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1. Westlower

   Jan 09, 2014, 11:26 #43977

   @RadfordKennedy, Luckily I saw Chuck in 1964 when he was in his pomp and every British band mimicked his songs. It was the starting point for the Beatles & Stones. The most memorable song I ever heard was sung by Michael McDonald at the Albert Hall. It was shortly after the New York 9/11 Twin Towers incident and Michael spoke about the tragedy before singing Marvin Gayes 'Whats Goin'On.' You could touch the atmosphere and there wasn't a dry eye in the place. "Brother, brother, there are far too many of you dying."

2. radfordkennedy

   Jan 09, 2014, 10:02 #43968

   Mornin all...Westlower.I saw Chuck Berry play back in 83 whilst in Los Angeles,it was the strangest show I've ever seen,the club itself was odd boothed seating and tables right at the front of the stage,anyway Chuck came on with his backing band who had his long time associate Donald'duck'Dunn on bass which as I'm about to explain just about held it together..he opened with 'beethoven'and total chaos ensued within the band..for those who don't play an instrument or sing ill explain,you would normally play Chucks music in A,B,D and E chords as these give you open strings to plays power chords they're basically rock n roll chords,however Chuck is playing along with the pianist in jazz-piano keys such as F and G,the guitarist went sheet white and panicked the sax player and the drummer did nothing but stare at the bass player hoping for some guidance as to what was coming next.I'm sure I saw him mouth the words 'wing it boys,just wing it',meanwhile Chuck who had played off key and out of tune all show had done it with such style a wink and a smile he not only got away with it but tore the place up.I was so dissapointed that a musical hero performed so badly but fascinated at the same time by the total dissaray he was causing behind him..happy days nonetheless

3. BADARSE

   Jan 09, 2014, 9:41 #43965

   Morning campers! Ron, that was a very gracious post last night, good man! Hi Gare K, am old enough to say I remember and still love, 'Little Stevie Wonder'. Though he comes second in my list of blind and black pianist/singers. Ray Charles continues to wipe me out! Bowie we have discussed, and a unique performer too. Now Michael Jackson is the special one for me. He still moves me, and I don't do a 'Dad Dance', or in my case a 'Grandad Dance'. I am renowned for being first on my feet at any bash. In Dublin a few years ago for my brother in law's wedding, I was given the task of snapping people around the evening dance floor. I did a good enough job, considering I boogied around all night, making my camera part of the act. My feet won't stay still when I hear the music. Michael Jackson was the master, my daughter's favourite performer, her first concert was his show at the old Wembley. We went to a tribute show last year taking her two nippers to their first show. Big crew of us went and she was in the row in front so I was up dancing, she too. We danced together across the seats, then the whole gang of us 17 were up and grooving, loved it! Nice to get to know you Gare K.

4. Westlower

   Jan 09, 2014, 9:27 #43964

   @Badarse, Ron, Music Lovers; The best live acts I've seen - Tony Bennett at Desert Inn, Vegas, Gladys Knight & the Pips at Aladdin, Vegas, Anita Baker, Paul Weller, Talk Talk, Cream, Pink Floyd, Andrea Bocelli, Michael McDonald (Doobie Bros); Liza Minnelli; Chris Rea; Clapton, Small Faces (original); The Who; Hollies (original); Steve Winwood; Joe Cocker; Jimi Hendrix; Animals; Chuck Berry; Guns & Roses in Minneapolis.

5. Amos

   Jan 09, 2014, 7:13 #43962

   @SGRB. No I'm not backtracking at all. There is no need other than for you to read the very first line of the post from which you quoted. Context matters. This season so far suggests that there's still life enough in Wenger. Certainly the owners and board clearly think so - as would most gooner and neutral opinion I reckon. As I said it's Wengers call and if he wants to carry on that would be perfectly fine with most but either way change is not too far down the line.

6. Stroud Green Road Boy

   Jan 09, 2014, 1:48 #43961

   "The Wengerphobe/Wengerphile jousting contest is a bogus one. There is no contest really. It only exists as a bit of entertainment with those limited to impotent and clichéd whining on football forums." This quote does suggest a dismissal of all non pro-Wenger views, but if you're backtracking from that, Amos, then fair enough. Your surprising AFC veteran status and music opinions do make you seem a bit more 'human'. All the musical stuff is great - can we call it the Online Gooner / NME from now on? Mind you, I only go back to the Stone Roses. Again I agree with Ron - AW is surely knackered. He's been fighting his philosophical fight for a long time now. He's super loaded so can now do what he wants. It really would be great for him to head off to Africa and do some real good there. Just please don't haunt AFC, Arsene. Go out on a high this season.

7. Ron

   Jan 08, 2014, 22:45 #43960

   Gare K - and you're more than welcome matey. Jackson - Genius. Stevie - Top man - a real innovator.

8. Gare K

   Jan 08, 2014, 22:21 #43959

   If we’re going to talk music here people (my second favourite subject after football) then can I mention two birthdays of great music legends? Although I’m not a huge fan of either artist, their contribution and influence are immense even to this day. I present to y’all David Bowie and the king Elvis Presley. Although admittedly I’m more into Michael Jackson & Bobby Brown as I’m an amateur street dancer (I’m heavily influenced by Don Campbell & Jeffery Daniel from Shalamar on that front) so I think I’m showing my youthful age here! But I must also mention another one of my music heroes, Stevie Wonder who I saw live a few years ago at the 02, a true musical genius who had more talent in his thumb than that overrated t*at Noel Gallagher.

9. Ron

   Jan 08, 2014, 21:56 #43958

   BADARSE - Nice comments re Arsene. Any rational fan would say that and youre privileged to still be 100 pc behind the man. Those who arent or who need their faith restored are fibbers if they say they 'like' to have a go at him in my view. I have a go, but wished i didnt feel the need. I feel guilt to be honest in doing so, but justify it by holding the view that Arsene and the Club are perhaps best served by the baton passing over. His work is nearly done and you know what, i reckon Arsene knows it. Like you, hes such a dignified guy that i reckon his being 'upstairs' wdt at all hinder a successor like Ferguson s presence will do up at the theatre of corruption and bull****e. Its Arsenes contribution to football per se thats helped insulate him in the non trophy years, plus ghoing via a ground shift he s had money shackles round his neck no doubt and Bard is right to make the point he does, right or wrong. Do any of us know the truth? Of course not, but i bet his book wont be hamstrung by conditions when the story comes out.

10. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 21:41 #43957

    It's funny Bard I don't see it that way at all. Arsene is making the moves now to go upstairs. Whether he does or not is going to be his decision. Personally, I would want him around the stadium in some role even if I had to push him there in a wheelchair, mind you I might need westlower to push me in mine in order to do it. We measure most things in different ways, including people. To me Arsene Wenger has been the greatest thing to happen, football-wise, in my life. I dreamt of the beautiful game throughout my childhood and into my adulthood. I watched the aridity of the football fare served around me, though an Arsenal shirt wasn't viewed in the same way through my eyes. I believed the artistry was beyond the comprehension of my team, as it certainly was for other sides in England. I was satisfied with other attributes of the English game, bulldog spirit, never say die, etc. Then this Frenchman came along and changed the entire concept of football. More, he did it at my club, my Arsenal. For almost two decades he has given me artistry and a style of football that I drool over. We will maintain, by and large this style for a while longer I think, with or without him at the helm. He has created a footballing dynasty of sorts. We are known for our free-flowing football and anyone in charge who let that diminish in the eyes of the world would do it at their peril. If nothing else it is a huge marketing plus, so I expect that emphasis to continue. A pot would be nice, let's hope one comes along soon, as some at the bus stop are impatient, and they may start vandalising the nearby bench or timetable. I shan't because I am assured one will be along very soon, then another, and another. I just hope I can last long enough to see this cavalcade.

11. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 21:35 #43956

    Bard - Good points. To be honest i just think Arsene is tired. Its that simple. He maybe is still at the stage where he isnt sure he is tired though. Theres an edge thats gone. hes entitled to be tired, treading the line between that bunch who tore each other apart in the boardroom for so long pre Kroenke and who i think are still at it. I reckon hes got a real sense of duty where many lesser beings would have been off and worn down by it a long time since.The salary helps of course and while the boardroom antics have been going on for years i reckon hes just ploughed his own furrow without being checked and thats where hes left himself exposed to criticism he gets today. Hes an operator though and knows how to position himself amidst it all and its helped him survive.

12. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 21:20 #43955

    Westie - Got to know Jeff via a mate of mine who was a chippy/electrician working on sets for ELO in the 70s. I used to get work assisting as i was an engineering apprentice at the time in Bham and he got the work for the Belfry and NEC and Town Hall Bham etc venues. Jeff s a brummie as you know. Lovely guy and humble as many are in the music industry. Ive had a few freebie ELO gig tickets in my time mate. Bloody brilliant and at one stage they were really the biggest band in the world at their peak. Ive met Roy Wood a few times as well. I cd always get to gigs for free at the Belfry at one time before it was what it is now. He was always on there. Good performer. Underated. The Wilberries were so pure. Musicians who were doing it for fun and the pay wasnt important, just knocking off songs and riffs for the hell of it. GH was its brain child as you know. BADARSE - Big O S songs were ground breaking as you rightly say. No fixed structure. Just songs that were stories/ballads really. His harmonies in his singing were unique. Powers that be in this world will never take music of us mate will they, although many regimes have tried as im sure you know more than me. One of lifes constants for me.

13. Bard

    Jan 08, 2014, 21:14 #43954

    Amos; still beating the drum. You simplify the debate. Arsenal were a great club before Wenger and will be after him. He has been a very good manager but not a great one in my opinion. He hasn't won diddly squat for nearly a decade and blown some good opportunities. You are right he a fantastic money making machine for the board but he's been able to cut himself some slack by excusing his failures as a reflection of the financial constants imposed by the move to the Emirates. This argument allowed him to camouflage his tactical and transfer failures. That particular excuse is now redundant so expectations now go up i.e. if we now have the money lets invest. i don't think he will stay as manager for long unless he wins something. This is why its my view that this window is so critical.

14. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 20:56 #43953

    Amos - I think a lot of us wd say that the romance has gone from footie. Its very sad as for a fan the sheer spectacle of it and having heroes and all that was we were brought up on wasnt it. I think SKY has made us all a bit too intense over it, so wasnt digging at you specifically. Those in the game barely recognise it now. Like you, its still a pleasure yet id never go regularly again as i did for years. Its not a product that justifies it for me. Steve Earle mate - Starting to get into some Country since i stated learning guitar properly instead of arsing about with it which ive done for too long. and his is a great sound. I like Kenny Wain Shepherd too. SGRB - I know. Ha I smiled at the Lennon comment and its irony. Hes a good poster though. Very colourful and creative. Makes this site so good really in that we all bluster at each other and agree at other times.Your a good poster y self. There are a few now here and abouts.

15. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 20:52 #43952

    SGRB is it equally surprising that Lennon is my man, with his acerbic humour and laconic style and approach? Ironic eh? Role reversal between Spectrum and myself, perhaps based on priorities, and areas of importance? Only wondering. @Ron Jeff Lynne is a 'Jeanius'. Brilliant musician, songwriter, singer and record/album/disc producer. A big fan of the Beatles and they heavily influenced him. Love Roy Orbison too chum. His style of song, lyrics, (am not a musician so there is probably a word for what I mean, like riff or woof, ha ha), but the way his songs are structured, often telling a story, one sentence running into the other. Another iconic figure. We share a lot in music Ron. @westlower The Everlys were unique weren't they? They bridged the gap from old school into the beat era effortlessly. So much originality gone. Chuck Berry and Mr. Blue Suede Shoes himself. Still able to throw in an eclectic mix of Basie, Williams and Vaughn. You are a high class musical aficionado buddy, just like your football knowledge. Hang on! Ron's calling for his hot water bottle, and it's your turn to make it for him. Better hurry or he'll start playing his Spice Girls album again.

16. Westlower

    Jan 08, 2014, 20:51 #43951

    Ron, You're a lucky boy if you know Jeff Lynn. What a talent and so humble with it. No apparent ego unlike many inferior musicians. Recorded a documentary on Jeff a couple of years ago and played it many times. Great moments in his own home/studio and great interviews with people connected to the Wilburys.

17. Amos

    Jan 08, 2014, 20:06 #43950

    Not sure what points about company law I attempted to make at all Ron but feel free to correct any errors if I did. I well remember walking to the Arsenal ground in the 60s and paying at the turnstiles to stand right at the back under the clock. Football has been eating itself for the last decade or so but watching Arsenal still gives me a great deal of pleasure and inevitably a fair amount of frustration which, in a perverse way, is part of the pleasure. I'm not sure how my posts can fairly be described as intense while expressing indignation at the view that some, and I specifically only mentioned some and not all as SGRB mistakenly claimed, of the rants could at least as fairly, probably more so, be described as impotent and clichéd whining. I certainly don't feel intense when posting but the intensity with which some wengerphobes leap upon anything even mildly supportive of the present management and ownership suggests your advice to ease off a bit is probably misdirected. As for music plenty of good stuff in the 50s and 60s Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Huey Smith all still sound great but plenty more recent too - try Steve Earle, Paul Burch, Mando Saenz, JD McPherson, Rod Picott, John Hiatt if you haven't already

18. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 08, 2014, 19:13 #43949

    Ron, you're right. Describing all dissenting voices as whining and clichéd is at once sweeping and reductive, and, to be frank, mindless - something Amos is ready to accuse others of being. Sort of on the music front, I did find it ironic that Spectrum's not such a fan of Lennon due to him being 'cynical and acerbic'!

19. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 19:01 #43948

    BADARSE - The Wilberries are fine by me mate! Did you see the BBC 4 prog about the Big O just afore Xmas? Brilliant it was. What a smashing guy he must have been. PS Name dropping here, but i'm familiar with Jeff Lynn. Great guy. Top musician. 'inside out', the devils been busy'. All great stuff mate. AMOS - Youre right i d guess on the AW out/in conundrum. Never hear much comment on it at games really, but with respect to whatever knowledge you have, youre a bit too intense now. Wenger or not, top or bottom, cup exits early or late, cash or no cash Arsenal are still a great Club with a big following. A good few of us cut our teeth in the mid 60s and i can tell you, being a fan then beats this modern experience hands down and we didnt get close to winning as much as an egg Cup till 68. We re still here, so it shows how irrelevant football is in the greater scheme of things matey.Truth is, none of us on here really know what we re talking about give or take a few informed ideas and observations that we may throw into the hat at times. Addressing posters about their 'delusions' and 'impotency' wont gain you any readers chum. We all get a bit exited at times, but youre flogging a tired horse now on this stuff today in this thread im afraid. Join the music debate fella. Its far more satisfying and far more good for the soul than football will ever be. Footballs dying mate in its own sea of corruption and mediocrity and its happening while you excitedly type. Ease off a bit. You make a few good points , all the same, even though your company law needs a serious refresher course. No offence intended here buddy.

20. BBCMicro

    Jan 08, 2014, 18:56 #43947

    "In Spectrum we rust"

21. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 08, 2014, 18:44 #43946

    "Wenger alone will decide whether he stays or goes." Amos, I agree with you here. It's easy to forget though that, as things stand, Wenger's leaving in four months. Looks to me like he's questioning his position more than many of his followers are. If he decides to go though, he should go altogether. Look at the effect of Ferguson looming over Moyes. Wenger has spoken of coaching kids in Africa and I hope that's what he'll go and do.

22. Amos

    Jan 08, 2014, 18:19 #43945

    The tone of some of the 'Wenger out' posts here would suggest they believe there is a real contest between Wengerphobes and Wengerphiles. That's as deluded as many of the bogus arguments against the club. The Wengerphobes lost that contest a long time back and in truth in barely even got started apart from some internet noise. There's no real weight behind any campaign to remove him. The controlling owner and largest minority shareholder, representing 98% of the ownership are Wengerphiles. They are ready to write Wenger a contract to stay as long as he wants and probably in almost capacity he wants. Most of the rational journos are behind him. Wenger alone will decide whether he stays or goes. Having said that either decision is ok with me. The club is in such good shape now that replacing him would be easier now than it might have been at anytime in the last 8 years and he probably wouldn't go on for more than another year or two anyway. Change is not too far down the line whatever happens. Whether anyone taking his place would find it a bit of a poisoned chalice or not is a worthy question. Chances are, in the present operating environment, they stand as much or more chance of doing worse than Wenger has managed. The first time we miss a CL spot could be fatal for anyone following him - even if they had won the league cup! The board, and majority owner, sings from the same sheet as Wenger and there must be a fair chance that he would remain in some executive capacity so there won't be some 'arry Redknapp style change in management philosophy. The Wengerphobe/Wengerphile jousting contest is a bogus one. There is no contest really. It only exists as a bit of entertainment with those limited to impotent and clichéd whining on football forums.

23. Westlower

    Jan 08, 2014, 18:17 #43944

    Mesut Ozil named as Germany's National Player of the Year.

24. Westlower

    Jan 08, 2014, 18:04 #43943

    Badarse, My first concert was the Everly Bros in Cambridge, sadly Phil died this week. The next concert was Chuck Berry, Carl Perkins, Animals at the Rainbow. Then I went posh at the Royal Festival Hall to see Count Basie, Joe Williams & Sarah Vaughan.

25. Amos

    Jan 08, 2014, 18:02 #43942

    @LOL. No I didn't say Higuain was a stalking horse. Try again if you think it worthwhile though. If Napoli were minnows then they were minnows who had qualified for the CL and had just raised a lot of money by selling Cavani. So what if Higuain's dad, agent, mother in law and newspaper reporters all played up an Arsenal interest. If they wanted Higuain to get the best possible deal out of Napoli that's exactly what they should do. It even makes sense for Arsenal to go along with it if they were co-operating with Real in order to set up a deal they might have wanted for another player (including apparently Benzema) if they had accepted that Higuain was going to Italy anyway. There's plenty of desperate naivety on show here though. :)

26. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 17:40 #43941

    Ron Major Tom 1969. Will the Traveling Wilburys do it Ron? Dylan is in there. jeff wright a good call on the Stones. Bowie's first venture as a pop singer was embarrassing, 'The Laughing Gnome' I believe it was called, it was dire. Then a complete change of style saw him rocket(sorry Major Tom), the whole Ziggy Stardust thing was unique and innovative. He is still cutting it, as are the Stones.

27. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 17:28 #43940

    BADARSE - So it was mate. Sorry. Westie up to his tricks again!We ve been very much at one though lately, the laird and me. Have you noticed? I think hes plotting something by luring me into a false sense of security. Im onto him though, unless im just sub conciously respecting his years more these days. Ha! Im off now anyway guys. Have a good evening and all try and play a little Dylan tonight if you can. You ll find it rewarding im sure.

28. LOL

    Jan 08, 2014, 17:26 #43939

    Amos your naivety in your desperation to protect your beloved Master is staggering. So because Ozil and Wenger both publicly said this, it is so? You claim Higuain was 'a stlaking horse' - do you have any evidence of this? Answer: NO. But it suits your rubbish narrative to claim otherwise. Arsenal were clearly in for Higuain, it was reported not by one or two but ALL the papers. Higuain confirmed it, his dad confirmed it, Dick Law confirmed it. So why on earth are you pretending it never happened and besides, so what if Napoli came in for him? Who are Napoli? They are bloody minnows. Your mentality exposed, again. Further, you've also exposed what a ridiculous lack of football knowledge you have by comparing Higuain (you know, that striker that starts for Argentina ahead of Aguero and Tevez at times), with Giroud. Jesus Christ. You want to use 'stats' selectively? Ok how about this stat: in over 900 minutes of football against the big 3 sides in the PL, Olivia Giroud has managed the grand total of THREE shots on target. That's it. He has scored a total of ZERO goals against Man United, Chelski and Citeh in 2 years. Despite being Arsenal's main striker. Just to put that in context, Rickie Lambert, Loic Remy, Saido Berahino, Frazier Campbell, Wilfired Bony, Jon Walters, and MAROUANE CHAMAKH FFS ALL have superior records against the big 3 teams, and none of them reveive anywhere near the class of service Giroud does. See? We can all use stats to support ourselves! Higuain meanwhile, has an outstanding goal record for one of the biggest clubs in the world, has scored in Clasicos, scored in massive international fixtures etc. If you really want to be facetious, we can look at more statslike yer know...why can Giroud not start ahead of Loic Remy for France hmm? Remy is a Championship striker. Why has Giroud not yet hit double digits in the PL despite being our only striker? I could go on but you've made yourself look incredibly silly by comparing Higuain to Giroud. Ford Fiesta v a Porsche mate. Give up.

29. jeff wright

    Jan 08, 2014, 17:24 #43938

    Times change Ron and my daughter's two girls are both ID fans I told 'em there is only one direction for them,over a cliff! I never saw Bowie I liked some of his stuff but I'm a big Stones fan - I've been to some of their gigs over the years and they still keep rolling on!

30. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Jan 08, 2014, 17:19 #43937

    Ermm. Don't we have Mr Thierry Henry training with us or has he departed?

31. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 17:18 #43936

    westlower you were just a tanner out buddy. Ha ha, another wrinkly steps up to the plate. And another, we have jeff wright entering stage right. Well we have no losers today, so 'no idea' is a winning answer! Savile was not alone in his odious behaviour. It is continuing everywhere around the world as we speak, to change it we need power to the people. @Ron, I know you are a Lennon fan buddy, same as me. It was you getting it back to front, westie posted that as a tease. You are still a little sleepy my dear friend, oh and Hiawatha you've got a feather stuck in your hair. This is becoming more like a comedy show by the day.

32. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 17:15 #43935

    Jeff - Sisters eh matey. Tell me about em! Can recall 2 of mine and a cool Auntie of ours coming back from a Tom Jones gig about that time, all hoarse throated. Whether they d all lobbed their knickers at him though, i ve never had a straight answer to this day! First live performer i saw - Bowie. At the Belfry Nr Bham. Brilliant. Seen him 5 times since. 'Major Tom' time, must have been 1970?

33. jeff wright

    Jan 08, 2014, 17:07 #43934

    No idea BadArse what you paid to see the Beatles 1n 1963 it must have been worth it though. I saw them in a Xmas show at the Hammersmith Odean in January 65 I went with my older sister and two of her mates and they drove me mad screaming - along with all the other girls in the theatre every time the Beatles appeared. They did some comedy sketches and a set of songs at the end appearing on a revolving dais playing Twist and Shout . Jimmy Saville was the compare, by all accounts he was up to his odious antics back then,it's amazing how he got away with it for so long . The cult of celebrity by association with the top stars of pop and rock I suppose must have helped him.

34. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 17:02 #43933

    I knew it would be an old wrinkly who would nail the price, you didn't let me down Ron. I can actually use this sloppy expression with great validation, you are on the money! It was exactly 3/6 Ron. 17 and a 1/2 pence for you Younger Guns.@ Oh westlower I thought exactly the same thing about Spectrum. Where do we go from here? I am all for continuing with him as part of the prisoner reform and rehabilitation programme. Remember he must be getting such stick due to the Ashes not settling yet. (See what I did there?). Did Ron get to the bottom bunk first, is that why you are still up? You can remove the nightcap now though, it does disturb me, Ebenezer Scrooge and all that.

35. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 17:01 #43932

    BADARSE - Youve got me back to front matey. Its Lennon for me all day long. I think he would have become bigger than Elvis ever was had that nutter not popped him in 1980. Mac Cartney - talented< oh yes. Smarmy git? oh yes. His Litigation v the record label over accreditation showed him up to be the back stabbing, egocentric type.Lacked the guts to do that when JL was alive. Hes done little since the Beatles that makes me sit up and go 'wow'. Give me GH over him any day and tbh hes close to Lennon in what hes done and did as i see him. Very very underated, but kept down and in his place by MacCartney.

36. Westlower

    Jan 08, 2014, 16:59 #43931

    Badarse, 4/-. Four shillings in old money or 20p in todays?

37. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 16:50 #43930

    BADARSE - Between 3s and 6p and 5s?

38. Westlower

    Jan 08, 2014, 16:44 #43929

    Spectrum's final comment before he went to bed nailed him. He's a kangaroo, descended from convicts - tie him down sports! All the nonsense in his head must be derived from Sky's Man U loving, anti AFC, pundits/experts or worse still Robbie Savage. Ron shares Spectrum's love of McCartney!! Badarse, Spectrum couldn't have gone to Bedfordshire, perhaps Aussies go to Queensland?

39. Identity number 3

    Jan 08, 2014, 16:42 #43928

    Amos, you're unhappy comparing results against the same teams at the same venues a season apart, but more than happy to compare Giroud and Higuain playing against different teams in a different league in a different country!

40. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 16:42 #43927

    Bard am glad you are still there. Spectrum gone to bed, Ron and westie too, though not together! They have bunk beds but still argue about who will sleep on top. Neither want to as they can't quite manage the ladder. So I'll throw my question over to you, or anyone else who is still awake on this magic bus of a site. How much was my admission to see the Beatles in July 1963?

41. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 16:30 #43926

    Spectrum, nice to connect with the Beatles, chum. When I grew up, to hear music twenty years before my birth was like hearing odd noises. For any of today's youngsters they can hear a Beatles song from around half a century ago and still get it. Many deride Paul, because he was a softer kind of individual, I think he was a musical genius. However standing right alongside were the other two giants, John and George. John was my hero, and still is. I got everything he said and did. I guess he is my true alter ego.It is astounding how fresh their music still is. 'Twist and Shout' is still a rock classic, as is 'Get Back'. Two songs from each end of their too short Beatle's life, they serve as perfect bookends to me. I saw the Beatle's in July 1963. Billy J.Kramer and the Dakotas were the support group. Guess how much the admission was?

42. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 16:28 #43925

    Oh before I retire for the night, for Badarse, Amos and co. - To borrow a phrase from a famous rock legend; "I'd like to say thankyou on behalf of the club and ourselves ( the Arsenal realists ), and I hope we passed the audition." "In Arsene we rust."

43. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 16:14 #43924

    Bard - "....The man's a bloody genius and if you can't see that Spectrum then you have no hope I'm afraid". Tongue in cheek again ( "I hope", ha-ha ). Amos - Your forensic analysis please, on my post ( no.46801 ) regarding Suarez.Now it's off to bed for me, as it's gone midnight here in Australia. "In Arsene we rust."

44. Bard

    Jan 08, 2014, 16:02 #43923

    Thoroughly enjoying the posts. Amos and Spectrum have nicely got under our skins. Some of it sounds like a Benitez rant about 'the facts'. Whoever Wenger does or doesn't go for, the FACTS are that it will be long and protracted, likely to fall through, be someone we've never remotely heard of and cost very little oh yes and probably have shocking fitness record. He played a blinder in the summer spending the whole 3 months chasing a striker ( which we now know was a bluff) before spending an Arsenal record for a midfield player an area where we were already strong. The man's a bloody genius and if you can't see that Spectrum then you have no hope I'm afraid. Keep them coming guys I'm really enjoying today's jousts

45. Amos

    Jan 08, 2014, 15:48 #43922

    @spectrum. Poldolski was signed quite early, so was Giroud. Gervinho mid window I guess, Cazorla about a month before the window closed and Koscielny pretty early. Late signings are by no means confined to Wenger. Real signed Bale late, ManU Fellaini, Liverpool Sakho and the previous year they signed Sturidge on deadline day while City signed Nastasic. There're many, many more examples all over the football world. Of course in more recent times, those clubs whose spending hasn't been dependent on their revenues, have been less prgmatic about the deals they've concluded than clubs whose resources are more finite. However, all negotiation, especially given the sums involved, is a game of brinkmanship to some degree. It can also be very complex and dependent on other moves making a player available. As for Arshavin it was common knowledge that Zenit were holding out for big money which is why a number of interested clubs, Juventus notably, were not able to conclude a deal the previous summer. Zenit had to sell in the January window if they were not to let him leave on a free. As long as we were confident (as Juventus had withdrawn their offer)that we were the only viable option (certainly one of the few with cash to pay upfront)then it was just a matter of waiting until Zenit had to deal. Good negotiation, though as it transpired, despite the initial euphoria, poor value.

46. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 15:47 #43921

    Badarse - A Beatles fan eh ? Me too. NOW we're cooking. I however, prefer Macca out of the two main writers. John's personality could be cynical and acerbic at times despite his songwriting ability. Which put me off him. Paul was more the easy going family man.To me personally, there has never been any other band as good as the Beatles were. Their music was consistently brilliant, and never below ( at least ) good. How many other bands can compare on that score over a seven to eight year period ( 1962 -1970 ) ? Few if any. And more importantly was the sheer durability of their music. It still sounds as fresh, innovative and engaging today as it did then - and that was fifty years ago! That to me, is the true test of talent."In Arsene we rust."

47. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 15:46 #43920

    SGRB - Sound comment mate and youre right on the money re same facts equalling 2 distant and divisive interpretations of them in Arsenal fans case. Its quite unique i guess and the beneficiary is of course AW ultimately. SKY and Co - dont get me ranting mate. The bane of the game in my view. Its set fans v fans, created mayhem in clubs fans attitudes to each other and vis fans and players with its wall to wall garbage plus its americanized the game to the point of it becoming ludicrous, not to mention creating a sport with people runing it that now suck the nipples of TV on demand at every turn and whim.

48. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 15:36 #43919

    Mixing things up a bit Spectrum, aren't we? People are multi-faceted in every aspect, and therefore spot things others don't, and evaluate in specifically different ways, employing differing criteria. Everything is relevant, or nothing. In answering with an opposing view it does not constitute an excuse. Truly! Of course corporate spin is at best reshaped truth and at worst deceitful. Remember the Titanic passed all British safety standards. Generally though on this site we are talking about intelligently couched responses. Just thought I should point that out.

49. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 15:29 #43918

    Westlower - "I still consider AFC a good bet to win PL, even with the most inept manager that ever crossed our threshold". Tongue in cheek from you I'm sure.Or perhaps you're contented that this may actually just be the case. And if we don't win the P.L.? Yep,we're stuck with that same inept manager.But then there's always next year to workout on that treadmill again, huh ? "In Arsene we rust."

50. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 15:15 #43917

    LOL - Good points. With A.K.B.'s everything is relative. Which comes in handy when attempting excuses for their cult leader. It reminds me of the well known stonewalling strategy of claiming for example, that "Our airline is completely safe.Yes it's unfortunate that 300 passengers were killed in the crash, but we have hundreds of thousands of happy and contented customers who travel on our planes every year and are never involved in these incidents." "In Arsene we rust."

51. Westlower

    Jan 08, 2014, 15:13 #43916

    Things for checklist when interviewing candidates to be the next Arsenal manager: Must be able to spot a lame duck, months/years before the injury occurs; must not show any signs of loyalty towards his players, nb, preference should be given to ex hanging judge; Must be reckless spending money to appease disgruntled fans; Must be relaxed about putting the club into financial difficulties, nb, experienced Portsmouth/Leeds personnel preferred; Must have the ability to disrupt team spirit by bringing in other clubs unwanted deadwood; Must be a good friend of Mike Dean, as we may get a decision go our way, eventually; Must be able to throw a pizza at the opposing manager in the tunnel;

52. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 08, 2014, 15:11 #43915

    Ron, the last 20 years have seen the rise of the stat-based football supporter, I'd say in great part due to Sky bombarding us with stats no one cared or even knew about before. So at Arsenal, the more 'narrative' based supporter sees the 'story' fall flat in early Spring for the same set of reasons a few times in a row and decides to call for a change at the top. The stat-based supporter finds this ludicrous. After all, the points per pound stat (if I'm still permitted to reference it) has been upheld, AFC have finished above a team with a higher wage bill - what's anyone complaining about. Obviously any single supporter exists on more of a continuum or spectrum, but I reckon the narrative/stat dichotomy is a useful mechanism for explaining much of the conflict between supporters of the same club witnessing the same phenomena. But of course I would say that wouldn't I, as I came up with it. If we do finish say 3rd this season, the arguments on here will be as predictable as Amos and Spectrum not getting on.

53. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 15:02 #43914

    Amos - On last minute deals - Can you explain why it is that Wenger habitually seems to make late or very late signings, whereas this particular idiosynchrasy of his doesn't affect other managers - they all seem to have little or no trouble recruiting their targets expeditiously.If I recall correctly, wasn't Arshavin for example, also pursued by Wenger for, in comparison, a relatively modest 15 million I think it was - at the time, only for the deal to almost fall through - again in the very last minutes before midnight on the last day of the window ? Perhaps you have the inside info. on that too ? "In Arsene we rust."

54. Amos

    Jan 08, 2014, 15:00 #43913

    Interesting point as to just when do you make a decision whether it's worth persevering with players who seem injury prone? Notwithstanding that contractual obligations don't allow total freedom. We seemed to have got it right making the decision to hold onto RvP a little longer than many were advocating at the time. Given his contribution to their title win last season Fergie may not have made a mistake ignoring his injury record but might that be revised in time? Should we have persisted with Rosicky as long as we did? He seems to be a pretty useful squad player now having done so. If it's bad management to sign a player with a prior injury record does that make Fergie negligent in signing Hargreaves? Or are the risks just not that easy to quantify?

55. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 14:56 #43912

    Spectrum judging a player's previous injury record and deciding whether to stick or twist is an art, not a science. There is much merit in what you say of course, but everyone judges differently. It's easy to state the obvious with a certain hindsight that Diaby is a medical problem, but we would have missed out on Rosicky's Indian Summer, perhaps you would have shipped out Ramsey and Dudu? These are just my reflections. Personally I think Diaby is a very gifted footballer. If he returns in the close season and performs at the highest level without injury, would it have been correct to persevere with him? A rhetorical question but nonetheless a consideration.

56. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 14:48 #43911

    Ron - On Diaby and his injury record. Naturally we can't blame him for being prone to them. But the fact is that he IS, and has been missing far too many matches as a result.And seeing this, Wenger should have cut his losses long ago and shipped him out. But he won't, because Diaby, like Ramsey, is one of his favourites, a teacher's pet. Therefore, does his attitude of putting the interests of the individual ahead of that of THE TEAM, not further disadvantage us ? I believe it does.I have never understood why managers'in general fail to thoroughly scrutinise a potential signing's injury record before taking them on.If I was a manager, I'd see a long list of knocks and breaks as a flashing red light, and stay well clear. Wouldn't you ? Why take an unnecessary risk, when doing so could likely result in that player, no matter how talented he is, being sidelined for much of the season(s).How is that cost efficient ? It isn't. It is irresponsible bad management in my view."In Arsene we rust."

57. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 14:38 #43910

    Hi Spectrum. You are a buddy of mine already by appreciating George Harrison. You are so right on that score regarding his song writing...and his performances I might add. JL is my main man, but as the years have rolled away George has clambered up onto the same pedestal. Liked much of Paul's melodic refrains, even dear old Bongo had his moments, but am still identified as a Beatle-lover. I'm in the zone at the moment listening to Dark Horse. Discussed recently with Ron about 'Extra Texture'. With all George's recognition he remains underestimated. You must admire some of my taste in managers. I've seen a few, Whittaker, Crayston, Swindin, Wright, Mee, Neill, Graham, Rioch and Arsene. Some more impressive than others, but all operating within their time slots, and achieving, whilst furthering the Arsenal, and maintaining our class.

58. Amos

    Jan 08, 2014, 14:35 #43909

    @Lol. It's possible to know that Ozil and Wenger discussed a potential transfer 3 years ago before Ozil joined real because both have publicly confirmed it. Simple enough really. Was £40m a joke bid or just the price Suarez's agents said was needed? We know that was the clause Suarez thought he had because the PL confirmed it but according to Liverpool (and as Suarez was in a protected period of contract) any figure would have been a joke, so should we not have bid at all? As for Higuain the deal had been done with Napoli once they agreed to sell Cavani. Arsenal was just a stalking horse for Higuains agents but in any event he hasn't performed any better in Serie A than Giroud has for us so far this season. Had we bought him how many of you, whether favouring single or multiple identities, would now be berating Wenger for signing a Real reserve instead of the 'real deal' top notch world class striker that must surely be available on the first day that the transfer window opens?

59. Westlower

    Jan 08, 2014, 14:33 #43908

    Badarse, Before you get tempted to pursue your gambling instincts I must warn you that betting may be bad for your wealth/health. First, seek wise council with your local MP, priest/vicar/bishop, samaritan, favourite barmaid, Robbie Savage (font of all knowledge), Finsbury Joe and last but not least, AW'S groupie fan, Spectrum (rust never sleeps). I still consider AFC a good bet to win PL, even with the most inept manager that ever crossed our threshold.

60. Emile Heskey

    Jan 08, 2014, 14:29 #43907

    Dear Mr Wenger, I understand you are looking for suitable backup for your striker Giroud. I believe I am comparable to the aforementioned. I can hold up the ball and bring others into play. I have the pace of a carthorse ( I'm 35 now ) and I am an infrequent scorer. Best of all I am available at a very low price. Regards Emil

61. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 14:16 #43906

    SGRB - Hard not to remember me - what with my familiar, well worn but still very relevant catchphrase.On Amos - Yes, I do enjoy a bit of cut and thrust with the ever faithful but continually deluded A.K.B.'s, who have had somewhat of a renaissance lately ( bless them ) given our ( well, at least so far ) successful campaign.As I point out in my posts at that other site I mentioned - you know - the one that always tells the er, "Truth" ( sssshh ! )our success I believe, is down to the improved defence thanks entirely to Bould being permitted with much reluctance no doubt, greater control over the team, and the much needed and considerable it turns out, psychological impact of the Ozil signing. Which whilst it is still lifting the team to greater heights, is now dissipating amongst we, the supporters. This dissipation is useful in that it refocuses attention on the man I / we consider to be our biggest obstacle to sustained success ( guess who ? ) Now,can we expect you to contribute your excellent posts over at the site I alluded to soon, SGRB ? I sincerely hope so. " In Arsene we rust."

62. LOL

    Jan 08, 2014, 14:13 #43905

    Amos is brilliant. So Amos, Arsene 'tried' to sign Ozil 3 years ago...is this the same manner he 'tried' to sign Luis Suarez (with a joke bid), 'tried' to sign Hazard (by annoying Lille) and 'tried' to sign HIGUAIN? HAHAHA. Superb what Arsene's little helpers will come out with! So Amos, if you're berating others for not knowing what the facts are, how can you be so certain Wenger DID try and sign him 3 years ago> Oh that's right. You do not have readily verifiable facts to hand. It's like this. There are 'fans' like Amos who wille excuse and legislate for anything. I mean FFS who says they are 'happy' with the progression of the club these past 9 years? We've won less than bloody Wigan but hey, other teams also lost cup finals so it's OK! Failure is ok if we have someone to share it with! Pathetic stance. Arsene Wenger is paid handsomely to WIN. The Ozil deal smells suspiciously that it wasn't Wenger and hsi hand was forced. If not, we already saw Wenger's hand earlier in the window with the two absolute farcical 'transfers' of first Higuain, and then Suarez. The other thing I'm cracking up at, is the fact that I am hearing that finding a striker 'better than Giroud' in the window will be hard. Errr. Is this the same Giroud who is third choice striker for France, behind a Championship striker currently on loan at newcastle (Loic Remy?). The deluded fans here are the AKBs indeed, with their nonsensical 'logic'. The trophy count of zero in 9 has been pointed out already. So until anyone can point to anything Wenger has WON in 9 years, then that is all. Oh and PS ain't it funny how every time Wenger is failing in March we are told 'Judge him in May'...but all of a sudden this new year, it's ok to judge him in January? Aaaaah I see!

63. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 08, 2014, 14:00 #43904

    Westlower, yes moral is high and was even higher all round over the weekend after stuffing the spuds again, only to be brought back down with the Walcott news. OGL has a chance to do something about it, and keep that moral high, with a moral boosting signing, lets hope he does,it worked with Ozil. It's Alvaro Morato alright being talked about on loan but as we all know talk is cheap.

64. Westlower

    Jan 08, 2014, 14:00 #43903

    Spectrum, You're overlooking one important stat. Arsene Wenger is the most successful manager in Arsenal's history! FACT!! He's taken us from being an unpredictable yo yo club to being one of the top seeds in European football by dint of being in the Champions League every year of his tenure. AFC are at a different level to the club he walked into in 1996. Thankfully mid table mediocrity has never been on the agenda in Wenger's reign. No club in the PL has a sounder base to progress in the future than AFC. Onwards and Upwards!

65. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 13:54 #43902

    Badarse - Hello. You mentioned listening to George Harrison's "Living In The Material World." Great album, and the title track itself is my favourite. George, though not as prolific a songwriter as John and Paul, nevertheless had songs that quality wise, were right up there with them.I admire your taste in music, if not in Arsenal managers ! "In Arsene we rust."

66. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 13:45 #43901

    Yeah Ron, just caught westie's coat tails disappearing around the door. I shall have to take up this betting lark. Oh, and you misread his quote he meant Les Miserables old gits. Quite a difference there Ron, though not sure who is the most unfortunate of us three. My medication takes effect rapidly Ron, I'm now bouncing, imagining myself back on the North Bank, saluting a Charlie George rocket of a goal, and oh look! He's saluting us right back. Where are those pills!

67. Amos

    Jan 08, 2014, 13:44 #43900

    @spectrum. You've already decided my answer will be the wrong one (many here have much the same mindset) so I'm not expecting too much but as you've clearly not looked into what information is freely available surrounding the Ozil transfer and the complex relationships between other deals which meant that the transfer was held up until the last minute (not in itself any great surprise most deals are concluded towards the very end of the transfer window) then perhaps you would benefit from now doing so. In the meantime it should be noted that Wenger tried to sign Ozil 3 years ago, and they spoke together at that time, before, understandably perhaps, he elected to go to Real. Wenger has long been an admirer which is why he was willing to recruit a player who has already become one of the leagues leading assist makers. As for frugality and stubbornness it should be understood that so far in this transfer season Wenger has spent less than in either of the previous two years so his reputation for either characteristic needn't have been compromised even by this 'panic' buy if that is your preferred view.

68. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 13:44 #43899

    Wenger's derisory bid of 50 million pounds plus 1 for Suarez, is evidently coming back to haunt us. Whatever you think of his temperament and ethics, the player is pure class on the field - as Liverpool are finding to their joy.The irony is that he could have been OURS if Wenger had bitten the bullet at the time and got serious.He even stated that he WANTED TO COME TO US. This lack of us signing him, could well turn out to be Wenger's biggest blunder since he handed Man.Utd.the league by selling Van Persie to them. "Easy to say with hindsight." I hear some say. Not at all. You only have to look at his record of scoring to know that he has a natural instinct for goals. He's done that at all his clubs.I'm only a footballing layman, but even I could see what Wenger and his scouts apparently couldn't, while he was at Ajax.That the man has incredible talent. I wanted us to sign him then. But no, Arsene knows best, doesn't he, A.K.B.'s ? If there's truth to the saying " You only get what you pay for", that must be why we have the likes of Bendtner, Park Chu-Young and Sanogo on our books. "In Arsene we rust."

69. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 13:37 #43898

    BADARSE - Westie s already popped his head around the door mate (see above). Good grief, sit down again, youre rushing your recovery again and its worrying me matey. Only teasing you buddy! - See how hes deemed us 'miserable old gits' and then ran off. Ill give him miserable, but im not having 'old'!!

70. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 13:27 #43897

    So true Amos. I can't pretend to understand the financial aspects of our club in it's minutiae form, but I have an inbuilt respect for the diligence performed by those in the driving seat. Without going all cosmic we only ever inherit AFC. Then we get to borrow the Arsenal for a while, 'til it's passed onto the next generation. So my club needs to be guarded well. Then there is the whiskered argument of Arsene only bringing on duds. Like Fabregas, RvP, Nasri, and Adebayor! Selective points pursued constantly. 'Oh, I spot a tasty tail. I'm after it!' Anyway, here is to the second half of the show this afternoon. Over to the rest of you guys, the best sit-down comedians on the circuit. I'll lay odds of 2/1 that westie will appear before the final curtain.

71. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 13:25 #43896

    Spectrum - In AW s defence though ive always said that Diaby is one of those players who can really play football when and if hes ever fit. Ill always recall Anfield back in 08 in the CL, when Gerrard and Co couldnt get near him, such was the grace and power of Diabys game, partic first half, where none other than Ferguson suggested that our performance that night was 'perhaps the best away showing in the CL hed ever seen'. Shame we lost to Liverpools cheating that night. Im amazed he averages that amount of games tbh. I wd have guessed about 8 games ps! Surprising indeed. Hes one who project youth could have claimed as a success if not for his unfitness in my view.

72. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 13:23 #43895

    Amos said ; "....there's a balance of probabilities that makes far more rational sense". Let me ask you this, Amos ; On the "balance of probabilities", knowing Wenger's renowned past stubborness and frugality in the transfer market ( to the club's continued great detriment ), does splashing out 42 million ( on the VERY LAST DAY of the window with minutes to go, I should add ), sound to you like he has voluntarily undergone a "conversion on the road to Damascus", and changed the habit of a lifetime? Or is it MORE PROBABLE that being under intense pressure from the board, with calls for his head and a revolt imminent amongst the supporters, he was FORCED reluctantly to purchase Ozil ? It's a no-brainer really, isn't it ? Which is why you'll "PROBABLY" come up with the wrong answer ! "In Arsene we rust."

73. Westlower

    Jan 08, 2014, 13:17 #43894

    Moscow, I hope it's Alvaro Morato you're referring to? JJ, You're not negative & belligerent; you're just a miserable old git, like the rest of us! In truth, things are going so well, save Theo's injury, that we're unsure what to moan about but I'm certain we'll think of something anytime soon. It was funny listening to Manc's on the radio this morning complaining that the greatest club on the planet still haven't replaced Roy Keane. Endless bad signings including Veron, Anderson, Nani, Djemba Djemba, etc. Good signings are rare indeed!

74. Amos

    Jan 08, 2014, 13:09 #43893

    Well that makes two of us then badarse. This place is hilarious! Have you yet noticed that the term 'net spend per player or net spend per point' is most often used by malcontents? It seems to have taken on some magical quality which, provided you avoid any discussion about the actual data referenced (that wouldn't help at all!), is enough to justify all manner of dissatisfactions. It's just another straw man of course to be brought out when cogent arguments cannot be found - but funny to observe nonetheless.

75. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 13:07 #43892

    Ike - Well said, sir ! Put those A.K.B.'s back in their boxes. And don't forget that other big stat and FACT - No Arsenal manager has gone longer without a trophy than Arsene Wenger. Nor has he won anything in Europe, despite other managers of lesser "stature" and equal or less resources than us, having done so. And on players - not only does he waste money on players that turn out to be flops, but persists in having faith in Abou Diaby, a man with a laundry list of injuries who as a result only averages 17.5 games a season for us ! Yet collects what - 60,000 a week plus to lay on the treatment table, where he,( due to his continued absence from the team ), presumably is right now. Then there's that invisible man - Park Chu-Young. Remember him ? You may not, as he's hardly made an appearance since he joined us.I hope we see more of you on here, Ike. Cheers. "In Arsene we rust."

76. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:56 #43891

    Stop it Amos! I am crying with laughter. Hi jjetplane, glad you enjoy the entertainment. You are right, this is a wonderful site. @SGRB, together, together, together- I visualise you, Green Hut, and myself doing a 'Morecambe and Wise' skipping off the stage routine. Could be a worse sight though, substituting Ron and westie for you two dudes.

77. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:45 #43890

    JJ - Ive written to BADARSE invitng him in for an appointment. Its in hand matey, but he s a redoubtable chap and he always comes through these episodes. We just need to support our mate at this difficult time!! 3 points at Villa are on order as well to soothe his moist brow. PS Like you mate, ive a soft spot for the Hammers. Always have had. How can a cretin like Allardyce have ended up there mate? Crimiinal. Then with the porno kings on board i suppose tradition counts for little. What would Lyall and Greenwood think of seeing your Nolan types besmirching the place?

78. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:37 #43889

    Course we have lots in common, Badarse, with just the odd divergence here and there like you always say.

79. Amos

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:35 #43888

    Before inviting others to get into a tangle it might be worth trying to untangle to some of the other convoluted messages being proposed here. We need to by proven players but Ozil was a £42.5m panic, buy foisted on us by Stan who doesn't want to spend any money, who isn't as good as Ramsey who we shouldn't have bought because he's a mere £6m Cardiff boy. At the same time, though we are top of the league at present we are actually doing worse than last season but we will never ever get a better chance of winning the title despite being worse than last season. I don't know how many are being entertained by such propositions (those hiding behind multiple identities tend to mask the numbers) but I'm finding it all a real hoot!

80. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:35 #43887

    SGRB - Not to mention the vital ' net spend per player or net spend per point bullsh--e' thats trotted out so often on here, that all Gunners fans spend all of their time contemplating all day long of ocurse!!It just shows how the spin has permeated and pickled the thinking of so many though doesnt it. It maybe explains why the stadium is very often like a morgue as well? When did football supporting become that complex?

81. jjetplane

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:31 #43886

    This is turning out to be a rum old season with .... wait for it! Arsenal in the driving seat! I think the comedy that is the current manure/spud narrative is lessening the pressure on Arsenal while making citeh and the chavs more liable to that self complacency that affects any individualist outfit. I predict a profound bedding in for young Serge and if the rumours be felt, someone will turn at the Emmy from the Iberian peninsula. February of course will be the wheat from the chaff reckoning but somehow I think if we extend the work rate as shown against the spuds and use that quick fire passing for the right moments in a match then we might have a season we can all feel proud about. I am known for the odd belligerence, negativity et al but that is simply the passion of being a fan of Arsenal. At the present time the 'drugs are working' and players are stepping up and I hope some of that fire is the result of Bouldie's contribution. He is still there and is possibly more of an anchor than we will ever know. The two sad bits of news was the injury to young Walcott after he had just stuck in a finally, measured performance upfront and seeing that young hammer cry at the Forest thrashing show. That man Alladyce is a villian and why I mention this is because I have a bit of time for that particulat London club whereas the rest - well you know the songs .... @Ron You need to look at @badarse's dosages again! and get the party out for @Westie! Pleasure to post on such a passionate site.

82. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:24 #43885

    See SGRB! We do have things in common, the suggestion of your mucker getting entangled with Amos makes for a big smile. So does drifting along to George Harrison's 'Material World', now there is a modern AFC theme if ever there was.

83. Moscow Gooner

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:21 #43884

    Westlower - you're asking the wrong question here: we're essentially looking for a player to replace Bendtner as the first choice back up to Giroud. Put in those terms it hardly looks like 'Mission Impossible'...

84. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:20 #43883

    Hello Spectrum, yes I do remember you. Perhaps Wenger is looking at the risk/reward ratio and considers we're nailed on for a top 4 spot as we are and doesn't want to disrupt 'squad harmony'. Anyway, why don't you see if you can get in a tangle with Amos (that's if you haven't provoked him already). That'd be entertaining for the rest of us...

85. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:12 #43882

    Hi radfordkennedy, my matelot mate. Here's a tip, Andy Williams' 'Home Lovin' Man', (your signature tune), play it tonight for your lady, wear a rose behind your ear and sashay across the room, winking as you go. It will remind her of why she is still with you. Ah, the medication is kicking in now!

86. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:04 #43880

    SGRB - Sorry. I accidentally called you "Green Boy".( It is a slight mouthful after all. )I'll stick to a simple SGRB from now on. Ha-ha. "In Arsene we rust."

87. radfordkennedy

    Jan 08, 2014, 12:02 #43879

    With all the wind and rain since coming home I've needed a bit of a cheer up to be honest and seeing the spuds get beat was great,but I can always depend on the online gooner to make me laugh..Ron's Tottenham chickens was funny but reading that buying a player is now called an 'external solution'now that did make me smile...I've heard reports of us closing in on madrids young striker moratti I think his mame was does anyone know if he's any good

88. Spectrum

    Jan 08, 2014, 11:52 #43878

    Stroud Road Green Boy - Hello mate. Remember me ? We were on that other website ( that I'm not allowed to name ) that went into recess, but has now ( good news ! ) started up again. So we're a quarter of the way into the January window already, and surprise surprise the "reformed" new look "free spending" Wenger is yet to make a SIGNIFICANT purchase.What could possibly be the reason for this I wonder ? Don't our scouts have a list of top targets that they've handed to the manager ? One presumes so. So what are we waiting for ? We're cashed up, with plenty left over due to negligently not utilising ALL the money from last August, and Wenger assures us that "he's not afraid to spend big money" after the Ozil move. Then there's the latest " I won't buy for the sake of it." Hmmmm. Haven't we been in this situation many times before ? Doesn't this all sound very familiar ? Has O.G.L. really changed his approach ? Or was this all a concocted sham to fool us into thinking he's learned from his ( many ) mistakes ? "In Arsene we rust."

89. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 10:51 #43877

    Oh dear the philosophical BADARSE has awoken, that's because I mentioned him by name, so I shall blame this on you Green Hut. An analogy for people to ink in the comparisons, mentally or otherwise. Other day Neil Young performed at Carnegie Hall, and interrupted his rendition of 'Ohio' because the audience were clapping. Think also doing the phone camera thing and talking. He came close to insulting the audience. So we have people who have genetically evolved with the changing times. They no longer follow the old style concert audiences. We have an artist who has matured and cannot work with the newer types' behaviour. The background for those unaware is that 'Ohio' is a poignant Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young original. It is about the slaughter of the Kent University students in Ohio by the National Guard in 1970. So a lot going on within the framework of an incident which is typical of the times we live in. At least I see it this way. Oh and yes back in the real world Man.U lost again. Whoops!

90. Stan

    Jan 08, 2014, 10:45 #43876

    Howdy Amos. A signed photo of myself is on its way to you. P&P not included/Normal terms apply.

91. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 10:05 #43875

    GH - BADARSE can be right old grouch cant he when his medication's been changed!! Morning guys. It cd be worse fella s. We could be Man ure!

92. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 9:53 #43874

    Green Hut, as a teacher-type with a bedrock of philosophical thought going on permanently between my ears I am extremely careful to nurture the spirit within the young I encounter, (and the not so young), spirit is vital, so it must never be dampened down. It does require harnessing, or redirecting on occasions though, my spirit too. It is those with spirit, the determination and drive which effects the change which we all benefit from, however it can be misconstrued. Our governments would lead us, with bags of spirit,( or should that be bottles?), into the abyss. So someone needs to put the brakes on the driverless carriage, and it is those who step into the firing line and protest who influence. I don't need to tell your grandmother how to suck eggs, you are sharp enough. I hope in these exchanges you genuinely see that you and I are just a different shade of grey, but grey nonetheless. @Ron, hi pal. Was that spiel OK, I didn't mention finances, ha ha.

93. Green Hut

    Jan 08, 2014, 8:58 #43873

    BADARSE- No apology necessary, I'm sure I deserved it and I'm even surer I'll deserve it again in the near future but I'll just try and remember not to pick on BADARSE next time!

94. Westlower

    Jan 08, 2014, 8:51 #43872

    There seems to be mixed views on whether we should be buying a striker to replace or cover for Giroud. If it's to replace him I suspect no such player of sufficient quality is available in January. If it's a head count player needed then many mediocre players are available but would soon be deemed useless by those now squealing for such a player to come in. AFC would later be accused of doing yet more bad business in the transfer market.

95. Ron

    Jan 08, 2014, 8:20 #43871

    Surely theres a Ray Hankin, John Hawley or a John Sneddon out there somewhere! Lets discuss fella s. Anything except barrack room Company Law theories!!

96. BADARSE

    Jan 08, 2014, 7:56 #43870

    Apologies Green Hut, that was rude. My rant is over. Sorry we were exchanging at the time, it could have been any of a number of others. Sometimes the real/ugly BADARSE emerges, but thankfully is quickly put back in his box and locked away again in the cupboard under the stairs. No hard feelings chum, the frustrations of AFC affects me too, as you can see.

97. Dark Hei

    Jan 08, 2014, 7:32 #43869

    The fans over here are the most depressing; makes the bunch at Le Grove a bunch of top top AKBs. This season we are top of the league, get to laugh at Van Grey, signed ourselves an Ozil and we are still moaning more than a toddler going to school.

98. Amos

    Jan 08, 2014, 0:38 #43868

    @ike. I am pleased that people like me make you laugh Ike. Heaven knows you certainly need someone to cheer you up!!!! Ozil wasn't always valued at £42.5m you know and both Ozil and Wenger have confirmed that he tried to sign him before he went to Real. Unsurprisingly Real proved more attractive at the time. Don't be too disparaging about Cardiff boy. Jeff reckons he's worth more than Ozil! As for unique chance this season Jeff will probably take exception to that too because his points analysis actually shows we're in a worse position than last season! So don't get too carried away! I feel your pain at the absence of a trophy for NINE years I really do - but though I'm disappointed we haven't had anything shiny to wave for a while I'm happy with the development of the club and who knows - we may not have to wait another 9 years if you hang around long enough. (If it helps ease the pain a little Arsenal aren't alone in losing in a final to a relegated side. Some have done so despite spending a heck of a lot more money)

99. Amos

    Jan 08, 2014, 0:21 #43867

    @jeff wright. I don't see that my views on the comparisons you have attempted to make have changed at all. Each season has its own dynamics but undeniably we're doing better so far this season that we were at the same stage last season however many points we have and from wherever we picked them up. Where we end has still to be determined. The story about the shares offered to ADUG is interesting because what they were apparently offered was a 25% holding - more than Fiszman held at the time - but they declined because they were unable to obtain more and therefore a controlling stake. Usmanov was the only one able to offer a tranche of 25% at the time. It was suggested that he was trying to get out because he knew he couldn't take control. Whatever the myths, fantasies, stories and gossip though we all know what has happened and whatever reservations Fizsman might have had about Kroenke Stan was able to assuage them and those of the other controlling shareholders. The rest is just froth and bubble. What matters is how the club is being managed now and so far it is very professionally and with better investments in player budgets since Kroenke took control than we have had before. By ALL accounts??? By what accounts was the Ozil deal forced on Wenger by Stan and Perez? The accounts of some conspiracy theorist bloggers??? Give me a break nobody really knows exactly what happened other than those directly involved but unless you're a dyed in the wool conspiracy nut and have just refused to follow the actions and interest of those involved there's a balance of probabilities that makes far more rational sense. You can't debate a conspiracy theory with a conspiracy theorist though - you are simply attributed as part of the conspiracy.

100. Ike

     Jan 07, 2014, 23:49 #43866

     I've just re-read some of Amos' views and can only conclude that it is either Arsene himself writing in or it's his wife. Because no one can be located that far up Wenger's rectum. Apparently, Wenger had been "tracking Ozil for some time" Amos? But hold on, how is that possible, since you've spent the past several trophyless years of failure bleating about how hard up financially Arsene was? If I'm on £12k a year, I sure as hell don't spend time "tracking" a £120k Porsche. Ah yes but I forget. Its cos Arsene built the Emirates with his own two hands. Without forgetting our youth policy, that has seen us spend upwards of £12m on a Southampton kid, again returning to Southampton to spend upward of £15mil on another of their kids, spending over £6mil on Cardiff boy Ramsey, offering Cesc stupid money to leave the Barca academy etc. In the real world there's been just one Arsenal youth success story under Wenger and his name was Ashley Cole and he was the best left back in Europe. And what did Wenger do? Gift wrapped him to Chelski to give them years of success, they even have a CL now! (But Arsene has that amazing qualification record lol). I find it hilarious to see the baseless praise of Wenger being sung by his choir boys when one simple stat tells the story so accurately: Arsene Wenger, £7.5m a year salary, Zero trophies in NINE YEARS. That is all. So you can shove your "net spends", "points per spend", "balance sheet" etc. This is football and you win or you've failed as a big club. Simple. Wenger has had 9 years to build a super team and he even got beat by a relegated side in a cup final. Go on, job on Arsene's choir boys please...

101. Ike

     Jan 07, 2014, 23:33 #43865

     People like Amos etc make me laugh. So let me see. The summer just gone by wasn't "the right time" to get that quality striker (sorry but Giroud is decent, nowhere near top class). Diego Costa, Luis Suarez and a chap called Higuain were all available over summer. And yet , Wenger gambled on Giroud alone. And now January might "not be the right time" again. So I'll ask WHEN is the right time? Why am I hearing. "It's defeatist to say it's the only time we will have a chance" when the same ppl denying this are the same ridiculous Wenger apologists who have been bitching that we " cannot compete" with Citeh/ Chelski etc . Arsenal are top of the league no with a unique chance, that can only be undone by Wenger's usual transfer market incompetence. Ozil or no Ozil, the summer window was a disaster. Fabianski should not be Arsenal number 2, but no competition was brought in for him. The stroke situation was a farce. And no , Flamini is not the answer. There's far better players than him out there - of course though, he was cheap which seems Arsene's priority. We have a unique chance this season but I suspect Wenger will once again, screw us.

102. jeff wright

     Jan 07, 2014, 23:28 #43864

     Amos,your views on points won by comparison to a previous season has obviously changed from the ones you posted the other night.I will desist from further comment though because it is all becoming rather pointless. I don't know how this value for money per player that Wenger is said to be better at than others works,but it obviously must be a financial thing and not a trophy winning one. Is this Kroneke, who you claim Danny the tax-exile saw as being a suitably morally candidate to take over from himself, the same one that Dan got rid of Arsene's pal David Dein for after he had tried to sell some shares to him ? And surely it can't be the same Kroneke who PHW said of,we don't want his sort here !Blimey , you couldn't make it up,only in AKB land... Actually, Amos , I'm not a Usmanov supporter as you imply, in fact I was merely saying that he, or someone of a similar financial standing, was likely to be the type that Kranky would sell his shares to. You do not find many Mother Teresa's in the financial world- or anywhere else either. It's actually been claimed that Fiszman was involved at one time in trying to sell his shares to the same Arabs that own City now - and also to some Russian consortium . Whatever,but we do know though that he was not originally happy about selling them to Stan .There must have been some thing that he didn't like about the guy? In the end though he did sell him his shares after Stan had cobbled together the millions that Diamond Danny tax-exiled in Swissland.. it's not all cuckoo clocks there .. wanted for them. I don't believe that Ozil was on Wenger's radar as you claim, drum roll and cue the East Enders theme... by all accounts the deal was forced onto him by San and - Ivan after Perez contacted them to say that Ozil was surplus to requirements for Ancelotti ,who wanted rid of him. Desperate men and all that. The club actually issued a statement saying that Stan was 'fully involved in signing Ozil'. In your world Amos everything that Arsene does is planned and makes sense, in the real world however this is far from being the case. If only!

103. Amos

     Jan 07, 2014, 22:41 #43863

     @jeff wright. Your comparison of results last year playing sides with the same names but in many cases with different managers, different players and at different times and claiming that proves we are doing worse than last year isn't fact at all. It's a just an extrapolation based on your own opinion. Our present league position shows that we are doing better than at the same stage last season. If we end up higher than we did last year it shows we have done better than last year, irrespective of our results against any of the other teams, if we end up in the same spot or lower it will show we have performed either no better or worse. It's that simple. As for Kroenke he has minority and majority interests in the US as well as those he owns outright but he is the controlling shareholder of Arsenal and a board director along with his son. He alone appoints its executives and controls the business totally - more than simple investor. Whether he sells his shares in Arsenal at some point is of no interest to me unless he sells it to a convicted criminal like Usmanov who only sees it as a trophy with which to play billionaire's poker with crooked friends. I would hope, as Fizsman seems to have done, that he would try to ensure the club goes to someone willing to run it on the same lines. Fortunately he doesn't seem in any hurry to sell and looks, at this stage anyway, as though he's in it for the long run. As for Usmanov, as Lady Nina found, there aren't too many buyers for a minority holding with a single majority shareholder. The only real prospective buyer is Kroenke but he doesn't need to buy so if he did the price would have to be right. Usmanov said when he first bought into the club that he was buying the shares as an investment and immediately asked the club to start paying a dividend. All Kroenke has to do is wait long enough. Ozil wasn't a panic buy. Wenger has rated him for some time and was patient enough to wait until what he really wanted became available. As I've said he's already one of the league's leading assist makers so we're making use of him but he's not a buy for one season. As for Ramsey he was an investment in youth - a value purchase. They don't all pay off but even those that 'fail' we can still profit from. As in the case of Pennant and others like Bentley. The true costly errors were players like Arshavin and to a lesser extent Reyes. Arshavin cost us more over the time he was with us than Denilson, Bendtner and Chamakh combined yet Denilson started and appeared in more games while Bendter as also made more appearances and scored more goals. It's always a value judgement whether you buy established players or young players. The figures show that Wenger has got that value judgement right more than most and certainly more often than those others spending their own revenues. You might lust for some sugar daddy benefactor to play the same game as Abramovich and Mansour but it seems those times have passed their peak. Far better for us to try to emulate what Bayern have achieved eventually.

104. Amos

     Jan 07, 2014, 22:11 #43861

     @SGRB. Of course I would be disappointed to end this season 3rd instead of 1st but then again I would be happier to end the season 3rd instead of 5th. I don't claim the last 8 years have been highly successful at all I simply see them as relatively succesful within the recent football landscape. For that reason I don't see the sense in comparing the success GG had recruiting players from then 2nd division of football with the present any more than I see the sense in trying to justify the success he did have with what Chapman achieved. I doubt that GG could have the same success in the modern game as he did 20 years ago but that doesn't diminish what he did achieve. Success is relative. For you winning the league cup and finishing outside a CL place might be success. For me it's failure. I'm a fan of the club not the owners or even it's manager. I just happen to think that so far they have got most of the big decisions right.

105. Green Hut

     Jan 07, 2014, 21:43 #43860

     BADARSE- Well that put me in my place!

106. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jan 07, 2014, 21:37 #43859

     SGRB, spot on we must have the driest powder known to man i'm surprised it hasn't just blown away in the wind. Yes goodness knows when we'll find ourselves in this position again and everything MUST now be done to give us the best chance, advantage, hope, etc, call it what you like to ensure we stay there, or get back again if we are knocked off the perch the chance has arrived wenger for goodness sake at least try and take it.

107. jeff wright

     Jan 07, 2014, 21:16 #43858

     Amos, I beg to differ comparing our results against same games played last season shows that we are in reality doing no better .This of course is not what you want to hear, but it is a fact. United who had 52 points after 20 played last season are obviously doing much worse this time around with no Persie factor to help and the old Gruppenführer now sitting watching from the stands instead of intimadating match officials , that is also a fact and explains why we and City and Chelsea ,plus others are doing better in the league than them this time , albeit with a lot less points on the table. I'm using your own argument about points won that you put up the other night to claim that we won more last season without RVP than in his last one with us. Although it was an odd claim taking account of our 4th place finish last season. Ozil in my view was a panic buy at the last moment brought about by the poor start to the season,a'la the late buys after the OT massacre - and had we started better and Wenger was aware that Ramsey was about to go nuclear then I doubt that Ozil would have been signed. Without a top striker to feed off him Ozil is wasted anyway ,as Arteta pointed out in those comments that he made. You seem convinced that some master plan is being carried out by Stan when in reality there is no such thing happening and like Wenger he is always just reacting to events. Stan is not an A Lister billionaire as Usmanov and the Arab's at City are - he borrowed the money to buy his shares in AFC and one day he will sell them. Probably to Usmanov or some one of similar financial standing. They will only buy though when the price is right. Stan owns his other clubs in America,he only has an investment in our one. On Ramsey and the youth policy no I'm not having that he was bought for a large amount of money - some times this pays off - but many times a'la Pennent and too many to mention it fails. RAmsey like Fabregas WAS nothing to do with Wenger's youth team . Same with Walcott and some others.

108. BADARSE

     Jan 07, 2014, 21:13 #43857

     OK Green Hut, not just money, but the manager too. You have little respect for Arsene Wenger. I suppose your imagined replacement would have done everything you expected him to do, had he not no doubt he too would have been railroaded had you had a say in it. Moyes was mooted as a replacement, he is fighting to hang onto his job, and losing the dressing room as we post. Fellaini was the man to see us through-where is he right now, not doing so well, is he? Keep RvP! It's not the real world. Easiest thing in the world to pick holes in things, to stand on the touchline bleating that you could do it better or you know someone who could. Criticising, negativity, whingeing. We haven't won a trophy for eight seasons? So what! Had the fates been kinder we could have had anything up to five more- no it was Arsene Wenger's fault. He gets us to a final just so that he can disappoint us by losing. Sometimes I am astonished at the level of griping. Top of the league, CL KO stage, just done Tottenham in the FA Cup. We have no idea whether a replacement will come in or not. A very good permanent buy would suit me, no one arrives and I will not throw a tantrum and stump up to my room. AFC are in a magnificent position as a club. We could see years of wonderful football with great opportunities being taken. I am very happy to be an Arsenal fan, and am in no way depressed, nor will I be more so if nobody comes in this month.

109. Sir Lee Chapman

     Jan 07, 2014, 21:03 #43856

     I do not mind making a return if the club need me.

110. Green Hut

     Jan 07, 2014, 20:04 #43854

     BADARSE- Money is certainly not the only reason for our trophy drought, but the perceived uncertainty over how much has been available always gives Wenger's followers a blanket excuse for their man.

111. Seven Kings Gooner

     Jan 07, 2014, 20:04 #43853

     There was a story that the board would not allow Wenger to go for Loic Remey in the close season, will he now be allowed to go back for him? He can play through the middle and wide, so he could provide cover for Giroud and Theo. Right now we have to buy proven experience and unfortunately in the January window most of the top players are settled. Remy would be better than nothing and if it did not work out he would still has some sell on value.

112. Stroud Green Road Boy

     Jan 07, 2014, 19:44 #43852

     Thanks for that insight into your perspective, Amos. Though I think seeing GG's 6 trophies in 8 years as a period of 'fluctuating success' isn't giving him the credit he deserves either. You're right that some supporters would not view the last 8 years as overall more successful than the GG 8 years, but that's because they view each season as a narrative, a story unfolding. Whereas you view it through a prism of stats. So, if we were to drop from here to finish, say, 3rd, many would see that as a disappointing end to the story. You on the other hand would look at the 'pounds per points' and relative wage bills and consider that AFC had overachieved and had a successful season. This narrative/stat difference in perspective explains why for some the last 8 years have been a series of disappointments, of 'plot letdowns', whilst for you (and others) they have been highly successful, and further explains whilst you're such a fan of the established power structure at the club and are keen to see it continue in the same fashion. This is an observation, not an attack.

113. Amos

     Jan 07, 2014, 19:38 #43851

     @jeff wright. I find your post a little confusing. Are you saying that we took an unwarranted and expensive gamble on Ozil (who is one of the PL's leading assist makes despite starting later than some) and owe more credit to Ramsey who might be someone closer to our youth policy? If so that seems to be making a case for the latter. The high ticket prices aren't welcome but matchday revenues are important and if the stadium continues to sell out the demand at those prices must still be there. Nonetheless broadcasting and commercial revenues are becoming more important than matchday income so maybe prices will settle in time. In order to do so though CL qualification must be taken more seriously than domestic cups. As for the points gained last season compared to this we're not playing last season's sides we're playing this seasons. It only matters that we gain more points than those teams around us by the end of the season.

114. Amos

     Jan 07, 2014, 19:21 #43850

     Depends what you mean by gamble SGRB? A £50m punt on a Torres or even a £35m punt on an Andy Carroll would undoubtedly inhibit our spending over the 4 or 5 years that the contract would normally run - especially if the residual value is minimal or non-existent. Taking a punt on a £7m Adebayor, selling him for £24m and then watch him turn back into a £5m player two years later though has its positives. The trick is to make the value call correctly not just to take a speculative gamble. That's the difference between investing in the squad and merely speculating with it. The more successful of the two periods you refer to for the club itself (but not seen that way by some supporters) has undoubtedly been the 8 years in which we've built a new stadium and state of the art training facilities (both in themselves huge revenue generating assets), the establishment of the club as one of the top football clubs in Europe (and top sporting teams in the world in fact), continuing to compete in a football landscape that has been distorted by the financial excesses of the last 10 years while now becoming one of financially strongest teams in football and capable of competing on an enduring basis. Undoubtedly the period of fluctuating success GG (didn't always get the credit he deserved in my book) brought us before lapsing to a mid table side with a reputation for dour football, along with the history stretching back to Chapman, are part of the foundations built in very different times but undoubtedly the two doubles, unbeaten season, 49 game unbeaten run, and a reputation for playing attractive football that neutrals can appreciate is a stronger part of where we are now. In short the last 8 years haven't been wasted.

115. jeff wright

     Jan 07, 2014, 18:48 #43849

     Amos, I know how we are run financially and that the highest ticket prices in football,just raised even higher by Stan, play a large part in it. Settling for a minor top 4 place and the CL TV cash, by hoarding cash instead of investing it on buying players, such as a super-super striker to help us have a chance of winning a trophy, is another aspect of Stan's plan. Is it all really any different this season ? My view is no it is not. A combination of circumstances , other than Jupiter being in junction with Mars, being at work are responsible for our decent run of results in the league up until we played Everton,City and Chelsea over Xmas. The early season unexpected Ramsey heroics are one of them,rather than the signing of Ozil,who has in reality only made a minor impact , and I have not seen him pick up any player of the month awards. The early run of winnable fixtures, marred only by losing at home to Villa and dropping 2 points away against West Brom, who we beat last season, as we also did Villa, mean that we are points down on same games played last season. We gained 2 points v Liverpool though but overall are still points down against last season's sides ,so far. Beating the newbies has helped our overall points total . Cardiff twice, and a wins against Hull and Palace. We still have those pair to play again and Wenger with his record against City,Chelsea and United,will be praying for another 6 points off them. I stick with my view , reinforced by the poor results against the better sides at Xmas, that with out big investment in our squad by bringing in some top players that we are in reality just playing for the usual 4th or 3rd spot in the league. And that the current policies ,far from securing our position for the future, are in fact endangering it as each season without winning a trophy diminishes the status of our club at the top table of football.

116. Stroud Green Road Boy

     Jan 07, 2014, 18:39 #43848

     Amos, are you saying that 'pushing for success' this season (by, for example, gambling on a signing this January) would damage the club's capacity to compete on an enduring basis? Also, out of curiosity, which league record do you consider more successful - GG's eight years (2 titles, few times out of the top 4) or AW's last eight years (0 titles, top 4 every time)?

117. Amos

     Jan 07, 2014, 18:05 #43847

     @Bard. FFP may prove toothless it may not. I did say it remains to be proven but I don't think you need to read too much into the £90m City spent last summer as yet as FFP is a cumulative inhibitor. It will take a while yet for any effects to be felt on relative squad building as I'd pointed out. But in any case FFP is only a nod in our direction (as is the EU investigation in Spanish clubs finances) @jeff wright. I'm not sure what you mean by Kroenke having control only on sufferance? He holds more than two thirds of the issued capital and gained that control because he was more successful in persuading the previous controlling shareholders to sell to him and not to Usmanov. Usmanov is reluctantly a minority shareholder under sufferance. Kroenke has all the control he needs. Usmanov doesn't have the power to make war - he can only make some impotent noise from time to time. You're right that in order for Kroenke to maximise commercial revenues he needs sporting success. A point he made himself at the last AGM. It's that need that should encourage the understanding that this season isn't a once in a lifetime push for success - and enduring success itself relies on the capacity to retain the ability to compete on an enduring basis - which basis the policy over a number of years has been rooted in. In order to be a successful football club we need to be a successful business and if you're uncertain as to how well we are run financially then the R&A, going back over a number of years, are freely available.

118. BADARSE

     Jan 07, 2014, 17:40 #43846

     Green Hut reaching a cup final is an achievement. True it isn't as much of one as winning said cup. So is a top four finish. Once more it isn't quite the achievement that becoming champions would bring. I am not depressed by being an Arsenal fan in general, that description hasn't been valid throughout my privileged time as an Arsenal fan. I have highs and lows along the way, and a mix of emotions visit me from time to time. I am genuinely sorry that you have been depressed by occurrences since 2005. The fact is it comes down to money. That is what we are talking about. You believe we have plenty to spend and should, I am not so certain and think our policy is close to being a sensible one. A fundamental difference perhaps, but so, so small, in my opinion. Still, there you have it!

119. Green Hut

     Jan 07, 2014, 17:24 #43845

     BADARSE- Agreed, many Arsenal fans are fine with what's happened since 2005. I find that depressing, I'm sure you don't. I would also concur that some would reasonably see a lost cup final as an achievement depending on the opposition along the way, but the problem arises when just as many regard a top four finish with tens of millions sitting unused in the bank as success. Over and over again.

120. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jan 07, 2014, 16:58 #43844

     As everybody is saying it certainly is sad to see theo pick up a bad career threatening injury, regardless of what some of us say and think about him at times. Hopefully he can come through it and the best of luck in doing so.I think the fact he was sitting up smiling making the spuds look like the idiots they are threw us and we didn't think it all that serious, that, and waiting to see what the old farts at the FA were going to do thankfully at least they showed a bit of common sense where theo is concerned anyway. If any good comes out of it at least theo will now see the inside of the transporter room at London Conley, and the biggest benefit of all will be not having to skulk through heathrow in disguise with the England team on the way home from the world cup after been humiliated again.

121. Green Hut

     Jan 07, 2014, 16:55 #43843

     Platini has already stated that FFP was not designed to make European football more competitive, merely to save some clubs from bankruptcy. He's also admitted that he wields little power over the mega-rich clubs, who (as they've threatened before) can simply take their ball away and start playing in their own competition if UEFA close too many loopholes. Waiting for FFP is just another excuse for doing nothing.

122. jeff wright

     Jan 07, 2014, 16:49 #43842

     Amos, Stan holds control on sufferance because Usmanov, for whatever reason ,is not interested at this point in time,or possibly even ever, in taking over . I don't agree with your views on the prudence and how well run run financially we are , and that everything will be coming up roses in the future views . The 3% rise in ticket prices shows that Stan still depends on gate receipts and also the TV money from the CL also a big part in Stan's financial plans. We are a long way from being a Leeds United case and have improved our sponsorship deals , along with other clubs, but still need to push on from just making up the numbers in the top 4 of the Prem - and in other tournaments as well by winning some silverware. This is more important to most supporters than reminders of how astute our main shareholder is regarding finances. Also these Asian glory-hunters that Ivan is trying to entice aboard our cause will be more inclined to do so if we are winning trophies .

123. Bard

     Jan 07, 2014, 16:42 #43841

     Amos:,I dont see it as defeatist more realistic. You're faith inthe FFP is touching. I don't for one minute believe it will make an iota of difference. Citeh spent £100m + wages and will do the same again next summer if they need to.

124. Amos

     Jan 07, 2014, 16:31 #43840

     @jeff wright. There aren't any warring parties among the Arsenal shareholders. Kroenke has won - Usmanov has lost. That war has long ended. As for PH-W he sold most of his family shares, not to Kroenke but to Dein who sold some to Fizsman and the rest to Usmanov. FFP has still to prove itself but the rules are still there to be addressed - holes or not. Ivan is right to say we don't have to bank everything on FFP though because the investments and prudent management is reaping its own rewards.

125. BADARSE

     Jan 07, 2014, 16:31 #43839

     Green Hut, I am sure you are right about so many feeling little frustration at missed opportunities over the last few years, then again it may be that they perhaps deal with them differently. Just a digression, but reaching cup finals and losing them for various reasons, can be construed a missed opportunity, then by stretching the point losing along the way in earlier rounds can be too. Some would look at a lost cup final differently to others, just to stress that point. @ SGRB the phrase 'manana mantra' was aimed at an invisible foe who would just play safe, and basically bury their heads in a promise of tomorrow's riches. It had no allusion to you whatsoever.

126. jeff wright

     Jan 07, 2014, 16:10 #43838

     There are more holes in the FFP malarkey than there is in a block of Swiss cheese. It's comforting though to know that Ivan says that we are not taking account of it in our future plans. There is a need obviously to make plans for the future but football in reality is always about now and the next game that you play . The shenanigans going on at AFC between the two major shareholders must be having an impact on events , anything could happen in the future,we have already had one sell out by the previous shareholders . Danny's legacy to us from his grave in Swissland is Stan Kroneke - a man who the now departed PHW - who sold his family shares to Stan - once famously said that we don't want his sort here. Some still agree with that. The alternative might not be any better though. Arsene is holding it all together like glue and both warring parties appear to be happy for now with this.

127. Amos

     Jan 07, 2014, 15:55 #43837

     @SGRB. I'm pretty sure there's plenty of historical precedence that should dent faith in external solutions too. We, and others, have had successes and failures with either choice - some would be more costly than others.

128. Stroud Green Road Boy

     Jan 07, 2014, 15:34 #43836

     @Badarse, I thought 'manana mantra' suggested I was talking in absolutes, though perhaps it was in reference to another poster or posters. Irritation and frustration? No more so than many others and hopefully reasonably expressed, for the most part. Green Hut has given a good answer here. @Amos, historical precedence indicates why some of us have little faith in 'internal solutions' and don't have complete trust in the decision makers at the club to do the 'right' thing now, though I recognise you have a different perspective on the achievements of recent seasons. @Bard, I don't know if it's the 'last time' rather the fact is the current position is strong and who knows when it will arise again. I say again, 'carpe diem', everyone. Hopefully it's a bit more inspiring than 'wait for FFP' anyway.

129. Tony Evans

     Jan 07, 2014, 15:29 #43835

     I might add - reinforcements now please, not at 23:59 on the 31st January!

130. Amos

     Jan 07, 2014, 15:18 #43834

     It seems a bit defeatist to see the present position as our one and only chance to usurp Chelsea, City & ManU. Nor does it seem logical to me given their excesses and our restraints over recent years. The facts are that we are getting financially stronger in relative terms (one of the reasons our transfer spending has been so high over the last 5 transfer windows) while new FFP rules (which will still take 2 or 3 more years for their effects to be felt in the squads of the overspenders) should constrain some of the excesses of others. We got where we are now with the resources have now. I don't see those resources diminishing any time soon.

131. CT Gooner

     Jan 07, 2014, 15:06 #43833

     Unfortunate for Theo, but we as a club must move on. The squad is now so thread bare, yet Wenger still won't play Podolski! I'll be a little more bullish than most, if Wenger fails to strengthen our squad, after such a woeful summer, and we fail to bring home some silver, his employment should be terminated forthwith. I don't care whether the "right" players are available, he's the one who wouldn't pull the trigger when they were. As much as I'm enjoying our resurgence this year, I understand how fragile our position is, and given the strength of Man City we cant afford to miss a step.

132. Bard

     Jan 07, 2014, 14:16 #43832

     Theo's injury really heaps the pressure on Wenger. He just doesn't have the numbers to cover the loss of Bendy and Theo. He has to bring in someone. Despite my calls to arms I also realise that the Arsenal transfer machine is not a thing of beauty. Their 3 month attempt to sign a striker bordered on the pathetic. It's a club that too often knows the price of things but not the value. But as Stroud Green points out and I agree, with the resources available to Citeh, Utd, and Chelsea it will be the last time we will be in the mix for many a long year.

133. Green Hut

     Jan 07, 2014, 14:08 #43831

     BADARSE- One of our biggest problems is that so many fans appear to feel such little frustration at the procession of missed opportunities over the past eight years. And even now some still prefer the safe option, terrified that occasionally speculating to accumulate will turn us into Leeds Utd.

134. John Abrehart

     Jan 07, 2014, 13:51 #43830

     We are down to what seems like a tired Giroud and a somewhat out of position Podolski up front at present. Like it or not, we HAVE to obtain a 'stopgap' striker at least. I think that Berbatov would fit the bill on an 18 month contract or something. He is a quality finisher and with our little maestro's buzzing around him creating a lot of chances, any lack of pace would be nullified. We will miss Theo as his threat usually means that the opposition put two defenders on him so the pace Gnabry or the Ox could partly compensate for his loss. Berbatov is not cup-tied in Europe and I feel that this intelligent footballer would make a real contribution and would fit our style. It would enable us to groom/buy a longer term player in our own time, if that is what is needed. Come on the boys!

135. BADARSE

     Jan 07, 2014, 13:35 #43829

     SGRB. I reread your post. Then I reread mine and for the life of me I do not see any conflict. I always sense a level of frustration below the surface with your posts. I may be wrong. However past experience gives me a tacit understanding of your position and views, many of which I share, as stated in the past. In your post I felt I detected an irritated dismissal of some who in your words, and I paraphrase, believe 'we have the luxury of keeping our powder dry for the future'. I just wanted to repeat my own hopes for a type of signing I wish for, and distancing myself from those you cannot understand. Yes the currency of a league title remains constant, no matter what anyone may claim. Just a point I sincerely hope that endless building continues, on and on into the future, for the children's children!

136. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jan 07, 2014, 13:31 #43828

     Yes it's a great time to be a gooner having done the spuds again, and in the cup makes it all the more sweet.It was a great performance all round and it's already been mentioned the moral boost it has given everybody players and fans alike can't be underestimated. It's good to see young players playing well and players like Gnarby producing good displays but we've won nothing yet, and if/when the silverware does start arriving i'll see that as bearing fruit.There's always room for improvement, and there always has been with this team for a long time. They were needed before and whether wenger likes it or not he's going to have to make them now, whether they will actually be improvements is anybody's guess.

137. Peter Wain

     Jan 07, 2014, 13:22 #43827

     Its all very well to say we should buy a striker but can anyone say who we could get. Suarez the obvious candidate is not a goer not the guy from AL Madrid. I do not think Hernandez is suitable and Berbatov would be not good. We need pace but who?

138. Amos

     Jan 07, 2014, 13:20 #43826

     'Whoever we can find that best suits our immediate needs' at least accepts the possibility that there isn't a currently available a better external solution to be found than an internal one. 'Only the club knows'. Probably, but very difficult for many to accept if what they 'know' is that which best suits our immediate needs can only for the time being be an internal solution.

139. Croker

     Jan 07, 2014, 13:11 #43825

     Who to buy then, fellow Gooners?

140. Stroud Green Road Boy

     Jan 07, 2014, 13:11 #43824

     Badarse, please reread my post: "whoever he can find that best suits our immediate needs ..."; "Only those inside the club know."

141. BADARSE

     Jan 07, 2014, 13:03 #43823

     Hi SGRB. It behoves me to respond by seizing the day. Anyone who just comes out with a manana mantra is invariably doing one of two things, using wonderful foresight, or booting the ball into touch, I would add an easily misunderstood third attitude of which I claim is mine. That being as I am uncertain of the club's policy I hope they do the right thing. The right thing takes the shape of a great and permanent addition that has been in their sights for a while, or a reasonable loanee. I don't want ballast of any sort. I do believe we have enough within the current squad, even with Theo's injury, to achieve as much as we would by just adding another body.

142. radfordkennedy

     Jan 07, 2014, 12:57 #43822

     Sir charlie....I think you'll find its bendtner who needs four boots not I....Stroud Green..I couldn't agree more mate seize the moment go for it now not in the summer do whatever it takes to get a goal scorer now,as ever mate you talk a lot of sense

143. Sir Charlie Nicholas

     Jan 07, 2014, 12:42 #43821

     Master RadfordKennedy, the time is now. Our Arsenal need us. Assend to the loft, pick up your boots, all four of them and descend upon Villa Park in full fury

144. Stroud Green Road Boy

     Jan 07, 2014, 12:37 #43819

     AFC are at a crucial moment. As some like to constantly remind us, there are 3 clubs with greater resources than us, so who knows when we'll be in this position again. With half the season gone we're in a great position It therefore behoves Wenger to do everything he can - be it a loan, a permanent signing, whoever he can find that best suits our immediate needs - to bring someone in to maximise our chances of still being top come May. Is he trying to do that, right now? Only those inside the club know. I cannot understand those think we have the luxury of 'keeping our powder dry' for the better opportunities that may exist in the summer transfer window. A league title has as much value, you know, in 2014 as it would in these future seasons of success that are always just around the corner and that we must endlessly build for and look to. And as I say, who knows when we'll be in this position again. Carpe diem!

145. Ron

     Jan 07, 2014, 12:26 #43818

     Bard - Yes, he s prone for sure isnt he. Ever since he joined us really. The Club shd try and supplement the sqaud, but i dont think they will. I feel that the Club has privately already settled for less than the title and tbh, i reckon we d need Ronaldo to propel us beyond Manchester City in all honesty. Without such quality im not of the view that Wenger, given his own uncertain future will commit to any great expenditure and dare i say it, but im not convinced i want him too. I feel that such bravery needs to be in the hands of Arsenes successor. AW s preferred type of lightweight fleet footed players are OK to a point but if the Club is to push the boat out for a real top notch forward, more of the same wont cut it for me. I dont expect to win the title though, as i think MC are a far superior team and short of an implosion there will ultimately claim the title. We can get runners up with what we ve got i think. Podolski needs to step up. Why cant he?

146. Radfordkennedy

     Jan 07, 2014, 12:05 #43817

     Sir Charlie Nicholas....I too sir have been up to the loft and have placed my pair of Adidas Franz Beckenbauer boots in dubbin and should the call to colours come through i wont be found wanting, i reckon i could make it from the halfway line to the penalty spot in what? 20 mins!!! thats not too far behind big Ollie!!

147. Gare K

     Jan 07, 2014, 11:13 #43816

     If we weren’t short of a striker (and a centre back I’d like to add) before the increasing amount of injuries, then we are now. I too can’t admit to being a massive Walcott fan, but he does have good qualities and I genuinely feel for the lad as he was running (no pun intended) into good form. My hope with Walcott is that this latest injury doesn’t take too much out of his game especially his pace (just ask Michael Owen). I said last week that it would be stupid to think that the autumn injuries would clear up to leave us with a fully fit squad come January and no doubt many of the regulars here dismissed my opinion. Well, without being all smug (I could but I’ll leave that to others as it’s not my style), I told you so. And I have no doubt that others would break down too possibly down to fatigue due to the limited squad numbers and it will be a repeat of previous season when the treatment room was jam packed. Remember 2007/08 and 2009/10 when the squad was fully stretched with injuries and the end of season outcome for both campaigns? I fear that Wenger would show naivety yet again this January by waiting for the walking wounded to return. He’s still waiting for Diaby and who’s to say he won’t break down again if his past history is anything to go by? God forbid we come up short again this season but if we do then it really is a case of Wenger not learning from past errors and he should be questioned by board members (not in a million years on that though!) and paying supporters. Fingers crossed the great momentum will not be derailed. Up The Arsenal!

148. Sir Charlie Nicholas

     Jan 07, 2014, 11:08 #43815

     I'm available and playing well at the momment coyg

149. Amos

     Jan 07, 2014, 11:02 #43814

     Football teams should always be building for the future. That's the only way you can have a team that's effective in the present. All teams should be in a permanent state of transition - that's the very nature of football teams - and of football players themselves. Managing that transition is difficult and those difficulties have been magnified for Arsenal in particular because of the changes we have undergone as a club in a period when the football landscape had changed dramatically in terms of financial power and player contract law. We have undergone transition as a club while also trying to manage the perpetual transition a football team must have. Whether an opportunity exists in this window or a better one exists in the next window to aid that transition cannot be certain but for sure any opportunities, if they really exist at all, will be restricted.

150. Bard

     Jan 07, 2014, 10:32 #43812

     Its sad news. Unfortunately Theo is injury prone and this more than any technical problems will probably prevent him becoming a top player. Slightly worried by the use of the word 'growing', this is the excuse used for failure in the now. We are always building for future that never arrives. This the gist of the debates here, let's keep our powder dry for next another tilt next season versus lets go for it now. Wengers caution is cited as him being canny but to me it's nothing of the sort. It's more lack of nerve. You are absolutely right if he doesn't buy in this window we will have wasted yet another opportunity to win something.

151. Ron

     Jan 07, 2014, 9:55 #43811

     Morning Chris/Badarse - Ive always thought that the coaches wd have been well served by encouraging Theo to play a slower game so to encourage his all round match play, to help his first touch and to develop his general 'game nous'that ive thought has always held him back i.e his deciion making has always been suss to me. His pace is a wonderful weapon Chris and your right to raise the point, but for me, he shd be encouraged to have it as his slave rather than his master. Its there when he needs it sort of thing. Nobody save for the ravages of time can steal it from him. Still, what do i know!! I always recall Bobby Charlton. He was a flyer as a winger in his younger day. As he matured he became an 'inside forward', a type of thrusting midfielder, more recognised today. His game became one of fierce shooting and more controlled all round play as a forward, but his burst of pace never deserted him until his early 30s. He used it sparingly as and when needed. As Badarse says, Theos pace will desert him anyway and being totally dependent on it every game, would be likely to go sooner rather than later. Lets hope the fella can get back anyway. Good luck TW. PS I still dont think Wenger will buy or loan Tony. We' ll see mate wont we.

152. radfordkennedy

     Jan 07, 2014, 9:52 #43810

     Shocking news for the boy and of course for us as Theo was the only one with any pace,will this force AWks hand I don't know he is loathed to buy if in his opinion its only like for like or a stop gap,personally I'd be on the phone now to Shane Long or Ricky Lambert,I know I will get slaughtered for suggesting those names but we really do need someone who can hit the ground running who knows where the net is we don't have the luxury of a bedding in period.I desperately don't want to see square pegs in round holes with the likes of ozil up front with rosicky behind him or whatever,I can't put my finger on it but something tells me all is not well twixt podolski and AW I honestly don't think he fancies him,but whoever we go for we gotta act now or our challange for glory will just grind to a halt whilst city with their magnificent squad could be over the hill and far away

153. Chris

     Jan 07, 2014, 9:42 #43809

     Unlike Ron and Badarse, I've always been a big Theo fan, reckoning that what he does is almost unique and virtually irreplaceable. Not for nothing have the likes of Barca stated in the past that he was the Arsenal player they all feared most. I had been mentally totting up the 'goals to come' from Theo during the rest of the season and reckoning that he would be vital in our title push. Whoever comes in is unlikely to score as many, imho, unless there is an opportunity for us to push the boat out and buy someone quite special this month. Pipe dreaming, perhaps, as I don't know who that would be but if ever we do need a boost, it would be now. (I'll still remain reasonably sanguine even of no one comes in but certainly the strength of the case in favour of a new top face has just increased. Even if we have to chuck an extra wadge at it)

154. BADARSE

     Jan 07, 2014, 8:58 #43808

     Ron we are in sync on this one buddy. On the previous article in response to Bard I have aired a view. This injury is a 'biggy', possibly the most serious a footballer encounters if he wants to play again. It insists on 3-4 months of near total inactivity, just muscle flexing as that period draws to a close. Then very tentative exercise. The muscles around the knee will have atrophied and these need building because they are the main support for the knee. Then constant decisions have to be made, 'can I push it a bit more? If not today, perhaps tomorrow?' It is on going and it will ask for a good 3 months of private training, which in itself is soul-destroying. Then the player hits the comeback trail, with all the circumstances that holds. He should recover his pace, though will be six months older. He actually needs to adapt his style anyway as we both recognise, his speed will evaporate overnight at some time in the future. Here's to that young man, hurry back Theo!

155. Tony Evans

     Jan 07, 2014, 8:14 #43806

     If we ultimately fail to win our first trophy since 2005 this season, it will be a big disappointment but something most of us can accept as part and parcel of football. What I and many others will find very hard to accept is failure caused by Wenger's unwillingness to buy in reinforcements in January, especially after the shocking news on Walcott. As you say, Gavin, a striker is an absolute must and central defensive cover wouldn't go amiss either. Of course we may still fail even with the addition of one or two more players but at least then we will all feel that Wenger did the best he could. Signing the right players in January is never easy but this time no excuses would be acceptable to me. There must be players out there that can come in and do a job, even if only on loan - so come on Arsene get cracking now.

156. Ron

     Jan 07, 2014, 8:02 #43805

     TWs injury could have some serious implications for his future career. Likely to affect his pace and as such would need to adapt as a player to cater for it, as Shearer and many others had to do. Ive never been Theo's biggest fan, but its always sad when such a short career gets cut even shorter. He may ironically even become a better player as a result of the need to adapt? COYG