Do the public voices of Arsenal fans want their tummies tickled?

A Call to Arms



Do the public voices of Arsenal fans want their tummies tickled?

Can the four main fan groups unite on key issues?


Last week I listened to a podcast debate between @GeoffArsenal and Moh from ArsenalFanTV and creator of the #YouSpendWeSpend campaign. I like Geoff; he comes from a similar generation as myself and seems a nice guy, although I do struggle with his continued unwavering belief in Arsene and the club. As to Moh, not really heard much of his previous rhetoric, but I have to say that during the first few minutes of the debate he did come across as quite condescending. However, by the end of it, once I got over the sniping and repetition, I gave the decision to Moh on points.

The interesting thing was the reaction to the debate on Twitter, which has led me to this article. To me it seems Gooners are falling in to the following categories:
1. Those who want Wenger gone, regardless of how much responsibility he actually holds for some of the mistakes Arsenal has made. The worrying thing about this group is that they have chosen to disregard what he has done for our club to the extent where they will abuse him.
2. Those who believe that change is needed; that Wenger should have bowed out at the end of last season as a winner, leaving his legacy intact. A new 3 year contract was not merited for winning a trophy, when in reality we were 8 minutes from defeat in the semi by Wigan, eventually winning the penalty lotto and then 2 nil down to Hull within 8 minutes of the final starting.
3. Those really not sure, unconvinced by the last few years, but willing to let him have 1 last try at getting it right now the financial handcuffs are off. But they’re not many bad results away from wanting change sooner rather than facing 3 more years of on field failure seemingly offset by financial success.
4. Those who feel that Wenger is the right man for the job, mainly because of their favourite mantra; "If he goes, who's available & good enough to take over?" There may be a fear of change and the damage it could do behind their reluctance.
5. Those who are right behind him, who feel that he is a victim of bad luck with injuries, the filthy rich chavs and mancs and that any mistakes that have been made are the fault of someone other than AW. All that is required is patience, because Wenger, self-sustainability and FFP will lead us to the land of milk & honey.

These are five pretty broad categories, there may even be more. I feel the majority of our support find themselves flitting between the three middle grounds, mainly based on results and performances. Quite a few have already nailed their colours to 1 or 5 and won’t be shifted come what may. By the final whistle v Chelsea there could be more defectors from 3 to 2 and 2 to 1 if we don’t show any improvement on last year’s visit. I’m not suggesting we are odds on to lose, but I’m also not willing to accept that any possible defeat by less than six goals can really be considered progress.

So with so much angst and anger amongst the fans what can be done? Well one thing I think we need to see is a combined effort from the supporter groups to communicate with the club on certain subjects. At the moment, we as fans are spending all our time and energy fighting with each other, whilst the club gets a free ride from being brought to account; talk about divide & conquer!

Now, we have our share of bell ends as fans, I’m pretty sure there will be quite a few supporters who will suggest I am one just for writing this. However, I firmly believe that the ratio of idiots against total fans is a lot lower at Arsenal than it is at other clubs, particularly the likes of Chelsea, where the club is led in the boardroom, the dugout and on the pitch by three of the most loathsome individuals you could ever have the misfortune to deal with on one continent, let alone all at the same football club.

I reckon that as a fan base we have some really great people following our club. Some of them are hilariously funny, making me laugh on a daily basis. Others are very astute about the game, providing analysis of players, systems and tactics far beyond that of a lot of the so-called media experts. Many are brilliant at debating an issue, using facts and logic and not resorting to childish behaviour. Then there are the economists, some of whom break down the complexities of modern football finances into simple terms, so that simple fans like myself can understand.

I’ve seen a lot of criticism of the financial discussions lately and yes, some of it is repetitive and becomes tedious, especially in 140 characters. A lot of the criticism is based around the ‘why should we care about the figures?’ argument, which I struggle with. Should such matters be beyond the sort of mindless ‘consumers’ who plough their hard earned cash into following their team? Would you allow any other provider of a service or product to take the p*** out of you the way the club do? No, because you’d switch to another product or company. Not an option for us junkies is it!

Geoff on the debate was quite dismissive about the 3% increase and for once I don’t need @SwissRamble to tell me that an increase of just over £30 on my £1k season ticket is actually less than a quid a week. You know what, Geoff is right, that quid a week isn’t going to bankrupt me or mean my kids will go without shoes or be downgraded from butter to dripping. However, that’s not the point, because what is pertinent is that the rise was completely unnecessary. I would rather have given the £30 to the NSPCC or Macmillan than to the club, especially when you learn that by complete coincidence, the total raised by the 3% was roughly equal to the ‘advisory fees’ charged by Silent Stan.

Anyway, see what I did there? I allowed my passion for the club and my own opinion to spill over in to my writing and I so wanted to avoid that because of what is coming next! I want to set a challenge and I’m going to ask the Arsenal supporters’ groups, fanzines, bloggers and tweeters to take it on.

There is one common denominator amongst all of us, across the whole fan base and certainly this should be the case for those who set out to represent us in a greater way than being a single voice; the simple fact that we all love Arsenal.

Each & every one of us is addicted. We are Arsenal junkies and the owners know they have the only supply of what we need. We live & breathe for AFC. Outside of my wife & kids, the most important thing in my life is Arsenal and it has been that way for over 40 years. The same can be said for others, some will have 60 years, others will be newer to the habit, but every fan, regardless of their opinion on how things are right now, only wants one thing and that is for Arsenal to succeed on the pitch.

Yes, self-sustainability is great. Yes, the support of Gay Gooners and leading the fight to kick all forms of discrimination out of football is brilliant. Undoubtedly our players having the humility to take the p*** out of themselves on social media for certain causes is terrific. But you know what, at the end of the day supporting the club is about those 90 minutes. It’s about doing everything you can to produce a team that will win when they cross that white line. That comes down to the owner, the board, the manager, the coaches, the scouts, the medical team (!) and the players. We as fans will do our utmost to help them and when you look at our brilliant away support, who have had some pretty horrendous experiences over the last few seasons, I think we stick to our side of the bargain.

So, we have some smart people involved in following the club. Plus we all love the Arsenal and want them to do everything within their power to build a team that wins as often as it can. So here’s the challenge.

I would like all those who carry weight of fan support behind them to get together. I want them to first of all agree that there is a need for us to show some unity. They may all have different priorities and certainly differing opinions on particular topics, but as I have said above, they should all have one common goal. Then, agree on an agenda and on a few subjects to discuss. Then get together in a room and behave like professional people, who are smart enough to debate sensibly and who all want Arsenal to succeed. Yes, there will be heated discussion and some will need to suggest concessions and others will need to accept them. Reach an agreement on what is the best way to present your communication and finally on what you are asking of the club.

I can suggest a few things below:
• What is the correlation between the 3% rise on season tickets and the advisory fee taken from the club by KSE?
• Why does a leading English Premier League football club, in existence for 128 years, who sat at the top table of European football long before the interest from KSE, require ‘advisory services’?
• After a very successful start to the transfer window, why was there a huge period of inactivity until the late deadline day purchase of a striker and would that purchase have still been made if our regular first choice had not suffered an injury the previous week meaning a lengthy spell out injured?
• Why, given the stature of our club, the finances available and the breadth of our scouting network could we not have found a player to supplement the protection in front of our back four, an area which was identified as a key weakness during the previous season?
• Why was our club captain and first choice as back up for centre half allowed to leave, without an adequate replacement being brought in?
• Based on what has happened at Man Utd thus far and last season, which shows the difficulties in replacing a long term successful manager, is the club actively involved in succession planning so that we are prepared for a structured handover during 2017?
• With the fact that we have very few problems at Emirates Stadium with crowd behaviour, why does it appear that the stadium management make it difficult for fans and fan groups to try and improve the match day atmosphere and experience?

There you go, there’s seven off the cuff. I’m certain that some of the above may have to be reworded to avoid any offence being caused or omitted completely, but the framework is there. I’m sure that people in the supporters’ groups, fanzines & blogs, who already commit far more of their time to the club than I do can come up with some additions and improvements. If they can find agreement on say five questions to ask the club, they could present an open letter to the board in advance of the AGM. It could show that these groups who represent the fans are prepared to come together and take a united stance on certain points of interest. Surely the board would have to take note of their combined audience and the power of their opinions amongst the wider fan base, especially with Arsenal’s huge presence on social media.

There are those who will claim that producing such an open letter is just negativity, giving the media another stick to beat us with. They’ll say we need to get behind the players we have and support the team. My response would be that when we are needed, on match day when it really matters, we are 100% behind whichever players are wearing the cannon on their chest. I would never suggest doing something that harmed the team’s chances on the pitch, but asking a few specific, non-personal questions, either as a paying customer of a business or as a supporter of the club, is not disloyal. Remember, Arsenal should exist for the fans, not for the owner or the TV companies.

Then there will be some who will say what’s the point. The club don’t have to respond, which in itself would speak volumes. They could respond and they pay shedloads of money to people far smarter than me to provide smoke, mirrors and general obfuscation as a response if they so desire. But really, to do nothing? Is the best path one where we simply roll over and let Stan tickle our tummy? Is that what supporting Arsenal is about? Not for me it isn’t. I’d suggest that Peter Storey’s penalty in 71, Rocky’s goal at the Lane in 87, Michael Thomas at Anfield or Thierry v Liverpool in 04 is actually what supporting this club is about.

So, this is my challenge to the AISA, AST, RedAction and the BSM. I throw it out also to the Gooner fanzine and those who have huge followings on the web & social media such as ArseBlog, LeGrove, SheWore, Bergkamp Wonderland, ArsenalFanTV and any others with similar audiences. I’m not asking you to become mates, hell you don’t even have to like each other (probably a good thing!), you just need to be ‘man’ enough (excuse the sexism) to put any differences, personal or otherwise to one side, for the good of the club we all follow. I am aware that in the past year, an attempt was made to do something similar, which failed to gain accord from all the groups involved. I think it’s worth another try surely?

Can you come together? Can you forego personal agendas, point scoring and sniping. Are you able to decide on some common areas of discussion, talk through them rationally, show flexibility and a bit of give and take for the greater good? Finally, to agree on a communication to the club that shows we will not be steamrollered by the businessmen in charge. Show them that even if they can take the p*** out of us financially, at least we won’t let them do it without putting up some kind of fight; making them work for it and publicly justify their actions.


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97
comments

  1. Ozzie

    Oct 06, 2014, 1:35 #58620

    @anti wenger, (The game turned out as 'expected') I reckon you speak for the majority. Isn't it fun watching "sport" when you can regularly predict the result? Gamblers must be making a fortune with all these certainties.

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 05, 2014, 19:10 #58572

    jj, good post, and the Gizzard? best one yet.

  3. reboot

    Oct 05, 2014, 17:57 #58554

    Every time he plays Mourinho its rope a dope. Somebody show him the rumble in the jungle film. With our managers superior intellect surely he can see the parrallels

  4. jjetplane

    Oct 05, 2014, 17:46 #58553

    Well Pod should be off to Italy come January so there's a bit of loose change for the Gizzard and Charlie Chaplin. We really are degrading by the game and now Santi finds himself battling alone while dear old Mesut (Torres syndrome) must be causing all those sniggers on the opposition bench because as a class player (a WC luxury) he is taking the flak for a poor manager's lack of footballing knowledge. He has become unlistenable post match and Maureen is obviously going to come out better as I do believe he numblingly has Wenger's number to the point where they do not have to up the gear to beat them. Quite shameful. One for WESTIE your mate LVG appears to be moving up the ladder and it looks like Sam is remoulding Song into an 'immense' figure in front of the defence. Funny how Wenger could never manage it and let's bet a pretty dollar Poddie will be banging them in for Inter (?) come the new year. Looks like Wenger has to make room for the bubble blowers as well 'cause it is getting a bit crowded around the spoils. Still - sell Ramsay for a good enough price, get out of the CL group and Bob's your ****ing uncle. Meanwhile we got Chichester (good theatre) in the league and cup. Oh my punctured football. Who pulled all the ties/repeat (Song) - not him again! Come on you Routers!

  5. DJ

    Oct 05, 2014, 17:46 #58552

    To drop the Ox for Jack just to shoehorn another central midfielder upset the balance of the team. After playing so well Wednesday what message does that send to the Ox that he was sacrificed ahead of bigger names? Ozil vs Cesc no contest, let the battle for fourth commence!

  6. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 05, 2014, 17:42 #58551

    Is it any coincidence it's Carry On Day? and Carry On Again Doctor is been shown at the moment, Carry On Regardless is on it's way.

  7. reboot

    Oct 05, 2014, 17:31 #58550

    ANG - dont forget to get the odds from westlower first

  8. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 05, 2014, 17:25 #58549

    Patrick, mantle piece mate? and look at his clueless mug everyday, anyway there's no need to, he's been in his pocket for years.

  9. Martyn

    Oct 05, 2014, 17:06 #58547

    The chav defence had it easy today. Arsenal were clueless up front and Wenger once again showed his tactical ineptitude in trying to alter the game plan, if there was one in the first place. I thought we were quite solid in defence and had the better of the midfield but our attacking approach was predictable. Same old like for like changes and panic changes when the game was out of reach. As for Ozil, either get another manager who can get the best out of him or transfer him in the January window. The latter is more likely.

  10. anti wenger

    Oct 05, 2014, 17:00 #58546

    Well, not much to say really. Nothing new was learnt, the game turned out as expected. For now, I can't go into a game against Chelsea or Mourinho believing that we can win. And I kind of believe that same applies to Wenger and any group of players he sends out on the pitch. Chelsea didn't play so well today, but we were already defeated psychologically before the game even started so there was only one possible outcome.

  11. Groundhog

    Oct 05, 2014, 16:58 #58545

    same old. chelsea, everton, spurs, city all played and none of them beaten. how many matches did we win last seaon against the top 6 ? exactly. nothing has changed. our manager does not equip his players with any tactical nous.

  12. AMG

    Oct 05, 2014, 16:45 #58544

    How many inch perfect assists did Ozil make today? Wenger will never beat Mourinho, I feel 100% confident in saying that, I will be putting money on it in fact.

  13. danny

    Oct 05, 2014, 16:38 #58543

    no impact from Ozil gain why wasn't he taken off ? Too many lightweight players in the team

  14. Hiccup

    Oct 05, 2014, 16:38 #58542

    Roy, Arsenal have still won more PL games at Stamford Bridge than any other team. Stick that in your pipe...

  15. The ghost of Ted Drake

    Oct 05, 2014, 16:34 #58541

    Now I know what the spuds feel like constantly in the shadow of their rivals, ours being the chavs. It's now become embarassing, Wenger has to go, he just can't cut it any more, has no tactics and just can't motivate.

  16. Roy

    Oct 05, 2014, 16:12 #58540

    Exactly as most predicted, I think - we wouldn't get battered, but we would get beat. They are just better than us, and until we address our obvious deficiencies like they did, that's the way it will stay. Yawn.

  17. Patrick

    Oct 05, 2014, 16:02 #58539

    Does morinho get to keep wenger on his mantle piece now? How can anyone defend this predictable mediocrity from the man in charge?? So so weak arsene.

  18. badrad

    Oct 05, 2014, 13:48 #58538

    Not going to watch the match today. Not coz we're likely to loose, nor coz we might get trolleyed again. Can't take watching Cesc playing against us, FOR FACKIN CHELSKI. Not going to sully the wonderful memmories of Cesc in an Arsenal shirt

  19. Danny

    Oct 05, 2014, 11:56 #58536

    seems like a major split of teh fan bas. went to the cl game with the Turks and the the Turks out sang the crowd pathetic.The game was like wengers team talks- silence! guys, the point here is has wenger taken the club as far as he can. Is the board pushing wenger to win or just balance the books from what i read and heard, the problem has always been wenger. a loser of a coach with no tactically knowledge he needs to go

  20. jjetplane

    Oct 05, 2014, 11:24 #58535

    KERCHING superb post mucker! meet lotsa people in 'my various guises' and before watching my local team get their ass kicked (put up a fight) I met some variously 'monied' gooners. One guy wearing all Arsenal stuff said he was getting a lift to London and taking his grandad to a pub to watch it. Another lady with daughter (Arsenal shirts on a non match day a long way form Holloway) said 'we go to the Emirates tournament but that's are lot - a special treat' Tell em all my first game cost me a shilling to get in and have never been to the Emirates and am so riled by the situ that I may never go as a measure of how much I find that particular package (sic) well morally reprehensible. Manager of our local club is rumoured to be having words with a bigger fish and we REALLY do have injury/squad numbers problems. Still, for 10 minutes of the second half yesterday we played like heroes and a score of us were giving the ref vocal hell cause he was a wanker (song). Say all this with nutty Nigel's goal on a loop in my brain this week along with Kanu's personal destruction manual so let's hope we do the 10 minute hero show and give those Arsenal fans who have been locked out of the top tier something to smile about. No excuses Wenger. You get enough for doing what you do. See if you warrant it. On another note can we have some stories about the TEA SHED that seemed to hang in the air behing the North Bank. That was where the faces went for a rosie. Anyway - well done Bournemouth! Big team!

  21. BADARSE

    Oct 05, 2014, 9:20 #58532

    Liked it 24601. Even ABBA had some words to add, 'The judges will decide. The likes of me abide. Spectators of the show, always staying low. The game is on again-a lover or a friend. A big thing or a small. The winner takes it all.' Give us a show redmen!

  22. Westlower

    Oct 05, 2014, 7:56 #58529

    Arsene's song (words from Cabaret): Maybe this time I'll be lucky, maybe this time I'll win. Not a loser anymore, like the last time & the time before. Everybody loves a winner, so nobody loved me. When all the odds are in my favour, somethings bound to begin. It's gotta happen, happen sometime, maybe this time I'll win.........

  23. Ozzie

    Oct 05, 2014, 5:20 #58527

    A Cornish Gooner, are you working on that pomposity project of yours? Doesn't matter what you say there are always those who have been there, done that and delight in superimposing their own views over yours and stealing your thunder. You see, they have a little knowledge and likethe big fish in a little pond, thrive by challenging all the minnows. Invite them into a lake with the 'big boys' and they'll probably tell you to....don't laugh out loud :) COYG.

  24. Ozzie

    Oct 05, 2014, 3:21 #58525

    Keef, capitalism is the nature of the parasite and the damage wont regenerate until the parasite dies from it's own gluttony - which is happening in it's own time. Go smell the flowers and wonder at the night sky, my friend.

  25. keef petrovic

    Oct 05, 2014, 1:04 #58524

    Capitalism in all its ugly forms has killed top level football, all romance gone, a very sad loss.

  26. Kerching

    Oct 04, 2014, 22:14 #58522

    Anyone see the REAL attendance figures release by the Met and not the invented figures released by the club on matchday.The club is afraid to tell the truth.Not one gate was within 3,000 of selling out.And that was a season we were top for 4 months.Average gates were 7,000 below 60,000.I have said it many times before the fan groups should get together and organise a mass boycott of one game.But sadly most of the fan groups are in Gazidis back pocket.In the late 70's and 80's before GG we played in a stadium that held 55,000 yet the ground was a third full for most of the games.Because the fans could vote with their feet fans had the option of saying f**k it i'm not going to games.Now 40,000 fans pay nearly £1200 before a ball is even kicked.I bet even Silent Stan cant believe how apathetic our fans really are.On and off the pitch the club are failing the fans who just bend over and take it up the a**e.We get what we deserve.At no other club in the World would fans put up with a manager who wins one trophy in 9 years and pay at least £1200 for the privilege.The Emirates is not a football ground its a bank

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 04, 2014, 20:27 #58521

    Red Member, you certainly have and fair play to you for that, and you certainly haven't received any abuse from me. But my opinion is and I've been saying this for quite a while myself, only when they HEAR it in the stadium will they take any notice (and i'm also referring to OGL here also) and will there be any change, there's nothing the old farts hate more and nothing that makes them feel uncomfortable and embarrasses them as much as the fans letting them know what they think at games, in the full glare of the media, and TV company's etc,etc, with the world watching, that would really have them squirming in their padded seats and the haemorrhoids playing up, and you can be sure Sky would turn the volume up and make sure everybody heard it, and the journo's read about it, and if it was on going for a month or two to the point where the old farts were to embarrassed to turn up for games knowing what they're in for something would/would have been done, and maybe there would have been less donkeys playing for the club over the last five years and embarrassments and humiliations on the pitch. But no doubt some will say it's not the Arsenal way, we're to nice for that, well bollocks to that it's about time the fans had a say, and showed some balls and not be afraid to say it,and let their feelings known after all we've had to put up with over the years and still are. All the other suggestions are fair and well but there's only one that will work, especially if we're humiliated again tomorrow.

  28. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 20:25 #58520

    Bard my experience has shown me two things in this area. The first is you get nothing if they don't want to give, and they don't. The second point is the only time something 'positive' happens as a result of the pressure implied, is if they see it as a necessity. The Ozil transfer may have been brought to the front of the hob, due to fan pressure. I wouldn't discount it, but think it was bubbling nicely on the back burner anyway. The supermarket dash of BFG, Pod and Mikael, was clearly brought about by an emergency, not fan pressure. Again something may have been simmering in one, two or even three pots. Welbeck was intensified by Giroud's injury certainly, but I feel fairly certain it was another pot cooking on the stove. I think at the end of it all I can best serve you, or anyone with a disconcerted, or even frustrated and confused mind, by yet another BADARSE analogy. A friend is a conservationist, and does her recycling bit. Telling her of another districts failings, and the countries woeful commitment and operation had an adverse effect on her, and not just by my emphasis, but the dreadful realisation that it was almost a waste of time. I told her that like me, she does whatever it is, first and foremost, for herself. All else is incidental. You do it because you believe in the cause, and you believe in yourself. Nothing else really matters. Fight the fight. Go down fighting. Stick to your principles and beliefs, but also lend an ear to other views. There is more than one way to reach your goal, in fact most goals are never reached. I've been active, and not so active, and downright inactive over many issues throughout my life and have probably not made one iota of difference. I still care enough to try, and to keep on trying. Then my friend, personal salvation comes at least, even if nothing else does.

  29. Carlos

    Oct 04, 2014, 19:13 #58518

    Judean Peoples' Front, People's Front of Judea. Stan Kroenke is laughing his headpiece off. He's dipped his toe into the water so far as taking money out of the club and bringing in ticket price increases are concerned. Does the ground sell out? Has there been any backlash of note? What do you think will happen next year? Peter Hill-Wood was a prophet.

  30. Bard

    Oct 04, 2014, 19:12 #58517

    Baddie; the answer to your question is yes and no. I didn't want to believe it and still don't. Thats why I feel so passionately about it. I don't know what to do about it other than chuck in my ticket but I can't because I still believe in changing things. Deluded though it might seem I feel fan power got us Ozil after Villa last year. I feel fan power will also see the end of Wenger.

  31. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 18:17 #58515

    martin, I worked with Stuart Myers many times over the last twenty years or more. He now lives in Cyprus.

  32. martin

    Oct 04, 2014, 18:08 #58514

    Is anyone going to the AGM who is from Gooner or a face? Referring back to Alan, whatever happened to Stuart Myers, I know he was a friend of DarrenArsenal but this guy knew everyone within at arsenal at aa phone call away, started the Arsenal Action Group, still alive???

  33. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 17:39 #58513

    Hiccup, your last post was right on the money. Thing is, and I shall keep saying it in a many variety of ways, it isn't just Arsenal. It's happening everywhere. No one wants a dissenter, a trouble maker, someone who actually realises and says that the emperor isn't wearing clothes. It's a conundrum, but life always has been. It's just visited our little corner of the world, our Arsenal. You wait until the middle east moves to England, that too is likely. Ah, well, time to put the kettle on, but I do have a red one, as some old stagers may tell you.

  34. Hiccup

    Oct 04, 2014, 17:32 #58512

    Mark, I totally see what you're saying, but you're looking at it from your point of view. The club would rather have 60,000 crash test dummies sat in the ground not knowing or caring what the f*ck is happening. The perfect business model. They want to eradicate fans like you that care about football, and then they can really go to town on the fans left that think it's trendy to go to football.

  35. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 17:21 #58511

    Yes Hiccup, but at Waitrose they give you a free cuppa Rosie, they have me hooked.

  36. Hiccup

    Oct 04, 2014, 17:18 #58510

    Bard, the club behave like M&S, so surely the fans have to start behaving like rational customers. Sainsburys and Tescos in the news this week admitting they're in the sh!t and need to change the way they operate. Their customers don't write to the head office asking for an explanation as to why their marrowfat peas are 30p dearer than Aldi. They let their feet do the talking and now profits are down it's forced their hands. But like you say, I think arsenal fans are akin to Waitrose and M&S shoppers in that they think they're getting a superior brand/product/service with the high prices. But it's all a marketing myth.

  37. Mark King

    Oct 04, 2014, 17:09 #58509

    Hiccup. The problem is that it will even further eradicate the pleasure of going to watch our team for the 'real' fans. Plus the atmosphere will become more and more passive, which will not help the team in situations where they need the crowd to act as 12th man. Part of the appeal of the PL is still the fact that it is a game played in front of 'passionate' crowds, although this has become less prevalent at certain 'big' clubs where in recent years the traditional support has been eroded. Spicer. Any business should care about bad publicity from it's 'customers' even if they are hooked in to that particular brand. At the end of the day, even if it gets nowhere, I don't fancy going down without a good moan about the situation! Bet that's got Gazidis shaking in his boots!

  38. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 17:02 #58508

    Bars, yes the 'old' Arsenal has gone, but didn't you notice that a lot earlier? It's like a child, they are a baby in your arms, then a tiny tot, a toddler, a small person and then it's nursery school, and big school. That baby, and all those intermediary stages have passed. They will never return. A child becomes a four years old, blowing out the candles, and will never, ever be that funny little three years old once more. It is over! Evolution does that. It happens so slowly, that if you blink it's begun to happen, often without you realising. The art of survival demands you do though. It gives a clearer perspective of life, reality. It's no good clamouring and wailing over lost years, you have to deal with it, accept, then move on. I have been witnessing Arsenal change and evolve throughout, and it will always do so, and will ever continue. It doesn't change when someone throws a switch-did you miss the tiny nuances in society, all those small dictates? Welcome to the Pleasure Dome my friend, this is Arsenal today. Other places abroad do things differently, like in Germany. Yet in Germany they are very pro the European Union, and think it's very bizarre that a newly formed party with no policy except an 'anti-Europe' agenda, should gain such license. I speak of UKIP. Other members are appalled that we should want to leave, even break up the union, and to discard the Human Rights legislation. France rejects huge faceless supermarkets like ASDA and Tesco, preferring to support local producers-we want cheap! France doesn't do Branded clothing as we do. A shirt doesn't have to have a name on it, I would prefer to call my shirt 'Fred', and labels are on the inside of boxer shorts. Our recycling record is abysmal by comparison to most other countries. We seem not to care. Do you see a pattern emerging? Not relevant to our club you might say but in some ways it may be. Guess you have to think about it a bit. Look at the bigger picture and decide. Or you can just walk away. Not sure how you manage to walk away from life though, unless like some you mumble and moan on a website perpetually, like this one. That'll do it.

  39. Bars

    Oct 04, 2014, 16:24 #58507

    Spicer: good post. Got me to thinking about something I wrote a while ago about being more like Dortmund or Athletico. There was a train of thought that was appalled by such an idea. We, the mighty Arsenal, are too good to be bracketed in that category. But right now it feels like we are more like Marks and Spencer, let alone one of those clubs. A kind of corporate non entity with a fancy marketing department. The club cleverly feed me the odd morsel like we're going to sign Khedira in January and for a moment I get excited but then I wake up and realize that the Arsenal I fell in love with died many moons ago.

  40. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 15:58 #58506

    'I can't stand it anymore, no DM, ST prices raised again, no cover at CH, tourists in the seats of the old fans, I'm going to drive my car into this tree in the snowstorm, and jump off the bridge into the river. I wish I'd never been born a Gooner!' 'Help, help!' 'Hang on I'll jump in and save you old man.' SPLASH. 'I've saved you George.' 'Saved me? I jumped in after you.' 'Yes, but I saved you. My name is Clarence incidentally, and I am your Guardian Angel. I have to help you see the error of your ways then if I succeed I get my wings like Geordie Armstrong. Oh and you've got your wish.' 'My wish?' 'Yes you are no longer a Gooner.' 'Danged fool of an old timer, talking of Baker, Kelsey, and Tapscott. Who are these people?' 'You don't know George because you never became a Gooner and bothered with the names of the old teams.' 'I know old Arsenal players, like that carthorse Henry, and that sideways-passing clown Bergkamp...why did I say that?' 'It's because you were never born a Gooner. I've told you that. You'll find many things different now-you were born a Sour.' 'Hoddle, doddle, Waddle! Why oh why did I say that?' 'I keep telling you George.' 'Yeah, I know I was born a ...Glory, Glory Hallelujah. Ouch, it's hurting my head. We won the Double three times.' 'No George, just the once, and it was in black and white.' 'No Clarence, it can't be true. You mean we are not the only side to win a Double in different Millennia?' 'Nope!' 'We never became Invincible?' 'Nope!' 'Didn't set a 49 game unbeaten record, don't have a fantastic state of the art stadium, haven't had an unbroken run stretching back over nearly two decades in the CL? Are always in the top four? Set all those illustrious records through the ages?' 'Nope George. None of those things happened to your team.' ' Oh no, what about the white sleeves, they've gone too?' 'No George you have the white sleeves.' 'Then it's not all bad Clarence?' 'I'm afraid it is George, those white sleeves came with a white body too.' 'Oh no, I want to go back Clarence. I've learned my lesson, I want to be a Gooner again. It's started snowing again. I'm going home. Hello you old Holloway Road, hello you old Famous Cock, hello you old Hope Café, hello you old Arsenal Stadium. Mary I'm home, let's start singing North Bank songs with all these old Gooners, 'And we're Arsenal, Arsenal FC, we're by far the greatest team...' 'Daddy, my teacher says every time a bell rings more money goes into the Armoury.' 'That's right Zuzu. Atta boy Clarence.'

  41. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 15:07 #58504

    Another nice post jjetplane. My younger brother and I followed different marked paths in life-they were never chosen, in my case anyway. He bummed around Europe during the hippie days, meeting friends in Berlin and many outposts. He spent entire summers on Greek islands living in little bivouacs in the caves, beaches and scrubland, along with many of his ilk. His whole world was like a travelling caravan. Magical mystery paintings and weird poets and writers, some we switched each other onto-still do; hair, beards, coloured clothing, and music. In people who have read huge quantities of books, he is the closest to me in absolute numbers. I think I may just edge him, but am a little older so a hollow claim if the case. He rejected his car a lifetime ago, no TV, and like me, no watch-my solid gold omega went some time ago, I cannot tell you when the time was precisely, because I no longer have a watch, but I think it was half past four:-). 'Well I got me a fine wife, I got me old fiddle. When the sun's coming up, I got cakes on the griddle. And life ain't nothing but a funny, funny riddle. Thank Godot, I'm a North Bank boy.' Good luck with the footie today.

  42. Hiccup

    Oct 04, 2014, 15:03 #58503

    I'd like to thank everyone for their warm support today. Difficult times for me but hopefully I can keep my temper under control. If I start raising my voice, just let me know.

  43. jjetplane

    Oct 04, 2014, 14:28 #58502

    Nice one HICCup good to see you back and a brave decision having seen how JAMie appears to be the leader of the apostles now and the apostles are looking rather bemused by the swiftness of the action. I await BADARSE's foray into the world of PC uncorrectness. Or have I just missed it! Kidding mate. But seriously some of us do have red blood with white bits which must really **** off the Spuds among us - you know who you are! and like it or not if you are a gooner you are in for the long haul and HICCuPs insight is a good working model. Football is first and foremost a gigantic giggle with a load of bolloxs spouted. Remember standing in the Pins and mutterin '.. Overmars ..' into your lager as you wander off to slip in the piss in the bogs that were dark and smelly. Wonder if Wenger ever took a piss in the Pins? The mystery of football .... ps re the gadgetry of our common lives - I don't personally own a car, house, tv or such like but love the post modernist anti world we inhabit and re the tourist stuff - I have done that in stadia in lots of places without the Arsenal but having been an honorary little Highbury boy you just carry wherever you go. Love meeting Arsenal fans and they seem to be everywhere these days but like HICCuP says - this is a good place to have a wind-up and one last thing before I leave this site yet again because it is like ****ing crack and I don't do that. forget what OGL think he might know Marshall McCluhan once said The Medium is the Message and that is all there is to it .... Au revoir for I am getting on my bike in torrential rain and wind to see my dear little adopted club get possibly spanked by East Preston who are on a role akin to Chelsea. Still reckon a draw is on the cards tomorrow but WESTIE I was in the Pins Pissed when Nigel let fly and that really was one of those moments. Talking of moments - will never forget Dixon laughing his bollox off at the sheer joy of being in the same team as Kanu as I will never forget the singing we did when he scored that Hatrick at the Bridge. Nearly killed me! ha ha.

  44. spicer

    Oct 04, 2014, 14:15 #58501

    Nice fantasy. you make the mistake that your, and others, passion for the club somehow means something to the people who run it, or has any leverage with them. Even if the various groups agreed on some sort of approach, I don't understand why you think they would listen, or feel they have to do anything. My experiences of the club v fans in the nineties was that they are supremely indifferent, and it is hard to see why they should change. So a bunch of fans comes to them and demands answers to a list of questions - what leverage do you have? Protests? Stop going? You think they care? There are plenty of people who will take your seat in the stadium, as far as they concerned you are a minority so what exactly is your point? They will quite happily discuss 'customer service' issues, but they will not ever listen to complaints about players or transfers. You might think because you are long standing fans that it gives you some say, some ownership in Arsenal, but you could not be more wrong. This is a corporate, American business, run along those lines, and has no room for sentiment, or old-fashioned ideas of what football was once here. Like it or lump it, that is the ultimate response. And that is why hardly anybody I knew at Highbury goes to the Emirates - there is no common culture amongst fans any more than there is people going to a cinema or theatre. That is modern football. If you want fan involvement you have to go to smaller clubs where you are really appreciated and needed.

  45. Hiccup

    Oct 04, 2014, 13:43 #58500

    Mark, very valid points. So if the stadium is going to be sold out every week whatever, then it begs the question what's the problem? That speaks volumes that the fans are happy, so why should the club entertain communicating with the fans having to explain its decision processes in the transfer market? I am of the opinion that nothing can be done. I accept that the majority of fans are happy and will continue to pay. And I don't see any hope for the future, certainly when disgruntled fans keep handing cash over. My release is forums like this with like minded fans. Moaning on here is hardly detrimental to the club, so I really don't understand why wenger supporters get upset about it? We don't go to the ground hounding fans with militant action? If you're going to keep going, then you've got to start accepting it for what it is, and try to enjoy it. Why not take your i-phone and camera and try to enjoy the experience like the day trippers do?

  46. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 04, 2014, 13:08 #58499

    Hiccup, good to have you back and good shout, but you left out eight words at the very end after solutions, when it's staring you all in the face.

  47. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 04, 2014, 12:55 #58498

    AMG, you forgot Rupert, he's always the thirteen year old in a suit and tie.

  48. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 12:28 #58496

    24601 our lives are strangely woven patterns of peculiarity and incidents. My Mum was in an old residents home, at the twilight of her life, and we'd gone to visit. Half, (well 51%-a concession to your precise mathematics my friend), was given over to the match on her radio. Then the 'Nutty Boy', scored and I went potty, as did my wife. My Mum joined in. Three clots leaping around and laughing our heads off. A few months later my Mum died. You haven't quite had the effect that radfordkennedy had on me, when we discussed the Spanish Civil War, but the feelings the same. We are strange creatures aren't we? At least those Dark Moanies believe us to be. So many magical memories hung on those Arsenal hooks buddy.

  49. Westlower

    Oct 04, 2014, 12:16 #58495

    @Badarse, I still treasure Nigel's great strike at the Bridge with Petit 'accidently' tripping the Chelsea player who was attempting to close down NW.

  50. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 12:06 #58494

    Mark King, my post of 61778 kind of echoes your last post, I naturally think you are therefore correct in your assumption. @24601, that late Essien equaliser was perhaps the best goal he ever scored in his career, a direct result of not awarding us a free kick, for a clear foul on Alex Hleb(?).

  51. Mark King

    Oct 04, 2014, 11:58 #58492

    My only issue with the statement many have made, that only when fans stop going will the club listen, is that why would that make them listen. If 5k ST holders decide not to renew, 2 things will happen: 5k real fans on the waiting list will take up those seats, so no ****s would be given by the club. 5k seats go up for sale on a match by match basis, bought by Silver & Red members who get the chance to follow the team, or by tourists with their selfie sticks & i-pads. In fact they will probably spend a bundle more on match days in the shop, buying food & drink, programme etc than the new ST holders would. Again, total of ****s given by KSE = 0 The JCL and tourists in the ground now, how did they get their tickets? Because fans who had attended for years either decided voluntarily to stop going or were priced out. If the latter then I completely understand. If the former, thanks a bundle for letting these people get in to the ground instead of you, when at least you were a fan, knew about the club and would have increased the atmosphere to benefit the team.

  52. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 11:56 #58491

    OK Hiccup, I know you are one, Bard, maguiresbridge, AMG, jeff wright and MARCUS are others, who are the other half dozen?

  53. Hiccup

    Oct 04, 2014, 11:45 #58490

    Twelve men have walked on the moon.

  54. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 11:43 #58489

    Bard I agree about unconditional love, but many it's aimed at-the babies-are often thrown out with the bathwater. Seriously, do you really think the debate on here is a pacifists retreat home? Some quietly and respectfully suggesting some things are not quite right, and it might be better if this was changed, or that was tried. That scenario may lie at the bottom of many people's thinking, but it rarely manifests itself on here as such. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, is a phrase best suited to this site. It's a panto scene, 'He's behind you', 'Oh no he isn't.' Then the custard pies start being thrown. People become entrenched and begin speaking from lofty positions, often losing touch with reality. Why dear old maguiresbridge alludes to the fans categorised in numbers 4 and 5, in a negative and derisory fashion. That is how it shows itself, as a 'You are wrong to hold that opinion'. I'm not sure where I stand but kind of straddle a few of those numbers, towards the top end. The analogy of criticising with your wife is fine, even I might disagree with her-only kidding-but it's one thing discussing, criticising perhaps positively, quite another insisting on a permanent fracture every time she forgets to salt the potatoes. It's how much of the fare is perceived on this site. Just on a personal note, unconditional love can stretch way beyond babies, try it, it works. The other aspect, babies can be shown where they are going wrong, and corrected, and should be. That isn't quite criticising, but that doesn't ever need to be the case even with older children, or even adults. Why I never criticise you, I just point out where you are going wrong with your thinking, ha ha. Good old Arsenal.

  55. Ozzie

    Oct 04, 2014, 11:33 #58488

    Anyone on here 'expecting' another hiding this weekend? Thought so. Be consoled chaps - it's only a game, haha.

  56. Westlower

    Oct 04, 2014, 11:24 #58487

    We only played CFC 3 times away in PL during Maureen's first stint as coach 04-07 with 2 drawn & 1 defeat. 04/05, 0-0; 05/06, 1 (Drogba 73)-0; 06/07, 1 (Essien 85)-1 (Flamini 78) + last seasons 0-6. So it's a 50% record for away draws against Maureen in PL.

  57. AMG

    Oct 04, 2014, 10:51 #58486

    JAMIE - there's some discontented people in Hong Kong making a fuss about nothing. Maybe you should go over there on a diplomatic mission, throw a few 'wobbies' and 'moonies' about, maybe you could take your 'real Arsenal fans' with you for support.

  58. AMG

    Oct 04, 2014, 10:38 #58485

    Westie - How many times has Wenger managed a draw against Mourinho at the bridge?

  59. Bard

    Oct 04, 2014, 10:35 #58484

    Jamie: good to hear you have a monopoly on the 'I love Arsenal ' group. The problem is Jamie unconditional love is for babies and the unthinking not adults. I love my wife but it doesn't mean I can't criticise her. And criticising her doesn't mean I don't love her. You're in a muddle mate. I wrote earlier you are much mistaken if you think that those on here who take issue with the club do so because we don't win trophies. The issue is about competing. I dont know which bit of that you don't understand. I don't disagree with your analysis of society's ills but what it has got to do with criticising Wenger I don't know.

  60. Westlower

    Oct 04, 2014, 9:55 #58483

    Arsenal have won more PL games (7) at Stamford Bridge than any other side.

  61. JAMIE

    Oct 04, 2014, 9:50 #58482

    It's the fans lust for success that has brought this state of affairs upon our club.The wob trophy hugging gadget generation who love to be in the fast lane keeping up with the money teams,protesting here and there,new players in and out every five minutes,change the manager,I want it my way generation.In many ways these people are bigger bullies than the money men they are always trying to oust.People like GBP,BADARSE,Westlower and myself are the real Arsenal fans who understand the club have Arsenal in our blood and even though we don't agree with everything the club does have a love for the club and wont join the disgruntled rebels without a cause who will never be happy until Arsenal completely reach this state of perfection they seek,which we know will never happen.

  62. Hiccup

    Oct 04, 2014, 9:03 #58481

    Baddie, my anger management counsellor reckons I'm ready to come back on here, but to take it a day at a time. Would the sponsors move in? A product that would be losing its appeal? Sky don't throw money at speedway. If fans are turned off going because they're being fleeced, Sky would need to increase its subscriptions to compensate, and fans would stop subscribing. I already think sky is dear. I cancel every year, unless they offer it half price. Sometimes they don't so I cancel, but within a week they're on the phone to me giving me half off. I can take it or leave it. I certainly couldn't stomach 85 quid for the arsenal profit fund.

  63. Bard

    Oct 04, 2014, 9:00 #58480

    Hiccup good post mate. Love the allusion to Hayley's comet. I read that Wenger views last seasons thrashing by Chelsea as an accident, although he felt able to ignore, the Liverpool, and City ones. But hell the facts don't matter much. My hope is that there will be a groundswell of anger rather like what happened at Liverpool with Gillet and Hicks. It hurts the brand and therefore sales, but I totally accept its a long shot. Meanwhile I hope we won't have to watch the usual tactical suicide against Chelsea tomorrow but I'm not holding my breath. Wenger hasn't beaten Maureen in 10 outings

  64. au revoir wenger

    Oct 04, 2014, 8:58 #58479

    Johnny Lynch bang on mate there is more atmosphere watching Arsenal in the pub than at that overpriced opera house the emirates

  65. BADARSE

    Oct 04, 2014, 8:29 #58478

    Morning Hiccup. If stadiums emptied all over the globe then my guess is that TV would step in big time and fill the void. The sponsors would have the anti upped, clubs would grow wealthier and football would have evolved into an armchair sport. The system is far too strong my friend. Ten thousand ST holders rejecting them would only see a couple of thou buying and nothing would change. At least that is my take on it. Nice to see you back-it's been a long time, I nearly didn't recognise you with all that hair you've grown-growing out of your ears gave you away! ha ha only kidding chum. Good old Arsenal.

  66. Hiccup

    Oct 04, 2014, 8:20 #58477

    Fair effort mark, but the joining of forces of all these impotent groups won't make much difference. There's been too much dithering in the past, and like the questions you pose, all dressed up to come across as being reasonable and non aggressive. If the board have read this they'll be p!ssing themselves knowing the fans are still f@rting around like any one cares about them. I'm not even sure fans want the same thing to be honest? The i-pod fan isn't even watching the game. The tourist fan is too stuck in awe with everything to know what's even going on. I'm not even sure some fans are bothered about winning? They're proud to have millions in the bank, and 6-0 hammerings are put down to cyclical events like Hayley's comet. The only difference being the thrashings are far more frequent. As posters on here keep saying, a half empty stadium will speak volumes. It would certainly blow this myth that wenger is taking a bullet for the board by making them money. He'd soon sell them down the river if funds weren't being made available. But hey ho, carry on scratching your heads looking for solutions.

  67. Red Member

    Oct 04, 2014, 7:27 #58475

    For about 3 years now I have said that unless season ticket holders give up their tickets then nothing will change. I have received a lot of abuse for saying so but you know what 3 years on and nothing has changed! Ok we fluked an FA cup win but in terms of the PL and CL if anything the club is getting worse.

  68. PerryG

    Oct 03, 2014, 21:53 #58473

    Johnny Lynch was making it into the next edition of the gooner until the comment about the editor, true that it is. It's Sad but football has lost its soul to money

  69. JAMIE

    Oct 03, 2014, 19:30 #58470

    Everybody moans about the establishment,yet whenever they bring out their campaigns whether it be being nice to gays,foreigners etc.Everybody follows like sheep,except us few who are in the know and have nothing to do with the world in general.

  70. Dan

    Oct 03, 2014, 18:06 #58469

    No point, the club is ****ed, once Wenger ruins it by the end of his contract, their won't be anything left...

  71. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 03, 2014, 17:57 #58468

    Bard, yes mate, these super fans of categories four and five really are embarrassing us ordinary ones aren't they? baaaaaaa.

  72. BADARSE

    Oct 03, 2014, 17:56 #58467

    Hi Johhny Lynch, yes buddy, times have changed, and it seems to older people, not for the better. The youngsters know no different. That is the crux of the unhappiness most complain of. I don't share your take on it being a master plan of AW's. It is progress. People associate progress with moving forward, and improvement, actually that is a cloak thrown over all things to get a seal of approval to just plough straight ahead, actually it is regressive in many ways. Pull down the slum terraces and build ugly blocks in the sky, where you trap people 100 feet up in the air-thank goodness those flats at least come with inside toilets. New, new, new, and tear up everything which is outdated. Generally what's meant by this is, 'it'll turn a nice profit.' That's happening everywhere, all over the world, and it's happening at our club, it will not change! On a survey a few years back very few people admitted to being working class. That also has gone, so now the Tristans may come from a nearby estate, along with the Chardonnays. Those fans with cameras are visitors and people just trying to record a wishy-washy existence, that too is happening everywhere. Go to a concert, enjoy the band, simple experience. However now the people attending stand like statues recording the concert by holding a daft phone up in the air for the entire performance. One, do they ever watch the recording? and two, is it worth it? A tiny jumpy picture or the real thing. You see the kids have lost it, merchandise forced down their throats, and gadgets galore. It is a changing world my friend, and I mourn most of what we have lost, probably quite a few losses more than yourself-but it isn't Arsene Wenger's fault. Blame evolution.

  73. AMG

    Oct 03, 2014, 17:56 #58466

    A brilliant article Mark. Johnny L is right on the money as always, the only way to do your talking is with your wallet - No season ticket, no money into Stan's pocket, simples. Unfortunately, as JL rightly points out, the Emirates is now home to the iPad brigade, none of whom probably think about the club much outside of fortnightly their day out with Tristan and Atticus to see Wengerball and facebook their mates.

  74. Mark King

    Oct 03, 2014, 17:03 #58463

    Appreciate all the comments and at least some felt inclined to reply even if they do feel my trousers will be piss sgained from doing it upwind! I'm just sick of the fighting, sniping & back biting that goes on when they should focus on addressing the feal issues to the club. This way, if they don't want to work together then at least wd will know who they are. As to real fans hhaving been priced out, I can see that & yes the game has changed, but I know plenty of old school fans who have managed to keep going, so there is something still there to work with.

  75. BADARSE

    Oct 03, 2014, 16:39 #58461

    Mark, thanks for a very well constructed case, and your writing is not half bad, seriously. Unions/affiliations/groups/countries, argue amongst themselves but determine a policy within their own borders. To get extra muscle/action they join a bigger group and go with the core vote of that amalgamation, the TUC, European Union, the UN. That is the only conceivable way a disparate group of Arsenal fan's groups can unite and become the one voice which may make some small difference. How you get them to combine as one group, giving up their form of sovereignty to the 'head' is anyone's guess, that would be the difficult part.

  76. DJ

    Oct 03, 2014, 16:32 #58460

    Power corrupts and absolute power corrupt absolutely! Never better illustrated than all the so called Arsenal fan groups wanting nothing more than to recognised by the club and be part of the establishment!

  77. GBP

    Oct 03, 2014, 16:22 #58458

    Johnny L - Whichever way any of us who row on here look at Arsenal now, we all agree with your post there i would think. Im not with you on Wenger but on the lifeblood real supporters of football have now been hovered out years ago youre on the money fella. To be honest i reckon its the new culture of football most of us are at loggerheads about, its isnt so much Wenger or sub standard players etc etc. Youve found a common strand there in your post.

  78. Roy

    Oct 03, 2014, 16:16 #58457

    I was going to try and make a common sense response to what, after all, is far from the worst article I've ever read and one that has clearly had some thought put into it. Then I read Johnny Lynch's post, and I'll just say this instead. Times certainly have changed for the worst and well done Johnny for telling it exactly like it is.

  79. Bard

    Oct 03, 2014, 15:57 #58456

    Admirable effort Mark and in theory it's a great idea. But I think you're being naive if you believe the Club give a toss about what any of the fans think . We are now punters mate. Do you think Philip Green cares what a few people think about Top Shop ? It a massive business the product is football and the goal is to make as much money as you can from the people who buy the product. Read JohnnyLynch for further elaboration. Good on you Pete that's dissed all the fans and that just leaves you and Jamie as the last men standing. The true heroes of the club... er yes.

  80. Pete

    Oct 03, 2014, 15:24 #58455

    I'm sure most so called fans these days are only interested in the boring politics.Whinging about this and that just because we're not winning the league every year.If you want the Emirates to be full of knuckle draggers from the 80's and pea all over the terraces go and watch grass roots.You can't blame Wenger for progress.You're the ones who are always moaning about money not being spent and then moan about the rich who supply it. Hypocrites the lot of you.

  81. Mark Halfpenny

    Oct 03, 2014, 14:43 #58454

    Johnny Lynch - best reply I've seen on The Gooner website. The Match Day Experience as it's jokingly called is like a night out in North Korea!

  82. Donkey

    Oct 03, 2014, 14:24 #58453

    Re justanotherarse the "data management" company to which he refers is acalled AOH-USA LLC and is 100% owned, albeit indirectly, by Arsenal. The £3m advisory fee was paid to KSE LLC, a company ultimately owned and controlled by SK.

  83. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 03, 2014, 14:14 #58452

    Your right Mark asking questions and wanting answers (truthful ones that is)is not being disloyal but some think it is, and no doubt will accuse you of it, they're the sheep of the fan base. Yes by all means get all those groups to unite but to concentrate on One and Two, then the seven questions you posed, well the three or four that most fans care about the most anyway among others would look after themselves.

  84. jjetplane

    Oct 03, 2014, 14:06 #58451

    Well said Johnny as always. Every other voice sounds like a pathetic plea to join the status quo in any little middle class fashion it can. Never been to the EMIrates, went to my first game in the mis 60s as they were my local club (down the road) and never got around to an ST till just before Wenger turned up. Chucked it in 2004 and have never regretted it. Could see what was coming and what I have seen of 'the new experience' on you tube and elsewhere makes me shudder with the barreness of it all. Not quite Friday night lights or saturday afternoon shout fests. Sits in a vacuum where people can go for a quazi-sports experience and the players are as far away as they are inaccessible. Now watching affordable county league football and it really has got me going again. The banter and knowledge on match days is a joy to behold and the appreciation for hard working people who just love the game is fantastic. This is not rose tinted as we watch clubs go to the wall while working on the slimmest of budgets. Will be there tomorrow as we have 'a big one' (crowd of 200) and the place will be buzzing. Do not miss the 'big lights' and was never a big fan of Wenger and it is not a personal thing it is presently a waste to see some of the present talent at Arsenal go through misguided motions and until they run out of steam and invention. It is happening on a more regular basis and the buck stops with the non-footballing culture that has upended the club. It is obviously what is desired and it is an unquestionable cash cow unless a few more like me (Dodos anyone) 'walk the walk' and see what the suits will do then. For one more goal .......

  85. Ozzie

    Oct 03, 2014, 13:51 #58450

    Blimey, all this over a.....football club???

  86. Gus Caesar

    Oct 03, 2014, 13:41 #58449

    Surely if there was a genuine wish for fans' groups to work together as one unified force for good there wouldn't be the amount of groups that there are now? Groups such as BSM were created because its founders didn't agree with the views or methods of the other groups and wanted to go it alone. Realistically you're p!ssing in the wind expecting these groups to now put their own precious reputations and bravado to one side and work together on a number of fronts. That's not to say that the groups (or some of them at least) couldn't work together more often on certain agreed issues. That said, i'm not a member of any particular group and I doubt the majority of Gooners are. I have my own reasons for this and one of them it that i'm not at all impressed by any of the figureheads of the groups or how they campaign. Maybe the groups should each consider their own reputations before bemoaning other groups for not helping them. Maybe if each group was credible and didn't behave like hot-headed children so often there'd be more room for consensus.

  87. Johnny Lynch

    Oct 03, 2014, 13:28 #58447

    Please, don't make me laugh.. The true Arsenal supporter has long since vanished , overwhelmed by the Media type typified by Hornby and Morgan. You take a look around you at home games and it's the scenario that Wenger has been working on for years , ignorant people in red and white scarves , tourists with cameras and thousands of snobby children called Tristan .. The tiny majority from back in the day priced out up in the gods , a faint echo from the days when we were a working class club , a faint voice in Wenger's home.It never fails to make me laugh how people stump up the best part of a grand every year and then complain about the manager ad nauseum. Even the Editor here complains about Wenger yet in the next breath publicises his next book about him .. Honestly, it's a f*cking joke . In the 70's and 80's , this Arsenal would have been playing to a half empty Highbury forcing the boards hand, but all you lot do is come on here and whinge like girls.

  88. @justanotherarse

    Oct 03, 2014, 13:18 #58445

    A few year back Stan and AW went to see the end product of a "moneyballesque" data analysis company that focused on football players' performance etc. Stan apparently bought the company more or less on the spot. This was publicised heavily by Legrove as a positive thing. fast forward a few years and "assuming" that this company now has direct input into our transfer strategy as well as the other sports franchises that Stan owns: We have just had a transfer window where although we all feel we were 2 players short of what we needed(Def MF and CB), individually the players we bought seem to be hard-working very good players that are at least individually, successful transfers. This leads me to my point. Surely this data company does not exist in a vacuum and requires revenue to operate with an expectation of profit and as such is entitled to fees from the clubs/franchises it advises. If for example they told Arsenal that Alexis Sanchez was the the ideal player, and Chambers was the absolute best value in terms of talent/potential per £ or whatever metrics they use, is £3million advisory fees so out of bounds? If an outside agent was paid £3 mil for assisting the transfer, the fans would not have batted an eyelid. Now I know that the fee causing all the fuss was for the previous year but I assume rightly or wrongly that these analyses were provided to the club last year. It is also worth pointing out that this external company cannot enforce transfers and only offers advisory strategic data. Food for thought re the £3million fee

  89. Lee

    Oct 03, 2014, 13:09 #58441

    Im with the black scarf movement! all these other 'fan groups' are just PA's for the club and gazidis!

  90. Alan

    Oct 03, 2014, 13:07 #58440

    Why not stop beating round the bush and say it was AISA. Why did he say NO???, and we know who the he is. Out of interest where does all the money go for the annual fees they raise bar an odd pamphlet. One wonders. You should speak with darrenarsenal, Chris Hudson or Stuart Myers they had a lot of interaction with the club when the Arsenal Action Group were around. They dindt care about criticising and were still spoken to. **** AISA off, they offer ZERO in terms of representation of fans. Come together yourselves and move forward, its not like AISA mean anything to anyone.

  91. Highbury Harold

    Oct 03, 2014, 12:54 #58438

    Ignoring the whole Wenger issue and the divide it's driven into our fanbase, I'll respond on fan groups working together. On 2-3 occasions over the past year, we (the Black Scarf Movement) have sat down with representatives of AISA, AST, and REDaction to discuss the potential of joint working on certain campaigns / initiatives. The result of these meetings was that not all groups want to join forces. Certain individuals/ egos it seems don't want to risk the 'relationship' they have with the club or any potential negativity it could receive from their members. Personally I found it utterly ludicrous and sad that the main groups could not even come to an arrangement - not even for one topic or campaign. We at the BSM are open to working with others for the ultimate benefit of Arsenal fans - as we've done with groups from Liverpool, Man United, the FSF and elsewhere in achieving the Away Fans Initiative. Joint efforts generally hold more weight but it seems that egos are destined to ruin that chance at Arsenal.

  92. REDaction

    Oct 03, 2014, 12:50 #58436

    I thought I would reply here so everyone can see the response. All of the groups mentioned above met in September 2013 with the intent of getting together to tackle certain club wide issues. The first one was the most recent (at the time) ticket price increase, and a good starting point would be to create something of a 'press release' condemning the latest price rises as unnecessary, in light of improved commercial deals and (at the time) limited outlay on transfer fees. This was deemed as fairly straight forward by most of those present, with a 'how can you not disagree with ANOTHER price rise?' type response, but one of the main groups present would not commit to this without another meeting with all members of their own committee. At a later date, we were told that said committee voted against putting their name to this press release for unknown reasons. Therefore, it was felt that all of the groups voting in favour were unable to proceed without the 100% commitment from all groups, as it would not encapsulate ALL groups and therefore the effect would be diminished. This is the main reason why the various groups felt we could not proceed with this 'joint effort' as it was anything but. RH REDaction chairman 2014-2015

  93. Unchives

    Oct 03, 2014, 12:48 #58434

    Firstly, Kronke hasn't put a penny into the club, and having paid approx £12k per share, which is now nearer £20k per share and climbing, he doesn't have to do anything and is free to take as much money as he wants, there is nothing we can do about that. I wont and don't pay the ticket prices anymore if the money isn't being spent on the team, indeed my x2 Gold season tickets went 4 seasons ago, so I have done something about how I feel,I think I got it right! As for arranging a joint meeting with all the Arsenal fan bases, the AST arrange one every season with Ivan Gazidis who cleverly has a 30 minute speech covering most of what is to be broached on, so when the direct questions are fired at him, he suggest that the question has already been answered. Secondly, the questions are filtered by AST who are the biggest load of S..t! who make no direct challenge to the answers from the said CEO. I quit the AST too. Now they invite other team fan bases too, what is it a Beer festival? As for Arsene, he will be with us until both Pep Gurdiola & Kloop are available, so I guess we will have to wait. Lets get behind the team until then. Forced changes only happen through demonstration as people have the power in all industries.

  94. Daryl

    Oct 03, 2014, 11:59 #58431

    Well, that's six minutes of my life I'm not getting back.

  95. chris dee

    Oct 03, 2014, 11:55 #58430

    Good read. Our club captain was allowed to leave for £14 million cause he was a liability and always injured.He has yet to start a game for Barcelona. Many interesting points but there is a bottom line to all the problems.To paraphrase Bill Clinton 'It's the results stupid '

  96. JAMIE

    Oct 03, 2014, 11:36 #58429

    We are mainly self-serving,publicity hungry and follower seeker selfish on here so I think we'll pass on this one,yet it does sound very interesting.

  97. will

    Oct 03, 2014, 11:19 #58426

    When he's gone then he will be missed and all the mind less will disappear like dust