Awesome Arsenal

Online Ed: Gunners dominate Marseille



Awesome Arsenal


The scoreline may have only been 2-0 but this was a far more conclusive display by Arsene Wenger’s team. Marseille are obviously the whipping boys of this group, but such teams can pick up unexpected points even when eliminated. And the French team did not seem to show any lack of commitment and played the game like it mattered. Fortunately, Ozil’s laconic penalty aside, there was no sense of complacency from Arsenal either. With the very real possibility that both Dortmund and Napoli could end up level with the Gunners on 12 points, it was just as well.

Rotation was the name of the game, with Cazorla, Arteta and Gibbs rested from the match against Southampton. Rosicky, Flamini and Monreal started instead but there seemed no weakening of the team. It’s a phenomenon of midweek home fixtures at the Grove that many of the crowd arrive after the game kicks off, partly due to the sheer number of those leaving it to the last minute creating queues at the turnstiles. It used to happen at Highbury too. The price is that occasionally many will miss an early goal. And so it proved last night.

Wilshere’s run from just inside the opposition half and exquisite finish was a thing of beauty. The player has the talent to score many more than he does, and it must be hoped that, like Aaron Ramsey, he can develop the scoring side of his game. That he started in a more advanced position than was customary before this season may be a factor in the pair he converted against Marseille. He set up Aaron Ramsey for a relative sitter soon afterwards, but for once, the number 16 did not convert.

A 1-0 lead is always precarious, although the Gunners contained their opponents with authority, limiting their chances severely. The football in possession was of high quality, a real contrast to the performance against Southampton when they really had to dig in. This was a Marseille weakness. Certainly they allowed Arsenal more space than the likes of Dortmund did when they were in town.

The home side were also very determined when the ball was lost and worked hard to hunt down the opposition. They are conscious that closing down the passing options will mean a quicker return of the ball and seem to be more active on this front. It isn’t Barcelona’s hunting in packs, but there is a sense of everyone being responsible for marking someone so that defenders have less options and are forced to play the ball back to their keeper sometimes.

Wilshere probably took the man of the match award, but I thought Flamini had a fantastic game. He once again cut his long sleeves off, which looks like something we will have to get used to. But he metaphorically rolled his sleeves up and led the team on the field, even without the armband. The side now has a spine of Szczesny – Mertesacker – Flamini – Giroud when it is at its best. Interesting to note that there is not a lot of flair there, but a great deal of commitment.

I can’t quite get my head around the Ozil penalty. It won’t matter in the end, as goal difference in the games against Marseille is not going to be a factor in determining this group should three teams finish with 12 points. It was very un-German. I think he tried to outfox the keeper and simply got it wrong. Better to put it out of reach even if he goes the right way, although someone texted me to say that the Marseille keeper Mandanda was a long way off his line. Refresh my memory about what it is that the officials standing behind the goal do. In fairness, it did not look like the foul leading to the spot kick occurred inside the box at the time, a view confirmed later on TV. So maybe justice was done.

Although there was always the theoretical danger of an equaliser, Arsenal’s control of the match was such that the chances were slim to say the least, and eventually, it was made comfortable by Wilshere’s second. The introductions from the bench of Cazorla, Walcott and Arteta indicate the potential strength in depth when everyone is fit. The manager will certainly need to spread the load a little if the team are to continue the good form shown so far this season. Although Szczesny had little to do, when called upon he pulled off an excellent interception (first half) and a world class save towards the end of normal time. On another night, the chances Arsenal failed to take could have cost, in spite of their overall superiority.

As for the final game, the indications are that Napoli will have to win convincingly to progress, assuming Dortmund do take all three points in Marseille. So a containing job is required. As long as Flamini and Mertesacker are fit, there is every reason for optimism that the Gunners can get the required result. However, the San Paolo can be an intimidating place and the last thing Arsenal want is for the crowd to get any sense of encouragement from what is happening on the field. I still recall a match from 1989 in the UEFA Cup quarter final. Juventus had won the first leg 2-0 and then travelled south for the return. We don’t want to see the likes of this again, thank you very much. Still, they don’t have Diego Maradona these days I suppose.

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  1. Amos

    Nov 30, 2013, 22:22 #42313

    Of course 4th is an achievement jeff but it isn't an over achievement nor an underachievement. It's not as much of an achievement as 3rd nor as poor as finishing 5th. The point you seemed to have tried to make is that the club has underachieved based on it's spending compared to others whereas clearly it hasn't. I would urge you to look at the Sporting Intelligence Report which concludes that based on spending Wenger has outperformed all his peers. Regarding the various scenarios you spelt out Everton have underperformed their resources more often than they've over performed as have Spurs who though they apparently have a lower wage bill have higher transfer spends and therefore higher amortisation charges to take into account. None of us should be happy unless we're winning the trophies that matter but I think there are many more factors outside our control that have hindered us over the last few years than have been without our control. Given the environment we've had to operate in the club have done brilliantly to keep us in a position where it's still possible to dream.

  2. Westlower

    Nov 30, 2013, 13:14 #42309

    Jeff, You overlook at any given time where a team is in it's development. It's not all about financial resource & winning mentality. The younger the player base, the longer it takes to fulfill & sustain the teams potential. It's unhelpful & frustrating when star players (Fab & RVP)leave before the project has reached fruition. As Spurs are discovering, the more new signings you make the longer it takes for the team to gel, however much they cost or earn. Star players then get frustrated and want to leave for pastures new. Ultimately you can get stuck in a spiral of ongoing change & turmoil. The media are quick to seize on a negative situation and delight in compounding the problem (as long as it's not Man U)!

  3. jeff wright

    Nov 30, 2013, 11:43 #42306

    Amos my last word on the subject, my point was that finishing 4th was not overachieving but the least that one would expect given our resources over those of clubs below us in the financial pecking-order. You agree with me that if we finish 4th this season that it will not be an achievement - although Arsene celebrated doing it last season as though it were . So I was pleased to hear him say yesterday that he his going to try and stay top of the league this season now that is the sort of comments that we want to hear and not his 4th place is a trophy nonsense. That sort of malarkey is more suited to the spuds and not us. On us finishing 3rd being an achievement yes it was although the same could be said for Everton with their resources getting 4th once - and dare I say even the mighty spuds with a 50m wage bill less than us doing it . We finished one point ahead of them last season - but 16 points behind United - who have by contrast only a 20m bigger wage bill than us. So work out the various differentials on that scenario. As I said before though all things being even the top clubs with the biggest wage bills are favourites to fill the top 4 places in whatever order . United had the 3rd largest wage bill last season behind City and Chelsea . It's not an exact science that the club with the largest wage bill will always win the league , but it is always one of the top 4 ones that wins the Prem. No club , other than one of top 4 highest wages paid ones , has ever won the Prem. That includes Blackburn when Walker poured his cash into the club and beat United to the title.

  4. Cyril the Cock

    Nov 29, 2013, 22:31 #42305

    How dare you criticize the mighty Hotspur. We won the double in black and white playing some of the best sideways passing ever witnessed on these shores.Our legendary managers Ardiles and Hoddle won only 1 less trophy than Graham did when he was our boss.

  5. Amos

    Nov 29, 2013, 19:00 #42304

    The key point is that we've had less resources than the 3 clubs that have tended to finish above us yet we have finished 3rd in 3 of the last 6 seasons despite only be able to pay the 4th highest wages (leaving aside transfer fees). By your own definition we must have overachieved in those seasons. The fact that we've outperformed the clubs below us just confirms that the worst we have done is to have achieved what we should have done. The reality is that we've done a bit better than that. Not something to dance in the streets about but it can be fairly recognised against the yo-yo performances of clubs like Liverpool and Tottenham during the same period.

  6. jeff wright

    Nov 29, 2013, 18:35 #42303

    I don't accept that we have overachieved in 3 of the last 6 seasons Amos - because leaving aside the now current other top 4 ( although City were not one 6 years ago ) we still had more resources than the clubs below us over that period of time such as spuds,Villa ,Everton . When were any of those sides or even Liverpool favs to finish ahead of us in the league? Some clubs, like the might spuds, have spent more money on players at times , although this only made them into big time Charlie's , rather than into big clubs They also they sold many players though to help pay for doing that . We also sold a few top players but they were never replaced. Giroud is a good player,but he is no Van Persie class . I still believe that Wenger should have gone in harder for Suarez .

  7. Amos

    Nov 29, 2013, 17:57 #42302

    All the clubs could have done better with the money they spent but on an independent appraisal by Sporting Intelligence commissioned by the Arsenal Supporters Trust they concluded that Wenger did more with each pound he spent than any other manager or club. I daresay City could have done better than spending £25 million on Adebayor but as with Chelsea it doesn't really matter if you don't have to use resources linked to your revenues. There're many other examples among many clubs both above and below us. In the scale of things Bendtner hasn't been a big cost though he hasn't been great value either. As with players like Denilson we were able to recoup some of his cost in loan fees during his time at the club. Taking all the costs into consideration including transfer fee amortisation costs Bendtner, Denilson and Chamakh combined cost much the same or less than Arshavin who cam as a marquee ready made star player. Both Denilson and Bendtner has played more games (Denilson also starting more) than Arshavin while Bendtner has scored far more than the costly Russian. If there was a mistake then it was in the signing of Arshavin but you wouldn't have imagined that in the euphoria at the time he signed. I accept your point that if we finish 4th again we won't be overachieving - but then I guess then you'd have to agree we haven't underachieved either - and that we've overachieved in 3 of the last 6 seasons.

  8. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Nov 29, 2013, 17:52 #42301

    There is a real problem with "laughing" at the Sporting Emaciated Chicken S.A. except where they do something arrogant and ridiculous (Europa League group qualification DVD's or the Mind the Gap nonsense). Remember - Those who the gods destroy, they first make proud. The point is that we don't disrespect other clubs for their achievements or lack of them. Liverpool FC supporters had some banner up at the Millennium Stadium one year entitled "always in our shadow". It looked and felt daft, nearly 25 years after we destroyed their ascendancy at Anfield. They are a big team and so, dare I say it are our Edmonton based opponents. I for one, will not be getting above myself as a supporter unless I can shout "Champions" next season. Every dog, or indeed scraggly chicken, has it's day. Anyone laughing at Chelsea nowadays? There are plonkers amongst us who used to do so.

  9. jeff wright

    Nov 29, 2013, 17:43 #42300

    Amos, leaving aside what was available Wenger could have done better with the money that he did spend. The youth policy was a disaster and millions were squandered on players like Bendtner( he's still on 50k a week with us nice work if you can get it ) Denilson and ,Almunia,etc, Wenger made these decisions not Ferguson or Mourinho. Anyway,all of this is water under the bridge and now there are no excuses regarding not having any money,also the league looks wide open this season with all the top sides dropping points like flies sprayed with DDT . We have a 4 point lead at the top of the table so let's see what transpires . But getting back to my original point Wenger will not be overachieving if he finishes 4th again , if he wins the title he will because City and Chelsea, and United have stronger squads than us. We need a bit more fire-power up front , over to you Arsene, and to develop a winning mentality again. That has been missing now for donkeys years - and this is a fact that can't easily be dismissed . It starts with one man , and no prizes for guessing who that is!

  10. Amos

    Nov 29, 2013, 17:01 #42299

    @jeff wright. That we had more money to spend than we did is true but the important point is that it is still available to spend. Had we spent our entire cash reserves over the last 8 years we stll would not have been able to spend enough to top what Chelsea and City have tended to spend in EACH season. Had we tried to do so we would not have been in a position to have bought Ozil this season or indeed a great deal left to spend in the upcoming transfer windows. The Bradford/Blackburn defeats were disappointing but in the catalogue of defeats which have peppered the club's history through Walsall, Swindon, Wrexham and others. Compared to beating Bayern in Munich (though we still went out) those domestic cup defeats were the footballing equivalent of dropping the egg in the school sports day egg and spoon race.

  11. jeff wright

    Nov 29, 2013, 16:34 #42298

    Ron, luck plays a part in winning trophies,more so in the cup ones of course where one mistake can be fatal against a league campaign where there is a chance to make up for a bad result. I couldnt see that bad luck played a part in us losing to Braford and Rovers last season in the domestic cups though or against BM at home in the CL. Wenger is the manager though and when these sort of results keep cropping up every season he must carry the can for them. He can't just take the credit for winning games . I guess we will have to wait for Arsene's book to come out to find out what went on behind the scenes regarding money ,but unless the club's accounts were falsified they have shown that more cash was available to spend than what Wenger chose to do. This leaves aside the use of the money that he did spend on players and the wages that he awarded them. Anyway, 3 points tomorrow for us is my prediction to keep our hopes alive that we will be celebrating something other than finishing 4th this season...

  12. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 29, 2013, 16:33 #42297

    HA HA HA tee hee

  13. BADARSE

    Nov 29, 2013, 16:32 #42296

    Have a good weekend Ron, and to all Gooners too. Bit early for Xmas cheer, but three points would seem to speed the festive feel.

  14. Chris

    Nov 29, 2013, 16:30 #42295

    Ron - As far as I'm aware, no one has suggested that Wenger hasn't made any mistakes in the last 8 years. Did he not say himself in the last few days that obviously he had made some mistakes that contributed to the 'trophy drought'...? My point is that you can always point to some things that any manager has done and identify them as 'mistakes' in retrospect - it's not hard and doesn't take much insight or football intelligence (call it what you will). But the stats show that over all, Wenger has done a great job with the resources expended. Yes, if he had done some things, that we know now didn't work out, differently, we might well have won the league over the past eight years but what's naive in the extreme to my mind, is identifying 'mistakes' in a post hoc fashion and using them to determine that the manager is responsible or the trophy drought, when the stats say he's done a good job.

  15. Ron

    Nov 29, 2013, 16:24 #42294

    Its the week end guys!! Im off. As i go, lets hear it from you all as we indulge in a collective long loud and thundering laugh at the spuds. HA HA HA ..............................HA. bye fella s.

  16. Ron

    Nov 29, 2013, 16:11 #42293

    Jeff/Amos/Chris - There isnt a totally convincing unambiguous argument that explains our having had a bare trophy cabinet for 8 years based solely on 1. cash constraints or 2 Wengers coaching and selection. Blaming cash and exempting Wenger of some blame for it is naive in the extreme and blaming Wenger entirely cant stand up to serious scrutiny. The answer is somewhere between the two poles and only then, once youve factored in Boardroom in - fighting and machinations.

  17. jeff wright

    Nov 29, 2013, 15:21 #42292

    AVB is making Harry and Juanday look like geniuses. Someone wrote an article on here awhile back bigging up Levy and the spuds I said then that Levy is not the shrewd wheeler-dealer that he's portrayed as being . Amusing though as it is we really should be looking at beating United and the other real big clubs rather than Tottenham who have not won a league title since black and white TV was still being used.

  18. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 29, 2013, 15:21 #42291

    Nice one James.

  19. James

    Nov 29, 2013, 15:09 #42290

    To all you Spud loser halfwits.How can Spurs ever be praised for the way they are run. Under Sugar/Venables/Pleat and the rest of those mongs, Spurs resembled more some bent Italian outfit looking for the next money fiddle. They have now turned into probably the most tedious and pathetic team ever to grace the Premiership and make Redknaps Totts who I thought resembled more the Wimbledon of the late 80's because of their love of hoof ball to look more like Brazil. Arsenal will and always will be the best run club in England and you my friends will always be the swamp dwellers from down the lane.

  20. jeff wright

    Nov 29, 2013, 14:15 #42288

    I believe that factors such as Wenger's beloved youth policy played a part in his parsimonious use of resources available to him at one time ,rather than a lack of money being available to him . This was not a shrewd use of resources .Top players left us because they believed that they could win trophies elsewhere,and they were right because they did. Us not finishing 3rd last season when the chance to do so was there was indicative of the non-winning mentality that we have had under Wenger for years - he keeps coming up short when the pressure is on. Some claim that this is now about to change ,but it still all looks rather familiar regarding the results against the better sides so far this season. I go back to my point though that the clubs with the biggest wage bills are expected to finish in the top 4. City are an example,where were they before they were able to pay players top wages to attract them > ? A clue is that they were not playing in the Champions League . There really is some old tosh spouted about Arsene .

  21. Amos

    Nov 29, 2013, 14:09 #42287

    @jeff wright. Your view on Wenger's management since we left Highbury might have been different if he and the board had not been dissatisfied enough to avoid finishing outside of the top four since we left Highbury. Given your own figures on wages you seem to accept that we have no reasonable expectation to finish above fourth - yet we have done more than once. Of course Wenger has had some good fortune - it's difficult for any club to achieve much without it as Chelsea's CL trophy demonstrates - but balanced against any good fortune there's been more than enough misfortune in that time too. Yet the club is in great shape despite the 'difficulties' of the last few years - difficulties that all but 3 clubs would have wished to have had - and the footballing landscape is changing while the relative strength of the club is improving. We can regret the lack of trophies since leaving Highbury but really you've put the major reasons for that into proper context with your own figures.

  22. Chris

    Nov 29, 2013, 13:44 #42286

    Jeff - I guess that will depend on what the financial figures show. Averaged over the past six years we may have the 4th biggest wage bill but our league position average is 3.5. In some years we have had the 5th biggest wage bill, after Liverpool as well as the other 'Big Four' clubs. these are facts, not opinion, which demonstrate over-achieving. And even then, they don't even take into account our parsimonious net transfer expenditure compared to most other clubs over the same time period. The order in which we and others play games, or specific single results, don't change that. Yes, if we had won more games we would have finished higher, but what is your point?

  23. Ron

    Nov 29, 2013, 13:18 #42285

    Westie - Once again i have to pull you up for your insolence and attitude and this time its directed at a hapless, feckless and defenceless target. Its really below the belt how youre attacking our freinds from N17, a Club you know who are so univerally liked and admired by fans from all other London Clubs.Stop it and stop it now! How would you feel if your neighbours were bigger classier and better than you in all that they do, the manner in which they do it and who also have a boss who sees off 1.2 spuddite coaches (i use the word reservedly for many of them) for each year hes in situ. Show a little more respect and if you cant do that, show pity, as everybody else does. And oh, snigger instead of that laughing out loud that you se frequently indulge in. It really isnt fair you know.

  24. jeff wright

    Nov 29, 2013, 13:17 #42284

    Chris we are one of the top 4 wage bill clubs only Liverpool outside of City,Chelsea and United are close to us. It was not overachieving to finish 4th last season we had an easy run-in than Chelsea during the last 10 games but we couldnt beat Everton and United at home ,United had nothing to play for after already, with the help of RVP whom Wenger sold to them, having won the Prem. If we had beaten them we would have finished 3rd instead of Chelsea, they also won the Europa Cup . So are you claiming Chris that if Wenger finishes 4th this season in the Prem that he will have overachieved ?

  25. Westlower

    Nov 29, 2013, 12:29 #42283

    Correction : Make that 5 times Runners Up in AW reign not 6 as previously stated. Apologies.

  26. Westlower

    Nov 29, 2013, 12:13 #42282

    Some food for thought for all Spuds who invade these pages: In the entire history of Tottenham Hotspurs they have won the old first division twice in 1950/51 & 60/61 & have been runners up 4 times, the last time in 62/63. During Wengers reign at Arsenal we've won the PL 3 times & been runners up 6 times. I won't embarrass you further by going back in our glorious history any further than 1997. To date Spurs have never been sighted in the chase for the PL title but to be fair, I believe you did manage to make it into the CL on one occasion, compared to a record 16 consecutive times for AFC. Yet during August many 'media experts' were predicting Spurs have become at least the equal of Arsenal with their superior squad of players. Tells you all you need to know about expert pundits! As a club Spurs remain a long way adrift of AFC.

  27. jeff wright

    Nov 29, 2013, 11:46 #42281

    My view Amos on Wenger's management since the move from Highbury is that he has been satisfied with just getting qualification for the CL each season. And so have the board.The managers of the other top 4 sides have had bolder ambitions than just doing that - and sometimes this can impact on league results. Last season Wenger beat BM away in the CL but it was them who were celebrating winning the trophy at Wembley in May while Arsene and our players were manically celebrating beating Sunderland 1-0 to get a 4th place finish in the Prem just a point in front of spuds. The Bale factor helped them to get that close to us with al of those winning goals that he came up with. Even so we should have done better as was the case the season before when we needed a rather fortuitous last game win at West Brom who helped us by putting out an inexperienced GK who gifted us a couple of goals. So it's not all down to Wenger's shrewd use of his resources , he has also had a bit of good fortune at times. I don't think that Wenger , now in his mid 60s and very wealthy , has the drive and ambition that he once had . His current sides are all very technical but come up short when they play teams of equal ability , but who are physically stronger and have more of a win at all cost mentality that their managers instil in them.

  28. Amos

    Nov 29, 2013, 10:53 #42280

    A conclusion of the Sporting Intelligence report I referred to jeff is that Wenger has performed better per wages spend than any of his peers. But even on the simple measure of league performance over the last six seasons he has finished above 4th as often as he has finished 4th. I'm not sure that winning a domestic cup is as directly related to wages spend as either of the two major trophies though. It's not unexpected that those clubs with the biggest squads City and Chelsea have dominated the domestic cups but the odd surprise from teams with no other priorities probably tells you more about their real value.

  29. Chris

    Nov 29, 2013, 10:47 #42279

    Jeff Wright - We have spent the 4th/5th most on wages over the past several seasons and have finished 3rd/4th. On top of this, we have spent less on transfers than clubs around us. This is over-acheiving.

  30. Chris

    Nov 29, 2013, 10:34 #42278

    Amos - I think you'll find that in some of those seasons we have been the 5th highest spender on wages, behind Liverpool (who have now cut back their wage bill) as well as the two Manchesters and Chelsea, making the finishing positions all the more creditable. I guess not having a great transfer outlay (up to this season) has allowed Arsenal to divert funds to wages, which would seem a smart move given the relationship with finishing position (cue tirades about money wasted on wages of Arshavin, Bendtner, Squillaci etc, which rather miss the point).

  31. jeff wright

    Nov 29, 2013, 10:34 #42277

    Amos your views confirm my ones that Arsene is not overachieving by finishing in the top 4 - in fact he would be underachieving if he failed to do so. Deja vu the other top 4 managers of the highest wages paid clubs. Wenger's failure, unlike those other managers, to win a domestic cup though in recent times ,8 years now, is a different matter though.

  32. Tony Evans

    Nov 29, 2013, 9:15 #42276

    I see I have an imposter masquerading as me. They always say imitation is the best form of flattery.

  33. Westlower

    Nov 29, 2013, 7:36 #42274

    Finsbury Joe and/or Real Finsbury Joe, You Spuds must be really pumped up after your outstanding performance beating a relegated team from Norway. Another brilliant exhibition from your bargain buy (worth every penny) & red hot striker Soldado. He must be a certainty for next years Ballon d'Or award as best player in Europe. Watch your league position slip even further as you remain in the two worthless cup competitions. Your congested fixture list will choke whatever life is left in your distressed club.

  34. Amos

    Nov 29, 2013, 1:21 #42273

    Quite right to point out the correlation between league position and wages as jeff wright does. Of course some of those clubs below us have also spent more on transfer fees so their total annual player budget (transfers plus wages) has been much closer - except for the fact that over the last 3 years since Kroenke took over we have spent consistently big on transfers. Nonetheless, focussing just on wages (much as a Sporting Intelligence report produced for AST showed)finishing positions do depend some 80% on wages. It's worth noting then that despite consistently being 4th highest spender on wages we have finished 3rd in 3 of the last 6 seasons.

  35. The Real Finsbury Joe

    Nov 29, 2013, 1:09 #42272

    What, an imposter! Rest assured Though I have my problems with the way Arsenal are run, The real Finsbury Joe would never be so disrespectful to fans on here....at least not without good reason. And by the way, you are very wrong about my allegiance. Despite recent media driven publicity, I have praised Spurs for their ambition and the way they are run, in contrast to the way Arsenal are run. Does that make me any different than others on here? Don't rate some of the players either.I stand by that. Just have to wait and see.

  36. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Nov 29, 2013, 0:15 #42271

    Yes, yes, this stuff about the game is all very well, but a very disturbing thing has happened. Flanimal wants to wear short sleeves and OGL has decreed that he has to wear long when everyone else does. Can someone put chlorolform over OGL's nose and take him out to the weeds and whack him with a wet sock please. Nothing must be allowed to destabilise the bedrock of our revival. Turning to the game, we worked very hard and almost exhausted ourselves trying to find more openings. A fun night out. I don't think there was a bad performance to speak of. We were a bit slack at times in passing accuracy compared to recent games, but I think that the team has reached the stage where it will kick itself up the Arsenal about that. Pundit comment on ITV is that BFG absolutely loves Flamini. He's no bad judge.

  37. Fozzy

    Nov 28, 2013, 23:44 #42270

    I think we might just come short for the title. Everton or Spurs for me.

  38. Peter Hughes

    Nov 28, 2013, 23:32 #42269

    Ozil world class & touches of real class in every game. Anyone can miss a pen,forget & move on. Szczesny another save that should have been a goal. Why are the supporters who criticized him not giving earned & due praise for his consistency. We would have certainly lost/drawn more games without his contribution. Still early days but enjoy. Some journalist in I think the Evening Standard stated that we are still 4 or 5 world class players short. Not sure if he was serious joking or perhaps he is just a joke.

  39. Finsbury Joe

    Nov 28, 2013, 23:08 #42268

    Shut it Ron and Green Hut you sound ridiculous grow some. I still think we will finish below Spurs who are starting to look good.

  40. Tony Evans

    Nov 28, 2013, 22:52 #42267

    Wenger is an absolute disgrace, arrogant and living in a fantasy world all of his own. Our squad is wafer thin and only a fool would say otherwise and that is exactly what Wenger is. We are facing yet another season of mediocrity.

  41. Chris

    Nov 28, 2013, 16:21 #42266

    SGRB - I certainly enjoyed parts of the seasons where we collapsed, usually up until the point of collapse - e.g. 3 years ago when we were in with a very strong shout until February.... But I certainly felt more satisfaction at the end of the last season and the one before, when we fought back to the top four after horrendous starts, than I did after the collapses. Surely enjoyment can be had (or not) game by game, not just on a season by season basis, anyway?

  42. Ron

    Nov 28, 2013, 16:13 #42265

    Im not sure any other Club generates a debate as does ours fella s, i know that much. Its a credit to most of us that we can all gladly disagree with each other and do it sensibly and courteously. In the main im sure we see a lot more intelligent discourse here than we ever do in the press and media outlets. Can we all agree on this if nothing else?

  43. jeff wright

    Nov 28, 2013, 16:07 #42264

    POSITION CLUB 2012-13 WAGES 1 MANCHESTER CITY £202m 2 CHELSEA £173m 3 MANCHESTER UNITED £162m 4 ARSENAL £143m 5 LIVERPOOL £119m 6 TOTTENHAM £90m 7 ASTON VILLA £70m 8 NEWCASTLE UNITED £64m 9 SUNDERLAND £64m 10 EVERTON £63m 11 FULHAM £62m 12 SWANSEA CITY £35m This table of the wage bills of the top 12 clubs in the Prem shows why the top 4 clubs are the top 4 ones. It's down to being able to pay wages to the best players. Same reason why clubsin other countries dominate their leagues such as Barca an Real,Celtic in Scotland. This is a fact of life ,irrespective of who the managers are.I will be surprised if the top clubs in the Prem are not the same again as the ones that finished there last season - probably though in some cases in a different position.

  44. Westlower

    Nov 28, 2013, 16:01 #42263

    SGRB, We all view the past 8 years differently. Canada Gooner really gets his knickers in a twist over it but I believe we've over achieved since moving to the Emirates. It's only in recent games that the new stadium has started to acquire a bit of atmosphere. The players can finally start to believe the home crowd is getting behind them. Sometimes the supporters anxiety can inhibit some players and are reluctant to cheer the team on until we've got a comfortable lead. "1-0 and you still don't sing". I don't buy into the 'wait & see' philosophy about winning the PL this season. It's like backing a horse in the Derby but not cheering it home until it's in an unassailable lead 50 yards from home. Yes folks it hurts if you're caught near the finish but if we don't believe we're watching a championship winning side how is it ever going to happen?

  45. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Nov 28, 2013, 15:54 #42262

    Yes, Chris, the way the seasons unfold does play rather an important role in whether I enjoy them or not, however if you've enjoyed the repeated mistakes and routine collapses of the last few years then that's your prerogative.

  46. Chris

    Nov 28, 2013, 15:48 #42261

    SGRB - So basically, you don't object to what Wenger's achieved (as you now seem to be implicitly admitting that the stat trumpeters have got a point), it's the way he's achieved it that's the problem? I'm glad you're not my boss!

  47. jeff wright

    Nov 28, 2013, 15:47 #42260

    Westie you keep repeating the same mantra about Wenger keeping us in the CL for the past 8 seasons , as though this is an over-achievement by him. In reality, with the massive resources available to him, and the 4th highest wage bill in the Prem, as I have pointed out to you before, finishing 4th is only par for the course. Are you seriously claiming that Wenger is the only manager that could have do this ? Wenger in my view should have done better than just keep finishing regularly in 4th place - he's finished 3rd only twice since the move from Highbury , the last time was when AVB was at Chelsea for half a season,and the blues finished outside the top 4 - but still won the Champions League . Wenger had chances to win at least one league title during the last 8 seasons but blew it on the run-in as he also did on a couple of other occasions during his glory years. He also had a chance to win domestic cups during the period that you praise him for,but again blew the chances . No one can ever offer up a rational explanation for Wenger sticking with Almunia for such a long period. I suspect that a stubborn refusal to admit to having made a mistake in making Almunia his number one GK was probably the reason.I have always believed that having that clown in goal after Jens was sent off cost us the CL final in Paris. Actually this sticking with players who are clearly a liability is Wenger's achilles heel - and one of the reasons why he no longer wins anything. K

  48. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Nov 28, 2013, 15:22 #42259

    Westlower, think your points are aimed at me and Ron the other way around, but I don't disagree, however it's 'jam tomorrow' as things stand and goes back to the first point, success will need to be demonstrated in the pitch to stop you having to repeat yourself, just as people won't shut up about 'no trophies for 7/8/9 years' until a trophy is actually won. I also think what the stat trumpeters often fail to take into account is, it's not so much 'only' finishing 3rd/4th in the new stadium/petrodollars era people are unhappy with, in itself. Much of the exasperation many have with Wenger is a result of watching the same mistakes repeated, watching the season collapse in a short period again and again, season after season. Will this season be any different? We'll see. You can't blame us for not hailing Wenger again after 12 games.

  49. Westlower

    Nov 28, 2013, 15:09 #42258

    RON, What happens on the pitch is a consequence of the club being set up in the right manner. It's sequential, first comes financial stability followed by success on the pitch. If it were the other way round we'd have stayed at Highbury and eventually become another Everton or Villa. Don't underestimate what the CL gives us. It remains a magnet for top players and TV companies alike which in turn affords us a World wide fan base. Daniel Levy would murder for what we have! SKG, I don't doubt Bertie Mee wasn't a good man manager but he should have done more with the great team at his disposal.

  50. Westlower

    Nov 28, 2013, 14:57 #42257

    RON, Totally agree with all the great coaches we've had over the years but regardless of that Wenger is the ONLY coach who's stopped us falling away from a prominent position. His critics simply fail to acknowledge that fact. The rest shone for a brief period before the flame flickered out, none of them were able to sustain their success over a sustained period. Contrary to being defined as failure, being in the CL for 16 years is an outstanding achievement given all the circumstances.

  51. Ron

    Nov 28, 2013, 14:51 #42256

    Westie - i can see from where youre coming buts its speculative to assume that we d have suffered had AW walked in 05. Its true that the Club are better off than any time in its history off the pitch. To be otherwise would be a total failure indeed. It wd be impossible not to be wdt it? Looking globally and commercially, youre absolutely right. If youre content with that outlook its fine and in many ways unarguable.I think the fans dereve better though. The business of what youre rightly proud of is about what happens on the pitch ultimately. The business has to appeal to its customers or it fails however much cash reserve it sits on. Waterstones fails if its books are nt up to scratch. TK Max fails if cant sell its clothes and bric brac. Boots fails if it cant sell its drugs and cosmetics. A football Club fails if its product continually underacheives and that Arsenal. What you describe isnt sporting success, its failure however you dress it up my freind. It can spin people some of the time but not forever and i do wonder how long Arsenal bubble will last in the eyes of its fans, paying what they do to see perennial failure. I and others arent so moaning as you say, im just looking at it realistically. Ive lots of other stuff in my life that long since replaced football as i know you have. I just see Arsenal now as an ASDA foodstore and not a Marks and Spencer. Thats why i wont spend as much there.The product is inferior, but its not bad and can be enjoyable at times but i know ill never create a top quality dinner party from its product. ASDA dont want me to. Arsenal dont want to be a market leader either. Thats fine too.

  52. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 28, 2013, 14:42 #42255

    Ron :Great points about BM : In November of the 70-71 double year I went to an FA "Question and answer" session with Bertie Mee and whilst you knew he was not a tactical coach he was a great "General manager". He stated that his job was to make sure everyone at the club could do their job to the best of their ability, that he definitely achieved. I once spoke to Brendon Batson about BM and he told me that nothing happened at the club without him knowing about it. What spoilt it all was Don Howe leaving and the board worrying too much about our style of football and buying Alan Ball. What happened to BM happened to Terry Neill, Don Howe and GG - the board lost ambition and complacency set in. How the 71 and 91 teams were allowed drift into mediocrity the way they did has confounded me ever since!

  53. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Nov 28, 2013, 14:40 #42254

    Westlower, I'm afraid you're going to keep repeating and repeating that line about 'never been in better health' until something of substance on the pitch is actually achieved to demonstrate that rude health, from a fan's eye point of view. 'What there is to keep moaning about' is, it's simple to disagree with your line that 'AW's greatest achievement was not the Invincibles/doubles/ECL final but keeping us seeded in the Champions League in the past 8 years'. Most consistent also rans, that's what that amounts to.

  54. Westlower

    Nov 28, 2013, 14:22 #42253

    Ron, If we were a mid table side, aka Villa, Spurs or Liverpool, not built a new stadium + substantial investment in surrounding areas, I would agree with most of your argument. In 2013 Corporate investment is as important as who is appointed next manager or the next big signing. To achieve our goals at the highest level Ivan Gazidis & co have to secure appropriate sums of money to maintain our current status in the World of football. It's no longer a world of well meaning old school businessmen in the boardroom, the PL has moved on to being a World wide brand. Whether you like Yanks or not they do understand the value & power of money. I worked with them for 20 years and they are nobodies fools! I can easily see that they put financial restrictions on Wenger during the early years of paying back the Emirates loan. The bottom line rules in USA mentality. AW's greatest achievement was not the Invincibles/doubles/ECL final but keeping us seeded in the Champions League in the past 8 years. No other English club has matched this feat over 16 years. If AW had walked away after we left Highbury I can only guess at the mess we'd be in today. Most football managers are thick as two planks but AFC got lucky thanks to David Dein's foresight in appointing Wenger. I get fed up repeating this line but AFC HAVE NEVER BEEN IN BETTER HEALTH IN THEIR HISTORY! We can nitpick all we like about this or that player but it's insignificant when looking at the bigger picture. I repeat what is there to keep moaning about?????

  55. Ron

    Nov 28, 2013, 14:08 #42252

    Westie - im afraid youre wrong there matey and do a great disservice to BM. Sexton. Howe and Steve Butenshaw were all very vital cogs and Mee was in the main an excellent man manager. The combo of him and them worked well and when the coaches went to WBA in 1971, it fell apart. The successive coaches werent good enough.Campbell and Co. Frank Mac left over money amidst the rows that Alan Ball caused there.Do you think Fergsuon was a great Coach? He wasnt, but he knew a man/men who was/were. Thats true of most bosses. Theyre only as good as their liutentanants. BM was no different.

  56. Ron

    Nov 28, 2013, 13:53 #42251

    Good debate as usual guys. To be honest i feel that many are like me. Torn! Id like AW to roll back the years for sure. Id never boo players or shout 'you dont know what youre doing' to him etc etc and the Club is paraamount. At the same time, i would now welcome a top class proven Coach to take over the reins, whatever this season brings. I feel that there is too much a culture of 'its the taking part that counts' that has imbued the Club for too many years. Its too comfortable and urbane, as is Arsene. Theres insufficient demands on him and the players and the Clubs idea of success is too limiting of itself. The whole set up there is now poised for stepping up a few levels. We ve adopted a view like the Villa s and Toons and to an extent like Liverpool that real success 'is a bonus if it comes', rather than 'this Club demands now success' Respect to those other Cubs who have great traditions and fan bases but Arsenal now arent being true to themselves or the fans by doing the same.Theyve reached out by moving to that bowl. Theyve gone for the corporate lolly and the ordinary fan suffers financially in the wake of that. In return the Club should push its boat out and demand success. Its not doing that and doesnt look like it will. Its happy that getting 4th place is quite easy for them and thankful that there are 16 other rather ordinary teams assisting them do it.Due to this its creating an artificial illusion of success and the Club spins it to make it look an extraordinary achievement. Its isnt and cant be. The league placements that Westie points out over the last 9 years do look good on paper, but the failures and the reasons for those failures are hidden beneath the stats. It isnt lack of cash that s made AW create the limited teams he has for so long, its lack of judgement in who he has playing for him and in my view poor to average coaching. The Club is very lucky that the quality of football in the PL has declined markedly across the barren years from 05 as its allowed us to maintain the illusion of which i speak. We all know though, that on the field, when we ve met quality over the last 8 years we ve fallen very well short of matching it in the main. The Club neednt lose its standards of business acumen to raise its own bar. It annoys me when people say that you either have an Arsene and our Board or a Man City or Chelsea. It isnt that clear cut. Its a cop out for the Club to spin it that way. Its right that things could be very much worse than they are. We re a great Club, We ve great fans and tolerant fans but we re also not doing ourselves justice. No London Club has ever created a true dynasty and theres only Arsenal that ever truly have a chance of doing so.The other Clubs are small fry really and i include Chelsea in that bracket. For change to come for the better its both in the Board room and the dressing room and at Coach level for me. There isnt a black and white explanation for where we are. Its a combo of inertia right from the top down. Things look great at Arsenal to Clubs under the glass ceiling that Arsenal are at, but we are capable of so much better. The Club know it too. Its finding an administration that embraces that and reach for better that Arsenal need.Im not of the view that those there right now really want it and the players know it too. We look very healthy on our face, but are we? I feel we re not.Not for a Club that set out to aspire for far better in my view. Sorry for the rant guys!

  57. Green Hut

    Nov 28, 2013, 13:51 #42250

    Westlower- Precisely, that's why Mee brought in Sexton (as previously mentioned) and Don Howe to assist. Genius I would say, but you keep giving the credit to Wright if it suits your blanket devotion to all and sundry.

  58. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Nov 28, 2013, 13:28 #42249

    Westlower, I agree with you about GG's last season, it was awful watching the way he ended up treating the likes of Limpar. But my point was about the overall 8 years. The rollercoaster is more fun than the monorail.

  59. Westlower

    Nov 28, 2013, 13:25 #42248

    Green Hut, I suggest you read Dennis Bergkamp's new book for a different perspective on Bruce Rioch. Bertie Mee got lucky walking into a squad about to blossom. Nice bloke that he was he was hardly a coaching genius, a physio in the right place at the right time. Our success at that time was more about the influence Frank McLintock had on the team rather than Bertie Mee. How ATC fell away when Frank was transferred to QPR. Bertie didn't survive for long afterwards.

  60. Green Hut

    Nov 28, 2013, 13:02 #42247

    Westlower- Aren't you glad the club buckled to player power and didn't allow Bruce Rioch the chance to come good? Billy Wright's team finished every season in a lower position than the previous one until Bertie and Dave Sexton shot us up the league and into cup finals with the same players. But you're right, we have been very consistent losers over the last 8 years.

  61. Westlower

    Nov 28, 2013, 12:59 #42246

    SGRB, The last season of George Grahams reign was the worst I've ever endured. I hope to never see it's like again. George was contend not to concede a goal and he'd lost faith in his talented attacking options such as Anders Limpar and either didn't play him or hauled him off early. The Highbury faithful weren't amused. Yes we had some fantastic times under George but we suffered badly at other times.

  62. jeff wright

    Nov 28, 2013, 12:43 #42245

    In my view it's the critics of the past policies that the owner and manager pursued that led to any improvements that are now occurring at AFC. Just saying I support whatever Wenger does is not really having any opinion at all. It's still yet to be confirmed if any real changes,apart from having spent some money, has actually occurred we will only know this at the end of season. Also the claims that now Ferguson has gone Wenger will take over his mantle look to be rather la la land like . After all Wenger still lost this season at OT - and its a fact that Wenger has never won a league title after losing there. What about Mourinho ? The Portugeezer seems to have Arsene well sussed out and Chelsea always seem to come good later in the season - our game with them at Xmas will tell us more regarding how Wenger shapses up against his old nemesis Mourinho who has already beaten him at the Emirates this season . City are an enigmatic side unbeatable in the league at home but so far not so great on the road. If they get their act together in away games then they will be in the shake-up for the title come May. In any case they will be tough to beat on their own patch. Wenger whatever the situation is in January should sign another striker with Prem experience . Berbatov fits the bill ,he's obviously not happy at Fulham (who would be) so a decent offer with the Danish plank chucked in could work the oracle for Wenger to bring Berbatov to us. He's got the skills to play up front fore us and could score goals. Admittedly he's a moody character but that shouldnt be a problem for him because we have a few of those sort already in our squad. If we are left relying on Bendtner the injury prone slowish Poldolski and erratic Walcott for back-up then we could have problems in maintaining our league title challenge and Euro campaign.

  63. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Nov 28, 2013, 12:42 #42244

    I think it depends on whether you think the league consistency of the second half of AW's reign constitutes the 'good times'. Personally I prefer GG's 8 years - a 10th, a 12th, but a couple of 1sts - to AW's last 8 years.

  64. BADARSE

    Nov 28, 2013, 12:14 #42243

    Ron, hello pal. I can only echo westlower's view of things. I too find the broad brush strokes of reason a bit irritating. What I mean by that statement is an assumption that as I want Arsene Wenger to remain then I am somehow stilted by inertia, and not up for the 'fight'. To those who know me, and know of me they would not recognise the individual some posts alluded to. I am quite calm and reasoned as an individual who has invariably swum against the current for most of my life, and prefer things this way. Supporting AFC and the current 'crew', doesn't invalidate my credentials. I too have no splinters in my bum.

  65. Spaced

    Nov 28, 2013, 12:13 #42242

    Westlower, I agree with your posts. In fact, I wrote an article on here in the summer conveying some very similar points in support of Wenger.... We are in good times at Arsenal and I find it difficult to understand why some long term supporters can't see this. I can understand the younger fans thinking that Wenger should go, having grown up with mega Arsenal success and believing that this is the norm (contrary to what Green Hut says). Now that Ferguson has gone, this is a great opportunity for Arsenal... I shall quote one of my spurs supporting colleagues - "why don't you get rid of Wenger? That way all the top clubs will have new managers and we might have a chance". Says it all really.

  66. Westlower

    Nov 28, 2013, 11:37 #42241

    Ron, I'm pleased to report that my arse is splinter free. Never being able to sit on the fence has got me into all sorts of scrapes in my life. My life would have been so much easier if I was content to sit on the proverbial fence but splinters are not for me. I was encouraged to challenge the status quo in my work and will do so when needed. The way AFC conducts itself fills me with an enormous amount of pride and I can find little reason to want to change the board/manager/players, etc at this time.

  67. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 28, 2013, 11:21 #42240

    Gaz, yes thanks for the heads up i haven't looked at a newspaper yet, sad news indeed. I can't imagine a true legend like him cutting the sleeves of the shirt or even allowing it.

  68. Westlower

    Nov 28, 2013, 11:17 #42239

    Green Hut, In the 120 years of AFC'S history we have only had 20 managers. Traditionally we don't buckle to short term lean spells and give our managers every chance to come good. Billy Wright laid the foundations of the 70/71 team and produced arguably more top class home bred's than any other AFC manager. Every manager has his strengths & weaknesses and it's better to try and lift them off the floor rather than kick them when they're down. You cannot run a football club on passionate fans over reacting & losing their temper every time we lose a game. We are currently in the most consistent period in the clubs history. Starting from when the first world war ended this is our league finishing positions: 1920-29; 10,9,17,11,19,20,2,11,10,9. 1930-39; 1,1,2,1,1,1,6,3,1,5, 1947-59; 13,1,5,6,5,3,1,12,9,5,5,12,3. 1960-69; 13,11,10,7,8,13,14,7,9,4. 1970-79; 12,1,5,2,10,16,17,8,5,7. 1980-89; 4,3,5,10,6,7,7,4,6,1. 1990-96;4,1,4,10,4,12,5,5. 1997-2013, 3,1,2,2,2,1,2,1,2,4,4,3,4,3,4,3,4. The Wenger years are the most consistent in our history. The glorious 30's had two years when we dipped out of the top 4. The 70/71 double team could not sustain their form. Given the extra pressures of travel involved in European Championships, International call ups, intrusive and mischievous journalism I think our guy is doing pretty damn good!

  69. Ron

    Nov 28, 2013, 10:58 #42238

    Green Hut - There s been a self imposed psycological barrier put before many of Arsenes most loyal desciples for years. In many ways he has been a special coach of that there is no doubt in my own mind, but his aura thats gripped people is bizarre. Any other form of business and hed be gone. If his loyalists owned enough shares that were adversely affected by winning nothing for so long they would be hounding him out and chasing him up the Hornsey Road with spears and swords. I cant speak for Westie but many who i speak to trot the old cop out position of saying 'i ll support the Club whoever is in charge' mantra. It allows fence sitting to the extent that their backsides are riddled with splinters, while at the same time seems to make them think theyre on some higher moral plane by being totally impervious to AW s failings, not criticising him at all and not having the courage to look and see if he really is cutting the mustard. Its quite astonishing and very unique at football Clubs. Arsene is the beneficiary of it of course, plus his Board are gripped by the same inertia.He must laugh his nuts off at times.

  70. Green Hut

    Nov 28, 2013, 10:34 #42237

    Westlower- If you were a Fulham fan would you continue to support Martin Jol if you felt his continued prescence was likely to result in the club you love being relegated? Or would you call for change in the hope and belief of better times without him? My support for The Arsenal is unconditional but my support for any individual employed by the club is conditional, that's the difference between us. Did you really support Billy Wright to the bitter end? If you were typical of our fanbase back then no wonder the 60s were the barren years.

  71. Westlower

    Nov 28, 2013, 8:19 #42236

    Green Hut, It isn't a matter of 'can't bear the thought of life without Wenger',it's all about supporting the manager & his team whoever they may be. My support of AFC remains the same whether it's Rioch, Graham, Mee or Wright. It's our lot in life to support the club through the bad days as well as the good times. We all think we could do a better job but in my opinion these are the good times, cue Canada Gooner singing 8 miles high! When the time comes I'll welcome and support the next manager but how does the team benefit from disenchanted fans persistently belittling the current incumbents?

  72. BADARSE

    Nov 28, 2013, 7:45 #42235

    Thanks for the info Gaz, I didn't know about Pat Rice. It's not really something you want to read on a fan's website, but he is a fighter. If he has been admitted it sounds ominous, but we shall see once we have the diagnosis. Good old Arsenal, Patsy.

  73. Gaz

    Nov 28, 2013, 6:36 #42234

    Sad to wake up to the news that Pat Rice has been admitted to hospital suffering from Cancer. Best wishes to a real Arsenal legend and his family at this difficult time...

  74. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Nov 28, 2013, 5:51 #42233

    In other news, the cockerel beach ball balancer's manager is feeling the strain. Never mind, he can always re - apply for his previous gig as manager for Flight Of The Conchords.

  75. LJB

    Nov 28, 2013, 2:04 #42232

    It was a sloppy performance against dismal opposition.THATS the point the much maligned pundits were trying to make.If Arsenal have any aspirations to go any further in the CL than the now customary last 16 exit to one of Europes giants, then we need to sharpen up and develop a ruthless streak.We should have humiliated Marseille.When was the last time we scored five or six?Like City did against Spurs.Or United did against Leverkeusen(ouch)?The number of misplaced passes last night was a disgrace.What exactely does Rosicky do,apart from misplace the ball? And Ozil needs to buck his ideas up.Don't believe the hype.One of the best teams in Europe?Absolute claptrap.

  76. Dick

    Nov 27, 2013, 23:00 #42231

    Stewart Robson's just another slap head wobble arsed wob who likes to hang out with losers like maguirebridge Hotspud and his gang of bandits.

  77. Green Hut

    Nov 27, 2013, 22:13 #42230

    BADARSE- If you attended games and drank in pubs near the ground as well as posting on an anonymous message board you would realise that your first sentence is incorrect. 'A New Beginning' clearly wasn't aimed at you personally as to my knowledge you've not been posting for much more than a season, it was a reference to the many fans who can't bear the thought of life at Arsenal without Wenger (NOW we're talking about the younger ones). I'll keep renewing as long as I can afford it because I always hope for better, and if Wenger finally shows enough balls to grab the fourth golden opportunity to come his way in the last 7 years, that will be better.

  78. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 27, 2013, 22:08 #42229

    The wearing of the same shirt as the Captain is a tradition that has been going on for years and years and a tradition that has been adhered to for a long time, as far as i'm aware anyway, and we're always talking about tradition on here and how much it means, especially to all us old boys. So why aren't we hearing more about the cutting up of the shirt by Flamini? A lot of effort has been going on to play it down why? is it because he's such an important player in the team at the minute? has he believed the hype that he thinks he's important enough to think he can? does he not have more respect for the shirt than that? If a spud did it out side the ground or any other clubs supporter i'm sure we'd have a lot more to say about it and i'm sure we wouldn't stand by and do nothing. So why the silence now? Bloody disrespectful Flamini, so well done Arsene for putting a stop to it.

  79. Ron

    Nov 27, 2013, 21:58 #42228

    Westie - Yes. In fairness to him i do think he s a Gunner through and through and much of what he says has been been borne of frustration with Wengers methods and stubborn traits and blindness. He then gets slated for being forthright and honest and upsets the feinthearts that can see no wrong nor error anywhere in or about the Club. They don't like Wrights utterances for same reason so, the tendency is to damn them as the worst kind of 'anti Arsenal' due to being ex players. Many on here are so precious about being the Club and/or Wenger being criticized. As for JW, its hardly a resounding attitude by Robson. Lets face it, when was the last seriously decent England player produced? Was it Gascoigne? JW has a lot to do in my book. He says we cd win the title. Hardly a staggering insight. Its looks like the Clubs at the top are all doing their best not to win it. Per M? A much improved player yes, absolutely. However, you and me could have performed v that Eng attack. Hes spouting like all pundits do. A soundbite for the moment. Worthless trash and a very Talksport suited bite and hardly deserving to be called a newly adopted view. They just express views we see on here every day. In fact im pretty sure many of these so called pundits (and newspaper hacks too) get their comments off forums such as this one. Occasionally you ll read BBC writers blogs with expressed views that im sure are re cycled comments off here.

  80. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 27, 2013, 21:13 #42227

    Dick, or will i change the D with Pr, it's obvious your just passing through on your way back to your beloved HQ or you wouldn't need to ask that question.

  81. BADARSE

    Nov 27, 2013, 20:58 #42226

    My words were qualified Green Hut, I did say 'generally younger', and generally they are. Not sure where the 'new beginning' bit comes from, perhaps it was one of Richard's? Am very pleased that you consider yourself a patient gentleman, I think I am too, so we have that in common. You buy a season ticket year after year and all you see is Arsene Wenger playing ethics and morals? Surely you see enough football, and of a high enough standard to make you keep renewing? Anyway things may change, this season, would that be a new beginning I wonder?

  82. Rick

    Nov 27, 2013, 20:57 #42225

    After the Villa defeat I put £200 on Arsenal to win the league at odds of 25/1. Put £100 on the Champions league at the start of the season and had a nice bet on Spuds finishing outside the top ten. Should be minted in May.

  83. Westlower

    Nov 27, 2013, 20:57 #42224

    Ron, Stewart Robson has been such a fierce critic of AFC in the recent past I was taken by surprise by his current mindset. Good to know that at least one of our ex-players has changed his point of view & believes we're on the march.

  84. Dick

    Nov 27, 2013, 20:43 #42223

    Maguirebridge. Are you a friend of that fake gooner Finsbury Joe? or just another one of the half baked whinging woopsies.

  85. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 27, 2013, 20:18 #42222

    Dick, the fact you used that name says it all.

  86. Ron

    Nov 27, 2013, 20:17 #42221

    Westie 45105 - .... and your point is?

  87. jeff wright

    Nov 27, 2013, 20:09 #42220

    tbh,i have been disappointed with Ozil . I wasn't expecting another wait and see he will come good in time for £42m . Ozil doesn't look a happy little chappy and it was noticeable that there was a fair bit of tetchiness between our players last night with verbals flying about between them in a game that was just a stroll in the park. Just as well there was no pressure on then! What the heck is going on with Flam and this cutting up his shirt nonsense. At last Wenger has that sorted,he says ominously that : " He won't do it again."

  88. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 27, 2013, 19:58 #42219

    Ron, 45090, I've just read your post and couldn't agree more ref: Ozil with his class and what he cost he should have, and been expected to, put that pen away regardless if he's only been here one or two months or one or two years, and whether he's settled or not but there's always an excuse.

  89. Westlower

    Nov 27, 2013, 19:47 #42218

    Comments made by Stewart Robson on TalkSport this evening. 1. Arsenal can go on to win the Premier League. 2. Jack Wilshere is the best English player produced for years. 3. Mertesacker was man of the match at Wembley in the England v Germany game. Well played that man!

  90. Green Hut

    Nov 27, 2013, 19:32 #42217

    BADARSE- Those saying 'I want it now' aren't younger fans at all, they're the same patient gentlemen who have been watching Wenger play ethics and morals with £8,000+ of their very hard earned season ticket money since 2005. You can't keep trying to re-brand every season 'A New Beginning' for ever.

  91. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 27, 2013, 19:24 #42216

    James, good shout on the pen being something arranged before the game. Would he have taken it if we needed it to go through? or if we make it further down the line? you'd certainly like to think with his experience and the dough he cost he could be relied upon. I wonder has his confidence and game dropped so that he has to be given a pen to get it back.

  92. norfolk gooner

    Nov 27, 2013, 19:15 #42215

    Why is it when we don't play well and win we are told we not good enough, yet if its Man u or Chelsea we are told that's what champions do win ugly. A win is a win as against Southampton it was job done,we not going to 5-0 every game.With Giroud facing possible burnout,can someone explain to me why he wasn't subbed after an hour against a piss poor side we would have beaten with only ten men!

  93. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 27, 2013, 18:59 #42214

    Mike, i agree, i only watched and heard the game on TV but the crowd seemed even quieter than usual with long spells of silence maybe the TV company had the sound turned down or off or maybe the fans just treated it as a formality as well.

  94. Ron

    Nov 27, 2013, 17:39 #42212

    Hi Dick - More cred to boneheads then if it avoids sharing that view of yours fella.We re a half decent side at best right now, with many questions still unanswered and we ve achieved nothing yet.

  95. jeff wright

    Nov 27, 2013, 17:30 #42211

    thh Dick I thought it was like watching paint dry last night rather than watching Brazil .. but each to their own eh !

  96. Dick

    Nov 27, 2013, 17:06 #42210

    If anybody has any problem with the way Arsenal are playing they either don't watch many of the other teams or they're just plain boneheads. 'NO OTHER TEAM IN THE PREMIERSHIP IS ANYWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS US'.Only Bayern Munich come close to us in Europe FACT.

  97. nas

    Nov 27, 2013, 15:46 #42209

    Whats all this complaining about us not playing well? The team worked very hard, were good in possession and created good chances which they couldnt convert, thanks to the brilliance of mandanda and not necessarily to sloppy finishing, bar walcott.We have played well and lost games for the past few seasons. I must say i'm more than ecstatic this season that we pick point even when we play poorly. That has been the key to man Yoo's last few titles.

  98. Tony Evans

    Nov 27, 2013, 15:08 #42208

    Ron: Apparently Bendtner has been released - all the evidence points to the fact that it couldn't have been him, as there is no way he would have actually hit the door in the first place!

  99. BADARSE

    Nov 27, 2013, 15:02 #42207

    Hi Kenny, I take your point. It can be difficult interpreting views and attitudes in post form, we absorb so much more in person, especially with a group of Gooners around a table in a pub. You watch body language and other slight nuances, I freely admit this is a weird, (but can be wonderful), means of communicating to me. Still, as I hinted at, apart from an occasional outburst we as a group on this website are coming together, and long may it continue, eh pal?

  100. BADARSE

    Nov 27, 2013, 14:39 #42206

    So much sense on these pages of late, however there is still a tendency to go down the,'I want it all, and I want it now' path. Generally younger fans but we can all get sucked in and suckered in. Gav, westlower and Spaced can see what I see, Ozil is a dream of a player. He will grow into becoming a very Big Gun. His game has been a little spasmodic lately but surely anyone can see the way he moves across the pitch surface-what balance, his awareness(he is always looking around), his deft touches, the way he is in and around danger areas. Be there and it asks a question of an opponents defence, he is invariably there. Be a little patient gentlemen. As for lazy, not a bit. We played within ourselves, they chased around without stepping forward, a good ploy to save energy on our part, though at times frustrating. We showed enough desire to get the second goal to kill off the tie, it just didn't happen 'til late on. I am very pleased with the structure of each side that takes the field, though I don't believe Pod or Theo are a strike force to answer our needs they may prove much-vaunted squad additions. Our defence looks settled with Per-Tony Adams marshalling it, and we could be on for a good performance at the weekend, as we didn't chase the game to ensure a 4-0 victory. Keep the faith.

  101. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 27, 2013, 14:04 #42205

    I didn't miss the early goal myself as i was settled nice and early in my seat in my living room and wasn't at the Emirates but my seat didn't go to waste, i stayed at home and watched the match on the TV with a few beers and they were a lot cheaper too. It looked more of a training match at times with ourselves not getting out of second or third gear and not having to, and when ever we did or had to we went back down a cog again. The tippy tappy going nowhere was on show again with plenty of passing in our own half and then going back to the keeper to hoof it up field to be won by the opposition, could an outfield player not have done something similar in the first place with maybe a better outcome? Anyway the points never looked in doubt against the whipping boys even with a missed pen from £40m plus worth of talent (more practice please) and a couple of goals from Wilshire confirmed it. No doubt much bigger tests to come.

  102. Ron

    Nov 27, 2013, 13:59 #42204

    Hi Kev - Not sure im with you here mate. Id have had more respect for the CL had they have granted Marseille 'a by'. They really didnt give 2 f---s about that game last night and Arsenal struggled to generate their own momentum and vigour as a result. It can happen, whether its high or low level pub team football. As it is, Canada Gooner s view on the CL reflects mine. 'Champions league' my arse! Its a joke tourny, all set up for any one of the marguee Clubs to win it. Glad i never paid to see that slumber fest last night. Still they got through, got the result and another step closer to the trophy ie 'the last 16 Cup'. Best outcome? A nice run out for a proper game v Cardiff at the week end. I am paying for that one!! I see the ITV muppets are getting it on here. There was one comment i picked up on from Keane. He said he needs to see over the next 2-3 months if the team have the will, courage and desire to really succeed or words to that effect. Im not sure they have.There was elements of that show last night that suggested to me theyre believing their own hype. There seems a reluctance to criticise Ozil. Its understandable to an extent as we ve been starved of quality plyers for so long, but that pen was utterly pathetic. I know when i played that no lightweight midfielder would have had his hands on that ball when i played up front, unless he wanted an argument!It was Girouds to take. Ozil looks like a player who thinks hes too good for a PL Club and whos taken a step down, while basking in the undeserved adoration hes getting. Once hes made a decent side submit to his supposed great skills, ill change my mind. So far, hes average bar the odd telling pass here and there. Madrid had a reason to jettison him. One was the daft price, the other was maybe they thought he was overrated.BADARSE - Chiles is an oaf, but its his oafishness that makes him tolerable. Heaven help us if they were all like Keane. Chiles keeps it light. He knows he knows little of the game. Dixon is terrible, but that makes it easy to ignore him. I reckon Ian Wright often gets it right actually about the Club albeit hes an axe to grind with Wenger. Many dont like his honesty to be aired though.Yes he s over the top at times, but he knows as we do that we ve been here before on the last 9 years only to blow up. Final point - The Wally showed his total lack of ability to strike like a natural central striker should. I suppose his fans will say he was 'rusty'!Lets hope OG stays on his feet as Wengers not buying anybody. He rely on the Bushey doorbuster!

  103. Spaced

    Nov 27, 2013, 13:18 #42203

    I disagree with those that called Arsenal lazy. This was a performance worthy of the opposition. I thought it was a stroll, which is exactly what we want from a mid week match. A good win with little over-expended energy. Flamini and Ramsey were excellent. Best performance from Jack for a while, although, I think we won't see Jack getting this sort of opportunity in matches against stiffer competition. Their left side of defence was terrible... Jack still has a way to go to become assured of a first team place, for me. I am amazed that some on here are giving Ozil a hard time (you must be kids right?). Can't you spot class? His killer passes in the final third have been a huge fillip to the team and he's not even half way settled yet! That guy is gonna get better and better and better.

  104. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Nov 27, 2013, 13:06 #42202

    yep game at a time. This side is slowly becoming a good one but it is not at the level that they can afford to expect to win on Saturday just by turning up. This season should have shown anyone that if the supposed "big 4" or 5 or 6, are below par on any given game, they will get points taken off them by the supposed lesser ones. Cardiff will be big at set-pieces, and fancy it after their deserved point on Sunday v the Manx. As for the pundits, well, what do you expect from ITV anyway. Chiles was bombed out by the Beeb and can't even hold down on a job on daytime women's interest TV. They all hate us, but as we used to say "let them hate, as long as they fear....."

  105. chris dee

    Nov 27, 2013, 12:58 #42201

    Not 'awesome' but not 'rubbish' either.It was a run- of- the- mill win which will do for me. Ozil??? Stop f*****g around and just smash the ball in.A granny with a walking stick could have done better.

  106. jjetplane

    Nov 27, 2013, 12:41 #42200

    Thought JW seemed like a new lad in his smart tie look on saturday and last night he was the consumate professional who uses the ball in a manner that reminds me of both Messi and Maradona! Ozil, like Giroud looked a bit knackered and the penalty was a giveaway because Ozil looked nowhere but where he was gonna tap the bleedin' thing. As Kevin mentioned, there really is a bit of a spine to the team and it was fun seeing Ramsay feel upstaged by Jack. What a pair hey. Thought the Arsenal fans sounded OK though the insulting exodus while the team were going for a third is bewildering to a peasant like myself. About Pundits: never take much notice of them though the little mob on last night are mildy better than watching dem beeb bitches in their xmas jumpers and that strictly .... with a bit of paper on his lap. Do believe this team is growing together and yes it could well have been 5 - 0 and my did Wally and Santi look pasty last night. Now it's Cardiff. A win there would be tremendous. Thought came back well in second class and if when he is f..... he is still very watchable. Born again gooners - game at a time .......

  107. Westlower

    Nov 27, 2013, 12:33 #42199

    Badarse, Totally agree with your view on TV pundits. The unwritten gospel of TV is to glorify Man U & slag off Arsenal. Twas always thus - 11th commandment. Faint hearts are taking a negative snap shot judgement of Ozil. The press are poised with their knives waiting for any critical noises about our record signing from disenchanted Gooners. We've been through all this before with Henry, Pires, Petit, etc. Bergkamp was ridiculed for not scoring against Hartlepool. Foreign players need time to adapt fully to the crash bang wallop style of English football. Like the players mentioned above Ozil will become an Arsenal legend. The good news is the best is yet to come!

  108. Tony Evans

    Nov 27, 2013, 12:28 #42198

    Unchives - Townsend's 'Get in there' was dreadful wasn't it? Unbelievable how many ex players on TV seem to hate Arsenal, and to show it like that was unforgivable. Hate is usually driven by jealousy though, so we should be glad that over the years our team has made so many of them hate us! As for Garth Crooks on Final Score he has to be the worst.

  109. Gaz

    Nov 27, 2013, 12:17 #42197

    I realise Wenger has said we don't need another striker in jan but I hope he's simply playing any possible move down. Giroud has been exceptional this season but if we were looking to spend £40m+ a few months ago I dont think Girouds form should mean we should abandon that idea. For a start Podolski and Walcott-whilst being suggested by Wenger as adequate cover-just aren't good enough in that role over an extended period (if it came to it). As for Bendtner.... I think there've seen big changes at the Club and I'm happy to say that. Another big change would be for us to go all out to bring in another top striker rather than just settling for what we've got. It could make all the difference...

  110. jeff wright

    Nov 27, 2013, 12:09 #42196

    One thing that can't be disputed about this current Wenger side is that they currently are the best one, out of the top ones, at beating the lesser ones . Someone last night posted a selective list of teams that we have beaten this season that were supposedly banana skin types omitting however the results against Villa ,West Brom , Chelsea and Dortmund at home . He did allude to the disappointing defeat at OT though - when once again Wenger and our players bottled it and this time against a struggling United team who near everyone takes points off. It will be interesting to see how that other struggling side and manager - the mighty spuds and AVB- get on against Rooney and co at the weekend . The spuds look like they are in trouble , big-time.

  111. The Fonz

    Nov 27, 2013, 12:00 #42195

    Please please please, just wind it in to those who are moaning...AGAIN!! Yes, it was not a great performance last night, but I really wonder how many of you actually watch other football matches? Iv seen countless matches of this ilk from Utd & Chelsea.....yet our own fans have to find fault! You should know, that we have always struggled to create intensity when it doesn't come from our opponents.....I knew that it would be a dire game when I saw how inept Marsellie were, we just struggle to really put our foot down, and why should the players waste energy! It was a professional and uninspiring match to watch, but 3 points is all that matters, it should have been more if Rambo, Ozil and Cazorla had finished properly! And those having a pop at ozil.....jesus christ! Have you not learned from what happened to Ramsey? they guys has been in England for 3months...the fact we are top of all groups and he hasnt fired for us yet, is frankly amazing.....imagine what he will be like when he is settled....and we saw a few moments from him in the 2nd half! Thanks for the right up Kev, please ignore those laying into you mate, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't! And before I get a load of expected abuse, this is only targeted at those who seem intent on criticising any performance, irrespective of the result, that's def not all on this board......plenty of good comments on here, just irked by those who seem unable to to enjoy a win!

  112. BADARSE

    Nov 27, 2013, 11:51 #42194

    Just to clear up a slight misunderstanding. Our penalty takers are, in order, Arteta, then Ozil, then Giroud. All very competent, and all capable of missing. Ozil takes his penalties this way and it is a successful ploy. Last night however he didn't quite get it right but against a keeper three paces off his line it wasn't a surprise. The penalty should have been retaken. The ref could see the keeper's offence, but we have a fourth official standing and watching the keeper advance too soon.Both were complicit in abdicating their joint responsibilities. How can the goal stand? Fozzy, I didn't quite react this way but the turmoil inside me was no doubt similar to your own. I did think we would rectify matters though, and was living a little on the edge before our second goal went in. In retrospect it was a bonus to be able to play with our foot off the pedal anticipating a 'toughie' in Cardiff at the weekend.

  113. Website Editor

    Nov 27, 2013, 11:47 #42193

    Interesting how different people view the game. I did not see any of the punditry because I was in the stand. But from where I was, I thought Arsenal really harried Marseille and worked hard. Okay, they did not finish the game off when they should, but I really thought they controlled the match as much as they needed to. Granted over 90 minutes the away team will always get a couple of chances, but it did look to me like an authoritative display. The players certainly did not appear lazy. Although Marseille have got zero points in this group, but they are not complete mugs.

  114. Fozzy

    Nov 27, 2013, 11:19 #42192

    From the back of Block 103 I would like to say that I throroughly enjoyed last night's performance. Unfortunately, I can't. How many times have we seen The Arse dominate the match, sit on a 1-0 lead and then let in a soft one? That's why I went bonkers when Ozil completely fluffed his lines following the fortuitous penalty decision. The poor bloke sitting behind me was forced to step in to try to calm me down. Thank you, Pete. Arsene, please don't allow Ozil to take any more penalties until he gets his run-up sorted. Kev, well done on spotting and highlighting Flamini's endeavours last night. I thought that he was immense. And also for mentioning Chesney's two top pieces of work, one in each half. In recent years at Ashburton we've been undone with similar occasional attempts. But are we now at last living the dream?

  115. BADARSE

    Nov 27, 2013, 11:05 #42191

    Pundits? Well Chiles is a plonker of a man, and would irritate the life out of me if he was a salesman, estate agent or a tin-rattler in the street. In other words anyone who I don't choose to talk to but choose to talk to me. As a link man/announcer he is pitifully out of his depth, and is clearly anti-Arsenal. If he mentioned, 'French part of London' or similar once he did it at least four times. Am not overstating this but had he referred to 'black' or 'muslim' or 'Jew' part of London he would be dragged over the coals. He is a frustrated and spiteful 'Baggy'. Ian Wright doesn't love Arsenal anymore. With all the song titles bouncing around a Fortunes song of 'Don't bring me your heartaches' fits. Get over it Ian. Lee Dixon knows what mask to wear for the 'Hole in the Wall' gang mentality of TV punditry, he safeguards his job. Disappointing sometimes Lee. Keane? How did he get invited? Did he get in through the back door? An ex-Manc who doesn't care about Wilshere and England, and has a lot of history opposing Arsenal. A terribly weak and disjointed team commenting on my team! A very classy job done ITV, sadly it was all second class.

  116. Gare K

    Nov 27, 2013, 11:02 #42190

    Good win with unspectacular but a decent/solid performance. Job done. Whilst I would admit to not being a big fan of this current team, they deserve credit for their consistency so far and I would back us to at least avoid defeat in Naples and finish top of the group. I’m still not convinced though that we would be European champions in Lisbon come May; better teams and better managers would see off our team but that’s just my view as a football purist & an unbiased Gooner, not as a Gooner wearing rose-tinted glasses. Credit to Wilshire for his MOTM performance. I’ll stand by my previous predictions that he can be our Paul Scholes. The notion that he’s a DM is a complete nonsense in my view. Play him in an advanced role and he can do some real damage to the opposition. Another so-so performance from Ozil too. Now that the hype and euphoria of his signing has disintegrated, my view on him is that he’s no better that what we already had prior to his arrival and we already had major strength in that area. Delighted to be proved right on Szczesny too. I always said he’s as good as Cech & Hart and now that he’s toned down the arrogance we have a consistent and reliable ‘keeper, the type you need to win trophies. For me, he could be our best ‘keeper since Seaman. I was never a fan of Lehmann. His eccentricities and hatred of opposition players in our box was to an extent his undoing. So far so good but I still won’t be getting carried away just yet. As the old saying goes, I’ll take each game as it comes. Up The Arsenal!

  117. James

    Nov 27, 2013, 10:58 #42189

    A few points.Marseille were hopeless.Arsenal played well within themselves.Why did Ozil take the penalty after Giroud had scored on on saturday.It was clearly something planned before the game but it was rank stupid.I thought the balance of the midfield was just right with Flamini back as DM.I really believe the final midfield place is between Jack and Cazorla.And on current form jack should be starting. There has been talk that we dont need to sign a striker in jan as we have Walcott and Podolski coming back.Theo showed once again he his not a striker with his shocking miss when clear on goal

  118. Dick

    Nov 27, 2013, 10:42 #42188

    Ozil takes the German penalties and the keeper was 3 yards off his line. Virtually impossible to score if keeper so far off line and chooses right way.

  119. Unchives

    Nov 27, 2013, 10:30 #42187

    Apart from the two goals bookending the match, our performance was lazy and going through the motions. We need to be more aggressive and destroy teams like this, in other words, ruthless. The biggest shock for me is when "Townsend" in commentary said "Get in There!" when Marseille almost squeezed the ball past Szczesny. Kevin was this your write-up or did you get your cleaner to do it?

  120. CanadaGooner

    Nov 27, 2013, 9:54 #42185

    I'll sum it all up with a few questions and answers: Q: How have Arsenal performed so far this season? A: Shockingly good. The Ozil-inspired new belief and Rambo's flabbergasting goals have been the key so far Q: Can Man City win the CL? A: Hell yeah! (even though they lack pedigree) Q: Can Arsenal win the CL? A: Can, but 'will' is a different prospect (one final in over 16 consecutive attempts) Q: Can Arsenal win the league? A: Hell yeah! (but only if we keep taking 3 points from the non-top 4 teams, we cant afford to draw any of those games) Q: Why has it taken us 9 years to get back to showing some promise in the league? A: only Wenger & the management can answer that question (and it's unlikely they'll be honest about it)

  121. Bard

    Nov 27, 2013, 9:54 #42184

    Job done. Thought Jack looked back to his best and Iiked Monreal. He looks a solid performer. Sagna playing like a man wanting another big contract. Fascinating how well they play when they're chasing the money.

  122. Gaz

    Nov 27, 2013, 9:53 #42183

    A job well done last night I thought. Was never going to be as easy as some had hoped but I thought we won the game with plenty to spare. Highlight for me was the return to form of Jack Wilshere who looks like he’s getting close to producing his best football. This was typified by the fact he never once went to ground which is something he’s been doing for most of the season. Surprised Ozil missed the pen but was pleased to see him actually improving after it. Yeah he’s not been brilliant but like Pires and Bergkamp before him he’s a class player who’ll come good once he’s settled. Personally I still think he’s adjusting from effectively being told by Madrid that he’s not wanted. As for the last group game I was heartened to hear Arsene say we’ll be playing our best side and going out to win the game. For a start we need a point to top the group and secondly the last thing we need to do is go out there simply not to lose by three goals. That would be a disaster in my book…

  123. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 27, 2013, 9:13 #42182

    Awesome Kev? : I think you are letting some of the critics of your recent reports affect your judgement. The first goal was awesome and the second was a lovely piece of football. Apart from that it was just too easy but a very professional job done by all. Have to say our keeper did very well with the two or three serious efforts on our goal, with very little to do he is showing great levels of concentration which is key in games like this. We are reducing the mistakes we are making and if we do make any Flamini is clearing up the danger before it costs a threat on our goal. A class striker in January and you may have an old cynic like me believing!

  124. GoonerRon

    Nov 27, 2013, 9:09 #42181

    Solid performance with better zip in the passing than we saw on Saturday. As for the studio pundits saying we lack a killer instinct, do they not realise we've got a whole host of fixtures coming up, and it's probably more important to do what is required rather than over-exert ourselves to fill our boots? I'm sure all supporters would have taken a controlled and comfortable 2-0. Really good point about the potential depth of the squad, all of the sudden the bench is looking strong and still some key squad players to come back.

  125. Livlan

    Nov 27, 2013, 9:08 #42180

    Was gutted to have missed Jack's early goal and all the preamble to a Champions League and must comment that I and hundreds of other match goers hadn't left it late to turn up but had been given a ridiculous transport runaround involving a train diversion from Charing Cross to Victoria due to a fire at London Bridge, evacuation from Victoria requiring a bus ride to Green Park to rejoin the Victoria Line. There was much mayhem and Gooners rushing up the road to catch the start of the match. I was surprised the start had not been delayed. Anyway, good win.)

  126. BADARSE

    Nov 27, 2013, 9:00 #42179

    Thank you Kevin. You are not alone in your judgement of Nacho radfordkennedy. Sir Chesney needs some recognition too. Making game-changing stops are part and parcel of a keeper's remit, when you are largely a spectator and suddenly called upon to do it then it is just a little bit more special. Per seems so comfortable marshalling the defence,it was at a stroll last night, but how we have missed that aspect in recent seasons. True the opposition didn't ask many questions but when they did Per had all the answers. Aaron was once more the filling in the sandwich. How we need Bacary to sign too. Well done Arsenal, and another clean sheet.

  127. Mike

    Nov 27, 2013, 8:48 #42178

    Thankfully, the away supporters were there otherwise it may have been like playing behind closed doors - it was not a spectacular game but three points in the bag -another clean sheet to boot - job done - well done to the team

  128. Westlower

    Nov 27, 2013, 8:36 #42177

    AFC are best price of 18/1 to win the CL, 14/1 lowest price & joint 4th favourites behind Bayern Munich, Barcelona & Real Madrid. AFC are 1/4 to win Group F, BD 9/4 & Napoli 15/1. AFC 1/16 TO QUALIFY. AFC are now second favourites at 3/1 behind Man City to win PL.

  129. Tony Evans

    Nov 27, 2013, 8:25 #42176

    Not sure about 'awesome' but at least Arsenal showed some spirit and bagged the 3 points. In all honesty I thought we looked sloppy and although I am pleased with the win I can't shake off the feeling that we are still not going to be strong enough when we come up against the best.

  130. Wombledin

    Nov 27, 2013, 8:15 #42174

    What an absolute wet dream this season is turning out to be so far. Pure silk. Ozil is the epitome of unselfish, ego-less passing football at it's finest. Has Wilshire come of age with this game? My long-standing hatred of Wenger has evaporated, the crafty old French f*cker or what?

  131. Savage

    Nov 27, 2013, 8:09 #42173

    If Gooners are unhappy with last night's performance, then we'll return to the state of "the Library". A win is a win, and if supporters take wins for granted, then I'm not sure they're worthy of them. It does seem clearer by the game that Wenger is asking for zero mistakes in the build-out from the back. It's as though there is a halfway line rule - once you've crossed it you're allowed to take risks, but behind it the players are required to make only 100% safe passes.

  132. CanadaGooner

    Nov 27, 2013, 8:00 #42172

    Well done to the lads. One thing you can say for Wenger is: he is a creature of habit (let's just hope his habit of getting eliminated at the hands of the first half-decent team doesnt continue this season). With all the TV glamour of the Champions League, it really is, a shambolic tournament with teams like Marsaille in it; and Chelseas losign left, right and centre but still qualifying with ease. Some 'CHAMPIONS' league this is! pathetic money-driven, soul-less competition (and I'm sure they'll keep adding more and more teams, to make more money, and drag the standards even lower)

  133. don froth

    Nov 27, 2013, 7:57 #42171

    I always enjoy your reports Kev, however here i cannot agree, our performance was sloppy beyond belief, i thought the slagging Wrighty, Dixon and Roy Keane gave us on the box was totally deserved.Ozil needs to seriously pick his game up,why on earth was he on the penalty? Still hopefully it'll see us through.