Suggestion of a Truce and Time

How about a bit of wait and see?



Suggestion of a Truce and Time


When we lost the first game of the season against Aston Villa those of us who have wanted Wenger out for some time said - we told you so. Then we went on a run of victories to put us top of the league and the supporters of Wenger said - we told you so. Then we lost two cup games in the space of a week along and the Wenger detractors said - I told you so. As we beat Liverpool on Sunday the AKB’s shouted we told you so – but it would have been a vice-versa scenario if we had lost.

Surely the only sensible standpoint for both sides of the argument is to reserve final judgment until at least further on into the season? Some people will say that eight years without a trophy is time enough, and that’s a fair point. But the start the team has made to the league season has surely earned the management and playing staff the right to be judged later in time. After a handful of games, I’ve seen both sides of the debate totally jump the gun. Wenger is not going anywhere until at least next summer, so we may as well stick together until then and make a judgement which will hold far more merit.

I’m coming from the side of someone who would have liked to have seen a change in manager at least a couple of years ago (not to mention the owners). If at the end of this season, an AKB tells me - I told you so, then that’s water off a duck’s back compared to more glory at the Bridge. I want to be proved wrong rather than see Chelsea rise to 5 league titles and us to remain on 13. Due to the £10 tickets, Tuesday night last week was the first Arsenal-Chelsea match I have attended since the Highbury years. I found it horrible to watch the Chelsea fans walk around our manner with a swagger and cockiness that years ago could not be backed up - now it can. Okay they’ve got a mediocre history but they don’t seem to be too bothered about that as they ask us the question: have you ever won the European Cup? If we can win the league this year, and it’s possible, we’ll eat that humble pie and enjoy it.

In turn, if the team goes another year with no silverware and too many signs of weakness, then the Wenger loyalists have surely got to be open-minded about change. More than anything else, they need to stop calling those who do believe in change ‘fake Arsenal fans’ or come out with nonsense such as “Go and support someone else.” Not only is such an accusation insulting to people who are true Gooners, but it’s also not an argument.

The argument here is that we really don’t truly know how good this Arsenal team are just yet. And when I say ‘good’ the measuring stick is genuine title challengers. Gone should be the days when 4th place is considered a good season. Wenger has chosen to stick mostly with the same players who have won nothing in the previous seasons. This may be complacency and a huge mistake. On the other hand it may be a smart move as the team know each other well and are gelling better than before (for example Ramsey has got better with experience). I don’t know how it will fare, but I’ll make no predictions and reserve judgment until the second half of the season.

Matthew Bazell is the author of Theatre of Silence: The Lost Soul of Football.


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60
comments

  1. Jason B

    Nov 11, 2013, 0:27 #41555

    Wait and see.This is what Ramsey and Girourd were doing this afternoon.Waiting for someone else to pick up RVP instead of taking responsibility themselves.

  2. Tommy

    Nov 09, 2013, 22:58 #41545

    Those who I have met who want Wenger out seem the most ridiculous pea brained, simpleton, halfwit, tadpole todgered, dumb ass money funsters you could care to meet.

  3. Kayode

    Nov 09, 2013, 20:09 #41544

    JJB,you talk like a kid, goddamn know if I'm true. Fans will always be what they are,opinions differ, and you shoulda known that instead of ranting the whole place with ur worthless speech. Unlike you,people love to frown at things that's obviously going wrong. I rest my case here when you couldn't even get the main context of the post

  4. BADARSE

    Nov 09, 2013, 17:38 #41543

    I'll drink to that maguiresbridge. They would be in a real dilemma. Theseare the possible ramifications of a change of manager. Older heads remember the great Cloughie being unseated by the Bremner-Leeds mutiny. So the fans have to be won over whilst holding onto the reins of team control. A defeat tomorrow putting them 11 points behind, I believe, would make the championship retaining almost impossible. Then the murmurings could build. Chelsea and Everton dropping 2 points today is part of the enjoyed luxury we have in amassing points, despite opposition we have met.

  5. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 09, 2013, 17:10 #41542

    BADARSE, i also hope he fails and their plunged into turmoil and lets hope it all starts tomorrow.

  6. BADARSE

    Nov 09, 2013, 12:19 #41541

    CT, Ron, maguiresbridge. I think the answer was much simpler and less of a secret agenda by Ferguson. I think they want someone balanced, composed and there for the long haul, ergo Moyes. He will be there for a long time if he can weather the undercurrents working against him from the fans. I hope he fails because it will become a merry go round for them in replacing him. I just think Mourhino is such an egoist that he could throw his arms in the air and walk away at any time. He is wise enough to know you can lose the dressing room easily, and that is the beginning of the end in terms of player influence. Moyes still holds the dressing room at the moment.

  7. Pete Mountford

    Nov 08, 2013, 19:20 #41535

    This is one of the most sensible balance pieces i have read on here about this issue. I've been an AMG increasingly since 2009, but the sustained signs are -initially since the start of last season- and particulalry since march that there has definitely been a change in approach without the ball, and the players growing as a unit added to quality like Ozil on top. So I'm opened minded at the moment. but I think how a fan reacts and views the current 'scene' is based upon personality type as to whether you take the balanced 'wait and see approach' or are a black/white person who sees things like canada Gooner. for me the very minimum is close to winning the league as in being in with a shout 3 games to go, but as i said bear minimum is that

  8. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 08, 2013, 17:29 #41528

    Ron, your dead right old red nose had a hand in who replaced him alright just as OGL will, he didn't want someone coming in who would over shadow him and steal his thunder not for a few years anyway, lets hope OGL doesn't think along the same lines. And just like Blair he's still coining it in.

  9. Ron

    Nov 08, 2013, 16:58 #41527

    CT - So was i mate. Ive a theory and it may be outlandish but here it is. I think Ferguson took a hand on the tiller of that Moyes appointment so to ensure that a lightweight got the job and make it certain that his exploits in the post were not overshadowed and exceeded fairly rapidly.Basically, Moyes is his patsy, put there to fail in effect and when he does Taggart can smugly sit there thinking 'Im irreplcaeable and look how theyre missing the wonderful me' Those idiot Yanks have let him influence things rather than doing their job. Moyes has inherited just a few top players there, many of the rest are shot and Taggart got out knowing it. Its like Blair waited and waited till the labour party was a busted vessel before he handed it over to Brown, listing to oblivion and sinking fast. Ive seen this type of thing happen in businesses where they appoint high placed managers to fail.Taggart is a total sh-t whos somehow been elevated to sainthood. Hes just a bullying ignorant shipyard yobbo who knows how to use a hammer to do everything and nothing else. Moyes may well regret ever going there.I so hope we stuff them on Sunday !

  10. CT Gooner

    Nov 08, 2013, 16:06 #41525

    I hear you Spaced, but who really thought Moyes should get that job? I would not see an individual of that quality as a step in the right direction for Arsenal, as the majority of Utd fans weren't cheering his arrival. But I don't hear too many moans at Chelsea! I was shocked UTD didn't have Morinho lined up to replace Fergie.

  11. Spaced

    Nov 08, 2013, 14:29 #41522

    It certainly didn't come across as impartial as you may have intended Matthew. -- As for wanting rid of a great manager, be careful guys, Man U have just lost a great manager... let's see what happens there (as a precedent).

  12. Matthew Bazell

    Nov 08, 2013, 13:58 #41521

    Don't usually comment on my own articles. But the chap accusing me of trying to split the fan base whilst not even reading the article. The whole point of this article was to do the very opposite of that!! I'm saying we could come together to support the team and reserve judgement until later. You don't agree with that?

  13. ApolloGooner

    Nov 08, 2013, 10:34 #41503

    JJB 16:04pm I'm puzzled how can you say this article is idiotic and rubbish if you stopped reading before the end of the first paragraph. How does that work? As for accusing Matthew of trying to split the fanbase, the sad fact is that the fanbase has been split for a good few years regardless of what anyone on here says or doesn't say. Personally, I agree with the sentiment of this article. There is no doubt things are looking a lot better right now than was expected and the Dortmund result and performance was like something from George Graham's time. But if we're still in contention to win the PL and / or CL come the end of March, the games during April and May will bring with them a totally different kind of pressure to what games in the first half of the season do. So until we have seen how the team and squad cope with that period, I think it is premature to believe things have finally been turned around.

  14. BADARSE

    Nov 08, 2013, 9:02 #41499

    @JJB, you are my main man!

  15. JJB

    Nov 07, 2013, 16:04 #41473

    Idiot article, abostlute rubbish. As soon as you used the term "AKB" I didnt bother reading....when will fans like you learn? You are so narrow minded and ignorant that you have this compunction to split the fan base in two! In the words of chris rock...."I got some stuff Im liberal about, and some stuff Im conservative about"....only fools and luddites have to put things into 2 boxes, the world must be such a simple place seeing everything in black and white! You dont understand the problem mate so please stop with your drivel...

  16. CT Gooner

    Nov 07, 2013, 14:57 #41457

    @Benny2 I'd take Flamini any day over Arteta! In the current squad I see Arteta as a good back up. As for all those hailing Wenger as the best thing since sliced bread and the saviour of old school football economics, where have you been the last 5 years? When have we actually competed? We've had the highest ticket prices in the world now for a long time, and two of the richest owners in Football, yet we have to hear arguments about why we can't compete. I'm glad we're competing this year, I'm glad a player I've openly rubbished for years has come good (sorry Arron), and I feel Arsene has been a far better example for our club in his media interactions, a major problem for me in previous years. Who can't say they've been embarrassed as fans to hear his post game rants! All in all, I'm a very happy Gooner right now, but this doesn't make me forget what I've gone through, just gives me patience to weather the ups and downs of a season without going over the top. Which brings me to Matthew's point, lets hope the board wait til after March to decide on who will guide the club toward future glory.

  17. Declan Burke

    Nov 07, 2013, 8:32 #41392

    So much written and said in the past weeks but this is a really excellent summary,very well put indeed. For what it's worth, I am one of those who had snapped and lost it with Wenger and the club's policy, but I absolutely salute the boss for the new found belief within the club, I can't get away from the fact that the opening day defeat v. Villa was a massive massive moment. If ever losing a game was a positive thing in the long run, surely this was it ?

  18. Sammutti

    Nov 07, 2013, 3:05 #41387

    Hey man! Just enjoy what they r producing right now. No time to regurgitate an old debate. It's time for football .

  19. Mike Walsh

    Nov 06, 2013, 23:33 #41386

    Do the "fans" who write these comments attend the games? do they want Arsenal to win their games? are they only happy when they have a scape goat to pick on and blame? Are they all miserable bastards who should "be" off and support spurs alongside all the other nasty and vindictive low life at the lane.

  20. Pete

    Nov 06, 2013, 23:13 #41385

    Arsene - sign da ting! Pleeeeease... John has said it all. Quite surreal reading the comments on this posting (and the posting itself). Are you all living in a parallel universe?!

  21. Gooner in exile

    Nov 06, 2013, 23:00 #41384

    Excellent prediction Danny I hope you had a few quid on the 4-0

  22. CanadaGooner

    Nov 06, 2013, 22:42 #41383

    Excellent result; well done to the lads. Are we going to win the CL? unlikely. But will this sort of victory help boost confidence and perhaps help us in the premiership quest? ABSOLUTELY!For those jumping out of the woodwork: NO, this result does not vindicate 8 wasted years. But it still is, an awesome result, and Giroud yet again, phenomenal!

  23. Ron

    Nov 06, 2013, 22:18 #41382

    Another lucky win for lucky arsenal and a lucky lucky Coach!!! Great stuff from the guys. Excellent win for our Club. Manure game more vital though!

  24. Benny2

    Nov 06, 2013, 22:06 #41381

    Flamini isn't the be all and end all you know. Arteta is just as influential he just has different qualities.

  25. John

    Nov 06, 2013, 21:49 #41380

    Wenger Out! The man is past it obviously.

  26. BADARSE

    Nov 06, 2013, 21:46 #41379

    Borussia 0 Arsenal 1.

  27. Paul Adams

    Nov 06, 2013, 21:44 #41378

    What the F%%^ just happened!

  28. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Nov 06, 2013, 21:44 #41377

    Westlower you are right. Excellent competent defensive performance combined with excellent passing under pressure on the attack. Pressing and closing down in all areas of the pitch is very noticeable. Huge confidence boost going into sunday and Flanimal may be fit for that as well.

  29. Westlower

    Nov 06, 2013, 21:38 #41376

    WELL, HOW ABOUT THAT!!!!!!!!!

  30. Goontown

    Nov 06, 2013, 20:47 #41375

    John, AVB has led a spurs team who finished 1 point behind us FOR 2 seasons with less money than wenger to spend. Done the treble in Portugal 1st season in charge. I am not a spud. But look what is out there wenger has been very poor last 8 years and it is a fact that there was money to spend to compete for quality players on same level as other top clubs in Europe. All you have to do is look at the numbers been published and how monies have been distributed at the club. Just understand when Wenger delivers it will be a joy for all arsenal fans.... BUT he has NOT and we are in 2013

  31. John Gooner

    Nov 06, 2013, 19:16 #41373

    @John, I'm not sure there's many Gooners who would class the 8 years of embarrassing defeats to anyone half decent (or up for it) and consistently scraping into the top 4 as 'competing'. Wenger was great for the club, definitely with you on that, but the time has come for a new Arsenal, under new management, to come out fighting and take back some of the respect we have thrown away over the last 8 years. I'm only talking about on the pitch, obviously we have been a roaring and respectable success financially - snore - a fact that used to make me proud when we were winning things.

  32. CanadaGooner

    Nov 06, 2013, 18:27 #41372

    @John - I'm sure Bard can defend himself; but I'm always a little surprised when people provide an opinion and the responses contain baiting statements like 'out of your mind'. I'm sure Wenger's starting salary in 1996 was not £7.5million: so, how did his salary get that high? let me guess: because he was winning trophies, and probably because he kept bringing in cheap players and later sold them for good money. Now that he's not winnign anything, and we've now got several players that nobody would buy (e.g. Bendtner), perhaps it's time to reduce Wenger's salary? We had a fairly unknown manager in 1996 who surprised everyone by doing so well in his first 9 years. Does that not tell you that there could be another lesser known manager out there who can come in for £3million/year and do a decent job? In any case, what's the worst that can happen? end the season without a trophy? (we've already had 8 of those) or fail to qualify for the champions league? (we've qualified for over 10 years and only made one final, never won it). Gunnersaurus can manage the same set of players and get the same trophyless season result!

  33. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Nov 06, 2013, 18:19 #41371

    Is it possible, do we feel, for someone to be grateful to Wenger for what he has achieved and brought to the club, whilst at the same time believing that he is not the person to take the club forward? Are those positions mutually exclusive? A bit like thanking Margaret Thatcher for her Trade Union Legislation and her liberalisation of the Housing market as well as her removing the discrimination between children born to unmarried parents and those born to married parents in the legal system, whilst hating her "greed is good" philosophy, her disdain for what she thought of as the great unwashed and her destruction of british industry. You can thank Tony Blair for having a very good stab at sorting out Ireland without wishing him within a million miles of running the economy ever again. People are complex and there is good and bad in all of us, and Wenger, is no exception.

  34. John

    Nov 06, 2013, 18:04 #41370

    Bard... your characterisation of our situation under Wenger is absurd. Wenger is competing against teams who regularly spend 10 times his budget on transfers... in fact most of them come to our club to take players that Wenger not only discovered but made into stars. And yet he competes despite having his teams disrupted by clubs with bigger budgets. If you imagine that you can get a manager of Wenger's quality for peanuts you're out of your mind. Sometimes I wish Wenger would actually leave Arsenal because it will make Benitez leaving Liverpool look like Child's play. I remember when Liverpool fans were so eager to get rid of Benitez because their club was too big and Benitez didn't know how to hack it anymore... they brought in king Kenny and gave a squillion pounds to spend and...

  35. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Nov 06, 2013, 16:12 #41369

    Good effort, Matthew, though it seems even 'let's wait and see' isn't regarded as fair comment by some. Anything less than total devotion to Wenger is regarded as an outrage by some on here, for whom it seems the manager is infallible, the players are the best players in the league, and if it wasn't for injuries, the refs, the media and the home fans sometimes booing, AFC would win the league at a canter every year.

  36. Bard

    Nov 06, 2013, 16:02 #41368

    John: i agree it would be difficult to get a manager in for £7.5m a year for life,who never has to win anything and who can spend a fortune on rubbish year on year. You miss the point, he's been good but as Ron says everyone has a sell by date. He's had the best part of a decade to win something and if he doesn't this season them he has to go.

  37. John

    Nov 06, 2013, 15:52 #41367

    Danny's post illustrates exactly what I mean when I speak of the delusion that grips some of our fans. In Danny's mind Klopp is at a smaller club! And if only we'd ask he'll come running to manage Arsenal because Borrusia Dortmund are smaller club than Arsenal... This is fundamentally clueless. Borussia Dortmund are a huge club. Massive. 80,000 plus fans watch their home games and that number were watching their home games since the mid seventies when their stadium was built. They more than one ECL trophy and Arsenal have none. But in Danny's mind Klopp will come running once we sack Wenger. Anyone who thinks that replacing Wenger would be easy is beyond foolish, I'm sorry to say... even if we upped our transfer budget 3 fold there's no guarantee that we'd do any better than we've done now because a threefold increase in transfer outlay would take into Spurs territory. The reason we are actually competitive is because of things that some of the moaners hate the most like persisting with players like Ramsey, Koscielny, Giroud and Walcott. Those guys and others like them are the reason we are good side today. And the idea that Arsenal have underachieved in Europe is utter garbage... why do you think we always get seeded in Europe? It's funny but Wenger is the only manager to get one over Fergie in the EPL having spent less money. Yes every manager who has finished above Fergie has had a bigger budget except for Wenger but some of our supporters think that they can just find another manager who'd take us to higher level. This stuff makes me laugh... I remember when AVB was meant to be the best coach in the world who'd replace Wenger. Ho hum

  38. Danny

    Nov 06, 2013, 15:09 #41366

    Wenger's teams have a very poor record in Europe and it will continue again tonight. This Dortumud team will harry Arsenal and hunt in packs. I think they might thrash us 4-0. We need to get rid of Wenger to succeed to go another level up. He is holding the club back for years and we need to get a hungry Klopp in fast. Arsenal's Achilles Heel is Wenger, tactically poor and Mentality weak!.

  39. Edward Scissorfeet

    Nov 06, 2013, 15:01 #41365

    The question that always has to be asked since the "50th" game in 2004 is do Wenger teams have the bottle? We have been there abouts coming into the home stretch but bottled it.None more so than 2008.We were the better team that season but in Wengers words United had the "mental strength".How will this team who not one player has won anything for Arsenal cope when the heat is turned on.We must not go into the 2nd half of the season with only Giroud as our one striker.

  40. Ron

    Nov 06, 2013, 14:29 #41364

    John - Very good points, but things change, the game changes, circumstances change, methods change, tactics change, the make up of players change, Clubs change. Arsene has been a really good Coach and nobody doubts it. Not one person of sane mind would say that hes been anything but good for Arsenal. Hes contributed massively to the Clubs history, already a great history before he arrived i might add. All good things come to a end though and all Captains eventually lose their mojo, sometimes their motivation. Age occurs and affects the drive of individuals and can affect the abilty to change to new conditions. Yes, many of us were there when Benfica showed what carthorses we were that night, but we ve looked like it under AW too from time to time. For a Club to evolve it has to change and the secret is knowing when change is needed. AW wdt dispute that. Its axiomatic for any organisation. Many of us think that time has arrived. Your rant makes it seem like holding such a view is somehow personally directed in a malevolent way. It isnt and its the Clubs job to select a successor, not ours. For the record, whatever the seasons end brings, i think its Arsenes time to retire.

  41. BADARSE

    Nov 06, 2013, 14:03 #41363

    I thank you for the article out of common courtesy Matthew, I am not in your camp I'm afraid. westlower congratulates chris dee for an illuminating post, and so he should, chris' post was AFC as I see it, so thank you chris...fancy being identified as in a crew which has people like westlower and myself as shipmates! And you are invited to hop on board too savage, john and Black Hei.

  42. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 06, 2013, 14:01 #41362

    I think we're all waiting to see what happens at the end of the season Matthew (yet again) as we've been doing for nine seasons now with the same outcome, failure, but when do we start judging? if we're tonked by man yoo on Sunday in similar fashion to before? (there's excuses been made already for a defeat there, it will not be the end of the world, we can afford a defeat, we can afford to drop points etc,) why the end of the season? yes some have been doing that for three four seasons now,and all through the seasons as well and with good cause(Blackburn,Bradford,etc,and haven't been afraid to) with still the same out come. If there is a different outcome at the end of this season and we finally manage to win silver ware (and i sincerely hope there is and we do)does that suddenly make everything alright, does it make up for the last eight years of failure? no it doesn't, there will have to be more than one piece of silverware for that to happen. But what it will mean is the red carpet being rolled out for Wenger with a new three four five year contract maybe even another bust thrown in, and with another pet project to put up with. Would he take up the offer or go out on a high? i doubt very much his ego would allow him to go out on a high so he'll take the offer.But if no silverware is acquired he has to walk or be pushed.

  43. Bard

    Nov 06, 2013, 14:01 #41361

    Didnt have wait too before the ' apostles' start their familiar rant . Sorry John there's a long list of top class coaches who would love to be spending the kind of money Wenger has used . No one denies he's been a very good manager but he's past his best. We need to move on. I would be happy with Kloop Heynkes Laudrup for starters

  44. Tony Evans

    Nov 06, 2013, 13:58 #41360

    As you acknowledge the time for wait and see with Wenger has long gone, though there are grounds for some optimism this season which has bought him a little more time for me, but he has to deliver. 10 games in is still way too early to make a proper judgement but if we are still in with a shout come Christmas then I may start to believe again.

  45. johnnyhawleyloovinggooner

    Nov 06, 2013, 13:55 #41359

    chelsea have not won anything -they have purchased every trophy just like man city have.their owner simply opens his cheque book and buys players,which is fair enough- his money ,but, untill they build a team like arsenal have done or ferguson at old T pre-glaisers, or the old liverpool team of the 70s and 80s, i will look on all their cups as purchased other than won.

  46. john

    Nov 06, 2013, 13:42 #41358

    The delusions that drive the Wenger brigade deserve pity to be honest. On what basis should Arsenal be expected to finish ahead of even Liverpool season after season? What was Arsenal like before Wenger arrived and what would it be like after he leaves... in fact if Wenger left Arsenal today he'd still leave a club that was waaaay better than what he inherited. For those of us who have been following Arsenal for more than the last 10 minutes this anti-Wenger stuff is pathetic. Here are some facts... in the 15 years before Wenger arrived at Arsenal Spurs finished above us 7 times in the league. That's right 7, count them, times. You can go back and check. Even the team that Wenger inherited was falling apart due to indiscipline and loutish behaviour... we had our players drunkenly crashing their cars, thrashing fast food restaurants ... when they weren't drunk or high or both. Who now remember Bruce Rioch's public falling out with Ian Wright? Even the famous back 4 that Wenger inherited were being labelled clapped out by the media! The question at the time was how would Wenger replace the likes of Adams and Bould and the rest... they were seen as too old not just by the media but by our own fans... I WAS THERE! Iwas there when were thought a lesson by Sven Goran Eriksson's Benfica! Anyone remember their Brazilian midfielder who gave us the run around at Highbury? Remember when we sold Andy Cole and kept Kevin Campbell and bought Chris Kiwomya? Yep.. the good old days! I'm sorry but probably the most stupid nonsense in the Arsenal universe is this AKB c*ap! Who objectively actually knows better than Wenger? Matthew Bazell? Hahahahaha! The cuase of all this delusion on the part of too many of our fans is that they've got into their heads that Arsenal are suddenly Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern Munich... 15 years ago we were still finish behind Spurs and had a 38,000 stadium with no corporate boxes and today we're Real Madrid? Madness. Wenger has worked miracles... teams have spent 3 or 4 times what he had to spend and still failed to qualify for ECL look at Liverpool, look at Tottenham... and neither team built a stadium! I'm sorry but too many of our fans are clueless. Here's a really good question for some of you ... who would replace Wenger with?

  47. Ron

    Nov 06, 2013, 12:58 #41357

    Mark - I think hes going anyway in May, win something or lose. Call it a gut feeling, but i reckon hes had enough to be honest. He seemed like hes had enough for a year or two now. His mood seems lighter at the moment clearly, but its maybe as much from the knowledge that he can see the exit door. I dont think he likes what footballs become what with the dirty cash of your Chelsea s et al and mental media/twitter/everybody having a view frenzy ( and even sites like this maybe). I have sympathy with him if he does think like this, but im of the view he ll just do a roll over with his contract until a new guy is installed. Hes too honourable to just upsticks and leg it.

  48. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 06, 2013, 12:37 #41356

    This is about the only position a pragmatist can have, if we we the title he stays. If it is a screw up he has burned through his chances. Would not be surprised though if he did win the title that he then went of his own accord. Either way some sort of balance seems to be entering the club and we here more of wanting to win trophies than finish top 4. Perhaps I am an optimist but I suspect the pisspoor disconnect from management and board seems to b e gradually mending

  49. Bard

    Nov 06, 2013, 12:14 #41355

    Absolutely with you Canada. One way or another he finds himself with a terrific chance of winning a domestic trophy, who would have thought that possible after last season. He needs to be bold and buy a couple of players in the window. But if he it goes tits up after Xmas like every other season then he has to go. Simple as that.

  50. Westlower

    Nov 06, 2013, 11:46 #41354

    I agree with every word that Chris Dee has posted,44224. Well said that man!

  51. Esso

    Nov 06, 2013, 11:38 #41352

    The literary quality of this article makes my purchase of the author's book unlikely, in the extreme.

  52. Ron

    Nov 06, 2013, 10:18 #41351

    Chels and MC dont bother me. Small Clubs. Always have been and always wll be. Ive more respect for Tottenham in fact. Ive oft said Arsene s position became untenable after the 8-2 and that his best days are behind him. I, like many want Arsene to make me eat humble pie but simply dont think that he will. In fairness its not just him thats caused our malaise, its the fabric and people at the top of the Club. No man is an island as they say. I dont know anybody that doesnt want him to succedd to be honest. Having a view thats not entirely positive of our boss isnt incompatible with wishing him well and wanting success. Hes as much a fan as us i think to be honest and its the team we all want to see taste glory, its not me thats wants to be proved right and others to be proved wrog. Footballs all about opinions and debate. Thats what SKY and the awful media and press can never take away from us fans and despite them buying and owning its heart and soul, we dont actually need them.

  53. Black Hei

    Nov 06, 2013, 9:42 #41349

    I guess we all rate "success" differently. For me, I look at he league and the CL as a barometer. The idea is to do well. We should be challenging for the league, up there within 6 pts of the top spot or being at the top itself. Next we should strive to go as far in the CL as possible. Some might feel that the domestic cups are important but to me winning the FA Cup and coming in 4th at more than 12 points off the pace is unacceptable. Anyone can win a domestic cup, Wigan, Birmingham etc which gives a false sense of quality. So domestic cups to me are good to have but not a crucial variable in determining the whether a season is successful or not. There are some shouting about Chelsea having the right attitude. Man give me an oil well and I will show you serious attitude as well. My car will be right, my house will be right, my health will be right; even the local charity next door will be right too. Why the love in for $$ waving clubs like City and Chelsea in this age of austerity is beyond me.

  54. chris dee

    Nov 06, 2013, 9:21 #41348

    Yes,we will see at he end of the season,but nothing would make me happier than Arsene winning a trophy this year.Not only as an Arsenal fan but also to shut up those who have insulted and ridiculed a fantastic coach and a decent man who has guided the club through a period when the finances were severely curtailed due to the new stadium. Yes, I have been on these message boards ranting and raving (losing to Birmingham etc),that's what fans do.But I haven't lost my belief that I would rather have a man like Arsene Wenger as manager than a pouting and posturing drama queen like Mourinho, who no matter what he wins,and spending £75 million every season makes that easier,is still an obnoxious twerp. And it not only some fans who have consistently slagged him off,we have had 8 years of Wenger and Arsenal bashing from the media especially from Talk Sport and it's presenters like Adrian Durham,Darren Gough,Alan Brazil and other assorted turds on that station.And it's this orchestrated campaign of Wenger and Arsenal hating that has made many fans support Arsene even more in these trophyless years.

  55. Weather Vane

    Nov 06, 2013, 9:07 #41347

    Wenger In! Wenger Out! Wenger Shake it all about!

  56. Savage

    Nov 06, 2013, 8:42 #41346

    Right now we have everything we would have asked for from a replacement manager. Chelsea, City, Liverpool, United and Spurs all got new managers this season or last, and we look down on them all. If you're talking about the "right now", there isn't a sane Arsenal fan who isn't saying let's stick with what we've got. If the picture changes, by all means we can review.

  57. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Nov 06, 2013, 8:42 #41345

    The difference between Wenger being successful and him not being successful is there for all to see. He needs help with areas of the game that he cannot understand / is not good at. His period of greatest failure was his period of greatest control, where nobody criticised him and nobody said no to him. Unrestrained and uncriticised he achieves nothing. Assisted and directed he brings something to the party. IF we make a decent fist of it until January, we shall see whether other forces at the club have the reins on him and can force him to strengthen.

  58. Amos

    Nov 06, 2013, 8:40 #41344

    If that's all that following football is about for you - a willy waving contest with supporters of other clubs - then whoever we have as manager and/or owners you're bound to experience more disappointment than triumph. On the other hand Arsenal is the only club to have won a trophy in each of the last 9 successive historical decades - and there's still 7 seasons left in the present decade in which to extend that record. Arsenal have come along way even in the 8 'barren' years, in which football has changed enormously, since we last won a trophy. We're probably as well set up to triumph eventually as we've ever been. Just enjoy the ride.

  59. John Gooner

    Nov 06, 2013, 8:29 #41343

    No humble pie to eat Matthew. Wenger and his team of losers have been terrible for the last 8 seasons. You can only judge what you see and based on that evidence, he should have gone long before now.

  60. CanadaGooner

    Nov 06, 2013, 8:26 #41342

    Mate, we've been "waiting" and "seeing" for the last 8 years, and what we "see" in May hasnt been great! There's only one way forward right now: win something at the end of this season or Au Revoir! There's nothing more to it than that. With Citeh finally breaking into the CL knockout stages, they now have as good a chance of winning it as any of the contenders left in the tournament (can we say the same of Arsenal?). Each year, you just cant see Arsenal beating Barcelona or Real Madrid in the QF or SF of the CL (or Final); so, what's the point? Should we not focus on what we could possibly win? (oh, I forgot: Chelsea already wanted that more than we do as well!). Right now, Wenger should focus on the premiership and the FA Cup. Win either of those and he can have as long as he wants to begin another of his arrogant projects and majority of the fan base will be back behind him, giving him another chance.