Procession

Online Ed: Arsenal make light work of Newcastle



Procession


Alan Pardew’s declaration, after his most recent touchline ban, that he would watch games in future without leaving his seat in the technical area lasted a matter of minutes. However, whether he will be at Newcastle long enough to get another ban for the next incident that stirs his rage is debatable. His players have nothing to play for and are in a comfort zone that they have no intention of leaving until next season at the earliest. If there is a feeling that change is needed at Arsenal, it is definitely a priority at St James’s Park.

All of which made the Gunners’ task that much easier, although for the first half an hour of the game, it felt like we were watching two teams with nothing to play for. It was lacklustre stuff, although that has often been the way with Arsenal, especially last season. They are a team that seem to generally perform better after the interval. However, last night, two of the goals came in the 15 minute period before half time.

The first was a set piece goal, always a pleasure to see, and the team should take advantage of such situations more. Too often a free kick in the opposition half is played short to continue tikka-takka build-up. However, the value of getting the ball into the opposition box when the opportunity is there for centre backs to join proceedings was evidenced by Laurent Koscielny’s goal last night. For the second, Olivier Giroud, who spurned a number of chances to score over the course of the game before netting his team’s third, was twice foiled by the keeper before the ball fell to Mesut Ozil for a tap in, which he did not deem worthy of much of a celebration.

Ozil had one of those Bergkamp matches where he did not seem to do very much at all, but what he did proved very effective, scoring one and setting up Giroud’s goal with an excellent cross. The value of getting wide and putting a decent ball into the box was seen more than once last night and it is something the Gunners need to do more against teams that pack the middle making penetration nigh on impossible.

The other main point to note about the game was another excellent display by Aaron Ramsey, who is playing himself back into top form after his return from injury. It augurs well for the FA Cup Final where his box to box style will prove a real asset on the Wembley pitch.

Although the win does not guarantee fourth spot, it would take a remarkable sequence of results to deny Arsene Wenger his 17th crack at the Champions League. And the feeling is, after his recent words, that he will remain for at least a further two years. The last three seasons have seen a final points tally of 68 (2010/11), 70 (2011/12) and 73 (2012/13). Arsenal have 73 points with two matches remaining and assuming they do not lose both, the statistics indicate that the club are on a gradual course of improvement. However, if they do finish with 79, it is likely to be seven points short of the side that wins the league. That it will also probably mean fourth place demonstrates how open the title race was this season. Given that the Gunners dropped so many points due to injuries (Ramsey and Walcott) and fatigue (Giroud) during the February and March period, valid questions need to be asked about the depth of the squad and whether the club were better served by having millions in the bank as opposed to purchasing more players in both the summer 2013 and January 2014 transfer windows. Of the four new arrivals (including a loan signing), only Mesut Ozil actually cost any sort of fee.

The club’s modus operandi when it comes to transfer dealings – given the amount of money at their disposal – needs a drastic overhaul. Hard questions need to be asked of Ivan Gazidis at the annual supporters’ Q&A event at the season’s end, with no excuses or waffle accepted. The man is simply not doing his job unless his job is to ensure underachievement. If Arsene Wenger is jeopardizing negotiations, the CEO needs to grow some bollocks and remove him from proceedings after he has identified his targets. The manager should not be in charge of the transfer and wages budget, an approach that leads to the likes of Denilson and Bendtner being criminally overpaid for their contributions before they have proven worth their pay packets.

Certainly, should the FA Cup be won, a rosy picture can be painted, but looking at supporter mood, largely shaped by the heavy away defeats and the inability to beat the likes of Everton, Chelsea, Manchester United and Manchester City at home, this season has the feeling of drawing a game after being ahead. Last season ended on a high because it was the opposite – coming from behind when all was lost. However, there is no dispute that Arsenal put themselves in a great position to win this season’s title by winning many of the games against lesser teams. But, all this has ultimately proved is their competence as flat track bullies. Wins against better teams, especially when it really matters, are rare. It is something that needs to be addressed, and on the assumption that Wenger will remain the manager, then I can only see it happening if the club get seriously active in the transfer market and – critically – buy the right type of characters. Additionally, tactically, they have to approach difficult matches with more of a gameplan. Start off with a determination not to lose and take it from there. They are capable of doing this at home (Chelsea, Man Utd this season), so why not on the road, where they are far, far too open too early?

However, the fear is that this time next season, we will be looking at another battle for fourth place. Some of the faces will have changed, but the lack of big game mentality required to gain those precious extra points will remain. Still, at least, we hope, Arsenal will have won a trophy for the first time in nine seasons by then. If the manager cannot outwit Hull City at Wembley, then he would have to do the honourable thing and give someone else a chance to work with the substantial resources at hand. Good luck to all those in the FA Cup final ballot who will find out their fate tomorrow.

The current issue of The Gooner will be on sale at the West Brom game this Sunday and can also be bought online here. It’s a 64 page special priced at £3 and includes an interview with Sol Campbell and special sections on the 10th anniversary of the Invincibles and Arsenal in the Cup Final.

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  1. Bard

    May 01, 2014, 9:59 #50599

    Enjoyed Chelsea getting stuffed. Problem with excuse number 2 ( number 1 injuries) we can't compete cos of the money now defunct after last night. Westie yes i read we're after Bender. Should take us a couple of years to sort out that deal out. How's his injury record? He not our kind of player unless he spends large chunks of his career in the injury room. The size discussion is too limited. It's not size we need it's power.

  2. BADARSE

    May 01, 2014, 9:57 #50598

    Morning 24601. Oh that explains why julesd is as she is. Vegetarians have corrupted views of life, and it affects their spouses! Am thinking of starting a virtual cookery class in the autumn so she would be a valuable asset. 'Welll, they're ownlee lentils Rick, and when you buy a big bag you get a freee pair of sandals with them.' Ah the Young Ones! Wouldn't I get up early if I lived with you? Well the camping trip Ron, you and I took was enlightening. Ron playing his guitar and singing around the campfire was nice, but birds dropping from the sky should have said something to us. You on your prayer mat was a funny site to me until you began levitating, of course you trying to establish which direction the Grove lay in was amusing, especially as after a few scotches you couldn't even get into the tent and had a fight with the tent flap when we turned in for the night. And I apologise again for keeping you both awake for hours with my chatter. Though did you ever decide on my suggestion that Coca Cola and Pepsi Cola are the same company? What fun we had. I remember in the morning us two holding Ron upside down, rubbing his knees together and setting light to his clogs for our campfire. Ah, virtual memories, almost as good as the real thing. By the way julesd, I make the best rice in the world.

  3. Westlower

    May 01, 2014, 8:53 #50594

    @Ron, Totally agree. Creating a successful team is all about getting the right balance. It's a fine chemistry perfecting it. Quite often a manager stumbles across his best team by chance. Most teams remain a few players short of the ideal but that's what makes football so absorbing. On a given day the team with limited ability can put one over the talented aristocrats. Another report today that Lars Bender is AFC's main transfer target to add that element of physicality to the midfield. Have to smile when hearing about Chelsea's lack of decent strikers. It can't do the confidence of Torres, Ba & Eto'o much good when Maureen continually berates them. Hardly good management to air his dirty washing in public. @Badarse, julesd is also a veggie! Wouldn't you get up early if you lived with me?

  4. BADARSE

    May 01, 2014, 7:15 #50593

    julesd what do you get up to so early in the morning? You two aren't the ones who orchestrated the horsemeat plot are you? There is an analogy in there somewhere, (oh susej, here he goes again). Us two are vegetarians. As a balancing offering I am wont to say I have eaten almost everything that had a face, and in many different ways. So it was a firm decision. Likewise in being an England fan, being present in '66 and all that, to a person who recognised long ago that international football was a dinosaur and for years have never watched a game. These two aspects in a way mirror each other. So here is the jump to link horsemeat and AFC. Nothing wrong with eating horse, if you eat flesh. Why chicken and not squirrel? Goat not lion? Cow not panda? It is because people get used to a certain mode of expectations and it becomes the norm. A perception that AFC are rich and therefore should win things leaves many disgruntled. They have tasted glory and want a steady diet of it. When the supply dries up so the bleating starts. They are happy to eat horse unknowingly and did, then show outrage when they feel they have been duped or cheated. Personally I think there is much strength in terms of a distillation view of all comments regarding AFC. There is a case to be answered, yet it is a simple charge which has alternative views and examples to refute it. The underlying current of malcontent is frightening. I would be concerned in leaving my grandsons in the care of many yelling and wronged people. I would love to see this attitude taken to the establishment though-that is needed, but simpler to bend the knee to all that is wrong in our society and focus on one French gentleman, and an inanimate football club. A bit cowardly? Yes it is, but certainly very narrow, especially if I use a sense of mathematics and decide that our societies problems go unchallenged and our club isn't. It must be the same people. It would be too coincidental that the campaigners are not only challenging the way of AFC-or one man-but also working in a similar mode for the general betterment of all. That is a laugh. There is a GH song I would offer as a mantra to most of these people, 'I, Me, Mine!' If I hear in conversation someone extolling a view which sounds 'good' to my ears they prick up. Then if the person gets hot under the collar, starts in a sweeping allegations style and drifts towards the edge of rational behaviour I back away. I can then hear the inconsistencies uttered as I walk away and realise once more I have assessed and decided on the correct action. So too with the 'Anti' people. Re-reading a few recent posts I notice that MARCUS has begun shouting again-and are the same things he always shouts about, (that would wake my grandsons up if he was baby-sitting). And many of the other posts are laced with anger, insults and just plain offensiveness. Metaphorically speaking at this point I would walk away. Right now I remain as there is a job to do in contesting, or at least offering a reasoned alternative view. Good old Arsenal.

  5. julesd

    May 01, 2014, 5:55 #50592

    Gaz - no problem now off to the kitchen, ha ha!

  6. DW Thomas

    May 01, 2014, 4:47 #50590

    Ozil is class and really needs someone like Suarez or Aguero to feed those lovely through balls. He has a sublime touch but I still would love to see him more daring in the final third. Yet, Ramsey for me is our best player with heart, grit, and determination. He does not have Ozil's skill, but he makes up for it in pure athleticism. Had we both of them earlier in February and March, we would be closer to the top. So, Wenger's gamble on a thin squad staying healthy was the opposite of wise. It was a miscalculation of giant proportions. We should be getting our transfers done pre-WC so we can start preseason on the right foot. No excuses anymore. Maximize what we are capable of or we need an overhaul. Maybe we do anyway. Again, we only need a few key pieces to complete a title winning team. The Q & A needs to provide some real answers to why we collapsed again and what will be rectified.

  7. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 23:06 #50582

    Yes, but Westie lad. those relatively little un s were combined with some brutes and bruisers plus a hacker here and there too. Its just balance really, as i think jj said. Arsenes overdosed us on his lightweight players. There are some wonderful little players in every era, but they do need their 'insurance man/men' to flourish in my view mate.

  8. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 22:46 #50581

    Badarse - Totally right mate. I wasnt a fan of the AG rule when they brought it in and never have been. I think it some thing of a knee jerk reaction to cattenaccio which in time would have become unfashionable or either fathomed by opponents in just the same way as has occurred with the emphasis Clubs give to staying 0-0 at home as you say.The negativity has returned but from the opposite direction hasnt it. The rules of the game are simple and shdt be interfered with. Its like the back pass rule. Yes the use of it was abused but only by some Clubs. It still looks barmy to me seeing these keepers having to be quasi outfield players. Bad trends even out i always feel, like flared trousers and handlebar moustaches mate!!

  9. BADARSE

    Apr 30, 2014, 22:00 #50578

    You know Ron the away goal was developed to encourage away sides to come out of their shells, as defensive football was suffocating the game. With the evolution of the game the bias has moved and you have a home side kind of relaxed when they meet a stonewall defence, as Atletico did with Chelsea last week. Sure they had the emphasis on winning but Chelsea solely relied on defending and possibly a break away goal. It didn't happen. I was feeling that if Chelsea had to attack at the Bridge then Atletico might nick one, well they nicked three. That away rule has now been turned on it's head in the first game, with the home side now reluctant to concede. Good luck to them. Hope they beat Real just for their fans.

  10. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 21:49 #50576

    Great for Madrid as a City. I wdt write AM off either, would you Badarse?. As for Chelsea - Mourinho out! Specialist in failure!

  11. BADARSE

    Apr 30, 2014, 21:19 #50574

    And what a squad it would be 24601. When I was fourteen I bumped into Johnny MacLeod near Liverpool St. Station on the Saturday morning-we were away to Ipswich that Saturday, so he was clearly about to go into the station and catch the rattler up to the ground. I remember being a little uncomfortable at being a little taller than my idol so bent my knees a little. How funny. On the subject of old players, met a lady today, she was introduced to me as the ex-wife of John McGovern and did I know of him. Think I knew about him than she ever did. Whoops Atletico just scored their third. Both finalists from the same city, what a unique record! Seems like lots of 'top' men are getting tactics wrong just lately.

  12. Westlower

    Apr 30, 2014, 21:08 #50573

    AFC Short-Arses (relatively speaking): Alex James, Jimmie Logie, Freddie Cox, Joe Haverty, George Eastham, Joe Baker, Johnny MacLeod, George Armstrong, Frank McLintock, Eddie Kelly, Bob McNab, Alan Ball, Jimmy Robertson, Liam Brady, Graham Rix, John Hollins, Kenny Sansom, Brian Marwood, Mickey Thomas, Kevin Richardson, Anders Limpar, Ray Parlour, Lee Dixon, Mark Overmars, Silvinho, Sylvain Wiltord, Gio Van Bronkhorst, Nelson Vivas, Freddie Ljungberg, Cesc Fabregas, Samir Nasri, Alex Hleb, Eduardo, Thomas Rosicky, Santi Cazorla, Theo Walcott, Jack Wilshire.

  13. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 19:46 #50570

    Ill read that Gaz. Thank you.

  14. Gaz

    Apr 30, 2014, 17:37 #50568

    @Ron: You seen Le Grove today? He talks about the press and how they make life easy for the Club. Worth a read fella...

  15. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 17:32 #50567

    Westie - No worries mate. We re pretty used to each other on here now aren't we. jules will learn! Ill always step down off the 'high horse' when ive been on it. Blimey mate, you must have some trouble with julesd. I thought my partner was a firebrand when riled, but at least i can hide from her when needed as she's miles away! Ha. Respect buddy. To jules too for putting her neck on the line on here. PS Love Raddie. Met him 4 or 5 times. A gent he is too. 2nd 'hero'. 1 behind Joe Baker!!

  16. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 17:18 #50566

    Westie - Midgetry has been an issue for years for those who've seen and recognised its failure. Conditions here aren't conducive to tiny lightweights with our culture of football. Its very germanic here. I always cite Fabregas as one who would have been a world beater here had he have had physical size.Wenger has tried to change a culture and has railed against physical power. His buys are often lightweights that top Clubs wont touch. Its costs real money to buy power and often those type of players cant explain why they have it and others dont. Few players become top class without it. Messi for one is a powerful lad. His skill disguises it.Look at him next time you see him and watch him fend of players with his upper body. Mortals like Cazorla and Wally look the same size but collapse if a player as much as farts on them. Thats why top Clubs and the best Coaches dont want them. Vieira, a hatchet man? He was tough, never hatchet. Ron Harris was hatchet. That Prem Lge hasnt seen a hatchet man since its inception. Flamini is pretty feeble too. He talks a hard game though. As to Gary Nev. Hes a top lad as he was a top player. Do you really think pundits shape views to that extent? I spoke to two quite well known lads the other day in a Manchester Five live studio. One still plays, the other not and does some TV for ITV. Very enlightening from the player but the TV man played the straight line as they have to do. General thrust was Arsenal is a known easy going, safe environment for many players who actually surprise other players by simply being at the Club. No names mentioned by said player, but he said there are 5 for certain and 6 really who other teams always seek to intimidate, as theyre pretty sure it works and has done for years. Player in question has played us many times with some success. We don't intimidate as we once did. Its vital we have to if we re to raise our bar. Id like to hear the real views of many of the pros and pundits with the PC shackles fully off.

  17. BADARSE

    Apr 30, 2014, 17:14 #50565

    Ron overlooked the response to my post, just saw the apology and fired off a quickie to you, didn't even see westlower's to me. Anyway yes to most of what you say. The string and cocoa tins was done on the bombed debris, living on the top floor was a bit difficult to speak to neighbours ha ha. Never saw crossbows though. Spangles, Picnic Bar, Banana Split toffee, Bev or Camp coffee, wow! Hi 24601. The connecting thread wasn't lost on me. We have always attracted the wrong sort of interest from officials or authorities. It is inherited I think. It isn't necessarily extreme, just a state of mind as a youngster. Most outgrow the idea as they mature but a few allow the feeling to simmer on the back burner. The feeling they have inherited is a negative one towards AFC. They then let it trickle into the consciousness of whoever they can taint. The big boys were made for the officiating clowns. A big bloke, a crunching tackle and the denouement a cannon on his chest! Talking of size my pal went to Highbury when Bergy signed. He managed to get up close and came away with the storyline that he was big and had a really strong frame. The Dutch are all about two metres tall anyway. My wife asked me who I was Butch or the Kid? I liked the idea but couldn't decide-loved both actors, and as men, so I think we are a little of both if that's OK with you? ha ha.

  18. Westlower

    Apr 30, 2014, 17:12 #50564

    @Ron, Your honour is restored in our household, thanks! Please feel free to kick me anytime as I thrive on a tussle. We completely understand your point about a Vieira type in midfield because he had the biggest impact we've ever seen on an AFC debut. Of course Diaby was always going to be our strength & power in midfield. If there's any justice he'll still get his career back on track. He ran the show at Anfield last season so lets hope we see more of that. Midfielder Lars Bender has also been touted as a new signing. In life, always expect the unexpected.

  19. jjetplane

    Apr 30, 2014, 17:07 #50563

    Take it with one hand and give it out with the other. I have never had Sky and have never heard Gary Neville and as he was up red nose would not bother. Have occasionally heard Keano when I look at the TV for 2-3 hrs a week and commend him as a good man of Cork who sums up the present Arsenal nicely. Something along the lines 'what a load of feckin eegits...' I humbly quote. Raddy was a giant it's just that some tall people are really very small. Now then - Jubblies - orange or cherryade. No one mentioned ice cream floats and digging it out of the glass on a sunny sunday morning, before I turned into a raving agnostical visionary with an audience of .... Where are they? Slug guns we used in run outs and you learnt how to hide well. Crisps with the little blue bag are back in vogue as human life runs out of things to do or make. Now potato puffs and those chocolate biscuits where the wrapping made a marvellous jetplane! Conkers anyone. Is it Ok to say there was a great train spotting platform in Finsbury Park. Played a lot of football in that place on the cinder. For a treat we would go to market rd prior to the astro. Rubber knives and swords soon went out the window as we started throwing chairs at each other .... Bloody kids.

  20. Gaz

    Apr 30, 2014, 17:00 #50562

    Theres a woman on here? How did this happen? Get back to the kitchen where you belong and leave this place to 'the boys'... (before I get a rebuke too thats a joke)...

  21. BADARSE

    Apr 30, 2014, 16:55 #50561

    Well done Ron, now get back to the first part of my memory lane post.

  22. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 16:42 #50560

    julesd - apologies for stepping beyond the line a tad earlier today. Ive been rebuked for it by the Lone Ranger and Tonto s been on as well (Westie), but seeing as your Westie's owner and a woman, ill apologise. I was a bit sharp towards you admittedly. Sorry.PS Im sure you ll have a go at me some time. Feel free when you do lass.

  23. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 16:31 #50559

    BADARSE - Always in a good mood mate. Yes, maybe i battered jules a bit.Its always sarcasm from that particular quarter though and it does grate at times and we all need broad shoulders on here at times, as you know. Snake belts mate. Made me laugh. We all had them didn't we. A lot of us kids even had flick knives too.Sheath knives were great for making the cattie 'V' and pruning branches the make the bows you mentioned. No kidding, some of the long bows we used to make from willow branches would have got us front lined in Edward 'Longshanks' army in another age! We used to make the arrows and tip them with lead points, we nicked from a nearby scrap yard. Thinking back we were so 'tooled up' what with air guns etc etc. A few of the kids had crude crossbows that used to be bought from toy stores believe it or not. They were potent. Did you used to make telephones out of cocoa tins and extend thin wires to other kids bedrooms? Used to hold the wire in to the can with a nail. Kites as well. Mad on em. Box kites, any kites!

  24. Westlower

    Apr 30, 2014, 16:19 #50558

    @Badarse, Thanks for defending Jules. She was just trying to make the point that whenever AFC play 'hatchet men' in midfield they have had their share of cards. Flamini & Vieira spring to mind. When we met Big Raddy at the races he wasn't as tall as Jules imagined him to be. We seem to live in a Gary Neville world at present, whenever Gary speaks, many on here echo his thoughts. The present theme is AFC midgets, but such is the power of the pundits.

  25. BADARSE

    Apr 30, 2014, 15:55 #50557

    Hi Ron, yes sheath knives. They invariably were light tan, sometimes darker leather, with the bone-handle style. Had them strapped to our little belts, you know the ones. Those which followed coloured stripes around the belt, often red and green, linked together at the front with two little inter-locking snakes, remember? Oh yes the Jubblys popped out often didn't they? Ha ha, little grubby fingers picked them up, wiped the grit or dust off on our jumpers or shirts and squeezed them back into the pack. The kids around our way came up with the most devilish device, the bow and arrows. We would buy a runner bean cane and split it at the ends, tie strong twine to it and we had quite a powerful bow. Pea sticks were next. Sharpened ends and plasticine squashed around the near top as a weight. We could fire them up to the top of our flats, six stories high. They could stick in wooden doors, with the ends occasionally breaking, and re-sharpened. My younger brother still bares a scar beside his kneecap where I got him. It makes me go cold thinking that we indiscriminately fired them everywhere and sometimes at each other. Water pistol fads, pea-shooters, marbles, fag card games, Tin Can Tommy in the streets, and of course footie. Twenty kids chasing an old beat-up tennis ball. Dirty faces, sweat streaked, but with permanent smiles attached. Just a point though fella, think you clearly over-egged it to julesd. Her retort wasn't strong at all, and your one just stepped across the line, perhaps only by a little toe, but it did cross it. You don't have to agree but in a better mood now you might re-read and agree. No flowers required but a 'sorry' would be nice, you are big enough, I know that chum. Why I've already apologised once today on here.

  26. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 14:32 #50556

    BADARSE - Most annoying was when the Jubbly was down to half size and we would use fingers to ease it up to suck it and it shot out onto the floor. Mind you, still picked it up and sucked on it more often than not! Didn't you get into sheath knives? We all had them and were deadly when we played 'chicken' or 'splits'. We could throw them like any red Indian i tell you now! We were all into air rifles as well, Diana 15 was mine. JJ - VALLIANT - 'Johnny Cougar' and was the 'Steel Claw' in it or was that in the 'Tiger and Hurricane'? Brilliant stuff!

  27. BADARSE

    Apr 30, 2014, 13:53 #50553

    Spud gun long gone jjetplane. You had to depress the barrel into a potato, didn't you, then it fired? Great times. Catapults made a show in new tough dark green plastic. I was always in awe with some kids' 'catties'. Home made, tough stumpy wood, heavy gauge rubber and a leather pad. They were killing machines! Smith's crisps in a clear packet, where you had to root around for the little blue twist of salt. On occasions utter despair when the salt twist was missing! A nearby shop used to sell frozen 'Jubblys'. A tetra style pack, in a torqued style, (don't know the shape description-geometry was my weakest maths strand), which he would pull from the chest freezer. Really disappointing on a hot day when we urchins went there only to find he had none frozen enough or ready. I can still remember the sheer joy of sliding my teeth down the side of the Jubbly, scraping off a small mouthful of broken ice-Slush Puppy was a convenient newcomer, which came too late for this little boy.

  28. jjetplane

    Apr 30, 2014, 13:36 #50551

    DJ thanks for clearing that one up for us. Mandrake must be having a day off in an opium den with the spirit of Byron. Been there many times myself in those days of sweetness and light so can distantly empathise. BADARSE The Valiant on sundays and have you still got a spud gun? I wish I did. Aah you see the magical (green) 56 surfaces. Batman cards with the chewing gum. Pain killas .......

  29. BADARSE

    Apr 30, 2014, 13:30 #50550

    FPGooner, I liked that post too.

  30. FPGooner

    Apr 30, 2014, 13:21 #50548

    No edginess, no worries.

  31. BADARSE

    Apr 30, 2014, 13:11 #50547

    FPGooner, sorry for the confusing post, though it does give me an opportunity to say despite it's edginess I quite liked your post to me, quite funny. I was alluding to the rhetorical question posed to westlower as in 'so you think we are in the second tier'. I see a sliding scale depiction, pyramid if you like. The two money clubs, sliding along into the following group, of which we are well placed then descending order down to the strugglers.

  32. DJ

    Apr 30, 2014, 13:06 #50546

    Be Careful What You Wish For: So your point is it is better to have no ambition and be happy with what you've got (ie: Fourth Place!)and eventually die of boredom?

  33. BADARSE

    Apr 30, 2014, 13:01 #50545

    jjetplane I used to get Beano, Dandy, Beezer and Topper. I was a lucky boy. In our flats we had comic-swapping. All the kids had piles of comics. I would here my monicker being called-we lived on the top floor. I'd look out and down below a kid would be standing holding comics under his arm. I'd shout agreement and the youngster would trudge up to our flat. He'd come in, we'd kneel on the floor and it would go like this as I turned his comics, 'Read it! Read it! Not read it! Read it! Not sure! Read it! Finally I'd wait for him to breeze through my collection. I'd have six he might have five new ones. I'd then have to deliberate and put one back. The deal was done. Couldn't really understand the interest in Batman or Green Lantern because to me Superman was by far the best. When the turn of comics was exhausted I would take them down East Lane Market on a Sunday. A shop would buy them at a knock down price, but you'd have enough to buy a couple of new ones. Radio Fun? Comic Cuts?

  34. FPGooner

    Apr 30, 2014, 12:58 #50544

    BADARSE, rather than leaving a cryptic and to me, nonsensical 'FP Gooner, try thinking pyramid, not tiers'. Perhaps you think Wenger is a pyramid salesman, you may have a point. Perhaps, you think we would be better suited to winning the Premier league in Egypt. Perhaps, Wenger's tactics and strategy were purloined from Tutankhamun. Please elucidate and I will give you my response.

  35. Be Careful What You Wish For

    Apr 30, 2014, 12:42 #50543

    Arnie the apple hung from a tree in an orchard a mile wide. And every day the pickers would come and haul dozens of apples inside. They'd pick the prettiest of the bunch, filling their baskets and pails. But they always passed by Arnie, ignoring his whines and wails. "Please pick me!", Arnie would cry each time the pickers sauntered by. "I want to go inside with you!", cried Arnie till he turned bright blue. But the pickers ignored him day after day, while Arnie hung there in dismay, trying to nurse his shattered pride, dying to be picked to be taken inside. Each new dawn he'd do a trick like spinning around on his twig. But the picky pickers never stopped for apples that weren't big or juicy or red or bright or sweet. Poor Arnie was none of these things. He wasn't completely quite full grown and he had some nicks and dings. He dreamed what it was like inside; lights and music all around. Arnie just wanted to go there so badly he flung himself to the ground. The next day the pickers came along and saw him lying there. They took him inside and Arnie thought, "This is it! I'm finally there!" But when Arnie the Apple looked around he realized his dreams were false, 'cause in less than 15 minutes he was Arnie Applesauce.

  36. jjetplane

    Apr 30, 2014, 12:35 #50541

    Funny - got Overmars on the brain today (sports director at AJax) and he, like Pires were the two of the best players i have ever seen in action. Of course when we talk of the bigger player we mean having the ball playing giants such as Petit and Viera marshalling the pitch allowing mesrs Overmars to do things like win games at Old Trafford. Who could that now? Even when Utd were/are in meltdown and progressive teams like Everton are putting big nails in creaking coffins. Cannot imagine what Viera thinks of Sanogo or the blanket pint-sized midfield, but I bet it would begin with a wry smile. Balance is what is called for and watching tiny man Modric boss a CL semi with jurassic type runners in front of him tells you all you need to know. Things happen fast in football. Ask Pep Wenger or Arsene Guadiola for their answers this week ..... These pain killers really are too much. Morning Diaby. Bang on the nail TONY EVANS. Lot of respect your way. Now the comics. Mine is The Dandy everytime. Desperate Who?

  37. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 30, 2014, 12:33 #50540

    Some fans were holding up a placard or sheet on Monday night with five or six questions on i didn't get the chance to read them all but two of them were lack of tactical nous, and financial stability, out of the six questions only one box was ticked no prizes for guessing which one, it wasn't clear if they were Arsenal fans but if not Arsenal and Newcastle really do have something in common.

  38. BADARSE

    Apr 30, 2014, 12:24 #50537

    FP Gooner, try thinking pyramid, not tiers. julesd- I see the Deadwood stage, so it must mean 'Annie Get Your Gun!', and I think the Beano was a great comic, Smiffy seems omnipresent at times on this site, 24601 is my Danny. Remember going to the Saturday morning flicks this one morning at the Elephant and Castle and a boy nearby had a new comic-it looked great! It was the Beezer. It came out in January 1956, which fits because you had to be seven to get in, and I was. The organ would rise out of the orchestra pit, and the organist would begin playing tunes. The words would come up on the screen and we would all sing along. Good training for me, for what was to come in the North Bank.

  39. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 12:23 #50536

    Tony - Good point. Does it allude to letting Mr Usmanov in or has his spectre proved too much to allow it? I'm guessing it has perhaps. Its strange lot, the Board room there. The size of his holding should merit a place upstairs surely.I ve long thought all isn't rosy in the garden up there anyway and for years, there's been talk that AW inst everybody's favourite Son at Director level. It ll all unravel in due course Tony.

  40. Tony Evans

    Apr 30, 2014, 12:08 #50532

    Ron - I can see where you are coming from re the need for a footballing head at director level; I personally wouldn't trust Wenger up there though. What we desperately need is an owner that sees Arsenal as more than just a business proposition, and until that happens no footballing head 'upstairs' would make much of a difference would it?

  41. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 11:58 #50531

    Westie - Respect was shown to the comments re the 3 veterans. It ended at the ridiculous 'big players = red cards' assertion and in my view properly so, seeing as any poster who didn't agree with the prior points made in the thread had already been told to clear off and 'read the beano'. Respect's a two way street and julesd should practice what you preach perhaps?.Its bound to be thin on the ground though where assertions are made that contain so much that is simply plain daft and then, to make the comment even dafter to be suffixed by the dismissive reproach to others.

  42. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 11:44 #50530

    Bard - True, but why ignore the need for a proper goalkeeper. We've not stopped being a selling Club mate, its just been in hibernation. The next batch of sales are being packaged as we speak. I mentioned your point in fact in my post 53517.

  43. Westlower

    Apr 30, 2014, 11:42 #50529

    @Ron, You open post 53590 with the words 'with respect' and then proceed to belittle julesd with your last two sentences. Distinct lack of 'respect' in your summing up.

  44. Bard

    Apr 30, 2014, 11:33 #50528

    CT Gooner: good post mate, the devils in the detail. We need a new right back, a DM, a top class striker and probably a new centre back. Total cost conservatively £100m+ wages. It isn't going to happen. Previous windows suggest maybe a second tier striker and a couple of young unknowns. We had an opportunity to nail it this jan window and Wenger blew it. We won't get another chance. We are a second tier football club these days and the gap will just get bigger. Once the players realise that is what we are we're back to being a selling club.

  45. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 10:46 #50521

    julesd - 53571. With respect, that's a poor retort. Armstrong, Overmars and esp big Raddie all had physical strength and power to spare. Height alone in a player doesn't equate to strength and power. in fact too much height more often than not dilutes it. Coaches are wary of excessive height. 5 feet 10 to 5 feet 11/6 feet is an excellent height. As for the conflation of red cards and size? Deary me, what's your next nugget of wisdom? Utter limp wristed tosh!

  46. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 10:26 #50520

    Morning Tony. Ha. No worries mate. Ive seen a lot of counter arguments to AW going upstairs, both on here and talking to folk and i accept, its a minority view and im open to change my mind on it. My main thrust behind my view is that the Boardroom so badly needs a football head in there. Maybe AW is the wrong one and i can see why many think it is, but its a lot of 'Arsenal experience' whatever our take on him is now as a Coach to cast aside.

  47. Tony Evans

    Apr 30, 2014, 10:11 #50518

    Ron - You have summed it up very well in explaining what is so lacking from today's Arsenal. You and I are usually singing from the same hymn sheet. One exception though was your wish to see Wenger move upstairs - not with you on that one I am afraid.

  48. FPGooner

    Apr 30, 2014, 10:00 #50516

    Westlower, the thrust of your argument (and endless research)seems to be that 4th is better than 8th. There is no mention anywhere of winning anything or the desire to win anything. This 4th place, is it an arbitrary number or is it because UEFA have given England four places in the Champions league? what if that number becomes three? will 3rd place become the glittering seasonal target for AKBs? what if it becomes five places, then 5th place? so, it seems that sneaking into that last berth is your dream? you think that we belong in the second tier of English football and should be ecstatic at being asked to dine at the top table but not be able to taste any success? Do you think that any slight improvement on mediocrity should be enough for Arsenal Football Club?

  49. jeff wright

    Apr 30, 2014, 9:59 #50515

    GR, United had the league won last season with 5 games to spare when they trotted out at the Emirates to a guard of honour provided by our ticky tacky playing for 4th spot against AVB's spuds players. The point I was making was that the final points won by teams below the title winners do not always mean those sides were close to winning the league.United could ease off with 5 games to spare. You are only close to winning the league if you are still in with a chance of doing so on the last day.We are not in that position whereas the three sides above us could be possibly even G/D again deciding who are the champs. As regards the physical aspect of our squad it's obvious to those of us who don't need a visit to SpecSavers that when faced with opponents of a similar technical ability ,but with a bigger physical one ,that our smaller players struggle to beat them. The results against these sides says so and all of the waffling by Westie aka Julesd and Badarse does not change this fact. Wenger's over done the small technical player thingy ,but then again he never does do anything by halves does he?

  50. Tony Evans

    Apr 30, 2014, 9:58 #50514

    Westlower - not really no (a new manager is what I want) but the point I am trying to make is that at least there was some excitement generated, even if it was for a relegation scrap. This never ending cycle of finishing 4th, and the complete lack of faith in the manager to get us to the next level is dreadful and boring in the extreme.

  51. Ron

    Apr 30, 2014, 9:53 #50513

    Westie - Its right that nobody wants such a sequence of results. Football as a game was in a bad place those days wasn't it. It was dying on its feet. Comparing era s is hard though. Different times, different values, different times of our lives. I think what Tony is driving at is that notwithstanding those results and what they look like now with hindsight, the whole experience of football at Arsenal and going to matches then was still fun, still created nerves and still created excitement and tension. Todays sterile offerings don't, not for many of us. Its mundane and clinical. There's little passion in it. Its just about money, money, money. The results of a Club aren't the only criteria to gauge enjoyment. Ive s quite a few friends who follow lower Clubs who've won nothing for years and maybe never will, but the joy they still get from it is enviable. This team of ours (for me) is so ordinary, lacking in ambition and content in its mediocrity so i can see where Tony s coming from. Its maybe different for you mate, but im so glad i spend little on it these days. Far better things than football for me now. Its nice to keep the 'finger on its pulse' though all the same isnt it. I think in many way s and in fairness to him, Wenger is to a great extent a symptom of what football is now and not so much a cause of it, though it doesn't shake my view that things could be much better for Arsenal and the supporters (despite my take on football), without him rather than with him.

  52. Westlower

    Apr 30, 2014, 9:17 #50509

    @Tony Evans, A trip down memory lane for you back in the 76/77 season. In a period from Jan 22nd to April 2nd. Lost 0-2 Bristol City (A); Drew 0-0 Sunderland (H); Lost 0-1 Man City (A); Lost 0-3 Middlesborough (A); Lost 2-3 West Ham (H); Lost 1-2 Everton (A); Lost 1-4 Ipswich (H); Lost 1-2 West Brom (H); Lost 1-2 QPR (A); Drew 1-1 Stoke (A); Won Leicester 3-0 (H). AFC team that beat Leicester: Rimmer, Rice, Nelson, Powling, O'Leary; Young; Rix, Price, MacDonald, Stapleton, Armstrong. Matthews came on as sub for Powling. Tony, you surely can't want your club to return to those mediocre days? We finished 8th, winning 16 of our 42 league games, our points total was 43, which is equivalent to 63 today. This season we have 10 points more, winning 21 games from 6 games less. In 76/77 we were knocked out of the FA Cup 5th round by Middlesborough 1-4 (A) & League Cup 5th round by QPR 1-2 (A).

  53. Tony Evans

    Apr 30, 2014, 8:42 #50505

    Green Hut - mundane nothingness just about sums it up, mate, and even a relegation battle would almost be preferable. I remember a game in the mid 70s against Leicester, when we had lost a few on the bounce and were in real trouble at the lower end of the division. We won 3-0 (Rix made his debut and O'Leary scored twice I think) and the feeling of renewed hope and belief was brilliant. I can't remember feeling excited about Wenger's Arsenal for ages now because there is no hope left in me.

  54. BADARSE

    Apr 30, 2014, 7:51 #50504

    jeff can't carry this on beyond it's natural interest, but the 'little men' jibe is just that, a jibe. Sometimes the balance of a side changes, often drifting beyond an accepted level, for a many number of reasons. I know we have a few little guys in the shape of Ox, Theo, Aaron and Jack. I purposely mention these four. Should they be dismissed for bigger, and of course you generally mean taller? Yet Bendtner and Sanogo are tall, but they don't fit the remit either, do they? So we complete a circle. Per isn't tiny, nor Pod, Kosh, Nacho or even Mesut. So the argument becomes more specific. However when you pare it down it becomes a personal choice as in, 'I don't like Santi', or more evenly, 'Aaron, Santi and Ox are too small as a combination when playing as a unit'. It all becomes a little circumspect. Fabregas wasn't a powerhouse Vieira-type, but what he brought to Arsenal was so delightful I shall remember it fondly, always. Having said all that I would subscribe-in general-to a beefing up wherever or whenever possible. Am sure though that you wouldn't complain too much about diminutive players if Messi joined us in the summer. @Bernard Manning why hide behind an anonymous name, and why choose such an odious individual as the phoney name? You are just a very silly boy. @jjetplane not sure what you are smoking again but I just mentioned the fact that a previous post complimented Nasri, whilst jeff had scythed through a certain type. I was only drawing a connecting thread. Why you should tell me that there isn't anything wrong with change is perplexing. Why should I not agree with that, or do the ying and yang by saying sometimes it isn't wise to change. It's a superficial comment, just skimming over the surface. As for determining that I am a chap wanting to stick to a conservative and nice philosophical hole to fit things in is nonsense. Trying to control things on here? Don't make me laugh. I have long been aware that people generally do not change much, if at all so that exercise would be fruitless, and yes I know you will all be constantly calling for Arsene Wenger's removal, that is obvious. No change there, but you know there is nothing wrong with change-perhaps you should have a word with yourself? As often stated I like playing games and when the mood takes me I do-invariably there is a deeper or more subtle viewpoint couched in the gobbledegook.

  55. julesd

    Apr 30, 2014, 5:53 #50502

    Jeff Wright - you seem to have forgotten that when we had big physical players they were constantly sent off! Have you very conveniently also forgotten how wonderful it was to watch the great Geordie Armstrong and Overmars, they were quite small and whilst we're at it John Radford isn't exactly tall, so your argument doesn't really hold up! May I suggest that some of you experts on here should get back to reading the Beano! A great comic.

  56. CT Gooner

    Apr 30, 2014, 2:00 #50501

    Ok, here's something to debate, what are we going to do if Sagna leaves? We all love Jenks for his love of our team, but let's be honest, he a significant step down in a critical position. Also Podolski, who's his replacement? gnarly?? where's he been the last few months... So 25 mil for Coleman, 30 for Llanna, and 50 mil for a decent striker! All of a sudden we need 100 mil plus to have a chance at 4th. I say thank good we're paying an extra 3% but most of know there's not a chance in hell of us spending that big. And while I'm on my rant, really Sanogo is the best raw talent out there? Seriously there has to be some young Englishman that pish....

  57. Bernard Manning

    Apr 30, 2014, 1:34 #50500

    Why does BADARSE spell his name in capital letters? To make up for the size of his 'Max Clifford'

  58. GoonerRon

    Apr 29, 2014, 23:58 #50499

    @ Jeff - in terms of reviewing our position/performance relative to the other teams, the gap in points has nothing to do with mathematical chance at the end of the season. I'm just trying to make the point that we are much closer to the teams above us in terms of points than we were last season. FYI, and not wishing to be picky, we can still mathematically finish 3rd and indeed 2nd.

  59. jjetplane

    Apr 29, 2014, 23:49 #50497

    Nothing wrong with Change BADARSE and I have been most consistent in my appraisal of OGL. Nasri has actually grown up now he is playing with a group of developed adults. As for his spikiness - you need that to win stuff. You like to stick to a nice, conservative view of things where everything has it's neat philosophical peg hole. You can try all you like to control issues on here but the real truths have a way of surfacing again and again. Bit like Arsene's psuedo struggle with trophy winning while his real aim is to revolutionise the odd corporate portfolio. As for shapes - cubist, fauvist or a bit of suprematism? Looks like futurism is making a comeback.

  60. jeff wright

    Apr 29, 2014, 23:42 #50496

    GR,we are not close to the top because we can't mathematically finish top,or even second or third.7 points might as well be 70. It's the mathematical chance that counts and we don't have any. All of the top three sides have taken points from us and one another .Liverpool have replaced United against City and Chelsea for the title this term and Everton have replaced spuds in the battle for 4th place with us. Right must go I'm off out for a late curry at short notice . Cheers.

  61. jeff wright

    Apr 29, 2014, 23:30 #50495

    Badarse ,Wenger has gone backwards since adopting tika taka style football and filling our squad with players the size of garden gnomes. The fact that he had to revert to 4-4-2 against championship side Wigan in the semi at Wembley to stay in the final only goes to prove the point that tippy tappy has proven to be a failure . He couldnt even beat lowly M'c Leish's relegation side Brum at Wembley playing it. If Hull have a tiger in their tank is another matter, but I hope that Arsene doesent go and spoil things again for our supporters by doing some silly thing other,but if anyone can do that then Arsene is that man.

  62. GoonerRon

    Apr 29, 2014, 23:30 #50494

    @ Jeff - the fact is the FA Cup is one of the four trophies we entered into this season. The line up's we played throughout the tournament showed that we have taken it seriously. You're right that CL qualification is seen by many as more important (although I know plenty that would prefer an FA Cup over it) - and we are massively odds on to achieve both. I actually said we were 'quite close' to the top (and infuriatingly so) - a 7 point gap in the context of a run showing 3 wins in 11 is where my deluded mind was coming from, allied to the fact we were 16 points behind leaders last season. Re: United imploding - it's all if's and but's - whose to say they wouldn't have taken more points of those teams above us which would taken us closer to the top....

  63. jeff wright

    Apr 29, 2014, 23:18 #50493

    GR, you know as well as I do that the FAC is only a minor trophy now days with the CL cash cow money making 4th place in the Prem more important . I really do wish that things were different and that the old FAC could be restored to its former glory. I used to love those midweek ties under the floodlights at gaffs like Filbert Street . I don't make the rules though and if HillWood says the FAC is not important anymore then who am I to argue? We are not,other than in your deluded mind , close to the top of the league,we can only get 79 points and in the context of this close three other teams race for it we are in reality not even at the races.We are still scruffing away against Everton for 4th place . Phew! Just as well United imploded this season otherwise it could ,with the rise of Rodgers scousers , have been a bit tougher to scrape 4th place again for Arsene. Without 4thg place in the Prem the Cup looks even less important with only a Europey Cup place awarded for winning it. Anyway,I backed RM to win the European one a few weeks back after I had tipped them to do so on here and must have a good chance of collecting some summer holiday money from doing it. It's a much better wager than putting it on our little men at prohibitive odds on to win the FAC .

  64. BADARSE

    Apr 29, 2014, 23:09 #50492

    jeff I do think that there is a tendency to reshape circumstances to suit the argument, whether real or imagined. We have someone from your camp singing the praises of Nasri, then it's all tippy-tappy, Nasri was a part of that!. AW has no plan B yet he reverts to a 4-4-2 style at Wembley,(a style I would like to see again incidentally), criticised by your group for being a dinosaur and not having an alternative strategy, and you call it regression. There is so much reshaping that passes for sound judgement that it becomes a case of loose strands everywhere, perhaps I should arrange a virtual modelling class for a Thursday evening, because hopefully we shan't be playing football that night next season.

  65. GoonerRon

    Apr 29, 2014, 23:05 #50491

    @ WENGER OUT - I don't think I said anywhere that it's been a great season did I? Liverpool going from 8th to 1st would be a magnificent achievement and would also be unprecedented - well done to them if they do it but if it's being used to dish out stick it should go to any manager that finishes below them, including Mourinho and Pellegrini with better, more expensively assembled squads than ours. And clearly I disagree that it's been 9 years of the same ****e, hence my observations on the progression I believe we have made. As I said earlier, I can't predict the future but I live with some hope - Wenger mentioning recently that a review of the medical/rehab set up etc was taking place to find any possible correlation with our level of injuries, is a good start.

  66. GoonerRon

    Apr 29, 2014, 22:52 #50490

    Come on Jeff - how can you possibly say domestic cups aren't a barometer by which to judge us? A lack of trophy for Arsenal is probably the single most written about topic on this forum (and possibly in football-related media) over the years and has been a stick that the manager has been repeatedly bashed with. It's completely irrelevant who has won the trophies previously - for every Wigan there has been Man City breaking their trophy duck, for every Birmingham there's a Mourinho winning his first trophy for Chelsea. As for us needing favours from Everton, in my view this is irrelevant - each team has 38 games to accrue the highest amount of points possible and they finish where they finish in the league - would anyone say Everton needed our help if they finished 4th? No way. At certain points in the season I've definitely felt confident we could win it, and it is infuriating that we're actually quite close to the lead with two games to play - this is why I said the work on the squad isn't finished but my point about being in closer proximity to the leaders than last season does stand, as does the points tally as that is a barometer for our overall performance in the league season. As for our performances under pressure, clearly we have failed miserably on a huge scale in some of our games, but we have also seen good performances in other key games, which gives a modicum of encouragement. Lastly, whilst I can't recall the exact comments or authors I specifically remember a number of posts with various words such as 'NEVER', 'TROPHY', 'WENGER' all capitalised, so I don't think the distinction of trophy was ever made.

  67. jeff wright

    Apr 29, 2014, 22:43 #50489

    Badarse, going all tippy tacky was where it all went pearshaped for Arsene.He should have stuck to his tried and proven more pragmatic methods using big physical players like City and Chelsea do. As for progression,well was I imaging it that Wenger was forced into having to play 4-4-2- using two big lads up front against Chumpionship side Wigan to scrape a draw at Wembley in normal and extra time ? Hey, just as well Wigan were pony at pens non ! Progression ? Actually more like regression .

  68. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 29, 2014, 22:43 #50488

    Bard, i'm like a lot of others mate, long past the gloomy stage, your as right about your predictions the same way night turns to day, lets hope it's the same with the resignation one.

  69. jjetplane

    Apr 29, 2014, 22:37 #50487

    How good was Modric and that Bale run and pass. Just get me coat and **** off down the road.

  70. WENGER OUT

    Apr 29, 2014, 22:33 #50486

    You're right GoonerRon, it's been a great season! Why on earth have any of us been complaining? 4th place is 4th place... in a season where Liverpool can go from 8th to 1st, we still finish 4th (potentially) - great success, all hail Lord Wenger - Ein tausendjariges Reich and all that jazz. If people can't learn anything from 9 years of the same s**te I really do despair. No but wait, everything will be different next season, Wenger will make big signings before transfer deadline day, go on a football coaching course and make some attempt to stymie the obscene procession of injuries we suffer every season. That's all definitely going to happen and we will be champions again, we might even get past the last 16 of the CL. Unfortunately I still think Hull will beat us in the FA Cup final, for which I will welcome all opprobrium if we actually turn up and see off our mighty opponents.

  71. jeff wright

    Apr 29, 2014, 22:26 #50485

    Well done GR for spotting the deliberate mistake! Hmm, I don't know about all of this progression that you claim is taking place . Domestic Cups are no criteria to judge this by with teams winning them such as Brum and Wigan and then being relegated ! So I think it is best to just look at league and European results to judge if there has been any improvement. The FACT that Wenger has still not, with two games left to play , secured a qualifier tie for the European Cup and needed Palace and Southampton to help him out against Everton,his main rival, says that claims of an improvement are not really that credible. As I recall you were claiming that we would win the league this season, or go close to doing so ,we have not done that and our points total is irrelevant regarding this fact. I have always said that 4th place was the least we would achieve but tbh I thought we would have had it wrapped up weeks ago . Dropping points at home to Swansea,it could have been more than 2, and losing to Everton made things harder. This current side and Wenger himself don't perform well under pressure ,so let's hope that we beat West Brom and City do Everton if we don't. As regards Wenger never winning anything again I think the point was about the Prem and the European Cup that he said was his numero one objective and not him winning the FAC that was the last trophy he won 9 years ago, and he surely can't have stayed with us to just do that again.

  72. BADARSE

    Apr 29, 2014, 22:07 #50484

    True jeff, though in all honesty it didn't require much in terms of transition as we played possession football throughout, with certain variations depending on personnel and the evolution of different sides over the years. It was a naturally progressive move I think. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. We just didn't quite have the mettle in the side to quite pull it off, but ran it close a few times. My comments were tongue in cheek, just amused that even the best in PG can still get it wrong, or his players did.

  73. jjetplane

    Apr 29, 2014, 22:06 #50483

    Real Madrid 12 Arsenal 0 Good thing we never got them.

  74. BADARSE

    Apr 29, 2014, 21:57 #50482

    GoonerRon, 'Respect!'

  75. GoonerRon

    Apr 29, 2014, 21:44 #50481

    I said at the start of the season that Wenger had to earn a new contract by producing a title tilt and/or a trophy, and he is on schedule to do just that. Over the course of the season many have said on here that we will never win a trophy with Wenger at the helm and that we will finish out of the CL places as we are 'a mid-table team' etc, so surely some people should be pleasantly surprised that we are on course to exceed their expectations? In terms of 'progression' we are on course to beat last year's points total, be much closer to the champions and further away from those behind, with a cup final to come. The team has developed in the last few years in terms of injecting more experience into the squad, a general and overall improvement in our defensive shape (acknowledging the whippings away from were strange in this context), an ability to win most matches against teams we should beat (which is now disparagingly referred to as flat-track bullying), all key players (bar one) secured to long term contracts and key commercial deals signed and sealed. For me this is progression as all of these things were issues we all at some point in the last few years we quite rightly complained about, that have been addressed. There is still some work to be done with the playing squad and it looks likely that Wenger will get 2 more years to continue this most recent evolution. Clearly, I can't guarantee Wenger will buy the players we need to move us up the level we want to achieve, but I don't believe he is completely against change (as per the items evidenced earlier) so I'll try to live in hope that we get CL football for next year, win the FA Cup and push on again. FYI Jeff Wright - only a small point but Wenger has won trophies in 5 seasons (hopefully soon to be 6)

  76. Gaz

    Apr 29, 2014, 21:27 #50480

    Honestly this really isn't that hard to understand. Injuries as an excuse are fine but they don't have to lead to defeats and they certainly should never be the cause of 5-0, 6-0, and 6-1 thrashings. What happened to the days when we used to defy the odds? When we'd be reduced to ten men and still look the better side and win? Where we'd look at Utd and their spending power and say 'so what-we're still gonna take you on AND beat you!' We're always looking for excuses as to why we don't succeed and it makes us look so weak. Wenger can try and deflect the blame as much as he wants but failing to prepare (for other sides) is preparing to fail. And starting a season with the three strikers we did was always going to see us eventually struggle. I'd just have so much more respect for Wenger if just for once he admitted he's not been good enough but he believes in this team which is why he's staying for two more years for no extra money. As it is he really believes he's made no mistakes and is deserving of the extra £2m he's getting...

  77. jeff wright

    Apr 29, 2014, 21:02 #50478

    Badarse, Wenger is just an imitation of PG he nicked all of his tippy tappy ideas that he now employs off him . We were not called Barca Lite during the glorious Fabregas era for no good reason.

  78. jeff wright

    Apr 29, 2014, 20:52 #50477

    There is no hope for Wenger, with his parsimonious policies that lead down the road to randy Oliver and a postman striker , beating sides like Real, with Ronaldo and co in them . Wenger with just 4 seasons in which he has actually ever won anything in his 16 at AFC also lacks the tactical nous to master the top managers . That's why he has never won anything in Europe and never will. Yet again he is scratching about like an old dog with fleas to beat Everton, a team managed by a man with half his resources, for 4th place in the Prem .Rodgers at Liverpool has already secured automatic CL group football while Wenger still waits to secure a qualifier tie.

  79. BADARSE

    Apr 29, 2014, 20:44 #50476

    What a poor manager, defence can't deal with set pieces, amateurish. Wonder what he is doing next season? There might be a vacancy at AFC.

  80. Stevieo

    Apr 29, 2014, 20:32 #50475

    Hats off to those that actually went or watched the game on the box last night. I gave it 5 minutes, but these end of season kickabouts don't do it for me. Bard mate, I feel your theory about Wenger resigning is more to do with hopeful optimism than anything. The problem is, after every thrashing comes a nice easy home tie against a Norwich, and then guess what - we're on the road to recovery? Back that up with a nice trip to Cardiff, and then we're on the up again. Then bring on the next thrashing and repeat the cycle. In the event of two back to back thrashings, revert to type and blame injuries, the unfairness of the loan system, TV scheduling, etc, etc. The cult of Wenger makes him bullet proof.

  81. BADARSE

    Apr 29, 2014, 19:48 #50474

    What's with all this deities, gods, and disciples? It don't do for atheists, ha ha. With apologies to Bob Newhart. 'So this is a site for fans discussions? Right, but it seems that there is always only one topic. Because it's such a big topic-OK, and nothing else matters so much you say? Oh right, so nothing at all? Oh I see, but you are really just agreeing with each other all the time, aren't you? Pardon? Because you do agree. Right, so all in accord? What always? More or less you say? A bit pointless though isn't it, to just agree with each other all the time and only discuss one topic? Yes I know you said it's an important topic, but no one disagrees? You what? There are a few? You say what? Two in particular? So what happens there then? Oh you moan at them? Both of them-all the time? Is that fair? They deserve it you say, but why? They disagree with you all? But surely that's OK isn't it, it's the point of the site, isn't it? Pardon, because they are wrong? They are both old? That's definitely not fair. It is? One is a bit zany? Zany? He talks about odd things like a virtual pilates session? Mmm, does sound a little odd. Right, and you say the other talks about betting odds and musicals-thinks he knows a lot too? Perhaps they both do then if they keep disagreeing? You do what? Give them stick? It's always them, against all of you? Mmm, you make them sound like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Pardon? There's a woman too? So who is she, Annie Oakley, ha ha? She likes horses? So Annie Oakley fits doesn't it? Does she get stick too? She does? Mmm, not very chivalrous is it? She deserves it? Wow! So let me get this straight, one of you says something about the usual topic? Ah, OK.Then another of you agrees? Right, so don't tell me, then a few more do? Ok. Then one both or all three, Butch, Sundance and Annie disagree? OK, got that. Then, let me guess, you have a go at them? Right, seems a bit unfair and repetitious to me. You are fans of the same club though? Hang on, why are you giving me stick? He's done another zany one? Yes, but I'm only asking the questions!'

  82. The Westlower & Badarse Fan Club

    Apr 29, 2014, 19:44 #50473

    The problem for Westlower and Badarse is they have no argument. They have only a wish - that Wenger goes on and on and on. A club of AFC's size is going to have to undergo managerial reorganistaion soon anyway - staying with the 'dictator' model for a further two years is just putting it off. So having no argument, all Westlower can do is exagerrate the claims of others ("you expect us to win all 38 games), quote the Torygraph to add 'authentity' to his 'stance' (it seems the 'rise' from 5th to 4th is due to the 'experience and perspective' of Wenger whilst the fall from 1st to 5th is nothing to do with that same 'experience and perspective'; it's all externals). In his turn, Badarse obfuscates; distracts by making his focus the comments of others ("how silly you all sound"; "you lack spirit") rather than the issue at hand. They share a belief that they're making a point by quoting old song lyrics. There is no actual argument there at all.

  83. Mandrake

    Apr 29, 2014, 19:25 #50472

    Is Wenger in or is he out.If you would allow me, I would like to invite you into a world that I'm in, and then into a world where I would like to be in. The surplus of this thing called madness has overwhelmed me so. It has etched it's presence within the peripherals of my vision and the groundings of the world around me. I'm doing my best to refrain from the usual written prolix; my most verbose dialect that seem even ambiguous to those of a higher stature. I want you all to comprehend and peradventure shed a scintilla of empathy; the bedlam that is my mind keeps attracting the mad and the sleeplessness. The monotony of repetition and the lonely nights of nostalgia. In unison, the Asylum within the corridors of mind houses such emotional consequences and dares to formulate an ominous construct; derived by the copious amount of my many iniquities. I am never at peace. Give me a silent "dark" that coincides a placid slumber. Let me drift within the winds of a comatose state and the ringing of the Sandman within my ear; the melodies of sleep produced by nothingness. I seek such a slumber that transcends that of delving into the subconscious of the brain, but instead the subconscious to reach inside it's own subconscious. Like a dream within dream, but with no dream. If out How absurd.

  84. Westlower

    Apr 29, 2014, 19:18 #50471

    Hello, is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me. Is there anyone at home? I hear you're feeling down, I can ease the pain, get you on your feet again. Relax, I need some information first, just the basic facts. Can you show me where you hurt. I have become constantly numb!

  85. Green Hut

    Apr 29, 2014, 19:12 #50470

    Tony Evans- You're right mate it's the good and bad, the ups and and downs of the past that keep us coming back rather than the deliberately mundane nothingness of today's Arsenal. Liverpool will probably lose the title on the last day of the season but what a ride they've given their fans because they refused to let their best player leave, whilst we end up in January begging Salomon Kalou to join us on loan, and you just know he's going to join us permanently and on the cheap in the Summer to 'solve' our problem up front. Man Utd took a chance on Moyes, it didn't work and they've had a shocker of a year but nobody died, the club didn't go under and it'll just be seen as one step back to take two forward when they're firing again under Van Gaal next season. Van Persie has miraculously recovered already! What hope have we got with a manager who constantly and publicly tells his players how tired, nervous and timid they are? The latest one is that Wenger stays away from the touchline (you know, HIS technical area) during games so as not to transmit his negativity to the players! You couldn't make this soul-destroying rubbish up.

  86. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 29, 2014, 19:09 #50469

    Continuing on from my last post something i thought deserved to be separate. He has already divided the fan base (there's no need to go into why)caused a huge wedge between supporters and that's really sad it really is, (a sackable offence on it's own).Who would have thought that would happen during our last years at Highbury where every fan was united? Yes fans have always disagreed with each other over various topics to do with our club (for want of a better word)but not as serious as this and on this scale? with two different camps at each others throat because of one man? Hopefully this divide can be brought back together to a certain extent anyway, when he eventually does step down in two years time, as i can't see it happening before, but there again maybe this is the way it'll always be i'd like to think not.

  87. Bard

    Apr 29, 2014, 19:07 #50468

    MG: don't be so gloomy mate. He won't be here for 2 more years.The euphoria over another 4th place success won last long. The summer transfer window will be the usual protracted farce with Wenger unwilling to pay proper money for top players. We will no doubt add a Sanogo or two but it won't be enough to compete. The first thrashing we get will resurrect the barely hidden rebellion among the fans and he will resign.

  88. jjetplane

    Apr 29, 2014, 18:34 #50467

    MCguiresbridge Great words mate and we all need to hear it.

  89. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 29, 2014, 18:15 #50466

    FPGooner, yes mate it's the only way to look at it now, don't let this man drive us away from the club we love and support, and loved and supported long before he arrived, or diminish the love and passion we all have for it, a hell of a lot from birth, he has no right to, it's not his club(although that topic can be saved for another time)like i've already said and it's worth saying again we'll still be here when he's gone and so will our beloved Arsenal no matter what his disciples think.

  90. Gaz

    Apr 29, 2014, 17:41 #50465

    @Westlower: Wow mate you're really scraping the barrel with that old line! Whats next? If we dont stick with Wenger and spend wisely we'll turn into the new Leeds?...

  91. jjetplane

    Apr 29, 2014, 17:31 #50464

    Now now BadARSe and WeSTie Why be so shaky in thine cupboards. Tis only a mere forum such as antiquity thrived upon. 'oooh look - another lizard under the rock'. Mind you Badarse - you're bang on the nail re de Torygraph - never read that rag in my life! As Marshall McCluhan once said: 'the medium is the message' CLAssIC DELUDED - class post! Feel the joy - wembley is coming! Talking of injuries - pulled a muscled so now happily sedated ...... Proper match on tonight - even got a spud old boy in it ... Days.

  92. Westlower

    Apr 29, 2014, 17:10 #50463

    Why can't AFC satisfy all our demands and win all 38 PL games? Guess it's the fault of an unambitious manager who can't see the wood for the trees & only signs players who get injured. Perhaps no one has explained to him that winning every game is part of the AFC's managers remit. Can't trust board members to ask relevant questions. "Herr Klopp, have you ever lost a football match?" "I'm afraid I did once." Next! "Now Pep, have you ever lost a football match?" Yes, but.." On hearing this Stan screams, "Goddamn it, where's Superman when you need him?"

  93. FPGooner

    Apr 29, 2014, 16:58 #50462

    maguiresbridge gooner, Post No. 53520, best way of looking at it. Wenger probably has no idea that there are fans of AFC out there not thrilled with him. But then, as he says, what do we know, we haven't worked half a day in football. The excuses for not winning a bean the last few years get more ridiculous. Yes, there is a conspiracy within the Referee's Association to deny us penalties. Yes, injuries are a new thing, one we have never had before. We speak of it as if a new killer disease has been discovered. And yes, the right thing to do is to go the season without even one world-class forward. And, why buy a forward or two in January - that would be so boringly predictable. Chelsea went to Anfield with a weakened team, playing a 20 year old rookie in defence and have the audacity to win. Isn't it far more elegantly chic to go there and get hammered to an inch of our lives? I Still haven't heard any cogent or compelling arguments why Wenger should stay.

  94. CT Gooner

    Apr 29, 2014, 16:51 #50461

    Westlower, where can I buy your glasses? I wish I could see what you do! Please don't say in the club shop as I'm not giving them any money til Wenger goes....

  95. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 29, 2014, 16:43 #50460

    Classic deluded muppet, good one, those goddam injuns, if it's not the cowboys it's the injuns. And the peppa pig quip, quip of the day so far.

  96. BADARSE

    Apr 29, 2014, 16:30 #50459

    Great post westie! Am with you on that one! You nailed it mate! Agree with everything westie! Oh well said! Actually I do, but I just for once in my life wanted to type an out of character, but general and supportive response, which I see on here daily. Looks funny in print, doesn't it 24601? So the Villa game wasn't an outrageous event in refereeing terms? Of course it was! If that aspect escapes then we are not talking from a common standpoint. And westie, what I want to know is why you said you were off and didn't go? Don't say things you don't mean, man! Ha ha. It's all very silly. Think I'll go-nope, changed my mind, I'm back. Many seem suicidal, and have no spirit for what's ahead. Odd. I understand the reasoning as a mood or mind set, but cannot see the logic, perhaps I am too logical, that must be worth a pop. If you are down you must be missing something. I am not high but do not suffer these crashes which many do. As an exercise it would be interesting to scrutinise. I am so excited by our run to fourth; better than fifth, actually it's better than sixth too, and every place below. Mostly I am excited about the final. Hope we can do it, would like to see the lads at Wembley in August for the Community Shield or whatever they are calling it this year. Just to offer a personal view jjetplane. Telegraph? Rubbish! Newspapers in general? Rubbish! Where do we go from here? It was westlower's fault, after all he brought the message so shoot him. Nasri. In his first game I saw a delightfully skilful footballer. Loved his style, balance and sublime skill. He developed and I was glad he was an Arsenal man. Then I detected a side to him-drifting in and out of games, and also heard a few things which unsettled me. I found out he is a money-grubbing and superficial individual. Check the internet for his refusal to perform skills for the camera unless he was paid, and he was only a child! Yet a hard-bitten money-mad youngster nonetheless. His skill is unchallenged. So my view of him as a person is quite low, as a footballer quite high. Both aspects have been held throughout, and I still hold them. Guess I am just a stick in the mud, but consistent chap.

  97. Classic deluded muppet

    Apr 29, 2014, 16:26 #50458

    Citeh 6 Arsenal 3 Pool 5 Arsenal 1 Chelski 6 (SIX) Arsenal 0 Everton 3 Arsenal 0 'Fine margins' they say. LOL 2006: 'we are hampered by injuries' 2007: 'we are hampered by injuries' 2008: 'we are hampered by injuries' 2009: 'we are hampered by injuries' 2010: 'we are hampered by injuries' 2011: 'we are hampered by injuries' 2012: 'we are hampered by injuries' 2013: 'we are hampered by injuries' 2014: 'we are hampered by injuries' You cannot even see how moronic and ridiculous the injuries excuse has become. If after 10 successive years, the manager is too much of an imbecile to realise that you compensate for injuries by having a deeper squad; then we would be better off having Peppa Pig in charge FFS. Wenger is an absolute joke though, a Specialist in Failure who has gone as far as blaming the injuries on'hair supplements and pills'. Yes. I swear, Mr £8 mil a year and '30 years in football' thinks that's the reason behind the injuries. What a Genius! 2 more years of pathetic failure and imbecilic excuses from Wenger-drones awaits. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

  98. I hope the contract rumours are false

    Apr 29, 2014, 16:17 #50457

    Happy St Totteringham's Day. Third win in a row is good momentum for the cup final, the real trophy.

  99. KC

    Apr 29, 2014, 15:54 #50456

    Be pro or anti Wenger but please do not blame refs we all get poor decisions all supporters can point them out, but by blaming them we hide away from the truth. Remember we went a season unbeaten and no doubt had bad refs but we had a great team!

  100. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 29, 2014, 15:43 #50455

    DJ, you've possibly answered your own question there mate, with the word ambition, none from a club or tired old manager.

  101. jeff wright

    Apr 29, 2014, 15:32 #50454

    Westie,blaming the ref for us losing to Villa is just pathetic. Our poor defending was the real reason. Only one loss at home in the league true - but there were a few costly draws that in the context of a supposed title challenge are just as bad as losing.The Everton game that would have sent us 7 points clear at the top and a game that wass allegedly suppossed prove thatwe were an improved side from last term was one of them and ,as in the Villa game we had a one goal lead but blew it big-time . Also Chelsea,United bore draws ,all looked same old Arsene bottle it when the heat is on. Swansea were robbed by the ref of a win against us by the ref after out playing us. I suppose though that in Westie World only referees decisions that are not in our favour count as being wrong ones. Aside from the Prem though what about the defeat to Chelsea in the Capital Cup - and the one to Bayern in the Champions League? Oh, I forgot,they were down to dodgy refs robbing us as well ! The FAC run has been the only positive thing this season,but as I recall it you wanted Wenger to drop out of it because it would impact on our Prem title bid ! You couldn't make it up.

  102. 600NER PETE

    Apr 29, 2014, 15:10 #50453

    Like Gaz and others I found it difficult to get excited about the game last night, even when the goals went in. This may be as a result of the way football has gone since Sky took over and my general disenchantment of the game I used to love. It doesn't help that we seem to have had the same season for the past 6 years. In a previous post some fans were talking about the FA cup game against Forest in 79. I used to love the FA cup. I went to all 11 games in 79 and I was so passionate about football and Arsenal then. Now it is so difficult to get excited about any of it. I can't even get particularly excited about being in the cup final! Bizarre. If I knew Wenger was going at the end of the season then that would be something I could get excited about!

  103. Gaz

    Apr 29, 2014, 15:07 #50452

    @Westlower: Appreciate your concern fella. And if I can return that concern right back at you I'm concerned that tongue of yours might be getting....oh what the f*ck, you know where I'm going with this!!! :-)...

  104. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 29, 2014, 15:05 #50451

    SGRB, we've given him all the time, leverage, and cut him all the slack in the world, something any other manager on this earth would not have got in his place, but we've put up with him for nine years now two more will not make much difference hopefully they'll be short. We were here before he came and we'll still be here when he's gone.

  105. jjetplane

    Apr 29, 2014, 15:05 #50450

    Cheers RON Where would we be without The Telegraph hey! ha ha! Remember when I was not too happy with Nasri's departure but have come to admire the guy again and he really is up there now with the Citeh kingpins. Arsenal will remain a profitable concern for the few while they still have bodies to Traffick..... That is Wenger's job in a nutshell/in a bad jacket. Least we can say most of us on here are positive about the future of this club and can see beyond the squalour of a few filling their carts with gold nuggets. Let the children play .....

  106. KC

    Apr 29, 2014, 14:53 #50449

    Gaz I understand your feelings about no interest although I can not see any advantage to not finishing fourth and I always want Arsenal to win every game. I want to see desire to be the best, something Wenger seems to lack but I do not see him not signing. I struggle to have the same passion due to the anfield and bridge surrenders and beating teams like West Ham and Newcastle does not make it all better. Season ticket due again soon and no doubt I will renew but I am simply stunned by our managers inability to deal with the obvious weaknesses while at the same time supporting my team and willing them to win. I have concerns if Wenger went because as much as I want change I have no faith that the club will get the replacement right. If only we could have a choice of 5 with Wenger being one of them. If he does stay my only hope is that his new contract runs out at the same time Klopp or Simeone are available. We could buy but Wengers tactics at big away matches has to change if we are to compete and this I doubt very much.

  107. Ron

    Apr 29, 2014, 14:48 #50448

    JJ - Good points. People since the RVP sale hardly mention the Clubs policy of selling on. Maybe because until now the landscape has looked poor as to who there was to sell for any real return. Ramsey does now look favourite for the exit door.Putting aside his injuries, his Season has marked him out now as one who deserves better, esp now his physical strength has increased. Next season i suspect could be his last based on his present progress? Gnabry to be groomed as his successor, a lad who also looks destined for bigger things than Arsenal can offer. Wilshere is still in there, but needs a year of consistency and fitness before his big move will come i guess. Im sure the power brokers there are feeling better about the future capital input.

  108. Westlower

    Apr 29, 2014, 14:43 #50447

    @Where's Wally, If teams below the top 7 are easier to beat why can't Chelsea & Man City beat them? @Jeff, Our only loss at home this season was the opening game v Villa. If ever a ref influenced the result of a game this was it. Two penalties against & a red card against the home side on the first game of the season, previously unheard of! Have you seen anything re AFC worth a positive mention this season, as I can't recall anything? @Gaz, I'm concerned that supporting AFC appears to have become too stressful for you. Please help yourself and find a more pleasurable way of living your life before your health suffers.

  109. KC

    Apr 29, 2014, 14:36 #50446

    Quite simply a very good post, mirrors my thoughts. Although the start last night was again slow and I find it difficult to understand how Wenger can enjoy the tempo of the build up. We must try and avoid ever giving teams something to hold onto and although we delivered last night we will not always play teams with nothing to play for.

  110. Ozzie

    Apr 29, 2014, 14:35 #50445

    Playing 38 games and losing just 7 in many other sports would put daylight between you and the opposition. A fair achievement for so little reward.

  111. jb

    Apr 29, 2014, 14:35 #50444

    Kenny - to be fair to Ozil I think he is a top player but he is used to playing with top players. There is a big difference in lifting your head to spot a pass and you see Ronaldo, Benzema etc. and now he sees Giroud. Anyway it seems 2 more years of torture are in store for us all!

  112. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Apr 29, 2014, 14:26 #50443

    @ED all that points total increases mean is that the clubs below the top 6 or 7 are becoming easier to beat.This is especially so for the top four as the financial gap between Champions League teams and the rest has a significant cumulative effect year on year. More than ever there are two leagues within the Premiership and for the top sides finishing outside the top four is the same as being relegated.That's why Moyes has been sacked and Wenger continues to be employed.

  113. jjetplane

    Apr 29, 2014, 14:21 #50442

    Well - it's taken nine years to perfect the 4th spot to the point of precision. Arsenal really are boring in the most numbing sense. Procession (dirge) is the word for this Emirates business model that operates in isolation to the rest of the league but occasionally (this could change0 gets a calling card from one of the bigger firms. The man I feel sorry for most is Ramsay. In this last year (let's hope injuries don't ruin his career) his rise has been fantastic. A truly gifted individual who will move or be moved on as are the Yankie's dictates. Totally with you GAZ in feeling distantly 'whelmed' by reaching a CL play-off place and a cup nobody wants. Congestion beckons for the new season but I imagine the next two years will be spent in tying up any loose financial ends. Sell some players (Ox, Jack, Ramsay, Walcott) to offset losing a CL placement. Keep pushing Club prices up for the corporates so they can feel the virtual machismo of being 'a landed gooner'. All will come to pass but some of us will be too busy doing football to worry about it. There is another twist. We could spend the next nine years perfecting 3rd placement. You know the old football song: Tsunami Tsunami ... Sports Direct hey.

  114. Tony Evans

    Apr 29, 2014, 14:03 #50440

    Gaz - I think many of us are 'going through the motions' with Arsenal at the moment because of times gone by (both good and bad) and long associations with the club; it is certainly not because of any genuine interest in Wenger's current crop of bottlers and midfield midgets. I just hope the FA Cup final will inject some renewed enthusiasm in to me, and I will try to forget about another probable two years of this torture, for one day at least.

  115. Bard

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:57 #50439

    SGRB: I know the feeling mate. I have felt that way at end of the last 4 or 5 seasons and continually wonder whether to chuck in my season ticket. But I reason that my love for the club outweighs any feelings for Wenger and once a gooner always a gooner. You can't get away from it. Also even though he's odds on to sign a new contract he won't see out his two years. The tide has turned he's one thrashing away from having to go in my opinion so hold mate.

  116. jeff wright

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:54 #50438

    Westie,I was impressed how Wenger orchestrated Palace and Southampton's wins over Everton to get us back on the up to 4th place ,the man is a genius! Actually even now it's not mathematically done and dusted, you know what they say about taking your eye off the ball... ask Gerard about it... perhaps best not to tempt fate non ?

  117. Ron

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:52 #50437

    Focusing on injuries, i never thought id say it but the injury to Walcott has been the real hit. He was rocking when he broke down wasn't he. Ramsey to a lesser extent. Im not sure the performances of Wilshere or Ozil had they have been fit would have given such a percentage uplift to avoid the hammering's this season. We met Liverpool and Man C away when both were on the crest of a wave too.That said, the team's set up and lack of squad strengthening last Summer and in January are the underlying explanations for this seasons malaise in my view.All Clubs lose top players for periods, at the top and bottom of the table and do we truly hear their managers rolling out the injury excuse quite like Arsene? I think not. The injuries are a convenient mask for the weaknesses and fault-lines in his performance and Arsenals squad. Im pretty sure Arsene knows it deep down too. If hes staying as seems likely, lets just hope he rectifies it.

  118. Gaz

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:45 #50436

    @BADARSE: No need to feel sorry for me fella! It's just a game after all... @Westlower: quite frankly that quote you just posted is just ridiculous...

  119. maguiresbridge gooner

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:44 #50435

    Ourselves and Newcastle have something in common then, nothing to play for and in a comfort zone with fans who aren't happy with their manager.The only difference is Ashely will probably do something about it. I suppose you could call it lacklustre maybe a better description is routine a routine win which we never looked like losing under no real pressure with three good goals and could have had more, against opponents going through the motions who obviously have their minds on other things like what factor sun cream to wear on the beach. But a wins a win and that's all that matters in pursuit of the coveted fourth place trophy and another crack at OGL's Holy Grail. Yes a good performance from Ramsey coming back into form in time for the final lets hope it stays that way and he doesn't pick up another injury or any one else for that matter but you wouldn't bet against it, maybe that was OGL's thinking last night by hooking him when the substitution alarm clock went off in the dugout, although Ozil didn't look to pleased as he was hooked i guess for the same reason and just about managed a smile when he was presented with the MOTM award. Another win, another three points it's just a pity we couldn't do it when it mattered when there was something to play for, but lets hope we change that, and save one of these routine wins for when it does matter like the FA Cup Final.

  120. Any Old Iron

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:37 #50434

    People will always contrive to defend the obviously indefensible. Please see The PFA Team of the Year: Cech, ( went to CFC - fee to big), Shaw, Kompany, Cahill, ( went to CFC - fee @ 6m to big), Coleman, Hazard, (went to CFC - fee & wages to big) , Yaya Toure, ( went to City fee & wages to big) , Gerrard, Lallana, Suarez, ( didn't get it done because he didn't want it done in reality - the cause MONEY), Sturridge Sagna about to leave like Clichy, Nssti, RVP, A. Cole, Adebayor, (I'll leave Fab out), because of.....? MONEY! Wenger's transfer policy, or the absence of one is primarily the root cause, not the only cause though. These players have picked up the wages they wanted - the going rate and have been delivering. Wenger is adamant though that a type of the great rock 'n' roll swindle can be achieved in football. Sorry, not now, not with City, CFC, Man U et al. Added to the passy passy game he adores we're condemned to be also rans again!

  121. Lee

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:28 #50433

    Bard - Couldnt agree with you more mate, also for £30+ we could and should have got Higuain! Massive upgrade but as usual the boss penny pinching!! Serious upgrade to Giroud (not knocking the fella I really like him) but he is what his price tag is! Also we all need to give this board and Gazidis what for!! this money needs to be spent this summer! Wenger needs to identify the players then STAY OUT OF IT! Trouble is all the other idiots are CLUELESSm, when it comes to football!! They are all businessmen, thats why wenger is so involved in all areas and why he hasnt ever been sacked! If we spent all this millions on worldy players and sustained european cup and league title challenges, I wouldnt moan as much as I do! even about the price of my season ticket and all these category A away days and in europe!

  122. DJ

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:26 #50432

    Westlower: 'His Arsenal team are on the rise again?' We can only finish fourth, is that a big enough rise for you? We finished fourth last year! There can be no excuse for the lack of investment in January when we could have risen to first.

  123. Chris

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:16 #50430

    SGRB - There's no doubt that the quality of the opposition contributed, but it was also unfortunate a) that the big games fell together (ok, I know you are more likely to play big teams in FA Cup and CL later in the season but the hard league games were clustered too) and b) they fell when we were short of half a dozen of our big players. I would actually agree with you and GH that we were lucky not to have Giroud / centre halves out for extended periods. I don't agree that we are doomed to more of the same - I think it is quite likely, given that every year we seem to have this dip, but still hold hope for a) more Big signings and b) a revised apporach to squad management. I even heard Wenger on the radio recently admitting that HE (well, he said 'we') made a mistake by over-playing Ramsey to the point of injury. He's not stupid, maybe he'll finally learn?

  124. jeff wright

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:10 #50429

    You would have to be very deluded to believe that Ramsey,Wilshere and Walcott would all remain fit for an entire season. Especially with Wenger playing them in every game when he could do. It was obvious that Ramsey and Wilshere were struggling before they were injured , and as has been pointed out Wenger is well stocked up anyway on little midfield men. The shelf is rather bare on strikers though and Wenger got lucky there in keeping Giroud, the slayer of pygmies, fit . The writing was on the wall regarding a title tilt on the first day at home when we lost to Villa. A run of results against sides in the lower regions of the league afterwards provided a facade of us challenging for the title , although the away defeat at struggling Moyes United in early November was another indicator that the title challenge was just another Wenger illusion. In December the tougher fixtures in the Prem and in Europe kicked in and left Wenger once again exposed as being le emperor with out any clothes on. Regarding why Wenger failed to bring in another striker in January his explanation at the time was that big Bendy, whom he pays 50k a week wages to , still had a future at the club and could play a part in helping to win the league. This was just cynical lying by Wenger and he does this sort of thing all of the time .Later he switched to claiming that Sanago would become the new Anelka ,he probably does believe that as he once claimed that Vela, because he was left footed, would be the new Robbie Fowler . You couldn't make it up.

  125. Westlower

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:06 #50428

    Quote in today's Daily Telegraph: It is some transformation from 3 weeks ago when defeat at Everton caused such angst & outrage among fans. Arsenal, though were fortunate at that time to have a manager with such experience & perspective. His Arsenal team are on the up again.

  126. Bard

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:05 #50427

    Even if you buy into the injuries argument how do you explain the abject capitulations against City, Chelsea and Liverpool ? DJ the reason why we didn't buy a striker is because they cost a lot of money and Wenger wants to buy on the cheap. We could have bought Suarez but put in an insulting offer. If we had of offered £60m it would have looked a snip after the season he's had.

  127. BADARSE

    Apr 29, 2014, 13:03 #50426

    Thank you Kevin. I found myself in accord with most of your views as usual. The follow up posts are interesting in that they are fairly typical, but worthy. The distillation of views is often better for me to grasp a sentiment. Poor Gaz. I know you are sincere buddy. It's a bit sad. Not for me, but I do have a sense of empathy. westlower sings the song for me, and I love the lyrics-then you would expect me to support his view. The focus of what he said finally, is where I would loudly shout my endorsement. Ozil! This man will be a delight next season-depending on availability of the men who can play off his brand of unlicensed skill. He can improve the side of course, markedly make other players appear better, and possibly in Theo's case create a new footballer. This I shall be watching for especially. I so want that to happen. Newcastle were clearly poor but we did a number on them as anticipated, and required. In Chelsea's season they too have met teams prepared to roll over and have their bellies tickled, it happens to all clubs, the exclusive right is not that of AFC alone. We clearly have a situation within the framework of the club and the support from fans, which needs addressing. Let's hope it is resolved satisfactorily soon. Gaz my friend, it can't help the angst, or disconnection you are experiencing, but spare a thought for a moment of what it must feel like to be a Newcastle fan, or worse, a Tiny Tott. Chin up matey. Oh sorry, just want my bit of acceptance again, Aaron still looks like the man that I said might just carry us over the line.

  128. WENGER OUT

    Apr 29, 2014, 12:55 #50425

    Hands up who's happy with 4th place every year??? So that's julesd, BADARSE and Westlower? Anyone else, no? If you lot are so delighted with 4th, imagine how Liverpool will feel when they finish 2nd, I'm sure there will be scenes reminiscent of Arsenals great victory at Newcastle last season... oh no... erm

  129. HowardL

    Apr 29, 2014, 12:42 #50423

    Please let's not take anything for granted. We still need another win or Everton to lose - and I don't think any of us can face the Europa Thursday night thing. Also it's not unknown for underdogs to play above themselves at Wembley. Of course the sensible thing would have been to use the money to strengthen the squad. Be careful what you wish for...

  130. Gaz

    Apr 29, 2014, 12:42 #50422

    I see Wengers 'injuries injuries they've all got it in for me' line is being trotted out by his supporters too now. Pathetic. I could not give a rats arse as to how many injuries we've had this season NO top side should EVER concede twenty goals in four games against their rivals. Never. It shouldn't happen. End of. For goodness sake if Wenger blamed the cut of the grass or coloured boots some fans would lap it up...

  131. DJ

    Apr 29, 2014, 12:36 #50420

    As I have posted on here before but have yet to receive a reply, why did we not buy a striker in January when Theo was injured on the 3rd and ruled out for the season? That is when the ambition of the club was tested and found wanting and why I hope Arsene resigns after a glorious cup win.

  132. Holywood Gooner

    Apr 29, 2014, 12:27 #50418

    It's fairly obvious that there is a team mentality problem. As Kevin states, we're flat track bullies and fall short spectacularly against any significant challenge. Do they really have better players? Maybe deeper squads, but I think the qulaity of our squad has improved markedly from what it was two years ago. This has happened too regularly to be a coincidence. Reality is we lack big game mentality, are frail on these occasions and the team is a reflection of it's manager. Great mental strength? No - I think the team mentality is very fragile. For this reason alone, I'd like to see a change - although I know it's not going to happen anytime soon.

  133. Gaz

    Apr 29, 2014, 12:27 #50417

    Never have I felt so uninterested in an Arsenal game as I did last night. Would have switched over if it wasn't for the fact my daughter wanted to watch it. Never imagined I could feel that way but quite frankly the anger and frustration I've felt lately has now been replaced by a total lack of interest that I guess will not change until Wenger leaves the Club. Only thing that might remotely change my attitude would be for us to spend big and early on in the summer but I know that won't happen. And even if it did my loathing for Wenger the manager (not to be mistaken for Wenger the man) will not change. As for the game itself we beat a crap side when the pressure was off so no change there then...

  134. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Apr 29, 2014, 12:19 #50416

    Think we've been lucky with injuries this season. They've been concentrated in midfield (where Wenger overstocks) rather than elsewhere in the squad (where he understocks). It's turned out to be a battle for 4th rather than a battle for the title; that's where the real 'fine line' exists. Talk of 'fine lines' to the top when 20 goals have been conceded in 4 games to teams around us doesn't sound quite right. Here's an alternative theory on the Big Dip (© Chris)to 'bad luck with injuries': AFC had to play good teams for a while, so they lost. Now they're back playing rubbish teams, so they're winning. The patterns - tactics, injuries, transfers, any front you like - are there for all to see, but some people either genuinely can't see those patterns, or think they're a price worth paying for the sheer joy of dear old Arsene carrying on. We're destined for two more years of repetitive and predictable comments, others repetitively and predictably complaining about those comments and - most importantly, the source of it all - Wenger being repetitive and predictable. Don't think I have the stomach for two more years of Same Old, Same Old, so will be taking more a distance for the next couple of seasons (though whether I mean that in the Westlower sense of 'I'm off but not really' remains to be seen!)

  135. Green Hut

    Apr 29, 2014, 11:30 #50415

    Westlower- How lucky were we that our one striker worthy of the name didn't have an injury hit season, eh? 94.4% appearance rate! If luck had gone against us we could have easily ended up crossing that fine line into 5th place.

  136. Westlower

    Apr 29, 2014, 11:14 #50413

    Let's give some credit to the team for coming through an injury hit season only 7 points short of completing an unlikely double. AFC have lost 7 games, Man C, Chelsea & Liverpool 6. It's a fine line that could so easily have gone our way when you consider that the following players only started a limited amount of PL games. Ramsey 52.7%, Wilshire 50%, Ox 16.6%, Theo 25%, Gibbs 63.8%. What is it with young British players & injuries? Those with the most appearances are Szczesny 100%, Giroud 94.4%, BFG 94.4%, Sagna 88.8%. The absence of pace & power from Theo & Ramsey impacted on Ozil's performances. We need to build the team around his vision & passing. He's right up there with the best passers I've ever seen in an Arsenal shirt.

  137. Jimmy

    Apr 29, 2014, 11:05 #50412

    The cracks have been papered over again for another season.The mighty 4th place has been achieved.So there will be no change in the summer.Wenger will stay the vast majority of this team who are only good enough to finish 4th will remain.The world class striker we have been crying out for since RVP left will not be signed.The spin in the next week will go into overdrive that we have qualified for the CL for 16 years running.Big f**king deal.We have as much chance of winning the CL as Millwall have.The thousands of empty seats for the West Ham game and last night prove the fans have had enough.We need a total revolution at this club or it will be 4th or 5th forever more

  138. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Apr 29, 2014, 11:04 #50411

    Hmm….progress? It's a difficult one. The two previous seasons were a fight for fourth place. This time around it's been secured (relatively?) early. MU's fall from grace has certainly helped in that respect, along with the Spuds finding their more-natural level in the greater scheme of things. Certainly it's pleasing to see the supposedly-winnable games actually being won, which hasn't always been the case in recent years. But oh, my, was the title ever there for the taking this season. Had there been a genuine will in the summer and especially January, we'd be looking forward to some silverware being lifted around 3.45 next Sunday. It's not nice to laugh too much at other clubs, but I'll make an exception for NUFC with their "big club" mentality and Pardew for his previous.

  139. Ron

    Apr 29, 2014, 10:57 #50410

    Good win and needed Kev but to be honest, my 12 year old boys team would have given Newcastle a game mate wdt they! Disgrace to so called 'top level' football are Newcastle. Why do fans put up and spend hard earned money on these con jobs? Amazing really isn't it.

  140. Bard

    Apr 29, 2014, 10:52 #50409

    Good post as usual Kev. My sentiments exactly. Good win but Newcastle were next to useless. I read Maureen has taken 14 points out of a possible 18 against the top sides. If we'd got half that number we'd be right up there. It's obvious the team needs a major overhaul to compete against the big boys but our protracted transfer negotiating policy is likely to work against that. I see he's already hard at work with the injuries excuse.