In Wenger We Trust?

Will Le Boss complete the necessary transfer business after such a good July?



In Wenger We Trust?

Khedira – One of two purchases still required


As the start of the new Premier League season is almost upon us, I see the media is awash with fellow Gooners, and pundits alike, predicting that this could be Arsenal’s season. Well, let me be the Grim Reaper of the footballing community and insert my scythe into this bubble of confidence and tell you that this could be our biggest struggle yet.

So what reason do I have for wielding my blade into the hearts of Arsenal supporters and offering my prediction of doom and gloom? And don’t worry I’m not a closet Tottenham fan.

It’s the same old story I’m afraid but I can sum it up and point my indignation at one person... Arsene Wenger. Transfer window after transfer window has passed and not once has he addressed the areas of the team that are so blatantly in need of repair that his failure to resolve this perpetual issue has left me wondering whether he’s lost the plot. After all, this is a man on a salary of £7.5m who can’t seem to see that the squad is crying out for a defensive central midfielder, as well as a world class central defender to bolster a back line that, at times last season, seemed to forget the meaning of the words “clean sheet”.

After an indifferent World Cup, from an English point of view, the summer started out with a wave of excitement. Wenger loosened the purse-strings, that at one-time seemed to be permanently knotted, for the second time in the space of the year and beat Liverpool to the signature of Barcelona’s attacking midfielder, Alexis Sanchez. The Chilean forward starred in Brazil and had us Gooners drooling at the prospect of what our midfield and forward line could would do to Premier League defences. But no Central Midfielder?

July also saw the departure of right-back Bacary Sagna to feeder club Manchester City. Sagna was as solid as they come Sagna was a fans’ favourite and has seemingly been replaced with Newcastle’s Mathieu Debuchy, who it remains to be seen if he is in the same league as his French compatriot. But no Central Midfielder?

Then came David Ospina as back up in goal to Sczsesny, and Calum Chambers, a central defender who left via the revolving door at Southampton will be one for the future. But still no Central Midfielder?

The way I see the coming season, from the additions to our squad thus far, is that, similar to last season, going forward we will be more potent and our defensive capabilities will look superior compared to the lesser sides. But against well oiled, organised teams such as Chelski , we will be left red-faced once again, especially in light of Vermaelen’s departure. And I for one can’t handle any more lashings at the hands of the Premier League’s, so called, “elite.”

Having said that, if the daily torment in the papers would end and the everlasting whisperings of whether Sami Khedira and William Carvalho will join us would become fact, I would take all of my pessimism back. We all saw what Khedira did with Real Madrid (until his injury plagued 2013-14 season) and for Germany in the World Cup. A born winner, he would plug that gaping hole in midfield that the likes of Liverpool, Manchester City and Chelsea so easily exploited, break up opposition attacks and setup the counter.

Then there’s the lesser known William Carvalho of Sporting Lisbon. At 22 he is highly regarded and thought to be one of Europe’s up and coming superstars; a carbon copy of Patrick Vieira.

If Arsene was to capture one, or both, of these players, then the impending doom I currently feel would subside and give way to sheer an utter elation. Indeed, it would be me that would be filling fans’ forums and twitter feeds with notions of us being champions elect.

So please Arsene Wenger, hear my words. As it is, we stand to follow our usual route of showing promise but fall by the wayside due to your continual arrogance of believing that what we have is better than anything else out there. Consider that you may be wrong, that Mikel Arteta is a budget option and isn’t the man who will bring Championship winning success. I don’t want to be the bearer of bad news but time is running out and unless further, world class acquisitions are made, we’re heading for our recurrent seasonal disappointment.


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  1. Sheep

    Aug 17, 2014, 21:13 #55454

    MARCUS/Baaaa Humbug to you my wibbly wobbly wobby friend.Please can I have more of your tiddely widdely wisdom you old sage of everything Arse-centric.Let me grab those chubby chops and see thy wisdom unfold before my very eyes and let ye shower me in your verbal diamonday superbaticus splendour.

  2. BADARSE

    Aug 17, 2014, 20:04 #55447

    Sorry to upset you MARCUS. I do like teasing, but wouldn't want to really upset you-looks like I have though. Peace chum, Good old Arsenal.

  3. WENGER HAS GOT A LONG WAY TO GO TO CONVINCE ME (MARCUS)

    Aug 17, 2014, 18:27 #55440

    @BADARSE. What is your problem son?? You love to come on here and always try take little pot shots. We know you are so up wengers butt don't worry about that. We all know your head is so far up there, but don't come on here getting all mouthy when someone bashes your idol wenger!!! We our not all sheep like you or DELUDED AKBS. Also your argument against not buying the necessary dm, cf and cb we need is absolute AKB GOLD LOOL. "We cant afford to buy those players and we also cant afford the wages"" I thought we had the money now to compete MR AKB??? Also yes wenger wants to hurt me by not buying the necessary players yes he so does ohhhh Im hurt loool. What a deluded fool. Typical from akbs. There was another one on yesterday on talk sport who used the same delusional argument you just used and he got taken to the cleaners. Even a lot of my fellow arsenal fans called up or on twitter bashing him. We have the money now spend it!!! If you want to win you have to invest take the gamble. So if my shouting hurts you, well I did it on purpose to hurt you get it lool. See im using one of you pathetic little digs. Ohh I bet that hurt ohhh lool

  4. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 17, 2014, 17:40 #55435

    AMG, the fact he was the fans choice was most likely the reason he didn't get it, remember OGL listens to no one and won't be told what to do.

  5. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 17, 2014, 15:54 #55431

    BADARSE, I couldn't agree more mate, but fans like that (and I use the term fans lightly)deserve the same respect they give others.

  6. Bard

    Aug 17, 2014, 13:05 #55423

    Baddie; Sanogo out does create a problem which we could solve with Campbell. Sanogo is close to hopeless and if Wenger deemed Barry surplus to requirements I don't see how Sanogo is any better. The sub issue is a thorny one. Wilshere should have been replaced but the OX much earlier. Wenger never alters the timing of his subs whatever the state of the game. Its not his strong suit to my mind. Anyway all will be revealed very soon. We have City and Chelsea soon enough.

  7. BADARSE

    Aug 17, 2014, 12:05 #55418

    AMG your opinion may count for nowt at AFC but not with me. I think I appreciate all you say, though have just a slightly different perspective. You are correct with the arrival dates of both players, apologies for that. Your points have at least made me revue my outlook, so thank you for that chum.

  8. AMG

    Aug 17, 2014, 11:49 #55417

    BADARSE, I can acknowledge many of your positive points regarding Arteta, he is a diplomatic player and a very mature presence, but I think Per arrived a day before Arteta in the post 8-2 trolley dash, so to say he's too much of a newcomer is null (Per is actually a better passer than Arteta as well). I disagree that Arteta's positional sense makes up for his lack of speed, he has no feel for the position he's in, he's spent his whole career as a playmaker, never really having to offer much defensively. I agree his ability to receive the ball and distribute it calmly is still very strong, but we have many players who can do that and his lack of speed is now leading to him being caught in possession time and again without the legs to make a recovery tackle. In summary, he's a lovely guy, but not Arsenal standard and certainly not captain material. I am aware my opinion counts be nowt, he's one of Wenger's untouchables, like Cazorla, who will not get dropped no matter how poorly they're playing.

  9. BADARSE

    Aug 17, 2014, 11:10 #55416

    AMG you pedal a recognised party line regarding Arteta, but putting my head on the block I disagree. He is a natural choice as skipper and would certainly be my man. Sometimes you have to weigh many factors. The old Leeds Utd had Bremner as skipper, whilst all in the club were in awe at Jack Charlton's presence. He bawled at people on and off the pitch-a natural leader, but Bremner held it together. I'm sure in the services that the sergeant plays his part, whilst the captain fulfils a different role. Arteta carries so much respect from the squad, and is a very good diplomat. BFG is great and I am a big admirer, but is a relative newcomer and still carries out an important function despite not being the skipper; he is vice-captain so will get to wear it on quite a few occasions, and perhaps is destined for it next season. On the contribution of Arteta I again disagree. True the observations are correct in that he isn't the fastest, but usually his positional awareness compensates. His passing despite being criticised is top notch. Martin Keown once said, 'I just give it to Patrick, and he just gives it to Dennis.' The same with Arteta. Most attacks begin with him. My criticism is an old chestnut of mine-that he has just a main right foot. When he receives the ball he naturally opens his body and feeds it to the right. I wonder if it was the reason why Santi switched flanks yesterday to see more of the ball. He arguably has one good season left, but I don't think his input throughout the club, including the training ground, can be overlooked and would like to see him remain in some capacity, though unlikely. Recently he went on record saying he has taken the Ox under his wing to help develop him, as he rates him so highly, and sees a role as an older more experienced head vital in the lad's growth as a top player.

  10. AMG

    Aug 17, 2014, 10:43 #55415

    As if it was not enough of an insult that Arteta is wearing an Arsenal shirt, Wenger's only gone and given him the armband. To quote Jeff Wright, you couldn't make it up! Surely BFG is the captain, he's the fans choice, he's the captain in all but title? Arteta is a pathetic excuse for a player, once a very handy Denilson-type ball distributor, he's now the equivalent of a gaping hole in the midfield - Late to every tackle, averse to passing forwards, how can Wenger stick by him?! Buy a DM or we will see the same drubbings as last year, we probably won't win the title with one, because we're still light at centre-back, left-back, and up front, but we might not see anymore 6-0 scorelines. Here's hoping!

  11. BADARSE

    Aug 17, 2014, 10:05 #55414

    Hi again Athoz. Yeah that old third eye gets tired more quickly because it sees more. Am certain Joel will show against Besiktas. I think the decision to start Sanogo was a good one-gave both him and Giroud a message, also gave each game time. The Sours won't trouble us this season, am convinced of that-but have been wrong before. It is so important to keep perspective over personnel. Those Invincibles were very, very special. These boys are still getting used to each other, and new lads bedding-in. We should be moving more fluently by the time we meet Everton, we hope.

  12. Sambo

    Aug 17, 2014, 9:38 #55413

    Oh MARCUS why do you take everything at face value that comes out of Talk Sport.I've never heard Ray'sideways'Wilkins ever utter anything good about Arsenal he's so entrenched in those blue bores and Uniiited.Bard,better to take a seat late than not at all.

  13. Ozzie

    Aug 17, 2014, 8:58 #55412

    Morning Baddie, I watched half the game & taped the other as by half time it was almost 3.30am and I was struggling to keep da third eye open - especially after watching the earlier game of ManU being beaten which was most satisfying, not to mention watching Melbourne Storm in the afternoon. I note your second team stole it at the death, too, against the Hammers? Cant have a season without them breathing down our necks. What's with Campbell? Is AW saving him up for the CL or what? The legacy of the Invincibles is one in which many of us probably expect more of the team than they are capable - I have to remind myself this is not Henry, Bergy, Viera, Adams & Pires but as you say: 3 points in the bag and can only improve.

  14. BADARSE

    Aug 17, 2014, 8:43 #55411

    Bard if we sent Sanogo out on loan-which is a fair enough approach-we would need a striker to replace him. It would create another situation in addressing a problem, as you see it. Gibbs injury is ironic comment I realise but the subbing at or around 7o mins is a sensible one. Players dip at that time, and unless there are extreme or unusual circumstances you have to keep your powder dry in event of an emergency. I wouldn't even consider subbing earlier unless there was a real need. People taking a long time to get to their seats do it just to annoy you.

  15. BADARSE

    Aug 17, 2014, 8:27 #55410

    Watching MotD. Saw first game. Pundits obsessed with Man U, slipped in a little, 'Swansea, apart from Arsenal, passed the ball more successfully than anyone last season.' Amazement from panel afterwards that LvG had the wrong tactics, then conclusion that this mob wouldn't scare anyone. 'Backwards McDonald's United.' Now to watch us.

  16. Bard

    Aug 17, 2014, 7:44 #55409

    Enjoyed the game, although I don't know why fans take so long to get in their seats for a game. its ridiculous. The win is all that counts. we will get better. Too many touches and ring rust all round. An especially good result considering we played with 10 men. What Wenger sees in Sanogo i do not know. His technique is pitiful for a player wanting to play at this level. Send him out on loan and see what happens. Worryingly Kos looked as though he was injured at the end and it was refreshingly reassuring in a perverse way to see Gibbs go off injured for the umpteenth time as were the subs on the 70th minute. Some things just don't change. Onwards and upwards.

  17. BADARSE

    Aug 17, 2014, 7:09 #55408

    Evening Athoz, three points in the bag, though a tad nervy in getting them. Did you watch? Not the best KO time for you I suppose. MARCUS, I reckon Arsene Wenger just won't listen to you because he wants to frustrate and annoy you. If you keep shouting he may get fed up with the irritation and go out and spend on what you want. You only want three men at arguably around £100m, plus contracts around £20m p.a for four years, so another £80m. £180m? That's just loose change. The convincing part of your argument for me was that Ray Wilkins agrees with you. Now he is a heavyweight, and someone to listen to-though CFC decided not to.

  18. Mathew

    Aug 17, 2014, 6:14 #55407

    I wish Debuchy can cross like Sagna, still thinking Aurier would have been a better option. Defense looks leaky again and Gibbs got a hamstring injury already. Sanogo should be loaned out immediately and Campbell to play alongside Giroud.

  19. WENGER HAS GOT A LONG WAY TO CONVINCE ME(MARCUS0

    Aug 17, 2014, 5:13 #55406

    I could not agree with you more, only deluded akbs will think we can the pl with this squad SMH. Wenger now for years has not fixed our main problems. Everyone knows we need a cdm, a cb and a class striker, but one man seems oblivious to those needs. I wonder whether he knows everyone knows what we need, but because of hes stubborn nature he wants to prove them wrong by somehow winning with these inferior players namely; Areta, Giorud and Sanogo a guy who so technically poor its actually embarrassing he plays for us. I would actually take Welbeck ahead of that guy anyday of the week and I don't even rate welbeck. Says it all really. Let me use this analogy to described wengers transfer business. Its like you have a car but the engine is shoddy and needs replacement everyone can see it needs replacement, but you go out and buy a in car surround system?? It does not make sense as you have still yet to fix your MAIN ISSUE!!! The dam ENGINE!! Which you need to drive the dammm car. The same analogy applies to wenger. He never seems to want to fix the main issues with our squad so we always go into seasons with weakness, Why cant we go into a season fully strengthened?? i.e have a class striker, a class dm and a cover or class cb?? WHY?? I actually believe we can win the PL if we address those pressing issues. If we don't then we will struggle to beat the top teams as per usual. Actually I was impressed with the way we have been defending especially when we have the ball. We our not bombing forward and living open caps at the backs especially in the city and Crystal palace game today. We have balance so just MAYBE wenger has learned and changed hes tactical awareness. I was watching carefully and when we attacked against city and palace we left 4 players at the back i.e arteta and the back four. They were not especially the full backs caught out up the field leaving space at the back. Even Ray Wilkins mentioned it on talk sport, about how we look more balanced and our no longer susceptible to the counter which led to all those beatings we took last season. Actually one thing we have not improved it seems is our set piece defending SMH. We have to improve in that department, we conceded two early goals form set pieces in the 5-1 mauling at Liverpool. We have to be more tight in that department. We also conceded to against Hull in the fa cup final. I'm just not a fan of zonal marking it allows your marker to get a jump on you. I'm for the old fashioned man to man marking. I have heard we our in for that young greek cb who looked good during the world cup I hope that goes through. Also heard rumours we might get Cavani, now if that goes through we definitely have that class striker we have been missing since lets be honest RVP left. Giorud may huff and puff but hes simply not good enough. Hes a solid 15 minimum goals a season striker that's a good return for your second rate striker but not for your main striker IF YOU WANT TO WIN THE PL. Sanogo is just plain awful. He should be loaned out asap. I was not fooled by his so called tap in performance against Benefica. HES CRAP

  20. Ozzie

    Aug 17, 2014, 4:29 #55405

    Hahaha....lol....rofl...waffle...lol... hahaha....pathetic!

  21. Sambo

    Aug 16, 2014, 23:32 #55404

    Up down high and low Arsenal normally get the better of their opponents and they did today,yes it wasn't brilliant though victory was deserved and at the end Emirates a wave of red and white.Palace and some wob's heartbroken myself ecstatic.

  22. BADARSE

    Aug 16, 2014, 22:27 #55403

    At least Per will stay at home. Good performance again by Debuchy-MotM? Yes a draw will do, but have a feeling that we may nick it again. Modern football, eh? One side attacks and tries to create, the other slows down, breaks up, and defends. The creative side wins it, and for the pundits it's a disappointment. 'Yeah, feel sorry for Palace.' What? There is probably no other situation on earth where this scenario could be played out in such a paradoxical straight jacket. Anyway, top of the league as we go to bed tonight.

  23. Westlower

    Aug 16, 2014, 21:50 #55402

    No better time to score than in the dying embers of each half. Wonder how many Emirate attendees missed the goals? In the circumstances it was a good win. Palace had a perfect close season with none of their players away in Brazil, and didn't it show with their non stop physical commitment. It'll be hard for Palace to improve on their performance, whereas we will go on from today's low level show as the season progresses. All their players were at the races, unlike ours, especially Cazorla. If only we had a hard tackling, hard working, warrior like Chamakh. Although it's so much easier being destructive rather than creative. First time we've won on the opening day since 2008. A draw will suffice in Turkey on Tuesday before the visit to Everton on Saturday. Not helpful playing two games a week before we go back into yet another round of International fixtures.

  24. BADARSE

    Aug 16, 2014, 20:46 #55401

    We ran around the palace. We huffed, we puffed, but we couldn't blow it down. Then as it began to get dark the little match girl came along. Ah, Vesta! Strike a light, gor blimey, guv! We finally burnt down the palace. An annus horribilis for them? But Vesta, you kept our home fires burning. (Go away Vera Lynn, you are no good without the philharmonic!). Three points!

  25. WOB

    Aug 16, 2014, 19:56 #55400

    Gutted!

  26. DW Thomas

    Aug 16, 2014, 19:41 #55399

    All my pre game excitement was slowly eroded as the match played on. The same old Arsenal passing on the road to nowhere. Palace was poor. We created little. Dann going off changed the game. Wilshere played fairly well yet was subbed instead of Ramsey who was very average. Sanchez tried hard but our off the ball movement was very poor. Luckily Chambers, a star in the making, and Kos, except for their goal, played very well. But we weren't threatened much. There was a few moment where Ox and Cazorla passed the ball out of bounds trying to reach each other. Awful stuff, like kids in a little league. Sanogo's touch and overall play were simply not up to even the Championship levels. If this is the type of display we get all season, it willbe a long one. Even Lee Dixon kept saying we need to use the width against them. Arsene looks totally devoid of tactics. And our striking options are very very thin. On the plus side our backs looked solid,, though not pressured too badly, but Gibbs could be injured, AGAIN, and we're one game in. Our team looked no better than last season. Tippy tappy to nowhere, and relying on corners to score? Hangeland hadn't scored in 95+ games! We are always allowing that type of thing/record to be broken!! It is obvious to me we need another 1-2 players to up our level of offensive ability. Costa, Aguero, Suarez, Van Persie. These are game changers! We don't have one. And Ramsey got lucky. Looking at this game for a moment in a positive light, maybe it's just one of those games where we squeak out a win. We will have those I agree. But Palace just lost their coach. These games we should put to bed early. When will we start showing our title credentials!?

  27. BADARSE

    Aug 16, 2014, 16:51 #55398

    No apology necessary DWT, recently I referred to Boreham Wood as Barnet, until westlower corrected me. I'd thought B Wood and typed Barnet-as we played them regularly as a pre season game. Again I see your argument as flawed though. Fire him? What would be the remit of his job or task? What criteria would be employed to decide on his success or failure? It's abit like amarriage break up, which party caused it, or was responsible for it. Sometimes it's impossible to apportion blame so we say, 'Oh it just didn't work out.' It's true though that he probably wouldn't have lasted at another club for as long, thereby marking a difference in class between AFC and the rest. Pity that example will be a thorn in your side Bard, but it is another reason why I might applaud Arsenal. How did Man U get on today?

  28. DW Thomas

    Aug 16, 2014, 15:10 #55397

    Sorry lads, meant CP about the game! Sure, I am in no way saying Wenger apologists don't have decent arguments. But if it were a court case about keeping his job, the evidence would be a little overwhelming to fire him, compared to the status quo of other managers tenures. Unless, of course, 4th is a trophy and money is more important than winning. It all comes down to that for me. Do you value trophy challenges/wins, or money? CL status, or a desire to go all out to achieve more? And yes, that often involves spending a little more money. $1 million on Schwarzer an example!

  29. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 16, 2014, 13:13 #55396

    Sambo, Gare K has been posting on here regularly for seasons now and anybody that read what he had to say wouldn't think he's anything but a gooner but the fact your a blow in yourself you wouldn't know that. Maybe you should take your own advice.

  30. BADARSE

    Aug 16, 2014, 13:07 #55395

    I am he, as you are he, as you are me, and we are all together, together, together.

  31. Fred

    Aug 16, 2014, 12:41 #55394

    hahaha ...lol@trollhunter ... does he have more than one identity?? .... if me and amos are the same person you only have to ban one to ban the other ... lol ... we shall see ! ... rofl

  32. Troll Hunter

    Aug 16, 2014, 12:04 #55393

    Careless words gave you away Fred. We now know you are Amos. I assume the site admin will now check this and ban you both which is a shame as the posts by Amos are reasonable, but those by Fred are clearly trolling.

  33. Westlower

    Aug 16, 2014, 9:27 #55392

    'DWT, Of course Wenger has 'full control' over transfers. Full control meaning the players of his choice & valuation. Why wouldn't you use his vast experience & knowledge in getting a true valuation of a players worth? Who at AFC is more capable? Dick Law & IG then negotiate a transfer fee & players personal terms within the clubs agreed financial parameters. Unlike CFC, Stan or any board member, don't choose the incoming players. It has to be Wengers decision, any other method is unacceptable. There is no dishonesty in announcing ticket sales per game v actual bums on seats. Although when we play the Sours, there are an extra amount of bums in the stadium, Gooners 53,000; Bums 7,000. The media are sometimes right but often mischievous. An exaggerated or misrepresented story is usually a better read than the actual truth. I fancy it'll be the usual home game this afternoon trying to find a way through, over or around the parked bus. 0-0 is a 12/1 shot.

  34. Amos

    Aug 16, 2014, 9:10 #55391

    There are undoubtedly passionate and sometimes coherent arguments against some decisions the club and Wenger have made over the last 10 years. There are equally passionate, and in my opinion at least, more coherent arguments which support the notion that the club and Wenger have got more right than wrong in this period. The arguments against Wenger and the club can be distilled down to the simple fact that we haven't won as many trophies in the last 10 years as we did in the previous 10 years but would have done so if we'd just spent more money. The arguments in support of the club tend to look behind that simple fact to try to see what external factors existed over latter 10 year period that would have impacted on the competitive environment. There're plenty of them financial 'doping', changes in player contract laws, stadium investment, net debt levels et c., all far more nuanced and complex than the comparatively simplistic, and therefore appealing notion that if we'd spent a little more money we would have won more trophies. The advantage of arguing retrospectively is that it can't often be proven wrong. The contention that if we'd done things differently the result would have been different seems logical enough but the presumption that the outcome would automatically have been better and not worse isn't and there's little coherence in any argument that says it would. So while I get the passion in the anti-wenger stance, though it often manifests as hostility and antagonism, the contention that it's more coherent than those broadly supportive of the club and its manager seems a pretty bogus one.

  35. Wengerballs

    Aug 16, 2014, 8:46 #55390

    Totally agree 100%. Same old same old. In fact we are weaker defensively than last season without a DM and CM before August. Fourth place again without a doubt.

  36. Fred

    Aug 16, 2014, 8:31 #55389

    hahaha ... lol@dwthomas ... all wenger criticism is justified ... all wenger support isnt ... and only his opinion is rational! ...lol ... me and bard say this again ... its deluded arrogance ...lol .. dwt has no time machine to see in the future .... but he can see that everything we do is wrong ... lol ... he tells us he has rational thought and understands facts and statements ... but doesnt understand that all the teams with world club players in their squad have had their preseason affected .... he tells us he can see with crystal clarity .... and is looking forward to the QPR game!!! ... he dont say if its the one scheduled in december or march ... lol ... he dont say if hes looking forward to our next game against crystal palace ... but maybe he cant see that far ahead ! ... lmao ... arrogant wobs and amgs cant even see that they are the ones wearing blinkers ... rofl

  37. BADARSE

    Aug 16, 2014, 8:18 #55388

    Good morning my little crystal ball gazers, able to see into the ball, but have difficulty seeing through it. No more crystals today gentlefolk. In 1936 the Crystal Palace burnt down-we won the FA Cup that year. Well the FA Cup again sits proudly in our trophy cabinet this morning, let's go and burn the Crystal Palace down once more. DWT I genuinely think you are caught in a loop buddy. Things are said on here to counter or explain your misgivings and then you revert to type, so much like Bard, and I guess others who have a negative agenda, extreme views, or just a need to stick with your comfort zone. It's OK with me but a little odd. You have used the 'family' attitude before and it has been challenged by yours truly, yet it still finds it's way into your posts. Not a big deal, but illustrative in a reluctance to change. We often temper judgements if it is a close friend or family member who has slipped, but that is as far as it should go. Everyone should have the same leniency or understanding when they slip, even those who are very anti AW, or even AFC. This may be at the root of your problem, a narrowing of perspective perhaps? Seeing life through a prism? Those who may not want the manager's head, are just people expressing a view. Passion, coherent arguments of some anti posters? Well up to a point, but some are wolves in sheep's clothing who are aggressive or insulting when challenged. I do agree that the posting has developed to playground level, but that is always likely to happen, adults are generally just big kids. The way forward is to ignore rudeness in any form, by disagreeing with those championing your view, and ignoring completely those who oppose. Anyway chum, let's get this show on the road and get a win today. Good old Arsenal.

  38. DW Thomas

    Aug 16, 2014, 6:04 #55387

    Somebody mentioned it earlier, the nerve touched responses by the Wenger loyalists when facts are presented that show their fearless leader in a not so royal light! I can understand someone defending with such vitriol a spouse or family member if verbally attacked unfairly or harshly, but a football club? Man you fellas need to get some perspective in life. It's a football club! I love Arsenal and brag about them to many people. I was just talking to a young footballer about Zelalem and the beginning of this new season. Sad, laughable characters, huh? This site's been going downhill lately. We used to have passioned, educated arguments with very little nonsense or name calling. It's like we're little boys on the playground and whoever screams the loudest and fiercest wins. Well not with me. It's rational thought and looking at facts and statements that together overwhelmingly convince me of my views. Those of us that want change have no shady agenda. In fact it's clear to see. Crystal. We want better and no one man should be treated like an emporer of Arsenal just because of past glories and overt arrogance. And I will enjoy the QPR game. Despite how low the discussions on here have fallen recently, I still enjoy my fellow Gooners, or anyone with some football knowledge who is a fan of a team. Being a fan doesn't mean being a mug! And the media is sometimes spot on!

  39. DW Thomas

    Aug 16, 2014, 5:41 #55386

    Now we get excuses about not being ready due to the WC! And Wenger admits he has full control over transfers. So where does the buck stop now? Can he finally take responsibility for his failure in building his teams over the past 6-7 years? And what must the players think again when he is already making excuses for failure? Sagna must be thinking why didn't I leave earlier. I can't stand players leaving for more ridiculous money and feel for Wenger when they do go, but maybe he is the root of his own problems as they realize the club's decisions don't lead to trophies. In fact, they are money driven and put that before sport glory. Maybe this season will be different, I hope so. But, I have no time machine to see that future. No one does. All we can do is support the lads, go game by game, require and expect excellence as fans, and call out the bs when we see it!

  40. Sambo

    Aug 16, 2014, 5:23 #55385

    DW Thomas:Another lightweight self opinionated fan,who just brushes aside the money doping clubs like they never happened and Don Fergus and his control of things in the wide blue yonder.Too much time spent having his brain conditioned by the anti-Arsenal luvvies to certainly be of any use to Arsenal football club itself.Why do wob's all parrott the same dung that they've been clearly spoon fed by the media, I've yet to meet one with a different opinion.Sad laughable characters shuffling around looking out for the latest negative they can throw out about the club to fit their shady agendas...

  41. DW Thomas

    Aug 16, 2014, 1:33 #55384

    Wow. Some of the Wenger lackeys on here astonish me with the way they twist facts and rewrite history. To say we have achieved in the last 10 years just a little drier than Wenger did in his first 8-9 may be the most ludicrous thing I've heard on here in all my years of reading. He won 3 PL tiles, went undefeated, 4 FA cups and a CL final. CL qualification and 1 FA Cup to compare? And some terrible losses, maybe some of the worst in our history?? We all have opinions, some more informed and reasoned than others,,obviously. I can handle an optimist and supporter of Wenger. But saying he has achieved in the last 10 years is a gross overstatement. Ron, Tony Evans, Bard, Jeff W, Gary K and others always give the most coherent arguments with passion yes, but also thought. Some of you newer posters only want to criticize and analyze posters witht opposing views and lack a logical argument yourselves. I,do agree you can interpret his tenure differently, Wenger, but be honest with yourselves and really look within at your definition of winning. Mine ends with a trophy in hand. Not just cash!

  42. Fred

    Aug 16, 2014, 0:12 #55383

    hahaha ... lol@bard ... cant accept there is anything positive about arsenal ... signing young players from other clubs didnt start under wenger .... signing young players within fifa rules isnt pinching young players ... most other premier league clubs report tickets sold as attendances .... nothing dishonest about it all ... but bard sees these everyday practices as evidence of arsenals moral degeneration ... because that is what he wants to see! ... lol ... now theres deluded arrogance for you .. rofl ... i will say this again ... theres deluded arrogance for you ... lol

  43. Sambo

    Aug 15, 2014, 23:00 #55382

    What the hell are you on Bard, you Maguirebridge Gare k seem to have no knowledge or care for the traditions of this great club.You seem like a typical effeminate no backbone fan that seems the norm nowadays amongst the anti Arsenal fraternity.You're too weak mate and would probably go running off to the chavs if things arn't going well.If you're gonna be a gunner you have to be a stayer and someone who understands the traditions,the history,the style and the class.You my friend strike me as being more of a Piers Moprgan or Dale Winton character someone old school Arsenal fans would rather they kept away from.

  44. BADARSE

    Aug 15, 2014, 22:20 #55381

    Too difficult to explain Bard. You've muddled things again.

  45. Bard

    Aug 15, 2014, 22:14 #55380

    My word the disciples have been busy. A nerve has been well and truly touched.The idea that our beloved club's morality might be questioned is a step too far for some. I had mistakenly thought we were a football club not a religious movement. Arsenal pinch young players from other clubs, they exploit whatever loophole they can. I read today that they have been less than honest about attendances at the ground. None of this bothers me much as its part of modern day football but it doesn't sit well with those who believe that doing things 'the right way' is a trophy in itself and provides some kind of solace against the charge that we never win anything. I will say it again this is deluded arrogance. The next thing we will be reading is that Silent Stan loves Arsenal and always has since he was a boy, rather than the truth which is that he is an opportunistic investor looking to make money. The 'Arsenal way", what the hell is that?

  46. Sambo

    Aug 15, 2014, 20:51 #55379

    A Wob whose interested in sensible rational debate!Now there's a new one.

  47. BADARSE

    Aug 15, 2014, 20:51 #55378

    Well done Gare K. Just a point to make in all this. In today's world people are colour blind in the sense that they often only see black and white. This statement is not up for debate, it is an axiom of our current society, or that of us and the USA. People are sucked into a position and believe it to be the only position available, lines are drawn in broad brush strokes. Any slight deviation and it is seen as oppositional. It is a dangerous way of thinking. Some can only think in straight lines, others who have more ability are seduced into following a script written by others. It is this very narrowness which allowed that halfwit George W. Bush to make such a daft statement, and get away with it, the one which goes, 'You are either with us or against us!' I certainly wasn't against his people, but wasn't with his demand for war either, thereby proving there is other ground upon which some might tread. I don't treat anyone as a god, and only kiss my wife's bottom, given half a chance. You have a perfect right to post your views, and if I am not that extreme fan as you describe others might be, perhaps we two are closer than you might think. That is true of a number on this website, Bard, maguiresbridge to name but two, good lads who just like nicking my socks and mushrooms. Good old Arsenal.

  48. Gare K

    Aug 15, 2014, 20:29 #55377

    BARDASRE; as per usual, cheers buddy for the sensible response to the near mindless. Yes, all clubs are tacky including our own but it won’t stop me supporting them ditto fans of other clubs. But in the eyes of the likes of Sambo & the fake MARCUS I’m one of Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool or Tottenham because I refuse to sing the ‘Wenger is God’ hymn sheet. I may not kiss Wenger’s backside in the way that people like him do but I don’t hate him either. Like I said earlier, I’m not going to bother with the likes of Sambo because he has made his mind on me without seeing my comments of old as regulars like you have & he’s not interested in sensible rational debate that people like you are.

  49. BADARSE

    Aug 15, 2014, 20:23 #55376

    Sambo I stand corrected on your moniker.

  50. Pete

    Aug 15, 2014, 20:04 #55375

    Fancy a arm wrestle in row G?

  51. Sambo

    Aug 15, 2014, 19:32 #55374

    My name is Sambo after the great Russian martial arts so no need to change it.I know my history better than most,and will happily destroy anybody who puts Arsenal down especially WOB's and spuds who I find generally to be cowards and traitors.

  52. Man United Killer

    Aug 15, 2014, 19:19 #55373

    If we don't find someone better than Giroud (lamppost)who actually makes run, we won't win anything significant. Why cant Wenger see this!!!

  53. BADARSE

    Aug 15, 2014, 19:18 #55372

    Gare K, take it down a level buddy. I know you are a Gooner, you also know, and we are the only two that matter. Only joking. Sambeau is a newcomer so doesn't know your history, how it is steeped in traditional values and magnanimity, so show him. We are fans of AFC and really we shouldn't keep biting each other. Your view is perfectly valid and fine if you believe all clubs are a little bit tacky, but tackiness all to the same degree? Anyway, just personal views. That is also not MARCUS posting, it is far too quiet for him. Remember, you too maguiresbridge, together, together, together.

  54. Sambo

    Aug 15, 2014, 19:13 #55371

    Gare-K-I bet you have an enormous red balloon for a head and every now and again it bursts and out of it comes the most ridiculous verbiage known to man.Please tell me it's true.

  55. MARCUS

    Aug 15, 2014, 19:01 #55370

    Gare K-Im the biggest WOB there is and love slagging off WENGER whenever I can but you are a NITWIT of the first order.CALL YOURSELF A GOONER. YOU ARE A SPUD AT BEST.GO BACK TO GORY GLORY OR WHAT OTHER GIRLY SITE YOU DULLARDS USE.

  56. Anti-Wenger

    Aug 15, 2014, 17:50 #55369

    Most times i don't understand this Arsene Wenger. Does he believe really that Arteta or Wilshere is the best DM option Arsenal can afford? They can afford SCHNEIRDERLIN, BENDER,W.CARVALLHIO at least, even if only as back up to his beloved Arteta. I know Wenger will point to Diaby as an option, but any reasonable person cannot start his season counting Diaby as part of his squad, not until he ever manages to play for 3 months without injury. I can only conclude that Wenger tries to give himself an Alibi to fail.He just doesn't want to have a complete squad and be counted among the favourites, as this will increase the expectations and pressure on him to win.

  57. BADARSE

    Aug 15, 2014, 17:37 #55368

    It's not round, it's spherical, on such margins decisions are made, and views are formed. Did you realise there is no up in space? With that in mind, as Europe was the most powerful and controlling body it was decreed that Europe occupied the Northern Hemisphere, being drawn above the Southern Hemisphere naturally, and those on top are symbolically superior. As an exercise, turn a map upside down, it is an odd picture that you see. Then climb into the cupboard under the stairs and sing a verse of 'Only the Lonely'. Climb out and make a cuppa, sit and take a sip, ahh, the world is good. Good old Arsenal.

  58. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 15, 2014, 17:30 #55367

    Quip of the day from DW and so early, fans gullible to his arrogance can be shown the world is round but still believe its flat.

  59. BADARSE

    Aug 15, 2014, 17:12 #55366

    They seek him here, they seek him there, those AKB's seek him everywhere. Is he in heaven? Is he in hell? That damned elusive maguiresbridge, tell. Hi fella, many do have higher expectations, honestly! Ignore the shadows on the wall, and don't search under the bed. You need to take a walk with me, set a while, down a pint-slowly. Listen to the rippling sound of the stream, ignore the babbling noise, that will be me. A few deep breaths, fill your lungs, try a smile. Then I'd get you a second beer, and the sun would warm your shoulders. You mustn't try to eat the butterflies as they flutter past, no need to bark or moo, that is just a natural reaction as the darkness dissipates. Sunshine can do more than warm you, it can light your way. Gooners together.

  60. BADARSE

    Aug 15, 2014, 16:52 #55365

    'High moral ground', is a concept, and as with all conceptions it is open to interpretation. We have had some occasions since the days of Herbert Chapman where we have stood alone-this is when the real Arsenal was born. In general terms AFC have remained a template for the way things should be done, why there is even the phrase, 'The Arsenal way.' Our history is second to none. The first to do this, the first to introduce something else, the first, the first. Our heritage is something quite different. Had a nuclear holocaust occurred in the sixties, then I, no doubt, would be the old greybeard, sitting around the campfire-looking like an ageing hippie, chanting. My chants would tell a message of what was The Arsenal, and I would have many young listeners, enthralled. My songs would weave patterns in the smoke; that being just before the devastation an embodiment of all that was good in competitive sport existed at Highbury. A nuclear war now, and I would have to add countless more verses to convey the message. I grew up realising we were different, and despite the grubbiness which touches and soils us all, Arsenal FC, is still a footballing paragon. One story to end with. Johnny Haynes, one of the best passes of a ball ever, had signed for Fulham, but he was an Arsenal fan. Behind the scenes he pleaded for Arsenal to sign him, and was told in no uncertain terms that although we would welcome his ability at Arsenal, we would not attempt to secure him at Fulham's expense-it was not the Arsenal way. Times have changed, society with them, but if all around is in darkness then one football club is a beacon, and that club gentlefolk, is Arsenal.

  61. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 15, 2014, 16:51 #55364

    BADARSE, i'm still here i dont know any invivible fans only the ones that dissapear after we're beaten or humilated. And nobody i know will be downgrading their expectations either especially about OGL maybe that's because they were never upgraded in the first place.

  62. Gare K

    Aug 15, 2014, 16:48 #55363

    Sambo; I'm not even going to bother with so-called 'fans' like you. For the record, I'm season ticket holder so don't you ever question who I support without knowing who I am. People like you are the reason why I don't visit & comment on this site as often as I used to because people like you can't have a proper debate, only to slag off to prove you're a 'proper Gooner'. Until you can have one, go & do one. Sir Henry Norris; as someone who works in televised football production, I do know my football history on many clubs. Don't ever imply that I'm a Tottenham fan too. KMT.

  63. Sir Henry Norris

    Aug 15, 2014, 16:24 #55362

    Gary K- Fancy reminding us how Tottenham gained their Football League status by bribing Stoke into not seeking re-election? Or how in our promotion season Man Utd and Liverpool fixed their game in order to relegate Chelsea? And if, you know, your history....

  64. Sambo

    Aug 15, 2014, 16:04 #55361

    Gare K.Your fooling nobody by pretending to be a Gooner,even the wob's wouldn't stoop that low and that's saying something.Just slip back into your spuddy/chavy/mancy cesspit or wherever you come from.

  65. Gare K

    Aug 15, 2014, 15:59 #55360

    The Arsenal having a 'high moral ground' over every other club, don't make me laugh. Remind me how we gained our top flight place back in 1919 again?

  66. Sambo

    Aug 15, 2014, 15:53 #55359

    Bard and his groovy gang will never be content,it's not in their natures.They think that just buying up whatever the media tells them are the best players is the only answer.If it was that simple Chelsea or City would win it every year.Grow up wob's and stop acting like brainwashed children.

  67. The Cult of Wenger will never die

    Aug 15, 2014, 14:57 #55358

    Wow Gunner be proud, you sure are the proof!

  68. Gunner be proud

    Aug 15, 2014, 14:41 #55357

    A lot of what is said by many contributors seems to result in the rather caustic personalisation of matters too much i think. Im not wanting to be overly critical of others either. There are truly some excellent contributions on here. Im referring though to the buck and blame for what is perceived as Arsenals failures always stopping only at Mr Ws door as opposed to looking at the Coach as part of the Clubs global ethos and ways of doing things. Ive never seen Mr W as being a man doing his own thing. I honestly haven't.Had he have done so, then the blame would carry weight to a greater degree of course. He s more doing what his employer asks of him within the parameters in which they allow him to operate. He will doubtless advise them in all matters of spending/how much can be justified and so on regarding the team when needed of course and after 18 years his view carries much weight and so it ought in my view. Such have been the changes at Arsenal they have needed a closeness with their coach that perhaps isnt always there or even needed at most Clubs, otherwise this ground move and all thats gone with it could have been an unmitigated disaster . We are lucky to have a man that the Club trusts as they do and one who does it with sound sense and humility in the main. His Bosses employ him to do that and he will perhaps sometimes advise in ways that with hindsight, he may later wish he hadnt. Thats life and its certainly manageament. To have maintained the CL run as he has is nothing short of incredible i think as the Club has evolved. Imagine what other Clubs must think when they look at that record? Maximum respect for the Club and Coach prevails at other Clubs im sure of that. Our fans largely think so as well, im equally sure of. The top clubs have all had periods away from the tournament and the real '2nd tier' clubs strive manfully to get there only but once or twice, yet usually fail and it often appears to me to be due to poor coaching and management in my respectful view to those men who do a damned tough job at Clubs asking them to achieve what we do more or less routinely, yet dont offer their coaches the conditions to achieve it. There have been one or two disappointing losses in it for sure, but usually against fine teams who it was a privilege to be playing in fairness in context of our European history overall. The Club and Mr W has succeeded beyond all expectations since we left Highbury for me. It sounds extreme but many clubs trying the same might even have lost their premiership status in doing the same. A sobering thought surely? Im pretty sure most business planners wouldnt advise a club to shift stadia for fear of the percentage risk calculation.Its hard and stressful enough just moving business premises to another high street building gentlemen!Lets ease off Mr W and celebrate him. He deserves it and so do all his players who've been asked to put a red shirt on for the last 9 years, for better or (admittedly in some cases), for worse. We are very lucky to follow such a Club in my opinion.

  69. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 15, 2014, 14:05 #55356

    MARCUS, good post yourself and thanks, i hope that doesn't annoy to many.

  70. Westlower

    Aug 15, 2014, 13:28 #55355

    To all those holding their breath for the next 'big' signing, it won't happen until after 28th August, when AFC have qualified for CL proper. Unlike some 'elite' clubs, AFC never spend money they don't have. Dear Prudence........

  71. Spaced

    Aug 15, 2014, 13:13 #55354

    Excellent posts Gunner Be Proud, you sum up a lot of my thinking when I read the comments in this forum. I was just thinking, when I got to your post, about how those that moan are always so impatient. Yes, we have got ourselves in a strong financial situation and have money to spend, but lets not blow it all in one go. Others have done that and it doesn't work. If we don't get the right people this summer, maybe we will get them next summer. The team is constantly evolving as well as the club... I can see a lot of progress with these recent signings and have faith that Wenger will add more strength to the squad soon. If we continue to manage our funds and spend well and wisely, success will be assured. Our future is bright!

  72. Amos

    Aug 15, 2014, 12:40 #55353

    The only reason your opinions were portrayed as arrogant and moralistic gooner be proud is because of the belief that they can then be dismissed without having to deal with the substance of your opinion. It's a form of straw man argument. You just create a different target to shoot down. I think your message is sensible and proportionate. We have come along way over the last couple of decades and while the last decade has been a little drier in terms of trophies than the first it hasn't been without its achievements. To see that isn't an acceptance of mediocrity at all. Had we decided to chase rainbows in that period, attempting to usurp Abramovich and Mansour, it would have left us much weaker to pursue enduring success than we are now. That I think could be seen as acceptance of mediocrity. The belief that we could never be more than we were. That if we don't win now we can't win tomorrow. Whatever mistakes were made the big decisions were right and because of those decisions we've retained and enhanced our ability to compete on a sustained basis.

  73. BADARSE

    Aug 15, 2014, 12:34 #55352

    Last night The Simpsons had a theme whereby Homer (dreamt) had gone into a magical artificial play world. He was sublimely happy as nothing ever went wrong, everyone stayed young and yes, it was plastic. At one stage he had to decide if he wanted reality or a continued existence in this pretend life, he chose the imaginary world. It was only towards the end of the programme that he realised there was no substitute for reality-he went back to it. I am not saying it is an exact overlay of conceptions but some would do better to join the real world. You don't always win, but when you do it is the ambrosia and nectar of existence. Be quiet Wittgenstein!

  74. Gunner be proud

    Aug 15, 2014, 11:44 #55351

    Its regrettable that my opinion is seen as arrogant and moralistic. It wasn't meant to be.I don't think there are many morals in football so we can agree on that one and its too big a subject to consider on here anyway. I'm coming from the place where Arsenal in 2005/6 became a 'new business' in essence. Since then they have developed and travelled further in 9 years than they have in the previous 116. As a small businessman myself since 2001 i can say that growing a business takes 7-8 years just to become established. Its not easy and one as large and in such an uncertain world as a football club is precarious in the extreme. They on their own admission too made a few mistakes in planning the venture, only rectified in the last 2 years. I think Arsenal have always had class, call it moral high ground if you want to. I didn't use that description as i dont think its correct. As you use the City Chelsea comparison though, its reasonable to take the view i think that neither Club had much tradition history or class before they were usurped by the cash influx of Mr A and Mr M. Arsenal have and do have class and tradition that as a long time supporter i have always been proud of and remain so. I'm not minded going to apologise for that. Theres far too little class and tradition left in everything in this Country and Arsenal should be applauded for trying to retain theirs. In saying this, it has perhaps hamstrung and to an extent weighed heavily on the Club in how they manage themselves, ill accept that, but again im proud that the Club hasn't simply cast off its trappings and prestige in the rush for trophies and short term glory. Chelsea and City didnt have such concerns. Well done to them both i say though. I enjoy watching City play football on TV too, i do Chelsea at times. I'm not at all envious of these Clubs achievements. I want them for Arsenal though just as you do. Where we differ is the speed at which we get them. I think Arsenal have done a lot right and i venture most, if not all Chairman and owners hold up Arsenals way as a fine example of Club management and more over an example that they aspire to. I think carry on Arsenal as you are and your new signings are superb. Once again Mr W has allowed a player to leave at exactly the right price and on good terms with us as he always strives to do. I think young Mr Chamberlain will be a very good player too. hes an impressive young man. I do have a few doubts about us at the back as many do, but i think we shall be OK. Young Gibbs needs a bit of work on his defensive duties perhaps, as he seems to play a little too much in a detached way from his central defenders for me. We perhaps lack a Parlour or a Brian Talbot type in there though?

  75. Amos

    Aug 15, 2014, 11:37 #55350

    I'm sure there's a perception among some fans or followers of Arsenal that we should have won back to back titles and the treble of CL, PL & FAC by now Bard. The origin of such perceptions is as irrelevant as whether everyone agrees whether we are an elite club, second tier club or just Arsenal Football Club. Debates about what players we need whether CB, DM or keeper are part and parcel of everyday football chit-chat and are little more than that whatever achievements we may or may not have. The arrogance in such debates is the idea that as supporters we should always hold the moral high ground, superior to that of the manager and club executives, when it comes to such opinions. The reality is that the opinions of fans are by comparison inevitably more likely to be under-informed and/or ill-informed. I doubt that every neutral fan is drawn only by trophies. Of the 14m supporters who attend PL matches last season only 2m saw their clubs win trophies last season. It's much the same every season. Most football supporters aren't drawn by trophies at all hence far and away the majority of football fans in the PL and every league in Europe don't support teams that win trophies. In most cases they haven't seen their clubs win major trophies for many decades. I'm not by any means a neutral fan but in those situations where I can be neutral I would also favour the style of football over trophies.

  76. Bard

    Aug 15, 2014, 11:00 #55349

    The origin of the notion that we are in the elite group of clubs is irrelevant to my mind. Its clear from Rachel's post, numerous comments here, other blogs, the Club and the media that there is a perception that Arsenal should be fighting at the elite end. Thats why there are all these debates about needing a new CB or a DM or a keeper. Gunner be proud; many of your comments are examples of the kind of arrogance that runs through the club and some of the fans. Its the idea that Arsenal hold the moral high ground, that we as a club operate on another moral plane and would never sink as low as the City's and Chelsea's of this world. My view is that the morality issue is relative. Arsenal may not be as dirty but they sure as hell aren't clean or transparent. Secondly that argument is an excuse for failure and an acceptance of mediocrity. I doubt many neutral fans would chose a trophyless decade over a club that has won 10 trophies in the same time including the CL.

  77. BADARSE

    Aug 15, 2014, 9:39 #55348

    Thought I knew a fair bit about Martin (warrior) Keown julesd, just discovered he was the dancer of the team and would dance for the lads in the dressing room to Michael Jackson music. He has just gone up another notch in my book, because had I been offered a job as a reindeer for Father Xmas' sleigh I would have insisted my name was 'Dancer'. Would have lost me socks though!

  78. Westlower

    Aug 15, 2014, 9:32 #55347

    'Gunner be proud, Best post I've read in ages. Agree wholeheartedly with every word & sentiment. Evolution over revolution is the Arsenal way. 'Victory through Harmony' has stood the test of time. Isn't it reassuring to know that we'll finish the season with the same manager we start out with. How many clubs, elite or otherwise, can say that?

  79. julesd

    Aug 15, 2014, 8:43 #55346

    Great 2 page interview with Martin Keown in today's Daily Mail. Martin reckons Arsene has got his mojo back plus many tales of Martin's numerous confrontations. Go read.

  80. Thomas Redburn

    Aug 15, 2014, 8:41 #55345

    Wenger has stated that he doesn't need Khedira as he has Jack Wheelchair. What a laugh... How can a player that is crocked for 3-4 months of the year and then when he's present on the field, spend as much time on his backside as he does running around like a headless chicken be the answer? Seriously? Wilshere has a lot of growing up to do, particularly on the pitch. His performances for Arsenal and England have been below par but of course Wenger doesn't echo the sentiments of what seems blatantly obvious.

  81. Fred

    Aug 15, 2014, 8:09 #55344

    hahaha .... lol@dwthomas ... unthinkable that we havent won a title in 10 years .... true if you dont think at all ... lol

  82. BADARSE

    Aug 15, 2014, 8:04 #55343

    In a rush but the camp is in good hands. Tremendous posts Amos and Gunner be proud. Be proud to sit alongside you both. Keep the faith Gooners.

  83. Sambo

    Aug 15, 2014, 7:55 #55342

    Man City,United and Barcelona are always scrapping to buy our cast offs,I think that shows the true position which we are in.

  84. Amos

    Aug 15, 2014, 7:36 #55341

    DW Thomas. I'm not quite sure how you're interpreting the Gazidis quote you gave but I don't see what about it you consider to be bs. I would have thought that the clubs motivations for investing in revenue generating resources over the last 10 years has been explained often enough over that period to have been clear to everyone. You seem to have some issue with some claims you think some supporters might have made but that's hardly the clubs fault. Bard suggested that the clubs PR misleads supporters while you suggest that some supporters have failed to understand what they've been told which is the same point I made.

  85. Gunner be proud

    Aug 15, 2014, 7:20 #55340

    Im not saying the club is in the best fettle on the pitch, im just saying listening to a chief executive's quotes is one thing, but the veracity of them is another. IG is a front man, marketing man, like any CE. That has to be remembered. its his job. I agree that the team does lack in a few vital positions. The boss does give too much emphasis on style over substance too. Hes the man that has given many fans these ramped up expectations of reaching a level of BM and other clubs though dont forget. In the grand scheme of things and to put it all in a historic perspective, to get to where we have in 19 years is amazing. i use 19 years as a time frame as that was when the bung scandal engulfed us. Its no time at all and we will evolve further and yes probably only post Mr Wenger. Context is everything. The Club for over 100 years would have laughed at the very notion of reaching such a status as they are at now. Now we are there, there is the need for the club to really start to believe in itself as a major player. Good point that. its coming though. The FAC and the CS even are all vital stepping stones to attaining that belief. It takes time. Fans shouldn't think we are an elite Club just because we look like one. Its the underlying machinery of any organisation that defines what it is. Our underlying machinery is still evolving but they are doing a decent job of fine tuning it for me. I would suggest that even Mr Wenger privately thinks that to scale the mountain wont be with him at the helm. In football club terms evolution is better than revolution for me. Our friends at SW6 and in the North West have embraced revolution and im not sure either Club has a stable destiny before them. They are all fur and no knickers, but im sure the fans are enjoying their ride while it lasts. I wouldn't want that. COYG

  86. DW Thomas

    Aug 15, 2014, 4:23 #55339

    Agree CT. You can't claim to be elite, charge the highest prices, and then deliver barely fourth! Remember Everton fell off when in a strong position and United were poor. Previous seasons, Chelsea pushed Spurs out of that 4th spot and West Broms' keeper was awful to gift us that 4th place again and we pipped Spurs by 1 point. That's not very convincing is it?? We are second in average attendance too! I welcome a great season, but just drop the bs. We as a club should be doing way better. Not one PL title in 10 years, not even close. Thats unthinkable considering the money we have and that we were the Invincibles. Was that just a purely lucky season, a perfect team never to be reproduced? Athletico and Dortmund proved you can achieve great things with proper tactics and players. But it takes a complete team and know how. Not whining, excuse making, and lightweight spoiled, overpaid brats. We have cleaned house mostly and improved out keeper. Now we must beat the better teams regularly and not get spanked when we lose. Last season's 3 and losses can never be repeated, for pride and to maintain belief and competitiveness.

  87. CT Gooner

    Aug 15, 2014, 3:25 #55338

    The question is what are we trying to compete for? If we aim for a top 4 finish, then no one else is coming in, Chambers was Vermalens replacement. But if we want to compete in Europe, against teams who won't park the bus, we're short a strong tackling defensive minded midfielder at bare minimum. I personally feel the most expensive ticket in England should get me a team that doesn't get spanked by the countries and continents ....

  88. DW Thomas

    Aug 15, 2014, 2:30 #55337

    Interpret this: “We’re very confident with the new deals we’ve got coming through, although we can’t talk about that in any detail. That’s showing really positive progression. We should be able to compete at a level like a club such as Bayern Munich. “I’m not saying we are there by any means, we have a way to go before we can put ourselves on that level. But this whole journey over the past ten years really has been with that goal in mind which is why I say that this is an extraordinarily ambitious club." That was last summer. So, those of you who say we never were meant or in the past tried to be like the big boys, the club itself has said that was its goal! No more bs please or rumblings about how to interpret statements. That bs reminds me of Wenger. Problem is it aint just the money. We need a tactically sound coach too. We have most of the tools, but its like the club is afraid of success, scared to go all out to achieve its goal because then expectations will be even higher! Speculate to accumulate. Simple concept. Can't take shortcuts to success. Again. It just gets ridiculous when our own fans start sounding like Wenger at his worst. Fans gullible to his arrogance can be shown the world is round, but still believe its flat.

  89. DW Thomas

    Aug 15, 2014, 1:58 #55336

    This season depends on two things. Has Wenger changed? And how will injuries go? Same old questions. All fans want us to do well, but it all depends on those 2things. I still feel we're missing a couple pieces of the puzzle, but no team is perfect. Can't wait for QPR. We must start with a win. Anything less is unacceptable. Beat the lesser teams, play strong against the big boys. And FFS, no more excuses!

  90. Th14afc

    Aug 15, 2014, 0:10 #55335

    Is it Saturday 5.30 yet....this week is draggin so much,need my arsenal fix

  91. Gunner be proud

    Aug 15, 2014, 0:01 #55334

    Yes, but as we should all know the actual meaning and context of the statement hinges on the definition of 'compete'does it not? If it means being in touching distance of the leading clubs frequently, then its an untruth. If it means being considered as a real barrier and hindrance to those Clubs fulfilling what they deem to be their natural destiny each season, then still perhaps fanciful. If it means repeated games and worthy challenges to those Clubs then Gazadis is quite close to being right (if he said it of course and ill bow to you on that one as i dont know). It then raises the issue of who the 'leading Clubs' are of course. We shall perhaps never be RM or Barcelona or even arguably Man Utd or BM, but we are close to many of what count as leading clubs i venture. Many if not most feel that the Club can do better and should be doing so, but its an evolutionary thing i feel.Change will have to and will occur certainly, but maybe the Club are not ready to embrace it yet. Much of the motivation for change comes from the gut and the Clubs gut says keep things as they are .. for now.

  92. Gazidis- 2012

    Aug 14, 2014, 23:41 #55333

    “In the next two years, we will have the financial resources to sit and compete among the leading clubs in the world, which is an extraordinary achievement". Not much for even stupid people to misunderstand there, and it's plainly obvious that we don't have the resources to compete with the top tier of clubs.

  93. Gunner be proud

    Aug 14, 2014, 23:14 #55332

    Some nice posts but alas by and large language is shown once more as a tool for concealing the truth. Some among us are guilty of its use. Moreover, of all the ways of defining man, the worst is one which makes him out to be a rational animal.Football isn't the forum for trying on the cloak of rationality gentlemen. COYG from whichever tier you emerge.

  94. Finsbury Joe

    Aug 14, 2014, 23:13 #55331

    Pleased to see what looks a strategic, if slightly fawning alliance between an Online Gooner author and Myles Palmer of ANR. Myles Palmer is a legend, a man who has a true handle on what goes on in the emirates corridors of power, he knows what wenger, kronke and Gazidis really stand for. Anyone who has not read Arsenal News Review, please do so and on a daily basis......unless reality hurts you too much

  95. Amos

    Aug 14, 2014, 22:58 #55330

    When have Arsenal ever presented themselves as anything other than Arsenal Football Club? They don't rank themselves as they don't have to - plenty of others will do that for them. Uefa will seed them based on performances in Europe compared to others. Forbes will rank them on their value as a business and supporters will do so based on their prejudices. The leagues will rank them based on league performances. Football historians will rank them based on their tradition, record, achievements, innovation, impact on the game, consistency et c. For the most part Arsenal have only ever explained what their objectives short, medium and long term are. Look at the transcript of any Q&A session with the executives of the club, CEO and manager included, see what is said in context, and Arsenal have usually been pretty realistic about managing expectations. Supporters for the most part will take the headlines and sound bite quotes only and decide that the club are being unrealistic whereas its the opposite. Just as one example you'll sometimes hear some supporters claim that Gazidis has said we're able to compete on the same level as Bayern while what he really said was "We should be able to compete at a level like a club such as Bayern Munich. I'm not saying we are there by any means, we have a way to go before we can put ourselves on that level." There isn't a lack of realism or ambition at the club - just a lack of effort on behalf of some supporters to properly understand what is being said and to put their own expectations into context. Whether any one here puts Arsenal in the top tier or not wouldn't keep anyone at the club awake at night. As long as they have the power and resources to attract the best players and club executives they can let others play those games.

  96. Sambo

    Aug 14, 2014, 22:50 #55329

    The wob's are so blood-y boring the way they all think they have this ability in predicting exactly what is going to happen.They spend all day debating this and debating that,which is followed by all coming to the same spoon fed conclusions which never manifests into any truth and changes week by week.Sadly they miss the true joy and simplicity of supporting a great football club.Fools the lot of them.

  97. Bard

    Aug 14, 2014, 21:32 #55328

    Baddie; I get all that but there is a gaping hole between the Arsenals pr and the reality. They are selling a pup. They are trying to convince the fans that they are in the top tier while acting and performing like a second tier club and thats the rub. What surprise me Baddie is that you post as a man of principle and yet you support such an unprincipled position. If Arsenal presented themselves as a second tier club battling with the elite I could get behind it but they don't and Wenger will be in full battle cry once they beat Palace on Saturday.

  98. BADARSE

    Aug 14, 2014, 20:27 #55327

    Evening Bard. OK, so we agree that we are not in that very small and exclusive club that you refer to as the elite. I think I said enough in my post to signify that. Once more we are talking of fine nuances. Second tier? Well OK but that really makes the first tier extremely small, two rich clubs in England, plus another three (?), rich clubs in Europe. The Atletico achievement was fantastic, but hardly qualifies as a sound argument. Any good club can over-achieve on rare occasions, but the insurmountable evidence suggests they cannot maintain it, and that should come as no surprise. Smallish, but very well-assembled teams have triumphed in England on rare occasions, Ipswich, the Sours, Burnley way back in the league, Pompey, Millwall, Southampton and WHU in the Cup. Remember, a cat can look at a king. If we agree that AFC are in the second tier then we certainly disagree on the term, firmly entrenched. We were seven points off winning the Double last year-not a very deep trench, certainly not the Mariana Trench variety. Shall remain there! What, for perpetuity? I think not. This game we call life has many distractions, one being football, and for us AFC. I couldn't even guess what the next decade may bring, so eternity doesn't figure for me. The crux of all this is our personal view of how our ambition as a club is shown, all the rest is just our perspectives. Half way up a mountain, or half way down. I think we are showing enormous ambition as a club, for a variety of reasons-you don't because we don't spend enough on new players. It's really that simple, and in itself it shouldn't be enough to go to war over. Some on here should pay heed to that.

  99. Bard

    Aug 14, 2014, 19:01 #55326

    Baddie; We're in is 4th a trophy territory? its isn't, coming 3/4th is good but you're not in the elite. The elite are those clubs that aim to reach the finals of the CL or win it and/or win their league. Before we throw the money argument in Atletico won the spanish league last year. How did they do that? I have argued that Arsenal are firmly entrenched in the second tier and will remain there. Is it failure ? No. But the question is should we be aiming higher? LVG won't be long at Man U if all he can produce is 3/4th place finishes thats for sure.

  100. BADARSE

    Aug 14, 2014, 17:40 #55325

    Ha ha, you kill me 24601. Ever the numbers-oh, that's what I call you. Staggering pronouncement though. 'Home grown talent, my arse!', as Jim Royle would say.

  101. Westlower

    Aug 14, 2014, 17:34 #55324

    Sobering thought that Real Madrid's starting eleven against Sevilla in the Super Cup cost approximately the same as the Emirate stadium project.

  102. BADARSE

    Aug 14, 2014, 16:25 #55323

    Ha ha AL, keep the hunger buddy. I am always wanting more, I just temper my desires with my view of reality. I am very hungry for success this season and have reasonably high expectations of seeing it. These are incredible times for AFC and it's a constant disappointment to me that many miss them by focussing on something far off that could be a mirage. Grasp what we have and endeavour to grab a little more along the way. Oh, and there is nothing wrong with flashing a Tastecard at the end of he meal, just to redress the balance. 'Waiter, can I have extra chips with that, please?'

  103. AL

    Aug 14, 2014, 16:13 #55322

    BADARSE, hear what you're saying, but when you get a bill at the end of the meal for 200 quid and you've been served a 5 course meal that looks good but wouldn't fill a fill a mouse, are you not still hungry?

  104. Welland

    Aug 14, 2014, 16:12 #55321

    AL have faith. With Ramsey and Wilshire fit we won't need a defensive midfielder. I'd like to see a experienced centre back come in as we are short on cover there. Any ideas? A younger Sol Campbell would be nice!

  105. BADARSE

    Aug 14, 2014, 16:05 #55320

    Bard, I thought I detected a nimbus glowing around you-'has he seen the light?' was a question on my lips, then you dashed my hopes. The post all made sense until you suggested that you had to downgrade expectations to understand it all. No chum, keep trying and you'll get it, honestly. No one I know shall be downgrading their expectations, or are these maguiresbridge's mates? You know, all these invisible fans supporting Arsene FC. I also think you need to reassess your perspective. AFC don't dine at the top table now-yet you anticipate a 3rd/4th finish-and these positions we have made our own over the last decade. So given that everybody and their Dads recognise, after weeks of hammering the point on this website, that it's virtually impossible to compete with the money clubs MC and CFC, a creditable 3rd place isn't at the top table? Constantly qualifying for the CL year on year, winning the FA Cup and Community Shield, arguably the biggest fan base in the world, respect coming from all over the globe, for the club, manager and style of football we play, yet are not at the top table? Why is the table so small? Just those money-grubbers aforementioned who dine there in England? I think we do my friend, and I think we are the gourmets of International cuisine.

  106. Westlower

    Aug 14, 2014, 15:59 #55319

    Bard makes a good point that we only need a DM in about 20% of our games in PL. Most teams park the bus against us and the DM role is largely redundant. Cannot see AFC paying £20m+ for a player who isn't needed for 80% of the season. When needed we'll make do with Flamini, Coquelin, Chambers & Diaby. Good news that Kos looks likely to be available for Saturday & Diaby is back in training. Also reported today that Eden Hazard opined that Gervinho was the most talented player he played with in France.

  107. Sam

    Aug 14, 2014, 15:50 #55318

    agree with a lot of what you say. We shipped 21 goals in away games against those above us. A lot of it was by being overrun in midfield and leaving the back 4 (3 often, with Gibbs AWOL) exposed. Read a great piece last season by Chiellini of Juventus, who said any back 4 are only as good as the midfield defenders in front of them. Wenger thinks Arteta, Flamini, possibly Jack (who I really don't rate) and young Chambers will somehow 'fill in'. Plus of course, There Is Diaby. For 2 mins anyhow.

  108. Betfred

    Aug 14, 2014, 15:48 #55317

    Thanks for that Westie

  109. Bard

    Aug 14, 2014, 15:44 #55316

    Tony Evans; good post but I doubt we'll buy a DM. Others have made the point that he has to let players go before he can to get some in. I believe he thinks he can muddle through that position with Arteta, Flamini and maybe Chambers That position only becomes critical against the big teams, its moreorless redundant when we play the lesser sides who sit back. City and Chelsea are favourites for one and two, that leaves us fighting with Man U and Liverpool for 3/4th spot and we aint going to win the CL. I would suggest he fancies his chances of 3/4th with the squad he has got plus another CB if one becomes available. I reckon if you downgrade your expectations it all begins to make sense. Rachel and others frustration is because they, rightly to my mind, believe this is what you need to really compete forgetting that Arsenal don't compete at the top table anymore despite what the club say.

  110. Westlower

    Aug 14, 2014, 15:40 #55315

    Bad news for all of you who wish Wenger to leave AFC, he is the longest price at 100/1 to be the next manager to leave his post. Best bets of this season are AFC at 15/8 to finish top without Man C & CFC; AFC 4/5 to finish above Man U; AFC 1/2 to finish above Liverpool; AFC 1/5 to finish above Sours. Giroud top AFC scorer at 7/4. @Jeff, Youcouldntmakeitup won on debut at Beverley today at 14/1, hope you were on?

  111. AL

    Aug 14, 2014, 15:37 #55314

    Fred, not sure where you're coming from with all the Lol's. Lol

  112. Fred

    Aug 14, 2014, 15:03 #55313

    hahaha ....lol@AL ... once he was duped because no big signings a year ... now hes duped because only one big signing a year .... he will still be duped if only 2 big signings a year ... lol @ keep the fans happy ... most are ... wobs and amgs wont ever be ... rofl

  113. AL

    Aug 14, 2014, 14:56 #55312

    Tired of seeing players come out in the press with "we've got the squad to win it this year" ok that was my quote but sums up the rest. If we do not sign a strong defensive midfielder chelski, citeh and the scouse will walk through us again. I'm hoping we sign a Carvalho type but I fear we'll sign no one and have been duped into one big signing per year... Keep the fans happy and paper over the Grand Canyon of cracks that when we're on the back foot, it's men against boys... Please please please not another season of glaring gaps and Diaby is like a new signing!

  114. Fred

    Aug 14, 2014, 14:35 #55311

    hahaha .... lol@bards example of thoughtful analysis ... fourth was a trophy would have resonated with united last season ... spurs ... everton ... liverpool most seasons ... most premier league teams every season ... just isnt what wenger said though ... food for thought worth analysing ... lol

  115. Fred

    Aug 14, 2014, 13:56 #55310

    hahaha .... lol@amg ... i said he didnt stand a chance of understanding the difference ... context never a strong point for wobs and amgs ... lol louder for failing to know whether diaby ever had a good day ... not difficult if you are a supporter .... impossible if just a follower .... they never remember the good times ... lol@amg for ignoring .... its where ignorance comes from ! ... lmao ... i hope you dont enjoy the season amg ! ... knowing you will only enjoy it if it don't go well for the arsenal .... lol ...

  116. BADARSE

    Aug 14, 2014, 13:47 #55309

    You are probably correct OMG/AMG, perhaps no one else said 'Fourth was a trophy', but they sure as heck think it, and would certainly endorse it. Sadly in today's world some quotes become twisted, taken out of context, or just plain manipulated. A phrase is used to distil an essence for the listener/reader to absorb. The phrase certainly resonated with me, but I would never be so pedantic as to nail a man up for an illuminating message, that's daft. The 'trophy' description means achievement or target in this instance, surely? I played in a 6-a-side competition once and we were desperately unlucky to finish third, but won a medal for our efforts, it would have been a little churlish of me to begrudge the losers in our play-off final a fourth place medal, (which they never got). I'm of the opinion that all Olympians should win an Olympic medal for representing their country, they could have finite endorsements engraved, ie 'Fourth', 'Ist Qualifying Round', or whatever, these would be alongside the usual three medals-and I'm not interested in the Olympics.

  117. AMG

    Aug 14, 2014, 13:43 #55308

    Oh Fred, you're so right, he said it was LIKE a trophy rather than it was a trophy, this distinction is so huge, I must now hang my head in shame! - Grow up lad! You said how Yaya played on Sunday was worse than Diaby on a good day - Full marks to you if you can remember Diaby on a good day, I must I'm forgetting what the guy looks like. I don't know why I'm bothering engaging with you, I should take a leaf out of Bards troll-ignoring book. Enjoy the season!

  118. Fred

    Aug 14, 2014, 13:31 #55307

    hahaha ... lol@amg as he cant understand what was said about diaby.... compared to what was claimed .... pretty standard ignorance for an amg ... lol@amg failing to check the fact that Wenger said finishing in the top four is like a trophy ... not 4th place is a trophy ... rofl@amg for standing no chance of understanding the difference ... lol

  119. AMG

    Aug 14, 2014, 13:22 #55306

    Lol at Fred if he can compare that perma-crock Diaby with the most effective and most consistent PL midfielder of the last few seasons. Yaya scored 20 goals last season, many of them belters, when was the last time Diaby appeared 20 times in the same season? Where was Diaby on Sunday when Yaya was having an off day? I don't know what you're smoking pal, but it must be pretty good for you to lol like a teenage girl quite as much as seem to. Good posts as usual Bard. Wenger is the only manager to have ever claimed that 4th place is a trophy, check your facts Freddie!

  120. Fred's Mum

    Aug 14, 2014, 13:10 #55304

    @JW That's a bit harsh on Fred, isn't it? Alright he's no angel, but he's got a heart of gold.

  121. Chris - Nottingham

    Aug 14, 2014, 13:07 #55303

    I agree but Wenger won't Unfortunately Arteta is yesterday's man but Wenger has made him captain, with Ramsey a shoe in where does he fit a marquee DM in the team. Wenger has shot himself in the foot again. He treated Gilberto shabbily. Vieira & Gilberto - dreamteam centre midfield

  122. JW

    Aug 14, 2014, 12:51 #55302

    Utter drivel.

  123. Fred

    Aug 14, 2014, 12:21 #55301

    hahaha ... lol@bard saying he wont address my posts ... and then adressing them!! ... lol@bard sniping and sneering at posts because he dont like sniping and sneering ...lol ... 4th place isnt as good as it gets but 3rd place is as good as its got recently ... 4th place is only as good as its been ... for the last couple of seasons .... not as good as it gets .... you wont know how good it gets until weve got it ... lol@peterwain .... if all Mertesacker has to do is stand there and head long balls away he will be fit enough ...lol ...

  124. Peter Wain

    Aug 14, 2014, 11:36 #55300

    Seems like Mertersacker has to play on Saturday as Koscielny is crocked.I cannot understand why we have not bought a CB it makes not sense. I would not be surprised if we lose on Saturday as Mert cannot be fit and Palace will be peppering us with long balls. Wenger must go his transfer ditherings are costing us dear.

  125. Bard

    Aug 14, 2014, 9:38 #55299

    Sambo; its stating the bleeding obvious to say that 4th is hard. But it should read its harder than it was. As long as we're now clear that 4th is as good as it gets then we are in agreement and we won't hear any cobblers on here about winning anything meaningful like the PL. Fred despite being amused by your adolescent posts Im not bothering to address them because you never venture any thoughtful analysis of your own. You just snipe and make stupid remarks. its easy to hide behind that sort of post. Take a leaf out of your kindred spirit Pete's book, who at least gives some analysis of his own position

  126. Ian

    Aug 14, 2014, 9:33 #55298

    Totally agree!!

  127. Tony Evans

    Aug 14, 2014, 9:32 #55297

    So we go in to the first game of the season still without the midfield powerhouse we have needed for years, and with Arteta given the captaincy it's not going to happen is it. Please don't anyone tell me that either Wilshire or the great disappearing man, Diaby, is the answer! Also what other manager would start the season with two full backs in central defence because that is what we are looking at tomorrow. Yes we will be great going forward but defensively we will have more holes than a Swiss cheese as per usual under the defensively clueless Wenger.

  128. Horsham Gooner

    Aug 14, 2014, 9:20 #55296

    I'm disappointed but not surprised that another AMG has been selective in her research. Arsene Wenger was quoted the other day; "Why do I need Khedira when I've got Jack Wilshere?" I feel certain Rachael would have condemned Wenger if he had signed Khedira, who then failled to adapt to the Premier League, and wondered why Wilshere, a home-grown player had been overlooked.

  129. Sambo

    Aug 14, 2014, 9:03 #55295

    Fred's right when he says aiming for fourth is hard in itself. Do people honestly think Wenger sits down with Gazidas and Kronke and work out how they can finish exactly fourth. If he did that he would be even more a genius than we give him credit for.In fact Wenger is the only top manager who hasn't said he's aiming for fourth,like Mourinho,Rodgers,Pellegrini and Van Gaal.Too many on here oh so willing to churn up the same old lazy ring talk.

  130. Fred

    Aug 14, 2014, 8:47 #55294

    hahaha ... lol@bard ... claims there are fair points in rachaels article but cant say what they are .... lol ... he can say that arsenal are only aiming for fourth spot though! ... but not bright enough to see aiming for and getting fourth is as hard as aiming for any specific league position ... lol ... of course arsenal are always aiming to finish in the top four .... they have to .... thats where first place is ... lol .... bard is as deluded as any supporter who believes 3 legged horses enter races ... they are shot down ... like wobs and amgs ... lol ...

  131. BADARSE

    Aug 14, 2014, 7:59 #55293

    Good morning my leafy sticks of rhubarb, leaves can be poisonous, but stalks divine when cooked-what a symbiosis! Just like AFC fans? As a speculative forecast it's a good bet we shall do well on the opening day. All pointers are showing well. Everything in recent weeks has lead to a positive approach, from winning both Wembley games, three German WC winners adding a feel good factor to the training ground, new additions-and already settled, stability from the manager's new contract, change of skipper, going into a season with the monkey off our backs by securing a trophy, and memories of the opening day slip-up last term probably galvanising the squad. With all that Pulis will not so much be parking the bus as setting up the barricades. A good result against us and his team could run off the fumes of that success for a month. His task will be far more simplistic than AW's-stop us winning in any way, (even a defeat in well-achieved circumstances would work for him). That win achieved and it would also set us up, and the quick succession of following matches would perhaps become less troubling. I do sense a continuation of improvement throughout the club, this feeling is abstract and vague but it is there for me. Nothing like whistling in the dark, I've done that, nothing like flying on a wing and a prayer, done that too, just an innate sense that we have gone another rung up that ladder. Feelings, eh? Good old sticks of rhubarb, good old Arsenal.

  132. Bard

    Aug 14, 2014, 7:55 #55292

    Well done Rachel. I don't agree with your premise but there are some fair points in your post. However your article only makes sense if you buy into the claptrap peeled by the club that we are going head to head with the big sides for titles This is the mistake that you and others here make. They aren't. Top 4 remains the goal. If you accept that then the transfer policy makes sense. Try and stay competitive, balance the books, keep the faithful onside, fill the stadium, hope we get lucky in one of the competitions. Its depressing and frustrating in many respects but thats the way it. I wouldn't take too much notice of the 'anti' posts on here. They are the sorted of fans who still deludedly believe that a three legged horse can still win races.

  133. Mathew

    Aug 14, 2014, 5:24 #55291

    Another article with the same old story and Wenger's economics win. He is happy with the 4th place and the Board seems to agree with that too. If we ever had a member in the Board, who wanted to run a club competing for silverware, Wenger should've gone this year. Agreed that he works out Champions league places with average players and no superstars year after year, but none will admit that he loses the plot year after year with better managers and teams. Money cant buy everything but this is competitive football and sentiments/ history shouldn't be allowed to control the club.

  134. WENGER HAS GOT A LONG WAY TO GO TO CONVINCE ME (MARCUS)

    Aug 14, 2014, 0:06 #55290

    SPEND SPEND SPEND/WE'LL BE LUCKY TO FINISH SEVENTH/WENGERS A BUSTED FLUSH.AMG'S ARE GREAT/AKB'S ARE RUBBISH/I'VE THROWN AWAY MY SEASON TICKET/LUCKY TO FINISH ABOVE THE SPUDS/MY OLD MAN'S A MUSHROOM/GREAT POSTS JEFF,MAGUIREBRIDGE,BARD/RUBBISH POSTS BADARSE,ALEX,DOMINIC,SAMBO/SPEND SOME MONEY/WORLD CLASS DM OR WE FINISH 8TH/GET OUT YOUR FLAGS AND PROTEST/GIVE ME TROPHIES NOT EXCUSES.

  135. Roy

    Aug 13, 2014, 23:03 #55289

    Of course you are right - if nothing else happens, it's the usual scrap for 4th place. Good to see Manure in the draw for the second round of the league cup, though.

  136. Fred

    Aug 13, 2014, 22:44 #55288

    hahaha ...lol@maguiresbridge ... we will never see the day diaby is as good as yaya toure ... yeah right! ... how good was yaya toure on sunday? .... answer ... not as good as diaby on a good day ... lol

  137. allybear

    Aug 13, 2014, 22:40 #55287

    Good article Rachael and a lot of truth in it. However Khedira isnt the answer and anyway OGL reckons that Arsenal will be even more attack minded and will steamroll teams but possibly a hiccup when meeting his blind spot Man U!

  138. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 13, 2014, 21:57 #55286

    forcemassmotion, good post i thought you blue it with diaby could be as good on his day as yaya toure i nearly spilled my beer with that one we'll never see that day mate, but you got back on track again very quickly.

  139. Lee afc

    Aug 13, 2014, 21:48 #55285

    Sorry Rachel. You pointed out that wenger has not addressed the frailties that are obvious to us being champions elect.....world class striker, second goalie, top class centre half and right back. Ticked all the boxes. Best midfield in the land. Come on, give us some credit..."judge me in May"

  140. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 13, 2014, 21:00 #55284

    kilkenny cat, shore isn't it great i'm allowed to agree with you.

  141. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 13, 2014, 19:54 #55283

    Lance peters, i don't doubt it, probably banned too, thats what happens if you don't support and agree with them thankfully that's not the case on here as everybody is entitled to their opinion even those that don't like it, and those that have nothing to say and drive regulars away.

  142. Realist

    Aug 13, 2014, 19:53 #55282

    Hello??!! Unless I'm mistaken the season starts in 3 days time not 1st September! Chelsea and City are sorted, why aren't we? Again! Can't use money as an excuse any more. No experienced cover at centre-back, no decent defensive midfielder, no quality centre-forward and how much has really been spent with the Vela, Vermaelen and Djourou money coming in added to the 11 players contracts not renewed? The only thing that's changed is that we won a trophy that AKBs wanted us knocked out of in January!

  143. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 13, 2014, 19:24 #55281

    Jimmy, you could be closer than you think.

  144. BADARSE

    Aug 13, 2014, 18:53 #55280

    Good evening Sambo, good to connect. I do share a few things with Bard, and understand his reservations regarding your moniker. I shall anoint you Sambeau, ha ha. Anyway chum, it is a form of practise to encourage a belief-I don't do beliefs-so it is to be treated suspiciously. If they can create a striking image it often lingers longer in people's minds than the actual point they want to make, (usually the point is vacuous anyway). So any post littered with, 'there are all these people running around in ever-decreasing circles praising Arsene Wenger,' can be accepted at face value and it strengthens the argument. These, 'daft Arsene supporters', are figments of their collective imaginations. It is quite funny really. I can imagine a group of them extolling the virtues of each other's views, all like those nodding dogs, and then they would begin to character-assassinate those imaginary AKB'S. Quite amusing as I think they have labelled me as one, yet I know no other. I've often chosen to be in a group of one in my life, but this is silly. By the way on my way to the forum, (any old-timers remember that phrase?), I met a very large group of WOB's tearing their hair, rending their clothes, and pledging absolute allegiance to the cause, that indeed Arsene does know best. They were begging forgiveness from passing strangers, and promising to cleanse themselves, hopeful that the real Gooners would absolve them from their past sins. A few fell over or bumped into lampposts so keen were they on scourging themselves as they ran past me.They were all wearing sunglasses as now at long last they have seen the light. Not really!

  145. dr nutmeg

    Aug 13, 2014, 18:38 #55279

    Bang on Rachael. It would seem that Wenger is upto his usual tricks.

  146. N4

    Aug 13, 2014, 18:23 #55278

    The truth hurts!

  147. Sambo

    Aug 13, 2014, 17:00 #55277

    Who are all these Arsenal fans who are constantly saying this is our year?.Do you know any BADARSE,Westie,Amos,Fred because I certainly don't. Talk Sport and most of the Wenger Out's on here are always going on about these fans,yet I know loads of happy for Wenger to stay Arsenal fans and I've never heard anybody say we're going to do this and that.Why is it that if you don't have a beef with the manager then you're an AKB who's deluded with no ambition, can you not just be a fan who see's the bigger picture.Why are all the Wenger Out sheep so convinced by the medias latest DM scaremonger stories?It's like if we don't get a world class DM we're doomed...

  148. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 13, 2014, 16:13 #55276

    Your not being a doom and gloom monger a all Rachael although no doubt you'll be accused of it, it's called realism. How many times have we heard this is our season, this is our year only for another false dawn and one trophy in nine years suddenly doesn't make it any different, and here we are again and it's even louder this season and even more soiling of the jockeys and calvin kleins because of a friendly win at Wembley. Yes maybe if OGL would have actually given fans more to be optimistic about over the last nine years instead of the same old, humiliations and embarrassments, etc we'd be more optimistic now and not expecting the same old and agreeing with and supporting other posters who think the same. Maybe after all this time the old dog is going to learn new tricks and that's what he's going to do this season (and we can all come on and agree with each other) until that happens there'll be no bowing to OGL yet, but I don't expect to be purchasing knee patches anytime soon. Good Article.

  149. Dan

    Aug 13, 2014, 15:52 #55275

    haha your comment regarding Debuchy. You do know he is selected ahead of Sagna for France? In that case, we've strengthened that position surely?

  150. Gunner be proud

    Aug 13, 2014, 14:45 #55274

    the vitriol towards Racheal seems as wrong as the stoic defences of A wenger in the face of what shes said. For what its worth i often wonder these days that even if given the players of 10 years ago still at a peak whether Arsene would manage the team to the same outcomes.I like AW as my teams coach but see his tactics these days exposed so often by the superior teams. Most teams who visit us have a negative approach and it helps so much to get good results in the main. The best teams are not so respectful and have the players and systems to expose the flaws in our team. Not often but when it happens its brutal.On our travels we cant stifle games as we lack that type of player so we fall prey to a buoyed up home team at times. Frankly too much time wasted on this site it appears to me talking about spending. Its systems and tactics that has in the main stopped us winning trophies perhaps? I feel that the Club needs a new approach, perhaps with Arsene or more likely without him, a new backroom? A future without le boss is not a nice thought but it will come. ive been a reader of this site for a few weeks only and do feel that the for or against him positions are a bit overstated and unhelpful. If we can get a 5 pc improvement in the showing of the players we have though, we might surprise a few. Thats real coaching. it isnt just spending. If it was Spurs might have 13 titles.

  151. forcemassmotion - croston

    Aug 13, 2014, 13:44 #55271

    The author has some valid points about the prospects of the team for the season. Fundamental to any successful side is the spine, and you only have to look at the great sides - past and present - to know that those that eventually win the league will invariably have strength in the vital middle areas. Looking at the current personnel Flamini offers a notable defensive shield for the back four, and Daiaby, on his day, can have the same type of effect that Toure has for Man City. Then of course there is Wilshire and the ever improving Ramsey who are part of the equation but, perhaps, not part of the solution? Key to any teams prospects will be the ability to last the course. In recent seasons the gunner's have started well and sustained a consistent level of performance until the final third, where, frustratingly, the the fuel empties from the tank. This is where the team needs the gladiators, the Viera's, the Keane's, Ince etc. Looking around the squad the question we need to be asking is do we have that type of player? And do we have enough quality players on the fringes that can compensate for any perceived lack of spine? I always thought Frimpong had the potential to fill the void in terms of tenacity and the strength needed to intimidate opposing teams, but alas, he's now up't nooorth with the sheep fanciers. And the trophy with the golden lions will probably stay in the land of the flat cap and whippets, although Chelsea will go very, very close.

  152. AMG

    Aug 13, 2014, 13:30 #55269

    I share your reservations, but I don't think that a DM will turn us into a Championship winning team. If we were to sign a lethal striker, a solid CB and a DM then I would think we would have a real chance to compete right to the end. There still comes the problem of left-back, which is by far our weakest on field position. The biggest obstacle though is the lack of a decent tactician putting the team to work - Even with Barcelona's squad, our team would be outthought and outfought against the big boys, the likes of Tony Pulis and Martinez. Let's not forget that our manager is the same one who makes pre-planned substitutions which surprise no one and rarely have an effect on the game other than to invoke Alamo style defence-attack. All in all, I expect an improvement on last season, but much the same end result - 4th place!

  153. CT Gooner

    Aug 13, 2014, 13:25 #55268

    Westie, you didn't just say Wenger got to the top of the league did you?? I know for a fact that you know that's BS. Or are you being pedantic by using the word "premiership"? Let's go easy on Rachael, she's only saying the same thing many have thought or voiced since Patrick left! What was that, 8 years back....

  154. Spaced

    Aug 13, 2014, 13:10 #55267

    It does bug me when people refer to Wenger's salary as if he is extortionately paid and is not worth it. If you translate that £7.5m to weekly, it is £148,000, which is about the same as one of our top players... so who is worth more? Otherwise, I thought the article is ridiculously negative at this stage. But you know what... I think the manager knows more than you or I or the others (bombshell!).

  155. Tony Evans

    Aug 13, 2014, 12:53 #55266

    Rachael - you are quite right in what you are saying and I have given up on trying to make any sense of Wenger's determination not to buy the top quality ball winner we have needed since Viera left. Couple this with the fact that central defence is another Wenger blind spot and it all adds up to complete frustration. As you say we will be great going forward but will have the usual soft underbelly that will let us down in the big games, and I fear we will never quite be the full package until Wenger leaves.

  156. West Upper

    Aug 13, 2014, 12:53 #55265

    Iain is spot on. We can buy everyone mentioned, but if we continue to be tactically naive against the big teams and pile forward chasing the ball like an Under 10's game and leaving ourselves with gaping holes at the back, we'll continue to get good thumpings by the best teams

  157. Pilatesfonteyn

    Aug 13, 2014, 12:46 #55264

    Fab article good to read home truths!!

  158. Fivetothree

    Aug 13, 2014, 12:31 #55263

    This article should have been published on 1st September, not before. Who is to know that these deals are not being worked on now? Give the club the chance to finish their business and then comment.

  159. Westlower

    Aug 13, 2014, 12:04 #55262

    Is Arsene Wenger, described by some on today's posts as a fool & scumbag for not keeping us at the top of the PL, the same man who got us to the top in the first place?

  160. jw

    Aug 13, 2014, 11:59 #55261

    So you say we are crying out for a defensive midfielder and then offer up Khedira as the solution? A guy who is certainly not a defensive midfielder? Meh, pointless whiney article. And author, you say for Wenger to consider he is wrong, I say to you, consider YOU are wrong.

  161. Amos

    Aug 13, 2014, 11:22 #55260

    I'm guessing that the reason such articles appear before the transfer window closes Unchives, is because everything that takes place after the 15th August (conventionally when most transfers take place) will now give rise to articles about Arsenal's panic buying !

  162. BADARSE

    Aug 13, 2014, 10:59 #55259

    Bellerin the Flyer, wow! Interesting bit of info 24601. Think in general terms again we are in agreement buddy. We shall see though. Images of you and I, dummies in our mouths, hurling our rattles from the prams makes for an interesting picture. Reckon we'd soon be distracted by who had the best shot, and what we could hit with them. Fred in true raucous style you have hit the nail on the head-please make sure it is just nails though, ha ha. Black Hei glides in under cover of darkness, posts an illuminating light and disappears into the ether. Liked the positive criticism of this article, Jimmy you made me laugh, thanks.

  163. Ozzie

    Aug 13, 2014, 10:49 #55258

    People keep harping about Arsenal's hidings last year but no mention of the fact Arsenal couldn't beat a struggling Man Utd - seem to suffer from stage fright facing them. Nobody has mentioned the five lost points there. Time Arsenal stopped talking up & looking up to other sides & see them as just 11 men. Keep it simple. How much energy is wasted on all the psychological crap?

  164. kilkenny cat

    Aug 13, 2014, 10:48 #55257

    To challenge for the prem and the cl,we need a big pacy centre midfielder who can run the game the way Vieira did. We also need a top class finisher. Giroud is not good enough at the highest level,the others are raw even though they are more mobile than Giroud,which isnt hard. Without these,it will be 4th again and out of cl in last 16. Effectively the only addition is Sanchez.The rest are like for like. Living in hope more than expectation.

  165. Unchives

    Aug 13, 2014, 10:46 #55256

    I don't understand why these articles are released before the transfer window is closed. Arsene has already stated that if Vermaelen leaves, he would sign another centre-back. We are over-loaded in midfield, as already mentioned here, players would have to leave before we strengthened in midfield with a different type of Midfield player.Why Wenger could not have converted Vermaelen for this position is a mystery.I don't know why some fans dismissed the victory against that Citeh team as being some kind of makeshift, substandard B team, their whole squad are full of multi million pound superstars! As for another striker, who would we buy, for how much and do we guarantee him first team football? As for Sagna, he couldn't even make the French team in the World Cup.

  166. Dominic

    Aug 13, 2014, 10:30 #55255

    So having given us the benefit of your knowledge and experience of managing football teams, please tell us how many trophies you have won.

  167. lance peters

    Aug 13, 2014, 10:30 #55254

    halelujah. at last someone who shares my thoughts. i have been slated on other websites for these same comments. with the current squad we will be competing for 4th again. and the saddest thing is that our weak link in the side has just been named captain by the 7.5m scumbag.

  168. Black Hei

    Aug 13, 2014, 9:48 #55253

    Roughly translated as: If Wenger doesn't listen to me, I will get very angry and rant non-stop on tweeter and blogs. If Wenger obeys and listens to my advice/orders, I will reward him with little sweet nothings till the far end of the cyber sphere. Not forgetting that if we do win anything, it will be because of my sagely advice and nothing to do with the manager who is obviously overpaid by 7.5M since I can do the job and I am paid an insignificant sum next to that 7.5M bucks.

  169. Fred

    Aug 13, 2014, 9:17 #55252

    hahaha ... lol@arsenal-steve .... its some supporters who need psychological help ... we begged wenger to buy a striker ... any striker ... if wenger had just gone to the box marked striker we would have won the league ... yeah right!! ..its that simple sitting in your armchair ... lol@rachael ... doesnt even know what a dms are ... but whatever they are all we have to do is buy one and we will win the league .... yeah right! ... like its really that simple ... what reason do i have for offering my prediction of doom and gloom? ... asks rachael ... cos you are just another deluded supporter thinking their football opinion is superior to anyone earning a living from football ... but mostly cos for you the world is a bit frightening ... lol

  170. GoonerSquaddie

    Aug 13, 2014, 9:07 #55251

    I agree. With everything. I think as Arsenal fans, considering how many times we have been here before, should know better than to get carried away with all this premature paper hype and excitement. Whilst I believe we DO look like an improved team, to that of last season, we must note the teams that beat us last year namely Chelsea have also improved. They've made the right signings and have addressed very quickly the positions that needed filling. Last season they were clearly missing an all out striker- so they purchased the proven and prolific Costa who led athletico to their first title in decades. They lost one of their most established and inspirational midfielders Lampard last season- replaced immediately by one of our our own, cesc, who was inspirational for us as a creative midfielder. Fair to say, mourinho keeps it simple. For some odd reason, despite years of fans crying out for a defensive midfielder and a CB, he's again opted for a small nimble-footed creative midfielder (I've lost count of how many of these we have now). I think we will do well but may just fall short when it matters.. However I think we will see some improved displays against the bigger teams

  171. arsenal-steve

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:58 #55250

    You are absolutely right. A lot of people have forgot how last summer we begged Wenger to buy another striker. We all were shocked as the team raced to the top. In January there was the biggest push from the Supporters, Pundits and Press ever "buy another striker Wenger" we all clamoured. The rest is history. We signed Kim Kallestrom??? We collapsed and fell away. Last season, including internationals Olivier Giroud played 61 games. So put all of that together and it shows Wenger to be a rather arrogant self-destructive man. He seems to crave creating a "nearly" team, but not finish the job. So without a sitting DM like William Carvalho or a tough goalscoring CB like Fabian Schar we will fail at last hurdle. At this club it's not the players who need to see the sports psychologist......it's Wenger

  172. Thomas Redburn

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:54 #55249

    I completely agree with this and those of you making comments who don't like it, well... You're as blind as Wenger!

  173. Westlower

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:53 #55248

    Oh dear Rachel, so much anxiety, so little optimism. Players we don't have are so much better than the ones we do have. Players who've left are so much better than the new arrivals? Signing two more midfielders simply wont happen as we're overloaded with them. As things stand we have our full compliment of 25 players + U21 players. Players have to leave before anyone else can arrive. Forget all about Khedira, as RM say he is not for sale. He is not a DM anyway and would only replace one of Ramsey, Ox or JW as a box to box midfielder. Carvalho is ridiculously overpriced for what he's achieved so far. Spending a season on loan at Brugge doesn't necessarily mean he's any better than we already have. He's just another 'next Pat Vieiri' when we know they'll only ever be one. What we do need is cover at CB & if any new signings are to be made that's probably where it will be. Chambers will get games between playing DM & CB & I believe he's one for here and now rather than the future. He's 20 years old in January, so he's old enough to strut his stuff. You only gain experience & improve by playing. Tony Adams was much younger when he was our CB. Good to read Bellerin has broken Theo's 40m sprint time. Who's that flying down the wing? Why it's Roadrunner Hector Bellerin!

  174. Ibrahim kayode lateef

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:52 #55247

    I need semir khedira . Arsenal you are try but i need premiers league and champions league

  175. iain

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:46 #55246

    what wibble. Mate, feel your frustration but basically your position seems to be 'unless arsenal buy a strong DM, wenger is a loser and its all dooom doom dooooooooooooooom!' We do need a strong DM, on that I would agree but Khedira is an attacking box to box midfielder a la Wilshere, not the defensive lynchpin you laud. Carvalho is what we need but young and at £37m a waste of money- if Wenger can get him at the suggeted £20ish m then alls good. One player however will not stop the whole side crumbling to 'superior' opponents. Its more the strategy that needs to change. Our strategy is put on boots, go on pitch, play attacking footie. When strong teams set up to come out the box like a cheetah then perhaps we should take 10 mins to hold, build into the game and use our new found pace to counter attack until we can pin the other team back a bit. A DM would be nice, thats true, but a very good manager is either waiting for more value later in the window or has decided that between arteta, chambers and flamini that we have enough steel in that position. I would personally think thats risky but can assure that he knows considerably more than we do

  176. Jimmy

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:40 #55245

    He knows you are right. Of course he does, but he's doing it deliberately, just to spite you and your magnificent footballing brain.

  177. BADARSE

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:34 #55244

    Just posted on the previous article about this very topic. I explained that nothing may happen and it could be 'make do' time. It all depends on departures before buying, and then who is available and at what price and the personal terms demanded. I think a mentality exists of a 'Fantasy Football' approach, a 'let's buy him, let's sell him'. This article has a recurring theme-'we have to do this or else Wenger has failed'. Sorry I don't buy into that headless chicken attitude. Thanks for the article, but I don't subscribe to the outlook.

  178. Gunner be proud

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:33 #55243

    Opinion noted but i don't share it unless we have the same fitness problems as last year and you might be right then. We ll push for a runners up spot i think this time. Utd not close to being ready. Liverpool with CL to deal with and City who will prioritize the CL. Chelsea will be hard to stop getting the crown. Its good to guess and that's whats happening here. Who knows really? Go go Gunners.

  179. Alex

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:32 #55242

    The author should perhaps wait till the end of August before any definitive judgement on the squad? Maybe thats too much to expect. The classic, if I can see it why cant the manager do so argument is lame. It is now confirmed by even Usmanov who has no love for the current management that the manager was mostly powerless to invest significantly in the squad post the Ashburton Grove move and its only since last season that there are significant funds available for transfers. In my view, the author is blowing his load prematurely and may be made to look silly on September 1st.

  180. silentstan

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:31 #55241

    so we forgot the meaning of 'clean sheet'. so how is it that Szez had joint top number of them with Czech? and Khadeira is not a real dm but another Ramsey

  181. james

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:24 #55240

    i agree.wenger stupidity is something of a dilema,last season 41% of goal conceded came against liverpool,man city and chelsea.we need a solid df to shore up the backline.

  182. ClockEndRider

    Aug 13, 2014, 8:17 #55239

    I think you missed your meeting at Whiners Anonymous....