A Kingdom Divided?

Without Wenger, it could be worse



A Kingdom Divided?


Three weeks to the new season and it appears that expectation or dread appears in equal measure among Gooners everywhere. After being able to shake off the stigma of not having won a trophy for nine years we went into the close season with a sense of optimism fuelled by the once familiar glint of silverware. Well to be honest a lot of Gooners did while others felt a sense of foreboding as it was confirmed that Arsene was to be with us for another three years.

There can be no major football club on earth whose supporters are so conflicted about the abilities of our manager. One reason of course is that there are very few football managers who have been in position for eighteen years. By the time his next contract is up he will have been in charge for over twenty years - and there is no guarantee that if he believes he is doing a good job he won't extend even further!

There has been massive debate, some of it highly acrimonious about Wenger and the ownership regime at the club. I have been very critical of our major shareholder, Stan Kroenke. I sensed too much complacency about a very lucrative investment that required little servicing and which was seeing us pay the highest admission prices in world football. A world-class stadium was nowhere near matched by the quality of the side. But I sense a difference in approach this close season. Is this post Cup Final reverie or something more substantial? Are we seeing the beginning of the fulfilment of the dream Ivan Gazidis has been pitching to us for years or will we continue to be seemingly happy to compete for the much derided (but extremely lucrative) fourth place trophy?

I am conscious I have begun an article on the current state of the club with a series of questions That is perhaps indicative of the uncertainty around our club. What I will attempt to do is give my interpretation of events as a supporter of fifty five years standing and a season- ticket holder for over twenty.

There is no doubt that we have gone through some incredibly frustrating years since the incredible 'Invincible' season in 2004. It was hard to comprehend what an incredible feat that team achieved and how brilliant it was. It is important to remember that Arsene Wenger created that team. All of that side were put in place by Wenger and not only were they unbeatable in league terms but they also played stunning football as well.

Some non-Arsenal fans cannot believe what they see as the ingratitude of Arsenal fans towards Wenger given what he has achieved for the club. I will never regard Ashburton Grove with the affection that I did Highbury but it has to be recognised that what Arsenal have done in building a stadium of that quality whilst still managing to qualify for the Champions League EVERY season is a remarkable achievement.

Nevertheless across the Gooner kingdom there are many who see the last ten years as years of underachievement bookended by two FA Cups but falling short of the standards set by more ambitious clubs. Perhaps a better word for ambitious would be wealthy because there is no doubt that the emergence of first Chelsea and then Manchester City has ramped up the level of competition and forced any club hoping to compete with them to invest very heavily as well.

Sit in any part of the stadium and on one side you will find a Wenger loyalist (AKBs as their detractors call them) whilst on the other you will find someone who believes we need a new manager, and most probably a new Board and a new vision. It's an astonishing situation and it has arisen partly because of Wenger's unwillingness to pass the buck onto a Board that has undoubtedly tied his hands financially just at the time when finances were exploding all over the world of football. Can you imagine Harry Redknapp or his ilk being prepared to face the opprobrium of the supporters and a large dose of cynicism and ridicule in the media without passing the blame, possibly quite justifiably onto the people in the Boardroom? No, me neither.

It is a matter of irrelevance to me that each day the leading sports radio station ridicule Arsenal. That a supporter of Peterborough United who occupies in terms of intellect and journalistic ability the same place as his team do in the football firmament should lead that ridicule is bizarre and yet many supporters feel it is Arsenal's own fault that they attract such criticism. Were Arsenal to adopt a more genuinely open culture, one where they communicate in a way that gives deeper answers to the questions so many supporters have, they might find their fans cut them considerably more slack. I can still recall the sheer terror in Sir Chips Keswick's eyes when I encountered him at the supporters Christmas function last year. Looking for a friendly face he entreated me, 'You're not going to ask me any difficult questions are you?' By difficult he of course meant was I going to grill him about our intentions in the transfer market.

A better indication of the culture that underpins the club at Boardroom level is the AGM and the rather condescending approach to ordinary shareholders. This has been a concern for many longstanding supporters who feel ostracised by a club that they love. Slick marketing can never replace real genuine desire to communicate openly and Arsenal's culture of shrouding everything in carefully cloaked legalese - players are signed on long- term contracts for undisclosed fees - has developed a sense of opacity in Arsenal's dealings with its fan base. Of course running a football club in 2014 without the input of a sugar daddy is a balancing act. The Puma deal which has released extra funds for our transfer activity will be financed by selling three new kits each season to already heavily committed supporters.

But the main bone of contention is Wenger. Is he an old reactionary, tactically incapable of taking on the loathsome but streetwise Mourinho and co? Is he too easily satisfied with a place in the Champions League and a healthy profit rather than using a reputed £100 million in cash reserves to build a team that can go those few steps further?

I must make my position clear. Arsene Wenger is a legend at the club and in years to come we will wonder why we were ever dissatisfied with a manager with his track record of consistent achievement. But I don't think with him in charge we will ever win a League title again or a Champions League. And that underlines the enormous conundrum facing the club.

This close season has suggested the appetite for building a squad able to sustain a true title challenge might be back. I applaud the moves we have made in the transfer market and hope there will be more. It will be enormously hard to scale the summit in Europe given the enormous investment being made by the mega-clubs. In a sense Wenger's problem is of his own making in that he gave us a glimpse of the stars and now many feel he has lost his mojo. After all they point out Arsenal have the fourth highest wage bill in the Premier League. Is it any huge feat then to finish fourth?

It is becoming a cliché to point to Old Trafford and catalogue their disastrous attempt to replace Ferguson. But in their struggle there are lessons for us to heed. We have a superbly stable financial position and a very good squad. Wenger will never splash the cash like some of the more profligate managers but he is clearly being encouraged to do so by his management team, the Board and not least his own players. Nobody should ever forget what he has done for this club but there will always be a sense that he is unable to take us back to the summit of English football and to win the Champions League. That frustration will always fuel the criticisms of his many detractors but we could be an awful lot worse off - and if Wenger had never arrived at the club we might find ourselves scrabbling around with Everton, Spurs and Manchester United (I couldn't resist that!) hoping to secure a place in the Europa League.


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comments

  1. The Club

    Aug 05, 2014, 23:48 #54866

    We wish to take this opportunity to offer our sincerest apologies to the so-called agitators on this forum. We also would like to make it clear that it these very fans who are the spine of this great club. We hope we can even match their passion halfway this coming season and it is their sense of forward momentum that is currently moving this club in a greater direction. Without you we are nothing and we are more than aware who are the real moonies here. try and bring them into the light. Tell them we mean football business, not business. Have a good season one and all.

  2. BADARSE

    Aug 05, 2014, 22:14 #54862

    maguiresbridge, you seen my socks?

  3. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 05, 2014, 21:35 #54860

    Ron, OGL playing hard ball? sure you don't mean volley? maybe he was in the French Foreign Legion then he's well ard.

  4. Amos

    Aug 05, 2014, 21:03 #54858

    I'd hardly call a difference of £3m penny pinching - except in the rarefied bubble of football - even so £3m is still an awful lot of money. The point is that Wenger can't do the deal. It's not in his hands. The lower Wenger suggests he will go now the lower the ultimate 'compensation' will be. He has to get someone to agree to buy and Vermaelen to agree to join someone he can sell to. It's not in the buying clubs interests to do a deal too soon if they think the selling club has to sell or Vermaelen's interests to do a deal too soon either unless it's one he can't refuse - and that won't come, if it does come, until late in the window when buyers and sellers are anxious to get deals done. If the clubs supposedly showing an interest in him are true he's probably not that average a player though must of us would see Mertesacker and Koscielny ahead of him.

  5. Ron

    Aug 05, 2014, 20:13 #54855

    Arsenal aren't going to use Vermaelan Amos, whatever difficulties in defence we face. Hes been ignored many times when hes been fit, or at least as fit as he ever gets.AW clearly hasnt rated him for a long time and stories of a sale occurred last Summer too. The price isnt going to vary much ie 7-10 Mill. No buyer going to get a give away, esp either of the two reported buyers as theyre both desperate for defenders. Wenger cd do the deal tomorrow in all probability if what we read is right and the price will be the same as it would be at the end of the month. Hes an average Joe. Everybody knows that and an average Joe price will do the deal. Wenger is penny pinching again off the back of another one of his litany of chronically bad central defender purchases it appears.

  6. Amos

    Aug 05, 2014, 19:58 #54854

    Vermaelen will be have reached an unprotected period of contract this summer and if his agent has handled his interests properly, then under current player contract laws there is nothing Wenger can do to stop him going if he wants out no matter how much time is left on the contract. As with RvP all he can do is to agree the 'compensation' due, the transfer fee in other words, from any club he joins. If the stories are true not only ManU are in for him but Barca as well. It's in Arsenal's interests to try to set the 'compensation' by encouraging bids from other potentially interested parties - and for those parties to wait as long as possible to see what's really on the table in order to see what they will have to put on the table for Vermaelen. At the same time it's in Vermaelen's interests to wait as long as he can to see what final offers are made. The weakest position among the parties involved is that of AFC.

  7. Bard

    Aug 05, 2014, 19:58 #54853

    Ron; I agree the TVM story is a mystery but its classic Arsenal/Wenger haggling over irrelevancies while the bigger picture get lost. TVM is history and we need to move on. Fred whats with the …… is it another philosophical conundrum for us to ponder or have you got a mild form of OCD.

  8. Ron

    Aug 05, 2014, 19:43 #54852

    Its total Wenger spin Jeff as i see it. I dont think hes any intention at all of buying a centre back. He ll chance his arm with Chambers unless some hard to turn down opportunity falls into his lap. Its about recouping cash spent on Sanchez, plus he wants to be seen to be playing hard with Utd after the RVP sale doesn't he. Its all in his master of illusion role that many still cant see through. Heaven forbid if the Smalling/Jones rumours have any legs mate. Both no better than Vermaelen, though it wdt surprise me if Wengers trying to get one of them to Arsenal.

  9. Fred

    Aug 05, 2014, 19:37 #54851

    ha@ ... hey what a surprise ! ... bard and mg followed my analysis ..... i did try to keep it simple for you ... but to be honest i still reckoned it went straight over your heads... you are pretending to understand ... cos you wouldnt want every one to know you know nothing ... too late for that tho ... lol

  10. jeff wright

    Aug 05, 2014, 19:32 #54850

    Ron, I can't argue with your assessment of Tommy Vermin and if as Wenger claims he is an important player then why is he letting him go is the question.So we can safely assume, as you say, that this is just more spin from Wenger .7m seems a reasonable amount for a player that can't get into an average defence like ours and Wenger should be getting this situation sorted if as he claims he will have to buy a replacement ,instead of dithering around over the money that is involved involved.

  11. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 05, 2014, 19:22 #54849

    Bard, yes it was very informative indeed, so a team has to score more than the other to win, wow you learn something every day.

  12. Ron

    Aug 05, 2014, 19:17 #54848

    Bard - point taken. The teams not really different but in fairness 72 Mill on 2 players in 12 months was a pipe dream 2 years back wasn't it? Its been funded by shedding dross though in large part. Jeff - all this stuff about Vermaelen is cobblers. 'Important member of the squad 'etc etc. The guy is a perma crock whos claim to fame is a few lucky shots in his first few games 4 years back when a starving for a hero Grove crowd took to the guy. Since then hes been a liability. So much so that equally desperate Grove fans have called for him to be magically converted by Wenger into a DM where im pretty sure hed be equally disastrous. Ive read somewhere that Utd are baulking at 10 Mill offering 7 Mill. Arsenal shd snap their hands off while their interested still. Sorry to be blunt, but a sale of him to Utd could assist us in the battle for 4th as he could well weaken them or at least keep them as weak at the back as they are. Why make them buy a proper defender when they can have Vermaelen?

  13. Bard

    Aug 05, 2014, 18:57 #54847

    Fred Welcome back. I've been worried about you. I thought you might have been overwhelmed by having to explain yourself. Your last but one analytical post suggesting that one team scores more than the other was brilliant, incisive and provocative. I look forward to more of the same……..

  14. jeff wright

    Aug 05, 2014, 18:48 #54845

    Westie I can only go by what monsieur Wonga says regarding Tommy Vermin, and let's face if he does join up with Pursie at United then he will be regarded by many as being vermin.Anyway, Wonga him say he may have to flog off Tommy ,thi means of course that he will do in Wonga speak, and if so then he will need to buy another CB - because quote: "He ( Tommy)is a very important member of our squad and will need to be replaced." So we can rule out Chambers being a back up or replacement for Tommy . Now if it is a piddling amount of money that's holding up this important sale /replacement situation then I reiterate that it is just par for the course.It can't really be anything else can it ,if Belgian Tommy wants away and Wenger has agreed to this?

  15. Bard

    Aug 05, 2014, 18:16 #54843

    Amos; Im not quite certain what you are referring to when you say the club have thrown off the chains. Im guessing you mean transfers although I may be wrong. You always seem a very precise poster so Im not sure what you really mean. We have bought a replacement for Sagna. a keeper to replace Fab, We may lose TVM so Chambers becomes our backup CB and Sanchez. By my reckoning Sanchez counts are a valuable addition but thats it. I would hardly class that as throwing off the chains. Im not sure Debuchy fills Sanga's boots and Chambers may or may not be better than TVM. There is an argument that suggests we might actually be weaker than last year in the defensive area. I am hopeful they will sign others but Im not holding my breath.

  16. Fred

    Aug 05, 2014, 18:07 #54842

    hahaha...would a dictionary help mg understand the word their??....bards one wouldnt but it does have pictures in it ....lol

  17. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 05, 2014, 17:50 #54840

    Bard, yes the dictionary's out alright and their pouring over it arguing with each other (in the mirror) over whats the correct spelling never having heard any thing like it before. Or maybe their back over on arseblog trying to find out if any one can help them out there providing their not debating paint drying.

  18. Westlower

    Aug 05, 2014, 17:13 #54839

    @Jeff, My experience of working with Europeans & Yanks is that they tend to haggle longer & harder than Brits. I guess it's in Wenger's dna to get best price, whether buying or selling. So much smoke & mirrors surrounding each deal and clubs/agents 'leak' whatever info suits them best to put pressure on the other party. If we believe whats currently being reported, AFC want more for TV than what's being offered, Khedira wants more wages than we're prepared to pay & Carvalho's club want more than he's worth due to dual ownership. I'm afraid we're well into the transfer silly season & Sky haven't got their teeth into yet with last day dramas.

  19. Bard

    Aug 05, 2014, 16:59 #54838

    really good post Ron. I get the point made by Amos and agree in principle. but as you point out its not the deal being sold by the club. Somewhere along the line the club got greedy. You cannot charge the season ticket prices Arsenal charge and expect everyone to be happy plodding along at 4th spot. Where I disagree with Amos is that i dont think it will take much for things to turn very nasty indeed. MG do you think Fred and Pete are still reading Amos post with the help of the dictionary. My worry is that Pete has been detained at her majestys on account of giving a non believer one of those embraces he was describing.

  20. Ron

    Aug 05, 2014, 16:59 #54837

    Fair points Amos - im just glad my days as a diehard were in another era, that i can say with certainty. So many valid points both for and against the Clubs methods exist today though, shaped admittedly by current social mores/expectations and trends. Im pretty sure other Clubs fans don't debate them to death like us lot either? Its everybody to their own isn't it. For what its worth i personally think the Club have spun the spun for far too long and hence i dont go anymore, or very rarely go to home games. They needed to spin it for a couple of years. I understand that. As for trophy, glory demands, i reckon ive abdicated from being able to do that for the simple reason i no longer put the cash in to properly 'support' the Club. I can see why many of the regulars do though i have to say.

  21. Amos

    Aug 05, 2014, 16:36 #54836

    The 'agitators' haven't been asked to accept anything we haven't experienced to a much worse degree before Ron. It's only relative mediocrity which would be relative success to far and away the majority of PL club supporters. As for 2nd or 3rd rate players we've had more than our share of those as well as 4th and 5th rate players in the past. I do think we overstate these so called 'promises' about the future that the club has supposedly given. The reasoning behind the new stadium was always practical and pretty easy to follow along with need for the ability to better compete financially and that being dependent on increasing our revenues to get closer to the revenue generation of ManU. If the 'agitators' couldn't follow that reasoning and its implications then I don't see it as the club's fault. There were no promises other than that increased revenues would enable us to compete better than if we didn't seek to increase our revenues. If that was a promise then even Usmanov can apparently now see that the club has delivered on it. I don't think the club needs to issue an apology any more than 'agitators' need to apologise for their failure to understand what they were being told. Either way whether the club are accused of setting their sights too high or lacking ambition won't matter too much for those with the energy and interest to agitate. Those whose energies and interests lean that way will always find a reason to do so. Similarly the club doesn't have it's head in a noose. Quite the opposite in fact as its seems to be enjoying throwing off some chains.

  22. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 05, 2014, 16:28 #54835

    BADARSE, whats all this talk of the thrill of the chase and the moment the prey is secured, surely your not advocating blood sports?

  23. jeff wright

    Aug 05, 2014, 16:22 #54833

    Westie,the plot hatched by Diamond Danny,who is now lying in his cold grave in tax exile in Swissland, and Dave Dein , was to use the higher resources made from the new stadium to buy top players and pay their wages with to help us win trophies, such as the European Cup and the Prem . I just googled some old statements made back in the mists of time regarding that. This so called sustainability is really just more smoke and mirrors malarkey. The European Cup money still plays a big part in the club's finances and the Tommy Vermin situation shows that frugality regarding the bigger piture is still alive and kicking with Wenger . According to reports Wenger haggling like an old French tart with a punter over how much want away Tommy is worth. Monsiure Wonga wants 10m for him and has only been offered 7m, so this in football terms piddling amount is , if the story is true,and judged on similar situations in the past it probably is, then this is being allowed to impact on our pre-season and the start of it.

  24. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 05, 2014, 16:18 #54832

    R/K, your well ard.

  25. BADARSE

    Aug 05, 2014, 15:47 #54830

    Historical fact number one: Most of Custer's men died from wounds in the back-running from the enemy. Historical fact number two: I have never witnessed westlower run from anyone on the Onlinegooner. Has anyone seen my socks? One's red, the other's yellow. True I have an identical pair downstairs under the sink, but the missing pair were second hand, those under the sink are second foot.

  26. Ron

    Aug 05, 2014, 15:47 #54829

    Hi Amos - Agree with you from a personal perspective but i would say that in the 'agitators' favour that the last 8 years marks a sea change in conditions for fans being asked to meekly accept long periods of trophy drought that such as you and i got used used to as the norm as kids (i know the FAC has been won of course). They've been asked to accept mediocrity in an era of scandalous ticket charges being raised by a Club that outwardly claims to be a rival to the traditional NW powerhouses (plus Chelsea and Man City). This was never the case in days of old. Arsenal were just good old Arsenal in their neat little classy abode, yet were still a Club seeking to sign the best calibre players in the main, not 2nd and 3rd rate ones as occurs so often now. Pre 2006 today's agitators would have been rightly seen as loons. Not so now.It was Arsenal who more or less promised that parity with Utd would emerge from a ground shift, not the agitators. Arsenal now have the duty to fulfil their rather wild promise and to do it quickly in my view. For my part,for the record, an apology would suffice. An honest admission that their sights were set far too high and that parity isn't attainable and that as a Club they cant, perhaps even wont be trying to reach it.This should be coupled with an admission to reduce the debt to minimum levels and a further admission that lower level players must be accepted as being the norm now and that ticket prices will reflect such a Club and not reflect a Club with a higher bar. Arsenal created their own noose with their own bombastic claims back in 1999/2000 when this plan was hatched. If they cant produce after 9 years, its fair in my view that they need to fess up or at least change things which is after all what the agitators want.

  27. BadArse Hubbard

    Aug 05, 2014, 15:44 #54828

    I can see clearly now/The engrams have gone.

  28. BADARSE

    Aug 05, 2014, 15:29 #54827

    Had an uncle name of Matthew, he was his father's pride and joy, then he left for the Dark Side of the Moon. Lots of mushrooms grow there in the dark, but the toast floats away before you can butter it properly. The moral of the story is always remember which side of the moon the bread's buttered. Where's me socks?

  29. Amos

    Aug 05, 2014, 15:12 #54825

    The club has only won the title 13 times in its 125 plus year history Ron - a 90% failure rate but still a good bit better than most so I don't see that a failure to win the title or the CL 'pretty quickly' is really going to cause any great storms. As you say those with the energy and interest to agitate aren't going to lose interest in agitating if we win one title or one CL in the next few seasons. I think we have to accept that there will always be noise around the club - sometimes it might be louder than others and sometimes quieter but even if we win the title there'll be those unhappy if we haven't won back to back titles. There'll be those unhappy that we haven't won the CL no matter how many domestic trophies we win. Win a domestic double and there'll be those unhappy that we haven't won a treble. When will all supporters be universally happy with the club? Never. Does it matter greatly? No not really. It's easier now to complain, and for your complaint to be heard, than when obliged to write a letter to Herbert Chapman if you were unhappy with the direction of the club, but probably no more effective.

  30. Westie Denver

    Aug 05, 2014, 14:48 #54824

    Country road/Take me home/To the place/I belong.

  31. julesd

    Aug 05, 2014, 14:27 #54823

    What if, Hokey Cokey, really is what it's all about?

  32. Westie Custer.

    Aug 05, 2014, 14:27 #54822

    Rockie Mountain High. Colorado. Rocky Mountain High.

  33. Ron

    Aug 05, 2014, 14:19 #54821

    Westie - for those who've the energy and interest to 'agitate' it changes nothing surely? All of that false diplomacy and posturing that you seem to be some what smugly and naively holding up as your new gospel wont count for much if the Club doesn't win the title, or at least the CL and do it pretty quickly. If it doesn't happen, Mr Wenger will eventually be hounded out, though only as far as the Boardroom and those shares will be changing hands quicker than you can shout sustainability. The bigger issue is what will those of you contented do with your flimsy hallowed status quo, if the Club doesn't shape up? Do you just preach from your new gospel like a Maoist with your red book, as your doing now or when and even if do you start to question your own loyalty to endemic failure? Finger wagging and asking pointed, accusatory questions of others with whom you vehemently disagree is fine as long as you're standing on stable terra firma yourself.

  34. Bard

    Aug 05, 2014, 14:02 #54819

    Westie. where it leaves us is exactly where we were last season but with greater expectations heaped on the great man. With no financial excuses the ball is firmly in his court. Stand and deliver. As I have said before, I will be happy not getting spanked this year and of course the obligatory 4th place.

  35. Westlower

    Aug 05, 2014, 13:55 #54818

    Further comments from the 'Darky Moony' story with the richest man in UK & Russia. Usmanov's appreciation for Wenger - he describes the Frenchman as "a genius" is well documented, but his supportive words for the current directors is perhaps surprising. Both Usmanov & Kroenke are adamant that their investment is long term, on both sides, every indication is that their Arsenal shares will remain in their respective families for another generation. "I have warm and, in my view, good relationships with a number of the board members." The story also highlights that Arsenal's debt peaked at £318m, with an annual interest rate of £20m, but is now under £100m. Where does that leave the agitating Dark Moonies vision for the future of AFC? You couldn't make it up Jeff (yawn).

  36. Amos

    Aug 05, 2014, 13:51 #54817

    @Bard.I suppose it is a philosophical issue but which philosophy? If the issue is would you rather have success that can be enduring - sustainable to use the popular description - or success that is dependent on one person's ability or willingness to continue to underwrite that success then there's a philosophical consideration there. It's always been clear what Arsenal's philosophy has been and Usmanov appears to now agree that it has put us where he would want us to be. Philosophies are just a set of principles and while I've no doubt that there are Pompey supporters who think their brief flirtation with PL football and a FAC win has been worth all that has happened subsequently I'm sure there will be others among them who may wish that it could have been achieved more in Wigan fashion. Money in the bank might not do it for you but no money in the bank will probably do even less.

  37. jjetplane

    Aug 05, 2014, 13:00 #54814

    So there is Stan in his balaclava wandering around Manhattan firing mushrooms at the onlookers and WESTIE (chief reporter at the TORYgraph) is saying 'best run business in the world ... our mushrooms have a lot of spirit and when they have grown you can see we sell them to all the top top supermarkets/clubs enabling us to buy our own mushrooms which we can then sell on so Stan can stop wearing that clown face and go back up that hill where he can meet a famous mushroom taster....'. The thing is - does this make Stan harder than PETE? MGuIRE - believe me, you are well hard geeeze ... Back to Poster rankings pre-season. Got Geoff and Ron neck to neck while AMOS deals with the numbers zzzzzzzzzzzz .........

  38. BADARSE

    Aug 05, 2014, 12:50 #54813

    Words full of wisdom, and very informative Kashky. radfordkennedy there is a thing called symbiosis. Two separate organisms which combine for mutual benefits. Sometimes it can be bacteria, living and feeding off a creature which in turn protects the host. Not really parasites, but each gaining from the relationship in different ways. That's how I see SK and our club. It won't change anything but might help to soften the realisation. Liked your quote fella. Bard, there is no substitute for winning a trophy. I am sure that view would be upheld by all, despite opponents claims to the contrary. There is nothing quite like the thrill of the chase, except for that immediate moment when the prey is secured. Many confuse rational and logical evaluations of circumstances if the decisive view doesn't match their own, or a greater or lesser value is placed on something. Have you ever visited the Gulbenkian Theatre, is it your thing, or are you banned, ha ha.

  39. Ron

    Aug 05, 2014, 12:43 #54812

    R/K - I know mate. It was always just one big smokescreen. That whole ground shift was only ever to make money for the few. AW is in my view just a stunted and willing agent, well regarded (at least while he tows the line) and very well paid and hence well silenced, whos own cash benefits will soon follow once hes installed as a Director, Sit Matt Busby style, though a poor imitation of that man. The man is some thing of a fraud. No career pride left, he took the 'Kings shilling'. The frugality message though is one that they've peddled and sold and its certainly sucked the majority in though as you oft see on here. We should all admit though, that we ve all been taken in at one stage or another Its exactly the bulls--te you mention that which has sickened and turned me away from it all. Pure and simple. PS Im still weak enough though to do my 3-5 away games per season as and when a cheapie ticket comes my way, but thats more about a day out with the lads ive known for decades as for the football Arsenal offer up which in truth isnt very enthralling and hasnt been for 10 years. I always smile at the 'its the way Arsenal play football' stuff that is trotted out. What a myth that is. The footballs often putrid in its sterility and even laughable at times. We do have a damn good day out though!! Don't miss the home games at all. Cant stand the Stadium or perhaps more to the point the type of 'fan' that its attracted post 2006. It represents all that i cant stand about what the Clubs morphed into, but worse still represents the big con that football has become.

  40. jjetplane

    Aug 05, 2014, 12:34 #54811

    But of course BT are doing a series of ads so the pressure is shared among the top bods. As media technology increases they will reach biblical proportion and all the narrative strands will one one or another. Big picture being BT are just a new rat on the football block and I guess if my views were major holdings they and Sky and the current PL would sink without trace. In my 60s recollections when you would paste players up on the historical flowered wallpaper of a very shared bedroom you would see Citeh, Everton, Liverpool and the rest up there with the Arsenal. Liverpool are a massive club and if they improve and Arsenal don't - well just wait for the next BT campaign.

  41. radfordkennedy

    Aug 05, 2014, 12:16 #54810

    BADARSE....Very true pal,a true patriot is someone ready to defend his country against its government...Ron what really sticks in my throat is that we were fed the self sustaining,cut our cloth cobblers and how he was sailing the good ship arsenal through stormy fiscal waters and that we would be the envy of the football world with our frugal business plan,when all the while he was stock piling our cash to make it easier for him to borrow more money using us as colateral..would we be liable if his investments went belly up?,honestly mate if this turns out to be true I will not give him another penny of my hard earned and sadly will not attend another game till that greedy b#stard has gone,weve put up with second rate players so he can buy himself another ranch or whatever,im not a violent man believe me but I could quite easily draw him one off right on the chin.b#stard

  42. BADARSE

    Aug 05, 2014, 12:02 #54806

    maguiresbridge, I wouldn't allow my clowns to try to hurt you in any way at all except, with tickling sticks. You are a good lad just slightly misdirected, but I remain hopeful of a cure for Dark Moonyism. The road we are studying is that of micro bots. Tiny remedial pieces of technology introduced into the bloodstream with the clarifying effect of changing genetic blueprints. The only disarming aspect to this might be the fact that the tiny bots resemble Arsene Wenger. Still, come my dear friend, hear the tambourines, come into the light, we are making a space for you on the hill, your mantra is, 'One Arsene Wenger.', now join with me in a few 'Arry's.

  43. Bard

    Aug 05, 2014, 11:56 #54804

    Baddie, I do get that. But who is to say if Abramovich left someone else with mega bucks wouldnt come in a buy it and continue to spend. I take your point there are only variations on the same theme. My point is that Arsenal and some fans somehow think the higher moral ground constitutes a trophy in itself. MG, loved it. Pete and Fred probably still struggling with Amos post about bonds and share issues. In financial terms Amos is hard beyond belief. And anyone who argues with that will get sorted next time I see them, know what I mean.

  44. Ron

    Aug 05, 2014, 11:35 #54802

    R/K - Do ducks float on water? Any other story than yours would be a massive surprise or indeed, more a venture into cloud cuckoo land mate. I can only speak for me, but its this aspect of modern football that turned me away from it. I am still an Arsenal follower but my sentiment for the Club and for football generally has all but gone. Knowing as i do the framework still there at Everton and im sure there are others of such an ilk, i envy their fans while it lasts having such as Bill Kenwright at their helm. Innocent and naive many of us at other Clubs shout to them. Why not i say. Football is the loser for the inroads that the Kroenkes, Glazers and RA s et al have brought to bear upon it. One day, this model of ownership, propped up by its media fueled frenzy will be seen as the evil that killed a game stone dead. Its dying already, but as foolish romanticised fans, we obscure what we really know from what we actually see. Its a bit of a misnomer to try and distinguish models like Arsenals from those such as Chelsea too. The ends are identical, its the means that differ but only very slightly.

  45. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 05, 2014, 11:35 #54803

    Bard, i know him he's well hard, i'm 6ft 2 and also well hard every body crosses the road when they see me except the small clowns in BADARSE'S circus they kick the crap out of me all the time but i'm still well hard.

  46. jeff wright

    Aug 05, 2014, 11:02 #54801

    RK, Stan is a big fan of the Glazers who have taken a fortune out of United.He runs a multi-sports club empire and like the Glazers robs Peter to pay Paul when the need arises ,while ensuring that his investments are safe and well .So it would not be the biggest surprise in the world if the story about these shenanigans that you mention were true. In Dreamland of course Stan is a paragon of virtue and a shining example to the youth of the world.

  47. BADARSE

    Aug 05, 2014, 10:59 #54800

    Why so surprised radfordkennedy? Look our government would wave the flag for a war, (they might sanitise it by calling it a conflict), and at the first opportunity begin trading with the recent enemy. It's all sham my friend. Kroenke is a businessman from the USA. That simple sentence should be enough, it is for me. It should at least put you on your guard, and you never lower your guard if you see the object as a threat, and I do. Even if you are a footie man like Abramovitch, and he has created a bond with the Chavs for sure, he is first and foremost a businessman, and always will be. If he walked away, and he could at anytime, Chelsea would go 'broke'. Fancy placing yourself in someone else's hands like that,(even for ten trophies Bard). Not pleasant reading though chum, it kind of puts us in our place, which is basically nowhere, though it does leave me on the hill.

  48. radfordkennedy

    Aug 05, 2014, 10:44 #54798

    Morning all..a pal text me this morning to tell me that a report on the radio has suggested that the real reason Kronke has sanctioned the selling of top players with little in the way of investment in return and indeed hardly drawing a salary,is not as I suspected to asset strip and receive maximum profits for minimum investment,but apparently AFC are currently worth $1 billion on the nyse,and hes been using us as a hub asset to borrow exstensively against for other business interests,it just goes to show how little he cares about football and our great club and how he has nothing but contempt for all of us...assuming this is all true of course,did anyone else hear this report

  49. Bard

    Aug 05, 2014, 10:35 #54797

    Interesting Amos. However there is a philosophical issue. During that time Chelsea have won 10 trophies including the CL. As a supporter which would you rather have. No sure money in the bank does it for me.

  50. BADARSE

    Aug 05, 2014, 10:30 #54796

    The threads on this article just go on and on. To give a little indication of the ulterior motives involved in all around, get a bit of this. I said way back to HibbeeGooner that Scotland would not be allowed to leave the Union-Money/Power/Stability-and the development is moving comfortably in that direction. The Pro Union vote is in the driving seat as expected, even the Games and Fringe hasn't swayed the vote, but it is too close for the power men. The 'face to face' meeting is imminent and the Grey men are uneasy about Salmond's charisma, so the character assassinations begin, 'women are uncomfortable with his driving force personality' etc. They are stepping up the anti by offering sweetners galore. It will be enough to see the favourite home first. People want independence, but are fearful of change, just in case. It is another factor in agendas Ron, and helps the men holding the cards to decide how to play them. A desire in this instance can be created.

  51. Ron

    Aug 05, 2014, 10:19 #54795

    Hi Badarse. Me and your good self arent so far apart on most things mate. Those on here whove seen us spat now and again just dont recognise it. The trouble with such as you and me is that we usually think too much about stuff! Reality is that there are those like me and those like you and Westie and others like Bard, SKG and R/K and JJ and Chris, Amos and Co plus a few others that ive missed and apologise for doing so between whos views you wouldn't squeeze a razor blade in. Jeff too, with his patch over his eye and ever and ready slashing cutlass has excellent views, though dressed in a different attire, but hes not so far away either it seems to me. Jeff is one with a loud voice who scares others on cosier places and of less brave views, but much of his opinion carries weight as i see it.

  52. Ron

    Aug 05, 2014, 10:03 #54794

    Westie - if nothing else Usmanov is a deft politician, which also means that he s a chameleon. He will say that which you've quoted now of course, as he needs to portray a softer stance so to advance his underlying designs by stealth rather than his better known sabre rattling. Make no mistake, he's maybe revised his position money/funding wise in the light of the economic down turn that he and many of his ilk have had to do, but his underlying intent and i would suggest also, his view of the present regime hasn't altered one iota. If the Clubs fortunes do start to waver any distance from where they are now, he ll be growling like the old bear that he is before you and i can blink.Hes a bear with a big thorn in his foot via having no Board placement. Like or loathe him, he should be on the Board with the extent of his holdings too. That he isnt, is a mark of the fear and dread that Stan and Co plus Wenger himself have of him. One day, he ll own Arsenal. What he ll do with it is anybody's guess. It could be catastrophic, but history will show that this crew in the Boardroom have handled him completely incorrectly. There's an old saying that you keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. Such iconic greats as President Lincoln once in power showed this in its ultimate form as he drew the teeth of those better placed and arguably more able than he, by co opting them as opposed to ostracising them. Kroenke and Co should heed and be wary of Usmanovs stance as portrayed in the Telegraph (hardly the ,most daring of papers, though ive not read it as its the Daily Mail but wearing a Saville Row suit!). Believe me, they preferred him as he was. Even they understood that.

  53. jeff wright

    Aug 05, 2014, 9:59 #54793

    So does money spent equate success in football ? History suggests that it makes it more likely,but not certain. The manager,players and old lady luck also play a part. Also these days there are a number of clubs with money to burn, the head to head games in the Prem and in Europe between the top managers and their teams will again decide who wins what. Athletico turned over the la liga duo last season and Liverpool joined the gang of four in the Prem at United's expense. It will be interesting to see if Athletico and Liverpool can repeat their heroics again, probably not, I suspect the usual suspects in la liga and in the Prem will all be back on parade again .Wage bills over a period of time transform into league positions ,the trick is for a manager to punch above his weight in the dog fight at the top of the league table and in Europe. Boring( yawn) business plans will not play a part in this scenario,although they do make managers richer and shareholders and that's the main reason for these plans . The Uzbek and other ex-soviet types however,who are not short of few roubles invest their money in football clubs in the UK for reasons other than to just make money or to win trophies.

  54. BADARSE

    Aug 05, 2014, 9:54 #54792

    Morning 24601 and Amos. Nice reading. I have a feeling us three could be trapped in a lift for eight hours and still come out as a friendly trio. Mushrooms! We went to see friends a few years ago in a little village just north of Marseilles. The mushroom picking season had arrived. There and probably elsewhere in France people find their mushrooms in the forest and closely guard the secret. The next season they beetle off to their secret cache, just ripe for picking. I remember the chap, a fireman, bringing a hot bowl of cooked mushrooms to the table in the garden. They were red, meaty and absolutely divine. The juice ran like blood. We ate them with dry fresh baguette from the village baker's. Simple, but what a delightful repast. Mushrooms on toast Bard, wonderful. Calum Chambers reminded me of the young Tone. Ron what a good response, thank you. I would offer this though. Liverpool did indeed win 5 titles before Shankly, but in the early years. 4 before we even registered on the board, by the early 20's, then a quarter of a century gap before the 5th around WW2. It was another two barren decades before the bandwagon with Shankly at the helm began. Since Shankly's arrival they have won 36. So 5-36 is the tally. Yet well done to them anyway, and yes the Sours would like that record. Of course Murdoch didn't create anti-monarchism, I am living proof. Generally governments, TV, corporations, and even football clubs feed off what is evidentially present. They dress it up, make it cosmetically attractive, socially acceptable and spoon feed (sell?) it back to the population. Those on the outskirts get sucked into the eddy. All developments are evolutionary and our geographic location is inherently different to Liverpool's. They have a rival, if you discount Tranmere. We have a legion of London clubs to contend with and due to the passage we took alienated a large proportion of the conservative south, the rest is history, as they say. I think we are closer in approach than your response suggests, I think we are roughly in agreement, I just used a shorthand style to get the bullet points across.

  55. Westlower

    Aug 05, 2014, 9:08 #54791

    @Bard, I wholeheartedly agree we need a powerhouse figure as DM, but in the absence of one, Chambers maybe an option. Looking back on his early career it's his natural position. He won't improve by sitting on the bench & age was no barrier to Adams, Fabregas, Charlie George, Radford & Brady. Sometimes players can surprise given the opportunity.

  56. Bard

    Aug 05, 2014, 9:07 #54790

    Badarse, yes I had my mushrooms but with tomatoes and toast. They didnt have quite the same effect as the infamous magic ones but they did the job. Westie I can believe you buy into all that newspaper claptrap. What did you think Usmanov would say. He never says anything without positioning himself for a takeover. I do love this new name the Dark Moonies its so much better than the AMGs, it conjures up images of the Pink Floyd an all those other psychodelic bands of the 70s, who were essentially crap unless you were out of your head on mushrooms.

  57. Amos

    Aug 05, 2014, 8:57 #54789

    Usmanov doesn't say specifically what his option to debt would have been. Increasing the equity is one route but on the scale of the stadium finance disproportionate to the business so a partial route only. Abramovich has converted some debt to equity but CFC's ultimate holding company Fordstam Ltd still owes Abramovich the best part of £900m for which in theory repayment can be demanded within 18 months hence Chelsea has more debt even though equity has been increased. If Usmanov had considered financing the stadium through equity, which is less flexible than the bonds which ultimately funded much of the costs, while at the same time putting money into the club to buy more players and pay them more wages than we did through the previous 10 years then we would have still ended up with debt probably greater than we have now but it would simply have been owed to Usmanov instead of those investing in bonds. Fiszman, Hill-Wood and company and the current administration have created a football club that isn't in hock to anyone. AFC doesn't exist because Abramovich or Mansour or Usmanov permits it to, it exists because it can stand up all by itself. History will recognise the importance of that. It's already obliging Usmanov to try to rewrite his paragraph in it.

  58. jeff wright

    Aug 05, 2014, 8:46 #54788

    lee love arsene fc ,if you don't like my posts why do you read them and keep commenting in your brain-dead way on them ? Have you learned the difference between Brazil and Gaza yet ? When I need advice from a half wit like you I will ask for it.

  59. Westlower

    Aug 05, 2014, 8:27 #54787

    EnLIGHTening interview for the Dark Moonies to read in today's Daily Telegraph with AFC'S 2nd biggest shareholder Usmanov. "The club is very well placed to succeed. I think we will begin a new era for AFC where we win trophies. That is most important for football. In my opinion, in line with the existing rules, the club has the correct decision-making process in place, including their selection policy, especially now, when they have the means to buy the best players. The board & main shareholders chose the debt option at the time, which led to AFC going almost 10 years without a trophy. As a result of this choice, they were selling players & were unable to buy top players. Those difficulties have now been overcome & the team is in a good state; the clubs finances are in order & I believe AW & CEO (IG) will manage them correctly. I have no plans to exit. I wish Arsenal success & hope that they win trophies." Much noise was made by those seeking a revolution at AFC about getting rid of Stan & co, replacing him with Usmanov in a brave new world. It's hard to detect from this interview that he would have made any radical changes if he was in charge. In fact, he seems to condone the way the club has been run since the move from Highbury. Has he softened his views on the running of the club or was he misunderstood in the past decade? Who is rich enough to buyout Stan & Usmanov to give birth to the revolution? Perhaps there is a mega-rich, mushroom eating, tax avoiding, alien living on the Dark side of the Moon?

  60. Ron

    Aug 05, 2014, 8:09 #54786

    Morning Badarse - a few good points there but youve afforded 'friend' Murdock (you know where i stand with him and his like mate) a platform he doesn't deserve. the 1960s spawned a freedom of thought and encouraged challenge as we at last had (to an extent) emerged from the war time shackles and the old rigid social mores that were there since Victorian times and of course for centuries before then. Murdocks rag didnt create anti monarchism at all, he just fed off it as his type do and created an illusion that the concept was his. Information was also becoming more freely available to people too and so people felt happy to challenge the old lines of authority. There were in any event many anti monarchists well before he arrived with his dubious wares. On the Liverpool front, i cant be totally sure but i think you ll find they had won 5 or 6 titles before Bill Shankly arrived there. Thats as many as most Clubs would like to have up to the present date, inc our friends from N17!There are many, many 1000s of older Liv fans. The Club became more widely supported beyond the confines of the NW from the 60s though as the media carried their message via Shanklys obvious charismatic powers. Such has been its strength that your perception of them has led you to think that they barely existed before 1964. To be honest and in credit to AW and the Clubs bosses at Arsenal, despite our glorious history there wasnt much of a pro sentiment or even much interest in Arsenal top side of the M25 until the mid 90s, so ironically the Club has TV to thank as well for the fact that the media latched onto what Wenger had brought to the party in the same way as had happened with Shankly all those years before. Unfortunately youre mistaken on Livs history there. The media simply latched on to what he had already put there for them to feed off. Media outlets dont create appetites, it filches off whats on the menu already and then tells you that it was the chef. A mainly docile society either runs with the ball theyre thrown by it or the more discerning throw it back. Thankfully there are a quite a few amongst us with the energy to keep fighting back the tide, though social media and the lemmings who run their shallow lives through that now make the task far harder don't you think? Not trying to pee on your party mate, but just thought id drop in and add to an interesting topic that you've raised.

  61. BADARSE

    Aug 05, 2014, 7:30 #54785

    Morning Tinman. My Dad. He was an extremely fair man who must have loved explaining to us kids the different sides of a discussion. He would often tell us negative aspects of a group, person or concept which we and he supported by way of balance. His persona and platform was a fundamental one of equality. Privilege is fine, never be against wealth but against poverty. Reading and talking with others led to a natural organic separation. At the bottom of the argument the Royals are people and deserve respect, not vilification. Oh and a newspaper magnet would naturally attract, a newspaper magnate has to use more devious ways. Ah, here comes the sun-and I always hear the Beatle intro when I say/think that, and often sing it to myself. The neighbours love my singing, when I start to sing they break my windows so that they can hear me better.

  62. A Cornish Gooner

    Aug 05, 2014, 7:21 #54784

    BADARSE. Who or what influenced you to become anti-monarchist 'as soon as you were old enough to spell it'

  63. BADARSE

    Aug 05, 2014, 6:50 #54783

    Good morning gentlefolk, I have me 'telligent 'ead on today,(at least for now). It is an interesting study Pete, beyond the plain facts. Someone with a loud voice, or it could be intimidating tactics can often hold sway over people. If you are a media magnet you can set your own agenda, this can even reshape society-I am certain it happened with the uncouth Murdoch and the Sun newspaper. The Royal family were on a pedestal until that 'rag' arrived on the scene. I was an anti-monarchist as soon as I was old enough to be able to spell it. I was alone, or at least a rarity. After the flicks we had to stand for the National Anthem. I didn't, or if able I walked out. That took bottle as everyone gave disapproving looks. Little by little the outlook softened then Murdoch came to town. His 'rag' gave him a loud voice. He changed attitudes and suddenly many were anti-monarchy. When spoken to there was little or no principle involved, they were anti just because the monarchy had been vilified by the Republican Murdoch. I wanted to distance myself from these people, having distanced myself from the conservative Royalists I found myself in the middle. Much in society since those salad days has pushed me into a similar situation. Nowadays people are 'against' for either the wrong reasons, or flimsy ones. Occasionally for the correct ones. The media lionises some and assassinates others. Liverfool have been well-supported for years. It naturally received a powerful push as success came. A fan over 55 is a rarity, they didn't become successful until the mid-sixties, so 50 years of catching youngsters. Then the status quo was set. Ex-players have promoted them as TV pundits until viewers believed everything said was true. This phenomenon was warned of in Orwell's 'Animal Farm', slowly brainwashing the animals, planting thoughts that the creatures believed to be their own, then it seemed as if this view was written in stone, it became unshakable. Anyone with an alternative view, or different take became disloyal or a 'nut'. This current promotion by BT is small potato, but a frightening aspect of the power of those who influence and control. Now for a second cuppa Rosie. Incidentally my Dad was in the running for a place for the Berlin Olympics as a junior amateur wrestler. He never went-was seriously injured, but left for Spain instead a short while later, joining the International Brigade.

  64. Pete

    Aug 04, 2014, 23:30 #54782

    BADARSE you know the routine by now.Liverpool are the super club,with super fans who play super football and as the WOB keep telling us a super duper tactical genius for a manager.All their ex players tell us how super they are and their history is super too.So unlike the spuds they don't have to change their super history or make stuff up.On the downside I have never met a scouser who can beat me at an arm wrestle,or heard of a player who would actually like to play for them.

  65. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 22:12 #54781

    I've gone off mushrooms! On the way to town approaching the Blackwall Tunnel we saw a BT poster, was Arsenal men in disarray having conceded a goal to jubilant Liverfool players. Then saw a slightly different one near the Olympic Stadium-AFC were the mugs again. Not nice. Have gone off BT's too, including Warren.

  66. Timothy Leary

    Aug 04, 2014, 22:01 #54780

    DW THOMAS Please keep to the thread you have been given and somebody give BADARSE a few mushrooms or we may lose him to the dark side. Experiments have been conducted using footballers where they try to run with a ball while chewing peyote beans. It has concluded that the spirit is with them.

  67. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 21:40 #54779

    Bard, you know I like you-as you are a fun gi, did you have my mushrooms?

  68. I am Sailing.

    Aug 04, 2014, 21:25 #54778

    Ooh .... You are naughty .... But I like you.

  69. Pete

    Aug 04, 2014, 21:08 #54777

    Bard:I never hit Gooners,I save that pleasure for spuds,mancs and Paras.What I do is humble them, by what I call hulk throwing or embracing.They soon get the message chum.

  70. Bard

    Aug 04, 2014, 20:51 #54776

    Westie, Ron Chambers is one for the future not for now. How many 19 year olds are integral to the top sides, none to my mind. Its buying into the old bull about building for the future. Put him up against Toure and he would get destroyed. We desperately need power and strength in the centre of the park to make an impact. Currently we have no one but Flamini, who I love but is a liability at best. I hope all the rumours about a DM are true.

  71. DW Thomas

    Aug 04, 2014, 20:25 #54775

    Anyone notice how long this thread has gotten? Wonder why. Those for and against Wenger, it all really makes no difference in the end as he is here to stay despite,our opinions as long as results are ok. And that is my biggest issue, just being ok or just good enough. After Sanchez's arrival, it really doesn't feel like we've added much to improve. Debuchey, though younger will have a tough time replacing Sagna, a proven lion! As the cliche goes, only time will tell.amfew observations from the EC. Miquel looked bullied. He still does not look ready. Where was Diaby? Couldn't he even play 15 to 20 minutes? We better be ready for QPR! Make effort, not excuses Arsene! It's not even the real season and already his excuses are flying. Even if true, winners don't constantly moan about them. And as for tactics, the season will show if he gets any right! City in the Comm. Shield will be his first chance. We must avoid a thumping in that or it's just Ground Hog day again! Can't speak for all AMGs as some like to label us, bt like Ron said, I will cheer the man should he prove us wrong and show he is a different, changed manager! We can only HOPE!

  72. Bard

    Aug 04, 2014, 20:24 #54774

    Pete; my brother is 6'5", which if Ive read the post correctly is an inch bigger than you, and he used to eat gravel for breakfast. His hobby was banging his head against a wall but he never blinked, He was well 'ard. Do you think he was 'arder than you Pete? He used to bash anyone who didn't agree with him. He couldn't win an argument to save his life but boy was he hard.

  73. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 19:56 #54773

    radfordkennedy, you got my oyster mushrooms, me old salt?

  74. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 04, 2014, 19:42 #54772

    BADARSE, button mushrooms? good one, and no doubt, but lets not go there. Quip of the day material there.

  75. Pete

    Aug 04, 2014, 19:16 #54771

    I used to have Six very vocal AMG's who USED to sit near me at the Emirates.. Mysteriously year by year they started to disappear, now there is only one! Where have all my friends gone? I used to love cuddling them when Arsenal scored.

  76. Hate Man United

    Aug 04, 2014, 19:16 #54770

    Man U are back. Van Gaal looks like a fergie incarnation. They are signing Vidal who is as good as Yaya probably better. RVP, Rooney, Vidal, Mata wow. They are also after Arda Turan and Reus two class players. I hate Man U they are powerful. It will be them chavs and Citeh for the title. With us and Liverpool for 4th who are better than us. It will be a miracle if we finish fourth.

  77. Ron

    Aug 04, 2014, 18:50 #54769

    Westie - the Carvallho story wont go away will it as you say. On the Khadira stuff, ive an inkling that hes a bit of an injury risk and that we could pay a lot for him and see little in return. Maybe all the talk of him though is really just agent speak as he tries to force a better deal out of RM.

  78. Ron

    Aug 04, 2014, 18:37 #54768

    Hi Westie - I think Chambers is at risk of being a 'Wenger hybrid' mate as i mentioned re Walcott and JW situ's earlier. Not good to see. I see him as a RB to be honest who can play in a game in favourable circ's at CB. a bit like Chelsea s player (the Saurez bite victim) - cant think of his name now! I think this Debuchy is short term and is there to plug a gap for a while that AW didnt want to fill right now. I reckon young Chambers was always going to be bought but as an intended and gradual Sagna replacement. JW or Arteta? I d go for Arteta right. I think Wilsheres all at sea with his game and career and he really lacks discipline to play DM in a way that we need right now. MA has his critics but hes a great professional, though his best years were as a deeper lying creator at Everton werent they. Interested to see how Ox C develops, as you are. Hes got some power that we lack and hes right to bring him into midfield as you feel, its a question of when and how isnt it.We are desperate for a DM with nous and strength. Who is there though? The player needs to be one of a more disciplined and defensive ilk such as Mascherano used to be and there seems few about in fairness to Wenger.

  79. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 18:23 #54767

    jeff wright-you got the shiitake ones?

  80. Lamps

    Aug 04, 2014, 18:14 #54766

    Shut it Wenger!

  81. Fred

    Aug 04, 2014, 18:13 #54765

    hahaha!.... another poor stale cliché ridden effort from jeff wright ... wenger dont do tactics .... ex players say this ex players say that ... europe blah blah ... chelsea city .. more money less money ... french stereotype ... same scenario with jeff and co and they play to the same old script .... its this rigid predictability and old fashioned ideas that has resulted in amgs failure to get the managers head trophy .... getting amgs and wobs to perform like trained sea lions in a zoo at feeding time barking the same old failed mantras .... no signs that I can see of any changes forthcoming from amgs so they will have to carry on using the same old excuses ... too many people like wenger ... nobody believes tony pulis will really do better ... it seems we are stuck with the same old amgs for while other successful supporters will ensure half the pl change their managers before the season ends .... what a hopeless bunch of incompetents our anti manager factions are ... lol

  82. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 18:12 #54764

    maguiresbridge, have you got my button mushrooms?

  83. Love Arsene

    Aug 04, 2014, 18:07 #54763

    jeff wright I’ve been reading you whine about the club, the players and the manager for a long time now. You are not an arsenal fan. You are under no circumstance therefore aloud to take any pleasure or jubilation from this club. On behalf of the real fans, the manager and the players of arsenal…. go support the spuds you miserable cynical unsupportive spud

  84. You Wok John

    Aug 04, 2014, 17:41 #54762

    Agaricus bisporis me olde china

  85. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 17:31 #54761

    maguiresbridge, button mushrooms?

  86. jeff wright

    Aug 04, 2014, 17:27 #54760

    Pete/Fred/Bert etc... getting back to Arsene's tactical nous or rather lack of it , some ex-players have stated that he doesent do tactics,he is a training ground coach who gets players to perform like trained sea lions in a zoo at feeding time,some can balance balls on their noses and catch sardines in their mouths when a bucket of them is chucked into their enclosure. There is no ad-libbing the whole shebang is rehearsed . Same scenario with Jack and co they play to a script and it's exactly the same one whatever the oppo is.Subs and the time they will partake in the show are arranged before the game and are only used earlier if a player is injured or a sending off forces a change in the order of battle. It's this rigid predictability and old fashioned ideas that has resulted in Wenger's failure in Europe and demise from us being a top 2 side to a 4th or occasionally 3rd place one in the Prem . Chelsea and City having more dosh can't be used for an excuse for years of miserable failure against Mourinho because Liverpool finished ahead of Chelsea ( The ex-special one has brought back Drogba to add more torment for Arsene)last term and came close to doing the same to City whereas Wenger got his chicken licking ass well paddled by all of those three in head to heads away when he did not disappoint his critics by not living up to his nom de plume of Inspector Clueless. .No signs that I can see of any changes forthcoming from Arsene so you will have to carry on using the same old excuses ...the stadium debt (yawn) the spuds sssssssszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzn... financial security.... clunk.... FFP ....

  87. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 04, 2014, 17:26 #54759

    Bard 57939, 57946, it's not the . button mate it's their belly button they're still fiddling with that and haven't worked out what that hole is yet, now the hole behind, after much fiddling with that they soon worked out what that's for after some nasty accidents and it's now their strong suit, Talking through.

  88. michel

    Aug 04, 2014, 17:18 #54758

    Wait til the real games begin and then you can judge us. From what I have seen so far the title is for Utd to lose and I think Chelsea will struggle without their American midfielder. Some of us are confused as whether he was off to Maine Rd or Maine Mass. Maybe they are twinned Arsene .... Arsene? I am off shopping with the Germans. Have a good week.

  89. Westlower

    Aug 04, 2014, 17:16 #54757

    @Ron, No formations in mind, just putting best names forward. I doubt that we've bought Chambers not to play him? Rumours still rife for new DM including Carvalho & Guilavogui. Regardless of new signings would you play JW or Arteta ahead of Chambers as DM?

  90. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 17:14 #54756

    Where are my mushrooms?

  91. chris dee

    Aug 04, 2014, 17:10 #54755

    Clucking Bell what a palarva over a frigging friendly match. Following the logic of some of vitriolic s**t written United are the best team on the planet cause they beat Madrid in some poxy tournament in the States and Chelsea are relegation fodder cause they lost to Werder Bremen in another meaningless match.

  92. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 16:53 #54754

    I wouldn't argue with that selection 24601, I really liked what I saw of young Calum. His attributes were plentiful; for a youngster he had supreme confidence too. His body language was revealing, he was unfazed throughout. I thought his positional awareness for one so young, and a new boy was special. With that litany I would certainly be interested in seeing him play in the DM role. Ox just has to be in any team of mine at the moment.

  93. Ron

    Aug 04, 2014, 16:49 #54753

    Westie - respect its all about choices as ever mate, but that looks like you're going to go 433 with that team? It would get steam rollered by most teams, never mind the better ones in my opinion. A DM midfielder whos had 20 odd PL games under his belt? Are you serious? Suspect youre having one of those episodes again that used to bring on Kallstromitis?

  94. Fred

    Aug 04, 2014, 16:44 #54752

    ha....a technical analysis would go over your head ct .... but we will give it a try .... technically where we went wrong yesterday is in conceding a goal without scoring one more goal than they did.... i hope that helps .... though the football is usually a bit of a sideshow for you amgs ... usually you are for more concerning without trying to knock the manager over .... you are just p*ss poor at doing so ... technically where do you think the wobs are going wrong?.... bard might be holding is breath for your answer so dont take too long ...lol

  95. Westlower

    Aug 04, 2014, 16:40 #54751

    Best midfield 3: Ramsey, Chambers (DM), Ox? Most lethal front 3: Walcott, Alexis, Ozil? Back 4 picks itself when all available: Debuchy, BFG, Kos, Gibbs.

  96. Ron

    Aug 04, 2014, 16:34 #54750

    allybear - the premise is that AW is no longer good enough really ally, the game's evolution having quietly passed him by, much to his chagrin. Even those of us who actually still look for, allude to and comment on his on few remaining plus's are as guilty as those still firmly supportive of him, in that we all just re cycle and re frame the same stuff, but the premise for many of us remains good and for others remains flawed. The major difference for the critics is there are those who want him gone come what may forthwith and those of us who would like him to prove us all wrong. Its the former that worry over what Westie and Co might say if AW did.

  97. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 16:30 #54749

    I post for something like the very opposite reason, allybear. Incidentally, has there been an excuse for AW today? If so, I must have missed it. There is much sport and fun in this posting tennis though. 'New balls!'

  98. allybear

    Aug 04, 2014, 16:17 #54748

    Friendly games dont mean anything as we all know. The real proof is in the Prem&CL and this is once again were Arsenal will come up short. The manager is past it and tactically inept and most of the team are too lightweight. This will be a season like any other plus more thrashings. Mrs allybear asks me why i continue to comment on this site and i tell her its because i enjoy it and love to hear all the excuses for AW time and time again!

  99. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 16:12 #54747

    Bard, you are a good lad, and a sport, chum. 'To canter', from pilgrim's horse speed on the way to Canterbury. The elderly chap westlower first coined the phrase in the year Thomas Becket began the anti-monarchy movement. That's a 'gee' for you!

  100. Bard

    Aug 04, 2014, 16:05 #54746

    Don't hold your breath Cornish Gooner, you could be waiting a long time. I don't get the impression thats their strong suit.

  101. A Cornish Gooner

    Aug 04, 2014, 15:16 #54745

    Pete/Fred. Could either/both of you give us a technical analysis of where you think Arsenal went wrong yesterday, please.

  102. Ron

    Aug 04, 2014, 15:15 #54744

    Hi Pete - Ozil played quite well in most Ger games mate and it was widely commented upon, but there were ones where maybe he could have been subbed perhaps and had things not gone swimmingly for Ger, he wd have been im sure. They weren't that great until the latter stages of the tourny. I agree with you in that he is the type of player who wont/ shdt be churning through 60, 90 min games per season. His Coach at Madrid recognised and respected that plus he had other otions.His game depends on feeling fully fit and having a sharp mind all of the time and im not sure any player of his type can be that way if always under pressure of playing week, in week out. Hes a bit of a luxury, which is why such as Wilshere should be able to adapt and complement Ozils role in the squad and also be prepared to be dropped when such as Ozil is in a purple patch. Eng players are too quick to get the hump on being dropped or subbed.

  103. jeff wright

    Aug 04, 2014, 15:10 #54743

    Pete the troll,I don't think that everyone who supports Wenger is the same person,but you obviously post under different names ,although by often forgetting what you posted under another name means that you are a bit chicken licken thick. It's also fairly obvious that Wenger is not as tactically clued up as other managers who have won the European Cup while he always comes up short in it.

  104. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 04, 2014, 15:04 #54742

    Ah well there's always next year.

  105. Ron

    Aug 04, 2014, 14:58 #54741

    R/K - Its more often than not when he runs at defences that Wilshere hold the ball too long. He gets fouled as a result or runs into defenders. He s looking for 'glory' when he does it and basically, hes not good enough to find it. Hes good at those runs that you mention, but never lays it off at the right time to players better positioned. He has missed Walcott (i never thought id say that!) and Giroud is always either too central, standing statuesque or hes come too far back and leaves JW with no options, hence he delays releasing the ball and ends up on the floor whinging at the ref about harsh treatment. It occurs so often its a joke! Yes Giroud is a very, very limited CF but there is a squad full of players there who if the truth be known have little to no idea of their best assets or best roles under Wenger. He looks for players of speed, slight stature to make them speedier and with technique (to different extents) and accumulates them in his squad, but then doesn't know how to accommodate them all. A big problem in that team (as someone said earlier) is the chronic lack of physical strength in it though. Its needed in the PL more now than ever in the last 10 years as i see it and Arsenal are push overs in that dept. Pellegrini is an idealist type Coach but he recognises the need to temper a team with power as well as guile. AW s methods post his 2002-2004 team and tactics were never revolutionary as he seems to kid himself. He was just beguiled by Peps Messi dominated Barca and remains wedded to it. Now they're not on the coaching radar for the top Clubs as they don't work. The new Barcelona regime is recognising this now.

  106. Pete

    Aug 04, 2014, 14:54 #54740

    Jeff Wright thinks everybody's the same person who backs Wenger.How thick is he? Also Ron you said Ozil had more intelligent players at RM which is why he played better.I think at RM he was taken off a lot and also left on the bench. By your logic world cup winners Germany have no intelligent players either as he only really performed in the final.

  107. Fred

    Aug 04, 2014, 14:52 #54739

    ha! ...more excuses from jeff and bard .... same old tune ... its not our fault! .... well it dont wash anymore ... years of excuses .... arsenal have managed just one trophy .... and all we have to show is a brand new state of the art stadium ... a new training complex .... consistently competing at the top level .... sustainable resources and a healthy bank balance to buy the players arsenal want to buy ...but not the back page this seasons flavour of the month favourites that the amgs had never heard of before but want to buy now to prove we are ambitious ... but really just want to use as a stick to beat the club over the head ..... you have had plenty of time but have not used it wisely to get rid of the manager .... the manc united supporters got rid of their manager in just seven months !!!!! ... you cannot do it in more than seven years ... other supporters have managed to drive their clubs to the brink of bankruptcy to get rid of their managers!!! .... all you have come up with in 8 years are a few acronyms!!! ....worthless than a fourth place virtual trophy .....total incompetence ... your tactics have been wrong ... you have relied on cheap bargain basement amgs and wobs who have not been up to the job .... instead of investing in top notch professional whingers .... time to go ... lol

  108. Bard

    Aug 04, 2014, 14:34 #54738

    BADARSE; you've got to read between the lines mate, something you're good at. Pete is up and thumping mightily about what people do in their real lives (haven't seen any evidence of that but who cares), I did find his call to arms uplifting if sightly misdirected. Julesd emerged from post season hibernation to lambast the non- believers after the thrashing of mighty Benefica All good stuff. Hope our soldiers on the field show as much commitment to the cause on Saturday v Man Citeh. Fred have you got a slight problem with the . button?

  109. jeff wright

    Aug 04, 2014, 14:26 #54737

    Pete the troll 3pf, Wenger won the FAC last season ,that's why he is still the manager... it looked dodgy for him at 2-0 down against Hull but he survived ... it's all those imaginary 4th place trophies though that have kept him in Stan's good books over the real trophyless years ... Stan decides Wenger's fate not me... Stan has taken a chance on Wenger coming up trumps again as he usually does in the qualifier tie to secure the CL group stage cash... he won't be an happy bunny if Arsene messes it up and we have to play in the Ropey on a Thursday night.

  110. Ron

    Aug 04, 2014, 14:10 #54736

    Marco - hi mate. Tough question that, but yes JW work ethic should compliment Ozil somehow. Im not sure how though. Both in the same team raises question marks doesn't it and its that AW is having to wrestle with, though he created his own conundrum didnt he. The truth is that Arsenal have far too many players of the same type and some thing has to give. Ozil has the brain, but not the heart i feel. JW seems to be the opposite. Ozil needs intelligent players in front of him as he had at Madrid. Hes not got that at Arsenal and it makes the lad look poor at times and im sure its that which makes him lose a bit of heart. He needs to accept he hasnt got such luxuries now or he ll forever be a flop i fear.

  111. Fred

    Aug 04, 2014, 13:58 #54735

    after careful thought i have decided that cheerleader in cheif for the anti wenger faction jeff wright must go ... his inept handling of the amg wob cause over the last 9 years has been incompetent and as a result the amgs wobs have been denied the managers head trophy that they think they deserve .... his poor tactics and useless team members bard ..jjetplane ... ron ...maguiresbridge ... and others ... have failed consistently while teams around us have had multiple managers in the same barren period .... spuds ... liverpool .... chavs .... city .... even manc united are on their third manager in 2 seasons ... jeff wright is not only past it ...lets be straight .... he has not even reached it in the first place.... the excuses for amg failure are boring ... yes we all know the arsenal manager is popular.... we all know that most rational people see him as successful ... but thats no excuse for the failure to lift the managers head trophy at least once in almost 20 years ... the amg record compared to european clubs is also pathetic ... real ... barcelona ... bayern ... have all had lots of managers in the time we failed to lift wengers head just once.... our record in the european managers head league is abysmal .... still we get the same constant excuses .... just a thrashing away to the top teams will be enough we are told .... but i have no confidence that jeff wright can deliver us a managers head in the next 3 years .... and probably not even then .... enough is enough .... jeff wright must go .... and he should take his team of overpaid no hopers with him ... i rest my case... lol

  112. Marco Reus

    Aug 04, 2014, 13:31 #54734

    Wenger has created a squad full of weaklings not one powerful player here. Every team has athletic players except Arsenal. Its not suprising why Arsenal falter against any team who seem to have a pulse. Once again this highlights Wenger is a dinosour. The modern game is all about pace and power which Arsenal don't have.

  113. Pete

    Aug 04, 2014, 13:17 #54733

    What I do Fred is twist their noses during a game if one starts dripping near me.Or a flat palm on the top of their bonce helps as well. Being 6ft 4 and an ex Royal Marine means I don't get many retaliate, and it always get's a laugh from all around which does seem to egg me on.

  114. Marco Reus

    Aug 04, 2014, 13:16 #54732

    Ron - Do you think Wilshere is better than Ozil to play in that position? Though I don't rate Ozil I feel he is on another level to Jack and provides creativity which JW struggles with. Though JW is certainly better at doing defensive work and giving work rate which Ozil seems like can't be bothered to.

  115. jjetplane

    Aug 04, 2014, 13:14 #54731

    Tis a wee bit sad and predictable that OGL is already chucking toys out of his pram having once again failed to secure a virtual trophy of his own making. I bet he kicked the poodles last night. What Citeh do is not really his business but he probably thinks now red nose has gone, he is the wise old sage of the PL. Funny enough it is probably Pellegrini who owns that presently and will no doubt cement it in 2015 with another PL. Rather him than Maureen any day who I hope is trophyless again - that would be a momentous giggle. All this talk of dark moonies is a right chuckle when you witness the gravitas of some of these AKB postings. They are the original moonies as they have a bloke they follow around from beach to virtual beach preaching about nothing less than 'the spirit' - a holy ghost of football - nowhere to be seen unless you step out into the light which just happens to be the dark. Anyway, having not had a proper game yet and it's already the referees and moneybag clubs messing it up for poor misunderstood Arsene. That should give Citeh the right motivation for the grade A exhibition next week. Any bets for Lampard playing and scoring. No gain without a little pain chaps .....

  116. A Cornish Gooner

    Aug 04, 2014, 13:13 #54730

    BADARSE When did you first realise you had abilities akin to Archimedes? Was it when you had your Ulrika moment? Hopefully you didn't run naked through the streets of Ramsgate.

  117. radfordkennedy

    Aug 04, 2014, 13:08 #54729

    Ron...agree with your comments regarding JW,nobody knows what hes been instructed to do in that dressing room and im quite neither does he.If he keeps dithering on the ball with his back to play he will take a high number of achilles injuries,hes got to lay it off quicker and move for the return or execute that brilliant Dalgleish turn he had in his locker as a boy and run at the heart of the opponents defence,thats what hes good at.in my opinion hes been told to do something alien to him or hes becoming frustrated with the slowness behind him and comes looking for the ball often resulting in horrific lunging tackles putting his glass ankles on offer again.JW could become a really top player but only if the coaching plays to his strengths and he needs to understand that if he was any other nationality other than the great white english hope hed be lucky to make the squad

  118. jeff wright

    Aug 04, 2014, 13:07 #54728

    17 years of inept failure in Europe by Arsene compared to the records of his peers will take some explaining away Baddie ,but hey if anyone can do it by using Dreamland one way ticket to ride to Margate like obfuscation then that hombre is you! Fred give it a rest chum it's becoming embarrassing.

  119. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 12:36 #54727

    Ha ha, lovely jeff wright. Will respond a little later, fella.

  120. jeff wright

    Aug 04, 2014, 12:28 #54726

    Baddie, these so called friendly pre-season cup tournaments are ALL gerrymandered. For starters there is obviously a 'gentleman's' agreement regarding tackling and no play acting to get opponents red carded as we see all the time in real competitive games. Now under these conditions ,playing at home on the billiard table surface, Wenger's football should prosper with everything in place for it to do so. Last season Drogba and co had other ideas , as did Henry and the Red Bulls the time before in the EC and yesterday it was Falco and Monaco who toyed with our little garden gnomes .Wenger has not won his own 'cup tournament' played at home since 2010 and the malarkey has exposed him again as being le emperor with no clothes and tactically inept .The old 4-4-2 desperation gamble worked against Wigan in the FAC semi to snatch a draw when we were losing 1-0 after some dodgy defending and Flappy saved the day with his penalty shootout heroics - but you really do have to be living in Dreamland listening to a CD of 'One Thousand and One Tibetan Monks ' chanting John Lennon's 'I'm Only Sleeping' (yawn)to believe that this sort of tactical ploy will work in times of trouble for Wenger against better class opponents. It's all sooo predictable and only when faced with opponents who can't be bothered to tackle does the tippy tappy really work ,a'la Norwich for Jack's MOTD goal of the season and the likes of a knackered Benfica who looked like they would rather be on a beach on the Algarve playing volley ball with a few models rather than having to tackle Sanago .Anyway,I see that Arsene is already getting in the excuses in case something goes awry v City, the dastardly Arabs are buying clubs here there and everywhere to act as feeders for Poundlands - just as well we don't have someone at AFC at owning other clubs !

  121. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 12:14 #54725

    Evening Athoz. You may be right chum, perhaps that Hubbard slur could be on the money. Funny how this new age cosmic drivel is all merging with the old age religious drivel. Angels kind of have a foot in both camps-their currency has definitely risen, though you could say that about zombies and vampires, never more popular. Heard on the news report, BBC Radio 4, that England finished above Australia for the first time since the days of Ned Kelly, a good excuse for this or the next government to cut sports investment monies, as an unnecessary luxury, well no one will house-over the playing fields of Eton.

  122. Fred

    Aug 04, 2014, 12:09 #54724

    evloution of an amg post ...part deux .... arsenal lose firendly to new york red bulls 0-1 ...amg says this just shows how wenger is tactically inept and how poor our defense is et c .... arsenal beat benfica in a friendly 5 -1 ... amg says this is just a meaningless friendly and benfica players were tired et c ...... arsenal lose to monaco in a friendly .... amg says this just shows how wenger is tactically inept and how poor our defense is et c .... you have to laugh ... lol...

  123. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 11:44 #54723

    You sell your 'numbers' with eloquence 24601. Yes the two schools definitely exist and we are seeing in more subtle terms that being put into practise, especially in non-penalty area contact. Running, or turning into an opponent to gain an obstruction decision is a classic, trailing your leg to make contact with a keeper's diving (moving) body too. Your point is valid. A player can choose to be hit often, and prepares for impact, these are the finer nuances I speak of.

  124. Ron

    Aug 04, 2014, 11:39 #54722

    Hi Chris - respect mate. I hope that youre right. I just see the same levels of impetuosity in Wilshere as were there 4 years ago. Worrying. His major problem is two fold as i see it 1. Hold the ball for too long.2. Wants to be 'Roy of the Rovers' aka Gerrard and just doesn't have the skill set to do it. Guys like Zidane were able to do that but not mere mortals like Wilshere. He lacks the stature to do that anyway. Far too small. I strongly feel that the best 'coaching' Wilshere needs is for the Club to tell him what his best position is. In my view, its in an advance (perhaps central but possibly out wider aka Liam Brady) midfield role. Given that, if he can be taught when to involve himself in the game and when to release the ball he stands a chance. There are parallels here with Walcott. My main gripe with Wenger is his coaching but mainly that he tolerates players whimsies. Walcott is a winger, nothing else and never will be, yet the Club has played to his desires to be the new Henry for 7 years, hence hes reached the stage that he has and still doesn't have the complete game in either position. Wilshere is in the same situation and at the same crossroads of his career. This is evident in the Club seemingly thinking of him now as a DM? Utter lunacy. Wenger is groping around looking for a role that any non league Coach could identify. People shout spending spending etc etc as their vehicle to condemn Wenger. For me its his attitude to coaching that has and always will see him as only ever having been a very decent/good coach and never, ever a commanding top notch one. At risk of sa rant, i also point to his ruination of Arshavin as another eg of his severe limitations as a coach. AA was excellent on the ball but a winger as Wenger thought? Again, more lunacy. The guy was a support striker operating just off/behind an effective central striker, which Wenger never then as now, provided for the team to extract his full benefit. Its all this type of stuff that puts me firmly in the 'Thanks Arsene but please just go now' camp. Its very frustrating as these are all aspects of football that an assistant coach with a decent pedigree would/should have picked up on. Its cost the Club and will continue to do so but more importantly its stalling players careers. Its this latter point BADARE that makes me disagree with you that such as JW is 'in the right hands'. He very much isnt as i see it. He badly needs a tactically astute Coach at his age who wont stand for his whimsies and who gives him clear and unambiguous guidance on playing the game in a way that optimises his talents. Wengers romantic notions and idealistic philosophies wont help him at all. Chris is right, he s a potentially good player. Not a great one in the making but his future career beckons. For what its worth i don't think he ll spend a long time with Arsenal, unless the Club changes its Coach soon enough.

  125. Westlower

    Aug 04, 2014, 11:30 #54721

    @Badarse Whether a player wishes to avoid or be involved in a collision is usually down to the individuals persona. Rule of thumb generally speaking is that forwards spend their careers avoiding collisions while hairy arsed defenders thrive on them. Always remember Tony Adams running full pelt at Cantona who saw what was coming and quickly took evasive action. Robben in particular does similar today. Diving is the preserve of the intended victim. It's brain v brawn, pub footballer v aristocrat. On arithmetic, what's more important, words or numbers? Some are easily seduced by warm words, eloquently delivered. While others (stronger minds/cynics) need to see the sentiment backed up mathematically before being convinced by a point of view. Being an avid student of the form book, numbers hold sway over the race readers words (analysis). One is fact, the other opinion. Numbers never lie. While I respect the race readers thoughts, words are often misunderstood, misread, misguided or deceitful. Two + two will always make four, just ask Sanogo!

  126. Ozzie

    Aug 04, 2014, 11:29 #54720

    Baddie, once you start seeing angels on a billiard table it's time to stop meditating old fella:-)

  127. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 11:13 #54719

    Morning jeff wright. Well as I stated, some see things their way, others see a different picture, but you have to be wary of those claiming their eyesight's vista is a correct portrayal of reality, rather than those they see as opponents. They might be better suited to the mentality of the conquistadors and their narrow constraints. For me the Emirates Cup sums up 'today', for better, or (mainly), worse. How think you on that my friend? Olivier perhaps slept with three different women in the last five days, (or five in three?), does that qualify as an excuse for a poor performance then? I like the word 'gerrymandering', but is this a deep-rooted manifestation of a psychosis, just because I, a non World Cup participant, tipped the winners?

  128. jeff wright

    Aug 04, 2014, 10:59 #54718

    The Emirate Cup sums up everything that is wrong with this current regime and the manager these days. You just knew after the Postman's embarrassing antics that it would all end in tears. I suspect that those OTT goal celebs and the stumble will come back to haunt him. The AKB's, despite what some are now claiming, actually do take the nonsensical Emirates Cup seriously - and so does Wenger - you could see this by the OTT euphoria surrounding the win over Benfica, who incidentally they had already played 3 games prior to Saturday's yawn in the past 5 days in another money making 'tournament'. Someone cynically suggested that this was why they were invited to play in the Emirates one ! Actually I suspect that this is more than likely true. Even with this gerrymandering though Arsene again failed to win the cup that was set up for him to win.You could see by his protests at anything that went against us in the game that he was taking it as seriously and afterwards his excuses had a hollow,if not unfamiliar, ring about them. Diaby was not risked because if he were to breakdown again , this is more than likely , then Wenger would have to sign another player. Wenger needs to keep Diaby looking fit until the window closes. That's how cynical things are now at AFC under monsieur Wonga. By the way Giroud doesn't become any quicker when he is match fit. That is a fact , he is naturally just rather slow.

  129. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 10:44 #54717

    Yes Chris, I go along with that. Some areas of a player's ability just develops automatically and only need polishing and buffing. Other aspects need to be reshaped and reworked. Some do progress, some fall a little short and some 'fail', I guess. Jack is in the best possible hands and has every opportunity to overcome what may just be a glitch. A wonderful talent, despite some blinkered facets. Here's to him, and to us.

  130. Chris

    Aug 04, 2014, 10:37 #54716

    Ron - Jack will never be just another grafting Englishman because he is so technically excellent with the ball. I'd agree he doesn't alway seem the brightest but he has got good vision and I think his lack of intelligence can be mitigated through good coaching - e.g. by teaching him rules of thumb to use in place of truly comprehensive decision making skills. So partially with you on the diagnosis, disagree with the prognosis.

  131. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 9:52 #54715

    Can I open this topic? I have often considered this, casually mentioned it as a statement of fact-I see it as so-and had no real response, as if the concept is an alien and cosmic one to those listening. I know a little about movement, bodies especially, generally all self-taught, but the person who sees the angles on a snooker table more readily would see what I'm alluding to. It's also the way we anticipate the curl, or swerve of a football. Throwing a dart or firing an arrow, allowing for the dip in flight caused by a loss of momentum, also gives me a tiny spark of enjoyment when the shaft strikes home. Sorry for the exhaustive explanation but these things register with me as a thing of beauty. Angles, movement, numbers are akin to music. These things may only be loosely connected but they give an outline. My poser is that I see, as explained in an earlier post, that a collision is imminent and I prepare in micro-seconds for the eventuality. The brain has a pre-ordained expected outcome, it's why we notice that the reaction to the impact seems unconvincing on occasions. You know he dived, because of the awkward and sham movement. Now this judgement isn't infallible of course, but it usually is sound. Especially at junior level, where the young are less jaundiced and practised. Here I see error or gaffs by refs, and the watching public often don't in these matters. They haven't seen what I saw. So my question to all is does all what I am saying sound like gibberish, or does it strike a chord? I know you Ron, involved in a technical role as well as a love for the game see much of what I speak. I also know from previous posts of your background on movement that you know about the body. You 24601 share my love of arithmetic and I defy you to deny that the adding or calculating of numbers and sequences, doesn't create it's own melody, which can almost become a symphony, am I not correct?. You throw arrows too, there is a satisfying aspect in this too, wouldn't you agree? So, I know from personal experience that we don't all share this fundamental quirk, do those refs who do, make better refs than those who have an absence of this ability?

  132. Edmund

    Aug 04, 2014, 9:39 #54714

    Offside traps are dangerous with inept linesmen around.

  133. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 9:20 #54713

    I am with Charlie on the embarrassment theme 24601. The strict understanding of a linesman's role is as an assistant-it's why the title was changed to give a greater understanding for the general responsibilities. If a ref is in doubt they can possibly assist-their function. They either know and give the ref the insight, or they don't. It is only ever a back-up. A ref in a perfectly good position should never need to ask. As I said earlier, Atkinson abdicated. The observations of the pluses and minuses of the players in the two games are accurate. Oh, and I have habitually had a problem with not keeping my flag in hanging down mode.

  134. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 9:04 #54712

    Bard, try as I might, I hear no drums, and certainly not any sabre-rattling. Could the booming be the Bad Moonies Rising? For sure the sabre-rattling noises have been misconstrued, they are tambourines being shaken, come young man, skip into the light.

  135. Westlower

    Aug 04, 2014, 9:00 #54711

    I watched the game at home with a young referee and he was embarrassed for Martin Atkinson. To initially call the correct decision and then lacked the courage of his own conviction to stand by what he obviously saw beggars belief. The lino was lagging 2 yards behind play & was 10 times further away from the incident than the ref. Just hope this isn't a sample of what's to come from our inept officials again this season. For all that it was an insipid Arsenal display & we didn't deserve the pen although it clearly was one. Giroud is still on his holiday's & in my mind, Ox has moved ahead of Jack in the midfield pecking order. Chambers promises much but he stayed put as Kos moved out to play Falcao offside, but as Keown said afterwards that can be sorted out on the training ground. They're hardly going to pull up trees first time playing together. Cazorla continues to disappoint me and contributed very little. All in all an informative weekend with the positives - Chambers, Sanogo, Ox, Alexis, Campbell, Bellerin; negatives - Giroud, Cazorla, JW, Monreal.

  136. Bard

    Aug 04, 2014, 8:54 #54710

    Couldn't be bothered to go as Ron haas said its just a cynical moneymaking exercise but saw the highlights, no real evidence either way as to how we will fare. maybe the charity shield next week will give us a clearer idea. It does seem as though the AKBs are in full rant mode. A bit early to be banging the drums and rattling the sabres.

  137. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 8:47 #54709

    Morning Ron. Yes there is a 'training game' type feel to these games. It does depend on a state of mind though. It is a 'safe' environment, not only for the players/coaching staff, but also for the fans. They can cheer and celebrate a goal or victory at a few decibels below normal perhaps, equally can assuage their outlook that a defeat isn't so important. As I said, 'safe'. The club cannot go wrong because of the many circumstances surrounding the event, that's why people still, 'pay up and fall for it'. As one individual my reasons are that I can go to see my team, at my stadium, with my family and friends. Without this type of event those days would have passed. The baptism of the young cannot be replicated by older experiences but we take and shape our own versions of what we see as important. You wouldn't think that two fans sharing similar experiences and upbringings could go in different directions, but do. People are different, and major and minor impacts along life's highway knocks some off course, sometimes for the better, on occasions not. The little computers -our brains-process the info and data received in slightly different fashions. Some become overtly cynical, others see the same pessimistic overwash and sidestep wherever possible. Obvious statement I know, but how can ears decipher music in different ways? Someone who loves a modern young singer will still love him, even if they are forcibly made to listen to the velvet tones of say, Nat 'King' Cole, who will probably be rejected. As I have said in different ways quite often, it's easier to tear down than build up. The laws that govern entropy are clearly evident in many. Perhaps the fractured comprehensions of the club in all things is just a part of the chaos theory itself. Phew!

  138. Pete

    Aug 04, 2014, 8:22 #54708

    Another season awaits of getting screwed over by dodgy refs from the North,are Londoners so inept that not a single referee comes from there and only one from the South...Having said that Monaco were big and strong and spoiling and as BADARSE said at least the Dark Moonies are happy so at least some went home happy.

  139. Ron

    Aug 04, 2014, 8:19 #54707

    Morning Badarse - Lots of posters getting excited about the EC mate. Players put more effort into a light training session than they do that tourny. The Club makes a packet out of it though. It barely justifies free entry.entry. Im surprised people still pay up and fall for it. As for Wilshere. All the coaching in the World wont give him intelligence, the lack of which will always make him just another grafting english journeyman.

  140. BADARSE

    Aug 04, 2014, 7:06 #54706

    Well the flag wouldn't stay in 'hanging down' mode. Flags are a bit cluttered around the stadium now, a little overkill there. Something the Dark Moonies will rub their hands together with glee over-another 'failure' by AFC. A turgid game, neither were interested in, or able to raise the tempo. Olivier seemed especially quiet, off the ball he was walking a lot, on it slow-very sluggish. Jack was berated by your's truly for his recklessand rash challenge. I could see he was going for it before he did. This young man is primed and on automatic. He needed to stay on his feet. Borne of a will to succeed, to do his bit? Whatever it was it was poor decision-making and the only goal of the game resulted. The goal which took away the little trophy. The defence at set-pieces appeared unusual to my eyes. A bank of blue shirts a yard or more away from a bank of red. The goal a free header. The 'non-penalty' was a laughable decision. Again it was clearly going to happen before it did. I knew the lad would make the box and awaited the impact. True the linesman overruled the ref( how did he not judge it and see it as most did?), but the ref abdicated responsibility-well it was only Arsenal. Jack had a poor game for me, by contrast Ox was the other side of the coin and made things happen. Debuchy didn't get down his line very often but did OK. Young Calum is a natural. His positional awareness is quite remarkable. A big, big future for this lad. Fourthward Arsenal!

  141. Edmund

    Aug 04, 2014, 6:51 #54705

    I hope Ramsey has some gas left in his tank after playing both games in the Emirates Cup. Overall, the midfield performance was woeful with no penetration. Alexis looks good but I hope he doesn't spend months out for the bruise on his head. Zelalem shows promise but looks like a strong gust of wind could blow him away. Next up is City in the Charity Shield. Which team will show up? The champs who trashed Benfica or the unready who played Monaco?

  142. Weep no more sad fountains...

    Aug 04, 2014, 5:59 #54704

    Very funny!

  143. Eggs in a basket

    Aug 03, 2014, 21:53 #54703

    Whadda we do now Batman?

  144. Finsbury Joe

    Aug 03, 2014, 21:36 #54702

    Well that stopped the AKBs in their tracks didn't it. A clueless inept manager, the very opposite of a serial winner. Hope the AKBs have taken note of the immense pre seasons of rivals, winners Utd beating Madrid, Liverpool beating Milan, and even the noisy neighbours destruction of Celtic. These other teams have proper tactical managers, who pay attention to detail. It's all about quality, proper coaching, guile and marginal gains, concepts wenger will never understand. Shad Forsyth...arsenal would be better off with bruce Forsyth for all the power and influence he will allow his new fitness coach.arsenal become the first team to lose to an mls team, then failed to score again against the mighty Monaco. You couldn't make it up. Guess we can always say we are the top south london team......if nothing else. Losing is a habit, and in wenger, arsenal have a world class exponent of abject failure when measured against his considerable resources. True Gooners must weep

  145. Pete the Chav

    Aug 03, 2014, 20:15 #54701

    We should have signed Fabregas and got Cole back.

  146. Pete

    Aug 03, 2014, 20:05 #54700

    To our resident Chav fans and Shaggy's on here.What happened to you today getting rinsed 3-0 by Bremen full strength and looking awful at the back, Maureen looked clueless.

  147. bloooood

    Aug 03, 2014, 19:42 #54699

    The 1-0 defeat to Monaco shows up the flaws in the Arsenal system defensively weak and poor in midfield when we need a simple result like a draw we do not make the grade. We spend millions on a player who will not fit in when we need a centre back and a holding midfielder. The manager need changing he can't get results when it matters he won't deliver the Premiership or the Champions League. By the way ...where was Diaby ?

  148. Proud to be an AKB

    Aug 03, 2014, 18:29 #54698

    We wuz robbed! Ref must have been a WOB. Quieter than a funeral home today but still reckon we can go all the way this season. Sing up lads!

  149. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 03, 2014, 17:12 #54697

    SKG, hear what your saying mate but it would be a waste of time like OGL and his followers he'd have an excuse for everything.

  150. Pete

    Aug 03, 2014, 16:03 #54696

    Correct Westie. The dark moonies,chicken lickers what ever you wish to call them are a cowardly bunch of glory hunters in general,most of them in real life are all talk and similar to Shaggy from Scooby-Doo.If they were Americans they'd all follow the yankees or if Manchester were closer they would all follow the media darlings manure as most of them are so in love with get stuck in hoof-ball.

  151. jjetplane

    Aug 03, 2014, 15:56 #54695

    We are talking the Emirates Cup here which is hardly going to resonate outside of the local post code. You keep blabbering on about getting behind behind 'AFC' when you mean Arsene FC. Talk to me when we win PL/CL in any order in the next three years. Yesterday is just part of a very cynical circus so let us see what happens next month. At the moment the momentum is with 'the top four' and 100 thou at a match in Michigan tells you a lot about the new nature of football, Maybe we will be 'watching' a superleague based in America sooner than we think. Perhaps it is part of Stan's dream to help make up the numbers. Never was AFC looking less AFC and like my favourite poster says: 'who gives a flying ...' Happy season old chap.

  152. Westlower

    Aug 03, 2014, 15:16 #54694

    @JJ The result against RM is incidental as all the Man U remarks were hours before that game took place. It's insulting to the teams being screened if Man U hog the narrative. We are talking about a team who finished 3 places behind us last season. Dark Moonies who are reticent about giving AFC their full support unless success is guaranteed are cowardly in the extreme. It's like me only being willing to back a horse if I know it will win.

  153. Fred

    Aug 03, 2014, 14:53 #54693

    hahaha ... bard is obfuscating rather than clarifying... publicly salivating at the prospect of an imaginary hammering does not need clarification ... it is what it is ..... the wish is father to the thought .... as is the conviction that the future does not hold much for us .... woe woe and thrice woe says the bard ... lol.

  154. jjetplane

    Aug 03, 2014, 14:44 #54692

    WESTIE do you not think having crowds over 100 thousand and winning against RM puts you higher on the media burn that a dance and a goal at the Holloway sanctuary. Big pictures my friend and an acceptance of where you are. BADARSE as RON as illustrated on a few telling posts, you are not on a wind-up. The transparency is there for all too see and every now and again it melts away. Join the club - you are amongst friends.

  155. Bard

    Aug 03, 2014, 14:12 #54691

    Fred clarification of misunderstanding doesn't constitute wriggling but there you go. No I don't want us to get hammered by anyone and neither do I want Wenger to be humiliated. I have been consistent in saying that he should have left with his head held high at the end of last season. Nothing left to prove to anyone. I have been consistent is saying he will never win a PL or CL. His time has come and gone. So whats left for him and his jolly bunch of disciples, not much I would suggest.

  156. Fred

    Aug 03, 2014, 13:16 #54690

    ha!... bard is in full wriggle mode .... whats the difference between the prospect of getting hammered at chelsea or getting hammered anywhere else? ... your own comment is too complex for you to grasp ... go on admit you are praying for a car crash ... be honest ... it is what you want ....

  157. Bard

    Aug 03, 2014, 13:11 #54689

    Pete you've been reading too many spy novels. My mates will really have a chuckle over the idea, Im a Chav in disguise.

  158. Ron

    Aug 03, 2014, 12:39 #54688

    Always good to get a decent pre season result. Meaningless though guys. We ve been here before in the EC dont forget.

  159. jjetplane

    Aug 03, 2014, 12:38 #54687

    Deconstruction Time Again (Depeche Mode). Watched highlights which were grouped online with Chelski 6 Arsene 0 as uncanny reminder that reality beckons and the LVG discourse will be the subject of the season unless Arsenal dive bomb spectacularly then the old boy might have to smile wipe. Fun seeing Sanogo take the easiest opps I have ever witnessed at this exhibition level. Do they agree on the score before the match? Will be looking forward to the first real Europa game for replication. The dances were quite enjoyable from Sanogo but everyone will be watching and there will be many looking forward to stopping his dance. See Ramsay was quite embarrassed by it because he is someone who will seeing the big picture at all times. Remember the big picture happy hedgehogs (thought not) - enjoy the sunshine but remember the desert can be a cold place. We were three down in 10 mins yesterday on the last trialist day so all in all - well done Arsenel! ps the falling over bit from Sanogo may well be taken by some to mean ..... another post(man)

  160. Bard

    Aug 03, 2014, 12:29 #54686

    You need to read the posts first Fred before commenting. I don't think I said anything about wanting us to get hammered by Chelsea. Perhaps the argument was a little too complex for you to grasp. Let me repeat it in simpler form, the Chelsea game will give us a true indication of where we are. If we get hammered like last season I suspect Wenger may be in trouble. Hope you got it this time.

  161. WENGER HAS GOT ALONG WAY TO GO TO CONVINCE ME. (MARCUS)

    Aug 03, 2014, 12:14 #54685

    Julesd, what are you on about?? Wenger has yet to convince me because i remember those beatings we took last season. Maybe you have short term memory, NOT MY FAULT SON. If he buys a class dm and tweaks hes tactics especially away from home against the big boys than just maybe I would be more receptive . Also is not a shame to go to places like man city and get a draw. Whats wrong with that?? atleast you did not get battered. Wenger has to learn that the title is won by how well you do against your fellow rival and for the last 3 seasons against them we have been a joke. We dont struggle against the teams WE SHOULD BEAT. Its the teams above or in and around us

  162. Lord Froth

    Aug 03, 2014, 11:52 #54684

    Morning All. A good pre-season result for us then. Unfortunately I didn't get to see the game but I've read good things about Campbell, Chambers and Bellerin. I've also just discovered that we have academy strikers Afobe and Iwobi. I want them to succeed and play up front just for the commentary fun. Like Wright & Bright or Hoddle & Waddle. I'm still a child inside so I don't blame anyone else if they don't enjoy this sort of thing.

  163. jeff wright

    Aug 03, 2014, 11:09 #54683

    Well I do declare that was chicken licking good !Oh yes, all good typical on a going day Emirates Experience stuff that Benfica fun fest ... with even Postman Sanogo having a ball.He did limp off though with a Hammy .However, before us sceptics book our flights to Dreamland we want to see these sort of results in proper games against top oppo - especially away at places like United - even a 1-0 win would do - otherwise we will continue to believe that it's all really just an illusion with Hollywood back-heel flicks and little cameo dribbling against defenders standing around like statues and who can't be bothered to tackle. Agree about AOC looking the part but the same applies to him,he has to also do it at places like the bridge and not just against ordinary sides in the Emirates Experience show.

  164. Westlower

    Aug 03, 2014, 10:09 #54682

    Anyone else sickened by the constant references to Man U during the AFC v Benfica game? At times the commentators were more wrapped up how the season would go for LVG than anything going on in front of their eyes. There should be an Act of Parliament passed to inhibit commentators from mentioning them more than 90 times in games where they are not participating. It disturbs me how young kids are brainwashed by the media into becoming Mancs. Obscene!

  165. Westlower

    Aug 03, 2014, 9:21 #54681

    Increasingly impressed with the Ox & I'm sure he'll be a big player for us this season. No reason why all the younger players shouldn't be open to more improvement as they gain match experience. Yaya Sanogo could make abnormal improvement as he only played 52 games for Auxerre scoring 26 goals. For a 21 year old he is massively inexperienced & should come on a bundle with more games.

  166. julesd

    Aug 03, 2014, 8:04 #54680

    BADARSE - no red and white ribbons today, our Charlie also prefers the yellow strip, have a lovely day.

  167. Mathew

    Aug 03, 2014, 7:46 #54679

    Happy & content with the early signings made my Arsene. He ensured that we wont bite our nails until the last day of transfer window. A defensive midfielder signing will make my day and i am already excited to the new season. My only worry is about his tactics, he needs to have horses for courses.

  168. BADARSE

    Aug 03, 2014, 6:24 #54678

    Good morning julesd, nice to hear from you sweetie, and lovely sincere wishes. The day blooms like an opening flower-sunshine all the way, we hope. Tell Charlie we hope he had a good game, one to rival Arsenal's performance yesterday. Your man was impressed by young Hector, as was I. My pal couldn't stop texting. He might have typed, 'Yaya, Joel, Hector.', and just kept resending the same text. I bet many moaners were watching with contorted faces, trying to bite their noses with their lower teeth. I fear some have discovered my ruse that I wind people up for good-natured fun, life is a roast chicken lunch, with pear frangipane tart and ice cream to follow. One question, are the trimmings with the chicken just red and white ribbons? My Charlie is a yellow kit boy, so will wear last season's to the game. We will treat him to the new yellow soon. I am feeling full up. What with dismissing the WC, expecting Gerrard's men home early, (perhaps he also told Suarez that England weren't good enough for him), nailing the winners and all three of my tips reaching the S/F's, it only needed me the masked man, to leave a silver bullet, and with a 'Hi-Ho-Silver!', gallop off into the sunset. Yet no, and this is part of the wind-up, 24601 and I, and am certain I can include you, stood by Yaya and the jewel that is Joel, so my message is, 'We shall have our day!' ha ha. Will give the lads a cheer for you three-oh, and tell Charlie not to lick the chicken, it's a dead give away.

  169. julesd

    Aug 03, 2014, 5:59 #54677

    The Postman always scores FOUR us. What dribbling skills for such a big guy. I hope his critics are wiping the proverbial egg off their confused face's this morning.

  170. julesd

    Aug 03, 2014, 5:40 #54676

    5-1 and still the Dark Moonies don't sing. Guess they wont be happy until we lose?

  171. julesd

    Aug 03, 2014, 5:28 #54675

    BADARSE - we hope you and your family have a wonderful day at the Emirates, Charlie is coming for lunch so its roast chicken with all the trimmings followed by homemade pear frangipane tart and ice cream, all before we sit down to watch the Arsenal, have a great day!

  172. WENGER HAS GOT A LONG WAY TO GO TO CONVINCE ME (MARCUS)

    Aug 03, 2014, 1:51 #54674

    Look it was a great result, but boy alot of my fellow arsenal FANS our DELUSIONAL. Especially the ones on twitter. So now Sanogo is the solution to all our problems up front?? Oh dear,dear. Yes he finally scored a goal well 4 goals. In a meaningless game lol. Look we so badly need a world class dm or one a level below that. That is a position we have to strengthen in so badly. Also there seems to be alot of folks writing of manure. They will be challenging for top 4 I have no doubt about that. Under Van gal they have a proven winner who demnads respect and he will get. Hes not a failure like David Moyes, so dont write them off. I fear we our challenging for top 4 with loserpool and manure if we dont buy that dm also a striker better than giroud. I fear though that we wont buy another striker now. All in all we will really tell where we our when we play man city in community shield that is a match that will give us a closer indiction to our real level. Well our german contingent wont be playing but still we will see how close we our to man city

  173. Pete

    Aug 02, 2014, 22:59 #54673

    Maybe Bard is one of the two Jeff Wright suspects to be a chav. Come on Jeff spill the beans...My money's on MARCUS.Funny thing is many don't even see Finsbury Joe as a spud. Is it too early to talk of titles?

  174. Fred

    Aug 02, 2014, 22:10 #54672

    hahaha... hark at bard ...desperately hoping we get hammered at chelsea .... what strange supporters we have .... or is he just a follower ?

  175. BADARSE

    Aug 02, 2014, 21:19 #54671

    Pete, Monaco will need a two goal victory over us to clinch it. Benfica would need a 5 goal victory to overhaul us, so Valencia are the dark horses a two goal victory drags them level, unless we score. Want the little ones to see us lift a trophy. Nice to keep the feel good factor going too. The lads did well enough today. Some very interesting performances. Goood old Arsenal.

  176. Tay Garnett

    Aug 02, 2014, 21:02 #54670

    The Postman always falls over twice.

  177. BADARSE

    Aug 02, 2014, 20:38 #54669

    I am the real! Tiger lilies and peach blossom I set about your shoulders, my dear little mountain goats. I am the Deli Llama a typing camel-like creature, with cheeses and cold sliced meats. Someone said this is not all about U, I know that, U is in deep meditation hanging bat-like in the pantry. Is difficult to be shaven-headed when cries of, 'Cue ball', ring incessantly throughout the temple. I light candle and Sneezy blow it out with his 'kerchoo' many times. Mom, manu paddy hums! Is very unfair on manu paddy-not his stinky fault. Oh Bard, I sprinkle rose water on your fevered and understanding brow, I rain 50p pieces on the heads of those standing in shadow. Any offerings of extended weekend breaks on Sleezy jet is open to my heart and back pocket, my children. I did say in my ministrations the one Sanogo if he broke his duck it would be a quick quack, Huey, Louie and Dewey. He had a hat trick then in Arsene-style found a fourth. Cruel, jewel, Joel. Promoted and supported, I had leanings of faith in you and U- rest easy in your golden slumbers, and welcome to the summit. Om Bellerin, 'Arry Redknap.

  178. Pete

    Aug 02, 2014, 20:24 #54668

    Never mind WOB maybe Arsenal will slip up tomorrow and you'll all have some more mud to sling..Doubt it though.

  179. Gooner Hawkings

    Aug 02, 2014, 20:10 #54667

    Can you imagine a world where players can actually run with the ball. Well it happened today. Sanogo, once a postman who could actually put letters through letter boxes .....

  180. Westlower

    Aug 02, 2014, 19:23 #54666

    What an attacking talent Hector Bellerin is. It's easy to see why Jenks has been loaned at for a season. Chambers looks the part, and Sanogo must have surprised a few people with his ability to run with the ball.

  181. A Cornish Gooner

    Aug 02, 2014, 19:10 #54665

    BARD. So do you want your 50p back?

  182. Bardarse

    Aug 02, 2014, 18:49 #54664

    So now you know.

  183. Bard

    Aug 02, 2014, 18:29 #54663

    We are in desperate need of some real football. These posts are getting a touch crazy. Dear old Badarse loves to wind everyone up with his philosophy and preachings and the frustrated on here fall for it every time. His posts are all tongue in cheek guys so relax. Lets stay focused on the real stuff, who is in and who is out. We play Chelsea at their place soon enough and all will be revealed. Another hammering like last season will signal the end for our leader. Deification will be replaced by calls for the sack. Hubris and delusion always have an ugly ending.

  184. jjetplane

    Aug 02, 2014, 18:17 #54662

    Your confusion little BADDIE is your inability to see the post is not about you or even OGL but about the greater picture you so Platonically like to deliver to us poor, blind folk in caves of our own making. Surely you know blue drinks are all the rage for the kids and Pumas do stubbornly stalk the Holloway road as we speak. If you can create an idyll while all about you is broken then well done mate. I have sent my contribution to CORNISH GooNER We await your sermons not from some hill but more - from the clouds themselves. If you see Arsene up there please just utter this word: 'Why?' ps The Ryman League - give us a couple of seasons but by then the manager will be an irritation best rid of ......

  185. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2014, 17:56 #54661

    BADARSE 57836, and it's still happening, to the gullible anyway.

  186. A Cornish Gooner

    Aug 02, 2014, 16:29 #54660

    BADARSE. I’ve taken the liberty of buying you a plane ticket to Tibet (one way of course) It leaves Gatwick on Friday 15th at 13.15 and arrives at Lhasa Gonggar airport 16.15 local time. The cost was £987, but I’m sure there are enough online gooner readers that would be happy to contribute. So say 50p each should cover it, which would probably give you some spending money too. I’ll put the ticket in the post. Have a nice trip.

  187. jeff wright

    Aug 02, 2014, 16:02 #54659

    Badarse, have you considered becoming a Tibetan Monk? You appear to have all the qualities that are required to become one. You being a shaven headed experienced chanter of dogmatic mantras .. possessed of a devoted religious type fanaticism... you're also a teetotaler with a hide thicker than a Rhino's... your schadenfreude psychosis would obviously need some attention but hey no doubt some way could be found to channel this into a more productive direction by mocking the Chinese Red Army ... when engaged in group chanting with fellow hooded robed monks chanting with you around a fire in your cave at night... Arsene... om mani padme hung... guba mutter stutter...

  188. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2014, 15:31 #54658

    BADARSE, that doesn't surprise me, you really are spending far to much time in margate with your face painted, wearing robes and chanting.

  189. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2014, 15:17 #54657

    Pete, certainly agree with with you on the contribution of England players at the WC, not sure if wally would have been much better, he couldn't have been any worse but he would have had plenty to say afterwards.

  190. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2014, 15:02 #54656

    Cyril, he's had far far to many benefit of the doubts, but nice one.

  191. BADARSE

    Aug 02, 2014, 14:58 #54655

    Quite an amusing scenario 24601. Alternatively, if a rogue state/group found a way to supply TV-footie for next to nowt then the whole edifice would come tumbling down. Then everything would change, apart from Ron visiting Goodison, er, and jj enjoying the Ryman's League, er, and jeff wright yawning his way through life, er and maguiresbridge blaming El Nino on Arsene...oh boy, nothing stays the same, but if you're willing to play the game, it's coming around again! Only kidding gents. Namastay!

  192. Westlower

    Aug 02, 2014, 14:41 #54654

    @Ron, If and when the PL clubs are reduced to 3 places in CL that may well be the trigger for the formation of a European League, with sponsors & TV companies gagging for a share of the action. World wide sales to Asia & America will be too much of a temptation to resist for those investing mega bucks into football. The Euro league will be a precursor to the inevitable world wide league. It would become a major threat to FIFA's dominance of the game with International tournaments diluted in importance. The PL would then become a feeder league for the Euro big boys. The Sours feeding their best players to their near neighbours will be amusing. At this juncture Gooners will be eternally grateful for the present regime keeping us in pace with the upper echelon's of Europe, a consistent 4th place is probably the best prize AFC will have ever achieved. Times, they are a changing! Daniel Levy will have built a new stadium for the best of the rest league. You missed the boat Daniel!

  193. BADARSE

    Aug 02, 2014, 14:36 #54653

    Well jeff wright, whilst understanding my point or not you have lapsed again. 'Theo shoots his mouth off', (he is just a silly young boy-no crime there, is there?), then it's 'the French, who get carried away', (meaning they too shoot their mouths off), in which case both Arsene and Theo would be in good company posting on here, one French as you lucidly point out, one not, which you omitted to mention. As for you Kashky, not for the first time am I confused by your post. No multinational products for us, no fizzy drinks, no meat, no tattoos, just unadulterated, old-fashioned family football fun, (excuse the alliteration). The pointlessness is directed at the people who rant, rave and are hair-pulling themselves through life. It is natural and very human but pointless. So surely we should try to conserve and spend the energy and emotions in a more productive fashion, non? With all that said I slip into joyous mode every time I take my shoulder from the wheel. That too is quite natural. Why post on here? A good release for me. I learn and hopefully on rare occasions teach. All pretty pointless I would say, but if life is about the journey rather than the arriving, my journey perhaps becomes a little more scenic, perhaps even rewarding. On Kos I complimented the Owl family's little two years old boy. I pretended to write down how well he ate at the table-I conveniently had a notebook and pen in hand. My wife later engaged with the family and asked the little chap if he knew who I was, (No, he didn't say BADARSE), she told him I was a secret helper for Santa, and would tell Father Xmas that he was a very good boy. Respect! He looked at me wide-eyed after that, and we had a few chats. Pointless? Pretty much, but enjoyable. Just be, Kashky, just be.

  194. Pete

    Aug 02, 2014, 14:25 #54652

    I wondered how long it would take to get back to the Wenger,4th place yawn chat...Slagging off spuds and manure is far more fun.

  195. jjetplane

    Aug 02, 2014, 13:52 #54651

    If it is so pointless BADDIE why are you still at it on here? Do you really think you have a upper hand. Thought not and as you were old boy. Enjoy the hot dog race at half time and get those Puma cheerleaders. Whatever happened to the police band while we had one ejection a minute from the north bank. '...you're breaking me arm you ****ing tosser ...' Oh the days. Now it's cheese strings and blue coloured drinks while smoking Jack hops to another photo shoot. Oh my stupid and pointless tattoos..... right, off to the last friendly (Halstead) before the glory trail starts.

  196. Ron

    Aug 02, 2014, 13:51 #54650

    Morning guys. Good to see the carousel's still turning fella's. You d think we 'd tire of it wouldn't you, but there s no sign of anybody withdrawing their position and suggesting a truce!! Henry 1V must have felt this way at the battle of Shrewsbury fellas!!ha. Just a point though. How long does the PL keep this 4th place entry to the CL? Cant be much longer now surely? Westie? Do you know? Ltd to 3 spots would liven things up wouldnt it?

  197. jeff wright

    Aug 02, 2014, 13:34 #54649

    Okay Baddie fair enough if you really believe that. My view is, and I am being charitable here, that fortunately the change of rules in the European Cup also changed the rules of engagement regarding what constitutes success now,against say in GG or Mee's time. The FAC win last term came to Arsene's rescue because the old 4th place trophy was getting to be a bit boring for many . Illusionists can only do the same trick so many times before the audience start to suss it out and to start grumbling or even yawning. Also with the spuds not threatening to snatch the 4th place trophy of us , and with Pulis having already shot down Martinez's unlikely challenge , the old 4th place trophy could not be dressed up with a bit of drama at the death to make it appear more exciting than in reality it really is. This season Wenger needs to keep schtum if ahead of the pack at some stage,the signs are not good though on this happening though with Theo already shooting from the lip,and Arsene is French and they do tend to get a bit carried away with things. The time to start talking up a title win is if we are in with a chance of doing it on the last day ,not six months before .However, looking at the early season fixtures it looks unlikely that we will be 7 points clear come December in the Prem this time around.

  198. BADARSE

    Aug 02, 2014, 13:01 #54648

    Afternoon jeff wright, yes I guess you are correct my friend. We all look for mirror images in most aspects of life, though usually are wise enough not to be seduced by the 'Magic Mirror on the wall', lament. I think broadly speaking Geoff is entirely correct in his post. Listen, I am disgusted by much which passes for 'normal' business behaviour, and dismayed at the inabilities of innocents to recognise the ugliness surrounding them, which often borders on the obscene. However one person cannot save the world so I disengage wherever and whenever possible. If I play Monopoly I have to play by the rules of the game, object being to win. So much gnashing of teeth and wailing on here is akin to someone throwing the Monopoly board across the room because they have been sent direct to jail. Pointless! 'When I wake up early in the morning, lift my head, I'm still yawning...'

  199. jeff wright

    Aug 02, 2014, 12:49 #54647

    Baddie,I suppose that just because Geoff's post happens to reflect your own views on how you see events at AFC having transpired, since the move from Highbury, that this would not have any thing to do with your praise ? My view is that it's another post from Dreamland that Chris , Westie, or even you could have written. In other words just the same old excuses ( yawn)and finger wagging admonishments at the sceptics.I know it's not Pete the troll's work because it's not paranoid enough!

  200. BADARSE

    Aug 02, 2014, 12:22 #54646

    maguiresbridge, what does TKOS mean, it reminds me of Tea on Kos, mmm, time for another cuppa Rosie. I'm not very good at acronyms. I was OK with the AA, but then it got a little more complicated with the AAA.

  201. Pete

    Aug 02, 2014, 11:30 #54645

    Who can forget the disgraceful 9 (nine) penalties Riley gave Manure himself (a record which will never be beaten)to help an average team finish above Arsenal in 03. Van Nistle Dive couldn't believe his luck.

  202. BADARSE

    Aug 02, 2014, 11:11 #54644

    The two best posts on this article for me is the opening one by Geoff, and the last by 7KG. Well done gentlemen.

  203. Pete

    Aug 02, 2014, 11:11 #54643

    The sours are the great deceivers. They have always bought big since the sixties,one or two big names to go with their 7 or 8 championship players,thus creating the illusion that their a big side who play great football. Which has always been a lie as their greatest success came when they had a lump up front and a midfielder named Mackay who went around strangling and kicking lumps out of opponents in the early sixties. Their best team was the one created by Joe Hulme who got them playing proper football in the late 40's only for Arthur Rowe to come along the following season and take them to their first title. They get away with murder with their finances and their pricing because the media are always so interested in picking out what Arsenal are doing.

  204. Seven Kings Gooner

    Aug 02, 2014, 10:58 #54642

    Ron : you are so right about that OT game - I would love to sit Mike Riley down in a darkened room and go through that game frame by frame, foul by foul. The treatment meted out to Reyes that day was nothing short of GBH and the Rooney penalty was like something out of "The likely lads". More serious though for me, was United being allowed to opt out of the FA cup a few years earlier, to help England's bid to land the world cup, from that moment on not only did Fergie have some refs in his pocket he had the whole bloody FA on side!

  205. BADARSE

    Aug 02, 2014, 10:49 #54641

    Evening Athoz. Oranges and Sunshine I know of and will see sometime soon. A plight dear to my crusading heart; those poor brutalised youngsters. Not interested in the games chum, but pleased for those who are. I do like the idea of 'a common wealth' though. My interest would be up the road at the Edinburgh Fringe, as if we haven't got enough jokers and clowns running the world at the moment-Gaza, Ukraine anyone? Yes Aston Villa are the pedigree club, of course. Oh and 24601, I can trump that story-I had lunch with Ulrika some years ago.

  206. Westlower

    Aug 02, 2014, 10:00 #54640

    @Ron, I totally concur that Villa are a class act. Many fond memories of visits to Villa Park. Back in the late 90's I was invited to lunch in the Corner Flag restaurant. Even on that day with no football taking place you could sense the history of the club the moment you enter the ground. Later in the week I was a guest at the Villa v AFC game. The big attraction on the day was Ulrika Johnson, Stan Collymore's girlfriend at the time, who was sitting behind us. Most of the Villans spent more time eyeballing her than watching the game. It's a shame the club have fallen back from where they once were. Their history is far greater than the Sours IMO. Villa's biggest problem going forward is the difficulty in ever attracting top players to join them.

  207. Ozzie

    Aug 02, 2014, 8:26 #54639

    Thanks, Baddie, I'm a weepy ole sod! May I recommend one for you: Oranges & Sunshine - maybe not news to you but quite revealing. Are you keeping those shifty eyes away from those Scottish kilts? :-)

  208. BADARSE

    Aug 02, 2014, 7:03 #54638

    @AMG the brainwashing is all around chum, historians, governments, religions and all establishments have been doing it to the gullible for centuries. Now multinationals and large corporations do it by rote-this is where the battles must be fought. Years ago Sky would show us conceding a goal and McDonalds United scoring one whilst advertising CL games. Murdoch's involvement was complicit. Spot one dodgy smokescreen of lies and you will see through many more , I guarantee that. @Pete, Beatles and Doors, am intrigued-good choices. Evening Athoz. Knew Philomena would register with you both, it was just a matter of how deeply. Pleased you enjoyed my chilly friend. Peace Young Gun.

  209. Ozzie

    Aug 02, 2014, 6:01 #54637

    Pete, too hot to sleep? Global warming in England, huh? Here near Melbourne it is snowing. Whoever turned the Earth upside down is welcome to push the Gooners up three more rungs. Baddie, the wife and I enjoyed Philomena - Peace brother. xx

  210. Marco Reus

    Aug 02, 2014, 3:26 #54636

    Liverpool signed Lovren and Southamton are after Rojo. Quality CB and LB, both tough players with physicality and no nonsense defenders we nees. Tottenham after S chniederlin athletic strong midfielder we need, Keylor Navas to RM top quality GK we need to replace Sczesny, Mertesacker, Gibbs, Arteta very average players we have. All obvious signings yet Wenger never does the obvious does he.

  211. Pete

    Aug 02, 2014, 1:36 #54635

    I think you're being a bit hard on Wally Maguire.When you see what some of the so called stars of ths years WC contributed Walcott's an excellent player.Too hot to sleep so been listening to the Beatles and The Doors.

  212. Cyril

    Aug 02, 2014, 1:29 #54634

    Wenger, I am starting to like u again.You have really upset me over the years - you know! However I am I willing to give u the benefit of my personal doubt. I EXPECT u to do well whilst u remain the manager of my club. I don't want any more rubbish from you. As an English man, u have insulted me more than I care to imagine. You have 3 years left with us and u better repair the psychological damage I have seen. After, piss off and never darken my door again!

  213. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2014, 1:22 #54633

    Yes Ron, if only wally could play the game as good as he talks it, how many seasons is it now he's talked a good game, and has yet to back it up. And he hasn't even started and he's at it already, and no doubt it will be lapped up.TKOS dream.

  214. Pete

    Aug 02, 2014, 0:19 #54632

    I've always thought Arsenal have class the way they never criticise other clubs publicly. I always thought the way Arsenal as a club and their fans are vocally towards other teams is second to none. Man Utd and Chelsea have always fallen well short in this regards as to have Liverpool with their captain Gerrard saying that Suarez was too good for Arsenal.Shows a real lack of class and makes Liverpool look small time.I've also always thought this is where Wenger is miles ahead of the likes of Fergie, Mourinho and Rodgers in the way he's not interested in verbals.

  215. DW Thomas

    Aug 01, 2014, 22:24 #54631

    Wasting no more words: Khedira, replace TV, stay injury free, another top striker and we have a shot. Other than that, it looks all very, eerily similar. Next it's wait and see time. "Judge me in May" has never been so true. And if that's what we should do, what happens if we fail, again? All good things eventually come to an end. Sad, but then new good things, sometimes better things can begin!

  216. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 21:55 #54630

    Pete - i can only think of Bham City fans (not all of course) who have the same neanderththal mentality of many Spuds fans and of course we see its worse effects at any home loss in the NLD derby dont we. In Bham Villa are the cosmopolitan Club with all of the big support and tradition and in my view theyre quite a classy Club too i always think. Bham are a grotty Club who have nil history of note and are riven with envy and torn up inside by it. Aston Villa would still have the tradition and pedigree and still be better thought of if they played in the Ryman Lge and Bham City know it. Ive long thought Spurs fans feel and know that the same applies. In fact i often like to remind them. Its satisfying watching them foam like rabid dogs at the mouth while i know that they know its true. What a horrible Club they are!

  217. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 21:37 #54629

    Badarse - Yes, ive met so very many who think like that Leeds fan pal and believe this too, ive met a few Spuds in my time who think the same yet keep it under wraps for the most part!

  218. AMG

    Aug 01, 2014, 21:25 #54628

    BADARSE, BT certainly seem to have it in for us. All of their 'enticers' are of Arsenal thrashings. Did nothing else of note happen last season? Give it a rest BT, no one likes you or your sport coverage! Don't even get me started on Jake Humphrey, that guy steals a living.

  219. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 21:25 #54627

    Evening Westie - glad youre back. Yes agree totally that Euro/foreign refs are better. I think the 'media circus' element of football we see here hasn't infected them and they care not for it anyway as a result. I think the integrity in football is far higher abroad (i can only speak for Europeans footie of course) and the refs reflect it. The Refs for CL games of course are referred by non nationals of each team and that helps i suppose. PS Mate - Id love to be a ref for day and have a match to choose. It would be Man U v Arsenal at OT. Score 7-6 to us. Arsenal 4 pens. Man Utd down to 9 men by the 60th minute mark. Ive sent 2 off for very dubious reasons. One is Rooney. We are 5-0 up at the 55 min mark, 5-1 at 60 mins and 6-1 at 75 mins. They storm back to make it 6-6 by the 89 th minute as we stage a collapse (like my teams middle order batting most Sundays!) of epic proportion. I then give the most blatant bad decision to award us a pen which we miss and the Stretford End explodes. It was properly taken and the Keeper never breached any rule but i award it to be re taken on the basis of a technicality. I saw Fletchers foot inside the box as the kick was taken. I didnt really, but thats my decision. Arteta buries the re taken kick to win the game. I walk smugly off smiling like a Cheshire cat on speed and as i leave the pitch i look up at Mike Riley who's there analyzing and slowly raise my middle finger, lifting my ref shirt to show a vest emblazoned with 'game 49 you bent bas---d' on it. Ill never ever forget being there that afternoon . He was got at that day and ill never change that view as long as i live mate.

  220. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 21:22 #54626

    Nice one Pete. REDnecks, ha ha. Got the type of individuals, and the colour right. Ron just to give credence to certain individuals, on Kos we sat near a little family from Leeds. The two nippers 12 and 10 were remarkably aware of facts and names. The chap admitted to liking Arsenal as the only club outside of Leeds Utd, mainly due to the way we play, but also to the way we are, (I think he meant the way we conduct ourselves). A second family we bumped into and had a few chats with, albeit brief, were from Sheffield. I referred to them as the Owl family. The Dad/Grandad admitted that the 1993 double loss still haunts him, the wound is still open. How beautifully odd we footie fans are. He had the deepest respect for Arsenal, Arsene, and my little family. Sometimes it's nice to just be, as Pooh might say.

  221. Pete

    Aug 01, 2014, 21:05 #54625

    Agree entirely with what your saying BADARSE about ref cheating.Manure used to wind me up so much in the ninetees and noughties with Don Fergus and his influences in the wide blue yonder. As far as supporters of other teams are concerned,I get on with most except spuds. They remind me of rednecks from the deep south of America and can't believe they're so close geographically to us.

  222. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 21:01 #54624

    Evening Badarse - i take all of your points too. Good post. Trying to find that bias from wherever it originates is like trying to nail blancmange to a wall really mate. Bias can be finely, almost invisibly applied, yet have great implications cant it. The North South thing is a strange phenomena. I consider myself as having lived it and seen it in action as ive not lived in or near London since 1983 and more or less have lived everywhere else!! I like to think i can gauge its virility a little. I have to say that there is so much of the more venomous expressions of dislike from Southerners towards northerners im afraid and as a lad i used to indulge in a bit of it, travelling away to see the Arsenal. I find most Northerners, except Man Utd fans who dislike us intensely in most instances though not all by any means, are tending to look favorably upon us as a Club and i know for sure that Arsenal are very well respected on Merseyside by blue and red, yet Arsenal fans throw the bile in the other direction. Applying this to northern based refs i don't accept there's bias from them. Its long been popular amongst us Gunners to say everybody hates us bla bla. They dont, but many fans of other Clubs are a bit jealous ive long believed. I could line up droves of other Clubs fans who have seen Arsenal get many a dodgy decision given to them and being an honest (i like to think anyway) type of bloke, ive seen many decisions favour us too down the years, esp at Highbury/Grove but often away from home as well. The fact is all Clubs claim bias towards them yet never shout loudly when they see possible bias operate in their favour, such is the madness of footie.I suppose we re wandering off Westie s point a bit but trying not too mate.As you rightly say there are no truths on this but we as a top Club are often given the benefit of the doubt v the Albions, Norwichs and higher up v the Evertons and Toons of this World. Ive seen it so often with my own eyes mate.We can only judge by our experiences can we not.

  223. Westlower

    Aug 01, 2014, 20:57 #54623

    @Ron The FA have introduced a total ban on football gambling by all players & coaches. Largely a cosmetic act as I don't believe betting is a major problem in the PL. I agree refs have an unenviable task and are hamstrung by having to perform to satisfy an agenda set by Mike Riley & co. At different stages of the season, refs are reluctant to dish out cards or ignore shirt pulling. At other times they take a contrary view. The rules don't change but I believe their agenda does. I find the officials decision making in the ECL is more consistent than in the PL.

  224. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 20:18 #54622

    Once more you have much to say Ron. You speak in convincing terms and have in my opinion a strong argument. However I disagree with the simple point in question, that of bias. I move in circles outside of the N5 comfort zone-always have-and have met with unbridled and blinkered opposition to AFC. I am sure many have no idea why they have a genuine distaste for Arsenal, my random guesses armed with simple deductions perhaps would furnish a reason. The point is this acrimony towards Arsenal is real and often tangible. As I am wont to recognise and accept, refs are human, fallible and prone to influencing, and are subject to the same idiosyncratic complexities as ordinary folk. The game has all but moved beyond human control, with it's speed and the bending of reshaped rules. There still exists a north/south divide, even though it is generally muted. That can be enough to just shade a decision. A degree of these and the balance of power shifts. How often have we heard legitimate pundit analysis in which it is accepted that, 'the ref gave that to even up his earlier decision.' If a statement like that has credence, and it must as no one ever challenges it, then similar decisions could be made, and probably are, with an end result in mind. All debateable and inconclusive, but in a nutshell whilst recognising all those valid points you made, I still adhere to the view that overall we fall the wrong side of less than a fair share of key decisions. Cannot be proven, or disproven though my friend.

  225. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 20:06 #54621

    Pete - Chelsea seemed to be spoken of a lot in the 6 years JM was away buddy. Tend to agree on Costa. Bit unsure about him too. I think they'll win the title nontheless this time. Chelsea, City, Liverpool, and either of Manure/ Arsenal for 4th. Ask Westie for your odds.

  226. Pete

    Aug 01, 2014, 19:54 #54620

    MARCUS:Manure will no way challenge this year, they will be lucky to get top 4. Chelsea are a team who if Maureen wasn't their manager no one would care about or even mention and IMHO have just signed the biggest waste of time striker in International football in no goals Costa.

  227. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 19:35 #54619

    Hi Westie - Refs are twisted inside out, compromised, insulted, abused and left unguarded and undefended and left to just face it all in the face of vile,cheating, conning foul mouthed players and coaches (and fans) who lack little to any common decency and to cap it all these moronic elements barely know the rules of the game themselves. Add to this the governing body of the game who change the rules willy nilly to suit televisions needs and you've a concoction that cant possibly lend itself to sound refereeing. The cheating and conning is accepted by the powers that be as they've lost control of the mega rich players and coaches and fear them. All of this pressure leaves reffing to be an awful task, an impossible task really and the poor old ref has no sanctions to impose on the sea of sh--te that he faces every week end. Ive no doubt that there's the odd bent one (i believe quite a few games are fixed) too but not many. The training for refs is quite a loose thing too as the profession isn't given any value. We have refs stuck in the 1950s trying to operate in a modern game thats lost all of its sanity and values. The two facets are never going to meet. I cant buy your geographical theory mate and anyway, they might live where you say, but where are their allegiances and where were they born? Geography is meaningless now mate. The levels and clever types of manipulations that refs are subjected to in the games at the top end must be immense. Its bad enough at local/semi pro level and even at juvenile footie level, i can assure you mate. Id love to put a few of these Hansens and Shearers in the middle for a few games and also would love it to see a few of these Coaches ref a game or two. They wouldn't last half an hour i venture. Refs should be allowed to speak after games and offer up an unbridled view of what they believe happened that brought their decisions to games. They should be allowed to do it without fear of sanction. It ll never happen because the powers and dark forces who run the game don't want the black side of the game and individuals in it exposed. The gag on refs has nothing at all to do with protecting them from being professionally conflicted as per the official line that's peddled, its about protecting those who priority from football.The games rotten to the core mate.

  228. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 19:11 #54618

    Well done MARCUS, you began quietly and only occasionally started shouting. Actually your points are reasonable and time alone will tell what players arrive or leave. I personally think Chelsea may win it next season, though I did this one but was mistaken-fine lines and all that. I think we all still agree that a strong DM would change our perspective. However you could buy one and lose him through injury immediately, so we have to be balanced and rational in our assessment and desires. Let's see how it plays out chum.Now with me, through pursed lips and without blowing bubbles, 'Silence is golden...'

  229. Bard

    Aug 01, 2014, 18:52 #54617

    Marcus; I agree mate but don't worry too much about Man U, unless they spend a shedload and they will have to because everyman and his dog knows they are 4/5 light they won't be in the hunt. LVG is a great talker but they have a crap defence and ****e midfield. I don't see them in the mix. I think we just have to wait and see whether Wenger has an ace up his sleeve. If TVM goes he will have to buy and other CB. My understanding of the transfer market is that there is a lot of poker going on in Aug as players and agents bluff and counter bluff to get the best deal, thats where Khedira is I reckon. The other factor that needs considering is that our Germans won't be back for some while and won't be match fit for even longer. I can't see Chambers being thrust in at CB for BFG. We have a toughish start and Wenger will surely realise that we can't be too far off the pace at the beginning of the season otherwise he will get some serious stick so Im cautiously optimistic that we may get a signing or two.

  230. Bard

    Aug 01, 2014, 18:32 #54616

    Point taken Westie. I agree about Refs and Fergie thats for sure. Ron et all yes the defence is a problem but defending is also a team attitude. Despite all the excitement about Barca and Messi their defending high up the pitch was terrific. they suffocated the hell out of teams. It also highlights the need for not only steel but nous in the middle of the field. Flamini has never been more than a journeyman in the DM role and the idea that Arteta ,good soul though he is can also play that role is ridiculous. You think Makele, Gilberto and others as your benchmark. Maureen sometimes plays 2 in that space. I just don't think Wenger gets that area of the game. If you are going to beat the top teams you need to be rock solid in that dept.

  231. WENGER HAS GOT ALONG WAY TO GO TO CONVINCE ME. (MARCUS)

    Aug 01, 2014, 18:31 #54615

    Look so far we have only bought one surplus player and that is Sanchez. All the other players we have bought we HAD to buy them as replacement and wenger would not have bought them if we did not lose the players we lost in the first place. Also we DESPERATELY need a world class or just a level below that defensive midfielder. Arteta is not the solution nor is Flamini. Where do I start with those two. Well Arteta looks like he is running in quick sand. He has no pace what so ever and lacks the necessary power and athleticism needed for that position.Also when we played against the New York red bulls Hnery made him to look very,very ordinary indeed it was down right embarrassing. Lets not forget here that Henry is now 36, this not vintage 2004, 26 year old Henry were talking about here folks. Also Flamini is just plain technically weak and cant pass the ball forward to save his life, also hes to hot tempered and red card prone. CLEARLY NOT THE ANSWER. Also all this talk of Wilshere playing as a defensive mid has got to be a wind up surely?? The lad cant defend to save his own life let alone tackle for Gods sake. He will get injured doing it smh. WE HAVE TO REENFORCE in that position its a given. I fear if we dont we might not even get 4th let alone think about winning the league. Every team that finished above us has strengthened and if Manure get Vidal and Hummels I believe they can win the league let alone finish in the top 4. Now on to Giroud smh lool. Who in their right mind believes we can win the league with him up front?? You saw what happened to him when he has world class ability ahead of him for france, he gets dropped to the bench were I believe he should be for us. He should not be our main striker especially for any team that harbors any ambitions of winning the pl. HE SIMPLY HAS NOT GOT THE REQUIRED MINERALS TO LEAD THE FRONTLINE OF A TEAM THAT WANTS TO WIN THE LEAGUE. Its all good scoring against teams we should beat i.e west ham, sunderland, aston villa etc. Can you do that against the teams in and around us and above us i.e Chelsea, man city, etc. The answer for Giroud so far in hes 2 two years at arsenal is NO!! If we buy that necessary dm and hopefully a striker who is better than giroud than we have a chance of CHALLENGING FOR THE PL. If we dont i fear it will be another groundhog season. I hate Chelsea but I fear they will win the league. Also I hate that maureen fella, but lets be honest here if he was our manager last season we would not have taken those heavy defeats which bt sports seem to enjoy rubbing our faces in them constantly. Folks I we all know wenger has been given three more years so we have to get on with it, but boy these next 3 years our big years for him and hes team and he knows it.

  232. jeff wright

    Aug 01, 2014, 17:53 #54614

    Hi Ron, agree that our defence still looks suspect and zonal marking ,judging by Saturday nights debacle in New York on that Henry ( ouch!) taken corner ,is still alive and well. Wenger hinted in his own inimitable way during today's gentle inquisition by a Sky Muppet that Tommy Vermin maybe off,this is of course the worst kept secret in football and it looks like only a decent offer is keeping Verm still chained up in his kennel. Wenger says however that he will have to replace the Belgian .More dithering about he should be getting this sorted with the German AWOL until after the season starts - and he will not be match fit anyway . Also agree on your points about Walcott sending out warnings to other sides ,the truth is that United, Stoke,City,Liverpool,Chelsea and Everton all beat us in our games away to them last term and this was down to poor Wenger's poor defensive organization . Wenger said today that the Prem title race was a close finish ,alluding to us being involved by claiming that we 'were consistent' . Obviously so , at losing away ! Tbh,all I see and hear from Wenger is no more than an attempt to try and improve the current players efforts, because the signings that he has made will not on their own make any great difference. The defence will still be the same one that collapsed in away games last season with the slow German and Kos being the mainstay of it. Perhaps the new GK will prove an improvement in that department over the erratic Chesnay , if Wenger uses him .

  233. jjetplane

    Aug 01, 2014, 17:37 #54613

    Yes RON it is a shame as it would have been good to see the saints progressing and I think you are right - these players should get some good games under their belts before the big lights call. Am very impressed that Barkley who I think is fantastic, will be staying at Everton. he knows he is with a good coach who will him no wrong. power to him and Everton who I shall be watching out for. Think perhaps even the Sours are going in a more sensible direction (oh ****ing what!) but any competition from anywhere is good for the top level which has turned to simple spectacle for it's money thrill. Bit like that Bale moment last season. He can live off that until he decides he needs another intervention. I think it's that clinical. Also expect Liverpool to come in a dominant mood and imagine the Chelskis and Citehs of this world will be more worried about them than a still, softish Arsenal (Wenger's way). Jury out for the Dutchman but interesting to see if he can turn on the unity we saw in the WC. I know you have your football and coaching and I have my local stuff and we watch from afar. You off to see the Toffees - should be interesting.

  234. Westlower

    Aug 01, 2014, 17:24 #54612

    @Bard, I hope you were able to work out I omitted the words 'in europe.' Should have read, 'It amuses me that Man U don't get the favours from officials in europe that they are used to domestically.' Fergie's intimidation had little or no effect on foreign refs. Apologies for my incomplete sentence but it's difficult to concentrate on posting while watching & betting on horse racing. I'm just an average bloke and can only fulfill one task at a time + I'm old. I should really stop posting until the horse race flat season finishes in November.

  235. Westlower

    Aug 01, 2014, 17:04 #54611

    @Bard, I believe the current crop of refs are mediocre and influence the outcome of too many games. Until we get video playback and get the correct decision instead of the 'desired' decision I'll doubtless continue to scream' we wuz robbed.' It amuses me that Man U don't get the favours from the officials that they are used to domestically. The majority of refs originate or currently live in the north west but I'm sure you'll tell me that is mere coincidence. Anthony Taylor lives!!!!!

  236. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 16:59 #54610

    Bard - he s basically saying that Sanchez is just more of what we ve got and that buying him is a mistake as hes not what Arsenal need in his view. Strangely, he said we need somebody like Giroud? I think he meant a player of that ilk but far better, to give him the benefit of the doubt. Agree with you re midfield, but i still reckon that defence is a disaster waiting to happen v the better sides. We ve all droned on till we re blue in the gills though haven't we. Its over to you Mr W now i suppose. Note - Walcott spouting off already as he does i.e ' teams will be fearing him and Sanchez'. Oh dear, why doesn't some body shut the glass backed idiot up?

  237. Bard

    Aug 01, 2014, 16:43 #54609

    Hi Ron I didn't as it happens, although i will have a look later. What I do know is that Sanchez isn't Messi but he may be a very good player and certainly a lot better than what we have. On his own he won't make much difference. What will make a difference is if we add some steel to the midfield.

  238. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 16:23 #54608

    JJ - Interesting stuff at Saints. Its a great pity i feel. It shows the shallowness of football for me mate. I know im always going on about why ive turned away from it in the main, but really, loads of promising players who've achieved nothing thus far all running for the door and why? For the cash of course in the main. A good Club left to flounder and maybe even to go down. The sheer lack of class and even limited loyalty smells badly. Ambition is great but a guy with 25 games under his belt like this Chambers kid? Why a move for him now? Why not build some credibility with his Club and then move when he has proven hes cut out for better things? I find it pathetic really. Walcott was the same. I believe his move has stunted his career. A couple of years at Saints would have helped.

  239. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 16:08 #54607

    Hi Bard - Mr Silvestre himself, the icon, has even cast doubt on the buying of Sanchez. What more evidence is needed when such an authority speaks! Joking aside, i reckon Silvestre has a point. (im guessing that you read his view?)

  240. jjetplane

    Aug 01, 2014, 15:40 #54606

    Did some hiking not so long ago in Canyon de Chelley, Zion Park and Bryce Canyon. Did a really big walk on the rim of Grand Canyon too. There really is something so amazing about these places. At the time I was a student in Kansas! & reading Louis Erdrich, Dee Brown amongst others for one of those 'why not' experiences. Must go back again though my favourite was Yosemite when I was a lot younger. Anyway, back to Football. Mindblowing that Saints sell-off and have just been invited to Emirates but am working and have a few big games coming up 'down our way'. All very exciting! Now about Arsene ....... WESTIe have relatives in NM but have never got down that way. Your reverie makes me wanna ....

  241. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 15:39 #54605

    Sounds a very reasonable objective Bard. What happens if on at least one occasion we buckle? Seriously, your requirements/demands are similarly vouched for here in the sunlight, so step across. maguiresbridge has edged a little closer to the door, mesmerised by the light streaming in. He too hears the sound of tambourine and much frolicking in the long grass. Whoops, said the wrong thing again, jj is skulking nearby, ready to also make a dash into the sunshine. Dark Moonies be gone. Now all link arms, lift your right leg and shake your foot until your shoe falls off, then barefoot we can chant a few 'Arrys together. You spotted that about westlower. I knew I needed to change his batteries sooner. Now then, 'Kum bah ya...'

  242. Bard

    Aug 01, 2014, 15:25 #54604

    What a curious bunch of posts, must be the hot weather. RJ, I for one am not disappointed with the business so far, on the other hand neither am i particularly excited. My hopes for the season are as follows. I hope we don't get spanked again, I hope we don't collapse as has been the case for the last few seasons and I hope we show some true grit in the big games. They are modest but realistic. Westie you seem to have developed a curious notion of attitudes to wining and losing if last seasons posts are anything to go by. I didn't see much acceptance of defeat in the those it was all variations on 'we wuz robbed'. Pens not given, poor refereeing, bad luck with injuries etc etc. Interestingly many of your posts could have been ghost-written by the boss himself. Criticising the current regime has nothing to do with being a bad loser, its to do with the pretence and the spin. If we didn't keep banging on about our goals being to win the PL or CL I would be more accepting. Arsenal are like those kids at school who always talked a good game; they were going to do this or that but when it came to the crunch they were all mouth and went missing at the first sign of trouble. I don't care if we don't win anything this season but I want the side to show some true heart and soul especially in the big games.

  243. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 15:14 #54603

    Westie - thanks pal. Sounds good. Ooooh McCartney! The very name. Bloody old has been ought to retire. Still living off Let it be! Nothing but a 4 chord old cheat who envied his better, Mr Lennon(3 chords if he cd get away with it!!) I rate Chas and Dave higher. ha. See, you've set me off now mate. Hail Jimi Hendrix - a REAL guitarist!!

  244. Westlower

    Aug 01, 2014, 14:26 #54602

    @Ron, If ever you visit USA base yourself in Tucson for a real feel of the Old West. Take yourself for a bike ride on the Spanish Trail to get a flavour of real America. The cactus filled 'desert in bloom' after rain is a wonderful sight. Visit Old Tuscon where most of the old westerns were filmed. The outdoor market at San Xavier mission is on the Navajo reservation. Some great cowboy restaurants where you can order a 32oz steak. American prime rib is one of the best meats on the planet. Jeffs Pub is a must for beer & chips. Your 'idol' Paul McCartney has a range there. What a thrill to see roadrunners, rattlesnakes & humming birds.

  245. jeff wright

    Aug 01, 2014, 14:20 #54601

    Pete the troll,'whiff' and 'wafting' are the words that you desperately struggled to find for your:" They are often seen smoking from a huge calumet with the smell of Peyote resonating through the air." I'm always happy to help as with your misspelling of licking that you ludicrously attempted to portray as being the name of a childish nursery rhyme character !

  246. CT Gooner

    Aug 01, 2014, 13:59 #54600

    It was aimed at you Unchives, and Stevie and Jack. If my argue kente don't make sense to you, you can always ask clarifying questions. But as I always thought, you don't want a debate. In terms of kicking a ball, 3 times a week, how about you??

  247. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 13:39 #54599

    Come here maguiresbridge, I've got a big hug and a 'well done', especially for you. We've been close ever since the virtual BBQ at your drum, when you fell into the goldfish pond. Despite pulling you out and getting my new surplice mucky you tried to swipe me one as you'd lost a wellie, and you'd had the puncture repair outfit on them that morning. jeff wright being thrown out of the nearest window is par for the course I am afraid, he is cult status now, next he will belong to the nation. You know your stuff radfordkennedy, that is very interesting and something I was unaware of, thanks. Ron, you perhaps misunderstood-this damned posting-I agreed with much of your posts, occasionally a slightly different interpretation, or a more pronounced emphasis is usually where we part company, just small nuances, that and the fact you are a Toffee, ha ha. Hope it is a good trip young man, I'm sure you will come home with tales to tell.

  248. Pete

    Aug 01, 2014, 13:33 #54598

    Ron:I heard Jeff Wright and Peter Wain are very much into the traditions of the native American Indians. They are often seen smoking from a huge calumet with the smell of Peyote resonating through the air.

  249. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 01, 2014, 13:20 #54597

    BADARSE, quick addition? I'd hate to see a long one, i'd be quite happy to raise a glass with any body also, no matter what part of the divided kingdom they come from and indeed have done on many occasions and personally have no problems with any kind of posters or trolls whether for or anti OGL but they should be prepared to take it if their going to give it instead of telling those who don't agree with them, or think their right, they need to be thrown out the nearest window, but i suppose it's comments like that are the norm now from AKB's, it's what we've come to expect from pro wenger fans/trolls to other fans who dare say a bad word against their messiah, and i suppose the fact he's from your side of the fence you welcome him with a big hug and a well done.

  250. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 12:50 #54596

    Hi Westie - im envious now mate re you've experienced some native american Indian culture on the reservations etc. Theyve long been an interest of mine. Not going OTT on here but i consider myself pretty well read up on the their history/the indian wars etc. Amazing people and culture buddy. Sounds like you've had some good times in the good old USA. I must make the effort and go.

  251. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 12:38 #54595

    Badarse - all good stuff mate, agree or disagree. None of it matters as you said in one of your posts earlier. Im off to Everton away again in a few weeks for my sins. I must be masochistic mate. I keep saying 'never again' and then some nuisance has a spare to offer! PS Unless im dreaming it, that EC that i went to had the guy who Zidane had headbutted (cant recall his name was still) playing for Milan. It was the highlight of the day, jeering and cat calling him. Too much beer imbibed by me and few others, though he loved it!!Hope that you and your family enjoy it anyway pal. It was glorious weather when i did it. it makes it a better day.

  252. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 12:22 #54594

    OK, will give the lads a cheer for you and the family. Good luck to the youngster.

  253. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 12:09 #54593

    Nice stories 24601. Good and the bad, in a Jacuzzi we suffered for a short time as four clowns began to let their tongues run away with them. One was a Texan cop and was bad-mouthing 'wetbacks', the Mexicans who swam across the border. With a few chosen words of protest he began insulting the English, especially English teachers, who are on a small pedestal to me. We left in case the thing in his shorts, pointing at my wife was a pistol. In San Diego a few months before the '94 World Cup no one knew what it was, or those that did weren't interested in it being played there, just an excuse to shout, 'Yay America!'. We made a trip across the border into Tijuana and the first Mexicans we passed heard us talking and immediately informed us gleefully that the score a few hours before, in a land thousands of miles away was, Eengland 0 'Olland 2. Just loved their joy at connecting, all smiles and good nature. People eh? Can't live with them, can't live with them. Messi? If you believed our gutter press we are harbouring our own Mister Messy in young Jack. John Terry Thug's influence is tangible, hopefully after a good hosing down, a decontamination sweep and a few wise words by Arsenal Daddy, as one of my pal's little ones calls Arsene, he will be back on the job...whoops sounds like Olivier's forte. Read a nice transcript by Claude Puel who played under Arsene at Monaco. Fulsome in praise, and insistent that he hasn't changed his personality over the decades, held in utmost respect by all the playing staff. Whoosh! That sounded like a custard pie whistling by.

  254. Westlower

    Aug 01, 2014, 11:45 #54592

    @Badarse, Back in the 80's we had 3 separate holidays in Arizona, staying a total of 3 months in all. Visited a few Indian reservations, on one occasion bought an authentic Navajo beaded belt, only to discover on returning home it was made in China. Ever been ripped off by a Native American (Red Indian)? Waiting in the queue to check in at Circus, Circus Hotel, our impatient American host put a silver dollar in a slot and won $1,000. She said go book yourselves into a show on me, so we saw A Chorus Line at the Desert Inn for free. Also saw Tony Bennett, Joan Rivers & Gladys Knight. Great drive from Tuscon thru Phoenix, Flagstaff, Sedona, Grand Canyon, Hoover dam, Vegas, Lake Havasu (London Bridge) then back to Tuscon. On other days we visited Tombstone, Painted Desert, Nogales just over the Mexican border. I won $216 for a $2 stake on my first & only bet at Tucson dog track. A gang of about 12 of us went to a bar in the Mexican part of Tucson where they sold imported Guinness. We were advised to go en masse as the natives can be less than friendly. We heard a story where one German tourist was stabbed to death. Unfortunately we're unable to make the Emirates as Charlie is refereeing in the morning before coming to ours to watch the games. The report I read on Juan Quintero compared his game to Messi (where have we heard that before?), oh yes, it was Messi who said it.

  255. radfordkennedy

    Aug 01, 2014, 11:41 #54591

    Badarse...i have to admit I only know that passage by voltaire because it was chosen as the code message broadcast in two parts by the free french on the bbc,the second part which begins wounds my heart etc,told the resistance to create hell and we would be there in 24 hours....seven king gooner..agree with what you said about raddy although I think Dave Sexton deserves some credit for that,and as you know the arrival of the young boy from port vale and the departure of Gouldy helped forge a formidable forward line

  256. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 11:21 #54590

    Morning Ron. Yeah it's all you say and more. If in the right mode it can work, it's how I get through life, and a lot of the time it is just that-getting through it! We have the two front rows where we were last time. That's good because all of the 'littlies' we put in front, some are grabbed by their trouser legs as they nearly disappear over the side, and sit pushing and prodding each other whilst munching on their sweets. We lord it behind, taking in the footie. A great view from there, even for the youngsters. Want to see a new FA Cup icon on the surrounds reading 2014. Kids want to see the FA Cup, also hope to glimpse a few new boys, especially ALEX IS 17, though he looks a bit older. Caught up on a few days posts as I recently said. I didn't concur with all you said but enjoyed them nonetheless, buddy.

  257. Ron

    Aug 01, 2014, 11:05 #54589

    Morning Badarse - Good job you ll be in kid mode for the EC. The place will be choc full of women and squawking nippers, up and down out of seats every few moments. Soft drinks splashing everywhere. I went once. It was the one where Adriano turned up and wobbled about (im being kind) for Inter Milan carrying about 15 stone and was still the classiest player on the pitch by a mile! Must have been 7/8 years back now. Its a surreal 'match day experience'indeed. The games sadly barely reached even the usual level of frendlies. Hope its improved for you.

  258. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 11:04 #54588

    Describing the imagined drive to the Arsenal 24601, put me in mind of another trip, one you will relate to as I know you travelled the States. We had gone to Las Vegas and decided on a visit to the Grand Canyon. We found a cheap company managed by the Hualapai Indians, who had a reservation bordering a section of it. Being discounted and isolated appealed to us. That morning very early we went to meet the bus. Staying in the newly-opened Luxor, where you have to cross the gaming area to escape I did a double-take. Lying in a slot tray was a stack of gleaming half dollars. Must have been caught up and released after the winner had left the night before. It didn't cover the trip but went a way towards it. The coach was a battered and beaten up affair, with diesel fumes choking us, and making everyone yawn, (quiet jeff wright), on the journey there and back. A nice experience though. I always came away with more than I went to Vegas with, most non-gamblers do.

  259. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 10:45 #54587

    Interesting 24601, we may yet witness a revolving door at the Arsenal. The trip is in two 7-seater cars, me leading the wagon train, and meeting others in town. Yes a little like a St. Trinians outing-minus the hockey sticks! I visualise people sitting on jam sandwiches, kids in the back poking tongues out at people as we pass, me leading community singing in the car and perhaps being quietly told, 'Grandad, Ashton fell out of the window back at the roundabout.' The flag idea is amusing and may be done; jeff is acquiring international status. If I hear anyone complaining in the Hope that the yellow of their egg is hard I will not look around, just in case. The big sides will only ever have a poor return in developing raw talent from here on in. The house governs in every situation.

  260. Seven Kings Gooner

    Aug 01, 2014, 10:33 #54586

    Westflower - you make a good point about giving time to young players. I remember seeing John Radford in 1965, he was very raw but I believe Don Howe knew where to play John and he certainly blossomed under our Double winning coach's tuition. However you did n't need to give "Chippy" much time - the boy was class from day one!

  261. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 10:28 #54585

    Ah, radfordkennedy, you have found my soft underbelly. The man's most important campaigning was his view of separating the state from the catholic church. All governments are convoluted enough without the aspect of any one religion dominating it's governance-take a look around at the damage it is doing. Sadly he failed, with the exception of England/Wales and one or two other countries(?), though Whitehall would change that if they thought they could get away with it. In Kos I saw many of Putin's nouveau riche, all adorned with gleaming crucifixes. Overloading their plates, barging past other guests, and acting like ezzeks people. Wealthy Muscovites. Not a party member in sight. Uncle Gorky would turn in his grave but for the fact that Stalin probably put a stake through his heart when he had him murdered. On a lighter note, good old Arsenal.

  262. Westlower

    Aug 01, 2014, 10:20 #54584

    @Badarse, You must drape a banner over the edge on Sunday with the immortal words, 'You couldn't make it up Jeff.' Give us all a wave when the cameras pick you and your family out. Will your family coach trip be akin to a St Trinians outing? My Juan reference was about Juan Quintero who is reportedly in London today to talk terms with AFC. It's also reported that RM are anxious to offload Sami Khedira as he becomes a free agent next year. As usual let's wait and see if theirs enough pennys in the piggy bank to make none/one or both deals happen. Doubtless others will be leaving should a deal(s) be struck.

  263. Chris

    Aug 01, 2014, 10:06 #54583

    Pete - It wasn't our friend over at Arsenal Truth was it? I would so love it if I found out he had become a spud! That would be almost poetry...

  264. radfordkennedy

    Aug 01, 2014, 9:57 #54582

    Badarse...ahh Voltaire..the sob of autumns violin,wounds my heart with monotonus langour...

  265. Westlower

    Aug 01, 2014, 9:51 #54581

    @SKG, Sadly some of the great home developed players you listed simply wouldn't be given the time to establish themselves today. This is not a problem peculiar to AFC as none of the top 4 clubs have a good recent record in bringing through youngsters. Instant success is the name of the game now & many supporters simply cannot countenance failure. Teams like Southampton have a better success rate partly due to there being less crowd pressure on the youngsters to be an instant hit. Let's see how much time the critical Emirates crowd give Chambers, Sanogo, Gnabry, Zelalem, etc. TV/radio pundits should also be more sympathetic towards emerging talent instead of spouting smart arse remarks.

  266. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 9:48 #54580

    Ha ha, good morning jeff wright. You topped westlower's 'laughter maker'. It went off the scale and had to reread as my eyes were wet with tears of laughter and I couldn't see properly. Thank you. Though I think I am more Wittgenstein actually. Once I danced with the Dormouse on a table top, (with Rocky RIP in virtual reality, too). Now why am I thinking of random snoozing?

  267. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 9:37 #54579

    Morning AMG. No I wasn't suggesting that a negative poster is a Troll, hence the question mark. I was just suggesting that the odds would be in my favour if my view was deemed to be positive and a rogue poster posted support in a similar vein he would be unlikely to be a Troll. Though that of course is possible. Again I refer you to the question mark as a sign of uncertainty. I wouldn't criticise your views at all, they are perfectly valid. As I have said before by quoting Voltaire, 'I may not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it'. The only answer required now is to the question, 'Is the man who is prepared to gamble on improvement not the more positive?' My answer is, 'Not necessarily'. He may be using flawed info, and/or poor judgement and it may be deemed reckless.

  268. jeff wright

    Aug 01, 2014, 9:36 #54578

    All of this spuds paranoia on here this morning is getting rather tiresome. It's impossible unless you know the person personally in real life to gauge what anyone's football allegiances are. Of course Sigmund schadenfreude Badarse and his odd pal chicken licken Pete the troll are exceptions to this rule , they can unerringly spot a spud . I have always suspected that a couple of poster on here are closet blues, as at the bridge over troubled waters kind , only a suspicion this but I don't worry about it,as the actress said to the bishop,it takes all sorts. Anyway, unless you are a local North London supporter who comes into regular contact with the hilarious spuds regularly then I fail to see why they are anymore a problem than other supporters are. The mighty spuds , at least in their own minds ,and in those of their pals in the media, are in reality a non-event North of Watford - or come to that anywhere else outside of North London. In places such as Dublin for example there are more United ( Manchester )supporters ,a lot more, and these are the cretins who the Arsenal ones have to contend with - and not the spuds - who are only anyway chasing in real life just a 4th place in the Prem every season. Now it's this 4th place scenario that brings them into conflict with our supporters at times Although last season it was Everton who popped up like a Jack in a box to threaten our 4th place .Thankfully however after Arsene had embarrassingly failed to do it neanderthal Pulis put the upstarts firmly in their place . The truth is that unless the spuds threaten our Euro money place then they are just an irrelevance .Let's be realistic here the big hitters do not take their title threats seriously, and neither ,as Westie will confirm, do the bookies. They don't take our ones seriously either they know we are just a 4th place and not a first place contender. Wenger, and some of our players, do far too much yapping about what they are going to do , we had it again prior to xmas last season regarding the supposed title tilt,with Wenger, and others, promising us that the title WOULD be won. So it's no good people moaning at Wenger's critics ,the man brings the criticism onto himself. He and some of our players should just the **** up saying what they are going to do and get on with doing it . Then we will all be happy ! Well that is apart from the spuds ,chavs and sundry.

  269. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 9:20 #54577

    Ha ha, that was a winner by a length 24601. Another real out loud chuckle, (yawn), you really can't make it up. Oh shush, am becoming very silly and giggling now. Thanks for the welcome buddy. You and your arithmetic this chant of 'there's only one one, one one', would baffle people. Still as we know, 'one is one, and all alone, and ever more shall be'. We got the same seats as last time NE corner of the upper North Bank. Front two rows with fifteen of us going. The youngsters have their flags to drape over the side-my idea,...my flags, ha ha. I am such a child. Full Monty-vegetarian version-in the Hope café at noon, excited just talking about it. Always told my enthusiasm fills up the place, wherever I go, wondered if I would ever change. I probably will when I grow up.

  270. Seven Kings Gooner

    Aug 01, 2014, 9:18 #54576

    Very good piece - For me I fell out of love with Arsene when he went for "Operation Youth", young players were "burnt out" and severely battered by February. Some promising players played too much football and ultimately lost their way or were carried off on a stretcher. Inexperienced players combined with "tippy tappy" football coupled with a rapid decline in our defensive ability, ended our chances of winning any major trophies. Where are the quality home grown players we used to produce? Instead of raiding Southampton why can't we find and finish our own young talent. Our last world class player was Ashley Cole (I don't include Cesc because we pinched him from Barca)and Arsene very nearly shipped him out. Being bought up on Radford, Storey, Simpson, Armstrong, Brady, O Leary, Stapleton, Davis, Thomas, Rocky, Merson and many others, the current set up has managed Gibbs & Jack - both of which IMO have not quite made it yet.

  271. AMG

    Aug 01, 2014, 9:13 #54575

    BADARSE, a negative poster is not the definition of a troll. A troll is someone who writes not what they believe in, but what they judge will cause the most offense and draw the most reaction from those they're trying to wind up. They don't care about being coherent, they don't care one way or the other about the subject they're writing about, they just want to wind people up - 'Some men just want to watch the world burn' - If I agree with a Sour in that they don't think Mr Wenger is up to the job, it doesn't make me a Sour. In the same way that I might agree with a Muslim regarding human rights violations, doesn't make me a Muslim - Supporting Arsenal football club does not mean does not mean supporting that which you deem to be harmful to the club. Our performances could be worse under another manager, but they could also be a lot better - Do you stick or twist - Is the man who's willing to gamble on the chance of improvement not the more positive man than the one who sticks with same old same old?

  272. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 9:07 #54574

    Yes Pete, we all change and evolve. It's a mistake to think we all grow into a deeper understanding, some slide into a weird understanding of reality, buying into whatever happens to be the flavour of the month. Those who do an about turn are also everywhere, probably all of us, but with a perspective. Some like your example don't possess that perspective, or it gets warped. The other day at a party I grumbled about the Planet of the Apes franchise. Someone who knew me in another life was surprised at my criticism and remarked that when it first was screened I 'loved' the original. I said that was perhaps true of 'Star Wars' too, but people change. We adjust and view yesterday in a sensible form, some clearly don't, and seem to want to punish the imagined offender. It would be like me starting a campaign to ban these film franchises, which would be plain daft, though upon reflection...ha ha. Cue Bowie and Changes.

  273. Westlower

    Aug 01, 2014, 9:04 #54573

    @Jeff, A horse named MAKE IT UP won on his debut at Epsom yesterday at 6/1. You really couldn't make it up Jeff (yawn), apologies if I woke you up. @Pete, You hit the nail on the head why some people go over the top complaining. They simply can't come to terms with losing. Some instinctively lash out and want to hurt those around them. Sometimes you have to applaud the other team & acknowledge they performed better on the day. It used to be called good sportsmanship way back when, I guess it just wont do today? @Badarse, Welcome home & enjoy your trip to the Holloway Bowl on Sunday. Start practicing a new chant 'there's only one Juan, one Juan'

  274. Pete

    Aug 01, 2014, 8:29 #54572

    BADARSE You are so right concerning how many AMG fanatics love to buddy up with with what can plainly be seen to be spuds. I new a man once who became so entranced in the constant Arsenal bashing and criticism of the club from media and critics, which has always been the case for Arsenal as there will always been much jealousy towards them. That he became embroiled himself and went from being a dedicated season ticket holder who never spoke ill of the club to a complainer,then he became hostile to the manager, then he started exalting himself over the more dedicated fans, followed by not attending games, he even stopped watching them on TV. Finally the uttermost insult, he now follows the sours to get back at Arsenal and says being a spud brings no pressure. A warning to all you discontented grumblers. There's a thin line between the 'Home of football and the Pit of Hotspur.

  275. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 7:44 #54571

    Morning radfordkennedy. You are of course right, but I guess the lad knows this is a protracted last roll of the dice for him. He shall return a player, or a transfer statistic. If he can get his head strong it could really work for him. His skill is a genuine six out of ten Prem FB, if it edges onto a seven he has bridged that gap. I think his personality will give him a good run at it, it's whether the skill quotient lurks beneath. What of Coquelin? He is an enigma to me. Is he ready to go, stay, another loan? He could be kept as an emergency DM, you know how AFC does it on the cheap. If so it could make or break him. Then Abou has a final throw too. A Prem player's life is very unstable, and damnably difficult to wrest a decision if you are the manager. A judgement this way and you are the best thing since sliced bread, (what's the second best thing to sliced bread?), a gamble the other and you are a mug. I've said before on here I have made some good judgement calls like Jeffers failing the moment I saw him. Not so good with Frimpong though, as I thought despite his reckless tackling he may step up, and he never did. We enter an interesting period now the groundwork has been done with the necessary replacements. The likely comings and goings always intrigues me.

  276. radfordkennedy

    Aug 01, 2014, 7:30 #54570

    Strange feeling seeing jenks in a hammers shirt,the look on his face was that of a man trying not to be physically sick whilst smiling,he's arsenal to the core it must be hurting him despite what he says

  277. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 5:25 #54569

    Just a quick addition maguiresbridge. You spoke of 'trolling'. Well if a negative poster, (a Troll?), comes on here many your side of the fence welcome with open arms, why jeff wright in the last two to three weeks has identified with a Sour, without realising he was one, though other posters did, then to compound matters in order to prove my point he aligned himself with a bible-puncher who had a secret agenda, yet again an obvious open-secret to other posters. In fact I advised him of such and didn't ridicule in the process. If an individual comes onto the website and gees up and criticises 'negative' posters it is very unlikely that they are secret Sours. That comes with the territory you occupy I am afraid, it is always easier to tear down rather than build up, as a consequence the sniping if you like, must come from real fans as a general rule, and so what, even if not? Providing they are not particularly offensive or aggressively insulting I will agree or disagree as I see fit, as you have stated often, rarely is anything offensive posted. Someone mentioned a while ago that I have lost more friends on here in such a short time, more than anyone. Well to lose a friend you have to have found one first, how do you find a friend on a website? There are those I agree with, those I don't. Out of this comes a binding, but friends? Friendly yes, and some I think I would regard as a privilege to call a friend, that's all, many I disagree with perhaps would become good friends in real life, possibly yourself even. We generally disagree on fundamental aspects, but I feel very comfortable and happy to exchange, tease, joke and use banter with you. Away from this website we would just be Arsenal fans and gel or not. I would be happy to raise a glass (cuppa) with you, in fact I did in the previous post. Don't take things too seriously buddy, none of this matters, or as I often say, it isn't real...I may even be jj. Now there's a thought! Get back on me bike, jellied eels on me 'ead, whispering to four corners of the world, 'ang on, 'ang on, the world is round, another Gazidis plot! Don't cut Samson's hair, in the name of the Great Griff, put it in a pony tail. Sod it, chain's come off again.

  278. BADARSE

    Aug 01, 2014, 4:43 #54568

    Good morning to you maguiresbridge, I raise my first cuppa Rosie to you. Carl Jenkinson on loan for a season has to be an ideal situation, and there was me thinking others knew he was being sold. The lad either makes the step up after a season's experience and stays, or is transferred for a notable and reasonable fee. So difficult for young players to get enough pitch-time in order to develop and to break through within the big clubs. The 'shoulder to shoulder' thing? Hmm, well I enjoy playing around the website and make no secret of that. I apply my reactions and comments to those offered. A negative earns silence or a riposte of sorts, a positive earns an acknowledgement. None of this is real maguiresbride, even I fade away as I move from the keyboard-it's just good fun fella. Occasionally with either a nostalgic thread, or a serious point a different me emerges. It's the same hat which is worn with the peak back to front, or on sideways. When there are more relevant exchanges the peak is centred and pulled down over my eyes as I concentrate on a sensible answer, but as I said, the same hat-just my way, oh and it get's me through the night. I shall be at the Grove Sunday, bald-headed, bell-ringing, robed, and chanting at the head of a line a few, "'Arry Redknap's". At the final whistle I will spirit away once more.

  279. Th14afc

    Jul 31, 2014, 23:58 #54567

    Marco reus - so are you trying to tell me you think Barry is better than ozil??i bet u think Martinez is a better manager than wenger aswell?and you call me deluded....Martinez' Everton bottled it last season and nothin is said in the press yet if that had been arsenal you'd hav been bemoaning wenger's signings and stating that it shows a lack of strength and fightin spirit...Everton aren't a bad side but I stand by my comment that they have no chance of coming higher than arsenal....the title is right we are a divided kingdom alright

  280. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 31, 2014, 23:10 #54566

    Pete, BADARSE more often than not is happy to tell anyone even trolls like yourself he would be happy to stand shoulder to shoulder, he has done it so often i'm surprised he has room to move, but the fact he hasn't should tell you a lot, and if you hang around long enough after AKB central command reopens you'll realise he's teetotal.

  281. BADARSE

    Jul 31, 2014, 22:09 #54565

    Ahh, Kashky, I am not a number, I am not an acronym, and I am not an end of a bag, though I know Bilbo Baggins lives at Bag End, and his neighbours are constantly telling him to hobbit. The stuff of dreams, and the dream of stuffs.

  282. BADARSE

    Jul 31, 2014, 21:45 #54564

    Pete just tuned in and was about to plead with Jack the Gooner to take me to the top of the beanstalk with him. Then of course I remembered my deal with the Great Griff which is to perpetually torment the crazies on here, in return I get eternal central heating and Mars Bars-anyway he was never the same after that tumble down the hill...who's the 'Fool' now Jack? Anyway your assessment of me is pretty accurate except that I love my wife even more than Arsenal, and would be unfaithful to my team before being so to her, so that's a 'no-no'. It was a nice idea though, and it resurrected old memories, (memories or imaginings?). Must rewind the pacemaker now, drat! Thank you for the leeway you gave me though, I count your words as support compared to many of the other comments. Hubbard, Hubbard, Toil and Trouble, as if!

  283. Ron

    Jul 31, 2014, 21:23 #54563

    Reading your posts Pete, i think now, having seen your erudite powers of persuasion, the teak hard solidity of the evidence behind your inalienable points and the sheer force of your reason, it wont be too long before we re all unquestioning acolytes. How can we cope with the precision of your intellect? Its all very unfair that you're so blessed but I'm learning so much from you, its humbling. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. I'm guessing you're a barrister aren't you or perhaps a genetic scientist?

  284. Neanderthal Pete.

    Jul 31, 2014, 21:18 #54562

    Let's go clubbing.

  285. Bard

    Jul 31, 2014, 21:18 #54561

    Stevie you obviously missed the debates about the clubs finances, transfers and wage bills. you must have been away when discussing Arsenal past and present. All informative and interesting. Supporting Arsenal every home game is not an act of worship. I support with all my heart but I know when Im watching a team bottle it or when the manager looks like a rabbit in the headlights. Its called a critique. We all have our opinions and when we win the CL or PL you can stuff my words down my throat but sadly Stevie it aint going to happen while Wenger is in charge. If you think Im wrong put a detailed case for it on here and I will read it and respond. Im all for blind optimism but thats an act of faith its not a coherent argument.

  286. Matthew

    Jul 31, 2014, 20:58 #54560

    Before the trophy drought: We need to move to a bigger stadium in order to compete with other major clubs. During/after the trophy drought: Moving to the stadium meant that we weren't in a position to compete. Which is it Arsenal? I'm glad we won the FA Cup but I think the transition period was woefully mismanaged by Wenger.

  287. Pete

    Jul 31, 2014, 20:23 #54559

    Good to see old BADARSE back even though he's a bit weird he's a proper gooner and that's fine by me and he'd probably be quite a good night out probably a real ale man trap a couple of chicks and then home looking innocent faced for his wife.Amos and Fred another couple of sound Gooners, Ron, Maguire and jet seem a bunch of lily livered half goons while Geoff Wright needs to be hulked out the nearest window.

  288. Ozil

    Jul 31, 2014, 20:11 #54558

    I am trying to calm Alexis but he is homesick just like me. He was not happy when the boys wanted him to pose with a bra on his manhood. It's crazy here and everybody stops training to go for a smoke. I cannot hold the team by myself. my partner says:'Be cool baby - let's go shopping, no?' At least there is some sunshine but how long will that ask. Alexis would like to know that answer.

  289. DW Thomas

    Jul 31, 2014, 20:02 #54557

    A daily reader of Arseblog and this site, I enjoy both, but this one without doubt is the most enjoyable for debate. Arseblog at times slightly critical seems to tow the club line too deeply! Useless stats aside, we are a club that says we are doing all to compete, but that is an illusion. Profit is the top priority. Wenger is paid as much as any top level manager or way more, but where are his trophies? Again and again what many of us say and hope for is just to do everything we can to compete with the best, beat the best, at least more regularly, and win the best. We don't. Players stagnate or go backwards. We penny pinch when we have plenty of money. Arsene has become an emperor of the club. Yet his comments and decisions have caused many of us to lose faith in him at all anymore. Just as many have the right to support the man through all the bs that has spun out of this club for years, we have the right to call him out and challenge what we think is not acceptable or good for the club. We expect more than 4th place. That is not enough anymore, not nearly! The club have failed in our eyes to do the key things, mainly get the right players at the right times, to compete with the best teams in Europe! Now, are we the minority? Maybe, but we are damn well informed on many things concerning this club. It's history, finances, image to the world. And don't give me a lecture on football knowledge either. Many of us know the game well, have coached and played at a decent to high level. Emotions get the best of us sometimes, that's human nature. No one is an expert over any other in all things Arsenal or other. All of us want the best for the club. Just in different ways especially concerning the manager.

  290. jeff wright

    Jul 31, 2014, 19:56 #54556

    Jack, I was merely pointing out that you ,as you have gracefully conceded , were guilty of doing what you were berating others for doing. We all suffer at times from tunnel vision syndrome and get carried away into believing that our own points of view are right and why can't everyone else see this. I concede that my views appear extreme to some sensitive souls but no one forces them to read them. On the other-hand I have no choice but to put up with Arsene's copious views on just about anything that he chooses to shoot his mouth off about,often by doing a good impersonation of Comical Ali .Then there is the tick tock yawn inducing football that he is inflicting up on us as we saw in the cup semi and final and last Sat night in NYC, I doubt that that game will have had yanks queuing up to buy Stan's merchandise. I can of course ignore the football by not going to games or watching it on TV if I choose to do that and by posting comments on here . As a life long local supporter though I have decided to join the voices of reason that demand an improvement in our away performances for example and in other issues. Anyway, In the spirit of glasnost ( keeping the political point of view alive here ) I accept that it's a new season and time to put the soap box back in the garage. I would be lying though if I said I felt any empathy with Wenger now days,but I will await events and see how he gets on . I suspect though that I already know the answer to that having read the book before . Cheers.

  291. Pete

    Jul 31, 2014, 19:30 #54555

    We have a great chance this year and have improved our squad some bit this term. Chelsea have brought in a real turkey in Costa who has never scored internationally for Brazil or Spain. Liverpool have lost arguably the best natural finisher in world football, City haven't really improved while Manure and Spuds look like they're going to just hoof it as always.

  292. Jack The Gooner

    Jul 31, 2014, 19:27 #54554

    Oh Jeff, I have to offer you a heartfelt thankyou. You are as constant as the northern star. I don't post very often, perhaps I'm more of a voyeur but a cursory glance at the articles over any period of time and you can be found on your angry soap box with clockwork regularity. But every court needs is Jester and personally I find you adorable and I very much look forward to the next jeff wright installment, that poor keyboard must take a hammering. But you do raise a valid point, my own aired grievances could indeed have been written with a more tactful grace & I will endeavor to heed your suggestion in future posts. To anyone else who has taken offence, I do happily concede there are some interesting debates on here and for the record I am firmly in the middle ground, not for convenience, I certainly have a large wad of frustration with AW but I am prepared to see what this season brings, called me old fashion for wanting to reserve judgment in July! I just find it a shame that there are those with a more "negative" view of the manager and club at the moment choose to reach for the verbal unpleasantries to convey your point I just think its completely uncalled for. Thanks though Jeff for enthralling me with your political acumen ....Id clearly forgotten we live in a democracy....I may have you done the a disservice.

  293. Unchives

    Jul 31, 2014, 19:21 #54553

    @ CT Gooner, who or what are you angling at, who, what & why? Understand your own argument.

  294. CT Gooner

    Jul 31, 2014, 19:13 #54552

    Seriously, nothing constructive to say??? Some of us avoid degrading posts to profane insults in order to have constructive conversations. If you don't want to participate in frank debates, bugger off back to arseblog or Le Grove, and discuss issues with other like minded individuals. Here folks are going to question your opinions, so why not share them, and then think about the questions you're asked. Perhaps you'll see something a little differently, or then again maybe your original view will be further validated. Either way you learned something. Bottom line, I learned nothing new from you....

  295. Unchives

    Jul 31, 2014, 19:01 #54551

    @Stevie - totally agree, we have made very good signings, had a fab season, Arsene has signed the contract, lets get behind the team, I'm sure there are more signings to come.

  296. Stevie

    Jul 31, 2014, 18:55 #54550

    @Jack the gooner - Well said fella, for too long this comments section has been taken over by those who have nothing constructive to say. To the point from Bard, I dont what you are reading mate but there is very little encyclopedic arsenal knowledge on this board, instead you have a wide range of memories which are selectively recanted depending on how that individual wants to attack the manager. I dont think any one minds a debate, its at the heart of being a fan, but I think what Jacks is eluding too, is that the naysayers choose to use insults and anger as a way to convey there thoughts! For the record, Im not happy either with way the club has been managed, but IM more than happy to see that things seem to be changing and id rather wait to see what that looks like this season than shouting down the team, club and manager. I don't see the point personally?

  297. jeff wright,

    Jul 31, 2014, 18:49 #54549

    Jack your own post is full of the anger and bile that you accuse others of posting. Glasshouses and all that . Just saying that everything is fine and no one should moan is really not having any opinion at all and just a big yawn really.It was only the protests of some supporters about the lack of trophy success that led to Wenger having to take the FAC seriously last season. More moaning obviously still needed rather than your own let's just accept what we are served up.You never knoww we might even do better than 4th place in the Prem !I reckon a change of manager and different tactics might make that more likely,but that's just my view ,whenIlast checked this was still a democratic country and folk are allowed to have their own views on things rather than to just parrot the party-line.

  298. Unchives

    Jul 31, 2014, 18:44 #54548

    @Jack the Gooner - Whilst Im not totally happy with Arsene, I totally agree with your response. As I have seen on this site, same old names, same old arguments and I bet they haven't even kicked a ball in their lives. No doubt the boring cant play sport fart sitting at the back of the class.Well done!

  299. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 31, 2014, 18:38 #54547

    Bard, and a lot on that site could use thirty posts each or more to discuss that topic.

  300. Amos

    Jul 31, 2014, 18:29 #54546

    Observer. Yes I have been all through the exchange. :)

  301. Bard

    Jul 31, 2014, 18:25 #54545

    Jack the Gooner: I got the gist of the rant but I couldn't for the life of me find any of the analysis you are so craving.there is plenty of bile and rubbish on here, some of it funny some of it not but there are plenty of well thought out and knowledgeable posts as well. As for the charge that they are uniformed you havent read many.some of the posters on here have an encyclopedic knowledge of Arsenal matters going back 50 years or so.I think you ought to stick to Arseblog mate, I couldn't think of a more turgid and ' statement of the bleeding obvious' forum. I'd rather watch paint dry.

  302. observer

    Jul 31, 2014, 18:16 #54544

    Amos. LOL.

  303. Jack The Gooner

    Jul 31, 2014, 18:05 #54543

    Wow, what a bunch of miserable, uninformed f***** on here. Many of you (not all!) write with some sort of self anointed authority about the club and football but I find reading some of these comments to be highly amusing. The malaise of middle age has certainly hit some of you hard, you clearly believe that the years have given you wisdom and insight, yet many of your words reveal the fine veneer of bull****. The Gooner as a fanzine and this site have become the festering hole of the angry minority, there is some good debates here but so many on here fly to the venomous & nasty rhetoric which reveals a typical small minded and ignorant mindset. I say to those who revel in such diatribe, go join the Myles Palmers of this world...please be cheerleadrs for the ignorant & angry minority which is sadly so well represented on here. To you I say thank god for blogs like Arseblog, Le Grove & so many others that provide well reasoned and interesting thoughts on the club that don't resort to throwing vicious and distasteful insults at the manager and now I see that has extended to Ozil with worrying frequency on here. Many on here love to pull out the AMg & AKB tags that are a testament to pure idiocy, because every semi intelligent fan knows that you can split any fan base into 2 sections....how simple and convenient and how utterly ridiculous! FFS, The transfer window isnt even near shut yet, the season hasn't started but that doesn't seem to prevent so many of you castigating the manger, the club and any fan who doesn't agree with your myopic mindsets! We wont sign anyone now until mid to late august.......if that upsets you and gives you cause to hurl more abuse at AW then go for it, in the mean time the rest of us will enjoy laughing at your wasted angry keyboard strokes! BTW - Good article Peter, please ignore the usual suspects, they are happy to critiscise but offer very little in return other than bile

  304. Amos

    Jul 31, 2014, 18:01 #54542

    Observer. Sure - the Liverpool example was a reference to the basis of their acknowledged stronger performance last season and what contribution that the preceding transfer window might have made to that stronger performance. In other words it was a different example of a related but not the same point. The spurs point was a progression of spending over 3 seasons - what it was spent on isn't relevant. You seem to have confused context to the extent that you're suggesting that the single word 'done' in the first sentence is the context of the whole post whereas it really the other way round and the word 'done' is only given any context at all by what comes after it. I hope that helps clear up any confusion you may have.

  305. Marco Reus

    Jul 31, 2014, 17:07 #54541

    Ron - Agree Liverpool, City, United, Chelsea are clearly better than us. Shocking really going from league champions to midtable mediocrity. No CL win yet. I wonder how Wenger justifies to himself being manager after such failure. Any decent man would have resigned by now but this greedy corrupt man. He even got a payrise. Arsenal have been a decline for years yet those work are living in delusion. I suspect that delusion will break this year when we crash out of 4th place. Much needed.

  306. Bard

    Jul 31, 2014, 17:03 #54540

    Fred: what's with all this about changing sheets and bed wetting, is there something you need to share. We are a broad and tolerant bunch on this site, you're fears are safe with us. However you may have mistakenly stumbled onto a football site while looking for mumsnet. Good luck in your search for greater understanding and personal fulfilment.

  307. observer

    Jul 31, 2014, 16:49 #54539

    Amos. Despite your reservations I'm sure virtually everyone on here can follow a point, but I'm guessing they might get confused if the example you give is misleading. It was reading the sentences in sequence that helped me notice that you brought free transfer Kolo Toure into the equation as it suited your argument whilst omitting Adebayor/Friedel as it didn't. So maybe it was not, as you say, all related to spending.

  308. Goontown80

    Jul 31, 2014, 15:37 #54538

    Well written article! yes but deep down the writer knows Wenger is finished as an Elite manager, so you seem very conflicted. One thing that gets to me is the myth of if Wenger did not come to arsenal we would have been a club just participating in competitions every now and then like Everton and spurs. Arsenal always pushed above their weight long before arsene got here. It is part of victory through harmony. Every club with ambitions of becoming great club will get a manager with ideas in its Existence. Because our management at the time had a know how of recruitment and strategy. That is what happened to Arsenal back in 1996 except when we peaked 2004 our manager lost his mind (due to success of invincibles) and focused too much into his own ideas rather than what is good for the club so we stagnated since 2007. Point is most good managers have ideas that only work for certian time period. Great managers adapt. What makes me not convinced by Arsene as has nothing to do with monies. It has to with ability to adapt and evolve. Poor recruitment strategy,outdated sport science strategy, loyalty towards players rather than club as whole, tactics, poor squad rotation strategy.Once a Manager duty is make fans proud and happy so they get the feeling that this year we may not have won anything but the club has done everything in their resources to compete, we addressed obvious squad gabs with real targets. We looked all of the issues of last season and we have addressed those. As a Arsenal fan I never got that feeling since we have moved to the new stadium that is just unacceptable and no good I think that is where most frustrations come from.

  309. Fred

    Jul 31, 2014, 15:17 #54537

    ...ooops....gonna need to change the sheets over on the dark side...they have been wetting their beds again.... spurs.. everton... liverpool... and those below them ....even west ham are getting a new stadium ... are all gonna finish above us... we are finished .... it is all over ...omg ... omg ... the sky is falling .... the sky really is falling !!! ... rofl...

  310. jjetplane

    Jul 31, 2014, 14:37 #54536

    Could not be any plainer than RON's post as to where Wenger's 'battles' will be next season. The big money in Arsene's safe in the last year has been spent on Exhibition players. Lovely to watch but not the sort to really be expected to defend from the front. The defence still looks like a carboard city so has much as Wenger wants 30 passes and a walk into the net each game to prove exactly what? the traffic coming the other way when it really matters usually involves highly athletic assassins trained to do one thing. Destroy Us. The insane thought that Smoking Jack will do a Viera is probably based on both players abilities to pick up red cards. I imagine a couple for JW could be brought about in the most humiliating fashion, with Arteta waving his arms in that hard done-by fashion. It all feels just too familiar only this time it will be much harder. The pressures on the Mancs and Liverpool will see to that. Everton will improve on last year as will .... right! just off down there. Who really lives on the Darkside. The kingdom of the blind.

  311. Ron

    Jul 31, 2014, 13:59 #54535

    Bard - Sadly, the thinking of the Club and Wenger has seemed to me for years to be that its Chelsea and Man C who are the irrelevant teams. Everton Liverpool (particularly) and Spurs and those below them are the very relevant ones now. Results v the top 2 and in guessing still v Utd, are just bonus points as and when they happen to occur now and again. We have all of the trappings of a top Club but not the behaviour of one. Still fans are duped by the Club though. Top 4 is good enough in Arsenals hierarchy yet, Liverpool's emergence has put a spanner in the works. It seems reasonable to suggest too that come the start of season 2016/2017 when Anfield is renewed up to 60000 capacity, that Arsenal unless they change tack will have a very serious problem on their hands. As a Club Liverpool always think bigger than Arsenal anyway and given the infrastructure they will be reaching, expecting/demanding of themselves even for parity with City and Chelsea. By then we can expect United to be a force of old again as well. Its now, while we are ahead of Liverpool that the ambition is needed at Arsenal lest they risk being squeezed out for a long while.

  312. CT Gooner

    Jul 31, 2014, 13:44 #54534

    You're right Bard, no matter where the poles point today, folks are far less entrenched in their love for him as they were and could turn on him with a poor start. I wonder if reason we haven't signed anyone else of importance is that we haven't qualified for the champions League group stage yet. The other question I have is how long can England expect that 4th CL spot, given recent European and international failures??

  313. Fred

    Jul 31, 2014, 13:12 #54533

    evolution of typical dark side of the moon debate....amg claims everton have a better manager and better squad than arsenal....others show how silly he is...amg gets more absurd with each pots...others show the absurdity....another amg then claims that having this debate at all shows what a mediocre club we are....others fall about laughing....

  314. Bard

    Jul 31, 2014, 12:51 #54532

    The Everton debate is symptomatic of where we are as a club, mediocre. We should be thinking about how to beat Chelsea and Citeh not Everton, they are an Irrelevance.If we can't despatch them we really are in trouble. The divided support debate needs framing. If we slip off the pace and get a thrashing from one of our rivals. I don't think the Emirates will be a bountiful and joyful place regardless of how supportive fans are now.

  315. Dark Moonie

    Jul 31, 2014, 12:50 #54531

    BADARSE how does it feel to be so ignored, even by your own kind? The ghost of Hubbard speaks well of you. He thinks you are like Homer, only your poetry is best left in 'the cave'.

  316. Tony Evans

    Jul 31, 2014, 12:34 #54530

    Pete - As a person who has wanted Wenger out for many a year now I can probably speak for most, if not all 'AMGs' as you call them. I am no glory hunter and never have been, just someone who would like to see the very obvious flaws in the team sorted out once and for all. I can't be bothered to detail those flaws as they are screamingly obvious surely?

  317. Pete

    Jul 31, 2014, 12:21 #54528

    So you can't answer the question Jeff! With the new season rapidly approaching it's time to get behind the team.We all know the much derided AKB'S will, it's whether the 'Glory Glory Hunting AMG's' are up to the task or whether they're only interested in slagging the team off.

  318. jeff wright

    Jul 31, 2014, 12:10 #54527

    Chicken licken Pete the troll it was Wenger who said 4th place (yawn) was a trophy not me. I just think that 4th place is,well,4th place. I want Wenger to leave NOW!

  319. Amos

    Jul 31, 2014, 11:52 #54526

    Observer. The relationship between spending in each transfer window and league position is clear enough to see that, in this example, what was 'done' in the transfer window related to spending - you just have to read the sentences in sequence to get the context. The first sentence has little meaning at all without the example. But even if it isn't clear to all the point isn't altered in any way, there is no significant difference made no matter how many loans and freebies they'd taken on. Whether you trust me or whether I have complete trust in some others to follow a point doesn't matter in the slightest.

  320. BADARSE

    Jul 31, 2014, 11:15 #54525

    This polling business is best left to the Poles, 'Hey, Alek!' Simon Rose, a very accomplished writer submits many articles in slightly different vogues. All interesting and well received, yet ironically bemoaned by the Dark Moonies. Odd that he receives a huge proportion of the vote to finish a well deserved first in those dreaded polls, yet the Dark Moonies fail to influence those very polls. Perhaps there are fewer than would seem by the posts, still empty vessels and all that. Dziekuje i dobranoc.

  321. observer

    Jul 31, 2014, 11:05 #54524

    Amos. When was the point made? In this thread or a few threads ago? Because in this thread you are referring to what we 'do' in one transfer window rather than just money spent on transfer fees, a significant difference which I felt needed significant context. You're really not to be trusted, are you?

  322. Pete

    Jul 31, 2014, 10:06 #54523

    So what you're saying Jeff Wright is that you consider 4th place as a trophy, which is exactly what you are condemning Wenger for. As you say if he doesn't get top four then he should leave.

  323. Amos

    Jul 31, 2014, 10:02 #54522

    Observer. The point made was on the relationship between the spend that Spurs had to make in the preceding transfer window in order to achieve the finishing position they did in the season that followed. The fact that they loaned and/or signed players on a free doesn't alter the point. @AMG. Most of the polls I have referred to are those carried out annually here at the Online Groaner (as someone sarcastically describes it)but there are others at BSM and even AST that have produced similar figures. Not everyone is content (or discontented for that matter) to the same degree. There're plenty of points in between unquestioning support and unrelenting opposition but a clear and significant majority want him to stay (indeed the fact is he is staying)and according to the polls here only 1 in 5 want him out. Given such information which is freely and widely available and allied to the firm support he has from the owners and the board, plus the fact that the stadium almost invariably sells out for pretty well every game the idea that there is a clear division in support, or any great conflict over the issue seems totally misleading. There's no reason why anyone should ever stop making a reasoned case for a change of manager but it should be clear that they are doing so from the sidelines of popular opinion and not presented as a major conflict. It simply isn't one.

  324. AMG

    Jul 31, 2014, 9:40 #54521

    Amos, AKA Ivan Gazidis, where do you get your figures re support of Wenger from? They seem very unlikely to me, did you check any of the polls after the 6-0 defeat to Chelski or the 3-0 to Everton? Stop making up numbers to support your blind faith in the doddery old fool - As a football manager he is second rate, that is all. I don't care what he's like as a manager of finances, that's not his job!

  325. observer

    Jul 31, 2014, 9:25 #54520

    Amos. The season Spurs finished 4th they didn't just recruit Parker for £8m, they also brought in Adebayor on loan who became their top scorer that season, and Brad Friedel on a free who was an ever present that season. In other words, the players they recruited in the transfer window played a major part in their achievement of finishing fourth. Please stop being economical with the truth in order to mislead people. Your eloquence may seduce some on here, but not all.

  326. Westlower

    Jul 31, 2014, 9:05 #54519

    @Marco Reus, Just to put some perspective on your prediction that Everton will finish above AFC. An independent view by the bookies trading staff reckon AFC will finish 14 points clear of Everton. That doesn't mean their judgement is any better or worse than your good self, it's just their professional opinion. The spread betting of number of points gained is centered around Everton finishing on 62 points & AFC 76. You can bet at odds of 5/6 whether you believe that either clubs points total will be below or above 62.5 (Everton) or 76.5 (AFC). If you truly believe Everton will fare better than AFC, logic dictates that you must expect Everton to get at least 63 points & AFC struggle to achieve 76 points. There is potential for you to land two winning bets at odds of 5/6 each, equivalent to 83.3% interest on your stake. For information only - the odds on a top 4 finish are Everton 7/1, AFC 1/2; top 6 finish, Everton 13/8, AFC 1/12; to be Champions Everton 150/1, AFC 13/2.

  327. BADARSE

    Jul 31, 2014, 8:58 #54518

    Yassou my little stifados. Home from the Isle of Hippocrates, and many oaths being sworn on the Gooner. Took a while to catch up as I never take phone or gizmos on my trips, and of course never read the press' lying mutterings. Got an update from a buddy at Gatwick whilst awaiting the courtesy bus. 0-1 was half-expected and mildly disappointing, but very pleased with the transfer situation to date. Spread the 'Sours' tag across the Aegean and it has my brand on it; we know about branding at AFC, don't we? Well, Amos smiling as he cut and thrust, westlower corralling those around accompanied by much bleating, Ron parrying and thrusting with elegance and just the occasional knee in the goolies to disappoint. jj, wisps of smoke around every post, serving only to affect our resident somnambulist jeff wright, Charlie threatening a war dance at the E Cup, and maguiresbridge drinking in the garden and sometimes breaking a gnome because of it's conspiratorial look. Ah, to be home. Family bus booked for the E Cup Sunday, and this old greybeard will guide it unerringly towards the Grove, (for the aesthetes amongst I am very clean-shaven, it's a pre-requisite of all matinee screen idols and lotharios). Loved the 'Dark Moonies' tag 24601, they will wear it with pride no doubt. Mmm, stifados and lotharios in the same post, seems my pre-season training is going quite well. Oh, and never being one to disappoint, I love you all. Good old Arsenal.

  328. trevor

    Jul 31, 2014, 8:07 #54517

    they were lucky to get away with a point at our place in the league but nothing lucky about our penalty...we even took it twice to give them some hope....they did us over at their place when we had a rusty vermaelen back in the side...but they ended up seven points behind us because they were rubbish when the pressure was on....they will mid table at best this season...only a deluded person would think they were better than us....

  329. Marco Reus

    Jul 31, 2014, 8:00 #54516

    trevor - We got lucky with a late soft penalty and got a few more when they had to go all out attacking. Hardly turing over. Though the league games they absolutely dominated us at home and were lucky to get away with a point and they absolutely destroyed us at Goodison. Only a deluded person would think we are better than them. What does OAP stand for?

  330. Bard

    Jul 31, 2014, 7:55 #54515

    A well written piece but you answer your own question. If he is unlikely to ever win the PL then he has to go. Secondly the Untd scenario is not the only likely outcome of change, it could be a force for good. At present we are mired in mediocrity and that has to change. I am still hopeful with a month left in the window, but as Ron and others have stated its asking a lot of an OAP to radically change his ideas and coaching methods. The most we can expect is a tweak here and there and frankly that won't be enough to repel the brighter managers in the bigger games. Amos may be right the divisions may be overstated but it didn't feel like that at the home game against Villa last season.

  331. Marco Reus

    Jul 31, 2014, 7:37 #54514

    Ron - I wasn't talking about Everton getting 4th place but finishing above us. We were lucky to finish above them last year. With a settled manager and squad I suspect we won't be lucky again. As for top 4 it will be Liverpool, Chelsea and the Manchester clubs fighting for the title. I do agree we need a top manager.Think we will finish midtable this year our squad is an average lot and with a poor manager like Wenger. Ozil to prove himself to be a top player and not the biggest flop in Arsenal's history but I suspect he won't as I feel he won't be upto it and I think he is quite overrated. Tbf to him he is a geniune world cup winner as he played all of Germany matches and did score a crical goal against Algeria unlike the posers Podolski and Mertseacker. But he was the worst player in the Germany's starting eleven and mostly hid out on the wing. Wenger maybe to blame here as he regresses his players with his poor coaching. I do fear for Sanchez Wenger's history with big money signings is poor.

  332. trevor

    Jul 31, 2014, 7:27 #54513

    hahah everton my arse....barry and lukaku played when we turned everton over 4-1 at our place...and martinez ended up further behind us than we were behind chavs or real scousers ....we were as close to the winners as they were to us....

  333. Marco Reus

    Jul 31, 2014, 7:13 #54512

    Err - Agree mate this mug can't sign a decent midfielder and blurts on about crap like Wilshere and Diaby. That record shows what he is a specalist in failure. He is pretty much a charlatan proved it when he sold RVP to United and Giroud who is the second worst striker I have seen at Arsenal behind Sanago. Lets not forget this idiot spent 42m on Ozil who has been a flop. He will leave us in midtable mediocrity. I wish we had never appointed this fraud. Rioch was doing fine.

  334. Ron

    Jul 31, 2014, 7:08 #54511

    Marco Reus - I think that the signings that Everton have made are good for them, though they're not going to get Everton top 4 in my view. Theyre not the type of players to ratchet Everton's bar up much higher. Barry is getting on now. Still a good player admitted but hes at his level. Cant speak of Besic as i know little of him. Lukaku? Hes a real tryer but mate, Chelsea will be laughing at having got that price for him. Great bit of business for them. The goal return that will flow from him doesn't justify 28 Mill as i see it. Everton have Europa Cup to play too. That will put the brakes on any top 4 ambitions i suspect.Martinez is a very good Coach too and part of me would suggest that hes Wengers replacement however, i suspect that a Moyes experience might happen at Arsenal if he did. To progress Arsenal beyond Wengers legacy needs a Coach of proven top calibre with extensive CL experience i feel. AMOS - I hear your views on the so called 'divide'mate, but believe me, there is a large, albeit silent number of our fans who are no longer enamored with Wengers stewardship. Youre right though, most just stroll along following the Club and at worst mutter and chunter about his shortcomings. It says more about our fans really. We've never been the type to be too demonstrative when things go awry and the top 4 consistency keeps most hanging in there with false hopes of progression beyond that. AW is at the right Club really in that regard. Even Billy Wright lasted 4 years in the dark mid 60s! For whats its worth i dont see Wenger seeing out 3 more years. he will walk if we do slip from the top 4 but more likely hes signed on to see the Club through to a natural transition to a new Coach, perhaps even by next Seasons start. Hes going nowhere even when he does finish as Coach and ive no problems with that. Many do though i accept.

  335. Marco Reus

    Jul 31, 2014, 4:33 #54510

    TH14afc - Everton have a good squad and far better manager settled in compared to our average lot and a poor manager. They will certainly finish above us. If you think they have no chance you are deluded. As for Barry he ran the midfield against us and bullied the 42m flop Ozil. And lets not forget the trashing they gave us.

  336. Yawn, same old same old

    Jul 31, 2014, 4:13 #54509

    Geoff, are you suggesting Arsenal need a sugar daddy to compete against the dirty-money clowns who buy their titles?

  337. Th14afc

    Jul 31, 2014, 0:42 #54508

    I still feel great appreciation for the job Wenger has done at Arsenal and also for the job he still does...not to keep going over old ground but when financial constraints were clearly a massive factor over the last 9 years we still managed to stay in the champions league consecutively...the worst thing he did in that time was puttin kids out in the carling cup final against Chelsea,still to this day it baffles me and we might not hav had to wait 9 years for a trophy...I do think with wenger gone it could get worse,a lot of our fans might realise the grass isn't greener on the other side.... As for the summer signings- very happy so far,Sanchez is quality,debuchy is a great replacement for sagna,the stats show both are quite similar,ospina will provide good competition for woj & at 25 is still young...chambers has potential but I really hope we don't see him as vermalen's replacement in the centre as the lad is still very much learning..if our captain goes we need to sign an established centre half...evidently we need a warrior in dm...finally I would love to see Jackson Martinez become a gunner but I'm prob dreaming that one

  338. Amos

    Jul 30, 2014, 23:48 #54507

    @Errr, LOL

  339. Errr,

    Jul 30, 2014, 23:39 #54506

    Amos please shove ur polls and meaningless "stats". You can bleat on about poll results all you want but I am not happy with the club at all. I don't care if 10,000 morons disagree. Because the majority is easily pleased and clueless, doesn't mean I'll follow suit. Nothing has "changed" this summer. Wenger has signed Sanchez, quality. Him aside? He's signed a mediocre French (yawn) defender that starred for a shocking Newcastle team that flirted with relegation. He's signed an OAP keeper that a dross French team didn't care to lose for just 3 million Euros. Way else...ah yes, the obligatory boy wonder from Southampton. He can't develop his own youth (the academy is a joke), so best to steal Southampton's! So basically he's signed Sanchez. He's done nothing to address the numerous thrashings by the big boys when they ran straight through a soft centre: where is the DCM? Where is a Lars Bender or Kehdira? People can wax about the defence, but in the big matches, Kos-Mert is mediocre. Hence 6 conceded at the Bridge, 5 at Anfield, just the 6 at Citeh, and for good measure, 3 at Everton. A centre half next to Kos needed but do u think Wenger has a clue. LOL. On a tactical level, his record v Jose is comical, even Pulis has a superior one! And as for the CL hahahaha. Pigs will fly before Wenger wins it. 1 FA Cup in 10 years you say? No finish inside the top 2 in ten years? Do me a favour love... I am not endorsing Wenger, he's too unambitious, too small minded. He's not made for a massive club where the expectation is to win trophies, and be ruthless. If he was, Cesc wouldn't be paying for Chelski no way.

  340. Amos

    Jul 30, 2014, 23:15 #54505

    Not winding me up jjetplane. The wittering about conflicts and divisions between gooners over Wenger as though it were significant as overdone and maybe slightly irritating - but only on the level of a mild case of athlete's foot perhaps. No respect at all for Spurs - the stat I gave itself is quite amusing - as is your conclusion that it could possibly be seen as respectful. It looks more scornful to me. Things are indeed going great for the club - they have been for some time - and most gooners seem pretty cheerful folk - though some are happiest when they're miserable.

  341. Th14afc

    Jul 30, 2014, 22:58 #54504

    Marco reus- you really just said that Everton signin the likes of Barry mean they will finish above us??am I tripping or something...no chance of that!

  342. Dick Tater

    Jul 30, 2014, 21:52 #54503

    Totally agree Peter we will never win the prem or the CL while Wenger is in charge.A once great manager he has been left behind.10 years behind.Just check our results in the Prem v the big clubs and in the knockout stage of the CL the first half decent team we play every year and we are out.He's tactically clueless.4th but no higher

  343. Whiner

    Jul 30, 2014, 20:22 #54501

    Amos you do go on a bit, sounds like you're trying to convince yourself as much as anyone else.

  344. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 30, 2014, 19:30 #54500

    It's a Kingdom divided alright Peter but who divided that kingdom, from the Highbury highs to the Emirates lows. We were promised more highs or maybe more accurately led to believe, fair enough there had to be a period of transition but nine years and counting? Who divided the Kingdom? it wasn't the fans, Were/are the supporters supposed to just sit on their hands and sigh, ah well,(LIKE SOME STILL DO)for those nine years of mediocrity, the pet projects, and everything that with them, the rubbish that pulled on the shirt, the humiliations, and all the rest etc,etc,etc, and wait and see what happens and give even more time and still sigh, ah well(like some still do)to/for a manager who thinks he owns the club and acts like it. Yes of course he is a legend and will be remembered for all he's done that goes with out saying, (for the first half of his tenure anyway) and he has been dining out on that for far far too long, and it's going to take more than one FAC that he cared little about until it became his get out of jail free card (otherwise he'd be a memory now)to make any impact on his second tenure or change history there. I don't sense a different approach at all just more of the same (maybe those who are always thinking it will be different this season do) just doing enough never going that one step further that it takes to take us to where we want to be, never completing the jigsaw. And that's down to one man, wenger nobody else. I agree we'll never win another title let alone a Champions League with wenger in charge because he doesn't know how too any more, he just hasn't it in him. And the saddest thing is fans still think he does and he has. Good article.

  345. jjetplane

    Jul 30, 2014, 19:21 #54499

    Well it is certainly winding you up and you appear to be just losing your cool a bit. With your ready to quote encyclopedia on all things Sour, can we surmise you have a begrudging respect? You don't have to answer now as I know it will make long, unnecessary reading for us impotent whiners and we are too busy 'chicken licken' and I do hate all that grease all over the lap top. Cheer up AMOS It's going just the way you like it - isn't it?

  346. Amos

    Jul 30, 2014, 18:35 #54498

    I agree it can be entertaining to consider who we might want to see in the team CT Gooner, it's pretty much everday football chat, but there's no direct relationship between what we do in just one transfer window and what we might achieve in the following season. I've pointed out before that 3 seasons ago Spurs spent just £8m on Parker and finished 4th, £60m+ the season after and finished 5th and £100m+ last summer and finished 6th. Similarly Liverpool were much stronger last season but how much of that was down to what they did in last summers transfer window? Alberto, Aspas and Illori didn't play any real part. Though he was a freebie Toure looked more of a liability on occasions and Sakho played less than half a season! Still I can see the fun in speculating on who might do what in our team even though our opinions are bound to be under-informed or ill-informed even. I just can't see what point there is in continuously imagining that there is some real conflict surrounding Wenger when most supporters and most definitely the owner and board are committed to him staying on - almost as long as he wants. This idea that there seems to be some sort of battle going on between supporters is a nonsense. If there ever was a battle then it was lost sometime ago but I suspect, as now, it was just a bit of noise really. I'd be more than happy to join in any debate about who our next manager should be when there's a realistic chance of needing one. Until then it's less of a debate and more just people shouting through others letterboxes.

  347. Marco Reus

    Jul 30, 2014, 18:24 #54497

    Everton have signed Barry Lukaku and Besic. Another team that will finish above us. Good manager that Martinez. Tottenham have good players and with a good manager we shall see. Soon it will be 5th place is a trophy and how great the Europa league is OGL will be spouting. Gazidis has shown himself to be conflict in this farce by giving OGL a new contract. When will we be rid of these two? They have destroyed Arsenal.

  348. CT Gooner

    Jul 30, 2014, 18:15 #54496

    I agree Amos, but given we don't know the targets or if we are even going after anyone else, what should we be discussing right now? My feeling is with our current squad the best we can do is third, and the worst is 6th. So perhaps the discussion should be if no one else of importance is signed, can anyone see us getting the 4th place "trophy". Alternatively we could discuss are any of our current under 18s good enough to see a spell in the first team?

  349. jjetplane

    Jul 30, 2014, 18:09 #54495

    Staying fourth for as long as he has is no miracle. It simply means he just about edges over the next to or three teams in line. As he as got older he has softened into a dreamstate which clearly looked the case when watching him in NYC. Being on 8m must make anyone smile smugly 24/7. Think with the Dutchman at OT it will be between Liverpool and them for third and theoretically puts Arsenal in at 5th. That would be about the best they could do as I think Everton and Sours could be different bets come the season. Which leaves me either ****ing off down the lane 'licken chicken' or feeling 'sorry for myself' up 't north. Think I will stick around here and watch how Billy Wenger's Circus performs but still think we need a Puma Trainer ......

  350. Amos

    Jul 30, 2014, 17:54 #54494

    Do we need another 'Wenger dilemma' article as though there were any real conflict going on now? Most polls show those, with varying degrees of contentment, in favour of him continuing as manager outnumbering those who want him to go by some 3 or 4 to 1 - and by and large those polls even through the barren spell have been pretty constant. The board and owners had settled the question in their minds, indeed they never had any real doubts about what they wanted and they're the ones than need to be certain. Once Wenger had signed up this summer then it's a dead issue. At least for another 3 years when it's not completely unlikely he'll decide to stay on until he's 70! The idea that there's any sort of battle being waged or that the discontents are able to do anything more than whine impotently from the sidelines is a bogus one. Surely there must be a whole lot more about Arsenal worth discussing than having to bang this tired old drum?

  351. Marco Reus

    Jul 30, 2014, 16:46 #54491

    Wenger is an incompotent manager a specalist in failure. He needs to be sacked. I have no doubt with a top manager we would be winning the league. Wenger out. Guardiola in.

  352. Ron

    Jul 30, 2014, 15:56 #54489

    Hi Westie - everybody over 30-35 knows that mate and there's no reason to an extent why they still cant. To do it wholesale in the modern game though means lower mid table or relegation.You also ignore that fact that there simply aren't young players here to develop now. Grass roots football isn't healthy. All them that you mention emerged from a time when all we did was played morning till night on tracks and in the streets. Doesn't occur now, hence no footie players emerge.

  353. Tony Evans

    Jul 30, 2014, 15:51 #54488

    A well balanced piece, Peter, summing up nicely why we as fans have been, and still are, so divided over Wenger's continued tenure at the club. Post 2005 he has indeed performed a minor miracle keeping us top four with such a relatively small outlay of funds. The frustration for me since then has been, and still is, the brittle nature of the squad he has put together, and the thought of what might have been if he had just bent his obsession with style over substance even a little bit. That and the ludicrous contracts handed out to, and the misplaced faith in, the likes of Bendnter and Denilson. I admire the fact that he wants his teams to entertain, but let's face it first and foremost for us fans is Arsenal winning - hopefully playing good football too, but also by 'playing ugly' when required. The fact that Wenger refuses to 'play ugly' and hardly has anyone on the books that can anyway is, and will remain, my chief gripe with him, and is the reason why I think the time has come for him to leave. I was almost fooled into thinking he had changed when I fell for the Khedira story (more fool me) but I don't think he will ever change and this is the reason I would like to see a new man at the helm.

  354. jeff wright

    Jul 30, 2014, 15:50 #54487

    Wenger is going where he has never gone before this season into a first ever 5 sides competing for 4 places in the Prem .City and Chelsea look the most likely , with their squads, and managers, to provide the main tilt for the title,with Wenger taking on Rodgers and Gaal for the other two lesser places. The bookies odds reflect this scenario. Wenger has been nailed on in the past for at least 4th spot, with only the likes of spuds and Everton threatening his position, he was always favorite to win those battles. All of this he has worked wonders to always finish in the top 4 is a bit OTT really, that is , given the advantages that he enjoyed ,just what he should have done. However,fings aint wot they used to be now , with Liverpool having reappeared like some sleeping giant awoken by someone on magic beans to join in the top 4 party. The collapse under Moyes of United,albeit our results against them were still deja vu Fergie time ones, helped Wenger out last term and the FAC win got him out of jail, after he blew our title chance. 4th place only would not have saved Wenger last season,he was under real pressure to win something after 9 trophless years. United are unlikely to be so poor again though and will be looking for at least a top 4 finish their cause aided in this by not having any Ropey Cup games to play on a Thursday night. City under a new manager also like United struggled early doors away last season but will know more about things this time around . Chelsea were in and out of form all season much to Maureen's chagrin , however worringly they still managed to spank Arsene 6-0 on Arsene's big day at the bridge . I don't believe that managers can easily overcome the sort of trouncings that Wenger gets away these days and it must be impacting on his psyche. So with the ex-special one having sorted out his squad for this new season we can safely assume that old Arsene,with his outdated tick-tock football, will not be the manager that Maureen fears most . I doubt that Arsene is top of Pellegrini's fear list either ,regarding the title. One big plus for Arsene in his 4th place battle is that Liverpool have to play in the European Cup this season ,so they won't have things so easy as last time,and they have also lost Suarez. At least Wenger won't have to win anything this season,4th place will be a trophy again ,but anything less and it will surely be a case of au revoir for him.

  355. Westlower

    Jul 30, 2014, 15:34 #54486

    Spending big has never been the Arsenal way. We've always prioritised developing young players; These players cost a pittance when signed: Wilson, Rice, Kelly, Storey, Simpson, Radford, Kennedy, George, Sammels, Brady, Rix, O'Leary, Stapleton, Davis, Adams, Rocastle, Thomas, Merson, K.Campbell, Keown, Parlour, Cole, Anelka, Fabregas, Gibbs, Wilshire.

  356. smithy

    Jul 30, 2014, 15:13 #54485

    I think the fault lies 70 percent with the board and 30 per cent with Arsene.There is no doubt the board hamstrung the manager for many seasons paying off the stadium.Trouble is Arsene is stubborn and is reluctant to spend money- he always wants to do things in the most difficult way possible.He does not want to 'kill' players but seems myopic to the players needed for success lately- he has never replaced petit,viera,Edu or gilberto- we are too soft in the middle.I hope he spends big on a forward and a ball winning ct midfielder.Stan needs to spend big.

  357. CT Gooner

    Jul 30, 2014, 14:45 #54484

    You seem very conflicted Peter, I feel for you chief! For me, the Wenger ship has sailed. I have little respect for him anymore, though I do appreciate the service he has given the club. Don't feel sorry for him though, he's been handsomely rewarded. Fergie stayed fresh by continuously changing things up in his staff, Wenger hasn't done that. Man U never went soft, Wenger's squad has, zonal marking on corners FFS!!! As for this transfer window, as I've said many tmes, the jury is still out. We all know we needed a top notch striker and defensive midfielder to move us forward, and replace anyone who left. Well so far we've got Sanchez. Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be great, but also note we haven't signed players in the positions we really need. So, needless to say, I still haven't bought the shirt....

  358. KC

    Jul 30, 2014, 14:41 #54483

    Great read, offering a view from both sides. I agree with so much, so much to thank Wenger for but also questions over wage policy, transfer policy, defence approach, his choice of players etc. But without him we may have never reached a point where we expect to compete. Heres hoping the future is bright and we can now move up a level.

  359. Ron

    Jul 30, 2014, 14:25 #54482

    A well written post Pete as ever you do. I suppose the size of his salary has oiled the wheels of Wengers obvious agreement, be either a tacit or an express one, to be the lightening rod for fans criticisms. Its a fantastic achievement to have done 'top 4' over the last 10 years. Its foolish to say otherwise but some do of course. Its a big ask to ask a 64 old gent to shake off the caution and wariness that 10 years and more of a financial strightjacket have ****ded in his psyche. We all lose momentum as we get older and in his World where the best Coaches are getting younger and hungrier it must be tough in all fairness to Arsene. Ive often said that his record over the last 10 years stands scrutiny with his record up to 2005, for non football reasons of course. Is it enough to carry on though? I think not. He is a bit of an old dinosaur tactically now and couple it with his ideals and philosophy of footballs method of play and hes coming up short. From the Clubs perspective they should realise that we are healthy as you say, we aren't a bad side on the pitch, just not the best. Renewing the Coach while we are as we are is easier than waiting to do it when a severe decline sets in. It was time for Arsene in August 2011 in my view. He basically tired and devoid of new ideas to suit the new game of football (like it or detest it) that has evolved while the Club has been in hibernation.

  360. RJ

    Jul 30, 2014, 13:32 #54480

    ? WE won the FA Cup. We have made some good signings that for the first time in years mean we are stronger going into a new season than we ended the previous one. What is to be dissappointed about? That we still have a manager who is respected and admired by virtually everyone in the game? A manager who new players (Sanchez) say was instrumental to them singing for the club. Who new players (Chambers) are looking forward to working with. COYG.

  361. Galileo

    Jul 30, 2014, 13:31 #54479

    One critical element that has affected our fortune is the absence of steel and aggression in the middle of the team. It may not be all due to lack of adequate funding but to a great extent, Wenger's apetite for that style of play and team selection. There are players out there that can help fulfill our ambition of titles for decent money.

  362. Geoff

    Jul 30, 2014, 13:12 #54478

    You seem to answer your own question about why we haven't achieved in the last few years. We all know why..... Wealthy 'Sugar Daddys' appearing, distorting and altering the once 'level playing pitch'. So why criticise Wenger ? who can do it again with, at last, new available resources of our own prudent making. Lets sit back and see what happens and stop being so negative.... its a truly great, brilliantly run, full of integrity, financially sound club, and an example to the rest of the World.