Anti-Semitism at Arsenal away games

An open letter to my fellow Arsenal supporters...



Anti-Semitism at Arsenal away games

Away fans – A few persist with racist abuse (NB - Generic image)


Dear fellow Gooners,

I am writing this letter to you following my experience at the recent Premier League fixture away at Everton. I have waited until a couple of days after the game to write this because if I hadn't have done so this would have simply become an incoherent and angry rant, which is not my intention. The points made in this letter are extremely important so please stick with it all the way through, it will take no more than a few minutes of your day.

I have been attending away games for a few years and started going regularly last season. I want to preface this letter by saying I find the majority of my fellow fans to be great people who are dedicated to our team and provide amazing support to the players all across the country, week in and week out, come rain or shine. Anyone who regularly attends away matches will be aware that there is a sizeable section of the Arsenal away support who take great delight in singing derogatory songs about Tottenham. As a die-hard Arsenal fan I love the rivalry with Tottenham and I am perfectly happy for us to sing about hating them as much as we possibly can; it's all part of being a Gooner!

However, a problem arises when this hatred of Tottenham slips so seamlessly into despicable and vitriolic anti-Semitism. Once again, anyone who attends away games will know it is standard procedure to hear derogatory songs about Jews, under the pretence that it isn't about Jews, it's about Tottenham. For example, the 'we hate Tottenham' song is beautiful because of its simplicity; I love it! It says exactly what we want to say without any ambiguity. However, each time it is sung it is followed by a chorus of the 'y-word'. I don't want this letter to become a debate about the use of this word because it has been done to death and is a conversation for another day. In fact, I have come to accept that this word will be used to describe Tottenham fans and I have perhaps naively convinced myself that the fans who sing it don't understand what it means. It is easier for me to pretend these supporters are ignorant rather than anti-Semitic, even if I know deep down that probably isn't true.

If you haven't already guessed I am a Jewish Arsenal fan and both those things are extremely important parts of my identity. That's right folks, not every Jew in North London is a Tottenham fan! Up until the Everton away match, the example I gave above was the main example of anti-Semitism I have heard at Arsenal away games, although there are others. Despite hearing it at every single away game I have attended, I have managed to block it out for the most part and it hasn't soured my experience of going to support my team. That isn't to say it's ok, just that the familiarity of it has numbed me to the pain it should probably cause me.

However, I now come to the game against Everton where the veil of the 'y-word' was dropped and the anti-Semitism that lies beneath it came storming to the surface for all to see. It was completely undeniable such was its lack of subtlety. This was not directed at Tottenham; this was aimed squarely and unapologetically at the Jews. The chant occurred inside the terrace area around 15 minutes before kick-off, where regular away Gooners congregate to sing until we go and find our seats a few minutes before kick-off. Up until Saturday this had always been my favourite part of the away-day experience because it brings us all together as a community to share our passion for the Arsenal. On Saturday I was happily joining in with various songs about our players, our club and also about how much we hate Tottenham. However, for the first time ever I removed myself from this pre-match ritual such was my shock and disgust at what I heard. The lyrics to the chant I heard (another regular away-day song) are below and I make no apology for using the exact words they used; I need to in order for you to understand why this affected me so much. Despite the song being a common one, there was a slight twist I have never heard before, which I have put in brackets in order to highlight.

(To the tune of 'She'll be coming round the mountain'...)
"We'll be running round Tottenham with our willies hanging out, we'll be running round Tottenham with our willies hanging out...
Singing I've got a foreskin, haven't you? (F***ing Jew)
Singing I've got a foreskin, haven't you? (F***ing Jew)
Singing I've got a foreskin, I've got a foreskin, I've got a foreskin, haven't you? (F***ing Jew)"

I attended my first Arsenal match at Highbury at the age of 7, I am now 25. For all those years Arsenal has felt like something I belonged to, where I was unconditionally accepted simply because I was a Gooner and nothing else mattered.

At Goodison Park, I suddenly felt like I didn't belong. I felt like an outsider looking in. I realised these chants are not directed at Tottenham, this is simply an excuse for people to verbally attack Jews.

I know people will say to me that I should ignore these people because they are a minority of idiots who do not represent the club. With all due respect that is of absolutely no consolation to me at all. Why should I and other Jewish Gooners travel across the country (sometimes the continent) every other week to support our team and accept being the subjects of racist abuse from those who are supposed to be on our side? Why should a section of the Arsenal fan-base be made to feel like they don't belong simply because of the religion they are born into?

And here is the key question for me... why is nothing being done about the blatant anti-Semitism heard every single week at Arsenal away matches? There were at least 50 or 60 people chanting the lyrics I wrote above and it was met with complete apathy by everyone in the stadium. Nobody looked disgusted by it, nobody said or did anything. It seems that racist abuse towards Jews is just not seen as a big deal. There were a number of stewards and police officers standing yards away from this group of people and none of them did anything at all.

You may ask me why I didn't approach this group of people and ask them to stop... but ask yourself what you would do if a large crowd of people were chanting racist slurs about you? I think everyone knows the sensible thing to do in that situation is to remove yourself from it, which is what I did. I should not have to put myself in a situation where I may be in danger in order for people to understand that anti-Semitic chanting is unacceptable.

It is time that someone stood up and said something about this because it has been swept under the carpet and accepted as par for the course for too long. A lot of us speak regularly to each other about how racism has no place in football, yet when we hear blatant racist chanting inside the terraces we do nothing about it. It is time to take a stand and I hope this letter can be a starting point.

My fellow Gooners, here is what I am asking of you. If you hear anti-Semitic chanting (or any racist chanting) at a game, don't be the person who stands back and does nothing. Let's put pressure on stewards and the police to eject these people from the stadium. Perhaps if this happened they would think twice about repeating their behaviour at future fixtures. Perhaps they would understand that racism is something the football community takes seriously.

How many of you were disgusted by the leniency of Luis Suarez' punishment when he racially abused Patrice Evra? How many of you were dismayed with the way John Terry was allowed to get away with the same offence against Anton Ferdinand? For those of you who answered 'yes' to those questions; how many of you hear racist chanting on a weekly basis and do nothing about it? We cannot castigate the English FA for not taking racism seriously, when we are guilty of doing exactly the same! It needs to be a joint effort from everyone in the game, including the fans.

It is completely unacceptable for any Arsenal fan to go to a game and feel like they do not belong to our community. At the end of the day, we are all Gooners and nothing else should matter. Let's be the club that sets the standard.

Yours faithfully,

Alex Kaye


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88
comments

  1. Theresa James

    Sep 14, 2014, 9:28 #57223

    It can be amusing listening to some of the songs but I wholeheartedly agree with Alex ,the anti Semitic chants are vile.Come on Arsenal ,we are better than that!

  2. Flu ridden

    Sep 13, 2014, 19:04 #57203

    No one should be made to feel alienated amongst our support. Though I would like to ask Alex this, has he said anything insulting to one individual or group of people at a football match?

  3. Highbury Boy

    Sep 12, 2014, 17:00 #57169

    Very sad and depressing article Alex. Ironic really as Arsenal almost certainly have more Jewish fans than Spurs,going back to the 1930s when sons of Jewish immigrants became interested in football. This coincided with Arsenal's first successful period. Their sons and grandsons now follow Arsenal. The second really successful period owes much as the Editor has said to 2 big Arsenal fans: Danny Fiszman and David Dein. Dein was the director responsible for hiring George Graham and eventually getting his way to sign Arsene Wenger. In between those managers it was he ,according to Ian Wright, who was responsible for Dennis Bergkamp joining Arsenal.

  4. maguiresbridge gooners

    Sep 12, 2014, 13:09 #57155

    I might have mentioned this on here before it seems relevant again, about meeting two young lads at the Emirates about five years ago and we got chatting and they told me they were from Israel, i assumed they were at university or studying in London but no they had flown in from Israel just for the game it was their first time to see Arsenal. How would these two lads have felt standing beside they're fellow gooners with them songs being sung.

  5. QuartzGooner

    Sep 12, 2014, 11:37 #57153

    Whomever this conveniently named "Goonerton" is it appears to be someone from the Forum with a deeply held grudge. But without the courage to even say who they are, how pathetic. Well yes I am going to argue against you for spreading an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory about control of the world media. It is daft anyway, a brief look at Channel Four news in the recent Gaza war would show a very strong anti-Israel bias. And yes, if you sing something that attacks me I am going to argue against it.

  6. arnie kaplan

    Sep 12, 2014, 10:45 #57150

    aston villa supporter from Birmingham...visited west ham/Chelsea...went into pubs with daughter before games..same situation..disgusting..im with you all the way..regards

  7. BADARSE

    Sep 11, 2014, 16:41 #57117

    OldSchool, thanks for the input, you are also aware that the beauty of language, especially the English language is that words morph and alter their meaning. So despite Gooner meaning a hooligan in the 70's anyone nowadays calling themselves a Gooner isn't doing that at all. They are declaring a deep allegiance or empathy with AFC, no more, no less. @Goonerton, I can appreciate any frustration you may have. Today we have to dot 'I's' and cross 'T's' whenever anyone in power demands. Irritating, and blind establishment values don't sit comfortably with me, so nor do they with you, seemingly, that's good! Pick your battles, as I do. Don't get side-tracked if you can help it, don't get mislead, try to take on all points of view. Weigh the arguments. Insist on individuality and independence, but never at another's liberty or feelings. We might finish quite close in what we would strive to change or defeat, in the long run. Never be afraid to seek advice or reassurance. I know a fair bit but often get the thumbs up from my grandchildren-they are good sounding boards. Actually 'thumbs up' meant death, Hollywood changed all that though.

  8. OldSchool

    Sep 11, 2014, 15:07 #57113

    I doubt if the fellas singing the song even gave a thought to the wider issue of racism or religionism. It's just an anti spurs song that was being sung in 1975 when I first started going. I have sung it in the past and all of my mates have and can categorically state that none of us are anti Semitic. It's just a comedic song, sung to have fun. As for the word gooner this was the name given to Arsenal hooligans in the late seventies, early eighties so next time you're singing "ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner" you're declaring yourself a hooligan.

  9. Goonerton

    Sep 11, 2014, 14:02 #57104

    QuartzGooner, you are no MOD. You just sit there to blaze down on anybody who says anything against what you agree with. My post wasn't racist. I'm just saying how sick i am of you and your world domineering so called writers and mass media people always ready to jump all over somebody because they have a different view and are not crying in their soup about sensitive we must to a certain group of people who seem to have so much power worldwide. Now your telling us what and what we can sing? Then you put your spin on it and try to demonised any and all that have a different view or are simply sick to death of treding on egg shells. Next time it's best to agree and not ask questions. That's how you like it.

  10. maguiresbeidge gooner

    Sep 11, 2014, 12:59 #57096

    My post,60345 even more relevant now.

  11. BADARSE

    Sep 11, 2014, 11:55 #57088

    Well jeff there is no point in actually discussing the points with you as you are a little narrow and more than a little naive on the subject, and overall approach to all the connected issues and ramifications. As with Bard's hollow personal post the other day it speaks volumes of the attitudes and beliefs you hold, which explains so much in the garbled and confused view you have of AFC. @ 24601, I M NE1 U N GBP R. I M AFC N U2 R2.

  12. GBP

    Sep 11, 2014, 10:38 #57086

    RDT 4 - ha. .... and the point of your post is? More empty piffle. Take a day off from it. Close the door on your way out will you.

  13. David

    Sep 11, 2014, 10:01 #57084

    Not sure what it is about football that brings the worst out of some people, but on the train on the way home from the FA Cup triumph, a couple of fans started up a chorus of 'Give me George in my heart...No surrender to the IRA'. Haven't heard it since the mid 80s. Utterly insane and very sad. The good news is that no-one joined in with them. The bad news is that they didn't look old enough to remember that song the first time round, so it must've been handed down.

  14. RDT - 4

    Sep 11, 2014, 9:33 #57083

    GBP - You're embarrassing yourself now. You're a grown adult not a 15 year old girl.

  15. Gary595

    Sep 11, 2014, 9:10 #57082

    Is there and chance you could all just leave the club immediately. Latte drinking divs.

  16. perrylgooner

    Sep 11, 2014, 9:02 #57081

    Yeah everyone congregate and grass up your own supporters. What a ridiculous statement to make. How about you raise the issue personally if you've got a problem. Handing your own supporters over to the authorities and trying to cause issues is an absolute disgrace!

  17. GBP

    Sep 11, 2014, 8:32 #57080

    Westlower - AFC should thank its lucky stars that we ve got Arsene Wenger as the boss and thankfully, the Boardroom does. Long may the man remain doing the smashing job he does. Hes bright, hes an eye for players, hes witty and he makes players better. Hes loyal. Hes urbane. His players all love him to a man even after they've left us. The whole footballing World respects him and so do i. Most of all, he loves Arsenal. Like any Coach he has his weaknesses but they pale into insignificance set vis whats he does as his constant success shows clearly. Nearly every Club would want Arsene Wenger as its Coach to replace the one they have should he choose to leave us and thats pretty much well known and accepted. I d love to meet him and have an hour. Quite what these detractors on here think about and what motivates them to think it and hound him down is beyond me totally. The entire Arsene out/in argument is totally false and artificial and in truth quite why those few of us on here who back him to the hilt bother with these on here peddling their hollow and vindictive diatribes who dont is a minus point against us!

  18. Torbay gooner

    Sep 11, 2014, 8:28 #57079

    Good, but depressing article Alex. Would like to think that if enough people on the day voiced their objections to this moronic chanting, the stewards/police would have to get involved. Once some are identified, ejected and have subsequently received their banning order it might make the remainder tread more carefully.

  19. GBP

    Sep 11, 2014, 8:19 #57078

    Cyril. very good comment and have to agree with you. On the Spurs, looks like they're possibly off up to Northants to live for a while. The first time in their history they ll have a neighbour who they can compete with !

  20. Westlower

    Sep 11, 2014, 8:09 #57077

    Summary from the Metro paper on what sort of Arsenal fan are you? AAA (Anti-Arsenal Arsenal); These fans refuse to see the club doing anything right. Westlower verdict - The enemy within. WOB (Wenger Out Brigade); Awaiting the chance to call for his head once again. Westlower verdict - Frustrated coaches & prone to throw their toys out of their prams on the bad days. Can be disruptive, splitting support among the fan base. Black sheep of the family. AKB (Arsene Knows Best) He knows better than most of us. AKB's won't allow any criticism of the club, manager & players. Westlower verdict - The glue that holds AFC together. Good eggs, salt of the earth, irreplaceable, of sound & correct judgement, solid citizens. DCABA (Dont Care About Acronyms); Silent majority who get ignored & forgotten about when it comes to fights among Arsenal fans. Westlower verdict - Who are ya? Probably run of the mill normal folk who don't like to cause problems. Lifeblood of AFC. Which category do you fit in????

  21. Pete

    Sep 11, 2014, 7:46 #57076

    I couldn't care less about all the other phobias in football but I've always loathed racism.

  22. JS

    Sep 11, 2014, 4:14 #57075

    Jewish and a season ticket holder since I was 12 - I've never taken offense to the song you reference because I don't view it as directed at Jews - for me its entirely directed at Spurs fans who identify themselves as '****'. If you asked those who sing that song if they hated 'jews' or Spurs fans, I would expect them to suggest the latter rather than 'both. I don't condone it and would prefer it out of our repertoire but I think you need to look back over the last 10 years and see how far we have (on the whole) come with general attitude to racist language and behaviour at the ground and at away games. We're not perfect but getting better.

  23. Ozzie

    Sep 11, 2014, 3:49 #57074

    Take a pinch of white man - wrap it up in black skin - add a touch of blue blood - and a little bitty bit of red Indian boy. Curly latin kinkies - mixed with yellow chinkies - if you lump it all together - well, you got a recipe for a get along scene - oh, what a beautiful dream - if it could only come true, you know, you know - what we need is a great big melting pot...:)

  24. Matthew Bazell

    Sep 11, 2014, 0:02 #57073

    It's not racist chanting.

  25. Cyril

    Sep 11, 2014, 0:00 #57072

    Very topical and on point. My pal and I were at Sunderland away to see Henry's last goal in the 2 -1 win and we were in the bar area listening to as follows: marouane chamakh, he's not white , he' s not black, Marouane chamakh!!! That must of cheered him up no end. My understanding of 'gooners' was to do with the hooligan element. My further understanding also is that fans don't tend to add the offensive word at the end of the spurs song as much. It still is there but no so prevalent. It is not right at all. To add, spurs fans should perhaps think about the 'moniker' they use as it may encourage people to think it's ok. It clearly upsets people so I think Tottenham football club need to take the lead on this one. Many of my spurs mates sing '****s'. Strange phenomenon , however much spurs fans make it identity. It's a serious matter as it is in the end very pernicious behaviour, but the fuel is handed down by spurs fans. Sorry, but it that is where it is at!

  26. Asif

    Sep 10, 2014, 23:53 #57071

    Why are we singing songs about willies anyway. Do we forget children attend games? Are we not ashamed? "Love for your brother what you love for yourself"

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 10, 2014, 23:27 #57070

    DJ, good one, a good job of lightening the mood of a serious article, then someone comes along and spoils it.

  28. jeff wright

    Sep 10, 2014, 22:37 #57069

    Badarse, a very lefty old fashioned view of what used to be called capitalism when you were marching on your futile angry demos donkeys years ago protesting about this that or the other.Left,excuse the pun,to you lot we would all be speaking Russian now. A lame attempt by you to dress up this discredited bankers rule the world is not going to make it true . If the bankers did rule the USA then Obama would ever have been elected in to office . They are all Republicans! The US government is funded by taxes,ditto the UK one,our now thankfully departed Brown led New Labour the worst government in history had to bail the bankers out after they went bust using tax-payers money .The problem with you lefties is that don't really understand financial issues that's why your governments that you elect always make a hash of things economically. You are right about the West needing the state of Israel though ,their politicians maybe basta*rds but at least they are our ones. Anyway ,my last words on this tbh I find politics one big yawn bring back the football is my advice - and pronto !

  29. Andy1886

    Sep 10, 2014, 22:34 #57068

    I wonder how many 'fans' chanting this remember the contributions of David Dein and especially Danny Fiszman (who was the son of a Belgian Jewish couple who fled the Nazis during World War II) to our great club? Pure ignorance.

  30. Frank

    Sep 10, 2014, 22:34 #57067

    The question that needs to be asked is why the club is doing nothing about the anti semetic chants.Just wait till saturdays game and hear the chants ring around the ground.And the club will cover their ears.If nothing is done the braindead will continue their moronic chants.

  31. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 10, 2014, 22:23 #57066

    Are these are the great away fans we always keep hearing about? the same fans who always get and got first dib's at Cup final tickets, as you say Alex the majority are great, but it just takes a sizeable section of halfwits to give every body a bad name. It must be hateful (for want of a much better word)and leave you fuming to have to listen to fellow gooners insulting your heritage, parentage, do these halfwits not realise that Arsenal have a Jewish following also, and indeed who could be standing next to them like you do yourself, songs like that are completely unacceptable. Great away fans my arse.

  32. kilkenny cat

    Sep 10, 2014, 22:05 #57065

    Arsenal has always been a cosmopolitain club on and off the pitch. Never had mass racist problems like chelsea,leeds or millwall to name a few. But you will always get morons who will spout garbage without thinking ahout it. Some fans will see these songs as anti spurs not anti semetic,some will mean what they are singing. Like one post said,the best thing to do is to shut the morons up yourselves. Nothing like fan pressure and the majority dont want our clubs name dragged through the dirt.

  33. BADARSE

    Sep 10, 2014, 21:51 #57064

    jeff wright, Wall Street runs the White House. The banks are too big, influential and powerful for any one President to dismantle. They have virtually total control, and the die is cast-they always will have. Politics, as in the Scottish Independence referendum is dictated to by finances, and the power men. Simple, succinct and subtle. Your view like Ron's, of left and right, is as outmoded as the dinosaurs, sorry but you have to unlearn all that drivel. Israel in the middle east is a too important strategic stronghold for just and fair rule and considerations. It must be held at all costs by the west, that is their simple remit. Everything else is so much candyfloss. As for you AMG, a huge pat on the back, your currency just soared.

  34. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Sep 10, 2014, 21:46 #57063

    There is a big Jewish Arsenal following and this has grown in the last 40 years. The chants have been around for a long long time and have always made me feel sick. We can surely slag off the filth with gusto with resorting to racism. Apart from these incidents the Arsenal fans have generally been some of the most tolerant and inclusive in the country. I hope that's not changing. P. S. Where the f**k is Wenger?

  35. kilkenny cat

    Sep 10, 2014, 20:47 #57062

    Any form of racism or bigotry are totally unacceptable. Banter is one thing,but nasty intimidation is vile disgusting and ignorant. I have always treated everyone the same. Race,creed,colour or nationality are not important. Being a decent person is and there is good and bad everywhere.

  36. JAMIE

    Sep 10, 2014, 20:32 #57061

    Bard-More likely the discontented moonies would be involved in this type of craziness than the peace loving AKB's and you know it.

  37. Frannydav

    Sep 10, 2014, 20:03 #57060

    Excellent article- it should be forwarded to the club!

  38. Bard

    Sep 10, 2014, 19:57 #57059

    Wow some of these later posts are seriously worrying. Jamie, Herbert. Tom you have to get a grip. Bottom line there are no excuses for anti semitic chants. Jamie I respect your view on sheep as you are the epitome of a sheep blindly following the stays quo and Tom you are entitled to your view but the that whole issue you refer to is massively complicated. This is not a place debate the whole Middle East saga. Herbert the stupidity of your argument is doesnt warrant comment

  39. JAMIE

    Sep 10, 2014, 19:43 #57057

    According to wikipedia Arsenal fans tend to be Anti semitic and Homophobic.Yet very kind to foreigners in general and also friendly towards women.

  40. And they responded...

    Sep 10, 2014, 19:21 #57056

    Giroud Sucks!

  41. JAMIE

    Sep 10, 2014, 19:06 #57055

    People in general are just like sheep particularly football supporters.They all follow each other and chant these chants about Jews,blacks etc.Then somebody tells them they're wrong so they all repent and stop doing it,not that they're sorry but they don't want to look mean and not be a repentant sheep.If you're smart like myself then you never get embroiled in this nonsense in the first place,but like I said most folk are stupid and follow whatever they're told to do,how do you think they get these sheep to commit such atrocities in time of war...What I'm saying is that most people are just dumb and ready to believe what their foolish minds want them to and the majority of people say, 'if I lived in those times I would have never done such a thing'In reality they would have done exactly the same,because most people are stupid sheep..

  42. Herbert

    Sep 10, 2014, 18:48 #57054

    They weren't singing f***ing jew, they were sin ging like the song always has been sung Haven't you twice. This maybe hard to accept but the majority of our support isn't anti semitic but they are anti to****ham. If you go back 10-15 years the whole end would be singing the lyrics(the version sung) and not your interpretation of them. Now we are down to 50 or 60, in view of percentages that is progress beyound expectation, give it another few years and all the dinosaurs will be too old to go to football and we will be left with 30 somethings shaking hands with the oppostion and saying jolly good show...evolution!!!!!!

  43. Bard

    Sep 10, 2014, 18:11 #57053

    Great article Alex. The problem you raise is what to do about it? Its ok saying it has no place at the ground but how do you police it? the only caveat I would make is that it may be more to do with ignorance than the kind of anti semitic attitudes you get in public life. Having said that it is still totally unacceptable. Maybe the club could make a tannoy announcement condemning these chants and that those concerned will be evicted and have their season tickets removed. you can't catch them all but even a few would maybe make others think twice.

  44. GBP

    Sep 10, 2014, 17:37 #57052

    QG - Massive debate isnt it. Interesting though, until people get serious humps and then it always disintegrates ........ a bit like the day to day norm on here!! Jeffrey - its a debate thats far too intrinsic for left/right labelling i reckon. Can see why you say what you do though.

  45. RDT - 4

    Sep 10, 2014, 17:29 #57051

    I always thought the word 'Gooner' came from a large contingent of Scandinavian fans who were unable to say 'Gunner' properly.

  46. Mark

    Sep 10, 2014, 17:28 #57050

    Alex , can't you view these people for what they are . In all walks of life we come across others with different views , just live with it and move on . They are ignorant and if they realised they upset you maybe they would stop. I also think with this PLO thing you will get less sympathy .

  47. jeff wright

    Sep 10, 2014, 17:25 #57049

    Seeing how so many banks went bust awhile back and some are still struggling now it would appear they they couldn't organize the proverbial in a brewery,let alone run the world.Another silly old lefty theory this .The Chinese government is investing more money in the UK than anyone else now days and their agents don't wear boiler suits . What Chairman Mao would have made of it is anyone's guess. So you say you want a revolution well you can count me out would most likely have been his view.

  48. Hiccup

    Sep 10, 2014, 17:18 #57048

    There was an article on here about a year ago and something Mike alluded to, as to why do we even bother singing we hate Tottenham? A worthless insignificant entity, that indicates to them that they rile us. It's something you'd expect from a small club living in the shadow of someone they envy. Bit like Stoke's hatred of United. But United fans laugh it off. As I'm sure Spurs fans do. I cringe every time I hear 'stand up...' Why give them the time of day? Can you imagine if Spurs were on the box and every other song was 'we hate Arsenal' how we'd find it funny that we must be an envious pain in the backside to them.

  49. QuartzGooner

    Sep 10, 2014, 17:09 #57046

    GBP You will find that Jews such as myself will argue strongly against your point at 16:47 hours, but this discussion thread is not about that and needs a complex discussion, of which there have been several on the Forum section over the years. I guess (shrugs shoulders) that any such comment section will always get derailed.

  50. Old singing ****do

    Sep 10, 2014, 16:58 #57045

    Oh dear, welcome to modern football, just gets worse and worse with the new breed of fan

  51. GBP

    Sep 10, 2014, 16:47 #57043

    I dont think Goonerton means things as badly as his post reads really in fairness. He and im sure many ( maybe not the chanters) are aware these days that Israel the State and the true Jewish faith are well removed from each other and have been for decades. He has a point about World banks/money controllers though perhaps not one for on here in fairness given the ambit of the OP article.

  52. QuartzGooner

    Sep 10, 2014, 16:41 #57042

    Gooner.Ed has mailed me and has deleted Goonerton's comment, he apologised for it slipping through but he was unable to monitor the comments section this afternoon because of an important meeting. For those who want to discuss matters Arsenal and non-Arsenal further we have a flourishing and vivid Forum section on this website. The threads there are moderated so it is not a case of "Anything Goes" but we are as lenient as we can be within the rules of the Forum. It is free of charge to join, you just have to register an email address. There is a non-Arsenal section where all kinds of things are discussed, and for example we did have an Israel/Gaza thread running there that was heated but stayed within Forum rules.

  53. Mark Spur

    Sep 10, 2014, 16:31 #57040

    Become a Tottenham fan - it's better for you all around. From a proud Tottenham Jew

  54. unchives

    Sep 10, 2014, 16:18 #57039

    Arsenal are a very mixed ethnic club and have been since I can remember & I have been supporting them for 43 years so I have heard & seen many things that were much more intensely racist than what you have experienced. Racism is unacceptable, however it is difficult to police when you have 60,000 people to monitor. Why do you not just get your mobile phone out a record it and send the video clip to the club so that they can deal with it? Regarding Goonerton, I doubt that these chanting morons understand the deeper Zionist politics you are describing.

  55. DJ

    Sep 10, 2014, 16:13 #57038

    I personally don’t like when they chant the referee’s a w*****r because I’ve been known to flick through the ladies underwear section of Kays catalogues!

  56. AMG

    Sep 10, 2014, 16:08 #57037

    Completely agree Alex. We are Arsenal fans regardless of colour, religion, sexuality or social background. 1 big family, which nobody should feel excluded from. We have a worrying tendency to lose sight of these guiding principles sometimes, even on this site when I read people having sly digs at Wenger's French origin, or the Ozil family's gastarbeiter status, or even recent derogation of the Irish. We all must make a conscious effort to avoid alienating sections of our own Gooner family and indeed the wider football family. Thanks for speaking up Alex.

  57. jeff wright

    Sep 10, 2014, 16:06 #57036

    British POW's in places such as Colditz did indeed call the German guards Goons or stooges so no hard to work out what the Brits were implying by calling these guards goons.These guards were not Nazi SS but ordinary German soldiers,many old ex-WI types. Those guards had nothing to do with the holocaust against the Jews. There used to be a comedy show called the The Goons back in the mists of time ,Peter Sellers ,Spike Milligan ,Harry Secombe were in it,these English ,Irish and a Welshman were hardly neo-Nazi's ! Gunners - Gooners the Arsenal version of the 70S football hooligans gangs adopted Gooners for their name . I was around back in those days and never heard the name Gooners until the 70s but as I recall it the spuds supporters were the ones who used it originally to mock us with. Some of their ones also called themselves Tottenham **** and even up until recently have done so wearing t-shirts with it on and displaying banners away in Europe with it on. Goonerton is obviously anti-Semitic and his zionist conspiracy theories are straight out of Mein Kamph. Siege heil !

  58. jabberwocky

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:41 #57035

    Dav - I'm not equating the two, just providing examples of individuals not being responsible for the actions of nations they are from (past or present) purely because they are from that nation. So I feel no more responsible for the torturing of the Mau Mau, the crimes committed in Malay or the massive part played in the transatlantic slave trade purely because I hold a British passport - much in the same way a Jewish person shouldn't be held responsible for the IDF bombing Gaza. Racism is bad, end of - politics is another matter and can be debated on an individual level with an individual who has individual views.

  59. j

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:36 #57034

    Made all the more ridiculous when you consider that we have a larger jewish fanbase than sp*rs do! In a world of limitless opportunity to educate oneself, we still see this kind of ignorance..., pathetic and utterly un-befitting of our great club. If I hear this in the future, I know what I am doing, challenge the people saying it. I suggest the same for everybody else. The onus is on us to police our own crowds, to make it clear that this is unacceptable in any way. And to any idiots reading this that may have sung such a song.., please attempt to act like a decent human being in the future. Thank you.

  60. Dav

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:35 #57033

    I take exception to the Bristish Empire being equated with Nazi Germany. The Empire did a lot of good. Many older Indians feel India would be better off under Bristish rule today. We put an end to Suttee (look it up) and generally thought we were helping the people we had conquered though of course exploitation was the number 1 motivation

  61. BADARSE

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:33 #57032

    Dav, I think I acknowledged that as part of the passage through time and circumstance that this word took to arrive at this point in history, a worthy Arsenal fan. Thank goodness for people like you jabberwocky, for 'twasn't always brillig, nor did the slithy toves always gyre and gimble in the wabe, but I have it on good authority that all mimsy were the borogoves, and occasionally the mome raths outgrabe.

  62. Dav

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:31 #57031

    Remember also that Gooner as far as I know was first used by Arsenal's hooli element

  63. jabberwocky

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:20 #57030

    Goonerton - First, if there were racist chants about black people I and many of the other people on here (I would assume) would be just as disgusted. Racism is never ok, and engaging in a race to the bottom by saying one ethnic group has it worse than another is not the answer - racism is bad, as is any form of discrimination (homophobia, misogyny, etc etc), and it needs to be stamped out no matter who the target is. Secondly - these chants aren't directed at Binyamin Netanyahu, or Ariel Sharon, or Nathan de Rothschild so stop this sickening equating of Jews with the policies of the state of Israel or some bugbear of an imagined Elders of Zion fantasy. I find the actions of the state of Israel deplorable, however that's where it ends, I would no more blame a singular Jew or the wider Jewry for the actions of Israel than I would a German for the actions of the Nazis or myself and fellow Brits for the disgusting actions of the British Empire. I've read some of your posts (if you're the same Goonerton from ACLF) and you seem like a nice enough guy, don't debase yourself by sinking into this antagonistic and frankly racist codswallop. Let's kick racism out of football, and first let's kick racism out of our club.

  64. Dav

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:17 #57029

    BADARSE - yet it's a fact the Goon was used as a nickname for German guards.

  65. BADARSE

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:16 #57028

    Just a rider to my previous post. The POW's did call the guards Goons, a way of hitting back, and well done to them. However the thrust of my point is that words' meanings change. Our language is the biggest, and most expressively beautiful of all languages, it is also organic. It evolves due to forces outside itself and grows the richer for it. A term first invented to describe a child's silly cartoon character, a term used as an insult by POW's but an invigorating and uplifting connotation nonetheless, then to describe the group who changed humour for ever, taking it almost to an art form, then to recognise the worth of some Arsenal players and fans-finally as a 'one in the eye', for the Sours fans, because their taunt backfired big time. Come on you Gooners!

  66. charlie

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:10 #57027

    I am a Jewish Arsenal supporter and I regularly go to away games, my first being 1983 when I was 14. This particular song is not new, has been sung for many years as have others that go further than just adding ****do to the end of the song. Personally, I ignore it as I feel it is aimed at spurs and their supporters who are regularly referred to as the jews as well as ****do. Do I like it? No. Do I feel it is result of not understanding? Yes would I like to see something done about it? Yes Will it happen or stop altogether? No I have been at White hart Lane when the Arsenal supporter in front of me spent the whole game with his right arm raised in a Nazi salute. when I and other Arsenal supporters told him to stop his response was aggressive and threatening. The stewards didn't are and nor did the police. This was the game that sol first went back and the y other issues on their mind but their response was still truly pathetic. I remember being at Watford on St Georges Day and 2 BNP/NF Arsenal supporters started singing songs that both Irish and black Arsenal supporters took offence too. Again stewards and police did nothing but the offended Arsenal supporters took matters into their own hands and that resolved the problem. There are several other times when Arsenal supporters have offended other Arsenal supporters that I have witnessed over the years and I feel it is not limited to hatred of Spurs and the fact is that we have our own share of bigoted supporters. Thankfully not as many as at certain other clubs and I love the fact that our away support is very mixed and that is the Arsenal way.

  67. Caggie

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:07 #57026

    What a great letter, thank you for sharing your experience and feelings. As a gay Gooner I was delighted with the recent rainbow laces video and have always been proud of Arsenal's inclusiveness. This letter saddens me greatly. Lets keep this kind of ignorance out of our club.

  68. chris

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:05 #57025

    really robin, shop your own fans. your joking. are you piers morgan because thats exactly what he did and he is a prick for doin it

  69. BADARSE

    Sep 10, 2014, 15:00 #57024

    Goon comes from our friendly Nazi, Walt Disney. His cartoon characters were Goons, dim-witted little creatures. Then Spike, Peter, Harry and Michael became the 'Goons', who were also dimwits. The Sours corrupted the word Gunner to Gooner and aimed it right back at us as an insult. We neutralised it and in using it ourselves added a new dimension. It is a badge of honour, bestowed on special fans and players, not all merit it in the eyes of many. It can however be a generic term for an Arsenal fan. No problem with it, no offence. If only it was convenient to put a new spin on other hateful and insulting words/terms. @Goonerton you speak for yourself, don't include me, my fellow fans, or my club, in your narrow-minded attitude. Politically I may agree with the facts you speak of, but there we part company. No excuse chum.

  70. Rob (Everton fan)

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:58 #57023

    Excellent article. The issue you have is that the type of 'supporter' who chants that sort of thing, wont be the type to read an eloquent, informed article like yours. I think, unfortunately, every team have racist supporters and it us often emphasised on away days. I know that this is the case with Everton. Until games are supervised in the right way and supporters are identified and banned, it will go on. Recent documentaries have shown stewards and police simply aren't interested. As a fan, you cant really be expected to turn on your own fans... Again, I've seen this happen and its not pretty. Why should you have to? Keep reporting it, write to your club, be more vocal. Best of luck.

  71. Dav

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:52 #57022

    thanks for that info QuartzGooner, unfortunately it lends more credence to my theory doesn't it. It just seems like too much of a coincidence or an opportunity that the vindictive could not resist

  72. Barry Webb

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:50 #57021

    This type of chanting has no place at any football ground, no matter where it is. I consider Arsenal to be one of the more inclusive clubs and anyone who wants to be part of the tribe (because that's sort of what it is) is welcome no matter what their ethnicity. Arsenal FC needs to sort this problem out. They can write to the away supporters. They know who they are by and large. They need to warn supporters they will be banned from the Emirates if they use racial or ethnic slurs in their chants. Arsenal need to write to the other 19 clubs and ask that additional stewards be allocated for the period pre-match when such chants are being sung. But you also need to speak up and other Arsenal supporters need to stand alongside you. I now live in the States but my last away game was at White Hart Lane. A truly frightening experience. Did I say anything to those more intend on intimidating those around them rather than watch the game? You bet I didn't. But fortunately, football and supporters have moved on from those brutal times and if I were there with you now, I would like to think that I have the courage to make my voice heard.

  73. BNG

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:48 #57020

    Have called our ugly neighbours either Spuds or the cock n ball boys for a long time instead of the Y word

  74. chris

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:45 #57019

    i can't believe this is the first time you have heard this chant.it's been around for years.i do understand your concerns about racism sexism anti-semism and the like and far be it from me to excuse or condone any of these activities. i have been attending arsenal matches for30 years, and have seen the change in both football and the fans who watch it. one thing remains a constant, passion. passion for the club and the passion of hatred. you refer to the fans as a community and that's where it all falls down. we don't all live in the same community, we are all different, jews arabs christians athiest black white asian etc with 1 thing in common. arsenal football club.some of the chants are offensive to me, or would be outside of being at a match. you may mock me but thats how i assess the match day experience. you can't tell me every spurs fan is jewish.if thats the case, they must also have arabic christian asian etc fans too. so for them to use the word **** army as they do must be offensive to the other cultures in their fanbase. do you hear them complaining? no, they probably sing it too even though it's against everything they believe religiously. arsenal fans are like family you get to see once in a while,and have never come across one that i would be afraid of because we are there for one reason.if i have offended you i apologise but that is the reality

  75. Dav

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:35 #57018

    >>@Dav. Gooner is a corruption of Gunner, and has nothing to do with Germany at all. - Post No. 60282<< yeah that's pretty much how I was shouted down last time. You know for a fact that some clever sod did not see any opportunity to make a sick joke and think it is only a play on the word Gunner rather than both? Just a coincidence then about the German guards...hmmmmm

  76. QuartzGooner

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:32 #57017

    Firstly, as Mod on the site I wonder how "Goonerton's" comment has been allowed to stay on here? It's just daft. Secondly, the word "Gooner" though a corruption of Gunner may well also have come from Goon because we had some fans who called themselves "The Goon Squad" in the late 1970's. I was a kid at the time so there will be others on the Forum section of this site who can comment more on that. Thirdly sadly there will be those who harbour vitriol. Some of the anti-Spurs chanting is just that at face value, for others it allows them to spread their hate. It shows no connection to our club who from the 1930's onwards have forged links with the local Jewish community and charitable initiatives, at a time when Spurs's directors allowed the Swastika to be flown over their ground. It does take a brave person to stand up to this at a ground but it has to be done, because we live a pressure cooker of a city where ethnic tensions of various kinds are rising rather than falling.

  77. Tony

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:30 #57016

    Unfortunately, this anti-Semitism seems business as usual for the typical Arsenal fan. No class at all with your lot.

  78. Tochukwu Akujobi

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:28 #57015

    Nice one, please lets join together in the fight against Anti-Semitism and racism generally.

  79. Mike

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:24 #57014

    I've been attending games regularly since 1968 and have always felt uncomfortable about songs like this. I had felt the last couple of seasons that the use of the y-word had noticably diminished and was conseqently pleased by this. However, this letter is a bit of a shock to the system but I can't help thinking that some people who have little interest in politics are using the Gaza predicament to justify an already existing racist attitude and in their own heads see this as acceptable 'banter' since it's directed at Spurs fans. I have two observations, the first considerably more important than the other. Firstly, people should be arrested, forcibly ejected and banned from football grounds for such behaviour - they are breaking the law, are out of step with modern, progressive thinking and our club should take a more responsible attitude. Secondly (and this too has bugged me for many years) why not spend more time singing positive songs about Arsenal rather than wasting half the game slagging off a team who have not been direct competitors for years - I'm sure this does little to encourage the players.

  80. Misheck mwirigi Anania

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:22 #57013

    Thanks,i am with you and what you experienced,heard definitely is unacceptable and should not be allowed to continue within our club.Let each us us make a move whenever this kind of thing happens and at the end of the day we shall win.

  81. johnnyhawleyloovinggooner

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:21 #57012

    truly awful to hear for anyone.i thought gooners came from the way people in London said gunners.

  82. BADARSE

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:20 #57011

    Reading your letter brought an inexorable sadness to me. Sad for the abuse you received, also any other Jewish fans exposed to it, or any form of racist directed at any individual. The main sadness is for the helplessness I feel. The initiative must come from clubs, especially ours. I posted some while ago about homophobia in football and there is a campaign at present, why I walked past a bookies today and a poster on the window said, 'Let's be clear, we support Rainbow Laces'. It made me smile. It helps to mark out the lines of acceptance, and helps to reduce friction amongst people. Here's hoping the club seizes that initiative I spoke of.

  83. DoubleDoubleDouble

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:19 #57010

    @Dav. Gooner is a corruption of Gunner, and has nothing to do with Germany at all.

  84. robin

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:15 #57009

    When I first read the headline of this article I rolled my eyes thinking it was about the 'Y' word. Reading the article, I agree with you, it needs to stop because it isn't anything to do with Spurs at all. However, I don't believe fans will go up to stewards and shop these people. Surely there has to be some honesty, and you have to confront the situation or at least educate these people. Maybe writing to Arsenal themselves and suggesting some research is collated on what % of Arsenal fans are actually Jewish and posting some leaflets at games so they'll actually see for themselves how stupid it is. What this article fails to understand is that it's a group mentality, hence why no one objected to it. People stick together, even if they have some abhorrent opinions, their shared interest is more powerful to them. Therefore, a lot of people joining in or turning a blind eye are not necessarily anti-semitic but just afraid to speak out or to stand up. There's no way you could tell a match day attendant that one person was singing the song, you'd be pointing out 10+ people and that'd cause you the same problems as you first encountered. I think Arsenal would be very willing to help in your attempts to reduce anti-semitism, home or away.

  85. GBP

    Sep 10, 2014, 14:13 #57008

    Good comments Alex. As a Jewish fan i can only imagine how it makes you feel. Torn, i would imagine i.e between Club and its support and your place within it. To be brutally honest the edge to the away fans singing has become more pronounced over the last 5/6 years in my opinion. There is always the anti and insulting songs about the localities and towns/Cities where the home team is based and on my travels, particularly northwards quite a few people have commented on the extent of the acidity of much of our fans singing. Its hard to argue and i guess its a lesser type of anti type singing than that which you describe. Its correct that these barbed anti songs are always of a greater volume than the songs of support for the team.Is it modern society and its need for groups to feel strengthened by the force of their angst towards other groups or is it just ignorant herd mentality? Its maybe part of both but its always hidden behind the 'its just football banter' banner isnt it. Youre right to raise the point but im unsure it will ever alter for you chaps to be honest. There is too much ignorance and carefree approach to other peoples feelings these days.The herd will tell you, it isn't personal of course which it isnt, but its still there isnt it. Cant see the Club or the authorities giving it a high agenda rating either.

  86. Dav

    Sep 10, 2014, 13:57 #57007

    I got shouted down for pointing something out a little while ago by quite a few Arsenal supporters. It is to do with the origins of the word "Gooner". I presumed as I guess most people do that it was just a play on the word "Gunner" but then found out sperately that gaurds in German P.O.W and concentration camps were often nicknamed Goons or Gooners. Coincidence?

  87. Matt

    Sep 10, 2014, 13:51 #57005

    Excellent letter. Arsenal is a forward thinking, modern club with a ton of history! That combination makes me proud to be a gooner. Nothing made me happier than seeing the paddy power advert with our players supporting LGBTplayers and fans... This letter was a shock to my system, but not a surprise, anti-semitism has no place at our club!!!

  88. Website Editor

    Sep 10, 2014, 13:35 #57003

    This piece is not about the Arab-Israeli conflict and the situation in Gaza. it is about racist chanting amongst Arsenal supporters. Please let's have a sensible debate without descending into vitriol. It should be remembered that Arsenal have a very large number of Jewish supporters, just as Tottenham do, including the likes of David Dein and the late Danny Fiszman.