunday, what made me shiver was the inevitable consequence that this will bring for our team selection for this week’s two matches.

Let me say firstly that I am clearly one of the dwindling band of supporters that treasure the days when we used to win trophies. I see no realistic way that we’ll get past the Germans in March, so the only conceivable solution is to throw our eggs into the FA Cup basket. I would rather a trophy than the fourth-place trophy. Not only for a glory day out in May, but to get that monkey off our back. I think the psychological impact of another trophyless season will be hard felt in the summer – especially if we don’t get Champions League football next season, as well.

Apparently, we secreted away money to compensate for a failure to qualify for a season’s Champions League – ok, dip into that next season to pay for Walcott’s millions etc. Let it be – we’ve had our time in that competition, and if Wenger’s last season is next season, then he can focus on getting us back into the Champions League. Call it our leaving present.

But I’m scared that we won’t throw our eggs into that basket. When I read those comments, I can almost hear that mind work overtime – we have a league game Wednesday, next Wednesday and Saturday after that. He’ll play all the top men (ok, first-team players, then) on Wednesday, and we’ll end up with Frimpong, Arshavin, Ramsey, Jenkinson, Squillaci, Mannone and Santos turning up at the AMEX.

Now, I appreciate that some of those might be an improvement on those hogging the first team, but they are not first-teamers. We need to go to Brighton, and do the job there. But, if we don’t, and we get the same treatment as Newcastle, we won’t wonder why we don’t win any trophies anymore.

So please, Arsène, think about the FA Cup. I really fancy some heavyweight draws in the fifth round – we might get lucky and draw a minnow at home. Send the kids out then – not on Saturday. It’s our last chance.

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49
comments

Chris
Jan 27, 2013, 18:55 #31251

Theo - I'd certainly agree with that but what we seem to differ on is whether someone who wants the team to lose because the current manager / team isn't meeting their expectation is a glory hunter. I'd argue they are, amongst other things...
Theo Jensen
Jan 27, 2013, 18:21 #31249

I don't think glory hunters have unconditional love for any club.
Chris
Jan 27, 2013, 17:51 #31247

The problem is, Theo, that with that attidue support becomes dependent on success, or on the promise thereof. And we all know a few words for people like that, don't we?
Theo Jensen
Jan 27, 2013, 17:24 #31245

For all true fans love of the club is indeed unconditional, but as many who want to see the team lose would argue, it would, in their view, in the long term be better for the club. So, hypothetically, if they had a choice between no trophies this season and two next season with a new manager, for example, they would take that, as opposed to what they predict would on current status be two seasons without any trophies. So that's it really, it is purely an instrumental and often reluctant position to reach, there's no fundamental shift or disregard for the club. I don't really have anything else to add to that so I'll leave it there.
Chris
Jan 27, 2013, 15:39 #31242

Well, Theo, I think it is that simple. No fan who wants, or even 'wants' (although I'm enitely not sure what that means - I'm talking about those ex-fans who have stated that they would actively like the team to lose), his club to lose has maintained a supportive relationship with his club - no matter how, as I said before, they care to rationalise it. I can understand them being critical of the club or management or team sometimes, but if support is dependent on that then in my opinion, the relationship is broken.
Theo Jensen
Jan 27, 2013, 13:06 #31237

Well Chris I don't think it's quite that simple. The reason I put 'want' in inverted commas is that it still hurts those people when the team loses. Ultimately the fact that they got to that decision shows the lengths they would go to as fans to see the club they love improve. It's not like it's noble to partake in fandom as a mere serf.
Gare Kekeke
Jan 27, 2013, 11:16 #31230

Whilst I can’t say I want the team to lose...........................I can’t’ say that I support the Kronke/Gazidis/Wenger triumvirate either. Kronke doesn’t care about The Arsenal yet there are so many fans that support him and think he’s great for the club. Wake up and smell whatever hot drink y’all sip into every morning. This is a man who in Denver, sits there, says nothing and doesn't do anything. He will only attend games when the club holds important meetings during that week and even when he does attend games, he f*cks off at half-time. I’m no fan of Abramovich by any stretch of the imagination but at least he cares about Chelsea and has shown his intent of his ambitions for that club. Sheikh Mansour may have only attended one Manchester City since his family’s takeover of that club in 2008 (they couldn’t even attend the famous QPR game. Pathetic) but again at least they care and have constantly backed Mancini. Kronke is probably looking to make his profit on his shares and then p*ss off when the first really good offer arrives. And it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s to Usmanov or someone similar either.
Markymark
Jan 27, 2013, 10:18 #31226

Nilz21 - agree with you there, have been at Arsenal since 1969, but any supporter who dares to make comment against the way the club is run is deemed to be a glory hunting Johnny come lately, Gunner greg and Reggie 21 please take note ! On a different note, The spuds have been catching us for several years, with a smaller squad, with a smaller wage bill, we were told we moved to enable us to compete with Manchester United, in reality we are slipping further and further behind them and other clubs have overtaken us !Its a real kick in the teeth when players now pick going to Spurd rathe than coming to0 us, ie Holtby and Vertogen, oh i forgot Wenger will only buy players better than we allready have ( sic )
Chris
Jan 27, 2013, 9:27 #31225

Theo - I can understand that more from the Chealsea players in a way - they are professionals and behave in a professional way (or not, as in the scenario you describe). We fans don't have a contract with the club, it's a labour of love - usually a completely irrational labour of love. We can't say "We'll support you ever more - as long as we like the manager, feel the strategy of the club fits the ends we have in mind for our relationship with the club as fans and feel the players on the pitch fit the self image we have for ourselves as Arsenal fans" - it would mean nothing. If I teel my wife that I was only trying to maximise my life time reporductive success when I had sex with her friend it's not going to wash, is it, depsite the fact that in rational terms my argument would have some merit. In my opinion, those fans who would like to see the team lose because it fits with their own agenda (for a change of manager / regime) are infidels whose relationship with the club is broken.
Stroud Green Road Boy
Jan 27, 2013, 1:11 #31224

Arsenal have been declining for a few years now. Whatever the reasons you think that's been happening are, that's self-evident. So to support the status quo at AFC is to support that pattern of continued decline. Such people should be ashamed of themselves. They are not supporters of Arsenal at all but supporters of Arsene and his career, and should just come out and admit it.
Theo Jensen
Jan 26, 2013, 20:27 #31223

Well Chris, I would like to see a change of manager but I'm somewhat divided... Mainly because it looks like the Spuds will keep stalling their new stadium's construction till they've got CL football. The point is though fans who feel that way aren't speaking intrinsically, they want the team to lose as a means to an end. It's a bit like the Chelsea players seemingly throwing some games last season, got rid of AVB and worked out quite well for them, not condoning that- just citing the same principle.
Chris
Jan 26, 2013, 19:37 #31222

Theo - are you one of those 'fans'?
Nilz21
Jan 26, 2013, 18:51 #31220

@Reggie the Gunner Typical blind faith fans cant stand a proper debate ..so you have to resort to name calling and throwing you toys out the pram. You don't know me I should'nt even have to mention the fact that i've been a season ticket holder since 1986. Fans like you are the ones who need to get lost and leave the worrying and anger of how our club is being led and managed to the real fans...you cant argue or close your eyes n put your fingers in your ears to the plain facts. Doubt your in the pubs around match day otherwise you'll know how real fans feel. Stick to keyboard typing in your pants and leave the change that will eventually happen though protests to the real fans like the BFM and supporters trust. Arsenal was a great club before wenger / grazidis and kroenke..and it will be after they have gone.
Reggie the Gunner
Jan 26, 2013, 14:55 #31219

So called Gooners like nilz21 and the rest of the anti everything Wenger and Arsenal do is wrong epitomise the cringing windbags we have accumulated as fans in recent years.You hear them crying daily to their leader Adrian Durham on Talk Sport,most of them can't even speak English.They make me sick,go and support some other team and leave Arsenal to the real fans.
Theo Jensen
Jan 26, 2013, 14:50 #31218

I can completely understand why some fans 'want' the team to lose matches to trigger a significanct change. It makes you no less a gooner; this team HAS declined significantly and you are entitled to wish for a change. It's a bit like having an arrow in you; it will hurt if you take it out but that's what you need to start the proper treatment and in the same way those who look at things long term, not in the short term on a result-by-result basis, see that it may well have to get (even...) worse for the big steps to recovery being made.
nilz21
Jan 26, 2013, 12:19 #31217

I would never wish for our club to lose..no way. But something has to give..our club is dying slowly under the current regime. I think most the most hardened Wenger/Grazidis/Kroenke loyalists are beginning to realise that now
MarkH
Jan 26, 2013, 12:10 #31216

How can anyone who call themselves a Gooner, seriously what us to lose. Disgusting, anyone who wishes that deserve's a good slap!
Chris
Jan 26, 2013, 10:44 #31215

Gooner Ron - neither could I. I don't believe 'fans' who do that sholud consider themselves proper Arsenal supporters anymore, no matter how they rationalise their betrayal. For me, they will from now forver remain on the outside - and in their hearts, I think they know it.
GoonerRon
Jan 26, 2013, 10:00 #31214

Agree with the sentiments that we need the monkey off our back and realistically the FA Cup is our best chance to do that. Despite our relative lack of success in recent seasons, I still could never bring myself to WANT Arsenal to lose, like some on here are wishing for. No way.
Markymark
Jan 26, 2013, 9:56 #31213

Ref PPP I am sure we all support the club, but arte we not allowed to take the blinkers off, Wenger is killing our club !
Danny
Jan 25, 2013, 23:26 #31210

looking for for arsenal to lose to brighton another nail in Wenger's coffin
Gunner Greg
Jan 25, 2013, 22:54 #31209

Same old nonesense from the fickle so called Arsenal supporting windbags we have aquired at this great club recently.Could you imagine if Arsenal went all out for the FA cup and finshed 5th and were knocked out of the champs league by Bayern for fielding a weakened side.The Wenger out dreamers would have a field day in their hope to ruin Arsenal.
Old Timer
Jan 25, 2013, 22:26 #31208

I've finally realised how to tell when Arsene is bull****ting about buying players in the January transfer window. It's whenever you see his lips move.
Eddiek
Jan 25, 2013, 22:15 #31207

One of the best things that could happen to us this season is for Brighton to pull a Bradford on us tomorrow before ze Germans end our season in Munich in March. These will bring us steps closer to meaningful change at the club! Other than this, we'll keep papering over the cracks!
Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge
Jan 25, 2013, 21:16 #31206

I love the fact that anyone thinks that we are capable of winning anything. I would love to have the hope of winning something, but sadly we aren't good enough to win the Emirates Cup anymore, which is why there wasn't one this season.
marky mark
Jan 25, 2013, 19:53 #31205

Just heard the Wenger interview that sends out the message not to expect any signings, there is no one out there who can improve our squad, IS THE MAN MAD !Remember this is the man who on match of the day stated yhat when Fulham bought Berbatov he was not aware he was for sale. Was Van Persie hawked around before we sold him, i doubt it. This means Moanchester pusued him and were allowed to buy him, why can we not do this ? I assume for those of us who refuse to go to games whilst this man is in charge noticed once again the vast number of empty seats at the Emirates. Something must be done, we are sinking and i do not like what i am seeing.
Jumpers for Goalposts
Jan 25, 2013, 19:19 #31204

PPP - You end your comment with " " "Support the team no matter who's in it you scared little fairy." " " Why do you, and so many other Wenger supporters, feel the need to be so abusive to Gooners that don't share your love of Wenger? Being abusive rather than putting your own arguments forward smacks of desperation mate - or is it because deep down you know that you can't defend Wenger any more?
Bard
Jan 25, 2013, 19:09 #31203

I get where you are coming from Mike but in truth its an irrelevance. Wenger is winging it at the moment. He's not a stupid man he must know Arsenal are in the s**t. We have about as much chance of winning anything this season as my daughter has of playing centre forward for Arsenal. Painful though it is we need a bad season to instigate real change. At the moment he has enough wriggle room to keep the 'believers' onside. A collapse will blow that strategy out of the water.
Dan h
Jan 25, 2013, 18:16 #31201

We really can't get too far ahead of ourselves we should have a strong enough squad to make several changes any game sadly we don't.Which Arsenal will turn up tomorrow who knows?We had 120 mins to see off Bradford with our first team we couldn't & didn't deserve to & they rightly have a final to look forward to league 2 club that took it's opportunity.OGL has no squad of quality to pick from the team virtually picks itself they know it & so do we.Brighton play some decent stuff should be a good game tomorrow.It's a chance to get to the last 16 that's all don't look beyond the next game with this team no point.
ppp
Jan 25, 2013, 18:04 #31200

Mike Hennessy here's what you wrote "I see no realistic way that we’ll get past the Germans in March" How pathetic! What kind of fan are you? So when we play Munich and Wenger fields the reserves in both matches you'll write another article about what a great decision it was will you? You'll congratulate Arsene for doing the absolute right thing yes? Or maybe you'll bash out another limp wristed, mealy mouthed hate piece about what an old fool Wenger is and how he's sold you and your mates down the river or something blah blah. Support the team no matter who's in it you scared little fairy.
Peter Wain
Jan 25, 2013, 17:58 #31199

judging by our esteemed leader's press confernece not much chance of new players in this window. Interesting to see if we buy invest in the summer or merely spend what we receive in.
Nick
Jan 25, 2013, 17:37 #31198

Not a comment on the subject really , but i wondered if this little verse to the tune of "viva Espania" would be better and more catchy than the current dirge we sing for Santi , its this "Oh He came to us from sunny spain a viva carzorla, he came to play here in the rain a viva carzorla , hes our own little spanish matador a viva carzorla when he wants to he will surely score a viva carzorla, carzorla por for vor carzorla por for vor!!", and instead of the droning song for Giroud how about " chim chiminy chim chiminy chim chim Giroud he plays for The Arsenal hell score against you , chim chiminy chim chiminy chim chim Giroud he plays for the Arsenal thats Ollie Giroud !", just happen to think our songs were a little more inventive in the Highbury days, on a more serious note , great win Wednesday night unfortunately, OGL seems to be using it as an excuse for not bringing in much needed quality reinforcements, i just hope this, in my opinion ludicrous decision doesnt come back and bite us on the arse , anyway its the FA Cup on Saturday so COME ON YOU GUNNERS !!
John Hawley's Boots
Jan 25, 2013, 17:12 #31197

The Duke of Kent's a Gooner.....actually, does anyone know when we had a fully bearded player? No goatees or design-or stubble, I'm talking proper Peter Withe or, at a push, Socrates......was it SuperMac?
Theopants Superstar
Jan 25, 2013, 17:02 #31196

JJB: "Let me say firstly that I am clearly one of the dwindling band of supporters that treasure the days when we used to win trophies" - Erm.....sorry mate but you really arn't? We all want a trophy! Typical arrogance of the contributors on here....." Can you see the irony in you (rightly) pulling the author up for presuming the above, only to then go and make the exact same mistake by using assumptions and generalisations?
JJB
Jan 25, 2013, 16:14 #31195

"Let me say firstly that I am clearly one of the dwindling band of supporters that treasure the days when we used to win trophies" - Erm.....sorry mate but you really arn't? We all want a trophy! Typical arrogance of the contributors on here.....you are not more "enlightened" than the rest of us fella...we all want the same thing! TROPHIES!! (and the mangager gone)
CanadaGooner
Jan 25, 2013, 15:48 #31194

It's really difficult to visualize how we could win the FA Cup seeing that right now we are so inconsistent. Losing to any of the top 4 teams seems to be a foregone conclusion and then there's the Bradfords of this world as well. Then the mid-table teams like Swansea now see arsenal as fair game too. So, which teams can we beat these days? Every game is a nail biting episode! What a mess!!
maguiresbridge gooner
Jan 25, 2013, 15:38 #31193

Mike, your right about his tired old comments we know them off by heart even before he comes out with them.I think he may have finally woke up to the fact that unlike seasons ago the fourth place trophy is no longer a forgone conclusion but yet he still doesn't seem to want to do to much about it by strengthening, preferring to stick with some of the second raters we have and just scrape through.There's still a lot of us that treasure those days in the caption when we were successful,not only did we win silverware but just as important we knew we were capable of doing it.After eight years the fans are crying out for success and ogl now realises it and knows he can't get away with failure for much longer,hence the throwing of all his eggs in the CO cup basket against Bradford only for it to backfire with a bottle job.Will he do the same in the FA cup ? and risk the same thing happening ? even though koscielny is spouting the same old crap about learning from our mistakes,it makes a change from walcott although i'm sure he's been at it somewhere to.Any cup would do but does this team have it in them, as we've seen against Bradford no. At the end of the day there's only one cup ogl really craves and that's his holy grail although i think we know what chances we have of winning that.
Alan Aylesbury Gooner
Jan 25, 2013, 15:35 #31192

Have to agree with jj and nilz 21 its embarrassing to watch him being interviewed cos you know its going to be complete rubbish he comes out with,you end up asking yourself what the f--k did he just say Don't know why I bother
Cloggs
Jan 25, 2013, 14:35 #31191

Dear Mike, Please take into consideration that a lot of people reading your article are gooners. That picture gave me the jitters!
nilz21
Jan 25, 2013, 14:35 #31190

Read Wengers latest comments about limiting transfers to two in Jan for everyteam. stupid F**k needs to just shut up and do the talking on the pitch. Arrograne of this man is beyond belief. How lucky he is to get 7.5 million a year. Anyother club so called top club would have sacked him buy now. The man has hijacked our club and is trying to re-write its great history before he CAME along. Should have left with his head held high when his beloved youth plan failed with the likes of sendoros, eboue, bendtner,denilson, failing and the sale of Fabregas who the whole team was built around. Sounding more and more like a man that belongs in a straight jacket. Out of touch with the reality of modern football.
billthered
Jan 25, 2013, 14:01 #31189

Who knows what team he will put out on saturday,all I know is we are all being sucked into this fourth place trophy business.Do you remember we used to win both premier and fa cup and sometimes in the same season,oh where have we gone wrong.
jj
Jan 25, 2013, 13:54 #31188

As Wenger said in his press conference.We have two players for each position.He forgot to say that many of them are sub-standard.He really specialises in p***ing the fans off every time he opens his mouth.I would like him more if he was a mute.
chris dee
Jan 25, 2013, 10:13 #31186

We should be alright tomorrow. I have been encouraged by reading a Koscielnly interview on the official Arsenal website, better known as www.bland on bland.com that what the players have learned after the Bradford defeat,and hold on to your hats on this one,was that the 'lesson learned is it's not just your quality that wins games'. Eureka!What a mind blowing revelation!What an earth shattering disclosure!The players would never have guessed it,their eyes have been opened after many years of darkness. Our players, after playing at the highest level for club and country have finally unlocked the previously mysterious art of 'running your guts out'for your team. Clucking Bell,talk about stating the bleedin obvious! now see the errors of our ways.We just didn't realise that
Ron
Jan 25, 2013, 9:35 #31184

I dont think we ll see JW, Giroud or Mertersacker and i suspect Gibbs may be rested too.Hard to say really as Wengers under pressure and the FAC may be his salvation this time.
Bulls*it Baffles Brains
Jan 25, 2013, 9:29 #31183

I don't know why you are worried about player fatigue. Arsene and his scouting team have identified two potential quality signings? Probably the same ones that haven't materialised over the previous winter transfer windows. Who really believes he is even looking? I doubt Sky will bother to send any representatives to the London Colney any time soon.
Stroud Green Road Boy
Jan 25, 2013, 9:24 #31182

Telling photo. Didn't realise it's so long ago we last won something that George V was still on the throne.
Tony Evans
Jan 25, 2013, 8:33 #31179

With you all the way on this - just wish I had more faith in the first team and Inspector Clueless to do the job at Brighton. Who knows what sort of performance we are going to see with this lot and this manager.
mark from aylesbury
Jan 25, 2013, 8:16 #31178

Sadly the weight of recent history falls heavily on the players. Can see it all blowing up in our faces. The only way to change this is change the manager. Think this may happen sooner than later. Ive noticed that someone is leaking info from the camp. Sure sign that power shift is taking place.
TC
Jan 25, 2013, 8:00 #31177

Lets not get too excited about the cup - it was only 4 weeks we had a great opportunity against bradford and we f'''''d that up with a full first team.