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Online Ed: Arsenal eliminated from League Cup at first hurdle



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Firstly, a quick word of thanks to Huawei who treated my good self, my son and various Arsenal and tech bloggers to hospitality for this match. Tomorrow, I should be posting a video my boy made on the evening with the Huawei Ascend P7 Arsenal Edition handset to enhance their brand awareness, which is obviously the point of this exercise. There will be some photos on a dedicated gallery page too. That’s today’s plug over, without any pretense of subtlety, so now down to the business of why we are here.

I compared the starting elevens to those that played for the two clubs last weekend. Southampton made five changes. Arsenal made ten. The consequence, in terms of the match, was that it was fairly even except that, for this observer, the visitors created the more dangerous chances. They could have won by more.

I had a feeling that Southampton would indeed field a side closer to their best eleven and as a consequence, exploit Arsenal’s lack of resources at the back, and probably win. The Gunners certainly had quality options going forward, but overall, did not look too much like a team on paper. Diaby and Wilshere as the defensive screen is not going to offer much protection to the centre backs (including Isaac Hayden making his second only start), and the need to play Coquelin at left back was indicative of the lack of defensive options available. If Arsenal were going to win this, it would be by outscoring the opposition.

In reality, there was not too much blame that could have been laid at the defenders for the two goals that Southampton scored. Rosicky was culpable for the first one with a thoughtless lunge at the ball, given the location, to concede the penalty, whilst the second goal was unstoppable, although some might feel the scorer Clyne might have been closed down. Jack Wilshere made a judgment call and doubtless regretted it, but it was a screamer of a shot.

Where Arsenal were ultimately let down was the inability of their attacking players to create gilt edged chances. A good number of quality names on the teamsheet, but Southampton’s organization and workrate have not been lost with the departure of Pocchetino and a number of high profile players. Arsenal’s forwards and midfielders lacked both sharpness (Rosicky, Diaby, Campbell and Podolski) and enough understanding to create more than a couple of solid chances. There were too many attempts at threading the ball through the eye of a needle and they didn’t come off. Impotence and frustration resulted, with the introductions of Cazorla, the Ox and as a last throw of the dice Chuba Akpom for a defender not making any difference.

Was it any great surprise? Should the manager have done anything different? In this instance, I will honestly state that greater defensive depth in the squad would have made no difference in this match, although I would accept if there were a couple of genuine holding midfielders in the squad, then playing one of them might have seen less fluency from Southampton. But it was going forward where the problems were most evident. However, the manager has to give these players game time. With so many injuries, he could be accused of recklessness if he played more first teamers. It could of course be suggested that some different tactics might have been utilized to outfox the Southampton back-line, but with the personnel available, I am not convinced Arsenal really have much of a plan B, aside from throwing Akpom on a lot earlier and trying a 4-4-2.

The League Cup has, for many seasons, been an exercise in keeping back up players involved, or giving experience to youngsters. When a side approaches it in this manner, more often than not, their progress will be halted at some point. Arsenal had enough quality in their eleven to win a home tie against Southampton on paper, some big names. But big names do not make a team. Ronald Koeman’s side won last night because they were more of a team. It is the reason that they are currently lying second in the table. They are no minnows.

Arsène gambled, and lost. But he won’t have lost too much sleep over it.

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.

The new issue of The Gooner will be on sale outside the stadium for Saturday’s game v Spurs. It can be bought online here.

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Further Reading
A sequel to Arsènal – The Making of a Modern Superclub and entitled Arsène and Arsenal The Quest to Rediscover Past Glories has been written by myself and co-author Alex Fynn. It takes up the story of the club from the last update of the previous book, and can be bought online here. Use the promo code ‘Gooner’ to get 10% off the publisher’s price of £8.99.


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108
comments

  1. Jason B

    Sep 27, 2014, 13:37 #58062

    No, can't say I have lost too much sleep over it ,either.Time to move on.

  2. GBP

    Sep 26, 2014, 15:23 #57997

    JJ - Thats fine but nobody says Arsenal are morally up on the other Clubs, just that they have a reputation for doing things with a bit of decorum, a bit of decency.Its a rare commodity and maybe why you choose to not recognise it. Its the Old Etonian thing really that cast an image. It may be illusory as you say to a degree but some things stuch to make other Clubs recognise it, like it or not. Youre doing what Bard does and using it as another weapon to smite the Club with. They do a lot wrong but also do a hell of a lot right seemingly. Why that should disappoint/annoy you is a matter for you is a matter for you of course. I'm sure you ll garner some credibility on here with many of the herd for being 'anti' for the sake of it Each to his own.

  3. Anti-Wenger

    Sep 26, 2014, 15:07 #57995

    Reviewing the biz Wenger did over the summer, it looks like Arsenal no longer has focus. Before the window opened, we were expecting to improve in at least 2 key areas. get a worldclass DM and a better striker than Giroud. rather we got Debuchy, Ospina and Chambers, who were mere replacements for Sagna, Fabianski and Vermalean.none was an improvement on what we had before, so the team hasn't improved on Paper at least. Welbeck has come in to replace Giroud, which is also a downgrade. so the only positive addition to the team this summer was Alexis(which is even a bit of a luxury but most welcome). So i think in terms of squad, we've actually gone backwards

  4. jjetplane

    Sep 26, 2014, 14:08 #57991

    Love all this hard working, decent football club nonsense that is the Arsenal urban myth. Arsenal is/was a football club like thousands of others and the perfectly silly belief that this one club is somehow above/different to all the others is plain bollox. Remember when I was a kid and Chelski and Citeh were right on the radar along with this silly tory notion of Arsenal which we would laugh at. So a couple of knobs in blazers were running the place. Big ****ing deal. It was a football club. Plain and simple. The thousands of kids and chaps who walked and kicked a ball on those north London streets were gents enough without the rich stamping all over it. Mind you - do remember GG looking well smart in a blazer but that is the end of it. And now after watching that short promotion on another post for the eventual Chinese take over/away of Arsenal there is one thing missing. Football fans. People screaming their nuts off because 'the saints were truely marching in'. Fans, not stewards saying 'no - the bull**** quotient is bigger than the arena - it will not ****ing hold!' The thing is, when we marched down the road in other days in our Prince of Wales, Dogtooth, Dunn & Co carnival of the blokies, heads would turn and that's when they knew it was Arsenal. That I understand. ps FG you old gooner! Keep on!

  5. Ozzie

    Sep 26, 2014, 12:28 #57982

    "...Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player - that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more; it is a tale - told by an idiot, full of sound and fury - signifying nothing."

  6. GBP

    Sep 26, 2014, 12:16 #57980

    Good old Finsbury. Im betting the spuds supporters would have given their right arms for one so incompetent and egotistical over the last 18 years eh chap!! Mind you, you did have Tel Venables didnt you until Big Al Sugs seen through him. Plenty of incompetence and ego there, but no titles! Keep en coming matey.

  7. BADARSE

    Sep 26, 2014, 11:13 #57979

    FJ, I know it's a difficult task trying to understand the machinations of life, but keep working at it, you may improve your reasoning powers. Do not just ask others to give you the answer, if you do you'll never grow as a person, er, strike that last point.

  8. Finsbury Joe

    Sep 26, 2014, 11:10 #57978

    how is it possible, for a man, through ego, incompetence, dithering and downright penny pinching, to miss out on Ronaldo, Drogba, Ibrahimovich, Bale, Ribery, Eto, Makalele, Cech, Alonso and Yaya Toure...then be sell Henry, Fabregas and RVP on the cheap, yet still be in a job after so many years on £8 million a year? And, now, Khedira, Schneiderlin , Gustavo and Carvalho go by the wayside...to make way for the latest version of Project Diaby. Only at Arsenal. Insane in the membrane.

  9. GBP

    Sep 26, 2014, 9:54 #57975

    Underlying everything that you say DW are two things. 1. That you want to see the Club spending cash like monopoly money and 2. that you cant take a defeat or two very well. Dress it up in club 'love' if you like, but it doesn't conceal your desires that you want and expect the Club to behave like Chelsea and Utd and City. Its not happening and wont. Arsenal are not that type of Club, never have been and never likely to be.Study our history. The daftest thing is that you and others think that some kind of rash spending frenzy that you crave will happen under a new 'enlightened' Coach. It wont, not at Arsenal.Live with it or yes, change your allegiance. There's really little enjoyment or 'joy' of football in any of your posts. You do at least manage to conceal that.

  10. BADARSE

    Sep 26, 2014, 7:48 #57972

    Good evening DWT, so how do you arrive at all the knowledge and then transform it into insults? Arrogant? Knows it all? Then veiled jibes at others who offer a saner view-certainly a different one anyway. Not much respect there, is there? How would others react to that approach, if you were in the chair? Do you perhaps think there might be a 'DWT, U, V. W or X', somewhere calling you names because of your attempts at leadership? I am sure there would be. Simple exercise. You have a player with undoubted talent, wracked with injuries throughout, who is still working towards a comeback. You surely, like AW, admire the man's fortitude, I do! You cast an eye around a loaded up midfield, and know there is one place there, at the back, crying out for another body in that group to be able to do a job there. He knows the man's legs have not got faster over the years, goes with supporting the player, knowing this is perhaps his last throw of the dice. He gives the club's fans info-something most gloomier fans complain of the absence of. He is castigated for it. He stands by a player-I would too, speaks of his hopes-I might too, and is character assassinated for it by people like yourself-I would be too. You profess a love for the club, well love is an odd concept, a nebulous mix of emotions crashing into each other, giving a chaotic, but wondrous sense. Thing is it manifests itself in different ways. Your love sort of mirrors mine up to a point, same joy, same angst, same disappointments, but where is that love when it's most needed? It's a fledgling kind, a 'me, me' type. Forget the unsubstantiated insults and focus on the facts-do a MARCUS. A player returns from injury, has maybe the qualities to convert and apply himself to a given role in the team, and you are informed of the manager's intentions. I welcome all of that, and hope it comes to fruition. Think on my friend, and show what the Beatles sang of, 'Real Love'. The kind that can move mountains, because this player and the manager's trust in him will need that sort of support to achieve the desired target. They both have mine-still mine is big enough, and probably powerful enough to cover for another, so on second thoughts just relax, but please don't negate and pull against us.

  11. DW Thomas

    Sep 26, 2014, 0:48 #57968

    I love this club. Truly. What I detest is the PR spin routinely thrown out whenever the club/manager gets stuck in a dishonest situation. Now we're gearing Diaby is DM? Astounding. More every day! And I love Diaby. He has talent indeed. His ability to turn players, hold them off and glide past defenders is great to see on its day. But he has become a punchline. A poster boy for our injury crises each season. Yet he is now the DM we needed? I tell you what. If he does somehow transform into our savior at that position, I will end each of my posts with a salute to Monsieur Knowz it All. All this blabbing on and on about globalism or globalization or the Harlem Globetrotters is just camouflage for hiding the truth about the club. Make no mistake, when watching games I still take great joy. However, the sideshow of our club telling us many things, when its blatantly obvious it's all BS will never sit well, ever. Instead of ever announcing we are going to bust a gut to build/finish the team to compete against all comers, we hear about taking dividends. Sure, it's his own moey, he have every right. But, any sane decent human being understands a man of his wealth needs that money like I need the change in my couch! It's the statement it makes. Not the morality of it. We are losing titles each season by not spending. Spending buys needed players, needed backups. It's the little things added up that lead to success. And lack so many. Sure we get an Ozil or Sanchez. But where is our Sagna? A reliable backup with pedigree. Greed again wins over competing. Yet some on here say who cares, so what, others would die for a club like ours. You think that's how winners think? Not that I think United is the blueprint, but they missed out on CL this year and look at their response. The effort to rebuild and shake loose of the deadwood in their club. It took us years to get rid of Almunia, Bendtner, Denilson. Why? Money. They saved us money. And don't forget one man's gigantic no one else knows ego.

  12. BADARSE

    Sep 25, 2014, 21:40 #57962

    Without going all cosmic or metaphysical I think you are in the area GBP, as expected. It's a little like trying to catch a moonbeam, and we know only Dark Moonies are able to do this. A father is an honourable man, despite any other shortcomings and sometimes the children recognise this and attempt to emulate. Before too many years have passed areputation has emerged and other fringe members of the family, liking what they see want to identify also. A dynasty is born. It becomes the accepted way, a little more integrity, a little more consideration and respect to opponents and suddenly it is there. As people discuss it, it almost becomes tangible-The Arsenal Way', indeed. We all want to be better than we otherwise might be, that is aspiration, and we like to 'big up' our club. Nothing much wrong in that. However as Bard recognises it is flimsy, like gossamer, but it does exist, albeit in diluted form as I said earlier. I prefer to be Arsenal as we are, than any other club, operating differently. They would trade places with us in that respect immediately. Good old Arsenal.

  13. GBP

    Sep 25, 2014, 20:00 #57959

    Chaps and Bard - Ive seen this 'Arsenal way' mentioned often. I think Bard is slightly out of kilter with it with respect to you Bard (and truthfully i do respect your posts). The Club is known for having this class and treating opponents and their directors etc with great care and welcome when we host them. Arsenal have never really been blabbers to the press either and try and do transfer deals cleanly and honourably and with some integrity. Theyre often commented upon by other teams players/managers as having class and doing things properly.They have been for years. It must go back to when the club was known as the bank of england club way back. Jamie Carragher often comments on it. Its this stuff and so forth that puts the 'Arsenal way'into perspective i think, nothing to do with being parsimonious with money. Theyre just a traditional and old school Club and the old etonion spirit still lingers. Ive often wondered if Arsenal are struggling to emerge from the old school shackles theyve always been known for hence our present day approach to team building that so frustrates the fans? Perhaps theyre trying to perform in the modern day climate and know deep down that they need to behave more 'Chelseaish'(im sure they find it disgusting and distasteful as most of us do) but are so compromised by their own preferred classical ideals that theyre falling between the two stools and creating the fan angst we see on here so often inadvertently as a result? Any views lads? Badarse?If im right it could take years and the change to new Bard menbers to see the metamorphosis through. The class thing is some thing us Arsenal fans know about. Others teams fans sort of sense its there but cant quite finger it or explain it. It would be a shame if ever we lost it completely and became Chelsea or City mark 2. Many of us who sort of back the Clubs ways are perhaps more in touch with it than the younger fans hence the friction? I could be talking bollo--s here but know what im trying to get across! (i can hear you Hiccup, saying i always talk bolloc--s!! ha.

  14. BADARSE

    Sep 25, 2014, 18:24 #57955

    There you go with your broad brush strokes Hiccup, sadly you misunderstood the post, yet again. I would venture both jjetplane and Bard understand precisely what I am saying, if not then I may have to get Professor Stanley Unwin to elucidate specifically for you. You have been warned.

  15. Hiccup

    Sep 25, 2014, 17:29 #57951

    It's hard to tell whether jj or bard are tying badarse up in knots, or whether he's tying himself up in knots? So the evilness of spend spend spend to build a squad that can compete is frowned on as being chavie and not the arsenal way. Go support Chelsea if you suggest such nonsense. But the evil filthy globalisation profiteering at the club is defended to the hilt? I'm sure jeff had a catchphrase for such thinking.

  16. BADARSE

    Sep 25, 2014, 16:31 #57949

    jjetplane, to the crux. Globalism archaic? In some other universe perhaps, here it is a cover for all things governmentally inspired 'corporate'. Leaving that aside, I am in awe at Alexis' work rate, his commitment, and his determined resolve. I despise faceless ranchowners-the wig I forgive, it could happen to us all, with the exception of julesd-in fact I despise faceless background manipulators in any guise. In your lingo matelots do even more as they have no boats. I am at odds with much around me as the world cranks on another notch. Never been in accord with money, yet it has often followed me around, there's a good example of luck. You are the lightest of Dark Moonies my friend, and I was castigated for using the description-love sniping-but I guess as I am replying to your phrase I am exempt from blame. I liked the idea of a homemade pizza, was thinking of it recently, perhaps soon. You see, you can still inspire. I usually have a vegetable Dhansak, (our Tandoori makes one of the best ever), with a dozen fresh green chilies as a side order, saag aloo, and tarka dhal, (my wife loves dhal), with a stuffed paratha and pilau rice, accompanied with a glass of pani. Hold onto that radfordkennedy, ha ha. Am cooking my own this evening-did I tell you I make the best rice in the world? ha ha. Peace buddy. @ Bard, the ground rules are set. When I play monopoly I don't like knocking another out of the game, but it's the only way to win, so I do, but reluctantly. Is that any better, more moral, than someone who delights in seeing others squirm, and gloating as they go under for the third time? Perhaps it is the foolish romantic that lurks within me, nothing more transitory than that. Yet even so that is me. The Arsenal Way? Well, in a quagmire of deceit and corruption, the tiniest glimmer of 'decency' is heralded as a wonder. To me, I crave the good in people/establishment- all can be so much better-so when I see that displayed in just a little better fashion I trumpet it. Mostly it is wishful thinking. Look at the article about Kevin's son and the camera. Yet it is only a little jobsworth being a twit. The key is will Arsenal do the honourable thing-doubt it, just look at the 'Archway One', therefore lending weight to your case. Our club is a business, which shakes me to the core, yet in today's landscape it is the only way to compete at a high level, or even to exist as a football club. It is a trade off, one I reluctantly accept, like playing the board game's rules. Morally superior perhaps, but only in the most diluted of forms.

  17. GBP

    Sep 25, 2014, 16:22 #57946

    Tony - Im betting you have a quiet laugh at FJs posts though? He is funny at times even though each post is mainly a mirror image of the last.

  18. jjetplane

    Sep 25, 2014, 15:50 #57942

    BADDIE you are forever popping away at every other poster's compulsive, obsessional, repetitions and here you are banging on about some archaic concept called globalism. We all know dear chap but rather like them old passionate Geordie lads (Benwell Bellies and proud) we like to support the club by saying what we like (Sanchez work rate) and what we don't (faceless ranch owners with Marx (sic) bros identity crisis). Hope the curry was as good as our homemade pizza. On another note I was quite impressed with some of them spuds and they are a very tall lot. Will need to defend well and as for their supporters. One of me bestest pals is a big time spud (silly boy) but listening to 5 live phone in last night thought their supporters (unlike lets say the chav phone ins) have a realistic view of their club and though I have met some truly horrible ones in various situs when I wur a lad these ones were all right. This is a dark Moonie being graceful about the universal sway and a hatrick from Danny would be nice on saturday as long as we pay attention to set pieces and distance shooting. Now about this Ronnie Koeman - he was a right **** at times but as a coach now presses all the good buttons and his relationship with the fans (unlike the spirit of the Amazon) is quite exemplary. Question now is which direction to **** off in ... OMMMMMm

  19. Tony Evans

    Sep 25, 2014, 15:17 #57940

    I am surprised Finsbury Joe hasn't started crowing about the 'mighty' Spurs fantastic achievement of reaching the 4th round of the Micky Mouse Cup, when we didn't. Any straw is usually clutched no matter how trivial - and it always is trivial where the Spuds are concerned!

  20. GBP

    Sep 25, 2014, 15:03 #57939

    1. CT - You could be right too. It remains to be seen. I think we ll see global leagues before long so it adds weight to your view. 2. Why have we ...agree totally on the Clubs pricing. Its rotten. Perhaps like you, ive had season ticket offers but stick with a Silver. It does. Others use it more than me to be honest.Agree as well on Wenger doing it his way and he does make strange decisions at times. I can never quite see him as a seamless extension of the Board though and its from there that we all deviate from each other about him staying as the Coach isn't it. Endless circular arguments between us all with no reliable answers?

  21. Bard

    Sep 25, 2014, 14:57 #57938

    Baddie; i have some sympathy for your recent post. However if we accept your analysis can we now nail the misconception that the comfort blanket of 'doing it the Arsenal way' means little more than screwing the fans and is not some morally superior way of conducting a football club

  22. BADARSE

    Sep 25, 2014, 14:15 #57937

    I am amused by the self righteous indignation displayed by so many, and so often. Everyone appears affronted and annoyed that the top man of a football club takes from it. Given he is a business man, and a successful one at that, those are the ground rules. You live in the ugliest of money-grubbing societies, immersed in the filthiest of trading systems called globalisation, intent on one prime objective-profit above all else! With large multinationals writing the script; richer and more powerful than most small nations, with fingers in pies, orchestrating the chicaneries and Machiavellian manoeuvres at a whim, who control the White House and No.10, plus any other area they are interested in-currently it is the middle east. There is injustice seeping from every pore, and you become incensed about that? Now that is hilarious, especially as it has been explained to you before. I came from an era with total establishment domination, if not absolute control. We didn't even know which side of bed was the correct one to get out of, unless we were told. Then a new mood settled on the young and with it a sense of deprivation, deprivation of facts and certainly information. We had to kick and struggle to find out more, then work out what to do with the truth once in our hands. It has been a lifetime's commitment for me, and a not altogether pleasant journey on occasions. Yet this piffling, and trifling thing called the 'board', or the 'club', overshadows all you perceive. Have your revolution, I'm all for that, but for goodness sake get some perspective beyond, 'it's important to me'. The fanatical clowns abusing life at every opportunity do things for that reason, at least be original. There is much wrong with our club if an analytical eye is cast over it, but so is there everywhere, and with everything. It will only get worse, this is what you are leaving the kids, it's your fault. If you feel aggrieved and want to be motivated then speak out, but please don't pull the heads off dandelions because you don't want weeds in your gardens. And don't ever accuse me of not having passion!

  23. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Sep 25, 2014, 13:14 #57932

    GBP- As the guys at Tesco have proven this week, to blindly accept everything a board says or does is remarkably naive, particularly for a man of your standing. I'm not really bothered about the £3m if it's for services rendered but it's a bit of a slap in the face for fans who have coincidentally just coughed up an unnecessary increased amount of money for their season tickets of roughly the same figure. The board have though been very consistent over the years pledging financial support for their manager, in fact they've never said anything else. Wenger has always been the reticent one, and various board members have publicly accepted the fact that he 'does things his own way'. You should accept all this as fact given your rationale, but I guess in reality you just pick and choose what to believe in order to support the status quo, however depressing and damaging it may be. We're certainly one up on Tesco though, they haven't had a Finance Director for the past 6 months whilst we have had Wenger in that position for the past 8 years.

  24. CT Gooner

    Sep 25, 2014, 13:10 #57931

    @ GBP, perhaps you miss the point, perhaps you don't care, but to many of us, the removing of 3 mill by Kronke is just the next step in the Evolution of Arsenal FC to Kronke Arsenal USA, a company who's sole purpose is to fleece the fans. Many of us have seen this coming, understanding how the Kronke's run their US franchises, when was the last time any of them, and there are many, won anything, or even put a competitive team on their respective field? I for one just want to voice that I don't see our owner as an asset, but a leach. There, said it.

  25. jjetplane

    Sep 25, 2014, 12:52 #57928

    Hear you MG Post match interview I had on picture/word association ummm gizzard. You could not make it up.

  26. maguiresbridgw gooner

    Sep 25, 2014, 11:52 #57925

    Simply a case of OGL's ambition (or lack of it) rubbing off on his fans.

  27. goonerjon

    Sep 25, 2014, 11:50 #57924

    paul the ped,you're not living up to your monicker as the k.o is SATURDAY@1730hrs

  28. jjetplane

    Sep 25, 2014, 11:38 #57923

    GAZ with you there. RON was the best poster by a country mile and only took a poster to task for good reasons. Spoke more sense about the modern game and was not one for backtracking/passing sideways (tick tack posting). Used to relish a long post from him but must say JW, Bard DWT & HICCUp and a few others talk the honest football talk. Laughable they were talking about the cheap prices at 'that Chinese takeaway in Holloway' and as it only goes for one game it is another tidy bit of PR courtesy of 'the pale riders'. Never a better time to add that new barn .... Chavs and Citeh still know this is important cup for a team's seasonal progression/attitude. Even the Sours saw that once they woke up. OGL obviously thinks you can switch it on and off as the empire's economy dictates. Boring in the deep sense.

  29. maguiresbridge gooners

    Sep 25, 2014, 11:31 #57921

    jj, yes some real ambition shown last night from the big boys, have they bigger squads than us? are they allowed more players or something.

  30. GBP

    Sep 25, 2014, 10:51 #57919

    Why have we ... You ll wait a long time chap. I d give it up if i was you. The difference is that some you guys think you can evaluate spending capacity etc for the Club whereas the rest of us prefer to assume that the Club are maybe slightly better placed to judge it than we are (you call it blind acceptance i know) The latest outcry of shock and horror on here about Kroenke re imbursing his other Co s from Arsenal is another ridiculous eg. Its his Club more or less and there's no evidence he s ever taken regular dividends. Many of you just seize on every half chance to slam the Club for no discernible reason. Yes, they make money (and why shouldn't they), yes its too high priced for most of us to see games very often, yes we d like them to spend more here and there and we d like to win the title every Season. Fact is that its a far better Club than most. Its not a lack of not 'caring' (as doubting Thomas shrieks loudly every day) to not get wound up about football. Some of us do actually enjoy it and like doing the odd game despite that fact we don't dominate the sport. We never have save for 3-4 years 8 decades back.

  31. Gaz

    Sep 25, 2014, 9:52 #57918

    Thanks Bard. Hope he's ok and comes back. Can't deny his opinions mirrored mine and I always enjoyed his posts. As for Diaby have you read Le Grove today? Ouch!!!...

  32. Finsbury Joe

    Sep 25, 2014, 9:49 #57917

    Congratulations to the managers of the bigger teams who successfully managed squads and tactics to come through the first hurdle this week in trying to win a thing called a trophy. As for Wenger, he was distracted, trying to think of ways of making Stan richer. We now find that his latest money saving scheme involves turning the most injury prone player with a contract in this league into a monster central defender. You couldn't make it up, nor would you want to. Gooners, revolt.

  33. Bard

    Sep 25, 2014, 9:31 #57916

    Westie,I bow to your superior vision, Im afraid that one passed me by. However i wouldnt have thought it was blindingly obvious that he would fulfil that role. The thought that Diaby would ever be more than a bit part player at Arsenal never crossed my mind let alone being a DM. What are the odds on him playing more than 10 games a season, be interested to know.

  34. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Sep 25, 2014, 8:44 #57915

    GBP- Still waiting for the slightest evidence in anything you say of your many years at the top of big business, although given the nature of your posts it's quite possible that you have been PA to Gazidis for quite a while.

  35. Westlower

    Sep 25, 2014, 8:42 #57914

    @Bard, Far from missing the blindingly obvious about Diaby, it started to become obvious when no DM was signed in the summer. He's got all the attributes to be a good DM, he just needs some normal luck avoiding any further injuries. @DWT, Why should fans have any say on whether Kroenke removes money from the club he owns? The clubs shareholders may object but What has it got to do with the likes of you and I?

  36. GBP

    Sep 25, 2014, 8:16 #57912

    Ha Think nothing of it Hiccup. Always pleased to guide you. If you ever need to know anything just be sure to shout up chappie!

  37. Hiccup

    Sep 25, 2014, 8:09 #57911

    Cheers GBP. I owe it all to you guys on here. A lot of plagiarism I admit, but I have learnt so much from yourself and the mathematician.

  38. Bard

    Sep 25, 2014, 8:03 #57910

    Gaz, Ron left the site a while ago. I think he got fed up but maybe there were other reasons. Just been reading the latest missive from Chairman Wenger. He is a crafty bugger. While we were all moaning about him not buying a DM we missed the blindingly obvious, Diaby in that role. This is no dig at the man but with his injury record you wouldnt bet on him not getting injured crossing the road let alone smashing into tackles. But what I missed is that having him there is a cheap option and the boss does love cheap. DWT, I am appalled by Stans robbery on top of a price hike. It is bad PR and might come back to haunt him if things start to go belly up in the next couple of months. The squad is as usual paper thin so we are already playing russian roulette.

  39. GBP

    Sep 25, 2014, 7:33 #57909

    Ahh Hiccup, a job writing for the FT awaits you with that business acumen of yours.

  40. Gaz

    Sep 25, 2014, 7:32 #57908

    Wheres Ron? Haven't seen him post for quite a while. Did I miss something? Hope he's ok...

  41. Hilarious

    Sep 25, 2014, 6:57 #57907

    Hiccup- Bloody hell that's good. Nail on head.

  42. Ozzie

    Sep 25, 2014, 5:29 #57906

    Some good laughs on here - thanks fellas - keep it coming. I haven't a clue about making money & "busyness" so I don't understand how such a big club ever allowed itself to be "owned" & used as a plaything by some bored/boring old fart. Why did you allow it to happen? Surely you could foresee what would transpire?

  43. Hiccup

    Sep 25, 2014, 5:19 #57905

    DWT. It seems you care too much about the club. You need to take a more laid back approach like the super fans, where any sh!t goes. I'm not fussed about kroenke's £3m. Christ, where's the difference? £173m or £170m in the bank? This time next year it will be up to £230m so we may as well dish it out. It's not like we need to spend it on anything. We have a team that will get to this year's CL final and have overtaken Chelsea as City's main threat for the title. And that's straight from last week's Beano, not Sky Sports News! It's better than spending it on players. I always thought spending money that you never had like Leeds did caused bankruptcy, but apparently spending money that you do actually have leads down the same path? Hard to understand I know, but a well stressed fact on here by the resident mathematician. Obviously I'd prefer the £3m to go in to wenger's pocket, as it's down to him we've built up these reserves. Hell of an achievement considering he's been smashing it for the last ten years. All those years of suffering almunia, Denilson, bendtner & co now starting to pay dividend, literally.

  44. DW Thomas

    Sep 25, 2014, 0:06 #57904

    I find it interesting no one seems to care about Kroenke taking his/our $3m. Do we just not care anymore? Have we become stale, unthinking brutes that live on bread and wine and football, yet nothing else matters? FFS what says we don't care more than that? Money first, trophies, na ahh. Don't really need them tings do we? Just fill the coffers and shut up and take it. You can't change things, so why bother? Is that the new defense for Arsene? 18 years is a mighty long time to get anything right. Given complete power and control its like a century! Wenger has become like a vampire, the club his suck puppet. Always there. With Baddie and GBP his little Renfields, lapping it up. Chew some more bugs my friends, till your leader comes good! Oh wait. League Cup is over. What next? The joy the win at Villa gave me so quickly stripped away by another poor loss with the kids. Rosicky looked a different player, one benched and discarded, a la Arshavin. Where is this great youth coming through? Bellerin to me looked out of his depth each time. Give so,ethic to nibble on Rainbow Gobblins and I will gladly take it! There's just too much to be dark and moany about! I don't want to talk anymore, the master is at hand!

  45. jjetplane

    Sep 24, 2014, 22:05 #57903

    AMG best one liner of the year! Love the sound and look of those Forest supporters so unlucky tonight. Gonna be game on Saturday. Go Bournemouth and as for Littlehampton/you can .....

  46. CT Gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 21:47 #57902

    LOL AMG, but seriously, he would be good for us IF ONLY he could stay fit....

  47. jjetplane

    Sep 24, 2014, 21:04 #57901

    Funny stuff BARD Looks like yourself and HICCUP are the only ones making posters laugh! Funny that. Ps Whatsit with all the really big clubs taking this cup seriously. Wenger really is completely out of touch with current football trends and is wasting Arsenal's time with his spivviness. Away and let us play! Say Ozil and Sanchez - go and ask them on film Kevin! Don't have to show faces - just get the evidence. Wayhay Forest as I clunk the keys! Only one Sour on here BadARSE!

  48. AMG

    Sep 24, 2014, 21:01 #57900

    I missed the game yesterday, does anyone know how long Diaby is out for?

  49. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 20:54 #57899

    Bard, well done on your conversion, i'm sure the rest of the moonies would be easier persuaded to leave the cult than they let on, are you sure those empty glasses didn't belong to a few others, that took cold feet, maybe just as well if they looked like Helen/pete.

  50. jjetplane

    Sep 24, 2014, 20:29 #57898

    MGuire was gonna say lovely post earlier and everything I was thinking myself. Some may see it as negativity but I find it refreshing and all the alternative managers mentioned on here by'God's only children' (see Manson's Dune Buggy Batallion) would have a better fist of last night which smacks of corporate laziness and arrogance which has seeped into the veins of a lot of fans. GBP respect to you as someone who goes to the games and your discussion with ROCKY sums it up beautifully. Perhaps some of us just feel after 18 years of one manager is enough and time for some new fireworks. That we do have a second hand American experience (if it was real the dogs would only be a dollar)is a shame but that is the global sway and unless the wretched do rise up en masse there won't be much change there. BADARSE watching 9th tier is presently a wonderful kind of hell. We are in a dog fight already with injuries and whatnot but it only makes my passion rise more for the team. The manager is a excellent bloke with a great vision. That is the kind of thing I like as a football fan. When you are talking of the modern are you thinking antiquated modernity, modernism or something as non-nigglely as Baudrillard? Enjoy your Biryani! My old man was a mountain of bacon and cabbage. postscript - did find Kevin's corporate intro perversely perverse ....

  51. Bard

    Sep 24, 2014, 20:04 #57897

    I do love the posts here sometimes. We lose to Soton and end up having an argument about the nationality of Usmanov ! You couldn't make it up. Ozzie as you say the real lesson from the result and reports ( I didnt see the game) is that there were no stand out youngsters. A pretty depressing comment on our youth policy. Whatever the result last night the next three games will give us a fairly accurate take on where we are.

  52. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 19:58 #57896

    CT Gooner, good post funny how certain other names put forward at the time haven't been mentioned, especially the name of the one who humiliated him not very long ago, I guess that has already air brushed out of history. Yes it would be nice to walk up to the hole in the wall and take out £3,000,000 (bit hard to fold though) but there again the old leader of the hole in the wall gang on the pitch old butch himself has been withdrawing a hell of a lot more under false pretences over the years himself.

  53. BADARSE

    Sep 24, 2014, 19:29 #57895

    Listen gentlefolk, I'll share this with you, one hundred years ago today my matelot Dad was born-no longer alive sadly. To mark the event-and I never do these things-we are going to have a Ruby, (sorry radfordkennedy, ha ha). So, don't sit up too late, don't upset the neighbours by making too much noise, and especially don't make a mess. See you all in the morning. Thanks for the response maguiresbridge, you're a good lad.

  54. BADARSE

    Sep 24, 2014, 19:18 #57894

    Thank you for the vote of confidence Cornish Gooner, it's nice to have such a critic offering his opinion so freely, I shall endeavour to aspire to your expected levels, just give me time.

  55. A Cornish Gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 18:45 #57893

    GBP. I was commenting on what YOU were forecasting, not others. I obviously missed the implied 'if' in your original post.

  56. GBP

    Sep 24, 2014, 18:34 #57892

    CG - Without a doubt we ve fallen from 2004 levels, unarguably so. My point is that the door may well open up to Mr U if the scenario that many forecast (in fact many posters bizarrely seem to want!)comes to pass ie we slip to 5th 6th or 7th etc. Fan angst and so on prevails and maybe Kroenke thinks the kitchen is too warm for him, as Lerner has at Villa and those 2 american blokes who were at Liverpool did. They like the cash flow. Its always the bottom line and the top price for Americans CG but they dont so much like it when the going gets tough with some ventures.

  57. GBP

    Sep 24, 2014, 18:22 #57891

    F Joe - Is that Harry Redknapp youre describing there? Maybe Terry Venables? Lack of talent, fraud, thief, boring. Could be any Spud Coach really? So many, its hard to pinpoint just one!

  58. A Cornish Gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 18:17 #57890

    @GBP. 'Fact is he will buy the lot out soon enough and sack Wenger in my opinion.He'll wait till we fall a bit further.' Suggests that you think we have already fallen, and that things will get worse. Is that right? @BADARSE. I know you find it clever and amusing to constantly refer to the Dark Moanies, but it's becoming a bit boring really. I'm sure you can do better.

  59. kilkenny cat

    Sep 24, 2014, 18:16 #57889

    It is already clear we will have to score at least 3 in every game to win it. Ogl has left us so short in defensive areas its almost sabotage. The trouble is this team is so predictable thanks to ogl it wont happen too often. Wenger is serving Kronke and he only cares about money. Another frustrating season awaits.

  60. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 18:08 #57888

    BADARSE, I don't have a pair of willies but I'm sure there's someone who does i suppose that would make him a double **** head. Oh sorry you mean wellies no I don't have a pair of them either no need i'm not a farmer the only slurry I see is on fields, and it can be seen and at the Emirates quite often also, and there was a lot of it being spread the other night against Dortmund, and a lot of it being talked over and over by old farmer Giles himself. The nearest beach is forty miles away so not much chance of running into quicksand either there's enough of that been thread already so thanks anyway but i'll not need your advice, but it's good advice for your messiah though.

  61. Rocky RIP

    Sep 24, 2014, 18:05 #57887

    @ Finsbury Joe - as in Phil Collins, the big Spurs fan? Remember his half-time interview on the pitch at Wembley in 1991? He's the sort of fan your club attract.

  62. BADARSE

    Sep 24, 2014, 18:02 #57886

    If you dig deep enough eventually something in common may be found, FJ we agree on Phil Collins, but dig as deep as I did all I then found was Australia-I quickly made a point of losing it again, sorry Athoz. Hiccup-'BOO!', no it didn't cure you, did it? Still, we live in hope buddy, ha ha. You really are a trier, I give you that, and would always want you in my team, but really! We concentrate on the two in front of us, in January the CL is dormant so along comes the FA Cup. Dependent on circumstances we try to win the game, as we did last night. No Arsenal fan from the brighter side has ever wanted Arsenal to lose, however I have seen that kicked around regularly by the Dark Moanies, 'If it got rid of AW then I'd have preferred to lose to Hull.' Wow, gargantuan statement. Now go and get Bardshoppinglister out of stasis, please, you are approaching an asteroid belt.

  63. Th14afc

    Sep 24, 2014, 17:45 #57885

    Finsbury joe has come out of hiding again...this is a recurring theme,the spuds loose and he doesn't dare comment for days...arsenal slip up and he's back again...until spurs slip up....the cycle keeps on going....u never responded Finsbury,I stated that u were saying that after last weekend arsenal weren't going to be in Ucl places,well what happened

  64. Finsbury Joe

    Sep 24, 2014, 17:39 #57884

    Jumpers, I would not mention Wenger in the same post as Paul MaCartney, let alone Sinatra. More Sinitta than Sinatra. If wenger were to be compared with such people, it would have to be Phil Collins....one good album, they downhill from there, predictable, boring, a fraud, a thief, in the end exposed for all his many faults, and a complete lack of talent or ability to move with the times. You cannot fool all of the people all of the time, unless the people in question are ABKs

  65. Hiccup

    Sep 24, 2014, 17:17 #57883

    Badarse. Very controversial of you hoping that we can defend our FA Cup? I don't think that will sit well with the rest of the super fan fraternity on here. Just wonder from January when Westie and Jamie are hoping and praying we get knocked out at every stage that we progress to, whether you'll be delivering a sermon to these guys that trying to win trophies is quite acceptable for a football club?

  66. BADARSE

    Sep 24, 2014, 17:07 #57882

    So the USSR gave Usmanov a sheet of paper saying he was also a Russian-they used to do that with the Roman Empire, that was a nonsense too. On a technicality anything is possible. Usmanov is still an Uzbeck, with perhaps Russian duality. Point is with the fall of communism the asset-strippers moved in and divied up the whole shebang to their cronies, one of which was the gangster Abramovitch. They all used their clout to procure huge fortunes at the expense of the population, a bit like they do in this country, except Russia became lawless, a bit like the wild west of old. All those sitting atop enormous fortunes were the chosen ones and should perhaps be avoided. However to continue in the same vein, we are powerless, and as GBP suggests he may well just await the closing of the deal at sometime hence. Anyway, who are you? Don't bother, it's pretty uninspiring stuff. Bard, brilliant account. I loved that and once again, wish I'd been watching. There is a real danger all those this side of the fence will drift to the Dark Side then, but all those Dark Moanies will see the light and come skipping into the sunlight, if so, can I watch?

  67. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 17:02 #57881

    Red Member,yes that just goes to show the fans expectations now, and the way this manager has everyone, it's got to the stage where a defeat doesn't/didn't come as a surprise to anyone, sad, but it's all very convenient now, for some anyway.

  68. Bard

    Sep 24, 2014, 16:37 #57880

    I missed the game thank goodness but I have news for those interested. I met up with the delightful Helen last night. She contacted me on the Dark Moonie website, currently boasting a million hits a minute and we agreed to miss the game and meet up at the Old Cock and Bull in the Angel. I had trouble getting there and was half an hour late. I saw her alone in the corner surrounded by about 5 empty pint glasses. I had a small red wine ever mindful that I wouldnt want to be bedwetting later if I got lucky.That wasnt the half of it though she had these huge popeye forearms and a very croaky, husky voice. I should have joined up the dots but...I didnt. We exchanged pleasantries and I must admit I thought things were going very well if you know what I mean. It wasnt long before the temperature rose dramatically as we started discussing matters Arsenal. She told me heroic tales of twatting fans in block D at the Emirates. I gave my usual faultless analysis which I saw that Helen couldnt quite follow. Suddenly she reached across and grabbed me round the throat. I hate you Bard and all you Moonies and if you dont stop posting Im going to break every bone in your body. Suddenly everything came together, the arms, the stories and the difficulty following an argument. Pete is that you. He started to sob. He said he was desperate to cross the divide and join the ever growing band of Moonies but wasnt sure how to or whether we would accept him. I promised him we would but that he would have to learn to follow an argument and write a warm loving post to Jeff Wright. He said he could do the former but not the latter, which I accepted. We hugged and said our goodbyes. So while you lot were enduring another defensive cock up I was hard at work converting the unbelievers. So where were we the Arsenal defence.......

  69. GBP

    Sep 24, 2014, 15:51 #57879

    CT - Loew is an interesting one, but hes been long into international stuff. Can he convert easily? Not sure. Ive not vilified Usmanov. Many have though on the basis of extravagant internet blog stuff. For what its worth i think Usmanov will eventually own Arsenal. Hes playing the long game now. Hes wised up and realised belligerence wont get him anywhere Hes making nice noises now about the Board and Wenger. Fact is he will buy the lot out soon enough and sack Wenger in my opinion.He ll wait till we fall a bit further. He'll then get shares cheaper as Kroenke runs for cover im guessing, as the top is sliced of the value. Will it be good for Arsenal? Who knows? Abramovitch was a hated figure once upon a time.Many Manure fans jump about over the Glazers, you're quite right. Im not too sure many know why they do though. Its herd mentality perhaps?They shout levered debt from the rooftops. Its far from uncommon and Utd are a special case with special commercial pull vis other less fortunate Clubs.As for Kroenkes cash from Arsenal, he more or less owns the circus, so he s entitled to the candy floss. You wont change that. You can react though. Don't go anymore. I like Martinez but suspect he would do a Moyes by joining Arsenal right now. A couple more years at Everton will do him good by which time maybe he s a possibility as Arsene draws to a close on his contract.He maybe a target for a top Spanish Club though by then.

  70. CT Gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 15:35 #57878

    @GBP. I believe the discussion on replacing Wenger needs to be put on hold until it means something. I've expressed my reasons for him leaving, but they are primarily lack of tactical ability and his arrogance & contempt toward us fans (i include you, even if you don't feel it). I'd try and get Low (though I think he'd turn us down given the downward spiral our clubs been in for the last decade). I'd consider Rossler and Martinez too. I don't look at these guys as sexy, rather coaches who have had success with limited resources. As for ownership, why have you vilified Usaminov, I've never reffered to him as "Devil's apprentice"? We don't know him so how can you or I judge? And I'm sorry, I think UTD are in a far worse position since the Glazers took over, and I don't think many UTD fans would argue

  71. Usmanov

    Sep 24, 2014, 15:23 #57877

    Actually BADARSE I was born in Soviet Uzbekistan and I am a Russian citizen.

  72. CT Gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 15:22 #57876

    @ Badarse, I'm hear you and am glad we agree on this, though it's difficult to know what hurts more, the frying pan or the fire. I personally don't like the frying pan, and can't see the fire as being any worse. I really hate that the club no longer has stewards in the boardroom and now has profiteers....Ah well, maybe we'll win his 4th place trophy.

  73. TT

    Sep 24, 2014, 15:21 #57875

    I think it was a little disrespectful to a very good Southampton side to "only" play Bellerin, Chambers, Hayden and Coquelin as our back four. But having said that, with apparent minor niggles to Gibbs and Mertersacher, we simply cannot risk them. Agree, offensive problems meant we went out, on paper the team should have created and scored more but obviously it wasnt our night. Secondly, just goes to show the difference a year can make. Same time last season, there would be people calling for Wengers head for allowing us to exit a winnable competition. Luckily we are FA cup winners so can accept the exit this time!

  74. GBP

    Sep 24, 2014, 15:19 #57874

    CT - Its strange how Usmanov is now sort of cloaked in respectability when it suits to use his name to prop up a fallow argument. Not long ago he was the devils apprentice. You might be better equipped than me to compare him with the Glazers, but its an inescapable fact that the Glazers don't seem to injured Manure too much. As for Kroenke, is it an absolute that hes worse than anybody else or better? Do you really have a handle on the answer? If you do many would like you to share it.As for you passing the buck on this known better Coach/s, thats deftly done but for the record, no we dont know who this paragon is. Whats more its for you to suggest who it is, its you that want Wenger despatched like a cold bag of chips. Who is it? Whos plainly available and what do you know of their salaries? Change will come. Its coming but im pretty sure some of you dont appreciate the disruption that a change of coach causes a Club. When Arsenal do it,surely its better to know that it will happen in a controlled, managed manner and not a panic riddled, baby out of the bathwater method adopted by Tottenham, Manure, Liverpool and many others.Maybe you prefer chaos?

  75. BADARSE

    Sep 24, 2014, 14:39 #57873

    CT Gooner, firstly, Usmanov is an Uzbeck, not a Russian. Secondly, Kroenke owns us body and soul. Now whether he is a 'toe rag', or the modern business equivalent, is academic, he is the major shareholder and calls the shots. You have to like it or lump it, no other options available I'm afraid. Accept that you cannot change it, and move on. So many of life's problems are insoluble. I think you are skiing off piste again. Forget all the other gibberish, focus on Kroenke and disliking him, accept you cannot alter things, and then dismiss the plague in your mind. We are together on this chum, and we are quite definitely powerless. Mind if you had your way you'd jump from the frying pan into the fire with the other guy.

  76. BADARSE

    Sep 24, 2014, 14:25 #57872

    European weather reports suggest a deep depression over Tenerife. An odd phenomenon as it is accompanied with extremely high pressure. There is much hot air in the area, with the likely event of sudden downpours and violent winds. Dogger, German Bight, Hebrides, jeff wright, Viking, Cromarty, Forties, Yawn, Humber, Fisher. Hope you are having a good break fella, we miss you-some like a headache it's true, but miss you all the same. Now, in the coming electric thunder storm, go up to Mount Teide, attach the pretty foil butterflies, and fly that kite, young man!

  77. CT Gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 14:14 #57871

    Thanks Kev for this, didn't catch the game, but don't feel I've missed anything. Reading some of the posts, I'd really like to understand why some are so protective of our management and leadership. Our major share owner has been quoted as loving the way the Glazers are running Man U, and talks of why should the fans care about him sucking out funds, "it's his ATM, don't you know". That's the attitude of American Billionaires, just be thankful he's selling you a ticket! So all those hating the Russian oligarch for the instability he could bring, I'd argue anything is better than what the Glazers have done. As for Wenger and the AKBs who like to entertain themselves by bringing up names they find laughable as replacements, lets stop picking the scab. Even you know better mangaers are out there on far less money...

  78. GBP

    Sep 24, 2014, 14:08 #57870

    Rocky - The atmosphere you speak of was the much needed passion release of the working and lower classes for whom football was a once a week release, an injection of unbridled joy for a team they 'felt' for related too. You make very good comments and most would have to agree. Its gone though and youre left with your hot dog munchers and selfie obsessives dressed in designer gear and shades. Hell, even the players are at it! Look at that idiot Scezney (spelling) last Season. The Emirates is the worst venue for it, you're quite right.

  79. BADARSE

    Sep 24, 2014, 14:04 #57869

    Oh this site is so funny. Thank you for a huge laugh GBP. maguiresbridge, are your W-E-L-L-I-E-S full up with that black and oozing negativity? You know the only way out of quicksand is to lean forward into it and swim out. Kick off the boots and try it-you may make the bank, because nearby you will...'picture yourself in a boat on a river, with tangerine trees and marmalade skies, somebody will call you, you'll answer quite slowly, the three amigos with kaleidoscope eyes..'

  80. GBP

    Sep 24, 2014, 13:55 #57868

    Badarse - Maguiresbridge is in that black foreboding vortex that many have slipped into. He walked to the edge of the abyss, took a peek over the edge, then another peek, then thought 'shall i or shan't i', thought a bit more, saw Jeff and thought maybe its not so bad and then erred a little more ...... then went for it. Over the edge into the black, slurry filled hole of negativity ..whoooooosh. Once in it, theres no escape, no turning back. The black hole has got him, gorging on him voraciously. He cant turn, he cant revert to thinking it wasnt so bad back there on the sunny side where he understood the warts and faults but kept his love really. Hes now tied to his black theories. He has to stick with it to justify the leap.One shout or thought of positivity and the vortex will expunge him summarily. Hes tormented and tortured. Hes a really nice lad really, tormented with why, why, why, did i do it thoughts as he hurtles to oblivion. Its such a shame. He only had to chat to Tony or Bard et al and he would have seen another route, but alas, he took counsel from Hiccup and then responded to Jeffs exhortations and leapt to his fate.

  81. Rocky RIP

    Sep 24, 2014, 13:51 #57867

    @ El Bodgeo - I'll never allow myself to get my head around that. We may as well give up and support Sainbury's @ Badarse - points taken. Managing expectations is all part of being a fan. Gallows humour and all that. If the football is dire, crowds have to provide their own entertainment as coping mechanisms. I'm wasting my time complaining about the hot dog crowd and apologies for repeating myself, but my beef with these people is their affect on the atmosphere. They arrive late, leave early and just sit on their hands in silence, with their bag of merchandise beside them and offer nothing to the vocal backing the team needs. (They even frown on anyone who does try to stir up some noise. The comply silently with the stewards.) We both grew up knowing that attending Arsenal came with a role of backing the team unreservedly - chanting and shouting yourself hoarse. It was the norm. Sadly the hot dog and ipad crowd prevail at home games, which, along with extortionate prices, is why many hard core Gooners threw in the towel and decided it wasn't for them any more.

  82. Tony Evans

    Sep 24, 2014, 13:37 #57866

    GBP - I felt sorry for Bellerin against Dortmund, horrible game to make your first team debut, but as you say he looks like he might have what it takes.

  83. BADARSE

    Sep 24, 2014, 13:36 #57865

    @maguiresbridge, are you the type who buys into conspiracy theories? (Do the Dark Moanies really live on the Dark Side of the Moon?). I ask as my router seems to have the old grey cells spluttering and backfiring there, and once more you are talking in plurals. It is symptomatic with some-I have never known anyone admit to having less than eight inches-which is stretching it a bit, perhaps that lie is why at half time they scamper to get hot dogs. One is one and all alone and evermore shall be. Sorry I had to sing it to you-it is a teaching technique and surprisingly helps. Anyway dude, whenever I refer to you wearing W-E-L-L-I-E-S, the computer types willies-they're all at it buddy, ha ha. jjetplane-hilarious. There seems to be a disconnection with modern life from yourself, which I understand and could only go along with. However why does your disenchantment always seem to manifest itself as a, 'screw Arsenal' jibe? The comments are becoming more and more Sour. Lower league footie? Many great endorsements, and a plethora of them from me, but not rose-tinted ones chum. Two weeks ago an Under 15 game-and you cannot get much lower than that in competitive footie- was on the verge of abandonment due to 'caring and passionate' parents. Screaming abuse and personal threats at officials and other opposing Mums and Dads. Sometimes even you, with your thinking head on, compute the wrong conclusion. Observation is the easy part, analysis is the mind-stretching bit.

  84. Jay (Sorry but a rant )

    Sep 24, 2014, 13:19 #57864

    Ok I have to comment, I understand the club have to attain lucrative sponsorship deals and would have preferred they hadn't chose Huawei due their dubious history and controversies but now to find this type of stuff being pushed on the gooner is disappointing as its supposed to be for fans. Maybe its progress, maybe it's the modern day thing and cash is king but isn't it rather funny that in the past their has been a reluctance to refer to the emirates stadium by its actual name but now your pushing a mobile phone essentially manufactured by the chinese government and chinese peoples liberation army. Great stuff gooner well done Please tell Huawei to shove their poxy phone up their... (please note I don't work for apple or samsung! and have no commercial motivation for saying this ) p.s currently reading A & A. great book. Recommended for all fans and as good as "making of.." I reckon

  85. jjetplane

    Sep 24, 2014, 13:15 #57863

    Reckon there will be more battling for that 4th place with the likes of Southampton who have a coach who looks well up for it. Got a great history of football behind him unlike OGL who is famous for a bit of beach ball now. Sounds like a horror show RED MEMBER at the Emirates. Thank **** I am now watching 9th tier footer every week with a couple of hundred people who just love football. That has to be the most deplorable white flag job yet for a cup exit though Ronnie would have done the same to a stronger Arsenal. Like the losses to rubbish like the present LVH circus, Arsenal have it ****ded to lose certain things year, year out. Anyone care to mention the spirit ..... At the moment it is floating around a ranch somewhere in Colorado. And people want real Arsenal supporters to back that? ..... The default is disgust but I love football and shall be watching the Saints development along with Leicester. Upcoming 'derby' is beginning to morph into a loser's day out at a theme park. Time to put up a statue of Stan lol ....

  86. maguiresbridge gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 13:11 #57862

    Did we really expect anything else Kev, at least it was a premier ship team, and it's good to see no one hiding and all routers up and running. I suppose the fact it's the Carling cup that nobody cares about has something to do with that. Our young and future saviours( along with a couple of old ones) were on show, although they didn't show us much, have we a flappy mk 2 on our hands although to be fair it was only one game. You'd have thought they would have been keener to impress and get a result as they'll have to wait for the FA cup until we see them again, that should keep some fans happy as like OGL they don't deem it important either, although they might have changed their minds after last year and the fact it's the only trophy we have a chance of winning, depending on who we meet. The Carling Cup is over and as you say OGL will hardly lose any sleep over it, lets hope he cares more on Saturday and has another sound nights sleep, as the rest of us stay up late sinking a few.

  87. BADARSE

    Sep 24, 2014, 13:06 #57861

    Rocky RIP, yes some are only interested in the half time hot dog, it's now the way of the world chum. Why? Because they are worth it! It's a far greater problem than just our 'new' fans buddy, it's symptomatic with the direction society is heading. Many turn up as theatre goers now. Sure they are fans, just perhaps a little different to you or I. However there is another ingredient in all this. When you are prepared for defeat, as in last night-a weaker side against a flying team-losing is expected and accommodated, so few complain. Many years ago I went to Griffin Park a few times with a pal. The fans there never expected to win the game, mostly they were right. The popular pastime during the game for these 'happy-go-lucky' supporters was when the ball was skied up in the air-it happened in this standard regularly-and crashed against the Main Stand roof. Prepared for this event they all turned their collars up and laughed their heads off as the anticipated rust came showering down upon them. I preferred the hot dog to be honest.

  88. GBP

    Sep 24, 2014, 13:04 #57860

    Hi Tony - Bellerin looked ok v Dortmund didnt he. Hes one that might develop and make it (just might!)

  89. Paul The Ped

    Sep 24, 2014, 13:00 #57859

    The North London Derby is actually being played on Sunday at 17:30 .

  90. El Bodgeo

    Sep 24, 2014, 12:59 #57858

    Rocky RIP, it's not our club. Its his club. Better get your head around it.

  91. vintage gooner

    Sep 24, 2014, 12:57 #57857

    Good post Kevin and I missed most of the match so will confine comment to team selection. My only criticism would have been that I might have liked to see one or two more youngsters from our Academy eg Zelalem and possibly Crowley. However with so many of the first team squad looking to need and benefit from game time I guess we had a problem. Certainly the benefit of a further minor cup run needs to be set against the risk of future injuries diminishing the squad available for major trophies.

  92. Tony Evans

    Sep 24, 2014, 12:41 #57856

    Very fair assessment, Kevin. Bellerin looked half decent which was one positive to come out of last night.

  93. GBP

    Sep 24, 2014, 12:19 #57855

    Jamie - Wait till the cry goes up for Paul Lambert and Keane as their new dream ticket if Villa keep going well. Keane will add 'passion'no doubt. Not many about this am. I'm guessing quite a few are at their GPs seeking stronger prescriptions.

  94. Rocky RIP

    Sep 24, 2014, 12:14 #57854

    @ Red Member - many of our current match going fans are more interested in the half time hot dog than the result. Depressing state of affairs. Their apathy and indifference towards Stan Kroenke raising season ticket prices by 3% and then conveniently pocketing a £3m fee for 'advisory services' is even more alarming. Get this leech out of our club.

  95. Emilio Zorlakki

    Sep 24, 2014, 12:13 #57853

    Totally agree Kevin.

  96. Rocky RIP

    Sep 24, 2014, 12:04 #57852

    @ Jamie - add Owen Coyle to that list. Plenty were calling for him as the next Arsenal manager for a brief spell a few years ago. The same people gone quiet on that one. A few good results for a smaller club (which is commendable in itself) and suddenly they are more tactically astute than our current manager and fully equipped to fulfil our dreams of delivering us the title and champions league, despite no record of serious success whatsoever.

  97. JAMIE

    Sep 24, 2014, 11:53 #57851

    Smithy-what about if you turn to plan b yet they respond by turning to their plan b so negating your plan b.And what if you then turn to plan c which causes them to revert back to their first choice which is plan a which causes you to fall further behind as you are in your third choice plan c.You then revert back to plan a which they are also in and you are no better off than you started.

  98. Hilarious

    Sep 24, 2014, 11:49 #57850

    Bard- Keep gently mocking the pompous, the self-righteous and the sanctimonious. Their lack of a genuine sense of humour always shines through.

  99. Red Member

    Sep 24, 2014, 11:42 #57849

    you know what was really remarkable last night - I didnt hear any grumbling amongst supporters. most of the present day supporters at the Emirates just view going to a match as a day/evening out. The result seemingly irrelevant.

  100. Smithy

    Sep 24, 2014, 11:37 #57848

    It wasn't the best result but a competition less will certainly do us favours due to our annual injury crisis.We are certainly stretched at the back.We do seem to have too many similar style of players, we never seem to have a plan b or c. The last 10 minutes we should have launching the ball into their box but we continued to try and pass our way through.Even Barca go route one if they have to, still as others have said I am not that bothered,we have bigger fish to fry!

  101. Edmund

    Sep 24, 2014, 11:32 #57847

    Actually there is a positive side to this. The fact that Wenger gambled instead of fielding his best 11 shows he is no longer looking at small cups as his salvation but targeting bigger prizes. The only flip side is that Rosicky, Campbell, Poldi and Akpom are really rusty and can no longer be relied on to step in when needed. The old 'Arsenal team DNA' is gone and really replacements don't slot in anymore.

  102. BADARSE

    Sep 24, 2014, 11:31 #57846

    Thanks Kev. @Bard in response to your last post. I accept your point and it seems to be shortage of quality men for this defeat. I assume like me you felt the fielded team was about right, was also a side that might have won the match. Southampton are not lower table dross and it showed. Two hard done by bits of play undid us, reckless tackle and a penalty, and a goal of the season screamer. They deserved their victory and we have no complaints. So where does it leave us after the event and the postings between us? We put out a reasonable side which was available to us and just came undone against a goodish team. We both-all-recognise it isn't the be all and end all of games or competitions. So basically you are saying, we haven't the quality and with key injuries it showed. I agree. So we are in accord, and it begs the question, what was your original point trying to prove? Anyway, no injuries, so onwards and upwards. Roll on Saturday and the visit of the Sours.

  103. Ozzie

    Sep 24, 2014, 11:27 #57845

    You say "...that greater defensive depth in the squad would have made no difference..." but to have 'greater defensive depth' would have created an entirely different pattern of play which likely would have produced a different result. Not that I care about this particular comp but some of our future players didn't exactly excite, did they?

  104. JAMIE

    Sep 24, 2014, 11:23 #57844

    Koeman will join the long line of managers the AMG's have got down as being 'Tactically Aware' Like Moyes,Redknapp,Martinez,Rodgers,Van Gaal,Pardew,Pocchetino,Laudrop and many more. They wax lyrical about these men and then watch as these same men make complete arses of themselves and so spend the rest of their time reversing,back peddling and wiping egg of their faces.

  105. GBP

    Sep 24, 2014, 11:03 #57843

    Smack on Kev. Nobodys too bothered.

  106. Jumpers for Goalposts

    Sep 24, 2014, 11:01 #57842

    Nothing is going to change until Wenger AND Kroenke are gone. We will beat the likes of Villa / West Brom / Burnley with ease but each victory will be followed by a defeat to any decent side with a tactically aware manager. Even a victory against Spurs this weekend will only paper over the cracks. Wenger used to be a brilliant manager but like Frank Sinatra, Paul McCartney and many, many others he has gone on way past his sell by date.

  107. Finsbury Joe

    Sep 24, 2014, 11:01 #57841

    same old Arsenal, failing again. Stan now officially taking the money, Wenger should remember that when he scrimps and saves, and so should the fans...when Wenger scrimps and saves...and season tickets go up

  108. Roy

    Sep 24, 2014, 10:27 #57840

    Like you Kev, and quite a few others no doubt, I suspected a defeat may be in the offing last night. A gamble as you say, but let's hope it pays off big time on Saturday.