Why I believe Arsène Wenger should have departed long ago

Reasoned arguments for the other POV invited



Why I believe Arsène Wenger should have departed long ago


This week marks the 18th anniversary of Arsene Wenger becoming Arsenal manager, a truly incredible achievement in modern football. He arrived from Japan as a figure unknown to the vast majority of English football fans. Amongst those of us that are old enough, I doubt if even one person believed that he would be so successful, nor did anyone believe that he would still be our manager nearly two decades later.

Three Championships; two doubles; one glorious unbeaten season – all achieved in his first eight years in charge. Arsene was slowly building the foundations to transform Arsenal from a great English club into a great European club and many of us felt that Arsene’s Invincibles would surely conquer Europe, as they had conquered England. But the expected dominance failed to materialise and to this day, nobody outside the Marble Halls really knows why.

Slowly but surely, first place became fourth place; cup victories against the odds became mind-numbing defeats to Birmingham, Blackburn, Bradford, Braga or Wigan; dominant victories became humiliating defeats like the 8-2 at Old Trafford; the 6-0 at Stamford Bridge or the 5-1 at Anfield. These are not one-offs that can be dismissed. Collectively they are indicative of a Club with a losing mentality.

There are many theories, ranging from David Dein’s acrimonious departure to Arsene’s determination not to follow the Abramovich route to success. One day somebody at our great Club may break ranks and tell all but that is unlikely. It seems then, as if the reasons for our decline will never be known. However, one thing is known – with the assets available to him, Arsene Wenger should have achieved so much more since 2004.

And that brings me on to the real point of this article. Our fan-base is now hopelessly divided between those that feel Arsene should depart and those that want him to carry on regardless. This argument has raged for years now and I’ve followed it closely. There has been far too much abuse from both sides, but the thing that strikes me most is that the Pro-Wenger Arsenal fans are utterly unable to advance a persuasive and cohesive argument as to why he is still the best man to re-create his early success.

Their arguments invariably resort to positions like:-
1. Give him time and he’ll turn it around
2. He has been starved of funds / we can’t compete with the billionaires
3. Wait until Financial Fair Play comes in
4. Our Champions League qualification record
5. Be careful what you wish for
6. F*** off and support Chelsea / Spurs / Citeh / anybody else…

In relation to 1, 2 and 3, these arguments may have been true up to 2010 / 2011 but they cannot be advanced now. Our wage bill has long been in excess of £150 million a year and it has recently risen above Chelsea’s. Eboue, Song, Bendtner, Denilson and Gervinho have departed and big transfer fees are now being paid, but the same problems remain. For years we have been unable to win the high pressure matches and every half decent manager has worked out how to beat any team that Wenger sends out.

Furthermore Wenger’s transfer policy defies logic and his supporters seem blind to his deficiencies. He haggled over Edwin van der Sar and Mark Schwarzer, missed out on both and left us with Manuel Almunia. He paid £6million for Andre Santos / £11 million for Gervinho / £5million for Squillaci amongst many others; at the same time he was awarding enormous contracts to several woefully bad players.

When we needed a striker in January 2014 he brought in an injured Kim Kallstrom. When we needed defensive cover in the summer of 2014, he brought in yet more small attacking players. Worst of all he has steadfastly refused to bring in a world-class defensive midfielder, preferring instead Song or Denilson and now the slow, aging and not very good Arteta or Flamini. And his obsession with playing players out of position is baffling and counter-productive.

I debate often with two ardent football fans at work, one a Gooner and one a Spurs fan. Both are older, highly intelligent men and both think I’m mad for wanting Wenger to leave. Their arguments are that Wenger has had no money to which I always point out that our wage bill is one of the highest in the world and Wenger himself said that if given £100million, he would give it straight back.

They also argue that we cannot compete with “The Billionaires” to which I always point out that our 2nd largest shareholder is the richest man in Great Britain, but he is banned from our Boardroom. Their best argument is always that Wenger would be great again if he signed the right players. Talk about missing the point! That is the exact reason why so many Arsenal fans want a new manager – because Arsene Wenger doesn’t sign the right players to build a team like he did ten years ago.

So many times I’ve heard people say “If he signed a defensive midfielder ...” But that’s the whole point – he doesn’t sign one. He signs the same type of player over and over again and we keep crumbling under any pressure. So much so, that we currently have six players for the four defensive positions but 19 for the front six positions. This is bordering on negligence and nothing indicates that Wenger will ever re-capture his early brilliance.

All Gooners surely want the same thing. We want Arsenal to be successful again. For my Tottenham supporting friend at work, success would be finishing fourth but we are not Tottenham and they are not the standard we should judge ourselves by. So – without being abusive, can pro-Wenger Gooners please put forward their reasons why they believe that Arsene Wenger will bring successful football back to Arsenal?


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  1. WENGER MUST GO(MARCUS)

    Oct 05, 2014, 17:11 #58548

    Bravo what a great article. It could have been written today lol. Another loss away to a SO CALLED RIVAL LOL. You could not make this up. Wenger does not have a RIVAL with Mourinho its complete DOMINATION!!! The man is washed up and the sooner he goes the better for the club. This season top 4 is looking shaky that holy grail. Yet I bet the usual delusional brigade( what I call them now) will still defend their messiah. I ask you lot this one question. Will arsenal ever win the league under wenger again?? simple question. Don't dodge answer it. I hate Mourinho with a passion hes a arrogant fool and has no respect, but wenger got desperate and resulted into pushing him lool. The man is finished wake up. Hes not going to win the league. If you cant win the league with a 8 point lead than its never going to happen again under him. We need a change folks. Today quality hurt us again. Hazzard was fantastic, fabregas was unbelievably good again. That's now 7 assists. He turned him down folks for wilshere folks, not Ozil as fabregas is a cm not a number 10. Hes more of a QB. a player who I would have brought back in a heart beat, hes better than wilshere. Again wenger is just so deluded. He made up some nonsense that fabregas deal was done in January with Chelsea lool. Hes trying to cover hes back and he knows he made a terrible mistake letting him go to Chelsea. Ozil for again looks WEAK!!! The kids need to go to gym and get stronger. He looks weak. He looks like a little 16 year old. Even Oscar is not that weak. I'm sorry folks it was another loss away from home against a SO CALLED RIVAL. Its has been 4 seasons now since we won a match away from home against either Chelsea, man city or manure. I'm tired of it and I think this man has to go. WAKE UP!!! We wont be winning the pl or champions league under this man. Look im not here to have arguments with delusional wenger fanboys. Just like this article which destroys every deluded bunches argument. Lets have a factual argument not a pathetic school ground spat. Let me lay down a fact 12-0 against Mourinho!!! That is a fact its not making stuff up its a fact. Moyes took four points of us against us last season, yes moyes loool. Keep defending that. Now wenger is talking about financial power lol as the reason why we lost. I THOUGHT WE HAD THE MONEY NOW???? So is it all bunch of nonsense?? FANS WAKE UP!!! Why is Usmanov not allowed on the board why!!! Its just getting disgusting and im tired of it. Chelsea fans singing wenger please stay. Its just disgusting. Feel so low. Yet folks will keep defending this every time.

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 04, 2014, 12:42 #58497

    There you go that says it all.

  3. Carlos

    Oct 04, 2014, 12:03 #58493

    In one article, you have summed up why the club has underperformed for the past 10 seasons, and will continue to do so for the remainder of the manager's contract.

  4. Harsh

    Oct 03, 2014, 17:54 #58465

    First of all, I would like to reason why Arsene shouldn't be let go anytime soon, and my main arguement for that is pont 5. Be careful what you wish for. In the 1925 close season, before Herbert Chapman was hired, Arsenal had just sacked Leslie Knighton and posted an advertisement in the Athletic News asking for applicants: "Arsenal Football Club is open to receive applications for the position of TEAM MANAGER. He must be experienced and possess the highest qualifications for the post, both as to ability and personal character. Gentlemen whose sole ability to build up a good side depends on the payment of heavy and exhorbitant [sic] transfer fees need not apply." But those days are over. Nowadays, you are not gonna sack a manager without a suitable replacement lined up, nor are you gonna pluck an unknown genius from Japan. And therefore, before you sack Wneger, you have to ask who are you gonna have replace him. I remember people were screaming for Moyes a couple seasons ago. Ok, the united squad was bad, but Wenger has achieved 4th place with worse squads. Klopp, Martinez aren't gonna leave anytime soon. And i would rather remain trophyless another decade than achieve trophies with the kind of football that guys like Mourinho play. Wenger is an idealist. His successful teams, were entertainers first and foremost. I am proud never to have witnessed my team park the bus. And how do i believe, Wenger can be successful again? First of all, because Wenger has been successful in the past, that at least proves he has the qualities to success at the top level. Second, he has good players now, players who are top level athletes, players who have been playing together, building chemistry. Third, there is good financial consistency and infrastructure at the club. When you combine all this factors, it all comes down to this: The day I stop believing that a top-level manager working with top-level players who have been playing together for a while now at a top-level club with consistent financial capabilities and top infrastructure cannot achieve success playing the right way; is the day I stop believing in football.

  5. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 03, 2014, 12:39 #58432

    Th14afc, cheers, yes I have a couple of man yoo mates myself and they are pissed off at the minute but it's good to see, and finally be able to have a laugh at them.

  6. Th14afc

    Oct 03, 2014, 0:33 #58411

    Hi maguiresbridge,I can't remember who exactly it was now but I remember some negative posts about Danny boy (not many) but there were afew....I loved it at work today,living in West Yorkshire it's 1 hour from manchester so a fair few utd fans were not best pleased with me runnin it in about welbeck....crackin point aswell maguiresbridge about whether if the cart horse didn't get injured wud we hav still bought welbeck,I'd suggest probably not,we all know how stubborn arsene is....or maybe not in this transfer window,maybe originally wenger had Danny earmarked as a left winger to replace podolski eventually and also sometimes play striker but girouds injury forced him to buy welbeck now...we'll never know but a great signing & he's only going to get better!

  7. A Cornish Gooner

    Oct 03, 2014, 0:03 #58410

    BADARSE. Unlike you to claim credit for something. You're wrong though. See our 'The Postman Finally Scores' article posts. I'm sorry you consider your posts to be gibbberish, but accusing us of being adept at it is hurtful and upsetting and frankly 'not nice'.

  8. jjetplane

    Oct 02, 2014, 18:19 #58397

    BARD and then he neglected to water the Pod and now the Pod is blooming pissed. CORNiSH knew Teech was spying on us. The Gibbers have been caught with their little mutts in the French cookie jar again. We must think how a code Teech no understande ..... Errrr Release the Frog (good game that).

  9. Bard

    Oct 02, 2014, 16:42 #58391

    Baddie : I enjoyed that lengthy fairy tale. My own preference is for 4-2-3-1 but I can do a fairy tale now and again. My favourite is the story of the football manager who resembled Peter Sellers in the film Being There, everyone thought he was terribly erudite and profound but in fact he was a gardener and an imposter but it didn't matter because everyone needs to believe in something no matter how idiotic it is. Sanogo is the new Anelka was one, I don't need another striker and then did or didn't depending on who you believe bought Welbeck is another.

  10. BADARSE

    Oct 02, 2014, 15:26 #58387

    Cornish and jj, see I have brought you both together, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and all that. Think you both secretly like the gibberish, both of you are quite adept at it.

  11. jjetplane

    Oct 02, 2014, 14:46 #58386

    CORNISH know what you mean. My feet are covered in egg yolk. It's good to lose with a coach you like. Right - see you on this corner again. Mum's the word ...

  12. A Cornish Sniper

    Oct 02, 2014, 14:42 #58384

    JJ. Can't say too much I'm afraid. I've been asked to show a more conciliatory side. Sorry about the 3-1 against BADARSE Town at the weekend though.

  13. jjetplane

    Oct 02, 2014, 14:24 #58380

    CORNISH notice how WESTIE ignores most of BADDIE'S a-level outpourings. The man is a numbers man - not a lover of 'must try harder prose'. Bit of a slog (!) ploughing through the misty repetitions but there you go. Or do not ...

  14. A Cornish Sniper

    Oct 02, 2014, 13:14 #58375

    BADARSE Maybe you can incorporate some of this in your next 'Post Of Nonsense'. They dined on mince, and slices of quince Which they ate with a runcible spoon; And hand in hand, on the edge of the sand, They danced by the light of the moon, The moon, The moon, They danced by the light of the moon.

  15. Ozzie

    Oct 02, 2014, 13:07 #58374

    ....By the way, which of Jamie and GBP are the Ventriloquist and the puppet?

  16. BADARSE

    Oct 02, 2014, 12:55 #58372

    Dawn was approaching like a hushed melody, 'Shhh, there's a kind of hush, all over the world, tonight...'. A owl hooted and a hedgehog scuttled homewards. In the kitchen julesd licked her lips, as westlower's weren't available. Here at Burk's (get my) Drift, out at the barricade stood our heroes in their scarlet tunics-with the white sleeves, bloodied but unbowed. GBP who never read the script properly, undid his 'Dickie bow tie'. westlower's eyes narrowed, then they narrowed some more. He was becoming dizzy, and just before he toppled over GoonerRon leant forward and replaced his pince-nez. BADARSE drew his sabre, it was a poor attempt, so screwed it up and redrew another, 'Ah, that's more like it.' the twit said, sliding it into his scabbard. Slowly they discerned the deep moaning sound beyond the scrubland. It grew louder as the WOB's approached, especially the far right, that's where MARCUS marched, and grumbled. They advanced up the hill, snuffling as they went. They all appeared to be talking at the same time, but no one seemed to be listening-it was definitely the real WOB's. As they reached the brow of the hill, the sun began to show. JAMIE, put his best foot forward, and tripped over his second best foot. Instantly westlower fell to one knee, a habit of his, mildly embarrassing at Tesco's checkout, deeply disturbing in the Grove's urinals during half time. He burst into song, 'There's a grief that can't be spoken. There's a pain goes on and on.' Grinning inanely, BADARSE tore open his tunic, revealing his "Hello Kitty" vest, and joined the duet,'Empty chairs at empty tables. Now my friends are dead and gone!' Just then the first shaft of light shone across the no man's land, and immediately the WOB's slowed to a shuffle. Low grunting noises emanated from the pack, some turned around looking lost. They began bumping into each other, and some fell out with their compatriots. Much tongue-poking, and gurning face-pulling took place, one or two even blew raspberries at their chums. The sunlight had disturbed and disarmed them. spaced and chris dee interrupting the singing, gently took the hands of westlower and BADARSE, and led them down towards the WOB's. Then all the heroes carefully tucked the WOB's heads between their knees, and gently rolled them back down the hill. Wibble, wobble they went, all the way down. lee afc couldn't help his friends, he sat crying with laughter at the shenanigans, including the dancing Rocky RIP still atop a table, which made up part of the barricade. The heroes turned and climbed back up onto the barricade, whereupon westlower immediately fell to one knee again. BADARSE took his cue and with imploring arm-extensions the twits burst into song once more,' One more day...'. radfordkennedy, muttered under his breath, 'Sod this for a game of soldiers-I'm a matelot with all said and done, one day is enough with this lot.' PETE, who was fascinated by the WOB's downhill descent, came last over the barricades, just like a train, 'Choo-choo', he went. The heroes assembled triumphantly beside the little outposts kitchen window. julesd popped her head out, 'POP!' it went. Then they all fell into a rendition of a "Seven Brides" classic of, 'Bless your beautiful hide...', with much knee slapping, braces tugging, and boot stamping. Oh what fun was had. Of course they all knew the WOB's would return, and it would be Groundhog Day again tomorrow. Never in the history of a football club have so many WC's been awarded in a single battle.

  17. Ozzie

    Oct 02, 2014, 12:53 #58371

    Maguiresbridgegooner - cheers chum! I've decided to join the Enlightened brigade - you seem to have more fun :)

  18. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 02, 2014, 12:02 #58366

    Ozzie,61639, post of the day even the month and so early too.

  19. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 02, 2014, 11:49 #58364

    Th14afc, who are these fools who slated the sighing of Danny boy, I've only heard it being welcomed and good things been said, it makes a change from our usual signings. And as the Editor has asked in his article over the page would we have even signed him if the cart horse wasn't injured.

  20. Bard

    Oct 02, 2014, 11:31 #58360

    Jamie GBP You need to behave. It's so upsetting being abused on a daily basis. Your carefully constructed posts are like daggers through my heart. Sometimes I feel like throwing my toys put of my pram and stopping posting for a few days. You will also upset Baddie who is very sensitive to this sort of post. He might leave altogether and that would be a shame.

  21. GBP

    Oct 02, 2014, 11:01 #58356

    Jamie - 61650 Your post implies that much of the bulls--- they spout each day has actually been thought through and considered. You're far too generous to them. Look at them now, trying to reconcile a great win in Europe with their routine daily trashings of Wenger and everything about the Club. Pathetic isn't it.

  22. JAMIE

    Oct 02, 2014, 10:05 #58352

    I reckon the wob's must all huddle together every morning and swap notes on what made up fiction they can invent for the day.It seems their theories change daily so does the latest team/player/manager they have made an idol out of.Chelsea,Mourinho and Costa are being bowed to at the moment yet a dip in form from the blues will see their coveting bulging eyes looking elsewhere.

  23. Miles F

    Oct 02, 2014, 10:04 #58351

    I think the Champions League final destroyed Wenger mentally. We could and should have won that match playing the Arsenal way, even after the mad German was sent off. The only way he could rationalise defeat was that Barcelona won because tika taka is superior. So we get years of Barcelona lite, with 10 attack minded players in the team and no ability to defend or play in other ways. We got the Champions League final because we had a beautifully balanced team - remember, no goals conceded in knock out rounds. Even in a 4-1 win against a mediocre Turkish side, we managed to make closing out a game with 9 men behind the ball an utter shambles because none of the midfield know how to defend (or care, it seems). Until this changes, we will not get beyond round of 16.

  24. TJ

    Oct 02, 2014, 9:25 #58350

    Westlower, look at the type of player that Chelsea and City play- mainly tall and physically strong. I can't think of too many times Mertesacker or Koscielny have been out for long periods. Also, what about Diaby out for about 260 days if you use a 38 week period as the season. The main problem is using the type of player we do without enough rotation, and also there seems to be a problem with the medical team, hence there being a new fitness coach.

  25. Westlower

    Oct 02, 2014, 9:20 #58349

    It's a sobering thought that Arsenal (1,716) lost key players for more days than CFC (556) & Man City (978) combined last season. News today that Man U are trying to poach Southampton's physio as their injury crisis shows no sign of abating. Has the game reached a physical level that a damaged human body cannot sustain over a lengthy period? Some natural breaks may help ease the situation with the New Year period being the obvious starting point, followed by limiting or scrapping the number of friendly International games.

  26. David

    Oct 02, 2014, 9:10 #58348

    @Westlower - agreed over the Rocastle observation. But not bitter toward the club, or AW for that matter; just not convinced he can still deliver. Therefore, it makes sense to replace him. Re: Danny Welbeck - why the spikey press conference where a clearly irritated AW said that he would never have bought DW had he been in the country? Anything since is just back-tracking and PR. Good PR maybe, and evidence that if pig-headedness is a fault of AW, pride isn't. It's unlikely that IG overlooked that particular press conference, and AWs subsequent statements have probably come about as a consequence of meetings with IG et al. IG goes up in my estimation.

  27. Westlower

    Oct 02, 2014, 8:35 #58347

    Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain plays more like Rocky Rocastle with each passing game. What a potent force he is becoming. No need to worry about Calum Chambers burning out as he's one yellow card short of a break. @David, Do you really believe Welbeck was bought against Wenger's wishes? Welbeck didn't become available to buy until Man U had secured Falcao's signature on the final day of the transfer window. Wenger has already stated he was made aware very early that morning that Welbeck was available and he sanctioned the move immediately. Buy why let the truth get in the way of yet another AW put down? You WOB's are so bitter towards your beloved club!

  28. Next Year For Sure

    Oct 02, 2014, 8:13 #58346

    It will all come right in the end. The problem is that in the end we'll all be dead.

  29. David

    Oct 02, 2014, 8:02 #58345

    @GBP - just a reminder that AW did NOT want to buy Danny Welbeck. The decision was made against his wishes. Not sure where that leaves the glorious leader...Perhaps, as AKB command when in his right mind would agree, with egg on his face, followed by flakes of humble pie down his big puffy coat. If AW can relocate his magic hat, then I'll gladly agree with the AKBs; but he's a long way from proving that he can do what he used to do.

  30. Westlower

    Oct 02, 2014, 8:00 #58344

    @Cornish, I've no idea how much CFC's 26 loaned out players earn but it sure isn't the minimum wage. If they were on a relatively low pay of £10k a week that amounts to £13.5m per year, but can only guess at the real worth.

  31. Bard

    Oct 02, 2014, 7:26 #58343

    Terrific performance from Welbeck and Sanchez. Love both of them and for 16m Danny is a steel. He will only get better. The turks were rubbish. Lets see how we do against Chelsea before we go overboard on the celebrations. Completely agree with poster about Chambers. He is a real find, but he is 19 and needs managing. He will be knackered or injured by Nov if he doesnt get a break.

  32. Wenger is going to crock Chambers

    Oct 02, 2014, 6:39 #58342

    Wenger is going to play a 19 year old Chambers in 4 high intensity games in 10 days. No other manager would do this. This is insane. This fraud of a manager is going to ruin Chambers by overplaying him and make him crocked. He did the same to Wilshere. This guy needs to be rid of before he destroys CHambers.

  33. Ozzie

    Oct 02, 2014, 4:50 #58341

    Most posts are in support of your views Mark and are not conned by a win in the chumpions league against an average outfit. But majority opinion means nothing to three blind mice.

  34. Matt

    Oct 02, 2014, 3:19 #58340

    Well reasoned. Good point. I think the most obvious reason i don't want Wenger to go yet is having a look at Manchester United. SAF's departure has caused a complete disaster, despite going to great efforts to hand pick a replacement (Moyes) before giving up and shooting money/names at the problem (LVG, Falcao, Di Maria). My main problems with Arsene are as follows 1) His insistence to play players out of position despite apparent irrefutable evidence that they can't (e.g. Ozil, Arshavin) 2) His insistence on the use of substitutes for fitness rather than game changers 3) His need to comfort and console his players to such a point that he doesn't replace them when they replaying badly, doesn't strip them of the captaincy when they aren't first choice, doesn't call them out after a poor display. I would like to see Wenger become a coach,a nd for us to hire a director of football to run transfers. i think Arsene cares to much about the players to do what's best for the club.

  35. A Cornish Gooner

    Oct 02, 2014, 1:31 #58339

    Westie. How much, roughly, do you reckon Chelsea are saving on their 26 players on loan and off the wage bill, compared to Arsenal's seven?

  36. DW Thomas

    Oct 02, 2014, 1:17 #58338

    My theory is Wenger lost the CL final and still has not gotten over it. Not a bad thing that either, except he has tried to emulate Barca at their peak,with substandard players. At least now we are buying quality. Problem is the team is an unfinished puzzle and always will be under Monsieur Knowz eet All! His arrogance that he could develop loyal youth in a greed driven world was idealistic but naive. If we had won the PL in 2008 I would probably not be as irritated as many of us now are. His unwavering adherence to failed philosophies is his own undoing. Why is it we've had way more injuries than other clubs over the last 10 year? Could it be squad depth? Non? Yet Wenger is baffled on why so many injuries? Anyone that says support the manager is his continued failure seems unable to see the truth. I don't think he's been lucky or unlucky. His decisions have led to his success and lack thereof. And he had Thierry and Dennis, once in a lifetime players. Viera didn't hurt either. Change will happen eventually. It's just that so much has been and will be missed out on in the meantime!

  37. Man United Killer

    Oct 01, 2014, 23:54 #58337

    Myopic and mediocrity-accepting Wengerites are piling out in full force in praise of their tactically clueless Lord for winning a game for which winning should be no story at all . Hold your horses and grab your keyboards come Sunday night.

  38. AKB Command

    Oct 01, 2014, 23:48 #58336

    GBP,JAMIE,BADARSE,Pete and Westlower are like five gunslingers blasting away at those no good red neck wobs who seem to be constantly riding backwards on their horses with egg dripping down their faces and offering up fearful howls to the moon God.The five heroes dressed in red and white have sung at least a thousand true songs while the hordes of red necks draped in many colours seem to only be singing the blues.The red necks despite constantly being shot down in flames foolishly always come back for more and seem to delight in their reputation of being utter moanies.

  39. Th14afc

    Oct 01, 2014, 22:09 #58335

    Well all the fools who slated us buying welbeck won't b piping up tonight....echoes of a young Thierry,dnt get me wrong im in no way comparing him the th14 but wow what a performance,Alexis was pure quality too despite galatasaray's attempts to break his legs...young chambers was a rock again & was good to see rosicky get a good run out....the goalie's moment of madness at least gave us chance to see ospina make some quality saves....oh and shut up moaning for once about wenger,embrace the moment

  40. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 22:04 #58334

    Hail Danny W and Arsene too. What a bargain that lad is going to prove.

  41. Westlower

    Oct 01, 2014, 21:56 #58333

    It's misleading to believe our wage bill matches CFC because they have 26 players out on loan & off the wages bill, compared to AFC's 7. Well done Danny Welbeck, keep it going son!

  42. Hiccup

    Oct 01, 2014, 21:44 #58332

    Well Mark, after that, I hope we can expect a full written apology to Mr Wenger and your resignation from writing in the OLG by the end of the evening. It's gonna be an egg fest on here now...

  43. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 21:43 #58331

    GBP, hundreds? afraid your imagination is running away with you again, the next time you and your mates are out camping in your new HQ you should think of changing captains as your present one wasn't much help over the last few days although he seems to have gotton his voice back all of a sudden, and reviewing discipline would do no harm as a couple of posts have let your group down over the last few days. As for unbeaten is it/there a contest? as far as i'm concerned and i'm quite sure everybody on here we all want and are more interested in what's best for Arsenal.

  44. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 21:09 #58330

    BADARSE, when a new man arrives in the hot seat (and the sooner the better) it might not be all that hot, especially if he's only charged with getting fourth. And who ever it is as your best mate westlower keeps telling us he will have his full support and all Arsenal fans also, there will be no wenger out mentalities the new man will have to get time to put/make his mark on the team/club after all your messiah had got eight years plus to get it right and is still trying, and I doubt very much he will have by the time his tenure is up. The new man will have to get at least three years or more before there can be any discontent shown(I doubt he'll get ten) unless he shows complete incompetence before then, but if it's left to YGL to pick him I wouldn't rule it out.

  45. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 20:56 #58329

    MG - have to laugh at this 'AKB central command'notion.ha Our team could be billeted in one tent!Theres only about 5 of us vis hundreds of you swarming all over us like dervishes. We re still here, unbowed, unfazed and unconvinced. You cannot beat us. The force of our solid unit and strength of our position holding the higher ground under the command of our Skipper is unbreakable and you know it!!Lead on Captain Badarse, discipline is with us, unlike this unruly mob of yobs.

  46. Big Andy

    Oct 01, 2014, 20:51 #58328

    This is the best article that I've ever read on this website. You've beautifully and concisely summed up the situation at the club, and exactly why Wenger should go now.

  47. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 20:18 #58327

    Lads isn't it's great to see there has been no routers going down tonight, and no toys been thrown out of the pram, no taking the huff, and no going AWOL (for a while anyway) all voices working well plenty of notice been taken of other posts and nobody being ignored, the record lock in at AKB Central command must have helped, (for a while anyway)

  48. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 19:42 #58326

    You posts are all wild assumption. 4 who cd do better?, loads who could create better teams? Youre trying to nail your blancmange to the wall now after youve given up trying to make it stick to it! Plus, you re not listening. When have you seen us who back Wenger say he should never go? Where have you read us say his departure might be catastrophic? You're sounding increasingly desperate. I hope you've not filed a witness statement in the case of Moanies v Wenger? Tell me that you havent? Youre the one moanie that i dont want to see you embarrassed in open Court? It ll be such a shame to see you torn apart. Youve been digging your hole for while, dont jump in it Bard.

  49. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 19:34 #58325

    jj, are you sure your not Irish? the blokes done, widely used over here for the past it's.

  50. BADARSE

    Oct 01, 2014, 19:14 #58324

    Bard, there you go again, with your word of the week, 'disingenuous'. You missed the point buddy. I chose them as the terror that awaits a lynch mob rule, and my point was that once it is accepted it is virtually impossible to shake. The follow up point is that they are permanently in disarray. I couldn't use CFC as an example because their changes are made by the owner, irrespective of fan's views. It is his plaything, a fantasy football league club, and he just buys the people at the very top. When sucked dry, or having fulfilled a usefulness, they are discarded. Then another high-roller steps up to the plate. Along with huge bargaining resources and a stellar squad it is tailor-made for success, though no guarantee it will be obtained. See season 2013-14 for factual evidence. Now 100 lines , 'I must not keep posting the word disingenuous.' @Guy in Jersey, Man in Pyjamas here. Couldn't resist that, though I should have, sorry. Thanks for the heads up. Come on you redmen!

  51. Rocky RIP

    Oct 01, 2014, 19:01 #58323

    @ Bard - major slices of luck? You're sounding like one of that lot now. Whose side are you on man? qualifying for the CL is based over 38 games, not on the final day. Over the course of those seasons you mention, we had far more go against us than for us. Much like most Mike Riley, Mike Dean-infested seasons. The lasagne incident is a myth anyway. The four seasons hotel would have been sued to f*** if it had been found to have been contaminated. It was tested thoroughly and not found to have been the cause. A Tottenham player had a bug and spread it to one or two others. Much like most of their history, it's been re-invented and re-written by them with them as victims. But for Henry Norris, but for the lasagne, etc. They've actually convinced the world that it was somehow our fault they got the sh*ts.

  52. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:56 #58322

    Mark Halfpenny, it was only a matter of time insults always come, even if their veiled.

  53. Bard

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:50 #58321

    Rocky. I did get that but I could put forward several names and you couldnt say definitively that they would or they wouldnt, yours was a hypothetical question. Maybe the answer might be we wouldnt have had 17 years of CL qualification but we might have won the PL and a few more cups. I think it also worth reminding ourselves that we have been the beneficiaries of some major chunks of luck , lasagna gate being one and the West Brom keepers howler another.

  54. BADARSE

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:50 #58320

    Bard, that is a real request-a team with grit and determination. We are all locked into that, I am sure. Though a six out of ten player, with a heart as big as a football is more lauded than a skilful, prima donna who appears to hide when the going gets tough. In truth they don't always reach a level to equal a seemingly disinterested artist, let alone eclipse them. If only there was a mould to stamp out another Bergkamp, or Vieira-they had both qualities, didn't they? Sadly the way the world has gone means contracts, with bank balances in mind, are the main things top footballers fight for with grit and determination. A new player often sustains a level of form for a while, then drifts off the pace, that is quite natural, a case of human nature. It is true that it becomes the manager's job to reignite the flame of a player, to motivate, to instil a hunger that may have been sated. Perhaps AW cannot motivate as well as another could, but it is all guesswork I am afraid. Born from respect, it can quickly evaporate, as it did with Moyes. The key factor in my opinion is a missing Keown-figure in the dressing room. You cannot just manufacture them. We have Flamini who brings a certain flavour to the role of leadership, as does BFG and Mikael, but we are crying out for that real dominant character.

  55. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:43 #58319

    Jean, good sense of humour, best place for him but he'd probably only burn it.

  56. Rocky RIP

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:41 #58318

    @Bard - 'The question is could someone else put those resources we have to better use'. If we are talking about the here and now and moving forward, then that's a fair point. And one for which it's increasingly hard to defend Wenger. I was referring to the post 2004 and stadium move period where we failed to capitalise on our domination.

  57. Bard

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:37 #58317

    Baddie, Its disingenuous to use Newcastle as an example. What about Chelsea. I think they have had something like 9 managerial changes and have won 10 trophies including the CL. I hate the Chavs but I do love their culture. Failure is not tolerated by the owner, thats why they beat us every season. And please dont give me that bull about we do things better than they do, its a fiction. It might have been true many years ago but not now. My view is that the pro Wenger group are frightened of change more than they think Wenger is the answer. They somehow seem to believe that his leaving will be catastrophic and that we will nosedive into obscurity. It might take a while to change the culture of mediocrity but Im sure there are plenty of managers out there well able to produce better teams than Wenger has put out recently.

  58. Guy in Jersey

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:36 #58316

    Bloody hell BADARSE, I actually enjoyed one of your posts. I will continue to disagree with you, and Rocky RIP, but I respect the measured and considered way you responded - and I too would wish for less abuse and vitriol on this site. And while I still believe it's time for Wenger to go, I'm not going to denigrate what he achieved at his peak. Finally, and I forgot who made the point (and can't be bothered to go back and look), but whoever describes those with an opposing view as "spineless", all I'd say is that most of the people on here are the opposite - at least they have the balls to voice an opinion, and to try and justify it, rather than just belittling dissenting voices and telling them all to piss off down the L....

  59. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:28 #58315

    chris dee, it's called pet projects and ego.

  60. Rocky RIP

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:27 #58314

    @Jjetplane - if you can't be bothered to name 20, one will suffice. I'm not saying there isn't one, but I'm just keen to hear who you fancy putting forward. (It needs to be plausible. Saying Whisky nose Ferguson isn't plausible.)

  61. Bard

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:24 #58313

    Rocky RIP, good post and a worthwhile reminder. No one saying he wasnt a good manager and has done great things for the club in the past. You aks a rather pointless question because I could write 4 names who might have done what Wenger has and maybe more but it couldnt be proved one way or another so its irrelevant. Obviously we dont have the resources of the big two although our wage bill is now bigger than Chelseas. The question is could someone else put those resources we have to better use. We have spent a fair amount in the last 2 seasons and I dont see the side improving very much in fact we seem to have gone backwards if last seasons spankings are anything to go by. At the very minimum he needs to produce a side with grit and determination, I dont see much of either in this side.

  62. BADARSE

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:17 #58312

    Thanks for the article Mark. I think it's very succinct and is a clear way for muddled 'Arsene Out' fans to read, understand, and to repeat. It is coherent and worthwhile. If the people complaining of inactivity in the, 'change the manager' department could voice their views in this way it would be a far less fraught website. However I think your conclusion is wrong, despite being well put. I think you have glossed over some aspects, inflated the points which support your case and reduced those which don't, we all can fall into that trap. I have a little sympathy for the older Gooner who works with you, the Sour could just be displaying a vested interest. If the record of 'top four' consistently, and a Cup win isn't enough, then what is? I know we all crave total football domination, but realise it is a fleeting phase, otherwise that would become a jaded and boring aspect of Arsenal life. The magical team of the 30's passed into history, as did the team after the war. It was a long time coming but Mee's Double team arrived and so quickly drifted away too. GG came and went, then the great Arsene sides, including the Invincibles. All things pass. If we replace AW, and we shall, quite soon I believe, but he may see out his tenure of course, and that has to be a good bet. When that day dawns a new man will arrive in the hot seat, and it will be very hot, trust me. What do the people who harbour 'Wenger Out' mentalities do, if the man cannot cut it? Start griping and insisting on change? That is the most frightening aspect for me personally, that mob rule should triumph in any way, if it is accepted as the way to go there is no retreat from that position. Someone mentioned Newcastle in a post, it's a valid call. They have been compromised and there is no way back. Poor run of form, manager out. New guy in, poor run of form, and just repeat the prescription.

  63. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:16 #58311

    Oh dearie me Westie, the case has been listed - The Dark Moanies v Wenger. The advocates presenting the case for the moanies are here now.Real academics. Legal big hitters. Enter Maguiresbridge QC. 18 years admitted to the Bar. No cases ever won. Bewigged and striped trousers, though baggy around his arse, black shoes, unshined though, chicken droppings all over them. Hes supported by Junior Counsel, Hiccup. 3 months admitted to the Bar. No cases ever won. Get your togs on Westie. Ring up Amos for your Junior. The case wont last long. 10 mins for the judge to laugh at it and throw it out. You ll probably only have to speak to get an order for your costs against the losers. Ooh dear, the Judge is reading their statements, hes laughing already, he s taken a swig of water though hes dribbling in his mirth, hes doing his best to curb his hilarity as he looks over his specs at Maguiresbridge whos clearing his throat. Step up Westie!

  64. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:16 #58310

    AMG, good post, but there's still a few yet mate they're still waiting.

  65. jjetplane

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:15 #58309

    I dunno HICCUP irony - bloody wasted on this lot. ROCKY I could give you a list of at 20 managers but I can't be bothered. Sorry that I don't go along with your main point because I cannot see any great difference Wenger has made to this club. Fortunate to have a great defence and to his credit some good buys when French was all the rage. Party now over for 10 years and counting and not going for a title is just a lack of ambition. Citeh are possibly going to nosedive (!) we hope and why are we not gearing up to face off Chelsea right now. The fear has become institutionalised under OGL and Arsenal are surely big enough and rich enough to start doing 'what the tin says'. ROCKY was a God.

  66. Hiccup

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:07 #58308

    Pete, what an awful thing to say. You know we're sensitive little things. I would say we're fighting like the French Resistance, looking to be liberated. As for the AKB's, you'd be treat as front line fodder as you've had great practice over the last 3 days. Oh, but if I remember, it was the AKB's that downed tools and skulked off in unison.

  67. Rocky RIP

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:01 #58307

    @ ZB20H "But the expected dominance failed to materialise and to this day, nobody outside the Marble Halls really knows why." - 'Let me give you a clue mate, big concrete thing shaped like a bowl' - well said, sir. Anyone with a decent sense of perspective will take a step back and see there was The Highbury version of Wenger. We all loved that one. Then came the stadium move and the Emirates version of Wenger. Brand new 60,000 stadiums don't pay for themselves. A new strategy was adopted, which in hindsight nobody enjoyed one bit as it only served to steady the ship through choppy waters. Great financially, but there was little in it for us fans.(Coupled with Abramovich and Man City's newly found billions and the whole landscape changed for us.) This isn't to excuse not spending the funds we now have in the bank, but any understanding of how our fortunes changed from being the dominant force, along with Man Utd, simply has to acknowledge these massive factors. As for a return to the Highbury version of Wenger, I cannot offer a plausible reason as to why I think it will happen. Is it really any surprise that the dominant two at the moment are the two with the biggest resources? Really? Is it not painfully predictable these days? Yes, we have strong resources now, but 3rd/4th in the league is surely par for where we are financially. Are we not allowed to mention any of this any more? Reasons shouldn't be confused with excuses. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more ambition from the club and share the frustration at Wenger every transfer window, especially when fans feel unnecessarily rinsed with 3% price rises, but the reasons I've mentioned cannot get dismissed or completely ignored when looking at our recent history and failure to dominate. I'll reverse the question by asking what other manager could have steered us through a potentially turbulent course that comes with a stadium relocation and deliver champions league football every season, making steady profits throughout financially challenging times? (Please don't shout me down for this, as I know the frustrations that come with focusing purely on top 4 and steady profits. Repeatedly qualifying for a competition we don't look like ever seriously competing for can seriously hurt a fan's head. I'm merely posing a question.)

  68. nlrwam

    Oct 01, 2014, 18:01 #58306

    chris dee, it's called pet project and ego mate.

  69. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 17:45 #58305

    Mark, excellent article and thank you for reminding us of the embarrassments and humiliations even though some would rather they were air brushed out of history and probably thought they were. And also thanks for reminding us of our favourite carry on film, Carry on Regardless starring OGL (the cover photo perfect for the DVD) and his fans. The reason for our decline is known is as plane as day and can be seen, and he should have been celebrating his sixth or seventh year in charge of a ligue 1 club today (although I doubt they would have put up with the humiliations and all that went with them like we have done) instead of his eighteenth with us hanging around like a bad smell in his Carry on Regardless roll of standing still and going backwards. Again Good Article.

  70. jjetplane

    Oct 01, 2014, 17:39 #58304

    There is no better read than Edward Said's Orientalism in times of cultural confusion. It seeks to deconstruct the mythology applied by the west to secure a domination over the east for a biblically driven logocentricity. Saying that should be an interesting encounter tonight wherein the parlance of the modern Emirates (ironic seepage) will house a game of Thrones variety of the Crusading Saga in which one set of infidels will be put to the sword but as in most of these encounters it will cease with a whimper accompanied 'by some of the finest anglo-turkish cuisine this side of the Bosphorous.' HICCUP like yourself it is a difficult time for our wider families when such insults are traded with no thought of the children. As the old song goes: '... and do they smell/like ****ing hell/over there ....' The Dark Moonies wish peace throughout the universe and a nice executive position for OGL - preferably at PSG if they will have him. Sort of filling in for lost souls here. Yak Yak!

  71. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 17:35 #58303

    The thing is Westie , our record of 17 top 4s is easily reduced in its recognition. Its like anything else in life in that if people denigrate anything, any idea, concept or achievement for long and often enough, it becomes of little perceived value and is then of so little stock to be worthless. It becomes taken for granted once its novelty wears away. Wengers critics have been doing it for years, like dripping taps. They now no longer see it for what it is, a phenomenal record, but as its there each Season, to them its worthless. Airbrush it away, its nothing, its old hat, its boring. They have to do this because its there and they know that their case to remove Wenger (such as it is 'a case' - if they took it to Court a Judge would dismiss it and throw it out summarily)is defeated before it starts. Some pay lip service to the record (they begrudgingly acknowledge and mention it, though it sticks in their craw to do so) so as not to look totally idiotic, but most have dismissed it in the same way a new toy is dropped aside by a 3 year old the moment another new toy is presented. They want a bigger toy now, no matter what it costs, one with better colours and more hi tec gadgets and they want it NOW. They're bored with the old one, its useless! - stamped feet, punching the walls, running to their bedrooms screaming. Look at Hiccup now 61599, charging up the stairs,toys thrown and broken, his nappies round his knees, nose running, still full of egg he stuffed up it earlier, shouting and shrieking blue murder. Heaven help him when his Mommy catches up with him!

  72. Pete

    Oct 01, 2014, 17:12 #58302

    The wobs are the sort of dudes who in war time would just give up say we can't win and not bother with the fight,like they are with the chav game on Saturday.Or if a bunch of Gala fans were outnumbering and after them they would be on their heels instead of putting them on their arses.

  73. Hiccup

    Oct 01, 2014, 17:12 #58301

    Not another 'Wenger out' article! Surely the Online Gooner can find someone out there that can string at least two sentences together highlighting a reason why we should continue with Wenger? Where's that Simon Rose geezer? Mind you, even he'd pretty much admitted Wenger was a lost cause last time he wrote. I'm trying to keep my bad temper under control but articles like this just wind me up and set me off on one! I can feel my eyes starting to bulge out of their sockets, so I'm out of here before I upset anyone...

  74. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 17:07 #58300

    Gervinho had a few little moments v City. Lets not go over board about him. He was never a PL footballer. Still like a ship without a rudder most of the game. Roma were good though i have to say. A little more bravery and City were there to be taken. Totti still a top fella. Always liked him and his loyalty to Roma pust most of these modern day over paid, primma donna types to shame.

  75. DJ

    Oct 01, 2014, 16:54 #58298

    Westie: I thought the objective was to finish in the top one! It’s alright for promoted teams to set objectives of finishing 17th for a successful season, others top ten, Europa League for Everton’s of this world but we should be challenging for the title. While you are right it is a tremendous achievement and shouldn’t be knocked if 4th place is the height of the clubs ambition perhaps we should be told at the beginning of the season and whisper it quietly perhaps ticket prices should be lowered a little? Anyway enjoy the match tonight.

  76. Lee afc

    Oct 01, 2014, 16:52 #58297

    Hi badarse, the "online gooner nursing home post" this morning was brilliant...read it three or so times and chuckled louder each time. within the disarray and carnage of this site, your humour blows the negative lot into smithereens. Thanks for that baddie. A couple of beers and its a big UN tonight...sing up at the back.

  77. David

    Oct 01, 2014, 16:52 #58296

    @Westlower - To say we've been 'spoiled' by AW is only partially true. Firstly, before AW, Arsenal under GG had massive expectations of being the next Liverpool. Which didn't work out. AW came because David Dein had as good an eye for potential as AW used to have himself. In other words, it was not just AW that made Arsenal successful, but an ambitious board/MD. It is the owners who decide the vision for the club. That is the reason why Chelsea have won 10 trophies and Arsenal nothing over the past 10 years. Certainly wouldn't want the volatility of Stamford Bridge, but it's better than the USA/Russian cold war that has paralyzed the AFC board for the last 6 years or so. What most people probably feel (those who want AW out) is frustration at the lack of progress since moving to Ashburton Grove. What was the point in moving if the club is just standing still?

  78. jjetplane

    Oct 01, 2014, 16:48 #58295

    JAMIE are you telling me you cannot appreciate a player outside of Arsenal. What a narrow minded approach to football. Saw that Messi goal from yesterday and that was a joy to see. When it comes to threading balls through a defence there are very few who can execute over a career. Problem there is the Chavs are picking up that habit this season though I do not expect us to be put up against the wall two seasons in a row. I am enjoying watching Costa as I am also interested in developments at Southampton as well as watching county league football on a regular basis. I hope BADDIE is not also going to desert you in the way OGL has deserted his football obligations over the past decade. CORNISH you are now on the radar of AKB central - expect a Diaby Driven Drone (DDD) over Cornish skies tonight. GBP Still smarting from standing on the north bank when the mancs hit us for 6 and probably WESTIE was sitting amongst them in westlower. Got a funny memory of escaping the clutches of 50 Middlesborough supporters after we whacked them up there. Mind you - first time I ever shat a brick was watching West ham destroy Finsbury Park possibly 1970 ... Oh what fun geezer.j

  79. DJ

    Oct 01, 2014, 16:21 #58293

    Jamie: I hope you’re right regarding Costa. I refuse to put Chelsea and Spurs players in my fantasy team out of principle and that B******d is killing me!

  80. Bard

    Oct 01, 2014, 16:08 #58292

    ZB20H, I take your point I can see the argument.. But points gained doesnt do it for me as it ignores all the other factors. From where I sit the team look worse than last year at present. If they end up 6th with more points than last year thats failure. I prefer this question are Arsenal really giving it a go and the answer this season and many before is no. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Westie youve really got les Tossers on the brain. If youre not careful youll fall out with Baddie who is very anti insults and abuse. At heart it implies one is unsuccessful with women. In my case thats true but you can get job lots of blow ups, so i would say the practice is redundant these days. These days a more accurate term of abuse is I bet your pump doesnt work. Rock on Galatasary

  81. JAMIE

    Oct 01, 2014, 16:02 #58291

    Costa's just going through a purple patch, soon he'll be back to his usual form when Chelsea play the better teams,remind me of his international goals tally.I wish you dark moanies spent as much time praising the gunners as you do whatever team or player is currently flavour of the month.You used to tell us we had to judge ourselves by Manure as they are the biggest other team so I am and we're doing ok. Mark Halfpenny and his pals are all six pence short of a shilling.

  82. Westlower

    Oct 01, 2014, 15:58 #58290

    @Red Member, Clutching at straws? What is there to defend for a man who has a 100% record in finishing top 4 over 17 year period compared to 11.7% in Arsenal's history 1953-70. I agree that Gervinho did play well against Man City but his demise at AFC was compounded by the Dark Moanies getting on his back, undermining the guys confidence. Beware the bad influence of Dark Moanies! Good win for the U19's beating Galatasary 5-1. Great individual goal by Gedion Zelalem dribbling past 3 three players before scoring.

  83. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 15:50 #58289

    Bad matches? The best for me JJ. a 5-0 walloping at Stoke. 70?71 time? The rucks that day were good till the dogs arrived. The retreat to the railway station was torture though!! Nothing too much 'corporate' around in them days was there apart from the brand names on the boots braces and grandad shirts!

  84. DJ

    Oct 01, 2014, 15:48 #58288

    Looking forward to tonight, due to injuries reckon we might see two pacey widemen (Ox and Sanchez) with Ozil in his favoured number 10 role.

  85. A Cornish Gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 15:03 #58287

    Westie. I thought you and BADARSE were the original 'Les Miserables'.

  86. Westlower

    Oct 01, 2014, 14:55 #58286

    @Cornish, Thanks for the correction. I should have realised that Miserable Les was a Dark Moanie?

  87. jjetplane

    Oct 01, 2014, 14:51 #58285

    'Becoming aware' of Arsenal and being Arsenal are two different matters. I was at the Lane too and the Fairs Cup and ended up on the pitch at both. Some of my strongest memories are often about us having a bad match or two and there are no golden good old days so why you employ that bleat of an argument for Wenger's first half dozen all sounds a bit of a cherry pick. The 'bloke is done' and was a while ago and no one is individual is bigger than the institution that is Arsenal. On your bike. You're not one of us anymore. Anyway - about that bleeding Costa bloke. Never thought I would see a forward like that again. See the work ethic - remember what a coaching environment he has come from. Fabregas also understands that and perhaps his time at Wengertower put his career back a bit. He has made up for it and as as been mentioned on here numerous times, funny how some players really mature once they are out of OGL's virtual clutches. Very happy to see Citeh are in a bucket of **** so interesting to see how that opera goes for the rest of the season. Again this should give YGL massive incentive to push on and start by gaining a respectable draw next sunday. If he fails he should walk on monday and let Bouldie take us through the new appointment. Once he has Wenger 'out of his hair' yak yak he may starting putting the boot in on some of the smug little faces. You have to earn a smug look in this world. Let's have it - more numbers! You kill me WESTIE!

  88. A Cornish Gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 14:34 #58284

    Westie. I think that should be Mr & Mrs Tossers' son LES.

  89. Westlower

    Oct 01, 2014, 14:22 #58283

    Wenger's main failing is raising the expectations of Arsenal supporters. I first became aware of AFC in 1953/54. In the following 17 years we only managed a top 4 placing on two occasions, 58/59 (3rd) & 68/69 (4th). We finally won the league in 70/71 & thankfully I was at the Lane to witness it. Our league placings from 53/54 were as follows: 12, 9, 5, 5, 12, 3, 13, 11, 10, 7, 8, 13, 14, 7, 9, 4, 12. Don't tell me about the 'good old days' because during this period in our history there wasn't any! 'Le Tossers' have been well and truly spoiled in the Wenger years.

  90. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 14:12 #58282

    jj - Ha. Peace right back at you matey. Raddie ? Ohh. if only there a few still like him around.

  91. ZB20H

    Oct 01, 2014, 14:10 #58281

    Bard: "We're a slowly improving team ? Not from where I sit mate." - Do you have a better indication of progress than the points total at the end of the season? As for, "Even if we are the other teams are getting better quicker" - I am not sure about that, if you look at the distance that we finished by the eventual champions that is improving as well, 11-12 - 19 points, 12-13 - 16 points, 13-14 - 7 points. Slowish progress for sure but progress nonetheless.

  92. jjetplane

    Oct 01, 2014, 13:52 #58280

    GBP not too happy about the aspirins as I thought you were selling us valium. This is the problem with AKB control central. No one edits the golden nuggets coming out and puts us 'bollocks of a herd' in a right sweat. So you reckon Radford was secretly a Chav? Cannot make this up - sorry! Enjoy the match tonight but remember 'nothing acts faster than aspirine' so take nothing. ps quite enjoy the modern world and it's many delights though it is a shame that both you and YGL appear to find it difficult to keep up with the more refined aspects. You and WESTIE should have a word with BADDiE - he might give you some counting/breathing exercise. Peace bro.

  93. Bard

    Oct 01, 2014, 13:47 #58279

    Spaced; are you on something, what does 'progress in the cabinet' mean ? Do you mean we won the FAC and that is progress or does it mean we won the FAC and progress is being made on the field. Forget cups half full or empty mate but it reads like you've been imbibing more than a few cups. Do you think we can win the PL and if you do please tell me how ?

  94. cyril

    Oct 01, 2014, 13:40 #58278

    addendum: If the board are reading, for future reference you can purchase the 'chairlifts' cheepie style on the ads pages in the freebie mags, usually next the 'cocktrousers' for sale. Keep it simple! COYG

  95. Spaced

    Oct 01, 2014, 13:39 #58277

    Here we are, barely a few months from winning the FA cup and we have another person wanting Wenger out, now!... Why are so many of our 'supporters' so fickle? . What can be done to placate the unpleasables? Maybe I am a glass half-full type, but I see the fact that progress is actually there in the cabinet as a positive. Mark Halfempty, will your glass ever be half full? Your views suggests never. And pity the manager who follows our most successful one.

  96. cyril

    Oct 01, 2014, 13:30 #58276

    Get him upstairs before we have to install a 'chairlift' for the man! Bottom line, he has the most experience of any manager in the Prem so we cannot lose this. I have wanted fresh impetus for years, but if he left I would be 'balling'. Can't explain it ...

  97. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 13:22 #58275

    Gary Player when once asked by a fan how he seemed to be so consistently good on the greens said that it was a strange one to answer and yet having pondered it, the more he practised, the luckier he seemed to get! Every team that ever won anything or reached any milestone of note has had your 'luck'. Its as vital as having good players. The only boll--s is your post save only for the weak league point.

  98. Mark Halfpenny

    Oct 01, 2014, 13:20 #58274

    JAMIE - thanks for the insult. And thanks for proving me right . . . . .

  99. Bard

    Oct 01, 2014, 13:18 #58273

    Jamie; Im always a great fan of your insightful posts but can you explain what 'a twist here and a twist there' ; 'wob jelly brains' etc means. Is it a complex tactical system that Ive missed, a system so complex that only a few truly understand how it works. If it is can you enlighten me or does it just mean 'f*** off down the Lane ?

  100. TJ

    Oct 01, 2014, 13:12 #58272

    This BS about qualifying for the top four consistently has to stop. Firstly, the League has been really weak for the last few years, with most of the teams getting smashed by foreign clubs in the Champions League. Secondly, it's been luck the last three seasons that we have even qualified- last year we were lucky Moyes took over at United given Liverpool's title challenge. Before we were lucky AVB overplayed Spurs in the Europa League, with Gareth Bale in the team! The year before that, we were lucky AVB had Chelsea playing open football with no strikers and Harry Redknapp wanted the England job which made Spurs' form plummet. We're now outspending Chelsea and yet they have a more complete first XI and better squad. Sadly, the board and owner won't realise how much of a liability Wenger is until we drop out of the top four, which will only be avoided by luck, and thereafter it may be too late to get back in.

  101. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 13:09 #58271

    JJ - Costa scoring for fun? Had the 3 chances he missed last night have been Giroud or Wellbeck, its a banker you and the aspirin crew would be on here slating him to high heaven as being a carthorse, a donkey or a dead wood candidate! Its mildly amusing how some of you apply one set of standards to non Arsenal players and a different set to ours (see Jamies post below - yours is of that ilk). By the way, Raddie, knew how to miss big time too! Liverpool, Everton and Chelsea, even West Ham have all or are presently moving into the 'corporate' footie World that you so hate as we speak. Its the society in which we live, its not Arsenals invention. For Petes sake, open your eyes. Arsenal and Wenger didnt contrive to produce modern football.

  102. kilkenny cat

    Oct 01, 2014, 13:07 #58270

    Wanted him gone since 09,but have long since given up on him going,while he is making Kronke and his clan money. At the weekend i was at Croke Park watching Kilkenny win another all Ireland. Not many people on here would have heard of Brian Cody. He is a proper manager,tactically never afraid to change,not afraid to drop anyone,motivates,trains the team properly. He is everything ogl is not.We are stuck with him,as there is no one with enough knowledge to sack him. Im starting to fear the worst for the next 3 years at least.

  103. JAMIE

    Oct 01, 2014, 12:58 #58269

    Mark Half-Goon.The usual hot air buffoonery I would expect from a Moanie.Made up facts a little twisting here and a little twisting there.Enhance the negatives say it enough and the wob jelly brains will lap it up.Ignore all the positives just speak a load of half truths and guff and watch the glory hunters go into another trance and start howling at the moon and beating their chests to the rhythm of the AMG beat.

  104. jjetplane

    Oct 01, 2014, 12:52 #58268

    Wonderfully written piece by a promising writer. Not a thought wrong there and your balanced compassion re football is what we need to hear more often on here. The only haters on here are in a class of a half dozen and they sadly remind me of their leader - a man who by chance was gifted with Adams and DB10 and got in first on the French second wave which resulted in some wonderful football. Bobby Pires really is my all time favourite Arsenal player. After Bob's injury the first cracks began to appear. Though they kicked and puffed through an unbeaten season where the soldiers in the team did all the work you see could already see Wenger's underlying petulance/arrogance simmering away. His football philosophy has been overrated as in the sense no one really knows what it is but simply say/said it is 'played with beauty and freedom' and other such phrases. I saw many teams come to London (Wembley/Highbury) and outpass Arsenal to oblivion. Wenger has never mastered for himself that 'beauty needs a beast' and consequently has never been able to live with the best in Europe. The Emirates project has masked the fundamental flaws in the Arsenal set-up by breeding a new fan base who have been duped into a spectacle similar to the cinema blockbuster season in America. The corporate identity is now ****ded in modern life and the Emirate experience is part of that new, corporate religion. Financial success is the end and be all but real Arsenal fans know this is a blinkered, limited outlook. Watching Costa stick goals away for fun (bit like Radford!) shows there are ways to spend money wisely and to top it he gets a lovely supply from the likes of Fabregas (remember him). Can we bury the myth about signing him back. Clause or no clause theat lad would never have played for Wenger again. He is way too ambitious in the football sense. Anyway - got a day off and time for some brunch. Do I not like Turkish food! Great to see the concern and compassion shown on here for a great club. As someone has said - look no further than Southampton to see how you can do it on the pitch and with the fan base. Koeman is not this month's flavour for the 'dark moonies' (such a juvenile term) but more a model of coach we have needed for over a decade. We would have surely won more.

  105. Tony Evans

    Oct 01, 2014, 12:45 #58267

    Mark - I agree with all you have said and have long since ceased to understand what goes on inside Wenger's head when it comes to defence, transfers and tactics. Some of the decisions he makes defy logic and yet we maintain a top four position. There is the conundrum - under Wenger we are good enough to beat most teams, but all the recent evidence confirms we will never be good enough against the best. I can't see that changing any time soon and another stuffing from Chelsea is on the cards this weekend. I am fed up with it and a bit more of the old 1-0 to the Arsenal would suit me down to the ground right now.

  106. Bard

    Oct 01, 2014, 12:41 #58266

    ZB20H; We're a slowly improving team ? Not from where I sit mate. Even if we are the other teams are getting better quicker. Westie, always love your posts. you are truly the king of the 'if onlys'. You have all the deluded optimism of the black knight in the Monty Python sketch. If only my Dad had been a multi millionaire I wouldn't have to work my arse off. AMG; I agree wholeheartedly and wrote something similar back then. I support a regime change but I want him to go with dignity. He won't ever win anything but the FAC or Carling cup and I would hate him to be hounded out or have to resign. Despite all the venom spewed by his supporters against anyone who wants change, most appreciate what he's done for the club but it is time to move on.

  107. Red Member

    Oct 01, 2014, 12:18 #58264

    Westlower - another admirable defence of Wenger but you increasingly resemble someone who is clutching at straws. The injury problems have existed at the club for some time and I don't see things changing despite these new measures that you mention. Wenger you see plays players until they break because he doesnt have any other option and the cycle keeps repeating itself. I can't comment on Carvalho because I was watching Gervinho play rather well for Roma. Amazing how all these players we currently sell do so well at other clubs...

  108. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 12:14 #58263

    AMG - There's truth in that i.e. the when not if issue. The biggest teat for those want to see the back of Wenger will come when the new man is in his seat. Arsenal aren't going to change their manner of investing in the team. Its the same now as its been all of the Clubs post war years. There will be no 'here you are Van Gaal' open cheque books tendered. The new man will be fan fared no doubt with renewed fortitude and vigour by those who cant wait to celebrate change. The new incumbent will need to be made of steel to fend off his would be detractors (judging by the majority posts on here) unless he can create an early miracle. He ll be granted no honeymoon im pretty sure. Chelsea, City and Utd aren't going away anywhere to accommodate him either. Its a given we are going to see change, maybe sooner than we think but probably in the next 2 year period I'm judging. Will we suddenly be catapulted to the top again? Not a chance. Can the Wenger out brigade live with this? I seriously doubt it. Westie - well said. Guy in Jersey - No, a mindless herd is a bunch of largely unthinking beings who each follow the other, both in mind and body motion. There s rarely a 'leader'. The collective rules them and none ever challenges another, even if they wanted to for fear of being cast out from the herd. Sadly, its exhibited on here each day amongst those who castigate the Club and Wenger isnt it.

  109. Jean

    Oct 01, 2014, 11:54 #58261

    I personally for one am tired of the way the team plays, I don't look forward to weekends and that has affected a huge part of my life no thanks to wenger, the man is become a failure and a stubborn one, living on past glory and would not improve anything about the team. Let him be sacked or let the board get someone with the experience to do our shopping and leave wenger to the "cooking".

  110. DINO

    Oct 01, 2014, 11:35 #58260

    great great article man.we can only dream about title and champions league.as long as wenger is the manager i dont see improvement.every top team has 4 CB,we only have 2.BFG and KOS cannot handle the whole season.

  111. Guy in Jersey

    Oct 01, 2014, 11:33 #58259

    It's quite pleasing to see that no-one has yet resorted to argument number 6 or dished out any uncalled-for personal abuse. Mind you, I always thought the definition of a "mindless herd" was an unquestioning crowd who blindly followed a leader and would never think to question the status quo...

  112. Westlower

    Oct 01, 2014, 11:28 #58258

    Mark, for someone who professes to have followed the Wenger in or out debate for many years, how have you cobbled together such a boring & mind numbing piece going over the same old ground? I'm sure like me, you know the opinion of every regular poster on this site. Should we lose to CFC on Sunday, I could write in advance, word for word, what each contributor will say. Maguiresbridge will echo the most negative comment which will probably be posted by chav supporter Marcus. Some of us accept that Wenger will stay for the duration of his 3 year contract unless the board decide to replace him or he decides to retire. Thankfully we are not Newcastle United or West Ham and don't make complete arse's of ourselves with our public 'get rid of the manager' demands. Once a supporter has crossed that dubious line there is no way back! No one likes to think their judgement is wrong, so they continue to find reasons to back up their own conclusions. Figures revealed in today's papers partly explain the handicap AFC have been under in recent seasons due to the abnormal amount of injuries suffered. Last season AFC were without first team players for longer than any other club, at a combined 1,716 days. By contrast CFC were without key players for 556 days. That is a significant difference. Changes are afoot to rectify the situation, including a multi-million spend to upgrade the training facilities. It won't help this season though as we already missing so many key players. Contrary to some views on this website we are missing Giroud big time and would certainly have beaten the Sours with him in the side. Finally I look forward to our new manager when the appointment is made, Ronald Koeman looks an Arsenal type to me. In the meantime I'm happy to stick with a guy who's won 57.8% of his games in charge of AFC, no other Arsenal manager has come close. Games played 1021, won 590, drawn 230, lost 201. Anyone else think William Carvalho looked well overpriced at £37m last night v CFC?

  113. ZB20H

    Oct 01, 2014, 11:28 #58257

    "please put forward their reasons why they believe that Arsene Wenger will bring successful football back to Arsenal?" - 10/11 – 68 points, 11/12 – 70, 12/13 – 73, 13/14 – 79 + FA Cup. We are a slowly improving team and we definitely have the tools to improve again.

  114. AMG

    Oct 01, 2014, 11:20 #58256

    I don't think I've heard any pro Wengerites saying that he can bring about success again. I think we're all in the same camp now of seeing that Wenger is past it and does not have the ability required to turn this ship around. I think the difference of opinions lies in when he should go. Some believe he's earned an interminable stay of execution, where others believe he should have been unceremoniously kicked out years ago. I personally believe he should have retired after last year's FA cup win with his head held high. While this is a good article, I wouldn't expect any responses to your direct question, as I don't think there are any Arsenal fans left who think he will take this club back to the top of the table.

  115. ZB20H

    Oct 01, 2014, 11:18 #58255

    "But the expected dominance failed to materialise and to this day, nobody outside the Marble Halls really knows why." - Let me give you a clue mate, big concrete thing shaped like a bowl.

  116. Face The Facts

    Oct 01, 2014, 11:15 #58254

    ..and yet, as bad as you say he is, as pathetic as his training methods apparently are, as tactically inept as he is made out to be, he has managed to be lead our team to the CL year after year, and last seasons FA Cup. Would you rather have the tactically brilliant Brendan Rodgers who has won ... what? David Moyes, anyone?

  117. hydee sam

    Oct 01, 2014, 11:03 #58253

    I think you are very right,mr arsene wenger has long past his prime.I could remember vividly all through the period david dein was wiith us,things are not like dis. But since transfer buz enter into wenger's hand,everything scattered. We can no longer compete in the transfer market with totenham not to talk of chevski. Come to nigeria where I hail from,we dnt have a say wherre chelsea fans are talking.lmaging mr arsene can't provide a team that will beat mourinho just for once since 2005. Shame.you can lmagine last season we could not beat any of our bitter rival,I hope that will change this time around.its time for a change. Arsene out for young and vibrant manager.

  118. Roy

    Oct 01, 2014, 10:44 #58252

    I, like many others I suspect, were desperate to see Wenger come out of the other side of the stadium move and be successful again. It hasn't happened and a fair proportion of it has been self inflicted by the man in question. The point when I realised he should probably go were the Blackburn and Bradford cup exits. Despite the relief of ending the trophy drought, I've seen absolutely no evidence since - either tactically or otherwise - to change that point of view. I find it very sad that he's lost his magic hat, but also like many others, am resigned to waiting until his tenure reaches its natural conclusion. I still think Wenger deserves respect, but the time to move upstairs as it were now looks overdue and the reasons it hasn't happened thus far have been well documented. As I say, all very sad.

  119. Unchives

    Oct 01, 2014, 10:36 #58251

    Good article in that you have covered the main points, however, taking each one in turn; 1)Look at my answer below. 2)The new sponsors have only just come on board. 3)FFP has also just reached its first faze of sanctions. 4)We need to qualify for the Champions league to attract new players and support the existing wage bill of £167 million. Whether we can win the competition or not is irrelevant. 5)Who would you bring in as a replacement manager that was or is available?....Van Gaal.....watch this space! 6)Regarding supporting other teams that are wealthy,we have three options of x2 wealthy owners & self-sufficient, we are way ahead of all the competition and I would rather win the league with no artificial inducements. You can buy trophies, you cant buy history. Answer your own questions first before you pose them to others.

  120. N4

    Oct 01, 2014, 10:31 #58250

    Fantastic article. The problem with pro-Wengers is that they support Arsène FC. They just can't bring themselves to the fact when a product comes to it's expiry date. It becomes sentimental and that's the problem...like being in love really! I suppose the WOBs manage to bring themselves to the point where they can say that's it let's break up Arsène FC...it's Arsenal FC that I love more now!

  121. Red Member

    Oct 01, 2014, 10:29 #58249

    surely one of the main reasons that he should go is that he has split the fanbase.

  122. Bard

    Oct 01, 2014, 10:21 #58248

    Well done Mark, you're a brave man. You'll get dogs abuse for stating the obvious and you certainly won't get a coherent pro Wenger post. You make the excellent point that none of the fans hate Wenger they just feel he had passed his sell by date. I feel we desperately need a change. The argument that there is no one remotely capable of taking over at Arsenal is rubbish.

  123. GBP

    Oct 01, 2014, 10:20 #58247

    If enough mud is thrown at a wall some of it will stick as this piece shows. Its not rocket science though to soothe your turmoil. You just need to find an available coach who g'tees you a top 4 placing each season.This 'any half decent manager' beating Wenger's teams is a new one.In 10 years hes lost 91 league games out of 348 played and only Utd and Chelsea have better 10 year records. You ll have to let us know who all these half decent managers are who beat us so often? 'Losing mentality'? Top 4 and FAC Winners 2014? How so? 18 Years of management and top 4 in each year plus the record that you've mentioned. That's your answer chap. Its not for those who properly support the Club and with Wenger remaining as our Coach to persuade you that he should go, its the other way around. Like many of your ilk, you've no case to raise, little of note to back your dubious argument so you resort to a reversal of the burden of proof. Not very cleaver is it and i doubt many will fall for it? Wenger has the facts to back up his position, you have bluster and the means to lob hopeful punts like this article at him via sites like this one. Try finding a 'persuasive and coherent' argument to remove him yourself and then sensible fans will listen im sure. Until then, carry on banging your head against the self imposed wall you've created for yourself and follow the mindless herd who think as you do, without a shred of rational argument in support.Id have thought you've got better things to do, but each to their own.

  124. chris dee

    Oct 01, 2014, 10:08 #58246

    I don't know how or why it happened.But somewhere along the way Arsene decided that a great defence with a great keeper a la Adams etc or Campbell etc backed up by a dogged and clever defensive midfielder like Petit or Gilberto went down the Swanee.He also used to keep it very tight away to our rivals but now we are just an open invitation to get screwed like Chelsea last year.It will be the same this weekend. I love the guy,but do I think he will win us the Prem again or heaven forbid the Champions League?No a prayer.

  125. BertieMee

    Oct 01, 2014, 10:06 #58245

    A well reasoned argument in which I can find nothing to contradict.

  126. Red Member

    Oct 01, 2014, 10:04 #58244

    I realised in 2012 that Wenger should go. Lots of people realised before then and I applaud them for that. Those who still believe in Wenger I just feel sorry for now

  127. Bored Gooner

    Oct 01, 2014, 10:03 #58243

    Another couple of points to add, Wenger's lack of rotation causing injuries to important players at important time. Wilshere and Ramsey could have been rested against lesser teams to include Podolski/Cazorla/Ox/Campbell etc, but NO! His treatment to players like Vermaelan, Podolski and now Joel Campbell has only one effect - Vermaelan leaves and the latter 2 have lost all the enthusiasm to play and supporters like me have lost all the enthusiasm to watch Arsenal's games. Sorry to say but Southampton is more exciting than Arsenal.

  128. Guy in Jersey

    Oct 01, 2014, 9:50 #58242

    Great article. I'll also ask one more question of the Pro-Wenger brigade, when was the last time Wenger made a tactical adjustment to secure an important result? He's been outdone time and time again by smarter managers, but I can't recall the last time he employed the mythical Plan B to good effect.