It’s Complicated…

Online Ed: Thoughts from the Arsenal AGM



It’s Complicated…


The Arsenal Stadium club level, Thursday 16th October 2014. A discernable lack of bowel control, an inability to string much together by way of a coherent sentence, and a big Arsenal name in attendance. But enough about the serious business of the Junior Gunners Play Day, let’s focus our attention on events on the east side of the stadium’s middle tier, namely the Arsenal Holdings Annual General Meeting.

Chairman Sir Chips Keswick, continuing as he did last year to use dismissive humour rather than answer particular questions directly, in the style of his predecessor Peter Hill-Wood, for some reason described his marriage of 49 years as ‘fractious’. It actually made for a decent analogy of many small shareholders’ relationship with the club’s board. Few want dividend payments, but there was unease about the payment of £3 million – perceived to be a dividend in all but name – for ‘strategic and advisory services’, proposed, the assembled were informed, by Sir Chips and Lord Harris, to Stan Kroenke’s Kroenke Sports Enterprises. The services were not put out to tender, but used because they were on hand. Quite how the club survived over 125 years without this expensive advice is a moot point, and what exactly it consisted of was not spelt out. They wouldn’t need to pay me a fiver for the insight that starting the season with six defenders in your 28 man first team squad suggests a hint of imbalance, but £3 million obviously can’t buy that kind of nugget from the strategic services offered by KSE.

The questions were probing, the answers fudgy and uninformative. A standby of Ivan Gazidis was to explain that everything was ‘complicated’, in spite of him talking for enough time to break it down for us. If you read back through the timeline of the Twitter account of Phil Wall you will get a fairly decent summary of proceedings. If you want an insight into the board’s strategy, Phil put together this excellent diagram. It is also refreshing to see the relatively club loyal Arseblogger lay into the club’s relationship with its fans in his thoughts on yesterday’s meeting.

However, when all is said and done, this is an exercise the board have to go through because it is a legal obligation, not because they genuinely want to inform the club’s part owners of anything they do not wish to reveal. It is interesting that the dwindling number of shareholders that remain only get this one benefit a year these days. I asked why a previous perk – an end of season Q&A event with the manager – had been dropped and whether there was any possibility of its return. “I don’t have an answer to that question, when I do I’ll get back to you,” said Sir Chips, and didn’t bother to ask Arsene Wenger, sitting less than ten feet away.

After the meeting concluded, and the queue of fans to have a photo taken with the manager had thinned out, I asked him myself. He won’t be doing it again, “because people are disrespectful towards the players,” a reaction to the comment describing Silvestre as “geriatric” back in 2009 after Arsenal had been hammered at home by Manchester United and Chelsea in the lead up to the event. I said that was a comment by one person, so why should everyone suffer, at which point the head of press Mark Gonella, Arsene’s PR minder for the day leapt in to inform me, “The world has changed. Arsene gets asked these questions every day by the press.” Well not strictly, as they are rarely as challenging in seeking explanation as the supporters. But anyway, fair play to the shareholders who have chosen not to cash in on their shares and force the board to go through the annual raising of discontent and questioning of their decisions.

Other random notes. Stan Kroenke’s wig looks a shade darker this year. Josh Kroenke was appointed because of his expertise in running three of dad’s clubs in the States, which would be hugely beneficial to Arsenal. Josh played soccer when he was younger so is an expert on the game. Stan Kroenke spoke to the attendees to introduce Arsene Wenger – a way of guaranteeing applause at the end of a speel we have heard before that basically boils down to – ‘I could have bought other clubs but wasn’t interested, but I love London and I love Arsene Wenger’.

What was interesting during Wenger’s speech, which also said very little to these ears, unlike in past times, was the expression on Ivan Gazidis’ face. It suggested someone who belied his public supportive words for the manager. A subjective interpretation, granted, but if footage is out there somewhere, judge for yourself. It isn’t on the official website yet, and after reading this, they will probably go with a close up rather than leave Gazidis in shot if they haven’t edited it already. Regarding the last transfer window, Wenger told us, “I agree we could have bought one more player, we didn’t find him. We will try in December to rectify that because we are a bit short with the injuries we have. We will rectify that in the transfer market in January.” Couldn’t find a defender… are they an endangered species or something?

“We have developed and bought English players because we want to develop a major core of our team, if possible more local.” The penny has finally dropped. The imported continental youngsters will p*** off at the first chance of better money and winners’ medals elsewhere. It took almost ten years to realise this folks. Football visionary, anyone? Young nomads won’t develop loyalty for the club and move on without any hesitation.

“We have already lost some ground against the top teams but we think we can come back. I am here to tell you that I believe we can do well and that I’m willing to fight harder than ever to come out of this season, and hopefully face you next season, being right.” So do I Arsene, but the feeling I get from these words is akin to the captain of the Titanic saying – “Don’t worry about that iceberg. I look forward to seeing you all on the next cruise.”

Some good news – Kroenke cannot put the club into Glazer-style Man Utd debt because the stadium loan deal precludes Arsenal taking on any more debt. So he’ll have to wait another 15 years or so to pull that stroke. And anyway, he can’t do that without Alisher Usmanov’s ok. And without Usmanov, these AGM’s would be a thing of the past. Kroenke would have more than 90% and would take the club private.

Ivan Gazidis slammed the “Inaccurate and superficial analysis of afc cash reserves”, which I would be interested to hear the response of the excellent Swiss Ramble to. The AST worked out there was £65 million unused from the transfer and wages kitty on September 1st, but were talked down to £40 million by the club. Enough for at least a couple of names that would enhance the defensive options, although for all the world, it does look like a little and large partnership at centre back tomorrow with Nacho Monreal drafted in for Koscielny.

Ivan put up a wages, ticket and general inflation chart from 2006-07 to 2013-14 to demonstrate two things - Ticket prices rises are lower than inflation over the period (the latter an average 3.4% per year). This quietly ignores the astronomical percentage rises in the final ten years at Highbury. That graph would tell a very different story, one which demonstrates the starting price points at the new stadium in 2006 were a rip-off. The other thing it showed us was players’ wages are spiraling out of control, directly linked to increased TV revenue. Inconveniently, it also demonstrated that fleecing the fans with ticket price increases is an exercise that has no discernable justification. The TV and commercial income rises amply cover what the club need.

There is no chance of Arsenal or its sub contractors paying the London Living Wage until they are legally obliged to by the government.

The running of the fanshare scheme was backed by the club, to the tune of £250,000 over a four year period. The club could continue to support it by simply issuing new shares which would have no discernable effect on Stan Kroenke’s control, but the money to pay for them would go to Arsenal, not Kroenke, meaning he would have to buy the shares back in the event of Usmanov ever selling up. What’s the problem? Just charge another ‘strategic advisory fee’ to the club to cover it, come the day! There will be less attendees at the 2015 AGM as fanshare owns over 100 shares, which one imagines may all go to one buyer, and more likely than not, Kroenke, unless Usmanov wants to make a point and can come to some kind of deal with the Fanshare board. He could certainly afford to fund the running of the scheme as a PR gesture, although that still does not get around the reality that it is virtually impossible to buy the shares required to maintain the scheme.

Ah well, onto football matters. Arsene told us we will see Arsenal line up in a 4-4-2 this season at some stage once Giroud returns to fitness.

And to finish, this corker from Sir Chips. “If Arsene does not have a plan we keep quiet. If Arsene has a plan we back it.” Hmmmm….

All back for more this time next year.

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.

The new issue of The Gooner will be on sale outside the stadium at tomorrow’s home match against Hull. It can be bought online here.

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65
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  1. Rob

    Oct 19, 2014, 12:18 #59676

    Just to add, took your advice to read Phil's Twitter Feed. Hilarious ! Particularly the deadpan comment about Chips convincing Stan of Josh's abilities !!!

  2. GBP

    Oct 18, 2014, 19:03 #59611

    Hiccup - Roger that mate. Thank MG for his consent bud. Everything else aside, i d love to see the bottom fall out of the tv fueled cash ridden game and watch the Clubs coming grovelling back to those of us fans whove always been there, just so we cd tell them BS. Thats my bottom line on all of the stuff we argue and ponder. What of you Hiccup?

  3. Rocky RIP

    Oct 18, 2014, 17:38 #59599

    Rob, Kroenke's hairpiece impersonating hair? JCL Arsenal fans impersonating 'Gooners'? Dick van Dyke impersonating a cockney? Okay, you win.

  4. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 18, 2014, 17:07 #59596

    Rob, is there anything worse.

  5. Rob

    Oct 18, 2014, 16:26 #59593

    What's worse ? Keswick impersonating Hill-Wood ? Gazedis impersonating David Brent ? Wenger impersonating a successful Manager ?

  6. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Oct 18, 2014, 14:44 #59589

    Developing English players sounds nice and all, but our they good enough??? I don't care where your passport is from, you could be from Timbuktu for all I know if you are good enough for arsenal that is all that counts not what passport you have. English players in general our not good enough that is a fact. They our over pampered from a young age and earn stupid money early. So they have no incentive to get better. Then folks start asking questions about why England get beat easily at the euros and World Cup well it's called reality check. England could not win anything with Lampard and Gerald who for me in their primes where world class. Also both of those guys are still better than Wilshere that is a fact and I would take them both now over Wilshere who has not improved for me since 2010. Two good games against pub teams will not change my mind. What really annoys me about where the club is, is that we have a higher wage bill than chelsea yes Chelsea lool. We are paying average players who none would start for either man city nor Chelsea. Too much players smh it's an absolute joke that can not be defended. My standard of judging teams is based on Chelsea and man city as one if those teams will probably win the pl for the next couple years and have the best squads. Let me ask you this, how many of our players would start for either man city or chelsea if everyone is fit??? The answer is zero. My dream scenario is for Usmanov to somehow force out kronke and than sack Wenger that would be absolute gold for me

  7. jjetplane

    Oct 18, 2014, 14:11 #59587

    Just an innocent thought. I know I am a bit wrapped up in 9th tier jumpers for goalposts football but am puzzled why the The British School of Motoring (BSM) is taking such a great interest in Arsenal. Aah for the days of taking the old Spitfire for a run in the country and a picnic for two while listening to Radio 2 when it did what was on the label. Got me on it now. Baked beans in brown sauce! I ask you. I come from a country where a baked bean is what it says squire - a baked bean. Now yer got the bleedin' French and them Yanks what know nothing about jumpers for goalposts coming over here and brainwashing the Trolls (Jamie ...) and exchanging all our british pennies for bloody Francs and Dollars. Why do we bother I ask sometimes. Back to the school of motoring. Don't actually drive a car (still got me corgi batmobile and my trusty batman) so am humbly wondering whether I would be excluded from your er revolution because of this startling impairment? ... Don't get me wrong. Change can be good but thankfully you can still buy fish paste in most convenience. Where would a picnic be without a jar or two. Gawd bless yer Mr Arsenal - wherever you may be .....

  8. jjetplane

    Oct 18, 2014, 13:47 #59586

    JW never really had him down as a 'tart from Montmatre' but true colours and all that and I too was thinking Edith Wenger only not the little sparrow - more the big w...... cheers HicCup find the low level addictive and sometimes I am sitting/standing and a gull wanders past as the opposition score another and I think champions league - who are you kidding. Going to watch Selsey play away today to in form Eastb Town and Selsey having just come off a 9-1 (8-2, 6-0, ...) beating from Loxwood. Football is a broad and cruel church but even the brow beaten cannot help the odd million dollar smirk. Edith - how could you!

  9. BADARSE

    Oct 18, 2014, 12:25 #59582

    Firstly, when we do something, follow a creed, campaign, demonstrate, espouse a minority point of view, you do it because you believe it to be the correct thing to do. You do it for yourself, because you want to do that correct thing. If you achieve nothing tangible, you achieve great things within your own tiny part of the universe-which is usually located somewhere between one ear and the other, at least mine is. So to sum up, I think Rocky RIP is following a chosen path, and an admirable one. Whether a realist-cynic to some-like myself thinks it may prove fruitless is academic, if we are adhering to the criteria just outlined. Of course it isn't fruitless at all, small things have changed for the better as Rocky RIP has explained. The exchanging posts between himself, Hiccup and GBP are very sensible, and probably for some, quite illuminating. I truly have enjoyed reading them. For my part I clearly stand with them. Whilst applauding Rocky RIP, I agree with the slightly jaundiced views of the other two interlocutors. The world we knew is over, a new world is here, but an even newer one is on the horizon, that is accelerative change in the making. When I was a boy parents told their kids to do this or that and it would serve them in life jobwise/moneywise. It was low key. Now we have frantic parents jumping through many unethical hoops, just to give their kids an inside curve in the race for life. All very ugly. Yet it is here and denying it is really fruitless, as well as blinkered, as with the circumstances surrounding our football club. Recognise it, accept it is an ugly development, think of a strategy and either follow through or, if like myself regard it as a too mammoth and diverse problem, inter-linked with a whole raft of other considerations, metaphorically boot it into touch. You either walk away, or stay and get what you can from the time allotted to you. Enjoyment, and that doesn't mean an idiot's grin is plastered across your face, but something far less superficial, something often very deep.

  10. Hiccup

    Oct 18, 2014, 11:28 #59579

    GBP. I've just checked with maguiresbridge and it's ok to agree with you. Your point of where the battle is lost I too have accepted. Fans are now turning to non league football. The news the other day which highlighted ticket prices also showed how man utd fans are also being out priced. They used to brag how they were the cheapest and still won trophies. Their fans are turning to watch altrincham to get their footy fix. Dads taking their kids as a family can't afford PL prices.

  11. GBP

    Oct 18, 2014, 10:54 #59576

    Hi Rocky - club incentives are ok mate and not to be knocked but football for such as me was handed down by Dads, Grandads and Uncles. It was in the blood and kicking a football in the streets was all we had, day and night. You look and hear them at Arsenal now and by and large, theyve adopted football as the thing to be seen doing or the place to be seen to be at. Can you see this lot passing on the mantle? its just a phase in their lives with little depth. I cant.This social fan demography is far more pronounced in London than the North and Central regions in my observations of it. Accepted it exists at Man U as well but theyre an international club who just happen to be in Manchester. They could move to London and nothing much would change as i see them. Bloody awful Club. Footballs no longer 'cultural' is it. It has no roots, esp in the South now bar the next swift pound or is it bucks now? I dont know a lot of BSM or AISAs inner workings but feel that any fan voice is good but alas, theyre all playing King Canute trying to stem the waves from engulfing the soul of football. In fact, i personally feel the battle is lost. Keep at it though mate. Im guessing your a chunk younger than me and havent yet reached the point of acceptance that i have of football being as its turned out to be. I think such as Arsenal and the others like Utd et al arent far from breaking out of domestic football altogether. These lastest proposals will happen ie games abroad. Its the starter to moisten the taste buds for the main meal. The big euro Clubs will gobble it up eventually. Look at how they already send the teams globally far and wide pre season and to hell with what the coaches and players think. I think the Clubs are pressing UEFA on it and not the other way around. Imm glad i can look back on the late 60s 70s and 80s as being the years when the fans lived and breathed it. Theyre were problems yes, but the game 'lived' and had an energy that fed from the terraces to the players and vica versa. Its not coming back, even in a more civilised and saner guise. I like yr posts. Always very thoughtful and creative.

  12. Rocky RIP

    Oct 18, 2014, 10:32 #59575

    @ GBP - exactly right. And this is a key area for the BSM, also campaigning with other fans groups at other clubs. (Apologies, I'm no spokesman for them, despite how I sound.) The BSM are extremely concerned that future generations of match-going Arsenal fans aren't coming through in the same numbers and with the same connections, affinity and loyalty as in the past. The old North Bank was chock full of teenagers, who now have Arsenal etched in their hearts. The average age at Arsenal now is what, mid 40s and rising? There is a worrying lack of teenagers who attend habitually who will be the loyal fans of tomorrow. I know there's been the £10 ticket JG section which deserves praise, but it doesn't seem as popular as it should be for some reason, but I hope I'm wrong.

  13. Rocky RIP

    Oct 18, 2014, 10:17 #59573

    @ Hiccup - true, and the depressing reality. However, I'm not going to stop backing my beliefs. Some of it does get through where there's overwhelming support and backing. Ditching the Elvis track as our anthem and the shouting back of the players names for example was the result of pressure from fans groups, including the BSM. When it's in their interests, they can listen and act. They just need to realise that certain stuff is in the long-term interests of the club. (Like you say though, do they care when making a profit is their only key concern?)

  14. GBP

    Oct 18, 2014, 10:14 #59572

    Hiccup - chaps. I reckon footballs biggest issue is where the next 12 to 20 years old fans will come from?I know such as i were stupid prats the way we behaved at times at that age but we were the ones filling the grounds back then. You look now and most of the crowds are 35 to 60. Kids are frozen out hence the atmospheres being what they are or should i say not!

  15. KC

    Oct 18, 2014, 10:12 #59571

    I was unable to get to the spuds game and therefore used ticket exchange, the ticket sold within 10 mins, this gives our board licence to behave as it does. This board only see dollar signs that's their only concern, people slag Roman at cfc but at least he wants what the supporters want trophies, its strange but there's a lot more contentment amongst their fans than ours, our owners have to go they don't love Arsenal they love the money the name brings in.

  16. Hiccup

    Oct 18, 2014, 10:00 #59570

    I'm sure the BSM proposals are all fine and for the benefit of the fan, but I've got many proposals for my council that I think will benefit me and society in general. It's just how do you get the club or the council to listen? A growing band may force the councils hand knowing the elections are looming but how you get the club to listen is the problem. If the whole thing does ever implode, those that have creamed it off will have made their bucks and be long gone.

  17. Rocky RIP

    Oct 18, 2014, 9:22 #59569

    @ Hiccup - I know your points very well and can't really argue. I've acknowledged it may well be futile in this day and age and what happens is symptomatic of the modern world. If one 'genuine fan' is priced out, they'll always be some floating fan who has every right to be there who'll take their place. Clubs charge whatever they can get away with as long as the demand is there and people are willing to pay. You mention prejudice - the prices now are exclusive and prohibitive and not open to all. Is that not a form of prejudice? I just think football is playing a dangerous game with its loyal, core support and it could come back to haunt clubs in the future. It isn't merely about prices though. I can't see how any genuine Arsenal fan could find a counter argument to any of their proposals. If anyone can, let's hear it please.

  18. KC

    Oct 18, 2014, 9:18 #59568

    Our board is a gross group of right wing dictators who have no respect for the fan base, a group that our manager has gladly jumped into bed with. The response to questions is shameful by all. Wenger's reluctance to answer questions is both cowardly and pathetic, an example of a man that is so up his own arse he can not handle being questioned, how arrogant do you have to be to not accept questioning? Off to the game today to support and hope we win while at the same time fuming at Wenger's defensive transfer dealings that stop us having any hope of challenging for the two major trophies. Yes angry because I support and hope we win its more than just a day out, that attitude is for lazy fans that have no desire or ambition, football is about emotion that's what makes it great, its not about "oh well there's always next week"

  19. Hiccup

    Oct 18, 2014, 8:58 #59566

    Rocky, leaving wenger aside, even if the BSM membership grew to 60,000 and filled the emirates every week, your voices would still not be heard. I also know the day tripper tourist fan irks many on here, but surely they too have as much right to go watch arsenal without any prejudice? Just like anti or pro wenger fans should be able to go without any intimidation. Besides, without the day trippers how on earth would they fill the emirates at these astronomical prices? I know your beef is with the prices, so the club depends highly on the tourists, and truth be known, would rather replace the BSM fans with these. Been said a thousand times and it's always going to fall on deaf ears, but if only 40,000 turn up every week, Gazidas would personally be inviting your movement in to his office to see what you want changing to fill the ground up again.

  20. Rocky RIP

    Oct 18, 2014, 8:50 #59565

    BSM LOL - complete ignorance displayed from you I'm afraid. Take the time, do some research. Fast forward to a time when Wenger is no longer around ie. remove Wenger from the equation - the issues the BSM have and their proposals will remain exactly the same. Does Wenger set season ticket prices? A different manager wouldn't change a thing about ticket prices and Kroenke's call on raising them, bringing back the clock end, safe standing, the make up of the board, etc. Hence, why I ask to set your views on Wenger aside.

  21. DW Thomas

    Oct 18, 2014, 2:27 #59563

    It's deluded pin heads like Jamie and other AKBs that keep Arsene in his job. But, hey if we tie Hull we're still on a great unbeaten run! Muppets!

  22. JAMIE

    Oct 17, 2014, 23:04 #59562

    BSM LOL-What makes you think you wobs are the voice of Arsenal.Most wobs I've met are pathetic lard arse glory hunters with very little knowledge of Arsenal who just follow the opinions of talk ****e and tabloid tattle.Who cares if most of you have been priced out you only ever attended the big games anyway and hate it because you cant anymore.You'll just have to get off your backsides and get a bit more productive instead of just protesting and talking bollocks to each other all day.

  23. BSM LOL

    Oct 17, 2014, 22:32 #59560

    Rocky RIP. An advocate of the BSM: the BSM are symptomatic if everyting that is wrong with this club. The BSM are as spineless as the fans inside the ground. First and most obvious question is WHY would you ask proper to set aside the Wenger issue? Wenger is THE biggest issue at the club because it's his weak, inept management that makes the prices fans pay a joke. It's his comical incompetence in the transfer market that grates. His lack of tactical acumen and his happiness to pick up his fat wages whet acting as a buffer for the board is what has got us in this 4th place farce, that charges a kings random but yet hasn't finished inside the top 2 of the league for a whole decade! BSM are cowards because they refuse to address the Wenger issue. A total joke in itself. Wenger often makes comments belittling the fans who pay his ridiculous salary, he has refused to do the Q&A, he takes the p*** by starting a season with just 6 defenders. Running the club like Blackpool, accountable to nobody, a Specialist in Failure. Only ever able to talk about who he "almost" signed etc. grow a pair BSM. No wonder you're derided as just another spineless, incoherent farce. Just another AKB front. No wonder Wenger and Kroenke feel they can take the Mickey with such spineless buffoons around...

  24. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 17, 2014, 22:31 #59559

    Hiccup, did you ask GBP for permission before you agreed with BADARSE.

  25. Just a cup team now

    Oct 17, 2014, 22:22 #59558

    I think Phill Wall's diagram should include: Pass on replacing Gilberto Silva/Arteta is pony & trap!!!

  26. Rocky RIP

    Oct 17, 2014, 21:59 #59557

    LEAVING WENGER ASIDE, to anyone who genuinely loves The Arsenal but is disgruntled with the club's relationship with its core support; feels marginalised, disenfranchised, disconnected from the club you love, and by the sterile, corporate atmosphere and phoney 'match day experience' where passionate, vociferous support is frowned upon;to the point where you'd rather save you money and watch it in a pub with proper fans standing and singing; peeved with Stan Kroenke's indifference towards fans, fanshare and his clear intentions to make a profit from our hard earned wages; ticket prices; PR double speak and spin, etc, etc - I urge you to take the time to read up on the BSM. Often misunderstood, often maligned, but 100% bona fide Gooners who love The Arsenal but share our pain at the direction the club has taken and the way the club takes us for granted, or prices us out, often in favour of spineless day trippers with little knowledge of Arsenal's traditions and values. The BSM are old school Arsenal to the core. From a time when being Arsenal was a part of your identity, not some hobby on the side. Trying to be heard is increasingly futile in modern football. It's not the people's game any longer, the people don't count according to those who run the clubs. The BSM is about the only voice we have to voice these feelings in my opinion. Ensuring future generations of fans grow up with the Arsenal habit. Where are the swathes of teenagers who are tomorrow's season ticket holders? We'll end up with half-hearted watery fans at this rate. Futile and naïve maybe, but they are the largest supporters group and snow-balling. A vast number of voices can't be ignored forever if everyone is united. Wishful thinking, but I feel it's about all we've got. Sorry to be patronising, if it's not for you, fine, but if you haven't researched their aims please do. (I don't work for them by the way. I'm not sure they even know who I am! But they speak for me and many others who adore Arsenal but don't recognise the club they fell in love with sometimes.)

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 17, 2014, 21:42 #59556

    BADARSE, had a mouse in the house ourselves last year, it really puts you off your stroke at night, the neighbour keeps turf and there's nothing they like more to live in and breed, we eventually got rid though, if only getting rid of the Emirates mouse was as easy but I doubt there's any traps big enough but they might not be needed if what we read and hear is anything to go by that there's a couple of cats prowling the Emirates boardroom ready to pounce.

  28. GBP

    Oct 17, 2014, 20:30 #59555

    Hiccup lad - im beginning to love yr posts - 'absurd views'Ha. Love it. Funny. The thing is, what always gets under the radar on our exchanges on here, is that such as Baddie and myself do actually recognize the fault lines in the Club and in Wenger as a Coach. When we say which ones we accept, it gets ignored and just cos the words 'bullet' and 'fired ' dont get used! We just see the remedies in a less extreme way than you and get blasted to smithereens for it off you lot. In a way we get the best of both Worlds ie accepting AW s tenure is closing but not needing to take a chainsaw to it as a clear alternative isnt yet apparent. If there was one and it was undoubtedly better for AFC id stand up and support it, even if AW was needing to be turfed out forthwith. The notion we re his devoted followers is where youre all going wrong bud.

  29. jeff wright

    Oct 17, 2014, 19:35 #59554

    jjetplane, if you stuck a straw-boater on his head Wenger would be a ringer for Maurice Chevalier ! All it needs is for an Edith Piaf look-alike singing Mauvais Matelot to complete the decadent illusion. .......... Regarding Brucie,he knows only too well that you get nothing for a pair in this game.

  30. Hiccup

    Oct 17, 2014, 19:28 #59553

    Agree Baddie. I find now I will walk out of a supermarket and leave a full trolley if they don't honour the £2 off coupon I have because it's invalid for some reason in the small print I haven't read. I think I do it more to embarrass the missus who goes mad in the car. I admire jj's stance and his love for grass roots football. I know we enjoy ribbing you and GBP for your absurd views, but some of the posts where fans are complaining about spending £2k on a season ticket and spitting feathers about the sh!t being served up are just as hilarious. At least in these bubbles that you two own, it gives you enjoyment!

  31. BADARSE

    Oct 17, 2014, 19:03 #59552

    OK, understood Hiccup. Your position is one I admire. I have some deep-seated principles, which as the years go by seem a little ludicrous, but it gets me through the night. I never eat in MacDonald's, I won't eat or drink in huge chains, but every now and again I am compromised by circumstance. I bought a badge saying NO UKIP, what a waste of time, but something I needed to do still. I get the hump paying two quid to pass under the Dartford Tunnel, toll bridges in the third millennia, how archaic is that? Money makes nothing go out of date, unless it suits. Power to the people chum, and three points tomorrow.

  32. Hiccup

    Oct 17, 2014, 18:52 #59551

    Evening Baddie. You couldn't be further from the truth. If fans like yourself and say GBP think wenger and the club are doing well, or as well as can be expected against the oil men or for whatever reason then that's honestly fine with me. Why would you need to ask any probing questions? You put me in a room with Gazidas or wenger and there is honestly not one question I have for these guys. I would walk out. You see, if I go to my local and every time I go the bar and give the smiley landlady a £20 note and she gives me change for a tenner every time, then I know the score and wherei I stand. If after 12 months of being taken for a mug, I don't need to add insult to injury and ask her 'why do you rip me off?' It's because I allow her to and she knows she will continue to. As you say, it's a cosmetic charade, and asking questions what are the justifications for Kroenke's £3m advisory payment is funnier than the actual transaction.

  33. jjetplane

    Oct 17, 2014, 18:51 #59550

    Same thoughts JW looks like he is camping it up (French Cabarets under Vichy) - all the signs point to an 'end of the pier' production and the badge in absolute corporate splendour reeks banality. The club is such a joke today's news is who Arsenal could have signed (Messi when he was 15 - yawn). Good thing it's only Brucie visiting tomorrow - or is it? Touch line handbags is always possible as Bouldie warms up to go on ......

  34. I remember when Arsenal cared about its supporters.

    Oct 17, 2014, 18:45 #59549

    Oh dear GBP- I had no idea " the no alternative "defeatists had taken over the gooner comments, its worst than I thought. You live in your world , I will continue to strive for something better.

  35. jeff wright

    Oct 17, 2014, 18:22 #59548

    Wenger looks like a comedian in that picture at the top of the page telling old gags that everyone has heard before. There is no doubt in my mind that his employers those unsavoury unscrupulous characters who run AFC now days much prefer the tourists and day trippers that go to home games for ' The Emirates Experience ' on a day out, or as part of their holiday itinerary, to real football supporters . Real Arsenal supporters want to see real football played for the purpose of competing realistically for trophies, instead of us being given a football lesson by Dortmund in Europe and languishing behind the spuds and Fat Sam's 'ammers in mediocre midtable after 8 games played in the Prem - these games being against mostly modest opposition. The Chelsea result was of course predicable - with yet another defeat chalked up by Inspector Clueless to Mourinho. Supporters would also like to have seen the money made from increase on the already highest ever ticket prices in English, and possibly European football, invested for that purpose, rather than being given to Silent Stan for some alleged advice that he has provided regarding finances. Considering that this resulted in the 3% ticket increase it would appear that crime does pay after all. Every game now ,starting tomorrow , is a cup final,can Arsene stand the pressure of it all,he is looking thinner and nervy than ever , the jokes sound flat and dated,just like his training regime and football tactics. Back to 4-4-2 looks to be the best option to try and save face because that 4th place is not guaranteed this season as it was last time. Even Stan will not put up with less.

  36. Sam

    Oct 17, 2014, 18:02 #59547

    I'm actually deeply pissed off that one of the richest clubs in the world doesn't pay the London Living Wage. The rest is just predictable. Only point of interest is whether Ivan and Arsene get on or not. Not that it makes any difference to the way the club is run.

  37. BADARSE

    Oct 17, 2014, 17:51 #59545

    Evening Hiccup. Nothing much passes over my head when I read, I have even learned how to read between the lines. I believe your post, as ironic as it was, posed a tacit inadequacy on anyone else to ask a question of AFC's handlings, or the AFC reps stilted answers. I happen to be in accord with you on this, not against. These events, and they are events, are cosmetic and merely staged. It is a sad state of affairs, but it is in most things we encounter now. It is strange how most mark many down as lepers, the untouchables of the onlineGooner, just because we don't quite agree on one fundamental point. Just one-AW. It is fundamental it's true but most of the bitchiness and rancour comes from your side of the fence. Life is not necessarily milk and honey for people, and then to be lambasted for what amounts to a slight difference is weird. Some are those types, who just want to tear down the walls for no reason, some are free-loaders who latch onto a theme, some are 'I want it all' types, but the majority are like yourself, Arsenal fans who think something needs changing. Things will change soon enough my friend.

  38. GBP

    Oct 17, 2014, 17:41 #59544

    MG - Often wrong bud. Guilty as charged! Some how cant recall you ever achieving it though? You ll have to recall and let me know when it happened. Have a good week end bud.

  39. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 17, 2014, 17:14 #59542

    So Kev basically the AGM was just like OGL's pre match interviews, team talks, line ups, tactics, substitutions, post match interviews,(excuses) very predictable.

  40. Hiccup

    Oct 17, 2014, 17:13 #59541

    Baddie, I don't have a question for them? Which part of my post of let them get on with it without interference passed over your head?

  41. jjetplane

    Oct 17, 2014, 16:42 #59540

    BzZZZZZZZzZ repetition of last post and one before.

  42. BADARSE

    Oct 17, 2014, 16:34 #59539

    So what's your question Hiccup? Would it be 'Why?', as in why is this the model you work to, why don't you do what I want, why is this run like a business, why are the times a-changing? and so on. You've read the account. These people are up, beyond the stratosphere. They have a policy. We have to decide to change with the times or become a dinosaur. To stay or walk away. To give up on it all, or to get what we can from it. Simple choices. Perhaps not so nice, so acceptable, but a choice all the same. I don't like much of what passes for modern existence. Untrained lollipop ladies are a gripe of mine. Little or no training, trying to hold back the tide, at least the tide of traffic, causing mayhem by not letting the traffic flow. When the underlying problem is too many cars on the road, and still they clamour for more. Life and it's carbuncles in microcosm my friend. Welcome to the race. What race? The human race-all running in a circle. 'Baby you can drive my car.' Beep, beep, and beep, beep, yeah, move over.

  43. Hiccup

    Oct 17, 2014, 16:15 #59538

    Those pesky supporters really are a pain in the backside. Asking all sorts of questions and harrassing poor mr wenger for answers that security need to step in. Why can't fans just let them be and get on with the grand job of performing miracles on and off the pitch in times of recession. After all, it's the fans that are benefitting with a world class squad with plenty of depth on the pitch, and a solvent club that will continue to thrive making profits off the pitch. Why can't our fans model themselves like those that frequent on here, who are willing to tow the company line without question?

  44. AMG

    Oct 17, 2014, 15:55 #59537

    The whole lot of them remind me of the board of the co-op bank. They think they're untouchable, a shake up is badly needed. It seems that only IG is starting to feel uncomfortable with the incompetence around him, the rest are happy to keep riding the gravy train, not an Arsenal fan amongst them!

  45. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 17, 2014, 15:44 #59536

    andy1886, good shout but I doubt very much it would make much difference either way. Roy we know who's fault it won't be, the poor laundry lady will be in trouble again.

  46. BADARSE

    Oct 17, 2014, 15:36 #59535

    'Hello. So who are you then?'-'I am the Great Griff.'-'Oh, well I am...'-'I know who you are mortal, you are BADARSE, that irritant from OnlineGooner.'-'Well thank you very much, not very nice though. Anyway, what do I call you, Great, er Griff?'-'Griff will suffice, no one else is listening so it hardly matters.'-'So what are you then, one of those gods?'-'Nay, foolhardy man, I am The Great Griff, I created all the other gods, to do my bidding.'-'What like every god is just a lackey of yours?'-'Precisely, though lackey is a tad cutting, young BADARSE.'-'Not that young, I'm afraid Griff.'-'You are to me boy! I am eternal.'-'Alright keep your hair on, and such snowy, long, white hair it is too.'-'Enough of your prattle.'-'I was wondering, so you are like the top cat? You created the other gods, they do the work,so what do you do?'-'Ah, not a lot, sadly. It used to be quite good, bouncing around on a cloud, now with all this air traffic I have no peace, it's not so good.'-'Listen to you complaining. Down there it's all war and pestilence all over the shop-not quite sure what pestilence is though, is it a bit like having mice in the house?'-'Stay your tongue boy!'-'Sorry, just teasing.'-'Yes, you do a lot of that.'-'So Griff, if the other gods are sort of running things, it's them that causes all the suffering, not you?'-'True BADARSE, why initially I just amused myself with fripperies.'-'Our Bard does that Griff, he's a fripping frippist, ha ha.'-'No laughing, this is a sombre time-at least for me. I feel melancholy, always liked that word. As I was saying, I would think of a tune and place it into a songwriter's head and see what occurred, why, "Sprains and Tears and Pains", was mine until Bacharach decided to change it. Though I was responsible for the whole misguided Punk era, I liked that one.'-' Hang on, why that type of thing?'-'Well I don't do real anguish, it's the other ones who like hurting. And you know how unruly a mob can be, look at the herd on the OnlineGooner, you see boyo. Oh dear, I just slipped into my Welsh accent.'-'You're not Welsh.'-'I am too lad, ee bah gum. Oh dear, now it's the Yorkshire side. You see I am omniscient, of course omnipresent too, oh and naturally omnipotent.'-'Lot of 'Oms' there Griff, you aren't a yogi too?'-'Mmm, 'fraid so.'-'So what do you do all day Griff?'-'Hoots mon, I have wee quirks. I plague your football team with injuries. I like doing that.'-'What so it's you is it? There we all were thinking it might be the surface, the training, our medical team-even though we changed them, some even said it was our manager's fault.'-'Goodness me, goodness gracious, chicken vindaloo, they'd blame him for anything. Remember a football fan is very low on the evolutionary scale.'-'That's not very nice Griff, they may be a bit odd, but aren't we all?'-'You said it BADARSE.'-'I hate to have to tell westlower that it was you all the time, just having your evil fun.'-'Ahh, wicked, but not evil. Now didn' oi shillelagh, blarney stone, oi'll be 'avin' just one more, didn' oi, didn' oi. Sorry BADARSE, it's the Irish bit of me, They talk so much it's worn a groove in my voice box, on the Irish side.'-'Steady Griff, remember who you are talking to, I've got Irish blood.'-'It shows sonny, it shows.'-'Well I'd better get back down to earth-go and tell the lads our injury crisis is your fault.'-'They won't believe you silly boy. They never listen to anything you say. Just a tip, keep an eye on that lad DJ, I have high hopes for him.'-'Bye Griff, nice chatting.'-'Bye BADARSE. Oh, I'm bored, (yawn), you couldn't make it up.'

  47. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 17, 2014, 15:14 #59532

    So OGL still want's to be right, and still obsessed with proving everybody else wrong by the sound of things, a lot of good that will do after ten years, anyway i don't know how he's going to do that after been proved wrong so many times himself.

  48. GBP

    Oct 17, 2014, 14:58 #59530

    I remember when - its called corporatism. Yes, his job is to swerve and bull**** where necessary. Hes good at it, thats why they pay him well. As he does it well it keeps share prices high. Hes worth every penny of his salary. A top man. You have a choice. He doesnt. He has to do it every day. If you know what he is, you can ignore him. Its easy. You don't have to like him or agree his methods. AFC love him. Its the new football World.

  49. maguiresbridgegooner

    Oct 17, 2014, 14:35 #59528

    A bit short with the injuries we've had, no shyte Sherlock, I suppose we wouldn't be if we had none,you couldn't make it up.

  50. jjetplane

    Oct 17, 2014, 14:35 #59527

    Great stuff ANDY1886 and I guess the reason he does not invovle himself with purely football matters is that he really has not got a clue! Never has but then I am sure Adams and Viera thought the same when the masking his deficiencies by running the team themselves. He is a lazy rich man of little motivation and now just lets the likes of Arteta to do the Adams thing and if we remain 8th for the duration lets hope Stan throws his lot in and gets an extra saddle for le prof. Arsenal board is beginning to resemble FIFA in its machinations. Stan Blatter.

  51. I remember when Arsenal cared about its supporters.

    Oct 17, 2014, 14:29 #59525

    The real issue here is the power Ivan the Terrible has within the club and his sycophantic disingenuous and cynical attitude to the fans. The man sells snake oil for a living. In 19th Century America he would be run out of town. The board have no power over him as he delivers a buffer to absent Stan and uses Wenger as a mythical creature that protects the club from oblivion. When PR is considered more important than honesty then you get the Ivan the Terribles of this world employed. Who would have ever thought this glorious historical club would allow such people to destroy it in its name?

  52. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 17, 2014, 14:14 #59522

    Who or what is the old fraud looking at in the accompanying photo as he talks gobbledegook? It can't be into fans faces anyway.

  53. TJ

    Oct 17, 2014, 13:24 #59518

    Wenger said in an interview that 4-4-2 is his favourite formation. Giroud would be (has been, in fact) brilliant as a second striker. The goal of the season against Norwich was just that kind of example. Only problem is, other than Sanchez and AOC, do we have the wingers for it? Might need more depth. Also, what about the wealth of midfielders? Would it be Ramsey and Wilshere? I would love to see us switch to the old counter attacking over this defunct tiki taka style, with 4-4-1-1 used against the smaller teams at least.

  54. Roy

    Oct 17, 2014, 13:21 #59517

    So, If Hernandez gives Monreal the runaround tomorrow, whose fault is it ? Probably wouldn't have got a straight answer to that, either.

  55. Westlower

    Oct 17, 2014, 13:04 #59516

    @Charlie, He has total control over the team, not the club.

  56. kilkenny cat

    Oct 17, 2014, 13:00 #59515

    Wouldn,t believe a word from any of them. Liars and thieves. It sounds like the freemasons. Secrets and lies that only they know.

  57. DJ

    Oct 17, 2014, 13:00 #59514

    Finsbury Boy: Great point, the insistence on playing with one up front especially against the weaker teams has become laughable in recent seasons. What with playing four central midfield players in three positions has made it easy for our opponents to defend the middle as we have no width and numbers to cause a threat. That we may sometimes return to 442 was the only interesting point to come out of the AGM as our board are adept at the smoke and mirrors to keep us in the dark. Let us hope that our makeshift defence can hold out Hull Saturday and we start a profitable run.

  58. BADARSE

    Oct 17, 2014, 11:56 #59512

    I'll go along with that Finsbury Boy. I too have long advocated a twin spearhead. Actually, played correctly we have two perfectly suited players, the tall and powerful Giroud, and the fleet-footed Welbeck. If that proves to be the case and that man is purchased in January, (I would think AW has a man in his sights), we may salvage the season despite the injuries sustained.

  59. Ozzie

    Oct 17, 2014, 11:55 #59511

    Thanks andy1886, a point well made. Was thinking earlier, let Wenger manage the club & employ someone to concentrate on & COACH the team. We need someone with up to date football nouse & no distractions from the prime objective of results on the pitch.

  60. Finsbury Boy

    Oct 17, 2014, 11:48 #59510

    I hope the comment from Arsene Wenger regarding 4-4-2 wasn't another red herring. Throughout his managerial career he always used 4-4-2 at all the clubs he managed and stayed with it at Arsenal until Viera Bergkamp ant then Henry moved on. Fabregas then became our main man and Wenger changed the system to use him to best effect. This almost worked in the season we blew up at Birmingham.However Cesc moved on and for some reason we persevered with the same system without replacing the man who made it run.This has evolved into the current Tika Taka slow moving game we have now. At odd times in last couple of years we have reverted to 4-4-2,usually when we are chasing games, most notably in the cup final last year and there is always a notable improvement in performance. Let's hope the penny has dropped and we finally get back to a system that suits our players instead of constantly playing, players out of position in an unsuitable system.

  61. andy1886

    Oct 17, 2014, 11:40 #59509

    "So don't let's be in a muddle who calls the shots about FOOTBALL at Arsenal Football Club. It is not the chairman, it is not the fans, it is Mr Arsene Wenger." "That is exactly how it should be. You cannot let a committee run a fooball team." But he didn't say the team did he? He said the football CLUB, and NO Arsene should ABSOLUTELY NOT run the club. Perhaps if he concentrated more on his team responsibilities and less on matters that really shouldn't be his remit then performances and results might improve. Incidentally, a committee shouldn't run a football team but then again neither should one man. Ferguson stayed on top but delegating to and updating his coaching staff, not by doing it all himself. Then again I expect that he was actually held to account, unlike his opposite number at the Grove.

  62. BADARSE

    Oct 17, 2014, 11:25 #59508

    Thanks Kevin, a good report for us to absorb, and your sardonic view is shared by most. All very dispiriting, but fitting perfectly with perceived views of those holding the reins. We are but a nuisance, or in westlower's lingo, merely a burr under the saddle.

  63. jeff wright

    Oct 17, 2014, 11:17 #59507

    What is not in question is that the non-reply to some pertinent questions, regarding why more players were not signed, is par for the course with this current regime. Also Ivan Has done a massive u-turn regarding the cash available for Wenger to sign and pay top players wages with . Presumably we can't now afford to sign Rooney whereas last season we could! Is this downward curve in the club's finances really worth paying the old 70s porno mustachio Stan 3m for his advice on how to achieve it > ?

  64. Ozzie

    Oct 17, 2014, 10:59 #59506

    Christ! All this just for a footy club? I heard a couple of poms today commentating a basketball game - a basketball game?? Should have heard them......dee-fence, off-fence. What a larf, Uncle has you in his pocket. Anyone for cricket then? P.S. Thanks Cornish, have one on me eh?

  65. Westlower

    Oct 17, 2014, 10:42 #59504

    What isn't complicated is the statement by Sir Chips Keswick. "So don't let's be in a muddle who calls the shots about FOOTBALL at Arsenal Football Club. It is not the chairman, it is not the fans, it is Mr Arsene Wenger." That is exactly how it should be. You cannot let a committee run a fooball team.