No Surprises

Online Ed: Gunners outclassed by Bayern on home turf



No Surprises

Heynckes – Well drilled team


In June 2012, Ivan Gazidis was asked at a supporters’ Q&A event, “Who is Arsene Wenger accountable to?” He responded, “the fans”. I received a text from our podcast host David Oudot just before the end of yesterday evening’s match which read -
Two men thrown out of block 100 for singing ‘Wenger Out’. Not Munich fans, not p*ssed, just singing ‘Wenger Out’. We are the USSR

Wanting clarification, I responded ‘What stage of the game was this at? Was it inciting violence?’ The response -
Seven minutes from time. Didn’t appear to be inciting violence. Took a while to get them out though. Not through violence but they rightly refused to leave as they were not doing anything wrong

Reports that North Korea will be a stop off on the Summer 2013 Asian tour are yet to be confirmed.

Ah well, let’s talk about the football. Bayern Munich demonstrated the chasm in quality that now exists between Arsenal and Europe’s top teams. The club moved stadium specifically to keep pace with the cream of the crop, but somewhere, something hasn’t quite gone to plan. In Europe, there have been occasional nights of drama and excitement, but ultimately, over two legs, the Gunners perennially fall short against the teams that their UEFA ranking suggest are their peers. They will need to score three at the Allianz Arena in the second leg to even have a chance of progressing from the tie. The bottom line is that the German side – majority owned by its supporters (and unfunded by petrodollars) – handed out a football lesson to Arsene Wenger’s players.

Aside from being more organised (apart from Podolski’s goal, I can only recall the Bayern goal being seriously threatened once), the German team seemed to work harder all round. Their harrying was reminiscent of Barcelona, ironic given Pep Guardiola will be their coach next season. They created far more danger and for 70 minutes of the match, seemed in complete control. Arsenal had a 20 minute spell during the second half when they scored and Giroud came on and almost equalised. But you would have to say that 3-1 was a fair scoreline.

The strange thing watching the match was how dispassionate I felt. I was not even annoyed when the visitors scored. The feeling has kind of gone because I think, deep down, I realise that Arsenal are not equipped to win this competition, even if somehow they managed to dispense with Bayern. And at the moment, I am not even certain I care about them making the top four. What difference will it make? The club have been selling their best players in the recent seasons that they have been in the Champions League anyway. And if Arsenal were in it next season, it’s not as if they would have any chance of winning the thing, assuming a non-tactician remains at the helm. Just the formality of group stage qualification and exit as soon as a big boy comes out of the UEFA goldfish bowl. I was able to completely relax during the 90 minutes and just appreciate Bayern’s football. If you told me top four would mean more money for a new manager to spend, then I could get excited about the race for that 4th place trophy again. Something to look forward to. As it is 2012-13 is just another groundhog day season to add to those since the club moved home. More will follow until Arsene Wenger is sacked (unlikely), resigns (unlikely), retires (maybe) or dies (a certainty).

For Wenger himself, it was a terrible night. The Champions League is his obsession. He really wants to win it to put himself of a par with the great managers who have done so. It is a glaring absence on his managerial CV. For all his talk of faith in his players, he knows, deep down inside, that tactically, he is not at the races, but stubbornly refuses to allow others to assist him in this area of weakness. It is just possible that one reason he might leave the club is to improve his chances of winning the cup with the big ears if, for example, he was offered at job with PSG or Real Madrid. His stock isn’t exactly sky high at the moment, although he may privately tell suitors that the decline in his team’s achievements has been dictated by the board’s parsimony. It’s a story his supporters choose to believe, but Wenger is a de facto board member and totally integrated with the decision making over the club’s money. Inside sources have several times indicated to me that he does have money to spend, but chooses not to.

Stan Kroenke attended the game last night. He even stayed to watch the second half unlike the last home match he attended v QPR. He’s happy with the state of affairs at the club as long as profit is being delivered. His other sports concerns back up the idea that winning trophies is not a priority. The stories of Arsene Wenger being offered a two year extension in the press earlier this week may have been mischievous, but it is likely to happen for real in the summer. The board and the owner regard him as a real asset, hence his salary, including bonuses, reputedly being the highest in the Premier League. Because the man delivers on the objectives he is set. Some fans want more, some fans are happy with what they are getting.

It has been mentioned several times that the increasing bitterness between supporters who still back Arsene and those who would like to see change has created a very unhealthy atmosphere amongst fans at games. Certainly, there is fighting amongst Gooners in the stands at matches both home and away. Freedom of expression at Arsenal matches now comes at a price. You’d think we were in Syria or something. People being ejected by the club for making their views felt does not aid the feeling of intimidation amongst those that want change, should they wish to voice their views. What has become of our football club that people can no longer express different opinions without fear of a fist in the face? Is anyone allowed an opinion if it’s not the same as your own? It’s a desperately sad state of affairs. Over to you Messrs Gazidis and Kroenke. As Ivan says, “Our fans are very important to us”. So why are they being thrown out for expressing desire for a change?

The current issue of The Gooner will be on sale this Saturday for the home match against Aston Villa. It can also be bought online here. There is also an e-version of the issue available to read on your ipad/tablet/iphone/android. The app is free and you can download the first few pages of each issue as a taster before deciding whether or not to purchase the whole thing.


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120
comments

  1. equalizer

    May 28, 2017, 10:51 #101729

    Will Wenger now leave on his own accord- not a chance. To see him like a heavyweight who just regained the world title strutting around the pitch, when he was too cowardly to do it at his home ground last week was comical.

  2. jeff wright

    May 28, 2017, 10:40 #101727

    Well done Arsene the best team won on the day .7 FA Cups won will be hard to beat by any other AFC manager at AFC but none of them are ever likely to be 21 years with us.So best accept the applause Arsene take a bow wave au revoir to the crowd and leave gracefully. 6 months down the line you might not have that opportunity. Winning the FA Cup does not mean anything regarding the future which at knocking on to 70 but looking 90 does anymore than any of your last six FA Cups did. Itill suspect however that being what you are as a person that you will still be with us next season and only token gestures will be made to try and pretend that you have changed your ways. We have been here before. Shame that TOOAW never had the bottle to tip you to win yesterday at least I suggested that you might do,what a mug that AKB troll is !

  3. equalizer

    May 28, 2017, 10:38 #101726

    First of all, great effort and performance by the players. Like any employees, it's amazing what they are capable of when they are motivated. If they only had leadership this type of effort and performance would be the norm, northern exception

  4. Rippy

    May 28, 2017, 10:33 #101725

    Honestly if you can't be happy about that you've no soul !!! Mathews I agree 100% would be a lovely way for Wenger to go out. History won't remember the disappointments it will say 7 fa cups and an unbeaten seasons. It's obvious to me personally Wenger has fallen behind his peers and it's time for him to try pastures new. But he can still win a cup can't he . 3 in four years what a wonderful fantastic thing that 95% of clubs will never ever know !! Be happy for the next few weeks . Have a few beers celebrate and hold your heads High. We are the arsenal.

  5. Mathews

    May 28, 2017, 8:35 #101724

    Well played Gunners, great effort by the team and last chance for Wenger to leave on a high !

  6. mbg

    May 28, 2017, 8:17 #101723

    Cyril, well said, oh my fooking head.

  7. CBee

    May 28, 2017, 1:12 #101722

    When the team puts in that sort of effort, you have to get behind them. Great game and well deserved victory. Have to ask why they cant do it on a regulae basis. Congratulations Arsene. Wenger Out.

  8. Cyril

    May 27, 2017, 23:35 #101720

    YOU KNOW, objectivity, collectivity, good will and shared desire for positive outcomes will always outdo selfish individualism. Thatcher was wrong. I've taken part on this forum all year and shared so many opinions and listened to so much that has been thought provoking. It's been great. We all want our team to do well and I consider myself to be a giving person as I buy my season ticket in the end to watch other people excel and punch the air for them when they score. To also read the varied thoughts from MBG to sage like RON. It's been a pleasure to sample the plethora of opinion and to absorb and then percolate thereafter. I've enjoyed it this year and would be disappointed if KW pulled the plug as I believe our actions have possibly made some change. That maybe fanciful and indulgent but I believe we are all connected from the team down to us mere mortals and am convinced that we make a difference in our words. We won the cup and that's fine by me. Enjoy the summer everyone!!

  9. mbg

    May 27, 2017, 22:59 #101719

    Pery G, well said a good win, cant help but feel proud tonight regardless, i'm enjoying my grolsch tonight, yes he's been giving another chance to go out on a high, he's never going to get it again, lets hope an pray he takes it. wenger out.

  10. Cyril

    May 27, 2017, 22:46 #101718

    So happy!! RON, any tips for the derby next week - class!!!!

  11. markymark

    May 27, 2017, 22:17 #101717

    When Ramsey's goal went in it was the first great bellow in 7 years. Stowmarket (Combine Harvester Country) was solid red and I was amused to hear how the Spuds had one f#ck! All. I work with two Chelsea supporting colleagues who were so sure all week. Maybe that affected the players slightly as well. Excellent performance the top off would be Wengo resigning but fat chance of that.

  12. John F

    May 27, 2017, 21:17 #101716

    As you might of guessed I am an old dad my eldest is 27 and youngest just turned 9.my middle son said he did not have much of a choice in Supporting Arsenal but because I moved up north I did not put so much effort in to the youngest but today confirmed him as a Gooner.Hopefully he will carry it on long after me ,wiggy and Wenger are confined to the History books.Everyone remembers their first final.

  13. PerryG

    May 27, 2017, 21:13 #101715

    I'm as Wenger out as the next man but you can't help but enjoy a cup final win over a club like Chelsea, and denying them the double into the bargain. Wenger has been given another chance to leave on a high and i really hope he takes it

  14. Wengerballs

    May 27, 2017, 21:06 #101714

    Very proud of our display today and very proud to be a gooner. We played the title winners off the park in front of a global audience. Even syrupy in the stand seemed to be enjoying it. Despite all the anger about Wenger et al and the clubs lack of sporting ambition, today we can all be very proud fans.

  15. GoonerRon

    May 27, 2017, 21:00 #101713

    @ John F - exactly the same as me. My dopey wife decided to book us for 2 weeks in Menorca so got to watch it with my 5 year mini-Gooner having been at Wembley for the last two wins. Made it ultra sweet to be fair.

  16. mbg

    May 27, 2017, 20:41 #101712

    John F, yes good game and well deserved even though Chelsea weren't exactly at the races, (maybe it was the heat or complacency we know a bit about that ) my young Son well 16 actually put up his Arsenal flag for the first time in years I don't know what came over him it's pissing rain over here, he's still bouncing. wenger out.

  17. Alsace

    May 27, 2017, 20:35 #101711

    And so the nightmare goes on, unless he takes the opportunity to go out with dignity.

  18. Seven Kings Gooner1

    May 27, 2017, 20:19 #101710

    Ron : You nailed mate, you have been saying 2-1 for a couple of weeks - Simon you got it spot on, I on the other hand got it hopelessly wrong but if you put in the effort results like today can happen. So pleased for Holding and the BFG, how Arsenal only scored two is a complete mystery. So why not this effort every week?

  19. John F

    May 27, 2017, 20:13 #101709

    Watched a clip on the forum above of the Chelsea celebration last Sunday.They announced that Arsenal failed to make the top four to great cheers then that Kos was sent off and would miss the final that was also met with cheers and a Wenger must stay song.Classless by the announcer and it made me really want to beat the chavs even more this sat.Great display by Arsenal similar to the home game against them.Really enjoyed the game as it was the first final my youngest son watched with me.Loved Holdings and Bfg display and Welbecks non stop running but Sanchez in the first half was awesome.Even Ozil decided to turned up.I still think Wenger is going after he would not say that he wanted to stay.

  20. TOOAW

    May 27, 2017, 20:03 #101708

    @simon rose. You nailed it my friend. 2-1 was your prediction and 2-1 it was. Disappointing season yet we finished on a high.

  21. mbg

    May 27, 2017, 20:03 #101707

    Well done the heat and the weather, great performance. Any resignation yet ?

  22. TonyEvans

    May 27, 2017, 19:56 #101706

    What a fantastic performance. Thought Monreal and Mertesaker were exceptional, and Holding did very well too. What a great way to end the season.

  23. GoonerRon

    May 27, 2017, 19:56 #101705

    Yes mbg, Chelsea handled the heat brilliantly. NOT. Come on you Gunners!

  24. mbg

    May 27, 2017, 17:12 #101704

    Remember this and don't forget, Whatever the outcome whatever the score the Weasel wenger out the door, We want wenger out We want wenger out.

  25. mbg

    May 27, 2017, 14:16 #101702

    Do you think Chelsea won't be able to handle the heat ? They'll handle the heat a hell of a lot better than our pussies, and will have prepared a hell of a lot better too (i'd be surprised if we prepared at all)and of course you forgot (accidently on purpose no doubt)to factor in the biggest stumbling block for us of all, and will have the biggest affect on us, wenger. @no new contract, wenger out.

  26. mbg

    May 27, 2017, 13:57 #101701

    Wellbeck and the heat, lol, we're relying on the heat now ? do you AKB's ever give up ? if we're stuffed it'll be the fooking heat that was the cause of it, the heat will get the blame, You couldn't make it up. We want wenger out, we want wenger out.

  27. equalizer

    May 27, 2017, 11:52 #101698

    Ospina playing is purely down to an agreement that he would play in the cup competition when fit. On cup final day, this article is not only a complete waste of space, it's an insult to anyone with any form of intelligence. Ospina can handle the weather better, what age are you?

  28. jeff wright

    May 27, 2017, 11:50 #101697

    Wenger's crazy decision to play Ospina in the Champions League was hardly proven justified .I go along with the school of thought that Wenger is putting in place excuses to try to cover for failure if as most expect he losses against Chelsea today. What I want to know is where is Wally Walcott. Keytone Kos has of course ducked out and Mustafi has an headache apparently. AKB is familiar with that ,his wife always has one! No wonder he is so angry and frustrated all the time and always resorting to silly school boy type sexual comments about others on here.Anyway, enough of him I don't want to hi-jack this comedy sketch to talk about that clown. Danny Welbeck come on down this is your showpiece moment is rather funny given his record on scoring goals. There is a chance today though for him to become a legend in his own boots .Will he grasp the opportunity that fate has tossed to him though is the question. I wouldn't bet on it.

  29. Highbury Boy

    May 27, 2017, 11:17 #101696

    I have never seen such a daft justification of a daft selection! I don't think even Wenger would come out with saying he was playing Ospina ahead of Cech because of the heat at the 530 ko. A precedent was set with playing Flappy in his last game for us and that almost backfired when he dashed out of his goal to the touchline a few minutes from the end of the Final. The only way this team avoided ending up mid table were the goals and assists from Sanchez and the saves from Cech. He is a far better goalie and his experience behind a back 5 who have never played together would have been vital. Chelsea players know how good Cech is and by playing our reserve goalie ,who hardly distinguished himself in his Bayern outings , hands them a psychological advantage before they step on the pitch. Add into the mixture a slow BFG who hasn't played for a year, a rookie defender with a handful of games, a left back in the middle , a central midfielder/winger having a belated go at wing back and probably a right back playing a left wing back and it's a recipe for disaster. A good experienced gk would have had his work cut out to save us. Simon,the heat is on Wenger and for good reason. Perhaps he will rest Sanchez so that the team can see what it will be like next season without him? He did rest Arshavin in a Cup Final for not dissimilar reasons. Perhaps the heat has got to Wenger?

  30. jjetplane

    May 27, 2017, 11:15 #101695

    Simon Perry/Richard Rose is rallying the troops while blaming everything on those BITCHING fans who really need to get behind the team which the BITCHING fans would if there was a team to get behind. Nice to know Danny is still playing football but whatever happened to the Giroud/Perez that was gonna outscore Harry and Deli? Great post highbury mysteries and all that. Today's match will be decided by Fabregas.

  31. Seven Kings Gooner1

    May 27, 2017, 10:15 #101693

    Simon: Wenger has picked Ospina because it gives him a dog to kick when he gets beat today. Graham Taylor put in a rookie goalkeeper once for Watford in a FA Cup semi final against the Spuds. The press will highlight the keepers errors so it takes the pressure off AW and at the board meeting he will be able to say he promised Ospina he would play if fit - so honourable Arsene gets another two years. Simon - "Ospina might handle the heat better" he might handle the heat better but the problem is he is only 5 feet tall FFS!!! Give me strength.

  32. Gare Kekeke

    Feb 22, 2013, 18:49 #32470

    @ SilverGooner; believe it or not mate, there were Arsenal fans who thought we would beat Bayern Munich (I spoke to a friend outside Southampton just before the game there on New Year’s Day and be thought we would win). my guess is that it was based on blind faith to Wenger and the current squad and not any valid tactical reason. Funny how none of them have come up with a logical reason (although the same can be said for Wenger critics like us, but I have already given my opinion on this article) why they played us off the park, particularly in the first half during that first leg. But the same can be said for every one of our defeats. All we get is ‘Arsene knows’. I respect them for their passion of all things The Arsenal but that’s it. Nothing else.

  33. SilverGooner

    Feb 22, 2013, 14:09 #32436

    Thought I would post this having read a couple of Wenger's pre-Villa comments. Firstly "Stats show we have the quality". Really? League-wise, the only stat I am interested in is the table - and right now we are a staggering 21 points off the top! Secondly, "we must not become destabilised by people who have strong opinions after one game". After one game?!! Wenger's comments beggar belief and smack of a man who is either seriously duluded or is treating Arsenal fans like fools. More worringly he says the club "must not change direction". I decided to stop giving the club any of my hard earned cash earlier this season and Wenger and the hapless board will not "change direction" until others do the same! Finally, is there an Arsenal fan anywhere that thought we would get the better of Bayern? Probably not - and that's because their stats show they do have quality. Unlike us!

  34. chris dee

    Feb 22, 2013, 14:07 #32434

    Richard Dickerson. Because we are not Spurs.Because we are Arsenal. We are living in a different football world than the 60's. I agree it would be great to take time and 'build' a side,but clubs and fans today are living in 24/7 pressure situation thanks to Sky and other media outlets. The 'big' clubs today are winning the majority of the trophies year after year and accumilating the best players,and this will continue despite all this Financial Fair play malarkey. We have to sink or swim with this situation. If we don't swim then within a few years we will become a red and white version of Spurs.

  35. tpm

    Feb 22, 2013, 12:38 #32418

    google isnt always ur friend richard. i was going to say well googled.

  36. Richard Dickerson

    Feb 22, 2013, 12:31 #32417

    Chris Dee, I bow to your greater knowledge re the 1966 FA Youth Cup winning team. My point was that we had some very talented young players coming through the Arsenal academy in the 60's. The four previously mentioned plus the likes of Jon Sammels, Eddie Kelly, Sammy Nelson, Peter Storey, etc. They went on to be key members of the 70/71 double winning squad. It proves the point it can take many years to create a successful team. Why is it the press boys rarely mention the fact that Spurs haven't won the top division league since 1961 - 53 years ago, yet we're told every day by some 'expert or other' how long since we last won a trophy!

  37. chris dee

    Feb 22, 2013, 10:25 #32405

    Richard Dickerson. There we have it. The perfect example of why Arsenal will continue to be also rans. A different set of circumstances in 1966? True, we had gone 13 yrs without a trophy not eight. So let's be happy with a team 'playing consistently in the Champions League'.An ideal Emirates fan for the board.They might as well remove the dates around the stadium now because they count for nothing now because playing 'consistently in the Champions League 'has filled our trophy cabinet these last eight years. It has also been extremely rare for the fans to heckle the players and the Blackburn defeat coming after the shambles of Bradford was an exception.What did you expect the fans to do.Say tut tut better luck next time chaps? Or are we being to harsh on these low paid lads who as we have seen time and time again are so loyal to the club,unlike these fickle fans who change their loyalties at the drop of a hat. Please note Charlie George,John Radford,Peter Simpson and Ray Kennedy were not in the 1966 Youth Cup winning team .

  38. Richard Dickerson

    Feb 21, 2013, 15:00 #32364

    Different set of circumstances in 1966 as we finished in 14th spot that year. Hardly the stuff on a team consistently playing Champions League. We then lost League Cup finals to Leeds & lowly Swindon (without being booed off) before we won the Fairs Cup in 69/70. In my opinion the greatest night in Arsenal's history. The youth team won the FA Youth Cup in 1966, spawning players Charlie George, John Radford, Peter Simpson & Ray Kennedy. They went on to form the backbone of the great double side of 70/71. Great memories of being at the Lane for the final game. No team ever improved by supporters heckling their every move, so leave your bruised ego's & abuse at home and give the players the encouragement they deserve.

  39. ATID

    Feb 21, 2013, 13:35 #32350

    tpm - back to your comment about bad language always having been part of the game. It doesn't bother me and never has but as you say it shouldn't be the norm in the Family Enclosure. However, it is worth pointing out that when I was in Block 26 for the Fulham game earlier this season the stewards did nothing about the foul mouthed AKBs and believe me are not talking about an isolated incident. They were in everyone's face for the whole game. So it would be good to see the stewards being consistent. Either let everyone rant and rave and generally get away with being obnoxious or chuck them all out AKB or AMG. Finally, I think it would be a mistake to assume that you can't have a good atmosphere without swearing. You only have to look at the Olympics last year or attend games in places like Seville.

  40. chris dee

    Feb 21, 2013, 13:06 #32348

    murphyr. No need to organise anything. 5 May 1966 home to Leeds -attendance 4554. The reason? We had gone 13 years without a trophy,the board with Dennis's dad Peter Hill Wood, at the helm were happy to let things drift and the fans just refused to accept mediocrity and a tipping point was reached.Two years later we won the Intercities (UEFA)Cup, Three years later we won the double.

  41. tpm

    Feb 21, 2013, 12:42 #32345

    yeah, because a current player would really come out in the media and not back his current manager when asked the question...are you really so naive? as for tradition of arsnel fans closing ranks, what is that since 97? you clearly have no idea what you were talking as if you did you would know that fans voiced protest against terry neill significantly for example

  42. Richard Dickerson

    Feb 21, 2013, 9:06 #32319

    Stop throwing your toys out of the pram and grow up Kevin. Your dissent is causing untold damage to Arsenal. Journalists can't believe their luck, you've opened the door and invited them to give AFC a real kicking, the like of which I haven't witnessed before in the UK. It's reassuring that protesting voices are removed from the Emirates. Who wants to sit near a squealing moaning 'so called' supporter all through a game. Arsenal supporters traditionally close ranks & stick together in bad times so if you can't contribute anything positive please stay in the pub all afternoon and drown your perceived sorrows! How can we expect the players to perform when their every move is critised. The team needs unified support like never before. I bet Spurs supporters can't believe their luck watching Arsenal dissenters wanting the club to implode. Jack Wilshere wants AW as his manager, I'm with you Jack....

  43. Deb

    Feb 21, 2013, 7:42 #32308

    Two things to say. I went to Brighton in the cup and the two blokes next to me smoked constantly and the stewards saw and did nothing so getting chucked out for voicing an opinion is more "legal" than smoking cigarettes in a no smoking ground, is it? And two, I watched the Bayern game on TV because I got £50 for my ticket which was too good a deal to refuse and, although I didn't fall asleep, I didn't show a flicker of emotion when we scored which says it all for me. Forty one years a passionate Gooner and it's finally been drained out of me. Thanks, Wenger.

  44. Ade

    Feb 21, 2013, 6:46 #32300

    Still lots of arm-chair critics.How about people venturing their opinion before a ball is kicked.

  45. Murphyr

    Feb 21, 2013, 0:14 #32296

    Here we go again...Firstly, the result does not lie. Bayern outplayed us for the overwhelming majority of the game. Pound for pound they are a superior side and look as if they are well drilled by a tactically astute manager. I did not go into this game with high hopes and so, yeah, this tempers the immediacy of any deep frustration over the fact that we lost. It’s just another example of just how far we are from being able to compete with the top clubs in Europe. If this result (amongst others) shows us anything it is that money can't explain everything about our plight. As people have pointed out Bayern's squad has been assembled at a far less cost and in the context of their average supporter paying 11-20 euros per home game to watch them. Yet we were outclassed at home. For those who are not prepared to countenance any suggestion that Wenger might need to be replaced how is it feasible that he can escape criticism for presiding over this time and again? I really don't enjoy hearing Gooners shout for the manager’s head and in an ideal world we really would be able to become the true 12th man and by sheer force of unified will spur the team to great things. Unfortunately, for me at least, Reality has an annoying habit of stepping in to drain my capacity for such a deluded sense of the power and control that we have as supporters. The Board obviously has a contemptuous attitude towards Arsenal supporters. They are not unique. That is the EPL era for you. It’s pervasive – FA, Premier League, Clubs, Media. Supporters are a mere colourful backdrop to the TV package that the game has become. Pay your money, buy the merchandise, cheer when you are told to, sit down when you are instructed to, don’t say that, don’t do that, you can’t go there, etc...and woe betide any fan who is not prepared to show deference to this image of the happy consumer. I am no Luddite and I don’t view the past through rose tinted specs. I don’t want to see the return of crumbling stadiums which were seen as good enough for the low class of species that football fans were supposed to be back in the days when I first started going to Highbury. However, I don’t accept that just because we now have cushioned seats to cradle our arses (at a grand a year it should be noted and with Stewards primed to make sure that your arse never leaves the chair for the duration of the game) that we should not show our dissatisfaction at years of underachievement. It seems to me that the biggest impact that supporters can have is to do something that punctures the media image of us as passive slaves to the corporate behemoth. This might be collectively showing your discontent at the game but, really, this just becomes media spin in the end – another inane talking point on the Match of the Day couch (“the supporters aren’t happy are they Alan”...). It seems to me that not turning up en masse would send the greatest message to the club and beyond that we are not prepared to go along with the direction of the club. I don’t mean staying at home. I mean turning up at the stadium but not taking our seats or something of that sort. Now who is dreaming? Logistically it would be virtually impossible to organise and forgets that not all Arsenal supporters share the same values and beliefs in life. We are not a radical Union (more’s the pity). Some people just care more than others or, more precisely, some people are prepared to be more active than others. Who can argue with that? It is, after all, only football. As such I would not hold much hope for what I am suggesting. It is perhaps far too idealistic to expect the sort of organisational discipline and unity of purpose for this to work no matter how much I genuinely believe that it would be a better option than odd supporters shouting at the game.

  46. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 20, 2013, 23:41 #32295

    Stevesam, good shout i've been saying something similar for god knows how long, to many yes men not up to the job.The problem is, if any coaches were brought in that were,it would have to be his way.

  47. Stevesam

    Feb 20, 2013, 22:16 #32294

    If you want an insight or an example of the poor quality and how far we have fallen under the AW regime look no further than the official club website and the section First Team Staff. How many top coaches or Internationals do you see on the list. How many have been living in the AW comfort zone for so long. Gerry Peyton is a prime example, is he the best goalkeeping coach we can appoint. He would certainly be top of my list for walking the short plank. I believe at Brentford, Chesney developed because he got the correct coaching, Peyton has a consistent record of producing dud keepers. Chesney has not progressed. He is now a Teflon keeper ‘ nothing sticks’. The only reason I believe that Peyton is still in a job is that he is a big time Yes man. If AW is to stay next season, the best thing he could do, sack the deadwood on the coaching staff, including, Banfield, Promo and Peyton and bring in young qualified coaches like Bergkamp, Keown and Lehmann who have a winning mentality and a desire to be the best. We all know it is not going to happen. Last night was expected, Saturday was not acceptable and harder to stomach, we should beat Blackburn with our Reserves, simple.

  48. Reginald

    Feb 20, 2013, 22:04 #32293

    Went to the game yesterday thought it was pretty good,two teams both trying to play good football.First game I have been to for 30 years.My brother and I used to go to Arsenal one week and Spurs the next back in the fifties myself following Arsenal and my brother a Spurs fan.The one thing I did notice was how loud and hostile the crowd was I can't say I much liked it compared to the old Highbury which could be loud but very sporting and the old Spurs crowd which my brother always thought was more like a cricket crowd which I thought a little quiet.It seemed strange the way the Germans were bobbing up and down as if they had been on the snaps all day,used to be such a controlled race of people.

  49. Moscow Gooner

    Feb 20, 2013, 21:39 #32292

    Let's face it we're soon going to need segregation at the Grove between the AKBs and the AMGs... And the way things are going the AKB contingent are going to fit nicely into what is now the away supporters section (when Wigan Athletic come to town)...

  50. al

    Feb 20, 2013, 21:24 #32291

    If finishing 4th is all we play for every season,and we rest players in the fa cup against blackburn why dont we rest the players in the champions league games and save them and concentrate on the league games coming up which are so "important" against spuds everton and villa. Is that our aim nowadays?

  51. JC

    Feb 20, 2013, 21:01 #32290

    As someone that sits in Block 101 and sits just a few seats away from the 7 people thrown out on Tuesday I can tell what actually happened. I and other fans that sit near them, have had to endure from 2 of these 'supporters' in particular, the highest amount of anti-support I have ever heard directed at the team the team, Wenger and the board, for a number of years now. Whilst all that sit in that area are upset and frustrated by our beloved clubs demise, we are more bored of having to come to football and listen to 2 people vent for literally 90 mins. Of course, these people are more than etitled to their opinions and for the most part no one says anything back. On Tuesday, someone did and asked them to stop. The abuse that he then received from almost all 7 of these men was appalling. They jumped all over him (not literally) and gave him a tirade of profanity and threat, for at least 2 minutes, to the point where everyone was now intimidated. I was shocked and disgusted. Couple this with 2 bottles being thrown down the stand hitting people on the way, that was the reason they were thrown out. Let me make this very clear again, those guys were thrown out for throwing bottles, hurling abuse and threatening behaviour to anyone brave enough to speak up to them and NOT for anti Wenger chanting. Anyone that says any different, didnt see it or hear to the extent I did.

  52. Robert Exley

    Feb 20, 2013, 20:47 #32289

    These stories of people being ejected for criticizing the regime are totally believable. I saw the same thing happen to someone on Saturday as a result of some grass with no accent calling the stewards in and taking offense at someone shouting 'Wenger Out' a bit too loudly. Presuming that racism, homophobia and swearing are taboo in the modern era at football grounds, why is an opinion on the manager? - what 'moral' standards is that upholding exactly? The Emirates Stadium's attitude to freedom of expression is worryingly similar to that of the country it's named after! The club want us to just clap and buy and look like some sort of crowd from Roy of the Rovers with a speech bubble along the lines of 'hard luck chaps, better luck next year!'

  53. tpm

    Feb 20, 2013, 20:33 #32288

    foul mouthed, be it akb or wob, so what? as long as its not in the family section. its football ffs, morons who want foul language banned are sanitising the game and create atmospheres like the emirates. i may not like swearing myself, but i have no issue with others doing it at the game, if i take my kids its at my own risk to foul language if im not in the family section. its part of the fabric of the game, always has been, and part of life on the terraces

  54. Wengerballs

    Feb 20, 2013, 19:39 #32285

    So perhaps the only hope is if we finish 6th then. Given that Kroenke and even Usmanov have categorically stated how much they like Wenger, it seems a slide down the table out of all Euro football is the only thing to depose him. Lady Nina is right, we are being run by a man with no passion for the game whatsoever (maybe Stan was at the game yesterday because he's in London to lay the line down with Wenger or sign-off on our next Manager?), so it seems there is no hope of change until the financial's start to get negatively affected. "Mr Kroenke, here is your morning portfolio report...sports portfolio...Arsenal shares are falling, revenue is dropping off and stadium attendance slightly down." Stan, "Ok, Sack Wenger now!".

  55. jjetplane

    Feb 20, 2013, 19:23 #32283

    On the ball as usual Kev. Jack is way too good for this nasty farce and there is no reason for him to be here. Walcott, on inflated money like his over pampered boss, will stay forever if he can because like Wenger all he wants is money and a Beckham-type life style where football is secondary. I do not think there is a club in the EPL with such a skewed vision of football as the this current corruption. Its people like you Kev who make goonerland a brighter place. God speed ya kid. And Mr Francis - back your gooners!

  56. exiled&dangerous

    Feb 20, 2013, 19:10 #32282

    "Who do you support" - lately when I get asked this question I have to say "Arsenal, but only the team on the pitch, not the club itself." The more comments I read on articles such as this, the more I think it could be time to form a fans' club, such as AFC Wimbledon or (the ridiculously-named) FC United of Manchester. Doubt that it could be called Royal Arsenal, how about Real Arsenal (as in a real football club for real fans). Red with white sleeves, yellow and blue away colours, Friday night non-league football for under a tenner...... if all of those who've given up their season tickets turned out to watch they'd be a very healthy non-league club and football might become enjoyable again.

  57. Jason

    Feb 20, 2013, 18:43 #32281

    Most topics have been covered, but in my opinion as regards the team, the most obvious issue is the defence and goalkeeper, It is awful, and championship level at best. Wenger has completely ignored it for years. Why on earth he didn't sign at least one defender in the summer is unbelieveable!!! My second point is, why do i still read people asking what was the point of leaving Highbury. The simple reason is, it brings in more revenue for the shareholders, simple as that.

  58. ATID

    Feb 20, 2013, 18:30 #32279

    I enjoyed the game last night if only to see a side as good as Bayern. Sang more than most, didn't boo and clapped our players off the pitch. Did get grief from a female supporter at the turnstiles going in who overheard my comment to a friend about us needing a new manager. She was fairly aggressive in saying I was wrong. I am in the lower tier so nowhere near Block 100 so can't comment on what happened there. However, we have our own fair share of aggro in our block not least from the season ticket holder who refuses to stand up when someone wants to go for a piss and then tried to get someone ejected from the stadium when they complained. As for language I sometimes take my children in the family enclosure but I won't sit at the back behind the goal anymore. Why? because of the foul mouthed AKBs who regularly sit there. So let's not have any set of fans claiming the moral high ground here.

  59. sjc1951

    Feb 20, 2013, 18:25 #32278

    There was lot more to the guys chucked out in block 100, it was not for the anti Wenger comments but a build up of problems through the season to other fans around them, the other fans complained to the stewards and 7 were evicted. Kevin you know who I am, email if you want facts and not fiction.

  60. ed enough....

    Feb 20, 2013, 18:03 #32277

    The sad thing about all things Arsenal now, is that we all expect and are not surprised when we lose to a team we once expected, and probably would have beaten a few years back...even more sad is he fact that very few seem to care about it...the team and the manager no longer have or earn our respect as professional footballing people and the people that run OUR club deserve even less....a very sad state of affairs.....

  61. Reg

    Feb 20, 2013, 18:00 #32276

    @ Tony. You seem to have taken a wrong turn. It's a forum for Arsenal fans and yeah most are going to be cockneys. It will be a little negative at the moment because guess what? It is negative! Feel free to lighten the mood though

  62. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 20, 2013, 17:38 #32275

    With fans being chucked out for having an opinion this clubs in a sad state,at least it shows the powers that be are well aware of the discontent,and sadly only prepared to deal with it one way.

  63. Peter Wain

    Feb 20, 2013, 17:01 #32273

    Totally outplayed by a much better team. Their defensive awareness was something Wenger should look at but he wont. Now a struggle to fill 4 spot with a very average squad full of no hopers. If we do a Wenger statement of not being far away and only needing 1 or 2 players. In reality we need at least 7 or 8 and have not got the money for them or the will. Elsewhwere in the club dunped out of the the youth cup at home 4-2 to big spending Everton and thrashed by Man City in the u21 league. The club is badly managed from head to toe and the best thing Kroenke can do is to announce he is selling his shares and that the board and management are all resigning. Of course this wont happen but expect more deterioration next season with little investment in the first team squad with no CL football as the excuse. Season tickets will in reality rise as they price freeze will be ofr less matches. Wiltshire to go at the end of next season and who can balame him.

  64. Jude Jolicoeur

    Feb 20, 2013, 16:48 #32272

    Jack is a joy to watch. Sadly, with the exception of the ground’s brilliant atmosphere, that’s where the positives end. Our captain was well roasted for ninety minutes, but I reckon it’d have been seven or eight if fatty Santos had been our left back. Yes, Rosicky played seventy minutes against Blackburn, but he provides so much more than Ramsey. The boy admittedly runs his socks off, but should that be the best compliment paid to a member of Arsenal's starting eleven? We need world-class players. In a difficult Champions League fixture, I'd prefer experienced quality over a player about whom all I hear is, “he never hides.” It's also frustrating that the majority of our corners are cut out by the first defender, yet unless Giroud is on the pitch, we’re serially inept at doing the same on their second goal (Ramsey happened to be the culprit on that occasion). I want to believe otherwise, but I’m not convinced that wasn’t our last Champions League home fixture for a while.

  65. Tony

    Feb 20, 2013, 16:47 #32271

    I can't stand the sort of self righteous gits Arsenal have following them these days.They all sound the same."Wenger out,Gazidas Out,Kronke Out,AKB's Out,Cry Cry,Weep Weep I want my mummy."I've been a season ticket holder for 160 years so everybody's got to listen to my loud cockney bore voice."Get a life and support the team you muppets and stop just repeating the same stuff everybody else comes out with if your going to say something give some balance not just negativity then those with some sense may listen.

  66. Utter Sorrow at a club in a major crisis

    Feb 20, 2013, 16:47 #32270

    totally sad at seeing what has become of our club, team, fan base tension & stadium atmosphere. used to love those european nights at highbury. who remembers 2-0 V Juventus ? that Berkhamp chip between 2 italian defenders. we dont even have a team that cant put up a real fight and get a draw against a top side. We ask Jack to create everything and then to put in the toughest tackles. I thought we were a total shambles last night we did not get near Bayern in quality. Our defence + keeper are a total horror show and this is why midfield cant release forward in comfortable way. We do not have a goalkeeper in the whole club. we have owners and management who lie to us about finances. it is all going backwards and going downhill fast and we have worst to come as we will highly likely finish 6th or 5th.

  67. G Lati, London

    Feb 20, 2013, 16:40 #32269

    There are so many things we can pick Wenger up on nowadays, its almost too easy. The players are clearly extremely fit and skillfull individuals. But team tactics and games plans are clearly non existent. The defence is a collective mess mainly due to lack of leadership and Wenger-imposed zonal marking. There are the yearly transfer saga issues, the salary issues (including the high earning players out on loan that we cant sell on). All too much really. A mess created by one man. Those that understand football, want a change. Those that don't like change, want him to stay. They are mostly the long term supporters, who haven’t played football themselves for about 30+ years. They are generally happy to turn up and watch the team lose. Well football is about competing and winning....were not even competing at the moment. But the sad thing is we have the capacity and infrastructure to be the best if we really want to. We have the best club stadium and the best training facilities in the country. The best location. The best fans and the best history of any club. Why go to all the lengths of a stadium move and not bother to try to fill it with trophies? It’s a sad waste of resources. David Moyes will be available in the summer...he would slip in to the role perfectly and bring a huge amount of tactical knowledge with him. He would also be cheaper then Wenger. So Wenger should be happy with that.

  68. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Feb 20, 2013, 16:10 #32268

    Keep up the good work Ed. With 80% support for a new manager on your website, you have the mandate.It's up to the Gooner to take the lead and help make the views of the majority heard.

  69. Nick

    Feb 20, 2013, 15:52 #32266

    Mike who sat in block100 did these people hit anyone ? were they abusive to fellow fans and or stewards ? if not what was their crime ? ive stood on the north bank and just about everywhere else in the ground at Highbury and NO one would EVER have been ejected for expressing a view however pointed it may have been, that was from the early sixties onwards , we now seem to have a suedo intelluctual support that has no idea what being a supporter really is, and im willing to bet it doesnt matter one jot to those said people whether we win or lose , because it doesnt REALLY hurt them , well these last 4 or 5 seasons have REALLY hurt me , its almost like being in an abusive marriage , where you keep telling yourself that your significant other doesnt really mean to hurt you and give them another chance, i take EVERY negative result personally , i cant help it i always have, i think weve taken enough of being lied to constantly over transfers or being led up the garden path, by the manager and the board , he rested players against Blackburn , to what purpose ? most of the team played like theyd never seen one another before last night , looked leggy and slow, WHY do we give such prority to a competition that it is blatantly obvious that we have NO chance of winning at the expense of one that we do have a chance in ?, WHY does Wenger never PERSONALLY watch our opposition ? WHERE is the coaching ? WHY are the team NOT drilled in defense untill its second nature, WHY are our substitutions so seemingly preplanned , and at times bizzare, i could go on , but its all been said before and will be again while we are still in the power of the triumverate of Wenger ,Gazidis, and Kronke , whose only concern is money ,we are charged gourmet prices for more often than not dirty dicks greasy spoon fare .

  70. Rob

    Feb 20, 2013, 15:49 #32265

    Probably the worse aspect for me about last night (sitting at home after giving up my season ticket after 22 years) was my complete lack of "giving a ****!!" To lose that passion and emotion I used to feel, is down to every summer the team getting slightly worse, the players being bought in getting worse each season until where we end up now with watching Gervinho instead of Henry. You don't have to be a football expert to know that apart from Wilshere and maybe Corzola not 1 player could get close to being in the squad of the Invincibles. Yet Wenger still trots out the tired old line of "belief" in the team, how good they are in training etc. Whether he believes that or whether he is just toeing the party line so he carries on picking up the crazy salary he justifies for himself, but does not believe in breaking the players wage structure for, I don't care anymore. He not only has got to go now, but the board have to realize that unless something drastic changes, we are in real danger of becoming an top ten side playing to a half empty stadium. Yes Wenger out as he has been given enough chances to prove he can turn things around, only to fall short each time, but get some new blood in, be daring, spend some money and then maybe the most important thing for any fan will return and that's optimism.

  71. Tony Evans

    Feb 20, 2013, 15:30 #32264

    Red Member - you answered your own question about why fans are still going to the Emirates now to watch this garbage. You were there in 1986 for the Dons last match and knew they were rubbish then but still went. Mind you in your defence you weren't forking out a kings ransom back then and I do agree with what you are saying about the situation now - I would love it if the ground was half empty for the next home match and two fingers were being metaphorically raised to the powers that be at Arsenal. As my mate said to me earlier what has happened to the club we grew up with?

  72. Rossco

    Feb 20, 2013, 15:29 #32263

    I'm a Clock end upper season ticket holder and was at the game last night. We were totally outplayed, they were sharper, more decisive and looked a class above. Make no mistake we have drastically slipped behind the games best. We have consistently failed every major challenge put against us this season across all competitions. Unfortunately the situation we're in will continue again and again if the people running the club (Stan, Wenger and Gazidis) still make their money. The ONLY option we have as fans to effect change is to hit them in the pocket by not renewing. I hat to walk away but unless we vote with our feet this slow death will continue for a few years yet at which point we may slip too far behind to recover!

  73. CanadaGooner

    Feb 20, 2013, 15:23 #32262

    Kev, we've all been to football matches and a sober football fan at 7mins to the end of the game is usually hard to find (even those that havent consumed alcohol are usually either consumed with rage or joy - both equally intoxicating). I have witnesses a panic situation at a couple of matches in my years following football and I can tell you that the thought of possibly being trampled isnt fun! SO, PLEASE CUT OUT ALL THIS NONSENSE about protesting at the games as we really do not want violence and chaos to add to the current crappy football we have to put up with. Go to the emirates and protest on a weekday or a weekend when we're not playing (if you want), or just stay away from the games in protest (as a few folks have already suggested): YOU DONT LIKE IT, DONT GO AND WATCH IT. Nobody is happy with what's going on at arsenal right now, but for those who have a LIFE, we find other things to do. Costs me thousands of pounds each time I fly home to watch arsenal 9and I catch at least 8 games every season), some we play well; other's we're totally rubbish; life goes on! If we cant beat Bradford or Blackburn, how/why would we be able to beat Bayern? I'm sure we'll finish 4th in the league and have to like through this next season as well. Nothing will change till Wenger leaves; and after he's left, thing will be worse for a while, but the club will regain some composure (hopefully after Gazidis and the others have been cleared out too!). Wont happen overnight though.

  74. wine boy

    Feb 20, 2013, 15:00 #32261

    Wenger, in the name of God ...GO

  75. KWB

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:55 #32260

    I was in the row in front of the two who were chucked out and it was not because they were shouting Wenger out it was due to being overly abusive to everyone around them. Most people do not have a problem with swearing etc but there were people with families there and every other word out of their mouths was c**t. I for one hope both of them are banned as everyone sitting near the these two people is sick to death of the pair of them.

  76. James

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:55 #32259

    Four years ago in the CL we were humiliated by Man Utd at home.4 years later history repeated itself.Totally outplayed by a much superior team.Those 4 years have been wasted.We have not improved one bit.Yet our manager is paid £7.5m a year.It truly was men against boys.Bayern were superior in every department.When the draw was made i thought we would lose both ties but last nights performance was awful we were never in the game.With the exception of Jack the players should be ashamed. Podolski other than his goal showed you why Bayern booted him out.We are miles behind the super clubs of Europe.In fact when it comes to Europe we are championship level.Wenger can bang on about 16 years in a row in the CL but what is the point other than finacial to get beaten every time we draw the first decent team we meet.

  77. npaty3000

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:52 #32258

    I agree with the groundhod day comments. I've all but stopped participating in an Arsenal group chat with some other fans because it's the same conversation over and over - Wenger has to go, the board is foolish for not realizing that the club can't hold onto its global fan base (and the resulting commercial revenues) without WINNING, my under-14 team had a better coached back line, bla , bla , bla...I also couldn't get angry as I watched us get outclassed by a team that should be our equal in Europe - new stadium, profitable, simialr wage bill and no petrodollars. At least Jack continues to impress and his post-match interview showed that he has more heart in his little finger than the rest of the organization combined.

  78. LJB

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:44 #32257

    Tony,are you taking the mick? Best side in the 2nd half? Bayern fans pathetic? If this is not a mickeytake, the pathetic one is YOU.Its called "passion",something Arsenal fans have had drummed out of them by this current regime.The Emirates is all about being quiet to let Wengers babies concentrate on passing backwards,conceding stupid goals and missing chances my cat could score. It is a Stadium lacking in any sort of atmosphere;i've seen livelier WI meetings.Mike,18 yrs with a ST is not a "New Age" supporter as you so patronisingly assert.Fans have no choice now but to boycott the spacebowl and NOT RENEW THEIR ST if they are not happy ,as the club seems determined to prevent peoples basic right to frre speech.BTW,where is Gazidis? Last time i saw him was when he was blowing his own trumpet about renewing the Emirates deal.However, he didn't mention that from 2015,the club get a 30% reduction in the deal each season we don't get top 4 football.The club kept VERY quiet about that didn't they? Not such a good deal after all.

  79. johnnyhawleyloovinggooner

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:43 #32256

    well beaten by a better team. lack of investment and again a very poor back end performance,(out of third gear,JoeS asked,well maybe not even out of second.) our keeper appears after a promising start as bad /unlucky as our former Spanish one ,and no one else seemed to know what the were doing at the back.however what really annoys me are the newspapers TV, and blogs.(it is a bit like Keith and Mick in the Stones :they can slag each other off but get upset if anyone else does)we fans can complain on Arsenal blogs etc about Aw and the board but they can all sod off.

  80. We sold van persie

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:41 #32255

    So mike . You think cos you've supported the team longer your opinion matters more. What a load of bolloxs. I hated supporters like you when I was 12 and started going on my own as a kid in 1980. A 6 year old can see wenger is finished give it a rest.

  81. GoonerMK

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:30 #32253

    The club we all knew and loved no longer exists. Neither is there any chance of it returning. It has become just another form of Americanised entertainment. Real Arsenal supporters have been mugged big time. They do not want fans, they want customers. Forget the football, Kroenke is interested in nothing more than a return on investment. That is Wenger's real success for which he is handsomely rewarded.

  82. Tony Evans

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:27 #32252

    My support is hanging by a thread - I showed no emotion at all last night during the match and at one stage my wife looked in to see if I had gone to sleep in front of the TV! I might as well have done. I really believe that if Wenger is offered any sort of contract extension, that will be it for me and I will turn my back on football for good. I keep telling myself that Wenger will be gone soon, but even with him as delusional as he is now, I can see still him spouting his nonsense in 2017 - telling everyone that his team is his best ever! Forty three years a Gooner and I never thought it might come to this.

  83. Danish Gooner

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:26 #32251

    What Munich did to us on a large scale Blackburn did on a minor scale,when you cant cut it against The Rovers you certainly cant cut it against Munich it is as simple as that,there are no quick cure.The Players are not good enough,Wenger is the worst tactician i have ever witnessed at a top level club bar Harry Redknapp.Wenger have totally destroyed the clubs chances of winning silverware for the next many seasons.Usmanov ought to take awrecking ball to this circus,these players,owner,ceo and manager ought to be swept away in a Tsunami of malcontent.

  84. Gare Kekeke

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:19 #32250

    Full credit to Bayern Munchen for the win. Again I applauded them off the pitch along with many Gooners who stayed behind. During the first half, I actually found them a joy to watch. I said to my neighbours in Block 12 if this Bayern Munchen pre-Guardiola, what will they be like when he takes over in the summer? They are my tip to win the trophy at Wembley in May and I sincerely hope they do. I also said to my neighbours during the game it was like us vs. Man Utd in the European Cup 2009 all over again. And that was brutal to watch from our perspective. So where did we fail? As usual, rubbish defending (do we really have world-class defenders as one regular poster claimed last summer?), Arteta badly exposed as a DM again, no midfield and Walcott fluffing his lines as central striker in a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 system. In my view he is only effective as a striker alongside a big target man (e.g. Giroud) or a deep-lying striker (e.g. Bergkamp). Wilshire as per usual tried hard but in vain. Interesting that the Wilshire song was sung when others around me were all slagging off Vermaelen. A subtle message that our Jack should be captain? Also it was interesting that all of Bayern’s goals came from their right flank. Did Heynckes target Vermaelen as a weak link? Judging by their goals then yes. But no doubt the Wenger apologists will come up with all manner of reasons why we were second best. I’ve always said that a ‘Wenger out’ chant inside the stadium during games can’t happen because of the repercussions that follow and the two fans being ejected for it as well as others being lamped for it in the past is why it can’t happen. But I don’t agree with staying silent and accepting it either. Also interesting that Kronke was at the game as well Usmanov (so too was the Germany coach Joachim Loew). I jokingly said to pals I hope they were discussing a deal that would see Kronke eventually bugger off and Usmanov becoming the majority shareholder. But hey, it’s a pipe dream and I forgot that Kronke and the other board members are all brilliant according to the Wenger apologists. This defeat has proved yet again why there is no point of us being in the European Cup under Wenger and this current board. We can’t compete, we’re only in it for the lucrative financial rewards and boasting to the likes of Tottenham & Everton that we are in it and they are not. Still, we’ll pay less for our season tickets in the summer, unless Gazidis comes up with a plan that sees us pay full price especially if we don’t finish in the top four. After watching the highlights, I also watched an edition of Sky Sports’ “Football’s Greatest Managers” which featured my all-time favourite manager Bob Paisley. If you haven’t seen it, catch it if you can. A truly great manager who constantly built & re-built successful teams, was not afraid of paying big money for top class players to improve his team of winners, scouted the opposition for weaknesses and has a record in Europe that is envy of every manager (including Ferguson). The fact that he still holds the record for most European Cup wins as manager (three in case you’re wondering), a record that has stood since Liverpool’s 1981 triumph against Real Madrid in Paris, tells you everything about him. Roll on Aston Villa on Saturday. Up The Arsenal!

  85. Bard

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:12 #32249

    Excellent post Kev. Struggling to get my head around the idea of fans being ejected for voicing their opinions. As for the game. Agree with the post that said Bayern didn't get out of 3rd gear. We gifted them the first 2 goals and that was it game over. We never looked competitive Jack apart. However its February and we always fall apart around February as the paper thin squad run out of steam. Its terminal and someone needs to put Wenger out of his misery.

  86. geogooner90

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:10 #32248

    Great article, summed up perfectly when you make the point at not even being that annoyed when Bayern scored, it was only a matter of time wasn't it? My brother, for all his sins, is a Chelsea fan and he made more noise when Arsenal scored than I did. He really wanted us show some fight and spirit, I knew that we wouldn't be able to sustain it when we did. I keep going over the current situation in my head. I appreciate Wenger, and kind of want him to stay, it's all I know (i'm 22). But, at the same time, there has to be a change, but who would fit the bill? Would the board change anyway? There are BIG issues at this club now, and never before has fan unrest been so high. There could well be further, bigger troubles ahead...

  87. smithy

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:01 #32247

    Just heard tom watt on talksport.I like tom and think he is a true supporter of arsenal,but I can't agree with his views.He is blindly pro wenger and maintaining the status quo-no big spend,clear out or change of approach.Apparently we owe it to wenger,and he needs more time.Usiminov and dean are not the answer either as Watt says they would be destructive to the club.I think anyone who continues to bang his head against a brickwall and keeps looking for a beautiful view is patently mad.Either wenger goes or the board,tom watt needs to realise that his glasses are rose tinted and arsene doesn't have a halo!

  88. Reg

    Feb 20, 2013, 14:01 #32246

    Wenger is so poor it really is painful. Can't motivate the team against lesser sides and can't organise the side against better sides. The biggest difference last night was that Bayern had shape and organisation everywhere. Bayern weren't great but ultra organised. We look like a kids side in comparison with no one really sure of what anyone else is going to do and that is an awful platform for the players. Nothing to do with money, nothing to do absentee owners, nothing to do with oily little ****s like Gazidis. 100% to do with a clueless manager who cannot organise a team anymore.

  89. jb

    Feb 20, 2013, 13:48 #32245

    Looking at both teams last night only Jack would get in the Bayern first xi. I think that says it all!

  90. Green Hut

    Feb 20, 2013, 13:38 #32244

    An Arsenal fan rang Ian Wright's Absolute Radio phone-in show on Saturday night to talk about the Blackburn debacle. After talking about the awfulness of the performance and result for a couple of minutes he was asked if he felt Wenger should stay or go. His answer was, and I quote, 'I want him to stay and turn it around, I can't see life after Wenger, I don't know what is next'. And there are many, many like him, terrified of change despite the fact that everything they see is crying out for it. This death of a thousand cuts has some way to travel yet.

  91. Sarge

    Feb 20, 2013, 13:27 #32243

    Personally I think the club is faced with an extreme dilemma. As Kev rightly points out, the Champions League is OGL's ultimate professional goal. The board would never sanction the resources to achieve it anyway - so that's a busted flush for him. He won't walk away as that is an admission of failure and he has too much pride to admit to that - even if it is detrimental to the team's progress. A septugenarian board that doesn't have the appetite, energy and vision to make this club a European elite club on all levels. A CEO and management team whose sole objective is to get the tills ringing all over the globe and sell this tarnished and failing brand globally - good luck with that. The players are in such a comfort zone in their carefully constructed bubble created by the manager it must feel like Shangri-las. How can you honestly perform consistently or care enough if the manager continues to shield you from reality? And finally - a remote hands-off owner with no real concept of competitive sport who wants to keep milking his European cow as long as it keeps giving. Unless new, sizeable and sustainable commercial revenues are achieved, continuing to sell off our valuable playing assets is the only option to maintain the financial status quo. It becomes ever more apparent that the club lacked / lacks a strategy to take the club forward to achieve its stated pre-move aims after the move to the Emirates. All the ingredients are in lace for a spiralling decline that is starting to pick up speed. And the only people who can see it are the fans (well some anyway) and now the media. Who is strong and astute enough to pull us out of this nosedive before we go the way of Liverpool? I'm struggling to identify any real positives at the moment except for the odd player - well one - Jack who really epitomises the spirit of yesteryear.

  92. chris dee

    Feb 20, 2013, 13:27 #32242

    Just like to convey an old English saying to Arsene. Don't piss on my leg and say it's raining. So I hope Arsene stops insulting us by saying the players have 'mental strength',stops ridiculing us by saying the players have 'big belief',stops mocking us by saying we have 'great players' and stops pretending that he 'beleives' in these players. He may think so,but I can assure Arsene we are not stupid or gullible,and the constant drip drip of this patent garbage fools no-one. And can someone tell him that you can only become a good 'offensive' team if you have a rock solid defence,just ask someone at an up and coming team in Spain called Barcelona. There was no surprise against Blackburn,just anger. There was no surprise against Bayern,just resignation. Just to recap what Van Persie said about United 'I am surrounded by champions,the training is fantastic,I have put on weight,I feel fitter and I can play 2 games a week no problem' or what Cesc said about Barca 'the hardest part is learning Barca's defensive pattern because at Arsenal I could do anything I wanted'

  93. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 20, 2013, 13:25 #32241

    No surprise there, obviously word has come down from the top that fans aren't allowed an opinion,I wonder would the same happen if the suits in the private boxes started singing it ? We were given a lesson alright was anyone really surprised, really ? did anyone actually think we were going to beat Bayern ? we hoped yes we hoped for a better display than we've seen in the other cup games against Bradford and Blackburn,maybe they were going to show us what their really made of,but with a liability of a keeper and a dodgy defence,and with maybe one player in our side in the same class not very likely,and even he has been taking lessons in spin, coming out with the tired old mantra after the match, we will learn from this,yea of course we will there's as much chance of that happening as doing the quadruple next season.Your right Kev we're not equipped to win this competition and haven't been for a long long time ,hell we're not even equipped to win the CO, FA,cup or the prem ? Well it looks like ogl is going to have put his obsession with his holy grail on the back burner for another season unless we go out there and show super mental strength,with super motivation, and put in a super super performance with our super super quality players, and score three or four goals without reply, well we'll be told we can anyway.So the DDS made an appearance last night i doubt if he witnessed any of the fights and scuffles going on or was told about them,fights and scuffles may i add that have been going on long before the Editors last article.Good piece Kev.

  94. Red Member

    Feb 20, 2013, 13:24 #32240

    why are people still throwing away their money to attend such rubbish? everyone knew we were going to lose last night. There will only be change if people stop going. Back in 1986 I attended the last match under Don Howe. There were 17,000 in attendance. Whilst 60,000 turn up week in week out then nothing will change

  95. 600NER PETE

    Feb 20, 2013, 13:19 #32239

    Can someone wake me up when something worth listening to happens at Arsenal (Arsene resigning would be a good one). I'm getting so fed up with the same thing happening over and over again that I'm just getting completely bored with the whole thing. I can't remember when I last got really excited about a match or any news to do with the club.A club that I have lived and breathed and supported for nearly 45 years! When is this nonsense going to end so that I can at last get an important part of my life back again? During the last few years my interest has been gradually whittled down to practically nothing. I would like those feelings to return one day. Over to you Arsene!

  96. ATID

    Feb 20, 2013, 13:12 #32237

    A vintage editorial. Well said.

  97. DECLAN BURKE

    Feb 20, 2013, 13:09 #32236

    Excellent summary of our plight. Those who object to those shouting 'WENGER OUT' may as well give up trying to silence those fans who have snapped, because the number in this category is increasing by the week. The reality is that ARSENAL F.C. under Wenger and the present board will never return the club to it's rightful place, sadly the bitterness and depression hanging over the club is increasing and it is not going to be turned around by anybody either in the boardroom or on the management team. ARSENAL FOOTBALL CLUB is now at a crossroads, It is time for a major change at the club-not in policy-but in personnel in the board room and in WENGER's reign, it saddens me to see Wenger become a target for serious verbal abuse but who is he to blame ? He only has to look into his own mirror.

  98. don froth

    Feb 20, 2013, 13:06 #32235

    We had the piss taken out of us in all honesty, i thought Podolski may have had a point to prove but he just jogged about and Tommy V as captain sums the whole situation up! He has been dire most of the season, he either gives the ball away cheaply or gets us in trouble by conceding pointless free kicks, he is unwatchable when Wenger plays him at left back......we are in for a long slow death!Wenger out!

  99. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 20, 2013, 13:05 #32234

    Can I take digress with the Bayern love in? Yes they scored a good goal early, and were gifted a second, but looked distinctly average when being attacked down either flank and scored a somewhat fortunate third. Turning point of the game undoubtedly Giroud's miss at 1-2. But then the miss was OGL's pigeons coming home to roost......selling quality and replacing it with Poundland goods. STILL no criticism of him from his meeedja pals, who surely who be baying for his blood by now if he was at any other club. Do you know, 10/15 even 30 years ago (remember Spartak Moscow and the 2-5 humiliation?) I would be in a state of deep depression for days after such a result as last night. Now, I really don't care that much. And before anyone says "go and support Chelsea" I been an Arsenal fan since 1972 and have just about had enough of this man ruining our great club. Note: OUR club, not his.

  100. Alan Sunderland's Perm

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:50 #32233

    The most annoying thing I read on this site is 'If you don't like it stop going' I don't want to stop going Arsenal are part of my life! D Don't worry with a bit of luck we can still scrape fourth and Wenger and the shareholders can have a open top bus parade assuming it doesn't cost too much........

  101. BW

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:50 #32232

    Your title says it all, Kevin. Reports on the radio during my morning commute were saying how the back pages were filled with Arsenal's demise, but what did anyone with half an ounce of football knowledge expect? In some respects, whilst I support the author here in his quest for change, this game isn't the best example. Bayern are 15-points clear at the top of the Bundesliga and we're languishing out of CL places. The better team won.

  102. Dan h

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:48 #32231

    They were on a totally different level to us.The subs Bayern put on would all be starters for us but we have similar wages bills.Strength in depth competition for places & obviously very good players in a system that is well coached....men against boys.From what i could see on t.v they worked so much harder than us pressing we played a slightly bit better after going 2 down again not for the first time it was lost & the pressure was off.Spoke to a friend today that has 3 season tickets he is not renewing had enough of the set up over there part OGL but also the board many years ST holder i should add.I told him to expect a letter signed by Peter Hill-Wood saying sorry you are not renewing but thanks for showing an interest in our affairs.They may not care should a fair amount of fans not renew i would.Some say on here be careful what you wish for the club would do well to heed those words.

  103. Ealing Gooner

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:47 #32230

    "Groundhog day season" is an apt phrase, but with one difference, in the film, Bill Murray eventually realised that doing the same thing meant no escape, therefore he started do things differently. Wenger naively continues to think he can conquer the best teams in Europe by playing the same way as he does v Wigan, Norwich etc. Even Ferguson (no great tactician) recognises the need to keep things tight sometimes in Europe. When we reached the final in 2006, we didn't concede a single away goal in the knockout stage. 0-0 at home in the first leg is no disaster, but we repeated the dreadful start v Man Utd in 2009. Yes, Bayern are a superior team and one of the favourites to lift the cup, but Bradford and Blackburn have both shown us that inferior teams can overcome the odds with a bit of organisation and a solid game plan, two qualities which seem to have left the building with the last of the Invincibles. Right now, I couldn't care less if we finish 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th, things will be the same next season or any other season until there are changes in the boardroom and/or the manager's office. A point also about "resting" players on Saturday, Ronaldo scored a hat trick a few days before the Man Utd game, Messi scored 2 for Barca a few days before their game tonight, no sign of those two players being rested (even though La Liga has virtually been decided already). One last point, maybe those fans were ejected for daring to get in the way of those people who must leave early to avoid queueing for the tube with the rest of us plebs!

  104. Croker

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:44 #32229

    Can someone please clear this up on these pages - Are we witnessing a downward spiral because (1) The manager is too stubborn to change his ways and ask for help from a Keown or Vierra or A.N.Other; or (2) The manager has to adhere to constraints imposed by an owner who knows nothing about managing a successful football club; or (3) a combination of both (1) and (2)? I don't want to see or read my fellow Gooners falling out with each other or hear the side being booed but surely we all agree things need to change.

  105. Tony Evans

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:43 #32228

    What a sad state of affairs that fans now face being frog-marched out of the ground just for expressing an opinion to which they are fully entitled to. As for the game I sat and watched it at home, not really caring one way or the other about the result. The whole game just seemed a complete waste of time and the outcome could have been predicted by any one, bar those idiots that incredibly still support Wenger. So Wenger through away a possible FA Cup quarter final for that did he? How can any Arsenal fan fail to see how awful we have become - for a club that promised to be competing with the best! It is not the fact that we are losing that really frustrate me, it is the how and why we are losing that leaves so many of us with no hope for the future. Arsenal are now a 'soft touch' and have been for a long while now as Wenger continues to indulge himself and ignore players that might bring some much needed character, experience and physical toughness back to the team. I see no hope for the future and haven't done for a while now and without a change of manager that will remain the case. Any real fan can put up with losing but if hope for better times ahead at your particular club has gone, then you are left with nothing.

  106. Angry & Frustrated

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:42 #32227

    You say no surprises Kevin, but I for one was surprised we only conceded three! Prior to kick off I would have settled for four, such is my lack of faith in our defensive unit. We all knew this game was academic, and that we would be taught a footballing lesson by Bayern, and we have the away leg humiliation yet to come! Except Wenger of course, who threw away a more realistic chance in the FA Cup, so that we could once again feed of the scraps from the top table and in the process continue our trophy drought. Their wage bill is smaller than ours, and the club don't charge a kings ransom for their own supporters to watch their vastly superior team! As for fans being thrown out for expressing their opinion, which does not fit in with "Brand Arsene Wenger" I despair at what our once great club has become. We are now no more than a dictatorship, run by a deluded despot, and the club does indeed now begin to resemble the North Korean state where the few in control, roll around in luxury and money at our emotional and financial expense.

  107. Cloggs

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:40 #32226

    Mike, So what did they do? singing "wenger out" is abusive and violent? If you go to a footy match expect emotion, both positive and negative. Of course the line should be drawn to anything violent or abusive. We've been going thru this ordeal for 8 years now so you can expect some negative vocal outburst. I would say; Stay away if you can't stand the heat. At the clock-end somebody in front of me started the "one arsene wenger" in the match vs City and the large part of the block answered it with "who who who?", quite funny, it's called matchday experience (or, sadly, whats left of it these dayts) (btw, There's a family enclosure for the kids)

  108. Wongman

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:27 #32225

    So some Arsenal players think the tie is not over. Assuming they can get to the qf,Idont thinkthey can win the cl not with an error prone defence.I hope BM apply the coup de grace and save the fans the pain of losing time and again in the big games. If Wenger doesn't change philosophy for next season,assuming he is still boss,then he will continue in the same way.Then Arsenal will be better off with a new guy who will make significant changes with the aim of scoring asap and winning gets top priority.

  109. billthe red

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:26 #32224

    I have sent a letter to Ivan the terrible (second one) and hope for some sort of response(no spin please).I have questioned the clubs desires and informed him this is my last as a season ticket holder as I no longer believe why we moved from our beloved Highbury.Van Perstrings desire to win trophies looks like being justified and selling him to our so called rivals just stinks and I think someone should be held accountable.He is the third captain to leave in the last few years and if Jack is going to be held up to the highest bidder then we might as well play at the Olympic Hockey stadium as the crowd we would attract amounts to next to nothing.Last nights result was if we are honest surprised no one oh and I see Blackburn got beat last night.

  110. Gman

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:18 #32223

    Walcott was way out of his depth as a central striker last night and the switch for Giroud should have happened at half time at the latest. Wenger made his usual changes on the obligatory 70th minute. Apart from Wilshire the squad were not good enough and Wenger is no great motivator. Again defenders were shocking and I can’t believe it’s down to Steve Bould; by all accounts Wenger is an autocrat and wants to do everything himself, including coaching defenders. A strong team winning against Blackburn would have certainly bolstered confidence. It’s a totally pointless exercise to be in the CL if you have no chance of winning it. We scrape in to it then it’s the same old story, come unstuck after the group stages. Our business model is to invest the absolute minimum each season in order to grab some of that Champions League loot. Players with potential on cheap contracts are developed, and then sold to more ambitious clubs. Fans are seduced by the glam of the CL and get fleeced along the way and their loyalty means that the owners can count on them never walking away. Kroenke and his cohorts reap the dividends and then Wenger says it’s been a successful year coming 4th in the PL. The money rolls in, Gazidis tells us there’s 100 M in the managers war chest, and it’s Ground Hog day. I feel sorry for Wenger, a once great manager disintegrating before our very eyes. He’s like an injured animal that should be put out of his misery. He must have some sort of confidentially gagging clause in his contract because I just can’t believe him anymore; it’s as if he’s wheeled out by Kroenke and Gazidis as a mouth piece to take a deluge of abuse from the press for his pay masters. Please, please do yourself and us a favour and resign at the end of the season, for your health and the good of the club. Perhaps then the board might wake up and realise the club is in the business of winning trophies and not just making up the numbers in competitions, whilst making handsome profits for the owners. Don’t they realise success brings in the money, wake up or sell up and f—k off back to the USA.

  111. John Viner

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:13 #32222

    Very well said, sir. I'm appalled that fans who bravely sang out and voiced their frustrations were silenced like that. I'm a Clock End Upper Season ticket holder and chanted "We want Kroenke out" at the end, and on the stairs to the exit. No-one joined in, but one fan did half-heartedly chant "And Wenger", to no response. The only 'leader' I could see out on the pitch was our Jack, to be honest.

  112. Pat O'Cake

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:07 #32221

    Similarly, I sat there last night watching the inevitable unfold barely raising an eyebrow at what I was seeing. We got what we deserved - I reckon if Bayern needed to win by 4 or 5 goals, they would have quite easily managed it. The club is torn apart but worryingly still has a long way to fall before it gets better.

  113. Tony

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:02 #32220

    Arsene said we were "a beet nervous" in the first half which pretty much summed it up.I thought we were too gung ho after pulling a goal back and unfortunately can no longer play that away against the very best.Man U and Chelsea have shown that the only way English teams can win in Europe is through anti football tactics.I didn't think as many are saying that Bayern outclassed us as I thought we were the better team in the second half and 56% possesion can't lie.I thought the fans were terrific brilliant atmosphere although the German fans looked a bit retarded with their pathetic bouncing.Also it's a shame a lot of the Wenger out plastics left early when the team really needed them.

  114. Joe S.

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:01 #32219

    It looked like Bayern didn't even get out of third gear. They just seemed to stroll through the game at their own tempo.Deep down Wegner will be relieved that he got out of this one so lightly and can claim that his team were competitive, undone by some bad bounces. I think his nervousness at the pregame interview was partly due to a real fear of being humiliated by the Bavarians' ultra professionalism. The one plus for Arsenal Inc. was that they were able to demonstrate Jack Wiltshire's talents on the market place and based on his performance the asking price will be very high when the bidders come calling. Definetly something for Stan and Ivan to gloat over.In summary, Arsene I'm enjoying your pain. You have no one to blame but yourself. Too bad you have to drag us fans and our beloved club down with you.

  115. Gooner Fan

    Feb 20, 2013, 12:01 #32218

    "Inside sources have several times indicated to me that he does have money to spend, but chooses not to." Even with mounting evidence (hell you don't need inside sources, just look at all his past actions and searching the net to know that fact), you know that the AKBs will always find excuses to absolve Wenger of all responsibility when it comes to transfers like the brainwashed cult members they are. Just browse through several Arsenal related websites, where there's bound to be a hardcore apologist Wenger or two, telling everybody it's not his fault.

  116. danluvsafc

    Feb 20, 2013, 11:59 #32217

    As usual Kevin spot on article.I too sat through last nights entire game totally uninterested and even when podolski scored i didnt even get out of my seat to applaud as was the case of many others in Block 115.There was a couple of guys arguing at half time on the concourse almost coming to blows again due to a difference of opinions about the manager.As some people on this forum have suggested, people will need to vote with their feet and stop attending games,then maybe the penny may finally drop to the money men gazidis and kronke, that people arent happy.I have had a season ticket since 1990 and started going in 1983.My father who i go to games with has had a season ticket for 31 years and has been a regular for 41 years.Both of us will not be renewing until this rot/stagnation has finally been driven out of this club

  117. Mike

    Feb 20, 2013, 11:59 #32216

    I was in block 100. It wasn't that simple at all. Being aggressive and violent towards your fellow Arsenal fan solves nothing. Funniest part though, was one of two shown the door, claimed to have the right to voice his opinions - over others because he's been a season-ticket holder for 18 years...1995? That kind of sums up the difference in our fanbase. No-one is happy, but its the New-Age supporter who acts in this type of offensive way to his/her fellow supporter. I've been around to know, there are fundamental issues which need addressing. However, if you don't like - you have the option of not attending. It really is that simple. We support a football team. We are not guaranteed success. It is not like buying a TV set - where you know you have statutory rights on the purchase you make. The point is aggression and violence is never the answer. I think you're disrespectful to use this incident - which was completely out of order as a stick to beat the Club up.

  118. Website Editor

    Feb 20, 2013, 11:46 #32215

    If anyone does know the two individuals who were ejected from block 100 at the game, please ask them to get in touch with us. We'd be interested in publicising their plight, in the event that they have had their memberships suspended.

  119. Ron

    Feb 20, 2013, 11:46 #32214

    Many of us are no longer upset at the losses and the manner of them is now so familiar we are impervious to any real feelings about it. This alone doesnt bode well for Arsene Wengers own perception of whether he should stay or go and the Board s ideas on things either regarding whether they should ask him to go by 'mutual agreement' - it wont be a standard sacking. AW should look in the mirror and be honest now. His time is done. Hes been tremndous in the main, but his mojo has gone. A new challenge for him, for his own good beckons surely? As you say, we are a million miles away from the top Euro Clubs, as in fairness are all of the Premier League Clubs. Man Utd have no chance of winning the CL, but at least they do compete still.Enjoyed seeing Munich. Great side and tremendous fans. The 2nd leg will be a bit of a night off for them no doubt.

  120. Darren Downs

    Feb 20, 2013, 11:43 #32213

    I was sat behind the fans who were thrown out. Perhaps the worst thing about it was that other arsenal 'fans' turned on them and backed the stewards. Think that over half the people in attendance these days are on an expenses paid night out or tourists who want to take pictures of the stadium - these were the ones encouraging the ejection. Cowardly I said nothing and had a sleepless night as a result - shouldn't have self-loathing after a game but seems to be a regular occurence now. Feel like my arsenal has disappeared with the exorbitant ticket prices, the branding obsession and the no dissent policy of the stewards. Gutted that the game I love and the team I have followed since the mid 1980s has been taken away from me.