With Arsene, you know what you are getting

Reach for the sky? No, the ceiling will do



With Arsene, you know what you are getting


My father loved to tell the story about a Yorkshire manufacturing company at its AGM, when the accountant voiced an opinion without being asked. The shocked chairman looked at him and told him in no uncertain terms to keep quiet as he was “nowt but scorer”.

My father also felt that as soon as accountants started to have a voice it signalled the “End of Empire” and the ruination of Britain’s manufacturing base. Other anecdotes thrown around are “if a salesman runs a company you end up with no cash and no business” and if an accountant runs a company you end up with “plenty of cash but no business”

The latter is much like Arsenal now, plenty of cash but no longer a football club. I have never liked accountants they always aim low and play safe. I used to work for a family business that was very efficient at producing tooling, the boss was an engineer who was a brilliant innovator and knew how to make goods for a price. Unfortunately he sold the business to a PLC holding company that was run by city accountants.

During our monthly meetings I began to realize that the constraints being put on the business by their “quest for cash” were going to ultimately ruin the business long term. The tipping point for me was when we needed to invest in new machinery to meet the growing demand for our products.

We had narrowed our requirements down to two particular machines, lets call them machine A and machine B (please stick with me on this) Machine A was a very reliable established bit of kit that would work day in day out at a steady rate and would give modest improvements to our manufacturing capabilities. Machine B was a new concept, very slick, exceptionally versatile and in the right hands would significantly improve our output and was the preferred choice of the production director and the technical department.

A “no brainer” you would think – well you think wrong, you see machine A came with cast iron guarantees as to it’s output, a maximum maintenance cost over a 5 year period and the quotation for machine A also gave overhead and running costs. Our money men loved it – it gave them comfort, solace and it also reassured them that it’s residual value over 5 years was X amount of pounds.

Machine A was purchased and our production only marginally improved, however our “financial Johnnies” were very happy because they knew exactly what this bit of kit cost them to run and maintain. That is why Stan Kronke and his board love Wenger, they can set their watches by him and know exactly how much the club will bring in each year.

As Everton gave up the chase at the weekend by losing to Citeh, more because the thought of their rivals taking the title would be just too terrible to contemplate, Stan got out the cigars as Arsene somehow again delivered Champions League football for the umpteenth time in succession.

You see Arsene is that machine A, steady, reliable and to the nearest £1,000 will tell you just how much running Arsenal next year is going to cost. Wenger gives the board “comfort” no shocks, no risks and flogs the odd player here and there for a good profit.

This steady cautious approach means he has a job for life, you see the one thing money men hate is shocks and the unknown and as we all know Wenger can get fourth place each year with his eyes shut! The problem is with “no risks” it also means no titles or trophies, except of course the 4th place trophy – unless this year...


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116
comments

  1. BADARSE

    May 11, 2014, 15:48 #51191

    maguiresbridge every market sets it's price.

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 11, 2014, 14:11 #51188

    BADARSE, how much is scrape worth these days?

  3. BADARSE

    May 11, 2014, 10:19 #51177

    GoonerRon, in a way, I liked that as much as the article itself, (no disrespect intended Adrian). How much would they give to have machine AW from the Alsace region of France, proven all over the world to achieve targets set with unfailing regularity.

  4. GoonerRon

    May 11, 2014, 0:02 #51170

    We could always try the Spuds approach - they are currently shopping around looking for Machine Z. Previous acquisitions that were demised include Machine C - a Swiss-made contraption that no one had heard of, Machine G - a product originating from Scotland but never truly disconnected from its previous owners, Machine H - a version they used previously but had a tendency to randomly break down and spout out silly things, Machine S - French produced but never outputted in English, Machine J - Dutch manufactured and harshly replaced by a French Machine S2 which turned out to be defective in English, Machine H2 - good quality output but replaced by a more up-to-date Machine VB that was unproven in England, which was in turn replaced by Machine S which was unproven anywhere.

  5. jjetplane

    May 10, 2014, 16:25 #51156

    Hiked a hundred forums/never found a home/still in all I'm happy/the reason is you see/once in a while along the way/Highburys' been good to meahhhhhhhhh! Have a banana! watch yer pcs laddieeeeee ..... Like I said before ye olde myth of Sisyphus - get yer back into it Bouldie - we're nearly there.

  6. BADARSE

    May 09, 2014, 21:58 #51118

    I already belong to the hole in the sock gang maguiresbridge. A funny thought just occurred to me when I play with my grandchildren the secret password is always Arsene Wenger. That would bar my entry immediately. Oh jjetplane now you are talking, 'My Way' by Frank Satre, he added such deep notes to his rendition, then Neil Jung with 'Southern Man'-loving it pal.

  7. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 09, 2014, 21:37 #51115

    BADARSE, no probs so if you feel left out and Ron agrees you can join our gang.

  8. BADARSE

    May 09, 2014, 21:19 #51114

    maguiresbridge, your hints are hilarious chum. I thought that's who you meant but I had mentioned GaGa so was a little confused. Yeah he is a pretty odious character, sadly there are so many. Money and status has allowed the spawning of this abuse. As a template for behaviour you can look everywhere around and get a sense of abuse happening right under our noses. Not going into a spiel though.

  9. Green Hut

    May 09, 2014, 19:19 #51113

    Westlower- Post no.54148- You're right financially it's not a level playing field, that's why I don't expect Arsenal to win the league or even challenge to the final week every season, but Wenger has long had the resources to redress some of the balance. Sorry but the Leeds reference smacks of be-careful-what-you-wish-for defeatism, let's not try because we might fail. Nobody wants the club to risk everything but Arsenal are a completely different animal from Leeds United. And I just don't get unconditional support for any club employee, if that's what you meant. I support the club unconditionally but support for any incumbent manager will always be conditional, although I backed Wenger long after he stopped winning trophies. If you were a Man Utd fan would you back Moyes if he'd stayed and finished 7th again next season and the season after that? What purpose would that serve other than to prolong the agony? Utd took a risk and it didn't work out but nobody died, the club didn't go under and now they move on with a better manager. You can be assured though that Wenger won't be aggressively forced out the door at any point as much of the 'classy' Arsenal fanbase of 2014 is far too meek, mild and passionless to allow that to happen. What to call them other than AKBs? Well I'm sure they don't all believe that Arsene Knows Best in every respect but they certainly do seem to think that Arsene Knows Better than any other available manager out there otherwise they wouldn't want him to stay (unless sentiment and guilt play a part, surely not) so the acronym still works and I would have thought it's a more pleasant label than Cult Of Wenger member or Wenger's disciple but if you can think of one more up your street then I will be very happy to occasionally use it. Anyway nothing personal mate, love your tenacity but just don't agree with you on very much.

  10. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 09, 2014, 18:54 #51110

    BADARSE, very surprised to hear that as your self and indeed a few others on here have a great knowledge of songs and artists but i don't blame you as none of us care to much for the artist, but how can i put it with out mentioning his name or promoting the song lets say the first word is Do and the last is Gang any help?

  11. jjetplane

    May 09, 2014, 18:19 #51107

    Think Miff (sic) and all is explained. What we need is a left bank Camus type with a norff lundun sense of humour. Step forward lowly Martinez? Step back Mista Wenger - too far! Oh dear..... How big is that table and let's be french and ask - 'is it really a table?' For Wenger see Satre .....

  12. Martyn

    May 09, 2014, 18:14 #51106

    There was a good article in the Telegraph the other day that was saying something similar to your opening paragraph. Arsene Wenger decides, no questions asked!

  13. BADARSE

    May 09, 2014, 17:34 #51105

    maguiresbridge sorry I appear dim but I have got no clue who you are referring to buddy. jjetplane, but he isn't a Parisian...and I am very pedantic on this point, is a Parisian plank thicker due to it's depth of existentialism or it's width of uncertainty. Sometimes I can't see the wood for the wood!

  14. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 09, 2014, 17:12 #51103

    Another one? thick as a Parisian plank, jjetplane your killing us stop it please.

  15. jjetplane

    May 09, 2014, 16:50 #51100

    One myth to bed please. Just because he's french does not mean he is intelligent, world weary, existential, dub ba dub a bub. Whenever I hear him I think he is as thick as a Parisian plank. He is a poor English version of Spud Tim! Knew you would like that! On another note Maureen looks a lot greyer in that white top. Time he started wearing the grey jumper and navy jacket beloved of serial losers everywhere. Talking of serial losers, Ronaldo and Messi ..... Let's hear it for Langney Wanderers! Way ta ****in' go!

  16. Gaz

    May 09, 2014, 16:22 #51099

    I hope Charlie stays here foever. His posts are hilarious...

  17. BADARSE

    May 09, 2014, 15:54 #51097

    FPGooner I'd love to have your 20/20 vision, clarity of thought, hyper intelligence a self-confessed ability to win all arguments. Was that me to you? No, it wasn't, but it was quite dismissive. It was Ron's to Charlie. I have reread Charlie's posts over the last two articles and beyond the focal point of not towing the party line, and being a bit boisterous and challenging in a young way, (memories of JAMIE), on occasions, (not all), his offending comments were generalisations to all in general. None personally aimed. I know what this young man, and I believe him to be a young man, feels. As I painstakingly tried to illustrate when all around are kicking your manager do you not step in if it seems unfair? In real life, in a group possibly a trio perhaps begins slagging off Arsenal, would you not contest it? Especially if what they were saying seemed completely one-sided? It creates rancour. It can create an attitude which is the polar opposite of the safe and secure majority view on here who seem to all get in a circle to begin a slating session. With self-congratulatory back-slapping and endorsements of posts of vitriol. You know you wouldn't recognise me in real life, but I am just a chap who loves Arsenal, been through famine and feast with the club, and always tries to find a good word for people or things-and that ain't easy sometimes. I stand by what I said, noble words or not. I would naturally feel more comfortable and support a person who leans in my direction, you do the same. As for being in a dwindling minority, well who is to say? Yet even so, I am comfortable being in the minority. I am in the minority with most things. It has never phased me, nor will it. At the same time I would prefer to be in the majority if I felt it was a good cause. Whoops pulpits and sermons? A nice post though, so thanks for that.

  18. Green Hut

    May 09, 2014, 15:33 #51095

    Westlower- Post no.54145. I've no reason to doubt his words either as he was merely stating the universally known fact that we have stadium debt and giving his opinion that we shouldn't throw money around. What he definitely wasn't saying was that he was personally under instruction to make a £15m profit on transfers every season. At the same time that you've convinced yourself he was being starved of cash Keith Edelman was twice publicly offering him our entire £70m cash reserve to buy players! In any case, within reason it really shouldn't matter what it says on the balance sheet, if the board say you can spend then you can spend, and in this case they have continuously. If you choose not to do so for moral and ethical reasons that's fine as long as you're either winning trophies or seriously challenging. But if you're not, there's a problem. A big problem.

  19. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 09, 2014, 14:59 #51092

    BADARSE, we're all fond of tunes and lyrics on here so i was going to give you a few lines that would have been appropriate but then i realised who the disgusting human being that sung them was so i won't. But i'm sure we're all bright enough to work it out even if we have a genetic deficiency.

  20. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 09, 2014, 14:23 #51087

    Wow Charlie's a genetics expert now, it comes as no surprise as his messiah thinks he's an expert in everything too. Or maybe it's to long sniffing his own product.

  21. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    May 09, 2014, 14:13 #51086

    [email protected]; oh you can be sure they'll find something to salivate about. Remember, if Norwich beat us 8-0 and WBA lose 8-0 at home then Norwich will stay up! And if West Ham score first at Etihad they'll be coming in their pants. Actually I've learnt to live with all the hype, Stelling has a director yelling in his ear telling him when to go into apocalyptic mode for instance. Far, far worse, is the BBC's text coverage online. A fairly simple save is turned into Gordon Banks a la 1970 with that lot. Anyone can be an online journo nowadays it's not too hard.

  22. FPGooner

    May 09, 2014, 14:08 #51084

    BADARSE- Post No. 54170, Noble words, if they were accurate. But, alas, no. I can understand why you would wish to stand shoulder to shoulder with someone on your side of the fence, but lets look at the situation. Most on here are respectful, debates can get heated, but when someone's last few posts are 'I'm pretty sure these people carry some kind of genetic gene that makes them unable to see clearly and can only see what they subconsciously want to believe is the truth', 'on here and in life being a complaining bore seems far more trendy than a positive outlook. Put me in a room with ten downbeat gooners and I'll win an argument with the lot of them.', then they have attracted a response. There is no restless lynch mob on here as you have indicated in your present victim mode. I welcome all sorts of opinions, particularly those differing to mine because I may learn something, but not when it is stupid and aggressive. Then, you will find that people will respond. It is not by chance that you and Charlie find yourselves in a dwindling minority, but there is no question of people on here not tolerating views different to theirs, but my advice to Charlie is not aim a kick at others, knowing that he does not have the arguments or the wherewithal to protect himself and has to rely on you being in the same corner, to speak for him.

  23. BADARSE

    May 09, 2014, 14:08 #51083

    Ha ha maguiresbridge, I shan't watch that now as you've spoiled it for me by telling me what's going to happen. Actually I shall be watching my grandson play and plugged into GaGa on the touchline.

  24. Ron

    May 09, 2014, 14:07 #51082

    Sadly BADARSE you're way off beam again. This is the Charlie who at his braggart best was denouncing all comers yesterday as people, ten in fact i think it was, who he would easily destroy in argument and today whom he deems to have genetic disorders. A bit like you decrying me the other other day as having a 'dual personality' or some other florid tosh you dreamed up (that was mightily civil of you fella wasnt it?), merely due to me challenging you. Are you in partnership with the learned Charlie as co psychologists or some thing as it was noteworthy that you were there, as is your want, hailing Charlie as one who you 'liked'. You show the same characteristic's as him at times. Fair enough, like away till your heart is content, but please keep your double standards private and don't expect me to share them. i say double standards as there are few on here who get more spikey and arsey than you do when you're challenged or your views aren't seen as gospel. Most of us who challenge Wengers worth don't abuse the guy either. Just the opposite. I suspect you've selectively chosen one or two posters who you might have seen who do abuse him to try and strengthen your post here though.You really should get off that high horse of yours.Its so fraudulently moralistic and sanctimonious. I'm pretty sure you're aware of stones and glass houses etc etc. Maybe you should pay heed to that principal a wee bit?. This a footie message board, not the local Sunday school you know. Drop the pulpit and sermons please. Not too sure many are persuaded by it.

  25. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 09, 2014, 13:58 #51081

    BADARSE, yes and it will be interesting to see how sky are going to market and promote the last day of the season this year what's Jim (licks his lips)white going to get all excited about how's he going to fit all these wow's in,there can be no super duper Sunday, with relegation sorted top four sorted and the prem sorted well as good as, there will be no need to head off to the Emirates back to old Trafford over to Stamford bridge with Jeff Stelling acting like he had won the lotto, with a couple of screens going at once what's the Merse, Charlie, and co going to shout and get excited about. I suppose if somebody even farts at the Etihad we'll hear a scream and a big thing will be made of it they haven't much else. But i suppose they could always have a good laugh at that scouse git Thomson.

  26. BADARSE

    May 09, 2014, 13:47 #51079

    KC,in keeping with my previous post I shall continue the theme, because it's my view on things. I fully understand your misgivings and frustrations concerning TR, I share them, but perhaps to a lesser degree. It's funny but that's how we assess things, our own unique way of processing the information, isn't it? I have lost count of how often people have 'told' me that it's cold. I clearly don't feel the cold in the same way as them, or it may be a glass half full variation. So it may well be you and I process the same info and process it in the same way with you arriving at one point, me at a slightly different one. My problem and reactions comes when I am told that I am wrong. Not different, just wrong. The type of player and the function of his job within the team lends itself to the very criticisms you outlined. I weigh and reason that it happens with this type of player. It did with Jon Sammels, Charlie George had his critics, George Graham, Graham Rix, Alex Hleb, the list goes on and on. One thing we concur on is his age and perhaps we can squeeze another good term out of him. I hope so, his personal footballing journey has been a bumpy, injury-stricken ride.

  27. BADARSE

    May 09, 2014, 13:26 #51075

    Can I give some of you a pearl of wisdom in return? It is a fact that when a group attack an individual as in most posters on here attacking Arsene Wenger it brings about a natural response. Let me explain. Firstly there is a strong thread of reason behind most of the criticisms. I have said this on a number of occasions so am not a blinkered acronym. I accept, understand and respect the general consensus, whilst not in it's entirety agreeing with it. However the shape of the posts follows a distinct pattern. It is one of bad mouthing the manager and then anyone who opposes that view. When under threat, even from a negative unreasonable post, people tend to react. That is not that difficult to comprehend, is it? It is always thus. The anti-Wenger brigade are the aggressors. The pond is still, then a few ripples, then suddenly like piranha everyone is attacking the manager and woe betide any opposing posts. It does not occur in reverse, that of one individual posting criticisms of the manager and an army of people causing an avalanche of rebuttals.One foolish person has already suggested that I, and people who agree with my viewpoint shouldn't even be on this website. How inane. Now try a simple exercise. Re read Charlie's posts-not at all venomous. Check out the reactions to them-quite sharp, (and I am being polite). Then check out the insulting drivel offered to me personally on this article. As a summary the ant-Wenger posts have been rude to me the most, then followed by the criticisms to Charlie, then Charlie's critical post. It does really defy belief. I even got a jibe from Ron when he was having a dig at Charlie. It is all very puerile. Now does anyone consider that an insult? Check out what I have said and then I suggest you reconsider. Oh, and it isn't a personal criticism, but you know what they say about, 'If the cap fits...'.

  28. Stevieo

    May 09, 2014, 12:43 #51071

    I go to work and basically toss it off. My work is sloppy and I do the bare minimum. I am due for my appraisal. I will tell my boss that I am good at my job, and where I have ballsed up, not to worry and be positive about it. There's no point telling him the truth, because he'll only pull me apart. Unfortunately, my boss has eyes and can think for himself, so I doubt my speel will get past him. It's times like this, I really wish Charlie was my boss!

  29. KC

    May 09, 2014, 12:12 #51068

    Charlie - Wenger had funds when he sold rvp and song not used. Wenger had funds last summer and we waited until the last day of the transfer window for Ozil and got Flamini on a free. Wenger had funds in January again another freebie. We have made excuses for so long with him and the transfer market. Anyone can make a mistake but only a fool keeps making the same one.

  30. FPGooner

    May 09, 2014, 11:44 #51067

    Charlie, Charlie, Charlie, with your earlier attacking and antagonistic fighting talk, I thought you were going to come and destroy us with some unseen and stupendous pearls of wisdom. I was prepared to dive into the AKB camp after being won over by the irrestible power of your argument. What do we get? absolute puerile drivel that I feel guilty about laying into. One piece of advice, Charlie. Being positive is a good thing, but not always. The positivity a lemming shows as it cascades over the precipice may be misplaced. The positivity a turkey shows for Christmas, may also be misplaced. Sorry, one more piece of advice. All of us were once huge fans of Wenger, but no more. You too may one day see the light. But then again, I am not sure you can see anything with your 'genetic gene'.

  31. Same Old Same Old...

    May 09, 2014, 11:41 #51066

    ARGUABLY WHO WAS OUR MOST CONSISTANT PLAYER ALL OF THIS SEASON ? BACARY SAGNA AND GUESS WHAT HE IS LEAVING

  32. N4

    May 09, 2014, 11:27 #51065

    @ Ron 54088 - you're spot on mate and well put about badarse - I really think that he needs a site just for him and his akbs friends!

  33. KC

    May 09, 2014, 11:22 #51064

    @Badarse - Football and opinions! I think I may be in the minority when it comes to TR. I get frustrated at his end product, lack of goals, assists, loose passing and of course the injuries. I appreciate his quick movement of the ball and quickening the pace but again if we are to move to the next level I dont think we can rely on players like TR. Although I do think this has been his best season for some time.

  34. Charlie

    May 09, 2014, 11:22 #51063

    What's wrong with Wenger quoting positives from the season anyway. If Wenger sat there and said Arsenal were ordinary and he didn't think we were capable of winning anything everybody would pull him apart more. The title could have been won by any of the top four with only seven points difference between them, Arsenal in fact were 16 points behind United last season this year only seven between us and the leaders with only Liverpool improving on last years performance which you could say they were due after the money they've spent and the years of mediocrity. This year is the first time Wenger has had real money to spend and if he wins the cup and the reasonable league campaign-that's not bad. I expect us to be even closer next season with more funds to spend though you can never predict anything in football as to whether anything will be won or not. No other team has consistently been in the top four and challenging over the last 17 years, all the other teams have had their peaks and troughs. To win things doing it the proper way brings in far more praise and respect than just buying up everything monopoly style which in my book is as bad as ref baiting cheating and diving.

  35. Ron

    May 09, 2014, 11:21 #51062

    Charlie - Id love to have your 20/20 vision, clarity of thought, hyper intelligence and your self confessed ability to win all arguments.Noted your earlier post. Alas, im a mere mortal. C'mon fess up fella, you're either an Oxford don or a Q.C at a top London Chambers aren't you? Pop into the medical faculty though and one of the cleaners will tell you that a gene can only ever be genetic. Failing that ask BADARSE , hes already one of your fans i see.

  36. Gaz

    May 09, 2014, 11:09 #51061

    @Charlie: 'I'm pretty sure these people carry some kind of genetic gene that makes them unable to see clearly and can only see what they subconsciously want to believe is the truth.' Gonna throw that one right back at you with interest pal!!!...

  37. KC

    May 09, 2014, 11:00 #51060

    @Charlie - Wenger has finance refuses to utilise it, we get constantly beaten by our major rivals sometimes in a humiliating way. We flater to deceive and each season is a repeat of the last. Perhaps your happy to be fourth and watch us get stuffed, I want us to be competitive and act like the club promised with the stadium move. It may not win us the title or the Champions league but we would at least know the club is doing all in its power. Do you leave the ground after a defeat and just sigh "oh well there is always next week"?

  38. FPGooner

    May 09, 2014, 10:27 #51059

    Charlie Post No. 54150, you have been making derisory remarks about posters on here. It is your prerogative to be sycophantic and blindly obedient to Wenger. To many and the numbers are growing rapidly, we do not see a 9th year of not winning anything, to be ignored. Another season where we have seen our coach again outfoxed by his rivals. Another year where the achievement of 4th place has been the target. Referring to earlier comments, I have been of the belief that Kroenke sets 2 targets to Wenger; 1, Maximum total spend and 2, Achieve CL qualification. There are many other coaches who are superior to Wenger in tactics, man-management, shrewder and more competent at player purchase. But, unfortunately, they would be unwilling to go along with this charade of minimal player investment and achieving 4th place, while the balance sheets indicate a very healthy cash surplus. So, while there are many people who do not question Wenger's integrity, it is time to start questioning it. Charlie, back to you, questioning is one of the abilities that has pushed mankind forward - to constantly question and improve. I may have missed your reasons for Wenger still being coach after 9 years of abject failure for a club of our size and standing and another season of heavy defeats at the hands of our main rivals, but I would like very much to see how you justify Wenger still being in his job. Let's all be sure that you are not 'carrying some kind of genetic gene??? that makes you unable to see clearly and can only see what you subconsciously want to believe is the truth'.

  39. WENGER OUT

    May 09, 2014, 10:15 #51058

    Charlie - As a self confessed WOB, I viciously defended Wenger up until about 2009. I can recall heated arguments with friends who would tell me that Fergie or Rafa were better managers as well as numerous blogging tet a tets with scousers on the old Setanta website. Unfortunately Wenger has let me, and all others that have defended him throughout this 'transitional period', down. It was not a transitional period at all, but a new, sterile, self-perpetuating status quo. I started to see this is 2009 and since then I have witnessed season after season of gutless, clueless performances from a team full of, at times, exceptional players. It's the manner of the defeats and not the fact that they occurred which has turned me against Wenger. At least Tony Pulis and Sam Allardyce teams fight until the end and give everything for their supporters - Wenger's teams have accepted 4th place mediocrity with barely a wimper and have routinely exited the biggest competitions in England and Europe with a detachment bordering on disrespect. Finance and statistics are boring - Pull yourself away from the stats for a minute and weigh up the substance of our performances over the last 6 or 7 years. If you can get above 2 hands in counting the number of performances you're truly proud of, then I will be surprised.

  40. BADARSE

    May 09, 2014, 9:48 #51057

    Nicely scripted post 24601. It is a very good summarisation of the situation. This is troubling my id. Everything is well-ordered and sensible with clear cases tendered and responded to. I feel a Jabberwocky moment in the offing. Good old Arsenal. Here is a little kernel about myself. A number of years ago, perhaps five? I was watching Arsenal in a nearby pub. I knew a real committed Gooner who frequented the pub so I was supposedly amongst friends. We were losing and our little Mozart was having a dreadful game. Now he is my favourite player, this guy also knew that. He began to berate Tomas, and kept it up throughout, insisting that he was finished and just not good enough for Arsenal. I kept countering but the atmosphere wasn't good. Then we got a penalty and Rosicky took it and missed, remember the game anyone? The guy went bananas and redirected his wrath at us losing the match at me; he used Rosicky as a conduit. The mood became toxic as I gave as good as I got. We see each other every so often and bid hello to each, but I will never go to that pub again, or watch a game in his company. Ironically one or two in the family know the story and from time to time when Tomas does well they remind me that he was finished years ago in the game he missed the penalty. Football? It's something I am trying to kick!

  41. Charlie

    May 09, 2014, 9:41 #51056

    Westlower. It really is impossible trying to convince many on here that all is not as bad as is made out. I'm pretty sure these people carry some kind of genetic gene that makes them unable to see clearly and can only see what they subconsciously want to believe is the truth. One told me recently that facts and statistics mean nothing to him and he believes only whatever he want's to, so where can you go from there.

  42. Westlower

    May 09, 2014, 7:45 #51054

    @Green Hut, Further to my earlier post 6.25am it's worth remembering Man City have 'overspent' to the tune of £149m in the past 2 years. Hardly a level playing field is it? We all want AFC to do better but the competition has never been stiffer in the PL. In the past 23 years since it's inception only 5 clubs have ever won it. The title has never gone to Merseyside or the poor half of North London. Take away the mega rich finances of Man City & Chelsea and the title would still be fought out between Man U, AFC & Liverpool. For the majority of AFC's title wins there has usually ever been one other club to contest the title with, historically Man U, Leeds & Liverpool. Leeds reached for the moon to soon and collapsed. Gladly, because of prudent management that will never happen at the Grove. We have much to be thankful for. With reference to suburban myths, what of the ridiculous handle of AKB's. We all support AFC but along with that some of us support the incumbent manager, whoever he maybe. Should the next one be called FRED, will you label me a FKB? Let's not become West Ham and aggressively force the manager out of the door. AFC are classier than that. Sam Allardyce anyone?? I could then be a SKB!

  43. Unchives

    May 09, 2014, 7:19 #51053

    To make the Finance clear to everyone. Arsenals mortgage if you could call it that is £23 million annually. A certain amount of cash is required to be kept in reserve as required by the banks involved in the loans. The cash reserve for player purchase is as of end of November 2013 @ £120 million. Player wage bill is £165 million on a projected turnover of £330 million. Wenger does not have a player budget but has total control of who he brings in or sells and decides player worth in or out.

  44. BADARSE

    May 09, 2014, 6:59 #51052

    Morning all, and I prefer the friendly exchanges Ron, they are fruitful. Let's keep it that way chum. Funny thing is we more or less see the ensuing season through similar eyes. Nothing is written in stone so an odd or peculiar occurrence favouring a club,(or not), is always possible. This brings me to the thrust of this post. In general most who post on here are aware football people, which is where the confusion for me comes from. To summarise we have an environment in which TV bosses the sport, this is the case because they clamour to sell a product. They do this by marketing a vacuous competition, the CL. They do it in a typically modern 'sell', by dressing it up in fancy wrappers and smothering in sugar-coating. The pubs act as 'pushers', and the 'fans' lap it up. It becomes too big and overblown. Thatcher worked in a chemistry food lab before politics performing a disreputable set of experiments-trying to expand ice cream. The Mister Whippy ice cream followed. The standard of the product was questionable but it was bigger, therefore you must get more! No, it was full of air. So too with the CL. Now we have the table set, with CL fare at the top of the menu. The TV companies pay huge sums to the CL, and they are therefore committed to giving mercenary amounts to the clubs to ensure the TV cameras are allowed into the grounds. Everyone wins! Not quite. With the adage of, 'There is no such thing as a free dinner', the fans pick up the tab. Round and round goes the gravy train, and we who moan about the ugliness it brings cannot connect that it is us who funds all that we abhor in modern football. This scenario brings with it a 'safe' environment. The owners at AFC are overjoyed and the remit is obvious, so Arsene Wenger delivers it unswervingly, with an amazingly adept style. Keeping the brand high profile, with good players and a sleek finished product. It is a conundrum. I defy anyone out there griping, faced with a job description demanding the same outcomes not to try to perform in the same fashion. I despise all that brings us to this juncture and have done for decades as I saw it developing in society and now my football team. It is here to stay until some innovation alters the ground rules. This is where I find it frustrating. I see it as clearly as this, I understand human nature, and I do not rant at what is reflected from my mirror. I am responsible, so too are you. I can explain this in gobbledegook if anyone prefers.

  45. Westlower

    May 09, 2014, 6:25 #51051

    @Green Hut, It was interview on SKY Sports that he referred to the need for the club to make a profit (£15m was the figure quoted as the average figure required)in the years after leaving Highbury. The only two factors that AW could influence were transfers & staying in the top 4. The commercial side is nothing to do with AW. You may wish to call it a myth but I've no reason to doubt his words. Should AW become Director of Football he'll no doubt work closely with the new coach on how to strengthen & improve the team. What else would a Director of Football do? AFC never have been 'big' spenders, preferring to develop young talent, topped up with a few established signings. We still employ a relatively rigid pay structure but Wenger can only advise the board on such matters and it's merely conjecture who has the final word.

  46. Ozzie

    May 09, 2014, 6:17 #51050

    Also Adrian, the avoidance of challenge by playing safe and not taking risks cripples potential which applies as much to the collective as well as the individual. These "owners" are nothing but parasites.

  47. Oldgooner

    May 09, 2014, 1:10 #51048

    Congratulations to Adrian. This is a brilliant article and sums things up perfectly. It is probably a given that most people would select the tried and tested model. It is also true that no manager can guarantee BPL and CL victory. But it is also true that the people who have the foresight to go that step further are the ones who will get the biggest rewards. I have the highest respect for Arsene Wenger but I really believe that now is the time to bring in an innovative someone who is prepare/allowed to take us that step further.

  48. Ron

    May 08, 2014, 23:56 #51047

    GH - Yes, thats how i recall its context too mate. I dont know, but i remember thinking at the time it sounded like a bit of a useful self fulfilling handle for AW to slip in there and use. Maybe he meant it as fact.Can never be sure about any of the noises that emanate from that place.

  49. KC

    May 08, 2014, 22:59 #51046

    Good post. We do have an owner who is not a supporter hence the difference in demands from the supporters and board. I don't buy that wenger is given financial targets and told to meet them. My guess is that he gives them what they want and they feel lucky to have him. They also respect his football knowledge as they do understand it is far greater than theirs. This is where the problem lies for us supporters he has so much power and no fear from above and he knows that fourth keeps his boss very happy. As a fan I want him to utilise the money that is there but it is his prudent, stubborn and principled valuation mindset that is his worst enemy as well as ours. He could have spent certainly most years(although restricted) certainly far more now. Will he? I think yes but I have said that most end of seasons. The owner is not stupid and appreciates a top four successful club will generate greater turnover. Do we really believe he had to sell rvp and song to balance the books, no he sold because one wanted out and he wanted rid of another. The transfer money is there and there is only one person to blame for not utilising it A Wenger.

  50. Green Hut

    May 08, 2014, 22:56 #51045

    Ron- I know the one you're talking about, was hoping Westlower was going to bring it up. During a press conference conversation about transfers, Wenger made a general comment about us having to make £15-20m a year. He was then asked to clarify and he stressed that he was referring only to the club as a whole having to make that money to pay the stadium debt and flatly denied that his hands were tied re transfers. Unfortunately that denial has not stopped the Westlowers of this world turning the episode into a suburban myth.

  51. Ron

    May 08, 2014, 22:32 #51044

    GH - If i'm not mistaken i think he said it himself about 2 seasons back or somebody was attributed the 15 mill quote. Cant be sure, but i recall its mention some where. In fact i thought it was 20 mill? Westie?

  52. Green Hut

    May 08, 2014, 22:19 #51043

    Westlower- Where did you hear your story about Wenger being told to make £15m profit a year?

  53. Westlower

    May 08, 2014, 21:54 #51042

    @Ron & Bard, I'm not suggesting AW is a toothless manager. He obviously reigns supreme on all footballing matters. My experiences working with Yanks both in Europe & USA are that they are very demanding task masters. I'm not privy to what goes on in the boardroom, other than what I read. The story goes that AW was charged with returning a profit that averaged £15m p/a to balance the books to help repay the new stadium loan. Wenger's greatest achievement in my view. Staying in the CL was key to hitting yearly financial targets, being worth somewhere in the region of £200m in the past 8 years. Hopefully the next manager will reap the rewards from the foundations AW has been instrumental in laying. The club will doubtless be financially managed in the same prudent way but as supporters we hope a new coach will be given free reign to impose his own style on the team as AW does right now.

  54. Ron

    May 08, 2014, 21:53 #51041

    BADARSE - A very reasonable set of assumptions there. Liv have certainly gained by Utds 'abdication', Credit due as maybe they saw an opening and seized the moment better than others. In truth, i reckon they've got lucky by holding Suarez and then Sturridge created a good foil. The rest of their team is ordinary really.their luck is a bit like how Ferg got lucky when 3-4 of his kids all developed together and created a team backbone in the mid 90s. The CL bolted on will see Liv unseeded and thus in a really tough group. Lets see if their wave remains with the same swell as you suggest. Everton really are only fractionally better than under Moyes, but their play has given them a sheen and thus a better perspective for people to take when looking at them. Man Utd are a conundrum. I felt last seasons title was more about how chronic others were (plus VP s goals) than how 'good' they actually were, hence Ferg knew it too and got out. They ll be better under a braver coach but need 5/6 new players to come in and gell.Tottenham? Their 100 mill failed shopping frenzy has created for them a great big re build job, that they maybe never had before they spent it. Too far from there to get a top 4 place next season i suggest. Chelsea are close to being a great side. Mourinho has stated to oust the old guard but done it with feeling and dexterity but with a top forward they'll be the big threat and possible title winners next time. The issue for Arsenal is thats small margins apply. Wenger will see this likely status quo as you do, but with a run of the ball and a bit of luck, some team cd nail a place down who might not have been expected too ie perhaps Utd or Tottenham say. Arsenal have to strengthen, just have to so to insure themselves. He cant keep relying on kind fixture combinations and other teams running out of steam as they've done for a few years now. Its like russian roulette doing that. Will Arsenal push on? Anybody's guess, but the last 5 years suggests more of the same and a hope for the best policy.

  55. BADARSE

    May 08, 2014, 21:26 #51040

    Not addressing anyone in particular but I do think people need to rein in their assumptions, which may well be wide of the mark. This season is evidence enough of how things do not go to plan. The expectations of a number have been that the two money clubs will occupy two CL berths. That is a very reasonable guess. That Man U will return with a vengeance though? Quite possibly, but it becomes another transition time for them next term so it carries a slight doubt. Liverpool are assumed to be a top four team on this seasons evidence. Well I am not so sure. I think it may be a case of after the Lord Mayor's Show for them. The danger is that the more people talk them up then the more it becomes accepted as a given. I see big question marks over their season. Everton going to power on? Possibly but again I have to see it to believe it. Then there is Arsenal. The Tiny Totts will be knocking on the door again, but I don't think they will find a way in. No one else is invited to the party. So once more, if the money men are nailed on certainties it will be any other two from five. Once more I would see us doing just enough to claim that fourth place again. It will be interesting.

  56. Bard

    May 08, 2014, 21:17 #51039

    An interesting idea Westie but somewhat contradicted by the idea that Wenger never listens to anyone about anything. I would suggest the blind loyalty and obedience is more an extension of your own uncritical and somewhat slavish mindset on matters Arsenal

  57. Ron

    May 08, 2014, 20:41 #51038

    Westie - Youve hit the nub of the debate really there. Whatever arguments we all put up and however much we re cycle the same arguments or re phrase them the issue of whether Wenger is simply obeying orders like some work camp SS commandant or interpreting orders,ironically also like some work camp SS commandant, within answer to that unknown lies the truth and explanation of whats gone on at the Club. I dont know whether youre right. I suspect you're not but can't prove it, i can only guess from what i see, same as youre doing. He does have form though for doing this before at Monaco. He ploughed his own furrow there like this, so i gather. Hes a very intelligent chap and can make people see things his way, do things his way. Its for that reason that i cant see Wenger blindly towing the line or accepting dic tat that he doesn't agree with. Can you, truthfully? Surely his pride wouldn't allow it and hes got bucket loads of that as we know. If you're right, and you might be, then all i can say is that hes got 7 million reasons each year to help him button his tongue at the weekly Board meeting, which we know he attends. Odd in itself?

  58. vin nice

    May 08, 2014, 20:03 #51037

    Yep I agree a 'cash cow' which stan is happy to milk the problem next year is with a resurgent liverpool and you would expect united coming back into the fray is that 4th place will be challenging as we can assume city and chavski will take 2 of the places In the past our only genuine challengers apart from Everton has been spuds who came close a couple of times then bottled it when we needed them too So we do need to strengthen this summer as your right not winning silverware won't bother stan too much but no champions league would

  59. Green Hut

    May 08, 2014, 20:00 #51036

    Chris- Thanks for the 'credit' mate but there comes a time even for Wenger when a comment so silly cannot have been meant to be taken seriously. You obviously haven't watched video of the press conference or you would have seen him grin as he said it, but I certainly don't deny that Wenger is capable of humour, in fact I refer you to my post 54117 as proof.

  60. BADARSE

    May 08, 2014, 19:34 #51035

    Wow Ron, where did that come from? You seem determined, without my help, to become the Tony Pulis of the Ronline Gooner.

  61. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 08, 2014, 19:03 #51034

    Gaz, of course he is mate, and he does, it's another way of sticking two fingers up at the fans and letting them know he's the boss and won't be told what to do. And just wait until we win the cup it'll be even worse, my god he'll be unbearable.

  62. Chris

    May 08, 2014, 18:55 #51033

    Fair play to Wenger if he is on a wind up re the stamina league but I personally doubt it. You guys can't have it both ways anyway - either Wenger is totally oblivious and unself-aware, as has been stated many times here, or he reads onlinegooner and a few other sites, knows what will annoy Gaz and GH and has decided to bate you. I have to say I think GH's original diagnosis of lack of self-awareness is slightly more likely. Wenger did come out today and say "Citeh won the marathon" - which I would have thought required a bit of stamina...

  63. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 08, 2014, 18:44 #51031

    jjetplane, your certainly in with a shout yourself, and the relegation battle will be interesting if not a forgone conclusion but make sure you take all the stats into account, but i'll be happy with fifth place myself rather than the coveted fourth place trophy i don't like celebrating nothing.

  64. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 08, 2014, 18:27 #51029

    They're coming thick and fast today, another one from Don't Piss On Me, is he on drugs? it would explain a lot but we all know his drug.

  65. Stevieo

    May 08, 2014, 18:20 #51028

    The company’s had some fantastic pieces of machinery. Unfortunately, we haven’t utilised them to their full potential, as our foreman was intent on employing inexperienced agency staff around our top equipment. This led to the machinery overworking to compensate for the YTS staff, overheating and burning itself out. Fortunately, we have some serious competitors in the same industry that realised this machinery would be a serious asset given the right tools. As we cashed in, this enabled our competitors to bring home the bacon, so everyone was happy. So, on to replacing the sold machinery. Machine A or machine B? How about option C? The backstreet garage around the corner has a piece of unproven machinery, which if no one wants, we can have for nowt if we wait 12 months. So we run the factory by hand for 12 months, promise everyone it’s worth the wait, while still adding to our cash reserves. The following financial year we try the machinery out, and realise that we’ve been stitched up like a kipper. Not to worry, there’s a piece of scrap machinery rusting away in the backyard we can use. Although written down to zero value, we are tied in to a five year £52k/week maintenance contract, which prevents the Rag ‘n’ Bone man taking off our hands. Wheel this rust bucket back in, and debate for a further 2 financial years which piece of junk is the better. The weekly costs of paying for these scrap items are given a new wording in the financial accounts, known as ‘transition costs,’ spread over roughly 8 years. Thankfully, the Commercial Dept still has the ability to convince its customers on an annual basis that the end product of a Fiat Punto is still challenging and up there with the Ferrari Testarossa, enabling our foreman to carry on his good work.

  66. jeff wright

    May 08, 2014, 18:16 #51027

    lee arsene fc, why don't you explain how those clubs will not be stronger next season, this will be like another Wenger excuse on the unfairness of life one big yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnn ....

  67. Martin Hayes

    May 08, 2014, 17:38 #51026

    @Willie Young - I played up front for Arsenal a few times in the last 30 years. Even I realise I'm nowhere near Giroud's level of technical ability, first touch, hold up play, work rate, finishing, heading and (wait for it) speed.

  68. lee afc

    May 08, 2014, 17:31 #51024

    JEFF WRIGHT......explain to me on which basis that Liverpool, Chelsea and man city will be stronger next season ..do you already know who they are signing and selling? have you got a crystal ball? your comments just sum up your total anti Arsenal stance and, in all honesty, it's getting very, very boring....yawn.

  69. WENGER OUT

    May 08, 2014, 17:31 #51025

    Wenger's recent comments - "I have suffered enough with this football club" - I'm sorry what? Over £7m a year to manage a football team and you've suffered? Defies belief!

  70. Green Hut

    May 08, 2014, 17:25 #51023

    Gaz- Kalou is coming mate, Wenger will pester him until he does.

  71. jjetplane

    May 08, 2014, 17:12 #51022

    Well - it's getting to that time when the trophies are being handed out. Who will win the Poster's league (PL) on our beloved forum. There has been much competition from MacGuire, Green Hut, FP Gooner, SG, JEff Wright, the Bard and a host of others but at the moment I have Ron with 93 pts just nudging in front of Gaz with 89 pts. We will get to the relegation battle next time. Perhaps you have been watching it all season.

  72. WENGER OUT

    May 08, 2014, 17:02 #51021

    Green Hut - Sounds like something a specialist in failure would say. Maureen really has his number ay! I haven't heard Mourinho mention the fact that they won the top 6 mini league yet, Wenger would want knighting if he pulled that one off.

  73. Gaz

    May 08, 2014, 16:57 #51020

    @Greenhut: We were talking about those ridiculous comments at work ealier and I genuinely believe he's making them now in a stupid attempt to annoy those critical fans he knows are out there. Of course in his world they're only a small minority (but far bigger than he thinks) and he probably gets a kick out of thinking those who worship his every move are laughing alongside him. You wait we're gonna get 'Diabys a new signing' before you know it...

  74. Green Hut

    May 08, 2014, 16:48 #51019

    Wenger clearly feels brave enough now we're about to win the FA Cup to mock those calling for change with ridiculous comments such as 'we won the stamina league'. That's fine, as long as he understands that it will stick like all the others until he produces with all his riches a team capable of seriously challenging for the title.

  75. Highbury Boy

    May 08, 2014, 16:38 #51018

    Ron (post 54104) I am not saying I agree with the "glass ceiling" ,self imposed or otherwise, though I think in reality it should be called what it is:the owner's risk/reward strategy. As a fan I would have loved Arsenal to have really gone for it this season when the top clubs were in transition but Stan and Arsene went for the safe option. Arsene is not going to change his ways including tactics and as he is the safest pair of hands Stan can ever hope to have at the helm I suppose the Tony Evans (54098) hope is the only viable option ;i.e. Stan sells out to Usmanov or another shareholder with a riskier strategy who appoints an ambitious young manager with different tactics who invests in the squad. As Tony says it could though be a bumpy ride.

  76. jeff wright

    May 08, 2014, 16:29 #51017

    It's a happy coincidence for Wenger that finishing 4th can provide the money to keep Stan happy and himself with him being happy enough to have another shot at winning the Champions League .The double whammy in this is that he doesn't have to win the Prem to do it ,if he did then he would have to change his modus operandi from the current one that he employs. He could be in trouble next season in the league with United back on the premises and Chelsea /City stronger plus Liverpool as well. United's absence saved him from finishing out of the top 4 this season , he can point to the number of times we were top of the table but this is just papering over the cracks , it's the individual results over a season that count in the end and not a run of them at specific times . City have been the side who have topped the table least,but will finish top, and that's what counts in the final analysis.

  77. Machine A

    May 08, 2014, 16:24 #51016

    Be careful what you wish for.

  78. Westlower

    May 08, 2014, 16:23 #51015

    Having worked for an American owned company for many years I can assure you they are very conservative & demanding. The bottom line dictates, deliver set targets on time & budget or you're out on your ear. I'm certain AW has his objectives set from Stan & the board & delivers consistently. With American owners also in place at Man U, Liverpool & Villa I await their next moves with interest. Of those three, Randy Lerner looks the most likely to jump ship. Henry at Liverpool will be buoyed by this season's success & new CL money will excite him to invest heavily. Man U have had their had forced by a dismal season & will invest heavily to appease the stock market. How will Stan respond? Business as normal I would suggest. What's his incentive to change a successful multi-million, proven model that is revered world wide. Why fix something that isn't broke? Only if we look in danger of dropping out of the elite CL would we see heavy investment at AFC. I believe the majority of Gooners wrongly blame AW for AFC's lack of success. He is merely carrying out his orders from above, and doing it exceptionally well from their perspective. AW's replacement will have to be conservative by nature as AFC don't countenance high risk strategy's. German national manager Joachim Low probably fits the ideal American profile. Whoever the new manager is I'm sure he'll be working to the same format, set by the board, that AW is currently working to. The game has changed significantly since the big money boys took over ownership of football clubs. IMO people who label AW as a dictator are wide of the mark. Stan & the board dictate what happens at AFC, AW is the conduit between them and the team.

  79. Gogooners

    May 08, 2014, 16:22 #51014

    Why are we ignoring the left back position? i believe it's an area that needs to be strenghtened because Gibbs will spend half the season on a treatment table while Nacho doesn't cut it for me. I also hope we keep Sagna and TV5.

  80. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 08, 2014, 15:56 #51012

    Last post was in reply to Ron, 54091

  81. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 08, 2014, 15:42 #51011

    Ron, yes but where's his balls.

  82. Ron

    May 08, 2014, 15:27 #51010

    Highbury Boy - Yes, the glass ceiling, part self imposed, part imposed by external factors.True. Do you think though that the Clubs choices are cast in tablets of stone and totally governed by the existence of the big cash Clubs? Many of us simply think (yes, we may all be simpletons accepted!) that Arsenal can progress beyond their glass ceiling without trying to compete for the stellar players in the markets that those Club's shop at.Its calls for better management at the top, better player choice when they are brought in, better coaching perhaps and better tactical nous and certainly more attention to other teams tactics with whom we directly compete. Wengers limitations aren't all about the size of his cheque book and never have been as i see it anyway. I do accept though that its each to their own and that many if not most supporters of lesser Clubs would be happy with their lot if they matched Arsenals. I think in time though that their acceptance would wane, as has mine, and be challenged so to look if the glass ceiling is permanent or not. Ours is an old glass ceiling and thus many of us are fearful of giving it a few sturdy taps to see if its breakable or not. Wenger and the Club are slyly looking through it at us daring us to want some thing different.Its analogous to the old Guinness adverts, where the paupers stared in through the windows to the 'haves' guzzling the nectar inside.

  83. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 08, 2014, 15:27 #51009

    Real world, hear what your saying but could the board not just put the same demands on a brand new shiny slick machine B instead of trying to add parts that don't fit to a tired old worn out out of date machine A.

  84. Highbury Boy

    May 08, 2014, 14:53 #51008

    I don't know why you need such a complex analogy, Adrian. It has been very simple for years,certainly ever since Stan became the controlling shareholder. Stan owns a number of sports franchises of which Arsenal is but one. He has never been a fan. He is a businessman. His company and family take relatively little out of Arsenal each year though they do have the right to propose dividends. He has decided he will make his money when he sells his shares. The shares will continue to soar in value if the Arsenal brand continues to flourish around the world. Successive seasons in the CL brings £30m plus pa revenue and constant exposure on the widening world stage. It matters little in financial terms whether Arsenal finish first or fourth as long as they qualify for the CL. Similarly the Cups matter to supporters who want to see their teams win trophies and have bragging rights but it's all about the Top 4. Players too don't want to see their wages drop and also want to play against the other top European sides. It's bonus time for Wenger and Gazidis in finishing 4th. If there's a risk (such as after the Villa game) in not getting that Top 4 slot they will push the boat out to buy a star. In January it was odds on that we would get Top 4 so no reinforcements apart from the injured KK were thought to be needed. The view is obviously held that a bid for any "super quality " player we go after will be trumped by a bid from City,Chelsea,United,PSG etc so we have to wait to see what's available at the end. No doubt the young full back from Ivory Coast will join and there will be replacements for TV, Fabianski,Bendtner and perhaps Podolski but it is difficult to see where real improvement is going to come from. No doubt Wenger will be able to convince a sizeable number of fans that a stable squad (no stars leaving) plus an improved medical regimen with carefully managed rest periods will improve the injury record which in his view was the main reason for falling short this season.

  85. johnnyhawleylovinggooner

    May 08, 2014, 14:50 #51007

    So you would prefer to have the Leeds utd model and follow a dream,or the man city model of the late 70s/80s or perhaps the Chelsea model pre oil money or maybe liverpool's effort at running a susessful team and build a new ground?are they still building at Stanley park or make do and mending?the clubs that finish above us are oil clubs or played15 games or so less at CL level.infact Liverpool should of sold us their star player and banked the money to kick start the ground improvements and bought an up and coming star like arsenal a properly run outfit had to do.will Liverpool meet FFP?who cares .we have problems but I am not sure they can be left at the door of the money men

  86. Don't Piss On Me & Say It's Raining!

    May 08, 2014, 14:49 #51006

    Big Andy, it's not just this year we've been extremely lucky. If it wasn't for the Spudz being the Spudz we would have been 5th two seasons running and even then we had to rely on pretty much 2 own goals from the West Brom keeper in one of those seasons. Arrgggghhhh!!

  87. Tony Evans

    May 08, 2014, 14:33 #51005

    My hope is that Kronke will start realising soon that he should cash in on Machine A now when his shares are riding high and he will make a huge profit on his investment; allowing Usmanov and a new manager to switch production to Machine B. OK it may be a bumpy ride but surely that has got to be better than the continual 4th place trophy and at least we can all start dreaming of titles again.

  88. Don't Piss On Me & Say It's Raining!

    May 08, 2014, 14:27 #51004

    Wenger, Evening Standard 'The maximum we can lose the league by this season is 7 points' Oh, that's all right then! And to the same team that did us 6-3!!! And 'We have been top for 128 days so we won the stamina league' Is hhe on drugs? Do I really have to justify myself not only to outsiders but to some of my kindred lovers of Arsenal (not Arsene) FC as to why I want this arrogant has been out? It beggars belief!!!

  89. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    May 08, 2014, 14:09 #51003

    well, as a part-qualified accountant myself, allow me to defend their corner. We work unloved, un-noticed (except when the expenses are being paid or someones wages aren't right) putting plenty of behind-the-scenes work in that keeps the company running smoothly, whilst trying to stop everyone else's excesses. Without us every company in the country would be bankrupt several times over. So, your point is what exactly?

  90. Big Andy

    May 08, 2014, 13:57 #51001

    Great article. The one point that Wenger and everybody else at Arsenal is missing is that the landscape in the Premier League has now changed. We were extremely luck this season: had United not decided to select David Moyes as their new manager then we would not have made fourth. Next season we will not be so fortunate. With the resurgence of Liverpool we now have five teams chasing four places - and five into four doesn't go. Wenger will now get his new contract, but he won't see it out: my guess is that the moment we drop out of the top four he will be ruthlessly axed. What a shame that the club didn't show some more ambition by getting rid of him this summer and bringing in somebody who could do better that fourth.

  91. WENGER OUT

    May 08, 2014, 13:55 #51000

    Ron makes a good point, the best companies in the world spend millions on research and development. Do they do that so they can stick with the status quo? They do it so that they can stay ahead of the game and beat their opposition to the punch. I'd be interested to see where machine A sits when you look at trophies/spend rather than points/spend. I would suggest that our competitors have left us far behind. 2nd highest turnover in the prem yet 'we can't compete'? Hmmm... Hurry machine B through R&D and get it operational ASAP.

  92. Ron

    May 08, 2014, 13:54 #50999

    The Real World - Good stuff. Indeed they do it like that in the real world. The primary pressure on the Board is the route as you say. The fly in the ointment though at Arsenal is that Mr Wenger is conflicted. His own position is akin to a Board Member and ( we don't know of course) his agenda maybe aimed at becoming one. His views as he so often gives them, proves that he sees the Clubs money as his own, his interests, theirs and so on. Any message the Board took cognizance of will therefore only be discussed with him and not imposed on him. Its quite unhealthy, dangerous even for a business to elevate a staff member to such a level where he calls the shots and results in stagnancy. This is from where much of the criticisms of the Club derive. Its a testament to AWs intelligence and 'political' nous that he's 1. manoeuvred himself to where he is and 2.is able to sit astride the fence with a foot in each camp.

  93. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 08, 2014, 13:50 #50998

    AYLESBURY GOONER, Gaz's post wasn't the only one that raised a laugh yours did too, don't know if sky sports are taking the piss out of him or what, good one, they must be.

  94. Bard

    May 08, 2014, 13:40 #50997

    Adrian, I thought that was accurate and succinct. Arsenal have been a business rather than a football club for some while. Compare and contrast Chelsea since Abramovic took over. Yes he's spent shedloads but he wants the club to win trophies. He would never tolerate Wengers excuses and love of mediocrity. I have posted before that nothing will change while Wenger is bringing in the loot. Much of the debate and argument on this site hinges on this issue. There are those that get what you're saying and feel cheated and betrayed and those that prefer to turn a blind eye to the lie the club are peddling and cling to his excuses for lack of success.

  95. Ron

    May 08, 2014, 13:37 #50996

    A nice little analogy Adrian. With running a business though, if the decision makers slavishly stick with machine A, eventually its g'teed output will stall, business will be lost and eventually fail. When it fails, the asset (machine a) is worn and worthless and its product dated and unwanted. There will come the time when machine B has to be bought, perhaps when more knowledge of its track record is known granted. Not taking that leap of faith with machine B means stagnancy and being non competitive, albeit while the firm gathers cash in the remaining time that the machine remains useful. The clock is ticking for machine A though and even more so the clock ticks for the business owner who s fear and short sighted approach prevents them/him from raising the firms profile. To get closer to your analogy, the clocks ticking for Arsenals owners and Mr Wenger too, yet they, like your business owner show little sign of accepting it. Arrogance or is it just fear or is just the knowledge that they're time at the helm is just short term? Who knows. I suspect the latter for what's its worth. BADARSE - once again you sit there condescendingly in judgement of all that you survey as cast your doubts over others ability to understand. It seems that the implied critique of the Club and Wenger within the posters article has by passed you. I can only think that's why you've kissed Adrian's backside as you usually do when you find a kindred spirit to your own. You're not nearly so clever as you like to think you are you know fella. PS You're not the now deposed and discredited old Chief Exec of the CO - OP are you, in disguise? His business acumen was non existent too.

  96. MarkP

    May 08, 2014, 13:28 #50995

    ...and it's Arsenal, Arsenal FC...we're by far the greatest team......below the top 3.

  97. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 08, 2014, 13:21 #50994

    Gaz, another imaginary trophy i'm sure their celebrating already at AKB central command, i wonder do we get presented with it on Sunday maybe we'll see some bouncing and selfies, we must have a cabinet full of them by now it's a pity it's only that old fraud who can see them.

  98. BADARSE

    May 08, 2014, 13:09 #50993

    Many moonbeams ago a littlie named Snore Whiff, was listened to an old witchcraft, 'Eat Me Dates this applepick my dreary. It is a Coxey Orange Pippon.' So she toothed a bite and fell on a coffee without a lid, and the several dwarts came and cried their eyes out. Plop, plop, they went as they fallen on her boat race. Then a Pringle crept out of the bushwhack and snogged her awaken. Now Snore Whiff willenhall eating up a lot if the price is right anymoreover. She is much cleverly now bestrides, and would say if the dwarts asked as you were, 'Nay Avelanche Vinegar is the bestial mangle in anywhere else.' So no more in bitey but more in, 'Glow Hole Abseil', and 'Weasel winkle the Cub', alsore, 'Onner waste to Wobley!' Buttress her favourable would be, 'Be carpet what you fish for!'

  99. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 08, 2014, 12:51 #50991

    Your dad was spot on Adrian, our machine A has been in decline for some time the sooner it's traded in and up graded to a more slick up to date model the better it's been long overdue, and hopefully the new machine B will up grade some of the parts and useless spares left lying around all over the shop floor as well.

  100. Gaz

    May 08, 2014, 12:46 #50990

    @BADARSE: The thought of you and westlower comforting me is going to leave a disturbing mental scar thats gonna be difficult to shift :-)...

  101. Charlie

    May 08, 2014, 12:26 #50988

    Maybe machine B might be good for a season and then blow up.

  102. skippy14

    May 08, 2014, 12:25 #50987

    when we win the F A CUP we will be the 2nd most successful team this year . stop moaning

  103. AYLESBURY GOONER

    May 08, 2014, 12:15 #50985

    Good article Adrian and it certainly mirrors Arsenal of recent years. @ Gaz must admit you post make me laugh and yes he should be sacked for coming out with such nonsense and taken away by men in white coats never to be seen again. Furthermore on sky sports Wenger was commenting on the coaching of young English players.Don't know if sky sports are taking the piss out of him or what but what do I know I haven't work half a day in football.

  104. underacheiver

    May 08, 2014, 12:08 #50984

    Speculate to accumulate, that's exactly what Arsenal did in the days of Henry Norris & Herbert Chapman. The results were spectacular and have never been equaled.

  105. WENGER OUT

    May 08, 2014, 12:07 #50983

    Well put Adrian, it felt like a GCSE maths question at times, but thanks for writing. As an engineer and a lover of innovation and craft - by no means a money man - I am more of a twist than a stick man. Unfortunately you have hit the nail on the head as to why the board will never sack Wenger and as to what kind of manager they might pick as his successor - Steady Eddie. Sometimes I worry that AKB's are more a fan of stats that football. The only many who has competed with (and beaten) Wenger in terms of statistics is one Mr David Moyes, so make of that what you will (N.B. I mean over the PL years and I exclude Fergie as he has retired).

  106. Peter Wain

    May 08, 2014, 12:02 #50981

    we have finished 4th this year but as we have no interest in improving the squad and will only buy after the world cup and then only 2 or 3 players (replacements for Sagna Vermalen and Flappianski) we have no chance of the fourth place title so beloved by the board and Wenger. No doubt the Diaby a new player will get its annual airing shortly as well as the mantra top top quality and finally how difficult it is to buy players. This has to be the last transfer window for Wenger surely.

  107. Roy

    May 08, 2014, 11:49 #50980

    You don't say whether machine B, being a new concept, would be significantly more expensive to purchase in the first place, but of course I can see what your getting at and the analogy is basically a good one. Unfortunately, the days of " speculate to accumulate " at Arsenal have long gone ( that's if they ever existed ), and any kind of risk management strategy went out of the window a long time ago with the decision to build a new stadium. The problem is that this way of thinking has become totally ingrained at the club. It's like the final part of the grand plan ( you know, the bit where we end up being able to compete with the best in Europe ! ), has been totally forgotten. I don't purport to be any kind of businessman, but you can't really blame all those out there who now see that to be a lie.

  108. BADARSE

    May 08, 2014, 11:08 #50976

    @mofaya, as Michael Owen was only ever the best of the rest he would be well qualified to say. Actually the young man could have done with some of westlower's guidance, he wouldn't have burned so much money gambling then. @TheRealWorld, here was I posting trivia whilst you were posting one of the most lucid and best points of view I've read on here in a long time. Keep it up chum. The very valid point you made is that the emphasis for change has to be demanded of the board. Arsene, like it or not, would be obliged to follow a clear directive. Here's hoping some of the noises off have been heard by those who need to listen.

  109. max

    May 08, 2014, 11:04 #50975

    The problem at Arsenal is that we now have a total dictator in charge. With an absentee owner, weak upper management, and coaching staff who merely rubber stamp the managers strategy, why would Wenger leave this nirvana for his megalomanic ego. After the Chelsea debacle when he took time to consider his future the man should have said I've done my time it's now time for me to go with a little dignity. It's sad but I have a diminished respect for a man who says he loves the club but puts money and ego first.

  110. Mofaya

    May 08, 2014, 10:58 #50974

    SPOT ON!!!!!!!! THAT"S WHY I AM NOT WATCHING NEXT YEAR. Here is my prediction for next year. The BRILLIANT RAMSEY WILL HAVE A BRILLIANT INJURY FREE SEASON AND REAL MADRID WILL COME CALLING WITH 30MILLION POUND AND WENGER WILL TAKE IT. THE REPLACEMENT WILL BE A VASTLY IMPROVED RYO FROM JAPAN WHO NEEDS TWO YEARS TO FULLY MATUIRE TO RAMSEY;S BRILLIANCE. ARSENAL WILL WIN THE TOP FOUR TROPHY ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC TEC. ETC. ETC AD NAUSEUM!!!!!THOSE GUYS DON'T CARE ABOUT THE FANS!!!!!!!MICHAEL OWEN said Arsenal are the best of the rest and I concur and have lowered my expectations permanently!!!!!!!!SADLY!!!!!!!!!

  111. BADARSE

    May 08, 2014, 10:54 #50973

    Gaz, calm down! This isn't real-I keep telling you that. Now head between your legs, close your eyes and take some deep breaths. I'll bring a cold compress for your troubled brow and if you ask nicely westlower will come over and quote some statistics to you.

  112. TheRealWorld

    May 08, 2014, 10:51 #50971

    People who live in the real world will all buy Machine A. If the production director was using his own money, even he might be hard pressed to choose Machine B due to the unknowns. Unless, of course, Machine B was already a tried and tested brand/model, in which case the comparison the Arsenal is irrelevant cos we really don't know who's the successor to Wenger. We don’t have their track record to look at and say that he will bring us greater efficiency, reliability and, ultimately, a better output. I do get your gist, and it's a fair point you make that the board sticks with AW cos he's reliable in his ability to deliver (1) CL football, (2) a half a go at the league and (3) semi-decent cup runs. And I get the point that there’s no expectation or furious desire to win trophies, and no drive towards looking at someone who can bring us those trophines instead of AW. Those are fair and valid points. But the comparison you put forward is slightly off. Nobody buys no-name Chinese tablet computers. They are cheaper, the specs are as good as an iPad or Samsung. But there’s risk there… huge risk, as proved by one David Moyes. And that’s where your MachineA/MachineB comparison starts to break down. Don’t get me wrong… I’d love us to win trophies as much as the next Arsenal fan, but this is the Real World with 5th place staring us in the face and Spurs chants of “Thursday night Channel 5” just beyond airshot. And in the Real World, our reliable ol’ MachineA kept us in the hunt with mostly the same players that he had in 2012/13, plus one star. Plus he managed, largely, to get us winning the winnable games, unlike previous seasons. There’s progress there. So let’s be realistic for a moment and not get carried away by the press, cos they’ve always hated AW and look how they turned on Moyes after he was their Golden Boy for all those years at Everton. Let’s get back to the Real World where AW is gonna sign another contract. Let’s rather start putting pressure on the board to demand results, and to start demanding of AW that he should bring in new and trusted components to add to his MachineA so that it might start to resemble MachineB but with less risk. That’s how people in the Real World do it.

  113. Gaz

    May 08, 2014, 10:44 #50970

    Anybody heard/seen this absolute corker from Wenger today: "We have been 128 days at the top of the league, so we won the stamina league." For goodness sake he deserves sacking for that alone!!!...

  114. harshil k

    May 08, 2014, 10:29 #50967

    A great try to poach similarities with Arsenal. But i'll punch in a BIG hole in this, As you pointed out "Machine B would significantly improve our output", here my friend comes the biggest flaw in the article. There is no manager in the world who would guarantee a significant improvement in output (Trophies). No manager can guarantee CL place lets keep aside trophies.

  115. underacheiver

    May 08, 2014, 10:23 #50966

    Spot on Adrian. This approach by Arsenal is also good for some of the supporters who have dodgy tickers. They don't want too much excitement with their football. For some of us though its more akin to having a valium rammed down our throats

  116. BADARSE

    May 08, 2014, 10:05 #50965

    Thanks Adrian, your article more or less mirrors my perception of the personnel and the current club policy. The analogy works well but I wonder if many on this site can grasp the parallel-it may be all too mystical to absorb.