I want us to lose...

A remarkable admission



I want us to lose...

Arteta – Upmarket Denilson?


I don’t know about you, but I felt we had lost the recent game with Chelsea long before we took to the pitch for the match. Not to say that the game was a formality, but barring an early Chelsea red card it was almost impossible to see Arsenal getting anything from the match at all.

This got me musing on how far expectations have fallen at Arsenal in the last few frustrating years and how I have found myself – against my will, it has to be said – actually wanting Arsenal to lose games to hurry up the process of dismantling the mess that is currently ensuring we continue our slide into mediocrity.

There isn’t room here to list Wenger’s failings. The promises, the excuses, the nonsense, the ‘fight until the end’ mentality which doesn’t actually exist apart from in his imagination. I lost faith in Wenger’s ability to get the best out of the situation at Arsenal quite a long time ago and it makes me angry to see fans accept the situation. The reason I gave up my season ticket in 2010 was that I’d grown completely disillusioned at watching Denilson play over 100 games for the club. ONE HUNDRED!

Fans who now tolerate Mikel Arteta pulling on an Arsenal shirt are being similarly short-changed. Forget the pretentious nonsense about his being a ‘midfield metronome.’ He’s an automaton trained to pass the ball to the nearest Arsenal shirt. Opposition players running towards him cause him to malfunction completely, and when I say he’s an upmarket Denilson I damn him with very, very, very faint praise.

I am at the stage where I will accept just about anyone as Arsenal manager as long as it’s not Arsène Wenger. Ok, I draw the line at Peter Reid, but only just. A friend texted me recently to say David Moyes is available and would guide us out of Europe completely. But United have acted quickly and decisively and now are making steady progress up the table, as we already begin bedding down in fourth.

I am an Arsenal fan. I have been since I went to my first game in 1988 at the age of 6, and I still am despite refusing to pay top dollar to watch players like Olivier Giroud attempt to play at the highest level. But I have no shame in wanting things to get worse if it means they get better. There is an alarming lack of ruthlessness about Arsenal’s attack which is mirrored in the stands, and I’d rather Arsenal failed in their season through a desperate and brave bid for glory than to hear endless sound-bites from nonentity footballers like Theo Walcott that ‘we’re ready to step up now.’

The expectation level at our club has fallen further every season – losing at Chelsea before we’d come out of the tunnel suggests it keeps falling. Fans who tolerate it and try to suggest that we should be careful what we wish for don’t seem to realise that the status quo is taking Arsenal backwards. We’re not stagnating – we’re getting further away from the top every year this man is allowed to spout his nonsense to a fawning media and (diminishing) public. I’ve stepped down from the front line and look forward to returning when there’s a new manager and a new culture of hunger and pride.


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173
comments

  1. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 16, 2014, 0:05 #59398

    Why are they called wob's then.

  2. Spaced

    Oct 15, 2014, 23:00 #59393

    Good point, there are definitely a few of those supporters on this forum.

  3. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 15, 2014, 22:51 #59392

    Spaced- I agree, it's so difficult to determine some fans' true allegiance these days, isn't it. For example, all those thousands at Stamford Bridge singing 'Arsene Wenger, we want you to stay', who do think they support?

  4. Aaron

    Oct 15, 2014, 22:39 #59390

    @John Gee Our wage bill is higher than Chelsea's and have a higher net spend the past few seasons. Mourinho spotted the deficiencies in his team and bought Matic, Fabregas and Diego Costa. If we had those 3 we'd probably win the league (maybe one more top CB required). Arteta as our starting DCM is a joke, has been shown to be not mobile or strong enough in big games yet we persist with him or the spent Famini

  5. Spaced

    Oct 15, 2014, 22:24 #59388

    Rocky, Bad, shame I didn't read your responses before the morlocks came back on. I love your great memories of fantastic football. My mate used to say the same thing almost every home game: "The season ticket is worth it just to see Bergkamp alone". I personally think that it is no coincidence that when Bergkamp retired we had a barron spell. After all, this is the man who fed our two record breaking strikers.... The more I read from these guys (take the responses to next article as case in point) The more I am convinced that many are not Arsenal supporters but Finsbury Joes who sabotage the site for fun.

  6. maguiresbridge gooners

    Oct 15, 2014, 21:49 #59386

    Oh the memories where did it all go wrong.

  7. jjetplane

    Oct 15, 2014, 20:24 #59381

    If JOE BAKER (proper Arsenal) says it the case is rested. It was a good season though not invincible and as you said ROCKY it was just mediaspeak but if people want to cherry pick and parrot the media good luck to them. Resting on laurels leads to the footballing complacency we have had for the last decade. Champions do not rest - they just keep winning till the tank is empty. Think of Wenger's hero Fergie. That's what you call winning and they were jammy so and so's too. I watch football live most weeks. Sure some of the posters on here don't. Laughable. Respect to you ROCK as always - I know a gooner whaen I read one.

  8. Joe Baker

    Oct 15, 2014, 18:35 #59378

    Absolutely agree with every word here. All those people who are critical of this view are part of the problem, and too stupid to realise that they are being duped. Wenger has been given far too much time. He is never going to win the CL or the league again because of his naive, inflexible approach. And why should he change, when complacent Arsenal fans are prepared to pay the highest prices in Europe to watch dross? They don't deserve better. If Wenger had been at any other club he would have been removed years ago, because supporters would have removed him. Dream on you Wenger supporters. To paraphrase a political commentator speaking of the electorate and their governments, "Football supporters get the manager they deserve!"

  9. BADARSE

    Oct 15, 2014, 18:04 #59375

    Yeah so many want Arsenal to fail, I've spent a lifetime encountering those people-it's probably what is the most disappointing when so-called Arsenal fans try to make a case for us losing a game, or just criticising relentlessly. All very sad.

  10. Rocky RIP

    Oct 15, 2014, 17:47 #59374

    @ Badarse - it was such a pivotal game that I'm not surprised you screamed. All Arsenal fans did. We'd been knocked out of the FA Cup and the Champions League that week and the media were calling on an Arsenal meltdown. We were 2-1 down at half time and the collapse they so desired was on. But wait ...

  11. BADARSE

    Oct 15, 2014, 17:09 #59373

    Thanks Rocky RIP, from you that's praise indeed. I was at the 3-1 AV game, and yes it was game number 49. I too have a friend who regards me as a big brother, sometimes a mentor, ha ha-haven't yet led him astray but give me time. I always said for him to grab a hold of what was there, to clutch it to him tightly, and relish it, because it was a passing moment, no more. He often refers back to that advice, and it made his bigger picture clearer to see. That Liverpool game I listened on the radio in my kitchen, I was hooked up with texts to others, couple of phone calls, and it was a bit like Apollo 13 in there, with gadgets and me pacing up and down talking to myself. An old school friend of my wife's had visited that lunchtime-she knows about Arsenal and me, but that day I think frightened her. I screamed so loudly when Titi put us in front, just a loud and sustained bellow. In the other room the lady thought it was the end of the world. She was then rocked back in her seat as I ran into the front room, yelling and laughing, and as I always do, ran and kissed my wife. Such joy. If you can connect with the memory's moment you can still feel the tingle. Magical.

  12. Rocky RIP

    Oct 15, 2014, 16:52 #59370

    @ Badarse - a hearty round of applause in your direction. What we witnessed that season was on another level. Thierry Henry at his devastating peak and the best player in the world that season. Dennis with the best first touch in football. Vieira tearing up trees through the middle, etc. Touch, passing and movement to make you weep. Thierry's slalom v Liverpool at Easter to bring us back from the brink. Mental scenes. I still recall a few moaners even back then. I pulled one or two up on it. Can you not recognise how good we are? was the general gist. I guess some people just don't have a footballing brain capable of recognising brilliance and will always find a fault. One guy turned to me and said (ironically during the Villa game at home which was possibly the last undefeated game) 'we kind of assume it'll always be like this...it won't'. Thankfully I appreciated it while it lasted as I knew it couldn't possibly last forever. Unfortunately many of our fans expect this level every season now. Oh to be that good again. It may take a while, but we'll be back.

  13. BADARSE

    Oct 15, 2014, 16:35 #59366

    Spaced and Rocky RIP, I address this post to you two, but it's obviously for all. I am going out on a limb a bit here, so try to stick with me as I try to explain. I'm not sure whether it was a distant awareness of the beauty of ballet-though I've seen some performances I am but a dilettante. I am a sucker for vistas, scenery, art, flowing lines, but mainly the mechanics of beautiful movement. I am enthralled when I see a perfect strike of a bat and ball, the magnificence of the synchronised movement of the perfect golf swing, a dive, a leap, anything in the genre. Sounds very high-blown but it's difficult to give an honest representation, and I know people will think me a twit for saying all this. Yet I always imagined how beautiful football could be. Seeing masters at work whetted this young boy's appetite. Sadly they were often in a swamp of ordinariness-which in itself was a remarkably high standard. Then came AW, and I saw beauty in football beyond my wildest dreams. It culminated with that Invincible season. It would be trite to say I can die happy having seen the magnificence of that squad, those players, but I will carry the memories always. They were an amazing set of artists, masters in their own right, who all came together in a moment in time. Make no excuses, no qualifications gentlemen, they were Invincible. And they were Arsenal.

  14. Rocky RIP

    Oct 15, 2014, 16:11 #59364

    @ Spaced - staggering isn't it? People manage to pick holes in the best side we've ever had. (The Invincibles tag came from the media anyway. For once rightly giving us praise as one of the best English club sides ever and a truly remarkable achievement of winning the title undefeated.)As a club we don't tend to trumpet on about ourselves, but if you're not happy with that season and those players and the football we played, well, seriously, you may as well do everyone a favour and give up and moan about taxes or the weather as you're never going to be satisfied. 'Have you ever seen football played like this? ...' was my favourite chant that season.

  15. Spaced

    Oct 15, 2014, 15:29 #59363

    Now it turns out we never were invincible. The negativity knows no bounds. . Glad I'm not you.

  16. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 15, 2014, 12:36 #59349

    Westlower, nice one, i'll look out for him next time, worth a few quid

  17. jjetplane

    Oct 15, 2014, 12:22 #59341

    GOONERON they were never actually invincible has they lost in everything else bar the league and the tag just got people's backs up which has eventually resulted in Wenger getting his ass kicked on numerous occasions. I love Arsenal and always will (having been born in spitting distance) but do not go for self praise and such tags usually infer an era is over. The best part of that time was rightly the first double - a fantastic experience topped with great last games/wins in the PL and FA. Ralph Lauren was a total giant. Let's hope Calum gets there.

  18. Ozzie

    Oct 15, 2014, 5:40 #59324

    jjetplane thanks for the supportive words, much appreciated, was beginning to wonder if anyone else would come out of hiding. No such luck! A perfect illustration of Arsenal's stagnation is that we have a 'protected species' or two, in our midst. Tis little white ants like Glenn who continually bore away at the wood that will eventually bring down the structure. Keep nibbling away in the dark, fellas. Maguiresbridge, I don't generally post under a different name but, being a foreigner couldn't resist that one :)

  19. GoonerRon

    Oct 14, 2014, 23:51 #59319

    @ jjetplane - 'the invincibles were ok' according to you. I mean why bother supporting any football club if that's how you regard a once-in-a-century achievement.

  20. Carlos

    Oct 14, 2014, 23:45 #59318

    @62602. The sense of entitlement I was referring to is one which comes from having to pay high prices to get into games. If you are paying a large amount to watch a match you should be entitled to better quality and a sense that the club is doing all it can to achieve the biggest prizes. When admission was cheaper, prior to the Premier League, my feeling is that fans were less demanding. It was not a blanket criticism of any age group.

  21. GBP

    Oct 14, 2014, 22:41 #59316

    N4 - Noted. Do us all a favour and change yr name to N17 and head off there smartish. Youre just made for being taken to their bosoms and loved, though youre probably one already!

  22. BADARSE

    Oct 14, 2014, 22:09 #59311

    Yeah, N4, and we keep getting people like you coming on here dishing out your nonsense. Touche!

  23. N4

    Oct 14, 2014, 21:24 #59304

    100% behind you! It's funny that the thruth hurts, that's you get the likes of badarse, westlower etc... keep coming on here to say it's ok to take sh*t from Wenger! Wenger recently admitted in his stubborn stnce that he still not regret signing Fabregas...Seriouslly...???!!! I'm like you I don't bother anymore with games or where we are on the table! Bard spot on at your first comments!

  24. Westlower

    Oct 14, 2014, 21:12 #59302

    @Bard Thanks for pointing out what power I possess in being able to hold the club back by posting my thoughts. That's impressive. Eat your heart out Superman! @Maguirebridge, You'll always be in my thoughts because Godolphin have named a horse Yodelling, who won on his debut. I automatically think of you whenever I see his name. Weird or what?

  25. BADARSE

    Oct 14, 2014, 19:59 #59298

    I keep trying to catch up with you Bard, yap, yap, down boy!

  26. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 14, 2014, 19:54 #59297

    Bard 62527, they must have went through three bars of soap already, yes well done Glenn i hope your working on your next one already, careful with the timing though.

  27. Bard

    Oct 14, 2014, 19:32 #59295

    Westie: I suffer from many things but delusions of grandeur isn't one of them. You're getting too hysterical, split fans bases dear old Peter Pan says I'm fanning the flames of anti Wengerism. It's a football site, I just post my opinion. I always get behind the team on sat and then criticize them afterwards if I think I need to. I could equally argue that you and others who so uncritically accept mediocrity are holding the club back but I don't, well not very often ! As you gathered I'm not a very patient man, especially when I fork out a fortune and think I'm been sold a pup

  28. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 14, 2014, 19:31 #59294

    Westlower, I'm glad to see i'm no longer been ignored I was getting worried there, i must be saying something right. I'm also glad to see you think nobody else has influence on all subjects mentioned(the laundry lady will be relieved) that must just leave YGL then. Like I've already said it's taken you and your ilk long enough to come up with this one, you really must be scraping now. I think you know very well that wasn't/isn't my or others( who don't support YGL) agenda and indeed i wrote a very long post on here a while ago stating how sad it was, and to see fans at each others throat,(I suppose that was one of the times we were stuffed so you wouldn't have read it) but if it fits in with yours in blaming everything and everyone for your messiah's failings feel free. Again I think you know very well indeed who and what is responsible for the split after all you and others have been defending him and his ways for long enough, but as has become common now among his apologists it's always someone else's fault. Nodding dogs if ever I saw any.

  29. BADARSE

    Oct 14, 2014, 19:22 #59293

    @Carlos, what 'change in football' do you refer to, which might propel a thirty-something to think this way? Then, my second question is, if you contrive a reasonable answer, how do you defend it as a casual oversight of others? The suggestion that younger people have 'a more developed sense of entitlement', actually means nothing. Think about it. I am older, therefore have a less developed sense of entitlement. What tosh! Most of the mess our society is in was created and caused by people my age, and they stand damned and accused by myself. They above most others clamoured for 'their' entitlement my friend. Sorry if my post seems a little angry, it isn't, but I have a real axe to grind with those who should have known better, and have cheated the young out of any worthwhile inheritance. Instead we serve up the dross-which includes the things disquieting fans of AFC-leaving them a legacy of superficiality, and pretence. A well-developed sense of entitlement, my arse! Jim Royale.

  30. Carlos

    Oct 14, 2014, 18:42 #59291

    Agree with a great deal of this. However, you did slip up when you let on how young you were, as those who were present when we were putting up with real nonsense in the 70's and 80's are giving you an old fashioned clip round the ear telling you you've never had it so good. They fail to take into account the change in football in the last 20 years and the fact that if you are going to charge ever more ludicrous prices to see the game, fans will be more demanding and have a more well developed sense of entitlement. How can we claim to be a top club when a manager who wins sol little is so secure in his job?

  31. GBP

    Oct 14, 2014, 17:46 #59287

    Why have we - you talk BS and say anything to suit yr agenda bud. A good few of us as nippers and our Dads loved it and hated it at the same time that we could often score 2 and concede 3 quite often yet win 5-0 the week after as Billy Wrights teams entertained and often lost! We loved Strong, Skirton and Eastham and Co but it never meant we thought Billy Wright walked on water. Thankfully old Billy had gone before i entered the hallowed stadium. Grow up and stop acting like a spoiled kid. Its yr conscience that seems to suffer. I'm quite happy in my skin win lose or draw. I dont need football to put the joy in my life. Its just an aside. If it made me like you, i wdt bother with it.COYG

  32. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 14, 2014, 17:17 #59283

    GBP- Clear? Well, seeing as you suddenly produced a display of world-class flip-flopping and morphed from someone who 'never rated TN as a manager from the start' into someone who 'actually liked Neill's teams' in order to avoid giving an honest answer to my question, then yes, all is probably crystal clear now thanks. Maybe you just thought Neill should walk and in the dark of the night would 'admit to thinking defeats might hasten his departure' (Post No.62453), eh?. Anything to ease your conscience and preserve your status as a Superfan, while the rest of us get on with the dirty work of trying to push the club into positive action. How everything changes and yet everything stays the same.

  33. Rocky RIP

    Oct 14, 2014, 17:12 #59282

    @ Why have we only .. - I've just spotted your Junior Gunner dig at me. Very amusing. For the record, Terry Neil was our manager when I first went to Highbury, but nice try.

  34. Bard

    Oct 14, 2014, 16:33 #59279

    Jim; don't get paranoid mate. Having said that I do like a good conspiracy theory. I do think all the refs have it in for us and there is a anti Arsenal agenda media. Of course that could be a load of b******S and we are just not very good.

  35. Don't believe Gazidis he is conman who is trying to con you all

    Oct 14, 2014, 16:00 #59277

    Gazidis is comparing us with Dortmund, Atletico while we are nowhere near their level it shows how bad the state the club are and what a fraud Gazidis is. We are the 5th richest club in the world so this comparison to Dortmund and A.Madrid is just more spin to make us feel we are in a difficult position like a small side going against the big side when that is not the case. The gap between dortmund and bayern is ridiculous massive in regard to financially and historically. …the same with A.Madrid and the Spanish big 2… However that is not the case with us in the premier league… We just have been extremely negligent and not spent what we have to give us the opportunity to succeed, have a manager who is no longer what we require and who effects so many things into the playing side…injuries, tactics, type of players we sign, data analysis etc that it hampers us. ..Don’t buy in the Gazidis the SPIN MASTER. ..just more SPIN from him

  36. Jim

    Oct 14, 2014, 15:55 #59275

    I always thought FJ was a spud,I remember reading he admitted it once. Maguirebridge has chav written all over him,with a few others on here a bit suspect too.

  37. DJ

    Oct 14, 2014, 15:33 #59272

    Talking of split support I think the atmosphere has improved at the Emirates over the last few seasons as if the supporters realise the team is struggling and we need to be more vocal. The only difference is the ‘One Arsene Wenger’ chat is seldom if ever heard these day as if it common knowledge our leader has lost his stardust. So we may have a split fan base on this site although I like to think mainly good natured (no names no pack drill!) when the team is playing and even when the team is struggling the fans stick together.

  38. GBP

    Oct 14, 2014, 15:25 #59270

    Gary - Fair points. The 8-2 was a thrashing waiting to happen with the players we had standing that day, though nobody thought 8 would be the outcome that day! They are a poor sequence and i agree the capitulations were bad and remain fresh in the mind. I was at quite a few of those reverses.Things do need improving Gary, i agree. Ive never said Wenger doesnt annoy and vex me at times. He does. He drives many of us to drink on away days (even more than we imbibe anyway!!). Is there better out there right now? I dont think there is. Ive said many times that i think Wenger is in the process of readying himself to pass the mantle to a new bloke. I think until then we should stick with what we have. Are things as bad as they're painted? I dont think they are. Is he a man past his best days? Probably. Those defeats still occurred in years that we reached top 4. Yes they hurt when they happen as you well know, same as me. We need the right man to take over though, not some thoughtless knee jerk sacking as many suggest. To do that wouldn't at this time in my view yield an immediate surge to get closer to City and Chelsea.

  39. GBP

    Oct 14, 2014, 15:14 #59268

    Westie - its Maguiresbridge's role in life to select the worst and most acidic moanie post and then just nod his head metronome fashion in agreement. He's like one of those little nodding dogs that drivers used to stand in the rear window of their cars years ago.

  40. Westlower

    Oct 14, 2014, 14:56 #59266

    @Maguiesbridge, Your influence on transfers, tactics, subs, results, humiliations is what exactly? Off course the Dark Moanies have caused the fan base split, wasn't that your agenda after all?

  41. GBP

    Oct 14, 2014, 14:27 #59260

    Why have we - i thought i had. No, i never wished for defeats, never would and actually liked Neill's teams. We had some great players. I never saw him as great Coach though as ive already said. Finally, no. I never made a big clamour for his removal. I went to 2 of the 3 straight Cup Finals and hoped for the best. In truth there was never any real on going clamour for his removal until the very end. Todays cyber bashers had no vehicle to pretend to be concerned fans back then. Clear now?

  42. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 14, 2014, 14:23 #59259

    I see the dark moonies are now been held responsible and blamed for the split in the fan base, (it was a while coming that one) I knew accepting responsibility for transfers, picking the teams, tactics, substitutions, results, and humiliations would come back to haunt them, I guess they should have just let OGL get on with it and sat on their hands and accepted them.

  43. BADARSE

    Oct 14, 2014, 14:16 #59257

    71guns, what a good name. Also an extremely respectful post, and very insightful-it was genuinely appreciated, but I am sure you can discern that from both my online persona, as well as my obvious post now. One thing, I didn't miss the point at all. It was as clear as a bell that Glenn wants AW to go. My reaction, response, reply, was to his rancour of wanting Arsenal to lose, no more. Thank you again, though. A nice post.

  44. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 14, 2014, 14:15 #59256

    GBP- You didn't answer my question. Have another stab at it.

  45. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 14, 2014, 14:02 #59255

    71Guns, excellent post, you should have saved it for an article, and I love the word plodding very under used and very apt indeed.

  46. Bard

    Oct 14, 2014, 13:54 #59254

    Jim, We will have to disagree on the first as I dont consider that a good return let alone evidence of competing. As you declined to answer the other two questions, I presume you dont believe we are nearer to winning anything and dont think we will win anything under Wenger. Spaced, Im all for being patient, the trouble is in the long run we are all dead.

  47. GBP

    Oct 14, 2014, 13:52 #59253

    Spaced - youre asking these people to 'think between the lines' over this issue. Youre asking them not to see things as either black or white with a large gulf between the 2 extremes. They're incapable and/or unwilling. Its their negativism and propensity to moan and groan that gives them a reason to sustain their place on this web site and maybe even to add meaning to their lives in some cases based on what we read on here. There are none so blind as they who don't want to see.

  48. GBP

    Oct 14, 2014, 13:42 #59252

    Why have we - there are NO parallels with Neill. I never rated TN as a manager from the start in truth but his Cup runs sustained him. There was no top 4 then but it was plain as day that TN wasn't going to propel us to titles well before his removal. We do challenge under AW. We are the Cup holders and have been in 3 other finals since 2005 inc a CL Final. We are established in the CL. I believe that we can win the title under AW and theres little to suggest we cant. 7 pts only away last Season. Hes a great Coach and one that we should appreciate. Hes flawed like all of them but great nontheless. You can believe what you like. Ive followed us since 1968 by the way.Some of you guys have no concept of when the team doesn't challenge. As you clearly were an adult at least in the 80s, your take on matters as they are now is hard to discern, esp if you're now so desperate to liken today's situation to that of 1983. Unreal.If that's your rationale to sack AW, you need to do better. We all know you have no case. COYG

  49. Westlower

    Oct 14, 2014, 13:39 #59251

    @Maguiresbridge, These current posts have been off the back off a 0-2 defeat at the Bridge. It may not qualify as a stuffing but it's the only PL defeat since April 6th so your perception is wide of the mark. I doubt anyone on this site worships AW, yet another misconception touted by some to justify their points of view. If AW is shown the door at the shareholders meeting after Stan concedes the club is going to hell in a cart under Wengers misguided management who is immediately available to come in? Moyes, Pulis, Curbishley, Solskjaer. No thanks, I'm happy to stick with Wenger until the club decides to appoint a new manager.

  50. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 14, 2014, 13:26 #59249

    Foreigner, don't think so mate, more like, Eats onions.

  51. Spaced

    Oct 14, 2014, 13:14 #59248

    What I find interesting is that the anti-Wenger mob love to label the opposition as diametrically opposed AKBs. You would happily label me as an AKB purely because I do not think he should leave. I don't think I have ever met an AKB and I'm not sure one exists. Just because I don't want him to leave just yet does not mean I worship the ground he walks on. He annoys me too, I think he has shortcomings too... but all managers do. And if you scrutinise them all in the same way you do Wenger, you are likely to find you would become anti- them too. .. The way I see the situation at the moment is this - We are emerging from a barren period where finances have been tight (new stadium etc), we are starting to spend some money and have just realised our first trophy. So things are looking positive to me for those reasons. I am happy that we don't rush out and spend all our money in one go (like certain other teams we shan't speak of), but bide our time a little and spend wisely. We are after all in this for the long run, are we not (Glenn?). So this brings me to the Wenger question... yes, I do think he is the best guy for the job at the moment. He has a track record and has yet to fail us in champions league qualification (through the lean period). He is far from perfect, but he is stable (which counts for a lot) and more than capable of growing a championship winning team yet again. So there you have it, I'm not a Wenger worshipper, just someone who still considers him the right man for the job. Are there better managers? Most certainly. Do I want one to come to Arsenal for a 2/3 year stint then bugger off? Not really. I want what's best for my beloved Arsenal. Come on you Gunners, I want you to win all the games!

  52. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 14, 2014, 13:11 #59247

    DW, yes isn't it, I don't know what they'd have done if the article was after a stuffing they wouldn't have got a chance as they wouldn't have been here at all.

  53. jjetplane

    Oct 14, 2014, 12:40 #59244

    BBC website - first mention in a heading of '.. Wenger exit ...'. This is how it works. A discourse is promoted and starts to become a norm. From exit to exits. Wonder if he will have the same problem finding his way out as he did finding a staircase at Wembley. You could not make it up. Forward with Arsenal. Not even half way through the three year sweetener and the boys upstairs are getting restless. Laugh - the excitement is gathering pace as the light moves around the moon and the darkness begins to lift from our proud selves. GLENN may have written a bit of history here. Now you need to do a book.

  54. Hiccup

    Oct 14, 2014, 12:35 #59243

    These articles really should come with an AKB Health Warning. Come on Online Gooner, play the game. Look at the distress and furore it's created on here. Can we please have a nicey nice article next, where everything is rosey in the land of head in the sands.

  55. jjetplane

    Oct 14, 2014, 12:18 #59242

    GoONER RON the Invincibiles were OK but did Arsenal no favours in the long run. It has led to what is on the plate now. A stagnant, complacent, backward culture that is in a sense anti-football. love the way you blokes (westie GBP) drone on about the misery of the dark moanies and yet it is the AKB posters who are like little rats in a cage. OZZIE love your posts - it's like having RON back. GLENN - job done mate. Lot a larfs on here so that's a good thing. Always fun watching the meltdowns that occur with each new wind. Will the Hull creak/or sail through .... Hilarious! ps ooh 2 b ah proper goona ....

  56. Exeter Gunner

    Oct 14, 2014, 11:49 #59241

    To those saying there is no need to put a case for Wenger's continuation - why don't you do it anyway? Indulge us. It doesn't have to be a 'defence' of Wenger. Just tell us why you see him as the man to take us forward from here, what changes you believe he is putting or is about to put in place to mean we'll be able to go from where we are now to a team that puts in sustained challenges for the title that last until the end of the season and goes deeper into the CL. I look forward to such an article.

  57. 71guns

    Oct 14, 2014, 11:41 #59239

    Badarse you're missing the point old boy, whilst of course I don't want to see us lose I think what Glenn is trying to say is we need a change, we've been plodding along for long enough and whilst CL football will balance the books for the football supporter it will never be enough. We need to be able to compete otherwise whats the point? Year after year we either stumble/ or cruise through the group depending on who's in it and then get comprehensively beaten in the knock out stage (with the occasional valiant effort - AC Milan a couple of years ago). It's not the case of expecting to win everything always but rather because we were so good 10 years ago we've gradually and painfully let it slip away. Unlike at Man Ure where (under hair dryers management) players would come and go and apart from Ronaldo it was always for the good of the team. We didn't replace before agreeing to let players leave (modric wanted to leave the spuds and was told no and played well for another season)nasri wants to go he goes, fabregas went too cheaply and as for RVP that was beyond stupid, Juventus offered 12 mil but the sensible option was to take 21 from Utd and assist their winning of the title? It's ridiculous. When Rooney was unhappy we enquired and Wengers alleged 12 mil was laughed at but the truth is if it was 35 mil the result would have been the same - you don't sell your best players to your rivals. Silvestre was past it and Wellbeck couldn't get in their team (although I think that may prove to be a good move). So now we've become a resident top 4 side, a status that most would accept but we are Arsenal and our fall from grace under Wengers nose is a bitter pill to swallow, I understand some of it is out of his control but bad management is also to blame. No plan b, last season 3-0 down to city, liverpool and chelsea and we're on the attack... oh no its 4... 5... Players like Bendtner, Gervinho, and currently Sanago are just not good enough but we have to suffer them all for far longer than we should. Finally it seemed the penny had dropped and Ozil was brought in, to this point he has failed miserably not Wengers fault but it is when he's being carried yet remains on the pitch. And lets not forget the player that Madrid sold was a luxury player many of his goals coming when the team was winning comfortably - the "give it to the 43 million pound man" line was never going to work. Sanchez was a good buy, chambers looks good as does debuchy but we again stopped short of what we needed. Injuries are also a concern, we have too many out too often but even when they are fit i'm not sure we are getting the best from them and that has to come back to the manager, if you're under performing and yet still on the team sheet what message does that send to the rest of the team and the fans? I understand as someone wrote on here a few years back that wengers scouting ability in the early days was similar to george grahams in that they picked up the likes of steve bould and alan smith or thierry henry of patrick vierra for peanuts when unknown but later on the bubble burst and teams wanted top dollar for their undiscovered talent so we walked away and instead ended up with the likes of chris kywomya's and eddie mcgoldrick and today yaya sanago. Giroud isn't a bad player but it that what we want? Badarse I do respect your comments, in some ways they are similar to my fathers but will you be taking the same stance in 5 years if nothings changed - if your car drives smoothly but can't get out of 3rd gear you would either get it fixed or buy a new car. We were rebuilding in 2005, 9 years on it's still a work in progress and thats not good enough.

  58. DJ

    Oct 14, 2014, 11:12 #59237

    Exeter Gunner hits the nail on the head about the situation we now find ourselves. Not good enough to challenge the top two but too good to finish outside the four as I think will happen again this season. So it depends what side of the fence you sit on, marvel at our consistency or be bemused by our lack of ambition. Football by its very nature is meant to be unpredictable yet Arsenal have become very predictable over the past few seasons. It will be interesting to see what happens at the shareholders meeting on Thursday, I reckon there will be some disquiet then Arsene will stand up give one of his ‘every thing in the garden is rosy’ speeches and will get a standing ovation! Again very predictable………………

  59. Jim

    Oct 14, 2014, 11:04 #59236

    Bard,You always say you're only interested in competing now you turn to trophies.Last ten years 2 FA Cups 2 League Cup finals 1 Champions League Final.Runners up in league once plus 4 points off champions in 2008,that's competing.As far as ticket prices are concerned Arsenal are the biggest club in the biggest city in Europe who play in arguably the best stadium in Europe so you can't expect Wigan prices .Only half a dozen games a season are expensive and most season tickets are only £1,000 for 26 games.Arsenal could cash in far more if they really wanted and are far better value than the spuds who charge the same.I don't see any team ahead of us in football ability,maybe a couple are more efficient so yes why not win more trophies under Wenger.

  60. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 14, 2014, 10:50 #59234

    GBP- Given that you wanted Neill gone, can you honestly say there was never a time towards the end when you thought to yourself 'Look, this guy's taking us nowhere, a couple of defeats now would probably be handy to see him off so we could start a fresh and take the club forward'? Honestly? If you were a Junior Gunner as Rocky RIP is now then I believe you, but if you were a proper grown up in 1983, I don't. And you're STILL trying to peddle the financial straightjacket myth?? Wow, I thought even Wenger's most devoted disciples had given that one up! But I'm sure AKBs will always be able to invent enough unnecessary questions in their heads to justify keeping their man in his £8m job despite not seriously challenging for anything worth winning for the past 8 seasons.

  61. Bard

    Oct 14, 2014, 10:41 #59232

    Jim, how many trophies have we won in the last decade? Do you think we are nearer to winning anything now than we were 5 years ago? Do you think we will win anything under Wenger ? Do you think that is good enough in the light of charging the highest prices in the PL?Good luck with those Jim looking forward to your reply.

  62. Exeter Gunner

    Oct 14, 2014, 10:22 #59231

    It's not that we're in a bad period in AFC's history, it's that we're in an exasperating period. The same mistakes, the same patterns repeated season after season. No chance of that changing because the patterns aren't recognised as such. So round and round we go. That's where the 'but we always get top 4 and there have been worse periods in our history' defences fall down. It's not bad, it's exasperating.

  63. Jim

    Oct 14, 2014, 9:59 #59230

    The Wenger out folk are bigger history changers than the spuds.Get back to school you dreamers and wait till you grow up before you give us your opinions.

  64. Arsenal fans are the only reason why Wenger is still manager

    Oct 14, 2014, 9:49 #59229

    Wenger is the worst manager in the league. He has no clue about management. His teams have zero organization, plan and everything is improvised by the players. Even Southampton have a better manager who sends out his team well drilled. This is all the fault of the season ticket holders. They should have booed and kicked him out of the stadium years ago. Even now these season ticket holders sing his name. They deserve Wenger and everything they get. Look at United fans got rid of Moyes after half a season. They have proper fans unlike Arsenal fans at the stadium who allow Wenger to get away with it and even praise him for it. Lol enjoy your Wenger. You belong with each other.

  65. GBP

    Oct 14, 2014, 9:48 #59228

    Bard - you really do love in a dreamland thinking that the case for AW to stay needs rigorously setting out on here. The world of football recognises Arsene as one of the top coaches in the game, as do we who back him. His record and his work speaks for it self to those who've the intelligence to see it.I think the professional footballing community have a slightly better vista of these things than a few deranged, myopic, self obsessive whingers on a message board that nobody reads.

  66. Jim

    Oct 14, 2014, 9:19 #59227

    How can anybody say Arsenal don't compete.Over the last eight seasons we have the third highest finish average in the Premiership.1.Manure (2.0) 2.Chelsea (2.8) 3.Arsenal (3.6) 4.Liverpool (4.9) 5.Citeh (5.6) 6.Scum (6.0) 7.Everton (6.1).You glory hunters want evidence there it is.Stop attacking BADARSE and Westlower they're proper gooners.I will take any of you on if evidence is what you want.

  67. GoonerRon

    Oct 14, 2014, 9:19 #59226

    @jjetplane - so you became indifferent to Arsenal's results in 2005 - the year after we went the league season unbeaten, the same year we won the FA Cup and the year before we got to our first ever European cup final? Blimey. You and Glenn should sit rocking back and forth in a dark room together.

  68. Westlower

    Oct 14, 2014, 9:15 #59225

    Imagine we lose all our games as requested by Glenn & Wenger is sacked on Christmas eve as a present to all us distraught Gooners. On Jan 1st the club announce they have appointed the tactically astute David Moyes or 'safe hands' Roy Hodgson what would the reaction of Gooners be????

  69. Westlower

    Oct 14, 2014, 8:45 #59224

    Bard, Suppose we all agreed that Wenger must go by Christmas, do you really believe that Wenger will walk out half way through a season and only a sixth of a way through a contract? Alternatively do you honestly believe the board will sack him in the next 3 months? His compensation package alone would be £20m+. Even if I believed he should go by Christmas I don't see the point of moaning & groaning on a daily basis about the guy. His time at AFC is drawing to a close so why not content yourself that it'll happen in the fullness of time regardless of the continual squealing of some. The Dark Moanies stance is anti Arsenal, causing a split among the fan base which is unhelpful to the cause of the club. Dark Moanies are vexations of the spirit at AFC.

  70. Ozzie

    Oct 14, 2014, 8:44 #59223

    G'day Baddie. 'Proud to be arrogant' are YOUR words. Here you go again - dressing up someone else's post to suit your own agenda. Read back & find the word 'proud' but seeing as you have selective vision I will repeat... I am not ashamed of it. There! Unlike you I am always prepared to acknowledge and admit my own shortcomings. I don't feel threatened by you but I do get annoyed at the way you subtly continually diminish other people's views before promoting your own. If you were genuine about your 'listen & learn a bit more.' you would do so but to so may be a bit beneath you. You do give the impression that no one can tell you anything - you always have the answer. You know, the 'two faced ones' come from your own head. Yes, enough said. I still enjoy reading you and have no hard feelings toward you. COYG! Have a good day.

  71. Jim

    Oct 14, 2014, 8:35 #59222

    Very few proper Gooners on here and BADARSE is definately one.I wouldn't accept anyone as a fan who wants to see the Gunners lose and are very sceptical of our younger supporters especially the under 40's.

  72. Bard

    Oct 14, 2014, 8:27 #59221

    Glen you have really got some on here in a lather. Well done mate. We have the had the im a better fan than you argument, weve had the disloyalty post, also a F off down to upton park, thats a new one and a variety of meaningless historical posts. Most of them are about as persuasive and insightful as one of Jamie s gem. Oddly enough there isnt one outlining why Wenger should stay or indeed why we should get behind him. Over to Westie for the odds on one being posted before Christmas, how about 100/1?

  73. BADARSE

    Oct 14, 2014, 7:51 #59220

    Ozzie-'proud to be arrogant'. Wearing that as an outlook presents the pictures you want to see, and the conclusions you arrive at. You are arrogant and admit it, I am accused of pomposity, and am not-a subtle difference. I know what I know, which is miniscule, but along with life's experiences can offer something more than some. If you know more, then generally the person explains the error to me, and I listen and learn a little more. If they feel threatened they try to take me down, but only feel threatened and attempt a demolition job when my view doesn't concur with their outlook. If I speak for some others, they probably are quite happy for me to slay a few dragons on their behalf, especially two-faced ones, the ones most to avoid.Enough said.

  74. divingrooney

    Oct 14, 2014, 7:15 #59219

    Son, you in the last stages of depression. Unless you see a shrink, you are a prime candidate for suicide. Arsenal is just a football club, and football is just a game. Forget about it, and concentrate on something useful in your life.

  75. Foreigner

    Oct 14, 2014, 5:34 #59218

    62523, it means Toni and he eats smartarses for breakfast.

  76. Whats Etonian?

    Oct 14, 2014, 5:24 #59217

    Hey guys a foreign supporter have seen Etonian mentioned many times? What does it actually mean?

  77. Ozzie

    Oct 14, 2014, 3:07 #59216

    Baddie, yes, you do reveal a lot about yourself - if alone in how you put people down who you consider to be less intellectual than yourself - no pompous? Yes, I am arrogant and not ashamed to admit it. I refer you to an earlier post about the big fish in the little pond who gets fat feeding off all the minnows, as in this instance such is my reply to you and your couple of henchmen who delight in pulling down the 'Glenns' who are at variance with your delusions. Seeing as my comment about no one listening to you at home triggered a tad of touchieness we'll leave it at that, then, but don't come the emotional crap with me, chum, I'll accommodate you anytime - like you say, I am arrogant. I used to be in a bubble like yours, once, so I know where you're at and I sympathise with you but I do recommend you go to a large lake and take on some of the big fish - or is that out of your depth? Would be a bit much your ego being challenged, would it not?

  78. Th14afc

    Oct 13, 2014, 23:59 #59215

    A lot of sense been talked by badarse & rocky RIP....not so much from fj

  79. Jim

    Oct 13, 2014, 23:39 #59214

    A lot of Gunners fans cite Herbert Chapman as a man who new how to defend.Not so! In fact Arsenal hold the record of 39 games without keeping a clean sheet in 1930-31. Chapman like Wenger loved to attack and despite having a terrible defence that season Arsenal lifted the title by scoring 127 goals.In fact the myth about Arsenal having a good defence in the past is exactly that,a myth.In fact with the exception of Bertie Mee and on occasions George Graham all historical Arsenal teams were known for their attacking qualities and not their defending.

  80. DW Thomas

    Oct 13, 2014, 23:31 #59213

    Always funny how the AKBs get so fired up when this type of article gets put on the site. So predictable. Know whats not? Arsene. He will continue the same mantra/dogma for more years until cash is no longer king. Sell our best players, pile up injuries, fail at tactics, etc, etc. Even Everton can play better than us at times! I don't agree with wanting us to lose, but I totally understand why some see that as the route for change. Profits over real success. If Ozil leaves, the Cesc decision goes down as one of the dumbest on record. I think he never should have been sold. We should have strengthened the team around him! But, no, that requires forward thinking. Something this club can't manage and doesn't give 2 s..ts about. The glaring lack of depth is repeated/allowed year in year out now. Yet, the fans don't care enough to demand change. And that is truth. Too many accept the mediocrity. Where else at a top club does that happen for now on 10 years? Nowhere!

  81. Charlie

    Oct 13, 2014, 23:19 #59212

    spot on indeed

  82. Rocky RIP

    Oct 13, 2014, 21:50 #59211

    'The fight until the end mentality that doesn't actually exist'. Now, I'm not claiming Arsenal have the level of fighting spirit or mental strength I'd love (I hanker for a team with a Tony Adams in it too.)Defending slender makes me fear for my health these days based on gutless capitulations such as the 4-4 draw with Spu*s. But, the list of examples where we have 'fought until the end' to battle back is pretty lengthy. Coming from behind to snatch a draw or battling to victory with a last minute goal constitutes 'fighting until the end' in my book. Vermaelen with the 95th minute winner v Newcastle; Ramsey in the 90th minute v Palace; Bendtner's winner in the dying seconds v Cardiff; Giroud to snatch a draw in the last minute v Everton having been 2-0 down with 10 mins left etc, etc. (PS. Thanks for the comments chaps.)

  83. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 21:38 #59210

    On the subject of today's mentality and external influences powering the game of yesterday, I did think of you recently 24601. The Roy Keane story regarding a job offer to that clown Savage with his inane voicemail message, and how Keane just put the phone down saying, 'I couldn't f***ing be doing with that!' or something similar. He who would be king.

  84. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 21:19 #59209

    You are a funny boy Hiccup, I know you are alluding to something with sex in it, 'it's existentialism', isn't it? Well I don't subscribe to that altogether, if I did it would mean some on here are exercising free will, and I can't go along with that-though jjetplane might. Oh, apologies Hiccup. I have scanned back and reread my post regarding those two ladies. Incidentally, both think the world of me, and both are nice people. One is an Arsenal fan, but a tepid one, a bit like some on here, and the other is a Sour, and you've guessed it-a bit like some on here. Good old Arsenal, good old waggly ones

  85. Westlower

    Oct 13, 2014, 21:15 #59208

    Good job some of these so called supporters weren't around in 1925 to 1929 as Herbert Chapman didn't win anything until 1930/31. They would have condemned Herbert as a lost cause for not winning silverware in the first 5 years of his managerial reign. There would have been a huge void in our history if he had been prematurely sacked due to lack of early success. AFC should be eternally grateful SKY TV, celeb pundits & onlinegooner didn't exist back then.

  86. GBP

    Oct 13, 2014, 21:14 #59207

    Rocky - wonderfully put. The best post on this thread and of many threads before. Your words might strike a chord with a few but alas not too many of them i fear. Football supporting has become a cyber and TV dominated activity as opposed to a match going and newspaper one of yesteryear. The numbers of purely destructive critics can sit at their keyboards in the warm now as the team and properly disposed fans sit it out in the winter nights at grounds everywhere. Many hardly ever see a real live match, maybe never intending to do so, yet such is the funding for the game that jobs and playing careers are ended by these people some times. (look what they did to young Cleverley and where its left him? A career in limbo vis the twatter fraternity having fun, growling and spitting their venom at him and high 5 ing each other as they did it. I praise our Board for seeing through such flimsy and spineless types. The same thing by and large goes on here by our own so called 'fans'. The majority arent fans though as many of us have gathered a while since. Baddie - some times you need to meet fire with fire. Its always been my motto my friend, esp when youre in a corner faced with a lot of mindless howling jackals. How do you think Wenger has survived? Think Henry V at Agincourt matey as opposed to the Titus Andronicus leanings amongst many on here.

  87. Hiccup

    Oct 13, 2014, 21:03 #59206

    Don't panic Baddie, your secret's safe on here. It's fine for blokes to have female friends in this day and age. The game's moved on from the good old days.

  88. GBP

    Oct 13, 2014, 20:53 #59205

    It was Walsall wasnt it. All those bosses needed to go though. None had just won a Cup a few months before and all presided over clear and unequivocal stagancy. We differ on here on whether the stagnancy or rooted decline actually exists. The Board in my view must ask themselves the same question yet dont see as it does as i dont see it. I see lots of questions that need answering and see many things in Wenger that vex me. Do such facets of his style lead me to think hes needs ousting unceremoniously? Not at all. Despte the bar room accountantls than wander the corridors of this site, we need to see that the cash shackles have unfettered him as many like to think already and then judge our Coach. Until them he needs backing even if you and others do doubt him in my view. Not, lets lose games. Such a sentiment said vis where the Club is happens to be the lowest sentiment expressed on here yet and there has been a few amongst some of you guys.

  89. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 20:50 #59204

    I rarely commend westlower, it kind of tarnishes him through association with me, and I wouldn't wish that on a soul. I have sensed the powerful emotions beneath the posted words though-GBP is a more aggressive and 'ready to mix it' type, who like myself, sometimes courts it. Yet to read your words young Rocky RIP, fills me up. Yes change can be wished for, required even, but to go down this road signifies that we become almost different species. Well said Rocky RIP, would expect nothing less with a name like that. 'Remember who you are, what you are, and who you represent!' It applies to fans too.

  90. jjetplane

    Oct 13, 2014, 20:42 #59203

    WESTIE you don't sound like Arsenal to me - just a bloke who googles up Arsenal history and then drones on with a few numbers attached. You and your ilk are tiresome and you are holding Arsenal back from a great modern adventure. Don't ever waste my time ha ha I have always liked FJ and have always said it. Just one question old bean - 'Where's the playground Susie?' Looks like our mate GLENN is having the predictably desired effect on you lot Go GLENN! you proper gooner who looks to the future.

  91. maguiresbridge gooners

    Oct 13, 2014, 20:41 #59202

    Disappear to upton park, there you are, proof that's if any was needed of our ambitions and how far our expectations have fallen under the Emirates Bobo.

  92. Rocky RIP

    Oct 13, 2014, 20:39 #59201

    @ Westlower - spot on. We all share varying degrees of frustration, but want Arsenal to lose? Never. In a million years. Think it? No way. Admit to thinking it? Forget it. Write an article admitting as such and post it on an Arsenal forum - Staggering. Turning one's back on a club you claim to support because champions league qualification and an FA Cup win isn't good enough is the act of a glory rider. Deigning to return when things improve is the act of someone who doesn't appear to grasp the life sentence without parole that is the existence of a football fan. It's mostly misery for 98% of clubs if you look purely at the trophy haul. I agree something needs to change at Arsenal and despair at modern football and share the disillusionment sometimes, but really, have things become THAT bad?

  93. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 20:35 #59200

    Hiccup, I have no idea what you are talking about. A rehash, I questioned the young man's approach and suggested if he uses the same criteria in all things he will have a life of disappointments. If of course he doesn't, and his approach to AFC is different and random, well he may have a happy life. My experience is it's very difficult to split things in two. If a certain circumstance results in a certain reaction, then when repeated a similar result ensues. Whether it be persona or abstractions, then that is physics. entertaining the concept that being an AFC fan makes for a friend is of course absolute nonsense. The insulting trash from some on here, thrown at myself, is something to support that view. The rest of the post is really confusing, it is bad enough trying to understand jjetplane, then doubly disappointing when you do. I am very confused. Now what is this John Terry wag? Waggle, woggle, wiggle? Getting to first base? Is this baseball now? Agree with whom? Are you hot? Perhaps, but not sure. Have you a cold? I can't tell with typed words. Can you please explain?

  94. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 13, 2014, 20:33 #59199

    GBP- I was under the North Bank roof that night the police had to separate pro/anti Terry Neill factions (Walsall or West Brom, can't remember), and he was gone soon after. Don deserved his chance, he was a great coach but not a good manager, then George came along and the rest is history. Although judging by comments, if some on here had had their way, 'Yes it's gone in, it's Charlie!', Anfield 89, the almost Invincibles, the first English cup double and wonderful wonderful Copenhagen would never have happened. PS Feel free to correct my understanding of anything, anytime.

  95. Westlower

    Oct 13, 2014, 20:17 #59198

    Any 'supporter' who detach themselves from the teams results is by definition no longer a supporter. To rejoin the club only when there success is a cowardly form of support. If you have crossed the line and wish your team to lose then please stay in the wilderness you have created for yourselves. @JJ Don't you ever doubt my commitment to AFC. It was you who admitted to throwing in the towel in 2005. In my eyes that makes you an ex Gooner.

  96. Jason B

    Oct 13, 2014, 20:16 #59197

    Glenn, you sound like a West Ham fan in disguise. Many of my friends and family follow the Hammers and sound just like you. Disappear to Upton Park, you'll feel right at home there!!

  97. Hiccup

    Oct 13, 2014, 20:13 #59196

    Baddie, think I've missed the next bus too. Don't see your point? Transport us all back 10 years when we all thought wenger was the best thing since sliced bread, and what do we all talk about? There'll always be something. And even when things are going fine we can still be critical without the need to be called a spurs fan. I still remember that cup tie at old Trafford when giggs missed an open goal and we won. Wenger played his full team bar Henry. I never got the point of it and back then was critical of that decision but was still behind wenger. And just because someone is an arsenal fan doesn't adhere me to them as a friend. I have arsenal colleagues at work that I wouldn't want to spend any more time with than necessary. I hope your missus don't mind your friendships with these John Terry wags? A bit of advice. If you want to get to next base, just try agreeing with something they say once in a while. Now I am making some deductions here Baddie. Am I hot or cold? Very, very cold?

  98. GBP

    Oct 13, 2014, 20:07 #59195

    Badarse - I love FJ. Sadly my friend i think you have him wrong. Hes a teaser, a torment and loves to wind up. Hes never offensive to anybody directly but mainly, there's often shards of truth in what he says, even for us who back Wenger. Hes funny too. Basically, FJ though you, like me dont agree with him is intelligent hence hes a stand alone voice, barring the odd other WOB s on here. FJ is ok by me as hes often tickled with his brand of dry caricaturist barbs. The herd on here could learn much from him, though they never do. Carry on FJ!

  99. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 13, 2014, 19:56 #59194

    Bard, Hiccup, yes we're constantly been told on here it is what it is, so support the team(even though we do)this is It we have OGL for three more years, (that doesn't mean we have to accept it and put up with it and a hell of a lot haven't and wont) so get behind him and the team he's going nowhere bla bla. And like you've said Bard (and on more that one occasion too) we've never had an article well a proper one anyway telling, explaining, giving us a reason WHY we should get behind and give our support to OGL for the remainder of his rein, and I doubt we will because as we all know there's none.

  100. GBP

    Oct 13, 2014, 19:46 #59193

    Westie - 6 defenders understanding of art history is far more ropey than his geo-socio history, believe me! theres this and JJ - with his 'i gave up at Highbury' and the AKB s are the 'bitterites', though we re the only positives on here and the others with their 'lets lose every match' mentality. Theres some real pearls of the desperate on here today, topped off by those now shouting that its the supporters of Wenger and the FAC winners that need to create a main post justify the coach of that team remaining in situ. Quote Jeff here, you cd make it up. Its gets funnier, the more desperate they get. Keep em coming guys.

  101. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 19:29 #59192

    Th14afc, an incredible approach, but congratulated and mirrored by many on here today. Odd. You read criticisms by Finsbury Joe, and by other posters and they are the same. My questions are, does FJ exist? Is he one of the other posters? How can it be OK to rebuke FJ and not someone else saying the same thing? All very confusing, especially when a critical fan criticises FJ, for criticising AW, over the same thing that poster and his cohorts criticise AW for? Odd, odd!

  102. Th14afc

    Oct 13, 2014, 19:19 #59191

    I totally disagree with you Glenn....I can't get my head around anyone who says they want arsenal to lose yet claim to support them,it beggars belief...I bet u didn't celebrate the fa cup win either as it meant 3 more years of wenger,unbelievable....u say u wud pretty much rather hav any manager than wenger in charge,I won't even start with that comment

  103. Finsbury Joe

    Oct 13, 2014, 19:10 #59190

    Only the most deluded of AKBs could disagree with the sentiment of this article. But with wenger in partnership with kronke, losing has become a habit. See arsenal have appointed the great Brian MCDermott to a scouting role. A nice cheap manager option for Kronke when wenger departs?

  104. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 19:09 #59189

    Think you missed it Hiccup, but don't worry, another one will be along in a few minutes-or perhaps not. Here's a new one for you then. What if we, as in the group of myself, Spaced, JAMIE, PETE, westlower, GoonerRon, Rocky RIP, GBP, chris, DJ, and a few others suddenly announced, 'Yeah, we think it's time for AW to go.', what then? Where do we take discussions, debates, objectives, points of view? Thing is with most things in life, people polarise, and form loose and fragile relationships. You might have nowt in common with a chap but because he wants AW to go, he becomes a buddy. Conversely a chap who has bundles of similarities is cast as a villain because he doesn't. That is peculiar to me. I know two women, were classmates decades ago. One stole the other's boyfriend and now are mortal enemies. Each wants to pull the other to pieces about all things when the second is absent. She is dissuaded regularly-it is mirrored with the other. Which I again have no complaints about-it's their judgements, their lives. Funny thing is, I am one of their favourite people-naturally! The joke is, apart from that one piece of poor judgement they are almost identical. I chat and disagree independently over music, literature, actors, politics, religion-in fact you name it-with both. To continue with the theme, I am poles apart from the pair of them. Odd, isn't it?

  105. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 13, 2014, 19:05 #59188

    Hiccup 62474, nice one free curry for you at your local tonight, lets hope OGL's not cooking.

  106. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 13, 2014, 18:49 #59187

    DJ, congrats mate, we've all been there, but there's been enough clowning about with silly sketches and plays on here for a while, so lets get back to business discussing the biggest Basil Fawltey, Sid James, Captain Mainwaring, Stan Laurel, Clown of them all holding this great club back wenger.

  107. Hiccup

    Oct 13, 2014, 18:42 #59186

    Baddie, I didn't deduce anything. I leave that to you. You've pointed out that because Glenn isn't happy with arsenal as they are today, he must go through life generally unsatisfied. Rather insulting. I just asked a question which you've called a flawed deduction? However, I notice you do go on to scientifically explain how you came to your point of view of Glenn which validates your judgement, which in no way can be flawed I suppose? Going forward, if I ever want to make assumptions of how you live your life, I'll clearly highlight it and try and back it up with some flawless mathematical proof.

  108. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 13, 2014, 18:38 #59185

    Westlower- Can't take the credit mate, it's a quote by Orson Welles in The Third Man, but I was just making a point about....oh don't worry.

  109. Westlower

    Oct 13, 2014, 18:14 #59184

    6 defenders, Having worked in both countries you have seriously underestimated the Swiss.

  110. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 13, 2014, 18:08 #59183

    Westlower- In Italy, for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love, they had 500 years of democracy and peace - and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

  111. Nick T

    Oct 13, 2014, 17:59 #59182

    Fair play to you Glenn, you've only highlighted what I suspect many of us have pondered for a while now and not suprisingly its attracted quite a response! I definately believe Wenger's time is up and, although I don't go along with change for the sake of it, I find it hard to be believe that a club of our stature and resources could not find a manager who could do much better - especially in areas such as the transfer market, tactics and perhaps most importantly in maximising the potential of the current crop. My main reason for posting, however, was to ask why people such as Westlower etc... dont simply submit an article supporting Wenger? Whilst I would like to see change I'd be very interested to read genuine pro-Wenger arguments.....perhaps your right and I along with an increasing number of supporters have completely missed something but simply harping on about the past or abusing other posters/supporters and telling them to go and support the unwashed is not an argument/defence and frankly quite pathetic. Why should any supporter have there allegiance questioned because they have different views on a subject!!

  112. Westlower

    Oct 13, 2014, 17:55 #59181

    Which is worse, stop attending games & wishing the team to lose to satisfy a selfish agenda or carrying on supporting the team, warts and all? Surely disaffected fans who agitate for change & disruption are the biggest cause of a split fan base.

  113. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 13, 2014, 17:45 #59180

    Red Member- I'm sure we were all Westlowers 8,6, even 4 years ago, but given that most of us are grown-ups, our opinion on whether Wenger is still the right man for the job has changed according to changing circumstance and performance within the game. For decades after his departure, whenever Arsenal fans meet in person or on messageboards any conversation will eventually and inevitably turn to Arsene Wenger, and such has been the acrimony of the past few years amongst fans wherever you look, they will always be judged by their fellow fans against their views of this period, and of the manager. It's tragic when you think of what he achieved in his early years, but Wenger's most enduring legacy will be a bitterly divided fanbase.

  114. Bard

    Oct 13, 2014, 17:37 #59179

    Hiccup; It must be because fans don't really believe that Wenger is the way forward. As I have said Kev must be tearing his hair out waiting for positive posts to be submitted but clearly there are none. At the risk of soundly overly dramatic, I guess we all know its the end of an era however much we'd prefer to hope its not. Despite the vitriol thrown around I for one feel rather sad to see the once great innovator having his pants pulled down by the like of Maureen and Klopp.

  115. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 17:35 #59178

    Good afternoon Hiccup. To lead into my response let me first ask you a rhetorical question. How do you weigh and judge someone? Surely by their attitudes in what they say and do. These are fundamental-easily misconceived it's true-but a general statement/action can leave you of the opinion that it isn't just a one-off characteristic. I have no beef with the young man at all. I find it odd to want your team to lose in order to attain an unlikely scenario, but hey, whatever floats your boat. I was offering the lad a brief comparison between us two, his AFC achievements and mine. My judgement on that is he has had it full with thick whipped cream on top, by comparison mine was skimmed milk, (much healthier for you, though granted not as nice). He may have a wonderful life, I certainly wish him one. My veiled suggestion was if he is disgruntled with what Arsenal have brought him so far, then he will probably have greater disappointments in life. If he does or doesn't, and whether he handles them well or not, is all academic. It's up to him to sift through comments, politely put, and determine what is, or isn't sensible. Being unhappy with your club can take many shapes, so too your government, or local grocers. How do you deduce that I am happy with the club? If I was happy with the club it wouldn't necessarily mean I have a big smile on my face, nor oblivious to anything. I think you are doing what you accuse me of, deducing, though I think your judgement is a flawed deduction. Just one other point, if what is happening to Glenn is being ripped off, then so too are we all. I think I have a grasp of rip-off England, and it's quite a firm hold. Over to you pal. Oh, and I am a wicked judge of Rubies, and have a number of merits to my name of criticisms and complaints I have tendered, didn't you deduce that?

  116. jeff wright

    Oct 13, 2014, 17:34 #59177

    Hiccup ,it's just the same old' proper supporters get behind the team' malarkey from Wenger supporters ,although in the past when supporters had had enough of certain managers I don't recall that this excuse was ever used to try and help keep the manager in his job. I agree with what someone posted earlier though regarding Stan and co also being a part of the problem regarding a lack of ambition at the club- and that things will not change regarding this just by removing Inspector Clueless and his policies. The question is can someone else do better than him with the resources that are available ? I would suggest that it is possible that they could do so and this fear of Wenger going by some is just really the bed-wetting that one of Wenger's disciples on here accuses others of .

  117. jjetplane

    Oct 13, 2014, 17:33 #59176

    WESTIE wrong again I decided not to follow some economics irriot who is so far away from an Arsenal culture as to be a perversity. I question your Arsenal credentials too as all I hear is 'what the odds on that' drone. You could just as easily do that down the Lane. Maybe you do is there's a couple of bob in it. GBP stick to Rugby mate! SPAcED its called forward thinking and pray tell what has happened since Bob the God was clapped off the pitch. Wasted ****ing years. AMG well said. It goes to show that AKB's are a bitter little bunch Here GLENN with a name like that you must like BACH! Well done mate.

  118. GBP

    Oct 13, 2014, 17:32 #59175

    Whay have we - each to their own. For me, we could have any coach in place and he could be as bad as bad can be but wishing for losses isnt in my reportoire. Call me what you like but i dread to think what some of them on here wd be like had they have lived the Neill, Howe and Wright years. Bunch of lightweight self obsessed not wits.

  119. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 13, 2014, 17:30 #59174

    DanC, or even once in ten years.

  120. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 13, 2014, 17:02 #59173

    GBP- There's no difference at all is there, both scenarios are fans hoping for defeats because they want the manager gone, but you clearly find the hedged but transparent utterances of disingenuous fans more palatable. I'm sure it suits you both to pretend you're on the same side.

  121. Hiccup

    Oct 13, 2014, 16:53 #59172

    Bard, you have thrown the guantlet down numerous times with still no answer. Online Gooner needs a post from a die hard wengerite outlining why this man is the way forward. I'm all for balance, and this place just doesn't have any, because as you say where are all the pro wenger posts? These wenger out posts are all to familiar and I'd love to see an alternative article, but for once with substance, not just based on "we've had worse periods in the last 100 years?" Where is Simon Rose? I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but this place needs him!

  122. GBP

    Oct 13, 2014, 16:38 #59171

    Why have we - there s a big gulf between thinking defeats and matters thus getting worse might be needed to oust the boss but blatantly WISHING for defeats? What sort of fan does that? Arsenal dont need them hence theyre better off up the High Road as such poor attitude is part of spud DNA. Its fine wanting the coach gone. I don't agree but have no concerns with those who do. A fan who wishes for defeat is going to do that whoever runs the circus. Its typical of many modern day post SKY and PL so called fans sadly.If the players thought there were many who thought the same and if i was a player i wouldn't want to play for the Club to be honest.

  123. GBP

    Oct 13, 2014, 16:24 #59170

    Red Member - 'the worst period in the Clubs history'? Are you for real? How do you back that argument up? Perspectives? Yours needs a serious service and M.O.T chap, wherever your views on Wenger are. You're as self obsessed as the muppet that wants us to lose and the other who became 'indifferent' while we were still at Highbury!! Fickle fans everywhere of course, which is par for the course, but you dont merit entry to even the fickle Club. The Clubs ambitions might be dubious, the coach might be crotchety and past his very best, the odd player we have might be less than fit for purpose but worst period in a century? Arsenal dont need you chap.

  124. Hiccup

    Oct 13, 2014, 16:18 #59169

    Baddie, how can you deduct from a disgruntled fans opinion that he is dissatisfied with most things in life? Why do you take the outlook that anyone who isn't happy with the club can't possibly get enjoyment elsewhere in life? To me, Glenn sounds like someon who knows when he's being taken for a mug or being ripped off. Can we generalise anyone like yourself that is happy with the current set up, must go walking around all day with a big smile on his face, oblivious to anything? I bet if Glenn's currie house started making sh!t curries because their best chefs left and were replaced with school kids, and all the while prices were hiked so the owner could have extra holidays he'd complain or stop going. Or should he just continue going because the curries used to be good and it's only fair for school kids to learn their trade at his expense? And when he's asked if his cold currie is okay, just smile back gawmlessly?

  125. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 15:56 #59168

    Ozzie, yes we do reveal a lot about ourselves, and not for the first time you have too. I don't get you fella. You don't agree? Fine, who cares? Address or direct my opinion to those who agree? Bit pointless isn't it, to not debate, or offer a differing viewpoint? Since when do you write the guidelines? And what's with the personal jibe buddy? If I am pompous, you are arrogant. My last question, who else could I have directed this post at, rather than the one who tossed out the first insult, chum? Questioning my personal life is a bit below the belt buddy, perhaps you would be wiser not to go there.

  126. DJ

    Oct 13, 2014, 15:44 #59167

    I couldn’t imagine even wanting Arsenal to lose again in the same way I couldn’t imagine ever giving up my season ticket even if I have tell my daughter she has been a bad girl and Santa is not bringing her any presents this year. (Joke Folks!) The debate about our Manager has been done to death so I’ll just mention that I got a part (albeit a small part misses!) in Badarse’s latest play so I have well and truly made it on this site so there!

  127. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 13, 2014, 15:28 #59166

    GBP- What's the difference between fans 'who admit to thinking defeats might hasten his departure', to who you say 'fair do's', and fans like Glenn who openly declare they want us to lose a few games in the short term for the benefit of the club in the long term, to who you say 'get a life, open your eyes and preferably sod off the WHL'? Glenn is certainly more honest which perhaps makes you feel uncomfortable, but it's good at least that you seem to be on board with his rationale.

  128. Red Member

    Oct 13, 2014, 15:08 #59165

    the biggest problem with the club at the moment is the split in the fanbase. Glenn is clearly a loyal Arsenal supporter and yet he is getting criticised on here from other fellow Arsenal supporters. All very sad. For this reason alone Wenger needs to go.

  129. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Oct 13, 2014, 15:06 #59164

    Great article. Of course a lot if the clown fanboys will come put and bash you. I don't even listen to akbs anymore as their opinions never change and they can see no wrong won't Wenger. Even though every other fan of a top team can see it and would not tolerate he's behaviour. Now folks our saying Wilshere is the saviour Loool, because he had good games against San Marino a pub team that would look out of place in the ryman conference let alone the euro qualifiers where they should not be at all or Estonia another pub team lool. The media in this country is a joke. It really is. They have no sense of reality. When reality does hit they start asking questions Loool. Also if you bring stuff up folks call you negative lool. I'm just a realistic person. I know I have no chance if pulling Kim kadashisn lol it's called reality. Which a lot of folks seem to hate. Let me lay down another reality. Arsenal will never win the pl again UNDER WENGER!!!! That's not me being negative it's reality. Also I'm soooo happy will now not be given the top seeding pot for the champions league if we even qualify this season lool. We all know we our never going to win it under this clown again not negative REALITY!!! I always thought why man city who have won the pl the twice in 3 years have been in pots below us, yes I know they have just come into the cl and have no history in it and have a poor record bla bla. Put us in their group with bayern Munich, Roma etc we will finish last in that group no doubt about it. The clown loves to go how he has managed arsenal for 18 years, so why have you only been to the semis twice in 18 years ???? Mr 18 years manager??? awful record if you ask me and any fan from a club that actually wants to win it and can win it. Finally rio Ferdinand revealed something very interesting well we all knew it. At arsenal they wanted to win but at manure under fervid YOU HAD TO WIN!!! Everyone knows that mentally does not exist at arsenal. Fans now ding they want the clown to stay oh dear, dear. What has happened to this club. The key is to not get top 4. I really believe we will not get it this season.

  130. Anti-Wenger

    Oct 13, 2014, 15:05 #59163

    In as much as i believe that Wenger is long past his prime and no longer has what it takes to win a major trophy like the EPL or UCL(irrespective of the players at his disposal), i still believe that he's not the major problem. The people who run the club are. even if they sack Wenger and bring in another coach, with the same limited ambition of 'top 4 trophy', then the problem will remain. If the owners/board have a genuine hunger to actually win the top competitions, then Wenger would have had a DM forced on him during the summer(whether he liked it or not), as its obvious for all to see we have a major problem in that position. I guess an ambitious board would have parted ways with him long ago anyway. United will keeping chopping and changing till they get back to the top and i won't bet against them to recover the EPL title over the next 3 years. Chelsea or City will not settle for less either, their coaches know they have to deliver the major titles(not FAC or Capital one) or they're out. But it's different here, so even any new coach will not be get the support and pressure needed from above to win titles.

  131. PGriffinAFC

    Oct 13, 2014, 15:01 #59162

    BADARSE, that's a settling for what we have type mentality. You are trying to portray this lengthy period without a league as some sort of moment in history but football has moved on. There's a reason why David Dein said the board were stuck in the stone age and one of the reasons is they very much see it like that. United went 26 years without a league until Ferguson got one. That isn't the same mentality at United now. Likewise Barca, they had spells in their history where sides like Bilbao were successful at their expense and had lean periods in the process. That's not acceptable in the current climate to them. Mancini wins 3 leagues in a row coming off a league drought at Inter and they didn't sit on their laurels. Mourinho came in and they went on to better things with a Champions League. Mancini was still removed due to failure in Europe. Rijkaard had two leagues and a Champions League. Two barren years and he was gone. Pep arrived and the rest is history. Point being, modern day football at these elite clubs have accountability even if a lean spell is short term. Certain standards have to be consistently maintained nowadays. This is sadly lacking with us. Instead we move to a new stadium on the back of some great sides in the previous few years under Wenger and stopped at being happy at that.

  132. Gunner6288

    Oct 13, 2014, 14:29 #59161

    Yeah your right. Giroud is completely rubbish. its not like he scored 16 in 36. I'm not an AKB (i think it'd be very interesting to see someone else at the helm) but lets not go on like it couldn't be worse. Just ask a Leeds fan.

  133. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 14:20 #59160

    Red Member, the 18 years is a period of time-not a record. If you want to be pedantic, we formed in 1886 and won our first trophy in 1930. I make that 44 years, but westlower will verify that. We joined the league in 1892 so perhaps only 38 years elapsed? Either way, playing with figures is a mug's game, you can often prove or disprove anything. Mathematics are only good enough for solving the mysteries of the universe. Just think if this was as good as it got, where would it leave you? It would leave me with some of the most fantastic memories and experiences any footie fan would be proud to hold.

  134. Red Member

    Oct 13, 2014, 14:14 #59158

    westlower - I am sat here open mouthed at your suggestion that this is one of the best periods in the clubs history!! you have to be a WUM to come up with something as deluded as that. we havent even challenged for the title for the last decade! Indeed the club openly admits that 4th place is the height of its aambition!

  135. David

    Oct 13, 2014, 14:12 #59157

    So between the age of 6 and 24 you saw arsenal win 5 league titles, 5 FA cups, 1 league cup, the cup winners cup, and finish runners up in the UEFA cup and CL? Come on BADARSE, you gotta cut the guy some slack. If your formative years had been so spoilt by such success (rather than by Billy Wright's misadventure), you would have the same views.

  136. GBP

    Oct 13, 2014, 14:05 #59156

    Matt - great sentiment. Me too matey, id love to see the likes of those Clubs up there along with a few others as it should be. It would be like football getting its soul back so it wont happen!

  137. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:54 #59155

    Formality? some would say it was, and expected and indeed accepted (by some anyway)that's how far expectations have plummeted over the years thanks to an old bungling has been of a manager. From expecting a win to hoping for one, to regarding a draw as a good result and celebrating it (by some anyway) to praying we're not humiliated (again) and when were not, even though we're still stuffed classing it as progress (again by some fans anyway) Sad, some fans have more ambition for their club than that, and not afraid to sat it, but some fans are quite happy to accept mediocrity in support of their messiah, and that's exactly what we're going to get as long as this old man is supported and allowed to bungle around the place especially the dressing room.

  138. Bard

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:50 #59154

    Spaced; I afraid you're mistaken mate. This site is representative of the general online feeling. I read most of the other sites and they all say the same. Le Grove is more so Arseblog less so although he is turning. So no the feelings on this site are not isolated and unrepresentative, although I do understand the need to present it as that.

  139. Westlower

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:46 #59153

    FFP stands for Financial Fair Play. It also stands for Fickle Fockers Pretending to be Gooners. I'd like to buy some of you at my price and sell at yours and I'd make one hell of a profit. Whether you like it or not AFC remains in the best period of the clubs history. @JJ, At least you're honest in admitting you stopped being a supporter in 2005 but you still love you knock those of us who are more committed to the cause.

  140. AMG

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:24 #59152

    Some predictable responses along the lines of 'you're young, so your opinion doesn't count'. Glenn started supporting as early as he could, it's hardly his fault he's fortunate enough to be born in the 80's. His opinion is every bit as valid as that of any old fart, many of who share his views. To those who use age as a reason to question Glenn's view, I say grow up! Without young fans, the next generation of old farts will never materialise, calling them JCL's and ingrates is hardly a mature thing to do.

  141. jeff wright

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:20 #59151

    The current Stan Kroenke regime at AFC , with son Josh , Ivan and a posse of American biz execs running the show is financially motivated . This is either your cup of coffee or it's not. If you claim that you are enjoying it though then you are either a masochist or a liar ! Wenger is rather like Chips 'Raffles' the latest token old boy Etonian chairman of the board or bored ( yawn) there to do a job for Stan and getting well paid for doing so. In Wenger's case that job is to secure the cash cow Champions League TV money every season ,anything else is a bonus.It looks like the Ozil situation will be resolved either in January or at the end of the season with a large part of the 42m spent on thr Panda Eyed pansy recouped and millions more saved on the wages that are being wasted on the want away flop .He served a purpose to help placate disgruntled supporters at one time but hey you can only fool all of the people some of the time and all that ... Never mind though Arsene has still got Diaby on the wage bill and has even signed Oliver and er,Arteta , up for a further two years . You couldn't make it up.

  142. Spaced

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:20 #59150

    Jetplane, you became indifferent the season after we won the league without a single defeat. That is quite enlightening...

  143. Bard

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:20 #59149

    blair207; I wish he was on borrowed time but I don't think so. If we don't make top 4 there is an easy PR strategy available, We have qualified for x years in a row and its only one slip up and we have had chronic injury problems. Thats a good enough spin to keep him on for another season and another price hike for dear old Stan.

  144. GBP

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:11 #59148

    No genuine supporter wants his team to lose ... ever! You might be a 'fan' but you're certainly no supporter, whatever your opinion on Wenger might be, dad, good or indifferent. There are lots on the site who think Wenger should walk and a few who admit to thinking defeats might hasten his departure. Fair do s to them, but to you, get a life, open your eyes and preferably sod off the WHL. PS . If you seriously believe MA is a latter day Denny, you know little about football anyway. Pathetic, self obsessed post

  145. Spaced

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:10 #59147

    Thanks for the article Glenn, it kind of explains to us the thinking of many of the Arsenal fans who post on this website. A very spoiled brat type of mentality. When you support a football club, you get ups and downs, good times and bad times. Currently, considering the history of the club, we are probably still in the good times following a pretty amazing time.... What will you do when we go through a bad period?

  146. jjetplane

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:09 #59146

    Nicely put GLENN and makes a lot more points simply than some of the claptrap on here - you know who you are! Cannot quite remember when I became indifferent to an Arsenal result but it must be around 2005. Whatever some bright eyed scientologists on here say and they probably don't go to the Emirates that much if at all, let us hope you get that change because you are a proper supporter and when all these old, tired sorts have gone I hope you go back. Up the real Arsenal!

  147. Ozzie

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:03 #59145

    You may as well re direct your pompous crap to all the other fans that share a similar view to Glenn's (who are many), Baddie. Do you really think they care about your opinion? You also reveal much about yourself. Do you get any attention at home, chum?

  148. blair207

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:01 #59144

    My belief is that Wenger could be on borrowed time by January. Next year is the start of the new BTsport mega money Tv deal for the Champions League. Given the current form I think this could be be the season the bubble bursts. The owners of the club cannot afford to sleepwalk into CL non qualification. The financial implications are very scary, this is why ManU are backing LVG to the hilt. Wenger is going to have to get 4th place or its curtains.

  149. Red Member

    Oct 13, 2014, 13:01 #59143

    a sad but accurate assessment - I am surprised there are posters who disagree with him. still a few to face up to reality I see. Badarse since we are talking about perspectives how about this. The Arsenal have never gone more than 18 years without winnning the league. We are about to head into the 11th year with a club further and further away not only from winning the league but from challenging for it. Does the ambition at the club fill you with any confidence that the 18 year record will be saved? We might just be currently in the worst period of the club during the past century. Not enough of us realise that though yet.

  150. Gee

    Oct 13, 2014, 12:59 #59142

    I agree that Wenger doesn't have it to take us to the PL or CL titles. His day at the top table has now gone. However I want us to win every game. I can never imagine sitting there wanting the team to lose. This is most disappointing to hear another supporter say this Have a word with yourself mate

  151. Why have we only got 6 defenders?

    Oct 13, 2014, 12:55 #59141

    One step back to take two steps forward. A fine, sensible post that only Wenger's most clingy and devoted disciples could fail to understand. If only more fans were like you rather than some of the lemmings, liars and amateur psychoanalysts that post on here we would have had a new manager, a new dawn and new hope long ago, but instead we have 2 years and 9 months more of the same predictable, depressing rubbish thanks to the mindset of meek acceptance displayed on this very thread. There have been numerous occasions that I have wanted us to lose in order to get rid of Wenger and improve the long term prospects for my team and club, but then again I believe the club is bigger than the manager. Others disagree.

  152. Bruce W

    Oct 13, 2014, 12:47 #59140

    I don't agree with the notion of wanting us to loose. However, I think the predicatability of the situation we're is there for us all to interpret howe we see fit. As fans we should just ask ourselves a coupe of questions - could another manager get more out the players he has to work with? Would another manager have been more responsible in their player recruitment over the summer? Answer these honestly and you'll know where you stand when it comes to the current situation!

  153. Westlower

    Oct 13, 2014, 12:24 #59139

    Glenn, Best you stick to fantasy football as the real world is not for you. If you didn't give up your season ticket for financial reasons or you moved abroad, then effectively you have given up supporting your club. Wallowing in your own self pity is embarrassing for you, time to grow up methinks.

  154. Big Andy

    Oct 13, 2014, 12:03 #59138

    Your position is sad but understandable, Glen. I know many Gooners who feel exactly the same way. This is what Arsene Wenger has done to our club. Me personally, I can never feel the same way: as much as I loathe the current Wenger management I'll never hope for us to be defeated - especially by Chelsea. But I know that we'll never win the PL again under OGL. We'll all just have to just wait until he's gone.

  155. Unchives

    Oct 13, 2014, 11:50 #59137

    To be honest Glenn, Im embarrassed for you, having started supporting Arsenal since 1988, means you enjoyed unbelievable success under both George Graham & Arsene Wenger. We are STILL the best footballing side in the League, have one of the best stadiums in world football & not too far off competing, our frustration is that "Not too far off" is a few players & decisions away. We don't believe Wenger can make them, however we cannot be reckless and just bring anyone in. In two seasons, either Pep Guardiola or Klopp will be available, however this season is not over, we have actually had a good start taking the early fixtures into account.If anyone should have patience, it is you!

  156. Doctore

    Oct 13, 2014, 11:31 #59136

    And to think he had all summer to replace Vermelean and to think we started the season with 6 senior defenders and one of the 6 being a 19year old who was yet to get a full season of senior football under his belt is beyond defense,seeing our possible defensive line up against the hull city tiger which might include Bellerin and Hayden(both inexperienced) or Monreal as a centre back,and remembering Arsene on the sandy beaches of Rio in those stupid speedos?I don't get how anyone defends that,its nothing but gross negligence of the highest order and to think some fans feel he's doing us a favour managing us while pocketing 8million pounds/year is beyond understanding

  157. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 11:29 #59135

    Sorry Bard, your post is not really valid regarding the overview. It's fine if a lad holds the view that Glenn does, though it is a very narrow, almost embarrassing outlook. Our statements say much about ourselves, so I believe this lad may well be dissatisfied with most things in his life. His life, his burden to tote. Your pragmatist statement of, 'If there was any real belief in the current regime there would be loads of Wenger stuff.', misses the fact that there is-this response is an example. You mean someone writing an article exactly like this one, but with a diametric view. That would be akin to hunkering down in our trenches, and hurling custard pies at each other across no-man's land. We have moved beyond that. A trial of fire and water it may have been, but we have a slightly nuanced, different approach on here now. You don't really want us harping back to those dawn of the dead days do you? You recently asked me imponderable questions, and I tried my best to answer, admitting we cannot know all, and our different natures will read things differently. What is there to say and report of AW? No, I don't think the banging of dustbin lids really helps. But I know what to get you for Xmas-two shiny silver ones.

  158. doctore

    Oct 13, 2014, 11:18 #59134

    I completely agree with your sentiments I mirror them too,its embarrassing seeing the lengths some Arsenal fans go to defend Monsieur Wenger,even though he earns about 8million pounds a year and does a very poor job of being a coach compared to being a financial manager,was truly sad watching Chelsea dismantle our team even though they played in the second gear all through that game,and to think we have a higher wage bill beggars understanding.

  159. Basil Brush

    Oct 13, 2014, 11:11 #59133

    We do have Chelski's resources if we want, just Stan won't allow Usmanov a place on the board. Our fans should be boycotting games and making it clear we want Kroenke out, too many just sit back and say oh well we can't compete 4th is good enough, low and behold what do we get..

  160. Ozzie

    Oct 13, 2014, 11:05 #59132

    Well, goodonya Glenn, for speaking your mind, you have my sympathy and respect. No parenting, criticism nor mumbo jumbo coming from this end. Have a good day :)

  161. AMG

    Oct 13, 2014, 11:01 #59131

    Thanks for your honest Glenn, I think many of us have been in the same situation as you, hoping for a run of embarrassing defeats to see Wenger off. Unfortunately that ship sailed when he signed his new deal, no combination of results will see Wenger leave until his contract is out. The board don't have the nards to sack him and his hubris is such that he won't leave. So wishing for us to lose is now a painful exercise is futility. The only way he will go before his contract is out is by fans getting nasty, poisonous atmospheres and protests, can't see it happening though can you?

  162. PGriffinAFC

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:58 #59130

    While I agree with the frustration, I don't agree whatsoever with wanting us to lose to get the desired change you want. I don't buy this "we don't have the resources" to compete mantra that is constantly thrown around. Dortmund, Atletico and Montpellier with far inferior wage bills have gone up against superpower clubs financially and come out on top. Montpellier beat PSG, Marseille, Lyon, Lille with Giroud as their highest earner on £15,000 pw. Wenger said himself it was a miracle so he knows it can be done. Dortmund had a wage bill that was half Munich's in 2012 and as Honigstein said last season, QPR have a bigger one than them. Atletico had a smaller one than QPR and Fulham last year. Our wage bills dwarf these clubs. Instead of seeing Chelsea and City as a challenge like those other clubs did, we have a defeatist attitude among many fans that we can't compete whatsoever. Not getting a centre back or a defensive midfielder has nothing got to do with Chelsea or City. It's entirely of our failing. That being said, even if we had these acquisitions, team set up comes into it and Wenger has come up short on multiple occasions in big games. We're a unique club in football, a manager can continue to do as he pleases with no accountability on the back of his consistent repetitive mistakes. The whole thing is frustrating because I feel we have everything to push on to challenge all clubs domestically and in Europe. Sadly I don't see that with Wenger/Kroenke who I feel are made for each other and happy for the cosy status quo to continue on.

  163. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:49 #59129

    Here is a little perspective-I hope it translates easily enough to grasp. You are 32; I was that age in 1980. I was 20 before we reached a League Cup Final and lost, a year on at 21 we repeated the feat. At 22 and 23 we won the Euro Fairs Cup and the Double. 24 and beaten finalists, runners up at 25. 30 and beaten finalists again, 31 that memorable Cup win-1979. My 32nd year saw us lose to WHU and the ECWC Final. So that effectively boils down to 1 League win, and 2 FA wins. Only came runners up once in that time. I don't remember screaming and throwing a tantrum at 32 demanding more. You however had celebrated 2 league wins by the age of 9! and 5 trophies by age 12, a Double at 16, another Double before 21, a Cup win at 21, Invincible at 22, another cup win by 23. Since then, perpetual top three or four finishes, 3 losing cup finals and a current cup holder status. How odd that the world spins at the same speed, but people's understanding of the ground beneath their feet keeps shifting.

  164. busani

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:47 #59128

    I agree, totally.

  165. Ozzie

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:42 #59127

    Hello, hello, there's that expectations word again. I'm beginning to wonder if that is what is the cause of so much angst among the fans? Perhaps it's time to say "sod it, I either eat what is in front of me or I go & find something more tasty." I'm watching more exciting football here in Oz at the moment, no overpaid prima donnas playing fancy crap, just honest, uncomplicated footy AND....the results are UNPREDICTABLE which makes for intrigue.

  166. matt

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:42 #59126

    Arsene Wenger was never a top coach!!!!!!! And yes I understand he has not won the league for a while due to the financial distortion in our unfair league. I am an arsenal fan but would love to see stoke, West ham etc have a chance of winning the league. The previous comment is accurate. Your self entitlement is embarrassing.

  167. Mathew

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:39 #59125

    Glenn, you are an average Arsenal fan who want us to win all the games. It is painful to support a club like Arsenal, but you have to consider the money laundering done by other clubs. Wenger's trophyless campaign continues but his economics was the key for us to sustain a CL spot year after year. I think we are at the end of the curve and glory days are ahead. Changes are evitable, dead rubber must go and new players will bring new challenges. Atleast we have a tradition and a HISTORY to be proud of, so cheer up fella, we will come back....albeit all these thrashings be proud of being a Gunner.

  168. Bard

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:37 #59124

    Glenn i dont disagree with where you are coming from, the trouble is your arguments have been rehashed a million times on here. There is very little more to say. Whats really interesting is that no-one is writing positive pro wenger posts. Im sure if they were Kev would post them. If there really was any real belief in the current regime,there would be loads of pro Wenger stuff. Despite the die hard Wengerists on here, none has been able to write a coherent pitch for the current regime so yes we are just waiting for the next phase, hopefully sooner rather than later.

  169. John Gee

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:14 #59123

    What a load of rubbish.Are you Stewart Robson in disguise ? Take yourself off to WHL, then you would really have something to moan about.Do you really think that ManU are better than Arsenal ? Yes, Chelsea and Man City are probably better than Arsenal, but we all have to accept that we do not have their resources.Of course I would like to finish top of the League and was disappointed it did not happen last season, but seven points is not a million miles.

  170. DanC

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:13 #59122

    Your self entitlement is an embarrassment. Ideally we'd like to win the league every season thats obvious. I think you need a severe dose of reality in your life

  171. BADARSE

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:09 #59121

    Well, what to say? Sorry for your outlook young man, as it is flawed and symptomatic with the 'I want it all, and I want it now!', mind set. A naeve approach, but one you are perfectly entitled to. I am just grateful our club isn't in your hands, or people like yourself. It is a characteristic quality to want better, and to strive towards it, the manner of reaching that target is only ever the sticking point between fans. I wish you well in your mental, and personal quest. We play Hull at the weekend, so you hope we get beaten? Mmm, oh well, each to his own. I genuinely hope someone turns the light on where you reside-it is definitely on the Dark Side.

  172. DiKaKo

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:09 #59120

    Completely agree with you. With Wenger at the top we can't expect anything different. He is not a top manager and he never was. He has losing mentality and he had transferred it to the whole team. I understand that it could be worse without him, but I don't want to maintain the status quo.

  173. Steve Biko

    Oct 13, 2014, 10:09 #59119

    This article is sadly spot on. Likewise, I knew we would lose at Chelsea. Wenger is past it. He lacks ambition