Two wins in six games

Online Ed - Arsenal’s title challenge takes a further blow at the Britannia



Two wins in six games


With Arsenal still to play Chelsea and Manchester City, and those two sides to visit Anfield, on paper the Gunners’ title chances are still alive and well in spite of the defeat at Stoke. It is a venue where the other top sides have failed to take maximum points, so in isolation coming away defeated was no disgrace.

However, the feeling before the game was that Arsenal needed to win at the Britannia because there is not much faith that they can take six points from the games against Chelsea and Manchester City. The truth of this woeful performance from the Gunners is that it is difficult to see them having the creative wherewithal to overcome either of these sides.

Yesterday, Arsenal lacked quality in the final third. Too many bad passes led to a lack of good chances. In the end Arsene Wenger switched to a 4-4-2 with Sanogo joining Giroud up front, but the young man showed why he is not going to make the difference that leads Arsenal to a title with a howler of a miss when he was presented with a very decent opportunity to score near the death of the game. As for Giroud himself, after two goals last weekend, he never looked like scoring against Stoke. I think there is some stat about the player only scoring once outside of London, although I won’t vouch for what may have happened in his pre-match hotel.

However, on quality of the chances created, Stoke deserved this win, even if the penalty was fortuitous. They wanted it more, and showed greater appetite for the battle. Poor refereeing meant they were allowed to go over the top and retain eleven players on the field. There is little doubt both Charlie Adam and Glen Whelan should have got reds for stamping on Olivier Giroud. However, long before Stoke got cynical, the visitors looked like they were not interested in the fight. It reminded one a little of visits to Bolton where Arsenal teams often came unstuck, and this has now become something of a habit at Stoke. So much for the idea of this group of players as a more spirited bunch. The absence of Mathieu Flamini was probably significant. He would have offered more than the milder mannered Arteta did alongside Wilshere in the middle, certainly in terms of matching Stoke for attitude.

Liverpool have now moved into second place whilst Manchester City are two points behind, having played two matches less. There is a feeling that Arsenal are gradually slipping out of contention and the run of four make or break league matches has not even started. Certainly, if they can beat Spurs, Chelsea, Manchester City and Everton then the mood will change, but only the most optimistic of fans is going to believe that is likely given that they have managed only two victories (at home v relegation threatened opposition) in their last six league fixtures.

Mesut Ozil was not started, which made sense. Despite a very poor first half, Arsenal should have scored when Cazorla burst through the middle and had Podolski in space on his left in the area. He chose to shoot and hit it at Begovic in the Stoke goal. Tomas Rosicky at least showed some battling qualities to get himself a yellow card for the kind of challenge more typical of the home side. Generally though, the visitors lacked width, and their poor passing meant they were not going to achieve much going through the middle. They simply did not know how to handle this game, and seemed devoid of any real drive or inspiration.

Ozil finally entered in the second half and had one decent attempt. Oxlade-Chamberlain also came on and added an extra dimension to Arsenal’s game with his pace, making you wonder why he did not start. Sanogo was the last throw of the dice and unfortunately, the gamble on a raw unproven youngster exposed the thinness of Arsenal’s options in an area every man and his dog knew needed addressing back last summer.

With hindsight, it is clear the club should have spent the £55 million that would probably have secured Luis Suarez rather than buy Mesut Ozil. They have enough options in Ozil’s position, too few at centre forward. Suarez has shown he can be devastating as a wide attacker as well. So, events have revealed the manager got that one wrong, in spite of the initial joy of him splashing £42 million on a superstar. Sadly, a superstar who might never adapt to the rigours of the Premier League by the looks of things.

Where do Arsenal go from here? In truth it looks like the Premier League will come down to whether or not they can finish third or fourth (and avoid a qualifying game), although this assumes there is not a complete collapse which gives Spurs any encouragement. The FA Cup seems their best bet of finally ending the long years without a trophy, and should be the priority now, because they only need to win three matches to lift the cup and two of those will be on neutral territory. The Champions League is over for this season unless you believe in the fairies.

The manager has still not signed his contract yet, and as long as that remains the case, the idea of him hopping over to PSG to replace Laurent Blanc on his one year deal cannot be 100% ruled out. Many would welcome a change.

One thing I noted about the game yesterday is that, watching it, I did not feel the desperation for Arsenal to win that I would have in seasons past. I was fairly philosophical about it. The players did not look particularly interested, so why should I? By the time of the Stoke goal, I just felt a sense of resignation. I was prepared to hold off the feeling that a springtime collapse was inevitable, even if I had seen it more than once in recent campaigns when Arsenal have been well and truly in the mix as February turns to March. But after yesterday’s game, there seems a sense of the inevitable now. The team seem to have run out of juice. Yes, they were unfortunate with some questionable refereeing, but that should not have prevented them being able to come up with football to outwit a Stoke team based on physicality and desire, at least if they had the stuff of champions.

Winning the title is about meeting challenges at the key times. March onwards is pretty key. Even in last season’s excellent run-in, Arsenal failed to defeat either Manchester United or Everton at home. It seems that when push comes to shove, Arsene Wenger cannot send a team out to win the difficult matches. That they can win enough of the easier ones has retained their annual qualification for the Champions League, but there is something of a glass ceiling about the club’s achievements these days, away from the financial reporting. Change is needed, a fresh approach, if silverware is regarded as important in the club’s ambitions. However, if Arsenal can win their next four league matches, I will happily eat my words.

Here is a recent form guide for the top four teams, with the number of points taken from the last 6 games played:
Chelsea – 14
Liverpool – 16
Arsenal – 8
Manchester City – 13

It would not be true to say I have lost faith in Arsenal’s title challenge, because I never truly believed. However, up until yesterday, I was at least prepared to be converted, and would listen to an argument that it could be done is spite of my own reservations – that the squad was not deep enough in certain areas and that the manager did not have the tactical nous to win key matches against the principal rivals.

Maybe there are some optimists still out there. As I said at the outset of this piece, on paper, Arsenal are still very much in it. However, form is key, and that of the Gunners has gone to pot. They need a run-in even better than last season’s, where they took 26 points from their last 10 matches. Unfortunately, the opposition they must face to do that is much stiffer. Win every game and they would have 89 points. There is still plenty to play for, but I just can’t see where the inspiration is going to come from after the malaise I witnessed yesterday, because there is an all-too familiar feeling about this time of the year.

The team look weary and that is exactly how this Gooner feels today.

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  1. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 06, 2014, 23:36 #47126

    You know the season isn't going so well anymore when the old 'constraints' arguments are being wheeled out. Old players in the media, Chris on Online Gooner... it's all a bit too familiar, isn't it.

  2. Chris

    Mar 06, 2014, 17:23 #47099

    We've had this conversation lots of times before - there are just as many quotes to back up the view that there isn't any money. Somewhere along the line, we've been fed mistruths, and I certainly don't think we can assume that it wasn't those who had most to gain from lying that were telling the truth!

  3. Green Hut

    Mar 06, 2014, 17:18 #47098

    Chris- But the board don't 'suggest' anything, do they? As I've shown elsewhere in this thread, they have stated it as absolute fact with actual figures to back it up. That's pretty credible in my book.

  4. Chris

    Mar 06, 2014, 16:10 #47093

    Green Hut - Interesting, isn't it, that you always have a reason why anyone - including those who should be in the 'know' - are lying when they talk of the financial restrictions that Wenger has been under whereas you are quite happy to believe as gospel the only ones who have anything to gain by suggesting that he has money to spend - ie the board. That's why you totally lack credibility as far as that particular argument goes.

  5. Green Hut

    Mar 06, 2014, 14:41 #47083

    Chris- Wow, a French ex-Arsenal player sticking up for Wenger just after he's won another trophy with the club he left Arsenal for, who'd have thought it?!! Nasri gushingly said this about his former manager last year, "If I'm here today it's because of him. I'll never forget what he did for me. I owe him a lot. He gave me confidence not just as a player but as a man as well.That is why I really respect him and really like him because he cared about the men, not just about the players. For some managers they want you to be on the pitch and that is it. For him he wants to talk to you, to know a little more about you to give you the confidence, it was like a second love for me". Have you got anything from someone slightly less in love with The Great Man? His wife, perhaps?

  6. Chris

    Mar 06, 2014, 13:12 #47071

    Green Hut - As if by magic, we have a quote from someone who should have and claims to have inside knowledge about Arsenal: Na$ri. He's quoted as saying: “Arsène Wenger didn’t have the funds to build the team he wanted,” Nasri told ESPN. “I know him really well and he is not happy when he is not winning so I think it is a little bit hard on him because for me is a magician for everything he has done for Arsenal. Look in the league. They are there and they will be there until the end. They were unlucky like us to draw a team like Bayern Munich. In the FA Cup they are still there so they spent some money and they have a good team.”

  7. jeff wright

    Mar 06, 2014, 13:11 #47070

    Wenger is never seen in the stands at other stadiums watching a forthcoming opponent play in the way that others,such as SAF are Chris . So my guess is that ,based on him using the same tactics regardless of who we play, plus zonal marking against that of man marking on corners and set pieces , that Wenger doesn't pay that much attention to opponents but drills our players on the training ground , with them running around cones in passing one touch short passing Barca lite style moves , to try and score MOTD type goals at home on the perfect pitch against modest opposition. Things go somewhat awry when the other lot are of a similar technical ability to our small garden gnome like stature players but are bigger and more physical types . And have also been well organized to deal with Arsene's tippy tappy tactics that baffle the less so sides that regularly get turned over by them at the Emirates and in some away games. Wenger's coaching involves every player being trained to play the same tactical style,this goes from the youth team up to the first,so in theory anyone can after a suitable period ,apparently one week, go straight into the first side whatever the opposition,a'la Sanago. This coaching system and tactics that Wenger employs do not win him anything other than MOTD goal of the month awards ,but don't tell him that because he will just say ,hey do you think think that I am stupid ?! It's all down to ill-fortune and Jupiter not being in conjunction with Mars ,the economic crisis in Europe, Putin invading the Ukraine will be next up if it all goes pear-shaped on Saturday against Martinez's men. Fear not though Arsene will have Ozil and all dashing around cones today to have them ready for Bayern Munich .

  8. Ron

    Mar 06, 2014, 12:55 #47067

    Afternoon Westie - No mate, you dont need to apologise to me at all. Sorry if i was a bit OTT to you though anyway. We ve had enough disagreements to know, its all in the usual banter havent we. Just carry on! Westlower seats? Went in them loads of times myself so yes, 'winner' sounds great Westie! - preferred the East Lower. Dont know why.

  9. Do you really think I am stupid.?

    Mar 06, 2014, 12:19 #47064

    Well no - my players never eat toffees.

  10. Chris

    Mar 06, 2014, 11:27 #47058

    SGRB- No, because Wenger has clearly stated, as I pointed out, "Do you really think I am so stupid as to ignore the opposition?". You can put managers on a continuum from those that base their whole strategy on nullifying the opposition and micromanage the team (a la Mourinho) to those who have a fixed but flexible system with players that are prepared to deal with challenges as they arise (a la Wenger). The team itself is quite heavily tweaked to face different challenges (e.g. playing 2 holding midfielders, 'stiffening' various positions with slightly more defensively minded players etc) and the strategy itself takes into account the various challenges that various teams present but the opposition itself is hardly ignored. Where we have often fallen down defensively is in fairly basic errors because our defense isn't rigidly drilled like some - the whole approach is based on flexibility and empowerment of intelligent players. It isn't a perfect system and it definitely works best with top players (remember Ramos falling out with Mourinho after saying - "Sometimes we players have to react to things that happen on the pitch - you weren't a player so you wouldn't understand that")but it isn't indicative of ignoring the opposition or of incompetent management (although I can see why e.g. Ron, with a degree of competence in basic defensive drilling, might make the mistake of thinking it was). Yes it goes wrong sometimes but for everytime that happens, it probably saves a goal or two. Certainly our defensive record under Wenger has rarely been poor and has generally been pretty good or above. I'm certainly not denying that Wenger isn't a highly tactically manager in the 'traditional' sense but I do strongly disagreed that he doesn't take into account the opposition or watch them to any great extent. So I standby my original comment - to take that quote, run with it literally and caricature the manager with it (in typical Ron style) isn't really a very insightful position to hold.

  11. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 06, 2014, 9:43 #47046

    @Chris, Ron said Wenger "doesnt study or watch to any extent how opponents play". You then called this a "personal favourite" amongst "idiotic preconceptions". I then provided you with a source of Wenger saying "We don't plan for anybody. It is always the same - focus on our strengths and forget about your opponent." Rather than wriggling, shouldn't you be apologising?

  12. Chris

    Mar 06, 2014, 9:17 #47043

    Westlower - Obviously Ron does know his stuff but he doesn't have a complete monopoly on that - most of us on here know something of value, in various ways and to various degrees. If according to him those of us who have different views to Ron don't and can't see because our head is up our a*rse or eyes filled with sh*t, he's pretty much claiming a monopoly. In my case, it's fair enough for Ron to come up with that as I'm pretty confrontational myself but not everyone on the receiving end of it is.

  13. Chris

    Mar 06, 2014, 8:50 #47040

    SGRB - You know I wasn't referring to that one instance! And the RVP reference was to him complaining about team mates getting in his way. Anyway, to you,him and Ron 'legend' - Wenger publicly stated "Do you really think I am so stupid as to not take account of the opposition?" when asked about this. Obviously he has stated that we don't fundamentally change our style to nullify the opposition but that is completely different. You can still react to the opposition without fundamentally changing style to nullify them or without giving players huge dossiers of information (not Fab said he was given more at Barca - not that he was previously given none). What do you think Wenger is looking at when he watches all these games? Do you really think Arsenal could be a top 4 club without taking any notice of the opposition? But hey, if your deliberate misconceptions fit the preconceptions you hold dear, why not spout them? Oh - you do.

  14. Westlower

    Mar 06, 2014, 8:48 #47039

    @Ron, I feel I owe you an apology for my reference to you making a great pub team manager. Obviously if you've coached a couple of your kids to academy level you know your stuff. You didn't deserve my 'cheap shot', albeit delivered 'tongue in cheek.' Sorry matey! You seem to be in agreement with Johnny Lynch that only a w***er would sit in the westlower. Maybe I should change my handle to another word starting with a W and ending with an R. How about WINNER?

  15. Chris

    Mar 06, 2014, 8:39 #47038

    Ron - Well that's ironic coming from you, Ron, legend in your own tiny mind and King of the Under 12s, as you so frequently like to remind us in a pathetic attempt to big up your credentials, and with - you would have us believe - a total monopoly on understanding anything about football. Anyway - yes, there's a difference between watching games in the flesh and on dvd / tv - that's why I go to see games at the Emirates. But I'm sure Wenger gets a lot more opportunity to study other teams by satlletite tv / dvd than if he tried to go to all the games himself. Either way - it's a long long way from him not studying the opposition as you are trying to claim. As for support for my opinions - I'm frequently told that similar views are all over the internet, chum, so it doesn't take any fake dissections to see the error in your typically boorish, strongly held yet poorly backed up rantings. As I said before, I've nevr seen you come up with anything but bilge but don't let that stop you.

  16. Westlower

    Mar 06, 2014, 7:48 #47037

    @SGRB, Apologies for the delay getting back to you but I was out last night. Where has our form gone? I believe Theo's absence has made our counter attacks more pedestrian. We're missing Ramsey's late runs into the box. Flamini was suspended for 3 games. Looking at all results since the turn of the year we've W8, D2, L3. The 3 loses were Liverpool playing brilliant football to blow us away 1-5, sometimes you have to say well done to the opposition. We turned it around a week later beating them 2-1 in the Cup. We lost 0-2 to Bayern Munich after dominating early exchanges before missing a penalty & being reduced to 10 men against the best team in Europe. The most annoying defeat was at Stoke which has already been done to death, & was my original reply to your question. Sorry if you expected so much more. The other item I want to bring to your notice is the influence refs have on AFC games. Opening game v Villa, 2 pens against & red card - ref Anthony Taylor from Greater Manchester; Stoke, soft pen against - ref Mike Jones from Chester, Generally and I can't verify the numbers but it's something like 1 or 2 wins from 16 games since 09/10 with ref Mike Dean from the Wirral (Daily Mail ran a story on it last December). These guys all live close enough to each other to be in the same local pub dart team. Why to refs shun playback technology? At least Charlie Adam picked up a 3 game ban but it doesn't get us any points. Let's hope we get back to winning ways on Saturday.

  17. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 06, 2014, 1:10 #47035

    BADARSE, yes congrats to westie for being the 50,000th post and hopefully that's the amount he wins on the horses tomorrow, but you'll find Ron came up late on the inside for Quip of the day.

  18. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 06, 2014, 0:37 #47034

    SGRB, the chance of OGL asking himself any sort of question is very very rare indeed so don't hold your breath, after all it's always somebody else's fault, and he's got plenty who agree with him.

  19. Green Hut

    Mar 05, 2014, 23:31 #47033

    Chris- Cesc Fabregas speaking to the BBC at the 2010 World Cup, "Here they give us much more information than they do at Arsenal, definitely. At Arsenal we don't really look at anything from the other team, we look for ourselves and that's it".

  20. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 05, 2014, 23:30 #47032

    Chris, I addressed one post to you and GH. He then addressed one to me. From that you deduce we are the two stooges? And what does the RVP reference mean? And I'm glad you highlighted that quote of Ron's as a 'personal favourite'. It's well documented Wenger doesn't study the opposition before we play them. He's told us so enough times himself. A specific example would be last season when asked if he had any special plans for Bale before he twice walked through our defence: "We don't plan for anybody. It is always the same - focus on our strengths and forget about your opponent." (Source: BBC Sport website, 1 March 2013) That's what Ron meant, as you probably already know, and that's a different thing to watching football on the telly a lot, which is also well documented. But hey, if your deliberate misconception fits the preconceptions you hold dear, why not spout it?

  21. Complete Rubbish

    Mar 05, 2014, 23:24 #47031

    Just give him the contract and hell to the non-believers.

  22. Ron

    Mar 05, 2014, 23:12 #47030

    Oh dear its Counsellor Chris, fresh in from the Old Bailey or the High Court no doubt. Your lens of evidential scrutiny is a tad off beam. Wenger watches dvd s. He doesn't watch teams live. His own admission and oft said by his coaches and many media commentators for years. Massive difference, but i wdt expect you to understand. Your entitled to your views on my views all day long and they're very often wrong ive no doubt. I d hate to think i ever sank to the level of sanctimonious pomposity your own utterings reach though. I've never seen a post you've made yet do anything but venture off into a tiresome web of tangents to suit your own agenda and in the main deliberately missing the issues raised with your fake dissections impressing nobody but the most gullible on here. Sadly boring too. You and your alter ego Amos are two peas in the same pod. Have you never wondered why so few support your opinions? Its not hard to work out, if you ever pulled your head out of your arseh--e for long enough.

  23. Chris

    Mar 05, 2014, 22:30 #47029

    SGRB & Green Hut - You two really are like the two stooges but gratifying and amusing to see you standing on each others toes in my absence this afternoon - top stuff, RVP would be proud! Ron - I can understand that you don't like what yo write being put under the lens of rationality and factuality, given that so much of what you write is complete rubbish. My personal favourite today was: "Its a team that's coached by an arrogant man who doesnt study or watch to any extent how opponents play" - of a man who is a well-known football watching addict. But hey - if it sounds good and fits the idiotic preconceptions you hold dear, why not spout it? Deary me.

  24. BADARSE

    Mar 05, 2014, 20:10 #47028

    Congratulations 24601! You were the Online Gooner's 50,000 post today. As with 'Quip of the Day', in recognition of this achievement, I am arranging for a cannon's salute for you in May. This outdoes fourth place chum. Danny, I used to break the oppositions' hearts, so much more satisfying. I was attracted to the ethical manner of attaining superiority. On the pitch did you also recklessly break wind?

  25. Ron

    Mar 05, 2014, 19:57 #47027

    Westie - You must do better fella. Your sarcasm betrays your inability to answer the question SGRB has raised. You've been asked again by him. Lets hear it please if you've anything to offer apart from indignance.A few housekeeping points on your posts though while im here. 2 more of my boys playing for teams leading to academy places last week, at Bham City and Leicester. No gtee of progress, but pub team ethics didnt get them there for sure. Absolutely, Giles and Bremner, Hunter too. All players who would grace this farce of a PL. Your dissing of them betrays either your blinkers, your bias or your lack of understanding of the game, probably all 3. Just the Stoke game? Where have you been for the last 8 years? Theres been more bottling by Arsenal teams in games that i've seen than you'll get at Tetleys.What's more, how come so many comment on it, not just our supporters, but more or less all sections of the media for years. Are they all wrong? As for your WC, Whats does alluding to that prove vis the points and opinions i've made? To take up your theme though as you mention it, Johnny Hartson played in many a WC qualifier. There are also quite a few Championship players going to Brazil too. WC means world class does it, esp if they play for Arsenal? is that how it goes. You carry on beating Wengers drum if you like, but if you can see something so very much different to what many of us have who do the away games have seen for years, then i can only suggest that some of that horse sh-t and dog muck you wade in has got into your eyes. You saw a team of stoppers at Highbury then between 86 and 93? I know those seats in the lower tiers of the West and East stand gave a very poor vista, buy you must have been back row, in one of the letter box view seats or you were too busy perusing form in your racing post matey.You sure missed a lot of our form on the pitch. GG had his faults but i wager, his worst teams never created supporters who no longer cared and believe me, there are many good fans who've fallen by the wayside since this ground shift. Rub that s--t from your eyes and take a look see.

  26. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 05, 2014, 19:41 #47026

    I don't understand what part of Ron's post some people do not understand. Look at the first goal Birmingham scored in the LCF, ball to a big man on the edge of the box = first ball lost! ball headed into the 6 yard box = second ball lost = goal. I won't drag up the ridiculous winner. Everything about that first goal told you what was wrong with our team, no preparation, no physical presence and a team beaten by the weight of expectation. To you lovers of pure football why do you think every team we play keeps kicking Jack's ankles? Don't know? - well it is because they are his weakness and because they can, the one player who might have stopped the "stripped cavemen" from having a pop at Jack was sitting on the bench, why? because the our manager put him there! Dalglish was given a free reign to express his many footballing talents because if anyone took liberties Souness would come calling. Mr father used tell me if anyone touched Jimmy Logie, Alex Forbes would hunt them down. It's not that these hard players are there to break legs, they are there to make sure no one breaks their team mates legs. I prefer Wenger's old Arsenal, the one that would arrive at a northern away ground and ask their opponents "what do you want a war or a game of football, makes no difference to us we will win what ever way you choose" it normally ended up as a football match not a war.

  27. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 05, 2014, 19:33 #47025

    It's a legit question, WL, 'why has the form gone now', whatever your perspective. Certain perspectives don't want to look at that one though. It's not just about the Stoke game, is it. I'd hope the manager and players are asking themselves the same question and trying to do something about it, beyond 'we must keep faith in the way we want to play'. Trouble is, the end of the season won't be the time to address it either, will it - 'let's see what he does over the summer' will be the response then.

  28. Westlower

    Mar 05, 2014, 19:19 #47024

    @SGRB We had a poor performance at Stoke and we're all p***ed off about it. Perspective is needed to replace some anger caused by watching a weak ref allow the other team to rough us up. Whether we like it or not, refs decide football matches. True justice of the game says Stoke should have been playing with no more than 10 men & to get a soft penalty just compounded our bad day. Another day, another ref and we wouldn't have lost that game. It's folly to turn the club upside down & inside out because anger distorts our judgement. Sometimes you have to step back, take a deep breath and go again. Doubtless if we win on Saturday they'll be another mood swing completely the other way with fans singing "she wore" on the way out of the Emirates. If we lose, the same set of words follows every defeat. This team & manager are there till the end of the season no matter how much the fans jump up and down and demand heads. It's self defeating if we allow ourselves to become the enemy within & unsettle the team. This is a time for fans to hold their nerve and not capitulate. Sadly, the media can sense how easy they can wind us up and they rarely miss a trick. They only have to read Ron's piece to get a feeling of the mood within the Arsenal camp and they have more ammo to bash us with. It creates a downward spiral and in my opinion Ron has written an obituary that should be written at the end of the season should we go t*ts up from here. Now is not the time because nothing can be changed until the summer. P.S Please don't expect another response this evening as I'm going to watch the footie! Thanks.

  29. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 05, 2014, 18:50 #47023

    @Westlower, it's easy to use exaggeration to make a point seem absurd. How about having a go at answering the question yourself: Form at the end of last season once out the trophy chase, form in the early and middle parts of this season - why has the form gone now?

  30. Westlower

    Mar 05, 2014, 18:23 #47022

    @Ron, Must be that time of the month matey! At least wait until we lose every game in March before you rubbish the club. Go lie down and regain your composure, maybe a mug of Horlicks. Great assessment of the Stoke game but I wouldn't rubbish the rest of the season based on that game. Heaven forbid that we should have a coach in charge who believes in a certain way of playing. Is it better to be managed by someone who doesn't know what he wants? AFC haven't been a team of stoppers since GG left. Danny has the right idea, let's break a few limbs and earn other teams respect. What's your ideal team Ron? Perhaps Danny & Storey in midfield, Mick Harford up front, Bremner & Giles in the 'hole'. Hunter & Harris at the back. Feed 'em red meat at half time in case the chicken ****s start to lose their aggression. Throw a bucket of ice cold water over them before kick off, John Beck style. You may feel the players are overrated but that's your opinion, some of whom will be playing in the World Cup this summer. Ron, you have a great career as a pub team manager ahead of you. Go thrash your guitar and relieve some tension - Ian Drury's F***ing ADA should do it!

  31. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 05, 2014, 17:41 #47020

    Ron, in a nutshell the arrogant old has been even after all this time still thinks him and his team just have to turn up. But not to worry like Bard has said all is well again (that's always the way after an embarrassment)the star ship enterprise is orbiting London Colney and about to beam our savior back down.

  32. Green Hut

    Mar 05, 2014, 17:25 #47019

    Stroud Green Road Boy- I did think that the Davids quote was pretty standard stuff of the type we've heard before, but Chris called me out on it so hopefully I gave him the kind of anti-Wenger rhetoric that he was hoping for. As for your question at the end, well I can't top Ron's post so I won't even try. Brilliant.

  33. Bard

    Mar 05, 2014, 17:05 #47017

    Ron: steady as she goes Ron, that analysis is a touch too harsh. You've got to get behind the lads. Kallstrom's back or at least he's on the bench ready to be unleashed at any moment. He's the final piece of the jigsaw and he's as cheap as chips. I now believe we are the real deal, ready to go head to head with anyone. I fully expect us to eviscerate Everton and give Bayern a true spanking. Then again my medication might need tweaking a touch as I had a dream last night in which Wenger turned water into wine.

  34. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 05, 2014, 16:36 #47016

    @ Danny, after breaking four men's limbs, did you do a lot of arse busting in prison?

  35. Ron

    Mar 05, 2014, 16:35 #47015

    SGRB - In a nutshell mate. Its a team that cant cope with pressure and expectation. Its a team that lacks tactical nous. Its a team that's coached by an arrogant man who doesnt study or watch to any extent how opponents play and as such seems surprised when they beat his team. Its a team that knows nothing of the dark arts of the game and doesnt want to know, being a slave to the 'philosophy' of its coach who believes that ideals will win football matches. Its a team that lacks physical prowess. Its a team that lacks character in the face of defeat. Its team that cant adapt to changing circumstances mid game. Its a team that isnt good enough to break its own self imposed glass ceiling via being not good enough technically or mentally. Its a team comprising players who are in many cases grossly overrated. Its a Club who have fallen into the trap of convincing itsef that the lesser trophies arent in any way a stepping stone to greater trophies and which do not and wont engender a winning mentality.Its a Club whove forgotten about sporting pursuits and whose sole reason to exist is the creation of wealth. Evidence - the last 5 years. This is whats we see before us and have done for years. Whether its a case that will ever withstand the rigours of 'being beyond all reasonable doubt' or even being correct on 'the balance of probabilities'depending upon which Court His Honour Chris QC happens to be presiding in at any given time, we wont know of course. Doubtless, he ll want an adjournment until May to judge. If im wrong, ill happily attend prone before his lordships Court and plead guilty to being wholly incorrect and not seek parole. Somehow, im planning on an aquittal though.

  36. jjetplane

    Mar 05, 2014, 16:05 #47014

    It may well have alot to do with JW saying 'we should have put the chances away in the first half'. Now what chances did these mannikins produce in the first half - a first half where the Arsenal bench team were too busy joking amongst themselves to be overly worried about what was going on on the pitch. It's like watching some 'entourage' having a jokey stroll before sitting down for dinner and getting back to what they do best - partying .... From the top to the bottom it was a grand show of arrogance and a refusal to face football reality. But like the banks - this is how the money is made. Can we also concur on the pretty stupid point that Suarez would never have to a Arsenal with the current set-up. Bloke likes his football too much. Afternoon everyone!

  37. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 05, 2014, 15:38 #47013

    Sorry to butt in, Chris and GH, but the obvious retort to Chris' last post is: It was you who quoted Davids in the first place. Why else would you have done so unless you believed he had a special insight that added weight to your opinion on the matter. Which doesn't really reconcile with 'neither of us know whether Davids has any inside knowledge'. Anyway, perhaps we should move on from wondering whether or not a former Spurs player has seen or been told about the books at AFC and get back to the matter at hand: the apparent recurrence of the traditional Feb/March collapse. The team were getting results for so long, from the Munich game onwards, when they were left with a CL spot to chase, continuing into this season until very recently, when glory is getting nearer and the pressure is cranked up. What's that all about then, any thoughts?

  38. Chris

    Mar 05, 2014, 13:49 #47012

    Green Hut - Of course I'm not convinced because there is no evidence one way or the other, despite what you are attempting to show. Neither of us really know whether Davids has any inside knowledge or indeed whether Davids has designs on a job that he thinks Wenger may be able to help him with. It was you who invoked the Barnet-Arsenal link to try to demonstrate that Davids wasn't impartial - I have simply provided an alternative explanation as to how those links may have influenced the situation. And of course, you may be right that Wenger, who is known to be far more candid with the French press than he is with that from the UK, may have been very open with the journalists you refer to but personally I think that's highly doubtful.

  39. Green Hut

    Mar 05, 2014, 13:17 #47010

    Chris- But his position wouldn't really have given him access to any privileged information at all would it, certainly no more than any other manager who knows someone who knows someone at Arsenal. He would have been aware of our recent on-field links though. What he said gave no hint of any inside knowledge and was no different to compliments that other football people have given to Wenger, but quite different to the opinions of those journalists closest to Arsenal. And Davids is never going to accuse Wenger of being unnecessarily frugal is he, even if he believed that may be the case. You may be right though, it's possible that when Keith Edelman publicly stated in 2008 that "We have £69m in cash, so we have money available. Arsene has got sufficient funds for any signing he wishes to make", he privately told the Barnet chairman that he was lying, and when Danny Fiszman stated that "If he said 'I want this guy and he's £30m, can I buy him?', the answer is yes. Absolutely yes", he rang Underhill and told them he didn't really meant it. But what I reckon is that, given your usual thoroughness, if you were really convinced of what you are saying you would have flagged up your perception of the Arsenal-Barnet link in your first post. But you didn't.

  40. Agent Davids

    Mar 05, 2014, 12:59 #47009

    Ve have mended da Kallstrom's electrics and let us see how it deals vit da instructions. Am worried dat this Kallstrom maybe too ah triggar-happy for zis fuseball. Flamini is not happy and has started to make friends with Arteta. The Professor has opened a new file. Springtime for Arsenal Yah!

  41. Mark T

    Mar 05, 2014, 12:48 #47008

    Fantastic article. Nothing more to add really. Depressingly predictable.

  42. Ron

    Mar 05, 2014, 12:20 #47007

    Danny - maybe so, but im not being paid a fortune to play them, purportedly as part of a team who has designs on a title win. Your description of Stoke is quite quaint. albeit about 4 years out of date. Theyre not near the bruisers they were, but their old reputation seems enough to put the wind up Wenger and his charges.

  43. Danny

    Mar 05, 2014, 12:12 #47006

    Ron, I bet your chubby little arse would run away too if you came across the Stoke Orcs.

  44. Ron

    Mar 05, 2014, 11:45 #47005

    Bard - Mr Kallstrom can't at least be any worse than the toothless lot that ran away and hid from Stoke as per the norm.

  45. Bard

    Mar 05, 2014, 10:28 #47004

    I read that Stan is the richest Sports entrepreneur featured in the Forbes rich list. Can any of the accountants on the site remind me precisely how much he's put into the club? Great news about Kallstrom being fit, I hear he's the new Zidane. I'm sure he can ignite a charge for the title er or not.

  46. Chris

    Mar 05, 2014, 9:28 #47003

    Green Hut - I kind of realise that but my point is that his position would give him access to information that you or I (certainly me - I can't speak for you I guess, maybe you are privy to inside knowledge)don't have access to that makes him better able to judge these things. Certainly publicly available information (assuming that's what you use, which i suspect it is) has lead you and I to very different conclusions. If Davids doesn't have / hasn't had direct access to Wenger you can be sure he will have had to those that do - as you have pointed out yourself. And we all know that in any walk of life, you are much more likely to have an accurate idea about what's going on in those circumstances than you have if you rely on public information, with all the filters and distortions it's been through.

  47. Westlower

    Mar 05, 2014, 8:30 #47002

    @Badarse, I was forcibly reminded our Charlie is 14, not 13, good footballer & ref. We treasure the photos of him with his hero Charlie George sitting in AW's seat pitch side at the Emirates. You'd really appreciate the Barney Curley book, he's one of life's good guys although the bookies have a different view of him. Now off to Newmarket to see the horses work up Warren Hill. Leave you with some Pink Floyd: So, so you think you can tell, heaven from hell. We're just 2 lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year. Running over the same old ground, having found the same old fears. How I wish.........

  48. BADARSE

    Mar 05, 2014, 7:36 #47001

    Morning westlower, hope you are well. That is wonderful news regarding the fitness position of the two men. Thanks for the 'tip' about the book, it sounds interesting. Charlie at 13 and a ref, wow! Never realised kids of that age were encouraged to go down this route. A good response to the performance of the official in the Stoke game. I have a 13 years old grandson Charlie-he plays, and skilfully.

  49. Westlower

    Mar 05, 2014, 7:11 #47000

    Better news on the injury front with Kallstrom & Ramsey nearing full fitness. Both could be available for the Spuds game. KK is a possible for this weekend.

  50. Green Hut

    Mar 04, 2014, 23:02 #46996

    Chris- I was paying you a compliment, as I would assume someone who watches every Arsenal game, extensively reads media comment on the club and posts most days on an Arsenal messageboard has greater knowledge on Arsenal matters than the manager of Barnet. If Barnet's very close ties with Arsenal related to a sharing of financial information you would have a point with your original post, but as everyone knows they actually relate to a decade of our reserve/youth cup games having been played at Underhill, and Barnet getting 1st team friendies in return. Not too much for Davids to glean from that I'm afraid.

  51. allybear

    Mar 04, 2014, 21:58 #46993

    It amazes me how many deluded people still support Wenger,do they forget all the most embarrasing defeats,poor tactics,laughable player signings? Oh yes and never learning how certain opponents play but still always defeat him? Its pathetic that he still is respected for his continual failures. I hope all his supporters realise that he wont be manager some day. I cant wait until he is gone.

  52. Chris

    Mar 04, 2014, 21:40 #46992

    Green Hut - If, on the one hand, his recent club have 'very close ties' with Arsenal and he is hoping for a top flight job, it doesn't seem very likely that, on the other, he knows less about Wenger than you or I, does it? (although I can see why you might like to wish that was the case)

  53. KC

    Mar 04, 2014, 20:22 #46991

    @radfordkennedy 10.12, Great post I tend to agree with much of what you have said. I remember the mid 80's with 20,000 plus crowds which is why Wenger deserves so much praise. But in those days you paid on the day and at 17 you could still get in the schoolboy entrance paying a pitance. That has all changed, the Emirates changed the landscape, as did the promise of competing with all self sufficient clubs world wide. We have to have a club with action that matches the words. Especially now with the knowledge of the money available to the manager. That's the bottom line "use everything in your power to make you the best you can be" I do not think that any supporter asking for that is asking too much. It's not knee jerk or spoilt its simply asking the club to be true to its word, the stadium and sponsors should be providing the club the money to give us the supporters the best possible team.

  54. Westlower

    Mar 04, 2014, 18:19 #46990

    @Jeff, R/K, Badarse, and anybody else who enjoys reading about one of life's most colourful characters, Barney Curley. The book is 'The Sure Thing' by Nick Townsend. Barney's life began watching his father lose all his money around the dog tracks of N. Ireland. To restore the families honour and repay his fathers debts the pair worked a year in Manchester. Barney returned to Ireland buying & selling anything he could make a profit from. He progressed to managing Irish Show bands who were popular in the 60's. His fame came when he masterminded a betting coup which won him £2.5m in today's money, this has been followed by many more coups. He now lives near Newmarket and has set up the DAFA charity in Zambia. The purpose of which is to help the poor help themselves. Fabulous reading and a hard book to put down. Barney is feared by the bookies but in reality he's a modern Robin Hood figure, winning money from the rich bookies and giving to the poor in Zambia.

  55. Green Hut

    Mar 04, 2014, 17:14 #46989

    Chris- Yes I'm sure the people at Barnet are privvy to all sorts of confidential information re the financial ongoings at Arsenal. Perhaps more likely though is that Davids knows far less about Wenger and Arsenal than you or I and is merely being polite and complimentary about a manager who lives round the corner and may be in the position to assist him with his own managerial career in the future.

  56. The Bleater

    Mar 04, 2014, 16:55 #46987

    Bah Bah

  57. BADARSE

    Mar 04, 2014, 16:43 #46986

    Afternoon gentlemen. Just home and read rafordkennedy's post. Very plaintive chum, a nice touch. Let's see what tomorrow brings, shall we? Just a point Usmanov has lost millions in the last few days due to the unrest and instability in Ukraine. Biggest consolation? So has Abramovitch.

  58. DJ

    Mar 04, 2014, 16:17 #46985

    You can love the club and still question if it is going in the right direction. Blind faith is admirable but my question for those who refuse to criticise anything the club do is: What do you want from your team just to balance the books and keep the directors/shareholders happy or to show some fight and challenge for trophies? It saddens me to see Arsene reduced to the shell of a manager he has become and I hope he is a huge success at PSG next season but unless a miracle occurs like Sanogo scoring a goal time has come for a change.

  59. Glory Hunter

    Mar 04, 2014, 16:15 #46984

    Let me hold that cup Sami?

  60. Chris

    Mar 04, 2014, 15:56 #46982

    Green Hut - "until recently he was player/manager of a club with very close ties to Arsenal, a club that in September Wenger even suggested could become a feeder club for us." In the kind of position where he might actually have had a greater insight into stated constraints than most of us, perhaps?

  61. nicistyx

    Mar 04, 2014, 15:33 #46980

    It all started so well....Then I realised that We still cannot beat Man Utd! David Moyes did not have too pick up any pieces after facing us Home or Away and that tells any Gooner that we have papered over so many cracks and we still Dream about yesteryear and how it used to be Good. Games came thick and fast but we had belief.This current shower has none. Theo getting injured was The Bell Tolling and Missing his pace has become a Dagger in the Heart to Early Season Promise. Lap of the Gods time Now. Fingers Crossed and Prayers. Nothing else to do but squirm with current available Fit Players.

  62. WENGER OUT

    Mar 04, 2014, 13:56 #46976

    Danny - OK I'll bite - do you not see the irony of posting a comment that was entirely full of hot air a nonsense? "The Wob's never had a decent argument in the first place" - read back through 90% of the posts on this forum, many of which detail exactly why he should go, or is that too painful for you petal? What's your argument for Wenger staying, I would be delighted to read it? Let me guess at your logic - "I'm an Arsenal fan, these people disagree with me, therefore they're not Arsenal fans"? "It can't be Wenger's fault, money is no longer an excuse, so it must be the fans fault"? Am I close? Great comments from R/K and Ron as usual, keep it up guys!

  63. jeff wright

    Mar 04, 2014, 13:55 #46975

    Hi Westie, I do a bit of punting myself but prefer to keep things simple . I avoid doing odds on bets like Dracula does crosses. My point was not so much about you backing Stoke to win,albeit you seem to have every other option covered as well, but that you are constantly sermonizing to others on here for not allegedly getting behind the team , as Tom and Terry , would put it, while you posted gloomy predictions about our chances at Stoke on Friday. A bit of an anomaly involved here - but you can spare us the no doubt lengthy and perfectly reasonable explanation for this and let's just move on. Cheers.

  64. Stokiekev

    Mar 04, 2014, 13:45 #46973

    Wenger's moaning is just to deflect attention from his and his team's shortcomings. The Arse didn't create a decent chance until the 95th minute, with all that midfield "talent"! Hope you have a nice losing run til the end of the season you pathetic whingers!

  65. Westlower

    Mar 04, 2014, 13:14 #46969

    @Stan, Totally agree, AFC have been fantastic on occasions when they've been under the cosh. We've never done anything easily. The match officials have never seen us home the way they have for the Mancs & Scousers over the years. Some of my favourite memories is seeing them overcome adversity and stick one in the eye of their detractors. Let's have some more of that you Gunners.

  66. Stan

    Mar 04, 2014, 13:07 #46967

    Westie, Have had some great little earners on Arsenal over the years 1990/91 got 4/1 on Arsenal being champions just after we were deducted 2 points and 7/2 in 94 on the cwc v Parma. Always best having a bet on Arsenal when the chips are down and the fans are all having a whinge up like now.

  67. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 04, 2014, 12:54 #46963

    SD, is that's what we're supposed to do with every defeat like Saturday, every humiliation,and all the years potless, class it as a bad day at work for the team, leave it there and move forward? forward where? Maybe if that would have been done a hell of a lot less by fans, and stop been done even now, there would have been less defeats like Saturday and less humiliations over the last eight years and we might have had something to show for it.

  68. Westlower

    Mar 04, 2014, 12:48 #46962

    @Jeff As I've recently been labelled a 'preacher' here is today's sermon on betting: the true odds of any event where 3 results is possible is 2/1 (33.3%). If a bookmaker priced up Stoke v AFC as 2/1 each + 2/1 the draw, his book would total 100%, which means theoretically he wouldn't make a profit or loss. The best prices, selected from different bookies, were Stoke 5/1 (16.6%), Draw 11/4 (26.7%), AFC 4/6 (60%) which equates to a book of 103.3%. For me, AFC odds are insignificant at this time because I'm only backing the home win + draw. In theory every £100 staked the bookie makes a profit of £3.30. I make a habit of backing any side whose price is significantly better than true odds of 2/1, especially the home side. If the short price side goes a goal behind, the in running odds are quickly readjusted. Because Stoke scored late in the game, AFC odds drifted to 7/1 (12.5%) which is when I backed AFC to win the match. Because I backed Stoke at the biggest odds pre-match I'm now sitting on a profit of 44.2%. 16.6(H) + 26.7(D) + 12.5(A) = 55.8%. This means for every £100 I stake I'm guaranteed to make £44.20 profit. I manage to achieve this 'can't lose' situation many times over a season when the outsider scores first. 'In Running' betting has revolutionised the potential to make a profit on a football match. I understand your repulsion at a Gooner backing against his own team but I specialise in betting on subjects where I have the greatest knowledge. AFC is my specialist football subject. I spend at least 12 hours a day studying racehorse form, pedigrees, etc so I don't have much time to diversify into other areas of football betting. I once won £650 for an outlay of £8 when a certain team came from 2-4 down to draw 4-4 with 5 mins left to play. It's all about thinking on your feet and reacting swiftly to changing circumstance. I have accounts with 12 different bookmakers + 1 betting exchange account to ensure I always get the best price(%). Here endeth the lesson, now where did I put my halo?

  69. Green Hut

    Mar 04, 2014, 12:44 #46961

    Chris- No, he's not an AKB, but until recently he was player/manager of a club with very close ties to Arsenal, a club that in September Wenger even suggested could become a feeder club for us. Davids is now unemployed and living in North London, I'm sure he'd love a job at a big club one day. He even attended the Everton game with Thierry in Dec and spoke to Wenger. And as you well know, accountabilty isn't the main thrust of my Wenger argument.

  70. radfordkennedy

    Mar 04, 2014, 12:37 #46960

    Morning Ron,Westie...I think the same as you Ron,Usmanovs comments regarding Wenger were very clever he's not going to upset the majority by saying hed replace AW he doesn't have to does he its not as if AW is 40 years old is it,Also I do recall comments made by Usmanov when he reached the level of share ownership that he had to make a statement to the city in an article by the top journo Henry Winter that he would build a team with money not borrowed against the club,he has gone on record saying I am here if the club wants me ready to invest and give the manager whatever he needs..I don't think personally that risk would be too much of a problem not in a leeds,pompey,brum fashion anyway...Westie hope your greyhound pup is running well and I am keeping an eye on Willie Mullins for next week

  71. Silly Billy

    Mar 04, 2014, 12:32 #46959

    its so glaringly obvious that the pro arsene knows best are right

  72. Tony Evans

    Mar 04, 2014, 12:21 #46957

    RadfordKennedy - Well said - I couldn't have put it better myself.

  73. Unchives

    Mar 04, 2014, 12:16 #46956

    Let’s look at the facts fellow Gooners, Arsenals turnover is approx £280 million, over half of that (£145 million) goes on wages for good to average players, the fourth highest wages behind City, Chelsea & Manure, we can’t go much higher without it becoming unsustainable. This is solely Wenger's fault as he insisted on a Socialistic-capitalistic wage parity payments, in other words equally high pay for all (From Gazidis mouth via AST meetings). Arsenal shares were bought by Kroenke for approx £12k each, they are currently worth nearly £16k and rising, and that’s after winning nothing for 8 years, why would he sell? The FA Cup brings in £6 - £10 million, Premiership £20 million Champions League £40-£60 million, what would you prioritize. It’s a money game if run as a business which is what it is now, for Arsenal. The so called AKBs follow the party line, so unless the FFP starts working, forget it, a new manager will at least address the glaring tactical errors and staff shortage. Every manager has a shelf life and Wenger's is over, it’s a shame that when our full potential is realised ie. when the new sponsors are on board and the new FFP rules brings some sanity by controlling these Fake Football franchise that are City & Chelsea. Or the big indebted company like Sky Sports Man Utd collapse (£800 million debt), that Wenger will not enjoy what he worked so hard and dreamed for as I doubt he will be here.

  74. Chris

    Mar 04, 2014, 11:51 #46955

    Jeff - "my view is that Wenger should, with his resources, be capable of going for both a top 4 place and at least a FAC final." Fair point, you would have thought so on occasion at least but as you know we have sometimes been undone by fielding weakened teams. In hind sight, we can see that this was futile as it didn't much help our CL hopes but hindsight is a wonderful thing...

  75. last refuge of a scoundrel

    Mar 04, 2014, 11:39 #46953

    The AKBs are running out of arguments and excuses for his continued failure and now resort to blaming the supporters! Uneffingbelievable!!

  76. jeff wright

    Mar 04, 2014, 11:34 #46952

    Chris, my view is that Wenger should, with his resources, be capable of going for both a top 4 place and at least a FAC final . The annual fun-fest of qualifying for the champions league and going out against the best sides in the KO rounds allows Wenger the illusion of competing at top level every season even though he is never up to winning the European Cup . Same with alleged league title challenges that always fall apart at some stage with a late run of results against ordinary sides at the end of the season being used by you and others to claim that bad luck and injuries done for us again! However these late runs always occur now days when no European games are left to get in the way, or domestic cup ones either, and so Wenger's weak squads can cope better. No matter how much you and others keep on sermonizing about getting behind the team and this in AKB speak actually means Wenger himself, the fact are that nothing ever changes it is always deja vu predictable.

  77. Chris

    Mar 04, 2014, 11:29 #46951

    Ron - You do yourself a disservice with comments like "There are those though who see Wenger as some kind of a great deity and omnicompetent and omnipresent" because NO ONE thinks anything like that from what I've read and all you do is illustrate that despite the facade you like to keep up quite a lot of the time, you really can't stand anyone having opinions different from your won and so you resort to caricaturing them in an attempt to belittle and control (in your own mind). Not very grown up.

  78. DJ

    Mar 04, 2014, 11:12 #46950

    As it is the fans fault we haven't won anything for nine years on the flip side was it thanks to me we won the Littlewoods Cup in 1987 the one season I didn't miss a game? If so is my medal in the post???

  79. Ron

    Mar 04, 2014, 11:02 #46949

    R/K - Morning mate. Good stuff. I think many, many of us are like you. There are those though who see Wenger as some kind of a great deity and omnicompetent and omnipresent. The worrrying thing is that AW thinks he is too im sure! Like you, i think Kroenke will seel and i think he will do when the share price is optimized, ie when all of the debt has gone. Im not sure he can asset strip anymore as we have so few assets left.On the Usmanov point. I think its almost a givent that Usmanov will hoocer up the shares once Kroenke lets go. Who else is there? Hes likely to create the Club debt though or at least want a return. Such men dont just 'give' gifts. The Araba at City are an exception, as Man City are just a part of an ever growing portfolio of their world wide leisure and business group. They can afford to 'gift it' so the rules are different. The returns (for now) are them having a greater profile in the west. It cd change for them though. The Board at Arsenal in my view is ruven with conflict and indecision, henec Usmanov is cast as a pariah. They know he ll oust most of them if ever he takes over and Westie, hes a business 'politician'. Of course he ll say he ll keep Wenger. Hes tapping into the present mood of the majority perhaps that still want Wenger to carry on regardless and wants to seem to have a softer face. The truth is that both Wenger and Usmanov both know that Wenger will walk the day Usmmanov or whoever else of that ilk takes over Arsenal, so he not actualy promising anything.Ive not yet gathered my own views on what i think of an Usmanov take over and not sure its possible too until it happens mate.

  80. Chris

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:56 #46948

    Jeff - You are as usual wholly incorrect in 'what Wenger actually said' but I will say no more about that as I don't want to get into one of your pedant-fests. You and others like to use the old 'opinion' card too frequently, to claim an unassailble right to views that can be found wanting under analysis of fact. The only room for opinion that I can see, is whether CL qualification is more important than winning domestic cups. And given that without CL qualification, the whole financial house of cards comes tumbling down, I can't really see that there is too much mileage in that either from a operations point of view of the club.

  81. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:55 #46947

    @Chris, okay good, we agree on your second sentence. I also agree context is important, and you've now given that for the Davids quote. And as you don't wish to wilfully misconstrue and there was an awful lot of it (far too much), I'll summarise what I meant - There were two points by me: 1. Our head to head record means we don't compete with them in terms of that record. 2. We don't compete with them at the top of the table for the title, so in my opinion we don't compete with them. So, we don't compete with them either way. Conflating the two is an attempt to discredit due to disliking the data, or perhaps the poster.

  82. DJ

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:51 #46946

    Westlower: After nine years the glory hunters jibe really does wear a bit thin. All I want is for the team to show they care and go down fighting, not like scared children. Remember the only time we won at Stoke when Ramsey broke his leg? Cesc grabbed the team and the game by the balls and we steamrollered them. Sol, TV and rest went mad with us supporters at the end. That's what I want I team not afraid to lose! We ended up winning nothing that year as well but that game will live with me for ever can't think of many sine.

  83. Danny

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:50 #46945

    Bard I agree with SD the fans need to stop bleating and underestimating this team. Subconsciously the team will always underperform if the fans tell them they're not good enough, also referees will give us nothing as they will feel if the fans aren't with them why should we. After watching the other top four teams we're the equal of any of them. Manure have always had positive fans and have won endless trophies over the years playing a far more limited game than us the referees always pandered to them because in their minds they know Manure have to win just like the positive scousers who used to win everything and are more positive than us at the moment despite being behind us for some time. Chelsea and Spud fans have always been more positive despite no history of winning things. Bard mentions Sunderland as having great fans, well only 16,000 turned up for their last FA cup game and that despite only charging about 20p to get in, Newcastle were getting similar crowds when they were struggling in the 90's whilst Cardiff are mainly druids who get excited about anything not necessarily the football.

  84. jeff wright

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:50 #46944

    What Wenger actually said Chris was that there may have been some constraints on spending after the move to the new stadium , but there is now more money available to him to spend .So he did not even say that he had any restrictions on spending what was available to him - only that there may have been. Of course ambiguous comments from Wenger regarding what he may or may not have to spend are what we have come to expect from the master of illusion - so there is a certain amount of guess work involved regarding all of this malarkey. Apart that is from yourself of course - because you know exactly what is going on and Arsene has been working wonders,right? It's a matter of opinion however in reality , a word that I know you shy away from , as to if Wenger is actually making best use of his available resources and £150+m wage bill and not a matter of fact that he is doing so. Other of course in your own mind. My view,and also from what I heard,seen,read many others is that Wenger should prioritize the FAC now over the Champions League,that bird has flown again and it's time that Wenger stopped hiding behind qualification for Europe as being a trophy and actually won one. The FAC is his best opportunity to do that, and also provide a double whammy by disproving Mourinho's jibe that Wenger is a specialist in failure . Because to many people that is exactly what Wenger has become no matter how you dress it up with financial claims used to justify this failure to win anything it is just failure.

  85. Westlower

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:43 #46943

    @R/K, For the second time today, take a bow son. Heartfelt, honest appraisal of AFC. Whether Usmanov will ever replace Stan is unknown but unlikely in the short term. Ironically, Usmanov has stated previously of his desire to keep AW in the job if he chooses to stay on beyond his current contract. As much as we all want success on the field, radical changes at the top may destabilise the club and see us fall away. As in all things in life any change of direction comes with a risk attached. Stability may be boring but a top club cannot be run on passion & emotion.

  86. Chris

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:35 #46942

    SGRB - I'm not willfully misconstruing anything - and as I admitted, it was only a skim as there was quite alot of it.... What is undoubtedly true is that we're not doing as well as we used to against the top teams and it would be very welcome if that were to change! As for your previous post - I deny the implication that historical financial constraints are now completely irrelevant and shouldn't be mentioned because they have now been partially alleviated and I also deny the implication that context is irrelevant when assessing managerial ability based on trophies won. Obviously I don't deny the facts, just they although they might speak for themselves, they don't tell the whole story.

  87. Ron

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:28 #46941

    SD - Your comments rest on a totally flawed assumption ie that those of us who think change is needed at the Club including a change of coach dont somehow support our team. I can only speak for me when i say that when i attend games and i still do quite a few away from home, as they in my view represent a rump of our most committed supporters, but our suport to the team is unconditional albeit the support for Wenger in my experiece amongst our away crew has waned considerably in the last 3 years. You might be aware (if you ever go to games) that our support has been commented on frequently by even the media during the worst of our embarrassing thrashings in the last few years. So, if you dont mind, think before you type. There are none of away supporters i venture who welcome failure or want our team to lose. Many of us though are sick to death of the manner in which we often lose under Wenger. I wasnt at Stoke last week end, but i know a lot who were and theyre all saying it was 'same old same old', a team full of fear walked onto that pitch last Saturday and many had noted it within minutes of the KO. The flaky, whinging fraternity amongst Arsenal fans, all frequent the Emirates on match days. We dont experience many of them on away days. You should be a bit more discerning when you choose to slake off our real supporters, though you ll always have approving readers like Westie, as your comments suit his views. How often by the way do the likes of you and Westie have to polish your halos so to remain at the peak of that moral high ground you like to think you stand on?

  88. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:22 #46940

    @Chris, whatever you think my 'agenda' is, what exactly in my last comment do you deny? And it seems you're another that is wilfully misconstruing my point regarding head to head records. As you will know if you read properly and without favour, rather than skim, I introduced them as a mechanism to demonstrate we are below par in this regard. Nowhere did I claim it's a 'better' barometer than points accrued as to how we compete with the 'big boys'. And I believe I'm allowed my own opinion on what I think 'competing' is. I really don't want to go on and on about this yet again with someone grimly determined to always have the last word - you've never struck me as quite so bad in that regard.

  89. Chris

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:16 #46939

    "Wenger himself said sometime back that he was free of financial restrictions now." Er no Jeff, as of 12 months ago Wenger said there was more money available and that he could do things he couldn't do before - e.g. Ozil. He never said he was freed of constraint, as Chelsea have been and Citeh are - in fact he said quite the opposite. " Ferguson showed last season that it is possible to take on the petro fueled clubs and he beat them by winning the league." Ferguson consistently spent 50% more than Wenger on wages + net transfer spend - makes it easier to compete with the Big Boys. "Tactics shrewd use of substitutes during games and man - management play a big part in football and it's in these areas that Wenger has been coming up short." You say this and yes, he has a... different style and approach to many but the over all results are still very good - you are guilty of putting nuance before fact because of your frustration. "So let's see how he approaches the FAC tie with Everton. " We know he prioritises the CL and CL qualification over the FA Cup, the latter understandably. If he didn't, we'd probably have won a couple of cups at least during the recent drought. Sadly, it does mean we are more likely to come a cropper against Everton but let's hope the chaps were saving themselves at Stoke for that game....

  90. radfordkennedy

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:12 #46938

    Morning all..I tend not to post when debates turn into a pigeon holed for or anti AW rant,because the valid points people make tend to get dismissed by an army of posters who want to pick you up on your terminology or choice of phrase,or provide cast iron proof of something you've said and it gets a bit tiresome to be honest.For the record as a dad-grandad,I taught my young never use the word hate but by the same token always stand up for yourself and never be afraid to question,which is why I think I fall somewhere between the pro and anti camps..It is just my opinion you understand but I think the Gunners have reached a point where big decisions have to be made,we have always been a top domestic team better than most not as good as some with the occasional periods of greatness as well as the odd sortie overseas to take on johnny foreigner with varying success.AW came along and took us up the ladder with style and swagger and a calibre of player unknown to us,but now I think its time to write the next chapter in our history,a very clever man once said that "in the future it won't be the strongest who survives,but those most willing to adapt to change",now I can't see this happening with our current owners or manager,which is a shame as I honestly feel that we've reached the point where we've got to stop pretending to be a top side with average to good players and take us up another level to really compete and stop trying to run a Rolls Royce on a Mini engine,for me this means Usmanov,you can debate all you want on his credentials but the fact remains he has the extreme wealth to make us a true stellar force at no debt to the club,I don't want to see us hurtle back down the ladder to the mid seventies where a top 10 finish and the hope of a good cup run was all there was,As a club historicaly we've always been innovative and ready to accept changes and I firmly believe we are at that point now if we don't move on others will be over the hill and far away we have to start walking the walk and stop pretending to be a big club.As far as Stan the syrup goes I think he knows he pretty much reached the aim of his business plan in so much as his objective to asset strip the club and replace with inferior goods has been achieved,nothing makes a business more attractive to buy than massive cash reserves sponsers standing by and a high profile in the orient and asian markets so I wouldn't be overly surprised to see him sell up at a massive profit,I hope then that we can move on from being the nearly men to a really big and successful club..and before anyone accuses me of being a glory hunter I'm old enough to remember when we were really s#it and you could have put 2 Harriers down on the northbank without hitting anyone,I just want more and the time for change is now

  91. jeff wright

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:06 #46937

    Wenger himself said sometime back that he was free of financial restrictions now ,albeit he has always had more money than most other managers . Ferguson showed last season that it is possible to take on the petro fueled clubs and he beat them by winning the league . Tactics shrewd use of substitutes during games and man - management play a big part in football and it's in these areas that Wenger has been coming up short . Especially in Europe where he would be king. So let's see how he approaches the FAC tie with Everton he got away with fielding a weak side against Liverpool although in the end it has probably made life easier for Rodgers and his merry men being out of the cup. Everton are likely to be up for the cup though with Martinez in charge and he often gives Arsene a few problems tactically . I suspect that Wenger will be looking at mission impossible away to BM though and Sanago will be on parade again up front.

  92. Ron

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:03 #46936

    Franky - Nobody is saying that a PL team shd mimic a pub team. Whats being said by a few of us is that a top team requires some hard players who are prepared to mix it. If youre correct in saying that a team doesnt need such types, name a title winning team in the last 30 years that hasnt had one or moreof such players. When you do, ask yourself if the notion of the 'beautiful game' to which you ascribe actually exists. BADARSE - a pansy is a delicate flower and i for one am sick and tired of seeing our flowerbeds trampled on at will by more muscular teams as a result of the lack of protection afforded to them within the team. As an eg take a look at how Nasri has thrived at City now. Hes the same player, but hes doing well at what he does now knowing that hes got his 'insurance men' around him. At Arsensl he was kicked to bits every week. Why? Because opponents knew they could.Football isnt a game for softies despite the rule changes of the last 15 years and hopefully it never will be.

  93. sssss

    Mar 04, 2014, 10:01 #46935

    yaya

  94. Chris

    Mar 04, 2014, 9:56 #46934

    SGRB - Yes SGRB and as you well know, Davids comments are a direct reference to that disparity and provide an attempt to reconile it with his interpretation. As for '2014' - the previous decade isn't rubbed out in an instant - and we know, three teams have spent more than Arsenal even this year.... As ever, you attempt not to see the obvious in an effort to further your agenda. Incidentally, was I dreaming or did i actually skim a thread in which you attempted to argue that head-to-head records were a better measure of ability to compete with the 'top teams' than points accrued over 38 games? Very strange.

  95. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 04, 2014, 9:50 #46933

    @Chris, still playing the 'financially constrained' card in 2014? What Davids says is speculation. I imagine GH would have no problem giving his own opinion were they to meet. We don't know how Wenger and Guardiola would respectively do if they were to swap positions. The facts are though that Guardiola has actually won the European Cup whilst Wenger has never won a European trophy of any description, and that Wenger's record over many seasons now in the biggest, most decisive matches is poor.

  96. Chris

    Mar 04, 2014, 9:22 #46932

    “What Wenger has done with the financial constraints he has is overall outstanding. Wenger doesn’t have so many top players. When they’re out, he pays a heavy price for it. I don’t deny Guardiola is one of the best. But when you consider the whole picture, Wenger is the best” Is Edgar Davids an AKB? Certainly moreso than me, it would appear. Maybe Green Hut should go and re-educate Pitball on how Wenger is actually a sniveling coward who isn't financially constrained but chooses not to spend the resources available so he isn't held accountable for his own inevitable failure.

  97. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 04, 2014, 8:57 #46931

    Frankytheswede: You clearly don't think games can be lost in the tunnel then, and that Tony Adams never told certain players to take a card for the team. The Steve Bould 5th minute "call card" in your eyes never happened or the "Invincibles" never committed cynical fouls. Well they did and there is a great clip of "Smokin Joe" Lauren putting Ronaldo onto the cinder track at Highbury for having the temerity to skin him a few times. You may not like this part of football but without it you will not win trophies. High skill is of course required by all top teams but when it is fashioned by big framed heavyweights it is pretty much the perfect balance, Bayern anyone? As for tactics and formations everyone knows our manager gave up on these non essentials years ago!

  98. jeff wright

    Mar 04, 2014, 8:50 #46930

    SD, supporters are getting behind the team before and at games. I myself posted on here that I thought we could beat Stoke and so did others. I suggested on Friday that the Stoke game was a good opportunity to kick-start a good run of results in what is our most difficult set of them so far, unfortunately this was not the case though. Is no one allowed then to comment on why this failed to occur? After all it is not as though it was the first time that we have witnessed performances like Saturday's one this season,or in other recent ones either. It's all well and god you and others coming on here lecturing supporters about what they should be doing,but what about Wenger ? What about players like Giroud? At the end of the day it is down to them to produce results . Everton up next and another chance for them to do so and to justify the support that they receive from supporters of AFC. Westie your praise of SD well and good however it should be pointed out that while myself and others were backing us to beat Stoke , figuratively speaking that is, you were on here predicting doom and gloom for us and backing old Sparkies neanderthal Stoke with cash to win the match !

  99. Bard

    Mar 04, 2014, 8:45 #46929

    SD; the team are as good as the fans ! What a lot of twaddle. Why haven't Nwecastle, Sunderland, Cardiff done anything in the last 20 years? Please explain. Also what's with the lets wait till may argument. Whats happening in May?. Is Kallstrom due back? Or will we be celebrating 4th? I feel I've missed something.

  100. julesd

    Mar 04, 2014, 8:10 #46926

    Alsace Lorraine DT It's a good thing that you aren't the Arsenal manager as Stoke players would have delighted in watching Flamini get sent off, of course you would be whinging like mad if he had played and the red card was shown to him, the Stoke players and especially their manager would have been rubbing their hands in delight and as there was such a coward of a referee in charge the inevitable would have happened. Why do you suppose they put out a plea for the Arsenal players not to 'gang up' against Shawcross, they were just making sure! I'm certain they were all very disappointed when he (Flamini) didn't play. Think about it.

  101. BADARSE

    Mar 04, 2014, 8:06 #46925

    Good morning gentlemen. Firstly Frankytheswede some old farts arE horrified by the concept of descending to a moronic, grunting level of pub football at AFC. I abhor it even with pub teams and have scars all over my legs which bare witness to my engagements with these limited 'sportsmen'. Good post buddy. Danny, why? It's because the mob always follow the loud call to arms, that is why the drum has been used down the ages. Shouting, fist-shaking are the catalysts and you can hear the horde behind, listen...'baah, baah, baah.' Ron can you please explain what a 'pansy' is? Without repetition, hesitation, deviation or homophobia.SD I must have stood next to you nearly 50 years ago on the North Bank, if it wasn't you it was one of nearly 20k like you. Well done chum. Good old Arsenal.

  102. Westlower

    Mar 04, 2014, 7:46 #46924

    @SD, Take a bow SD. How refreshing to read the thoughts of someone with a different perspective to people thinking about mutinying & lynching the Captain on board HMS Glory Hunter.

  103. SD

    Mar 04, 2014, 7:02 #46923

    Good article.... But here is a counter thought.."The team is as good as the fans are" After every game lost or drawn, we suddenly lose confidence in the team and quickly judge it to be at best 4th. In the Oct-Jan, phase even when we were no. 1, we still had fans praying for the day when Arsenal eventually becomes 4th. Players mentality & Wenger's mentality is questioned after every game lost or drawn, well I question the fans' too.. there are 10 games left, lets get behind the team and not against it. With all honesty don't think Chelsea or Liverpool have a better team than us.. easy fixtures and an in-form team thats more that they have right now. The team didn't have a good day at work, lets leave it there and move forward. As far as fans waiting for Wenger to leave.. well we all know what has happened to United.. "Champions to not even Europa". If you are waiting for Pep to turn up and make this Arsenal team another Barcelona.. sorry he had Messi, Xavi and now Robben and Gotze... we might just end up with New castle or closer to Stoke in the league table. "Time to get behind the team till May"

  104. Danny

    Mar 03, 2014, 23:01 #46922

    I don't know why everybody is suddenly wanting Arsenal to become some sort of hardball grizzly outfit just because we lost at Stoke. For the majority of our existence barring a few short periods we have been about about flair and good play particularly from the 30s to the 60,s the late 70's late 80's and late 90's to the present. Best leave the crunching hoofball to the likes of Manure,Spuds,Victims,Chavs,Wimbledon,Dirty Leeds with their frankenstine players like Keane, Mackay, Smith, Harris, Jones and Hunter. We don't need any of that crap we're The Arsenal.

  105. frankytheswede

    Mar 03, 2014, 22:56 #46921

    SKG you are right that is a pathetic childish solution to how the team (our so called pansies as RON would descibe them) can get the best result against the teams who adopt a more physical approach to there game when playing us. and RON this isnt pub footbal or football from the stone age. how can we be enlightened from a load of fat pissheads who like to kick the crap out of each other on a sunday lol. and SKG send the beast on to administer retribution LOL im sure he would like that LOL wow talk about the beautiful game haha you two old farts are off youre head, its a problem we have at arsenal and its down to tactical,technical, limitation of the players and the manager we have. in short we need a new top manager and better players if we want to compete with the top clubs in europe we are nowhere near there level. if we do not win anything this season its because we are not good enough, if we do its because we have overachieved have you seen some of the players playing for arsenal, no offense to the boys but some of them are well lol

  106. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 03, 2014, 22:19 #46920

    KC, we will never ever ever ever get/have the old wenger back, a lot of fans have known that for a long time now, but there's still a lot who think it's going to happen, and that's part of the problem mate.

  107. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 03, 2014, 21:56 #46919

    Ron, straight from the hip six gun blazing, excellent post, you just don't have to be a neanderthal player, hacker, bog man, to be able to give it back when it's been received (as some seem to think) you just have to look back at the Arsenal teams (but as you say before these pansies were recruited and came on the scene) to see who could hold their own and dish it out when needed and at the same time play excellent football and win honors.

  108. Mkherd89

    Mar 03, 2014, 20:53 #46918

    here we go again anti wenger brigade ...MUGS

  109. Jason B

    Mar 03, 2014, 20:47 #46917

    perhaps we should sign Pardew on loan for the rest of the season. He wouldn't take any crap from Stoke, would he?!! :)

  110. Jason B

    Mar 03, 2014, 20:36 #46916

    Three points. 1.Well said, Kevin.Get the feeling was that the players were more interested in avoiding injury and jeopardising their World Cup places.2.@ Ianmac.City have to win those games. Rather have the points than games in hand.3.Terry why did you stop reading after 'stoke deserved their win'. You didn't think we deserved anything on Saturday, surely?

  111. KC

    Mar 03, 2014, 19:53 #46915

    I guess Championship should read Premiership, just showing my age sadly.

  112. KC

    Mar 03, 2014, 19:40 #46914

    I believe we all have a breaking point and after so much bold talk I know I just could not take that pathetic performance from a team apparently challenging for the title. That's my reason for finally withdrawing support to Wenger. I will never slag him he has done so much and left a legacy but there has to a full stop to the same performances, same errors, same policy. I guess I may be like many that want the old Wenger back with the strong midfield, pace, exciting football but I don't believe it will happen. It's not knee jerk its not ungrateful it's total f****** frustration. There is a power problem at the club Wenger has to much when he had to prove himself he bought now he just does as he pleases. He reacts to questions at meetings as if we are crazy and he has had the backing of fools like Hillwood etc who never put any pressure on him. I want to win the fa cup just to stop the 8 year sentence every commentator can't wait to blurt out, in reality I want the championship or the champions league because I dream of us being the best. I know Wenger wants the champions league but he wants it his way which is unrealistic and foolish. Quick word re Ozil I understand why people question him but please remember Mr PIres he taught me to always wait until the second season the difference was beyond belief

  113. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 03, 2014, 19:37 #46913

    That was the game Ron - Ade was disgraceful that afternoon and Stoke bullied us all that afternoon. I always felt with Bolton that we were not so much frightened but that Wenger never had a plan when Davis would go out wide and stand next to Clichy at set pieces. We just left him and instead of a big man following him Davis would always win the first ball and Nolan normally would get the second and put it in the net. Ron you are so right about hardness applying to pub football right up to Premier League level. I played a lot of Sunday morning football and the better stuff on a Saturday, the Sunday team I played for were a great bunch of guys and we never won a stick! However the Saturday side were not the sort of guys you would want your daughter to come home with - but we won everything, they made you wince and I played with them! All our great captains would run through any player for the sake of the team and we have all seen them do it many times. You tend to know when a side has something and the 70 71 double team played Leeds with 10 men for most of the match after Eddie had been sent off and we match them tackle for tackle and move for move, that 0 - 0 evening draw made me realize something was happening to the team. You can see it and you can feel it but I see fear and feel fear in this current team and it has to change.

  114. jjetplane

    Mar 03, 2014, 19:20 #46912

    Of continuing concern is the theory of 'fielding a weakened team'. Do we really have a strong team and I agree with Jeff on Flamini as hard man. He really isn't and Arteta is Wenger's idea of steeliness. Reading JW in the Gazzette pre-Stoke he gave it the playing like Barca and Bayern philosophy which is obviously fed to the players weekly by le prof and this may explain the slow starts which are a mixture of fear and complacency. Arsenal presently play like a fairly decent La Liga side which may put Ozil's current malaise in greater perspective. Right side- wrong league. Being very nice there. Cannot be bothered to bash what is only a corporate idea of football.

  115. Ron

    Mar 03, 2014, 19:06 #46911

    SKG - Not pathetic at all. Far from it. Like you, ever seen it at Stoke. The game when the payer launched himself at Adebayor when Ade was off the pitch already!!It might have been their 1st season up. That was a 2-1 i think. Terrible fear. I saw it at Sunderland too. The lad Henderson, now of Liverpool and the guy they bought that season. Loric Cana was his name? Them two set about Hleb Rosicky and Cesc. Them pair left Cesc to it. Disgusted me to see two Arsenal players run and hide. I saw the fear at Stoke in the Cup too. 3-1 loss a few years back. Sol had come back just then and he tried to cajole them to fight. Waste of time.The Bolton years when Davies and Nolan used to scare the living sh-te out of ours. Happened for 2 or 3 seasons.Wenger has coached the fight out of his teams. They've been a team of cowardly pansies for years. Theres not a team in history whove ever won anything who hasn't had players who can take revenge and who knows how to seek retribution in them. Take Keane from the utd teams of 93 - 2004 and the Club wdt have won the half of what they did. Wenger looks at these sides like Barcelona and thinks its the purity of the football that carries them by. Hes a blind man. He must be. Check out the slyness of Puyol and the CB they had from United and Dani Alves. Hard as nails and dirty too when you know what you're looking for. An opponent needs to know it doesn't screw with the opponent, before the game, not during it. TRhe games changed and the rules have too, but there are still lots of players who play the sinister game. This Flamini some on here revere. Mate, he wouldnt scare my labbie. Hes not as far through as a good s--t. Runs around like an aimless chicken shouting and bawling and ripping his sleeves. He convinces nobody. What is he 5 feet 9 and maybe 12 stone? He d be oK playing for west brom or Norwich but wouldn't get near a team serious for titles. Creative middle men need enforcers alongside them as much now as they did when Peter Storey used to wait outside the opponents dressing room for the visitors to arrive and remind his opposite number that he would meeting him out there soon enough. This applies in pub football right up to the PL. Arsenals soft belly has been there for years. A team reflects its boss and Wengers gone soft years back.

  116. GoonerGoal!

    Mar 03, 2014, 18:41 #46910

    So 2 wins in 6 games and what should the acolytes of the "Serial Loser" really expect from the next 6 matches? EVERTON (h) - Unlike most of us, Wenger will not accept the FA Cup as the only trophy we have any chance of winning, so I’m pretty sure we can expect a weakened team to take the field. Meanwhile, Martínez who takes a directly opposite view of the FA Cup is likely to field his strongest team possible. BAYERN (a) – No matter what team Wenger fields, there is no doubt that we will be exiting a competition, which in reality we haven’t had any chance of winning since 2006! SPURS (a) – We have won only once at the Lane since 2005. CHELSEA (a) – Wenger has never beaten Mourinho home or away. CITY (h) – City have the undeniable ability to score twice as many goals as us. EVERTON (a) - Could go either way dependent on the form of both sides over the previous weeks. So, next 6 games? An FA Cup semi-final maybe, but don’t expect more than 3 or 4 points from the next four Premier League games! WENGER/KROENKE/GAZIDIS OUT! VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

  117. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 03, 2014, 18:36 #46909

    Good points as usual Ron : What if we had kept Fringpong as a sacrificial sub. My thinking is as follows: Watch who out of the Stoke players has committed the worse fouls and after 80 minutes send the beast on to administer retribution. After doing this for a few games the message might get through - I know one thing Adams would have been a bit better behaved if he knew what was coming and you know what Emmanuel would have loved to have done the job. I know I sound pathetic but a few years back I watched us lose 2-1 at Stoke and it has scarred me ever since, you see it was the first time in over 50 years of watching Arsenal that I ever saw an Arsenal side frightened of the team they faced on the pitch. It happened again last Saturday and I hated it!!

  118. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 03, 2014, 18:29 #46908

    DW Thomas, interesting indeed and from the look of this page/thread from a lot of newcomers too, i wonder why that could be.

  119. jeff wright

    Mar 03, 2014, 17:57 #46907

    I agree with Franky ,Wenger has left Flambo out before and even said he was reluctant to resign him! Wenger clearly prefers Arteta . Flam made no difference at Southampton where we saw a similar lacklustre display from our players and the Saints are no bruisers . Flam ,who is booked in every game ,still managed though to get himself sent off. Tbh I don't think that he frightens anyone and would have made no difference to the performance of our other players.

  120. Anti-Wenger

    Mar 03, 2014, 17:42 #46906

    On Jack Wilshere- I suspect he's still not fully over his ankle injuries(mentally). He wasn't an easy player to dispossess in the past, but since all these injury issues, he seems scared of getting injured again, so he's not strong in the tackle as he used to be. On our Title chances- I'm only dissapointed with those who are surprised that we're fading away. what were you all expecting? That we could win the League?seriously? with AW in charge?

  121. frankytheswede

    Mar 03, 2014, 17:27 #46905

    guys you dont leave a player out because he might get sent off, wenger picked the best team he thought would get the best result. the team lost the game, they didnt turn up no other reason they are far superior to stoke they just played like crap, simple as that.

  122. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Mar 03, 2014, 17:17 #46904

    Westie, I know that it's stating the bl**din obvious, but you don't keep your weapons out of the most significant battle because you might not have them for later. Leaving Flamini out for this one was inexcusable and unforgivable. If we had deployed him Stoke would not have given us a physical pasting, and it would have given our team confidence. That is how it works.

  123. Westlower

    Mar 03, 2014, 17:09 #46903

    @Alsace, Haven't you answered your own question? Wasn't Flamini left out because in all probability he would have been red carded again, given the previous animosity between him & the Stoke players. History shows that AFC hatchet men are not tolerated by refs. We could ill afford to lose him for our next set of domestic games. My take on our March fixtures is Everton(W), BM(L), TH(W), Chelsea(L), Man C(D). That'll put us in FA Cup semi; out of CL; 63 points with 21 pts to play for. Being out of CL will partly clear the fixture congestion. Remaining 7 games in PL are winnable. @Ron, Good luck at Aintree, because you'll need it. Limit your betting to fun bets only.

  124. Bard

    Mar 03, 2014, 17:06 #46902

    DW; youre right about the after losing posts my view is that we all care deeply about Arsenal and our hope attempts to overcome our reason. Even though I know we are a spent force I hope we pull off some kind of miracle. When we put in a performance like Stoke at this stage reason kicks in, when we win we revert to deluded hope. I and most on this site knew the score once we failed to sign a striker and maybe one or two others in the summer but again we hope.

  125. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Mar 03, 2014, 16:50 #46901

    I'm afraid that the manager was always going to torpedo us. Earlier in the season Stoke City were alleged to have complained to the FA that Flamini had threated their players physically if they didn't lay off Jack Wilshire. What then, can explain the manager's failure to take Flamini to this game ? Was he injured or suspended? It doesn't appear so. Was he not taken because Wenger feared his getting sent off for more important games? Did he not wish to offend Stoke City? Assuming that Flamini was available and Wenger knew that he had issued serious threats if Stoke dared to attack our players, and given that Stoke actually did physically intimidate our players, and given that it is a fair assumption that they would not have done so had Flamini been there, can one get any clearer evidence of Arsene Wenger's absolute negligence? He has clearly convinced himself that Arteta will do in these games. Well he won't do. He wouldn't do in the previous pointless seasons in which he has played and he won't ever do in them. Has it occurred to anyone that being sent out to bat without a bat is just a tad demoralising? We cannot win with the moron in charge. Most of us know it, the team certainly knows it. He is a pointless hopeless hapless moron and he is destroying our club. I have worked not one day in football but even I can see that when you go away to Stoke City, Flamini is the first name on the team sheet. Wenger is determined not to win. I don't mean that he doesn't wish to win. I mean that he cannot be diverted for a season's length from the losing strategies and options that he has hitherto employed. Our last chance of a trophy hangs on a game to be played on Saturday 8th March. Watch him select a team that has the least chance of winning. Just to show that he is in charge.

  126. Ron

    Mar 03, 2014, 16:34 #46900

    SKG - Hi mate. I was thinking not just the ridicule of the Stokies but of our own too. Its all well and good some of doubting him now after so many years and suggesting change, but the longer it runs, the fan cat calls and fan jeering of him will get louder as will the tone of the press and media. AW doesnt (in my view) deserve any of that. I dont do many home games now, but the booing and such like is embarrassing i think, esp when it happens at half time!

  127. frankytheswede

    Mar 03, 2014, 16:27 #46899

    i cant remember the last time we had a run of big games like we have ahead of us now, massive games that will shape the future of our club. im really excited to be honest, read into that what you will. I mean wenger has to win a trophy this season right,can anyone see him staying if we dont. I cant, i dont think the board have the balls to give a manager a new contract after 9 years of no trophys not at this club. we are not playing very well are we and if things dont go well man i cant stop thinking about how the fans will be in the stands. im not tempting fate and its the last thing i want but if we dont get a result against everton in the cup man munich away they will tear us a new one and than spuds and chelsea away well the way we are playing i cant see us getting much out of those games and than city at home and away to everton, i have hope but im at the matches guys the way we are playing ?

  128. Ron

    Mar 03, 2014, 16:22 #46898

    Bard - to reinforce your point, i hope we never have a coach that 'accepts losing gracefully' either. Yes, have a coach that gives other teams credit and doesnt go off on one every loss, but being blase about defeat, is ackowledging defeat in itself before a team has even started. Maybe Westie had this in mind? Wenger has always been a poor loser and rarely offers up any credit to the opposition. The excuse seeking sucked big time for me years ago. Its not surprising we ve had years of players who seem untouched by losing. Our coach will always give them an excuse to explain the defeat. Its never him or them is it.So mind numbingly sickening. Its not just Wenger, there are loads of others. Its why ive turned off from the game largely.

  129. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 03, 2014, 16:16 #46897

    Spot on Ron about Wenger not having to go with the sound of the cavemen from Stoke ringing in his ears. I always felt that he should have had one season at The Em*r*tes and left the club with his huge legacy intact. Now his "pretty boy" style of football gets trashed every season at about this time, I refer to it as "the spring slide" For some inexplicable reason Arsene wants to win big with a system of play that is so so easy to nullify and breakdown. When before, all his success was built on big physical players merged with great talent. He deserves to leave us in credit but another season as per the last eight and all his great early work will be forgotten. It is a great shame but he really has lost his way and dare I say that it is he who has lost his mental strength. His biggest weakness is the trust he puts in players who are either not good enough or physically not fit enough.

  130. Westie's lost sheepskin

    Mar 03, 2014, 16:07 #46896

    Clockender It's a lot more than five million mate!

  131. DW Thomas

    Mar 03, 2014, 16:04 #46895

    Couple things. Interesting how we see way more responses after a loss than a win. I interpret that as we all feel fed up with the status of the club and the way its seems the wheels are coming off, AGAIN! Maybe what Arsene, the players, and the club need is a real kick up the arse! The owners should be telling Arsene that only winning something can protect his job. Or at the least coming very, very, very close. Wenger's body language looks like a man who is devoid of ideas. Not that I want him to headbutt a Stoke player, but maybe a little more yelling at his own pampered players. Our team was embarrassing how we reacted to Stoke's style of play. The only player we have to respond with some bottle of his own was on the bench. How is it that no one else has that spirit? I think the players reflect the manager and enough is enough. The team and man in charge need direct instruction from the owners/board to toughen up, prepare for each game as its their last, and FIGHT! This club has the potential to be bigger than dare I say Man United globally. Our reputation is already very good, but we could be more. Not just to fill the coffers, but as a team that plays great, entertaining football, with steel and style, AND wins things! The whole Suarez debacle makes us look even worse. We wanted him. Why not make an offer he and them couldn't refuse? No, we offer one pound over. And make no mistake he would have helped to win us the league. A man of little scruples it seems, at least on the pitch, but he is a winner and makes things happen for Liverpool. Lastly, all the banging on a out how Walcott and/or Ramsey were our saviors this year and we were on the way to big things till they got injured rings false to me. Walcott too inconsistent, injury prone and Ramsey, despite his great start, was not guaranteed to finish the second half as he started the first. How is it we were relying on those two anyway? Even Ozil seems to be turning into the new Arshavin.

  132. Clockender1

    Mar 03, 2014, 15:37 #46894

    what title challenge ? - we had a run of games against poor sides whilst Chelsea and City were finding their feet. As soon as we came up against decent sides we fell apart. One win against the top five last year, two wins this year. Does anyone truly believe we'll beat Chelsea or City ? - We left Highbury, pay the highest ticket prices in football and Arsene Wenger gets paid 5 million a year for this ???? Its an utter disgrace.

  133. Bard

    Mar 03, 2014, 14:48 #46893

    Westie; I don't think the responses on here are a knee jerk as a result of being bad losers. I admit 8 years of losing has taken its toll on me. Its a complex of issues the most important one is accountability. There currently is none. Secondly we're being lied to. Those p*** me off for starters. They bad loser tag is too shallow.

  134. Ron

    Mar 03, 2014, 14:44 #46892

    Old Timer - I think Chris Dee isnt far wrong. Body language tells much i always think and the last 2 years at least have given many an indication that AW is seeing out time. Hes very tired in my view. Losses dont seem to penetrate him so much these days. His walk alog the touch line at full time and facial expression did suggest that the loss, wasnt so bad. Its as if it was perhaps a tipping point where the expectations were flushed away, giving relief and sanctuary. Quite sad to see i thought. He may go and i think he will and should, but not to go with rude ridicule ringing in his ears as often happens with long term incumbents of many posts, not just in football. Bill Shankly had it right, he felt he d given his Club the blueprint and model, then just packed it in, leaving the baton to others hence hes still lauded as the legend he truly was. Arsene s risking much more than just going trophyless if he stays beyond the seasons end i feel.

  135. WHL87

    Mar 03, 2014, 14:37 #46891

    Big Dave - thanks. At least that made me smile. Strange team selection and, frankly, a pretty lamentable display all round did not help but that c**t Adams should have gone and it wasn't a penalty. The ref couldn't wait to give it. Up the Arse.

  136. Old Timer

    Mar 03, 2014, 14:30 #46890

    Don't seem to be covering ourselves in glory off the pitch either. Just got an email from the club flogging memorabilia addressed to 'Dear First Name'. Oh well, plenty of scope for improvement both ways.

  137. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 03, 2014, 14:23 #46889

    Ron, yes it's about time the cup snobbery was done away with and i think we've been saying that for quite a while. Pellegrini and the blue manc players, and all their fans certainly didn't look like the Capitol one Cup was beneath them yesterday.

  138. Ron

    Mar 03, 2014, 14:17 #46888

    Westie - Ive got Aintree coming up soon. Got a ticket - first time since about 1990 ish!! Uusal guess work for me based on liking the horses name etc will apply i suppose mate!!Hopefully that Stoke score will prompt the team to play with a bit of freedom now till the end, whatever it brings. Im sure they (Wenger in particular) still see 'Stoke away' as the equivalent of collective root canal surgery. Ive no idea why. Theyre nothing like they were 3-4 years back and Hughes in fairness (horrible little sod he is)does get his teams playing to a higher level than a good many english coaches do. Your bet on the loss wasnt a wild punt was it. It was well considered wisdom really.

  139. Tony Evans

    Mar 03, 2014, 14:16 #46887

    Ron - Completely agree with your comments on the FA Cup. It's the only one left now that we can realistically win and has been for some while now. Whether Wenger will acknowledge that fact is debatable and we may yet see him rest players against Everton because of his obsession with the CL - even though it is now even more of a completely lost cause. Lose the next league match and we are in the usual battle for 4th - I just wish it was a battle against some other team than our useless neighbours - because then I wouldn't care if we finished 5th. What has finishing 4th done for us apart from keeping Wenger is his job - so he can embark on yet another Ground-hog season.

  140. Chris

    Mar 03, 2014, 14:03 #46886

    Fair play, we're all disappointed about the result on Saturday but you really do have to wonder about the motivations of folk who jump up and down assuming that we are now going to plummet to a position outside the top four (as they supposedly always knew we would) after a run of poor results and form. I hope some of you, especially the noxious FPGooner, will be equally quick to come back and point out how wrong they were if we end up putting in a creditable run to the end of the season.

  141. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 03, 2014, 14:03 #46885

    chris dee, good post and good point about emotions and expectations been neutered, there's certainly been a good job done from the club and manager along those lines alright, with the amount of fans that are quite happy to go along with failure every season plus the humiliations, and defeats such as Saturday and just sit on their hands when not applauding, and smile with the better luck next time attitude hoping things will change and it will all come good when it never does.

  142. JamesB

    Mar 03, 2014, 14:02 #46884

    Unlike a bear which hibernates in winter and comes out growling in spring, we shrink at the first glimmer of sun which makes us the mushrooms of the world. Wenger is Lord of All Mushrooms. He keeps us in the dark, feed us sh*t and at the first sign of light we collapse like the funghi we are. That Man has turned the Famous Arsenal into the Champignon Chanterelle's.

  143. Westlower

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:54 #46883

    @Ron, Thanks for the advice that I should stick to gambling. It's my way of life. Thankfully the greyhound Puppy Derby heats start today, Cheltenham next week, closely followed by the Flat at the end of March. It'll be refreshing to be in the company of positive minded people who love and enjoy their chosen sport. Racing people know how to lose gracefully. It's hard to detect too much of that on this site.

  144. The Terry and Ted Show

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:50 #46882

    You lot.

  145. jeff wright

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:39 #46881

    Westie, and I refer you to what MR. Henry said at the time ,not what hei s saying now. He said we value Suarez,taking account of what Cavil was sold for recently at55m . Henry is indulging in a bit of gloating and macho-man antics with his latest comments. Getting back to the buy out clause the 40m was just a minimum amount that Suarez could be sold for , and even that was not legally binding. If Ivan and co did not know that then they are in the wrong job. Personally I suspect that Suarez and his agent were just using us to get a better deal out of Henry with a new contract, in fact that is exactly what they did do. Even so Wenger should have called their bluff by offering 50m instead of making a mug out of himself with that silly one pound and no more offer. If it was all a p*ss-take then Wenger should just have offered 50p more ! No difference to the supposed forcing a sale malarkey claims, but hey at least it would have been obvious that it was a joke.

  146. Ron

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:34 #46880

    Westie - Without wanting to be rude, you ought to stick to gambling, if its your forte my freind. Contract law isnt for you. You cant possibly comment on the validity/non validity of the buy out clause with all due respect without seeing it .There are a million and one of them. The probablilty of the one re Saurez was that it did no more than 'activate a process' if a quid over the asking price bid was made. The process would have been one of the player being told of it without delay and for him to make represenations on it and then for the receiving Club to do more than give reasonable consideration to it and not to delay in doing so. There are so many, many ways that contracts retain the Clubs ultimate discretion on these matters. There are buy out clauses that do activate a Club having to sell though and theyre common with non league teams players contracts.No responsible contract lawyer in the PL would advise acceptance of any such clause. Sorry to burst your bubble, but youre not going to get your apologies. You ll get lots of stuff like FP Gooner has said to you though if you maintain your present wholly incorrect view. Do you seriously think LS and his advisers would have tolerated a breach of contract at that time? Arsenal couldnt have done anything as they werent a party to the Liv and LS contract. The bid by Arsenal was probably binding, but certainly not a deal making bid.

  147. Big Dave

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:32 #46879

    I'd like to see some folk on here go out and have to play roller ball against the Stoke Orcs with the ref just trying to please 27,000 people from middle earth.

  148. DJ

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:30 #46878

    I may have missed something but we didn't sign that nasty man Suarez in the Summer thank the Lord for that he would have sullied our good name. Instead we have that willing trier Giroud who would never do anything so squalid!!!

  149. jeff wright

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:22 #46877

    Terry,how can very predictable outcomes that occur every season produce knee-jerk reactions? You are obviously very angry that things have not turned out different this season for Arsene ,but do try and keep some perspective about it all.

  150. BADARSE

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:17 #46876

    FPGooner, are you any good at backward somersaults? I ask because your post began politely and courteously then began to become a little rude and personal, how odd! Incidentally I never found the post either puerile or unintelligent. I was informed by it. I am not an acronym either. AKB? Too convenient for your argument methinks. I do not believe Arsene knows best at all. I insist on being redefined...oh, and am not an old codger. I have found many decisions he has made over the years beguiling and irritating, even during the early years. He has failings, he is not a god; I haven't encountered anyone on this site who might qualify for that accolade. I sense you are frustrated, get in line and join the queue, but try not to bite the neck of the Arsenal fan standing in front of you.

  151. Ron

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:16 #46875

    For me, nothings changed really. We re playing for 3rd spot, possibly 4th though now, as was all we were going to ever do all season. Should concentrate on Everton now. The FAC is very important for a team like Arsenal. It traditionally always was a trophy that not only the top teams but also the lesser sides could win and Arsenal arent a truly top team. the Club should be best advised to cut out the 'Cup snobbery' its practiced for too many years and concentrate on giving its fans some thing to actually look forward too and enjoy. Well AW do so? Probably not, not while his hard on for the futile CL still stands. For me, the only relevance of the CL is the Club making sure it doesnt slip below 4th. The Teams form since the MC hammering is poor and the Spuds are still in the wing mirrors.

  152. Terry

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:10 #46874

    I'm surprised how a lot of the Wenger knockers are able to get their heads through their front doors in the morning, considering the vast amount of footballing knowledge they have stored away. Especially how in the majority of cases their views turn out to be nothing but hot air. It's always best to have your own thoughts on Arsenal issues which are well thought out and deeply researched, not just having knee jerk reactions to every Arsenal defeat and all coming out with the latest mind capturing illusion sent by the media. Pea-brained over reaction never did anybody any good.

  153. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:07 #46873

    W M G ASAP (MARCUS), they wouldn't even have thought about kicking the players you mention in the first place let alone tried it because unlike now, they would have known the consequences.

  154. DJ

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:06 #46872

    @KC: I agree do not want to let them get their grubby hands on the Champions League booty! However, would like to see if we finish fifth whether the board would make those Europa League non events part of our season tickets!!!

  155. Tony Evans

    Mar 03, 2014, 13:03 #46871

    Let's be honest - how many on this site have really believed that this season would be any different? We all hoped it would be (and I suppose it still could be) but how many of us have any real conviction? I suspect very few, such is the lack of faith most of have in the ability of the manager. Our squad is not big enough, up front we are nothing more than a joke, we still have an inexperienced keeper and some of the performances, like the one this weekend, are so bad as to be embarrassing. How many more years does Wenger need to rectify these issues? He has had more than enough chances and it is high time he had the decency to resign, or the board had the balls to make the decision for him.

  156. FPGooner

    Mar 03, 2014, 12:53 #46870

    I greatly admire most of the guys who post on here; most of the posts are objective, eloquently written and thought-provoking and then there are the posts such as post #49822 from Westlower. He clearly has no idea how business is conducted between two individuals or two companies. If I, AFC, wish to purchase a commodity from LFC and was serious about purchasing this commodity, I do not start proceedings by insulting them by engaging in a publicity stunt. I stand to gain nothing. LFC are under no obligation to sell the commodity to me for any amount, £40 million plus a quid, £100 million plus a bag of carrots etc. This was made clear at the time, so whatever John Henry has to say now, is irrelevant. So, whatever point you are seeking to make, Westlower, is puzzling. I applaud you Westlower for not having the awareness to see along with the rest of us earlier in the season, when we were top, that it was a false dawn and normal service would be resumed and we would slide down into our customary 4th (possibly lower this season). You're like the guy on the Titanic running around like a lunatic shouting at people for panicking and then standing on the tip of the ship sticking out of the water, demanding an apology because according to you, all is well and we're on top. I have lost some of my objectivity when it comes to Wenger. I cannot stand hearing what he has to say, whether it is to laud Sanogo or Bendtner or his reasons why we don't need a striker etc. I cannot bear to listen to his £7.5 million a year drivel because of what he has done to my club and every day he stays, he robs us of having a competent manager who could be turning our club around. To those who inanely say 'How can you sack him? Who would you replace him with?' There are no shortage of managers who could do considerably better than Wenger has performed. Unfortunately for the fans, he is performing well for the owners and shareholders. For the fans, he is performing dismally, unless you are an apologist for him. But even for AKBs, these are dark days, as we enter a 9th year without winning a bean. This is the only club I have supported and will support and if you are an AKB, at least put forward comments that are reasonably intelligent and not the usual purile 'Go and support someone else if you are not happy here' because that just reminds me of the comments made by the senile old codger who currently 'manages' the club.

  157. WENGER OUT

    Mar 03, 2014, 12:46 #46869

    Terry - Yes and Wenger finished 16 points behind a now 7th placed Manchester United, while Klopp reached the CL final. Arsenal can give Klopp the assets he needs to challenge the richer clubs as he did in his earlier days at Dortmund when he won back to back Bundesliga titles playing some of the best footie in Europe.

  158. jeff wright

    Mar 03, 2014, 12:40 #46868

    Westie, these so called buy out clauses in players contracts are not legally binding in law and are in reality worthless. Everyone knows this ,so Wenger's silly offer of a pound over the non-existent legally 40m buy out clause was always doomed to fail . If he had made an offer at that time of 50m then this might have got Suarez jumping up and down like a demented Chimp at a tea party demanding that he be allowed to join us, instead though Wenger made clear that he did not value Suarez at that sort of price,well he wouldn't would he .This would hardly have appealed to Suarez's ego and it is hardly any surprise that he decided not to try and force a move from Anfield. Wenger's reticence to pay more for Suarez than what he thought he is worth could prove costly for us.If it has not already done so.

  159. Westlower

    Mar 03, 2014, 12:37 #46867

    @Bard, I'm not out to score Brownie points, I attempt to lighten the gloom & despondency that we get bombarded with. The team perform better without all the added pressure of supporters anxiety & doubts. Yes, I am a realist, I earn a living betting on my sound judgement, and can see what you pessimists see but life doesn't stand still on the snap shot that suits. I won a lot of money on Saturday backing Stoke at 5/1 (my biggest win of the season), I know how football works in the UK after 50+ years of watching. For those of you upset at me backing against AFC I also backed us to win in running 7/1 when 0-1 down. My priority is to make a profit on the game. The appointment of the ref was a factor in my betting strategy. I'll avoid calling him bent, dishonest or weak is probably nearer the mark. We were always going to get kicked off the park, courtesy of a gutless ref & Mark Hughes tactics. Come Saturday afternoon we may be walking away from the Emirates smiling once again. Some Gooners are so happy to put the boot in and I make no apologies for defending my club. My style of grammar also seems to annoy you but English was never my strong suit so apologies if I offend. There are so many good things about AFC that continue to make me proud to be a Gooner. Too much focus & energy is placed on AW being replaced. I content myself that'll he walk when he see's fit and that's fine by me. When eventually we do slip from the top 4, people may have cause to reflect that they helped open the door for his departure.

  160. D7UTNP

    Mar 03, 2014, 12:35 #46866

    The choice is whether to stick or twist. Stick with a tried and tested manager who guarantees the club is run in the right way, on a sound financial footing and qualifies for the Champions League. However, can also no longer compete for the title and whose tactics seem increasingly naïve. Or twist and appoint a new guy who may breathe fresh impetus into the club and see us competing at top table once again. Equally who may what’s known as ‘Do a Moyes’ and see us tumble down the table and end up in mid table mediocrity after spending the family silver. In my opinion at the end of the season we should TWIST!

  161. KC

    Mar 03, 2014, 12:31 #46865

    @DJ Worst result on Saturday will be a spuds win. In fact if they were to win you would have to say they would be favourites to get 4th. But once again this is how our season could end up fighting for 4th to enter a competition we can not win but can make money. But I don't want them above us!

  162. Terry

    Mar 03, 2014, 12:19 #46864

    WENGER OUT. You mention Klopp the great saviour a man who has already in February conceded the German title and sits 21 points behind Bayern. Comes across in his interviews as a giggling imbecile.

  163. BADARSE

    Mar 03, 2014, 12:19 #46863

    That is interesting westlower. I never took any notice of the many diatribes aimed at Arsene for 'insulting' Liverpool over that £1. I thought it was either wrongly reported or a faux pas. Of course so many lined up to high light the failings of AW in the matter. Of course these people make me feel quite inadequate as they must never make errors in life, unlike myself who make many. Not quite time for us two to man the barricades but a few are making ready their muskets.

  164. Bard

    Mar 03, 2014, 11:55 #46862

    Westie: the Suarez debate is not whether or not we met the exact release clause but the fact that we didn't buy him. Sometimes your posts seems as though you get points for being good. I know you're the ultimate optimist but even you must see the writing is on the wall now.

  165. jeff wright

    Mar 03, 2014, 11:41 #46861

    Terry,I have never mentioned anyone to replace Wenger and if I had then Moyes would not be that man. Personally I believe that the problems at AFC start with the owner and his son and the posse of American business execs who know nothing about football that they employ . We need a restructuring of our wage bill with the amount that it now stands at we should have a better striker than Giroud and not be paying wages to clowns like Bendtner . Wenger’s made a mess of things because no one holds him accountable and Stan and co are happy with the CL money every season. That though seems to be about as far as their ambitions go. As for whether or not Suarez dived against Southampton tbh I couldn’t care less it’s hardly something that I ,unlike yourself, sit brooding over

  166. Matthew Bazell

    Mar 03, 2014, 11:36 #46860

    Terry what is it with fans like you - in that if you disagree with someone's point you tell them to go and follow someone else. Who are you to claim the club for your opinion only. Don;t agree with Terry - go and support someone else!

  167. DJ

    Mar 03, 2014, 11:34 #46859

    What result do people want on Saturday between our two London rivals? Don't wish to be downcast on our title chances but I would prefer a draw or a Chelsea win as I have a feeling we could be the ones being chased down this season?

  168. WENGER OUT

    Mar 03, 2014, 11:29 #46858

    Hi TONY or Terry or Trev! Klopp would be ideal, although I gather he intends to see out his contract, which is admirable in its way, but he must be getting frustrated with the lack of competition in the German league and the fact that he can't keep any of his players from joining Bayern - much of it I imagine is down to Dortmund being like a 3rd world country compared to the Munich, which really is lovely (I have lived there during my miserable non-life to date). Martinez would be my second choice, an excellent young manager, who much like Arteta before him, would find it very difficult to turn down the opportunity... but what's that I hear you cry, "he got Wigan warriors relegated"? That is true, but then he was working in a small rugby town with next to no resources AND he's won more trophies than Wenger in the last 8 years.

  169. jeff wright

    Mar 03, 2014, 11:26 #46857

    DJ, the three stooges on MOTD are al ex-players so they don't fit into ,Tom and Terry's paranoid rants. Hanson has been critical of Liverpool this season - and still appears to be sceptical of their alleged title pretensions. I had to smile at Keown's comments last night on MOTD2, after Rosicky's goal v Sunderland was voted MOTD goal of the month ,saying it was a great goal even though he was running around mannequins !

  170. TONY

    Mar 03, 2014, 11:15 #46856

    Jeff Wright, Notice what a huge fuss the media made about the penalty that Suarez should have had against us (by the way he dived again against Soton), but so little is mentioned of Stoke's shenanigans against us. WENGER OUT. Hi it's your mate Tone telling you to get a life who would you suggest should replace Wenger, weren't you one of those in favour of Moyes earlier.

  171. Westlower

    Mar 03, 2014, 10:59 #46855

    John Henry has finally admitted that Suarez did indeed have a £40m buyout clause in his contract. He also stated that he realised contracts mean very little in England & decided not to honour the written agreement. England a dishonest third world country - surely not! So it transpires AFC were spot on in offering £1 over the release cause and were obviously correctly advised by Suarez's agent. How the media & some Gooners turned AFC into a laughing stock over the affair. Apologies in your own good time please.

  172. DJ

    Mar 03, 2014, 10:54 #46854

    Walcott got injured at the beginning of January and was ruled out for the season. We had the whole month to get a replacement to give us some much needed pace up front. We got nothing and now play with 4/5 central/similar midfielders every game. The Ox should start every game he must be fresh as he missed the first six months yet he is over looked time and again. On a separate note I don't usually buy the anti-Arsenal thing but I though the glee Hansen, Lineker and Savage showed over our demise on MOTD was a little OTT!

  173. WENGER OUT

    Mar 03, 2014, 10:44 #46853

    Congratulations Ted, you win the award for the most deluded commenter on this thread! There is a key difference between knocking Arsenal and knocking Arsene, I suggest you learn it. Has Wenger taken to cloning idiots to spread nonsense about how anyone who doesn't love Wenger is anti-Arsenal, calling them all names beginning with 'T' - Terry, Trev, Ted.... I look forward to hearing from Tony.

  174. jeff wright

    Mar 03, 2014, 10:42 #46852

    Ted, your views are the usual paranoid type ones that you always resort to using, when your optimistic predictions have yet again turned out to be just another illusion. Do you really believe that referees and the media actually care what Arsenal supporters think ? If you do then you really do have problems. You are scrapping the bottom of the barrel now in your desperation to blame some of our supporters for Wenger's failures. All sides at various times get bad calls off referees and linesmen .Rodger's was at claiming Liverpool were getting them a few weeks ago . They probably were but this is down to incompetence rather than any conspiracy theories. The ref on Saturday was no better, or worse, than what you see in most games. It's only a short time ago that Webb was being blamed for doing us favours in a game. The Charlie Adam incident when he stepped on Giroud's leg after he had gone to ground as though shot by a siper, for the umpteeemth time at the slightest contact, was a sly foul by the odious jock who made it appear accidental , and those handball calls are given or not given all the time. A 0-0 draw was the best we could have hoped for anyway and in the greater scheme of things this would not have been good enough anyway. Also the ref and media and anti-Wenger supporters were not to blame for us not having a single shot on goal in the second half. Or for our players looking as though they had just met up before the match in a pub a view further enhanced when Sanago wandered on and haplessly skied the only chance we did have way over the bar displaying a lack of technique that made big Bendy's look world class by comparison . Wenger signed Sanag and not the ref.

  175. Terry

    Mar 03, 2014, 10:33 #46851

    MARCUS. What you are saying is that unless you have a team of Neanderthals who are as hard as nails, love playing hoof ball and are only prepared to play dirty, there is no possible way of winning the Premiership. You mention ex Arsenal players who you say had bottle, so why didn't we win the title every season with such illustrious players playing for us. You say Barca would struggle to win the Premiership, that alone tells me that there is something seriously wrong with the way the Premier league is handled. Maybe you should change allegiance and go watch the 19th Century West Ham style football or the spuds of the north Stoke Orcs.

  176. John A

    Mar 03, 2014, 10:29 #46850

    Agree with Ianmac. I think we all know the issues they have been aired enough times. Yes, if Arsene goes the club may dip but I suspect Mr Usmanov will step in at some stage to place the club on, at the least a level footing financially as CIty and Chelsea. You win trophies by having the best players -simples. I go to games currently in the hope of winning that one game but never with any expectations of a trophy success,that would be naive. As an aside, the Bergkamp statue is ridiculous to look at, the ceremony was poorly managed. You could not hear the speeches or see Denis unless up close. Get it right next time Arsenal.

  177. underacheiver

    Mar 03, 2014, 10:05 #46848

    Nothing convenient about blaming it on Arsene Wenger, BADARSE. We have seen these type of limp, wimpish displays for many years now and the only common denominator is the manager. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to come to the conclusion that he is the problem.

  178. chris dee

    Mar 03, 2014, 9:32 #46846

    The worst part of this is that we as supporters,are not greatly surprised or raging with anger.The last eight years have almost neutered our emotions and expectations and we take all the disappointments with shrug of the shoulders. As for the Stoke result how many years are we gonna hear we were outfought and kicked out of our stride at their stadium without addressing the problem? But Arsene has a get out of jail card ,the FA Cup. We are three games from winning the Cup but would we be surprised if Everton packed out the midfield and defence and caught us on the break and won 1-0?Nah! Arsene has still not signed the new contract and I firmly believe if nothing is won this year he'll walk.

  179. Ted

    Mar 03, 2014, 9:21 #46845

    Because we have loads of negative biting fans who are so influenced by the media, Arsenal are always perceived in a far more negative light in this country than the other top sides and our players are always given a worse ride than many of the other sides players which leads to extra pressure on them to perform well. Also the lets knock Arsenal approach by the less loyal section of our fan base breeds a disdain towards Arsenal by match officials making it easy to make bad calls against us 'If their own fans aren't on their side why should we bother' However Arsenal have always been looked upon abroad by people with no agenda's in a far more positive light by those who judge each team for what they see. Which is why Arsenal's foreign players are in demand to play for their countries unlike the English Arsenal stars who always struggle because of the negative reactions of many Arsenal fans and the way we're portrayed in this country.

  180. FFP: yer 'avin a larf

    Mar 03, 2014, 9:15 #46844

    So, another big game against a team with whom we have "history" and another abject failure. There is something very wrong mentally with this team which Wenger clearly cannot sort out, and for that reason alone. he should not accept that new contract. Ah yes I the AKB's cry, but who would replace him? We would go into transition - look at United! 4th place is a real achievement as the top players (that's the mythical "top top quality" we hear so much about) only want teams in the Champions league. Now I could accept that last point if we were more decisive in transfer dealings. Instead we muddle through window after window and when the proverbial chickens come home to roost (as they currently are) we get the usual Gazidis twaddle about "disappointments" and "learning lessons". And then we repeat. It all points to the question, what was the point in leaving Highbury if we all we are doing it banking the revenue. "plastic fan" will the AKB's shout, "we are only 4 points off top" they will add. We might as well be 40 points off top, because this team is not mentally capable of winning and the manager is not capable (or refuses to acknowledge - which on i'm not sure) of dealing with the situation. We are a mere 6 points clear of THEM, with our having a supposed good season, and them supposedly imploding. We also have the toughest run-in of the current top 5. There were twitter rumours yesterday that Wenger would not accept a new contract. As much as it genuinely pains me to admit it, I hope they are more than rumours.

  181. Unchives

    Mar 03, 2014, 8:21 #46843

    All so predictable and avoidable. Gazidis is preparing his apologetic speech to the gutless AST. Hear we go Ivan I will start you off.....I'm as disappointed in the way the season panned out as the fans,....blah...blah, we've highlighted our mistakes and we will endeavour to copy them for next season,so please feel free to remember this speech so I do not have to turn up next season!The season ticket renewals are due by 1st April....no its not April Fool, that's when our seasons has ended....don't forget to add the extra 3% and say thank-you to Arsene for rewarding the fans with another back-to the future contract.

  182. BADARSE

    Mar 03, 2014, 8:11 #46842

    Morning gentlemen. Some amazingly good posts-very impressive, more so than our performance on Saturday. But don't go over the top guys, if you do often the machine guns take you out. It was a spiritless defeat it's true; don't we al suffer in the same way? I hope the players feel it too. Much wrong with our Arsenal, but much right also. Stay objective, don't let blind passion cloud he issue. We are not the best squad in the PL and realistically are fighting against the odds. Some players have gone off the boil, it happens. Blame it on Arsene Wenger if it makes you feel more secure. I am sure his approach could be instrumental in many matters, but it is too convenient to look for the ready-made scapegoat in any manager. Stay with it; don't shame yourselves. Forward Arsenal-onto the next game.

  183. Westlower

    Mar 03, 2014, 7:44 #46841

    @Referee, Totally agree with your comment. No one in the media pressing for Mike Jones to miss future games as punishment for his wonk eyed officiating. Thuggery is allowed to replace football when it suits the refs agenda! What is it with refs from the North West and AFC? n.b. This is not an excuse for our lamentable attacking display. At least our defenders showed some balls!

  184. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Mar 03, 2014, 6:51 #46839

    @Simon (9:34am 2nd Mar 2014), I here what you say about being embarrassed by the away fans celebrating at Newcastle for finishing fourth. I'd like to think they were celebrating finishing a point and a place ahead of the Spurts. Whichever is the truth, both represent an accepted decline in standard.

  185. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Mar 03, 2014, 5:08 #46838

    WELL,WELL. THE USUAL COLLAPSE HAS BEGUN SMH. WHAT IN THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE SO CALLED LE PROFESSOR?? THE MAN WHO HAS A ECONOMIC DEGREE LOOL. THIS MAN IS A DISGRACE. IT WAS GLARINGLY OBVIOUS WE NEEDED A STRIKER IN JANUARY BUT NOPE HE DID NOT BUY ONE SMH. GIROUD IS SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR A TEAM THAT HAS AMBITIONS OF WINING THE PL. HE CAN NOT HIT A BARN DOOR WITH A BANJO. HE WOULD NOT START FOR ANY OF THE CURRENT TOP 8 LET ALONE TOP 4. I ALWAYS SAID THAT IF WE ARE STILL IN THE LEAD GOING INTO JANUARY THAN WE NEED TO BUY A STRIKER, BUT THE THE SO CALLED LE PROFESSOR THOUGHT GIROUD, SANAGOO AND THE GREAT DANE WERE GOOD ENOUGH TO LEAD THE CHARGE LOOOL. I'M SORRY BUT THIS MAN WHO I HAVE ZERO RESPECT FOR ANYMORE AS HE HAS BEEN ABLE TO DUPE ALOT OF SO CALLED ARSENAL FC FANS NOT ARSENE WENGER FC FANS INTO BELIEVING WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR THE LAST 9 YEARS IS GOOD. THIS TEAM IS FULL OF WHOOSIES AND BOTTLERS. NO GUTS, NO FIGHTING SPIRIT NOTHING AND FOR ME THAT IS A DAMMING REFLECTION ON THE WHINNY ONE LE PROFESSOR. HE INSTILLS THAT WHINNY ATTITUDE INTO THE PLAYERS WHERE THEY BELIEVE THE WORLD IS AGAINST THEM AND ANY TOUCH IS A FOWL. HE MUST HAVE KNOWN AND SO SHOULD HAVE THE PLAYERS THAT STOKE WOULD PLAY A CERTAIN WAY AND TRY AND ROUGH THEM UP LOOOL. THERE GAME PLAN HAS NOT CHANGED ALL OF A SUDDEN BUT NOPE HE DID NOT AS USUAL PREPARE THEM FOR THE BATTLE. I JUST READ A ARTICLE WHERE NZONI GAVE A INTERVIEW ABOUT THE MATCH BASICALLY SAYING THEY KNEW ARSENAL WOULD TRY PLAY THEIR TOUCH, TOUCH LA LIGA NONSENSE SO THEY DECIDED FROM THE GET GO TO "KICK THEM UP". THAT SUMS UP ARSENAL IN A WAY WELL THIS GENERATION OF ARSENAL PLAYERS AS THE SAME THING HAPPENED IN 2011 WITH A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TEAM LOL. DO YOU THINK NZONI OR ADAMS COULD KICK UP VIERIA?? LOOOOOOOOL, DO YOU THINK THEY COULD KICK UP PARLOUR??, DO YOU THINK THEY COULD KICK UP KEOWN??, DO YOU THINK THEY COULD KICK UP GILBERTO SILVA?? THE ANSWER IS A RESOUNDING NO. THAT TEAM HAD A FIGHTING SPIRIT A NEVER SAY DIE ATTITUDE. THIS TEAM IS FULL OF COWARDS WHO ENJOY COLLECTING THEIR PAY PACKETS EVERY MONTH SMH. NO GUTS, NO BACKBONE LITTLE SCHOOL CHILDREN. WHY DOES WENGER BELIEVE LA LIGA STYLE FOOTBALL CAN WORK IN THE PREM?? IT CAN NOT?? I BET MY BOTTOM DOLLAR THAT IF BARAC WHERE IN THE PL THEY WOULD STRUGGLE. AS TEAMS WOULD JUST ROUGH THEM UP. DO YOU THINK TEAMS WOULD ALLOW MESSI TO MAKE THOSE RUNS LOOL. THAT IS WHY THE SPANISH MEDIA WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE REF CHOICE FOR THE CITY MATCH AS THEY THOUGHT HE WOULD A REF THAT WOULD LET NIGGLES, LITTLE TOUCHES OR PULLING OF THE SHIRT BASICALLY A PL TYPE REF. THEY WORRIED AS THEY NO THEY CAN NOT COPE WITH A PHYSICAL TYPE OF GAME AS IT DOES NOT WORK IN THE PREM. ALL THREE OF WNEGER TEAMS THAT WON THE PREM WHERE NOT TOUCHY, TOUCHY TYPE TEAMS THEY COULD PASS THE BALL AND KEEP IT OF COURSE BUT THEY WHERE MORE LIKE THE CURRENT BAYERN TEAM IN TERMS OF POWER WITH TECHNIQUE AND PUSH OVERS. I SAID BACK IN 2009 ARSENAL WILL NEVER WIN NOTHING UNDER WENGER AND I STAND BY THAT UNFORTUNATELY. HE IS NOW A DINOSAUR WHO IS STUCK IN HES OLD WAYS. HE HAS TO GO FOR ME. THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO NOT BUY A STRIKER JACKSON MARTINZ SAID COME GET ME BASICALLY BY SAYING HE SUPPORTS ARSENAL SMH. IT WAS A COME GET ME CALL. THE MAN IS JUST DELUDED IF THINKS GIROUD IS A PREM WINNING STRIKER SMH.

  186. Referee

    Mar 02, 2014, 23:17 #46836

    It is to Football’s advantage and all participants, to be properly protected from the Orcs and other knuckle-draggers in amateur and professional Football. Any official that is afraid to punish serious foul play for whatever reason is a coward.

  187. Greg Tyndall

    Mar 02, 2014, 23:03 #46835

    Who cares if we don't make fourth. More money for the club and no benefit to the fans. It would just mean another year of wenger cocking up the group stage so we inevitably get drawn against decent opposition again and get knocked out at the first real test. As for champions league attracting top players, we don't buy the top players (Ozil fell into our lap) so cl is irrelevant for this anyway. Perhaps if we really fail this year we can have a run at thing a la Liverpool next year. One thing is for sure I have no faith in wenger being able to manage fighting on all fronts, history has shown he messes up rotation when we have a few competitions to go for. On another subject giroud is by no means great but he is not terrible either. He would thrive with a nippier striker like Walcott to play off. I don't understand the current line up and I don't think the players do either, there is no point in playing wingers when we don't cross the ball. Instead we currently have one route to goal, a sequence of one twos which has come off to devastating effect twice this season, both at home and both against relegation fodder. We must have tried this about a hundred times against utd and vidic is no mug, he probably thought this is easy if this is all they've got. We currently have a good defence but offensively we have no pace, no power and one route to goal.

  188. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 02, 2014, 22:51 #46834

    K C, good post, but some of us have been saying that for seasons now, that's what it's all about OGL trying to prove everybody wrong by winning something with cheaper inferior players what that would have done for his ego is anybody's guess, but as we all know OGL will not be told or listen, because he's still trying.

  189. cyril

    Mar 02, 2014, 22:27 #46833

    Brewster, i said show me, no I said SHOW ME THE MONEY...

  190. frankytheswede

    Mar 02, 2014, 21:32 #46832

    get him out right now get him out get him out get him out lol we lost a game guys it happens we played like toasted crap yep but everyone just chill see how the season pans out. still not out of it, one thing that everyone has to agree on is that as fans we do overreact abit lol but yesterday we were terrible forget the result the performance was really bad in terms of fight and application of the way we want to play, thats something not many of us like to talk about but we do not play the beautiful free flowing technical game that people associate with arsenal, not anymore. its slap dash tip tap no real plan or idea most of the time im not gonna repeat what most of you guys have said i cant argue with you but i feel wenger has had long enough to build a successful team no trophies this season and youre out, thanks for everything but if you dont want to buy great players to have in youre squad than im sure there has to be another manager out there who would love to manage this club. van gaal de boer who knows we could get lucky if england have a bad world cup, i know its a big if, but maybe mr hodgson simples lol on a serious note the next month is massive for this club and us fans. everton at home in the cup need a response, win and we have a semi at wembly lose and well if we lose than we have to go to munich and we cannot afford to get battered there because it would just be tooo demoralising for the fans and the players, and after that it gets better lol BACK TO BACK away games at the spuds and than chelsea and than we welcome the all conquering city lol big big games ahead if things do go wrong oh my oh my the fans have got there hopes up this year though you know has everyone seen the guy crying after the game yesterday on arsenalfantv things go wrong the next month that guy put him on a suicide watch lol

  191. Munchbag hat

    Mar 02, 2014, 20:56 #46830

    We have so many players that the opposition love playing against, notably Wilshere. Strangely this focal point of lost possession hardly gets any criticism. Always writhing around, takes a 9 count every time he's tackled, and when he's up often perfecting the double tea-pot. Slow, weak, surely the obvious captain for this team. Hey ho.....

  192. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 02, 2014, 20:56 #46829

    CT gooner, yes the fans shoulder a huge cost alright and shoulder a lot more, especially putting up with this for the last eight seasons.

  193. Finsbury Joe

    Mar 02, 2014, 20:42 #46828

    Some great comments. Has everyone seen the table? Looks like the neighbours are about to gate crash the top four. Especially when you see the run in. Will another team this season...Swith a lesser net transfer spend, a much smaller wages bill, with a rookie manager claiming a place in the champions league ahead of wenger be his greatest.....and final humiliation? Be sure to let him have it as he crumbles over the next ten games. Trouble is when he has to appoint a new manager, someone will need to explain how the sport works to Ivan Gazidis and co, unless you want the attempted appointment of Stuart Lancaster or Andy Flower

  194. Stevesam

    Mar 02, 2014, 20:21 #46826

    @Gooner Ron – What has happened to Jack ? Shall AW be capable of restoring him to former glory or shall he follow the Rambo example of being overplayed, worn out and become injury prone. Another Diaby ! It did not take a genius to give Rambo a new contract, reward for playing out of position for most of last season and a leader who never hides. The goals this season are a bonus.

  195. nas

    Mar 02, 2014, 20:00 #46825

    you've said it all really. we lost the league on january 31st when arsene refused to strengthen. there's no point crying over spilt milk now. for those of you that stand by wenger rain and shine, u do realise that its possible to spport the team while not supporting the manager right? in fact, the only way to supposr the team right now is by calling for wenger'sm head. cos thats the only way this team can move ahead. I don't wanna be pessimistic but i am not entirely certain we willl even make fourth place. i don't even wanna think about the fa cup just yet. no point setting myself up for heart break

  196. EborGooner

    Mar 02, 2014, 19:54 #46824

    Agree with many of the comments here. I hate it when Arsenal lose, but it happens in sport. What hurts more is the lack of spirit, fight, determination etc in so many of the big games. Over the last few years I have gone from a feeling of expectation for any game with a challenge to a resignation that we will probably lose. And we do (let's be honest we were EXTREMELY lucky against Liverpool in the cup) and therefore I just don't feel the pain like I used to, nor do I get too carried away when we have a run of decent results. That's what the last few years have done to a lifelong Gooner like me. I believe OGL has been fantastic for our club but we need a change to move forward. I really, really hope I'm wrong but I suspect our season will whimper away again to a battle for fourth and no silverware. Come on Arsenal, make me feel that "butterflies in the stomach" anticipation that comes from a genuine expectation of winning something! COYG!

  197. 5th place is coming

    Mar 02, 2014, 19:49 #46823

    we all knew we weren't the best team in the league. we wondered for a while if we were the 2nd best team, we then came to realize we might be the 3rd. but Liverpool have more goalscorer options so we now think we are the 4th best team. problem is we will again fight with spurs and everton to try to cling onto 4th and it will go to last game of season if we are lucky

  198. allybear

    Mar 02, 2014, 19:37 #46822

    Good article Kev and i agree with many of your points. However the defeat didnt surprise me as Wenger never learns,Stoke have been doing this to us for years just as you mentioned Bolton used to do. Recent Arsenal teams can be easily upset&outmuscled. I have said many times that the problem is not just up front,its really a change of manager thats needed. AW has had more than enough time and is extremely lucky to be still in a job,not that he needs the money! The board should man up and sack him because he will never leave.

  199. don froth

    Mar 02, 2014, 19:02 #46821

    I'd like to know Terry's opinion on how we go up there season after season and make an embarrassment of ourselves? Are Stoke just lucky?

  200. KC

    Mar 02, 2014, 18:59 #46820

    To all, I will take no pleasure when Wenger goes just a realisation it had to happen. It's strange I once dreaded the day he would not be our manager after all he gave us so much. Its sad he has changed, in the early days he bought and bought wisely, he strengthened where required we even had players like Edu who was not a first choice but a superb player. He got rid of all the dross and I thought fantastic. But now I do not have faith he will spend wisely if he spent the cash. My season ticket costs a small fortune which I do not mind paying all I ask in return is the club do everthing in its power to make us the very best we can be, right now it's not happening. The ironic side of this is we could be so powerful we have a fantastic fan base a stadium to die for , London based, with the right leadership both on and off field we could be a world leading club but to do that you require a will to be the best not the fourth best. Sadly I don't think Wenger or the clubs board have the same desire I do and I bet they don't get as pissed off as I do when we lose. I don't expect success you have to earn it but I do wonder how long you can charge top dollar and not offer the same in return. We had such a great club but you feel they have become so corporate and their greed is feeding off loyal supporters.

  201. jjetplane

    Mar 02, 2014, 18:56 #46819

    Hear ya PerryG Bob and Freddie did a great line in general irritability which complimented the Keown approach. The only irritation now is watching this lot undercompete. Peace & can we have our club back mista?

  202. DW Thomas

    Mar 02, 2014, 18:16 #46816

    I concur Richard. I used to get so pumped up when Arsenal played, rooting for them to win, jumping for joy when we scored. My whole week was a depressing time when we lost to the likes of Stoke. Now that I have two young boys, my time is spent doing way more important other things. Like playing trains or building forts. Yet I still watch each game with hope and joy, mostly, though you may not know from my posts. Bought my 5 year old his first jersey for Christmas this year, them wanted to trash it after we lost to Liverpool and Bayern. Yet, I find deep down more than anything I want success for my team. For the club. It is a sad reality that most things now in life are driven by money, power, greed. For Arsene I think it's probably the power he loves, complete control over this club as long as the money is good. He wants to win and his way. I respect that, but, disagree that it will work. In life, one must adapt all the time. Change when needed. It is that fear of change or something akin to it that prevents him from finishing the puzzle. Why on earth else would he not buy a striker? Why buy a crocked KK? If he really does know best why has it been 9 years since we won a real trophy? If we win the title I will eat all my criticism, even if the other teams implode to gift us the title. I just feel let down too often by him and lately the players as well to feel confident of anything more than 4th.

  203. Bard

    Mar 02, 2014, 17:45 #46814

    KC; my sentiments exactly. I can't fathom what he's up to. His pronouncements get more and more obtuse. Sanogo is the new Anelka, really? What is the point of taking Kallstrom on loan when the bloke is injured. It seems to me to smell of a panic signing. How did he think we could go through a whole season with one half decent striker let alone win anything. He is putting on a good front but I fully expect his resignation at the end of the season. He's been terrific for us but its time to move on. Contrary to the views of the AKB's I will not celebrate it will be a sad day. But all dynasties come to an end and he is way past his best.

  204. Richard

    Mar 02, 2014, 17:38 #46813

    Ultimately we have to judge Wenger in May - not December, when everyone was saying what a great manager he is or now, when he is now the ****. I am fairly convinced it will the same as the last 9 years, a scrappy finish into 4th and then some PR work to say the season has been a success!! If this is the case (it has been for the last 9 years) then he has to go and the club have to carefully manage an exit strategy (no new contract and he wants a new challenge or what ever - they will never outright sack him). The same mistakes have been made over 9 years and the team is not moving forwards, the same mistakes are there every year. To be fair he went out and spent £40 million on a player and we all thought, hang up maybe this is a change....but guess what, he cocked that up (Ozil will never win games on he's own - he looks tidy on the ball, but will never take games by the scruff of the neck and change the result (as you would expect from a world class player). The worst thing Wenger has done to me, is make me not care any more, because I expect us to loose games, lack fight and bottle it when it matters and ultimately win nothing. My son is 4 years old and I have not brought him a shirt in 3 years because none of the current players have any sign of greatness or inspire me to want to bother to go out and spend my money. Just feed up of being used to failure - after all it has been 9 years!

  205. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 02, 2014, 17:38 #46812

    Kenny, I suspect he falls asleep on the coach on the way to every match and just wakes up when they hit the ramps on arriving, and then when they're all in the dressing room he just tells the players what he dreamt.

  206. DW Thomas

    Mar 02, 2014, 17:17 #46811

    Agree KC. Wenger wants to win ala tika-take Barca, but we don't have one major thing among many that have--Messi. The best p,Ayer of his generation that can take over games by himself. Not to mentionXavi and Iniesta. Plus they always have top strikers. Wenger is obsessed I think with the CL because he was so close yet lost. As to prove the money men wrong. Klopp did it not too long ago, but now look at Bayern! Crushing everyone in their path.

  207. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 02, 2014, 17:02 #46809

    Hi Berry, if your post does tempt the fury and provoke unkind comments it's only because some don't like being told the truth about the club and more importantly their messiah.

  208. KC

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:43 #46808

    We have waited for the stadium move to kick in, we have been patient and allowed a great Arsenal manager the time to deliver, sadly even when we now know we have the finance nothing changes. I do not understand how any manager that watched Pat, Henry, Bergkamp,Pires, Cesc etc can stomach watching the kind of football we play now. I try to understand wengers thinking and all I can come up with is that he is obsessed with winning the title without spending a fortune to say look I told you so. There is no other logical explanation why he would not use the funds to buy the top class striker, top class midfielder we so obviously require. Four transfer windows have been a disaster even last summer Ozil was not enough. Where is the pace? Where is the power? Barca are the worst thing that happened to Arsenal, Wenger is obsessed with them but to play their way you require high quality players. It's not the results in many ways its the performances they are dire and constantly fall short against top opposition. I have tried so hard to maintain confidence in Wenger but the time has come for change if you can not motivate a team chasing the title it's time to say thanks and good bye that yesterday was a joke. Sorry to go on but so frustrated but also worried as our owners really need to go to we require an owner that puts winning major trophies as a priority.

  209. PerryG

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:42 #46807

    @ JJetplane - 'I can remember Freddie and Bob mixing it with the Stokes of this world' Bobby pires mixing it? Thats one of the funniest things ive read on here, super player but mixing it wasnt in his DNA, he left that to the Vieira's and Keowns of the team. Yesterday's malaise was the Wenger teams of 07-14 personified - not good enough and not up for the battle when it counts. I really hope he does the honourable thing and goes in the summer, although he will probably stay to try and prove to Mourinho that he is not a specialist in failure. If he does it will be three more years of this to endure

  210. omera

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:39 #46806

    I couldn't agreed more with Kev,I am sick of this fourth-place trophy,Wenger has done his lot for us,he should please go!Martinez would do better with these squad.

  211. Silly Billy

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:37 #46805

    jon u not making sense what about munich we lost 2-0 with a foreign ref

  212. brucegrove

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:21 #46804

    1) Can we please banish the myth that AW has been restricted in his ability to spend in the last 7 or 8 years. I'm 100% sure that the board specifically stated, upon the announcement of the new stadium, that there would always be a transfer fund available to the manager and off the top of my head i seem to recall the figure of £40m being mentioned, perhaps somebody can confirm that? 2) Our transfer (in)activity in recent years is simply bizarre and it almost seems that AW is handicapping himself with his reluctance to spend the immense funds that the move to the Grove has accrued. If my memory serves me: After we lost 0-4 to AC Milan we played a league game v Blackburn in which we were 6-1 up with 25mins left to play. It was the perfect chance to take RvP off and give a run out to Chamakh and/or Park but he chose to play RvP for the full 90. Shortly after in the 2nd leg of the AC Milan game we were 3-0 up but clearly after an hour we needed some fresh impetus from the bench and we could only bring on Cham and Park, two players AW evidently had no faith in. Fast forward to the last two transfer windows where everybody - including AW- knows that we needed a striker but we've gone from one expensive Uraguayan extreme to the car boot Klose/Ba/Kalou option and humiliatingly failed to secure anybody. For my money the decision to play Sanogo (ahead of the much more experienced Bendt/Pod/Gir) v Bayern was the most astonishing of AW's whole reign. We were surely only going to get a small number of chances against the current best club side in the world and expecting Sanogo to have the poise and composure to put them away was surreal. Our transfer (non)policy is a senseless debacle. 3) Can everybody please stop saying that Giroud is tired and needs a rest. Yes, he works hard and covers a lot of ground but that's his job. He's hardly a speed merchant running the channels is he? I'd bet that Bellamy covers more ground during a game and he's nearly 10years older

  213. GoonerSam

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:17 #46802

    Wenger is so stale. Been watching football for over 40 years but have never seen a set up more in need of a change at the top.

  214. GoonGer

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:12 #46801

    Perfect analysis Kev, Adams was a shocker twice, but no excuse.We were poor, and not up for the firefight. It took 95 mins to create a decent chance!! Just not good enough

  215. GoonerRon

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:09 #46800

    @ Stevesam - persevering with a player (who when he was purchased was likened by many to a Bryan Robson/Gerrard box to box midfielder) isn't lucky. Giving him a new contract against pretty much all public opinion and thereby giving the player a huge confidence boost isn't lucky. He's given the lad a chance to play with confidence and any reward, however unexpected, isn't lucky.

  216. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:09 #46799

    Well written Kev and follows my feelings exactly. We always look frightened when we play Stoke so I was surprised that Flamini did not start but the result was no surprise. The fact that we were unable to move Stoke's leaden footed defenders around enough to score a goal is a sad indictment on our strike force however of the current two spearheads we are using, one does not score away from home and the other one just does not score. (Although it is not his fault he is being asked to play when he is clearly not ready for PL football)As for the way the season is heading most serious watchers of football know deep down that we are not going to make it. From the board's angle they would argue that 60,000 turn up at every home game, therefore it is of course the economics stupid! To quote another piece of political spin, "do we want change or more of the same" - seems liked we have settled for the later.

  217. Bard

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:06 #46798

    jon; sorry mate thats not fact its opinion. The facts are that a pen was given and we lost 1-0.

  218. DW Thomas

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:01 #46797

    Just listened to Mo talk about what he did to motivate Chelsea at halftime after what he said was there worst performance this season. ,"NOTHING." Then they played Wenger talking about the penalty decision. Night and day difference between the men. And let me be clear. I do not care much for Mo, but I do respect him. Just like you may not like your bitter rivals, but you must respect them. Wenger needs to take a good look at himself and see that he must try some outside the box thinking. Serious changes or his time is up. Everyone is passing him by. Really like Martinez at Everton. Maybe he or Klopp can turn our club around if Wenger CHOOSES to ignore his problems.

  219. Jon

    Mar 02, 2014, 16:01 #46796

    If we had an unbiased foreign ref at yesterday's game we would have won comfortably and Stoke would have finished with nine men FACT!

  220. CT Gooner

    Mar 02, 2014, 15:53 #46794

    Missed yesterday's game, so can only take folks word for what happened. Obviously there's a lot of talk about the manager, and our usual mild name calling, but I think we need to talk about the significant drop off in form. Look at our last 10 games (except Bayern) and it's been about how bad we've started. Each game has been worse than the previous, slow passing, constantly trying to go through the middle, and having too many players for central midfield and no where near enough out wide and up top. I love Arsenal, and am thankful for the style Wenger brought, which peaked in '04, but the downward spiral has not been the fault of the fans, it's the manager and his team. In that I include players, coaches, scouts, physio's and transfer negotiators. So for me, yes I'd love a trophy, but more than that I want to see accountability. The fans shoulder a huge cost at our club, and I'd guess most just want to see the fast beautiful game back, if we had that I think the trophies wouldn't be far behind....

  221. DW Thomas

    Mar 02, 2014, 15:16 #46793

    How did Ox and Flamini not start? Jack looked bad. The team looked lathargic and without ideas to beat a very average Stoke side. And the usual subs at 70 minutes is now a joke, every, single, time! Had we a top striker we would have won this game. Liverpool are the in form team. Even Jordan Henderson is playing like a man reborn. Yet what happens to our super star come crunch time? He is benched! You can't make this stuff up! Oh but he had a dead leg. More like we had dead tactics and have for years now. Anyone giving Wenger more time has his head in the clouds and will not see th glaring truth. He is past it. All he could is shake his head and blame the ref. sure he lamented our poor offense. Then why the h..l didn't you buy someone good in January? The players, fans, everyone needed that lift. But no, Monsieur Know-it-all thought we'd be ok. I am so pissed off. Kevin's right. We am still win our next 4 games, but what chance of that is there. Past behavior predicts future behavior. What was the score against City last time? When was the last time we beat Mourinho? Let alone at Chelsea. Those answers tell a tale. Again, you have to look at Liverpool and just shake your head. They play good football, win games, and have a coach who can figure things out tactically. We have a man whose ego won't allow him to adapt and change. I really, honestly think he believes he is the king of this club. Shame that everyone else agrees too.

  222. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 02, 2014, 15:06 #46792

    And others wonder why some fans don't get excited and carried away like they do when we win a game, or are in a promising position? well there's your answer. A woeful performance alright but did it take anybody by surprise? the only spirit this team or their manager know about is the one they were drinking last night. Out fought by another so called inferior team and out thought by a so called inferior manager. I wonder who's fault it is this time? no doubt it's only a blip how many's that now? I suppose it's a bit early to refer (or is it) to sanogo as a cart horse, two of them in the team is enough but he's certainly a foal. An awful lot of fans have felt philosophical for a long time now Kev because we've seen it all before and know it's never going to change as yesterday once again proved, and we all know why.

  223. Stevesam

    Mar 02, 2014, 14:30 #46790

    @GoonerRon – I wasn’t expecting Rambo to score goals for fun and become an essential part of the team, I sure you did not predict it either, but what is more important, AW admits he did not expect it. Therefore lucky. Was it AW who played Rambo in every position but his natural position last season to invite all the criticism ?

  224. jjetplane

    Mar 02, 2014, 14:28 #46789

    Respect to Kevin for keeping a cool head as the inevitable begins to numbingly take over proceedings. Incredible that we lost our two best players (Walcott and Ramsay) for a season it seems. Could it be that the perversely purist football grail that Wenger hankers after has made the Arsenal too soft for the challenge. I can remember Freddie and Bob mixing it with the Stokes of this world and talking of Bob, the day we clapped him on the pitch in his crutches was the day wengaworld lost it's competitive edge. Since then The Emirates and selling merchandise to the Easter Islands has overridden doing the necessary and dirty on the pitch. Nought wrong with a poster talking about Rodgers and a revitalised Liverpool - the way things are shaping it could well be (again!), a fight for fourth place with the unnameables as Liverpool put the pressure on Chelski and Citeh. Everton still have much to play for to establish themselves as a reenergised outfit, so Arsenal will have it all to do to get past them. Some of Arsenal's more energetic performances have happened in the cup, so here's hoping. Whatever happens anyone can see that a younger coach with hands-on commitment is what this team needs. Again Kev - perfectly measured response and after all these years who can blame it all on the supporters. Let's not forget what we mean when we 'We are the Arsenal/So f... off the rest....'

  225. King Jeremy

    Mar 02, 2014, 14:26 #46788

    Giroud, Bendtner, Sanogo. Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling. Compare and contrast.

  226. Bard

    Mar 02, 2014, 14:24 #46787

    Good post Moscow Gooner. I agree with that analysis. There is an interesting absence of support today apart from Westie's familiar enthusiasm. I would suspect that even the most diehard enthusiast realises that the performance yesterday was a million miles from that of title contenders. The side looks unbalanced, lightweight bereft of confidence and lacking in the kind of class up front that can rescue a game like that. On current form they will have a real dog fight on their hands for 4th place never mind winning the title. Much handwringing upstairs methinks.

  227. Westlower

    Mar 02, 2014, 14:21 #46786

    My 13 year old nephew Charlie attained his ref's badge this week and was in charge of his first game yesterday. After watching the Stoke v AFC game he called me say he was appalled by Mike Jones biased performance yesterday. Not too surprising to see Mr Jones is a resident of Cheshire. Currently watching the LC Final - what is it with Martin Tyler, he's already mentioned Man United more than he has Man City or Sunderland. He has become a total embarrassment.

  228. GoonerRon

    Mar 02, 2014, 14:14 #46785

    @ Stevesam - I think it's very harsh to say Wenger got lucky with Rambo's goals early in the season - if it was down to the vast majority of people on here Ramsey wouldn't even have been an Arsenal player this season, let alone a re-invigorated shoo-in starter for us. As for the game itself, we were pants and never really got going and I'd seriously question the line up in terms of Flamini not starting. Ref was a pussy homer in fairness which didn't help but the players need to take a long hard look at themselves. Still not out of it by any stretch with plenty of games between the top teams still to play - but it has made out remaining games pretty much must win.

  229. Peter Wain

    Mar 02, 2014, 14:03 #46784

    the lack of investment in the first team squad was all too evident yesterday. A journey centre forward and a rookie striker no way to win the premiership or any other trophy. Finishing fourth maybe the best we can hope for but if this perpetuates with another contract offer of three years or more to Wenger you have to question what is the point of it all. We all know that in the next transfer window we will be promised gold and at the end of it we will be scrambling around deperately trying to sign any player as the manager is so indecisive so the next three seasons will be trophyless. Time for a change right through the club from the owner the pathetic ceo the compliant board and the manager.

  230. GoonerBri

    Mar 02, 2014, 13:41 #46782

    As usual the wheels have come off our PL challenge because OGL didn't invest properly in the new year and summer windows. The squad is too weak, especially up front. Giroud is good but we need one of the top scorers from the leagues in Germany, Spain or France. Ozil is too good for those around him - he'll improve next year when Walcott and Ramsey return. Wenger can no longer motivate the team and has no plan B - time to go. 4th place for us but we can still win the cup. Come on you Gunners!

  231. Jack Harper

    Mar 02, 2014, 13:39 #46781

    Ticket price rise anyone? Oh, sorry, three months too late.

  232. Moscow Gooner

    Mar 02, 2014, 13:24 #46780

    The case against AW really rests on three counts: his inability to any longer motivate the team (apparent in recent seasons - he commands loyalty and respect from players but that is a different quality); his lack of tactical nous (a long-standing issue, but one that was less apparent in the distant past due to the outstanding individuals in the team; and the inability to act decisively when required in the transfer market (a relatively more recent phenomenon). Regardless of whether we win a trophy this year - and the FA Cup is certainly there to be won - these problems will remain and will if anything intensify. To say that (at the end of this season) it is time that AW moved on is not an act of disloyalty - it's an overdue recognition that he has taken the club as far as he possibly can. Let's recognise his contribution and move into a new era. Given the cash that was available last Summer, buying Ozil was a gamble that really didn't make much sense. Is anyone confident that with AW at the helm we won't make the same mistakes again this Summer?

  233. Bard

    Mar 02, 2014, 13:20 #46779

    Of course its still possible that we can win the title but what mitigates against that thought is that on yesterdays evidence the players either don't believe it or aren't up for it. it was hardly a case of Stoke being slaughtered and got lucky. I imagine there is a fair degree of concern in the boardroom at the moment. Wenger hasn't signed a new contract and may well walk. It seems inconceivable that he could sign if we have another collapse. Their best hope is to win the cup so they can legitimately claim that progress is being made. The squabbling over Suarez in the sumer with hindsight looks amateurish in the extreme. The Board's panic must be exacerbated by the demise of Untd. Shirt sales in China will start to slip god forbid. Have they planned for life after Wenger? I don't think so. Difficult days ahead, unless the you go with the more deluded on this site who probably still believe we're going to turn over Bayern and go on an unbeaten run till the end of the season.

  234. UTU

    Mar 02, 2014, 13:13 #46778

    As predicted the wheels are coming off just like they do every year at this point in the season. Regime change is required over The Arsenal from the Owners, Board of Directors and the Manager. Noting will change until the Fans stop handing their hard earned cash to the current Regime who care only for 'Profits'

  235. jeff wright

    Mar 02, 2014, 13:12 #46777

    Just how dopey is Giroud,he not only has girls in his hotel rooms hours before matches when he should be following le profs orders and having a kip,but the arrogant oaf allows the girls to take pictures of him wearing just his little boxer-shorts to keep as souvenirs !You couldn't make it up. This nonsense is more than likely just the tip of the ice-berg with what is going on among our players, and a further indication that Wenger has lost the respect of his current players ,no wonder he looks so stressed out watching them perform like a sunday pub side against any team that puts up a fight. Lucky for Arsene that he has idiots such as Mike the man of a thousand alias's to keep on offering unconditional loyalty to him, our players though obviously are not in accord with doing that.

  236. Highbury Boy

    Mar 02, 2014, 13:03 #46776

    I am not sure that recent results signify a collapse and even if we just manage a couple of points in the next 4 games it doesn't prove anything apart from the fact that we are the same as last season and only a quirk of the fixture list made us as high as we were. Some of us have been posting for months that we would be fighting for 4th spot as usual. If you think about it reasonably why should this season be different to last? Yesterday for example we started with the same players who were here last season. OK Ozil came on but he needs players who run into position for him. The inexperienced freebie came on and played like that. Flamini would have put himself about but would have probably picked up a couple of yellows in the process. Yes it's nice to be as optimistic as some and hope that KK comes off the injury list to score the winning goal in the CL final but we have to get real and hope that the damage inflicted upon us in the next few games will not stop us getting enough points in the last few easier games to clinch the magic 4th spot.

  237. jamie hunter

    Mar 02, 2014, 12:27 #46775

    The fact we are falling apart and won't win anything is fairly de rigeur as we know, but I just can't wait for the statement from Gazuseless telling us the reasons they've given Wenger a new deal and a pay rise. The only way this club can move forward is finishing 5th because it's the only way we will get a change of manager. And if the club have rinsed enough cash out of the fans this year, even fifth probably won't do it.

  238. Edmund

    Mar 02, 2014, 12:22 #46774

    I think Wenger will not renew if he doesn't win some silverware. His big mistake was not srenghtening in Jan. That said all gooners should back the team. If Suarez signed with us, he may end up being booed as well. C'mon you gunners.

  239. BADARSE

    Mar 02, 2014, 12:16 #46772

    WENGER OUT you are a rational young man and a seemingly pleasant chap. Refreshingly surprising and quite uplifting. I genuinely thought you may be a grizzled and gnarled pessimist, am glad I engaged. Firstly my five players I love watching/like 1st-5th.Rosicky;Ozil;Ramsey;Koscielny;Oxlade-Chamberlain. In terms of effectiveness currently. Ramsey; Koscielny;Sir Chesney; Sagna; Flamini. I think you nailed a view of me. To answer your response, do I believe in class? Yes in the sense I believe in what I can see, (or know to exist/ or not)-it's why I am an atheist. I abhor class distinction but it is rife still and takes many subtle guises. I would always challenge injustice and inequality-class is an ugly form of those. Boer? My brother is a Dutchman (naturalised), and any heathen or neanderthal behaviour or views can draw a quietly spoken oath, as in boer/farmer-unrefined or gauche. My jibe at Mourhino was an undisguised attempt at being witty.

  240. Kenny

    Mar 02, 2014, 12:13 #46771

    Yesterday was as bad as last seasons dire performance at Norwich.No fight no passion.Gutless.We didnt fancy it.WTF does Wenger tell the players before every visit to Stoke.Its no secret the way Stoke play.The team selection was crazy picking Arteta before Flamini was pure bloody mindedness.Arteta is finished.As for not picking our one player in form the OX thats why our clown gets £7.5m a year.Giroud is what he will always be an average striker with no pace.Sanago cost nothing and you get what you pay for.As others have said its another Groundhog season which we are now a fight for 4th again.The facts are we will never win another trophy while Kroenke Gazidis and Wenger are running our club.Wenger has to go in the the summer.Ozil may or may not be a good player but he was a player we didnt need we needed a 25 league goal a season STRIKER but i havent managed for 30 years

  241. Terry

    Mar 02, 2014, 12:09 #46770

    Unfortunately we have been carrying the negative sunshine fans for too long it's time they took leave and sat in the dark.

  242. WENGER OUT

    Mar 02, 2014, 12:07 #46768

    Great article Kev! Very honest, I feel your pain, although like me I guess you've been prepared for a while, so the blow has been somewhat softened. The Ox came on and created 2 or 3 decent opportunities - which were wasted by our inadequate strikers - in 15 mins, yet he didn't start. Why is our only form players on the bench when we're so low on form? Maybe someone can actually give me a reason, like he was injured or something? When you set out your stall to play counter attacking football, you need pace to break away - That we had no pace in the side was abundant for all to see! How can anyone expect a player like Ozil to thrive when our movement is similar to that of a corpse? I don't subscribe the school of thought that says the refereeing was poor, neither of the stamps could have easily been seen and the referees assistants seemed to decide to have a day off and leave all of the decisions to the main man. The penalty was a 50:50 if it had gone the other way we would have been called lucky to get away with it, Kos made himself a larger object by holding his hands above his head, therefore it was a fair decision. I hope that the odious little thug Adam gets a retrospective ban for his stamp, that was taking it way beyond a 'roughing up' and Giroud would have been within his rights to 'knock his lights out' - Olivier deserves a lot of respect for keeping his cool so well. I think it's time for a major clear out at the club, starting at the top. I would take a couple of United style seasons if I knew we were moving in the right direction. We need a new manager, a decent replacement for grandpa Arteta, send Diaby off to the knackery, a decent back up for Sir Chesney, another top class centre-half, Bendtner to be shipped off anywhere, Sagna on a 2 year deal, Rosicky on a 2 year deal, Mertesacker to be made captain full-time, sign a decent understudy to Sagna, sign proper left-back for Gibbs to understudy, convert Monreal to a left midfielder or sell him, give Joel Campbell a chance (work permit permitting), and finally sign a 20+ goal a season striker! Not much to work on then, but we have the resources, so why not dream big...

  243. Mark

    Mar 02, 2014, 11:43 #46765

    After Everton , Bayern , Tottenham , Chelsea , Man City , it could be six on the spin , the manager must be moved on , ok a negative view but can Wenger be expected to take Arsenal any further forward ??????

  244. BADARSE

    Mar 02, 2014, 11:36 #46764

    Good morning gentlemen. Thank you Kev, a very balanced article, and a good picture of our position/plight was painted. Was feeling doleful until I got to westlower's last post. A big but not unexpected disappointment yesterday. It happens! Long term we are in the lap of the gods. Will Arsene leave, delighting many? We shall await that outcome. Right now there is a job to do, and it's a real 'toughie'. It is against the odds that we shall succeed, but are we all up for the fight? If I was tethered and someone was about to run me through I would do my level best to spit in his eye as I snuffed it. We need that now from the team, but the fans have a duty too. We are a long time dead gentlemen; enjoy what is on offer right now; let's try and make a fist of it. Good old Arsenal.

  245. GoonerGoal!

    Mar 02, 2014, 11:34 #46763

    So here we are again for the 9th season in a row, and those who knew exactly what would happen with the “specialist in failure” remaining in charge are once again under attack by those who refuse to believe the evidence of their own eyes. Despite Wenger clearly lacking a plan B or the tactical nous to win key matches against the principal rivals, there are still some who honestly believe” he certainly had good results against principal rivals in the past so there is still some hope” and “we're not dead yet, still a dozen games to play and fate can turn in our favour”. GET REAL! Wenger’s record against the top clubs has been disgraceful in the seasons since they last won a trophy. Arsenal have taken just 25 points from a possible 84 against top four opposition between 2009 and 2014! You people really think he’s still a great manager? Then consider this - when Flamini plays, Arsenal score much more, they concede less, and they win much more. According to Opta, the club's win percentage with Flamini in the team is 72.73%; without him, it is 50%. Flamini also has the highest pass completion ratio of any midfielder in the Premier League, eclipsing Arteta. So what does Wenger do? We enter the battleground that is the Britannia, where we have WON just ONCE under Wenger in the League, with Flamini on the bench and Arteta starting the match. Enough said! WENGER/KROENKE/GAZIDIS OUT! VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

  246. John Abrehart

    Mar 02, 2014, 11:32 #46762

    I have never seen so much sideways passing in front of their back four since the days of Ray Wilkins. We made it easy for Stoke to keep tracking us and throw in a challenge whenever we looked likely to make a forward move. I believe that the wrong midfielders started the game; The Ox's direct style would surely have created more with Flamini beefing up the spine of the team. The referee was just not competent for a game such as this, he looked like a little boy out there at times. The two strikers on the field at the end of the game were both free transfers I believe. That says it all really.

  247. Nozzer

    Mar 02, 2014, 11:20 #46761

    The manner of the defeat concerned me yesterday, the players have no excuses, there was no midweek game either this week. There was a distinct lack of fight. Its the most open title race in years but our lot seemed to down tools. When Giroud got stamped on there was hardly any reaction from our players. I can't understand why Flamini did not start, you need combative players at Stoke to first win the battle before imposing your game. Well as for the Ox, he has been in good form and is fresh, what is Wenger thinking. I think its time for a change at the top, I would love to see Wenger win a trophy and then step down. He team selection at times now is baffling and his inability to act in the transfer market has cost us this season and that is not good management.

  248. Finsbury Joe

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:56 #46758

    Will you now believe me when I have been saying all along this pathetic outfit will finish outside the top four? We all want wenger out but is there anyone in the club who knows enough about the game to pick a new manager? They will clearly go for bould on the cheap and the dross taken out of their comfort zone will down tools. Great times present and future for rivals who out match the ambition of this shambolic outfit

  249. Westlower

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:52 #46757

    Nothing wrong with AFC that a new owner/board/manager/players/backroom staff, medical staff/moving back to Highbury/Herbert Chapman as the new manager/Storey in midfield, won't put right! Same people moaning today are largely the same ones who were moaning when we were on a winning run. Will you still be protesting if we beat Everton next weekend? Over time, you've diluted your own arguments by repeating the same words, over & over & over, zzzzzzzzzz!

  250. Gunner SA

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:51 #46756

    Kev, Giroud has scored away to Sunderland, Newcastle, Aston Villa and Fenerbache in the European Cup. Completely agree with you that Wenger should have bought a centre forward in the summer or January and now Arsenal is paying the price. The writing's on the wall for the title challenge (again).

  251. JackL

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:48 #46755

    The fact is we have not played well for a couple of months apart from the odd game-what gets me is that we could have had a significant lead at the top if we would have beaten Everton at home, and the first half of that game was the worst of the season-what an opportunity wasted. Our record against the top sides is dreadful and, although I am going to Munich, I guess I will have to enjoy the sightseeing and pray for the same result as last year!

  252. dazzy90

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:43 #46754

    @ Trev you commented about the authors opinion of Wenger and how he hasn't - "the tactical nous to win key matches against the principal rivals". Clearly Wenger once did have it, in a different football era against less equipped teams who hadn't had millions of pounds thrown at their squad. However, now the game has moved on and sadly Wenger hasn't. A blinkered belligerent clueless clown, who fails time and again to construct a squad of quality where everyone else can see additions are needed. As for his tactical nous against top opposition, failed in 20 attempts to defeat mourinho.....??! Tells you Trev all you need to know. It's embarrassing. Read up the games against the current top 5 over the past 8 years, you will see a sad lack of wins confirming once again a lack of tactical nous. Time and again he fails to get a team fired up for any game, we never come out the tunnel looking for a fight. We just expect to tip tap it around and walk it in to the net. Teams have sussed Werner out, and let's face it, it's not difficult. Fergie had him in his pocket for years, now everyone else can see it too. Wenger hurry up and leave, you done great things but sadly all too long ago.

  253. Spectrum

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:38 #46753

    Last I heard was that Michael Laudrup was still available. Any takers ? Not on our board, that's for sure. "In Arsene we rust."

  254. smithy

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:35 #46751

    At the top level the margins are extremely tight.Wenger is unable to produce a managerial performance which beats the jugganauts of chelsea and man city.I think he is a busted flush.The club however puts profit above performance so he is achieving what they want him to do.I cannot see Arsenal winning anything again with arsene in charge as tatically he is passed it and he continually hamstrings the squad by his odd transfer perceptions.I think 4th is all we can achieve under Arsene this season and next.

  255. Martyn

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:28 #46750

    The season started to decline when Walcott and Ramsey got injured. No width, no pace and no intelligence. Add to that a tactically inept manager and a wasted transfer window. Fourth place at best and a fresh start next season with Wenger out. Klopp for the Emirates!

  256. Spectrum

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:26 #46749

    This season is merely version number nine, printed off the same photocopier. " In Arsene we rust."

  257. Westlower

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:24 #46748

    We're not dead yet, still a dozen games to play & fate can turn in our favour in any given 90 minutes. A good display against Everton next week and we're in the Cup semi's. Too much media emphasis on our hard March fixture list, let's start winning games and the perceived problem will be forgotten. In the past fortnight we've been undone by a missed penalty & a soft penalty awarded against us. It's always darkest before the dawn. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain , your moment has come, we Gooners need you to blast us through to the end of the season.

  258. Stevesam

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:23 #46747

    Kev another excellent report and sums up my feelings exactly. The race for the fourth place trophy starts now. If we achieve 4th place AW shall be rewarded by Silent Stan with a new contract. The reason Liverpool shall finish above us – Suarez 24 and Sturridge 18. Citeh – Aguero 15, Toure 13 and Negredo 9. We have Giroud 12. We are clearly in a false position as AW got lucky with Rambo’s early season goals. Our current strike force is woeful – Giroud, Pod (anonymous yesterday) and the Postman. Ozil – gets the ball in space and is looking for movement, he previously played with, Ronaldo, Benzema, Higuain, etc, what does he see, Giroud, Pod or the Postman, difficult, very. Jack is clearly not the playmaker we need in the centre of midfield and Flamini should have played. Clearly it is time for change. In my lifetime I have seen us win the league 6 times, I feel now, I shall not see us win another title with the current leadership at the Club. I blame Bracewell-Smith for selling out to the Yank, the biggest mistake in the club’s history. Pure greed. A feeling of, one step forward and two steps back, for many years to come.

  259. underacheiver

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:21 #46746

    Hi Berry - Install Rogers as our new manager? Why would he want to work for a regime whose raison d'être is to make money and winning trophies is way way down the list of priorities? Wenger going is only step 1. We need a new owner as well

  260. dragongooner

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:19 #46745

    Very disappointing performance from a team supposedly going for the title. Comparing Stoke with Bolton reminds me of the time when Arsenal went to Bolton in the run in for Wenger's first title winning team. They ground out a 1-0 win with a gritty performance and if memory serves me right, Martin Keown getting sent off with 20 minutes to play. We lack that fighting spirit in these games and why do we start these games in such a lethargic manner? We never seem to come out in away games with a heightened sense of attitude and determination. With reference to Trev's comment earlier, I think Wenger did get lucky with the strength of character he inherited in the likes of Adams, Keown, Dixon and Parlour. They seemed to drive and organise out on the pitch if things got tough. The last man from Wenger's trophy winning era that had the drive and passion was Viera. The closest we have now is Flamini. What Wenger has lost is the ability to mix flair and passing football with an inner steel which every team has to have to win trophies. Going back further to the original 'Double' side they had a great leader in McLintock who led by example. Oh for a vociferous and strong leader!! Where is our next McLintock, Adams or Viera going to come from? Unless there is an improvement in a 'winning' away mentality I can't see trips to tough away games at Everton , Chelsea and the Spuds being anything different. As far as I can see we've hit the glass ceiling again.

  261. Reg Varney

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:16 #46744

    Good piece Kevin and very balanced. It's hard to disagree with any of it although I see its still managed to wind up a couple of haters. @Terry - Kevin said that "on quality of chances created" Stoke deserved to win. You seem to have missed the context he applied. It's an opinion and one which I would suggest is correct as Szczesny made three or four decent saves and I struggle to recall one which the Stoke keeper made which could be classed as anything other than routine. Happy for you or others to disagree, but at least explain why and don't just write off the comment as a "typical response". @Trev - What a silly thing to say that it's more important to some fans to get Wenger out than to win things on the backs of something written online. Kevin has been honest enough over recent years to give his view that Wenger has run out of ideas. Before that he was fulsome in his praise of him or perhaps you're a newcomer and don't remember what was being said and written in the early years of Wenger's reign. People change and so does the game. The point being made was that it doesn't appear as though AW has the technical ability to get results in the big games with this group of players. Of course he managed it in the past, but that was with a different team who I'd argue were better players with better football brains. Is it Wenger's fault that the current crop are not as good as the Invincibles? Perhaps not 100% as he's undoubtedly been limited in his capacity to spend over the years, but as the manager he has to take the majority of the responsibility and if he was as good a coach as many claim, he'd still be able to deliver results in the big matches more often than we are currently seeing. It's all about opinions though and I've just shared a couple of mine. Look forward to reading others.

  262. John F

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:15 #46743

    I wonder if Stoke's good home form against the top sides this year is due to the World cup.Players do not want to get seriously injured and miss Brazil.The press are going on about Pardew this morning and not the far worse stamp by Adams on Giroud.I would love Wenger to prove me wrong and win a trophy because he clearly cares about Arsenal.His reluctance to buy a forward I think is due to the fact he is gambling on the progress of Sonogo and Campbell. Some managers have clearly worked out how to beat us and he can not adjust his game to counteract their tactics.If you read the report on the Arsenal FC blog underneath is a link to the 2011 game at stoke.Apart from the score it told the same story as yesterdays game. Different players same attitude and tactics. The only consolation is that I was not born a stoke fan where the only joy is to how many players you can get carried off the pitch.Apparently the Stoke season ticket holders have to sign to say they will not sue the the club for any whiplash or other neck injuries because the amount of time their necks have to jerk upwards watching the ball.Rumour has it their pre season friendlies are against Wigan ,Leeds and Hull,Sorry I should have added Warriors,Rhinos and KR at the end of the names.

  263. Spectrum

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:15 #46742

    Trev said ; "It seems to me that getting Wenger out is more important to you than Arsenal winning things". Dead right. Because UNTIL we get Wenger out, we WON'T win things. If you had more insight than you evidently have, you'd realise this too ! In the meantime be content with the knowledge that - "In Arsene we rust."

  264. Ian

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:10 #46741

    You cant win the title without a proper srticker

  265. Spectrum

    Mar 02, 2014, 10:02 #46740

    It was so PREDICTABLE that the ( relatively ) "good" season we've had so far ( mainly due to Bould improving the defence, and the now faded "Ozil effect" ) has been merely another false dawn. Another mirage that evaporates as soon as we come under pressure to deliver. The only good thing that may come out of it, is that if we fail to win anything yet again, Wenger has hinted that this will be his last attempt. The rumour is that he will see how we do this season, and if we flop once more, he'll walk, at long last. It's that hope that sustains me and keeps me supporting the Gunners. The day he leaves is the day I'll throw a celebration party, because that's when we'll finally have hope restored to our club ! " In Arsene we rust."

  266. Hi Berry

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:56 #46738

    This may well tempt the fury of many of the posters and readers on this site, but did anyone watch the Southampton v Liverpool game yesterday evening? The first half was breathtaking as both teams played with speed, accuracy, flair and passion - qualities that sadly always seem to be missing from Arsenal teams at this time of year. In less than two years Brendan Rodgers has turned Liverpool from mid-table also-rans into viable title contenders - they certainly have a momentum with them reminiscent of our charge to the title in '98. I'm not advocating we should install Rodgers as our new manager but the work he has done with both Swansea and Liverpool is indicative of what new,dynamic management can bring to a football team. I have always been willing to cut Arsene Wenger a huge amount of slack these past eight or nine years (Stadium, financial constraints etc. etc) and can only be grateful for what he has brought to Arsenal (and those of us who endured the 70s and 80s know exactly what I am talking about) but I really do think it's time for a change. Despite last season's undefeated run-in -against eminently beatable opposition - the February/March collapse is too common an occurance. Ozil may well prove to be a brilliant player in years to come, but somehow I doubt it and as suggested above £55M for Suarez would have been money better spent regardless of his histrionics and doubtful provenance as a nice human being. The team is tired, the players are tired and I am now firmly of the opinion that the manager's thinking is tired. One final point - and again this will probably provoke unkind comments in response - is anyone else fed up with the sight of Jack Wilshire holding onto the ball too long and spending half the game sitting on his backside with arms outstretched?

  267. KC

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:45 #46736

    Great article it's very balanced and honest. Each week I watch believing we are not good enough and do not have enough top quality in key areas perhaps spoilt by the Bergkamp Henry years but hope that I am wrong and being unfairly harsh. It's now frustrating because I struggle to understand how our manager keeps trying to compete with the best with a squad that clearly is not good or deep enough.

  268. shafe

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:42 #46735

    I think the problem arsenal is having is still having wenger as the manager. He knows the areas to strengthened in the squad but will never do that and having this same problem every season. I think the only solution is bringing a new face to the emirate as the french man as also been termed as a "specialist in failure" by his counterpart, morinho.

  269. Carlos

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:41 #46734

    Have to agree with a great deal of this, but I do feel there is still some hope. There are still many fixtures between the top sides to be played and after the run of difficult matches there is quite a "comfortable" run in. We have to hope for City to progress in the CL as well as Chelsea. I am not sure either of them can cope with a full on assault in two competitions, and if they play each other it could have a debilitating effect on them both. I am clutching at straws, but I do not feel that we can yet close the book on this season in terms of the league.

  270. Wibble fish

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:40 #46733

    Sadly it reminds me of the last few season when Clough was in charge at Forest. Very few managers can maintain the magic over a long period of time and Wenger certainly has lost the edge he once had in the early days. Without doubt he has the ability to keep Arsenal in the top part of the table for years to come. However, the game has moved on from the late 90's but unfortunately for Wenger his tactically awareness has not. If he walks away at the end of the season we will rightly celebrate him as the great manger he once was. However, I suspect he won't and it will inevitably end in tears.

  271. Simon

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:34 #46732

    All fair comments I would say. With regards to Trev are you one of those lemmings who feels that Arsenal wouldn't exist without Wenger? How long do we go without winning a trophy until we finally accept we will never enjoy success again with him in charge. The players, management, board and a large number of our fans seem to view finishing in 4th as a great success, I for one was embarrassed at the way celebrated after our win at Newcastle. As a long standing season ticket holder, I have been fortunate enough to see us win the league on several occasions and you can just tell when a side is going to win the league, not just because of results but the players hunger and confidence. I haven't felt this once this season and realistically Sagan is the only one who could have made it into the invincible team. Call me negative, call me a glory hunter but I have supported arsenal for 34 years and I cannot bear the thought of another 3 years of wenger. He's had more than his fair share of loyalty from the fans and for the good of the club he should go at the end of the season and then allow us to move forward.

  272. Spectrum

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:33 #46731

    There's hope for Arsenal fans yet, then ! The specialist in failure may have some decency in him after all, by recognising that his nine years of having won nothing - shouldn't be rewarded with a new contract. Five years late at least, but better late than never. Good riddance to Wenger. Let's start afresh with a manager who has ambitions beyond finishing top four every year only to be knocked out of the champion's league as soon as we come up against a class team. The only way our club can go forward, is by calling a long overdue taxi for the has-been who's currently in charge. And what does it say about the club, when we have a board who are actually proud of his non accomplishments ? Shameful state of affairs. " In Arsene we rust."

  273. Bard

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:25 #46729

    Thought that was pretty accurate and fair. Its not really a surprise, 4th is and has been the goal. What was a surprise was the lack f fight. You wouldn't have thought this was a side in with a chance of the title. I think yesterdays result despite the refereeing clangers raises massive questions about Wenger's future. Even he might come to realise that the journeys over. Signing another contract on massive money would be a huge gamble with his reputation. If you can't motivate a team who are in with a real chance of winning something then your number is truly up.

  274. GoonerTed

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:21 #46728

    The manager has to go now. He can take donkey Wilshere and Ozil the flop with him as well. Throwing money at it obviously isn't working.

  275. cyril

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:20 #46727

    Balanced article. The look on Wenger's face when we went a goal down was pitiful. Usually, i become the 'tasmanian devil' at these points in the stadium or in the pub, as it has been the same diet for far too long now. However, that look suggests he should give it up and move on. My tolerance has gone but i can't have a pop anymore. For such a big club, our fans have shown so much respect to him and rightly too. However, if he truly loves this club, he must be honest to himself and to us. He has a legacy to this club but he has run the club a bit like the grandad from Brewsters Millions in the last few years handing out money to his own, while we have been sitting here scratching our heads. That's it, i have worked it out, every new player who joins, gets plonked plonked in front of a grainy projector and has to listen to Wenger explain the contract and what they need to do to access the millions. I'll have ten million on arsenal to win a trophy !

  276. Mikeymike2711

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:20 #46726

    Totally agree with points made in post - especially part about not feeling that we were ever in a race in the first place. Battle for 4th, once again, with the scum - this time, will they be 3rd time lucky? Can't discount it. Game in 2 weeks, massive.

  277. Trev

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:12 #46725

    Unlike Kevin to be negative about Wenger. Saying he hasn't got "the tactical nous to win key matches against the principal rivals" suggests he either never had it or has lost it. He certainly had good results against principal rivals in the past. Or was he just luckier then? It seems to me that getting Wenger out is more important to you than Arsenal winning things.

  278. Westlower

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:04 #46724

    Can't disagree with your thoughts Kevin. Can only hope we hit rock bottom yesterday and we'll put a performance in next weeks Cup 1/4 final to get us back on track. I was surprised Ox & Flamini didn't start as Stoke are guaranteed to be physical against us. A homer ref didn't give our players any protection at all. To ignore one stamp on Giroud is understandable, to miss two is a sign of a ref with limited fair play intentions. On reflection Flamini could have done a job on Adams but probably would have drawn a red card from Mick Jones. A soft penalty & a poor shot from Sanogo compounded a poor performance but in the bigger picture a draw would not have been much use either. It's all about winning games from here on.

  279. Terry

    Mar 02, 2014, 9:01 #46723

    I stopped reading after 'Stoke deserved their win' Typical response these days from our own section of Orcs.

  280. Noodles

    Mar 02, 2014, 8:59 #46722

    Sadly its Groundhog season yet again .... As usual Wenger did nothing in January to help get us over the line with some much needed signings and we all know whats going to happen next as we fans who haven't worked half a day in football have seen it year after year. The FA cup is our last hope of saving the season but Wenger will no doubt play the second tier players. .... its all too painful

  281. ianmac

    Mar 02, 2014, 8:56 #46721

    We are effectively in 4th as City have 2 games in hand. I would take 4th at the end of the season now as there's no chance of finishing higher but definitely the chance of finishing lower. Time to go Arsene please, for your own good as well as the club.