….They Might Be Giants!

Some reminiscence ahead of Saturday’s final



….They Might Be Giants!

2003 – A happier FA Cup memory


Once upon a time the build up to the coverage on FA Cup Final Saturday started as early as 11.30AM (look, see here for yourself if you don’t believe me kids!) in order to work the viewing public up to frenzy come 3PM. This year, come 3PM on FA Cup Final Saturday, according to the TV listings it will instead be when the build-up of the game begins. It’s rather ironic that, while the FA still insist that their showpiece Cup Final is of such importance that every neutral under the sun should still be able to make a claim on a Cup Final ticket (it’s not just this season that the competing sides have been given such a paltry allocation, that’s as much a part of the event’s tradition as the singing of ‘Abide with Me’ and the Duke of Kent’s raison d'être of handing out sports trophies in exchange for living on public funds), however its traditions are no longer important enough to prevent its kick off being moved to 5PM in the evening.

Call me old fashioned, but any kicking off on Cup Final day at 5PM should mean extra time and players randomly collapsing with cramp in the Wembley sunshine. However, the last thing any Hull City (not Tigers!) fans would want this Saturday would be extra time or penalties, seeing that their last train back to Humberside on Saturday will be at 8PM from Kings Cross. From experience, even if the game ends within ninety minutes, given the difficulties leaving the stadium after any event held there, the furthest they’ll get by 8PM should be the entrance of Wembley Park underground station.

Given the modern tendency to leave a game before the final whistle to beat the rush to the tube, don’t be surprised to see some panicked Hull fans vacating the stadium en masse before the end - such is that scourge on modern football that it may now infect the FA Cup final, thanks to typical ‘F.A’ foresight! It’s yet another nail in the coffin of the Cup Final’s magic, but hey, as long as the game doesn’t clash with the Scottish Cup Final between St. Johnstone v Dundee United at Hampden, or the post-match analysis of Southend United v Burton Albion (the only other fixtures played on Cup Final day this year) and, more importantly, as long as ITV can maximise their advertising revenue from the game, I suppose that’s the main thing. But rather than turn this into another ‘they ruined the Cup Final’ piece, here’s my article from two years ago – which sadly still largely rings true today, just in case anyone thought I wrote the piece in sour grapes back then.

Thankfully, the club have laid on coverage of the game on big screens at the Stadium this Saturday for many Arsenal fans to view the proceeds among a partisan atmosphere. A brave decision by the club however, given that come 7pm (or 7.45pm if extra time and penalties are necessary) should Arsenal fail to finally seal their first trophy in nine years, there a strong risk that maybe around 20,000 annoyed Arsenal fans within the stadium – as well as many others watching in their favourite nearby match day haunts, who are charging ticketed entrance to this game New Years’ Eve style –will be ready and willing to create an instant demonstration in protest, especially given the clubs decision to impose an above inflation ticket price rise for next season.

In all honesty, many feel that Saturday should be a mere formality that ends nine years of hurt. However, alarm bells should be ringing whenever Arsenal enter a major game as favourites. Maybe there’s something about Arsenal being within football’s elite for most of the years since the end of the first world war that means were attached to so many of these acts of giant-killing over the years. The wounds are still fresh from 2011 when even a longstanding gypsy’s curse wasn’t enough to guarantee our first trophy since Wembley was refurbished. The final stages of the competition that year looked easy on paper, as last year’s League Cup would have done had we got past fourth tier Bradford City - and surely you don’t need me to remind you of how that one turned out!

In all fairness to Arsene Wenger, this hoodoo isn’t something which started with his reign. It even afflicted George Graham. In the last four years of his tenure at Highbury, only winning the FA Cup in 1993 punctuated a period where Arsenal were eliminated by lower division opposition – Wrexham in 1992, Bolton in 1994 and Millwall in 1995 – for three years out of four. Even early on in GG’s reign Arsenal fans thought that beating Luton Town at Wembley was a mere formality to retain the Littlewoods Cup in ’88 until the hapless Gus Caesar tripped over a worm in his own penalty area. I vaguely remember Harry Enfield’s Arsenal supporting kebab shop-owner character Stavros, in an episode of Friday Night Live that year, being so disappointed by this result that he refused to fly abroad on holiday from Luton Airport and instead took a vacation in Bournemouth instead.

The earlier half of that decade saw even worse atrocities etched on memory – York in ’85 and Walsall two years prior which reprised an earlier humiliation of a much better Arsenal side half a century earlier. That defeat spelt the end for Terry Neill, who never really recovered from 1980 and the Cup Final defeat against second tier West Ham. That same season, Arsenal were eliminated from the League Cup against Swindon, itself another reprisal of an earlier humiliation in 1969 at the hands of a third tier side, where Arsenal failed to end a sixteen year trophy drought in a 1-3 Wembley defeat.

During those barren years, there was also an FA Cup fourth round 2-1 away defeat against lowly Peterborough which occurred on the same day as Winston Churchill’s state funeral in 1965 (unlike Princess Diana’s thirty two years later, Football didn’t cancel its programme as a mark of respect!) Arsenal however luckily dodged a bullet in 1956, after losing a two goal lead at home to non-league Bedford Town in the third round of the FA Cup. The replay amazingly saw Bedford lead until four minutes from time, when Vic Groves – Perry’s uncle – headed to equalise with Arsenal running out 2-1 winners after extra time. This particular game was notable for its second half being the first shown live on the fledgling ITV channel, Associated Rediffusion on a Thursday afternoon (as this Pathe news footage informs, so many Bedford office boys were ‘burying their grandmothers’ that day, that the entire town shut down to view the match).

As an historical overview therefore, it seems that in the post-war era very rarely have Arsenal been in a final where, even where a walkover is expected, it actually pans out as such. The only comfortable ride over a side we were expected to beat I can think of is Southampton in 2003, although it’s fair to say even winning the FA Cup that year was an anti-climax after blowing the league title to Man Utd just weeks earlier. That final doesn’t go down as one that sticks in the memory even for Robert Pires - whose goal sealed the cup that year. At a pre-match Q&A with Pires for an away screening at Arsenal last year, someone had asked him about ‘that’ goal against Southampton in 2003 as a career highlight, referring to the Cup Final. Pires answered in reply: ‘er…Southampton….you mean the 6-1?’ referring to his blistering – yet, aside from the inception of the famed 49 game undefeated run, ultimately meaningless – hat-trick at Highbury just a few days prior.

For the sake of my blood pressure, I’m hoping Saturday goes against the grain of past finals and is one-way traffic in Arsenal’s favour. In a reverse of the title of The Housemartins’ 1986 debut album, I’m hoping for London 4 Hull 0 and that 7pm on Saturday is a long-awaited ‘Happy Hour’ for North London’s finest. However should Hull win the cup as a result of a disputed goal, I’m sure that Steve Bruce would return Arsene’s favour in 1999 and offer him a replay!

*Follow me on Twitter@robert_exley

Ed’s note – Arseblogger Andrew Mangan has done a few good turns for me over the years, so now the chance to go a little way to doing something in return by plugging the launch of the new Arseblog title, Together: The Story Of Arsenal’s Unbeaten Season, which takes place at the Tollington Arms tomorrow evening (Thursday). Your chance to meet the great man himself and get a signed copy of the book.


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63
comments

  1. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 18, 2014, 13:42 #51589

    You certainly would now.

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 17, 2014, 12:34 #51533

    Robert your spot on ref the coverage, just had a quick trawl of all the channels before i go out and you wouldn't think it's Cup final day at all.

  3. BADARSE

    May 16, 2014, 15:47 #51510

    Rorz, the goal was offside. As the player received it on the far side he was at best level with Arsenal's last defender which as only Kelsey was closer to the goal, made him offside. Two men had to be between a player receiving the ball and the goal line-no level with in those days. A close thing though. Good to watch the clip.

  4. Rorz

    May 16, 2014, 15:39 #51509

    Watching that Pathe news clip of the 56 game against non-league Bedford Town. They were 1-0 up and had a 2nd disallowed for offside. Didn't look it to me. Can someone who knows what the rules were then please tell me if it was offside or not. I think they woz robbed. Perry Groves' uncle did well, scored one, made one.

  5. jjetplane

    May 16, 2014, 14:20 #51502

    Power to the people on here Robert. MG right you are and a win with conviction and some flair would be a good thing and then the prof can put in for a rise .... Goal! who saw that movie with Everton and ah come on class ..... 66 and all that Thunderball and monkey boots and the red dalek was de bolloxs!

  6. Robert Exley

    May 16, 2014, 14:01 #51500

    Er....excuse me, but why the **** has the comments page of my article descended into a debate about the ****ing Falklands/Malvinas? Bore off and find a forum for that. This is a Cup Final piece. The only Cup Final that that war relates to is 1982. And this is not a Spurs website

  7. Goose Green

    May 16, 2014, 0:25 #51482

    There are others on here who also take exception to read treacherous and frivolous comments. Yes, we are a democracy, something Argentina were not. There are thousands of people missing from that period of which numerous Argentine mothers still seek answers from the purges commited against political opponents by the Junta. An odious period in Latin American history came to an end precipitated by Britain's refusal to a fait accompli.The islands are British. Tbe inhabitants want to remain Brirish. Their claim to the islands is geographical. The whole world is geographical. There is a before, a now and an after. The islanders wishes must be observed and protected. If, these ever change than that is another era.

  8. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 15, 2014, 23:53 #51481

    BADARSE, no long winded spiel for a reply? now there's a first.

  9. Green Hut

    May 15, 2014, 23:42 #51480

    Thatcher didn't initiate the conflict, and a government of a booming Britain would've reacted no differently. The only contradiction here is the fact that the regime that ordered the invasion of the Falkland Islands had spent the previous 6 years relentlessly persecuting BADARSE's ideological brothers and sisters.

  10. BADARSE

    May 15, 2014, 23:30 #51479

    Saw through yours a long time ago Ron.

  11. Ron

    May 15, 2014, 23:17 #51478

    Badarse - Your reply to Green Hut leaves a bit to be desired too. Contradictory or not, you might do well to contemplate that you know nobody on here, yet there may be some who are close to those 1982 events that you've loosely brought up for all that you know or have relatives there. Choosing to pontificate about such issues on here risks a retort like GHs surely? Play with fire and you could always catch a burn. Youre letting your guard drop again with your spiteful response to him. You'll risk a few more seeing through your flannel if your not careful fella.

  12. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 15, 2014, 22:08 #51476

    jjetplane, no it will be Arsene alright with a big smug i told you so grin, and you know something regardless of what fans think of him and how good it makes him look (and he's certainly not that)i hope it is, because a win is what the long suffering supporters deserve.

  13. BADARSE

    May 15, 2014, 21:40 #51474

    Green Hut don't you ever tell me what to think or say. Your post is contradictory, and you display a narrow-minded nastiness which is not very nice. Keep your opinions to yourself. Try taking your own advice. Grow up!

  14. Green Hut

    May 15, 2014, 20:55 #51472

    BADARSE- Yes I'm sure by referring again to the Falkland Islands as Las Malvinas you weren't remotely aware that you were being disrespectful to the families of the 255 British military personnel killed in the 1982 conflict. If you can't bring yourself to call the islands that the Argentine government only gives a f**k about to distract attention when their economy's in a mess as the Falkland Islands, then just don't call them anything. This is a football messageboard not a platform for you to display how right-on you are.

  15. Desmond

    May 15, 2014, 19:47 #51469

    BADARSE, please stop being patronising and a bit of a bore on here.

  16. jjetplane

    May 15, 2014, 18:26 #51464

    Just had a siesta MG and it was Brucie with that 'just had a bottle of Grouse' look who came running at the screen - won't happen! Right!

  17. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 15, 2014, 16:50 #51458

    jjetplane, and his first words will be, while smirking and looking directly into the camera, i told you i was right, followed by i told you you don't need to spend money to win things, but he will very conveniently forget to add that it took him eight/nine years and all that went with it.

  18. jjetplane

    May 15, 2014, 16:29 #51456

    All in all a pretty boring season from top to bottom. Arsenal for once will be beat an inferior team easily ..... as long as ...... they (Arsenal) concede in the first twenty minutes. The Arsenal fans should be in their seats by then and with mucho tapas and expensive beers in their trim little business bellies songs will be sung from dummy cards and Jack will inform his team mates what the Highbury Henries are singing and voila - tic tac tic tac in the blink of an eye and it's 3-2 to one team or another. The Hull fans have already left though they were at Wembley overnight soaking up the atmosphere. The final whistle goes and here comes the first mass selfie and first up for an interview is the buoyant, bouncing figure of ..... Just get me sheepskin ...

  19. BADARSE

    May 15, 2014, 14:18 #51449

    My dear old radfordkennedy. You are a good man. Hope it doesn't embarrass you that an old wrinkly-albeit a handsome one, addressed you so, but you are. I remember when you thought I was having a dig when I mentioned Las Malvinas, of course I wasn't but shall always refer to them as such- 'my' principles, and nothing disrespectful to anyone involved, just governments. On a sad note much is still happening in the world which would qualify as an atrocity. We do these things to each other. Those wars are just milestones not signposts along the way. My Dad went to Spain to fight the Spanish Fascists, and wasn't allowed to sign up to fight the German variety-so he stayed home and prospered. I stood beside the small monument to the International Brigade near the London Eye, and it touched me-it is just a slender connection with my Dad, my hero. Typing this is touching me now chum. You tie up their hair for them, good man.

  20. radfordkennedy

    May 15, 2014, 12:05 #51438

    BADARSE..morning mate,read with interest your post regarding your visit to the bridge,speaking as someone who in the summer months earns a part time living as a Battlefield Tour Guide in France your reaction is not an uncommon one,in my experience people are more affected by stories of human endurance against pain suffering and torture than anything else.I know you don't do flag waving as you say so it must of been a very harrowing experience for you,The D-Day landings and the Battle for Normandy is my particular specialist field and like the Bridge of the river Kwai they must be preserved as memorials and reminders to subsequent generations that it must never in the name of God happen again....anyway I've got free time till monday so I'm off to get some yellow ribbons for my grand daughters hair for saturday..up the Gunners!!!

  21. BADARSE

    May 15, 2014, 10:15 #51430

    A continuation of the theme of Hara Kiri. Really addressed to julesd. My wife and I went back-packing a couple of times in Thailand. We went with good foundations as my brother is, and always has been, a very sharp traveller on all continents, particularly Asia. We one day found ourselves deliberating on which direction to take and finally elected to travel towards the River Kwai. We stayed nearby and spent a morning walking across the Bridge over the River Kwai, and it's surrounding area. We rarely book excursions wherever we go but did a couple whilst there. One a train journey which runs parallel to the Kwai and then rattles across it via the Bridge itself. Another trip whilst in the region was a surprising one for me-according to those who know me, but just not quite well enough. I don't do nationalism, as Billy Joel sang, 'Too many flags on the field', yet we booked a visit to the 'Death Railway' area. Many who knew me wouldn't think it my cup of tea, as it was connected with military, armies, war, etc. It was so poignant though, and I just wanted to tap into their suffering and show a sign of respect and solidarity against inhuman National machines, like the Japanese army at the time. We walked constantly holding back the tears. We walked along the leafy channel, jungle overhung, where the prisoners had to dig through solid rock, (granite-like). The picks, of course used by hand and there were sad reminders where picks had snapped or were unable to be released from the rock and remained as a silent testimony to their plight. It really impacted us for a couple of days after. Oh, and I bought a wheel barrow full of snide Arsenal shirts!

  22. Westlower

    May 15, 2014, 9:58 #51429

    More AFC FA Cup shockers: 1947 Bradford City 0-1 (H), 1954, Norwich 0-1 (H),1956 Bedford Town 2-2 (H), 1958 Northampton 1-3 (A), 1959 Colchester 2-2 (A), 1960 Rotherham 2-2 (H), 1-1 (A),0-2 (at Hillsboro), 1965 P'boro 1-2 (A), 1968, Shrewsbury 1-1 (A), 1975 York 1-1 (H), 1985 Hereford 1-1 (A), 1987 Watford 1-3 (H), 1992 Wrexham 1-2 (A), 1995 Millwall 0-2 (H). Who remembers in 1979 when it took 4 replays before we knocked Sheffield Wednesday out of the cup in the 3rd round? That was fixture congestion!

  23. Tony Evans

    May 15, 2014, 9:38 #51428

    Hopefully Saturday can be a day when we all forget about our frustrations with Wenger and just focus on Arsenal winning something tangible at long last. He is staying anyway no matter what happens in the final, I am sure, so I am going to forget about Wenger and damn well enjoy it - fingers crossed.

  24. Peter Wain

    May 15, 2014, 8:53 #51427

    WestLower I was talking about the defeats in the 60s. The 1-0 defeat was awful. A Geoff Vowden header which hit the post and went in. The next defeat was a replay we were leading at Highbury until fingers dropped the ball in his won net and Bob Wilson came in for him in the replay. Lost it 2-1. Still the defeat to Blackpool when we were 2 -0 up and lost 3-2 was also depressing.

  25. Westlower

    May 15, 2014, 8:32 #51426

    Next seasons all French strike force? Benzema, Remy, Giroud, Sanogo? Stories in today's papers of renewed interest in Benzema. Must be true as it's in the Mail & Telegraph, ha,ha! Another £92.87m in the AFC coffers from PL & TV money. Newcastle stating they can't compete financially with the 'big 6.' The multi-million pound football evolution continues unabashed. The commercial team have become as important as the coaching staff.

  26. BADARSE

    May 15, 2014, 7:20 #51425

    Morning my little yogis, that's just a gentle reminder that the Online Gooner Yoga class is tonight and will be taken by jeff wright, so affix those little coloured stars and moons to your noses and join us. So cross-legged on the floor, a Worzel Gummidge 'slice of cake' in one hand and two fingers of the other shown to the rest of the world and five minutes of chanting softly, 'We'll win the cup!' Please don't be late because jeff will take it personally and he will sink into a fug again. Magical words DW Thomas, stay with it chum, glad I managed to talk you down off the plastacine table in kindergarten yesterday.

  27. DW Thomas

    May 15, 2014, 2:27 #51424

    9 years and I am ready to jump off my couch should we prevail! Will probably kiss the tele and throw each of my young boys in the air! Can't wait. Haven't had this excitement for a game in forever. How about Diaby for the game winner? Wouldn't that be something? Or maybe Kallstrom? What I wouldn't give for that! And to see the old professor do a real celebration and not his usual half assed fist pump!

  28. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 15, 2014, 0:07 #51422

    Gaz, not to worry it's not the first time on here where some would have been talking to themselves.

  29. unchives

    May 14, 2014, 22:53 #51421

    Gooners....Gooners! One Team in LONDON! Come on the Cockneys!

  30. Gaz

    May 14, 2014, 21:54 #51420

    For me the only way we'll ever see the FA cup return to its previous status would be to give the winners the fourth champions league spot. I guarantee if that happened there'd be no empty stadiums or reserve sides on view. And quite honestly I think it deserves that because whilst it's just a slightly bigger version of the league Cup for a lot of us on here we remember it as THE trophy to win...

  31. Cam

    May 14, 2014, 21:27 #51419

    I have no hoodoos. We will win!

  32. BADARSE

    May 14, 2014, 20:38 #51418

    Pre-Cup Final night, I am organising a knitting circle for all you wooly supporters. Come on gentlemen discover your feminine side, but please come early. Ron will be on the door as the bouncer...bouncing! Let's have a practise run. Crochet hooks at the ready, and, 'Knit one, purl one, drop a stitch, pick it up again, and knit two purl one, sod it, dropped two, knit two, drop one, purl , sod it, dropped three, knit one, drop one, purl...oh forget it. Pre-cup final night origami class instead. So, fold and fold, and crease and fold, and bend and fold, sod it. Who's on for a pint instead? We're on our way to Wembley lads, all the way, yippee!

  33. Mike Collins

    May 14, 2014, 20:02 #51417

    This will be as easy as the 1988 League Cup final against a pathetic Luton Town team. OK, we don't have a defender as good as Gus Caesar this time but even so...

  34. Gaz

    May 14, 2014, 19:38 #51416

    @Tony Evans: I made it a triple whammy in 1980 by having a really stupid accident the night we lost to West Ham! Nothing serious but it could have been! Ultimately the only pain I suffered was that of a cute embarrassment lol!!!...

  35. BADARSE

    May 14, 2014, 19:09 #51415

    Wasn't he just jjetplane? Nice to hear from you Hibeegunner. My first final that I saw on telly was the 1958 one, on a tiny 10" (?) black and white screen. Fuzzy and distant little men in short trousers running around all over the show-I think they played the cup finals miles away in those days, perhaps on the moon. It was magical. Grubby kneed kids, sweat-streaked faces from playing footie in the yards, squares or streets. I didn't know the colour green existed until I caught my first glimpse of the pitch at Highbury, that just took my breath away. If some magically gifted individual or group, found a way to broadcast free of charge games to TV right now, then the whole house of cards would collapse, but I'm only dreaming, zzz, dreami...zzz..'BADARSE wake up, time to go to church to worship the great and indomitable SKY TV!' Oh no, it's a dream within a dream...'CL qualification is again confirmed', heck it's a dream within a dream within a nightmare...and I can't wake up!

  36. jjetplane

    May 14, 2014, 18:44 #51413

    Three and in with jumpers moved to a higher dimension on Cup Final day. Mud and glory in the back garden while the telly was warming up along with the kidney stew .... Wayfinders removed and plasters on knees and dear old mum saying stand up for the anthem you little ......s! Telly was a happy enough distraction. We just wanted to play more football. Nice piece there Robert and what a period drama that man Pires was.

  37. Hibeegunner

    May 14, 2014, 18:11 #51410

    Robert One small irrelevant fact to your post the Scottish Cup Final is at Celtic Park NOT Hampden Park as it is being revamped for the Commonwealth Games.

  38. HowardL

    May 14, 2014, 18:09 #51409

    Somewhere in my loft is the Peterborough corner pennant from 1965 - I did pitch invasions in those days. I was pleased to see the Os beat them yesterday!

  39. Mark

    May 14, 2014, 17:33 #51407

    I am still numb from Chelsea away...

  40. maguiresbridge gooner

    May 14, 2014, 17:08 #51406

    Yes Rob what do we expect from the TV companies. And your right there should be alarm bells ringing there really should, simply because we all know what we're like under pressure when there's actually something to play for what bottlers we are, but not this time it is a formality i don't buy this old fanny about it been a hard game, it might not be one way traffic but we'll beat Hull and we'll beat them well IMO, for the simple reason this is Wengers make or break game, one that could spell the end for him also, his get out of jail card and he always comes up trumps with that, without fail, and it will be no different this time he'll be let of the hook again, dodged another bullet thanks to the mighty Hull and a competition both he and his fans turned their noses up at and treated with contempt. As much as i'm looking forward to our first FA cup final in a long time and hope i'm right and we beat Hull and beat them well, and it will be what the fans deserve after all these years, the fact it may well keep this manager in his job will make it another anti climax or when the celebrating is done a sobering experience.

  41. Gaz

    May 14, 2014, 16:54 #51405

    Oops!!! Post no 54511 was obviously from me and not Ron! Sorry...

  42. Ron

    May 14, 2014, 16:34 #51403

    @Ron: that's a good point about watching it with opposition fans. That particular house I mentioned was full of Gooners, QPR and even Spurs fans! And yeah we all chose a side for the day too!!! @Everyone else: thanks for the kind comments gents...

  43. Gaz

    May 14, 2014, 16:22 #51401

    @BADARSE: With all due respect fella I won't reply to your post (the main point of it that is) as me and Chris have left that argument behind and I fear anything I say will only re-start it. Yeah we'll probably renew it again at some point in the future but not today!!!...

  44. BADARSE

    May 14, 2014, 16:18 #51400

    My first cup final was 1962, enjoyed the event and had no rancour that the team down the lane had won the cup. Went back the following year and they had put a lid on the old place. Returned the year after and stifled in the heat at the back of the stand. Skipped a few but was back in 1967 to see that mob win it again, the first, 'Cockney Final'. This fact has trumped many provincial Tiny Totts' arguments when I let them know I have seen their team win the cup more often than they have perhaps ever seen them live. Missed for a while because I was going to the Arsenal's League Cup finals in 1968 and 1969, then the two-legged final fot the European Fairs Cup. Back in 1971 for the Double, and made it five finals in successive seasons in 1972. 'Aye, but that were then. In them days we lived in t' cardboard box in t' middle of road, and sucked on t' piece of gravel for tea! Ah, them's were the days!'

  45. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    May 14, 2014, 16:11 #51399

    if the FA Cup final has to kick off at 17.00hrs and does not have its former lustre - it hasn't since about 1991 let's be honest - so be it and victory will still lift the monkey off the back and end lazy journo's pieces beginning with "9 years", plus Sky will have to find another part of the stadium to picture instead of the empty space next to the icon of the '05 FA Cup. I can remember York '85 like it was yesterday, and we weren't too clever against the even worse Hereford in the preceding round (York, even in the 3rd Div, did have a decent side then). Strange how no-one remembers Millwall (then also a 3rd Div side) beating Chelsea at the Bridge in the same round, but everyone remembers York. Come on you gunners.

  46. BADARSE

    May 14, 2014, 15:58 #51398

    Gaz and Chris, for what it's worth I like you both, and think you are both nice guys. I see more merit in Chris' posts because we share a similar viewpoint, which may be corrupted or out of focus, but share it we do. It is natural for me to be persuaded by the force of his argument because it is mine too, and I see much reason and logic in it, (more or less). There is a deep-seated error which pervades the posts of many anti-Wenger people, in this instance you wear that hat Gaz. I have touched on it before and it is difficult to make people aware of the sense of it but here goes, I shall try again. The Anti's attack the manager. Those not disposed to attack him, or feel they need to defend him, do just that-they are defending! We have aggressors and defenders. The trite acronym-calling, which I have challenged on a number of occasions is usually hurled as an insult. It is pigeon-holing of the highest order for the defenders, but not for the anti-Wengers. The latter do want Wenger out, ergo they are the WOBs the Wenger Out Brigade. Their attitude/objective is in their title, and would see no reason to brook any argument in being addressed thus. Those who ritualistically defend AW, like myself are not necessarily AKBs. The acronym is a misnomer, and somewhat insulting by reducing an individual's sense of purpose as a sheep.. This is fundamentalism in the shape of the idiot George W. Bush's attitude, 'If you are not with us, you are against us'. Wrong! I am not with you for sure, I do not want Arsene Wenger ousted. Yet as an Arsenal fan I shall support his replacement as and when it occurs. So that does not make me an AKB, because he doesn't always know best. If this salient point is grasped the ire from each side will subside. Of course it shan't be understood by many, so for those with intent I say, 'Custard pies at the ready, on the command "One", fire!'

  47. Tony Evans

    May 14, 2014, 15:46 #51397

    Gaz - like others have said I enjoyed your FA Cup reminiscences. As you say it always seemed to be sunny on FA Cup final day, and the three finals I remember most are the 1978-80 ones. Great times even though we lost two of them. The awful low after losing to Westham and then a few days later, Valencia, was dreadful but I still rate that period as one of the best.

  48. BADARSE

    May 14, 2014, 15:28 #51396

    Thank you Robert, I really like your writing. radfordkennedy, please don't ever grow up! Ironically enough, as the years go by I am growing down. (Stop it Spike!) Gaz, I firstly have to admonish you because I return and find you have sucked the ends of the jigsaw puzzle, making the pieces all soggy. The fact that they were only the four corners because you don't like 'pointy' ones isn't an excuse. Then you go and write a post like that, well done, ten out of ten my dear chappy. WENGER OUT what is that suspicious wet patch under your desk? Well next time just put your hand up, laddy! ' Excuse me because DW Thomas has climbed on the table and is threatening to jump again. 'No DW, not near the doll's house!' A Cornish Gooner, I could get to really like you, and why not? I like Cornish pasties, Cornish Dairy Ice Cream and am in allegiance with the Cornish Freedom Fighter's movement. As we sing, 'Every little tin she does, she does for me.' Good old Arsenal. Listen to the arrangement and John Lennon's voice on, 'I should have known better.' Superb!

  49. Westlower

    May 14, 2014, 14:38 #51394

    @Peter Wain, Apologies. Got my Birmingham defeats mixed up. Were you reminiscing about 1967 (0-1) or 68 (1-2)? I'm referring to 1956 (1-3). Throw in the LC final, what is it with AFC & Birmingham in Cup competitions.

  50. Westlower

    May 14, 2014, 14:26 #51392

    @Peter Wain, As a 9 year old the 1-3 defeat in the 6th round to Birmingham was like a dagger through my heart. I wasn't prepared for such a set back at that tender age. Right back Stan Charlton scored Arsenal's goal. Birmingham went on to be beaten by Man City 3-1 in the final. This of course was the famous Bert Trautmann broken neck incident after a collision with Peter Murphy. Man City beat Spurs 1-0 in the semi-final. Birmingham beat Sunderland 3-0 in the other semi.

  51. Seven Kings Gooner

    May 14, 2014, 14:09 #51391

    Hi Robert : Remember the Peterboro debacle - my first away game outside of London. Not only did we lose the game but I got chased back to the station by "the Posh Army" but was saved by an ex squaddie on the railway platform. This gentlemen (who turned out to be a paratrooper in WW2) told me never travel away with Arsenal on your own. Good advice and advice that I have passed down to my 2 sons. As for Saturday I think like many of us we just do not know which Arsenal will turn up so how can you predict the game!

  52. Lord Froth

    May 14, 2014, 13:57 #51389

    Great post Gaz - that's exactly how it was for me in the late 70s to early 80s. I'm still looking forward to the final mind you. I was going to go out to watch it in the pub but I'm now going to watch it with my 6 year old. Hopefully she'll see the glorious Arsenal lift the cup. Come on you Gunners!

  53. Ron

    May 14, 2014, 13:34 #51387

    Hi Gaz - a perfect summation. Football had a soul then. Can i add that we used to become 'fans' of one of the teams (inevitably the opponent of Tottenham!) for 90 mins didn't we, such was the occasion. Old enmities were put aside for 90 mins plus ET. Trouble now is that the likes of Sky and BT sport wdt class what you describe as 'good TV'.We now live in a world of 'punditry' and their dirge governs the whole thing. As it is, the FAC now lacks the polish and veneer that TV affords the Boat race. It was always an over rated Cup, yet the FA and TV impressing upon us all the reality of that has taken much away from football. If truth be known, top middle and bottom ended Clubs would all rejoice if both of the domestic Cup s were consigned to the annals of history. Great shame. Its all for the money now and the FAC gives the greedy bas---ds very little, hence their indifference.

  54. Peter Wain

    May 14, 2014, 13:28 #51386

    I was at the Peterborough game and we went one up. You fail to mention the defeats by Birmingham in the late sixties which led to a ruck between Furnell and McClintock after fingers dropped the ball in his own net.

  55. Spaced

    May 14, 2014, 13:24 #51385

    Gaz, I enjoyed your post more than the article! I have fond memories of the same.

  56. Gaz

    May 14, 2014, 13:11 #51384

    Enjoyed that! Was trying to explain to my daughter recently just how big an occasion THE cup final used to be even if we weren't in it! Remember as a kid going down the shops real early to buy crisps sweets and drink and if we were lucky the match day programme that some shops used to sell along with the papers. Then it would be round a friends house where we'd all excitedly watch the build up to the game. There might be a special quiz with fans or players from both sides taking part and then world of sport or Grandstand would start. There would be interviews, replays of old finals and visits to each sides hotel. Then a helicopter would follow the coach and there'd be a camera on board all the way to Wembley. Used to love the look on supporters faces en route to Wembley when they realised the coach with their side in it was passing!!! The players would walk onto the pitch to a delighted half full stadium and then just before the players made their entrance Abide with me would be sung with real gusto from both sets of fans. The cameras would pan onto the tunnel behind the goal where the players and manager would be waiting then they'd make that long glorious walk across the Wembley pitch where they'd libne up in their great looking tracksuits! They'd shake hands with somebody famous then they'd break off to their own end and take those tracksuits off and then KO. The game would be played in bright sunshine (it always seemed to me) and you knew the whole country was doing nothing else but watching. Half time would come and we'd go outside just to get some fresh air! Second half started and before you knew it saocks were rolled down to ankles and players started to flag. The final whistle went and one set of players fell to the floor whilst the other set went absolutely wild!!! The cup was presented to the victors and more joyous scenes were witnessed by the half of the stadium that remained.... Then me and my mates would get our football, go round the park, and pretend we were playing in THE Cup final. Magic...

  57. Ealing Gooner

    May 14, 2014, 12:58 #51383

    @Bobby - I was at the last 4 of those finals that you mentioned, it wasn't just that we lost, it was the way we lost, 3 last minute goals and a penalty shoot-out! Most of our cup finals are tense, tight affairs, even when we were coasting to a 2-0 win in 1979, we conspired to give every Gooner a 5-minute heart attack! The great team of the 1930s only scraped past a 2nd division team 1-0 in 1936. Recent form suggests a comfortable win, but we all thought that in 2011. I reckon we will come from behind to win 2-1, since it sometimes needs us to go one down to wake us up. As for the kick off time, I don't think it's just down to ITV's advertising revenue. Next year it will be back on Auntie Beeb, who doesn't do advertising, but will keep it at 5pm for the ratings. The days of endless replays, semis at Villa Park, Bruce Forsyth on cup final day have long gone, but it's incredible how the FA have ruined their own competition. If they need to get 70,000+ crowds for the semis to pay for building Wembley, have them at Cardiff and Old Trafford. Have replays 3 days after the first game, not 2 or 3 weeks later (sometimes on the date of the next round!) Get rid of the ear-shattering din before the game, let the atmosphere build up naturally. Give more tickets to the two clubs, if you want to reward the "football family", give them tickets to an England game or the Community Shield. I know some Arsenal fans (and at times, the manager) have dismissed the FA Cup as a worthless trophy in comparison to finishing 4th, but in 10-20 years time, I would rather look back at an exciting cup final win than trying to remember which game it was which meant we wouldn't finish 5th. As for giving the cup winners a Champions League place, there's more chance of the Premier League ordering all clubs to cut ticket prices in half than giving up one of those top 4 places!

  58. radfordkennedy

    May 14, 2014, 12:47 #51382

    Robert...great article mate stirred up some memories there,Charlies goal and the noise 8 years later when mcilroy equalised,years later me and my mates after being served by a perfectly charming young lady were heard talking by the landlord and promptly told to drink up and eff off in a pub in wrexham,but the most painful memory was ironicly after a victory against the mancs in 05,I didn't expect us to win so I wasn't party fit I didn't get on the beer till KO time so I wasn't warmed up enough for later that night when I ended up hurting my back up dancing with the wife to Mungo Jerrys 'long legged woman dressed in black'a valuable lesson learned indeed,so I fully intend to be on the Adnams Best by no later than noon....I will grow up one day promise

  59. Spike

    May 14, 2014, 12:45 #51381

    Yes - this is more like it OG! We are in a cup final ffs. I've been enjoying the buzz for weeks now and I've got my 6 year old excited at the prospect of watching his first AFC final as well. Agree with all the stuff about the kick-off time, no respect for the fans as usual, but I am still going to enjoy this one as much as the previous ones. COYR...

  60. Tony Evans

    May 14, 2014, 12:40 #51380

    Some horrible memories there, Robert, and I really do not want another one to add to the list on Saturday. I've a good feeling about this one though, but I should add that my reliable old gut instinct I used to have has gone haywire over the last few years so I am not reading anything in to it. Whatever happens you can bet we make heavy weather of it.

  61. Westlower

    May 14, 2014, 11:59 #51378

    Stirred some great memories Robert. One of my earliest was of 17 year old John Radford scoring at P'boro, only for Derek Dougan to get a brace at the other end. Charlie's goal in extra time & Sunderland's late winner provided two of the great moments in AFC history. I took 40/1 about us beating Man U 3-2, it doesn't get much better than that. Enjoyed a wonderful day out when we beat Newcastle, courtesy of Overmars & Anelka. Stopped off for a meal at Cafe Flo in the Haymarket on route to Wembley when this open top bus packed with singing Gooners passed by. Made the hairs on your neck stand up with pride. The mood was set and we were never going to lose that game. In contrast the trip to Cardiff for the Liverpool defeat was hard to take after playing them off the pitch & the ref not giving a penalty & red card for an obvious Liverpool hand ball on the line. Planned to spend the evening in Bath celebrating but cancelled the hotel room and stormed off home in a huff. The photo of Bobby holding the cup brings a smile to my face, as I had the biggest bet of my life on us winning that day. The bet was well into 4 figures and that was a decent amount of money back then. I must have had a pair of balls in 2003!

  62. Ron

    May 14, 2014, 11:06 #51374

    Good stuff. Its true that out of all of the so called 'top' clubs and despite our g;littering history we ve a dire litany of embarrassments to look back on as well. I reckon we ll win v Hull but extra time is almost gteed. PS KO time is a joke, esp for the Hull supporters and further underlines that the national stadium should never have been left at that hole. The NEC is where it should have been. All Motorway and airport links all on hand, central, room for extensive parking. The whole thing. Only corruption left the stadium at its present squalid and dismal site.

  63. HowardL

    May 14, 2014, 10:25 #51371

    An excellent overview, Robert. I can remember all of them!