Arsenal torn a new one

Online Ed: No sign of Champions elect at Anfield



Arsenal torn a new one


On paper, I always thought that Arsenal could afford to lose this match, on the basis that they would then have to win the home matches against the two Manchester teams and get a draw away at Chelsea. In terms of their chances for the title, I never considered defeat at Anfield terminal.

However, one thing that did strike me about the performance, or lack of it at Liverpool, was how much Arsenal struggled to create much in the way of goal threat, in spite of the home side letting them pretty much have the ball for most of the second half. Wenger’s team, this season, have bounced back from previous reverses and poor performances. Yet the conclusion that comes from the match against Liverpool is that, when the quality of the opposition is greater, Arsenal genuinely struggle. Granted, they did beat Brendan Rodgers’ men at home earlier in the season. And Champions League wins against Napoli and Dortmund suggested the team were capable of beating the best. But of late, creatively, the team have looked somewhat lethargic.

It was an appalling performance defensively, but this match was like a runaway train. Liverpool’s opener should have been given offside. There is no mitigation for the second goal. It was simply an argument against zonal marking. But at two down, Arsenal were always prone to the counter attack and, given their creative bankruptcy, it seemed a matter of damage limitation by the time the third goal went in.

At 4-0 after 13 minutes, the mind recalled different results of relevance to the task in hand. Liverpool 4 Arshavinal 4 in 2009. Newcastle 4 Arsenal 4 in 2011. Reading 5 Arsenal 7 in 2012 (the Gunners 4-0 down at half time). More relevant seemed Liverpool 4 Arsenal 1 in 2007 (remember Wenger’s red tracksuit outfit?) or the Robbie Fowler hat-trick 3-0 in 1994 (for the speed of the goals going in).

Liverpool eased off, but even so, could easily have scored more than the five they ended up with. It will put an end to talk of Arsenal being undefeated with a central pairing of Mertesacker and Koscielny playing the full 90 minutes. The duo played poorly and seemed to have no answer to Liverpool’s counter attacks.

No-one in an Arsenal shirt really performed that well. Szczesny did make some good saves to keep the score down, but I can’t credit a keeper too much when five have gone past him. Wilshere showed a bit of spite, and perhaps Flamini would have been a better option than Arteta if he had not managed to get himself suspended, because attitude seemed somewhat lacking around the rest of the side.

Mesut Ozil had another indistinguished game. He is a player that never seems to take a game by the scruff of the neck, but can make telling contributions. And on other days, might as well not be on the pitch. Today was one of those. Ok, there is a settlement period with a lot of imported players. We generally do not see the best of them until their second seasons. However, given Ozil’s reputation and price tag, I think people would have expected more.

Only one team looked like champions elect here and it wasn’t the visitors. A bad day at the office or a sign of things to come? The mood in football can change quickly. Two home wins in the next two games will have people thinking that there is still plenty to play for this season. But the question is where the Gunners’ inspiration has gone. The impression is that organized defences can take care of Arsenal’s attack without too much difficulty, and put the game beyond them by the time stamina might be a factor in the concluding moments of matches.

More than once during the game I pondered the wisdom of not upping the bid for Luis Suarez last summer once it became apparent that the release clause of £40 million in his contract did not exist. Would Arsenal be a better proposition with Suarez instead of Ozil? He would have cost more, but was a proven success in the Premier League.

Wenger’s team need to up their game, starting on Wednesday evening against Manchester United. Based on this performance, it would be unrealistic to think Bayern Munich can be knocked out in Europe, so I hope that the FA Cup is not sacrificed with a weakened selection next weekend. The manager needs to be realistic in terms of trophies his team has the best chance of winning and the Champions League should be third on the list right now, given so few top sides will be in the last eight of the FA Cup.

It would be easy to write off this team’s chances of success this season, but it is too early for that. The signs in today’s performance certainly don’t bode well, but their position is still good. With Manchester City dropping two points at Norwich, nothing can be assumed, although I backed Chelsea for the title at the start of the campaign for no other reason that Jose Mourinho’s stock in trade is getting the required result in any given game.

My view is that Arsenal have, for the most part, turned into a team of flat track bullies. It’s been enough to get them into the Champions League every season since they stopped actually winning trophies, and this campaign, they have proved very consistent in taking points they would be expected to. Hence they are still in the mix. However, in the big games, the real crunch ones against the sides that do win silverware, most times they don’t show up. Moments of real quality are not seen often enough when it really matters. They used to have the players to produce these, but the likes of Cazorla and Ozil are not Pires and Bergkamp, and Olivier Giroud is certainly not Thierry Henry. The equivalent of Patrick Vieira plays for Manchester City these days, although he did pull on an Arsenal shirt in a pre-season friendly in the days when Vieira was the Gunners captain.

I wanted to believe that this season would be different, and as a supporter, dared to hope. Arsenal still have a chance of the title and I would not write them off just yet. However, they need to take seven points from the games against Manchester United, Manchester City and Chelsea, at the same time as continuing with the consistency they have shown against sides they are expected to beat. Trips to White Hart Lane and Goodison Park might need to produce away wins as well. Arsenal certainly can’t afford to drop many points, because I don’t think Chelsea will. City’s draw at Norwich gives some hope, and Liverpool cannot be completely discounted given they are still to entertain both City and Chelsea at home.

I fully understand people wanting to write this season’s team off after such a heavy and humiliating defeat and the truth is I suspect it won’t be long before I join them. However, they have time to recover, so final judgment is delayed here, at least until Wednesday’s game is done and dusted. Now that is a genuine must win affair…

The current issue of The Gooner will remain on sale for Wednesday’s home match v Man Utd and can also be bought online here. Issue 241 goes on sale at the Liverpool FA Cup game.

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  1. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 12, 2014, 18:53 #45691

    lon, hindsight's a wonderful thing pity you hadn't the wisdom to come on and predict the 1-1 before the match. Care to give us one of your own gems of wisdom on the score tonight? before the game mind.

  2. lon

    Feb 12, 2014, 12:32 #45687

    ‘Arsenal certainly can’t afford to drop many points, because I don’t think Chelsea will.’ W Brom 1/Chelsea 1… well what do you know. Any more gems of wisdom!

  3. Peter Hughes

    Feb 11, 2014, 22:48 #45672

    Still not watched the game. Listening on the radio was enough. Will be there Wednesday though. Felt strangely calm after Liverpool game. A win puts us back in the game. 13 games to go & still only a point off top. No panic yet but the manner of a 5-1 thrashing is a little alarming. Full of contradictions but we can still do it,or maybe not.

  4. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 11, 2014, 16:38 #45662

    I also studied as a Psychologist at Yale as a young man, and I am coming out with completely different vibes on Ron. I have him down as being very tall, possibly afro Caribbean more into soap operas and lounge music, more of a cat lover than dogs with a striking resemblance to Harry Belafonte.

  5. Ron

    Feb 11, 2014, 15:53 #45659

    70% for me Westie. Brilliant. The best Season ticket invented. Count me in. Ill wear my Doc Martens, vest and braces and bleached 'Lee'jeans (externally turned up of course)?. The only difference now is that my head is 'naturally' shaven rather than deliberatly. Scarves on wrists only fella's.None of this round your neck boll---s!

  6. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 11, 2014, 14:20 #45656

    Westflower : I think I qualify for at least a 70% discount. We could get our enclosure sponsored by "Winners" I still remember the mantra "Winners and Arsenal the perfect match" and I think they should give us a standing area as well - you know, to keep the blood circulating through our legs!

  7. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 11, 2014, 14:14 #45655

    Ronnie, there already is one of those inclosures where the cameras very rarely focus on, it's called the directors box (although some would say it's the home dugout/seating. And there's quite a few pictures of Frank Mc'Clintock and indeed other legends adorning various parts of the Emirates already but i didn't expect you to know that.

  8. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 11, 2014, 13:55 #45652

    I see Paddy has got up and left his ilk at AKB central command and ventured out(it's only taken three days)to tell the big bad boys who don't think like himself and have different views, but more importantly I'd wager make his messiah look bad and that would never do even after another humiliation what he thinks of them, and the only thing he has accomplished is to tell us he studied psychology even though he can't spell.

  9. Paddy got up

    Feb 11, 2014, 13:25 #45650

    Ron: Come come,Your answer tells me that I am at least 85% correct.

  10. Westlower

    Feb 11, 2014, 12:59 #45647

    @Seven Kings Gooner, We're onto something here. An enclosure for non virginal supporters who have shouted home previous AFC Champions. For sure the songs would be more witty, more vociferous, more supportive than the couple of mundane ones that are now sung. "Stand up if you hate Tottenham" isn't a song, it's a way of life! 10% ticket discount if you cheered home any AFC Championship side, another 10% for witnessing an FA Cup triumph, extra 10% if who've seen Frank McLintock, Alan Ball & Liam Brady play, another 10% if you saw Joe Baker knockout Ron Yeats, 10% if you saw Alan Smith score in Copenhagen, 10% if you were at Highbury the night of Radford, Kelly & Sammels, 10% if you watched Geordie Armstrong cross the ball for Ray Kennedy at the Lane, 10% if you were at Anfield for Mickey Thomas, 10% if you saw any of Charlie George, David Rocastle & Ian Wright score for AFC, 10& if you were at OT for Overmars & Wiltord. That should do as I can now get in with a 80% discount! Ooh to be, Ooh to be, Ooh to be an old fart. Pour me a glass of red please Ron!

  11. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 11, 2014, 11:56 #45644

    Ronnie - The old Farts Enclosure - I'm game if you are, providing of course I can have all the like minded lads with me, sounds like heaven. Blankets for our legs, Constable Alex Morgan singing and the Metropolitan band marching round with the leader "tossing his mace" (if you pardon the expression) A rousing rendition of "Good old Arsenal" led by Frank McLintock, a "snifter" at half time and eleven real men in Arsenal shirts playing on the pitch - absolute f*cking bliss!!!

  12. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 11, 2014, 11:44 #45643

    Paddy - We never had many psychologists standing with us in the old North Bank - we had quite a few headcases though, you would have been in your element! However your admission does explain it all to me now.

  13. Silly Billy

    Feb 11, 2014, 11:42 #45642

    i like polo bears i have never seen a bottled bear...

  14. Ron

    Feb 11, 2014, 11:40 #45640

    Paddy - Its back to College for you then matey. You got 1 right though granted! Ha. Enjoy your day buddy.

  15. Paddy got up

    Feb 11, 2014, 11:25 #45639

    sorry 'bottled beer'

  16. Paddy got up

    Feb 11, 2014, 11:14 #45638

    Ron, I studied psychology at Royal Holloway, judging from just your last few posts I would say you were around 60, short a little plump,a lover of the arts and popular music, also have a taste for red wine or bottled bear and own a small pooch.

  17. Ron

    Feb 11, 2014, 10:32 #45635

    Paddy got up - Leading to 'insanity' eh fella. Seems that you went through the stage we re at years ago then did you and have reached the insane stage now? Thanks for the tip off. Ill bear it mind. 'My field of work'you say. Who are you kidding. Im guessing you pick up litter for the Council?

  18. jeff wright

    Feb 11, 2014, 10:16 #45634

    Go and have a lie down Paddy. All of this thinking that you are indulging in is obviously stressing you out.This is just a forum for people to express their views,or frustrations on. We all support the team at games or when in the pub among rival or lower case supporters ones . You and others are not the guardians of the sacred flame that you delude yourselves into believing that you are. Managers come and go I have seen a few at AFC ,as have others on here,no manager has the right to be bullet proof ,not even Wenger ,especially after 9 trophy-less years and with the indignities of the usual disappointments and drubbings that we get every season, anyone who says that he is not bothered about these embarrassing beatings must be a very strange supporter or is lying . The big difference between the 71 side getting a 5 goal thumping at Stoke and the current ones is that the 71 boys went on to do the double . When this lot win something come and tell us about it . I think after building up your hopes that old Arsene was about to win something at last you have now realized that it's not going to happen and are getting in a few digs at us sceptics before the brown stuff hits the fan. I thought we would beat Liverpool and posted this view on here ,it's not my fault that Wenger couldn't motivate them to put up a fight or that they played like a Sunday pub team. I suggest that you stop trying to project your frustrations on to others and have a hard look at elsewhere at where the real problems are to be found.

  19. Ronnie

    Feb 11, 2014, 9:51 #45633

    They should introduce an old farts enclosure at the Emirates where all those aged disgruntles can meet. Obviously they would have to introduce a new cat D pricing system and they would also need to create more space for their 'BUSTED FLUSH'and'SPEND'banners and off course the bar would have to be adorned with pictures of Frank Mclintock. Also best to keep the section out of camera view if Arsenal have lost their previous game as the empty seats won't look good on TV.

  20. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 11, 2014, 9:27 #45630

    Paddy Got Up - take it easy mate we are not talking about the meaning of life, we are talking about football - I disagree with you get over it! You do not have the monopoly on your love of Arsenal - I just think the next few months are going to hurt us both, like it has done for the last 8 seasons!

  21. Paddy got up

    Feb 11, 2014, 9:16 #45629

    They seek a perfectionism in Arsenal football club that doesn't exist. In their eyes Arsenal will never come up to their unreachable standards. We are always two players short or the manager is clueless. Perfectionism is nothing new and has been around for centuries mainly found in religion, sports and the arts. The individual seeks to make either himself or the object of his desire, in this case Arsenal football Club perfect. Off course nothing can ever reach perfection so the individual just becomes frustrated and takes his angst out on the object by putting it down and forever showing his disapproval of it. I've seen many a case of this in my own field of work and have noticed that eventually it turns to insanity.

  22. Silly Billy

    Feb 11, 2014, 9:08 #45628

    on 7 million a year and he can't afford to buy a key board...

  23. Come off it guys??

    Feb 10, 2014, 23:25 #45623

    I am no Wenger apologist, but it is always the same ones on here having a right old gripe about Wenger. You guys seriously sit there and type "Busted flush" "joke of a manager"... what does that make the other 16 managers in the league outside top 40? It does seem like just an excuse to project your own hangups onto Wenger. Some busted flush on £7.5m a year, if only he had a keyboard.

  24. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2014, 23:17 #45622

    Paddy you are obviously very angry at those who don't share your own views . There is a contradiction in terms among your rantings that makes them all look rather as though you have picked up a dictionary and just typed out a string of words without knowing what they actually mean. Why don't you come back at the end of May and tell us all how stupid we are - and how clever you have been to see how things would transpire. I won't be holding my breath though on you appearing to eat some humble pie if ,as most likely,you are proven wrong. Hey Paddy I will wager you do this every season to those who offer constructive criticism that conflicts with your own puerile biased faith in Wenger ,right? I was disappointed with our performance against Liverpool,but not really that surprised,because we see these sort of results every season now days under Wenger. Cheers.

  25. Man United Killer

    Feb 10, 2014, 22:55 #45621

    Against the top teams the best we are able to muster is a draw yet,we are unable to come away with anything in the away fixtures.What does that say about the quality of our squad?

  26. Colonel chunder

    Feb 10, 2014, 22:53 #45620

    As much as I want him to prove me wrong I standby what I said 3/4 years ago that we won't win anything else with Wenger at the helm..yes we are currently 2nd but in reality the best we can hope for is 3rd or 4th..still can't believe we didn't sign another speedster to replace Theo - still Wenger is getting paid 8 million a yr to make these decisions - which is why the cabinet will probably be empty come May

  27. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2014, 22:45 #45619

    Sonic, boom boom, Just one striker ,and not even a top one, says that our squad is too small. Had Wenger signed a top striker last summer, or in the last window, then we might still be top of the league and not trailing Chelsea who at one time were behind us. We obviously needed better than Giroud v Saints and the scousers. Also, our players needed another psychological boost in the last window with a top player being brought in .Some players were begging Wenger to sign one just as Mertesacker says they did with Suarez last summer. How right they were ! The late show signing of Ozil after the disastrous start at home to Villa papered over that faux - pas but that trick has not worked with bad back squaddie Kallstrom ( yawn). Optimistic blind faith doesn't make you macho man Sonic , it just makes you look over over-optimistic. As for growing balls your ones appear to be where your brains should be. Boom-boom!

  28. Paddy Got Up

    Feb 10, 2014, 22:37 #45618

    The trouble with the likes of BARD, Ron, Maguirebridge, Jeff Wright and their ilk, is that they've spent their entire Arsenal supporting lives playing the victims. Resulting in them having withdrawn into their hyper pseudo pious 'I'm always the one getting shafted' defense mode and it's never my fault but somebody else's which manifests after every Arsenal result that doesn't take their fancy. Causing them to sink into a pit of self pity,comforting one another in their own nauseating false humility.

  29. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 10, 2014, 20:34 #45617

    Sonic - Trust me, I will tell you when I think we have a team good enough to win the league. As for "ballsing up" - sorry mate I am just too old to fall for the kind of bullsh*t you youngsters swallow.

  30. sonic

    Feb 10, 2014, 19:54 #45616

    seven kings. What sort of defeatist talk is that 'our squads too small' I don't see any difference in the strength of any of the top 3 squads, in fact Man City who have just lost their best player can't find a goal for toffee, so don't use that excuse. The team with the most belief and better supporters normally does the best. Look at the Spanish league at the moment the big two not having it all their way. Negative jellies like yourself Ron, jeff wright and others need to balls up get behind the team and stop using the excuse that our squad isn't big enough which many jellies were saying before the 04 season believe it or not.

  31. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 10, 2014, 19:33 #45615

    Sonic - I would love us to win the league but we can't, because OUR SQUAD IS TOO SMALL! that is not up for debate, so because of that we will not win the league! WTF has you suggesting I spend time with Spud supporters got to do with Wenger not having a plan when we play tasty teams. It's not my fault one of the richest clubs in the world does not have a strike force! If you cannot watch a game and judge what is right and wrong with your team that also is not my fault.

  32. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2014, 19:23 #45614

    Surely they are just saying that we have more chance of winning the FAC ? This is being realistic dreaming of winning the Prem or Champions league is just being optimistic. Optimism and Wenger just don't work for many any more . When both of those two major trophies have vanished again, and we are out of the FAC, then it will be 3rd or 4th place is a trophy time and ain't it exciting... the international play-boy looks disinterested now ...just wait and see how he looks when there are no trophies left to play for and the world cup is looming out of the mist towards him. He skipped the Xmas games due to injury and it wouldn't be the biggest surprise if he has a relapse over Easter .

  33. sonic

    Feb 10, 2014, 18:56 #45613

    I can't agree with Ron and seven Kings Gooner on where our priorities lye. Arsenal have always been the elite team of English Football and winning the title has always been our first objective. You two have been hanging out with too many lilywhite's if you think the be all and end all is winning the FA Cup. Wenger may have his faults but at least he recognises this.

  34. jjetplane

    Feb 10, 2014, 18:45 #45612

    Stop impersonating a pop-up Westie & Ron - non-league is the biz and of course the chips are better and would be a laugh to see how the Mancs would do in the Combination. Now this Emirates gaff - WTFs that all about! Alsace Gotta agree on Ozil. Love watching the bloke do anything but worried he's drifting into 'top-draw comatoza' .... As for Wenger. If you like economics, he's your man/boy.

  35. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 10, 2014, 18:36 #45611

    I agree with Ron - I would do because he like me has seen the compliment of players needed to win titles. Our squad is too small and that is a fact, no amount of pro Wenger dialogue is going to change that. We cannot beat the top teams home or away and therefore we will not win the Champions league. However if we field a strong side against Liverpool this weekend and get some luck on the way we could win the FA cup - and I would be delighted! I wanted Arsene to build on our good start to the season in January, he chose not to and because of that, we will, as per usual be matching the Spuds and Liverpool results for 4th spot. Our chances of winning the league needed a few new players in key positions and a proper coaching plan against the top teams - we have neither and the consequences will be played out in the coming months.

  36. Westlower

    Feb 10, 2014, 18:18 #45610

    With neither team daring to lose, Wednesday's game v Mancs has all the ingredients for a draw, currently priced at 5/2.

  37. Ron

    Feb 10, 2014, 18:17 #45609

    Ronnie - We may well be but 'expecting to win every game'is typical top 4 club fans thinking and is maybe why so many supporters of smaller Clubs detest these clubs. Trouble with your type is that you can't take a defeat.You think you've a divine right to win even when faced with and have a spanking from a better team.The Utd fans have been like it for decades. Post prem formation has seen Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal fans follow suit and City s have gone the same way of late. By your logic, if we ALL expected the same ludicrous outcome as you do, the same team that many of us saw lack the balls to do the business at Anfield would all of a sudden become a great team to match your florid vision of them. As it happens i do watch some non league and can safely say that doing so over the last 11 years has given me as much pleasure as PL football does.The other fans who are far brighter than you be assured, as your barmy comments on here evidence. Still as long as youre happy denying whats before your very eyes at Arsenal, living in cloud cuckoo land its OK by me. Discussion over.

  38. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Feb 10, 2014, 18:02 #45607

    I don't understand the let's get at Ozil thing. It's his first season in the PL. He expected to be sunning himself in Valencia or Sevila and instead he's in a permanently mucky gaff. He is good enough and he will come good, that is if OGL doesn't decide he is secretly a goalkeeper.

  39. Generation Gap

    Feb 10, 2014, 17:59 #45606

    Ron and Bard sound like a couple of old school Gooners who probably have great memories of FA cup matches with their rattles and rosettes and don't really understand the complications of the champions league or the importance of winning the league.

  40. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2014, 17:43 #45605

    I think we could win the FAC up Arsene is up for it...que Sera Sera .. WHAT EVER WILL BE WILL BE ... WE ARE GOING TO WEMERLEEEE QUE SERA SERA !!! I suspect it will be a case of whatever will be will be from Arsene - with his myopic eyes fixated on Pep und ist brummer.

  41. Ronnie

    Feb 10, 2014, 17:33 #45604

    If Ron and Bard think we are only capable of winning the FA cup then why moan about losing a league game and why even bother to play Bayern. All this negative small club thinking does nobody any good. I expect us to win every game we play whether at home to Coventry or away to Bayern. Small timers like Ron and Bard would be better off following Barnet.

  42. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 10, 2014, 17:30 #45603

    lily-livered, i doubt very much if TA was sitting on the bench on Saturday or any other game where we've f****d up that he'd have had any kind of reaction, simply because he wouldn't have been allowed one, because it would have reflected badly on OGL and if he would have forgotten himself and had one like going to the touch line barking instructions to try and put things right you can be sure it wouldn't happen again.

  43. Bard

    Feb 10, 2014, 17:22 #45602

    Nice one Westie. Sing and hope, that about sums our chances up.

  44. Westlower

    Feb 10, 2014, 16:59 #45601

    Let's dedicate a song to all of those who don't believe we'll win diddly squat this season. All together now, " Done my b****cks down the track, cars keys are missing on the rack, my dog got run over by a truck, the cat p*ssed in my beer oh f**k, my wife & kids walked out on me, but she'll always be my sister Shirley". Everbody join in the chorus, "Arsene Wengers magic, he wears a magic hat..........."

  45. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 10, 2014, 16:21 #45600

    Ron, no worries most of us realised it wasn't you, but we were worried that you might have chucked yourself in the Mersey but there again we're used to these humiliations by now. Good post.

  46. Bard

    Feb 10, 2014, 15:59 #45598

    Ronnie: I don't quite get what you're saying. It's seems to me that all those believing that we can actually win something are nicely 'deluded'. If you've watched most of the games over at least the last 8 years the patterns stand out in neon lights. We are prone to capitulate, we never have a strong enough squad, our collective attitude is weak, and we haven't had a world class striker since TH. yes we had RVP, but he was hot for about 1 season. Ozil on his own was never going to transform the team. So I really don't get all the euphoria about potential titles. I really don't care about the 3rd/4th stuff. If we don't win anything the seasons a failure in my book. The problem at the club is that there is a culture of mediocrity fostered by Wenger and the board to which a lot of fans on here buy into.

  47. Ron

    Feb 10, 2014, 15:55 #45597

    Ronnie - You are best just to speak for yourself. I dont predict anything until we re half way through a season and its 3rd spot now as i see it. You can predict in August what you want if you want too. I cdt really care less. If what you mean is becauise we signed Ozil I shd have said we d win the title and the CL, then im sorry but i wdt have, because i didnt think it then and i dont think it now. I d love to be proved wrong though and then id happily admit to not having had sufficient faith.The trouble is with your post is that its like a lot of others in that you think its a slight on your manhood or something irrational to say that AFC really dont cut the mustard and in truth arent as good as other teams. A good many of us have supported poor to average teams at Arsenal many times before, but it doesnt mean we dont support the Club or enjoy the odd game here and there. I was singing with the rest last Saturday, though i still thought the team was and is a poor to average one with a busted flush as a Coach. Your last post is psychobabble basically.Im not moaning either. Im just offering up a view on a football Club and its team. In truth is really doennt matter much to me whether were great good or indifferent. I still follow the Club and would like them to succeed in the top tournies. At the moment and for some years theyve not had the ability to do so.They might one day, but as for predicting great success for the sake of it like you advocate, you can do that if you want too. Ill do it if ever i see a team on the pitch and a coach on the bench who gives me an inkling that they can follow through.

  48. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2014, 15:49 #45596

    It's an old ploy of the AKB to claim that Wenger has been over-achieving by getting 4th or 3rd place in the league. In reality this is what Stan expects at the very least for the £7.5m that he pays Arsene. Mourinho is at as well claiming that he is the out-sider in a 3 horse race ,when in reality is now fav to win it . His results against the other two sides make him so. 6 points off City and 1 so far from us - and we still have to go to the bridge. All Maureen now has to do is to match our results to finish in front of us.City need to beat us and hope we win at the bridge - a lot of ifs and buts involved and the smart money is going on Chelsea with Pelligrini's horse not looking like a genuine stayer and Wenger riding a horse that struggles to jump the bigger obstacles another 3rd or 4th place looks more likely than first on previous C/D with poor results on heavy going also a neg factor . An unlikely second will be hailed by some as being a victory, but it will just in reality another pyrrhic Wenger one.

  49. Ronnie

    Feb 10, 2014, 15:04 #45595

    RON,Your attitude is the same as a lot of Gooners unfortunately. Most Arsenal supporters at the start of each season predicts that Arsenal are going to finish 4th 5th and win nothing. They think it makes them sound humble, even though deep down they expect far more, and maybe Wenger will add extra players but it's the wrong outlook. After the signing of Ozil we should all have been saying this Arsenal team are now good enough to compete for all major trophies and that we were going to be crowned League Champions or else. Instead only a few fans have any belief while the rest say we're going to finish 4th or 5th,then when we finish second at the end of the season these same fans who predicted we'd finish 5th moan because we only finished second. The board and Wenger then point out that we finished above expectations so why are you moaning, it's as simple as that.

  50. jjetplane

    Feb 10, 2014, 15:02 #45594

    Welcome home the real Ron and good posts from Tony Evans as always. Wednesday will be some circus with two global misfits battling it out for Asian merchanise supremacy. As things stand we could have done a lot worse than having Pulis in for the rest of the season. You have to give it to Maureen for shipping out Mata (Ozil) and turning Hazard into POY as things stand. Ramsay out for another month and I go with the line that Ozil/Carzola need more class than Giroud in front of them. He's OK but too content with his game to ever be a great and that is what is needed in front of our playmakers. I will be amazed if we win anything this season but here's hoping the wheels come right off at Citeh because I think Maureen is warming to this lark again. Ron - good on yer West Ham ha ha! You are bang on about Liverpool. Younger manager getting the club fired up. Hope the yankee saw we we all have known for years .....

  51. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2014, 14:46 #45593

    Ozil has done okay with his passing and assists, not very good however on his crossing or goal scoring . Defensively he provides nothing. Anyone who claims that they did not expect more from a player who was supposed to take us to another level has forgotten what they posted during the euphoria surrounding his signing. Or they are lying. I still remain convinced that Real Madrid would not have sold him if he were really as good as he is supposed to be and that at £42m they got the best of the deal. Another chance beckons for ‘Marty’ on Wednesday night v stuttering United who again tossed away the points at home in a game they should have won in a canter. The game against us will be a different kind of one though with United not having to go all out to try and win it. That onus will be on us , and every man and his dog knows how Wenger will set out his stall, because he never sets it out any other way. So no surprises then for United to worry about tactical they will defend deep and try to hit on the break as Place did recently but Chammy and Jerome fluffed their lines when they could have made headlines instead as Bent did against United . Ozil needs to step up to the plate and grab the game by the scuff of the neck, obviously all the others, apart from Wolfy , need to raise their game as well. If Ozil flops in this game then the only next level he will have taken us to is a £42 million one cash signing. I go with the view that whatever the outcome of our tete a tete with Moyes, the bug-eyed Jock and Marty eye-balling one another would be fun, is that Wenger must put out his best side available against Liverpool and beat them because the FAC could be a season saver . We don't need another defeat to Liverpool and the following on pathetic excuses from the deluded AKB's that will follow it. Not that they will have long before Pep and his big egoists are in town . Wenger's probably in reality already salivating over this prospect anyway .

  52. Ron

    Feb 10, 2014, 14:22 #45592

    Ronnie - My expectations would happily be far higher fella and ive no interest in West Ham or the Spuds thanks. What i said was that the FAC is realistic and the only trophy we can really have a chance to win. Ive also consistently said we ll end up 3rd. Perhaps reading is your weak point?

  53. Bard

    Feb 10, 2014, 14:20 #45591

    Tony Evans: you're right he did all those years ago but he seems to have lost it in the 8/9 years. My view is that it's a combination of many things but the most glaringly obvious is that the game's moved on and he hasn't. Ferguson regularly changed his no 2 and revamped his staff. Wenger would stillhave Pat Rice putting out the cones if he hadn't retired. I think he's lost his nerve and all teams come to represent the manger,the current Arsenal flatter to deceive, they are capable of wonderful football but when it's get tough they capitulate. And on my humble opinion this season will be no different.

  54. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Feb 10, 2014, 14:17 #45590

    All that would have been necessary at Anfield would have been to stick 11 men behind the ball and tough it out until an opportunity presented itself. We have the players to do that and it should have been drilled into them, "Just don't get beaten". Flamini should be shot for leaving the team bereft of an organising influence on the pitch for 4 games, but Wenger should be shot much much earlier for putting us in a position whereby we need Flamini on the pitch to give us a hope in hades of collective mental strength. Everybody is now expecting a triple implosion as the manager tries his best to give us May 1940 all over again. This is the part of the season where we see that the present manager makes it impossible for us to win anything. He just isn't up to it.

  55. Tony Evans

    Feb 10, 2014, 14:07 #45589

    I hope we can bounce back v United but even if we do Wenger has left the squad so short on numbers that it will probably only delay the inevitable falling by the wayside anyway. Quality, squad depth and crucially more leaders are desperately required - players that roll their sleeves up and get stuck in. This has been the case for so long now and I doubt it will ever happen under Wenger. What always mystifies me about Wenger is that he had the winning formula all those years ago, albeit some of it came gift wrapped for him from GG and yet he appears to have forgotten it completely.

  56. Ronnie

    Feb 10, 2014, 13:58 #45588

    Ron, If all you expect us to do is challenge for the FA Cup you would probably be better off following the likes of West Ham, Spurs or Fulham. I hope we make a good fist in all three major trophies this year. Those who predict Arsenal will finish 5th and win nothing at the start of the season are putting expectations low and making it easy for the manager.

  57. Unchives

    Feb 10, 2014, 13:54 #45587

    Unfortunately this set of players switch-off and need a reality check on a regular basis to keep them motivated and alive. This is the managers responsibility. However the key games are Man Utd and Citeh at home. If we cant beat the current Man Utd team at home then forget the Title. As we all know the title is hard to win at any time, and it will be infinitely harder next season....lets take our chance now, i think we will.

  58. lily-livered weak streak

    Feb 10, 2014, 13:45 #45586

    I am shocked by still how many Arsenal fans, on this site, tolerate weakness from our club. for all you new fans this was never the Arsenal DNA. The club was always tough and always gave the top teams a hard time when they came to highbury. Never rolled over and died. Wenger's teams post David Dein have rolled over more than any other top club including Spurs. Id also like to see Tony Adams sitting on the bench and see his reaction after the first 5 mins on saturday

  59. Spaced

    Feb 10, 2014, 13:45 #45585

    Usual overreaction here. The size of the defeat is not really that important, as long as we recover mentally for Wednesday. How we react on Wednesday is the crucial factor. We have bounced back from heavy defeats earlier in the season, so I am hopeful that we will do this time. These big defeats never really bother me too much as they always happen, we got beaten badly in all our championship winning seasons (and by lesser clubs), it happens. But bouncing back is all important. Man City dropping points at Norwich is very good for us and very damaging for them, they dropped 2 important points here. It is a lesson that there is still a long way to go in this season, and I hope the players heed it and recover mentally. If we win on Wednesday, all will be forgotten. Here's hoping for a big bounce back!

  60. Westlower

    Feb 10, 2014, 13:44 #45584

    @Ron, Glad you enjoyed yourself on Merseyside despite our dreadful showing. You'll never convince me that Bertie Mee was an inspiration to the 70/71 team, it was all about Frank McLintock organising the team on the pitch. Put Frank into's today's team and you'd notice the difference. Would Mee manage this team any better, I think not. Arteta is not in the same parish as Frank or Tony Adams when it comes to demanding the best of those about him. Always remember Frank grabbing the mouthy Alan Ball by his shirt and lifting him off the ground telling him "I'm the captain you wee diddy". I remember writing to Wenger when he made Vieira captain. I doubted Patrick had all the right qualities to be captain of AFC. McLintock & Adams were hard acts to follow. These days the captaincy is awarded to keep players sweet, aka, Cesc & RVP.

  61. Moscow Gooner

    Feb 10, 2014, 13:42 #45583

    Ronnie - that average finish of 2.6 includes the early Wenger period when the team and the manager showed real hunger. It has no real relevance to today - or to the future. Anyway 2.6 rounds to 3rd, rather than 4th - still off the trophies. And you're talking about mini leagues in 2008 and 2010 - what real relevance does that have to 2013/14 or to 2014/15 etc.? PS I see the early kick off is now being blamed for the performance: easy solution to that: give up the television money (Mr Dein started this particular bandwagon rolling) and we can kick off every game at 3 pm on a Saturday afternoon again...

  62. Ron

    Feb 10, 2014, 13:38 #45582

    Realist - and if you think that this team can win 3 trophies, i would suggest that you change your handle to 'fantasist' fella. Your attitude sustains the defeatist, surrender mentality on the pitch that the Club has and continues to tolerate over the last 3 years. I pays my money and will say it as i see it, like everybody else.

  63. Realist

    Feb 10, 2014, 13:15 #45581

    Ron, The last time I looked we were still in the hunt for three trophies. Your attitude epitomizes the let's all give up and start moaning after every defeat disease that has taken over this club in the last few years.

  64. radfordkennedy

    Feb 10, 2014, 13:06 #45580

    Derby gooner..absolutely in a nutshell mate spot on we all new and we spoke about it a few posts back the need to keep it tight defend at all costs DO NOT concede and try and nick one the best we can but this doesn't seem to figure in the team talks...rember that semi well the only difference being the spine of the team then was Wilson,Mclintock,Storey Radford,now there's a team who could fight...Westlower..yes mate the players are equally to blame but not soley,assuming that a game plan existed and that a talk of sorts to place then he has to be held accountable for the debacle that took place or will that be bouldys fault.

  65. Bard

    Feb 10, 2014, 12:56 #45579

    Ronnie: point taken. Yes Maureen not so hot against WH but sensational against Citeh. When was the last time Wenger surprised us with a tactical variation either before or during a game. Maybe he's a tactical genius and I just can't see it.

  66. DJ

    Feb 10, 2014, 12:53 #45578

    To only loan an injured midfielder on transfer deadline day when 90% of us fans knew we were desperatly crying out for reinforcements esp up front smacks of gross mis management at its worst. No morale boosting signing and I'm afaid Wenger must carry the can. If we lose our next three games and are fighting Spurs, Everton and manchester United for fourth place I trust that offer of a three year contract will be hastily withdrawn

  67. Ron

    Feb 10, 2014, 12:49 #45577

    Guys. Good afternoon. please ignore my troll namesake (above). Kev. What a bad day on Saturday, though we still had a good time!! Over ran though by a hungry team who showed no mercy or respect for us and they showed what Arsenal are. A team of featherweights. Westie - You do so badly need to wake up. That was another bottle job for his back catalogue that Wenger's presided over for years. Theyre his players and hes the coach and they were inept and beaten from the kick off, as quite a few of us who were there expected, though not quite the size of the hammering. Liverpool coasted 2nd half and only our keeper stopped it being an 8 goal mauling.Wenger needs to go and go soon and take his backroom staff with him and only then can we address the neglect on the field. The Club needs its pride back, its fight and its soul that from the top down, has been allowed to meander away for years. Kev - its not 'giving up' thats occured. There are many of us who never thought there was a title chance in the 1st place. There s atill the FAC, which was the Clubs only chance of a trophy, though Liverpool will rightly fancy taking us in that now, though hopefully it might be a little closer! Credit Liverpool and we shd thank them for taking the foot off the peddle, as that might have been double figures. Played really well and look like a Club going places with a few additions to their squad.

  68. Mark

    Feb 10, 2014, 12:36 #45576

    same old Arsenal ,but we knew that before the season started (it has been fun) but watch how we drop out of everything over the next couple of weeks. Ozil was a waste of money and Giroud never good enough. Without proper width we lack ideas, all the good Arsenal sides had a winger(s) , no new players in the window (no he doesnt count),so the battle for 4th is on !!!!!!!

  69. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 10, 2014, 12:30 #45575

    Bard, good point maybe that explains why they were running around like headless chickens on Saturday while under the cosh, having realised that their one and only plan A had got them into this, it certainly wasn't going to get them out of it.

  70. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 10, 2014, 12:03 #45574

    Roy, yes they were, and have been, and it's great to see, but they weren't stuffed by five all the same, and if OGL does manage to get the better of Moyes on Wednesday will that suddenly make everything all right.

  71. Ronnie

    Feb 10, 2014, 11:29 #45573

    BARD, Where was Maureen's plan B when West Ham parked the bus and got outthought by Walrus face. Where was Martinez's astuteness when he took Wigan to the Championship last season or Rogers taking the victims to seventh.

  72. Westlower

    Feb 10, 2014, 11:08 #45572

    It's too easy to keep blaming Wenger for all the problems on planet earth but the players should take their share of responsibility. To a man, they are experienced International players who should be able to make a better fist of it than was apparent at Liverpool. Wenger didn't give away a soft free kick in a dangerous area in the first minute. The players froze in the headlights thereafter and appeared clueless how to respond. Some allowed themselves to be intimidated by the opposition, that is down to the individual's concerned, not Wenger. It's highly unlikely Liverpool will never match that level of performance again this season. What's more important is that AFC never play to that lowly level again! Time may prove it was a timely kick up the bum, starting with the next 3 games.

  73. REG NEW

    Feb 10, 2014, 11:06 #45571

    Arsene,s race horse is starting to look like a Shetland pony sign your contract fast before the dimwit form Denver wants a manager who wins something,were is lard arse today?

  74. Bard

    Feb 10, 2014, 10:48 #45570

    Alan Smith wrote a little piece suggesting that Wengers well known aversion to planning for the oppositions tactics had maybe contributed to Sats debacle. In other words if we don't dominate a game we have no plan B. I remember Alladyce saying the same thing a while back but because he's Shrek I didn't bother with it. It might explain why they always look so lost when we're under the cosh. I think it's why he's been left behind by the more tactically astute managers Rodgers,Martinez and Maureen.

  75. chris dee

    Feb 10, 2014, 10:26 #45569

    Arrogance does us again.It's been eight years but Arsene keeps landing us in s**t against the better teams. Not willing or able to adjust our tactics we happily walk blindfolded into nightmares.*ucking *ell!Have a little respect for the opposition,play a more cautious game,keep it tight for 20 minutes,don't concede soft free kicks,defend corners with your lives and then kick on.Nah! That's against Arsene's precious ideals. So here we go again.We now have three matches, which if we lose we are screwed again for another year. But if we win them .......(there you go,the blind optimism of a football fan)

  76. NEGLECT

    Feb 10, 2014, 10:05 #45567

    AS ARRY SAYS IN HIS BOOK, IT IS CRIMINAL THAT ARSENALS GREATEST CAPTAIN TONY ADAMS CONTINUES TO BE SHUNNED BY WENGER AND THE CLUB. ARSENAL DEFINITELY SEEM TO LACK MOTIVATION AND INSPIRATION AT TIMES WHICH I FIND QUITE UNBELIEVABLE WHEN I THINK BACK TO ADAMS TIME AT THE CLUB

  77. DerbyGooner

    Feb 10, 2014, 9:52 #45566

    Hmm, I wonder what part of the 'make sure you start with intensity and passion because Liverpool have done a job on a number of teams this season by destroying them in the first few minutes'....wasn't fully understood? Or maybe that point was overlooked or maybe the boys were too pre-occupied to look at the Everton game the other week? Two down to set pieces then chasing the game with a rather predictable outcome. If Southampton had shown a bit more presence of mind in front of goal, the half-time at St. Mary's would have been similar and would not have been only 1-0. The 2nd half would then have been a bit academic - rather like Anfield on Saturday. I'm old enough to remember the 5-0 drubbing at Stoke in 1970/71...which was a real stand-out in the days of the more typical 1-0, 2-1 results. One drubbing a season is unfortunate and can happen to very good teams (Man U at Newcastle) and can be put in a box by going on a winning run, a second drubbing really ought to be avoidable. What price a third? We are all a bit too old and wise to think champions can accommodate multiple high scoring defeats and get away with it. Anyway, a win on Wednesday would be a good start, any kind of win...come on boys, dig one out. And remember we did turn Stoke over in the FA Cup semi-final that year, 2-0 down back to 2-2, then won the replay. time to show some grit with a full-strength team against Liverpool. Where is Peter Storey when you need him?

  78. Ronnie

    Feb 10, 2014, 9:44 #45565

    Moscow Gooner, We don't finish fourth every year under Wenger which is what a lot of fans try to make out. Yes we have dipped over the last 8 years mainly due to the money being pumped in to certain clubs. Wengers average finish of 2.6 is better than any other long term manager and that includes Fergie. The rubbish about not beating the big teams doesn't add up either, as Chelsea, Utd and City used to always park the bus against us so hard to judge those games and in 2008 and 2010 didn't Arsenal top the mini league in games against the other top 4 teams.

  79. Moscow Gooner

    Feb 10, 2014, 8:58 #45564

    FJ: 'No other manager could achieve this other than Wenger on the money made available' Maybe right (although I think there are 5 or 6 other managers who could have at least achieved the same, we're hardly a Wigan or a WBA in money terms!) - but that's not really the point here. Now that the money IS available is he the right guy to lead the team forward beyond this season? Sentiment shouldn't come into it: it should never be about what you HAVE achieved, but instead about what you WILL achieve in the future. A 64 year old CEO at a large company who had achieved great results in his time and had then seen his company through difficult times without quite replicating those earlier successes would be given a large cheque and asked to enjoy his retirement. Wenger has been a great manager for Arsenal agreed, but in tactical terms I don't think he compares with Graham or Howe (let alone Chapman). His ethos is to nuture talent and then let players play. With the likes of DB10 and TH14 in the team, OK - although they still failed to make a real impact in Europe, which is telling. With the limitations inherent in the current squad we can sweep away the dross but fall down against teams (eg Man City) who spend big on individual talent or against teams who are well organized and tactically well drilled, (eg Southampton). End result: we finish 4th - which is more or less in line with our ranking on salary spend. This is fine for the present board and their 'business model' but is it good enough for Arsenal....???

  80. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 10, 2014, 8:56 #45563

    I was an Arsenal fan as a boy in the late 70's when they reached all those cup finals but switched to Liverpool in the eighties because I loved their achievements, I switched to Man Utd in the 90's because of their success and I loved the way the refs gave them everything and wanted to be part of the winning experience. I switched back to Arsenal in the early noughties and enjoyed the invincibles and briefly followed Chelsea too. Fed up of all the glory I know follow Spurs even though I have little interest and have more fun with my four dogs than I do at the Lane.

  81. The Holloway Bowl

    Feb 10, 2014, 8:39 #45562

    How about we channel all this negative energy into a raging torrent of passion at the HB on Wednesday?

  82. Westlower

    Feb 10, 2014, 8:26 #45561

    The Racing Post analysed how games between the top 4 clubs had a bearing on who won the league. They complied two mini leagues between the top 4 and the how the top 4 fared against the rest. The results showed that the team that topped either mini league won the title 6 times out of 10. It matters not one jot where you gain your points as long as you do. In 2006/07 & 2010/11 AFC won the top 4 mini league but didn't go on to win the title. All that matters is the team that have most points overall, regardless where they are gained. The media boys love to advertise a game as a 6 pointer, this analysis proves there is no such thing. Another myth to be thrown into the waste bin!

  83. Ed Enough......

    Feb 10, 2014, 6:21 #45560

    Did anyone really expect anything else than our usual 4-game mid-season collapse? On to Weds next to lose to the worst Utd team in 20 years... Time to wake up Gooners, we aint winning nowt with Wenger at the club. Simples.

  84. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 10, 2014, 0:19 #45559

    Really, I admit it, Wenger is actually a genius. On a shoestring budget compared to the Uniteds, Citys,and Chavs of this world has kept the mighty ARSENAL as one of the best clubs in the country over the last 10 years. Look at the state of Tottenham - having spent billions on average players in that time have actually achieved f**k all. Arsenal have achieved what they are set up to each year based on net spend. No other manager could achieve this other than Wenger on the money made available.

  85. Roy

    Feb 10, 2014, 0:04 #45558

    Manure were Sh*t today. Moyes only answer was to chuck as many forward players on as possible in order to solve the conundrum . Not exactly in the class of Maureen. If Wenger can't outthink him on Wednesday, the I'm afraid the game is up. As for you Finsbury Joe, I had a quiz question up he pub tonight about photographs - the answer being "SEPIA". Does that remind you of anything concerning title winning snaps ?? Get back in your box and learn some respect.

  86. The real real Finsbury Joe

    Feb 09, 2014, 23:40 #45557

    Don't believe the previous posters I'm the real FJ and I love Arsenal and literally worship OGL.

  87. Green Hut

    Feb 09, 2014, 23:35 #45556

    Finsbury Joe- Disappointing. Think you'd best lie low for a while then return under a different name.

  88. The real Finsbury Joe

    Feb 09, 2014, 23:31 #45555

    Imitation really is the sincerest form of flattery

  89. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 09, 2014, 23:09 #45554

    Green Hut, Yes my season ticket actually costs £825, I was using hyperbole in a previous post to show you how expensive our most expensive tickets are for 19 games compared to yours.I normally leave the games early as I keep four dogs which all need feeding.

  90. Th14afc

    Feb 09, 2014, 22:18 #45553

    Finsbury joe you are a gunner obsessed clown,that is all

  91. Green Hut

    Feb 09, 2014, 20:55 #45552

    Finsbury Joe- On a previous thread you said that your season ticket costs £1800, but now you say that you sit in the Paxton Road stand where the most you could pay for this season is £895. I'd hate to think that you are fibbing.

  92. Gooner1981

    Feb 09, 2014, 20:32 #45551

    Maybe Finsbury Joe, you could shut up and p*ss off back to your little council house? Regardless of our current performance under AW, i'd be more concerned about getting your own house in order first. But lovely of you to be passing comment on the Arsenal - you lot are obsessed with us because you're just a little club from a big council estate.

  93. RDT - 4

    Feb 09, 2014, 20:28 #45550

    And another thing. Instead of Wenger falling on his arse as he rushed to get home in time to watch The Voice, he could've stayed in the North West to watch today's game and work out how to beat the Mancs. Earn your salary FFS!

  94. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 09, 2014, 20:15 #45549

    Treble Double. my house is actually one of the terrace houses attached to WHL so I can be home in minutes. I have a season ticket in the Paxton end.

  95. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 09, 2014, 19:57 #45548

    Seven Kings, fair point on the ox although i'm sure he didn't need much persuading, but it probably wouldn't have made much difference to OGL anyway as he likes to break players and then get them fixed and out again as quickly as possible regardless. And by the way mate there were a lot of fans thinking we'd do the same to the scousers yesterday.

  96. Treble Double

    Feb 09, 2014, 19:37 #45546

    @Finsbury Joe - you said in an earlier post on this thread you were going to the game today but judging by the time of your post after the spuds game you didn't. Your first thought after your team won was to troll a Gooner forum. We all knew this anyway but you really are a grade 1 tool! You're not even a proper spud. How very sad and unfulfilled.

  97. PTGooner

    Feb 09, 2014, 19:18 #45545

    Good editorial.So many poor 1st half displays this season. We been scraping wins against ordinary opposition (2-0 up and let's sit back and let our amazing defence do the rest!) fact is we've no pace, our attack has turned to one gear and how can you win the league with Giroud -hate players who smile after they miss a chance-as your main striker? Not totally out of it but still a team of bottlers against the top teams

  98. Goonertime

    Feb 09, 2014, 19:08 #45544

    Why does Wenger not play Vermaelen as defensive midfielder ? I am sure he would shore up the defense further and hopefully in big matches stop us getting tonked again and again.

  99. Ron

    Feb 09, 2014, 18:31 #45543

    Grow up Gooners being critical of the team has been proved that it never works. You can't expect the so called AKB's to carry the teams support each week while the WOB's go off crying and joining forces with the media and opposition fans. Time for you wasters to grow some, no ones asking for your pathetic support anyway. Go make another boring banner or plan a March so us AKB's can hurl fruit at you tarts like we did last year. And stop moaning about some of our players it's because you babies were crying so much that certain individuals were brought in in the first place. There's lots of proper fans in the 45,000 waiting list for season tickets, so if you don't like it you know what to do. Adios losers.

  100. Ronnie

    Feb 09, 2014, 18:03 #45542

    Danny/Finsbury Joe. Stick to your pathetic Glory Glory and fighting penis sites. Your cooperation is not needed Spud losers.

  101. TAXI FOR WENGER ?

    Feb 09, 2014, 17:48 #45541

    Martinez would have been ideal for Arsenal. he is a smart coach with a very limited squad and budget. always comes with fresh ideas and energy. Dr Wenger's best days are way way past him but he is accumulating pound notes at such a rate that he wont let go easily. His greedy fingers will have to be prised away from the AFC cash machine.

  102. Greg71

    Feb 09, 2014, 17:27 #45540

    Bottom of the table Fulham score at old trafford as everyone does nowadays don,t they ? How many goals has their red headed midfielder got this season,how much did he cost and who was his first club ? When Arsenal lost to Stoke by 5 in 71 it was before xmas.

  103. Danny

    Feb 09, 2014, 17:18 #45539

    Westlower, is that was you got. you think we are spuds because we differ from your opinion You are one of idiots who are keeping this coach in his job One of the highest paid jobs and have no accountability shame on you bud and the rest of AKBs i love arsenal and i want progression , not stagnation that is what we have under this idiot who does nothing to strengthen the team. BTW, did you pictures of Wenger failing. This is what is going happen with us.

  104. Westlower

    Feb 09, 2014, 16:58 #45538

    @Finsbury Joe/Danny, You've finally got rid of your negative goal difference, you simply don't have any goal difference. How embarrassing is that for a team in 5th spot. Before you get too carried away you are now 289/1 on the betting exchanges to be Champions. The odds tell you where you really stand in life! Everton outplayed you today but you got away with it thanks to an ex-Arsenal striker.

  105. IT IS WORSE THAN ALL OF YOU THINK

    Feb 09, 2014, 16:30 #45537

    the fixture list has been kind. i told you we would get nothing from liv, ever, chels, spurs away and i stand by that. we were crap at man ut, manu city and at liv. southampton outplayed us. Martinez, Sherwood, Rogers, Mourinhro bring energy to their teams; Wenger is old and slow and has no edge. our transfer dealings since DD left are nervous, uncertain and never that smart anymore. The decline is here you just havnt spotted it yet

  106. Ronnie

    Feb 09, 2014, 16:12 #45536

    Finsbury Joe. I watched that poor excuse of a game this afternoon and if it wasn't for a free kick taken when Everton weren't ready and the linesman letting adebayor off being half a yard offside, then the game would have been goalless. The top four is already decided, so enjoy your battle with Everton and Manure to see who'll be playing on Thursdays next season. Hahahahahahahahaha.

  107. Bob

    Feb 09, 2014, 16:09 #45535

    Groundhog Day. It is as predictable as ever, this time of year. I wish it was like the one in America - I would bite your hand off for just "six more weeks of Wenger"!

  108. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 09, 2014, 16:06 #45534

    Great summing up as usual Kev - I have always felt we are never more than 90 minutes away from a performance like that at Anfield. In these big games you need the team to be "straining at the bit" but asking Wenger to rev up the team for a fight is like asking a pacifist to win a war! I thought it was very unfair to ask the Ox to play, in what was his second full outing, such a key role in an extremely high tempo match. We were just awful no other words for it - however if we had won I would have still urged caution so lets see what happens Wednesday. Still think we will put Liverpool out of the cup though. I heard Sanogo thumped the BFG in training last week - if he is fit enough to fight then he is fit enough to play football, get him out there Arsene, we are going to need some muscle in the coming weeks!

  109. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 09, 2014, 16:05 #45533

    Moscow Gooner, your right it will be swept under the carpet like the others, and a good effort made to air brush it out of history by his fans.

  110. Rocky RIP

    Feb 09, 2014, 16:03 #45532

    @Finsbury - S**** show Wenger how to beat Everton?! You've surpassed yourself. Wenger's Arsenal 7-0 Everton (2005) and Everton 1 v 6 Wenger's Arsenal (2009) ring any bells? Not to mention Wenger's Arsenal 4-0 Everton to clinch the title in 1998. (I'll let you into a little secret. The title, in case you aren't familiar with it over at the cesspit in Middlesex, is what you win if you come first at the end of a season. You should try it, it's such fun. Especially winning it under the bitter noses of your vilest enemy.)

  111. Ron

    Feb 09, 2014, 15:53 #45531

    I see no difference between the likes of Finsbury Joe and the anti Wenger mob. All would much rather knock Arsenal and have love ins with our rivals.

  112. Danny

    Feb 09, 2014, 15:46 #45530

    We are made in the image of teh coach. Mentially weak and tactically very poor. We will continue getting results like this until he is fired. Yes we have done well during the season, but this is a ilusion and temporary state. our true shape is starting now a downward spirral to 4th 5th position we cannot go further with this coach. he holding us back

  113. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 09, 2014, 15:25 #45529

    Well well, the neighbours show wenger how to beat Everton. By the end of we'd, the neighbours are likely to be only five points behind Arsenal, with an easier run in, a bigger squad, less crocks......and the game at WHL, which is likely to be a repeat of yesterday. Wenger is a moral coward who will now sign his contract ASAP, because when he finishes outside the top four, even the idiots running the club will withdraw their over generous offer.

  114. Westlower

    Feb 09, 2014, 15:19 #45528

    'Jjetplane, I see no reason to throw the towel in because we are still very much in the frame. My experiences in racing have taught me to remain positive during adversity. Better to be constructive than destructive! Such a shame Flamini is suspended right now, just when we need him. I was only relaying a story I read in today's Express re Gareth Barry. To quote Badarse "don't shoot the messenger", I suspect he's had a gut full of people sniping at him for giving his honest views. Ron will return all guns blazing after he's recovered from his trip to Liverpool. @Underachiever, I'm not involved in transfer dealings or possess any AFC shares, I wish!

  115. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 09, 2014, 15:09 #45527

    John F, I doubt much thought (if any)is given to counteract ANY team or ANY game It's just go out there and play your, sorry my game and lets hope it comes off, and again we see what can happen, another humiliation, Pathetic.

  116. Bard

    Feb 09, 2014, 14:59 #45526

    Westie you are pulling our legs with the Barry suggestion ? Suggestions of summer signings is a worrying new agenda from the sites foremost optimist. The problem for Wenger with Barry is that he is fit although he will be cheap. I'm still hoping Sanogo will propel us to title glory , coming off the bench when we're 3 nil down against Bayern, scoring a hat trick. Tangentially, is it possible that if we bomb the rest of the season, quite possible on yesterdays evidence, that Wenger won't sign a new contract ?

  117. Carlos

    Feb 09, 2014, 14:52 #45525

    We'll find out over the fortnight whether this was a bad day at the office or a repetition of previous seasons' unravelling.

  118. jjetplane

    Feb 09, 2014, 14:45 #45524

    Westie - have you also chucked the hat in for the season now you are talking summer signings. The problems at Arsenal are bigger than bit-part Barry shoring us up. Where is the great Flamini/Arteta in this ongoing revolution? Why are we interested in players who have had their day acting supposedly as the old heads on the pitch? Arsenal need to cut ticket prices, get rid of the economist and really bring on the youngsters and get some pride going. If we win nought this season than it will be the Chavs topping the China football charts. What really suprised me lately is when the head honcho departed from Sainbury's they did not offer it to Le Prof? My other thought is the wheels also coming off for Citeh and them trophyless come the summer. Now that would be fun and wholly deserved. Cue two old grey men of football sharing the same private beach come summer. Anyway, stick with it and where on earth has Ron and Badarse got to? Worrying times indeed.

  119. jeff wright

    Feb 09, 2014, 14:36 #45523

    Someone who thinks that 0-0 is worse than losing 5-1 is hardly qualified to call others knobheads.

  120. Realist

    Feb 09, 2014, 14:11 #45522

    Ozil is paid to set up goals and play balls through and control the midfield. He's not paid to go round kicking lumps out of players like Stevie G,G Barry or Ryan Shawcross. If you want to go and watch lump ball get a ticket in the Kop, Shed, Shelf or Chicken Run,Knobhead.

  121. Is the 'usual february collapse' a myth?

    Feb 09, 2014, 13:55 #45521

    Based on the way we overturned a 10 point gap on Tottenham from Feb 26th 2012 onwards, I'd say yes. Based on how we went on a magnificent run from Feb/Mar onwards in 2013 I'd also say yes.

  122. Prof. A. Wenger

    Feb 09, 2014, 13:52 #45520

    All you people who have never kicked a ball in your life! Why should I take any notice of you? What have you won ? That's right: nothing! And me? Look at my record! Of course you can't win everything every year, and all these things go in cycles- our time will come again. I ask you all to show patience.When Abou is fit again it will be like a new signing, and he will make all the difference. So, Mikel is just a little slow, cannot tackle, make a forward pass, nor rouse his players as captain, but look how he put that penalty away under such pressure! You must forgive him everything else. Anyway, lok how much possession we had yesterday: we won that by a mile, and that surely is the important thing? when you have the ball, the opposition cannot score, n'estpa ?

  123. jeff wright

    Feb 09, 2014, 13:32 #45519

    Realist, did you hear Ronaldo say that about Ozil ,or have you just read it somewhere? And if he was that good then how come Perez sold him and why were there no other clubs after him. United wanted Fabregas ,Chelsea wanted Rooney last summer Ferguson had turnrd down any approach for Ozil when he was at United .. I would sooner have Cesc or Rooney than waste of space Ozil. GG was called Stroller but in his case it was because he made things look easy . Ozil however just strolls about giving the ball away with an expression on his face of : Was mache ich hier ! Many of are thinking the same.

  124. Realist

    Feb 09, 2014, 13:06 #45518

    If you think deeply about what your saying. Ozil looks average in our team, which means as Wenger said we have excellent players which in your logic are far better than what Real Madrid has. As Ronaldo said that Ozil was a class above all the other players as Madrid. Anybody can score a few goals from dodgy set plays, but not everyone can move the ball about with class. Yesterdays result was a freak with Liverpool playing in their cup final and giving all they had. Watch their next game they will be back to their normal s-hite selves.

  125. underacheiver

    Feb 09, 2014, 12:55 #45517

    Seriously, signing Barry in the summer? Is that meant to cheer us up Westlower? It just makes me more depressed. More of the same, doing everything on the cheap. But as a shareholder that will be good for you wont it?

  126. Silly Billy

    Feb 09, 2014, 12:51 #45516

    i think barry wood make us stronger everton only lost 4-0 with him playing at liverpool

  127. Jason B

    Feb 09, 2014, 12:31 #45515

    Don't know what was worse, the sight of our defence caving in or the sight of kroneke with his hot water bottle in the directors box.

  128. Westlower

    Feb 09, 2014, 12:22 #45514

    Story in today's newspaper that we'll be in for Gareth Barry in the summer. We failed to sign him last summer because Man City wouldn't let him go to a title rival. He's out of contract this time around so he's available. Not the most glamorous of signings but he's what we're missing, a robust, solid defensive midfielder who can shield the defence, while freeing up the offensive midfielders, JW, Ox, Rosicky, Ozil, Cazorla, Ramsey.

  129. Richard

    Feb 09, 2014, 12:15 #45513

    Please drop that overrated Ozil (got to be one of the worst panic buys in history) Rosicky twice the player. Ozil simply has no heart or character and is no more then a decent player on he's say. Real Madrid do not sell their best players.

  130. Charlie

    Feb 09, 2014, 12:09 #45512

    No one who saw the performance v Southampton could be surprised by yesterdays result.Southampton battered us in the first half but they had a rookie striker playing.What we did see yesterday though was the difference between a world class striker Suarez and what we have.Ozil on the other hand looks a million miles from world class and his body language looks like a player who doent want to be here

  131. Bergkamp 10

    Feb 09, 2014, 11:43 #45511

    Would like to know if you have ever seen an attacking performance like that before?

  132. Torbay gooner

    Feb 09, 2014, 11:40 #45510

    Fair article kevin, let's face it our last truly convincing performance was against the same opponents back in November. That game we pressed them and never gave them a moment to settle. They did the same to us yesterday with a rather more devastating outcome. We simply cannot handle teams that press us and always seem to look to the ref when we lose possession as a result a la Ozil/Wiltshire. I do not understand why we consistently start a match in slumber mode, even against opponents like Palace and Fulham. We have an extra days rest over United to produce a positive response and then a great chance to get revenge over Liverpool next weekend. However, what's the betting Monsieur Wenger with one eye on the champs league will play Flappy in goal and supernic up front. Got to be worried by Ozil's continued poor form and dare I say attitude!

  133. BringBackDene

    Feb 09, 2014, 11:35 #45509

    After weeks at the top of the Premiership, why am I not surprised at all by yesterdays performance. I'ts been on the cards...!!!

  134. jeff wright

    Feb 09, 2014, 11:31 #45508

    The only one worrying is you Realist. Most of already know that we won't win the league , and that teams like Norwich fighting for survival can just as easily take points from us. Apart from those ones like United home ,spuds away,Everton away. The optimistic view that all our players have to do is man up and United will crumble before them because Moyes is out of his depth and United are yesterday’s men looks to be based on shaky evidence. Is this the Moyes who got a draw last season with Everton at our gaff and who has already beaten mighty Arsene at OT this season when we were supposedly in title winning form and his crew were struggling ? Also , despite some shocking performances, United have popped up unexpectedly with some shock wins on occasion Ask Dortmund, Deutschland’s second best side, about it. Then there is the little matter of Rooney, Persie and Mata who like playing us. We can win the game but it’s no forgone conclusion that we will do so. We didn’t look that convincing against either Palace or Cardiff , and although United are not the side of yesterday they are still better than those pair and also have more firepower. It looks like it will be another nervy night with Chelsea likely to be 4 points ahead of us when we kick-off. It’s only due to the unlikely intervention of Fat Sam who somehow managed to get a 0-0 at the bridge of sighs recently that Jose is not already over the hill and gone . If we don’t raise our game with the tough run of fixtures ahead of us we could well be fighting for 4th place again with the pack closing in on us if results go their way today .

  135. Bard

    Feb 09, 2014, 11:27 #45507

    Lets hope you are right Westie and it was one of those blips, although we do seem to have a lot of them. To me they looked spent. They couldn't keep pace with Liverpool. I agree that they looked the same in the first half against Southampton. As we don't have much of a squad, despite all the spin, maybe they are just knackered. Mind you it is February and we do like a monumental collapse about this time of the year. I repeat what I said we're ok at the moment but if we hang on to 4th spot we will have done well. Have you seen our March fixtures, Spuds Everton Chelsea, Citeh.

  136. Realist

    Feb 09, 2014, 11:23 #45506

    If we win 90% of the games against the little teams=69pts plus 50% against big teams=18pts.=87pts.We are on course to be champions, stop worrying.

  137. WENGER OUT

    Feb 09, 2014, 11:21 #45505

    Westie - we played just as badly at Southampton, they just lacked the fire power of Liverpool to finish us off. So there goes your can't play this badly again theory.

  138. jeff wright

    Feb 09, 2014, 10:44 #45504

    Get real, how is 0-0 a worse result than losing 5-1? You get a point for 0-0 . 5-1 you get f all other than a worse G/D. That is a fact.

  139. Realist

    Feb 09, 2014, 10:33 #45503

    Citeh dropping points at Norwich was a worse result.

  140. Arsene's Huge Cash Pile

    Feb 09, 2014, 10:24 #45502

    Higuain scored twice against AC Milan last night, he's second highest scorer in Serie A. Just saying.

  141. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 09, 2014, 10:20 #45501

    Finsbury Joe: I had a Liver bird on a blokes weekender up in Yarmouth back in the day. She tasted fowl

  142. George Lucas the Gooner

    Feb 09, 2014, 10:12 #45500

    Awful in defence but this has overshadowed the problems up front. Great chance for Giroud at 1-0 to maybe change the game but to not even get a shot in highlights our decline in this area. When Chelsea strengthen in this area in the Summer, we will be miles behind City, Liverpool with Suarez and Mourinho.

  143. Even more Realist

    Feb 09, 2014, 10:11 #45499

    @Realist if you think Wenger will play a strong team v Liverpool next week 3 days before Bayern i want what you are smoking.Bendtner and Flappy will be starting while Liverpool will be full strength.

  144. N4

    Feb 09, 2014, 10:10 #45498

    I wonder where are the people who is always upbeat and positve about AW and Arsenal....!!! WE are a joke! AW needs to go!!!

  145. GoonerRon

    Feb 09, 2014, 10:08 #45497

    What a **** day and **** performance. I always felt it was going to be a really tough game but was shell shocked to be 4-0 down in 20 minutes. One thing was for certain - Liverpool were going to come out with a quick start and just seemed ill-prepared for it - at least Wenger publicly criticised his own performance. It isn't terminal though, only one point off the lead with 13 games to go is a position we all would have taken at the start of the season, I'm sure. And for all those saying we are flat track bullies, Citeh's result yesterday, Chelsea dropping points at home to West Ham etc, demonstrate that the consistency we've shown against the teams we should beat shouldn't be taken for granted. Massive game on Wednesday, the team must show once again our capacity to react well to a defeat.

  146. Gooner67

    Feb 09, 2014, 10:06 #45496

    Again we have been drawn into a false sense of belief. We have beaten lower ranked teams playing exciting football with lots of passing and movements off the ball. But when we play the bigger teams we just cannot do it. Wenger is a stubborn as they come not wanting to spend in the transfer window just gone apart from an injured midfield player. We desperately needed a quality striker, a proven midfield player due to our injuries. But this is stubborn Wenger we're talking about who in his deluded mind seriously believe we have enough quality to challenge for the Premier League, FA Cup and Champions League. Seriously Wenger, really? Why the Board has given Wenger so much time where other clubs spit out Managers after 6 months is surely clear for all to see. A top 4 place, sell tickets at the bowl, and sell shirts that's Wenger's KPI's!

  147. Westlower

    Feb 09, 2014, 9:54 #45495

    It's important we don't overreact as we surely can't ever play that badly again. Sh*t happens! Our confidence completely drained away after the first 2 goals. Liverpool had one of those day's when everything they tried came off. They have played 8 games less than AFC and it showed yesterday as they were sharper in mind & body. Our midfield looked powder puff & too lightweight (desperate for a Diaby type to shore it up). Anfield is intimidating when the home side have their tails up, they handed out a similar 4-0 beating to Everton in their previous home game. It's all about Wednesday & AFC showing some fight to restore belief & pride. We may be down today but we're not dead yet!

  148. Realist

    Feb 09, 2014, 9:51 #45494

    Liverpool aren't top draw most of their goals were ala Stoke/West Ham. Arsenal were still far better than them on the ball and I can see us tearing them a new one at the Emirates on Sunday.

  149. Moscow Gooner

    Feb 09, 2014, 9:34 #45493

    Agree with this assessment: the lack of guys in the team who can step up against top draw opposition - rather than hiding away - is a concern although I recall that the same charge was also leveled against TH14 on occasion... The next ten days is THE decisive period for the season and also for AW (new contracts notwithstanding). Wins against Utd and Liverpool and a decent showing against Bayern, and Anfield will be written off as a blip like the 0-5 versus Stoke in '71. We'd still be well-placed for the league and given a QF draw at home to City(!) would be favourites for the Cup. Failure to win any of those games and I think it's game over for Arsene as well as the season. No trophies for being top of the league in January... That said I think we will produce. I would like to believe that this team has more resilience than the squads of recent years. The next ten days will tell.

  150. Silver Gooner

    Feb 09, 2014, 8:55 #45492

    We have so far taken just 5 points from a possible 18 in the games against the four teams around us (City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Everton). Yes, we are managing to beat the poorer sides but we simply struggle against the better ones. And we are not helped by a manager who sits slumped in his seat shaking his head while his team are being torn to shreds. Quite extraordinary, and I can only assume he hadn't got a clue. Which begs the question...what exactly are we paying him for? His misplaced belief that we can get away with having two average strikers in the squad will blow any chance we had of winning the title. The contrasting performances of Giroud and Suarez just about sums it up!

  151. John F

    Feb 09, 2014, 8:45 #45491

    I do not think any thought was given to how to counteract Liverpool's attacking game. Why play 5 central midfielders three of whom could not tackle a bag of crisps and leave players on the bench who can play out wide. I like Girouds work rate but when he was put in a great position after Liverpool's first goal he looked like he was playing with concrete boots on.I think Wenger might be putting his faith in his young strikers like campbell coming through rather then sign a striker.It is an issue in recent years he can not quiet get right.Sign Quality or keep with potential.

  152. Bard

    Feb 09, 2014, 8:28 #45490

    Very balanced Kev. Its only a disaster for those who actually thought we were in with a shout. The lack of activity in the Jan window was evidence enough that Wenger wasn't serious. CL qualification is still his goal and we are still in a good position to finish 4th. All the other stuff about challenging for this or that has always been a lot of hot air. But cheer up do you realise how many shirts we sell in Africa and China?

  153. Derek

    Feb 09, 2014, 8:06 #45489

    Think you have been very kind Kevin you wrote the same after the two Manchester games.This game was up there will the 8-2 and the Newcastle debacles.Less face facts Wenger is tactically bankrupt.His teams have one way of playing.So we go to Anfield one of the best home teams in the league and play like we are going to play Fulham.Cesc famously said Wenger never planned for the opposition before a game its always go out and play your own game.Lets take our heads out of the sand and tell the truth about Ozil.He has been very poor no more excuses.Yesterday as in the two Machester away games he may as well have sat in the stand for all the influence he had on the games.For the last two months he has been our worst player.We are like a playground bully we can beat up all the little kids but when we face some one our own size we run home crying to mummy.We have been here before many times in the last 9 years really we should be used to it.The one good thing was Kroenke was there to see the slaughter.No new contract

  154. divingrooney

    Feb 09, 2014, 6:20 #45488

    The title chase was never built on these games. It was built on being flat track bullies, and being ruthless against lower level teams. Yes, its a bad loss, but its one game. We are still one point from the top, so nothing is doom and gloom. If any of you have hopes of defeating Bayern in CL, then welcome to Planet Earth. As we have home game, we should be able to defeat Liverpool in FA cup. We are like Athletico Madrid, competing against 2 biggest spenders on the planet. We should try to enjoy the company of these big guns a lot more than we do. After selling the like of RVP, Fabregas, Nasri, etc , one Ozil is not the panacea. Ramsey is our best player, and Walcott the best striker. Without them we are struggling, and it shows...

  155. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 09, 2014, 1:44 #45487

    80's Gooner, so there's something that gives you a warm feeling about this team? i don't know if you're laughing or crying but look down and check if you've p****d yourself.

  156. The Real Finsbury Joe

    Feb 09, 2014, 1:41 #45486

    Whats the betting a desperate wenger insults us all by signing a deal this week......before even the gimps that keep him in place alter the terms and conditions? # 25 million for nine years ....and counting ...of failure...great future eh Goons?

  157. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 09, 2014, 1:17 #45485

    R/K, not many of us did, regardless of the fact we beat them at home (this result kind of puts that one in the shade so don't expect to hear it used as a stat again) or the fact we were top of the pile and league leaders, with this great defensive record that we keep hearing about with all these stats, as we know it means nothing as far as this manager and his shower are concerned and it was proved again today. You'd have thought they would have put up some kind of performance or shown some kind of pride, or shown this imaginary mental strength and tried to stop another humiliation after telling us they'd learned their lesson after all the others instead of letting us become a laughing stock again, but no, they just weren't capable with this old fraud on the side lines just sitting there while they all ran around like headless chickens.

  158. dazzy90

    Feb 09, 2014, 0:54 #45484

    Following last weeks withdrawn post due to foul language, I'll try to keep it within the boundaries of the site's rules... As stated by numerous other posts, and an opinion I have had for the past 4 or 5 seasons - Wenger is a clueless clown with no tactical nous in the big games, against top class opposition / managers. None. How many more big games do we need to witness his ineptitude?? How many more embarrassing performances do we have to witness?? What was the point of all that b0ll0cks he spouted earlier this week about the team being mentally prepared for the title fight??! FFS Wenger! Have you ANY clue on how to fire a team up? Any clue on how to approach a match and the opposition? Liverpool away, City away, Utd away, Southampton away to name a few! As for your record against Mourinho - 20 games and not beaten him ONCE!! Hang your head in shame!!!! Disgraceful. I suspect there is no pre-match analysis or preperation to any given game. If there is, then it must be led by the tea lady. We are where we are in the table due to the amount of games played thus far this season against average opposition, and a core group of players hitting good form early - Ramsey, Giroud, Rosicky, and dare I say it Wally Walcott! However, the wheels came off when Ramsey got injured. His drive and desire coupled with goals gave us the edge in games when required. Our January Transfer dealings are an embarrassment of the highest order, and one that makes the club a laughing stock to all. Every man and his dog knew, could see what was required at which position in the team to strengthen. Really Wenger, you are clueless. Top marks to you for the administration of a business, but your running of a football team to compete at the highest level (which is what the Arsenal Football Club is in existence for) is beyond incompetent. For Arsenal to move forward on the pitch and win something, please please please GO! Get in Dennis B, TH, or even a non Arsenal man - Martinez for example. 40 years support for the AFC will continue for another 40, but my season ticket might though get the boot come June renewal time as I'm clearly lining the pockets of a priviledged few who don't give 2 f_ck5 about the fans and winning things. Or maybe, really, football is actually FIXED! And we are not on the list of title winners this year. Again.

  159. Andreas

    Feb 09, 2014, 0:54 #45483

    Looking back at history the 70/71 team got thumped 5-0 away at stoke in the title run in, and still squeezed a double in. This team has the character to pull round a result. If they want to win the league they'll have to use the traditional Arsenal method. Doing it the hard way. Until we fall 4 points behind chelski/city then there is still a hope there.

  160. Enfield Eric

    Feb 09, 2014, 0:34 #45482

    Makes a change for Finsbury Joe. Normally he goes to games at ****e Hart Lane dressed as a cock-rel LOL!

  161. Wombledon

    Feb 08, 2014, 23:47 #45481

    Today we just looked like a team dismayed at Wenger's failure to find another striker and under too much pressure to push up so the midfielders can score, because, frankly, Giroud is **** and today he really showed it. Statistically the worst converter of chances in the premiership. An utter donkey, incapable of holding the ball up or doing anything good today, only scores obvious goals usually from scrappy chances. Players like Ozil and Cazorla are playing without a target, they know it, and they are dismayed at Wenger's pathetic failure to buy a decent striker in the window or start Podolski today.

  162. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 08, 2014, 23:34 #45480

    There will be some serious celebrations tomorrow at the Lane. It's a theme match and I'm going dressed as a Liver bird. Ha ha ha,

  163. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 08, 2014, 23:19 #45479

    Anyone else notice Ozil......his expression says " My God....what have I done?"

  164. Ron

    Feb 08, 2014, 23:15 #45478

    Shut it Finsbury Joe, or I'll feed you to my dog you spud half-wit.

  165. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 08, 2014, 22:40 #45476

    Pathetic, embarrassing, Gooners the world over are squirming. Yet again , a manager devoid of tactics and preparation for the team falters in the most spectacular way. I told you this team will finish sixth, only one team can make skirtel and toure look good. ARSENAL ARE A SHAMBLES of wengers making. PATHETIC

  166. Jason B

    Feb 08, 2014, 22:19 #45475

    Watched the game with 2 Liverpool fans and having Sunday lunch with a.man u fan and a spurs fans.Help!!

  167. AFC14

    Feb 08, 2014, 22:08 #45474

    0-4 Down at half time..still the same eleven came out for the second half.

  168. Roy

    Feb 08, 2014, 21:34 #45473

    The games up Arsene. Win the next two or get yer coat.

  169. allybear

    Feb 08, 2014, 21:26 #45472

    No matter what the score is the Wengerites will always have excuses. Anyone that knows football knew that Liverpool were going to start at full steam&had worked out the frailties in the Arsenal team. As has been said here Arsenal have an inferiority complex when up against the top teams. Wenger doesnt deserve a new contract for his mismanagement for the last number of years.

  170. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 08, 2014, 21:25 #45471

    craszy gunner, Good shout but it's not IF OGL can find the solution it's because he can't or doesn't know how to

  171. au revoir wenger

    Feb 08, 2014, 21:24 #45470

    Arsenal will never win anything under Wenger and as for Marty Feldman he is the biggest waste of money ever

  172. WENGER OUT

    Feb 08, 2014, 21:20 #45469

    I think some miscreant has hijacked Ron the reasonable.

  173. Ron

    Feb 08, 2014, 21:04 #45468

    Father Ted, Pork off! or I'll grizzle ya.

  174. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 08, 2014, 21:04 #45467

    Another humiliation under this old man but it shouldn't come as much of a surprise we were due one and we should be used to them by now, although i thought it might have come in the FA cup against lower league opposition with the excuses we fielded an under strength team, or it was too cold,or the ref and lines men under orders not to let us win,or something along those lines. But then there was Bradford and Blackburn and we weren't exactly under strength there. But no instead it was against another Premiership team a team years behind Arsenal (supposedly) (it certainly didn't look like it today) in the middle of rebuilding which will take years(it certainly didn't look like it today) with a manager who's only been managing in the prem for a handful of years and couldn't hold a candle to the old man we have, it certainly didn't look like it today (and i doubt there's a manager in the prem and further afield who hasn't this old mans number) as that team and that manager tore OGL and his team a new one and made them look like ones as well, while giving them a lesson. But will that matter? will it F**k he'll send them out for the next game the same way with the same instructions that's if there's any at all. Regardless of the position we still find ourselves in, and the excuses for OGL and this shower that i'm sure are already flowing there's not one of them that can look at themselves in the mirror tonight or tomorrow or the next day without the word humiliated jumping out at them.

  175. Martyn

    Feb 08, 2014, 21:01 #45466

    Credit to Liverpool, they went for a quick start knowing that Arsenal have deliberately laboured in the first half of most games; remember Southampton? We lack the pace of Walcott and were woeful going forward. This defeat is not, however, terminal and will possibly provide a platform for defeating United on Wednesday. What frustrates me more than anything is Wenger's inability to change tactically. Ok, we were dead and buried by the time we made substitutions after 60 minutes, but why are the changes always like for like? Giroud up front on his own is not going to bring us trophies much as I admire his tenacity and effort for the cause. Lets get revenge in the cup next week and go forward knowing that there are no clear favourites for the title this year. Hope, more than expection, springs to mind.

  176. Father_Ted

    Feb 08, 2014, 20:55 #45465

    @Ron. Why don't you go and shove a cricket stump up your fat hairy arse...

  177. Ron

    Feb 08, 2014, 20:53 #45464

    Watched the City game after and they looked far worse than.Most light weights were predicting a 4th/5th place finish so stop complaining A holes.

  178. RED FRED

    Feb 08, 2014, 20:51 #45463

    Not far away but Santi and Ozil are playing ****e at mo and Arteta is no captain. We need a leader big time to push us on and Monreal is dodgy at best. Up the gooners.....

  179. Mark T

    Feb 08, 2014, 20:50 #45462

    Kev the first half performance today was no different than the dismal first half performance v Southampton 10 days ago except Southampton didnt have Suarez Sturridge or Sterling if they did that would have been 4-0 at half time.Todays result has been coming even Stevie Wonder could see that.How you think we will get anything at Everton Spuds and Chelsea beggars belief.We wont get nothing.Because unlike Mourinho's Chelsea Wenger teams cant grind out results.Wenger should be locked away in a room and made to watch the Man City v Chelsea game a thousand times to see how to win games against your rivals.But Wenger will never change the man is too stubborn and arrogant to admit he is wrong.This club and its fans have been brainwashed into thinking 4th is a trophy by Wenger.Another Groundhog season.Bill Murray for manager.All together now I Got You Babe

  180. Saibal Dutta

    Feb 08, 2014, 20:41 #45460

    I think as fans we are the ones who are more soft in our bellies than the players are. 1 point below the leaders and we are here talking as if we are relegated. We seem to have forgotten that we have lost Flamini, Walcott and Ramsey and still grinding results. Look at City, no Aguero, no Fenandinho they are dropping points faster than Arsenal. what happened to the star studdded 4-5 feared strikers of the world playing together? They can't win against Norwich? I think if we are questioning the creativity in the game... well Liverpool did park the bus after that 4-0 in 16 mins.They were lucky with the first 2 goals (both set pieces) and yes, the first 2 goals rattled us and then the nerves took over. But we all forget that if Chelsea, Liverpool and City were so creative then they should be 10 pts ahead of us. As far as grinding results week in week out at away games even against the mid-table teams isn't easy.. One example was tonite, city drawing to Norwich and Chelsea levelled by West Ham. Lets not over dissect and kick in our frights and get into our usual shells. Lets be proud - that out of the last 25 games we topped the league for 21 of those. Lets be behind the team in wins and loses.

  181. Treble Double

    Feb 08, 2014, 20:38 #45459

    A hugely disappointing performance and probably the worst since the humbling at the Mancs a few seasons ago. At least when we were beaten by City this season we offered something going forward and were still in the game in the second half. We just didn't look prepared at all, the attitude was all wrong and 5-1 flattered us. To not be fully prepared is criminal, there was no reason before this game why we shouldn't have got something from it. The Scousers were very good today but we made them look amazing. The passing was terrible, the work rate non existent and the defending appalling - not just the back 4 but as a team as a whole. I agree with Kev that this result doesn't have to be terminal but fear it will be. We are a team built on confidence and I think today will hit us hard. We must beat the Mancs on Wednesday but is anyone really confident that we will? I hope I'm wrong but my sense of de ja vu is rather foreboding and I fear the worst, not just Wednesday but the next 3 games. I would take 3 points on Wednesday and retribution next weekend in the FA Cup and an exit from CL without a thought. Our squad is just not strong enough to cope with the injuries we have and the number of big games coming up. I guess there was always a big chance that this could happen but we have not been proactive enough in either January or last summers windows. I hope I'm wrong and we go on another winning run because I try to be as positive as I can but we have all been here before. Will this season have the same ending?

  182. Yankee Doodle Gooner

    Feb 08, 2014, 20:37 #45458

    shut it you whinging limey's

  183. Ron

    Feb 08, 2014, 20:26 #45456

    Oh shut up you Anti Arsenal glory hunting bores.

  184. Tom Watt

    Feb 08, 2014, 20:14 #45455

    We are going to finish 4th.Wenger is tactically clueless.The season will be over in a fortnight.Bayern will rip us a new one.Liverpool win beat a weakended team next sunday 3 days before Bayern.We were NEVER going to win the title.The race is on to finish 4th.As with all things Wenger over the last 9 years its the Kings New Clothes.Ozil worth £42m you having a laugh

  185. DW Thomas

    Feb 08, 2014, 20:11 #45454

    Alsace...like your reference to Ghog Day. But doesn't Bill Murray eventually get it right and win the woman's heart? This club never learns. Just watched That Damn United and it is a bit of a sad story. Only Clough won 2 back to back European Cups not long after his debacle at Leeds. Favorite scene is when he tells the Leeds players to throw their trophies in the bin as they were won via cheating and rough house tactics. Can you imagine Wenger saying something like that to this team? Telling them to grow up and fight as they've won nothing yet? Not a chance. He'll coddle them and make excuse after excuse for them. We need fresh ideas, better tactics, and a goal scorer that oozes winning. Otherwise we will be consistent at one thing only...not finishing first!

  186. jjetplane

    Feb 08, 2014, 20:06 #45453

    The evidence is disturbing that the post-match 'chat' showed no register of anger or passion from Wenger. Someone has already said on here it was no suprise we got torn to bits again because the fact is this will happen again and again until we get a sea change and people in the dug out are there for the football and not the longterm family monied portfolio. If Wenger doesn't want to go the extra mile, then why should the players and what a time to throw in the towel when even Citeh are having a wobble. Liverpool are still an ordinary side and yet our mind set was 'don't wanna do this'. Other teams are now picking up steam and Pulis is even giving our great leader a run for the money. Excuse me for laughing as we head towards rhe doldrums for a couple of months and then the real work of CL placement begins in earnest. Like watching f...... RBS! Ray Parlour - I love you!

  187. 80's Gooner

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:59 #45452

    Ozil & cannot play in the same team, you either play one or the other. Monreal is a luxury player who you can bring on when you are defending a lead or start him against teams in the lower half of the premiership. The fact that he is the Spanish number one left back counts for nothing. Gibbs & Rosicky must start Wednesday. Ox & Jack were positives today. Arsenal were unsettled today by the two early goals. They were running around like headless chickens after 5 minutes rather than keeping the ball & digging in for 10 minutes. Reminded me a little bit of a league cup tie at home to Man u at Highbury where we conceded early & lost 6.2 we where top of the league at the time & went onto to win it. Injuries & fatigue are beginning to take their toll now (the warning signs were there against saints) but there is something different about the character of this Arsenal team which gives me a warm feeling that we won't see a total collapse over the next 3 games. I just hope he picks a full strength team at home against Liverpool in the cup.

  188. WENGER OUT

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:55 #45451

    This result is just the beginning of the usual February collapse. It comes as no surprise to those of us with a bit of sense. Nothing has changed, it's the same team run by the same useless manager with the same set of tired excuses. Nobody does embarrassing defeats quite like Wenger, how bad does it need to get before he's shown the door? Those scum bags down the road shipped 5 to Liverpool and 6 to City but at least they had the balls to sack AVB - Even if it was a poor decision for them. WENGER OUT!

  189. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:54 #45450

    05.59….0600 and the alarm clock goes off in Bill Murray’s bedroom. However instead of Sonny and Cher singing “ I got you babe” we have the spectacle of Arsene Wenger droning his drone and explaining about another royal thumping in a crucial game because he has not prepared properly for the fixture. P45, P 45, Arsene Wenger, needs his P45.

  190. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:47 #45449

    I think any team would be hard pressed to live with the Scousers start today. We were clueless after the first two goals though and should have tried to get to half-time at 2-0. Ozil was very poor and looks out on his feet. He needs to be taken out of the firing line. Sadly Arteta and Giroud are great grafters and a big asset to the club but they are not first team players in a title winning team. We've done well against the also rans this season but it's getting harder to justify millions in the bank and not on the pitch. Wenger remains tactically inept and how you can give him 8.5 mill a year on the back of his recent record is a joke. How about 5 quid and 15 million if you win something.

  191. Silly Billy

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:47 #45448

    if the reff give us 5 more pens we wuld have won

  192. DW Thomas

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:46 #45447

    Agree with the comments on Wenger's lack of tactics. These overpaid primadonnas looked like they couldn't be bothered today. A dismal display from so called professionals, and Wenger worst of all. Heads should be down. Get to work and beat United. But only talk of trophies when it's won, in our hands. I won't believe till I see that! And let's not zonal mark anymore, that just doesn't work.

  193. Danielgooner

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:35 #45446

    It's been proved again Wenger gets outfought tactically at big games. Same thing happened at Man U, City and now Liverpool. Wenger can only win the small games but when the going gets tough he runs into a brick wall with no ideas. I feel sorry for all the supporters who went there early this morning. Will the club refund the match ticket just like the 8-2 defeat at Man U a couple of seasons ago? They should do!! He doesn't yet deserve a new contract wait till the end of the season.

  194. GoonerGoal!

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:31 #45445

    4-0 after 18 minutes, really? It actually could have been 6-0, but strangely I wasn't at all surprised. The past 9 years under Wenger have taught us that generally each season follows one of two options, either finding ourselves in a genuine Championship winning position in the early part of the year only to collapse in the final 10 weeks of the season, or requiring a late season run in the hope of finishing higher than Spurs in order to and hang on to our infamous 4th place "trophy". Guess which one it is this season! This match proved once again that Wenger hasn't got a clue when it comes to tactical awareness. Was he the only person in the country who couldn't predict that Liverpool were likely to come out with all guns blazing just as they had against Everton? Did he really believe that the team he selected would have the defensive awareness and legs to handle the pace of Liverpool's attack in an open game? Did he really consider Gerrard no threat in the Pirlo "quarter-back" position? You would have thought so, because it seemed no player had responsibility to make sure he rarely received a pass without being under extreme pressure. But I'm guessing those of you who still support Wenger don’t care about any of that, because you seem more than satisfied with what Wenger has given us every season for 9 years…

  195. declan burke

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:27 #45444

    Experienced Arsenal fans recall that championship winners take care of their chief rivals at home and even going to your main rivals place and coming away with the points, remember us winning at places like Anfield, Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge over the years when we went on to become champions, with players who went to these fortresses and bullied the opposition into submission, characters like Adams,Dixon, Winterburn, Bould, Keown, Parlour, Rocky, Smith, Vieira,Petit,Campbell, apart from the obvious class it takes to challenge for the title it is character that makes the difference. Now is the maximum test for this fine arsenal side. Time to stand up and be counted lads ......

  196. craszy gunner

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:25 #45443

    You are right on so many points what asenal have done well this season is beat the small teams consistently but our performance against the top teams is abysmal It doesn't matter who was arsenal signed in the transfer window even if we had messi ronaldo and neymar we would have lost still with a resounding beating if we had an attitude like that But in saying that the truth is Liverpool are an inferior side on paper to the arsenal team if they looked like world beaters its because their manager had seen us and worked hard on how to beat us.. In the end we were outwitted outplayed and outclassed by them because arsene had an inferior game plan and BR was spot on.. Arsene has to seriously look within himself and decide if he still has what it takes to win a title...everton southampton man city and now liverpool...any one noticed the similarities in these games they pressed us high and with cohesion and we did not have an answer.. If I had a league 2 side and employed the same tactic ...I will put money on getting a result against arsenal.. My whole point is it is a tactical problem not one of personnel and only arsene can find the solution or he can kiss any hopes of a title goodbye..

  197. Father_Ted

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:24 #45442

    We were hopeless. There was no fight and a lack of pace all round. It reminded me of the Gooner Forum which is also run by a few dictators that haven't got a clue. The Irish mafia as they are known.

  198. DW Thomas

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:23 #45441

    Total loser's performance today. Kos and Per were brought back down to earth. We miss Flamini and Ramsey 's engine. Evident no Rambo was key to our success.like Arteta but he is past it I think, a liability. Ozil is looking like new Andy Carrollor Torres, too expensive for what he produces. Giroud needs too many good chances to score and had none today. Did you see Suarez's shot off the post? And his free kick? He is amazing! We would be top by 10 points with someone like him! Who do we have? Bendtner! What a joke! We badly, obviously needed a good crafty striker. Who does Wenger buy? A 31 year old crocked defensive midfielder! This team is nearly there, but we lose our spine insome games, and our pride. Coutinho and Sterling were good and we couldn't deal with them on set pieces or through balls by Mertesacker. No one to sub in save Rosicky who needs better strikers to make any difference. Tis game was reminiscent of the 8-2 thrashing at OT. No mettle, no heart. If we don't beat a poor United at home with a great, energetic performance, the season is done, psychologically. Just when I,thought this team had some mental strength, they pull one of these games. What a total facade this season is now looking. And we still have a ton of hard games to play till the end of March! The question that keeps coming back to me is how can Wenger not see we don't have a finished team to really compete? We could have had Hazard too and look what he did today! Cheap pen pinching will never win you anything! Frustrated, angry, disappointed, disillusioned, depressed. Some will say we're still 2nd. I retort, it's the same thing every season. This feels like the first wheel,coming off of anther groundhog season!!!!

  199. Piers Morgan

    Feb 08, 2014, 19:17 #45440

    Real Madrid knew what they were doing getting rid of Freddo the frog,40 million plus,yes they knew alright.So now the arrogant gooners who gob on about title winning,quality team,so much better than any number of other prem teams,oh really .Well now it is our turn to have the poor performances and off days as those we mocked are getting it right at the business end of the season.We are not ****e yet but not long to go.Arsene Wenger is a yes man who papers over the cracks .

  200. Radfordkennedy

    Feb 08, 2014, 18:54 #45439

    I didn't feel confident about this game at all,but didn't expect yet another pasting,i received a text during the game from a pal who said he feared this could be this teams 'stoke away 71',the thing is that team had the heart to fight back,this bunch don't have a toe to toe in them,spineless ,gutless frauds all of them,how many times does this fraud in charge have to be humiliated before he's told to keep his coat on.Arsene you've done wonderful things in the past,but your past it,whatever you had has gone,you and your team are fuc@ing embarrassing in the name of God go

  201. SaulLFC

    Feb 08, 2014, 18:50 #45438

    What a game, Liverpool looked fantastic today. I still hope Arsenal beat the likes of City and Chelsea to the title.

  202. Gunner SA

    Feb 08, 2014, 18:42 #45437

    Kev, Suarez could have scored 4 playing for Arsenal today and the team still would have lost. Why won't Arsene Wenger swallow his pride and ask Martin Keown to help the defence again? Clean sheets away to Real Madrid, Juventus and Villereal rather than six, five and who knows how many conceded at City, Liverpool and Chelsea.

  203. Gooner Pat

    Feb 08, 2014, 18:38 #45436

    Couldn't agree more with everything you've said. We've done really well to be where we are but i've always worried about us against decent oppo. United out fought us early in the season to beat us and we were lucky against everton, liv and city spanked us. Not the pedigree of champions unfortunately