Bloody Hull…

Online Ed: Two points dropped at home to Steve Bruce’s men



Bloody Hull…


“We have in front a very important season. We have already lost some ground against the top teams but we think we can come back. I am here to tell you that I believe we can do well and that I’m willing to fight harder than ever to come out of this season, and hopefully face you next season, being right. We are united. We are determined. And we are ready for the fight. Of course, that’s easy to say. It’s down there [on the pitch] that we show that and we start on Saturday” – Arsene Wenger, Arsenal AGM, 16th October 2014.

Words. Empty rhetoric. Arsenal’s method of attack, largely devoid of width and pace, played right into Hull’s hands and despite territorial and possession dominance, all too rarely actually troubled either of Hull’s keepers.

Here’s another quote. “"I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all that tiki-taka. It's so much rubbish and has no purpose. You have to pass the ball with a clear intention, with the aim of making it into the opposition's goal. It's not about passing for the sake of it… Barça didn't do tiki-taka! It's completely made up! Don't believe a word of it! In all team sports, the secret is to overload one side of the pitch so that the opponent must tilt its own defence to cope. You overload on one side and draw them in so that they leave the other side weak. And when we've done all that, we attack and score from the other side. That's why you have to pass the ball, but only if you're doing it with a clear intention. It's only to overload the opponent, to draw them in and then to hit them with the sucker punch. That's what our game needs to be. Nothing to do with tiki-taka." This was Pep Guardiola speaking after a Munich derby against Nurnberg last season.

Arsenal are still trying to weave the ball through the middle of massed ranks. It has happened a lot at home this season, and it feels like it has been going on for a number of years. The tension is whether they will break down the walls and convert, and they managed this twice yesterday, due to the abilities of Alexis Sanchez but it wasn’t enough to prevent the loss of two points.

After the glorified friendly that was the Community Shield filled fans with early optimism, the reality is that Arsenal have only performed convincingly on two occasions this season, in 13 matches. In 2013/14, matches against this type of opposition were being won. In recent weeks, we have seen draws with Leicester and Spurs. However, it would be wrong to simply focus on Arsenal’s generally predictable method of attack, as the goals to win these matches have been, eventually, converted. The main problem lies at the other end. The team are not defending well in the games against the lesser lights. And that is down to a mixture of poor defensive organisation/discipline and personnel. Unfortunately, the responsibility for that lies in only one place.

A friend emailed me this morning to give the view that, “Even if we were not historically plagued by injuries it was criminal to start the season with only two recognized defenders. Koscielny and Mertesacker are not good enough to win us the title even at their very best. They need at the very least adequate back-up to keep them on their toes and have pressure for their first team status. Even if they are out of form they are automatic starters. That's not healthy. Furthermore, all it took was one injury for us to have to start Monreal at centre back. This situation is criminal and so predictable. I'm not surprised. The only surprise is that it happened so quickly. Ivan Gazidis should have Wenger in his office giving him a right old telling off. If Wenger wants full control on the playing side these errors are his and his alone. The problem for Gazidis is that he has a board and owner who don't give him the necessary backing to apply the proper pressure on the manager. Peter Lawwell turned down the job of Arsenal CEO because he didn’t want to become the first CEO in the history of football to have to answer to a manager. There is no excuse for the current problems. Alas, I can't say I'm at all surprised.”

As was made clear in Thursday’s AGM, Stan Kroenke loves Arsene Wenger, and the reason is that he delivers what Kroenke wants from the business. Profit and asset value growth. Chairman Sir Chips Keswick summed up the board’s involvement with the football side beautifully. “If Arsene has a plan we back it. If Arsene does not have a plan we keep quiet.” Enough said. Football strategy at director level, anyone? What happens if the manager is run over by a bus? (More likely than being sacked, naturally)

The concern, after witnessing many of the performances so far this season, is that the team seems to be in decline, that last season was actually a peak rather than a springboard to greater success. As good as it gets under Wenger since the stadium move. Flatter to deceive in the league, before being undone by injuries and lack of knowhow in the big matches (2008, 2010, 2014), but at least win a domestic cup (finally, after a nine year wait, last May).

The match against Hull was supposed to be the beginning of a run of winnable fixtures that would propel the Gunners back into contention, keep them within at least shouting distance of the leaders. Instead, amongst those above the team in the table are Southampton and West Ham. Arsenal have failed to win six of their opening eight league matches.

Whether or not they will be without Jack Wilshere for a while remains to be seen, but the challenge that led to his injury demonstrated a lack of maturity that really should have been coached out of him by now. Talented footballer yes, but his hot-headed nature will mean he never fulfils the promise he showed when he was a teenager. Elsewhere, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain had a stinker. Only Alexis and substitute Joel Campbell – who tried to do something different and proved difficult to handle – came out with any real credit from this fixture.

Sure, the referee should have blown for a foul on Hull’s first goal. But to solely blame this performance on the official does little to explain the visitors’ second goal at the start of the second half, which was simply an example of atrocious defending. Worryingly, Per Mertesacker is beginning to look like a busted flush, although the cross that exposed him should never have been allowed in the first place. It was a litany of errors.

Arsenal huffed and puffed in search of an equaliser in a game that should have been comfortable after Alexis’ fantastic opening goal (an example of what can happen when a player beats his man and then does something decisive rather than look for a tika-taka pass). When Welbeck finally pulled Arsenal level during injury time there was brief hope they could nab a winner in the remaining minutes. Certainly Hull wasted time, but the referee added it on, and the Gunners have to ensure that the opposition at the Grove have no reason to delay the taking of goal kicks or using the tactic of getting the physio on to disrupt momentum.

Arsenal may be eleven points off the leaders, but they are somehow in sixth place in spite of only winning two matches. It means the holy grail of Champions League qualification is still very much on the agenda, but as far as another 30 Premier League matches are concerned, this observer can’t get particularly excited about that. It already feels like it is going to be a long season, which really shouldn’t be the case in mid-October. There will be no title challenge this time around, and the main reason for that is that Arsenal are not good enough defensively. And you don’t need to have worked half a day in football to know whose responsibility that is. Another two and a half years of this. Roll on 2017, and please God, not another contract for the man from Alsace. Or is purgatory an infinite state of affairs?

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.

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comments

  1. Charlie George Orwell

    Oct 22, 2014, 13:18 #59908

    Westlower: So you respect and support whoever's the manager, simply because they're the manager? What a poor politicians utter delight you are...

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 22, 2014, 12:55 #59905

    andy1886, and good thoughts they are to, I would have said three years myself maybe even four it's all any manager is going to get nowadays before there's any dissent unless he's a complete imbecile (one was enough) but he'll certainly not get ten years. I can't see him wanting a DOF roll either (lets hope not) and why should he be offered it or take it, would he accept having one pushed on him and be happy to work under one.

  3. jjetplane

    Oct 22, 2014, 11:55 #59900

    Hari Hari/Wenger Wenger/Tippy Tappy/Jamie Jamie ....

  4. JAMIE

    Oct 22, 2014, 11:23 #59897

    I have always found the wob's boring individuals like hare krishna's spouting the same old dung all day.Yet my love of winding the buggers up and the odd funny ode which come up now and again keeps me vaguely interested.

  5. Lee Bedford

    Oct 22, 2014, 9:37 #59893

    DJ, Spot on there mate I couldnt have said it much better myself and certainly what I have felt for a number of years now! Things need to change at AFC......

  6. andy1886

    Oct 21, 2014, 23:10 #59883

    Well WL, fair questions and I'll give you my thoughts which are: 1. I expect the board to engage a consultant to look for a new manager - don't be surprised if said consultant is a part of KSE and takes a large fee for their efforts. 2. AW will probably have a role but most likley only in a ambassadorial capacity. I can't see him wanting to be a DoF, as we know he preferred to let Dein handle that side of things when the option was available. 3. Arsene has already stated that he has no wish to be involved in the search or appointment of his successor. 4. Further, Arsene has stated that he and his wife wish to return to France once his time at Arsenal is over, so I cannot see him staying on in any significant capacity. 5. Any new manager will almost certainly bring in his own staff but may keep a senior member of staff on to aid the transition (Steve Bould maybe). 6. Don't expect any major change of the financial model, maybe a new manager will get an initial injection of funds but FFP excludes any significant spending spree (not that Stan would sanction one anyway). 7. Arsenal fans are possibly the most tolerant in the business, two or three years are the minimum I would expect before a new manager's honeymoon period expires. Actually I expect the more rabid of the pro-Wenger brigade to be less patient, I've already seen posts on another site stating that any replacement will be inferior to AW and even ones hoping that he fails just to show that replacing AW would be a mistake. Now if that isn't 'AAA' I don't know what is. Anyway, just my thoughts as I said.

  7. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2014, 20:26 #59872

    Suppose Wenger leaves his job in the morning and becomes Director of Football. Would the new manager be Wengers choice given the board are clueless non football people? If so would AFC be better or worse off, or would the status quo remain? What if the new manager wants to bring in his own backroom staff, would Wenger allow a radical clear out of the existing coaching team? Would the new manager be expected to soldier on with the current squad or would zillions be made available to refresh the team, aka Man U. Alternatively, if Wenger walked away from AFC who can be relied upon to make the necessary football decisions to take the club forward? Come back George Graham, all is forgiven!

  8. andy1886

    Oct 21, 2014, 18:59 #59866

    True enough DJ, these days we'd probably be met with a polite version of "Thanks for your interest in our affairs - now piss off!".

  9. Exeter Gunner

    Oct 21, 2014, 17:11 #59858

    By god you're right, Westlower. People have been so quick to turn on Wenger, haven't they. He's only been in the job 18 years... we're knee-jerking after only 9 years of same issues repeated over and over... Yes, the historical evidence certainly shows AFC supporters will turn on the next guy after 5-6 games.

  10. DJ

    Oct 21, 2014, 16:59 #59856

    remember as a callow 14 year old joining the throng in 1983, after Arsenal lost to Walsall in the league cup and West Brom in the league, outside the marble halls calling for Terry Neil’s head. He should never have dropped Alan Sunderland but that’s beside the point. I can’t imagine such a demonstration ever happening outside our luxurious surrounding these days whoever was in charge and what ever the results. Arsenal have become your archetypical middle class club, first with a top woman football team, first with rainbow laces, first with any right on cause to boost the club’s right on profile. All stuff to be applauded but along the way Arsenal Football Club has lost its working class roots and the passion and drive that goes with it

  11. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 21, 2014, 16:54 #59855

    Bard, hear, hear,

  12. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2014, 16:50 #59854

    How long a honeymoon period will our club loving critics afford the next manager? What's the going rate these days, 5 or 6 defeats, not qualifying for the CL? Will you please turn your dreams into reality asap as I'm holding a betting voucher for 66/1 for Wenger to be the next manager to lose his job. How disingenuous is that? As soon as you decide to oust the NEXT manager please let me know so I can get the best odds, before the angry mob lump on.

  13. Graham Simons

    Oct 21, 2014, 16:50 #59853

    Jacqui Oatley is almost 40! she was doing her job, asking the questions us fans want answering and Wenger didn't like it. Seemingly no-one holds Arsene to account. If journos don't then who will?

  14. andy1886

    Oct 21, 2014, 16:27 #59852

    Nice piece there Hi Berry, it sure is a different world now, on the up side it's great that your daughter can play football at a high level, something back in the day that would have induced an aneurysm at FA HQ. On the down side we've gone from Maggie's 'scum' to Kroenke's cash cow in around thirty years. I rather liked the journey somewhere in the middle although as Bard alludes to the early 80's were a bit dire (and crowds of circa 2ok suggested that many others opted out too). The difference was that we knew Neill would get the boot (less than three years after making four cup final appearances in three years), and later Don Howe paid the price for poor performances too. Now the chance of our current manager being accountable are slim to non-existant.

  15. Exeter Gunner

    Oct 21, 2014, 16:13 #59850

    Westlower, after all this time you're still getting it wrong. Turning on the manager of the day is not the same as turning on the club. You're not going to disingenuously guilt trip people into supporting Wenger, I'm afraid.

  16. jjetplane

    Oct 21, 2014, 15:21 #59848

    WESTIE to write piece entitled I do not love Wenger. Should be a great read. Looks like your 3 men in a Boat is now a 2 man craft. Emirates ahoy! Keep rowing Baddie!

  17. jeff wright

    Oct 21, 2014, 15:20 #59847

    Westie,you could have fooled me regarding your claims that you don't love Wenger! Blimey,you really could not make it up. Blind loyalty is not something to be proud of either, why should Wenger be given unreserved support and respect just because he is the manager of AFC ? No manager anywhere at any club,even Sir Fergerson, has ever had that ,managers have to earn respect and support that is the way of the beast in competitive pro sport. Wenger's been around too long to play the loyalty card and he has too many shortcomings and unpleasant traits to his character to expect everyone to respect him personally has a person - based solely on what he did in another lifetime at Highbury. I'm struggling to find anything else to respect him for tbh. He is no paragon of virtue that's for sure. He is entitled to be given credit for those achievements but this is nothing to do with how he is perceived now days after a rather long time at AFC, he can't be expect to dine out for ever on past long ago glories. Football is always about the next game ,and that is how it should be. Wenger will be given support for this and he is entitled to get that,but he can't expect not to be criticized if the result is a poor one due to his own mismanagement failings . This is normal at any club anywhere only the deluded AKB and the money motivated Stan and stooges in suits at Arsenal act differently to the norm regarding that and they have introduced a different set of rules for Arsene that no other manager at any other club has .Wenger wouldn't last long at these other clubs where 4th place is a failure and not a trophy.Wenger knows this and this to me makes him a weak man who managers a team of fast track bullies who can mostly beat the lesser sides but bottle it when faced by the better ones, our current side is a reflection of Wenger himself. I had to smile at your comments about Sunderland and Poyet,just as well Arsene never concedes 8 goals then,and what about all of these winning leads that we lose,even a 4-0 one once! You really should have looked at Southampton and their manager to compare things with Arsene's result against Hull and other ones this term ,but hey,I guess that this would not fit your agenda eh Westie >?

  18. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2014, 14:48 #59845

    @JJ After all this time and you've still got me wrong. I do not love Wenger. I respect and support WHOEVER is Arsenal manager. Turning on my own club is not for me, nor is jumping ship!

  19. Bard

    Oct 21, 2014, 14:09 #59844

    Looks like GBP has thrown his toys out of the pram again. Seems to me he has a problem reconciling the differing views on the state of Arsenal, not sure why. There is always a bit of 'who shouts loudest' to all the posts, its part and parcel of trying to win the argument. Some use humour, some use facts. The latest is you can't have a meaningful opinion if you don't go to games. This is b******s. I have gone for years but didnt in the early 80s. Who cares, if you follow Arsenal you are perfectly justified in having an opinion. This is part of the crap about what constitutes a real fan. We are all fans, there is no meaningful distinction to be made. The only ones I take my hat off to are the ones that go to all our CL away games wherever we play them. That level of support is something else.

  20. Hi Berry

    Oct 21, 2014, 13:38 #59843

    GBP - That is a rather black and white view: I thought such ways of looking at things was anathema to you. There are a whole host of reasons why some posters on here don't go to matches - some geographical, some sociological, some financial or a combination of all three in my case. Take me as an example: I once lived just north of London and it was easy to get in the car, pick the A1 up at Hatfield and park just off the Holloway Road - impossible today with parking restrictions. I used to work Saturdays and later ran my own retail business which meant mid-week or Sunday games were the only ones I could attend - of course it was easy then: you just had to pick up the phone, order a ticket and pay with a card. I managed to get to all the games in the 87 League Cup win including a trip up to Sheffield for a Nigel Winterburn winner. Fifteen years ago I did what I imagine jjetplane did and move further away from London for a better quality of life. I would dearly love to be able to get to the Emirates regularly but you know, as you get older life gets in the way. To take my young daughter to see Arsenal would cost in the region of £100 with the punitive membership fee factored in and with a three hour drive there and a three hour drive back. Add in petrol costs and parking/tube fares/food/programme and it's pushing up past £150. That, of course, is assuming you are able to get tickets in the first place. Add into that equation that my daughter plays football at the highest level available for her age which means we regularly leave the house at 6.30am on a Saturday morning to travel as far afield as Lincoln and Gillingham (both the best part of three hour drives) and you might see just how difficult it is not just for me but for lots of people. We did manage to get to the Emirates Cup this year and to be honest the experience was not one I warmed to. As I've said before, the club I knew as a boy (the first match I went to was in the mid-sixties - a 3-2 win against West Ham and I stood right behind the North Bank goal up against the fence) has long gone and been replaced with something a little less tasteful to my mind. I don't know what the above makes me in your eyes - a fan or a supporter? I buy merchandise for my daughter and subscribe to Sky - does that count in my favour? I hope we're not getting to the point where only those who attend home and away games are deemed worthy enough to voice their opinions. I thought I got where you were coming from GBP, as I too think nothing will change at Arsenal as long as the status quo is maintained, but maybe I was wrong. Just because people don't go/can't get to games shouldn't bar them from debate. My view is that many 'stay aways' more have relevant opinions to be aired than most of those that regularly attend matches for the 'Emirates Experience'.

  21. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 21, 2014, 13:08 #59842

    An ESPN poll says 57% of 14,000 polled say OGL isn't the right man to take Arsenal forward. But many of us have known that and have been saying it for years already.

  22. jeff wright

    Oct 21, 2014, 12:34 #59841

    Watching that West Brom - United fun fest last night it was easy to imagine that WBA side causing our defence similar problems . Despite this being one of the poorest United teams for years, and LVG's signings have not improved it so far from last season , it is also clear that the United side is at least on a par with our current Wenger built one. The Dutchman can't be entirely blamed though for the obvious poor defenders that he inherited from Ferguson and Moyes ,whereas Wenger is solely to blame for our duff ones that he signed himself. Tactics also play a part in things and like Gaal, and also Rodgers at Liverpool, Wenger plays a high-line defensive game that leaves spaces for the opposition to exploit with quick counter attacks. We would have done no better at West Brom last night than what United did regarding defending against those tactics. For me this is the biggest problem that Wenger and co face who use these high-line defending tactics- it makes things so predictable - and these days managers like Mourinho and others are gleefully taking advantage of it.GG would have loved playing against these gung-ho merchants . Once again Wenger is facing the situation where he needs 3 goals a game to be sure of having a chance of winning it. You can't win major trophies against top sides playing like this , and the claims that it's entertaining to watch are not supported by the reality of results,and it is a results game and not an entertainment show. United were fortunate ,like us v Hull at home , to scrape a draw against a side that on paper when the fixtures appeared looked like 3 points. Chelsea and City are United's next two games and LVG will be judged on the results of these games ,deja vu Wenger against the top clubs .So far Wenger has had a 2-2 draw at home to City,after leading 2-1,he loses more leads than all the dog owners at Crufft's ,and has lost 2-0 away to Chelsea , losing to Mourinho being par for the course for . If LVG can do any better remains to be seen, but it already looks like there is a three way fight on between United,Liverpool and us for 3rd and 4th place. We still have to play the red mancs and scousers home and away - and those games could be pivotal to our chances of a minor top 4 finish, with similar results being posted by all 3 sides against the 'lesser' opposition the points won or lost against one another will be doubly important.

  23. jjetplane

    Oct 21, 2014, 12:05 #59840

    Oh the drama GBP but what a tedious read about an ongoing situ which is a bore anyway. Think that is why people want change because of the money driven listlessness that surrounds the Emirates and AKB central. I come on here because it would appear I am a follower of Arsenal and do you not except modern football is a globalised matter like anything else so talking fans and supporters is irrelevant if the majority of the poeople as you say who go to matches are tourists and therefore fans. This site will rummage on as people throw the towel in and get forgotten in a post. No big deal but you dramatised it as such though you are forever telling 'that lot' to get a life. This is part of the life and if you are not posting here you will no doubt be semi sermonising elsewhere inbetween the 'buddy' posts. Funniest has to be big time supporter WESTIE who has an unofficial rule book re the gooner online which says 'love Wenger or else ...' BADDIE is probably like a lot of us on here. Likes to post but does he go to the Emirates? I have never been and that just shows what a good gooner I am. Best of luck GBP and may the Conference bring you as much joy as County football does for me. Great last post BArD and 3 months and 18 years is some stretch! Nice one ANDY1886 and I bet OZZIE watches more footer than some on here ....

  24. AMG

    Oct 21, 2014, 12:03 #59839

    GBP, the frequency and length of your posts suggests that you need this outlet more than most. There's no knee jerking on this site, most of these opinions have been formed over the last 9 years of gutless performances. But I agree with you on 1 point, the Wenger argument has been well overcooked as a discussion, there is now a consensus and it's only a matter of time before he's off. I look forward to these new topics of discussion.

  25. Exeter Gunner

    Oct 21, 2014, 11:44 #59838

    GDP, many critical voices on here also make it abundantly clear they attend matches, so unless you think they're all lying, I'm afraid your distinction falls down in the first couple of sentences. And your thesis can just as easily be turned around - why do some find criticism of AW so upsetting? Why do they have such a sentimental attachment to man they've never met and who doesn't know they exist? Why do they feel the need to spend so much time defending him? Why does it seem that any criticism of AW upsets them far more than the club's poor results and performances and perennially unaddressed issues? You see, it works both ways.

  26. GBP

    Oct 21, 2014, 10:58 #59837

    I always distinguish between 'fan' and 'supporter'. The former just follows the Club from afar via internet, press and the tele. The latter often goes to matches via buying a ticket. In Arsenal s case the former in my view are those playing up about Wenger not satisfying their demands. Do they have any entitlement to any legitimate demands? The latter aren't or at least not near so much. Why do people who don't attend any games get so worked up? My impressions of this site here is that there is a high majority who never go to games. They don't enrich Kroenkes ever swelling coffers, dont get ripped off by the dodgy merchandise and rubbish food, appalling tea and coffee and watered down beers either, yet want to be heard calling for the Coach's and players heads? Seems bizarre to me. Maybe its just today's society and people love a 'cyber shout'to convince themselves they've a stake in something to fill a void in otherwise empty lives? What satisfaction can somebody get from seeing heads roll via sackings and resignations when eventually they occur? Its a sign of what wall to wall TV football has done to contributors. Its very caustic and counter productive. I think its time a new direction is adopted by all of you who choose to remain on this site, new topics needed urgently guys. The whole AW thing has been cooked, cooked again and then re cooked till its a cinder now. Nobody's going to alter their views and positions are they? Nobody 'keeps Wenger in a job' be they against or for him.Its a good job that those who do have influence on Clubs dont take heed of the hot air spouted on sites like this one. If they did, Arsenal, United, Liverpool, Everton and Tottenham would all be manager-less and Pellegrini would be on the brink of his P45 too.It would be amusing if your own employer demanded an equivalent performance from you that you demand of Wenger and then to see if any of you lasted the week out. No need to cry ' but he earns 8 Mill' as its all relative. Wages are relative to pressure and profile.Some of you need to think on a bit as you scream for blood. You are in actual fact screaming for some perverse malignant desire to be quenched by drooling over the prospect of the Coach being sacked. You're not looking at things from the interests of the Club at all, though that's the cloak that you dress up your rantings with. Nobody's fooled. Arsenal will roll on regardless as they always have. AW will leave when he and the Board decide the time is right. The Club will remain fairly successful as they progress. In the meantime you lot will carry on trying to eke out some meaning to your lives and probably fail. AW will thus ride off into the sunset with that old leathery grin still intact, the old smugness unruffled, his pockets full and his family secure. Think on guys. Its good bye from me and may your Gods be with you. COYG!

  27. Exeter Gunner

    Oct 21, 2014, 9:33 #59836

    Every top club in the world faces intense scrutiny and reaction to each game from the fans and media. But at no other top club does the manager face no scrutiny from the board, as Sir Chips told us last week. And it's not just one game, is it, that people are reacting to. It's also disingenuous to say reactions are due to 'a defeat', 'a draw' in order to portray any reaction as an over-reaction, when there's a broader pattern there that people are reacting to - as Westlower well knows. A mindset amongst much of the fanbase (or 'customer base' these days, I suppose) that support for Wenger should be unconditional - i.e. that he should not be held to account and all blame for any failings should be directed elsewhere - makes it an awful lot easier for the executive level at the club to also not hold him to account.

  28. Bard

    Oct 21, 2014, 9:07 #59835

    Westie; is the injury comment this year's excuse or the last goodness knows how many years. Its disingenuous to compare with Van Gaal. He's been there 3 months, Wengers been there 18 years. Trust me if Van Gaal doesn't get it right in a season or two he will be out. You can also bet that Untd fans won't be crowing about 4th place finishes.

  29. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2014, 8:49 #59834

    @Andy1886, It's hard to imagine anyone under more scrutiny than Wenger is right now. At which other club would you see such scrutiny & reaction to a game that we did not lose? Who grilled Van Gaal after his 2-2 draw? Supporters who don't bad mouth Wenger are not the enemy of AFC, merely supporters, the same as you. It's not an easy task managing a team with so many injured players at this time. @Maguiresbridge, Yodelling runs this evening at Kempton 7.0. The race has cut up badly and hardly merits a bet. I suspect she'll be running in Dubai through the winter.

  30. Ozzie

    Oct 21, 2014, 7:27 #59833

    Loved your post, andy1886, excellent response. Cornish, thanks for the recommended - nice! How about this: Jackie Evancho O Mio Babbino 2009. If that doesn't melt your heart...

  31. Bard

    Oct 21, 2014, 7:00 #59832

    andy1886, a couple of good posts mate. I completely agree with your argument about accountability. I would go further and suggest that the lack of it extends to the players and is may be a factor in the lack of mental strength that has been so evident over the last years. There is a culture of mediocrity at the club that to my mind is unacceptable. However as is evident on here, many hardcore fans buy into it as well. They will argue that 4th place has been and is a fantastic achievement and we should be grateful.

  32. andy1886

    Oct 20, 2014, 23:14 #59831

    Jim you mysogenistic dinosaur, what exactly is wrong with a young-ish female interviewing Arsene? Why would this affect his ability to respond? Are his brains in his balls or something? Sadly she was far more articulate in her questions than Arsene was in his answers, perhaps she should have submitted them for pre-interview screening to give the poor downtrodden chap a chance to come up with some half decent replies. That said he hasn't found answers to some pretty serious questions in the last half dozen years or so therefore I doubt he'd have fared much better anyway.

  33. andy1886

    Oct 20, 2014, 23:03 #59830

    "@Hazrd By not calling Wenger a stupid, pathetic, senile old fool I am somehow keeping him in his job." Nope, you're not keeping him in a job, that's the syruped one and his poodles, as long as the money keeps coming in of course. If you were really interested in Arsene doing well for the club you'd welcome his cosy position being challenged. People under scrutiny either up their game or quit (either will do). Anyone left to their own devices with no consequences for poor performance will of course utimately lose their edge, take their eye off the ball, become self indulgent and have difficulty evaluating their own performances. While you aren't keeping him in a job the excuses are becoming rather more feeble though, which is irritating. But hey, it's your prerogative, carry on regardless, maybe you'll see light at the end of the tunnel, or perhaps that's just a train coming and there's no way out?

  34. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 20, 2014, 22:26 #59829

    Rocky RIP, you could be right and indeed probably are he could have been sent off that night (for some reason i thought he was subbed better historians than me like BADARSE Ron or westie etc, etc, could confirm it)for retaliation or hitting out at dicko in frustration who had him completely in his pocket all night, yes with a few hits and pull backs that would be frowned upon now but the playmaker was stopped job done.

  35. jjetplane

    Oct 20, 2014, 22:06 #59828

    They got a draw so now we're level pegging with the Spuds and Stoke. You could not make it up.

  36. allybear

    Oct 20, 2014, 21:35 #59827

    Great article Kevin really enjoyed it. Thanks Jeff Wright for making me laugh on a stormy Monday night,you will upset OGL'S forever forgiving followers with some of your comments. Have a good night Jeff

  37. Hiccup

    Oct 20, 2014, 20:44 #59826

    Bard, some of the stuff the AKB's come out with has me in stitches. You can just picture them racking their brains for something original, and credit where credit's due, they deliver. They do raise the important question of how cr@p teams lay down and die against City and Chelsea, but defend with vigour against Arsenal. Hopefully the FA will investigate this. If not, then the least they should do is change the rules of the game as suggested, which will give arsenal a chance of beating these cr@p teams. I see United are losing. Let's hope LVG gets a good grilling by the reporters, otherwise the AKB's will be squealing on here for the rest of the week!

  38. Bard

    Oct 20, 2014, 20:03 #59825

    Hiccup and MG great posts had me in stitches. I love the humour on here almost as much the analysis. Jeff W I wrote something similar. He had nothing to gain and everything to lose by signing a new contract after the FAC win. One way of looking at it is that the board failed him. If they had cared more about him and his legacy rather than the money they should have talked him into resigning. As it stands it looks like a bloody ending.

  39. Rocky RIP

    Oct 20, 2014, 18:50 #59824

    @ Maguiresbridge - similar to the game when Ginola was sent off for Newcastle at Highbury in a league cup game (under Rioch.)Possibly the same game? Dixon had been clattering him all night. In the days when players when in from behind a lot more. Watch it again on youtube - 'Arsenal 2-0 Newcastle, League Cup 1996 (Bruce Rioch v Terry McDermott.)' In the days of proper passion on and off the pitch, proper fans, proper atmosphere. @ UNCHIVES- I like your Man Who Haunted Himself analogy. Cracking film. I've long since thought that the old Wenger got 'lost' in the move across from Highbury in 2006,and only Diaby knows the truth. (I've a feeling Eboue is culpable somehow.) Hence why the new Emirates Wenger is so loyal to Diaby as he fears he could blow his cover. The Arsenal Stadium mystery pt 2?

  40. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 20, 2014, 18:14 #59823

    jw, yes and they'll not like being out done by a woman either.

  41. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 20, 2014, 17:50 #59822

    AA, shouldn't you be at a meeting tonight, but sorry it'll never happen again the next time I see him i'll do what others do i'll drop to my knees.

  42. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 20, 2014, 17:38 #59821

    Exeter Gunner, fair point, now if only we could persuade the other teams not to put up a fight when they play us. That reminds me of the night at Highbury years ago with Ginola up against Lee Dixon, Dicko was stopping him every time he never got past him all night and was eventually subbed, he went off with his hands up in the air shouting in his French accent he won't let me play he won't let me play with the crowd cheering, and Dixon and most of the arsenal players laughing their heads off.

  43. jeff wright

    Oct 20, 2014, 17:17 #59820

    Hiccup, Wenger had a furtive look on his face when asked those questions by that upstart woman and his obvious irritation and lack of having any sensible reply was only too obvious. It shows what a pompous and arrogant person that he is though by his brooding over the questions that he was asked about Silvester that time for so long afterwards. The questions obviously hit a raw nerve. Anyway,I stick with my views that I posted on here after the fortuitous FAC win over,er, Hull, had saved Wenger's job that he should have made that trophy win his swan-song and wished us all au revoir we would have responded with a chorus ,well most of us, of merci beaucoup et bonne chance to wish him well on his way to Brazil where he did face his final countdown in his other job of commenting on les bleus games on TV ,this exposed him to more claims from TV viewers and football pundits that Arsene lacked any input regarding tactical nous and of him talking complete irritating couilles.The French TV company had more couilles than Stan though and put the old has been out to pasture. Even his Legion of Honor gong didnt save him, but then again these medals can be bought on a stall on the Avenue Montaigne in Paris for 5 Euro's and ten milk bottle tops.

  44. Hiccup

    Oct 20, 2014, 17:06 #59819

    Hopefully the website administrator will remove Exeter Gunner's question to Baddie. It doesn't follow the protocol of the site and is well outside the guidelines of questioning allowed. Otherwise we may have another blurt on our hands.

  45. Hiccup

    Oct 20, 2014, 16:46 #59818

    Jeff, if ever proof was needed these AKB's are Arsene FC fans then this furore is proof. Can't beat Hull and no one gives a sh!t, because oh look, Sunderland let 8 goals in? But as soon as a reporter starts asking questions that spell out what an incompetent wenger has been, they're up in arms and stalking her now. I blame Kevin for this. It was he that kept asking wenger why there was no Q&A anymore. Like a dog with a bone, couldn't let it go. And now everyone's at it asking all sorts of questions. If wenger had just replied to the reporter 'why do you look at me', that would have nipped it in the bud.

  46. Bard

    Oct 20, 2014, 16:27 #59817

    WABATTD, those were happy days. 14 pints of Directors ! Youre dad was a legend mate. I was only saying to the missus the other day, Jacqui Oakley what does she know about football ? she should be ironing her old mans shirts not interrogating the great one about his defensive frailties. What kind of upbringing did she have? If she was my daughter I would have banned her from the living room while the football was on. It all gone Pete Tong

  47. Dartford gooner

    Oct 20, 2014, 16:11 #59816

    Well Jim I think she did well. Would you rather have that arse licker John Cross doing the interview at the feet of the master. Never asking anything that might upset the great one. There are many questions that need to be answered and why should Arsene be allowed to dodge them

  48. Nutty's Right Peg

    Oct 20, 2014, 15:50 #59815

    All too depressingly familiar...loaned out my season tkt 3 seasons ago & these performances simply reinforce my decision,no atmosphere at the stadium anymore,I saw & heard real passion last Saturday at Wrexham with just over 8,000 people. Struggling to even look forward to Football First's extended highlights nowadays. Vote with your feet folks,don't give the greedy uninterested yank your hard earned. Stop buying the merchandise....they'll get the message then. It all started going pear shaped when David Dein departed in truth.

  49. GBP

    Oct 20, 2014, 15:36 #59814

    JJ - i keep missing 'the Crucible'. Saw 'View From' .....a few months back. Good stuff. Like all Miilar stuff, he hits on what people are all about. PS i think Jim was on about Robbie Savage!

  50. Exeter Gunner

    Oct 20, 2014, 15:34 #59813

    BADARSE, you mention jeff wright by name a few times there. Nothing on GBP and Jim's latest remarks though. Why would that be? Also not sure what you mean by 'it's evident today on this website' that the 'screaming rabble' 'undo the advantages' of 'heroic men and women'. What precisely is evident? Care to give some examples? Apologies if I'm being a bit too 'Jacqui Oakley' here in trying to get some clarity.

  51. jjetplane

    Oct 20, 2014, 15:27 #59812

    GBP twas Henry Miller (Rosy crucifixion) though Miller (Marilyn's lad) did write some great plays and have seen some big ones Gambon in A View from the Bridge and my cousin was in the latest Crucible (get you). Someone was talking about Nancy boys and I assume they are referring to the no 10's at the Emirates as there is enough of them now for a full hen party with Auntie Arsene keeping them in check. Noticed I did get me Oatleys mixed up with my Oakley's (Annie get your mic...). know what yer mean BARD - like The Gang of Four used to sing; 'its her factory/its her duty' but if you wanna hear/see a great 'girlie' band check Savages (punked out) or Haim (laid back) .... ooooh it's a corner .....

  52. Don't Piss On Me & Say It's Raining!

    Oct 20, 2014, 15:27 #59811

    My kids watch Frozen over and over again. Going to the Arsenal is starting to feel much the same except Frozen cost me £11.99 as opposed to £1000+. Tony Tadley, spot on! Please Wenger just go.......

  53. jeff wright

    Oct 20, 2014, 15:22 #59810

    Wenger will go missing from the post match media calls if results in Europe and in the Prem go pearshaped. Draws , we have more draws than there are in Katie Prices knickers box, will not be enough to hold of the media hounds who will have gleefully noted Wenger's embarrassing stressed out discomfort when he was grilled like a sausage by Jacqui Oatley after another inept display by our garden gnomes .

  54. BADARSE

    Oct 20, 2014, 15:20 #59809

    I have some French friends, females, who play football-well! Oh, and Arsenal have a pretty good team too. This is my last comment on the subject because I am aware my audience is locked-in with the male dominance thing-power glands at work. I've also stopped criticising racist comments, or at least the xenophobes amongst us, especially as jeff wright thought I had it in for him. Anything else? Oh and you do realise we have a world wide reputation as the nation of slaves, because we never do anything except moan about things which we conceive as wrong. Then we happily bend a knee. That is, apart from the few. Those who sacrificed so much to win a few concessions from our masters, only for the rabble to scream at those demanding licence, and undo the advantages won by heroic men and women. History of this country is littered with instances, and I see it on a regular basis, why it's evident today on this website. Wishy washy...hang on, that reminds me, jeff wright was successful in the audition for the role in the Virtual Panto. Look out jeff, we're behind you!

  55. Johnny Lynch

    Oct 20, 2014, 15:20 #59808

    - TO THE EDITOR. Kev, you remind me of Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over, where Our Man Jack soon realises that she deliberately stirs the pot and sits back while the lunatics tear strips off eachother. You're a disgrace mate . You still won't call for Wenger's head outright preferring instead to sow the seeds and let fellow Arsenal supporters fall out with each other whilst in the next breath promoting your latest book about the sorry sack of shi* we've got in charge. Man up and use the platform you have to call for his head

  56. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Oct 20, 2014, 15:20 #59807

    Jim I wholeheartedly agree. We should all go back to the 1950's when women knew their place in society, you could leave your front door open all day, pop into each others houses for cups of tea, real ale, cricket on the green, lashings of ginger ale, full employment, the summers were great, etc etc etc etc etc etc. Least that's what me old man told me after he'd had 14 pints of Directors.

  57. Bard

    Oct 20, 2014, 14:59 #59806

    To no one in particular, I agree women and football dont go together, its the reason society is in decline. Football used to be to reserved for real men. Its been one long slide since we started letting them out of the kitchen. I was only saying to Helen the other day, I do love you but you need to F off back to the kitchen. Jacqui who ? I bet shes never worked a day in football.

  58. GBP

    Oct 20, 2014, 14:50 #59805

    JJ - Ill nail my colours to the mast here. Women in football either commentating (it sounds appalling) or behind a mic need banning. Theyre all trying to show theyre braver than their male counterparts and all prone to get too exited about nothing much, though that's women for you i suppose. We allowed one who was allegedly a woman to have her finger on the nuke button not so many years ago. I still thank heaven she was over 40 by then otherwise we d all have all been blown up depending on mood and, the moons trajectory in the month and the time of it. Gabby Logan s OK so ill excuse her but this is a derogation for no football related reason! Are you alluding to Arthur Millar plays there? Love them!

  59. jjetplane

    Oct 20, 2014, 14:47 #59804

    BADARSE Don't think our great leader has read The Glass Bead Game. Hesse is just so funky man!

  60. David

    Oct 20, 2014, 14:38 #59803

    never realized how well- crafted and taken Welbeck's goal was until I saw it again on youtube.

  61. jjetplane

    Oct 20, 2014, 14:30 #59802

    For some of the useless old men on this site Oatley is a full time football commentator who does matches up and down the country every week. It would not be too outlandish to say that she presently can see the game far better than OGL and he probably felt intimidated because he knew any expansiveness he might have imparted in the exchange would have been shot down. Saying that - Oakley is a right doll and she does scream a bit irrespective of the game's nature but that is passion - pure and simple. Probably the worst thing about the apparently educated manager is the cloak of apathy he wears with such honour. Too much money in the wrong pockets and it shows. Odd thing last saturday while watching a bit of 9th tier football I took to staring at the ground (old man) because it was just like the lod standing steps in grounds of the past. Such a lovely reverie and it really was a great afternoon in a football sense. It really does happen. ps Who are ya? .... BPG big fan of that yankie stuff meself - more for the Kerouac, Miller, Baldwin, Wolf, Roth, Egan and a host of others. Of course Faulkner and Hemingway. ps for the last time WESTIE you old rat you!

  62. GBP

    Oct 20, 2014, 14:28 #59801

    Hiccup - i thought the questions were all OK but she used the word 'blame' as in inviting him to name names. She overstepped there and he was never going to say 'Flamini and Mertersacker both as culpable' Theres a case to say Wenger gets asked more pointed questions than others though in my view. Its been that way since hes been in the UK.

  63. AA

    Oct 20, 2014, 14:16 #59800

    maguiresbridge gooner you are the old fraud not Arsene he is a great manager. How dare you talk about Arsene like that? He went 49 games undefeated how dare you call him a fraud?

  64. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 20, 2014, 14:06 #59799

    WeAreBuilding, no we didn't ship eight on Saturday but we know what it's like and how the Sunderland fans are feeling.

  65. Tony Evans

    Oct 20, 2014, 13:30 #59798

    Have been away from my keyboard last week but can think of nothing new to say anyway about the current state of affairs at Arsenal. My God another 2 or 3 years of this at least and who can rule out yet another contract extension for Wenger if he keeps the status quo?

  66. maguirsbridge gooner

    Oct 20, 2014, 13:26 #59797

    AMG 68032, spot on good shout yes it's about time someone had the bottle to pull old senile up well done jacqui you showed more balls than the blokes. Yes BADARSE your not being sexist are you? maybe an apology for jules in order.

  67. Question

    Oct 20, 2014, 13:24 #59796

    When the ball goes out of play or the ref stops play the clock should automatically stop that would stop all this timewasting by teams.Also managers should be allowed video replays of one call per half each.That would stop all this cheating and referee skullduggery.Until these things are sorted out the best teams wont win and deviants like Chelsea will continue to prosper.

  68. jeff wright

    Oct 20, 2014, 13:21 #59795

    That female journo asking old arrogant Arsene a few awkward questions has got his apologists, such as Badass and the nut job Jim all in a lather of self righteous indignation. How dare she a mere WOMAN ask Arsene the Commander of the British Empire a French Legion of Honor winner and holder of the French Institute For Rewriting History Greatest Manager In History award, if he was to blame for the 3 defeats and five draws so far suffered this season at all levels . Is the woman crazy ! How can Arsene be responsible for this. She obviously doesn't understand that Arsene is only responsible for the two games won in the league , at home against,er,Crystal Palace who had no manager at the time,and Aston Villa away . Wenger will have to add the woman to his ignore list we can't have this sort of nonsense going on when it is obvious to any sane person that Arsene is irreplaceable and no one could possibly do any better . You couldn't make it up.

  69. Hiccup

    Oct 20, 2014, 13:15 #59794

    It's quite clear as to why the AKB's are upset with the questions the reporter asked. They themselves are asked similar questions on here, and when unable to give a coherent answer do what wenger did, and go defensive. In fact wenger must have learnt his skills off this site with his 'when backed in a corner, talk sh!t and ramble nonsense' approach he used. I knew the AKB's would invent some new excuses now the old ones are flawed. Hull played anti football. The reporter didn't follow guidelines. Poyet wasn't grilled. We need more luck. Dortmund lost too... You guys crease me up. Never mind pantos, there's enough one-liners from you lot to write another Dads Army series.

  70. Exeter Gunner

    Oct 20, 2014, 13:02 #59793

    @ mg, why should he apologise? Civilisation would fall if everyone expected straightforward answers to straightforward questions from those in authority! And it's outrageous that other teams don't stand off and let our boys play. Wenger isn't paid the big bucks to meet these challenges, he's paid to realise his 'vision'. If only the other teams wouldn't keep trying to stop him!

  71. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 20, 2014, 12:54 #59792

    It looks like the old frauds arrogance is finally catching up with him at last, expect another grovelling apology shortly (probably in French) embarrassing.

  72. Hi Berry

    Oct 20, 2014, 12:51 #59791

    Jim - 63104 - It's called tactics.

  73. Mathew

    Oct 20, 2014, 12:24 #59790

    Wenger's World Cup effect still on ! lol

  74. AMG

    Oct 20, 2014, 12:11 #59789

    Jim, prior to Poyet, who was the manager of the last team to concede 8 in one game? Maybe £8m a year could come up with some different tactics to counter 10 men behind the ball? It's not really the problem though is it Jim, we're scoring the goals we need to win games, it's the lack of quality at the back that's costing us - Maybe that's why those pertinent questions were asked.

  75. Kerryman Gooner

    Oct 20, 2014, 12:10 #59788

    I don't know why everyone is so negative today. Arsenal official site says we have most possession and most dribbles this season. What more would you want ? And Diaby will be back soon. Tony Tadley is right. Its just tourists now. Fan Power is gone and the club is run to make a return on money invested. The fun of winning no longer matters. Its about the match day experience. Photos, souvenirs, beer and hot dogs. How I pine for Viera & Bergkamp.

  76. Jim

    Oct 20, 2014, 11:59 #59787

    Wenger was given a harder ride than the Sunderland manager who's team had just been beaten 8-0.Chelsea and City don't have to put up with ten man defences every week like we do.Tiddly totts and Palace both went for a win against those teams yet when anybody plays us it's sit deep hit them on the brake use gamesmanship and rotational fouling as the refs will just ignore it.

  77. AMG

    Oct 20, 2014, 11:48 #59786

    I agree with you BADARSE, I know better than to believe you a sexist, but I feel there is certainly an undertone with some people that they would raise less of an objection if it was a man asking the questions. If I was the manager of a football team that had put in that kind of performance, I would be the surliest and most objectionable sort for a few days after, that said, £8m a year might force me to be a bit more professional than dear Arsene was on Saturday. Wenger is a man on his last legs and it is sad to see, but it's only he who has let it come to this.

  78. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Oct 20, 2014, 11:36 #59785

    Well at least we didn't lose 8-0........but next week we face the team that did. Could be VERY interesting to see how OGL could explain away a lackadaisical performance in that game. As for Jim, keep up the postings, they are giving us all a good laugh, and we need that right now.

  79. Westlower

    Oct 20, 2014, 11:35 #59784

    @Hazrd By not calling Wenger a stupid, pathetic, senile old fool I am somehow keeping him in his job. Go figure that one! I guess I may be pathetic & stupid for traveling 150 miles for home games over a 54 year period but this senile old fool has no desire in joining any lynch mob that wants to undermine AFC.

  80. Ozzie

    Oct 20, 2014, 11:31 #59783

    ....Sounds like some people have all the fun whilst others look on in envy and regret.

  81. Stuat

    Oct 20, 2014, 11:29 #59782

    What is there left to say about Wenger that we haven't said a million times before? Nothing, nothing at all will ever change from the training and tactics to the identification and recruitment of players whilst he is at the club. The time to get rid of him has now passed way into the distance.

  82. BADARSE

    Oct 20, 2014, 11:25 #59781

    AMG you know me well enough then not to accuse me of being a sexist, in fact I challenge most females masquerading as feminists-I would give much less quarter. My reason for mentioning 'female' was because it was lifted from the report I read on the internet. I am all for challenging the status quo, generally it's the only way of enacting change. I don't doubt that AW should answer to the fans more, I have often said much irritates and irks me about his behaviour, but so did my Dad's ways, and I loved him like no other man. We are all human, even the Dark Moanies-only kidding-and we often feel like kicking over the traces and rebelling. Sometimes it's justified, sometimes not. Believe me, had my team just had a disappointing draw, and I felt a little let down by one or two performances, time wasting unpunished, denied by an outrageous decision by officials, and had to give an interview immediately after I would not be in the best frame of mind. Someone wanting a piece of me at that time would get a different reaction to an everyday reaction. We are all human, even Arsene Wenger, though he does show more of his humanities than most.

  83. GBP

    Oct 20, 2014, 11:24 #59780

    Hi Berry - I get where youre coming from too. The EC feel in the stadium is a bit removed from reality, but youre right in all that you say. The drive to corporatism has been well over done and leaves a bad taste for everybody. AFC have dragged themselves from an early 20th Century org to a modern commercial entity as they've had to do but i agree totally with you in saying that its been done with far too much zeal and at the expense of the lifeblood support of the Club. They will regret that at some stage i reckon when the TV cash cows udder dries up or the cow gets taken off for slaughter. Part of me wants that day to come soon as so these pampered over paid p----s of players get brought down to earth and the Clubs have to grovel back to their real fans, those that remain by then of course. If the big supermarkets in this rip off Country can be brought to heel by economic realities as they are being, then im sure a few greedy football Clubs like AFC can be too.

  84. GBP

    Oct 20, 2014, 11:08 #59779

    DW Thomas - Ha ha. Only just noticed the very last part of yr post 63074. That was funny. Keep it up buddy!!All good stuff. Be we fighting bitching ranting and raving at each other we re all Gunners at the days end.

  85. BADARSE

    Oct 20, 2014, 11:06 #59778

    Hello again Unchives, I know the film and saw it yonks ago-it was also a 'kick in the teeth' for those who have jumped on the bandwagon of decrying Roger Moore's acting talents. He does posses them! Thank you for such a courteous consideration to post so much. The film was a take on the immortal Robert Louis Stevenson's 'Jekyll and Hyde'. Interesting aside, first published in 1886-our club's birth date. One for jj Herman Hesse's 'Steppenwolf' is another variation, he would know what I am talking about. Here is another aside, we all have many facets which makes up the 'us'. I was channelled into the normal route to goal, my brother was very bohemian. He and jj could puff and talk, laugh and drift over the rooftops together, I would be earthbound running below like a little dog yapping at them, wanting to fly as well. My brother has been 'alternative' all his life, but made one or two compromises, I have been a relative 'straight' all my life but railed against those constraints. We are almost identical, but followed different paths. Each recognising the advantages/disadvantages in existence of each other. Remember Unchives, 'Never ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.'

  86. GBP

    Oct 20, 2014, 10:54 #59777

    DW Thomas - My take doesnt change mate. Im well aware of AWs failings and often agree with many of the negatives that you guys point out. I do defend him though against the excesses of the criticisms of him, but mainly i cant for the life of me see a CLEAR and BETTER path different to him at this moment in time. I agree we need change, but not just in his chair. As ive tried to say, the Club needs to re jig itself to suit change in the Coach's office. One change without the other will leave us standing still as i see it. Im also convinced that AW and the Board are actually working towards the change that the Club needs. I cant prove this of course, but their comments and behaviours (the Club and Wengers) suggest it to me as time passes. On the basis theyre doing that, then im happy to let the change evolve. Im probably the last person to be called a blind follower of AW just for the sake of it, its not my style at all. Ill say this too. If i do become convinced the Club aren't looking forward as i believe they are, ill be the first to shouting on here for the changes you guys seek. Mate. i really do think AW wont see much more than 18 months through of this last contract. Its a window dressing contract in my view. I like to look at all arguments and all positions DW. The black or white approach we see on here is wrong. The answer lies some where between the extremes that posters adopt on a daily basis. At the end of the day, we re not in crisis. Wenger and the Club have us in a position that not unhealthy. Credit to them for that. We have the basis to evolve positively, unlike the situ that Manure dumped on Moyes. Its a question of whether the Club and Wenger take the opportunity. I think they are doing and will. This is where i differ from many of you.

  87. Unchives

    Oct 20, 2014, 10:48 #59776

    This is specially for you Badarse. “The Man who Haunted Himself” is a little known 1970 film starring Roger Moore. A Gem of a British movie. Indeed you see two sides of Roger Moore, not just the left & right eyebrow so to speak. He plays two parts, the role of an old fashioned city business man called Harold Pelham, rigid in his ideas and beliefs, drives the same old fashioned car, grey suit, stiff collar, traditional values, will not change for anyone or anything. After having a serious road accident and needs resuscitating after flat lining, two heart beats are detected on the monitor for a short period, however he recovers only to discover that someone appears to have been impersonating him but much more successfully. Does he have a doppelgänger? The Impersonator looks exactly like him, however his copy is open-minded and his persona is that of confidence and belief in everything he does. The smart car, the business acumen, the risk taking and the danger that comes with it, all that the other character wasn’t. Whilst Pelham frantically seems to be chasing shadows looking for this impostor, his sanity reaches breaking point. Having to go through a psychological reality check, his psychiatrist convinces him that he has to make attitude & lifestyle changes, as it seems the impact of the accident was the likely cause of his paranoia. When Pelham eventually catches up with his doppelgänger, his sanity has reached breaking point to such a degree that he doubts everything and everyone, however by this stage; even his wife is convinced that the doppelgänger is the real deal. Here is the clincher, Pelham asks the doppelgänger at the end of the movie “Who are you?” he replies, “I AM YOU!…..you died on that operating table and let me out” Reminds you of anyone? The real Arsene Wenger died after 2005……..how does the film end? You will have to buy the DVD if you want to find out…. after all you have to still pay for the product even if you know the ending.

  88. BADARSE

    Oct 20, 2014, 10:23 #59775

    Morning radfordkennedy nice to connect buddy, hope you are well, and ta for the compliment. As for you Unchives and Bard, you are funny fellows. Pot later enjoy your bitter lemons, ha ha. Stick with it 24601, we are together. Have digs people, but be respectful...even to maguiresbridge, only kidding buddy. Good old Arsenal.

  89. Jim

    Oct 20, 2014, 10:16 #59774

    Why was she even giving an interview anyway.Seems very awkward for older men to be interviewed by young girls,as it seems like they can't be themselves.Better for this girl be giving interviews with the Arsenal ladies captain or another sport like netball or hockey. Wenger obviously thought just another self righteous oik from the school of AAA.

  90. radfordkennedy

    Oct 20, 2014, 10:04 #59773

    BADARSE....morning mate,didnt have time yesterday to say your 'state of the union'style post at the top of this thread absolutely nailed it,a brilliant post.On the subject of the Interview,to be honest i think the football media can smell blood and will be right in his face for the foreseeable,sky need to take attention away from united,and the BBC will want to be first with the breaking news on screen ticker tape.Looking forward to the next CL game as there's a certain something about Arsenal v Anderlecht....and yes indeed Frank Coopers Oxford Cut...proper job!!

  91. Hazard

    Oct 20, 2014, 9:49 #59772

    Westlower - I have no respect for AKB's like you. You are the reason Wenger is still here. You are destroying this club by your stupidity in supporting the fraud.

  92. Miles F

    Oct 20, 2014, 9:36 #59771

    This manager has become a complete embarrassment to the fans. (I don't say to the club because the club, ie the board, don't care about the football as long as money comes in.) First, the way his team play shows that he is totally bereft of ideas and tactical nous. Then he loses his cool and assaults another manager. Now he childishly refuses to answer very pertinent questions in a post-match interview and tries to intimidate the interviewer because he knows he has no good answer to the questions. Well done Gary Lineker for your truthful tweet. Our performance on Saturday was pisspoor. Alexis and young Bellerin apart, the starting eleven were dismal, the lack of any considered approach to dismantling a mediocre team (even when 1-0 up within 15 minutes) was really shocking. I'm afraid nothing will change until we fail to qualify for Champions League, but thankfully (yes, it has come to that) it is going to happen this season. There is no way that this team will finish ahead of Liverpool or ManYoo and Everton and even you know who, and at this rate we wont be fifth or sixth either. For those who cannot or wont wait for that disaster, the only option is to hit the club hard where it hurts them and embarrass them: stay away from the ground and spend nothing on programmes, refreshments, club shop, etc. I reckon the annual income from programmes, assuming one third of people attending buys one, is something like the extra £3m that we were forced to pay this season to fund Kronke's raid on the club. Time for some fan power to show the clowns on the board whose club this really is.

  93. Westlower

    Oct 20, 2014, 9:28 #59770

    @Hazard, Thankfully I'm not any of the things you label me as, being neither pathetic, stupid or a clown. Your words do not distress me, if that is your intention, but be careful to whom you address such insults. Changes in the law are afoot to prevent people from being abused online by cowards & bullies. Think before you post as you may offend the next victim with your rudeness. If you truly believe in what you're posting use your real name so we all know who you are. Get some perspective into your life. We all enjoy our digs at each other but be careful not to cross the line labelled RESPECT. If Arsenal drawing a game of football can spark you off you in such a manner how will you cope with a real life problem? We didn't lose 8-0, we haven't lost 5 games so far this season, we drew 2-2. Perspective, perspective, perspective!

  94. Unchives

    Oct 20, 2014, 9:04 #59769

    @Badarse, I'm sure you are a fantastic fellow, after all your a gooner, however did Muirinho follow protocol when he insulted Wenger in his interviews. Did Kevin Keegan follow protocol when he went into his tirade against Fergie when managing Newcastle. Leave planet Zog right now. As for the Cat...ive got one for you to adopt and it likes Marmalade, it likes the bitter taste, its called Ivan....it wants more and more food....don't keep feeding it....it will get fat, lazy and complacent.

  95. Bard

    Oct 20, 2014, 8:44 #59768

    Some incisive and very funny posts. I watched the interview and I must say i was shocked by her audacity and lack of respect. Did she not realise she was in the presence of greatness. Surely all those 4th place finishes give him the right to waffle on and avoid giving clear answers to obvious questions. I think lack of respect is a major problem in todays society. When I were a lad you got birched for asking the time of day. it was disgraceful. she should have got down on her knees and swallowed all his guff!!! Baddie the content and frequency of your posts suggests that you need to adjust your medication a tad. You never know you might begin to see the light.

  96. BADARSE

    Oct 20, 2014, 8:31 #59767

    Heroically put unchives. Possibly as you seem to like to gripe quite a bit, it's my guess that the inopportune questioning unchecked, would lead to many circumstances that would annoy you, leading to much whining and complaining. You would achieve nothing with that, but it would perhaps be what you are after. Incidentally, no animals in my house least of all cats, particularly fat ones, and I still have a great set of 'Hampsteads', it's my winning smile which impresses. Oh yes, don't eat jam, like radfordkennedy I prefer the thickest cut, most bitter marmalade-a bit like some of those I exchange posts with on here.

  97. WombledIn

    Oct 20, 2014, 8:28 #59766

    What you lot moaning about? Were having a diabolical run of injuries and are only 2 points of our trophy winning spot of 4th place and are current Fark All Cup holders. No wonder Stan and chips love Wonga and he has a job for life.

  98. AMG

    Oct 20, 2014, 8:26 #59765

    Not with BADARSE on his last post. A 'female journalist', didn't take you for the sexist type. What's wrong with journalists asking searching questions? It's about time people stopped pussyfooting around Wenger and started calling him on his blatant BS. When Paxman destroys a Tommy Robinson or a Nigel Farage, we all celebrate. When one 'female journalist' asks Arsene a few direct questions, you come out in a fit of self righteousness.

  99. Unchives

    Oct 20, 2014, 8:23 #59764

    @Badarse, its because we all follow protocol that we cant move on and up with this club. Ferguson insisted on it and got away with it because he won trophies throughout his reign. Kick the fat cat off your sofa, stick your false teeth in an old jam near the TV whilst Arsenal are playing, and compare which one has more fizz....I know which one will come up cleaner....now where is that fat cat? have I fed him or not?.....I cant remember...Arsene where are you Arsene.

  100. AMG

    Oct 20, 2014, 8:14 #59763

    I'm with BADARSE on the subject of TV money. If you're going to give up going to the games to watch it on the sofa, get yourself some dodgy foreign satellite, don't give your money to that scum Murdoch, Id' rather Kroenke had it, and that's saying something!

  101. BADARSE

    Oct 20, 2014, 7:57 #59762

    You forget yourselves, 'Arsenal fans'! A female journalist arrives at a football stadium, naively ignores protocol, and asks a question inappropriate to the circumstances, and you want to lionise her. Nothing surprises me. You do not do this, you follow the guidelines, it is no wonder the manager was irked, I would be too-a time and a place gentlefolk. No other person in prominence would be grilled like this. Yet you want to tear up the unwritten rule book, just because it suits your agenda. I would have loved to face the B-liar and George w. over Iraq, but had I tried to speak I would have been turfed from the room. For goodness sake get some perspective. People have striven hard to attain a level of understanding and diplomacy, which equates with civilisation, and you want to demolish that for the sake of a vacuous interview, to give you a laugh. No other manager faces such a hostile situation, or ever has. Think on, your 'Wenger Out' propagandist motives belittle all of you.

  102. Unchives

    Oct 20, 2014, 7:43 #59761

    "They think its all over....it is now!" Lets hope we get a decent FA cup draw and a donkey team in the final.Congratulations to all the fans that attended, aided & abetted this regime on Saturday. Someone please hand me a prawn sandwich and give one to the senile old man on the bench, he needs the energy. Over & Out!

  103. Declan Burke

    Oct 20, 2014, 7:09 #59760

    Tony Tadley is absolutely spot on re: Cloughie. I often recall George Graham using the phrase.... ''No individual is bigger than the club''...The lack of balls at boardroom level is crucifying this club. Wenger has got to be removed.

  104. ZeeNut

    Oct 20, 2014, 6:30 #59759

    Arsene's biggest mistake this season has happened well before the season started - in passing up Cesc Fabregas. Being a Chelsea fan, i'm not complaining - for the first time since M. City became a force, i feel we have a fantastic chance to win the EPL - Fab & Costa have given us 2 vital cogs in the wheel. But i can well imagine what you guys feel at Arsene's decision, given that most of you disagreed (correctly imho) with the decision to pass him up .

  105. Hi Berry

    Oct 20, 2014, 6:14 #59758

    GBP - I totally get where you are coming from....history may well look back on all those calling for Wenger's head and change in the Boardroom as being short-sighted and too impatient, but I can't help feeling that the club as we knew it even as recently as twenty years ago has now been transformed into a media/entertainment business via stealth and spin. As I can testify from one of my rare affordable visits to the Emirates for the pre-season ECup the fans seated around me were predominantly well-heeled and middle class with an infuriating woman behind me who talked all the way through both games and jarringly joined in singing in a cut diamond accent...just didn't seem right. From the sound of it she attended quite regularly and of course she has every right to pay her money and do so, but that afternoon demonstrated to me just how far the club has moved away from the honest endeavour (and mostly failure) of the club of our boyhood and youth. Like you I am beginning to think ranting and raving on these websites is ultimately futile other than to let off steam. Decisions have been made at corporate level to steer the club/business into a highly profitable future which is great for the longevity of the club but rather short-changes the poor saps shovelling money into the business model in the hope that 'competing with the best in Europe' actually comes to pass. I Get more enjoyment these days watching Championship football where the competitive level seems to be keener and more honest and teams like Watford and Reading can make a decent fist of paying a fleeting visit to the Promised Land. However, given my advancing years my biggest joy is watching my nine year old daughter (unlikely, but true) climbing through the ranks of junior football to be selected for our nearest Centre of Excellence team where honest endeavour is something to be cherished. We play Arsenal in a couple of weeks but no doubt as to who I'll be cheering on.

  106. DW Thomas

    Oct 20, 2014, 0:33 #59757

    GBP I actually read your posts and lately I see a change in your typical mantra of defending Inpector Clueless. Football for me is an escape from my duties in life, to enjoy and savor. I still play as well and our team typically wins our league. Today we played the next best team with no subs and lost. Still I enjoy the competition, to measure myself against the next guy. The lads I play with are all my age with young kids that take up oodles of our time. Getting to play on a Sunday is some much needed time to myself. My older boy now plays, but to be honest he isn't that interested, which doesn't really bother me. I do expect him to play hard and have fun at the same time. Generally in my life I don't tolerate bs in any form and call it out when I see it. That is where my frustration comes from with the club. Always promising jam tomorrow and speaking out of both sides of their mouths, all of them. They're spin magicians, bent on cash, not glory. When sport loses its luster, for me it turns boring and stagnant. That's all. I truly do respect those that have in the past supported Arsene, yet, now, and maybe for a few years, he is holding the team back. For all the reasons stated again and again. Even our play has become boring and lackluster. In my eyes I just see more potential than many. Maybe that's my optimistic side. We have the stadium, fan base, and money now. As well as a substantial team missing only a few key players. How can you, any Arsenal fan not expect more? Arsene, even for me, one of his biggest critics now, almost got there in 2008, 2010, and last year. But his failure due to arrogance and unwillingness to buy the needed players to fill gaps and replace those who left is unfendable. Something is very wrong at the club and has been for a long time. Now off to shag the wife!

  107. AMG

    Oct 20, 2014, 0:23 #59756

    Good report Kevin. Just another illustration of why Wenger should have retired at the end of last season...

  108. Kaba Diawara

    Oct 20, 2014, 0:23 #59755

    The Club will ban J.Oatley from the stadium after this interview. ha ha ha

  109. GBP

    Oct 20, 2014, 0:13 #59754

    DW Thomo - Good grief. I think football must be your prop to life itself chap. Get over yself. Get yself laid or some thing.

  110. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 20, 2014, 0:04 #59753

    jj, yes maybe the dark side of the moon is becoming a lot brighter to some.

  111. Old Timer

    Oct 19, 2014, 23:52 #59752

    I knew it wasn't going to end well yesterday when we came out of the blocks like a steam train yesterday. Most frustrating thing this season has been the way we cancel out our own brilliant goals by conceding eminently avoidable goals - Man City was the worst example but yesterday was in the same vein.AW's got a lot of criticism for his failure to recruit properly but the greater failure has been in motivating and organising the potentially fine players we put out on the pitch. Sunderland up next should be interesting.

  112. mauiresbridge gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 23:46 #59751

    DWT, yes Sanchez does look the biz but as you say it will soon be coached out of him.

  113. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 23:25 #59750

    Big Dave, more like what's he allowed to do.

  114. Jim

    Oct 19, 2014, 23:16 #59749

    All this time wasting and playing injured all the while really annoys me.Crap teams like Palace,Spuds and Hull worst offenders,should have more pro-active ball boys with new balls at the ready,and the crowd should abuse the opposition players more and hurl missiles at them as well to stop them cheating.Why should Wenger have to answer those ridiculous questions no other manager can answer anyway,football is a game based on situations,one of decisions and luck.No manager can answer those questions it's all sorted out in house.The wob intriguers will have to just put up with their made up nonsense and keep their noses out of business they have no right to pry into.

  115. DW Thomas

    Oct 19, 2014, 23:06 #59748

    As usual GBP, you turn off your love of your hero as all around you is failure. Where is your undying support for Wenger now? You remind me of a politician always changing their views tofit to the general public attitude. Its fans like you that keep our club in nowhereland. Expect more from life, you might like it! This club spends more on wages than Chelsea, but we're just poor old little Arsenal. Ask only for sausages the club is happy to provide!

  116. maguiresbridgr gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 22:26 #59747

    Jim, you've forgot to mention that other teams don't have to go toe to toe with us anymore (and why should they just to keep OGL happy?)they just have to employ the proper tactics.

  117. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 22:20 #59746

    Baddie - pleased for him. Brilliant. A warm well done from me.

  118. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 22:05 #59745

    Martyn, yes Pep was and has been mentioned many many times as a replacement to our clown but some other team will snap him up and all we'll hear from the AKB's is who is available and who is there who could replace OGL and do such a good job. You couldn't make it up.

  119. KC

    Oct 19, 2014, 21:57 #59744

    @Nick T - Great post, the rise and fall of a once great manager!

  120. BADARSE

    Oct 19, 2014, 21:53 #59743

    Ha ha GBP, on that note I am signing off for the night. A good day today, Charlie our grandson skippered his team to a 7-1 win and was voted MotM.

  121. Ray

    Oct 19, 2014, 21:50 #59742

    Only 2 years 8 months to go

  122. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 21:49 #59741

    Evening Baddie - a great man mate. To be so humble and to rise as he did in the way he did it is inspiring. Im reckoning his genius was knowing when to declare his position and act forcibly and knowing when to keep stum and just do nothing until he felt people were ready? He did it despite Chase and a few others systematically knifing him at every turn and his other rivals all thinking he was a bumpkin didnt he, until they revered him in the end. Its a great lesson in how to perceive others angled against him yet using their strengths to back him. Im reckoning a few football Managers must be as lonely in many Clubs as he was in his Cabinet so maybe he d a made a good fist of managing say Man Utd? Not sure he d have bought Fellaini though!

  123. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 21:33 #59740

    Mike Mesut, nice one, no doubt we'd have beaten them 5-0 but maybe wally can take his place or better still diaby.

  124. BADARSE

    Oct 19, 2014, 21:27 #59739

    Evening GBP, I think possibly one of the most definitive books on Lincoln was one I read, by Gore Vidal, perhaps the cleverest American ever. Lincoln was an interesting man, at an interesting period in the history of the USA, don't you think? Good job he never took up football management though.

  125. 1971 Gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 21:21 #59738

    I had the pleasure of watching Barcelona play live on Saturday night, for €47 which is less than 40 quid. To compare our style of possession football to Barca is absolute cobblers, every pass Barca make has a purpose, we pass it around for??? Not bothered about Hull, stopped getting fed up with poor results a while back. We as a club are going downhill fast and that is sad. I love the club but not this team, it's very average and boring to watch.

  126. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 21:19 #59737

    KC - Know what yr saying. Im just reckoning RB is a possible and say this as part of my 'thesis' set out above ha. Hes not a solution, hes a step toward it possibly, thats all im saying. Jeff - Arse have the frame to be a Munich possibly but i reckon we re quite a few years behind it. PS Bud i saw the Villa Munich Final in 82. Great 3 day trip with 7 mad Villans. They were a good side Villa Withe Shaw Bremner Mortimer Gibson Evans et all and never fully recognized though they were lucky in the Final a bit. Different times though Jeff. JJ - You old git. I love American history. Just reading a good book about Abe L.

  127. BADARSE

    Oct 19, 2014, 21:10 #59736

    So what's that then?-It's an AFC Board meeting.-Yeah, they look bored.-No not bored, board. Like a wooden board.-Well they look like planks.-That's hardly fair, they have many difficult things to discuss and decide upon.-What, like whether they have Jammy Dodgers or Hobnobs with their tea?-Well that too.-Who's that one with the wig?-That's Stan the majority shareholder.-My Mum said never trust a man with a wig.-Your Dad wore a wig, didn't he?-Yeah that's right.-So she was right then.-Who's that one, that's always smiling then?-That's his son Josh.-Hang on, your having a laugh. Josh, that means to josh or joke, and he's always laughing, why is that?-Well his Dad Stan virtually runs the club and has just got him on the board.-That's why he's smiling then.-I suppose so.-OK, who's he, the silly looking one?-Sir Chips.-Get out of it. Now you're pulling my leg, Sir Chips, ha ha, I suppose he's married to Lady Fish?-I don't think so.-Well no wonder they are in a muddle, they're just mucking about.-Seems that way.-No, hold on, they've decided...it's Hobnobs!

  128. KC

    Oct 19, 2014, 21:00 #59735

    GBP You are wrong to not think we are or can be that big, we pay top dollar to our present manager and massive wages. With the right man in charge we have an enourmous potential. But RB, please no! did you not see the crap he bought at Liverpool.? And please do not mention Torres look at his signings overall.

  129. Nick T

    Oct 19, 2014, 20:42 #59734

    All the faults have been highlighted many times but underpinning it all for me is the psychology of both Wenger and the Board. Wenger seems like an addict who simply can't let go, alongside that you have a board with no individual willing to step forward and give him a polite tap on the shoulder. The combination is a very unhealthy one that I can only see ending in tears. The justifed (IMO) criticsm the club and Wenger now receive is amplified because both had the perfect opportunity to part company this summer. We wont win the PL or CL again under Wenger of that Im sure, so 4th place and a trophy in the cabinet was as good as it will ever get to say goodbye. Whilst AW annoys the f*ck out of me these days, it genuinly saddens me that his exit will probably end acrimoniously. He has given the club so much and I don't doubt for a minute how much he loves the club....but thats probably a big part of the problem. I believe all his recent outbursts are due to his own internal fustrations and perhaps a personal realisation that he just hasn't got 'it' anymore. He's dodged the bullets before, no more so than the comeback against sp*rs in the first 5-2, but I'm not sure it will happen this time and I suspect Wenger may end up regretting signing his latest contract.....if he isn't already(?)

  130. jeff wright

    Oct 19, 2014, 20:36 #59733

    With all due respect GBP I don't think that we are,apart from having no European Cup on our CV,that some lesser English such as Villa and Forest and smaller Euro clubs have , that far away from the big boys in football as you claim. We certainly with the resources that we have should be doing better than struggling to beat a side like Brucies Hull in cup finals and at home in the Prem. Also Wenger's not been pulling up trees either in getting 4th place finishes for donkeys years.

  131. jjetplane

    Oct 19, 2014, 20:32 #59732

    Well GBP thought you might have turned a small corner there but now you are linking Arsene Wenger with the Manifest Destiny doctrine and the American Enlightenment project. Get a grip kiddo. It's just a two bob football club much like Chelski except our manager is rubbish and now it is out there. It isn't even sad as he has (like some decrepit bank CEO) been overpaid for his troubles. It would not suprise me to see a far better manager come in sooner than later and let's be honest - it ain't rocket science build ing a foundation to anything. Team or house. Wenger is all roof and it's time he went with it. here endeth the dreadful metaphor.

  132. Finsbury Joe

    Oct 19, 2014, 20:31 #59731

    GBP are you Ron?

  133. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 20:06 #59730

    Hi Hiccup - Enormous changes in the way that the Club has its constitution are needed before it can seek the best i reckon. Its really an outmoded set up now and still i suspect remains so to keep the door shut on Usminov. Its a Board thats hamstrung by its own protectionist tendencies and as such its decision making cant work.I cant see much changing in there until Kroenke decides its time to cash in and even then i suspect he ll try and do that to a buyer/s who will keep that door shut on the fat Uzbeck. Im not saying Usminov needs to be the new man, though he might be for all i know. im just saying that the Club as it is has little wiggle roomn to do much more than whats its doing. I think they will seek a cheaper model as you rightly say too, hence my firm view that as we are there will be no Peps or his like pitching up in N7. Wenger has many failings as you often say but in my view the constitution of the Club since lock down and stadium move has shaped his role there massively and its why all the ills we see on the pitch every week are only partially his fault. When Boardroom change comes, AW will go as i see it. I think theyve all agreed it already and Wenger knows hes keeping a seat warm. As a Club they do well to keep hanging in where they do, even though it leaves us lot exasperated. In many ways, AFC have had to do what theyve done warts and all to get where they have since 2005. The incumbents in the Boardroom and Wenger of course have been as much the pioneers doing the the journey to greater rewards as were the pioneers along the Oregan trail in the mid 1850s in the USA. Replete with errors and make do as they went along, a good few bodies lost on the way, a few turned back, fights and rows reigned supreme yet the riches came and the ultimate objectives did too. AFC will do the same but it will evolve. Thats what us fans have real problems with. We shout revolution not evolution as we only largely look at things through a very narrow prism, a football shaped one. In decades to come history will put this lot in a very bright light and what they've done will be understood when set against what will have been achieved by then. All this means a bit more of what we ve had im afraid unless the on pitch fortunes drop to catastrophic levels when a make do and mend appointment might have to occur. We shall see bud wont we.

  134. Hiccup

    Oct 19, 2014, 19:35 #59729

    Evening GBP. Surely we can attract the best managers in the world when we pay the highest manager salary going? Jose is not on £17m. However, I seriously see the board looking to cut the salary down on the next appointment. Just as England realised the pay Sven was getting (£5m) which I think was second only to wenger, they brought in McLaren without the cv to warrant that pay. I see the board following this route, and with this in mind, the expectations from the fans should fall in to line where 4th is acceptable. There'll be no more of this we expect better from the highest paid manager in football.

  135. Rocky RIP

    Oct 19, 2014, 19:31 #59728

    I've got no problem with Oatley asking questions we all want answered, it's refreshing. Although I can't recall another manager getting such a direct grilling. Does anyone ask good ole 'arry 'whose fault is it?' that his clubs get relegated and he leaves behind a financial wreck? It's never his fault. Or Ferguson. Interviewers were virtually quaking when they interviewed him as they dare not even infer he'd got anything wrong or they'd get banned. So while it's refreshing that an interviewer asks pertinent questions, can they grill others in the same way please?

  136. jjetplane

    Oct 19, 2014, 19:31 #59727

    What I have learnt this week is that perhaps Oatley should be brought into Arsenal and Wenger can go work with jug ears. She sounds no nonsense and that is what is needed and she is also much more pleasing on the eye than the old French bird. I reckon he probably fancies her now so it's a good time to side step him and grab the main seat. She seems to have the support of most gooners and saturday post match could be the beginning of a real game changer. She would be there in March (a point between us and Chelski) saying 'we have conceded one goal since xmas and Steve Bould has been brilliant with the defence. They know what they need to do now.' Cue camera with Wenger holding the mic while jug ears can be heard laughing in the studio.

  137. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 19:14 #59726

    Lord Froth, respect for OGL? for many it's long gone, and for a lot of others it's dwindling by the day.

  138. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 19:09 #59725

    DW Thomo - Yr heart always rules yr head. Pep Guardiola wont be joining Arsenal any time soon. End of. My point is that we need a top, tactically orientated Coach after AW.RB is an eg. Hes a man with a record everywhere too. The notion of PG going to the Arse is typical of some of you. Yr deluded into thinking Arsenal are some thing theyre not. PG in his entire career hasn't had to work with any number of real journeymen or lesser ranked footballers. Im not convinced that 1. He wd want too and 2. if he did, he would want several superstars around them. AFC arent going to provide them, be it Wenger there or whoever else. This is the rationale behind my Rafa point. I dont expect any unity on the point, esp from you, as you only ever prioritize whining over reason but whoever goes to AFC isnt going to be a contemporary top level marque Coach and he isnt going to be covered in surplus money either. Im sure you sit there at your keyboard, wiping tears of deep seated doldrums away about AFC not winning a football match as you type. Arsenal will have some rubbish results and bad days AFTER Wenger. A new Coach wont romp away with anything there anymore than will the man at Liverpool, Spurs and arguably even at Utd.Live with it. Change will come and its coming but i strongly suspect youre going to be one of them disappointing and first back on here screaming 'not good enough'. AFC are not a Club remotely close to the titan Clubs of Europe. Never have been and its highly likely they might never be.

  139. Gary Wright

    Oct 19, 2014, 18:54 #59724

    The arrogance of our club disgusts me. It's the perfect storm, a board who don't give a **** as long a the financial results are good, a manager who is at least 5 years past his sell by date and takes a hefty salary for delivering very little. As much as I hate to agree with Jug Ears, Wenger's response to the questions asked by that woman from the BBC was shocking. It had traits of "how dare you ask me such things!" Well get used to it sunshine - the majority of us feel the same way and the sooner you and that be wigged fool Kronke are gone the better it will be. I know we are stuck with arguably the worst manager in the Prem - but a figure like david dein could at least bring some sense back int the running of the club. yes I know he is minted, but I always felt he saw and understood things from the fans perspective - something which no one at the club now sees. I'm fed up with arguing with other supporters over Wenger -its killing the club - time to amputate the arm to save the body ....

  140. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 18:45 #59723

    Latest from arsenal after yesterday, the laundry lady has been sacked.

  141. Peter Wain

    Oct 19, 2014, 18:45 #59722

    another disappointing performance which shows the lack of real quality in key areas in the squad. Inadequate back up at centre half a lack of positional coaching in the full backs a lack of two 6ft plus defensive midfield players and a lack of pace out wide. Quite how the owner board and manager were not seriously challenged at the agm is beyond me. Wenger at all must be sacked

  142. DW Thomas

    Oct 19, 2014, 18:41 #59721

    Klopp, Pep, or Martinez. Any of those woul work for me. GBP? Benitez over Pep? You can't be serious? Comments like that and others by your partners in bollocks make me think you might be employees of Gadzidis! This club deserves so much more than a has been manager who can't even look half intelligent when questioned on how he lost to a Steve Bruce team at home!!! Kevin's Pep quote? Did you even read it? Basically that is the way great teams/players play. Creat space and then attack the space. But takes effort, organization, and a collective team brain. This club is miles from it. That's why they lost the CL final and have never made it back. As far as anyone defending Wenger now, that's just idiocy. He has been proven wrong time after time, again and again. In any sport it's about winning, it has to be. That's what gets the best out of athletes. Competition! Our tippy tappy lightweight team just isn't coached to have mettle or grit. They mirror the managers ego. They think their reputation from years ago will beat teams. What I wouldn't give for an Aguero or Tevez in our team. Even bring Jenkinson home. He'd be better than what we have now. At least he had heart!

  143. Exeter Gunner

    Oct 19, 2014, 18:36 #59720

    Good old Westlower. To be fair to him, his 'stance' on matters AFC - unconditional support for the Arsenal manager... because he is the Arsenal manager - means he's obliged to point the finger everywhere but at the man himself. Inevitably this is going to lead to daft excuses and deflections being made at times. Even Wenger's most obvious failings get turned into virtues - the humiliations are due our 'expansive, attacking football' and a man who's just signed a 3 year contract is 'saving the money for the next manager' were a couple of my favourites.

  144. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 18:33 #59719

    Whicever side of the fence anybody is on, the defending there yesterday was worse than the worst really. For years game before a CL game played by the Arse have been weak, half hearted and partially committed affairs. Yesterday seemed to stink like one from what bit i saw and the highlights of course. Im sure the 'hand brake' analogy originated from the these pre CL games? Either way, such games have never bore much fruit for the Club in the CL and it can only be that Wenger still even now, affords a prior motivation for that competition over the PL. This is the mystery as its not hard to deduce that the Club cant win the CL. OK, they cant win the Title either but if prioritizing does go on in such a blatant manner surely the PL games should take precedence? Having said this, performances like Merters shouldn't happen even in a lower priority game. Try as i have for so long to back the Manager, this conundrum has always baffled me.

  145. Hiccup

    Oct 19, 2014, 18:11 #59718

    Great points Westie. Maybe you should become wenger's chief press officer. While he was spluttering away with the bbc interviewer, had he replied to her that Dortmund had been beaten and we just need more luck like Liverpool, he would have come out of it looking like he knew what he was talking about.

  146. KC

    Oct 19, 2014, 18:02 #59717

    So you don't like football just writing about it Jim, what's your love model railways?

  147. Hazard

    Oct 19, 2014, 17:54 #59716

    Westlower - Its just shows what a clown Wenger is. Arsenal got annihalated by such a poor team. Wenger would get Dortmund relegated if he managed them. Nice try at defending your hero you stupid pathetic AKB. You and Wenger are both clowns.

  148. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 17:51 #59715

    Excellent piece on yahoo uk sport about the clown we have masquerading as a manager, and the accompanying photo says it all.

  149. Peter Mountford

    Oct 19, 2014, 17:45 #59714

    westie If you really think that a managerial run I;e Klopp losing 5 games means he is no good you must have blinkers red rum would of been proud of, aside from ignoring the game between our two teams the other week he has achieved amazing stuff over the past few years, especially when bayern nick his best players every year. ofcourse i forgot it's to hold rank and peddle the "be careful what you wish for " line. As for Jacqui Oatley, well I think most people would say they were reasonable questions not delivered in a particularly loaded way, I:e it sure weren't Jeremy paxman, wenger's reaction was ridiculous and petty, and shows him in poor light, this is aside from personal viewpoints, I'm against wenger but believe in rational well thought out debate on both sides if i can find it. I, personally, can't see how anyone can fail to see that wenger needs to be given more interviews like this and asked awkward questions when warranted , unless they are on a river in Egypt ofcourse

  150. Peter Mountford

    Oct 19, 2014, 17:32 #59713

    Blimey! when you see comments like those from Jim you realise that sometime lobotomy at birth is kinder

  151. BADARSE

    Oct 19, 2014, 17:23 #59712

    Aye, aye, Cap'n 24601. Land ahoy, sir. We shall travel the briny together.Yo-ho-ho and a bottle of rum-sey. Our ship will be coming in sir, Calum Weds and next week. Others due back soon, Theo, Serge, and the moanies favourite, Arteta, ha ha. Cap'n sir, it's past five bells, can I come down from the crow's nest-I have to take 'chapel' at seven bells, I think some of the crew have had that knocked out of them, or their suicidal approach suggests that. Look out is that Moby Dick? Oh no it's radfordkennedy paddling his own canoe. By the way, is it fish fingers for tea again?

  152. Westlower

    Oct 19, 2014, 17:20 #59711

    Borussia Dortmund slipped to their 5th defeat of the season yesterday. Herr Klopp anyone? He got lucky though as Jacqui Oatley didn't do the post match interview. Talking of luck, we could do with a slice of luck that Liverpool enjoyed today.

  153. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 17:14 #59710

    Two points dropped? against the mighty hull? surely it's a credible point with plenty of positives, lets celebrate that's if there's any room at the celebrations or booze left.

  154. Jim

    Oct 19, 2014, 17:09 #59709

    Jaqui Oatley is just another twit from the modern error who has been brought up with 'If it's not going how I like! who can I blame'mentality'.The Wenger knockers love to catch on to what they can because they too are normally weak people who love to have their own way.Too much always the victim mentality for my liking.If you think you can do better get in shape yourself lose the beer belly stop being a voyeur who only watches sport and participate yourself.There's something about 60,000 people watching 22 men running around in shorts and making it their main attention in life that seems a bit sad to me.

  155. KC

    Oct 19, 2014, 17:06 #59708

    @Bard, yes totally agree about Wengers mindset, he lost TV, Jenkinson and Sagna replaced with Chambers and Debuchy and knew Kos had a problem, it's almost madness it's so strange that you would think he is losing all touch with reality. The big issue also does concern Bould are we watching a man sit and take the money because I can not believe he does not have an opinion on what is wrong.

  156. jeff wright

    Oct 19, 2014, 17:00 #59707

    lee, ur havin' a laf surely, we needed another couple of defenders not Plod who can't defend . I agree though that Wenger is struggling to beat Hull now days even with a one goal lead he couldn't manage it at home and needed extra time and 3 goals to do so in the cup final .He needed injury time to nick a point yesterday - having better defenders and a midfield that can shut up shop by closing the game down instead of running out of puff going gung-ho for goals for 90 minutes would improve things .To get to this situation though we need not Plod,but a new manager.

  157. John F

    Oct 19, 2014, 16:52 #59706

    At last an interviewer who puts the right questions to Mr Wenger.Jaqui Oatley puts her male colleagues to shame.His responses showed what an arrogant man he has become.Wenger,Wenger,Wenger,out ,out,out.

  158. Th14afc

    Oct 19, 2014, 16:42 #59705

    Jeff- of course 2 goals against hull aren't enough or we'd hav won... I agree 2 goals shud b enough against the likes of hull but on days like yesterday when we clearly need something else we shud at least hav a striker as a sub if they are fit....I'm not a big fan of pod either but in the rare events that he gets a goal it does tend to b against teams if similar ilk to hull so we shud hav had him in the squad

  159. jjetplane

    Oct 19, 2014, 16:16 #59704

    Poor old WESTIE spent all these years on the wrong ship but as you say - your interest is nags and dog meat. Not football unless your regurgitating high street betspeak is the real deal. Maybe Wenger likes a crafty bet. Sure a few officials think of him affectionately as the old nag in a bag ... Still got the glory of the CL - everyone will be glued to that. WILlARD you could not make it up.

  160. Westlower

    Oct 19, 2014, 16:06 #59703

    @JJ, Surprised to hear from you, as rumour had it you'd drowned at sea after jumping ship? My light is always on. You have to be involved with racehorses & greyhounds to understand true despair. We've still only lost at the Bridge, as will everybody else, and we'll get stronger when the injured players return. Start paddling ratty as I can see land ahoy! Hope springs eternal on the good ship AFC.

  161. jeff wright

    Oct 19, 2014, 16:01 #59702

    So 2 goals scored against a modest side such as Hull at home are not enough according to Lee KFC,aka THh14 AFC ,Melvin and the Chipmunks and assorted names... to win us the game, we needed to score more ! Why did we need another striker? Especially the slow can't get back to defend Plodolski,when defending our one goal lead was the real problem. The problem being Plods fellow 'World Cup winner' the BFG plodding Per .But hey why let the truth get in the way of a good excuse! Some mums do 'ave 'em . You really couldn't make it up .

  162. jjetplane

    Oct 19, 2014, 15:35 #59701

    Well well bloody well. Gone are the 'knee jerking' swipes and the talk of 'bleaters and moaners' and we are left with a 'football manager' who knows nothing about football. I imagine he was considered a curiosity in football even when he was working elsewhere. Now we see the errors of our ways having kept faith with an intrusive element that are busy asset stripping the club while spewing a corporate mantra of 'mental strength and spirit' - the kind of **** you find on bargain basement DVD's delivered by guys called Tony. Arsene Knows. What? Nice posts GBP and you are sounding a bit like RON in some of your appraisals. Not a bad thing. Nice stuff too DEEJAY but of course the usual poster has to have a say on that. As predictable as a home draw. And WESTIE - it's all over mate. How dark is your room now!

  163. Dan h

    Oct 19, 2014, 14:59 #59700

    Th14afc,Podolski is 100% fit not picked in the squad speaking about not being picked wouldn't of helped of course.Gave up years ago wondering why AW makes the decisions he does.Think the most logical i.e buy a £42m no.10 and play him out of position.Glaring gaps in the squad and look to 'internal solution's'etc you get his way of thinking,downright bizarre.

  164. Angry & Frustrated

    Oct 19, 2014, 14:42 #59699

    About bloody time someone had the balls to ask Wenger some searching pertinent questions. Ironic it was done by somebody who biologically doesn't possess any!! Well done Jacqui keep up the good work, as I am sick and tired of the press not challenging Wenger directly and quoting back his very own contradictions from his answers. He looked ruffled by that interview, because he is not use to being asked direct searching questions. He clearly believes its the interviewees privilege to be asking him questions in the first place and therefore they should only be tame or agreeing with his spin answers. More please if you are by chance reading this Jacqui, because you are onto something that no other journalist seems prepared to do.

  165. Th14afc

    Oct 19, 2014, 14:39 #59698

    Does anyone know why podolski wasn't even on the bench?is he injured or did wenger drop him as he was annoyed about podolski's recent comments making it clear he wants out?...shame as it's the kind if game where he does sometimes come up with the goals,at the emirates against a smaller team,shud hav at least had him on the bench if he's fit

  166. Bard

    Oct 19, 2014, 14:38 #59697

    Cant disagree with anything youve said Kev. I only managed to watch it on TV in spanish. The commentator kept saying muy mal which means very bad. Dismal watching. Sadly I dont think anything will happen whatever happens in the league, the board already have the ready made excuse that we have a crippling injury list. What interests me is how odd Wengers decisions have become. He has always had a bizarre streak, think Squillaci, Cygan Park but buying Kallstrom the last Jan window raised the bar in terms of the weird. I get that its difficult to buy world class defenders but Kos had a dodgy achilles during the World Cup so he knew then he wouldnt make it through a whole campaign. What does he do nothing. It beggars belief and whichever way you spin it its incompetence of the highest order, maybe forgiveable from a new and inexperienced league 2 manager but for someone with his experience and purporting to win the league its madness.It like he shoots himself in the foot before every season starts. Here we are at the back end of Oct and the seasons over in terms of winning the PL. By the time he has the chance to rectify matters in the jan window it will be too late and every man and his dog will be able to hold us ransom.

  167. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 14:28 #59696

    SKG - I read that report. It was good. It was actually old news in principle though. There are people in one AFC supporter Club whove worked together and do Madrid games and have done it for 5-6 years in fact. All are season ticketers at AFC and use of their tickets has been to anybody that wants them for most of that time, inc away fans if they want them. Many away fans do take them up as theyre take on the Emirates is that sitting with the home support isnt at all uncomfortable in the main esp with seats in the top tiers.Just that speaks volumes of where our support is. On one hand, its good that the visitor Clubs fans feel they can risk it as AFC fans dont kick up too much of a fuss but i suspect that still involves the away fan keeping quiet in the main, subject to who they sit by. On the other hand, it explains why the atmosphere there is so tepid.

  168. DW Thomas

    Oct 19, 2014, 14:22 #59695

    This team is like a boat with many leaks. We fix the small ones that make it look good, but leave the gaping hole with water pouring unfixed. A defense. That second goal was a repeat of many in the past. Wilshere jogged out not defending the cross, then Per looked liked he had lead boots on. Terrible. Sanchez does look a player because of his skill and will to win. No one else has it with any maturity. Ramsey has been poor. Why? Wenger destroys players and only a major change will fix things. Wenger's ego runs the club. His post match interview was that of an old man bereft of ideas and seemingly lost. Sad, very sad, but it is his own making. The club I love is now a boring cash cow that spins and spouts bs to lure mug fans. We've all heard EVERY excuse and they're all ruses. Solidify the squad with big Jan buys or this season will surely see us fall out of the top 4!

  169. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 14:20 #59694

    No title challenge? (was there ever going to be?)and the main reason and only reason for that is this old embarrassment we have bumbling about impersonating a football manager.

  170. Andy B

    Oct 19, 2014, 14:14 #59693

    Wasn't the reason for moving away from Highbury so we could compete with the best teams in Europe ? Granted, we didn't expect the foreign invasion of mega rich owners taking over and investing considerably more into their teams that was being generated by the club i.e Chelsea and Man City. However, taking these two out the equation we're struggling to compete with the others and I can honestly see us finishing 6th this year. With our resources this would be an absolute disgrace. I don't expect us to win something every year but please, please look as if we have a chance. This is a fault of Wwnger and the club. I'd keep Wenger and move him upstairs to keep the vision of growing the clubs from the grass roots etc and keeping the business side healthy but please let a more modern, knowledgable, less stubborn man take over.

  171. Big Dave

    Oct 19, 2014, 14:13 #59692

    Can somebody please tell what does Steve Bould do, I mean really does he do anything with the team

  172. Seven Kings Gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 14:11 #59691

    GBP : I knew things were not good but your post does explain clearly what happens to a club when a big chunk of the fans are attending for reasons other than football. There was a piece on TV last week about fans from England travelling to watch Dortmund - seems to be a great day out and costs less than watching a PL game at home!

  173. KC

    Oct 19, 2014, 14:06 #59690

    What's so difficult to accept is Wengers ability to learn nothing and make the same mistakes over and over, squad strength, we get injuries Arsene, defending, set pieces, the importance of key players in key positions, on goalkeepers and central defenders he has always had a blind spot but that's now pushed onto holding midfielders, it's almost as the years go by he is getting more and more removed from the fact that you have to stop teams as well it's crazy!

  174. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 13:59 #59689

    Words Words Words complete bullshyte like everything else that comes out of that old frauds mouth.

  175. Torbay gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 13:55 #59688

    Thanks Westlower, I think it's 13 for a 38 game season in 90/91, although we only lost one game then. Happy to take a repeat of that, but somehow unlikely and I'm sure optimistic as you are you will agree!!

  176. jjetplane

    Oct 19, 2014, 13:52 #59687

    Interesting that 5 live now have fans phoning up saying they want Wenger to go. This has really only started this week but also noticed with the Ozil exchange that the spotlight is firmly on a noticeably weakened manager. Weird how Amy Lawrence is just bringing out her Invincible book a decade on, imagining she did not think she would be published just when the whole Wenger philosophy machine seems to be choking once it starts up. Witness Sanchez scoring a proper football goal and the team going back to a default of pass hope pass hope with no effective strategy. Remember watching the 'BFG' (if anyone ever believed their own publicity) after the Chelsea game in a voice devoid of passion and imagine Maureen privately thinking is that all they have in their tank? Now the subject with Jenkinson the Hammer is on the radar. Would he be having such a good season under such questionable management. Worrying also that the Ox had a bummer but hardly suprising for a player who is not correctly used or valued by a coach who does ecomomics first and football second. If he does have long chats with Stan i can hardly imagine football being the central narrative. Good post at the top there BADDIE and much respect. A most impressive piece Kevin and three years just may be looking like a life sentence pretty soon. Think for his own good, Wenger needs a new day job. Surely he is happier working with the media and money is no problem .....

  177. still hoping

    Oct 19, 2014, 13:46 #59686

    I still think we look the best team in this overrated league and still think the title's ours for the taking.

  178. 2004 never again

    Oct 19, 2014, 13:45 #59685

    Last season we were in the title race till February but faltered to just about get 4th place.This sesason we are out of the title race in October.Get ready for the 4th is a trophy quotes from Wenger and Gazidis.This season will just peter out to nothing.Wenger says Hull only had two shots on target well thats two more than we had a Chelsea!!! Finally well done Jacqui Oatley who put Wenger on the spot in the post match interview.Makes a change from all the male journalists who tickle Wengers tummy.This friday is the 10 year anniversary of the end of the 49 game run and the beginning of the end for Wenger

  179. Angry & Frustrated

    Oct 19, 2014, 13:26 #59684

    @GBP I Googled Mourinho salary and a couple of sites states he is on £8.5 million at Chelsea. So only fractionally more than our supposed socialist leader (Everybody should be equal to help create team spirit, except some are more equal than others!!!) who is on £8 million. If both salaries are accurate (I know that's a big if)then who is getting better value for money? Also I think Klopp would come to England for less than either of Wenger or Mourinho simply because he is currently earning £3.6 million (same Google search) in Germany!

  180. Westlower

    Oct 19, 2014, 13:10 #59683

    @Torbay Gooner, The most draws I can find is 17 (93/94); 18 (69/70); 16 (35/36). All were 42 game seasons. The good news is our fortunes took a dramatic rise after the 69/70 season.

  181. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 13:08 #59682

    A and F - recall that figure being spoken of at the time he came back mate. Probably say on Google. Klopp - Yes maybe, but he would want a slice of the PL greed and frenzy feed fest (why wouldnt he) if he came over here away from the more conservative cash climes of Ger football which actually only exists due to the German Govt rules and extra pressures and arm twists they put on the Clubs. Im betting he would want 10 to 15 Million if he came here.

  182. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 12:57 #59681

    SKG - a lot of those season ticket buyers just buy and then 'rent' them out to others at favorable prices on the basis that they can use them for pre set games or alternatively just allow the various SCs use them for all and sundry to go to games. Failing that they just well to whoever wants them via AISA or directly .That way they get the money back off the odd match goer and also accumulate away points for the best away fixtures they want to go to. Many just keep the ST in the hope that things will change for the better and then they ll go back. These price analyses of the tickets ignores all of this but greedy AFC dont. A very high proportion of those infernal Club level seats are bought and used like this. A friend of mine's Dad had two a few yrs back, probably still has. He used to go and take his 2 Chelsea fan mates with him. The two Chelsea fans used to go and keep quiet but just hoped they'd see a home defeat!. The rest of the time he d sell on ticket xchange or just sell the seats to individuals or businesses he wanted to flavour a deal or two with. a certain well known North London firm of accountants used to have them more often than not and none were Gunners fans. His money was always got back. All of this means the Club have a large raft of passive and barely interested people in that stadium every Match. I know people who own or have use of those Club level tickets and never so much as look out of the window at that pitch and have no intention of doing so. Its the 'being there' and 'being seen to be there' or 'being seen to to be able to be there or facilitate others being there that matters'. As for those private boxes, there are many who just use them to run their extra martial affairs from and theyre also used by a certain type of lady to generate ..... well, you know where thats going. This is fact. Believe me. Football, for large numbers of 'fans' who go there doesnt even register a ripple on their richter scales. They wouldnt know Ian Wright from Ian Ure and whats more couldnt give a fig. These are the types Arsenal Football Club are designed for, set up to serve and want to serve. The Clubs rules on Season ticket use fly in the face of all of this but as long as its kept under the radar its all OK. Occasionally theY make an eg of a season ticket holder and suspend them or cancel the ST. Thats usually when the owner accumulates a number of STs inc his own (and he might have 2 or 3 in a family clutch of them) to 'run' for other people and gets greedy selling the tickets on a match by match basis for the other owners at a profit either to Arsenal fans or on the black market. Its never been easier im told, allegedly, supposedly, probably and likely ha ha to get tickets of touts since they moved there.The ordinary chap and long time fan nowadays gets steamed up over Arsenal still, but this is a little picture of your Arsenal today. Are they worth it? Take them with a pinch of salt and use them when it suits you at the cheapest price, when youve nothing better to do is best in my view. AW or Kronkes wig shdt even be disrupting your days thought process for one wasted second.

  183. Gee

    Oct 19, 2014, 12:52 #59680

    The last two seasons we've spent big money superstar players Ozil and Sanchez. However the same problems still remain. Over the last 5 seasons we've all spoke about the same issues in our squad with many different players. The only constant is the manager who has now lost it at the top level, unfortunately. I knew the FA cup would not be a springboard for anything - just a random cup win. We are miles away from winning the league or CL, yet have oodles of cash available. It makes absolutely no sense anymore

  184. Torbay gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 12:46 #59679

    Marcus, in the proverbial nutshell. Nothing much is going to change at the club, until this current board lacking in any kind of football acumen depart. The question is what is it going to take for that to happen? Wonder if our club record for most draws in a season is under threat. Westlower?

  185. Angry & Frustrated

    Oct 19, 2014, 12:33 #59678

    @GBP Wow are you sure about reading that, £17 million? If true, then obviously we would not be competing at that level, and quite frankly I wouldn't want them too, as even the £8 million Wenger receives I feel is way to much. However I am sure their are managers out there e.g Klopp who are paid a fraction of what Wenger is currently being paid, who I am sure would get more out of these same players than he can, simply by having more than one solitary plan!

  186. Lee Bedford

    Oct 19, 2014, 12:23 #59677

    My biggest worry Kev, is the people upstairs! this is why he is still manager now, Unless it chnages upstairs then wenger has a job for life.....ahhhhhhhhhh

  187. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 12:18 #59675

    A and F - Not sure mate but if 'top' calibre means Mourinho, i recall he earns 17 Mill plus at Chelsea. Arsenal wont reach to such levels in my view.

  188. BADBOTTOM IN ATTENTION-SEEKING CAPITAL LETTERS

    Oct 19, 2014, 12:12 #59674

    What happens if the side wins their next trophy in 2017? Another new and undeserved contract for the manager?

  189. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Oct 19, 2014, 12:10 #59673

    Look if any if you want to see this old senile man at he's most sneering best go watch the post match bbc interview. He's face is a picture, he can't believe he's being challenged. Jacqui Oatley really put it on him. The question about who is to blame really piss him off big time lol. The man is not use to being questioned in a manner he dislikes is all kiss ass soft questions as was the case at this meeting with the shareholders. Folks we can't beat hull city at home now Loool. We our looking for late injury equalisers Loool. Wow what have we become. The middle of the park is as light weight as featherweights. The man is just an embarrassment now. WAKE UP AKBS!!!!! My dream would be for Usmanov to somehow buy out Kronke and than to sack Wenger. Both have to go for me.

  190. jeff wright

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:49 #59672

    GBP, spot on about Per, a decent CB would have prevented both of the Hull goals , old Per, with his wildly waving rotating arms , did a good imitation of a wind turbine with two broken propellers flapping about, when frantically appealing to the ref for assistance after Diame had effortlessly swatted Flim Flammy aside leaving the BFG once again exposed for his lack of pace and agility. This lack of agility was again exposed on Hull's second goal ,with the BFG struggling to get his feet off the ground after being caught ball watching , that is a cardinal sin for any defender and just school boy stuff. On the positive side Sanchez and Welbeck teamed up well for our second goal , and although much has been made of Fabregas' goal against 10 man Palace I thought the Welbeck goal was just as good. Wenger though has been a busted flush for years making bad calls on signings and with his boring brand of tippy tappy pass the parcel football and lack of any tactical nous ,especially regarding defending. His parsimonious policies that are designed to provide a profit for Stan, so as to justify the 8m a year wages that Stan pays him , are now like the proverbial chickens coming home to roost. A desperation attempt at new signings in January will be too little too late . Wenger will also, due to his own self created money saving lack of signings last summer get ripped off by having to pay more for the players than what they are worth,he will love that ! It really is just one big stinky poo mess that Wenger has got himself into. You couldn't make it up.

  191. Lord Froth

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:47 #59671

    @Badarse - it's so frustrating because we were only 7 point off the leader at the end of last season and we could all see that the problems that are likely to haunt us, other than the usual injury problems, were defence and lack of a quality DM. We're always so close. For Liverpool other than last season they are not usually that close. For Man Utd other than last season they are either winning it or top 2 or 3. Spurs and Everton etc are hit and miss and Chelsea and Man City are obvious contenders but we are always just so close. It's infuriating.

  192. kilkenny cat

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:45 #59670

    The shining light so far is Sanchez. The south Americans have this work ethic to match their talent. Messi,Suarez,Tevez,Aguero they all have it. Hunger and desire. We should be giving him the ball as much as possible. I dont blame the players for this patchy start,it is all down to Wenger. Not even a plan a now. Its so disjointed. The lack of defensive minded players and that big pressence is all down to him. Also we need an out and out goalscorer. Someone who loves scoring goals. See Aguero yesterday,already had 4 and still wanted more. Welbeck does try and i cant fault him at all. But not a natural goalscorer. Might get around 15 but not 20 plus.

  193. Angry & Frustrated

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:44 #59669

    @GBP You say Arsenal won't pay the going rate, yet unless someone can tell me differently, I think Wenger is the highest paid coach in the entire world, and if not certainly in the top three!

  194. Dan h

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:35 #59668

    Turgid passing for the sake of it all day long,sideways so easy to defend,so regular to now see from us.The goal they scored should of been disallowed for sure.We had 73 mins to react,we didn't. Alexis the only bright spark great goal and assist and you can see plays with genuine spirit.Well Ramsey back in training Monday came off the bench yesterday,kept that one quiet the old fox didn't he?Every fan of the Club I know,knew we needed a CM with presence and another CB.Instead a squad packed full of similar style midfield players who must be given Ray Wilkins DVD's to study.Crying out for a Vieira type?Ray Parlour would do nicely.

  195. Seven Kings Gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:35 #59667

    Spot on again Kev - what really amazes me is that people pay these stupid prices to have their intelligence insulted every fortnight! Sanchez, like many other players under Wenger the last 7 - 8 years, will want out when he realizes that the club are not set up to coach top class players into a top class team. The backroom team are not good enough because the manager who selects them wants people who are supine and controllable. I cannot watch Arsenal any more it is like watching X Factor, where pure hype papers over appalling performances. I wanted Mourinho a few years back when he was available, he is definitely not Arsenal but the friction he creates in his teams and staff, make playing any side managed by the charmless Portuguese "wind up" merchant a nightmare before during and after the game. Arsenal's style of play (if you can call it a style) will only end when the gates drop and the "Euro cash" ends. I hate what my team are turning into!

  196. John Abrehart

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:34 #59666

    As Southampton have been our feeder club for players (Walcott, Ox, Chambers) isn't it time we made a move for their manager?

  197. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:27 #59665

    Martyn - im not sure about that to be honest. I see Guardiola as the ideal Coach at indisputably big Clubs. He needs the best players to allow his formulas to work successfully. The creme de la creme players never have and probably never will gravitate to AFC, even when AW has gone. I feel we need a top marque, tactically astute Coach who will mix good players with strength. Few agree but Rafa Benitez would do well at Arsenal. The Club need a higher profile Coach admittedly but wont pay the going rate. RB is a man, slightly beneath the top tier but with drive and a lot to prove and who players like to play for. OK his game isnt expansive for the purists, but in my view as an older fan that's never bothered me. Respect yr post though and its a point well made.

  198. Exeter Gunner

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:27 #59664

    Who else has seen the long version of the MOTD interview? Wenger: 'We concede too many goals' Reporter: 'Do you understand the calls for a DM and CB?' Wenger: 'I understand everything' Then later... Wenger: 'It wasn't due to a lack of DM and CB' Reporter: 'But you said you concede too many goals.' Wenger: 'Other teams have bought many defenders and still concede goals'. So there you have it. Other teams have problems too, so why bother with ours. Apart from that, some good analysis by Kev and some good comments. Don't know if falling out of the top 4 would see Wenger go, unless the lack of CL made it feel pointless to him. If he wanted to carry on he could just make up the profit deficit by selling a couple of our 'star names'. Kroenke would be happy with AFC becoming a midtable club that make a profit that way. Fans not turning up would make a big difference as TV doesn't want empty stadiums on their cameras and the issues that have led to that would be highlighted by the media. It's not realistic to think that will happen however as AFC have such an enormous 'catchment area' (global) so can fill up that stadium with people there for the 'matchday experience', on pitch performance and result secondary - just for as many, support for Wenger has become decoupled from performances and results. They continue to support him for partly non-footballing reasons e.g. he's been there a long time, it would remind them that time is passing if he went, he's a different type of bloke to other managers etc. Once you bring in these sorts of reasons, there are then no circumstances under which they'd think he should go.

  199. Jim

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:21 #59663

    For me football is on it's last legs.Things in this world only have a set time before they're replaced by something that fits the bill for the time.In years to come people will say I can't believe people wasted so much time watching all that football sh-i-t which means nothing to us now as we all play 'ultimate sport' where there's no cheating or chance involved until something else comes along to replace that,just as we now think the Rome-ish games were mad.As far as Arsenal are concerned, they may not be at their best, yet teams still fear going toe to toe with them as I noticed spuds trying to outplay city yet never leaving their own half against us and even Chelsea uninterested in taking us on at football,so maybe other teams think more highly of us than we do and we shouldn't panic just yet and I think the team were on a loser all round yesterday as if we had tonked Hull 6-0 flat track bullies wouldn't have been far from the headlines.

  200. BADARSE

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:07 #59662

    Lord Froth, I take it that Liverpool, MU, et al fit the same bill as AFC, in that they have no fear of relegation, cannot win the league, and really have no tension from actually competing. Before the season began I nailed my colours up and for the second consecutive season thought/think CFC will be champions, I also said they and MC are the only two clubs likely to contest the title. Nothing has changed there then. We have not had the best of starts and some criticisms as to why, remain ominously constant, however what is actually surprising you and a group of others? One of our group at home expected a 2-1 home win-they weren't far off that guess, though it was a damaging difference. When people suffer, if they are immature, or weak-minded, they lash out and try to put the blame on someone else. It's a form of sublimation, Dad beat me, I'll beat my kids. It's a natural, but damning cycle. Who is responsible for your pain? AW? OK moan, whine, protest or do whatever, but beef up a bit and accept the angst as a part and parcel of life-your little slice of life. Me? I'm suffering too, but in a little more dignified fashion, and am not blaming the other posters on here for that anguish.

  201. Martyn

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:05 #59661

    I read Pep is likely to manage in England as his next career move. How liberating that would be if he came to Arsenal. Yestrday was dire with the exception of Alexis and Bellerin. The Ox is deteriorating under Wenger. A new manager would re-energise the players and give us all some hope for the future.

  202. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 11:05 #59660

    Westie - im afraid youre off key on the Flamini point. Maybe a foul yes, granted, but what it was in fact was Flamini being weak as pee water, which is what he is in fact. It was a bit of a pull but nothing a decent defensively minded midfielders shouldn't have been able to cope with. It should nt have stopped him doing his job and getting his body in and maybe a tackle. Instead he chose to fanny about appealing because he had been lightly touched. The whole series of events leading to the goal were comic book Arsenal defending when under any form of pressure. Flamini was journeyman standard in his first spell at the Club now hes a past it journeyman. An ability to rip sleeves of shirts and bark demonstratively at other other players, demanding them to do things he cant do himself doesn't a midfielder make. The defending there now makes the defending of the mid 60s actually look quite good by comparison. I say this knowing that the defending in football generally and especially in the PL is dire across the board. For Merter and Koschielny, substitute Ure and Brown. Nothing to pick between them all.

  203. Angry & Frustrated

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:59 #59659

    Hiccup I think you will find that Wenger & the board do have a "cunning plan" and it's been in action for the last seven or so years! As Wenger would put it serving sausages but charging caviar prices! I would argue with his analogy of sausages though, as to me it looks much more like tripe currently!

  204. GBP

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:51 #59658

    Cant add to that Kev. Spot on. Regarding Mertersacker - ive never rated him. The moment Hull scored their first summed him up. Lost the forward, too slow to reposition himself once he found him and he simply cannot jump. He looked like a lumbering ox as the forward nodded home. It was like watching a an old Ian Ure clip. On the other goal where he waved his arms about appealing instead of maybe even simply ripping up the forward and risking a pen if no other remedy was available, this is what he does when he knows hes been skinned i.e appeals with his arms to try and mask his snail paced inability as a defender. Alan Hansen before Merter came to this Country used to say he was the poorest CB hed even seen in a German shirt and he was right. He tempered his views a bit after Merter came over but only out of courtesy. All of this 'BFG' cult rubbish masks the truth about him and shows thet modern football fan wouldn't know a decent CB if they saw one.

  205. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:34 #59657

    I'm at the point where I can take not being able to mix it with the big boys. But when Hull City and Tottenham visit, and comfortably get a result, something is very wrong indeed. The problem seems to be a lack of midfield defensive cover. Hold on, that sounds familiar don't it.

  206. Rob

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:31 #59656

    For Gaz - You are right on the money with all of this - Bullseye :- Can't argue with any of that Kev. I think what we're going to see now though is because the 'lack of money to compete' excuse is no more our fans will be going big on 'it's the officials fault we can't compete now'. Truth is Wenger just isn't as good as he once was yet the simple fact is he's going absolutely nowhere until 2017. Kroenke has a lot to answer for and for me the easy ride he gets from Arsenal fans is a real source of irritation. We should all be doing a lot more to drive this man out of our Club and I think we all know other Clubs just wouldn't stand for it. Apathy really is the king at Arsenal these days...

  207. Mark T

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:29 #59655

    A brilliant report. Yesterday was just one more example of the insanity that has gripped our club over the last 7-8 years. As a team, we're simply not good enough to challenge for major honours. End of story. Are players like Mertesacker, Gibbs, Wilshere, Monreal and even Chamberlain really good enough? Would any of them get into the Chelsea team? The only positive in this already horrible season has been the prospect of Chambers becoming the new Tony Adams and Sanchez showing everyone that trying hard isn't a crime.

  208. tippytappynevershooty

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:24 #59654

    Why is everyone so unhappy? We can concentrate on winning the champions league now ****nurse, where are my happy pills???nurse!!!****

  209. Mike 'Mesut' Collins

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:24 #59653

    Not a bad analysis, Kev, but you omit the Ozil Factor in your assessments. If our dynamic Germanic playmaker had been out there yesterday - picking apart the Hull defence with his incisive and imaginative passes, bamboozling their midfield cover with his magical feints and darting runs, and overpowering them with his massive energy and unstinting commitment to our beloved Arsenal - then it would have all so, so different. O yes. Anyway, the nurse is calling now and I have to go back inside for my serum.

  210. Hiccup

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:17 #59652

    A&F. Nothing like Blackadder mate. They always had a 'cunning' plan, whereas I don't think we have a plan A never mind a plan B! As for who could replace wenger, give me Baldrick anyday. Someone mentioned the only way for change is if we drop out of the top 4. I agree. However, kroenke will only look for someone that can get us back in the top 4 and no more. We have let these parasites rubber stamp the fans with what is deemed success, it has been accepted by the fans, and now we are stuck with it for the foreseeable future. There is no light at the end if the tunnel.

  211. Tony Tadley

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:13 #59651

    @lee the problem seems to be that now there ground is so big it's full of post italia 90 and sky 92 fans. These fans just want the product and as long as it's comfortable and there is plenty of refreshment either side of half time then it's a great day out at "the footy" . It's almost as if the middle classes just enjoy roughing it at working mans game, but don't really know it's history. They can read all about it and watch the footage but they don't know how it felt in the 70s and 80s . The piss poor stadiums with no roof above the away end . Police herding you around like animals in pens that were dangerous, piss running down the concrete. Fans running around looking for trouble. Reading that back sounds horrendous and I'm glad it's no longer like that but these improvements had to be paid for and that priced many ordinary fan out. My first season ticket was £70 and that was only back in 1990 but even as a 17 year old it was well affordable, now as a 41 year old I'll probably never do a season again, just the odd game here and there . And there in lies the problem , too many of the 60000 don't go week in week out so don't really feel it and when it's going wrong don't have the passion to make a protest, they just give the ticket to someone else who's just happy to be there. Imagine if just half the ground started Wenger out chants on a weekly basis, it would be the start .....

  212. N4

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:12 #59650

    This club has turned into a factory in producing products (whether in this case are players or other things....) where everything is analised to make sure profits keep going up...! The board including Arsene are spin doctors and some of us believe their rubbish with full ignorant contentment! This club is finished a long time ago...probably the day the shareholders sold their shares to that yank! Gaz and DJCee 1000% agree with you.

  213. Lord Froth

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:06 #59649

    I was listening to the scores on the radio and when we went 1-2 behind I actually didn't care. A supporter since 1978 didn't care. What does that tell you. I know that we won't gain any ground on the top teams this season and I think we all know that we're treading water so what's the point? For a bottom team there's the tension of avoiding relegation. For a top team there's the tension of actually competing. Arsenal do neither and it's gutting. Deep down I suspect that none of us have anything but respect for Arsene Wenger for what he's done for the club but he needs to go but whilst he still makes money for the club Kroenke doesn't care about his on-field legacy. We've played narrow for years and got picked off by inferior teams and when we used wingers against Galatasary we tore them a new one but then revert to narrow through the middle. F**k me why can everyone but Wenger see this doesn't work and I rarely swear.

  214. Angry & Frustrated

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:04 #59648

    Same old same old, ok the Hull equalising goal should never have stood, with a shocking piece of refereeing, but that should not hide the fact we were woeful overall, barely testing their keepers. Remember Wenger talking about winning the title at the start of the season, well if he looks at the current table after only eight games played Chelsea have double the points we have and more importantly look like potential champions, whereas we currently look like mid table fodder. I could harp on and on about the mismanagement here, but what’s the point, so many have already highlighted the deficiency in this team with a lack of steel & leadership. Face it we are going nowhere but backwards under this stale worn out regime. The players are clearly as confused by Wenger as those of us having to endure this slow death by a thousand cuts. This is now becoming a comedy farce similar to Blackadder sketches, except none of us lifelong Gooners are laughing. The club died the day it moved home from Highbury, compounded by Stan coming on board, as well as the ousting of Dein, who was the only football minded board member with actual control and influence over Wenger. Without that we have seen the results, where one man thinks he is above criticism and allowed to keep to his philosophy despite clear evidence for years now that it doesn’t work. Not helped as he is still viewed as some kind of deity by his followers including the entire board, allowing a culture of a top 4 finish to somehow constitute success. After this showing even that supposed holy grail looks less likely, with our boring all too predictable single tactic, that everybody and his dog now knows about and also knows how to negate! Wenger you are now a fraud in my eyes, as who else in world football has a £8 million salary with clearly no plan B when things don’t work? Answer nobody!

  215. Westlower

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:02 #59647

    It's annoying to drop 2 points when the opposition only have 2 attempts on goal, one of which was obviously illegal. Jon Moss gave 4 penalties for the slightest of touches at Man City, yet Mr R East ignores a blatant tug back around Flamini's neck. How are these officials allowed to interpret the same rules in such a diverse way? Where are we now Mike Riley? Only offences in the box are punished & the same foul outside the box is ignored. All in the name of furthering the entertainment, getting the correct decision has become secondary. The second Hull goal was schoolboy defending by Arsenal. JW & Sanchez missed two good heading opportunities & Gibbs could have scored the winner in the dying seconds. Welbeck & Sanchez are developing into a good partnership. Still screaming out for a Diame type to replace Flamini. Welcome back Calum Chambers for next weeks games.

  216. KC

    Oct 19, 2014, 10:01 #59646

    @Lee - Mate I have a season ticket and feel its become a chore, its not enjoyable, I hate our board and owners with a passion their total lack of respect for the fans or should I say customers is appalling and Wenger has sold his soul to them. This club has become a business which I can handle but its a business where fourth is its holy grail. How sad was that interview on BBC last night so flawed so tired, the job is to much for him.

  217. Fozzy's mate

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:59 #59645

    The marginalisation of Gazidis as discussed below is interesting. The only CEO is history to be appointed by his subordinate. He is less and less visible as time progresses and his previous platitudes and politicking are exposed as hollow and disingenous. He is now almost invisible and it comes to something when those that previously berated him including me have some sympathy for him.

  218. BADARSE

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:51 #59644

    Deejaycee I am not being glib chum, this is a trying time for all, but I wanted to point something out to you, a flaw in your action. TV rules the game, not the boards managers, officials or committees. They pour almost unlimited resources into the game. It affects stadium naming rights, shirt sponsorship, playing kits, all merchandise, and creates a global market. Arsenal suffer slightly more than most as we reside in London, which is still, and for a long time hence will be the international capital of the world. We will always have high rollers visiting AFC-plus a big number of low rollers- all the while we have a name and a reputation for a style of football, albeit a style no longer supreme. By moving from the stadium to a TV screen you play into their hands. AFC and the TV companies would be happy if the team played to an empty gallery providing the TV revenues increased, and AFC were cut a suitably larger slice of the cake to compensate. Kroenke as most recognise, doesn't give a hoot about AFC, he is a business man, so he will only be a tad concerned if finances fall. Gazidis has been emasculated by the position and non-power he holds. A cause for rethinking the 'walking away' approach I think. Just a piece of reality to suck on. Bitter isn't it?

  219. KC

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:47 #59643

    Good post Kevin, At the start of the season I applauded the offensive signings but stated it will be in vain if the top quality def midfielder is not purchased. The defender situation is a joke. As much as I hate saying this the only way to get change is to not finish in the top four. The owner does not care about trophies it’s a business to him so Champions league money is success, it’s a vicious circle and real fans that want to challenge are left fuming. As for Jack that is part of a club with no discipline, the manager does not shout does not lay down the law does not drop players or pull them off when playing badly, how can the Ox stay on yesterday using stinker to describe his performance is very kind, his performance was pathetic. The defence has been a worry for 7 years now and must be down to the fact its not worked on and Wenger’s obsession that if we have the ball they can not hurt us so he works on possession. How come we are crap at corners both offensively and defensively because its ignored in training because its not how he wants to play. We are going backwards and the fact we have better players and yet there is no improvement shows Wenger’s time is over. Unfortunately the power he has means he answers to no one – Until we do not finish in the top four! Our league has three clubs that demand trophies Utd, City and Cfc, the Spuds Liverpool and AFC have boards that want Champions league football, so with a new stadium a fantastic fan base we are still not competing with the major three trophy winning clubs, a new owner and manager are required that demand trophy winning football.

  220. Mac no 9

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:46 #59642

    Even though Jack Wilshere seems to be playing better and Ozil is injured, Jack's influence on the team this season is as great as ever: Minutes played with Jack: 833mins. Goals for 6 Goals against 14. W1 D4 L5. Minutes played without Jack:316. Goals for 13 Goals against 2. W6 D2 L0. Why can't Arsene see this?

  221. TJ

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:42 #59641

    Great report as usual, Kev. I honestly felt liberated by the Chelsea defeat a couple of weeks back: I think we all knew we wouldn't compete for that match and indeed, we failed to get even a shot on target. I knew then that Wenger had taken us as far he could and after all those years of the BS 'relative spend' arguments, we are 11 points behind a team who have a lower wage bill but have a team that only Alexis could break in to. Since then I have become indifferent to what happens on the pitch under Wenger- we won't win the league or CL, and we are unlikely to retain the FA Cup. It is ridiculous to have major squad deficiencies- looking at just the last few goals we've conceded, they're all goals a proper DM could have stopped- Spurs Flamini gets outmuscled (like a true DM), Chelsea (Hazard goal) he just waltzes through the DM slot like there's no one there and yesterday a taller DM wouldn't have been as easily fouled, and could have intercepted the lone striker in the box for the second goal. Also CB, why put the pressure all on Chambers? We see time and again that you only as strong as your weakest link. That said, the coaching is too poor. Even with no holes in the team, attack is predictable and slow; and we can't even counterattack. Campbell was a breath of fresh air as he tried to subvert the usual patterns of play that seem to be drilled into the team. Defensively, well, Wenger doesn't do defence...We are too open, hardly press the ball and make basic errors too often. The best defensive football we played was when Steve Bould first joined and for the first few games we had all the trademarks of a GG defence. We didn't concede even one goal, but still created good chances! I fully believe Wenger got fed up of him being praised to high heaven (which Kevin and others reported) as all the tactical and strategic innovations disappeared from the home loss to Chelsea onwards. Even with an English core of fans in the squad, the players look unmotivated under Wenger, and sadly it won't be over until it crashes as the board have no conception of football and there will always be enough people happy to accept mediocrity that keep attending matches. Chelsea are storming ahead to a period of domestic hegemony under Mouriho, City are clicking more and more each year and the juggernaut United will continue to invest in world class stars to return to the top. We're left each year in a scrap for 4th, even with all the money that has now been spent. I used to care about that if it meant stopping Spurs but who cares now? Wenger won't change his ways and we will continue to stagnate.

  222. Lee

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:37 #59640

    @Tony Tadley I have just finished reading Clough's book and it struck me how similar he and Wenger are in terms of their approach and determination to control everything. What worries me the most is the total apathy that seems to have set in. I am overseas and so I only get to go to games when I am back in Blighty, but my dad is a long term season ticket holder and has now started to feel that going to the games is a chore, not something to feel excited about. If others feel the same, what can/should be done to get a change brought about?

  223. Don froth

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:36 #59639

    Mertesacker........more use with a high visibility coat on standing by the turnstiles checking for flares!

  224. Deejaycee17

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:33 #59638

    The only way we will ever be rid of this dictatorship is by voting with our feet! I for one attended my last game yesterday and although it will be painful and mean weekends watching from my sofa, it has to be the only way to get this clueless dinosaur out of our club! Thanks for the memories Arsene but it's clearly time to say adieu!!

  225. Cyril

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:30 #59637

    Too frustrating for words, we seem to be holding onto the ball for too long. How many times did we run into a wall and turn back. The midfield needs more muscle, it's really obvious to see. I sit very close to the action and it was pitiful to see us being outmuscled. As for DM position, we could of bought diame 3 years ago when Wenger had less money for 3 mill from west ham. He would of been perfect as he can do dm and go further forward. There are players out there , there are no excuses. Say what you like about time wasting but we should not of been in this position in the first place.

  226. Fozzy's mate

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:24 #59636

    Turgid tikka takka at its worst. 80% posession and minimal chances created. With such domination percentage football utilising width would have done the trick. Play the whistle also comes to mind. A solid defence however wouldve meant a regulation win. My overriding thought yesterday was like yours Kev in that it may well be a long and dull season. 2 wins in 8 and our title challenge over before it ever started. Still its OK because Kroenke still loves Arsene who is described by Gazidis as a giant of a manager.

  227. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:22 #59635

    He's not perfect but I'm sure Gazidis gets it and he appears to be the only hope for those of us who think Wenger has to go. Sadly he has no real power and there is a strong possibility that he walks before Wenger , which would be a disaster. Tactically we are so one dimensional but you only have to see the warm up to see how the game is going to go. It's five- a-side tactics with no heading allowed. Good players who are not given a chance by their manager.

  228. Gaz

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:18 #59634

    Can't argue with any of that Kev. I think what we're going to see now though is because the 'lack of money to compete' excuse is no more our fans will be going big on 'it's the officials fault we can't compete now'. Truth is Wenger just isn't as good as he once was yet the simple fact is he's going absolutely nowhere until 2017. Kroenke has a lot to answer for and for me the easy ride he gets from Arsenal fans is a real source of irritation. We should all be doing a lot more to drive this man out of our Club and I think we all know other Clubs just wouldn't stand for it. Apathy really is the king at Arsenal these days...

  229. Tony Tadley

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:17 #59633

    This is starting to resemble the end of Cloughies reign at Forest. A board too weak or unwilling to do what has to be done. Whilst the season won't end in relegation , when teams like Hull, Leicester and a managerless Crystal Palace become problem fixtures only mid table obscurity beckons and this isn't what we left Highbury for.

  230. BADARSE

    Oct 19, 2014, 9:14 #59632

    Cannot fault any part of the report or analysis Kevin. Thanks for such a clear appraisal in your writing.