Is this Arsenal squad strong enough?

If they can hang on until January and add then, just maybe…



Is this Arsenal squad strong enough?

Ospina: Genuine challenger to Szczesny’s place


With the new season now well and truly underway, Arsenal fans are beginning to see just how strong this year’s squad is, and whether it is one capable of challenging for honours come the end of the campaign. While the summer saw a number of exciting arrivals come through the door, a lot of Gooners couldn’t help but feel a sense of disappointment that certain areas of the squad weren’t addressed by Arsene Wenger and the Arsenal board.

The question is now whether or not this Arsenal squad is stronger than the one that won the FA Cup last season and while there have been more positives than negatives from the early stages of the year - especially in the Premier League - the real proof of what this squad is capable of will likely come after Christmas, when the landscape is much clearer. With hopes of challenging for honours on all fronts this season, any weakness in this squad will be exposed during the course of the year and we could find ourselves in the familiar position of watching on as Arsenal’s challenge dies and the season drifts to an unsatisfying climax.

Don’t get me wrong, the summer was a productive one in a lot of aspects. The inevitable departure of Bacary Sagna was cushioned by the arrival of Mathieu Debuchy, and Calum Chambers has already made more of an impact in his first three games than Carl Jenkinson did in three seasons. Alexis Sanchez has already proved his worth to the club by scoring the goal that saw the Gunners reach the Champions’ League group stage, and Danny Welbeck has produced some extremely encouraging performances since his deadline day move. But, despite this, the early stages of the new season have already left some asking why an out-and-out goalscorer wasn’t added to the squad during the summer.

But before we all start rushing to Betfair to back Arsenal to be in the mix for silverware come the end of the season, or lay your previously-confident bet on the Gunners winning a trophy or two, let’s have a closer look at the strength of the current squad.

Goalkeepers
Wojciech Szczesny has cemented himself as the Arsenal number one in recent years and the Polish stopper has started this year in impressive form behind a defence that have often needed him. Widely-considered to be one of the Premier League’s best young goalkeepers, Szczesny hasn’t really been pushed for his place over the past couple of seasons at the club but that may have changed this season. While the likes of Lukasz Fabianski and Vito Mannone never really threatened to displace Szczesny during their time at the club, the arrival of Colombian number-one David Ospina this summer means Wenger has a genuine alternative should the Poland international’s form drop at any point this season.

Defence
Adding strength in depth in defence had been one of Wenger’s most pressing concerns heading into the summer, but, rather than adding another one or two centre backs to the current crop, Wenger allowed Thomas Vermaelen to leave for Barcelona and only added two right backs to the squad. The signings of Calum Chambers and Mathieu Debuchy were smart pieces of business from Wenger, but the Frenchman’s failure to address the lack of depth in the middle of defence during the summer has already cost Arsenal this season. Aside from Laurent Koscielny and Per Mertesacker, Wenger finds himself in the incredible position of not being able to call upon any other established senior professional – not even a Pascal Cygan or a Sébastien Squillaci-type that have become synonymous with Wenger’s Arsenal during his long reign as manager. It certainly looks as though if anything is going to kill the Gunners’ chances of silverware this season, it’s going to be the lack of numbers in the centre of defence. Wenger will be hoping to still be in the mix for trophies by the time he has chance to strengthen the defence in the January transfer window, even if it means shelling out Ozil/Sanchez level transfer fees in order to sign a world-class centre-back.

Midfield
There is a decent argument to claim the Arsenal midfield is one of the most creative in the Premier League, if not Europe. With Jack Wilshere, Santi Cazorla, Mesut Ozil, Aaron Ramsey and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain at his disposal, Wenger knows he has enough attacking threat coming from his midfield to create plenty of chances and score plenty of goals this season. But all that attacking talent needs someone to do their dirty work, that “Claude Makélélé” type of player we’re all sick of hearing about - and the moment Wenger decided not to add a defensive midfielder to the squad might end up being the moment Arsenal’s hopes of being genuine title contenders vanished. Theoretically, Abou Diaby could do a decent job in that deep-lying midfield role, but with just 41 appearances to his name over the course of the past four seasons, Arsenal fans won’t be hanging their hat on the injury-plagued Frenchman. Mathieu Flamini has battled manfully since his return to the Gunners from AC Milan to prove he is the man to fill that role, but the Frenchman is yet to convince many he is the top class defensive midfielder this team really needs.

Forwards
While some will claim the club are still without a 20-goal-a-season striker, you’d be hard-pressed to find an Arsenal fan who would argue the attacking options available to Wenger this season aren’t significantly better than last year. If the signing of Sanchez from Barcelona sent a statement to the rest of the league, the deadline day move for Welbeck could end up being viewed as one of the best pieces of business done in the summer transfer window. The impending return to action of Theo Walcott will add another dimension to the Gunners’ attacking unit, and Lukas Podolski has begun to show glimpses that he may finally be coming good in an Arsenal shirt. And before we know it, Olivier Giroud will have recovered from his injury and Arsenal will have the attacking options capable of making up for the deficiencies elsewhere in the team, and Yaya Sanogo.

From the state of the current squad, it seems that the only thing stopping this Arsenal side from at least bettering last year’s performances will be the depth of the defence, but if the Gunners can stay in the hunt for silverware by January, some key squad additions could prove the catalyst for success at the club for a second successive season.


NEW! Subscribe to our weekly Gooner Fanzine newsletter for all the latest news, views, and videos from the intelligent voice of Arsenal supporters since 1987.

Please note that we will not share your email address with any 3rd parties.


Article Rating

Leave a comment

Sign-in with your Online Gooner forum login to add your comment. If you do not have a login register here.

180
comments

  1. JAMIE

    Oct 10, 2014, 9:45 #58990

    Only attend if we're winning!Want's the board to tell them where we are going to finish before buying season ticket!Don't care if we cheat like others as long as we win!Not interested in good football just winning! Who are these fans we have supporting Arsenal these days?

  2. BADARSE

    Oct 10, 2014, 7:58 #58989

    Morning all, bit of balance required methinks. It will at least draw the fire towards me and away from other 'innocents'. To compare eras is erroneous. Those fired in the same kiln would comfortably stand shoulder to shoulder radfordkennedy. I cannot imagine a situation where I wouldn't quietly, perhaps not so quietly if the occasion demanded, put down my drink and get up from the table and stand beside you. Those passages of time have slipped into the ether, and have disappeared. A person prepared to do that generally carries that blueprint in his/her DNA, and would stand up in pretty much most situations. Life has changed, become sanitized some might say, but it's inherently different to a world now passed. People and feelings have been altered, everything is transitory. All is moving, not going anywhere but in a state of flux all the same. The backs to the wall, 'three musketeers' mentality was traded off with agents and when clubs became businesses, and we joined this corporation called football. Sometimes we do reflect on yesterday, but to compare it with today in a literal sense is the wrong path to take , yes it's important on a note of survival-to learn from mistakes, or successful formulae-and to plan for tomorrow. That's what we should do. Then ask why people are so different, they haven't changed automatically, people are people and have the same equipment on board to be one type or another. The world has changed, things-football- will continue to evolve. We my friends are the dinosaurs, left behind, unable or unwilling to change, it causes much distress. Me? No different to anyone, but I have a suit of armour, (bought it from the Armoury on 'Sale', with a nice burnished glow of yellow and blue), and that deflects most arrows. It's an ability to practise at, and to learn. I am so used to change and it's ramifications they call me the chameleon.

  3. radfordkennedy

    Oct 10, 2014, 6:18 #58988

    Gbp...you're right mate you can't imagine Kos throwing Lazio players over car roofs like big John Roberts can you,or santi and Nacho going back to back and punching anything that moved like stroller and captain frank,pansies indeed

  4. DW Thomas

    Oct 10, 2014, 4:28 #58987

    GBP dare I say we actually agree? Winning the title in 2008 should,have happened yet we faltered big time. Had he won that year and the CL in 2006, Wenger would get very little stick today. Problem is it was his excuses that continue today that set the tone for failure. Sure Eduardo and RVP were out, but still we should have held strong. That was the beginning of the end of my support for Arsene. Sad end to an otherwise brilliant season that year.

  5. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2014, 23:38 #58986

    GBP, I've been to some humdinger Grannies parties, let me tell you, as well as those tear ups in M&S I spoke of yesterday. You haven't lived Young Gun, ha ha.

  6. GBP

    Oct 09, 2014, 22:25 #58985

    Ha. Hiccup, thats funny. Thing is a player only only has to fart down wind towards a ref these days and hes red carded.The aggression has been purged. The other thing is i can hear my late Dad saying the same thing as he used to recall football in the 30s and 40s and 50s to me as kid in the late 60s and early 70s. I d say Storey and Hunter et al were hard nuts and he d say, 'phhh, pansies who play with a plastic pill' ! I can hear him now, bless his soul. He d say ' id like to see that f-----r Mr Keane try his arm with such and such from Wolves or from Sunderland' etc etc etc or the odd Gunners tough nut from the 30s all of who used to scare the s--t out of me just by their descriptions! Perhaps football has a far longer sanitizing period than we actually think?

  7. Hiccup

    Oct 09, 2014, 22:13 #58984

    Good points Bard. When you look back at say the tunnel kick offs with United, we had guys there you'd want on your side. For all the cr@p he was, at least Pascal Cygan made up for it for not being a pansie. Look at our centre backs (all 2 of them). They're too bloody nice and friendly. Oh for the days where forwards used to dread playing against our defence. Not sure if my drink's been spiked tonight and I'm hallucinating, but I just heard Cazorla played at right back for Spain tonight? If wenger gets to hear about that, we're bolloxed!

  8. GBP

    Oct 09, 2014, 22:05 #58983

    Ive read some of the excerpts from Redknapps book. A loof what hes says tells us why the Keane and Paddy warrior mentality has gone from the game. Its a great shame. In such a short time the powers that be all of who have sucked the TV companies n-bs have created a sterile, 'touch football' insipid PG certificated, suitable for women and kids game. Its half the reason why the atmospheres in the grounds these days are like grannies tea party's im sure!

  9. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2014, 21:41 #58982

    I agree Bard, but then the ref would have sent Paddy off. Where is that jeff wright. He wouldn't like this, I won the cake tonight 5-0 guess and said at least one Arsenal man to score. Bonus was Jack was definitely MotM.

  10. Bard

    Oct 09, 2014, 21:15 #58981

    GBP, you might have an interesting idea there, but its worth checking out Le Grove he has some fascinating stuff about the set up, how true it is I dont know but youre right something is wrong. Guys been catching bits of the Roy Keane auto, he talks about wars with Paddy and going into battle with Bruce, Pallister. It got me thinking how many warriors have we got in the side. Maybe Jack, who else? Is this why we get bullied so easily? Sometimes in tight games you have to win ugly, we dont do ugly and perhaps thats why we get mullered by better sides who know we cant deal with it. Heres another question would Paddy have let Chelsea push us around last weekend? Not on your life he would have made it a proper war.

  11. Hiccup

    Oct 09, 2014, 20:21 #58980

    MG, you losing sleep over it too I see. Leave it to wenger to sort out. That's what he's paid for. I reckon there's a bargain or two to be had with some of these San Marino defenders. Half hour gone and still in the game.

  12. GBP

    Oct 09, 2014, 19:29 #58979

    Hi Bard lad. You cd be right. i never see those blogs. Tell you what though, on all these injuries i feel a big factor is the body type of todays footballers. All these tweaks, and calf pulls and hamstrings and achilles jobs etc. Theyre 'athletes'playing football. My step Son has been part of a good athletics Club for years. Hes 22 now and i see and hear of these injuries and they're all a mirror of the ones in his Club. The modern player is all highly taut and designed for pace and the price i wonder is a too highly honed body, incapable of taking the physical rigours that football brings ? Im no medic but these injuries hardly existed even 15 years ago? What do you reckon?

  13. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2014, 19:25 #58978

    You mean Sammy 'One Eye' Nelson, maguiresbridge?

  14. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 09, 2014, 19:17 #58977

    Oh alright then, Sammy Nelson has a grandson who is a great centre half who would go down well with the fans as he loves showing his arse.

  15. Bard

    Oct 09, 2014, 19:10 #58976

    GBP; You may be right about Eddie but we didnt. Its not my view that all the consternation about the direction of the club is confined to this site. Nearly all the Arsenal blogs I read are saying the same stuff more or less. Le Grove is even more vociferous, even the usually mild Arseblog has been having doubts of late. I am not suggesting thats a majority only that the so called Dark Moonies are not out in left field somewhere.

  16. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2014, 19:05 #58975

    Hi Hiccup, it's difficult to argue with your reasoned point. I do think it's different, as in a squad versus a first eleven though. The disparity you speak of within certain positions is valid, but does have extenuating circumstances. Injuries are a big contributing factor, and the considered weakness of some positions place extra emphasis whenever the injury toll becomes a crisis. Rightly or wrongly AW does seem to view the cover of some positions by some players a reasonable policy. Monreal as a back up in CH position, won't win him many friends, but I recognise the strategy, it's a big gamble, but only seems dramatically irresponsible through injuries and suspensions.

  17. Roy

    Oct 09, 2014, 19:02 #58974

    So Kos is struggling as well ??! You just know that Bellerin or Hayden or maybe Cocquelin will be forced into an extended run in the team. I can't believe this has been allowed to happen. As for the other end of the pitch, anyone else noticed Benik Afobe absolutely banging them in for fun at MK Dons ?

  18. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 09, 2014, 18:06 #58973

    Steve Morrow must have a lad also worth a look at, he's come in handy if Mertesacker wanted to lift somebody up and drop.

  19. GBP

    Oct 09, 2014, 17:07 #58972

    Hiccup - good points there. Wenger has been lax in forward positions you mention for some years. The saddest part was in 2008 when we had Ade RVP and Eddie and then both Eddie and RVP were lost so closely together and Ade ran out of puff. Ive always said he could have won the title that year had Eddie have not been poleaxed at Bham City. I do wonder if all of our differences on here would be as pronounced had we have bagged that title?

  20. Man United Killer

    Oct 09, 2014, 16:58 #58971

    As most of you may have heard, UEFA is going to implement new seeding procedures for the Champions League.This is long overdue.It will make individual leagues even more competitive and be more fair to teams who really deserve to be in pot 1 based on performance.Need I say Lord Wenger is going to be exposed for the true fraud that he is?

  21. Hiccup

    Oct 09, 2014, 16:36 #58970

    Baddie, the situation is no different to what it was 20 years ago with the squad. In fact it's worse. Yes if Wrighty or Henry were injured, it meant a lower calibre player coming in. But over the last 5 years, we've had pretty much one striker with no back up. If RVP ever got injured we had nothing. Adebayor was never replaced. Then when chamack came in it was him or bendtner. Same last season no cover for giroud. Bloody joke. And I know it's been done to death, but we have zero CB cover. So whereas 20 years ago the injuries were a concern because a lesser player would come in, now we're praying for no injuries in certain positions because there's absolutely nothiing to step in. GBP, fair enough. But if Chelsea's wage bill starts to exceed ours again, I'm sure it will be placed firmly back on the agenda again in defending wenger.

  22. GBP

    Oct 09, 2014, 16:18 #58969

    DJ - Sorry. Post 62268 was mine responding to yours of course. Hiccup - its pointless in my view, because of the lack of reliable info to properly interpret so to what extent the wage bills affect the 2 clubs performances. I know you maybe like to read a figure in the 'Sun' and then shout loudly your own version of it on here, but such figures usually paint only an insipid colour wash of the real underlying picture in my view.

  23. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2014, 16:15 #58968

    Bard and DJ, glad we agree on the subject. I don't think you'll ever get what you are looking for, so let it go. Read between the lines, and forget the words. It's why I am almost fastidious about them. The situation is quite obvious, you are both intelligent and understand the climate modern football exists in. As I keep hammering, those days are over. Someone, think it was a chat between maguiresbridge and it may have been Kilkenny cat, were drawing a comparison between yesteryear and today, it cannot, must not be done. Like for like comparisons are fine, but different permutations bring differing conclusions. They spoke of how they would be concerned if Wrighty was fit or not, and it doesn't register in the same way nowadays. Of course not. Today we play with a squad, not a team, so a missing player of a certain ability is replaced generally by one of similar qualities. I would say this and it's spoken truthfully, I am fiercely competitive, though am a stickler for fairness. They are not often in conflict, I will not forsake the principle of fairness. Defeats sting as they have always stung. Just thought I'd put that out there. I think you could deduce that with a bit of weighing and sifting of words, I mean who openly boasts of being the best rice maker in the world? ha ha.

  24. DJ

    Oct 09, 2014, 16:07 #58967

    I think all successful teams need to use the dark arts. Our best teams under Wenger certainly knew the ropes. Chelsea play football at the edge of the rules as GGs teams did. People have a go at Chelsea but its hypocritical, esp for Arsenal fans to do so. I quite like to see my team show they ll do what it takes provided its not causing serious injury to opponents. We ve lacked it for years. Young players dont know it and by the time ours learn it, they re usually in another Clubs shirt sadly!Is it all AWs fault? Thats the issue.

  25. Hiccup

    Oct 09, 2014, 16:07 #58966

    So for the last 5 years all we've had rammed down our throats is that Chelsea have a higher wage bill. This has been the First Commandment of the AKB bible. Now Arsenal have surpassed them, we are told the wage spend comparative is pointless? You couldn't make it up...

  26. DJ

    Oct 09, 2014, 15:34 #58965

    GBP: Very good post which makes valid points. Two outstanding young managers in world football at the moment are Kloop and Simeone and if I was given the choice I would choose Kloop. Simeone reminds me too much of a young Mourinho with all the dark arts that come with it. Kloop comes across mad as a box of frogs, or a bit of character as you will, but his teams play progressive, attacking football with plenty of young guns.

  27. GBP

    Oct 09, 2014, 15:01 #58964

    I think arguing about wage spend comparatives is pointless. We don't know how the clubs differentiate between who gets the big pay and who doesn't and we dont know the wage bill effects of Chelsea loanees either.However, what we do know in my view is that Chelsea have bought well and it has to be said that they've bought better, stronger and more durable players than we have. Im guessing the pay taken by a Costa there is massive compared to the lesser lights (such as they may be called that) in the team and to be honest, that's how it should be. I don't think Arsenal have had such differences to a great enough extent. The so called major players haven't earned much more than the non producers. I cant be sure of this but it seems a reasonable assumption. Mourinho comes across as an odious man, but i guess privately off a footie field hes maybe OK. He seems a good family man. Fact is, hes very impressive as a Coach and Chelsea are as a team. Hes bolder than AW in my view and puts winning at the top of his agenda. AW puts his 'philosophy' where winning should be. I think it was 'Ron' who once said philosophy should remain in University libraries, not football Clubs dressing rooms. I agree with that to the greater extent.Maybe Mourinho is hungrier because his job depends on it? Is it his age though or is it just him as a man? I dont know, but back AW as i do, he s not in Mourinhos league now as a Coach. JM has seen it all and done it all at massive Clubs who want to own the World tomorrow so he will be better wont he? Hes managing a little village store compared to what hes experienced. When AW does go, i think the Club need a man of the same mettle to be honest.

  28. Charlie Geoge Orwell

    Oct 09, 2014, 14:33 #58963

    Westlower: Hallelulah, I've seen the light! never knew it was so easy. Am off now to bribe Joe Hart into conceding 17 tonight - what a packet I'll make! badarse: if you want oh so clever quotes, how about 'Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise'. And my, there none more foolish than those who think they're clever. Sorry to bore the rest of the posters here - I'll finish now and go play online Bingo. apparently I get a free £10 game if I sign up for £20...

  29. Westlower

    Oct 09, 2014, 14:26 #58962

    @Andy1886, CFC were able to do the best business of the summer selling an unwanted player in David Luiz for £50m. That move alone enabled them to buy Costa, Luis, Cesc & Remy without breaching FFP rules. I bet they couldn't believe their luck? Don't be fooled by our wage bill being higher than theirs as they've got 26 players out on loan to keep within FFP guidelines. Where they & Man City benefit over AFC is that we give young players a chance to develop their careers in the first team. They tend to only play the finished article.

  30. DJ

    Oct 09, 2014, 14:09 #58961

    Baddie: Of course you’re right and I don’t expect the club to issue a statement like that. However, it would be interesting to hear what the clubs objectives are at the start of the season. We all love football for the unpredictable nature of it and I feel Arsenal have become just a little too predictable in recent seasons?

  31. Bard

    Oct 09, 2014, 14:09 #58960

    Baddie we have had this discussion before and I agree with you that it obviously cannot be made explicit. Perhaps what I am asking for is for the club not to rub our faces in it quite so much. Westie, sorry I disagree about all the money arguments. There was truth to it but you could also argue that it was an excuse for keeping expectations down. After all BD and Athletico manage to put a dent in the big guns. We now have a wage bill twice the Spuds and bigger than Chelsea. Our record against the top sides over the last 4 seasons is appalling. And it will be something of a miracle to win anything after only 7 games this season. If you feel that is value for Petes 2k season ticket then we have different values. The late lamented Ron argued rightly in my opinion that if you pay top dollar to see a play you dont expect the actors to keep forgetting their lines or words to that effect.

  32. CT Gooner

    Oct 09, 2014, 13:55 #58959

    But Badarse, if they said it then folks could decide if the season ticket represents value. Instead, they dream of their manager fixing the gaping holes and go through the early part of the season with every limb crossed just hoping for success. Unfortunately they also feel that they can argue their belief is real, and accuse those that disagree as "spuds" or Chavs". Honesty at least would set the record straight.

  33. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 09, 2014, 13:51 #58958

    Has Eddie Mc Goldrick no sons worth scouting or maybe his sons son?

  34. andy1886

    Oct 09, 2014, 13:50 #58957

    Westlower, as we've outspent Chelsea since Jose returned last summer and now we hear also have a higher wage bill then they do, at what point do we become the monied club and Chelsea become the plucky little also rans? While you're at it perhaps you can explain Arsene's assertion that finance, specifically that spent on Costa (£32m) and Hazard (£30m) decided the game last week whereas the likes of Ozil (£42m) and Sanchez (£35m) did not?.

  35. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 09, 2014, 13:35 #58956

    jj, Abou Abou sore all over, good one, he may be one of our players but just like our medical department he's become a joke too.

  36. DJ

    Oct 09, 2014, 13:19 #58955

    Westlower: I don’t think anyone disagrees with your assessment this season. Occasionally though, there is a chink of light where a less financial resilient club (not going to say smaller!) has a chance of breaking through for a season, ie: Liverpool and A Madrid last season. That’s were we missed the boat last January with another farcical transfer window. Leading the table and just needing a couple of quality additions to really have a crack we ended up with Kalstrom! For me that showed the where Kronke and Wenger’s ambition really lay and why some of the supporter unrest is justified. Competing against the financial heavyweights is hard enough without being too timid or satisfied to try.

  37. kilkenny cat

    Oct 09, 2014, 13:17 #58954

    Gpb. Heard those rumours like that too. Yes at that time everyone had a decent keeper and chs. Nowadays everyone wants to be the superstar.

  38. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2014, 13:13 #58953

    DJ do you seriously think or expect AFC to openly state at the start of the season, that which is glaringly obvious, and counter productive? 'Here is a bulletin from AFC just in. Please do not expect us to aspire to accomplish anything more than scraping fourth place and a recurring CL place, and perhaps a reasonable run in a domestic cup, and at least gaining an advance from this season's CL group stage.' That is a realistic target, but why say it? It would destroy morale and damage the chances of what the statement had set out to proclaim. I can see it without being told as such, if you couldn't, then you can now. If my grandson faces a higher placed team in a cup competition should his manager tell the lads not to expect to win? I don't think you are so naeve, I just don't think you have thought through what you posted. And no Bard, they don't think you are stupid, they don't say it for the very reason just outlined to DJ. Anyway not saying something can never be a lie, it can only ever be something not spoken. For you and myself it is nothing more than an unspoken thought, and an understanding of the circumstances that prevail. You know the reason, so where is the problem?

  39. kilkenny cat

    Oct 09, 2014, 13:01 #58952

    Badarse. Agree only talent matters nothing else. Dont care if we had 11 martians as long as they are good enough.

  40. Westlower

    Oct 09, 2014, 12:49 #58951

    @Bard Any target set has to be achievable as there's no point setting one that is out of reach. Do any of us on here believe we can finish higher than 3rd or 4th this season? It is so obviously a two horse race between the dominating rich clubs. We live in hope we can improve enough to challenge the two new giants of English football. Before the Russian & Oil money flooded into our game, who would have thought that Man U, AFC & Liverpool would be outsiders for the PL title? Poor Daniel Levy & Joe Lewis have been busting a gut trying to make top 4 & are no nearer to achieving it.

  41. Bard

    Oct 09, 2014, 12:47 #58950

    DJ ;completely with you on that. Its the lie that does me in. They think we are all too stupid to be able to see it. Others rightly argue that this is modern football and get over it. My argument is that others try to be more competitive even though they have a business model of sorts.

  42. Westlower

    Oct 09, 2014, 12:32 #58949

    CG Orwell, You asked if one individual can alter the result of a team game? Yes, he's called the referee! GK's have their dodgy moments also, remember Bruce Grobbelaar?

  43. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2014, 12:26 #58948

    Charlie George Orwell, we learn, or we choose not to.

  44. charlie George Orwell

    Oct 09, 2014, 11:55 #58947

    Sigh...Yeah, all these gambling organisations are there for our benefit.

  45. Stevo433

    Oct 09, 2014, 11:26 #58946

    I doubt there is anything wrong with Ozil, three months sounds a very convenient time span so he will be fit for his transfer to Bayern in January.

  46. DJ

    Oct 09, 2014, 11:05 #58945

    Bard: That is the conundrum we find ourselves in. If Arsenal was just a business we would laud Wenger as a genius and have open top bus parades down Threadneddle Street every year. The trouble is we are also a football club and from my view the owners are trying to disassociate themselves from your ordinary, everyday punter while embracing the shareholders and corporate follower. While I personally think Arsene should have gone after the 8-2 drubbing at OT where due to our chaotic transfer policy we put out the worst Arsenal team in Wenger’s reign, I understand the pro Wenger crowd who argue what a great job he has down keeping us competitive while battling financial constraints. However, we are over the worst now and have money to spend, not Chelsea, Man City money but a certain amount that could improve our squad and sadly Arsene seems reluctant to spend it. If, as you imply, his target set by Kronke is just to finish fourth that should be made public at the start of the season and at least us supporters would be aware of the club’s ambition before we renew our season tickets at first place prices!

  47. GBP

    Oct 09, 2014, 10:32 #58944

    Kilkenny - i was working up in the North East a lot back in 04. All the talk then just before Xmas time was that Given was as good as Arsenals. Why it never happened is anybodys guess. He was an excellent keeper then. A little on the short side i thought but very good wasn't he. Hes probably still superior to Szezney!Like CBs though, there are few good keepers around nowadays. There was a time when nearly all of the Clubs in the top league had very good keepers.

  48. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2014, 10:22 #58943

    Charlie George Orwell, westlower wouldn't mention it, but get a read of Barney Curley's book, 'The Sure Thing'. I never gamble, but this was a 'must read' book. He advised I read it, and did-I am the richer for it. It will not only confirm your generally jaundiced view of horse racing, and it's ramifications, but give you a positive insight into the man Curley, and if you are perceptive enough also that of westlower. You might like the book as well as the other two after reading it, as I did.

  49. Bard

    Oct 09, 2014, 9:59 #58942

    Baddie I dont know whether its a smokescreen more shorthand. What our incompetence will mean practically for me is that I wont bother to go and watch the dross, but will pitch up for the big games so I can watch the Falcaos of this world. However as the season is over as far as winning anything is concerned it will be an empty experience all round. Westie of course the Yanks want results but financial ones not trophies. Wenger delivers the money. In racing parlance as long as the horse earns the money who cares where it comes.

  50. JAMIE

    Oct 09, 2014, 9:55 #58941

    Do you have a sponge for a head Bard.All this chasing skirt you seem to do is affecting your mind.The WIB (Wob Inventions Bureau) will be expecting far better from you or like poor old jeff Wright you can expect a P45 in the post.You may need to attend one of DW's master of illusion seminaries or Hiccup and maguires create a crisis conferences.

  51. radfordkennedy

    Oct 09, 2014, 9:54 #58940

    AMG....post number 62205..my thoughts exactly mate because if i didnt know better id of checked his left hand and left foot cos it sounds like a self inflicted blighty one to me....seriously though and im sure there's someone on here who knows more about this subject than me,but with the amount of ligament and muscle injuries we have(not including impact injuries)is there a case for someone analysing the root cause,is it the artificial weave pitches?,the studs/boots design or a mix of both?.I know we have a new fitness team but there has to be a LCD to all these injuries....

  52. Charlie George Orwell

    Oct 09, 2014, 9:42 #58939

    Westlower: I would no more put money on a horse than I would on a boxing match. Both are mired in underhand manipulation. It's true to say there's instances of fixing in football, but surely not at the same scale. Can individuals alter the actual result of a team game? Individuals can alter the result of a fight or a race. What I do say is the average person is done up like a kipper when it comes to betting on the horses. I also say that there's a disgraceful mass feeding-frenzy media lunge by gambling organisations who deliberately sucker people into debt. Cue visions of happy, beautiful, successful young people - Get your free bet here! I saw a TV documentary once where an English professional gambler said he placed only 6 or 7 bets on the horses A YEAR. There's a reason for that - the game's bent and he only bet on what he knew to be sure things. 6 or 7 against how many hundreds of races? To endorse gambling is vile.

  53. ALAN WHIFFIN

    Oct 09, 2014, 9:25 #58938

    The squad is definitely not strong enough at the back particularly midfield defensive where both Arteta and Flamini are to old small and slow,but how long has that been the case.The manager is the problem !

  54. Westlower

    Oct 09, 2014, 9:00 #58937

    @CG Orwell - Bit desperate going back to Sid James quotes. Today's racing is no more crooked that football, probably less so in my experience. You seem to be stuck in a time warp as bookies DO go broke with most some reliant on Fixed Odd Terminals (fruit machines) to make them a decent profit. The great thing about racing is you have to take responsibility for your own actions. There is no scapegoat manager to blame?

  55. JAMIE

    Oct 09, 2014, 8:43 #58936

    Bard-Your competing theory doesn't stand up,as in the Chelsea game there was very little between the teams in fact Arsenal were the better football team Chelsea better at simulation and cleverness which sadly counts for a lot in the modern game.Finsbury Boy makes a good point about the champions league in fact there's only really Madrid,Barca,Bayern and possibly Chelsea who the bookies consider contenders with Arsenal normally top eight does that mean nobody bar the favourites should turn up.If you took that line of thinking Atletico Madrid shouldn't have bothered competing for the Spanish title last season and if Arsenal didn't make the top four you wobs would go into complete melt down anyway.

  56. Westlower

    Oct 09, 2014, 8:36 #58935

    @Bard, Yanks don't tolerate people who don't hit their annual targets & Wenger would be out of work pretty damn quick if the club slipped back at anytime during his tenure. To date he's delivered all that's been asked of him. In my opinion I can't think of too many other managers who would have achieved as much. Certainly Bertie Mee & GG would have struggled with the stadium move & keeping us top 4. They both dipped out of contention on numerous occasions & they had McLintock & Adams as their captains.

  57. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2014, 8:32 #58934

    Morning Bard. Firstly, no such thing as an AKB-that is a smokescreen. So next aspect of the post. The word 'settle' and the phrase 'not good enough in my book', is suggestive of a lower standard elsewhere, amongst these imaginary AKB's perhaps? A large part of sport? No, my friend virtually the whole part of sport to me is winning or losing, but with acceptance of the realities of the contest, nothing more than that. Simple, isn't it? You personally take no pleasure in losing if an unreal chance of winning abounds? Well OK, but where do you go from here? You recognise we have practically nil chance of winning anything already, so then what? A dire, 'waste of time' season awaits for you, does it? Not for me. I live with some sort of hope, but will enjoy every ball that's kicked, every goal scored, and anticipate a change of fortune somewhere along the way, particularly on the injury front-and a lot of nonsense espoused on this site about that too. That isn't to say I don't share a number of your observations and recognised shortcomings of AFC, I do. Yet I also see a brighter more illuminated version of this squad's prospects. Must shy away from this light and dark theme before the howling begins-too late, I hear those anguished whines already emanating from some quarters. Incidentally, it doesn't make me a fence-sitter either, just because I hold this outlook, that too is a smokescreen.

  58. Charlie George Orwell

    Oct 09, 2014, 8:31 #58933

    Weslower: Ah, yes - one's finest judgement calls are all that are needed when placing your stake at the races. Certainly no skullduggery, cheating, deliberate poor performance or drug use in the Sport of Kings. As Sid James' character in 'Carry On At Your Own Convenience' replied to his wife when accused of continually losing his money on bets, despite spending hours studying the form: 'Can I help it if the horses aren't running scientifically.' Lots of rich bookies and trainers, lots of poor punters. Funny that....

  59. Bard

    Oct 09, 2014, 8:21 #58932

    Westie, I get that but how would it look if you always got paid out whether you got it right or wrong, thats where we are with Wenger and have been for quite a while.

  60. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2014, 8:12 #58931

    Good morning maguiresbridge and kilkenny cat, think you have overlooked Brendan and Sean's younger brother Mesut, one of the O'zil boys. As previously stated, I wasn't a fan of breaking down all the nationality barriers at the PL's inception. I thought it would destroy the national side, which I no longer give a hoot about, though it has, but more intrinsically damage the identity of English football, which always accommodated players from the British Isles. It has that too-but with hindsight, an understanding long since fashioned, I have realised that was unimportant, it's like virtually everything, just get used to a novel introduction, and very quickly it becomes a part of existence. I can see a simple need to identify with a countryman in a small way, but personally I would rather Arsenal won the league with no Englishmen, than come second with a squad full of them. It's not contending your point, just suggesting it's no big deal. When Given was up for sale he wanted big wages, then acquired a long term serious injury immediately after. Glad we just stepped aside of that one.

  61. Westlower

    Oct 09, 2014, 8:07 #58930

    @Bard, If you really want to get into winning & losing get yourself to Newmarket races on Saturday. It's a great litmus test for finding out how good your judgement is, because there's no one to blame only yourself. Get it right & you get rewarded, get it consistently wrong & you go skint. Thankfully for Gooners, AW is our punter & he hasn't looked like going skint yet!! @Bob Your being to harsh on the English players. Off course JW has stepped in to replace a retiring player, that's how life works. Ox will prove you wrong.

  62. declan Burke

    Oct 09, 2014, 7:41 #58929

    I and many Arsenal fans don't trust Sczesny.

  63. kilkenny cat

    Oct 09, 2014, 7:37 #58928

    Maguiresbridge. Only Coleman would get in,and maybe McCarthy would be a good squad member. Our national team is not great and we all know it. The one we missed out on was Shay Given. He was the best keeper in the prem for a number of years and should have played for a top 4 side. Id love to see some young Irish blood in our squad,but i dont think it will happen.

  64. Bard

    Oct 09, 2014, 7:16 #58927

    Finsbury boy, at the risk of causing a ruckus that breaks the fragile truce here, the point has never been about winning anything, thats a story put out by the AKBs, the point is trying to compete. Creating sides that settle for top half mediocrity is not good enough in my book. I repeat 4th place isnt a trophy in any sense other than it gets us more money. Baddie I can see your point of view but for me a large part of my enjoyment of sports is about the contest and winning or losing. I just cant take pleasure from losing if there is in reality no proper contest. Anyway all this is academic the season is 7 games old and we have practically nil chance of winning anything. Over to Westie for the odds.

  65. Bob

    Oct 09, 2014, 6:55 #58926

    The trouble is that the best of our England players are a shade below top, top quality. Wellbeck and Wally (when fit) are clearly now understudies to Sturridge and Sterling. Wilshere seems to have found a slot alongside Henderson but only since Gerrard's retirement. The Ox is bench fodder. Chambers (admittedly young and Gibbs are nowhere near the team. There's no point recruiting Englishmen simply to fill a FIFA quota.

  66. julesd

    Oct 09, 2014, 5:25 #58925

    @DWT, Maybe Ozil's injury has something to do with playing all summer without a break in World Cup?

  67. Edmund

    Oct 09, 2014, 1:31 #58924

    If the team puts up a great show against Hull, I suspect training time under Roy would have done something for half the squad.

  68. A Cornish Gooner

    Oct 09, 2014, 1:00 #58923

    You're up late Baddie.

  69. DW Thomas

    Oct 09, 2014, 0:56 #58922

    Wenger's muppets continue their chantings before their hero. Ozil now injured most likely due to being overplayed. Ramsey out. Didn't buy Cesc. Boy this club is turning dumb and dumber every day. What used to be eye opening, astounding, now is just Groundhog Day. We fans take it like mugs. The injury problem has been argued to death. I think we all can agree now something is seriously wrong within the club on that front. The club simply refuses to awaken to its problems. The No Trophy Train motors on!

  70. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2014, 0:32 #58921

    Very valid observation Finsbury Boy, succinct and to the point. When a sapling grows and separates into two branches, they are still very close together but always moving further away as they grow. As 'Chance' the gardner might explain. So too are those slightly different viewpoints of any issue. Eventually becoming as adversarial as circumstances allow and dictate. The moment when the thoughts or understandings split, and took different routes is lost, it's just somewhere way back. Most issues are now oppositional in their own right. The viewpoints have taken on a life of their own, governing and to a certain extent controlling the individual. It is convenient to reduce. An issue becomes smaller, more punchy, easier to grasp and understand, yet often the finer nuances are misplaced or ignored. Reductionism! It is everywhere and seeps into everyday life, it is to be mistrusted at best. It hampers independent thought, causes a blindness, and if others join the throng it attaches the herd instinct to it's already overloaded importance. If everything is about winning, (competing is substituted as a more user-friendly term to avoid crassness), then their are huge disappointments in store. In most things in life we lose, and it's relentless. The girl doesn't like us, disappointment. She does for a while, but wait, she goes off with another, deep despair. The car gets scratched, the router goes on the blink, you get a toothache, a sore throat, you are being made redundant, you're getting older! Football is the escape, leastways it was, now it's marketed, it's a business, yet we hang onto the threads of what it was and what it used to mean to us. A bygone age, close enough that we can look over our shoulder and still see what it used to be, almost touch it, but it's being swallowed up in the mists. It's gone. It's a romance that has turned sour, the worst fate of any romance. It makes people spiteful and resentful, issues become clouded and logic takes up it's hat and walks out of the door. We do not begin a new season, enter any of the three cups on offer to win them. We enter because that's the game. We hope we are in with a shout but know that in genuine competition we are 20/1 against winning the title, only westlower knows the odds of winning the cups. We shorten those odds by our careful and professional business practises, using our status and wealth to good advantage usually, but they are far from perfect, or even acceptable on occasions, but they are our practises, and they get us to the point whereby those odds shorten dramatically. We are actually in with a shout, albeit a weak or feeble and quiet shout. To go beyond that is a desire, to work towards a better chance in competitions, for an improvement, and in a sensible and constructive manner, is admirable, but to demand it is foolish, and only heartache and angst await.

  71. Finsbury Boy

    Oct 08, 2014, 23:48 #58920

    Firstly no connection with Finsbury Joe. One of the general criticisms on here seems to be that there is no point in Arsenal getting into the Champions League every year because we can't win it. If we follow that to its conclusion then the champions league would consist of maybe 6 teams a season. The premier League 4 teams and the two cups maybe 6 teams no point in all the other teams entering, they have no chance of winning it.

  72. JAMIE

    Oct 08, 2014, 22:47 #58919

    Just admit it MARCUS,your real name is McTaggart,you're a kipper salesman from Lock Fyne Scotland.The giveaway is how you always say'our'You're a 'jock in a frock with a knife in his sock' got ya.

  73. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 22:43 #58918

    I'm pissed we haven't got an Irish man in there, after all the connection they've/we've had with the club. I was going to say I suppose we'd have to find one good enough first then realised could we not find one as good as sanogogo? giroud? or one with more to offer than diaby.

  74. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 22:21 #58917

    Hiccup 62208, hear where your coming from and still remember those days well, fretting and waiting nervously on the Friday to hear if there were any injuries, who was in or out and it would make our day with even a shout of yes when we heard we had none and wrighty, etc, etc, was available, because like you say, back then it mattered it mattered a fooking lot because we knew what we were about we knew what such players could/would give. Now does it matter who's out? or in? does any of us really care that Ozil won't be seen again for two or three months? or any player for that matter, is it going to make any difference like Wrighty, Adams, etc, etc would have.

  75. Paulo75

    Oct 08, 2014, 21:59 #58916

    Podolski showing glimpses of coming good? I must have missed them...

  76. BADARSE

    Oct 08, 2014, 21:04 #58915

    Evening GBP, to connect with jj he needs to know you are as switched on as an electric chair without the cable, just satellite TV, not a TV like Helen or Conchita, in fact not a 'con' or a 'cheater'. You have to savvy the lingo, talk the walk as we say on the roller coast er?, but not on a mobile in case you bump into a lamppost like Mr. has Bean, or you could walk the talk, which is a bit like letting your mouth run away with you, but slower. jj understands all this and acts as a Mr Mustard with a Professor Plum voice, especially in the library, but nowhere near the lead piping. You have to throw in a few things in a towel, like a serviette, vet, vet, vet! Think you can manage that? If it's the prison it's GBH, not GBP.

  77. Westlower

    Oct 08, 2014, 20:57 #58914

    @Marcus, The reason we have a few Englishmen & a Welshman is because the requirement of the 25 man squad is that 8 have to be home grown, with at least 4 coming through the Arsenal development system. Home grown being at a club affiliated to the FA or Welsh FA for a minimum of 36 months prior to being 21 years old.

  78. GBP

    Oct 08, 2014, 20:40 #58913

    Ha. JJ - Im just training myself to feel the love for you and Hiccup. Ive always had a soft spot for Bard, but my word isnt he a tart! Badarse - loved that post - funny!

  79. GBP

    Oct 08, 2014, 20:27 #58912

    Nice atmosphere on here today guys. Funny posts for sure! On the Ozil point, lets all be honest hes not been very good save the odd little cameo here and there. Be good to get Ox in there and give him a run. take Westies points about the young players needing a go but can see the points regarding under par english/British players too. Its good to see so many, but its true none will become world beaters as well. Ox is the best of the bunch. It could be the making of him now, even if it does only get him his dream move ultimately!!

  80. jjetplane

    Oct 08, 2014, 20:20 #58911

    Westie lovely post - is it part of the script for The Dad's Army rerun in the offing. Is OGL ready for a part - rabbit in the hole and all that but I guess we would be talking Ostrich in No Man's land. Seriously could be the making of a new top Arsenal if we play with seven players say and still whip Hull. Have they got a bigger squad than us/fan base? GBP great last post but think you may be drifting out of the light but as BADARSE is busy chasing Conchita/Jamie through cyberspace you should be OK. Must be the Chillies wot done him. Ozil/Ramsay off to 'the colony' for a few weeks. Me see big dollars Mr Stan and me see why Mr Arsene always smiling. Ramsay Spain no and Ozil to Italy with Pod leaving yes yes and Kallstrom (Khedira) coming but maybe sore back also enter Abou Abou with very sore all over yes and Calum now in open prison for assaults ordered by naughty bloke who likes to 'enter another man's box' Okkkkkk me now **** off to Lane or Bridge vich vay mista? BADARSE very funny on that ****ing goal! could have took it in the boat for Queen and Country.

  81. Rob

    Oct 08, 2014, 20:01 #58910

    It's strong enough all right. It's set up for the fourth placed Cup and that's it. Just like the last 8 seasons.

  82. WENGER MUST GO ASAP (MARCUS)

    Oct 08, 2014, 19:21 #58909

    Why did ozil come to arsenal??? Wenger is never ever again going to win the pl. I have no doubt about that. He made a big mistake and in my opinion being made a scape goat. Wilshere and the likes our not good enough for arsenal. English players in general our not good enough it's a FACT!!! Reality only sets in when they don't win nothing at the euros or lose in first rounds at the World Cup. If England could not win nothing with Gerard and Lampard who were both in their primes world class players, they have no chance of winning anything with Wilshere and Henderson in the middle of the park. Some folks might call me negative nahhh I'm just a REALIST!!! Wenger has gone down this root of bringing through English players who our not good enough. Let's go through this English core shall we: Gibbs: he would not start for Chelsea not City fact, Wilshere: he would not start for Chelsea not City either, welbeck: the same: etc who know where I'm going with this lool. Now veria in he's prime starts for both those teams, Henry in he's prime does to, well what I'm trying to say is that Wenger last pl winning team, at least 5 to 6 of those players would start for either man city or Chelsea. WE LACK QUALITY!!! All over the pitch. Some of these players might look against a awful galatasary team oh we'll. Galatasary won't come close to winning the champions league. What I'm saying is that Wenger has gone down the wrong path of this English core nonsense. I don't care where a player is from he could be from Timbuktu, if he is good enough to play for arsenal. I DONT CARE

  83. Hiccup

    Oct 08, 2014, 19:18 #58908

    When we used to have a football club, you'd spend all week fretting if Wrighty or Henry might be doubtful for the upcoming game. Checking the news if they were likely to be fit. But back then it really mattered as we were in the hunt for trophies. Any injuries for the last 5 years has affected our assault on 4th place, the be all and end all. Injuries in this day and age has far more reaching consequences.

  84. Danny

    Oct 08, 2014, 18:53 #58907

    OZIL out for 12 weeks! In my opinion a true blessing in disguise for us. The team has been carrying this failure since his arrival

  85. Hiccup

    Oct 08, 2014, 18:50 #58906

    Lord Froth, I too go through a similar experience at work. For the last God knows how many years, when I've suggested he needs to go, they look at me gone out as if I'm crackers. Some even go off at a tangent like some on here with why they think he's done miracles? And then when you go to work after being thrashed 8-2 and a total squad of 10 players which included Traore, they come over gobsmacked. "What happened there?" And the same sh!t happens after the 5 or 6 goal thrashings. I now ask them if they can explain what the f*ck is happening, and guess what, they're all left spluttering with no answers.

  86. AMG

    Oct 08, 2014, 18:48 #58905

    How does Ozil get injured for 12 weeks without putting himself about at all? Strange one!

  87. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 18:38 #58904

    BADARSE, good one, he's lucky the water bottle wasn't a bed pan or he'd been in it a lot more.

  88. Bard

    Oct 08, 2014, 18:31 #58903

    Smithy, you beat me to it mate. I spotted an opening, I couldnt do a worse job. How did they not spot it before he went on inter duty. Is it bad luck or incompetence? At the risk of flogging a dead horse, I heard on the grapevine that Helen has been working part time in the medical dept. I can vouch for her being very handy in that dept. Are they faking it so they can take advantage of her flexibility and dexterity? I dont know whether to laugh or cry.

  89. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 18:28 #58902

    Hiccup, yes it's beyond a joke now something's seriously wrong (as if we didn't know that already) but it'll be shrugged off alright, just like everything else, maybe he wears the wrong hair gell, or his nail varnish is the wrong colour, there'll always be something/someone else to blame. But we all know a good place to start and we'll not be to far away.

  90. Lord Froth

    Oct 08, 2014, 18:02 #58901

    Hiccup, the injury list is leaving me with a twitching eye like Chief Inspector Dreyfuss in the Pink Panther films. At work this week I've been sitting eating lunch and get a constant stream of colleagues coming up to me and asking what I thought of last Sunday's result. I've then got to try and be reasonable and say 'Yeah, well, you know, etc...' and not let them know that I was having a most cromulently spiffing day up to the point that they came along and disturbed me and reminded me about what happened and that now I'm quietly seething. There's also a guy in my building that supports Arsenal and he's one of those ones that think that saying it loud makes it right and he won't hear anything said against Wenger. He seems to think that we won't be able to get a better manager post-Wenger even though every year every top manager wins their respective league except Wenger. I don't understand how people can't see that Wenger is one of the top paid managers in world football and with our infrastructure and the wages on offer for a manager how we won't be able to attract a top class one and we'll somehow end up with Steve Wigley.

  91. BADARSE

    Oct 08, 2014, 18:01 #58900

    In bright but wintery north London, Willie Wenger hits on a new tactic, 'For, for, to...', he stutters. It makes his temples throb. He is in his factory at Ashburton Grove so he goes to lay down for a while, sadly all the nursing cots in his factory's medical department are occupied. 'Morning sir.', squeaks one employee, Dee Arby. 'Another injury, Dee? Strained your back lifting your wage packet?' 'No sir, godda cold. Some said I was too slow to catch a cold, but I did sir.', he says proudly. Willie wanders past the coughing and wheezing group of employees, they resemble a sick league of nations, Welsh, German, Spanish, French; he shakes his head-his eyes begin to rattle, and he accidentally kicks over a water bottle beside a bed. He then tries to collect his thoughts, his fingernail clippings, and his toothbrush, and makes for his office. He shall hide five gold members season tickets in Gooner fanzines, as he knows how much the readers are well-informed, erudite fans. Once they have mastered the art of opening the fanzine, they shall extract the tickets and declare themselves 'winners', a sense they are familiar, and identify with, thanks to me, thinks Willie, his temples are throbbing more painfully now. 'Opposable thumbs they might have, but...', Willie reflects on the readership. One little boy, an unknown and secretive child, known only as DM, wins a ticket and hurries to the Grove, along with some other lucky children. 'Hello sir, I love chocolate and many years ago was awarded the CDM, but as I have never been to sea I just refer to myself as DM.' 'You may be just what I am looking for. Come this way-you four, get lost!' Willie orders. The young DM limps along with Willie, and Willie likes what he sees. 'The other kids called you Flake, is that the chocolate bar you favour?' Willie smilingly asks. 'No sir, they were calling me flakey, because I sneezed whilst waiting for you, and ricked my back.' 'I would like you to join my employ, young DM, I shall put you in charge of my newest venture, the everlasting gobmoaner. It doesn't matter how much you...', 'Suck them!', came a yell. 'Go home Helen!', admonished Willie to the young, but grizzled woman with the five o'clock shadow. She zoomed away in her motorised wheelchair, twirling her joystick as she went, singing, "There is nothing like a dame.". 'As I was saying, if you soak it, chip away at it, talk to it, argue with it, humour it, or plain just hit it with a hammer, it just keeps on moaning. It is an everlasting, nay I say, je dis, eternal gobmoaner, and only I, Willie Wenger have them.' With that the young DM joined the staff, and as quick as he could, hobbled off to the sick bay. With apologies to a comedy giant, Gene Wilder, the real Willie Wonka.

  92. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 17:54 #58899

    So the star ship enterprise is once again orbiting London Colney, although i'm sure it doesn't be to far away just three or four light years (just like the team under OGL) as it's always on standby. I wonder is Diaby still at the controls (he's bound to be fit enough to stand and be beamed down) ready to beam up the latest intergalactic tourists not to be seen again for weeks/months? (although some would say not a great loss) unfortunately he always beams up the wrong tourist who also wouldn't be a big loss, maybe the rest will do Ozil good and he can he retrain and become seventh in command of the bridge now, although a medic or fitness coach would be of more benefit.

  93. JAMIE

    Oct 08, 2014, 17:50 #58898

    Chelsea being allowed to kick us at will certainly didn't help on the injury front.

  94. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 08, 2014, 17:50 #58897

    Westlower- George, 6 trophies in 8 seasons. Wenger, 8 trophies in 18 seasons. Depends what you mean by consistency really, if you mean consistently average then over the last decade Wenger is certainly King. Even in George's lower-scoring later years he managed us to become the first team to win the domestic cup double and to win only our second European trophy at a time when the ECWC was actually difficult to win (ie we faced better teams than the one from Galatasaray in 2000). Give me those two entertainingly fantastic achievements over a desperate scrap for 4th place any day of the week, but I guess the Virtual Trophy and Wenger's drying signature on that new contract mean more to you and many others. PS Great news that Ozil's out for a while, be nice to play with 11 men again.

  95. Hiccup

    Oct 08, 2014, 17:17 #58896

    Far too much frivolity on here today. In case it's escaped anyone's notice, we have a mounting injury crisis that needs dissecting to death. Seems some people can just shrug it off as one of those things, which leads me to question your support for Arsenal. Me, I'm struggling to eat I'm that worried sick about it. Personally, I'd like to blame wenger, but I'll get slaughtered. So for now, I'll just blame him for the outbreak of ebola in Europe.

  96. Smithy

    Oct 08, 2014, 16:31 #58895

    Can I work for Arsenals medical and conditioning team? I haven't got any Medical training or any notion of sport science or physiology but I cant do a worse job. Perhaps we should hire a shamen or a druid- they may be more accurate? In all seriousness its an absolute shambles and is far too often to be just'bad luck'.

  97. BADARSE

    Oct 08, 2014, 16:30 #58894

    Diaby should be fit though!

  98. Westlower

    Oct 08, 2014, 16:27 #58893

    The side starting for the next game against Hull should pick itself from who's left standing. Missing for sure are Ozil, Ramsey, Debuchy, Giroud, Sanogo, Chambers (suspended). Walcott & Gnabry are back in training. Arteta may be available, but Sanchez will be travelling back from Chile & must be doubtful . With our track record we're bound to pick up more injuries during the International games. We're only 7 games in and have the longest long term injury list in PL. Nothing changes!

  99. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 16:06 #58892

    BADARSE, I thought i'd stumbled onto the wrong site there for a minute, but if you say Helen was only blowing up balloons who are we to disagree.

  100. BADARSE

    Oct 08, 2014, 15:57 #58891

    Firstly, as people seem to nominate posting awards I want to bestow one on you 24601, that last post regarding the reality of GG's tenure, and a parallel love of the famous back line-which was the four plus Seaman and Keown, those six are interminably linked in my mind-I want to thank you for the music, and the clarity of the post. Spoken with passion my friend. It is the clearest essence of reality of an era in AFC's history. Now, on the subject of reality...'Helen, please keep blowing, don't stop!' She's here getting the balloons ready for the Virtual BBQ, we need so many as Bard feels the need to bite them, and they keep popping. maguiresbridge, that S/F goal has been air-brushed and reinvented, despite it's beauty, it was a 'saveable' shot. You and me pal, onwards with the Giggsgate conspiracy, but put down the garden gnome first.

  101. Bard

    Oct 08, 2014, 15:56 #58890

    Baddie.loved the post mate, really funny. Need that after the news that Ozils out for 10/12 weeks. Great shame, despite everyones misgivings, I could watch him all day. As was posted the fitness and medical teams are obviously doing a great job. Unbelievable. I have posted before and I say it with all sincerity, I am willing available and very cheap. please no cheap jokes. MG, you are disgrace, would you really be willing to hoover up my leftovers ? Without revealing too much she is injured rather too often for my liking. They are mainly muscular injuries but shes often out action for weeks at a time. I wonder whether I tend to overwork her. Im not a fan of rotation if you get my drift MG.

  102. Unchives

    Oct 08, 2014, 15:53 #58889

    Ozil must be the most relived player in the Squad, with a 12 week holiday coming up. He has been truly dreadful. Unfortunately a blessing in disguise. We've got three months to get a good price for him on ebay. With all the prudent spending by Wenger & his Scrooge associates, this must go down as one of the most expensive flops in Arsenal history,truly Veronesque proportions.

  103. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 15:43 #58888

    BADARSE, I couldn't agree more with you ref safe hands, I've always said and maintain to this day if he'd stood up and made himself big instead of thinking he was playing five a side with small goals indoors he'd have saved it, and i'm surprised it has never been brought up more over the years. I suppose there was more forgiveness in those days for a keeper/player who everybody knew was real class and proved it.

  104. Angry & Frustrated

    Oct 08, 2014, 15:22 #58887

    I see that Ozil has been ruled out injured for the next 3 months or so. This come as no great surprise to me because apart from the fact he is an Arsenal player therefore it is a given he will be injured, his last two games v Galatasaray & Chelsea he looked way off the pace, clearly exhausted. He should have been dropped and rested but Wenger doesn’t do that, as he has a tendency to play players until they break down. Ironically this will probably improve Wenger’s current team, as the Ox was excellent and full of energy v Galatasaray, so will bring that zip into the team, coupled with it being a more balanced side.

  105. Peter Wain

    Oct 08, 2014, 15:10 #58886

    Ozil out for 12 weeks and Ramsey out for 8 weeks so much for our fitness experts

  106. DJ

    Oct 08, 2014, 15:09 #58885

    Ozil out for 10/12 weeks!!!! Perhaps that's why Arsene overstocked in the midfield area!! What price Cesc now???

  107. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 15:05 #58884

    Hi berry, I echo Tony Evans, excellent post/response, and if a goal like that was scored against us today I doubt such a big thing would be made of it, as it wouldn't really come as a surprise.

  108. maguiresbridge gooners

    Oct 08, 2014, 14:54 #58883

    JAMIE, there you go getting mixed up again talking about yourself/selves, (or maybe not?) don't you mean dark moonies.

  109. DJ

    Oct 08, 2014, 14:46 #58882

    Westie: I agree entirely with your assessment of the GG years. Replacing Rocastle and Limpar with Hillier and McGoldrick was something I could never forgive him for. I’m also sure that is the reason he lost his job if we were top of the league and flying it would have been conveniently swept under the carpet like a few other managers. (No names no pack drill!) Though I do think we have now turned full circle and become more like our local rivals with the ‘never mind the trophies feel the quality of our football mantra’ A happy medium would be nice Dorris Stokes on acid anyone???

  110. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 14:43 #58881

    Helen, great sense of humour, if Bard blows you out give me a shout with an offer like that who could resist, even if I did call you big.

  111. Peter Wain

    Oct 08, 2014, 14:26 #58880

    Of course the squad is nowhere strong enough. The goalkeeper gives no confidence to the defence. The fullbacks positional play is non existent. The centre backs too slow and the midfield too light weight and the defensive midfielders we have nowhere near good enough. Up front no consistent quality. So no we are not competing to win the pl only 4th and I think we may miss out this year. We need a dominant centre half but then so do man u and Liverpool and we will not compete with them. We need two 6 foot plus defensive midfield players another centre back. I would personally by Czech but the reality is that in January we will be lucky to purchase anyone. Lot of talk no action. Some things never change.

  112. Westlower

    Oct 08, 2014, 14:25 #58879

    Previous to my post questioning GG's defensive record I must first declare my love of the greatest Back 4 in the history of English football. I have a signed poster size print of the Back Four hanging with pride in my house. GG'S greatest season was 90/91 when we conceded only 18 goals, scoring 74 and losing only once (at Chelsea of course). GG's history as AFC boss reads thus: 88/89, F76, A36, Lost 6; 89/90, F 54, A38, Lost 12; 91/92, F81, A46, Lost 8; 92/93 (42 games), F40, A38, Lost 16; 93/94, F53, A28, Lost 7; 94/95, F52, A49, Lost17. However biased one is we lost a lot of games in GG's reign compared to Wenger's. To only score 40 goals from 42 games in 92/93 speaks volumes of GG's attitude to football. I am grateful and have fond memories of the highlights during GG's reign but consistency was not his strength. Sadly after the 91/92 season, GG lost his nerve for attacking football, returning goals total of 40, 53 & 52 before his demise. The football played in his last 3 years was the most dismal I witnessed at Highbury from my baptism in 1961. In comparison the Wenger years have been entertainingly fantastic!

  113. BADARSE

    Oct 08, 2014, 14:14 #58878

    Loved that last post maguiresbridge. Didn't quite take three hours, nearly but am really improving and had got this one down to two hours fifty, didn't throw the drink, it was seductively poured. I know she didn't realise this and thought my nonchalant and suave look was a case of trapped wind, but I tried to lick my Dandelion and Burdock off her and caught my tongue in the zipper, it's why I rushed home. The fact as I rushed home I dropped my blow football game was incidental. Never thrown one of my toys since, well ages, I suppose really since I chose my yo-yo and it came straight back to me. Safe Hands made a mistake at the near post for the Giggs goal. Had he stood to attention, stock still, closed his eyes and gritted his teeth the ball would have hit him on the head.

  114. Bard

    Oct 08, 2014, 13:55 #58877

    Conchita; Helen has really started something. Conchita I will consider it but Im grieving at the moment. What with the loss of Helen and all the injuries, Im a bit fragile at the moment. I need to feel centred again or even wide left but definitely not back four. I wonder how Kev would feel if we morphed into an Arsenal online dating site.

  115. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 13:24 #58876

    BADARSE, there's only one place I moan all night with a beautiful woman beside me, and it's not the kind your referring to.

  116. GBP

    Oct 08, 2014, 13:08 #58875

    jjetplane - i think most fans/observers who are honest, be they supportive of things now or not supportive would say that the case v Arsene certainly cranked up a few notches after OT in 2011. I was there that day too and despite the brilliant after match support as we were locked into the Theatre of Fixed Home matches, the real noises started i think. My hunch is AW will be in his chair for the next 12-18 months so much of the passionate drive to shift him is wasted energy really in my view.

  117. kilkenny cat

    Oct 08, 2014, 13:08 #58874

    The squad will never be strong enough while this man is in charge. He will always leave us short in important area,s. Its almost like an experiment and with no strong spine it will never work. We have a squad of mainly average players,some might become good players,but very few are of the standard required. The ones that are of the needed level are either played out of position and not used where they can have maximum impact,or always injured which questions the training methods as well as the medical staff. I doubt we will buy in January unless we are desperate and ogl needs to placate the fans again. Nothing will change till ogl has gone.

  118. Conchita Wurst

    Oct 08, 2014, 12:56 #58872

    What about me Bard,Jeff Wright refused to post again after I left him.Will you take me back.please.

  119. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 12:55 #58871

    I see Heaven has been found, I wonder had OGL the messiah himself anything to do with the discovery, he'd probably take the praise and no doubt be given it by some. Just think of all the ex Arsenal players up there they'd certainly make the squad strong enough, depending where he'd play them of course.

  120. GBP

    Oct 08, 2014, 12:51 #58870

    jjetplane - its the same smug, leathery grin he's always had, equally in times of glory and despair so what's your point?

  121. jjetplane

    Oct 08, 2014, 12:51 #58869

    GBP you have proved my point. I was at that match and remember it well and Giggs (the Welsh whinger) is high on my list of people to hate in football. You say the defence was **** in 99 and this is when Mr Boiled Chicken was fully feathered and making notes/doodling while the little empire was left to defend for itself. Admirable though they were, under the complete reign/tyranny of Wenger most fans who know more about football knew the wheels could off at any moment. They did many times (remember being at Wembley when BARca pissed on the tactical genius?). Should have been moved on at 2004 latest and by now we would have done a Bilbao. On my little straw clutchers ....

  122. Charlie George Orwell

    Oct 08, 2014, 12:39 #58868

    Pete: So the real problem at Arsenal is the large number of Arsenal supporters who want a new manager and who want to win more than one trophy (actually the 3rd best out of a possible 4) in 9 years? Thank you for that productive analysis and valuable insight. You are a good Party Member - you will receive an increased chocolate ration this week.

  123. Bard

    Oct 08, 2014, 12:38 #58867

    Firstly profuse apologies to all for letting my love life spill over into the public domain. Now I know how Giggs felt, when he was rumbled for naughtiness with his brothers misses. I have had words with the delightful Helen and warned her that I will take our a gagging order (no pun intended) if she so much as dares to mention my ability to score from any position. now I have got that off my chest back to the footy. Hi Berry a really good post. DJ Im going to need you and Hiccup's humour to get me through the interlull. I don't think I can cope with having to post endlessly about the lack of a decent back 4. I think we Kev to post one of those yesteryear posts that remind us what a good team we once were.

  124. jjetplane

    Oct 08, 2014, 12:34 #58866

    Just look at the smirk post Chelski defeat. It is the smirk of someone who KNOWS they are in the wrong job and now everyone in the politest way is telling him. Get yourself on board some floating venture capitalist BOAT and sail into whatever fantasy rocks you. Bit lost why we even bother talking about something/someone who surfaced in some football guise in Japan and managed to charm the Arsenal board with little numbers. Talking of little numbers WESTIEEEEEEEEeE! .....

  125. GBP

    Oct 08, 2014, 12:33 #58865

    Bob and Hi Berry - Yes guys, i hear and know all that (i was there cringing with dread as Giggs sailed through - strangely it was one of those moments in a match where you just knew where the ball was going to end up as he entered our half of the pitch despite what he still had to do!)My point is sfollowing on from Westie s comment that the TV and pundits over blow every incident. Today, they would be saying those defenders lacked pace, lacked poise, lacked discipline and lacked whatever else there was to lack. Too many fans hang on to every pathetic word the failure squad (Cloughies generic description of pundits) on the TV utter.

  126. Tony Evans

    Oct 08, 2014, 12:29 #58864

    Hi Berry 62162 - excellent post. The lack of real ambition at our club is the main frustration / gripe I and many others have. Wenger would not last 5 minutes if the board wanted more than just a top four finish and last 16 CL.

  127. DJ

    Oct 08, 2014, 11:56 #58863

    Badarse: re: Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. If I may be so bold, could I start the ball rolling and nominate any of our midfield over the last ten years as the oompa loompas! It’s going to be a long international break!

  128. Hi Berry

    Oct 08, 2014, 11:43 #58862

    GBP I think you'll find that the 'nub of disquiet' amongst those questioning Wenger's continued tenure is that the Giggs goal was the climax of an enthralling coming together of the top two teams in the country at that time which Arsenal could have and should have won. There's no disgrace losing to a goal like that - Giggs was running at pace and the slightest touch once in the penalty area would have brought a penalty. Despite being a completely deflating moment if you were a Gooner one can only marvel at its beauty and skill when the numerous re-runs are trotted out. The point I'm trying to make is those gargantuan tussles with MU epitomised a time when Arsenal were genuine heavyweight contenders for all honours which has sadly now become a thing of the past and think it unfair to wheel that goal out as one that would have the dissenters having a fit of the vapours about the defending. A lot of those games were highly combative collisions and the result in many cases could have gone either way - some we won, some we lost - but we always knew the team sent out in Arsenal colours would more or less die for the cause. Yes, any number of teams would love to be in Arsenal's position with a top four finish and CL football year on year but our ambitions would appear to have been downsized to something nearer those we had in the seventies and eighties which was hopefully a good tilt at finishing top six with the odd cup success. That and what can be done to change the apparent acceptance at board and managerial level of the current status quo is the 'nub of disquiet'.

  129. JAMIE

    Oct 08, 2014, 11:42 #58861

    The moonies do have very selective memories.I can remember how they used to slaughter Keown especially when GG played him in midfield.'We want more flair,We want more passing in the midfield'They would cry.Nowadays it's'We want hard men,We want leaders,We don't like all this passing'Booh hoo hoo.I've decided from now on the moonies will be called Veruca's after the girl Veruca Salt from the Willie Wonka film.'If Wenger doesn't give us what we want then we going to scream and scream and refuse to attend'.In fact I can see yet another remake of the film with the wob's in the starring roles.Over to you Baddie I'm sure you can do something with this.

  130. Bob

    Oct 08, 2014, 11:25 #58860

    GDP........the 99 Giggs "wonder-goal" was scored in the second half of extra-time against a tiring team.That defence - the one which George Graham built and moulded - conceded 17 goals in the entire league season. The shield that protected them, Petit and Vieira, remind us that Wenger was once an effective manager. Please don't cite an example that was notable for its rarity value as it only reminds us of how far we have fallen and the extent to which our manager lost his way so long ago.

  131. DJ

    Oct 08, 2014, 11:04 #58859

    Helen: Magnificent! That Bard's a lucky boy. Although, on the Ozil position I wish he would stay in the hole and perfect that!

  132. Helen

    Oct 08, 2014, 10:57 #58858

    Bard; How could you ? We agreed to keep this between us and now you are involving a whole community of half wits. I know we disagree about who deputises for Chambers but is that enough to break us up. Its true I get tired of your mooning and moaning but thats a small price to pay for your scintillating company. I had an evening out with Pete and all he did was bash me with his rhythm stick. I had another with Westie but he just kept going on about the odds of him getting his leg over. The evening with Baddie was even worse. I asked him how he was and the reply took 3 hours. I tried to interrupt but he threw his drink all over me said he didnt want to play anymore and stormed out. Come back to me Bard and I 'llgive you a licence to roam just like Ozil. As many on here suggest, being able to perform in a variety of positions is the key to success.

  133. Angry & Frustrated

    Oct 08, 2014, 10:38 #58857

    I think most people would agree that Arsenal require at least one more CB, but probably two is the actual number required. However what most people think and what Wenger thinks are two completely different things. Were he to actually get one in during Jan, it's just as likely he will obtain another Senderos, Cygan, Squillaci, Djourou or Silvestre! In which case I rather he didn't bother!

  134. GBP

    Oct 08, 2014, 10:35 #58856

    Westie - Can you imagine the furore on here about defending if they had to live through a repeat of and listen to a modern day SKY coverage of the 1999 FAC Semi at VP when our defenders looked like the keystone cops as Giggs waltzed through the entire team more or less. leaving the defenders on their backsides? Maguiresbridge and Co plus a good few others on here would be basket cases. You wouldn't squeeze a razor blade on to the their local motorway bridges. You're right too. A high proportion of the wobs wont settle until we act like City and Chelsea. Thats the very nub of all of the disquiet amongst them.

  135. Lee Smith

    Oct 08, 2014, 10:00 #58855

    Why is it always 'If' with Arsenal? Why weren't the issues that turned last season from potential title winners to 4th place (also-rans in my vocabulary) addressed? Getting Khadeira is a MUST in January (Ozil just ain't doing it). Is Chambers up to it? Not convinced meself.

  136. BADARSE

    Oct 08, 2014, 9:20 #58854

    Why Have We, you know me so well, truly you do. Well I am not interested in other websites, it's much to do with my computer knowledge and inability-I am a complete incompetent-but also a weird 'brand loyalty' thing. Read the Gooner, read Online Gooner, a natural continuance. I also happen to like quite a few of the loonies on here, those who agree with my view, so too those who disagree. I've probably spent more on demonstrating-cash wise, given up more of my life-time wise, and most of my peace of mind, in pursuing and supporting campaigns and fighting social injustices, that you perhaps have given to AFC. Not a boast, not an anything, just perhaps a fact. Anyway, I had a sudden childlike desire to 'frisby' the pappadom at an old man on a bike as we came home, and did! Funny posts DJ, Bard and Hiccup. DJ, the BBQ date has been moved to Halloween night. Just a tip, if you catch Bard canoodling with anyone watch for him going for the neck-dangerous 'love bites' are those. I just hope none go waltzing off to B&Q's on the night like last year-I had the 'Devil's own job' of enticing AMG out of a sink unit cupboard, had to buy him a set of taps to get him to leave. Before you ask, yes he has still got them, Jeremy and Nigel, all three of them are very close now.

  137. Westlower

    Oct 08, 2014, 9:04 #58853

    @ljbp, You've probably been listening to the pundits for too long. Try watching televised games with the sound off, that way you won't be hanging on to every critical word of the SKY Gods. Everything is over analysed & it leaves the punters dissatisfied with their teams performance. Tolerance of mistakes is a thing of the past, everything has to be perfect these days, although I can't ever remember Carragher, Neville, Lineker & Savage being so.

  138. Seven Kings Gooner

    Oct 08, 2014, 8:31 #58852

    A good post but all the questions you have asked are rhetorical, the squad lacks a plan on the pitch and is just not designed to challenge for the very top honours. If AW had managed the 1970 Brazil squad he would have played Pele wide left. I repeat what I have posted many times on this site, when you have watched a team for over 50 years you know when it is right and you know when it is wrong. This current squad is very skilful but is unbalanced and lacks a leader on the pitch and a tactical manager off it. The biggest problem is in the key positions, the players fall short and the manager no longer has that driven hunger or a plan, that you need to win titles.

  139. Bard

    Oct 08, 2014, 8:30 #58851

    ljbp. mate Im worried about you after that post. Im all for forensic analysis but thats a suicide note. You need help. Westie conclusion buy 2 decent players, a DM and another CB and we can give it a go. We can fiddle with the midfield but its ok and would be better for a top quality destroyer. Apart from dear old ljbp many of us are ok with the rest of the squad.

  140. Westlower

    Oct 08, 2014, 8:21 #58850

    So what's the conclusion(s)? We don't want English players as they're not good enough. We don't want young players as they're not good enough. We have to mimic CFC & mAN City & only buy established top of the tree players? How do young players get a start in life? For those of selective memories, AFC lost PL 17 games with Seaman, Dixon, Winterburn, Adams, Bould, in 94/95 & Millwall knocked us out of the FA Cup.

  141. ljbp

    Oct 08, 2014, 7:10 #58849

    Szez is not top quality and Ospina is far too short to be a top class keeper .Kos is overrated and Mertesacker past it,Monreal is dire,Gibbs is always injured and Chambers is having to learn the art of defending at Arsenal which means he will never be any good.Flamini and Arteta are dreadful,Wilshere is overrated,Ozil is pointless and we haven't got a decent striker at the club.Cazorla is past his best,the ox hasn't improved and as for the social media whore lets hope he goes in January.Apart from that the squad is top quality

  142. Roy

    Oct 08, 2014, 7:08 #58848

    Ah, those were the days. Adams and Bould with Keown snapping and snarling in front of them. No one f****d with us then, did they ?

  143. Bard

    Oct 08, 2014, 7:00 #58847

    DJ that was pretty funny mate, Im not sure you should get Pete worked up, hes one hard geezer. No Id prefer Helen wherever she is, I havent seen her since the Chelsea game when she ran off after we had a tiff over who will replace Chambers when hes suspended. She said Westie was right we could play Jack S... there. Hes only 13 but hes got potential. I had hoped Baddie would invite me to his curry night but apparently he hates sharing his rice and likes to arrange his tandori chicken in a four two four formation and then bores his missus with a long monologue on the evils of mooning.

  144. Ozzie

    Oct 08, 2014, 5:05 #58844

    ........But even more tragic that thousands of fans have to suffer for his ego.

  145. Ozzie

    Oct 08, 2014, 4:51 #58843

    Don't like or dislike Arsene; he looks a decent sort of fella, just not cut out to be manager of a footy team of Arsenal's calibre anymore. One wonders had he not inherited a great bunch and added a bit of cream whether he would have had as much success? Perhaps he has developed a taste for humiliation? Perhaps enough of that will drive out the vanity.If he needs just one cue on whether to quit he need only look in the mirror at his rapidly ageing face. he is not handsome anymore. Can anyone else see what the ego does to a person? It's tragic! Maguiresbridge, time to get rid of that shoe and give him the boot. Meanwhile, as some say, we'll just have to go with it, or bomb out.

  146. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Oct 08, 2014, 2:52 #58841

    You know you have reached rock bottom when your saying Isaac Hayden could do a job looooool. Are you having a laugh?? Wow standards have dropped

  147. AMG

    Oct 07, 2014, 23:05 #58840

    Priscilla, the short answer is no. 'If they can hang on until January and add then, just maybe…' - Sorry, but have you not been watching the last 5 or 6 years? We never add the players we need in January, or the summer for that matter, but hey ho, thanks for writing.

  148. Louis IV

    Oct 07, 2014, 22:17 #58839

    i think wenger has stoppped listening and learning. yes looking back when he wore those glasses he looked like he was studying the game. these days his arrogance is clear, he loves the smell of his own **** and thinks he can do no wrong. recipe for disaster the best never stop listening and learning and thinking like contenders not know-it- alls. anyway i think were still good enough for 4th but so are Man Utd. its going to be tougher for us this time for sure.

  149. Bob

    Oct 07, 2014, 22:08 #58838

    At a time when the English national team is as weak as it has been in living memory, we have more English players than all of our main rivals. Nothing against any of them individually, the likes of Gibbs, Ox, Jack, Chambers, Wally, Wellbeck are decent enough types though I suspect most of them would struggle to commmand regular places at City, Chelsea and United, and possibly at Liverpool too. But they are not going to take us to the next level. We need to compete for the best players on the world stage - the likes of Khadira and Di Maria - to win major trophies.

  150. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 07, 2014, 21:32 #58837

    BADARSE- Thanks but I think I'll pass on the poppadom, I reckon they palm all the stale, out of date stuff on you as they know you're the unquestioning, happy-with-anything type who never complains and always comes back for more. You are right though, life is short and we must do what we can while we can, that's why I'll always argue the case for the betterment of my football club. And be honest, you love wallowing in the realms of misery too, otherwise you'd spend all your time posting on Untold Arsenal instead of here, wouldn't you?

  151. Westlower

    Oct 07, 2014, 21:31 #58836

    Still a lot of red mist floating around. Some of you need to see a knee specialist to correct the jerks! I totally agree we need to sign another CB, perhaps it'll happen in Jan. Isaac Hayden can do a job there if required. Why not play Flamini or Coquelin at RB against Hull as an alternative to Bellerin? @Man U Killer, Enjoy the here & now as Wenger's replacement may fall way short of your expectations.

  152. Hiccup

    Oct 07, 2014, 21:29 #58835

    Bard, I know there's no logic to only having only 2 CB's, but it's actually quite fun trying to find some deluded logic to back this absurd theory up. Here's my attempt to join in the game. If we go with the notion that you tie your own hands behind your back and can only have two half decent CB's, then as past experience shows, that only leaves the Squillaci and Djourou types as cover. Now if you're going to have that type of cover there's no point bloody bothering. Stay with me here, I'm nearly finished. So, the genius behind this idea, means you can flood your midfield options with a couple more similar style players like you already have. Obviously you still go in to the season praying injuries don't kick in, but we'll cross that bridge should we ever come to it. Not as far fetched as some things posted on here I know, but I'm new to this game. I can only get better with practice.

  153. Pete

    Oct 07, 2014, 20:18 #58833

    It's not the squad or the manager it's the wobs who are the problem.

  154. DJ

    Oct 07, 2014, 20:06 #58832

    BADARSE: Bit late for the BBQ but please let me come to the Xmas party so I can catch Bard and Jamie under the mistletoe! Sorry I go stir crazy during the international break!

  155. BADARSE

    Oct 07, 2014, 19:23 #58830

    We Have Only and maguiresbridge, you do realise we are all destined to die, don't you? However, you can enjoy what life serves up for you at any given time. Tonight for instance I am off for a Ruby with a beautiful woman, how good is that? I'd take you two along but you'd probably moan all night and let yourselves down-I'll bring you back a papadum. Roll on the Online Gooner virtual BBQ. Namaste.

  156. Bard

    Oct 07, 2014, 19:19 #58829

    Westie much as I like your unbridled optimism, you seem to have a habit of making it up as you go along. I have never posted we should sell Wally, hes a very good impact player. This latest discussion over CBs centres on the ridiculous notion that no decent CB would want to warm the bench. Why would he warm the bench he might replace one or other or they could be rotated. Its called competition. Selling TVM was good business not replacing him wasnt. Good post Hiccup, Im with you, the fact that we are an injury away from a make shift defence says everything you need to know about our haphazard purchases. Priscilla, good to read a female poster for once but I think you fall into the old trap of hoping we get to Jan and then buy. Its the big lie to keep us all hanging on. Others have covered that base.

  157. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 07, 2014, 19:10 #58828

    We don't have to wait until the season drifts on to find ourselves in a familiar position we already are, and we'll not have to wait to find out how it'll end either, that's common knowledge. As for the weaknesses being exposed they already have been also (more times than we can count)but all easily rectified if it wasn't for the biggest weakness of all, the old man who lives in a shoe who tells us he's a manager and made many substitutions but still doesn't know what to do. And has been continually exposed for years now and will continue to be, and be our biggest weakness until he's sent back to his shoe permanently.

  158. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 07, 2014, 19:05 #58827

    Is this squad capable of retaining The Virtual Trophy and keeping Wenger's disciples happy in their comfy slippers? Yes, I'm sure it is. Is it capable of p*****g off Mourinho and achieving what a club of our stature and huge resources should be achieving? No, of course not but considering this was the third transfer window since Wenger's always bogus financial excuse finally ran out, there's no reason to expect any different over the minimum 5 more windows that The Cult Of Wenger have made sure we all have to suffer.

  159. GBP

    Oct 07, 2014, 19:04 #58826

    I think we cd make 3rd this time if injuries don't decimate us for long periods. Not replacing TV is oft used as another red herring to hit at Wenger. TV he was so unfit that he cd rarely play even when we have needed him. Hes till unfit. Good business to seel him for that price though we ve sold a few crocks to Barca down the years, Van B and Pettit and Overmars come to mind. Its hard to buy a 3rd CB whos hardly going to play hence Chambers is the gamble in that position plus there a few really good CBs in football right now. Its got some thing to do with defending being unfashionable and the rule changes have made defending hard to excel at. We do need a 'shield'type player because of the weaknesses in defence though. Im not a Koschielny fan and big Mert has his limitations doesnt he. We ve lacked a Ya Ya Toure type for years too. They dont grow on trees though. I think we ll see some decent things from the team yet. We ve stuttered a bit agreed but the possible Khedira deal seems to still have legs?

  160. Hiccup

    Oct 07, 2014, 18:35 #58824

    Westie, thanks for the brief synopsis of Keown's career. I think in there somewhere is the explanation of how GG managed to have 3 quality CB's in the same squad. He went out and bought Keown. Must have been some miracle worker our George if even wenger can only acquire 2 CB's in total.

  161. Trevor

    Oct 07, 2014, 18:28 #58823

    Westie that £50 a week cost Keown 5 winners medals.In 89 we had Adams Bould and O'Leary in 91 we has Adams Bould and Lineghan.When we did bring Keown back GG played him as a 3rd CB or a midfield destroyer.If Kos had got a red card for the pen tackle v Hazard our back 4 v Hull would be Bellerin Mert Monreal and Gibbs.Some deluded fans still think Wenger knows.

  162. Man United killer

    Oct 07, 2014, 18:14 #58821

    Westlower is it really? You forget that Ramsey played right back for Wenger. That Flamini played left back, that Cesc even played AMR, that cazorla has played a DM role in recent days..shall I go on? I am sure you get the drift.There is life after Wenger and I CAN'T WAIT.*

  163. Jose Mourinho

    Oct 07, 2014, 18:09 #58820

    This article is way too optimistic.Szczesny is still prone to mistakes and his distribution is awful.The two CB's Mert this season looks even slower than before and as shown on sunday Koscielny has that big mistake in him.Our midfield will never be considered the best in Europe when the likes of Ozil and Cazorla dont turn up for games against the big sides away from home.On sunday we may as well have started with 10 men for what Ozil produced.Upfront Welbeck is not a clinical finisher but he is the best we have.Its obvious Wenger doesnt rate Campbell so why keep him? Sunday showed us how far we really are behind the top 2.Last season in Jan we were top of the league and Wenger signed Kalstrom on loan he wont spend big unless there is a chance it looks like we wont finish 4th like he did when he signed Arshavin.You seem to forget for Wenger and Gazidis 4th place is the Holy Grail

  164. Westlower

    Oct 07, 2014, 18:07 #58819

    Who remembers our top scoring centre forward John Radford being played exclusively on the right wing for England? @Hiccup, GG sold Keown to Villa for £200k because he refused to pay him an extra £50 per week wages. Villa sold him to Everton for £750k before Arsenal reigned him for £2,000,000, 7 years after he left Highbury. @Man U Killer, your remark re David Silva is not worthy of further comment.

  165. Hiccup

    Oct 07, 2014, 17:45 #58817

    So every one seems to agree that we have no depth at CB. Even Westie does which I hope he got clearance from wenger before he came out with that. But apparently our weakest position is going to be the hardest to fill? Why? How come we can keep attracting midfielders when we have 20 of these in our 25 man squad? How the hell did GG manage to have Adams, Bould and Keown all in the same squad? The bottom line is wenger has started the season and screwed up in this position. Why anyone feels the need to make an excuse for this incompetence is ludicrous.

  166. Hiccup

    Oct 07, 2014, 17:28 #58814

    Priscilla, enjoyable article, but I believe your assumptions and hopes are misguided. Firstly, if we hang on until January, then as with last year, wenger will feel no need to add to the squad. Unless of course there is a one legged thirty something available on loan. If we are hanging in there, then wenger will just watch this depthless squad run itself in to the ground and fall by the wayside. Now on the other hand, if we are not hanging in there, then there's every chance reinforcements will come in to preserve our 4th place. It's all about prioritising what's important for the fans.

  167. Man United killer

    Oct 07, 2014, 17:16 #58813

    Westlower you brand my view nonsensical yet you don't state your reasons-I am assuming you don't have have any because it's just natural to jump at Wenger's defense without considering the opposing view. Sorry to disappoint you but I don't hate Wenger. I am just fully convinced and have been for 6 years now that he has hit his tactical/managerial ability ceiling. * There is life after Wenger and I CAN'T WAIT.*

  168. Westlower

    Oct 07, 2014, 17:13 #58812

    Historically some of Arsenal's best teams contained players adapting to new positions. The double team of 70/71 had McLintock converted to CB from being an attacking midfielder. Peter Storey switched from full back to DM, George Graham was signed as a centre forward before playing in a deeper role. England want JW as a DM, & won the World Cup with midfielder Alan Ball on the right wing. Man U played Welbeck as a winger. Intelligent players adapt to a new circumstance. Apart from the Ox starting instead of Cazorla, Sunday's team picked itself due to our long injury list.

  169. Jumpers for Goalposts

    Oct 07, 2014, 17:06 #58811

    Wenger won't address the problems in January! He never does because he doesn't see them as problems. It's incredible to think that Patrick Vieira was at the core of every successful Wenger team but Wenger will not now buy a top class Defensive Midfielder. It's also incredible to think that some Gooners still believe in Wenger

  170. Lord Froth

    Oct 07, 2014, 16:58 #58810

    For me one of the key elements to Wengers tactics is the mistake in playing ozil on the left. On Sunday he was on the left and you could see that the team had very little width as evidenced by the futile moves that kept breaking up as soon as they reached the edge of the Chelsea area as lack of compusure and some poor first touches meant that the optimum moment to shoot never arose. Against Galatasary Ozil was played in the middle and with Sanchez and the Ox playing wide and stretching the defence they were all over the place and turned into a shambles. The problem is that if Ozil is to be played wide then he needs to be instructed to stay there and not drift infield to occupy the space when Cazorla or Wilshere are expected to be meaning that the body of the midfield are all over on the right and Gibbs has bombed forward leaving the opposition right winger or striker a free run at Mertesacker that Flamini sees and tries in vain to cover. The tweak to be made also is to use the wingers to provide width and not so often the wing backs against the stronger teams and to keep the shape more.

  171. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Oct 07, 2014, 16:49 #58809

    Wenger is a tactically weak manager and anyone that argues against that needs to look at he's record against fellow so called rivals . It's awful . Wenger would not win anything with the current Chelsea or man city squad I honestly believe that!!! The man is clueless. He's fake persona of a gentleman he has peddled for years was exposed over the weekend and I hate mourinho who is a nasty man.

  172. Westlower

    Oct 07, 2014, 16:32 #58808

    @Man U Killer, what a load of tosh you've just posted re the Man City squad. Your hatred of Wenger has distorted your judgement.

  173. Gooner67

    Oct 07, 2014, 15:59 #58807

    We do not have a plan B and the top teams know exactly how to play us. Wenger should have left the club on a high after last season. For me it is very frustrating we have been unable to beat the top 4 for many seasons now because we're too predictable.

  174. Man United Killer

    Oct 07, 2014, 15:33 #58806

    Angry&Frustrated.Thank you.Summed it up perfectly.I have always said it does not matter how good our players are-unless they are a core of players who know how to take collective responsibility.That is obviously something our current crop lacks. Wenger's tactical ineptitude will always trump player quality.If you gave him the Man City squad he would play silva as a DM and Ferndando in attacking midfield.And Dzeko?How about we stick in on the flanks

  175. DJ

    Oct 07, 2014, 14:58 #58803

    If we had Adams and Vieira in their prime then this team might have a chance of competing because they would be voices on the pitch who would organise and not tolerate slackness. That is the main problem with Wenger teams post 2006 no leaders and to use our leaders favourite catchphrase no mental strength!

  176. Angry & Frustrated

    Oct 07, 2014, 14:49 #58801

    Wenger could have Chelsea/Man City/Barcelona/Real Madrid or Bayern Munich's squads, but he will still cock it up, because of his insistence of style over substance. Hence when the really important games come along, which inevitably decide where the big prizes go, he would as at Arsenal be found wanting! So you can have a shopping list as long as your arm, but if the manager is incapable of preparing a team based on who you are playing against, you will forever be peeing into the wind! This is why we finish fourth and get kicked out every season at the last 16 stage in the CL!

  177. Westlower

    Oct 07, 2014, 14:31 #58800

    Our two obvious weaknesses are at CB & DM. If media reports are accurate then Sami Khedira will be our DM in Jan. The CB position is not so easy to fill if we're committed to BFG & Kos. Which class CB will join us merely to sit on the bench? Somebody (Pod?) will have to leave to allow the Khedira transfer to happen. Same story to bring in a CB (Campbell?).

  178. Tony Evans

    Oct 07, 2014, 14:31 #58799

    No chance and that's with us even hanging on until January; anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly mistaken or a fool. We are far too lightweight at the back, in fact the team as a whole does not seem to be coached to track back and defend when required. A team needs a certain 'edge' to them to really achieve, which we had in spades 1998 to 2006 but sadly that has been allowed to wither on the vine by Wenger and until that is addressed we will always flatter to deceive.

  179. GG89

    Oct 07, 2014, 14:10 #58795

    I can´t see a problem with the squad, it´s the manager that´s the problem.

  180. Man United Killer

    Oct 07, 2014, 14:01 #58794

    You already know the answer to that.