The Fabregas dilemma

Is Arsene right to reject a prodigal return?



The Fabregas dilemma

It doesn’t look good


If all the reports are true Arsenal have turned down the chance to resign Cesc. He is currently being courted by Chelsea but others may join the bidding war. We had the chance to buy a world class midfielder for a knock down price by that I mean approximately £12m less than Ozil. We have too many similar players seems to be the reason. That might hold some water if they were all fit but with our injury record we are always light, hence the ludicrous loan signing of Kallstrom.

The counter argument is that we could sacrifice one of our other midfielders - Carzola, Rosicky or Diaby - to make space for him. None of them are as good as Cesc so why not sell them. Maureen comes to mind here, Mata was twice voted player of the year for Chelsea but Maureen got rid of him because he had a bigger picture in mind. What is Wenger’s bigger picture? Cesc is an Arsenal legend, a World Cup winner and a real warrior, he is 27 years old. The counter argument is that we already have Ozil. I like him but he is as yet not in Cesc's class. He may step up next year but he also may not.

Now comes the nightmare scenario, Cesc joins another of our rivals and becomes part of the growing band of Arsenal old boys who come back to haunt us. How do Wenger and the board assess the impact on us as a club and on the fans? To my mind this seems a PR disaster. The arrival of Cesc would have sent a message that we keep our own. That although the grass seems greener elsewhere our heroes always have their heart with us. This is the essence of belonging to a club.

But no, Cesc is deemed surplus to requirements and instead we will attempt to sign other as yet unknown players. Whoever they are they will neither love the club like Cesc does nor be half as talented he is. The question that the Wenger needs to ask himself is whether our other rivals would veto such a move.


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176
comments

  1. WENGER LOVES TO STRENGTHEN OUR SO CALLED RIVALS

    Jun 14, 2014, 22:21 #52926

    This man called mr wenger is NOW TOTALLY A JOKE. Why does he love helping our so called rivals win the league?? To let a player of Fabgregas level go to Chelsea is what I called another wenger MOMENT of Utter incompetence. I mean how many players have we ever bought from manure?? what about chelsea?? what about man city?? WHY IS IT ALWAYS ONE WAY?? We sold rvp to manure, nasri and now fabregas, yes I know he was not an arsenal player but we had first option to sign him which we did not. I love the fact that he released that statement about arsenal having the chance to sign him and we did not exercise it. WHY WOULD YOU PUT THAT IN TO A CONTRACT IF YOU DO NOT INTEND TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT?? WHAT A JOKE. 3 more years of excuses oh dear,dear. Why did this man not just walk away gracefully after winning the fa cup??

  2. Fabre Cash

    Jun 13, 2014, 14:37 #52849

    You just need to understand his relationship with the bird he's with. She controls him big time. They were only ever going to move to London and Arsenal said no. That woman will be his ruin..and John Terry will take great pleasure in making it happen..he'll be doing it for Frankie..

  3. James

    Jun 13, 2014, 11:17 #52841

    All of this is winding me up now! A couple of things...1) People are banging the drum about an unknown 19 year old french player...I'm assuming by that, this means that you would rather have a bank breaking signing? A world class talent proven at the highest level? An international superstar for club and country? Plays just off the front man and is a creative force? about £42 million's worth? Hmmmm.....i wonder where we could find one of them from? Arsene would never sign someone like that .....would he? NO! NO HE WOULDNT! Not seeing as we signed hat exact player last year!!! in Cesc's position we already have Ramsey, Ozil, Wilshere and Cazorla. Think we are pretty well stocked there and people would only moan that we need a defensive type of midfielder anyway!!! The player who i will now refer to as our former number 4, is a complete mercenary! There....I said it! and it feels good!!! lets say it like it is. He turned his back on us to play for barca. simple! did Tony Adams leave when we werent winning things? did Bergkamp? Did Pires? No. They stayed and were loyal. Our former number 4 wasnt! He himself has admitted that he had plenty of options...if he even remotely was that bothered about us he would have taken another option. Anywhere but with chelsea. Anywhere but the place with that horrible cretin who berates his former manager the way he does! Can we all stop pining for this mercenary now. I hope he has a horrible season, and you all should too!

  4. HowardL

    Jun 13, 2014, 9:12 #52831

    Carlos - I couldn't agree more. What a dire lack of judgment that we will regret big time

  5. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 12, 2014, 23:09 #52819

    Bard thanks for the first glimpse of Fabregas in a chavs shirt and we can get used to that pose too, against Arsenal no doubt.

  6. Carlos

    Jun 12, 2014, 18:01 #52798

    Now we'll find out. For what it's worth, i.e. nothing; I think the club and the fans will regret it deeply. He is a fantastic player with a point to prove.

  7. Lord Froth

    Jun 12, 2014, 17:15 #52789

    It's just been confirmed that Fabregas has now signed for Chelsea.

  8. Anti-Wenger

    Jun 12, 2014, 16:32 #52783

    If we're not buying him back, so why the 'buy-back clause' in the 1st place? An astute manager would ship off Diaby,Rosicky,Arteta and Carzola to free up wages. Bring in Cesc, Bender and offer opportunies to Zalalem and the other younger players to make up the numbers.

  9. DNA

    Jun 12, 2014, 8:48 #52757

    I for one think it is a huge error not to have Cesc back. he is a top top man and he loves Arsenal. if Chelsea get him they will be much stronger next season. for me he has everything a player needs and now he is at his peak. it will greatly upset me to see him in a chelsea shirt but i wont blame him for that

  10. King Jeremy

    Jun 12, 2014, 8:42 #52755

    Bard, you seem to have forgotten his pre-match love-in with the Barcelona players back in 2010. I haven't, and nor have many other Gooners. Quite frankly, the way he sulked his way out of the club puts him not too far behind Cashley, Adebaywhore and RVP

  11. jjetplane

    Jun 11, 2014, 17:25 #52721

    Still want the load-own on CF and landlady and Keano and the big mac. The Royal bros. Saw McManus wandering along the Thames in flower power days. After the wrestling and the football scores it was the eerie original Daleks. Just knew you two guys would jump on the chance of wrestling with a good stew. Like to add 2 herbs to current stew which is a tad watered down. One the wild Balo and Milner - the one that survives under all conditions. If Wenger (164 today) does not get said herbs i shall be mostly slagging him orf next season. That will make a change yak yak. Images of tomorrow - water cannon on pitch turned on Croat gangsters who reply with Favela hardware. That be the darkside - I expect a good clean tournament with not too high a body count. I mean how many people attend. Just get me duvet.

  12. Ron

    Jun 11, 2014, 15:19 #52715

    Ha ha . JJ - Pallo s striped trunks eh matey!. He was from Highbury i think! I was always a Bert Royal and Vic Faulkner fan. You recall the fights with Logan and Mc Manus im sure. My Dad loved the wrestling. Im sure he believed it and it never dawned on him it was pure theatrics bless him. Miss him loads.

  13. BADARSE

    Jun 11, 2014, 14:31 #52709

    I was introduced to a sausage curry jjetplane, which I could always do without. I need you to attend our 'Quicky Quizeen' cookery class. I see much ahead that you could bring to the class; McDonald's lasagne, plaice pizza, and Eastbourne whelk stew. It would go down a storm-true it all might come back up again, but we would all like to see you in a pinny. Jackie( MR.TV) Pallo lived near me, and had an obsession with SAAB cars, had around ten or more parked on his land. Good old Kent Walton, inspired television, nearly as good as Muriel Young and Pussycat Willum. 'Get down Shep!'

  14. jjetplane

    Jun 11, 2014, 14:09 #52706

    Never liked CF though thought he was an OK player. Did not like how he did the dirty on his landlady after all those lovely stews like what we had watching Jackie Pallo. Care to enlighten us history dept? Might have been different if he had gone the Keano McDonald for breckie route though judging by respective temperaments I reckon Keano still got in more stews. On the other hand in Barcelona in the Bari Gotic you get a lovely sausage stew with your fuzzy football TV. You can also go to staged conveniences if you so wish. I was once with a Vogue fashion editor en route to a Samba club when we partook of such a trend. Back to Keano - how many McDonalds in the Greater midlands area. The Prawn sarnie narrative is falling into place, or perhaps has replaced the plaice. Bit preoccupied with eternity ....

  15. BADARSE

    Jun 11, 2014, 12:46 #52694

    ppp that makes me smile. Have a good day buddy, but please stop those imaginings, ha ha. @TT generally I think all those who are opposed to Fabregas returning, and for the reasons stated, share a certain sadness. Not one person can deny he is at worst a good footballer, and who wouldn't want a good footballer in the team?

  16. TT

    Jun 11, 2014, 12:20 #52690

    Arsenal have other huge areas needing strengthening. I fully agree a team/squad can never have enough good players, Fabregas would add to that but if Arsenal go out and spend the money quoted on Cesc and then turn around and say we dont sign a world class defensive mid or striker because of it I'll be livid. If this was last season, maybe even next season, Arsenal will have signed him but right now we have other priorities. I love Cesc, would kill to see him return to the club but the deal and the timing has to be right. Having said that, would feel ill seeing him in a Chelsea shirt.

  17. ppp

    Jun 11, 2014, 11:40 #52686

    Ron, BADARSE - for maybe the first time in something like 20 years of reading the Gooner, I actually laughed out loud. Excellent imaginings. Slightly strange but excellent none the less.. I'd like to add that much as I would love to see Cesc and the Arse in bed together again I would rather act like a Mourinho style voyeur as Wenger has a mighty three way with Pogba and Balotelli. Oh that's horrible. I'm really sorry.

  18. BADARSE

    Jun 11, 2014, 9:28 #52682

    Good morning anonymous, (cowardly?), Kim Philby. You draw conclusions like a drunkard with a paintbrush. Do you note those who want to bash me use the terms 'leftie', Britain-hater, etc, whilst I never accuse any of being 'Righties' or otherwise insult? Odd that isn't it? Perhaps a difficult one to answer. My distaste for international football is documented, and I wished the lads on here well and to enjoy it, our lives are short enough and often joyless; is that not allowed under your view of a just society? And I tell my grandchildren most dinosaurs are extinct, clearly not all. By the way I promised to behave myself yesterday, then you snake along.

  19. Kim Philby

    Jun 11, 2014, 9:12 #52681

    BADARSE- Right-on, comrade! Nice to know there are still some of us hand-wringing, Britain-hating, self-loathers around!

  20. WENGER OUT

    Jun 11, 2014, 8:10 #52680

    Chas - I'm a stupid WOB and I still want Fellaini. He would add some muscle to our midfield of diminutive dribblers. That he didn't work out at Man United is hardly a surprise as they clearly needed craft, while we clearly needed muscle - Align to that the fact that ALL players at United last season were terrible, then I think you have to cut Fellaini some slack. I think we will come to regret letting Fab go to Chelsea, just as we have regretted the departure of RVP, the guy is a different class to all but maybe Ramsey, who has after all only had one decent, if injury ravaged, season. But no, you keep blindly supporting everything Wenger does if that's what makes you happy - Incidentally, were you happy after the 6-0 thrashing by Mourinho's Chelsea? A Chelsea without Fabregas and Costa? What excuse will he have next year?

  21. BADARSE

    Jun 11, 2014, 5:47 #52679

    Good morning my little scrambled eggs, tasty and wholesome, but free range or battery? Best news within the last few days is that the Ox has not torn any medial ligament fibres. He will recover within another week or so. Whoops, Iraq anyone? That all went well then didn't it? Stadium in Brazil not ready, is the England team in any better shape? Have a good world cup guys, I shan't be joining you. Quick sell the flags before it's too late!

  22. wenger out

    Jun 11, 2014, 4:25 #52678

    Not signing Cesc would be the biggest insult to the fans Wenger have ever done but the man despises us fans. Why did we have end up with this charlatan?

  23. Graham

    Jun 11, 2014, 3:55 #52677

    Dont be blinded by Cazorla's goal in the cup final.He had an indifferent season.He has been at the club two seasons and has failed to turn up in any of the big games away from home.The same could be said about Ozil last season.Our record in the big games v our rivals is dire because the likes of Cazorla and Ozil cant dominate them games they re lightweight passengers but they look good against the poor teams.Thats why we wont ever finish above 4th again.But this is the price we are paying for giving Wenger a new contract.Last season Real Madrid wanted Bale and who was the player they got rid of to accomodate him? Ozil.And who are the Champions of Europe?Not resigning Cesc is a bigger crime by Wenger than letting RVP go to our rivals

  24. Nutty's Right Peg

    Jun 10, 2014, 23:46 #52676

    Regarding the title of the piece, where's the dilemma ?? The guy's world class, loves the club & is available !! Doubtless Wenger fears that Fab's return would "kill" old Balsa Wood Man Diaby or Wiggy... One FA Cup success doesn't paper over the cracks...however hard the spin merchants might try & tell us.

  25. Ron

    Jun 10, 2014, 22:28 #52674

    I always liked Vela. Like many Mexicans he s supremely talented by my view is spanish football is where hes best of ataying. He seems to have bulked up but i doubt hes any the more durable now. Far too easily knocked off the ball. Knocking a few in and having decent stats in Spain with Real S where nothings really expected of them is one thing, playing at the top end of the PL is another.He d again be a passenger i suspect taking a wage that a better player could be paid and turning out in about 10 games per season. Nice he seems like lad undoubtedly.Do we really need him? No.

  26. HowardL

    Jun 10, 2014, 21:48 #52673

    Dilemma? I'm sorry to be so critical but so many of you on this thread have such short memories...

  27. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 21:46 #52672

    HowardL two heart felt and succinct posts. It would be nice, wouldn't it? Ah, well.

  28. HowardL

    Jun 10, 2014, 21:37 #52671

    Come back Cesc 'absolutely Fabregas' - all is forgiven!

  29. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 21:28 #52670

    Thanks for that 24601. I mentioned on here recently that a good friend expected him to make it and I desperately wanted him to succeed for all our sakes. Three years ago at the Emirates Cup we were pitch side and he was gently warming up. Such a pleasant young lad. I guess a wide role is the most obvious, and if he has played this game with some success it would put him in good stead. We could do worse chum. Personally I would see it as unlikely though.

  30. Westlower

    Jun 10, 2014, 21:18 #52669

    @Badarse, The Vela speculation came from me after reading the following on Wikipedia. In May 2014 there were rumours surrounding Vela's future with Real Sociedad. In an interview with Radio Marca, Vela hinted at a possible return to Arsenal saying " Arsenal can come back for me at £3.3m at any time." Vela scored 15 goals in La Liga last season, mostly playing on the wing. During his spell at Real Sociedad he has scored 29 goals from 70 games. This equates to a return of 41%, which is very creditable. Still only 25 years old.

  31. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 21:11 #52668

    Chris it is a situation which may not even exist. Has his agent approached AFC? Has Arsene said no? I don't know, but does anyone? OK, let's say it's real, as I suggested it has to be thought out. Some suggest that we just sack Santi, which is daft, as well as disloyal. I don't feel the same level of concern that you stressed in that it sends out the wrong message. If he was available and wanted to return and it suited us, then do the deal. This is a funny time of the year, and the internet and these websites allow for and encourage these exchanges. Meanwhile all the players touted, the managers and the agents are tucking into nice meals and drinking bottles of wine, whilst fans fret and worry. It's all a bit silly really. If I was you I would start your own rumour on another site. How about van Persie is interested in returning? Oh that's already been done. See what I mean?

  32. Chris

    Jun 10, 2014, 20:58 #52667

    I'm genuinely ambivalent about the messages we would send if we did re-sign him. Don't get me wrong he was (is?) a fabulous player and had we held on to him and rather than spunking money on Ade-buy-whore kept Flamini, we might have done better than the preennial 4th placed 'trophy But do we want to say to our current and future crop of players "off you go to where you think the graas is greener. We will be here if it doesnt work out" or do we want to say "**** off then, cheerio - but be sure you want to go, the exit door only works one way" ok so we re-signed TH14 (legend) and Flamini(was what we needed especially at the start of the season and didnt want to leave) but these are special cases where we needed something that wasnt in the team already. I want players in our shirt who WANT to play for the club, not as a fall back if their dream doesnt work out. If it were up to him he'd be staying at Barca.

  33. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 20:39 #52666

    Th14afc, I have no idea how the young Vela has developed. I do know he had bags of potential, but turning it into a product needed in the PL was always against the lad. He needed a big partner to play off but it was never going to occur at AFC. Is it for real though? Who has said we are after him? It would be pretty easy to contact him, I am sure Arsene still has him on speed dial. I don't know where these stories come from because I am a self-confessed ostrich when it comes to transfers. I ignore everything as it is usually just hype. If it gathers speed, or more specifically an AFC spokesman says something then my ears prick up. In the meantime I just sit spitting watermelon seeds at the neighbours cat.

  34. Th14afc

    Jun 10, 2014, 20:31 #52665

    Off topic but vela.....yay or nay?

  35. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 10, 2014, 19:00 #52664

    Ron,BADARSE, and then he realised he's had a premature ejaculation.

  36. GoonerGoal!

    Jun 10, 2014, 18:44 #52663

    Oh Joy! It seems we are seeking to beat Everton to a free transfer Chelsea reject veteran striker with no legs, to go with our first choice striker with no pace. Yes, say hello to Samuel Eto'o! It's just laughable... WENGER/GAZIDIS/KROENKE OUT! VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

  37. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 17:33 #52662

    DW Thomas, please don't rope me in with Ron, just because we are having a love-in, (I am just old enough to know of them), don't smudge and blend our views. I like it when we do dovetail, but am very uncomfortable when people start agreeing with me, it usually means I have taken a wrong turning somewhere, (more material for A Cornish Gooner to work with). I just wanted to write a bit of nonsense. I was geared up to write Stanley Unwin's view of thee World Cup but ACG begged me not to, so that poured out. When you go away, even somewhere really nice, after a while you usually get a hankering for home, least I do. If there are rewards and carrots dangled it might make me even more homesick. Footballers are in a perpetual state of movement even when standing still. Always planning their next move before even finishing the one they are currently completing. New areas, colleagues, environment and work practises. Leaving family friends, then kids schools. Being feted by foreign fans, and trying to identify with an alien club. A crazy jumble of an existence. Fabregas left as it was his time, he may return, but probably not. I thought he was one of the best I'd ever seen at such a tender age-if only a little mature, or wiser and he hadn't lost possession in the last minute against the Spuds in that haunting 4-4 draw. A draw that still seems like a defeat.

  38. Chas

    Jun 10, 2014, 17:26 #52661

    Wenger will make the right decision concerning Cesc, he always does. Unlike the stupid wobs who wanted Moyes and Fallaini in last year, now that is the height of stupidity.

  39. DW Thomas

    Jun 10, 2014, 17:18 #52660

    So are uguys sayingplayers are married to AFC. I see things way different. Cesc was a man who longed forhome. His wife asyou say could care less about him inthe long term. More like girlfriend who grew boring and he tired of her persistent whining about failure in their lives. The couple were stagnating. To make matters worse she had an overbearing senile old father stuck inthe past.

  40. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 17:14 #52659

    A Cornish Gooner, I checked out 'The Twelve Angry Gooners', and was most impressed. Astute observations, a teacher of men no less. I knew you were sharp, but as a razor? I also checked out Stanley Unwin and was astonished to learn I'd believed him wrongly to be a Kiwi. He was born in South Africa of English parentage and returned as a little child, perhaps this influenced my view; New Zealand-South Africa, same neck of the woods and both are abroad. I prefer juror 8, I know frustration changes me numerically. Are you a film buff by any chance, as we have a film society beginning in the Autumn? If I tell you this it could aid your assessment perhaps. My favourite Disney character is Donald Duck-he was eighty years old the other day, and my favourite USA female actress is still Lisa Simpson.

  41. Ron

    Jun 10, 2014, 17:08 #52658

    ...... and as she turned away from him, she looked tantalisingly into the middle distance as she tensed and gently panted, her desires sated and thought naughtily, yes, dangerously yet longingly...... Ballo, come and f--k me hard.

  42. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 10, 2014, 16:51 #52657

    Bob, i said exactly the same thing on here when this all surfaced with Fabregas we know exactly what we would be getting a proven PL player, we know what he's all about, what he brings,what he's capable of instead of having to wait two or three years for some cheap unknown nineteen year old to come good. Personally i'd like to see him back but i'm not bothered either way as is my disinterest at the minute and anyway i think it's just another load of spin from TKOS and his department to generate interest or hide whatever needs to be hidden, and it's working wonders.

  43. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 16:51 #52656

    Ooooh, Ron! He held her, pinning her forcefully to the bed. Her blonde hair splayed across the pillow, as the afternoon sunlight picked out golden threads, glinting in his eyes. His muscular shoulders held him poised above her. Breathing huskily he bent his head, her rich succulent lips parted and the tip of her tongue snaked out. It curled upwards, sliding up the side of his cheek, across his forehead, around over his ear, back down wrapping itself once, twice around his throat and slowly, oh so slowly, choked the life out of him. Phew! Good old Arsenal.

  44. Ron

    Jun 10, 2014, 16:37 #52655

    Cesc Fabregas is like a philandering Husband really. All this talk of loving the Club is positively nauseas in my view. The philanderer met his sexy bird, with all the movement her lithe body had, shimmying through his life, tousled hair beguiling and bewitching him and he thought he'd like some of that. In the meantime not much thought for his attractive slightly older Wife, stylish and even classier than the new broad who had turned his head. Alas, the sexy thing tired of him, she had her needs pandered for a while, she teased him and tormented him even and she was certainly his trophy bird, on his arm, as he looked around to see other men looking in envy. He loved that but realised his use had past, her needs werent being satisfied, he had to admmit his erec--e dysfunction. The sexy bird was looking at other men, more virile than he and by golly, she was going to have them. Amazing then that now, he 'loves' his Wife again but shes moved on, shes met others who offered the same but who were truer to her. Shes now haughtily shunned his reconciliatory noises, she s now thinking of other men, also more virile than he. Shes playing with herself and smiling with her red lips, gently apart and thing Cesc who, however did i marry that guy. These toys ive got are far better ...... but i want better than him now. Ive grown and im not going back. In other words. Live with it Fabregas. Your Wife was always too good for you.

  45. Edmund

    Jun 10, 2014, 16:15 #52654

    Bard was quite right to call Cesc the prodigal son. He has asked to come home to dad. Turning down a chance to play for Barca is an oportunity few players can spurn. But should he be cast away now? Flamini came back to win something and we won the FA Cup. If AW reassembles the squad that nearly won the league, we may finally bring home a title. Squad depth has been a perenial problem and versatile player like Cesc is part if the solution. Selling Carzola,Rosicky or Diaby is putting us back to square one. It would make more sense that paying a lot more for a ticking timebomb like Mario. He may be brilliant but I can't see him getting on with the rest of the team. If wages becomes an issue the club can loan out Diaby and let him fully recover fitness elsewhere. I also don't trust AW buying from Real Madrid given their 'special relationship' with Spurs. They must have known Ozil would struggle with the physical nature of the PL.

  46. DW Thomas

    Jun 10, 2014, 15:50 #52653

    What we need most is change. Won't happen under Wenger. I look forward only to the occasional good match up in the league or CL. But after last season even those games seem mostly lost now. We cannot forget our history chums...or it tends to repeat. This clubs actions is like one of those time travel movies where the hero finally figures out how to win/beat the bad guys. This club doesn't. It's just in perpetual repeat mode and keeps trying the same things again and again. They deem they win each year...that 4th place crown!

  47. Rocky RIP

    Jun 10, 2014, 15:23 #52652

    Bard makes some points we all agree with I'm sure and have wrestled with but the line 'Whoever they are they will neither love the club like Cesc does' - this is the stumbling point for me. He effectively went on strike to force a move. I've a feeling a lot of noses were put out of joint by the manner of his departure and Wenger intimated he could one day expand on what went on behind the scenes. So it's a case of bridges being burned.

  48. A Cornish Gooner

    Jun 10, 2014, 14:45 #52651

    BADARSE Thanks for the response and thanks for heeding my ‘advice’. As many people have said on this site you have a lot to offer. I admire you for your determination in playing the ‘Juror 8’ character in Twelve Angry Gooners (seemingly a character you have played all your life) but I sometimes detect an intransigent even aggressive attitude more in keeping with the ‘Juror 3’ or ‘Juror 10’ roles. But certainly not today! Glad to read of the rekindling of your romance with Richard ButRON, although I fear we’re only one large glass of Claret away from another bust-up. Hopefully with all these kisses you will turn into a Prince one day. Oh and PLEASE no more Professor Stanley Unwin (British not Kiwi by the way)

  49. ppp

    Jun 10, 2014, 14:40 #52650

    As an Arsenal fan you can't really not want Cesc back. It's a tough one but I don't think these Chelsea stories are as cut and dried as the press want us to believe. There's a lot more to come on this story. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's just the same as last year. Remember how certain the press were that Cesc was going to the Mancs? Didn't happen. I think Cesc's agent is just doing his level best to get his client a better contract at Barca.

  50. Croker

    Jun 10, 2014, 14:30 #52649

    We'd only be buying Cesc to stop Chelski and Maureen's ambitions and it would be bad business looking at the fee and wages he'd command. Very much as it pains me to see Cesc play for anyone else in the Prem League, we need to strengthen elsewhere in the side and let the Ox and Ramsey flourish.

  51. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 14:18 #52648

    Ron history is always written by the victors. In a church in Vienna, (I was only in there checking out the collection plate), I read great epitaphs to the courageous soldiers who invaded Russia. I have a great affinity with the plight of the Russian peoples-they lost more people in the second world war than all other nations combined-and didn't quite see that those invading, butchering and laying to waste were actually anything like heroes. I disagreed with my Austrian connections over this little observation, as much to do with their catholic leanings as anything else. If only I had had A Cornish Gooner around to advise and guide.

  52. CT Gooner

    Jun 10, 2014, 14:02 #52647

    I'm with you Redford, but that's the crux, he won't buy what we need, never has!! So for me, do you want Cesc, or a couple of second rate French players. Remember, half the players we're supposedly interested in are just agents trying to get more money.

  53. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 13:33 #52646

    Ah, maguiresbridge, here I go again being awkward and oppositional-I am a vegetarian and always find BBQ lettuce a real let down! A juicy Quorn burger will do though, I know you have those in Ulster, though non-existent in France! Have spoken with Professor Stanley Unwin and he says he will give you a World Cup offering later...something to look forward to, eh? ha ha. Hi and good evening Ozzie. How did you know Ron lives in the flat below? His ceiling bashing with the broomstick can only be countered by my clog dancing with the carpets rolled back. He usually wins though because he then picks up his guitar and my jew's harp playing doesn't have the same effect on him. A Great neighbour though.

  54. Ron

    Jun 10, 2014, 13:27 #52645

    BADARSE - Can relate well to that story indeed. By the way pal, carry on being left leaning. Ive long thought the extremes from either end of the spectrum each have much to offer the debate, but as ultimate arbiters, theyre both as dead as Do Do's. You could call me a traverser of that wide area that separates them if you like, so you see, im perfectly ok in that grey area that you speak of. Does that assist? I hope so. PS The Fr kids used to get very smarmy and quite volatile towards her when they used to tell my Daughter that their history teacher had told them that had Napoleon triumphed at Waterloo, amongst other equally ludicrous notions about why the Wars ended as they did. Mr Wenger anybody? Enjoy your afternoon fella.

  55. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 10, 2014, 13:22 #52644

    BADARSE, not a problem mate, i'll keep the juiciest burger for you.

  56. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 13:14 #52643

    Good lad Ron, no matter what the world may say about you, you certainly bare no grudges, well played fella. Here is a story for you which perhaps touches on the subject and possibly touches on me too. My wife and I went to stay with a family we got to know through work, so a bit of a business stay rather than good friends. That morning we sat in the beautiful warm morning sunshine to have brekkie al fresco. It was nice. A couple came to eat too, (quite a nice idea isn't it, to visit friends for breakfast?), and we were having a good time. Then we began talking about cheese and I happened to say that we in England have the biggest variety of our own and world cheeses, unlike the French supermarkets which generally have French cheeses and merely pay lip service to the rest of the planet. He announced that it was because French cheese is the best in the world. I begged to differ, telling him French cheeses were superb but it might be argued that they are quite similar and the rest of the world, particularly England make fabulous cheeses. He then did a silly thing by leaning forward across the table repeating the earlier claim. I gave him my Clint Eastwood look, spitting out my tobacco juice, and told him he was mistaken. He was furious. I casually said to my wife I thought that it was time to leave and find a hotel. Fortunately his wife and our hosts defused the situation. I have no idea what they said, too fast for my linguistic ability. Oddly enough the next day we visited them and he was very pleasant. I did think of taking some English cheese as a house-visiting gift but couldn't find any in the local shop! A Cornish Gooner, thank you once more, I never like falling out with my Dad!

  57. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 10, 2014, 13:11 #52642

    DW Thomas, yes you certainly could and word for word they would be as relevant today as they were then, and posters on here accuse others of saying the same thing over and over and going over old ground, well if we didn't have to and given reasons to we wouldn't. Yes i'm kinda looking forward to the world cup myself interest is building at maybe it's because we'll not have to listen to wenger.

  58. DJ

    Jun 10, 2014, 13:05 #52641

    Westlower: Yes but on the flipside imagine if we'd bought Suarez instead of those two duds. We would have won the league, sold him to Real Madrid and doubled our money!

  59. Ron

    Jun 10, 2014, 12:57 #52640

    Hi BADARSE - Wasnt being feisty. Sorry if you thought i was. I think a lot gets lost in translation to be honest. Big hugs!.On 'grey areas' the Fr need to find some of that no mans land as i recall it. It'll start to alter things there maybe, but probably not. The Tax man there loves em for being what they are though. I know it states the obvious as he is French of course (tinged with his Alsation 'germanicness'of course) but ive always seen much of what i believe to underlying Fr negativity and aloofness in Arsene Wenger and i firmly think its held him back so much as a Coach. Its maybe why there are relatively so few great Fr Coaches in footie history? Its a big topic isnt it, but when you take a look at Fr authority be it sporting, military or however its displayed, the FR temperament always crushes the benefits of what they can offer practically and intellectually.I never got used to it when i was there. Its like an inbuilt mistrust of anything and anybody that they have and it leads to inward, defensive self awareness to anything that challenges their ways. I see a lot of that in Wenger and Fr players. I think the overarching Frenchness that Arsenal have adopted, while its had its high water marks of course, has been very corrosive to us a football Club over the course of time. Its one of the main reasons i want him to leave or be asked to leave.

  60. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 12:48 #52639

    Absolutely correct A Cornish Gooner, can you imagine how many enemies I would make if I didn't work so hard at it? I shall try to behave myself, thank you for the advice. Come home Ron, friends again...please? Don't let passion get in the way of what you want to say James. I quite liked that rant.

  61. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 10, 2014, 12:42 #52638

    LJB, good shout, but maybe the whole subject we're discussing will become irrelevant if France implode During the world cup and maybe have a mass brawl among themselves, or get humiliated in front of the world, something OGL who will be there earning a crust with French TV will be familiar with as he's sat through a few himself with us. Then maybe the French big wigs who will no doubt not be far away will decide to break the bank and beg him to come home and sort the whole mess out, and his ego gets the better of him and he accepts, and he only comes back to the UK to pack, problem solved.

  62. A Cornish Gooner

    Jun 10, 2014, 12:03 #52637

    BADARSE 'I never see black or white chum, just different shades of grey. It's because I work at that aspect very hard, and have a certain level of achievement' Such as 'making more enemies than most'

  63. James

    Jun 10, 2014, 12:00 #52636

    I love Cesc as much as the next Gooner, but I aint having it that people seem to think its acceptable to say to bring him back because he loves the club and get rid of cazorla because cesc is better and loves the club more. What world do you live in? Where were you when Cazorla smashed i nthe free kick in FA cup final? i was in the stadium and i dont recall hearing too many people saying lets kick cazorla out and bring cesc in when the goal went in! Cesc is a legend and very much loved, but lets not forget that he did leave the club! argue it however you like about boyhood dreams etc, but we gave him a platform to grow when his boyhood club didnt want to keep him. We made him the player he was and then he left us. its as simple as that. we demand loyalty from our players, yet some people are being shamelessly unloyal to a player like cazorla when they say get rid of him for cesc!!! what is loyalty? leaving to barca? or being at arsenal and helping us win our first trophy in 9 years??? thought so. debate over

  64. Chum

    Jun 10, 2014, 11:10 #52635

    Grey is the new red.

  65. Ozzie

    Jun 10, 2014, 11:09 #52634

    wenger out, I too would have welcomed a change of manager but it hasn't happened so why not spit it out, or are you going to torment yourself for another 3 years? Badarse, Ron, whatever became of 'Loooove thy Neighbour?'

  66. Bob

    Jun 10, 2014, 11:08 #52633

    The fact that we sorely need quality in numbers elsewhere in the squad does not in any way detract from the difference that Cesc Fabregas can make to the team. Let us separate the issues, please. Ozil was clearly not the priority a year ago, but enough people here were happy for us to spend £42 million on him simply because he is a class player and would strengthen us. Why on earth are people less enthusiastic about us signing someone who is proven in the English premiership, much more likely to hit the ground running, knows and loves our club, and would be available for a lot less than Ozil.

  67. radfordkennedy

    Jun 10, 2014, 10:09 #52632

    Morning all..the debate on CF has made interesting reading and I can genuinely understand both sides of the debate.does anybody else think that AW has backed himself into a corner here,because I'm one of those who believes that not bringing CF back is fine as long as we bring in the much needed additions to other areas of the team,however if these deficiencies are not addressed with real quality and we end up with no Cesc and no top notch signings would this not constitute the ultimate dereliction of duty on AW's part,if we end up with a couple of players from nantes or lorient or somewhere, surely to God his position would become untenable...just a thought

  68. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 9:34 #52631

    Ron did you find it so difficult to be friendly? The use of friend in your post signifies anything but. It is another example of your view being challenged by a slight difference, certainly not seismic, but different. I alluded to a general state of mind, didn't advocate it as correct-it's that right or wrong mentality again which you seem to struggle with. Have stayed in France-you presume too much. Have had countless rows and disagreements regarding the circumstances you touched on. I never see black or white chum, just different shades of grey. It's because I work at that aspect very hard, and have a certain level of achievement. Not to worry though, we can kiss and make up later. Whoops, the French kiss, perhaps we had better stick to a metaphorical hand shake pal.

  69. Chas

    Jun 10, 2014, 9:29 #52630

    Cesc was the only Arsenal player I was sad to see go the rest were either injury prone, getting on or no longer at their peak. Wenger even said himself that Fabregas was the only player he didn't want to leave. Surely it's best to ship out Diaby and Flamini and get Cesc back.

  70. Ron

    Jun 10, 2014, 8:31 #52629

    Boozy - A good post. Many will find the reality of it distasteful though as the Cesc love in rumbles on amongst us. A poster mentioned Fabregas s lack of pace and propensity to let his head drop in games that got tough. Very, very true from where i was standing in so many away games, yet it never used to get mentioned as ppl slaked off other players for insipid performances instead. CF was never the World class player Arsenal fans crack him up to be and his failure to hit the high spots at Barca have proved it so. PS BADARSE - The 'trade unionism' in Fr that you speak off is a broad brush stroke indeed. It is 'successful' though as you say. It succeeds in keeping the Fr economy in the 1940s/50s and stunts businesses terribly. Its existence is at the very root of the interminable rows between govts over national protectionism that won't ever be solved until Fr changes. The trade unionism isn't through all levels of Fr economy either. The internal bitching in higher management has nothing to do with it. Its born of bureaucratic mini empire building within businesses which coupled with your 'trade unionism' makes for a hotchpot of a mess and dysfunctional businesses.The Fr are too frightened to change anything. 'Serving them well'? You must be joking. You have to experience it to believe it but i do know the romanticised 'lefties' here look over the channel and see them when the fuse blows occasionally as they conjure up images of the 1970s 'good old days' here when the Unions took over the car parks of our staple industries with their 'show us a few hands up and we re out mentality' which also succeeded didn't it. It gave you Mrs Thatcher. Some success that was! Go work in Fr my friend. Its never been what you lefties would like to think its been.

  71. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 8:09 #52628

    Thanks for the article Bard, well done. A 'typo' maguiresbridge, should read 'short black wellies', but take it from me short black willies is also a 'no no', ha ha. Oh you Gok Wan, you! And I recommend you give up on the blackberry jam on the hot dogs, even if you did pick them yourself!

  72. Bard

    Jun 10, 2014, 7:35 #52627

    Some interesting posts. I get the argument about being top heavy in the midfield however we could do what other managers do and sell a few to make the space. Also Jack and Rambo have poor fitness records so in not totally convinced about the numbers argument. The other argument that we more pressing issues to address is a groundhog problem. We have had pressing issues to solve for as long as I can remember. How many years did we wait for a keeper and a centre back. He doesn't do Dms at least since paddy left. As for a striker well we needed one last year so he bought Ozil. So for me that argument doesnt stack up. I realise my post is an emotional one, but seeing Cesc striding out in Chelsea blue will seriously piss me off. It will be worse than seeing RVP in red. I still believe it will turn put to be an own goal of epic proportions especially if Chelsea win the league.

  73. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2014, 7:08 #52626

    Good morning mes petits saucissons, quite tasty, but garlicky, dry and hard. The paradox of posting is it gives so many facets of a problem/situation, but also often you find you chase your tail. If a manager has to make a decision over a player and does, that is it. We assume AW has made that over Fabregas. We can but offer our analysis given the circumstances. He is then congratulated because it seems sensible to some, or vilified because others disagree. We do the merry-go-round bit with ease though-that is amusing. The same applies to Fabregas, our hero coming home-or a traitor who left. I do think people need to simplify. We live in an inflammatory age, 'with us or against us'. It is all a part of the dumbing down spawned by the USA culture, and many there need it, believe me! Sadly it is becoming a similar society here, so I suppose we need it too, but it can be irksome. Fabregas was not a hero or a villain. He was a man first, a footballer second, and did quite a good job of both. He left when he deemed it time to go, that is his inalienable right, even if it wounded many of us at the time. He is open to return and there is nothing wrong in that either. He probably isn't coming back. Over with. By the way, the French are very parochial and still adhere to regional views and time-entrusted approaches. They are still trade unionist-minded and are ready to rail and argue at the drop of a hat, it serves them well. It seems amusing to those on the side lines but it is a passion and unification we have had beaten out of us. It is a common reaction to try to reduce something we either cannot, or will not understand. That preserves our sanity in maintaining a self belief that we are right and everyone else is wrong. maguiresbridge chill a little chum, but keep up with the gardening as we shall again be holding the virtual Online Gooner BBQ at your drum again this summer. Am billing this one as 'The Pansy, Poppy Peony Party.' And before you ask, no 'Y-Fronts' will not do if your shorts are in the wash, and worn with short black willies is a fashion 'no-no', trust me.

  74. Westlower

    Jun 10, 2014, 7:06 #52625

    Cast your minds back 12months with AFC desperate for a DM & CF. Wenger buys Fellaini & Soldado on 3 year deals. Total cost including wages, nudging £100m. At end of season Wenger gets fired for wasting the clubs transfer fund. New scenario: Next manager comes in but lo and behold no money left in the kitty & badly needing a DM & CF.

  75. Black Hei

    Jun 10, 2014, 6:55 #52624

    Man, the entire forum has been taken over by the WO. C'mon Wenger, sign Alexis Sanchez, Javier Martinez and a RB to win back the folks!

  76. Edmund

    Jun 10, 2014, 6:16 #52623

    The system will not change which is why Flamini just slotted back in. Cesc would do the same. The system will change only when Wenger goes. On the other hand,Mourinho is much more adapable than Wenger. His team can play good football and trash lower teams but revert to parking the bus against better opponents. If Cesc goes there he will provide options. Don't forget he was an effective false9 for Spain.

  77. Westlower

    Jun 10, 2014, 6:05 #52622

    @Steve Williams, Your comment that the board only worry about the bottom line. Well, let's all be grateful for that as it's their prime function to manage our resources. There are no prizes given out for gambling it all away. Going into liquidation comes with the punishment of 10 points deducted. @Gooner Goal, The Spanish manager must hold Cazorla in some regard as he has accumulated 61 Spanish caps.

  78. DW Thomas

    Jun 10, 2014, 4:58 #52621

    Agree with the taming of the Balotelli thing. Keeping Bendtner last year turned out to be a disaster. What a joke that was! Unless someone with a the pedigree of a Cavani, Aguero, or Suarez comes in, we will stay in this perpetual farce that is 4th place each year. Wenger leads one of the best clubs in the world with great finances, a huge fan base, and the potential to be even more. What does he do each year in transfers? Ozil was an anomaly. I don't see us doing that again, so no top class striker there. Only more meh signings and stop gaps to replace great players who wanted out. Our salary philosophy is a joke too. In what business do the best, most experienced employees who bring the most to the company not get paid the best? Oh yeah, this club. Walcott gets $100k a week and we can't give Sagna something better to stay? Who was better for the team over the past 6-7 seasons? Arguable, I know, but at least Sagna was loyal. This clubs smells from its rotten disregard for the fans and its number one focus above all else...profits. Personally, I can't see Cesc going to Chelsea, believe when I see it. Maybe Man United he might prefer to team up with Mata and RVP. He would be great for them. If they were to add him, Hummels, Vidal, and a couple other quality players, they will blow us away again next season. Wenger to me seems to take the bright prospects like Jack and even Ramsey to some extent and turn them into cry babies always whining about the refs and tough tackles. Just that Ramsey still has that engine and grit to get through it. Sure Milner has a great work rate, but again, he is what we want to insure change and a more positive shot at the PL title? Give me a break. Thank goodness the WC is starting soon so I can take a rest from all this pointless blogging. We all know, deep down in our heart of hearts, Wenger will never change. It will be same old same old. How do we know this? Just go back 5-6 years and read our old posts. We have been arguing, discussing the same s..t for years now. And guess what, it's always the same result.

  79. Vitaly

    Jun 10, 2014, 3:34 #52620

    No this is one of the stupidest descion he has made. No doubt to play his useless Diaby, Arteta, Rosicky instead of having El Captain back. Honestly Wengeq actually turned our legend and loved hero Cesc. He he has no clue what he is doing. Watch this idiot sell Ozil and Ramsey next year. We have to suffer this clueless manager for 3 more years and more. This guy has nothing but contempt for the fans not signing our much loved captain who wants to come back and the whole fans want him back.

  80. Boozy

    Jun 10, 2014, 2:31 #52619

    Seriously? 'it would have sent out a message that we keep our own'. Come on, we've sold umpteen of our so called heroes and they haven't looked back!. Our 'hero' Cesc couldn't wait to abandon ship and leave for the glory filled Camp Nou. The going got tough at the Emirates and he was gone quick sharp. A lot of fans gave him the benefit of the doubt as he was joining his boyhoood club. He used Arsenal as a stepping stone, he was never making the Barca 1st team as a youngster and decided Arsenal could give him the much wanted platform for greatness. People seem to forget that Cesc refused to play in a number of games after throwing the toys right out of the pram. He feigned injury apparently, took a paycut, accepted that he might not get 1st team action, left 'our' club in it's most difficult time. If Cesc truely loved Arsenal he would never have left! **** has hit the fan for him at Barca, now he's willing to come back with his tail between his legs and we're supposed to accept it? If Barca held him in high regard he wouldn't want a move back 'home'... I'm no professional footballer, but, if I was Ramsey, Cazorla, Wilshere, Ozil, Chamberlain, Rosicky to name a few, I would be livid at the thought of Wenger bringing in a player who plays in my position, a player who couldn't really have cared less about leaving a club who's fan's adored him, the manager adored him (he spoke of building the next Arsenal teams around him), a club he was captain of! all for going home to most likely sit on the bench and be an under-study to the great Xavi. It's shown that Barca don't rate him, why is he all of a sudden an Arsenal enigma? He was a fantastic player for us, I really wish he didn't leave, I honestly think he could have went down in Arsenal folklore. BUT, he did leave, for his one true love, his boyhood idols. Arsenal are maybe a great source of pride for Cesc but they are certainly not his club of 'belonging'.. The supposed 30 million transfer fee for him could be better spent on a proper old school goalscorer. We need a right back, a goalkeeper, a defensive midfielder (with pace), and a left winger. If we can get those players in and still have the money for Cesc, I'll welcome him with open arms!!

  81. Edmund

    Jun 10, 2014, 1:50 #52618

    I consider Cesc Fabregas as 'one of our own' as I'm sure the 70% who want him back. We can forget about getting a big name striker as we will get outbid so why not get a player who can play almost anywhere on the field. If you add the cost of 2 to 3 players as backup for the first 11, plus the fact that rotation is pretty poor, having CF filling in the various spots would be ideal. He is also low risk as we know his quality in the PL. I agree with LJB's assesment on Super Mario. I don't see AW being able to control him. I would love to have James Milner on the team. I think his work rate is fantastic.

  82. CT Gooner

    Jun 10, 2014, 1:03 #52617

    Cesc is a must! Don't we even get a significant portion of the cost back anyway?? I see Ozil as a luxury player, a man who doesn't seem tough enough for the British game. Our squad needs strengthened, if we can bring back a known entity on the cheap, sign him up. All those hoping for our weaknesses to be filled, rb, dmf, st, dream on. Haven't you seen, we have Jenks, Diaby back and Sanogo. No, I'm really worried we're being played for fools again, and some rich buggers in our new stadium are having a good chuckle....

  83. LJB

    Jun 10, 2014, 0:45 #52616

    Wheres Wally,good point.Ozil had better pull his socks up fast as every performance will be scrutinised and comparisons made between himself and Cesc. Given that Cesc will be playing with superior players under a manager who knows how to win, I'm afraid that the papers will be full of "42.5 mill flop " stories. There is something about Ozil that suggests that,unlike Ramsey,he lacks the personality, determination and mental strength(!!!) to rise above such criticism and use it as galvanising force to shove their harsh words down his detractors throats. He will retreat further and further into his shell and will seek a transfer back to Germany next summer. Wenger will flog him for 20 mill,the owner and Board will not question him about the wasted 22 mill and Cesc will have helped Chelsea win the PL. This may seem like a improbable scenario but it is more likely to become reality than Wenger signing Cavani,Benzema,Falcao,Javi Martinez,Draxler or other such fanciful notions. You see we are skint again,Ivan told the supporters meeting last week that we have a "tight" budget.Seems the promised land of 2014 with its biggest ever TV deal ,Sponsorship deal and Kit deal not to mention the 100 odd mill already in the bank,oh and FFP as well,was but a mirage.The clubs narrative of Wenger succeeding against all the odds has become so entrenched in the clubs (and some supporters) DNA that it will take a fresh face in the dug out in order for the club to move forward.And that my friends is light years away unfortunately. One more thing.Ballotelli.What is this clamour amongst Arsenal fans for the mad one who has been poor for the past 3 seasons ? There seems to be this idea that Wenger can "tame" him and nurture his talent.HAH! Wenger couldn't control Bendtner or Frimpong,how the F**k is he going to sort Super Mario out? A disaster waiting to happen.

  84. Th14afc

    Jun 09, 2014, 23:58 #52615

    Cesc is a luxury player we can do without...if most of our budget is spent on yet another creative midfielder then we won't b able to afford the top quality striker that we need....we'll b stuck with cesc settin up giroud and sanogood to only mess the chance up and another 4th place finish....screw cesc anyway,he left once and I don't believe all this spiel about him only leavin to join his boyhood club so there is only barca and arsenal he'd ever at for as you'll see in afew weeks when he'll join mourinho's mob

  85. GoonerGoal!

    Jun 09, 2014, 23:56 #52614

    Give me a break! Cazorla over Cesc? Leaving Ramsey, Ozil, and even the interminably injured Wilshire and the recovering Walcott out of the argument, Wenger must obviously consider not only Cazorla, but also Arteta, superior to Cesc. A view that the Spanish manager doesn't seem to share, but then what does the manager of the current European and World Champions know compared to a man who has just won his first trophy in 9 years? Chelsea are preparing to compete to win the Premier League next season, while Arsenal are getting ready to compete for fourth place for the tenth year in a row. WENGER/GAZIDIS/KROENKE OUT! VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

  86. johnnyhawleylovinggooner

    Jun 09, 2014, 23:29 #52613

    I think the manor of cesc leaving is a major factor for AW.we built a team round him and made him look good,then at the first chance he went back to barca.cesc made the same mistake super nic anelka made.both should of stayed at arsenal with a team built round them horned their skills and at 27 then left for barca/Madrid and they would of had made a major success of it.cesc choose to go and now ozil who choose to come is sitting in his place fair enough I think.cesc is a bit slow and his head goes down a bit for me.when I first saw oil I hope we would be able to sign him,so let's go and get the top players to make him shine,cesc and RVP had their chance and I do not blame the manager for his choice.still have not forgive him for that back heel against barca or looking so comfy in the stands with his mates instead of sitting at the bench maybe no room for him there but it hurt at the time(petty I know)

  87. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 09, 2014, 23:21 #52612

    jw, Ron, yes but others on don't seem to agree and result to threats, what happened to expressing opinions and i didn't even use the word Pansies.

  88. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 09, 2014, 23:10 #52611

    BADARSE, your threats don't worry me mate i've had them from professionals, but you can try and give me all the advice you like in your usual silly way no doubt i'll just do what a few others on here do and with great ease i might add, and slap it down or do what a lot of others do and laugh at it or ignore it.

  89. HowardL

    Jun 09, 2014, 23:06 #52610

    "I want Cesc Fabregas!"

  90. Steve Williams

    Jun 09, 2014, 22:43 #52609

    Don't imagine wenger or the board give a flying fcuk what the fans think. The board only think about the bottom line and wenger just wants to prove a point to the world....and spend as little as possible. That is why Cesc will go to a team of serial winners, while Arsenal will remain the laughing stock of world football, the sort of outfit that will coach the ability out of the worlds best number ten, will reject a bargain priced midfielder and will bring Kallstrom back, not Cesc, so they don't kill a player that has been injured for several seasons. You just could not make it up. Arsenal, the board, the manager and the fans who accept the status quo are the biggest joke in world football

  91. DJ

    Jun 09, 2014, 22:17 #52608

    BADARSE. Agree on the speedy winger,I was hoping for Sanchez from Barcelona but it looks like surprise, suprise we may get Vela back on the cheap!

  92. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 21:43 #52607

    Ha. MG - The French excel at bitching at each other.Its a national trait that they seem to be proud of? I worked there 20 odd years ago for about 18 months. The men behave like cats. The women are made of sterner stuff. The whole place runs on male cat fights, every day, 24/7. Lovely country, wasted on those pilgrims!

  93. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 21:29 #52606

    Hes been a good pro hasnt he, Sagna, He was the best RB around for a couple of seasons. Hes got a good move there. Wont play all the games. Big pay day too. Its a good move for him. Another one not to be begrudged his move. None of them are to be begrudged for me. Save for Nasri (maybe) they all left for professional reasons. Even Cole, i know ppl choose to detest him, but he deserved pay parity. Top player (id still have him back now at LB)He wanted some glory too. Hes just got a face that ppl wd never tire of slapping, thats his main crime, plus having poor advisers about his PR!!Its a short career after all.

  94. jeff wright

    Jun 09, 2014, 21:27 #52605

    MG, a good summation of all things Arsene doing his part time job . His comments about not doing any business for us until after the WC jolly just about says it all really. He still acts as though he is doing us a favour by staying at AFC ! In reality at any other club he would have been shown the door years ago.

  95. BADARSE

    Jun 09, 2014, 21:22 #52604

    maguiresbridge, you are asking for a piece of timely advice from Professor Stanley Unwin, so be careful!

  96. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 09, 2014, 21:13 #52603

    JW, yes mate if his own country men weren't there he'd hardly be about the place you'd think he'd have better things or more important things to do at Arsenal at the minute but as is always the case with OGL i'm sure that can wait as it's a long time to deadline day yet. His own country men will have to suffer him for a while now and in their own language too i pity them, with his great mental strength, great spirit, i believe, etc,etc, statements, at least it's giving us a welcome break for a while. Then when their put out because of their inferiority and in fighting among themselves it will be everybody else's fault, and just as their about to leave the hotel for the flight back to France OGL will approach one of the squad who never got a game and plays for a second division side somewhere, and tells him you can be the new Anelka then signs him for £60,000 a week and announces he's been after him for years and he's top top quality.

  97. jeff wright

    Jun 09, 2014, 20:47 #52602

    The hoodoo of no Euro side winning in South America is down to things other than bad luck Ron, and as you suggest Brazil might get a helping hand and it will other than 'god's 'one that helped the Argies to win the cup all those years ago.

  98. BADARSE

    Jun 09, 2014, 20:40 #52601

    DJ I am with you when it comes to scepticism of AFC spending. Our discussion as Fabregas inspired but on a wider outlook we have to get a worthy RB and clearly a decent back up keeper, and believe we will. The cover that Sagna gave at CH will be absent so do we hope Verminator stays fit as the cover? Seems there are none coming through the ranks so we have to buy, or will we run with what we have? I am inclined to think we will gamble on having just three. I don't have a good feeling about a Striker, or a holding midfield player. As floated before we may get both but perhaps only one-which one? All a little vague at the moment so am just waiting in the wings, which is my main cry, for a speedy natural wide man who can hit a cross, we will miss Sagna there too.

  99. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 20:30 #52600

    Hi Jeff - Yes, Argentina for me too though due mainly to their fire power but i suspect far darker forces will carry Brazil through to the summit. That aside ive a sneaky feeling that a euro team might just break the duck in SA. I'm thinking a close call between Germany and Spain. Spain to have a last great hurrah? Germany have all of the tools in their kit though don't they.

  100. TK

    Jun 09, 2014, 20:30 #52599

    Yes we already have Ozil whats the point of wasting money on Fabregas when we need to spend elsewhere. For once Wenger has made the right decision. As for Milner I wouldn't want him to start for England never mind Arsenal. We need to stay clear of average players like him. Balotelli is simply not worth the troube of investing big money on him.

  101. jeff wright

    Jun 09, 2014, 20:15 #52598

    Ron, I go along with the view that a player other than Fabregas is what we require. Although I know that with Wenger's dated tactic /coaching that it will not make any difference. Fabregas won nothing with us other than a FAC medal and he played in better sides than the current one. The Prem and Europe are stronger now,so just how expending a fortune on senor Fabregas will help only the good lord knows. Messi has carried that Barca team on his back for years and when he goes missing so do they a rather overrated side really compared with some of the true great ones of the past. I'm thinking that Messi might fill that vacant spot on his CV where a World Cup medal should be - he will never have a better shout of doing so.

  102. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 20:15 #52597

    DW - We re not so far apart mate. The Club should spend big to get a top class striker, DF holder too. Get them and the rest of the teams fallibilities with no other additions at all would reduce by a large percentage. Wengers type of footie has as an essential the need for a deadly striker (or two even) to capitalise on what his teams do. Its an ability to score more than the other team that negates defensive error and weakness. Look at Liverpool last season. Far away from being a great side but other teams were scared witless of S and S. Im a fan of Milner though. I love his approach to footie. All teams need his like plus a dash of the loon which i feel Balo brings, all of which we aired yesterday of course.Nobody wants the passing to be gone mate but our teams are so loose, its unreal. For years too, theyve been mentally short as i see it. 2008 was an example of a team losing the plot, plus Adebayor ran out of steam didn't he. 2006 in Paris Hmm, look for reasons to blame but the truth is that Henry bottled his moments when they came and Wengers reserve Keeper was chronic (no change there you might say)

  103. DW Thomas

    Jun 09, 2014, 20:00 #52596

    No, I get the point. But remember, recently some on here were saying that the Invincibles weren't that great and always flopped in Europe! To be fair, Wenger should have and almost won the league in 08 and the CL in 06, but why did he lose both? Squad depth for both I think. And Barca s really, really good at the time. Again, if Milner is our ambition, or Balotelli, then I will just watch the team on game days and hope for real change in years to come, once Wenger is gone. Agree completely that we should be more direct and have stronger characters in the team. But not to sacrifice skill or passing well. Bayern a couple years ago when they only lost 1 game in the league and beat Dortmund in the CL final were that type of team. They had strength and skill. The best teams always do! You got to be joking when you say Milner and Balotelli would be system changers. To what? Now, bring in a Suarez type, or even Remy, and a tried and true top DM that is a vocal leader and I agree, we are doing things differently than the past 9 years. Our midfield, no matter how we play, desperately needs more than just Giroud to feed to. To seriously change our system we need a manger who wants to, not just a few new players. Remember too what article you're writing under, what started these posts. Cesc, agree or not, is to many of us a player with that cerebral quality that someone like Rooney or Drogba lacks. An ability to read the game and well. That's all I am really saying. Most physical tough guys lack that. Shame to pass on one like that. If I am truly honest, I would probably prefer a top top striker and DM to Cesc coming back. But like most on here, I have 0% hope that Wenger will get what we need. When has he? EVER?

  104. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Jun 09, 2014, 20:00 #52595

    If he lets Cesc join Chelsea, Wenger will put huge pressure on himself. Can you imagine the press and fans reaction every time Cesc bosses a game and Ozil plays poorly. All speculation of course but for 30 mill Cesc is the bargain of the summer. Can Arsenal really afford to turn it down?

  105. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 19:40 #52594

    DW - i think you're missing the point a little bit to be fair. the suggestions of Milner and Balotelli are being suggested on the basis of the type of players they are and not as alternatives to a role that Fabregas would fulfil in a system that we've already got. They're being suggested as system changers, as a change from just more 'like for like' which is really what Fabregas would be. CF really in my view is a product of an obsolete type of footie that realised not too much for Arsenal, save for the CL qualifications of course. This debate has as its fulcrum, the views for and against changing the manner in which the Club plays its football as much as it ever does about who we get to play it for us. CF is the past. Maradona, Cruyff and Zidane were powerful men mate and didn't shy from anybody either. Blessed also with talents beyond the norm, so your comparisons there are a little skewed really to give oxygen to your point. Scholes too, was a tough cookie, though not great of height. The other two have been products of their time in a league that lent itself to their type. Great players indeed, but would they have mesmerized the PL for 6-7 years, minus Messi? Its worth pondering.

  106. DW Thomas

    Jun 09, 2014, 19:17 #52593

    Some of the things I am hearing today are baffling. Since when did someone with skill, grit, and passion have to have size to be great? Zidane was slender,yet,arguably the best of his generation. Xavi, Iniesta, Scholes, Maradona, Cryuff, the list goes on of great players that were small, maybe a little stocky, but their size didn't matter. It's quickness if thinking combine with pure skill. An ability to see the play 1 or 2 steps ahead of everyone else. The last couple days I have heard some of you stating that Balotelli and now Milner would be better to have than Cesc back. That to me is astounding. Can't believe it. Sure we need a top class striker, have for years, and a tough DM, also, have for years. But passing on a proven WC winner with some of the best skill Arsenal have ever seen, especially as he was just a lad when he began with us, is embarrassing frankly. I respect your opinions boys, but on this one I think you're flat wrong. And the money argument will never fly again. Dortmund and Athletico had chances to do the double, and one was 2 minutes from it. Yet, many say we can't win the league and CL at the same time? The reason to me that Dortmund and Athletico lost the CL final was their lack of depth compared to their opponents. Yes, that can have to do with $$$, but there is more to it than just that. The right players to complete a team and make champions is never just about money is it? Otherwise Man City or Chelsea should win every year! Milner and Cesc is like a Ford to a Ferrari!

  107. DJ

    Jun 09, 2014, 19:05 #52592

    BADARSE. I agree we have been managed brilliantly as a financial organisation. However, we happen to be a football club. If Cesc is not meant to be let us at least push the boat out and buy proven quality we need in the three positions most needed. We shall see the clubs ambition by the end of August I am yet to be convinced!

  108. BADARSE

    Jun 09, 2014, 18:52 #52591

    DJ where do you think we got the £100 million from in the first place, if it wasn't worrying about the finances? 'Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves', is an old saying and has never been more apt than in today's football forum. I also think to just say that Fabregas is better than Cazorla so swap them, isn't really an option. It would be good to have him though, it's probably just not meant to be.

  109. DJ

    Jun 09, 2014, 18:22 #52590

    Fourth place is not a trophy, it just means a bigger dividend for the shareholders. The fans who judge everything by a balance sheet and say we can't compete with Chelsea and Man City have lost the reason they became fans in the first place. I thought the OTT celebrations for the cup win would have showed Wenger what the fans prefer and I mean OTT in a good way! This is were I disagree with Westlower I think history will judge Wenger as a pragmatist who forget about the glory of the game.

  110. Nas

    Jun 09, 2014, 18:05 #52589

    What's all this "get rid of cazorla to create space for fab" crap I'm reading here? I would not sell caz for fab. Hell no! I would like fab back no doubt, but not at the expense of caz or a quality striker or defensive midfielder. If we can sign him in addition to what we have as well as a CF, GK, DM, RB then by all means. If we can't then he's not our priority The downside is Wenger will opt out of fab and still not buy the quality players we need so we end up losing in both fronts. I don't expect this summer to be any different from the previous 9

  111. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 09, 2014, 17:46 #52588

    I think it's the same old wenger he'll do what he want's even if the majority and there doesn't seem to be much doubt the majority want or would love to see him back, but if OGL doesn't that's it and that goes for any player, that's if he's not over ruled of course as might have happened in the Ozil transfer and might happen with Balotelli (lets hope so). Of course some will say he's thinking of what's best for the club, of course he is, maybe if we wouldn't have so many over the hill players clogging up the same position and medical department and players with potential that we're still waiting on to come good some day costing big wages we'd be able to afford to bring him back that's if we can't already of course, and providing it's not just more shenanigans from TKOP to help the season ticket renewals. As to why Fabregas who has played with world class players and won medals and honors galore since he left would want to come back to something that hasn't changed much since he left in the first place is a mystery i'd imagine he'd be better off with what he was used to.

  112. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 17:24 #52587

    Charlie - Sensible stuff. Agree. The Ox lad can be what he wants to be i reckon. I'm not sure that he can attain it though under Wenger's methods. I hope it doesn't mean he ll have to move on earlier rather than later but it might mean that, as hes showing all the signs of being a very top player already and he ll soon need a stage to become one seeing as he s quite fundamental to England at international level too. Is Wenger's Arsenal that stage as it stands? I don't think so, and you can bet those internationals hes playing with from the top Clubs will be telling him the same thing as sure as night follows day.

  113. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 16:53 #52586

    Ken - Youre a star, but youve just said in a nutshell why Wenger shdt be there. The modern game has by passed him now and his old died in the wool barmy notions of 'Barca lite'. How insulting that tab was to a Club like Arsenal. One thing though, you forgot 'cynicism'. Every winning team has it.We dont. Arsenal have been soft and everybody's rabbits for far too long, but try telling Wenger that. It ll only offend his 'philosophy'! Hes got to go, 3 year contract or not in my view.

  114. Charlie

    Jun 09, 2014, 16:33 #52585

    Özil has a bigger potential than Fabregas as a support striker. Its better to compare him with Ramsay and Wilshire. And those two fight over one place in midfield. In short: We are covered in that position. What we need is a proper holding midfielder. I'd rather see us put real money into a holding midfielder, striker and perhaps another winger with real pace. (since oxlade probably will be groomed in to a central midfielder.)Walcott is not our best player but maybe the most important offenive wise as everone else lack penetration. So no thanks to fabregas. A great player but in my eyes still overrated.

  115. Ken

    Jun 09, 2014, 16:29 #52584

    Ron - Name of the game is switching, tap tap is evolving, it’s okay to have a player or two like that in the side, but teams are more and more moving toward athleticism, pace, power and drive. We have none of that already. I think it was Scholes and Neville talking about the Invincibles and they said just that. That there were players who were good footballers, like Bobby, but then you had powerhouses, full of pace and strength and directness. Scholes said if you wanted to drag Arsenal into a war with the exception of Overmars all of them were up for a fight. That’s what we need to get back to, a perfect balance of technical ability fused with athletic players and directness. Get some characters, some fighters, a midfield enforcer, a pacey direct wide man, a world class forward and you’ll start to see an evolution of the side already.

  116. Nicollo

    Jun 09, 2014, 16:18 #52583

    Ozil suffers in this side because of the severe lack of mobility, pace and power in the team. I think Wenger has given him a duff deal in that everyone knows what Ozil’s game is, and he placed him in a side where he has a guy who’s as mobile as a tank on the road to Basra post air strikes, and then either side of him he put Cazorla/Rosicky/Wilshere who are all essentially trying to do the same thing as him. So you get, tap, tap, tap, tap, no pace, no directness, no finishing. So whilst Ozil needs to improve his own game, the manager needs to realise that if he wants to get the most out of his £42 Million acquisition he needs to spend again on our forward line.

  117. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 16:12 #52582

    Ken - Yes, but those types arent going to Arsenal and the Club wont pay the price. We know that. My take is that to improve, we ve got to ditch Wengers tippy tappy, gung ho style and become tighter, more defensive and more physical. Walcott s there. He needs to be told he s a wide player and forget this CF bullcrap notion he has as hes too feeble and needs to use his pace plus score goals. He can do it. Get in a real top quality forward and i mean 'top' quality. The likes of Milner as suggested, plus some protection for the back line. At least a top quality RB too. This really calls for a sea change of approach which is why Wenger isnt the man to do it in my view, but with the Club being tight arsed in mind, its as good as it gets as i see it. The emphasis HAS to be on a top goal scorer. Giroud can support such a player. Hes not as bad as hes portrayed. All of this expansive football with inefficiently talented players as Wengers practised for far too many years is hopeless and its been seen not to work esp in the tight big games.

  118. BADARSE

    Jun 09, 2014, 16:07 #52581

    I don't think there is much to say about Fabregas now, so I will say it! Broadly speaking there are two schools of thought, as in most discussions. Yes there are slight nuances and qualifications but in general it is Do/Don't buy him. I am in the 'Don'ts' camp, who I believe are quite right in identifying priorities and value. The 'Dos' seem to be ruled by the idea of a good player returning. Two distinct approaches. Fundamentals are vital in any situation where a slight error of judgement is going to be paraded as a terrible failure by the critics, and AW has critics by the truck load. How can anybody condemn his sensible and secure way of dealing with this situation? The priorities must be a RB, deputy Keeper and possibly a back up CH. That could account for up to £60 million in fees and salaries. We shan't have much left in the pot for a DM or a Striker. We may only get one of the last two mentioned anyway. We all want! It's what adults try to do-to dissuade children from demanding, whilst keeping intact their aspirations. Just desiring something isn't a good enough case gentlemen. Remember, Fabregas could cost us up to half a million quid a game, if we got him.

  119. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 16:00 #52580

    JJ - Absolutely. Im thinking on the basis that not much real cash is going to be spent. JM is better in a wider role, but i do hear you. As for the defence, in truth if there was a better quality CB in there instead of Mertersacker in particular but Koschielny too, the need for a DM would be less acute. As it is, its a pity that a job for Vermaelen cant be found as a protective shield for them? With good coaching im sure he might just do it. Defence rarely gets mentioned, as all eyes are just on the RB and elsewhere, but really we need two full backs (and a proper keeper) as well as a quality CB. Another Wenger error when he wouldn't go and get Cahill, though would he even have developed as he has at Arsenal? He d probably be looking like a clown by now under Wengers cavalier attention to defending.

  120. Ken

    Jun 09, 2014, 15:57 #52579

    Ron - We need wingers who are fast, creative and score goals. Wingers who offer pace and creativity which Milner doesn't. Any of: 1) Marco Reus/Angel Di Maria (Both are one of the best wingers in the world. Would cost 40m+) 2) Julian Draxler (would be available but probably too expensive for an unproven player) 3) Alexis Sanchez (Barca will definitely be selling either him or Pedro as they need to invest in other areas in their squad) 4) Roberto Firmino (Would be a lot cheaper than Draxler and he’s had a much better season than him) 5) James Rodriguez (Would cost a bomb but Monaco if they are to comply with FFP won’t be able to keep a hold of him realistically as they won’t be able to vastly improve the squad around him) 6) Konoplyanka (Haven’t seen too much of him but from what I’ve seen he looks explosive and powerful enough to be tailor-made for the BPL) That’s just off the top of my head.

  121. jjetplane

    Jun 09, 2014, 15:42 #52578

    RON stealing your fire a bit on Milner but I can imagine him as a more useful player in the middle and something that leftfield (see Arteta for conservative) with Balo up front would surely be some intrigue. Our trouble is that we have a manager grinding his retirement out at the completely wrong club. He should be doing it at the PSG circus while we get in a younger guy with some bite to him. I like the madness of Balo, Ozil & Milner with other bits like Ramsey, Wally, and the Ox. Not great but no worse than some others. Have not mentioned Deeefence but we are talking a Wenga Arsenal here. It would be up to the squad to delegate while he snoozes over a few DVDs.

  122. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 15:37 #52577

    Ken - True. Milner probably wouldn't avert the need for a DM. It seems Milner's price is only 10 to 12 Million though ? There are still question marks over where JM is best played at too, but i say he could play in place of/in tandem with any of those offensive midfielders we ve got as he plays left and right side and save for Ramsey, whos a shoe in now when hes fit save for rests now and again, he will get most games. He d be a great addition to the squad. It might put such as Cazorlas nose out of joint, but i'd sell him tomorrow for the right price. Seriously lacks the bite needed for big games and i feel we ve enough flat track bullies as it is, of which i include Wilshere as one.

  123. Ken

    Jun 09, 2014, 15:07 #52576

    Ron - Milner is definitely an underrated player. That said, he’s had no experience of playing as a DM before, let alone at a top club. It just screams of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole when you should just go and pay the money. Look how much Bayern paid for Javi Martinez, transformed them into winners.

  124. jeff wright

    Jun 09, 2014, 15:01 #52575

    DJ, we will have to wait and see what happens with the Maureen and Fabregas show. Cesc will have fit into the Chelsea well drilled defensive tactics that Mourinho uses , if he can do that is a matter for conjecture, it will all be very different from Wenger and Barca tippy tappy .

  125. Green

    Jun 09, 2014, 14:57 #52574

    Highbury Boy - Cesc will help Chelsea by sitting on the bench? As if he would start ahead of Oscar who is better than him

  126. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 14:56 #52573

    JJ - Right there with you on Milner. Good player. Runs his guts off and gets right into players. Hes tough as teak and quite happy to 'take one for the team'. Arteta has been a credit to his profession but hes 'gone' now. Everton had his best creative years by far before he did his knee. Quite how Wenger has ever thought he could do a heavy duty anchor role for Arsenal, speaks volumes about Wengers judgement. Arteta would have been brilliant had we have been able to have bought him in the Denilson/ Hleb years rather than those two.

  127. Highbury Boy

    Jun 09, 2014, 14:45 #52572

    Cesc was the best young player to ever wear an Arsenal shirt. One who fitted in well with Bergkamp ,Henry etc.From what I have seen of him on tv playing for Barca and Spain he is still very good,experienced in the PL and at Arsenal. He is better than our other midfielders although Ramsey does have the potential to be as good as him and we all hope that Ozil's second season is better than his first but it is by no means certain. We have had so many injuries to midfielders that I am sure he is needed but if not the manager has to be ruthless and sell Cazorla and Diaby or even Ozil. Nasri and Clichy helped City win the PL,RVP won it for Manu. Cesc will help Chelsea win the title if as expected he goes there. If we have first option on a player who wants to come back (like Henry and Flamini) we should exercise it. There is no guarantee whatsoever that Wenger will use the funds at his disposal to buy a quality striker,fb or cb even if the transfer team are in "deep discussions". This is a here and now opportunity. Take it.

  128. Denzel

    Jun 09, 2014, 14:40 #52571

    JJetplane - Giroud isn't a bad player but Benzema is another level compared to Giroud.

  129. Matthew Bazell

    Jun 09, 2014, 14:40 #52570

    If Arteta plays this season then yes it a mistake not to buy back Cesc. Bar Ramsay he would still be our best midfielder, so to swerve that option is a bad move.

  130. jjetplane

    Jun 09, 2014, 14:25 #52569

    WESTIE with you on the CF narrative which might be all it is and perhaps he may yet end up at OT and Mata may get shipped off. Do not think he is needed and I agree also on Benzema who really rides on the back of giants and I think Ollie a better bet in the hole but could see him with Balo (postie out on loan to see if he can score - perhaps for Fulham?) and to me with Ramsey, Ozil feeding and perhaps stealing goals (Ramsey the new Lampard with prettier skills) and here's where we depart. Arteta is playing too big a role and we need someone to take over that role good and proper. Move Milner into the middle! ha ha! All of this says we are below the Chelski/Citeh ambition line but a couple of good/crazy signings may supply some of the mettle we so sorely need. Whatever it takes - we have to overcome our safety which is another word for fear. Now you just need to say - let's get that bleedin' new coach in and we can own fourth/third spot with heads held high .....

  131. Graham Simons

    Jun 09, 2014, 14:23 #52568

    Quite why Arsenal should be signing a player whose heart lies elsewhere is beyond me. This is the man who has Barca DNA remember??!!! The fact is we ended the trophy drought WITHOUT Cesc. We need to be spending the money on players in positions that will improve us - namely a striker, right back and defensive midfielder/centre back. Quite some of you think the days of Cesc as captain were such halcyon times is beyond me. O for the days when Cesc was captain and we won nowt!

  132. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 13:57 #52567

    Hi Westie - thats all old ground best not trodden on really as hes now got his contract. It shd be said though that in the years when it wasn't possible for the Club to kick on post ground shift, hes already been given much credit for doing what you say by those open minded enough to give it. Where hes falling now is in not showing he still has the tools in his kit box to raise Arsenals bar. You're right though that the Club still doesn't have the muscle to outspend the usual suspects, but his failings are seemingly nothing to do with spending money and upon whomsoever and are more about him and his methods, which we all argue about on here till the cows come home. Im firmly of the view that the post ground shift years have taken a large toll on Wenger and that really once the Club emerged from the Cape Horn of its financial situ and into Lake Como, the Club should have thanked him big style and bid him good bye or at least put him upstairs some where. This is coming from someone who has wanted him moved on for 10 years.

  133. Guy in Jersey

    Jun 09, 2014, 13:32 #52566

    Mark (post no. 55695), you're spot on! It doesn't matter who we sign because Wenger can't compete with the more astute coaches now operating at the top level. However, we'll have a lot more pace if Walcott, Ramsey and the Ox can all remain injury free (especially if we pension off Arteta) and so the addition of a couple of quality players with the required pace and power in midfield and up front should bring us closer to the top sides even while Wenger continues to act as a drag on our ambitions.

  134. Noodles

    Jun 09, 2014, 13:21 #52565

    To be honest ...Cese didn't want to play for Arsenal he wanted to play for Barca and in the end it got a bit nasty with him demanding a move etc ... Also everybody keeps saying he would be taking Ozils place but he would be taking Ramsey's place as the box to box player and to be honest id much rather have Ramsey... Im firmly in the in Arson we rust camp but i have to back him in not signing him back on this one ....its only painful as he is going to Chelsea, if he was going to Milan we wouldn't be jumping up and down!!!

  135. DJ

    Jun 09, 2014, 13:20 #52564

    Jeff Wright: I hope you're right about Cesc failing at Chelsea but I think his game is more suited to the Premiership, where he flourished, than the Barcelona style. Ozil, on the other hand, is more suited to the Spanish game where it is less physical and he has more time on the ball. Only an opinion but I'm sure we are going to end up with three/four players with no Premier League experience who need a season before they are up and running.

  136. Westlower

    Jun 09, 2014, 13:19 #52563

    When you consider what a package Chelsea can afford to put together, approx £60m, for a player who is obviously surplus to requirements at Barcelona, it should tell us how much money is needed to purchase the necessary 5 players needed at AFC. The maths is simple for 5 players of similar quality/value a fighting fund of £300,000,000 is required. Time for a reality check! We cannot compete with the big 3 in the transfer market. One day Wenger will get some recognition for keeping us in the top 4 against overwhelming financial odds.

  137. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 13:16 #52562

    Jeff - his record at Barca still isnt bad though. The vagaries of that Club make it hit and miss as to who they warm too there. Him leaving at 15 was held against him it seems, not soi much for his footie. My own personal view of him is that though the fella was always a little over rated when with Arsenal, i temper that with Wengers poor management of him i.e. he never had the right players of sufficient quality alongside him (a bit like hes repeating now with Ozil). I reckon CF can do well at the Bridge. He ll have no fetching, hod carrying and crunching tackles expected of him there. JM buys players equipped to do that anyway. CF for me lacks physical stature. With it, he could have been a real great. Just my view.

  138. Amos

    Jun 09, 2014, 13:15 #52561

    "If all the reports are true Arsenal have turned down the chance to resign Cesc." In the absence of any contributions at all from any of the three parties covered in that opening sentence an awful lot of words may be wasted before finding out what reports are true or not. It is football's pantomime season though.

  139. Chris - Nottingham

    Jun 09, 2014, 13:14 #52560

    This is why we need David Dein back, to get the signing done. We should sign Cesc now, Arteta & Rosicky have been good servants but The Arsenal must continually move onwards and upwards. His position might not be a priority but if you have a chance to improve then you go for it.

  140. kilkenny cat

    Jun 09, 2014, 13:10 #52559

    Another mistake from ogl. Another 3 yrs of this unambitious fool. Cesc is better than all our current squad. True world class,who can play as a number 10,and weigh in with double figures. He wants to come back and is at his peak. Its a no brainer for me. Reminds me of when the club refused to take Brady back on several occasions. That was unforgivable,and so is this. The battle for 4th is all wenger cares about. Another 3 yrs of no title challenge and getting beat in the last 16 in the cl. Expect french league dross very soon.

  141. jeff wright

    Jun 09, 2014, 12:58 #52558

    Redsonja ,with Ivan saying that Wenger is working to a rigid budget it's a question of priorities . We need a top striker not another midfield player.I'm not expecting Wenger though to sign one and he has already stated that he will not resign Fabregas,so there is not really any point in worrying about it.I'm far from being convinced that Cesc will be a big hit at Chelsea anyway he will be under big pressure at the bridge of sighs to deliver - he failed that test at Barca where the supporters did not warm to him and that's why he is being sold.

  142. Theo Jensen

    Jun 09, 2014, 12:51 #52557

    Cheers Chrissy for clearing that up, but more importantly do you think Wenger will remedy the squad deficiencies this summer and why hasn't he done so before?

  143. Redsonja

    Jun 09, 2014, 12:48 #52556

    I can't see any howling reason for not buying Cesc. It's an absolute no-brainer. I don't care if we've got Ozil or not, Cesc should be one of our priorities. Ozil will blossom, but he's still trying to get to grips our playing culture and the PL for goodness sake. Cesc has been and done it, for us and on the world stage and we can never have enough top class midfielders in the squad, whether attack, defence or otherwise. It's the powerhouse and command centre on the pitch. Both my head and my heart say 'yes'. Spend wisely, of course, but we have enough to buy a fit Cesc and fill any other gaping holes in the squad. And if Cesc wants to come back to us, thousands of fans, like me, will be very happy Gooner bunnies. I don't want him playing for any other club in the PL but us, and I'm sick to my back teeth of Arsenal being a feeder club for the others. I want Cesc back - bring him back - end of!

  144. DJ

    Jun 09, 2014, 12:33 #52555

    The silence from the club regarding Cesc is deafening. Many say Wenger didn't have an option with all our players wanting to leave but Cesc wanted to come back and we didn't want him! He is world class and better than both Cazorla and Ozil because he has balls! Any goodwill Wenger received after our cup win has well and truly been lost. To let a player of his ability go Chelsea demands an explanation at least though I don't think I can think of one! - We seem to have more shareholders on here worrying about the shillings and pence than the passion and glory!

  145. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 12:31 #52554

    Hen - Yes. Disgraceful me not knowing isn't it! I suppose players like him miss my radar now as i dont and wont subscribe to SKY et al. Your comments on the Club 'not wanting to compete' are agreed with totally and we ve all argued, battered each other and hammered it to death on here haven't we. On Utd, i agree. Van Gaal will have them back in the CL places as soon as next Season anyway in my view.If ever there was a time for Arsenal to push the boat out for a few top players, its now i feel. Not to do so is folly in the extreme as i see it, but its highly unlikely they will.

  146. Chris

    Jun 09, 2014, 12:13 #52553

    Theo - We get 50% of the profit Barca make when selling Cesc on, not of the sell on fee itself....

  147. Ken

    Jun 09, 2014, 12:05 #52552

    Ron how are you not familiar with best box-to-box CM in the World? I and most of the football world rate him so highly because he is a fantastic all-round midfield talent and imo one of the best if not the best CM in Europe. His all-round game is very balanced, he’s like a bigger stronger and effective in the final third Jack Wilshere. Man Utd after him is worrying. If they get him they will be big time and competing for the title. Surely we can trump a team with no CL? If Wenger lets him go to Untied then he has lost his head and doesn't want us to compete at the highest level and win big trophies.

  148. WENGER OUT

    Jun 09, 2014, 11:53 #52551

    Bard - It makes nothing but sense to sign CF and sell Cazorla/release Diaby, but when was the last time Wenger did anything that made sense? Now that Wenger has another 3 years to play around with, I don't see him signing anyone of note for a couple of years at least, never mind someone as outspoken as Cesc. I expect Ramsey to leave next summer when he realises that AW has no ambition to build our cup win last season, normal service will resume and we might get another big name in 3 years time if Wenger fancies another contract. Just give up all expectation along with your season ticket and join the only camp which makes any sense - The Wenger out camp. Until this disease masquerading as a manager leaves the club, it will be false dawns and unfulfilled promises delivered with total contempt for the fans.

  149. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 11:49 #52550

    Hi Ken - Thank you. I've only heard of him of late and not all familiar. Seems like Van Gaal rates him as you do, as his same is in the tabloid rumour mill ( i think I'm in there somewhere as well and must phone my agent!!). Sounds just the ticket for what Wenger needs in my opinion, probably with a high value though!

  150. Ken

    Jun 09, 2014, 11:25 #52549

    Ron - The Yaya type player you want is Vidal. Vidal scores virtually as much goals and creates as much as Yaya but he also has absolutely monstrous defensive stats which IMO makes him the better and certainly the more complete player. He also was excellent for Juventus in the UCL this season, dominated against Real Madrid.

  151. jeff wright

    Jun 09, 2014, 11:19 #52548

    Personally I have no problem with the school of thought that says Wenger must build his side around Ozil. You don't pay 42m for a player and millions in wages to have him just making up the numbers. I just think that Ozil was the wrong option and Wenger now has to sleep (yawn)in the bed that he has made playing his outdated yesterday's football.. The notion that Wenger should buy back Fabregas to stop Chelsea having him seems rather absurd , the fact is that Fabregas at Barca is like Ozil was at Real,surplus to requirements . We are only playing for 4th place in the Prem and the champs league group stage cash, reality has to kick-in sometimes. What Wenger needs to do to help in his more modest ambitions, than Mourinho's ones, is to buy a top mobile striker ,same situation at Chelsea but with a different approach to match the different ambitions. Wenger needs to do what Mourinho is doing and get that sorted rather than waste money on another playmaker that he doesn't need. Unlike Mourinho though Wenger will not buy a top striker, Jose puts Lukaku out on loan ,Arsene would have him in our first team facing Real Madrid and therein lies the difference between Wenger's nemesis and himself. Anyway, no doubt Arsene is well settled in now in his plush air-conditioned hotel in Brazil .There's an awful lot of coffee in Brazil to help keep him awake - and plenty of young kids kicking footballs around for him to peruse. The French team is of course why he is there , he gets paid loads of money to watch them,and that must relieve the boredom somewhat. I expect them to come up short again as they have done in past tournaments these current French players are not anywhere near to the Vieira/ZZ era ones and this is mirroed in the onesthat Wenger buys to play for us also. . Arsene though in his in-match and post one comments will blame the French farce on the climate ,pitches,dodgy refs and anti-football etc. All of this is familiar stuff to us of course (big yaaaaawwnnnnn)but the French TV audience only get to hear it now and then. They are very fortunate.C'est la vie!

  152. Ricky

    Jun 09, 2014, 11:10 #52547

    Ron - Ozil often looks frustrated of trying to feed balls to one target man all evening. Arsenal will have to raise their game big time if they want to keep Ozil, because like Fabregas, Henry and Van Persie, he’s not going to stay very long if Wenger keeps dicking around in fourth place.

  153. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 11:06 #52546

    Black Hei - Yes, but Fabregas is classed as 'home grown' for purposes of the rules isnt he and that will be a bonus for Chelsea. Pogba certainly looks a good player granted.

  154. teshome

    Jun 09, 2014, 10:51 #52545

    Wenger has only one quality which training how to play sexy game that is all.I have a lot of respect for him but now when it comes to decision, whom to buy, how to negotiate with the players agents, when to buy the right players,even when to change the players on the pitch he is definitely poor.He need some one to help him so for me Winger has to buy Cesc and sell carzola and other players. Otherwise believe he will keep doing what he has been doing for the last 9 years. Shortly he can't do more with this fragile squad

  155. Theo Jensen

    Jun 09, 2014, 10:49 #52544

    Something not many people have picked up on is that we get 50% of the sell-on fee for Fabregas going to a different club (not sure what the papers are saying about this being sidestepped, I think the clause is nailed down.). I suspect Wenger wants to hoard more money and thinks we have enough players in that position. To be honest, we could have bought Mata for £17m in 2011, and if we had done, we probably wouldn't care about Fabregas now. It's a shame that Wenger can't see when there are deficiencies in the team. We've got some £100m in the bank already and could have a complete squad with a four or five quality additions.

  156. Black Hei

    Jun 09, 2014, 10:48 #52543

    @RON You know what. The truth is, there is someone so much more suitable for JM on the market. Paul Pogba. After selling Luiz for an exorbitant fee, they have the $$. Even on top of the Diego Costa thingy.

  157. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 10:46 #52542

    Mark - Cant argue with that at all! Ozil does seem the type who thinks hes doing the Club a favour by putting his kit on and you're right he must be naffed off by the drop in quality around him vis his Madrid days. Its a fact that the best players in teams at ANY level of football, from pub teams upwards get really peed off if those around them don't cut it. You're also right though to suggest that hes doing his reputation no good at all.

  158. QuartzGooner

    Jun 09, 2014, 10:36 #52541

    If Fabregas is willing to come then we should buy him, though rumours persist of a rift with Wenger ( please see The Forum on this site for details, where a dedicated Fabregas thread poll has 70% of voters wishing him to return.) Why should we buy him? Because the following midfield would be very tasty: Ramsey and Flamini in the middle. Cesc as number 10. Ozil and Walcott as wide men.

  159. Mark

    Jun 09, 2014, 10:36 #52540

    Yes we don't need him and it would be a waste of money when it should be spent on fixing on our weaknesses. Will the weaknesses be addressed by Wenger? Of course not. With Wenger in charge we all know he will not do what it takes, because he never does. As for Ozil he is suffering and, although he’s lazy, his performances are hindered by the tactical imbecile running the team. Basically, when Ozil has the ball he has three options – motor forward and create a chance for himself (very rare), play it to wide players who waste his pass by coming infield, or pass to the big lump up front. Ozil is redundant in Wenger’s system and I don’t see a way out of that unless the system is changed. Ozil might supply a trinket of genius every now and then, but as long as he doesn’t come under Wenger’s definition of “stupid”, he’ll get out quick before his reputation is ruined. All the failings of this season and the past nine will be repeated. Lack of squad depth, lack of rotation, central midfielders playing wide, no width, injuries being put down to bad luck or hair dye – when clearly it’s because Wenger abuses them physically. And of course, the same old tired tactics, the same old formation in every single game, irrespective of the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition. Meanwhile, you can expect Wenger to continue to sit perched on his seat like a constipated owl, utterly clueless about how to respond under duress, while the board says nothing and knows nothing about the reasons behind Wenger’s underperformance. No clarity, no vision, no expertise, but £140m sitting in the bank unspent for no reason whatsoever – it’s not used for debt, it’s not used for financial investment and, criminally, not player investment – because the clueless tactical berk of our times thinks he knows best; the great destroyer of his own reputation. Add to that poor pre-match tactical preparation, key players being driven into the ground until they break down and Wenger blurting out the same pathetic, boring, patronising guff lapped up by the stupid masses.

  160. Bob

    Jun 09, 2014, 10:29 #52539

    As so often in the past 8 years, I think Wenger's judgement about who to buy or sell is flawed. While I agree we have more options in midfield than in other key areas, none of them (including Ozil) are in Cesc's class. Rosicky will be 34 soon, Wilshere is injury prone, Arteta's star is waning. Fabregas is a proven talent in the premiership, with some of his best years to come. £27 million is not an unrealistic price. We must be mad to allow someone who, along with other signings, would make a world of difference to our prospects to go to a side who already have Hazard, Willian, Oscar, Ramirez, Schurle etc, etc.

  161. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 10:25 #52538

    Black Hei - Great points. I have a suspicion that CF will actually be a 'Mr Abramovitch signing' to be honest. Youre right he isnt a JM type player, but JM tows Mr As line these days since his return. Yes, i agree, he ll not play advanced midfield, he ll create from a deeper position behind the forwards there. If JM uses him right he ll be great for Chelsea. Hes far better than Mata was. I was never taken with him and dont think he ll last long under Van Gaal either. TIMAO - also right matey, CF wont get the game at Chelsea that he perhaps thinks he will. As you say, his bench time at Barca will serve him well. Rotation will be OK for CF though. Chelsea play a physical game and CF seems to fatigue when played often and under pressure of games as hes not a heavyweight is he. He ll do well there if they do sign him.

  162. Timao

    Jun 09, 2014, 10:10 #52537

    Ron - Do you actually believe Fabregas would start at Chelsea? He isn't defensive enough for Mourinho to play him deep. Even in his best position is he better than the Oscar who Mourinho loves? I don't think so. Whats likely is he will be a rotated player and he is probably adjusted to it as thats what he was at Barca.

  163. Black Hei

    Jun 09, 2014, 10:06 #52536

    @RON If JM wants Cesc, I will be very surprised. He sold Mata, to buy Cesc? I guess Cesc can play in Lampard's position. But without Lampard's engine, he is not going to get into goal scoring positions. Perhaps he is signed to ping accurate long balls when on the counter from a deep position? Or signed to do a Lukas Modric impression? Cesc can also perhaps play in Oscar's position, but with Oscar there, I guess not. So I guess, Fabregas is signed to do a pacesetter type of midfielder, like Modric. Someone to dictate pace when they have possession. I am sure Fabregas can do that, but that sure isn't JM style of football. JM, does not want possession, he wants to break with purpose. I am really confused by this whole thing. I am sure he can easily find someone else to do Lampard's job far more effectively than Fabregas.

  164. ethan

    Jun 09, 2014, 10:00 #52535

    No Wenger won't sign Cesc Fabregas back because Wenger is a fraud who doesn't want his failures shown because he wasted £42.5m on a player who's performances and attitudes have been a disgrace, who was Arsenal’s least effective attacking midfielder, a man who believes his gifts are so great - and he's held in such esteem by those around him, that it's beneath him to graft for the team and plays like he thinks he’s doing Arsenal a favour.

  165. Black Hei

    Jun 09, 2014, 9:55 #52534

    I think the trophy drought has driven fans insane. Buying Cesc and selling Carzola? I don't know, I mean let's put Cesc on the wings, it will work because he is a "better" player. Cesc is also more loyal than Carzola because he wants to come to us, as opposed to Carzola who is less loyal since he is already with us with a few more years to go. The only way to restore sanity is to buy another Barca player, Alexis Sanchez, and Bard will say "Yeah, I have been telling Wenger all season long that a pacey guy is exactly what we need".

  166. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 9:54 #52533

    PS - Bard - if we 'kept our own'? he s Spanish and he left 3 years back. so how does that work? When do we ever keep our own? Plus, we re not selling him to a 'rival' really. Be honest, Chelsea have long since not been a rival to Arsenal. Arsenal as a Club don't aspire to reach the objectives that Chelsea do. The same applied when we sold RVP. That was the final clear admission that Arsenal have stepped out of that kind of ambition. From Cesc's point of view a move to Chelsea would be brilliant. New start, top Coach, play in a position that he excels in with top players, correct rotation, top striker to feed and play off. Hes 27. Hes the chance there to become the player he never had the chance to become at Arsenal (largely due to Wengers mismanagment of the guy) and to remove his Barca frustrations too. I wish him well as i did when he left for Barca. He deserves a chance to reach the very top properly, if its true hes coming back to the PL. What is there at Arsenal to attract him really apart from sentiment? He would risk leaving in frustration in a few years and regret that he never maximised his career chances if he came back to the Arsenal.

  167. Ron

    Jun 09, 2014, 9:39 #52532

    I think AW is right to reject him. We need a Ya Ya type but i accept we arent going to get one (even if one exists) but what isnt need is a Fabregas type. Theyve paid the money for Ozil and he needs a second season to get his game right. The Club need to make Cazorla step up to by coaching his game better to help him. In my CF wouldn't improve the team by much. Yes he s (maybe) better than what we ve got, but not sufficiently so to just justify lumping so much transfer cash on him, not to mention his wage. So far as midfield goes, they could do worse than get James Milner in there. OK he isn't glamorous and handsome and certainly not a pretty footballer (Wengers usual stock requirements for a signing!)but hes experienced, the right age and getting him would allow the Club to buy a real striker, RB and a DM, plus in my view, get in a goalkeeper who commands and dominates his goal. This clamour for Fabregas by some fans is just wistful reminiscence as i see it Bard.

  168. Muz

    Jun 09, 2014, 9:38 #52531

    Arsene has been wrong for the last 9 yrs.. still gets a new fat contract.. so what is one more mistake..

  169. Clive the Gooner

    Jun 09, 2014, 9:12 #52530

    Fabregas is better than Carzorla and co as you say, also it would stop Maureen from getting him so why not get him back?

  170. lance peters

    Jun 09, 2014, 9:04 #52529

    the 40mil on ozil last year was a mistake. we hud have bought a 20mil striker and 20mil defensive midfielder. and this season we wud had the opportunity to re-sign cesc and wud be on the same level as city and chelsea. pathetic managemnt of funds from arsenal

  171. Michael odonnell

    Jun 09, 2014, 8:52 #52528

    I agree, we should get fabregas even just to stop our rivals getting him, Get rid of carzola diaby, and it would show we look after the players who love the club, im sure Ouzil would step up with the arrival of fabrigas and we would be stronger for sure.

  172. Westlower

    Jun 09, 2014, 8:51 #52527

    Signing Cesc is not what the team needs at this moment in their evolution. Only if Cazorla left would it make sense for Fabregas to return. I'm sure Ozil will improve significantly next season now he's learnt what English football is all about. The long term aim is surely to build a team around Ozil as his best is yet to come. We may have already seen the best of Fabregas in his time at AFC. In the PL he scored 35 goals in 212 (16%) appearances for Arsenal & 13 goals for Spain in 87 (15%) games. Ozil has scored 5 from 25 (20%) PL games & 17 goals from 53 (32%)games for Germany. The immediate future of AFC has to be centered around Ozil, not Fabregas. The fee and wages required to resign Cesc would blow our transfer budget to pieces. A reputed £27m + £200k a week wages over 3 years makes the deal worth nearly £60m. That leaves AFC with a reputed budget of £40m to buy 4 other players, GK, RB,DM,CF to strengthen our squad. However you juggle it, signing Cesc is the wrong move.

  173. the lord giveth and the lord taketh away

    Jun 09, 2014, 8:47 #52526

    If Arsene does not want him then it must be the correct decision. Just as our lord knows the correct value and wage of a player he also knoweth who is surplus to requirements. Go forth and multiply Cesc.

  174. Anjalo

    Jun 09, 2014, 8:43 #52525

    Selling RVP to Utd was bad enough but this is much worse. I have heard all the arguments but It would strengthen Arsenal as a FC if we signed Cesc back. It would send out a very strong message. Now it feels as though we have just handed the title to Chelsea with Costa, probably irrationally, while we are still scraping around for quality players. Not happy!

  175. radfordkennedy

    Jun 09, 2014, 8:38 #52524

    By not taking up the option that would suggest Arteta and Diaby are not moving on or a cheaper option is being lined up,as I said before its a question of priorities and I'm more concerned about a striker and a goalie and I'm very pleased to hear this morning were being linked with the saints RB the boy's mustard and I hope something comes of it.CF is a great player there's no doubt but we have to spend wisely in other areas and try not to get to emotional about the prodigal son.I would love to see Balo here but I have always loved a maverick,but I can't see such a strong character fitting into AW's plans.

  176. Phuong Tran

    Jun 09, 2014, 8:35 #52523

    Can't agree more. Arsene pls look back all injuries record whis has been true and recurrent. And do we really want to add force for our direct competitors?