Falling short

Online Ed: Shares spoiled at home to Man City



Falling short

Ecstacy, but it couldn’t last


It was a home game for Arsenal against the defending champions, and ultimately, the need to start beating the teams that finish above them in the table continues to be unfulfilled, leaving questions about the club’s ambition. Scoring two high quality goals against a defence in which Vincent Kompany was immense was highly creditable. Arsenal did what they needed to do up front to win this match. However, in defence, man for man, City are a level above, right across the backline. I am not criticizing the Gunners’ defenders, I am merely stating that Manchester City have better ones. This meant that Arsenal conceded the two goals that cost them two points. For the second one, especially, the defending was simply not good enough. There may also be questions about Wojciech Szczesny’s place in the starting line-up. There weren’t too many outstanding saves from him.

Gibbs and Arteta may have returned to full training in the week, but the pair only made it onto the bench, presumably with the trip to Dortmund in mind. Back ups Monreal and Flamini are both players of a certain level, but not of the requisite quality to make the difference in games of this nature. Other clubs have better back up. Physically, Arsenal looked a bit lightweight in comparison with City, in spite of Yaya Toure not starting. Both Ramsey and Wilshere were selected, which meant the relegation of Santi Cazorla to the bench. Danny Welbeck made his debut for Arsenal, although one suspects there would have been a caustic atmosphere in the stadium if Yaya Sanogo had kept him out.

Arsenal did start well, and Welbeck had a couple of decent chances, the second of which he really should have converted. One suspects if Giroud had missed the three opportunities Welbeck did in this game, he would have been crucified, and the ‘can’t score against big sides’ mantra would have re-surfaced. Welbeck was forgiven, the crowd want him to succeed. City took the lead for the simple fact that Sergio Aguerro is more clinical. The visitors were given space and time by Arsenal and they exploited it. The Gunners were playing some much better football than we have seen so far this season (at least since the Community Shield), but Manuel Pellegrini’s team were generally able to cope with it. They closed down much quicker and marked tighter. At times, they slightly bullied their opponents. They were slightly more cynical, but even the greatest sides have that edge to them. Arsenal had it when they were winning titles. Nice guys win the fair play award.

The first half performance was certainly an improvement on that of this fixture last season, at the end of March, in which City ran the game. This one was a little more even, with Pellegrini’s side simply having the lead through slightly greater quality at the decisive moments. In midfield, the home side battled manfully, but could not establish any dominance. Arsenal needed a monster in front of their back four, but had to make do with the fading Flamini, who looks even more off the pace than Arteta has done. The game largely passed him by. City looked most dangerous when demonstrating pacy give and go football, which Arsenal should learn from.

The tide turned Arsenal’s way after the interval, and Jack Wilshere, who had played well in the first 45 minutes, improved further still. Aaron Ramsey has had an unspectacular season so far, and is still to recapture the form of a year ago. It should come, and it can’t come too soon for his team. Alexis played his socks off, and spent much of the game over on the left, presumably to occupy the more dangerous of the visitors’ full backs, Zabaleta. At times, certain players were guilty of holding on to the ball too long when the team were breaking and opportunities beckoned. Wilshere and Alexis come to mind, and at one point Ramsey berated the Chilean for not releasing the ball to him on a promising break, with the consequence that Alexis was dispossessed.

Yet, the spirit was strong, and at times, the home side fought like tigers, raising their game in response to the quality of the opposition, by far the best side they have faced so far. Arsenal became more threatening, and broke through with a wonderful run and finish by Wilshere. The pressure continued to produce the sublime second goal by Alexis. However, they were unable to see the game out, and their concentration levels may have dipped a little too much with the injury to Debuchy, and the attendant break as the player was stretchered off, amidst a general feeling amongst the fans that we might not see him again until much later in the season.

City’s equalizer was disappointing, but hardly surprising. Koscielny gets outjumped too easily and this weakness in his game has led to the concession of too many goals. Much as we may want to believe in the Mertesacker/Koscielny pairing, this is the same combination that were dismantled at Anfield and Stamford Bridge. Frankly, Terry/Cahill and Kompany/Demichelis are better combinations. It makes the difference over the course of the season. Those two pairs also enjoy greater protection in front of them by way of no-nonsense defensive midfielders who could swat the likes of Arteta away like a fly. In the first team squad list on the official website, Arsenal have six defenders to cover four positions, and 19 players for the six positions in front of them. A question of priorities? Significantly, of those 19, none are what you would really call a defensive midfielder. Arsene Wenger simply does not believe in them anymore, it was an idea relinquished when he stopped picking Gilberto. And to think, we used to bemoan Gilles Grimandi playing there. One wonders what might have happened if he had tried a bit harder to sign Xabi Alonso in 2008, instead of protecting the careers of Alex Song and Denilson. So the balance is wrong. It means we will see thrilling multi-goal matches when the top teams come to Arsenal. Some they might win, some they might lose. Certainly yesterday could have gone either way as City’s late effort that hit the post indicates. Away from home? No-one is licking their lips at the prospect of visiting Stamford Bridge soon, let’s just put it that way.

Mesut Ozil was tidy, and knitted play together when called upon to do so, but ultimately his effect on proceedings was marginal. He will need to be moved back to his favoured position before we see the best of him, and one suspects this might not happen until Walcott returns. Whether the current malaise is due to post World Cup fatigue, unhappiness at being played wide, or something more fundamental, the next couple of months will tell us. The fear is that the player is simply too lightweight for the English game, but at £42 million, the club can’t afford to give up on his until they are more certain. Ozil being scapegoated isn’t going to help matters. Let’s see what happens once he switches to his favoured number 10 role and has Alexis, Walcott and Welbeck to feed from deeper. In truth though, there was enough space on the pitch yesterday for him to have made more of an impact if he was willing to work as hard as Alexis, but that is not in his nature. Alexis is a battler, Ozil is more of a Glenn Hoddle type. Silky skills. Can disappear if he doesn’t fancy it. You know who you’d want in the trenches with you, and sadly, at times, the Premier League can be a bit of a battleground.

Debutant Danny Welbeck worked hard and showed plenty of promise. It’s early days and it will take four or five games before he is fully gelling with his team-mates. He is not quite as effective as Giroud in holding the ball up, as much as anything due to physical differences, but his greater pace is obvious and worried City at times. It was interesting to note that Yaya Sanogo was not even on the bench in spite of scoring three times while on under-21 international duty.

In the end though, it was a case of nearly. Not quite. Arsenal just a little light, a little short. Except at the bank that is. I remember they were once called The Bank of England club because of Herbert Chapman’s willingness to go out and spend big to secure the players he knew the club needed. How times have changed. Arsenal need defensive solidity, not only an increase in numbers but an increase in quality. Until that happens, you can forget those dreams of titles.

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.

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  1. BADARSE

    Sep 16, 2014, 19:00 #57409

    Standing right alongside you radfordkennedy, safety catches off, hands hovering above pearl-handled Peacemakers', trigger fingers curled, giving them my best Peter Storey stare. Come on my redmen. This team have it in them to do the job, wish I was there, spirit will have to do. Putting on my Parma '94 shirt.

  2. radfordkennedy

    Sep 16, 2014, 17:18 #57406

    Afternoon all if ever there was a need for a Captain Frank speech in the dressing room its tonight.With a shortage of defenders a display of Copenhagen proportions maybe needed.Ive had the boots in dubbin awaiting a call to colours but alas no such call has come so good luck to the boys tonight and may the spirit of 1970 be with them..Go Go Gunners!!!!

  3. Gare K

    Sep 16, 2014, 16:48 #57405

    Dietmar Hamann tipping us to reach this season’s European Cup final? Fair enough. But if anyone is going to take his opinion as gospel or face value, can I remind you all that during the last World Cup, Hamann claimed that the Germany squad that went to Brazil 2014 were the worst that his country had taken to a tournament for years. Unless I’m living in some parallel universe (some may say some Gooners are) I could have sworn that it was Germany who won the World Cup. Still, I actually think we’ll be alright in Dortmund and qualify from the group as per usual. What happens after Christmas is anyone’s guess. Up The Arsenal!

  4. BADARSE

    Sep 16, 2014, 14:22 #57399

    Just a bit of whimsy, and you would probably be right maguiresbridge. Athoz, not a prediction or anything cosmic. We have both enjoyed the best of days, and it grieves me that the youngsters haven't been left with much to 'go at'. A terrible legacy for the very young, and the yet unborn. Now to end with a chorus of, 'All You Need Is Love', by that little known band, 'Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band', remember, 'There's nothing you can do that can't be done. Nothing you can sing that can't be sung. Nothing you can say, but you can learn how to play the game, it's easy.

  5. Ozzie

    Sep 16, 2014, 13:45 #57393

    well I wont be around to realise your predictions Baddie. The way "sport" is headed I wouldn't even wish to know. Our common cliché here is: 'We've seen and had the best of it.' I'm glad I'm on the way out as humankind is in a very sorry state. What graffiti message did you spray on the wall? "I'm left, you're right, she's gone?" Peace Brother & here's hoping..

  6. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 16, 2014, 13:40 #57392

    BADARSE, obviously wenger still had an input.

  7. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 16, 2014, 13:21 #57389

    DW, excellent post, quite a few do care mate, those that don't and yes there are plenty of them should take them selves over to my part of the world where they'd feel right at home as we have bog snorkelling championships here and the world champion is a local lass, they could give her a run for here money

  8. Rocky RIP

    Sep 16, 2014, 12:16 #57382

    @ Mathew - and NOBODY saw it coming

  9. Mathew

    Sep 16, 2014, 11:52 #57380

    The 1/2 million extra we refused to pay for Manolas has started to bite us, Chambers has tonsilitis and Monreal with a back problem. We have 3 defenders who are fully fit and we are entering a period where we will play twice a week....crisis looming

  10. Westlower

    Sep 16, 2014, 11:06 #57373

    @Bard, Who needs Joe Bloggs when we've got Jeff Wright?

  11. GBP

    Sep 16, 2014, 10:14 #57372

    Hi Bard - We ve been injury bedevilled for years of course.This one to Debuchy is a real blow but theres nothing to suggest that we're going to be torched down our right side every game we play without him.If Bellerin is as sound a player as we re led to think there's nothing to suggest that he couldn't excel surely? Inexperience isnt always a bad thing in football as im sure you ll know. Its often an advantage for a player as many egs of Arsenal players down the decades proves. It seems Chambers will be OK. Be nice to have top quality bench men all over the place for sure, but its not the case and wont be because its not possible. Got to have faith in the younger players. I reckon we ll do OK in Dortmund.

  12. W

    Sep 16, 2014, 9:47 #57370

    How many defenders are fit for tonight's match? I've heard rumours that 3 or 4 are out.

  13. Bard

    Sep 16, 2014, 9:28 #57369

    Westie: if Hamann says it then it must be true. That's scrapping the barrel a bit! If Joe Bloggs of the Lancashire Herald says the opposite do we have a stalemate? On the one hand you and others argue that we are all brainwashed by Sky and media and the next you're quoting football nobodies. The truth is its hard enough qualifying from the CL group stages without shooting yourself in the foot by not having adequate defensive cover. The young spaniel may well be one for the future. If he is why haven't we seen him in the team before and is a CL qualifier the place to start your career. It's a cock up whichever way you look at it.

  14. Mathew

    Sep 16, 2014, 9:03 #57368

    Great quotes Westlower, need it on CL evening to pep up our spirits.

  15. Westlower

    Sep 16, 2014, 8:53 #57367

    Some much needed optimism to brighten the gloom & despondency from today's Racing Post Champions League special. Didi Hamann, ex Bayern Munich, Man City & Liverpool, tips Arsenal to reach the final of the ECL, under the heading 'Impressive new signings could take Arsenal all the way to final.' Also great quote from Robin Miller of bookmakers Sporting Index, "It sounds daft when you say it out loud but Arsenal could go well this year. They have quick, powerful players who can cause problems for the majority of the teams in the competition." Neither of these neutral professionals reside on the dark side of the moon. Arsenal are 1/4 to qualify from Group D. Calum Chambers mum says "mustn't grumble, Calum is feeling much better today." Thought for the day - If Chelsea beat Man City on Sunday is the PL race over already?

  16. Bard

    Sep 16, 2014, 8:35 #57366

    GBP: drooling is the wrong word. In my case it's more Iike fuming. We are so used to these cock ups that many don't even see it as a problem but still witter on about what a great manager he is.

  17. Peter Wain

    Sep 16, 2014, 8:29 #57365

    All the money in the world and three weeks after the transfer window closes we are in danger of running out of defenders. Wengers transfer dealings are a complete joke and when you sell a defender like Vermalen replace him . You could not make up this gross mismanagement!!!

  18. Mathew

    Sep 16, 2014, 8:26 #57364

    Agreed Badarse about Pod that he haven't had enough playing time. But Ozil and Per has been starting almost all matches lately, and you still call them as not 'match fit'. Have a look at Zabaleta, Aguero or even their World Cup heroes who play for Bayern. And above all, he still doesn't feel that we are stretched in defense. I hope Bellerin and Hayden will live up to the expectations. Either Wenger is overconfident or he continues to be stubborn as ever

  19. GBP

    Sep 16, 2014, 8:16 #57363

    Morning Badarse. Crystal ball gazing eh! Are you sure that youve not taken an hallucinatory drug or two though being a 60s child? Its just that you said 'no one moans any more'? If the majority of the pilgrims on here are around surely its a given that pessimism, moaning and whinging will still abound? They're drooling over these injury set backs. A new low now you'll note as Wenger gets the blame for Chambers tonsillitis et al. As Jeff would say, you couldn't make it up. COYG.

  20. BADARSE

    Sep 16, 2014, 8:13 #57362

    Mathew, I think Arsene Wenger means 'match fit', if you play the game that is a factor and different to just being fit enough to run around a lot. As the standard rises the gap between 'fit' and 'match fit' increases slightly. Another game or so and they will be firing in that respect, Pod however will still only be an impact sub I guess. Koh Tao. My wife and I back-packed there fourteen years ago. Wonderful place, but the world clicks on and now it becomes almost a no-go area. Don't think a Thai did it, though anyone can be corrupted. Sad, weltschmerz surrounds me.

  21. GBP

    Sep 16, 2014, 8:04 #57361

    DW - Im fairly sure that AWs bank balance is larger than mine. It might not be, but he must be feckless with money if it isnt and we all know thats not the case! Step up Bellerin. Here's your chance if picked. Quite a few players careers are launched in exactly these situations. I think its really good that we ve got a raft of really promising younger players again waiting for their chance. Fully expecting Hayden to see his name on the 1st team sheet shortly and i hope that he does.

  22. BADARSE

    Sep 16, 2014, 8:02 #57360

    Evening Athoz. Another beautiful morning here in paradise. Only time for a cuppa this morning, brekkie later. Busy until the end of the month, was out in the Boreham Wood area graffiti spraying AFC slogans yesterday, and again Thursday-I shall put all this foolishness behind me when I grow up, meanwhile here's to the mayhem! Here's a crystal ball report: Arsenal despite AW retiring in three years and removing himself upstairs, Arsenal fail to improve upon their current situation. A new manager arrives-nothing really changes as the big two continue to dominate having found enough loopholes to scupper the FFP. Sours are bought by rich Chinese tycoon and they become a giant 'Takeaway', but WHU are scooped up by rich Arabs as are WBA by a wealthy Russian. Suddenly within a blink of an eye AFC fall out of the top six and within ten years are a struggling club. Final ignominy is relegation four years later. They nearly bounce straight back, but don't. Five years on and we are a reasonable Championship side usually finishing seventh or eighth, playing in a giant monolith of an empty stadium. No one moans anymore, the newer generations only know what is in front of them and wish for the 2005-2020 period, alas those days are just history now, written on the yellowing pages of old AFC books. Some Arsenal fans remain, some have gone to the moon.

  23. Mathew

    Sep 16, 2014, 7:58 #57359

    Great reviews about Bellerin everywhere, hope he can provide ample cover until Debuchy returns. If he is good enough to play Spain U-19, he must've something in him. What I don't understand is Wenger still says the German trio is not yet fully fit from the world cup, ha ha ha, what a joke. I mean he has given enough reasons for our competitors to laugh at us, why does he need to add to it.

  24. Bard

    Sep 16, 2014, 6:53 #57358

    Three weeks into the season and we have an injury crisis at the back. Who would have predicted that. Groundhog Day is with us once again. Interesting analysis of the City game by Neville on sky last night, showing how Arsenal switched before the equaliser. Tactical indiscipline, who would have predicted that.

  25. Ozzie

    Sep 16, 2014, 4:06 #57357

    Thanks for answering my query Baddie. Well, by denying Citeh two points we've given Chel$ea a boost - ugh!

  26. DW Thomas

    Sep 16, 2014, 0:57 #57356

    GBP, I am starting to suspect you are Arsene Wenger. No matter what you spout on here it aligns perfectly with the manager! Like Ewoks praying to, C3PO, this group of Wenger lackeys just can't shut up about how great their Hero is! Mr. Super Fan and others acceptance of mediocrity really does beggar belief. Wenger's terrible decisions and inaction means we never fully compete. We have an injured, inadequate squad, AGAIN!! The only thing that slightly changes are the ridiculous excuses that get dragged out and merely hide the problems. The mindless regurgitation of the same, boring arguments is exhausting. Just once I'd like to see something, anything, done differently. No top striker, no top DM, no defensive cover, no balance in the team, no tactics, no spending in required players to complete the squad. You can dress up a pig to look like a supermodel, but its still always a pig. What angers me more than even our inability to get the team right is the lack of ambition that has so entirely permeated the brains of so many fans. It's like that movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Normal thinking Arsenal fans have been turned in to alien mugs with few rational thoughts, happy to accept failure. FFS, this is better than fiction! We are swimming in the bog of inferiority and few seem to care!

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 15, 2014, 22:45 #57354

    You really have to laugh seasons ago fans were saying thanks to our lack of ambition and our manager we're fourth at best it's all we can expect, others were saying but wait until OGL and his project youth comes to fruition then we'll be the bee's knees and show them, they/we didn't, then it was wait until OGL finds his magic hat again and his donkeys become good and fulfil their potential and we'll win all round us and rule Europe, they/we didn't, here we are now after all this time the same fans still saying the same, saying nothing has changed and it hasn't, after all this time OGL still hasn't found his magic hat (and never likely to) and we're still making the same mistakes, hearing the same excuses for failure from him and fans who thought/said be patient we'd come good, we haven't. Now those same fans are agreeing with what others said seasons ago (I wonder why)that we're fourth at best and maybe even scrape third and are quite happy with that. Ambition? non existent.

  28. jeff wright

    Sep 15, 2014, 21:41 #57353

    Baby gooner goes goo goo ...Badarse rushes to the loo loo to do a poo poo cling clang gong Badarse he gone gone... flip flap floo slog slog slog Badarse vanishes down the bog...

  29. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 15, 2014, 21:28 #57352

    Edmund, so OGL signing Chambers shows he's still good at spotting talent, yes other clubs, you didn't have to be on £8,million a season to see that, it wasn't exactly rocket science and he wasn't exactly plucked out of obscurity and coached and nurtured by OGL although he could well be ruined by him.

  30. BADARSE

    Sep 15, 2014, 21:17 #57351

    On the Ning Nang Nong, where the Bard goes, 'Bong!', and the moonies all say 'Boo!' There's a Nong Nang Ning, where jeff wright goes, 'Ping!' and the WOB's jibber jabber joo. On the Nong Ning Nang, all the AMG's go 'Clang!', and you just can't catch them when they do! So it's a Ning Nang Nong, Bard goes 'Bong!', Nong Nang Ning, jeff wright goes 'Ping!', Nong Ning Nang, AMG's go 'Clang!'. What a noisy place to belong is the Ning Nang Ning Nang Nong!

  31. BADARSE

    Sep 15, 2014, 20:47 #57350

    Yeah, that too jeff wright, without the financial 'knack' displayed in the last decade you may have been bemoaning a Championship side, or even worse, a team in the Sours situation. Fancy a game at right back?

  32. jeff wright

    Sep 15, 2014, 20:40 #57349

    Still looks to me like more sycophantic posturing by you Badarse . What is a sterling job anyway? Money making ?

  33. Hiccup

    Sep 15, 2014, 20:30 #57348

    Not taking any notice of Wenger's press conference statement until Super Fan has decoded it for the average fan. Sounds like "up the Swanee without a paddle but the financials are great" to me, but await confirmation.

  34. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 20:04 #57347

    Fozzy - yes. seems a tough situ to sort. When the Flam turns in a world class performance at RB, lets raise a glass to the OLG website as the harbinger of his new career shall we pal!! Ive always liked Flamini despite his many limitations and hope he does get the nod. One or two have suggested the kid Bellerin and its a good shout, but the present situation isnt right to try him is it? Seems a good lad though.

  35. Fozzy's mate

    Sep 15, 2014, 19:49 #57346

    GBP - your flamini full back suggestion may come quicker than you thought. Given wenger has just said debuchy and monreal are out tomorrow and chambers 50/50! This really is taking a paper thin squad to extremes

  36. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 19:41 #57345

    Embarrassments? You ll have to spell them out. 'Sanogo ideal'? Perhaps you can point that one out too. The two of you are barrel scrapers but its great fun reeling you in nontheless. foe 'declining to respond'- read not you're really not worth the effort.Thankfully there are a few of us not joining your mindless castigation of the Club nor the Wenger witchhunt. End of story really guys.

  37. BADARSE

    Sep 15, 2014, 19:01 #57344

    Join you jeff wright? You're having a laugh chum. I have tried explaining my personal position, tried offering some reasoned applications, tried defending the manager of my football club, when unfairly verbally attacked-being hit by a stone matters not a jot whether it was an Arsenal fan who threw it or a Sour-and explained my overall view of things. That doesn't make me a fool, a fence-sitter, happy to drop two points, it's really all very silly. I think the manager of my football club is doing a sterling job-end of! Now if you want to discuss his Catholicism that's another subject. Now chill fella, refocus and use your intelligence for the benefit of all, rather than ranting because Arsenal Football Club drew 2-2 with the current Champions. You have things to offer, table them.

  38. Hiccup

    Sep 15, 2014, 18:57 #57343

    I agree with your view GBP? What comes out of the club is usually b0llocks. But you seem to think you're the only one on here that can see through it. For instance, last month before the transfer deadline, the club said we had enough strike power and didn't need to buy. The average fan on here said that's a load of b0llocks and they'd better be joking. It was you that naively agreed with the announcement and went to great lengths to back the statement up, that Sanogo was ideal and something about don't want to spend, spend, spend? It seems the 'average' fan was on the pulse with this one, whereas in your 'defend wenger whatever sh!t he says' capacity, left you not for the first time, with egg on your face. But please feel free to translate any further announcements made by the club for the benefit of the average fan

  39. Why have we only got 6 defenders (and maybe one OAP)?

    Sep 15, 2014, 18:55 #57342

    GBP- I'm not surprised you are declining to respond, there are one or two embarrassments in there for you, aren't there? Don't worry though, I'll bring up all the points again in future posts. You already know I'm not one to forget.

  40. jeff wright

    Sep 15, 2014, 18:50 #57341

    Badarse, so what is it then,Wenger is not doing as good as he should be,but so what let's all just get behind him or he doing well and all of his critics are just fools who don't really understand what a momentous job he is doing. Or does the truth lie somewhere between the two and it is best just to accept what is on offer and say nothing. Now it seems to me that many are aware of the great ones short-comings but because they are happy to put up with them and the Keystone Kops type duff defending season after season then everyone else should be. At least you have steered away from the economic claims that GBP espouses for excuses , then again with your track record on such affairs it is probably just as well that you have. You need to get down off that wooden fence that you are sitting on and pull the splinters out of your arse ,then you might be able to provide more logical views other than the pernicious diatribes that you have posted that are just abusive attacks on others dressed up as being middle of the road reasonable views that ignorant cretins should take heed of.

  41. Fozzy's mate

    Sep 15, 2014, 18:35 #57340

    As anyone on here knows I've been banging on about dough trousering for many years and I think the penny re us not using our ever increasing cash reserves has finally dropped. GBP I think is looking for a conspiracy theory rather than the facts. The published accounts do not lie that is assuming fraud is not in play. For whatever reason a conscious decision was made some time ago to spend what was required to stay in the top 4. Whether made by Wenger, the Denver Dough trouserer or both together who knows but it won't change, the defender debacle is evidence of that.

  42. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 18:33 #57339

    oh dearie me! 'Hiccup' - once you come up with some thing to prove my view a wrong one, i promise ill listen. 'Why have we' - Must try harder. Both of you, fully paid up members of the hot air brigade. Try a new approach guys. This one isn't working so well is it?

  43. BADARSE

    Sep 15, 2014, 18:19 #57338

    jeff wright, let me just nail this before there is a metamorphosis and the ground undertakes another of your seismic shifts. 'As long as Arsene Wenger has people like GoonerRon and some others backing him, why should he care?'-Firstly, do you really believe that because a person doesn't want to be a part of an unruly lynch mob that he is a supporter? I can speak for pretty much all of those you oppose, we are neutral, do not see the need for an uprising or rebellion and are relatively speaking satisfied with the status quo. OK? Not backers in the accepted sense, but defenders of a man certainly. Secondly, do you seriously believe that in not joining your silly insurrection these people actually influence the powers that be, just by a tacit refusal in becoming a 'Captain Jack Sparrow', of a rebel? These are fundamental flaws in your assumptions, but you are not alone, this critique is common to most detractors, so gentlefolk, if the cap fits-wear it!

  44. Hiccup

    Sep 15, 2014, 18:14 #57337

    Congratulations go to GBP. You've gone over 24 hours without one contradiction made. Still sticking firmly to the theory that the club is saving all it's cash for the next manager. When our cash reserves reach £500m and we still only have a handful of defenders, you'll be trotting out the line we need to save for a rainy day. Your10.08am post has tickled me. So the average fan as you call them, doesn't understand the mechanics of it all, whereas you, Mr Super Fan do. So when the club decided to move ground, they explained it in the manner that we were moving to be able to compete for trophies. That was how it was explained to your average fan, but Mr Super Fan knew all along this was a lie. The point is you've got it all wrong. Your average fan can now see behind all the lies and smoke and mirrors. The average fan can see they're being taken for a mug. It's the self proclaimed super fans that the clubs bxllshxt is working on. You are the dream ticket for this financial fleecing. Not only don't you mind paying top dollar for mediocrity, you even defend yourself being taken for a fool. But thanks for sharing your superior wisdom with the average fans on here.

  45. Why have we only got 6 defenders (and maybe one OAP)?

    Sep 15, 2014, 18:07 #57336

    GBP- If he's of a similar persuasion to yourself I'm sure he'll believe anything I tell him. Apologies for my petty barb earlier, but perhaps it was born of the fact that scrolling back over your posts confirmed that it's impossible to detect the slightest professional business acumen, bar the bleedin obvious. Fair amount of mud-slinging in there though, I'll give you credit for that. I assume you know that the club accounts are available to read online, feel free to peruse at your leisure and enlighten us unconverted burger-flipping moaners (I wouldn't start at cash balances though, you'll have kittens). Re your post 60600 and 'your comment fails to recognise that there's a big difference in blindly accepting whatever we re told and whinging incessantly about each and every aspect of things that we disagree with', well actually Einstein I reckon every single person on here recognises the difference. You do one and I do the other, that's why we're on opposite sides of the fence. You predictably ignored the first half of my post as it contained inconvenient truths, but let's hope no-one persuaded fans of Dortmund, Liverpool and Atletico that their clubs weren't 'equipped to do better right now', they might have missed the ride of their lives.

  46. jeff wright

    Sep 15, 2014, 17:47 #57335

    GR, no matter how much spin you put on things the fact remains that we dropped 2 points at home in a game that we were in a position to win and ended up nearly losing . However if you think that there were positives to be drawn from then you are entitled to hold that view. Me I just saw the old failings in midfield and defence cancelling out thegood work done in scoring our 2 goals and until I see an improvement in this area then I will remain pessimistic. What you say about Wenger's record in getting top 4 finishes is true but it could lead to complacency because it's a different situation this season with 5 teams genuinely competing for 4 places. Even Jamie can work out that 5 into 4 doesn't go. Wenger's has not faced this situation before so it's new terrortry for him ,he got 4th last term due to United under Moyes imploding and there has been some close calls in the past where it went to the last day before 4th spot was secured . When I last checked the league table we were doing worse than last season hwen we had 9 points from 4 played,this time it's 6 ,that's just half of what we could have had. As I said before the Villa away game is a big one now because we are dropping too many points. There is nothing to be complacent about and instead of making up excuses for this Wenger should be trying to sort it out,I won't hold my breath on that happening though because histrack record for doing that is not a good one,but hey so long as he has supporters like you and some others backing him why should he care it's always a case with him anyway of blaming everything else even his players. As the French say a mauvais ouvrier point de bon outil.

  47. smithy

    Sep 15, 2014, 16:59 #57334

    I agree with DJ - Bellerin could be a revelation in the right back role and alternate BFG, kos and Chambers in the ct back positions.Unfortunately Arsene has gambled and the injury jinx has hit us again.As to comments on this site about Diaby being the answer he's about as reliable as a chocolate tea pot!

  48. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 16:06 #57333

    Bard - dab that sweaty brow young man. You are strongly advised to refrain from watching the Chelsea hammering. I say this as your learned colleagues on here are confidently predicting another and newer version coming very soon. A double helping isn't going to assist your recovery now is it?

  49. BADARSE

    Sep 15, 2014, 15:52 #57332

    That was very funny Bard, I cannot stay mad at you, you truly are the Dark Lord Moony. Good old solitary confinement, good old tranquilisers, good old remedial therapy, good old straight jacket, and good old Arsenal.

  50. GoonerRon

    Sep 15, 2014, 15:52 #57331

    @ Jeff - conceding the last goal didn't negate the work of getting back into it. Getting back into it meant we had a chance to take some points when otherwise we'd have had none. And presumably us relying on good fortune to stay in it at the end (i.e. our keeper making saves and them hitting the woodwork) was the same good fortune City relied on to stay in it? I'd love to see the statistical evidence of Wenger risking talking us into mid-table - although I'd imagine 18 years of consecutively finishing in 1st to 4th positions put paid to it anyway.

  51. Bard

    Sep 15, 2014, 15:45 #57330

    Jamie/ Peter: I took notice of your post a while ago. When Man City scored their first goal there was a collective sigh around me. I stood up and I bellowed abuse at their disloyalty and bed wetting antics, I managed to twat few with my computer before the stewards hauled me away. I'm awaiting psychiatric assessment somewhere in North London. They asked me 3 questions on admission. Did I believe in father christmas, the tooth fairy and that Arsenal want to challenge for titles. Of course I said yes to all three.I apparently suffer from 'distorted reality' syndrome. its an inablity to accept reality.But worse than that the treatment is having to watch all our recent humiliations back to back. I will spend weeks in here going through that lot, but apparently it will cure me. I hope to be back a chastened fan for the next home game because I now see the light. Excuse me I have to get back to watching the Chelsea hammering.

  52. DJ

    Sep 15, 2014, 15:36 #57329

    Looking forward I hope Bellerin is given his chance at right back. I know it’s not ideal with the lack of options in defence but as Chambers is only viable option at centre half I think young Hector should be given an extended run in the side.

  53. BADARSE

    Sep 15, 2014, 14:54 #57328

    David, I think you are guessing, and hoping. That is fine but you mustn't say another's view is wrong, when you have nothing to back up what you say. Next you will be blaming everything on Arsene, again without anything to back it up, and criticising another's 'wrong' view.

  54. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 14:51 #57327

    Why have we - thanks and much obliged. Not done so badly despite not being the poet laureate. When youre reduced to pointing out punctuation its a sure sign you know you've lost the argument. If you're handing drinks out with your burgers, tell the punters their glass is half full not half empty and break the habit of a lifetime.

  55. David

    Sep 15, 2014, 14:41 #57326

    Matthew - ignore BADARSE - God hears everything; doesn't mean he likes what you say, though.

  56. BADARSE

    Sep 15, 2014, 14:38 #57325

    jeff, sing up, 'Any old irony, any old irony...', some good responses chaps, well done GoonerRon, and that stalwart GBP. reboot, any player, like you or I, can only give 100%. Alexis has that work rate imprinted in his DNA, and will always be a part of the player he is, that is also true of Mesut. They are different types, and shall remain so. Of course to colder countries like our one, people have run around ad infinitum and that too is imprinted-run around to keep warm! Spoken in jest but can be true with some individuals. It certainly would be a bonus if Mesut upped his work rate, but what if his engine couldn't sustain it and his performance level dropped? A bit of a conundrum there. I prefer to see how it develops and am pleased with both players, Alexis more than Mesut perhaps, but I thought he was involved on Saturday, and was trying to find that incisive pass.

  57. JAMIE

    Sep 15, 2014, 14:20 #57324

    It seems the OG's been taken over by the dark bores,too predictable, see you in the future.

  58. Why have we only got 6 defenders (and maybe one OAP)?

    Sep 15, 2014, 14:06 #57323

    GBP- Wow, you know my work history, that's spooky! Congratulations though on reaching the highest echelons of the business world despite a distinct lack of punctuation skills! I'll give you a longer reply later, but I'm afraid my shift is just about to start. Enjoy your board meeting, I'm off to flip some burgers.

  59. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 14:01 #57322

    Fozzy - agree with every word you say. Its a sport thats had its lifeblood squeezed from it in so many ways. In fairness for us football fans, the reality of what its become from what it once was is a tough process to accept.I think all football fans still mainly see it in an idealised sense where once we had heroes and players who were as one with fans etc etc. Its all gone hasnt it and the new hard faced clinical sterility of it now doesn't sit well with those of us who just loved the pure warts and all 'football'. Its this that creates the basis for the rows us fans have within all of the Clubs not just Arsenal.

  60. David

    Sep 15, 2014, 13:57 #57321

    Agreed - entertaining game of football, and great value. However, hard to believe that £100 million can be spent and the side hasn't improved. Still no closer to beating a good side, or being a good side. Only one chap responsible...

  61. Fozzy's mate

    Sep 15, 2014, 13:44 #57320

    GBP - some interesting debate on sky sunday supp yeaterday about foreign owners being silent. Silent Stan picked Gazidis as his stooge but his spin and politics was met with brickbats from the likes of us so now Ivan is not the terrible but the invisible. Its a different world and unlike in the glory days of 10-15 years ago we are not trying to win the league in the true sense of trying. I understand others frustations and feel them myself but see no point in crying for change when it will simply not happen. For the last thirty years its given me something to do and talk about and that wont change. Football is simply about cash for the owners and players now. One good thing about the Manure bring and buy sale was that it busted the myth of players only wanting to play for chamions league clubs, with them deserting those in that league for Manure. Pay them and they will come! Sagna got a luke warm reception on Saturday, he will get used to warming the bench.

  62. jeff wright

    Sep 15, 2014, 13:41 #57319

    GR, surely though us tossing away the win and 2 points like drunken jocks throwing confetti about at a wedding in Glasgow negates the good work that was done in getting us into a 2-1 lead ? As I said before there was a familiar or even deja vu look to our conceding that late equalizer and then having to rely on good fortune to not lose the match. However,if you think that dropping 2 points at home to add to the 95 previously lost in recent games against top sides by Wenger ,just 27 won,then that is your prerogative. I just see this, along with other statistics, showing that Wenger is risking taking us into midtable mediocrity .He chances his arm with weak squads in the Prem on getting 4th every season and has an annual hapless punt at trying to win the European Cup that always, bar on two occasions, ends in the KO stages when we play a top side . There have been reports that Stan uses AFC for collateral to raise cash for his other outfits in the USA and he is happy enough so long as the club is making money. Let's face it he is no Rom jumping up and down in excitement in the directors box when his side score. Then again the 42m Stan wasted on Ozil must be irking him,he will never see a profit on that or by the look of things anything else either of any note. You couldn't make it up.

  63. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 13:29 #57318

    Fozzy - ... and until there's a 'nil' in the debit column of the stadium debt, the Club will only use its resources in the way it does right now. Rightly so in my view. Arsene is here just to see us through the last remaining choppy waters, though the good ship AFC can see land, even the harbour lights on the horizon now. Its right that when we do change Coach that he comes in without having to be as concious of the deeper financial situ as Arsene has had to be for so long. In not so long from now, we will be dishing out plaudits and heartfelt thanks to Arsene Wenger. Will these on here who've spent years insulting, debasing and demeaning him be able look in the mirror when others more sensible will do? Some of the bare faced idiots (look on here each day and im sure you know them) wont whince, but many will have the decency to do so hopefully. We re so lucky that these people are and will remain as irrelevant voices in the dark.

  64. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 13:18 #57317

    Why have we - i mean every word that i say. Your comment fails to recognise that there's a big difference in blindly accepting whatever we re told and whinging incessantly about each and every aspect of things that we disagree with. You choose to bellyache, i dont, therein lies a big difference between us and while I'm content to look for positives in what we do, you and others never do. The Club isn't equipped to do better right now. You need to get your head out of the cloud or from up your rear end, wherever its buried. OK, there's maybe some peripheral extra yardage to be gained under a new Coach at Arsenal, but to raise the bar to the point that you illusionists believe a new Coach would raise it to is in my view a dubious proposition and not one that's backed by any convincing argument, plus i am also firmly of the view that we re already in progress of the transition from Arsene to A N Other. The Club chooses not to say this publicly which is right in my view.If you had the remotest idea of how a large business conducts its affairs you might understand too.

  65. Fozzy's mate

    Sep 15, 2014, 13:13 #57316

    GBP - not a bad shout re Flamini who may be a decent fill in at RB again. But again squad wise robbing Peter to feed Paul as he is one of our only 2 "holding" players. Your assessment of us fighting for 3rd/4th is accurate, which realistically has been our ambition for the last 8 seasons in any case. We have never fully used the resources at our disposal (bank balance) and this wont change.

  66. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 13:03 #57315

    Gooner Ron - Had to smile at your 'irony' reference to Jeff. So true, and you're not making it up for sure. You clearly weren't yawning either when you picked up on it! Jeff is the vanguard of the Wenger outers, yet ironically just as with Arsene, he has a stock comment, real or imaginary to suit whichever the way the wind blows towards him. Hes like Thomas More is Jeff, a man for all Seasons indeed.

  67. Peter Wain

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:58 #57314

    The midfield is too small and light weight against top quality sides. Wait until Chelski get amongst them. Also the lack of height and defensive awareness for the second goal was awful. As was the fact that the left back was nowhere to be seen when Navas got the ball. Same old failings we never seem to learn,

  68. Why have we only got 6 defenders (and maybe one OAP)?

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:57 #57313

    GBP- The problem is that we don't rattle cages every now and then, do we? We don't rattle cages at all. Everyone I know accepts that we can't challenge to the death every year for the PL and CL, but while Wenger never manages it, other rather more astute managers here and abroad with less resources have shown cage rattling to be very possible. I know you've already stated that you simply accept whatever the club says or does, but I'm sure you don't actually mean the depressing '3rd/4th is as good as its going to get' stuff. Really wouldn't be any point being a fan of The Arsenal, one of the richest football clubs in the world, if you did.

  69. GoonerRon

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:54 #57312

    @ Jeff - if what you say is true and we were quite flat when turning the game around (not that I necessarily agree), surely it shows the most character possible to turn a game around in those circumstances, no? Whilst I'm sure you would have preferred for us to lie down and die at 1-0 down, I certainly prefer the way it panned out where we got back into it and earned the right to take something from the game (we could have lost, so could they too). Yes, it was incredibly frustrating to not see it out but certainly the course of the game in the end was preferrable to have never got back in it at all. Lastly, as for your comment 'You have to look at the bigger picture and not pick out parts that suit your argument' you could choke on the irony of that coming from you. To coin a phrase you like, you couldn't write it.

  70. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:46 #57311

    Fozzy - Flamini hasnt ever been a quality middle man but as we are id give him the RB spot. Hes right footed and several years ago in the CL Final Season he showed as a good LB.Can he still do it? I don't know, but ive always thought his designs on playing midfield were a little bit misplaced. There will be games for Hayden and Chambers in central defence. Yes, errors will occur but they must have their chances and why not?

  71. reboot

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:38 #57310

    What concerns me is will the likes of Alexis continue to give 150% when all the good work he and others do is undone by sloppy defending? Its exasperating for us onlookers, just imagine how it must feel when you´ve worked your socks off to get in that winning position only for defensive weakness to ruin it. The look on his face at the end of the game was not good.

  72. jeff wright

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:36 #57309

    GR, there is a glaring anomaly in your argument ,you say we showed great character in coming from behind to lead 2-1 although when Sanchez volleyed the goal we were actually looking rather flat and it came against the run of play. Anyway we ended up all over the gaff in the last 10 minutes and as Wenger admitted we could have finished up losing . We lack cohesion and consistency during games we blow hot and cold and only look good when attacking at tempo,once the pace of the game drops our defenders look like frightened rabbits caught in the lights of an oncoming articulated lorry. What is the point of showing character to take a 2-1 lead if we can't defend it? You have to look at the bigger picture and not pick out parts that suit your argument.You can make a case for us showing character to get that 2-1 lead and equally make one for a lack of it in losing the lead and nearly the game with a few minutes left to play.

  73. Tony Evans

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:30 #57308

    So a handful of games in to the season and we are down to 5 defenders, one of which is Gibbs, who is usually Diaby's best friend in the treatment room! Surely any fool could see that our lack of cover at the back was an accident waiting to happen, especially one on £8M a year! At least this sort of shocking mis-management doesn't annoy me now as it is what I have come to expect from Wenger.

  74. Fozzy's mate

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:29 #57307

    I am not involved in the prior arguments and think we actaully played pretty well on the whole. For the first goal for City Flamini aka the walking booking was sleeping and the 2nd a header from a cross has been seen so many times in recent years it cant come as a shock to anyone. As Arsene would say we showed great spirit throughout the middle part of the 2nd half. The Debuchy injury stopped the flow when we were on top but it is more worrying in the longer term. In a way we were fortunate Giroud got injured during the open window as it forced OGLS hand re Wellbeck. But to have 6 defenders on the books for 4 positions with the semi-permanantly injured Gibbs included is a disaster waiting to happen. What happens now. The fear is that as with Gallas and Vermaelen in TVS first season, Kos and BFG have to play every league and cup game leading to one or both (as in that season) with long term injuries and us ending up with an OAP Campbell and Silvestre paired. Like and possibly more than most I am encouraged going forward but worried about the defence. I am also slightly worried about Manures potential to challenge us for the FPT this season although they have simlar problems at the back even if they are now stronger going forward. Daley Blind looked like a decent holder for them which is another obvious position of weakness. Arteta is struggling legs and injury wise and Flamini will be booked in almost every game he plays. Our attack will scare lots of teams particularly when Walcott returns but we will be scared by our defence.

  75. jeff wright

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:15 #57306

    This yawn inducing pedantic grammatical correction is an improvement on your jokes Pudd . But still boring .Have you nothing better to do?

  76. Edmund

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:13 #57305

    The biggest problem I have with Wenger is he is always nearly there but stubbornly falls short. Even with Fabregas he had a buy back first option. Brilliant. But what does he do when he has the chance to get him back? Let him go to Chelsea. Now with a stronger team he just needs a strong DM to start winning. Poldi had almost recruited Khedira but Wenger almost got rid of Poldi instead. On the other hand signing Chambers shows Wenger still knows how to spot young talent. We can only hope he will sign some unknown who will become a world class DM. But I suspect he is waiting for Diaby to be fit. Lets hope the medical team improves our injury stats.

  77. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:06 #57304

    Bard - i agree footballs miles over priced now in many ways vis other forms of entertainment even though football s slightly hybrid type of 'entertainment' isn't it. On the defensive stuff, im quite happy to agree that its Wengers weakest aspect. For many years our defence hasnt been in sync with our middle and front. Too often left over exposed by the style of play and also containing a few players who while honest servants arent/havent been quite up to scratch really. A good defence demands an overall style of play less ambitious though and less expansive, more a team machine mentality. Defence by definition is weaker in an attacking teams and theres a price to pay. Arsene W has been happy to pay it by and large whereas the fans find it hard to stomach. Its goes awry though when the forwards and middle dont keep offering up the 'compensation' as we havent consistently for a year or two.In fairness to the Club ive long accepted that theres a dearth of good central defenders now. The defending throughout the PL is quite poor to average. Its the mad pre occupation with TV demanded and dictated football and the rules off football that are now so heavily biased to favour forwards. Ive never agreed with it being this way and defending now must be a pretty awful task. We used to laud the top defenders and accept defending as an art, albeit a black one at times, now its a sideshow and' necessary evil' it seems to most coaches, not just Wenger. It cant be right.

  78. jeff wright

    Sep 15, 2014, 12:03 #57303

    Wenger's remit is obviously to try and finish 3rd in the Prem and that is job done he rarely gets third though and usually has to make do with 4th place that only guarantees a Europey Cup place with a qualifier needing to be won to play in the European Cup. The question of with the resources available could he do better than that is obviously yes .Chelsea finished outside the top 5 a couple of seasons ago and Liverpool with less resources than Chelsea and us finished ahead of them last term and came close to beating City to the title. I believe that it's a lack of ambition on Wenger's part that leaves him scratching about like a dog looking for a buried bone in the garden at the end of every season in his fight for 4th place. Had he had more courage and ambition he would have paid the 50m for Suarez when he had the chance our players were up for that signing and it must have been a big let down to find themselves stuck instead with Giroud. This is like a man promising his wife a Ferrari for her birthday and she ends up instead with Citroen . Wenger was forced into having to sign Ozil for 42m in the end after the disastrous start to the season against Villa, they will be trying again to chuck another spaner in the works for our ambitions at the weekend. So there was a chance last season to do better than 4th place and even to possibly get first,but Wenger blew it and wasted the resources that he had available in the end on a player that made not one iota of difference to our season. We are in midtable at present after 4 played and with only a point more than United who have had a poor start but have signed a number of top class players recently to try and improve their position . Our game against Villa suddenly looks tougher than it did on paper when the fixtures were released.

  79. Paul Pudd

    Sep 15, 2014, 11:51 #57302

    The saying is "not the sharpest knife in the drawer", Jeff.

  80. DJ

    Sep 15, 2014, 11:41 #57301

    Don’t wish to sound smug but what the hell everyone else on here does however, keeping Ozil and not resigning Cesc is looking more and more foolish by the game. As I posted in July some players are more suited to the Premier League than others and as much as I wish to be proved wrong I feel Mesut is more suited to a less physical league. I know the season is in its infancy but as much I despise the man I reckon Mourinho has got one over our manager again!

  81. Bard

    Sep 15, 2014, 11:33 #57300

    GBP: I don't disagree with the substance of your post although its implicit that Arsenal are screwing us fans to protect the share price. I don't have a problem with that either only that it contradicts the argument that there is a morally superior 'Arsenal way'. Where we probably disagree is that I believe others could do a better job with our resources than Wenger. I will be interested to read those who support him so avidly presenting an argument for our present defensive frailty both in terms of personnel and tactics.

  82. patrick

    Sep 15, 2014, 11:25 #57299

    There should be a competition on here to see who can offer the most sane reason why there was no centre half purchased (this could well be harder to win than the national lottery). djourou, vermalen, Miguel out chambers in. the wage bill cutting per chance? or maybe there wasn't anyone available in the world who could improve the quality of the squad?? monreal blunder at centre half to gift an opposition victory anyone? odds on that? what shocking management of the squad

  83. jeff wright

    Sep 15, 2014, 11:25 #57298

    Pudding youare not the sharpest knife in the draw and I suggest that you give up on your heavy handed attempts at humor . A piece of advice in your shell like the same gag can only be used once in a thread and after that it becomes like old bread - stale. Just saying like in case you think you are clever and witty ,to save you from embarrassing yourself again.

  84. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 10:26 #57297

    Bard - 3rd/4th is as good as its going to get so Arsenal are competing relatively and are reaching a level that's possible. Like it or not AFC are 'successful' and success is defined in ways that even 15 years ago it wasnt so defined. Behind closed doors i have no doubt that AFC have long accepted that they cant consistently challenge the really top Clubs for honours anymore and that if they do in any given season, AFC will need an inordinate amount of luck and good fortune to do so. What they dont do in todays glitzy money fuelled and media/social media marketed game is come out and say it in ways that the average fan can understand. To do so would send share values to lower levels and put reality where at the moment there is irrational hope in punters and sponsors minds. Youre smart enough im sure to know this really without asking the questions that you have and without parroting the 'we hate everything about Wenger, even the colour of his socks' buffoons that whinge on here every day like kids with missing dummies. Sadly, its about being satisfied with what we ve got, which isnt half so bad as you or others might think.

  85. Bard

    Sep 15, 2014, 10:08 #57296

    Westie: I agree with you for once although I suggest 3rd best is optimistic. However you're post raises a number of questions. Could we be doing performing better with the resources we have ? Are the club acknowledging that we can't realistically compete ? For me the answer to the first question is yes and to the second do. Athletico have just beaten RM away having sold their best players. So its possible to compete without the requisite resources.. Meanwhile we are going to Dortmund with no room for manoeuvre defensively having not signed back up defenders. If someone can explain the logic of that position, I'm open to persuasion.

  86. GBP

    Sep 15, 2014, 10:07 #57295

    Westie - therein lies the issue that many of the posters on here cant/wont address i.e. accepting that football both here and abroad for the foreseeable future is and will remain to dominated by the rich Clubs. Arsenal and Liverpool et al will remain onlookers but every now and then will rattle a cage or two. The groan and grump brigade on here (the majority of the posters save for a few such as yourself sadly)try to have it both ways. They make out they don't want to Arsenal blowing cash on players they cant afford, yet at the same time wont be happy unless Arsenal have complete, all purpose teams like City and Chelsea. They're constantly conflicted hence their angst and dissatisfaction with the Club and Wenger. They ll always need a scapegoat as a result and the obvious and simplest candidate is Wenger. In fairness to them, our great history has always marked Arsenal down as a 'top' or 'big' Club and the fact now that we arent in the same dining room as Chelsea and City or United makes them feel cheapened. Their football fan 'virility' feeling vis other fans has been impugned as they lack the maturity to accept the dominating order in football has gone the way it has.Its almost as if they see shame in it and embarrassment that Arsenal aren't really a major player in the game. The very real fact that we ve never had a dynasty or long period of being absolutely all powerful in the modern game or arguably in our history (taking account the 30s period) anyway and notwithstanding the new order of things has either escaped them or they choose deliberately to not accept it. You wont open closed eyes and minds Westie sadly.

  87. chris dee

    Sep 15, 2014, 9:31 #57294

    Same old problems,lack of defensive organisation and a lack of power and physicality compared to the top teams.

  88. Tony Evans

    Sep 15, 2014, 9:18 #57293

    So Debuchy could be out for up to 3 months, and with Chambers deputising we now have no proper cover at centre half. How has that happened? Wenger is always so thorough and never leaves us open to that sort of problem!

  89. Why have we only got 6 defenders (and maybe one OAP)?

    Sep 15, 2014, 9:07 #57292

    Westlower- Not sure how betting odds can define success or failure, I reckon 2 semi-finals in 16 years tells you all you need to know.

  90. Westlower

    Sep 15, 2014, 8:54 #57291

    @DWT, However much we all wish AFC to be top dogs, we are no better than third best in PL this season & 7th best in ECL. Despite people claiming AFC are unfairly seeded as 7th best, the bookies odds suggest our seeding is about right. CFC & Man City have complete teams, which are both performing at the top of their game. Arsenal are stronger this year but realistically we still lag behind the big two. It's an undeniable fact that money buys success in football & we simply can't match the mega rich clubs. That's not to say we still can't have a great season, buy some marquee players and rattle a few cages. Our future hope lies mainly in our younger players improving to a level where we can compete with the cheque book clubs. There are only 6 clubs, RM, BM, Barca, Man C, CFC & PSG at shorter prices to win the ECL, all of them richer clubs than AFC, so we're hardly failures. We are priced at the same odds as Atletico Madrid & that is where we're at right now. On average, the winners of the ECL over the past 11 years (since it was revamped to it's current form) have only won 62% of their games. It's very rare for one club to stroll through all the various stages unbeaten. No back to back winners since the competition was revamped highlights how difficult the ECL is to win.

  91. GoonerRon

    Sep 15, 2014, 8:47 #57290

    @ Jeff - a decent effort at deflecting from the single point in hand there. I'm sure you'll agree, however, that you saying all key decisions went for us is inaccurate. I'm certainly not jumping up and down with joy but am balanced enough to be pissed off at conceding the late equaliser but to also acknowledge that coming from behind to get ahead showed character and displayed some hugely encouraging quality.

  92. Paul Pudd

    Sep 15, 2014, 8:46 #57289

    Just try to remember, Jeff. Kolo was the one that played for us.

  93. jeff wright

    Sep 14, 2014, 23:32 #57288

    Ah! so... the forum sub-editor Dick Head points out that its Yaya not Kolo ya ya ya ... wow! Actually it is also 'it's 'and not'its' . I have told you before Dick that if you are going to pull me up on mistakes them make sure that you are not making any yourself,otherwise you just look a bigger Dick than you normally are. You couldn't make it up.

  94. jeff wright

    Sep 14, 2014, 23:19 #57287

    GR , I was feeling narky after we again fell to pieces in defence at the end of a game and my comments sprung from angst and frustration at Wenger's failings in not trying to stiffen our resolve against the big sides .His record against them these days says that he is the problem with these bad results.I'm not one of those who jumps up and down with joy when we toss away a winning lead at home with a few minutes left and then try to pretend that it doesn't matter because it was an exciting game to watch. This is losers talk and it comes about through the brainwashing of some of our supporters into accepting second best ,a case of mutton dressed up as lamb by Wenger, the specialist in failure.

  95. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 14, 2014, 23:07 #57286

    SKG, I doubt very much there is any criticism, that's been the problem for too long too many yes men with no balls, but I suppose they wouldn't be listened to anyway.

  96. DW Thomas

    Sep 14, 2014, 23:04 #57285

    27 from 93 points now? How bad must things get vs our so called rivals before the team holes are filled to improve that stat. I'd to hear the Wenger apologist excuses on that stat. Explain that one for me with some other argument than money or a stadium move. You can't keep using those and want to be taken seriously anymore!

  97. GoonerRon

    Sep 14, 2014, 22:48 #57284

    @ Jeff - we're not talking about fouls at corners which is a different argument - all of the incidents I am talking about we're in normal and had the decisions home against Citeh they could have been down to 9. I just think saying ALL key decisions went for us is unbalanced and serves only to fuel your anti-Wenger argument.

  98. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 14, 2014, 22:45 #57283

    Mathew, no need to worry our saviour Diaby can fill in, for a couple of weeks anyway.

  99. Wright is always wrong

    Sep 14, 2014, 22:41 #57282

    Jeff. Its YAYA not kolo. Nearly got there though.

  100. jeff wright

    Sep 14, 2014, 22:31 #57281

    GR, if refs applied the law on CB's tackles and fouls on corners such as shirt pulling then every game woud see all teams finishing wth 9 men! The reality is that they tend to give free-kicks in non-dangerous areas often in the build up toward goal scoring chances.

  101. GoonerRon

    Sep 14, 2014, 22:23 #57280

    @ Jeff - you're right in that you win some and lose some - but you didn't say that did you - you said the ref gave every important decision which isn't the case. I'd imagine Citeh having their DM's from each half sent off might have caused them a slight issue. Oh and also, it's a bit of a playground argument to say that Stoke beat Citeh so why couldn't we? Leicester beat Stoke and we drew with Leicester so doesn't that make us better than Stoke who are better than Citeh?

  102. jeff wright

    Sep 14, 2014, 22:13 #57279

    Well GR ,Jack said that he was fortunate to get away with his use of an arm to control the ball with in our goal area. I didn't see any penalty incidents by City players,and there were fouls committed by our players in the build up to our two goals. Some you win some you lose that's football,my point though was that the ref found in our favor whereas on another day he might not have,but Wenger still came up short after we had somehow got ourselves into a winning position, I was getting ready to offer some optimistic thoughts on a title bid,but drat it I will now after having all my illusions shattered again have to make do with convincing myself that a 4th place fight with United and Liverpool will be 'exciting'. C' est la vie !

  103. GoonerRon

    Sep 14, 2014, 21:44 #57278

    @ Jeff - The ref gave all the key decisions to us? How about Milner not getting a single yellow when he had 2 possibly 3 yellow card challenges? How about Fernandinho not getting a second yellow for kicking the ball away? Obviously mentioning these wouldn't flow very well with agenda.

  104. jeff wright

    Sep 14, 2014, 21:43 #57277

    MG, somehow I can't see Wenger sitting on a riverbank holding his rod and waiting for the float to dip after some gullible fish swallows the bait on the his hook .He is too stressed out and individual to partake in relaxing pasttimes and beach volley ball , no tactical signals with his fingers behind his back of course, is more his forte . Mao t's Tung once claimed though that f a man sits long enough fishing on a river bank eventually all of his enimies bodies will float past him. Unfortunately he died before he could prove that true . Somehow I think we will wait in vain for Arsene to win a title again now or the holy grail that he so craves.

  105. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 14, 2014, 21:22 #57276

    jw, maybe they could send him over here for a few days fishing we all like a lie in as well.

  106. GBP

    Sep 14, 2014, 21:15 #57275

    Jeff. Arsenal could appoint next doors cat as our coach and id still support the cat and encourage it! The day football gets me as melancholy as it gets you i ll give it up. Carry on hoping for a raft of mega bucks players and hoping for a thrusting top notch 45 year old coach whos going to reject all comers to join Arsenal if you want too chap. When you wake from your florid dream, ill still be here and youll still be groaning like an overloaded sludgepump.

  107. Roy

    Sep 14, 2014, 21:06 #57274

    The lack of defensive options in the squad is going to cost us big time later in the season. To those on here who think that the DM issue is not an important one, are you seriously saying that you wouldn't like to see a Matic protecting our often fragile central defence and frequently missing in action full backs ? Its also blatantly obvious that Ozil needs to be switched to a more central position in order to get the best out of him, especially now that there's a bit more pace going forward with Alexis and Welbeck on board. But, even if all this came to pass, we have a manager who sets his team out the same way home or away whoever the opposition regardless of personnel. No other top manager does this, they make special provision for any circumstances taking into account the oppositions strengths/potential weaknesses, and if that means changing personnel or formation so be it. It's been a long time since we could just send out our best XI and ' let the other team worry about us ' as the saying used to go, we're not that good. However, mixing things up a bit tactically could go a long way to making up for that but this man doesn't seem to see it. Let's face it, we don't have the worst squad in the world, do we ? And a bit more flexibility could close that gap to the Chavs and Citeh a little, that's why it's so frustrating. That said, not a bad performance yesterday, but it's another desperate scrap for 4th I'm afraid.

  108. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 14, 2014, 20:55 #57273

    TJ, he's been pushing his luck and relying on it for a number of years now, the Competition he treated with disdain for seasons bailed him out last season, his luck is going to run out eventually.

  109. BADARSE

    Sep 14, 2014, 20:41 #57272

    jeff you use democracy as you use your words and your point of view, like a scythe. Democracy is a concept, better in theory than in practise, it really only exists in the minds of men. It will become defunct though, you are witnessing it's demise, the banks, terrorism, scarcity of resources, global warming, emerging and submerging markets, wars, religions and don't forget, Sky TV. However Democracy in it's truest form has a need of consideration, understanding and fair judgement-otherwise it is worthless-of which often you have deficiencies in all three. It is bluster, loud noises and put downs, which you generally offer, in order to mask and distort. Sad because you do have valid points to make.

  110. jeff wright

    Sep 14, 2014, 20:21 #57271

    GBP,we are always a work in progress,every season,that is old news. Wenger's had 18 years to get things sorted,if he doesn't know his best team yet then he never will. You can keep on pretending to be happy at watching inept defending with the same old predictable mistakes and I will go on moaning about it that's your right and mine . It's called democracy,try it sometime and stop moaning at others who don't share your rather sycophantic views of Arsene. I was pleased to see a bit more quicker direct forward play in the first 20 minutes when we had City rocking but typically we failed to take advantage of this and ended up getting caught on the break after losing possession . Wenger's stil not sussed out how to coach his side properly in the dark arts of possession football in which the trick is not to lose the darn ball in dangerous areas ,hey that's why it is called POSSESSION football! Zonal marking on set pieces and corners in our goal area, oh hum , just how many years must the ball fly into our goal from them before Wenger calls time on this nonsense? My guess is the 12th of never.

  111. Carlos

    Sep 14, 2014, 19:45 #57270

    Very accurate summary both of the match and of where the 1st team squad finds itself. One question, do you really see Ozil playing with 3 attackers in front of him? That would mean two from Ramsey, Wilshere, Arteta and Flamini behind him. The only reason Ozil gets in the team is because of his price tag. He's still sulking that he was forced out of Madrid and that Arsenal were the only team that wanted him.

  112. GBP

    Sep 14, 2014, 19:44 #57269

    Jeff - Had we have won im sure that you would fine something to moan about and apply your wisdom after the event. The real truth is that City are perhaps one of the best teams that the PL has seen. They have pace power nous skill and guile in every position plus physical commitment. In short, everything a team should have for the price theyve paid. We re a work in progress, we dont have the same quality of player and got a very well deserved draw against them. City will win far more of their big games than they will lose. You really are a moaning so and so. Would it be that hard to give the team a bit of credit just for once? Our lads really stuck at it and were on the ropes at times.

  113. GBP

    Sep 14, 2014, 19:18 #57268

    DW - Sanchez has the work ethic of nearly all South American players. Even the very best such as Messi have an unquenchable work rate. Look at lesser ones like Tevez, a player who i would have loved Arsenal to buy at one time, he s made a great career from his skills but harnessed to immense team/work ethic. Mertersacker is a real weak ness inn the team. People speak of the need for a DM. In my view the nub of the problem is the lack a true top quality centre back and has been for many years. The cry for a DM is to apply sticking plaster over the caverns at the back. To buy a DM would arguably waste money in asking a player to come in and cover the weaknesses of a CB who himself really should be replaced. PER is OK weaker opponents though.

  114. jeff wright

    Sep 14, 2014, 19:14 #57267

    Anyone would think that City were unbeatable judging by the excuses put up by some on here for us only managing ,despite leading 2-1 with a few minutes to go and the ref having given every important call in our favour , to end up scraping a 2-2 draw. Well City are not unbeatable they lost last weekend at home to ,er, mighty Stoke . Old Sparky is no tactical genius but he put one over on his latest successor at Poundlands Pellegrini so why couldn't our genius manage to do it playing at home is the question? I said before the game on here that this was a good time to play City after a International break early in the new season and with big Kolo out. So no excuses really just the same old mistakes by Wenger that he often gets away with against the cannon-fodder but very rarely when he makes them against top teams. That's why even with lots of things in his favor that I expected Wenger to get only a draw when he really should have won. Right then so when Diaby the invisible man returns it will be like signing a new player and his moment will have come ,problems solved then! You really couldn't make it up.

  115. Roddy

    Sep 14, 2014, 19:08 #57266

    Can the disgruntled followers of Arsenal bugger off and leave Arsenal to the real supporters.Sanchez best player in the Premiership by a mile.City and Chavs same old dull defensive football.

  116. We've got Jack and Danny

    Sep 14, 2014, 18:59 #57265

    Or would you prefer Dixon, Arsene Seaman?

  117. DW Thomas

    Sep 14, 2014, 18:47 #57264

    Good overall analysis Kevin, as usual. Westie and Baddie, Diaby has been one of my favorite Arsenal players as he can boss the field when he is fit and on. Problem is he is never fit! We were very good at times yesterday thanks to Jack and Sanchez. Ramsey,was poor, again. And no WC hangover to excuse him. He and Jack do not seem to play well together in the CM roles. Jack's goal was excellent, the kind a striker should score, but we don't have that kind of player do we? Ozil looks devoid of ideas and unwilling to play tough and work for the team. Just compare him to Sanchez who is becoming my new favorite. Not because of flash or skill, though he has them, but due to his grit and will to win. He works his socks off. Even Wellbeck at times pressured too and we seemed to control the early second half. Yet, the lack of a DM who is quick and can disrupt opponents play cost us the game. That and terrible, nonexistent marking. Flamini lost his man, Per is too slow, and nobody wins headers without Giroud defending back there. It's like they switch off at the key moments again and again. For me that's down to lack of coaching. We should have won this game, then should have lost it. They hit the post twice in the dying minutes and Chambers, though a good prospect, looks good for a big mistake or two per game. Kind of like Kos in his early days with us. And where is Rosicky? How does he not play, unless injured? Is time to see these year after year errors fixed. More time in practice defending. And if anyone still supports zonal marking, I have no idea why. Our best defenders at heading should mark their best at heading, simples. Others can zonal mark, but we should man mark the best attackers. Dzeko and Kompany. Never give them space. Or Dimechelis. Silva, Ageuro and the others should never have a chance if we just out jump them and maintain close marking. Again, we switched off.

  118. Bard

    Sep 14, 2014, 18:47 #57263

    Usual accurate analysis Kev. I do feel we are unbalanced having to play Ozil wide and I am not convinced by the midfield, but it was a spirited performance and we didnt get thrashed. On balance its hard to view us as more than also rans. Resting Toure for the CL told you all you need to know about how seriously Pelligrini rates our challenge. I also saw an interesting stat that says we have taken 25 points from a possible 90 against the top teams over the last 5 years. I think that puts to bed any ridiculous notion we have been seriously competing in recent times.

  119. GoonerRon

    Sep 14, 2014, 17:42 #57262

    Looking at some of these comments you'd think we just got tonked by the bottom club. I didn't see a perfect performance by any stretch but I saw us stand toe-to-toe with the champions in every aspect of the game - energy, passing, movement, pace, the lot. Only my opinion but to say we were outdone physically by them is a nonsense. It was a hugely encouraging performance with greater incision in our attacking play than we've seen for time.

  120. GBP

    Sep 14, 2014, 17:27 #57261

    Well written Kev. We did as well as City allowed us to do. They really are a polished team aren't they. Well done Gunners but so glad we wont play them every week. A draw very creditable.

  121. reboot

    Sep 14, 2014, 17:17 #57260

    Can't wait till Arsenal get a top top manager.

  122. Seven Kings Gooner

    Sep 14, 2014, 17:15 #57259

    Usual very accurate report Kev - we scored two great goals and worked hard but this team will take a bit of time to settle, probably by the new year we will be more fluid. However had the game lasted another 10 minutes we would have lost it - probably 4-2. The same defensive problems exist and I doubt whether there is any criticism by our coaching staff of our supposed "zonal marking" I prefer to call it "no marking" and the stats back up our failings from dead ball positions completely. Whatever money we spend, be it 20 million or 200 million if we do not address the perennial defensive problems we are never going to improve on fourth place.

  123. BADARSE

    Sep 14, 2014, 17:12 #57258

    No god to hear your cries I am afraid Mathew. Two months you say? Not surprising. Let's hope it isn't any longer. Now is the time to steady the ship not lose our heads, the orchestra hasn't even begun playing as that old ship isn't even listing. Look out, radfordkennedy will show up now with the matelot lingo.

  124. Mathew

    Sep 14, 2014, 17:01 #57257

    Oh god, Debuchy has an ankle injury and out for 2 months, its coming....

  125. Jude Jolicoeur

    Sep 14, 2014, 16:27 #57256

    Ramsey is, dare I say, reverting to type. The over-elaborate tricks, flicks and back heels have returned to his game, yet nothing’s coming off for "Welsh Jesus." Ozil takes pelters, but Ramsey has been just as woeful. The excuse this week will undoubtedly be that he picked up a knock whilst playing for Wales. Were Oxlade-Chamberlain and Cazorla rested for Dortmund? Where is Rosicky? Jack was brilliant. Hope he saved something for Tuesday.

  126. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 14, 2014, 16:11 #57255

    That's two words very well known to us Kev, Falling short and it was the case again yesterday, and we all know what department we fall short in the most. Yes a couple of good goals scored to get back into it and ahead, and all we had to do for the three points was hold on or shut up shop and be carefull, but no we couldn't do that, same old, two points dropped after it was there for the taking, biggest test yet failed, are we really surprised(but no doubt some will be happy with the draw and one point)and it could have been worse late on with the usual cock up. Danny boy had a decent debut to eager to please maybe but you can't fault him for that, better to look to the defence for that including the keeper what do they actually do at London Colney. We're still light and short alright but haven't we always and in the most important position of all.

  127. BADARSE

    Sep 14, 2014, 15:41 #57254

    These posts are hilarious, but unintentionally so. Starting at the back Sir Chesney has been vilified, Debuchy just escapes because it looks like he has a serious injury, though it didn't stop some clowns denigrating Giroud when he sustained his-such is the unsavouriness of some 'fans'(?), Monreal cops it, so do the centre back pair. Flamini is ripe for criticism as is Ramsey, scorn is poured upon Ozil, Chambers gets his share, even Arteta who was only on the pitch for around five minutes. Welbeck escapes most but not all, as he is a new boy, leaving just Jack, the whipping boy for the last three weeks, Ox and Alexis. The game itself got it in the neck too, as did the manager of course. The ref got his come uppance also, as did the lino. I can't remember if the TV commentators or pundits did, oh and it didn't rain.

  128. CT Gooner

    Sep 14, 2014, 15:37 #57253

    Can't help feel we're all being a little too negative. The performance on the whole is the best this season, and hopefully we can build on the positive parts. For me they were faster more deliberate attacks, less tippy-tippy, and a desire by most to be the best out there. To me Ozil was lost again, but the play of JW, AS & DW glossed over that. The two goals were down to poor defensive tracking back ( flamini) and zonal marking at corners, something that drives us all mad. Just think, had we signed DW last summer, or even at Christmas, might have been a very different season.

  129. Danny

    Sep 14, 2014, 15:26 #57252

    same old players same arrogant manger. we be fighting for 4th,5th or even 6th until this sod leaves. wellbeck is average is not better then Giroud. how many balls did he win -nothing. open net and screw it. OZIL is a lazy turk and should be sold. We need a midfield enforcer but again this coach has failed

  130. BADARSE

    Sep 14, 2014, 15:13 #57251

    I echo tho thoughts 24601. How nicely set up it is for Diaby. Do you think there is a clause in the loan deal with young Carl to bring him back, or is he injured too? Am cleaning my boots just in case...all three of them!

  131. W

    Sep 14, 2014, 14:59 #57250

    An accurate article with the points well argued. For Ozil to work out he needs to be moved and the formation needs to change, although I do think he could work harder in the meantime to 'adapt and survive'. Perhaps having Welbeck up front rather than Sanogo will give him more confidence. At the end of the day, credit and confidence can be taken from the game and from this match i think finishing third and retaining the FA cup (or a domestic cup double) are well attainable and should be the goals for this season, as it would keep everyone happy, keep the money coming and avoid two extra games. In other areas, i'm disappointed that Campbell has not been given a chance and do not know who is going to deputise at RB.

  132. Unchives

    Sep 14, 2014, 14:48 #57249

    Well, we were by far the best team and that's difficult to achieve when you have to carry players like Ozil,the managers is trying very hard to make it work, however he is next to hopeless. No man-marking defending costs us again, and yet another injury to contend with. As for not included Sanogoal, even on the bench shows up the manager more than the player himself....you don't know what your doing Mr Wenger!

  133. Highbury Boy

    Sep 14, 2014, 14:37 #57248

    Another accurate assessment Kevin. Only slight disagreement;I thought Welbeck held it up better than Giroud. Great atmosphere at the game and going forward we played with much more pace than anything so far this season. The defence never looked comfortable though.After going 2-1 I hoped Wenger would bring on Gibbs,switch Alexis and take Ozil off. Chambers' poor back header eventually lead to the ill fated corner. Now we are down to 5 defenders including 2 left backs,one of whom was surprised to be told to play cb pre-season. Someone suggested Flamini as a defensive option but his lack of pace will be exposed if he has to play at full back.

  134. Westlower

    Sep 14, 2014, 14:24 #57247

    Abou Diaby, your time to shine as the best midfielder in PL.

  135. ALAN WHIFFIN

    Sep 14, 2014, 13:49 #57246

    The need for a strong defensive midfielder is now so obvious.Short term solution move Koscielny to that position and bring in Chambers alongside Mertesacker ?Ozil must be played in the middle.

  136. BADARSE

    Sep 14, 2014, 13:41 #57244

    Evening Athoz. I don't know for sure-these specific injuries are always subject to the individual's body repair. It has been floated that it could be sometime within a month, but if this is just back in training, it could be another month before we see the real fit again Theo. Let's hope it's sooner. That was a good and noteworthy outlook you gave.

  137. Ozzie

    Sep 14, 2014, 12:49 #57243

    Citeh are a well "oiled" machine and their forays forward reminded me of Arsenal in their heyday. How they were kept to 2 goals is beyond me although I thought The Gunners stepped up pretty well and if you can enjoy each game on it's merits without expectations..can someone tell me when Walcott will be available? Thanks.

  138. 80's Gooner

    Sep 14, 2014, 12:37 #57242

    Is Diaby the new Ritchie Powling? he was always in the sticker albums & squad photos of the late 70's but can't remember ever seeing him play because he was always injured. Last season was like 2008, where lack of squad depth cost us the league. This season will like the 8 other seasons for the reasons already documented on the previous comments so expect plenty of 4-4 & 5-4 score lines & a fourth place battle with Man U & a early spring exit from the CL.

  139. jeff wright

    Sep 14, 2014, 12:04 #57241

    Ivan should be looking to fix Wenger up with a visit to see Mufti of Jerusalem or some other religious leader in January on deadline day ,that way while Arsene is away he can sign a DM and CB . Otherwise even 4th place could become a problem,we have only just secured that spot in the past by an odd point. So there is no room here for complacency .

  140. AMG

    Sep 14, 2014, 11:56 #57240

    Fantastic report Kevin! I disagree with you that Welbeck is less efficient than Giroud at holding the ball up, I can think of very few situations where he gave up the ball as tamely as OG does when under pressure. He was a real handful for the Man City defenders and forced them to play deeper than they otherwise would have done, creating the space that Jack needs to show what a world class talent he can be. I would even give Welbeck half a credit for the assist for the second goals (great headed pass by JW) the shove in the back on Kompany was just the kind of cynical will-to-win challenge that we've lacked for the last few years. All positive going forwards, with the exception of Rambo, who I would argue simply cannot be effective in partnership with Jack (similar to the Ozil-Cazorla/Arteta-Flamini conundrum). It's only the wholly predictable defensive frailties that are letting us down again as was well highlighted in the above article.

  141. Sam

    Sep 14, 2014, 11:50 #57238

    Wenger seems to have chosen Jack in the no 10, playmaker role which means Özil plays wide or not at all. Jack played well yesterday but generally it's a curious choice, especially given that he cost £42m. I think over the season that Jack as playmaker could cost us goals. However the most worrying is the defence. No DM as we all know. I've never seen Özil play well without a strong DM (and seen him play superbly with cover behind him). Plus the lack of defenders now that Debuchy is injured is just negligent. I was right behind the goal and the lack of marking of Demichelis was familiar and depressing. I think it was Chambers who had just come on, but we're a soft touch again from set pieces.

  142. Nozzer

    Sep 14, 2014, 11:34 #57237

    Flamini was exposed against better quality players yesterday, he wont play against that class of player every week. Wengers decision not to sign a quality defensive midfielder has come back to haunt him. Ozil looked disinterested, Wenger chose to not sign Fabregas because of Ozil. We need to work on set pieces, the great back four played zonal but they attacked the ball and took responsibility. On the plus side Wilshere had a great game and Sanchez was awesome and we held our own against City.

  143. Eddie

    Sep 14, 2014, 11:15 #57236

    Every Gooner and his dog knew we needed a DM this summer everyone but Mr £8m a year of course.I think you are very harsh on Szczesny.Courtois has let the same amount of goals as Szczesny and he plays behind Terry and Cahaill!!.Mertersacker and Koscielny continue to be found out in the big games not helped by our Kamikaze full backs caught upfield.Its always been said Wenger sets his teams out the same way against the big and little teams and so it proved yesterday.Wenger has to play Ozil in the number 10 role or drop him but he aint dropping a £42m player.Finally isnt it great to see Mr £8m being proved right about Cesc.As when he sold RVP to Utd he has handed them the title

  144. TJ

    Sep 14, 2014, 11:05 #57235

    Welbeck will need time but he already looked better than Giroud in my view. We need to change this formation though, 4-1-4-1 does not work well. He's trying to get Wilshere and Ramsey in the team but they are both box to box midfielders, why not alternate them? You cover so much ground in that position, and they also have a history of injury. Playing Ozil on the wing was just awful- the guy is a brilliant playmaker and should be played there. He can hold the ball up and thread brilliant passes. Flamini was at fault for Aguero's goal, you have to stay goal side in that situation. Two world-class goals, thanks mainly to Wilshere's superb performance, but I thought otherwise the play was missing something, mainly due to the imbalance of forcing Ramsey in and Ozil on the wing. If Toure had played I think the centre of midfield would have been heavily dominated by City both defensively and offensively. Chelsea and City are becoming far stronger teams and that's because they don't have holes in their squads: how many areas can you think of where they're weak? Because we don't have a burly defensive midfielder, we are not able to interrupt opposition play. And we are weak in centre back cover, so we'll continue to be found out against the biggest teams. It's City and Chelsea nailed on (practically) for top two, so we're competing with Spurs, Liverpool and big spenders United for the extra two places. I honestly don't think we'll be so lucky this year but let's hope we are.

  145. West Cork Frank

    Sep 14, 2014, 10:49 #57234

    Szczeny has always been a disaster waiting to happen. Firstly, he has no football intelligence, rooted to his line, always flat- footed. Secondly, the saves he does make usually result in him pushing the ball back out into the penalty area. Am i just being old- fashioned but i'm sure for say a hundred years goalies would catch, gather or push shots around the post. Thirdly, he either collapses on his arse or comes out feet first when an opponent is bearing down on goal.Finally, he believes he is the dogs bollocks, no doubt encouraged by manager who played Almunia untold times when it was clear to anybody that he,Senderous, Eboue, Djouro, Denilson etc etc were ****e.For the second goal against man city we had a defender on the back post ! who could have easily have headed the ball away, but our eejit of a keeper wanted to make a spectacular save, unbelievable, two more points down the drain. No proper defensive midfielder again this season.What team with our cash, not wengers cash remember, would really expect to win the league with Flamini and Arteta ? Ozil was worse than usless yesterday, he has no fight in him and got rid of the ball as quickly as he could and wouldn't track back if you paid him.Still as AKB were stuck with him. I am so angry that after years of insipid displays, useless players and a tactically naive and arrogant manager, again it's fourth place if we're lucky when this was going to be our time, FFP etc to have a real go at it.

  146. Miles F

    Sep 14, 2014, 10:46 #57233

    Not sure that the criticism of Szcesney and Kos is justified. Both had pretty good games. MoTD showed that the City equaliser was down to lack of any challenge, in other words a defensive system failure. City had a much better shape. The other huge difference is that we always look to play the ball to feet, whereas City always pass into space, with the player running onto it, time after time. With a break of 3 passes, this saves them 3 seconds and makes them much quicker on the break. It is not that their fastest players are faster runners than ours, just that they play better and more economically as a team. May we please learn from watching this? It is after all the way we used to play before we got obsessed with tippy tappy after the Champions League final.

  147. DvbrisG

    Sep 14, 2014, 10:38 #57232

    Sorry Kevin but I can't have Koscielny being blamed for the equaliser. Calum Chambers was "marking" Demichelis and stood and watched as the goal was scored.

  148. KC

    Sep 14, 2014, 10:19 #57231

    Great post, an honest account of the game and of the weakness Wenger has in regard to the importance of not having the ball. The numbers in regard defensive and offensive players is startling to say the least but it’s the quality that really hurts us. We played well at times yesterday scored two fantastic goals had a great opportunity to score another all against a very good side. This is all undone at the other end of the pitch. Sadly we have two players Arteta , Flamini who do not cut the mustard at the level we require and I can only assume Wenger does not consider it important as replacing these players should not be that difficult, both are two slow, Arteta is not a defensive midfielder, Flamini dives in and spends to much time on his arse and was not good enough 6 six ago to hold a regular place down. The facts do not lie we concede to many goals especically against the good teams to compete for the big trophies. The back four are not protected and yesterday I sat in my seat thinking everytime city attacked we looked vulnerable, to many players of to many teams dance through our midfield because we do not have a protective defensive minded player that enjoys his job. When we play away against the best I struggle to see why it will be different to last season. The irony of all this is that with our pace on the counter we should look to invite teams to attack us and break but Wengers game plan does not entertain this in fact it’s the opposite we attack send our full backs forward and teams expose us. Great game yesterday but the same old failing shows its ugly head and you leave the ground angry at why we are so short defensively in numbers and quality.

  149. Mike

    Sep 14, 2014, 10:14 #57229

    As far as I am concerned Szczesnys criticism is a bit harsh. A brilliant stop by him in the last minute of the game prevented us from losing

  150. Hiccup

    Sep 14, 2014, 9:59 #57228

    We have Flamini as a defensive option should it be needed. Internal solutions is the arsenal way. Buying our way out of a problem with this spend spend spend attitude is the chav way. We would have won yesterday if the ref hadn't been biased towards City. Don't know why everyone is flapping. We have a better team than Spurs and Everton, so we should be ok again. Should any issues arise, we can address these in the January window like we did last season.

  151. Mathew

    Sep 14, 2014, 9:57 #57227

    Wenger doesn't buy proven players, Ozil and Sanchez are exceptions which i feel was pressured. He is for nurturing players, moulding them to the way he want kinda approach. Maybe he should lead our academy and allow someone else to take over from him, someone who is more of a tactician. Forget about Champions League, even PL titles are not possible with him.COYG

  152. Wenger Out

    Sep 14, 2014, 9:38 #57226

    What a failure of management from Wenger. The team was disorganised, no plan, clueless and players had no idea what they were doing. Any decent manager could send out a drilled side with a plan. But Wenger cant even do the basics of management. The guy is the most incompotent manager in the league. 3 more years of this mug. We now have 5 defenders for 4 positions where most of them aren't good. This guy is conning of the club he has no clue what he is doing.

  153. smithy

    Sep 14, 2014, 9:37 #57225

    Two areas that have been an area of weakness over the past 4 seasons are still there- no defensive water carrier role and an inability to defend set pieces.If we don't get these areas right it will continue to be groundhog day.

  154. Don't Piss On Me & Say It's Raining

    Sep 14, 2014, 9:31 #57224

    A fair and accurate assessment as usual. A draw was a fair result in the end but it was noticeable that we lost composure when it mattered which ultimately means that we will not win the league no matter what. Saying that, we conceded the league title when we turned down an improved and experienced Fabregas. I'd say it's a joke just like the ludicrous decision not to strengthen defence in the last window and up front the window before that. The arrogance of AW hurting the club again, especially in the case of Fabregas. Back to the game though. Wiltshere was much improved, so great to see, let us hope he can stay fit. Welbeck had a good debut, worked hard and got into good positions. Very happy with his signing. Sanchez, well, love him for work rate and attitude alone. I don't want to bash Özil as it isn't his fault he is being played out of position but he needs to look and learn from Sanchez's application. I fear I jinxed Debuchy as I was lording him during the game but what can you do, injury is always possible and it's just a pity we don't have a manager who understands that.

  155. red fred

    Sep 14, 2014, 9:23 #57221

    Looks like 4th again,The Chavs have it all to win title.Don't think Wenger knows his best side or where to play them and Ozil is an enigma that needs sorting out fast.Play him in the middle or drop him! One more defensive injury and we will be wafer thin at the back but maybe Ivan can sort us another defender in the next transfer window as Wenger will be on the lookout for another midfield player.

  156. Clive the Gooner

    Sep 14, 2014, 9:19 #57220

    Make you right Kev, Wenger doesn't seem to want a DM even though it's obvious we need one as Flamini/Arteta are not up to the job. It's this stubborness that will cost us once again and how many times do we see opponents scoring from free headers? The other question is why did we not get more defensive cover in? I'm afraid we'll come up short again this season.