Indefensible?

Online Ed: Familiar Arsenal share spoils v Liverpool



Indefensible?


The notion that Arsenal are somewhat disorganized defensively is nothing new in recent seasons. When exactly the rot set in is debatable, although it was ventured to me by Gooner contributor Ian Henry last night, as we were watching the game together, that the 4-4 home draw with Spurs in autumn 2008 was probably it.

I remember asking Arsène Wenger at the AGM a year later what he intended to do to reinstate Arsenal’s reputation for defensive solidity as it had certainly gone south. He informed me that you can’t buy centre halves off a supermarket shelf and that ‘we are working very hard’ on the issue. I’ve not seen a great deal of evidence of that claim since.

I have not even bothered looking at Newsnow this morning. Reputedly, the club are still active in the transfer market trying to finalise deals for Diame from West Ham, Gourcoff from Lyon and (hallelujah!) a defender - Fernando Amorebieta from Atletico Bilbao. I do not know if the latter will be able to take control of his colleagues and run the backline on strings, but there is certainly no-one at the club currently doing that. Frankly it’s a shambles, as the two Liverpool goals demonstrated last night. And they could have easily had more, thanks to the Keystone Cops defending the assembled crowd witnessed.

The attack got them out of jail with two well taken second half goals, Walcott’s strike and the build-up to it especially tasty. Arsenal dominated the second half, but were still vulnerable to the counter attack. A draw was probably a fair result on the chances created. However, Liverpool aren’t that good a side, and the idea that Jordan Henderson is able to dribble through the entire defence should be raising questions at London Colney. As for the goalkeeper’s attempted Johan Cruyff impression, words fail me. There is a place for fancy tricks. But it isn’t in your own half let alone penalty area. The idea of sometimes taking the safe option instead of obsessing about possession needs to be re-introduced if the defence is ever to improve.

There is no doubt that Arsenal would be well served by buying some players that are better than a number of the current crop. But additionally, some hard work needs to happen in coaching to hone this side of the team. Steve Bould is handsomely rewarded to sit next to Wenger on matchdays and carry out the manager’s drills in training, but no-one watching the Gunners these days can believe he is being allowed to do credible work on the backline. Wenger wants technical players who are good on the ball. But sometimes their self-belief in this department gets the team into trouble. How many goals conceded this season are a consequence of individual errors, the ball being lost in areas where it simply should not be? Too many risks taken in the name of possession football.

I do not see any solution. Arsène wants to do it his way. That way may not be good enough for a top four place anymore, unless Spurs, Everton and Liverpool have worse run-ins. There is an argument that Arsenal have got most of their difficult fixtures out of the way. Only Spurs at the Lane and Man United at home are regarded as games they should not be able to win. But on current form, no-one is taking this weekend’s visit of Stoke as a given, especially if Andre Santos continues at left back.

One final thought. Grade A game, Liverpool fans paying £62 for lower tier corner tickets. It looked to these eyes as if they took up their entire allocation for a midweek January game that was live on television.

The current issue of The Gooner will be on sale for the this weekend’s home game v Stoke. It can also be bought online here. There is also an e-version of the issue available to read on your ipad/tablet/iphone/android. The app is free and you can download the first few pages of each issue as a taster before deciding whether or not to purchase the whole thing.


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104
comments

  1. Alsace

    Jan 27, 2017, 15:33 #97532

    I don't think that I would compare Iwobi to Carzorla. Firstly he has more physical presence than the wee man. Secondly his default position is to drive the attack from box to box. When Iwobi plays, we look like a different team. He always makes himself available for a pass and has the confidence to go through players. That quality is non existent in Ramsey or Walcott, who simply lack the confidence to win a 50 / 50 challenge. The normal response of our team as a whole is to go round the defence in a pattacake way. Some move round it swiftly and effectively, eg Bellerin and Sanchez, and some more round it slowly unil the lose the ball, eg Ramsey and Walcott and some simply make no progress at all. Iwobi says, " get out of my way" like P Vieira or E Petit and beats players. He also knows when to pass the ball. He reminds me in a way of David Rocastle, and you can't really praise more highly than that. Even the manager can see that he's worth his place in the team, and long may it continue.

  2. TonyEvans

    Jan 27, 2017, 10:39 #97526

    Ditto what Gaz says. Shame it has become necessary but there are always idiots out there that spoil things for others and it will great to be rid of the prat.

  3. Gaz

    Jan 27, 2017, 10:08 #97524

    Anything that stops that complete and utter weirdo posting is fine by me.

  4. gooner.ed

    Jan 26, 2017, 17:42 #97523

    Ok, so gooner.ed aka website editor here. So to post in the comments going forward you will have to be registered on the gooner forum. Some of the regulars may already well be. Sadly, we've had to go down this road because there aren't enough hours in the day to delete the posts of our favorite troll Jamerson and the large number of other aliases he uses - including imitating myself and posting as 'website editor' more than I do. So sure, there won't be so many comments, but there will also be less trolling. Jamerson - There are plenty of other websites on which you can do your trolling. See you in church...

  5. Bard

    Jan 26, 2017, 16:22 #97522

    Some excellent posts. I feel sorry for you Simon. Your posts are bit like moving deckchairs around the Titanic, ever hopeful that the ship wont go down. Which players have really improved over the last 2 seasons. Bellerin probably Monreal possibly. That sadly is it. I could name a handful who have either atrophied or gone backwards. As most have suggested Iwobi looks a good prospect but on past evidence will be shunted here and there until he too gets mired in the mess.

  6. mbg

    Jan 26, 2017, 16:20 #97521

    jj, of course it's only bullshyte spin mate, he was on earlier in the pre match pressers (how I hate that voice)talking shyte about being in the game for thirty five years, a manager for thirty years, seen a lot of things from the dug out blah blah (he hasn't learned much then, but no surprise there) when asked what he thinks will happen/how long he'll be banned, nothing, what arrogance. Funny how we never heard about these impassioned speeches he's supposed to be giving before he was sent off. wenger out.

  7. Arseneknewbest

    Jan 26, 2017, 15:45 #97520

    Jjet - I'm always wary of anyone who uses the words "passion" or "passionate" when talking about anything except the old "in-out" (or in Jamee son's case ceaseless dna-delivery onto biscuits). E.g. I'm passionate about baking bread/selling double-glazing/analysing spreadsheets/watching 8 out of ten cats prefer scratching jimmy carr's nutbag etc. etc. None of it rings true. So for corporate wengo to use the "p" word underlines his phoni-ness. Next thing you know he'll be mis-using that awful word "iconic" to describe his crumbling tenure at asano.

  8. mbg

    Jan 26, 2017, 15:39 #97519

    RedShirts, spot on, that's what we need and hopefully that's what the new manager does (like any right thinking manager does) plays players in their proper position, buys players for their proper positions with the intention of playing them there (unlike TOF who if he seen a great defender would try and convert him into a midfielder or winger) and do it ad give them a chance to shine and excel, how many players could have done that for us over the last seven eight years if given the chance and allowed to if it weren't for this old past it manager and his out of date failed philosophies. wenger out.

  9. jjetplane

    Jan 26, 2017, 15:08 #97518

    More and more convinced Wenger's apparent show of passion is just a marketing ploy to inject some/any enthusiasm into a club dying in a sea of corporate banality. This talk of 'I am passionate about football' show he most certainly is not. No passionate coach has to tell prople he is passionate. You can see in their matchday behaviour. If fiddling with your duvet zip and warding off worms is what you call passion, then yes, I am wrong. All this **** as well of 'I will accept the charge...' is a bit like 'I will accept the new contract ...'. Arrogant. Funny how Atwood and Sons do not even mention it though no doubt they are working on Donald Wenger v the establishment type crap. ps 'he only cost a mil/and he's better than Ozil' - oh dear .....

  10. mbg

    Jan 26, 2017, 14:02 #97517

    Here you go again rose tinted, talking crap about this one that one being the new somebody else, versatility, technique, etc, etc, even Tony Kroos (did you manage to keep a straight face there) the list to boring to mention goes on as if it matters, it doesn't, in your attempt to big up and cover your messiahs failings, and make it look as if he matters and is important in all of this, he's not, you can write all the boring blogs you like about form, pace, technique, flexibility, replacing ( at least you kept this brain fart short) because it'll make no difference and never will until your messiah pisses off (and then what you wright may matter)and we have a manager who under stands all these things and knows how and is willing to implement them, so you'd be better off sticking to that. We want wenger out now.

  11. Tony Evans

    Jan 26, 2017, 12:52 #97516

    RedShirts - You need a couple of versatile players that can do a decent job covering for injuries / suspensions but, as you say, Wenger takes this principle far too far. You get the feeling that when, for example, he's on the look out for a left / right back he's more concerned with how they perform going forward rather than their defensive capabilities. Ditto central defenders and holding midfielders. A Wenger striker has to be able to play out wide, and so it goes on. As you say as a consequence we end up with square pegs in round holes, and hardly any player that is the bees knees in one position only - central striker at the moment being a case in point. Is Perez a winger or a striker? Wenger clearly has no idea - whatever he is though he doesn't deserve to be behind Wally, Ramsey and the Ox in the first team pecking order.

  12. Ron

    Jan 26, 2017, 12:40 #97515

    Tony/Redshirts....yes, its why in my view the job for a new Coach one one hand is a real bummer while on the other is a great job. Its a hiding to nothing job though in my view. Lots of players who themselves dont even know their best positions! Wenger over rates the players abilities. The players start to believe theyre all a cross between Cruyff, Krol, Baresi and Ronaldo, Wengs lets them revel in the delusion and we end up with a boat load of arrogant, flicking, fannying about, tip tap toe fancy dans who think the games are like non aggression fun games in a park at Butlins. I personally think quite a number will eventually be moved on. The conundrum for a new Coach is how many and how quick. Start with the Wally, the Willy, the Welly and the least Ramboish Rambo ive ever seen and take it from there i reckon.

  13. jeff wright

    Jan 26, 2017, 12:38 #97514

    We need a new manager not players trying to impersonate ones who have failed to win anything of any note with us. What is the point in trying to replicate failure>? A new impetus is required ,new tactics instead of tippy tappy sideways pass the parcel moves . A new medical regime ,the current one is still failing. Wally who is out again injured says that Wengo is all fired up giving impassioned speeches to the players in the changing room about how much he wants to win the title. If you believe that then you really will believe anything. It is rather odd though that he doesn't do any shouting at them during games but instead rants at match officials instead.You couldn't make it up.

  14. Paulo75

    Jan 26, 2017, 12:23 #97512

    Next up from Simon - Could the moon be made of cheese?

  15. jjetplane

    Jan 26, 2017, 12:20 #97511

    Ah yes - smiling Santi and when was it he (like say a Pires) drove Arsenal on to win PLs. Next! The answer is Iwobi can be the next Santi if he just gets that annoying selfie pose right and takes most of the season off to be a tv chef on Spanish cable.

  16. Redshirtswhitesleeves

    Jan 26, 2017, 12:20 #97510

    Ron, Tony that's another of Wengers big faults. He loves players to be versatile to the extent he plays them all over the place, never nailing down their 'own' position, Xbox jack being the prime example. Thus we end up with chronic square pegs in round holes syndrome. I fear Iwobi is going to suffer the same fate, does anyone know what his best position is?

  17. Tony Evans

    Jan 26, 2017, 11:52 #97509

    Ron - I tend to agree that, although I like Iwobi, he could become another player that never makes a position his own. We've had lots of them through the Wenger years, some purely down to Wenger's baffling team selections, but others that are just not good enough to boss any position and make it their own: Wally, Jack and Ramsey spring to mind straight away. Wenger, of course, compounds the problem by never facing up to the fact that the player concerned is not up to the job and needs shipping out.

  18. Ron

    Jan 26, 2017, 11:26 #97508

    Hard to say what Iwobi is. Hes got a nice touch, movement and desire for football by the looks of him. Not sure hes got a strikers instinct really. Seems to fluff a good many chances. He could be more like a new Welbeck. I like the lad but hes at risk it seems to me of being another who does a bit of this or that and thus forges no fixed position or specialist expertise, an oft repeated Wenger 'footprint' left on quite a few players down the years. As for Cazorla, good player but rarely around these days. Best days have gone. Has he been a great success story at AFC? Not really in my view. Too much absence through injury and its been a shame for the guy. Hes one player when injured who we do actually miss!

  19. Leggys

    Jan 26, 2017, 11:20 #97507

    You avin a bubble shirley !

  20. Kenny

    Jan 26, 2017, 11:03 #97506

    Just like Diaby was the new Vieira and Wally Walnutt was the new Henry.You couldnt make this garbage up

  21. Roy

    Jan 26, 2017, 10:40 #97505

    Have a word in Wengo's ear and see if he can tempt Will Ferrell from Liverpool. Well, he's played the role before hasn't he ?

  22. Redshirtswhitesleeves

    Jan 26, 2017, 10:23 #97504

    I'm not sure if iwobi is being over hyped a little. I think he needs more games and more time to develop without the pressure of being labelled the 'new' this or that. Cazorla of course was developed elsewhere and thus presumably had the benefit of being properly coached somewhere along the line, something which Iwobi will not be getting under Wenger. Good luck to the lad, I like what I see but I can't say I'm thinking wow this kids a superstar in the making or anything like that

  23. GS

    Jan 26, 2017, 10:21 #97503

    No idea ref Iwobi/Carzola question. One things for sure we have seen the best of Carzola, trying to hang onto him coming back and giving us something extra is no longer viable, we need to work with what we have and for Wenger to sign new players, or maybe not if he will be leaving. Lets get through Feb, as that will tell us when our season is likely to end.

  24. Leek the Squeak

    Jan 26, 2017, 10:17 #97502

    If Arsenal beat Southampton or win 2-2 then it's because of the mighty Wengie. If Arsenal lose it's because everybody is picking on Wengie. Mr Wengie must stay for ever, unlike that pussy BBA who only wants 10 more years. Squeak, squeak.. Jeff can go sniff my cheese I've been storing it in my nest and it's sweating nicely, squeak, squeak..

  25. John F

    Jan 26, 2017, 10:15 #97501

    The homegrown rule is something the club has to keep an eye on .We have nine players who qaulify over 21 so we can afford to lose one which looks like it is going to be Jenkinson.Awobi can be included in May as he reaches 21 and with Jack back we can lose another two in the summer.The problem is the lack of good homegrown players available to buy .With this in mind Awobi Is a very valuable player to have in the sqaud.Jack,Macey,Coquelin, Martinez,Jenkins on,Welbeck,Wally,Ramsey,Gibbs ,the Ox.There is a case for clearing at least half out but it may not be practical to do so.

  26. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jan 26, 2017, 10:10 #97500

    Wasn't it fun seeing Coco The Clown's loveable bunch of Bin Dippers getting it last night. Mind you we're next in line, so expect a long 90 minutes come Saturday.

  27. Simon Prose

    Jan 26, 2017, 10:02 #97499

    Another classic AKB Rose load of garbage today I see! After his epic "could Giroud and Perez be the new Bergkamp-Henry" (because they did alright against the mighty Preston LOL)...today Mr Head-in-bottom Rose doubles down! Could Iwobi be the new Cazorla? Maybe. Then again, he could be the new Christopher Wreh! Hahahaha the wonders never cease. Next week from Mr Rose: could Sanogo be our next mailroom assistant?

  28. Tony Evans

    Jan 26, 2017, 9:32 #97497

    Good article Simon although I am sure it won't take long for the comments to descend into the usual boring Wenger in/out debate. Cazorla's absence does indeed make a big difference and for me only serves to highlight Ozil's inadequacies. Cazorla is the beating heart of the team, something that Ozil should be but rarely, if ever, is. As for Wilshire who knows? I would get rid but that's not Wenger's style: Jack, along with Wally, Ramsey etc are firm Wenger favourites and will be indulged as long as the status quo remains the same. I like Iwobi and he could slot in to the Cazorla role but I fear he will join a long list of players that Wenger has destroyed over the years.

  29. Bard

    Jan 26, 2017, 9:19 #97496

    Iwobi looks useful and in a few years could be a top player. Who was the last young player that came through at Arsenal to became a top player? Cesc maybe or Bellerin. What is our track record on young players coming through? They stall or get injured mostly. If Iwobi wants to become a top player he needs to get a move to another club. Arsenal currently is graveyard for young players. Sadly Jack is finished in my book. He is playing at his right level now. As others have mentioned he looks overweight and in cruise mode. Also while Ozil is the playmaker there is no place for him. As an aside I read that Wenger is going to read the riot act to Granit for his Heathrow outburst and .....er Granit is going to give Wenger a dressing down for his touchline outburst. Wonderful

  30. Arseneknewbest

    Jan 26, 2017, 8:18 #97495

    Could Wengo be Arsenal's new George Graham? Could atom and humber be Arsenal's new gunnersaurus? Could Jeff Reine-Adelaide be Arsenal's new Iwobi? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......Maybe more pertinent to ask why Cazorla remains injured, but why Jack has possibly already played more minutes for the cherries than he ever has for the Arsenal? The answer, unsurprisingly, is connected to the chihuahua of doom. Omens not looking good for the game on Saturday. I've drafted bouldo's press statement already, as follows - We didn't expect the mighty southampton to come at us so quickly. At least we pulled one back to make it 4-1 at half-time. But that effort cost us dearly and the lads did well to keep the deficit to single figures. Atom and Humber really lifted morale at half time, especially when one of them laid a 13 inch cable by the cocktail and vol-au-vent trolley. The gaffer has already been on the phone from Antibes to tell me that I'm getting sacked, but not until after we lose to Chelsea.

  31. Danny

    Feb 02, 2013, 13:07 #31437

    Why is everybody on here so uptight.There's no crisis at Arsenal we will easily finish fourth and I believe we are still by a long shot the most exciting and explosive team going forward in the country, the defence I agree needs a little tweeking but just getting on players backs never does anyone any good.Spuds,Pool and Everton look very ordinary in my opinion and are no way any match for us.The FA cup is well winnable and I think we will surprise a few people in this years Champs LGE so stop dripping all is still most rosey in Arsene's garden.Also just read the Stokie's forum and they seem to all expect to get hammered today and like you lot they also want their manager sacked.Boy am I glad I ain't no pessimist life would be just too unbearable,when I see what great talent we have at this club it makes me wanna smile.

  32. allybear

    Feb 01, 2013, 21:35 #31433

    Well at least we have a new defender,i dont know anything about him but hope he will be a good addition.Yes it was dreadful defending against Liverpool but a good fightback. The defence is a shambles but how will it be fixed? The BFG is a disaster and its hard to believe he has so many caps for Germany. I still think that we need a new manager.

  33. Rocky RIP

    Feb 01, 2013, 19:12 #31432

    @David the price - in our defence, I'd say we suffer from a footballing form of split personality. We're still capable of genuinely fantastic football when attacking, but yet can be calamitous in defence minutes later. We're as brilliant as we are awful, all in one game. Like one of those pantomime characters with two faces, that changes from a smile to a sad face when it turns round (!) I just don't know where I am with this lot. Perhaps because our emphasis on one is to the detriment of the other. Our interchanging, movement, and link up play is still fantastic. I stand by that emphatically. Particularly with Jack driving it on. @Canada Gooner - 'we cant beat spurs or liverpool home or away' - I know you've now clarified/re-defined the english language and the basic premise of how one football team beats another, but that's just ignoring the simple facts - Arsenal 5-2 Spurs TWICE in the same calendar year and a 2-0 win away at Liverpool this season. Liverpool have taken 1 point from a possible 6 from us us this season. I'm glad you're not a barrister defending Arsenal's case. We'd be unfairly sent down as Tottenham laughed from the public gallery. I doubt any of us are comfortable watching Arsenal in answer to your question. Even 4-0 leads have slipped away (given the wrong ref). I wish the clock down when watching on SKY. Sometimes pausing it and watching through fingers, at double speed ..It's THAT unbearable watching us defend a lead. They've reduced some of us to nervous wrecks!

  34. CanadaGooner

    Feb 01, 2013, 15:40 #31428

    @MandyDodd - Mandy, beating a team is when you win convincingly. If you feel we can beat Spurs and Liverpool, then all is well at the Emirates then. Yes, we won at home V Spurs, and then scraped a draw V Liverpool from 2 goals down; but tell me this: when was the last time you sat and watched Arsenal at the Emirates against any of those teams and felt comfortable? (for me the last was when we beat Chelsea 2 - 0 and actually outplayed them).

  35. Gooner

    Feb 01, 2013, 13:12 #31421

    See your sources on transfers were bang on again!

  36. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 01, 2013, 12:51 #31419

    Agree with Tony Evans,his hand has been forced, even he has seen how useless Santos is,but that still might not stop him playing him against stoke.Judging by pictures at least Monreal doesn't look fat, so we can be thankful for that,all we're waiting on now if it hasn't already been said is he's top top top quality time will tell.

  37. C

    Feb 01, 2013, 12:35 #31418

    Gooner Fan - frankly, I think it's a bit much to ask for my excuses before I'm even found to be wrong! Obviously what I would say about that would depend on what happens between now and then, should it turn out that I'm incorrect in what I expect to see. To be fair, we KNOW that Wenger lies in public all the time, because as you pointed out, he contradicts himself all the time. It would not be too far fetched to believe he may respect the confidentiality of the board room and not reveal information he's been asked not to. What I have argued is that Wenger isn't (or hasn't been, until very recently) sitting on very large transfer funds that the board have made available to him - I'm quite comfortable with the idea that he might agree with them to limit spending for the time being. For the record (a broken one, admittedly, because you have a very selective memory) IF Wenger is refusing to spend money on transfer fees purely to maintain his zero net spend, I think he's letting everyone down and should be sacked. If he's keeping his powder dry to make the most of it later, let's see how results pan out before judging that decision. Maybe he should go if we finish outside the top four (again, something I've said before). As for over-achieving, based on resources expended, he is. It's a fact. Sorry if you don't like that. My point is that we could criticise individual decisions or aspects of the style of ANY manager - but the big picture demonstrates that, over all, Wenger is doing as well as could be reasonably expected.

  38. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Feb 01, 2013, 11:56 #31417

    @Gooner Fan, it was Usmanov who recently said Wenger was being 'sacrified', though I believe he said it for PR reasons. But yes, even were it true it doesn't exactly paint Wenger in a great light either, if he's prepared to 'sacrifice' himself for his vast salary. As a self-proclaimed principled man he should resign and expose the board as withholding funds, if his true interest really is the long term good of AFC.

  39. WHL87

    Feb 01, 2013, 11:49 #31416

    The Liverpool goals were pure comedy - from Sagna falling over, to Vermaelen's ugly air shot, to Henderson (£20M anyone?) turning Fatty inside out. If I didn't care so much, I'd laugh. That aside, imo our biggest problem defensively is what Wenger asks his full backs to do. For years he has askled them to constantly bomb on and when (not if anymore)we lose the ball, they are miles upfield and in no position to defend the counter attack. We could get away with it at Highbury - better team on a much smaller pitch - but at the Emirates we are exposed time and again. Our full backs need to be defenders first and disciplined only to attack when the situation merits it.

  40. Gooner Fan

    Feb 01, 2013, 11:42 #31415

    @Chris: I am calm, thank you very much, my friend. It's just that you Wenger apologists are an amusing bunch with when it comes to excuses to try to save your messiah. It's quite laughable. Anyway, "Wenger is being sacrificed", yes exactly that kind of words Wenger apologists would use to describe their messiah. LOL. I looked that up and all I can find about it, is an opinion piece on Just Arsenal, that got no concrete proof that Wenger is being "sacrificed" by the board, but I suppose the Wenger apologists like to cling on to that one for hope as proof to absolve Wenger of any responsibility. You can't seem to take it in that there's a possibility that Wenger is in cahoots with the board, hell why wouldn't he? He's paid £7m a year (you're one million off) and given so much power in the 3rd most successful club in England, despite not improving the squad and going trophyless for 8 years, so he do his youth project that he failed to do when he was managing in Monaco. So what you're saying is Wenger is compulsive liar when he said that the board backs him? Even though I believe Wenger isn't the manager he once was and should step down, I still think he has integrity to stop the board from making a fool out him, if it's true that the board is supposedly working against him and stopping him spending money. I suppose £7m a year will shut ones lips, eh? You may mention that you have no problems with constructive criticism towards Wenger, but I find that hard to believe, seeing as in past comments you keep harping on how according to your stats that Wenger is "overachieving" to anyone who criticise Wenger. So you changed your mind, seeing as this season isn't quite as rosy as past seasons? Regarding "balls", well seeing as you're the only Chris here on onlinegooner, who is hardcore Wenger apologist, you mentioned on another website that the team will significantly strengthen the squad and no further departures to good players leaves in the next 6-7 months. Just wondering what will your excuses be if that doesn't happen. Will you point the responsibility to the board AND Wenger or work your way to absolve Wenger once again. You have no problems confronting people here, when someone's prediction turns out to be wrong, I'm just doing the same thing. Btw, there are Wenger apologists who're just as bad as the Wenger out people with the vitriol, just search them, so don't think one party is innocent in this debate.

  41. Radfordkennedy

    Feb 01, 2013, 9:57 #31414

    From what i understand Nacho was recommended to us by the former Leeds and West Ham full back Tony Doritos.....Seriously an expert on spanish football stated that Nacho is more of an attacking wing-back,which in my opinion is not quite what we needed,i'd much prefer someone more defensively minded,but apparently he's good in the tackle and can at least cross a ball,so good luck son welcome to The Arsenal.

  42. chris dee

    Feb 01, 2013, 9:42 #31413

    Only just recovered from the shock of the defending in the Liverpool match and am able to use my keyboard again. It's been pointed out before but the question has to be asked. What sort s**t coaching and mindset is given to Chesney that he even thinks about poncing about like a schoolkid playing in the playground in his own area? What sort of s**t coaching and mindset is given to the whole team when it comes to defending? Words like disgrace,shambles,disorganised are rightly used to describe our defending but the biggest truth is that it is unprofessional. For Arsene to come out in the press after the match and state that the defensive frailties are down to our attacking 'philosophy' confirms that even if we had Pique,Vidic,Ferdinand,Puyol,Kompany etc our defensive unprofesionalism would soon reduce these great defenders to nervous wrecks. Arsene you can stick our 'philosophy'The overiding philosphy of a club is winning matches ,end of story.I don't watch a match like the Liverpool game and think,never mind,as least we stuck to our 'philosophy'.What arrogant condescending bull***t from our manager. But hang on we have someone coming to our rescue ,it's Nacho Monreal who one assumes ,given his C V, is a decent player. But be afraid,be very afraid because the first phrase Arsene use to describe him was that he is 'techically gifted'.............. Which in Arsene speak means he can just chuck him in and let him improvise.

  43. Chris

    Feb 01, 2013, 9:34 #31412

    @ Gooner Fan – calm down my friend, if something happens to you I’ll hold myself responsible if you carry on like that! Unfortunately in your rush to attack me you seem to have overlooked my whole point (as well as inventing a few I didn’t make - no one said you believed every word from the board, as you’ll see if read my post again) which is that there’s so much conflicting information coming from the different parties (yes, including Wenger – I haven’t overlooked that self-evident fact) that it’s impossible to tell which is rubbish and what, if anything, is true. Obviously if Wenger IS being ‘sacrificed’, he would say that the board had always supported him, wouldn’t he? He’s paid £6m per year to do so. That’s one possible interpretation anyway. As for people criticising Wenger, I’ve never had a problem with reasonable, well thought out, non-offensive criticisms of the manager that are consistent with the observable facts – but many, unfortunately, are not. Finally, I can’t quite see the logic of it requiring ‘balls’ to lay responsibility on anyone. If you’re suggesting that it requires bravery to post anonymous vitriol – or even constructive criticism – of Wenger on the internet, then I’d strongly beg to differ.

  44. Chris

    Feb 01, 2013, 9:20 #31411

    @ Mark from Aylesbury - yes, that is one of several possible interpretations. My point, though is that because there's so much smoke and mirrors with what's being said by all parties, we are all better off if we keep and open mind and don't give too much weight to anything said by any of the parties, no matter how it sits with what we believe or would like to believe...

  45. Tony Evans

    Feb 01, 2013, 8:42 #31409

    I see that Wenger's hand has been forced and we now have a new left back. Let's hope this fella is a proper defender and not more suited to being a left winger, which is usually the case with Wenger's attack, never mind the defence attitude.

  46. Moscow gooner

    Feb 01, 2013, 5:42 #31408

    AW said we couldn't afford to drop any points after Chelsea if we were to win the 4th place 'trophy' for yet another season: a strange comment anyway given the tightness of the table, but we re two down already and more to come: who would back us to beat Utd currently? The bigger concern, as others have pointed out, is that we re fast running our quality players, Jack being the obvious example, into the ground - so more injuries and tiredness will come. At least the Gibbs injury has brought us a decent defensive signing: shame he's cup tied for Bayern. As for the Liverpool game: C'est magnifique mais ce n'est pas le football!

  47. Gooner Fan

    Feb 01, 2013, 1:31 #31407

    @Chris: ah, yes the most infamous Wenger apologist comes to his rescue. What about the Wenger comments? He's more busy criticizing other teams spending and going on about how the January transfer window should be remove than strengthening his squad. He has the amazing ability to contradict himself from one interview to the next. Something you're prone to overlook. If the likes of Gibbs wasn't injured, I doubt he would have purchase a left-back, though he should have noticed that Santos is a defensive liability before signing him to Arsenal, if you seen him play at Fenerbahce. About the board, who says I believe every word of the board? What Arsenal fan in their right mind backs the board, especially with their condescending attitude toward the supporters who question their actions. You'll be lucky if you find more than a handful, not counting their shareholders and relatives, who backs them. But it's not hard to find so many Wenger apologists such as yourself, always absolve of any responsibility when it comes to transfers. The board are bunch of greedy fat cats and the most thing they are guilty of is giving Wenger a lot of power in the club such as with the transfers and letting him implement his failed youth project. Btw, Wenger said this after Usmanov's outburst, "I believe I have always had the support from the board, and am very grateful for that" Does that sound like a man who's been held at gun point by the board and forced not to spend money. Being a hardcore Wenger apologist, I know it's hard for you to believe that Wenger refuse to spend money that left for him, but if you look at his past actions and his own comments he made, it's not that crazy of an idea. It's funny how you posted that you had no problems with people criticizing the club, but as long as it's not directed at Wenger, it's alright? As you mentioned on another website, you're hoping he will strengthen the squad significantly in the next 6-7 months. But going by your staunch defense of Wenger, you'll already have excuses ready and/or will give him an extended time, seeing I doubt you have the balls to lay the responsibility on him.

  48. Mandy Dodd

    Feb 01, 2013, 1:03 #31406

    Canadagooner.."..we cannot beat spurs or Liverpool home or away" we have our problems, but i would respectfully ask you to revisit the above claim? Unless I am missing something?

  49. ianmac

    Jan 31, 2013, 23:24 #31405

    Agree totaly Kevin. All I'd like to add is that I never want to see the BUG (Big Useless German) in an Arsenal shirt again. After the way he gave the ball away in the 1st half then showed no urgency to close down, the ball was then played passed him easily, it then took him a week to turn before he slowly jogged back whilst allowing someone else to try and clear up his mess. Disgraceful. As for Chesney, just another cocky clown that isn't good enough, the euros in 2012 also proved that.

  50. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 31, 2013, 21:22 #31403

    Peter Wain, last season i was accompanying a friend who is disabled and we were using the lifts when Nigel walked in behind us on his way to club level,he still looks fit and your right he couldn't be any worse than Santos.But if the rumor/spin doing the rounds tonight is to be believed every things going to be alright as we're close to signing left back Nacho Monreal from Malaga.

  51. David the Price is Ian WRIGHT Wright Wright! ! ! !

    Jan 31, 2013, 20:13 #31402

    Where are all the counter arguments? I would like to hear some comments contrary to the ones already declared. There's a unanimity in condemnation today. The other day after West Ham's game the woodwork creaked. I'd like some honest assessment from Herr Wenger's backers please. Like, we are a second/one half team. But we always, nearly come good, even after giving head starts. We have a defensive record comparable to the teams at the top.. We have a great chance to progress in Europe?! Our bench is full of quality; AS WE HAVE TWO PLAYERS FOR EVERY POSITION. This will be proven mark Arsene's words. I have 3 keepers, 4 with the Macedonian that I WANT TO BE SEEN AS CLEVER WITH. Fabianski is the other one. Hell what do I need an experienced international keeper for? I have one in the young Pole. I love producing my own Left backs, then selling them for profit. Gibbs may be another one. Give him time. J'adore doing business with French clubs as this gives me an advantage, until it's an auction than I do what Arsene always does. I USE MY ECONOMICS BACKGROUND. Actually, finance is my raison d'être. Ok Arsene, your puffa jacket is slipping and revealing the true you, yes. Oui!! Over to the Wengerites..

  52. Wombledin

    Jan 31, 2013, 19:49 #31401

    Wenger's only ambition is adding to his record of consecutive CL league qualifications. He takes enormous pride in this, brags about it, and last season he was bragging about how we were written off by everyone, 10 points behind the spuds at one stage, and then clawed our way back to nick 3rd spot on the final day of the season while spuds didn't qualify. This is what Wenger has reduced us to, a bunch of try-hards playing brinkmanship with 4th whose only pride is trying to catch Spurs and hoping the wheels fall off them.

  53. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 31, 2013, 19:25 #31400

    Jamie carragher has probably been one of the biggest exponent of the shirt pull, the rugby hold, etc, in the box over the years, but our defenders (if you want to call them that)could take a leaf out of his book when it comes to blocking shots, and start standing where they are and taking a hit for the cause instead of jumping out of the way and turning their arse in case they get hurt.

  54. Greg71

    Jan 31, 2013, 18:43 #31399

    did the following ever play together wood,hill,whyte,caton (rip) and oshea ever play together? if they did i can.t recall even that unit were as so unorganised as our current band of "defenders". the formations used whether its 433, 4321 or the rare 442 has consistently failed at the top level to get over the line,what comes first the system or the players ,we have a halfway house with holes in the roof and bricks hanging out of the walls !

  55. mark from aylesbury

    Jan 31, 2013, 18:23 #31398

    Chris - personally i think Usmanov is playing a game here where he is stirring things against the board while trying to say hey im a good guy i back wenger. Where i disagree with you is if Arsene really has been hamstrung by the board then surely he should resign in protest. After all if a man of his "stature" allows this to continue then surely he becomes part of the problem. Either way Wenger out im my humble opinion.

  56. CanadaGooner

    Jan 31, 2013, 18:18 #31397

    Kev, we cant continue to shield and defend Steve Bould. He's not new to Arsenal and nobody forced him to take the job. He knew what he was coming into prior to taking the job and whether or not Arsene allows him to operate is besides the point. Players who get paid the kinds of money ours earn NEED to concentrate. No amount of training work could replace lapse in concentration. Nothing is going to change. As someone said on here last week (I think it was my mate maguiresbridgegooner) every match is now a painful uncertainty, regardless of who we're playing. We cant beat the top 3 teams home or away, we cant beat spurs or liverpool home or away; and we have to strike it lucky in order to beat any of the other teams (and that includes league 1 and conference clubs). this is the future we were promised? pathetic indeed. Any team that lets in the kinds of goals we concede so cheaply can only be where we are in the league.

  57. Gare Kekeke

    Jan 31, 2013, 17:31 #31396

    Fair play to the players for the comeback...................but yet again the defending was shambolic to say the least. As long as Wenger continues to neglect the defensive side of football, I can’t see us winning another trophy under Wenger, which is a shame for all the great things he has done for the club. So who thinks we’ll beat the German champions-elect in the forthcoming European Cup ties then eh? Believe it or not there are those who think we will. When I see the joke that is Andre Santos, Wenger really is taking the p*ss when he says we have two good players in every position. And it’s an insult to all the great left-backs we have had since the 1930s. Ramsey is good player but clearly not a defensive midfielder but then I forgot ‘Arsene knows best’. How any Wenger apologist can defend (pun intended) the continuous awful defending from our players every game is baffling. But then I forgot ‘Arsene knows best’. Why do we bother playing first halves when we only turn up for second halves? S*it defending aside, the attacking play was good and good to see further goals from Giroud & Walcott. A draw was a fair result but the comeback shouldn’t gloss over the possibility that Wenger’s so-called greatest ever squad (until next season’s rag bag bunch is given a similar title) are not a great team in waiting (and what an insult to the Arsenal collective of 2001-05). And FFP will not improve our defending either. Worryingly we can’t beat the big teams at home either (Tottenham aside and that was only because of that fool Adebayor). I still think we will finish fourth but only because of our experience in the current situation that we are in but that would only paper over cracks. I will echo the phrase from regular poster Gooner Goal; ‘Viva La Revolution’. For me, it can’t come soon enough. Up The Arsenal!

  58. HowardL

    Jan 31, 2013, 15:47 #31395

    How did Santos survive after Schalke? He looked last night as if he hadn't trained since then - which must have given him plenty of time for eating pies or maybe horse-burgers to speed him up?

  59. Big Dave

    Jan 31, 2013, 15:46 #31394

    If its true that Steve Bould is only allowed to put out "cones". Then if he had any shred of dignity he should resign. Just sitting next to Wenger and picking up is money each week makes his just like the other leeches at the club.

  60. Any Old Iron

    Jan 31, 2013, 15:28 #31393

    Agree totally with the titled premise. Where are we now? Where we've continuously been for many years. A team that cannot hold what it has, does not know how to hold what it has, does not play to hold what it has. Wenger's Arsenal has morphed over the years into a 'powder puff outfit, not fit for purpose. That purpose; to gather it's forces for major assaults on the Football silverware available. In this objective it's failure is glaring, and for all to see. Let's say it AGAIN. A TEAM WITHOUT A DEFENCE WILL NEVER TRIUMPH. IT WILL GET TURNED OVER, BY HOOK, OR CROOK. The previous article highlighted Arsenal's glorious past, often as a very close runner-up. I CANNOT THINK OF ANOTHER FOOTBALL CLUB TO HAVE LOST 2 EUROPEAN FINALS ON PENALTIES, and one by a goal from the halfway line in the final seconds. That game where John Hartson levelled, and where my team were vanquished by a hairs breadth will forever be etched in my mind. Arsenal is no ordinary club, we who follow Arsenal cherish it. We yearn for the wrongs to be righted. We long for opportunities where we can attempt to get in amongst the best, again. A team that because of it's approach tactically, with 'nous', will sometimes be the victor. Wenger's football philosophy overall does not I'm afraid avail Arsenal F.C in any capacity whatsoever, able to in the ebb and flow of a major game win. This has been borne out many times. Two Carling cups, Euro Champions League headers v Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd respectively. Many other awful defeats, none more so than 2006 Paris final, when we had nothing on the bench, (STILL THE POSITION TODAY)never scored in a major final was replaced. This is not down to just bloody bad luck. It is a chain, that is self inflicted because of the cavalier tactics and indisciplined 'backline'. Wenger has never seen fit to pay money for a top keeper. Cech was available years ago for 9m from a French outfit (Rennes). Maarten Stekelenburg who had a good World Cup, but went to Italy-not for a fortune. Now Fulham covet him. Arsene want's to be proved right though, just like those banners proclaiming that inside the ground. The bare facts are that Arsene has and is been constantly proved wrong. What does this all add to. Well work it out. An unequivocal Wenger out.

  61. Chris

    Jan 31, 2013, 15:28 #31392

    @Gooner Fan - did you read the comments from the owner of 30% of the club about the board's failure to back Wenger, how he deserves to be able to buy the players he wants and how he is being 'sacrificed' by the club? Now I don't give them a particularly great amount of credence myself but it strikes me how the anti-Wenger brigade seize as gospel every utterance of the board that seems to support their view, but are prone to over-look those quotes that don't.

  62. Ron

    Jan 31, 2013, 14:43 #31391

    RockyRIP. Well said. All true. Wenger is a hopeless romantic. His dream is 'Barca lite' stuff, sophistication on a football pitch and the 'beautfiful game' etc etc. He disregards the abilty that the great Barca team have/had in their own defending and the discipline that they have all over the pitch as one unit.(i appreciate theyd be half as good minus Messi of course) They say Wenger is myopic. He must be! He s oblivious, yet amazingly frustrated by the fact that a team with a high portion of frightened, lightweight no marks cant reach the same heights. The truth is that there are two players, possibly 3 if you inc Arteta wo are actually worth keeping for the longer haul. The odious Mourinho and many other of the top coaches would sell/give away the whole squad and start again with JW alone im sure of it.

  63. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Jan 31, 2013, 14:38 #31390

    @clockendjim...One look at the accounts from May, which are freely available on the club website,shows that we comfortably have 50 or 60 million for the manager to spend.The situation has actually hugely improved since then, with a profit on the summer transfers and the renegotiated Emirates contract. Wenger does not want a transfer window because he is sterile in it.He is never in a million years a dealmaker and he should be nowhere near having that resposibility for the club. The Board have neglected thier duty on this and have left Wenger to do what he wants. There is a legitamate debate to be had about Corporate Governance at our club regarding this issue.

  64. Ron

    Jan 31, 2013, 14:22 #31389

    Shearer summed it up last night ALL the defending is rubbish or 2nd rate in that Prem Lge, from top to bottom. Him and Lineker wd score 100 between em these days! Why else do you reckon a crock like Van Persie is scoring every week. Hlf his goals are gifts. Defence became a dirty word when SKY hijacked football and pressed for rule changes to make more goals and 'better' TV. 1992 was when defending and footballs decline set in fella. Tahat spuds game you mention was just the night we knew Arsenal had become weak willed bottlers (if we didnt know already)

  65. Gooner Fan

    Jan 31, 2013, 14:20 #31388

    @Richard: you're having a laugh if you think top clubs have dreadful defending like we have. It's been years now that the team's defense have been a problem, but Wenger still hasn't come close to finding a solution. Keep making your excuses for him.

  66. jj

    Jan 31, 2013, 14:18 #31387

    As you say "Arsene wants to do it his way".This is the reality for all those people out there that say we want him to stay as long as he changes.He's never going to change. He makes the same mistakes time and time again and doesn't learn for them. Most people would call that,the actions of an idiot. Please let his transfer to PSG be the last big transfer out of our club.

  67. Fozzy

    Jan 31, 2013, 14:17 #31386

    I have paid top dollar for a seat for the Bayern game in three weeks time (just as well as I am doing the match view for the mag). Just imagine how much I am going to enjoy watching Fatty Santos up against Robben.....

  68. Tony Evans

    Jan 31, 2013, 14:14 #31385

    14:00 31/01/13 and still no sign of any transfer activity. I suppose there are no super, super quality players out there for Wenger to buy. I expect he has been trying really hard to find some (that is what he will tell us anyway), even though he would be hard-pushed to improve the fantastic quality players we have at the moment - especially at the back and between the sticks. Even if Wenger did manage to bring in a quality defender or two I am sure he would waste no time in beating that sort of nonsense out of them, so he may as well not bother!

  69. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 31, 2013, 14:11 #31384

    You're not far away Kev, 08 was about the time, and we couldn't believe his spin even back then,nothing much has changed.Shambles and keystone cops defending is a good description although i'd use charlie chaplin and laurel and hardy myself,and a manager sitting on the bench shaking his head as if he was surprised.Well arsene instead of burying your head in your hands or in the sand why don't you do something about it and allow one of the top defenders the club has had to do his job,you don't have to look to far he sits beside you.And when your at it although it's probably to late now (yet again) do something about the keeper situation as we have a keeper who thinks he's arrived when he clearly hasn't,with his impression of david james and nobody to push him and keep him on his toes.This keeper has a cock up written allover him and i just hope it doesn't come in the FA cup and cost us.Well done the 100k man and giroud with another couple of good goals to get us out of jail again. The sooner giroud starts taking more of all these chances he's getting the better because with the defence in the state it's in they're going to be needed, and nobody wants him to become one of these players that need five chances to score one.It's another two points dropped in the race for the fourth place trophy, so much for the recent statement we cant afford to drop any more.

  70. James

    Jan 31, 2013, 14:11 #31383

    We have not had a great keeper since Lehmann was frozen out by Wenger.Szczesny is adequate but no more.But he is under no pressure just look at our back up keepers.Sagna has gone since the one year contract offer.He has been awful in the last two months.Gibbs is injury prone and Santos is the worst ever Arsenal LB by a mile.Now onto the CB's.TV had his best season(his first season) alongside Gallas.He hasnt been good since.To be honest the last thing he wants to do is defend.I have never rated Mertersacker he is poor in the air and woefully slow yet some rate him.As for Koscielny its like the player of last season was an imposter.The whole back 4 and keeper are disjointed.Wenger doesnt do defence and Bould is no different from Rice as a yes man.The only answer to all our problems is Wenger out

  71. Dan h

    Jan 31, 2013, 14:08 #31382

    Spirited fightback after the usual self inflicted defensive frailties.Both goals were awful the whole of the back 5 were all over the place.Santos nearly handed Liverpool all 3 points in the last minute & the GK nearly made a hash of Suarez's shot.Giroud & Walcott again linked up well & both took their goals well Wilshere again knitting the team together & pushed us forward after going behind.Our defense is poor enough the thought of Santos at LB for the next month won't help.The only solutions can only come from within as the squad cannot be strengthened according to OGL.So either TV shifts to LB or Jenkinson or Sagna will have to slot in out of position.After only seeing young Meade play once i would rather see a fit young player on the pitch than an overweight slow Santos thats what it's come to!

  72. Gooner Fan

    Jan 31, 2013, 14:06 #31381

    Total laughable defending and what Wenger is more concern about is that it was "entertaining". What a joke. Don't hold your breath that Wenger will sign anyone, hell if he does, what are the chances it will be another Santos or Squillaci? If he doesn't sign anyone, I can't wait for the excuses from the Wenger apologists. I bet it's going to be all the big bad board's fault, hell maybe even blame Gunnersaurus, seeing as they are getting desperate with their excuses. Wenger out.

  73. Rocky RIP

    Jan 31, 2013, 13:42 #31380

    When did the rot set in? A good question. I'd argue it was setting in well before the 4-4 with Sp*rs. It was happening even when we were at our best under Wenger. We'd completely outplay sides going forward, but gift them a way back into things with unforced, sloppy errors. Rampant, 2-0 and 'coasting' became 2-1 and starting to panic, thinking how have we let these lot back in with a sniff?! Thankfully, we were so good at attacking that we compensated for it. (Our defenders were mostly quality too, it was just the system they worked within.) I seem to remember Cygan ballsing up in the classic v Middlesborough on our unbeaten run. Thankfully, the quality we had in Bergkamp, Reyes, Pires, etc, made up for it. We've been letting inferior sides off the hook for ages. Infuriating. How many of our goals this season have been avoidable? If you get beaten by a brilliant bit of play, fair enough. When you're left feeling like we didn't do enough to avoid a goal, it's unforgivable. Tony Adams would have pinned certain players to the dressing room wall for some of their play. Do this lot get a rocket? I doubt it, hence why they never learn. This Arsenal hurts my head, as we looked excellent attacking Liverpool in the second half. Anyone who slags off Giroud for his 'miss' at the end needs to watch it again. The cross from Podolski took a big deflection off Agger and took it away from goal and whacked into OG12. There's little to no chance of connecting with those. Still, it doesn't stop the papers from slaughtering him for missing an 'open goal'. Is Vermaelen good enough to be captain of Arsenal? I have serious doubts. The best defenders aren't flashy or showy, they are the ones who make the fewest errors. eg. Gary Neville. The shop steward.

  74. Mark T

    Jan 31, 2013, 13:36 #31379

    Another really solid analysis of the game and the state we're in. The most frustrating thing about our defence is that we keep on making the same mistakes, game after game after game. How many times does Vermaelen have to entirely miss the ball with an attempted clearance before he realise that it might be worth engaging his brain. What is Mertesacker doing jumping over a ball which then proceeds to hit the back of our net. And as for Henderson's goal.....the only thing missing was the Benny Hill theme tune. Keystone cops indeed. Annoying, though, that our manager has come out and said that conceding goals is the result of our style of attacking play. Excuse me but neither of the Liverpool goals were due to us having a attacking philosophy. These kind of statement make us and him look stupid. Moreover, it gives the players an excuse not to face the truth. I'm not going to even comment on Santos and Ramsey....

  75. Paul Heaton

    Jan 31, 2013, 13:05 #31377

    I still believe that our defenders are, by and large, decent players. The problem is the lack of organisation, defensive discipline and concentration. They're all so intent on setting up the next attack that they forget to do the basics of their job. Nobody's telling me that when we signed Steve Bould and Lee Dixon from 2nd Division Stoke they were better players than Mertesacker and Sagna who have 100 odd caps for Germany & France between them. The difference is that George Graham wanted to improve the defence so he worked on them until they became an integral part of the unit, and they became the great players that they were. Wenger clearly isn't interested in 'boring' stuff like that and what's worse is that he won't let anyone else sort it out for him. Consequently the same scenario gets played out over and over again. Last night was the 7th time in our 12 home league games that we've conceeded 2 goals or more. Consequently we're left with the task, more often than not, of having to score at least 3 goals to win. Anyone who believes that is the basis of a successful side is potty. The resources that City have might make actually winning the league near on impossible but we should still be doing much, much better than we are.

  76. kdmgooner

    Jan 31, 2013, 12:42 #31376

    This has to be the worst defense I have ever seen in my 50 years of watching Arsenal. A right back that cant stand up, cant cross. Two center backs, one of which turns his back on a shot despite being built like a tank, the other making wild air shots at clearances the like of which I have not seen since I used to manage an under 12's side. A fat left back who can't/won't run, has no positional sense and goes awol at the drop of a hat. A goalkeeper who makes ridiculous decisions including a poor attempt at a Cryuf turn in his own 6 yard box for gods sake. I must have aged 10 years watching this crap last night. Saturday sees the return of the evil neanderthals from the Potteries, if we lose that we really can say goodbye to 4th place (not a trophy anyway).

  77. Johnc

    Jan 31, 2013, 12:40 #31375

    Wenger out. Kronke and Gazidis out. As soon as possible please.

  78. Clockender78

    Jan 31, 2013, 12:39 #31374

    Agree with most posts on here. The defence is a total shambles, it doesn't surprise me anymore, we have had four long years of this! I honestly don't think, on current form especially, we have ONE decent defender at the club!! Samba would have improved things, i was calling for his signing two years ago!! There was no point sky sending a reporter to London colney this morning, no chance we will be signing anyone!!

  79. danalovAFCXI

    Jan 31, 2013, 12:36 #31373

    can you imagine if Tony Adams was still playing and our goal keeper tried that.

  80. Tony Evans

    Jan 31, 2013, 12:21 #31372

    Wenger appears to think that a good, solid, no nonsense defender is a waste of time. What is wrong with the man? The great defensive unit he was lucky enough to inherit, which was the platform for so much of his successful early years, seems to have slipped from his mind completely. He is not even trying to sort out the defensive shambles and now we have Gibbs out for 3 or 4 weeks. I have given up expecting any decent defensive signings and am resigned to Arsenal limping along, leaking goals like a sieve, until Wenger departs.

  81. billthered

    Jan 31, 2013, 12:11 #31371

    What the hell is Santos doing in our team,did you see his kit he looked like the last kid to get picked in the playground,we used to be THE ARSENAL smartly attired and all looking the same, dear me what have we become when we cant even get that right,and dont start me on actual defending the micky mousers should have been three up at half time.We are told by OGL that our squad is strong enough,well pardon me, more than half way through the season and we are sixth somebody please tell him.

  82. mark from aylesbury

    Jan 31, 2013, 12:10 #31370

    Probably best we dont buy anyone this window. As it will leave a new manager with cash options. Cant believe that Wenger will continue as he manages failure by taking total control. This control will come under pressure and then he will walk. A back to basics routines within defence could work wonders but i doubt it will happen. I think it is all about the changes post season that will really count.

  83. Clive the Gooner

    Jan 31, 2013, 12:07 #31369

    Absolute shambles goalie and defence it's beyond a joke. FFS Wenger go now and let someone takeover who is willing to sort the defence out

  84. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Jan 31, 2013, 12:07 #31368

    According to Wenger, the Arsenal team last night (which included Santos, Mertesacker, Ramsey, the perma-injured Gibbs and a ‘keeper who is frequently found a taxi ride away from his goal) is ‘Fantastic’. We were at home playing a side who have still yet to beat a team in the top 10 and who’s (Suarez aside) best players are nigh on retirement. We went 2-0 down to a goal scored by a mediocre youngster surrounded by FOUR ‘defenders’ and also with the goalie to beat. However, we are so good, it seems, that there is no need to look around and strengthen this ‘fantastic’ squad. My Lord, the prosecution rests.

  85. Peter Wain

    Jan 31, 2013, 12:04 #31367

    last night showed yet again that the defenders at Arsenal are very poor and not top quality. The goalkeeper is very awful. His decision making suspect his tempermanent non existent and his back up laughable. The lack of depth in the squad was show by another cameo by Fatty Santos the fattest and most useless footballer we have purchased since Gervinho. I have seen better full backs in the conference than him and certainly ones that are a good bit fitter. The thought of Santos as our first choice left back is too awful to contemplate. Why oh why cannot we ask Nigel to return. Even at is age he would be miles better than Santos. Why are we not looking at defenders we have the worst full backs and centre halves in the pl they are simply not good enough and they prove that every game they play. And what does our esteemed leader have to say about it? Wenger does not like to mention it as it might make them play worse!!!! When a limited player like Sturridge has a good game you knwo you have problms with your defenders. Also no defensive midfield player so no cover for the defence. The how shape balance of the team is wrong. Apart from Wiltshire the rest were average at best. Why Jack signed a new contract is beyond me. With the kind of investment we are getting we should be more worried about finishing in the bottom four. Last night Liverpool could have scored five goals in the first half alone. Enough is enough Kroenke go and take that useless lump Gazidis with you. Wenger you have produced great sides but your judgement of a player has gone south and we need a new manager this summer.

  86. Guildford Gooner

    Jan 31, 2013, 12:01 #31366

    Has anyone noticed Arsenes cunning new tactic to avoid players getting "over tired" in the busy winter period?Treat the first half as a gentle warm up even if you concede a few goals and then start playing for real after halftime.Brilliant,why didn't I think of that???

  87. Bard

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:54 #31365

    Spot on Kev. It was keystone cops at times last night.Quite how good players like tvm and mertesacker have morphed into sunday league players is beyond me. The other worrying issue is the lack of decent subs. Jack has been out for a year or more and is now playing 2 games a week. Wenger is running most of the starting 11 into the ground. They will be spent by the end of Feb when we have our customary collapse with Wenger citing fatigue as the reason. He then has the temerity to suggest we don't need or can't find decent players to buy in the transfer window. Santos at left back is the a symbol of all that is wrong with Wenger £6m worth of rubbish.

  88. John Abrehart

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:49 #31364

    Three things that may explain much of our present predicament; Thierry Henry's reported comments to Usmanov that Wenger's hands are tied by the present American owners as he urges him to bid for the club; andrew's comment on this blog about the £7m transfer fund limit and Wenger's comments to the media last night that we were 'fantastic' last night and 'believe in my young gunners' this morning. These last two comments smack of 'spin' to me and the club are trying to deflect criticism and lack of transfer acitivity by spouting their usual platitudes of 'jam tomorrow'. Anyone who thinks that our getting out of jail performance last night was 'fantastic' is plainly deluded. In my opinion, the American owned clubs are all in the same boat. Aston Villa, Derby, Sunderland (?) etc, they are not interested in trophies, they want to protect their investment, not that our lot have invested much. So, no important signings that are badly needed in defence and I for one rue the failure to take Cahill, Given and any decent left back when they were available. I am loathe to criticise players individually but none of our present defenders in isolation is good enough on their own, with possible exception of Jenkinson and we don't see enough of him. However, a Poyul or two thrown in could galvanise the others. From here, it looks like another wasted season that need not have been. We should call to 'usher' in Usmanov!

  89. wine boy

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:49 #31363

    Lets release a new video one of those comedy compilations of crazy football moments. We could fill up 3 hours of hilarious defending over the last three seasons. Add on a bonus disc with directors commentary from AW , and we would sell millions , maybe it would fund a new back five !

  90. Theo Jensen

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:46 #31362

    Not only was our defending appalling, we should also put our goals into context. Great cross and header for the first goal but they just let Giroud run through the dropping zone which was terrible defending. Then a great finish by Walcott and good assist from Giroud but look how far away Glen Johnson was from Walcott- shambles isn't the word. I haven't had time but I was going to write an article about whether Steve Bould got blocked out after the praise started pouring in for him: Kevin reported Wenger reacted by switching back to his way and (the bitter...) Stewart Robson said they fell out. It was mainly looking at the performances- early on we played a more compressed and tight game, the ball was won back early and opposition chances were limited. The defence was well organised and Mertesacker was great because he was played as a sweeper- but doing so meant playing a few yards deeper. Not the Wenger way it seems.

  91. Its all over

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:42 #31361

    bottom line everton and spurs are better and liverpool are as good as and we all know what our view of liverpool has been in general

  92. Graham Simons

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:37 #31360

    Simply put – we won’t finish 4th – this squad of players just aren’t gifted enough to achieve this. In many ways we have to be realistic and realise only a change in manager will change the club’s fortunes and bring it kicking and screaming into the second decade of the 21st century. I for one hope Wenger isn’t offered another contract and think he will see out his present one. Nothing will change until next year when Wenger’s contract will end and we’ll appoint a new manager – then hopefully we’ll appoint a manager who actually listens to his assistant on defensive coaching. May 2014 can’t come soon enough.

  93. n4

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:36 #31359

    I totally agree with Kevin weaver!!!!

  94. Tav

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:35 #31358

    What exactly is the point of Andre Santos?? The man should be chained to a treadmill and I suspect if he was fined on a 'pounds per pie' basis there would not be much left over from his £65k weekly wage, or whatever ludicrous sum he gets paid to prat about in our shirt...I saw Wenger's post match declaration that we showed fantastic quality, togetherness, mental strength with a great attitude and spiri...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......yes, our attacking play was commendable in the second half at 2 - 0 down but surely he has to factor the art 'defending' into any full analysis and there is precious little quality in evidence there....QPR are on the verge of signing Chris Samba this morning I see, needless to say another player Wenger deems unable to improve what we have.

  95. Iain

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:29 #31357

    Defensive frailties again but wenger won't but defender instead use vermalen as left back till Gibbs is fit and coqulin as right back cover be prepared no signings today jenko out on loan no one In

  96. Highbury Boy

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:28 #31356

    I think of all the great left backs we've had down the years. McNab,Sansom,Winterburn,Cole even Clichy then I think of Santos. Apart from Nelson Vivas who subbed occasionally I think Santos must be the worst left back in 50 years. The defending as a whole is pure Keystone Cops and Fabregas and Clichy were obviously telling the truth when they said,after leaving Arsenal,that Wenger didn't bother much with defending. Wenger was so fortunate in inheriting Graham's back 5 who passed on their good habits to the next generation but has fallen away since.

  97. clockendjim

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:18 #31355

    All the talk of Wenger having up to £70m to spend in January has fizzled out and unless there is fervent activity today we are still no stronger an outfit. If there was any intention of bringing in new talent, then it should have been in place to action on January 1. The entire back 5 with perhaps the exception of Gibbs are just not good enough and yet all tranfer talk is about bringing in further strikers and midfielders, areas that we are well covered in. What on earth has happened to 'the best right back in the PL' and the dominant leader that Vermaelen seemed to be shaping up to. Mertesacker always looked like a panic buy, but the form of Koscielny this year does not fill you with confidence. However any manager that thinks Santos is PL quality has certainly lost it in my opinion. Sadly it needs a really pragmatic manager like David Moyes who has worked wonders at Everton to bring some sense and purpose to Arsenal. I hope the club have noticed the empty seats that are beginning to appear around the Emirates. This is a reality check. Top 4 place is already looking unlikely; we will struggle to get into the Europa Cup next season.

  98. Richard

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:16 #31354

    Arsenal will make the top four easily with the firepower we have the defence is suspect but what defence isn't.Watching the other games on MOTD everybody seems to be as bad defensively as each other.Maybe it's down to the speed of the game in the Premiership.How United keep winning is puzzling.They had 10 goal attempts to the mighty Southampton's 21 yet still win, the mark of a good side we are told,or a team who are at ease that if in trouble they will constantly be bailed out by the officials.

  99. Red Member

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:03 #31353

    Wenger may well be right in that this month there are not many players for him to buy - after all it has been a very quiet transfer window for all clubs, not just Arsenal. however the problem areas (left back, defensive midfielder, goalkeeper) have existed for months if not years and should have been sorted out long before now. both manager and the board are to blame, but only the board can sack the manager. Target Kroenke to get any real change at Arsenal.

  100. Jason

    Jan 31, 2013, 11:03 #31352

    2 things I observed during the pool game. 1. Santos is not the right player to play in Left back. If he has better defensive skill, the 2nd Pool goal was avoidable. 2. Ramsey was taking time too long to pass forward, most of the case, he made side pass or back pass after took the time. In 1 or 2 occasions, if his passes were more accurate, Arsenal's attacks had not been cut short after the ball passed to him, goal might be produced. He should do more training on passing forward, during the last 5 to 10 minutes of the match.

  101. Enndless, Nameless

    Jan 31, 2013, 10:59 #31351

    From where we are now, this mob will do well to amass somewhere between 65-67 points - and that will not be enough for 4th place. The defence is a bad joke that has gone on far too long to be even remotely funny. If the statements that Wenger will not have anyone give defensive training then it is a matter for the board....oh, hang on, silly me! Martin Keown has his coaching badges and is wasted sitting on the panel of MOTD2. I forget what happened last time he was involved with the club training?..Still, "Arsene Knows".

  102. andrew

    Jan 31, 2013, 10:56 #31350

    I'm torn; I keep thinking that these are actually good players and thus we don't need any more - sagna, verm, mert and gibbs - it must be how we defend as a unit etc. Then I think about defensive midfield - "oh yeah, wouldn't a tough tackling monster be great." Then I think about gibbs getting injured and Santos. "Oh yeah, wouldn't another left back be great" And what if cazorla gets injured? "Wouldn't another flair player in midfield be great" Thus we need players too! Our defenders always start well and deteriorate, they probably forget how to defend over the years because no-ones teaching or reminding them. If we buy a defender, he needs to be pre-drilled and not 21. It's got to be a balance between being drilled and prepared and buying a couple of extra players. Wenger is scared of becoming defensively solid at the expense of attacking prowess, he'd much rather a nimble midfielder with the ability to pick out a pass. ps. an interesting post on another blog by a shareholder suggested that Arsenal are contractually obliged not to spend more than 7 million in a season before 2014! hence the Spin and selling of our best players.

  103. Kevin Weaver

    Jan 31, 2013, 10:53 #31349

    The whole situation at Arsenal seems like a shambles. Loads of players have left on loan and now we have barely any cover. Any signings now are panic buys and look what we ended up with last time Arsene panicked, Santos and Mertsesacker. I think we should keep the money in the bank and let the new manager have a go in the summer. No chance of top 4 this year, and time for Arsene to go!

  104. Alsace Lorraine De Totteridge

    Jan 31, 2013, 8:27 #31347

    I don't know whether anyone saw it, but on television last night there was the most tremendous comedy. It was an ensemble piece and everyone was joining in with the slapstick fun. I think that it was perhaps the funniest thing I have ever seen, or at least it would have been, if it had been happening to a team that I don't support. I'm afraid that if Steve Bould doesn't resign over not being allowed to do his job, then he really is, like most of the rest of them, just there for the money.