Thoughts on the Palace game

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Thoughts on the Palace game


The first day of the season often fails to deliver upon the optimism of the summer.

Forget that Arsenal hadn't won an opening day fixture since Everton in 2009. Go back further and ask yourself how Mickey Quinn managed to take 90 minutes out of gorging himself to death to grab a hat trick at Highbury for Coventry, before remembering Mark Robbins and Norwich ruining another Saturday in August.

Managerless Crystal Palace ought to have been in disarray against an Arsenal side who hadn't won a trophy since last Sunday. Still buoyant from the FA Cup and Fourth-Place Trophy double of last season, and with smiles widened by the signing of another superstar from El Classico, I had us down to win by three in a relaxing afternoon. I was looking forward to it.

Such thoughts soon vanished with every minute it took Speroni to take a goal kick. You knew Palace were there for the draw and that's fine, but wasting time after ten minutes? That's Entertainment. It's funny how often the team that has wasted so much time ends up benefitting from the extended injury-time in which they hope to equalise.

Arsenal were fairly comfortable without causing Palace to panic, until the otherwise impressive Chambers joined the list of those in red giving the ball away for free. Szczesny chased out of his area to clear a through ball which Koscielny would have dealt with, and before you know it, Chamakh is winding up to shoot from 40 yards. Had he scored, that Mickey Quinn treble would have been entirety comprehensible by compassion, but Koscielny was back to block the Moroccan's effort before Gibbs saw it out for a corner. I never even knew Hangeland had signed for Palace. Not until he was celebrating the absence of an Arsenal player on the post to clear his glancing header.

I was looking forward to it, and then you wonder why. For f***’s sake, here we go again. Making hard work of it as Speroni lights and smokes a snout before clearing another goal kick, the referee happy for the break to gasp for air. A professional referee ought to look capable of keeping up with play and away from McDonald’s. A man who couldn't even control the vanishing spray is expected to control a Premier League match? Whilst on the subject of the vanishing spray, I'm afraid the time has already come when cheering its appearance will be frowned upon, unless the tubby fella in charge sprays it in his face again of course.

Thankfully, Alexis floated a perfect free kick in for Koscielny to twist his body around and head home just before the break. A crucial time to equalise and how often does Koscielny come up with important goals?

Arsenal's attacking focus sharpened with Giroud replacing Sanogo. There was some confusion as to who had scored amidst the relief of celebrating that somebody had. Monreal? Debuchy? We should have known. It's what Aaron Ramsey does and I love him for it, as the optimism returned.

Debuts:

Alexis Sanchez - it was a team performance that lacked fluidity, as should be expected on the first day of the season. Alexis reflected this as much as anyone, but he's a star and will come good. In doing so, he'll have to deal with the physical attention he'll receive in the Premier League, the added focus of being the star man. Unfortunately we don't have Lionel Messi to attract three defenders, leaving space for others. There was little, if any, space behind a deep-lying Palace. Many teams will come to the Emirates and set up the same and Alexis might find his feet in the counter-attacking opportunities of away games.

Calum Chambers - he carries himself with the stature of a young man who knows how good he is, and that he belongs at this level. Quite quickly, he's making other people think exactly the same of him. Any talk of him replacing Mertesacker is at least one year too early, but many who weren't happy with him as third-choice centre-half might already be considering otherwise.

Mathieu Debuchy - a seamless replacement for Sagna who will grow to be a solid part of the back four this season. He also played a crucial part in the winning goal and was unlucky not to be the hero. Whilst he might not win as many headers as Sagna, he showed a real willingness to get forward and assist the attack. If you have to replace Sagna, you might as well do so with the man who replaced him for France.

*Follow me on Twitter @TheArsenal_


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115
comments

  1. BADARSE

    Aug 21, 2014, 10:50 #55637

    Ha ha, Gunner be proud. Yes we were aristocrats, in spirit, mind and soul-my Dad raised us above the gutter with his words and outlook. He constantly laced everyday speak with things like, 'Always aim for the stars, if you fall short you may hit the moon.' It had a profound influence on everything which followed, and is on going. We lived in a little flat in a grubby part of London, with gaslight to see by. Formica came as a magnificent new invention. Bright colours, wipe-clean surfaces. Life was improving so fast, and the mistake in thinking was that it would continue to improve. The kids of today have been short-changed, much of what is seen on here-the whining-is as a direct result of unreasonable expectations and demands. Then Bakelite hit the market...

  2. Gunner be proud

    Aug 21, 2014, 10:35 #55636

    Badarse - i like that. Kitchen table and units were always 'formica' in my house as a lad. My Mom thought it so modern and stylish bless her heart!! Wood eh? You aristocrat you!

  3. BADARSE

    Aug 21, 2014, 9:52 #55630

    Evening Athoz, your post was the first I read, and have read no others yet. I remember my Mum's table was always covered with a table cloth on a Sunday, or special occasions. During everyday situations it was a bare wooden surface. In the centre was the tomato sauce, the brown sauce, salt and pepper, and the sugar bowl. Often the sugar bowl had dark congealed pieces of sugar attached to the rim, where tea had dripped off the spoon, (did I ever use the sugar spoon as a tiddler). The teapot, covered with it's 'cosy' took pride of place. A whistling kettle was really music to my ears-that's probably why I went overboard when I first heard the Beatles. When will your weather improve? Today I sit with warm sun streaming through the windows-another day in paradise, whilst others live in dread, and I am referring to the poor oppressed of the world, not the Dark Moonies.

  4. Ozzie

    Aug 21, 2014, 3:40 #55620

    Badarse, ketchup?? Are you referring to da gooners? They sure have a bit of ketching up to do at the moment. Anyone for good ole tomato sauce? You probably need it for a pommie BBQ :-)

  5. BADARSE

    Aug 20, 2014, 19:08 #55612

    maguiresbridge, despite not caring much for Arsene Wenger, you are a good man. (Psst! Wanna see my conkers?)

  6. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 20, 2014, 18:17 #55608

    BADARSE, I know what you mean where promises are concerned, no apologies needed, it does no harm to tell each other off every now and again.

  7. BADARSE

    Aug 20, 2014, 17:00 #55604

    maguiresbridge my wife has just seen the posts, admonished me, (so another sorry), but queried my conkers falling off. I have checked and she is quite right, they are still there, and ones an 'sixer', must be all that vinegar soaking.

  8. BADARSE

    Aug 20, 2014, 16:45 #55602

    Afternoon maguiresbridge. Yes it wasn't the best of posts, apologies due to both of you, though it was directed in main at MARCUS, who kind of laid it down low to myself and westlower. It sort of creates a polarisation, so that isn't good. The separation does come from your side of the fence though, in terms of initiation. By referring to, 'Your messiah' etc., but in any case my post was unacceptable, so once more apologies. A promise? Wow, those days have gone buddy, well only since my conkers fell off. Of course westlower isn't my Dad, silly-he's my big brother forever trying to keep me out of scrapes. Walking into a lamppost? Well I lean on one occasionally, in case a certain little lady goes by, and I do walk now and again, usually around Xmas time and then as often or not it's backwards. Do go back to the posts on the previous article and try to see where I was coming from-and it wasn't the Dark Side of the Moon. By the way on your side of the fence some of my apples have fallen, they are yours, but two apples do not make a pear. My garden, first Saturday in January, for a virtual F-F-F-B-B-Q! Bring your own ketchup, but I've got red jelly for you, your favourite!

  9. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 20, 2014, 13:22 #55588

    BADARSE, get out of bed the wrong side this morning? were you on a promise that wasn't kept? or did OGL let you down or something and give you nothing to come on and brag about. And your a fine one to be accusing anybody of having an appreciation society going by your posts to your best mate westie, you even showed us that in the first sentence of your post apparently he's your dad now or is it just that our society's bigger, your welcome to walk into a lamp post and see the light and join us.

  10. Gunner be proud

    Aug 20, 2014, 12:17 #55586

    He is a real tryer is Mr Giroud Bard and its right that he is limited as you say. He ll score 15 goals in the less pressured PL games though for sure i think. Young Chambers for the back up CB then? Looks good to me. He ll get found out a time or two versus top notch strikers,of course he will, but hes not going to meet that many in truth is he? The CL is a bit of fun really. No more, no less. I still reckon that with a bit less naivety in the bigger PL games, we ll win more than we ll lose and get top 4. The Clubs not equipped for better yet and we have to accept it im afraid. All of what we are going through now and in recent years is in preparation for the departure of Arsene. The Club will push on considerably in 2 years or thereabouts. We have to be patient and its not easy.

  11. Bard

    Aug 20, 2014, 10:42 #55581

    I dont understand the doom and gloom of some of the posts. Nothing has changed from last season so why get upset. We bought a good player in Sanchez and filled in a couple of others. Chambers looks outstanding. Giroud is Giroud, why expect him to morph into Falcao. Its clear we wont win the CL but thats not news. I keep saying hold on till we have played Everton City and Chelsea and then see where we are. The disappointment comes with believing we are going to be contenders, we are not thats club spin. We had a gilted edged chance to win the PL last year but didnt take it and a good few on here reckoned that would be it for a long while and I tend to agree. My concern is that we look all over the place at the moment and arent creating much.

  12. JM - LONDON

    Aug 20, 2014, 10:21 #55580

    We spent some good money on some good players, about time. I'm so, so worried though that we have a really crap striker in giroud whose performance in the cup final was so poor he shouldn't have been awarded a winners medal, he's not improved since and we won't seriously compete with him up front. Then there's poor young Sonogo, not his fault he's been picked but I can't believe he's wearing an Arsenal shirt. I expected him to go out on loan this season, but nobody clearly wants him. And then there's Cesc, judging by his performance for chelski the other night, he will be, well just brilliant. I'm already flabbergasted that we didn't re sign him when he was available to us, and whatever the reason we didn't sign him will be the worst bit of business in a long, long time. I can only suspect that the return of Theo to an already packed midfield will see him used as a pacey striker so pushing giroud out of the team. Some progress this year at last but I'm still worried when we hold on to, frankly, crap players.

  13. Ozzie...

    Aug 20, 2014, 10:21 #55579

    One cant help wondering if Sanogo may have done better than Giroud whose performance was terrible and is not worthy of his place in a top side. Fast forward wouldn't have made this game any more interesting and, in fact, the only positives to come out was that they didn't lose and did persevere in an intimidating atmosphere. These first two games do not exactly raise any real hopes though, do they? Maybe Walcott and Ozil can breathe some life into the side.

  14. Gunner be proud

    Aug 20, 2014, 9:59 #55578

    58793 - Yup. I support the fact that we have Coach weve got. I thought it was quite obvious. Not at all trying to sneak into my posts my support for him being the Coach surreptitiously at all.Why should i? Hes a top man and yes, there are aspects of his methods i don't agree with at times. Is that clear and unambiguous enough? To answer Marcus - No. I dont reckon we can win the title either for the obvious reasons that shouldn't in my respectful view need much debate about, but in a nutshell Chelsea and Manch C are too strong. Credit to them and i can live with it.

  15. DJ

    Aug 20, 2014, 9:49 #55577

    At least I realise why Wenger plays our number 22 so when Giroud plays we all breathe a collective sigh and say at least it's not SANOGO

  16. BADARSE

    Aug 20, 2014, 9:30 #55576

    My Dad westlower has answered you fairly well, but I always want a piece. Where on earth are you coming from? On the previous article you and maguiresbridge warped the posts and got together in a twosome reminiscent of a mutual admiration society, 'MARCUS, you look a bit like Brad Pitt.', 'Oh, maguiresbridge as a statesman you remind me of Barak Obama.' Are you both on something? Your post is nonsense in that it muddies the water in so many ways. You say untrue things, (see what I did there?), and pursue an end result which you could say in a sentence-'I don't like BADARSE, westlower, AW, and many players, live in a fantasy world where I wish I ran AFC, but have maguiresbridge to compensate.'

  17. Artetanal

    Aug 20, 2014, 9:24 #55575

    It's over for me. I just want a quiet life. I like to shop with my wife. Maybe Ramsay is not so like old Fabbie. He looks great in that blue, no? Hello Fred. We miss your laughter.

  18. Westlower

    Aug 20, 2014, 8:55 #55574

    @Marcus, No I don't think AFC can win the PL. CFC & Man C are so much stronger than us and it's hard to see both of them under performing. The bookies reckon it's 70% certain one or other will win the PL. AFC, Man U & Liverpool lumped together only have a 30% chance of winning the PL. AFC are rated with a 15% chance of being Champions but the reverse of that is they have an 85% chance of not winning it. No one disagree's with you that a better CF than Giroud would be desirable, as would replacements for Cazorla & Arteta but we don't live in a financial world where we can go and buy 3 or more World class players in one transfer window, unless you know different?

  19. AMG

    Aug 20, 2014, 8:41 #55573

    Sorry Arsene, that was me who threw the object when you took Alexis off and left Cazorla on. Obviously kidding, but seriously, how bad does Orville need to play to get pulled off?

  20. Bard

    Aug 20, 2014, 7:09 #55572

    Pretty awful game. They look laboured and well off the pace. Nothing surprising about Girouds performance. I don't quite get why Sanchez is playing so wide, I thought he was a striker, hopes he is not another Asharvin, being played in the wrong position, a terrific performance from Chambers, he looks the business. Roll on Everton away !!!

  21. Mathew

    Aug 20, 2014, 5:25 #55571

    Besiktas didnt wanted to concede and was looking for playing at home advantage, if they can sneak one in thru Ba's pace. But we must admit our defense & goalkeeper had a good game. Kos managed to keep them together, Monreal was better and our future looks bright in Chambers. Once Per is back, we should try and play Chambers at the DM position, to gain confidence and playing time. I expected Santi to be switched with Campbell (could've been a surprise for the hosts) so that we could have two upfront or even replacing Giroud. He needs to avoid his marker to get a better first touch and to make a decent run to the box. Everybody expected us to come out with a better scoreline, hence this blog is going to be real busy today.

  22. WENGER HAS GOT ALONG WAY TO GO CONINCE ME (MARCUS)

    Aug 20, 2014, 1:26 #55570

    @Bardarse and Westlower. Do any of you still think or believe we can win the pl?? Come on now, Giroud has been exposed for what he is and for what a lot of us on here have been saying for two years. Hes a C rate striker at best and would not start for any of our so called main rivals yet you folks still thought we could win with. Oh dear,dear. As I said he huffs and puffs but he has not got the required minerals need at this level. He has no pace, is a shockingly awful finisher. As Gary Linekar tweeted "with our midfield any arsenal main striker should be scoring 25 goals a season minimum. Giroud can not hit a bard door with a banjo. He makes great players look poor as they know there is no point playing a through ball or any ball over the top. Did you lot not see our players look at this guy in disgust??. Sanchez was shaking hes head in disbelief, I bet he could not believe why he signed for arsenal. Ramsey was another one shaking hes head in down right shock that giroud was that poor. Demba ba was made to look world class because giroud is so below average its actually embarrassing for us as a team. Arteta is another one who should not be any where near our first 11. What is the main aim?? To win the league or finish top 4?? If its to win the league we will not be doing that we does two anywhere near the first 11, absolutely poor average quality. You can even come close to winning the league with those c rate players. Also I went back and looked at the 3 wenger sides that won the pl. 1997/1998= VIERIA AND PETIT, 2001/2002= VIERIA AND PARLOUR/EDU, 2003/2004= VIERIA AND GILBERTO SILVA. Whats the common trait in that cm and dm positions?? We had POWER, ATHLETICISM AND DETERMINATION. We completely lack that with Arteta and Wilshere another OVERRATED ENGLISH SO CALLED "ONE FOR THE FUTURE" Hes 22 right?? Ohhh anyway. We looked so bad in Turkey, so unbalanced. That friendly win against man city seems so far away now. We need reinforcements asap. We need a striker, a cb and a cdm, but will the "Mr 18 years manager of arsenal, who does not listen to anyone who has managed zero games" go out and actually buy those players?? He conned a lot fo folks on here or all around the world i.e my fellow arsenal fans. With the singing of Alexsis Sanchez. The rest were all signings he had to make to replace the players we lost. Again I never fell for it like a few. We actually should have bee down by two goals Demba Ba should have scored atleast once. We had a man called Giroud making those faces and pulling hes hair back when he misses hes usual balls put on a plate?? NO MORE EXCUSES FOR THIS GUY FOLKS. You are just turning to loyal moonie followers. Every reasonable person can see we need a better striker, a cdm and a cb. ITS CLEAR AS CUT!!!

  23. DW Thomas

    Aug 20, 2014, 1:06 #55569

    Test the patience GBP? Its obvious you lean way towards the side supporting Wenger in all things. I hear the same old excuses. We can't compete with the oil money, we're building for the future, our young talent will come good, etc, etc, etc. Wow, I really am beginning to lose all ability to stomach the bs thrown about on here. When I talked of Arteta earlier, iwas thinking he would have been a way better alternative to Denilson in those barren years from 2008-2013! We are praising our team for a solid defensive effort, yet we are supposed to be AND ARE KNOW FOR BEING AN ATTACKING TEAM FFS! This club can be so much more than even what we have been in our glorious past! But, those with no ambition are happy to settle for the sausages, even when you're forking out caviar dollars. It just take better decisions in the board room, a little more risk, and better tactics.

  24. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 22:19 #55568

    Mag Gooner - of course i do. There are some really good 'anti' posters on here. It makes for colourful exchanges doesn't it as long as they dont disintegrate into less than savoury attacks, which can happen at times of course.There are things about the Club im not so keen on and some of Arsene Ws ways test the patience for sure. Pretty tepid stuff in Turkey wasnt it!! Back line kept a good shape though i thought.

  25. Mandrake

    Aug 19, 2014, 22:13 #55567

    you there i here cheers within the games you there i here screams within the stands you there i here shouts within the team i there you here echoes within our lives.

  26. Man United Killer

    Aug 19, 2014, 22:11 #55566

    Wenger's one dimensional,no plan B, playing players out of position, no creativity, boring, no left width,no shooting,excessive passing,set pieces conceding tactics comes up short again. We may not have the best players but the manger's tactics is the reason why trophies continue to evade us.

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 19, 2014, 22:02 #55565

    AMG, you forgot sticking his tongue out just like a horse is it any wonder his Mrs forgave him, he's obviously good at something.

  28. smithy

    Aug 19, 2014, 21:44 #55564

    The positves- the back 5 excellent. The negatives- midfield and Giroud. Why won't he give joel campbell a go?

  29. AMG

    Aug 19, 2014, 21:38 #55563

    Well I look forward to another season of Giroud holding his head in his hands and falling over. He really is garbage! We will win nothing with Giroud as our main striker (unless we get an easy run in one of the cups again). O well, the second leg should be a better game, if nothing else the pitch will be more conducive to decent football. Another great performance from Chambers though!

  30. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 19, 2014, 21:35 #55562

    Gunner be proud, i respect your opinions and posts even if they lean more towards support for Mr Wenger and I don't have a problem with that, but i'd like to think you agree the fact that fans who don't accept our limitations doesn't make them any less gunners fans either, and the fact that some do think that is also sad, and I certainly don't accept that.

  31. BADARSE

    Aug 19, 2014, 20:48 #55561

    HT, and am confused, perhaps a little tetchy, as it seems Gunner be proud has been getting my 'stick', thanks buddy. Interesting post again 24601. Blue-shirted ice cream lickers and Big Ears...but no Noddy.

  32. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 18:51 #55560

    AMG i think the Club will get to where we would all like them to get eventually but its too soon for them yet. Im not so impatient as many of us are. Ive already saidas well that it will happen after Arsene s time is done.It does take money. I disagree there. Money is like a magnet and encourages the best coaches and players to look at a Club. The rest looks after itself by and large. It needs spending well though. A fool and his money are soon parted as they say. AFC are and always have been cautious. They want more debt to be discharged first. In the meantime Arsenes doing a good job in my view. Hes accepted that he cant compete financially and the Board know hes not going to kick up a bug fuss over it. Hes compromised his footballing objectives and hes paid very well in return. Some say its quite a poor show that hes done so, i actually admire what hes done since 2006.If that sounds limp, then so be it, but to keep us up there for so long despite the constraints is a superb show i think. We have a squad of players that all the PL clubs save for Chelsea and City would want i think. I dont think AW gets everything right, of course i dont, but he gets more right than he gets wrong.He is a little suspect tactically at times too. Name a Coach that isnt though. BARD says that the Club over egg the spin a touch.I can agree with that too. Its a very good point. Modern businesses all do it though. Its the World we live in. COYG

  33. Bard

    Aug 19, 2014, 18:18 #55559

    GBP; I get that, I really do but the rub is that the club don't they consistently try to spin us a line that we're in the elite. They have to otherwise how will they justify their annual price hikes. If they did away with the smoke and mirrors things would be calmer. However there is also AMGs view which I also agree with. They could be doing a lot better. The financial disparity argument masks a lot of bad decisions. It does seem as though Dortmund and Athletico manage to compete. Westie; good shout. We know that Wenger likes a bargain and whats not to like about Song, Can play anywhere in midfield and has played at the back for Barca. Interesting.

  34. AMG

    Aug 19, 2014, 18:02 #55558

    Gunner be - It doesn't take Man City/Chelsea money to compete with those 2 clubs. Look at Livepool last season and Atletico, your idea of what is axiomatic is a bit suspect. How hard is it to purchase a defensive midfield player whose better than Arteta?! I would suggest even Spurs could manage it. We have £15m from the sale of TV, so can we not find a decent centre back for £15m? The cost of the needless Alexis/Ozil signings adds up to what £75m, the same as one Suarez - Not that I'm advocating the purchase of Suarez, but it at least adds up to a Falcao or a Cavani with some to spare. These are 3 positions that everyone, associated with football or otherwise, has been banging on about for us strengthening to become title challengers. So if everyone else can work it out, why can't a man on £8m a year? Don't accept the piffling crap Wenger serves up at caviar prices, demand more, it wouldn't take much to get a club the size of Arsenal competing for real honours, just a bit of real ambition.

  35. Danny

    Aug 19, 2014, 17:48 #55557

    Did anyone see Cesc in Action!. we need to get rid of Wenger. he has handed the title to Chelsea Instead he has kept a lazy average Wilshire and lazy turk well done Wenger!!

  36. Westlower

    Aug 19, 2014, 17:34 #55555

    Does talk of Coquelin being loaned to QPR make it likely that Alex Song will return on a free loan to AFC? The significance of Coquelin leaving is that he is one of our eight 'home grown' players that will need replacing with same, and Song fits the bill.

  37. Badarse/Gunner be Proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 17:17 #55554

    You don't say!

  38. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 16:57 #55553

    Agree with you Brad that much of the paper talk is speculative. For what its worth im not sure the Khadira talk ever held any water. My starting point on any of my own opinions is that we absolutely cannot run such as Chelsea and City closely for the top prizes, unless extraneous factors beyond the control of such Clubs intervene in our favour. Its axiomatic that this is the case surely? Where i differ from many others is that im happy knowing it. Im enlightened enough by what ive seen for the last 10 years to have learned it. Why dont other observers? Much of the angst, groans and anti Club/Arsene brick bats we see on here are expressions and cries of frustrated, unreal expectations more so than being part of a rational critique. To accept our limitations seems to make those who do a lesser Gunners fan if my reading of the posts is in the main correct. I find that very sad. I dont accept it either.

  39. Please stop peddling this myth

    Aug 19, 2014, 16:56 #55552

    Amos- Re your first sentence, well considering that contrary to your previous assertion no-one actually believes that, you can rest assured that it's unlikely to happen.

  40. DJ

    Aug 19, 2014, 16:47 #55551

    Chris: Trophies at any cost are you sure you shouldn't be supporting Chelsea???? Just a joke mate let's hope we are celebrating some more come May!

  41. Brad

    Aug 19, 2014, 16:40 #55550

    Gunner Be; Always opinions my friend nothing else. As far as facts go I would suggest your 'fact' is mere conjecture. Earlier in the sumer we were nailed on for Khedira. If you remember it was a fact that we were trying to buy a striker all last summer and then bought Ozil last minute. So I would have a bit of problem with viewing the paper talk as 'fact'. As I understand it we have 9 midfield players and 5/6 defenders depending where you place Chambers. If you want to win anything then thats light in my book. However we then open up the thorny question of whether Arsenal are that serious about competing, My consistent view is that they aren't so the question about heavy or light becomes slightly irrelevant.

  42. chris dee

    Aug 19, 2014, 16:36 #55549

    DJ. Are you sure matey? The worlds gone bananas for sure. I don't see any trophies showing around the perimeter of the Emirates dedicated to goals scored by Fabrigas against Spurs,but I can see a European Cup Winners Cup winners trophy.Eddie McGoldrick over Fabrigas any day as well as Willie Young, David Price and John Roberts.

  43. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 16:24 #55548

    'Tetchy' and 'confused' today. I'm doing pretty well for barbs today Bard. Its fine. Keep them coming. I digress. On to your point, of course a stand in CB could play 30 games, but the usual fitness of PM and LK suggests not. Your logic would suggest that AFC need 2 excellent quality players for each position. Not needed is it. We have squad men already though you chose to dismiss my view on that in an earlier post. Your privilege and i respect that. More to the point, AFC wouldn't effect it. Theres a 'fact' if you want one. We are it seems looking at the CB mentioned in the press today, so best hold off from sending Mr W to the gallows for a while is suggested?. I don't share the view that we are 'seriously light' either. I may be proved wrong but then so may you, so why use such hyperbole to try and lend an as yet unproven opinion some semblance of a fact. Its just your opinion. You cant monopolise truth as much as it seems to annoy you that you cant. What's more, ive every confidence that our squad will perform admirably in the bigger tests that you mention this season. It could be misplaced confidence granted but yours and others depressing, domesday scenario's painted so frequently on here isn't one that i want to subscribe to. COYG

  44. Amos

    Aug 19, 2014, 16:22 #55547

    You would be chasing rainbows, and peddling a myth, if you spent money in the mistaken belief that simply spending money in one transfer window would automatically result in immediate trophies. Our player of last season was a player we bought 6 years earlier. Whether you're chasing rainbows or not is dependent on whether the players you believe will improve the squad are available to you at the time.

  45. Bard

    Aug 19, 2014, 15:55 #55546

    I had a text from my best mate who is a Chelsea fan telling me how good Fabregas was last night and how much difference he is going too make to Chelsea. Painful beyond belief. I wrote way back that the better he does at Chelsea the more pressure it will heap on Wenger. Signing him was a no brainer even if we had to shift someone else on. I like Santi but he is not in Cesc's class and never will be and neither for that matter will Jack. But as has been said its done and we have to move on. Right now we need defensive additions pronto. As for Gunner be Proud's question where can we buy a CB who plays for 5 or 6 games a season? The answer is why does a CB only play 5 games a season? Where does that figure come from? He could play 20 or 30 who knows. To my mind all the tetchiness in the post is because we all know, even that arch optimist Westie, that we're seriously light going into the new campaign. Its early days we will get a more realistic view once Sept is over and we know who we have or haven't signed; we have played Everton away , City and Chelsea.

  46. DJ

    Aug 19, 2014, 15:53 #55545

    Chris: The four minutes the Eddie McGoldrick played against Parma in 1994 gave you more pleasure than Cesc's career for Arsenal including his goals against Spurs really????

  47. chris dee

    Aug 19, 2014, 15:40 #55544

    AMG. No I will not applaud him in his Chelsea shirt,I will roundly boo him. He did not give me hours of joy,the only players who gave me hours of joy were the one that won us trophies,and I am not including his time played in the win over United. Which is why,Andy Linighan,Stephen Morrow,Igor Stephanovs,Ian Selley,Eddie McGoldrick,Lucas Fabianski and many others who won us trophies gave me more pleasure. Although I suppose you can compare him to Yaya Sonogo who also won a F A Cup winners medal spending roughly the same amount of time on the pitch as Fabrigas did against United.

  48. Please stop peddling this myth

    Aug 19, 2014, 15:23 #55543

    Amos- Considering the definition of chasing rainbows is 'trying to achieve something that is not possible or practical', it's rather silly to put 2008 or 2011 (or 2010) into that category. And as for 'There's mistaken belief that if you spend money in one transfer window it will automatically result in immediate trophies'. Well, no there isn't.

  49. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 14:52 #55542

    I recall being at Bham in late Feb 2008 when Eduardo was so badly injured. We drew and ended the game 5 points clear of Utd. Until then Adebayor and Eduardo had been forging a fine partnership after RVP was out for a while. We never picked it up after the leg break and Adebayor ran out of petrol as i recall it? Understandably so. What was Wenger to do in February? How could he buy then? In 2011 we were a little indifferent at times in the PL by early Feb but the CC campaign was very healthy as i recall? Was there really a burning need to buy and again, in February? Football fan or accountant, they dont hold the transfer window open for AFC do they? Can you enlarge on the assertion that the boardroom have been more 'ambitious'. Ive mentioned earlier of the strife in the Boardroom in 2008. How has their ambition manifested itself? if their ambition has surpassed Arsenes, how is it that hes still our Coach and they are so relaxed about his latest contract.Surely, they would have effected change if his methods were so out of touch with their purported ambition? Your posts are so revisionary in their efforts to twist history to suit your present day angst, they are with respect somewhat puerile 58762.

  50. AMG

    Aug 19, 2014, 14:39 #55541

    Chris - I'd much rather see him in an Arsenal shirt, but it's Wenger I take issue with, not Cesc. I will personally applaud him when he returns to the Emirates as I remember all the moments of joy he gave me and fellow Gooners - I suggest others do likewise. We may not have a better team or manager than Chelsea, but as fans we're sure as hell better than those Chavs.

  51. Amos

    Aug 19, 2014, 14:37 #55540

    We don't know what Arsene was told he could spend. There will have been a transfer budget based on meeting broader financial objectives which Arsene may or may not have spent that season. All Fiszman said was 'IF' Wenger had approached the board to go outside the budget - to spend £30m on a key player he felt was essential - the board would make the funds available (though at the expense of future budgets). That they didn't have those funds at that time is clear from the financial reports at the time. That money would only have been available if the club had borrowed even more money. In the event both the board and Wenger were ambitious enough not to chase rainbows at the cost of their ability to compete in the future. There's mistaken belief that if you spend money in one transfer window it will automatically result in immediate trophies. It took Abramovich 3 seasons and £325m plus on transfers before he was able to buy a squad to win the title. Five years later it took Mansour 4 seasons and £500m to repeat that achievement. At the other end Spurs spent some £8m in 11/12 and finished 4th. They spent £62m in 12/13 and finished 5th and £104m in 13/14 and finished 6th. Liverpool were stronger last season but how much of that strength was due to what they had done in the transfer window? Nothing to do with Alberto, Aspas and Illori while Sakho played less than half a season and Toure seemed more of a liability. Tempting as it might be to imagine if we spent a little more in 2008 or 2011 it would have assured that we would have won the title the evidence suggests that the payback time, if there is to be one, is a good bit less immediate. The good thing is that as finances have improved Arsenal has started to spend consistently. Since Kroenke took control we have spent as much in the last 4 seasons as we had spent in the previous 13 or more.

  52. DJ

    Aug 19, 2014, 14:37 #55539

    CT Gooner: Excellent Post. We all know the club can not compete on an even footing with Chelsea and Man City but we should be able to afford a decent centre back and a top quaility holding midfielder.

  53. Please stop peddling this myth

    Aug 19, 2014, 14:05 #55538

    Amos- So Wenger spent half as much as he was told he could spend, seems like nothing changes. In 2008 we were 5 points clear at the end of Feb, in 2011 we were second top in Jan with a defensive injury crisis and Wenger didn't spend a penny to address the problem. Despite the spending of Chelsea and Man City there have been opportunities throughout the long barren period but Wenger has been unable to capitalise on them. The club wouldn't have nose-dived for the sake of the figures we're talking about, but maybe to be absolutely on the safe side we shouldn't spend a penny until 2031 when the stadium debt is fully paid off or at least for another few years until FFP has really kicked in, and I guess it all depends on whether you're looking at the game through the eyes of an accountant or a football fan. One thing is clear from Fiszman's statement though, over the last few years the board have definitely been more ambitious than the manager.

  54. CT Gooner

    Aug 19, 2014, 14:01 #55537

    The Cesc ship has sailed, now chelsea have a real hope of CL and premier league success. But I don't care about them, I care about us! We have replaced the players that left and added a quality forward. That's all well and good, but it fails to address the glaring weaknesses of last years squad. I'm happy we passed on Cesc, if we sign a quality striker and world class holding midfield general, otherwise we just cashed in. I guess the biggest struggle I have with folks with Pro Board Room/Manager opinions is there never seems to be a question of fan value. I'm expected to pay the highest costs for a mediocre side and then say "thank you". Well it's not September yet, so just maybe we'll get the players we need, but I won't be holding my breath. Right now it seems Alexis was bought to sell shirts I'm afraid

  55. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 13:51 #55536

    58747. I recall well that Bracewell Smith was ousted from the lock down agreement in or about 2008/09? Mr Edelmnan was forced out as well, not long after Mr Dein. The Boardroom was pretty unstable then it seems and adds to your financially focused points. I'm just suggesting to the earlier poster that the late DF's statement should be considered in that context before judging how appropriate it was. It appears, that's vague and makes me confused. So be it. ill survive.

  56. chris dee

    Aug 19, 2014, 13:50 #55535

    AMG. No one can stand in the way of a player who want's to play for the club that's 'in his blood'. But it warms the old cockles to know some Arsenal fans are happy for Cesc to be at a better club with a better squad and a better manager. We should all give him three cheers as he trots out in his blue Chelsea shirt at the Emirates.

  57. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 19, 2014, 13:27 #55534

    DJ, you can be sure this class that we're supposed to have will go out the window (for ninety minutes anyway) when Cesc returns, the fans who think he let them and their messiah down by joining the chavs are probably already planning their back turning routine, thank goodness he was never involved in rape allegations or they'd be showing their class by singing a song about that throughout, but I suppose they could always trawl back through the history books and find something that happened when he was thirteen or fourteen and use that.

  58. Chairman Mao

    Aug 19, 2014, 13:01 #55532

    Good to see more posters from the Red Guard,methodically going about the business of correcting peoples mistaken view of Arsenals history, and proving that Arsene does no wrong. Remember fellow Red Guards, behind every dissenting post is a Spurs fan. Weed them out and hunt them down. Come on Fred etc, get on here and start hurling abuse.

  59. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 12:58 #55531

    Sorry. i didn't know i was 'confused'. I'm happy enough being that way though if i am and its enough to suggest that you might want to play 'my Dad's tougher than yours'. Not my style im afraid in the absence of all of the facts and your retort 58749 doesn't really prove much, at least not as i see it in my confused state. PS I've just s read what seems to be a better and very well informed post (underneath mine) though. Try barracking that gentleman should you wish.

  60. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 19, 2014, 12:56 #55530

    BADARSE, what message would it send out? it would send out the message that Arsenal are ambitious that Arsenal want to better themselves and mean business. When these players are jumping ship for an extra £50,000 plus a week or for whatever reason they're not showing much loyalty or worrying what message that sends out, and you'd think wenger above all people would realise that.

  61. Fab

    Aug 19, 2014, 12:55 #55529

    Fabregas ain't a money grabbing traitor,like Van Persestrings,Adabayor,Nasri and Cole.

  62. AMG

    Aug 19, 2014, 12:55 #55528

    Chrissy - Fabregas would have captained us to a cup success if the last 2 rounds featured had Wigan and Hull. He even won the FA cup with us when we played Manchester United in the final, something more of a test the Hull... maybe. If he didn't want to sell him, then why did he? Fabregas had plenty of time left on his contract, maybe he should have had the balls to stand up to Barca for once and not sell them our best player - For a cut down fee I should add! Let's not forget that Adebayor didn't actually want to leave Arsenal, Wenger just saw an opportunity to cash in on the oil money he apparently has such disdain for. Although jeering Adebayor might be fun, you've really been had if Wenger has convinced you that he's the villain. Cesc is at a more ambitious club, with a proper squad which has been properly prepared by a real winner of a manager, good luck to him. Had Wenger allowed him to return it would have been to the detriment of his career, yet he would have done it, so ask yourself if you'd like to reconsider narrow mindedness.

  63. Ozzie..

    Aug 19, 2014, 12:39 #55527

    Someone left the cake out in the rain....

  64. chris dee

    Aug 19, 2014, 12:32 #55526

    AMG Deluded ?Nah mate. Arsene did not want to sell Fabrigas,Fabrigas wanted to leave the club that are 'in his heart' to go the club that are 'in his blood' Barcelona. Arteta is nowhere near as talented as Fabrigas but he captained us to a Cup Final win which Fabrigas ,playing for the club 'in his heart' didn't manage.And as we know it's trophies that count. DJ. Show our class by not booing Fabrigas? Why?Did he leave us after winning trophies galore? No me old mucker,to me he is no better than Adebayor and I hope the fans show their passion and give him plenty of moronic abuse when he play against the club 'in his heart'.

  65. Please stop peddling this myth

    Aug 19, 2014, 12:23 #55525

    Gunner be Proud- Please find me counter statements from board members in 2008 to back up your vague and confused post. The statement from Fiszman was clear and unambiguous.

  66. Amos

    Aug 19, 2014, 11:52 #55523

    Shortly after Fiszman said they would back Wenger he spent £15m on Arshavin. But the club's short term debt alone(amounts payable in one year) - not including the stadium debt - was £314m at the time. To have spent more than they did at that time they would have had to borrow more money against future income. By 2011 that short term debt had fallen to £131m - a more balanced figure but almost £200m less. Since that time the club has spent big in the transfer market averaging over £50m a year. If we'd spent big in the years when debts were high - even though the club would probably have increased their debts further if Wenger had told them he could have achieved more spending just another £30m (not likely in a period when City and Chelsea were happily spending 3 or 4 times that amount)- we'd have less to spend now as indebtedness would still be relatively high. It is often necessary to join what is being said with other information to understand the decisions that were made. What Fiszman said was undoubtedly true but it doesn't begin to tell the whole story.

  67. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 11:50 #55522

    There was a maelstrom of statements and counter statements emerging from the Boardroom back in 2008 depending upon which member from which faction in there made them. As i recall it there was talk of some members not being full square behind Arsene as well. Could this statement have been tinged with mischief from DF? Can you say with certainty that it wasnt? I cant say with certainty that it was. It may well have been that such funds could have been found but whether there was or ever could have been a universal boardroom view that it was safe to find it must have been questionable. We ll never know i suppose. The context of the statement that you mention is important and we don't know enough to fully contextualise it do we really. I certainly don't anyway.

  68. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 11:36 #55521

    Sorry to seem 'negative' on earlier posts but the two clubs we allude to do have an unmatchable ability to sign who they want to sign as they offer packages to players that other Clubs cant. AFC don't and cannot even if they wanted to. This is real, albeit a negative fact for us as AFC supporters to bear. Its not made easy as its Chelsea, a Club who we have traditionally looked upon as a lesser Club. When it was only the moneybags Man Utd of old, the same depth of anti sentiment didn't exist did it, though the old dislike of them as a team was and remains a stark feature for most fans.I think what we as Gunners fans have never handled is that when our grand plans to develop as a Club came to fruition in the early noughties, there seemed no prospect of a Chelsea resurgence to this level, though they were still a good outfit under Ranieri nontheless. It is what it is and we have to accept it. I would say as well that our greatest teams have always emerged largely from the development of our own players rather than by force of the Clubs cheque book. I expect this not to change and i respect our Club for trying to remain true to this method of team building. I don't expect everyone to agree with that of course. I like an exciting signing too, but i dont at all want Arsenal to become a Club who fires off cheques from a scatter gun. That isn't what the Club has ever been about for me. COYG

  69. Please stop peddling this myth

    Aug 19, 2014, 11:18 #55520

    Gunner be proud 2014- 'MA price at that time would have been in the 18-22 Million range, money in 2008 that our Club simply never had'. Danny Fiszman 2008 "If he (Wenger) said to us 'I want this guy and he's £30m, can I buy him?' the answer is yes. Absolutely yes. We totally back him. It's his decision".

  70. AMG

    Aug 19, 2014, 10:55 #55519

    Chris Dee - How deluded can you be? Cesc wanted to return to Arsenal, your messiah Monsoir Wenger decided to take the sell on fee instead. So Maureen is the worst human alive in one breath, then he's telling the unassailable truth about '20 mins' in the next? Would Maureen not have good reason to say that Chelsea weren't 2nd choice? Pride maybe? A chance to have a dig at Arsenal? - Goodness knows he needs no invitation. It's good to see that people are finally seeing sense about Cesc, worst decision of Wenger's managerial career to date, including selling RVP to Manure. Cesc was deemed surplus to requirements in a team which features Arteta as captain?? Hmmmm! BADARSE - Not sure how saying that Arsenal can't hope to compete with the top teams is a positive view, I find Gunner be proud to be very negative in that regard. The way I see it, Arteta and Cazorla were both signed as creative replacements for Cesc Fabregas, in my view, neither has quite cut the mustard, although Cazorla has undoubtedly shown moments of brilliance; however for consistency, vision and composure, neither of them come close to Cesc and that is a shame. Unfortunately we can't go back and sign him now, so I hope that he can be very successful with Chelsea and go on to make the PL a more cultured and more intelligent league for it.

  71. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 10:50 #55518

    its all about the bottom line for players with the ambition element to flavour it. Had Spurs have matched the offer and had the chances of success like Chelsea, im fairly sure Cesc Fabregas would have thought of joining them as an option. It has to be understood that these foreign imports dont feel like fans do of Clubs but they do play to the audience with their comments of 'clubs in their hearts' etc etc. Thats the nature of the grip that social media has upon their personal lives that in fairness is what so many of todays younger fans love and of course the media governed game generally. Im not sure CF has done anything so wrong and surely hes done nothing that most people wouldn't have done has he? Its only from a fans angle that the ill feeling arises isnt it. Hes gone. History, but he will do well at Chelsea.

  72. DJ

    Aug 19, 2014, 10:39 #55517

    Chris Dee: We turned Fabregas down before he decided fo join Chelsea I thought everybody was settled on that point. I understand, though disagree, with the financial and football reasons we decided to pass on him but what did you expect him to do retire? While I dislike Mourinho/Chelsea and all they stand for I think it would show how much class our club has if we applauded Cesc when he returns not boo and shout moronic abuse.

  73. Beaugey

    Aug 19, 2014, 9:48 #55516

    Just read Neville's comments on the Sky Sports website; he starts off by saying that he's not writing off Arsenal or Liverpool on the first day of the season, then goes on to claim that the title will 'definitely' be won by City or Chelsea. And he gets paid, like, millions of pounds a year.

  74. chris dee

    Aug 19, 2014, 9:28 #55515

    Our ex captain,who has Arsenal 'in his heart' joins our bitter rivals Chelsea.Their manager,the obnoxious,narcistic little s**t Mourinho has insulted and ridiculed our club and our manager for over ten years. Nice one Cesc.Why didn't you sign for Spurs, that would have been an even bigger kick in the balls for the supporters of the club you 'have in your heart' And don't believe the garbage that Arsene turned him down,as Mourinho said it only took Fabrigas 20 minutes to decide to sign for Chelsea,despite in his own words, having many other offers. Little t****r

  75. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Aug 19, 2014, 9:20 #55514

    Sanchez, what a signing. £35 mill to send over crosses to no one. Well lets hope he gets better as the season progresses. We are missing pace up front something terrible. Get rid of Sanogo quick before its too late.

  76. BADARSE

    Aug 19, 2014, 8:10 #55513

    These posts are out of kilter. The only ones laced throughout with balanced judgement are those by Gunner be proud, it is by chance and coincidence that I share his respectful and positive views of AFC. Mikael wasn't an option a handful of years ago-we didn't need him, and he was a younger more expensive player. That argument has to be struck from the record. The next point needs striking from the record too-leaving no case at all. Fabregas for Santi? You must think business is done like a Tommy Cooper-'Just like that!' Fabregas suddenly became available, Santi was an Arsenal player. What message would that send out, by spending a fortune on a player when his position is already covered? Then we just have to unload a player who then knows he isn't valued-yet we would expect another team to value him enough to buy and at a good price. It's not the real world, gentlefolk, it's immature, and griping after the event is just that-griping!

  77. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 8:07 #55512

    Please read the Carragher/ Neville column on the Sky site. So much good sense spoken. It probably encapsulates what most sensible observers think and goes most of the way to ending the ever re cycling of the debates here. The fact is that those Clubs are on a plane that no others can get close to. They have the cash clout and coaches (like or not like them)that other Clubs simply cant have as they cant afford them. Its that simple. Utd eventually will rally to truly compete with them but it may take them 5 years even. Its a nice but naive thought to think that Arsenal can challenge those Clubs but its not going to happen anytime soon. Best case is that we may take points of them on a day when they are not at their optimum. Meantime, COYG.

  78. Gunner be proud

    Aug 19, 2014, 7:35 #55510

    i don't want to be contrary or rude at all but please, an Arteta at his peak in a creative position in the same team as Cesc at his best with us?It does make me pleased that Arsene is the Coach and not some of you lads on here, not to mention that MA price at that time would have been in the 18-22 Million range, money in 2008 that our Club simply never had and assuming a phone call to Everton would have been all it took to secure his services!

  79. Mathew

    Aug 19, 2014, 6:12 #55509

    Thanks DWT for echoing my thoughts, if Atletico were really interested in Cazorla, we should have sold him and Cesc might have replaced him. He looks lot fitter and matured with age, all the best Cesc.

  80. DW Thomas

    Aug 19, 2014, 0:29 #55507

    Hate to say it...no I don't-told you so! Passing on Fabregas was dumb then and even looks dumber now! He is better than all our midfield bar Ozil, but only when he plays his best, which isn't often enough. Wenger is repeating the same mistakes and its still very early. No striker, CB, or DM. I liked Arteta at Everton, one of my favorite non Arsenal players. We should have bought him 3 years earlier than we did and we might have won something back then. With that said, he looks past it speed wise. And he is not the strongest athlete. He makes up for a lot with grit and smarts, but the PL demands physicality too. I like him, I do, but what have we won with him here? Who are our winners? And not just the FA cup last year. And don't quote his stats. People did that with Denilson too! How on earth Per is not ready is a mystery. Everyone else seems to have their WC performers back and playing. Even if we fill just one of CB, DM, or striker, what will we be doing tactically to combat the big teams? TV must be replaced, otherwise it's more transfer incompetence.

  81. DJ

    Aug 18, 2014, 22:26 #55506

    Chelsea's number 4 looked a good prospect who might be good at unlocking defences when they come to park the bus??? If only we could unearth a gem like that!

  82. Man United Killer

    Aug 18, 2014, 21:49 #55505

    I could not believe that Wenger passed on Cesc...and I still cant believe it.

  83. Danny

    Aug 18, 2014, 21:26 #55504

    no change. same old tiki taka football will get you no way. Wilshere is average at best and we let cesc fabregas go to chelsea we have too many lightweight small players who cannot compete with citeh and chelsea wenger out!

  84. Fabregas

    Aug 18, 2014, 20:59 #55503

    Wenger - there are flies in your soup.

  85. Gunner be proud

    Aug 18, 2014, 20:59 #55502

    So, pray tell who is this easily attainable quality CB that's you have in mind who is going to be content to play 5/6 games per season and otherwise sit there with a blanket over his legs?

  86. BADARSE

    Aug 18, 2014, 20:52 #55501

    What fainthearts!

  87. RDT - 4

    Aug 18, 2014, 20:45 #55500

    We go to Stamford Bridge in a few weeks. What do you reckon Arsene? 12?

  88. Bob

    Aug 18, 2014, 20:44 #55499

    Cesc was a no-brainer. Would you rather have him or Santi Cazorla for the coming season, let alone Rosicky, Diaby or Wilshere? And I see the season didn't come too soon for Shurle or for Aguero, both of whom played in the world cup final. Wenger is a joke who keeps repeating on us.

  89. BADARSE

    Aug 18, 2014, 20:17 #55498

    Bard, there are some whispers doing the rounds that Ozil can play DM, but I would discount the one regarding Santi covering CH.

  90. Bard

    Aug 18, 2014, 20:00 #55497

    Gunner be proud; you aren't serious. This is not Bolton we are talking about but a side that purports to be a contender for the big prizes. Monreal at CB ! We play Everton away and have City and Chelsea in the next few weeks plus Besiktas home and away. You reckon that we can box and cox our way through that ? Its not a post about doom and gloom far from it, I am raising issues about planning and squad management. I accept the theory that they may have wanted a swap with Unitd. But this is a multi million pound organisation so what was plan B ? Or do they make it up as they go along ? I hope we manage to squeak through against Besiktas and have bought someone by the weekend, but I wouldn't bank on it.

  91. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 18, 2014, 18:24 #55496

    Peter Wain, that would take common sense, and no ego.

  92. Gunner be proud

    Aug 18, 2014, 16:57 #55495

    Another CB was considered it seems. It appears to have been Smalling or Jones had Vermaelen gone to Utd. Its perhaps the offer of the price that came in from Barcelona for Vermaelen that made Arsene simply take the view that it was too good an offer to reject. I think it was the right decision. I liked TV but he was very injury prone sadly for him. Mertersacker and Koschielny have good fitness records. I can see why they've chosen to go with the two for now plus we re told that Monreal can perform at CB too. Hes untried there but if its right, hes utility enough for us for now perhaps in most games. If it came to it Mr Flamini was an able left back not so mnany years ago as i recall.There is nothing at all to suggest we wont buy a CB is there? In any event, it can only be a support standard player can it not and not one at the level of the regular starters? In many ways its more difficult to find such a player who s not averse to being a substitute in the main than a higher calibre one it seems? On this CB point i feel that Mr Wenger is being beaten with this particular stick before its justified. Weve played 1 and won 1. Surely its a little early to become too 'black' about things?

  93. Bard

    Aug 18, 2014, 16:16 #55494

    Westie; 'surprised and disappointed' are not words I am used to seeing in your posts. A hint of things to come maybe. Teasing aside, the current defensive difficulty begs a few serious question. You might call it carelessness or bad luck or whatever but it is negligent at best. There are these blind spots that occur, the Kallstrom loan was another, that suggest that there is a fundamental flaw in the clubs planning. Surely they had a CB lined up when they decided they were selling TVM and knew Mertesacker was on extended gardening leave.

  94. Man United Killer

    Aug 18, 2014, 16:00 #55493

    Chamackh was lucky to have been on the field at the final whistle.

  95. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 18, 2014, 15:18 #55492

    There were a lot like you Joe it's called complacency and how many times have we been guilty of that, players and fans alike. Maybe both guilty again on Saturday, thankfully we got away with it, but no doubt there'll be other days when were full of it when we won't. Yes there's nothing that pisses fans of a team that's chasing or looking for the winner off as much as the other team time wasting especially the keeper, but their entitled to set up and play as they like within the rules of course, but it's up to us to break them down (how many times have we heard that before) and not make hard work of it(and that too) not the referee, but unless we eventually learn to do just that there'll be plenty more of these for fook sake here, we go again days.

  96. Gunner6288

    Aug 18, 2014, 15:09 #55491

    Debuchy won 5 headers - I don't know how many Sagna got per match, but I'll wager it wasn't five.

  97. John A

    Aug 18, 2014, 14:36 #55490

    Dear Arsene As per every season since Thierry left.....................new striker please.

  98. John Gage

    Aug 18, 2014, 14:32 #55489

    @Chris Dee: Could not agree more. The Premiership now in some ways reminds me of Serie A in the 1990's where even smaller clubs like Udinese and Parma could give bigger clubs a difficult game. I am guessing because of better training, tactics, physical conditioning etc...I don't think any game can be taken for granted now and I thought Southampton in particular were unlucky not to receive a point.

  99. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Aug 18, 2014, 13:51 #55486

    Appreciate the historical perspective you've provided by referring to those Coventry and Norwich defeats. Much needed in the era of "new football" where everything happens tomorrow. Those defeats were even more perplexing given the reputation and depth of The Arsenal's defensive stocks at the time. Mind you, I don't imagine that the current players spend anywhere near as much time on the ale as our lads did back then!

  100. BADARSE

    Aug 18, 2014, 13:47 #55485

    AMG, what a nice thing to say about Chamakh. Yes it sort of pleased me too, and he made things very difficult on the day. That post says much about you, good things.

  101. AMG

    Aug 18, 2014, 13:39 #55484

    Westie, no one questions the fitness of Arteta, it's his pace or lack there of which is spoken of when people say 'his legs are gone'. He doesn't have that spring in his step any more to recover from a bad touch nor the pace to catch up with the more agile attackers. On a positive note, I was pleased to see Chamakh put in a monster performance, he was everywhere! He was, as much as anyone responsible for our stuttering performance.

  102. Peter Wain

    Aug 18, 2014, 13:15 #55482

    typical Wenger 1 game and we have a defensive crisis. Why did you not buy a centre half before you let Vermalen go?

  103. BADARSE

    Aug 18, 2014, 13:13 #55481

    All very logical 24601. I think of you when the score/bet suddenly appears on TV, as an opportunity to recover a lost original bet. Good for julesd, did she insist it had to be red? (also wonderful that it was the 'man' who won her the bet), ha ha. Here is a similar story, which makes me seem a bit of a twit in the telling. I was working in Ealing, Dec '98, and my other half was wandering around the nice shopping centre in the Broadway, doing some Xmas shopping. She went into a bookies for the first time in her life-boredom whilst waiting for someone can make people do some daft things! She backed Arsenal to beat Leeds in the coming game and Bergy to be the first scorer, as a dual bet. The odds were around 10/1, or 12/1. That weekend we were home and very busy. I came home from somewhere on the day of the match and tried to tune into GaGa for the result. Poor reception, then I finally tuned into the game, awaited the score as I knew it was close to the final whistle. 1-0 to the Arsenal I began to sing, as the commentator announced it. After a few minutes he said something like 'time running out', and followed with Bergy being the scorer. I called out to her that she got the scorer and result if not the score. Then-and this is the 'twit' part-it was announced that Arsenal were going in at HT 1-0 up! I was unaware that we were a late KO, I had been out of the loop working away in town.I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I wanted the three points, but the bet was still alive. The second half saw us score again and at 3-1 with a winning bet at stake we bombarded them. I was convinced more goals would follow. Then Grimandi saw red and we played out a 3-1 victory. She pulled around £90 and it was such a buzz-all due to the confusion and misunderstandings, along with the whole novelty of it, (and the three points). Good old Bergy, good old 3-1, good old Arsenal!

  104. Westlower

    Aug 18, 2014, 12:37 #55480

    @Badarse, A 1/10(9.1%) ratio is very good in predicting correct scores. The banks wont pay you that much interest rate. I once had a hapless period where I backed AFC to win 2-1, alas it simply never happened. Worse than that, in our Invincible season I started to back us to lose once we were into the New Year, the logic being that we're due to lose anytime soon. You can only imagine how much money I lost as I don't have many small bets. Top prize goes to julesd, who predicted Keown would be first goalscorer on an away trip to Forest. It must have been the only time Martin scored the first & only goal of the game. She won a bottle of red wine from our hosts for her foresight. I backed AFC to draw with Palace at 5/1 but I retrieved the situation by backing AFC at 6/4 when we went a goal behind. That is my idea of the ideal football match when AFC come from behind to win as the odds get exaggerated. AFC were 1/4 before kick off.

  105. BADARSE

    Aug 18, 2014, 11:22 #55477

    An illuminating post Gunner be proud. Food for thought. I too on a broader basis think that we take and bring our personalities to perhaps all things. Arteta is a victim of his personality, as are we all. His qualities are there to see though-if people can focus on them.

  106. Gunner be proud

    Aug 18, 2014, 11:14 #55476

    On balance i would suggest that Arteta is perhaps one of the best professionals around and has been for many years. Always an excellent attitude and seems a very sound man to me.He has adapted to the role hes been given without complaint and to the best of his ability. It is right though that his best work (as i recall it) when at Everton was in a slightly more creative, though still deeper lying position, so the role he plays now is different. I think where he struggles a little is that he lacks a bit of aggression at times which results from his personality and relatively slighter frame than many players in holding positions. What has to be accepted is that Mr Wenger doesn't like to play a type of player who simply 'sits' in an area just in front his back 4 tasked with 'destroying'. Rightly or wrongly he places faith in his defenders in not needing such an 'additional defender'. When we had Gilberto who was a very good footballer and the nearest we have had to a DM in AWs time with us in my view, he was never just a sitter of this ilk that some of the posters on here call for now. I think if there is a fault in the mix of the many midfield men that we have, its down to the lack of a Gilberto, Ray Parlour or Brian Talbot type performer, rather than lacking a sitter with little else to his game. I might be wrong of course but i cant see Mr Wenger changing his view on the game to enable a more brutish sitter to claim a place in his team? It risks red and yellow cards and takes the emphasis away from the more attacking game that he favours. Im not sure the rules and the way the game is refereed these days allows for these Gattuso types to thrive anymore does it?

  107. BADARSE

    Aug 18, 2014, 11:09 #55475

    Ah, Mandrake, the verse resonated with your style, good to have you spooning thoughts again. Thank you for the compliment also. '3-o against Palace'. Quite a few years ago I went to Highbury and a promotional team were handing out tiny cakes with an Arsenal badge on them, (it was near the Arsenal tube station if anyone can remember). I was given a few and specifically carried one home that evening to our little grandson. We'd guessed the score that game, and our grandson Charlie, nailed an exact score. The next morning I made a big thing of him guessing the score line and said, 'I award you the cake!' From then on the three of us guess each game. It is surprisingly difficult to name a precise score. We normally manage at best around half a dozen each per season, one in ten 24601? The Palace game saw Charlie saying 3-0, myself 2-0, and my wife 2-1-she won the cake, (and only the first game of the season). Charlie was a little cavalier based on the week before, I was more cautious, but thought it would be tight, my wife's guess proved how she interpreted the game correctly. If we allow ourselves to 'dream', (but perhaps unrealistic, if not impossible dreams), we are prone to disappointment. Some may then translate those disappointments into irritation, then anger or spite. Does that sound a little familiar?

  108. Gunner be proud

    Aug 18, 2014, 9:56 #55474

    An expectation of a 3 goal win versus a team who finished last season like Palace did is never the best of ideas and regrettably it seems to be the type of expectation that many of our fans have harboured for quite some years. Its fanciful to do so as Arsenal, decent side as we are aren't a team who can be banked upon to dispatch such sides with aplomb and we are not going to be for some time i suspect. Palace, nor any away team i venture don't make a priority of 'entertaining' the home support. They played well i thought though we just about deserved to inch home in the end with an eye on the forthcoming fixtures midweek and next week end. COYG

  109. Mandrake

    Aug 18, 2014, 9:39 #55472

    Like it BADARSE twas me at 9.02.

  110. BADARSE

    Aug 18, 2014, 9:32 #55470

    I shuffled around, and limped a bit, my head in hands, in head no wit. Spiked heart with thorns, yet still it beat, mouth dry and fixed on withered teat. Darkened images clouding my brain, gnarled knuckles a-knocking once again. I crave relief and seek respite, and slink away out of the light. Unhappy with the world and all it brings. Lock away my dreams and other things. Stand on tip-toe-scream at the night. This scary place with encompassing fright. I want it all and yell out loud. I look around where is the crowd? Just standing alone on edge of time. This poor lost soul reduced to mime. Good old Arsenal.

  111. chris dee

    Aug 18, 2014, 9:24 #55469

    Don't quite understand how any committed supporter anyone can have 'us down for three'and looking forward to a' relaxing afternoon'. If you have been watching football for more than five minutes you will know what nonsense those thoughts are.

  112. The Dark Moonie

    Aug 18, 2014, 9:02 #55468

    I walk the face of earth once more, a mindless puppet, my strings are torn. the creaky bones, the bad eyesight, yet the chance to turn wrong to right. wars-a-waging, old mans guilt, the worlds now on more then just a tilt. parents weeping, children slain, bloody thoughts, fear will reign. I look in the shadows, a creature did lurk, he whispered to me, hiding a smirk. "Thou shalt be killed if thee can't find, the demon lurking in thou mind." So off I ventured, to quench my thirst, of corpses piled with hearts-a-burst. And on that quest what did I see? The Dark Moonie Path Of Destiny

  113. Westlower

    Aug 18, 2014, 9:00 #55467

    Agree with you Joe that Calum Chambers is a good back up at CB although I'd be surprised & disappointed if another CB isn't signed by the end of next week. Debuchy is a better attacking FB than Sagna, but for him we wouldn't have scored a late winner. We wont see the best of Alexis until he's acclimatised to the PL style of play & to the different interpretation of the rules by UK refs. Contrary to those who believe Arteta's legs have gone, here are the stats for ground covered on Saturday: Ramsey 11.9km, Chamakh 11.5km, Ledley 11.2km, Arteta 11.1km, Debuchy 11.1km. Latest PL odds ; CFC 7/4, Man C 9/4, AFC 5/1, Man U 8/1, Liverpool 10/1, Sours 50/1.

  114. Sunn

    Aug 18, 2014, 8:30 #55466

    I note that Bacary did not feature in the ManC game who played Gael at right back again. Any one knows if he is injured?

  115. BADARSE

    Aug 18, 2014, 8:23 #55465

    I really enjoyed reading that, thank you Joe.