Everything Still Rosy in the Kroenke Garden

Online Editorial – Defeat at Spurs? Who cares?



Everything Still Rosy in the Kroenke Garden

Will he blame petrodollars for Spurs finishing above Arsenal?


Gooners. Relax. On this glummest of mornings I bring good news to cheer the heart. In September, the club’s annual figures will report a healthy profit. Peter Hill-Wood, fitness allowing, will bullishly inform the AGM in October that, in spite making an operating loss, due to the manager’s genius in the transfer market (specifically the sales of Robin van Persie and Alex Song), 2012-13 was a good year for Arsenal. Even if, as a consequence of yesterday’s defeat, Arsenal do not qualify for next season’s Champions League, that self-same genius should ensure profit the following year. A couple of players might be sold, but they will be replaced by others that the manager believes in. So there is no need for unhappiness today. The club’s principal aims are being met.

There are some who might disagree with the sense of priorities of course (and any that dispute this should name another club of Arsenal’s stature who would retain the same manager for eight years without winning a trophy), and they won’t be feeling so good about life today. The Gunners are five points adrift of fourth place, with Spurs moving ahead of Chelsea. Arsene Wenger’s team have 30 points left to play for and if they improve significantly on the lack of consistency demonstrated so far this season can still finish in the top four. Once they have visited Munich they will have no other distractions.

Before the game, it was highlighted that Arsenal had the meanest defensive record on the road in the top flight this season. If ever there was a case of lies, damned lies and statistics, there you have it, because Spurs won this derby due largely to a lack of work on the training ground at London Colney. The offside trap is something that the club have used as an effective weapon since the days of Herbert Chapman. However, it is about as much use as a monkey with a chocolate spanner when the players in front do not press the ball. At this point, I will just hand over to an email received from sometime contributor Theo Jensen…

I wanted to point out that for the goals we conceded, for the first one Walcott should have been tight to Sigurdsson and yet was higher up even than Giroud, while you could see Wilshere gesticulating in anger that he was so unchallenged. Secondly, apart from Monreal and Vermaelen lacking awareness for the second goal the back four shape was pub league standard, and Ramsey was supposed to be closing down Parker.

That's another thing, Ramsey is so woeful. Surely the best comparison with him would be to Torres, both ruined by injuries essentially. Just because he's slow doesn't make him an adequate holding midfielder like some have said, it's maturity, reading the game and experience which compensates that trait for holding midfielders. Equally when playing box to box he is so slow everything breaks down. None are slower going forward though than Giroud. I appreciate the notion of giving a player a year to adapt but why is this legitimate with Giroud? The lone striker is the focal point of everything in a 4-3-3 system, and yet after losing RvP who is surpassed only by Falcao and Messi in that role, Wenger goes for a Ligue 1 'star', rather than someone like Ba or even Dempsey who at least have EPL experience and wouldn't need to adapt, if indeed Giroud can ever do so... His chronic lack of pace is symptomatic of his (lack of) sharpness mentally. He's only scored four goals that weren't from crosses by the way: a chip against lowly Coventry, a near post hit against an exhausted and demoralized Newcastle and a brace against Brighton. Hardly fitting of the apparent 'total football' mould.

It’s a shame about the inability to defend as eleven men, because Arsenal actually played fairly well in this match, certainly the best they have played since Sunderland away. They were easily the best team in the first half and for the second 45 minutes, it was end to end stuff with Spurs counter attacking. Arsenal had their chances, but failed to convert more than once, and that with the assistance of a Bale deflection. Sigurdsson’s profligacy at 2-1 was like a reprieve for a condemned man as the hangman’s noose was placed over his head. Arsenal pressed, and got wide on a number of occasions, but the balls into the box were hit and hope and easily dealt with, percentage stuff that didn’t come off.

At one point, I found myself remembering players that have scored for Arsenal in the last 30 years of this fixture, and names such as Adams, Rocastle, Wright, Bergkamp, Vieira, Pires, Henry and Van Persie came to mind. The club don’t have many of that quality these days. There’s not much more to say about the match. Wenger’s team aren’t as good as they used to be, and as long as they don’t get the basics right, they are going to struggle. They have gained 47 points from 28 matches this season, and are 24 points off Manchester United, a team not funded by petrodollars but run by a board that will speculate to accumulate on players. Mind the gap?

As for the story about an offer for the club from a Middle East consortium, who knows? Stan Kroenke, as a businessman, would be a fool to turn down such an offer if it were genuine, although it is interesting that it may depend on the club being in the Champions League next season. “Arsenal is at a pivotal position at the moment,” said their spokesman. “The fear is that the club is facing a cycle of decline like Liverpool. From our point of view it is the perfect moment to make this bid because at this moment in time you can still genuinely justify this extraordinary valuation on the club. We will not bid for Arsenal if they go into decline. Kroenke and Usmanov will not get this kind of valuation if Arsenal do not succeed and will not get this kind of valuation ever again. We think that bidding now is the key because it is going to give every shareholder maximum value. We are giving them peak valuation.”

One theory is that the consortium is actually a front for Alisher Usmanov, who certainly has the money to make such a bid. Whether Arsenal fans would welcome it or not is one for debate, but few would doubt the club needs a more dynamic direction from its owners and/or directors. The team’s standing has gradually declined since the move from Highbury while profits have meant money that could have been used to improve things has been left in the bank. At the same time, if the tactics and match preparation aren’t right, then what point in buying quality? Arsene Wenger told journalists in his press conference last Friday that he does not do any specific preparation for opposing sides, he just concentrates on the game of his own team. After yesterday, you can believe it. Cazorla and Wilshere were largely pressed out of the game, Spurs’ midfield allowed time on the ball to expose the weakness of Arsenal’s offside trap.

2012/13 is continuing to go the shape of a pear... on the field at least.

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147
comments

  1. mbg

    Jan 08, 2018, 23:57 #105857

    markymark, yes where are the wengerphiles i'd say like this particular one they're all underneath their rocks nice and comfy at the minute embarrassed, until the next regulation 1-0 or 2-0 rollover comes along, like I always say they f*****g deserve him. We want wenger out.

  2. peter wain

    Jan 08, 2018, 9:13 #105828

    both are not good enough. they are not quick enough and we need reinforcements which the manager is incapable of producing

  3. GSPM

    Jan 08, 2018, 9:10 #105827

    ZZZZzzzzzz. From Champions to Top4 - From CL to Europa - From FA Cup to Carabao Cup - From Top4 to Top6 . Wenger Knows ???

  4. Hi Berry

    Jan 08, 2018, 9:07 #105826

    It's not as if there wasn't a precedent to learn from.....Sheffield Wednesday away in the League Cup in the last season or two? Same kind of side selected with the same result.

  5. The Man From UNCLE

    Jan 08, 2018, 9:07 #105825

    No way would I defend Le Fraud or that performance yesterday but it was a long way from a big humiliation. Losing to 4th div opposition in the shape both of Sheffield Utd (1981) and Wrexham (1992) now THAT was a proper humiliation. Oh, and Bradford too. All three games with full strength line up.

  6. MAF

    Jan 08, 2018, 8:41 #105824

    i hope Alexis and Ozil do move on for their own sake and i for one will miss them both. they cannot be blamed when the Club they were good enough to join, refuses to do proper defending behind them. These 2 proved they can open up any defence in the EPL. the Problem is any Team in the EPL can also open up arsenal's defence so we leak Goals everywhere. Can we make the FA touchline ban 3 years instead of 3 matches...?

  7. markymark

    Jan 08, 2018, 6:42 #105823

    Good to see proper Arsenal supporters getting on Radiio 5 last night telling it like it is. Good to hear Chris Sutton say that Wenger should have gone years ago. Wengerphiles kept their heads down. At least we are moving the paradigm shift to the majority of supporters finally realising its end stage stuff. Wonder if Badarse has crawled back under thar rock he was always on about.

  8. Moscowgooner

    Jan 08, 2018, 6:16 #105822

    This really has to rank up there with my worst 3rd round memories: Blackpool in 1970 (a real thrashing at Bloomfield Road by a second division team), Wrexham (of course) and then Wolves in about 1975 - an abject 0-3 surrender against a team that was bottom (or close to it) of the first division.

  9. mbg

    Jan 08, 2018, 0:14 #105821

    proudtosay, it wouldn't have made any difference anyway, he wouldn't/doesn't know how to react, he just gets lucky. wenger out.

  10. proudtosaythatname

    Jan 07, 2018, 23:07 #105820

    I agree with Paulward that other clubs have put out weaker teams. However, generally they include a few big hitters on the bench as insurance. Wenger picked a bench that was weaker than the starting 11 so that he couldn't react when we went behind.

  11. johngage1

    Jan 07, 2018, 23:00 #105819

    6th Place Trophy?

  12. mbg

    Jan 07, 2018, 22:47 #105818

    Clueless headless f*****g chickens, and the old limp clueless rooster himself sitting up on his perch in the stands looking like death warmed up. Any resignation yet ?. wenger out.

  13. Paulward

    Jan 07, 2018, 20:32 #105817

    Think he would have played a stronger team if it wasn’t for Wednesday night. He simply has to play the first 11 v Chelsea now.The selection wasn’t the problem because all the top six did the same thing except Liverpool who had to play Everton. The problems were a lack of fight in the middle of the pitch, a lightweight forward line and a non existent defensive strategy.In other words the same problems the first team suffer with.

  14. Ebor Gooner

    Jan 07, 2018, 20:15 #105816

    The man in charge at THE Arsenal these days only cares about himself, and his enormous salary. This wasn't a weakened selection. It was a calculated decision that his "first choice" XI could easily have lost to Forest. That possibility would put his continued employment under pressure. Therefore, selecting an apparently "lesser" side allows him a "get out" that his best side (might) have managed a win. And thus, he continues as our Manager. It will end, eventually, but I fear we have further to fail before he is finally ousted.

  15. Arseneknewbest

    Jan 07, 2018, 20:11 #105815

    A huge corner turned tonight...for goonerron who has seen the light and realised that Arsenal's sad demise has been caused by wengo! You've come over to the light side at last Ronnie! Otherwise, I'm out of words. Our enemy within has almost finished f*cking us.

  16. mbg

    Jan 07, 2018, 19:59 #105814

    Hi Berry, and I wonder what their doing about it mate, I expectthe usual. wenger out.

  17. mbg

    Jan 07, 2018, 19:48 #105813

    Well there's our answer and so soon too, you couldn't make it up, wenger out tonight.

  18. proudtosaythatname

    Jan 07, 2018, 19:48 #105812

    Totally agree with GoonerRon. Wenger should be sacked for his non-team selection for the only competition we can win. The (devalued) FA Cup was his lifebelt and now he's punctured that too. Proudtosaythatname? I once was.

  19. GoonerRon

    Jan 07, 2018, 19:31 #105811

    Well that was utter ****. I know we’ve had lots of games recently and a lot of injuries but surely at least the bench had got to be stronger? For the umpteenth time this season the fringe players prove they don’t have the ability or appetite (or both) to push into the first team. The feeling of end of days for Wenger continuing to build.

  20. mbg

    Jan 07, 2018, 19:23 #105810

    Who's fault was that then AKB's ? the ref ? the grass ? lets be havin ye ? if there's any decency left in the c**t he'll resign tonight, wenger out now.

  21. Exiled in Pt

    Jan 07, 2018, 18:28 #105809

    Mertsacker retired by an 18 year old Holding humiliated!!The board and Wenger fu#k off now sick and tired of saying it.. Sacrifice the one real cup for what!! A once proud club destroyed!!

  22. Hi Berry

    Jan 07, 2018, 18:22 #105808

    It's arrogance, MoscowGooner pure and simple. Thought he would swat away a Championship side with his top quality second string. Why should the travelling fans make the effort to watch the reserves? Complete disdain for the paying 'customers'.

  23. KC38

    Jan 07, 2018, 18:21 #105807

    Pass pass pass no end product. Caught on the break again and again and again, it’s beyond explanation simply put we are a circus. Iwobi Walcott Welbeck Holding Elneny average at best. How do those Arsenal fans not turn on this manager, this was nearly as shameful as Wrexham. We are going backwards fast, home tickets not selling, the signs are there I cannot believe the hierarchy can’t see it, very soon top 4 will be out of reach, the ground will see more and more empty seats, Wenger will be in for a torrid time which will be very much deserved, his arrogance is beyond belief, just does not pay the defensive side of the game any time at all. I’m all in favour of good football but a team has to have balance Wenger won’t have it and we ship goals for fun, 4 goals to a team 14th in the championship.........

  24. Guy in Jersey

    Jan 07, 2018, 18:17 #105806

    Wenger has treated the cup competitions with contempt for years even though they've saved his a**e on a number of occasions. Today, his luck finally ran out. Hopefully, it's a sign that we're nearing the end of his increasingly depressing tenure. Professor Clueless, stop moaning, whingeing and blaming everyone else, and kindly sod off.

  25. Exiled in Pt

    Jan 07, 2018, 18:17 #105805

    What a fu#kin disgrace. Embarrassed by a team of youngsters who had desire commitment and more importantly were coached in how to play football. Headless chickens no organisation Forest deserved that win. Wenger should resign now but we all know he wont. Schoolboys can anyone explain who was playing in what position!!!!!! Glad i am stuck out here and not standing in Nottingham tonight in disbelief. Words cannot express how disgusted i am with a club i once followed home and away. Who will he blame now the referee the linesman it wont be his inept management!! Laughing stock ruined and destroyed everything i would once fight for. Arsenal R. I. P

  26. Moscowgooner

    Jan 07, 2018, 18:08 #105804

    Appalling team selection at Forest today: we got exactly what we deserved. Why didn't he at least put some quality on the bench???! Astonishingly offhand attitude towards the one trophy that has kept AW in his job for the past few seasons.

  27. BigDaveTheGooner

    Jan 07, 2018, 18:03 #105803

    Untenable,simply untenable,out you go Wenger and take all the dross with you!!!!!!

  28. Guy in Jersey

    Jan 07, 2018, 18:02 #105802

    Walcott, Welbeck and Wenger (especially Wenger) = woeful.

  29. Bob Bayliss

    Jan 07, 2018, 17:56 #105801

    If Holding holds the key we are buggered

  30. Goonhogday

    Jan 07, 2018, 17:53 #105800

    The team just gets worse year on year, the elite players want out, contracts left to run down, transfer targets missed or don’t want join us, we sell players to our rivals, no clear backroom staff structures, lack of first team coaching, the worst corner takers in the league, an ownership that are far from unified instead of acting like custodians of this great club and the worlds most selfish, stubborn manager who now has a 3 game touch line ban. What a joke we are ... is this the values Wenger refers to?

  31. MAF

    Jan 07, 2018, 17:32 #105799

    we really are an utter shambles of a club thanks to owners board bottling the wenger leave decision last June. lets face it 80% of us knew last summer wenger staying on was the worst possible outcome and our informed fears coming true. its embarassing what we have become. if it was not for ozil sanchez we would not have given utd liverpool chelsea spurs the game we have them at the emirates and these 2 want out. i dont blame them at all. any ambitious player could not stay at Arsenal now. Lemar @ Monaco wont choose Arsenal; Mahrez would be mad to. why be an offensive player at Arsenal when you know your defence will leak goals every single match. it makes all your good work worthless as we saw against utd liverpool chelsea, etc. Wenger is dragging this club into the gutter now and we all have to see out the rest of the season experiencing some horrible pains. well get sorted at Utd and Spurs away and we wont touch City at home. In the Europa the likes of Athletico will eat us for a snack. our club is weak-willed, frail, fragile, negative mentality, complaining, no solutions, no power, no answers. constant injuries, overpaid mediocre players with no bottle. every weak characteristic is tolerated by an old very selfish man who has totally lost his way and been permitted to drag the club into a downward spiral. sad, tragic, sickening. One can only hope the power of the people is going to force change at this club.

  32. markymark

    Jan 07, 2018, 17:06 #105798

    The next battle will be to remove Wenger’s presence ASAP. Can’t have miserable scoats such as Badarse and his ratgtag follower Toad boring us rigid with their post Wengo mourning. I’ll personally fight to stop a Wengo Statue outside the ground though I’d imagine there’s enough Wengophiles who want a statue for 14/15 years of mediocrity

  33. mbg

    Jan 07, 2018, 16:01 #105797

    Goonhogday, or a plausible strategy to try and fend of and keep the WOB happy and quiet, nothing would surprise anymore with wenger and his devious cronies. wenger out now.

  34. Bard

    Jan 07, 2018, 11:48 #105796

    John F I read that. It would make sense for him to leave after one year as there will be one hell of a ****e show as his current 2 years comes to an end. This will destabilise the club rather in the way Fergie going did at Untd. I do wonder whether his current irritability has something to do with this. Currently we dont look like we will make top 5, never mind top 4. The club are also on the verge of losing in the region of £150/200m with Sanchez. Ozil and possibly Jack going, This is nothing less than a catastrophe financially.The sensible strategy is to appoint someone at the end of this season and move Wenger on with the minimum of fuss. But then again since when have Arsenal done the sensible thing.

  35. Goonhogday

    Jan 07, 2018, 11:01 #105795

    I agree John F. That’s a plausible strategy to fend off the will he, won’t he speculation. I just have this nagging fear Wenger moves into the boardroom when he’s had enough and then recommends a “puppet manager” that he can advise and manipulate etc. No experienced manager worth their salt would put up with a setup like that. I really hope I’m wrong about that theory though.

  36. John F

    Jan 07, 2018, 9:41 #105794

    I found it interesting that our new 2 million pound Greek defender wasn't a Wenger signing but the new backroom teams.This gives me hope that this is his final season as there is no way he would relinquish control of transfers and what he said of the new set up did not sound like a ringing endorsement.As far as Wenger never breaking a contract this might of changed due to last years experience,if he had said he was signing a one year contract he would of had to suffer a season of press speculation which Wenger claimed disrupted the team last season.A two year contract stops the speculation and allows the club to get on with the changes behind the scenes in preparation for the new chap.

  37. northbank123

    Jan 06, 2018, 20:06 #105793

    They both definitely need playing time - both (understandably) very raw and generally dragged out of position far too easily by the better strikers at this level. To be honest I don't think Chambers has it and he doesn't look like a CB to me, but Holding should have been loaned out to play every week. New or improved personnel wouldn't solve the problem though. Not by a long chalk. It's systemic.

  38. mbg

    Jan 06, 2018, 15:54 #105792

    So the whinger gets himself a three match ban, he was expecting just one, lol, here's me thinking we'll get to see what boulds made off now and maybe enjoy a game or two again, any other manager would leave it to his assistant, to a certain extent anyway, but we know that won't happen with the old fraud, his arrogance and ego will see to that, team talk instructions(for what it is, and their worth)will be given before hand in the hotel or on the bus no doubt, and bouldy will just sit there nodding as usual only this time through his ear piece, under strict instructions to follow them to the letter with no deviations whatsoever and god help him if he disobeys and doesn't, even if we're getting stuffed. whinger out.

  39. Bard

    Jan 06, 2018, 10:15 #105791

    The more interesting issue to my mind is what we seem to be doing with AMN. He looks as though he has the right stuff but why the hell are we playing him at full back when he's a centre mid holding player. He cant be worse than Xhaka and could be a significant upgrade in the longer run. I dont get this playing players out of position.

  40. Bob Bayliss

    Jan 06, 2018, 9:56 #105790

    Absolute garbage, Simon. Chambers (of Horrors) will never be good enough for Arsenal. I am not convinced Holding will be, though he could be ok as cover. Our centre-backs were on a par with Liverpool's.....but of course they have recognised this and addressed it. We should have been in for Van Dijk.

  41. Hi Berry

    Jan 06, 2018, 9:50 #105789

    Following on from my previous post I can also remember an article in either the S Times or Guardian a few years back responding to the perpetual injury crisis which beset Arsenal. It suggested that playing just one or two players out of position put unnecessary stress on other players resulting in a knock on effect throughout the team. Classic example would be Arshavin out wide and not tracking back. This, in turn, created a further problem not only with other players then being dragged out of position to cover but also with an increase in strains on the body resulting in injuries. Sound familier?

  42. Moscowgooner

    Jan 06, 2018, 5:23 #105788

    Play Holding and Chambers together - in a consistent back 4 - for the rest of the season. Nothing to lose really: they need to be tested as a centre back pairing - but that can't happen until they have a decent run of 10 to 15 (league) games on the trot together. Make or break before the Summer. The defensive midfielder to screen a back four has been a requirement for many seasons now; the lack of a real option there puts huge pressure on the centre backs anyway - but nothing will change in the Wenger era.

  43. Goonhogday

    Jan 05, 2018, 23:28 #105787

    If Holding & Chambers are to be part of our future defence, we’d better get a new manager in asap then. Wenger out, Kroenke out

  44. mbg

    Jan 05, 2018, 22:05 #105786

    Hi Berry, great post, eight nine years ago, and it hasn't got one bit better since, even regressed Sad isn't it, it tells us all we need to know about whinger (as if we didn't already) and oh how the AKB's, who were deafening in their support and defending of him then, especially on here, supporting TOF to the hilt thinking he'll come good, lol, non existent now, gave it to gray and co, and slagged the WOB's off for betraying Arsenal and their precious messiah with their fook off down the lane crap, where are they now ? i'll tell you where they are mate sitting on their arse suffering a serious dose of reality and realising just how right we were, only now it's to late the damage is done. wenger out now.

  45. John F

    Jan 05, 2018, 21:23 #105785

    Great posts above.I believe Wenger's neglect of the defence is due to his mistaken belief that possession football is the best form of defence and he does not feel he has to do defensive tactics.

  46. RobG

    Jan 05, 2018, 20:17 #105784

    Exeter Ex - Post 111595 - that is right on the money. So true. We won't defend until we get a Manager who is determined to get the whole team to defend as a unit, when necessary.

  47. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Jan 05, 2018, 18:30 #105783

    Redshirtswhitesleeves,good post mate, I was given the "89" DVD for Christmas and it stirs the blood in me for the old Arsenal. However the saddest part of the film is listening to Steve Bould talking about how GG made him work for hours, without the ball, on how to make your body the right shape for defending, where to stand in relation to the goal you are defending etc. Then to know that this stalwart and fine defender has turned native, it's very upsetting.

  48. Hi Berry

    Jan 05, 2018, 17:56 #105782

    Strange isn't it....but can any of you remember Andy Gray on Sky dissecting another woeful Arsenal defensive performance. I think his words were something along the lines of 'the defence just never seems to be set' as he took us through yet another example of two central defenders outnumbered by attackers. Gray was sacked from Sky in 2011 and his comments were on games way before then. Just about says it all really.

  49. mbg

    Jan 05, 2018, 17:49 #105781

    And to refer to, compare and mention that cart horse Mertesacker in the same breath as the great Tony Adams is sacrilege, and loses you any respect you had, and is indeed only something we'd hear from a devout wengerite, and proves you don't know much about football especially defending, and when you first started supporting and watching Arsenal. wenger out now.

  50. Gaz

    Jan 05, 2018, 17:38 #105780

    Waste of time and as utterly pointless as talking about transfers in and out. Simon, you're a sensible lad, do you really not understand what the main problem is at Arsenal?

  51. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Jan 05, 2018, 16:54 #105779

    Sorry Simon but let me give you another example and see if you understand the point we are all trying to make. If, when we lose the ball and both our wide backs, wing backs, full backs, auxiliary wingers, whatever you want to call them, are 50 yards ahead of our centre backs, we have no cover, agreed? The opposition normally have a man over on the break, sometimes two, it does not matter how good our two centre backs are if the opposing player on the ball releases the spare man at the right time, that spare man has a clear run on goal. This happened against Chelsea time & again, it is nothing to do with player quality, it is a tactical coaching problem and this is purely down to Wenger. Teams we play work very hard on counter attacking against Arsenal, because at the moment we lose the ball we have no shape and worse no plan. When you start talking about a new manager at Arsenal then we will all know that the penny has finally dropped with you.

  52. Jason

    Jan 05, 2018, 16:49 #105778

    I believe Wenger decided to go to a three at the back as it would mask our lack of quality, (it doesn't work like that) and despite only having four centre backs at the club who are as follows.. Chambers, young and not good enough, Holding, young and not good enough (yet), Mertesacker, too old and slow, Kos, carrying long term injury, oh and Monreal who is a left back. Hardly surprising its a shambles back there is it!!

  53. CORNISH GOONER

    Jan 05, 2018, 16:44 #105777

    The players are an irrelevance. Clouseau's media behaviour this week would be a sackable offence elsewhere. Talk about bringing the Club into disrepute! Trump has the mind & behaviour of a small child but some people apparently find that an attraction. What's attractive about our arrogant, out of touch, elderly Supreme Leader?

  54. MAF

    Jan 05, 2018, 16:42 #105776

    the guys below are all spot on. for example. maitland niles. clearly an excellent Young prospect but have a look again at Alonso's Goal the other night and watch how MN is out of Position. same happend to Bellerin alot and now Chambers Holding and dont Forget Sead Kolašinac arrived as a good Defender. they all lose their way as did Gabrielle. Now compare that with Declan Rice the Young back at west ham who you can already see has got Stuart Pearce full back tapes playing in his head on what to do and not to do. this Young guy was excellent last nite v spurs. ARSENAL DO NOT DO DEFENDERS ANYMORE

  55. Redshirtwhitesleeves

    Jan 05, 2018, 16:40 #105775

    GG proved you can get a great defence together through sheer hard work and bloody minded grit and determination without having to spend on star names. Wenger just isn't interested and for 10 years we have paid the price of continually making the same mistakes and thus failing. I have never seen a side beaten by 1 long ball over the top as often as Wengers Arsenal of the last decade. I got the 89 DVD for Christmas and got more pleasure from watching that for an hour and a half than I have from Wenger and his brigade of pussies and bottle jobs since moving to the E******. Wenger can bang on about 'values' till he's blue in the face. GG and his sides had all the true Arsenal values in abundance. This current lot would s*** themselves coming up against that 89 team of real men

  56. Jason

    Jan 05, 2018, 16:31 #105774

    Completely agree with the above posts. Arsenal have had two decent defences under Wenger, and none in over 10 years!! Dixon, Winterburn, Adams, Keown/Bould, who Wenger inherited. Lauren (who was a midfielder and played out of position who happened to work out) Cole (youth player) Campbell (free transfer) Toure (see Lauren) That is it. Our defence is bottom half quality at best, and championship quality at worst. Wenger either, can't see it, doesn't care, or just cannot coach or tactically set it up any better. I suspect its all three.

  57. Bard

    Jan 05, 2018, 15:53 #105773

    Simon thats an odd post really, it ignores the defensive malaise that's been evident for years. The bottom line is we dont 'do' defence. Discussions about Holding or Chambers are largely pointless as a consequence. Exeter's excellent reply says it all.

  58. Yes its Ron

    Jan 05, 2018, 15:47 #105772

    Banks Fachetti Nesta Cannavaro Maldini Scirea Beckanbaur Pirlo. I think essentially Simon what people are saying is that Wenger in another era would f--k this little lot up as a defensive unit.

  59. mbg

    Jan 05, 2018, 15:13 #105770

    Simon you really still don't get it do you ? even after all this time and evidence, Once a wengerite always a wengerite, there's only one up grade needed and has been for years and it's not or hasn't been players (although they would need to come later) the question marks have been after wengers name for years now, about twelve, it's him who has been erratic, (and that's putting it very mildly) forget Holding and Chambers (and any others) they or the club have no future with this old past it erratic manager even if they were to improve or step up it wouldn't be for long, wenger will only destroy them. So keep wasting your time (and ours) penning if's and but's and silly scenarios that are never going to happen or come to frutition with this past it old manager. wenger out now.

  60. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Jan 05, 2018, 14:42 #105769

    Simon : If we had Baresi and John Charles in defence it would still be a shambles because under Arsene we don't do defending. We have players who line up in a defensive position that suggest a defender is wearing an Arsenal shirt but this purely coincidental and not based on any known fully coached footballer. Holding and Chambers would be better of going to a Championship side under the many excellent young managers who earn their corn in that division - it would certainly help their careers.

  61. Yes its Ron

    Jan 05, 2018, 14:09 #105768

    Exeters dead on the money there however, that much said, the thought that these two are the key to Arsenals defensive prowess speaks volumes about the Club this last 10 yrs. Chambers is a Championship player and arguably Holding isnt much better than that.

  62. Exeter Ex

    Jan 05, 2018, 13:49 #105767

    Simon, do you really, genuinely think the defensive issues could be solved by changing personnel - after a decade of evidence telling you otherwise? Wenger himself has told you he's the issue. Wenger is the one who said he'd like to play with only one defender if it was possible. Wenger is one who when asked why both full backs bomb forward replied 'We play'. Wenger is the one allowing the supposed DM to 'bugger off upfield'. Wenger is the one who has said he's rather lose his job than change his 'values'. He's not interested. Holding, Chambers and any other defender have no chance with such a 'coach'. A debate about the defence is a complete waste of time until the day comes Arsenal have a manager who's actually capable and bothered to doing something about it. You're still scared to properly address the real issue.

  63. Stevesam

    Mar 08, 2013, 8:42 #33030

    @Jude - Your obsession with Ramsey is becoming comical, take the blinkers off and try looking at the other 10 players. No comment about our woeful strikers and the Giroud miss ? If I were you I would get some treatment.

  64. Ronster

    Mar 07, 2013, 16:06 #32993

    Harry wouldn't be top of my list either but the fact that some fans believe the likes of Redknapp and Moyes not worthy to manage AFC is indicative of the arrogant dross spouted by Wenger in recent years.So you're telling me 'Arry and David wouldn't be able to hold a candle to the conveyor belt of schoolboy talent le God has masterminded in almost a generation at the club.How could these two possibly continue the legacy of winning football that has seen us match Liverpool Football Club in Europe and have Real Madrid looking nervously over their shoulder!? It grates me when Wenger is held up as our greatest manager.The club was drifting aimlessly when George Graham was plucked from Millwall yet in his first season we beat the mighty Liverpool in the then prestigious League Cup Final,won the league in their backyard two years later and pickpocketed Parma in '94 to claim our last European trophy.Has Wenger been an excellent custodian? Yes. Should we be concerned when he eventually departs? Definitely not!

  65. Gooner Fan

    Mar 07, 2013, 12:37 #32981

    @Chris: who says I want Harry at Arsenal when there are better managers out there that can replace Wenger? My last post was just stating fact, which I thought you might like, but my bad you don't pay attention to facts that put Wenger in a negative light. Just thought I mentioned that I but shouldn't have, since I can imagine you've been extra grumpy, since Arsenal isn't the 2nd best defensive team anymore as you boasted in a previous article after the spuds match.

  66. Canterbury Gooner

    Mar 06, 2013, 21:01 #32969

    @Chris my mistake, I thought you were saying the mass of Wenger critics wanted Harry- no straw man, just talking cross purposes. I don't believe anything could represent 'goonerdom as a whole' really, I agree the article was bogus but they've even had Wenger poetry on here! The only time they don't post articles is when there are too many contributors (Kevin has said this himself) submitting pieces at once. Not to cut you off but I think this thread is over now so I'll count that as my final statement.

  67. Chris

    Mar 06, 2013, 17:23 #32962

    Canterbury Gooner - Sorry, still don't get your point. Ronster and Gooner Fan both made favourable comparisons to Harry, hence me making a point by referring to the fact that many did the same last year just before Sp*rs imploded. The straw man is yours. Kevin is indeed entitled to his opinion but at the same time, as has been recognised by the publisher, he rus the risk of tarnishing the reputation of The Gooner because in many publications, the editors 'opinion' (if you can call agitating for public demonstrations & possibly disorder merely an 'opinion' - I would beg to differ on that)reflect the policies of the publication. To return to my specific point, the article about the agent saying Wenger profited personally from tranfers was so flimsy and clearly designed to discredit - not to inform or spark debate - that i'm surprised it was published. In my opinion, that it was reflects that Kevin edits in line with his oft-stated agenda - even if a wider variety of articles are published. And that could lead to the legacy of the publication being tarnished because it doesn't reflect Gooner-dom as a whole. My opinion - just thought i'd share it....

  68. Canterbury Gooner

    Mar 06, 2013, 13:44 #32954

    @Chris you compared it to last year that was why I made that point. I didn't see many AMGs jumping on the bandwagon- you're an AKB though so ultimately you can't legitimately criticise people for having reached a conclusion and looking for facts to support that afterwards. Kevin is entitled to his own opinion, and there are a variety of views published on here. It's only tarnished in your view for 'daring' to question your infallible hero.

  69. Chris

    Mar 06, 2013, 12:49 #32948

    Canterbury Gooner- if you read Ronster's post, he compared QPR's defensive record "since Harry took over" with Arsenal's over the same period - hence my comment. As for the article - we only know which are published. Maybe they DO represent fairly those submitted - who knows - but it's pretty clear where Kevin's editorial stance lies. That article was a complete joke based on nothing and can only have been published with the sole intention of discrediting Wenger. It was hysterical to see the AMGs queue up to nod heads and coo "Ooh yes, that explains a few things." Slander? Sue me.

  70. Canterbury Gooner

    Mar 06, 2013, 12:23 #32946

    @Chris not all people who questioned Wenger wanted Harry Redknapp- way to attack a straw man! you like doing that... and that article was part of many he allowed to be submitted, it's an open church here. Sceptics of Wenger aren't the credulous ones either mate; you're the one that tries so desperately hard to always protect Wenger. Cult members like you have no right to slander an open website for airing views that differ to yours.

  71. Chris

    Mar 06, 2013, 10:42 #32934

    So, goonerfan, like to see him at Arsenal would you? Better bet than Wenger, do you think?

  72. Gooner Fan

    Mar 06, 2013, 10:01 #32929

    @Chris: 'Arry's spuds finished just one point behind us last season, despite having a much lower wage bill than ours. Just thought I would let you know that fact, since you mess yourself reading up on facts.

  73. Ronster

    Mar 06, 2013, 9:53 #32927

    Chris...you certainly are the proverbial 'dog with a bone'...sitting comfortably in Wenger's lap are we!?

  74. Chris

    Mar 06, 2013, 8:53 #32923

    Ronster - don't worry I will. Someone has to and it certainly won't be you, Kevin or that dude at the most ironically named website in the blogosphere. Keep lapping up the drip feed Kevin has set up for you, articles about Russian agents claiming Wenger is benefitting financially from selling players and other articles so ludicrous I suspect that whatever happens with Wenger, The Gooner's reputation has been permanently tarnished.

  75. Ronster

    Mar 05, 2013, 22:35 #32922

    Chris...we certainly have...'Groundhog Day' I believe they call it.Keep speaking the 'Arsenal Truth'...you know it makes sense!

  76. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 05, 2013, 21:05 #32921

    Canada spot on couldn't agree more, we all remember fat sam's bolton among others and i may be wrong but i think it was old red nose who started it all off with the manc's rough house tactics way way back,and ogl complained and complained to everybody that would listen, and you know what ? we all bought into it, when all the time the fact he was tactically inept and hadn't a clue what to do about it was staring us in the face.And as you say it's got to the stage now where teams don't need to rough us up anymore because we're that predictable all they need is a manager who knows the basics about tactics.

  77. Jude J.

    Mar 05, 2013, 20:55 #32919

    Agree with the email the Ed included from Theo Jensen. Ramsey does nothing. His defenders say he’ll run and run all day. Translation: he gives fouls away, passes backwards during counter attacks, and dare I mention that disgraceful miss from a superb Rosicky through ball. Woeful.

  78. Wombledin

    Mar 05, 2013, 19:42 #32918

    Now what if this purported Arab consortium, or some other kind of billionaire boys club with nothing better to do than waste their millions on football teams, decided to go and buy Spurs? How would we all feel then????? Take the offer Kroenke and do us all a favour and FK OFF, you soulless plastic waxwork yankee, and take Ivan Gazidis and Tom Fox and all the rest of your X-box corporate brand fatcats with you. And don't forget to take Wenker too.

  79. Chris

    Mar 05, 2013, 17:16 #32915

    Ronster - by golly you're right! Maybe we should campaign for 'Arry to take over from Wenger? Hang on - we've been here before, haven't we? Around this time last year....

  80. CanadaGooner

    Mar 05, 2013, 16:44 #32911

    Kev, I bet you had to dig deep to find this pic of a self-fulfilled gazidis looking like the cat who got the cream! Perfect pic that really does describe the club's current plight. What never ceases to surprise me is that although we've all known about Wenger's tactical flaws for many years now, we still kept hoping against all odds that surely he can't be so self-destructively stubborn! The signs started showing when Arsenal lost match after match against Sam Allardyce's Bolton and Wenger would moan about Davies and Nolan instead of making tactical changes required to nullify their threat and deal with Bolton. Then it was Stoke and then Didier Drogba turned Arsenal games into his signature matches and Wenger lost match after match against Drogba and the pattern continued. Now virtually any team has a chance against arsenal, bet it bradford or a non-league team. Wenger got away with his lack of tactics for years only because of the character of some of the players like Viera, bergkamp and others who just wanted to win. And even so, they could have won so much more. Nothing will change while wenger stays in charge. The board will remain satisfied as their pockets get lined; we will sell Wiltshire and others to makeup for the CL money and they'll balance their books and carry on till there's no one else left to sell and THEN and only THEN will Kroenke sell the club and take Gazidis with him to the next franchise they hope to MILK! Arsenal's now just a cash cow my friends! We're no longer a credible football club (and haven't been for a while now; like Liverpool we're just clinging on to delusions of grandeur, and they're even better off that us both on the historical count as well as recent trophy count)

  81. Gooner Fan

    Mar 05, 2013, 13:50 #32903

    @Ronster: silly, you know Chris doesn't pay attention to stats or facts that put Wenger in a negative light.

  82. mkherd 89

    Mar 05, 2013, 7:21 #32893

    WHAT MAKES ME LAUGH IS HOW MANY OF YOU IDIOTS WANTED KRONKE INSTEAD OF USMANOV,THIS SITE HAS BECOME A JOKE

  83. Gare Kekeke

    Mar 05, 2013, 3:49 #32892

    We had a lot of possession? So what. How many clear cut chances did we create? Very little. And as for the defending for Tottenham’s goals? Pathetic. I agree with Graham Taylor’s half time assessment on BBC radio. It was schoolboy stuff. But then I forgot, according to the Wenger apologists, our defending this season has brilliant and the so-called improved defensive record is proof of this. Talk about being delusional. I agree with others that Jenkinson was our only player to have come out of the game with any sort of credit. Two things that upset me about the away support at the Lane. The monkey chants aimed at Bale and the banana thrown towards him during the first half. Bale getting stick from Gooners is no issue with me because of who he plays for but personally what I heard and saw towards him was disgusting. Yes it wasn’t racial related but my God I felt uncomfortable for a time. Talk about watching live football in the 1980s all over again. Oh yeah and Usmanov was at the game too. Was Kroenke interested in the result? Debatable. I’m not worked up about the defeat though. I have so little expectation of The Arsenal these days; a defeat doesn’t hurt me even if it is Tottenham. I’ll believe a takeover of The Arsenal when I see it. But do I hope to see the end of Kroenke & Gazidis very soon? Absolutely. The Arsenal is in dire need of a change from the boardroom to the manager. And if please God a takeover was to happen, Wenger wouldn’t stick around either as new owners would demand success and Wenger would look like a total hypocrite if he accepted to spend a large amount of money having moaned for ten years about the spending power of Chelsea & Man City. Funny how he keeps quiet though about PSG. Hypocrisy in him already evident. As GoonerGoal brilliantly puts it with his regular posts, ‘Vive La Revolution’. It can’t come soon enough. Up The Arsenal!

  84. griffdaz

    Mar 05, 2013, 3:23 #32891

    Dear Mr wenger I am the CO of a large banking company in the heart of London. I have been following your performance for the last 5 year's. I am highly impressed at your constant gambling on poor products and your stubbornness. Anyhow to cut a long story short I am offering you a position within the banking industry where failure is rewarded and due to your experience in failure I feel you would slot right into the company. Yours sincerely fat Fat cat

  85. Dartford gooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 23:20 #32890

    Best quote from Wenger when asked about any take over was ' i do not get involved with the financial side of things' and he said it with a straight face. Arsene if you are going to play a high line with two slow centre backs try playing a sweeper behind, but then again knowing you it would be Arshavin! When are the crowd going to turn on the board, if they can't bring them selves to have a go at Wenger at least have a go at the lot in the big box.

  86. DW Thomas

    Mar 04, 2013, 22:57 #32887

    What kind of defense do we expect when Walcott, Podolski, et al are not grilled when they don't do their defensive duties. Wenger does not even hide his true attitudes about defending. It is ridiculous that a team of Arsenal's caliber is allowed to deteriorate like it has. Where was Rosicky in the starting line up? First mistake was starting Ramsey. Where was Kos? He should have been starting all year over TV who is now a total shadow of his former self. Why was Jenks subbed when he was playing so well? These decisions are those of only one man-Wenger. It is insanity again and again! And if I hear one more stats related comment about our Keystone Cops defending I might go nutty! We should be good enough to,beat Spurs despite Bale but too many players are regressing through bad management. It is obvious the faves play despite their or others form. The whole club stinks to its deep core and the rot can only be stopped by doing the opposite of most all that Wenger does. Buy better players, coach defense including man marking, and start the best players, not just the hardest workers. There's no consistency in that either. Compare Ramsey's and Walcott's wages and work ethic. Now I'm having a laugh! $100k to hide in games that really matter? You can't make it up. I could go on and on, but others have and will say the same things again and again till change happens. BIG CHANGE!

  87. Ken

    Mar 04, 2013, 22:49 #32886

    For gods sake do what they do at Chelsea, Get the posters and banners out with words like Wenger out now time to go.

  88. Salman Ali

    Mar 04, 2013, 22:02 #32885

    we have to get rid of wenger and finds some new blood he has lost his way . We can't keep paying him 7.5 mil for failire. We need to buy good defenders like samba why did we not go for him but QPR did. We have to spend the 70mil buy good players not french amatheres. The club got big problems but if we buy the players getrid wenger have a proper owener in charge . Arsenal can became the kings of london and the world again but wenger kronke won't go dredful players will remain and the disaster will continu true gooner keep the optimisum

  89. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 21:23 #32883

    SilverGooner, they didn't have much homework to do,just like all the rest of the teams we play.

  90. Stevesam

    Mar 04, 2013, 20:26 #32881

    Usually this is a bad day at the office for me, after getting beat by the Spuds. We normally expect to win and are very disappointed when we lose, which makes their gloating even harder to take. Today most of the neutrals I spoke to said we were the better team and we deserved at least a draw. They had three decent chances and scored from two. This is a Spud team that have overtaken us and left us behind. We are underperforming, in decline and probably our worst squad and weakest strikers for ten years. Our Manager has lost the plot and the Board have no ambition other than to make profit. Did the Spuds wipe the floor with us, I don’t think so. I would go so far as to say they were lucky. Vertongen MoM, says it all. Most of the Spuds I encountered were told its only three points and they shall lose their bottle when squeaky bum time comes. I also reminded them of the 5 -2 at the Bowl. They have spent a fortune, but are not much better than us. They still play in a stadium over 100 years old and they were probably not born when they last won the league. As one of their legends, Jimmy Greaves was quoted as saying, “Spurs have had some big players, but they have never been a big club” Remember it’s only three points and we shall still finish above them. In the last 17 games we have played at WHL they have only won 4. So it’s not all doom and gloom, the Spuds shall always be a little club with no history. The Spuds that I met went away with a reminder of how ‘poor’ we are and how ‘great’ they are, comical to see their faces, perhaps they should have won the game easily !

  91. Neal

    Mar 04, 2013, 20:11 #32879

    I think the time has come for us fans to stop whining about our current position / lack of leadership and ambition and start to make our feelings known to the club. I'm not advocating booing the players or even booing wenger because he has been a great servant to the club, (albeit one who appears increasing deluded). I think that a few thousand fans in the ground turning the heat up on gazidis and kronke at the next game is called for. This in turn should be increased as the season progresses with a mass stand out for one of the next games. Imagine the problems the club would have if even 3000 people stood outside protesting for the first half and then entering the stadium for the second to continue it. It would need to be policed and stewarded and this would cause all sorts of logistical and financial implications for the club on match day. Hitting them in the pocket and causing them problem will be the only way we may really start on the long road to getting our club back.

  92. HowardL

    Mar 04, 2013, 19:53 #32877

    Kev, you are right. Who cares? Like Ron and Tony, I've 'hated' Spurs for more than 50 years, so I found it hard to come to terms with my feelings of indifference yesterday. Where now for Arsenal then?

  93. Sweeps

    Mar 04, 2013, 18:56 #32876

    No Defence. Wenger

  94. Trevor

    Mar 04, 2013, 17:50 #32874

    Jenko put in more dangerous crosses in sixty minutes than Sagna has all season. His reward? Make way for Rosicky, who needs to be starting, and watch Aaron f***ing Ramsey slot in at right back. What is the manager doing? I don’t care that it took a deflection, there was no way Ramsey was going to equalize when he was in on Lloris. Gervinho or Giroud would not be forgiven for missing that chance; however, Ramsey gets a pass because he tries really hard. Watching Ramsey at right back and Per being chucked up front to get us an equalizer speaks volumes about our squad. I know there are ten games left, but this is depressing stuff.

  95. Ianmac

    Mar 04, 2013, 17:18 #32873

    Every team from Everton,Stoke,Reading to man utd spend what money they have to finish as high as they can. All except us, we gamble on spending just enough to finish 4th and save the rest. We've been lucky since 2006 and it worked but eventually you will come unstuck with this year looking like the year we will miss out. Look at blackburns results since they beat us., 2 nil loss to hull, 3 nil loss to Leicester, nil nil draw v Leeds at home and a 3-2 loss to Peterborough at home. How bad does that make us?

  96. GoonerGoal!

    Mar 04, 2013, 16:34 #32871

    @The Great Dictator. "Accept your fate. Or be destroyed by spectors of the past never to return..." Nothing I witnessed on Sunday came as any surprise. Almost everything that has come to pass since Day 1 of this season has been utterly predictable. The realists amongst us knew from the start, that while many paid lip service to the possibility of a top four finish, ultimately the whole of this season has really been about us competing for a UEFA Europa League spot. 5th to 8th place is exactly where this club, and this team, with this Manager, belongs at this moment in time, except I have much doubt that we will even make 5th. The only saving grace is that I already took the bitter pill of principle when reliqueshing the option of renewing my Season ticket last Summer. Give thought to that when Wenger/Kroenke/Gazidis/ ask you to hand them £1500 in the coming weeks, even while "the fear in their eyes betrays the lies on their tongues". DOWN with the JUNTA! VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

  97. mad max

    Mar 04, 2013, 16:25 #32868

    not posted 4 a while too depressed with it all,the time has come for everyone to boycott a few games until wenger has been dismissed.there,s a complete sense of malaise running through our once great club.the academy are not producing any talent,players have been leaving the club like a plague,Stevie Bould looks suicidal sitting next 2 inspector clueless.how much more evidence do you akb,s need 2 realise change has 2 come.i refuse 2 pay 62 quid to watch our so called rivals turn us over every time we meet. vive le revolution.

  98. Nickgooner4life

    Mar 04, 2013, 15:58 #32866

    I wasn't surprised at all by yesterdays result,i think like many fellow gooners,most of us thought we wasn't going to win.Yet again a tactically inept performance by our team and manager.Sure we had a fair amount of possession,but we created very few good opportunities.Why Giroud gets to start over Podolski is beyoned me,and i'm yet to see a good performance from Theo since he signed his new deal.Ramsey tries,but simply isn't good enough.And Arteta isn't a defensive midfielder,and playing him out of position doesn't help.The back 4 were absolutely awful apart from Jenkinson.We can't even get the basics of defending right,and Wenger still fails to recognise this.The goals we conceded were so soft and easy for Spurs it was frankly embarrassing.Theres no leadership or organisation in our back 4.Back to Giroud he's awful,sure he works hard,but he's a donkey who couldn't hit a barn door.He might have been good cover for RVP,but never good enough to be a replacement.Wenger bought Giroud after what 1 good season for Montpelier,what a frickin joke.The demise of our great club goes from strength to strength,and i'm way past the point of getting angry when we lose.I hope Silent Stan sells up and moves on,because he is killing our club and has no ambition whatsoever.And Wenger i have no defence for you anymore,8 years without silverware is unaccpetable.And his stubborness and lack of tactical awareness is frustrating to say the least.His constant refusal to buy proven quality players is a joke.How many flop signings has he made over recent years?.....numerous spring to mind.And it's no use Kroenke saying that there will be money available to buy new players,when it's looking less and less likely we'll get into the champions league.Plus whats the point when Wenger will most likely refuse to spend it,or buy more crap like he has done recently.Wengers constant delusions on how special this team is also baffles me,we are mediocre at best.Time for change,and that means a new owner and manager to move forward,because under this current regieme the facts don't lie,we are on a downward slope.Theres no way we can be successful with a passionless owner,and a stubborn,deluded,tactically inept manager.Who is also prepared to see our best players being sold year after year.Theres no way we can be successful like that!

  99. Mr T

    Mar 04, 2013, 14:36 #32861

    Arsene Wenger told journalists in his press conference last Friday that he does not do any specific preparation for opposing sides, he just concentrates on the game of his own team..........."wondered why Fergie now has you in his pocket Arsene!....Get real and alow others to have some import to your poor squard of players.

  100. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 14:20 #32859

    Spot on Kev,you can just hear the old fart now, getting up to give his speech with the aid of his zimmer frame,and along with the rest of the spin brigade attempt to tell us everything's rosy in the garden of Arsenal when it's clear to everybody even themselves that it's not, and blaming everybody but themselves.I really thought we could have gotton ourselves up for this match a lot better made a real effort,to give something back to the fans after Bradford and Blackburn,among others,after all we managed it in the home fixture.We had our usual share of possession (don't we always)and as usual could do nothing with it(whats new)where was the 100k a week man was he playing ? and the five attempts to score one, man giroud ? he only had two or three chances or half chances so needed a couple more before he actually scored, and even then it wouldn't be a certainty.As for the defence ? we've all been here before, Theo Jensen's spot on, pub league standard it's been like that for most of the season,and with a goalkeeper to match, who thought he was on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier directing jets of the catapult, for the first goal.Defeat to the enemy is bad enough but you know what is worse ? the fact that our mistakes, deficiencies,call them what you like won't be put right,and haven't been put right and that has been proved by the fact they keep happening over and over again.Any other manager would be on the training ground at the first opportunity trying to put them right,hell any other manager would have put them right not just months ago but years ago, but ours ? No, he just stumbles on like he has done for eight years now with the same old excuses hoping one day they'll/it'll all come good when the rest of us know it won't.The days when we had match winners like Bergkamp,Rocky,Henry,to call on and who we could rely on to score a goal when needed are long gone.As for the consortium bid who knows if it's real, who's behind it, way to early to tell if it's serious i'm sure we'll hear a lot more,and if it is serious could the DDT turn down that sort of dough and profit ? like the statement says he's unlikely to get it again.Maybe David Dein was right when he said in his interview in an article on here to expect big news or words to that effect.

  101. jjetplane

    Mar 04, 2013, 13:46 #32855

    Walcott, Wenger are like politicians fiddling the books. I hope the other W does leave. Any self-respecting player would. If the former were to be shown the door would Fabrigas and Nazri want back, cause they sure are in respective fixes at the moment. With all the money being talked about sloshing around Holloway (one of the most deprived areas in Europe) presently, I would rather not tell people my team bacause I am of what it has become. I have never been to the Emirates but know Arsenal as well as any old timer and the more I hear the less I want to go (if I could afford it). I hate rubbish like Wenger trying to lecture us about Arsenal. He is not one of us and anyone still fighting his corner well - perhaps they are the ones who should be following a team elsewhere. If Arsenal are just going to stay a corporate concern making money for the few, no wonder the real support were not Arsed about it yesterday.

  102. allybear

    Mar 04, 2013, 13:33 #32854

    James agree with you completely.The point to me is that when nothing changes then its down to the manager. He is a spent force and he barely acknowledged AVB at the end of the match. The drivel he talks i think he actually believes.What you say about the defence is spot on. Wenger out&good riddance.

  103. Andy M

    Mar 04, 2013, 13:24 #32853

    Bloody Ramsey was the worst of what was Arsenal amateur hour. He's either passing backwards or his last ball is dire. Shouldn't even be in the reserves. Giroud is trying too hard, Walcott and Podolski not hard enough. Patience may be a virtue but we've surely given Wenger enough by now. Change is needed and it's needed now.

  104. Steve Anderson

    Mar 04, 2013, 13:21 #32851

    I would have thought a Spurs fan would know how to spell 'losing' - illiterate little urchin.

  105. RDT - 4

    Mar 04, 2013, 13:00 #32847

    Could the takeover story be a plant by the spuds by any chance? Stranger things have happened and look at the timing. With such a lot riding on the game - they now look likely to qualify for CL, pocket £25 million, keep Bale and finish above us. Perhaps they saw it as a chance to stick the knife even further into Wenger when he's clearly rattled and fighting for his managerial life. Any new owner worth his salt would sack wenger in a nano second and the spuds know it. I've got zero actual evidence of course!

  106. Andy M. Odd

    Mar 04, 2013, 12:56 #32846

    So what if we're not as good as Tottenham? So what if we won't qualify for Europe? So what if we go another year without silverware? God - if you don't like it, go support a proper team...er....

  107. SilverGooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 12:50 #32845

    Surely, no honest Gooner can disagree with Kevin's sentiment that 'the team aren’t as good as they used to be, and as long as they don’t get the basics right, they are going to struggle'. Wenger is tactically clueless and whether we like it or not, Spurs are now better than us. Unlike our inept manager, they did their homework on us and the only real surprise was that Spurs didn't score more. As for us, we had one just shot on goal. We have now won just 13 out of 28 games and are 24 points behind the leaders. How anyone can still defend Wenger is beyond me. The man is a liabilty and he should be ashamed of himself for taking £7 million a year from the club!

  108. IMHO

    Mar 04, 2013, 12:41 #32844

    Arse boys should be proud of their performance on Sunday. They hung in there bravely and did all they can against a stronger team. It was a good performance, and Arse boys can take pride in loosing only by one goal. Great job by Arse boys. Cazorla+Podolski+WAlcott+Giroud combined do not still equal one Van Persie. MUHAHAHAHA... COYS!

  109. JER

    Mar 04, 2013, 12:38 #32843

    For Wenger to constantly say 'we make no specific plans for the opposition' is a sad indictment of his delusional attitude now. Does he think Ferguson, Mourinho, Mancini and even 'Arry do the same? It might have worked when you have Denis, Vieira, Henry, Pires etc in the team but not now with just average players. Tactically inept is an understatement!

  110. Steve Anderson

    Mar 04, 2013, 12:38 #32842

    Joe - the question isn't 'what were we watching' - it's what were you smoking? Ramsey is a joke. Can't pass, no pace, a passenger. What about his crossing? And his finish? Diabolical.

  111. Tony Evans

    Mar 04, 2013, 12:26 #32839

    Ron - I am the same and could hardly believe it. My head told me I should be caring but my heart was just not in it. Mainly because I have reached the stage where I will accept anything to rid the club of Wenger and perhaps Spurs have done us a favour in the long run. I think the club is reaching / has reached a crisis point and if something is not done soon it will be too late - perhaps it is already but a win at WHL would only have disguised the main issue.

  112. Dan h

    Mar 04, 2013, 12:02 #32838

    Yep lots of possession without product,defensive lapses,poor pressure to win the ball back & responding at 2-0 down.We all can't be wrong & that is not being wise after the event it has been repeated by many of us.I posted a couple of years ago Einstein & his quote on the definition of insanity it has never held true more than Arsenal this season.If this is one of the best squads we have had under OGL his words not mine what does that tell you about the manager himself & his performance?I highly doubt the story about Arab investment well timed lazy journalism at worst or maybe use of a third party that has shares but is not on the board.Who knows & at the moment i like many think who cares?The club may well get a suprise at the turnover of ST's & club level this year money talks.Anyway the club 'Thank you for your interest in our affairs'this season PHW shareholders meeting October 2012.

  113. GoonerRon

    Mar 04, 2013, 12:00 #32837

    Up to their first goal were you all saying we had it tactically wrong? We looked up for it in defence, pressed the ball well in the right areas and in doing so starved Bale of the ball, with Cazorla supplementing our presence in the centre to out number them and gain control of midfield. We were impressive up until two pieces of really bad decision making. In gifting the two goals we played straight into their hands and allowed them to counter-attack for the rest of the game. Watching it as dispassionately as possible, I just don't see them being better than us. It's not over yet, looking at the next 6 fixtures it could all change very quickly. I'm saving my assessment until the end of the season.

  114. au revoir wenger

    Mar 04, 2013, 11:16 #32836

    is steve bould happy just taking the money?or is he as useless as pat rice?

  115. chris dee

    Mar 04, 2013, 11:10 #32835

    We all knew what would happen. We have seen it time and time again over the last 7 years. A little pressure and we crack and if there is no pressure our defensive 'shield' would ensure that a primary school f*** up will gift the opposition goals. You do not need £30 million rated defenders to show the most basic duties of defending ,it requires a responsible manager to show the basic attributes of coaching to eliminate the horror show of 'defending ' we saw yesterday. How much longer does Arsene give himself as manager after 7 years of the same problem? We also have new buzz word to listen to,we've had 'mental strength''spirit' 'up for the fight'all total bo*****s of course,the new word is 'energy' which is how Arsene praised the players yesterday. It's been a long time since I have seen and Arsenal team so obviously split into cliques,again down to Arsene. It's also been over 50 years since a Spurs side from 1 to 11 had better players in every position,and that includes Jack at the moment. How has this been allowed to happen at the 5th richest,but least ambitious 'big' club in the world? I've just answered my own question.

  116. GG89

    Mar 04, 2013, 11:00 #32834

    Spurs one Marquee player and they are virtually in the Champions league.... The gooners no Marquee players and we´re 5th.... Does it make sense now not paying the top dollar for a game winer? Dont´t think so.... ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!

  117. billthered

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:58 #32833

    It is getting to something now that many of us dont really care when we are beaten,it just seems to be inevitable they have made us pig sick of the whole corporate affair.Get stuffed Stan, Ivan and PHW your dad must be turning in his grave along with Bob Wall(look him up).

  118. James

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:53 #32832

    A predictable result and scoreline.Spurs had a game plan we played our usual tippy tappy game.Yes we had loads of possession but all in the middle third of the pitch not the final third.Walcott played like a lot of us who thought we should have sold him always does in big matchs,he goes missing.How Wenger thinks he is better than Bale beggars belief.Giroud is hopeless he has scored ONE away league goal.This excuse about giving him more than one season we gave Squillaci Santos and Gervinho another season didnt we.The defence cant defend thats all you need to know.Under George the defence did drills every training session what do they do under Wenger and Bould play one touch 5 a side.Wenger has to go at the end of the season.Watching his Arsenal team is painful.By the way Arsenals wage bill is £50m higher than the Spuds.Vertonghan Dembele and Lloris were all available in the summer for us to sign but i havent managed for 30 years

  119. ppp

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:53 #32831

    Losing to Spurs is dreadful and I won't defend em this time.

  120. Cambridge Gooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:53 #32830

    Some of the decisions made by Wenger were beyond all conceivable reason! Why was Jenkinson taken off and replaced by Ramsey, it makes no sense whatsoever? Jenkinson, apart from being the second hardest working player behind Wilshere, was our most effective attacking player; I would have fancied him to score that chance over Ramsey. Why does Giroud think he's a football player?!?! I lost count of the amount of times he was caught up in midfield, giving the ball away with every touch... I love Olivier, but he is completely useless unless he's standing in the 6 yard box; even then, he tends to hit everything straight at the keeper. Where is the discipline and leadership to tell him to f***ing stay up front and play on the last line of defence?! To sum it up... The whole game was an incredibly frustrating display of how to hash up beating a Spurs team who were there for the taking, helped in no small part by completely inept management. Wenger Out!

  121. Red Member

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:34 #32829

    I watched the match in a pub on the Holloway Road. what was maybe most alarming was the way most supporters just accepted defeat. this is how Spurs fans have acted for years - numb resignation that their team was not good enough to win. Things must change now otherwise the spiral of decline will accelerate a lot faster than people may think

  122. jb

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:32 #32828

    I thought Jenkinson was our best player yesterday and he goes and takes him off. Unbelieveable.

  123. declan burke

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:21 #32827

    The rumoured takeover bid sounds promising, if of course it is anything more than a rumour that is. I wonder is this what David Dein hinted at a couple of weeks ago ? If it does materialise, we need not get excited unless the new owners decide to completely start afresh, starting with the removal of AW as manager. Am I asking too much ?

  124. Badgerhead

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:21 #32826

    Terrible preparation, tactically inept. How do people like Arteta and RAmsey look good when they are either (a) played out of position or (b) having to run all over the pitch to cover for the lazy-arse efforts of those in front of them. At least Ramsey doesn't hide, he puts his heart and soul into it, if Fergie had got him he would be performing to his strengths. I think it was Souness who said there are two Arsenal's one with the ball and the terrible one without the ball. It's coaching nothing else. Surely it's the manager's primary role to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. To recognise individual strengths and weaknesses and take the appropriate action. Wenger has to go

  125. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:18 #32825

    Watched the game online….we faffed around for 30 minutes, they score two carbon-copy goals, we score from a free-kick and then create nothing for the remaining 40+ minutes. Depressingly familiar….lost 1-2 at Man Utd, Chelsea and now Tottenham. You know, I really didn't care at the end either. I have given up with this current regime.....be glad when the whole rotten bunch is cleared out from top to bottom. Going to be 2/3 pretty grim seasons ahead at least.

  126. Bard

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:16 #32824

    Can't say I was surprised. Spuds gifted their 2 goals, game over. Loved Wenger's 'this team has something special' monologue. He's right; they're the worst we've seen in many a long year. The defensive shambles continues but now we have a willing donkey up front instead of a world class striker. I like Giroud's work ethic but he no more than a championship player. Wally's done zilch since we deemed him worth £100k a week. I've posted before but we are the new Liverpool in waiting. The nightmare scenario is that we will have endure a summer of Jack being tempted to pastures new with the offer of trophy success and shedloads of dosh. At present the club is going one and that down. Who will be the first to jump ship ?

  127. N4

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:15 #32823

    Firstly, we weren't good enough and we have to accept that spurs were better than us. Secondly, it wasn't all Bale show but the team as a whole as it wasn't Bale defending like lions. If the captain has automatic inclusion on the team sheet to play then things need to change on that too. I think Ramsey need to be cut a bit of slack here as I don't think he did too bad. I completely agree with your last paragraph. I wonder how much more are we going to endure this and when are we going to do some defence training!! It's funny that the players don't say how good Steve Bould is on the training anymore as he doesn't do any these days...or not allowed. Because I remember at the beginning of the season The defenders had clean sheets because of the training they were having with steve Bould. Something to think about!!!

  128. Rob

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:14 #32822

    I think the Club and we the fans have to accept the level the club is now at. The likes of Spurs have taken our place in the Premiership and therefore we cannot expect to beat them as we have been accustomed to. All things considered a 1-2 defeat at WHL is a good result, we're a poor side battling for this type of result. The sooner we accept this the better.

  129. don froth

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:04 #32821

    Can anyone suggest a reason why Ramsey has just been put on a 5 year deal? He can't play and he can't run! his chance near the end summed the weak little boy up!

  130. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 10:03 #32820

    On the potential takeover talk,at least it puts some pressure on the board. They have been sleepwalking towards this decline on the pitch for far too long.It's about time that someone at Arsenal stood up and took some responsibility for what's been going on.

  131. Joe

    Mar 04, 2013, 9:53 #32819

    Reading some of the replies I am amazed as I am sure that Ramsey played well, what were some of you watching? Taking of Jenkinson was sheer madness but expected from the manager with no clue!! Wenger has spent money on transfers and wages o the money issue is not an excuse, just his lack of tactical nous again. Kroenke should take the money and go, all he has ever wanted is a profit so here is the perfect chance to make a huge one and give us our club back

  132. Ron

    Mar 04, 2013, 9:50 #32818

    I just dont like to admit it, but the truth is that after following us from being a young boy, yesterday was the first NLD where i truly didnt care that we had lost. The only surprise was that it wasnt a heavier defeat guys! PS I saw better organised defending than Arsenals watching an old mate (hes 47, his 2 full backs are 32 and 40 ish and fellow centre defender 42) playing for his local Social Club on Sat afternoon!

  133. John Abrehart

    Mar 04, 2013, 9:49 #32817

    The club needs a shake up/clear out from top to bottom. 7th place would be my preference now to allow the club to put itself right on the field next season without the distraction of European football and the embarrassment of not being able to compete. What is amazing is the depth of the malaise at the club. There is literally no one pushing for a place from the youth ranks of reserve teams and the results of the nursery clubs is appalling. Liam Brady is leaving without an explanation; Bouldy just sits there glum faced and the body language of the management and players on the bench speaks volumes. My guess is that there a large amount of dissent behind the scenes, someone needs the courage to break ranks and the club should get to grips. We are becoming a laughing stock. The support the club gets from it's diehard fans makes all this even more galling. I believe that Peter Hill Wood is basically a decent chap with the best interests of the club in his heart of hearts. Come on Peter, sort it out!

  134. Gman

    Mar 04, 2013, 9:42 #32816

    Defence was an absolute shambles yesterday and why The Ox is not getting a start before Rosicky and Ramsey is incredulous?? The spuds won’t lose a 7 point lead on us this year, we can only hope for a chelski implosion!

  135. Ronster

    Mar 04, 2013, 9:32 #32815

    Chris,wherever you are,here's a stat you can stick shall I say politely in your note book....since Harry Redknapp selected his first line up away to Sunderland on 27th November,QPR have conceded one goal less than Arse-ne's mob in the league.

  136. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 9:17 #32814

    I think we should give Giroud a new nickname "Hercules" after Steptoe & Sons horse!

  137. Clive the Gooner

    Mar 04, 2013, 9:13 #32813

    Walcott and Giroud were awful, the defence went missing again and the decline continues. Still at least comatose kroenke is happy.

  138. Pete iSIngapore

    Mar 04, 2013, 9:03 #32811

    I am getting really bored of the same old rhetoric now..... profits, AKB, AMG, the players, the style of play..... I still watch I still listen but I no longer enjoy, I don't look forward to any game now, and I certainly avoid talking about AFC. For all the reasons mentioned in this article this ownership cycle is a disaster and the legacy of it may take a long time to recover from. Other clubs the size of ours have come and gone and fallen by the wayside and I cannot see how we will avoid that with Stan and Ivan eagerly counting their coins instead of their achievements. RIP AFC I still love you but your just not the same......

  139. Mark Rice

    Mar 04, 2013, 8:50 #32810

    We all knew it was coming! That sadly was Arsenals starting 11 yesterday, poor defending, tactically outdone in midfield, and Theo who is the worst example of a little boy that believed his own hype that he was a footballer, just how he stayed on the pitch for 90 minutes is anyones guess. We are not becoming Liverpool BTW we are becoming Villa .... when is the next black scarf day????????

  140. GoonGer

    Mar 04, 2013, 8:47 #32809

    Just not good enough.96minutes and not one shot on target!!The goal was a deflection.Put Rosicky on,yes,but to move Ramsey fullback was an insult to Jenkinson.He dropped Gervinho(probably under protest),please get rid of Ramsey.I know he wasnt the only one yeaterday,but he is consistently bad..Jack wasnt in the game either.Arteta flatters to deceive.As you say Kevin,I could go on and on "but whats the point"

  141. JJ Williams

    Mar 04, 2013, 8:29 #32808

    Team selection was terrible. Cazorla should have been playing through the middle. Podolski or Risicky should maybe have started instead of Ramsey (No brainer). Wenger should leave with the board at the end of the season. As for Kronke; I agree with @Peter wain - Do yourself a favour and take the arab Money.

  142. Tony Evans

    Mar 04, 2013, 8:22 #32807

    The first half was exactly like any number of matches played out since about 2007, namely lots of possession with no end product and school boy defending to gift the opposition a goal or two. The blind, stubborn arrogance of Wenger is breath taking and the boards reluctance to do anything about it shocking in the extreme. Oh but of course profits are OK so never mind the dross on the field and a manager that has completely lost his way. 'We don't make any special plans for our opponents' says Wenger, 'we just concentrate on our strengths'. I would love to hear him explain to us fans exactly what those 'strengths' are! Pathetic!

  143. Martyn

    Mar 04, 2013, 8:21 #32806

    I can't recall one shot on target from Arsenal. Like it or not, Spurs are on an upward curve with a manager who has something to prove and without the baggage carried by Harry when they imploded at the same time last season. The answer for Arsenal is not new ownership but a change of mindset at board level and a fresh manager. We all know it is not going to happen anytime soon but the very least we deserve is some strategic thinking on the field of play. Walcott since getting his £100,000 has been put back on the wing. I thought the whole issue was him wanting a central strikers role! Perhaps Wenger is getting his own back here, you've signed, now get back to where you were. Inept, crazy managership. Top four is still possible but if we don't make it let's hope we eventually avoid the top six and by doing so avoid the Europa League too. Time for serious rebuilding.

  144. Gaz

    Mar 04, 2013, 8:16 #32805

    Cant fault the effort from the players yesterday. Sadly they were let down by a manager who simply failed to prepare them properly-again. Money really isn't the issue here and it should not be used as an excuse for Wengers appaling lack of tactical nous. Thankfully I'm now so used to these performances and defeats I'm not really effected by them any more. Annoyed at the whole situation-yes, annoyed by the deeat-nah. Felt sorry for my 15 year old daughter though who still feels the pain of defeat and spent the next few hours after the game arguing with her sperz supporting mate!!! Bless.

  145. BNG

    Mar 04, 2013, 8:01 #32804

    Our midfield is a total dogs dinner and so the defence is only a reflection of the shambles in front of it

  146. ATID

    Mar 03, 2013, 18:59 #32799

    Replying on my way back from Spurs. We battled to the end but the quality isn't there. Time for a new manager and a new owner.

  147. Peter Wain

    Mar 03, 2013, 18:25 #32798

    N o surprie at the result or the performance. If you buy enugh sub standard players you get performances like this. Walcott and Giroud were awful. How one is worth £100k and the other a place in team defeats me. Still we were spared the sight of Gervinho in the club shirt. Better to push Mertsacker forward. Another wated season to be followed with another wasted transfer window. For our sakes Kroenke take the Arab money and go you have done nothing for the football team I follow except sell world class players and allow our manager to buy a succession of dross.