Are we really entering the Third Wenger Era?

The Arsenal manager will only be truly revered once he steps down from the job



Are we really entering the Third Wenger Era?


It's a remarkable thing that after eighteen years in the job the jury is still out among some Arsenal supporters on whether Arsene Wenger is the man they want to manage their football club. I guess whichever club you picked, you would find periods where the popularity of the manager waxed and waned. I know of one extremely intelligent and well-balanced Manchester United season ticket holder who never changed his early opinion that Sir Alex Ferguson was not a good manager of Manchester a United and was delighted when he announced his resignation. I wonder what he thinks now?

I mention this because on 22nd March Arsene Wenger will celebrate his 1000th match in charge of Arsenal Football Club. It is a remarkable achievement that will be debated in the press because his 1000th match will be against his Nemesis, (to me the utterly obnoxious) Jose Mourinho who has veered in his return to British football from referring to Arsene like a long lost relative (did anyone note, because Mourinho went out of his way to accentuate it, the phoney greeting before the Capital One Cup Tie this season?) to calling him ' a specialist in failure'. Wenger rightly did not respond to that most crass of remarks, but I personally felt a revulsion that a remarkable man had been vilified in this way. Imagine my astonishment when on a couple of well- known Arsenal websites, the overwhelming reaction was that Mourinho was right.

It pointed out the astonishing schism in Arsenal supporters between those who believe Wenger has done an extraordinary job at the helm of our club for 18 years and those who would replace him with any number of potential candidates. Over the years fashions have changed but I have seen people suggest the likes of Pardew, Redknapp, Moyes (ha ha), McLeish and O'Neill to replace him. Here I must confess that in a Gooner end of season poll a few seasons ago I responded to a question that asked who might replace Wenger when he stepped down as Arsenal manager with the answer Andre Villas-Boas who had just won the Europa League with Porto. That just shows how fashions in rating managers can alter quite radically over a short period of time.

As Wenger approaches what I think we have to regard as a phenomenal milestone, the press have started to pick up on a common theme. The first nine years of his reign were the Glory years, the next nine the Trophyless years and now we enter his third era. The wisdom among Fleet Street's finest is that these years (and there can't be nine surely?) will be the years when Arsene splashes the cash and restores Arsenal's position at the top of English and possibly of European football. There is decent backing for this hypothesis although we might re-classify the earlier periods as the Highbury Years and the Years of Austerity to underline the way in which the influx of huge amounts of foreign cash - 'financial doping' as Arsene refers to them - have so tilted the playing field against most sides in the top echelon of English football.

But, is this correct or is it a romantic tale told by a Fleet Street getting all sentimental about the senior statesman of English football? I think it is rather convenient to compartmentalise his Arsenal career as neatly as this but it also may sell him short in cataloguing the last nine years as failure. There can't be many Arsenal fans who aren't heartily sick of hearing the continuing dirge that it is now 7/8/9 years since Arsenal won a trophy. How many other teams face this sort of scrutiny?

It is amazing that our neighbours from N. 17 who haven't contended for let alone won the League for FIFTY THREE YEARS don't have this fact rammed down their throat at every opportunity. It rankles that the most popular radio sports station have a programme in which they debate 'the Daily Arsenal'. In truth it doesn't rankle much because the untalented and vindictive obsessive, who registers the tiniest of blips on the Richter Scale of importance in football is really not worthy of serious consideration. But in truth we have an ongoing critique of Wenger's abilities which suggests that the man is a failure and needs to be replaced before Arsenal can regain their former glories.

Let's examine the evidence. In trophy terms Wenger has landed seven major trophies including two doubles and an unbeaten league season and also taken the club to within ten minutes of the Champions League. He has also overseen qualification for the Champions League 17 times in a row. We are well on our way to making it 18 as I write.

Yet his critics, and even within the fan base there are many of them, feel that under Wenger we will never win another trophy. They cite an inability to win the big matches, an unwillingness to spend big or spend at all at times and a feeling that we are in a Groundhog Day scenario that sees us continually fall short of the highest prizes. These are all fair points. I, myself have written in the Gooner about this Groundhog Day feeling. I liken this feeling of frustration to the ups and downs you have in any long relationship. The managerial grass looks greener as far as we are concerned with managers who are the flavour of the month but have no concerted record of success. There are of course the very big beasts of football management like Guardiola, Mourinho or Ancelotti who have won the big prizes regularly. But have they had to operate as Wenger did for a long period in which Arsenal were a selling club and a team that were severely limited in what they could do in the transfer market? Could we imagine, Mourinho for instance staying at a club for nine years where he was forced to make a net profit on transfers. Could he do this and still deliver trophies? Could he do this and unfailingly deliver Champions League?

Wenger opponents, I nearly said Wenger haters because I know several Arsenal fans who hate his style and wince at his interviews, claim that despite the financial restrictions the opportunity to spend has been there for several seasons. They point to apparent cash reserves in excess of £200 million and feel that had we applied some of this cash to the team we could have closed out at least two titles in recent seasons. The recent transfer window fiasco in which we failed to recruit a much-needed striker and ended up loaning an injured Swede who has yet to play for us suggested that Wenger's conservatism has grown as a result of having to scrimp and save in the years following the move away from Highbury. His larger purchases Reyes, Arshavin and Wiltord (and the churlish would cite Ozil) have been criticised as not being successful but any assessment of Wenger in the transfer market has to cite the incredible purchases he has made who rate among the greatest players in the history of our wonderful club.

If you ask me whether I prefer our new home to Highbury, I always point out that my heart will always be at our original home. It was a place I fell in love with on my first visit and that feeling never left me. But I also accept that we had to seek a new site and build a new stadium and this enormous challenge has been facilitated by the phenomenal consistency of Wenger's attainment. I believe that only Ferguson and Wenger could have achieved this given the spending restrictions that ensued. It is little short of a miracle that we have not slipped out of the challengers for the top prizes in our football. Having said this I do believe that Wenger' s need to balance the books has made him too risk-averse in trying to build a team that will restore our former glories. I believe we might have been able to win the League with a more adventurous manager but could such a manager have endured the hardships Wenger has to get in that position and would they be willing to work for so long knowing that their CV would show comparative failure? I think we know the answer and I think we need to accept that Wenger is a remarkable man who will only be truly revered when he has stepped down from the job. If this season can bring a third double it would be a huge vindication of his ideas and policy but for me an FA Cup win in May would finally lay the bogey that has hovered over the club since we moved to Ashburton Grove.

As the 1000th game approaches I believe all Arsenal fans should acknowledge a figure almost without parallel in our history who has created teams with a style of play that has radically altered the perception of the club throughout the world. I don't think I could ever be prouder of my club than when we completed the Invincible season, Many great players delivered that success but the primary architect was Wenger. Let us hope that if there is a third era he is willing to undo the purse strings that have restricted the last nine years of his reign and that our club can give him and us the glory that we all crave. Congratulations Arsene!


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  1. Tippy tappy passy push footy

    Mar 24, 2014, 12:12 #48127

    End this regime now! End this puny pretty In Pink big girls blouse approach to Arsenal!s game now! It doesn't work and never has done. A 4th place is up for grabs now, again and again and again. A get out of jail free card awaits Wanger in the FA Cup. This by no means is a certainty, as many times gave giants fallen. Wenger in particular seems inept when faced with these situations when sides 'battle it out'. I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for Wenger whatsoever. When January came and went...again and again he did nothing. Many said who do we get, what do we spend. He has continuously botched title attempt after title attempt because of his fastidious ways in the transfer market. Don't mention Özil either. Good player yes. Money well spent-in the context of things, NO! Don't sign the contract-PLEASE! We don't want your dictatorship any longer. The Injury jinx if it is indeed a jinx is down to methods, approach, and downright ineptitude of Wenger and his backroom. The stuffing at the Bridge was humiliating and added to other mailings all in all the club are now always under Wenger there for the taking. Everyone wants to draw us as Wenger's number is known and called up. How any Arsenal fans can still be deluded baffles me when confronted with the barefaced FACTS. Don't ***k**g sign. Resign, retire, GO!

  2. MARCUS

    Mar 22, 2014, 15:28 #47886

    STILL ANY WENGER APOLOGISTS LOOOL. WENGER MUST GO

  3. WENGER OUT

    Mar 22, 2014, 14:51 #47880

    No more please Wenger, that's enough. Quietly pack your things and f**k off.

  4. Gav Lee

    Mar 22, 2014, 12:57 #47870

    13-4 and counting. Our record against big teams away in the 1245s.

  5. BADARSE

    Mar 21, 2014, 21:30 #47856

    Green Hut, I was counting on you, but I understand. How can you devote any time to a Gardening Club when you spend all your spare time as a gigolo at the regular tea dances. Don't worry buddy, we gave it a stab. Will close down the Club and think of a new venture. I did see Ron in all his glory, just like Phil on Time Team, wearing a red and white feather in his hat, pint in his hand, and leaning on his shovel. Ah well, back to the Book Club. Good effort maguiresbridge. @Bard, that was a nice comment but what was a seriously good, or influential book you read? Any offers? You can't count Arsenal Handbooks.

  6. jeff wright

    Mar 21, 2014, 21:09 #47855

    Jack, you sad multi-non-personalty posting schizophrenic oaf stop it now, you are making me laugh! Hey , Jack I had to Google 'annotated hubris' to find out what it meant ,I thought it some sort of Greek kebab . I was amazed to learn instead that annotated often refers to a note by way of explanation or comment added to a text or diagram.Right back to the drawing board then! Hubris,sounds painful,but it turns out that Aristotle defined hubris as actions that shamed and humiliated the victim for the pleasure or gratification of the abuser. Hey,Jack or Jim,John Tom and Terry or whatever , this is all a bit heavy for me so lighten up a bit is my advice to you sunshine . Espousing by the way does not mean what you implied in your Don Quixotic tilting at Windmills type rant, and quotation marks on intelligent was wrong , parentheses or an exclamation mark should have been used instead, if you felt the need to highlight how you love my intelligence. Unfortunately I am unable to return the compliment because I find you to be rather boring , and obviously not all that bright . I now await your next rant Jack in one of your own new inimitable names that your cower behind in your deluded self appointed role as the leader of the AKB . I suggest Calling yourself Dick as in Head .

  7. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 21, 2014, 20:34 #47854

    BADARSE, I don't know what Ron will think of that but he won't have to worry about pansies, just weeds and grass and cats crap.

  8. Bard

    Mar 21, 2014, 19:34 #47852

    Andy; Wenger hasn't been a failure. He's just not been good enough over the last 9 years that's a very different kettle of fish. One of his current problems is that he can't win the big games because he doesnt have the tactical nous to change things as they crop up in the game.

  9. Green Hut

    Mar 21, 2014, 18:21 #47848

    BADARSE- Have to disappoint you again, the only assorted vegetables I will be concerned with this weekend will be 40,000 chavs wearing blue.

  10. BADARSE

    Mar 21, 2014, 18:07 #47846

    Hi maguiresbridge, how are you champ. If we get Ron to lay down and we push that will take care of the lawn rolling. Worried about him getting too close to the pansies though. We want a surface like the one at the Grove.

  11. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 21, 2014, 17:50 #47844

    BADARSE, not true i've just been sizing up the job in hand and it's going to take a lot more than a couple of us to sort my jungle out.

  12. Westlower

    Mar 21, 2014, 17:47 #47843

    @Soso, 23 players sold for £243m. What a top player producing club we are, no mistake. Maybe we had to sell our best players when we didn't have a pot to p*ss in? The media would never have forgiven Wenger for winning things when we were potless, excuse the puns! @Ron, Spend £50 in Waitrose and you get a free Daily Telegraph.

  13. BADARSE

    Mar 21, 2014, 17:35 #47840

    Ha ha. You are a good man Green Hut, my questioning was only a tease, and I liked the original post as well. So in that Green Hut are there Green Fingers? The Gardening Club needs inspiration as maguiresbridge didn't come through-has an aversion to the colour green- though the Book Club is quite vibrant. What about jjetplane? He is such a 'Dark Horse', (apologies George Harrison), he should be looking over his shoulder for the approaching equine-loving westlower, who might rope and brand. No hang on, that was Gil Favor and Rowdy Yates. See what typing your moniker does to me jjetplane?

  14. Green Hut

    Mar 21, 2014, 16:51 #47835

    BADARSE- No, I'm afraid St Arsene of Strasbourg is not me, even though he does namecheck 3 of my bestest friends. Rest assured I would never dare to type your name fully in lower case.

  15. Soso

    Mar 21, 2014, 16:17 #47830

    Since Arsenal last won a trophy, 23 ex players have been sold for £243m and have won 56 trophies at other clubs whereas no players at Arsenal under Arsene Wenger have won any. This hardly suggests that Wenger is pursuing successful policies. Claims that the stadium debt impeded him from winning trophies are not supported by the fact that the stadium makes money for the club and is self sufficient.

  16. BADARSE

    Mar 21, 2014, 15:38 #47827

    Good afternoon gentlemen and ladies. St, Arsene of Strasbourg, do you exist? I ask as I know there are no such things as saints, father Xmas, Easter bunny or bogey men. Are you Green Hut in disguise? You are certainly one of the usual suspects. WENGER OUT, I am on the hill-lots of room up here, you are welcome to join me, then you'd be on it too. As I might have said to Barney Curley, 'I'm a player, not a prayer!' Loving the book 24601.

  17. Westlower

    Mar 21, 2014, 15:13 #47826

    @Avik, Well said. I wonder how many half Goons who worship Maureen, are secretly or openly hoping he puts one over Wenger tomorrow? Methinks some of you are supporting the wrong club!

  18. Avik

    Mar 21, 2014, 14:33 #47825

    As a United fan, I've never understood the division of opinion on AW in the Gooner fan base itself. In the circumstances, he has achieved infinitely more than what would be due to any other manager willing to take the reigns. It'll be so tragically ironic if all Gooners unite in adulation only when AW retires/leaves.

  19. Ron

    Mar 21, 2014, 14:24 #47824

    Jeff - Youre having a pop at the FAC in the same way as the Club has done in the past surely. You cant have it both ways ie condemn the Club when they dont give it sufficient priority and then condemn them when they do. I reckon the FAC is brilliant. I for one, really hope we can win it in style, give those who can get tickets a day out for an occasion and wet the appetite for the players who can only get the winning feeeling in their lungs if we pull it off and theyve then got it as a 'springboard'to bigger honours hopefully .Thats been my take on it for years and will always be my view. Its a great trophy and ill always support it.

  20. St Arsene of Strasbourg

    Mar 21, 2014, 14:16 #47822

    Let us go down to the river at Woolwich, and pray quietly. Amos, Westlower and Badarse follow with heads bowed, carrying a large, dark track suit coat between them.

  21. Westlower

    Mar 21, 2014, 12:48 #47819

    @UTU, Surely you must appreciate AFC couldn't afford to 'splash the cash' once we moved from Highbury. It's nonsense to believe we just carry on as normal with a massive loan to repay. It was essential we didn't go into the red on transfer dealings during this vulnerable period. This is where AW earned his corn - I doubt anybody could have done it better. We are now in a financial position to once again bid for honours although we will always lag behind Man C & Chelsea as long as their sugar daddies keep them supplied with sweets.

  22. UTU

    Mar 21, 2014, 12:21 #47817

    Wenger from 96 to 2005 Top Class Record. Selling Vieira and never replacing him was the start of his downfall. 2006 was an exciting season I was at the Bernabeu to see The Arsenal beat R Madrid and in Paris for the final. Wenger's record over the last 9 years has not been good enough for a Top Club on the pitch but he his made the Owners/Board members big profits over this period. The Fans of other 'Big clubs' would not tolerate the continual failure on the pitch and the selling of their best players to rival clubs. Arsene Wenger has a job for life at The Arsenal so long as he can make the owners/board members profits.

  23. Amos

    Mar 21, 2014, 12:14 #47816

    There's no real evidence that it is our wages policy has failed to retain players jeff - but there is a great deal of evidence that the wages policy of clubs whose wages budgets haven't been constrained by their revenues has, on occasions caused us to lose players. Even so these have been relatively few in that we know Cesc didn't leave for money and RvP claimed he didn't. Maybe we lost Adebayor and Nasri but other than those, and possibly Cole, I can't see that we've lost many. On the other hand our investments in young players have quite often proved very fruitful. On balance I reckon this seems like a good utilisation of an economics degree.

  24. Jack

    Mar 21, 2014, 12:04 #47815

    jeff wright you really are a bellicose, odious little man but you are highly entertaining like a court jester so please continue with your ignorant nonsense that you revel in espousing!I love how "intelligent" you clearly think are, I almost admire your deluded self annotated hubris, silly little man

  25. Green Hut

    Mar 21, 2014, 11:28 #47814

    Westlower- OK, so 'AW has revealed that he was required to make a profit of £30m per season' (with it's clear implication) has changed to 'we had to fight clubs who lose £150m per year & we had to make £30m', so you concede that he didn't actually say what you said he said. I could just repeat my last post to you but if you didn't get it before I'm sure you won't get it now. By replying as you have you have simply reinforced my point.

  26. Mike

    Mar 21, 2014, 11:17 #47811

    @Jeff - it is not an excuse its a fact -Wenger could have moved to other European teams with far more resources to him than he had at this club. He has seen the job through and he has done it responsibly - now whether he should carry on is another debate altogether

  27. jeff wright

    Mar 21, 2014, 10:52 #47809

    Because although his policy attracts young players with potential because he pays them more than others would , his wage policy fails to keep the developed players that make the grade, when other clubs tempt them with bigger wages later than what he can them Amos .Also there is the fact that a better chance of silverware can be won at other big clubs . The stats on this regarding players who have left and won trophies against those who have stayed prove it. Wenger's won nothing since 2005 and if he does then it will only be the same trophy and one that we were told by Hill wood and others is not worth bothering with. I suspect though that this view is about to change. Winning the FAC again though hardly suggests that Wenger is about to begin a new successful era. Redknapp won it with Portsmouth and Martinez with Wigan just to get things into perspective. Anyway must go away now until Monday so good luck to the lads tomorrow - and let's hope that Arsene can at last conjure up something to bring his appalling record against the mouthy Portugeezer to an end.

  28. Amos

    Mar 21, 2014, 10:32 #47807

    How do you know his wage policy doesn't work jeff? Whose has been more successful in the PL other than those whose resources allow them to spend more on wages and transfers?

  29. WENGER OUT

    Mar 21, 2014, 10:28 #47806

    Whatever BADARSE is on I want some please! Or is it still a residual high from the 60's/70's? I agree with most of what Hilarious said in his article-post, however I do think we need to steer away from being vindictive towards AW as he is clearly not an idiot or a bad person. Being vindictive toward the man only serves to diminish a lot of the good points we 'WOBs' make. Is he the right man to take Arsenal forwards? No (and probably hasn't been for a few years). Is he a bad person or a moron? Equally No. Whether or not we have had these financial constraints - be it -£15m or -£30m p.a. - The fact is that every summer we've been told there's money to spend and the money we have used has been woefully misspent - So there's a mixture of dishonesty and incompetence there that I could quite frankly do without.

  30. jeff wright

    Mar 21, 2014, 10:25 #47805

    Yes Amos, he was,which makes his crazy idealistic non-working socialist type wage policy even more strange, and that was the point that I was making. Perhaps he should seek some advice from Arthur Scargill on how to sort it out.

  31. Amos

    Mar 21, 2014, 9:58 #47804

    It was good of you to warn Mike that what was to follow in your post is complete nonsense jeff though I think you're being a little harsh on yourself as you were correct in pointing out Wenger was a student of economics at Strasbourg! :)

  32. jeff wright

    Mar 21, 2014, 9:35 #47802

    Mike,complete nonsense this, but par for AKB excuses. Wenger was a flop in Europe before the stadium move and when he had great sides with which to compete there . Tactically he is clueless and gets exposed time and again in crunch games against top opposition. This has nothing to do with finances and he's not proven himself to be the sharpest knife in the draw either when it comes to that aspect of affairs. Even though he is a student of economics ( Strasbourg).

  33. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 21, 2014, 8:52 #47801

    I'm not OGL's biggest fan by a long margin (thought he should have walked after the stadium move) BUT compare the intelligent, urbane man at the helm of AFC with the oafish chav the Totts have. Here's a selection of his quotes from the last two games:v us: "We outplayed them and they're title contenders". v Benfica "They were running scared in that second half. Oh and one more, after the 3rd round tie: "We showed we belong on the same pitch as Arsenal" Methinks someone is just enjoying themselves before their P45 arrives in the post.

  34. mike

    Mar 21, 2014, 8:34 #47799

    Arsenal had to be K24 million in the black each year before they kicked a ball - has the club been most responsibly - most definately - like any business these days, it is about sustainability. Arsenal can at least say it will definately be around in 10 years time and still be competitive. What Wenger has essentially done is to put his own reputation at stake to ensure the future prosperous survival of the club.

  35. Westlower

    Mar 21, 2014, 8:23 #47798

    @HILARIOUS, Is Benitez still in your list of top 10 coaches after being knocked out of the Europa League last night? This follows on from being eliminated in the CL group stage, finishing behind Arsenal. Ace striker Higuain played in both competitions and maybe, just maybe, he isn't/wasn't the answer to AFC's prayers?

  36. Westlower

    Mar 21, 2014, 8:11 #47797

    @Green Hut, I got my info from the Arsenal website yesterday, suggest you take a read. Interview with Wenger; "we had to fight clubs who lose £150m per year & we had to make £30m."

  37. BADARSE

    Mar 21, 2014, 8:01 #47796

    Morning Amos. I mentioned yesterday, in a passing post-if you are going to have an Arsenal post then a passing post it should be-that some of my tenets have been formed by lyrics in pop music. Your intelligent words sparked a memory of a Billy Joel song, 'Shades of Grey', (though he would spell it 'gray'). Basically he suggests that as he aged, grew and developed he began to see the other person's viewpoint. Things ceased being black and white and invariably were just shades of grey. The idea of moving to gain a different aspect is vital. Travel and engagement opens the door, more than any time now than in my youth. My first flight was to Brussels in April 1970 when I was part of the vanguard for our European Fairs Cup Final first leg. Sadly the 'Sun reader' mentality prevails, and many visit the Costas for pollo and chips and a pint of English lager. They believe they have immersed themselves in Spanish culture. That brings me in a loop, I have a Spanish Civil War-linked tale for radfordkennedy to tell later.

  38. Amos

    Mar 21, 2014, 7:36 #47795

    Wise words indeed Badarse. Perspective is all about the position from which you view something but if you only stand in one place it's only possible to have one perspective. It's necessary to move to have a greater perspective. Similarly conclusions are easiest to make with the least information and/or knowledge. The more information or knowledge you have the more difficult the conclusion.

  39. BADARSE

    Mar 21, 2014, 7:35 #47794

    @Andrew, I am taller and a little stronger than my wife-that puts that into perspective!

  40. BADARSE

    Mar 21, 2014, 7:20 #47793

    Good morning gentlemen and ladies. If people are able to take a step back and look at a situation things appear differently. Imagine a camera pulling away from the subject and panning from side to side-you see more. Of course the skill of doing that with your own mental camera takes time to learn. Then you have to try understanding what you are witnessing. This is where parents, teachers and society play their part. There is a failure of such a magnitude on these fronts, which are beyond any imagined levels that we could realistically have anticipated. Due to directional circumstances of trade and world developments, plus advanced technology, we have rocketed into a no-man's land of ignorance. Nothing will change for the better. Arsenal could win anything on offer and still be damned by a real or imagined slight. I am not without hope though. I am aware by the time an individual comes to a website ready to post venom they are lost. Equally those with a positive outlook based on relevant facts will remain steadfast. This is usually because it has become a state of mind for the people concerned. There is a polarisation effect with any topic and the protagonists dig in, as it is their only way. Persuasive debate will not alter perceptions. Beyond a joyful exchange with like-minded souls, joking and teasing in a good natured way with those with opposing but civil views-often it is here that the learning takes place, (certainly for those like me who crave knowledge)-the rest can be dismissed. (The redeeming part is if a person stumbles onto the site, reads my words and takes it as a sensible alternative to the clamour around). The dynamics are constant, the behaviour is one of human nature and is commonplace. All of life is convoluted and entangled. It is akin to being caught in a spider's web of confusion. It's too difficult to negotiate the escape route, so people stay where they are, entrenched in their ways and views, feeling secure in a familiar and trusted environment or mind set. Sermonising? If you like. I see it as just observational license. I shall end with a closing phrase I used occasionally to signify my amusement at the status quo that existed; it illustrates the 'time standing still' concept. 'OK, custard pies at the ready, begin!'

  41. Black Hei

    Mar 21, 2014, 6:15 #47791

    Anyone with a hint of positivity gets fire branded with a "AKB" logo fresh from the furnaces. Shame, but I think this will never go away even if Wenger win a couple more trophies before retiring. The language used to describe the despise some have for Wenger is too overpowering. I have been disappointed many times, but I never hated/despised Wenger. At times I wonder if he still have what it takes, though I never doubted his integrity.

  42. Phil

    Mar 21, 2014, 0:28 #47790

    Dear Ron, no need to be so personal and bitter about the facts I presented. Ok I was a tiny bit harsh about the donkey football from the 70's to the 90's! Jamie, I think you were talking about GG's team! Your right about being unique, No European Cups! And yes Mr Moyes is an embarrassment! Thanks for agreeing with some of my thoughts Terry!

  43. Amos

    Mar 21, 2014, 0:13 #47789

    Anger? I'm not sure how you've reached that conclusion Green Hut! I'm having a hoot! What's to be angry about? These are the good times!

  44. DW Thomas

    Mar 21, 2014, 0:06 #47788

    “Look, if I ask you tomorrow to race with Usain Bolt and win the race, you’ll realise quickly it is difficult. “I accepted to stay here a long time knowing that we had little chance to win the Premier League, but I think now we are in a position again where we can fight with other clubs to sign big players. I think we can be proud of the consistency of our achievement at the club.” This is why they are snake oil salesman, the board, Gadzidis, Wenger, the whole lot! Little chance to win the Premier League? He had every chance, each season, but wasted money on the likes of Denilson, Bendtner, Almunia, et al. He makes it sound like it was our privilege for him to be here?! What arrogance. What have won lately Arsene? Or for 8 years? 2008 you could have won for sure, but bottled it. But we have been soooooo blessed with your presence King Arsene!

  45. Green Hut

    Mar 20, 2014, 23:01 #47787

    Amos- My goodness I must have really got under your skin yesterday, I can feel the anger in every word!

  46. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Mar 20, 2014, 22:46 #47786

    In the words of the late unlamented Baroness of Kesteven, NO No No. It was in May 2005 that we watched Arsene Wenger order his team out onto the pitch to do a disciplined job on Manchester United. That is nearly 9 years of our lives ago, and as he sold the players who could bring trophies he acquired only a few replacements worth their place. Those players showed him loyalty and were broken as they struggled in vein to make up for the lacunae in the manager's toolkit. He has not been worth employing as a manager for many many seasons and 1000 games is at least 400 too long. His record of success stands as fact in Arsenal's history. So does his record of failure. We judge him by the latter now. For those who value his monetary success for the club, his position is assured and unassailable. For those who believe that we could have won things if he had done the whole of his job properly, his position is untenable. Corporate governance is about cash. Football is about winning.

  47. Amos

    Mar 20, 2014, 22:45 #47785

    The club doesn't have a mortgage. It has a combination principally of fixed and floating rate insurance backed bonds which interest and guarantees requires and has required payment of some £16m to £20m a year. While it's true that increased revenues from different revenue streams cover this satisfactorily it must also be true that if that money were not spent to meet this demand it would be available to spend in other directions. Any enterprise with finite resources and an obligation to meet its liabilities from its own resources must by definition be constrained to some extent by those liabilities.

  48. Green Hut

    Mar 20, 2014, 22:21 #47784

    Westlower- 'AW has revealed that he was required to make a profit of £30m per season to underpin paying back the huge loan associated with building the Emirates'. When did he say that? Because what I remember him being reported as saying during a press conference 2 years ago whilst talking transfers was the general point that £15-20m profit had to be made at Arsenal each season. Of course excited AKBs everywhere seized on this as referring specifically to Wenger's transfer budget, but some journalists weren't quite so gullible and pressed him for clarification at the next press conference a few days later, which he gave by stating that he was referring to the mortgage that the club in general has to find the money for. He was then immediately asked a direct question as to whether his hands are tied re transfer spending, to which he answered "No". So I'm afraid this is just another suburban myth perpetuated by Wenger's disciples in an attempt to excuse the last 8 years of failure. Nothing personal mate.

  49. Ron

    Mar 20, 2014, 20:49 #47783

    Hilarious - Whilst there is often threads of persuasive argument in a diatribe like you've posted, (some strands of it ive often advocated myself)the tone of it and the disparaging description in parts hides its faultlines. You cant compare AW to Mourinho and arrive at your conclusion.Nobody can due to their vastly different career paths. No comparison is possible.Im not going to strip every point down as it is in parts a supportable critique as ive said. It rides too roughshod though over a man who has done his job at our Club for so long, with integrity, with success.OK, not the type that we as fans use a benchmark, but hes integral to the status of the Club as it stands. Change is needed, but if theres an explanation somewhere to answer and end the debate over 'the AW conundrum', im sorry but i'm not of the view your method or conclusions gives a fully explicable one. Lifes never that simple and AW isn't some sort of village idiot.If he was, what would it say about our Club? Some sort of palatable view lies between and betwixt the extremes of the views we see on here matey.

  50. Westlower

    Mar 20, 2014, 19:56 #47782

    @Hilarious, 'Mourinho 100 times better manager than AW will ever be.' In Wengers reign Chelsea have outspend (transfers in/out) AFC by a factor of 12, £677.5m to AFC's £57.8m. I can concede that Chelsea managers in that period had the potential to be 12 times better but 100 times better reeks of school playground logic! AW has revealed that he was required to make a profit of £30m per season to underpin paying back the huge loan associated with building the Emirates. The chances of winning the PL in this period under such financial constraint were virtually nil. We can only wonder how Maureen would have coped under the same circumstance? My guess is he would have walked with his massive ego badly bruised. Chelsea's major weakness is lack of a top goal scoring striker, as Higuin's manager at RM, why didn't he sign him for himself?

  51. Getting Over Myself

    Mar 20, 2014, 19:32 #47781

    You tell me how much you earn first.

  52. 600NER PETE

    Mar 20, 2014, 19:05 #47780

    Hilarious, I agree with you 100%.

  53. Matthew Bazell

    Mar 20, 2014, 18:28 #47779

    Personally I see a grey area. Between 1996 and 2006 I think his record was excellent. From 2007 to now it's been mediocre with an improvement in the last 12 months. His record in getting us champions league football is great. His record in the champions league is appalling and simply not good enough. 2006 was the only year we made an impact. He's not a clown, nor a genius. Both sides of the Wenger debate go too far. I think he's a mixture of good and bad. I just feel that for some he's treated like a God and I think that a pedestal too high for someone who has never won a European trophy.

  54. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 20, 2014, 18:10 #47778

    Hilarious, you should have saved that for an article mate.

  55. jeff wright

    Mar 20, 2014, 17:41 #47777

    Wenger did well to utilise the experienced GG defence Amos and also later benefited from Sol having been coached by him when he was at spuds . I have always believed that Bergkamp though was the main player during Wenger's golden years, he was the same as Ferguson's Gigg's in that he helped glue everything together. It was noticeable how United played better with Gigg's in the side,even at 40! They still rode their luck though and there are some top top teams left in the pot. I fancy Real Madrid to win the cup ,no doubt the extra-money from their tie will help the Glazers for awhile ,they need all of it that they can get now.

  56. Amos

    Mar 20, 2014, 17:30 #47776

    Good point jeff! No other manager would have been able to squeeze as much out of GG's rather ancient shire horses, destined for the glue factory until he rescued them. They did a job though - if not up to the standard of the invincible thoroughbreds that Arsene put together himself to show how it really should be done.

  57. jjetplane

    Mar 20, 2014, 17:20 #47775

    HILARIOUS makes tough reading and I agree with most of your points. The more we see a trophyless decade in front of our faces the more we see a Company run on an ideology of money is all for the faces rarely seen. Just would like to say for me Bobby Pires was the architect of Arsene's greatest hits. Funny like a load of old fuddy rock/punk bands the later years are always the ones lacking anything new. See Martinez has already made a cyber indent. Watch those spaces. Like many have said on here, a good send off (perhaps upstairs keeping 'an eye on the vegetables') and lets get down to joining 'the new kids on the block'. Viva Fuseball!

  58. jeff wright

    Mar 20, 2014, 17:07 #47774

    Caggie,if Abramovich had bought spuds if this or that ... so what has Wenger's record at Highbury largely based on GG's defence and Bergkamp already at the club got to do with 9 years of mismanagement by him ?

  59. Caggie

    Mar 20, 2014, 17:00 #47773

    Great article, I totally agree. Had AW gone to the likes of Newcastle or Everton they would have achieved what we did and who knows where we'd be now. People have such short memories! To do what he did under the circumstances he did it - no way Mourinho could have achieved that

  60. RDT - 4

    Mar 20, 2014, 16:51 #47772

    Hilarious, agree with every word and you didn't even mention the 8-2 humiliation in that stupid blue kit. It's really starting to irritate me the way everyone's banging on about this 1000 game thing - it's more like proof he's been at the club far too long!

  61. Big Andy

    Mar 20, 2014, 16:34 #47771

    Hello, Mr Le Beau. Tell me: in which department of Arsenal Football Club do you work? You article looks like it came directly from the press office. Sadly, it was more of the same Arsene backside kissing which has become frankly boring now. The truth about Wenger is simple: he was brilliant for the first eight years of his reign but then began to lose the plot. All managers have their shelf lives, and that includes Wenger. The last five years, in particular, have been embarrassing. A combination of rubbish signings and poor tactics have meant that we have had no chance of challenging for the title or Champions' League. If you want a beautiful example of just how much he has lost the plot then the wasting of 42 million quid on Ozil, when we desperately needed a top-quality striker says it all. The only way we'll ever challenge for the two major honers in football is by getting rid of Wenger and bringing in a top-quality boss. That shouldn't be too hard when we can offer him up to eight million quid a year. But Wenger is finished now and should be allowed to walk away at the end of the season. Three more years of mediocrity is surely too much to take.

  62. Bard

    Mar 20, 2014, 15:51 #47770

    Julesd; I disagree about the salary. I've put a heap of money into the club over the years and I want to know where it goes. Its called accountability I think. And does it matter whether he 's a nice man or not. Fergie seems a nasty piece of work but what a manager. I know what type of character I'd prefer a nasty winner trumps nice also ran any day of the week.

  63. MARCUS

    Mar 20, 2014, 15:51 #47769

    Hilarious, BARVO,BRAVO. I agree with everything you said 100%. Everything you said was bang on the money.

  64. Mr Martinez

    Mar 20, 2014, 15:11 #47768

    I know who I need, I know the trophies we need, and I know where the money is. Good afternoon Arsenal.

  65. Amos

    Mar 20, 2014, 15:07 #47767

    The last 9 years will never be justified to those discontented with the last 9 years - nor do they have to be justified really. Except in the minds of those whom Wenger is contracted to. The fact that the club can still fill the stadium, sell enough tickets and win sponsorship already justifies what has gone before. Now the club only needs for those likely to buy tickets or sign sponsorship for future games to feel justified doing so - and seemingly they do. Trying to justify what has gone before to those who feel it cannot be justified is a waste of time and energy.

  66. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 20, 2014, 14:46 #47766

    Will he really? especially not if we blow what is the best chance we have for silverware in probably all his eighteen years, 1,000th plus games in the job let alone the last potless nine, and even then what will it have proved. Here we go again so next year is the year is it, the year when it's all going to come good and the purse strings will be loosened and all this cash will be splashed to make us great again and better than all the rest, i thought it was going to be last year or the one before that, a bit of romanticism indeed Peter, although a better word would be spin and we're certainly sick of hearing that. Arsene will always be respected and remembered for what he has done, and won for our club especially in his first nine seasons in the hot seat and as the caption shows he has a bust to prove it, not that any is needed, would/will he be as quick to be awarded, or even accept one of those now? after the last nine years, would there be as much agreement if he were to be offered another one or even a statue? I think more than an FA Cup or even a double is required before the last nine years and all that went with it can be justified.

  67. julesd

    Mar 20, 2014, 14:26 #47765

    Sadly I can remember during the 'invincible season' when someone who sat near us in the west lower stand moaned continually about Arsenal THAT season, can you believe it! He was told then that he should enjoy as going unbeaten for the whole season may never happen again in our lifetime. Get over yourselves and get behind your team and manager, who incidentally is a very nice man, it doesn't matter what he earns its none of your business, you don't broadcast your salary and the person who called him a moron needs to grow up, you know who you are.

  68. Ron

    Mar 20, 2014, 14:11 #47764

    Jeff - I do agree that very good players down the last 7 years have been missed or ignored for relatively small amounts of money that would have secured them. We only have the media to guide us on such presumptions though dont we . Im thinking Alonso and Shwartzer to name but 2 here, both far better than what we had or what we bought.I also agree that AW once accepting his newly defined role post ground shift became too steadfastly wedded to it and it (the youth emphasis) became some thing of a crusade for him in the face of the Chelsea and later the MC phenomenas. Its maybe the case now as the Club emerges from the post ground move austerity, that the extent of his grip on player choice/transfers is in issue between he and the Club and preventing his new contract being a formality? We dont really know.ive not read of friction with him and SK so im guided by you on that one. JAMIE - We werent dubbed as a borig side in the 70s, 80s and 90s as that guy 'Phil' suggests. Hard and uncompromising for the 1971 double. Yes. It was the way off football then so to take on Leeds. Man U never went that way and where did they go? Division 2 is the answer to that one. We had some poor sides in the 70s to 90s period for sure. Everybody did hence Liveerpool had free rein to clean up as easily as they did.Arsenel were dubbed badly in 2-3 years of GG s latter reign. Take no notice of the likes of daft Phil. Hes using the same idle, unsubstantiated garbage that other buffoons trot out to make their usually incorrect 'points'. Rix, Brady,Rocastle stapleton, MacDonald, Nicholas, Graham, O Leary, Sanasom,Jennings, Sunderland George, Limpar et al and many many more,... donkeys? Dont waste your time dignifying muppets like 'Phil', the plastic manc from Guildford. I lived in Manchester for 2 years nigh on years ago. I bet im more 'manc' than that idiot and venture ive been to OT far more than him down the years.

  69. chris dee

    Mar 20, 2014, 13:58 #47763

    Yep hear we go!Nastiness,vitriol,and bile against Arsene by our own fans.Apparently he's been so **** these last few years that the only clubs who have admitted they have enquired about appointing him as their manager were crappy Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. Apparently for some, Brendan Rogers is now 'the man' ,this must be true because he's on Talk Sport on a weekly basis. But there's no smoke without fire, a couple of trophies,even Carling or F A these past nine years would have dampened down all this angst and would have helped the progress of the club.

  70. Peter Wain

    Mar 20, 2014, 13:41 #47762

    The daily arsenal is just one sad person idea to boost his programmes failing viewing figures. Frankly like the programme it is well worth missing being neither funny or relevant. Just a bigot's eye view of the world. As far as Wenger goes it is unquestionably a great achievement top be manager for a 1,000 matches. I personally would like to see he step down at the end of the season as for the last few years the Club have messed up in the transfer big time and I cannot see this changing without a change in manager ceo and owner.

  71. jeff wright

    Mar 20, 2014, 13:37 #47761

    Hi Ron, I think that Wenger should have done a lot better than he has done with the resources available to him, but handicapped himself from doing so with his own obsessive policies . He stuck with duffs such as Almunia for years and this was a self enforced error, and not a bad line call ! Proving him self right against his numerous critics appears to often play a large part in Wenger's psyche ,rather than any other factors do . Regarding him going to Real Madrid I stick with my view that the pessures involved did not appeal to him when he had the comfort zone of AFC and the unswerving devotion of the AKB plus the happy to just make some money board backing him up. It depends on what terms are involved as in the amount of money made available in the summer to Wenger or whoever as to whether or not it is substantial . If wages of a new top signing are factored in from say 100m available over the course of a contract then is not a lot if the signing is a Ozil or Suarez type . Wenger's crazy wage structure is another reason why he has failed to compete for trophies with clubs like United,who have a similar wage bill just 20m more ,while struggling to finish ahead of sides such as spuds and Everton with some 50m less spent on players wages. We should have a top striker and GK with our wage bill and the fact that we don't have is down to Wenger's misuse of his resources ,rather than a lack of having any.Personally I can only see failure to qualify for the CL forcing Wenger out the FAC is often won by underdogs ,Wigan beat City last season in the final ,so excuses will be found to brush over any such result for Wenger should it happen. I expect him to win the cup though and still with us next season.C'est la vie!

  72. BADARSE

    Mar 20, 2014, 13:35 #47760

    Can't get near the computer, so busy, but mainly my beautiful wife doing the hard work; as I don't have other 'gizmos' I just wait for a narrow window of time like this, then being the popular/unpopular chap I am there are threads aplenty. Firstly westlower and julesd, I was making a ham-fisted attempt at being ironic with the lyrics. My philosophy has been shaped by much weighty stuff, but also the ephemeral stuff like pop song lyrics. I am literally that fool on the hill, have always been, and will die with him, up on that quite lonely, but beautiful hill. I loved your comments though-a few words can speak volumes. radfordkennedy thanks for the book tip of Antony Beevor, as westlower can testify, I read constantly and am reading his suggestion and shall no doubt read your one. Have a great Spanish Civil War-linked story, will tell you later. Oh and westlower, Barney's constant 'Me Fein' Gaelic for 'myself' is something he abhors. Put me in mind of dear old George Harrison's, 'I, Me, Mine.' Knew the BADARSE Book Club would take off, keep them coming people. jjetplane, the only non-fiction book Mr. Blair wrote. He said on his return to England that all the English press were corrupting the reality of the war, only one told the truth, The Guardian-not much changed there then! No time left, wanted to just say a 'well done' to Amos. So lucid and structured in your pragmatism and overall clear-sighted view of where we are, what we are and who we are. Hope you are not the forerunner of an AFC AI machine. Thanks for your comments, people can learn a lot from them-they won't. Now off to check if maguiresbridge cut the grass before sneaking to the pub. Bard, Hello-goodbye.

  73. JAMIE

    Mar 20, 2014, 13:34 #47759

    Phil, When Arsenal were tagged names in the 70's to the 90's it was judging Arsenal against themselves. Arsenal cannot be judged against other English teams because we are far above them, including your beloved Man Utd. United have won trophy after trophy from 93 playing a style that if Arsenal had adopted we would have been hammered for it. Lumping in endless crosses yawn yawn, basically playing hoof ball with average players like Beckham and co. Your teams under Fergy won lots but played garbage football and are continuing the traditions under Moyes. Man Utd like the spuds don't really have any great role in the larger football spectrum other than to offer them compliments when they manage to achieve anything for their large global plastic following.

  74. Hilarious

    Mar 20, 2014, 12:53 #47758

    LOL. I expect that as this anniversary approaches, we will have plenty more of these apologetic articles being written. So let me see - Wenger now has money at his disposal we all agree. He totally balssed up the Higuain and Suarez transfers, and ended up with a crocked postman from Auxerre as second striker. This is surely Wenger's fault 100% right? NO apparently! Allegedly, the author tells us this is 'a legacy of having to scrimp and save'. Yes poor Arsene. He was so hard-up in all those years of austerity, that he managed to hand lucrative contract extensions to Diaby (£60k a week), Bendtner (£52k a week), Ramsey (£60k a week), Denilson (£55k a week), Song (£60k a week), and Almunia got £60k a week too. Oh and Fabianski got a new £40k a week deal. Oh, and Arsene managed to award himself a salary icnrease to £7.5 mil a year. Yup, sounds to me as if Arsenal is a really hard-up club! Do these sound to you like the actions of a manager short on cash? Jose Mourinho is 100%, absolutely correct to call Arsene Wenger a SPECIALIST IN FAILURE. Mourinho is 100 times the manager Wenger will ever be, so is in a position to make that critique. Yes it's a bit harsh - but it is true crucially. Arsene Wenger has been given a decade - 10 years - to build a title-winning side. In that time, he has won less trophies than Wigan, Portsmouth, Birmingham (who he lost a final to and were then relegated), Swansea and Liverpool. ALL clubs with significantly less resources than Wenger. There is NO excuse for this aberration. Meanwhile, Wenger ahs continued to moan and whine that he 'cannot compete' with the oil money of Citeh/Chelski. For such a man of 'integrity, he sure seemed to have no problem selling them Ashley Cole (best left back in Europe), Clichy, Adebayor, Toure, and Nasri. All of whom have gone on to play a part and win significant trophies for their new teams. Oh and he even obliged by selling Fergie RVP! Who also went on to single-handedly win the league for them. How nice and obliging of Arsene! Now. Please contrast this with Liverpool - a club with far less money and resources than Arsenal. I am sick of hearing excuses for Wenger's failure. Suarez weas desperate to leave Pool and went on strike. He wanted to join Arsenal - did Rodgers cave in? Even though Arsenal were offering huge money? No. They stayed strong and put football ahead of profits. And the result? Suarez is the best player in the league, and Pool could very well win the title. Brendan Rodgers took over a team that was 8th, and in just 2 years, has them genuinely competing for a league title. Arsene has been given 10 years, and has won and achieved, nothing. CL qualification you say? Where's the glory in that? Meandering through the group stages, with a manager too stupid to realise you need to WIN YOUR GROUP...get humiliated by good first team you face. Rinse, repeat. It's all a big joke that stopped being funny. Then there is his complete inability to manage tactically - who else can forget his infamour quote before the Spuds game last year 'I do not plan for Bale or anybody' - before watching Bale destroy his comical high line as Spuds beat us. You have Chelski fans singing 'Arsene Wenger, we want you to stay'! Jeeeez. 10 years of ridiculous tactical incompetence. His apologists show off about '16 years CL qualification' - yet his record in Europe is an absolute farce. 1 final in 17 years, and beyond the quarters just twice overall. Ridiculous! How many back to back titles has he managed? Oh yes. None. Wenger's wage bill at Arsenal is higher than Bayern, much higher than Atletico's, much higher than Liverpool's, much higher than Juventus. Yet are Arsenal better than any of thsoe teams? Nowhere near their level you'll find. As a manager, Wenger is the 3rd highest paid manager in European football. Yet, I wouldn't even have him down as one of the top 10 coaches. Pep, Ancelotti, Jose, Klopp, Conte, Pellegrini, Benitez, Simeone, Hiddink, Heynckes...off the top of my head there's a large list of superior managers who - Pep and Jose aside - ALL earn less than Wenger does. Yet they've all achieved more, and won more than he has! The usual excuses about 'oligarchs' sounds hollow when you consider who Arsenal's largest majority shareholder is after Kroenke - the richest man in Russia FFS. Wenger's first 8 years were superb but the past 8-9 years have been nothing short of a complete and utter failure. Full stop. People can invent all the b.s they like about 'trophies not being everything' but in the end; the great managers are remembered for what they WIN. Years from nwo, 4th place and CL qualification will be seen as the nonsense it should be. Arsene Wenger, for a man on his wages and with all the time, money and privilege he has been afforded at Arsenal; is a complete and utter failure. These past 10 years are testament to that and if Rodgers manages to win the league with a team that finished 8th 2 years ago; it will completely expose what an excuse-maker Arsene is with his 'cannot compete' nonsense. So happy 1000th game Arsene. And who knows, maybe we could have a testimonial to celebrate your 10th consecutive trophyless years sometime soon eh? Ooooh I forgot. We might beat Wigan and Hull in the FA Cup! (you know, the same competition we were told was worthless so many times before when we got dumped out)

  75. Amos

    Mar 20, 2014, 12:51 #47757

    Well at least we seem to agree that success and failure are relative Wenger Out. I guess that in the PL in one sense every one has failed to match the achievement of the 'unbeaten' side and could consider themselves failures. I agree with you that we weren't forced to sell our best players for financial reasons. They wanted to leave and changes in player contract laws introduced in 2005 meant that we couldn't prevent them going. Had the same contract laws existed earlier then players like Vieira, who seemed to spend almost every summer fluttering his eyelashes at Madrid, and at one time even ManU, might not have stayed around as long as they did. The fact that he was winning trophies at the time may not have prevented him going any more than ManU could prevent Ronaldo leaving when he wanted out. It is good that you make the point that it wasn't primarily a finance driven policy though. That's often misunderstood by many. The factors which have determined our relative success or failure in the barren years were largely external, at least the major factors were. Whoever was at the helm at the time would have faced those same inhibiting external factors and would have been equally powerless to overcome them.

  76. Ron

    Mar 20, 2014, 12:50 #47755

    Hi Jeff. I dont think coaches go to Real M with a view to 'surviving' anyway. They know the score, its in or out, **** or bust, but either way with a big pay off as they leave, so why should they care? Agree that its 'philosophy' that maybe stopped AW going there, but i dont think you can remove the liklihood that AW has genuine loyalty to AFC too.I dont think massive wealth will be handed over in the Summer either for transfers. They might buy a player or two, but not mega bucks buys.I think AW will call it a day if the FAC isnt netted as you say. Whatever our views are on past spending, the fact of the ground move by definition meant that Wengers working role cdt be like other coaches at other big clubs.To a great degree, it must surely be the case that he agreed to work under conditions where the Club wdt progress on the field as much as he or we wd have liked. In return he was given control in an expanded way vis most coaches and a large loyalty salary to ensure his longevity in my view. Whether we like it or not its a set up thats offered stabilty to the Club and there remains the view that AWs period sice 2005 is his most 'successful' period.Again, its the fans view vis the Clubs that precedes all discussion. No right or wrong answers exist really.

  77. Bard

    Mar 20, 2014, 12:44 #47754

    Ozzie: you're right but the difference is that back then I wasn't paying a Kings ransom to watch Arsenal. It's a Faustian deal the more I pay the more want for my money. It's the old adage that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

  78. WENGER OUT

    Mar 20, 2014, 12:31 #47752

    Amos - There are different ways of interpreting everything - You see success relevant to the 16 teams who usually finish below us, I see failure compared to the invincible team who played the best football this country has ever seen (for which Wenger deserves plenty of credit both ways). There seems to be a perception here that we were forced to sell our best players for financial reasons - utter pish! We sold them because the majority of them wanted out, the majority saw that the writing was on the wall and they wanted to actually win things. We were forced to sell players due to our own lack of ambition, Wenger's lack of ambition. Ambitious certainly in the pursuit of the perfect self-sustaining model, but not in any way that rewards the fans, merely treats them like customers and gives them increasingly less for their money. Times changed when Chelsea were taken over, rather than try to move with the times we consistently down-skilled our workforce and reinforced a flat pay structure which rewarded rubbish way beyond their wildest dreams and insulted our best players. The financial model we have run has been far from perfect as some on this particular thread would like to make out - Some good points some bad points, but all the good points have amounted to what, 9 years of sweet FA? "We are now in a position to compete"? Guess what, we've been in a position to compete a number of times, all we needed was a couple of signings to complete the squad, bridge the gaps that appear due to injuries and we probably would have been champions on at least 2 occasions. Who did we sign leading up to Fabregas and Nasri deciding to pack it in? Carl Jenkinson, Oxlade-Chamberlain & Gervinho (signed as a replacement for Nasri) - EVERYONE knew we needed experienced defenders - Unforgiveable! Airbrush history all you want, the truth is we've been hamstrung by 1 man and 1 man only. Yes Wenger has dealt with adversity better than almost anyone could have done, but it's adversity he's created himself.

  79. jeff wright

    Mar 20, 2014, 12:25 #47751

    A well written article but one with a fair bit of sentimentalism involved in its premise. However, as many have pointed out before, Wenger doesn't operate under the same circumstances/rules that other top managers do. How long would he have survived at clubs such as Real Madrid ? Wenger twice secretly met with senor Perez in Paris , while obviously under contract to AFC , to hear what he had to offer, we know this is true because Wenger has said so. Wenger himself in a chucking his toys out of the pram type of petulant rant in a media interview used those approaches by Perez to claim that he could have left AFC, if he had chosen to do so, when he was under pressure from supporters to change his policies and to spend more money on buying experienced players, rather than continuing with his failed disastrous youth policy. In reality my view is that Wenger turned down the opportunity to manage Real Madrid because he would not have been given the sort of powers that he enjoyed with us, and knew that even one season without winning a trophy would see him dismissed as a failure. That's how the game is played everywhere, other than at AFC , albeit only Wenger himself has had this bullet proof vest given to him by our boards and previous managers operated under normal rules of engagement. The Mafioso styled named Diamond Danny and Silent Stan have employed Wenger primarily because his policies have made them money , and not to win trophies . Wenger's put together squads on the cheap and brought home the Champions League cash every season . Had he not done so then this, allayed with his lack of trophy success , would have seen him gone long ago . So please spare us the sentimentality, even at AFC it comes at a cost! There are rumours going about, that have so far have not been denied , that there is a problem between Stan and Arsene over his control regarding the buying and selling of players, and this is why he has not yet signed a new contract. We have seen issues with this before actually with Wenger once saying that big clubs don't sell their best players during the Fabregas saga . It also looks likely on known evidence that Ozil was a late panic buy by Stan , with Wenger himself and some players, such as Ramsey and Wilshere , saying only the day before that we didn't need any new signings. A strange signing anyway because Ozil was certainly not a player that we required . It may well be that circumstances at AFC are changing, or have already changed , in respect of Wenger's autonomous powers . As regards a third Wenger era I would suggest that his age is against that happening and the powers that be at AFC should be looking now at finding a replacement for him at the end of this season irrespective of whether or not he wins the FAC . Especially so , in the admittedly the unlikely event , that a vast amount of money is going to be made available to the manager for him to rebuild the squad with during the summer . On all known evidence Wenger is not the man to entrust with doing this.

  80. MARCUS

    Mar 20, 2014, 12:15 #47750

    Look if wenger does not win the FA CUP. He's time at arsenal is up 100%. There is no way you can defend him after that you akbs. Your excuses would have run dry. I still think these bunch of players will bottle it as usual. Also I just read what Pep Guadanola said when he said he could not motivate the Barcelona players anymore after they lost to Chelsea. So that is why he left. I love hes honesty. I think wenger is in the same bracket. He just can not motivate the players anymore and the players look petrified in the big matches. Its really bizarre to watch when you see it. They look beat before they even step on the pitch. I fear another drubbing on Saturday as its another early kick off i.e 12:45. We seem to not play well when we have those early kick offs. Anyone remember the 6-1 and 5-1 mauling yeah I do. smh. I just don't see wenger beating mourhnio he has a terrible record against him. I hope we win, but I just don't see it with these bottlers who just don't produce in the big games. Eitehr they are just not good enough or the manager can not motivate them to play well in the big matches I expect its a mixture of the two. When you have a striker like giroud upfront then that says all you need to know . What a joke. No pace, then atleast be a lethal finisher he is neither.

  81. Ron

    Mar 20, 2014, 11:26 #47748

    Theres the irresolvable conundrum for you Terry, the void between a fans perception of 'success' and a Clubs perception of the same concept There isnt any coming together of the two, which pretty much makes all and every issue, thread, and word that we fans so enjoy offering up on here redundant. The fact is though that the Club can simply say to us fans 'look at the Arsenal FC we ve built, its a success story that all of the other Clubs would want to emulate irrespective of trophy lists so take it or leave it'. We have to accept that as a given, its hard but the rest is all discussion around the edges.

  82. Amos

    Mar 20, 2014, 11:08 #47747

    Your chances of winning the CL are even less realistic if you don't qualify for it Terry. Most of the teams competing in it have even less chance of winning it than we have. Same can be said of the PL but I'm pretty sure none would swap a PL place for one in the championship on the basis that they have more chance of winning that. Finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th every season means that you're not doing as well as those finishing 1st,2nd or 3rd every season but better than those finishing 3rd, 4th and 5th (or lower)every season. Success and failure are relative.

  83. Terry

    Mar 20, 2014, 10:55 #47746

    I kind of agree with Phil. However it is how you perceive success. Qualification for the CL to me is irrelevant if you have no realistic chance of winning it! Finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th every year means what exactly? To me this is not a tangible trophy that goes down in a list of honours WON. I think he lost his mojo when Dein was forced out. He now has his fingers in too many pies when he should be solely concentrating on the team. Tactically I am not sure that he has a plan B either. Not a great example I know, but does he ever make a game changing substitution (<60mins) other than to shore up the defence (>75mins)? I think this season will define whether he remains in charge or not.

  84. Ozzie

    Mar 20, 2014, 10:34 #47745

    The legacy of Arsenal's dominance during the 'Invincibles' years has left a lasting, bitter taste in the mouths of many a crushed ego. All they have to turn to is a cracked record called 'trophyless years.' Excuse me, but does anyone else remember the days when we lived the moment? When we turned up and enjoyed THE GAME with little thought of how it might affect the outcome in some distant months? Before our season begins everyone is talking finals, trophies, premierships...is there anyone left who is present? Who lives in and enjoys NOW?

  85. Ron

    Mar 20, 2014, 10:33 #47744

    Amos - re Mourinho. Nuff said. So true. The man lives on a very cleverly self constructed image. Hes a media circus like 'arry' Redknapp and 'Tel' Venables are/were but far more smoothly honed and far more sinister. A media mans dream ticket, even for those of limited abilities. Hes detested in Europes footballing arenas, where fans and the largely catholic societies and Clubs shun him and all he stands for. Thats why hes here. Only Chelsea wanted him and only the gutter media here have any truck with him. Them, Chelsea and Mourinho are a tripartite marriage made in heaven. All as equally tacky, crude and classless.

  86. chris dee

    Mar 20, 2014, 10:10 #47742

    Arsene is the best manager in Arsenal's history bar none. The last nine years have been bad (in comparison with the first nine years)for all of us. I have over the last few years, just as any fan, reacted badly to the results.But please please let's not lose sight over the fact that our move from Highbury to the Emirates has held us back financially and player wise on the pitch.Until the loan for the stadium was completely under control we have had to sell a stellar player or players every year until this year. This the first year we have paid a big transfer for star player without losing any of our own major players,and touch wood etc etc we could win a trophy for the first time in nine years. I don't think there are many managers who could have kept so many plates balancing at one time for the sake of our club than Arsene. Much of the critisism by tossers like Piers Morgan,and some on this site,has been nasty and vindictive and shows a complete lack of understanding of how the move to the Emirates was financed and how much it affected our ability to pay big transfer fees and wages to match,until this season. But as much as I admire Arsene if the F A Cup is not won this year he should walk away as it would be clear that he cannot motivate the players anymore. But the new contract remains unsigned which could mean Arsene's gonna go whatever happens.

  87. Ron

    Mar 20, 2014, 9:59 #47741

    Phil - spoken like a true f---ing idiot. Strange you spent so many decades watching a team you clearly hate. Are you ill? On the idiot fron though, theres 76000 most weeks up at OT, so youve got contemporaries. Youre no doubt from Guildford and couldnt find the M6 with a sat nav.

  88. Black Hei

    Mar 20, 2014, 9:58 #47740

    A fair comment will be that this season he has shown that he can change and admit he was wrong. The new found stability in defence has alot to do with a change in defensive tactics. It has worked wonders. Whether it is enough to turn it into a 3rd era is another matter. The challenges are even greater than ever with so many teams fighting for it. I hope he gets another 2 years to spend to his heart's content and go toe to toe with the big boys. After that, he should call it a day, at the very most, 20th year and that's it.

  89. Amos

    Mar 20, 2014, 9:50 #47739

    I'm pretty sure that the closest Ranieri got to a tile with Chelsea was 2nd once in the season (our unbeaten season)he was sacked and replaced by Mourinho. That season he was one of the few to beat the 'invincibles' in knocking us out of the CL. Mourinho took Ranieri's team (but really it was Abramovich's team hence most Chelsea managers win something!)on which Abramovich had spent an enormous amount of money and won the title with them. He won again in the following season but with fewer points and fewer points still in the following season when ManU beat them to the title. But the point that Mancini echoed recently, which is that Mourinho has never built a team but has always managed clubs that should win trophies, almost irrespective of the manager, remains a valid one.

  90. Bard

    Mar 20, 2014, 9:36 #47738

    An honourable tribute on his 1000 th game. Would have like a bit more bite and analysis of what's happened recently. I would argue he's been good for Arsenal but it's debatable whether he's a great manger. You think Clough, Shankly, Paisley, Ferguson and no I don't think he's in that league. As usual there's the familar misundstanding of those have the audacity criticise the Wenger regime. I think it's useful for you to have brought in the notion of eras. The first was fantastic, the second has been poor relatively although one could argue there were extenuating circumstances. Is he in shape for a third? The fact that he hasn't signed a new contract is proof that he is undecided and rightly so. Managing a football club is not the same as working for the civil service. The last 9 years have been trophyless, despite several opportunities. My own preference would be for him to win the FA cup and bow out with grace. Another botched transfer window and substandard purchases will reignite the dissent that was evident at the Villa game and what ever we think about him he doesn't like criticism.

  91. Unchives

    Mar 20, 2014, 9:33 #47737

    Arsene has done a great job despite the financial restrictions of the move and through his own failings. However he was interviewed on Mourinho on his success with Chelsea on his first stint there, Arsene stated that the team was actually created by Raneri who had just missed out on three titles by finishing second twice and third. However what Arsene failed to point out is why Mourinho was required. Mourinho knows how to finish the job.....that is why! It is this frustration that causes the friction and fraction amongst fellow gooners. He makes the same decisions, the same mistakes season upon season, until this one....we live in hope!

  92. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 20, 2014, 9:33 #47736

    Phil - if you're a Man Utd fan then maybe your time might be better used in an online discussion of your own team's present managerial incumbent. Leave us to discuss ours.

  93. Phil

    Mar 20, 2014, 9:03 #47735

    Dear Alex, I am a Manchester United fan so my opinion on things that are Arsenal is relevant! I've known things Arsenal way before Mr Wenger arrived!

  94. julesd

    Mar 20, 2014, 8:53 #47734

    The best thing to do is ignore the radio phone ins, anything Robbie Savage is on(we are all aware of the brilliant career he had running around like a headless chicken with a girlie gait) oh, and hair. The game fortunately has moved on and most of them wouldn't get a look in at a professional career today,the "in my day" debate doesn't hold water. Badarse I think the song is whatever you want to interpret it as, I do!

  95. Alex

    Mar 20, 2014, 8:50 #47733

    Phil, as a Chelsea fan your opinion on things Arsenal doesn't count as relevant in the slightest. Great article Peter - a beautiful summary of the divide among the Arsenal faithful about our manager. While I understand some of the criticism of Wenger, overall, I am very much amongst those fans who feel tremendously fortunate to have him lead The Arsenal.

  96. WENGER OUT

    Mar 20, 2014, 8:47 #47732

    A good article and in the main a fair one. Wenger has done some great things for this club and will be remembered forever for those great things and not I hope for the way he and his teams have embodied the 'handbrake on' phenomenon for the last 9 years - Repeat the same mantra about not being able to compete and the rubbish players lose their sense of accountability, with the better ones leaving for clubs who 'can compete'. A great man indeed, but, for me, too many excuses made over the last 9 years - Maybe you're right that the perceived austerity has irreversibly sculpted his management style - Personally I'm sure he could go on for another 20 years with us finishing in the top 4 for all 20 of them, but if we really want this to be a new era of success at Arsenal, change needs to come at the top.

  97. Phil.

    Mar 20, 2014, 8:43 #47731

    Dear Peter, Wenger did not respond to Mr Mourinho's opinion on him because it's the truth, he is a specialist in failure if you are to consider him a great! No back to back league titles, no league for eight years, no European Cup, 3 titles in 18 years, he's been a good manager but never a great! Yes, he has been in a marriage of convenience with the Arsenal board but Wenger is not comfortable spending large amounts of money! His big money signings have never worked such as Franny Jeffers, Antonio Reyes and Mr Ozil????? £42 million. Also, any Gonner worth their salt would rather have seen the ?invinsibles win back to back league titles than only come away with one league. But the media has always wet their knickers over Arsenal! I won't Arsenal fans talking about how to play football because I grew up watching your Glorious Donkey teams from the 70's, 80's and 90's!

  98. Amos

    Mar 20, 2014, 8:32 #47729

    There's no real schism in the Wenger debate just noise. The only opinion that has ever mattered here is the opinion of those with the power to hire or fire Wenger - and they are - and have been ever since he was appointed - unanimous in their support of the man. So much so that the decision as to whether he stays or goes is now Wenger's alone. We can pretend there's some sort of struggle going on between WOBs or AKBs, or whatever other silly acronym we find convenient to simplify (or more accurately mask) proper debate, but the reality is that there's no such struggle in the minds of those who contract him. There's a lot of internet noise which feeds media noise to some extent but there has been ever since the internet gave voice to every shade of opinion. You'll find some, even when Wenger was winning trophies claiming he couldn't be a great manager until he'd won back to back titles, but it's just noise really, of no real consequence other than to idly pass time on football forums. Whether Wenger goes or stays the club is now in great shape, largely because of what he and those around him have done, to deal with the future confidently. Those now controlling the club will continue along with pretty much the same principles that have guided the club over the last 17 years whoever is at the helm. They'll have learned to live with the noise.

  99. BADARSE

    Mar 20, 2014, 8:26 #47728

    A remarkably well-written and succinct appraisal of Arsene's reign, thank you Peter. True it reflects my own views, and if I was smoking now you might say it was all, 'smoke and mirrors', (that one was for you jjetplane-a bit like a cat bringing in a wounded bird?). I disagree with one point Ron. I don't ascribe to conspiracy theories as they have been popularised by the media, but a movement as in a common approach to any given subject is very real. It's a lynch-mob mentality, and the less-wicked are drawn in from the peripheries by the 'whirlpool effect'. AFC have been hated!??! ever since I was a child, loved beyond bounds by many, but a deep-seated hatred exists, no mistake. The jibes are orchestrated to an elementary level and then they take on a life of their own. Even Grannies in supermarkets that may not be able to name any one England player will be seen shuffling around with her trolley wearing a plastic 'England' bowler come the summer. The media know this, and play the public accordingly. It is too easy. It's why amongst a general acceptance that people have a different view to mine-on any topic-I get irked by the narrow clamour from the herd, especially the herd that has been led by rogues from the gutter-press etc. Thanks again Peter, this article is right up there with the best!

  100. Ron

    Mar 20, 2014, 8:08 #47727

    Arsene Wenger is a great man and a great coach. Opinions across the divide aren't valid or sensible if they don't have this as the starting point. The views that spin off this point are all just, opinions, some good, some wild, some stupid. The press love to compartmentalise. its their craft to do so.Just opinions though. No more valid than ours on here. You shdt become hooked into what many see as a negative approach by all of the media outlets towards Arsenal as a Club. The fact is that as long as ive been a supporter, circa 53 years or thereabouts its always been that way. Arsenal are unique. They talk of the 7/8/9 years thing because its a mark of respect. It might be grudging respect but respect nonetheless. They expect our club to win and be at the forefront of the game. The likes of Tottenham aren't subject to such scrutiny as nothings expected. Enjoy the negative spotlight. Its borne of a maelstrom envy, jealousy, respect, hate, desire, expectation, wisful thinking, whatever you like, but its the Arsenal, perhaps the most talked about Club in Britain such is their class and pedigree.I d venture, every other Club and every other fan of every other club would want our pres/media scrutiny given the choice.