Where to Now for the AMGs?

The Argument for Arsene



Where to Now for the AMGs?


Remember the moronic shouts after the first game last season: “Spend some f***ing money!”? Never mind who’s actually available on the transfer market, never mind that Arsene for some bizarre reason has never seen any point in buying players who weren’t actually better than those already in the squad. Just spend some f***ng money for the sake of spending some f***ng money. They’re the same people, I suspect, as those who insist Arsene Must Go, although any suggestions they then come up for replacing a man who is still internationally acclaimed as one of the greatest managers of all time are either ludicrously inadequate or are cloud cuckoo-land fantasies.

As it happens, soon after that defeat to Aston Villa, he did spend some money and bringing a world class player like Mesut Ozil to the club for an Arsenal record transfer fee certainly had a galvanising effect on the squad and fans alike. Together with this summer’s signings, the arrival of Ozil (and the wonderful Cazorla the previous year) confirmed that the long years of financial retrenchment following the move to the new stadium are finally over and Gooners at last can look to the future with some optimism.

So have we heard the last from the AMGs? I doubt it. “Fourth place again is just not good enough for a club like Arsenal.” Such mindless arrogance ignores all the positives and reasons to be cheerful to be taken from last season. Such as:
1. The long trophyless drought finally ended with our FA Cup success, and although our ties, by the luck of the draw, were all played at home, on the way to the final we beat three teams in the top six of the Premiership.
2. We led the league for longer than any other club, and I for one have little doubt we would have made a much more sustained challenge for the top spot if we hadn’t been plagued by the unprecedented number of serious long-term injuries, most of them to key, irreplaceable players.
3. When it looked as if our season was falling apart we still rallied and comfortably achieved a Champions League play off place for the 18th successive season.
4. After that first game, we were unbeaten at home for the rest of the season.
5. Games against Spurs – P3, W3, L0.
6. The nineteenth consecutive season we’ve finished above our North London would-be rivals.
7. We continued to watch what so often was sparkling football played in the best stadium in the country.

Any Arsenal fan whose memories go back as far as mine (I went to watch the great Wolves team for my first match at Highbury in 1956 but by the final whistle a lifelong Gooner had been born) will tell you that by the standards of our performances in the post war and pre-Wenger years 2013-2014 has to be judged a comparatively successful season. Let’s be honest. Arsene’s success in his first eight years in charge (three Premiership titles, which included the Invincibles season, four second places and three FA Cups) spoiled us. But don’t expect our Johnny-come-lately supporters to show any gratitude or appreciation of all that was achieved. Such is their absurdly unrealistic expectations, because we haven’t finished top since 2004 the last ten years are written off as unmitigated failure and the solution is obvious: “Arsene Must Go!”

No recognition, then, that for historical reasons Man U. have for more than 50 years had a wider fan base and stronger finances behind them than we could ever match, so for Arsenal to pip them for the top spot three times out of eight between 1998 and 2004 was a fantastic achievement that no other club came anywhere near matching. No recognition that from the 1950s to the late 1980s, in the national pecking order we were also behind Liverpool and Leeds and on a par with clubs like Everton and Spurs. Nor that the billionaires who took over Chelsea and Man City completely changed the face of football in this country. The unlimited funds at their disposal, funds which reflected their owners’ wealth rather than the clubs’ fan base and income from football sources, introduced an element of financial unreality – and irresponsibility - to the Premiership. In the climate they have created, neither we nor any other financially prudent club can hope to compete with the unrealistic transfer fees and the salaries they are prepared to pay to buy success. Inevitably, over the last decade they have recruited better players than we could afford, including poaching some of our own stars who doubled their salaries by moving north.

All this at a time when the purse strings were tightly tied as we made sacrifices to finance the move to the Emirates. Something else, incidentally, Arsene is still often blamed for by sentimentalists too blinkered to see that, given football’s changing financial climate, staying at Highbury in the medium to long term would have condemned us inevitably to mid-table mediocrity at best. Not least of Arsene’s gifts is his financial acumen; eight years on and the financing of the new stadium is under control (let’s see how long it takes Spurs to get to such an enviable position should their Walter Mittyish dreams for developing the Lane ever come to fruition!) Look how he has contributed to maximising our revenues:
• by creating a stadium where 60,000 fans flock to watch every home game;
• by maximising our TV receipts by producing entertaining teams people want to watch…
• and by taking us into the Champions League and then on to its knock out stage year after year;
• by his astute buying and careful development of young players while making huge profits on the players we have been forced to sell when their financial greed proved stronger than their loyalty. (No, that’s not fair. Which of us, let’s be honest, would turn down the opportunity to double our wages during the few years left of our careers?)

Here I’ll state a simple fact: Arsene is the greatest Arsenal manager ever. So we went a few years without winning a trophy. What’s new - it’s happened many times in our history. Nothing won at all until 1931. Eighteen years without a league championship between 1953 and 1971 with just an Inter-Cities Fairs Cup to put in the trophy cabinet in 1970. Then eighteen more years before our next title and just one FA and one League Cup to celebrate during that time. Georgie Graham, blessings upon him, then raised our expectations, but even he doesn’t come close to matching the consistency of Arsene’s record. Nor can any other manager, not even the legendary Herbert Chapman, who after his great success managing Huddersfield was in charge for five years before he led us to our first ever league title. Add up Arsenal’s final league position under each manager and divide by the number of years they were in charge and the calculation will give you the average position achieved under their stewardship. Here’s the table in reverse order of success:

12 Jack Crayston Average Position: 12
11 Billy Wright 10.4
10 George Swindin 9.25
9 Bertie Mee 8.3
8 Don Howe 6.66
7 Terry Neil 6
6 Herbert Chapman 5.4
5 Tom Whitaker 5.2
4 George Graham 5.1
3 Bruce Rioch 5
2 George Allison 4.83
1 Arsene Wenger 2.94

All the more astonishing: Arsene has achieved such consistency over a far longer reign than any of his predecessors (Tom Whitaker and Bertie Mee with 10 seasons apiece are our joint second longest serving managers). “Ah, yes, all very well,” reply the AMGs, “but what about the last ten years?” Answer: average position over that period: 3.5. I rest my case.

So let us give thanks for the admirable Arsene. His revolutionary methods transformed not only our own training regime and style of play (“Boring, boring Arsenal!” has become our own supporters’ ironic celebratory chant rather than mockery by our opponents’ fans), but have been widely copied both in England and abroad. This manager has brought us unprecedented footballing success and raised the profile and respect for our club throughout the world. His financial acumen, after moving us to one of the world’s finest football stadiums, has transformed us into the fifth most valuable football club in the world. Moreover, few managers have ever commanded the almost universal respect and affection of the players who have worked for him. When did an Arsene player do other than express gratitude for his guidance in improving his game or admiration of the man’s wisdom and personal integrity?

And let us also give thanks for the wisdom of the Arsenal board for their loyal support, for the trust they have so consistently shown in the manager’s vision and judgment, and not least for turning a deaf ear to the groundswell in recent seasons of anti-Arsene bleating. It emanates, I believe, from those most fickle of “fans”, the easily bored, the cravers of novelty for its own sake. The ones, in other words, who place no value either on stability or a consistent record of success. If that should happen to be your own mindset, you really would be much happier down the Lane. Twelve different managers during Arsene’s reign here, surely that should satisfy even the most voracious appetite for innovation. If you happen to be on speaking terms with a Spud, incidentally, ask him how he feels about the statistic!


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273
comments

  1. jjetplane

    Jul 23, 2014, 17:57 #54202

    Liked to have met Lautremont though for a 'chat'....

  2. jjetplane

    Jul 23, 2014, 12:55 #54189

    Homer, Hemingway, Krishnamurti, Carver, Egan, Mann, Munthe, Thompson, Ellison (both), Lessing. Subs used: Miller, Marvell, Blake, Anon and Huysmanns. When are getting in the Chilean coach? 'Now is the time...'

  3. radfordkennedy

    Jul 23, 2014, 6:25 #54179

    Ron...and the company would be good mate.Robert Johnson and Elmore James are two who I wouldnt mind a chat with

  4. BADARSE

    Jul 22, 2014, 22:43 #54176

    Ron, a good choice of author.

  5. Ron

    Jul 22, 2014, 22:19 #54175

    Richard - FFS,go get a tumbler and a bottle of JD and some Mark Twain and absorb all. Heaven is where you go for the weather, hell is where you go for the company. Go forth.

  6. BADARSE

    Jul 22, 2014, 20:38 #54172

    Well maguiresbridge I have to report that unfortunately it is French bier. When offered and you hear cries of, 'Oui, oui.' it is in fact, 'Wee, wee.', being spoken, and sadly in derisory terms. Let that not deter you though. We can offer a 'plat du jour.', as an accompaniment, which is more of those stewed eels I'm afraid. These ones are French though-much shorter than the English variety, but have their own crash helmets affixed. You would need to sup with bread, so a baguette is there to share. Bon appetite mon brave. Now repeat, 'One Arsene Wenger, there's only one...'. Shhh, le diable.

  7. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 22, 2014, 19:43 #54171

    BADARSE, i'm not saying i can be bought cheaply but what's the beer like.

  8. Richard

    Jul 22, 2014, 18:53 #54170

    A Jehovah's witness told me recently that his God is far too kind to send anyone to hell. I explained to him that his God was a phoney and not the true God of the bible.The true God doesn't want to save anybody except his small flock, who he predestined before the world was created.The vast majority of mankind 99.9% (could be more or less) will perish forever in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone.God is a holy God and only cares about his righteousness and those Christ died for, not for self righteous religionists and carnal worldlings. Ozil,Diaby and Ramsay can pray all day to their false God's it's all futile.

  9. BADARSE

    Jul 22, 2014, 18:04 #54169

    Richard, there is no hell, so feet stretch right down to the ground. Always struck me as odd that anyone would want to fill a child's head with fear and loathing when the sun shines so brightly on us all, and the world is majestically beautiful. Still, I don't understand why anyone faced with a simple choice would ever opt to be a Sour rather than a Gooner, but each to his own I suppose. Peace young man, whatever you conceive it to be, and wherever you can find it.

  10. Richard

    Jul 22, 2014, 17:17 #54167

    BADARSE:You speak with a silver tongue and you know how to flatter your neighbour.Your little ditties are very amusing yet I bet many a an unsuspecting female has been caught in your net.RadfordKennedy:To take your advice, I would have to be a fool.'A wise man resists the strange women, her feet go down to hell.

  11. BADARSE

    Jul 22, 2014, 15:19 #54163

    Thank you Richard, and goodnight. maguiresbridge, look into my eyes. Bard is amongst friends, he is safe, come and join him, cross over, we await with open arms-and of course a big broom with strong bristles. This is not blarney, it is the real meal deal McCoy. Take my word, and my hand, your watch is safe in my keeping also. Now off to Missus McCracken's hocking shop, should get a princely sum for an Arsene Wenger watch which points both ways. Don't worry about the jellied eels, stewed eels are much more satisfying, lovely hot liquor, poured over, and poured over, and over, and come over, cross over. There, now here is your broom, just like Bard's, red and white with your names on them-on the command 'one', begin!

  12. Richard

    Jul 22, 2014, 14:23 #54162

    The AKB and AMG bickering seems foolish to me.The AKB supporters seem the more patient of the two, yet the AMG seem to be the more downtrodden and probably poorer.You really need to unite before your idol is destroyed. It reminds me of the Arminian, Calvinist debates that take place daily in the false churches.This has been going on for 600 years and still nobody can resolve it.Yet I can resolve it in three words.Your all lost.

  13. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 22, 2014, 13:53 #54159

    Bard Bard, come back before it's to late, don't let the moonies sorry goonies get you, you'll never get back out of that new fortified AKB central command being built in Margate, anyway you'll never be accepted as a true AKB they'll always look at you suspiciously and give you the dirty jobs like sweeping everything they don't like about their messiah under the carpet without a mask, and make you eat jellied eels all day, while they sit in their nice clean air conditioned air brushing department finger on the button ready to click.

  14. BADARSE

    Jul 22, 2014, 11:59 #54155

    Hello jeff wright. I have no problem with your point of view buddy. Also there is no competition for who is ahead in the queue. I just wanted to express a point that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend. You have much to bring to the table, I just think you get locked into a two-dimensional view. Chill buddy. Life can be good, we are the fortunates, many have much suffering, they are 'Les miserables'...ah, now where is my 24601?

  15. Micky baby

    Jul 22, 2014, 11:44 #54153

    Really good article. I was annoyed last season with the high scoring defeats against Liverpool, horrible chelsea etc but am galvanised by the signings, winning the FA Cup and think we can in again this season, come on the gooners

  16. jeff wright

    Jul 22, 2014, 11:41 #54152

    Badarse, when in comes to making a fool of them-self 'over AFC related things' I will always be in a line behind you. This AFC things is anyway actually just AKB speak for ARSENE. I can't recall being wrong about anything that Arsene has done or failed to do over the past 9 years. I even suggested that he had a good chance of winning the FAC back last November .I was also right about him not winning the Prem,when you ad others were making mugs of yourselves claiming that he would.

  17. radfordkennedy

    Jul 22, 2014, 11:37 #54151

    Richard...fella get yourself a bottle of glenmorangie a very bad woman and put on Humble Pie live in L A '81,life will become so much enjoyable

  18. Richard

    Jul 22, 2014, 9:27 #54144

    You have to remember BADARSE believes in evolution,that the world started from a BIG BANG that we evolved from APES that man is his own God with a freewill to choose what he wants and having a different sexuality is just another vocation in life.All promoted by the great philosophers of our time who in general lived very wicked lives.Still as long as Arsenal are loaded and lording it over the minnions we can all be proud.

  19. BADARSE

    Jul 22, 2014, 9:24 #54143

    Oh dear Bard, Richard must have had a real effect on you. No one person is worthy of such unquestioning compliance, though on occasions I bump up against that line. Do you ever travel to the Isle? Are you allowed in? I am trying to track down Colin, then we could sit you down in the middle and each of us could blow in your shell-like's. I see a success on the horizon as you wander off, smile on your boat, eyes like Catherine wheels, repeating that you have seen that blinding light; or alternatively just share a jar. What do you do with yourself in the region apart from giving succour to jeff wright, maguiresbridge and Ron?

  20. Bard

    Jul 22, 2014, 8:35 #54142

    Badarse: I follow our spiritual leader with uncritical devotion . MargateColin has shown me the way. I am now able to see light where there was only darkness. In time i hope to be accepted as a true AKB. I can now see that the near decade of trophy emptiness was merely a blip, a mere nano second in cosmological terms. I will continue to fight to pay even higher season ticket prices so we can sign more disabled footballers like Kallstrom and I will fight all those who are so stupidly narrowminded as to believe that football is about winning matches. It's an opportunity to worship our spiritual leader. Can there be a greater purpose for any lifelong gooner? Here endeth the lesson.

  21. BADARSE

    Jul 22, 2014, 7:32 #54140

    jeff wright although I am reasonably content whilst you make a fool of yourself with many AFC related observations, I am quietly concerned when you mug yourself off in an everyday situation. Richard has a secret agenda which is transparently obvious. You walk straight in-it's like the spider and the fly. The criticisms you are so readily agreeing with him over are cloaked. You criticise because you are locked into such a negative tail spin with a deep-rooted condemnation of all things AFC. He because he has a narrow god-fixation. Neither of you are discussing the same thing. You are making observations about people. You vilify because it fits your remit of being anti-Arsenal: he because they are perceived as anti-god. I make those same observations and any failings and conclude that they are because they are human. We are all fallible. Try not to be sucked in too easily, I can't and won't always be around to try to bail you out and advise.

  22. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 22, 2014, 0:05 #54136

    Block G Gooner, probably not, but that makes little difference to the AKB's, when you see the manager as their messiah and believe he can do no wrong, and support him more than the club.

  23. Block G Gooner

    Jul 21, 2014, 23:10 #54133

    Were you at the FA Cup Semi where we struggled to beat a championship team on penalties or the FA Cup final where the players strolled on the pitch thinking they had already won only to be 2-0 down and very lucky not to be 3-0 down within 11 minutes.....probably not as if you were, you would know that our Manager was literally minutes away of being hounded out of his job, one swallow makes a summer not!!!

  24. jeff wright

    Jul 21, 2014, 22:38 #54131

    Richard, add the sobbing as well,it really is the crying game now days... they are all at it sob...sob... they cry when they win they cry when they lose ... hypocrisy is rife in the game as well ... Suarez paraded around Anfield with his daughter wearing a Liverpool shirt waving at supporters in what he knew was his last game for that club ... next time the kid will be wearing a Barcelona shirt and waving at their supporters... deja vu Sagna at the parade after the FAC win his kid had on an Arsenal shirt and was waving at supporters even though he knew that he was offski to Poundlands... the game is awaah with money and everyone istrying to get as much of it as they can... greedy Arsene with an estimated 60m fortune salted away and only an FAC win in 9 years to show for it demanded more money to stay ... and he's not even secured the Champions League dosh yet for Ivan to help balance the books with ! Lies..chicanery and deceit are also alive and well and up and running ... I note that the Khederia alleged signing has faded away ( as I predicted to Westie last week that it would) just as hopes were getting high... this is the norm though with these stories about top players being in negotiations with Wenger every summer ... it's amazing that some folk still swallow them ... but they do !

  25. Lee afc

    Jul 21, 2014, 21:57 #54130

    Jeff.....you have stated that '' one of my main problems with Mr wenger is that he refuses to acknowledge that he makes mistakes and his derisive abusive comments that he makes towards his critics leaves him open to the abuse he then recieves back''........did you and Mr wenger get separated at birth.....POT, KETTLE, BLACK.

  26. Richard

    Jul 21, 2014, 19:45 #54125

    Wenger being a typical as you would say 'Frenchie' will always fall into their national sin being fornication with the odd strange women.Just like the English boys with their natural rowdy disposition always have a particular love for drunkeness. That never really bothers me as all unregenerate men either live that way or want to live that way,the law condemns both parties.What I find more nausiating is all this false piety,false religious, praying to Allah or crossing themselves to the false Romanist Church guff that these players do.

  27. arry

    Jul 21, 2014, 17:23 #54123

    Amos you forgot to mention loan/free signings of Adebayor (top scorer) and Brad Friedel (ever present) at the same time I bought Scott Parker. Player recruitment certainly strengthened my team that season :-)

  28. BADARSE

    Jul 21, 2014, 15:43 #54118

    Bard that is intriguing, what is your true vocation that you now pursue so vigorously? Love Canterbury, we are at the coast and Sat eve we were at a garden party at a place in Bekesbourne village. We are regular visitors for stand-up performances of good top line acts at the Gulbenkian Theatre on Canterbury campus-where do you think I poach my material from? Liked the song title. 'Someplace Else.', Sour fans:

  29. Bard

    Jul 21, 2014, 14:05 #54116

    Badarse: I'm in Canterbury these days although only moved recently. Used to live within spitting distance of the ground and miss the sat mayhem. But I've now found my true vocation and intend to pursue it with vigour and determination of the kind only seen in GGs back four. Margate Colin ain't seen nothing yet. Wenger: my sweet Lord

  30. jeff wright

    Jul 21, 2014, 13:46 #54115

    Richard, I am responsible for my own actions,I don't blame god or anything else for any misfortunes that happen to me.One of my main problems with Arsene Wenger is that he refuses to acknowledge that he makes mistakes and his derisive abusive comments that he makes toward his critics leaves him open to the abuse that he then receives back. I have cut him some slack regarding his absurd moral posturing that he is wont to indulge in at times due to him being French ,but I see no other reason, other than financial and that of arrogant vanity on his part, for him signing a new 3 year contract. Any man with even a small amount of self awareness and shame would have resigned after the FAC win that he instead used to try and paper over the appealing away results in the league and allowed someone else to try and move the club forward out of the inertia that it has been stuck in for the last 9 years.

  31. BADARSE

    Jul 21, 2014, 13:28 #54113

    Eric Burdon's voice was top notch. Alan Price linked with Georgie Fame for a while. Thank you for that song title 24601, but I would forgive you anything-look how forgiving I am with Jiminy Cricket! One to end on, 'You Don't have to say you love me.' Arsene Wenger:

  32. Ron

    Jul 21, 2014, 12:47 #54112

    Westie - oooh dear, the Beach Boys! Dennis Wilson - Charles Mansons big buddy. Best say no more about them. Recall the Animals. House of Rising Sun et al.

  33. Richard

    Jul 21, 2014, 12:38 #54111

    Jeff Wright,After reading your posts I can deduce that you are a frustrated man yet a man who clearly see's through much of the hypocrisy of this world.ie (Ozil's charity nonsense) who also has maybe an interest in the evangelical. Tell me sir, are all your actions controlled by God or yourself?

  34. Westlower

    Jul 21, 2014, 12:38 #54110

    @Ron The Beach Boys were on after racing at Newmarket on Friday evening but I didn't hang around to see them. I was never a great fan but sometimes it's best to remember them in their pomp. 'Help Me Rhonda' was my fav track. Sorry about that but Badarse would never had forgiven me if I hadn't put that in. Picking up your point on promising young bands, the first support act(Chuck Berry was top of bill) I ever saw was a Geordie band by the name of the Animals, who didn't turn out too badly! Loved Eric Burdon's voice & attitude. Later on I saw Alan Price solo in concert.

  35. BADARSE

    Jul 21, 2014, 12:29 #54109

    Nice to read about your exploits and interests radfordkennedy, and ta for the gee. Is there any chance you could try that idea with the local council? They may have a little spare for funding. 'Puppet on a string.', Every Oiler manager: 'Like a Virgin.', Jordan: 'A Taste of Honey.', FA Cup win 2014: 'Is this the way to Amarillo?' One Direction: 'Under a Blood Red Sky.' AFC fans: and one to end on, 'Ma Baker.', Joe and his mate Ron: Sad to hear of the Clapton concert buddy. @Bard which part of Kent are you, I am East Kent but I am not Colin!

  36. Ron

    Jul 21, 2014, 12:27 #54108

    Hi Bard - That would be a very speeerituaal and mentally strong denomination wouldn't it.

  37. Ron

    Jul 21, 2014, 12:02 #54107

    Westie - Youre so very right. i usually do plus see local bands too. His support band was 'Hunter and the Bear'. Good potential young Scots band and their effort was at another level to the Eric the Diva's.

  38. Westlower

    Jul 21, 2014, 11:57 #54106

    @Ron, What a bummer that EC should behave like a prat. Haven't seen him for a few years now. Went to a few of his annual gigs at the Albert Hall & thoroughly enjoyed it. Even sat opposite George Graham coming back on the tube on one occasion. Clapton, like most old timers, has probably reached a point where he's fed up playing the same old stuff. Shame it's come to this. The moral of the story is to see talented artists when they're making their way to the top & not at the end of their careers. Same applies to footballers I guess.

  39. Ron

    Jul 21, 2014, 11:50 #54105

    Westie and Amos - Agree. On potential sales to raise cash for better, as you know, id inc Walcott to raise some real cash. Its time we stepped aside from his usual absence punctuated offerings. Sell him to anybody inc any of Liv, Utd etc or abroad. Clubs here would pay a hefty sum for him, thinking they know a secret of getting more from him. Thats how barmy transfer windows and footie is.

  40. jjetplane

    Jul 21, 2014, 11:46 #54104

    Excellent point AMOS on Ramsay. If he carries on where he left off, then we have a player everyone else would want in their team. Good post WESTIE on who to sell off and do we really need JW? Pod and Carzola could fetch a few bob and looks like Khedira is adjusting his financial requirements if reports are to be believed. Would be amazing to have two proper WC winners in the team. Then if we could just sign a manager to take it on to the ......... Ooh 2 b ah ......

  41. Stevo433

    Jul 21, 2014, 11:35 #54103

    Actually I wasn't trying to be clever Jeff, in fact I re- read your post in case I had misunderstood your point , but just felt that you had misjudged the Liverpool situation. I also realise that you get a lot of stick on this site, from two or three entrenched AKB's so might I assume that I was another these pedants. In fact I wholeheartedly agree with your points on Wenger & the direction of the club generally, so no need to take offence!

  42. Ron

    Jul 21, 2014, 11:34 #54102

    Westie - PS the big girls blouse stropped off mid way through 'cocaine'. I can only assume he's perhaps still snorting the stuff!. To be honest, without Carrack propping up his gig via some Mike and Mechanics stuff and his general organ and vocals, Clapton wouldn't be such a draw in my view. Living off old glories i suspect. Lets call him Eric Liverpool shall we from now on!

  43. Ron

    Jul 21, 2014, 11:22 #54101

    Westie - Hi mate. Ha. 14 runs is about twice my average! Turn my arm occasionally, though not often. Bit of medium stock bowler standard. The youngsters hog the bowling these days, though one of our team is 46 and still very useful with a bit of pace (ignoring his wides of course!). I do love a game though, esp in the weather yesterday. PS Mate - you asked about Clapton recently. Saw him 3/4 weeks back in Glasgow as you know. It was a disgrace mate. What a total tosser and diva. He walked off stage with a strop on blaming 'PA ISSUES'- of which only he must have known about! with 35 mins of his set to do, leaving such icons as Paul Carrack on organ, Andy Fairweatherlow and the other organist bemused. Total anger and derision amongst the many hundreds there. Ill never go see him again and am claiming funds back from the venue as are many. He was pig ignorant throughout his set, never offered a few words to the audience who had travelled from far and side, never even introduced his band members.Utter wan--r in my view. His set had been good up to the point of his strop but walked off without a word, came back after 10 mins of booing, a surly quick apology of sorts (somebody had clearly bollocked him) and played one quick song then buggered off again just as quickly as the first strop.Hope i never see him when im driving as id be tempted to run the ego ridden jerk over. Sad to say this as id been a fan for years though never seen him until the other week.

  44. jeff wright

    Jul 21, 2014, 10:49 #54100

    Stevio ,it could be down to powers of prescience I see the red scousers failing to qualify from the group stage and finishing up in the Thursday night Ropey... or I just made a deliberate mistake that you spotted ... unfortunately there is no prize for you having done so... but at least you felt it worth your time to point out the mistake... so well done... and may all the saints in heaven bless you for all the days of your life.

  45. Amos

    Jul 21, 2014, 10:16 #54098

    Transfer windows are full of disappointment Bard. Spurs spent just £8m only on Scott Parker 4 summers ago and finished 4th, £60m plus the following summer and finished 5th and £100m plus last summer and finished 6th! There's a misguided notion that simply recruiting players is the same as strengthening the team. Liverpool were much stronger last season but which of last seasons signings strengthened them? Not Alberto, Illori or Aspas that's for sure. Sakho played less than half a season and Toure looked a liability at times though he was a free signing. Mignolet maybe but I'm not sure he was better than what they had. They must have been disappointed with what they got for £50m or so I guess. Nah - Transfer windows are just bogus excitement. Much more exciting to see Ramsey or some other player who'd been written off perform like a £50m signing.

  46. Bard

    Jul 21, 2014, 9:57 #54097

    Ron: you've got to enjoy the transfer window mate, it's the best bit of the season. Undiluted hope and nil disappointment. You can't beat it. Once we get tonked by Maureen the depressing reality kicks in followed by either the injury fiasco or 'we woz robbed' posts. Until the 31st Aug I can dream we will sign Khedira plus every other talent that becomes available. I live in Kent and after Margate Colin's post I feel moved to create a new religion in Kent called Wengerism, it will be a cross between Scientology and David Icke, at it's heart will be a fundamentalism that brooks no critics. I will keep fellow posters abreast of developments. We will start each and every meeting with one of our leaders most familiar calls to arms, 'Overall we bla bla bla', it calms the mind and brings with it a devilish insight into modern times. Love and peace fellow travellers. Ps if we raise any money I will suggest we gets Amos as our treasurer.

  47. radfordkennedy

    Jul 21, 2014, 9:00 #54094

    Baddie..on my way to ouistreham at present but I couldnt let one of your comments pass,that's a terrific shout on getting inner city kids walking,there's a lot of nonsense talked about kids diet by so called experts they tend to forget that people who where young in 50s and 60s ate chips from a chip pan eggs were fried in lard or if you were really lucky in Sunday's dripping and there was always soda bread and real butter on the table.what is destroying the health of today's youth is they don't move very much.2 years ago due to worsening knee pain in the winter months I made the decision to work pretty much non stop in the summer months in France and then up to the start of November back here doing corporate outward bound courses,on occasion I get to take some youngsters who have taken a couple of wrong steps down life's path and it never ceases to amaze me how many youngsters can't ride a bike or have a problem walking more than a couple if hundred yards....Ron at least you're out scoring the England captain mate well done

  48. Westlower

    Jul 21, 2014, 8:51 #54093

    Welcome back Ron, accomplished batsman & fielder, do you bowl as well? I imagine you hurtling down the pitch and pinging a bouncer, aimed at the head of the frightened batsman? Agree with you about the myth of a war chest. Chelsea & Man City have war chests, the rest have to spend the money they earn. The game has moved on to a point where wages takes more out of the money pot than transfer fees. If we are to believe the sums reported on transfers to date then Sanchez & Debuchy have cost approx. £44m. A deal has reportedly been done for Colombian GK David Ospina at £3.2m. The wages saved by NB54 & Sagna leaving should cover most of the first year wages for Debuchy & Ospina. An extra £7.2m per year is taken up to pay Sanchez. Khedira reportedly wanted £9m p/a & Remy £4.6m p/a. That means to date approx. £54m is accounted for from our budget for new players. The big question then is, how much is left, if any? Reports in today's papers suggest we are scraping the bottom of the barrel, as we have asked about paying stage payments for DM William Carvalho (5/4 to join AFC, 2/1 Chelsea, 4/1 Man U). This has been denied by AFC. The only way to generate extra funds for the transfer kitty is to sell some of our existing players. Podolski, Cazorla, Vermaelen, Jenkinson, spring to mind. Interesting times. The bookies issued their first handicap betting for the PL. Chelsea are on scratch; Man C +1; Man U +7; AFC +8; Liverpool +11; Sours +19.

  49. BADARSE

    Jul 21, 2014, 7:53 #54092

    Good morning Bald Eagle, or should I call you Jiminy Cricket through the summer? Glad you are still sucking on acid drops, (remember those?), though I go along with your view. It is easy for jaundiced eyes to travel the gamut from scepticism, through pessimism, arriving at cynicism. Think that is enough 'isms' for a morning. Glad you had a good weekend buddy, we missed your musical input on the linked song titles. 'Da Do Ron Ron.', by Bald Eagle: Again had to end on one fella.

  50. Ron

    Jul 21, 2014, 7:33 #54091

    Morning all. I see that you lot have been at it hammer and tongs while i've been focusing on the far superior sport of cricket (yes guys, i was in decent nick for my 14 runs before a slow one duped me into a rash hit plus i took a catch taken at deep mid on when in the field - well pleased though we still lost. We often do!! Guys Arsenal have no 'war chest'. Like any business they'll invest what they can but focus on getting more from what they've got. As i see it, a new winger come striker with no PL experience and and a full back with 40 or so PL games under his belt, that even the toon fans arent sure about isnt going to propel Arsenal into dreamland. Moreover, this week end the Clubs propensity to lie through its teeth about anything has once more landed in my own and a friend's inbox. Yes, you got it. The annual offer of a Season ticket, payable on terms has arrived. This, sent to me, A bloke who doesn't even hold a mere Red Membership anymore and who dropped the old Season ticket nearly 4 years ago. 'Waiting list', my a--e! So glad, i'm out of it.

  51. Amos

    Jul 21, 2014, 7:15 #54090

    @Cornishgooner. You're quite right, I don't know and neither does anyone else outside a few within the club but thanks for the AST link. Their estimated £100m spending with estimated cash reserves of £140m seems excessive to me but they don't indicate whether they see that as a one off or what impact that level of spending in one window would have on the club's ability to spend in subsequent windows. It will have an impact as I've tried to show. I'd be surprised to see the club spend more than £70m at the top this summer which should leave them able to spend at least some £50m in subsequent seasons. We'll find out in time but the ability to spend on the squad consistently probably offers the better chance of enduring success.

  52. BADARSE

    Jul 21, 2014, 7:11 #54089

    Morning radfordkennedy, good to hear from you chum. Here in the bottom south east corner we escaped the severe weather again. A pal in Braintree emailed Friday saying the rain was falling like stair rods, (Young Guns ask your Dad), and the motorway looked as if it was covered in marbles. I was relaxing in the conservatory-preparing the formaldehyde dip-tank, ha ha. We are only just over 60 miles apart as the crow flies! Tulsa time, very honky tonk, or perhaps I should say boogie woogie, good choice-I wonder if Clapton will ever master the guitar? I'm with the crowd who think he should have taken up the piano accordion or trumpet. :-) Wife is a walker. That's very interesting. My brother used to come back from the Netherlands, where he lived, on a regular basis with friends to walk places like the Ridgeway. Once he allowed me to accompany him, (I am the eldest but I bow to his knowledge on this score), and we walked the South Downs Way. Magical memories. We have a friend who leads a lesbian walking group and we have been invited to pre-walks on occasions, we count ourselves very lucky. There should be a high profile project for kids to taste this type of venture, especially inner-city ones, (visions of orchards ablaze and unmanned tractors racing across fields, with animals running amok). 'Sloop John B.', radfordkennedy: Had to end on a song title.

  53. radfordkennedy

    Jul 21, 2014, 6:28 #54088

    West lower...baddie..thanks for the song titles they did make me chuckle,one of which very nearly proved prophetic.I decided to go and join my wife Who being an avid walker likes to go with a her friends when I'm away walking round the Cotswolds,this in reality is more of a scenic pub crawl,anyway I decided to join them on Saturday for the leg between Broadway and a place with the slightly unsettling name of Lower Slaughter and I don't know what it was like in your part of the world but a deluge of biblical proportions fell upon us and we nearly needed the Yellow Submarine you linked me with..and for the record Slowhands version of Tulsa Time happens to be my favourite tune closely followed by Picketts 3 time loser

  54. A Cornish Gooner

    Jul 21, 2014, 2:06 #54086

    Amos. AST Analysis Of Arsenal Half Year Accounts, Jun to Nov 2013. Posted Sunday 23rd March 2014 The AST therefore concludes that a figure in the region of £100m is a reasonable estimate of what is available to spend on transfers in summer 2014. This figure also allows for the wage bill to further increase by up to £20m pa for the new signings, implying a total wage bill of £180m-£185m in season 2014-15.

  55. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 21, 2014, 0:57 #54085

    If Stan says Arsene can spend, then Arsene can spend. Simple as that. Then it's all down to whether Wenger would rather be a football manager or finance director, and I think we've all found out the answer to that one over the last few years. I await a response from an apologist containing the words United and Leeds.

  56. A Cornish Gooner

    Jul 21, 2014, 0:07 #54083

    Amos. Thanks for the reply. So, you don't know, is your answer?

  57. Amos

    Jul 20, 2014, 23:49 #54082

    For all his analysis Swiss Ramble could only claim a year ago that 'it ain't easy' to estimate what Arsenal could spend on transfers but suggested the 'oft quoted' media figure of £70m could be a reasonable estimate - or even a £100m if future increases in revenues could be included. But he only considered this as a one-off spend. As far as I know the AST hasn't published a review since October 2012 when it estimated that the club could afford 2 players at £25m each - so presumably £50m. Now that's been our average annual spend (£50m) for the last 3 seasons and if the reported figures are correct we're virtually there this season to. In fact we've spent as much in the last 4 seasons as in the previous 12 seasons combined. We could probably afford to spend between £50 and £70m this season but it's important to remember that in 'spending' this money what the club is doing is incurring forward liabilities to be written off over the period of the contract. So spend £60m this season on 4 year contracts and you'll need to make provision to produce £15m a year but you're all ready having to make provision for £10m a year for last season's liabilities (more with those incurred for prior years)so forward liabilities are already at £25m a year plus impacting on your ability to spend in future seasons. These player purchases are 'intangible assets' which are increased as increased forward liabilities. These liabilities (along with other liabilities such as wages and operating costs) can be met from combined revenue streams such as matchday, broadcasting, sponsorship and potentially player trading but that doesn't always yield a profit. So how much Arsenal can spend depends to some extent on how much they have spent in previous seasons and what known revenue projections can be made. In other words only those inside the club will know for sure.

  58. jjetplane

    Jul 20, 2014, 23:20 #54081

    The idea of Arsenal and war chest in the same sentence has got the tears of laughter running. Then it gets better when we hear about our THREE WC winners. Do believe there was just one but if you wish to include in The Grand Delusion the mouthy water carrier and the equally mouthy 'this is my selfie' - be my guest. Now then WESTIE - anymore backtracking from you and you will end up in Margate. But then if Margate is to be our very own 'Mecca' who are we to argue. Let us all kneel together and pray for fourth. Four is First repeat .... Maybe Jack is seeing something the rest have not. Hence the smoke and drink and all is dandy. Bet his agent is busy. I see Ramsay (top lad) was at Barnet, Borehamwood, Margate wherever and is still injury free. Theo back at yuletide which leaves Diaby .... having a rest after the weekend. Nine bleeding years. Bet Arsenal could give carol a job offshore looking after the ahem 'war chest' .... There's only one Tony Pulis .....

  59. Stevo433

    Jul 20, 2014, 23:13 #54080

    Not sure why you think Liverpool are in the Ropey Cup as the finished runners up Jeff.

  60. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 20, 2014, 22:51 #54079

    A Cornish Gooner- A year ago both The Swiss Ramble and The Arsenal Supporters Trust quoted researched estimates of £70-100m so they certainly weren't media inventions. I'm sure Westlower doesn't believe a word of it, though.

  61. David

    Jul 20, 2014, 22:19 #54078

    Found it difficult to get past the words "internationally acclaimed as one of the greatest managers in the history of the game". Tell you what, Colin, something in the region of 60 different mangers have won the European Cup/CL since 1955, and AW isn't one of them. He's clearly a good manager, but your loyalty has blinded you.

  62. A Cornish Gooner

    Jul 20, 2014, 22:17 #54077

    Thanks for the reply Westie. I appreciate none of us are privy to what's going on behind the scenes, but you mentioned that we have 'a considerable transfer war chest'. I included Amos because he suggested that £70/100m figures were possibly media generated/invented, but didn't actually give his own idea of a possible amount.

  63. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 20, 2014, 22:15 #54076

    Westlower, reading your depressing post it hardly seems worth trying, does it? We were told that FFP would save us but seemingly that's still a long way off if it ever happens at all. Makes you think that maybe we should have bought a top drawer striker last Summer when we had the chance in advance of a season when our main rivals were all in transition with new managers. Definitely no blame attached to Arsene though, that's for sure, he's a very nice man and it feels nice and cosy to still have him around.

  64. Westlower

    Jul 20, 2014, 21:31 #54075

    @CG, As we're not privy to what's going on behind the scenes we can only wait & see. I suspect we haven't seen the last of comings & goings but it's hard to discern which transfer rumours are true or false. Not going for Remy at £8m may mean we've someone else in the pipeline or simply his wage demand were deemed greater than his ability. Balancing the wages bill is a far greater problem than spending money on transfer fees. Sit tight for the roller coaster ride during the next 41 days.

  65. BADARSE

    Jul 20, 2014, 21:20 #54074

    Now don't disappoint Bard, your new found reputation is on the line. My questioning was to prompt other comments. As stated if Vermaelen leaves will AW consider Miquel stepping up as job done there? I am also restating the obvious that a DM is required, but once more will a home grown promotion, as in Coquelin count as a completed exercise. I wasn't placing any credence on statements, I am too long in the tooth for most seductions, unless occasionally caught off guard. My tacit point is offering the question what does anyone seriously expect to happen, as opposed to what they would like to happen?

  66. Bard

    Jul 20, 2014, 21:02 #54073

    Badarse; for someone who presents themselves as worldy the idea that we are to believe anything that Wenger says about transfers and the squad strikes me as naive in the extreme. He talks rubbish most of the time although with a nice french accent. If Pullis or any of the other English managers came out with the same platitudes that Wenger comes out with they would be slated. Lets wait and see who comes in and who goes out. After all this is the man who didn't buy a striker in last summers window and when we were leading the table at Christmas bought Kallstrom who was unable to play for 3 months. I would suggest that is not a manager at the top of his game. We need a lot more than Sanchez to compete next season.

  67. A Cornish Gooner

    Jul 20, 2014, 20:54 #54072

    Westie, Amos. As a matter of interest only, what sort of sum do you think we have in our transfer war chest, and what sort of amount can we realistically expect Arsenal to spend on players?

  68. BADARSE

    Jul 20, 2014, 20:42 #54071

    Spoken with such clarity 24601. If we begin strongly this season, and I have every reason to believe we shall, having become 'winners', it could set us up psychologically-our three world cup winners will spread their magic too, adding to a strong mind set. Of course it may not happen, but we shall see. I genuinely think Liverpool will fade fairly quickly. If this scenario begins to play out we could have a quartet occupying the top four from the starter's pistol. It generally becomes a closed shop-to do so from the 'off' would be unusual to say the least.

  69. Westlower

    Jul 20, 2014, 20:16 #54070

    @Cult of Wenger, I DO expect us to be serious contenders this season. Never in the history of English football have we faced such powerful adversaries as both Manchester clubs & Chelsea. They have already laid solid financial foundations to compensate for any trivial punishments that may occur for abusing FFP. Just a reminder that City overspent £169m last year. Even though we have a considerable transfer war chest & new sponsorship deals we have nowhere near the financial clout of the big 3. It says much for the strength of next seasons PL that ourselves, Man U & Liverpool may only be playing for 3rd spot. By definition, the 'other big clubs' Sours & Everton are playing for 6th & 7th. Whoever wins the ultra competitive PL this season will truly have earned the right to be called champions & I sincerely hope it's AFC!

  70. BADARSE

    Jul 20, 2014, 20:12 #54069

    So with the purchase of Sanchez does it mean our pursuit of a forward has ended? AW says on the club website that should Vermaelen leave he will bring in a replacement CH. So will that be Miquel? We all assume a defensive CM is on the radar, but what of Coquelin? Am I on the right track?

  71. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 20, 2014, 18:04 #54068

    Westlower, 'best performance in our history' to win the league this season?? With our big new sponsorship deal added to the nice little warchest we've built up and FFP apparently biting at other contenders, if not now then when exactly would you expect us to be serious contenders for the title? Sounds like having run out of financial excuses your doubts about your man's coaching ability is coming to the fore and you're preparing the ground for even more failure.

  72. Westlower

    Jul 20, 2014, 17:43 #54067

    @Jeff Yes, you are right in saying 5 clubs have won the PL. I was quoting the last 10 years with only 3 clubs winning the PL in that time. As we know Jack Walkers millions bought Blackburn a day in the sun in 94/95. Historically, Atletico are almost on a par with AFC winning 9 titles & are arguably the third biggest club in Spain.

  73. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 20, 2014, 17:37 #54066

    I stumbled across an episode of Father Ted last night and it's very appropriate indeed for this article and not just it's author but for a lot of others also. It has Bishop Brennan having all the apprentice priests (no pun intended)in this case Dougal to write a letter as to why they think their/his mentor Ted is so good. Dougal starts with a silly grin looking into space with, i think Ted is great he is a great priest i think he is the best priest in the world i really do, there is no other priest like him, all the other priests think he's great too apart from Dick Burn he laughs at him, i love Ted and would never want to serve under any other priest as long as i live he says great mass and never makes a mistake, he then asks father jack what he thinks and is told to feck off you gob shyte and gets an empty bottle of Jacobs creek chardonnay smashed over his head, Colin sorry Dougal never flinches and remains in dream land and awe.

  74. jjetplane

    Jul 20, 2014, 17:30 #54065

    The only way is Margate. Ask Westie. He probably did write it on a betting slip pad. Cue tears and much laughter from someone in throes of the first of many seasonal seizures. Last of the Summer Spin and all that.

  75. jeff wright

    Jul 20, 2014, 17:15 #54064

    Westie your maths are on a par with Mike/Carol's ! United ; Blackburn; Arsenal ;Chelsea;City using the fingers on one hand I make that 5 clubs that have won the Prem .With Suarez playing from the start Liverpool might have won it last season also. I agree with you though that they will struggle to repeat their challenge this season ,also they are in the dreaded Ropey Cup! United are not in Europe so they have things a bit easier plus not being saddled with the bugeyed jock must be worth 2 stone in the handicap. MG, Margate probably wrote the article sitting on the bog in Dreamland .

  76. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 20, 2014, 16:43 #54063

    jw, and he was probably sitting on the hobby horses/carousel or maybe the ghost train, or maybe the Big Dipper would be more appropriate.

  77. BADARSE

    Jul 20, 2014, 16:29 #54062

    Hi Tinman, ha ha, not often I find myself giving an impassioned answer as I wipe tears of laughter from my eyes.

  78. Westlower

    Jul 20, 2014, 16:23 #54061

    @Jeff, Well done to Atletico Madrid's achievements last season but it's not the norm & is the only time in the past 10 years that neither Barca or RM haven't won the title. In the same time frame only 3 clubs have won the PL title. The PL has never been won by an 'outsider' and I suspect never will. Since 97/98 only Liverpool & AFC have managed to break into the top 2, outside of Chelsea & both Manchester clubs. I almost feel sorry for supporters of our neighbours as they'll never win the PL, 54 years and counting, even after a summer £106m spend and changing managers every time the wind changes. Should AFC be Champions in 2014/15 it will represent the best performance in our history considering how strong the opposition is.

  79. A Cornish Gooner

    Jul 20, 2014, 16:19 #54060

    Calm down BADARSE. I was only kidding re. the endangered species comment. I heard Chris Packham say much the same about pandas the other day.

  80. BADARSE

    Jul 20, 2014, 15:28 #54059

    No indiscriminate support from this mouthy one, majority or minority. UKIP are a minority and I would extinguish thir light given half a chance TB's Hols in Cornwall. Uniqueness and variety is important but I would rescue two creatures and sacrifice a panda in doing so, and jeff wright is not nearly as lovable as a panda. Please continue gentlemen, you have had me crying with laughter, well done for being so sensible 24601 as I fall about laughing at the other posts.

  81. jeff wright

    Jul 20, 2014, 15:18 #54058

    Carol,you are now desperately using days to measure the time periods between the 2 trophies won instead of the calendar year that you started with . Football seasons cover two periods of calendar years the cup starts in one and ends in the other , now if Wenger had retained the cup at the end of the 2005- 2006 season there would not have been a time gap between the two trophies. If however he had won the cup again at the end of the 2006-7 season then there would have been a 24 month gap and that would have been 2 years since he last won the cup . As it happens it turned out to be 9 and all of your nonsense will not change this.Yawn.

  82. Carol Vorderman

    Jul 20, 2014, 14:40 #54057

    Everyone has to wait until the year following the start of a season before they are able to win a trophy Mr. Wright. In your example the time between the two trophies is only 8 years and 361 days. 9 years had not passed on this earth as it had not been reached. Measured in seasons the time between the two seasons is just 8 seasons.

  83. Westlower

    Jul 20, 2014, 14:26 #54056

    'Jeff, Of course other factors kick in, in our case it was multiple injuries at an important part of the season, Theo, Ox, JW, etc. Who would have thought Liverpool would be one game off winning the PL. Circumstances worked in their favour and IMO they will struggle to match last seasons performance. If Liverpool had knocked us out of the FA Cup who's to say we wouldn't have had a better period in March. Our 10 men were were thrashed at Putin's Chelsea after consecutive away games at the Lane & Munich. One win, one draw & only one defeat from those 3 pivotal games. Could we realistically get results at the Lane, Munich & the Bridge in consecutive away games? I can't think of a team capable of achieving that, but how you wob's love to kick AFC in unfavourable circumstances. The 2-8 at OT was another example of when we were set up for a thrashing, turning up with 8 players out after a grueling game in high temperatures in Italy 3 days prior to OT. We all hope we'll be champions come the end of next season but the strength of the opposition suggests it will be unlikely. Combined odds of 1/2 the top 2 in the betting suggests we're playing for 3rd at best. WOB's demand (school playground logic), AKB's are more realistic. Let's enjoy the moments when we top the league instead of putting the boot in if we don't sustain our challenge. Please try and appreciate how tough it is to win the PL. The bookies know!

  84. jeff wright

    Jul 20, 2014, 14:23 #54055

    No Carol, we are talking about the time between the two trophies being won, and that time is 9 years and not 8 . The last FAC was won at the end of the 9th season ,not at the start of it.So 9 years had passed on Earth before Arsene ended his losing run.It's not exactly Einstein's theory of relativity to work that out.

  85. Arsene in Margate

    Jul 20, 2014, 14:18 #54054

    Colin - you have so many scrapbooks but they are all pictures of me. Arsene looking worried now and says: I think I would like to play on the beach now. Your mum has made sandwiches for us and I have the BFG to carry our water. Who is Arteta talking to in there? Do you smoke Colin?

  86. Carol Vorderman

    Jul 20, 2014, 13:57 #54053

    There are not nine trophyless seasons between season 2004-2005 and season 2013-2014 Mr. Wright. Let us count together now shall we? The first year without a trophy is 2005/2006 - that's ONE! - 2006/2007 = TWO! - 2007/2008 = THREE! - 2008/2009 = FOUR! - 2009/2010 = FIVE! - 2010/2011 - SIX! - 2011/2012 = SEVEN! - and the last season without a trophy was 2012/2013 = EIGHT!. It may help you to count if you take your thumb out of your mouth first. Practice makes perfect.

  87. Trevor Brooking on holiday in Cornwall

    Jul 20, 2014, 13:56 #54052

    Re. Fermat's Last-but-one Theorem. Was it eight, was it nine? I'm sitting on the fence. I think both sides are right. Yes we went eight seasons without winning anything, but form 21st May 2005 to 17th May 2014 is (nearly) nine years. There is a website 'sincearsenallastwonatrophy' that shows years/months/days/hours/minutes between trophy wins, that we can all refer to in future. I prefer to think we only went two and a bit quadrennia between trophies. BADARSE. Why aren't you supporting the underdog/minority group/endangered species in this debate?

  88. jeff wright

    Jul 20, 2014, 13:48 #54051

    Westie, Athletico turned over the odds in la liga against richer and stronger opponents and also reached the CL final , and you don't need to come from Mars to realize that Wenger had a chance of winning the Prem in this country last season, albeit at odds of at best 2-1 against at one time and that was with a 7 point lead! As it happens old chap I can recall you saying on here that he WOULD WIN THE LEAGUE. You even suggested chucking in the towel in the FAC to help Arsene to do it. Fortunately those of us like myself and Ron and other sane forum posters were proven right in suggesting that Arsene had a better chance of ending 9 years without a pot by taking the FAC seriously. And he did do so judging by the relief he showed when winning it! There was no , it's not worthy of a parade this time, as was the case back 9 years ago when he last won it. No sir it was double open top bus job with him doing more grinning than Tony Blair does when he checks his bank statements . As it happens I myself never, along with others ,ever thought that Wenger would win the Prem last season - or his holy grail the European Cup either. It's not all about money and players ,other factors also kick-in . I know that he doesent have the tactical nous to do these feats and that his coaching ,fitness regime and his tactics are badly flawed - and that is nothing to do with bookies odds . Although those cunning little chaps by offering 2-1 and better when Wenger had a 7 point lead before Xmas suspected that his title tilt was just a mirage that would disappear like an oasis in the desert does before the eyes of men dying from thirst. They were proven right.

  89. Major Tom

    Jul 20, 2014, 13:38 #54050

    ... nine years, my brain hurts a lot/nine years, that's all we've got. (Laughing out Loud Records).

  90. jeff wright

    Jul 20, 2014, 13:20 #54049

    Carol,there is a 9 year period between the 2004 -2005 season FAC win(it says 2004-5 season in the official FA records of our win over United in Cardiff) and the 2013 - 2014 season one over Hull at Wembley. I suggest again that you try using your fingers to count this out with ,so , 2005-06 ONE YEAR ...2006-07 TWO YEARS , now come on Carol it's not that difficult,when you get to nine fingers you will find that it's May 20014, honest !

  91. Carol Vorderman

    Jul 20, 2014, 13:05 #54048

    It is not possible to win any of the 2005-2006 season trophies in 2005 Mr. Wright. It is only possible to win them in 2006. Using your fingers is a good idea. Starting with your left hand use the thumb as the first year 2006 then move each finger until you get to 2013. You will find you have just had to use just seven fingers and one thumb. Practice makes perfect.

  92. Westlower

    Jul 20, 2014, 12:59 #54047

    @Jeff, If you had just landed from Mars and remained awake for longer enough to choose from the top 5 contenders who would be crowned champions in 2014/15. I say top 5 because realistically no other team has a reasonable chance of winning the title. Simple maths dictate that if you're picking one team from a list of 5 without any prior knowledge of football, you would have a 20% chance of picking the right team. Obviously with an 80% failure rate it's unlikely your pick will be correct. Enter the bookies trading rooms where the 'football experts' ply their trade and project realistic odds above and below the 20% threshold. Chelsea are 15/8 (34.8%); Man City 9/4 (30.7%); Man U 11/2 (15.4%); AFC 6/1 (14.3%); Liverpool 10/1 (9%); Sours 66/1 (1.5%); Everton 150/1 (0.66%); the rest 1000/1 (0.1%). With the mathematical odds of 4/1 being set at choosing correctly from 5 picks, the 'value' bets are those teams whose odds are greater than 4/1. A sporting bet would be to couple Man U, AFC & Liverpool at combined odds of 13/8. Even backing these 3 giants of English football you still have a failure rate of 61.3%. Chelsea & Man City collectively represent 65.5% (odds of 1/2)of the book, which combined means they only have a 34.5% chance of failing, which equals the chances 34.5% of all the other teams in the PL being champions. This suggests Chelsea & Man City's combined odds of 1/2 should realistically be evens. This is where the bookies make their profit, keeping 34.5% for themselves. It should tell an educated Martian visitor that any other team winning the PL outside of the top two in the betting is unlikely. WOB's who demand AW's head because he doesn't win the PL are living in cloud cuckoo land.

  93. jeff wright

    Jul 20, 2014, 12:57 #54046

    Carol ,the football season begins in August and ends in May, so 2005 to 2006 is the first season not 2006-7 as you claim. Try using your fingers, one ..two...three... and so forth... Afters.. I wrong sob ...sob... at least some of us admit to being so at times...shame about Arsene he thinks that he is never wrong ! It's always someone else . A song for you Afters and Carol aka Mike /Charlie and a cast of dozens plus Badarse and Westie ... Send In The Clowns ... you couldn't make it up.

  94. Jeff Wright's Playlist

    Jul 20, 2014, 12:53 #54045

    "I Count The Tears" "Losing A Whole Year" "Friends In Low Places" "I'm Only Happy When It's Rainin'" "You Can't Always Get What You Want" "All You Ever Do Is Bring Me Down" "Waitin' For The Sky To Fall" "Get Off My Cloud". If you count them there are eight tracks. If Jeff counts them it will be nine.

  95. BADARSE

    Jul 20, 2014, 12:36 #54044

    These are laugh out loud moments gentlemen, thank so much jeff wright. 'Spinning around.', jj: 'You only live twice.', Double/Double/Double: 'From Me To You.', jj & jeff wright: 'Ruby Tuesday.', by the Tueday Night Curry Club: 'Baker Street.', Sherlock Holmes: 'Man on the moon.', Spaced: 'Just Seventeen.', Alexis Sanchez: 'Fool on the hill.', Jack: 'Startin' Over.', Arsenal versus Crystal Palace: 'Heroes.', The Invincibles: 'Another Girl.', Olivier Giroud: 'Here, There, and Everywhere.', AFC merchandise: 'Better Days.' DWT: 'Starman.', Ozzie: 'Follow Me.', Arsenal Football Club:

  96. Concerti Grossi

    Jul 20, 2014, 12:36 #54043

    We're all having fun, sitting in the sun, hugging and a' kissin with fred... laugh you sad lot.

  97. jeff wright

    Jul 20, 2014, 12:36 #54042

    Westie, my point was that Wenger failed to live up to his claim in December that he would win the Prem, he asked, do people think that I don't know a title winning side when I have one ? This in response to claims that he needed to buy players in January to have a chance of finishing first. He was expected to get at least 4th from the position that we were then in. City spent least time at the top of the table - but they finished top - and that is what counts. Circumstances can sometimes determine who is top of the league at certain times, a kindly run of fixtures for example, as we had early doors last season, can play a part in this. United look to have such a run this time around ,surprise surprise ! Let's see if we do better than them with our tougher run of games in that early period as we did last term .It should be pointed out though that overall we did no better in our run up to Xmas during that run of games than we did in the previous season . Other sides though,particularly United, did worse, but it all leveled out in the end and Arsene ,as usual, was out of the title race weeks before the race was done. We finished off playing Everton for 4th spot and not first place even though they caned us at Goodison during that little dog-fight for the scraps.

  98. Arsene

    Jul 20, 2014, 12:35 #54041

    You will have to speak to WESTLOWER about that. I did not see it.

  99. Paul Pudd

    Jul 20, 2014, 12:28 #54040

    Jeff "Germany will win nothing" Wrong: "Heaven knows I'm miserable now".

  100. Carol Vorderman

    Jul 20, 2014, 12:25 #54039

    Practising arithmetic can be boring Mr. Wright but even with learning difficulties I am sure we will be able to get you to count up to 10. Shall we try one last time? Practice makes perfect you know. Now after me: In the sequence between 2005 and 2014 the first year without a trophy is 2006 - that's ONE! - 2007 = TWO! - 2008 = THREE! - 2009 = FOUR! - 2010 = FIVE! - 2011 - SIX! - 2012 = SEVEN! - and the last year without a trophy was 2013 = EIGHT!.

  101. jeff wright

    Jul 20, 2014, 12:15 #54038

    Carol all I can add regarding your dodgy arithmetic is ,yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn...ssssssssssssssssssssssnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn ... 9 years... 10 years ... 16 years ... how many more without a Euro trophy for Arsene ...? I suppose that he might as well make it 20 ... then you could always claim that it was only 19 if you miss the last season out ! In for a penny and all that non ...

  102. Carol Vorderman

    Jul 20, 2014, 11:44 #54037

    Jeff wright you have got that wrong. Let us list the years in sequence for you so that you can count along with us: In the sequence between 2005 and 2014 the first year without a trophy is 2006 - that's ONE! - 2007 = TWO! - 2008 = THREE! - 2009 = FOUR! - 2010 = FIVE! - 2011 - SIX! - 2012 = SEVEN! - and the last year without a trophy was 2013 = EIGHT!. So EIGHT years without a trophy not NINE. This nonsensical attempt to try and change the 8 years without a trophy to 9 by the AMG shows how desperate they have become in their denunciation of Arsene.

  103. Westlower

    Jul 20, 2014, 11:42 #54036

    @Jeff Why wouldn't AW claim he could win the PL when on top at the halfway stage? Having played every team once and being top is a precursor to being champions. Being only 7 points of being double winners suggests Wenger wasn't too far out in his prediction. AFC only lost one game more than the 3 clubs above us. It's critics who demand we win the PL that need a reality check. I'll translate the odds to percentages to illustrate my point. The bookies reckon favourites Chelsea have a 34.8% chance of being champions. Obviously the inverse of that is they have a 65.2% chance of NOT being champions. For all their Putin'S money and 'genius' coach, they still have a far bigger chance of not winning the PL. Man City have a 69.3% chance of NOT winning the PL. Man U, biggest club in the world, best manager, £200m spending budget have a 84.6% chance of NOT winning the PL. Liverpool have a 91% chance of NOT winning the PL. Sours 98.5% (sorry for the reality check FJ). Everton 99.33%, the rest 99.9% chance or in a nutshell, no chance. AFC have a 85.7% chance of not winning the PL. The numbers tell us that the top league has never been harder to win. AFC made a good fist of it last season being on top longer than any other club so AW was right to declare us as real contenders.

  104. jjetplane

    Jul 20, 2014, 11:37 #54035

    JW they are a desperate lot with their little song titles. Reminds of that amazing film Downfall with Adolf in the bunker. Try as they might to spin (Tony Blair Syndrome) their crumbling world view 'something' (their own selves) keeps coming back, nipping away at the fragile structure. I reckon 8/9 years is really more like a quarter of a century and may be even longer to sort out the mess and make Arsenal the club it truly wants to be. Borehamwood/Barnet - who cares when you are in a tired little spin.

  105. Ozzie

    Jul 20, 2014, 11:29 #54034

    Nowhere man - Adebayor. Money money money - Ashley Cole. You don't have to say you love me - Bendtner. Back in the USSR - Arshavin. I've been everywhere man - Hleb. Lunatic on the grass - Anelka. Spanish Flea - Fabregas. Cathy's Clown - Nasri. Please help me I'm falling - Diaby.

  106. jeff wright

    Jul 20, 2014, 11:21 #54033

    This nonsensical attempt to try and change the 9 years without a trophy to 8 by the AKB shows how desperate they have become in their protection of Arsene. It's not even as though 8 years would some how make it better ! Okay then how years has Wenger gone so far in the Europe without winning a trophy ? He still has that shameful monkey on his back and the FAC win only papers over the cracks in his 9 years of past poor domestic results in the Prem and cups. However, the old codger looks as happy as Larry at the moment compared with the fraught pale faced grim stressed out man that he looked when Hull were 2-0 up in the cup final .A good fightback though to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, but he won't get away with giving better sides a 2 goal start, so fingers crossed that he will finally have learned his lesson. I won't be holding my breath on that unlikely scenario occurring though .

  107. BADARSE

    Jul 20, 2014, 11:07 #54032

    'Paint it Black.', WOBs: 'Dancing on the ceiling.', Rocky RIP: 'I will always love you.', InWengerWeTrust: 'Count On Me.', jeff wright:

  108. jeff wright

    Jul 20, 2014, 10:58 #54031

    er Carol,it's 2005-6 season to 2014 and that is 9 years not 8, now go and sit on the naughty stairs and repeat 200 times I must not tell lies.

  109. BADARSE

    Jul 20, 2014, 10:14 #54030

    'Everybody's talkin' at me.', jeff wright: 'Somewhere over the rainbow.' Daniel Levy: 'Money, money, money.', Sami Khedira: 'Beautiful Day.', 26th of May 1989: 'Where did I go wrong?', Alsace: 'Eleonar Rigby.', Leonard Rossiter: 'Number 9 Dream.', Theo: 'All Things Must Pass.', Mesut Ozil:

  110. Carol Vorderman

    Jul 20, 2014, 10:02 #54029

    I can confirm that between the years 2005 and 2014 there were only eight other years. The methodology applied is to list the years 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 & 2013 and then count them.

  111. jeff wright

    Jul 20, 2014, 9:43 #54028

    Spike, the rather profusely loquacious (yawn) frustrated DJ Badarse, could not resist explaining ( albeit trying desperately to make it ambiguous) that a 9 year gap between Arsene not winning a trophy was ended in May when Arsene ended his longest ever, for an Arsenal manager, losing run . He had claimed that he would win the Prem back in December, but this turned out to be just another of his illusions and in the end a FAC win over Hull City had to suffice.The run was nine years without a trophy up until then, and not 8 years.The good news is that he will not have to wait another 9 years . Whatever number of years are between a beginning and the end of something then that is the time that existed between the beginning and the end of it . You don't have two birthdays in one year. A song for Badarse 'You Talk Too Much'. For Westie 'Dreaming' and for you Spike 'Multiplication'.

  112. Chris

    Jul 20, 2014, 8:45 #54027

    Why does 'Website editor' (Kevin I guess) feel the need to qualify the publishing of this article when equally extreme articles from the opposite end of the spectrum are regularly published without comment? Just because the malcontents are bound to be more vociferous, in general, than others doesn't mean their views carry more weight or that they represent a majority... This appears to be an example of semi-covert editorial bias.

  113. BADARSE

    Jul 20, 2014, 8:38 #54026

    'Those were the days.', 1971 Double winning team: 'Wake me up before you go go (yawn).', jeff wright: 'Walk like a man.', WOBs: 'The Diving Board.', Arjen Robben: 'Yellow Submarine.', radfordkennedy: 'Born to run.', Robin van Persie: 'Time is on my side.', The Eight Trophyless Years: 'Where have all the flowers gone?' maguiresbridge: 'With or without you.' Abou Diaby: 'Man in Love.' westlower: 'Man Overboard.' WENGER OUT:

  114. BADARSE

    Jul 20, 2014, 8:18 #54025

    Ha ha, yeah, I meant that...Boreham Wood. Thank you my captain, (in min's voice). Laugh out loud song titles 24601. So, so funny! (julesd one, really nice sentiments), I must work harder buddy, but you keep raising the bar. On a sensible note, Abou Diaby played half a game-without breaking down. I so hope for us all he is turning the corner and that it isn't another roundabout.

  115. Westlower

    Jul 20, 2014, 7:56 #54024

    @Badarse, Boreham Wood 0 AFC 2. Ball of confusion - Badarse, Spike & JW; I heard it on the grapevine - transfer rumours; Bob Dylan song titles: Blowing in the wind - wob's; One of us must know - Ron, Bard, Amos & Jeff; Subterranean homesick blues - R/K; It's all over now, baby blue - Maureen; I threw it all away - NB54; Jokerman - Podolski; Hurricane - Theo; Knockin' on heavens door - Badarse & westlower; You ain't going nowhere - AW. Like a rolling stone - Cesc. I want you - Sami Khedira. Boots of Spanish Leather - Santi. She belongs to me - julesd. "She's got everything she needs, she's an artist, she don't look back. She never stumbles, she's got nowhere to fall...." My favourite Dylan song.

  116. BADARSE

    Jul 20, 2014, 7:30 #54023

    Good morning Spike. I cannot be sure of what goes on in the head of jeff wright but I think I know where he is getting confused. The beginning and end of something is the measure. Sometimes that is convoluted for some people as there has to be a time lapse between winning something-a trophy- and the next. Winning in 2005 and the time lapse of 2014 are the dates acknowledged. A laziness occurs as the lesser figure is subtracted from the greater leaving the number nine. The media do this perhaps through laziness but also through a desire to make the statement larger or more extreme. If a club won something annually we naturally say every year, never needing to say how long between trophies. It will always be a year. That is pointless. Otherwise we would need to be winning continuously-every second, or even smaller timed periods. Now we are passing into quantum physics and you wouldn't want to meet jeff wright there. From 2005-2006 we were the cup holders and that is either not in the equation or at the other end of the period, 2013-2014 season, when we again won a trophy, that isn't. jeff wright cannot have it both ways. Unless everyone on every occasion qualifies their statements by saying 'It's been a year since **** retained their title.', then the general statement would stand, 'They retained their title.' Our trophy drought was certainly ended in the ninth year, but that was a winning year, therefore we had eight trophyless years. Barnet 0 Arsenal 2.

  117. Spike

    Jul 19, 2014, 23:18 #54022

    @jeffwrite. Maths is definitely not my strong point, but every time I look at it I get 8 years without. We won a trophy in 05 and in 14, so the years without is 06 to 13, which adds up to 8 every time I try it ( even when drunk, as now). Please enlighten me as to where the other trophy less year comes from so I can revise my opinion of the media and forget about it once and for all?

  118. Amos

    Jul 19, 2014, 22:04 #54021

    @matthewbazell. If you stopped reading after the first sentence which stated 'moronic calls to Wenger to go' which article was it you were reading?

  119. jeff wright

    Jul 19, 2014, 19:14 #54020

    MB, there is an amusement park in Margate called 'DREAMLAND' it looks as if the article was written there.

  120. jjetplane

    Jul 19, 2014, 17:40 #54019

    Cheers BALDASS You sound more American by the post .....

  121. Louis van Gaal

    Jul 19, 2014, 16:44 #54018

    For me, the challenge is always to come first, not fourth.

  122. BADARSE

    Jul 19, 2014, 16:15 #54017

    And to my dear friend Ozzie, both of these, 'What a Wonderful World.' and 'Everything is Beautiful.' though I prefer, 'Starry Starry Night.': Off to a BBQ to upset a few unsuspecting innocents.

  123. Matthew Bazell

    Jul 19, 2014, 16:13 #54016

    I stopped reading after the first sentence that stated 'moronic calls to Wenger to go' People who have wanted to see a change of manager have have every right and some justification for that point of view. I'm down the middle, but I'm sick of the Wenger Messiah complex that some people have of 'how dare anyone question our lord'

  124. BADARSE

    Jul 19, 2014, 15:56 #54015

    lee afc, I was thinking of 'Deutsche uber alles.' I would prefer, 'Welcome Home.' jeff wright: 'The Night has a Thousand Eyes.' by 500 night watchmen:

  125. A Cornish Gooner

    Jul 19, 2014, 15:56 #54014

    BADARSE. Now look what you've done. One pit-bull awake and barking. It surely won't be long before the second one responds.

  126. lee afc

    Jul 19, 2014, 15:49 #54013

    Thanks BADARSE....I can live with that...how about ''hey Mona'' for our friend Jeff??

  127. BADARSE

    Jul 19, 2014, 15:16 #54012

    Sorry 24601, I am plagiarising your work. 'Walking back to happiness.' Tony Evans: 'He aint heavy he's my brother.' The Singing Nun: 'Coming around again.' by the Grounhog day whingers. 'Bookends.' by westlower & BADARSE: 'Smile.' by DWT: 'Here comes the Sun.' Bard: 'Don't cry for me Argentina.' Brazilian national team: 'I'm only sleeping.' jeff wright: 'Piggies.' by Kevin Bacon: 'Walking on sunshine.' lee afc:

  128. Bard

    Jul 19, 2014, 14:54 #54011

    Terrific Westie, had a really good laugh.

  129. Amos

    Jul 19, 2014, 14:42 #54010

    @cultofwenger. The reference to goals scored in post 57158 was clearly just highlighting the irrelevance of your earlier Rioch information. In any event why would I seek to divert attention from a claim that you have agreed with? As for my 'book of facts' think of it as just me gently ribbing you for your earlier concern that such 'stats' might be inconvenient enough for you to want to consider them all as dubious. Enjoy your weekend to.

  130. BADARSE

    Jul 19, 2014, 14:25 #54009

    Hang on Kashky, I want some parity with maguiresbridge too. My Nan's family on my Mum's side were from Co. Clare. (My grandfather was a dentist by extraction-only kidding). My bro in law has married a Dublin girl, I wander the streets retracing Joice, J.P.Donleavy, Wilde and Bram Stoker, (he was a footballer of a good standard. So anyone would have detected a bit of blarney in my mouthy posts. Tinman Charlie trained last night with a new football team, won the 8oom run, then today did a reasonable time of 21m 25sec, OK for 5k and a tired lad. Do I take it you have impaired vision chum? You see more than most! Am sure you could too 24601. 'Runaway', CanadaGooner: 'Raindrops keep falling on my head', DWT: 'Homeward bound', radfordkennedy: 'The end of the world', Alsace: 'Silent night', MARCUS: 'Crying', WOBs:

  131. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 19, 2014, 14:15 #54008

    Westie, BADSRSE, good ones, it's good to see you have a sense of humor after all, but i'm not sliding away any time soon because there's still a lot of whining to be done and it's just around the corner.

  132. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 19, 2014, 14:02 #54007

    Amos, maybe you missed it but as I said, it was you who decided to bring goals scored into the debate (57158), presumably as you say to divert attention from a flagging claim! But my mention of said irrelevant information as well as my final comment were meant merely as a gentle ribbing re your debating style, and not meant to require you to dive into The Big Arsenal Book Of Facts with a calculator again! Have a lovely weekend.

  133. jjetplane

    Jul 19, 2014, 13:49 #54006

    MG I'm a cockney really with Parents from Mayo and Kerry so roving and diving into bogs is all the rage with me as long as it's a lido. WEsTie you still don't get it - it's you lot who are depressed and stuck in the mud while your meaningless leader shovels money offshore inbetween looking ancient on beaches (decorum you silly old boy). Really has got the dictator mantle now. While Arsenal becomes a failing state/team he sits there with medals adorning his puffa with a 'they bought smile' on his mug. Here's a record - Reality Asylum by Crass. (one for the believers) Well - off to another bloody match (friendly Sussex league) - 3.50 with a prog. Forgot to mention the railroaders of Guyana who I would get blotto'd with in The Silver Bullet. Now there was a pub. First pub me old man brought me into was the Blackstock. He was pleasantly unaware I had a hangover that day. Happy fishing boys.

  134. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 19, 2014, 13:21 #54005

    jj, didn't know that, welcome to the club.

  135. Amos

    Jul 19, 2014, 12:52 #54004

    @cultofwenger. For the sake of accuracy (though not relevance), and in the spirit of helpfulness I've tried to apply in checking these figures for you, GG only failed to score fewer goals than Wenger's worst season for goals scored in 5 seasons not 6 (ignoring 94-95) and bettered his worst tally in 3 seasons and not 2.

  136. Amos

    Jul 19, 2014, 12:41 #54003

    @cultofwenger. I'm not sure why any comparison of defensive seasons would include goals scored other than as a need to divert attention from a flagging claim. Comparing GG's tallies for goals scored with Wengers isn't going to be fruitful territory for you though. In all but two seasons of GG's tenure he failed to score as many as in Wenger's worst season - 6 seasons in fact (ignoring 94-95 as you suggest). GG's worst tally for goals scored was almost 50% less than Wenger's worst tally. None of which proves very much - except maybe the more you defend the less likely you are to score. But I think it does show that the claim Wenger is a lucky manager to have inherited GG's defence doesn't stand much scrutiny with it being at least as true that GG's defenders were lucky that Wenger took control of them at the time. Which was really the point at issue. I'm surprised you see this exchange in terms of winning and losing. All we're doing here is just that - exchanging opinions and sharing views. There's nothing to win or lose.

  137. Westlower

    Jul 19, 2014, 12:20 #54002

    Badarse - Losing my religion; Bard - I can see clearly now; AKB's - Shiny Happy People; WOB's - Ain't no sunshine; Arsenal team - Fields of Gold; Jeff - The sun ain't gonna shine anymore; Sami Khedira - Wherever I lay my hat; Billy Bender - Nowhere man. 'Picked her up on a Friday night, sha la la la la lee....'

  138. A Cornish Gooner

    Jul 19, 2014, 11:55 #54001

    Morning BADARSE. How did Charlie's parkrun go this morning? Forgot to mention earlier it's 'partially sighted/visually impaired Pew' these days.

  139. jeff wright,

    Jul 19, 2014, 11:50 #54000

    Spike, maths are obviously not your strong point.

  140. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 19, 2014, 11:26 #53999

    Amos, considering you mentioned goals scored in an earlier post and were also doing my checking for me, I'm surprised your reasonable comparison of best defensive seasons didn't include the fact that although Graham's team conceded just one more goal, they scored 15 more! And of course to reduce the broader comparison to 3 seasons would also be to discard Graham's best season. Genius! But this is clearly all just about the 98-99 season for you therefore I have to concede that after almost 2 years of the defence firstly not improving and then performing slightly worse, they uncontestably did, under Wenger, have one very good season. So you win!

  141. BADARSE

    Jul 19, 2014, 11:21 #53998

    Morning gentlefolk. Your suggestions are much better than mine, but it is the thought that counts. radfordkennedy, 'I am sailing.': Bard, 'I'm coming home.' DWT, '(I can't get no) satisfaction.': WENGER OUT, 'Don't bring me your heartache,': maguiresbridge, 'Slip slidin' away.': jj, 'Puff the magic dragon.': @Spike good point to push-8 not 9! Spike, 'Count on me.':

  142. Westlower

    Jul 19, 2014, 11:16 #53997

    @CG Ian Drury song titles. Ron - There ain't half been some clever bast**ds; Soldado - What a waste; To all Gooners - Reasons to be cheerful pt.3: JJ - Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll; Badarse & westie - Dance of the crackpots; Maguiresbridge - Hit me with your rhythm stick; Always fancied F**king Ada being played at my funeral, just to go out with a bang! Just imagine the vicar asking "what sort of cheese do you call that?"

  143. A Cornish Gooner

    Jul 19, 2014, 10:43 #53996

    Westlower. Thanks. Prefer Tin Soldier to Go West! Just watched Small Faces version on youtube. Saw Ian Dury in Poole many years ago. Maybe julesd title could be Wake Up. Just a thought.

  144. Spike

    Jul 19, 2014, 10:18 #53995

    Guys, can we please just get the 'years without a trophy' right oncve and for all? We wo the FA Cup in 2005, therefore no trophy in 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12 and 13 - which is 8 years. The papers never get anything right but the '9 years without' mantra has been repeated so many times, even loyal gooners are quoting it without thinking. It's only a small point but it sticks in my craw to see the lazy media get away with brainwashing like this. Even Moronio has used the one FA Cup in 9 years to slag us off, without realising it is 2 FA Cups in that period.

  145. Westlower

    Jul 19, 2014, 10:05 #53994

    More song titles: Amos - Don't let me be misunderstood; Jeff - Golden slumbers (yawn); Maguiresbridge - The long and whining road; Badarse - I've gotta get a message to you; Ron - My father's eyes; Tony Evans - Come together; Finsbury Joe - I'm a loser; Sanogo - Please mister postman; Arsene - What have I done to deserve this?; Jack W - Smoke gets in your eyes; JJ - Hard rains gonna fall; CG - Tin soldier; R/K - Homeward bound; julesd - Baby I need your loving. Westlower - Against all odds or F***ing Ada.

  146. BADARSE

    Jul 18, 2014, 22:45 #53993

    Evening Kashky. Song titles? 'I'm still waiting', by Godot; 'Mellow Yellow', by Vincent van Gogh: 'Leaving on a jjetplane', by Kashky: 'Long-haired Lover from Liverpool', by Ron Bald Eagle: 'Words', by BADARSE: '1-2-3', by westlower: 'A Whiter Shade of Pale', by jeff wright: 'Go West', by Tinman: any other offers?

  147. allybear

    Jul 18, 2014, 21:50 #53992

    Terrible article making OGL out to be some kind of saviour. LOL your dead right mate,how easily the hammerings and embarrassements are forgotten. One signing and the FAC doesnt excuse his failings in my opinion. I said earlier in the season that he is clueless tactically and he wont and cant change.

  148. jjetplane

    Jul 18, 2014, 19:44 #53991

    We can look at the posts here and safely conclude. Wenger is the new theatre of absurdity. On the subject of Ozil. I am most underwhelmed by the 'little turk' (neo-orientalist tag) which JW has carried with him. In an otherwise sparkling career as an honorary WOB that is one human stain (see Roth) best washed away. Still wonder if he will play a big part at Arsenal but never was there a time if we are to add to him and Sanchez, a good young coach and push 'the ghost of Brian Wilson/Serge Gainsbourg into some other role - perhaps in accounting. You know what I mean. When I lived in the Finsbury Park and adjoining neigbourhoods for many years I mixed with every influx of people that began with the Irish (one meself), west Indian, Algerians, Somalians, Afghans, the Kurds, Turks, Greeks and I think I knew a couple of English lads too. Been to Turkey many times and love the food, football, cinema, literature and many years ago the drink. So back to Ozil who has certainly put himself on the map with his WC runaround and well done to him. Can hardly say the same for the other two clowns from Wengerland who (very like Giroo) will hog the limelight irrespective of the lowly parts they play. Decorum is obviously something Wenger is not good at. Here's to the global football family! Long live Arsenal and it's many dreamers.

  149. Amos

    Jul 18, 2014, 19:11 #53990

    @cultofwenger. Whatever years you pick my point that Wenger with the same defenders produced a better goals conceded season than GG did stands incontestably correct. The comparison is also reasonable in that both seasons were ones in which they played the same number of league games. Depending on which other years you pick you can produce all sorts of other different scenarios but I don't think you can pretend that there is anything scientific about it. By the season 99-00 many of the key components of GG's defence were managing little more than half a season for Wenger so they were clearly past their best by then. Even so there's little difference (less than 3%) between the average number of goals conceded per game in GG's last 4 full seasons and Wenger's first 4 including 99-00 when their input was already waning. Of course if you shift the years to measure GG's last 3 full seasons and Wenger's first 3 then that number shifts significantly in favour of Wenger - and by a much wider margin (some 20%). He was clearly getting more out of them in his first 3 seasons than GG did in his last 3 full seasons (ignoring 94-95 as you suggest). Whether you base it on the one season or not the point still stands well enough to dismiss the notion that Wenger was just a 'lucky' manager.

  150. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 18, 2014, 17:58 #53989

    Ron, BADARSE, funny you should be talking of baldness and baldies i just put the shaver on to charge before coming back on here, to shave my head, coincidence or what.

  151. Ron

    Jul 18, 2014, 17:04 #53988

    Have a great week end guys, the hairy and the less hairy ones of you!

  152. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 18, 2014, 16:46 #53987

    Amos, which years do you base your assertion on? Because by my reasonable comparison of Wenger's first 4 full seasons (ie to the point that the bulk of George's defence stopped making a significant contribution in terms of appearances) to Graham's last 4 full seasons, Graham's team conceded fewer goals per game. Want to move the goalposts to include 96-97? No problem, George still wins. And if you want to disregard from 1999-2000 onwards as it was 'not quite the same defence', again that's fine but then you're basing your assertion on a single very good season. Looks less scientific, more sentimental to me.

  153. BADARSE

    Jul 18, 2014, 16:28 #53985

    Ron you are majestic in the 'shiny head' stakes, flicking that combover nonchalantly over your shoulder, you are now my Bald-eagle, well done Mr. Barnet. As John Lennon once said, 'I decided to shave-I thought it was time to get some fresh hair on my face.' You might use that sometime. Respect maguiresbridge.

  154. jeff wright

    Jul 18, 2014, 15:48 #53984

    Ron, at least Baddie was a bit flummoxed by the Baldarse jibes he probably had to check with PC HQ to see if it was politically incorrect!

  155. Amos

    Jul 18, 2014, 15:45 #53983

    @amg. Essentially most of the criticisms of the club are based on finances. Why haven't we spent more money on transfers? Would Manager X have used available resources better - or would he have failed to generate the level of resources we have and therefore made us less competitive? What was the impact of unrestricted spending by benefactor clubs on player retention or acquisition? To what extent were we restricted over the same period? All are questions rooted in finance. It's difficult to avoid the financial perspective in the modern game given the criticisms most often made. I'm a long standing supporter of the club and a fan of the team and squad of the day. Everything to do with the club including its history, tradition, values, management, ownership, supporters and even its finances all interest me greatly. If you want to understand the club beyond how many trophies it has won then you can't do better than to immerse yourself in all these aspects.

  156. A Cornish Gooner

    Jul 18, 2014, 15:15 #53982

    Finsbury Joe/Sour jibe f**ny. It must be hard at your place to remember acronyms for; Whoever Is Manager This Month Out Brigade and Whoever Is Manager This Month Knows Best.

  157. Ron

    Jul 18, 2014, 14:53 #53981

    Jeff - ignore that fool that branded you. Nobody else has. Its probably his one and only post and he's long since gone off looking to disingenuously manufacture racist vibes elsewhere long since. Some of them would find 'racism' in a jar of jam! On the other hand im astounded astonished and outraged at BADARSE seemingly tolerating 'baldism'. I'm off to see my MP about him as we speak. Outraged i say, outraged! Those left leaners always seem to have too much hair and love to belittle us more follicular challenged better looking types!

  158. jeff wright

    Jul 18, 2014, 14:32 #53980

    Personally I think that Ozil's Brazil children's charity donation of his 'bonus money' was nothing less than a cheap publicity stunt to try and curry favor with the Brazilian anti-world cup dissidents. He could have donated money without the publicity surrounding it ,but he obviously wanted that publicity and the kudos for having donated some money that he did not need anyway. I can't see how calling Ozil a little Turk is anymore racist than disparaging remarks about English players where the fact that they are 'English ' is part of the criticism, Ozil is a Turk and unfortunately many of the comments about an English/Brit ,drinking and yobbish behavior are true . When Ozil starts to live up to the hype and price tag that he came with then I will see some merit in Lee Arsene FC's obsession with him , as it stands at present Ozil is just the clubs record buy and that is what some are getting carried away with. His performances in an Arsenal shirt are nothing to write home about. As Ivan would say though,another day ;another dollar .And another chance next season for the little Turk to live up to his big price tag .

  159. Ron

    Jul 18, 2014, 14:16 #53979

    DW - The article is a bit of a send up you have to understand mate. Good though. Its a bit farcical and meant to be really.Its even possible that the poster could be a Wenger out man! I bet the OP has a good sense of humour though. He must have to live in Margate and admit it.

  160. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 18, 2014, 14:15 #53978

    BADARSE, not a problem, i'm not really sure who your referring to as you've mentioned no names, but i honestly don't remember anything, i do remember you took exception to the use of the word pansies that was being used to describe some of our players way back even though they're the wife's favorite flower. For the record i have never thought, took, or interpreted anything jw or anyone else for that matter (apart from the odd troll and it's quickly removed)posted on here as racist, and being a N,Irish man i've heard and had a lot. But as you say it's not a subject that should be open for debate on an Arsenal site but there's always one idiot who escapes from their village.

  161. AMG

    Jul 18, 2014, 14:13 #53977

    Amos - you're undoubtedly a very intelligent and well informed poster, but your arguments are too centred on finance. Are you a fan of football or a fan of finance? I agree with your point re polarisation of fans. I am obviously staunchly anti-Wenger, but I wouldn't class myself as typical in this regard.

  162. DW Thomas

    Jul 18, 2014, 14:03 #53976

    Number of trophies over the last 9 years? 1! Despite the money this club has to do better and Arsene's astonishing salary. The first half I'd this article is a joke. Almost,stopped reading after sentence one! Name calling from the get go does not make me want to read anything! Yet, the second half has some points worth thinking about. However, you are selective in your numbers games and forget or fail to mention all the failures and humiliations. Worst being the CL final loss and 2008 season end collapse. We should have won way more with this club these last 9 years. I see that clearly now. At least 2 league titles, one league cup. Quotes like "astute buying" just take the piss really. This season more than any other he must deliver something big! He is not mentioned as one of the best managers ever among my readings as he has done what? Internationally? Now, I will say he had an amazing run culminating in the Invincibles season, but he had Bergkamp and Henry. Two of the best ever to grace the PL. He bought and kept for long periods failures like Denilson, Almunia, Silvestre, et. al. when he needed just a few quality players to round out a,good team and make it great. But it never happened. No his legacy will be two fold. Great early success followed by 4th place failures. I do,get the consistency argument too. But, don't you need some real trophies to go with it? Otherwise it's just money for,the already super rich. A new stadium was built with the promise of competing with the best. Compare us to Chelsea, United, Barca, Madrid, and Bayern, the top 5 teams in football. Are we with them? No. Will we be? Maybe, in a few years. Big question is: Is Wenger now holding us back?

  163. Mouthy

    Jul 18, 2014, 14:02 #53975

    Day after day/Alone on the hill .....

  164. BADARSE

    Jul 18, 2014, 13:47 #53973

    @LJB the 'My Website' comment was used in relation to the poster being Ozil. It wasn't a narrow script of a poster trying to own the website, we know it belongs to the silverbacks, Ron, westlower and myself! @peter hughes, am not disagreeing with your POV, but will offer this. I went to see us beat Charlton 4-0, (Justin Hoyte scored his only goal for us that night), and I left the stadium with one observation I'd made spreading seeds of doubt in my mind. I'd seen Titi become mortal. He'd slowed noticeably. I have said before that my good fortune has allowed me to witness many fast players, and at close hand. I know a little about speed, legs run in our family! (vital to stay ahead of the 'tally' man). As a crude statement I have always said Henry was the fastest I ever saw with the ball at his feet. Others may have shaded him in a straight 100m race but none in my opinion were able to run at such speed with the ball a playable distance in front, either to go any way, left or right, or play it with either foot. Awesome ability, and I maintain as quite unique. That night he was pushing the ball just a little too far ahead, perhaps the emphasis I place on running helped me to spot that, or it may just be because I am brilliant, either way it troubled me. I left with my son, happy that a scoreline of 4-0 was registered but worried. I was a relieved man when Henry left-I didn't want him to grow old in an Arsenal shirt.

  165. BADARSE

    Jul 18, 2014, 13:22 #53972

    maguiresbridge I have levelled a racist concern before. I just wanted to correct you and am not inclined to engage on this subject anymore. The references to nationalities is something I personally dislike and would support anyone who felt aggrieved or slighted. If it is necessary for a sensible reason fine, 'Yes it was the Turkish man.' just as a valid description that 'It was the fat/bald/black,(or in my case 'mouthy'), person. Otherwise it is a little rude at best, at worst much more.

  166. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 18, 2014, 12:53 #53971

    mesut gooner ozil, if you'd have been a regular on here you'd know jw's views on ozil ie still having a lot to prove and has been calling him the little turk, (how does that make him or any one racist? and there are plenty on here who would have told him if they thought so, they didn't) was way way before this donation business came about, even way before the world cup, (and from what i heard he donated it to the children of brazil either way it's his business) So it's you who is on the wrong site, your go down the lane jibe tells us all we need to know, don't you know your village is looking for you.

  167. Amos

    Jul 18, 2014, 12:31 #53970

    @cultofwenger. No I wasn't including 94-95 in my analysis but the assertion that Wenger improved on GG's goals conceded record with the same defence still holds as completely true. It is also true that Wenger's worst record for goals conceded with not quite the same defence (by which time they were on their way out) isn't as bad as GG's worst record (though to do your checking for you GG's worst season was one which had 22 teams in the division). As you can see there's no need for a statistical trend to back up these stats - not that a genuine trend ever existed in the first place - as they are a matter of record. I'm not sure what relevance Rioch's goals conceded record has as Wenger matched that in his first season as well as improving goals scored with a more open style of football and finishing higher in the league. Factor in that Wenger didn't inherit players at their physical peak and the conclusion that he improved them as players is as compelling as any other view. Your original post was an attempt to make a point that Wenger was a 'lucky' manager rather than one with a particularly gifted skill set. Taken in the round I think it's clear that a great deal more than fortune has gone into what has been achieved over the last 18 years - and that for the longevity of the careers of GG's defenders they were probably lucky Wenger took control when he did.

  168. Ron

    Jul 18, 2014, 12:24 #53969

    Hi Westie - option 1 everytime! I would say that wdt i!! On your point about Eng not using that defence, its not that staggering really mate. Int footie was far higher quality back then than now as i see it. Most top clubs would take out these internat team with ease now, not then. Good as they were at league level they were a bit pedestrian in truth and the international footie climate of the day would maybe have found them out.Do you recall Greenwood fielding about 7 Liverpool players for a few games in the late 70s? Great Club side but didnt do much when in a white shirt. Different Coach, conditions, pressure and expectations all are factors no doubt that differed massively from everyday Club duties.

  169. Westlower

    Jul 18, 2014, 12:15 #53968

    AFC's best defence? Option 1; Wilson, Rice, McLintock, Simpson, McNab; Option 2; Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Winterburn, Option 3; Lehmann, Lauren, Toure, Campbell, Cole? Those of us at the Lane in 71 will probably prefer option 1. It beggars belief that England never fielded option 2 in its entirety. Option 3 - Invincibles of course!

  170. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 18, 2014, 11:44 #53967

    Amos, I assume in your analysis you're not including 94-95 when Graham was eventually sacked in February after his bung-taking had been exposed 5 months earlier, coinciding with his defence's worst ever season (funny that). What the figures show is that Wenger only once managed to better defensively either Graham's last full season or Rioch's season, so he clearly didn't improve what he inherited, which is the debate we have been having. And it's good that we agree to there being no statistical trend to back up your claim.

  171. Ron

    Jul 18, 2014, 11:23 #53966

    Gooner Ron - Hi. Quickly popping my head around the door here again. Great post of yours. Best ive seen for a while (apart from my own of course, which naturally glow in erudition, poignancy and intellectual stimuli, which my silver friends BADARSE and Westlower readily testify nearly everyday these days would you believe it - tin hat on firmly now mate!!!)Seriously, we can all have a go at each other from time to time but there are posts in this thread that go well beyond the pale.

  172. peter hughes

    Jul 18, 2014, 10:41 #53965

    Like a broken record I know but we have had financial restrictions paying for the stadium.Wenger knew this & could have jumped ship when his stock was high 8 years ago.Henry left because Wenger told him we would not be able to compete financialy & he only had a few years left at the top.Henry confirmed this on a talk show. We now have a skillful pacey forward & better younger RB. Financial restrictions off cant wait for the season to start

  173. Amos

    Jul 18, 2014, 10:30 #53964

    @peterwain. That we have won only one trophy in 9 seasons is itself just another statistic - and one, as you say, that doesn't begin to tell the whole story. Being blind to the truth could probably include your assumption that we failed to win a league title in that period simply because of what we did or didn't do in any transfer window. Experience elsewhere shows that is an assumption that cannot be made with any degree of conviction at all. 4th place isn't a trophy though it is CL qualification which is to be prized. But equally it's wrong to say that 'no other club in any league in the world would allow a manager so much time and so much failure'. The fact is that the majority of clubs in every league in world football would be very satisfied indeed with that as a consistent and minimum level of achievement. In contrast there're only relatively few clubs in the world in relatively few leagues that wouldn't be satisfied with that and those are clubs whose resources generally significantly exceed ours and can be expected to exceed that minimum level of attainment because of their financial strength. In most cases it hasn't mattered who has been Chelsea manager while Abramovich has bankrolled them for example nor if you're riding one of the two horses in what is (this season excepted) a two horse race in La Liga should it be a great surprise if one of those two horses usually wins. Similarly your frustration with the Khedira story should be directed to the media feeding the gullible as his agent has recently informed everyone that neither Arsenal or Chelsea have had any contact with him let alone agreed any deal with RM. I've no doubt that those opposing the management of the club will continue criticising as for the most part it's just criticism for criticism's sake. The fact is though that it's really just impotent whining as those with any power do not see that section of support having any significant influence on the fortunes of the club. @badarse. Thanks for the support my friend. I don't take the jibes and insults seriously. They only ever happen when those making them have no other argument to make and it's permitted, if not encouraged even, by those running this site. I can just smile smugly and imagine a Walcott style 2-0 gesture in response.

  174. BADARSE

    Jul 18, 2014, 9:49 #53963

    Amos any nasty jibes and insults I will share with you, as you speak for me and others of our ilk. So rushed today but I leave the club in your more than capable hands. This is another Spartacus moment and am sure many would stand alongside you. Just wanted to deflect some flak and show solidarity. We have Debuchy-tick that box!

  175. Ozzie

    Jul 18, 2014, 9:33 #53962

    Khedira c Abrahamovich b Pound ?

  176. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jul 18, 2014, 9:21 #53961

    I couldn't let this one pass........Mr Henry, are you going to put out another hip tweet, this time wondering what those chaps in Barcelona are smoking? No? Thought not. Looking ahead, it is nice to see some signings happening before 11.55 on transfer deadline day. Now we just need to do some rethinking in our physio/training section, because the injuries happening every season are unforgivable.

  177. Peter Wain

    Jul 18, 2014, 9:08 #53960

    using statistics blinds you to the truth. Before last season we had not won anything for 9 years and during that time we let slip at least two league titles due the dithering by the manager in the transfer windows. Yet again we see the same situation occuring with Khedira same as Mata same as so many players. Fourth place however admirable is not a trophy and no other club in any league in the world would allow a manager so much time and so much failure. So keep quoting statistics all you can those of us who think the club management should do better will continue critising.

  178. Amos

    Jul 18, 2014, 8:57 #53959

    @barrybender. A **** maybe quite good for all I know - but who do you think your post says most about? :-)

  179. Barry Bender

    Jul 18, 2014, 8:19 #53958

    @Amos. Ure a ****.

  180. Brd

    Jul 18, 2014, 7:58 #53957

    All these disagreements come done to the one issue expectation. What are our ambitions? i wrote a while ago that I would like to see us in the Athletico and Dortmund bracket. Many on this site viewed that as a serious downgrade the gist of their arguments were, we are better than that, we are a top club. If you are a top club then the expectation is that you win trophies, coming 4th isn't a an achievement if you view yourself as a top club. At present I pay serious money to watch Arsenal one of the highest prices to watch a PL club. I expect a lot for that money. My view is that we are a club competing in the second tier of football but paying the highest prices for that pleasure. Furthermore the club present themselves as top tier but achieve second tier results.Therein lies the rub.

  181. Amos

    Jul 18, 2014, 7:22 #53956

    @cultofgwenger. The fact that Wenger's goals conceded stats with GG's defence are better than GG's stats aren't a trend. Nothing curious at all about that. They may not prove anything at all in fact - other than the argument that Wenger's success can be attributed to inheriting GG's defence doesn't stand much scrutiny. You're right that stats are checkable but you haven't come up with any interpretation that presents those stats any differently. Similarly Henry, Pires and Vieira were recruits from a time when the French national side were more dominant. He wasn't recruiting top French players by the time the team had reached its peak and the French star was already waning by the time that peak had been reached. Linking Arsenal's relative lack of success to a decline in French fortunes, particularly when looking at what else was happening in the game, stands little scrutiny either. In short, despite these 'stats' being easily checkable as you claim all that you've shown is that your own claims and interpretation of key factors stands less examination than any stats I have presented.

  182. Edmund

    Jul 18, 2014, 6:43 #53955

    As I have previously mentioned, we fans don't know the truth on what goes on inside the club. Maybe Wenger had money to spend but did not do so. Maybe the money wasn't really there. Maybe Ozil was a panic buy and maybe not. What we do know is what we do see. Embarassing trashing by the other top clubs. Some beautiful football. One FA cup after 9 years. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Arsene Wenger, you have started to spend. Now win the league or Champions League. I'll support whatever team you put out. Show us who is right, those wanting you out or your AKBs.

  183. LJB

    Jul 18, 2014, 4:31 #53954

    Ozil did not donate money to Gaza,it was Brazil,and who are YOU to tell anyone to get off "your" website? Bet you don't know that Arsenal historically is as jewish as Tottenham do you?

  184. Finsbury Joe

    Jul 18, 2014, 0:54 #53953

    Amazing how the AKBs can delude themselves, they are a bit like the man they worship. All true Gooners know the wenger of today fails the club, the players, the fans and ultimately himself. See he has signed another French guy who cannot defend. Nothing ever changes in wengerworld

  185. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 18, 2014, 0:23 #53952

    Amos, so you state that Wenger 'actually improved' Graham's defence, you quote me two stats to emphasise the point yet now YOU'RE telling ME that there was no trend!! Curiouser and curiouser. And of course you understood perfectly well that I was looking at THE trend (ie whether there was one) and not A (an actual) trend, but I'm afraid your craftiness is only equalled by your transparency. Re you putting words in my mouth, well it's there for all to see so I'll say no more on that one. And to say dependence on French players had ended by the peak years is another bizarre statement considering the monumental roles that Henry, Pires and Vieira played in The Invicibles, as well as various bit-part French players. By all means carry on hiding behind the fact that most on here don't have the time or inclination to check the stats you post, but I've just shown today that when the stats are easily checkable, your interpretation of them can come up rather short.

  186. John F

    Jul 17, 2014, 23:57 #53951

    My best scenario would be Wenger to remain as Manager but to take a step back from coaching.He is a big draw for players to join AFC and has discovered great players but his lack of tactics is worrying.Fergies success was down to his coaching staff and letting them get on with their jobs and the fact he refreshed them every few years.Wenger said in the lead up to the final that he took full control of the coaching which led me to believe the same mistakes we saw against the top teams would happen again.Another telling comment was by Lee Dixon when Wenger got the water bottles out pre extra time he said "Ive have never seen talk tactics before"Did he mean on the pitch or ever.The fantastic football we played in his early reign has been worked out by other top managers and I do not think they send spies to our training camp to work out how we are going to play.Mind you i did see a man with a long trench coat on at the LC once but i think he was only wearing his socks underneath.

  187. BADARSE

    Jul 17, 2014, 23:20 #53950

    How amusing Gooner89, you criticise the writer for daring to 'insult' those of your ilk, then proceed to lace your post with insults suggesting that anyone with opposing views to you, ie those who would support the current manager, are a biscuit short of a barrel. The key to this is that the facts presented have different conclusions drawn by individuals. The 'lumping' together of supporters, as a polarised section is misrepresentative of specific views, attitudes and approaches to most things, not least the manager of a football club. I happen to think the Mayor of London is a buffoon, the other day a group of people had an alternative view. Right? Wrong? You decide, but whatever your decision someone will oppose it, be sure on that score. It's OK to disagree, the custard pie throwing act is just plain silly. Welcome back GoonerRon, the next bun fight is scheduled for 9am.

  188. Two up front for every match, Wenger

    Jul 17, 2014, 23:07 #53949

    Why is it whenever someone complains about Wenger post-2005 they get told to support Tottenham? It's childish & irratating. Was this piece typed by messers I Gazidis & A Wenger?

  189. GoonerRon

    Jul 17, 2014, 22:54 #53948

    So I take a bit of a break from The Gooner and the comments on the first article I read on my return could have been copied and pasted from 100 articles last season! I was hoping this tit-for-tat-I-was-right-you-were-wrong dichotomy might have eased off in the trophy-laden sunshine. Seemingly not. Perhaps now is the time for us to converge and begin to support the team and club as one? I acknowledge there will always be difference of opinion and that's great as it fuels many a (healthy) debate, but the cold hard facts are Wenger is here to stay and if the timeliness and quality of our summer business thus far is anything to go by, the club has turned a corner. I don't want to airbrush the last 9 years away as there were serious issues in there, but I also don't want to be so bitter about that period that I won't allow myself to enjoy a trophy winning season or a hugely exciting player coming to the club. There has undoubtedly been mistakes by the manager and the board along the way which have hindered us (big defeats, poor team selections, poor tactics, ****ing up player signings, not getting over the line with trophies) but there have also been some huge upsides (tremendous performances, great wins, brilliant signings, player development, consistency, acceleration of our commercial income) which have helped us remain in the mix at the top of the game. Of course, we need to overlay these things with external factors - a matter of degree, the level of positivity/negativity in your disposition, your patience level, probably your age/generation plays a part too. Irrespective of all that though is a common ground we all have to a man which is a love for Arsenal Football Club to be as successful as it possibly can be. Surely now is the time for us to agree that there's been merit in some/all of our points over the past few years (and that the way in which we have articulated ourselves hasn't always been respectful or objective), it hasn't been perfect as perhaps some have made out nor as terrible as others have suggested, but most importantly that we appear to be in a good position on and off the pitch to move forward. Let's accept that we can all have views without being pigeon-holed in or judged by an insulting and needless acronym. Let's try to be open-minded and do our best to enjoy ourselves as we support the team as a collective in the new season.

  190. Gooner89

    Jul 17, 2014, 22:53 #53947

    Colin H you are entitled to write what you like even, imho, if it is the biggest load of pro Lord Wenger tripe I have seen on is site for a long time. What you are not entitled to do is to question the support of people like myself by telling us to go down the Lane because we dare to question your glorious leader. I loathe the Spuds have been a Gooner for over 40 years and a season ticket holder for 35. I eat sleep and drink Arsenal Football club. The key word being Arsenal not Arsene. I don't believe there has been a single AMG question e loyalty of AKB's. So please don't insult us by doing it. Now back to AKB central command and get ready to prepare for the next crisis of Wengers making. Finally just to be clear. WENGER OUT

  191. jeff wright

    Jul 17, 2014, 22:16 #53946

    This so called Ozil rant appears to be the work of a racist moron . I myself and millions of others in this country have given money for years to children charities and others . Unlike Ozil though we don't go public boasting about it.

  192. mandy dodd

    Jul 17, 2014, 21:51 #53945

    one signing of the forward (note again not an out an out striker) that we have needed since RVP left and the akbs are out in force preaching again. morons. see you next july after our 4th place and tn pot cup victory.

  193. mezut gooner ozil

    Jul 17, 2014, 21:41 #53944

    Jeff Right, I can now see why you are anti mezut ozil(.the little turk as you call him.)are you offended that he has given his bonus to the children of Gaza and him being a Muslim, that he is anti Israel. You have finally shown your true colours Jeff. Please renew your season ticket down at the Lane and get off my website once and for all..

  194. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 21:20 #53943

    @cultofwenger. Where are you looking at a trend? There isn't one - other than Wenger's best performance with GG's defence is better than GG's and GG's worst performance with them is worse than Wenger's worst - even allowing for the fact that they were much older and past their best (though more sober perhaps) while Wenger had them. You said that Wenger's success owed something to GG's defence so if there's any wriggling you're the one doing it. The link with the fortunes of French football is even more tenuous. The reality there is that Wenger's dependence on French players had more or less ended by the time the team had reached its peak. To reach your conclusions you've had to ignore a great deal that has gone on both outside and inside the club. Factors that have been far more significant in affecting the fortunes of the club over the last 10 years than those you cite. You've been no less selective in your arguments than anyone else. The good thing about stats and their use though is that simply dismissing them as dubious doesn't wash unless you can explain what you think is misleading or dubious about them.

  195. BADARSE

    Jul 17, 2014, 21:05 #53942

    I think we need to be sensible here gentlemen. The German sausage industry today stands accused of operating an organised cartel, to keep the price of the bangers artificially high. As a vegetarian I expect the Wurst!

  196. "4th is our priority" Wenger every August

    Jul 17, 2014, 20:44 #53941

    One FA cup in 9 years.8-2.4-4 after being 4 up with 20 mins to go.Humiliated in the last 16 every year in Europe we we draw a decent team.Long contracts to Almunia Djourou Denilson Bendtner and Diaby.6-3 5-1 and 6-0.Buying Kalstrom when we needed a striker.Wenger truly is a football genius.Last summer we bought Ozil and finished in the same position as the year before

  197. Wenger Out

    Jul 17, 2014, 20:12 #53940

    Colin H so we went a few years without a trophy.Under George Graham we only had to wait one year without winning a trophy before we won another one not 9.Last season we conceded 6 TWICE did we ever think we would live to see that happen.FA cup pappered over the cracks of another collapse in the league and dont even mention the CL

  198. jjetplane

    Jul 17, 2014, 20:09 #53939

    SPIKE, AMG, BARD & MACGUIRE keeping the true Arsenal faith. Why do these articles have to be written? Who are they trying to convince? Themselves it would appear. The best Arsenal manager ever! You can see the temple full of them repeating their little mantra. Just keep your eye on the back wheel. I know - it just needs oiling. ps Looks like the Ballotelli deal will be wrapped up in NYC. For Turin Shrouds see Puma (bargain clearance) shirts.

  199. cornish gooner

    Jul 17, 2014, 19:52 #53938

    Well, here we were again in the old Jamaica Inn, supping a few bevies and Diggory says have you lads read this here Margate Gooner's article? Old Blind Pew let his glass of Peroni fall to the floor, "whatever those lads are smoking up in England these days" he says, 'I want some".

  200. Spike

    Jul 17, 2014, 19:16 #53937

    Never mind that Arsene had just bungled his umpteenth transfer in a row before that chant surfaced from fans who had had enough. If you want to write an article telling the world how wonderful OGL is in your eyes, no problem but why turn it into a pop at all those who might wish to see him replaced? I am neither an AKB or an AMG but I just want my club to employ the best employees it can for its budget. I think AW is grossly overpaid for what he achieves, I dont give a stuff what he achieved 8 years ago, I am interested in what he is doing now and in my opinion there are better managers in football who could be got for the price we are paying. Both Guardiola and Ancelotti would have been on my list at the time of Arsene's last renewal but the club seem incapable of imagining life without Arsene. I am glad you are happy with the way things are (and I do agree that what AW did for the club over 10 years ago should never be forgotten - we were light years away from a European Cup final before he arrived) but I think we have been underachieving for many years now and it needs to stop.

  201. AMG

    Jul 17, 2014, 19:09 #53936

    Actually that's not all - 1. We played Wigan and Hull on neutral ground and struggled. 2. Worst point you could have made, where you end up in the league is your true position. The injuries happen every season, so they were in no way unprecedented. 3. Our season did fall apart - 18 times qualified, 0 times won.... and so on. I don't know who you've been talking to, but internationally acclaimed as one of the greatest managers of all time? He's not won a single thing on the international stage, so how can he be internationally acclaimed? The kind of blanket statement, which is impossible to substantiate. Get your head out of arsene's backside and hang your head in shame.

  202. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jul 17, 2014, 19:07 #53935

    AW has assembled some great teams but for me he has finished runner up far too many times to be classed as a really great manager. George Graham led Arsenal to five finals and won four of them - had Wenger achieved that kind of return then yes he would have been classed as a great manager. IMO Arsene's weakness is when his teams do not have the ball and that is when players really do have to perform. The thrashings Arsenal have had over the past 5 - 6 years are glaring examples of Wenger's failings at the highest level.

  203. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 17, 2014, 18:45 #53934

    Amos, of course my post is more relevant, because it looks at the trend rather than the anomaly. I thought you would appreciate that, although given your comments I would be disappointed to read you rebuking the likes of jeff wright for cherry-picking figures in future posts. Nice try at wriggling away from the fact that you stated I said something that I didn't actually say, but the inconvenient truth is that as France's star has waned, so has Arsenal's. Unless of course you believe that fourth place constitutes a trophy, or that Arsenal won the 'stamina league' last season, in which case everything is great. Thanks for your concern but I'm not sceptical of stats at all, just your dubious use of them.

  204. AMG

    Jul 17, 2014, 18:45 #53933

    Terrible article - that is all!

  205. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 17, 2014, 18:26 #53932

    Bard, l like your style i tip my hat (it seems to be the done thing) post of the day if not the last five years.

  206. Th14afc

    Jul 17, 2014, 18:05 #53931

    Amen to that....Wenger is still the man

  207. Joeos

    Jul 17, 2014, 17:51 #53930

    A very fair and reasoned assessment of the Wenger years. It is dangerous however in that it may cause the heads to explode of some of the people who routinely post statements full of bile. I must say that I find it odd that some people post the same negative and insulting statements day after day and week after week. One would expect that they would find something to do that brings them joy rather than repeat statements and congratulating each other on their wisdom and enlightenment when their opinions have no impact on Arsenal and never will have.

  208. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 17:41 #53929

    @cultofwenger. You've taken more words than needed to agree with me that Wenger got GG's defence to concede fewer goals than GG ever managed. I'm not sure the rest of your post was any more relevant than that GG's worst record with his defence is worse than Wenger's worst record with them. But your original suggestion that Wenger's successes are largely due to such strokes of luck as the defence he inherited, or the state of French football at the time, painting him as a 'lucky general' in terms of coaching is contradicted by the consistency of relative success he has been able to achieve. You don't need to be at all sceptical about stats - only their interpretation. I look forward to reading any such rational conclusions as you feel they might support.

  209. chris dee

    Jul 17, 2014, 17:31 #53928

    Without doubt Arsenal is a great manager.We all got pi**ed off during those 9 'lean' years because of the great success we had during his first few seasons we were used to success.But we are like any other fans who love their clubs.We want to win everything.Most of the fans during this 'lean' period moaned,groaned got angry and frustrated ,just as I was,but deep down knew Arsene was a good manager.Some of course were not having that and became shamefully abusive where Arsene was concerned. But let's look forward.Last season was the first in 9 years we did not sell any top players (the new stadium had to be paid for)and actually bought a class player and we won a trophy.So with Sanchez signed that away Puma kit will spell another trophy this year.

  210. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 17, 2014, 16:52 #53926

    Amos, a really poor, thoughtless response (57084). Apart from stating I said something that I didn't say, why quote one season's figure in isolation to 'prove' Wenger's coaching acumen when it's clearly not part of a trend? In his first (partial) season the defence conceded the same number of league goals as in Rioch's year, in his first full season of coaching they actually conceded one goal MORE! The excellent season followed but the year after that the goals against tally more than doubled! It's silly to try and mislead people when many are already familiar with the figures involved, and as I see you quoting numerous other stats elsewhere on this thread I for one will be looking at them with scepticism as you obviously enjoy cherry-picking the facts that fit your argument. I urge others to show similar caution.

  211. jeff wright

    Jul 17, 2014, 16:20 #53925

    Ron, my view is that Wenger wanted to buy Suarez, but bottled it when he found he couldn't get him for 40m and a quid. The Ozil fee was 42m and that money was there still in the kitty ,after the Villa defeat , because Wenger had not spent it. If Wenger had managed to get Suarez then I am convinced that Ozil would never have been signed,because Suarez lurking ,due to his then current biting ban , would have been the joker in the pack to deflect the spend some forking money chants after the Villa debacle. We saw panic buys after the OT mauling and the Ozil one was another. Wenger probably had considered signing him in the past,along with many others,but there is no evidence that he was a number one target for Wenger last season,in fact all the evidence of the Suarez attempt and Wenger's later comments last December says that the bucktoothed cannibal was the man that he dreamed of signing he even said so ,and not Ozil,who he did not really need anyway.

  212. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 16:17 #53924

    @jeffwright. The proposition that Ozil was a panic buy without any thing to support it has to be an idea from the mind of someone unable to see anything positive in any of the club's actions. I'm not sure how you conclude that posting a link to the views of John Cross can be likened to a conspiracy theory but I can see that they would be uncomfortable reading for your theory. As more food for thought in whether Arsene was really seeking Ozil's qualities as a player , and recognising that nobody in the World Cup made as many passes and passed as accurately in the final third, nor set up more goal attempts as Ozil did then this thought from Wenger - a year before he signed Ozil might help your thinking “It’s because the density of players you have to fight against in the final third is always getting bigger, so the quality of the pass and the technique in that area has become much more important. There is less space available, so the accuracy is key. Secondly, because there is a smaller space the shorter players, the very agile players are becoming more important and the taller players in midfield less so. That could be an explanation. It’s changed in the last four or five years - the distances absorbed by players are becoming bigger and bigger, and therefore the limited space on the pitch demands more technical ability.” Of course you could feign a yawn if the thought tests your preferences too much.

  213. UTU

    Jul 17, 2014, 16:14 #53923

    At last Wenger is buying world class players, just sort out the defence and who knows what could happen. As for people wanting Wenger out that has not change, maybe if he wins the Champions League with The Arsenal all may be forgiven.

  214. Ron

    Jul 17, 2014, 16:03 #53922

    Jeff - in all fairness can you really think Arsenal would blow 42 Mill on a whim? I cant. I agree that the famed 'trolley dash' buys of 2011 after the OT debacle would be hard to argue weren't such buys but not a 42 Mill splash by Arsenal? Surely not? Its hard to tell how buys work. There was a lot of talk that Ancellotti didnt want Bale for eg at one stage! I know that you dont rate Ozil ( im yet far from convinced about him)but he is a typical Wenger type buy it has to be said. Light framed. Deft of touch, intelligent style, prone to go AWOL in bigger games and frightened of his own shadow when the opponent gets tasty. No, They planned to buy him and it probably was first touted back in 2010/11 when Ozil looked the business im guessing.

  215. jeff wright

    Jul 17, 2014, 16:02 #53921

    Amos, if the Ozil signing was a carefully planned one then I would hate to think what a rushed one would be like!Anyway,considering how it worked out, obviously a must do better mark is required . If anyone is indulging in conspiracy theories then it is you with your John Cross (a big yawn needed here) claims ,Bale and what have you ,it all reads like a plot from Footballers Wives !

  216. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 15:48 #53920

    @jeffwright. Whether you live in a fantasy world or just one inhabited by conspiracy theorists probably doesn't make a great deal of difference. It amounts to much the same thing. The process for buying Bale was underway long before Ancelotti was even appointed therefore the need to finance the deal was already there before he joined - as Arsenal would have known. Ancelloti had no input in the buying decision and no choice other than to sell the player they could get the most for and one that Arsenal wanted most. Ozil has said that Wenger tried to buy him 3 years earlier so they knew each other before the call to Ozil which could only be made once they had reached an agreement in principle with Real. Clearly John Cross believes it was a deal in the making for some months. It's just the fantasists and conspiracy theorists who believe the club simply decided on the last day of the transfer window to spend £42m that they hadn't otherwise intended to spend - especially when a pattern of spending even larger sums had been set over the previous two seasons and indeed has continued this season. Now come on just admit that all you're doing is finding a narrative to fit your entrenched prejudices. Most already recognise it as such already.

  217. Tony Evans

    Jul 17, 2014, 15:44 #53919

    We will all know soon enough whether we are going to get the pre or post 2006 Wenger this coming season. 3 more decent signings - DM, RB, GK a must (CB would be a bonus too) and an abandonment of the throwing caution to the wind approach, and I would be looking forward to this season with real optimism, despite my mis-givings with Wenger.

  218. BADARSE

    Jul 17, 2014, 15:35 #53918

    Thanks Colin, good old East Kent! Enjoyed the spirited and well-written article. Nice to put the cat amongst the pigeons sometimes. Good also to see Amos and Gaz posting again. Amos just back from his walking on water act at Battersea Fun Fair, and Gaz warming down after his Tour de France Yorkshire legs, (the rest of his body is a little bit Yorkshire too). 'Seconds away-round two!'

  219. Roy

    Jul 17, 2014, 15:34 #53917

    A very well written article. The counter arguments have already been stated on this thread before I had the chance to read it, so I won't go there, but a very good piece nonetheless. More quality articles of this standard please, regardless of the subject matter. Well done.

  220. jeff wright

    Jul 17, 2014, 15:33 #53916

    Amos, Ancelotti dropped Ozil for playing reasons he was the player that he preferred to sell to help pay for monkey boy. He was right on that. Your scenario of a number of other players that could have been sold only adds further fuel to the fire regarding the implausible claims about Ozil having been chatted up for months by Arsene. Ozil himself said that the first contact he had with Wenger was on the phone on the Sunday following the Villa game,and with himself knowing that he was surplus to requirements at Madrid he decided to join AFC. The Fact that no Deutsche club came in for him obviously anyway left him like a carry on regardless camper up a creek in a canoe with out a paddle. Now come on just admit that Ozil was a panic buy and one that has still yet to be proven to be a good one.No one believes that he was a planned signing.

  221. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 17, 2014, 15:27 #53915

    Yes the eleventh Commandant has been revived again, just because what fans have been crying out for for years has/seems to have been done. Thou Shalt not Critise OGL, how long will it last this time because nothings changed yet. It's as if the last nine years didn't happen the carpet at AKB central command must be huge, and underneath look like the beach in the photo.

  222. GoonerGoal!

    Jul 17, 2014, 15:11 #53914

    One Sanchez does not a season make, but it appears that Wenger has finally got the message that the Barcelona-lite experiment has been totally exposed as a 4th place guarantee only. Perhaps the style revolution has already begun, but right now we await a defensive mid-fielder and another striker, plus the first ten matches of the new season, only then will we see if the Wenger rehabilitation really is complete. Until then I shall keep my powder dry... VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

  223. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 15:08 #53913

    @Tony Evans. I don't think the club have ever put any figure on the size of the mythical war chest - it has always been a media invention. Before we moved into the Emirates Edelman mentioned that we had £70m in cash but only a fool would have imagined all of that would have been available for transfers. Sadly much of the media, if they're not fools themselves, imagine their readers are. But it's worth mentioning that the stadium cost a reported £400m+ to build yet the 'mortage' in the form of fixed term bonds was only £260m. Prior to moving into the stadium the build was halted for one year because the club had run out of cash. The difference of £140m between the build costs and the 'mortgage' came from the clubs own resources. How much money did Wenger have during 2006-2013? To some extent the answers to that are in the annual published accounts from which you can see the cash flow only really began to strengthen from 2010 onwards - and the club has been spending at the present high level since summer 2011.

  224. jeff wright

    Jul 17, 2014, 15:03 #53912

    Westie, I prefer to live in the real world rather than some fantasy Arsene one where 4th place is a trophy and 9 years of failure is a success !This Khedeira thing looks like another of those red herrings put about to help make it look like Wenger, just back from winning the world cup in Brazil, is actually trying to put together a squad to compete with City,Chelsea and United for the Prem and to make a realistic challenge for the European Cup. Albeit another 2 at least top signings as well will be required to make that a possibility,you win no top prizes with clowns in goal. Tatty and Flambo will still be on parade next term .I still also reckon that Wenger will be expecting last seasons players to step up to the plate and Diaby ,when not down the mosque with his family praying to Allah 5 times a day, will be ,well you know the rest ,yawn...

  225. underacheiver

    Jul 17, 2014, 15:02 #53911

    Absolutely ridiculous to compare statistics from today with 60 70 or 80 years ago, its a totally different world. Statistics can be twisted anyway you want. Why don't you give us the figures for average amount of trophies won per year under each managers reign, or where we are in the list of most trophies won by clubs before and after Wengers reign. And then the amount of money spent on players for success. Even accounting for inflation its most likely that he would be bottom on that one. All absolutely meaningless as is this article.

  226. Tony Evans

    Jul 17, 2014, 14:57 #53910

    Double Double Double - I take your point but the unknowable fact is how much money did Wenger have at his disposal during the years 2006-2013. It is very convenient for the pro Wenger camp to blame all our ills on the new stadium, which led to a supposed lack of transfer funds, but if you remember a 'war chest' of £100M was mentioned several times by Gazedis, which Wenger repeatedly said he didn't want / need to spend. Also other factors need to be taken in to account such as the ridiculous wages / contracts handed out willy nilly to distinctly average players, and the 'socialist' wage structure Wenger introduced which was never going to work at a Premiership club in a million years. Both these issues inevitably led to our best players wanting out.

  227. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 14:52 #53909

    @jeff. Ancelotti wasn't really given a choice of whether to keep Ozil - or whether to buy Bale for that matter. He didn't take the decision to sell because it wasn't his to take. He was told that they had to sell at least one of Ozil, Benzema or Di Maria and as it seems Arsenal's preference was for Ozil that was the deal that had to be done - so that was the 'decision' he had to make. In fact Di Maria wouldn't have raised the money RM needed on his own so the choice may well have been to either sell Ozil or lose two other players. If you follow the case put forward by John Cross then even the words of a snake oil salesman have more logic than your prejudices.

  228. Westlower

    Jul 17, 2014, 14:31 #53908

    @Double x3, You forgot to add that Billy Wright's youngster's were responsible for Bertie Mee's success. @Bard, So good to read you've finally seen the light, better than living on the dark side of the moon with Jeff & Maguiresbridge. You know it makes sense!

  229. jeff wright

    Jul 17, 2014, 14:31 #53907

    Amos, I take anything that the snake oil salesman says with a large pinch of salt. Ancelotti says that he made the decision to sell Ozil because he did not fit into the style of football that he wanted Real Madrid to play the little Turk had been a regular in the el galactico first team until Ancelotti arrived and dropped him into the stiffs. . Ancelotti was not even at RM during the time these alleged negotiations that Ivan the uncredible claimed were supposedly taking place. But hey as they say in Bollywood why let the truth stand in the way of a good story.

  230. cyril

    Jul 17, 2014, 14:15 #53906

    It's a good piece and I like to read good things, but like anything you can slant stats and material fact to benefit. For e.g I did one on here a while stating that arsenal over the last 40 years had only finished out of the top 7 on 3 occasions and that includes a cup double: I left out the previous year in early 70's when we finished 16th. Again I also did not include the 70's double so you see my point. The fact that many of us have been upset is purely to do with the 'here and now' i.e 9 years without a trophy. Of course we are going to grumble, are you mad! Back to your stats were you point out that Wenger is the most successful and this is true, however that came all in the early years. Now if we shuffle his record for arguments sake(in a parallel universe) and use the trophies he has won over 18 years into averages, so instead of 3 titles and fa cups in 9 years and transpose it to 3 over 18 years (so handing down one every six years) . The question would be - would he still be here? I am not so sure. The fact that he has won so much between 98 and 2004, does not mean we want to be sitting here until 2025 without another trophy espousing his trophy haul. That is basically all it is about! However great piece and great to see Wenger happy and winning again.

  231. ManUnited Killer

    Jul 17, 2014, 14:14 #53905

    A myopic article from another Wenger Apologetic. The 'spend some f**king money' chant is what resulted in Ozil penning for us.Word has it that was not even Wenger's doing. I don't care whose doing it was as long as we spend some f**cking money.Talking about not finding quality better than we have? I dont know what Wenger is on but it sure real good at making him high. Word on the street Chelsea seems to have edged us in the race to secure Khedira due to the players ridiculous wage demands of 250k per week plus add ons.Now I am not thrilled about Wenger but if he decides to not pursue Khedira we will have my full backing.What the hell are some players smoking these days.Khedira on 250K? get out of here!

  232. CT Gooner

    Jul 17, 2014, 14:04 #53904

    How to respond??? Bard took the sarcastic response and others pointed out the true BS "told you so" aspect. My current view is this: our squad appears to be improving, though right now that's due to losing dead weight (signed by Wenger) rather than bring in many world class players. I love Sanchez, but he alone will not make us finish in the top 4. Wenger needs to prove he can coach against the big boys, last season was pathetic, and face it, to win in Europe you need to out coach as every team is great. Our standard of play is improving, but it ain't where it was 10 years ago and it's not where it should be. Things are looking up, but before writing too many more articles like this, remember last season was supposed to be our season with all the other teams changing managerial direction, and I don't think winning the FA cup really took advantage of that.

  233. DoubleDoubleDouble

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:55 #53903

    @Tony Evans. They wanted to leave as Arsenal couldn't afford the wages on offer elsewhere. With the exception of Cesc, who went for different reasons than the others, which of the players went on to earn less money at Man City, Man Utd, Barcelona, or Chelsea? RVP wanted the club to invest more money in the squad, but it was a season too early for the investment he was after as the finances weren't in place then. We were forced to sell our players, just as Spurs were forced to sell Bale, not to survive but because the players wanted to earn more money elsewhere and because the clubs they went to had far greater resources to invest heavily in their squads, and players want the chance to win more trophies as well as earn more money. And we did exactly the same to clubs lower down on the financial pecking order as the ones above did to us, as we could offer Champions League football and decent wages, but now we can offer Champions League football, top wages, and the knowledge that we are able to invest heavily in the squad to increase their chances of medals, which makes us a far more attractive proposition to players than we were just a couple of seasons ago. Our best players wanting to leave is why we had to sell players, but it is the reasons that they wanted to leave that are important.

  234. Ron

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:53 #53902

    Really well written article, though its veracity is rather questionable due to it not looking at or referring to the counter arguments that would/might dilute it. It also uses extravagant descriptions here and there so to make its crucial arguments much more flowery, designed to persuade the reader to view it as a compelling academically sound view, which is fine of course as its what's intended isn't it!. However time constraints for the author would no doubt apply and i accept that. Ive not the time to try and dismantle it these days and im happy to accept it as a very well penned opinion but is just one amongst many, a lot of which aren't so forgiving to Arsene. AMOS makes the most compelling point here when he says that the distinction between 'AMG' and 'AKB' isnt as defined as many think. Its just idle labelling in my view and shows scant regard for what posters really think and feel. I'll say no more than Amos has. Him and me differ fundamentally on stuff at times but hes a top poster and as far as this thread is concerned, his utterances are fine by me and make up the best and most rational part of this thread, inc the original post. Basically, there isnt and never will be a 'winnable' argument over Arsenes merits and de merits so the whole debate i.e go or stay in truth needs killing off. This is the view that ive reconciled myself to. I think im getting too long in the tooth to bother with it!!

  235. Tony Evans

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:38 #53901

    Double Double Double - Your comment about 'having to sell our best players' can not go unchallenged. It should read 'our best players wanted to leave'. I have long wanted Wenger out, but I am tired of this debate now. He is with us for the foreseeable so surely the time has come for both sides of the argument to agree to disagree.

  236. DoubleDoubleDouble

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:31 #53900

    @The Cult of Wenger will never die. If Wenger's achievements are down to Graham defence (for the first two league titles) and Rioch's signing of Bergkamp (for the unbeaten season), then doesn't that mean Don Howe is responsible for all Graham's achievements and Wenger's first two titles, as he gave Adams his debut? We weren't thought of as one of the biggest clubs in the world before Wenger took over, in fact Parma were regarded as a bigger club than us (!), as anybody who is old enough to remember that Cup Winners' Cup final knows we were the underdogs that night. If you're going to comment on what the Arsenal used to be like, then at least try and do a bit of research and not just presume that we've always been in the position we are in now.

  237. Kevin, the Margate Spud

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:30 #53899

    'Colin's a good lad, but for what it's worth, his Mum wrote that'. See yer down the pub mate.

  238. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:21 #53898

    If it really is killing you El Bodgeo the coroner would probably consider it as suicide because even the most superficial scan of the article shouldn't lead anyone to the conclusion that an argument that Rioch was a more successful manger than Graham is being made at all. Sadly that such conclusions, like the mistaken proposition from Cult of Wenger that we would have won nothing without Graham's defence (whom he actually improved coaching them to concede fewer goals in a season than GG ever managed0, are all too typical of the thoughtless responses that the writer of the article clearly finds so frustrating.

  239. Skooner

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:19 #53897

    I stopped reading at "2. We led the league for longer than any other club, and I for one have little doubt we would have made a much more sustained challenge for the top spot if we hadn’t been plagued by the unprecedented number of serious long-term injuries, most of them to key, irreplaceable players." Rather than unprecedented I would suggest it is an annual occurence which needs to be seriously looked at rather than used as an excuse year in year out.

  240. Bard

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:19 #53896

    Cracking post Colin. Reading it I suddenly saw the light. I used to think Arsene was a good manager whose best days were behind him. But thanks to your post I now realise how wrong I was. He alone is the saviour of all things Arsenal. Without him we are nothing, he is a demi god masquerading as a football manager. He has brought endless joy to us unappreciative fans ( if you exclude the last decade). How churlish of me not to have seen the light. From now on I hereby promise to worship him forever and not take his name in vain. My new posting name from now on will be Westlower 2. My suggestion is the club evict any fan who dares shout abuse at him and withdraw the season ticket forever without refund.

  241. jeff wright

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:19 #53895

    Ozil was obviously a panic buy by Stan after the Villa defeat at home there was even a blurb released by the AFC PR stating that Stan had played a full part in the signing of Ozil. This signing was a'la the ones after the 8 goal massacre at OT, these buys , and Ozil, were reactions to events and not planned . The jury is still out on Ozil by the way he has not looked like a 42m player. No club buys players for that sort of dosh to just win the FAC. It's also probable that we would have got 4th place in the Prem without him anyway. His contribution in the FAC final was non-existent. Rewriting history doesn't change these facts . Wenger with the 4th largest wage bill in the league is not pulling up any trees finishing a place ahead of Everton and all I can say about this article is,yawn. I detect already a touch of the panics among the AKB and the usual excuses are already being served up even before a ball has been kicked in anger ! You couldn't make it up.

  242. Gaz

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:07 #53894

    Simple fact is I could write an article with the same ammount of words that would be the complete opposite in opinion to what you've just wrote. Thing is-very much like this one-it would be a totally and utterly pointless thing to do. One of the very worst aspects of the last 6/7 years has been the way the Arsenal fanbase has been split right down the middle to the point where fights have actually taken place! Its been bloody horrible in all honesty. I'll never ever believe I was wrong in wanting Arsene to leave though and even now I'm convinced we should have won at least one title in those prevailing 6/7 years. I'm also now convinced though that winning the Cup and Arsene staying was always going to be the quickest route to greater success despite how I've felt about the manager. We're in a good place now and rather than raking up old arguements or petty point scoring attempts I suggest we all just enjoy the fact we're finally acting as a big Club should (absolutely loving the Sanchez signing!!!). I've got the new shirt, both days of the emirates cup are booked, and I've been invited to the members day as a gurest of a shareholder pal of mine! It feels like I'm falling in love all over again and in all honesty I'm loving the experience!!!

  243. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:07 #53893

    Let's be honest, if French football hadn't been about to enter it's one and only period of being the best in the world at precisely the moment that Wenger took over, we would have won nothing under him. Add to that Bergkamp and George Graham's defence and you have one of Napoleon's very lucky Generals. Lasagne-gate, the worst goalkeeping performance I've ever seen at West Brom to again somehow keep us in the top four and last season our only decent striker missing just one game through injury despite being run into the ground brings us right up to date. He will always do just enough to get away with it, and his flock will always find excuses for him. Arsenal are one of the biggest clubs in the world, yet Wenger works in a pressure-free environment (as reflected by many posters on here) so there's no reason for anything to change.

  244. El Bodgeo

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:04 #53892

    Hahahah! Bruce Rioch was a more successful Arsenal manager than George Graham! Hahahah! Stop it, your killing me! Hahah!

  245. DoubleDoubleDouble

    Jul 17, 2014, 13:01 #53891

    @maguiresbridge gooner. Teams win and lose, even the best managers suffer heavy defeats - just ask any Man Utd fan how it felt to lose to Man City at home when Ferguson was in charge. We may not have won a load of trophies over the last nine seasons, but the entire scope of English football changed in that time and there was nothing we could do about it, however we maintained a level of competitiveness that would have been remarkable if we'd had full financing, let alone the debt of moving stadiums. Liverpool, Spurs, Everton, and even Aston Villa (remember when their fans were boasting about taking OUR Champions League spot?!) all failed to maintain our level of consistency despite having the same opportunity as us. Man City wouldn't have been anywhere near us without the Middle East money, and Chelsea were on the verge of going out of business entirely before the Russian took over. Looking at Arsenal without looking at English football in general is why your opinion doesn't deserve consideration, and whilst you may think your opinion matters, nobody can take someone seriously who looks at life in a bubble. The stadium move meant we would be treading water for years, and then later we could compete with Man Utd on a more level financial footing, well now we have to compete with Man City and Chelsea as well due to unforseeable circumstances, but we're blowing the likes of Spurs and Liverpool out of the water when it comes to finances, as they have to sell their best players for mega-money to buy (and neither have a Bale or Suarez coming through every season to allow them to do that), and Everton and Villa aren't even at the same race. What makes Wenger a world class manager is due to the prevailing circumstances of his achievements - he's brought us a top 4 level of consistency when we really should have been in mid-table, as we've had to sell our best players and buy at the same level as the likes of Spurs, Everton, Villa, Newcastle, etc. Well now we don't have to shop at Lidl like them, we get to go to Fortnum & Mason, so when a man can achieve a great meal on a pauper's budget from Lidl, it's hardly surprising that many believe he can achieve a banquet fit for royalty on a far more substantial budget, especially as he served us a banquet before when we were shopping at Sainsbury.

  246. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 17, 2014, 12:33 #53890

    Why is there somewhere they should be going? some of those AMG's have been here just as long as you and longer,what's changed? what's different? Does spending money and signing a player suddenly make him a world beater and a tactical genius and air brush the last nine years and all the stuffing's and humiliations out of history, they did happen you know, (regardless of the first eight seasons)it wasn't a dream, do you think they won't happen again because hes spent some f***ing money? And to think AMG's have been accused of repeating themselves. Now hurry up and rejoin the queue outside his bathroom the baby wipes are running out.

  247. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 12:32 #53889

    @DoubleDoubleDouble. Our net spend would have been higher last summer but it would have still partly been financed by previous profits on player trading. Net spend has always been misleading for a club that likes to earn its money before it spends it. Either way, though this summer will probably increase the examples, our gross spend since Kroenke took control is as much as the previous 8 seasons combined and our net spend as much as the previous 9 seasons. Improving finances and the resolution of boardroom conflicts changed 3 years ago. What we're seeing now is the consequence of long term, but far sighted investment and management, and the more recently acquired expertise to develop that investment commercially.

  248. Joe

    Jul 17, 2014, 12:19 #53887

    Dec Wenger runs Arsenal from head to toe no player comes in to Arsenal without he's say so on one.

  249. LOL

    Jul 17, 2014, 12:07 #53886

    6-0 at Chelski. 6-3 at Citeh. 3-0 at Everton. 5-1 at Anfield. Routine humiliation in the CL. 17 years and no CL trophy. Zero wins against Mourinho despite having 11 attempts (a worse record than Tony Pulis and Mark Hughes can I add). 8 years without a trophy. Screws up Draxler transfer when Arsenal in with a shout of the league and signs KALLSTROM. 10 years and just 1 FA Cup to show for it: a managerial record similar to Roberto Martinez of Wigan. Diaby. 8-2 Old Trafford. Regular thrashings by all big teams. Tactically clueless. But apparently HE signed Alexis Sanchez, who will cure cancer and solve world hunger...LOL. The prosecutions rests Your Honour.

  250. BobbyPires

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:59 #53885

    Please can we stop having this argument, fact is that both sides have a point.

  251. DoubleDoubleDouble

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:58 #53884

    @Amos. I thought our net spend was higher last year due to the purchase of Ozil without the need for player sales as had happened in previous seasons. I don't like Kroenke, nor do I dislike him, but he does what it says on the tin, and neither takes money out, nor puts it in. We survive or fall on what our manager and team can achieve, which I like from both a business (if you constantly need a bailout, then your business model is poor) and romantic (as we earned it ourselves and don't need daddy to dip into his pocket when we screw up) point of view. I've supported this club since the late 70's, and I can't think of a better time to be an Arsenal fan going forward than now, as the future looks like being a belter due to the infrastucture put in place by Wenger and the Board. I think the Wenger/Graham/1930's eras of success will be dwarfed by what we achieve over the next few decades.

  252. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:47 #53883

    @unchives. It's the negative judgements of our achievements that are often superficial. Changing the image and personality of Arsenal as an entertaining team playing attractive football has been a clear success. Most of the 'quotes' you've attributed are out of context. Sure some of his buys didn't succeed, just as some of the buys of other managers have flopped (more spectacularly in some cases), but a lot them did succeed. The recent CIES report on squad transfer value at the end of last season seems to show he's still doing as good a job in that department as he has always done when compared to his peers.

  253. Cameron326

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:46 #53882

    Also. Our first sniff of success for NINE seasons, and the first bit of positivity around the club . . . And then you come here on your high horse with a how dare you supporters criticize the Great Leader Who Is Perfect In All Things attitude. Classy. Even allowing for thenopinion that, overall, that Wenger has done a fairly decent job the past decade with his hands somewhat tied, there arevmany MANY things he got wrong during that time, including sanctioning paying Championship Level players 50k to 100k per week to represent Arsenal. If we could only afford that level of player fine - but asking fans to fork out 50quid plus a ticket to pay the stratospheric wage demands of thrid rate crap like Silvestre and Denilson and Bendtner was kind of insulting!

  254. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:35 #53881

    That's a much more reasoned appraisal of the last 10 years or so DoubleDoubleDouble. Factor in the help that changes in player contract laws in 2005 and 2008 gave to Abramovich and Mansour and others while we were getting through the obligations of our stadium investment and our relative failure can be seen as the relative success it really is. One last point to clear up though is that our spending started when Kroenke took control not when we bought Ozil. In fact we spent less last summer than either of the two previous transfer seasons. This summer seems set to continue in the same vein.

  255. Cameron326

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:28 #53880

    "No recognition that from the 1950s to the late 1980s, in the national pecking order we were also behind Liverpool and Leeds and on a par with clubs like Everton and Spurs" But rather than supporting your argument, this actually defeats it. for as I say above, per-Premier League, the top division as a whole was FAR more evenly balanced on terms of club incomes, player wages, and (I'm guessing a bit here) attendances. For the majority of Wenger's reign Arsenal have been a relative financial powerhouse - easily the third or fourth top earning club in the country and one of the highest in the world.. Yes, his fantastic first five seasons were partly responsible for that, but so was: Rioch's signing of Bergkamp GG defence Being the biggest team in the Capital when the sky money came flushing in Charging London ticket prices when football Boomed More than anything, Sky and the Premier League made the rleatively small bridgeable gaps between the 3rd and 4th richest clubs as the 5th and 6th richest club and the 7th and 8th etc into vast chasms. And Arsenal was in a great position to take advantage of that (although not quite as good as Man Utd).

  256. unchives

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:27 #53879

    @ Amos - How can changing a team to your own image & personality be superficial? We can all pick individual periods of time to pick holes in an argument.....Arsenal were voted as best team of the century based on consistency over that period, however if you were brought up with Arsenal during a non winning period you would not be impressed. On moving to the new stadium, Arsenes words were, "The Best Teams have the Best Players", we don't, arguable we did have, during the invincible s season. When he the states that we only sign players of "Super Quality"......and we have stapanovs, Senderos....the list can go on, he is open for ridicule.

  257. DoubleDoubleDouble

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:23 #53878

    I find it amusing that some people think Wenger and the Board would only sanction the buying of a £40m player due to some fans' chanting. The idea doesn't make any sense when you consider that they'd bid roughly the same amount a few weeks before for Suarez, which was prior to the Villa loss. When the club decided to finance the stadium, they'd taken the logical view that we would struggle, but the only competitors we had at the time were Man Utd and Liverpool, remember it was pre-Abramovich then, so although they knew finances would be tight, they had no reason to suspect that we wouldn't win some trophies before the finances righted themselves. It was bad luck for us that Chelsea and Man City got their benefactors, though it didn't just affect us, Man Utd, Liverpool and even Spurs missed out on the chance of extra silverware because of it. The off-pitch process of turning us into a European powerhouse started when they agreed to go ahead with the stadium, and anyone with even the slightest ounce of business acumen knew that the on-pitch process would start around 2013-14, as that was when the deals could start to be renegotiated. Last season we saw the foundation block of that process - buying Ozil - and now we are seeing the rest of it taking shape by the signing of Sanchez, and in the coming years we can expect more of that level of signings, and we will do it without the problems that face the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, as we won't have to sell our best players due to moving to the new stadium. It may not be a nice thing to hear, but we are Man Utd Mk.2, that is to say we are going to be a financial powerhouse through our own efforts, and not based on the whim of a rich owner. The future for our club is bright, and that was simply down to Wenger and the Board deciding on a classic strategy and implementing it in full knowledge that it wouldn't always be a bed of roses... ...short term pain, long term gain. It's not always been a fun journey, but by no means has it been disastrous, however the hard part of the journey is over, so enjoy the ride and quit your whining, as when you have the likes of Ozil and Sanchez in your team, and fans are arguing over whether the club should buy Bender or Khedira, then you know that you don't really have anything to complain about. First World problems.

  258. Westlower

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:15 #53877

    Well said Colin. I had to double check that I hadn't written the article myself. Hard to disagree with any of your thoughts.

  259. EC1

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:14 #53876

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

  260. Cameron326

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:12 #53875

    Nobody knows what would have happened if Arsenal had gone for a different manger back in 97. However, I think the suggestion that somehow Arsenal wouldn't be as big a club were it not for Wenger is a little bit suspect. Arsenal have always had a big cub mentality. - indeed look at the signing of Begrkamp that smashed the club record shortly before Wengers arrival. That is not to discredit any of Wengers contributions. But per Premier League clubs in England were ALL a lot more equal (this doesn't only apply to say Arsenal). As the best supported club in the Capital (and surroundings) Arsenal were IMO ver likely to rise to the top three or four in the country sooner or later, regardless of who's was in charge. Those calling for his resignation (and let's be onset here - a lot of that anger was directed at the board just as much as Wenger) we thoroughly entitled to do so. And indeed, the board acknowledged that what was being seen on the pitch WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH when they absolutely smashed the club answer record bringing in Ozil. While an excellent signing, he WAS a panic buy, to keep a club low on confidence in the CL and placate a supporter uprising, and we likely paid at least 5-10 million over the odds for him. What really hurt the club in those eight trophy less years was the misinformation. "There's loads of money available for improving the team . . . And yet we are not going to spend it". Despite glaring weaknesses in certain key positions, that, and they been filled, would have seen us win trophies. If the money was there the manager should take the flak for not spending. If the money WASN'T there the the board sould take the flak for lying. Which supporters WOULDN'T get pissed and desperate under such circumstances? Still, all that is history now. Credit to the board and manger, two/three away shambles aside, the players and manager rallied and put together a good season. And won a trophy. Fingers crossed this will be the first summer for a decade or so when we do transfer business in a manner befitting a Big Club with Bug Ambitions. The signs are good so far.....

  261. lee afc

    Jul 17, 2014, 11:07 #53874

    COLIN THE MARGATE GOONER....a truly brilliant, well constructed, honest piece. People like you seem to be few and far between these days on this site. Couldn't have said it better myself. I tip my hat to you my friend.

  262. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 10:55 #53873

    What part did 'George Graham's defence' play in the unbeaten season or the 49 game unbeaten league run? The reasons why there are distinct periods of success and of relative failure (or relative success depending on what you're relating it to!) are much less superficial than that.

  263. unchives

    Jul 17, 2014, 10:47 #53872

    Good article on the positives of Arsene Wenger. Now prepare an article on the negatives. His achievements were on the back of "George Graham's Defence", that is why his success & failure is split in two, not surprising or coincidental that when left to develop his own team in its entirety, nothing was Won.It is true that there is no adequate replacement for him........that is his job Guarantee....it is not good for standards, or for Arsenal FC & the fans.

  264. Noodles

    Jul 17, 2014, 10:38 #53870

    Gosh a great rant from a AKB ... However you must remember its ARSENAL FC not ARSEN FC and the man has been allowed to try and full fill his dream of a group of kids growing up and playing for each other, which clearly hasn't/didn't/and still wont work. I say thank God we did chant 'spent some "f**king Money" as the board took notice and got Ozil as club level wasn't selling ... Do you think Wenger would have bought Sanchez so quickly if it wasn't for Puma insisting him for the kit launch?? Not in a million years, he would still be kicking the tyres and faffing about like he is now with the rest of the players we need... Whatever you say we were lucky to win the FA cup and we were 10 mins away from going in the semis and Wenger in his classic i know F88king best played one of the worst keepers i have ever seen playing for Arsenal and one that even said he was going at the end of the season but Wenger STILL didn't play our number 1 keeper ...WHY?? AKB my Arse!!!

  265. Amos

    Jul 17, 2014, 10:29 #53869

    AMG is just as ludicrous an acronym as AKB. It's never wise to polarise opinion into such groupings. Sure some people don't appreciate what has been achieved or the background to those achievements but even when we were winning things regularly I remember claims that Wenger couldn't be considered a great manager because he had never won back to back titles! Some folk will only ever be able to make such superficial judgements, and/or become obsessed with conspiracies theories as they like play the victim and blame those responsible for what they perceive as failure. Wenger touched on this tendency when he spoke to student journalists a couple of years back “Our society has changed much deeper than we think it has. Sometimes for good because people are better informed, but as well sometimes for bad because people who really take action, people who have responsibilities are not respected as much as before. When you have an opinion you’re tempted to think you are right, because you do not have to prove you’re right. It’s just an opinion. Today everyone has an opinion and people who have real responsibilities are less respected.” But really it's an academic debate. The discontented don't really matter while those who genuinely are responsible can see beyond these superficial judgements and look to persist with policies aimed at enduring success rather than chasing rainbows. It will never please those who want to chase those rainbows but then again there's not really any reason to do so.

  266. Tokyngton Fan

    Jul 17, 2014, 10:27 #53868

    Well said. Patiently doing the RIGHT thing will always have it's reward. A fine balance of creating a competitive team and maintaining a sensible budget was done.

  267. Black Hei

    Jul 17, 2014, 10:19 #53866

    This is an inside job. It is clear that the purpose of this article is to whip up rhetoric against Wenger. Ok, now trolls, please start the trolling. Website's gonna garner plenty of traffic today.

  268. GoonGoonerGone

    Jul 17, 2014, 10:19 #53865

    So how much did Wenger take from his transfer budget to pay you for this b.s pr work on his behalf? I am a Gooner for 46 years and I have every right to tell Mr Wenger where to get off if he thinks he owns Arsenal FC? One 9 FAC-ups and one FA Cup in 9 seasons doesn't get Wenger off the hook, sir!

  269. Steve89

    Jul 17, 2014, 10:17 #53864

    mmmm - What about his tactical meltdown at the Etihad, Stam Bridge & Anfield????

  270. The Dec

    Jul 17, 2014, 10:16 #53863

    "" he did spend some money and bringing a world class player like Mesut Ozil to the club"" Arsene Wenger did not sign Mesut Ozil.....Ozil was a board signing that wenger was railroaded into due to the seriously toxic atmosphere that your precious Wenger had created for himself. good god i need a lie down after reading that...i feel ill!! Maybe another 8-2 spanking will make me feel better!

  271. Johan

    Jul 17, 2014, 10:16 #53862

    Top post!

  272. RDT - 4

    Jul 17, 2014, 10:10 #53861

    Good grief. Where does one start?

  273. Website Editor

    Jul 17, 2014, 9:55 #53860

    OnlineGooner is an open church which publishes views from right across the spectrum of fan opinion. Now, excuse me while I get my tin hat, I can sense some serious flak is imminent!