Another March, Another European exit

Online Ed: Arsenal draw in Munich



Another March, Another European exit


A draw last night at the Allianz Arena was a highly creditable result, however, Arsenal lost this tie in the first leg. The two penalties in the first half at the Grove proved the key moments in this tie. Ozil’s miss and Szczesny’s red card gave the Gunners very little chance, although there was a flicker of hope in Munich as Bayern wobbled slightly at 1-1.

It was a decent enough starting eleven. The move of Oxlade-Chamberlain into central midfield at the expense of Flamini indicated the visitors’ intent. Soak up the pressure and get something on the break. Podolski was a surprise starter, with Vermaelen drafted in at left back.

The home side, at times, were highly reminiscent of Guardiola’s Barcelona in their hunger to chase down the ball and Arsenal found possession difficult, not helped by some sloppy passing when opportunity did arise. However, they defended doggedly, and rode their luck at times. 0-0 at the interval worked just fine.

Ozil was removed from the fray at half time, apparently due to an injury, with the busier Rosicky replacing him. Unfortunately, the absence of Flamini meant that the marking and concentration was not what it might have been in midfield and Schweinsteiger had the freedom of Munich to take the ball in the penalty area and open the scoring for the home side.

However, Arsenal fought back quickly, with what looked like a blatant push on Lahm by Podolski ignored by the referee, leading to a rifled equalizer. Podolski even looked at the ref after shoving Lahm, expecting a whistle. The dynamic of the game changed for a while and Arsenal, with their tails up, started to get more into the game and establish better territory. It was a spell that Bayern weathered, before gradually re-establishing their control of the game.

Gnabry for Arteta was a final throw of the dice. Arsenal had a little rally towards the end of the game, and created danger, but with two goals to score, it was a big ask, too big.

Arsenal seem to have developed a habit in recent seasons of, once the last 16 stage is reached, having a bad day in the first leg and leaving themselves too much to do to recover the tie. At least against Barcelona in 2010 and 2011, they were still in it after the first game. However, v Milan, and Bayern twice in the last three years, it has proved mission impossible in the return games. In Europe, sloppy moments and mistakes cost dear.

Even so, Arsenal were far from disgraced in Germany, and realistically, had nothing to lose. Last season’s match at the same venue provided a springboard for a very good run of results that the team need to replicate now to keep their interest in the title race alive. They will play Tottenham on Sunday, most likely facing a very different starting eleven from Spurs’ Europa League match on Thursday. So the Gunners are likely to suffer more from fatigue, and covered a lot of ground last night to prevent Bayern running riot.

A win at the Lane is not actually essential if Arsenal can find a way to defeat Chelsea and Manchester City in the fortnight following, and then win every other match, although there is a belief they could get away with a draw somewhere if you believe 85 points will be enough to win the title this season. Certainly the lack of European distraction can only help a team where some of the players are starting to show signs of running out of steam.

The bookies latest odds for the title are as follows –
Chelsea 10/11
Man City 15/8
Liverpool 13/2
Arsenal 22/1

Few believe Arsenal can win these big matches. However, there are 89 points achievable. It’s up to the players and the manager to prove that this season, things are going to be different. There are some huge games between now and the end of March, on paper everything to play for and the very real prospect of an FA Cup trophy means the season can end in glory. All that is required is for the team, having established a decent position, to deliver. They will need a couple of favours from Liverpool, but to help themselves, winning on Sunday at the Lane would be a good start.

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  1. BADARSE

    Mar 15, 2014, 21:07 #47450

    Eloquently put DW Thomas. I think you are almost there. I don't advocate becoming numb to the joy of passion and excitement. You clearly are of a very similar ilk to me, friend. What I am trying to get across is the hopelessness and seeming demoralisation you feel as the 'groundhog day' occurs. I am suggesting that you immunise yourself whenever possible. You cannot control some things and you have to accept and prepare mentally for those eventualities. I shan't implore you not to change, there is no need, you cannot. Nor can any of us. This Arsenal is a lifetime commitment which will haunt and exhilarate to the grave. That is our lot. It's nice connecting like this though, and despite our diferent ways of dealing with the circumstances be aware we all share the same pain...and those magical, oh so magical, moments.

  2. DW Thomas

    Mar 15, 2014, 14:38 #47447

    Here's the conundrum Badarse. If I just stop caring then wins and losses have little emotional effect, the passion, good and bad, is gone. I. Some ways that's good as my limited daily energy can be better spent towards more important things like job and family. Yet, those moments when a great win occurs or a beautiful goal is scored seem shallow and I don't think I will ever feel that way about the Arsenal. I love the history of this club and the way we try to play that pure passing style when possible. Giroud's goal the other day against Everton an example. Those moments help me find joy in a world of cynicism and depressing daily news stories. I think following Arsenal for many is a respite from the banality that life often has. I enjoy some things in life more than football, but playing and watching still give me joy. It's just being eroded by the seemingly never ending grounghog day seasons we experience each year. We do also have a World Cup this summer which always provides entertainment and joy. As a lifetime fan of Les Bleus, Zidanes's headbutt still lingers in my painful memories. Yet I have so many wonderful memories of them and Arsenal. Maybe deep down I just want more of that joy and it is happening less and less.

  3. BADARSE

    Mar 15, 2014, 7:48 #47429

    DW Thomas, take a look around, you have just described reality. Those at the top of any organisation do not care. Does anyone care who gets killed when a videogame-type missile is fired, drones anyone? You are a customer in the eyes of an inanimate body like a football club. It is only amongst like minds, as in fellow fans/family that you become tangible, real, and of substance. I don't share your pronounced views, but you are amongst 'friends' of a sense on here. My advice is to come down a level. Life is not real. How can you ever make sense of an existence when all you could ever wish for your beautiful little baby in your arms is that they will die at a ripe age, and with a minimal amount of pain, having experienced a joyous life? Naw! All make believe chum. Good old Arsenal.

  4. DW Thomas

    Mar 15, 2014, 0:06 #47426

    Specialist in failure. How Wenger is living up to that. Paid millions to win, makes excuses for failure time and again. I find myself not caring that much about games anymore as we all know how it will all turn out in the end. Change will eventually come, but will I be interested anymore? I hope so, but this club has taken my,passion and eroded it to dying embers. It's always next game, next year, just a blip, somebody diving, a bad pitch, bad referees, etc., etc. All so tiresome. Some honesty would be nice for a change. But then too many of us mugs would wake up and pull our support knowing its all a farce. And to make a mistake like the one with Myiachi and the subs is beyond incompetence. And no matter what you think of Robben, he missed the biggest penalty of all next to a WC one that lost a CL final. Yet he came back next year and won. That's what winners do, time and again. Deal with adversity. Arsenal does not. We just promise jam tomorrow and blame everyone but ourselves.

  5. BADARSE

    Mar 14, 2014, 21:37 #47423

    Just picked up the threads on this. I saw a fair bit of the Tiny Totts game and was totally unimpressed with them, but against seemingly popular opinion on here, I thought Benfica were just a couple of rungs above them. Now that view was based on half a game but I thought they were only a 7 out of 10 team. The opponents were 5 out of 10 perhaps? In general I would expect Arsenal to perform at 8 out of 10 or above. See what counting to ten does to me 24601?

  6. Jim

    Mar 14, 2014, 20:42 #47420

    Premiership,Champs League,FA Cup the rest are all comedy cups. Europa ok for midgets like Chelsea and Spurts not for the mighty Arsenal Ronnie boy.

  7. Ron

    Mar 14, 2014, 13:48 #47390

    The 'comedy cup' that Wengers never won and was deemed a very winnable trophy by Chelsea you mean? Is Benficas performace in the CL really that much different or worse to Arsenals? I think not. You people...! Its another one of your 'comedy cups' that s needed to save your saviours nads too. Can you see the irony? Perhaps not, as theres none so blind as they who want to be.

  8. Jim

    Mar 14, 2014, 13:26 #47387

    Benfica finished third in their Champions league group behind PSG and Olympiacos. Looking great against a bunch of losers like Tottnumb is expected yet they failed to qualify. Shows how far the tiny totts are behind the big boys if they struggle in such a comedy cup.

  9. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 14, 2014, 13:17 #47385

    Tom O'Brien, yes that has been mentioned on here on before. Just as all our best players have left was the best physio in England Gary Lewin leaving as well a coincidence? If my memory serves at the time he was very keen indeed to take the England job. Was it to better himself also? maybe he too saw what the players that left saw, i suppose we'll have to wait for his book.

  10. Ron

    Mar 14, 2014, 10:17 #47381

    A good many of us so called 'glory hunters' go and support the team at games. The support is for the team not Wenger though. Do you really think a few differences of view on here represents lack of 'support'? Your a typical SKY tele type fan i suspect.As for trouncing the spuds, were you not watching Benfica? Speed, aggression,intent, technique, tactically sound, defensively strong. Attributes AW craves but doesnt create in his teams anymore. Totts are no more getting a hiding this week end on their own dirty dung heap than im playing lead gutar at the Country music festival in London!

  11. Bard

    Mar 14, 2014, 8:16 #47377

    Badarse; We all have our opinions, but that's all they are. Alarming opinions are still opinions. I like you and most others on this site think their opinions are right so we defend them. Conflict and argument is inevitable. Seeing both sides of the argument is for life not football. I have consistently posted that I think Wenger should go and I have stated my reasons for that view whether anyone else agrees with it is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. What I will always disagree with is the cult of mediocrity currently supported by many on this site. Its the malaise that runs through the club.

  12. Black Hei

    Mar 14, 2014, 5:05 #47376

    I thought we played as best as we could. The Bayern guys seem to have red bull in their blood. They press so aggressively up front for almost 90 minutes! Most teams would have been out before half time. Manzukic was sprinting at Fabianski and BFG! For goodness sake. Sprinting. At top speed. You don't see it in the EPl certainly. There is a fitness edge to the whole thing. I thought we did very well. Wenger was very flexible in his tactics and played a very low defensive line with instructions to just boot the ball direct to avoid the midfield man mark, 100mph Bayern press. And also because Bayern played a high backline to get that pressing intensity. Robben is an amazing player. But a wretch of a diver. He anticipates tackles and dive on reflax. I think he do diving drills in training. In the early 2nd half, he anticipated 2 tackles and dived on instinct. But with no tackle actually coming, he looked stupid. So he decided to roll around the pitch clutching his shins. Which made him look even dumber.

  13. BADARSE

    Mar 13, 2014, 23:12 #47375

    Jim your comment was a sound statement for me, and it will send me off to the land of nod in good spirit.

  14. Jim

    Mar 13, 2014, 23:01 #47374

    After watching that shower of s-h-i-t-e spuds this evening if we don't hit them for at least five there's something wrong. Don't agree with all this negative bull coming from the glory hunters at the moment. They seem very quick in telling Wenger how crap his team is, then they complain when we go out to the best team in the world. Maybe if you got behind them like the true fans do they may live up to your expectations.

  15. BADARSE

    Mar 13, 2014, 22:38 #47373

    Bard, what's wrong with having, or showing passion for all things Arsenal? I do think I understand your view, though I don't quite share in your perception of the situation. What worries me about many posts on here, your posts included, are the broad assumptions made. 'Equanimity is an overrated quality.' How does that work, because you say it, so it is? Many posters make these alarming statements about others, but only if the poster is perceived as an opponent. I know there is a sense of 'safety in numbers', and there is a narcissistic desire to surround and identify with like-minds, but there is a marked lack of consistency. It isn't surprising that many don't see eye to eye. Supporting the same football team is a flimsy basis for compatibility.

  16. Bard

    Mar 13, 2014, 22:18 #47372

    Pthompson; I love the passion in you're post mate but its you're passion for the manager that worries me. I have a passion for the team not the manager. Thats the problem. If you love the manager more than the team we have a problem. There is a bit of Wenger worship here. Its a father problem, the honourable loving father. We need to grow up he's a football manager nothing more. Julesd you're confused mate this is the manager that had ineligible subs on the bench for a massive euro game NHS management er I don't think so.

  17. BADARSE

    Mar 13, 2014, 22:13 #47371

    Oh dear. Looks like for Timmy it's a case of, ' Off with his head!'

  18. Tom O'Brien

    Mar 13, 2014, 21:12 #47370

    As has been mentioned before what a 'coincidence' that since the great Gary Lewin left it has literally been perpetual episodes of 'Casualty'. There was/is a theory that Lewin - being on the inside too - saw the writing on the wall thus...

  19. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 13, 2014, 17:31 #47369

    NHS, It's a pity OGL didn't run the NHS then he'd make more available for them, though it's more like a ward that would be needed, the only thing is though they'd be cluttering them up for a long time. And if/when any of them were ready to be discharged he'd probably forget they were in there and take the wrong one home.

  20. New Westlower

    Mar 13, 2014, 17:20 #47368

    Let's win this p...... FA Cup!

  21. BADARSE

    Mar 13, 2014, 16:48 #47367

    Paul Thomson bravo! I second Julesd's post. So Bard, that post was full of passion and a little red blood, bet you didn't appreciate it though, despite any claims to the contrary. Or am I mistaken? I would like to be.

  22. NHS

    Mar 13, 2014, 16:43 #47366

    We need more beds for our broken players.

  23. julesd

    Mar 13, 2014, 15:35 #47365

    PAUL THOMSON Bravo to you, well said.

  24. Paul Thomson

    Mar 13, 2014, 15:33 #47364

    All I'm saying is leave out the over the top personal attacks against a Manager who is an Arsenal man through and through. I'm fully aware he could be better tactically and has failed to deliver what is required over several transfer markets. However, he has revolutionised our club off the pitch and previously brought success on the pitch so lets win the FA Cup, give the League our best shot and back the team in the meantime.

  25. BADARSE

    Mar 13, 2014, 15:11 #47363

    Julesd as Alice said, 'I have seen a cat without a smile, but never a smile without a cat!' I might say, 'I have understood purpose without negativity, but never understood negativity without purpose.' @ Bard, you are getting confused with Humpty Dumpty.

  26. Arsene apologist

    Mar 13, 2014, 14:54 #47362

    Now that Ozil is injured, combined with all the others that are out we must be underdogs against Wigan. So no disgrace if they beat us and no reason for Arsene not to sign the new contract.

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 13, 2014, 12:46 #47361

    It's a couple of days after yet another failure (not unexpected i know) but long enough for everything to be rosy in the garden of arsene and his apologists again, after all it was just a blip.

  28. julesd

    Mar 13, 2014, 12:37 #47360

    BARD I can't agree with you, but if Arsene Wenger ran the NHS it wouldn't be in the sorry state we have before us! He is a great man and charming too! It shouldn't matter what he earns, at least he isn't in charge of the so called legalised banks in the country who take you for every penny they can.

  29. Bard

    Mar 13, 2014, 12:04 #47359

    PT; Julesd you are right it was a creditable performance but that's the problem. We were light years behind BM in almost all depts. if you accept creditable as the limit of your ambition then the current Arsenal set up is perfect for it. I don't at least not for the money they charge me. I couldn't care less whether Wenger is honourable or not. He's a footbal manager he's not running the NHS.He"spaid a fortune to deliver trophies and to date he hasn't delivered. The anxiety about our FA cup expectations says it all. We should win without question but such is our track record of blowing opportunities that we have to 'not get ahead of ourselves '. Badarse; feel sorry for you mate. You've lost your mojo. Equanimity is an overrated quality. It makes everything seem grey. You need more blood red in your life. Footballs about passion if it's about anything. Fence sitting just gives you splinters in your arse.

  30. Ozzie

    Mar 13, 2014, 11:49 #47358

    Even here in Australia the media barons and their puppets have ruined sport. They've taken the game(s) away from the people and pander to big business. Our historic cricket competitions have all given way to media-driven "big bash" cricket?? The players aren't interested in playing traditional cricket - only big money show pieces - like the football CL over there that has devalued traditional division football and the FA Cup. Money money money!

  31. julesd

    Mar 13, 2014, 10:17 #47357

    The odd cheshire cat would be nice though, at least the last thing we would see is a smile!!

  32. jeff wright

    Mar 13, 2014, 9:50 #47356

    I don't go along with claims that our defence was excellent. Mertesaker was badly at fault for the BM goal and Koss again gave away a needless penalty, if you push Robben in the back , even slightly, then it is hardly a big surprise that he goes down as though he has been shot Oscar Pistolorius. Our defending is all too often in big games a bit naive and panicky, that's why we so rarely win any of them. A top striker with pace ,a top CB and GK are needed to improve our chances against the top sides , and a manager with a bit more tactical nous than training ground run around cones Wenger wouldn't go amiss either. Thankfully it's only the spuds up next and they are no top side .

  33. BADARSE

    Mar 13, 2014, 8:13 #47354

    Good morning gentlemen. No input from me except to say thanks to Paul Thomson and Julesd for convincing me in some small way that I haven't slipped into a parallel universe, though am about to crawl back into the magic rabbit hole. Did you know that Lewis Carroll only ever referred to the 'Mad Tea Party'? Wonder what he might have written about had he spent a day reading this site? 24601, took your advice, and am still continuously counting to ten...over, and over, and over again.

  34. Julesd

    Mar 13, 2014, 5:56 #47353

    God help Arsenal if you lot weren't supporting them, would hate to see what you would write if you were the opposition! Arsenal played very well against BM but as usual the divers won the day, there is so much hot air about getting to grips with divers but it never happens, nor will it! Come on Arsenal bring home the FA Cup, mind you there will still be the negative bunch on here. Found it really funny that the media boys were moaning about Arsene making a comment about the referee and how shocking they thought it was, Ferguson used to do it every week, never a murmur from them then, too afraid I suppose.

  35. Peter Hughes

    Mar 12, 2014, 22:46 #47352

    We will never know what would have happened if the 1st leg had remained 11 against 11. A narrow win draw or probably least likely a 2 goal plus advantage. Bayern were busting a gut to beat us & resorted to cynical fouling of AOC in particular.It was not too painful to watch & was afine battling performance which would have been perfect had we taken a 0-0 or 1-0 to Munich. Twice the current best team in Europe have failed to beat us at home. Rubbish to say they were not worried as they already had a lead.That meant no pressure on them & that would mean blowing most teams away. We did the best that could be expected & had we only needed 1 more goal we would have had a chance. As for Robben , football is a contact sport & the slight touch he got would not have floored a toddler. Cheating bastard & shame on football for not charging players after the game for blatant cheating including any Arsenal players. I hate it with a vengence. I applauded the team from my armchair & anyone who wants to complain about that performance , well I doubt your ability to judge a football match. Battling Arsenal that many have bemoaned we were not capable of.

  36. Cyril

    Mar 12, 2014, 22:14 #47351

    Brewster, will you leave if I ask you politely ?

  37. Ron

    Mar 12, 2014, 22:04 #47350

    Arsenal have been very good for Arsene too, very ,very good in fact. Arsene is no victim either. Hes a clever man who has known where his bread's been buttered. Hes had many a chance to go to far bigger Clubs down the years and has been loyal, but there might be an underlying reason why hes stayed put nontheless. You ll find oo that most of the need for change posts call for radical change in the direction of the Club by those above Arsene. The demand for change isn't just directed at him by many of us. Re energising the Club wont happen by the change of a coach alone. As do that, things generally and Arsene may as well remain.

  38. Roy

    Mar 12, 2014, 22:00 #47349

    Beaten over two legs by the better side. No complaints there. Until we inject some pace up front, it simply isn't going to happen. Groundhog Day as so many others have said. How Robben wasn't booked for that dive, I'll never know. The two players who were covering up our deficiencies in the striking department were lost to injury and so it has come to pass that OGL's chickens have come home to roost. I really do think that he may have taken us as far as he can. Reminds me of a couple in a dead marriage who just stay together for the sake of the kids. Sorry, best analogy I can think of after a couple of beers, just hope my next one is of the celebratory nature on Sunday ! COYG.

  39. Paul Thomson

    Mar 12, 2014, 20:56 #47348

    Find it pathetic that after a creditable performance and result last night so many are straight back on the Wenger Out bandwagon. We are favourites to finally lift a trophy with the FA Cup and still in the hunt for the Premiership - surely the time is not now to reignite the petty infighting and pessimistic vibes. Whatever you think of Wenger he is an honourable man who although extremely we'll paid, has devoted the best years of his career to our club and has always tried to do his very best for Arsenal. The over the top abuse is totally out of order. Concentrate on supporting the team whilst we are in the hunt for trophies and maybe, just maybe 9 years without a trophy will be no more.

  40. Diver Robben

    Mar 12, 2014, 20:53 #47347

    So that was the great Arsenal yeah. Can the manager count?

  41. au revoir wenger

    Mar 12, 2014, 20:48 #47346

    Wenger can **** right off and take his statue with him

  42. brucegrove

    Mar 12, 2014, 20:42 #47345

    no striker on the bench..ffs

  43. Perry Grove

    Mar 12, 2014, 19:41 #47344

    If its speed they want I'm your man. I am also the carrot.

  44. Carlos

    Mar 12, 2014, 19:13 #47343

    SGRB@5022 I am going to take issue with what you say regarding Robben, with the manager and others' voices "trying to give the impression the difference between the teams was Robben diving are deluding themselves". I do not believe they are deluding themselves, rather they are trying to deceive others. His many acolytes and apologists will buy into this rubbish as they have much of what he has come out with in recent years.The evidence of continued failure over the last 9 seasons is as plain as day to all but the most deluded.

  45. Gunner SA

    Mar 12, 2014, 19:08 #47342

    Arsenal was out of the European Cup on September 1, 2013 when Wenger didn't buy a striker and the team lost (rather than drawing and clinching top spot) in Naples. Man City and Chelsea can be defeated and maximum points be taken from the over matches? Five pints of whatever you're drinking Kev!!

  46. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 12, 2014, 18:46 #47341

    @smee, Ashburton Grove refers to the place the stadium is located, just as Highbury referred to what was in fact called Arsenal Stadium. Emirates is a temporary name lasting for the duration of the sponsorship, whilst this stadium will always be located in Ashburton Grove. So some people prefer a permanent to a temporary name. Hope that clears it up for you.

  47. smee

    Mar 12, 2014, 18:33 #47340

    Can someone please explain to me why some people are in denial and can only call The Emirates as The Grove.Do they also deny the money paid for the naming rights or would they prefer to go back with no sponsorship money paid to the club. Perhaps they would like to start another club like AFC Wimbledon. Perhaps they could go back to playing at Woolwich. They could probably start a works team from the now defunct armourments factory.

  48. Website Editor

    Mar 12, 2014, 18:23 #47339

    I said a win was not essential on Sunday. Never discussed the idea of importance. Sure, for bragging rights, it is important (but not essential - Spurs won't brag if they only draw), but I was discussing it in the context of what remains of Arsenal's title challenge. Beating Spurs - in THAT context - would be meaningless if Arsenal failed to beat Chelsea and Man City. I was looking at the bigger picture of the club's season rather than worrying about the ongoing row with the noisy neighbours.

  49. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Mar 12, 2014, 18:07 #47338

    Thank goodness this total distraction is over. The only thing which is beyond the Moron's control are the tendency of the teams who UEFA feel should progress to get matters arranged to their satisfaction (not just us as victims but after the third time you do wonder). The Moron does not understand that he has to finish 3rd and not 4th in the league, and has to finish top of his group and has to acquire and use correctly the best squad he can. WE now have a cast iron chance in the F.A Cup and are only 4 points adrift in the League. Any other half decent manager would secure silverware from this position. Not our Moron. He has decided that there is no need to play Flamini and will not play the only player in the team who can shoot properly. It will be his absolute raison d'etre, his self satisfied joy, to deliberately screw up the rest of the season. Of course our team fought hard. They are good people. Watch the Moron destroy them as he has destroyed players for the last 10 years.

  50. Daniel MK Gooner

    Mar 12, 2014, 17:30 #47337

    Says a lot that with 10 to go I was contemplating turning it over to the T20 on Sky ( and I'm definitely not a Johnny Come Lately either) I would take 5th as long as we won the FA Cup all day long

  51. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 12, 2014, 17:05 #47336

    John, good point after all the times he has turned his nose up at the domestic Cups over the years (along with his apologists) it may now be one that saves his bacon.

  52. The Editor Says A Win\'s Not Important on Sunday - Unbelievable

    Mar 12, 2014, 16:49 #47335

    UNBELIEVABLE

  53. Bard

    Mar 12, 2014, 15:47 #47334

    Men v boys sadly. Our best player was the Ox. Robben is an irrelevance. Who cares what he does. Don't agree Kev that Sat isn't important. Beating the Spuds is always crucial. Worrying the way we' re falling like flies, Wilshere now Ozil, who is next. The AKB's have gone very quiet, almost lost for words. The anxiety is about to increase as the tough games come thick and fast. In my view we're one thrashing away from a capitulation. Are we seeing the dying embers of a once great empire? Fascinating times.

  54. artetaisasubbuteomodel

    Mar 12, 2014, 15:43 #47333

    amazing how it's ignored time and again: arteta is in the key position and he's nothing more than a stale lump of dough waddling about, pretending it matters by waving his arms around when a free kick is given against, and generally diving in and getting left for dead as the opposition midfield swarms forward. and don't get me startedon his denilson-style passing....

  55. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 12, 2014, 15:18 #47332

    So big bad Robben is been used as the scapegoat in the usual quarters after a defeat, makes a change i suppose.

  56. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 12, 2014, 15:01 #47331

    We weren't disgraced but the fact is OGL's and the clubs Quest for his Holy Grail ends yet again but were any surprised? well not the realists anyway. Can you imagine what we would be hearing from the wengerites if by some miracle we'd have gone through last night? We have to concentrate on the CL, the domestic/FA Cup isn't as important and we'd be better off out of it with sacrificed maybe even been thrown in, with the old favorite we have bigger fish to fry. Well we haven't and never did, suddenly the domestic/FA Cup has become a very big fish indeed and our real Holy Grail but a lot of fans knew that already, it's our only real hope of ending our eight/nine potless years. A win at the lane not essential Ed? i think it's highly essential, surely your not getting excuses in early? Only jesting, see where you coming from ref the league but as you say we have to do the chavs and the blue mancs (highly unlikely i know, but maybe arsene could ask uwe Rossler for advice on that)and win every other match. Like i've said the FA Cup has suddenly become important, but it always was, and is our true Holy Grail lets hope OGL thinks the same and takes the real chance we have and delivers.

  57. Tom O'B

    Mar 12, 2014, 14:41 #47330

    Its quite simple (again) - Wenger out. Ancelotti or Hiddink in. Danny Fiszman (RIP) wouldn't have stood for this year on year crap ages ago and got rid of Wenger. Even Dein would have been/would be objective about his chum and neighbour, seen the bigger picture - how much bigger can it get - and said thanks and goodbye. A kind of strange and ironic 'bonus' is that whoever would come in would have a ready made treasure/war-chest to avail of. That in itself is a no brainer. Its the itch Arsene will never scratch - the CL.

  58. johnnyhawleylovinggooner

    Mar 12, 2014, 14:12 #47329

    Paid the price for not buying a top forward with lots of pace.without one it is like being a great technical boxer with no punch.you will look great but a lucky punch will finish you or when the going gets tough you have no punch to finish your opponent. When his career is over I hope Robben spends his time wondering how many medals have been won,and how many he cheated for and if he would of won anyway playing with some decorum. How can you give your children those medals?

  59. jjetplane

    Mar 12, 2014, 14:09 #47328

    I am a big fan of the villians of the game and have always thought Robben to be just one of the most dangerous attacking players in the game. Whatever you say the focus of him and his teamates is second to none. Arsenal played as well as a middling opposition could against a side like Bayern. Over two seasons Bayern have done the damage from the go with little pressure on themselves. It really is men against boys. Hartson got well stuck into Arsene's brand last night and made some good passionate points. That Wenger can only retort with 'bloody diving cheats' syndrome just sums up the fakeness of it all. As many have said, the dosh is in the bank so let's have a look at the contract and while we're at it - 'who are we going to seel the Ox to?' RON bang on the head about the middle classes taking over Arsenal. How they love the f...... artistry of it all! Better be some performance at the weekend.

  60. Mark

    Mar 12, 2014, 13:55 #47327

    Can Wenger be expected to take this team forward ??? No so he should be out

  61. Peter Wain

    Mar 12, 2014, 13:17 #47325

    I think that these matches highlighted (and not for the first time) the complete ridiculous transfer policy we have had for the last few years. Giroud was Giroud a willing but a very slow average striker not the top top quality which wenger drones on about. Also the lack of pace in the mid field allowed Bayern too much room. No doubt the directors will be praying for an FA Cup win to allow Wenger to sign his new contract.

  62. King Jeremy

    Mar 12, 2014, 13:01 #47324

    Another March, another European campaign at an end, but do the club give a s**t? Like hell they do. The £25M (or however much we get for getting out of the group stages) has been banked and thoughts turn to next year's qualification. One does have to seriously question the point of it all though. Money? yes, certainly, in fact olny that. Ah, but qualification is essential to attract the top, top quality I hear you scream. Really? So why are we so far away from those top teams in Europe? The gulf was massive tonight - as it was last year and the year before that v Milan, and the two years prior to that v Barcelona. No, Arsenal in the Champions League means revenue for the club - that is the sole reason for their lauding of qualification. Full stadiums x 4 at Grade A prices - thank you very much. You can forgive some of us for secretly thinking that coming 5th would no be so bad in that it would trigger genuine change in the team make-up. After all, what difference would it make since the CL=top players is clearly bunkum.

  63. Green Hut

    Mar 12, 2014, 12:59 #47323

    Our huff and puff didn't manage to achieve anything else than yet more semi-respectable failure last night, but had we merely drawn in Naples it would surely have been enough to beat Zenit, a team with the worst qualifying record of ONE win in 6 games incl getting thrashed by Austria Vienna. The irony is that the player who REALLY knocked us out of this year's Champions League by scoring the winning goal that night in Italy is one who we wanted, who we could afford and who wanted to come. And I thought that this was the year everything was going to change. There are reasons we went out last night, but bad luck, diving and dodgy refs are not among them.

  64. kilkenny cat

    Mar 12, 2014, 12:45 #47322

    Our best chance of cl has gone. Better Arsenal teams than this one have failed miserably. While lesser teams like chavs manure and Liverpool have won the cup,although all had luck on the way. The reason is tactics,preperation and a will to win. All things that Wenger lacks. Dont agree with all this english players would be better,they are not. But buying 2nd rate dross is not the answer either. Giroud is average against top teams and needs a quick partner next to him. The fa cup is vital for club,fans and players. We need a trophy. But if we dont then wenger reign must end

  65. Ron

    Mar 12, 2014, 12:33 #47321

    WENGER OUT - Yes, many of the fouls were bought and always are. The protagonists in the game (all of those in the squads)accept conning and diving and operate on the priciple of what ther oppoent can do, i can do better. How often do you see players react to a opponents dive? Hardly ever as they know they ll try the same in a few minutes. You see them smiling to each other. They love it. They dont care if a game is lost to a dive or a dodgy pen.The salarys the same. Its an atitude of whats goes around comes around. Its very sad. Wenger knows the scaore. His coments on Robben and Co are to create an illsuion to the fans that he actually cares about the cheating. He d buy Robben tomorrow if BM were prepared to sell him at a give away cost.Hes a Wenger type player in all aspects of what he offers. Wengers very sly and disingenous in his 'explanations' for defeat.

  66. Don Froth

    Mar 12, 2014, 12:23 #47320

    Lacked bottle after we had got our lucky equaliser, then was the time to really go for them, especially as Bayern were miles away from there best. Overall very disappointing but not altogether that suprising, just summed up our lack of character. People can have a pop at Robben all day long but we were not good enough!

  67. Ron

    Mar 12, 2014, 12:22 #47319

    Jeff - Yes, but last night was 'success' if you accept the modern definition of what success is in football.Wenger and Arsenal hae embraced it to its hilt. There's the faultline i.e the conflict between a fans notion of the word and the Clubs version. The thing is, there are 16 other Clubs who would love that 'success'. Thats football now. You pays your money and you takes your choice or you drop the game as i (largely) and many have and many still are to do the same. The newer breed of fan, may well be happy as a pig in sh--te with it. Their conditioning is different to ours. we saw our best days as fans when football was still a 'sport' largely and fought over on (and off the pitch!) I feel for the newer fans, really do. They l not experience the passion, the glory and electricity that football used to invoke, but there you go.

  68. WENGER OUT

    Mar 12, 2014, 12:14 #47318

    Those who are complaining about BM's play acting just look at the Ox last night. He was brilliant, but other than the Dante challenge, I'm not sure there was a foul committed that he didn't buy - Even the Dante foul was bought to an extent. Yes Robben is a horrible little diver, but there wasn't a single dive which wasn't preceded by contact. We are in danger of becoming a little blinkered on here sometimes - Maybe a few too many people are swallowing Wenger's diversionary BS. To turn up to a game against the European champs and not even be able to fill the bench - Now that is embarrassing! Small timers or what?

  69. Ron

    Mar 12, 2014, 12:07 #47317

    Gaz - I know mate, youre totally right. The fans, many of them, are institutionalised by the near cult of 'Wengerism'. Theyre scared of change, scared to challenge him or the Clubs ways and methods and scared to say enoughs enough.They assume the Clubs structure will collapse if hes not there, Amazing. Its an ideal Club for such a grip be held tight. The fans at Arsenal in my view are and always have been largely cosmopolitan, quite accepting, too tolerant and docile and with a large section of the middle class supporting them. They love to chat about the return on invetsments and healthy balance sheets. Its got far worse since moving to that stadium. Its why the atmosphere there is so muted and sterile. A good many have forgoten what goes on on the pitch, have forgotten what being a football supporter is and live in a Wenger/Club induced trance.

  70. Gaz

    Mar 12, 2014, 11:56 #47316

    I hear you Ron! Point I was making was that if we did exactly the same as Bayern our own fans would find some way of justifying it. Speaking of our own fans tell them we're one of the welthiest Clubs in the world and they're as happy as larry. Tell them we're one of the best supported Clubs around and its break open the champagne time. Make them pay the hightest ticket prices in world football and again in the main its not an issue. Go out every year in the last 16 of europes flagship competition and its ok as long as we put some effort into it! go figure...

  71. jeff wright

    Mar 12, 2014, 11:35 #47315

    Wenger was noticeably more animated last night on the touch line than he is when we are playing domestic cup games. It was all to no avail though, as he once again confirmed that he is indeed Inspector Clueless when it comes to trying to beat top opponents. The Miyaichi farce that left the Inspector a man short on the bench also did nothing to dispute the claims that his managerial skills are in decline. The usual pre-planned late substitutions with Flam, and young inexperienced Gnabry, appearing to try and make an impact only exposed the lack of depth in our squad, as did Sanago when he was sent on late at Stoke. Pep was like a Black - Jack player in a cassino he didn't know if he should stick or twist with his 2 goal lead and like his players he looked very nervous and jumpy . Wenger though lacked the tactical nous to exploit this situation and with his cautious approach he just settled for another brave heroic defeat in Europe to add to his ever growing list of them.

  72. Ron

    Mar 12, 2014, 11:16 #47314

    Ozzie - Right with you mate. That CL is ruining the very fabric of domestic football by its tentacles having poisened the attitude of the Clubs in it towards domestic football, but its there, its the big earner, so every Club who aspire to be a 'top Club'(whatever that means)need to win it to be labelled as such.Clubs such as Arsenal are compromised domestically to such a degree that they no longer have a clear vision of what they want to achieve, but falling out of the top 4 would give them it. Remaining in the top 4 leaves them as a Club who make the numbers up iN the CL. Theyve no real designs on winninng it, its the taking part that counts for them. They are still at heart a corinthian Club after all. Theyve no real or urgent desire to win the title either. 2nd to 4th gives the same 'rewards' and its far cheaper to hand about at that level. The end result is mundane sterility. The FAC has proved agood infusion of exitement though for the fans, the first for years. The players too i suspect. Deep down, the Club doesnt care for it though, unless it serves as a lever to curry for them a bit of time, fan favour and false fervour to massage the diet of spin and bollocks theyve fed the fans for years.

  73. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 12, 2014, 11:12 #47313

    All the talk about diving - German teams in particular, club and country, have had this fine art down since the 1966 World Cup - wasn't it poetic justice to see Lahm get nudged off the ball and then lay there watching the equalizer slammed home. We were beaten over two legs by the better team, but I think people are starting to suss out Guardiola and his lack of a plan B too

  74. Unchives

    Mar 12, 2014, 11:07 #47312

    It was a good performance by the lads & im sure we would have gone through if we stuck the penalty away in the first leg. People are building up this Bayern team as something invincible and they are not. It is Wenger's fault for not buying the extra striker we desperately need, and why oh why he let Ozil take the penalty only he knows. However despite all this I cant understand why some fans would want Wenger out no matter what, and will not unite, until the end of March or this season.

  75. Ron

    Mar 12, 2014, 11:02 #47311

    True enough Gaz, he was a useless diving sh--e as you say, but the 'professionalism' in that BM sqaud seems institutionalised. Keeper apart there wasnt a player inn red who didt con and dive last night. Theyve no need to do it as theyre very good, but BM teams have been known for it for decades, right back to Hoeness' s time in the early 70s. I bet every player in the squad can duck, dive and complete a mean tax return as well with him in charge there!

  76. UTU

    Mar 12, 2014, 11:00 #47310

    The defence, Goalie, Ox and Podolski played well. The Midfield left holes that saw an unmarked Schweinsteiger open the scoring. Giroud is decent squad but he is not an Ian Wright or a Suarez. The Arsenal put up a good show against a nervous Bayern side. Lacked quality up front to get a result, all to predictable.

  77. Ozzie

    Mar 12, 2014, 10:59 #47309

    Still, one cant help wondering what might have been with Ramsey and Walcott up front, not that I ever cared about this media showpiece. It's just a distraction from the REAL football - ENGLISH comps and has taken the gloss off a comp (FA Cup) that has been enjoyed and looked forward to worldwide for decades. I hope Arsenal miss out on the top 4 club, give Wenger the boot, appoint a manager with fresh ideas and a bo(u)ld attitude then focus on the League and cup double. Then,add more young English talent to the squad and onsell some of the ageing baggage. time for changes!!

  78. Gaz

    Mar 12, 2014, 10:52 #47308

    Remind me when Eboue was cheating and diving his way around football pitches in for us were the calls to get rid as loud as those calls that Robbens a cheating diving w*nker?

  79. Bill Murray

    Mar 12, 2014, 10:44 #47307

    GROUNDHOG DAY. Same s***, different season. Zzzzz. Look. Wenger will NEVER win the CL because he isn't good enough. It really is that simple. Tactically incompetent, a shocking motivator. Isn't it hilarious for years fans have begged him to spend money, he spends £42m on Ozil and totally mismanages him! Then when he doesn't spend money, he fails anyway. Giroud had yet another ridiculous big match where he managed one shot on goal all night. His lack of pace, movement and technical skill just ain't funny anymore. Joke. That is the rubbish we are stuck with. Wenger yet another last 16 elimination. Simeone and Klopp put together don't earn half of Wenger's annual salary, neither has anywhere near Wenger's financial muscle, yet both have outperformed this witless specialist in failure in Europe. It's frankly boring. Arsenal were poor last night, they were utterly cowardly, never had Bayern on the ropes, it was just all too easy, same as....oh hold on, LAST season! A true reflection of the manager: cowardly team, cowardly manager.

  80. Stan

    Mar 12, 2014, 10:34 #47306

    You should know what to expect when playing these cheating foreigners especially Robben who won the tie by his cheating in the first leg and Bayern will probably go on to win the Champions league through his diving. Chelsea will probably win the Premiership through their play acting and the victims will get top four through theirs, who says cheats never prosper.

  81. Fozzy

    Mar 12, 2014, 10:29 #47305

    Unlike Johnny Lynch, I thought the editorial was a fair and accurate representation of what occurred last night, and the fact that we played with real heart. It's such a shame that Bayern has developed a nasty cynical streak. I particularly disliked the way that the only way to stop The Ox was to constantly kick him up in the air, and as for Robben, he really belongs back at the home of those plastic Odious Chavs from West London.

  82. N4

    Mar 12, 2014, 10:19 #47304

    Look the club got its 20m in the bank so job's well done!!! This club is a disgrace and if we win the FA cup I guess it'll be a good reason for AW new contract if that has not been done already! AW is victim of his own demise but killing the team even more!!! AW needs to go!

  83. Ron

    Mar 12, 2014, 10:18 #47303

    Creditable as you say Kev, but i hope Wenger looked closely and beneath his excuses for the medias ears. Arsenal are very naive at that level, accepting that Guardiola has ramped them up to a kevel of cheating diving and conning to an even higher level than were Barcelaona when he was there. Arsenal were out of their depth in so many areas of the pitch. the lack of a top forward shows badly in such games and so does Cazorlas limitations. Defence fought so hard, but when youre a degfender with no crativity and pace in front of you, 90 mins is a long time. Only OX seemed comfortable in tnat company last ight that tells it all about Arsenal and Wenger doesnt it.

  84. Gaz

    Mar 12, 2014, 10:13 #47302

    Certainly can't fault the effort put in last night. Every player-even Giroud who was mostly awful-can hold their heads high but until we start to either win the groups we're seeded to win or perform in both legs we'll always struggle. Ultimately though whilst there's every chance of silverware at home I feel this Comp will always be beyond Wenger. He's certainly had a good go at it but in 16 attempts he's failed to go beyond the QF's 14 times and whilst there's the odd excuse for some in other cases-2002-2004- the side should have been more than capable of winning this comp. Even last night whilst I know we had injuries if he'd have picked that side with a full squad available nobody would have complained. If Wenger does sign a new deal after winning the FA cup it might just start another period of success at home. As for the Champions league that'll always be beyond Wenger...

  85. WENGER OUT

    Mar 12, 2014, 10:00 #47301

    The only explanation I can see for not starting Flamini was that Wenger wanted a calm penalty taker in Arteta - Surely someone else in our squad can take a penalty?! The biggest crime Wenger has committed this season - I know it's been said time and time again - he didn't sign a top class striker! Even Loic Remy would do a job! It's so painfully obvious in games like last night, when we create very few opportunities to make Bayern sweat, that Giroud is little more than a useless lump - Incredibly sloppy in possession, controls 1 in 4 balls that reach his feet, reaches/controls even fewer that don't - With him upfront we're just incredibly toothless, a blunt stale team with no ideas. He's adequate against relegation fodder, but that's about it. Had we not stuffed up the Suarez saga, we could be looking at a league/cup double and a creditable CL run, instead it will just be another nearly season where we scrape 4th and more jam tomorrow BS from Gazidis a Wenger - I would love us to win the FAC, but hopefully it's just a way Wenger can leave on a high rather than his cue to sign a new contract.

  86. Matthew Bazell

    Mar 12, 2014, 9:59 #47300

    There is no player I hate more at this current time than Robben. He has so much talent yet degrades the game with his diving. Someone please stick the boot on this little toad and hurt him for real so he doesn;t have to act. As for our lot, well played, but we shouldn't be happy with just not being humiliated. In 17 years we've only had one year where we have made an impact. Not good enough, our record in Europe needs to be addressed.

  87. chris dee

    Mar 12, 2014, 9:56 #47299

    It was a bit of a 'shrug of the shoulders'night. We all knew deep down we were out after the game at the Emirates. I still can't get over how Arsene sends out his teams against the really top sides.No change in tactics ,no nullifying of danger men,no extra defensive strategy just play as if we were playing Fulham (no offence you know what I mean ) in the Premiership.A 0-0 at home against Bayern would have been a great result, but no it's against Arsene's principles so bye bye Europe again. We can still cause damage in the Premiership and we know if the team plays to it's full potential we can win the FA Cup so it's still game on. But no ifs and buts if we don't win the cup Arsene must go.

  88. Stuart

    Mar 12, 2014, 9:40 #47298

    Well, it lasted as long as expected. Knock-out stage first round. Same as always. No progress year after year.

  89. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Mar 12, 2014, 9:33 #47297

    Robben is a cheating diver. But that is not the reason we went out to them. He dramatized his fall for the pen in the first leg but it was a pen. It was not him that sent Chezzers off, it was the rules of the game. He did not get a pen for his first dive yesterday, the second was saved and was irrelevant at that stage of the game anyway. Voices, like Wenger's, trying to give the impression the difference between the teams was Robben diving are deluding themselves. There is no hope of progressing as a team to BM's level if you misguidedly believe you're already at their level and it was just 'injustice' that stopped you competing with them.

  90. Johnny Lynch

    Mar 12, 2014, 9:18 #47296

    Another bland editorial , another sitting on the fence article from a man who should be using his postion to galvanise supporters and get rid of Wenger .. You can stick your magazine from now mate

  91. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 12, 2014, 9:13 #47295

    Arjen Robben, you are a disgrace to your profession. Diving, "winning" free kicks, complaining to the ref. A one-trick pony - that trick being to hold onto the ball long enough before drawing a foul. As to your general demeanour, the only thing missing is an SS stormtroopers uniform. Anyway, a modicum of pride regained, but a pyrric victory. After 4 exits in a row at this stage, is the penny finally going to drop.

  92. ThailandGooner

    Mar 12, 2014, 8:58 #47294

    OK, we are out. But did we expect anything less? I had my hopes as we all do but lets win the Cup and move on. It worked for Manchester City. Albeit with the millions they had, but we are The Arsenal. We need to have that Graham spirit.

  93. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 12, 2014, 8:57 #47293

    I thought our defence was excellent TV & BS in particular, TV is so much better in the air than Gibbs & Monreal so it reduced the threat from set pieces and far post crosses. Sagna has a great attitude and I would offer him a 3 year deal tomorrow. What last night showed was how difficult it was for our smaller midfield players to get away from the midfield grip Bayern imposed on them, only the Ox had the pace and power to break free from the tight marking and we of course missed Ramsey. However IMO the major problem was the complete lack of any pace up front, something has to be done about Giroud, either teach him a better running technique or unhitch that caravan he has been towing around the pitch since he joined us - he must be the slowest centre forward on the planet.