Winning isn't everything. Wanting to win is.

Are Arsenal treading water?



Winning isn't everything. Wanting to win is.

Will he keep the fans onside?


The title of this piece is a quote from the legendary NFL coach Vince Lombardi gets to heart of the current debates about Wenger and the direction of the club. Despite comments on this website and elsewhere the arguments aren't really about whether we can win anything, it’s all about whether we really want to win.

When we moved ground the club rightly said we had to tread water for a bit while we got our finances in order so we could compete more effectively in the future. I, and I suspect most of us, went along with it. After all if you buy an expensive car maybe you can't go on holiday in the summer. It made sense. We even swallowed having our best players picked off one by one. Wenger to his credit managed that period with success. He kept us there or thereabouts.

But last season and now this season the situation has changed. We are told we have our finances in reasonable shape and we can and are going to try to win. It is accepted that we aren't going to spend Real Madrid sums but we have enough capital to build a squad that can go toe to toe with the big hitters. It’s my view that the source of the frustration and anger (at least where I sit in the E******s) is that it’s not clear that’s what we are doing. And if we aren't then does that mean we are still in truth just treading water?

We spent last season "competing' with one striker and when we led the PL going into the January transfer window we did nothing in that window except bizarrely take a player on loan who was injured. That was a statement of non intent if ever there was one; we weren't going to give it a go but would be happy to battle for the 4th spot. On top of that we had to endure being thrashed badly by the big hitters, that cut deeply and spoke of a club not wanting to compete.

This summer window we have been more active, mainly because we have had to be. We had to replace players who have left. We have added Sanchez who will make a real difference and Chambers who looks a terrific prospect. We let Vermaelen go and didn’t buy a back up CB even though it’s common knowledge that Kos has a dodgy achilles that needs managing. Is this evidence of a club treading water or a club wanting to win? We then had another bizarre turn of events when Wenger tried disingenuously to convince us that with Giroud injured, Sanogo was more than capable of filling his boots and we had plenty of top class strikers on our books anyway. This was clearly codswallop even by Wenger's standards, as the mad last minute dash for Danny Welbeck showed.

Now the window has closed are we now equipped and ready to give it a real go? The Man City and Chelsea games will answer that question to some extent. It’s my view that if we don't start showing some real intent to try to win something then the atmosphere in the ground will turn again and Wenger will once again be under cosh.


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64
comments

  1. delboy

    Sep 15, 2014, 22:57 #57355

    sanogo or akpom,why does wenger not see whats in front of him akpom is way ahead of sanogo ive watched him progress through the ranks he is a much better prospect and home grown oh thats right sanogo is french.

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 12, 2014, 14:32 #57159

    Hiccup, 60410 i think westie has already beaten him to it four or five pages back, he'll just have to get up earlier in the morning.

  3. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 12, 2014, 14:18 #57157

    I see i'm still been ignored, if that's been ignored i'd can't imagine what stalking is like, but it's good to know I've been missed even if it was only a matter of hours, and always in someones mind. Where's he gone? very original how long did it take you to think that one up, is that all you've got left in defence of your messiah? as your so interested GBP i'll tell you, no I wasn't fishing in the beautiful lakes of Ulster (even if you don't think so which is funny as you don't even know where they are) i was at the funeral of a friend who spent his life doing just that.

  4. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 12, 2014, 13:36 #57156

    AMG, would any of us be surprised, even if he was on the bench, what better way at sticking two fingers up, reports are he's playing in goal at training.

  5. GBP

    Sep 12, 2014, 11:47 #57154

    DW - Our illustrious past is some thing to be proud of but it is just that, very much in the past. Fortunately we have a Coach and a Board who've moved to the present and look to the future.I do get the impression you've a lot more oil in your lamp than to just parrot the dirge that these pilgrims Jeff, Hiccup, Marcus and the rest of their motley crew trot out each day. Keep the faith and be patient. The Clubs trajectory is one to be proud of and is very real, built on stone, unlike the Chelsea's of this World who that crew of bumpkins ive just mentioned want to emulate at whatever cost it brings to our Club.

  6. Pete

    Sep 12, 2014, 11:17 #57152

    Diaby when fit has often been ours and France's best player,you can't just write these players off and purchase ready made stars,that's not how Arsenal operate and there's many promising players coming through the youth scheme.The groaners don't really understand the traditions of Arsenal they're always into the quick fix they would love Usmanov to come in so they can text to their City and chav mates that we have a rich owner too.Sad characters who live out sad lives constantly complaining and navel gazing and erecting straw men.Bard you talk about where you sit at the Emirates being angry and frustrated,I think you have been spending too much time with Arsenal fans who are negative and don't really care about the team and it has rubbed off on you.We've driven out those losers from my part of the ground and every body has a good afternoon out.

  7. BADARSE

    Sep 12, 2014, 11:05 #57151

    Something as fickle as being 'injury prone', stands between the usual drivel from Dark Moanies, and a possible astounding season from..? Yes, Diaby. A young man blighted by injury but with enough talent to set the PL alight. At this stage it is in the lap of the gods, who I think reside just off that sand bank in the Thames Estuary, but if he stayed fit he could be a huge difference in our season. On the subject of shadows creeping across the ground, swallowing sense and enlightenment, let's recap by shining a spotlight on that patch of ground, chasing away the little scurrying pack. Coquelin has always impressed, but seems to have hit a wall in his development-will, he go around it, over it, or through it-any of those and he will be a valued assett. Bellerin the Road Runner, with Akpom sprinting into the limelight too, and then there is Zelalem, who may become the biggest of them all. Carl awaiting, development possibly? With a first team squad containing the young Calum, Ox, Jack, Danny, Kieran, Serge, Joel, Theo, Aaron and Yaya we boast a remarkable set of young athletes. The future is bright, the future is red and white.

  8. GBP

    Sep 12, 2014, 9:58 #57149

    Chris Dee - youve summed up this lot on here succinctly. The mindless rabble and their whinging about the Club need to wake up. Westie - Diaby has always had all the talent and ticked all of the right boxes. So much respect for him trying so hard to regain his fitness. Whats do this lot give him on here? Nothing but derogatory cheap shots and put downs.

  9. Westlower

    Sep 12, 2014, 9:37 #57148

    Watching Diaby last night reaffirmed he has all the qualities we need in a holding midfielder. His range of passing was sublime at times & he remains a class act.

  10. chris dee

    Sep 12, 2014, 9:33 #57147

    Treading water? Building and paying off a massive debt for the stadium,having to sell top players and still keeping us in the top four.We are now able to buy top players without having to sell and we won a trophy in the first season we did that.Sounds like progress to me. The club 'not wanting to compete?'what an absolutely,mean -nothing, banal load of b******s.

  11. Westlower

    Sep 12, 2014, 8:27 #57146

    Great to see the 2014/15 squad photo with two trophies. 31 players in all, including U-21's. @Hiccup, please double check the number of players in the photo as you know how poor my maths can be?

  12. GBP

    Sep 12, 2014, 8:05 #57145

    Westie - i reckon Hayden will make some real inroads on the 1st team this year, more so than the rest. Hes an impressive lad. Cocquelin is a lad ive been surprised with. Seems to have it all to play a useful DM type game but has never quite got there just yet has he. Fingers crossed for Diaby too. Be great to see at least one other youngster such as Hayden make the cut this Season. Creating players is what Arsenal are all about and have been since Billy Wrights days. Seems little point trying to persuade these tyros of it though.

  13. GBP

    Sep 12, 2014, 7:40 #57144

    Keep em coming lads. Love the jibes.Even a few new ones in there! Rods, lines, hooks and reeling you in again! Works every time. BARD - We differ in take on most stuff AFC but you're the only anti AW poster on here worthy of any respect. Do you truly see yourself aligned with this crew of pilgrims, Jeff, Hiccup, Marcus and Co?

  14. DW Thomas

    Sep 12, 2014, 0:46 #57143

    Am getting tired. Of both myself and others critical of and supporting Wenger. We say the same s..t every day. What matters is results. Beat Vity and we are contenders. Lose and we are still the same old Arsenal, wannabe champions now when our past was about more. Bard you are a man of my ilk, yet those that support Wenger really are becoming sycophantic. The Welbeck comments are pure fodder for his critics. He really is either clueless or thinks he is above reproach. Some on here give him that confidence as his repeated failure (success defined as trophies) is always brushed aside. We just want to really compete. Honestly, no bs, just go all out to win. Lombardi knew how to do it. Great mangers always do. "The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack,of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will." We lack the will. We won't push past the safe, comfort zone to see the team complete. Same now for years. And even worse, the club make decisions to even go backwards against the tide toward victory. You can say that's bs, but the evidence will slap you in the face!

  15. TJ

    Sep 11, 2014, 23:25 #57142

    What's frustrating is that we're always so close to having a complete squad but Wenger doesn't see the weaknesses his critics do. Think Welbeck was the best option for this summer as a striker, but he dithered over Higuain. It's been three late spending sprees which have probably been handled by the board that have allowed us to scrape through the last 3/4 seasons. If only Stan/the board could also see we need a defensive midfielder like Tiote, Wanyama or Carvalho and a third centre back. If we had that the squad would be without major weaknesses, but with all the money in the bank and loads more coming we walk a self-imposed tightrope when we could have spent a bit more and build a solid bridge...

  16. Bard

    Sep 11, 2014, 23:23 #57141

    GBP, post 60366, buy a centre half and a DM. QED

  17. JEFF WRIGHT

    Sep 11, 2014, 22:07 #57140

    Westie, you should have gone to SpecSavers ,"stranded sperm whales " is what I wrote. Cap'n Ahab was the latter day Arsene chasing Moby Dick in place of the European Cup.Same result though.

  18. kilkenny cat

    Sep 11, 2014, 21:42 #57139

    Saw the u21 game too and agree with west lower. Also liked Belerin who is classy in my opinion. There was also a lot of pace and movement which is encouraging. Akpom is already better than Sanogo and i know its a lower level but might as well give him a chance.

  19. Westlower

    Sep 11, 2014, 21:40 #57138

    @Jeff, Please miss, what's a school of stranded sperm? Were you a teacher or pupil at that school?

  20. Westlower

    Sep 11, 2014, 21:12 #57137

    Impressive display by Chuba Akpom scoring both goals in the U-21 2-0 win at Villa. Zelalem is physically stronger this season and played Akpom in for the 2nd goal with an incisive pass . Diaby ran the show and looks ready for a return to the first team. Isaac Hayden also had a good game at centre half.

  21. lee afc

    Sep 11, 2014, 20:39 #57136

    Bard...your last paragraph about us ''showing some real intent to try to win something" just sums up your total blinkered view along with many negatives (yes, you Jeff right)...has it escaped your mind that we are currently the fa cup holders and charity shield winners. Both within the last four months. Man city being the club that won the other two domestic trophies. In my book that is a decent effort. Jeff can mention how unlucky Liverpool were to throw the league away and how we were fortunate to score a goal more than Hull in the fa cup. History can't speak so it can't lie.

  22. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Sep 11, 2014, 20:35 #57135

    @ Jeff Wright and Hiccup listen those fools namely Westlower, GBP and Bardarse will always defend their messiah heck they might even go support hes new club when he does eventually go. All of their excuses to defend the clown our actually so embarrassing. The one about leaving money for hes successor made my jaw drop lool. What manager leaves money for hes successor?? lool Is he a hedge fund manager?? Hes job is to put the team in the best possible position to challenge for honours especially if you are a big club. Jeff Wright and Hiccup keep it up. You have both destroyed these clowns with FACTUAL arguments not made up pie in the sky NONSENSE!!! BRAVO

  23. David

    Sep 11, 2014, 20:29 #57134

    So, you are head-hunted by another firm. Their CEO turns up with some other senior chap. They convince you that you are the right man for their firm - future's bright etc. The office manager's out, but he really likes you. You're quite possibly the right, right, right stuff, they say with a deal-closing wink. Well who knows what the future holds? Your first day in the office, and the office manager has put out a newsletter in which he says that he merely wanted you on a temp to perm contract, as he's not certain that you are really up to the job. Nice to know where you stand. AMG

  24. RDT - 4

    Sep 11, 2014, 20:24 #57133

    Theres's no point arguing with GBP. Wenger's his special fwiend and he'll love him fowever and ever and ever.

  25. Hiccup

    Sep 11, 2014, 20:12 #57132

    Jeff, I like GBP's reference that if the Chelsea manager has players imposed on him, then if it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for us. Yet when we were asking for a striker, we were told that was the chav way, and we should do things the arsenal way. But as you can see, you can't converse with these guys as they change their minds and move the goalposts every time they are made laughing stocks of. Let's hope GBP can find where neutral is in his gearbox soon because it's becoming quite embarrassing for him.

  26. jeff wright

    Sep 11, 2014, 19:37 #57131

    Hiccup a good and telling summary that of Arsene's holy trio who are desperately thrashing about like a school of stranded sperm whales on a sand dune in the Thames Estuary spluttering and gasping with their mad bloodshot inane eyes glaring and their nasty teeth bared in impotent rage , while trying to pretend that they are right ,and Arsene as well natch, while the rest of us are wrong. I just loved Westies one about Arsene saving money for the next manager! Oh dear,you really couldn't make it up. It's too easy shooting these fools down, as the actress said to the bishop ,I thought it would be much harder .

  27. Hiccup

    Sep 11, 2014, 19:04 #57130

    Oh dear. Looks like GBP needs one of his mates to help him get that gear stick out of reverse. Invented arguments? Here's some cracking inventions by the outlaws that I wish I could take credit for: We can't buy because we have our 25 man squad? Spot on there old bean. We can't buy a striker without selling first? Another tick. It would be foolish to buy a striker? I'd love to own the copyright to that one. Wenger is saving the cash for his successor? You need to get that one patented before Westie claims it. We would never sign a player without wenger being involved, although the Welbeck signing was one by the Board imposed on our manager? And I'm the one with twisted logic? You couldn't make it up, but you still do.

  28. Jason

    Sep 11, 2014, 18:53 #57129

    What is quite ironic, other than maybe a defensive centre midfielder, we didn't have to sign anyone else in the summer. Just keeping TV and Jenkinson would have been suffice!!!! Letting us get down to six defenders is ridiculous, and at some stage this season we will ultimately pay the price.

  29. GBP

    Sep 11, 2014, 18:22 #57127

    Hiccup - you're struggling there chap by the look of it but full marks for being brave enough to try. Take a housepoint. No point you trying to be cute and clever though, you badly lack the armoury. Stick to just your usual diet of insults, twisted logic, invented arguments and empty headed bluster, it suits you better. You sound like Maguiresbridges hapless apprentice. Wheres he gone anyway? sampling the 'best fishing in Europe' is he? Deary me!

  30. BADARSE

    Sep 11, 2014, 18:13 #57126

    A three-pronged attack of the decrepit posters, me, him, and the other one.

  31. GBP

    Sep 11, 2014, 18:09 #57125

    ........and to cap what fine words Badarse has just said Jeff, you leave my elder bro alone! Just cos you lose a few (all) of the arguments there's no need to pick on him. Im watchin yer!!

  32. Westlower

    Sep 11, 2014, 18:08 #57124

    If the stories in today's Baby Crier paper can be believed, Arteta & BFG were chatting to Welbeck at London Colney & were made aware that he wanted out of OT. They alerted Wenger, who then instigated the move. Always in control, our manager.

  33. BADARSE

    Sep 11, 2014, 17:37 #57123

    It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, Arsenal five games in, (three away), were unbeaten (only one of four teams), the rest of the top teams are better than us. We had a flagship purchase, who probably wasn't going to be played in the correct position so a waste of time having him. Vermaelen, (who didn't play often, and poorly invariably when he did) was released, a bad decision, because raw Chambers, who has stepped up and played brilliantly isn't the answer as a replacement because he is too young(?). Sagna left, we only replaced him with a younger international who displaced him in the national side. Fabianski left, (disliked by many), a wonderful young prospect replaces him and it's only one for one. Giroud, our top scorer vilified by many injures himself(??), we get a replacement, (a young English international who just got a brace in an away 0-2 win), but it wasn't the manager's choice, we got him by accident...and he will probably be played out of position anyway. Now all of that any child would think you couldn't make up.

  34. jeff wright

    Sep 11, 2014, 17:27 #57122

    baby goo-ner 10 year olds would be too old to play in your nursery .. now go and get your nappy changed you have done a poo poo ...

  35. BADARSE

    Sep 11, 2014, 17:14 #57121

    I give you the man who looks both ways, Arsene Wenger. He is a capitalist earning too much for himself, and his greedy globalised bosses-he is a socialist, philanthropically displaying loyalty to seriously injured players, Diaby, Ramsey, Sagna, Rosicky and Eduardo. He pursues a youth policy to develop young Arsenal talent, hoping to save the club money-he wastes our money by overpaying the young players. He is not responsible for the big-money signings-he is responsible for selling the big players. He is a dictator trying to run the club alone-he wasn't involved during the WC as he commentated for France and was in Italy recently, so therefore uninvolved. He is only interested in achieving fourth place and winning the CL, as a personal quest-he constantly displays emotion by agitatedly pulling on the zipper of his coat, arguing with the fourth official when things go against us, and kicking water bottles around because he is frustrated. I bet he is a vegetarian who eats steak, and a religious man who believes in witchcraft. Peculiar.

  36. Hiccup

    Sep 11, 2014, 17:06 #57120

    Just been an accident down my road. Saw GBP reversing at a rate of knots and looks like he's mowed down badarse and Westie in the process. What was it the other day? Wenger doesn't need to be in the country for a deal to go through. No way would a player be bought without wenger's say so. He identifies the player and leaves it to the Board to deal with. Now he's telling us the Board made the decision and have imposed Welbeck on wenger? Can this guy not go 24 hours without contradicting himself?

  37. BADARSE

    Sep 11, 2014, 16:53 #57119

    baby goner, 'Goo goo ga goob.', which roughly translated means 'I agree'. I often imagine GBP as 'Harry', and jeff wright as 'Lou Lou', the Harry Enfield baby characters. Harry always mean to Lou Lou and makes her cry, 'Poor, Lou Lou.' Kindergarten's out for summer! Where are the lollipops? Oh, and my Dad can fight your Dad, ha ha. Good old Arsenal.

  38. CT Gooner

    Sep 11, 2014, 16:11 #57116

    I need to stop some of the comments about the folks not liking our manager wanting our club to fail. For me it's completely the opposite. I thought we needed a striker with pace; I'm an Arsenal supporter and Scottish, so I don't know much about DW making that choice impossible to comment on. I think the biggest issue with our club is we've become ponderous with the ball, no direction in our attacks and no speed. I hear DW's work ethic is immense, so that should pair very well with Sanchez, whom I love as a player. My point about DW and the Guardian's take on how it went down is Wenger was not going out of his way to get us a striker, or a DM, or a CD. I'm now behind the team we've got, I want them to play good football, something we haven't seen yet. Where I think we differ is I'll call a spade a spade, and if our manager on 8 million a year screws up, I'll call him on it. Sometimes it seems Wenger's supporters are prepared to ignore glaring deficiencies, as I'm sure they feel the other side over states them. I'd bet the truth lies in the middle....

  39. DJ

    Sep 11, 2014, 15:29 #57115

    I think Bard has a valid point about us really having the ambition to go for it. Walcott was injured on the 3rd January leaving short of numbers and more importantly pace up front. Obviously, the Kalstrom purchase was an unfortunate mistake but to not gamble with even a short term loan deal for a striker was a mistake in my opinion. We were leading the table in the New Year yet there wasn’t even a word from the club as to why we never entered the market. Fourth place is fine but it adds two extra play off games that always have a knock on effect to the new season.

  40. baby gooner

    Sep 11, 2014, 15:21 #57114

    website editor, can we have a section on the site called baby gooner, where all this immature bickering between AKBs and WOBs can go on. They profess to be adults, some even OAPs, but I would judge the average age to be around 10

  41. jeff wright

    Sep 11, 2014, 15:00 #57112

    What about teeth though,I picture you putting your ones in a glass of water at night in your bathroom cabinet ... at least your finger nails get a break from you biting them to the quick while fretting constantly over Arsene .

  42. Westlower

    Sep 11, 2014, 15:00 #57111

    The WOB's have got their knickers in a twist over the Welbeck transfer. In your wildest dreams do you really believe any transfer happens without Wengers approval? You must be completely confused as your previous insistence was that he has total control over all things Arsenal. Do you truly believe the club weren't in touch with Wenger at all times on the final day of the transfer window? Sadly, your hatred of the man distorts your judgement.

  43. BADARSE

    Sep 11, 2014, 14:43 #57110

    Yes jeff wright, you have nailed it. GBP and myself are Siamese twins, his fur is a little fluffier, but I am not envious, he can always rest his head on my shoulder, and usually does. 'Oi, take your hand out of me trouser pocket!'

  44. jeff wright

    Sep 11, 2014, 14:26 #57109

    The answer to your question Badarse is no I am not Finsbury Joe . This is just more silly clueless nonsense from you to go along with your views on Wenger's latest nail that he has knocked in his own coffin. The question is were are you and GBP separated at birth >? Your mutual agreements on all things Arsene would suggest that telepathy does indeed exist .

  45. BADARSE

    Sep 11, 2014, 14:23 #57108

    Athoz hi buddy. Difficult to stay cool, it's hot here! Hope your lady enjoys her break, and you do your break too. The Zombies-Well no one told me about her, The Rockin berries-He's in town, KinkS-You Really Got Me, The Stones-Satisfaction, The Beatles-everything, enjoy young man. My daughter flies to Spain in five hours, so sisters in arms. Aarrgh! The Lollipop Man has arrived. Yes you are so right chum, people are manipulated into behaving in a predictable pattern, some on the edge of the circle smile knowingly as we dance in a similar fashion. Just imagine that planet earth and the whole of humanity is a game played by super-beings from far off. It could be something like that because I am sure I have seen this episode. Peace to you, my friend.

  46. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 11, 2014, 14:22 #57107

    So OGL was told to piss off and get lost at Heathrow then, well done Ivan and Dick you have balls after all.

  47. GBP

    Sep 11, 2014, 14:07 #57106

    Very small margins Maguiresbridge. A fairer wind would have seen us with 2 Carling Cups and a CL trophy AS WELL AS the FAC and constant top 4 placement since the stadium shift under exactly the manner we ve been managed throughout. Anyway, ill not keep you longer from your grazing herd, you might start to feel lonely.

  48. BADARSE

    Sep 11, 2014, 14:06 #57105

    CT Gooner, I haven't read the Guardian report, I try not to read newspapers, even the best of the bunch. I did read Arsene's personal statement on the AFC web and he didn't say what you intimated, nor what the Guardian reporter must have interpreted. He clearly spoke in an ambiguous way, and possibly one could say cryptic, but he did not say that he wouldn't have bought him. He has alluded to the fact that coincidentally him being out of the country made the deal go through. Now that seems to me to be a suggestion that he wanted the player, left thinking it wouldn't happen and some how in his absence it did. He also said the explanation would come in the future. He also spoke at length of Welbeck's qualities and how we at Arsenal would improve them-nothing but positive responses. I'm sorry if this doesn't fit the required agenda, but there you are. He definitely wasn't a second gunman on the grassy knoll, but I do know for certain he never went to the moon-mind you a few did, and are still on the Dark Side. Just remember, he who laughs, lasts, laughs, laughs last, laughs!

  49. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 11, 2014, 13:58 #57103

    There's a lot of fans who think winning isn't everything, and resigned to it, telling us it's the way we play football that counts (whichever way that's supposed to be) even after been beaten or humiliated,and their still swallowing, being as happy as larry being there or there abouts in fourth place year after year even trying to tell us that's winning and being a success, even resigned to it already. Maybe if ALL fans wanted more instead of just swallowing and believing fourth place and competing in a competition we're never going to win (under this manager anyway) is a success season after season we'd have got it. Good piece Bard.

  50. GBP

    Sep 11, 2014, 13:51 #57102

    CT - just read it. What do i think? It looks like the Board took a view in the absence of a loan deal and bought him anyway. Ive no difficulty with it all. Many of Chelsea s players are imposed upon their coaches and its a method thats been the case in Europe for over 50 years. It doesn't follow that the player wont do well. I know that secretly many of you would possibly like Wellbeck to flop so to give you yet another stick to beat Wenger with, but i prefer to think that Wengers maturity as a Coach and his integrity as a man will prevail in supporting the player. Im sure it will do too. At 16 Million it was hardly a decision that rocked the transfer richter scale. A higher price may have seen Wengers preferred loan view backed fully.

  51. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Sep 11, 2014, 13:41 #57101

    Has anyone just seen or read what this clueless manager has said? He has just admitted that welbeck would not have signed for us if he was on the country lool. So he's basically implying that welbeck was not he's signing loooool. That also proves ozil was not he's signing loooool. Clearly Gazidis and kronke have had enough of this clown dithering in the market and knew folks would be going mad against Wenger in the stands. So clearly welbeck was not he's signing

  52. CT Gooner

    Sep 11, 2014, 13:33 #57100

    Agree Bard, and thanks Fishpie for answering GBP. To me, I'd have been more than happy with a holding midfielder and an additional CD. I'd imagine the holding player to be in the 25-30 mil range and defender around 10. So I guess I'm saying I'd like to have spent an additional 40 mil this year. do we have that much in the bank? We probably did after getting past Besiktas! So, we STILL haven't replaced Viera and it may not be long before we're looking a Monreal playing at CD and Flamini at Left back, scary for sure.... Now GBP/Badarse etc, what do you have to say about the Welbeck purchase, now we know Wenger didn't sanction it?? I read that in the Guardian this morning if you need a reference.

  53. GBP

    Sep 11, 2014, 13:27 #57099

    Tony - as Westlower says, im of the view too that the Club will bolster the middle of the park with a player who can shield the defence, it just hasn't happened yet. Fishpie - respect. I get frustrated at times, the same as Bard in fact, but my starting point back in 2006 was that the Club wouldnt be likely to win ANY trophy for a decade. I used to argue with other freinds on this point to the point of boring them (i probably bore you chaps on here too, but my view remains!!!) I admit as well that i didnt support the move from Highbury, i strongly supported its extension to a 50000 capacity and was lucky enough to learn from certain professionals at the time that those proposals were very, very doable and had support within the Club. That much said, they moved and caution with money had to be the Clubs byword and so it remains. The Club want to be fully debt free, in so far as its debt pertains to the Stadium and i agree with this policy. Moreover, ive often said on here that my other basic starting point is that this latest contract given to Arsene is the final laying of the ground for his eventual successor. Handling the transition this way is the best way in my view. I dont want a Moyesesque calamity to precede our future, which is what i think will occur if the Club gave in to the negative, naysaying fraternity who reside on this site. Fortunately theyre a tiny minority. Its a matter of being patient. Too many underestimate whats entailed in moving a business as we have done. The cries for Wengers head and the Boards too are just ill informed football fan cries resulting from the lack of their fix for a bit of short term glory and one upmanship. I get pangs of that when we get seriously turned over of course i do, but reason needs to hold sway. i think the Board have shown reason throughout. The way Arsenal is ran is the envy of many in World football. Its time they were given some credit. Im confident that we shall finish 3rd this Season too.

  54. AMG

    Sep 11, 2014, 13:14 #57098

    You make fine points Bard. Something people who call us 'plastic fans' fail to realise is that we're not having a go at the club for failing to win, we're upset because they don't appear to be trying, and trying to win and, if not possible, improve is the defining quality for any football club anywhere. Don't bother trying to convince Gunner be Pompous guys, he's heard all of the arguments before, all of which offer more than any counter argument he has ever brought to the table, he just chooses to ignore them and attack the individuals trying to make the points - It's desperate stuff, it really is! I don't know if anyone can say whether Welbeck is a panic buy or not, or even whether Wenger sanctioned the purchase or not. All we know is that he's a promising young player, who should keep Giroud and Sanogo out of the side (provided the inspector clueless doesn't play him out wide, won't hold my breath). He certainly looked the part through the middle on Monday :-)

  55. Ozzie

    Sep 11, 2014, 13:11 #57097

    Greetings & salutations Baddie. Referring to Finsbury's post t'was the last paragraph that tickled my fancy, not the crap How are you? My wife is currently holidaying in Moraira in Spain. Alas am enjoying some solitude and some of my old 60/70s records. Beats working! Sad that so many heads are screwed up by hate, isn't it? these people that sing these derogatory songs are 'not home' - some evil monster has entered their heads & play with them like toys. On lyrics, I enjoyed the one you posted - The windmills of your mind - Loved it. Stay cool Brother, you never know who is waiting round the corner - maybe the lol lipop man :)

  56. Big Andy

    Sep 11, 2014, 12:39 #57095

    The club showed that it had no ambition when it offered Wenger a new contract last summer. It's obvious to anyone but the most devoted AKB that Wenger is finished as a top manager. The stunningly incompetent way in which the club was run last season - when he had the title at his mercy but threw it away - should have been the final nail in Wenger's coffin. But at a club with no ambition other than to make money, fourth place is all that matters. Wenger will end up regretting that he didn't walk away last summer: it's all about to turn ugly when yet again we underachieve. Signing Welbeck was a great, but Wenger's pathetic refusal to address the problems in defence, and not sign a defensive midfielder, may well leave us outside the top four come May. Then he'll be on his way.

  57. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Sep 11, 2014, 12:33 #57094

    Wenger has just admitted that he wouldn't have bought Welbeck.That is incredible.Surely that alone clearly proves that Gazidis and the board want to compete and try and win trophies.Meanwhile Wenger is more interested in developing players and if he wins something then that's a bonus.How can this situation go on? Many of us have known for years that the clubs transfer policy,the inbalances in the squad and the lack of tactical awareness are down to the manager.Those with a Messiah complex and the media in general have excused him. Well now there appears to be an all out gloves off between Gazidis and Wenger.Ivan has had enough of this lunatic and taken control.Maybe he was sick that after spending two months negotiating a buy-back on Fabregas,Wenger passed.Or having done a deal with Puma the manager passed on their poster boy.At last Wenger is getting managed.If he hates that then the chances of him staying for three more years look slim.

  58. Tony Evans

    Sep 11, 2014, 12:24 #57093

    BARD - Great post which I entirely agree with. GBP surely BARD shouldn't need to spell it out, but his underlying message is that the squad is never quite good enough to properly compete at the very top. Yes we will probably manage top four and last 16 CL, but the title, or anything better in the CL, unlikely to say the least. And no that doesn't mean go out and spend Real Madrid style, it means buying that extra centre half, and a half decent holding player which could make all the difference. Also, as Bard said, we were competing last season with just one out and out striker - not good enough for a club with real title ambitions. These are the issues which cause so much frustration and I am amazed you don't share them.

  59. Westlower

    Sep 11, 2014, 12:20 #57092

    Full marks for your consistency Bard as you views haven't deviated in the past year. Must take you to task on what constitutes a 'panic buy.' The Welbeck deal was never really on until the selling club had secured Falcao. All credit to IG & Dick Law for getting the deal done late in the day & preventing any loan deal to the Sours. Double delight. The previous 4 deals were completed quickly & efficiently. It was a good transfer window for AFC. Surely Chambers is a more than adequate replacement for TV? No point buying him and not playing him? You'd have to be pretty long in the tooth to remember when Arsenal supplied the bulk of the England squad. All of them young guns with significant improvement to come. AFC still believe in giving young players an opportunity to develop their careers, that's the way we are. A quality DM would have been desirable & I don't accept the club haven't tried to get one. If rumours are to be believed we remain in talks to get Carvalho, with his 3rd party ownership being a stumbling block. Khedira is sidelined after a knee op & Southampton refused to sell Schneiderlin. You can't always get what you want! Only two mega rich clubs are shorter odds than AFC to win the PL, but realistically it'll be some achievement for us to fend off Man U & Liverpool for that coveted 3rd spot. Who's to say further improvement in our young squad + a couple of new signings won't give us a real shout in 2015/16. It's hardly a definition of treading water. Now, where did I put my water wings?

  60. BADARSE

    Sep 11, 2014, 12:14 #57091

    So the burning question is this, is jeff wright Finsbury Joe? You couldn't make it up! With you on that score GBP. This article is again the rehashing of a stereotypical point of view, mine it's true is equally stereotypical, but with a different spin, perhaps more positive, and certainly far less convinced of any conclusions to be drawn upon any vague and inconclusive interpretations. You can't teach a leopard to swim, neither does a duck change it's spots. Athoz, I didn't realise you had such a good posting voice. Blue Mink, great sentiments in a song's lyrics.

  61. Fishpie

    Sep 11, 2014, 12:07 #57090

    GBP, I understand why you get fed up with the negativity and criticism this site generally emits about the club's lack of ambition. But, to be fair to Bard and others who frequent this site, they are driven by the deep deep frustration that comes from the manager/the club never quite doing as much as he/it could do; every transfer window, every summer, every January. Not once or twice but every time. Like Bard says, I don't expect Arsenal to spend Real Madrid sums on one player. But a club that really really wants to win the Premier League or the Champion's League doesn't allow itself to go into the season with a squad that is short in numbers in key positions or that has an obvious weakness uncorrected. The point is you don't have to spend Real Madrid money to resolve that shortfall. Arsenal has, as far as any reasonable informed estimate of our unspent budget goes, enough money to have acquired another central defender and another holding/defensive mid. One to allow us to cover and rotate and the other to help improve the team. 2 players short again. And I think it makes us vulnerable. Arsenal have been proactive this summer and bought in some very good players for sure and they got in another striker when injury struck, but we needed to do a bit more to make us seriously fancied contenders. Even when we are in the Financial Promised Land that the club told us the Emirates, FFP and new sponsorship deals would lead us to, we don't do enough. As a man who I'm sure loves the club as much as you do, Bard has every right to point out that the the club is still, yet again, falling short of maximizing its chances of trophy success. Under performing leaders who desire support,loyalty and money from their fan base need to be called out. And Bard is not calling for silly money to be spent, just what the club has.

  62. Ozzie

    Sep 11, 2014, 11:55 #57089

    That's funny, Finsbury.

  63. GBP

    Sep 11, 2014, 10:56 #57087

    bARD - Your post tries to hide but still betrays the oft repeated underlying message of your total lack of faith in Wenger and the Board for an as yet, still unspecified reason/s. What is your criteria that would ever demonstrate to you unequivocally that the Club DOES want to win? That's what id like to know. You've cleverly avoided saying so. Its my view that you (and the others on the site) who constantly sing in unison from the same hymn sheet wont ever be happy until you see the Club doing exactly what you say they that you dont expect them to do i.e. spend Real Madrid atyle or at least Man City/ Chelsea style. Its not going to happen, never has done and isn't likely too. The Club doesn't agree with such a method and neither do the footballing authorities else why do you think they've devised FFP? Some of you need to make a lifestyle decision it seems to me and ask yourselves whether following/supporting the Club is really some thing that you're truly interested in.

  64. Finsbury Joe

    Sep 11, 2014, 10:37 #57085

    This outfit want to win, but are stuck with a clueless manager, under achieving players and backroom staff, an owner only interested in money, and AKB fams, of whom their watchword is " mediocrity" and this will be the season where it all comes to a head in the most ugly manner All deserve each other. Gooners should be up in arms, not sleepwalking. Amazing, the great French socialist doing all he can to make an American uber capitalist richer, couldn't make it up.