A Vital Three Points

Online Ed: Arsenal overcome Hammers



A Vital Three Points


Having won only two of their previous nine league fixtures, with a consequent slide down the table, Arsenal desperately needed the three points last night, although the ponderous way they performed for most of the first half gave you no indication of any sense of urgency. I remarked to my neighbour that if you did not know, one would assume that there remained nothing to play for this season where either side was concerned. I was put in mind of a particular Neil Young song from the mid-1970s.

With both Aaron Ramsey and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain returning to the bench, I also thought of Bernard Joy’s famous book ‘Forward Arsenal’ and pondered if an updated version taking in events towards the latter part of Arsene Wenger’s tenure might be titled ‘Sideways Arsenal’. Because the lack of penetrative play was alarming. Olivier Giroud returned to the starting line-up and enjoyed by far the best chance of the game before the visitors scored. Rather than blast it with his right he tried to engineer a chip with his favoured left foot and ended up with a meek effort easily parried by the visitors’ keeper.

Eventually West Ham took advantage and an inability to prevent Nocerino closing in on the six yard box from wide ended up with the ball loose in front of the goal and an opportune header for Matt Jarvis to give them the lead. Fortunately, it proved something of a wake up call and just before the interval, Cazorla fed Podolski and he found the net with unerring precision.

Kim Kallstrom made his full debut and took time to get into the game, although in the second half started to show why he has gained over 100 caps for Sweden. It corresponded with Arsenal dominating the play with a little more purpose and fathoming two further goals to make the game safe, through Giroud, using his right foot this time after some excellent work to bring a through ball under control, and Podolski again. For the latter player, it was an excellent response after his hooking in the semi-final on Saturday.

To return briefly to that game, in my piece on Sunday, I opined the belief that Podolski was being booed when substituted because, with the team 1-0 down, he was trudging off the field at slow pace as if his side had all the time in the world. I have been corrected by so many people that I accept I misread the situation. Arsene Wenger was being booed for making this particular change (Giroud coming on for the German instead of taking off Sanogo). At the time, I could not get my head around the idea that the manager was being booed for four reasons –
1 – The manager was changing the formation to 4-4-2 – a plan B! Tactical change! Hoorah! Why would anyone boo that? We have been crying out for it, surely.
2 – Sanogo, although unable to convert chances, was certainly creating problems for the Wigan defence with his awkwardness, pace and sheer physicality. Along with the Ox he was the only player that seemed to be offering anything in attack.
3 – Podolski – although by far not the only one – had not played well at all up to that point.
4 – I couldn’t contemplate such huge numbers of Arsenal fans booing the manager at a cup semi-final at Wembley. I for one, was just glad to see him trying something so obviously different as the inability to break down Wigan with the usual Arsenal style was alarming. However, what it evidently demonstrates is that the tide has turned against the manager for the majority now. And this, more than anything, was something I could not bring myself to believe after the reasons that change is needed having been evident for several seasons. The penny has finally dropped. It seems to have taken the title collapse and the heavy away defeats for the majority to see what has been obvious for a long time now, back to at least 2009 and arguably a year earlier.

So I stand corrected on the booing at Wembley. And my apologies for reading it wrong.

It was significant that Podolski played the entire 90 minutes last night and, in the parlance of the club interviews after poor performances, gave a ‘response’. Let’s hope for more of the sort of football we saw in the second half against West Ham in the remaining matches of the season. The introduction of Ramsey from the bench improved things even further.

It is interesting that, as in the last couple of seasons, it has boiled down to Arsenal needing to fend off a team challenging for the fourth spot by taking enough points from their final matches. And there we were hoping to be in the mix for the title. Deep down, I think everyone knew it was probably a long shot, but most suspended their disbelief because the team was holding on to first place up until the beginning of February. Still, we have been here before, so what followed was unfortunately all too predictable. And it was the reason TV pundits were consequently asked – can Arsenal really win the title? Unfortunately, Liverpool’s run of form could mean that the idea a team with Arsenal’s resources are unable to compete with the petrodollar funded clubs will no longer be the fallback position to explain failure. And the very fact that on an even more modest budget Everton are giving Arsenal a run for their money in the league indicates clearly the advantage a fresh, innovative, tactical manager can bring to a club.

The stress Arsene Wenger was reputedly demonstrating on the touchline on Saturday (I was sat high above and behind him so only saw his back most of the time) indicates that he may not be enjoying the job as much as he did, and perhaps the FA Cup has suddenly assumed an importance for him because he has decided to go and wishes to depart on a high. Fourth place and a genuine trophy, along with an announcement that he is going to hand over the reins would be as good a way to bow out as he is going to achieve now. This season has clearly demonstrated that the chances of him managing a team to another Premier League title or the Champions League are pie in the sky. What more can he achieve other than £17 million for two years work? He certainly does not need the money.

The board certainly want him to stay, but the ideal scenario is that he privately informed the board this is his final season a while ago, and behind the scenes, there have been discussions with potential replacements. The manager electing his successor would certainly not be a good idea. With the funds the board are willing to pay for a new man, there should be no issue recruiting someone of very high quality. Still, that’s pipe dream stuff at the moment. The reality is that the manager is probably prevaricating in the style he does where transfer negotiations are concerned and it will all be a bit last minute. There are hints, such as the appointment of Andries Jonker to head the Academy from this summer, that key decisions regarding the running of the club are being taken by the directors instead of the manager. The Academy has been a failure done Wenger’s way and its Grade A status is under threat unless there is marked improvement. What significance that Jonker has worked under Louis Van Gaal at more than one club? But of course, the current incumbent might stay. The implications of that are for another day.

Now, the task is simple. Five football matches, all against opposition Arsenal should be able to beat, all of which probably need to be won. Everton will surely drop at least a couple of points somewhere, and hopefully the Gunners will score enough in their ‘easier’ run-in to overcome the goal difference of minus four. A positive end to the season after the total collapse in February and March, and that monkey off the back where trophies are concerned.

The current issue of The Gooner will be on sale before the Youth Cup game on Thursday v Chelsea and away on Sunday at Hull. It can also be bought online here. A new issue will be out for the Newcastle game.

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comments

  1. Gaz

    Apr 21, 2014, 0:57 #49894

    Spurred on you must be an arsenal supporter

  2. BADARSE

    Apr 20, 2014, 18:21 #49879

    Good evening gentlemen and ladies. News update from the northernmost reaches of this Albion. The questers are straggling along heading southwards, a happy and victorious band of brothers and sisters. The digit man, west of the lower, sits astride his steed beckoning the be-jewelled damsel Julesd to his side. He has fired arrows with accuracy throughout, yelling even odd things like, 'Oche!' in a broad Highlander dialect, and 'One nun dead or eighty!' Julesd carries the sign of the hedgehog with pride. Those on foot salute it. This free army turns and heads for home, onwards the caravan begins it's triumphant journey. A huge 'hurrah' goes up from the ranks to the maiden of the warrior who is known as Bear from the Ally. This frolicking group, marching to the lyre's tuneful melodies played upon by ArKay, and Da Doo Ron Ron bangs his drum unmercilessly. Sounds of 'hay-straw, hay-straw', lends itself to the marching feet. Rocky the RIP, his blood-letting dirk sheathed snugly for another day, waves to cheering local people, his name will live long, mark my words, none would gainsay anything differently. They laid waste the outlands with a three-pronged victory and the man who wears the Welsh Dragon led the charge to the line, perhaps as the long-winded one suggested, he may be the one to carry us over the line. Once more I ask of you, cry god for Louie, Huey and St. Dewey.

  3. Stevieo

    Apr 20, 2014, 17:05 #49878

    I'm starting to see this refereeing conspiracy that's rife on here. Clattenburg doing his best to make sure United don't have Europa football and help Everton finish above us. How was that a penalty? Clearly ball to hand for the first. And I bet he wouldn't have played the advantage for the second had it been Arsenal!

  4. Stevieo

    Apr 20, 2014, 16:33 #49877

    I see Niall Quinn has reverted to goldfish brain punditry in that all looks fine once again. I think Hull's exertions in the Cup was a telling factor, as they looked fatigued. I also think it would be foolish to underestimate the off field name change saga that has dragged on all season. It looked evident to me that this had clearly got to the players. God knows how Hull will cope next season with the added burden of European football?

  5. Wanger's departure has the handbrake a little-bit on (WORSE LUCK)

    Apr 20, 2014, 15:59 #49876

    Westie - nice one! Rest assured I'm nothing of the sort. But I do know Spurts had a great side at the time. Yes, I was alive back then. What about you? Anymore years with Wanger at the helm and we won't dare, OR DO! We need a poster called East Upper - what do you think?

  6. jjetplane

    Apr 20, 2014, 15:37 #49875

    Walk in the park. What was the fuss about. Give him the contract. The old Arsenal are back. Triangular passing, Arteta mopping up, better strike force than cheating Liverpool. Ozil is happy. Goals galore. Toffees Hah! I am so ****ing bored .....

  7. Westlower

    Apr 20, 2014, 15:11 #49874

    @Wengers departure, You must be a Spud yourself as there can't be many people on this site who can remember when TH achieved the double. 53 years and counting.........to dare is to do!

  8. DW Thomas

    Apr 20, 2014, 14:47 #49873

    Arteta has to be the slowest player on the field every game. Ramsey just scored a good goal. He really has transformed despite having a manager who is an excuse maker. But, no, Ozil has been so much better. I have always liked Rambo, but criticized him heavily when he was playing very poorly and couldn't buy a goal. I eat the humble pie now as he is everything i like about a tough central MF. Grit if any of 'em have it. What he has improved the most is his ability to attack and not lose the ball too often. He isn't scared to go forward. We need more like him. Not just Ozils.

  9. DW Thomas

    Apr 20, 2014, 14:23 #49872

    Just watched the end to the Liverpool game. They won a tight game again, and look like champions. Young Sterling has really come on this season and it doesn't hurt to have a guy like Suarez to bail you out if needed. The biggest thing about our manager is his lack of meekness. He is never responsible for his failings,nor his team. Always someone or something else's fault. Yet, he kept Bendtner, non? He sold Fabregas and RVP, non. Merde! How many times will the fans bail him out with no stipulations? Sure, give him a contract, but not without consequences for failure or no improvement. If he were evaluated on winning something: failed. Transfers: failed. Beating your rivals: failed. Keeping your best players: failed. Motivating: failed. Even things like allowing Vermaelen to drop down the pecking order as our captain. He is a class player that went through some injury issues and lacked form for awhile. But discipline comes from the manager. Look what Rogers has done with Liverpool since last season. Incroyable! But, remember, Ozil will be player of the year next year!? I read into that he's thinking of leaving and that is how Wenger gets them to stay. And what about Ramsey who was player of the year till he got injured? Another example of Wenger's ridiculous antics and philosophies. Past glories do not excuse today's epic fall from 1st to 4th. When you'd take 2nd for 20 years, there ya go...

  10. theresonlyonearsenewenger

    Apr 20, 2014, 13:54 #49871

    With the way results have been going with the other top teams if we hadn't suffered so many injuries ( caused by other teams targeting us ) and had less dodgy calls by refs ( biased against us )and Sky hadn't unfairly moved our playing times more than any other team and we had managed to buy 2-3 top top players ( can't compete with the financially doped teams ) and our silly boys had stopped taking hair restorer and we had dropped out of all cup competitions early,and stopped forgetting to release the handbrake, then we could have won the premiership. So Arsene has definitely overachieved to keep us 4th. God bless him and long may he reign O’er us

  11. Wenger's departure has the handbrake a little-bit on (WORSE LUCK)

    Apr 20, 2014, 13:01 #49870

    @ Westlower - since 60/61? Spurts did the double then. Perhaps you're a spud who revels in Wanger's Teflon attributes, and subscribes to that effect. Wanger is a cack on-field manager...end of actually!

  12. jjetplane

    Apr 20, 2014, 12:50 #49869

    Arsenal are a sickly club. Only just caught some Liver/Citeh highlights and watching how Liver muscle players off the ball. Suarez is brilliant at it. Wenger is fast becoming a forgotten man in modern football. He was given way too much praise in the first place and he may make others think 'cor what a clever bloke' but I always thought with all that Wonga his English is still Cluzot-level. His brain, well a decade to add 3 players and we get postmen and men making love to cabs. Between the coconuts and the ducks, there you will find Arsenal. Thank **** there is more to football than this. Stirling,Suarez, St Steve bad bwoys hey hehe. I love em cause I hope Citeh, Chelski get nought. Haha talking on the radio about a spring in Arsene's step if the 4th and two bob cup (their words) come through. Think the media say this because they are bored with Wenger and this Arsenal and they want to move on to other stuff.

  13. Stevieo

    Apr 20, 2014, 12:29 #49868

    Yes history has proved in the last ten years when we threw the domestic cups by playing our kids and reserve players, wenger brought home the bacon didn't he? This year when we go for it, look how different things have panned out to say, the last 8 years.

  14. Gaz

    Apr 20, 2014, 12:27 #49867

    Must admit I'm so looking forward to when we possibly win a league title in the same way as Liverpool to hearing our fans play it down because we've played less games than our rivals...

  15. jjetplane

    Apr 20, 2014, 12:00 #49866

    BADARSE Now anti cherry picking your Donnesque posts so like wordogram we get'narrow mind set' & 'puerile'. Sometimes they are most entertaining old bean. How fayres Merseyside? The news from Macamland is ... Stan wants Poyet because Sir Pulis wants to get the Eagles in Europe. It's all happening everywhere else. Happy easter Baddonne!

  16. BADARSE

    Apr 20, 2014, 11:54 #49865

    allybear, yes why do we bother? So funny, so true, well done to the lady of allybear, also my commiserations for being hooked up with a crazy Gooner. Oh wow again 24601. Have you given collective headaches to many? Certainly. Will they disagree with your views? Absolutely. Did I savour every mote? Naturally. Tonight we meet at dawn, hopefully for the hedgehog roast. Come on my redmen!

  17. Gaz

    Apr 20, 2014, 11:49 #49864

    @westlower: thing is we can't do anything about injuries (well we can prevent them possibly but that's another story...). What we can do something about is making sure our squad is set up in such a way that we give ourselves the best possible chance of doing well. Wenger has now had at least three windows to bring in a quality striker and failed to do so on every occasion. Think of it like this-despite our injuries, despite the TV schedule, and despite all the excuses out there IF we'd had a real quality striker this season we might still be in a position to win the title. Then again-and once again despite all the excuses-no top side should ever lose games by the kind if margins we have. Period.

  18. Westlower

    Apr 20, 2014, 11:40 #49863

    @Torbay gooner, Sadly no. I'm just an old school Gooner who'S been watching AFC since the 60/61 season. Wenger is still a pup in comparison.

  19. Torbay gooner

    Apr 20, 2014, 11:30 #49862

    Westlower, are you not Arsene Wenger in disguise?

  20. Westlower

    Apr 20, 2014, 10:53 #49861

    Some may doubt the consequences of extended cup runs, injuries, refs decisions & TV scheduling. This weeks results give further food for thought. How can Man City & Chelsea who both took an early lead at home, fail to beat relegation threatened Sunderland. Even the much maligned AFC beat them 3-1 & 4-1. Could it be Sunderland outclassed the PL's big two clubs? No, to that one. Could it be Chelsea & Man City struggled without injured key players, Hazard & Aguero? Many on this site reckons it matters not one jot who's out injured. Could it be Chelsea were the victims of a bad referring decision? Well Maureen would buy into that argument, but of course we're told regularly that these things even themselves out. Could it be Chelsea fell foul of the game being brought forward 24 hours by SKY, to assist their CL challenge? Possibly. Could it be Chelsea were distracted by their CL semi final game looming large on Tuesday? Quite likely. Could it be Man City are fatigued by extended Cup runs? Possibly. Could it be that current FA Cup holders Wigan, were relegated last season because they were distracted by their great Cup run. Probably. Are Sunderland about to be relegated after reaching the LC final? Probably. Liverpool & Everton have been the great beneficiaries of the heavy fixture commitments of their nearest rivals.

  21. allybear

    Apr 20, 2014, 10:28 #49860

    BADARSE thank you for your comments and my wife wants to know why i bother with this forum! Well i tell her i enjoy it and that I relish the comments when i say anything about OGL! I think that you will agree that there is a decided lack of motivation and consistency from our esteemed leader. I also would like to state that my criticisms of AW is of his management and not as a human being. Lets not criticise him anymore and enjoy his leadership for the next number of years and the many trophies to come and all the top top players that will arrive!

  22. BADARSE

    Apr 20, 2014, 10:04 #49859

    allybear you may be bang on with your assessment, half right or possibly a little less. The latter may be because it is virtually impossible to determine how individuals will perform or teams fare at any one time, er no, it's not virtually impossible, it is impossible! Sometimes the stronger may switch off a little and the weaker step up a little, this is often enough to explain the outcome of the two matches you refer to, but I don't know if it was true in these instances of course. It's just speculation, assumption, and a bit of calculated guesswork on my part. As with many on this site who share your general view I can suggest the following. Recognise that other fans hold a different view, based on a different approach to the situation at AFC. They are neither wrong, or pathetic, as you accuse-they are different. I would never dream of insulting you for your beliefs and views. I think they are an oversimplification of circumstances, with an incorrect conclusion, but I understand how the answer is arrived at by your good self- perhaps that's experience at work, or just mistaken electrical impulses firing through the synapses and I can't help it. Recently Tony Benn died and I revered the man. I was neither right or wrong to do so. That is me. Did I see all through his eyes? Nope. I am an atheist, an actively outspoken one at that, he was tugged down the religious road by his wife Caroline I think, whom he loved dearly, and it gave him no doubt her also, immense comfort. I would never want to take away anyone's security blanket, but I thought his approach was wrong, yet I still revered him. Why? Because he was a human being and I agreed with much and learned enormous amounts from him. He had feet of clay though as does Arsene Wenger, you and I. Anyway I have to unfurl my pennant, and polish my codpiece, as later we march on the land of the Tigers. Good old Arsenal. A wife preparing for a night out is in the bathroom wearing her little black dress. Hubby shuffles in and the wife says, 'Does my bum look big in this?' Hubby replies, 'Oh be fair love, it is a small bathroom!'

  23. Stevieo

    Apr 20, 2014, 10:03 #49858

    Gaz, it's simply a lost cause. It really is a case that you are as good as your last game with our fans. The 2011 season was worse for me with our season virtually over after a handful of games and the 8-2. Such negligence and ill preparation should have led to a sacking, but even back then wenger was exempt and the board was being blamed? If wenger survived that, this latest farce is easily swept under the carpet. Let's be honest too. This has been our most successful campaign since 2006, whether we win or lose the cup final. We really should be skipping with joy with such massive progress. Even listening to parlour and winterburn last week, they still think we're only 3 players away from challenging? They never seem to get tired of dragging that line out.

  24. Gaz

    Apr 20, 2014, 9:50 #49857

    @allybear: saddest thing for me is that I used to absolutely love and admire Wenger. Guess the easiest way to describe it is by saying I was a fully paid up member of the AKB gang! Then I started being critical but ended every sentence by saying 'I don't want him to go but I want him to change'. In my own mind I felt I'd been really loyal especially as I never bought into the argument that he'd had no money to spend. Then last year really was the last straw for me. Tried to 'get back on board' but this season-in my eyes-has been an utter disaster. Now when I see Wenger I feel that he's taking me for a mug and if he had any shred of respect for the club he'd leave because he's taken us as far as he can. In my eyes he's stating simply because he runs the whole club, has nobody to answer to, and is just about the highest paid manager in world football. I'm beginning to dislike him because in my eyes he's not staying because he thinks he can take us forward but he's staying because quite frankly he'll never get an easier gig than this. Hate saying it but that's how I feel...

  25. allybear

    Apr 20, 2014, 9:21 #49856

    @Gaz well said mate its pathetic how this man is forgiven time after time for all his cock ups and heavy defeats. The bad news is that he is signing the contract extension. I just cannot understand the admiration for him. It seems he can do no wrong and as you say the board know that the fans back him.How can Sunderland get 2 results and we get hammered by City&Chelsea? The answer is the manager has a plan&knows how to motivate his players who give their all for him. Imagine more years of this hasbeen in charge.

  26. Spurred on

    Apr 20, 2014, 9:12 #49855

    The Arsenal fans remind me of Oliver Twist: "Please, Sir, may I have some more?" No doubt Sir will oblige. Happy 2015 FOLKS.

  27. Gaz

    Apr 20, 2014, 7:42 #49854

    Come on, you must all sense it now? Titles well out of the way, Champions league a distant memory, the pressures off, so the glorious 'run in' to fourth is well under way! Wenger and fans alike talking about 'corners turned' and 'points made' after two (yes two!) 'fantastic' victories over Wigan and West Ham! Giroud-who's been mostly awful-is now full of confidence and proved all his critics wrong with his goal the other night. All the usual daft excuses-injuries, Cup runs and TV schedules are being trotted out to vindicate another mostly disappointing season that owes far much more to Wengers atrocious transfer policy than those excuses above. Forget the fact we've suffered some of the most humiliating defeats in our history, forget the fact that OGL-who plans for everything-took us into a season with one average striker, one who's not ready and Bendtner. Forget the fact Wenger was owned-once again by Mourinho-and forget the fact that Sunderland-the bottom side-have managed to do twice we haven't done in ages. Forget the fact that Liverpool, Atletico and to a lesser extent the mighty Sunderland have shown just because you shouldn't compete with the wealthier clubs out there it doesn't mean you can't. In all honesty it hurts my damn head now! Really felt the pressure was building on AW and there was a chance he might leave. But no-despite everything that's happened this season a few wins when the pressures off and suddenly he's a genius again and the right man to lead us through another two seasons. We really are an easy bunch of fans to please and sadly the club know this all too well...

  28. Any Old Iron

    Apr 20, 2014, 7:08 #49853

    Yea in my haste to post last night I forgot to say "Happy anniversary MG."

  29. Spurred on

    Apr 20, 2014, 5:23 #49852

    That means you're as firmly set as concrete, like Wenger's tactics...

  30. BADARSE

    Apr 20, 2014, 3:39 #49851

    Wet the bed again! Not really, been up owl watching, er, not really, guilt, over having too much money which allows me time on my hands to enjoy it by posting, er not really, getting ready for morning visit to church in sackcloth and ashes mode, er not really. Just have a sleep disorder, perhaps. Hobart, I always find some people's concern about other's money as an insight into narrow mind sets. What I offer, a little awareness, knowledge, experience, insight, and views galore on virtually all things, literature, arts, politics, religions, philosophy, history, geography, circuses, garden creatures, quester's movements et al has nothing to do with how much money I earn, or have earnt. It is virtually irrelevant except that sometimes it aids an individual to take his head out of the sand and look skywards for a while. That often allows many to become complete idiots so it isn't foolproof, look at the MPs and government we have-I think that is a perfect example to chew over. If a manager earns 'x' it is unconnected with anyone's judgement of ability beyond the comparison with others in a similar job. If it is so important to compare then loyalty, history and a multitude of facets lends itself to a pay packet, these are valid considerations too. Any obsessed with the situation enough to constantly refer to it are trapped in a quagmire of misunderstanding. Life is fickle enough, full of chance and diverse enough to reward in different fashions. So too with those with an attitude who claim our manager only wants to win the CL, and purposely throws games and sacrifices the season to achieve that end. It's puerile. This from a man who craves winning, as every close friend confirms. Even when someone with the respect of many says so it is dismissed; mind sets are too strong and unshakeable. David Dein still goes out for dinner with Arsene but will not if Arsenal lose-he is too morose as company. Human nature is interesting, even if fairly predictable. DW Thomas your last post was quite uplifting. On this site, as in any everyday circumstance or forum we are judging others, measuring ourselves against them. The herd instinct. This to confirm that popular opinion favours us or if we have strayed off piste with our views. I don't really give a hoot what others think, (that's what owl-watching does to you), once I have evaluated and determined my route. I am perfectly at peace with myself. AFC is a big part of my life too. All the ups and downs influencing my moods. I have worked at it over the decades to control my passions when necessary...I have a partial success rate. However I have long been able to filter out many irrational childlike whinings. I see this as a throwback to temper tantrums directed at Mum and Dad. 'You have disappointed me so I will kick and scream'. It's so naff. It is natural to be saddened, disappointed, even angered when a real complaint is justified. Too many are imagined though. I am glad you were talked down off the ledge at Gaz's BBQ. You are a necessary component of this site. I hope the nightmares taper off chum, your mirror image still camps with the questers. The thinker who is 'D' lies alone in his tent, sleeping on his back, cap pulled down tightly over his eyes. With each breath out the red and white feathers on it lifts and tickles his nose. He is smiling, dreaming of his damsel foolishly and lovingly, tickling him. Tomorrow he will go to do battle with fortitude alongside the sign of the hedgehog. Enough!

  31. Spurred on

    Apr 20, 2014, 0:25 #49850

    The Arse get flogged by the top teams who then get beaten by the cellar dwellers, really says a lot about the quality of your team.

  32. Any Old Iron

    Apr 19, 2014, 21:20 #49849

    I hate to say it, after today's result at the Bridge it's now a certainty Chelsea will make the Lisbon final. That's how football works., Liverpool - name on the trophy! The Mackems take 'em and we ship 6. The value of tactics and evaluating your opponent cannot be undervalued. Sending them out to just try and play passy passy tippy tappy has failed year in year out. The Youth cup was a carbon copy as mentioned by other posters. The recent results in the EPL more than ever have shown that this is another season where a gilt edged chance to win the title has been blown by Wanger yet again. Sick of this sh**E!

  33. jjetplane

    Apr 19, 2014, 20:48 #49848

    Exactly - going by the new logic Poyet has to be a better manager than Wenger and the reason Liverpool will win the PL is because they cheated their way out of all the other trophies leaving themselves with the easy one. Funny how Wenger has fallen away from every known trophy for nine years but that's fine now that he has a chance for glory in a cup both he and his disciples hate. Have it with pleasure! Await now the Maureen meltdown which began in Madrid and is haunting again. My little are falling to bits in what may become irreparable (in one week!) so what a topsy-turvy it all is.

  34. Stevieo

    Apr 19, 2014, 20:11 #49847

    Amazing how bottom team Sunderland can go to both City and Chelsea and trash their title aspirations. Not a 6 goal filleting in sight? I'm sure City fans will be fully understanding and put their result down to their league cup run. Chelsea were always going to lose to Sunderland having got to the CL semis, because that's how it works. Saying that, Sunderland had a good cup run, so in the grand scheme of things, makes these results all the more remarkable. Oh let me guess. They must be bottom of the league because of their cup run?

  35. jjetplane

    Apr 19, 2014, 19:39 #49846

    'Chelsea fans leaving in droves ...' The poetry is too great. Maureen laughs at penalty call and later he will scream in his sleep. Beacons light up the Mersey. Never been a fan of Liverpool but this is what we want of the PL spectacle. Much merriment and collapse. What a sideshow Arsenal have become. Why-a-duck.

  36. Green Hut

    Apr 19, 2014, 18:38 #49845

    hobart- Yes some of us are, although others don't think it's nearly enough. Happy Anniversary maguiresbrudge, hope you didn't miss us win a glorious league title for that soppy honeymoon thing!

  37. Bard

    Apr 19, 2014, 18:24 #49844

    How quickly our epic slide from first to fourth in the blink of an eye is forgotten. No it's all congratulations for fourth spot. Once again the genius has done it again. Westie I love your b**** for having the front to trot out the 'but for the injuries 'excuse. How many seasons have we been moaning about injuries ? Anything useful to say about why he went into a season with 1 striker ? If memory serves me you were waffling on about Barry being good enough and then Sanogo being the real deal ... Er 10 out of 10 for enthusiasm zilch for football knowledge . Green Hut am with you 100% mate

  38. Stevieo

    Apr 19, 2014, 18:04 #49843

    Westie. Whats the protocol for Chelsea's CL game on Tuesday? Will you still be cheering them on hoping they go as far as they can, possibly winning the thing again? Whilst we can still mathematically catch them, surely you can't throw the towel in with your hypothesis?

  39. hobart

    Apr 19, 2014, 17:41 #49842

    you guy's are really pissed about Arsene's salary aren't you?

  40. Gare K

    Apr 19, 2014, 16:37 #49841

    Oh Lord, here we go again the usual pathetic excuses into why The Arsenal’s title and European Cup challenge has faltered yet again. Injuries, fatigue, TV scheduling (remind where a lot of football clubs income comes from again?), bad refereeing decisions and the best of all, an unwanted FA Cup run which has got 99.9% of Gooners excited. To the Gooners who genuinely believe all that stuff, continue to believe in your deluded heads that this current Arsenal team is at the level of Bayern Munich, Real Madrid & dare I say it, Chelsea. Barcelona are not the force of old and they would probably still take this Arsenal side apart. Ramsey was tiring pre-injury, Walcott missed the best part of two months before his current injury setback, Diaby, let’s not even think he’s influential, Ozil so far has been hit-and-miss but I expect him to improve next term and as for Wilshire; as talented as he is, when the jumped-up *******-up idiot finally decides what he can and cannot do on a football pitch, maybe he’ll avoid less injuries. Blaming Daniel Agger is pathetic but so is the stupid petition by some Gooners to the FA to have him subsequently banned. Some Arsenal will believe anything to support their expert view. @Maguiresbridge Gooner; happy anniversary mate!

  41. Westlower

    Apr 19, 2014, 16:21 #49840

    @Highbury Boy, Point taken on the under 21 players. Jack Wilshire is now an 'old man' of 22 but Ox still qualifies as an under age player, as do Sanogo 21 in Jan 2014 & Miyaichi 21 in Dec 2013. With Kallstrom signing in Jan we have 23 senior players + 10 under 21 (at start of season). Assuming Bendtner, Fabianski and/or Viviano, leaves that gives us scope to sign a new goal keeper and another striker. Then depends who else moves on, Arteta? Flamini? Kallstrom? Can't agree that we haven't missed Walcott, Ramsey, Ox, Wilshire & Ozil for lengthy spells of the season.

  42. Green Hut

    Apr 19, 2014, 16:11 #49839

    Westlower- When you have ONE decent centre-forward in your squad, what you can anticipate is fatigue (the word you used). You bleat about our injuries (mostly in, as Highbury Boy said, the one area that we are overloaded), but we have been incredibly lucky that Giroud has missed only one league game through injury despite being run into the ground by Wenger, although in some games it has been easy to forget he is on the pitch. To have to start an FA Cup Semi Final with Yaya Sanogo up front is a disgrace. Fair enough you don't know what can be done to rectify our annual injury crisis problem, but there is a man at the club on £7m a year who should know. Other factors at play? Think you've been on the sherry and talking to the Easter Bunny again haven't you mate. Either that or reading Untold Arsenal blogs. PS Do you have the latest odds on Man City being banned from the Champions League next season? I reckon they'll be pretty generous if you fancy lumping on.

  43. Highbury Boy

    Apr 19, 2014, 15:02 #49838

    Don't let us use the injury excuse. All clubs get some injuries. You could say we have been lucky in that most of our injuries have been to midfielders where we are well stocked. If our lone striker were injured or we had 2 centre backs out injured or suspended at the same time we would have had bigger problems. The 25 man squad rule doesn't include under 21 year olds so injured players like Miyachi,Gnabry and Wilshere are not even included in the 25 man rule. Also always renewing Diaby's contract means we always have a minimum of one player out injured.

  44. DW Thomas

    Apr 19, 2014, 14:54 #49837

    Tomorrow, Easter egg hunts and family gatherings will make it tough to catch the game. Yet, some excitement is creeping in as it is a preview to the Cup final. Enjoying all this garden talk and love the diversity of all you lads and the opinions on everything that isn't Arsenal. Those might bring me more joy than any else on this site! As for the state of our world and parenting, I agree with many of you. We are becoming addicted to our technology and turning into a "generation of idiots"! The media and big corporations tell us what and how to eat, raise our kids, take care of our homes, etc., etc. And we need to upgrade everything every 1-2 years. what lasts anymore? Just 40, I remember as a kid we were outside all,day till lunch, a quick bite then back till dark or our parents noticed it was bedtime. Even then, we whined to them that everyone else was staying out later! Do hope we enjoy the game tomorrow as more important things should take our interest than a football club that would replace us as fans if needed in an instant. I still play on Sundays with a great group of lads,one an Arsenal fan, and it still gives me great pleasure to play and be outdoors. If I keep perspective on the good in my life, I am a much happier Arsenal fan! Am I becoming an optimist? Not likely...

  45. Westlower

    Apr 19, 2014, 14:36 #49836

    @Green Hut, How do you anticipate injuries? Sadly we've had up to 8 players out at any one time. Each club is only allowed a squad of 25 players per season so you cannot keep adding to the squad willy nilly. Man City have spent heavily & pay on average £5m per year to each player but they have arguably achieved no more than AFC. They are currently awaiting punishment for their over spending, which may incur a ban from the CL. Yes, it's worrying that we get so many injuries and I don't know what can be done to improve the situation. Maybe not releasing players for International friendlies may be a step in the right direction, eg, Giggs was reluctantly freed up by Fergie for internationals. For tomorrow, we have 6 definitely out + 2 doubtful, West Ham & Hull have no injury problems at all. Chelsea & Palace have only one player out injured. Is it luck or other factors at play?

  46. BADARSE

    Apr 19, 2014, 13:52 #49835

    Interesting accumulation of statistics 24601. It is almost graphically obvious. Having a reduced number of matches does not necessarily mean you will win the PL but if you are well enough equipped and have a reasonably good side you are in with a very good chance. It is the same with money clubs and those less financially endowed. The latter might always win the title in any land but realism has a stranglehold on outcomes and usually the richer and more powerful clubs take the spoils. You as a betting man have an innate understanding of this due to being a mathematician. As a man of science and also mathematics it is lucidly clear to me too. If only someone had said let's go into the tank, (and take a dive), for the League Cup game, oh, you did.

  47. Green Hut

    Apr 19, 2014, 13:46 #49834

    Too true Westlower, isn't it tragic that Wenger had neither the time or resources to strengthen his squad sufficiently for the battles ahead. If only he had had all Summer and January, a worldwide network of scouts and tens of millions of pounds burning a hole in his pocket, eh?

  48. Westlower

    Apr 19, 2014, 12:48 #49833

    If Liverpool win the PL they will only have played 43 games, the lowest number of games the Champions have played since 1956. AFC will have played 56 games, 23% more than Liverpool. Fatigue is a factor when the games come thick & fast once the FA Cup games kick in & PL games are rearranged midweek. CL games compound the problem. Man City are living proof that no club can compete successfully in 4 competitions simultaneously. Sadly but predictably, TV scheduling has also become an unwelcome factor.

  49. BADARSE

    Apr 19, 2014, 10:55 #49832

    English sportsmanship lies bleeding in the gutter, 24601. With icons like Terry, Rooney, Lampard, Beckham, Ferdinand and Cole it is no surprise. The mention of Italian footballing foul play resurrects an old newspaper heading from our 1970 Euro Fairs Cup run, locked away in my mind. 'Lazio, the animals of Rome.' For Young Guns this alludes to our game there when at the after match reception their players ganged up on, and tried to pick off some of our lads. The details are a bit confused, but Frank McLintock was the avenger. His gorbal street-fighting skills came to the fore-he could never back down. There were scuffles, set-to's and punch ups aplenty. We had the last laugh though. Liverpool? Just another football team. To us and people like Ron, Everton were the big team and Liverpool the parvenus. News from the questers. They have broken camp, some endeavoured to do this in a literal sense last eve, one bellicose lad, Da Doo Ron Ron, full of mead, challenged the whole north eastern corner of this Albion, to a game of Tiddle The Winks. He plays to an odd southern set of rules and became demonstrably wild when he failed to get his Winks to Tiddle. Another who hails from the coastal southern regions was a danger to himself and other kinfolk. He was always paddling in the stream with a knotted cloth upon his dome and baring his nether regions. He was seen rolling, and lighting often and set light to his whiskers on many an occasion. Fare thee well. More updates later.

  50. Westlower

    Apr 19, 2014, 9:38 #49831

    Annoying to read stories of the Arsenal team being kept awake all night by mischievous scousers prior to the early kick off game at Anfield. This sort of behaviour used to be the preserve of the Italians & Turks. So sad that it's happening here. Throw in Agger 'doing' Jack in the early moments of a friendly International & my respect for Liverpool is fading fast. Anybody know why the refs continue to tolerate Skrtel's shirt pulling? A win tomorrow at Hull should clinch 4th spot. Latest odds: Bengal Tigers 4/1, draw 5/1, AFC 4/5. Top 4 odds: AFC 1/4, Everton 4/1.

  51. BADARSE

    Apr 19, 2014, 7:53 #49830

    Good morning gentlemen and ladies, and a special good morning to MRS. maguiresbridge, you too fella. Happy anniversary. Twenty three years, a lifetime in the blink of an eye. Happy weekend to your little family of four-good lad! My wife off to do her Parkrun this morning at 9am, if I can coax her down from the tree. Think she will as she sounded quite chirpy as she joined the 'dawn chorus' this morning, I got up and closed the window to shut out her chirruping, just going out to entice her down with a handful of birdseed. Good morrow to the questers who still slumber, some with 'thick' heads, many a missing boot, one smouldering tent from last night when an effigy of a Tatty Tater was pulled from the flames to receive-rather foolishly-an inebriated whack or two, and sparks flew. I espy one yonder with only the lower half of his body visible from a barrel, tethered horses fidgeting and snuffling with sounds like, 'wsssst looowrr'. All is calm, as every lull is before the storm. 'Gadzooks!', exclaims one emerging through his tent flap emptying a chewed-upon Ginsters from his boot, yet is still a smiling fellow. Forsooth the maiden Julesd does decry this merry band as court jesters, in all fair honesty nay to the damsel, she is but mistaken. Hark! Amongst the softly whetting of blades I hear lyres being tuned, and quiet singing from the Hut of Green, another day begins. More updates later, gentlefolk. Good old Arsenal.

  52. Ron

    Apr 18, 2014, 22:35 #49829

    MG - Beautiful matey. Congratulations. Treasure her. Enjoy your time together and make it feel like it is only 3. Regards to both you and Mrs MG.

  53. Gaz

    Apr 18, 2014, 22:32 #49828

    @maguiresbridge gooner: happy anniversary mate!...

  54. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 18, 2014, 21:59 #49827

    Wasn't going to mention it but as our better haves have been brought up on a couple of occasions this evening and indeed have taken to posting (and welcome they are too)i might as well, my own better half and i are celebrating our wedding anniversary tonight i must have been doing something right after 23 years of marriage for her to still put up with me, although there will be nothing fancy apart for a few beers and a bottle of wine (it is 23 after all not 3) and we'll be leaving our two young guns at home. And hopefully the big guns will give us something to celebrate again on Sunday.

  55. jjetplane

    Apr 18, 2014, 20:37 #49826

    MGUIRE your 'heaven - nothing really happens' post was my most memorable of the day! I have a once removed 'wild west' background of Mayo and Kerry so good luck to you and the other superstars on here. Favourite joke of the week was BADARSE's play on the 'great booing mystery'. Some things will remain as such. Special happy easter to Kevin.

  56. BADARSE

    Apr 18, 2014, 20:34 #49825

    Nay, I shall not court such a claim, mad sir, never. Hark! I hear cries of 'My liege', it is for the 'man of digits', he who is west of the lower. Lead on my noble sir, 'pon your valiant steed, to win in battle your spuds. We truly head north, the banner of the hedgehog now rampant-carried aloft by this raucous group, ever being joined by troupes of players. Old Indian proverb quoths, 'He who rides a Hull Tiger may never dismount', so to the grave we ride, meeting in mortal combat in the dark lands of the north, and returning to do battle once more on that rich and hallowed turf. Oh this Sceptered Isle, this other Eden, we shall turn the green field red. What a merry band presented, pennants a-flutter, lyres a-strumming, songs a-singing, knee a-knocking. Onwards to meet with their destiny. Past glorious killing fields of yesteryear. Rain-sodden, torn and bedraggled old banners like the Kentucky Fried of the chicken. They leave as mortals and return as gods. Onwards gentle folk, many Reeves of shires follow on, to the death, cry god for Larry, Curley and Saint Mo. It's dark now so come in from the garden this minute Ron!

  57. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 18, 2014, 19:59 #49824

    Westie, Ron, and others, we all might have different opinions on here, but nobody can say we don't have anything in common and i'm not talking about Arsenal the both of you have just described my child hood and i'm from N,Ireland, similar game played in our housing estate although it wasn't called hares and hounds and the rules were you weren't allowed out of the estate and had to stay in gardens imagine what trouble that would cause today with the residents and their preened lawns and hedges? First day at the big school getting stabbed with my new pencil that was sharpened to a point, by the big boy who took it off me because i wouldn't give it up and one of the teachers having to prise the pointed lead out of my leg, no complaints of bullying in those days, he got his comeuppance though, those were the days.

  58. BADARSE

    Apr 18, 2014, 19:09 #49823

    Gaz, that happens a lot. I chat away and suddenly find people have fallen asleep, some standing up! Yeah, it would be interesting for all of the gang to meet up at 'your's', ha ha. Ron one side, getting excited talking about Abe, westlower in his silks and riding breeches at odds, (sorry about that one), with many. jjetplane looking through a glass onion. radfordkennedy with his rioja-guitar, rioja or guitar, mmm, riojs, rioja or guitar?, decision. chris and SGRB entertaing all with a well-rehearsed Laurel and Hardy act. GoonerRon doing his level best to talk DW Thomas down from the ledge. JAMIE miming for the afternoon, not upsetting anyone for the first time. maguiresbridge proving he can down four pints of Murphy's off the reel whilst doing the Riverdance. Green Hut leading us all in a community sing song, Julesd trying to attract hedgehogs with her 'KEEE-OWN!' warcry. Yeah it would do for me, ha ha.

  59. Westlower

    Apr 18, 2014, 18:46 #49822

    @Badarse, Julesd thinks we're all mad on this site. Whatever gave her that idea? Now where did she hide the hedgehog food? Saddle the horses for tonight we ride towards Hull for the Battle of the Forth!

  60. Gaz

    Apr 18, 2014, 17:59 #49821

    @BADARSE: whilst you're chatting away doing the gardening I'd be sitting there in the sun with my headphones on anyway. I wouldn't hear a thing...works on the missus... :-)

  61. BADARSE

    Apr 18, 2014, 17:23 #49820

    Good evening gentlemen and ladies, back from my picnic and walk in the sun. I return and find jjetplane doing a King Canute. I see you dude, trousers rolled up, knotted hankie on your head with a snout hanging limply from your lips as you talk to the waves and curse at the seagulls. You know Ron and 24601, our childhoods, all different were very similar, and the damning conclusion is that they have gone! Everything is analysed and talked through over and over again, (this site for instance), and people try to be innovative and imaginative. Then with the sense of productivity, (since the mid-70's?), things, places, people and operations have taken on a life of their own. It really is a runaway train. I worked with an ex-boxer in a former life, a star. He had a peculiarity. In the shared kitchenette he would espy an open packet of biscuits, nick one in the firm belief that it wouldn't be noted. A while later back in the kitchen he would reason another wouldn't be missed. Then a third visit and so on. Each time it was just a biscuit, hardly making any difference to what was in the packet when he went back into the kitchen each time. Suddenly there were only a couple left. The owner would know it was him, despite his claims to the contrary, he'd been alone or the other person was extremely trustworthy. A process of simple elimination. He seemed not to understand, certainly he never learned or changed his ways. It's a little of this going on with society. A slight change, an amendment, another little tweak, push it a bit, a new person cranks it up, another step, then you stop and see how far you have drifted off course. (Did you know if blindfolded an individual will develop a bias to the right and eventually make a complete circle? It must be in the blueprint of the genes to help to avoid being lost, always circling and finding your way back home -actually if you see someone aimlessly wandering around in circles with eyes and mouth wide open, staring at the sky it is probably a Tiny Tott, so don't be confused by this manifestation).This is occurring everywhere. The kids are still kids, parents are confused and being guided down a narrow pathway, the result is evident. All are cannon-fodder for marketing men and big business. In '1984' people are kept in fear by Big Brother, they exist in a state of an imaginary, but real to them, perpetual war. It's happening in our society in a far more subtle fashion than even the nightmare scenarios that Mr. Blair imagined. The only thing that separates us from the kids aforementioned is the emphasis those cultures place on family values, but only for a short while yet. We are fast becoming a world of 'same', and money, technology and loss of identity will see to that. Oh Susej, am going to climb into the cupboard for a while.

  62. jjetplane

    Apr 18, 2014, 16:03 #49819

    Ha ha Just saw JW splashed all over Pepsi tins! Must have the same agents as DBecks. As the season is turning out a bit pants for him - think we can see an Armani shoot next. This is why Arsenal are the perfect team for the likes of 'fiery little' Jack. The game is no more than a 'passing spectacle' and everything just melds into one great big corporate love-in. RON Dead right on the Europa call. Could even be something that could be won. Bit like the FA Cup. All getting a bit biblical on here with all this Garden chat so think I will go sit on the beach (front garden) and work over how we were dumped out the league cup and had three players sent off! Still, two more wins and we are championes ..... BADARSE uncanny stuff - just had some spuds (leftover fried). I can hear the waves lapping. Happy Easter!

  63. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Apr 18, 2014, 15:07 #49818

    Saw the youth cup game. The Chelsea boys were bigger and stronger and played a well co ordinated machine like game. Our smaller chaps used their close control abilities to try and stay in the game against greater odds. Sound familiar? We can look forward to years of being Chelsea's b-hutches if that man stays at what passes for the helm. His "theories" about football pervade the whole club and are 10 years out of date. The sense of depression at the League game against West Ham was palpable. This league, once again, if you look at the points gap, was eminently winnable, but Mr Wenger does not want to win. He will not do what is necessary to win. He rides his luck, and stays on, and on.

  64. Ron

    Apr 18, 2014, 14:32 #49817

    Great stuff Westie - Ha. Yes, playing with the big 'kids' was physical wasn't it. I recall a mate of mine, Terry, losing his rag with one and lobbing half a house brick at a youth about 4 years older and cutting his back and shoulder really badly. He beat my mate up and then they both carried on the game!You d have fitted in well round my Crescent mate. When it was too dark to play football, we used to play 'tracking'. Hares and hounds. The geographical limits were about 2-3 miles circular from where we lived. Loved that. The parents wd start to emerge at the front doors and gates to houses 'calling us in' about 10 in school hols feigning their annoyance that we hadn't been seen since 'tea time' ie about 4.30 - 5.00 o clock! Great days. We used to swim a lot as well. In the river as often as not unless we got in the local lido free, over the fence.

  65. Westlower

    Apr 18, 2014, 13:59 #49816

    @Ron, Always remember my first day at senior school as the older boys pinched our fags under threat of giving us newcomers a good hiding. What fags they didn't get the teachers took for themselves. Plenty of outdoor sports in those days. As long as it was daylight we'd be playing football. Some games lasted the whole day, 15 a side at times as people went home for meals before returning to continue the game. We didn't own a telly until I was 14 so we found our own entertainment. Fishing & cricket in the summer, football & darts in the winter. I was a regular in the local pub's dart team at 17 years old, winning 3 trophies + runner up in the counties individual championship. I was the youngest ever player in the News of the World qualifying tournament. When I wasn't playing darts I used to chalk up the scores for the adults. At football & cricket we always competed with boys older than ourselves and we got used to regular beatings, both physical & score-wise. Different world, 'it's all over now, baby blue.'

  66. Ron

    Apr 18, 2014, 13:23 #49815

    Westie - Yes mate. Not surprised. Theres a philosophy in schools you know that 'competition' is detrimental to development. I know of certain schools a few years back where teams aren't allowed to win greater than 3-0 v other schools as the loss is believed to be injurious. Can you believe that? I know of another school who have recently beaten a newly opened school 67 - 0 at rugger. The losing school have taken it to the ed authority and made a big stink of it. Harmful apparently! Recall my first inter school match mate. I was 9. We lost 15 - 1, but i scored our goal so i was cock a hoop! We went 2 years before we won and what a feeling when we did. Society s gone mad mate hasn't it.Is it the 'new' parenting?A good number of parents live their lives by what their kids do or by what they want other parents to think they do vis their kids.Sad. As for you and me, was it similar? First day at High school was 'c mon get your arse out, get on yer push bike and get to the 'big' school and try yer hardest and don't bring trouble home or you ll be belted'Ha. The 'Times they are a changin' ......

  67. Westlower

    Apr 18, 2014, 12:53 #49814

    @Ron, A few years ago, along with a few other adults we were coaching 10-14 year olds on an outdoor astro turf pitch. Mostly 5 a side with an adult 'guesting'for each side. Then the heavens opened and it rained hard. Next thing you know mothers are driving up to rescue their offspring as they are getting wet. I stood there open mouthed, not knowing whether to laugh or cry. Where did it all go wrong? Health & Safety??

  68. Ron

    Apr 18, 2014, 12:47 #49813

    BADARSE - Ive read the Doris Kearns book on Abe. Moot point on where he was on slaves. Im with you. At heart he was, but he was a cute operator and needed to keep a young Republican party happy so played a middle line with it, plus tried to keep the South happy as his first priority was keeping the Union together. Wd never have become President had he have been an open abolitionist. What his real views were, nobody will ever really know as not near enough records. Fantastic man though and beat the wealth and influence of far more prominent men yet came from such modest stock himself. Not lecturing you. I wdt dream of that, but his period fascinates me.All good stuff.

  69. BADARSE

    Apr 18, 2014, 12:36 #49812

    Lincoln Ron? Interesting. You know he wasn't so averse to equal rights for black slaves? I read 'Lincoln' by Gore Vidal, and without doing the 'over the top' thing I think he was the most amazingly, intelligent, and wisest most perceptive of anyone ever from the USA. Actually that does sound a bit OTT, mind he was only just in front of Lisa Simpson in my opinion. Interesting point westlower about the youth game. The best whole is often made up with alternative dynamics as in a good marriage or a schizophrenic poster, no it's not! How do you BBQ salad? Off for a walk and a picnic with the family. Please behave whilst I am away children.

  70. Ron

    Apr 18, 2014, 12:22 #49811

    Westie - Its finding a school that plays footie mate. Not many play and those that do are nearly clueless. PE teachers are from a bygone age and aren't out there. Successive Govts have downgraded PE teaching to nothing and there's no career in it for them, so few do it. Ive got 2 Bulgarian lads in my 11 - 13 year old team now ( i do a bit of kid coaching still) for a limited time and a Hungarian kid. Only really played in the streets and on waste dumps at home so i gather but they're so adept, pitch wise and easy with a ball vis the english lads, its staggering. Ive seen this so often and we see it at the top level, but have to say it ie the European kids are clever and understand what to do on a pitch naturally, read a game. Makes me smile when you hear pundits wax lyrical about such as Pirlo. Thee guy was probably doing that at 7 or 8 years old. British players young and old are thick to be honest. Football doesn't come easy, but they ll run till they bleed! Theyve little interest in technique and tactics. If you go to a game just watch Wilshere and ignore the rest of a match. Blind alleys, misses the easy and obvious pass, tackles when he shdt, doesnt tackle when he shd, when he tackles he exposes himself to injury, holds the ball far too long, tries to be in a game when he shdt be, not in it and in position when he shd be. Im not saying i can coach like they do professionally mate, but Jack so needs correct coaching. I hope the lad goes to Spain or Italy and gets it. He could be a true great for England, but wont be by staying at Arsenal, in my view. Love the lad, but he deserves better. Him and young Barclay with top tuition could dominnate for years. And mate. Too much Greggs food for our kids. All far too fat as is the norm in Eng now.Footie is dying as a national sport here and nobody seems to care.

  71. Ron

    Apr 18, 2014, 12:00 #49810

    Ha ha . BADARSE - Great post. We d make a motley crew would us lot wdt we! No jews harp mate. Just bought a decent harmonica though. Struggling to use it with guitar though (badly). The great Dylan can rest easily as yet mate.Mind you, im playing 'Times they are a changin' pretty well now. Only needs 6 chords so that helps!. Can we talk about Abe Lincoln at the barbie though. What a guy. Fascinating what self drive and a will to self educate can do.

  72. Westlower

    Apr 18, 2014, 11:59 #49809

    Mark this post down for posterity. I entirely agree with Ron & Jeff about last nights Youth Cup game. Apparently the problem has been recognised with the appointment of a new Dutch coach for next season. My next comment is not intended to be racist but even at this age group it is noticeable there is a dearth of young white English kids playing football at this high standard. They can't all be playing computer games or taking 'selfies' all the time can they? Do they lose interest in playing football once they leave school?

  73. BADARSE

    Apr 18, 2014, 11:44 #49808

    I'd pop around Gaz but I'd probably drive you potty by going on about the macho-driven Kremlin and the ensuing prospects of loss of liberty to sovereign states. Then there is the progress of the questers still encamped on the other side of the Mersey and their progress. That new planet just discovered. Then the rubbish films I've seen recently with a Grandson who loves them. Then there is the tree! We could discuss Mikhail Bulgakov , as Ukraine is under threat, (I think he is the only famous Ukrainian writer, that is known to the west). In the Master and Margarita a woman says, 'Arsene Wenger is gone.' He replies, 'Don't be so certain.' She is troubled and says, 'He is dead!' He replies, 'No, Arsene Wenger is immortal!' Then I could sound you out about a ban on Coca Cola, the drink that kills people, but only in impoverished countries where they bottle it, (see website for Mark Thomas). Mind we could have a BBQ. Julesd could bring the hedgehog-I am a vegetarian so would just nibble on the hedge. radfordkennedy could bring his guitar, Ron his Jew's harp, and jjetplane could bring some Spuds to roast. What an altogether frightening prospect!

  74. Ron

    Apr 18, 2014, 11:44 #49807

    First brew of the morning coming up mate. C mon get y self out there. She expects, im betting!Its not so bad for me, my gorgeous lass lives miles away, so im unsupervised!!

  75. jeff wright

    Apr 18, 2014, 11:43 #49806

    MG, yes Wenger's sticky finger prints are all over everything now days at AFC,he's rebuilt the club in his own image. Wenger is a student of economics so it should not be any great surprise that the financial side of affairs plays a large part in his management. He is also a very nervous and fragile character who doesn't hold up well under pressure. His ludicrous ranting at the hapless 4th officials when things are not going well instead of shouting at our underperforming players doesn't do him any favors either. Despite what Gooner Ron claims Wenger would have been the most relieved man in England when Pulis turned over Martinez the other night with Wenger at that point in time needing Martinez to fail for himself to succeed. The Sunderland result at City was of course the major event of the evening , but was of no use to Wenger, who despite his claims back in December of 'do people think that I don't know if my squad is good enough to win the league ' when being urged to buy players in January was in reality now just once again fighting for 4th place. The answer to Arsene's question is,yes people did know that your squad was not good enough to win the league. And it never is. Now why is that? Well I don't buy the tiredness and injuries theory ,Ramsey was already morphing into the player we are used to seeing before he was injured and Walcott is always injured and his form is erratic anyway, so using their injuries for an excuse is not supported by the facts. A lack of strength in depth, no top mobile striker,or experienced top GK, then there are always too many kids learning tricks who get found out against top sides as AOC did at Chelsea recently , with the smallish physical composition of his squads also impacting on players physically over the course of a league campaign in the Prem. Plus outdated coaching and tactics are also some of the reasons why Wenger fails to compete realistically over the course of a season for the league title. He is now knocking on about Ozil being the player of the season next term - he's already predicted that Sanago will be the new Anelka and Diaby will be like signing a new player when he returns . You couldn't make it up.

  76. Gaz

    Apr 18, 2014, 11:18 #49805

    When you lot have finished in the garden how about popping round and doing mine? Was hoping it was going to piss down but sadly apart from a few clouds form it's looking unlikely! Means I'm gonna have to finally get out there!!!...

  77. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 18, 2014, 11:05 #49804

    jeff wright, yes remember when we had a youth team to be proud of also, when they were blooded used to beat top clubs in the domestic cup competitions (they were important then) like everything else that's got OGL's fingerprints on it, it's now gone down hill.

  78. BADARSE

    Apr 18, 2014, 10:46 #49803

    My wife is still up the tree! Only kidding though we did have a third day in the garden lopping bits off. I looked for tree fellers but only two were available and the tird wouldn't work alone, boom! boom! (Have to work on that one-always get a bit sillier during religious holidays). It's so true what you say about coaches and their differences-but so too the players. It's why some can and some can't take a penalty. The only way I knew was to drive forcefully for the line, to train and bleed. My eldest, my daughter was a very good middle distance runner and was approached by Thames Valley Harriers many moons ago. She declined. As a child and now as a woman she is very resilient, but one who ducked out of any competitive scenes. She quietly goes about achieving in her own way and actually resisted my coaching techniques at the time which were two-dimensional. Interesting topic. Things are often not what they appear and we all see a different world through our different eyes. Ron, come in and stop searching for hedgehogs, they're all congregating at Julesd's.

  79. Ron

    Apr 18, 2014, 10:17 #49802

    Morning BADARSE - Al great points from yourself and Westie too. Agree on all the stuff you both point out to a certain level only though, its a question of to what degree really isnt it. Ive always thought that the psychy pressures on Wengers teams are worse for our players, as hes never slow to point up that they exist, largely to cover his own back in my opinion. A Coach s job is to bolster morale and help over come what are often just states of mind in players. Footballers at all levels are so prone to slipping into negativity, its unreal. His persona (to me) has never, ever marked him out as a motivator in those hard times of travel and carrying knocks etc, more the type who gives a player his excuse in advance.It has to be counter productive across a season and with todays pampered lads, they ll not turn down an inbuilt reason, offered on a plate, not to put it all in especially. This is where Mourinho is so strong and why Wenger for me has never and will never be a truly great Coach. The great Coaches are seen to be doing something to alleviate the pressures you speak of, the players know such guys are doing something and recognise it.It buoys them. Wenger doesnt. He, for so many years has wallowed in his own perceptions of how under strain he is and how tough it is. It always seems im knocking old Westie. Im not. We disagree a lot but he makes great points as do you and so many others. In truth you know, there are many of us who agree on more stuff than we recognise really. We just focus on different points to variable extents don't we.All good stuff though. Time for me to hit the back garden. Its a mess!

  80. Westlower

    Apr 18, 2014, 10:05 #49801

    @Gaz While totally agreeing Athletico Madrid have done fantastically well they are not the 'small' club that you paint them. Although their ground only holds 54,960 they have 65,000 season ticket holders, one of the biggest in the world of football. Historically they have been La Liga Champions 9 times, ECWC winners, CL runners up, Europa League winners in 2010 & 12, UEFA Super Cup winnners 2010 & 12. Almost Arsenal like in their honours. Barcelona's regression under new management has further helped Athletico's cause. Be interesting to see how they cope when moving to a new 70,000 seater stadium next year.

  81. BADARSE

    Apr 18, 2014, 9:57 #49800

    Ron you list valid points of course but I am more in line with westlower's take on things. Trying to dissect the minutiae of what makes for the best manager, or a championship team, or the reverse, what is the reason why this team has imploded or lost their confidence, are so nebulous. The best we as observers with a little background knowledge can do, is offer the broadest of suggestions. I know you are not of the persuasion that travel impacts players, or it's effects 'can', (not necessarily does, but can), influence the outcome of matches. So too with extra matches played. I for one am an adherent of this view. Given the choice between playing at home, having a week training then making a short trip across town as WHU did is far preferable to our circumstances. Playing a high profile game with psychological pressures and a Cup Final place at stake. Extra time, anguish of penalties, then first back in the saddle to entertain WHU. This in a match that WHU could enjoy, with little to prove or play for by comparison. An away trip in the CL then an away trip up the road to take on someone like Stoke or Sunderland, whilst they have just trained easily all week, is/or can be, a distinct disadvantage. Losing Jack, having him back and settling back in slowly whilst losing Aaron, then losing Jack all over again has affected us greatly. Whether it registered a bigger impact than other clubs injury problems, indeed whether it should have done, squad size, cover in certain positions, crumby medical staff, overplaying etc are separate issues. The prime consideration is the effect it had on AFC. Good posts though, both of you.

  82. Ron

    Apr 18, 2014, 9:48 #49799

    Hi Jeff - Yes, i watched it too. I thought the same. I appreciate that young players will develop physically, but you're totally right. The Chelsea lads were bigger fitter and so much too strong for ours in nearly all of the challenges. Tactically, it was a mismatch wasn't it.

  83. jeff wright

    Apr 18, 2014, 9:39 #49798

    Morning Ron, the Youth Cup semi at the Emirates last that our side lost to the Chelsea one was like watching our first team v their one ,with us getting out muscled by stronger players but who possessed the same level of technique and looked to be better coached.The paassing moves that our ones made deja vu what we see from Santi and co in the Prem were being read like a book by the Chelsea kids and easily snuffed out. This continental style approach to coaching and squad building does not work in the British game and results over the past 9 seasons says so. Wenger though will insist on carrying on with it the glum looks on the faces of the crowd mirrored what we see so often at first team games.

  84. Ron

    Apr 18, 2014, 8:59 #49797

    Morning guys. Westie - in my view there are only 2 genuinely 'world class' players in that PL. Ya Ya Toure and Kun Aguero. YT has been injured since Jan despite playing most games though hes missed quite a few too. KA has been out for 7 weeks. Despite the riches, Clubs like City still depend a lot on certain players who make a difference and change games. When they're gone, they're very much missed. City's form has ebbed as these two have suffered.This happens at whatever level of footie a team is in. Your theory of Cup games choking off progress in the major tournies is diluted by the fact that many of the mainstay players dont play in them anyway plus its a hymmn thats only ever really sung by Wenger and those such as your good self who buy into his excuses. The top sides 'go through the motions' in the LC anyway (the FAC to an extent too) and its not until they stumble into the Qtr/semi finals when they tend to crank up the effort levels. Much luck is needed to win any tourny, inc the title. Youre right there, but your refrain of 'if such and such was fit' at Arsenal is tiresome with all due respect mate. Wenger has accumulated a physically weak squad for years and many of his players are inherently injury prone and been shown to be for 4/5 years because of it. Youre whistling in the wind hoping for change there.

  85. Chris

    Apr 18, 2014, 8:26 #49796

    Gaz - Yes, it can happen. No one is denying that or claiming it's impossible. But really, those examples are very few and far between. Arsenal have been doing it on a lesser level more or less every season for years now. The fact is we've been achieving a consistent lesser over-achievement - 3rd/4th place. SGRB would prefer us to be struggling like Liverpool for years and then win the league (only it might be 1 in 24 for them, not 1 in 9....) - that's his perogative. I agree it's looking increasingly like Wenger isn't going to pull major over-achievement out of, the bag, but I hope he'll spend big so the task isn't so big. There's absolutely no guarantee that any new manager would be able to spend as big as needed or over-achieve by as much as needed, but maybe the right man could...

  86. Gaz

    Apr 18, 2014, 8:05 #49795

    @westlower: how do you explain Atletico Madrid then? Lose all their best players every season, heavily in debt, and up against Clubs with far more financial muscle than them. Yet not only are they leading Barca and Madrid but they're into the semi finals of the champions league too. Oh, and incidentally, when they beat Barca in the last round their two best players were missing...

  87. Westlower

    Apr 18, 2014, 7:47 #49794

    Man City's involvement to the latter stages of the domestic cup competitions + reaching the knock out stage of CL is now coming back to hurt them. How else do you explain their loss of form for a club with limitless resources? Clueless old manager? Crap signings? Injuries? I previously reasoned how necessary it is to be eliminated early from our domestic cups to give every chance of being competitive for the two major prizes of CL & PL. Who knows if our extended FA Cup run has influenced us falling out of the title challenge? It certainly helped Liverpool's PL title bid by getting knocked out of FA Cup by AFC. If the talented Man City squad can't cope with firing on all fronts, who can? It wasn't that long ago the media were talking up Man City winning all four competitions. Their firepower with four world class strikers is still not enough to overcome fatigue/pressure in the later stages of the season. Had they been knocked out of the LC early, they may well have had the PL title wrapped up by now? Chelsea's three main strikers have made their manager despair with their lack of goals but despite this they have a real chance of a CL & PL double. My summary is that any club, regardless of resources, needs a massive slice of luck with long term injuries & a relatively clear fixture list from January to May. AFC have not enjoyed such luck. Imagine a season where Walcott, Ramsey, Ox & Wilshire were available most weeks.

  88. BADARSE

    Apr 18, 2014, 6:43 #49793

    Good morning gentlemen and ladies. Being Easter what are the chances we will see Arsenal putting more crosses into the danger area? None I expect. Freddie's Armani pants have you also got a day off today? You really should ease up on the, 'Dear Lottery winner...'begging letters. Chill a bit man. DW Thomas this is not meant to sound patronising but I genuinely feel for you. You clearly are an Arsenal man and visibly in some pain. Why am I not sharing that pain? Easy answer for those too ready to dismiss and pigeon-hole individuals, it's because I am not a pragmatist, or don't love Arsenal enough, am blinkered, foolishly loyal to one man because of past glories, stupid, Arsene's brother in law, a paid employee of AFC, or perm any other facile and simplistic conclusion which keeps me in a box marked, 'Do not open'. I am none of those. If any clowns believe I am, it's a failure on their part, not mine. To coin the Bard, 'If you prick me, do I not bleed?' My anguish mirrors and rivals any, when we lose. So what is it? It's happening to me and I can't adequately describe it, yet I have a wheelbarrow full of words. Any answer I give will be challenged because that is what human nature does, it will be seen as a criticism of those who aren't like me and there will be an urgent desire to push my attitude away. What may be the answer in part is my wide-angled vision of life. Look out an avalanche of protests are forming, red in the face and blustering, 'How dare he suggest he is better than me? Who says he has a clearer view of life?' I did say in part. It is all about perceptions, expectations and personal characteristics. Last point first, I do not readily insult. I tease non-stop in writing or speaking and it is a facet of my nature. Never vicious unless the gloves come off, and my words can be quite forceful weapons. Yet people who have a natural inclination to insult will find lots of stones lying around to hurl at Arsene, me or the bloke next door. It's what they do, almost an illness, certainly a debilitating rut to be stuck in. That doesn't help. Perceptions? Well that is obvious. Glass half empty says it all. Now this isn't to dismiss valid considerations and conclusions of the way AFC should go. I admire and give full rein to those concepts couched, and support to those individuals. It's the mindless mob-rule, ignoring, bending or reshaping the facts or situation that I shake my head at. Of course every known situation has a number of outlooks so it does confuse outcomes amongst a group. Expectations? Well we live in a high-pressure society. Everywhere you look we are media led, by pundits, media, 'rags' and any phone in radio. The whole environment is geared to, 'Because you are worth it!' 'It's my dream!' 'Once in a lifetime!', and all other related drivel. We hope, then putting in place the cash available, (whilst criticising all to do with money), we expect. When things don't meet our expectations we rail and demand. Failure to deliver and the vitriol seeps out. Others around echo those same feelings so therefore it must be right. Those who stand against are going into that box. These are just a few words which will antagonise and fall on deaf ears, but do you know what? I am supremely hopeful of winning the Cup, and desperate to hit a perceived target of making fourth place. Desperate in the sense of achieving because I am an Arsenal fan, nothing more. They have just discovered the planet which most resembles Planet Earth with the likely prospect of water and perhaps life. It's 500 light years away, but there is every chance similar angst is being displayed by their fans living there too. Good old Arsenal.

  89. DW Thomas

    Apr 18, 2014, 1:07 #49792

    You can't have the cake AND eat the cake. That's the argument about Liverpool's advantage because they aren't in the CL. AKBs have learned from the best snake oil salesmen, Wenger and Gadzidis, how to excuse utter failure. I am so completely sick and tired of the bollocks that is the argument that we need 4th to attract players to compete in the CL. We don't buy world class, we sell them, for profit. Who can defend that? How? If at any time in the last 6 years, this is the year Arsenal fans should be completely fed up and demanding change and more from the club! But, no, too many suckle up to the AFC teat to swallow more of mamas milk! I just find myself not caring anymore as it only gets my hopes up to let them be deflated by serial losing. The major difference to me and many and the AKBs is that our expectations are much higher. 4th is just a fanciful fog to hide the real world. Winning is the measure of success, not failing anytime something is truly on the winning line! To be so close and knowing what it WOULD take to have a championship squad and not finishing the puzzle is the best piece of evidence to indict the manager and board. To me it's utter arrogance and idiocy to have relied on nobody of the required skill or talent to backup or supplant Giroud. Let alone the shallow depth of the squad at so many key positions. Despite all my pent up frustration and anger, I still wish the team to win each game and at the very least perform at a level expected of champions. Just no more excuses pretty please!

  90. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 18, 2014, 0:34 #49791

    Green Hut, i can see it now, in years to come when OGL is but a distant memory and the new manager/managers having won numerous trophy's cups and honors, and as his disciples and cult members pass over to the other side and arrive at the great Emirates in the sky or where ever it is his disciples and cult members go, there will be OGL sitting on a cloud rocking back and forth with long white hair and a white full length puffa jacket they will have to wait while he finishes arguing with some one in black who they think is the devil himself but it's not, it's always a fourth offical who he won't let in. He then turns to them and says ah more of my cult members, disciples, and apologists he then asks are you all sure you stood by me when i was being driven out of my club by that other lot even though they were right? with a clear conscience and in unison they all shout and chant yes my lord we did, we always supported you no matter about the club, we never let you down, (the majority saying to themselves even though we knew you were past it)very well you can enter my new Emirates that i designed and built myself without any help from any body. And as a special treat for those who stood by me and defended me the most and always had the best excuses especially on those wretched blogs i'm letting you in first so come to the front of the queue there's first class seats up front.

  91. BADARSE

    Apr 17, 2014, 23:45 #49790

    Freddie's Armani pants you are probably right fella. In fact this is my busy period so it doesn't auger well for when things are slack.

  92. Mike

    Apr 17, 2014, 23:40 #49789

    Methinks Man city might be pulled into this battle for fourth place - I suspect they are imploding as well

  93. Gaz

    Apr 17, 2014, 22:28 #49788

    Having just seen Wengers latest interview it's obvious he really believes the only thing that's stopped us doing well this season is injuries. Nothing to do with his decision to go into a season with three really average/poor strikers. One other thing he said that irritates me even more than all the other irritating things he says (and he keeps saying it) is that he always shows complete dedication to the cause. Two things. Firstly I doubt any manager-however crap they are-gives less than total dedication. And secondly on £7.5m a year I'd expect nothing ****ing less...

  94. BADARSE

    Apr 17, 2014, 21:51 #49787

    DANDY MODD, good response, very dignified. No podium, am still on the hill, but there is lots of room up here for you, and you are very welcome to sit and watch the world spinning around with me. Do you have big feet?

  95. Green Hut

    Apr 17, 2014, 21:40 #49786

    Chris- No mate I don't post but I do read it. Spectrum seems to be a reasonable chap.

  96. Freddie's Armani pants

    Apr 17, 2014, 21:33 #49785

    BADARSE- you have way too much time on your hands dude.

  97. Any Old Iron

    Apr 17, 2014, 21:13 #49784

    Mourinho rightly pointed out at Xmas, when Liverpool led the table for 24 hours that they would have the advantage of not playing in the Champions League. Mourinho would also admit that it's infinitely harder to win the EPL. His preference though seems to be the Champions League which eluded him at Chelsea before. At least he knows what he wants and does what he can to achieve it. I wouldn't count Chelsea out of a double. I'd prefer a Pool title of course. I'm not a bitter fan though. I want my team to win trophies, not damn others for their successes.

  98. Ron

    Apr 17, 2014, 21:06 #49783

    Westie - Can see where youre coming from but the other more positive approach for a Club like ours is that the Europa League offers 2 things at least 1. It may engender a winning in europe feeling and mentality and 2. Keeps the team in 5th in the euro spotlight when not in the CL. Im just saying that being in the CL is always going to be such a futile exercise for Arsenal. Without a massive change of direction, winning it isn't even worth dreaming of. As things are with the Club, the Europa Lge is their true level. Its not a bad tournament. Its only here where its scoffed at yet this Country has a poorish record in it. Being in it wdt harm a PL campaign either in my view. We re not equipped and aren't likely to be so equipped to get close to the title. Arsenal aren't too good for the EL. Far bigger Clubs with far grander euro pedigree have seen fit to give it their all. I think its just knee jerk and 'following the crowd' to condemn it. We ll get Wengers 4th anyway so its academic really unless we hit a banana skin in the qualifier.

  99. Chris

    Apr 17, 2014, 21:06 #49782

    Green Hut - Do you post on Arsenal Truth? You'd be among friends with the crackpots there!

  100. Green Hut

    Apr 17, 2014, 20:57 #49781

    maguiresbridge- All bar the most fundamentalist Cult Of Wenger members know that his time should be coming to an end, but they don't want to look back in 10-20 years time and have to admit to themselves or others that they turned against The Great Man in his last few months, as they feel it will sully their memories of his early glory years and compromise their standing as an Arsenal fan (as clearly Arsene = Arsenal). So they continue to back their man to the hilt and leave the dirty work to others, in the knowledge that when he finally goes it won't have been 'by their hand'. Of course all the while their club drifts, treads water and stagnates, but always better that than a brave new world without their comfort blanket. BADARSE- Mandy Dodd now posts on Untold Arsenal, a remarkable site. She is certainly among friends there.

  101. jeff wright

    Apr 17, 2014, 20:54 #49780

    Even the chavs youth team look stronger than our one . They are beating us 3-1 on agg at the moment at the Emirates -game live on ITV4 with Jack doing some comments on it.

  102. Westlower

    Apr 17, 2014, 20:48 #49779

    @Steveio, If Man U miss out on 5th spot they be a very dangerous team next season with a fixture list devoid of European football. Either Everton or the Spuds will also be clear of Euro fixtures, but one of them will get the short straw of Thursday/Sunday games. I'm obviously hoping it won't be us in 5th place.

  103. Arsene's departure has the handbrake little-bit on?

    Apr 17, 2014, 20:48 #49778

    Let's just all hope that in the event we do win the cup Wenger does retire. If the unthinkable were to transpire then RESIGN would be more appropriate me thinks!

  104. David the Price is Ian Wright Wright right!

    Apr 17, 2014, 20:28 #49777

    @ Jeff Wright - Agree totally with your posts Jeff. Cynicism is rife, but when a Kings feast is promised for an equivalent ransom, you are vindicated. The Fa cup would be lovely. 4th spot I don't give a jot!

  105. Graham Simons

    Apr 17, 2014, 20:15 #49776

    Really don't know why some of you think winning the cup means Wenger will stay. He's 65 this year and had to put up with a heck of a lot of stick despite constant champions league qualifiacation while making a profit on transfers since 2005. Wembley would be the perfect way to sign off

  106. Dandy Modd

    Apr 17, 2014, 19:58 #49775

    Oh come on BadArse - reverse psychology indeed. In a circus sometimes a troupe of clowns is better than a solo clown. Perhaps like OGL, control, self absorption, and self indulgence are traits amply displayed by some., Please share your podium with Dandy. After all, Cathy calls!! So good evening Lads and fads...

  107. jeff wright

    Apr 17, 2014, 19:58 #49774

    Well GR, Everton did beat us at home and got a draw in the Prem against us as well,so that's 4 points that were not down to easy fixtures. Anyway you are jumping the gun here because unlike us they have not yet played United and City at Goodison or Southampton away, so I suggest that it's best to wait and see how those games transpire before jumping to conclusions.I seem to recall them having already beaten United away and Chelsea at home ,so the possibility of them getting some points from their remaining fixtures can't be ruled out on the criteria that you use to support your argument. Of course you are right regarding us picking up points against easy opponents apart from the win at home against Liverpool and the 3 draws against Chelsea,United and City at home 6 points from a poss 18 against top 3 opponents and just one from a poss 6 v Everton our rival for 4th place. I'm not convinced either that our remaining fixtures are that easy anyway ,they make look like it but this often turns out to be an illusion.

  108. Stevieo

    Apr 17, 2014, 19:57 #49773

    I’ve heard it all now. We have had the importance of finishing top 4 rammed down our throats year in and year out, so that Arsenal can attract the best players, and also have the revenues to pay these top players. That bit, I am fully on board with. But I thought the whole idea of attracting the top players that those outside the top 4 apparently can’t attract, was to allow us to compete for the title? But apparently, it doesn’t work like that. That’s because a team that finishes top 4, with the added CL games, cannot possibly compete for the league on a fair footing with a team that finished say, 7th in the previous season. So by that logic, as Liverpool will be playing CL next season, they can now forget competing for next season’s title. Next year’s favourites for the title must be Everton then I guess? The advantage of no CL fixtures now seems to outweigh the fact they’ll have no pull for top players and no CL revenue. As SGRB alluded to, get your excuses straight. Is finishing 4th advantageous, or is it now an hindrance? At least I now fully understand where this ‘Wenger is punching above his weight’ scenario painted every year comes from. The fact that we can finish above Everton and Spurs every year is an achievement, because they don’t have the distraction of CL football!

  109. Gaz

    Apr 17, 2014, 19:54 #49772

    Cheers Ron. Have a good one fella...

  110. Ron

    Apr 17, 2014, 19:33 #49771

    Chris - I'm with you there mate.A-B-C. Guys. Happy Easter to all of you. We often disagree and often have a pop at each other but its a good time not to do so right now, those with faith, those who aren't sure and those with none. Great week end to all of you and forever up the Gunners! Whatever s going on we re still the classiest Club in so many ways.

  111. GoonerRon

    Apr 17, 2014, 19:29 #49770

    All of this 'we needed Pulis to help us' and 'Everton have faltered to help us' - it just means absolutely nothing. Each team has 38 games and accumulates the maximum points they can. It could be argued our position at the top was, to an extent, down to the run of easier fixtures relative to the other teams. Everton's brief dalliance with sitting in 4th position was for much the same reason if you consider their remaining fixtures relative to ours.

  112. jeff wright

    Apr 17, 2014, 19:14 #49769

    The manager who wins the league Chris is always by default the best one in it that season, even if it's won on G/D . I agree about Chelsea if I had a choice I would prefer Liverpool ,but I don't have one. The damage is already done now with Chelsea anyway after they became the first London club to win Arsene's holy grail,so another Prem title is not going to make any difference , just another bitter pill to swallow although they still have some work to do to match our 13 unlucky for some ones. Nor will Rodgers beating Mourinho help to repair Wenger's damaged reputation of never having beaten the mouthy one. A sort of revenge by proxy . Wenger even needed Pulis to help him out what on earth is going on the world's gone mad! Rodgers winning the title though will again disprove the theory that the big spenders can't be beaten. This would be yet another nail in Arsene's coffin . I will guess that Wenger and Stan would prefer Chelsea to win it after their silly infamous 42m and a quid bid for Suarez .As Mr Henry put it :what are they smoking! . I expect that Maureen would have taken having to beat Liverpool at Anfield to win the Prem if offered it at the start of the season. The Portugeezer has not always had good fortune at Anfield though so he will be hoping that Norwich can do him a favor to help make life a bit easier. Liverpool have not always looked as good away from home and the Palace game after the Chelsea one could also be tricky. Let's put it this way I won't be backing the scousers at odds on to win the Title.They have Henderson suspended for 3 games and injury problems as well. They have a chance but it remains to be seen if they can hold their nerve over these final few games. They have certainly had the rub of the green lately but so did City for awhile and luck is a transient thing,here one day and gone the next. Rather like a Wenger title challenge.

  113. BADARSE

    Apr 17, 2014, 18:27 #49768

    News that the team sheet of Cardiff to Crystal Palace before the game and before officially disclosed has caused a furore. Pulis was aware and though it will never happen, Cardiff want a rematch rather than let the 0-3 defeat they suffered, stand. Dodgy old Pulis.

  114. BADARSE

    Apr 17, 2014, 18:11 #49767

    jjetplane, funny how we see the same thing but have different views of it. I find this DANDY MODD not to my liking. I remember another poster Mandy Dodd. Yes she was like myself, in wanting Arsene Wenger to remain in charge at that time. She no longer posts. Do we know why? Just given up on the majority who do not share her outlook, got better things to do with her time, or something more serious? My only interest in DANDY MODD is that I am still short of clowns.

  115. Chopper Harris

    Apr 17, 2014, 18:06 #49766

    You wot you wot you wot you wot you wot.

  116. Chris

    Apr 17, 2014, 17:29 #49765

    Jeff - I'ts not always the case that the best manager wins the league, although i accept it would be hard (but not impossible)and a little churlish to argue otherwise if Rodger's / Liverpool win it. let's just hope they do because the last thing any sane Arsenal fan wants is Chelsea / Mourinho to win it, surely? Anyone But Chelsea.

  117. jjetplane

    Apr 17, 2014, 16:32 #49764

    DANDY MODD Your presence is most required as is your imperious support of our humble but strong leader. Why only now all over that much undervalued universe called meeedeeeah we have our most humble leader saying 'the job is not done yet but the spirit as you can see is still strong and has been since the beginning of the season. If not for the injuries I believe not only would we have beaten Liverpool again and again, but we would still be top. I disagree with some people who do not really understand football in the way I (most humble) do. No - I can only say that Diaby is almost in full training but he has been very busy with some of those less fortunate by spending time with children in deprived parts of Europe and indeeeed Africa and I hope see the children one day in the CL. But we have a great fight on still and thanks to our great support who should not be booing players at Wembley. I understand their frustration ..... ' Welcome home/Welcome/Come on in/And press the keys ......

  118. jeff wright

    Apr 17, 2014, 15:27 #49763

    WENGER OUT, the point was about who has been the best manager in the league this season and that will be decided on the points won at the end of itso Rodgers will win that argument. That is the rules of engagement that are used to gauge this by. Wenger's obviously been the more successful over a period of time, although he has had a big advantage in that due to the length of time that he has been in his job. Rodgers has won nothing yet though this term and may not do so, but the same can be said for Wenger, although he looks the most likely to win a trophy ,his first real one for 9 years, with just the one game to play against Hull. Rodgers on the other hand faces a trickier assignment with Pulias away looking to do a scouse killing double whammy and Jose to play at home in the mix.

  119. Dandy Modd

    Apr 17, 2014, 15:03 #49762

    At last online Gooner has begun to resembles the site I loved and cared for the most. Of course Arsene's demise had been greatly exaggerated, if not anticipated by all of us. I am prepared to return to this site in earnest, and impart my unequivocal wisdom in all things Arsene. Another win for us, or further dropped points by Everton and my urge to return will become irresistible. Like Arsene I'm not impervious to the prevailing mood around moi. What would go a long way to my much needed return, in order to recreate some semblance of balance is to receive some approval from some fellow posters. So sing if your winning!! Let Dandy no, yes, or Know?!

  120. Ron

    Apr 17, 2014, 14:14 #49761

    Westie - Great post. perhaps the best youve made. Its why i blather on about the evils of such as SKY and wont pay for it in my home. For all its wall to wall coverage, the daily papers on line (i wont buy them either!!) informs just as well on matters football plus what you see for yourself of course. Media, equally as much as new money has ruined football. Its the latter that has fueled the media frenzy though isnt it, so i suppose thats the media s mitigation.

  121. BADARSE

    Apr 17, 2014, 13:46 #49760

    Thanks for the last post westlower, it was akin to reason and rationality in a jar. "Update from the questers, they are encamped in the foothills preparing to cross the Mersey, those in need of, are equipped with Pacemakers, one or two believe like their leader they can walk across the river. There is much fol-de-roling, fires like their passions burn brightly, many with effigies of figurines in Tatty 'Tater shirts. The carousing is likely to go on well into the night, mere mortal man can only imagine the outcome and celebrations if The Holy Grail is secured. There is a proclamation that perhaps a silhouette of a chalice will adorn the house of red as this season becomes the next."

  122. jjetplane

    Apr 17, 2014, 13:24 #49759

    Now who's being upsetting WESTIE. Don't you know he hasn't the time for this posting lark but do expect lots of posts before October if 'this team just goes on a winning run' when half the world is asleep. Giroud was compared to GOD10 after that 'mentally strong' victory and GOTS over 'tough opponents'. We only have to look at Martinez, Pulis and Wenger to see who is the odd one out. Two of them should be very proud of themselves. Whereas Waitrose Wenger is what it says on the tin - pass sell-by.

  123. Westlower

    Apr 17, 2014, 13:15 #49758

    @SGRB, Very few issues have definitive answers. Perspective & compromise is usually the order of the day. I was simply trying to highlight that Martinez & Everton were the flavour of the month until last nights defeat. He's no better or worse a manager, nor his team any better or worse than 24 hours previous. Martinez is dead, long live Pulis! The media have brainwashed the fans to over react when their team lose. It generates new stories. Never have managers been under such scrutiny & pressure. It's why you need a strong board that can see the bigger picture. Recently Norwich reacted to fan pressure by sacking the manager with 6 games remaining. How stupid is that? Man U have stayed strong in the face of anti-Moyes noises. Fans have been conditioned into knee jerk reactions to anything that hasn't gone the teams way. You cannot have collective bruised egos influencing the running of a football club. Critics & fans alike have become too dogmatic. Every man and his dog thinks they know the answers to a clubs perceived problems. We have reached the stage where SKY pundits are pleading with players to dive when touched. It makes for more dramatic screening & talking points. Good sportsmanship is becoming a fading memory. I'm now off to Newmarket to spend the afternoon with professional winners and losers - nobody judges who's who, but there is sympathy for the losers and envy of the winners. Today's loser is tomorrows winner. The racing media have little or no influence on a punters mind as their judgement/opinion is no better or worse than anybody else. Hype is only the friend of the bookmaker. The football media's word has sadly become gospel.

  124. WENGER OUT

    Apr 17, 2014, 13:00 #49757

    I think it's all a bit pointless to discuss who is the best manager out of Rodgers/Martinez and Wenger. Rodgers has had an excellent season in the premier league and has no doubt had a better season than Wenger in that particular competition, the table doesn't lie. But to say that Rodgers is a better manager than Wenger because he's nearly won the premier league is a bit simplistic to say the least. Do I think that Wenger has the ability get any more out of the players than he currently does, clearly not, but comparisons of the type going on here are a bit futile and only serve to make our rivals more unbearably smug than they already are. If Rodgers sustains a period of success and goes on to build a new football dynasty at Liverpool, then without a doubt you can say he's a better manager than Wenger, but I think we should hold off that kind of talk for now. A better motivator perhaps, a better tactician almost certainly, but a bit soon to be saying a better overall manager. Now Ferguson was a better than any other manager of the premier league era, that is a statement of fact, not a premature assertion. The question we should be asking ourselves is not who is a better manager than Arsene, but which manager has the right set of abilities to transform our team into a winning one once again - Motivational skills and tactical awareness can only get you so far, attracting and keeping top class players will be just as important.

  125. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 17, 2014, 12:57 #49756

    Green hut, no doubt the lambs are already clearing their throat, and good point about in arsene we trust it's been missing in action ( sounds familiar )maybe it's had to move again? but as you say no doubt it will be back now there's a hint of a rose blooming with the pressure off.

  126. Gaz

    Apr 17, 2014, 12:43 #49755

    Great to see the lads finally putting in some decent performances now we're in the run in to fourth place. Remember saying exactly the same thing 12 months ago mind...

  127. Unchives

    Apr 17, 2014, 12:37 #49754

    The two best footballing sides are clearly Arsenal & Citeh. However its a results business as we all know, Arsenal are 4th best, however we have been by far the best team in the FA Cup and had the hardest fixtures. We deserve to win the FA Cup & claim 4th spot. We could have won the league if we had a top quality striker and one more centre back...This is Arsene Wenger's fault, he has failed to strengthen time and time again, despite this we will have had a very good season if we end up with the above. Whilst I would prefer Liverpool to win the league, its galling that we were some 8 points ahead of them at one stage and beat them twice out of three. Dont expect the several signings we need in the summer, we have missed our chance now anyway. I would not trust Wenger to spend the money now, so please Arsene take the tributes, take the lift upstairs or walk through that door, its wide open!

  128. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Apr 17, 2014, 12:06 #49753

    Strange that no one either on here, or in the meeeeeeeeeeeedja, seem to mention Citeh's AFC-style collapse in the last few weeks. I guess that for them, the criteria is different? Surely not with all that "world class" talent that they have. For what it's worth my opinion for their fall is the injury to Villa, and the hapless Demarchelis.

  129. jeff wright

    Apr 17, 2014, 11:38 #49752

    The only barometer to measure whether or not Rodgers has been more successful,or better ,than Wenger is league results ,it really is that simple. So there is actually no argument here because Rodgers wins it hands down. Cup results or the odd league one are irrelevant to this Southampton won at Anfield, but Liverpool did like wise at their place and this doesn't mean that the Saints manager has been equal to Rodgers this season. Regarding Everton the facts are that Wenger needed help from neanderthal man Pulis to make 4th place more certain and it's still not done and dusted even now. Given the position that Wenger was in prior to Xmas with some on here ( morning Westie) convinced that he was going to win the Prem he should never be in this position anyway,so why some are gloating about the Everton result is yet another sign of the delusional thought processes, or non rather, of the AKB at graft. I think it will go to the last game to decide who gets 4th place . Hull away could easily be a draw with the FAC on both sets of players minds and neither one wanting to lose . I have no confidence in United getting anything at Everton they looked like a shattered side after the loss to BM and have nothing to play for with some of them knowing they are out the door in the summer. I still think that Wenger will just scrape 4th spot again but that is nothing to be proud about considering that he had a great chance to do better than this and failed to do so. There is also the fact that Wenger will have to win a qualifier at a difficult time this season to get into the group stages of the CL . We know he has always won these ties,but a couple of them were close run things and if you keep driving the Chevy to the levy sooner or later you will find it dry ...

  130. BADARSE

    Apr 17, 2014, 11:36 #49751

    SGRB that's not goading. If you think it is then walk a while in my shoes,( at the back of the questers of course). This isn't goading either. Life is pretend chum and as JL said, 'whatever gets you through the night'. Well life is the night and we all choose our paths to negotiate and navigate it, everyone carrying bags of marbles and mumbles around in their heads. Ron berated Rodgers at the season's start-and now? Martinez is a deity-and now? We all have rejected Fellaini and Laudrup, Moyes has been hot, cold, hot and will perhaps finish up tepid. Giroud has been slated and decried as a carthorse. westlower is the only one capable of determining horseflesh but I will say this, a man who can pull a ball out of the air as he did Tuesday is a very special kind of thoroughbred. I touched on this ability prior to the Wet Cod game. Everything is a form of reductionism, (got that tpm?), and to just focus on the Go/Stay discussion is daft. I find my way through this with my seemingly obscure ramblings, though they do have an intelligent strain to them, and if not accepted at least may entertain. Any dry comments should be directed to my agent or manager. Glad Barney is around and still cutting it westlower. "News from the questers is that they have encountered a few 'Blue Meanies', who refuse to say 'Wack', whilst El Cid refuses to say 'Ni', ( though does insist on saying 'Neigh'.) The Hedgehog still held high flutters majestically."

  131. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 17, 2014, 11:14 #49750

    Quite right goading us naysayers, Westlower. How fully vindicated you must feel.

  132. Westlower

    Apr 17, 2014, 11:05 #49749

    Come on hands up, who forgot to tell Everton that there's no pressure playing for 4th spot? Come on don't be shy we know who you are. Hey you ducking down at the back, yes you with the shiny red nose wiping away the tears of a clown. Does last nights result cast a doubt on Martinez taking over from the old man? It appeared to be a trademark Wenger defeat to my eyes. Martinez lost his way already, surely not. Go sign another loanee Roberto and all will be well. Please stop crying Mr Kenwright, the Europa league was made for the Blues. Hello, Tony Pulis. What are your plans for next season my old potteries china? Now you have proved your credentials of improving a London club it'll be a doddle for you at the Emirates with our enviable self sustaining resources. No more buying on the cheap for you Mr Pulis, success beckons, to dare is to do, the game is all about glory! @Badarse, I passed Barney Curley as I was leaving Newmarket yesterday. My God is alive & well, doubtless on his way to Waitrose to do his shopping.

  133. jjetplane

    Apr 17, 2014, 10:59 #49748

    'It's so easy/like taking candy..' Now Everton do not know how to play the virtual trophy game (the abstraction is lost on them as it is a French perception) the run-in for fourth is a bit of a bore with no means of motivation for Wenger's valiant oldsters. Still, there is the ho-hum trip to play HULL at wembley which is the nearest thing to football reality at the top table Arsenal will experience. Should be fun listening to the new spin which will have a post-season feel as we look forward to next season and another 'crack at the CL' and maybe just one or two going and another German coming 'who is a bit raw yes, but then look how Sanogo has come on. These players play with no fear ......' ..... 'wake me up/before you go go/....'

  134. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 17, 2014, 10:33 #49747

    Chris - give me 1 title over 9 years or 900 years of 4th place. And 'supporting your team' is what it should be all about, but unfortunately it's not anymore, is it. Like Tony Evans and others have said, Wenger's future dominates everything - it's bigger than the FA Cup, bigger than 4th or 5th. We all know this. Think of what it will all be about on here after the final. If we win: 'this vindicates him' / 'no it changes nothing'. If we lose: 'further evidence he should go' / 'no getting to a final represents progress' etc, etc. Sad but true.

  135. BADARSE

    Apr 17, 2014, 10:26 #49746

    tpm!??! I am now being 'character assassinated' by acronyms! 'Curiouser and curiouser!' cried Alice. See tpm, you've made the young girl cry, and I thought it was only music that did that when it wrote the songs. If you want to clown sign the job application and I shall arrange an interview. If you have big feet, a rotating bow-tie, and a shiny red nose it might help.

  136. Green Hut

    Apr 17, 2014, 10:19 #49745

    Can't wait for all the waverers to clamber back onside now The Double looks nailed on after last nights result. Even in the middle of our shocking fall from grace 68% wanted The Great Man given a new contract if we managed top 4 and FA Cup so that number will only grow now it looks like happening. 'One Arsene Wenger' will be sung loud and proud if we win at Hull, 'In Arsene We Trust' will be back in position at the Newcastle game, and in the stands at least, nothing will change. And Chris seems bemused that some on here might occasionally feel the need to be a teensy bit harsh on Wenger!

  137. Chris

    Apr 17, 2014, 10:13 #49744

    SGRB - I think it's a very fine line when someone (Westlower) is basically mocked for having supported the team enthusiastically earlier in the season. At that point, you risk conflation between Westlower's support of the team and support of the manger yourselves (actually, it wasn't you mostly but the point still stands) and that is what leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. Supporting the team is what its' all about at the end of the day - your friend over at AT has openly posted that he wants us the lose the FA Cup final if it will help remove Wenger. Give me all the arguments you lie about a sprat to catch a mackerel, short term versus long term etc, that is still wrong. In my opinion, "where we are" is best assessed by our performance, and as I mentioned that is likely to be at least on par, over all, this year. "Where we might be" in an absolute best case scenario with everything going our way can indeed be judged from Liverpool's performance under Rodger's this year but this single year of success for Liverpool only marginally alters the relationship between resources and expected performance. You are talking about a one-off example, I am talking about statistical relationships. If you wish to take a precautionary approach to interpreting that single event and say, "hang on, never mind the last 16 years, this has never happened before and might be a worrying sign of things to come", you could do that. That's what I'm doing, But no more than that.

  138. BADARSE

    Apr 17, 2014, 10:00 #49743

    News update."Nothing new to report on the questers, who travel with the sign of the hedgehog, though the El Cid character was veering off route towards Aintree with one or two straggling followers, muttering incoherent nonsense like '6 to 4 Guv', 'two furlongs out and he gave him the whip', 'What would Barney Curley say of this?' and 'under starter's orders'. We can now report he is back at the head of this band. They are a merry sight to behold, musicians, singers, jugglers, jesters and plate-spinners, but as yet no clowns have joined the troupe." Oh yes, and hear ye all, permission to post on the Ronline Gooner is granted.

  139. BADARSE

    Apr 17, 2014, 9:23 #49742

    Good morning gentlemen and ladies. "Breaking news! It has been widely reported, in this year of your Lord 2014, that there is a distinct possibility of the discovering of The Holy Grail within the vicinity of the pitch at a place named Goodison Park. It is yet to be confirmed, but also reported is a band of questers making their way to the north west of this Albion. They carry strange banners displaying a large bottom and a nose. They are a frolicking, happy and raucous group led by two on horseback. One resembling Joan of Arc the other El Cid, one is odd, the other an even individual. Said to accompany them is a loud one. He espouses to no one in particular, but is just soliloquising and gesticulating as he marches. They are proclaiming to bystanders that they have been bidden to 'come forth', and are doing so."

  140. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 17, 2014, 9:07 #49741

    Chris, you know from our earlier exchanges that I'm aware your position has shifted a bit and I have to ability to recognise 'nuance' - I was reacting to the reactions of you and Westlower last night to my original point. Let's get back to it: I said "Rodgers is a better manager than Wenger in 2014". A non-contentious opinion. Yet Westlower feels he must take issue with it, then Chris weighs in with "You're using Liverpool's success as a stick to beat Arsenal with". This is the tired old conflation of Arsene and Arsenal. It's not about that - nor is it about trying to 'damn Wenger for eternity'. It's about being realistic and honest about where we are. How anyone could look at those two performance v Liverpool this year, and the other performances of the respective teams, and conclude that Wenger has come out on top is beyond me. Liverpool have pulled away one of the main pillars of the Wenger defence - you cannot compete with teams with greater resources, and Wenger always finishes above teams with less resources. All the evidence points to Wenger no longer being able to compete at the very top. He may stumble on for a couple more years, but the Wenger era is over.

  141. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 17, 2014, 1:01 #49740

    Up4Grabs, it was always inevitable, when he blows it himself there's always someone else to step in to help him out. And you can be sure when he cocks it up again before the seasons out some one else will be just as obliging, i don't know what he has the most of, excuses or lives .

  142. Up4Grabs

    Apr 17, 2014, 0:26 #49739

    Oh f-ck... Now Everton are going to blow it and let Wenger sneak another season of CL football. Will this nightmare never end??

  143. jeff wright

    Apr 17, 2014, 0:14 #49738

    Nike not Adidas of course . Seeing that Nike is a yank firm you would have thought they would want to stick with Stan and share in his future success.

  144. jeff wright

    Apr 17, 2014, 0:03 #49737

    Chris,I don't need to read a report that Amos dug up like a rabid starving dog does with a buried bone to know that Wenger is not getting the best value for money spent of any manager.This can only apply to the value that shareholders , such as the ones who sold up and departed with millions did. Punters paying the highest prices in football over the last trophyless decade have not had any value for the money they spent. And top sponsor Adidas has moved on to be replaced by struggling Puma . Wenger's 'value' over the past decade has been based on showing a profit mainly by selling our best players while still managing to provide the cash cow CL TV cash albeit never actually winning the trophy or anything else either.Desperate down market Puma will be praying that Wenger doesn't mess up in the Prem and against Hull in the FAC final.

  145. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 23:56 #49736

    SGRB – Did I ever say that Wenger was necessarily a better manger than Rodgers? I said you could very well argue that Rodgers had been the best manager in the PL this season. It’s the implications of that I disagree with, as if this somehow damns Wenger eternally. He’s still a decent manager – a more than decent manager – but he has foibles and failings that prevent him taking us to the top anymore. That’s the reality. The absurdity is in the likes of you getting them out of all perspective and so you end up throwing the baby out with the bath water and imaginging that this damns him rather than seeing the situation as is. It’s all about that word I know you love – balance. And did I say I necessarily wanted him to carry on? No –I have said I’d welcome the right manager to replace him. I agree he's had his time, it's someone elses now. You have a real problem conflating all sorts of arguments because you can’t understand how someone can’t be either totally for or against the manger – you always have had, right back to 18 months or so ago. But life isn’t like that mate, it’s a bit more nuanced. And so are people's opinions - unless they're on a soapbox. You aren't a script writer for AT are you, by the way?

  146. DW Thomas

    Apr 16, 2014, 23:30 #49735

    Liked Kallstrom and Giroud's touch on his goal was world class. Yet, West Ham was terrible second half and seemed to only threaten from set pieces. The club need a total makeover. The core squad is good, but need a manager who will kick them up the rear when needed. ESPN's commentators talked of Arsene's hollow "mental strength" comments about the team. He should retire that statement as its the complete opposite. Any time we play a game with something on the line we bottle it, save Saturday. The annual title tilt collapse is just too boring and predictable now. Had we a top class striker alone this season could have been very different. How many of us were surprised Giroud scored that type of goal from his right foot last night? One must remember the players are treated like pampered princes, so I don't really feel too bad for them when they fail. Sure, I want them to win as much as any Arsenal fan, but too often they flop. To compound it we have a manager who just reinforces the mental frailty. Lets,hope for an FA Cup,win and fourth only to see major changes and improvements all around!

  147. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 16, 2014, 23:28 #49734

    If I'm railing against anything, Chris, it's the preposterousness of the arguments being put forward - Wenger must be better than Rodgers 'cos we beat them early season and knocked them out of the Cup. It's the utter absurdity of STILL defending this manager when all his failings have been so completely and utterly exposed this season on an unprecedented scale. I'm not looking for a stick to beat Arsenal with - those of you who want him to carry on are the ones hurting the club. There is no argument left for it, no basis to still be attempting to claim resources are being withheld from Wenger, no evidence for your 'hope' he might turn it around or your 'guarantee' we'd be above Liverpool if they were in the CL, or that Wenger would 'own that bitch' Mourinho 'all day long' if they had the same resources, given the utterly one sided nature of their head to head record. If being in the CL is such a hindrance, perhaps you should be advocating we finish 5th or lower this season, in order to put in a proper challenge for the title next season? And maybe try and stir up some of that 'emotion' that is driving Liverpool to the title?

  148. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 23:12 #49733

    Actually Jeff – YOU could make it up and frequently do when it comes to discussion about those areas, as Amos pointed out time and time again. Fair play, you were correct in you assertion that we would fall short against the big teams and that would be our undoing but when it comes to the financials you are frequently left floundering. And it isn’t just me who’s trying to prove anything – I take it you did have a look at the Sporting Intelligence report Amos kindly pointed out for you?

  149. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 23:00 #49732

    Ron - It doesn't do anything of the sort! Just because Liverpool have done something really good, that doesn't detract from Wenger's over-achievement in the league virtually every season. Even this year, we are on course for a decent return. As for being 'lucky' that other teams blow up - it's all about the 38 games, isn't it?

  150. Ron

    Apr 16, 2014, 22:35 #49731

    Chris - the point is mate that what Liverpool have done has torn up Wengers excuse manual ie the hitherto tried and trusted one with the dog ears that hes pulled out of his top pocket for 8 years and used to spin up his transparent failings. His luck never seems to desert him though at this time of each season as Everton have just evaporated to Pulis s boys as you say. Even i ve not doubted the likelihood of 4th though plus the Cup hopefully, (which i have been excited over) as i love the FAC - unlike Westie and many others who've been bitten by 'Cup snobbery 'for years if only due to Evertons fixtures and creaking little squad. If we do 'the double', ill be well and truly excited if Arsene says 'enough and au revoir'.Its been too long a wait.

  151. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 22:32 #49730

    Sorry Ron I must be missing something - where have I insulted you? Maybe it's not me who needs to lighten up if you're that sensitive! And what's this CV of how long you haven't rated the current team's chances / Wenger for? Not sure what you're getting at old chap, perhaps you have misinterpreted something I've written? As for Jeff - yes he said the big games would be decisive and I said not necessarily. He was right - I don't have a problem admitting that. As you say, it's only football... and I don't have a crystal ball, only my opinions.

  152. jeff wright

    Apr 16, 2014, 22:32 #49729

    Ron, Chris is still trying to prove that Wenger is doing a good job,one of his main points on this is his claim that Wenger gets more value for money spent than other managers,you couldn't make it up.

  153. Ron

    Apr 16, 2014, 22:23 #49728

    You need to lighten up Chris, its just silly old football and don't be so insulting by re writing my posting history either. I wrote Arsenal off as challengers after seeing the pathetic show at OT last November and have wanted Wenger out since 2007 at first and then re inforced my view in August 2011. Never changed and never will. 'Excited' my a--e. Westie can take a bit of ribbing even if you can't and he can dish it out too and good on him for it. A good few with your views made rods for your own backs when you were ganging up and ripping Jeff up a few months back. Youve all got egg welded on your faces in truth.At least most of you have had the good grace to back track lately or have just disappeared into thin air. Credit due though, you and Westie are still here.

  154. jeff wright

    Apr 16, 2014, 22:16 #49727

    It's looking like Rodgers v Mourinho at Anfield for the league now with City cracking up . Palace away will be a tough nut to crack for Liverpool with all the pressure on them . Mourinho has a habit of getting results in big games so if I were a Liverpool supporter I wouldn't be ordering the champers just yet. Everton look like the pressure is getting to them as also,just as well we have a manager and players who can handle it away!

  155. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 22:14 #49726

    Ron - Yes you are absolutely correct that my "use of the word 'guarantee' is pure hubris and i suspect being used as hyperbole to beef up what can only be a loose theoretical notion". Obviously I don't know, I'm just saying I'm pretty sure that would be the case, or at least that I quit strongly believe that it would. I think what Liverpool have done this season is brilliant - inspirational even - it's just getting my back up a bit that this is being used as a stick to so definitively beat Arsenal and the manager. It's still very likely we'll end up 4th (Everton did well tonight didn't they?) and with an FA Cup win this season and that won't be bad at all really. We've had an awful run and it's worse because the deficiencies that we all knew were there have been exposed but honestly, the big picture isn't that bad. And have you seen the goal Bale has just scored? We could do with a bit of that...

  156. Ron

    Apr 16, 2014, 22:09 #49725

    Never mind Rodgers, i give you Mr Tony Pulis. Prem Manager of the Season for me by a mile and some. Palace have been just fantastic since January. So pleased for them. Such great fans and always have been. (Nigel Pearson - Manager of the Champ'p! Thought id slip that in. C mon the Foxes!)Great fans too.

  157. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 22:04 #49724

    SGRB - They've got ten more points than us, yes, but we've beaten them twice. They've clearly benefited from not playing CL. It's not as simple as you are making out, that's all I'm saying. By your reckoning Rodger's must be the best manager in the country - he may well be that this year, yo could argue that, it's just the way you seem to think that's a good stick to beat Arsenal and the manager with that I find odd. I know you feel affronted when someone says something that you don't like but really, there's no need. Just because some of us don't paint the world in broad brush strokes of anti-Wengerism, there's no need for you to feel threatened. Seeing how the likes of you and Ron are railing against Westlower - in Ron's case because he had the temerity to actually believe and get excited when his - our - team was doing well is quite bizarre. Surely Westlower is feeling bad enough about what's happened without you, Ron, rubbing his nose in it. Unless of course being right is more important than Arsenal doing well...

  158. Mr Hedgehog

    Apr 16, 2014, 21:58 #49723

    Now what's the odds on that Mr Whippet?

  159. Ron

    Apr 16, 2014, 21:56 #49722

    Chris . you might have a point there, but your use of the word 'guarantee' is pure hubris and i suspect being used as hyperbole to beef up what can only be a loose theoretical notion. Coaches such as Clough to name but one, more often than not lost Cup games to his nearest rivals but his record still dwarfed most of them.

  160. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 16, 2014, 21:51 #49721

    Chris, you seemed to be coming around, but now you're regressing back into Wengerland. It is this time of season that counts. If you - or Westlower - really don't think this Liverpool team is better than this AFC team - and that Rodgers is performing better than Wenger in 2014 - then there is nothing more to talk about. We were better than them early in the season. They're better now, they're having the better overall season - Rodgers is doing a better job than Wenger, Rodgers is the better manager.

  161. Ron

    Apr 16, 2014, 21:40 #49720

    Westie - Good grief mate, talk about grasping at straws.52763 You've pulled a short one there buddy but credit due you keep grubbing around with your nose to the floor for reasons to sustain your position. Your bony old knees must be as sore as hell surely ha! How did it go now 'cmon you rip roaring, title chasing, CL challenging Gunners' or words to that effect as you recommended bailing out of both of the Cups in December time. Youre best asked to answer why it is we are where we are and to proclaim that youve still the nerve to seek an FAC Final seat? Egg and faces come to mind and im betting you need a brillo pad to get it of yours old Son. GOONER 89 - The other refrain is that 'any other Club wd be where Liverpool are if Saurez didnt play for them'. Work the logic out in that one if you can. You wd think they wdt claim that one given Arsenes futile and embarrassing efforts to sign the cannibal kid, but hey, any excuse is a good excuse for Arsenes acolytes.

  162. tpm

    Apr 16, 2014, 21:39 #49719

    this i pathetic akbs crawl out the wood work over a routine win over a poor west ham and all is well again. badarse and his alter egos have discussions with themselves in ridiculous language thats is used to hide from the problems at arsenal by flowering up his nonsense!

  163. jjetplane

    Apr 16, 2014, 21:34 #49718

    Forget Martinez - cannot handle the pressure. On the other hand. Reckon Pulis could shake the CL up! He is the man. Bit like George really.

  164. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 21:27 #49717

    SGRB - He's right though, isn't he? We've played Liverpool three times this season and beat them twice. Unless you are saying that because Liverpool are top of the league, Rodger's must be the best manager in the league, I don't quite see how you come to your conclusion. Liverpool weren't great for parts of the first half the season, during which Arsenal were almost universally acknowledged as the best team. Perhaps you should say that 'Rodger's is the best manager in 2014 - except when he wasn't because Arsenal knocked Liverpool out of the FA Cup..." Make Liverpool play ten European games this season and Arsenal none and I guarantee we'd be above them in the table.

  165. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 16, 2014, 20:28 #49716

    Westlower, oh dear, you got me, I'll have to concede the point. Looking at the respective performances of the two managers and teams this season, clearly Wenger is the better manager in 13/14. I rather think the onus is on you to explain how that is, given this season - that's if your comment wasn't the last, desperate cry of the Wengerite. Welcome to your latest comeback though. Frank and Elvis would be proud.

  166. Gooner89

    Apr 16, 2014, 20:26 #49715

    I have not changed my view on Wenger. He has to go And now a message to all those AKB's in their bunker at AKB central command. Those of us who want him out have listened for years about how we can't compete witch the Petro dollars of Chelski and City. So now Liverpool are top with average crowds of 20,000 less than us and no big spending either. They did however manage to keep their top player by their American owner flatly refusing to sell him. So now the AKB's say "They are only top because they haven't played in Europe" Utter rubbish of course. Why? Well if that is the case how are Atletico Madrid top of La Liga and in the S/F of the CL? For those that don't know tv deals in Spain are done by the club not the league. Most of the money goes to RM and Barca making AM achievement even more remarkable. I look forward to AKB Central Command coming up with a rebuttal to that

  167. Westlower

    Apr 16, 2014, 20:13 #49714

    @SGRB In your post 52725 you stated that Liverpool have a better manager than AFC. How do you assess Liverpool's two defeats at the Emirates this season? The FA Cup loss coming a week after Liverpool's 5-1 victory at Anfield. Why was Rodgers unable to motivate his team to give a repeat performance a week later? Given AFC played a weakened team with Fabianski, Jenkinson & Sanogo starting, why didn't the Liverpool stars wipe the floor with us again?

  168. Any Old Iron

    Apr 16, 2014, 19:20 #49713

    @ Wenger Out - I found your comments on the north interesting. Perhaps if we add geography, which is invariably more malevolent, the weather which is indeed more extreme, as well as demographics; parts of the north can claim Nordic heritage. The Industrial revolution had it's roots in the major towns and cities which are predominantly north if idle England. Southern softies a a term we are all familiar with. Arsenal I think are the only football club who can rightly assert that they alone cannot be regarded as southern softies. Arsenal's history is testimo y to that. If I do personally rate any norther fans then it's got to be " we are Leeds". Tough tough boys....marching all together ....

  169. Gaz

    Apr 16, 2014, 19:19 #49712

    @allybear: I just don't get it Pal. Used to be a huge Wenger fan-wouldn't hear anything bad said against him-but this is just ridiculous now. I can think of many reasons why I want him to go yet the arguments against that opinion seem to be based only on sentimentally and a belief-against all the possible evidence-that he'll somehow rediscover his 'mojo'. I also think a lot of fans simply think by criticising AW you're both criticising the club and showing a complete lack it loyalty...

  170. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 16, 2014, 19:11 #49711

    Do you think the scousers are wasting their time debating Londoners especially Arsenal fans and all that goes with them? i'd bet their not, no they have more important things to do like concentrate on winning the Premier league title (unlike ourselves yet again) with a breath of fresh air manager who knows what he's doing (unlike ours) so maybe that's what we should be doing instead of worrying about them, concentrating on our own team and it's failings and the failings of it's past it manager. And if Liverpool do win the prem and personally i hope they do concentrating on how we can do the same, although we won't have to concentrate to hard

  171. allybear

    Apr 16, 2014, 19:01 #49710

    @GAZ well said lad i think you have made excellent points. My earlier article says how i feel and the club wont go forward with AW at the helm. He is replaceable and has been for some time.

  172. Arsene

    Apr 16, 2014, 18:46 #49708

    I want to go GAZ but Stan keeps telling me I must stay. What can I do when he is also offering me another 2m but I say 'why not make it ten' and I get you 60m for Jack and Theo. Do not listen to MR EVANS - he will make your tired head spin.

  173. BADARSE

    Apr 16, 2014, 18:39 #49707

    WENGER OUT you are correct my friend. The overall descriptive character you have given is indeed a northern thing. Each has it's own slight variation. My Dad was a 'tyke', born in Leeds, and our family visits were pure joy to the little BADARSE. Roundhay Park, going to the Leeds Variety one evening, trips to Knaresborough and Old Mother Shipton's, Harrogate, York and Dick Turpin's cell, climbing up Otley Chevin, the trams, the market, visits to Skipton, up on the Moors, ah, memories. I was accepted as one of the locals immediately. My Mum was a Londoner as am I, and though I no longer live there I still refer to myself as a Londoner. I tease the inhabitants of every place on earth for their failure in not being from London-all tongue in cheek. How true, love London, but something about the north. So young fella, we are both Londoners and love it, with a little dash of Yorkshire in us. Quite a good combination lad.

  174. Gaz

    Apr 16, 2014, 18:26 #49706

    @Tony Evans: Couldn't agree more with you fella. I gave up after the Norwich away game last year but tried to give it one more go when we finally spent big on Ozil. Ok it wasn't the signing we really needed but it was big and new and I hoped it meant there was real change coming. First sign that it was 'business as usual' was the ****ing up of our champions league group. Then there were the big defeats to all our rivals and then the usual deterioration in our league form when we'd topped the league for most of the season. Like you the single most important issue for me is seeing Wenger leave the Club. I'm not going to slag him off, call him names, or pretend that he's not been a great manager. But everything in life has a natural cycle and his has come to an end. Quite frankly I simply can't enjoy any Arsenal victory if I believe it's going to strengthen his belief that he's still the man for the job. I just so wish he'd say he's leaving and I'm sure every single Arsenal fan would want us to win the FA cup. As it is I'm also sure that winning it will mean he definitely signs a new deal regardless of whether we finish fourth or fifth. I never imagined I'd ever feel this way and it hurts. I wish I could put all this to the back of my mind but I can't. As I said the other day the natural thing under a normal board would have been for pressure to have been put in AW 5 years ago. It may have made him invest more and up his own game which in turn may have made his own position untenable if it still never 'happened' and he'd have left 2/3 years back. Alternatively we might of greatly improved and we'd all be right behind him. Sadly our useless board simply let him get on with it and we now find ourselves in a position where the supporters are split 50/50 and constantly at each others throats. The club is a mess and we're going nowhere fast with him in charge. What to do though? Nothing really. All we can do is wait two years for him to go. Sadly I'm almost certain there'll be another big push for him to sign yet another extension and the agony continues...

  175. jeff wright

    Apr 16, 2014, 17:59 #49705

    4th place after last night's result now looks likely for us , at least on paper that is , and another pesky qualifier tie pre-season for a CL or Europa cup spot to play as a result of this depending on the outcome . Coming after the World Cup and with preseason attempted money making matches to play for Stan it's obvious that Wenger should have avoided this malarkey. He really is stuck in a rut of his own making with his past mismangement still impacting on events, such as his decisions to give big Bendy a 4 year contract on 50k a week and other equally ropy calls on the likes of Diaby . Then we have the Ozil signing that looks as though it was done by Stan and co in a moment of panic with Wenger having failed to sign anyone despite having £35 million at least with which to do so. In any other walk of life such mismanegement would have got someone fired. Wenger claimed recently that our players had become complacent about playing in the champions league and this could have made them take games less seriously. To me this just looks like another excuse from Wenger to try and deflect attention away from his own short comings rather than a valid reason for the diabolical results against top opponent that we have once again witnessed . Even Mourinho at Chelsea wouldnt have survived those and the usual late season collapse from Wenger is now trying to be glossed over by the fortutious FAC run. Albeit nothing has been won yet and the season will be over before we know this. Also the 4th place battle is now again being promoted as a trophy if it's won . You couldn't make it up. The reality is that Wenger on 7.5m a year wages and, with a 150m wage bill and 42m spent on Ozil , should be doing better than scruffing around battling Everton for 4th place . Last season it was the spuds who we just pipped by a point for 4th with us having a 50m higher wage bill than them . We see the same thing every season , the only difference this time is the FAC run , that was mainly down to having had all of our games at home iduring it. We didnt look so good at Wembley against Wigan . The demise of United may save Wenger in the league because were they still on the ball with Ferguson in charge then, given Wenger's record in recent times against that cretin , a Europa Cup spot would most likely be the best that Wenger could hope for after the improvement by Liverpool this term. Getting back to what on paper looks like a 4th place finish for us it might in reality be a bit tougher. As it happens I think that United, who have nothing left to play for now and who have had players out at night dancing drunkenly in the street recently, could be a weak link that Martinez might exploit . If he can nick a point against City,not impossible given their away form,and win the other games , then it could be a close run thing between us and Everton for that qualifier tie in August. Fingers crossed then that Pulis can do us a favour tonight and get an unlikely result at Everton.

  176. WENGER OUT

    Apr 16, 2014, 17:48 #49703

    Having lived in Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Barnsley, Harrogate, Blackpool and Chester I can say that the sense of community, collective pride and sense of moral justice is more of a Northern thing than a scouse thing. Of course you get it in the south, but I think there is a certain spirit in the North, perhaps born out of weaker economies and less transient communities. There's a reason so many trade union leaders are proud Northerners, my own grandfather (a Rotherham born lad) was one. All that said, I am a Southerner born and raised, love the south, love London, but there is something about the North.

  177. BADARSE

    Apr 16, 2014, 17:37 #49702

    Allow me to offer a little insight, or pontificate as some would have it. Communities/regions/nations, or all groups, to perhaps a lesser extent, including even football clubs, have a perceived identity. Liverpool has it's own special brand of character, but all are unique in their own way. Faced with hardship for generations, existing in a rough and hard-bitten area the scouser became what he/she is. Humour helps alleviate the pain of existence and humour plays a big part in Liverpool life. So too their music borne of a need to express. Docklands breed a no-nonsense individual, and though the docks are only just open for business now the mentality lingers. These factors have led to a strong trade unionist background, and a prevalent sense of moral justice. As in, 'it's OK to nick the wheels off that flashy parked car, but not off anyone's car round our way!' Some aspects are corrupted, it's what you get with humanity. In Liverpool the Sun newspaper still suffers it's reduced circulation figures as a result of their reporting of the tragedy. Oh that no one ever bought one of Murdoch's rags ever again. This type of community have a collective mood akin to a terrier's. They sink their teeth in to an ankle and will not let go, no matter how hard the leg shakes. I would stand with them every time.

  178. Ron

    Apr 16, 2014, 17:15 #49701

    BADARSE - Absolutely mate. The added tragedy, is that we re not surprised at the Police, Politicians and Judiciary motivated stitch up are we mate. Hillsboro is just one that been flushed out. Im firmly and will always be of the view that no other community apart from Liverpool would have had the drive and sense of justice to have got this far. The communities there have been having to do it for a century or more, to stave off injustices directed at them in so many facets of their lives. I know youve northern family and will be as awareas i am. These fools who condemn the scouse as inter alia 'victims' and 'bleaters' make make me so annoyed. Im sure they know nothing of scouse people, who are in so many ways unique (in my view anyway). Sorry to sound like a closet Pool fan guys. Im not at all. Im not keen on the Club really (soft spot for Everton though!). There are some distasteful types on Merseyside for sure, but there are everywhere of course.

  179. BADARSE

    Apr 16, 2014, 17:01 #49700

    The thing with the '96' is that it was an attempted 'stitch up'. Loss of life in tragic circumstances is a plague on all our houses, however some catch the imagination more and that in turn is picked up by the media as it sells more 'copy'. In the Hillsborough Disaster it was avoidable, an error of judgement, an attempt at shifting the blame onto dead individuals with scant regard for their families, the truth or justice. It was an abomination and those families, heroes one and all, have fought tooth and nail against the establishment for a quarter of a century. They have finally proven the police and authorities were complicit in every dark deed at their disposal. Does it sound as if I am cross about this? You bet! It isn't for the '96', they are gone, it is for the families and every prospective family that I celebrate their victory. The higher the profile the better. Power to the people! (Think we may be brothers-in-arms on this one Ron).

  180. 1971 Gooner

    Apr 16, 2014, 16:52 #49699

    On the subject of squad depth, this was explained by David Dein in the recent Sky documentary "Arsene who?" - I quote; "Arsene will never put talent on top of talent". Of course, what constitues talent is a matter of opinion, but the "if I buy Alonso I kill Denilson" assertion from a few years back does appear to back Mr Dein's assertion up.

  181. Ron

    Apr 16, 2014, 16:50 #49698

    Jimmy Snooka - what utter garbage. What on earth has the Bradford fire disaster got to do with Liverpool? Juve do have a memorial as is correct for them so to do seeing as it was their supporters who sadly lost their lives and not one from England. Youre the type who ought to go on to the Kop and voice your erudite views one day. I m sure you'd be most welcome.

  182. BADARSE

    Apr 16, 2014, 16:41 #49697

    Julesd, my wife thinks I am the hedgehog of the family, because I am so prickly on occasions, (she calls me lamb though, ha ha). Life is just too beautiful sweetie. If you are fortunate enough to just look and savour, then that is everything. As Winnie the Pooh says, 'Just be!' Been in the garden for two days now, (wife locked me out of the house-only kidding). She annually shins up the tree at the bottom of the garden and lops a few branches off, she loves doing it, I just stand admiringly, she has shapely legs. Here's a story for you. My Dad died many years ago and on the first visit to the grave after his burial I plucked three sprouting plants growing from the freshly turned soil, took them home where two promptly died. The third is the enormous tree in the garden. The Grandchildren know it as Great Grandad's tree. It's a good story, isn't it? SGRB/chris, are you two the same person? One a schizophrenic opposite of the other personality? Love your discussions with yourself but to quash any misunderstanding of cruciate ligament injuries they are not borne of fatigue. They just happen when the brain tells the body, in this case the knee, to do something it physically cannot do. We are frail creatures you know. Ligaments are as thick as a man's finger made of many fibrous strands, a bit like strong elastic. They stretch and sustain huge pressures and stresses. They cannot withstand a certain kind of sharp, snapping trauma. I ruptured mine in a game and I was definitely not fatigued. The only connection is if a player is whacked and in desperation attempts the impossible with dire consequences. The main cause is a twisting, turning movement at speed. The ligament just says, 'I can't perform this action', and ruptures. Anyone suffering with athlete's foot or similar just call the surgery, I am always available for consultations. Little bit of info the surgeon I saw, a Mr. England of Harley Street performed said operation on Ossie Ardiles. Edmund, you and me too, buddy.

  183. Jimmy Snooka

    Apr 16, 2014, 15:37 #49696

    Mike, you mention Gerrard's loyalty. He would of gone to Chelsea if he wasn't threatened by some Scouse Mafia nutter so let's not start with the "isn't he great for being loyal" rubbish. Stevie Me would of left years ago if it wasn't for the threat of a shooting. As for the scousers beating up those citeh fans, doesn't surprise me. RIP to the 96 but where is the Bradford Fire victims memorial, as well as Heysel as someone has already mentioned?

  184. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 15:03 #49695

    Bard - I said I hoped but didn't believe it would be different. Maybe it will - last summer was the first time we tried to get our feet under the big boys table and have hopefully learnt something. Although I admit that the winter Draxler saga possibly suggests we haven't.... I suspect next year will be harder, but not by as much as you think. Liverpool will struggle more next season - they won't have the same momentum and will have the CL to cope with. The money won't change things cos they're already spending CL-style money. Would a new Arsenal manager necessarily have loads to spend? Maybe, maybe not. Fair enough what you say about the same mistakes being made though - I genuinely thought we wouldn't collapse this year, with the team having bedded in better and a couple of new faces helping the squad.

  185. Bard

    Apr 16, 2014, 14:45 #49694

    Chris: you're right my comments are borne out of frustration about 8/9 years of it to be precise. It's not because we never win anything though. I can take the losses if I feel the manager and the club are trying to address problems in the team. Year after year it's the same story, underinvestment and problems not addressed.You rightly talk about serious investment in the team. I wholehearted agree but it hasn't happened for the last 8 years or more. Why do you believe that it will be different next year? Other clubs have upped their game and next year will be much more difficult. I have seen nothing this season to suggest that Wenger is remotely capable of leading that challenge.

  186. Edmund

    Apr 16, 2014, 14:29 #49693

    Nice article, Kevin. BADARSE, you made a good point about whether we would say the same things about the manager if he were our dad/granddad. I guess I'm a bit soft on Wenger because he seems a real nice gentleman. I loved the way Arsenal played the last 15 years. This year there were two truly Arsenal moments from Wilshere and Rosicky. Outside of that, I hardly recognised the team. Defensive and boring as Chelsea and yet got absolutely trashed not once but four times. Just when there seemed to be a statement of intent with Ozil, the purse strings were tighted again in Jan. Kevin is right that the tide has turned against Wenger. I'm sad to read fans hoping we lose games just to spite him. He has to go to make way for necessary change but I would like Arsenal to do well and let him leave with dignity.

  187. allybear

    Apr 16, 2014, 14:27 #49692

    A win against a mediocre team last night and there is talk of what could be achieved next season! It beggers belief the loyalty there is on here to Wenger, he who has presided over the humiliating defeats this season and still he is talked about in terms of "he can fix it". We have the worst record for heavy defeats of the top 5 teams. You do realise that he will not be manager some day!

  188. Lanesra

    Apr 16, 2014, 14:14 #49691

    Sanogo is no Anelka, I happened to watch premiership years 97/98 the other day as it was on Sky. Anelka scored on his debut against Man U and we won the game 3-2. What a season that was. Talk about spirit and desire.... The quality of some of the players AW is bringing in is just simply not good enough. The question is How? How do the supporters force a change in management? The board think AW is great.

  189. Jack

    Apr 16, 2014, 14:09 #49690

    Moscow Gooner in 2005 we had a capacity of 38,000 Man Utd had a capacity of 75,000.Was it fair that we both got the same nunber of tickets? distribution of cup final tickets have never been fair.On last nights game it was further proof that we have a team of slow track bullies.The Graham Hick of football.I will praise Cazorla when he turns up for a big game.Wenger and the AKB's can never use the excuse about not competing with moneybags City and Chelsea again with Livepool on the verge of winning the title.Who have showed you can keep your best player Mr Wenger

  190. Ron

    Apr 16, 2014, 13:59 #49689

    Hi lads. A few points. 1. Chris - im of the view Agger did JW deliberately so to fix him. If it was me still playing Agger would be looking over his shoulders for the next few years! In todays game though its likely JW maybe thanked him for the enforced holiday. 2. I still feel its in the balance of AW staying. My guess is staying. its just too good a job and he s under no pressure at all. He cd manage under these circs till hes 80. 3. Big Sam did speak highly of Jarvis. 4. Bit concerned re the anti scouse rhetoric. Im a little biased as i have many Evertonion freinds of course, but ALL club s have louts. Just to reach some perspective, i should mention that a freind of mine's Son (22 year old) was punched several times to the side of his head and kicked at Stoke 3 years back in the FAC tie there. You may say, 'oh well, Stokies, theyre neandherthals'. Let me tell you, hes an Arsenal fan, regular away match goer and this occured in the away end bar area. His assailants were 2 Arsenal fans!. Ill leave you to ponder that guys and form your own conclusions. His 'crime'? A different opinion to them of the merits/de merits of big Sols return to the Club.5. The FAC allocation is just posturing surely? At the old Wembley Clubs had 30000. The rest are disseminated amongst FA members as in my view it should be. Its the FA showpiece and all clubs from the coach and Horses in my village upwards are members after all. Yes some fans miss out. Its up to the Clubs to decide a system for who gets 'prioritised' surely. Arsenal are very poor at doing that. Just ask any of the official SC s ticket secretary.6. BADARSE - That Clint Eastwood you say. He cd play for us. Centre midfield? We ve found our long needed 'Enforcer' at last!! Agger wouldnt have fu---d with Clint would he! It would have been a case of 'do you feel lucky punk'(Agger, not you BADARSE!.

  191. Dottie

    Apr 16, 2014, 13:42 #49688

    Here's a hard question which I have been perusing all week. Would you rather Arsenal won the FA Cup and finished fourth, Won FA Cup and finished fifth, Lost FA Cup and finished fourth or lost FA Cup and finished 5th. Decisions, decisions.

  192. Mike

    Apr 16, 2014, 13:27 #49687

    Suggestions that FIFA are looking at City's financial affairs, wonder what the outcome will be? If Liverpool do win the league I will take my hat off to Mr. Gerrard purely because of his loyalty. If he gets the PL medal he would have every club honour available to him. Having said that , they have done it with a very small squad and without injury. They wont get another chance like this because the big guns will reload in the off season

  193. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 13:25 #49686

    SGRB - You are probably right on the player development front and I hope you are not right about us not buying a striker. Sanogo would be a decent number 3, with Giroud a very good number two...

  194. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 16, 2014, 13:17 #49685

    chris - on why Wenger leaves his squads underpowered. I'd advance the theory that it's to leave plenty of room for player development. It is a crucial part of a season's satisfaction for him to feel that he has 'developed' a young player or two. This season - and next - it is Sanogo. This is why I'd suggest those who assume he'll buy a top quality striker this summer may end up disappointed. He won't want to 'kill' Sanogo. I'd suggest we all decide now not to spend all summer getting increasingly worked up about 'where's the top striker'.

  195. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 16, 2014, 12:56 #49684

    Well it was inevitable wasn't it? we all knew it would happen, a return to winning ways when the pressure was off,if only this team could have done that when under pressure when there was actually something to play for, we could still be top of the league, and maybe still in the CL instead of this third rate FA cup that some fans wanted us out off and probably not even in it in the first place. But as you say it Kev it has certainly assumed an importance now not only for them but for the manager also. The game itself as you say (am i allowed to agree with you?) wasn't played with much urgency but three good goals all the same, the pick of them from the carthorse galloping in. We now find our selves back in a familiar position scraping fourth and relying on others to do us a favor and cock up in order to stay there but i've no doubt we'll do it now the pressures off, and we can all celebrate the double this season, with a real trophy at last, and our usual imaginary one.

  196. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 12:55 #49683

    SGRB - He played several part games before that run - he wasn't just thrown in. And it is apparently a very controversial idea that cruciate ligament injuries like his are cause by fatigue, anyway.

  197. The Flying Doormat

    Apr 16, 2014, 12:52 #49682

    Interesting that from where you were sitting you only saw Wenger's back. There are a few more that would like to see his back, too. As for Liverpool, where do you think they and the Arsenal would be sitting were Suarez to have swapped clubs? Hmm. That is not to disagree with your fresh, innovative, tactical manager's input into their club's success. Isn't it amazing how one dynamic player (Suarez) can influence a team? I wonder, when Wenger missed out on him, that he looked to Ozil to bring that same quality? Is it possible the reason Wenger has not signed significant players is because his replacement is already known and who has different ideas about how and who he wants in his squad? Wenger's empire is his ego and it is time it was crushed!

  198. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 16, 2014, 12:42 #49680

    Chris - Theo came back from injury, played loads of 90 mins in a row, then broke down again. And if I managed to ride my bike whilst refusing to mend the punctured back tyre, I'd be 'overachieving' too.

  199. Tony Evans

    Apr 16, 2014, 12:40 #49679

    Will Wenger go at the end of the season or not is preying on many a supporters mind at the moment I am sure. It certainly is mine, and is taking preference over everything else connected with Arsenal at the moment, such is the importance of this issue. Perfect scenario (obviously) is win the Cup, finish top four and Wenger bows out. If I knew that this was going to happen I could be right behind the club again. Without that certainty though, and with the sleight chance that losing to Hull and finishing 5th is what it will take to shift Wenger, huge doubts remain as to how I see the rest of the season. I certainly feel that Wenger going at the end of this season is more important than absolutely anything else for the immediate future at Arsenal. The club feels so stale and directionless now it is unbelievable, and Wenger has had more than enough chances to prove doubters like me wrong but he never does.

  200. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 12:38 #49678

    SGRB - The reason titles are usually won by a CL team is because up to four of the top teams from the previous season in each country go into it - Liverpool are the exception because teams rarely come from nowhere (i.e. not even any EL football) to win them. And unless the CL revenue is ploughed directly into the team and in advance, it's obviously not going to increase the ability of a team to fight on two very major fronts. Liverpool have spent only marginally less than Arsenal on wages and transfers recently and unless they up that a lot, they are going to struggle.

  201. jjetplane

    Apr 16, 2014, 12:36 #49677

    Bit lost on how CL could possibly have a 'sapping' effect on a club who do it for financial reasons, year in, year out. Once there in, the foot is off the pedal to the point where coming out at the last sixteen appears as the financial grail. We are simply looking at nothing more that a safely functioning business with an incredibly unbalanced wage bill. Last night's win against a two bob outfit may have some on here 'feeding hedgehogs' but if that is the end and be all you are welcome to it. I think Wenger is only a part of the problem as our some of his disciples (Arteta, Walcott ...) who further the spin out on the pitch. As long as the yank is making money in the global sense, it matters not whether Arsenal are a football club or just another shirt maker competing with Asia. Hang on a minute ..... All I can say about Liverpool is keep on with the good work and it would be a joy to see them nick the PL from under the feet of the other lot. Glad I am not the sort of person who has 'an experience' with a certain group of people and proceed to the logic 'that that is what they are like'. If that were the case I would have a lot of hatred for a lot of cultural segments. I don't and I am also loving the Toffees resurgence too. Nothing like a bit of a shake-up anywhere.

  202. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 16, 2014, 12:31 #49676

    Being in the CL gives a huge advantage in mounting a title challenge - they have far greater resources than those who are not. This is why, throughout Europe, the title winners are invariably a team that's also in the CL. If they do it, Liverpool will be an exception to this. The main reason why Liverpool are doing what Arsenal cannot is, in 2014, they have a better manager.

  203. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 12:26 #49675

    SGRB - There's an element of that in the way injuries come, yes, but not entirely. Jack's impact injury was just bad luck - and even worse timing. And unless you subscribe to some very controversial ideas, Theo's wasn't down to him being run into the ground either. You're simplifying to make a case but weakening your argument in the process. As for the squad - I hold out hope, yes, but maybe not belief, that the squad deficiencies will be rectified by recruitment, even if I can't work out why Wenger wants us to go into every season slightly but critically underpowered... Kevin talks about the damage that Wenger has done to the squad - that's silly talk, going too far. As I never tire of saying - he overachieves almost every year with this damaged squad, doesn't he? Even this year may be par in the league with a trophy to boot. Yes, we might do better with a fresh, young, very talented manager but when folk talk about Wenger doing damage that needs to be repaired or how he is totally incompetent (as our friend from AT continually bangs on about on his site that only serves the purpose of allowing us to laugh at him)they have lost touch with reality and have lost credibility in my eyes.

  204. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 12:14 #49674

    Bard - If there isn't investment in the squad, then you may well be right. But that isn't the same as Wenger being finished as a manager who can compete - that's an exaggeration borne out of your frustration. As well as investment, it also depends on whether we're in Europe - as has been said by others, let's see how Liverpool and Everton cope when they are in Europe. Let's see who Man U bring in and how Martinez replaces Lukaku and Delofeu. To be realistic about the way things are isn't blind loyalty - and it isn't realistic to come out with the simplistic assertions you're making. I think this will be the first time EVER that a team who has spent less has finishes above Wenger's Arsenal and then it's on the back of an exceptional run by an emotion charged Liverpool who had no sapping European football to worry about.

  205. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 16, 2014, 12:08 #49673

    Chirs, you touched on one I omitted to mention - the deep and balanced squad. Do you still genuinely hold out any hope that Wenger will go out and do the business required to make that happen? Also, the injuries happening at the same time aren't bad luck either - they happen together deep into the season because he plays certain players into the ground (because he doesn't trust his shallow, unbalanced squad). For these reasons and others given before, it's very far from possible he'll mount a challenge again.

  206. julesd

    Apr 16, 2014, 11:51 #49672

    Aah a nice win last night and spring is definitely here as we have a new offspring of blackbird, blue tits and wrens in the garden and to top it all off our resident hedgehog has emerged from hibernation and left its calling card by the back door to enable me to start putting out his/her favourite food and of course water. Here endeth the nature lesson, you see life can be lovely.

  207. Website Editor

    Apr 16, 2014, 11:49 #49671

    @jjetplane - so you would welcome thursday evening and sunday football? the hope is that the club makes the CL so that (hopefully) AW's replacement has as firm a foundation to build on as is possible after the damage done to the team by the current manager's methods. CL football would certainly help that. Now of course, if you want to argue that failing to make the top four is the only way to see the back of the manager, that's a different story. I am not so sure he will stay though. Think he is looking to go out on some kind of a good note.

  208. BADARSE

    Apr 16, 2014, 11:44 #49670

    Moscow Gooner, was it ever thus? We as a big club are always penalised in ticket allocations, always have been, probably always will be. The spending on the 'Arch' was hilarious to me. I haven't bought into media/government/big corporation baloney for virtually all of my adult life. It makes me a separatist on many scores, which is a sad thing. I do find myself mostly switching off when groups gather bemoaning England's latest woeful performance as I distanced myself from international football eons ago. Then a chat around facebook and all it's nonsense and drivel again makes me a wallflower, (albeit a strikingly handsome one). I have tried shouting, 'It's behind you!', but as in all pantomime performances, and life is one, but just on a grander scale, the audience is deaf to the warnings.I just find myself drifting away from reality, invariably becoming that little boy with the ball at his feet. Of course real life insists on crowding in, so I have to go searching for clowns again. Still, let's go and drink to the death of that one.

  209. Bard

    Apr 16, 2014, 11:44 #49669

    Chris; the issue isn't whether Wenger can ever win a PL but whether he has what it takes to compete in what will be a 6/7 horse race next year. On the evidence of the last 8 years you'd have to say, not a hope in hell. I'm all for blind loyalty but only in marriage. Whether he stays or not he is finished as a manager who can compete at the top table. Arsenal will have their work cut out staying in touch with the top 6. More of the same, cheap buys, tactical inflexibility, protracted transfer negotiations are a recipe for disaster.

  210. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 11:43 #49668

    SGRB - I know why you say that but I partially disagree. If the squad is good enough Wenger's style of not greatly changing tactics reactively and of making pre-determined substitutions based on fitness measures, could still work - especially over the course of a season. With a bit of luck, injuries wouldn't come at the same time and if the squad was deep and balanced enough, they wouldn't impact as much. It could happen - as I've said recently, perhaps it's more likely with the right alternative coach but it's far from an impossibility under Wenger (any more than him ever winning another trophy as many have said for so long) and I can understand why he might genuinely feel he can do it.

  211. jjetplane

    Apr 16, 2014, 11:31 #49667

    Cheers KENNY good post now that KEVIN has decided getting a 4th post for the zzzzzz year in a row is well ..... good business. Ummm and the FAC is all wrapped up too as it's only Hull. Amazing how Carzola and Giroud 'turn it on' when the virtual trophy is at stake. Well - it pays the wages. The yawn that is Arsenal! KEVIN see you have learnt well from the master as you have now become a Vitalist yourself. As the rubbish song went: 'been through the desert on a horse with no name .....'

  212. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 16, 2014, 11:31 #49666

    Chris, it would take a sea change in managerial approach to turn this team into proper title contenders - proper account of the opposition, a recognition of patterns (that regular humiliations are not 'accidents' and seasonal injury crises are not 'bad luck'), in game management that responds to what's happening on the pitch, a ceding of some power by bringing in specialists. As you know, that's not going to happen under Wenger.

  213. Moscow Gooner

    Apr 16, 2014, 11:21 #49665

    Wenger Out: Scousers never change - was ever thus at Anfield. Going there in the '70s and (early) '80s was a nightmare. Nothing against the Hillsboro' memorial events but how about remembering Heysel in 1985 with the same degree of solemnity?? (Is actually the key reason why I still want City to win the league - oil money and all.) Cup final tickets: it's a joke that (a) in building Wembley the FA didn't aim for say a 115,000 capacity rather than 90,000 (the huge amount of money that was invested in the non-revenue generating arch could have instead been invested in revenue-generating seats and (b) that Hull get the same (pitiful) number of tickets as Arsenal: this I not a question of relative sizes of stadia or support. Hull didn't sell their full semi final allocation; and they couldn't sell out their (micro) ground for the sixth or fifth rounds. We in contrast had 60,000 in every round (including I suspect at the semi). Shouldn't there be some measure of recognition for those fans who actually care enough about the cup to turn up and watch the games?

  214. Chris

    Apr 16, 2014, 11:09 #49663

    Kerryman - I suspect Wenger believes he will bring success back to Arsenal and is determined to do so for the club he loves. He might still do so - it wouldn't take that much, together with a bit of luck, to turn this team into proper title contenders. We've been told by many that Arsenal would never win another trophy under Wenger - now the FA Cup is a distinct possibility, the goal posts have shifted to specifying the PL and CL as the particular trophies out of reach...

  215. Ramgun

    Apr 16, 2014, 11:08 #49662

    Matt Jarvis is an honest man. If he had not fought to keep his feet it would surely have been a penalty. Referees have contributed to the diving problem the game now has by not giving penalties unless a player goes down. Players know that defenders can foul them without punishment unless the attacker hits the deck. I remember Houllier complaining bitterly about Jeffers diving whilst ignoring the fact that a few minutes before Wiltord had been clearly fouled with no penalty given because he had fought to keep his feet. I wonder if Jarvis will be congratulated on his honesty by that paragon of virtue Sam Allardyce?

  216. BADARSE

    Apr 16, 2014, 11:06 #49661

    Kerryman Gooner thanks for such a dignified response, it restores a little belief in human nature. Thing is as you age you still look at the world through those same eyes you always did. I still think I'm a dude, (still playing that Harrison Ford grey-haired look, ha ha), I look in the mirror and am astonished this older guy is looking straight back at me in my usual confrontational way. It's a difficult one for him, it is for me, and as that old conveyor belt rattles you closer to the edge of oblivion, it will be for you too. If only we could leave every scene in life as Clint Eastwood did in films. I find myself often winding on an imaginary scene whereby the hero, square-jawed, heroically leaving his love bumps into a young thing on the corner of the street and slopes off to a hotel room with her. Or he rescues everyone, swaggers away, steps off the kerb and gets hit by a bus. What? OK doctor, coming. Sorry have to go-medication time. 'Here he comes, it's Cathy's clown...'

  217. allybear

    Apr 16, 2014, 10:56 #49660

    Kerryman Gooner i feel your spot on and he will stay. It was hard work last night but a deserved win. First half was rubbish. I still have a slight hope that he may decide to go if he wins the cup. That wont be an easy game though.

  218. Kerryman Gooner

    Apr 16, 2014, 10:41 #49659

    Badarse, Thanks for your insight. I certainly did not mean to imply anything sinister in my speculation that Wenger will stay. I think he is a very honourable gentleman. I am just intrigued by his desire to stay and the risk he is taking with his great legacy. I was just wondering was he motivated by a combination of money and utter self belief, when I just think he needs to realise he should leave with dignity at the end of this season. But my hunch is that he will stay, because something makes him almost addicted to this job.

  219. JAMIE

    Apr 16, 2014, 10:38 #49658

    Some good points but also a lot of hot air and WOB talk.

  220. Aylesbury Gooner

    Apr 16, 2014, 10:28 #49656

    Good report Kevin just a thought but what with Poldi's two goals from playing on the left I wonder how many goals he would have got if playing in a more central role, just a thought.@ Wenger out comment about the victim scousers attacking your Man city friends especially this weekend when every match around the country show the upmost respect for the 96. Probably claim they were the victims in all this as usual.

  221. Kenny

    Apr 16, 2014, 10:26 #49655

    Three vital points for what? Pushing closer to winning the title?.No of course not. Its all about getting into a tournament which we dont have a pray of winning,lining the pockets of the board and Wenger,Keeping a clueless manager with average players at the club.Three vital points for this once great to achieve its goal again of finishing FOURTH.Its pathetic.As long as Wenger stays nothing will change.And to all those who say who can we get who will do a better job please take a look at Liverppol.7th last season 1st now.Arsenal have gone stale under Wenger.I hope Arsenal win the FA cup but i want us out of the top 4 to force Wenger out once and for all

  222. BADARSE

    Apr 16, 2014, 10:08 #49654

    Thanks Kevin, good music. Welcome home radfordkennedy. westlower, chris is asking a racing-related question on previous article page. Kerryman Gooner your guess's are very reasonable, probably very close to the truth, but, and you do expect a 'but', don't you? 'he likes the cash'-who wouldn't like £7-8 million p.a? 'arrogant enough to think he is the only one that can manage Arsenal'. People have an innate belief in themselves or should, unless the system has beaten it out of them and crushed their spirit. I think I could manage my Grandson's team better than the current manager- I still believe, and have the foolishness within to dream. Why should any man or woman be different, and in all circumstances? Pure conjecture that the motives for staying are somehow sinister, because of your perception of an individual. If he was your Dad-Grandad, would you feel and say the same, I wonder?

  223. radfordkennedy

    Apr 16, 2014, 9:56 #49653

    Morning all,just made it back in time to see the game last night,I thought rosicky really put a shift in and really tried to keep the tempo up,2nd half thought cazorla tried to do the same and the team played well,hats off to Pod and the Hammers No7 whose name escapes me for not going down when Sagna took him halfway up his legs and claiming a penalty..how refreshing,well done that man

  224. smithy

    Apr 16, 2014, 9:54 #49652

    Fingers crossed palace can turn over the toffees tonight- they are certainly capable of it!As to Arsene- I am sure he is not the solution for our future as the modern game seems to have left him behind,but the board...

  225. Red Member

    Apr 16, 2014, 9:43 #49650

    here is an interesting stat - if we win our final 4 games we will finish on 79 points and this will be the 5th most successful season (points wise) under Wenger. Expect this line to be trotted out when he signs the new contract as proof of progress. what it actually underlines is the poor quality of the Premier League. Competitive? what a joke

  226. WENGER OUT

    Apr 16, 2014, 9:36 #49649

    Listening to Arsenal TV online, they said "now Arsenal can focus on their ultimate goal of qualifying for the champions league" - Ultimate goal FFS! Says it all really! Significantly, I thought Wenger didn't look too tortured when West Ham scored last night, perhaps this is a sign that he has already decided to go and can finally relax a little? On a side note, I found out that 3 of my Man City supporting friends were jumped by a much larger group of scousers outside the Liverpool stadium on Sunday and sustained injuries... that on a weekend when all the other clubs around the country showed the dignity to pay such respectful homage to their fallen 96. You stay classy Liverpool.

  227. Bard

    Apr 16, 2014, 9:35 #49648

    Fair comment Kev. I thought the second balf was our best for sometime. At last I was able to see Kallstrom and he did look compact and tidy. I also thought Poldi 's finishing was world class, more please. I don't agree that Wenger will go Kev. He makes the club too much money. As I have posted, the problem is how to spin his new contract to us. But where I do agree is that the tide has turned against him. Anything other than a revolution in our buying policy and ambition will not be acceptable to the fans.

  228. Kerryman Gooner

    Apr 16, 2014, 9:26 #49647

    Right now, Arsenal as an organisation are far more fascinating to watch than the tippy tap on the pitch. Wenger knows more about football and Arsenal than the current board will ever know. The board don't know what to do with him. So they kick to touch and offer him a two year deal. Personally, I suspect he likes the cash and is arrogant enough to think he is the only one that can manage Arsenal. I bet he will stay. Sadly, he has overstayed his welcome and damaged a great legacy.