Upstairs Downstairs

Are you an upper or a lower tier type?



Upstairs Downstairs

The view from on high


In the current issue of The Gooner (on sale this Saturday v Villa), Howard Lamb writes on ‘The Ups and Downs of a Gooner’ to relay the tale of how he moved from his upper tier season ticket seat to a lower tier one in the summer of 2012. The writer decided after one season that he preferred life higher up and promptly moved back.

In the light of this, a couple of interesting stories reached me this summer, indicating a change of policy at the club. Firstly, season ticket holders are now allowed to downgrade more than one price band, as Howard did a year ago. This was confirmed by a pair of pals who moved from next to centre upper back seats to the lower tier this summer.

Additionally, people on the season ticket waiting list were previously only offered seats in the upper tier behind the goals. At the new stadium, these seats are terrifically over-priced in comparison with the price structure at other stadiums. If, for example, you went to a Champions League final, the lower tier pitchside seats are equal with the most expensive seats. Those in the upper tier behind the goal are much cheaper. At Arsenal, this is a rather warped legacy of the North Bank Stand at Highbury and the original pricing of North Bank non-bond tickets. And it’s crazy. Those sitting pitchside downstairs are not about to complain, but regards the season ticket waiting list, the suspicion is that the club were finding the goal uppers a hard sell to would be buyers, so have relaxed the policy and now offer seats anywhere – including apparently lower tier.

The demand is now at a level where the club have to be more flexible with the supply. I wonder how many seasons away we are from Joe Public simply walking up to the box office and buying a season ticket without the need to be on any waiting list? This could well be dependent on the success of the team.

Anyway, I don’t need to move downstairs for a season to know I prefer my pew in the East Upper. This is not to do with atmosphere, but my enjoyment of watching football with a good perspective on the patterns of play. When I am near the front of a lower tier stand at an away game, close to the pitch, and realise there are empty seats higher up, I will always make my way up the steps to enjoy a better view and gain a better overall picture of the game.

It’s a preference, and some prefer the more intense atmosphere of being closer to the play and the smell of the grass. However, I am with Howard on this one.

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43
comments

  1. Canterbury Gooner

    Aug 15, 2013, 10:32 #37451

    @Alsace spot on there mate- by all means stand up and celebrate if we score a goal but standing up every time we're in the opposition half is completely moronic. Imagine if people did that in the cinema every time the plot took a twist *facepalm*

  2. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Aug 15, 2013, 5:58 #37426

    Well I have stood on every side of the old Highbury and sat in every stand. I've sat in the Diamond Club in the new stadium and watched games from upper and lower tier. I have to say that I prefer the upper. I always enjoyed standing at Highbury and considered the standing fans more pleasant and knowledgeable that the curmudgeons in the seats. The situation is reversed at Asburton Grove where the people who stand and obscure the view of others as a deliberate policy want quietly removing to the standing areas in front of their televisions. Mind you, there would be no opportunity there to be publicly arrogant and unpleasant. I prefer to be able to shout and sing for the team and deliver polite and well intentioned advice about form P 45 to the bespectacled moron from the upper tier, where I stand if something obviously exciting happens and not otherwise. There is a distinction between the mental state of those arsenal supporters who enjoy and get involved in the game but want to watch it carefully, and those who want to "pose" by standing up in the seats. One group are proper Arsenal supporters and the others are, well I suppose morons really. There is a reason why we sit in all seater stadiums - the morons who can't behave themselves at a football match - the morons who killed people at Hillborough and Heysel. The price hikes which, to my absolute disgust, have removed many of the old standing supporters from the Stadium, have not, very sadly, removed those "supporters" who could not give a toss whether other Arsenal fans can enjoy the game. I would have them removed and taken to a place where they can listen to a 24 hour video loop of press conferences given by Arsene Wenger. After a day or two of that you could fit them with straight jackets and sit them down with a nice cup of lukewarm cocoa in the seats at the front of the lower tier from which they had previously been removed. Strap them in tightly and they wouldn't be a menace to anyone. The people behind them who are actually trying to watch the game, wouldn't notice any difference in their outward appearance - the fixed manic stare, the dribbling mouths, but would be able to see the game without standing up every 20 seconds.

  3. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 14, 2013, 22:44 #37423

    Canterbury Gooner, the statistics say it all. I may be wrong so don't quote me on this as i only read it myself, but i don't think you can just join the Diamond club no matter how much dough you have, you have to be invited. If so, why is anybody's guess as it's hard to imagine this club turning down anybodys £20k and then something similar on a yearly basis.

  4. Aug 14, 2013, 22:33 #37422

    steve...yes, wenger is responsible..he is the virtual ceo of AFC it seems...overseer, lord of emirates stadium, and seeing what a dyed breadhead, money merchant he is, I'VE NO DOUBT he sets tickets prices and the rest, beer and grub, shirts etc...as for your like it or lump it attitude..thats very stalinesque of you ...i'm sure the Russians hated being dictated to, and were not happy at all, true ARSENAL FANS have had enough of wengers stranglehold..time for a long overdue change...that's a happy thought..right?

  5. Steve

    Aug 14, 2013, 21:01 #37420

    So now wenger is also responsible for designing our soulless and ugly stadium.... Get a life... And support your team.. Or stay at home if its so bad. You can't buy happiness.

  6. Canterbury Gooner

    Aug 14, 2013, 20:37 #37419

    Completely agree with RDT - 4. Makes an especially good point about upper tier being for the quieter fans, which is fine in my opinion- each to their own. I think I read from a good source that the maximum capacity for Highbury with expansion would have been 48,000. Don't forget though that the new stadium is worth a lot more than just 12,000 seats. Club level has 7000 seats costing several thousand pounds each year. Then there are the 150 hospitality boxes priced at £65,000-150,000 per year AND 84 members of the Diamond Club who pay £25,000 just to join, and I think £12,500 per year thereafter. Matchday revenue is £3.2m per match, overall making us the fourth highest in that revenue stream in the world. We also only pay £19m per year back after interest (a fraction of the club's turnover) so it was definitely worth it.

  7. HowardL

    Aug 14, 2013, 19:53 #37418

    Kev - thanks for the support. I too was on the North Bank for the 1970 Fairs Cup Final and must agree with Martyn that for enduring atmosphere it remains the benc.mark. In my mind, whenever I wish to escape reality, I can close my eyes and still picture John Radford rising above the Anderlecht defence. Just think, a whole lifetime's commitment encapsulated in one sublime moment - what's that truly worth? That's not to denigrate Tony at Highbury, Freddie in Cardiff and Ray at WHL but for me too Raddy's moment is still the tops - and I probably moved to the Lower Tier in an attempt to recapture that. But as I wrote in my article, if people insist on standing at crucial moments ..... I can't f****** see!

  8. Greenwich Gooner

    Aug 14, 2013, 19:27 #37417

    As a club, we're completely dependent on match day revenue as the commercial deals aren't a high enough % of revenue, and lack of success reinforces that. So it's wishful thinking that there wouldn't be a large club level with insane prices. Just wondered if we couldn't shift the away fans to upstairs (while charging them downstairs prices) and maybe have an AKB section? (:-) )

  9. RDT - 4

    Aug 14, 2013, 16:41 #37413

    I really don't think the stadium is the problem - I like the design. You have the singers on the lower section, the quieter people who want to sit and just watch the match upstairs, and the posh people in the middle! With a choice of behind the goal or sides for everyone. It's up to the fans to generate noise and the bowl design keeps the noise inside. I remember some pretty silent days at Highbury where singing would fizzle out quicker than an Arshavin run as the sound disappeared through the yawning gaps between the stands. I too miss Highbury but it wasn't possible to stay. The east and west stands were both listed and even if the weren't the only option would be to pull them down and start again. Then it's not really Highbury anymore is it? Plus it was so hemmed by houses and public roads, there would be a limit to the size of the stands anyway. You could try and leave them there and fill in the corners, but this would have been architecturally awkward and only have added a few thousand more capacity. Might as well just start again in a less residential area, i.e Ashburton Grove. We've got a great stadium and fans, it's just personnel that's the problem. The sooner the manager and board are replaced the better. Then we can all concentrate on supporting the team again and finally land some SILVERWARE for the empty trophy cabinet!

  10. Man United Killer

    Aug 14, 2013, 15:25 #37412

    Green H,Canterbury G & SKG,like Ron said I wouldn't bother with Jamie.He is obviously one of those fans can't see past Wenger.Nothing anyone will say makes a darn difference. Please dont waste your precious time

  11. Ron

    Aug 14, 2013, 13:07 #37411

    S.K.G - Youre wasting your energy on the hapless oaf 'Jamie' mate. Hes an idiotic troll, who deems any other team apart from a Wenger created one to be hoofball merchants. Hes incredibly often on record as classifying past Utd teams and even Liverpools best teams down the decades as such! A no hoper mate. Best ignored.

  12. ApolloGooner

    Aug 14, 2013, 13:01 #37410

    Ron 11:55am Ron – great post mate. I agree with every word and fair point about the air flow to the pitch. Also, I’m glad to see someone else support the idea that staying at Highbury was feasible. So many times I am told we had no choice but I refuse to accept that as a fact because there is nothing concrete to support it. We know now that the Emirates was sold to us with lies. There was the one where we would compete with Europe’s elite which looks laughable in hindsight. And there was the lie that it was something noble – as it was allowing an additional 20,000 to attend games. This is true in terms of numbers but the reality is that many of the people who couldn’t get to Highbury have also been priced out of going to the Emirates regularly so it has made little difference to their chances of attending games. I share your view that the extra seats have not necessarily been filled with what I would call real supporters in the traditional sense. Customers yes - but seeing them true Arsenal fans is questionable. The people at club tell us they did everything they could to remain at Highbury. It sounded dubious when they said it but at the time there was no real reason to disbelieve them. However, knowing now how deceitful they are capable of being and how greedy and self-serving they are, I think there is every reason to believe they lied to us about that too. Give me a 50,000 redeveloped Highbury over the 60,000 Emirates every time. The stadium project was about ego’s legacies and personal gain more than it was for the benefit of the hardcore supporters. Sadly and tragically there is no going back!

  13. Radfordkennedy

    Aug 14, 2013, 12:59 #37409

    I'm hoping that the somewhat sterile and to be honest nervous atmosphere at the emirates will change when we do eventually have a glory night there.Personally I was a clockender back in the day so I prefer to be close to the opposing fans to enjoy a little light hearted banter.ifi could make a suggestion to the club it would be the opening of a non stop eating drinking and pissing section so as to allow the rest of us to watch the game without being part of a perpetual mexican wave...just a thought

  14. Seven Kings Gooner

    Aug 14, 2013, 12:57 #37408

    Jamie : The tippy tappy football started when Henry left & Bergkamp retired. To accommodate Cesc and the new era Wenger bought in players like Helb, Rosicky & Nasri all good on the ball but easily knocked of the ball. Wenger's 1998 team played blinding counter attacking football that destroyed teams in a 15 - 20 minute spell, catch the 4-0 home win against West Ham. Then the experienced players Adams, Bergkamp,Dixon Winterburn saw the game out. That style was in the tradition of Arsenal - as Chapman once said "You can attack too often" As for the future, I saw Colchester United's youngsters thrash our Academy team 5-1 last night and it could have easily been eight, this kind of playing style and ethos is what so many of us are fighting against. Colchester had much more heart and desire than Arsenal, who had some players that are being hugely talked up by our spin department. We were defensively naïve and on last night's showing these so called stars of the future aint gonna make it! Remember Colchester (who I now watch on a regular basis) survive on gates of 3,000 +, they played us of the park, not with possession and guile but will heart and balls!

  15. Ron

    Aug 14, 2013, 12:45 #37407

    Jamie - If i thought you were worth the bother, id respond in full. As it is, i dont really need to as every post you make betrays to those who do bother with you, that fact that youre a prize chump, who i seriously doubt gets to many games.

  16. Del Boy

    Aug 14, 2013, 12:24 #37406

    Jamie...what a plonker!

  17. JAMIE

    Aug 14, 2013, 12:01 #37404

    @Ron.You couldn't be further from the truth in 'Wenger trying to be like Barca' In fact Wenger was playing this total football long before Barca. In fact Barca would often take our rejects. Petit and Overmars (too old) Van Bronckhorst (not good enough). Also I'd watch your spelling or Mr Green Hut will be after you with his red pen. I bet you two are a real pair of groovy characters from the 1960's sitting there in the West Stand Upper with your flask of Rosie lea and half time oranges. saying. 'Humbug to Wright, Humbug to Mee, Humbug to Neill, Humbug to Howe, Humbug to Graham, Humbug to Rioch and a Double Humbug to Wenger.

  18. Ron

    Aug 14, 2013, 11:55 #37403

    Apollo - Its not a nice place, i agree. Ive some doubts as to the extent that Wenger had any input into its structural features apart from maybe stating that the pitch needs air flow, hence the massive dropped areas at the back of the top tiers and the dressing rooms etc. You ll recall that Old Trafford was having massive problems with their pitch at the time and the lack of air flow through the stadium was blamed, hence the look of Arsenals stadium being as it is. Youre right though, its a theatre for gigs and conferences in the main and the football is in many of its aspects secondary. For sure, catering for the well heeled has been uppermost in Arsenals mind, ever since that stadium was just a blueprint in an architects office. The management of the Club since has just re inforced this view for me. Highbury extended to 50,000 would have been just as good and doable too. The plans were alL there to do it and offfered up as a prospect. Yes, 10,000 seats less, but lets face it, who has filled those 10,000 seats? Not real supporters in my view. £ signs blinded the Clubs powerbrokers 12 years ago and its getting worse and worse.

  19. ApolloGooner

    Aug 14, 2013, 11:24 #37402

    @ Hibeegunner 17:59pm I believe you are correct. Wenger did have a say in the design. Certainly he did with things like the dressing rooms. As far as I’m concerned the design is all wrong. There should be no upper tier and lower tier - not around the whole stadium anyway. It is supposed to be a football stadium but the Club Level (aka circle of indifference) shows that it is a corporate stadium first and foremost. A multi-purpose arena suitable for concerts and conferences and not just the sacred home of Arsenal FC. A ring of executive boxes cuts off the top tier and the lower tiers are too shallow. We should have had a Kop stand behind one goal, if not both. The Emirates is a characterless monstrosity that I feel nothing for. It sums up so much of what is wrong with modern day football and with Arsenal in 2013. It is not a football stadium. It lacks intimacy and it has no soul.

  20. Ron

    Aug 14, 2013, 11:18 #37401

    Redshirtswhitesleeves - I think youve just summed it all up mate - 'tippy tappy plyers with zero bollocks'. Thats been the case certainly for at least 5 years and ends the debates about Arsenal's present situation for me. It all emanates from Wengers delusion that he could create 'Barca lite' and then bolt his concept onto english football on the cheap of course. Hes ignored the fact that Barca dont carry 'shrinking violet' feeble types as we have for so long. Im sure he thinks he still can still do it, thats the root of the problem at the Club.

  21. Redshirtswhitesleeves

    Aug 14, 2013, 8:08 #37400

    Maguiresbridge- couldn't agree with you more mate, sadly that type of player, sublime skill with end product or shear will to win and that over my dead body attitude will not be seen again under this regime of penny pinching and obsession with second rate tippy players with zero bollocks. Can't wait for the day we get a manager and some players in with proper arsenal values though I fear that day is light years away

  22. manolo

    Aug 14, 2013, 3:19 #37399

    LEEAFC is so right....stop moaning and cheer your team for a change....lower tier's view probably not as great but people supports their team there happens...encouraging our team no matter what! and guess what it is great fun too...if you want such a good view stay at home....you can't buy happiness

  23. Canterbury Gooner

    Aug 14, 2013, 0:32 #37398

    Jamie the only cultists are the AKBs- they're the ones who defend Wenger no matter what. AMG numbers are increasing. It's in so many cases now the fans of Arsenal vs the (SPaG opposing) fans of Arsene...

  24. JM - London

    Aug 13, 2013, 23:00 #37397

    Agree fully with Preston Gooner. It's not cos we don't want to sit downstairs - I much, much prefer it, and I pay less, but upstairs is usually all that is available and at a ridiculous price (read past the AFC cheaper tickets crap). I recall one game last season (Chelski I think) quoted us £88 each in the upper tier where we could neither afford or didn't want to sit. Now I'm not exactly destitute, but bring on the carling cup!

  25. Green Hut

    Aug 13, 2013, 22:53 #37396

    JAMIE- I assume that was a humorous reply as there were three grammatical errors in the first two lines. No problem with no trophies, it happens, we won one cup in my first fifteen years of going to Highbury. I just want the manager to use all the resources available in the pursuit of glory, that's all. Otherwise, what's the point?

  26. JAMIE

    Aug 13, 2013, 22:15 #37395

    OK, Mr Green Hut English teacher,Iv'e had a long day. I suppose your one of those who has gave up your season ticket for lack of silverware, with the excuse that Wenger's a busted flush. I've heard there are some AMG's who have even gone as far as purchasing season tickets at the Bridge.

  27. Green Hut

    Aug 13, 2013, 21:38 #37394

    JAMIE- Us 'dyeing breads' would probably take you AKBs more seriously if you could spell.

  28. JAMIE

    Aug 13, 2013, 20:51 #37393

    I always find the best atmosphere is anywhere as far away as any AMG's as possible. Listening to these light-weight Goons moaning and blubbing and bigging up their cult leader Adrian Durham is enough to drive a man insane. Luckily these fools are a dyeing bread and are becoming less by the year.

  29. lee afc

    Aug 13, 2013, 20:29 #37392

    Please....please...please....peter wain.go away and haunt someone else. This coming season does not require you to be a goona. It is a fresh start to a season. Get behind the arsenal until it goes sour. Folk like you are the reason why 'the gooner' is in decline........negative..negative and non supportive, pathetic, waste of space.......please reply because it pains me that people like you can state 'i am a gooner' !!!!

  30. Greenwich Gooner

    Aug 13, 2013, 19:02 #37391

    (ex) Red Member - got a seat where I could. Best seat/atmosphere ever was front row of the upper tier vs Spurs. Generally the bottom of the upper tier or towards the back of the lower tier would be my preferred spots, as you can see and the atmosphere's better. Right at the back of the upper tier is awful. All it's good for is some aerobic exercise climbing the stairs. I also thought the lack of noise was due to stadium design until the Germans came visiting.

  31. Green Hut

    Aug 13, 2013, 18:40 #37390

    Block 3 perfect for me, can join blocks 4, 5 and 6 in singing for the team, and then hurl abuse at Wenger when it's clear they've been taught absolutely nothing by him on the training pitch. Last season for me though if he signs a new contract, a man can only take so much.

  32. Rocky RIP

    Aug 13, 2013, 18:06 #37389

    I've sat in numerous spots around the stadium. I'm staggered that people pay more to sit upstairs. A better perspective on the game? Yes, but the further back you are the less connected you feel to the players and the action. Marooned in some cases. You can shout at a player but it's highly unlikely there'll here your 'man on!' cry. If you can't see the player's faces, hear the ball thud against the post or feel like you are influencing a corner, what's the point? Also, the exit process from the lower tier is so much better. Lower tier is so much better, although along the sides, very far down, the view isn't so great. Why managers sit where they do is unfathomable. It's impossible to read the game from there. The ideal spot is towards the back, behind the goal, in the lower tier. Best blocks? Block 5 and 6 by a mile. Anyone who appreciates a better atmosphere, request REDaction move you in there. I didn't sit once for the entire match when I went in there and sang all game.

  33. Hibeegunner

    Aug 13, 2013, 17:59 #37388

    The 1970 Fairs Cup the atmosphere was electric happy memories. Re the new stadium did Wenger not have a say in the design as he seems to have his fingers in everything.

  34. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 13, 2013, 17:47 #37386

    Apart for a better view upstairs i don't think it matters where you sit in terms of atmosphere, apart for the couple of games a season against the usual suspects which we get ourselves up for, and more often than not that depends if we're winning. I've sat in pretty much every part of the ground upstairs and down and there's no real difference, as i've said it depends. Until we have a team capable of getting us off our feet for every game and not have us panicking even if we're three up, nothing will change, and until we have players who can do the same with individual skill the likes of DB,IW,TH, to name just a few, who can get us of our feet as soon as they get the ball no matter what part of the pitch their in, and players like TA,MK,LD,PV, even when they just put in a tackle, (all not likely any time soon) but even then you can expect a shout of SIT DOWN from the JCL'S who wouldn't know real talent and a proper piece of skill if it were staring them in the face.

  35. Martyn

    Aug 13, 2013, 17:08 #37385

    Agreed, nothing tops so far the 1970 Fairs Cup Final in the North Bank for enduring atmosphere. John Radford is God!

  36. Ron

    Aug 13, 2013, 14:00 #37382

    Quillie - Absolutely right fella. a diet of dainty lightweghts playing unsuccessful, non physical, no shoot, tip tap, feint and touch for 7/8 years has stunted the passion somewhat.Can you write in and tell Wenger please as non of us have ever worked half a day in football and our views are groundless and futile! Of course its the team that whips up the fervour. Its a 2 way street to an extent, but the team needs to invoke and instill belief into those in the stands of which theres been very little at Arsenal since we moved to the glass bowl.

  37. Quillie

    Aug 13, 2013, 13:35 #37379

    You think the atmosphere's bad at Arsenal? You should try going to a Watford game! Gianfranco Zola even mentioned it in an interview he did with Talksport yesterday. I've been to a few games at the Emirates where the atmosphere was great, and a few where it was terrible, and, guess what, it was all to do with how well the team was playing. I've always said that if the team plays well, or if it's just an exciting game generally, it doesn't matter where you are, the fans make a noise. Perhaps the real reason for the generally morbid atmosphere at the Emirates is the lack of silverware!

  38. Preston Gooner

    Aug 13, 2013, 12:45 #37377

    As a Red Member, I have to sit wherever I can get a ticket, which is more often than not the upper tier. Yes you do get a much better view but I would always trade that for better atmosphere in the lower tier. If I have to sit in the clock end upper tier, I am usually surrounded by tourists who spend the entire game taking photos and talking on their phones.

  39. Jamie M

    Aug 13, 2013, 12:26 #37376

    Having sat in both (season ticket in Block 98 for first 2 years at the ground, Block 13 ever since), I can safely say I much prefer the lower tier. The upper tier where I sat was full up of people who just sat on their hands for 90 minutes and would yell ''Sit daaaan' any time someone slightly moved up from their seat. Couldn't stand the people up there any longer so moved to the lower tier and have found it really enjoyable. Everyone gets involved and you can have a good chat with pretty much anyone about the game, or the club in general. Granted the view isn't as good but you can still see everything.

  40. Graham Simons

    Aug 13, 2013, 11:58 #37375

    I don't care where I sit. The secret is I couldn't care less whether someone wants to pay their money and sit in silent - I'm sure me singing on the top of my voice annoys them but you know what? if you don't like the noise, don't go to football.

  41. Aug 13, 2013, 11:53 #37374

    North Bank April 70 Fairs Cup Final - that for me is the benchmark for atmosphere at an Arsenal game. Best night ever at Highbury. As you say Ron we have'nt had enough crunch games at the new ground to really judge. Still if you want to finish of the odd book between all that "pass & move" football the upper tier seems the place to go.

  42. Ron

    Aug 13, 2013, 11:12 #37372

    MG - Its like a morgue up there. Seen a few games there and the further back you go, you can doze off peacefully. I did v Blackburn Rovers in the Cup 3-4 years back during a dreadful 0-0 there. The atmosphere in the stadium is pretty bad upstairs and down, lets be honest, unless its the odd crunch game of which we ve not had many there yet. The stadium isnt designed for atmosphere though. All those gaps at the very back/top dont help and the pitch is too far away so theres a big disconnect beteen the play and the fans. The sound the fans do make just gets swallowed by the vastness of the stadium. Lovely stadium in terms of views and vista, but it will always be pretty dead due to its design.

  43. Moscow Gooner

    Aug 13, 2013, 6:43 #37369

    I am not saying that the lower tier (North Bank) atmosphere is magnificent but - never having sat in the upper tier - my impression is that 'upstairs' people sit (never stand) and politely applaud (or more likely quietly boo) during the game: fair comment? A replica of the old West Stand Upper. On that basis would never ever want to be up there if the seats were half price...