Have we got players we can identify with any more?

The gap between the stars and the fans has become a chasm



Have we got players we can identify with any more?

Charlie – Definitely one of us


Is there a player at our club right now with whom the fans can identify like we could, and indeed did, years ago and who has Arsenal in his blood? I'm one of those old boys, so it might be different and easier for younger fans, but I would say a definite no. It might have been different if we'd been successful and won something over the last six or seven years, with a player or two doing a Mickey Thomas ‘it's up for grabs now’ moment, or players doing something special that would endear us to them like scoring the winner in a final or two, or on the last day of the season scoring to win the League, and indeed some of them might just do that before the season’s out to change my mind.

But there's not one player at the club at the minute that I would be really sad to see leave or shed a tear over. Is there a player now who would shed a tear over leaving, even if he had Arsenal in his blood? Obviously you don't want to see the best players go, but that would be for purely footballing or professional reasons, not sentimental ones like there were years ago.

Take Frank McClintock, Raddy, Big Tone, Wrighty, Dicko, Rocky, The Romford Pele, Bob Wilson (Willow), The Merse, Sammy Nelson, Chippy, for example, and the list goes on, players who have earned their nicknames; and there's Charlie George who stood on the North Bank as a kid and then went on to play for us, who we can still identify with even today and indeed most of the others and are emotionally attached even now. I'm sure a lot of us fans young and old have met a lot of the above legends over time and really taken to them for various reasons. I was walking up the steps to the West Upper at the last NLD at Highbury and happened to look round and there was Charlie coming trudging behind me. I asked him “are you getting it tight Charlie? Not as fit as you used to be” and he replied “too bloody right, mate” or words to that effect, I'll not say what the banter was with other fans, but Charlie took it brilliantly as usual.

I know times have changed, but will fans be doing the same to, and thinking the same of, some of the players we have now in twenty or thirty years’ time? That's if they remain here for any length of time and don't follow the Pound or Euro. Can we see any one of them becoming legends like the ones above?

What about Walcott? Can we really identify with him? The younger fans maybe for his nice boy image and his children's books, but for his football? There's Ramsey - the fans of his old club Cardiff seem to have hijacked the legendary status already. Then there's Wilshere the Great English Hope and injury-prone; can we identify with him? Can we see him as a legend? For his tweeting maybe and his tattoos. Again, his football? He hasn't exactly set the world alight so far. Jenkinson, Gibbs, etc, some of the foreigners? Is it a coincidence that none of the legends mentioned above is a foreigner? Yes, of course we have foreigners we are emotionally involved with like Thierry Henry (Titi or TH), Robert Pires (Bobby), Dennis Bergkamp (DB 10 or God), and Freddie, but can we identify with them like the English legends?

Can we see ourselves being able to identify with, and still be emotionally involved with any of the current players, or the ones we've had over the last eight years in twenty or thirty years’ time the same way we do and are with the past ones mentioned above, and be able to take a hand out of them on the way to the ground or coming up the steps to the upper tier? Unfortunately, old boys like me might not be around to find out.


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58
comments

  1. Moscow Gooner

    Mar 01, 2014, 18:13 #46698

    I think the whole approach to design of the Emirates, whether conscious or not (Wenger driven?) was aimed at emphasising the distance between players and fans: they arrive in a subterranean tunnel, well insulated from the hoi poloi on the streets, and they are physically more distant from the fans when on the pitch than they were at Highbury. And flying to away games for any match outside the M25 ring means that you don't get to see your heroes at mnotorway service stations: I remember cheering the team on and off their coach after the famous 1-0 win over Liverpool in the FA semi at Coventry in 1980. Some of this is the inevitable price of progress - but a lot of it seems to be both unnecessary and deliberate; teaching the fans that they are really extraneous to the club, not part of it. I see today that Bayern are going to convert more of their stadium to standing space - at affordable prices - at the request of the fans. Can you ever imagine Arsenal doing that - or subsidising fans' travel like Bayern (and Stoke) have? The club lost its soul around the time that David Dein and his cronies jumped on board.

  2. BADARSE

    Mar 01, 2014, 14:02 #46682

    Thank you westlower, you are my 24601. Incidentally on a literary note I happen to think Jean Valjean was the greatest of heroes. This from a man raised on Superman comics too! He would have been lionised had it been an English author's work, though perhaps would have been called John Terry or some other irksome name. I see us, look! Over there! 'Old friends, sat on a park bench like book ends...'

  3. Westlower

    Mar 01, 2014, 13:08 #46677

    @Badarse, Your chair has been kept warm for your welcome return: "There's a grief that can't be spoken, as the pain goes on & on, (whenever AFC lose). Empty chairs at empty tables where my friends will sing no more". Let's hope that come May it'll be a case of - "Watch the B*ggers (Gooners) dance".

  4. frankytheswede

    Feb 28, 2014, 15:24 #46606

    is this a joke i think youre contribution to this thread is a joke but you are entitled to youre opinion, i feel sorry that youve never bonded with a player playing for the arsenal, im only 32 years of age and never had the pleasure of watching the old guys who made this club so great, rice samson graham rocastle mclintock brady george etc i grew up watching the likes of adams seaman parlour wrighty pat th14 god, freddy of course was a fav of mine but i do think that maybe highbury played a bit part of the connection between the fans and players the emirates feels like a hospital compared to highbury its so sterile and i dont think all the banners and flags and statues in the world will improve the cold day out tourist attraction feeling i get from the emirates i swear highbury used to almost breathe on those european nights fantastic atmosphere fans from all walks of life it didnt matter along as you supported the arsenal you were cool.

  5. BADARSE

    Feb 28, 2014, 14:33 #46596

    Gentlemen, am overwhelmed by some reactions to my decision. I thought I had outstayed my welcome. I think I have things to tell the young guns still, so maguiresbridge, 'I'll be back!' Putting the record straight the failings are with me. I am not good at this posting malarkey and get irritated by griping/negativity. Seems I need a better filter. I also only seem to have two controls, 'Stop or go' so that can have effects also. Nobody was in any way responsible, just my inability to deal with what came at me. @jeff, you made me smile. @Chris, sharp as a knife. @SGRB always reads things so well. Shall thank others anon. As for you 24601 I had my farewell prepared, a shame to waste it: 'The summers die, one by one. How soon they fly, on and on-and I am old, and will be gone.' Then you had to mention my flatulence! Still, was pleased it saw you airborne. I am humbled.

  6. Silly Billy

    Feb 28, 2014, 13:05 #46589

    is this a joke , coz ur only 12 u dont know any better

  7. Ron

    Feb 28, 2014, 12:59 #46588

    is this a joke - Any true and sensible supporter could contribute to this thread. Age isnt a factor. Perhaps your real problem is that youre not too well clued up on players of yesteryear and the Clubs history. What does your inane post to the thread? I suggest little to nothing other than it shows your ignorance. Your not alone though. There are a few of you about these days. The original poster is one who posts often and sensibly. Perhaps you might do one day, but not by your waste of an effort this time fella.

  8. Amos

    Feb 28, 2014, 12:50 #46587

    It's true that the supporters loyalty is, or should be, to the club but the players loyalty is also owed to the club and not to supporters. However, not all of those same supporters will necessarily want to club, in return, to show loyalty to players if those players don't meet their individual standards - even if the club itself is loyal to the player... that's to say will accept periods of indifferent form while developing .... recovering from injury.....settling into the club....or merely filling a space in the squad into they can get someone better.

  9. is this a joke?

    Feb 28, 2014, 12:45 #46586

    this is an awful article that only people only 40 can enjoy due to getting sentimental about 'the good old days'....absolute rubbish...

  10. jeff wright

    Feb 28, 2014, 12:33 #46585

    If the rumours that Wenger will resign Persie prove to be true how will those morons who have been chanting rapist at him react when he reappears in our shirt again? I suppose they could always make a joke out of it all and sing 'he changes clubs when he wants'.

  11. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Feb 28, 2014, 12:27 #46584

    The loyalty of the fans is to the club, not to any individual working within in. Unconditional support for an employee or owner is foolish. Of course loyalty to a player is conditional; it has to be earned, as the likes of McLintock and Adams earned it. Of course fans are not going to be 'loyal', e.g believe the club should keep on paying ad infinitum players who don't perform or are always injured.

  12. Mark

    Feb 28, 2014, 11:59 #46583

    I would not lose any sleep over any departures these days. You only have to look at RVP going to Manure to sum it all up. There is little in the way of loyalty, only the fans are loyal !!!!!!!!!

  13. Ozzie

    Feb 28, 2014, 11:14 #46582

    I am new to this forum having discovered it by chance & must say I am really impressed by the intelligent comments & the way some fans share their intimate feelings/thoughts openly. Great reading fellas!

  14. Amos

    Feb 28, 2014, 10:16 #46581

    As supporters we love to identify with those players who show loyalty and commitment to the club - but only for as long as we value them. Our mentality as supporters is that the player owes undying loyalty to the club but it is a one sided loyalty. These and other forums are forever listing players we should get rid of, deadwood as we might describe them, and young players who 'won't make the grade'. So the average supporters loyalty to players is only for as long as that player is performing. A poor run of form, a bad month, a bad game even, protracted injuries perhaps and that player will be put on some supporters exit list. Maybe we shouldn't find it so surprising that, in the modern game, many players don't find it any easier to identify with a particular club than some supporters can identify with a player given that individual support for a player can be just as transient as the player.

  15. dirkus

    Feb 28, 2014, 9:58 #46580

    Agree with SLJ, when will a true Arsenal gent and legend be honoured. Never has a bad thing to say unlike some former players. I try to be positive but get frustrated sometimes. Since I first supported The Arsenal in the late 60s we have always had a habit of breaking up winning sides too quickly. Legends discarded by the club and replaced by inferior players. I think if the little mozart hadn't been injured he would have been remembered as a true Arsenal great.

  16. Arsemart

    Feb 28, 2014, 9:31 #46579

    An interesting article. Nick Hornby wrote in Fever Pitch that football is useful because it can fill the gaps in your life, if you let it. When I was younger, it was school and football, then when I left school it was out boozing and football. The fire burned brightly for me at that time and I loved the team and players unreservedly. Then I got married, and now I have 3 children - That changed my priorities and football had to take a seat further back (although never a back seat....). I think that my relationship with the team and players changed and I now see things in a more open way. I appreciate (some) other teams and players, whereas if I was the way I was 20(!) odd years ago I'd be arguing Carl Jenkinson is the 2nd best right back in the league. Trophies make a difference as well. I started going when George took over, and still have a strong affection for the late 80s, early 90s team. But I also love the early Wenger sides. Do I have the same feeling for the later GG and AW teams? No not really. Sorry to ramble on, this seems to have turned into a lament for my lost youth but that's how it's changed for me. Interested to read that for some younger people social media makes them feel closer to the team, and they probably do have more interaction with the players than I ever did. One other point, Charlie George seriously considered joining Spurs when he left Arsenal, but they didn't come in for him. Even for the greats, it's just a job.

  17. Ozzie

    Feb 28, 2014, 5:38 #46576

    Today's crop of players are light years from the "clubmen" we have known in past decades and this is why I lack the same enthusiasm I once held. The selling of gun players to the enemy was the final kick in the guts after some bored megalomaniac's wealth "buying" trophies for the last umpteen years. All those millionaire trophy hunters who've left the club are living proof of the footballer's paradigm barring exceptions.

  18. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Feb 28, 2014, 4:50 #46574

    Footballers are mercenaries and they have to be. That doesn't mean that they don't grow an affection for the club and the fans. I do think that this crop of players do care, because of course they have the adversity of trying to win despite OGL's screw ups on failure to reinforce, tactical blindness and selection madness amongst many others. We as fans are trying to survive Wenger and his klingons on the board and elsewhere. It was easier to have some affection for ( and connection with) the players in years gone by. I did my training contract in Crouch End (indeed I chose that contract because of its proximity to Arsenal)and was able to watch the reserves, which included Tony Adams and David Rocastle amongst others, at Highbury. The crowd came in very cheaply, if not for free ( memory fading!) and one saw the young players coming through. That doesn't happen any more. You can't turn the clock back, but I certainly have affection and regard for the players that try hard for the club, and I hope for the return of some players whether at the end of their playing careers or as coaches. I believe that several of the great side of the early 2000's have tried to get back to clear up the mess that OGL has created. Some of them have succeeded which is why we are still in the league in March rather than 18 points adrift.

  19. Cockney Gooner in NYC

    Feb 28, 2014, 1:57 #46573

    Don't go BADARSE. Won't be the same anymore without your comments. Loyal fans are needed on here! Watched replay of when we beat the Spuds in 87 League Cup semi. I was there, great memories.

  20. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 28, 2014, 0:36 #46572

    Thanks to everyone who took the time to read and comment it was appreciated. Hopefully your only teasing BADARSE and by tomorrow you'll have done an Arnie. And hopefully one of the current crop have ended up doing a Mickey T come the end of the season, but i still can't imagine it being as good as 89.

  21. frankytheswede

    Feb 27, 2014, 23:49 #46571

    i just have to add that looking at the boys at the mo i do have a soft spot for gibbs and rambo. im so happy for ramsey after what hes been through and we miss him alot, similar with gibbs so many injurys but he always puts a shift in and im glad to see the boy playing so well.

  22. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 27, 2014, 23:36 #46570

    Can only agree with the main thread of this well written article. None of these players really care for the club, and if any of them wanted to leave, I would personally drive them to the airport. People mention previous legends like Frank and George, rest assured the current manager, board and owner would never tolerate such strong voices. On another note, looks like arsenal will be yet again London's failures in Europe. A sad indictment of a manager who pledged to dominate Europe. I fear for wenger when the rivals recruit Van Gaal, let's face it, wenger will come off worst against Brendan Rogers this season,how will he deal with this Dutch dude next season.

  23. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2014, 22:38 #46569

    I was hoping to see some improvement against the top sides Chris that would allow us to actually win something after 9 years . So far I have not seen any sign of this so until I do I will giver your calendar year , and we are only one point off the top , albeit we have had an easier run of fixtures than we now face until May ,optimism a swerve. A win at Stoke would be a good start - and something to build on. I don't rule this out actually against old sparky's neanderthals. That defeat away though to Moyes stuttering low on belief and ideas United and the 0-0 home draw against the strugglers puts a question mark over our boys in my mind though who again still blow the chance to take the this title season by the scruff of its neck when the pressure is on them to do so. Sorry old chap but it still all looks all too familiar a scenario that we have seen so often before. If blind optimistic faith in Arsene won trophies then we would have a cabinet full of them instead of just mythical 4th place ones and calendar year titles. I like your logic on the calendar year results in that it ignores the reality that amid those results we finished a distant 4th behind last seasons actually season title winners,and where are they this year? We know the answer and yet they, despite displaying all the bottle of Ozil taking a spot kick in their games still managed to take 4 points off us. There is no excuse that I can see to for this . So as I say I'm remaining pessimistic about us winning the Prem but optimistic that we will again finish in the top 4. If that is being negative then I plead guilty as charged . A top 4 place looks to me to be the club's ambition anyway after the failure to strengthen our squad was passed over in January taking account also here of our injury problems ,we have already seen that Walcott is missed. Giroud is slow and misses too many chances. Higuain looked sharp and scored a good goal fore Napoli tonight v Swansea . Wenger should have signed him and and got shut of big dense Bendy, who is another living example of why so many supporters and disenchanted with football players - the guy is a complete plonker. 50k a week,Wenger can not be serious! I just added that bit of Arsene bashing to show that I'm not that AKB imposter who posts on here here using others names ,some mothers do have 'em.

  24. Mark from Aylesbury

    Feb 27, 2014, 21:56 #46568

    Have to add that I feel these discussion threads were degenerating into random conversations regarding long dead music groups and cod philosophy. Better to get back to the football albeit pro and anti Wenger rants.

  25. Chris

    Feb 27, 2014, 21:37 #46567

    SGRB - As far as I'm concerned, it was an absolute necessity that folk went on there and put forward different views, (although that doesn't mean that I ascribe much importance to either us doing so or to the views that were being opposed). I'm not surprised you don't agree but there we go. In retrospect, it was probably misguided of me because it gave the natives something to get their teeth into - the fact the site owner kept letting me back suggested he too felt there was some benefit in having a whipping boy or two.... And at times, even I admit it was entertaining there.

  26. Chris

    Feb 27, 2014, 21:26 #46566

    Jeff dude, all I've said is it doesn't beggar belief to think we might do it. We might not of course but I find a little optimism makes life more fun. You talk as if all our hopes and dreams have been smasjed to smithereens this season ("we were hoping for more last summer than deja vu the last 9 seasons"). If you were really hoping for more than being 1 point off the lead with 11 games to go, you must have a well-hidden optimistic side to your personality because I can't see where those greater expectations would have been coming from!

  27. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Feb 27, 2014, 21:20 #46564

    Chris, you overstate the importance of your role by calling it 'much needed'. If you're not aware, then have a look around - most AFC sites provide more than enough 'balance' to the site in question.

  28. GoonerBadger

    Feb 27, 2014, 21:18 #46563

    Good post MG. I have thought that for a while now. Unfortunately with all the money sloshing around in the premiership, all the players are just hired guns, so it doesn't pay to get too attached to any of them. All will kiss the badge at some stage then clear off once someone waves more money under their noses. It's disappointing when you have a really good player that turns his back on the club a la the Dutch skunk, but that's what it is these days. The club itself doesn't give a stuff about the fans either, loyalty is a one way street with the fans unfortunately. Still could be worse I suppose, we could consider ourselves the biggest club in the world and yet be mugged off twice be a fat granny shagger!

  29. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2014, 21:16 #46562

    It says more about your unrealistic views Chris by again using your calendar year to support them, than by alleged negative ones on my part . As any form student will tell you it's recent form that counts and not last year's. We don't have more points on the board than Chelsea and probably only have 2 more than City because they have played a game less than us. Your predictions on why we will get more points than those other pair are based on optimism and your calendar year results. It's possible that we might do so but what happened last season will not play any part in that. And to do so we will have to raise the ante on our recent form at a time when we are going into our most difficult period of the season.

  30. Chris

    Feb 27, 2014, 21:06 #46561

    SGRB - I think either I didn't make myself clear or you have deliberately misunderstood me to pick something to argue about. The absence of opposing views on that site created the void that I (and a few others) attempted to fill - how is that 'overstating the importance of my role'? And for what it's worth - I wouldn't have known what was on most other Arsenal websites because I only ever went there, here and to ANR at the time (I now visit Arseblog for a bit of light relief occasionally too) - and as I've previously alluded to, here wasn't that much different at the time...

  31. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Feb 27, 2014, 20:49 #46560

    Chris, you overstate the importance of your role - it's that site itself that fills a much needed void, not someone going on there with the perspective found on nearly all the other AFC fansites.

  32. frankytheswede

    Feb 27, 2014, 20:36 #46559

    mmm players i can identify with. lol the days of the local boy coming good are over i think now its all silly haircuts tatoos blackmailing the clubs for more money and playing with the fans emotions by kissing the badge. its the way the game has gone now i think abit of the magic has been lost along the way i dont know if that is a nostalgia thing but i have alot more affection for the old guys. my general feeling towards the current crop are that i will support them because of the club they play for. and i dont think its got to do with success but a few cup finals would probpably help me develop more of a relationship. but who on this planet can relate to a player like bendtner.

  33. Chris

    Feb 27, 2014, 19:59 #46558

    Jeff _ Guess it depends what you mean by 'considerably more' points. We're 14 points behind last season's total with 33 still to play for - let's wait and see what's unrealistic shall we? I take your point about recent form not having been great but all teams have blips and we've just had one - Chelski and Citeh haven't been pulling up trees of late either. We've got more points form the last 38 games than anyone else so it doesn't exactly beggar belief to think we might do the same over the next 11 - I think it says alot for your peculiarly negative outlook if you believe it does.

  34. Chris

    Feb 27, 2014, 19:43 #46557

    SGRB - I never went there 'to have an argument ' - I went there to fill a much-needed void there! The arguments were simply an inevitable consequence of that. My point is that this sort of thing happens all the time - just like on here when, about a year ago, I would post unpopular views and you, Theo Jensen, Green hut and one or two others would harry me as if in formation. I didn't start crying then either, did I? And for what its' worth, I don't see Jeff crying now...

  35. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Feb 27, 2014, 19:38 #46556

    There's a big difference, Chris. I'm referring to what you used to do on 'that other site' which definitely isn't a broad church (and fills a much needed online void. And after also using the term 'ganging up', introducing the term 'cyber-bullying' yourself in order to call my point 'quaint' is rather ironic.

  36. Chris

    Feb 27, 2014, 19:25 #46555

    SGRB - ..and Jeff has deliberately done the same amongst the 'broad church' community that is onlinegooner. There's no difference - groups of folk with similar views will end up confronting those who they take umbrage with for one reason or another. The idea that you seem to equate that in Jeff's case almost with cyber-bullying is quite quaint.

  37. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2014, 19:23 #46554

    Well for starters Chris I think it's unrealistic to expect us to get considerably more points than we did last season, judging by our recent form . Perhaps more points would be a more realistic view. I have had to revise my own views on this because I was expecting more points from Southampton - Liverpool - United games that we recently played - than what we got last season. Last season we won 5 points from those same games played same venues ,this season we only won 2 points from them. In fact that is a trend for the games we play against last seasons experienced opposition - and with the just one game left, Hull away, from this seasons rookies if the trend to do less better or the same ,against last terms sides continues, then we will not considerably better last seasons final points total that won us 4th place. For us to win the league others must fail ,,especially Chelsea who have only to match our results and who have a better G/D to finish ahead of us . City 2 points adrift of us have a game in hand so we have to beat them as most likely they will win their game in hand at home. Realistically I see us needing now to take Liverpool’s threat more seriously , because as I said before 4th place with the World Cup impacting on pre-season games is something that we need to avoid this season, to avoid the qualifier tie that we will have to play. In the end it may well come down to us and Liverpool fighting it out for 3rd spot. Looking on the bright side of things this is better than scrubbing away for a Europey Cup place ,but we were hoping for more last summer than deja vu the last 9 seasons. The FAC will not be easy to win but Wenger should give it his best shot. I suspect though that he will be aiming that at Pep's jaw.

  38. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Feb 27, 2014, 19:17 #46553

    Chris, in the 'not too distant past' you have very consciously and deliberately placed yourself amongst a group of commentators you disagree with in order to have an argument. That's not being 'ganged up on', you wanted to be in that position. It's quite different from someone simply airing their views and then more and more people joining in an attack. And Badarse wasn't attacked for his views, some took umbrage to what they saw as being patronised or lectured, unfortunately.

  39. Green Hut

    Feb 27, 2014, 18:57 #46552

    Not really maguiresbridge, but re the Charlie George North Bank thing I always find myself being a little more tolerant of Carl Jenkinson than his recent form sometimes deserves due to the fact that he is a lifelong Arsenal fan. True Gunner Jimmy Carter's contribution to the cause didn't live long in the memory but I do remember him scoring his first goal for the club and he went down on his knees in front of the East Stand in thanks for a dream made true. The much under-rated Stevie Williams was also one of us, a bond cemented when cameras got a lovely close up of him ordering the cheat Ardiles to 'f**k off!' live on TV. Of the foreigners, certainly believe we could identify with Pat Vieira's English-style grit and determination, and of the current crop I could see our BFG Mertesacker becoming a cult hero if we manage to hold our nerve and snatch the big prize. He's invariably last man off the pitch (at least at home) and always seems to appreciate the fans support, even if it means slagging off his mate Ozil a la Man City! All the players you mentioned won stuff with the club, I guess that's what we need now.

  40. Chris

    Feb 27, 2014, 18:50 #46551

    Jeff - Yes I know that is your view, it's been well-aired. I'm not sure what you mean by 'dreaming up points totals to claim we can win the league' - I don't think I've done that have I? I've suggested we should end up with considerably more points than last year (for what that's worth) but that's it - so again you misquote.... For what it's worth - I think we could finish anywhere between 1st and 4th. If we get more points than other teams in the last 11 games, we'll probably end up first - but that's a very big if. What's not realistic about that?

  41. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2014, 18:39 #46550

    Regarding negativity Chris it's my view that supporters like yourself who put up with the lack of ambition shown by Wenger and the owner are the real negatives. My view is that our squad is not strong enough to win the Prem and that was my one before the injury to Walcott . I expect at least a 4th place finish though and hopefully a FAC win to go with the top 4 place . I call this being realistic. You dreaming up points totals to claim that we can win the league , that makes them ever more unlikely to be achieved, after poor results such as we have had since November, is in my view just being unrealistic.

  42. Chris

    Feb 27, 2014, 18:38 #46549

    SGRB - Yes I agree, and I what I said is entirely consistent with that - that those(amongst the broad church) who would want him to tow the(their) anti-Wenger line had more than once insutled him. As for Jeff - I don't think the intention was to make him shut up (how could anyone?) but rather to point out where he has spouted factually inaccurate nonsense or tried to pass off his interpretation as 'fact'. I can't speak for anyone else but that's my issue with him, not his general viewpoint, which he's perfectly entitled to and generally gives in an otherwise fairly agreeable and entertaining fashion. I would remind you, too, that you have not been averse to ganging up in a far worse fashion yourself in the not too distant past (unless of course others use your pseudonym) so maybe you should look at yourself before throwing those particular stones. And Jeff - no, I don't think you caused BADARSE to leave either, I was taking issue with Ron's suggestion about the 'turkeys' as he seemed to be implying that BA might be leaving because of them.

  43. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2014, 18:02 #46548

    Chris, I doubt that my comments would drive anyone off here I don't even post anything some weeks. you really are a bit of a drama queen.

  44. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Feb 27, 2014, 17:59 #46547

    Chris, this notion that there is an 'anti-Wenger line' on the Gooner is a myth. Look back through the articles and comments, there's just as much pro-Wenger stuff. The truth is it's a broad church - which perhaps makes it seem anti-Wenger in comparison to the overwhelming majority of sites, who won't hear a word against the manager. I too am sorry to see Badarse go - it seems to me there was sometimes a disjunct between his intent (e.g. to dispense helpful advice) and how it was received (e.g. as sermonising). As for Jeff being 'negative', I found a far more negative sight the ganging up that several of you did in order to try and shut him up the last couple of days. You failed, though.

  45. radfordkennedy

    Feb 27, 2014, 17:33 #46546

    As most have already said maguires its no mate, youve more chance of getting into the Arsenal team coming from Lorient than Leyton Orient ,and would have probably been brought up the Barca way rather than Holloway,its all about connections isnt it,that feeling of all being in it together a mutual camaraderie .I know ive mentioned it before but it makes the point perfectly i posted a while ago that i have never heard an explosion of noise in a football ground as that moment when Eddie Kelly scored against Anderlecht,and the ensuing bedlam after my hero Raddy scored,Grown men shed a tear that night when Frank lifted that night and there was a feeling they,d done it for us a bond was forged that night ,i dont know if the emirates will ever see a night like that,but i hope so for this generations sake. Badarse sorry that you may not post anymore ive enjoyed the chats from Georges Eastham to Harrison and i hope you get to raise a glass of you favourite red come May

  46. SLJ

    Feb 27, 2014, 16:42 #46544

    When is Frank McLintocks statue gunna be sorted out ? Long overdue

  47. Chris

    Feb 27, 2014, 16:40 #46543

    What a shame Badarse has decided not to post anymore! I can, however, understand his decision as he has been unjustly insulted more than once because of his views that don't tow the anti-Wenger line and for not being afraid to tell others that their negativity is unwarranted. And Ron - from what I've read of Badarse's comments (eg 49230) it seems me to me that Jeff's negativity is far more likely to have contributed to Badarse's decision than people taking up Jeff on what he comes up with.

  48. Westlower

    Feb 27, 2014, 15:56 #46542

    "Badarse came from somewhere (North Bank & Westlower)in his long ago. What a fool believes, he sees. The wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be is always better than nothing". Words of Michael McDonald (Doobies). Badarse, a big thanks for always being the wind beneath this particular posters wings & be sure to rejoin us in May for the knees up! Let's hope we're all singing 'Hot Stuff', "Gonna see the Arsenal playing some hot stuff. You'd better believe we've done it again. Come on the Arsenal."

  49. jjetplane

    Feb 27, 2014, 15:42 #46541

    Nice one MG and it has me thinking of those players that 'did it for you'. Pires to me was as Arsenal as you get and personally my all-time favourite and hes a Frenchman! But one guy from that period who stood out for me was Lauren. Just read that he was also a keen boxer so maybe we could do with a boxing school at 'The Emirates' and let Ozil loose on JW in the ring! Thinking of Pires, my money is on Ozil to slap Jack down. Could be the way to turn these into the 'new invincibles'. Harder for us old ens to appreciate how the game has moved to a multi-media spectacle though I am sure we can still find some football in amongst the me circus. Going with Westie to when he mentions someone like Zelalem who has settled on the radar already and am hoping he could become an Arsenal legend. So far I have been mentioning foreigners but of course two of my heroes are Parlour (worst hairstyle) and Jon Samuels (best hair style). Mentioning Samuels there just shows that image was as happening in the 60s as it is now and of course the CG look was the look of any cheeky chappie the lenght and breath of Holloway and all roads to. I guess in years to come when the Emirates is reclaimed by the Thames they will be giving it the ultra-retro and all walking around with exceptional mod-tops. The new stadium will have to be on Hampstead Heath. There it is - image, image, image like your favourite bands. If you there you will remember. One day Zelalem will be doing a Tony Adams ala Everton and people will compare. Anyway - Ryman cup on Saturday and Drogba - better next time! Badarse - you cannot give up now and Jeff Wright and Ron - thanks for the battles. Come on Ozil - cheer the buggers up and make old man Pires happy.

  50. Hibeegunner

    Feb 27, 2014, 15:08 #46540

    Badarse Sorry to see you go I don't comment very much but I love to read your replies to the articles written also your little banter with Ron & Co. Good luck to you. My favourite players from the past Wilson McLintock & Graham all of whom I had the pleasure to meet on several occasions to gents.

  51. chris dee

    Feb 27, 2014, 14:20 #46538

    Thanks for the memories.It must be an age thing.I started to lose 'connection' as I got older.In the sixties as I was watching the games I felt I was fighting the same battles at Highbury as Frankie,John Radford,Georgie Armstrong,Peter Storey,Charlie,Pat Rice,Peter Simpson were on the pitch. But the older you get real life kicks in,life,a job, girls, cars gets in the way of the way of the really important thing,football. But I agree that the disparity of the the fortunes that players are earning today and us 'ordinary' fans has severed any emotional ties we might have with them.

  52. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2014, 13:17 #46536

    There is an obvious lack of empathy between supporters and players through out the game now days everywhere. A striking comment by an hotel porter who gave evidence yesterday in the rape case at Newcastle Crown Court against the ex-Newcastle player Nile Ranger illustrates one of the reasons why this is . He said of Ranger : “ He was his normal footballer cocky arrogant self.”. Unfortunately this applies to a lot of these present day footballers, as anyone who has come across them socially will know. All of them are obviously not like that , but for a small group of men they do seem to have more than their fair-share of arrogant not that bright types. Most sane folk would rather avoids these oafs than socialize with them . Supporters at the Emirates have also had to contend with see players that they sing songs about being sold to rival clubs , this has caused problems for years going back to the Mourinho - Colegate affair when the previous regime failed to stand-up to Mourinho’s shenanigans and sold Cashley to him .

  53. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 27, 2014, 13:17 #46535

    I'm no convert or even an adherent to Twitter, but my daughter tells me that it brings the fans closer to the idol. Kind of like getting your own message from them. Maybe the new generation feel the same about players. For me the last player I felt anything for in that respect was Ray Parlour, who I always considered was representing the fans on the pitch. A real trier and scored some memorable goals for us too.

  54. ApolloGooner

    Feb 27, 2014, 12:54 #46534

    A very well written article and the answer to the question for me is a definite no! There is not one player playing for us today who I have any genuine affection for. Naturally I like some players more than others. Sagna and Metersacker are made of the right stuff but the whole feeling of following Arsenal has changed for me … and not for the better. I follow now out of a sense of duty but I don't like the club very much anymore if I am honest. The club as they are now … I struggle to like what they stand for. And that effects how I see the players. Add in the fact that it’s virtually impossible to identify with multi-millionaire sportsman (some more than half your age depending how old you are) and the whole thing feels detached from reality. I have felt detached from the club ever since we left Highbury. More changed when we left than just the stadium we play in. For me Arsenal have lost their identity and I can’t help but put a lot of the blame on Wenger for that because he has deliberately changed things about the club to suit his philosophy. I cannot forgive him for that. Modern football is also to blame though not just Wenger. The game sold its soul years ago and with each passing year another piece of what made the game so great is chipped away. And as Maguiresbridge Gooner says, I cannot imagine in years to come any of the current players getting a reception like Bergkamp got last Saturday or Pires when he returned with Villareal. There was a warmth in the reception they got and that warmth is also there with the likes of Bob Wilson, Charlie George and many other players from the past. I wanted those guys to do well, not just for the club, but because I really liked them. In contrast, even if this current side wins the league or the FA Cup, I just can’t see myself warming to any of them in the same way.

  55. Westlower

    Feb 27, 2014, 12:48 #46533

    MG, I have too many AFC heroes to list, starting with Derek Tapscott, Danny Clapton & Joe Haverty back in the late 50's, early 60's. Truth be told, any player wearing an Arsenal shirt is OK in my book. I've always taken special interest in any kid making his debut. Such a thrill to see a youngster hold his own against the big boys. Early on it was Radford & Kennedy, Armstrong, Kelly, Sammels, Simpson, Storey, Rice, through to Brady & Rix, Merson. Remember making a 150 mile round trip to watch Anelka make his debut for the reserves, never seen that much talent in any youngster before or since. He just walked into a Championship winning first team. Replace Wrighty? No problem! Today I have a special relationship with Gnabry, Zelalem, Sanogo and anyone criticising these kids will have to get past me first.

  56. Ron

    Feb 27, 2014, 12:23 #46532

    Good luck BADARSE and its been a pleasure posting with you old buddy. I think a few of us are taking our leave now to differing extents, largely due to a few of these turkey types on here now, such as those who who spent a full thread and a day just recently attacking old Jeff, the other day. Be sure to say bye to Westie though fella!!

  57. BADARSE

    Feb 27, 2014, 12:13 #46530

    Thank you maguiresbridge. I had decided not to post again but wanted to just say 'well done' to you buddy. A spirited effort and enjoyable to get those old grey matter cells firing. No, is the answer to your question, or so I believe. The world has moved on and there is no rewind button. Enjoy what we have, whilst we have it. Good luck chum.

  58. Ron

    Feb 27, 2014, 12:10 #46528

    Hi MG - Youve raised a great question thats for each as an individual to ponder and as you say the generation of fan will see it differently. For me, like you, im not bothered who leaves now and have been that way for years. Its slightly different if its a player whos won an honour with us i suppose but not by much and the present crop dont apply anyway. Its a game where the players are in and gone in very short terms now and for kids they miss out on the hero thing. Im still getting over Joe Baker leaving in 1966!! These new stadiums are a reflection of what footballs become taking your point of meeting CG. Now theyre all closed in and shielded from fans. I can understand why in some regards, but as a kid i met a few of the players for autographs etc etc and it was great and re inforced the identity thing you mention. As we get older it doesnt matter though does it. These Clubs are nt fan orientated now. They never were greatly, but its non existent now. You have to think as well that these foreign imports are just here for a job too. I dont expect any affinity for the Club from them, though a few try and we ve had a few who do ingrain themselves with Arsenals culture havent we, but theres so few British players playing now and not many that are worthy of any respect or identity with anyway.The less local and national players there are means less 'identity' with the fans, for me anyway. The identity thing used to be borne of great matches and real battles long remembered. How many games are 'epics' now? How many times do you see a player do things that will remain lonng in the memory?Most of these games today are so sterile and the players after 90 mins look as though theyve exerted the energy that i do when i pop the dog round the block! So many variables create identity mate and i reckon the ingredients disappeared years ago. Its each to their own though isnt it. Good post.